Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path.

And you're listening to Live From The Past. We're coming to you from the, Pathway Studios here in the enigmatic dark cellar like Johnston Proper. There's where somebody used to be. Here

here once stood a man, John Buba. Dude, I thought I I I don't think of stuff in time. I really thought that I should've we should've had a mask made. I don't know where you could have a mask made. Like, is it only Hollywood style that make masks? No. If you want, like, a legit mask, can you get that done around here? I think I think you gotta find criminals. Yeah. I was just gonna say it. I think it's around here Yeah. Unless it's It's only criminals. Suspect intentions. Yeah. Yeah. They're they're really good at the straight colors without any facial features, but I think they could probably So like if I wanted to get a John Buva face, oh, I couldn't do it in, say, the tristate area. I don't think so. I'll say no. Dang. Here's the deal. If you are a face maker, you let me know. [email protected]. Yeah. I I I like, I need your rock bottom price. Alright? I mean, I don't have free money to be buying a face. No. No. But I'd like to make a John Buba. We'll throw you business. Absolutely. But I want him to with a mustache, and I wanna call him Don Buba,

and I wanna wear him. Okay. Okay? Alright. That's what I want done. So if you make faces, you let me know. Infolifeandthepath.org. I mean, rock bottom prices. I mean, what's two digits? If you cut us a good deal, anybody that asks us, you know, to have a face made, we'll send them your way. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. You'll be our exclusive face making business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Think I that's gonna work. Here we go. Here's what we got on the show tonight. First of all, John Wagner's in studio. Hey, John. What's going on, buddy? How are doing? Yeah. Very well. It's good to see John again. John has been he has been on the show before, and, I mean, he was excellent. Yeah. I have, like, five five stars. I I do like like three. Definitely. That's probably the strong three. Yeah. Actually, the only reason he didn't come on the the next week is because he tried to change the name of the show to John Wagner show, and we had to give it time to cool down a little bit. Yeah.

Anyway, so John's on. He's gonna be providing, thoughts for the day, general commentary, things of this nature. He's also a mean origamist. Oh, I'll be making some crazy origamist. But but, I mean, it's it's it's a radio program, and we just don't do that. You can't see it. It's not functional. I mean, you're gonna have to call him at home or something. He's up he's up late. Stuff we're talking about tonight. I I saw I saw this article on CNN belief blog, five things you didn't know about Jesus. And I thought that's a kind of a pompous thing to say. What do you know what I know about Jesus? So what you we're gonna walk through them and see if you knew them about Jesus.

And it's hard to be mad at the guy, though. He's like a he's a he's got the white collar and stuff, and he's smiling, like, ear to ear. I mean, he looks like he's having a good time when he's writing it. Know? You didn't know no more. Yeah. Like, he's really doing the revelation. He's he's telling you everything you ever wanted to know. As a matter of fact, this whole show is stuff you didn't know. So five things you didn't know about Jesus. Two, stuff you didn't know about how modern folks read the Bible. Interesting. Interesting survey about how people read the Bible, what translation they read. I just thought some of this stuff was interesting. We'll see if it how it strikes you. Alright? We might get to some stuff that you didn't know about Saint Patrick Saint Patrick, because today is Saint Patty's Day if you're listening to the live show. Yeah. And, stuff you didn't know about why pastors leave the pulpit. I there's a there's a website called xpastors.com,

and, they got an interesting order there about why pastors leave the pulpit. And it's not just interesting for, like, pastors, as a I mean, there's millions of people that attend church. And, think of the guy that gets up there and speaks and goes to, you goes to the hospital, does funerals and weddings. Something about his situation has caused that guy

to leave. And I feel like that's an interesting question is what has caused that guy to stop, say, go doing funerals, stop preaching, stop doing weddings. What's drawing that guy away from that? So, some of these things are pretty interesting, so I wanna kinda talk through that. Also, we'll do some advice on dear life and the path. And, Mike, you said you got some, Pope style? I got a little bit of Pope style. It hits kinda close to home this week. So okay. Alright. Very cool. Also, you so we Mike was talking just before the show started about, the massive uptick in Facebook quizzes that show, like, a character. Yeah. So a character of somebody is. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I you know, it it it seems like, especially, it was, like, last week or or two weeks ago, it really hit its its, fulcrum.

But everybody was like, hey. I'm this character from this b movie from the eighties, you know, based on this quiz I took. Or, you know, if I was a a left shoe or right shoe, it turns out I'd be a right shoe because of these reasons. And I'm like, man, are we are we so hard up to define ourselves that we're willing to latch on to I mean I mean, literally anything. Like, what character are you from Teen Wolf? I mean, if you're not Teen Wolf, you're lame. The the movie's called Teen Wolf. Everybody should wanna be the main character. Yeah. Right. You don't wanna be the bee Yeah. Teen Wolf. I was the guy that got killed in the second scene. Well, that's disappointing. And people tend to so so when they they get their character, then they start, like, defending. Like, that's the best one. It's like, you know, I didn't wanna be Scooby Doo. Velma's the best. Always has been the best. Yeah. What do mean I should live in Wisconsin? I hate Wisconsin.

I mean, you really like, you could take five questions. They're gonna tell you what state you should. And they that's the thing is the title of the quiz is not like, what state would you probably like to be in? It's always like, what state should you be in? What character should you be? What kind of parent are you? You know what saying? They're, like, definitive. Like, after these five questions, we will know you to your soul. And and, like, I took one. Like, here's the deal. Here it comes. Suck. These are worthless. You should not be doing them. You have no purpose in your life if you take them. Did. Did one. I did. But but see, unlike everybody else, I don't ever post the results to Facebook. I'm just interested to see what this website thinks of And and, like, I got suckered into the to the parent one. I'm interested to know what this faceless code of a website feel like me as a person. I feel like they're sizing me up, and I just wanna know who am I against. So, anyway, I took that, and they suckered me in on the parent thing. Well, what kind of parent are you? I'm like, I don't see handsome and cool, but I guess we'll see what happens. You know? And it turned they called me a helicopter parent. You know what I'm saying? Like, I hover over my kids and and whatever watch them all the time. I thought this could not be any more wrong. Like, I mean, there's times when I'm like a flytrap on them ladies because they'd be causing the trouble. But, like, most of the time, you know, if they wanna wear a crown, a pair of shorts, and the galoshes out and about, I you know, I don't care. I don't see that as being any big deal. And so after that, I decided I'd start checking them out without actually taking them. And they were just totally random. You know, what song defines you? That'll help us tell you what state you were supposed to live in. You know? It turns out it's North Carolina, you know, because you picked some kind of old Beach Boys tune. I don't know. It was it just seems ridiculous. You know? Like like, just people grasping, like, define me. Tell me who I am. Who am I supposed to be? I don't understand what what's going on. And I thought I mean, on a on a more serious level, I'm like, you know,

it's gonna sound really cliche to me. Right? But but, like, your maker defines you. God made you. God tells you who you are. God nurtures you and who you're supposed to be. And and, like, you spend your whole life searching for for who you are or or or what you were supposed to be instead of ignoring you know, and just ignoring what God designed you to be and meant you to be. And, like, I don't know. It just seemed like, like, I could just as easily fall into that trap as anybody else, but, like, it just seemed to be, I don't know, coming to a pinnacle, you know, on social media here lately. I think I took it a different direction. I see all those go by all the time on my Facebook feed. When it comes by once for one person, I see yours pop up. I'm like, oh, that was probably fun. You were probably bored. That was funny. You wanted to see what you were. But when the same person has 19 of them in a row, like, was Fonzie. I was, you know, Baa Baa Bear. You know, I was Kermit the Frog. I was you just like, do you have nothing else to do? Right. Literally. Nothing. Are you just sitting there with nothing? Because I have things you can do. You know what? I have a list. Come to my office. I will give you things you can do. They might even be kingdom oriented. It'll be great for both of us. Yeah. But sometimes those things are fun. You do some mindless stuff for a minute, but when you do it 34 times in a row to see if you can get a new answer Yeah. Well, you know, that's that's the thing. And, like, I you know, we haven't really touched on this topic a whole lot, but, like, I'm starting to fear social media more and more because it's attractiveness.

Right? Like, I get sucked into it just as fast as anybody else. Yep. And I spend more time not interacting with it, but just creeping on it. You know? What do you do? What do you what's going on? You know? And then I'm like, how why would you even write that on Facebook? Well, here's the deal. If I wasn't creeping on you, I wouldn't even know you wrote it. Right? So I'm I'm half guilty on this thing. But but, like, I don't know. People just get drawn into this, like, this alternate version of you because the input of who people see you are is totally based on you. Right? And, like, that gives me every excuse to lie about me. You and and and once you start doing it, it starts to cross over into your actual life. And then, like, you you you pretty much build a persona of somebody that you are not. You are honestly not that. Now, I mean, am I expecting you to roll up onto Facebook and be like, I totally lost my temper and I did terrible things, and I really said mean stuff to my life? I'm out. You know what I'm saying? Like, post at nine zero ten, 09:10. But, like, yeah, no one's gonna do that. But, like, on the other hand, it's just it's just starts to be a way of life where it's it's nothing but phony, phony, phony, phony, phony. And then all of a sudden, you're a big fat phony. Like, that's really all you are, and then you start taking quizzes to figure out who you are because you lost your real self and your phoniness. Yeah. Hands up. I spend way too much time on the Facebook mobile app. I pull up my phone, check my work email, check the Facebook feed. So that's one hypocrite right here. But at the same time, you know, Facebook, look, you got to you only post things. Most people only post positive things about themselves. Yep. And so when you go out and read it, really easy to feel down if you're not in a good space about yourself. That's true. You know, and you get yourself into a rut because look how great everybody else's life is. Right. They're posting they're on vacation. They got a new job. Look at their puppy. Oh, there's Scooby Doo in the, you know, in the cartoon. Yeah. So I think it's it's dangerous for folks who maybe aren't comfortable with who they are or in a bad spot or who don't have a way or don't have a purpose themselves, because then they go out there and see only perfect things about other people. That's right. You're not you're not listening. You know that's not honest. Right? But, like, I mean, when you're from a certain place, it still hits you. I mean, you know for a fact not everybody's life isn't shining gold, but, like, you're still like, well, it just looks better than me. I'll tell you that. You know, it looks like they got some stuff going on. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not saying it's bad or it's the devil's work or anything. I'm just saying, like, I know that that I I crossed the line on that thing. And, like, I I I always promise myself I'm gonna fast that Facebook. You know, I'm gonna get off it for a while. And, like, I never I've never committed to doing it. Like, this is the week. I know I should. I just never quite do it, which means I'm addicted to it and needs to go, you know, but but, like, to a certain extent, I just know that I you know, that's if you take the five minutes I look at it, you know, every two hours, you know what? I mean, we're talking a half hour away from my kids. You know, we're talking about half we're talking half hour away from my work, half hour away from my from my wife. You know, I mean, these are people that honestly care about me, invest back in me. These are people that love me and that I should be loving back. And and I'm I'm looking at, you know, people from high school that, I mean, literally, I didn't even know them. I had no idea who they were. Yeah. And they may have maybe shoved me into a locker one time, and now we're buddies ten years later. But, I mean, I I have no investment in them. They don't even they don't even know me. And I'm spending more time looking to see what they might have done last night than, you know, talking to my kid. It's it's just I find it embarrassing for me. Like, for me, it's embarrassing, and I'm just it needs to curb a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I didn't I have not taken the quiz. I was actually looking for one to see if I could take one real quick and see if I could be Scooby Doo. You would be Don Quixote. Oh, man. Unfortunately.

