Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are

live from the path. Hey. And you're listening live from the path. We're coming to from the Pathway Studios here in Justin Piper. I'm glad to be with you tonight.

Here's the thing. Man, shoot. I realized right now why I wear a hat. With the the way the lights are set up in the studio, I look way bald. What about me? No. You're not you don't reflect well, actually, yeah, you look crappy too. Anyway, you're less alive from Hey. The

So here's the deal. We got a show of deuces tonight. We're doubling up on stuff. Here here's what we got going on. First, I got two questions around people in the church. Why people are leaving the church and why people don't come to the church. Deuces. That's number one. Secondly, two popes. We got two popes style advice. John Buba's got some. Mike Fuss has got some.

Also, we there's two pages about the pope on the CNN belief blog. That's not relevant, but I needed another deuce. Two, that's how many times I have to shame look Dan Hudson who is thinking deuces in an inappropriate manner. I don't even know what you're talking about. Dan looked at me and I couldn't help but laugh. He's like, is that what he's saying, guys? Is that what he's saying, man? Is this bathroom humor? My dog does that.

The gym or radio. And we also got we're gonna do some deer life from the path, at least two of those, to go with our two advertisers. Life from the path is brought to you by Westfield Veterinary Hospital and the Eisenhower team. Make sure to check them both out if you wanna sell a house or take care of your dog. One can do the one thing, but the other cannot. Don't take your dog to Bob Eisenhower. Don't try to sell your house to Westfield.

Do the opposite. It's a fair observation. They can only do what they can do. You're listening to Life and Path. We're here every Monday night at lifeandpath.org at 10:00. Also, you can catch us Saturdays at seven at ninety nine point three KTIA. It's good to have the fellows back in the studio. I was on my lonesome last week. And so here's here so so check this out. I was looking I was listening back to the show. I had to edit it to get it to KTIA.

And talking on your own for two hours, which is what I ended up doing. I'd I'd planned for an hour show, but ended up talking for two hours. And because I'm a blowhard. And can I like the sound of this? I'll keep going. You could really It's really going good. You could really narrow in on some of your your vocal

proclivity. Like, I got so it's I got so embarrassed. I was editing this thing in a coffee shop, and and it was some of these things that I do with my voice are so asinine. Like, every once in a while, I'll just go I just, like, take my tongue and bash against the top of my mouth. I mean, I can you can see it. I was looking at the waves when I was editing the audio, and I could see it, like, every thirty seconds or so. There it is. Something, something, something, something, something. I'm like, boy, that's this show is terrible.

That's a total amager about making weird, funky noises with his mouth behind the microphone, and I'm the host. It could be a lot worse than that. It was it's all the show is bad. It's not a good show. Anyway. Thanks for listening anyway. I might be the only one that gets the benefit, because I listen to the podcast at least three times

three times after, after we do the show. I download the podcast and I listen to it. And so I actually have a pretty good mental checklist on all the things that, that, the people involved with the show tend to do, you know, to fill time or, or like the sayings that they always use or, proclivities that they tend to have. And I actually knew that about about Ben ahead of time. And I have grace for that. Nobody nobody tells me anything. No. I didn't tell you nothing. I usually just tend to look at Buva and and and say, look, you repeated the same thing six times. Gearing up for your point. And then, and then generally, you won't fix it anyway. So it really wasn't even worth, bringing up. You know what I'm saying? That's hurtful, but I appreciate it. That sounds like buvoir. Here's what I always do. I always go, you know what I'm saying? I use the phrase, you know what I'm saying? Or that's what I'm talking about. Like some kind of eighties hipster. I know that I do to be to be 100% honest Yeah. Quite a bit. To be, to be 50% honest. To be, like, 87% honest. Hey. This is fun. How how is Dan terrible? I don't I don't think I really am. Yeah. Dan

Dan Dan doesn't have, like, an odd grammar, you know, thing or or or like a weird vocal tick, but he will he will chime in with nothing to say. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't think I understand what you're saying at all. They'll say, I'm not really sure. And then there'll be a pause, and they'll be like, I don't know where I was going with that. And then he'll back away. So he's actually pretty straightforward. He opens his mouth intentionally, and he closes it intentionally. But, I you know, the ammo in the gun is not quite is not quite ready. Sometimes I shoot blanks. You know? He pulls the trigger, he's like, I'm I wasn't ready.

Alright. Could have been good if I had something to say. Totally forgot to aim on that one. There you go. Well, now you know what to look for. When things go poorly in the show, we warned you ahead of time. Alright. Here's here's the question. But there there was I did it again. There was a there was an article on the CNN belief blog about why people are leaving the church. Here's what I don't care. I don't care what this person's reasons are that they think people are leaving the church. I'm interested of what the fellows in this room think, and I want you to answer think about two questions. And this has to be examples from your daily interaction with people. I don't want you hypothesizing a Socratic style about what you think goes on in the world. Alright? Can people that you have interacted with, talked with,

heard them say things, whatever, a, why are people leaving the church? And b, why why don't people go to the church? Can I name names? Use use pseudonyms of African and all. Here's the deal. Fan buds and servants are. I'd say my first idea is is, the church isn't doing a I don't know how to say this because I was it goes back to personal responsibility, but right? Like they're they're not doing a good job,

getting genuine relationship with Christ built and surrounding like, the people in the church generally don't have a genuine relationship with Christ either. And so, like, I think

eventually shows, and people just bail. You know, like, I've talked to a guy, and and he'll he throws up three or four flags of of stupid reasons to leave a church. Right? Like, the the the message is awesome, but I really don't dig on the worship service. Or and his offside was because his he was going to a church and the church split. Yeah. And he couldn't decide which one to go to. The good worship pastor apparently went one place, and the good speaker went to the other. Ain't that always the deal? You know, there's never a package.

So so he went to both, and he couldn't sit through either one. He's like, I I I don't like the worship going on over here, but I I love the speaking. And I don't like the speaking over here, but the worship, you know, I really enjoy it. And and and eventually, he came down to, well, most of my friends still go to x church, so we went there for a while, eventually, we just stopped going. You know? But is that is that the church's fault?

To some extent, yeah, it is. Whatever split that caused that church to split in the first place was probably stupid. You know I'm saying? It was man made and dumb. But on the other hand, you know, did did he pray and ask God to, you know, where he should be, where he can be serving people, and where he can be served. I doubt it. You know? So I I like the I like the thought that you can't you can't attend the Lord's service because you don't care for the worship music. Seriously, think of the TV shows that you watch. Right? There's a you got an hour long program. There's forty minutes of TV, twenty minutes of commercial. You're willing to sit through twenty minutes of commercials of things you do not wanna buy, and that are causing to take you away from the thing that you really want, but you still sit through it every week to watch the show. You go to church to worship the almighty God in heaven, and you say, I can't stay here for this crap. There's the music is not to be like There's three songs of junk. I just I can't I can't take it. You sang that song last week. I mean, I I hope you find something you enjoy, but, like, can is that really a barrier? I don't think so. Well, that that's the thing is I think his discussion on worship style is, he just doesn't like the songs. Like, not that that, that the lord isn't being, preached or the gospel isn't being told, and the songs aren't aren't songs that glorify God. You're just you're just not interested in, you know, the type of music they're playing. And and that

that that's a that's a a seeker it's a seeker friendly church style of, you know, we play this style of of of music. And and while it it it defines generally, the age group and the demographic of people that go to your church, that's true because people will drift towards certain music styles. And so, you know, as a church, can plan for that and say, we're gonna do this music style because God has called us to reach this demographic. That's perfectly fine and acceptable. But on the other hand, if, like, God has called you, to be around these people and serve these people and you don't like, you know, How Great Is Our God by Chris Tomlin, I who gives a rip? God told you to go there, you know? God does it's not like Paul likes getting beaten ahead, but he still goes. You don't know why he left Thessalonica. I don't know. They got too much dulcimer. Yes. I'm out. Every time I come in here, it's mandolin, mandolin, mandolin. You know, we we are not called to a worship style. We are called to community,

And and and we have reversed everything. The the the American church has turned everything upside down. We're not making disciples. We're entertaining people. We we're trying to make them happy. We're trying to play games. We're trying to to to fool around. So we're not making disciples or followers of Jesus Christ. And because of that, at some point, when some slight discomfort happens, they leave. And that's why they're leaving. They're not following Jesus. They're following their own selfish passions in life. They're not followers of Jesus Christ. Which which I think is why you end up arguing about about foolish things. Yeah. You you because if it's not

if you're there for Jesus and people are preaching Jesus, everything becomes peripheral. And Yeah. Here's the deal. People have we've misunderstood the church as a place for you to be served. Exactly. Right. Hey, they're here they're here to serve me. To a certain extent, we've catered to that. The problem is is the things, the steps that the church has taken to try to reach out to people that don't don't love Jesus are being soaked up by people that claim to love Jesus, and are kinda like juice blocking everybody else from being able to to be served, so they can kinda sit there and hang out and have the experience. That that's it. Every Sunday, it's like that what what do they call it? Black Friday or whatever that that day that day after Thanksgiving everybody goes shopping and they they they hoard into the stores to grab the thing they want. That's what we're doing within the church. People who call themselves Christians are are are, like you say, pushing even the the the nonbelievers out because, you know, they're fighting over what they want. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna sit in this seat. I'm gonna have this kind of music and I'm gonna have that type of programming, and my kids need a clown, and and we need basketball hoops, and, you know, and whatever. And it's like, we're not even inviting the non believer in to hear Jesus. We're maybe inviting them in to be entertained. Yeah. And then they've they've learned to be a consumer. And so what we mean is is is we made consumers not disciples.

