Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the Path.

And are you're listening to life the path broadcasting from the Pathway studios here in Johnston Proper. Why are you yelling at everybody? I I I speak loud so people will know me. I will be heard. Speak bold, Ben. Speak bold. You're listening to Live From The Path again. Thanks for being with us. Should be a great night here on the program. Here's what we got going on. First of all, I'm gonna… I I I had a situation where I I I played bass in the thing for a show in which there was a guy talking about he had a vision of being in in hell for twenty three minutes. Alright?

And and my first reaction is that's wacky. And so so I think we're gonna talk a little bit through how to handle stuff that you think might be wacky, but it's Jesus related. What to be open to, what to close your mind, when to be a Berean, basically. So I'll tell you a little about kind of what he what he said and and what I thought of the experience, but but also if we could broadly walk away from a here… Here's something that's god related that, you think might be wacky.

What's the best way to react to it? And so we're gonna talk through that. Also, we're on, number 45 from the proofs, 50 proofs that god is imaginary from godisimaginary.com. He's provided 50 proofs that he believes shows

that god is indeed imaginary. We've walked through 44 so far. God is 44 and o, but we're gonna keep rolling all the way through all of them, and we're on number 45. It's to do with Noah's ark. And so we'll talk about that. Also, we'll do some advice on dear life and the path, and we'll we'll take your questions and commentary on the chat. You're not gonna have any. No. No. No. That's that's that's probably true. Any discerning individual is not checking out the show, especially at this unheavenly hour. Indeed. Yeah. No doubt. And

you're listening to know live from the path on live from thepath.org and ninety nine point three KTIA. Thanks for hanging out with us. Here's the deal. We were also, one of the the things that happened this weekend is we were broadcasting from the, Building 429 Oh, no. No. Hold on. We went to the Building 429 show. We had it set up to broadcast, and it kinda it kinda took a tanker for legal reasons. And,

but we did get to interview. There's there's there's four bands there, and we got to interview three of the four bands, and the interviews just went awesome. But in in classic life from the past style, technical difficulties just put the the big crowbar to them. So that was kinda disappointing because they they were pretty good. We got to talk to Jason from building four twenty nine. We got to talk to Rhett Walker from the Rhett Walker band, and we got to talk to Tim Timmons. And that guy was just awesome to talk to. We probably sat there in the interview room and talked to him for an hour after after his set was done, and he was just, he was just a really cool guy to get to know. He's a worship pastor out in California,

and, he… He's he's been diagnosed with incurable cancer, circa twelve years ago. And he's and he's just roaming around doing what Jesus tells him to do, looking pretty sharp, actually. And so… But we talked to him forever. He was he was way cool to talk to, and so it was it was pretty awesome. All all three of those artists that came in, they're kinda big time. They're kind of a big deal in the in the in the Christian music world. And, they agreed to come in and talk to us. I'm not sure why, and they were totally humble and cool. I think Jason from, building four twenty nine walked in and looked at my feet and said, those steel toe boots? I said, yeah. They are. He goes, that's how work gets done. I'm like, I really like you. You know? Like,

I just thought what I expected. You know? Was just a really cool thing to say. So so, anyway, they they were… They they were super cool, and I don't know. It just kinda doubles down when you meet guys like that and you think, you know, why they do what they do, and they're just as honest about who they are, off stage as they are on. You know I'm saying? They set a good example. Their their music glorifies God, and then you talk to them, and it it just doesn't come with the air of pompassey that generally you get out of even low level musicians. You know what saying? If you played more than two bars, people come in here like, hell, you know, I know the business. You know, I know the music industry. Pretty good. Here's the deal. You guys I'm up there. Broadcasting a closet. I don't have to talk to you. You know? And you get kind of attitude. You know? It did… It looked bad too because we we… They they basically… There was… There's this front area, and they they didn't have a bunch of, they didn't have any room for us out in the front area. And so we ended up in, like, somebody's office. Yeah. I was sitting behind the desk with the, you know, laptop and, like, one webcam, kinda pointing around. There's those, those old school vertical shades were in the background. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, you know, we just had a couple office chairs. It was it was not good. It was not a good setup. I mean, the the the venue did the best they could. They provided us what they could. But but those guys were pretty cool pretty cool to deal with, and it was a cool event. And here's the here's the thing. Mike Mike actually did… We've often lamented that we are terrible interviewers. For for guys that run a a fake radio show, you think we've gotten better over a series of years. But, no, we're we're just… We're not very good. We don't do a very good job interviewing people. Mike did a did a great job, and I have the interviews recorded except for there's some kind of weird beeping going on throughout the whole interview. I mean, I tried to EQ this thing out. It's just like Mike's talking to the… To one of the artists, and it goes beep beep beep. That's something. Beep beep. Here's the thing. I've never been at my best.

Never. He has yet to figure out what that is. I've never looked back at something that I've done and got. I was at my best. You know? You just… You still have something to add forward to. Except for on Saturday. I mean, I was prime time. I was asking questions. I wasn't stumbling. My jokes were moderately funny, if not, at least disgusting enough to keep the conversation moving. I mean, it was solid. So I have a question. Yep. You you mentioned one of them have… Has incurable cancer. How long… That was twelve years ago. Yeah. How long were… Did they give him originally? I don't know. He didn't say. I didn't ask So he… I mean,

I just wonder what the story is there. Did did did Here's the thing. Heal him of it? Did the… Is he in remission? No. I think it's incurable. I think he just walks around with it. I'm not really sure what it does. Here's the thing. Like, I I read up on him a little bit, you know, before I talked to him, and it's on his website. It said incurable cancer. I thought, well, if he wanted to elaborate, I figured he'd done it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't if that, you know, one of your great questions maybe asked him. No. And here… You know, here's the exact reason why I didn't. I figured everyone else would ask him that. Yeah. So I asked him what was his most embarrassing song he had on his iPod. Oh, there you go. And I, you know, he… There's some good answers there. There's some really good answers. Well, that was in my twenties. I used to think it'd be really cool if I got, like, some incurable disease, and then I would rent big auditoriums and people would come hear me speak. And then I got older and I thought, really no one would care. They'd say, who's the guy who's dying and why is he running the big hall to speak? I don't really wanna hear what he has to say. That's a pretty morbid thought, Dan. I I know I really am. I'm a thought that I had cancer and I could rent out an auditorium. I Dan, if you had this serious Hold on. Now this is revealing about Dan. Because if you had if you had any friends at all, they would have said, Dan, that's ridiculous. Well, I never told anybody. Don't you feel like you should run that through somebody? That's one of my most dangerous things. It's probably

the first time it's ever come out of my mouth. I just… Had I get a hammock and iced tea and I I think, hey. The motivation wasn't that I wanted a a big, you know, scene. The motivation was I need to tell as many people about Jesus as possible. If I… If my death would bring that, it'd be pretty cool. And then… And and didn't die. Okay. That's a bit better than you were just running out an auditorium and then saying, hey, everybody. I'm the guy in the pamphlet. I have this incurable I just thought it'd this really cool emotional story, and then it could bring big pulp Your hamster wheel just runs different than most. That's all. I think I think I agree with you on that. Dan is the only guy at career day who says, I wanna be a martyr. Dan, what do wanna do with your life? Well, give it up. I tried to get a guy to stone me out in the field, but

Wasn't taking it. For a break. It just doesn't happen nowadays. He wasn't really big on it. Alright. You're listening to life from the path. Hey. Oh, hey. One other thing. We're gonna we're gonna try to hit. So, you know, there… There's some cultural things. There's some stuff in the bible that doesn't seem to fly well in our culture. And and I've heard many, many people attempt to defend it, the biblical worldview, either on social media or on the the mainstream media. And and it just… It never goes well. It never goes well either because the guy's, like, bad defending that that, the the biblical worldview, and he's a doofus. Or he's good at it, but but it… Like, it just never gets framed well, and the people there are are reacting to it. And and the people that you want to to… That that really need to see the the truth that's in that biblical worldview,

just don't seem to it just seemed to amp them up. It's pretty hard to argue against natural carnal, you know, desire. Yeah. No. No. Here's the thing. You cannot explain the character of god in in in a in a tweet. Do you know what I'm saying? Sure. Like, we like, we we can… Well, you wanna wait till we get into it? Yeah. Yeah. What's… So I think what do I wanna be thinking about on this is like… So, like, what are you supposed to do? Done thinking about it. No. No. You're gonna have to put the feet on the floor. He's ready to talk.

