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Work for the Holy Ghost. Work for the the I am working May. You'll hear me. Yes. I am. I am a special agent of Never do. I'm gonna wet your I saw this article. I'm not even gonna show it to you, but I saw this article about a guy who says top 10 top oh, no. Seven. Top seven ways to have a great marriage.

And I looked at them, and they were stupid. They were really not good. Can can you give us an example of one of What was it? I'm trying to think of what one of them was. Actually, it's a little bit of what we we're so before the show, were kinda talking about how your faith interacts with reality and how sometimes listening to

listening to sermons is difficult because sometimes the the real evil people are like like caricature evil. Like, I mean, like Yeah. Guys with strange mustaches. Yeah. Yeah. Twisting twisting mustaches. Mhmm. Things like this. And and the good guys are, like, outraged. Like, they can't even be comprehended how they act. Like, they're holier than than Jesus.

And so it's so the but the advice was oh, I I I don't even remember one of them. Like but the advice was kinda like that. They were caricature like, love her unconditionally. Like, yeah. Next.

Like, that's not advice. This isn't helpful. Yeah. So okay. Because I thought, like, how what do I do? I just go home and I I squeeze my wife and I say, I love you unconditionally. Are you impressed with me? Do you know do you love me yet? This is something I really appreciate about Jesus. All of his illustrations are very much grounded in reality. I mean, he's talking about farmers. He's talking about people going through real life struggles. Whenever he wants to tell people about what heaven's like, he goes through real life deals. So I I just appreciate that. Right. Right. No. Jesus never says, hey. The kingdom of heaven is like rainbow bright. Right. Yeah. Or the third season of the Power Rangers. You know, before it took a downhill slash.

Alright. You're listening to Life From The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us. Go to lifefromthepath.org. If the show stinks and you wanna let us know about it, that's just a joke because I don't give you a way to contact me because I think that's the reaction you're gonna have from the show. If by chance you do really dig on it, let us know. Info at lifefromthepath.org. A big thanks. Hey, last week, if you didn't catch the show, Bob Eisenhower and and John Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team were on. That was two weeks ago. Really? Yeah. Man. Yeah. We'll talk about we'll talk about last week's show after we introduced the Eisenhower. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Good point. So anyway,

those guys are awesome. They do a great job doing what they do. And so if you go to eisenhower team dot com for all your real estate needs, you need to buy a home, you need to sell a home. Maybe you don't know whether you wanna buy or sell a home, but you thought, you just wanna see what's going on out there, what's on the market, or how much you might be able to get for your house. Those are the guys to go to, man. They do awesome work. They've, they did Mike's house. They've helped me look. I just, right now, I they've they've got no benefit from dealing with me. Like, I've looked at three or four houses, you know, bottom of the barrel type things where I think I can get it for cheap. It doesn't pan out because I I underbid or I really don't have the money to be moving. And so they just basically do a lot of work for Yeah. So I don't know why they continue to do do business with me. That's because they're good realtors. That's what see. That's true. They're they are they're they're they actually talked about that once and they said, look, how we gonna how we gonna help you find the right one if we don't actually walk you through the ones and see if which one's right. So Mhmm. They're just awesome to deal with. So go to isleauerteam.com and and hook up with them. Tell them that Life From The Path sent you, because I people say that on the radio. So Yeah. We wanna be legit. You know, From The Path thing. Here's the deal. It's like I find sometimes I just find myself sitting in my living room and nothing else is going on. I look around and I'm like, you know what? I hate this place. I just wanna I wanna move. Right? And then this is the kind of action where Bob and John can help you. Right? Like, after talking about it with them and kinda running through you'll you'll you'll figure out whether it's just a passing fancy for you or whether it's a legitimate time for you to get out and get moving and whether it's a good investment for you, whether it's it makes financial sense or whether you're just on some kind of whim because the guy next to you got a sweet lawn mower and you're like, I'll never be able to afford lawn mower as good as that one and he'll always know it and then this I'll be the worst lawn mower in the neighborhood and I will be I was stigmatized the rest of my days. Right? Right. It's not legit reason to move, man. And they'll help you run through those things and see whether it's a good idea or not. And so, like I said, give Bob or John a call with the Eisenhower team. I've legitimately used them and they they were just they were great to work work with. I basically told them what I wanted. They found it.

They they told me I go look at it. I said, I want it. What do I do? And they said, sign this. We'll do the rest. And they did. And it was it was awesome. It was great. So I recommend them fully. Alright. So so I I suppose on the topic of last week's show, one of the things that we were talking about, we got to talking about basically billboard evangelism. Speaking what ultimately I we would deem as as lies even if it's biblical truth, if it doesn't sit within the context of the God that said it, the heart that it was said with, and basically what God is actually pointing to,

then I then it's just not true. And so I as we got to talk about that, what we were discussing after the show. A lot of times, you know, we we the conversation really continues even after we we stopped recording the program. And I think what we came to was is that we're not sure that we handle that conversation

with the same grace that we would ask the people that are being targeted by the billboards to receive from the billboard purveyor. Right? So like if we expect we have high expectations on how people that love Jesus are treating other people so that Jesus may be seen. And although I don't think we would disagree you can stop me fellas if I'm not representing this correctly. I don't think we would disagree with the way that we like, generally speaking, the, the output of the conversation and what we're what we're targeting and, frankly, what we thought was dangerous about approaching it that way. I think what we could agree though is we're not sure that we act didn't cross over into a spot where we weren't actually being a healthy part of a conversation. A, because those people are not here to talk, and and and b,

because, I think we crossed from pointing out something that we think is harmful to, the body of Christ and people's understanding of Jesus to something that was a little bit less on track to of building up and a little bit more on track of of tearing down. And so I I think we just I we wanna say that out loud. We wanna say that out loud because we said that after we were done, we thought, know, something just didn't feel right about some of the places that we went. I I don't know that it was like, might not even have noticed. Yeah. But I think to us, we did. And I think we wanna be honest with the conversations that we're having. That's part of the nature of the program is that we're gonna talk about stuff like that.

We're we're we're not we're not really like we're not professional dudes. Right? We're just gonna get on the radio and we're trying to talk about stuff that matters to us in our day to day lives, the things that we see impacting the kingdom of Christ. And, you know, we're not they're not professional mouths, I guess, is what I wanna say. We're not always great at keeping our conversations where they're supposed to be, and this is this is part of the process for us, and we wanted to be honest about that. So I think we wanna apologize if there were there were places that we overstepped. We certainly felt that like there were. And if you guys can learn from that, we were trying to learn from that too. I think it's still a healthy conversation. I think it's something if you didn't watch the show that I would recommend going back and listening to because I think it has the impact of there's there's just some frustration in in the room here with the thought process that we, under the guise of telling truth, we're we're going through the process of basically shielding what God is actually like. Right? We wanna make sure we will we're basically fighting for righteousness and not fighting for Jesus.

And to the to the extent that we can lead someone to righteousness and not to Jesus, that's a total fail. I think we can all agree with that. Right? That's a fail. They don't know Jesus, but they know righteousness or some forced vision of righteous ness because we passed a law or because we shamed them or because we used the billboard to convince them that what they thought was incorrect, is indeed so. Like, I I think we're we're finding problems with that. And what we're finding is that as our culture continues to kinda slide away from a foundation that is at least a facade of Christianity,

what we see is is people putting stakes in the ground and I think wanting to to hold on to that, and we do it in ways that otherwise don't introduce people to Christ. And so, I think we need to know the difference because we need to to make sure that we're not fighting for the wrong thing. We're not fighting for a facade. We're not fighting for an image. We're not fighting for someone who dresses themselves up. We're we're fighting to show them who Jesus is so that when Jesus gets the invite to the to the end of times party and is the only legit guy walking in that we can just we can just kinda trail in behind him and follow him, and he says, yeah, they're there with me. And, like, I think that's what we can do. And then righteousness, to be honest with you, if you know and follow Christ, it it really does work itself out. This And is one of those faith things where I think we have trouble with that because we're like, yeah. But how could it be? Don't I have to do x y and z? Don't I have to do, you know, all these things? And the truth is is if you follow Jesus and do what Jesus does, you you that's righteousness. Right? It will flow from the identity of who Jesus is and what he's done that you may be righteous. And I think we try to kinda brush that up a little bit, and that's where we run into problems. And even trying to lead someone to Christ to the extent that you have to brush themselves up, I think misunderstands. We the conversation we're having before the show was basically every good Christian started out wrong. Yeah. Like that like that's if you're not starting there, you misunderstand your position in the world and and who Christ was. And so so anyway, think there's still a healthy conversation there. I think it is it's still a pretty firm warning that we've we've gotta be careful in how we're addressing stuff like that. I think you should stop buying billboards. Flat out across the board. Yeah. It's not doing it's not doing anything.

You need to knock that off. And and we don't wanna do the hard work of relationships, and I I I get that that's difficult, but I think we're gonna have to do You if it's if it's from the bible, if it's true from God, but it is not in the context of who God is and why he said it and what he's pointing you to, then it's a lie. And so your billboard doesn't provide any of those things that I think it is not helpful. But to that extent, I guess we just wanted to it's it's a good conversation, but we have to be just as careful as we talk about the things that we we feel like are going the wrong direction. So we wanna kick off the show with that. And if that if you love that and you that's vindicated you, congratulations. Consider consider us humbled, and and we wanna be. Yeah. So there it's easy. You don't even get a vindication because we love it. Yeah. We love the thought that we were that we recognize we're wrong, and we need to change our ways. Alright. Alright. So no no billboards. What do you think about church signs? As

as, like, funny funny 's? Well, you know. How they're used in various ways. Yeah. I wouldn't have one. Okay. Like, if it were my call, I I wouldn't hey. Here's I can't think about Does that include, like, the hours of operation or anything, or you're just like the kitschy slogans? Yeah. Any frankly, any slogans and Like see you on Sunday dash god. Yeah. That's not for you? No. No. I mean, I don't I'm old, not Lord overall. I can't see you all the time. Come hang out of my place, Jesus. So

I no. No. And I like I'm not even hesitant. There's this guy as a matter of fact, when we drive to church on Sunday morning, there's a there's a Lutheran church down the road. And like, it was always saying like this week's sermon, you know, James two. And I thought, who's that bringing in? Like, the only guy that knows that and is excited about it, I I'm confident go somewhere else. You know what saying? James two, heck yeah. Hey, come with this one preach.