Wait. Is that a It's a movie. No. It's a book. It's a book. Don Quix. I who I was thinking of the cartoon character. Hold on there. It's hot dog food. Quick draw quick draw McGraw. Okay. Hold on there. And then the dog that eats the boob biscuit. You know what I'm talking about? Is that the same dog? Shoot. Never mind. I've outed myself. I wish I'd I wish I'd had stayed home.

I I didn't say anything for, like, five minutes, and then I ended up saying that. You know I'm saying? I stored up all my goodwill, and that's what came out of my mouth five minutes later. That's unfortunate. What a bummer. Five things you didn't know about Jesus. CNN belief blog. Here we go. Okay. Number one, Jesus came from a nowhere little town. How big was Nazareth Nazareth?

Any idea? 500 people. Population? 500. Wagner? Seven fifty. Oh, Wagner's going up. Nearly all nearly all modern day archaeologists agree the town of Nazareth had only 200 to 400 people.

Jesus' hometown is mentioned nowhere in either the Old Testament or the Talmud, notes dozens of other towns in the area. In fact, in the New Testament, it's literally a joke. The gospel of John, a man named Nathaniel hears the messiah is Jesus. Now that he says, can anything good come from Nazareth? That's right. That's right. So that was number one. Number two, Jesus probably didn't know everything. An interesting

suggestion. He says this is a thorny theological question. If Jesus is divine, wouldn't he know all things? Indeed, on several occasions, Jesus predicts his death and resurrection. On the other hand, if he had a human consciousness, he needed to be taught something before he could know it. The Gospel of Luke says that when Jesus was a young man, he progressed in wisdom.

That means he learned things. Otherwise, how would he progress? Second example, I think I'm gonna take some serious issue with. In the Gospel of Mark, Jesus initially refuses to heal the daughter of a non Jewish woman, saying rather sharply, it is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs, describing the the Gentile. But when she relies replies that even the dogs get the crumbs from the table, Jesus softens that he heals her daughter. He seems to be learning that his ministry extends beyond the Jewish people. I I I have yeah. I just don't agree with that interpretation of that. I I I feel like his answer was for his disciples who were thinking that, but not that not being what he was thinking. I don't think he was like, you know what? Touche, Gentile woman. Here you go. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I always read it with the inflection, like, you know, is it wrong blah blah blah to give it to the dogs? Like, like, he he read it as a inquisitive, you know, that you know this is where where our our stance is. That's not a question though. He's saying it firm. It is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs. You think Nah.

I I think he's saying it I always read it as a question. I think he's saying it firm, but I think he's saying it in the way that the disciples that's what their reaction would be. And so he's saying what they would expect him to say, and then she rebuts, and then he he relents. I I don't think he didn't know. I'm I guess this is how I think I agree with is how I always saw it. And and and, you know, this I guess, theologically, this is just where I base it from, is like, he's fully God and fully man, and he chose to take his his his whole his God

and set it aside. You know what I'm saying? Like like, he he took the the attributes of God that he has and and set them aside to be man. Like, he still has them. He just has set them aside. Does that does that sound right? That's generally how how I guess I I look at it because, like, I I can't understand like, there's there's things, for example, if he was if he knew all things, like, comes down and finds the disciples sleeping, you know, when he was up praying, you know, he knew he was gonna do that. You know, he knew they were gonna do that if he knew that. You know? It's a y act surprise. I think it's for their benefit. Well, see, that's what I thought. But that would mean that almost everything he did was was fully for our benefit to be read

later. Yeah. I could see that. Okay. I don't have any reason not get on board with that. I mean, do you have a problem if that's true? No. I don't think so. I I think I yeah. I wonder if I that there might be I wonder if I I'd have to go through and look and see if there's a couple of sticking points where I where I where I swerved off thinking that that was the case. I don't remember what it is right now, actually. But So what about go a step further in in that prayer when he says,

if it be will take the cup from me, but not my will, but yours be done. If he knows if he knows all and knows exactly what's gonna happen, why pray that prayer? Yeah. I'm asking the question. This and that's where I've fallen back on. If you're if you are somehow simultaneously great mystery of the faith, both fully human and fully divine, so capable of being tempted, right, you know, of understanding what pain is, capable of knowing then fear,

you know, you could even know something's gonna happen, but still, oh my goodness. You know, I sense where this train's going, and this station is not a place I wanna end up. I mean, this is gonna hurt. So if it's if it's within your power, take this cup from me, but not my will Right. You and yours be done. I I still think you can you can be both. Yeah. And you can, you know Well and cut the whole one apart and say, nah. I'm not gonna be Yeah. At this point, was God. Well, here's the thing. And, like, I mean, I I can't fathom that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I I mean, we could probably talk about it for all day, and I don't know that I'd ever catch the glimpse of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's just mysteries of God that I don't understand. Sure. And being fully God and fully man at the same time, I just I don't know if I can grab it. I think there's a lot of very smart guys that that spend a lot of potentially wasted time arguing that over. I mean, sure. I mean I I mean and and that's that's almost blank across the bible. Like, I mean, there's there's something to be said for for running into some rough stuff and going, gotta figure out what what's going on here, you know, doing some study and and and and checking it out. But, like, sometimes I go, yeah. You know, I suppose if that guess what god said went down. I love it. Absolutely. That's what went down. Put more animals on that boat. I'm I'm sure. I don't care how big it is. That's the thing. People like, we we we actually did the dimensions in the boat, and, you know, the boat was this big and there couldn't have been blah blah blah. I'm like, look. If God says those animals are going on a boat, they're going on a boat. If God says stars in the air, there's stars in the air. Right? That's there's sometimes when I when I read the whole bible, sometimes I can come back and say, I've seen enough. You know, if if God is who he says he is, I you know, I don't know what you're gonna say to me that's gonna convince me otherwise. Right. You're getting a stiff argument from a guy that still scratches his butt in front of mixed company. You know? That's the guy that's arguing with you. Yeah. But Here's the thing. Yeah. But I don't think another elephant could've, excuse me, could've fit.

Here we go. Three. Jesus third thing you didn't know. Jesus was that went down the rabbit hole really fast. Like, we were That hit a little close to home, didn't it, Wagner? I'm glad this camera is only, you know, shoulders up. From age 12 to 30, Jesus worked in Nazareth as a carpenter.

Is not this the carpenter? Says the astonished crowds when he begins to preach. The word used for Jesus' profession in the original Greek is tekton. The traditional translation is carpenter, but most contemporary scholars say it's more likely a general craftsman. Some even translate it as day laborer. A tekton would have made doors, tables, lampstands, and plows, but he probably also built stone walls and helped with house construction. It was tough work that meant lugging tools, wood, and stones all over Galilee. Jesus didn't simply stride onto the world stage after having dreamily examined a piece of wood when the mood suited him. For 18, he worked and he worked hard. Yeah. I bought yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Four, Jesus needed me time. Me time. Gospels frequently speak of Jesus need to withdraw from the crowds and even his disciples. Today, the Sea Of Galilee, where Jesus carried out much of his ministry, you can see how close the towns were and how natural it would have been for the enthusiastic crowds to press in on him as the gospels describe. There's even a cave on the shoreline not far from Capernaum, his base of operations where he may have prayed. It's called the Aramis Cave from the word for desolate or solitary from which we got the word hermit. Even though Jesus was the son of God, he needed time alone in prayer with the father. That probably would be the only call might have with that. It's not it's not him time. Really alone time so much as connecting with God. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He's not just like, everyone get away from me. I'm gonna veg out and be part of my own self. That's what that's looking to my inner self who's gonna tell me the same stupid crap that I screwed up yesterday. It was his idea. You know? Actually, I'm I'm I believe you're gonna see that number four creep up on expastors.com as a lot of the issues. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I think I think you're right about that. And last one, number five, and we touched on this a little bit. Jesus didn't want to die. As he approached his death and prays hard in the Garden Of Gethsemane, Jesus says remove this cup.