You and your pawpastic time. Here's… You think you're gonna get some grandiose speech here. I I have the deal. I'll wait on it. You're gonna think on it. You're gonna ruin us. Alright. I'll give I'll give the guys in the chat some time to think about it. And the guys that are on… Listening on KTA, there's only a couple guys. Hey. You two fellas. Just… Let's all get together. Let's just think about it. And and what… Basically, what I wanna wanna figure out is, like, do you do you stop defending it in those… In that in that sphere? Do you just stay out of the media? Yes. You know? And if yeah. So so anyway, that's that's what we're talking about. Dan says no. So what's Can't pull it off right, Dan? Your hamster wheel's different.

Alright. So that's that's what we got going on in the show tonight. Life in the Path is brought to you by Caponna's Coffee and Gelato in Ames. The the weather is starting to turn. It's time to enjoy a cool, refreshing, sweet, tasty gelato from Caponnas. Troy said he was gonna bring one down from Ames when the weather got nice. What happened? It just appears as though I forgot to do so.

Just how nice is I have to get… Man, it just… It it… I don't remember saying that, and I'm sorry. I must have. Irresponsibilities, disease that followed you your whole life, Troy. I'm gonna I'm gonna take control of that, and I apologize. I'm gonna You're either a liar or a loser. Yeah. Exactly. Let me let me make sure I get up there sometime soon and bring us back down some July. Also, the Eisenhower team, hey hey, here's the thing. Is now now that you're opening your you're opening your windows, you realize not that you're that your house smells. Yeah. You got a window funk at your place. Yep. Your yard's not very cool. And you go out, you you pull outside, you see the warm sunshine, you see other people's houses that are cool than yours. It's time to move. Yeah. Right. And the Eisenhower team could help you out with that because you have a junky house. Indeed. And now now is the time. I think rates are still low. I don't really know. That's why Yeah. Yeah. That's why I pay the Eisenhower team. It's not my job to know those type of things. But find those guys. The Eisenhower's can help you buy and sell a house, and they can help you do it right. They're… They have much better advice than I. Also, on purpose promotions, onpurposepromos.com to help you with all your promotional needs. You need a bunch of T shirts for running event. People are running. You see that? I feel like that's catching on, this running business. People are getting together. They're running a big tag teams of folk. You want shirts that look, I don't know, look the same? You can go to hardpurposepromos.com,

and Jerry Roy can help you out. Also, Valley Services. Go to Valley Services. Catch them online, and they can help you out. Hey. Here's the other thing. It's spring cleaning doesn't meet… Doesn't have to be some big gargantuan task. Pay somebody else to do it. They'll come in, and they'll do it for you. You can go run if you want to either. Exactly. Cleaning. Exactly. Go to Valley Services, they can help shirt that says good job cleaning people. Anyway, tell those… If nothing else, contact those sponsors. Say thanks for sponsoring Life in the Path and allowing us to be on the air on ninety nine point three KTA. Here it is. Proof number 45 from godisimaginary.com. Proof number 45 is consider Noah's Ark. Now I'm a try to give you only… This guy's got a really long one. If you wanna read the whole thing, you're gonna have to go to go to their… That website.

But I'll I'll try to give you the nuts and bolts of his argument. Have you ever… Here he goes. Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible story of Noah's flood, and have you ever pondered what the story's position in the Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible and therefore Noah's story to be literally true, most educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth. They understand that Mount Everest was never covered in floodwater. They understand that the ark cannot hold the millions of species that are now found on Earth, and they understand there's no DNA evidence to show that all animals on Earth came from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago. But there's one part of the story in Noah's ark that deserves special recognition. It shows us something about god that is quite unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider his actions. That special section is this. God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals in the flood. How do we know it was senseless? Because God is supposed to be all knowing and all powerful. If God were to exist, God would know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization leads to an obvious question. Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, Troy, but it's exquisitely important exquisitely important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order, it is a mass murder on a global scale. The idea that Christians would accept a mass murder as their urge to worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think about it. By supposedly murdering nearly every human on the planet, the Christian god is far more heinous than Hitler. No loving and perfect being can also be a mass murderer bent on global genocide, yet Christians willfully worship him. And Noah's flood is not the only place where god displays these horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. And he gives some other examples. There's Exodus, 12, talking about the, the angel of death coming through Egypt.

Chapter 13, it says that the death of children is directly at the hand of god. In Isaiah chapter 13, god paints this word picture. Anyone who's captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. In Jeremiah chapter 49, god paints a similar picture in Hosea chapter 13 and numbers 31. Deuteronomy chapter three, again, talking about all the all the killings, the the the murders and stuff, as represented in the Old Testament.

Think about the thousands of families who were affected by these massacres. The Bible describes their suffering. They wept and could not be comforted. Of course, they could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your door one morning and slaughtered your children. Why would God do this? Why would you want anything to do with such a murderous, horrific being? What can we say about people who would want to believe in such a being? Why would any normal intelligent ethical human being worship such a heinous, demented, and despicable god as this? It is impossible for a perfect and loving being to also be heinous, demented, and despicable. As an intelligent person, you should be able to see that. This impossibility tells us that god is imaginary. Initial reactions. Here's the situation. So

if you look at this from your your ethical and and smart and and and informed standby, this was all… We deserved it. Like, putting out all other bits of this conversation, this this proof that he's calling it. Every bit of those things were either to prove a point for future believers

to prove that god is all powerful in his… In these respective situations or because we absolutely deserved it. Not necessarily us in general, but men. Man, the the the creation that god has made. So with with his his concept in Exodus when the the first born were killed, that was to prove a point to destroy pharaoh's stubbornness to show that God was the all powerful, the all knowing, the all… And and the creator

of this world and to destroy what the Egyptians believed to be god. Okay. So so what makes that not heinous? What makes that not murderous? It's… Okay. So the concept that it's murderous is true. It it was murder. However, it was to prove a point. God knows more than we do and 100% was deserved. So it's okay because it was deserved. That's what I'm saying. In god's eyes, if if it was deserved,

he's god. And that's what it rolls down to. I think I think what you're saying is if if you light a a large fire and say don't jump in the fire because you will burn up and die, and then people jump in the fire and burn up and die, is that murder or is that you tried? You told them, you warned them, and they chose to jump in the fire anyway. That's really what most of are examples of. People rebelling against god, people rebelling against his statutes, and he he warned us, if you do these things, it it doesn't end well and it didn't end well for a lot of people. I think people come into problems

more often when it's not a one for one, right? Like, like, in that situation, in the Exodus situation, you look at pharaoh and go, pharaoh and his, you know, subsidiaries are disobeying god. What's with killing the son? Mhmm. The son didn't get a chance. He, you know, he's an innocent bystander. Well, the dad, you know, god visited the punishment on the son because of the dad's sin. Right? I I think that's more of a stumbling block than the one for one. Like, I see the one for one pretty obvious. Right? Right. God sets a rule and he says, don't do that. And then you do it and then he has to kill you. He said he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna kill you or you are inherently gonna die by something if you continue to act this way. You know, and and I mean, he was warned. I mean, Pharaoh was warned about about what was coming. It's not like this was a big shocker,

right? Like, he had plenty of chances time after time to change his ways. Right. And and here's the thing is if you're going to go, if you're going to go horn to horn with the with the god of the universe, don't expect you're going to come out, you know, you're shining. Shining on the other end. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the deal, some people will stand in their prideful steps all the way to their death Right. And not and not know the presence of god. You know what I'm saying? Until

the kid. You know what I'm saying? Until something in your life has… Shows bear of god because they will pride themselves. I mean, the the reaction that that… Pharaoh's reaction is perfect because that's exactly what god had to do. Right? I need you to realize who I am. I am I I am creator god. You know what I'm saying? And Pharaoh fought and kicked and screamed and he said, okay. Great. No. I don't buy it. Okay. Great. I don't buy it. I don't… Okay. Until he took his son, and he goes, that's it. Who am I dealing with? You've got to go. You've got to go right now. Right? So tell me to tell me that that that do

I know god's exact thinking on the whole shebang and the hearts of every kid that that died that day? I have no idea. I know god's I know god's perfect. His justice is perfect, and his ways aren't my ways. That's what I know. Right? So however it was done and however it got… It it went out makes perfect sense to me. I just trust that god handled it correctly. But, I mean, if I had to try to explain god's god's heart on this deal, look, he said… When he wants something to happen and he knows how it's gotta go down, for an end result, that's how it has to go down. He's he's creator god. That's what he does. And and, you know, the flip side of this is this is probably the most legitimate argument he has had because on the surface, you go, wow. Yeah. You know, he killed the entire planet with Noah. You know? Yeah. He killed all those firstborns in Egypt. All, you know, there's some lot of stories of entire nations and and and their cattle and everything being slaughtered but that but that goes, you know, back to the argument what we said. It was it was a purification thing. It's just it's they they crossed the line. They they had shook their fist in the face of god almighty and he and he's like,