Hey, with the Lutheran church. James two's on. You know I love James too. And so like I thought. I've been hitting Job sermons all around town. And and you know, and there's there's I know why we do it but there's there's always something that's that falls short trying to put in even a description of what you're gonna talk about. Mhmm. And and and I don't know. I I I struggle with this, and there's legitimate reasons to struggle with this. But like like Sunday morning is for people is for people that love Jesus and wanna be there. Like it really is it's an awkward place if you don't love Jesus to show up. It just is. And to and to be honest, the situation in which you're showing up and you don't love Jesus, but you're wandering into the church, my guess is it doesn't matter what's on the sign. Yeah. Like your circuit and it's not that there aren't people somewhere especially there's gotta be Internet stories about a guy who sees the sign and rumbles in and baptizes himself and Yay. It's like, if I if only everyone preached James too. My name is James. I mean, I I get that those stories exist. I'm just not sure it's normative. And so like,

yeah, I'm not sure I would go to the effort to changing the sign. Yeah. I mean, what if someone just wrote this Sunday and every Sunday, Jesus. Jesus. And then that's the that's that's it. The story I heard when I was a kid, like, of a preacher that was like, every Sunday he kept he kept preaching the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. He did it for like, I don't know, six months straight. The church end up firing him because they're like, you gotta preach something different. He's like, there's nothing else to preach. I was like I covered the whole thing. I love that story. Yeah. I like his style. We don't seem to have this yet. We're just gonna keep up Actually, there is there is something to be say to to be said about like when you post, you know you know, the verses or the or the chapter you're gonna be in or whatever, you are basically trying to bring in other people that already know Jesus. Right? Mhmm. Or or like you're basically trying to trade the space in which God's people meet. Like, do it here, do it there. You know, we're trying to get the guys from the church down the road that had a less classy billboard. Right? Yeah. The term for that is stealing sheep. Yeah. We're sheep stealing. Like, I mean, I I think Ben's right. I've never driven past the church and thought, man, they're doing a series on Ecclesiastes. I just I feel devoid in the Ecclesiastes department. I feel like I'm gonna have to go with these people for a while. You know, I get I get the thematic parts of things like, you know, when we put up there, you know, today talking about the pace of peace of Jesus, you know. I I don't know. That could hit somebody going by, you know, just having the worst luck of absolutely everything. I don't know. Perhaps. Piece of Jesus. Hells. Yeah.

I'm not saying not that it would, but, you know, I mean, if if somebody is having, you know, every every the world has completely beat them up, they can't dig themselves out or they can't climb out of any hole that they've been in and somebody puts a sign up on there. It's just like you you hear a song on the radio and people, you know, blame it on, you know, holy spirit inspiration or whatever, but happens to be the song is playing that's gonna play anyway. I don't know. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Same kind of thing though. Right? I mean, maybe those words were for that one person that drove by and said, you know what? Everything is going by. I mean, it's just like the story of, you know, our friends that happen to hear that one word, you know, that they've been praying for and then it happens to show up. Who knows? Maybe. I feel like I couldn't do this in a healthy way. Like, I'd be out there changing the sign and like, you better read this, Chuck. This is for you.

Actually, you've just fed into Dan's kitschy slogans on the chart on the side saying, this is for somebody you guys don't know. Oh, crap. Shoot. You know what? It's it's that's the problem with the with the The Holy Spirit. This is He's unpredictable. Like, Holy Spirit can do what he wants, but like, we can be easily convinced that we're in on it. And so so we end up doing foolish things for long periods of time thinking, God can do what he wants with this. And which is a weird way to prove weird way to involve yourself in anything thinking there's nothing really great about this, but certainly the God can redeem it. So like, what are you doing every Thursday? Dodgeball? The Lord will redeem it. He could use it. Yep. That's the same. Righteousness. That's the same guy that still contends that when he he mows mows the grass without a shirt on. He's like, lord, you can redeem this. Make this your will. Bring people to you. I always start mowing the lawn in a cross and

I let it sit there and drink the brewski, and then I go back and finish it up because what if there's a pilot driving by and he sees the cross in the in the yard and he says, James, I mean, if there's one thing that maybe Christianity in general or or or Christ Church has done right, like, at least they know if you're looking for God, a church is a good place to start. Right? Like, we've done that with no advertisement necessary, no billboard necessary. If you're looking for God, that you know you know where to go. Everybody knows where to go. Yeah. But you know what? You know what? Shouldn't we wouldn't we feel better if their reaction wasn't I need to know God. Let me find a church. It was I need to know God. Let me find a Christian. Yeah. You you know I'm saying? Like, there's a bit of an institution where, like, yeah, that's where I go if I want that. Yeah. But you don't you don't wanna walk up to the guy that's got the t shirt on, though.

Right? No. Yeah. Yeah. No. So I guess you That that is that why I think people don't do that. That's why That's why I think you walk into a building because you're hoping at least you find one weirdo. Oh, man. What are the odds? You know the t shirt guy's in there. Do. You know, he's he's got an address. He'll be up front. You could you could squeeze into the back. Everything will be fine back there. No. Yeah. Actually, I I kinda have just like when you're on the stage or whatever, like, you know where the non christian areas are at? You don't Non christian seating. It's kinda funny that you bring that up though because like I don't do anything else that way. If I'm looking for a doctor, I ask people around me that know a doctor. Like, do you know a good doctor? Same thing with a carpenter or an insurance man. You know what saying? I'm like, I I don't go just to a doctor's office and say, hey, I need a doctor's appointment. Like, I I I Right at the hospital? Yeah. Exactly. Show me a guy. Do you know a guy that you've used blah blah blah. I would not people don't do the same with seeking God. Right? They just go to a blank church and say, someone here can help me. But I think it's more personal than that. I think it's the same that if it was like a I think put that example into like, you know, a proctologist. I'm not gonna just go ask people, hey, which proctologist would you go to? That's a private issue that I'm not gonna tell somebody about. I'm having a sin issue. I feel like I'm having some kind of issue. I'm gonna go to somebody that I can kinda trust. I mean, I had a friend that worked at what it's like I had no idea I was searching at all. And he came up and he said, you know what? I've just been having all these issues and you know, we've we've lost we've lost babies and and things aren't going well. And I feel like I feel like I'm just doing something wrong. I just feel like I I feel like I need to get my right my life right. And, you know, I don't think he would just walk in and just kind of blanket that out to to just anybody or just, you know, just ask a bunch of people around. So I think it's like it's a combination of that. It's like, yeah, you wouldn't wanna go in and just Right. Because of the because of the manner of which you're talking. Because you're basically saying my life needs to change, which is inherently saying there's something wrong with my life. You know, I suppose you don't wanna just throw that out to to anybody. No. No. But that that's what I'm saying. It's like when you when you say,

I wanna know more about Jesus. Let me find a Christian. It would imply that you know one, and that his life is obvious enough, and that they see Jesus in your life and say, like, know a guy. Right. Everyone wants you always wanna know a guy. And like, isn't that what's cool about that is like, if they were to come to and ask me about Jesus, the truth is is I know a guy. It just happens to be Jesus. And so, like, it's just a series of I know a guys until you can get hooked up with the right guy. That's the way Jesus did it, didn't he? Yeah. I know the father. Now you know me. Go out and tell those guys. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. That's pretty straightforward. Yeah. Yeah. From what I remember of his parables, he usually gave two two examples of how people would end up encountering the kingdom. One was they would actually be out there actively looking for it, and and they stumble upon it in their act of looking for it. The other one is the kingdom kinda comes and finds them. And so it it's like it's dropped in your life, now what do you do with it? But either it's looking for you or you're looking for it, but that's how people encounter the kingdom. So, you know, we can at least do one of those, and hopefully, they can find the other one. Boy, sometimes you got trouble when the kingdom's looking for you. I know. It's like a Scooby Doo for it, man. Like a friend Velma are always looking for the thing, and it but it always seems to find Shaggy.

Saul. Saul. You know? You're like, woah. Okay. You're listening live from the Path. What? Was talking to somebody earlier today, and the question was, it had to do with pro people's proclivities proclivities in the church. Right? So, like, let's say you struggle with a certain, certain problem, certain sin, certain whatever. Like, we probably should be careful in the church as to how what types of people you get in a room together.

Right? Like, let's say let's say you got people with what the heck is this? Think think about this. Hey, we have we have marital lust issues, and you wanna hold a class. Like, the last thing you wanna do is get 10 couples of which people are struggling into a room where it's easy to find another guy who also has that problem. Yeah. That's probably a good point. You know, and so like because we we were talking about I don't know. Just trying to orient the thought processes like, is that is that how people really solve problems? Do problems really solve when you get a bunch of people with the same problem in the room?

Is there a level of which you stop using groups of folk? And I was trying to think secularly, like, do people solve problems that same way? Are there are there risks to putting groups of people with the same problem in the room by them actually what like, think they're gonna be supportive and at least understand each other. But like, on the opposite side, you've also found another guy who who may or may not think the same way and give you an easy opportunity to recreate the things that you're doing in writing. There's a guy that wrote a book once about the fact that AA was more what the church should be than the church actually is. Because people come there acknowledging the fact that they have an issue, that they have a problem that they can't fix on their own Mhmm. And that they need help around them. And it's kinda like I mean, so I think in some ways, yeah, I think in some some circumstances, but maybe that's just because it's more maybe because it's got boundaries around it. So yeah. But that was the question. There's a pseudo anonymity, a non anonymity there. Anonymity. I mean, there's pseudo anonymity there because, like, maybe they just get a first name, and otherwise, you don't know that you've been you don't know where they're coming from. Right? But, like, if you have a big church and you have a bunch of people from the church who are coming to this class, like, you know that guy. He's in the directory. Mhmm. He might be serving communion next week. What is the directory?

Some people have a directory Oh. With pictures of people in it. I thought maybe it was a fancy Catholic thing that I wasn't aware of. Directory sounds like That's where the preacher lives. Oh, yeah. Moving on. So, like, sacrosity? Anyway. I'm still out. What? So anyway, like, I I I don't even that's not even going anywhere. It's just something was in my mind that I had to I had to think about, like, when we solve problems, the church, I think, solves problems in one or two ways. Like, we either do, like, a community of people, like specific people with specific problems or specific social circumstances,

or we wanna say, you deal with with someone like a close group of a a dude or two of two dudes. You know, actually, I've generally, the where I think and this might I'd have to think through this and think of if this is what I actually think. But, like, when the effects of sin that have been done to you, group settings, think, are probably very, very helpful. Right? Because people share, you know, a common experience of of sin that has been implemented on your life and changed your life in a very real way.

When you're the perpetrator of a sin, then I feel like it's a dude. A it's a one guy thing. I don't know why. I don't know why I feel that way. So if you're the victim, you should be in a larger group. If if you're the Perpetrator. Perpetrator, then you should be in a smaller group? I don't know why I think that, but yes. Is there question? Accountability in smaller groups? So I don't wanna talk about it. Don't have no Too late. Too late. Just feel like it's on you. That's the way. What if you're creating like a legion of I mean, you always run the risk of getting a I'm trying to think of a good example. Call them pornographers. Right? Guys guys are looking at porn. K. Mhmm. Alright. You get 10 of those guys in the room and they show up and like they have sympathy for each other. That's per they're the perpetrators. Right. Right. So so let's let's talk about through the risk today. They get in the room and then they have sympathy. They know what each other is going through. That's not intent that's not implicitly unhelpful. No. Right? But like, where you have sympathy and and people that are open about it, I mean, do you also run the risk of them picking up tips or,

like, otherwise, somehow feeling I mean, I don't want you to feel outcast really, but, like Feeling like mine isn't quite as bad as yours so I can continue pursuing it. Or you're doing it in such a way that I wouldn't even have thought of. Maybe I'll try that too. Hey, I struggled this week. I looked at this site. Tell me more about that site you're looking at. I think there's dangers in every way though because you could put you put the single guy together with, you know, married married people or whatever and then that things cross over. So it's really not it's not a matter. I don't think it's environment as much as it is just what you're bringing into it. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. Right. And are we are we are you creating an environment that helps protect them from that or that just kind let the breed? Well, think one of the big issue is you need the, if you've got a group of 10 people who are struggling with cancer together, you need an oncologist somewhere in there. Otherwise, they're just 10 people who are struggling with cancer. Yeah. Yeah. And so the same thing is true no matter the size of the group, you need a Jesus there, otherwise Jesus there's no is gonna be the oncologist in this example? Yes, is. Yes, he's the one who can

save. Because otherwise you've got just 10 people who are struggling and and, you know, they already have a proclivity to pursue this thing. Right. So they're just gonna wanna continue that and they're picking up tips and they're gonna eventually, you know, remove Jesus from that equation. They're just gonna create an environment in which that's okay for them to pursue and keep doing that. And they'll they'll legitimize it and they'll say, oh, yeah. It's okay. Here's my justification. And and they'll come to a consensus of, oh, okay. Yeah. That's cool. And and they'll pursue it together. But if Jesus is in the middle of that and he's actually the center of what that group is and what they stand for, then it's gonna follow Jesus' path instead of, you know, the sin path. Yeah. I feel like what I said earlier was right on without actually any needed explanation. Alright. I'm I'm hesitant on the mixed gender group adulterers night. Agreed. Yeah. I think you gotta know what you're getting to. Yeah. Okay. Hey. Those are the guys that I said get the one on one counseling. Yeah. No. That's true. Why don't you just call the show I agree with Mike? I feel like everyone's in agreement with it. Agree to you. I feel like that's dangerous.

