Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. You are listening to live from the path. Thanks for hanging out. What? What are you guys doing? Now that you switched all the seats around, I got that crappy microphone. I'm not happy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry there's trouble. I fully didn't intend for there to be trouble around here. Stop being so whiny. Dang. She's talking to you. You're listening to live from the path. My name is Ben Foose. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. We have a lot going on on the show tonight. I don't know. What?

What? Now what? I didn't say anything. Mike has some reverb. Yeah, it's hip. Can you sing a little bit? If I could save time in a bottle. All right, you're out. All right, anyway. So quite a big show tonight. Lots of heavy stuff. I don't know. If you've eaten chocolate or done a lot of exercise, this might not be the show for you. There's going to be some heavy stuff going on tonight. We're going to talk about, we're coming off the Spirit Midwest Music Festival. Tons of stuff going on there. Lots to talk about. I want to digest that a little bit. And I don't know.

Maybe figure out if we felt like it did what we thought it would do for us. The festival, maybe. Well, what did we want it to do? I don't know. We're going to talk about that. It looked cool. That's really all I wanted. It did look pretty slick. So we'll talk a little bit about kind of decompress our tenure at the Spirit Midwest Music Festival. There was an incident at this festival where we had to toss some dudes from the booth. Yeah. And so we're going to talk a little bit about that. It's just the surface of something that, I don't know. Frankly, for people that are, I think you can get hung up on it. So I want to talk through it. I'm hung up on it. I'm glad we're talking about it. All right. I was not even aware of this. Okay. Yeah.

I'm so excited. We had to chuck somebody. And Pants will know. We had to chuck two people. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. We had to chuck a couple folks. Just kidding. I was feeling guilty that I had nothing to do with it. I should have booted them before you had to act. Because I'm sitting there going, I'm thinking it. And I thought, what I'm saying is probably not going to be pleasant. I should probably walk away. Sometimes Jesus isn't pleasant. It's the one minute Jesus filter. Sometimes he turns over tables and whips people. Yeah. So whatever. We'll talk about that. But we're also going to talk about things that could affect your witness.

I think the old standby is whatever causes your brother to stumble. But the real question is, what does cause your brother to stumble? And what if they stumble on weird things? And we're going to talk about what types of things legitimately affect your witness. And maybe what types of things. Where our line really is on how we behave and how that influences other people. So we're going to touch on that. We also got a final segment, Intern or Burn, with Danielle. This will be her last show for a while. So we're going to see if she, in turn, becomes great or burns consistently. Also, I think Spangler is going to drop by. And also, Supernaw was supposed to be in the studio tonight. We are going to see them. They're not going to make it this week, but we will see them next Monday. They're going to come in. They're from California. Make sure you check them out on Facebook. Just look for Supernaw. And you can like them and dig on some of their tunes. And we'll talk to them next week. Now, here's the thing.

I went and checked out their Facebook. And they have way more likes than us. We're severely lacking in the like department. I like us. Well, that's you and your five pseudonyms in the Facebook. You know, we should give away a free t-shirt for every like. Like, if you push the like button. Or like a baseball hat. Are you going to bankroll this? Okay, I don't know. That sounds pretty pricey. I can't even afford our shirts. They're like 25 bucks a piece. And that's at no profit. There is no profit margin of those shirts. I think we need to talk to Jared. He can get them a lot cheaper. Yeah. We could steal men's bathroom signs, paint them red. And then if you push the like button, you can get a red. You steal signs for Jesus.

Okay, I'm with you so far. These sound like fantastic ideas. I like it. Thank you. All right. Anyway, so we just got off of what was it? And I don't think I'm selling it short to say that it was an epic undertaking to try to put on. Oh, on our part. Yeah. To try to put on. No, no, no. On the part of the festival. Oh, no. The festival. Yes, indeed. I thought you were talking about it was epic to broadcast from the festival. And it's only epic if you're ill-equipped for it. I was quite impressed, really. It looked nice. It looked really nice.

It ended up looking quite legitimate. It did. It shocked the real radio guy that came by, and he was really jealous. Yeah, he was quite upset that we upstaged him. In fact, the real radio guy didn't have near the setup, but he had a popcorn machine. He had a wagon. But that was dance. Yeah. You're a little red rider. He did have a banner, which we kind of fell short on the banner. But we did have a pretty slick sign that we had the band signs. The TV was out. I don't know. Things look pretty good in there. It did. So anyway, we were broadcasting from the Spirit Midwest Music Festival. We broadcast on both Friday and Saturday. And basically, the setup was, is we tried to interview some of the bands that were out there. We got some footage from each of the stages. Tried to bring that in so people who weren't there could kind of get a gist for what was

going on and what some of these bands were like. I will throw it out there that we could not have pulled off the production that we did without our camera guys. Both Nathaniel and Jacob Carson just really worked something fierce out there. Yeah. They did. Even Friday in the rain. Oh, man. They got soaked. They did. They were terrible. I didn't go out at all. I granny stayed inside our booth area like I was wrangling things together and putting on a production. But really, I just… I better turn this knob here. We might have trouble. Better look at this. We got stiffed. We got stiffed on probably 60% of the bands that said they would show up for interviews. Even with the cool looking tit and everything, 60% didn't show.

Yeah. So, but I kind of expected that. Like we had run, our schedule was kind of in five minute increments. And frankly, there was no way we would have pulled it off, had all these people showing up like they were supposed to. So luckily, 60% stiffed us. But we got a lot of apologies. Maybe they heard our work and said, yeah. I'm not going to make that. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I'm busy. Of the bands that we had stopped by, I don't think I had one band stopped by that I didn't end up being a fan of after I left. Almost every band that we had stopped by had a heart for Christ. And they were good musicians, obviously good enough to be touring around or stopping by the festival. And I was totally impressed. Yeah. It was actually a very, very cool experience. Like I almost felt like I was going to regret it because we weren't going to be able to see the bands.

But we got to talk to the bands. Absolutely. Everyone in the crowd is like, oh, I just want to meet the band, blah, blah. We're like, I don't even want to see your show. Just come sit on our green couch. I'm going to tell you something about those press passes. This is a cool story. Did I tell you this? Yeah. So Danielle made us press passes, you know? And so I put this press pass on and I wore around all day. No one thought anything of it. You know, they're like just some goofball with a press pass. So about 930 at night, I go to talk to Southbound Faring. I needed to talk to them about something and they were in the band dorms. You know, they were in their building and they had the lady outside keeping watch. And so I roll up there as my usual self and I say, I need to talk to Southbound Faring. Are they in there? Yeah, they're in there. Who are you? I said, I'm Mike.

I need to, I just need to talk to him about something. She goes, I, you know, I can't really let you in. And I said, she goes, well, who are you again? I said, and I pulled up my press pass. I said, I'm Mike with Life on the Path. And she goes, oh, well, let me go ahead and go talk to him. I'm like, I see that impressive press press. You forgot to mention the light up sword, though. That was the best part. I don't know. She was holding the light ups. Like they sell those things that at night all the kids like to play with. She's holding that sword. Yeah, she kind of looked like she was defending the Ewok territory. And she lit it up. Like, who are you again? Lit it up. It was hilarious. I am the archangel Gabriel. It was quite the deal. Like, I just threw it out there as a Hail Mary thinking that maybe this might work.

And she totally hook, line, and sinkered. Oh, legitimate member of the press, eh? Come on in. And I go in there. And she goes, okay, go ahead and go on in. I go in there. And, you know, apparently one of them was not wearing much at all. And so I was ushered out of the room shortly to have some sweatpants put on or something. But it worked out well. I'm glad I walked slow. Those were the guys. I don't remember if you saw one of the photos that Dan posted on Facebook. It's Southbound Fearing. But that guy has got, I mean, a deep V-neck. It's almost to his belly button. This is a deep. I hope that wasn't the guy. You've got to be born super cool to pull that off. That's for certain. He had a big white guy fro. He's pretty cool looking.

I'm not. A big white guy fro. He had a big white guy fro and a real deep V-neck and his pants are tight. It's basically, it's everything I'm not. I'm balding. I wear long sleeves. My jeans are as baggy as possible. And, yeah, anyway. I can't look like that guy. The festival was cool. We met, I mean, just all kinds of people that I just normally would not have met. Yeah. And I couldn't even list off all the bands that we met that I thought. I mean, these are people who are super cool, in charge for Jesus. And I was just totally stoked to meet them. I was impressed. And it was kind of cool catching some of the folks that we knew in a venue that we normally didn't get met, like talking to Syndrome of Fire, talking to Jeff Arendale, you know, people that we've met before. Right. It was kind of cool to catch them in a different environment and be able to see them out there

actually playing as opposed to kind of rumbling in here at 10 o'clock, kind of regretting that they agreed to do it. Like, I got to do something in the morning. When can I leave? Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, I don't know. Overall, I thought the festival was really cool. They did a great job again. They got a lot of really cool talent in there. They kept it free. The inflatables were awesome. There was some good food in there. I tell you, me and Pants and the Carson fellas stayed out at the festival grounds, and I slept on the stage on the green couch that was out there. And the guy that was running the barbecue thing had some meat that he needed defrosted. So, basically, he just put it in a crock pot before he left for the night and then let it go. And so, I woke up at around, well, somebody woke me up at 3 o'clock, and I kept smelling this barbecue, and I thought, what is that deal? And then, sure enough, he's got it like wafting out of his joint the whole night.

And I was up from 3 o'clock on, and every time I walked by that thing, I mean, it was barbecue tantalizing, and it was a tease to me. We should get a camper next year. Yeah, we should. Yeah. We got to do something. I mean, what kind of legitimate member of the press sleeps homeless-style on the couch? So, here was the deal, is they kind of need security help. They have people wander the grounds and keep an eye on stuff. I slept on the couch because we had a lot of equipment out there, and I didn't want to put it away. And so, we thought, well, you better keep an eye on it, you know? Yeah. So, a lady wakes me up at 3 o'clock in the morning and goes, okay, well, the 3 o'clock security guy didn't show, so just let me know if you need anything. Thank you. So, I'm- Did she light up a sword? I'm on patrol. So, I've taken over the security rounds, and I'm not sure- they didn't really explain much to me, so I don't know how long this shift is supposed to be or what exactly I'm

supposed to do. So, I just got up and started wandering the festival grounds at 3 in the morning. Where's that meat? And so, I walked over. I walked over to the Hard Rock stage. I looked around. I tried to open some doors. I don't know what to do. So, I'm, like, tugging on doors, looking around things. You use a press pass and act like you're sliding it. Here's what I thought, is I thought, you know, I think nothing's going to happen. But what do all the movies show? The dunce security guy gets whooped upon. So, now I got the eagle eyes out. I'm like, I'm not going to get caught here. You're the reason nothing happened is because you didn't have a little portable television that you were watching when you were supposed to be doing your security gig reruns a taxi or whatever. Exactly. So, it's about 3.30 in the morning and I'm wandering the grounds and I wander by the tent stage and I see this shadowy figure kind of meandering about and I think, now is the

action. And I thought, I've got nothing on me. I don't have a pocket knife. I don't have a brick. I don't have nothing. It's just you and Jesus. It's me, Jesus, and this shadowy figure. I have a lighted sword. So, I start walking up to this thing to approach this figure. And I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to ask. What do I say? He's like, hey, what are you doing here? Hey, can I help you, friend? Like something. Do you go to the nice or do I get ready to kind of chop him in the legs? I'm not prepared for security detail. Knock him down first, then ask him. So, I get closer and it's Pants. Pants and the Carson fellas, there's couches and chairs over at the tent stage. So, they go sleep over there on these couches. That's way better thinking.