I'm god. You don't do that. Yeah. And I think ultimately, it it it comes down to the fact that that, what what Dan was saying is that they, you know, you made a choice. When you when you say I'm going to worship myself, you're making the the affirmative choice to worship yourself and to serve your needs, but that means you're also making the other choice to say, I will not worship god. And and and and you are prepared to accept the consequences of a world that self worship brings you. And a world that self worship brings you is a world that that doesn't have god and his attributes in it. I mean, you… They will, god is god is is a loving god. He's a gracious god. He's a merciful god. When you reject him, you say, I don't care for your mercy. I don't care for your grace. I don't care for your love. And then ultimately, the consequence is you don't get any of those things. You rejected and said, I won't… Don't want them. I don't… I'm not taking them. And, that was a terrible decision. That was an awful, stupid, terrible decision. And I can look at those people that have died and said, boy, you you really shouldn't have rejected his grace, his mercy, and his love. Right. Yeah. But but you shook your feet. You you shook your fist at him and said, won't take it. Now see, this is this is this… The one he didn't mention that I was waiting for was the book of Job. Right? When god when god allowed Satan to kill 10 of the… Job's 10 kids. Right? So that one's a little bit harder because there's not a direct sin going on here. Right? Satan's just trying to test him, and god allows it. And so

I think that the hard thing to grasp here is this is this is a a a man hubris. You know what I'm saying? Like, god gave you life, and it's… Now it's his job to leave you alone and let you do it. You can choose to be a follower of Jesus or you can choose to, betray god of the universe, but, like, god gave you life and now it's yours. Right? And that's a that's a man pride problem. You know I'm saying? The god that gives life can take away and and that's exactly what Job says. Right? God has given. God has taken away. Naked, I come in. Naked, I leave. Praise be to god. That's the that's the attitude to have. That's not the attitude most people have. When when you have to look at Job's kids,

Job obviously loved his kids more than I loved him and he can take that tact. But I look… I read that story and I think, did the kids really have to die? Did you really have to kill the kids to prove this point for generations to come just so I could read this story? I'm not gonna… I I… You know, I'm not gonna tell you. I didn't struggle with that. Right? I didn't I didn't get it. I know in the end, it's correct, and I know god's justice is perfect, but I read that story and I go, really, the kids? You left the nagging wife? You killed the kids. You know what I'm saying? You let them kill them. And I thought this… That's odd. And… But I'm starting to kinda get the feeling it only had to happen so I could see Job's response because if it wasn't an honest response out of Job, then I'd have no example to look back upon, right? Yeah. And I and I think you're right. I think I think it points to the fact that we look at again, if I'm sovereign, it's my life and it cannot be taken as opposed to my life was a gift to me from god. Right? And he has the ability and and but I I don't look at it that way. I said, he has no right to… Upon my life. He is not sovereign. I am sovereign. It is my life and god shall not infringe upon it. And if you don't look at life as a gift, that's something that God has given. Then then then that is your natural reaction. Your reaction is to say, God stole

that life from that person. Yeah. As if it wasn't his to begin with, right? It wasn't, there's nothing to steal. It belongs to him. That life was a gift from him. He has the ability to take it back. He has the ability to draw people back into him, and, and it's it's it's ultimately a sovereignty of god issue. And I think you can… That that to to to what you said, Dan, about about being his most legitimate point so far, I think is a legitimate struggle. I think people people can understand… I can certainly understand the thought that that struggling with god's

sovereignty because the sovereignty of god sometime has a negative impact on my life as far as my perspective. Right? My… God has the benefit of the full picture. I have I have a small picture and hopefully faith that allows me to trust that he will handle the big picture correctly. And, like, that's that's the that's the step that I think is when you're really starting to walk in faith is when you're saying, I trust god that that that all good and perfect things flow from him. I trust that, like, he sees this big picture and 10 kids, 10 of Job's kids died

and and and God is still just. And that there's no way in that situation that God was unjust. That situation had to be just because it's not as in in his character to not be just. And that's understanding God in his full character. And so… But I… And I think, you know, the… If you don't have the full picture of god that the scripture provides and if you don't have that faith, like, that's a that's a reasonable gap because you wouldn't… You… If it wasn't god, if it was another person, you never put another person in that same respect. Right? You never trust anybody else to say, well, I killed 10 kids, but it was totally righteous. It was totally just. Right? You'll never trust a person to that extent. If it's not God, then it's nobody.

And so if you're limited in scope to to to looking at from a people oriented position, yeah, I know. There's no reason for you to believe that. If you you take out god's name and say it's, you know, Frank from down the road, you know, the situation He's just a murderer. It's completely different. It's completely different. You don't trust Frank's guidance, big picture. I mean, he's he's gotta be way out there to see that big picture. What? But it's because it's God and because of his character as revealed through the entirety of the scripture that you can come to passages like that and say, boy, I'm glad that God is just because I can be comfortable that situation

played out in a fair and just manner. This is the thing. It's like… And and I do this, and I think across the board, most Christians will do this. Right? You you hold God in a certain picture of who he is, you know, and and and, you know, you you will accept his grace. You'll accept his kindness. You'll accept even his sacrifice so you can continue to live. But once in a while, when god decides to actually show the justice that he has been holding back, you freak out. You're like, justice now? That seem… You're outrageous, you know, when really he's he's traded his justice for grace this whole time. You know what I'm saying? And then every once in a while, when true justice shows up, people people flip out like how… That's unjust that you're acting how you said you would and that you're you're punishing in a way that you said you were going to punish and your and your your character is being revealed for exactly what you said it was gonna be. And when the whole time… Like, when you look at this god that that that took out the 10 kids of Job, you say, look, god provided that life and you say, well, what kind of god would give me this life and then hoard over it if I didn't do exactly what he says? Well, the truth of the matter is is that is that god protected that life because you didn't die the first time you sinned.

Right? If the punishment for sin is death and and god gave you grace to protect that life so it wasn't over when you were two or whenever your cognitive ability is to sin against him. I don't know. Yeah. But but you know what I'm saying? Like, if god didn't love you and love that life that he gave you, he wouldn't give you the grace to continue in it even if it was sinful and against him. There's 30 year old guys out there. There's 10 year old guys out there that should be dead now. You know what I'm saying? If you can find me a sinless guy that's still up and rocking past the age of 10, I'm I'll be blown away. So, that means that none of us should have made it past. Right. Right? But god's common grace for the lives that he provided, he gives everybody that grace. Patience. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So he has the patience and the and and the grace for you to have the ability to come back and know him. Right? And so that's a that's a common grace. Everybody gets that. Not just people who follow Christ, but even people that don't. You know, they're still alive to know him later because his patience and kindness for the life that he's given you. And then when he when he takes it for his will and his ways, you know, we get up on our soapbox and say, god, how dare you? You know, that's a that's a huge perspective issue. And, you know, to a certain degree, I think we probably all have

a skewed perspective on god's sovereignty even if we don't want it. We do. Right? Because if god is sovereign and god rules, then our life should look different than it does. Well, this is a… It's a small view of god, like we said, but it's also, if you think about it, a small view of life because honestly, as an eternal soul, whether I'm in this body twenty years, forty years, sixty years, eighty years, you know, a thousand years and today, it's it's not that big of a difference. You know, we look at life like how long we're in this physical body as that's our life. Well, well, we know through scripture that that our souls are eternal. So, when we're done with our body that the soul keeps going. So, I I just don't worry a whole lot about, you know, boy, if I I only died when I was, you know, 50. I died when I was 30. I was 10, whatever. Because

twenty, zero years from the day, I'm still kicking. I'm still going. Right. The body's done. And and it's an eternal thing. So, that's the patience thing you were saying. God, god allows us in our sin. He keeps waiting and waiting a little bit longer to send Christ back because he's he wants one more to repent, one more to get ready, one more to to to have forgiveness of sins so that they can as well have eternal life with him as opposed to eternal life in hell. So that that that's a big deal. Boy, it's gotta be feel weird to be the last guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, the guy right before Jesus comes back. Wouldn't you feel just a hair a hair pompastic that day like, yep. Waiting on Greg. Waiting on old Greg. Greg's here. Send him in. Send Jesus. We got Greg. We were waiting for him. Greg's in. Send Jesus back right now. I'm ready. That's it. Well, I feel sorry for this guy. The author of this website is is he has been, as we've been talking about, you know, shaking his fist at god and he will feel the wrath unless

he repents and turns to Christ and and and god's love. He loves this guy just as much as he loves us. And he's still alive, ain't he? Absolutely. He's, well, as far as we know, we're he's waiting for him to return and and or to come to to Christ for forgiveness and and for eternal life and and I, well, I'd be, that'd wouldn't that be an awesome story? Yeah. To have him get it one day and say, well, wow. Let me let me turn this around 50 proofs there is a god, you know, and we should be praying for him. He doesn't believe in prayer. Yeah. Yeah. So just in case in case this is a particular topic that you're interested in, especially when you look at the Old Testament,

I I can… I would recommend the book, is god of moral monsters by Paul Copen, who is, who has done quite a few, apologetic works. He he had… There's another one when… That's about when god, goes to Starbucks, and it's just about having everyday conversations,

from from biblical worldview. So, but but of those are are pretty good books. So I would I would recommend both of those if you have some, are interested in kind of the the the view of God, especially when you're talking about Old Testament, and and he's kinda wiping through the land of Canaan. That that… That's where there's usually the hang ups. So I I would recommend that book. It's a it's a pretty good one that deals with that, that particular subject. So, that's, that's proof number 45. Next week, we're moving on to proof number 46, and, here's the opening salvo. It's ponder Pascal's wager.