You're not on the show anymore. Speaking of dangerous, there was a there was a rumor going around that that Dave Herrick was the pope. And I and there was I mean, the guy was talking about it. He was he was saying, no. No. This guy is the pope. I said, you said Dave Herrick? And he goes, yeah. I said, you didn't say pope Herrick. So maybe you got the wrong guy. They said, no. I'm certain Dave Herrick is the pope. So so anyway, what happened was Herrick is now stuck, in the situation where there are a bunch of people who now think he's the pope, and he's gotta come out and give some type of pope style advice. Otherwise, they won't leave. You know how the pope walks out on the balcony and gives the advice? So so pope Eric's gotta give that out. Otherwise, they're never gonna leave. Catholic things I don't understand again? Sacristy. Yeah. Okay. So He he said the pope. Yeah.

I'm confused. Pope. Pope. So so anyway, Herrick, you better give you need to give some pope style advice or people ain't gonna leave your lawn. You know, the thing is I brought this on myself. I I wore a funky looking hat, and and now everyone thinks I'm the pope. That's how this works. You buy a sweet mobile, and now everyone's confused. Yeah. I'm kidding. I should've cut with the pork pie. What a mistake. Alright. So here here's my advice, and I'm gonna start it with a a story, and I'm probably just gonna meander around for, I don't know, half an hour or so. And eventually, you'll you'll pick something There's out only room for one of me, Eric.

Don't steal my game. Alright. So years ago, I was I was fundraising, and there was a guy who responded to to God's call in obedience. And what he did was he's a farmer, and he donated something that he calls his first fruits. And and this is like an ancient tradition where where people would take the first yield of harvest from their field, and they'd give it to God. And so, you know, throughout winter, your field is not producing so people would just store up stuff

to live off of. And then when your field finally starts producing in early summer, they would take those first foods and instead of eating them themselves for all this fresh food, they would actually give that freshest, best food and they'd give it to God. And they would continue eating the winter leftovers,

no matter how thin it might be. They would just give first yields. And so that's what he did is he he kinda one of the modern, equivalents of this would be, just giving your first paycheck or giving your first, whatever it is. Well, he was a farmer, so he actually donated his first fruits from his field to us. And and when I say that, I don't mean the money from it. No. He actually donated a truckload of of wheat or two truckloads or I forget how much it was exactly. But just whatever his field produced, that's what he gave to to us.

And so I had to learn how to sell grain on the market in order to to turn it into something useful. But it was very cool the way that it happened because it was exactly the amount of money that we needed down to just even an interesting rounding issue that covered administrative amounts on the side. So it was very much God showing up in a very cool and wonderful way. And it's not something that if you look through and write down here's what Christians do or here's what's required of us or that Jesus mentioned anything, you're never gonna find first fruits in that. You'll find a couple of references in the Old Testament about how giving first fruits is something that honors God. But you're not gonna put this into any kind of requirements for what it means to be a Christian.

But he did this nevertheless just because it was an example that was shown. And because of the way that he believed that by doing this he would honor God, he basically made his life into a living example, and I got to see it, and I got to be blessed by it. And so, you know, now I'm kind of following the same sort of model,

even though it's not something that's required of Christians in any way. It's just something that I see and I realize how how God is honored by that. And I wanna take from that is the way that we demonstrate our faith is more important than even the words that we use most of the time, just because the words that we use need to be a reflection of the way in which we're actually living out our faith. So, you know, we a lot of times churches will try to throw out campaigns where, you know, you hand out pamphlets or or something like that or send out a message, but really the way that you are living your faith, the way that you're in obedience,

that should be a reflection of what your faith is. And the way that that is then blessing people around you is something that they're gonna take notice of, and they're gonna see God's pattern of doing things. Jesus' approach to life as it's being lived out in us is something that is going to communicate that love more so than just us going up and and speaking, you know, four principle laws or something like that about what it means to be a Christian or anything like that. Whatever kind of dogma or doctrine you you might try to say, hey, here's what here's what must happen. Instead, just the

the life that you live, the the way that you are demonstrating Jesus in your obedience, that's a testimony to to what you believe. And that's something that that the world's gonna queue in on. And as they recognize that that that's something that's beneficial,

that your approach to life inspired by Jesus is actual life as opposed to what the world has been selling them for years and years, they're gonna queue in on what real life is like just because the way that you're demonstrating it. And if your words then are also backing that up, then that's something for the that's easier for them to digest and say, oh, yeah. I want this. I want a part of this. So if you're gonna go out and and, you know, communicate your faith to people, make sure your actions are what's leading that discussion. And then talk about what your actions are are meaning and and what it's it's doing. So alright. That's the first part of it. Second part is

a lot of times we will approach God and our righteousness with God in terms of what does God require of us instead of looking at just the gifts that God has given us and seeing how these gifts are are there to lead us towards towards living. It's a a way of these patterns that God has has demonstrated are life giving patterns.

And in the way that we embrace these things, we we have more life in us now because of that and more life that pours out of us. So instead of looking at, hey. Am I meeting the basic requirements of x, y, and z? It's looking at, hey. There there are some gifts that God has given us, and they aren't necessarily requirements of us, but they're gifts. So, like, the Sabbath is one of those things that are that's an example of that. Most Christians wouldn't say the Sabbath is a requirement anymore, but it's something that is a gift for us. To take a day off from work and rest and just be in communion with God is something that is supposed to invigorate us with fill us with life.

And it's not a requirement. It's a gift. It's what it's interesting to think, like, to throw out the Sabbath and exchange it for ice cream. Sure. Like, someone someone comes up to you and says, hey. I got you this ice cream cone, and you're like, yeah. But I don't have to take it. Right. What the heck's the matter with you? Yeah. And and our our approach to God is so much the, hey, do I have to eat these vitamins? It's like, come on. These are delicious things that God is giving you. Even if you don't recognize them, just because they're different from the pattern that you might set for yourself, That's something that's life giving. Embrace it. You know, this pattern of first fruits, it's not a requirement of Christians, but it's something that as as I've embraced it, I I found life in it,

and I found it to be a wonderful thing, and I found my faith has grown because of that. So, yeah, embrace the gifts that God has given and let that be the ways in which you you live in obedience to God. Let that be the the discussion that you have with people. So alright. That's my advice. I think that that reorients how we

how people understand even the the moral things that Jesus speaks on. Mhmm. Like, if you look at these things that Jesus is saying as as as a gift. Right? Like, I tell you these things because I'm giving you freedom. It's in this. I'm giving you I'm giving you love. I'm giving you peace. And and and here it is. Don't don't do that. Gee, do I have to have those Jesus? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd rather I'd rather do this. I'd rather be greedy. I like my chains. Yeah. I like my chains. I like I'll just hold on to these for a while. And like we we do, like, why is Jesus trying to tie me down? I mean, he's he's he's setting you free. You just you know, like, we're we're coming at it from the wrong side of the equation. We're coming at it from what we would do, what I would do. And and and I I know this comes down sometimes, how you interact with your kids. Right? Or how especially how you interact with your kids. You're trying to find ways to,

to help them live the right kind of life, and we and we tend to do it, hopefully not literally, but with fences and chains. Mhmm. Don't do that. You better not don't do that. Better be careful. Don't do those things. I really don't want even if we say it nice. Right? Like, and some of it's because we're we don't trust that the kids will understand it if we say, no. Look. I I I'm giving you freedom. It's in this. By not doing this, you get x, y, and z. And it's questionable whether at all at all ages they can endorse you know, understand certain levels of that. But, like, in truth, I think I see the world that way, and I miss a lot of what of what Christ is giving me, simply because I I don't, I don't receive it in the right way. He's he's offering it as freedom. Sometimes I receive it as as a chain. Do remember that the men's conference a few years back? The guy came and spoke, and he talked about how he talked to his kids, he talked did the boundary thing. Oh, yeah. I never put that in context with my with our our relationship with God before. Basically, he said that when he talks to he sits down to his kids and he's trying to teach them on, you know, what he wants them to be like, you know, how he wants them to grow up and that's probably paraphrase because I don't it's been a while. Basically just he drew this this square on a piece of paper and he says, this is where I want you to stay. These are the things you can do. These are things you can't do. Everything stays in this box. This is what I expect of you. And he says, my job is to to increase

your boundaries. That's my that's what I want to happen. I want to increase your boundaries. And I'm not saying that this is like a and this gets kind of hairy. The analogy obviously breaks down because you're not gonna say, God say, you can do that now. See? Right. You've been doing it long enough. Sit away. But at the same time though, I wonder if you know when when we when we walk into this relationship, he's like, hey, this is this is where you gotta start, you know. And and maybe these these these rules and everything that we try to nail down on ourselves and try to hold on to for our entire lives are things that he intends for us to start out with to say, this is where I need you to stay right now. I'll increase your boundaries, but you have to understand the freedom that you've been given before you can live in it. Right. And I think that the point was proven like when you look at some of the stuff that seems to contradict what God said, like the fair like the priest working on the Sabbath or David eating the bread of the presents. Right? Like the fence is Yeah. You can't have these things. But it does depend on who you are, and it does depend on your relationship with God where the where the fence where God goes, okay, the fence is a little bit bigger. You know, it's not as black and white as I as I had to draw that fence. But now you're standing there, and now let's talk about it. Well, and that makes sense even modern day. You look at the guys, like the like the triple x church guys. Right? Like the guys who can go to the

the adult entertainment conferences and, like, interact with those people trying to help them know who Jesus is. And like, you have to know you have to know your freedom. Right? Like, he has not given me a position in life and to the extent that like, I feel like I could do that. I I could not do that. I think there's there's there's risk in that circumstance for me, and I have I have freedom

enough to know that there's not peace in that in that circumstance for me, but like there are some people who I I their their box is bigger. Like, through and it's not necessarily a like, faithfulness, but it could just be Yeah. It's not levels. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's just it's just even who you are. It's just shifted. Right? Like, it's not it's it's not in this plane. It's it's over in this meadow. Right? Like, it's just it's just a different fence. Yeah. But yeah. So yeah. No. I I think there's I think there's elements to that. And the question is is like,

here here's the thing. Is is is maybe think of what you know biblically. Now now reframe now reframe it, and now read it again. Not just like, oh, how can I apply that to what I know? Like,

can I take that lens and can I hear Jesus's voice through it? Because I I think that sometimes the deals like, we have we have times when we're studying scripture or hearing people talking, like, we reorient something, but we're still dealing off knowledge or understanding that we've taken in through an old through a lens that wasn't a complete lens. And so as as that lens evolves and as the picture becomes more vivid, can I take it in afresh? Can I can I seek through scripture? Like, when you talk about that guy who preaches the same thing over and over again. Right? Like,