It's a blood I don't know. He got quoted as if that's exactly what he said. Hey. Remove this cup. It's a blunt prayer addressed to the father whom he affectionately calls Abba. He doesn't want to die. Unlike the way some Christians portray Jesus as courting death and even desiring it. Like any human being, the idea of death is terrifying. My soul is sorrowful even unto death, he says. I think think he's quoting a psalm there. In other words, I'm so sad that it feels like I'm going to die. But once Jesus realizes that this is somehow the will of the father see, I'm I'm having trouble with that. Once Jesus realized, oh, you know what? It is the will of the father. Alright. I don't even know how I got here. He ascends to death even on a cross. It's natural to want to know as much as we can about Jesus,

inappropriate semicolon. That's one reason I wrote my new book. Oh. Oh. Here we go. But where beware of the more outlandish claims about the son of God. He fathered children. He was married to Mary Magdalene. He spent time in India and so on. Here's here's what's interesting about that statement. Right? The things I believe are outlandish. Are they not? Yeah. I mean, isn't the story of Jesus an outlandish story? Yes. It is. So it'd be like, well, he was married. He spent time in India. He fathered children. Those really aren't outlandish claims except for the fact that they're pretty normal things that a dude would do compared to, say, a Jesus who did some outlandish things that those things actually don't fit in on. But it's weird to see outlandish attached to he got married, he had kids, and went to India. And then he really fell off the wagon and went to India. What?

Says many of these claims tend to project our own desires on a man who will always remain somewhat elusive. The elusive Jesus. Hard to fully understand and impossible to pin down. This is squirrelly. You know,

here's I don't know if Jesus is Scooby Doo on Facebook. He fills it out like, you are Scooby Doo. You know what I knew it. We got back to it. We got back to it. Okay. Here's the deal. I saw one Scooby Doo episode where Shaggy had a dream that Scooby had turned into a human, and they showed what he would look like as a human, and it was it was awesome. It was like the fulfillment of every childhood, you know, who grew up in the eighties. I was pretty jazzed about it. And he goes, dude, could I borrow your shades? And that's all he said, then the dream was over. Wait. Is it like a modern set. A modern Scooby Doo? Yeah. Yeah. It's a circus. The circus one. What's it called? I don't remember what it's called. I've actually been relatively impressed with the modern Scooby Doos. Like, a lot of times they they take they take the cartoons, and they they jack with them. Right? And they look terrible, and the the voices aren't right, and the music's not the same. The modern Scooby Doos are actually pretty good. Yep. They've done pretty well with them. Yeah. Folks, is only on life from the path that you can go from five things you didn't know about Jesus to the modern day Scooby Doo and how great they look. Here's the thing. People think Christians are weird, and it's not gonna be for this show. You're saying what? We're just regular dudes who love Jesus and Scooby Doo, in descending order. I love the apostle Paul crackling oat brand, and sometimes the old family matters reruns. That's what I do with my time. Can I do that?

Anybody? Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

Wagner has this So if leave Facebook, I don't get your invites to this anymore. That's gonna be a bummer. Yeah. I know where you live, kinda. You're listening Problem with being a pastor. You're listening to Live From The Path. I don't know. What what was the stuff I said that we're gonna talk about? What else did you not know? Oh, let's talk about the ex pastors. Because I I thought this was kind of an interesting deal, and then we can get to

then we can get the stories about how people read the Bible. Alright. So expastors.com. Now first of all, this is a pretty slick looking website, and it may not be what you think. I immediately walked into this thinking this was like a haven for people that left the church to, like, grouse about the church and be upset about how God's people treated him and probably about God too. That's not that. This is it's a ministry deal that some guys have put together to kinda help people that have left the ministry and provide support to people that are in it. So I think they're doing a very positive thing. But I was reading this article about why do so many pastors leave the ministry, and I thought some of these these facts were interesting. The first one says most pastors are overworked.

90% of pastors report working between fifty five to seventy five hours per week, and 50 percent feel unable to meet the demands of the job. Now it's a it's a very time intensive

lifestyle, but I think the word lifestyle there is important. Yeah. Like, what you've agreed to is is a way of living. It is not a job. If you clocked in if you if you thought you were walking into a a a war a job, right, a work where, like, you even tracking hours, I think, is a foolish thing. Like a like a guy that notices how many hours he's doing, I feel like that's just that's setting the wrong thought about what it is that you're agreeing to as a shepherd of people. Do I think do I think it's it's true that the pastors spend

an excessive excessive is not right. A lot of time, and they're pulled in so many different directions that it causes unhealth in other parts of life? Yes. I think that's very possible. It's very possible. But but thinking about ours, I think, is actually the wrong attitude.

Yeah. I mean, do you like like, you guys are are are both pastors. Do you find this to be an issue? Do you have do you have to revert back to it and go, hey. You know, I think I put in too much last week. I should tone it down this week. I I have never I've never thought that, but but I notice it. But but I I don't know. I protect that. Like, there are things that are to be a good pastor, I have to protect. I have to protect,

the relationship with my family. I have to protect my own sanity. I can't help people if I'm not if things aren't well with me. I have to protect my health. I have to protect my sleep. Like, you can't you can't help people if you're in a bad way. Yeah. I don't feel bad about it. If I do get that seventy five, eighty five hour week, you you know, you're just putting in the time. It's really emotionally intensive or you're really studying or you're really immersed in whether it be worship or counseling. I don't feel bad the next week if I have one four hour day. Yeah. But I don't but don't go, okay. Now I'm at four, then I'll be at twelve, then I'll be eighteen. I just you know what? I need a little Sabbath. Yeah. This afternoon, my load isn't that big. I'm gonna go home and see my kids for five minutes. Yeah. Maybe my wife if if I'm lucky. Yeah. I mean, if things pan out. Sure. Not if she's lucky, if I'm lucky. You know? But, yeah, I think counting hours, you get yourself into a a situation where you're trying to assign value to the amount of time you have. And you know what? You you decided to give your life to God in a very specific way. Yeah. And I I think that way is as often as he needs you. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And if you look at some of that, I think, is not having the right expectation of what you're agreeing to. You don't have to be a pastor. You can love Jesus and work at the seven eleven. A lot of people do. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, you're agreeing to a certain thing when you're a pastor. If you look look at how God uses people biblically, those guys tend to get through the ringer. Through the ringer. There's there's,

people are always like, I wish someone would wish God would talk to me the way he talked to, like, the prophets of old. Right? Have you seen those guys? Yeah. Like, that's terrible. Like, they they live a rough life. They're usually they're a Synag. Right? They're the guys who, like, God not only says, this is what things are gonna happen, but he makes you, like, work it out generally with your body as to how things are gonna go down. Yeah. Jeremiah was in a rough way. Elijah, rough way. You know? Like, I don't wanna be one of those guys. But, like, I don't know how you can if we walk into it and say, you know, I wanna I wanna be a pastor, like, either you were deceived or blind when you walked into it if you didn't think that you were gonna run into some rough stuff. Right. And it's Absolutely. And to have 90% of passers report, 50% feel unable to meet the demands of the job, that's I think that's reasonable,

because the demands are so high. But, like, I don't know, your attitude about it has got to be right. Like, just know what you're getting into. Like, don't don't be deceived about what that is. It's people are you're dealing primarily with people, and people are risky, rough business. That's what people are. They bring stuff in. Yeah. Always. Yeah. Always. And but, like, that's your gig. That's why God has you where he has you, or he doesn't have you there at all. Go go work this thing. Go go You worked outside of his blessings, and you decided you were gonna be a pastor without him saying okay. And now you're kinda taking the rough end of the stick. Yeah. Yeah. Says, seventy percent of pastors feel grossly underpaid.

Well, based upon while you're if you're approaching it from the from the work that work hour perspective, I think that that makes a lot of sense coming from that direction. Sure. I think a lot of pastors are underpaid, honestly. I think I think a lot of times, we expect pastors to work,

like, by the by the skin of their teeth. You wanna cause a guy problems where he's not able to help you and and lead the congregation well, make that guy worry about money all the time. Now he shouldn't be swimming it. Like, I I my guess is he's got better stuff to do with his money than swim around in it Scrooge McDuck style. Right? But, like, I mean, there's there's guys earning, what, $22 a year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's rich in Ethiopia, but he don't live in Ethiopia. He can live on the street for twenty two, maybe a little a tiny apartment. So, I mean, like, there's there's a balance there, but there are a lot of there there is a problem with that. There's a problem with it the other way, but I think there is an issue where a lot of passers are are grossly underpaid, and they spend a lot of time, a lot of time struggling with finances. It's And hard for them, frankly, to focus on other things because, like, their kids still have to eat. They still have responsibilities outside of the church. And as a church family, we should be taking care of that. Most pastors feel unprepared.

What are your thoughts, Mike? Well, I mean, here's the deal. I don't know how y'all do that job anyway. I mean, it's very high. It says ninety percent feel they're inadequately trained to cope with the ministry demands, and ninety percent of pastors said the ministry was completely different than what they thought it would be like before they entered the ministry. Here's the thing that I like like, I can throw down on some teaching the bible.

I can't throw down on counseling, talking to people when they're you here's the deal. Because, like, I've I've tried this before, and it fails. I I think I I used to think that that, talking to people, when they're having a rough time would kinda been so easy. Right? Because I know the answer. The answer is you need to be in a relationship with Jesus, and they're like, well, that sounds lame, and that then that's not the deal. You don't really understand my problem. I'm like, I understand it. You you need Jesus. He may know, God made the world you know, I'm telling you. It never works that way. And that, like, it never it never works. You know what I'm saying? Like like, I know it's the right answer, but, you you know, it just it doesn't work like I thought it would. I thought, well, you know, Jesus fixed me. Jesus fixed everybody I know. I I I that's the deal. And they're always like, you don't you don't understand my problems. You're you're not even listening to me. You're just saying the same thing 10 other people said. I don't I don't wanna hear it. You know? And so, like, I always thought the counseling end was the easiest part, and the teaching was where you really had to struggle. And now I realized I I think it's all flipped around. You know, like the the teaching I could you can throw down. It's just you and God. You you pray and you read and you say, Lord, tell me what you want me to tell your people. That seems easy. Because it's just you and God. As soon as people are introduced, that's where it falls off the rails for me. I just don't I don't know how to do it. I don't I don't know how you guys do it. And I could see that, like, because you don't know when you don't know when someone's gonna have a crisis. You know, if your Saturday is your sermon writing day and, you know, all of a sudden, you know, so and so left his wife and his two kids and they got no money in their family. You know? You're involved. Right? You're in. You love people. You shepherd. And so, you know, hopefully, you keep a sermon in the back burner. Is that how it works? You guys keep one in the safe? In Back pocket. Back pocket. Just in case. Have you always been a pastor? No. No. No. And that I'm bivocational. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't always a pastor either. And so I sometimes when I'll have, you know, passed to our friends, quote unquote,

hey. I'm eating I'm getting burned out. Hey. I'm not ready for all these changes. Hey. I'm underprepared. I think that happens in every vocation Yeah. At some point. Right? You know, you go to a job site as a construction worker and they say, by the way, change the plans today and you gotta start this part over. Woah. I was not prepared Right. For this. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's gonna happen everywhere. It's just how you deal with it. Yeah. And and if you're someone who can deal with change quickly, I think being a pastor, you have to be able to deal with change very, very quickly. Yeah. Contextual change, relationship change, you know, person to person, conversational change, that kind of dynamic of balancing. Yeah. How do I offer the truth in such a way that you're actually gonna listen it Yeah. Right now and not just kinda turn it Do you know how to do that, John? I'm working on it. Because I could use some help.