Pants, I didn't say why you were up. Pants claims he had to go to the bathroom. So, anyways, he's out there wandering around. He's out there wandering around. Pants, you Neanderthal. Here's the facility. So, I say, Pants, what are you doing? And he goes, this is what he tells me. He goes, I thought it was time to get up. It's three in the morning. And he's up for the rest of the day. He goes back and sits on the couch and just starts playing with his cell phone. And he's up for, like, all of the next day. I figured he'd have pneumonia after the night before. He sat for three hours in the pouring rain just sitting there watching the equipment. That's the thing. This festival revolved around Pants. Pants had all the cool stories and most of the cool experiences. Yeah, that's true. And, frankly, the Chuck and people had directly to do with Pants. It was a fantastic, fantastic time.

Well, here's the thing with Pants. So, he went back and he sat on the green couch. And it's, you know, what did I say? It's about 3.45 a.m. Okay? And so, I kind of walk in the grounds a little bit looking around. And I go back. And it's about 4.15. And I figure my shift's over. I don't know when it causes it. Everybody causes trouble between 1 and 3.30. Okay? I think 4.15. Nobody's causing trouble right now. The working man's up at 4.15. The hoodlums are in bed. So, I'd like to go to bed. But Pants is still sitting on this green couch. With no, like, I thought he would decide to lay down or something. And I said, well, I'll let him have the couch. I'll go sleep elsewhere.

But he's just sitting up looking at his phone. And, I mean, he must have been playing with his phone for 3 hours or whatever until we decided to go to the quick trip and get some chocolate milk. And so, like, I fell asleep sitting up next to him on the green couch. And I didn't get to lay back down or anything because Pants is absconded with it. And, like, it's normal. I just thought it was. Who gets up and thinks, oh, I thought it was time to get up. And then finds out that it's not time to get up. But then stays up anyway. Most people go, all right, man. Three more hours of sleep. A bonus score. Extra sleep, you think. Pants go, I already want it over here. I'm just going to stay up for now on. So, I've got an idea for next year. Okay. This solves a lot of those issues. Okay. All right.

We rent one of those really fancy RVs where the things slide out. Oh, yeah. And you have this big, huge living room. That becomes our studio. Oh, man. We set up our studio here. And we just roll it out there. And we set up. It's air-conditioned. Everybody wants to be interviewed in an air-conditioned RV. We're going to get a bunch of skeezes in there. A bunch of people who claim to be in bands that aren't actually in bands. Like the poetry man. We'll get sponsors so that they will pay for the RV. But, you know, we'll just have their stickers all over the place. We need sponsors anyway. Yeah. Nobody wants to sponsor us. I don't know why. We'll get Budweiser or something, you know. Budweiser.

At the Christian Midwest Festival. Come on over to the Bud tent. All right. So, here's the deal with pants. So, Pants was. And I came in. I don't know how long this had been going on. Okay. So, I walked over. And there's these two guys talking to pants. And by listening to him long enough, they're trying to heal him. They're trying to heal his leg, I think. If I caught it correctly. And so, Pants is kind of arguing with him about why he does not need the healing or whatever it is that they're trying to do. Because Pants has MS. He has multiple sclerosis. Okay. It's not a leg problem. And they're arguing with him. Right. No, Jesus doesn't want you to have this.

Right. And though Pants doesn't, his primary transportation is not generally a wheelchair. He brought a wheelchair to the event because there's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. So, he brought his wheelchair to the event so he'd had somewhere to sit, somewhere to roll about, that kind of thing. So, yeah. So, anyway, Pants was sitting there. And these guys were, I mean, hand-on-the-shoulder counselor style, you know. Yeah. Talking to him, leaning in, and, you know, trying to convince him that what he had had, that his disease was not from God. And that's right. That the sickness, if you are sick, is a sign of evil in your body as opposed to just being sick. And you can tell how they're, and the way they were positioned was, it's a good, it's a good thing to note. Because, like, one guy was standing kind of back, both hands on the shoulder, but had his hand up in the air as if he was trying to heal him without his agreement. And, like, I'm just going to shadow heal him or whatever back here. So, and it's, this is, it's weird because we've met these people before. I don't know if you guys remember, if anybody that watches me remembers, when we were on Des Moines Amplified, they were the, these were the same people that were, went on right before us. They were, they ran the I Believe in Miracles show. And I'll be honest, they, they, they gave me the willies then. And, but we, and we, and every time we went in there, we got, man, this is weird. We kind of want to talk through this.

But we couldn't because we had made some, part of our agreement at Des Moines Amplified is that we wouldn't say anything disparaging about other hosts on the platform. And that would certainly wouldn't have been our intention. Right. But I'm not sure, we wanted to make sure that we were staying kind of as far away from that as possible about what they think or what they believe or whatever. So, we didn't talk about it. But, but, but the concept, I think, of, of faith healing in general is something, I don't know, that I, that I get hung up on. I get hung up on. And here's, here is, I think is where my quandary is. I, I fully believe that God can and does heal people. And the power of prayer is just that. And, and, and God will choose to intercede in the world that he has created in that way. I completely believe that. On the opposite end of that spectrum, I could not have more distrust for, you know, your Benny Hinn type guys, the slain in the spirit people, you know, like you're smacking people on the head and they're falling over. Or people miraculous, like by the power of a guy or, or whatever, just thinking in his mind that people are healed and they're being healed. And so, these, these folks are of a, you know, they're of the grab, whatever place it is. Shake it. Yeah, give it a shake, make a bunch of noise. I watched them. Well, we'll get into this too. But, but like during the festival, I sat and watched them and because they had a tent and they bring people over to the tent. And then, you know, I was probably 200 foot away, but you know, they'd kind of say, you know, you could see him talking to him.

And then all of a sudden they do like a dice roll. Whammo, you know? Yeah. And, and, and the thing, and like I said, we'll get into this, but like the thing that really bothered me is there was like, there was a kid with spina bifida that they grabbed. Yeah, they're chasing people down. Like they grabbed a kid with, with, with spina bifida. They grabbed pants who has MS, a diagnosable medical neurological disease provided by the, the God of, of both love and science, you know? And, and, and, and people with like obvious physical ailments that have been diagnosed because they're, they have medical attachments on them. That shows that it's been looked into. Yeah. You know, and. I saw one child leaving them in tears, you know, and then the rest of the time, everybody's trying to console this child, a parent, like, man, if I was a parent and they came after my child, I wouldn't have gone well. Oh, I just. Well, so let's, I, I think there's a lot of comments here. We can talk about them specifically, but let's, let's answer the broader question. Uh, uh, uh, and Dan, the, the opening salvo is going to be for you. So, um, is, is, is faith healing, uh, legitimate biblical principle? Uh, I, I, I agree with what you said. A God can do whatever he wants. Okay. And, and I think that's the important thing to note.

It is God who does it and not people. There are very few times in scripture people. You have the, there's this error of thinking that every time anyone turned around in Bible times, there were miracles going on and healings going on and crazy stuff going on. If you read through most of the Bible, it wasn't crazy things going on. It's, it's history. It is the story of God and how God is working with his people. But there were times when he was about to do something big that it was introduced with periods of miracles where God called a specific person or maybe a specific group of people. And those people did things in order to show the public at large, this is something big. Uh, God's about doing, to do something huge, pay attention. You know, Moses had these crazy things happening because he was about, God was about to release the people of Israel to go to the promised land or to go on that journey, you know? And it was all about, okay, it's time. You know, it doesn't say a whole lot about the 500 year, 450 years prior. It's just that, well, they were in misery and they were making babies, you know? And, you know, there weren't miracles happening. And, you know, it wasn't like, oh, there's another miracle. Isn't that cool? So, when Moses popped on the scene, it was different. It was huge. Well, and that was specifically part of Moses' dialogue with God. When God was sending him to Pharaoh, Moses was like, you know, how are they going to know?

How are they going to know that I'm coming from God? And God specifically, you know, do these things so that they will know. Not do these things so that they will be impressed and get a tingly feeling and whatever. It's do these things so that they will know that you are sent from God and that you will believe and follow the message that I'm giving them. Beyond a doubt. Well, and look at what Moses saw in the first place was a burning bush that was on fire but wasn't being consumed. That was different. Yeah. It was enough to go, I've got to check this out. You know, it wasn't like, oh, there's another burning bush. God must be up to something. I mean, you know, it was crazy. When Jesus came, there were miracles and it was all about affirming who he was. You know, it was, and even the Pharisees, Sadducees at one point said, well, we know this guy is from God because no one can do these things unless they're from God. Or someone had said that. And so it was all about confirming the fact that this is a God thing happening. There was all kinds of people hopping around all over the place saying, I'm the Messiah. I'm the Messiah. You know, and it wasn't working. Yeah, just as we have today. You know, there's a lot of people that are claiming to be the second coming of Jesus living to Mexico.

Yeah. I mean, you know, and so this was like, no, this is the real deal. You know, when he speaks and tells the wind to be calm, the water stops. You know, when the dude with leprosy, it confronts, you know, meets Jesus, he leaves clean. Not everyone who had leprosy, you know, but particular people, Jesus picked out. You know, it was a thing. So that was confirmation of him. The apostles had these miraculous powers. You read through the book of Acts and like Peter could be walking down the street and his shadow would hit someone and like, you know, healings would take place. Well, that stopped. Okay. Now, it doesn't mean that God couldn't do it. God could do it today if he wanted to. But there's no record of scripture saying this is going to keep happening because this is cool. People will say, oh, this is we're still confirming God. God doesn't need it anymore. He's got the prophets. He's got he's got the scripture. He's got us. He's got the church in existence doing the church thing. So how does that tie into like first Corinthians 12 where they're talking about gifts of the of the spirit?

And they're and it basically says there are a variety of gifts, but the same spirit and there are a variety of service, but the same Lord to each is given the manifestation of the spirit for the common good. For one is given the spirit utterance of wisdom, another other, the utterance of knowledge, according to the same spirit, another faith by the same spirit to another gifts of healing by the one spirit to another, the working of miracles to another prophecy to another ability to distinguish between spirits, tongues, that kind of thing. So so so Paul's writing to the Corinthians and basically saying we all serve the same Lord and he's going to he's going to faction us out in the way that, you know, we're not all going to have the same spiritual gifts. And if the spiritual gift, you know, that's been kind of in question is the one of healing, which Paul addresses directly. So is that to say, I mean, are you saying that he is only talking to the Corinthians in that time period? That's a yeah, that's quite an issue of debate within the churches. That's why you have charismatic churches and non charismatic churches. And even in charismatic churches, there's different levels of of how far they take this, you know. And I go back to God can do whatever he wants. And and I I pray often for people for for God to heal them. And I've seen God heal people. I've never seen like, you know, someone's leg, you know, suddenly grow or some, you know, something like that. Not that he couldn't. God can do whatever he wants. But that goes back to it's not because I have that gift and have the authority to say I have decided your leg should grow. Well, right. So is that is that kind of what where we're getting at here is is is is the like my faith cannot heal you. Right. My faith can't heal Danielle. My faith can't heal pants. Right. My prayers to ask God if for for healing for pants, if God heeds those prayers and chooses to answer them, that's something different. But just by my faith in God does not give me the spiritual ability to heal people. Right. Because it's still it goes back to God is sovereign. We are not. That's my problem.

