Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. Cody from The Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper. This has been Foost. I'm the repenting double minded man. Is

that better? It's It's an active I The repenting double minded man. I have been in my days a double minded man. Isn't is repentance really like a process though? Isn't it kind of like a decision point? I think it's like a daily one. Depends on the issue. Right. Okay. No. I'm not saying it's not recurring. Which in not saying definition makes it a process, doesn't it? I don't know. I think it's a decision point rather than a process. I mean, it'd be great if I could say I have decided whatever, and then from then on it never happens. Usually, I decide and then two days later, I agree. I think you're not in the process of repentance at that point in time. You're just repenting again. Maybe you didn't really repent.

If it's changing teams, you would have repented and then repented back to the other team and then repented again. I got a lot of jerseys. Team. Dodgeball team is not what I thought it was. I'm going back. Here's the deal. Put on your weight belt, boys. Oh, buddy. We got a heavy one this week. Is that a fat joke? These cannons are these cannons are ready. Good. No. That's what I was hoping for. Unfortunately, I really do So anyway, welcome to the show. Hey. If you're on the website at lifefromthepath.org, there's a chat function you can you can join along and be part of the program if you wish. Here's here's what I got

here's what I got on the plate tonight. So last week, were talking. My my youngest or my oldest daughter had at seven had said, do I, dad, I'm not I wonder if I really love God. And we kinda talked through what my answers to that were, and kinda how to move forward from, from that type of question. But that question has kinda been sitting with me this week. And I got to thinking about things that contribute to a discomfort. See, here's I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you this up front. I'm gonna struggle with articulating this question well. In fact, were talking before the show, and even then, I couldn't articulate it well.

But but I think, ultimately, what what I'm what I'm asking is I wanna look at the things that contribute to comparisons in our Christian life and say, when we are we were we believe we are being obedient to God, we desire to follow what he has for our lives. And then we run into things or people or circumstances where we feel like, well, maybe I'm not maybe I'm not maybe I don't believe what I think I believe. I think I believe it, but maybe I don't really believe it. Maybe I'm not,

as obedient to God as I thought I was. Maybe I don't really love God. And the question isn't that I'm not asking the base question of do I love God. The question is is what contributes to that thought process? As an example, let's say, you're a person and and you're you're basically, you don't feel like you're hearing from God. Alright? You pray I mean, you're praying all the time. You're open to his will. You're desiring to do whatever he wants to, And you you have examples of people around you, that say, I've heard I heard from God, or we were praying on this, and we heard from God, and we saw this, and and then we moved forward. And then as a comparison, you think, well, what's wrong with me?

What's wrong with my relationship? What's wrong with my faith? This is not happening to me. Now there it might be misunderstanding what hearing from God is. Might be a misjudging. Who who knows what whether they really heard? My general reaction is to things that'd be like, man, that that probably didn't really happen that way. That's a callous reaction. I hate it. I hate it. Your your danger, though, is when you start comparing start comparing Well matter what. Especially it's here. And and I think that's that's one of the questions, though, is, like, is what's normative? Like, if we look at if we look at scripture, what what is what is normative for God's people? I mean, are the actions in the when we look at the New Testament as is what that's what the Holy Spirit has provided us as a guide for what it looks like to live in the kingdom of God. If my life doesn't look like that, is that a is that is it possible that it's a lack of faith, it's a lack of obedience issue, or are those different people in different circumstances? And how do we know the difference so we can find contentment

in our relationship with Christ without looking at these comparisons around us and feeling like that we are inadequate, but also making sure that by those by by not, by disregarding those comparisons, we are otherwise, like, agreeing to live a life that God didn't call us to live. Because the other part is to say, well, you know, my life doesn't look like that guy's life. He he's super special. No. Maybe he actually he's obedient. Maybe the things in your life are actually causing you trouble because you're not faithful. You don't do what tells you to do. You spit in his face, and you have troubles. And it's like, it's not because that guy is anything special. And so, like, there's a double edged sword there where I think we run the risk. We use comparisons to make us feel more comfortable. This is a significant problem, I think, in the Western church by by the people that are around us that maybe are not in a fully committed relationship with God. But but I wonder if you have people that are in that situation as well who see these circumstances and then now feel like they actually don't have a good relationship with God. There are things that are contributing to this disease in that relationship, whether godly or otherwise. And the question is is, like, how do you know?

How do you know? So so let's let's talk about let's talk about hearing from God for a And I wanna I wanna like, do you have any personal experience with this? And, like, what does that mean? Like, tan let's get tangible here. What does it mean you heard from God? So I I've had one experience where for years I've been tackling this trying to figure out the validity of it. Because it was at a very young age. I was probably maybe 10 or 11 years old.

And it was a really random situation to be involved in. And I look back on it and I laugh. But I I hope I'm not laughing at something that God did. Maybe we could figure it out today. So I was walking in a soccer park across the field from my my parents old house. And for no reason, I was just walking around. I wasn't going to meet anyone. I was just kind of just outside and enjoying nature and loving it. And out of nowhere, I I got this weird inkling that that that I was being told a little bit of about a plan.

And I was being told about something was going on. And I I I want don't wanna run the risk of sounding insane, but I just automatically started thinking, you know, maybe there is something that that God wants me to do. I was I was very new in my faith and I was still kind of learning about God and everything like that. But I felt like I was being called that someday I was going to be a pastor. And that's how I explained it. And I explained it to my father, and I explained it to my pastor at the time that that's how I felt. Out of nowhere, I just started feeling this weird sensation, like my heart started, like, racing and I had goosebumps. It was it was a weird emotional and physical reaction. Yep. It it nothing more than that either. It it was just I felt like I was being called that someday that that was what I was going to do. That was what I was intended to do. Now

here's where I struggle because I don't know the validity of that. I don't know if that was my 10 or 11 year old mind fabricating some kind of physical and biochemical reaction to me hearing something that sounded great. Being part of a new situation, a new church environment, it was exciting. Yeah. Exactly. Your whole family was in transformation. Yeah. I mean, I remember that period. Yeah. Exactly. And and the next week, I told my dad about it or that that day, I told my dad about it. And I told my pastor at the time about it. I was pulled up on the stage at church and, you know, I was told to the congregation, this is Troy and and he feels like he's being called at this point in time to be a pastor someday. Made a big to do out of it. Was really cool. And I kind of forgot it. And it kind of withered away. And I didn't feed it, I didn't work on it, and I didn't pursue it, prey on it or anything like that.

Nowadays, I'm struggling with the validity of that because a, like I said, I was a child and I don't know where I was going with that. It may have been the excitement that I was getting caught up or anything like that. But judging how things have been going as of the last couple years, judging how things have been pushing for me, new things that I'm finding out about myself that at one point in time, was completely introverted that I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't have friends. I kinda just stayed to myself and stayed inside all day. And then my personality and my my who I am started really building into more of an extroverted person. I'm a teacher now. I I do these kind of things and I I I'm in that kind of place. And obviously, I'm I'm still working on my faith and still working on my my relationship with Christ, but it's it's interesting how things have have come to pass that would support that thought.

Personality traits that have come out, experiences that have been involved in, the strengthening of my faith in the last couple of years going from a very shallow faith and and not saying that I'm much further along now, but I am further along. I am strengthening my faith and finding out these strengths and and finding out gifts that I have that that were definitely personality types given to me by God. So I don't really have a way to to explain it more than that, but I've I that's something I've always struggled with. Because I don't want to make this fake, and I don't want it to seem like I'm lying, and I didn't want it to be that. So I rarely tell people about that just because I don't want it to ever be

me fabricating a relationship with God that I had that I thought I had, and me fabricating a a story, and it actually being valid. So that's that's my sadly enough to say right now that I feel like that is my only prominent experience that I've ever had that I can truly remember of my mind believing that I was being talked to by God or influenced by God or an idea put into my head by God.

It's the only story I have. I've been trying to be an active believer for the last couple years and truly immerse myself in the word of God and things like that, but I haven't I haven't had anything that prominent ever since. And I don't really know what signs to look for when it comes to making sure that I am listening to God and if I am hearing from God. It's just not something that's ever been explained to me in a in a thing that I can I can truly point out and say, yes, that happened? Okay. How about you fellas? What what are your experiences? Dave Herrick. David? Alright.

