Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. We're coming from The Pathway Studios here in Johnson, Robert. It

is good to be with you this this fine evening. Yeah. It is. Hey. No. No. Gone completely. Dang it. I just had some sort of inspiration, and now it's gone. I lost it. That's depressing. I know. Right? Alright. Here's we got going on the show tonight. We were talking this just before the show started. The question is is I think we're gonna stretch the we're gonna stretch the image here a bit. But, like, the question is

is what is what is the posturing of the shepherd to the sheep when it comes to the sheep's motivation? Like, here's the deal. Depending on the circumstance, pastors will routinely use either the sheep as, like, a dumb animal who just kinda wanders the grounds and and, like, has to, like, literally be taken everywhere and dragged and and bandaged and all this business, or the sheep has some sort of inertia and motivation to them at which you're trying to coax them along, but is ultimately kind of their they they make their own decisions. And I think it's a difficult it's a difficult, dichotomy

when it comes to trying to help people. And we we've we nailed I think we talked on this topic a little bit when when when Robbie and Aaron were here from five seventeen. Yeah. Discover Hope. Discover Hope five seventeen. Right? About how, like, how do you help people?

Is it are are we folks are we to snatching people out of fires? Right? Are we supposed to be grabbing them and forcing them to do the right thing, because it is their best interest, and they're not making good decisions on their own? Or can you only help people who desire to be helped? Or is the distinction between the two just a matter of efficiency of which you might have more success doing one or the other, but you're still called to do both. And so I wanna talk about that a little bit because frankly, I think I you see that not only in your, in in in witness. Right? In attempts to change the world with good news for Jesus and to share good news to people. But I think even in tangible,

like walking miles kingdom work where you're actually trying to help people and you see people making weird decisions or decisions that you wouldn't make and you like there's a question as of how much? How much do you push or pull or tug or try to insert yourself into something? Or do they have to be, hey. I want your help, and then that's when you can step in? Otherwise, you're kinda wasting your time. And so we're gonna touch on that a little bit this week because I'm, I I think that's a consistent thing with me Yeah. Trying to figure out where that lives. I got more stuff to add in there too because, like, I you know? You know, I'll just wait. I'll wait. But I got more I'm gonna become a Calvinist on this one. It's gonna be a lot easier. I think there's a lot more peace in Calvinism history. God didn't choose him. It's not it's not my deal. He put Kim Kim Jong Un in power. So, you know I gave him a bible. I tried.

And he don't stand for the anthem. So Alright. So we're I we may touch on that. I just have, I don't know if it's a unique question, but, like, there's just noise there. There's just noise, and I wonder if I wonder if we have an opportunity to, like, at least filter through some noise here and, like, have, I don't even know if I wanna have, like, a discussion of what the right wrong is, but, like, the question basically is, how do you have the right discussion? Right? So, like, what are we looking for when it comes to situations like the football players kneeling?

How do we have a right discussion? How do we have a healthy discussion? And what does it look like to actually try to to to get somewhere with them? Because I'll I'll tell you this. My my reaction to to watching other people react is they're not talk people are talking about the same thing. Like, they're talking about what they wanna talk about. Some some of them are wrong in that respect. Some of them are right in that respect. But, like, they've they've chosen they choose the two or three things that make that make them right the most. They ignore any context or any that another side might be providing, and then we're just kinda tossing stuff, we're not really having a, I think, the right conversation. The question is how do you do that? How do how do we what do we look for? There's some broad things to look for as a as people of Jesus that say, if we wanna have the right conversation, here's the kinds of things we're gonna try to do and look for. So I kinda wanted to talk about that. I also thought it was interesting,

And I I don't even know if I have a question here, but I was looking at some news stories, and I I I guess I missed this. I missed this in the news, but, like, KCCI was carrying a story. It said, White White House dismisses absurd claim that US has declared war on North Korea. I thought, crap. What what happened? Oh, yeah. You missed it. Yeah. Did you know you guys saw that? Yeah. So and he said president said let's see. The implication was that if they keep talking away, they're talking Kim Jong un won't be around much longer. And there there's a North Korean diplomat who's taken that as, well, we consider that to be a declaration of war against his country by The United States. And I thought, good night. Well, okay. Now hold on. This is a multifaceted deal. Right? It's one North Korea believes a chewing gum placed on a sidewalk is declaration of war. You know what I'm saying? Like, those guys, they tell me I was listening to somebody talk about it today. They have literally said that's a declaration of war, like, 25 times in the last five years over multiple things. Right? So, I mean, here's the thing. They're a little hot tempered anyway. Right? But, like, I mean, good night. You couldn't speak for an entire nation.

I mean, I'm I'm begging you to get a speech writer and and parlay to them. Right? I'm just begging you to I mean, get your get your ideas fine tuned to a flowery man who will edit words out like son of a whatever that you think you're gonna use in American public. You know what I'm saying? And, like, just get someone you trust that's gonna convey the idea, but in a way that's palatable. You know, like I mean, people just if you can take Alka Seltzer and that will help ease your stomach, people will take alka seltzer. But if you're like, hey. Eat this brick. It'll do the same thing. Go with the alka seltzer. You know? I mean, just help people take it down a little bit easier. And, like, it just I'm just I'm I'm boggled. I'm you deal it's a I I you deal with a hot head crazy man. North Korea has absolutely I mean, that guy from Korea has absolutely no

level of sanity at all. I read I I should I should've I should've well, you wouldn't have read it. I was gonna say, I I should've shared this article with you guys, but I it's very long, and I Who would've thought about it? My my experience is you all don't read it. But, like, it was it was, like, a really wrong article. A guy went over there, and he wanted it was a journalist and he got access to, like, some of the military guys but, like, wanted to look at North Korea kind of outside the capital and stuff and, like, just get a feel for what their country's like. And so, anyway, he he ended up talking to one of the guys, one of the military dudes and the way that they view, like, history or information, like, again, their Eastern cultures have long memories. They just do. They remember things and, like, they're remembering it wrongly, at least from our perspective, but they the their the way they look at it is that the Korean War was an American aggression,

and they stood up to America, that's why America left. But that always there's this continued threat of renewed American aggression, in in the Korean Peninsula. Basically, they they've been stolen from them. Right? So they look at themselves as a rightful winner of a Korean War, and that the the basic nature of what happened isn't isn't how we would describe the Korean War. Right? And so but their whole foundation of basically where they come from is is is on that. Like, we're we will we will not we saw how we saw how America treated Qaddafi. So so, like, we we did. We went in there, we pumped money, and we supported Qaddafi. And then he ended up dying, and we provided no support. I mean, we shouldn't probably support support too many. The man's horrible to his people.

He was also a lesser of two evils if you wanna be utilitarian about it. And so, like, broad scale, they say, well, America says they were gonna they were gonna, you know, basically not cause problems here, and then we ended up arming people who killed Qaddafi. And so from a North Korean standpoint, they said, look, they're America has always been aggressive. They cannot be trusted. Look what happened with Taddafi. And so for the honor of our people, we simply will not stand and play the games that America will will play with people, and so we're going to be ready to act at a moment's notice. That's their perspective. Right? Some of which is grounded in, like, a pseudo reality, some of which is completely false. But but, like, that's that's what we're dealing with and his description of, like, how these people think, they they described and said, look, you you you recognize, You you they think, the our president is is kind of a hothead who might, like, go off the rails, and they're like, yes, we recognize that. And they said that, you know, your whole country could be wiped out, and they said, but not everybody. Like, their perspective is if 20% survive some sort of reaction here,

that's okay because they've defended their honor, because they have stood up for for their people and not allowed an aggressor to otherwise treat them in a certain way. And so it's it's interesting to hear it from that perspective, not because it changes, for the most part, anything I think, but, like, you recognize what people are working with. Like, they're working with certain bits of information, a certain understanding of history, a certain sets of data, and, like, their decisions are coming from that, and they sound way more reasonable in that context.

And so, anyway, the the article was just was was was did a good job at least understanding where people are coming from. And these I don't know what it's like to be a diplomat from North Korea. Right? A guy whose job it is to go out into the world and deal with other people. And and frankly, think you're running into that with some of our some of our diplomats, like, even even Tillerson, like, having to go out into the world and deal with some of the stuff that that our president's saying. Like, he just, you know, he he has difficult trying to align that with other things that we might have said or done in the past or whatever. And so, anyway, it's just an it's an interesting perspective, and it just recognizes that, like, people are functioning in their own boxes, which probably feeds into that NFL conversation, I guess. Yeah, that's also true. But I anyway, I I I had not even realized such a thing was happening, and I feel like somebody's just gonna somebody's gonna lob a bomb. Someone just just because you're you're you're dealing with a guy who who is, like, hair trigger on, hey, America's gonna be aggressive, like, he's just gonna flip a switch and just say, you know what? I part my hair to the left today. Wabo. And he's gonna he's gonna throw something at China or Japan or something. You know, I you know, so I was thinking this a bit, and and I don't wanna turn this into a big old Trump discussion. It's more about a presidential discussion. Right? But, like, what do people actually expect out of that out of the out of the president? Right? Like, if you'd have found me a couple years ago, I just said, look, I just want a guy that's honest. Right? Like, even if he's a little rough around the edges, I just want a dude that's honest, you know, that I feel like is is not playing some kind of weird political posturing game, you know.