A lot of faith healers is they look at themselves as sovereign. They believed pants should be healed. And it was a problem. If pants isn't healed, then he has a problem. He doesn't have faith. Something's wrong or sin. Whatever. They come up with all kinds of excuses. But that's because they've declared themselves sovereign. Right. And it sounds all spiritual and everything, but they're not sovereign. I challenge any faith healer to go into the local children's hospital and clear the place out. If they truly have the gift of healing, they can do it. So why don't they? No, that's true. And I watched it. I watched it fail like five times. You know, but here's the thing is maybe they take maybe they'll take the same tact as, say, the end of the times guy. Remember when we had Steve Brooks in here and he said, if God has called you to do something, who am I to ignore him? So then the question remains is, if they feel led to do these things, is it not God leading them? Yeah, I would hesitate to answer this way because I don't want to put something I'm saying. Well, I'm not trying to paint them as they don't know God. That's not what I'm trying to say. But, you know, like this seems to come up in issues like this. But it can't be satanic.

Well, right. Well, it just seems to come up in issues like this where there's things that are that are are far are on the fringe of Christianity. People say God led me to do blank. And and and it doesn't seem to bounce biblically true. And you seem to be the only one. It just seems odd that that that group of folks that tend to subscribe to the things like the faith, healing, the tongues and the modern day prophecy, that kind of thing. That that phrasing is actually pretty consistent. It tends to be Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit led me to Holy Spirit led me to. How do you deny that? Well, that's the thing. People say that God is leading you to do things. Who am I to say? Well, no, he's not. I don't know what God's leading you to do. God may have great things for you. God may want you to be homeless. I don't know. But see, then then again, the Bible would encourage you to to check things out, to verify whether what's going on is biblically consistent. For example, one of the things that Dan said was a lot of times they're saying if certain things don't take, healings don't take is because of a lack of faith. Many of Jesus's healings, specifically healings, were people who didn't have faith.

Like, the reason for the miracles were to demonstrate truth to non-Christians, not Christians, right? Like, you do the miracles, so people say, you mentioned the Pharisees, Sadducees. Like, even his enemies could not deny the miracle that truly he has to be of God, right? And so, you know, if most of these miracles are taking place not in front of a friendly church crowd of folks that believe, but people that don't believe, casting out demons, for example, or the people that are demon-possessed, that is not a believer. Okay, but Jesus can cast the demons out, so it cannot be upon their faith that they were healed. They were healed in spite of their complete lack of faith. Right, they're healed by the power of Jesus, that's all. Some people were healed, you know, like, because of your belief, I healed, you know, the blind beggar was healed in that fashion. But, like, there are plenty of folks that were healed that had no faith at all and were still healed. And so it didn't have anything to do with the consistency of your faith. And if you look at how some of those, some of the healings go and kind of what your modern-day faith healing may look like compared to how Jesus does it, there's not a lot of similarities. Jesus always healed completely. A lot of times they'll say, you know, well, you'll heal partially and then you'll continue to work it out later. Like, or when you get home, it'll be healed. Like, that's not how Jesus or the apostles healed. There are certain things that have never been demonstrated from, like, a modern-day faith healing, like an amputation or risen from the dead. Jesus did both, ear cut off, replaced, fixed, right? And Lazarus, risen from the dead, both things that have not, you know, like, if someone says, I was blind, but now I can see something. Like, you couldn't really verify their blindness. They could just say they were blind. It tends to be, like, common general things like back ailments.

Yeah. I wasn't feeling right as a whole. Now I feel much better. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think I'm on, you know, I don't, I don't know. Like, I think when it boils down to a common point, it's that it really is. It's just God does what he wants. If God wants to heal somebody, he'll heal somebody. And it's totally up to him on whether it happens, whether it doesn't. And as soon as you take it into your possession that you're saying, I can heal you, or even I can help you get healed. Like, the only thing you can really say is, I can help you know Jesus. If Jesus wants to heal you, whatever, that's his deal. I can just help you know the guy that does things like that. As I said, see, God has such a bigger perspective than our puny, you know, all we think about is what's going on in my life right now. Man, I've got this hangnail. I really wish this hangnail wasn't here, and I wish God would heal it. And, you know, well, my life's changed. God's going, yeah, there's an eternity. You know, I'm more concerned. They need Jesus.

They don't need their hangnail fixed or whatever the ailment. I mean, it doesn't matter what the ailment is. But what concerns me, like in the situation we're talking about, that tells me that there's not necessarily a God thing, but it's an ego thing going on with these people, is that why would you combatively argue with a person who says, wow, I didn't get healed. Thanks for praying for me. You want to pray? Awesome. Pray for me. I'll take all the prayer I'll get. So they pray for him, and he isn't healed. And he's saying, you know, Pants is saying, hey, this has been a blessing. God gave me this as a blessing. And they're saying, oh, no, he didn't. You know, they're arguing with him. And it's like, I did not sense any God in there at all, in their attitude. No, that's what I finally had to ask him. You know, he really needed to go. Well, yeah, that's when they had to go, right? Because, and frankly, Pants handled it with much more Christian love than I had in my heart at the time. I was not happy. And as soon as I heard him say, you know, they said, you know, this is not a blessing. And I said, you don't know what God's blessing looks like.

I mean, it's, it's a God's blessing may look, may look, may look only health and wealth and right. Yeah, exactly. Is God's blessing, it's not the same to everybody, just like the spiritual gifts are not the same to everybody. You know, God's blessing. But I can tell you right now, my greatest blessing is that I lost my job two years ago. That was the greatest blessing God ever gave me. Boy, it sucked at the time. It took a lot of worldly crap away from me. But it's the greatest blessing I ever had. And, and, and, you know, you know, someone else is going to look at that and go, Jesus isn't working in that guy's life. Look at him. He's, I mean, tell me, tell me there's another textbook classic example of a Pharisee, you know, of, of a religious zealot, really, that, that looks, it says, well, you know, that, that the prosperity theology where, you know, if you're not living the high life, then you're not living for God because God blesses those who live for him. Yeah, and the question, what it boils down to is God uses those who want to be used. God uses those that turn their life over to him and says, Jesus, I want you to use me. And, and I'm sure you need people in high society, just like you need people in the homeless shelter. You know, I'll work wherever you want me to work. Yeah, I mean, like the, the, the thought that physical ailment or a lack of success in life is tired, is tied to a lack of faith is completely like biblically preposterous. Paul got the crap kicked out of him like multiple times. Yeah, I mean, oh, Paul lacks faith. That's why they're kicking the crap out of him. Or, or, they said the same thing of, uh, John, the, John, the Baptist.

Yeah. He got his head cut off. Yeah. Timothy had the stomach ailment, like whatever, nine, 10 out of the, of the, of the original apostles died in some sort of nasty manner for their faith or running away from it, for one example. But, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's like no biblical precedence at all, um, for, it's not even a prosperity gospel, but it's the thought that, that God owes us good health in the frail life on earth. And, and, and that's not a biblically sound thought. No, no. If God chooses to bless you in that manner, consider yourself lucky. But consider yourself in the same category of luck that he even recognizes who you are and offers you a gift of grace to come live with him after you die from here. You know, it's, it's like, it's like inheriting a million dollars from your grandpa and going, well, I wanted the soda in the fridge, grandpa. I can't believe you gave that to my cousin. You know? Thanks, thanks for dying on the cross for me. Thanks for giving everything. Thanks for becoming my sin. Thanks for coming back from the grave. That's really awesome. But man, can you heal this? Yeah.

By the way, one of my legs doesn't work if you didn't notice. I got a cough. You're not blessing me. You know, and that, you know, that's the thing. It may sound a little insensitive because obviously we're fairly healthy people sitting at a table, you know, but I mean, I look at, I look at Pants and I see a guy that has a true perspective on what Jesus does and how Jesus works. And I've known, Pants has been my friend for a long time and he got diagnosed with his MS when he was 18, right on his 18th birthday. And I've never been prouder to know a man that handles it the way he does. He truly does look at it as a blessing and he uses it as a blessing. And frankly, if you ask him about it and the way he explained it to the people was, look, it's allowed me a perspective that most people don't have. And that's the truth of it because most people would have taken the perspective of I have a disease. This sucks. I don't want to do anything. I'm going to hide in my house or find a support group, you know. And Pants uses that to talk to people about Jesus and live a life that he wouldn't have been down this avenue, you know, if he wouldn't have had the disease. He would not be in a situation he's in or have the perspective he has without it. Or to become angry at God or, you know, as a reaction. Exactly. I mean, you can learn a lot just from a guy like Pants. I mean, seriously, I learn a lot just from knowing him. And I don't know. Like, I don't know.

And to see him, to see those people talk to him like he doesn't know Jesus or there's something like that really irritates me. I think that's what made me mad. And, like, I don't know. There's plenty of people that I feel like are misguided in their faith. Whatever. I mean, that's just a perspective I have. I'll see him like I think you're missing something there. But you're not hurting anybody and whatever. Yeah. With it alone. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. But, I mean, to the extent that you're putting that on somebody, I feel like you're doing damage in that way as a person thing, not a Jesus thing. Like, you're not trying to help people. You're fulfilling something about you that is going after this, whether you realize it or not, I think that made me pretty mad. I think that's when we ultimately tossed him and said, get out. Well, yeah, it was that. And then, like I said, it was the kids. That was the kids, man. That just kills me.

You know, just the kids. They're just little kids, man. They have faith. They have faith. They have more faith than I got. You know what I'm saying? They have faith of a child. They know God, how they know God, and they don't know anything bad about God. And then you say God's going to heal you. And then you go, whammo. And then they're not healed. And then you go, well, you don't have enough faith in God. And they're like, well, who? This guy seems unfair. Where did this whammo come from, either? Like, Jesus is touching people. People are grabbing onto his coat. They're being healed. Prophets, like the shadow thing, right? Yeah. But they're doing this construing of the body and the screaming.

It's weird. I can hear it. I'm about to do it. So we were broadcasting, and we were talking to some band, and I can hear someone, like, yelling over there. And I'm like, what? Is that supposed to be some sort of physical removal of something out of the nostrils? Like, I could not. I just don't. I don't understand the biblical precedence for this, except for they see somebody else doing it. It was like, well, I better make a big production out of it. Well, and it was a deal. And this is kind of specific towards them, and I don't mean in an degrading way. But they demanded that we put it on the show, like on our live broadcast. They're like, you should broadcast this. We did this. We did this. You know, you should broadcast the healing. I'm like, I don't know. No, we're not going to do that. We're most certainly not doing that. Yeah.

And to usurp us, they went to the festival organizer and then brought them over and said, you need to tell those boys that they need to broadcast the healing. I'm like, are you kidding me? Is this Jesus? I can think of one example where Jesus said, you know, go, when he healed that one guy and then said, go back and tell the priest, right? Leprosy, if I'm thinking of the right one. Yeah. To be declared. Right. It's not because he wanted a flag risen and say, you know, this guy is great. He just said, you can't get back into the community until you go by the priest. Exactly. You have to do it. But everything, nothing else was like a big, I mean, he wasn't putting on a production like, here, here, everyone come around while I do this thing. Like, that's not, it just wasn't the deal. And it's just, this thing seems so people oriented. It seems so egotistical. It seems to completely lack humility. I don't know. You know who they did not chase after, I noticed. There was a group of three individuals, severely, profoundly mentally disabled. Like, one guy had a helmet on and everything to protect himself type of thing.