I had a couple of conversations with one particular fella who he he for like a solid week, he was coming into my room and sitting on my couch and we we had talks way into the early early morning about just this what you described Yep. Is what the church is doing. That's why he left. He didn't like the whole church system. Yeah. So he left and he started his own, like, house church to to try and make disciples. But then it ended up him being,

like, a a bunch of dudes just sitting around, like, confessing their sins to one another and not making disciples either. Yeah. Yeah. You know, could see that. You know, that that's and maybe that's the low bar that gets set actually in in in some of the way that we promote Christianity today. Like, we always get to the confession and never the repentance. You know, like like, Jesus makes makes it pretty clear, you know, when when he says, repent and get baptized. Go make disciples. Like, in that order, do those things. Get moving. You know what I'm saying? And so when

people generally like, I I I sit around a bunch of Christians and and they will repent or they will confess quickly. But they won't change it. Yeah. And they I'm a dirty rat. I'm terrible. Right. Oh, I can't believe I did this again. Like, the confession is the new repent. Like, back in the day, repent was the, hey, repent. And now confession is the new hip repent where you don't really have to change. You can just say, yeah, boy, that that that crap happened to me again. Satan getting after me. I was sin. Well, you think that's bad. Should hear what I do. Yeah. Don't judge me. You know, we're the same guy. Everybody sins. Everybody sins. You know, don't judge me now. Don't hold me accountable for me, you know, in my walk with Jesus. And so, like, confession is the new repentance and repentance doesn't really happen. So

the problem is is like, let's do this. Like, has everyone here talked to somebody that has left the church? What like, the the last guy that you talked to that has left the church, why? What what did they say? Dan? Do you remember? You know, no. I don't. Nathaniel?

He said he moved to a different town and just stopped going. Just did not return? Yes. Like, he he was going to a church in the town he was living in, and then he moved to a new town and then just didn't seek out a new church. I think the last guy I talked to here the last couple weeks, the reason he stopped going to church was, he didn't like the, it it it was the same guy with the with the worship and the sermon guy. But he didn't like the the politics of it. Seemed clicky and, unnecessary.

The last person I talked to said that it was an issue of the intolerance of God, which I immediately laughed at. To no offense to this person. Intolerantly? See, here's the deal. I think that's a fair reason to leave a church. I think they're wrong. It's the intolerance. But I get that. Right. That I understand. Hey, I see what God is saying and I disagree with it. I'm out of here. At least you're soaking it in correctly. Yeah. And and pull and probably they're teaching the truth there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want a lord. I want a god made in my own image. Yeah. That's Laodicea style. Right? Like, either you're hot or cold, but, I think the people that that me and Nathaniel are describing are lukewarm. The guy that bolted at a at a Spikenhauser's church is, you know, the guy that he talked to was like, I'm hot against, you know. Yeah. The the whole concept was with

the pop the media that's pushing out the the face of the church nowadays, and you've got, you know, the big names in the church nowadays, people think that that God is moving away and is completely intolerant of all these people, and they want to stick with their lifestyles. And because someone else is is misrepresented in the eyes of, what a church says they believe, which isn't the heart of God,

people see that, and then they think that God is intolerant to that person. And they think that, well, obviously, this church says that, so they're right. And God hates that person too. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. If there's anyone that's tolerant in this entire universe, it's God. He has more tolerance for us than we have tolerance for each other. Yet, we are sitting here fighting God as a people, as a society, saying that we want tolerance for people. Guess what? We all mess up, and God's got tolerance for it all. And it's absolutely ridiculous.

God hates that sin, but he still loves you no matter what. And it's absolutely ridiculous. And I called that out on that person. I said, hey, you know, I understand where you're coming from. I see where you can get that that flavor in your mouth of of what the church does, because you see all these these things where people are are intolerant for for homosexuals, or people are intolerant intolerant for women who were raped and then had an abortion, or people are intolerant of people who don't have as much money as you, or if they look a certain way, or if they are not what you fit into Generally intolerant. Yeah. Right. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I rebuttled

against him and and they didn't like my answer. But Be prepared for my rebuttal against you. I will surround you with my rebuttal. The fact of the matter is if if you're gonna misrepresent the heart of God, guess what? You're gonna get my answer. Well, here's the deal. You're in a world full of sinners. They're all gonna misrepresent the heart of God at one point or another. The the question is is is what is where what is the heart of God? Not how poorly do the people represent it? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, no. I understand that entirely. I get where you're coming from and that's what I tried to show with what I was saying. Right.

Well, yeah. That's what wanna do. Fair enough. I I think the the last person that I knew that left the church, just was would didn't like the teaching. They wanted it to be a different flavor. I think that's a good reason to leave, actually. Well, it depends on what it is. Well, it depends on if you want it to be, against the Bible.

No. But frankly, it's not. Right? Like, it's like the wolf standing up saying he's the wolf and then excusing himself. That's what you want. If he's like, hey, I don't want I I hear your current teaching. I want it to be something that is not that flavor and and and different than the Bible prescribes. That's exact it's not the wolf with sheep closing. It's the wolf going, I'm the wolf. I'm gonna go. That's awesome. See you. That's a good reason to go. Thank you for self identifying and leaving. And you saved me a lot of hassle and trouble later, you know. Like I it pretty much made the leadership's job easier. Okay. So that's why that's why the general perspective on people left the church, what why why don't why aren't people coming? Or is it even true that people aren't coming? I think that there's a broad thought that people are leaving the church and people aren't coming. Is that true?

I get I I mean, the I I I don't I wouldn't know the hard facts of it, obviously. Right? But, I mean, you can go to, five different surveys and get five different answers. You know? Like, I can read a survey that says we're still 85% Christian nation. I don't believe that's true. And I get same you know, a different guy that says, hey, we're down in the in the in the 30% toilet of people are exiting the church left and right. I don't know. I don't it depends on and frankly, it depends on what what church they're leaving, you know. Maybe they should be leaving that one. I don't know. I I think there's I wonder too when we talk about people leaving churches. I think a lot of churches are trading Christians around. We're just, like, moving them about. I I there's not a plus or minus. The people are just heading out and going somewhere else and checking stuff around. It goes back to the consumer thing. They go to the cool church for the for the week and then, a few years later, a different church pops up, it's cool. Do you think the cool church has the same discussion, though? We should find the cool church. Like, we're not the like, obviously, we're not the cool church. Right? But like Why they care? We should have the cool church guy come in. And like, he's like, yeah, we're always losing people to the non cool churches. You know, people that wanna serve.

Frankly, I'm just I'm tired of it. And and I suppose I suppose the big fail in all that, right, is that never creates community. People Right. People will claim that they can't get community. But when you're a consumer, you won't ever be in community because you're in it for the wrong reasons. We're not committed to each other. We're committed to being served. That's right. Yeah. And I heard I heard some guy, explain it one time. He said, you know, we say that we want community, but we don't. He said, are you willing for anybody in your church to come up and rebuke you to your face? Like, the and and could you take that without being insulted in your heart or be prideful about it? Could somebody from your church come up and say, look man, and and like, and give you the business? Oh. And could could you hold it? Oh. And I think I think the point there is is like, if that's a no, then you're not really seeking community. Crap. Right? You you got a couple of guys and you're like, well Yeah. I could take a good rebuke from maybe 10% of my church. And some of that is because you trust those guys. Right? Yeah. Because you're the you feel like the you know where the rebuke is coming from. But the question is, like, broad community. What what why are you keeping out the broad community? What is it about 30 people? I'm putting up airs. You know what I'm putting up airs? I I I lead their I help lead their children in youth group. I need them to think a certain way about me. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's a that's that's true for me. And that I mean, I just realized I do it now. But but and and maybe that's something I need to I don't know that I do it on purpose, but I I'm subliminally I do. You know, I'm like, I I need you to to trust me in this aspect. And you know why? It's because for the same reason that, like, if I knew someone was leading my kids or running a certain ministry,

if I didn't feel a certain way about them, I I would be like, I I, you know, I I don't trust you. Right? Like and it's because my standard of what a Christian is supposed to look like is is stupid. It's it's not it's not even plausible. Well, right. Because if you think about it, think about what's true. Right? There's I don't care where you go to church. Right? It's being led by sinner.