We'll we'll go to commercial. Come back and back get it. How to talk to people about Jesus with John Wagner. It's a separate show. It happens right after this. Let's see. That that's that's too that's too Can we flip back? I wanna flip back to the money one. Yeah. Hey. To the money one. Hey. Been thinking about it. Okay. We're here scratching my face. I rubbed myself raw during the whole time. K.

You know, I think either one of us would be lying if we didn't say that it had never crossed our mind. Yeah. You know, I don't want people also to think that, you know, pastors sit back on the back chair, the ones who are good and they say, I'm not worried about money. It never crossed my mind. I never think, what if I made more? Am I gonna make less money? But I know from a personal perspective, and I think that everyone can relate to this, that when I'm thinking about that, it's usually because of envy or greed. Yeah. It isn't because I'm not making ends meet. It's not because I don't think I'm being paid fairly. It's because my eye caught something I don't have. Oh, yeah. Or my my heart caught something it's not supposed to have a hold of. Yeah. You know? And so it's when I I have to backtrack. I mean, quick. Or else I do. Just like anybody else, I follow that pattern of, well, how can I make more money then? Yeah. You know, I go, I wanna sell some Advocate. I don't do that. But, know Yeah. Right. I've gotta find some other women. I have get plasma every other day so I can get whatever it is that everyone else has that I want because I see it. It looks good. It looks fun. So Yep. I think it's the same sin of of greed, envy, pride, all that stuff that causes

even pastors, you know, deep breaths. Woah. Wait a minute. Yeah. Fall into that kind of man. Maybe I don't make enough money. Yeah. Maybe I could use a little more. Maybe I could use a little more. Maybe someone's making more than me across town. You know, it's hard. Isn't that the perspective change, though, is is like when that shows up instead of instead of doubling down on, no. I you know, I really do need this. You're like, woah. What what happened to me here? You know what I'm saying? Like like, I've I've well, that's part of keep rolling. Keep rolling. I got post down. My bad. I pulled you out. I pulled you out. My fault. Let's see. I I was the the one thing I was gonna say is that it was 90% of pastors, say they feel unprepared or that the ministry was completely different than what they thought it would be. And so coming from coming from

non church work, and then moving into the pastorate, like, I can't imagine having gone another direction. I can't imagine I've seen some guys come straight out of college and, like, and they got a church and, like, they're the pastor of that church. That would scare the crap out of me. Just the flying poops would scare out of me to, like, rock and and your job is to lead a bunch of people. You're you're young. They're probably twice your age. You have no experience doing that. And I've I've seen a lot of churches where they they've expected the pastor to be like a guy that knows everything about everything. And, like, that's just that's not that's not the guy. The poor guy is trying to do a bunch of stuff that he has no idea what to do. And, and some of that's a a bad expectation, but, like,

some of it is is that we I don't Some of our system is to pass people into his to a structure, where they didn't have time to mature into it before they did it. And and that's why lot of mentoring That's right. In the pastor game. That's right. You don't send young pastor John off to some hotshot pastor somewhere to teach him. You send him to a little church in the middle of nowhere and say, good luck. Yeah. Right. Good luck with those guys. Yeah. In fact, that's one of the things I was talking with Dan with. And one of the things where I lack a lot of experience is,

you know, let's say you get the call and somebody's been in a in a car accident. Right. I my my instinct is to go, I have no idea what to say to that guy. Yeah. Like, what what what you know, some guy says, hey. Hey. I wanna I wanna talk to you about, about baptism. You know? What what how do you start that? Like, I know what I know the conversation to have. Right. I don't know how to start it. I'm lame. I'm not a people guy. I don't think it's so much that you're lame either. Even if you go and watch it. I work at a fairly large church, and so I had the blessing of going with other pastors the first few times, and, we're gonna go meet with a family. They said someone passed away. Yeah. We're working out of the hospital. Someone's in really bad shape. But until you say those words yourself for the first time, you could watch it a million times on YouTube, you could go sit with somebody. YouTube watching people give you know? Google it. You

know? It's probably a tangent off the X Passer site. No. But until you do it yourself, there's just nothing quite like having to speak those words Yeah. On your own. You learn from that. Yeah. It's good. Said many pastors struggle with depression and discouragement. Seventy percent of pastors constantly fight depression, and fifty percent of pastors feel so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could, but have no other way to make a living. Fifty percent of pastors. Okay. This is where I'm gonna call the pansy card. Like, you've been called you have been called to lead God's people. Like, that's your that's your gig. Not not, hey. I'm discouraged. I'm gonna bail. I'm not saying the people won't discourage you. I'm with you. Yeah. Who's the guy that married the the prostitute? Which one? Who am I thinking of? Donald Trump. Prophet. No. No. No. No. The prophet.

Like, pop culture? On. Where's Hudson when I need him? You're talking old testament. Yeah. He had to had to they he's Gomer. Yes. Gomer was the prostitute. And it was come on, Wagner. No. You I'm sorry. I can't drop names. Be just I don't my mom's name. Don't what I'm saying. Who

remember? Hosea. Hosea. There we go. Okay. Of course. Okay. So Hosea was forced to marry Gomer as an example. Alright. Now you tell me he would even feel a little discouraged from time to time. Yeah. And so I just I don't know. Put some God has given you a position of strength to do it. Do it. Separate though for a minute too, just in case somebody's listening. Predisposition to depression, you know, chemical issues. Yeah. And I am depressed about my job. Yeah. You know, because you walk in and you have some predispositions to getting down on yourself, feeling bad about who you are, having self confidence issues. Oh, man, you're gonna get beat. No. That yeah. No. You will get beat up. Agreed. No. And that's that's really hard. Agreed. Again, it kinda comes back to that first thing you brought up. You kinda knew what you were getting to when you started. Yeah. Or maybe they didn't. 90% fell unprepared. We're failing these guys. Yeah. We're sending them out to the wolves and be like, you're supposed to be the you're supposed to be the Well, mean, they got some culpability in there too. Like, we're not I mean, you know, we're failing them. Like, I mean, I I can tell right now that I'm not built for this gig. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm glad y'all do it. I'm not built for that. But, like, if I was gonna do it, I certainly wouldn't walk in blind with just me and my talents. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'd have to follow a guy around for a little while. I'm like, I a lot of talent, you old. I know. I can't I can't even do the door. One hand. Got this. The faster door is small. Can't fit my talents.

But, like, you know I'm saying? Like, I there's no job I do with that. I don't just you know, I start bidding concrete work. I don't know how to do concrete. You know I'm saying? But, like, I'll figure it out when I get there. That's dumb. Like, that's just foolish to start. So speaking of families, most pastors' families are negatively impacted. 80% believe pastoral ministry has negatively affected their families. 80% of spouses feel the pastor is overworked and feel left out and underappreciated by church members. I always think that would be the number one issue.

I think it it's a very yes and no. Because it takes a lot of time. Right? No. No. It does. It's it's it's a yes and no, but, like, I I don't know. Don't let the sheep beat you up. I mean, protect your family. Like, you're like, be conscious of that. I I think

I think you every pastor has a situation, where it it could put your family at risk. I mean, you you just you gotta be firm. You gotta protect that stuff. Right? And you have to know that. Now there will be seasons where where things kinda come and go, and things are impacted more than ours. I've been through some of those. But, but, I mean, you gotta be conscious of that. And and and and maybe the the thing is is which I think we'll get to the next one. It says pastors are lonely. 70% do not have someone they consider a close friend. Like, do you got people in your life that are like, hey, man. I feel like

I I I can tell that you've been working a lot. How's your family? How are you and your family? You know what saying? Because, like, you you will get caught up in that. But other people's problems are thick. They'll get thick. And, and it's easy to get caught up into that stuff. And, I mean, do you have someone around you that's willing to kinda grab you and say, hey, man. How's your family doing? You gotta step away. I know they got there's all this stuff going on, but you're gonna have to pull back. Your responsibility is to your family. Yeah. Well, I guess I feel blessed. I came into the ministry seven years after working in corporate America. I worked at downtown insurance company. And so when it wasn't like I had made a choice or I felt called by God to be a pastor and then I met my wife. Yeah. And she was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. You know, I talked about it with her. Yeah. Like, is this something that we can do together? Will you support me in this? Will you pray for me? And I'm blessed that she said yes. Gonna be hard, but I will pray with you and we'll do this together and and I'll be your partner. So perhaps some of the, marital unrest

Yeah. If you if you find if you find someone you meet someone, oh, you're a pastor. Hey. That's gonna be interesting. Well, let's give it a run. Yeah. Yeah. But I Here's the here's the situation that I find home without talking. No. You know what I mean? Like, this is a life a life change, you know, a life decision. Like like like, I see that I could see this as being a definite possibility is you have serial people, like, within your within your the people that you're shepherding over that are like, they're always in need. Doesn't matter what happens. You know what I'm saying? Like, every every two days, it's something outrageous or ridiculous, you know, and and, like, you set that fence up to protect your family, but you you always go. You don't say you always go. You kinda always go. And, like, I could see if if my wife was doing that all the time, you know, she had some kind of wayward problem and, like, look, we know how this is gonna end. Can you just not go this time? You know I'm saying? And, like but you still go. And I that's where I could see it, you know, breeding some issue. And, like Yeah. Once again, I ain't geared up for this job, so I can Yeah. Be honest, and I just feel that way. You know what I'm saying? Y'all gotta straighten that out of your place, but I don't have to worry about it because people don't call me.