I never saw them go after them and pray. Is that a lack of faith? I mean, why can't God heal that if he can heal, you know? Yeah. Or had they, I don't know if they've been beaten down enough to just, I don't think they ever got calmed down, but. I don't see, it seems like such a weird position to be in, right? Because I don't ever want to look at someone else who claims that they're doing the work of Christ and say, you're not doing the work of Christ. You know what I'm saying? Like, but here's the thing, is I've, especially at the music festival, I've met a lot of people that love Jesus. And you could, you could see it in them. Like, you could talk to them and you could feel it. You could just feel that they love Jesus. They're happy in what they're doing. They're happy in the blessings God's provided them with. And they're just, I don't know, they've just got the spirit pouring out of them and everything that they do, you know? And then I get around people who claim that they're doing something for Jesus and I get it like a pit in my stomach. Well, they gave me the willies. And I just, I thought to myself, because it happened the first time that I met them. And I thought, this is very weird because I've prayed specifically on this. Like, Jesus, they creep me out. They creep me out.

And if I'm wrong or I'm heading the wrong way, stop me. I don't want to feel this way about somebody who's doing your work. I don't want to say bad things about people that you say good things about. And I don't want to do that. And that pit in my stomach never went away. And I just, I thought, that's enough for me. Like, that's just enough for me to know that Jesus is not going to lead me down a path that he can't sustain. And there's something weird going on here that every time these people even walk within 10 feet of me, I just get a weird pit in my stomach. And I thought, that's just, that's very odd. And that's enough for me. Yeah. I had to say, I mean, I actually was out of commission for, like, two or three hours. I think a combination of, like, those people gave me the willies and then I think I was dehydrated and overheated. But, like, the combination of things, like, we actually had to, we weren't broadcasting for an amount of time. And part of it was, like, I was physically anxious having, with that whole situation. And it's, I don't know, it was weird. It was just a weird deal. Well, it's odd to call somebody out at a Christian music festival, you know? Like, you think everybody's, I mean, because every other situation, it was a fantastic time, you know? We just kept meeting more and more people that loved Jesus and talking to them about Jesus and what they got going and tours coming up and how their show went. And they were happy.

They were fine. Everything was great. And then all of a sudden, weird people are here. You know, it's like, are we going to have some kind of Jesus battle at the Christian music festival? Like, that's not, I just don't want you doing whatever you're doing by this tent. And I felt bad because, like you were talking about them, they were wanting to come on the air. And I didn't want to feel like we were coming, like elitist, like, oh, our brand of Jesus is significantly better than them. And we will not have, it's important that we're on and that they're not on. Like, that wasn't the thing at all. And I don't know if that came across correctly or not. But, I mean, as small as our platform is, if we have the ability to filter out stuff that I can't verify or that I think may throw someone off in the wrong direction, we'll do that. I think we have a responsibility for the three people watching to not take it in. But, you know, they actually have a radio program. They broadcast on a different platform on Monday nights. They can talk about it. In fact, they were. They were talking about it tonight. I saw them. They hauled the people in. And those people looked like they brought morphine. I don't think they had any idea what they were doing in there.

But just the whole thing gives me. You know what I'd like to. I don't know. I'd just like to see somebody that. I don't know. Like, I love talking to people because I've talked to people that said I've been legitimately healed by Jesus. I've prayed. There's no reason for this cancer to be gone. We have people in our church that are alive today who wouldn't have been if we hadn't prayed. Yeah. What are you thinking? Well, see, I'm taking it all in right now because I don't know what I think. Oh. Well said. Yeah. I mean, I would. It's just Jesus. I mean, I don't know. These healers, they call themselves healers. I think that's all a human thing. I just don't understand why they would even get into it unless they think they're being called to, but I don't understand that either.

Well, they take it. They use that first Corinthians thing to show that, like, I mean, the apostles obviously were able to heal folks. And I think they don't see that there has been a ceasing to it. There is nothing for them biblically that says it is to stop. And that is a gift that they have. I don't want to put God in a box here, but I find it that if you have been led to have the spiritual gift of healing, that for some reason there's a band of 20 of them just in the Des Moines area when it's a very rare event. And it's been recorded only, you know, under 10 times in the New Testament in a span of, you know, 100 years. Well, that's the thing. There's a huge, there's a gang of them in Iowa. That's the thing. It's like three a day. It's very, very few. Yeah. There's very, very few. Even for Jesus, like, there were a good number in there. But, I mean, relative to the amount of people, he fed 5,000 and then 4,000, separate groups of people. One was Jewish, one was Gentiles. There's 9,000 people right there. Even if you take all his miracles, you're probably at 30 people, 30, 35 people, except there's one group of lepers that he took care of as a group, right? So relative to the 9,000 just in that one segment, that's not very many people. I mean, there are times when it, you know, it says that Jesus spent, you know, the days healing and doing miracles.

Undocumented miracles. Yeah, we don't know how many people. But still, he's a one-man miracle train. It's not like he's, there's not like there's 50 healers that he's in charge of and he's having them do it all at once. Like, he's the miracle man. I mean, okay, take the example of the woman who had been bleeding for, was it 12 or 18 years? I don't remember now. And it's a big crowd. It's so crowded that they're pushing her their way through and he doesn't even know. So she touches the bottom of his garment and he heals her through her faith, reaching out to Jesus to be healed, okay? And he turns around and is like, who touched me? Okay. How many other people did he just walk by and touch that didn't, he didn't heal? Yeah. You know, I mean, there's people, people there who had corns and, you know, bunions and missing limbs. Goiters, things of this nature. Lord Jesus, take this bunion from me. My burden of sin is accumulated on my toe. I mean, it's not like everywhere he went, like waves of people were suddenly healed from anything that was going on in their life. It always had a specific lesson, a specific thing going on. Even when Jesus was about to go to the cross, he looks out and he's like, I've done everything, you know, I've come to do.

There were still people that were physically needing healing. There was still sickness. There was still disease. There were still lepers. He didn't come to do that. It was part of it to verify what he came to do, which was die on the cross and give his eternal life. Because ultimately you can heal me of everything. Ultimately, I'm going to die. Yeah. And if I don't have Jesus, I don't care if I could see before. I don't care if I could walk or run or smile or whatever. I don't have eternity. Right. And if you have Jesus, whatever, take me now. Yeah, exactly. I'm ready. I think that's my, I think I was talking to you about that just not too long ago. But that's kind of my problem with not studying things enough in the Bible because I just, I don't know, I'm going to die someday and I get that. I love Jesus. He loves me and I'm not going to be here forever. So why do I need to know all the little things?

So like, I don't know. To combat the failures. Yeah. But I just don't understand why we'd waste our time like worrying about that. Why wouldn't you want to be doing other things that actually matter? But to them it matters. Well, it's, it's, well, I mean the same reasons that people were healed back in Jesus' time. I mean, if it was legitimate ministry, you could probably bring a lot of people to Christ who are suffering for mailmen, you know? Yeah. If it was legitimate ministry, and I'm still on the fence whether God uses people to do that nowadays or not. I don't want to say that he doesn't. I don't want to say that he does. I don't know. I don't know that. I haven't seen it firsthand. I can't say, you know, I don't know. God's got a million things going on. We can be pretty sure it's not creepy, though. Yeah. I can be pretty sure that. The whole point is to give God glory, and people go, oh, God.

Yes. If God's doing it, I mean, he's doing it for the same reasons he did it back then. It's to show who he is and that your faith is placed in the right place. You know, he is who he says he is, and he can do what he says he can do. Yeah. So, yeah, I think we're on the same stance here. Jesus obviously has the power to do whatever he wants, whether he uses people specifically. I think it can be bounced through a filter. I think it can bounce through a very easy filter, right? Like, if it gives me the willies, I pray on it, and I still get the willies, I'm pretty sure Jesus is not ignoring me. Well, and that actually was the low end of the gifts. Like, when Paul was describing the spiritual gifts, healing was kind of the lower tier under tongues and prophecy. It's like, that's all you got? Yeah. You know. Yeah, and both of those. Wait a minute, according to who is the low end? Just because he said it last? No, no, no. The way he described it, as one of the lesser gifts. What?

Yeah, he does. He says it's a lesser gift? What's the main gifts? I think prophecy. But then again, I mean, we have a completed scripture. It's that we're not getting, you know, prophecy today that adds to something that scripture doesn't otherwise cover. So, if prophecy doesn't exist, like modern day add to Bible prophecy, which I don't think it does. Yeah. You know, why do we think those other gifts are persistent? Well, even prophecy, if you look at it, 99% of the time, Old Testament and New, it wasn't foretelling some strange, you know, mysterious future. It was simply teaching the word of God. Here is the word of God to you. Blah, blah, blah. And you think about it, we're so used to just picking up a Bible. We have Bibles all over the place, you know. And we don't need a prophet. We don't need someone to prophesy because we know it. It's in print. It's everywhere. It's on our computers. It's in our phones.

They didn't have that. It hadn't been written yet. So, every small group, every gathering of people needed a prophet to prophesy and say, well, here's what God's saying to us. Here's our instructions from God. That was a big time. Maybe overseas. It's needed right now. God could do what he wants. But it's really not a necessary thing. Other than, like, if you consider, like, teaching and preaching and prophecy, then we'll call that. Well, there's a definition thing, like, wherever you put it in the box. But that's the real danger. With things like, I think, ultimately, this is where we need to be careful. I think we're pretty much solid on, you don't put God in a box. God's going to do what he wants. As long as it's not explicitly forbidden in the Bible, I'm going to leave it open that God could do it. Sure. If he wants to. But on the other side of that, it's being careful with people who are doing things that are not biblically consistent and that do have the potential to, like, you might, people use the phrases like slain in spirit, spoke prophecy. In my life. Things like that.

We're like, if you think about what they're saying, ultimately, they're saying, like, to really prophesy, prophesy, I mean, you're saying I have to add to what God has already provided. I have to provide additional information or clarification that God didn't see fit to do in the Bible. To me, to this small group of people in this small area of the earth that no one else will benefit from, but it's important that you listen to that. Like, they're not going to explain it that way, but ultimately, that is a perspective that they're coming from, whether they realize it or not. And that's obviously biblically inconsistent. And so it's not, that doesn't mean that those guys still can't be proper Christians, but something is off there. Well, there's something odd that it's being trumped up like it is. Like, I don't prophecy when I pray on something and come back with, you know, I think God's pretty solid on this direction. You know, I prayed on it. Here's what I got. Let's do this. I don't call that a prophecy. You know, I just call it a prayer, and God answers it. That's right. It's inflated to make it look like something that it's not. Maybe that's the issue. I'm not important that I receive prophecies. I just receive answers from the God that loves me, you know? Yeah. Like, that's not a prophecy. That's just me asking a question and God going, I see where you're struggling here.

