Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path.

You're listening too live from the Path. You're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Properties. Shoot. I here's the deals. I had thought of some kind of sweet opening that implied that we were part of some sort of international intrigue to go with Wayne Stewart's book. And I practiced it in the car, and then I've completely biffed it. I forgot it right when I walked in here. That's probably a good idea. Dang, man. But It's better than not. I was I kinda would want it to hear, Toby. That's true. Here's the thing. Everything sounds more epic when you're doing it in the car. Right. You're saying it, and it's real it sounds like you it's just like in the shower. I got 15 good ideas in the shower, which means I actually had one good idea. Because everything sounds like you you thought of something real sweet. I I tried to explain this to my wife that, hey, hey, hey, you've been in the shower a long time. I do my I do my best thinking in the shower. But here's the deal. Ten minutes after I get out of the shower, I've forgotten all of it. And then I think, maybe I actually don't do my best thinking in the shower. I'm a pretty accomplished rapper only when no one is listening. Like, I'm really good at rapping when I'm the only one rapping around. It's the same deal. It's in the car, in the shower, and then anyone else around me, it's bad. It's gone. Okay. I feel like we take a shower differently. I like cleaning the tub with my toe. Like, while I'm standing there, I'm like, you know, this this tub could use a shining. That is gross. And then I and then I'll start I'll scrub things with my toe for for a bit. Here's the deal. If you if

you have something in your shower that could be scrubbed off with your toe, it could very easily take a once every Here's problem. I think it's a legit stain that don't come out, but it shocks me every time I go in there. I'm like, hey, What's that? Like, it's a new stain. It's been there the whole time. And then I think I'm gonna take it out with my big toe. Hey. That does happen to me because I I'm I'm almost blind without glasses glasses on. And so once I take my glasses off and I'm in the shower, everything looks like it's a Spectre. Like, there's all kinds of creepy things in my in my tub crawling around at me. And if I put my glasses on, like, it's a legit, like, kid's toy or something that should be in there, but, like, it's creepy in there. I can't see what Do you say it like that? Like, a word, a specter. A few times.

K. Here's here's what you can I I I'm trying to keep an image from popping your mind, but you can't Thank you? You have to you can't overreact in the shower. It could lead to embarrassment. If you flee the shower because there's a specter in there, it could lead to embarrassment. So you have to be cool. Now here's the deal. I I feel like if you if if you're if you're in the shower and you feel like bad things are coming, I feel like it's time to just submit to the Lord and be like, come Lord Jesus. I ain't getting out of the show. Right.

Gonna have to murder me right here. I believe I'm I'm in the nude. It's gonna be how it's gonna be. Yeah. That's it. That's the end of things. Whatever, man. If you have a burglar, that's the best time to do it. Would never expect that. The best defense is a good naked offense. See, you just run out there. They're like, oh, man. I didn't expect this situation. I was like, I know you did. And then they run away. Yeah. They're like, all I wanted was a TV. It's like, was that a loofah? Is that your weapon? Get it. Get it. That's why most of your nonviolence, like hippie types, are always like, it could also be, like, nudists. Yeah. They're prepared to defend themselves, but in a way mechanism. If I was nefarious, I feel like I'd I'd have a hard time accosting a naked man. You know, I was like, you know what? I'm a I'm a go get the TV from the cloth guy. I can't deal with it right now.

Your stuff's nice, but not that nice. Alright. You've been okay. Now that we filtered out the illegitimate listeners, you've been listening to live from the past.

If you're hanging around, yeah, this is you this is on you from now on. We let out the cat, way out early. Here's what we got going on the show tonight. So Wayne Stewart is in. Now you've met Wayne. You've seen Wayne before. You'll recognize his face. And you will say that is the man that has been on to the Life The Path, singing and dancing, except for not the dancing. So primarily singing. And so he's been on a few times. Just awesome. Make sure you go to lifeinthepath.org.

Just do a search for Wayne Stewart. Lots of sweet clips from past time when Wayne has been in the studio. And so this is happening. I keep an eye on Wayne just to see what he's up to in his kitchen window and stuff. And, except for this time, it was on Facebook, and I see that he's there's, like, a he's written a book. And so I thought it was a joke. Right? Because, like, people are like, hey. I I write I wrote a book. And you're like, okay. You know, it's like a picture of you with your dog and stuff that you made on the snapfish.com, and now you're trying to get other people to buy it. It's a funny funny Except for I had, like, a sweet, like, realistic title and book cover. And I thought, holy cats. And then it occurred to me, Wayne Stewart comes off as a guy that could legitimately write a book. Right? So you look into it. Some people boovah, I'd just be like, yeah, definitely snap fish. Right. Wayne Stewart is like, a clever ruse or legit book. And it turns out it is indeed a legit book called When Toad and Fall.

And so, we got ahold of Wayne, and so he I I I want him to to give us a give us, like, a quick introduction to the book, and then I got a whole bunch of questions about why you're writing a book. But let's let's start with kind of the premise. What is the book about? Do you go to my your microphone's microphone's kinda way up there. It's floated away from you. Yeah. You bet. Okay. So the book is When Totems Fall. Hit us with like a like a synopsis.

Yeah. When Totems Fall is a is a geopolitical thriller that takes place in dual settings. One is sort of the Seattle Puget Sound area and then all the way across the world in China. I don't I'm sorry. Me and Boover are out already on word geopolitical.

What does that mean? So there are nations

are prime actors in this storyline. Okay. On. And people who are involved both sort of in the military side of things as well as the political side of things. Basically, the action line is that the Chinese have developed technology that allows them to lock up American nuclear forces. And so then that opens the door for them to

to expand their reach onto the West Coast Of The United States, and their first test case is the Puget Sound area of Seattle. They decide that that's the best place to start, and so they take over. Hey, man. So here's the thing is I started reading this book. I'm about halfway through which means Wayne cannot cannot say too much about it. Otherwise, it will give the back half away. But there's there's a point in the book where, like, you're kinda getting introduced to these characters. You're like, okay. Alright. These guys are kind of interesting and then all of a sudden, like, stuff just stuff just starts happening and you're like, I didn't I didn't see that coming and here's the deal, like, modern reader has a pretty open mind as to what wild things countries may do to another or terrorism

type of activity might occur. There's a plane crash, you're like, okay. Yeah. No. I I I get kinda what was happening here. And then then it just it just starts skewing into like a I'm trying to not use page turner because that's what everybody says, but really it's like, what the heck? How do you deal with the situation which China goes, hey, we're just we're gonna take over part of your country and there's just not much you could do about it. Anyway, it's it's it's it's a grabber. It's a grabber. So deep Page flipper. It is. It isn't. Oh, man. Hey. Are you are you mocking me? No. Of course not. I thought of three better words in the shower before I got here. So I maybe maybe if you'd be willing to kinda share do you have do have it at the ready like Yeah. Parts of the book. So Wayne's gonna share this is the

this is the plane scene. Yeah. Yeah. A little setup for the characters here is that one of the main characters is 37 year old guy who's kind of a jaded vet who served in multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. So we try and pull from a little recent history militarily there. He's a guy who got into the military because of basically something he really messed up in college.

He it it wasn't that he wanted to be in the military. It was sort of to keep himself out of trouble. He has a special gift in the sense that he can his mind goes into overdrive and he can sort of take all of the different scenarios in play in any situation and see all of the outcomes. He just can't order any of the outcomes, but he can see everything that's going to possibly happen.

So that gift came in handy in the military. So he spent some time as a war vet, but gets pretty jaded because of what he's seen and also some backstory that you get a little bit later in the in the book. So he's one of the main characters and we'll pick up with him after one of the first things that the Chinese do to convince America that they really mean what they mean is they repurpose the communication

structure for an airliner that's heading from Vancouver BC to Seattle Washington and crash it right in the middle of the city at Pike Place Market which is a pretty iconic place for folks from Seattle. Is that the the the the most likely Seattle area for movies and stuff like where the guys throwing a fish That's a fish throwing place. Yeah. Okay. Yep. You bet. Yeah. So pretty iconic. So he's he's basically woken up because he got knocked conscious by the blast. He was a few blocks away at the time. He's tried to figure out what to do and we start here.

Zeb looked on the carnage in dismay. His name is Zeb Dalton by the way. An initial wave of first responders began appearing on scene navigating the formidable disorganized barriers of aluminum, steel, and flame in search of casualties. The disdainful work of triage choosing who would live and who would not became their primary and sordid task. By day's end, these selfless rescuers would join the grieving themselves, a number of their brethren lost in the paddle against injury and death. Utterly powerless.

Dalton hated this feeling with every single fiber of his being. Though personally spared the primary concussion of the plane's entrance, the horror of what unfolded before him nod at him, would not relent. Breathe. Just breathe. Zebnew Pike Place was a multi level structure built into a steep hillside above the waterfront district. A space that could be occupied at times by by upwards of 5,000 people.

Below street level, beyond the public face of buskers, artisans, and entrepreneurs, another layer of life existed though, a small community of 500 full time residents, many low income and elderly. And now these lower level passages had transfigured into a massive awkwardly meandering wounded. The primal urge to surface led them upward through flame engulfed passageways from there out into the open turmoil of the Stewart Street entrance. All of it resembled a scene from a bad zombie movie.