I I've had a lot of experience with this one, and I often feel like I'm in crazy land. But God has constantly reassured us that, no, we're we're we're following. We're being obedient to his will. So I'm going to have to go way back to a lot of years ago when we first started my wife and I first started really seeking God, trying to get an idea of, you know, how can we best be obedient to you? These are some of the questions that were big on our mind. And

initially, some of the conversations that we had with God that involved some kind of a special revelation that would be some kind of revealing of God's will in our lives beyond just the Bible, took a very rudimentary form. And a lot of the examples that I was looking for were things that were inspired based on examples I saw in the Bible. So for example, you've got Gideon trying to determine the will of God by laying out a fleece. And and that's almost a a common phrase nowadays is throw out the fleece to get an idea of what God's will is. And so I'd I'd put out little tests like that just to see, hey, God. Do you want me to to go to this college or that college type of a thing? And,

you know, I I would error check it the same way that Gideon did. The next day, he put out a fleece, he said, god, you just made it wet. So now I want you to make it dry. And if you make it dry, then I I will do this thing. But people use that figuratively, Herrick. Mean, are you talking a literal fleece? It it wasn't a fleece. But there was some other kind of criteria in in life that I basically said, hey, God, I'm really debating about this issue. I don't know what I should be doing. And I came up with some kind of criteria. I mean, similarly, Gideon came up with some kind of criteria. I described that criteria to God and said, here's what I'm looking for as some kind of a sign of this. And I I would always check my own heart to see which direction am I wanting this to go. Uh-huh. And if I can guess about which way this is likely to happen, then I'd always go the opposite direction. And then I'd error check it, and I'd go back and forth.

After being married, I had a much easier time doing this because I could do it, and then I can just sit on the answer and say, honey, I've got an answer. Now it's your turn. And she'll come up with an answer as well, and then we can check answers against each other. And they have been pretty much spot on. It's been a little bit scary that way. One of the early ones I had was when I was 15. I had already I mean, I've grown up in the church. I had already made a decision to be baptized and follow Jesus. To me, that was just a logical step. It was the right thing to do based on what I believed. And I was at a camp, there was a guy who was talking. I was bored, and I was falling asleep during what he was saying. But I was catching some of what he said. And one of the things he put out there for all of us young campers was

you guys should ask god or he was essentially calling us into Christian service, full time Christian service, make a commitment to that with our lives. And I'm sitting back. I'm I'm half asleep, and it's like, okay. Whatever. And I'm like, well, this sounds like something maybe I should actually pray about. So here I am, my half sleepy self. I'm just praying about it. And I'm like, god, if this is something that you want me to do, then just wake me up. And all of a sudden, just boom. And just I don't know if I had a shot of adrenaline or or what was going on, but all I knew was I was asleep. God made me awake, and that was the criteria that I was looking for. Yeah. Crud. Well, kinda. Yeah. But it was also just one of those, okay. This is, I guess, what God is calling me to, so I'm I'm gonna follow him in it. I'm gonna be obedient to that. And then to my surprise later on when I was looking for what college do I I go and enroll in, my debate was kind of state school versus bible college.

And once again, a similar type of criteria. And unexpected to me, God actually called me to a state school, and I was rather surprised by But it was a similar type of criteria that I was looking for. Later on, my wife and I, I've been able to use her to to error check things against and and get an idea of what God's will is from that. Let's see. One of the big things in my life was just learning about what grace is. And at the time,

know, like I said, I grew up in the church, but a lot of it had just been presented to me of this is what Christians do. This is what Christians do. And somehow, had missed the part about how, Jesus actually provides the entirety of salvation. God provides our righteousness for us. And somehow that had been missing, and and it was a a critical component, to what I was needing to learn. And God really talked to me through a dream of all things. Now, I dream a little weirdly. I've taught myself physics during dreaming. Just that's the way that my brain works sometimes is it'll it'll work through complications and and try and solve problems that I'm having throughout the day. So Awesome. It'll do that at night. It I've thank you, God, for that. And this might have just been my brain working out a spiritual issue, but from what I've I've seen, this is more like something that god does did. And

so here's the dream. Okay? It starts off, and I'm dead. And I'm in the afterlife except that I'm I'm actually outside the gates. Now up until this point, I've pretty much lived a a good Christian life. I I would consider myself more or less a poster boy of what it means to be a good Christian part of the youth program and things like that. And I'm dead at the beginning of the stream. And there's this angel who's sitting there at the gate, and he's got a clipboard because I guess he's kind of modern. I don't know. And he's looking at the list, which is, I guess, a copy of the the book of life, and my name's not on the list.

And I'm a little bit frustrated by this. I'm like, okay. There's something's wrong here. Can we go back and check it against the actual book itself and make sure? You know, I'm trying to reason with the guy. And I find myself in the easily the most frustrating bureaucratic situation I've ever been in, and the stakes are incredibly high. And eventually, I get to, you know, can I speak to your manager? Well, what do you know? Just then, Jesus walks by. And and Is there a problem?

He was in full human form. So he wasn't appearing as the lamb or or as as some of his other incarnations. He he was there as a recognizable human. And he came to us, and he just had this big warm smile. He could tell that that there was something going on between myself and the angel and that there was a misunderstanding. And he

I I could tell from him that he loves bringing peace to conflict. And so he he steps in He had this big smile, and and I said, Jesus, can you can you help help out here? See, I thought maybe there was a misunderstanding. Maybe the angel didn't realize who I was and and thought I was someone else. And so I thought, well, maybe Jesus could clarify this thing. And so he he he looks at at me with his big, warm smile, looks over at the angel. Jesus looks back at me, and his his smile dropped flat. And he just said, do I know you? And I woke up from that dream and suddenly realized all those great Christian things that I've done don't account for squat. They mean absolutely nothing

unless he knows you. Anyways, that that was a big awakening point for me. That was God communicating grace to me. And I didn't even at the time know that that was grace, that that's what the concept was, is is what was being communicated. And so I didn't even know how to talk to others about it. And God invited me at that point because I was, in my life, struggling with something. We were in the process of raising funds to do an overseas project. And I knew the book method of how to go about raising funds,

and, God invited me to try out this grace thing. And this is like a conversation that he and I had right after the dream. And it it felt as vivid. I I didn't hear an audible voice or anything, but it felt like God was inviting me into, let's try out this grace thing. Don't you know, I'm asking you to trust your salvation to me based on this principle. I want you to see it firsthand as well. So why don't you try it with fundraising? Stop the book method.

Why don't you just try it just in faith? Try my method. You can use your method. You can use your influence. You can go out and be as persuasive as you think you can. And you're welcome to do that and rely on yourself to have all the funding in place. But the place that we're going that we were headed to was actually a place that's still at war today. And it's

going to be extremely dangerous over there. And if you try it your way, then it's by your power that you get there. On the other hand, if you try it my way, then you'll know while bombs are going off and bullets are flying by and everything else is happening that I'm the god that led you here, and I'm the god that's gonna sustain you. That was the proposal that god offered to me. I can try it my way or I can try it his. And I said, god, I'd like to try it your way.

He god is very persuasive, by the way. So If you're ever trying to convince your spouse of anything, just stop and instead pray. Let God convince your spouse of things. He's far more persuasive than you are. So, again, you could come back to our to kind of the root of the conversation. So tangibly, you said so it's not like a your hearing from God here was just a what what? Like, how would you how would you describe that? I know it definitely was not an audible voice. Yeah. So if you're looking for something like that, no. That was not the case. I was, at the time, still in a state of cold sweat. Just I I had just woken up, and and I'm like, okay. The entirety of what I've poured my life into has been nullified Uh-huh. Right in front of me and just realizing that. And maybe I was just open and God had my attention in a way that he's never had before. I don't know exactly.