Let's do this instead. Yeah. So, yeah, I think we're on the same page here. I think everything looks on the up and up. God be the glory, right? If it's not glorifying God, then it's, obviously, it's not God. Well, and I think as long as we, again, you don't put God in a box, but you verify the stuff and make sure whatever's going on is biblically consistent. He will never tell you to do something that violates Scripture. Right. I've often heard people say, well, God really wants me to have this divorce. No, he doesn't. No, no. Or he really wants me to have this affair. No, he doesn't. See, and I tell you, that just goes right back to you cannot trust people when they say that the Lord is leading them to do things, because they say that for everything. Seriously, God is telling me to have this affair? That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Was that a real example, Dan? Yes, I've had people say that.

Oh, come on. God wants me to be happy, and I'm miserable in my marriage, but this person makes me happy. God wants me to have this affair. I'm prophesying. Prophesy. God would never lead me astray. I foresee there's an idiot somewhere in this world. I found him. He's right next to me, Jesus. Which is the verse that says? Grab him. Where is the verse that says God wants us to be happy? Let me do a quick search of the Bible and happy. Let's see. Search. Give us joy. Bible. That's different. That's very different. Take happy. What's that one by Thomas?

That's why I didn't make it. It had happiness. Okay. The English word happy does show up 13 times. Leah said she was happy because she got married. That's great. Here's someone who's happy. Happy are you men? Yeah, it doesn't ever say God wants me to be happy. Not happening. All right. You're listening live from the path. If you hung on this long, you've just enjoyed a lengthy discussion on faith healing. I'm for God healing people. People that don't seem godly aren't doing for godly reasons. Give me the willies. I think that's basically the summation of our particular discussion. It's the willies. Definitely. Give me the willies. So we're going to take a quick break.

I'm going to let you see. So we took some live video at the, of course it was live, home bears, amateur. We had them replay. We have a clip of Jess Anderson from the Spirit Midwest Music Festival. Do the happening camera work of the Carson Boys. I'm going to let you enjoy that. And then we're going to come back. We've still got tons of stuff going on in the second hour. We're going to talk whether a dirty car can affect your witness. We're going to do our final round of Intern of Burn and check in with a little deer live from the path. You're listening to Live from the Path on livefromthepath.org. And we're back. You're listening to Live from the Path on livefromthepath.org. Oh, man. Anyway, we're coming off around. That was Jess Anderson from the Spirit Midwest Music Festival. Who we missed our interview with her due to technical difficulties. I was so disappointed at that. Here's the deal. As we were getting beat up with technical problems, like legitimate technical problems, our computer dumped three times with the old blue screen of death.

And then the soundboard started acting up. Anyway, they weren't normal problems that were easily fixed. Like we ran into some legitimate computer and technical issues. But we got ourselves up and going. I was sad to have missed Jess and Jordan. Yeah. Because we haven't seen them for a while. I'll see her this weekend. We could Skype in. They're going to come by. They're going to come back in September. Here's the deal. Her CD is actually coming out. Finally coming out. Did you see? She got a really good review on her Firefly signal. Yes. A single? Yes. And you can pre-order that. Go to our YouTube.

Go to the Life in the Path YouTube channel. And check out the video I just showed from the Spirit of My Dust Music Festival. And there's a link on there that you can pre-order her album. It's only $8. It's like $7.99. And you can get it pre-ordered and get it right when it comes out. And then right after it comes out, within a week or two, we're going to have them. And we're going to have a chance to talk to them and kind of see how things are going. There's a lot of cool stuff going on in their world. I believe that sales will skyrocket after they're on Life in the Path again. We are still the highest Jess Anderson video on the YouTube. It's our clips from when she was in. It was just in January. Didn't it seem like forever ago? Wow. The first time we met them was late January. It wasn't our last show, but it was the show before that. The show before our last show at Des Moines Amplified. And that's when they were in studio. It was this year. I don't know.

Time fly. When you're having fun. Time flies on. All right. So welcome back to Life in the Path. Still lots to come from here in this second hour. Let's go ahead and see where Danielle sits. So Danielle has taken two rounds of internal burn. And if I remember correctly, he has burned both times. Yes? No. Yes. At least got slightly… Toasted. You got incinerated on the first one. You may have done better on the second one, but the first one was not a classic showing. So this is our last round of internal burn with Danielle. She'll be heading back to school. So let's see how she does. Dan, you ready? Yes.

Now, this is going to be high pressure. Although, it's multiple choice, okay? And it's a quote. It's part of a scripture verse. And all you got to do is… Well, I have the specific verses here. We'll see. You know, I think if you tell me the book it's in, that'll probably be close enough. Hey, Dan, you're going to have to get that paper out the way to the camera. So… Amateur. So anyway, as I'm thinking here is… Okay, number one. The quote is… Now, some of these are King James-ish. At least this one is. Unto a land that I will show thee is the quote. Now, wait a minute. Can I just guess the testament? Which testament it's in? No.

Is that… No. Not enough? Unto a land that I will show thee. Now, see, here's how you don't have to know every Bible verse that… Hey. Oh, I thought you were doing a search. You're chatting. You don't have to know… Just in basic everyday life, here's some help for you. You don't have to know every single Bible verse memorized, although that'd be really cool. But if you can categorize it into chunks of Old Testament, New Testament, that's a good start. Is this a history? Is this a prophet? Is this a poem? Is it a… You know, that type of thing. And you can start narrowing it down. Then you can do pretty well. Unto a land that I will show thee. It's either Exodus, chapter 12, Genesis, chapter 12, Matthew, I'll just say the book, or Philippians.

Exodus, Genesis, Matthew, or Philippians? Exodus. Are you guessing? Come on. You're just kind of… You can do it. Oh, I wasn't… No. Are we going to answer these as we go or do them all at the end? We'll answer them as we go. So, everyone, that'd be easier. Yeah, yeah. Let's do that. Troy, where are you at on this? I say B, Genesis. I know Exodus is all about the Israelites leaving, or whoever it is. I'm sorry. Leaving Egypt and then going to the promised land. But I don't know if that's promised to the… I don't know if that's before they actually start the Exodus or not. So…

I'm going to say the tale part of Genesis has to do with Joseph. And I believe the… After Joseph dies is where the Exodus starts with the Israelites being enslaved. Is that… Was it the tale part of Genesis? It was 12. Genesis 12. Oh, okay. Could be Abraham. I'm going to go with A. Genesis. A is Exodus. B is Genesis. Oh, shoot. I'll go with B, Genesis. C is Matthew. D is Philippians. Daniel? What did you say? I'm going to go with Exodus. I said Exodus.

She said Exodus. Okay. The correct answer is Genesis. It was God's original promise to Abraham. Dang it. Abraham. Oh. I get points for saving Abraham. Leave your dad. Leave your family. Go to a land that I will show you. I don't care. He did say land I will show you many times. It's the same dude. Pants on the path. It says B. Very good. Oh, read it again. I hope they got that. All right. We'll go to the next one.

That's one for me. Number two. And I could potentially pronounce this incorrectly. Many, many, tickle, parson. I don't even know what you're saying to me. M-E-N-E. It's many, many, tickle, t-e-k-e-l, parson. Is this a name? It's a line. It's a scripture. It's in this Bible. Okay. It's either in Psalm, Nehemiah, Daniel, or 1 Kings. Those are like the most unread books ever. Yeah, and I don't understand the question still. Many, many, tickle, parson. And what were the options again? A is Psalm, B is Nehemiah, C is Daniel, D, 1 Kings. Okay, Daniel, you're first. Do you want me to give you a hint? I'll give you a hint after.

Is this supposed to make sense to me? Yes. If you've read the book, it'll be like, oh, yeah, I remember that. I guess I haven't read it. Mike, what are you doing? Are you looking it up? I'm writing it. My answer's down. Man, you're a saucy buddy. Can I see this word spelled out? Say it again. These people, well, see, I'm watching the chat and they say Daniel. I just put the computer lid down. I don't want to cheat at all, but I want to go with my support and say Daniel. Mike? Mike, I'm going, I'm with Randy. I'm doubling up on Daniel. Spanglinger? I was going to say Nehemiah. Disaster. I don't want to cheat because I feel like that's probably the right answer, but that wasn't my first thought.

Only a fool doesn't go with Daniel. I originally thought it was first case. And I don't want to cheat off of Randy. The correct answer is Daniel. Yes. And as I recall, the setting is they're having a big party and this hand appears and writes these words on the wall. Oh. The writing on the wall. See, I read things and I don't remember them. I remember ideas. Wait, wait, wait. I don't know. It was a warning. Oh, by the way, you're toast. To Nebuchadnezzar? To Nebuchadnezzar? To Nebuchadnezzar. It was a different thing, I believe, at the time. Darius? Where am I at? It's one of those guys in between.

I'm thinking Nebuchadnezzar. As I recall. All right, number three. Keep it going. All right. So, I got one. I'm going to give you a half. All right. Fine. All right. Now, everybody in this room should get this. Okay. Uh-oh. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Is a major verse. Okay? All right. A, Deuteronomy. B, 1 Timothy. C, Jeremiah. D, Genesis.

What was the? Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God. Excuse me. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord is one. The Lord is one? One. W-O-N or O-N-E? Just to clarify. Uh, O-N-E. Okay. Deuteronomy, 1 Timothy, Jeremiah, Genesis. Deuteronomy. Daniel has to guess first. She's the intern. Deuteronomy. Say him again. Deuteronomy, 1 Timothy, Jeremiah, Genesis. This is the slowest game show ever. Yeah, no kidding. The Hudson's really put the brakes on these games.

Let's pick it up. This is a, this is an educational game. I, oh, Deuteronomy for real. Ben. So, I don't know. Deuteronomy. The Engeldinger. I thought Jeremiah. Jeremiah for Engeldinger. It is Deuteronomy. It is part of the law. It's like the main, I can't remember what it's called. The, the, the shit. Are you an LTG? Get it in LTG. Jeremiah. Deuteronomy. Never heard that in my life. Okay. It's obviously in there. Now, think of the story.

You'll think of the verse. You'll think of where it's at. Am I my brother's keeper? Genesis. Exodus. Luke. Philippians. Daniel. Am I my brother's keeper? What were the last two? Luke. Philippians. Genesis. Exodus. Luke. Philippians. I say Luke. Okay, I got it. Intern says Luke. What? Say you?

I got it, JC. Mike. Luke. Spangler. Genesis. Genesis. Okay, let's pretend you both give a sacrifice to God, and God's pleased with one and not the other, and then you kill your brother, and I'm Cain. Cain and Abel. Am I my brother's keeper? I wasn't thinking actual brother. I was thinking brother in Christ. I thought Luke was rehashing the story. A retelling. Yeah. We're halfway. Cain and Abel, fellas. I was down in the burning ring of fire. It makes sense now. I went down, down, down. It's time to pick up a children's Bible.

Mike Foose. It's getting higher. All right, Dan, you're up. The earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it. Genesis, Isaiah, Matthew, Psalm. Ben, I can't start. The intern's got to start. Then you. Okay. I'm going to say Matthew. Matthew for intern. Ben, the intern says Matthew. What? Say you. Genesis. I was going to go with that. I go with Genesis. I'm with Matthew. Yeah. The earth is the Lord's and everything is in it. It's from the Psalm Alive, 1984.

Oh. Psalm. Psalm Alive. I haven't gotten to the Psalms yet. I believe that's Psalm Alive 2 was the Muranatha album. I'm in Judges. That I listen to in my Bible college. All right. Okay. Number six out of ten. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord. Yeah. Joshua. Ruth. Micah. Joshua. Axe. One point. I think Danielle knows this one. Intern says Joshua. Say you.