Here's, oh, here we go. You will frequently hear believers make the following rationalization. Suppose you are right. Suppose there is no god. Then when I die as a believer, I have lost nothing. I just die as a man that devote his life to love and morals. But if you, as a nonbeliever, wrong and I am right, you have to spend an eternity in hell. See, I have nothing to lose, but you have everything to lose. I believe I've used that argument. Alright. This argument is best known as Pascal's wager. The problem with this line of reason is that there are thousands of gods that humans have imagined. A person who believes in Allah can make this statement, and so can a person who believes in god, and so can a person who believes in Vishnu. Agreed so far. This multitude of fictional beings show the silliness of the argument. There's no way to know which god to choose because there's no evidence whatsoever indicating that any of them exist. That's a… Anyway, that's the opening salvo for proof number 46. The 45 seem pretty strong. 46 is not starting off on a solid foot for me, because we've heard that we've heard that argument before about that there's so many… Which which one is right, but that that is kinda like saying,

going to a cracker factory and saying, you know, go pick out the graham crackers that are in there. And you say, but there's so many crackers to chew from. How could one of them actually be graham crackers? Like, that graham crackers exist, and that that's the true graham cracker, is not changed simply because there are multiple other types of crackers that may or may not be trying to pass themselves off as graham crackers.

Anyway anyway, that's why you read Paul Copen right there because I refer to crackers. I've never heard it that way. That's why I put it that way, man. It's my apologetic work. Yep. Anyway, we'll we'll take that up next week. If you wanna go back and read more from his website, can go to godsimaginary.com. If you wanna see how those are properly refuted, I would suggest checking elsewhere. But you can go back and listen to, to how we did so by going to lifeinthepath.org and then reading up on the old scripture and seeing how that pans out against it. So, so here's the deal. I played a,

I played bass in a in a worship band at a at a get together in town recently, and it was about a guy who who claimed who spent, had a vision. He said it it wasn't an out of body. It was like a… Yeah. It was a vision. It wasn't like a near death experience. So he didn't die. He wasn't any type of, you know, death situation. Right? It was just a straight up vision. He woke up at 03:00. His wife then found him at 03:23AM, on the floor kinda squirming around, making sounds that she's never, you know, heard him make or anything before.

And he says it it falls under the the classification as a as a vision. And, anyway, he was… He he says that he he was able to see into hell, you know, and explain it and see, you know, what was going on down there and stuff, and eventually was was taken back and basically was told, at the end of the experience by god that the reason for this was is that his own people do not understand hell. He said they… There's there's people that that claim to follow him that don't believe it, and and they don't treat it as a real real place. And so he was… He's being revealed to him so that he can kinda spread the word from it. My initial reaction, guy goes down to… It's it's the same as my initial reaction for people who claim to have gone to heaven,

especially in near death experiences. I I just… There's the scriptural integrity issues there for me. I I go… I'm open to the fact that I… To the possibility that I… Am wrong. But at the moment, I just… The the near death experience that says I I go to heaven and then come back. It doesn't doesn't sit… Doesn't seem to fit the scripture for me. And and and I kinda thought of of hell's the same way again as from a near death experience. But he talked about it as a vision. And so my my initial reaction was this is kinda gonna be a little bit quacky. So, you know, just… My my wife was coming that morning, and I thought, just just be careful what you believe. Just… You know, we'll run this through what we we think and know about scripture,

and then we'll see how we come out with it. So my first, my first lesson, I think, coming out of this is is is to is to keep an open mind just because you have not, been… Experienced something. And there's a lot of things that probably fall in this category. Miracles, for example, just because you've never seen one doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It doesn't mean that God can't do it. God is sovereign. He can do what he wants to do. And and and the… One of the things that kinda changed how I,

listened to this particular presentation, was he said, it's not necessary for you to believe my circumstance or my… You know, that this thing actually happened to me. He goes, we're gonna talk about what scripture says about hell. And the vast majority of the teaching was is he he spent a little bit of time kinda talking about what he saw and stuff because people, you know, that… They're interested in that. But but most of the time was talking about how this… How scripture refers to hell, what it means, why it's a literal hell, that it's a physical place, you know, how people get there,

why it was created, why the the… How it's described, by by a bunch of different folks throughout the bible. And and, you know, of course, that matched up with how… What he saw. And so so that was kind of the event. I would say, in general, the event was was was very interesting to listen to.

I I mean, he didn't misuse scripture or anything. Like, I mean, there was scriptural integrity to how it was discussed. I'm I'm not convinced that that he actually saw the vision. I don't who he thinks he did. But to his point, it doesn't necessarily matter. There was there was a lot of very solid teaching about hell there. You know? It's actually… It's kinda refreshing considering even in the church culture, they're kinda… Some people are kinda, you know, turning their backs on them. And he said that same thing. And one of things he said that that I thought was interesting is is, he was kind of the… To the credibility of the character is, he he didn't, he he was a a very successful real estate guy, like, making $500,000 bucks a year. His wife was also,

very successful making 6 figures a year. So they were a successful couple. He had this vision, and he's like, I I… And he didn't wanna tell anybody. Didn't wanna tell anybody because, like, he he knew it would be open to ridicule and and embarrassment and, like, people would not believe it. And so, like, he told nobody.

He ended up sharing it with, like, one other guy who, know, you told his bible study and invite him, and he said no. And he said no. And he said no. And then he went back, like, after a month or two or three months or something and then shared it. And then for… Then kept getting invited to the place. He said, I've never asked anybody, to to ask me to come. I've never solicited for people to invite me. He said, I I go because people ask me to. In the first seven years, of going around,

he didn't he didn't charge or anything for it. He paid his… They… Him and his wife paid their own way. He used, like, their time off to go to these places and stuff. He he wrote a book. I think he's ruined, like, four books. He did not he did not put the book together like someone… They came to him. He didn't go to them. He didn't… Wasn't trying to make money off the book. And they… And and right now, of course, they they would make significantly less money than they did if they had stated to it. So, I mean, again,

initial reaction of people telling stories like that is I assume they're in there to, like, fleece people and take money. No. You know, I'm just assuming he's telling the truth. Right? It's not like I go… Wouldn't investigate his bank accounts. But, I mean, there's a credibility part of that, to say I I paid my own way. I only go because people ask me. I didn't try to write the book to make money. They approached me that type of thing. So, I I… I'm more open to the possibilities of vision. There's nothing biblically inconsistent about god giving a people a vision for that, especially, you know, in acts that describes, that kind of thing in first Corinthians first chapter. It talks about that a little bit. So, yeah, I I… I'm I'm open to the fact… To the possibility that it might have happened.

But but I guess it says in in general, there are things that I would consider wacky, generally speaking,

that god does not. It's very possible that the things that I think are fringy and and wild and and, like, weird, spiritually weird, that I think are crazy that god does not think are crazy. Right? A a bunch of guys after Pentecost speaking,

everyone able to hear something in their own language. If you tell me that story today, like, boy, that's just wacky. That's wacky stuff right there. Right? That's wacky to me. It's not wacky to god. God does what he wants to do. And so, I'm… Maybe I'm advocating for very, very, very fine line here because, I mean, you can you can open yourself up to stuff that is, like, just plain wacky and is manipulative and is, misrepresents the holy spirit, misrepresents the mission of god, the character of god. But but, to approach something like that, I guess my advice would be

be, just run it through scripture. Right? Like, either scriptural or it's not scriptural. Right? The… If this this guy was was was preaching on stuff, and using scriptural references for hell, like I said, he used them… As far as I could tell, he used them all correctly. He didn't take anything out of context didn't, you know, use something incorrectly. His…

That it wasn't a a near death experience, that it was a a vision. Again, it seems more script… Has more scriptural integrity to me than if if you would claim to be a near death thing. Like, I think there's biblical precedence for that. So, you know, again, I I… I'm not necessarily convinced, but, I I I definitely walked away from the experience differently than than what I thought it was going to be. And and actually got, I I got quite a lot out of the teaching. I thought it was I thought it was very good. So, you know, I had I had a guy, one one of the… A friend of mine sent me a text, yesterday and said, you know, you know, what was the hell event like? Was it full of voodoo and, you know, that kind of thing? And and and that's exactly what I thought walking into him. Like, this is gonna be weird. This gonna be… Now there was some cheesy graphics. I mean, there's flames and stuff, and, like, I I don't know. I I don't know. There was there was a lot of people that were impacted by it, and and I can understand that because they they may not have heard a, even a scriptural representation of hell prior to that point.