A big one. And your kids ministry, sinners, full of them. Yep. They're everywhere. They're teaching your kids. And like like, that's where all all these people are that. That's what they are, but we don't wanna hear about it. And it's not it's not biblically consistent that, like, anybody's going up and, like, rebuking you all over the place in public. That's not how the Bible says to handle those types of things. But but I think the question is is, like, we like to limit our close our close people that we'll accept a rebuke from as as a as a protection against shame. You know, here's the thing though. It's like, I don't I think that I would appreciate more people doing it. And and this might just be the way that I'm wired, but that's kind of half the reason I was fired up today anyway. I thought, because I I did this last it was Sunday, the Sunday before last. I was listening to a sermon and write, like, I I've I've Dan has preached on this before and I've listened to a whole, another couple of preachers, preach on this before and they just made a slight,

comment like, be careful your your your religious tendencies to hear the message and think this applies to somebody else. You know, there's someone else that this applies to and skip past yourself. Right? And like, I took that to heart because I sometimes and I'm like, I've got to make sure that's not happening. Until, like, a couple Sundays ago, I was thinking about it because I looked around the room and I'm like, where is so and so? Where where are they at? Why I'm I'm missing like five in my mental checklist of people I look for at church. Where are these people at? And I thought, oh, you're religious. Mike, stop that. And then I thought, you know, wait a minute. I'm not I don't I wanna I don't wanna find these five people so they can be more like me. I wanna find these five people because they're missing out on their relationship with Jesus and their community with their church family. That's why I care. It's not because I wanna point at them and say, hey, I'm disappointed in you. Mike Foose doesn't like the way you're living. I wanna know why you're not here because you're this is where I know you're currently being fed. This is where I know you're making connections with Jesus Christ because I know you. Right? That's why I wanna know where you're at. Yeah. And and, like, I have taken I have backed off the gospel and I have backed off talking to people in our church family because of that for two, three years now. Right? I didn't wanna be that guy that's like, hey, I've been kinda noticing blah blah blah.

What's going on? You know what I'm saying? And I didn't wanna be that guy because I because I always took that as grace. You know, Christ has grace for me. I need to have grace for you. Well, sooner or later, that turns into apathy for you. Like, I don't really care give a crap what you're doing. Right? I talked to a couple a couple fellas this Sunday, and and and I can't remember what they were talking about. They're like, got a job. I'm like, great. That's great. You know, blah blah blah blah blah. And and and they're they were telling me all about their job. And I said, sounds like you work seven days a week. He said, yeah. And I said, when do you Sabbath? And they started looking around. And I thought,

crap. Am I being religious, Mike, here? Because the truth of the matter is you should be Sabbathing. Right? Do I am I wrong? Am I am I wrong to say this to a guy? I'm sure he's excited because he have a job. They're good they're good guys. I love them. But they're not Sabbathing. That's a problem. Right? True. So but I feel like a religious jerk. You know what I'm saying? Like because I sin. I do all the time. And I'm standing up to a guy going, hey, I'm noticing just based on the story you're telling me, feel like you should be Sabbathing. Does anybody do that to me? I believe they call it exhortation.

Yeah. I but that's We do that here. Exhorting. But that's the thing. No one no one ever does that to me. Like, I have I I my LTG guys do that to me. The three guys I surround myself to I basically hired them to yell at me. Right? I meet them on purpose knowing they're gonna say, hey, you gotta do better. You know what saying? That's their job. But, like, not that I want everybody speaking to my own life, but, man, I would I would really appreciate if you really care for me that you come up and say, hey, this is a problem. Yeah. It's a problem, man. And but but you know how much you know much flack I get for that? You know what I'm saying? Do you know how much kickback I get when I do it because I'm just a judgmental jerk? That's what I'm saying. It's it's a true community thing. Like, we we really don't want that. Most people do not want other people kinda doing that in their life, whether it's true, especially if it's true. Especially if it's true, it's a problem. We don't wanna hear that stuff. And, you know, along those same lines, think about church discipline. How

many church churches are doing any kind of church discipline? You know, most of it's because no one would submit to it. No. They would just leave. But you know, it's like, hey, hey, you know, what are you gonna bring me in front of the church? I just won't show up because I don't give a crap. Yeah. Why would they show up for that? They'll bail anyway. I do that. And I thought, you know, that that hit me that hit me in the face because I thought, church discipline, what would it take for me to actually do that? The biblically, it's not much. No. You go to a guy, he refuses, and then you bring him up, like, that and then and then if you won't do it, you, you know That's it. You you boot him in in hopes that that helps in his restoration. That's a that's actually a loving thing to do. But people treat church discipline what the same reason you discipline your kids. It's out of love for restoration and to be and to learn.

And and we we are cowardly in how we handle that in the church, and I'm in that bucket. I don't I can't imagine what it would take for me to actually take that step. It's I'm probably a coward there. And it it it's the same thing. It's a community thing. Well, don't get too much up in your business. You know, I don't want to because what are you gonna do? That you know, he's not gonna submit to it. And and I it's like people everyone's had that time where you had your if you have kids, and you dealt with your kid and they looked at you. And they were just, like, totally defined. They're like, I don't care. Do what you're gonna do. I don't care. And and I think that's kinda how you feel if you're a church disciplined guy and you look out out at your congregation and say, hey, we're gonna I'm gonna send a guy to talk to you. We'll take a brother. And if you refuse, we're gonna put it up for the church so everyone will know, you know. And and so you can be restored. And they're like, okay. Oh, they'd hit the blogosphere like that. We're just gonna You'd be on the Facebook the next day and this church is heretical and this church has no grace and this church does this and they don't really care for people and they're all all they care about is them blah blah blah blah blah. That's exactly what would happen. Bunch of big bullied like like three testicle guys coming up. Yeah. They just wanna bully me. Fundamentalist, you know, you guys are you guys are just too strict and ridiculous and we're not gonna put up with it. But what does that show? That shows that I don't care enough about you to follow the precepts the Bible set out about this. I don't know. It's here's here's the was that's what I was thinking about on my way in. I thought, you know, where where does these I just keep running across these stories and and and, like, and my people are just having a freaking rough time. They're having a rough time and it and it almost boils down to a a it's it's a fear of man. It's idolatry. Right? Like, more more people

are more afraid of hurting somebody's feelings than they are of, you know, God's call for you to go make disciples. Do you know what I'm saying? They will do anything to avoid that awkward conversation where you look at a guy and say, I'm very happy for you. I'm glad your job's going well. When are you Sabbathing? I'll wait.

And then they don't wanna answer because they're not. Right? And, like, by that time, most people smile and go, come on, dude. You know that's the thing. Keep that in mind, buddy. Oh, chip off the old block. You just kinda keep that in mind. Try squeeze that Sabbath? God wants you to have a Sabbath. Instead, like, are you the guy that puts your foot your your your foot in your boots and stares at the guy Yeah. And says, no, seriously. When do you Sabbath? God gave it to you. When when does it happen? Right? That's an awkward minute. It really is. I've done it. It's awkward. It is very awkward. And so but but, like, are you are you doing them favor by giving them the smile and the attaboy and I got grace for your continued

sin, really? Do do I personally feel like whatever pick pick your topic. Right? But do I personally feel like the Sabbath is a big deal? I I usually usually don't. Don't. But God says it is. Right? And I had to change my heart about that. And so I feel like I'm doing you a disservice by letting you continue on the way that you are. I I don't know. I I feel like we backed down so fast in fear that people are gonna think differently of you. But like, I mean, look at what you're trading though. Are you trading your current persona? Look, you know what? Grace and I just read through this tonight. Where God says, I was explaining it to her where God says, you know, you're gonna have to take up your cross and follow me. And whoever wants his life, is gonna lose it. And whoever will lose his life from me is gonna keep it, is gonna gain it. Right? That's what that verse is about. Right? Like like you are are you so afraid of what you've built up and and and what you have and what you consider to be your persona, your character, your personality,

that you won't lose that for the gain of Christ and the joy of other people. Right? It it because you're gonna say, hey, blah blah blah blah blah. Let's talk about Jesus for a minute. They go, great. It's that it's that Jesus dude again. Fine. You know, Foose, we're not gonna talk about that. Okay. From now on, I'm labeled the crazy Jesus man. I just gave up my life as just the regular guy that can sit around and talk about that junk. And I traded it in for crazy Jesus man. That's the deal. You got a deal. I'll do it again too. Probably tomorrow. You know I'm saying? Or the next time, you decide you're gonna give me the opportunity to speak again. It's it's it's it's a hard word. But I tell you what, I I think that's I think that's where most of the most of the Christian population is missing joy. Right? Like, people always like, the the the joy in the Lord is my strength. Right? Like, I I give all my my glory to God and they'll and they'll worship and they'll praise and they'll thank God and they'll pray every day. And they never give the responsibility for their joy over to Jesus. They never trust God with their joy. That if Jesus says, hey, if you love me, you'll follow my commandments. And then you do it and then joy happens. You always see you're kinda moving that way towards following Christ's commandments, and then you get to a rough spot where you're like, I I don't know if I trust you with that. I'll I'll handle my own joy from here. And most people never get to the point where they actually let Jesus produce the joy. They produce some kinda half joy that they can come up with, which is a Mike sized joy. That's not Jesus' joy. That's my size. And most people miss out on true joy just because of that. I do that. They're I'll only follow Christ so far and then I'm like, I feel like you're gonna put me in a sticky situation.