Micah. Spanglinger. Joshua. It's Joshua. Her confidence is going to make. All right. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Can you think of where that is? New Testament. Old Testament. Is there only one book in the New Testament is the options? Romans. Psalm. Matthew. Isaiah. Oh, boy. Okay. Say it again. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Maybe you often hear it blessed. Psalm.

Did you say that was an option? Intern says. Romans. Psalm. Matthew. Isaiah. Sure. Intern says Psalms. What? Say you. Psalms. Mike. Mike. I don't know. I was going to. Is it Roman? Matthew. Oh. Matthew. Matthew. Sherman on the Mount.

Matthew. Jesus said it. One of the Beatitudes. The Lord Jesus. I am not good at that. Not one of the minor prophets. Now, I want you to know, out of a quiz of 20, I took out the 10 hard ones. We've got some work on the path. I've read Matthew. That's like, have you ever tried playing the game, saying a quote and telling the movie it came from? That's almost like, it's not the same, but I'm so bad at that. Hopefully, it's not comparable. That format, I'm really bad at. Ask me about Air Force. I know that one. Now, this will be tricky, okay? Because I've got to use actual chapters. Okay. Look, the Lamb of God. Look, the Lamb of God.

I got it. John 1, 1 Samuel 18, Mark 2, Mark 3. Intern. The B. B option. Samuel. 1 Samuel. Intern says, B option. What say you? Where do you go to college? Okay, actually, can I really think about it now? Not after Dan has mocked you. That implies that your answer is not correct. You're right. I'll stay with it then. Spanglinger. I'm already burned. I say, I'll go with A. Which was? John 1, 1 Samuel 18, Mark 2, Mark 3. I'm going to say, John the Baptizer said it, but I'm not sure where.

I'm going to go, John starts right out with John the Baptizer, so I'm going to hit a, I'm going to go with, I'm with John 1. I'm in Mark 2. Mark 3. It is John 1. Yes. Who would the Lamb of God be, surely, showing up in Samuel? John the Baptizer. I just did that because of Mike's head nods. I didn't actually think about it. Mike rocks John the Baptizer. Number 9. No, number 9. Okay. You must be born again. John, Luke, Ephesians, 1 John. That could be any one of those. That's why they're often. Next. You must be born again. You must be born again.

John. John. Luke. It could be Luke. Ephesians, 1 John. This is a little tricky. Oh. Do you remember the story of what context this has said? There's no need to trump up your Bible knowledge. You know it or you don't. Let's have it. No, I'm just trying to think. Daniel Hudson. Nah, John. You're out. Ben. Yeah. Ephesians. I'm also Ephesians. Bangalanger. That's a second option.

Come on. I really don't want to bandwagon with you guys, but Ephesians. He's on the bandwagon. The intern is correct. Yeah. See? Jesus is talking to a man named Nicodemus. Oh, right. Yes. The coward Nicodemus. Nicodemus came at night. He is cowardly. He snuck in at night. I should love that story. What is this, born again? How did you possibly get back inside your mother? I was thinking when Melchizedek said it. He was born again. Nicodemus is a weasel. I mean, he came around, but go ahead. I believe, how many does the intern have correct?

Two and a half. Three and a half. Three and a half. Woo! I'm doing better than I thought. This is your last chance to redeem yourself an entire summer of learning. Anyone who does not get this will be immediately banned from the broadcast booth. I hate it when you say things like that. Oh, here we go. Forever. Here we go. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Exodus. Genesis. Matthew. Revelation. John the Baptizer. Could be Revelation, but I'll go Genesis. Three point. That's a bonus. Genesis.

We're six points. Genesis for me. Yeah, we're six. All right. Do you have any guess? Yeah, we're in. Yeah, we're Genesis. Okay, cool. Genesis 1-1. All right. So here's the tally. Mike, I don't know how many you got. I've been keeping very good tally. It was at least nine. I got like three. Danielle got four and a half. Okay. Spangler rocked a five. How? Oh, that's because he could go after me. It's true.

I got seven. Mike, I'm going to give you a four. I had eight at least. Mike had maybe. I'm probably the winner of this game. All right. There it is. That is a, that's a burn. I'm so mad at these games. That's a burn. I can't believe you misquoted Jesus. You've got to know the Jesus ones. The rest of them, I mean, come on. They can come and go. It's in red print. There was a hip gospel band called the Beatitudes in 1984, just when Dan was around. Oh, so the Beatles. All right. So you've been listening live from the past. That was Intern of Burn. The intern has another two semesters to come back and really improve upon them scores.

Is this when you get all those Bible classes in? Actually, yes. I did a lot of, I did a lot of gin ed. I did a lot of singing. I thought you'd get the Psalms one. Yeah. All right. You're just the Lord's and everything. No one else was alive during that time, Dan. You know why? Because they did stuff like that. The Psalms was alive. Everybody abandoned it. The songs are okay, but I can't dance like that anymore. It's got to be on YouTube somewhere. Where's the baby? Until, until a young freshman named Richard Simmons came by and he goes, yeah, that is excellent. All right. So here's a question. The impact. This is a question submitted by Mama Foose.

So she came to the Spirit Midwest Festival and checked out our, we did a talk at the Truth Talk stage. Me, Mike, and Dan did. Oh, yeah, yeah. This little, to a record crowd. They were busting. They were. Steve Dace was there and had a slightly larger crowd, but not much larger. It wasn't that big. Anyway, so we did well at this Truth Talk stage. So we did a presentation on kind of, we did our show or in effect what our show would look like for half an hour. And then we fielded questions. That was the best part. Oh, it was also a disaster. So anyway. Made some great pictures, though, for our Facebook page. It did. It did. We looked very professional. There was some nice lattice behind us and everything. Yeah, yeah. So, but Mom was there and she said, I have a question.

And her question was, the impact of certain things on your witness. And her specific example was money. Like, can you be wealthy and have an effective witness? And generally, when you ask a question like that, most of the time. I'd like to find out. Let's give this a go. Most of the time, the return, the biblical return response is going to fall back on the causing your brother to stumble. Like, are you doing something that is otherwise causing your brother to stumble? Or, frankly, are you living biblically? Those are the two questions. So, I think we should be able to answer the money question. But then, on the causing your brother to stumble, I think maybe my question is around, I think anything can cause somebody to stumble. If you want to stumble, you're going to find something. Here's what I thought was. It's like if you have a wealthy person who's trying to witness and, like, they're living a lifestyle that would make it seem, even from a simple faith perspective, that money is their God, not God is their God. Like, you can tell by that. That's something you tend to tell by their actions. People don't come out and say, hey, by the way, I worship money. God's great and everything, but I worship money. And people in big poverty can have a bigger issue with money than people in wealth. Correct.

Correct. For lack of it. Right? Worshiping the want, the desire to get it as opposed to the seeking after, seeking first the kingdom. Right? Yeah. So, you know, maybe the money thing sticks out as something you can identify by action. But I guess I had a thought of a guy. Let's say you were hanging out at the gas station. Some guy comes up to you and he starts talking to you about Christ or whatever. And you feel like, okay, yeah, yeah. He started, it's effective. He's an effective witness for Christ. And then you see him go back into his car and he's in, like, a 1986 Pinto. And you look at, you kind of see in the windows and there's, like, fried chicken on the seat and old clothes and, like, a mongrel cat living in the back, full down seat so he can get to and from his litter box, which is in the hatchback. All right. That could possibly cause you to discount what that guy just said because you think, that guy, that guy's a slob. And there's something going on with his life that I was really hooked on this Jesus stuff, but maybe I don't trust him so much because he lives in total filth. Is that a legitimate cause your brother to stumble thing to be concerned about? Yes. Well, you don't have to be in poverty and be disgusting.

Yes. You still take care of yourself. That's not the picture that he painted. Yeah. I'm telling you, a guy gives a legitimate witness for Christ, faith in Jesus, shares his life, Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and then gets into a dirty pinto with a mongrel cat and fried chicken. My first church, first one I preached at, I came after a gentleman who had been there, and all I had to do was just show up and take a bath, and people were impressed. When we first got married, we moved into the parsonage. The parsonage, the stories we heard, you could smell from throughout the neighborhood between the animals and the animal residue that hung around in the house. They had to pretty much tear the whole house apart, and they took dumpsters full to the landfill to clean up. And people in the neighborhood came in and thanked us for moving there. I didn't know what they were talking about. And so you can be so disgusting that you lose your credibility. I mean, that was extreme. Yeah. Of course, what you described was pretty extreme. It was kind of extreme, yeah. Yeah. So anything you do in your life that is weird can be a block, I think. But usually because people are looking for a block, unless, like I say, this was an extreme, that would block anybody. Well, but I mean, even something, let's say a guy's got a mohawk, and you're trying to share Christ with a, I don't know, a 60-year-old woman. And you think, well, maybe she'll be turned off by this mohawk and think I'm a punk and then not listen to me.

Should I not have mohawks? She'll put her on a hat. She's going to find out the mohawk eventually and then totally distrust everything you said. But at the same time, the guy with the mohawk will talk to someone that I can't. So I guess that's the question. Are you, is it correct to evaluate someone on what may be a stumbling block to the entire population as a whole? I mean, is that a fair assessment? No. Because you might look at someone who says, hey, I, let's say they're a non-problematic drinker or something, right, that permits you to be in situations that perhaps someone who doesn't drink at all can't necessarily get into without being awkward, okay? Anyway, that someone might drink could be a legitimate stumbling block to someone that's not in that crowd, but it could be a way in to that crowd. What are you saying? You take up certain habits just to get to know people? No, I'm not saying that that's a good thing. I'm not saying that you should go take up casual drinking to get involved in a situation. But what I'm asking is, is like, what some, what casual drinking isn't a sin, why not? I guess what I'm saying is if one person, what could be a stumbling block to a group of people may not be a stumbling block to another group of people. And do we need to be careful on evaluating what is a legitimate stumbling block for a person just because it might be a stumbling block to our worldview or us as opposed to a different group of folks? Yeah, Troy. You know, in all honesty, I think that I agree with the point of, you know, one thing that maybe I have that you don't have, that could push me to a different group than it could be you. Because I think you could be able to evangelize to a lot different group than I would be able to. Personally, Ben, you're a great guy, and I know you try and be hip with the whole YouTube and Facebook and the MySpace thing.

Wait for it. But I don't reach this generation. I just, I don't think that you would have the. But you look a lot like Mike. I don't think you look a lot like Mike. You do. I don't think that you would have the same impact. It's a terrible turn for me. On. Nice. On my age group. Then. Why is that? Personally, I do. I know that just from my experiences of knowing my friends just being in high school literally less than two years ago, my age group of people don't like to listen to any adults. Do they already think Mike and Ben are old? Man. Are you guys older than me? Not necessarily old. Are you older than me? How long has it been since you guys were nice?

I like to think of myself as a fine cheese. I am the culture. Mike, how long ago did you graduate? I defined the culture. You defined me. You are only who you are because of who I am. Really? You've affected my culture that much? I'm the original you. I don't think you are at all. You've muddied it up. It was way cooler when I did it. Same with Dan. Dan, your friends I probably wouldn't be able to evangelize. Oh, you could. See, we're more open. Dan's friends can barely push the bobble button anymore. Pop, pop. Zero. Where's the tennis balls for the edge of my walker? And I'm not just saying there's different cliques of people that only speak to those people.