But but that's where I could see it causing problems. You know what I'm saying? Like because because your mean, your wife is no fool. She sees the writing on the wall. She knows what the deal is. But, like, you know, you leave the one for the 99. The sheep are the sheep, and so you go. Yeah. And so that that's where I could see the con that's where I could see the issue being. And and I I suppose, like, there's there's I wanna be very harsh and then very loving here. It's like, I've not I've not seen everything. There's guys that have been doing past their work for significantly longer than I have and maybe even shorter that have seen things that I I couldn't even imagine dealing with. Yeah. That's the truth. Yep.

Even so, I feel like I feel like the basics are the basics here. I mean, like, if God has called you to that, he's he's also called you to do it well. And sometimes doing it well is is is you don't you don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of the church. You you serve God. And sometimes, what is serving those people is to take care of yourself better, is to is to make sure you're taking care of your family. You can't be you can't be a good example doing the wrong things for the right reasons. It just doesn't work that way.

And you know what? Twenty years from now, maybe I'll speak differently. Maybe I'll I'll be jaded and I'll change it. But, like, I feel like the simple answer is simple answers. And and the surprise

worries me to a certain extent that we're that we have so many guys that are in entering the pastor that that, like, are so surprised at what that is. And I I don't know how to how that changes. And I and I I don't know. I I struggle for these guys who've entered and had this ideal of of what it was gonna be like. And then what it says 50% of the ministers starting out will not last five years. Five years and they're gone. One out of every 10 will actually retire as a minister in some form. One out of 10

will start and then retire as a minister. That's pretty low. And 4,000 new churches begin each year while 7,000 close. That's rough. That's rough. That's right. It's Ben Wagner in the room. One of us is going down. One of us ain't making it. What? Oh, crap. Either that or we need to find 18 other guys who don't like it. So anyway, just thought I thought that was interesting. I thought it's an interesting perspective, especially if you're coming from, like, a non you're not a pastor and seeing kind of the things that some of these guys are struggling with. And something else we don't talk about, I think, enough as pastors is, do you have a season?

You know, is is has God called you to be a pastor for the rest of your life? Or has God called you to be a pastor for a time and then calls you to something else? There was a comment that you read something about how they felt like they couldn't leave because they couldn't get another job. Yeah. You know, but so if you're in that spot where you're like, boy, I'm just bad at my job. I'm not a good pastor. I'm not helping people. I'm not preaching effectively, but I'm gonna stay because Right. I I need a job. I I think you you work with your church. You work with your friends. You find some connections. You get ahold of whatever kind of denomination you're involved in. Yeah. You get some help and say, is there anything else I can be doing? Yeah. Can I do something else? Yeah. Definitely. Work in the administration. I feel like the Lord will almost just bless you stopping leading his people correctly. Right. You know? Like, even if you made a mistake, I mean, god's I mean, he still got a heart for you. He still loves you. You know? And so, like, you making the solid decision to be like, I'm not being helpful to your kingdom in this area. Put me where I belong. Even if it's in the janitorial staff, that's where I wanna be. I wanna glorify you, and right now, I'm having a hard time doing that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. Alright. You're listening to Life the Path. By way, Life of the Path is brought to you by the Eisenhower team. Go to eisenhowerteam.com.

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here's the deal. I love Bob. Bob will tell you better than I will. He knows whether to buy a house or not. He knows what to sell your house for. I like dealing with Bob because he's pretty straight with you. Like, you if your house is worth $1.20, he's not gonna be like, oh, yeah. We could put it up for $1.50. Yeah. I tried that with him, actually. I said, Bob, I wanna sell for $1.75. He goes, this house was $1.30, Mike. And you're looking at six months at that price. I'm like, alright. That's fair. $1.25. Yeah. I just Bob's a great guy to deal with. He's been on the show a few times, and he's a good friend. And, and he just he knows what he's doing. And so if you need buy and sell in a home, Bob Eisenhower is the guy to go to. Go to Eisenhower team dot com. You can learn about him as, his phone numbers are posted to the website. And, and, if nothing else, give him a call, send him a text, send him an email, go to his house late late late at night He's old enough. So that he will remember that you said, I heard about you on life in the past. Absolutely. Also, Westfield Veterinary Hospital here in Johnston. So here's the deal. My dog is I I I can't do with this thing anymore. The dog you know, when dogs get older, they start to get, like, growths on them. Some dogs do. They get little.

Just got a dog, so don't talk about that. Might be Still little. It's a growth happening. A boba. Oh, boy. My but the the the brown dog I got, it's got the I mean, a giant something. It's the size of a golf ball. Yeah. I mean, it's huge. And we've gone we've kinda taken him in before, and they were pretty cool about it. They they kinda looked at it and said, well, you know, you could take it off if you wanted to, but if she's not bothering her or whatever, not a big deal. Problem is it's kind of it's it's it's by her hind. Oh. And she keeps leaving remnants on it. Oh, no. And and I'm thought, I can't I can't do we can't do this anymore. We can't do this stuff anymore. So I think we're gonna have to take him in and and and we're going to Westfield. I'm to Westfield Veterinary Hospital. That's the deal. That's how we get back. That's the deal. It's because, like, they, you know, they they know our dogs. They don't like remnants. They've given us they've they've taken great care of us in the past. And

and as the situation changes, like, that's that's just where we're gonna go. So I go to Westfield Veterinary Hospital. It's westfieldvethospital.com, and, you can set up an appointment online. And if you didn't so we're we're past dental month. February was dental month, and I feel like you didn't go. Yeah. In fact, I'm certain you didn't go, you lazy lazy man. That's right. Them Doritos ain't cleaning the dog's teeth. You know better than that. Yeah. Yeah. They don't lick themselves clean. You know, you you brush twice a day and floss. You left the dog on his own. Yeah. Green plastic toothbrush that came in a dog bag. Seriously, you know that ain't cleaning nothing. That's ridiculous. You know, get on the train, get them their shots, and and help get them up to date on their on their dental stuff. You you've had a toothache. Right? Like, your tooth your dog can't whine or Oh, yeah. I know what you're saying. Yeah. So the dog got a toothache. He can't do anything about it. He's sitting in pain. You know what your fix is when your dog has a toothache? Let him outside. Yeah. You think everything gets fixed outside like it's some kind of magic fairyland out there. As soon as the dog shows up, he must wanna go out. Yeah. Oh, that didn't fix it. You want something to eat? You know what I'm saying? Two things that don't help a dog with a toothache, food and cold. Yeah. Like, and these were your plan. Take the dog into the vet. Go to the vet hospital

dot com, and they can help you out with Be ashamed of yourself. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Mike, you got some Pope style? I do. Okay. We can't believe we couldn't identify Jose and Goomer. So the premise of the Pope style advice is, let's say for for some oddball reason, people mistook my house for a location of where the pope is. They got somebody put put a bug in their air, gossip happened way off track. They're like the pope's in there. And now there's 10,000 people gathered on my front lawn. And, regardless of whether I'm the actual pope or not, they're not leaving. They wanna hear some words of wisdom, some some things to live by, and some things to how they're gonna do well, go go today and change the way that they're living. And so, so that's the premise of the pope style advice, and, actually, here's mine for the week. Sometimes

I find it very easy, to lull in the middle with my relationship, with God. And and what I mean by that is is like and you'll see this a lot with kids that grew up in the church.

And, is what you'll see is you'll you'll have you'll have all the baseline knowledge and you'll have heard ways of which people, have allowed Christ to change their life. But it's got no shine on it for you right now. You know what I'm saying? That you don't you've you've lost your awe

of God. Like, the fact that that, Jesus died for you is you can accept that, but you're not awed by it anymore. You're not blown away by it. You you don't see it as, for what it was. And, actually, I found,

I found myself in this position for I mean, I'll be honest, for the last couple weeks, that's kinda where I've been. My bible wasn't popping out at me. My prayer life is is is sour. I it just is. Like, I want nothing more than to connect with god, but I don't have time, I think. You know, and I'll give it a shot and I won't feel that shine and that awe, and I'll be like, you know, it's it's staying working. And

here's my pope style advice, and I'm I'm I'm struggling to take it myself. So, you know, don't take this too far to heart. But my pope style advice is is that when that happens because I think it happens to everybody. Hopefully, it's not just me. I think it happens to everybody. But if you can take a step back and take a look back at that time when you first

heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and take and try to try to lose everything you've learned since then. Right? Like, I know a lot about the apostle Paul. I know a lot about what happened in between the the old and the New Testament. You know I'm saying? I have a lot of knowledge because it was important to me. I know a lot about the book of Luke because I studied it chapter by chapter. Right? Knowledge I have. Heart I'm losing. And it's because I changed my perspective of who Jesus was to me. I changed him, from being the ruler of a kingdom that I wanted to be in

and, you know, the person that invited me to come in in the first place, to just a guy that that exists in my neighborhood. And I I know that kinda sounds weird, and I don't know if that's making a whole lot of sense to you, but but

there's there just comes there comes a time that that he starts to be part of your life and not not ruler of your life, not king of your life and just kind of there. And like I said, I'm kinda going through that right now and I I found that, like, I'm it's turning around for me because I I changed my perspective

on on how I saw him. I realized that that, you know, I want nothing more than to be in his kingdom. And I want nothing more than to have him as as my ruler. I just I I I took him down and I put him down with me like we were just buds and we were just hanging out. And if I didn't talk to him that day, wasn't that big of a deal. And I really didn't need direction from him. I got it for today. I I got today. I just won't sin. You know? And then and then what happens is you start to measure