I feel like you're taking most of my budget. I don't I don't wanna work there where you're telling me to go to work. I'm out. I'll do what I want. I don't wanna give you every Wednesday night. I got stuff to do on a Wednesday night. I didn't go in to teach no youth. You know what I'm saying? Like, how much how much how much of of of the joy that God has laid out for you are you taken back and saying, I'm not gonna give you, you know, Potter. I can I've seen you make clay before, but I feel like I can figure out clay. I got YouTube. I got Buddy thing, you know. I can make something lame. You come up with an ashtray that you made in third grade. It stinks. I lost you just a little bit ago. So probably

forty five seconds is gone. Because of the ashtray thing? Yeah. It just got me. Powder clay. I mean, I I I get it kinda. Yeah. So so are we that's not compelling for the outside world. So what is let me ask you this. What what is it that that what are we trying to do in the church that's failing then? I mean, like, are people coming and they're like, I I if I were gonna if I need a social club, there are places that are more hip than you. If I need a bunch of people to to hang around that are noncommitted to something, there's a bar down the street. Hey, are we simply not representing what the church is supposed to be? And that means it doesn't actually end up building long term relationships, long term community with people. We're trying to look more like a culture that they're choosing not to engage in. That's how they came to the church. Because, like, if they wanted the culture, they wouldn't come to the church building. There's plenty of culture to go out and get. There's plenty of social clubs to be a part of. There's plenty of bars. There's plenty of friends. There's plenty of other activities going on. There's plenty of places to get donuts and have other people watch your kids. So like, if they're coming to church and we're trying to reflect the culture that they specifically chose not to go to that Sunday morning,

maybe that's I mean, that's the big fail. That's the big fails. We're trying to look like a place that that they came to church looking for something. We gave them the thing that they could have gotten anywhere. I think when it comes down to the fact that the I believe, yes, there's there's some things that we're doing wrong in the church. I agree entirely with Dan when it comes to the consumer Christian.

I don't think that that's a big issue when it comes to people not coming to the church. Okay. I think a big issue with people not coming to the church is the fact that as a society, as a people right now, we have this ridiculous notion that we are entitled to everything in the world. We are entitled to have everything, we are entitled to to control everything in our life. We choose our destiny. We choose our jobs. We choose where we live. We choose where we eat. And when you get down past the the, hey, come on into Jesus, to the, if you want to be a sincere follower of Christ,

you give it all up. You don't have any of that. That is not yours. You are to give every bit of yourself to Christ, and that scares the crap out of a lot of people. I think that is something that so many people refuse to do. I do that. And

I do it myself. Even Christians that are in the church, we find ourselves that it's easy to come to church on a Sunday morning. I am a hypocrite right now because I've done that for years. It's easy to come to church on a Sunday morning, eat a doughnut, listen to a message, and say, hey, God. You got me to church this week. Have a great week. I'll see you next Sunday. We refuse to give up, to to take up our cross on a daily basis. If you were to be a follower of me, will take up your cross. You know, we don't do it.

And especially, we people in the church, a lot of us know that wholeheartedly, and the people that are outside of the church, they don't have the relationship to ever wanna do that. So so I find that to be a completely legitimate reason. Right? You ask, you go to church, you hear what God is asking, what it actually means to have a Lord, and you say no thanks. That makes sense to me. I get that one. Oh, I completely hear But that doesn't mean it's not You turn around and chuck. I I don't feel like people are getting that that much of an understanding. I I think they're either ambivalent

where where they frankly, I think there's a lot of folks that that simply don't don't even feel a need to go to check it out. There's no there's nothing compelling them in there to say, hey, they're offering me something because if if you're not if you don't know enough yeah. Yeah. I Now hold on. Are are you talking about people that that claim to know Jesus and just don't attend church or non believers? Anybody. Either way. Yeah. From both sides. Well, because I think there's a strong distinction between the two. Like,

some people feel like like they can have a relationship with Christ and not have to go to church. Right? Like they're not interested in the in the politics and the and whatever and and the stuff that happens at a church. They're not interested in being in community. And, some of that can be can be attested to. The Bible speaks nothing of a guy that that lives for Christ outside of the community of of his bride. Right? Like, I mean, in the multiple examples that he's given, about the return of, of Christ, he refers to the church as his bride. Not many brides. Not a thousand brides, one bride. Right? You're a collective body of Christ. And and I I I know I can think of three dudes right off top of my head that think they they they don't have to go to church because they don't want to deal with the the mess and the and the and the responsibility. And that's exactly what it is. Right? Like, it's mess. A and and Jesus did not just leave us to clean it up on our own. You know, he stayed he stayed and sent the Holy Spirit for us to help help keep his bride clean and and ready for him when he comes back. But, like,

there there's there's many people that just think they just don't wanna get involved with it, cause they don't want the responsibility and want the hassle. Well, yeah. Absolutely. I've heard the word spiritual more times in the last year than I've ever heard in my entire life. The whole concept of, I believe in God. Well, when was the last time I went to church? Oh, I don't really worry about church. You know, don't I read my bible. It's just me and Jesus. It's just me and God. You know, I I have a relationship with God. Do you believe in God? Yeah. I believe in our God. I'm spiritual.

I believe in a lot of stuff. Believe that That's the red flag, you know. Spiritual, Exactly. The word spiritual is is is a word that's used in society as a get out of jail free card. I'm spiritual. I don't need to have a relationship with the God that you believe is the creator of this universe. I'm spiritual.

You know, I believe in a lot of them. It's okay. And that is just this this scapegoat that has been created for so many people to use of, I don't need to go to church. I'm spiritual. Nathaniel, do you run into this a lot in the in the the college age group? You know, people that are bailing from the church just to, you know, just kind of live at their own one on one and mono missions or something? I don't know. Most of the people I know from college are

involved in some sort of church activity. Sorry. He goes to Christian college. Yeah. I was gonna say that's that's not a good Like most of them are there to, learn how to, like, work at a church.

Well, kinda like the church. That's what we need, more jobs. I know. Right? Yeah. The church can be a job creator. There you go. Yeah. I think we've actually talked about this this fact before on the show is that I believe, you know, people that are Nathaniel and my age, believe that they are too young to be followers of Christ. You know, I'll do that when I'm when I have a family. When I'm getting ready to marry someone, I'll start going to church. Or when I have a daughter or a son, I'll start going to church. But I'm in college or I'm in high school now, you know, I've gone to church before. I went to youth group a couple times in high school. I don't need to have that relationship.

I'm just not that age. You know, that might be something they teach in the public school system. Because my daughter, I told her that she you know, we'll have a quick sidebar conversation after this, but I told my daughter, that she needed to, that because she she wanted to pray for dinner. And I said, it's Ella's turn to pray. And then she got mad. She goes, you always let Ella pray. You never let me pray. And I thought, well, this is a nice problem to have. Children are battling for prayer time. It's cool. And I said, hon, you realize that you don't have to pray with daddy or mama. You could you could pray on your own, you know, anytime you want. You can just, you know, have a have a talk with God. And she goes, oh, it's but you don't understand. I don't have that much time to pray. I gotta learn my math. And I said, what? It's summer vacation.

She's like, I gotta Wow. They said they have to do it at school. You gotta learn your math, and I just don't know that I can learn my math, and and I just don't have that much time to pray. I'm like, public school? You gotta be kidding me. Seriously, what did they what did they say the last day of school about math that my five year old daughter's scared to death in the middle of the summer to think about Jesus in case math comes up? This has got a this has got end.