But I do know that he made that offering to me and said, try it your way or try it my way. You know, the the other side of that, of what you're saying Yeah. Is somewhere in that process, you guys came to Pathway. And I don't even remember how that happened Mhmm. Because I just don't even remember. And at that point, we had had other people kinda come and do their thing. And other people said, hey. We need to support this missionary, that missionary. You know? And there there were different ideas

out there. And and when you guys came, and I don't even know how to describe that, there was this God saying, them. Support them. Mhmm. And I'm like, I don't even know who they are. I don't know who you are. You're just this guy up there saying you're going to this place. Mhmm. And, I still don't know how. And and

we we did, you you know, and and supported for quite a while. And it's hard to put your your finger on that. I I don't know why others came, and I didn't get that them. You know? I was just like, oh, that was a nice that's a worthy mission, and and I really believe in what they're doing. But not to the point of saying, yeah. Our our church needs to fund that, help fund that. But somewhere in that god story, he had told you trust him, and he told us you're gonna be a piece of that. You know? And it it is really hard. Yeah. No audible voice. No it's not like, oh, I got a twinge. You know? I mean, it's just like there's this confidence

thing that says this isn't it's beyond a gut feeling Mhmm. That can maybe kind of best describe that way. If you have a gut feeling about something, you know, it's it's a But but but in that situation, both of you would otherwise describe it as clear. Right? Yeah. I I absolutely know that. Think what's going on. So so so in in in going back I can't say I was certain. I just knew it was clear. It see right. Right. Okay. So so going back, and and maybe this is I I'm actually I'm in Buva's boat here. Like, I I can't tell you that I've that I've felt like I've had something like that. Right? I've had I mean, I can I can read the bible? I can understand it. I feel like I can I know what it is to be obedient

to it? I and to the the the best extent I a human can, I feel like I I get some of these concepts, and I assume that at some point in my life, God will, you know, like, God will continue to work on those things because, like, right now, there's things I know that I don't know, and I don't know whether I either will? You know? I'm kind of in that boat. I'm kind of in that boat. And so as an example, getting back to kind of the premise of the question, is I say, well, based upon where I'm at,

and I say, I I I've not had an experience like that, what is my reaction? Should I have a reaction? What is a normative it again, this is why I hate this question because I don't want, I'm not asking to say, will do these things or God is pale and always acts in a certain way. But what I'm what I'm trying to trying to get to is is guys sitting in, like, maybe me or boob is corner because I mean, do you feel that level of certainty? Like, do you or not certainty. Do you feel a is it clear to you, for example, potential call as a pastor? Does that seem clear to you? In that situation, no. The certainty is not there. It was it was very it was very nebulous, if that's Okay. The right word I'm looking for at. Okay. And I'm I'm not don't take that the wrong way, Boo. I'm not trying to, like, disqualify one way the other. No. That's fine. I understand. What what I'm trying to trying to trying to work through is, like, common experiences. You know, what's what's what's my right reaction for a guy in my situation hearing things like that? Let me put some other maybe context to to what Okay. What you're saying. I was in fourth grade and felt a very clear call to ministry, which is odd because we weren't like church goers.

I mean, we kinda went to church off and on, a fairly dysfunctional family. But really, it stemmed from my family receiving some pretty poor biblical counsel. Mhmm. And and this thing inside me kept saying, well, someone has to say truth. Okay. I'm a fourth grader. What do I know I mean Yeah. Right. About what, you know, what is not true. You But but and it was like, you will preach truth. You will preach the Bible. You know? I'm like, okay. I don't even really know what that means. But it was just a thing.

And so, you know, I I still grew up and then went through, oh, maybe I'll be a veterinarian. You know? Maybe I'll be whatever. And and but I still in the back of my mind, just know I'm I'm gonna be a I got this thing. I'm supposed to be a pastor. I don't even know what that means. You know? If I could figure out because I'm not a guy who likes attention. I would I am happy in the corner of a room. I like to joke around and have fun and and have friends, but I don't wanna be like that guy. Yeah. You know? So it's against everything naturally in me. So I'm I grow older and I get through high school. I'm like, well, I still know I'm gonna do this. You you know? But but even in in bible college, a year in, I'm I I get to the point where they I decide, no. I'm not. I have this other girlfriend, and and and she will not work

in Christianity, let alone ministry. Uh-huh. I think I choose her. And I I applied for some jobs. You know, I I was like, just totally decided, no. I'm not. But then God kept pulling me. It was like an undeniable. He kept as much as I fought it, you know, it was a it's rather short term, but it was a few months of of trying to get away from it. Like, I couldn't not do it. And and then I came back with a fervor when I finally decided, okay. I give up. Whatever you want. But but so I I did try to fight it, but he wouldn't let me Yep. Fight it, if that makes sense.

So okay. Okay. Hey, Did did I I have some I have a fault for that, Dan. But, Harriet, did you have a reaction to the base question then? The I think the base question should be, if you're listening to something like that I mean, my gut would say, what is that, and how can I get involved in it? I mean, I I I would imagine that someone who's a Christ follower would would think, that sounds awesome. I I wanna hear from god. Yes. You know? And I guess my only advice would be

ask him. I mean, ask him if there's something in your life that's kind of impeding that or if there's if you can start taking steps towards somehow having a back and forth type of relationship with him. But, you know, some of the things to to consider are look at how you're how are you spending your time and your life? Are you are you really chasing wholeheartedly after your faith? I assume that you are, but it's something that you know, why would God get involved in someone who is only half hearted at this point as opposed to getting getting involved in the life of someone who is already pursuing him with all of his life.

One of the things I didn't mention is that I kind of have a personal philosophy of I chase after the elements that cause my faith to grow. So if there's an environment, a place, a situation that I can put myself into that is gonna be a catalyst for my faith to grow, for that desire and that hunger for being in God's presence, I I will intentionally put myself there. Uh-huh. I recommend it. I don't know if that's something that's essential or needed or but a lot of times, you know, things will come up because God has he's working with us in a situation that we really do need to hear from him. So one of the things to look for is, are you spending time in his word already?

Because nothing that he's gonna he's gonna say to you trumps that. And why would he come and give you a special revelation if he if it's already in the bible? Right. I mean, if there's a command in the Bible, he doesn't need to repeat himself. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So so is that could could do we do we believe it's possible then that someone could faithfully follow Christ and never have the type of experience that you're talking about? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. We're we're just called to obedience. Like you said, you get in the word and and we obey. And to

to desire it will not make it any more likely to happen. You know, it's not because one person is more spiritual than another or more, you know, closer to God. It's just sometime God sometimes God has special assignments. Sometimes he has generic, hey. This is what you're all making disciples. Go out and make disciples. Uh-huh. We all have that job. And every once in while, he'll he'll move his chessboard around and say, okay. Now I want you doing this because you you know? And that's just kind of my observation of of how it works. I've largely been in places where it was needed. I mean, I I needed to hear something special from God. Otherwise, I mean, I might die type of things. So You know, and I love that. I like, the the the thought I put this in the context of kind of this was a discussion we were having before the show of, say, our our our Western Western Christianity is that we are not often in an environment, and we intentionally do not put ourselves in an environment in which we actually have to hear from God. Right? Like, we are we are self providers. The things that God promises to provide, we largely provide on our own. Our society permits us to do that, and we allow ourselves to get involved with that way. And so when when God is promising, you know, in

Matthew when he's talking about the, you know, providing food and clothes and things like that, Like, that means that's very difficult for us. Like, that seems like a humongous sacrifice, a significant difference to what we're doing because we provide our own clothes. We provide our own food. And we often we often don't consider the fact I love that haircut. I just love it. And, like, the the thought that that we are intentionally not putting ourselves in an environment where we have to rely on God. And then we have an expectation to hear from God as if he's just gonna kinda come buddy alongside us and do the copilot thing and say, okay. You know, I know you don't need me, but I'm gonna here's a few words of wisdom. Let me send you on your way. And we are not not that the criteria

I suppose demonstrating a reliance on God, that's where God's promises are at. His promises don't meet you at, hey, God. I got this covered. Just give me a few tips and tricks on how to do things a little bit differently to real tidy it up. Right? His his promises, he's faithful when we rely on him. And and if we if we're not relying on him, it's not that he's not faithful there. It's just that you're you're not seeing it because you're you're providing for yourself. What are your thoughts on that? I'm trying to I don't know. I think I'm just trying to to relate this to myself.