if if I'm three months in and that's not refreshing to me, my lens is dirty. Like, the story of Christ is is refreshing. And and the thing is is, like, we wanna hear the the guy talk about it in a different way or awaken us and and and talk about it in an interesting way. And I think the Bible is deep like that. I think you can do that. But, like, I I I wonder if we need to make sure that not not just that you're formulaically reading through scripture, but, like and I'm not saying change your lens to something wacky. What I'm saying is that, like, as your as how you see the world continues to be opened up through scripture, are you then redigesting it to understand it as vivid as it was? Can I hear the words of Jesus in freedom when otherwise I might have heard him speak in chains? Or are you letting what God has done in your life filter

for you what you're going through? What what what are you saying? Because, like, I think all the experiences that you have, good, bad, or indifferent, help you to read the Bible with that different lens. But are you allowing it to or are you just going back to saying you're just looking at that scripture the same way you always did? Right. Or are you putting it through everything you've just seen and said, okay, now I get that. Or now that makes a whole lot more sense, you know, making the Bible I get what you said. I'm taking it in, and now I'm I'm letting it, you know, refocus. It's it's like it's like standing next to one of your kids and and focusing your camera so it's perfect. Walking back 10 feet and then not focusing again. Right? Yeah. Right. Like you you took in more of the world. You took in more of God's character. God showed you some things. And now your whole world is you're still looking at that kid going, well, that kid looks blurry. But I don't understand what happened here. Like I learned more from you, but I didn't apply it at all. Yeah. You know, was funny why Dave was telling that story. For some reason, I I I was thinking about the church and the hands and the feet. And

and like the the the guy that you were talking about that did the first fruits. First of all, that's a it's it's crazy awesome that he just basically handed over wheat. I don't know why I think that's so cool, but like, he's just faithful like Yeah. First fruits is what I got here. Is. Do something. God will he'll show you how to do this wheat. Actually, now that you say that, I I do I do love that because I think my first I would be hesitant there because I'm like, what are these guys supposed to do with this wheat? Right. I like the guy. He just he's like, yeah, this doesn't seem like my problem. I have the first fruits. God says, first fruits is what I got. Here it is. You know, it it's funny. Had he had he sold it and given me the money, it would not have been enough. Because by giving over the the wheat, I sold it on a a day that apparently the market was at a particular high, and that covered the extra 10% administrative cost that would not have been there in the estimated volume of the week. Stock trader. But, like, here's here's what hit me is is, like, that guy on his own without the church, without the community that we like to talk about was faithful. Right? Like, he spread the gospel on his own. He has a relationship with god on his own and and he was just faithful and did it and like the gospel spread with just him. Mhmm. And like, I we like

and feet of the church. Right? For the body to work, the red blood cell has to know it's a red blood cell and and do its job on its own. It doesn't go, I can't be a red blood cell without an arm. It still does what a red blood cell does. It does what its job is, and it has a relationship with the body regardless if that arm gets cut off or not, and now the body is armless. But that the red blood cells still acts the same because it's still part of the body. And like, I think sometimes we get lost a little bit in in our in our focus on community that like people in the individuals in the community don't act like they know God at all without it. You know what I'm saying? And like, it seems odd to get caught up in. But look and I was thinking about that really heavy this week, is if you guys left, if if because you guys are my community. It's where it's where I bounce off my relationships,

with the world and with God. I bounce them off you in general. If you were to leave, what is my relationship with God look like? And frankly, it leaves. It it there's some wanting. There's some wanting there. Right? What so I think I think what's interesting in that in that thought process is is that I don't know if that that implies a degradation of relationship necessarily. I think you are using community to its right purpose. I think where where that fails is we act like community is not made up of individuals. Right? So, like, it is where the the presence of a community around you gives you an excuse not to behave like you belong to a community that you care about. Yeah. Right? That's that's where your risk is. Right? It's like is it is it really is a a socialist bent. Right? It says, like like, I lose my individuality.

I'm fighting for the good of a kingdom, for good of a community, and, like, there is you are motivated in in in that. When we get individually oriented, I think then we get to say, well, what would be beneficial for me? Well, if I get the benefits of the kingdom and and this community, but they're gonna do all these things and I don't really have contribute all that, but I get the benefits. Like, people the people kinda bail on that. The truth is it works because everyone is serving the community in the same way and following and pursuing Christ in that way. And so, like,

it's it's an interesting it's it it seems like it would be circular, but the truth is is that, like, people as individuals have to care about the community in the same way that they would have cared about themselves. Otherwise, the community stops being healthy. Because, like, if you don't care about the the the health of that community

and everyone is doing that, like it's going to suffer simply for that purpose. Right? Well, I'm I suppose that the example you're drawing is one extreme to another. Right? Like like I'm not talking about a super individualistic dude, know. No. Yeah. I get But but like I I mean if you if you run through especially the Old Testament. Testament. Right? Like you don't see Noah walking around going I need community here. He's like, I'm faithful to God. I do what I'm told. Mhmm. And here's what we're doing. No. Yeah. Enoch. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Enoch. He's walking it faithfully for three hundred years. The the old prophets that were basically hated. Mhmm. Right? Like and it's it's not like they like I am them or or we're the same guy or God's got me on that on that particular path. But what I do know is is sometimes I use the community that the church is as a cushion and as a filter of which I interact with God. When really the purest form of joy and the purest relationship I can experience with the God of the universe is one that I choose to have. And and then it multiplied. Like if like like if the the

joy that that God can give me for knowing him, it multiplies in the community. Right? But like it I I have to have it to start. Right? There's nothing to multiply from if I if it's not an individual actual relationship with Christ. No. It's amplified. Right? Right. Yeah. That's that's the deal. It becomes it becomes the 10 seeds that produce a 100. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. So it's people that use the they use the community as a replacement for God. Right.

Or and, I mean, they don't mean to, but they do. Well, yeah, their their relationship with God is vicariously going through community instead of directly through Jesus. And I think we've had that conversation, like, a lot when it comes to when we were talking about some of the the needs of the homeless here a couple months back. Right? Like, is there a reason that your church has to organize a group of folks before you'll go out there? Like, just go out there. You know what I'm saying? Like, do you have to have T shirts and a banner and a and a meal beforehand and and fellowship or, you know, can you just go out there and help people because that's what god has put on your heart to do. You know, that that's interesting, actually. Like, I've been running that into that even in a, like, a church church scenario, and I I you you actually run into it, I'm sure, in corporate worlds and that guy now that I about it, I I've seen it. It's where like, we have this weird mentality that someone else

like, when you're part of a group, that the group isn't doing anything. But the truth is you're not doing anything. And so, like, it's it's weird that you can kinda disassociate yourself from a problem and say, why isn't anybody doing something? Without, you know, taking a mirror and be like, hey. I should be doing something. I had I something this week, someone was complaining about, you know, like, I don't know what's going on around here, and I don't know why like, no one's no one's really accomplishing anything. And I'm like, well, I'll we'll just take that I note that for one, but like, did

that's the first time did you do anything? Yeah. I mean, try doing that at your house. Right? Try walking into your house and look at your wife and go, no one's doing anything around here. The garbage isn't even taken out. Hey. Look. There's a mess on the floor, and nobody's cleaning it up. Well, maybe that should start with, I'm not cleaning it up. That's right. Yeah. Also, no one else is, but I am not cleaning it up apparently. And a real dad cleans it up first and then yells later. Like, guess what I had to do because you didn't do it. And and that, like, tell me you haven't heard that in the church. Right? Like, why isn't the church doing anything? Well, what I'm sorry. What did you did you do something? Did you and and here's the thing. Let's say your church stinks. Let's say you look around and no one's helping anybody. Like, do you wanna yell at them, or do you want them to help somebody? And maybe you could start, and then you could help your community get it right. Like, it's it's it's it's weird, especially in Christianity. Like, we when we we look at the church as an entity, people come in, and they have this thought process that says, this is what the church should be doing, but they don't do any of it. And, like, how can you expect a community of believers to be accomplishing something if individually they don't do anything? It's not magic. Yeah. It's a it's an awesome concept, but it's not wizardry. Maybe there's a reason that God put that sensitivity in your heart.

Yeah. Right. Maybe you are the one who's supposed to be leading the charge on this. No. That's not the way the Lord works with me. Tells me and then I yell at other people. I've seen I've seen So you have the gift of administration. I've seen very good examples of that, and I've seen very poor examples of that. Like someone who says, hey. This is it doesn't seem like this is progressing. How can I help? How can I dig in and work on it? I'm like, great. That's awesome. And then then, you know, two weeks later, you'll find the same somebody else who comes up and says, hey, this isn't progressing. Why aren't you guys doing anything? Like, what? Where's my other man? I could use, like, 10 of that guy. You know? But but, like, we're all guilty of that in some way or another where we look around and you wanna lament you wanna lament this the circumstance that we're in. I say, why? We're not feeding the homeless, and we're not caring for the widows, and, like, no one is saying the things that need to be said. As a matter of fact, I I'll give you a personal example. I was thinking, probably about six months ago, I thought, you know, when things feel stagnant and, like, there was there was I I had a culmination of things where, like, I thought things are just kinda sitting still right now. Like, the stuff that I was involved in at church, some stuff on the radio show was, and even even kind of my relationships at home, I thought, you know, I don't think these things are growing or moving like they're supposed to. And I thought, if I if I could re foundation some of these things, what would I do? And when I was thinking about church stuff, I thought, well, like, if I were if I if I were to start over again, I feel like we need to grow up as far as, like, we we may have hit a plateau with some of our understanding,

and we don't know how to move on on our own. I thought I would be teaching more classes. And I thought, why don't I just teach more classes? Like, look. That's dumb. And and I thought that and so, like, I fired one up two weeks later because I thought, how can I I look back and say, boy, we really should we should move up? We should amp up. We should know more. And I say, well, if this if that's something God has me doing, why how foolish I would be not to do it? Mhmm. And, like, to to take stock and say, I care about this because God has me caring about this, the natural reaction is to do, like, how do I then make an impact on it? And, like, the it's it's weird to think that the the God God may have put a burden on the guy that's whining the most in life because he wants, you know, to do actually something about it. And we've had that conversation before when Dave was talking about I don't I don't pray on stuff that, like, I I can't personally impact, because I feel like God may be giving burdens of things that I'm actually to do something about. Mhmm. And so it's just, I don't know. Like, we've got to do a better job of of recognizing what God has has brought to your attention

and then understanding that it is now, unfortunately, your responsibility to take it on. Well, doesn't it just come back to the fact that we've continued to make the church an institution as opposed to the church as an organism? Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's what it comes down to in my mind is that if the church is really in me, it's like you've seen the movie Stigmata? Yeah. Oh, so Yeah. The the the most poignant thing in the whole thing is like at the very end of the movie, you know, this I don't remember. I can't remember how the whole goes, but the church is in you. It's like, this whole Catholic movie about this stigmata all comes down to this fact that the church is in you. Right. Church is not this organization, you know. It just it was however it was said, it was said, you know. But yeah, it's just it's it's that, you know. The church isn't an institution that we continue to make it out to. So people come up and say, you know what, I just can't stand church because I just can't stand organized religion. I can't either. I really can't. But I dig a relationship. And I dig being a part of this organism. You know. And I think that's what we've we've changed it from is this organism into just this it's corporate structure because we don't live communally because we don't have to.