So maybe it is. Maybe it's coming from the public school. I don't know how much we could blame on the public school, but I I just think that they're at a younger age, people have this this sense of, you know, my parents were were religious and when I have kids, I'll be religious. Well, but I think that comes from the disparity in what people claim to believe and what they actually represent at home. Right? Like, if you if you go to church and you and you make your kids go to church because you think it's a benefit to them, but you don't represent that at home, then it just seems like something you do as an adult, not something you live. Right? If you're actually living it out at home, if you're modeling Christ at home, people, then it doesn't seem like a responsibility that you take on later in life that you make your kids do. It's something you want to do. I want to be at church. I like to I don't like it when there's a talk and not being there. You know, we we were my wife and I were talking, we're gonna have to miss small group coming up. And I'm like, I don't wanna miss small group. I wanna go. And you're like, I like you know But I don't wanna miss them. I like those people. I like to be there. I like to talk about the stuff that we're talking about. And that that comes as a surprise to no one more than it comes to me. I'm fighting to go to the small group to talk to some people. And like, I I wouldn't have done that five years ago, six years ago. I was like, okay, we better go, you know. We're supposed to do it. And but but I like to be there with those people. And I'm not saying that, like, if you don't go to small group one night, then it means you don't love Jesus. But I'm just, like, personally, I like to be there. Yeah. I like to go. I like go I like my LTG. I like going to the small group and meeting with those people. I like going to church. You know, I think I think the church also has misrepresented God so much

that people get disillusioned when he doesn't do what they think he should do. Like, if you you go into a typical, say, a Christian art, what what verses do they use? You know, God wants you to soar like wings on eagles. He's gonna prosper you. Everything's always good and positive. Never does it say, hey, might you give up your life. By the way, you may be stoned to death because of me. I've I've never seen that artwork on someone's wall. You know, it's always God bless and God's gonna do this. He wants to he wants to do great things for you. And in the real world, sometimes bad things happen. You know? Yeah. But, you know, I talked to to someone today, you know, his child died, his wife left him, and he lost his job on twelve months. That

where how where where where's the artwork that says, oh, but God wants you to prosper? Uh-huh. You you know? And and then pretty soon you go, this is a load load junk. It's it's not it's just stupid artwork on a wall. Why do I wanna be a part of that? You know? And and they leave because we have misrepresented God. We have had a cheap grace where you just say a little prayer, you raise up your hand or squeeze someone's hand. There's no following, no repentance that we talked about earlier, that there's no commitment. It's it's just we're gonna try to tickle you and make you happy and giggle. And and if and when the giggling stops, then go ahead and leave because there's nothing here for you. Yeah. Because we don't have time for you either. We're so busy tickling everybody that, you know, if someone really has a legitimate problem, I can't handle that. You know, that's the truth though, isn't it, Dan? Like like, you know the guys that I want that I want in my in my close circle of accountability

dudes and in my church community? I want guys that are gonna show up in the trench. You know what I'm saying? When things are going crappo. Yeah. Where's I want that's that's the people I want. Not the people that are gonna fix the problem, but the people who are at least willing to come down and stand in the dirt with me. Right? And I've had that happen multiple times with the people surrounding me. When things have really gotten crappy, you know, they did the best they could to help and they did in amazing ways, but at the very least, they stood right next to me and said, let's let's pray on it. I don't know what God's doing. Sounds like it's either gonna go, you know, continue to to get better or it might get worse. I don't know. But let's find out what God wants and you just keep plowing forward. And they can always be counted on for that. Right? And anybody who tells you any different is not doing you any favors. So quick sidebar.

This came to mind, after you asked me about that college age thing. Now there's a the University of Missouri is, like, twenty minutes away from my school, and they have a bunch of, like, Christian Wednesday night programs for the college age students to come out. And it's similar to the salt company Mhmm. That's at the ISU. And so you see a lot of like, it's a bunch. It's like a thousand college aged students show up on Wednesday night, and they have a sweet band.

They have a spiky haired preacher talk for a couple minutes, and then they all looks legit with a print t shirt, cool glasses. Highlights, and he's wearing flannel. And then they all leave, and they go to their frat parties, and they drink it up. And they, yeah, they just go wild, and they're like, what? And they don't go to anything on Sunday. They just hit that up that one Wednesday night. Like, yeah. Me and Jesus are good. We're good. Went Wednesday night, it was the best. Heard about some guy named Paul.

Shots, everybody. That's what I see. I you know what? I I actually had a a good friend of mine who I was talking to about Jesus have the same experience with the church that he was going to. He went with a a a lady friend of his and he'd go there on a Saturday night service. And then everybody from that church would leave and go to a bar. And it's not that just they would go to the bar, because that's fine. You can, as a community, go to the bar, have a couple drinks, whatever, be friendly. It's not a big deal. But they were getting real friendly. And they were having a lot of drinks. And they were not representing a good example of here's the deal. It that's it's those people that make me look like a fundamentalist.

And I'm not. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm the furthest safe from a fundamentalist. But those guys take the take the Lord's word and say, here's what you gotta do. Here's what Jesus wants. And here's how you put that into practice. You do whatever you want. You know what I'm saying? Here's the Lord's word. What it really means is, you can still do whatever you want and then come back and everything's cool. And that's is that the case? Yeah. God's got some grace for you. But, that grace comes with repentance. And that grace comes with accepting his word as it is, and following, you know, the the things that he has for you. And if you're not willing to do that, then, you know, you're basically just listening to everything they're saying. It's going to one end or out the other, and you do whatever you want. And you're telling people it's the gospel. And that's a real big mistake.

Yeah. People have this Jesus meter, where as long as you go to church once a week, or as long as you do your your youth group, or as long as you show up and hear the name Jesus once a week, you're fine. And no matter what else you do, it's all good because you went to church, or you went to youth group. It's it's like, it hits this bar, and then after that, you have to have absolutely no ties with God. You have to have absolutely no relationship. You don't have to follow the path that you've been set on. You don't have to follow the rules of God just because, you know, you went to church on Sunday. And there are so many people that call themselves Christians that do that. And I'm not gonna say that I don't. I've done it, and probably still will do it on many occasions. Rebuke? Yeah. Please do. I I'm I'm more I've gotten it from I think everyone in this room at one point in time or another, and I'm more happy to take it. But it it's absolutely ridiculous that people think that there's just this level to where, okay, now I've got enough God in my heart. Yeah. But do they not know the difference? Is that the question? Like like, to tie this all back into the church, do they not know the difference? I think there's a lot of people that can honestly say that that's okay. And truly believe 100% that that's okay. But I think there's still too many people that know 100% that that's not okay. And do it anyway. Well, but that's how you breed people that think it's okay. Right? That's exactly right. That that that's the thing is people you if have a large group of people, it's not just like one guy sitting in his house that's under that impression. Have large groups of people that think that something is creating that. These people do not create themselves.

I mean, it is true to a certain extent that if you create God in your image, he he likes to check up in with you and then he likes to leave you alone. That is a natural consequence of creating God in your own image because that's the type of God you kinda want hanging around. Hey, buddy. And then who's gonna let you go about your business? I will agree with that that some people have come to that conclusion their own. But that is perpetuated largely because somehow we've given the impression that that's what it is. Yes. Well, that's why we have surveys that say that, you know, The United States is an 80% Christian nation. That's ridiculous.

Because they all consider themselves. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It it's it's you are a Christian by saying Christian or other on a survey that you took. Or you applied for a job and it asked you, and you put Christian or other. And that's how we get this 80% Christian level, which is absolutely ridiculous. That's not true. There's a So what does the church do? But well well, I think that's the thing, though, is that I I think you have to I think you have to lean heavy on, on the guys that you know and the and the gals that you know that that know the difference and ask them why they're being so cowardly. Right? Because it's their example that's producing everybody else. And and, like, that's the way of the world. Right? People follow a strong, a strong leader. Like, someone that knows what they're talking about, knows what they're doing, and live it out. Even guys that are dead wrong. That's true. That's that's the mark that's the mark of, like, every time that you've had some sort of, like, outrageous leader that, like, kills millions and leads people in the wrong direction, they were at least convicted about it. Yes. They were. And that's how they got people to do it. Now, were dead wrong, and obviously, what they did was wrong. But but, I mean, people will follow

a shepherd. They will follow someone who's actually leading them somewhere. Not someone that's, like, gently coaching them to try to make right decisions. Someone who is actually leading them somewhere and modeling that. Someone who is who's pursuing that agenda on their own and modeling it for other people and teaching it to them so that they can do the same thing. We're just putting Jesus as the thing that people are should be pursuing and modeling and teaching. And and largely, I think we're just we're we're doing a soft we're doing a soft sell. We're selling it to them the way that the culture sells everything else to them, and that means Jesus becomes noise. It becomes noise just like every other advertisement becomes noise. Jesus does not need to be advertised in that manner. He is his own truth. He is his own way. He is his own set of information that is important on its own, not how we sold it. It's like we don't wanna offend people at work with with about Jesus, but then we've translated that. We don't even wanna offend at church with Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually probably a pretty solid point. Yeah. We need to move away from being a church that's a donut shop to a church that is the honest bride of Christ. Now wait a minute. Now wait a minute. Watch watch watch where you're going with that, Buva, though. Can we not have doughnuts? I never said that. Okay. So what do you mean by doughnut shop?