It's all about me. Anyway. As we all are fully aware, this entire show revolves around me and my grove. And I appreciate you guys supporting me in You know, I I just I I'm now reevaluating a lot of different situations. Uh-huh. And trying to figure out what was I being speak spoken to here or

where that come from? Because one. I think I think that's that's maybe that's maybe the dangerous place to live because wait. It's But for a different reason. Because I here's here's what I'm getting personally, is that that's a completely unnecessary place to be. God is not unclear. Yeah? You know what I'm saying? Mhmm. Like, where God speaks, I feel like you'll know it. Okay. So I'll continue on. Okay. Hit me. Sorry, sir. So I I mean, I we've we've gone through. We we followed him, and he was absolutely faithful. One of the promises that he that he gave us was that if you try it my way, the money will be there. It was kind of a money issue, but that was the tangible demonstration of it. Uh-huh. The promise was the money would be there, all of it, right when it's needed, not a bit before.

And that's exactly what had happened. We there was a process to this. We we were nervous because we didn't even know how to communicate this with part of the organization that we were working with. Yep. Because, I mean, most of these concepts are just new to me. I I didn't know how to. Yeah. And so there's some tension going on. And for my wife, this was one of the first times that she actually saw tension conflict between Christians about different ideologies. Uh-huh. And so that was kind of an eye opening thing for her. All the money was there. I mean, God made $20,000 appear out of sources that I've never encountered before in my life, and most of them I still have not even been able to go back and say thank you to. Uh-huh.

There I've counted. There are more than six degrees of separation between myself and whatever the source was. I've heard some of the stories about what had happened, and and it was miraculous on their end as well. That was our first time going into The Middle East. Our second time, we were expecting something very similar, and it was different. God was teaching us a different lesson. Each time that we were in the process of preparing for the journey, God was teaching us a lesson that we were going to very much need while we were on the journey.

And our second lesson was a lesson of obedience is the goal. I mean, we had a goal in mind of accomplishing a project. Yeah. And we went through and did all kinds of great things alongside a company that we were working with. And then all of a sudden, the rug was just pulled out from under our feet, and we're kinda left hanging for about a year. And

during that year, I mean, all of us involved in the project were just wondering, okay. God, did we mishear you? Did we misunderstand your intention for this? And everyone involved in it felt that response from God saying, no, you did exactly what I wanted you to do. And we were there trying to build a school, and that project died. I mean, like, literally, it's in the ground dead. A year later, because that project died, we had two schools that were up and operational because that first school died.

He wanted us to be obedient. He wanted to I mean, we did exactly what we were supposed to do. And the process of leading up to it is kind of a story that involved our affiliation with Pathway is that we'd stepped out and and went to the airport, and then the rug was pulled out from under us. And and it's like, god had told us, okay. You came to the airport. Great. Now turn around and go home. You were faithful. You did exactly what I asked you to do. Go home. And we felt absolutely crushed. Wait. Wait. Go home. You went you flew to The Middle East? No. No. We we went to we went to the airport here in Iowa. Okay. Okay. We we had all our bags packed. Uh-huh. I mean, they were with us. We we walked into the airport, and we're fully expecting

for the final piece to come together, and it did not. Uh-huh. And as soon as we came through the doors, we we just both felt God, I guess, speak to our hearts. It wasn't an audible voice again, but it was absolute we were absolutely certain at this point. God said, you've done what I asked you to do. Now go home. Now go back. Turn around and go back. Yeah. And we were crushed. I mean, all of our life was pointing in this direction, and it's like, now what do we do? And my sister was with us, and she took us out to Red Lobster, and we loved. Well, I mean, it was anyways.

Did you have the biscuits? We did. We loved the cheddar bay biscuits. That was great. It is I had those yesterday. I feel close to you right now. It was some good comfort food. Let me tell you. And for about a week, we were just absolutely crushed. We but God was reminding us, I wanted you to be obedient, and that's exactly what you did. And because of that, a partnership developed with easily one of the most supportive churches that we've ever met because of that. And they have been through with us through thick and thin and has

supported us unquestionably. And yeah. But that lesson is one that we needed before we were going out onto the field because as everyone else who was on our team was was watching the rug get pulled out from under us, Becky and I recognized immediately, this is just like what happened to us as we're coming out on the field, that God was preparing that lesson for us almost like an inoculation to it. But he was teaching us this little thing so that it we would recognize it and we could give some measure of comfort to the rest of the team as they're seeing it now for the first time. I bring that up because

in the process of us meeting that team, we had another question. Our plan up until that point was just go learn the language and see what happens after that. We had no extended plan after that. And we had just met up with some guys who were saying, hey. We want to come to a school. Do you guys want to help do you want to work with us? And I recognized it. I I knew it was a needed thing, but, ultimately, we don't wanna do things unless God's involved in it. And we're expecting God to speak or just be as clear and obvious as he had been before. Uh-huh. And so we prayed, and we kinda felt like God was saying, yeah, but we weren't really sure about it. And so we we kept at it. We kept praying. And the second time, we we kinda heard from God. It was it was quieter. It didn't feel as obvious as it was the first time we went. The second time,

god comes back, and and this time his response was we asked, god, can can you speak louder? Can you be clear? Can you be obvious so that we know, we recognize that this is from you? We think this is from you, but we're not sure. Uh-huh. And god's response to that was, why? You heard me the first time. Go work with these guys.

So we had heard him. We just weren't we were I don't know if we were just extra tentative or if it wasn't quite hearing him the way that we were expecting. But in the follow-up discussion, God didn't repeat himself. He instead pointed back to, hey. It's already been said. Listen to it. Yeah. So there was some there was certainly some hesitancy involved in that Yeah. If not unclarity. And there's still often a feeling of, god, did I really hear that right? Yeah. I I mean, I'm still to this day following some extreme patterns of of obedience that

I feel crazy in doing them, and I feel irresponsible in doing them as well. So there's always this this kind of tension, this hesitancy within me as I do that, but it's irrelevant. I I still operate. I I'm still obedient to what he's doing. Right. So god doesn't really need to eliminate that hesitancy because I'm I'm still stepping out. I'm I'm still just I'm being obedient. And maybe that's maybe that's where a lot of that that tension lives is is we have, we want, we have this expectation that God will resolve, things in the way that the world will resolve something. Right? That he will that that he will indulge us in our, you know, did you, you know, did you do that? Did you what do you think? You know? Like like, where I my natural reaction,

like, in in in movement situations, we'll kinda talk through that. We will vent it out a little bit, kinda talk through what you would feel and what's what was going on around you, that kind of stuff. Mhmm. And, like, that's how people do it because people have some sort of we have that buffer within us to be like, no. You're not crazy. I'm not crazy. I think we can come to something on this. And and God doesn't necessarily deal in that way. He's like, remember God and not God. Right. I like here's that here that's that's comfort. That's very comfortable. Because, like, ultimately, what that does is that that perspective puts God where he belong. You know what I'm saying? Like, it it puts it stops

it stops a negotiation. It stops the the expectation that, I don't know, that that I will that you have the ability that God will speak unclearly. Obviously, like, no one would say that. No one would say, oh, I think God's going to be unclear here.