But then to a certain extent, like, I I just I mean, I just don't know how I feel about a president swearing at people. You know what I'm saying? Like, in public, I'm just like, you know, I dig honesty and, like, in the in the in the in the back ends of of of all all my friends, it's littered with profanity. You know, it's not like I'm generally offended by bad language, you know, most of the time, but I'm like, do do I have a certain picture in my head of what is presidential? You know what I'm saying? Like like, where I'm irritated by flowery,

you know, flowery political speeches, you know, sometimes you'll hear a political speech and it's a it struck exactly the right tone, and it said exactly the right thing, but in words that that gave people something to gather around. And and, like like, it held more value just in the way that you presented it. You know? And and and, like, I I just thought I thought even if even if I felt even if I like the fact that someone is honest in the way that they're portraying the way they feel, I I think I hold the presidential office maybe to a higher standard than that. And I can't figure out exactly where my line is. You know, it's it's just weird to me Right. That I would have a problem with that, because generally, I wouldn't. I generally appreciate people who swear to just swear and not hide it and act like you don't and be all phony about it. If you swear, swear. You know? And and and so, like, with but but, like, even something so stupid as as as as for the for the topic anyway of the standing up the protest when Trump called somebody a son of a whatever. You know what? I'm like, you know, could you just not do that? You know? You gotta fight every fly that comes in the the White House front door. You know? I mean, you could pay people. You could ignore it. That's what I do at my house. He does pay people. Well, there's people on staff that speak for him.

It was like the guys that will talk for him, and he'll come bowling over, like, out of the back room and, like, what I really meant to say was, like, you know, I mean, I I get it. You know, you don't you don't wanna be part of this political mess and and and whatever. And but, like, I mean, honestly, sometimes your delivery is just everything. Just the way that you present it and walk in a situation and tone a room down and address people like you have respect for them, you know, I'm like, I just I don't know. I I can't decide where my line is on what I actually would want out of a out of a president. Right? I don't want a political meandering doofus who just talks in a stupid speak that I can't understand in lofty ways and doesn't actually do nothing. But then on the other hand, I, you know, I don't want it so real that you're profaning out of the White House. You know? That's too much for me. You know? So I don't know. I don't know exactly what I think there. You want Joe Biden. Maybe. That's who you're after, Mike. Just recognize the output of your progress.

Breaking Joe Biden. The everyman. Yeah. I do. The guy that can't contain himself on national TV. You know, it's it's weird that you say that because, like, I I would what was that was we were talking about something or other. And it had to do with, like, places that have levels of

procedure. Right? A proper a proper etiquette to say, hey, look, you're gonna dress this way. You're, you know, if you're gonna do this, you're gonna have to wear this certain type of shirt or belt or whatever it is. Right? And you think yourself, like, this isn't really necessary. It's not the core of the issue. But, like, there's also a party that says, I I kinda value structure and people putting putting themselves together and saying, hey, this is how we do this type of thing. Yeah. And, like, I think we don't know how to have a balance of that, in in our country. Like, we want, we want honesty, but we want, we do kinda want a sense of,

gravitas to things. Like, we don't actually want, you don't actually want, people wearing shorts in the White House. Right? Right. And you think yourself, hey. It doesn't matter whether his legs are out, and I know that. And, like, I would I had the same conversation with my grandfather fifteen years ago when I came to church. Right? I said, what do I care that someone's got shorts on? But then I look at my own kids and I'm like, hey. Can you, you know, can we can we put up something I I I I don't wanna tucks and tails here. Right? But, like, you don't have to wear that dirty shirt to church. Can we put something on here? And I don't know what's driving my balance except for the fact that, like, I feel like, hey. We getting together. We don't have to look ridiculous here. But it's not a sense of propriety. Right? Like, I if there was a guy that stumbled in in that, I'd be like, heck, yeah. Right. And so, and and I wouldn't advocate to say you can't wear shorts at church, but, like, it's it's kind of that same thing is that you want if if the core of the matter says it doesn't matter, but then, like, once you care about it, you then want you want that you care about it to be reflected in things.

But where to call that or what's appropriate to do that is very it's I don't know. That's that's hard for me. I have a hard time with that. But you want you want someone who's in leadership to at least sound smarter than you. Yeah. That's true. I suppose even if it's phony. Right? I just at least wanna feel somewhat comfort somebody's on it. And and the more profanity someone uses, the less educated they sound. Know, they just go, you know, like, my third grader talks like that. I mean Right. They're kinda they've grown beyond that, you know. And and and the same, like, wearing shorts around, whatever, in in in a in a place that normally you wouldn't see shorts. Right. You know, you just go like, yeah, I kinda expect a little more out of you. Yeah. You know, know, you're the president of The United States or, you know, a leader of some stature, national stature like

expect more. Yeah. Push come to shove, you couldn't say it's wrong. Right. But, like, there is just a level of expectation that says, look, you're you're what what's boo boo? You gotta rise above the room with your pants selection if you're gonna be the guy teaching Right. It makes it it makes it feel like maybe, like, like, they don't understand the weight. Right? Like, maybe I we've given this position some weight, and, like, if you understood the weight, then you would dress up to it because the weight existed, It's you like Obama used to always wear, like, these nineteen eighties mom pants. Yeah. And and I thought, okay, you're supposed to be the leader of the free world, at least look more manly than me. You you know, you you you you're just not doing it. Yeah. I don't know who they hire. You know what I'm saying? Like, to to surround them and be like, you know, what do you think of these mom pants I have on? Oh, yeah. That looks good. Let's you know, you're only here for four or eight years. Let's just do the slacks. Yeah. Let's just I mean, let's stick with the standard. All even when you relaxing, it's slacks time, you know? Like, we just can't go wrong here. It's you know you know what the like, going back to this to to how they speak, right, like, I like truth, but I don't like loss of control.

I don't respect where and this is true for how, like, people's demeanors or, like, I don't mind harsh words, I don't mind stern talk, like, I don't mind honesty, but, like, I like it. I respect the sense of control. And when you don't seem to have a, when there's not a sense of control to your voice, and the things that you're saying or how you're saying it, that makes that makes me start to not trust people, I guess. So that that's probably what more more so what it is, like, if you ignore the words themselves and probably where it comes from, even the reactions to the president. Like, again, if you drill them down to the core, shorts are fine. Right? They're it's not it's not illegal to wear shorts. If you drill them down to the core, some of the stuff the man is saying, you're like, okay, you know, it's either hyperbole or, you know, if you put it in context for everything else, maybe it's alright. But, like, broadly,

I boil it up and I say there's a there just feels like a lack of a sense of control here, and I have I have a hard time with leadership that doesn't have a sense of control. No. I think that's very true, actually. Like, honest, re like, reasoned reasoned truth. Like, that you would like to even show that you struggle with it. Like, because when you ignore that the issue actually probably has struggle in there, whatever it is. Right? Whatever the thing that we're talking about or whatever the thing we're trying to decide, like, it's it's it's never that black and white. And, like, when you're presenting information to some to somebody, you know, you wanna present it as if as if you did do the struggle. You went through it, and and this was the best route, and this was the truth. And, like, that's all that most people can't find these days even with all the, especially with all the the media outlets is, like, you just cannot figure out who's telling you the truth. Everybody has bent it before it's gotten to you, and you're like, if I could just I mean, some people are real obvious in the way that they bend, and some people ain't. And so you're just sitting there like, you know, I I wish I had just been there or something, you know. So I could at least take this in whole, and then I could process it. But right now, I'm getting it filtered seven times already Mhmm. And it feels like you using a weird filter that looks like what you want it to look like, you know? And, like, you just can't ever I don't know. You just can't trust anything coming out of anybody's mouth that that someone with a reasonable attitude went through it and figured it out. And, like and that's that you're right. It's it's a it's a reason to truth that I think that that that you're missing, and it just it does. It equals a lot of mistrust. So so so maybe that rounds us out to so talking about this, the NFL players

either kneeling or not coming out for the Stars Piglet banner, that kind of stuff. So I saw a lot, you know, I saw a lot of discussion about this, and I think the question is, how do you talk about those types of things reasonably? Right? Like, you have you have groups of people. You'll want it to it's an extremely disrespectful thing to our flag, to our veterans, to our country. Other folks who who look at this and say, not only is there freedom to do so, but we are we are trying to to draw attention to something that we think is important, and why wouldn't we use our platform to do that? Like, what kind of person if we feel like it's important, who bails on that in this in this context? And so,

like, what are the earmarks of a of a of a of a Christian looking at, I don't know, hard conversations or, amped up conversations, especially ones with big, that are weighty, that have big consequences,

and that are seem to would, draw fire from both sides. How do we have a right conversation? How how how do we look at things? What what how do you go about having a right conversation? What are the medium to do so? How how do we digest those types of things before we open our mouths? What do you I don't know. What do you guys think?