But but, anyway, I I guess just just broad thing is is my initial reaction would have been derision, I think. If someone were to ask me that without the context of knowing someone that was gonna go to the event of the churches that helped put it together, I probably would have responded in a negative way. And it it would… Something that was not helpful to not build people up, to not leave opportunity for this being a a god honoring event. And it was. And it was, it was good that way whether I believe that, that vision or not. So, anyway, I I just thought I'd share that because I because I I I saw it, and that would have been my reaction, and it would have been a judgmental, unfair reaction, Borderline or if indeed sinful reaction on my part, to something like that. And that's not to say that there there are not things or scenes that I've seen out there and they're like, it's totally bogus. It's it's not… It doesn't represent god correctly. It's not in his character.

The holy spirit is not a a ghost magic show. He doesn't act like that. He doesn't have a reason to. It doesn't further his kingdom to to, like, freak people out and whip around and, like, it it just… It doesn't. It's not… It's inconsistent with the character of God. So, like, there can be wrong things, but but don't don't necessarily close the door to how god wants to to to communicate things because I because I think that's… It's possible.

So there you go. Whatever. I meant to Google the guy too and and, like, look for the guy that that thought it was totally bogus and, like, read through his reasoning, and I just… I didn't get to it. So maybe do that too. Yeah. Yeah. See what… See see see what his scriptural reference is, why he thinks it's bogus, that kind of thing. But, you know, be a Berean. Run run through scripture. I just thought I'd share that if it was it was interesting. We're back. Thanks for listening to live from the path. Mike, so the question before we split was

we don't seem to be all that successful representing the Christian, the biblical worldview on the… In the mainstream or even the social media on some of the important cultural topics of the day, be it homosexual marriage or abortion, that kind of thing. It's a time to bail from the platform. Yep. Yep. Get out. You can't you can't answer pointed questions like that. Like, it doesn't do you any good because without without the rest of the Bible, the answer to that question, I wouldn't affect me. I wouldn't care about someone's personal opinion based on one piece of information, right? The reason I follow Jesus Christ and the god of the Bible is because the character that's laid out before me in the whole Bible, right? Otherwise, just that one commandment would be, it wouldn't mean anything coming from nobody, right? So, if you don't know god and you don't know Jesus, it don't mean anything to you. It's just another something telling you what to do and so like, if you're going to talk about it on that platform,

I just, I feel like you can't do it. You're trying to piecemeal. You're trying to take a life that's not following Christ. Pick one reason why they're not following Christ and then define them and that's not the deal. The definition is that you're not following Christ And therefore, sin is gonna enter your life at a much greater rate in in all avenues, not even just the one that you're talking about. I say bail from it. It's not worth… It's just… It's it's it's set up to fail. We think, Dan. I I think the gospel set up to fail that the message is, it's just the way it is but the voice,

the church has to have a voice. We have to be the voice of god and we have to. Why don't you talk about Jesus then? That's fine. And not stop talking about that specific issue. But you know, it's just like no Noah in the ark. He just kept telling people over and over again. It's going to rain. It's going to rain. Yep. I don't if he just said it's going to rain. You gotta repent. You gotta repent. God's going to, you know, destroy the world. There's going be big floods. Everybody just laughed at him. Well, he was right. You know, popular popular vote was against him. He was right. Well, but that that's that speaks to the to the ultimate vindication of the message but that doesn't do anything to change the nature of the people that didn't get on. Right. He. Right. Right. But he was still responsible to to preach the truth. He said, repent, repent, repent, and it bore no fruit. He he can't help that. He just has to you. Jesus said, we just plant the seed. You plant the

about Jesus. You don't fight him about one stupid issue. Well, yeah. You can always. So goes Jesus then the dominoes fall. We're we're we're doing it in the name of Jesus. I mean, we're we're just. But I don't think you are. I think most aren't. I think most aren't. Yes. That's very possible. I'm just saying, we're responsible as human beings, as as believers, as followers of Christ to just represent Jesus and whatever it is, the issue in culture, they have to. You tell me what situation has shown up that that you're on

a a pointed talk show talking about that specific issue. How did you even get there? Oh, although they'll make you, they'll they'll they'll do your their best to make you look like a fool and make you look like an idiot, but but they… That's because they don't believe in God at all. It's a it's a worldview thing. They they think we're absolutely idiotic. So… But to this point, so if we're to… If they don't believe in God at all, they don't believe in Jesus Christ, their Lord and savior, have no faith whatsoever in that, How is is supporting the church's point on, you know, gay marriage or abortion going to help them in in a concept of salvation?

How is that gonna bring them to Jesus? We're not against particular sins. We we are are telling people sin leads to hell. I don't care if somebody does. However, if they disobey god, that sends people to hell. But that's not the message you're preaching. You know what I'm saying? So some people aren't. You're right. Nobody is, Dan. Nobody. Oh, I've heard If you're if you're on if you're on a talk show or on a newspaper column and you're point counterpoint… If you're the point counterpoint discussion, it's a waste. And now you can't help how they edit things. You can't help how they cut things down and what they make you, you know… I I I personally wouldn't

do a lot of things if if I know there's gonna be an editor involved because they're they're gonna do it on purpose, you know, to… They're gonna they're gonna make you sound like you say something you didn't say. I I I I guess that's my question, though. Is this like… Is is do you even agree? You know that you can't be properly represented on on situations like that. So do you… I mean, why why bother continuing? I'll I'll I'll give you this example. It's like a lot of those, those those faux…

The, the news and opinion shows. Right? Well, like, when they're interviewing somebody, there's people who I completely disagree with, but I… They get… They did not get a fair shake in interview. Right? Like Right. If what what the the those big… The hosts will do, the guys that control the show, they'll ask a very specific question. You're not allowed to, like, provide any… It's it's… They're simple black and white answers. Okay? You know, you can't provide context. You can't provide examples. You can't provide additional information. And so they're they're basically gonna gonna direct that interview in the way that they want it to go. And so if someone were to call me and say hey we want you to talk about you know gay marriage or whatever. I can't imagine I'd agree to that. Because because here's the thing is I won't get to I won't get to share the gospel in that discussion. Exactly. All all I all all we're gonna do is bicker over more of the the truth. Ground rules. Yeah. Yeah.

Boy, Dan, I feel like you… I feel like I'm just on the complete opposite side than you. I think the answer is no because you're not gonna share the gospel. It's not gonna happen. And then the whole point of you being there is lost. They're gonna wanna argue about gay marriage and abortion, and that's all they're gonna talk about, and they're not gonna let you share the gospel. And so all you've done is show up and try to do a point counterpoint without the god god character behind it, and it's a waste. I don't know. I think he just keep going back. You know, we're here against against sin, against all sin. My sin, your sin, all sin. What… Why is why is the ultimately flashing this thing out in the media the goal anyway? Right? There's a million people on the street to talk to. Why is it… Why does it have to be done in the media as far as the Christians are concerned? Why do we have to even get involved in it? I… Again, that's what I'm asking. Is is that is that actually moving the needle? Are those those big platforms doing anything or, I mean, is is that something where you just say, look, we're not we're not doing this. Yes. We'll handle these things on on

on a person to person level. Yeah. That… That's what I'm asking. I'd say it has moved the needle the other direction. Yeah. It's not just in my life. It's just the the society has moved big time because they, you know, the arts have have… It's all in the arts. Every television show, it's in the media. It's very, you know, controlled. The message they wanna get and I just don't That's why I don't understand why you would still go.

The the message has to be out there. I I don't think we Why through that? Why through that media though? Why can't you just produce a message through how you're doing it now? Why does it have to be on TV? Going into the marketplace where people are listening? I don't see the apostle Paul saying, you know, I don't know if we're going to address, you know, he he seemed to go in the places. He went in the crowds shouting great as Artemaus and and still in there and say, hey. Let me tell you about Jesus. You know, they didn't. They weren't listening.