Clear my head. Help someone. Come on, Zeb. Do something. Please. Please. Someone. She's still in there. He saw her upright but weakened leaning against what remained of the green metal framework of the market portico. She reached out toward the undead crowd with her bloodied right arm. No one responded. Please, please.

Her words though more emboldened with every syllable became choked off by the damaging effect of smoke on her vocal cords. Zeb moved in. Who? Where? My friend Sasha. She's old. I I could not free her. She's still alive. I heard her cry. The young woman's voice and courage were returning. Beneath matted hair, drywall dust, and grease mixed with blood stains on clothing, it was still clear that she was beautiful and strong. Her accent, Balkan, Eastern European,

possibly Russian or Czech. Zeb understood. This woman was heading back into the inferno with or without his help. The compelling picture of selflessness unnecessary for him to act was nonetheless inspiring.

He would respond. He always did. As in moments like this, his middle name seemed an inescapable barometer of his character, Mordecai. In the biblical story of the book of Esther, Mordecai is not obviously heroic. Instead, he appears to be standing by as his people exiled into ancient Persia faced the unthinkable possibility of complete genocide. For those who look deeper into the text though, something more surfaces. A man at work under the glaring eye of evil all around him. A man sizing up the times and circumstances of his fate and acting with courage while also prodding others into bravery.

Zebulon Mordecai Dalton. This moniker had given him grief more than once on the playgrounds of his youth as it was unusual for a middle class Baptist American set of parents to choose a singularly Jewish name for one of their children. Yet when it came down to it, in choosing his name, his mom and dad knew something about him. Whether a product of parental instinct or divine insight, Dalton himself would uncover its aptness only in time and through trial. So it was no surprise then that Zeb took those first steps against and into the rushing tide of the injured and dying.

His outlook on life had swerved hard toward the cynical and sarcastic as of late. This much was true. Yet it was also true that too much soldier remained in him to turn his back on the horrors unfolding in his city today. The first order of business was this woman's stranded friend. If Sasha had survived, Dalton would do his best to get her to safety. At the very least, he would bring her corpse out for a proper burial. Everyone everyone else was leaving the market complex as Zeb headed in.

Alright. Man, that really does paint quite the scene. It does. It does. And, like, I I I will I will say this, like, from from wearing out, one of the one of one of Wayne's like really strong gifts is is being able to kind of lay things out in a very universal way. Like it's it's it's not a it's not you're not getting a flat description. You're you're getting a lot of the the emotion. You're getting a lot of like

kind of the nuance of the scene that surrounds it. And so that's true with the characters, it's true with the scene, it's it's even true for like the the scenarios that are kind of playing around it. So like Wayne certainly has a has a gift for that if I can embarrass you in a room. So and I would say that that the that the the things that kinda grab you about that scene just continue to kind of explode as it as it goes through the book. Now like I said, I'm only about halfway through. It could it could careen off the edge at the end. I don't I'm not far enough.

But so far yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I it's it's it's a high recommendation for me so far. And the book is When Totems Fall. It's by Wayne Stewart. Now Wayne, if people are interested in picking up this book, where can they get it and when? Yeah. The there's a a preorder right now for both Kindle and paperback, and you can preorder the Kindle at Amazon. So you just go to Amazon and you search for when totems fall, and you'll see the preorder page that's there ready to go. And then that drops on the '8 the twenty eighth. Mhmm. So next

Monday. Next Monday. Yeah. Is when the Kindle's available. And then two days later on the thirtieth is when the paperback's available. But you can also preorder that. You just have to go to the which is when totems fall at wordpress.com. Okay. Dotwordpress.com.

Okay. Sweet. So is this your your first foray into into the story writing, like fiction writing? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I did a non fiction book, a worship book. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about that. Yeah. A year ago. Mhmm. But this was the first first jump into fiction. So how long is how long is this particular story been been in your head? Just within that year or you've been taking on it for for longer than that? It's been a three year process. Yeah. It started off as a really weird short story Mhmm. That it was kind of like half rainy day board activity and part personal dare. So like I've read a lot of, you know, Clive Kussler

and a lot of the major sort of action guys. Yeah. Probably from my mid twenties forward, I started reading some of those books, Clancy, and loved just sort of the big story, you know, that was laid out in those and characters that built over multiple multiple books. So about three years ago, I was sitting around and I thought, yeah, I can do that, which was totally foolish. You know? So I start into it and realized, you know, there there are real reasons why people do this for a living Yeah. And give themselves to the craft and develop it over years and years. And

so yeah. But it's been a it's been a fun process, but it's taken a lot of time and a lot of commitment to it. But I knew I wanted to finish this story at least. Yeah. And felt like we needed to wrap it up here in the in the in the near term. So So what are some of the things that surprised you about the process or things maybe that you weren't expecting? Yeah. I was I was not ready for the depth of editing that needed to be done. Like you can my experience has been anyways that you can sort of you can devise some characters that you like. You can devise a general outline of a story line and you can sort of get it all in flow. But in order for it to actually read without distraction, that's where I think the real craft comes in. So folks that you do normally read and you go, wow, I really love that story. You weren't pulled out of it in any way. Right? Right. It's because they took the extra time to just make sure that everything worked right. You know, the pacing and all that kind of stuff. So I'm very much on the front end of exploring this kind of thing. But it's been it's been a good sharpening exercise in a lot of different ways, know, thinking, writing, all those kind of things. So I'm gonna reel my potential inability to read things right. So at the front covers got a picture of like what looks to me is like the space needle with the with the Chinese stars next to it. Is that right? Yep. I see. I I must have looked at that 10 times and it did not occur to me until about a quarter way through the book and then it kinda hit me and I felt very smart at the I

felt very smart. Be some kind of prize or something for that. You know, there are a few people who are like, oh, I get it. Yeah. So yeah. It's a stylized Chinese flag emblem on the space needle. Now, so did you did you did you do that or did you have to did find you someone to do the art for it or Yeah. So that's the other part of the process here is that normally people when they do independent publishing,

you know, without a publisher who's doing all of this work for them. Yep. They hire editors. They hire people to do the artwork, all those things. It's really had to come down to me. So so I've been doing everything so far. So any of the I guess there's good and bad in that. Right? If it's decent, then I guess maybe I worked at it and it turned out okay. If it's not, then it's probably my fault. So. Okay. Well, I think that's fair. Yeah. Do you get a do you have

did anything about your character surprise you to win or or you the type of guy where, like, you you know exactly what they're gonna do as they go? No. I didn't actually. Yeah. And there's two so the dual scenes that happen in in Seattle and in America generally and then in China, the the chapters have you as you've seen sort of go back and forth and then in the middle of chapter sometimes you'll switch scenes too so that you get an idea of these two story lines that are happening in parallel. Because what happens is so there's a young businessman

who Chinese businessman whose company gets the government contracts in China to develop this technology. He's very nervous about what it could be used for once he realizes how potent it is. So he agonizes over handing this over finally to the government, but he does it. And

immediately regrets it because he sees what they've done with it. One of the surprises is is that the Chinese guy is actually the believer in the story. And so he is coming from trying to figure out how to live out a life of faith as a businessman in China and feels like he's really really traded away some of his soul in this for the the government contracts and the money and all that kind of stuff. So he immediately starts trying to reverse it, those the deeds of his government

at the same time as the jaded American vet is trying to work on the American side of things. So it's really hopefully interesting that those two characters try and carry sort of the moral sense of of outrage about this forward, but in very different ways. Yeah. So Yeah. I feel like you could easily identify with both of those dudes actually. You know, it's like it's in in some capacity either one of them have something to offer you. So that's that's cool.

And oh, what's oh, shoot. There was something about that that I was gonna say. What was it? Doggone it, Mike. Sorry. Let me hop in the shower. Nope. Gone completely. Gone completely. So tell me, was there

was there anything about the stories you were writing it that like, were all these things familiar to you and you're kinda writing for what you know or they're they're That's a good question. That you had to, like, really investigate because you didn't have the knowledge to be able write to it on a I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, have you been to China? Like, how do you know what it feels like to be a Chinese businessman? I was thinking that the whole time. You just took on the role of the hype man for Ben's question. Well, that's a good question. I was excited about that. I was thinking it myself. You're the guy that that holds the belt as I walk out. Okay. Deal. Okay.

Yeah. So I grew up in Seattle. Lived there prior to thirteen, fourteen years ago. So pretty much my whole life grew up there. So all of the scenes from Seattle are things that are very sort of well worn places for me and sort of the feel of the Pacific Northwest in general, you know, which is a very different sort of part of the country. And so those things

that felt pretty pretty easy to step into. The other side of it, I had no idea. And and I honestly can't tell you how the dual sort of framework came out. I just started writing a little bit and I thought, well, what if this happened? Right? You know? Yeah. And and then kind of explored it from there. But I will tell you that my search history in my browser

has all kinds of things that I may be on a watch list for. Like, you know It's a different possibility. Chinese military technology, you know, the the development of their of their missile systems and capabilities and all those kind of things. So but it was fun to kind of, you know, poke away at that a little bit. But one of the best sort of people I had come into the picture really late in the last, like, month and a half or so is a good buddy of mine who's a retired marine. Mhmm. And I said, man, if you could just read this for me and just tell me how far I'm off because there's a ton of military characters and interaction and all kinds of things that go on in this book, and I've never served. Right. I have a great amount of respect, you know, for folks who have. And so he said, yeah. I'll read it. So he comes back and he's like, yeah. It it shows that you've never been in the military. But that started a process of him saying, hey. What if you did this? Hey. What if you did this? What if you did this? Nice. And at the end, he was like, yeah. That felt honoring. So so I hope it was. Okay. Cool. And I hope it comes off that way. Yeah. Yeah. There there are a few points where you were especially writing about the the Chinese military technology. And of course, I have a bit of a fourth wall problem because I'm like, Wayne Stewart's genius.