We're we're a pit stop for people. Are we? As a church, people come in on Sunday not saying Pathway specifically, just don't take that. But I I think You're a fool if you don't. Nice. That's that's why I go. I told you, don't I like to miss church. They put peanuts on those chocolate ones. I wasn't at a 32 and now a 36 for nothing. Everyone in this room has seen me eat a doughnut once or twice, so I'm I'm not saying that at all. But we have become just a a pit stop for people on Sunday morning. And as a church, as a as a church as a whole, not one specific church, not one specific faction of churches, just a church, as the church. Yeah. Get down to get down to practicality,

Buva. How you like like, how do you fix that? How do you fix that? Where's the where's the teeter totter? Oh, what? Raise the bar? Yeah. To where Jesus put it. Yeah. Right? We've lowered it. Yeah. Absolutely. We we have become too wishy washy on a lot of stuff. Here's the thing. Here here's the thing. If you personally pursue Christ, like if you have a a community full of people that are on their own pursuing Christ and then love other people to model it for them, that will take care of your problems. Yeah. You know saying? Like, we've just added a bunch of things that are beyond pursuing Christ and loving other people to make disciples. Yeah. And it's it's okay if people say no.

Yeah. We're so consumed with having a growth chart and numbers and and so much percentage increase. Even Jesus on the hill and said, here's the deal, and a bunch of people left. Yeah. And he was okay. He I mean, he was he wasn't like, oh, yay. I mean, he, you know, he wants to save everybody, but he also knows not everybody will accept. Here's yeah. We're trying to put everybody together and say, come on. Come on. We know We And we talked we talked about this in the studio just before the just before the program started. Like, I can count on one hand how many people that I have that had did not know Christ previously, and I talked to them about the gospel, and they ended up in a relationship with God. Right? This is not a numbers game. This is not, hey, I got more. Hey, you got less. That's not what it's about. The the thing is God got them all. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a it's a ratio of how many people that I know compared to how many people that I've talked to about Jesus Christ. Do know you what I'm saying? Like, if that my ratios, it's it's out of whack. Right? Like, I and it

shouldn't be. I should I should my the hope the hope that I have should be it should be flying out of me. Right? And so what's what do I expect out of people that I've that I've talked to about Jesus Christ and then they see a half of a half of a commitment. Right? Yeah. Jesus says pick up the cross and follow me. I pick up a twig and I'm like almost there. Yeah. I'm getting there, Lord Jesus. Almost there. It looks like an incline. I'm gonna I'm gonna make base camp. I'll be there in a bit. Well, isn't like the worst thought in the world to think that we as a church have have given these little softballs to people, you know, and these little soft sails, and then they meet the judge of the universe on judgment day, and he's like, yeah, you got it all wrong. You were close. Yeah. But but we didn't tell him. We didn't tell him the other half of the story. Right. You know, we don't just want your your butt in a seat and you to put some money in the offering. I could give a rip about either of those. We we we're trying to show you how to get to heaven Yeah. And how to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And we're not teaching people to follow Jesus Christ. We're teaching them how to follow our church. Yeah. Know Talking about the average church. Ben said something in the sermon last week that that for some reason stuck with me. But he says, think of all those think about That's a shock.

He said, think of all those people that you've been praying for to to to know Christ, you know. Think of all the all those people that you've been praying for about their relationship and realize that the answer to that prayer could be you. Right? You're like, oh, I pray that Nathaniel might come to know Jesus more. Maybe you should get over there. You know what I'm saying? Maybe you should talk to Nathaniel. You know Nathaniel? That's the thing. And everyone's like, oh, God, this is all in your hands. And God's like, I gave you legs. I've done my part. Get over there, you know. Tell him about the hope you have. What are you waiting for, you know? It is so weird that you're like, boy, I hope the Lord provide someone

that knows and loves knows Jesus and loves this guy enough to go talk to him. Because I love him and know him a lot and I want someone to help him. But it's not me. This person could really use someone. It's a follower of you, God. Just I Don't send me but They'd be uncomfortable. It's a little bit better at this. That's right. What if it fails? Right? What if they know I'm a Jesus man and they're like, no thanks. And then me and him are gonna be awkward from here on out. There's worse things to be awkward about. You know what I'm saying? There's lot worse things to be awkward about. Exactly. You could be the guy that, you know, clogged their toilet the last time you were at his house. Yeah. That's awkward. That is super awkward. When the people I know stand before the God of heaven

and and they find out they're not going to heaven, I I don't want their thought to be, why didn't he tell me? Yeah. I'd it be, why didn't I listen? Yeah. And then it leaks us on. That that's not me that's kinda selfish on my end. No. But it's the truth. Right? Like if you're gonna if you're gonna stand on something, stand on your relationship with Christ and say, I don't anybody that I've had had a breath in the same room with to get to heaven and look at Jesus in the face and he says, go away, I never knew you. And they're like, Mike, why didn't you say something? Yeah. Why didn't you say something? Well, didn't want you to be uncomfortable. I hope you enjoy hell. Brings up the concept. Yeah. That I've actually heard people say. It's just like, well, I don't want to offend anybody by by sharing the love of Christ. And, you know, they have their beliefs and I don't want to offend them. It's just like, guess what? You're gonna offend them when they find out that secret to life. We mean a national And you painted because you didn't wanna hurt their feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Now they're gonna be an eternal burning. Great job.

It's it's I I've run into that multiple multiple times on my own part that I've had to bust through that. I've had the whole, you know, I don't wanna hurt their feelings thing on a lot of occasions. And within the last couple years, I flipped it to where, you know, I'm gonna hurt their feelings if I don't share it. Dear, lie from the path. You may not have time for that. It's it's quicker. Okay. No, it isn't. It's not. You're not yeah. You're not gonna have time. Hey, you're listening you're listening to Life From The Path. You better stick to the podcast. Seriously,

we had, like, a list of three or four things. We just got done with number one. We had promised double double double. We had one. One. Uno. At least here's the thing that you do. Life from the path is passionate about the about the bride of Christ. That's the truth. We can't we usually can't piecemeal half an hour together. We've been barking on this thing for five minutes. You you know what I was thinking actually while we were talking was is is thinking all every barrier that you could come up with for

for for dumbing down the gospel is is inherent in the message of the gospel itself. Right? You know, I I feel like God's intolerant. Like, the message of the of the gospel itself is the most tolerant thing you can ever find. Right. God is the most gracious thing. He's the most serving thing. He's the thing that brings the most joy in your life.

He he it is it is more awkward to not share Jesus than to the consequences of or is more, sorry, is more awkward to share Jesus than to face the consequences of not sharing Jesus. Every barrier like, the gospel is compelling on its own. Anything we do to try to pretty it up, like, treats it as if it's not. It treats the gospel message as if it is not enough to change your life. We treats the gospel message as if it's not enough for you to feel loved and to feel in community and to feel served. And, like, that's diminishing gospel itself when we try to add it on and say, well, here's some aspects from the culture that I think will really, like, get them to see what what what God actually is. Like, it is on its own. The message itself is. That's what Jesus had, the message on its own.

And that was compelling enough. You're listening to Life in the Path. And we do appreciate you hanging out with us here on Monday night. If you never catch the live show Monday at 10PM, please do so. You can hang out on the chat. We'd love to hear you talking along and then and chatting along with us here at lifeinthepath.org. If you're listening to 99.3 KTIA, I do have to let you go. I appreciate you, hanging out, and I hope that we see you. You can catch us during the week at lifefromthepath.org.

You can see previous clips. You can sign up for the podcast and, check out the various artists and folks that we've had on the show. Thanks for listening. Have a good week. Alright. Hold on. You can't start your life from the rise from the path yet. I I was promised two popes. I bail it on my pope. Bubba. Pope stuff. Pretty much

Oh, okay. Fine. Go ahead. I'll make fun of Bubba's pope just to Fair enough. I expect that Make it happen. Every week and that's why I bring him to you guys. Something that has been weighing seriously hard on my heart lately is the fact that I

am not as smart as God. Neither are you. I'm not as powerful as God. Neither are you. I'm not as just as God, and neither are you. I don't know why I keep trying to take the pilot's seat on every decision that I've been making in the last couple months.

I have backseated God on almost every single decision that I have made, and that was brought to my attention by multiple people lately. Oh, you got that email I sent you? Yeah. I got that email that Dan, Mike, Ben, Nathaniel,

etcetera etcetera etcetera sent me. I found myself very recently, I'm currently in the midst of a move. It's the first time I've ever moved on my own. First time I've ever moved into my own place. I'm gonna take care of my own bills, gonna live on my own. I'm very excited. Do you like to move it move it?

I like to move it. I do like to move Hey, yo. Jokes with man. Wow. Please continue. That was I do like to move it, Move it. The pope has no sense of humor. The pope has no sense of humor. You are in my lawn. Shut it. And

so I've been making a lot of decisions lately. And I've been super stressed worried and extremely anxious about this. Ben, if you play that What? I'm sorry. What?