And there's different social groups that would only speak to those kind of people. The guy with the gigantic mohawk isn't probably going to be able to go into a nursing home and talk to them the same as someone their age would be able to. Same as a 75-year-old grandmother might be able to, depending on if Jesus wants to or not. But on a general standpoint, 75-year-old grandmother isn't probably going to walk into a high school of a bunch of kids that would see somebody with a mohawk and say, oh, that thing's cool. See, that's what's wrong in our society today. Not Betty White wouldn't be able to evangelize in my high school? We don't mix generations. I mean, we had someone the other day ask about, hey, I'm going to be in a small group. Is it okay if I'm a little older than any other people? I said, well, yes. Yeah. So age doesn't really matter to me. Yeah. Me neither. She's going to bring home a 48-year-old man. I don't know. You know what? We'll play checkers together. He loves bingo.

He's like, your dad has the coolest records. That's great because now he'll have to play basketball with him. Is he songs of 84? Hey, Papa Dan, can I borrow that shirt? Cheryl's dad used to have to play basketball with me. Your son-in-law is going to be older than you, Dan. How's that? Ew, stop. I'm totally going to call you Papa Dan. That's going to be awesome. Dan-o. You're going to have to evaluate your choice in men. Go ahead. Well, what I was originally going to say is- You're disgusting. Ah, you guys took it to a whole different place. Anyway, I think it's more has to do with similar interests, different groups of people. We like music, Lawrence Wilk, Jim Neighbors. Jim Neighbors. I had a dream. I had a dream.

Uh-oh. I had a dream the other night that someone was like a next-door neighbor to Jim Neighbors. And they were talking about how he was a nice guy, but he didn't really do anything anymore. That's funny. They could say, hey, neighbor, and then it's a double laugh. That was the joke. I don't know why that came up. It really shouldn't have. Anyway. Hey, actually, hold on. That reminds me. I don't know what was going on with my dreams, but I had that same night. I had to dream that the Andersons were playing like hoops. Like there was a 5-on-5 basketball league, and Justin and Jordan Anderson were there shooting, like playing on one of the teams. Did they have like sweatbands in their hair? They were dressed normally. Were we playing? Yeah. Were we against the Andersons? We were on the sidelines.

We weren't actually in on the action. They wouldn't put us in the game? Were we doing commentary, or were they just going to play us? We were just hanging out. I don't know what we were doing there. It was a weird set of dreams I had that night. Something had to do with sleep. I've not even seen the Chronicles of Narnia, and I had like a vision for one of those, too. Are you sure you're not prophesying? Me and you and Dan will soon be on the bench at a major basketball tournament. Put us in, man. So tell me, Kobe, what do you really think? Did you eat chocolate chip pancakes before you went to sleep? Because I did, and I had the worst night of my life. Ooh, is that a weird dream? I don't think so. Okay, well, just watch out for those. I've been taking pills to regrow my teeth. Maybe those are good. That could be it. I'm taking some voodoo cabins.

I'm going to put my teeth back where they belong. All right, anyway, so I guess that may be the broad question that is- No, wait a minute. Okay, so here's the thing, though. It's why, if what Troy's saying is true, like what demographic really wants to hear from the dirty car guy, like I can relate to you on a filthy car to another guy that eats a filthy You know what, I'm sure if we have a national television show called Hoarders, and there are people that have those kind of situations, I'm sure there's car hoarders too. Nobody watches that show and goes, they're just like me. What I'm saying is, though, if there's more- We'd like to hang out. What I'm saying, though, is if there's more than one episode, there's more than one person that's been on that show, obviously, there are people who do have that situation. And me, sitting with my extremely clean car, all this good stuff, probably wouldn't be able to pull up to the dude that's sitting there with the dirty car, I mean, he's got chicken on his feet. Have you ever seen something with a car that is so- I mean, there was a gal in Atlantic that literally, it was literally to the, pretty much full to the roof. She could fit in it, and that was it. That was like my car last fall.

I've seen that, too. Now, see, you never see, you never see at the end of Hoarders, the gal changing her ways and going, I'm going to hoard for Jesus. I'm not saying- I'm sure there's other people just like me. And all the hoarders out there, let me tell you. If we're going to hoard for Jesus. Don't hoard your sins. Let them go. Jesus wants to take your sins. Just hoard your old baby clothes. Okay, okay, here's something. I went to visit a friend at Milligan College one time in Tennessee. An older man? No! Oh, my goodness. He was a professor. Really? Hey, Bruce. All right, I'm sorry. From now on, we're going to refer to Daniel's hypothetical older man boyfriend as Bruce.

Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. I don't like this at all. You were visiting an old man. I cannot speak tonight. Hello, Bruce. Ew, stop. Hello, sir. Why are you like talking? Mr. Bruce. Sorry. Never mind. I'm listening. We want to know about this. Please, Danny. We'd like to hear this. Can we go to your vacation home? Don't hoard your story. What is wrong with you guys? Share it. Share it.

I can't. Oh, yeah. Okay, so I'm visiting my friend Tracy, a girl. And. You can't stop if I didn't say anything. You're going to. Okay. I just can't look at anyone. Went to a church. Oh, my gosh. What? I'm just. Stop. I'm just doing a groove. I'm just in a locker. I'm doing a groove. I shouldn't even be laughing. I should be mad or something. Oh, my gosh. Is this real right now? Dude, I got that problem already.

It's getting delayed. Okay, cool. I'm ready. Oh, okay. You're at a church. Tracy's there, yeah. It was, like, for homeless people, basically, or, like, very low poverty or whatever. So, like, these people typically were not very clean, maybe not as educated, but it was all the, it's kind of like you can relate it to the dirty car type of thing. But they were all meeting together and could, like, encourage one another, I guess, and then go out and talk to the other people, like, who didn't, who were homeless and stuff. I don't know. So, that's kind of… Homeless people don't trust clean people? Is that what you're saying? Look at that clean fellow. It may be the situation, but do clean people trust homeless people? Well, they're clean people who were leading the service, or the dirty people. Well, that was unnecessary. That's the dirty people bathroom, and that's the clean people bathroom. So, there's a danger here.

There's a danger in this line of thinking that says, I'm niching out whatever goofiness is going on in my life so that I can effectively reach other people for Christ who have the same goofiness. That's true. I could very well say that I continue to be a smoker because I stand around other smokers, and I can evangelize to smokers where you couldn't. Yeah. What? Because you have a lot of free time. You have five minutes to stand out there, bum a smoker, talk to him, and if I went out there and wasn't a smoker, I would just be the weird guy out there hanging near the smoker. Right. But so, where's the backslide, right? Because on the other half of that, I'm being a terrible steward of the Lord's money, and I'm not treating my body as a temple. But I could reach people for Jesus while I'm out there smoking. I don't know if I'd go as far as I'm going to smoke so I can evangelize. Are you continuing to smoke for evangelizing? No, I continue to smoke because I'm smoking. Yeah, I'll be honest. Yes, I am.

You should smoke for Jesus. I don't think that'd be sending across the right message. Well, see, that's exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, what I'm saying is, though, you can take the niches that you're in. You can take the different situations that you're in. You have this addiction. You have this in your life. You have this in your life. You are not doing this to intentionally evangelize for Jesus. You take it, and you use it for it. So are you going to start to evangelize the smokers? I've done that before because I am out of the smoke shack a lot during the day. Well, but like— But I'm saying I don't intentionally— But does that give you an excuse to continue? I don't smoke to evangelize for Jesus. That's the problem. I think that's perfectly okay to say I was struggling with something, and now I can turn that experience, and I can help try to reach people for Christ using that. But let's say smoking is your deal. Do you then continue smoking just so you can still have that opportunity?

I wouldn't do that, no. No, because in all honesty, if I'm smoking, I obviously already have the relationship with those people. I'm not just the random dude sitting out there anymore. I've been smoking with them three times a day for the last nine months. So you can quit. And you could quit and then go back to them. If you have that relationship, it does not matter what you're doing. If you have that relationship with that person, you may not still have that smoking aspect where you still both smoke or you're still both a casual drinker. But at one point in time, you may have been and you may have developed a relationship with that person enough so you can't evangelize without having to go back to them. How are you going to reach more people? Like, you have a finite number of smokers. You can reach just the people you smoke with. But what I'm saying is, though, you should be able to use more than just your addiction. You should be able to use more than just you can use the situations that you've been put in. Jesus has put you in those situations for a reason. Maybe it's you're smoking right now. Now, God doesn't necessarily tell you to smoke, but you can take that and run with it. I don't know if I'm on board with that, Troy. I think that…

Yeah. Go. It goes back to Matthew 28. As you go make disciples. So whatever it is you're doing, wherever it is you're going, as you're there, you tell people about Jesus. Yeah. Whether you're smoking or picking your nose or at the grocery store. Hey, a fellow nose picker. Hey, hey. Let me tell you about Jesus. Gold digger. What's up? You know what I find? Redemption incorrect. That'd be so gross. Also… And this… Hang on. Have you met my new main squeeze, Danielle? Wow. That ear here is nasty.

I don't know. I guess the only thing that I would take away from that then is I think we should be careful, especially we have a similar lifestyle for the most part. Like the people in this room have a similar lifestyle is to be careful when we use the… You know, you're going to cause your brother to stumble with certain things and make sure A, the evaluation is a biblical one and B, that it's not just a… You may be offending part of the culture. That's possibly true. But that doesn't mean that you're not effective in other parts of the culture. And it's maybe that the other part of the culture that is unnecessarily offended. Well, right, as long as you're not portraying that a sin is okay. Like as long as your Piccadillo or your niche or whatever is not a sin, then you're fine. Well, it's like the XXX church guys who go into XXX conventions, whatever they are, the film, XXX film industry, and hand out Bibles and evangelize and all that. But, I mean, they get a lot of flack from that, from the Christian community going like, what do you do when hanging out with porn stars and, you know, these people are walking around with whatever they're wearing or not wearing. And they're… I don't know with how effective they are, but they have a national ministry. I can use anybody. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about…

Okay, I'll do that one. I'm not exactly saying that that's what I would do. It's the sweeping Christian cover-up. I would not be able to do that. I would not be comfortable being that guy. I would not be a good candidate for ministry. Going back to what you guys were talking about earlier is I couldn't… I don't know about the whole God's calling me thing. Obviously, it happens. I understand that. But I don't know when it's legitimate. I don't know how to make it founded. But when it comes to stuff like that, I don't know. Maybe that guy one day decided that, you know what? Porn stars need Jesus too. And there's nothing lying about that. That is not a lie. That's the absolute truth. Porn stars do need Jesus too. Regardless of their lifestyle, they need Jesus. Yeah.

So, okay, what do you say if you have reached a porn star now and they've committed themselves to Christ, but they don't want to give up their job? That's between them and Jesus. Oh, I'm the harsh answer. You're not really committed to Christ. I mean, I'm committed to Christ, but I'm going to keep this sin in my life intentionally. I mean, I hear that all the time. Not necessarily porn stars, but with whatever, you know, well, I have this, you know, this is my income, this is my livelihood, this is my whatever. Change it. God will take care of you. I don't see why that's any question. I think you also have to think about what aspect they're coming from, right? Because if they don't have a relationship, if they're new and, like, they don't have a trusting relationship with God, I mean, they may say, look, I believe, but they haven't had that relationship. I mean, you're asking them to, out of nowhere, you know, trust in God. We actually touched on this just a little bit before the show started in a conversation we're having. But, like, you're basically saying, I want you to trust in this God here to completely change your life. And, like, sometimes you'll get smacked around and you can do that and that will happen for you. But I think if all you say is, look, you're failing because you're not trusting completely in God to give this thing up, I don't know. I think that might actually turn somebody off. I think that you do have to tell them the truth that to follow Christ is you cannot choose to continue this sin in your life. And I think the place to start is, like, we need to make sure we're identifying this appropriately.