how close you are to Jesus based on how often or how badly you sin. You know what I'm saying? And then your whole relationship is predicated on something that you will inevitably do. You will inevitably separate yourself from God by sinning. It's gonna happen. Now as you progress your relationship with Jesus Christ, it it hopefully will become less. And you will become more like him, and and and he will help shed the ways that you that you used to call your own, and they will make him his. But when you start judging where your position is with Christ based on that, then you are always gonna be disappointed and you're always gonna feel far from him. And that's not the deal. Like, he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't look at your relationship that way. And so I guess my pope style advice for this week is is that if you're struggling in the same way that I am currently

or or was, you were struggling that way. Do yourself a favor and try to forget everything that you've gained throughout your relationship with Christ and and and go right back to the beginning when when it it it it had a lot of that that grace that he was offering and that opportunity that he was offering you had a had a lot of shine on it. Remember what it looked like when you got it and not not what it's become or what it's or that it that hasn't really lost its luster. It's the exact same gift that it's always been. You've just you're looking at it differently. And so I don't know if that I don't know if that'll quite hit as hard on everybody as it did me, but, like, that's what's that's what's kinda shaken me up kinda in the last week. Because it's like I said, it's happened to me. I mean, let's be honest. I spend a lot of time around people that love Jesus. And after a while,

you know, it it get be it gets to become mundane. You know what I'm saying? Someone shows up and said, you know, I prayed and and God healed my son. He was gonna die. He had cancer. He's six months old. And then two months later, we're cancer free. We got nothing. And I go, yeah. That's what he does. That's what does. You know, he's in the business of that, you know. And, like, that's true. And, like like, for my justification, I'm like, I would expect nothing less from God because he's just awesome. Right? But, like, do I feel that shine of what he really did, what he really did there and and and the effects of what he did as it spread out for his glory and the joy of his people? Like, that's the shine that starts to lose. And it's not because it's not there. It's just because I'm not looking at it. Yeah. So, anyway, that's my pop style advice. John, you ever you ever felt that in your life? Like, you go through seasons of that? Absolutely.

Holy cow. Like, you were just preaching at me, by the way, the last two times I've been here. You've done that to me, and I walk away feeling, like, either really good or really small. Right. Yeah. Both. I do that to myself too, don't you? Don't worry about it. That whole you can't be a pastor thing, that's bunch of malarkey. No. Absolutely. And you know what? For me, we're gonna go full circle. The whole fully human, fully divine thing. Yeah. I think we we spend time not only preaching it, but trying to encourage people that, you know, God wants to walk with you. That Jesus came to this earth to to be a man so he would know what your life might be like, so he can relate to you and he wants to be your friend,

you know, and so you kind of build that relationship with God that's on your own level. Yeah. Like, there's Jesus walking next to me every day. Oh, Jesus came with me. Holy Spirit's with me. And we forget to kind of think, just time out for a minute. Like, this is the same God who created everything. Yeah. Whether he snapped his fingers, whether it was seven days, seven billion years, it it doesn't matter. Who cares? Yeah. You know what I mean? This is the God who created everything and then sent his son not just to be like you, but to be your king, you know, to be your lord. And definitely,

you you work in the church. So all you hear about every day, and it's a great thing. What what an awesome blessing it is to have almost all my time every day be hearing about what's happening in the church, who loves Jesus, who's coming to know Jesus, who's fallen away, we should go talk to this How should I be studying Jesus every single day? But, you know, when you watch the same movie over and over, your favorite favorite favorite movie, you put it back in, you're like, oh, man. I can't believe I watched this, like, 15 times. I know this scene. There's nothing in that for me right now. You almost do have to kind of take a step back. And I love the way you said that. Go back to when you first heard the good news, when you first got that glimpse of, you mean you mean Jesus did that for me? Yeah. And and recapture that just for a second and see what that does to the knowledge that you've gained. Yeah. I've been there too many times too many times

where it feels like my prayers are just kind of one way prayers, and I don't stop. Like, well, I'm not getting anything out of this right now. Right. I feel like we'll do this later, I guess. Yep. Hopefully by Sunday, you'll come talk to me, and we'll have something profound to say. Yeah. And You know what? And sometimes sometimes we almost predicate we we cause our own trouble within the way that we organize our church, but, like, communion's the big deal. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I figure, well, we'll straighten this out in the thirty seconds prior to communion before pastor Mann interrupts my prayer for his own prayer. You know what saying? Yeah. Like, you know, they wanna take my juice right now. I wanna keep it. You know, let me let me keep it for a minute. Second to think about this. By the time I get my you know, look, I've not been anywhere close to you. Okay. Let's all pray together. Lord, thank you for our gathering. I'm like, I wasn't done. You know? I just wanna cracker and juice myself, you know? But but, like, sometimes we make it and I'm not passionate or comedian. Like, I'm good with it. I'm just saying that, like, sometimes we we take that event

and and make it bigger than it is. Like, it's a celebration of us being in the kingdom and how the kingdom was established and remembering how that went down. But, like, if you're doing all your if you're if you're doing all your entire relationship with God in forty five seconds before the juice goes down,

you don't know. You don't know. You know, I'd skip it. I'll be honest with you. I would skip communion if if if that's your deal. The other thing I like I'm not gonna skip off communion, but the other thing I like what you said I'm a I'm a John used it. I love I love communion. It's short. It's fine. Whatever. I love what you said about,

if you make your whole life about not sinning, you're always gonna set yourself up to be disappointed. Yeah. You know, you come back to when Jesus is talking, he says, I'm gonna sum up all the law with this, you know, love God, love your neighbor, you know, with everything you got. Yeah. He could have said, don't sin. Right. Do the right thing all Don't make mistakes. Yeah. And this is gonna work out great, you know. But adore me, like, first. And then treat other people right, you know. And and and I fall in that same trap too. Like, I start to measure, what's my progress in my faith life this week? Have I prayed more like I said I would? Yeah. I read my Bible seven more times like I said I would? If I spent the extra 15 in prayer, crap, I fell short. And here's the other place I fell short. Oops. Unless I gotta talk to this person like I shouldn't have. And boom boom boom boom boom. And all of a sudden my life has become, have I lived up to this expectation I think God has for me? That's right. Yeah. You know, can I cross this off and yeah? You gotta get away from that. Worship God. Who is he? Your savior.

Give your life to him. Get back to that spy, and let the rest of it kinda fall back into place. You're listening to Life The Path. Hey. If you're on 99.3, we gotta let you go. We got more show to come here on the podcast, and, thank you for listening to Life From The Path. Oh, yeah. We still talking. Me, Wagner, need to talk later.

I just hit him. He didn't like that. Oh, yeah. Dan tried to hit me once. When I sent him the text. Once. I I

think there's a lot I think there's a lot to that that pope style, Mike. I think I think everybody go I think I I like John Naylor. I think everybody goes through that type of thing. And and, like like, what's the a lot of times we look at what the book of James, and we're talking about, you know, persecution and stuff. But I I don't think that's just persecution from, like, guys that were bold in the faith. You know? Like, this is talking about, you know, stay Paul's talking to stay the course, not James. But Paul's talking to you, you'll stay the course. You're you're going to you're going to hear people saying other things. You're gonna get distracted. Life is gonna happen around you, and it's gonna pull your eyes off the thing that you heard. I it's it's weird that you're saying that because, like, I've I've I've felt almost that exact same thing these last two weeks. Maybe last three weeks. Dang. John Wagner too. Hand up. We all struggling. Rough times in the room night. And here's here's the deal. It's not that I don't believe that God is who he says he is. I totally do. I believe everything that Jesus died on the cross, I'm in. I'm the textbook box checker. I I win. But,

like, I've been struggling this week where, like, I would catch myself praying, and I'm like, I'm sorry, God. I'm kinda talking at you. I'm just like Right. You know? And I I meant everything I said,

but, like, I'm just and I'm not looking for some other worldly experience. I'm not looking for a, you know, a belly tickle. But, like, felt that I was trying hard, but but still that I was kind of mailing it in. And, and I've been I've I've been fighting that over the last few weeks. And and when you were talking about

when you were talking about, you know, measuring the the health of your relationship by by how much you sin or not, I I was trying to think is, like, how do you you reorient that, right, by by loving God and loving your neighbor. And then, like, how passionately in the light of that, then how passionately are you seeking restoration with both? Right? As opposed to, hey, man. Crap. I screwed this up again. Crap. I you know, I was I was like this way to this person, or I failed God in this way. You know, do I look at it as as how much I stink, or do I look and say, you know what?

How boldly can I pursue restoration? Hey. I I screwed up. Where's the guy that I that I offended? You know what? Yeah. That ain't no doubt. Because here's the deal. Like, that's what reinvigorates your relationship with God. That's what reinvigorates your life is when you're willing to say, here's the deal. Most people love you as long as you agree with them. As soon as you don't agree with them, their love fades a little bit. Like, they can't accept love like that that disagrees with them. They'll love you as long as you're on board with what they're doing. As soon as you tell them something different, they decide to buck up and leave. Yeah. Or say, we're done. I'm gonna ignore you for a while. Right? You don't love me. Right. You want you wanna see some change in your life. You let the holy spirit convict you and you go, you know what? Dang. That is totally me. I'm gonna fix it right now. Yeah. I don't care how embarrassing it is or who I have to tell or what I look like. Because if the holy spirit didn't think it was important, he wouldn't have put it on my heart. You know what I'm saying? He wouldn't have said, this is this is what's separating you from me. This is what's separating you from being where you need to be. I'm not kicking you out of the kingdom. Yeah. I'm just saying you're scrubbing the toilets until you can fix this and and get where I I can really use you because I built you for a reason, and it wasn't for what you're doing. That's right. I've never felt stronger as a parent than when I was apologizing to my kids. No. I've never. Like, I I felt just like, hey. I screwed up. I didn't handle this the way I should have. I didn't lead you well. I haven't been focusing my attention. I was looking at the Facebook when I should have been talking to you, and I failed you, and I'm sorry. And and and I I will do better. I mean, like and I walk away from it thinking that was that easy. It was that easy to be like and my kids probably didn't even notice. Right? But, like,

it's it's relieving to to see where God has called you to say, hey, man. These things there's restoration here. These things are keeping you from the full measure that I've called you to. And you've settled for less, and I don't want you to settle for less. I want you to settle for the peace. I want you to settle for the joy. I want you to settle for the movement of my kingdom, and you settled for less. And that's not I don't want you to live that way. It's not he's not got the whip out saying live better. Live better. That's right. He's saying I created something that is so much more than what you've accepted, and I want you I wanna call you to something bigger and be a part of what I'm doing and restore that thing. And, like, that's a bold way of living. It's a bold way of living as opposed to hiding away from that stuff or calling it not what it is and saying, oh, no. I'm not screwing up or I'm not doing those things wrong. Right? Like, living boldly is to say, I am, and I'm looking forward to it being different. That's right. And I you know what? And and, like, I most most of the kickback I get this goes back to me not being able to talk to people effectively about Jesus. Right? But, like, most of the kick most of the kickback I get is like, yeah. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about kingdom credits to me. I don't see how that affects the way like like my life. Like, great. God loves me.