But he did it. But, yeah, but that was a discussion about Jesus, not a discussion about a certain sin in the book of the Bible. It was idol worship. That was a specific sin. That Paul talked about Christ crucified as a whole. That's not what you're saying. You're saying you're to go up there and The crowd was riled up about their idol worship. That

that is true. The crowd was riled up. They they were they were concerned that Christianity would pull their ability to make money off the idols that they Oh, you said Christianity would, you know, curb your sexual appetite for sex. Those aren't the discussions that go down. You don't talk about… Like like Paul Paul talks about let's see. I… I'm gonna have to get the book as an example. But, like, it's not like the whole the whole book is about idol worship. The whole book is about Christ, and that is not the discussion that happens. Well, but you're not using a similar example. Right? Because because those letters from Paul were two were two churches describing events. Like, there are historic… There's this historical discussion about him going into an an openly,

antagonistic situation, to to continue to preach the gospel even knowing that it's not doing any good. I think that's the general comparison data. Here's the situation that that that I that I envision as being helpful. They ask you, where does god stand on homosexual marriage? And you say, Jesus Christ died for your sins. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you talk about the gospel. If you answer that question specifically, you're not gonna gain it. You're not gonna gain because you're missing the character of god behind it. I I would say, you know, god god has the same view of homosexuality as he has of gossip.

It… It's it's it's sin. That's why he went to the cross. No. I agree, Dan. That's why we're on the same show. Yeah. I I just think you have to be… You'd have to really prepare. You have to really be be in prayer and assume that as in in the book of acts that that I think you put your ego in the back seat and you skip it.

Yeah. You don't do it for ego because they're gonna rip you the shreds. I don't see any reason to do it in lens den. You go into the lion's den. It'll obey a god, Mike. I'm just saying Mike, get off your rear end. Somebody does that interview is because it's it's inflated. Just skip it and do your job. Just skip it. Just don't go. There's no reason to go.

You look look at all… You know, and and they… They've done this over and over again. Look at any well spoken believer out there. They will attack them and make them look like complete fools, and we don't know what really happened. None of us do, you know, except the interviewer and the interviewee. And, you know, and I and I know that's just part of the game. That's what they do. Then just don't be in it.

Just don't be in the game. I I like to have the the voice of of truth, at least the opportunity to have it out there. But it's not because they're just gonna color it as not the voice of truth. They're gonna color it as a crazy hillbilly. I would want a a copy of the interview as well, and so I I could have I love how you think you're gonna one one man take down the whole industry with your with your beforehand contract and your editing privileges. One man is nothing, but but god is everything. He can he can do anything he wants. He can do anything he wants on the on on the streets with you talking to a regular guy instead of getting on the bubble tube and and and playing the show, the puppet show like everybody else. There's no reason to go, Bubba. Yeah. I… So here's… I just don't see. Who are you texting?

Who was it? Was it Pat Robertson? No. Was… Okay. Continue. You need to know. It's my grandmother. I just don't… So I I agree with Mike to a point. I don't see how tackling these hot button issues that we're calling them, these these hot button sins. So the the the gay marriage were the the Yeah. We know what they are. Abortion.

I don't see how tackling those and stating the church's point on those are winning people over to Christ.

And I feel like… And maybe that's not what you would do, but I feel like that's what's being done. Mhmm. People aren't going on saying, okay. So homosexuality is is a sin, but let's break this down into the… This is a god that that loves you with all of his heart, that has set aside some rules for you, sent his son to die for you, and and actually use that as a platform to preach the the love of god and the the repentance that we have and the salvation we have through Christ. They are taking it and using it as a platform to fight society, and that is it. Just on the basis of I'm going to fight society.

I'm going to fight the culture to fight the culture because that's wrong, not using it as a platform to preach the gospel and to preach the words of Christ. Right. Right. I I love my country. I love my culture too much to just let him go to hell without at least having a shot at him. I understand that you love them. I'm… I I don't think you do. Both both of you just like, oh, you're you're you're a sick man. No. Why why not? Why not? You going into a crowd of… So let's let's use this one. You going into a a a homosexual rights rally. Okay. You walk in there and you say, homosexuality

is a sin. I'm okay with that. And you walk away. That's better than TV. Then you just cause an issue. That's better than TV. But… Right. But that you you are you are stating that something is a sin and then leaving it at that. You're not breaking down into actually looking at these people and preaching to them the gospel of Christ. Right. You you wanna be careful who you're talking to. I mean, you'd… You better know what kind of interviewer that person is and if they're have a history being fair. Like, if we could have a conversation, I'd have a conversation.

That… I I mean, that… You're you're being intentionally naive, though, Dan. I mean, like, that doesn't happen. Right? I mean, that's that's why the experience of the things that you see on TV is If it's like a live show, yeah, maybe. But even even a even a live show. Never ever ending scenarios where this is gonna go well. Well, I'm just saying where they're they're gonna… Oh, I know. And I'm not saying it's gonna go well. Say… See, here's what you're saying is you're trying to color it as as you love the culture and and and and you you you don't wanna see them go to hell. I get that. And I don't care if they call me a bigot. I get that. But why is media the answer? Why don't you just do it through people? Why do you have to go on national television I'm not saying run your app. Yeah. I'm not saying it's one or the other. Why can't it be one and the other? Because one of them is useless. One of them is helpful. I just think it's good to have

the voice of god in a public market if it's being asked for. I mean, Paul went into places and and and some… At least they would, like, think about it and go, okay. But they could reject him and and maybe stone him and leave him for dead. But others believe. If you can get two or three or four or five, however many converts

through through or at least get them thinking like, maybe what I thought before possibly isn't what I thought it was. Maybe these guys aren't as hateful as everybody tells me they are. I'd like to go in there and say, you know what? God doesn't hate gay people. I don't hate gay people. I mean, you know, no more than I hate angry people. Anger is a sin. You know, it's just, you know,

it you you just you gotta learn to curb it. That that change either of you two's mind? No. I'm a solid no. I just don't I just don't see it. I think your intention is is fair, and I understand where you're coming from. However, I don't feel like that's what most people that are actually using media are going with.

Don't feel like they're portraying the love of Christ. Well, they want god. Yeah. Yeah. They want ratings. They want yelling. They want judgment. They want people going back and forth and stabbing each other and Yeah. Yeah. So they wouldn't ask me back probably. Signs. Okay. Let let let me let me maybe reframe the discussion then. Is it possible? Do do you believe that negative people can have a negative…

Well, the question is is that people can end up farther away from god for the word of god having been preached in that area. Is it… Is there is there a way that it is… Because right now, we've been debating whether it's helpful. The question is whether it is harmful. Whether putting yourself in a situation where you know that the… That you will not be be able to really preach the gospel or what you say is going to be twisted. You're probably not going to be given a full an open ability to talk

and and and clarify and and describe things in the way that actually reveals the character of god. If you know that that's not going to happen. So, the thing that you want to say that is truth even going to come off that way and not going to be the entire story. Is it more harmful to have even done it? That's that's really the question, Mike. Because Mike's representing the like, you, there's no reason to do it because you you actually, it's not helping and frankly, it's probably harmony. Yeah. I guess that's my my main issue is is that you're not getting the gospel out. You're getting half the gospel out, and half the gospel put in anybody's hands is really dangerous. Right? And so the the… They're they're not gonna let you preach Jesus Christ. They're not gonna let you tell you the whole story. They're gonna ask point counterpoint, and if all you can get out is god is against gays, then that's all they're gonna hear, and they're gonna miss everything else. Right? And so if you're… If you… If if if the gospel isn't gonna be preached, if it's only half the gospel because of the way that's set up, then why even go? You're not preaching the gospel. You're not preaching Jesus Christ. You're telling the the half the story that they want to hear so they can nail you to a wall about it.

So, does it is it a good idea to go somewhere as the person that represents Jesus knowing that they don't want you there for that reason and their… And the whole intention is to pervert what it is that you're saying to misrepresent God and otherwise drive people away from him. Now there's only one caveat there. If you pray on it and God tells you to go, then you go. Otherwise, I I call it a bad idea. If god supersedes and says it's a good idea, then you best be doing it. But

across the board, it just say, I I don't I don't see any benefit to it at all because because you're not preaching the gospel. That's the thing. You're not doing it. You you cannot go on CNN and be the counterpoint on the gay marriage discussion and preach the gospel. It's just flat out not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. So misrepresentation of the gospel and the words of God that we would be saying on these on these shows,

that would be completely morphed and warped into something that is is anti gay for the for the fact that God hates him. Yes. That's absolutely harmful.

Absolutely 100% harmful. People are are very easily turned away from what they think of organized religion or whatever. They they have hardened hearts because of of the the misconceptions

that are caused through… I'm not gonna point names or anything like that. But through certain people that that either intentionally or unintentionally and are distorted through the media have misrepresented. We always like to call the character of God.