But but I I don't know. I don't know. Buva, how how is this maturing for you? So as I'm going through and I'm listening to some of the stories, it sounds like we're we're looking at this from a standpoint may I may be wrong on this, but we're looking at this from a standpoint from a missional calling. Is what it seems to be like we're really kind of focusing on. You know? This is where I'm going to go. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Things like that. And I don't think that I've gotten I may have. I'm not really wanting to debate about it, but I may have, but I I don't feel like I've really gotten one of those. Yep. But I know that I have gotten the feeling of this is where I need to be right now. Not necessarily a go forth and do this kind of thing. Not necessarily a, hey. This is happening. Be obedient to the situation. It's more along the lines of, hey. You've been placed here for this reason. Make sure you do it. I find myself in in lots of situations where I'm just like, okay. There's no way this isn't a god thing. There's no way that this isn't something god's working on. I'll find myself in a random situation with a stranger that I'm told something, and immediately,

my heart is just weighed on. And I'm like, okay. This isn't coincidence. That was just said in front of me for a reason. I need to act upon that. I'm being called to act upon this right now. My faith is is telling me that there's certain things that I have to do, and that's you know, I'm sharing the gospel. I'm sharing the good news of the lord of of Jesus Christ, and that's something I need to be here to do right now. And I feel like I've gotten plenty of those. And then also a comforting. I was just praying just a while ago about the peace that I've gotten, and I know that that's God not necessarily speaking to me about something, but really weighing on my heart and letting me know he's here. There have been many situations where I've needed that peace, and I've needed that comfort, and it has come,

in a perfectly timed manner. And it's it's beyond me. Five years ago, if you would have looked at me and said, in five years, you will be fully confident in your faith in God, and you will also be fully confident in the fact that your father leaving was the best thing that ever happened to you. And now I can look back on that and say, well, absolutely. That was,

you know, for many reasons that I've talked about on show before that I don't need to repeat. But it it I've gotten those feelings, and I've gotten the calling of of peace and of comfort. I've got the calling of this is where you need to be. You know what to do. Now do it. So how do you so one of the other things that we talked about last week was in the in the question of do I love God? We kinda talked about how emotion plays into that Mhmm. And that your emotions can't necessarily be trusted. So, like, how do you how do you vet that? How do you vet that? It's like if you feel this I mean, let's say you feel a disease or discomfort. Is that God working on you, or I mean, did you eat some, you know, bad bread? Like, what's the is it is it really a tension in your relationship with God? Like, what how do you how how do you balance it? Because, like, the the spirit does promise peace. Right? And so, like, whether you are peaceful or not can be an, like, can be an indicator of the holy spirit working in your life, could be a blindness. Like, like, help me out. Help me out with with someone who's who's having trouble balancing the

or understanding how to how to read them as reality. And and I was talking to a a guy recently who's a a seasoned preacher that can have a tendency to kind of go off on tangents, go off on different directions. And I was talking to myself, you know, it is hard for from a speaker standpoint

to discern if is this adrenaline rush that I am getting right now as I'm feeding off the crowd? Is it the holy spirit who put this thought into my head? It could be either. It could be both. It but you've got to discern. And I what I told him was, guess what? The holy spirit works during the week. Go ahead. Plan diligently what your message is, and then trust your notes on Sunday morning. And and if there's a god thing, he will. He he he can pull you off of those, but it's probably not every third paragraph. Yeah. You you know? That doesn't really answer your question, but but I think that's part of the what's what's the holy spirit? What's what's God speaking? What is what is my emotion? You know? Don't trust your emotion because you I I and I have a problem with this. I can get up and and and feed off the crowd and all of sudden go off in some other direction. That that's where it always becomes a disaster. It all and it always becomes a disaster for me. Because I'm just I'm not that guy. Yeah. I shouldn't be up there speaking at all. I mean, really, honestly. Unless I've allowed God to do the the work. The so same thing, I think, goes in in,

do you feel emotionally connected more to God today than you know, I I don't trust my emotions. I don't I'm not to be trusted. I I read the word. I obey it. If he wants to speak to me, great. If he doesn't, whatever. Have a good friend who's a, a pastor of a very large church, a mega church, and and he went on this journey a few years ago where he wanted to just hear from God. You know? It's one of those could hear all the stories and and why he'd never experienced that. So we went on this forty day fast of of just juice and water. And and every he kept having these you know, just every day he's waiting that this is this is I don't care what it is. I just wanna hear something. He never did. Ever. Yeah. He he at the end of the thing, he was so disappointed. Actually kinda hurt himself physically, through the thing even, because he wasn't properly nutrition

getting some nutrition. And, but he never heard never heard from him. That's okay. And he had that's that's what he had to hear. It's okay. It's okay that God doesn't ever, you know, give me some thing. You know? I still love him. He still loves me. I'm still being obedient. I'm doing what he called me to do. Yep. So so let's let's see if I can if I can try to round this out, okay, from a healthy healthy perspective. And and, Dan, actually, story, I think, really helps because, like, the truth is is that

is that God's word is is Sufficient. Is sufficient. Yeah. Yeah. That's what was looking for. God's word is sufficient. It doesn't mean that God will not do things beyond it, but he won't do things that contradict it. Correct. His word is is sufficient to sustain us.

A healthy perspective approaches that as his final answer. It may or may not be, but it should be sufficient as. And so as we approach and and that actually should really open up the joy of reading scripture. You know what I'm saying? Like, look, this is not a toil. There's I've had this conversation with multiple people, and they're like, you know, you know, they wanted they they talk about their life, and they and they talk about some of stuff they're going through, and, like, well, they said, do I need to do? I said, well, I tell you to read your bible board, but you need to want to. Like, I you know, what You I want you seeking God's word because you think it it matters. Like, this rote bible reading, he doesn't have a chapter number that says read this many and life will be grand. Like, that's not how it works. Well, I'm we're wanting this great experience. If you think about it with your wife, how many conversations have you had with your wife, and how many do you actually remember? Oh, yeah. I could probably remember five I mean, like, pivotal conversations

that, like, changed. I I can remember a lot of conversations. But, I mean, I mean, those conversations, like, change your direction and be like, Isn't it kind of like that with God? You know, we are in communion with him all all day long. You're in conversation of some sort. But it's not like every day, you know, he wakes you up and says, okay, now go east four blocks. Get up, Dan. Bell's here. He might. I mean, I'm not gonna limit him. But but, you know, maybe that's where we get to, like like, hope today should be the day I get that one. You know? I get that conversation. Right. And and and I think we put a standard on, there's something beautiful about Dave's story. Like, it's a beautiful story. I I I it's but the thing is is it doesn't

it doesn't necessarily have to speak about your relationship with God. Right? That's God's relationship with Dave. Mhmm. And and and scripture is still sufficient to me. That that God is has that you've had these experience doesn't mean the scripture is insufficient for Buva. You know, that's not what it means. And I and I think that's that's where we have to be careful. It's and it's not a picture of more. It's it just is. What what was the scripture when is it when the resurrect after the resurrection and Jesus is talking is it was he talking to Thomas? You know, blessed are are you you know, you you have faith because you do see. Blessed are those who believe who didn't see. Who who didn't see. Yeah. Maybe we don't have as much faith. Maybe David has the least faith of all of us. Quite likely. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? I mean, it's it's the one who doesn't need that, that it's sufficient. His word is sufficient. Right. Yeah. And and I I think here's here's where we run the risk. We run the risk of evaluating

God based upon our reaction to what he's what we think is sufficient or not sufficient. Right? That's always it's almost always the thing that I that I find myself trying to protect when these there's biblical things that come up or how people are describing a situation. And, like, I can't validate their their circumstances. I can't validate what's in their own mind, what they believe they heard, didn't hear. Right? But, generally, the thing like, the warning bells go off my mind if it that's not describing God. If that situation doesn't describe God, that's a problem because God isn't like that. He doesn't like no. The the truth is that the definition of perfection move where God moves. Right? Things can change between Old New Testament, and it moves with God. He does what he wants to do. But, like, his his character doesn't doesn't change like that. And so okay. So approaching approach scripture and and understand it's sufficient.

And and when you see God doing things in other people's lives, that doesn't make scripture any less sufficient nor does it make you any less faithful if you otherwise are faithful to what he's calling you to. His word is still his word regardless of how you received it. So I think approaching it that way, that that's a healthy way. On the opposite side of it, you can legitimately be a barrier. Like, you can you can simply not be listening, or you can be trying to use God in a way that is not relevant to his character. Right. And that's and, yeah, that's why you're not getting answers. Yeah. Like, this is not a confirmation of does God exist. Yeah. He's he's not gonna do that. And that's something that, you know, there's a part of me that still struggles with that Yeah. A little bit.