He knows all about the Chinese military. Then I then I pictured you googling stuff about the Chinese military. Exactly. And I didn't know I don't know, like, how closely those two pictures came together. Yeah. It would it would be pretty funny if someone wrote in and be like, it's pretty obvious you've never been a Chinese man. Wayne Stewart. How dare you, sir. Yeah.

So tell me about the tell me about the kind of the moment when you and I I I recognize there's like an editing process here, but like, was there anything big about kind of the last the last sentence, like, as you're kinda tying up this thing? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Actually.

And I hope it lands well for people. Right? I mean, that's the point is you're trying to create you're trying to create a connection with folks as they read this so they actually care about the people that are in the story. Right? You know? So hopefully, got there. And I didn't know how to end the very last piece for a month or two. I just sort of said it. And I had a couple of sort sketch ideas about it. And I literally sat up in bed

one night and went, I got it. And I went out to the living room at, like, 2AM, and I just pecked it out and got it done. And when I got it done, I went, I I think that's it. And it got changed a little bit, you know, for editing, but but the the basic gist of it landed, I think, where where it should. So I'm I'm pretty happy with where it goes. Did you had someone else edit it or did you do your own editing? Yeah. So I I my wife is a great proofreader. Uh-huh. So she's doing that side of things, but there's a whole other level of editing that's sort of structural and copy editing. Yep. And that's sort of do the ideas make sense? Does the timeline make sense? Are there any conflicts and gaps, you know, that are obvious that again pull people out of the story so they don't just keep moving along? That has taken a lot of time. And actually, I just

I just sort of had a an OCD moment on Saturday where I went, man, does the timeline actually still make sense? And I wrote out just a little a little thirty day calendar, and I just sort of sketched some stuff out on it and went because especially because there's dual dual time frames and there's fifteen hours of difference between Seattle and Beijing. Yeah. And so some of those things you go, well, maybe some people won't care about this, but maybe somebody will. Somebody will. Yeah. They don't sell tuna that time of night in Beijing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should have known better. Exactly. Actually, know, the truth is is it's the right type of people, the people that really dig on what you're doing that care about that kind of thing. Yeah. And and it does honor them as as readers to pay close attention to things they care. You're glorifying these guys. They've ruined the internet. No. You know I'm saying? You can't barely put anything out where some Nerdinheimer come out nowhere and they're like, well, that doesn't seem right. His cell phone battery should be dead. Okay, dude. You know, it's it's an entertainment deal, you know, calm down.

Yeah. I I hear what you're saying, but like the the it's those same type of people who like care about the things you cared about as you were creating art. Who like they might casually and there's the common populace will casually enjoy some things and then there's some guys who are like checking every frame. Basically, all your star star wars star track Don't judge me. I saw you look at me right in the face when you said Star Wars. I I

understand. I understand. I'm just saying it's like like a lot of times, although they can be your greatest critique factory, also are are the type of folks that really dig on what you do. That's true. So you you don't even use the Internet to its fullest extent. I've acquiesced to what you've said. I still believe in what I said before. Okay. Alright. Mike, I cut you off. Did you have another question? I had one and then we got on the Nerdheimers and then I can't remember what it was. Oh, now I remember what it was. So when you were talking about the editing process, it seems to me like it would be really hard to read it fresh. You know, like like it would like you just wrote it and like I I as soon as I write something, I'm like, that's gold. That's gold. You know what saying? And then I go back and read it again, I'm like, yeah, still gold, you know. And so it'd be really hard for me to to read something I've put together and and not be trying to like secretly, you know, get boost my own confidence but like, yeah, I still think that's pretty good. You know, so like, is there something that you have to do to to help read it fresh again?

Yeah. I think you you Well, two things that helped for me for sure is there were a couple of actual online tools that take from a fiction writer's perspective

whatever you throw at it and just comes back to you with a brutal red pen. Mhmm. And and it it's it's grammar, it's flow, it's pace, it's the use of terms, the overuse of terms, it's cliche, it's all this stuff. And I found some really great ones that people were actually using and highly recommended. So I plugged into a couple of those and I literally spent like six weeks going through all of the chapters again at that point and that was brutal but I think it turned out really really good. And then the second thing is I've had two different phases of beta readers for this. So I had an early manuscript,

maybe even a year ago, that I had an initial group of a couple three people and I just said, would you just read this thing and just be honest with me. Right? And they were people I knew they they would give me good feedback. And then that moved forward into a last group of three or four that just finished up in the last couple of weeks. And they were super, super helpful. I mean, there are people who like this genre, don't like this genre, you know, but good readers and people who are thoughtful and people who give give me good feedback. So Yeah. It's been a good mechanism. It seems to me like it

And maybe a process that I would not be willing to subject myself to. Right? But like the process of refinement for a story like that or how you write or the style that you write in or what you thought was yeah, that was perfectly made sense and the guy says it doesn't make sense. And I'm like, yeah, it does, you know. Well, you know, what do you mean? Does it make sense to you? You know, like and like and offering your story up and your and your your writing style up for refinement, it seems like like you have the right heart for the for the best product. Right? And opposed to just putting out, you know, what the story that you thought was gold and say go. And so that that is pretty and that's I mean, that's true with just about everything. Right? Like if you're open for refinement, you'll get it. And sometimes harsher than you wanted or easier than you wanted, but it definitely happens. And so that's sounds pretty cool. Sounds like a tough process. Yeah. I I think if you want it to be better Yeah. Yeah. You've gotta get some input. Right? And then you gotta figure out what to do with the input. And if you get multiple people or sources saying the same thing, it's probably something

to take note of, you know. And I think too, you know, because I've never fashioned myself as a fiction writer Yeah. This was sort of more exploration than anything else. I was like honestly, even when I got that that manuscript done about a year ago and offered it to folks, I had no idea whether it was decent or whether anybody would wanna read Right. You know? So I kinda was open handed with it at that point and yeah. It's it's worked out pretty good. Is there any any characters that you had to lose that you wish you like you didn't want to but you had to? That I had to cut out? Yeah.

No. Actually, I haven't You're able to hang on to everybody? I was able to hang on to everybody. Yeah. Yeah. It's a because it's a big story line, it it requires a lot of players. Right? A few a handful of major players. Right. And then a bunch of folks who are just kind of around the edges, but hopefully add to the the story line. That's true. The platform of the story, the nature of the story just give you a lot of room to play around because like it's it basically has an impact to the whole world whichever way, whichever lens you kinda wanna focus in on and say like this is how this guy is dealing with it. This is what it looks like in the upper echelons of government. This is what it looks like for your quasi frontline uniforms, you know, army sniper

or something, you know, like Yeah. You you just get kind of you can kinda zero in on how that impacts part of the underground Christian contingent in in China. Like, it's just a very cool kind of push in, bring back out, push in. It lets you kind of explore a wide range of the world without feeling too lost in a in a situation like that. So I I wanna say congratulations, Wayne. Like I said, about halfway through and it's it's really a compelling read.

And so I would encourage everyone to go check it out. Again, you go to wintoadmansfall.wordpress.com and you can pre order the the paperback or I did. I pre ordered on Amazon. Now, technically, I say I'm halfway through because Wayne snuck me a copy but like I still pre ordered on Amazon as well. And so it's it's a dead easy process. It's just like ordering anything off Amazon and then it'll just deliver it to your Kindle or whatever it is you use and you can do it there. But once again, big congratulations, Wayne. It's a that's a heck of an accomplishment and and not just that you finished something, but you finished something that's an excellent read.