And the misrepresentation of the character god can very easily hurt new people that that don't have a solid faith, that don't know anything about god, that don't know the whole Jesus thing, and about our our salvation or prophecy. But they're already being told that that the church hates you and Christians hate you and and they they're going to say god hates you and so they already think that. Wouldn't it be great to say, you know what? Hey, god. God doesn't hate you. Wouldn't it be great to to kind of like tell them something they weren't expecting? They're not going let you get that out. But if we're talking about being edited out and they're they're taking that out of your I I would only do a live thing.

I I don't know. I'd I'd have a hard time doing a recorded thing unless I could see the finished product. And even then, I still wouldn't trust them. I agree with you than that. So let me ask you this then. Is it… Don't you have that same scenario in on a church on any given Sunday? You get up there, you preach the gospel, some guy decides to walk out and tell half the story about what you you said in in your church on that day. People hear what they wanna hear. Yeah, you run that same risk every in anytime the gospel is preached that some guy with an agenda is gonna pervert it and and represent you is is saying one thing or that that god's character is ex even that's not exactly what you did. Now they don't they don't have the, Wait. Yeah. They don't have the media platform to misrepresent it in front of millions, but they can do it in front of dozens. You still take that risk. What's the difference? I can hunt down dozens. You're not going to hunt down dozens. I could. If I knew what was happening, I could. I can't hunt down millions.

That's the the difference between preaching the gospel and not preaching the gospel. My ability to get to them is how you could hunt them down. If they're if they're within 15 pounds of meat, yes. It's… I think I think in general, it's it's it's frustrating. Right? It's frustrating to see something that you believe to be true, and see people miss it so much and have a, you know, hopefully, have a heart for what they're missing in the discussion

and and recognize that, like, it's not a, there's no vindication in victory. There's… It isn't. It's it's… You know, there's there's still a sadness in victory, and it's even worse when you don't win. Right? I mean, when when you've… When the argument has not been won, has not been conceded because you, you've made no ground. You spent a lot of time, and you feel like it didn't make any movement. And sometimes I I feel that way. Some people are just wrong. Some people just misrepresent God's character anyway. They're on there for the wrong reasons saying the wrong things.

They're they're the blowhard. That's how they got on TV. Right? The guy that's willing to spout his mouth. That's not a, it's not a humble mouth. Right? It's just someone who likes to to talk. And so they're the wrong person. And then you have people there who who just get eaten alive because they're the right person with the right heart. They're just not… They're not made to swim in those waters. You know? Savvy. Yeah. And so you… And you can watch that, and I and I think it's just… It's tough to watch, and I and I don't have any hope of it being different. You're the savvy? Dan, you're going in the in the tank? I don't know.

Jesus said to be innocent as doves and and sly as a fox and and True to snakes. You you… True to snake. Please quote the scripture accurately if you're gonna go on television. It's like… And like the Jesus told me. This is why. This is why. We can't go on television. I'm saying bail on it. It's not worth… We don't have an accurate… We don't have a guy. The entire body of Christ does not have one guy that's qualified to do that.

I guarantee it. I've seen even the best man that, in my opinion, does an excellent job rallied. They got right under him. Guy have a high… A good amount of respect for. Go on national TV, buried. Looks like an idiot. We don't have guys. Until Jesus comes back, we don't have a guy qualified. Yep. We're the bride of Christ. We're not the whole show. You know what I'm saying? We're waiting on the bridegroom who tells us what to do.

Alright. Alright. Well, there you go. Here's the life of the path. We're broadcasting from lifeinthepath.org every Monday night at 10:00, you know, or 10:30 or 10:40. Whenever you… When we're fired up, I guess. And, also, we're on Saturdays at 7PM, one ninety nine point three, KTIA. Thanks for hanging out with us. Hey. Make sure you go visit the website during the week and go to lifeinthepath.org.

You see past clips from the show, including full episodes, video, video episodes. You can see, clips from the musical guests we've had on, interviews we've done, and also you can sign up for the podcast. Get that thing delivered right to your door, your digital doorstep, and we'd love to be able to do that for you. So thanks for hanging out here at Life From The Path. Mike, what do you got?

Dear, life from the path. As a father of two teenage daughters, I have a question about couples living together. Do relationships that start this way have a higher failure rate than those that don't? What should be considered when a young girl has the living together question presented to her by a young man? And most important, what can I, as a father, do to help my daughters make an intelligent decision about this other than just load my shotgun?

Laugh out loud. As always, thank you for broadening my wisdom horizon and giving me examples of solid advice from which both my and my family's life have been enriched. That's easy. I've got teenage daughters. If a young man does not respect you

enough to commit to you in marriage but wants to play marriage and have all the benefits of marriage, he is not worth you. He's not worth your time. He's not worth you hanging around. He he is not good enough.

It's that simple. Move. You run. Turn around and run. I don't really have much to add to that. I would agree with that. Yep.

Secular says. I'm not sure. Hang on. It… Okay. Here we go. Sorry. I lost my place. I was distracted by Dan being on television. It depends upon whether the couple living together are engaged to be married and their level of education.

I've had this exact argument here in the last couple days of of education does not equal their ability to love. This is excellent. From what I've read, the higher the level of education, the more stable the couple will be. I'm sorry. This is the advice giver from what I've read? Yeah. From what I've read, the higher level of education, the more stable the couple will be. The question is presented to your daughters. Ideally, you have gotten to know the young man, and the relationship will have developed beyond the casual stage. However, I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of your girls being independent, self supporting, and completing their education before they decide to do this. One of the most common reasons women remain in unhappy marriages relationships is the fear they can't survive on their own. Yep. I really feel the importance of your girls being independent, self supporting, and completing their education before they make a huge mistake. After you've done those three things, it is fine to make the big mistake. Just as long as you're educated and can get your your own work.

So Statistically, those relationships do not last. Yeah. I think it is for couples who choose to move in together prior to marriage, the divorce rate is what I… It was like one and a half times higher and the likelihood of them being in at least two to three live in relationships prior to marriage was like in the sixty to seven percent range. Like, it's it's way higher.

The good question on the chat is, always always always thinking about what if you live together and don't have relations? Won't happen. You know, I've been down that road

in an attempt, and, you know, I'm okay with it.

If you could pull it off, I'm okay with it. But here's the reason that I was told it wasn't gonna work out for me because of the appearance.

And it's… It it falls under the Appearance of evil? Yeah. Appearance of Not even a hint of sexual immorality. Immorality. So it appears to be sexual immorality. So that was the issue. So

I thought that was a line of crap back in the day actually because I said, it's not happening. So what's the problem? I don't care what it appears like. That's not what's going on. People are only seeing what they wanna see. I was told that wasn't the deal. Let me ask you a question about that because, one of the things that the that the Pharisees had a problem with was, Jesus, hanging around with,

sinners. Right? And I think in their in their mind, it would give the appearance of also sinful behavior, but that was acceptable. What's the distinction? What's the difference? He hung out with them and taught them about the kingdom. He didn't, like, live with them.

Mean, like, move in with them. Well, the part… But the… You're you're you're you're intentionally ignoring the the the purpose of the of the question. Right? The purpose of the question is is that you can't do one thing because of the the appearance that you're involved with immoral behavior,

but that was the same that was the same thing that Jesus did. He hung around with people that have and it gave the appearance of immoral behavior. That's what the Pharisees were upset about. So. Well, it wasn't a a a close one on one relationship. It it was. What does it mean? Working out. That's not a biblical distinction. The close one on one relationship of of appearance of immoral behavior. That's not a biblical distinction. That's just something that's coming out your mouth. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that that anybody saw him participating in the activities.

Just like they didn't… Just like they wouldn't see two people living together weren't having sex. Right. But who who… How many people in that setting could possibly not be doing it? I'm not I'm not saying it's That's not the question. Right? What what I'm saying is is like the the the… When we're talking about saying, like, you should not have a hint of… Is it is it specific… Is it specifically because it's sexual immorality? Because that's the only distinction I can see at the moment Yeah. Is is that that Paul is saying that you're not to have a hint of sexual immorality,

and the hint would be is you can cause your brother to stumble by having the appearance that this is fine, and he's someone that otherwise could not handle it. Yeah. And you you have this… But but but Jesus did associate with people, that had immoral lifestyle… Styles, which would have brought up the the possibility that outsiders will look at it and say, he must be doing that because he's hanging around those same people. Now we know better because it's Jesus but I mean, generally speaking, it really is a similar example and so, I guess that that's the question is like, what what is distinction between those two situations? Mhmm.

Mhmm. Mhmm. I have to think that through more. It's something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It is. It's it's hard to define hint. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. And and the thing is is, like, it's obviously a dangerous perspective to try to figure out what that line is and snuggle upon it. Right? That's not the goal. The goal isn't to figure out where the sin exist and then see how close you can get. But that's the deal. Right? Why don't you just marry the woman? Yeah. Why you gotta move it together? Yeah. Now I did it for financial reasons because the house that we wanted was available like now.