Less nowadays, but It's fleeting, but it pops up. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there's also a part of my mind that wonders if I'm in the matrix. But, you know, I I I don't have a practical application to take this risk and likewise. So it it it's not something that was about me. It wasn't really a confirmation of my faith either. It was it was really just God giving me some guidance at a time that I absolutely needed it Yeah. In order to be obedient to what he was calling me to do. Right. He's he's assisting in your obedience. Mhmm. And that rocks. Yep. Alright. Man, I love this conversation. We'll pick some of it up, try to tail it in right after the break. If you're on KTA, I gotta let you go. Thanks for hanging out. If you got questions for us, choose email [email protected]. Check out our sponsors, Johnson,

excuse me, Westfield Veterinary Clinic here in Johnston for all your pet care needs. Go to westfieldvethospital.com. And Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team. If you're buying or selling a home, Bob is the man, to check out. Go to eisenhowerteam.com. Give Bob a call. At least reach out to both of those folks and say, hey. Thanks for listening to or sponsoring Life in the Path. If you're on the podcast, we'll be right back with you. Have a good week. Read your vote. But only if you really want to.

Otherwise, it's worth it. I mean, it's not worth it. Hey. Quit listening to show. It's over. Alright, man. Okay. So what about to to sum up what Bubba was talking about, was talking about direction. Right? Like, how you hear what you hear. What are your thoughts on God's involvement in your I don't know. Just life circumstances?

Hey, man. Should we have another kid? Which I mean, is that is it inappropriate to fleece it? Inappropriate? Yeah. I I think it would be very appropriate to fleece it. I I think That's big stuff. That's like generational stuff. Right. Yeah.

I mean yeah. Yeah. Getting God involved in something like that? Absolutely. Well, biblical, but, I mean, isn't the biblical precedent that kids are a blessing popping up? Yes. They absolutely are. So That doesn't necessarily mean that that's the blessing that is for you. Okay. Okay. Is there Go ahead, Bubba. Kids are a blessing, but I don't think that I should be having one right now. Did you pray on it? Had. Mike was trying to convince him to have a kid last week. Yeah. He really was. I prayed on it. No. Sorry. I I was talking about just like randomly going and have a kid not adopting.

I mean, I'd fleece that. I so, okay. Maybe I'm not understanding what you guys are talking about when you when you say fleece that. Okay. So so there's never got too kitschy the way I said it. I've never heard that phrase So in my there's a story of a guy, he's in the Old Testament, his name's Gideon. Right. And he felt like God was telling him that he needed to tear down some of the idols in his in his hometown. Mhmm. And he knew what kind of trouble that would cause. And he's like, God, I I'm not certain that I heard this from you. So can you confirm, please? And so his way of confirming was he he threw out a fleece, and he said, god, if this is from you, then make the fleece wet, make the ground dry. So he got up the next morning. That's exactly what happened. And he said, alright. Can I get another confirmation?

Can I I see that you made the fleece wet, the ground dry? Can you reverse that? Can you make the fleece dry, the ground wet? So he gets up the next morning. Sure enough, god did exactly that. He went for a third confirm confirmation, and I forget off the top of my head what that that third thing was. But he essentially looked for some kind of a tangible sign. He had a a conversation with god. He he outlined his criteria, said, god, this is what I'm looking for. And he was being honest and open about, look. God, if you give me if you speak this to me in whatever vocabulary I've just given out as, you know, here's the fleece. If you can communicate to me through this fleece,

I wanna be obedient. I just wanna know what what obedience looks like. And so he was using the fleece as his way of of recognizing obedience. So it was a tangible check mark. Absolutely. And, you know, there there's other examples of God just speaking to people and people looking for ways of determining God's will. One of the Old Testament examples was they would cast lots. That was a way of determining God's will on different matters.

There's another example of Samuel where he thought he woke up thinking that he had heard God's voice. And so and so had a conversation with Eli, who was the priest at the time. And Eli said, well, if it's God's will, then, you know, ask him or if it's God's voice, then ask him what is what the will is I love that story. And what that is. Here I am. I didn't call you in here. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. I there's there's biblical examples of people communicating with God in some, you know, weird, strange ways, and it's not always it's not always an audible voice. When did casting lots fall out of favor? Is that still reliable? I don't know. I've never used the method. That feels like teasing God, doesn't it? I I I know that one of the reasons why I'm a little bit hesitant on on doing things like this is quite often the question that we're asking is the wrong question. Hit me with it. A lot of times people will come up to Jesus, and they'll ask him a question. And Jesus will turn it around, and and he'll get to the real heart of the matter. And he he can see through the veil. He he knows that, yeah, I I get that you're thinking about this thing, but instead he he wants to talk about the thing that's really the heart of the matter. Uh-huh. And so he would he would jump through it. And quite often, we'll we'll come to God asking about such trivial things God either could care less about or he's already spoken to and addressed.

And and he what his plan and his direction for our life is something very different. It might be that he's just wanting you to spend more time in his word, so why would he give you special revelation? I mean so we come to him asking for special revelation, and he's trying to push us more in the direction of, no. We're gonna work on something else now. That'll that can come later. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's like owning a dictionary and then calling up Webster and be like, what does befuddle mean? Mhmm. Help me with befuddle. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about, bubba. So that's that's what fleece means. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So I've got a couple reactions

that I wanna talk through. Because ultimately, like we said before, this show is about my growth. My first thought and my first reaction to doing that is am I honestly listening to God the first time then? And I'm counteracting that also in the same point of I need validity in in having listened to God because I can fabricate things, and I don't wanna fabricate stuff. So I wake up from a dream, and I think that that that God's calling me, you know, to go buy a house. And I'm gonna build this house up, and I'm gonna make sure that I'm housing, you know, all the homeless people in the area.

My first thought as a human would be, well, I don't think I wanna do that at all. I should probably check that. Is that wrong of me to do because am I honestly trusting God? Am I honestly being faithful to God if I feel like I've been called by checking it? Or am I putting too much weight into the checking portion and it doesn't really matter? God will answer us, and God will give us an answer whether it's cut and dry through one of the tangible checking things, fleece in it, whatever you wanna call it, or through scripture revealing things to us. It's not really anywhere in the in the scripture that I shouldn't do that. I'm called to feed feed the homeless and to take care of the widows and the orphans.

So, ultimately, biblically, that's a good idea. That is something I should be doing. So I I I don't know if I'm really asking a question or making a statement because it I'm just kinda battling myself on that because I don't want to fleece it out of not having faith, but I also don't wanna just fabricate things, and then just say, well, I'm on my way to Zimbabwe tomorrow. I had a dream about me hanging out with a giraffe, and so therefore, I need to go to a giraffe, and that's in Africa. The lord is in Zimbabwe. The lord's in Africa, which is true.

So that's that's my first thought. Dan, do you have do you have a you wanna address that? Well, I'll say before moving here, we we did some fleecing. You know? We we god would have done fine with us in Atlantic up to this day. We'd be fine. He'd be fine with us coming here. I don't know if he really cared, but we spent a year and a half really searching God's heart. And and in the beginning,

it's I did it poorly in the beginning. Mhmm. Like I said, okay, God. If the sun comes up in the yeast, you know Wow. That's It was it wasn't quite that obvious. Weather doesn't happen in yeast, man. I mean, it was it was, like, pretty I I don't even remember this, so it was so embarrassing. And I remember it it happened. And I was like, okay. Shirt would smell bad after I wear it. If my dog barks at me when I walk in the house, I'll know it's a sign. You know? Lord, if I need to wash my socks next week, I'm a know. Because we were we were praying fervently and earnestly about this. You know? Like say, literally every day, every year and a half. And I finally came, okay, here's the deal. Because I'll do it. I mean, I'll do it. We'll do this, you know, if you want it. But I don't want to do it wastefully. You know, I don't want to do it just because it's a whim, you know? And so we said, we did three things. And,

you know, one was there was some relationship issue. Like, okay. If if the leadership of the church, I tell them about it and they full heartedly are behind us and say, this is a great idea. God is behind us. Number two, my wife Cheryl is 100% behind it because she was not 100% behind And number three, I actually put a financial figure. It doesn't matter the the figure. I I said I said $20,000. You know? That's not that my salary, but I just said this $20,000 thing. And I said, those are my three things. It was kinda funny you said 20,000. Thought, oh, it must be a bad number. Not really. I'm just saying that. Number of completion. But but but then each each of those things were were, like, like, like, happening. And then the big the big one was the 20,000 thing.