I I know I've I've have attempted in the last few years to be, more along the line of James, slow to speak, quick to listen, slow to become angry,

because almost every time my initial thought is wrong. Right. You know, or or you know, either wrong or flawed anyway. Yeah. You know? Not reasoned, right? Not completely reasoned through and gone through. Exactly. It's a reaction. Well, yeah, you're a bunch of blah blah blah, you know, and they're like, well, that's not really what I was doing. And that's what you're seeing a lot on Yeah. On the social media, people responding back and forth, and and and even, like, I heard people on the radio today, even I just went to a sports channel, it's just lucky, let's just talk well, of course, it was a sports event, but and like, I couldn't get away from it, I finally just turned on music, and it just seems like everybody's arguing about everything

that that has nothing to do with anything Right. You know, and they're throwing out First Amendment and this stuff, I'm like, well, the First Amendment isn't like, mean I have to like what you do, it just it just means the government's not gonna arrest you. Right. I I mean, you know, so even that's like, those are blow both sides are blowing everything out of proportion. Right. Which doesn't answer your question. It's that's why I've just remained silent more and more Yeah. On things because, you know, especially in big national things, I don't know what's going on behind closed doors when they say, here's how we're gonna do this, and it's gonna cause a reaction,

and I don't wanna be a sheep. Right. I don't wanna be led up to the, yeah, we'll we'll rile up the base on this one, and it's like, I'll let you know when I'm riled up. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's right. I'm the base. I will tell you when I'm riled. Exactly. That that's that's actually okay. So if I can if I can take away things that you can apply to that then Yeah. The first one would be is is is we're going to be slow to speak and and reasoned. Right? So, like, we would like, don't

it's it's foolish to let someone play you like a violin. If someone can say, we're gonna do this to rile up this broad group of people, and you allow people to play you like a violin, you you you just fell for it. Mhmm. Right? So you shouldn't be able there's nothing about a Christianity or following Jesus that should say, we can easily fall into a group group of people who can be played like a violin. That isn't how we do things. Well, I I swear my Facebook's loaded with these tunes. They got these dudes all tuned up where I'm like, I'm getting Facebook feeds where, like, like, this dude has commented on, like, people for Kaepernick, you know, Facebook pages is the name of the Facebook page. And, like, he has no business there. You know, like, he disagrees with that wholeheartedly. And here he is making comments. I'm like, what are you doing? You just like, it lit because I think that Dana's completely right. Like,

What was that, I I got that on tape, buddy. Mark that. I totally expected to be disagreeing with Dan in this discussion two minutes in. I, like, I'm I'm I'm being honest. I thought me and Dan are gonna be on the opposite sides of this deal. Gotta feel it coming. And, like but he's completely right. It's a it's a you're you're missing a completely reasoned conversation. And here's the thing, with the information available, it's not possible. Right. It's it's just not it's not possible. You cannot have a reasoned conversation because, like, all the facts, I don't know I don't know the dude that started it. I don't know why the dudes are doing it now. I know why people are saying. I don't know those guys. I haven't met them. I don't know whether they're just like, look, this is just a thing for me, and I gotta do something. And I'm in earnest, and I just want to do something, and I don't know what else to do, and so I'm gonna do this. And, like, I mean, I watch veterans across the way. They're like, look, I my buddies died for that man's ability to do that, just that. You know, like like, I don't have to like it. I don't have to love it. He ain't gonna get arrested, but I'm telling you what, I died so that man can do that. And I'm like, I, you know, I think that sounds right to me. You know, I I I I don't know. Like, I just there's just so much going on that I'm like, I can't, without knowing anybody individually in it, talking to anybody on why they're doing it, what their motivation is, I I I'm with Dan. I have a I have a knee jerk reaction to it. There's no doubt. You know? But, like, overall, I I just don't know that I could come to a a reason to stick my flag in anywhere. I'm just like, look. I you know, at the at the end of the day, I

have to try I'm trying to love you guys and figure out how I can do that on both sides and do it well. Right. And you're basically saying I have to define my love by my stance on what's going on right now, and I'm not gonna offer that up. Sick, even like I'm listening to the radio and and they're making people feel guilty if if you don't like the fact someone kneeled, you know, like, that's their free speech. That's their first amendment. I'm like, you know, that doesn't mean I I can I cannot like that? You're right? I mean, I I don't know all the details, but I know that there's something in my gut that says, I just don't like what they're doing. Right. You know, whatever the issue is. I mean, I just don't care what the issue is. Like, I and and I I don't think it's, People are like, well, you're disrespecting the military. I thought that that flag represents a lot more than the military. I I say they're disrespecting me. I'm an American. That's my flag. You know? It's it's my country.

So I would I would prefer them to find another way. However, it is also quite effective because everybody's talking, maybe not about the issues they want, but at least it started some more conversation. As I say that though, I'm thinking it's just riling up the hate back and forth, so maybe it's not real conversation. Well and that's that, I think, is maybe maybe a second potential principle here, which is if you're gonna spend time interacting with this thing,

why don't I do my best to try to figure out what they're actually intending to do and maybe not what they're succeeding at? Right? So, like, here here's what here's what I've what I've gathered from the conversation so far is it is not their intention it is not their intention to have a First Amendment debate. Right. Right? That's not what they that's not what they actually care about. There's no one there's no one saying, hey. I just wanna see if I can test the limits of the First Amendment. And so I think that's not the intention. Do I think I think that I have a a group of people who look at that flag and maybe see something different than you do.

Right? Like, it's a symbol of something, and what it symbolizes for you, a promise that they act that they don't see actually being kept. Right. And so whether accurate or not, right, if that is a perspective that they're having and they're trying to draw attention to something of of where they feel like maybe our country isn't keeping its promises or the symbol that that flag is supposed to represent isn't keeping that promise, I don't know whether that's true or not. I don't live their lives. Right? Can I so if I'm gonna be if I'm gonna try my best to say they're trying to draw attention to the fact that that might mean something different or be a different reality for someone, Can I recognize that? I think I can. Can I recognize, however, that on the on the other side of that thing, the very fact that they get to have this conversation, the very fact that,

you know, we the society that we live in, if you if you compare it relatively to to even that situation to other societies throughout the world and kind of the grand experiment that America was and the opportunity that we have to have this conversation freely, and the the the moment of which it's being done? Like, there are other ways to draw attention to this. The effectiveness is aside. You know, can I understand that that is something where someone who cares about this country, that is something that impacts them when someone, at least from their perspective, disrespects it? I can certainly appreciate that. And so, like, the conversation is actually two two groups of people, caring about something, trying to point out something that they that they that they love or that they,

they believe to be true, that is important to them, and they're trying to draw attention to it. And so if I can get there, then, frankly, then you just start evaluating tactics. Well, is this effective? Well, the truth is is that, like, your people are talking, but they're actually not as much talking about the thing that you wanted them to talk about. Mhmm. Although, I have read quite a few different things from

from from different from, like, sports magazines and stuff who followed up and, like, a lot of it sounds like excellent and really good conversations are happening between, like, some of these guys and police departments and communities and stuff, and that's not that's not making part of our conversation. Right? Like, Kaepernick has spent a bunch of time with the police and with the military in talking through these things, and part of the the choice he made to kneel as opposed to turn or do something else was was in deference, in his in his mind, in deference to,

the fact that of, that the people did serve and die and that there is great opportunity in The United States, but, like, we're pushing ourselves to be better. That's his perspective on what he's doing versus other things he could have done, like, not face the flag at all. Right? And so, again, I I think you can start to which is largely what we're doing is talking about the method here, But I I think Christians are probably well served by saying, what are what are people actually trying to talk about? And if I can ignore the methods for now and recognize that this is something of value and that people's experience is reflecting what they're talking about, then I think that helps us engage in it differently. Then maybe I don't I don't spend as much time talking about the method, because here's what I'm afraid, is that trying to change methods and thinking like this is the same thing that tries to change people's behavior without having the gospel do it. It just says, well, here's the law, you need to do this differently, and then, like, you know, I I'm not sure you actually gained the thing that you wanted.

I'm not sure you changed hearts. I'm not sure, necessarily, that you changed minds. You just kind of enforced behavior, which is a bit of the opposite of what we're going for, and frankly, of the stuff that the flag represents. And so, do you think it's at least fair to say, like, can I can I try to see whatever's going on in the best possible light and then work from there? Can I check people's intentions first? Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I I I think you can. I I mean, the thing that I have the hardest time with, and and and this is gonna come from, obviously, my experience in life, which does not across the board represent

how everyone lives in this country, and I'm I'm not so foolish to not know that. Right? But, like, how one thing compares to the other is where I have a hard time grasping. Like like, I sometimes I'll run into these dudes where especially people that like to protest, And they do a protest that, like, doesn't actually match up with the thing that they're they're trying to draw attention to. You know? So they're like, hey. You know, we wanna we wanna turn everybody's thoughts towards bicycle safety. People are getting hit on bicycles, and and we need to protest this until this becomes better. I'm gonna strip naked and tie myself to a tree. And I go, what does that have to do with bike? Know, like, I'm not picking it up. You know I'm saying? I'm not understanding. Like, it certainly does draw attention to you and what you're doing,

but, like, how that relays to the to the to the bike thing is where I have a hard time doing it. Right? And so, like, the the the the whole kneeling thing, like, I get it. I I don't know how else you'd manifest that in a a sporting event, you know, to try to tie it in better. But, like, I was confused for the longest time on what exactly we were actually you you know, the whole the whole movement was was trying to do, what it was trying to draw attention to. I just I could not figure it out for any reason because the kneeling doesn't actually represent anything to me, you know, until it takes a bunch of backstory and explaining for it to to to come up. Alright. So the things we got, how do how do we have good conversations here? We're gonna we're gonna be be slow to speak.