Mhmm. No. And and actually, isn't isn't the whole nature of the corporate structure of the church comes from our ability to try to have to cover for our lack of relationships and community. Right? Like we say, we have one guy who we hire to kinda handle all of affairs because if left as a community to handle it, we wouldn't do it. So we said, well, let's agree to pay a fellow, and we'll have him do it. And that's the way that's the way Paul did it. Right? I mean, he just yeah. He was just the one guy. Right? Right? And once you get big enough in your budget, you're able to bring on a second staff, then he's able to just handle off hand everything off to the second person. It's like, okay. Now I'll pick the tasks I wanna get involved in in second person. You know, the associate minister, you can handle all this stuff nobody wants. And here's and here's the deal. It's like, I've had conversations,

like, recently with people and, like, that had a bit of a, hey. What did you do yesterday, Towing? I'm like, I went to work. What did you do? Yo. You work too. Hey. Yeah. Okay, friend. You know, and it's just it's just as weird. It's the the thought process that that says the things that our community should be doing like, if the community doesn't do it, it doesn't get done. And people wanna recoil at that. Well, isn't so and so responsible? I'm like, I feel like you misunderstand how this works. Let me show you this mirror right here. But but the tree. Isn't it sad I had to buy this mirror for this? Yeah. I've used this, like, five times. But

you know what's you know what's interesting is that the truth is is that, like, if I'm a to have a heart of a bit of a heart of grace on the matter is, like, we've produced that, and we have perpetuated it. And it's it's it's a tough road to try to pull people out of this is not a corporation. And it perpetuated because we don't trust people that we're gonna hand it to. We don't we don't trust people to just do it, or we don't press we don't either It's because they don't. They don't do it. That's why. And it's well, that's true. It's and it's not we don't want them to they're not gonna do it the way we want it to be done. Right? The reason they don't do it is because we don't do it. It's Right. I don't do it. Ergo, the whole community doesn't do it. That's exactly right. Yeah. And and it changes when the moment you'd make a decision to, I'm going to do it. And and and if you have a full community where everyone is firing on, I'm going to do it, that's a community that gets some Mhmm. Stuff done. Yeah. I mean, an infectious attitude.

Yeah. Plus, you I mean, when you when the church operates that way, that you you will be blown away every day on the stuff people are getting done that you don't know anything about. Mhmm. Right? You found out some guys down there building he's he's taken underprivileged youth and he's rebuilding the houses with it and you're like, no kidding. I didn't know anything I didn't know anything about this. You know? That is a healthy organism. Yeah. There's nothing that makes me happier to find out that there's things growing and happening in the church that I had no idea were going on. I I love it. And like there's I've had people that they'll come up and ask and say, well, do you know about this? I'm like, no. I have no idea. Sounds awesome. Yeah. Well, why don't you know about all this? I'm like, I I what do you want? I don't wanna keep tabs on it. Like, let God do what he does, and then I'll celebrate with you. Tell me more about it so I can be excited. Feel like I'd like the three stooges eye poke people that talk like that. But why don't you know about what's going on? Think. Shut up. Why don't you mind your own business? I mean, like, here's the things that we we've we've perpetuated that, though. Someone is responsible. Some some man is responsible somewhere. And it's I mean, obviously, there's roles for

spiritual leadership in in in Christianity. But but, like, it has become way more of a, not, not tending sheep, but, like, scheduling them for a field trip. Fencing sheep. Well, mean, Paul didn't have any like spies out there like coming back and saying, hey, did you hear what these people are doing? These people are doing. These people are doing. They're starting this ministry and then they're not saying the right stuff. I think it just comes out. Right? Yeah. I mean, so we worry about that kind of stuff. So, you know, we have to like have this this this cap on things to make sure that things aren't going wacky and people aren't teaching wrong things or whatever.

It just comes out. Right? I mean, I Yeah. I don't think you have to sniff out. If you were if you were in a Jesus following church and, someone is is talking heresy, like, it's not like you're not gonna find out about it.

I feel like you'll it'll it'll come to light if you have a group of people that are trying to follow Christ, there's a guy saying something that's outlandish. That's appalled. Right? You just end up calling him out and says, I heard that some people weren't speak speaking to this stuff. You know what Here's what I hear. Don't fall into that. Yeah. And and I suppose, like, the presence of it is simply a an opportunity for the for the right teaching to be like, here's what they said. It's not right. Here's the right thing. Mhmm. And even then, we like, we'll probably even over heretic we we overreact to the heretic. Like, we just we need to correct false teaching and and protect people from it to the extent that it continues. Right? But, you're right. It's it's even even full time clergy folks have reinforced this by, by overcommitting,

but it's also it's a very hard thing to change how people think about those things, and, I think, it's it is, at times, a rough transition. Well, the the world will often engage a church in as though it's some kind of a cookie cutter franchise, and and churches will have the same expectation on themselves. That every church must have a a pastor, must have a, you know, dynamic worship leader, must have a a children's minister that's, you know, gonna be there at your beck and call to wipe all the kids' nose at every point in in the day. And, you know, has to have all these strange things that aren't necessarily biblical, but, you know, every church has them anyway, so, you know, you must. And if you don't have that dynamic energetic youth minister, then, you know, you're deficient in some way. So we better go find a guy to just plop him into the into that place and have this expectation that they're gonna fill even if that's not their calling. And we just end up,

you know, trying to build ourselves into something that's the image of what the world has been saying at churches instead of what God says you guys really are and simply making peace with this is what God has given us. These are the people who God has given us, and we're not gonna be like all the other churches. We're just gonna be the people that we are following God in the way that God has called us, and that's okay. Wait. We're gonna come back to that. Hey. You've listening to Life in the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far this evening. If you're listening on the truth network ninety nine point three FM, we have got to let you go. Big thanks to, Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team. Go to Eisenhower team dot com for all your home buying and selling needs. Bob is a great man, and the rest of his team is also awesome. So, go to isonlauderteam.com. If you are listening to the podcast, we'll be right back with you. And as always, be faithful in the means. God will take care of the ends. You're listening to live from the pack.

Kinda what you're talking about, Dave. It's like, how how crazy would it be if you had, like, 10% of the churches that were around, they said, you know what? We don't do kids programming. Sure. We don't we don't have we don't have the people for it. I don't think you can be all things to all people. I I I think that you you need to understand that God has given you a certain amount of gifts. He's given you only a certain amount of knowledge of who he is and and act in what you've got. You know, he's given you some gifts. He's given you some equipment. That's what you should be using to demonstrate his glory. You shouldn't be trying to fake something else. Right. Know know who you are. But we've gone here before. I mean, we talked about this a little bit when we're talking about, VBS stuff. Oh, man. Yeah. You know, it's like I feel like but there is there's a hole there that, you know, these kids need

they they need something that that fits them. Mhmm. You know, I mean, throwing all the kids in the big church for their entire lives could be okay. I mean, they could all they could all catch on to that. They get but we also have to speak at their level at some point Mhmm. Which I think and not that you have to have, you know, this piece of the puzzle, but that that area of your church still has to exist somewhat to help these kids grow. I mean, because you mean, you don't kid you don't send, you know, your four year old to high school. Yeah. But can't they go to the VBS down the road? They're God's people too. They just don't get it here. Right? I guess that's true. I'm just I'm just thinking about ministry wise, you know. I mean, you gotta have a place for them. Well, I I and maybe that's the question because, like, that that's trying to fit your current your current puzzle piece into a different puzzle. You wanna say, like, what what what if there were as opposed to I told the I I I provided a what is a difficult example, which is to say you cut your kids programming. But let's say, like, that simply isn't what you start with. You say, look, we just don't have that. And so you're likely to attract, people of certain circumstance or kids of certain ages or whatever.

Well, you just can't those things can't be accommodated. But then you're you're then you're just targeting your audience better. That's all you're doing. Well, it's but but that but not Or you're limiting your it it is a limited audience, but it isn't implicitly wrong to limit your audience based upon the skills that God has given you. Like, and that's probably more of the question is like, without being all things to all people, are you using the best of what God for the most effect of what God has sent you. If God has sent you those things, and you're God has sent you the right person and the right the right group of people to do, like, awesome kids program that that connects people with Jesus and, and does all those things, and you're not doing that, you have a problem. Right? But if if he's not if he didn't send that to you, like, maybe your family style worship. I don't know. It's just I think the I think I think the question is is is that, like, does God bake different cookies? Is it okay to be a church that's never more than 40 who doesn't ever have kids programming because that's that's simply isn't what you're designed to do? And that's not unheard of. I mean, look at Paul and Peter. Right? Paul was sent to do something. He was sent to do something specifically. And Paul was and and Peter was the same way. Right? Like, Paul's like, I'm going out. You guys hang tight. I'll cover these folks. You cover these folks. That's what I'm built to do. And it's not like they built competing churches for the Jews

in Jerusalem. You know I'm saying? Paul said, this is what I'm designed to do. This is where I'm going. Mhmm. And so, like, I'm I know that's a broader example because there's kids everywhere. But you know I'm saying? Like, it's not unheard of that that that, you know, that Christ will use you for ministry for specific people. And frankly, the distraction, is sometimes that that that that you were supposed to be more than you were. Right? Like the distraction is that you get wasted doing doing things that you weren't supposed to. It's just like if if if Paul's goal was to go out and talk to the Gentiles Mhmm. And he said, yeah, but I gotta get the Jews too, and then start spending half his time in Jerusalem where God already had it covered, then he's not doing what God asked him to. Right? Like he's not fulfilling what what he was gifted to do and what he was designed to do. Right. And I think that I don't think that implies that, like, you see the whole like the basic nature of how a lot of churches work blows up. Right? There's a reason that there's a reason it works that way. There are there are people with kids. You have wide ranges of pro like stuff that people can go to Mhmm. Different ways they can learn on their level. Like, I I I don't think that blows up, but I think I wonder if we have kind of a limitation that says this is how things are supposed to work. I I would gladly. In fact, I do. I I we we don't have VBS here because, frankly, we just don't have enough people to put it on well. My kids go to a VBS at at another church in town, and they they're awesome. They do a great job. The kids have a great time. I I don't have much more motivation to say, hey. We need to do that here, But they're doing it over there. Right. My kids should go do that. Right. So actually, I feel the same way. I never think, man, my church sucks. It doesn't have a VBS. I think my kids go to VBS here. They seem to love it. They're good godly people running the place. Mhmm. I I don't think any less of my church for not having it. Frankly, it seems more of a hassle. We gotta get everything out. We gotta make a big to do. I don't know. They're pulling off VBS just fine. And here's and here's the thing. There's there's places, like, I look at church, especially kind of the ones that we know. Right? Like, if someone was bringing a concert in,

we've got a good we've got a good space for it. And I don't think that church would be upset because they said, oh, hey. Go check out this thing that's going on on at at Pathway. They got they got stuff going on. They got a good space for it. We we should be using what God has given us and the people and the skills that we have to the best of our ability. But I don't have any reason to want to see other things that are going on in God's kingdom and say, hey, sweet. Let's get on board with what God's doing over there. That's awesome. I I love my kids are part of that stuff. And there's even a part of me that says like, I I I don't know, I feel a little guilty of of trying to establish something in our area if God's people are otherwise doing it in a way that is pointing people to Jesus and, people are being served in that way, like Well well, we and we've specifically run into that in the past. Right? Like, there's certain organizations that are that are helping a group of people,

and, and and you set up. You're like, we're gonna go do this, and we're gonna help these people, and this is what we're gonna do, only to find out that God's people have been doing that for the last five, ten years. They're just not making a big stink about it. Right. And they've been doing a great job, and we basically showed up and tried to compete with them Mhmm. Like to no gain. Yeah. And like and and that and and because of it, we washed out. We said, you know, you guys got this covered. We don't mean to step on your toes or you run a good system. You know what? We're gonna bow out of this thing. And like, that's the right move. And we were running to troubles when people go, no. No. No. The the our group of people from God's church is gonna do this too, and you're just gonna have to move over and let us in. Right. Like, that's foolish. Like, God has these people already rocking it. It'd be foolish of us to roll in there and say, no. No. No. God's got us rocking it. You need to back up. Well, where do you draw the line though? Because, like, if there's a church in town that's doing some great stuff, do we all just become that church? I mean, and then I'm being facetious, but you know what I mean? Like, okay. Hey, that church on the corner, man, they rock it. They have concerts. They have this. They have that. Why don't we just become them? You know? I mean, so to that point, you know, this ministry is doing a great job. It absorbs us in here. That's great. We're cool. But where do you draw that line where what's I suppose wherever Jesus draws the line. Right? It's a cop out. Yeah.