Congratulations. Appreciate it. Excited for for Wayne. Make sure you go make sure you go pick that up. And here's here's the deal. We've talked about this with bands that have come in too. It's it's true with with artists and things. But part of the great thing about artists, the conversation is being able to engage in some way or other. Right? So like, as you as you read the book, like react to it. Right? Like, it's okay to not like something the characters did. Like, it's at least you're engaging in the story. I wish this guy would have done this or I loved it. I love the heart of this person or I love this or I love that or I hate this. Like, it's all the cool part of kind of an artistic process and so I would recommend kind of engaging in that and and hit Wayne with some with some thoughts and some feedback on that. You can hook hook up with it on Facebook

and I I think there's a place that you can do it on the I thought I saw on the website too or am I wrong about that? Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So you can do that stuff. So like, I mean, just engage in in art broadly, but this is this is a cool thing especially kind of if you're in the area to be able to engage kind of with with Wayne and and what he's put together. I think it's certainly worth checking out. Thanks so much. Okay. Mike, so you were talking to me about I don't know. It was an article that you read earlier this week? Yeah. Yeah. So and and it was it was I saw it come across the Facebook or whatever and I and I read it and I was I was kinda excited about it at first and then I thought about it for a second and I'm like, man, don't know what I think. And so that's standard me fairs. I have a I have a instant reaction to something and then I step back a couple feet and I go, man, I I mean, I have a I have a history of being an idiot. And so I have to step back and see if I was thinking about it correctly. And so

I'll read you the story real quick. It was in the local Des Moines register here, but it was there was an act of vandalism against a bar downtown. It says, it's it's only been a few days since the blazing saddle was vandalized leaving the gay bar with a shattered window, the result of a man throwing rocks. However, in the time it's taken to board up the glass and make arrangements to replace the second broken window in recent weeks, the LGBT friendly bar in the East Village has been tremendous scenes tremendous support from the community. A Christian youth group from the Two Rivers Church brought in a donation of a $160, flowers and cards to show its support. Brian Smith, a blazing saddle employee, said the small act of kindness meant a lot, but the the money needed to go somewhere else. We thanked them profusely, but said, we're actually going to put this in Orlando fund. Okay? Smith said. The bar has been gathering donations to send to the injured victims and families of the 49 people killed in Orlando,

at the massacre. When asked for comment about its donation, Two Rivers told the Des Moines Register, we prefer to let our actions of love speak for us. Like the out of the blue gestures that the bar has been receiving from strangers in the Des Moines community. So here's here's the thing that hit me. Right? Like, there's there's something right off the bat I really enjoyed. It's like, was people actually doing

something loving in general. Right? In in a toward a group of people that the church has just has has reacted very poorly to and not done a good job in that area. And so, like, I read it right off the bat and I'm like, you know what? Yeah. Okay. I'm I can get on board with this. This is I mean, they're they're they're they're showing love to people that don't normally get to feel love from the Christian community and I thought, yes. And then I step back for a second and I thought, are you

this is gonna sound terrible because this is what I'm struggling with. Right? But like, are you helping someone put their actual pole back back up? You know what I'm saying? Like, something happened and you didn't want it to happen nor did you wish bad things to happen. But like the thing that is that is actually driving them away from a a relationship with God, you're helping to rebuild. And then I now now I'm confused again. And then I couldn't decide where I actually thought. Like, still feel like I'm solidly in the first camp, or like you showed love and that was the way to go. And I I I really I I I I think that's where I'm at. But then I thought, am I am I rebuilding

the Ba'al Temple? You know, someone, little piece of window fell out of the Baal Temple and I'm like, here, I'll help you repair it. I don't know. Help me. Help me. I feel like there's a very shallow part of me that doesn't know quite what to what to think here, although I sit firmly in the love love is the rule. Help him, booba. What what what's going on now? What's going on in your mind? So I actually, as you're reading that, ran through both in the exact same way that you ran through. Because immediately, I'm just like, heck yeah, man. You know, that that's people that claim Christ loving on people. And and that's an incredible thing, and that's an awesome deal that that I think that we fail at way too often.

We do a really good job of calling people out for something they're doing wrong, but then we have no recourse of, hey, let's let's talk about how Jesus loves you, and then and then bring you under that before we talked about the rules of his kingdom. But then I'm also in the second camp of yeah. There's not a lot of, like, Christ loving stuff that happens in that place.

Like and I'm not trying to to condemn anybody for what they're doing, but, like, I know what happens in that bar. Like, I'm not I'm not oblivious to the fact that that that is a certain type of bar where certain types of things happen. Let let me let me just let me simplify the operation. It's not let's let's call it not Blazing Saddles. It's just, it's the whole avenue tab. Okay. Now Okay. Actually, I still feel the exact same way. Me too. Yeah. I'm still confused. Yep. I'm not saying that I'd like but here here's actually what I think is That's what I was hoping for. I I think that it just puts it on a field If if your bar just got lit on fire, regardless of what kind of bar it is, you know, I'm probably not gonna go to your to your rescue to help build your bar back up. Yeah. But why not though? I'm I'm fine with I'm fine with helping the people, but I don't think that that. I mean, here's the thing. I guess I'm just as confused as you are. Let's say there's a let's say there's a window out of the whole Av tap. The whole Av tap is just a regular old drink till the late night bar. It's just a regular bar. Right? Someone throws a rock at it, breaks the window.

I am not so foolish to think that it's gonna affect business either way. The man that wants to get in there and not know Jesus will go in there regardless whether the window is up and rocking or not. It's not like the alcoholic dude's gonna be like, well, can't go there anymore. You see the window? Like, that's I don't drink with the breeze. Yeah. That's right. The air conditioning is not nearly as effective any longer. I cannot enjoy my whiskey sour here any longer. No longer. So here's the thing. Is is is I think what I actually came to is it's a it's kind of a stupid thought process of mine. Like, makes any difference at all whether the windows are running. The the the the showing love to people is like I mean, I've I've been on this for a while, but like, the rules of the kingdom are are are like a big club to the head unless you know the king. Right. Right? And so, like, our job is to love people like Christ would have loved people. And then when they get to know Jesus, Jesus will introduce them the rules of the kingdom, how he does it. He does that on his own. He he he puts people around for for shepherding and helping. But in general, when when I've ever had a conversation with somebody, when I personally came to know Christ, it's not like someone said, these are all the things wrong with your life. You need to change them so you can know Jesus. It was always I started to get to know Jesus and I'm like, I feel like you're after that Jesus.

Okay. Well, let's talk about it then. I'll find some people to help me and get some fences set up and and and and I because I wanna be in your kingdom because I feel loved by you. I know the king. My behavior starts to change because I wanna be in the kingdom. Right? And so, any rule based condemnation is is stupid. And frankly, I just don't think that's Jesus at all. Right. But I I think that I put a lot of it's not that the Asherah pole thing isn't is not a fair it's not a fair

comparison. Comparison. You You know know what what I'm I'm saying? Saying? And so I I read it and I thought if if I struggle with this for the first ten minutes, there has to be other people that would ask themselves the same question. Yeah. And where I think that I I can work past it and go I actually think that they did the right thing, and that takes a lot of balls to to do that. You know I'm saying? As especially in the Christian community where half your community is gonna go Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not a great idea. We we can't go near those people. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so they I you know, they actually did a a a pretty cool thing, but I thought I I shouldn't be struggling with this. That's actually what bothered me is the fact that I looked at it and I couldn't decide what I actually thought. What I will say is I'm not so much worried I think we're kinda in the same camp again. I'm not so much worried about my reaction from the second perspective of, you know, are we really rebuilding the right place? I'm still kinda riding the fact that I'm excited that that people who love Christ showed it. Yeah. I'm I'm very excited about that. They

from a from a societal perspective, we are we are not good at at doing that part, and I think they regardless if if it was something just showing up and giving them money or, you know, if they showed up with a broom and said, can I help you sweep up? Like, whatever that was, if they showed up trying to have personal interaction with people that some Christians would just go, oh, I can't be seen with those those people. I can't be seen in that area. If we showed up from the perspective of, I hate, we're gonna love on you. Christ calls us to love you, we're we're gonna do exactly that. I think that that's no matter what the outcome was, a huge step in the right direction for some people, and especially for a youth group. Like, I'm I'm happy that that the youth group was able to give a better reaction than, you know, youth pastor walking up and saying, hey. Let's talk about why they're living in sin. Yeah. And let's talk about why what they do is a sin, rather than, you know, what they did, which was, hey. Let's see if we can help them out because Jesus loves them. How can we love them too? Yeah. I mean, I I think if there's if there's a reason to have,

I'm not gonna use the phrase conflicted, but right but there's a reason to run this through. It's because the truth is that you and I would believe that, the calls to righteousness within the kingdom are not caveats of the kingdom, they are grace in the kingdom. Right? Correct. Like that that that call to righteousness is just as much grace as the love from the father that extends, and that otherwise from Jesus who defines the kingdom. And so the truth is is that like, I don't want to,

what what what if if I'm hearing what you're saying, what you're trying to be careful not to do is like not to make it sound like those calls to righteousness aren't graced by just saying, we do we do this in a certain way, but, basically, we do we also know that encouraging something that is otherwise not part of that call to righteous is is a bit of a denial of the same grace that otherwise people would define as the fact that you showed up and and demonstrated it in a way that they felt somebody felt loved.

Right? Yeah. Well, yeah. And and to see who once again, touched on it. Right? But but like, it'd be just the same as like I know there's I have a couple friends of mine. Like, they're they're straight up alcoholics. It's what they are. That's what they're buyer didn't. Right? They feel loved when you bring booze over to their house. That's how they feel loved. When you don't do that, then then they say, why aren't you loving on me? Why don't you come hang on my place anymore? Why don't we have good times anymore? And they feel like they're you're you're withholding your love, you know. And when you're like, hey, man. It's best for me not to give this to you. It's in your best interest that you don't have this thing. And and like some of that is is is where that's coming from. And and like I said, the thing that actually took hold of me more was

I I know better than my than my first thought. I know better than that. Right? But but it was still my first thought. It's still the first thing that came to me and I thought, what has happened to me? I know I mean, it's always been me. It's nothing has changed. But, like, I know the grace and love of Jesus Christ and I know what what really unconditional raw love looks like. And still my first thought is, I think they might be building Asheropods. I don't know if we should fix the wood. I'm like, I know better than Right? So why is this sticking with me so much? So maybe I wonder if let me present you two different scenarios and see which one snips right. Like, someone said, hey, look, would you buy a window for the opportunity to

demonstrate to someone who Jesus is for you? Yes. Okay. Would you buy a strip or pole and do the same thing? No. Okay. So it matters what you buy? Yeah. It does matter. Does it? It matters what you buy. Right? You know, it's like there's something that this seems like a very legalistic distinction that I'm trying not to make, but I I I I think what I'm saying is that there's a level of contribution here where, like, I I I care about cause of righteousness only because it's it's still a grace within the kingdom.