I'm gonna have all kinds of trouble. Here's what I can promise you. Like, I have done some terrible things

to my employer. I have wasted their money. I have not done a good job when a a good job was available. You know what I'm saying? I've I've I've done something that I shouldn't have done. I've made mistakes that cost them a lot of money. And every time, I always face that seesaw. Well, I can hide this and they'll never know, or I could tell them the truth. I promise you truth always wins. Like, I I promise you it always wins because I I it's never in question whether I'm lying to them. Like, it's it's just like, for example, let's say there's 50 missing. And when when I accidentally broke something for that that's gonna cost the company $5, I walked right in and I say, I made a mistake. I wasn't paying attention. It's gonna cost you $5. It's on me. I did that. Right? When when the next big mistake shows up, they say, Mike, did you do that? I said, no. And they go, okay. You know what I'm saying? I'm not on the horn for the $50 because I told the truth at the 5. Right? It's almost the exact opposite of, those can be trusted with little can be trusted with with with more. Right? Like, if I'm willing to be honest in the little things, the big things don't come to my doorstep. The peep they don't accuse me of anything. And, like, this is true with your relationships, with your kids and with your wife and with people and with your job. It flows over to everything, and it's so simple as as as just being honest. When it says love, love God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength, that's an honest love. When it says love people, here's the deal. There's some people I can't provide that love to, and I'm not so foolish to think that I can. Right? Go after the people that God has assigned me to or God has said, I need you to go talk to those people. But, like,

it's a lie for me to go outside of what God has created me to do. And, like, he's he gives me good categorization. He gives me good boundaries. Like, for example, when I said I'm not built to be a pastor, there's things I'm not able to do. I love to talk about the bible. I love to teach people about Jesus. Right? I am terrible when it comes to counseling. I'm just am. I have my moments. Most of the time, I I'm just not good at it. Right? And I'm totally okay with that. He puts certain people on my path. If if they need to be yelled at or shamed in some way, and that would be for god's glory and their joy, he'll send to me. Right? If if they need a shoulder to cry on, I will slowly back out of the room and call someone else. Until they get here, I'll wait, but I'm not sticking around. That's where those guys are coming from. That's right. I will if the if the silence gets more than thirty seconds, I'll crack a joke. Not the right time. Right? But that's all I'm that's what I'm built for. And I'm not saying it's good excuse to be a dolert, but I'm just saying that's like what that's just what God has built me to be, and I know that about me. Right? And so I I I like I said, I get a lot of kickback when I talk about the kingdom. They're like they they don't see the kingdom for what it is, which is right here, right now, in the world, not of the world. Like, when I say that, like, when you're living in the kingdom, everything changes. It it it honestly does. Like that that small piddly business that buried you, it just doesn't matter. It is it's seriously small piddly business. When you're working for the king and when you're living in the kingdom, the stuff that surrounds is just so small. It's just so small. God's he's just he's huge when it comes to that stuff.

Dang. I'm getting fired back up right now. We just need to talk about Jesus more often, and I get out of my slump. We'll just call together a meeting of the minds or something. Dang. Alright. I got some people to apologize to tomorrow. You're

listening to life from the path onlifefromthepath.org. You know, repent of your ways. Do repent of your ways. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the deal. Don't we we I just talked about this last week with some people in our youth group. Like like, you know, they they hear the word repent and they're like, feel guilty. Feel bad. I'm like, don't you fall down there. Because that's right where the devil wants you because you won't do nothing. Right? You're like, I'm terrible. I do bad things. God's mad at me. Well, here's the deal. God wanted something better for you. That's what he wanted. They're like, does that mean God's disappointed in me? And I said, no. He's disappointed that you don't have better right now. That's it. It's it's like He still loves you. It's here's the deal. It's like okay. This is a rough comparison, but this is what popped into my head. Alright?

It's it's like there's a guy's running a roller coaster. There's lots of there's lots of lots of cool stuff going down in the roller coaster, and you're standing outside the gate. And he says, okay, everybody come in for the roller coaster and and you don't move. And then five minutes later, you he comes out and he says, hey, man. No. Seriously. Go ahead. Come on into the roller coaster. You're like, oh, but now you're upset with me because I didn't go on the roller coaster five minutes ago, and I'm not sure I should go now. And, like, I really screwed that. Oh, crap. Yeah. Like, it's that. Just get on to the rollercoaster. Just go. Yeah. Like, the point was getting you in there, not making you feel bad because the journey didn't start how it's supposed to. Like, the whole repentance is a turning. It's a turning around. It's it's fighting for the other team. It's doing, it's moving the other direction.

Once you're moving the other direction, it was irrelevant where you were going before. The whole point was to get you moving the other direction. I don't I don't think God's caught up in the process. Just do that. Just do that and things and things go away, and you don't have to sweat that process anymore. No. I I I agree. I agree. In fact, one of the things that I was talking to my wife about this week is is, well, last last week on the show, we talked about the prodigal son, you know. Yeah. And, like, it came up again for me this week. Like, I wanna be the unsung brother, you know. Of course, I mean, he kind of flakes at the end where he starts complaining. But like Yeah. He does. Like but we talked about it a little bit last week, like, you know,

he he's got twenty five years in, twenty years in of being the obedient second quiet son who just did what he was asked and was faithful. And then he flaked, but, like, I'll flake after one day of obedience. I'm like, well, this isn't working out. Like, you know, that guy's got more than me or why are we why are we, you know, why are we doing this? That guy's getting blessings. I'm getting screwed. I could see the whole thing. Right? And, like, I I I just and that's what that's what I've been praying for is, like, I just wanna be the obedient guy. I want I want I want me to decrease and God to increase, and I just wanna shut up and do what I'm told because I know there's love there. And there's I know there's inherent joy there for me. And, like, if I would stop standing in God's way of helping me, like, I could just be the quiet, happy, obedient second son with plenty of joy. Right? Without the big stories or maybe the little I don't I don't care whatever God wants to do with me. That's what I wanna do. But, like, I just wanna be joyful and obedient because I I just I I feel like that's what God has has set out, and that's what he has planned for me. And, like, he has he has more joy in mind than I have capable of thinking no matter what wild crazy scheme I come up with. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I I don't know. That's been my big push lately is is to be without the ending,

the prodigal son's brother. You know what I'm saying? Just the quiet, b character, nobody. And and I think it's I I think the the perspective the right way to think about it is obedience opens God's doors. Your own perseverance opens your doors. And the question is, if I had a choice between going into God's doors or going into my doors, which one would I pick? I would much rather go into the doors that God opened because God opens first of all, he opens doors that he wants me to go through, and that's awesome. Also, he's got keys to much bigger doors. That's right. And bigger and may not be flashier, may not be more,

I don't know, impact more people, but it's God's door, and that's the point. And, my door is not that impressive. I can't even think of a cool door. I'm trying to think of one at the moment, and I keep coming with that game show where they choose the doors. That's what's in my mind. Let's make a deal. Yeah. I'm thinking of let's make a deal. You think that's what god has, the let's make a deal door? That's what I'm thinking of. A $30,000 boat, then that's uptown for me. You know what saying? A boat. Like, God chooses the door. He chooses the path. He chooses the time. That seems way easier than, like, picking my own door, doing my own thing. Like, being obedient to that and letting God drag me around, I can dig on that. Okay. You want a couple of hits of advice here? Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Here we go. Dear Woah.

Well, that one seems kinda rough. Dear, live from the path. I've been widowed for five years. I have a close friend, Louise, who was also close to my late husband. She promised him on his deathbed she would take care of me when he was gone. Well, she has taken it to the extreme. She became very controlling and didn't want me to do anything without her. I went along with it to keep the peace until about a year ago. When I met a wonderful man, I'll call Bill. Bill recently moved into my home. Louis says he has no right to live there with me because my late husband had to had it built, and I have no right to let anyone else stay here. Now she refuses to visit. People have repeated to me some of the awful things she has called Bill. We have had many arguments over the hurtful things she has said in my presence. Bill feels bad about this. He hasn't said or done anything to deserve the treatment Louise is dishing out and has encouraged me to try and work it out. Any advice on how to handle this very stressful situation?

There's a lot of layers to that onion right there. Yeah. Yeah. A of layers. Here's the deal. I I sounded like the lord gifted you halfway through the story when you said she doesn't visit anymore. That sounded pretty solid. Right? And she's causing a bunch of trouble. As long as you and Bill are on the up and up, you know, she went away. That's a win win. Nobody?

I can counsel. Wow. I don't know. I mean, it sounds like she's made attempts to reconcile, doesn't it? Yeah. It does. I feel like she's made attempts to reconcile and, like, if if she's out and Bill's good and well, I mean, wait. Did did she marry Bill, or did he just move into her place? It didn't say either way. Yeah. I mean, I I I'd be against Bill moving in without the the bonds and matrimony. In fact, that's kinda that's kinda loose the guy. Yeah. Yeah. You need to get married. He's, 70, maybe. I just He doesn't even understand what you're saying anymore.