K. I I'm gonna keep going even though this is about to start playing. That's great. Alright. I can't deny that wasn't funny. Okay. You backseat the Lord. I'm with you. Yeah. So I completely backseat the Lord on a lot of my decisions lately. I've been anxious, I've been scared, I've been worried.

I have not prayed a single time about any of these decisions. Well done. Yeah. Know. Right? And I tried to think to myself, why am I so stressed out? And why am I so anxious? Why am I so mad about this? Why am I so scared? It's because I haven't given it to the Lord. Like, there's a God that loves me, knows everything about me, that just says, hey, I got open arms. Just give it to me. Like, come on, dude. I it's I'm right here. Guess what? I can make a better decision than you can. Give it to me. And for some reason, I have this false sense of I'm smart and independent, and I can take care of this myself, when I'm an idiot and I need God more than life itself. You don't know Jesus, I'm smart. I'm real smart. Yeah, Exactly.

I know things. I don't. And I see people doing this so much. We have every bit of we have to hold on to the wheel and and to use the the common expression of of taking the backseater, taking driver's wheel. You know, we do that so much when it would be so much easier, and we like to move the movement all the time, and it'd be so much easier just to give it to God. We don't, and I have no idea why. And that's the thing that I'm I've gotta give you advice on. You're not better at this than God is. You never will be. I don't care what stage of your life you are in. You could be a father of 16 being financially great, tithing every week, doing all your responsibilities,

but guess what? God can still make a better decision than you. You could be an 18 year old that has no idea what you'd do. God could definitely make a better decision than you. So stop holding on to stuff. Stop keeping it in your clutches because you're not good enough. You're not. Give it up to God. He's gonna be better at it. He's gonna make a better decision, and he's gonna get rid of your stress. Absolutely. Hands down. He will take it and run with it, and make a much better decision you ever could.

Now get off my lawn. I like to move it, move it. I like to move it. Pope style advice. Pope style advice. Move it, move it. I agree with that. Nathaniel, did you have some commentary? Yeah. You look like you do. I I was gonna say, I I found that I have the same problem problem as Troy over here. And I was reading this week about the raising of of Dorcas.

And right before Peter goes in and tells her to rise, he prays first. Kneels He down and he prays. I was thinking about it. I was thinking about all the, like, big life decisions that I I, I've made in my life and how how I I often don't pray about them at all. This is a big, big turning point in Peter's life that, this is the first time that Even worse than the dorkuses. Yeah.

And he and he prays so that he sits down, he prays about it. And, I I find that I was I was searching why I don't do this, and I I feel like it's it's a huge pride issue. Like like

Troy was saying that it I think I know better and I don't. And another problem is I when I do pray, I find it hard to discern what God's telling me because like if it's something that I wanna do it obviously can't be what God wants, because that would be just way too easy. But then, if it's something really hard, I don't wanna do it, because it's hard. Actually, that's a that's pretty much the textbook struggle of every Christian I know. Right? Like, if like, if you're humbly seeking God's advice or or his direction, you almost instantly figure that whatever you came up with is probably not gonna work. So it's out. Yeah. This is the worst. This is way too confusing. And when you think of the worst thing that could possibly happen, you're like, yeah, that's probably what That's what God said. Gonna put me through because

I need to learn something. I had somebody tell me that just like within the last few weeks. So like, I feel like I won't ever be a good enough Christian unless I become like international missionary. Be because that's the thing, that you give up everything in your life, and you've sacrificed absolutely everything you know to go somewhere and and to tell people about Jesus, and you spend like most of the day doing it. And, like, in their mind and and I I thought, I I get that. I get that. But but that's not that's not really what God is after. That's Yeah. That's not what he's thinking. And what they don't understand is the international missionary spends most of their life just building a normal life so that they can build a relationship to talk to someone. Exactly. It takes them twenty years to share the gospel once. That's what I'm saying. I didn't know what you You've already done that here. Go ahead and You could easily be pegged as the missionary when you're the widest guy in the place and you don't have a job. They

know who you are. The rich American. He's a Jesus man. He's on the payroll somewhere. He either rolls cigar or he had Jesus.

So so how awkward is it? You mentioned Dorcas and Peter praying, you know. How how how awkward is it if if Peter prays and then nothing happened? He it doesn't say what he prayed for, actually. Like, it it just says that he knelt down and prayed. Like, it could have been he could have been praying for for God's will. And it's just I'm just seeing that as an awkward you know, it's like, sorry family about Dorcas. Here, let me pray. She's coming back. Well, give her a kick. I mean, I don't know. Hold on. Because I like and I saw the way that Jesus dealt with this and it was smooth. He's like Yeah. Hey, she's only sleeping.

And they laughed at him. He goes, okay. We'll see who's laughing. Get on up there, Tabitha. Hopefully,

Peter's smooth. You know, he's like, hey, Dorcas is dead. No. No. She's she's probably just sleeping. Actually Let me verify. He did clear the room. Maybe that's a good reason to do it. So you didn't make any problems. Did you clear everybody out? That's what he, like, lays on top of her. Right? Am I confused? Looking at that. A different story. That's Elijah and the the a boy. I thought that was when Peter did, that too. I'm just confused. They all merged together. But I was watching a a different I was watching a a different sermon on it. And, some guy was like, yeah. I've I've prayed in front of other people's families for people to be risen from the dead. It hasn't really worked out a whole time.

But at least I had faith. You know, I'd clear the room before I do that. I think it's best the right move. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, everybody. I I would have an awkward prayer. I really would. If I were trying to pray aloud in front of somebody's family for their their family member to be risen, I'd just be like, and God, if you could do this, that'd be awesome. But the thing is you know he can. Oh, yeah.

I mean, you just you Here's How many times have I wanted You're to do putting the This doesn't You're basically acting like God's attorney. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna be like, Lord, if it's your will, raise this girl. Oh, I guess it's not. He said, well. Well, why? Well, I'm not sure. You know, I didn't get that much information. I just got the no by your family member not being alive right now. I also learned last week he doesn't want me to have a boat. Things just aren't working enough for me right now on the prayer front. Apparently, I really don't know what god's will is because I'm trying to I'm trying to align to it, but everything I pray for him is not god. That's so tough because because honestly, every prayer you pray, you know God has the power to do it. Right. God can do I mean, there is nothing he can't do. Isn't that something to keep in mind though that you're like, hey, God. I could really use this.

Okay. You said no. Yeah. It's not an issue of faith. It's an issue of yeah. Is it really his will? It? He said no. Although, we've gone through this. Right? Does he say no or does he doesn't give a rip? You know, like, we just talked about this a couple weeks ago. Well, if you look at the Bible, the miracles always happen so the gospel go excuse me, gospel could be presented. Yeah. You know, it wasn't like he didn't just go around resurrecting people randomly. Right. You get you know what mean? He's dead. He not dead. It was always a purpose, you know, and and Sent you the message. For

us to just randomly resurrect different people, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. You know? It be very confusing. Right. Like, think about it this way. Like, is it God's move to say, well, you know, hope Mike shows up and goes across that dead body and and the body is woken up so that Mike can be glorified? I feel like that's not what he wants. No. It's true. You know, and and what would happen think our day and age. Right? Mike, you go in there and you're the guy that goes and prays for somebody and that person comes to life. Where where are people coming to ask questions? You. Yeah. They're and whether you said, no no, it's God. God's glory or not, you're now a Team Tebow. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're the guy. That's true. And so, you know, if I'm God, do I say, well, yeah, get my glorifying mileage out of that? Probably not. They they they just learned to serve Mike. No. That's that's true. That's not You're pathetic, Mike. Mike, I'm not gonna serve you. I took I off did, Mike. I went on the Today show. I I called myself the second Jesus. You see that guy incidentally claimed to be the second coming Jesus come from Brazil. No.

Here's the deal. He did not come in glory. He he came in bugle boy pants. You know what I'm saying? Those those those, like, infiltrated from The United States to Brazil in, like, twenty years it took to get him there. That's what happens when you get a low bar. You got a guy thinking he can pass off as the second coming of Christ showing up in an Escalade in a bugle boy pants. That's exactly right. And he's like, I must be him. This this is the bar. This is yeah. This is this is the pinnacle of awesome. I have to be the second I I don't know what people have in mind when they when Christ says evil come in glory. But I got something pretty big in my righteousness. Escalade and the white suit.

Seriously, Is that a member's only jacket? Exactly. That guy's got a beard. He's gotta be Jesus. He's gotta be has to be him. Long hair, beard. He seems like a good guy. Back at the stable. Righteous and true. Eats and beets. Where's the Legion? Don't worry about it. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Remember those those scorpion faced bees I was gonna come? Not yet. They got caught up in traffic.