I I think those are still for our good. And so if, like, I I could I could replace 15 windows a year for the next sixty years and short of recognizing the love of the king, you know. Yeah. They felt loved in in in the way that they felt loved, but, you know, they're still in the same spot. But the truth, I would completely agree though, is that like, those calls to righteousness frankly only matter if they actually know the king. Otherwise,

I don't know why I trust your, moral authority over my own. Like, when people we talked about this recently. Right? Like, when people say, hey, I gotta be true to myself. Like, that's not a surprise. In fact, they're telling the truth. That's completely honest reaction because who else would I would I be true to? Short of I don't trust you and I don't believe in a in an all encompassing God, why would I trust anybody else's call to be true to that? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Pretty much all I got. Just just me. And so the truth is what we try to do is try to bring some level of moral authority in coming from a God that they don't trust and from a Jesus they don't follow. Of course, I mean, I would buff up against that if someone said, Zeus says you have to do the following. And I would say, I don't know Zeus. I don't have any reason to stop doing Everything

I've heard about him, he's a shi c fellow. Yeah. And so so that that's the thing. It's like, if if it frankly doesn't do you any good to say, Jesus says to do x y and z if they don't know Jesus as they know Jesus. And frankly, if if it's gonna cost me a window to help people know Jesus, awesome. Right. I think that's fine. If it's gonna cost me a stripper pole, I yeah. That's that's that's not ends justifying the means. Right? Like we say we'd be faithful in the means. God will take care of the ends. That's provoking the means. But but yeah. Yeah. I mean so here's if let me say this is like, I I get the thought. Right? Sure. It's because I care I care about the grace that comes through the calls to righteousness, but it makes sense in my parameter. When he's when when when I look at some of this stuff, like Matthew five seven stuff that Jesus calls me to,

those are grace for me. It helps it helps me put up the right fences and say, look, man, I want I want joy and things that glorify the king and I know it comes from these two things, so I want in on them. I want other people to be in on those two things and so maybe I lead with that. I forget that they don't know the Jesus through whom which those things come and without that connection, they rightfully dismiss them like I would from Zeus. True. And so but the thought process is exists if I can if I can give you the two of you guys a little bit of credit because I would have thought that I've gone to the same thought process. It's because I care about the righteousness because it brings me joy and glory to the father. Right. Yeah. And so, like, I get it. I it's not I don't think it's wrong to to run through the thought process. It's just if you look at it from from where other folks may be coming from, if our first reaction is to take out the take out the calls to righteousness, but it's from an authority that they don't trust or love, I I'm with them. Like, I get I I understand where that's coming from. And frankly,

a lot of a lot of Christianity is is unfair, but it I think we it's the right heart. It's just a wrong it's a little wrong process. We think these things are good for us. They will be good for others, but short of knowing the king, that's how I know they're good. That's where the definition of that they are good comes from, is from, the king and the kingdom through which they serve. And so if you don't have that, you're not gonna see it as good. And I get I get it. You know, I I think like, you see that kind of stuff happen and and and it's this is obviously not a discussion on what they did or didn't do. Like, I I honestly I they, you know, they seem like great folks to me. I don't have any judgment on any that.

But, like, I have I have a real I don't know. I'd say it's a a ting in me when I see Christians representing themselves in, like, a when they boil Christianity down to, like, a slogan, like a slogan type of love, you know, I'm like, please don't do that. The the real love is awesome. You know? The Jesus bumper sticker. It's just awesome. And you're like, you're you're you're you're boiling it down to see you saw I did this thing or whatever. And and like I said, this is not about them. They did not say that. They're like, you know, don't have an interview to give. We're gonna let our love show. And and like, the only thing I can think of is that they're like, would you like to talk about this? No. No. That's it. Yeah. No. How would you like to glorify yourselves with this? Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Zero. I don't even wanna talk to you.

That's the kind of indignant raw Jesus love that I can really dig on. Like, I'm sorry you have the wrong number style stuff. Any comment? Not at Don't even talk to me. You know? But but like I said, it was it was an interesting thought process and and I actually felt it was a little bit condemning in the beginning. I'm like, why am I this way? I don't wanna be this way. Can you refine this part out of me? Lord, I I I I don't even wanna look at this and have some kind of opinion on it, you know. I just wanna be like, yeah, okay. But then I'm like, I don't I don't know. When it was when you start putting it in different examples apart from the hot button topic, I'm like, you know, I wouldn't bring, you know, hey, I'm sorry you broke your whiskey bottle, grandpa. You know, I brought you another one. Yeah. You know the fifth. And then it it then it starts to feel a little bit different. Well, yeah. There's a certain level of discernment you have to have when when relationship building from the perspective of I wanna get to know this person so that I can introduce them to Jesus, so that there can be a call to righteousness. You know, you can you can build a relationship by showing up and and then sweeping, but at the same point in time, I probably wouldn't show up to a heroin addict's den and just be like, hey, I brought some heroin. Do you wanna do this with me and we could really get to know each other? We could budge. Like Right. We can we could do the same thing and then we have something to talk about, the track marks in our arm. Like, we're not gonna do that together, but I mean, I'd show up with a broom. Like, there's just there's just certain levels of discernment you have. Why are you bringing a broom to the heroin Well, maybe it's dirty. He's gonna be way confused. Maybe. Hey. He's got that's yeah. That's my conversation starter. Hey,

John. I I don't know. I know you're don't know. I know you're expecting me to show up with some black tar heroines, but I have a broom. Would you like to talk about Jesus? Actually, I think that would work. You say, John He's gonna sweep up your soul. We're gonna we're gonna clean up in here. You would at least have a spot to say, John, just recognize that you're on heroin. Some things are just gonna seem confusing at the moment. That's right. There's a good chance this broom's a dragon. Hey, man. Now, I'm just gonna have a broom in my head. You should say ouch every once in while. Oh,

that's hot. What's better? Nothing? Everything's just a confusing broom to start a conversation? Yeah. Hey, man. Why'd bring in the hurdy broom? Till it turns till it turns out he's not actually on heroin and he thinks you are. He's trying to turn you for Jesus. Yeah. Exactly. We both start, hey, do wanna know about Jesus? Hey, man. I already know about Jesus. Wait a minute. What? You brought in a broom dragon? Hey, you don't know Jesus. Originally,

I was gonna call you to Jesus. Let's just have some fellowship. Now, you wanna talk about your broom? I'm totally gonna keep a broom in the back of my truck now, just in case. So maybe maybe the takeaway from this whole deal is is, like, don't be afraid to walk through that process. Right? Like, that Yeah. Just like Wayne was talking about earlier, refinement is a bit of a process. You gotta figure out where you stand. If it turns out that you're you're just dead wrong, you know, repent of that jazz and move away from it, you know. But, like, you can't figure out if you're dead wrong if you didn't stop and take a look at it and see what you thought and where it was at and where your heart was doing. So I I don't think there's anything wrong with going through the process, but, you know, be willing to be condemned for it. You know, if you were just wrong, be wrong. Yeah. And then say, Lord, I'm sorry. Change this way. And and that's the thing is like that that type of understanding of a of a it's not really a balance. It's like a full force on both things. Jesus has got down and we traditionally stink at. Like, we swing harder with the right or left depending on what's going on in our lives or how we see a particular situation. And so, like,

I think the Holy Spirit levels that stuff out for you. You just gotta be willing to to submit your the righteousness of your action over to it and say, look, I just tell me how to deal with this. Right? Tell me how to look at a guy in the right way. Tell me how to react to a guy in the right situation, and and we can look at Jesus for our example. And and then it starts to sort those things out. But here's the thing is the the pause is a value. The pause is a value in a Christian life where, like, we don't feel like we have to go half cocked in any given situation and get on a microphone about something. Yeah. Right? That's why we run an hour show that that people, you know, like, we I we couldn't do this this type of conversation,

it it was like a five, ten minute conversation when on, like, a traditional radio format, but like we we can't work stuff out that way. Yeah. I don't know how to talk about it without giving it a good thirty minutes. Right. Because then I have a shot at least to tell me something that makes some sense so that we're we're trying to handle things the right way. And like, yeah, I mean, you're gonna you're gonna jack it up at times, But, like, at least gives you a shot to say, look, I'm I'm gonna look for Jesus for a while and see what he's doing, and then try to pull the trigger on whatever it is I got going on as opposed to feeling like I gotta fire off at the cuff and represent the entirety of Christendom with my gut reaction. Seems like a real problem. I've I've actually Welcome to the Internet. This is gonna sound bad, but, like, I've taken to I envision the Holy Spirit as Gandalf the Grey. Don't I just want you to stop there. Here here's why. Just there. It's and and it's not to take the reverence away, but, like, I have to have something that triggers me to to to to to want to know. And so like, I know when I'm in the gray. I know what I'm like, I don't know what I think here. And then I'm like because I will immediately think, I don't know what I think here. This is gray. And then automatically, my my head will go, get off the gray. The holy spirit's getting off the gray. Ask the holy spirit. Because

I know left to my own devices, I will fight to to to be the one that dominated the the the right thought. You know I'm saying? Like, I will put myself in control of that and be like, you gotta figure this out, Mike. You gotta get to the bottom of this thing. But then Gandalf the Grey shows up and goes, uh-uh. Nope. Nope. Holy Spirit's got this one. And I go, alright then, Grey. I'm out for a minute, you know. I'll back it down. So I don't know if that will help anyone else. Either that or you can take up heroin and use Gandalf the Grey on your own. You may be holding a broom. I recommend the first go the first go round. Alright.