This is a sin. God speaks to this as being a problem. And he's telling you that you can't do this. And then the two things that you're trying to balance are never going to balance out. You can't follow Christ and continue to hold firmly to a sin. They've never taken a step of repentance. Yeah. They believe, they may confess, might get baptized. Without repentance, all that's worthless. Well, but then I think Ben makes a solid point there, too, is they don't know the difference at the moment. Like, they hear what you're saying, you know, and they're like, well, yeah, this sounds like I want a relationship with this God. But, like, they don't know him. You know, they don't know. They just don't. You know, it sounds like a George Jones situation when you say, give everything up that you have right now just because you want to take Jesus. Do it. You know, it seems like the better tact would be to say, you know, what you're doing is a sin and you need to pray on it. And if you truly want to follow Jesus, I think you'll find that this is not consistent with the life that he has in store for you. Or the life that you obviously wanted to get away from. You say, like, I want to change. Like, following Christ tends to be a part of changing your life and say, look, I want my life to change.

Except for I want to hold on to my life. You know, that's a mind thing. You're obviously being inconsistent. Well, I was talking to a guy or I know a guy who started a church in Las Vegas, you know, and it was instantly a very successful church. You know, well over a thousand people, blah, blah, blah. Well, and he said it was so crazy that you would in this church, you had people who would come to church before going to work or after coming home from work. And there were strippers and clowns and, you know, everything you can imagine. You know, if they take a photo of the people sitting in their church, it would have just been like, you know, what's this? And it's like, what do you do with that when you have a half a dozen strippers? You know, at what point do you allow them to struggle through their faith? And at what point do you sit down and say, hey, honestly, really? Right. And they're saying, hey, I'm a single mom and this isn't the good money, blah, blah, blah. You know, at what point is suck it up and, you know. Right, because ultimately, and that's the thing, is you may be the purveyor of a way of life that they're going to have a hard time putting a solid color on. I mean, if you say, look, this does have to stop. I'm a single mother. I got to, you know, I need to bring in money. You're going to have to trust that God is going to provide. And understanding that from earlier that perhaps it's not biblical to say God wants you to be happy, that could end up in a strikingly bad situation, worldly bad situation.

Well, you know, the thing is, though, is we paint that, we paint that with one brush an awful lot. Like the Bible does not say that God wants you to be happy, but in the same breath, you know, the, um, what? You just coughed on my face. Did I really? I'm sorry. Burn and turn. That's all right. That's cool. Burn with fever. I thought I made it all the way over. It was like gust of wind. That's pretty embarrassing. Excuse me. It's all right. But in the, but in the same breath, like that, we were talking about miracles happening, uh, the same breath, we can talk about people that are, God chooses to live, uh, a non happy life. Pretty much. You know what I'm saying? Like the majority of people that, that, that, uh, that, that come to know Jesus have, have is what they're concerned to be a blessed life.

They feel blessed with what they have. I mean, talk to any Christ follower that, you know, that's truly following Jesus that you'd be hard pressed to find one that says, I'm, I don't feel blessed. I don't feel like that's the joy we were talking about earlier, that I can be in the midst of this pretty stinky situation and say, wow, God's blessed me with this. Who says that? What? Someone who has joy. So, so you can say that, that God doesn't prop, you know, uh, promise happiness, but, uh, you know, the fruits of the spirit, one of them is joy, you know? And so, you know, find, find someone who's truly seeking Christ that doesn't have that. That's true. That evaluation, uh, like that life has taken a negative turn, uh, would also imply that, uh, perhaps not a complete commitment because otherwise you wouldn't have any of that peace or joy that's associated with it. Because what you're trying to tell people from, from God's perspective is that, uh, you know, you're, you're trying not to, to lie to him. You're not trying to sell it as a magic potion. You know, that everything's going to be great, grand, and wonderful, uh, as soon as you get to know Jesus. Jesus, what you really ought to be saying is by your standards right now, as you're living,

everything's not going to be great, grand, and wonderful. That's not promised to you. What's promised to you is it's going to be great, grand, and wonderful by Jesus's standards, which the fact that he died for you and he's keeping you out of hell, that's pretty great, grand, and wonderful right off the bat. And everything down from there, you should feel blessed that you're not going to hell. That's a blessed life, you know? And when they're looking at it from that perspective, I think you can promise them a lot. I think you can promise them that they'll be blessed. Because frankly, even, even the fact that the, the offer of grace is out there is a blessing. Yeah. You know, so you can promise that. So maybe, maybe, maybe we fail on that on, on a certain end is, is shading it too much. The negative is saying that, you know, he, he's not going to promise you happiness and without saying, you know, define happiness, your version of happiness right now without knowing Jesus, you're right. He's not going to promise that. Happiness is totally dependent on circumstances and how you view the circumstance. Well, yeah, it's just more entirely your view of the circumstances, right? I mean, yeah, because it can be raining.

Half the people are happy because, wow, it's finally raining. The other half people are ticked off. Like, are you kidding? It's raining. Well, they chose how they reacted to that same situation, you know, rather than just joy of, wow, God's in control. Right. And when you turn all those things over to Jesus, you don't even have to worry about what your own reaction is to things anymore. You just go, count it all blessing. Yeah. And you know what? If you count it all blessing, that means you got to bless life. Things are pretty cool. That's deep. That makes me happy. I'm happy. I'm very happy. I'm very happy about this. Clean out your wheels. My car's dirty.

It's causing people to stumble. Mine gets pretty dirty. All right. You've been listening to Live from the Path. You can catch us every Monday night from 10 to midnight on livefromthepath.org. Also, make sure you check out the YouTube channel. We put a bunch of clips up from the Spirit Midwest Music Festival, and we will be adding some more. A lot of the music clips that turned out are out there already, including some stuff from Jesse Anderson from Sanctified, On This Rock, and Sidewalk Prophets. We have clips from all those folks out there, so make sure you go check that out. Also, our interview with Vance Lambert is out there. I'll be trying to get some more of our band interviews out there within the coming weeks, so you can check those out in case you didn't catch them on the festival. Mike, anybody need some advice this week? Yeah. Yeah, I found one. It is, it says, Dear, Live from the Path. My friend Sarah is married to Carl, who emotionally abuses her. My husband and I used to spend a lot of time with them, but we have gradually dropped Carl from our circle because we can't tolerate the way that he treats his wife.

Sarah has asked me not to drop her because she has very few friends left. She stays with Carl because she's afraid she'll lose too much financially if they divorce. I've tried to tell her that her happiness should outweigh her desire for material things, but she likes living in her fancy home. Carl hasn't worked in almost 10 years and does nothing but drink and belittle Sarah. He's also hostile to her adult children, who are fabulous people. If Sarah wants to see her grandchildren, she goes to their home because he doesn't want them around. Live from the Path, this is a career woman who could retire in a few years, but probably won't because her work is her escape. I think Sarah is living a miserable existence. She deserves so much more. I know I'm not being a good friend as I can be, and I feel guilty, but I have lost respect for her. I'm sick of hearing how he's trying to be better. It's hard to watch someone who chooses to live her one life this way. How can we support her when we can't stand her spouse or understand her reason for staying in a loveless marriage? Did she say she's worried about her financial situation and Carl hasn't worked in 10 years? That's what I was thinking. They got some money stored up.

They said she has a successful career. I think she's the money. She's going to… So what's she worried about? She has to give half of it to Carl. Oh. No, and I understand that. Yeah, exactly. Once the divorce is through, obviously not next year. I don't support the divorce, but what do you mean not next year? He's overreacting. Once you get a divorce, you don't owe them half your… I don't think you have to pay palimony. You owe them half of your retirement. Right. There has to be a reason that Carl's not working. I'm pretty sure that they're banking on their retirement, and then if they divorce, then he gets half of her retirement. Ouch. Well, she financially loses quite a bit. The friend is a busybody.

She's too concerned. If her friend is okay in this situation, who am I to be not okay in her situation? Obviously, I may look at something as abuse, and maybe she's not taking it as abuse. I mean, was it… I can't remember. It wasn't like violent abuse, was it? No, emotional. Emotionally belittles her adult children? Yes. Who are these weenies? Well, yeah. Screw you, Dad. The adult children should take care of it. Bruce is mean to me. Him and his new lady friend. It's them. It's them. What's that? Go ahead. I'm saying the whole Bruce thing as you guys. Wait, what?

Forget it. Forget it. That's not… Forget it. Go on. You're about to make a point. I'm the gas. You're the brakes, Troy. I was about to really pump this show ahead. Go ahead. We were about to make a turn. Okay, so here's the question, right? So let's say he is… The friend's basically saying, I'm tired of her coming over here and saying he's trying to get better. The gal continually asks, can we hang out with us? Can we go on dates or whatever? And they say, no, no one wants to be around Carl because he's a big jerk face, right? She's continually saying he's trying to get better because the friend keeps butting her nose in saying, man, why isn't any better? That's what you think's going on?

That's what I think's going on. You don't think that the lady's coming over to the friend and complaining all the time and she's like, I just can't take this anymore. Well, yeah, and they spent a lot of time together. Is that because her friend wanted… Why would you come over and gossip about your husband and then say, oh, by the way, he's getting better? He's doing better. He's great. Yeah. I think it's the other thing. I think the other… I think the busybody's trying to butt in and saying, you're not happy in your marriage. And the other guy was going, no, I'm happy. He's getting better. It's all great. Maybe I didn't read it or hear it clearly. Actually, I like the formality this lady has about her circle. My friend is asking me not to drop us from her circle. We've dropped this guy from our circle. Just be on Google+.

Dan has a solid point. Part of her letter does say, I think Sarah is living a miserable existence. She deserves so much more. According to me. It is her making basically a decision based on someone else's marriage. It probably sounds like it's none of her business. So the advice is, Doug, is butt out. Butt out. Don't make her miserable marriage make you miserable if she's not miserable. Maybe the lady who's writing in is just really, really bored. That could be. Spends too much time maintaining her circle. She needs to watch the Jersey Shore. All right. What was the counter advice, Mike? The advice from the world's perspective is, much as you might like to, you can't run your friend's life or use your personal yardstick to measure what is important to her. After years of verbal abuse, Sarah's self-esteem may be shaky. Ooh. And she doesn't feel prepared to take the financial hit that a divorce would cause. Your friend could use both counseling and legal advice, and if you care about her, you should

suggest it. But other than that, if you want to remain friends, my advice is to stop judging her. I think I agree with the world this time. That's pretty much what Dan said. Is that bad to say that? Low self-esteem. All right. You've been listening live from the path. Self-esteem is a false thesis. That's our new tagline. We will see you next week. Supernaw will be in studio. Daniel will not. Oh. Bye, guys. Oh. Thanks for coming. We're going to send you out. This is Jesse Anderson's new single, Fireflies. This is on her Not What I Thought album coming out in September. Please enjoy.

Thanks for listening to Live from the Path. We'll see you next week.