We're gonna try to what was it? Quick to listen? Yeah. Yeah. Quick to listen. Try try to let's let's at least start with thinking the best of people. Right? Mhmm. Try to figure out what they're actually trying to to to talk about, and maybe let's engage in that level. And although I think it doesn't mean you can't it doesn't mean you have to completely stay out of of the the method.

I think we are well served by recognizing what people actually care about and recognizing that people don't always don't always express themselves in the best way. Right? Like I have an even a little bit of grace for the way that that it got handled. Yeah. Right? Like like, there's there's I don't know. It's happened a million times in my marriage. Right? Like, I've done something to draw attention to my the fact that I was upset about something, and it really wasn't the core of what my deal was, or I expressed it in such a foolish way because I did not know how to communicate well what I what I was what was happening. Right? And so and then at the time that someone stopped and listened to the the thing that was actually happening, and I it took me thirty minutes of conversation, and I finally got it boiled down and got to say, you know what, baby? The boys are under this. This is the thing. And then we had very productive conversations and resolutions. But, like, if if if both sides of a discussion

no one's willing to sit through and be patient and say, look, I'm gonna give you grace on the method. Can we talk about where this is coming from? And try to get down to that, like, that's where we get kind of our Facebook stuff. And we're talking about for rights, which is it's and you're right. Dan's Dan's right. It's not a rights issue, but, like, we're just grasping at stuff that, like Yeah. You would want to violate rights. You're a bastard. Right? And it's like, this is you're not even talking about what we're talking about. But no no one is is saying, okay. How do we improve this then? What I I haven't walked a mile in your shoes. You know, I I I can't say I can identify with what you're going through. How do how do we fix it? Okay. I understand you're angry.

Help me. Help me help you. Yeah. Right. You know? I I was talking to my daughter the other day, and she's on a a track to become a dentist. And so she has, you know, conversations with people once in a while. And she said, you know, it occurred to her the other day, this isn't the racism thing, but the sexism thing. Every single time she mentions that, everyone assumes she's gonna be a dental hygienist.

Oh. You're gonna be their assistant. Oh, right. And she's like, well, no, I'm gonna, you know, I'm, know, I've scored in the top 2% of the nation. I mean, I've beat everybody, you know, I I'm gonna beat the dentist. Right? Yeah. But even in Africa, we talked about, oh, an assistant. Great. So so which makes me it's not an American thing. It's a people thing. Yeah. You know? It's it's races tend to look down at each other no matter what country you're in. Right. And and a lot of times, men tend to look down at women

no where no matter where you are. It doesn't mean there's right or wrong, but so so how do we fix it? What what what what do they what do they want? What can we do to, improve the situation? Yeah. Yeah. And and and I think that's that's the core of the thing. Right? Like, at some point, your your your daughter can get really upset with people if she wanted to for such for such thinking. Right? Like, you have the, like and it's if we think it's unfair, it's unreasonable to think that, well, you if you're gonna be the lady, you must be the assistant.

Certainly, we're beyond that. But, like, the truth is is that that actually is not likely to change the core of what people think. Right? So, like Right. How do you change the core of what people think? I I don't know that sharing the gospel's that much different. Right? Like, it's it's the the way that you change minds and hearts is that you you tell you say true things and you say it because you love people and you continue to have conversations and you recognize where that meets them and what that looks like in their life. And, like, the the way that we we constantly think of gospel conversations, I don't think there's any reason not to associate that with every other conversation you have because every conversation should be actually filtered through that context. And so can we can we think about, if I wanna change this person's mind, how do I actually do that? And do and can I can I look at it and say, so, like, some people are speaking from ignorance? Like, there's there's just flat out they don't know, and they don't even have the context to know it well. And I know that there's there's an assumption that says, hey, look, we're beyond this. I you know, I feel like we're not we we wouldn't still be having these conversations all the time if we were beyond this in on on both sides of discussion. If people were were dealing with each other with grace and reasonable and saying, look, we still haven't met here. Here's how you can understand what's going on. And, like and I get sometimes it takes sometimes it takes powerful things to jump people over hoops. Like, sometimes we are so blind until the the the light is so bright that you have no choice but to retake stock of what actually is going on around you. And so, like, you know, I I I don't I actually don't mind, if you're finding a way to draw attention that is not violent and that is, like, allowing you to have a conversation that you have,

Whether this is the appropriate time to do it is is a, I think, a worthy question. But, like, it's I don't know. I couldn't ask much more for someone who's saying, look, we need to have a better conversation around this. But, like, it's it's just are are we giving are we trying? Are we giving people the benefit of the doubt here and saying, you're after some you're after something good or you're something that you think I don't understand. Okay. I wanna understand it. Something occurred to me a couple weeks ago. Was talking to a gentleman who who's African American, and he was talking about the racism that that's out there, and and my I tend to, as a white guy, I've never experienced this, I always think when they're talking about, well, you don't know what it's like to get in a car and drive and and be pulled over, you know, you don't know what it's like to fear for your children leaving the house or whatever. And I always tend to think, oh, on. Every time you're in a car, you're not pulled over, you know. Every time you're you're, you know, in a store, people don't accuse you of shoplifting. I mean, that doesn't happen every time. So I so I I go to the extreme. Right. And I think you need you need to lighten up. But as I'm having this conversation with this guy, and it was a very good conversation, it suddenly occurred to me, thought, wait a minute.

How many times let's say my dad throws forks at me. How many forks does he have to throw at me in my lifetime before he said my dad throws forks? Right. Maybe two, three, you know? I mean, don't know. My dad's a fork, man. I mean, exactly. I mean, you're whatever it is, you know? And and I thought, well, how many times does he have to be pulled over unnecessarily to think or have his friends pulled over or or or whatever to to to at least it's it becomes in the back of your mind. Right. I've I've never allowed myself to really go there. Yeah. That's true. And how many times would I put up with that? You know what I'm saying? Even the one time, I'd be like, this was wrong. This was just flat wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's true. It's like, you're right. To to be able to defend where we're at, I it's it's easy to paint things with broad brush, and you're right. Like, say, hey. This happens to you. It doesn't happen to you all the time. You're overreacting. Yeah. Grow up. That's never happened to you. Yeah. Right? And and so, like, regardless Maybe this happened twice. Yeah. Is that right. And and twice isn't that enough? Like, yeah. Yeah. It's never happened to me. Right. And and, actually, so here's that's the other that's a good point is that, like, I see it from

so my lens is it doesn't happen to me. And so that's how I look at all interactions is I don't have any reason to think that it happens to everybody else because it doesn't happen to me. I I get that other people's circumstances are different, but I don't know what it's like for that to be the case. Mhmm. And so, like, really, everybody who says this is a problem is untrustworthy? Come on. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that doesn't even make any sense. Like, everybody is is is trying to perpetuate a lie. Even even look at the the the football teams where, like, they all decided to stay in the locker room. Alright? And I get again, whether I agree with the the premise of that or not, are you telling me everybody on that team, like, is is blind to this? Guys who who who are constantly they've they've lived together. They're serving.

They're they're they're working together. They're fighting together in in a in a football game. They're spending, like, nine months out of the year together, and they look at each other and say, you know what? Like, we're all blind to this thing. Like, I feel like they'd get it way better than I would. And so and so I I think to myself, like, sometimes you have to humble your own circumstances and say, am I willing for something that I believe to be true to to that that their their situation is also true. Right? It doesn't make mine false because that's that's I can only be held to what I see. Am I able to listen to someone that says, hey. You know what? This is actually what's going on for me. And it doesn't mean that the truth is the truth can't just be one thing. It's just like it actually is happening differently for these people. Oh, sorry. This particular groups of folks or these situations and circumstances. And so, like, how can I look at the at such actually, I feel this way too when I look at people on, even from a political spectrum? Right? If I look at 50% of the of the nation and they believe politically something different than me, like, I do I really believe that everybody's nuts? Right? That everyone thinks about things through the wrong lens? Or is it possible that because of we agree on certain things that they value, they're just trying to solve problems differently? Or they don't believe something. There's just a point in time where because I believe this, my trajectory went this way and their trajectory went a different way. And so, like, the truth is is that, like, I I don't wanna be conciliatory just for for for sake there, even though Paul says to try to keep peace. But I I keep peace by saying, alright. We're we can agree on this. Let's at least now we can have good conversations about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And and I don't know how how do you help the situation. We'll go back to my dad. Yep. Once it's ingrained in my head, my dad throws forks, how do there's no what can he possibly do to get that out of my head? Yeah. Right. He can't. I mean Six months, you're like, well, staved off the fork throwing, but I'm not willing to take it off his claim to fame. Yeah. He's he's next time. He'll probably get me next time. Yeah. I know. I see his hand near that fork. Right. I mean yeah. It it's hard to get the a trust back that says, hey. I'm no longer a fork thrower. Yeah. Well, maybe you are still. And the thing is, yeah, some people are fork throwers. True. You you know, I mean, there are racists out there. Right. I'm not one, I I would like to say, but how does someone I am a no. See, that's the thing is though, is like, I'm an ignorant one. Right? Like, I'm I'm a I'm I'm I'm also racist by proxy of the things that I don't that I don't know well. Like, it's not on purpose, you know, but, like, like, some of the things that that you have to go through being a black man in America, I will never know that. And, like, some of that's on me for not taking the time to try to figure it out, So so I do think there's a bad you know, it's easy to lump terms here. Right? Like,