Hey, you're listening to Live From The Path. You can check out I don't know why you would do this. Past episodes from the show at Live From The Path. Yeah. We have never have definitely not given them compelling reason to do so. And here, I like I said earlier, the easiest way to filter out the good for good content, just do the search for Wayne Stewart. Right. I feel like, yeah, it's safe to do that. You can watch the first half. Well, maybe not the first six minutes, but after that until Mike started talking part of the show. And there's some Classic. Wayne's here. He was performing with Chris Acres. He's got a new album album henceforth.

We were trying to work around the right way to bring him in. A a man with his hairstyling has to be brought in the right way. And so That's true. We're working on that. Like, he's been here before and I feel like we didn't do it up right. Who the hell? Chris. Chris Acres. Oh, yeah. He's His poster's on the wall, man. You you his poster? Look at that hair. Here's I I almost took him off my Facebook feed because I can't take him anymore. You know I'm saying? Like, I walked past the mirror, I'm like, ugh, and then I see Chris Eggers on the Facebook, I'm like, come on. He I You could go outside looking a little rough sometimes, you know.

The man just has it and that's I'm telling you, he's got it down. Late night Internet radio, the man's got it. Anyway, so he's he's got he's he's got an album that is that is coming. He's in fact, you could if you go look for him for his public page on Facebook, you can hear a clip of it. Are the full songs out there? I think they have the full song out there. Anyway, lots of exciting some stuff coming for the Chris Acres camp. So I we gotta figure out how to do that right and then I'm gonna not do it and then we'll just have to have him in regular style relatively soon. But go check that out. But like past clips of the show, you'll see Wayne and Chris in here together and some some past hits from Wayne, including 78, which is one of my favorites.

Yeah. I I I do love 78. I know. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Just once. Just once. I wish on the show we can give an endorsement to someone that didn't turn creepy within thirty seconds. Yeah. Sorry. It's just, hey, they're a great character. They do wonderful at what they do, and I don't have a creepy comment about them that has to do with me looking at them in social media and saying, hey, that guy is snazzy or or figuring out, hey, I watched them through their kitchen window.

Like, just one time. I've been waiting years People want endorsement. People thirst for the type of honesty that we provide on the show. Where other people like, yeah, I've Chris is okay. You know, I like his tunes or whatever. Listen to his music. They are secretly thinking, that's cool hair. But they don't wanna say that because they might be creepy. I'm laughing at that. We tell it like it is. If we think your hair is nice. Talking about? Yeah.

We'll we think your hair is good enough to shame us Yeah. It don't take much. We'll tell you. Okay. Mike, what what do got over there? Okay. Here we go. It's a dear life from the path. Oh, wait. Wing, Emmy, feel free to jump in on this. It's advice time. Okay. Here we go. Dear life from the dear life from the path. I have officially found my biggest pet peeve. It's a pervasive issue with my generation of committing to something and not showing up. They'll flake at the last minute or refuse this is you, boo. Yeah. I was gonna say replace my generation with booba. Trust me. In my head, I did I did what I have to do in Proverbs and I changed fool to booba. I told him I just did a I did a

I did a this is this is someone come. Did was this one of you guys that complained about me? I wouldn't write them. Here we go. Boo Boo will flake out at the last minute and refuse to commit to something because there's a possibility something better will come along. And he constantly shows up late, has become normal with young adults. Furthermore, despite the many techno technological advances that allow us to communicate quickly, Buva's failure to communicate about plans astounds and infuriates me. I've encountered this problem too often with Buva, Buva, Buva, and boova.

I am a lot of people to this person. I have tried to let it roll off my I have tried to let it roll off my back and remind people about how their rudeness affects others, but I'm not sure what else I can do. Obviously, I can't control other people. How can I express my frustration without being a monster? Booba, how's this handled? Alright. Here's the deal. There's okay. You you gentlemen have handled this correctly. There's a certain level of stop giving them a safe zone

that needs to happen. If you've got someone in your life that is constantly terrible at me. If I'm in your life and I'm constantly terrible about telling you I'm gonna do something and then not doing it, get away from their safe zone and tell them. Look them in the face and say, can tell you five things in the last six months that you've told me you were gonna do and you didn't do. Why are you being a fool? Why do you keep lying to me? And is this honestly how you wanna act for the rest of your life? Because there's a good chance they need that. And I will tell you that I've had to have that before. Like, when the within the last six months, I've had to seriously step back and go, I and it's it's I I I think it's James, where it's let your yes be yes and your no be no. Right? Like, I know that that's kind of

sort of in a different situation, but I kind of take that also from the perspective of, let's say I'm gonna do something, need to do it. And if I need if I say I'm not gonna do something, I need to stick to that. My generation is terrible at that. We are awful at saying, yeah. I can do that, but in the back in the end, oh, it's just like a Facebook RSVP that I can just change at any time and go not going. And it's ridiculous. You have to you have to take it upon yourself because some other people may not do it, and they need to hear that they're being ridiculous and they're being disrespectful to the people that they're they're they're dealing with.

So a word from someone who's a recovering boova, I can, I can tell you, yeah, you need to, you need to stop lying because that's exactly what you're doing? If you have no intention of going and you're saying you're going, you're lying. If you say you're going and you have intentions to going, but then you back out of the second part, your word means nothing. Yeah. You mean absolutely nothing. Your word means nothing. You are laughed at and you are you have no deserve for respect. That is exactly where you are. You are a fool and you're a joke. Yeah. You know, Buva. Here's the deal. Like, Buva, ain't telling lies here. I like I've grown men have this problem, you know. And and, like, the problem is is what normally suffers is their family. Right? Like their inability to to to say, no. I'm not gonna do this, like, to their employer, to their buddies or whatever,

where they have they know their priorities ahead of time. They know they should be home with their wife and their kids doing what they're supposed to. Right. And they they will be like, yeah. Well, you know, like, their inability to say no, I consider that just as much a lack of integrity as is outright lighting and say you're gonna be somewhere and not be there. Well, I think you keyed this one up just for Mike. Like, Mike is the king of this. Hey, Mike. I think we're who wanna do this. You you interested going? No. Yeah. No. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that. Like, we're talking about oh, here's the deal. I don't get to see we don't go get to see my grandpa very often. Right? Like, there's always, like, I should call him more. We should go down and see him. We're like, boy, we just never do it. So I think we figured out that we can we can make a trip. We'll see Herrick at The Voice of the Martyrs. Right. Come back, see see my grandpa and stuff. And like Mike hasn't seen grandpa for a long time either. I'm like, hey, Mike. Hey, we're gonna try to go down and hook up and see grandpa over like a Friday, Saturday. Like, it's gonna be a two days, you know, everything. And Mike goes, yeah, that sounds pretty cool. I know. I I'm not gonna make that. I And like, he didn't even That is so much better than the alternative though. I know. Right? And it's so much better than the alternative. So many people are socially affre okay. So we make fun of Mike quite a bit Yeah. For being a socially awkward dude and not knowing how to have conversations. Uh-huh. If you put him in a Panera Bread and then put him in front of the bread dude that asks him what kind of bread do you want, Mike is not good in that situation. But if you say to him, hey, man, we're gonna go on a two day trip down to Oklahoma and then up and see grandpa, he's great in that situation where he go, that sounds awesome. But no. No. I'm not No. I'm not. There's there's no way I'm gonna make that. I can't swing that. I'm not gonna lie to you about the fact that I'm gonna make it. I'm not gonna pretend like I owe you a

Yeah. Maybe. You know what Like, I'm just gonna flat out tell you, no. No. No. That sounds great, but no. Here's the deal. It's like and and, it's one of those things where and I don't say this very often, but like I I wish I handled things better than mine. What I would what I would be prone to do is be like, yeah. I don't I'm not sure if I can do that or not. And then I'd go home and casually mention it to my wife and expect her to say, yeah, you should go. That way, I didn't have to say, I wanna go and have her reject it because I took the irresponsible time away from my family. So I'm like, hey, yeah, guys were talking about going out to this. Put your thoughts on that. And then she then my own wife has to say things like, didn't we say we were gonna do this or you or the kid I'm supposed to be doing this so the kids are gonna be with you blah blah blah. And then I have to make the decision to let me out of my own family responsibilities, because I'm a pansy.