Hi, big hi, big church. I'm losing my identity. I can't get on board what you're doing. Like, I mean, I don't know. I I don't know that, like here's the the nature of this this comes down to the nature of how people make relationships. Right? Like, I think there's I think there you start running different there are different risks, but there are risks in like larger numbers people get lost people don't make connections and that kind of thing, but like when it comes to the church being the church. There's not a measure too big of which we say. Yeah. We love Jesus. We're going out as a group well and so and but but talk about the distinction you're making, though. Right? Like, you're talking about where people meet on Sunday morning. Right? But the way that the church acts as a whole throughout the week, we could certainly partner up with big old rocking church that seems to do really good in homeless ministry. They seem to rock it. There's nothing wrong with us meeting up with those dudes on a Tuesday and going out and do it. Maybe for sure space wise or financial reasons or or or pastoral

care reasons or staff or whatever, we're in two separate locations on Sunday morning. Well, I the teaching's going down. Well, I think that church down the oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Why is it okay for the members of a particular body of Christ to go to QT for their for their gas and go to Hy Vee for their groceries, but not have their kids go to a Methodist church because the Methodist church apparently disagrees on some random issue about carpeting or something than the church that they go to. Why should that division be in place, but it's okay to embrace

a quick trip for gas? You know? Otherwise, if you if you're saying, hey. The church must do everything, then all of a sudden now you you're expecting a church that provides gas and groceries and and starts getting into just ridiculous also what the work as your pharmacy. Yeah. To be a pharmacy. Eventually, it's like this little monastic enclave of what you're expecting your your church to be and it gets ridiculous. Pounds are formed. Yes. Exactly. But but the but the church down the street from my house, I mean, they're doing they do stuff all the time. I mean, they're even having like this big huge welcome back to school bash. You have a pretty cool church down the street. That's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, I'm like, that's cool stuff I'd love to to, you know, to do it together and do with, you know. It's like, not that I'm saying we have to do that stuff. We could. I mean, there's a little, you know, stadium down here. Why couldn't we just do some kind of a outside worship event and then get some games out and do some fun stuff too? But again, why don't we just become that church? I I know that it's because there's different teaching stuff, whatever. But you know what I mean? That that's where I don't understand But I would totally send people to that church Oh, you do. To that bash and say, hey, they got this going on. Yeah. We do our teaching Sunday morning in Johnston, but God's church is also doing this bash, it turns out. They're based out of this other building. But they but they do this bash Yeah. That I think everybody should go through. Sounds awesome. The barrier to I think the what you are saying is is that there needs to be a level of ownership somewhere.

Right? So, yeah. Why are we why are we not those people? Oh, we're Christians. Right? Like, we are those people. You're just making distinctions about where people are at and what types of things they have going on. And and it's not it it really isn't a battle. Well, how much do we take on of what they're already doing to do ourselves, and how much do we just say do it over there? It it depends. Like, if if God has you doing those things here because those needs aren't being met or people ain't traveling, then, yeah, then I think you do that. If if it's otherwise is being accomplished across the street from you and it's going well, I don't know. There may not be a reason to fight. Mhmm. Yeah. I feel like if we could get more open to that, we move a lot more organism style opposed to individual. We move very individualistic. Like like our churches, they just do. Like that we're not part of the same body. We fight each other more than we help. Yep. And I I and there's I mean, there's parts of I grew up in the church. Right? Like, my mind is kinda in that realm, and that's hard to fight with. That's hard to get rid of. But, like,

I mean, I don't know. The more the more I guess that I read through scripture and the more that I just look the way that that that life has lived, I feel like, that's a that's a foolish battle. Right? There's there's people that run the Methodist Church down the road. I they really do. They run a nice the but the VBS in my hometown is fantastic. They do a great job. They love my kids. We're only there for VBS. They love my kids. With Christ's love, they love them. And, like, I'll take them there every year. I have no reason to take them to our church. We don't do one whatever. And I'm I'm not bothered by it. I'm frankly happy that they get to meet God's people that worship somewhere else. I really just don't have any issue with that at all. I don't I don't have an issue with, like, the fact that we we need to own something to put our name on to say, Pathway Church does this or do do does this. But it's like, just don't know at what point we are failing the people that maybe we could be serving. And again, we could send them that way, but if they I don't know. I I guess mean, if they were part of our community and they wanted to attend to Bash, then we tell them to go over there. Right? Yeah. Like, I mean, it's not like you do. I don't the kind of guy that goes, hey, I can't come to your church because you don't have a Bash. We can't help you. Right? You're not here for the right reasons. I can say, well, if you wanna go to Bash with me, the other part of our community that happens to own that building is doing one. You know, actually, that comes back to something that you had said a little bit earlier that I think I think makes sense, which is, like, do we have a trust that other people will do things the right way? Like, if some of it is like, we may need to humble ourselves a little bit to the thought that God has other people that can handle these things. Right? It it is not it is not on us. That's hard, man. I know. And it's even even think think about this way, like, some of the some of the boundaries that you otherwise might put in interacting with people. Like, let's say, there's a there's a lady in the church who's who's going through hard times and, like, she's describing her issues and you're like, you know, I I I care about this person and I wanna make sure that they're helped. But the truth is is that, like, I can't agree to do this because it puts us both in a risky situation. I have to trust that there are ladies in the church somewhere

that will take care of this. I don't have to I would you don't have to take an unnecessary risk in a relationship simply because I don't trust that that that God has someone else that can do it. And and some of that's a a trust that that God will take care of people. And and maybe that's true on a broader scale too. It's like, let's say we don't offer VBS, and and and your rationale is to say, boy, there's there's look. Within two blocks, There's nowhere there for them to go to VBS. I'm like, really? God god had he he there's no way for god to accomplish this. If we don't do it, it it never happens? Like, it's not a good reason. Like, you you take that too far and you don't do anything. Right. That's you're you're in that, unfruitful community item. Right? But, like, can I can I say, can can God work through something else that isn't that isn't us? Sure, he can. And and if that's true as the church, what what we see hopefully filter out is that people are doing the things that God has them doing, and people are getting the best best experience out of those things. And then where they're not strong, the rest of God's people are in there, and the rest of God's people are in there doing other things, and then we're actually mutually serving the things that God has us doing without having to recreate generally poorly, such a widespread wheel. Like, think of all the things in a given church. They all the skills and the people and the knowledge that you need to do to meet people's basic expectations of what a church offers. And now stretch that across x number of churches on x number of blocks and x number of cities and x number of counties and states in in the world. Right? And so so now what you've done is you've put a pretty huge burden on the talent and ability across all these churches to meet a bar that seems a at least a little bit unreasonable

on what the church can do because we're recreating those things in a poorer fashion because we're not necessarily sharing those types of resources more more equitably. But act and actually, I think that boils down to kinda a little bit of what I was talking about earlier about the the individual relationship with God and and and and seeking the Holy Spirit. Right? Like, some of that's on me to listen to God and what he wants me to do. If you if I mean, if if Jared showed up next week and said, look, I've been praying on this thing, I feel like the holy spirit says we're firing up a VBS. I can't really argue with you, right? If that's what he said, that's what we're doing. Do it. That sounds great. But if he didn't say that and you're just trying to manufacture one because that's what the community is doing, maybe maybe we have a discussion to have. Right? And like that's where I think that that that we fall sometimes based on this on on the church community. And once again, it's it's not a bad gig. Right? But like if you don't listen if if you're not seeking

what God has you doing, and it may be nothing, but it may be something. And if you're not actually seeking that, to show up with some with some things to say, then you're really at the whim of what the community next to you is doing or whoever's doing whatever in your community, and it could be right. It could be not. No. It's true. It's like holy spirit tailgating. Yeah. Right. Hey. There that church over there is doing the right thing. Let's do what they do. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. And maybe the holy spirit didn't want you doing that. That's why he didn't knock on your door. And God looks down and he says, I sent you a guy, a holy spirit to live in you personally, direct your life, and your solution was see what Stan is up to and do what Stan is doing. I said I show up What a waste. I said I would show up with fire, and you were like, that guy's got fire. Yeah. Stan's got a big TV. That's what you're doing. You're go, you're looking at, you're looking at at at the Holy Spirit through binoculars and going, what's he doing over there? Like a nosy neighbor. That's what you're doing. When you're participating in the kingdom of god and figuring out how to run your church body and how to interact with community, you're doing it with binoculars across the street without actually just asking God Isn't that the picture of the American church, though? I mean, basically, what some church does

x, y, and z, and they get big. And so then they publish it and and let everyone else know, hey. We did x y and z. And so now all the other little churches out there are saying, oh, we better do x y and z too and and see if we can get big instead of just listening to the Holy Spirit and say, okay, Holy Spirit, what is it that you want us to do in this area for this community? How can we best glorify God? And and they're following x y and z instead. And there's a huge difference there when the when when when the Holy Spirit has said, okay. Here's here's what I want you to do. I've done this with somebody else. I want you to ask them the process. Here's how I had them do it. Here's how I want you to do it. Like, that's okay. Yeah. Right? Like, hey, we're doing this and this and this. This church has experience in that. My Stan has experience in that. I taught Stan how to do this. Go ask Stan. Okay. That's not that's not the same problem. Yeah. But it's never reduplicated. It'll be, hey, you're gonna do it, but you know what? Yours is gonna be a little bit different because you're in this area and because you've you're oriented differently. You're Yeah. But it still comes down to feel like there's a formula. Like, you have to I mean, the the basic pieces, you know, like, you can't play chess without these pieces. You know, so That's true. There there are some essential formulas. I mean, Ephesians four eleven outlines what what some of the five things that a church has to have

in order to really function, and and it mentions apostles and prophets and and teachers, evangelists, and I forget what the last Pastors. Of those, though Pastors. How many though are those the things that we're actually talking about? But yeah. Those aren't those aren't program directors. Those aren't, you know, having, you know, engaging and dynamic youth minister. Those are those are things that are essential for a healthy body. It's kind of like the way that a human being has to have a heart in order to be able to operate and and pump the blood. It has to have a brain in order to send out the the signals and and process things. Maybe eyes are not essential. You know what? Maybe hands are not essential to being a human being, but some of the other things,

essential. And They're they're they're more roles than they are Duties. Programs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the thing. It's like the it's like my my instinct is to is is to fight this. Because I I love the formula. Because I feel like you can't lose with the mathematical formula. It proves to be true almost every time. Right? Like so my gut is to fight this. But that same gut is what's fighting the holy spirit of doing something great. Right? Like, I want the Holy Spirit to conform to my normal and say, this is what I have in mind. I want you to bless this thing. Yeah. This is my box. You decorate it. Yeah. And I and and and I'm capable of drawing a very small box in comparison, and I'm like, paint this with vivid colors.