is that is it really the same? Like, I know that you we say that to try to get people to understand that, like, you there's actually might be a blindness to you. Right? There might be things that I actually I don't know the difference. Maybe that's what I am saying. Like, there's a blindness to me. Yeah. And, like, almost to the point where I'm so blind on it that I don't even know where it is. Right. Because if I did, it wouldn't continue to be a blindness. So you're right understanding in that. So so that's where I would say we're not furthering the conversation by by putting you in the same category as a guy who actually hates people of a different color. Sure. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I I get it. That's, that's another thing where it's the efficiency or good use of the term. It's like, hey, you we're trying to scare people into saying, you you have latent tendencies of which in the right circumstances, you would hate a man because his skin color is different than yours. Right? And so, like, that that that is a falsehood that is being perpetuated under a sense of of, it's distinct from blindness. Right? It's distinct from ignorance and we're we need to have humility that says, I don't know everybody's circumstances. I wanna learn. I'm willing to learn and recognize if I have blindnesses because why would I wanna stay blind? Yeah. Right? But that's different

than lumping in categories of people that actually, like, actively hate other people. And I get that the impact to someone on the other side of that won't feel like that, but if you want a further conversation, I think you need to be you're asking people to make nuances. You need to make nuances on the other side and say this is not actually the same person. It's not the same group. It's not the same circumstance that I'm saying, hatred versus versus blindness. Especially people who are saying, look, fine, if I'm blind because I'm never in that circumstance or that situation or this societal perspective, then I wanna know the difference. Yeah. And so and frankly, think that's where some of the conversation is halting is because unless you agree that I'm a race unless I agree that I'm a racist because

I don't I have potential blindness in my life, we're not willing to have a conversation with me. And that's stupid. That's really false. Right? Like, I would be sitting at your door saying, if I'm blind, I wanna know it, and I'd like to be able to to to have a conversation and figure out how do I help? How do I fix it? How do we actually understand each other and so we understand where we're coming from? And if you're not willing to have that unless I agree to a term that is specifically and intentionally inflammatory so that you feel like you've dominated the conversation on me, like, you're not that's actually not trying to help.

And so, like, a lot of this comes down to not necessarily prerogative, but effectiveness. Like, yeah, you can you have the right to choose to to do this in whichever way you want. I actually have qualms as to whether it's effective. Whether you're actually getting talking about the thing that you wanna talk about, whether you're getting the message across that you want to or and the the the some of the stuff that the president says, like, falls in that same category. Right? Like, fine, you you won a tit for tat with somebody in in your perspective, but, like, you actually didn't further the ball on the thing that you wanted to to accomplish here. And and so, like, a lot of that breeds this lack of control and it's a lack of saying, do I wanna solve do I win an argument or do I wanna solve a problem? Yeah. I win a lot of arguments with my wife, but I find that, like, it'll eventually catch up to me that I I won those because I'm quicker, because I speak a little bit louder and a little bit faster,

and my and I I know how to use words well. And I don't I don't solve problems sometimes as I win arguments, and I feel that three months down the road when I didn't do it right. And so I would broad question, and this probably goes back to our principles, how do Christian deals with something. Are you trying to solve a problem or are you trying to win an argument? And do you know the difference? What and you won't know whether that is until you've actually determined what is the actual problem that's on at play here as opposed to do I just not like what this person is doing? Because that's not really that's not, like, a long term problem. It's just a preference. Once again, though, this is what I hate about these things. It's, like, I'm I just don't I'm not a deemed thinker. Right? And so I and I, like, I know that about me, and, like, I wish it wasn't the case, but it is. And so, like, I can literally go through Facebook and think that that there's 10 different reasons for this discussion. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a First Amendment thing. It's a rights thing. It's a it's a racial thing. It's a it's a respecting the soldiers thing. And and like, I'm reading the whole thing going, I have no idea what this thing is. Even if I wanted to know. Even if I put thought into it. Like, I'd just be like, I literally cannot fish out. What the core issue is What the core of this thing is. Like, I, you know, I I think I could answer some questions if you went by, like, a a 10 question deal. I could probably say yes, no, and maybe. But, like, at at at the end of it, where after we've talked about it, seems like pretty reasonable to me that that you know what the issue is. But, like, the way that information is presented to me, I just sit there and go, I don't have no idea what's going on here. I don't know what we're really what am I inflamed about? Am I mad? This guy's mad. Would he be mad for a ridiculous reason? No. That doesn't make any sense. People get mad for good reasons. Okay. So this guy's gotta have some weight. And then I start handing out weight to people merely because they were upset, because I think, why would everyone get this fired up for no reason at all? And it turns out some of them just do. There was a there's an article in the Christian Post that says failed doomsday prophecies could lead people to reject Jesus Christ. Mike, do you believe that?

No. Dan? I I suppose if they don't know him in the first place and they assume that represents Christianity, yeah. Mike?

Dan says you're dumb. Actually, after hearing Dan speak, I'm with Dan. Someone offered another opinion. I'll agree with that one. I'm inflamed as well. So they are you know, here's I don't care. Who writes an article about this? I don't care. It's a bunch of lunatics. A bunch of idiots that are saying, god god says no, you're gonna know the thing. They're like, I'm gonna know the thing. And so, like, then they get them more press and they write about them, they're like, hey, big surprise, they were wrong again. Because they tried to say a thing about a thing, god said, you don't know the thing. Question, do we have a do we have a responsibility to defend core doctrine against this Nope. And how forcefully? Nope. Nope. Zero. Zero. Mike says no. Yeah. It'd like here's the thing. It'd be like my dog going over and pooping into the neighbor's grass and me trying to defend my dog's behavior. Here's the thing. He's a dog. He can't he he's just gonna do untrustworthy bad things. And people that try to predict the end of the world are exactly in that category.

Right. You know that. But, like, a broad population who don't love to follow Jesus or know anything about the Bible do not know that. Yeah. That but I didn't see I no one grabbed onto it. I mean, like, there might have been 10 idiots that are willing to grab on the next fancy train coming by but, like, I didn't see 10,000 people selling their crap moving to Utah. No. That's true. Nobody believes this. So, you know, I'm gonna actually, that's not true. Know a few people that do. Right? So so Wait. Wait. Personally? Yeah. Wait. They were down for the end of the world this time around. Yes. Oh, man. Did you call them? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We talked about it. We did. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about it. So, Dan, what do you think? Responsibility

to to, I don't know, to advertise against this thing or or fight this doctrine in a public sphere? I wanna say yes. That that we should. I mean, like, any false teacher, you wanna say, hey, by the way, be careful with this stuff.

That's my initial thought. I mean, aren't you just giving it weight by giving it attention? It already has attention. No. No. Yeah. So so, again, it's it's in Hold on. Here's the thing, Ben. You read a lot of weird crap. And so when you come at me and be like, there was an article written, it could be by, like, tomsanders.com No. No. And you just happen to follow this

this weird hippie on the Left Coast that makes all these things up. No. No. No. It was it was this was carried every major news network carried this. I didn't hear anything. USA Network carried it. USA Today, CNN, at least on their websites, everyone had a pseudo front page story on it. I have got see, here's the thing. I I I mean, I didn't hear anything about it until you just brought it up. You get you get your news from the bathroom stall. Well From whatever some guy scratched in there, you're like, oh, I see I see Heather's falling on hard times again. So here's what I'm saying is the guy the the regular Joe's that I hang out with don't give these news no way. It's you it's it's you Flanders that are trying to spin this thing in a tornado and make it bigger than it is. Nah. Yeah. I mean, I hear what you're saying. So, like, I would say that there is there is a contagion of office folk who who, like, don't do anything but waste time at work and not work and read news and take this kind of thing in. Here's the thing. I'm the Jesus resource at my workplace. Not one person came to ask me about this. Okay. Not one person. Yeah. Actually, I mean, no one came to ask me about it either. Dan? It's Christians talking Did about you get any phone calls? No. No. No. That's true. I tried to buy a camper. Wait, in response to this? No. But but the timing, you know, hey. I might as well live long. Maybe. I don't know why they're selling stuff. Okay. So you fall victim to the same thing I do. Just because someone said it, obviously, it's worth saying. And I'm saying these fellas literally had they had less backing than the end of the world, the guys that that were six years ago. Those dudes were picking up steam. They had a bus and a billboard. I mean, were moving and that's inertia. Yeah. Yeah. They had something. These dudes I mean, they're first of all, if you're gonna make it into the world projection,

you've already had a fail somebody's had a fail run-in the last six years. It's too soon. You know I'm saying? People they don't forget that stuff. When you claim it's the end of the world, you get a bunch of people on board, and then it doesn't go well, they're like, you know what? I've seen this train come around before. I ain't getting all this time. Like, what what is there to gain from that? What why why would you put a date out? Is it just pride, ego, you know, arrogance of, hey, I'll get my name mentioned or Yeah. So I mean, what? I mean, literally three seconds of fame. I guess Bill was like

You know, I mean, what what really is gonna happen? Yeah. So, actually, that's true. Let's say you were correct. Like, the soon as the soonest the thing happened, there was no glory to you ever again. No. I'm so glad I sold my stuff. Know what mean? Riddos. Is that the sound of the the end of the world, Mike? Yeah. The Lord he don't do the trumpet thing like the Bible says. If we're just gonna ignore most get you. We're gonna ignore most of the Bible, God just goes with a straight inferno out of a flamethrower or the TV that that broadcast has been lost. So so here's the thing. It's like, again, if I'm gonna I'm gonna follow kind of our rules of conversation when it comes to a debate, is is, like, I do believe that there are people who

believe very firmly that God is that God can arrange things in the universe to do as he pleases. They believe in in a strong sovereignty of God and that the heavens and earth reveal things about God, Paul style. And so it is quite possible that he would line things up to reveal things to his people. And so and I think they look for those things because they feel like they are faithfully listening or watching for the things that God has had us watch for. If God is going to speak, I would be a fool to shut the priest up. Right? Though, what is it, both Micah and Amos style. Quit shutting up the priests. And so, I think there are people who are attempting to be faithful.