And it wasn't most likely gonna be. Now is that a good enough reason to marry somebody and make it appear like you're doing the dirty? Probably not. Right? As far as Jesus stands, maybe we should just avoid that whole thing and wait for Jesus to ride a different house. Yeah. It it really made me mad when I was younger, though. Like, seriously, didn't get it. I felt like you… Why why why are putting the the brakes to me? I I mean, I got a hard talking to about the way I was living, and I'm like, what is the deal? I… You know, it's not happening. You know, we're moving into the house and, you know, whatever.

Now, tell me. Hold on. Hold on. Now listen here. So the good comment said is one is Jesus and we are not. I agree that… I mean, again, that… That's kind of a cheap answer. Right? It's it's it's… The situation is not different. The the the question comes from an outsider's perspective, what people see. They they don't look at it. I look at it and say, Jesus. I mean, Jesus. Just like you capitalize Jesus on the chat. Right? But, like, that that doesn't mean that's not the same way they're necessarily looking at it at that time. Right? The person that could that could be caused to stumble there simply looks at him as a rabbi. Rabbi Jesus. Right? May or may not have believed the son of god. So, like, I I get what you're saying and obviously agree, but but you're not framing the question correctly, I don't think, to say that, to to to to put it that way. Like, the… Really, the question is from an outsider's perspective of just because it's Jesus, doesn't mean that that the behavior

may have caused someone to believe that he's involved with that immoral behavior. Otherwise, there's no reason to care. Right? You… We assume you… What you're doing based upon who you're hanging out with. And there's lessons we learned from Christ about that. But but I just… And and Jesus, like, hung out with, like, disciples. I mean, he periodically attended, you know, a Matthew party type of thing. So it's not like every day he was out partying. Yeah. Come on, everybody. Pass another jug of water. I'll turn it to wine. I mean, that that wasn't his. Yeah. But that's making the distinction between the disciples as just regular old sinners and the other people as ultra sinners when really Jesus hanging out with the sinners. That's everybody. He… That's everybody he hung out with.

Right. I mean, the disciples were in a different place. They were followers of Jesus. The other crew, Jesus was was, you know, allowing… Was introducing them to the kingdom saying, hey. You know, I'm here for forgiveness. I'm here. This is this is a new thing happening here. And and they were very distinctly different different groups. No. And and there is something to be said about, again, if you're comparing the two situations,

you know, one is, you know, you're you're you're spending all of your time in the company of… Or in the presence of a sinful act, or or potentially sinful act, we'll put that way, or, you are just as part of the things that you do on a daily basis, you run into people and you don't flee from them in an attempt to try to witness to them. You know, like… And I think that's the difference between, you know, you were able to,

you know, it's okay to still witness to a prostitute. Right. Now granted, while you're doing that, someone may drive by and think you're soliciting a prostitute. That's very possible. True. You know, so I I don't know. Wear a flag or something. Something that says, I'm I'm not here. I'm here for Jesus purposes. I have often wondered, you know, when Jesus was at these places. Of course, like the Pharisees were looking for a reason to dislike him. So, like, you're a wine bibber. Yeah. You know, but I've often wondered when he was in these settings, what was he doing? Yeah. I'm sure he wasn't the mysterious look like the TV character. I'm sure he wasn't like, you know, dancing around going, you know, like everybody else. He had to be… There had to be something different. People were coming to him wherever he went for for advice, for hope, for for something, and it had to be going on there too. But I I… I've… You know, it's always been curious about that. What what that look like? You know? It'd be kinda because I wouldn't know how to go into a, you know, for one thing about Jesus, I don't have that attraction that that Jesus had. They just, oh, there's another guy. You know?

Yeah. So… Yeah. Well, and and and to to the question on the chat, so it was… Were they hanging with him or just a pass by? If they were with him, they would know better. I I I mean, I I think you would ask that same question on on causing, causing someone to stumble. I suppose it's causing your brother to stumble, it implies a closer relationship. And and it… But would be the thing. It's like, let's say I saw, John Buva was was, committing sin.

Just… It wouldn't cause me to sell because I know better. Right? I'm brother. I I I know better. And I suppose if I wasn't a a Jesus follower, I suppose you could be given the impression. Someone's like, well, I don't love Jesus, but it seems morally acceptable to live with my girlfriend, so I'm a do it. And, you know, I I don't know. I… That seems like a real kind of a… I don't know who you're actually destroying there. But, you know, but but again, there's no reason to draw a line where the sin's at and then try to snuggle up on it. That's dumb. That's not that's not hard for Jesus. Which is why, like, this this type of discussion is not is not so much… You you… You're always you're trying… It's generally defense for one reason or another. Right? You're trying to figure out a ways to the thing that you're doing. Is it bad? I guess, the only thing I I… I'd be careful with is just is watch where your judgment sticks come comes a flying. You know what I'm saying? Like, there there are certain things that we've done in the culture or used to do. No, like, no dancing. Right? Why do we say no dancing? Because when people dance, they get close together. When people get close together, they start touching each other. When people start touching each other, they get a hotel and have sex in it. Right? That's we got four steps back and eliminated pants and dancing.

Right? We do… And that's that's the problem. This is like you you can take that to the extent where, like, you've actually… You've ruined something. And, and so that's probably where the line is. Don't snuggle up next to the sin. Don't beach 50 miles away for something god gracefully gave you to enjoy,

that, you know, you're gonna you're gonna go fully clothed and bonded, near any woman for the rest of your days. Like like TV interviews. I've been fair circle about these TV interviews. You know what, Dan? You do them. You you just you just do them with my blessing. What was the what was the secular advice? That was it. We read it already. Oh. Here we go. One more? Yeah. Dear life in the path. I…

No kidding. I originally bought a used car for myself. It is exotic, and my wife and I really like it. She's upset with me, however, because I won't let her drive it unless I'm in the car. I bought it with the intent for us to enjoy it, but I'm also concerned with keeping it in good shape. Because my wife is unhappy, I'm undecided about whether to keep the car and stick to my guns or sell it and live life simply and unfettered. We share everything, but the car is one thing that needs careful attention. Can you give me some advice?

Wait. I'm sorry. Let me… If I can frame appropriately his predicament here. His option is either to sell the car because he doesn't want his wife to drive it or keep it and stick to his guns with an angry wife that he… With a car that he bought for them to share and enjoy together. Yeah. Is it… I… He's he's given a very narrow set of choices here.

He's really boxed himself in. He's a fool. Yeah. He's a dougist. He needs to give up. You know, kids, here's the thing. Like, you don't buy an exotic car

for cheap. You know what I'm saying? And so he talked to his wife beforehand and said, hon, we're gonna have good times in this car. It's gonna be great. She's like, okay. Sounds alright with me, I guess. You know, if you wanna buy that car. And so he goes and buys a car, he's like, woah. Woah. Woah. I didn't really say you could drive it, hon. Woah. Woah. Woah. I know I I use some of our household money for this thing, but that's my baby. And you cannot be driving it about. I don't know how he didn't anticipate trouble. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, how long has he been a married man? I don't buy I don't buy a soda from the gas station without walking in the door with a soda as well for my wife. You know what I'm saying? I can't sew up with a soda and say, that's the Cadillac of sodas for Mike only. You know? I provide a soda as well for my wife because that's the right thing to do.

He's obviously either, not a genius or a poor married man. Either way, he's taking the car back. I don't under… I don't understand. Hey, baby. I'm gonna pick up a car that we'll both enjoy. Don't go near it. Needs special attention that only I can provide. Like, turning the wheel. Don't make it out like you're some kind of Mario Andretti of regular drivers. You know? Like, only I can drive this special mobile that they sold to everybody.

I mean, seriously, what kind of dude do you think you are? She's been driving for years. Yeah. Now here's the thing. See, he he would have known this. He… He's been married to this woman. If she's a terrible driver, don't buy something that you're afraid that she's going to wreck. Yeah. Right? I mean, get a Volkswagen or, you know, like like one of those old jobs where it's, you know, got got the hatch and everything on the back and then let her drive that around. But, I mean, don't… Yeah. Just don't buy something nice and then tell her if that's the… Like Also, you can take your bravado down a little bit in your driving skills and your ability to baby a car. I mean, seriously, is the is the baby gonna… Is that car gonna take over your wife's position as the breadwinner slash love maker at your place? Because if not, take back the car. You know what I'm saying? Like, who cares? Yeah. Really. If if you're willing to forfeit sex and dinner for the next twenty years, go ahead and keep the car. No. You could eat Long John's in that Maserati all day long. The '86 Maserati with the the fancy vinyl trim. Congratulations,

idiot. Fail. Wow. You're listening to life in the path.

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