But I feel like Acts kinda addresses this. I mean, what the message that works in Jerusalem didn't work in Antioch. It didn't work in in Corinth, and it certainly doesn't work in Laodicea. They they needed different messages in terms of how God was glorified and how Christ was revealed to them because they just come from a different culture and different set of circumstances.

And and we, as a body, kinda need to be sensitive to the fact that maybe there are some things that are universal, but then there are also some things that are just very specific to how how God is doing things in us. Yeah. That's true. As different as people are, like, can put that in perspective that God doesn't use a stamp. He uses a paintbrush. Right? Like, and he is that I mean, look, the people he he's created are that individualistic. I like that bumper sticker. I was I was thinking of god going like with the with the one of those stamps and he's like, stand, stand, stand. Stand, stand. Making stands, putting them everywhere. Stan knows my what I do. He does a great job.

Where's my Enoch stamp? And yeah. I I think the it's not that I don't think there are levels of what of what is normative

and and that those things might bubble to the to the top and, like, you see some consistency in those things. I just I wonder if we're sometimes limited by that because we assume this is how it is it is supposed to be. Like, if you were to take the average setup of a worship service, even even take Sunday worship service around the world, what is that? I mean, does it look like the our American formula of worship service? No. That we've that we've crowned it and said this is how it's done? No. It absolutely does not. Right. What was I heard somebody, a guy telling a story one time. He says, you know, like, we are, they were talking about the length of the church service. And, and what was it? This guy guy was in, like, Africa or somewhere, and he's like, they're they're in church for ten hours. Yeah. They get there four hours early and they're praying before,

then they do, like, two hours with the worship, and then they're praying after having a meal or something. Over thirty five minutes here. They'll murder you. Yeah. Sniffing around. Walk into the door. Thirty five minutes is even on the long end. And so, like like, the the question is is our formula is our formula a product of what we will tolerate versus a product of what we should be otherwise focusing on?

Well, there there have been other examples of things that, you know, even in our country that are different. You know, like Driscoll, he was a he was an hour long guy, wouldn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's other guys that are, you know, hour and a half guys. You know? I mean, I don't know if those are I don't know what kind of churches those are, but I guess they're they're out there. There's those those outliers, but I don't know where how we got down to this formula of you have these pieces of your staff. I mean, I think of your staff of of your your church, like, mean Actually, I now that you say that, like, pastor, what kind of a gig is that? It's a false gig. We don't wanna we don't wanna pay you the same as the one guy. You can't really commit your duties, and we need someone to sweep the floor. Executive pastor. It's a false gig. Yeah. It's yeah.

It's a made up title. You're really just a janitor. Enjoyed going to worship in in Latin America where they would meet at night intentionally because they were celebrating the Lord's Supper.

And I'm like, you know, having a discussion about why it is at night. And they said, well, because it's the Lord's Supper. So, you know, that's what we're doing. Into the evening. You know, it doesn't make sense to do that at breakfast time, so we're meeting at night. So okay. Cool. I'm gonna let that make yeah. That makes some sense. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Yeah. I and I I suppose that's the thing, though, is we we it's probably health healthy exercise to figure out what box what what about our box is an American box or or a cultural box? And what is a

and what is a biblical influence? I like, I'm I I continue to be free. Actually, communion is communion is a good example. I continue to be frustrated with communion. Like, I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to to help to to reorient how we look at communion. Because, like, the biblical communion, I just don't I feel like doesn't look at all like what we do.

Like, something that's oriented community is very singular and quiet and close to the vest, and and I don't know how to change what was what was ultimate ultimately, one group coming together as one that is otherwise extremely individualistic in our Western culture. And I like

like, I don't know that we could shake that. I I given how people are used to doing it and what they think and we like and we I don't I don't even know what people are thinking about. Like, when we say you need to think about something and you're pondering in your mind and you're like, what what is it is that what's going on in the Lord's Supper really? Like, in in biblically, is that what's going on? Like, I I don't know how we got to that point, but in either case, I think actually, I think it was a fear. It was fear that if I take it in an unworthy manner. And, like, that has dictated how communion works in the American church is the fear that we will take it in an unworthy manner. And so we've we've turned it's a very individualistic thing as opposed to people in community taking communion together as a body. And that was so important to Paul that he said, if you do it before other guys are getting there, that's why people are sick. I think Jonestown ruined it for us.

So when when I was a kid, we used to take it all together. You'd pass out the trays, you'd be to hold it, and we'd all take it together. I think Jonestown ruined that for all of us. The Here's the deal. Like Wait. Wait. They they voluntarily drank clamate or whatever. Yeah. There's something weird about so everybody's gonna get sick. There's something weird about everybody doing it altogether, it seems like. I don't know. Lord, we can't do this together. We might get ill. No. I just I'm just it seems ritual I mean, the ritualistic part about it. No. It is, but it's it's just it's like if if the root of communion is not community understanding, like, as a community understanding who Christ was, I don't know what it is based upon how it's described. But you're you're saying community as in commune with each other or commune with God. So Both. Both. Yeah. Because, like, what was do you ever see do you ever see people taking individual communion

from a biblical example? Like, think of Paul the Paul's big teaching on it is you're you're eating before everyone's there. Right? Like like and if you keep doing this, like, now you now you know why some people are you are sick, it's quite the indictment. People are sick because you're taking it individually. Well, it's when we took it away from meal to a cracker. It wasn't too much of issue of them taking individually. It was just that they were trying to they were trying to enjoy the meal the same way that they enjoyed every other meal before that. And that would basically be the rich people come in, and they they eat all the best food, and then just then they get up and leave, exit the room, and then the servants come in and and they can eat whatever is left over. And they would approach the Lord's Supper in the same way where you still have these different classes in in within the church. And so you'd have the rich people coming in and and enjoy their meal, and then you'd have the the servant class come in later. And and Jesus his kingdom is very much oriented around everyone has access, equal access to God through him, And this this rich or poor thing doesn't make any sense in his kingdom. So we we're down to the crumbs now. So we give away crumbs on Sunday morning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. I hate individualistic communion. Like, I'm I'm being if if I'm being real honest, I hate that time of the service. I never know what to do with it. Everyone else is having some kinda I'm assuming a heavy reflection. And, what no. It doesn't matter what has been said. I will grab the stuff, and I will sit there, and I was like,

do this in remembrance of me. And I think, what would Jesus really look like? Well, I wonder. And then my mind is gone. Like, I try to create a super heavy moment that is artificial. It's not really there right now. Like, I try to do it, and I'm like, why are you not why are you not more heavy? Everyone else seems heavy right now. Why am I not heavy? I don't feel heavy at all. And I'm like, hey, Lord. I don't know what to do with this stuff. I I you know. And then like, I'm I'm really if I'm being honest, I'm trying to manufacture a moment that is just not currently right. It's not there. Like you've said, it's coming in thirty minutes. Prepare yourself for the super heavy moment, and you can reflect on your week and how you either screwed it up, or you know, how you're a terrible person, or what, or I mean, like, all these things are truths in my life. I know I I I have the truth of what Christ did for me. But like, I'm trying to shove it in like thirty seconds before the pastor comes on, and I'm like, I I I'm failing at this. I'm failing at communion. And then I feel like a schmuck. Yeah. Repent for your communion failure. It's terrible. Like, I almost don't wanna do it because like I just don't I don't know what to do with it, and it's confusing to me. See, I hate it. I think the stuff that that goes on during communion is not it's not wrong things. I just it's got a weird tie to the Lord's Supper that I'm not sure

it has to be bound to. Right? Do I wanna consider do I wanna consider the stuff the Lord has done for me? Do I wanna understand nature of his character and, like, and and think about those things and and otherwise, like, reflect upon my life? I think all those things are very healthy things. I just like, we've we've to a certain extent, maybe bound them to community in a way that I'm not sure is biblically necessary. I'd I I'm not gonna say that it's inappropriate. It just doesn't seem that that necessarily is how they're approaching. To it seems way more like a party. Weak, like there's something missing from from the biblical picture just because Jesus was having a feast with with the other disciples, and there was, you know, hours of discussion, and they were remembering the things that God has done. And and it was a a long process. It it was part of a a meal that they would genuinely have, a real meal. It wasn't just an artificial cracker that we're gonna try and turn into a meal. It it was no. They were actually having that supper meal,

and they would turn it into a special meal. And what we do is we kinda create this awkward thing after breakfast, before lunch that we wouldn't normally have, and it's not even a full meal. It's like a cracker. And somehow try and bring a bunch of spiritual symbolism into it in those thirty seconds instead of just embrace the fact that it's a meal.

Why don't Have turned we the umbrella upside down instead of saying, you know, he says do it as often you do it in remembrance of me, saying we're gonna do this as often as we can so that we can remember you as opposed to saying whenever you do it, whenever you get together, remember me. Have we have we turned it upside down so that we're saying we're gonna do as often as we can? Yeah. I I think so. I think it is more it is more in the understanding that, like like, when you're coming together as a community, this is appropriate to remember me and what and and what I've done. Because, like, it is quite frankly, it's part of that identity that the community, that's where your identity comes from. And so, like, you remember these things and and and frankly celebrating them because where that's come from as opposed to

as opposed to to maybe something that seems more formulaic. And it's weird to think that you were that we're checking a box, but we are kinda checking a box. Oh, man. We did it. We are. Oh, yeah. We did That's exactly what here's the deal because, like, I I generally will do those type of reaction interactions with God. I will do usually during my Bible reading or at night when I'm praying. And then like I've just done it like that Saturday night. And then I'll show up on Sunday morning and you're and and they're like do this. And I'm like, I mean, me and the Lord already talked about this. You want me to just phony one up for the I just took a bite of a donut and I Thirty seconds that, you know, because you said I had to, like, that feels like I'm like I'm treating God like I don't know him at all. You know, like I'm you're making me do this. Like, we talked last night. Like, we're we just had this conversation, you know. And like, I I know there's some parts of me that probably need to change in that area, but like, I honestly, it just feels extremely awkward. Like, you're trying to create like like, you're trying to create a false memory between me and my mom. You're like, you need to talk to your mom. And you really need to say something that really gets to her to her soul. And I'm like, I just talked to her yesterday. And now you're making me do this thing, like, totally you could tell it didn't come from me. Right? I mean, Isn't Go ahead. Well, mean, isn't about isn't it just about his body, like thinking about what he did, you know, thinking about him on the cross, thinking about his blood that was shed. I mean, as opposed to just I don't know. I I feel like I feel like there I I take more into it and I'm not saying that every I I not that I'm saying I'm sold into it every time that, you know, always a 100% there like me and God are like connected. But, you know, it's like, I feel like there is something about making sure and thinking through the fact that he actually did die. He actually did bleed.