I think the people that are that are then trying to track those down feel like they have a responsibility to share it with others so that we can, with with a core towards evangelism. Now here's the thing. I don't see a lot of that happening. For for the for the folks that actually know it, do I have they actually done everything that would reflect, look. I just know the world's gonna end. And so I'm I'm tearing clothes and yelling in the streets. I I you don't find this guy desperately cleaning door to door in the middle of a mall and just begging and pleading and crying and being like, please repent. No, Jesus Christ. Follow me in what is joy to come. Yeah. Like, that's you don't that these are none of the posture that you see from people that are predicting the environment. Right. They're still paying rent. Like, here's the deal. Here here's the thing that you should re respect about the Herald Camping group of folks, not Camping himself, but, like, the followers. Like, those dudes did actually sell stuff. Now, some of them bought nice cars, so that's false. I guess that's a false way of living the world. But, like, there are there's there's, like, a, you know, a a contingent of those people who bought into it, sold everything they had, and and, like, committed their life to telling people about Jesus. And I love that. You were just led freaking astray by a bad date. So but here's the thing. It's the thing that, like, like, if we're gonna have a reasonable conversation about this, let's say, look, you you say that, like, they're pursuing,

you know, a truth about Christ and and God because of their high view of God's sovereignty and the way he's organized nature. Right? Right? Where did you get the where did you get the idea in the first place that he's a god to have high sovereignty and that he has organized nature? Scripture. Okay. So that here's what I'm saying. If that exact same scripture says you ain't gonna know, I don't know how you come out with this. Yeah. So so here's, my basic summation of how people get to these types of things is is the stringing of they have a high here's the deal. They they have a high value of scripture,

but they they have a low they have a propensity to use it in ways that otherwise fit the things that they think, which everyone's guilty of. Right. But, like, they're they they reject, primarily context. Right? They refuse to have things sit in context. They, like they read looking for something and then it jumps out and they're like, yes. And then when they see I like connecting similar things. If God acts one way here, do I expect him to act act consistently, especially when words or things are true? And how can those two things inform each other? Yes. I think you should do that. There is a contextual benefit to that. But like a saying, these are talking about the exact same things and, and ignoring that it would neither would mean anything to the people it was written to, like, that's blindness. And so if there's a self centeredness to it that says, the Bible is exclusively for me at my time for my personal benefit and ignores the fact that there are, like, your church family, your brothers and sisters throughout time benefited from the scripture,

how did this otherwise impact them? So it's a bad it's bad exegesis. It's bad context, but it is a high value of scripture. This is where you gotta be careful. Right? Because, like, I wanna write those guys off and I say, you just you you're disregarding the Bible. I don't know. I have not seen a guy to a man explain to me how Jesus says you are not gonna know it and they still say we will know it. I there in fact, I was in, that Many Hands for Haiti thrift store today and there's a book there that says 99 Reasons Why You Will Not Know When the End of the World Is. And I'm like, this book is too long. It's too long. Jesus and so here's what I thought. I thought, I'm gonna love this, man. If I open this up and it says chapter one, Jesus said you won't know. Chapter two, Jesus said you won't know. Chapter three, I thought, this is gonna be great. He did not do that. He actually produced 99 Reasons and I was disappointed. I feel like he didn't do it right. But, like, I I've not seen a man be able to describe that. But, like, that's generally what's happening is we're saying, have a high value scripture. I trust it. I believe it. That's why they're willing to say, that's why

I can believe this date is because I believe scripture. The problem is is that they're reading scripture poorly. They're just yanking it out of context. They're looking for things, and they're stringing things together. And we talked about this, actually, you know, we were we were studying through Micah, with a group of fellas. And, like, when it came to the the Jews trying to identify the Messiah,

they they were willing to find this answer in however they had to stretch it so that they could have a Messiah that they wanted. They wanted someone who'd kick tail and who would help them overthrow Greece or overthrow Rome or, like, liberate them and give them their homeland back. Like, because they wanted that so bad, they were willing to stretch some of the prophetic things that undergirded their understanding of who the Messiah was. And so they accepted people they shouldn't have. Right? Like, the Hasmonean, revolt comes from people who, like, took agreed to someone who didn't come from the right lineage. He was he served as a priest and king. He was neither from the line of David or from the who who's the who's the priest? Melchizedek. No. No. No. No. You had to be from the priestly line of

anyway, gone completely. Anyway, he wasn't. He he didn't qualify. There's no way he could have been this messiah figure. Zadok. Zadok. That's right. He had been his he had he had to come from the lineage of Zadok. And so, like, they I knew it had a z in there. You shove me aside. You didn't even give me any grace in there. I did. Those are two weird names, and I came out with it. I knew you would come up with a good A good job, Mike is in order. Good job, Mike. So But so so that's the thing is they were looking for something and they wanted it to be, and so they were like, anything that looked close to that, they were willing to accept. And so I think I think that's what a lot of is happening. But, again, if I I'm trying to be gracious in the conversation. I think I think most of these fellows do believe in Scripture and that because they believe in it, they're willing to put dates on things with confidence because they think Scripture is talking specifically how many outside things you have to bring into that I know. To to make that true. I know. And, I mean, that's why I don't believe it. I'm just I mean, so many, Ben. So many outside things. And then in a consistency of God thing where I say God tells truth, except for that one time when he says you ain't gonna know the end of the world,

I don't even know how you'd come close to marrying that together. You know what? I did see someone try to, I did see someone try to tie that oh oh, actually, you know what they'll do, now I remember this? They try to tie it back to the temple, which is crazy cool because most of that Matthew 24, for example, is about the temple. I think there's a break there that talks about when the second coming is, and they actually just won't relinquish it and they say, look, this is actually still talking about the temple.

And then I think, well, God gave, like, really clear signs as when the temple was gonna be destroyed, so, you know, they'll say, he's just being hyper specific, so you won't know the exact time, it's just kind of this trajectory. And so, where most people, you can't get them to agree that some of that is the temple. Most of the end of the world guys would say, that's all temple. Was was there a it was all just a numbers game, like a generations and numbers thing, not like the hurricanes or the whatever that was sparking this on. Right? Yeah. Yeah. They tied it had to do with, like, the alignment of the stars. It it was tied to Revelation 12

where, like, the you see something in the womb of of a constellation. It was it's a bad exegesis of Revelation 12. Like, the whole thing's bad. It's not good. But, like, I guess, here's the thing is is know who you're dealing with. Right? I could write these guys off and say, look, you just you don't know you don't know scripture. And the truth is, they're just I I feel like the I know that they're reading scripture in an unhealthy and in an inconsistent way. Well, here's the thing. It's it's like, the truth of the matter is, like, I've believed things that are wrong before. Right? Like, it's not like that's a the new concept and there's not plenty of grace to be had for that. Right? But if I catch you doing this again, you are literally on purpose rebelling against scripture. No. That's true. You're gonna kneel next time they talk. That's right. Yeah. You're doing you're doing this on purpose. Okay.

Hey. So before we before we run out of time, we wanted to talk about interacting with sheep. So when when people are otherwise acting in a certain way that is not healthy for them, there seems to be two different ways of responding, and these are I I get that there's probably nuances here. Right? But one is to say,

I can only help people who want help. Right? People who say, hey, how I'm I wanna turn from this life or turn from the decisions that I'm making. Will you help me? And then we get to jump in and do it. Or if someone who's is, like, is, I mean I mean, bent on destroying their lives do is do as a shepherd or someone who cares for people who wants to save them, like, do you walk that with them and try to drag them out of the fire? Because those are two different reactions. One is that they're actually motivated and you help them, and the other is they're motivated to do the wrong thing and you're gonna force the matter and try to help and try to do it for them. I've had very positive,

loving experiences with number one. I've almost literally been destroyed by number two. Mhmm. I like number one.

I don't know if that's holy. I just know that I like So to clear so number one was the coming alongside someone who says, I want things to change, and helping them to do that. That's right. And number two is, like, you've almost literally been destroyed by trying to save someone who didn't appear to wanna be saved. Yes, right. I mean, I think if you put it in the context of discipleship, I've had a long standing principle I live by, I only disciple those who want to be discipled, who are open to

discipling. To being discipled. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You can't teach a non learner. So, there might be a multiple reasons why they won't learn from you. They don't respect you. They think you're an idiot. They just don't care because it's they'd rather do whatever than Jesus.