Wow. So roll back a second. So what we said before that was if you try to make amends, if you brought it up, if you said, you know, hey. Why is this bothering you? Hey. Can we talk about this? And she just isn't responding back. You've done everything you can do, now she's gone. Right. Win win. One two. I feel like you guys got to the same conclusion I did. Alright. Secular says. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The chat says older people need hobbies so they don't gossip about each other.

Distract the oldie people. Hey. Look. I found Canasta at the Goodwill. Canasta? Think everything Careful. I think everything worked out. Don't listen to show, Wigger. Don't worry about it. Here we go. A secular says, yeah. Stop trying to appease Louise. She has gone beyond taking care of you and is trying to dictate the way you live your life. Bill means well, but you have already tried to get Louise to accept the situation. Because she refuses, perhaps it's time to move on.

Yes. They need married. Yes. Okay. Here we go. He's not a roommate. No. Jack is a more than a friend. They need to get married. His name is Bill. Respect him. Oh, crap. He's, 70. I was talking I was looking at the chat. Here we go. Dear life from the path. I'm a single mom supporting four children with no help from my ex husband. Oh, I don't like him already. I am fortunate to have a good job that I like. I referred a friend to the company who has since become a regular employee, and he seems to be happy here. I was recently told that I'll be receiving a referral bonus, which was a pleasant surprise. My friend approached me and asked me point blank to split the money with him. I was taken aback. He knows my situation. He has a wife who also works full time and two kids. I think he has a lot of gall to put me on a spot like this. The bonus money will have be a huge help to me, and I don't think it's right that he expects me to give half of it to him. Well, how do I handle this while keeping our work relationship intact?

What? So she gotta she gotta dude a job, referred him. I get that. But is it it's not policy for them to split it. Right? Don't sound like it. It just seems like a weird thing to be bold enough to go say. Hey. Thanks for getting me this job. And by the way, since you got me this job, will you split the money that you get for getting me this job? Right. Because you wouldn't get it without me. Right? I was kind of thinking it was the other way around, but it's not. See, he's the guy that got hired is asking the guy that got him the job. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. That's not cool at all. No. You know what helps? Even if even if the guy the person who's writing says, I'm a billionaire. I have more money than I'll ever ever need. I got this person a job. Now they want the bonus I get for getting them a job. Seems weird to me Yeah. In the first place. The answer is no. You know what helps these situations? If you can clear all emotion out of it. They say, hey. I feel like you should put that with me. No. And then just kinda let it hang. Yeah. And they'll be like, really? Because, I I mean, you wouldn't get that bonus without me. That's true. You also wouldn't have a job if I didn't refer it to you. The answer is no. You wanna go to lunch or something? You could buy. Yeah. Yeah. I'd deflect and say no in a very frank and unemotional manner and make them feel silly for even asking. Yeah. I call McCormick. Obviously, this is all predicated on them not making an agreement prior to, like, hey. There's a referral bonus coming. Hey. Why don't I try and get you hired here, then we can split it? Yeah. Right. I mean, that does happen. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. I've done I've done that before. And I I get it going the other way. Like, if you were the guy that referred him and say, I get this bonus, so you split it with me. Because I started here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Referred you to split it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's what secular says. Ignore your coworker's question. The subject could raise it again, laugh, and tell him you've I'm got sorry. What? Ignore the question? Yeah. How do you propose that go on? Can I have half of this? Man, that sub looks delicious. Yeah. Yeah. Sub. Are you doing something different with your sideburns? Because I love them. Those are too long for normal sideburns. My hand could get lost in there. Do you mind? She says ignore it. Jeez. If he says he wasn't wasn't joking, remind him how hard jobs are to find and tell him he's lucky you didn't ask him for a referral fee. You don't owe him anything. He owes you his Well, I don't know. That sounds kinda lame.

Yeah. I don't know that. I don't need to double down on on, like, how hard it is to find work. Give me money. Yeah. Did you think about that? Yeah. Forget that noise. Okay. One more. 15 year old 11 year old daughter. Here we go. My 11 year old daughter, Gwen, just started middle school. She makes good grades, but she's strong willed. Do kids grow up instantly when they start middle school? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a known. Yep. It's a known fact. She wants to know if she can have a boyfriend. I told her not until she's 15. You said 11? Yes. She's 11. Okay. Sorry. Now she's flirting with girls who ask her out. I told her to stay away from them, not because they are lesbians, but because they are not good girls. They're always in trouble. Gwen says I'm too strict. At a final stop, she will run away. I adopted her at birth. It was an open adoption, and she recently asked me if I'm going to place her for adoption. She was worried that I would. I'm very concerned that she's hanging out with the wrong crowd. Any advice? I'm sorry. She's being courted by wild 11 year old lesbians?

That's what it sounds like. I feel like that's a rough spot. That is a rough spot. Okay. There's here's the deal. There's a jungle weirdness going on with this situation. Yeah. You gotta roll this whole thing back and figure out what happened. Like, there was a tiny dust bowl that happened somewhere, and then somebody just kinda rolled it, and it just started catching a bunch of weird stuff. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Are you gonna replace me up for adoption? Why can't I hang out with 15 year old lesbians? You know what I'm saying? I wanna go out. I wanna do what I want. Here's the deal. I have two girls. They're three and six. They already know they can't date until they're 17. We already talked about it. Yeah. I and I just kinda reaffirm it. They also think that I'm picking their husbands out. Yeah. When I traded so they they wanted to play the Kindle, and they said, left it in the car. I said, I'll you what. I'll go get it, But you gotta let me pick your husband. They said, deal.

That's binding. So the three year old, she's in trouble. In in either case, something something's really happened. There's way too much going on here, and it's way out of left field. These aren't normal conversations. But the first question, is it normal for a middle school kid to all a sudden have an attitude? Absolutely. Yeah. There you go. Done. Yeah. Yeah. But after that, it gets really I feel like I'm gonna tough. I feel like I'm gonna have to say no to the to the dating.

Sure. Whatever threats may come. Yeah. I I don't know. That's hard. Or if you're like, I'm gonna run away. Go ahead. Oh. How you doing? Happened to me once. I yeah. I was a little younger, but I said, you know, my parents gave me a piece of discipline I didn't like, so I'm gonna run away then. Okay.

Did you run? No. Oh, no. Were they pretty I mean, straightforward, not crazy with it? Just like, if that's what you wanna do, we'll we'll probably still be here. Yeah. You know? This will be my house. I feel like we're not going anywhere. So yeah. You will not be welcome back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. But I I sounds like kind of empty threat on the backside. But I know. Yeah. That's the thing. I you know, that my whole thing is honesty. Right? And, like, I don't like to make threats like that, but, like, really, if you say you're gonna leave, we you know, we'll we'll chain you to something. But but the the the real fear on the adoption end, I think, is something not to overlook. Like, if that's a legitimate if I do something wrong, are you gonna put me up for adoption again? This kid sounds yeah. Yeah. See, that's the thing. It's That's tough. That You really have to you have to know you have to know the kid. Right? Because it's either an honest fear, like, that you really need to nurture or the kid's emotionally manipulative. Yes. She knows that's a that's a sore button with you and, like, you have always feared it and now they're just using it. And you know what? There's gonna be a time when they hit, you know or especially early teens, they're gonna say something like that. They're just gonna do it to press your buttons, see where you're at, and they're gonna regret it, but they're not gonna tell you they regret it. You know, all kids go they're 40. That's right. And they're like, I shouldn't have said that. And you know what? They'll carry it around for them for a while. I think everybody does that. Every teenager, you know, as as we all like to stereotype them as being crazy and mouthy, and they don't care. They do care. Sometimes their emotion gets run away from them, and they say stuff they don't mean, and they're a bit prideful to take it back. You know I'm saying? And, like, it could be one of those, but it's so hard to see that as a parent when your kid's giving you the business and you're like, I've raised you. I love you. I don't deserve what you're why is it where is this coming from? And and and being able to step back far enough and still love them enough to go, it's it's a phase. I gotta be able to see this perspective. It's not a reflection on me. It's a reflection on what they're going through. You know? And and it's hard to look at people that way, but it's it's the truth. And, like, I I'm the number one failure at stuff like that, is being able to put other people's stuff in perspective. And Ben says it all the time. He always says, you know, the last thing that someone said to me, I take that brush and I paint their whole life with it. Know, if they were jerk with me one time out of 20, I'm like, that guy's a jerk. You know? Like, he always acts this way. He doesn't always act that way. He did it one time, and I'm taking it away out of context. And, you know and, like, I I think a lot of raising kids is just like that, is is realizing who you've raised them to be, what you've consistently taught them, and where they're varying. And the varying is not their new identity. New normal. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry for pushing you, by way. I don't normally push. Not yet. That's kinda your gig, Wagner. Yeah. Welcome to John Wagner show. Let's finish up the let's finish up the the last the secular fights here. Oh, man. Hold on. I got caught up in a some kind of weird app storm where I can't get out. Here we go.

Secular says, people do not grow up instantly. Secular disagrees. I know individuals who are immature at 50. What? And I'm sure if you think about it, so do you. From what you have told me about your daughter, it's clear that she is far from grown up as far as from growing up as she thinks she is. If you do not want Gwen to date until she is older, that is your prerogative as her parent. The gender of the person isn't the issue. Because you think she's hanging out with the wrong crowd, my advice is to make sure she's so busy she doesn't have time to spend with them. Involve her in activities outside of school, sports, scouting, music, art, and be sure she knows that you are her forever mother and that nothing she could ever do will lessen your love for her. I agree with the last part. Alright. You're listening to Life of the Path. You can catch us during the week at lifeofthepath.org. Sign up for the podcast. Check us out on Facebook. If you like the Facebook, you can get clips and stuff from the show. Hey. By the way, if you do that on Facebook,

you have to ask to be notified of our posts because otherwise Facebook tries to get you to pay for advertising and stuff when we don't got no So you either gotta frequent the page or get notified. I do the get notified. You can always change your mind later. It's a drunk decision. It's Saint Patrick's Day. You can make poor decisions on the alcohol. We'll see you next week. Next, listen to Life in the Path.