And and maybe I'm maybe I'm just devotionalizing it too much. But I I feel like that's what I'm putting into it every time that I'm I'm talking about it or or taking it on Sunday morning is that it's actually it's it's it's a remembrance of specifically that act, that thing that happened. And I and I guess that's why I'm I've I like the fact that we do it every week because it it continues to remind me and points me back to the very center of what I believe to be true is is the fact that he'd actually died, that he actually rose from the grave. And that's what those things are just symbols for. I know. And I know it's just cracker, but I I I mean, I guess maybe that's why I I I guess I I pour into it more. And I'm not saying that if it, you know, we didn't it did it every once a month or whatever thing, wouldn't mean as much, but I guess it helps me to focus on that just a little bit more. Yeah. Even if it's not 100%, even if I don't, you know, actually just sit down and like weep over the fact that I cannot believe you did this for me. You know, maybe maybe I I just but it helps me to remember at least a little bit more. I focused a little bit more on the fact that one act that you did for me. But I I think that devotionalizing is about the only thing that you really can do with that just because of the time constraints and and the format and and what's going on is there isn't really room for for fully embracing like the the a lot of what he did other than just maybe capturing a glimpse of of Christ's sacrifice and and hope that that kinda cuts you to the heartstrings.

It's not something that lends itself to, hey. Here's a a big long teaching, which is strange because that's often how Jesus would approach meals is he would use them as teaching opportunities. He would he would take That's awesome. Well, I got you captivated with eats. Here's the deal. Yeah. And and he would and it wasn't just, hey, let me talk about something. He would actually upset social norms. He he might I can't really cite a scripture where he would, like, take a servant and and pull pull them up. But, I mean, you know, he would basically upset social norms

during the meal, and and Pharisees hated him for it because he he's basically rocking the system, but he's also demonstrating what his kingdom's like and what the kingdom values were like. And that was one of the indictments to the Corinthian church was that they were taking this Lord's Supper, which was supposed to be such a great forum for demonstrating revolutionary ideas of the kingdom. And they were just perpetuating the world system of, you know, rich people eat first, poor people get the leftovers. And Jesus was was taking his meal and he was just rocking it, and he would he would take something as awesome as Passover, which was just unbelievably cool in terms of what God did and and a testament to that. But he would just crank it up to 11 in terms of here, I've got this new covenant where I'm gonna enter in with you guys, and you're gonna be my bride, and I'm gonna be your husband. And and there's all these wedding allegory type things that were going on during that and saying,

you know, I'm gonna be taken away from you in the same way that a husband will have to depart, but I will come back to you in the same way that that the husband will finally be reunited with his bride. So just hold on and and know that I'm coming for you. I'm coming back for you. And he he just pours so much into this into this meal that was already special to begin with. And it it takes so much time to really digest. Yeah. I know. I just threw that in. What was going on there? There's

so much to that meal that there's no way two minute song interlude on on a piano and and going up and being in a pious and somber mood can fully appreciate just everything that Jesus poured into that. And that's okay. I I don't think a four hour meal and and people even talking about it and someone explaining, going through all of it, even that I don't think would do it justice. But that's okay. It gives us a picture of Jesus. It's something that reminds us. To

me, communion is literally anytime people who believe in in Jesus get together, share a meal, and glorify Christ. That's communion. I I care less about the specific elements themselves

and more about what it says about the community that that's being gathered in his name. But that's just me. Why did Jesus say to do the other things, I mean, what I mean, whenever you I mean, he he felt like it felt like he was pretty specific in those pieces. He was. I mean, he he identified the the semblance because they they so directly connect to the act that he was about to about to do. But we will we'll latch on to the elements, and then we'll forget the fact that he said, whenever you do this. So so literally, the breakfast meal that a church will offer right before that is a whenever believers are getting together and and eating a meal.

Is that communion? Well, we don't really treat it like a communion. We don't call it the Eucharist either, but but it would fulfill it. I mean, just the fact that we aren't using grape juice right then and we aren't using crackers. We are getting together. We're eating. He says whenever you get together and eat. So really, a believing family, whenever they sit down together, it should be a time that that they talk about Jesus. It should be a time that and and that's how Jewish society used meals is this is how we remember how we're Jewish. It is during mealtime,

dad would talk about what it's like to be Jewish or so we formalize an informal meal. Right. Right. I I I suppose, like, we should we should understand that to the extent that, like, we we don't use wine. Right? So, like, if we were caught up in the wine, like, we we got a cheap substitute and said, you know, what if the kid grabs a hold of it? Right? Or what if there's a drunkard in the place? And so, like, if we were really caught up in the formality of the elements, we're jacking it up. Like, we're we're we're ship we're buying things from a corporation. We buy the bread from some sort of mega mart that stamps out communion bread pieces. Okay. You know? And so

so if it if it was, I suppose if the elements were that important specifically, we're jacking it up anyway. Yeah. But we're we're already off the deep end. Fair enough. It would have been funny to hear Jesus call it in, though. It's like, hey. Can you set up a room for me? By the way, can you go down to the local mart? I need these chicklets. There was a lady at our church in in Missouri that she used to make the communion bread out of pie crust. Oh. And I gotta tell you, like the whole story about David going in to get the the show bread. Uh-huh. Man, it was really hard not to go to that freezer and grab handfuls of that stuff, because it was amazing.

Actually, I've had that too. We we do we've done twenty four seven prayer rooms around here. And like, I got real parched and something about that grape juice seemed alright. And and I did not drink it. And then I left the prayer room and I thought, what the heck, man? It is not holy grape juice. And I'm thirsty. I mean, I you don't wanna be caught chugging the communion juice simply because other people might want some, but, like, I thought, it it it it is it's not a it comes from the a right desire

to to not make holy things unholy, but it's it's juice, man. Mhmm. Like, you think is Jesus gonna look down and say, I died on a cross? You need to abstain from grape juice? But here's the thing. To to someone who you know, that is a reminder of what Jesus did, it does become holy. It it does become special because because their faith and their conscious, and they they look at it as, hey. I I'm revering this because I revere God.

And and, you know, there's so many stories in the Old Testament of someone doing something really crazy like defending a field of lentils. It's lentils, but to them, it was these are God's lentils, and I will defend this field because it is God's field. And by their faith, it's it's like by their faith, they consecrate the thing. And and That's true. They make it holy because of the fact that they have such a love for God that this is a special thing. And in doing so, they honor God. It's funny because you're because because like you the actions the outward actions of your life are almost the same way. Right? Like Mhmm. Like, I will defend this thing because it's God. Mhmm. That's that that's a very different way to look at your life and how you interact with those around you and how you interact with the world in general. Right? Like, is it that big of a deal that you didn't report blah blah blah in your taxes? You know, world's eyes probably not, but I will defend this because it's God's. Mhmm. And the answer is, yeah. I got that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Mike, you got one dear life from the path? Yeah. I got one. You wanna do one? Yeah. Let's do one. Okay. I wasn't directly ready. Hang on. Dear life from the path. My 60 year old son, Martin What? Sorry. Was it 60? 60. Six zero. 60 year old son. So they've gotta be, like, in their late seventies. Their age has not been given. Alright.

Okay. Maybe they're 80. Maybe they're 85. Could be 80. My 60 year old son Seventy Martin, is an accomplished litigation attorney. Mhmm. Handsome and opinionated. Oh. But kind and attentive to me. I am a widow. Unfortunately, he's a terrible driver and always has been. Sometimes I think he has a death wish the way he drives. He speeds, texts, phones, and looks away from the road to talk to passengers in the car. I can't understand how a man of his intelligence can be so reckless with his life and lives of others. He's a husband, father, and grandfather. I hate to drive anywhere with Martin even though he invites me to come along to various events. He doesn't take kindly to criticism. And when I say he's going too fast, he gets defensive. He just doesn't get it. He thinks he's invincible. I'm not the most tactful person, but I'm running out of excuses for why I don't want him to pick me up. I do drive, so I say, I'll meet you there, but it's getting old. How do I tell my son I no longer want him to drive me? How can I make him understand how serious his bad driving habits are? I'm not afraid of dying at my age, but I'd rather not die in an auto accident. Accident.

I is the question the root of the question is, how can I make him realize the consequences of his actions without actually giving him the consequences of his actions? Yeah. You don't just give him the consequences of his actions Yeah. And hope and and and hope that they're temporary. Yeah. You you make a decision. Either it's something that you're gonna stand your ground on and say, hey. Look. Your driving habits are so unsafe. I don't wanna be a part of it and just live with the consequences,

or else you make the decision the other way and say, alright. I'm apparently gonna ride with you because, you know, I'm willing to live with that. But pick one side and and live with the consequences. So you're you're really saying that there's no changing this man? He's No. There could There could be, but you're not gonna do it through through half measures. Right? Like, if you're people people have to react to actual consequences or reactions. So if so if,

if my wife said, look. I'm not gonna ride with you anymore, if you text and drive, and then she continues to do that. Okay? I mean, I should have more respect for my wife, but, like, there wasn't really a consequence there for me. But the time that I go to get into the car and I say, hey. We're gonna go to the store, and my wife gets in the other vehicle and drive separately to the store, I have to deal with that circumstance. And either I'm gonna really dig my head in the ground and say, you know, I'm gonna put up with this because I'm that stubborn, or I'm gonna say, this is ridiculous, and I'm the root of it. I will change my way. So, yeah, you just get like, give him real consequences to react to. Like, it doesn't need to be actually even a deal. Say, look. You're dangerous. I'm gonna drive separately all the time. I would love to ride with you, but it just simply seems not worth it given how dangerous you are.

Love, mom. Okay. Yeah. Secular says, stop making excuses with your son. Tell your son how much you love him, then tell him the truth. That his driving makes you afraid not only for your own safety, but also for him and his family. If he becomes defensive, let him rant. And when he runs out of breath, go. On go on to say that there is a reason that while you deeply appreciate his invitations, from now on, you will be arranging your own transportation. Don't be unpleasant about it, but don't be dissuaded. I was oddly specific in terms of how he would take it. When he goes on to rant? Yeah. I mean, that's a broad character with man. Yeah. Although he is taking to ranting according to the mother's letter. Yeah.

He's a lawyer. Yeah. They ran. Hey. Seriously, she paid it if this man was a I mean, a a crazy, insino man behind the wheel. You know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. Looking at the passenger while he's driving for for ten, fifteen seconds, texting, yelling at people, spilling coffee on himself. He's a caricature. Yeah. He is. He's a caricature of a real man. Like, he just does and and and he's never been in an auto accident. He doesn't have a rack full of speeding tickets. And so, obviously, he's undetectable by the law. Isn't that true? Most Dear Live From the past, whenever they're talking about a third party, it's always ends up being a caricature. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. You're right. There's no way this man would do this. It's not like, hey, my cousin comes over and he thinks he's small mess and doesn't use a coaster. It's like, when my cousin comes over, he throws his shoes at the wall and then takes his socks off and then he hangs from the ceiling fan and then he gets the jelly out and dumps it on the table. I'm like, what? Hangs from ceiling fan. Do your Life the Path. My son is Gorgamel. I don't know what to do with him. He wears a moo moo, but it's not really a moo moo. I he might be a monk. I'm not sure what you're doing. Alright. You're listening to Life in Path. Thanks for hanging out with us. Big thanks to the Eisenhower team for sponsoring this ragtag affair. They're good guys. Go to eisenhowerteam.com.

Thanks for hanging out with us. I don't even know what's going on next week. Go and check out website, livefromthepast.org. If you got complaints about the show, you wanna call KTA, they they like that stuff. If you have real positive things to say about the show, let me know. Info at livefromthepast.org. Me, thanks to Jared Roy for stopping by. Always good to see Jared. And you've been listening to Live From The Past. Be faithful in the memes. Thank God all the memes. Thanks for listening.