Yeah. I mean, there's just multiple. It doesn't matter what it is, but but when when you see that they're not interested in learning it, then I don't waste my time. Yeah. Because there's others who do want to know. Right? But then I think, gosh, I wonder how many people I've let slip because I just didn't try harder

or or or learn their their, language, so to speak. Yes. You know, and put more of my effort into it. And I I

think that's the core of the question, right, is, like, let's say you you, like, you start with somebody and things are moving on the right path and, like, they show some resistance and say, look, I don't I don't really wanna do this anymore. And, like, you know that's not the right decision and you know that they're prone to not thinking in the right mind and to what to what extent do I allow them, to I basically elevate that and say, well, they've made a reasoned decision and that's what they're gonna do. Like, how hard do you fight to try to keep someone and say, look, the acid does this wrong. I will not give up on you. That's wrong. You were thinking about this the wrong way. Well, I so I I think it has to I don't think they have to be I don't think the whole pack has to travel together. Right? Like, you can still maintain connection and relationship

regardless of which of those two situations are, whether they want your help or whether they don't. Mhmm. Right? But like, the thing is, is like, you can't invest in a non decision. You can't invest in a poor choice. And and but you can I I mean, you know how you know how people are? Right? Like, if they want to follow Jesus, they do. Like, their their their mouths tell lies and their actions tell truth. And so, like, if if people want to follow Jesus and they want your help doing it, you'll know that. They act like they wanna do it. Right? They still screw up and they still sin and they still struggle, but they come back and they're like, I don't want this to be me anymore. This is not what I want. I wanna follow Jesus. And you're like, I'm in. I'm going nowhere. Right? And the same person will say, look, I you know, you can talk to the same person and say, look, you you Jesus is the answer for these situations. And they're like, yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I'm just I'm I'm not interested in in going life that route. And and your answer is, I'll be there when you are. I can't help you go the other way. I can't help you run from Jesus. I'm not gonna help you do that. Right. But I'll be here when you're ready to to, you know, to meet him, because my advice is not gonna change. My love for you is gonna stay the same. I'm just I'm just act I'm not gonna help you go away from Jesus. I'll help you come closer to him always. I will love you either way, but I certainly will not be take you know, I will not abide in you leaving, and so I will just stay here.

I I think I if of all because the problem is is if you if you're pulling people out of the fire, the problem is is, like, sometimes, now you gotta follow that you gotta follow that fire in, you know. And then you go up and you go down, and you go up and you go down, you go up and go down. And what you really did is exactly what Dan said is, like, you took all the effectiveness that you had to help anybody and literally did nothing for months, except for cause yourself pain, get the person that you're trying to help nowhere, and then and and bring no glory to God in any way. You had no God honoring conversations and all of that. Because I can still love you without following you, as you run away from Jesus.

You can just say, I I will be right here. I still think this is the right route for you, and and I still love you. Tell me when you're ready, and we'll go that way. So it's so there's a difference, I suppose, to from planting a seed and then, like,

hovering over at night every day and saying, grow, damn it. Right? Like I mean, here's the thing. You ever seen that work? Like, I mean I mean, honestly. Like, I mean, we you can program all this stuff that you want to, but the truth of the matter is until someone makes the decision that that that this is what they wanna do, your coaxing and prodding is is it's just it doesn't work. You could you could literally plant the seed. I think that's what God designed us to do, obviously. I mean, that's there's a scriptural basis to that. There's to tell them the good news about Jesus Christ. You can't make them take it, and you can't make them follow it, and you can't make them want it. That's a Holy Spirit deal. I could pray on it, and so you could certainly do that. That's the love and the connection part where you're still praying for him, and you still got the god of the universe on that situation. You know? But, like, what are you gonna physically do? Hole him up? Lock him in a room? I mean, it's just so put put it take it out of sharing of good news and put it into the I don't know. Something something more tangible. Right? Someone's someone's bent on harming themselves. Like, don't we step in. Right? Hey. I'm gonna hurt myself. I'm thinking about harming myself. Someone steps in. Someone goes over there and says, look. I will physically restrain you to keep you from doing this thing. Someone wants to crawl into hell. We're not we don't do the same thing?

Hold on. Hold on. I'm thinking. I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, but I I just Yeah. I'm toying within my mind. Well, in in both situations, they they they have the ultimate choice, you know? And that that's what hurts. That's what makes it so painful is you want more than anything for them to not hurt themselves or not,

go on a road that will lead to their own destruction, spiritually, but but they have to make those choices. They have to take those steps. Because if you pick them up and carry them over to the right path, they're just gonna jump off it and go back where they're more comfortable. Right. And because they got there on your back anyway. You know what I'm saying? They don't even know how to get there on their own. And and so, like, they'll jump off they'll jump off yours and then want to come back and still have no idea how to get there. Mean, I got there on the back of Jesus, but I climbed there.

Right? Like like I said, yeah, okay, yeah, go ahead and pick me up. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas somebody else, like, if I drug them out of there. Yeah. And so so is there not a concept of I I I don't know why I have it in my mind and I don't know that I can think of any examples that are that are nagging at me, but, like, I just feel like I've I've heard stories of people people just say, look, I'm not gonna give up on you. But is it is the method of not giving up then on them not saying, hey, I'm gonna do this for you and drag you along the way, you know, I'm a go get you and put you into school. Make sure you go there. I'm gonna show up at your house every day, blah blah blah. Like, some sort of conviction that says, I care enough about you that I'm gonna keep doing this until you bend to my will. Is that not appropriate then? Well, I think that's I think that's, you know, of a lot of the arguments that we have, especially, you know, in our culture and nowadays, is is what exactly love means. Right? And does love mean giving you the things that that we I know will destroy you, or does love mean keeping the things from you that I know will destroy you? And some of that is true with with, you know, the things that that we're talking about. I get it. I I I I know what you're saying. It's like it does it seems a little bit like, if we're God's people and God carries most of my burdens because he's my God, then I should be freed up to take on some extra ones, which is following some people

in some places that they don't wanna go. But the thing is, it's like, the best you're gonna do is drag them on the other side of the fence and have them turn and go back as soon as you turn your back on them. And that that really it was not a game at all. Yeah. They know that you love them from the other side of the fence. They're just not interested in standing next to you. And and and you dragging them over there didn't prove anything. Can you prove you love somebody without doing that? I think that you probably can. And I think it's I'm I'm trying to think of a scriptural example, and and maybe I'm missing an obvious one, but I'm thinking, like, the the the the ones that show up in scripture are like Ananias going to Saul, what are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized, watching what you're saying. He's like, okay. What if he said, no? I don't think so. Right. We don't have that example. Right.

We don't know what he would have said next. You know, actually, Dan, that's that actually comes to that conversation that I tried to have a couple, three weeks ago, and I just I presented it very poorly. Like, what the level of of of of of what a Christian is, like, a Uh-huh. Christians define it. You know? And if someone says, hey, you know, rise up and be baptized, they're like, no. I don't think so. They're like, what are you doing here? This doesn't count. You're not this is not what what God's asking you to sign up for. Jesus says, you know, follow me, and you're like, yeah, you know. I'm looking at wafers. I mean, can you imagine the look on Paul's face? That Yeah. Man's really gotten beaten within inches of his life multiple times. Someone walk up and be like, yeah. I don't know about this baptism thing. I mean, I just cannot imagine the look at this man's eyes like, you gots to be kidding me. I've not seen it. What that my my main thought on this when you were talking about this earlier was, is, like, I've not seen the drag somebody through bear any fruit ever.

I've I've not seen it. And so I can't say that that that doesn't happen. I've personally never seen it. I've seen people surrender themselves to Jesus Christ, and and and and it produces fruit that I didn't even know existed, you know. But I've never seen human to human dragging a guy produce lasting delicious fruit that sustains. I've just not seen it. So so if we if see if we can tie this back into,

the parable of the, of the sower, right, or the seeds. So if we look at there's not really a call to stop throwing seeds. Right? Like, you're always chucking seeds. You happy about it. And you you can cook should keep chucking seeds in the same field.

Right? It's it's the field itself that otherwise determines their reaction to the kingdom. It may or may not bear fruit, but, like, we we jolly happy and along, chucking seeds, and so that doesn't mean I go into the field, I start adding quick lime. Right? It doesn't mean I go into the field and I start kinda rooting stuff up and saying, here's how you're gonna straighten out your field so when I throw seeds in, it's gonna be better. Right? So I suppose it is a it is a relentless optimism

of connection, of presence, and of seed throwing. Mhmm. Right? We're gonna keep coming by. However, it is ultimately it's it's it's it's not my soil to to to tend.

It's how people are gonna react to it, how they're react to it. So I suppose that means maybe my not giving up on you is maybe I keep texting. Maybe I keep calling. Maybe I keep you know, you you don't wanna hear anything about me from Jesus. I still say, hey, maybe let's have coffee. Right? Be because, like, those are the things that I can do. I can't book you a room in a rehab. I can't I can't say, I set up your baptism for next Tuesday. These are things that I can't do for you.