And it came back in a way that was different than I expected, but it was a $20,000. It was a Mhmm. On the nose, you know. It was like Worked. Where did that you know, where does that come from? You know, I mean and that was like, okay, I can no longer say, okay, one more. Let's try a 100,000. Right. It was like, okay. Obviously, you keep saying yes. Let's try a 100,000. Right. Big God. Don't know what he's I think that's where my caution is. Yeah. Is, you know, I can fully understand. You know, asking God, I'll earnestly, hey. I'm not at a place where I think this is 100% you. I'm not at a place where I feel like this is all you're doing.

I need some some guidance on this. But at the same point in time, I don't wanna catch myself seventh time going in, okay. So here's the deal, god. And then doing another fleecing. And then okay. So so that good job on that one. Obviously, that came true, but I let's let's check one more time. When is it enough? And I don't think that I'm I'm really asking for a number, obviously. Yeah. I'm just I'm cautionary because of the fact that I don't want it to be my disobedience. I don't want it to ever turn into me being disobedient to the the the word God and God saying, hey. This needs to happen

by continually giddying it giddying it and fleecing it, whatever you wanna call it verb wise. That's where I'm at. So and I I I appreciate that. And I I don't I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, and I'm not saying that that is a lack of faith. I'm just that's where I was juggling. That's where I was coming from, because I can see it from both standpoints. Maybe I'm being super legalistic with the the am I, you know, being obedient or not with that, but that's where I'm at.

The second thing that that that I'm I'm kinda wrestling with right now, and this is one of my favorite part of the show is because it's honest kingdom living talk. I feel like I'm being convicted to start putting more fleecing out there because of the fact that I feel like a lot of the decisions that I make, I don't ask God on. I don't ask for guidance, and don't allow myself to be obedient because I'm not being obedient to God when I'm making the decision. I'm being obedient to myself.

And that's kind of pointless. Fortunately, you're in your early twenties, and none of the decisions now will affect the rest of your life. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. All of them They will. Never mind. That turned around on me. That just went awkward. Yeah. Exactly. No. And, I mean, at all points of time in your life, you're gonna have decision points. I'm I can't really speak to anything over 22 yet. But in twenty years, I'm thinking that I'll be able to say, I didn't just make decisions when I was 22. I just yeah. I'm I'm I I think that that's something that I need to work on is honestly seeking out answers and honestly seeking God's guidance on things. And maybe my lack of hearing things is because I'm not asking.

Or because you're not listening. Or because I'm not listening. Mhmm. How do you how do you listen? That that's the hard thing. It's it's a what? An attitude? I can't even say what it is. Never showed up. I would just that would be a problem. I the last the last prayer room that we did, I told myself every hour I was in there, I was not going to pray. Yeah. I wanted to just listen. And that was it. It lasted about four minutes. And I had maybe six hours planned. Okay, God. You had your time. Exactly. Hey, man. You got you had four minutes. You knew exactly what I was gonna do patience wise, this is all you got. I heard nothing. Now let's talk about my stuff. So I don't know. But yeah. No. Absolutely. That's that's a kingdom living question I have also. You know, what does it mean to listen? Is there behaviors that we can do? Is this just something that I'm trying to make legalistic?

And it's not? I and that's something that I've been But you're trying to make logical. Yeah. Exactly. I I is there something that I should be doing that I'm not? That's the easiest way to put it because that's the easiest way to act upon. I don't know. So I I I put that question just like Dan did out to you guys. What does it mean to to honestly be listening to hear the voice of God and to hear God influencing you to to make decisions to make, you know, start going out in your life. K. Maybe maybe this question will help. Can you wrongly turn God into a vending machines even vending machine even if you're trying to do it for the right reasons? No. God will not. He will not become your vending machine. Can you let me rephrase here. Can you wrongly attempt

to turn God into a vending machine even for the right reasons? Yes. Because a a two for biblical calling? Because for example, what what the question was is what else what else should I be doing? And I I I guess I'm I'm wondering if that's even the right question. That's a valid point. You know what I'm saying? Like like like, we have this thought that I do something, God reacts. I do something, God reacts. Or God waits to to do something until I posture myself in a certain way. Yeah. What was Moses doing? And all of a sudden, the burning bush. Oh, you know, he wasn't like, in sheep mode. Know? What what was Isaiah doing? I don't know. And all of a sudden, he's called, you know, and then he's like, oh, me of unclean lips. And the same example is is the same one. It's not like he was sitting there waiting to hear from God. Right? It just he responded when God called. What was Mary doing when an angel appeared? You know, was she like, okay, God. What's your plan for the day? Or or was she just I mean, all of those

I mean, Mary would was otherwise described as a life of faithfulness. Yeah. So, I mean, I I suppose there's root in that, but I I I don't I don't know. And it's again, it like, the the right reaction is to try to is to be obedient and faithful to God because he calls you to be that. Right? Right. But but maybe the thought that got that there's a threshold in which then God jumps in, like, maybe that's just the wrong thought. It's just not the right thought to think that there's a bar in which he goes as soon as he's faithful enough, then I will jump in. No. I'm faithful. And and maybe to to Dave's story, like, he's he's providing when what you need. Like, you're you're we're coming to him in need, and he is filling a need as opposed to saying, Lord, see the things that I took care of so that I don't need. Now jump in. You know? But the point of that is that it's not intentional. Right? We're not intentionally coming to God and saying, I've taken see, Lord, check out all these things I've done. That's not what's in your mind. But I wonder if ultimately sometimes that ends up being our posture, Is we're saying, look. Look. I I've I've I've been without I've been without sin for a week. Now will you speak to me? You know, like like like and and granted, sin is a is a barrier. I am separating myself, from the work of his kingdom, and, that that does happen. And I feel that. Like, I can I can feel when that tension is in my life, but, like, that is not necessarily precluding God from doing what he's going to do? He's sovereign over everything, including my sin.

So Yeah. I I Maybe the questions are sometimes wrong unintentionally, wrong. Yeah. I mean, now that looking at that from that standpoint, it does seem like I'm trying to pose myself to hear from God. And not meaning to do that in any way, but I I can see where that's coming from. That makes sense. Ultimately, I I think I think where I'm coming from and and, you know, I'm still relatively new in faith, I know I'm always gonna be learning, but I do have a lot of these questions myself, and I'm that's why I sometimes bring them here. But I just I wanna make sure that that it's not something that I'm doing incorrectly.

And I it doesn't seem like there is. And and I don't know. I just wanna make sure that that I'm I keep saying I'm. I need to shut up and just say God's gonna it. If he wants to. That's If he wants to. Which Yeah. I've said I'm and me probably 20 times in the last three minutes. I'm just gonna say God and just okay. Yeah. Either he's either he's God or he doesn't. And and and maybe, like, some of these expectations we have and we've created a we've created even a Christian subculture that has some

that has that has put a burden on Christians to interact with God in a way that he didn't propose necessarily. That he he didn't necessarily say, hey. Hey. I will treat everybody this way. I will I will speak into your life outside of word that I've already provided for everyone to be obedient to. And and maybe we've created a normalcy that that can cause people to feel inadequate, and that's not that's not God.

That's not God that's doing that. That's that's our our, our version of what it looks like to live in his kingdom that may or not be consistent with what his version of what it is to live to live in his kingdom. You know? And so, like, if there's doubt in your mind, know, do I love God? And God says, if you love me, you know, you're obeying my commandments. And, and that, like, that that thought that well, I am, and I'm seeking that with all my heart and, and my action, and the thought that that's not sufficient, that's not a God that's not a God statement.

Right? That's a that's a Christian subculture statement. That's feeling of inadequacy that God is not born within me, but, like, as otherwise, showing up via a Christian standard that says God will will react to everybody the same way. He will call everybody. He will speak into their lives. He will have a direct answer from you in these things when otherwise he's provided it. Like, scripture has done that. It is sufficient. And if I don't have joy in that, I'm I'm probably not the I don't know. I I just don't see God stepping in.