Here's here's the here's the serious situation. Right? So this last last six months to a year has been a weird part in in boova life, because I've kinda had to go from the thought process of man, I can't wait to find a lady that's gonna fix all this stuff for me. It's just gonna it's gonna make me a really good dude someday, because we're just gonna counteract each other and then that's how marriage works. Yay. And then within the last six months to a year, I've watched people and I've kind of been shut down in that situation. Boopi, that makes absolutely no sense. That is how a divorce happens to where you have brought yourself into a situation where you have said, hey, lady. I've got like 50% of a dude. Can you get the other 50% for me and make that work?

I totally run into this situation. And so that's what I'm afraid of doing is like, I need to find myself in a place where I fix this stuff before I get in a marriage, before I go to a lady and go, hey, here's half a man. You're a whole lady.

Can you also loan me a half a man? Can can you loan me half a booba? Can I have because I spent years, like, doing the dishes doing the dishes? I realized, like, three weeks ago that I do not do the dishes on a daily, weekly or biweekly situation to where I have had to make the decision more than five times in my life. Do I do the dishes or do I throw them away and buy new ones? That is ridiculous. Like like not paper plates Right. No. I'm talking like I have glass dishes that I've thrown away and I'm just like, meh. You know, it's just it's not really worth it. Like,

I have Tupperware upon Tupperware that I have, like, 8,000 lids, but then I don't have the bowls because I just threw them away after a while. It's little stuff like this where I'm just like, man, really need to figure this whole deal out before I ask a lady, hey. Like like, what You want you want in? My exactly. My marriage proposal is gonna be like,

are you sure? Do you have dishes? Do you by chance do the dishes and or laundry once or twice a week? Can I have because that's what I'm looking for? Can I have my rib back? Yeah. Exactly. I I don't want I don't wanna be the good time dude that's just really good at having fun, but then it's terrible at being a man. And I think that that's the situation we're running to with a lot of people that are willing to be the good luck or the good happy person where they'll say, yes, I'll do this and absolutely I'll be there, but then don't have the stones to back up the situation where they can go, no, I can't be there or if I say I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be there. No. And and there's also like, some of it again is is there's there's some attempts at altruism here, like, wanna promise to be able to help. People are like, hey, can you help me do this? Can you help me do this? Can you help me do this? And like, you wanna say yes to all these people. Well, the truth is you can't do it. Right. Yeah. You can't agree to all that stuff, and that you're not being helpful if you're actually not doing the thing that they asked to You've just inconvenienced yourself,

caused them to feel guilty for having bothered a busy man who can't get us the stuff done they said he would do, like like, you're not actually you think you're being helpful, but you're not. I I've run into that before. I have, like, a very I'm not great at anything, but I'm pretty good at a lot of things. And so, like but there's, like, wide different ranges of people asking for help. Hey, I wanna record a tune. Can you edit this video? Can you, you know, the the judge of poetry contest? Like, all kinds of weird stuff. And, like and so I'll I'll say yes to things, and I'll be like, I can't I'm not gonna make that. I'm gonna get that in time and then maybe I'll I'll get it done, but I'll get something done three or four days late and and I thought, my yes wasn't a yes. Right? Like, I could have just said, look, I can't do this, you know, maybe if I had a month or like if I like if I was honest at least about a time frame, but like, don't say yes if I can't say yes to honestly or at least, you know, if if there's a caveat to it, provide the caveat. Just be honest with people. You know, I the it's kind of a two way or a two sided deal because there's an altruistic perspective to that if I wanna make sure that I'm doing the thing for everybody. But there's also a pride deal to that too. Yeah. Where a lot of people are from look at it from well, I mean, like a worship pastor walks up to me and says, hey, can you do backup singing on Sunday? My pride goes, well, I mean, probably. Yeah. That's I could definitely do that. Like, I I can sing some some bars for a little bit. But then I look at it from the perspective, hey, God's got a lot of people. Like, he he knows a lot of people and probably a lot more people that can sing than I can. And so my altruism, which is really pride Yeah. Is saying, you know, yeah, I could totally be a singer because you need one. Or I could just go, no. No. No. You don't want me to be your singer. Wrong guy. I can I can stand there if you want me to and I can Yeah? Like, no. It's terrible. Right? Like, it's awful. You find someone else. And and you're doing someone a better service by going, I probably could do that, but there's definite possibility that God's got someone who's a lot better than I am. Yeah. Go find that person. I I feel like if you are

willing to embrace the the social awkwardness, your life will eventually get better for you. Except for the Panera Bread. Yeah. Oh, well, except for I mean, it does come with bags that you can't get rid of. Like, when you're dealing with regular people, they're like, do you want a receipt? And I say, why? Then Rather than just Instead of no thank you, I'm like, what for? And then we stared at each other for a couple of seconds and I just turned around and leave because I don't know how to handle that situation. What kind of bread are you looking for? I I have no idea. It is We love you, Mike. Alright. What's secular I have to say about this one, man? Long long story short on the on the on the telling the truth thing is, like,

your your your bolstered explanations on why you can't do something are completely not necessary. If you can embrace the social awkwardness of just saying, hey. We're having a party. Can you go? No. Then that's it. That's it. You don't try make story or, you know, try to make up this whole deal or whatever. Just say, no. I can't make that, and then just leave it go. And, like, you'll get used to it after a while. There is here's the deal. There is freedom in that integrity. Yeah. There's there's freedom in just being honest with people like, hey. This is this is what it is. No. I ain't coming. Okay. Why aren't you coming? I don't know how make it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Good. Just doesn't sound I'm a homo. A about your personality in general. It just makes me not wanna come to your place. I mean, whoops.

Dang it. Secular says, I assume that you have already expressed your frustration to at least some of the people you have prescribed. If this happens regularly, it's a sign that they don't care how their behavior affects you. You could spare yourself much stress if you start deleting irresponsible

self centered individuals from your circle to the extent that it's possible. Of course, you can't do that with those who have control over your life such as professors or employers right now. So you have to tolerate some of this behavior for the present. Yeah. When people don't live up to your standards, you should abandon them. Absolutely. Mhmm. Right. Now try and help them out of that situation. No. A 100%. I think you I I don't want you getting into that giving up on me fellas. Like, I really appreciate it. That's terrible advice. I mean, I get it, but let you know. Hey. Here's the thing. It's like I would say and and Bubba, guess I can coming from your perspective or mine, I have some of this in me too, is I don't I don't think of it that way. Right. I don't think that I'm treating people poorly. Like, I I've I've I've I've really reacted selfishly. Right. I just don't recognize that I've been that way. And I I I do actually sometimes need someone to reorient and say, look, you shouldn't volunteer for that. Yeah. Lot times people just wanna make you happy. Yeah. And just go, yeah. That sounds great. They're not thinking, oh, how can I foil their plans by not showing up? Like,

it's not it doesn't have to be some weird, like, devious plan to say yes to something and then not show up. Yeah. It's true that they may not be they may not care about you, but they're not thinking of it that way. Right. They're they're looking at it. They wanna make you happy here, and then that's it. And here's here's how communication works. They don't know that because you didn't say it. So Why don't you share it with them? Hey, Boova. Remember that one time you told me you were gonna do something and you completely didn't? Yeah. That was awful. That's all we need to hear. Ready for one more? Yeah. One more. This actually falls in a pretty close to the same category of the conversation we're talking about earlier. Excellent. I know I have an issue with alcohol. Yep. Hold on. Dear life from the path. I know I have an issue with alcohol. I've read about local AA groups, but they don't seem right for me because I'm an atheist. When I went to my doctor, along with my supportive husband, she had no suggestions to offer. I know I need help beyond what friends and family can provide. Do you have any ideas for me? Here's my answer though. No.

I I don't. Right? Because, like, I there are programs that are pretty helpful, but, like, I I don't know how to counsel people outside of Jesus. You know I'm saying? Like, well, here's my specific problem. Blah blah blah. I'm like, do you know Jesus? Right. And I don't know counseling. I just know the king. How do you say life's gonna get better if you quit this if you don't bring them to Jesus? It's not. I mean, let's say you're not an alcoholic and still an atheist. You didn't solve anything as far as I'm concerned. And so, like, I only know how to say, okay, we can try to find you some help, but let's talk about something first. First off, what I'll say is AA does not necessarily cater just to religion.