Check out oh, no. They're here. Dig the tat. I had to go to three guys to get this right. I killed two guys on the way here. That's why the swords aren't coming out my face no more. Anyway, I'm Jesus. Nice to meet you. You've

you've heard of me, I'm guessing. You guys got donuts at your place? Because I'll come to the church if you guys have donuts. You can be my bride if you got donuts. It's cool, man. Everything you were expecting, I'll my own sweet time. I'm Jesus Christ. Hey, Don't rush me. Be get off of me. You've been waiting for two thousand years. Why are you in a big hurry now? I realized that I'm, you know, the god of everything, but if I could get on your cable programming so that people will know me.

I've I've stumbled onto the net. I do a weekly podcast. I don't think people recognize me by myself. I think you need to introduce me. I've been you know what? Actually, now that you say that, I've been pretty disappointed with the guys trying to pass themselves off. I mean, put some work into it. Right. That that actually that's also how you know, you know, I I don't even believe this line of theology anyway. But the but the type of people that are trying to point out the guy that they think is the antichrist is always pathetic. Yeah. You know what saying? It's the same thing they do with Satan. Like, it's some kind of pathetic, like, crappy Satan Yeah. Under undeceiving, really It's the guy who wears mustache grows suspiciously upward and like, oh, it's gotta be him.

Oh, his name's Lou? Oh, it's him. It's him. There's no way that's not him. I was watching a movie this weekend. It's an older movie, but they had that this guy had gone to like a a super charismatic church, you know, on the movie. And I and and it cracked me up because, like, it it was it was actually was like a documentary type movie. And the guys the guy goes to this church and, like, the the preacher's preaching a message and, like, every once in a while, one of the preachers would, like, zoom across the front with his hands up just running by. And then and the camera would stay on him and he'd, like, slow his run down and then he'd sit over and lean and be winded.

And I thought, the holy spirit did not lead you to do that. There's nothing glorifying to God about you and your pants running across the front of the stage and being winded on the stage. Just there's no glory to be had there. God stuff's exhausting. Exactly right. They would just run up there and like, woah. The guy's preaching like, give it Jesus. And he runs by and he's like, Jesus. And then he just over there winded on the side of the Holy Spirit, I can't do another lap. I can't do another lap. The church had a platform for running on. Right? It wasn't just a regular carpet. They had like like hard hard surface right in front of the stage so you could come burn it by and do your wave and then go be winded on the side. And I'm like, I don't understand this at all. Lemonade. This is the church dance floor. You're obviously

led by the holy spirit if you're doing this little jig over here. One time, I attended a church and during during the sermon, right during the sermon, a lady stood up and did an interpretive dance around the sanctuary and then sat back down and everyone was like, oh, yeah. Oh. I just I was really confused. This here's the deal. Wait. This is what Paul's talking about. What he's talking about, ladies with earrings. Here's here's what's that. You you wanna wanna find the number one miss

the misinterpreted part of scripture, especially the New Testament, in churches across the board, it's the Holy Spirit. And do know why? Because you have crap like this happen. Right? Where people like, the Holy Spirit led me to come buzz it across the front with my hands away, then be winded on the side. And people are like, I don't understand this Holy Spirit. He does weird things Mhmm. And it's unexplainable. There seems to be no glory to God. But but everybody says it. Like, the craziest man ever ever around, even second Jesus, goes like, I feel the Holy Spirit tugging at me. And really, I'm the second Jesus. Like, the Holy Spirit has said, you know how much has been done to blaspheme the Lord in the Holy Spirit's name? Oh, yeah. Because it's so, like, it's just not understood what the Holy Spirit does and and and what it's about. And and, like, people just do the weirdest freaking stuff. They at the end of that sermon, the guy's like and they still have the cameras rolling. The guy's like, come up and be healed. And I'll be darned if the guy who's winded over the side is coming up to be healed. He'd probably been fine if he didn't come running by the running stage. I just had a stroke. I'm gonna get out of breath, Jesus. Can you take care of this? He won't catch like 400 pounds, you know.

So four hundred pound man comes burning across, and then he's dying over the side because he don't run and then he's coming up to be healed. Like, maybe you should've just stayed at your seat, dude. Will you guys please stop me if I ever feel the need to just run across the church for no reason? We're gonna video it. Lay lay down on the ground just like, I can't do this anymore. No. I I agree with Dan. We're gonna video it and then we're like, this is why people don't come. This this thing right here. This is the real reason people don't come to church. There's no community in that. So the stridigenerous of a man keeps barreling across the church. Here's the thing. If you wouldn't do it in somebody's house, you shouldn't be doing it in God's house either. You know I'm saying? Like, you if you wouldn't if you don't go to your uncle's house, just start up with your uncle's you

shouldn't be doing it at the Lord's house either. Now, here's the deal though. If it's 11:30 at night and you're praying before you go to bed and you feel the Holy Spirit energize you, and you wanna run around the block, that's cool. Like, I'm down with that all day long. And you pass the guy who's getting his groceries, like, what's the matter with you? He's like, the Holy Spirit. I love Jesus. And you keep on burning, you're the coolest man I know. I would hope the Holy Spirit will fill me with such joy that I would do that. But like if you have to wait till Sunday at 10:30 Yeah. To do it When everybody's watching. I feel like it's disinitrous. Those guys are always dressed. We they were prepared. Yeah. Yeah. Should I wear my stretchy socks? I might be running. There's a good chance the Holy Spirit could fill me in a couple hours. I better be ready. I hope he doesn't fill me to do a cartwheel because I have to get it right today. I cannot do a somersault, but the holy spirit wants me to, I will. I was hearing I heard one guy talking, he was some preacher, and he was talking about how he used to live back out in the country, like, no one lived there. And he would just sometimes he would just be reading scripture and then he'd just start running through the fields, shouting to God, dude, just praising. I was like, that's pretty sweet. That is pretty sweet. Right? Like, I'm totally down with that. That's because it's a you and him Yeah. Relationship thing. Like, I think that's totally awesome. I I mean, I've I've laughed and I've cried and I've I've I've made jokes while I'm praying and whatever, and, like, that's an awesome relationship. But, like, if all that has to happen at the stage set

Sunday morning, I don't I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it appears disingenuous to me. That's that's all. And maybe I need to be straightened out on that, but it just seems a little staged that you have to spend x 100 of dollars to put a running track in front of the place, so people can come with acrobatics in the front. Here's what I would generally say about the Holy Spirit is, like, we significantly underestimate the Holy Spirit. And you can tell that that's the case because people think they got a line on him. You know I'm saying? Like, the people that are creeping you out because of what they say the Holy Spirit doing is is they feel like they have some kind of control or they've got a line on them and they tell you what God's do when God's doing it. And that shows me that you underestimate the Holy Spirit. I underestimate the Holy Spirit because there are things probably that that go on that I might not think that the Holy Spirit's involved with. That's that's where I'm at. But and that's an underestimation. But the same people who are claiming that that the Holy Spirit's always moving where they think he's moving and he shows up on time and he shows up in everything that this guy does, that's they are estimate underestimating the Holy Spirit to the extent that they feel like they got a handle on it. Yeah. If you look at the scripture, the Holy Spirit comes on people to glorify God, not to glorify people. Right. You know, oh, you're spiritual. You did somersaults in the front of the church, you know. If it's more like the Holy Spirit came on someone and said, go witness to that guy. He needs Jesus. Right. And and then they go and there's a conversion, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We we've totally That's true. There was no one in the New Testament that was like, hey, did you see Philip fly? No. Yeah. The Holy Spirit just picked him up and rolled him somewhere and no one probably saw it. Right? It was just recorded that the Holy Spirit did it to bring glory to God that he can move you wherever he wants to move you. But there was not like a big up where it was like, because because the Bible doesn't ignore those facts. Right? The Bible sees miraculous things happen and and like when they tried miracles to

was it Peter and John? And they said, woah woah woah woah woah. You got the wrong guys. It's Jesus that did these things. Right? And so, like, it's not like the Bible doesn't record the false attribution to a man. But no one said, hey, Philip could fly. That is cool, you know? Yeah. He's a man among men, a king, a probably a god man. No one said anything about that because the glory went to the Holy Spirit and it was it was about business. And it wasn't about glorifying Philip. Right? And so, like, I think that's pretty that's a pretty dead line. The Holy Spirit is involved in glorifying the Father. And so, like, the odds of of of the Holy Spirit glorifying you are pretty much zero, if not negative. I'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. It's very likely. I really hope that never happens. Don't Here's the deal. We gotta get out of here. We're already over. We're gonna have to do our advice next week. You're listening Life of the Path. Thanks hanging out with us, here on the podcast. I do love you. Seriously, I do love you. I'd like to pray for you. You got anything you want us to pray about is that we we do a, we do a weekly, prayer list here at life in the past for the folks we've had on, for the stuff we got going on, and, we'd love to pray for you. Send us an email, [email protected]. We'd to be able to do that for you. Have a good week. We'll see you next week.