Yeah. The the foundation of our faith is not some kind of mysticism and and this otherworldly calling. The foundation of our faith is is outlined in the Bible. It's it's in the history and the and the person of Jesus and and what he did. And, yeah, certainly, we've already talked about how the bible's sufficient for this. So, you know, this kind of special revelation, it's not something that legitimizes your faith. You you pretty much are either trusting in God or you're not. And if if you are trusting in in Jesus for your salvation, then then that's it. That done deal. I mean, you're you're in his kingdom. It's so it this isn't something that's gonna legitimize your your faith. And I remember I was gonna say two other things, and and maybe it'll come back to me. But oh, I remember now. Okay. I got it. Yeah. It's it's not always comfortable.

In fact, quite often, it's very challenging. Mhmm. Often, these messages are are ones that really just tear apart some of those foundations that that we've put in our lives, that things that we were trusting in that we didn't even realize we were trusting in. And God's saying, okay. It it's time to no longer trust in that thing. Well, all of my life up until that point has been trusting in that thing. Uh-huh. So, like, when he comes to me and he says, okay. Time to give away all your money. It's like, woah. Wait. What? Like, zero out my bank account? Yeah. Exactly. Give away all your money. It's like, okay. And I I was very tentative when I I turned to my wife, and I said, honey, I I think that God's telling me something. And she's like, okay. I said, I think he wants me to give away all the money. She's like, awesome. Cool. I mean, she had such a positive reaction to that. It was it was otherworldly is, I guess, my way of all your money, Dave Fair? We have twice.

Yeah. Okay. And funny story about that. It it was five years apart that that we did that. The first time we did it, all we had was $1,500 in in our account. Yeah. And actually, I had no job either. I had no source of income whatsoever. And and we were really struggling with that. And I was really praying about, hey. Look. I you know, money's dwindling away. God. What do I do? And and he said, give it all away. And I'm like, what? Did did you did you said, what do I do? It's

it's depreciating, and this is not solving that problem. And this was kind of me. I mean, god knew that that was that was what the tension was. And it's funny because over the course of the next week, we had my wife and I had just had such a peace and a joy as we were just blessing others. And just we're like, hey. We can give money to these guys, and we can give money to this thing and that. And, you know, God provided for us. And so five years later, there was a a guy who was going through a sermon, and and he he was getting to the words of Jesus about seeing your brother in need. And later on in the sermon, he gave us specific websites of

of needs that we could get involved in, almost Kickstarter type of Yeah. Of accounts, except they had to do with, like, feeding the poor and and things like that. And and we looked at it, and we're we just looked at each other like, we can do this. We we could pick one of these projects and fund it. And it was, like, $15,000. And so we gave away another chunk of change there. And what's cool is there is five five years apart from that, and the dollar amount went up by 10 tenfold. Uh-huh. And what I'm hoping that I can do is that in just a couple of years, I'll be able to give away yet another tenfold Uh-huh. Increment of that. I'd like to be in your neighborhood when that happens. Yeah. So I I I would love to

so, anyways, that that's one of the one of those things. So, yeah, it was obviously very uncomfortable and terrifying. And it's like, okay. This doesn't really answer the question of what we do after we give away all our money. But it was just God told us to do it, and so we did. And so we we had to live with kind of that that tension of, okay. We don't know exactly what's gonna happen next now that we've now that he's just pulled the rug out from under us. But we're gonna be obedient. God, we're just gonna trust you. And it's such a blessing. I mean, it's such a state of joy. And we're we're not really dependent on money the way that and we we've never worried about money. He he has always provided for us exactly as much as we need forever and ever and and ever. Yeah. And so I, at this point, have no reason to ever doubt that. You're listening to to Life in the Path, and I told you it's gonna be a heavy one. We're, like, hour twenty in. Okay. Here's here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna cut this conversation here. K. We're gonna digest for a while. K. And we'll see we'll see if there's any thoughts over this next week.

We'll come back to this. I don't think my brain has a finite amount of space, but I think I'm done thinking for the week. No. No. No. You I'll give you, like, I don't know, half an hour, and then I want you back on the horse. Alright. Try. Okay. Very good. Alright. We got time for one we got one dear life in the path, and then and then we're gonna call it a night. Here you go. Dear life in the path. Lately, I've been having problems with my live in boyfriend, Ethan. We fight about everything, and he refuses to admit when he's wrong. Ethan has been sleeping on the couch for a week waiting for me to take the first step and reconcile. He isn't working, and I am, and that is probably what is him so mad. I pay all the bills, and he thinks I feel superior because I'm bringing in money, and he's not. We argue day and night, swear and scream at each other, and he does not appreciate everything I'm doing so we can survive. I have two daughters. He has one, and I'm supporting all of us. Do you think it's a good idea for us to have a baby? Ethan is desperate for a child with me even though we can't get along or communicate.

Why? I didn't see that coming. No. No. No. I'm not even gonna expound on that. No. Put your house in order. I I want you to logically look at this and think about the fact that you have three children that you're supporting on your own. Excuse me. Four children that you're supporting on your own. And you're thinking, well, my house is in shambles with these four kids. I'm sure a fifth would help.

That'll calm things down. I am 22 years old and have awful amounts of discernment. No. No. No. In fact, you should probably not be making any more major decisions in your life. Yeah. You've you've already demonstrated that inadequacy. So find someone that you really trust who makes good decisions, and let them make the decisions for you from now on. Yeah. Yeah. Until Like us. Yeah. It's okay to hand it over the reins. I agree. Yeah. I agree. Oh, man. Oh, okay. I think yeah. We're straight on this as a terrible idea. Here here's my my official advice. I would recommend that she finds herself a good bible because there's a good road map in there to some good family dynamic and and how to make some good decisions, how to be a good mom, how to be a good wife, how to be a good

follower of Christ, become a follower of Christ, and how to be forgiven of any past mistake. And you get right with Jesus, and then we'll start working on the other stuff. I think that should kinda be our advice to everything. Well, kinda is. Get get involved. That's a find out loud. Be a great advice bit if we're just like, you know, go ahead and grab a bible. Find Jesus. Find the parts that have to do with exact situation you're dealing with. Go ahead and read that. Digest it. And then pray. Alright. You've been listening to? Sweet. We toyed I toyed with that because we were we were talking about we don't have a mission statement or, like, a like, stuff on our on our church website about, like, a statement of belief. And I thought about just putting a link that says statement of belief and then a link to, like, esvbible.org. There you go. Love it. I love it. I don't wanna hassle over anything else. Just go. Alright.

Secular says, not only do I think it's not a good idea, but I think it's a terrible idea. Babies are expensive and you're already carrying a heavy load. Yeah. That's the reason. How about babies are human beings? That's pricey. It's a liability. We're asking from a financial standpoint, obviously. It's like she asked if it's okay if we go in on a Camry. Should we go to a nicer restaurant for dinner tonight, or should we just do pizza? Oh, wow. It's not a financial question. Thank you, secular. I suspect that Ethan thinks a baby will fix what's wrong in your relationship. There's a smart man. But he's wrong. Don't do it. It would be a huge mistake. Alright, man. We got off

got off light on that one. We really did. We settled that one with The way that she was asking that, I was thinking I'm like, oh, this might be some good discussion. Yeah. Then should I have a baby with the guy that I've been talking about negatively for the past two minutes? No. No. No. Get your bible. Alright. You've listening to Life Path. We will see you next week. Oh, hey. Shoot. Oh, got it. I forgot. July 15. Mark your calendars. We got a big show coming up. As we are, is it Zeke's sponsored by Life in From the Path, we're bringing bands into town, man. Yeah, buddy. They've given us access to a venue, and we're putting folk in it. And our first show is gonna be July 15. As we are, Echo and As Clouds break, it's three folks on the dock. It's gonna be a great show. That's July 15. Set your calendar. I'll talk more about it next week and put some stuff on the website. Thanks for listening to Life in the Path. It's kind of a downer. I got the wrong I got the wrong tunes.

Where's my stuff? There it is. Okay. Thanks for listening live today.