AA does a pretty good job of just giving some good tips for Don't they just call it, like, the higher power? Power. I don't meetings, they say higher power or something along those lines. Yeah. Depending on who the counselors that gives it, they'll they'll go, like, you know, submit to your higher power or, you know, if if there isn't one, you know, just make certain that you're doing doing something that's gonna make, what's this doing for your family? What's this doing for people around you? That has nothing to do with Jesus in that perspective. It's just, hey, you're an alcoholic. You're hurting your family and people around you. And yourself. Yeah. And yourself. And so AA will work perfectly fine for you if you are an atheist, first off. But second off, I kinda find myself in Mike's camp too, where I'm just like, yeah. You can get yourself to not be an alcoholic,

but then, like, I still don't see twenty years down the line how you're not gonna go, man, drinking was pretty sweet. I remember when that happened, and, like, when I was in rough times, that bottle of booze was awesome. And if there's no Jesus to supplement that bottle of booze, I really don't know how it works because I've seen it fail on so many occasions. See, that's the thing. It's like When I when we say stuff like this, it sounds like we're gonna do it in an ultra cheesy way. Like, hey. I'm an alcoholic. Well, do you know Jesus? You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't do it like that. Like, you have to love people where they're at and, like, them whatever they're struggling with is, like, you have to love them to the point that you're willing to understand that and walk through it with them. And when I say walk through it with them, that's what I mean. You know what I'm saying? Not Exactly. Not preaching from the bleachers or whatever. Like, you you gotta walk through it with them and it's it takes some energy and, like, I can only get the energy to do that kind of stuff with Jesus help me. Right? Like, it turns out that, like, I have a hard time relating with people. I have a hard time loving people to the extent that Jesus prescribes for them and I can't show any of that without his help. But like, in in the long run, I had a guy that that I was dealing with that he had he had some drug use in his past and and he was kinda straightening himself up and he got a job and he would call me all the time and he's like, yeah, I'm doing good or, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm getting better at the job and they're gonna promote me and stuff and like, all I could think of was like, I really wanna be happy with for you. Right? But like, you still don't know Jesus and like, I I don't know I I can't I don't measure things like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm really happy for you and I love that you're happy, but this is gonna be temporary for you. And it was. It was absolutely temporary for him. It did not stick and it did not stay

until he met Jesus. And then it did start to stick and it did start to stick. And so like, don't how can I say this? So you need you you have to love people. You have to love people where they're at and walk walk with them and they will sooner or later want to know why you're still there. And when you can say like I'm here because I am loved by by by Jesus and I just I really want you to know him and you can't shake me until you've at least given me a shot to explain this kingdom to you. And and like I I feel like you can do that in a genuine way and it's hard to prescribe make it not sound disingenuous, but like, you can you can love people in a genuine way, and and just by who you are and who you follow, it will become very obvious why you are still there. If you love people in a genuine and confusing way, I I that that's such a wonderful way. And I don't mean confusing from the perspective for you. I mean confusing for them. You know, I've dealt with with some of those situations too with, you know, people that that I love very much that that are going through either drug abuse or, alcohol addiction, stuff like that, or addiction of many other kinds. Sure. That's

if I would have just walked to them up to them and said, hey. Yeah. We both acknowledge that you're in a a pretty cruddy place right now. Let's talk directly about Jesus and only Jesus. Like, I'm not really gonna get a lot of feedback from them, and I'm not gonna get a lot of, well, now that you mentioned his name, he sounds great. Let's go ahead and this. Great. Goodbye whiskey. Jesus seems like a cool name. Like, I think I'll go for that guy. It's it's from the perspective of when they crash, when they are surrounded by their addiction, surrounded by the problems of their addiction, and then they cannot see anything else, and you're standing there with your hand open just saying, hey, no matter what you're dealing with right now, I love you entirely.

And they go, why? What's wrong with then you get to go, Jesus. And then they go, okay. Now his name sounds even cooler. Let's talk about him. Yeah. And I suppose that's that's the difference. Like, somehow the or or or even broad thought about introducing people to Jesus, ended up when do I get to have the conversation that they wanna have. Right? But like, we were talking about being an ambassador for the good news of the gospel. That thing was an action. Right. Right? Like you're you're doing something. It's not a it's not a cognizant assent. It's not a creed that you otherwise agreeing to. Like there's a reason where God could have shouted his redemption of the world down from the heavens and it would have been sufficient. There's something about sending in Jesus

Christ an active someone interacting with the world, demonstrating through hands and feet and otherwise encouraging as we go, like, it feels like something. And the truth is, like, when sometimes when we're saying, hey, I just wanna be able to talk to him about Jesus, like, that that's what your that's what your behavior is doing. Like, you're demonstrating something that says, I I need something that describes this behavior. All you're doing is putting a definition on and saying, you wanna understand what this is. This has been Jesus. This is good news. Like and and and not only because, hey, your life's improving. That's not the point. The point is is that there's a love that exists in the world that from which this type of thing happens. And and people are drawn to that type of hope and the the good news that comes with a kingdom which pours that out into existence. And so like like that's the thing is we just need to understand those things differently. That walking alongside someone, that those are feet that bring good news. Now they they Right. It will get articulated as as as Jesus, but like it's it's not a failure because you haven't been able to have a a verbal conversation right. Like, it's it's part of the process. It's it's part of the the nature of why,

part of how Jesus talks to our calls to righteousness looks like what we do. Like, it's why it matters what you do. I I saved, by grace through faith so that no one can boast, but four good works that I planned for you. Like, this this it's got stuff for you to do. And and that's it's one the things that kids and I pray for every night. It's like, help us to love people, so that they may know how much you love them, by how much we love them. And and, like, like, that's that's still part of that process. It's like, what we need to be careful of is that, like, it doesn't feel like that's a fail. It's not a fail. It's it's a natural outpouring of loving people. And then and then that, frankly, the Jesus becomes the definition of the way in which they understand such a thing.

I feel like I can't ever say anything as as well pointed as you. Like me and Boova get on. We're like, blah blah blah drug use, heroin, and brooms. And then you say the right thing, and then me and Boova have to be quiet for a couple minutes. Yeah. I I felt that way for a long time. Fair enough. Here we go. Secular says, I certainly oh, the question was, do you have any ideas for me? Secular said, I certainly do because there are secular alternatives to AA, and then she lists them. Congratulations. Hey.

From a secular perspective, she answered the question. Now hold a minute. Did you did this person wrote into the paper. Right? Like, does Google not exist in their place? I feel like this is easily Google able. Here's the deal. I really don't know how this this mode of communication still exists. Like, I really don't know how people are doing the whole, hey, is it alright if I bring over some pot roast to my friend's house? Like, I really don't get how that's not working because we have Facebook. Right. We have Twitter. We have social media in its vastness, and then we have Google. Hey. But but like, this is like someone who says, hey, I I'm I'm struggling struggling with alcohol addiction and I don't wanna go to AA. I'm gonna write into the newspaper and get my answer in six weeks if they decide to read my letter. I mean, that's that sounds like, hey, I wanna keep drinking. Have you reached out have you reached out for help? Well, I did news. I I

walked to the ocean with a bottle and then a note in the bottle, and I threw it, and I'm really hoping it and it makes it to the police. I also you know, and here's the wrong thing that popped in my mind, which was you said, I don't wanna go to AA, and I thought, like, you don't seem to have this you got this drinking thing wrong. Maybe you're not right about Jesus either. Like Yeah. Right. I mean, by comparison, I've made a track record of bad decisions. That's frankly how Jesus becomes more enlightened to me. Right? Yeah. It's like you start to follow him around. You're like, boy, I've really made some bad. Oh. You're like, wow. Oh, It's really working this out. And the more I do stuff, I'm like, you mean give money away? That sounded so foolish a couple years ago. I

feel like I should keep it and do stuff that I want. What would that be possible? Jesus. Alright. Bet. Let's do Life From The Path. I'm sorry. If you've recently written into the newspaper for advice, I feel, like, pseudo apologize. Just to Google. What we said about you. Real quick. Hey, just shoot us a direct email info life from the path dot org. You might as well skip the middle, man.

We we can take care of the advice directly. So that's if you have any feedback on the show, good or bad, just put it in the subject line if it's good, I'll read it. If it's not good, I'll I mean, we'll get to that at some point or other. Big thanks to Wayne for dropping by. Make sure you go check out, Wind Totem's Fall. Again, that's windtotemsfall.wordpress.com. You can get the preorder on the, paperback book also through Amazon. Hey, man. It's real easy. Go ahead hit up Amazon. Just do a search for Wind Totem's Fall. You can order that, it will deliver it to you automatically when it's released. Since the twenty first, would be Tuesday. It'd be coming out next Tuesday would be the release. Wait. Would it get there on the Tuesday or or the Prime? Yeah, man. That's digital goods, man. They'll just they'll they'll available it on the Tuesday. Okay. Hey, man. You should Google that. Figure out how long Yeah. Sorry. I interrupted the show with a standard question I could have taken care of later. Pardon me. And make sure, like I said, make sure you're engaging that art, man. Go go do a search for When Totems Fall on Facebook. There's a page out there where you can kind of interact. Leave your thoughts. I'm Wayne checks it. It says on the left hand side that he's very responsive to messages and I expect this behavior to continue, Facebook be a yes. And so

anyway, Wayne, big thanks for coming in. Congratulations on the book. And make sure you check that out. Next week hey, we're not gonna go to bash. So I I remember the last few shows, I said we're gonna be bash on the farm. We had some technical stuff that's not gonna work out. So we'll plan on that next year, see if we can swing out there. In the meantime though, there's some serious serious sweet acts out there. Light forty five is gonna be there. I've been digging on there. That I'm telling you gotta give these dudes a spin now. They they they they the one of the songs that that I took a listen to was called Steeped from that. Man, it's good. It's good. It's got the slide guitar action. It's it's it's really the kids love it. It was it was a good tune. Yeah. I can't pass a lot of these crazy tunes off on my wife and kids because they go and then they turn something else on when I leave the car. Yeah. But this this one they'll play in the full entirety of the fam. So it's a if you check out light forty five, they have a Facebook page and they gotta watch I think those boys are up and from Minnesota and I think they're coming on the show maybe in a couple months. They can find a way to get down here and hit us up on a Monday night. So anyway, go check that out. Thanks for hanging out with us on Life in the Path. Please please be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends and you've been listening to Life From The Path.