But I can still be, smiling and throwing seeds and and hanging around, and that is probably my level of of right persistence. So it's not to say, you either you either come to Jesus when I want you to and the way I want you to, otherwise, I bail. That's not the answer. You can be the guy that said, I will I will, I will persist in your life until the until death takes me. The question is what your persistent looks like, and it's and it's largely

a presence and an and an ever ever flowing outpouring of good news around someone in hopes that that soil changes. Yeah. I think it's I I think if if if you had to draw it down too, I think it's it's connection and love. Right? Like, it allows me to continue to love love a person even though they make absolutely terrible decisions. It is you know, there's something that allows their phone their name to come up on my phone and go, I'll take that phone call, opposed to, oh, sweet Moses, what is this bringing? This could literally be anything.

You know? And so, like, when you when you disassociate with having to follow it, that, you know, they're they're run from God or they're run through the rocky soil to keep with it. Right? Like, I don't have to travel the rocky soil to know it's rocky. Right? Like, I stand on the soil that God provided me and go, I'll stay right here. When you're tired of doing the rocky soil, this is where I'll be. I'll take your phone calls from the rocky soil. I'll listen to your problems in the rocky soil. I'll offer the solution through the gospel through the rocky soil, but the truth of the matter is, I'm not following you in there. I I'm not going to do that. If you need a ride out of the rocky soil, I'll come get you. You know, but, like, there's no reason for me to camp three days there and and hang out there with you and act like I think this is doing any good. Because me moving to the rocky soil, that that didn't didn't help anybody. It's you moving out that we're going for, not me coming in. Right. And like I like I said, like, I've I've done this meta I've done this, you know, actually, you know, followed people and and and, like, when you're trying to drag them and you're trying to make them own something that they don't believe, when you're trying to get them a faith in Jesus Christ, that they're they don't it's not like it doesn't work for them. It's not like Jesus Christ doesn't work for some people. It works for all people. Right? But, like, you actually have to follow Jesus to do that, and if you don't trust Jesus, you won't do it, and so, like, all you can say is, like, here's what I know about Jesus through my life, through the lives of people that I know, and through the scripture. This is what I know about Christ. And, like, if that's not enough to get him moving, then all you can do is pray that the Holy Spirit puts some puts it in their head that that was enough to get him moving. Because following him into the rocky soil, I mean, seriously, what did that do you?

It didn't do you any good at all. Right. So no that really says that you shouldn't do ministry in, like, a strip club or something. Yeah. I don't see the gain. You don't go in there trying to pull people out.

Oh, unless you're after the ladies. So, like, people do that, though. People go in there. Like, there's there's late other ladies that will go in there and intentionally meet. I suppose they're throwing seeds. Yes. That right. Yeah. Yeah. They're not dragging her out. They didn't throw in the back of the car and say, you're done stripping. Yeah. And they're also not like, hey. Let me strip with you. You know, we'll talk while we out there. You know what saying? Like Right. That's rocky soil. That's not what they're doing. You know I'm saying? They're plant they're saying, look. There's there's there's other soil. There's good soil over here. I I used to live in the Rockies. I know what you're saying. But there's good soil over here. You know, let's talk about it sometime. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But they ain't they ain't bumping heroin with them in the back and be like, I then now so you understand that I've been through what you've been through. Right? That's just not the way it works. Right. Right. We don't we're not we're not the we're not the police. We don't undercover things in that way. We're, like, we have to be bought as one of you so that we have influence as one of you. No. We feel like the the the good news in itself is is implicitly attractive. It is not necessary for us to, like, mimic your circumstances to otherwise communicate such a thing. No. Because we believe that God is above all circumstances, so At some feet at some point, you you shake the dust off your feet and move on. Pound in.

What? Was that it? Well, that's what Jesus said. Go into a village, they're not listening. You shake off the dust the dust off your feet and move on. You go on. I mean, are you saying that the village is a metaphor for for the dude? Well, sure. Yeah. Yeah. There'll be there'll be some who just aren't receptive and and it's like, move on, go on to the next village. And here's the thing, is like, the truth of matter is, if if you apply that principle, it doesn't mean that you still can't care for them and hope that they do Oh, sure. Want to know Jesus. Right? Yeah. Like, you literally just say, look, I'm not gonna stand in this rocky soil. You know? I got other good soil to go look at and I gotta throw some more stuff at some more rocks and and, you know, I it just what what my experience with this was is, like, with certain people, like, if you get a gang of folks following them, then the devil got exactly what he wanted. He took six people off the trail of speaking words for Jesus while they were following a guy through rocky soil. And, like, it's heartbreaking to turn around and leave him there, but the truth of the matter is, God has all kinds of things for you to do. And so, like, when when you decide that you're gonna live in that rocky soil and try to drag a guy out of it, you you literally can't do anything over here anymore. You there's nothing. You can't you you end up in one alone desolate island, you know, trying to talk to one guy, and they could put you in a runaround for probably three, four, five, ten, fifteen years. You spent your whole life chasing after this one thing and missed out on the joy, glory, and and the ability to talk to anyone else about the gospel because you were intent on living in the Rockies.

I just I just I don't see the fruit. And here's the thing, is I'm willing to pray about that and be really wrong about it, if that's the deal. But I I I just I haven't seen any fruit come out of dragging people out to rocky soil. Alright. Hey. If got thoughts on that, shoot us an email, [email protected] or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. It's at life in the path, and we'd be glad to I don't know. We we we crack open the Twitter box, I don't know, twice a year. So, know, you wanna have a conversation. Shoot. I I don't know. Even old Pete's giving up on us. Yeah. Sorry. Hey, Pete. Maybe you you we said something offensive to Calvinism earlier. You can you can say something about that.

You know you know we're wrong. We're blind, But the Lord made me that way. Anyway, you bring that up, then we can we can discuss it on the Twitter. Also, hey, if you haven't yet, and odds are you haven't, you you go you can sign up or subscribe on YouTube. We're actually real close to a thousand a thousand subscribers. We're, like, eight eighty something, and only maybe a 180,000 views or so away from a million. So that'll be exciting. Share it with friends. Did they give you something if you get a million views, or is that, like, not a big deal? I think an email. Really? Yeah. Congratulations on your perseverance. Well, I mean, we should print that out and frame it or something. Yeah. Yeah. We'll put it next to the thrift store priest. Yeah. As if it's a certificate for him. Although it's proportionately unwise. You know what saying? Like, you got a million hits on YouTube. It's like, how many Facebook subscribers? Four hundred fifty? Four hundred fifty.

Yeah. Right on. We gotta get some more. Hey, man. Go like the Facebook page. Yeah. Why don't you go do that? It doesn't we don't actually measure by that or care about it, but, like, I mean, I'd be interested at the least. Yeah. I agree. Mike, you got some people need advice? We got time for, like, one. Okay. Hold on. I wasn't directly prepared for that, but give me two shakes. Okay. I bet I can take something up. Yeah. Here we go. Oh, boy. This is it seems Daisy anyway. Here we go. Dear life from the path.

My 40 year old son signed up with an online dating site. Right? He has a 17 year old son and has never been married. During his initial contact with one woman, she mentioned she had several kids and my son asked if they were all by the same father. She said he was out of line to ask that question. I realize people today think one sexual history shouldn't matter, but doesn't my son have a right to know how many other men he's going to be involved with if he becomes involved with her? Who are you? This is his mom. Okay. Here we go. How does one find out this kind of information relatively soon into the relationship? Waiting until he knows her better seems like a waste of both parties' time if he's not interested in someone who brings several other families into the relationship. Relationships are hard enough when a man brings his family and a woman brings her family together in the marriage. It's harder when the man and woman have exes. Each ex increases the level of difficulty to make the relationship work. Love is a choice, and it would be painful for my son to give up a young lady he really cared for because he found out after a few dates that a future with her involved four or more baby daddies. Oh. Wow. Holy cow. I mean, does your nose constantly go where it doesn't belong? I cannot believe

this is a this is a conversation coming my 40 year old son, how old is this woman? The 60? I mean, totally. 60? Yeah. I think so. Wait. Is that the end? Yeah. That's it. Okay. So I let's let's treat your question with some respect here. Let's assume I can't do it. How do how do you find something a, is that something that, legitimately, you wanna know sooner rather than later, and what is a tactful way to find it out? Well, I tell you what, finger pointer. Here's the thing. It's like, you get all up in this lady's business, like, how many exes you have? You didn't even marry the woman that you produced a son with. You know I'm saying? Like, you That's the first time he's never been married. You don't have an ex because you didn't marry the woman in the first place. People not be good enough for my boy. Doesn't either. He don't have no exes. It's fairly ridiculous. Okay. I'm sorry. Back to legitimately treating her question, Ben. Okay. Is it is it is it a legitimate question that you would wanna know sooner rather than later? And if so, how do you do it?

I I think it is. I mean, I I would wanna know anyway. I mean, how how are you at, you know, being in a relationship? If you had multiple baby daddies, it's like, that won't bode well for me. So here's the thing, is that the issue with that is different here than a potentially a different relationship is that there's evidence that you've otherwise had multiple partners. Yeah. Right? Like, everyone you date somebody who's 40 years old, the chances that they've had you know, they could have ten ten people they dated, they could have two. The only way you know is if you ask. The problem is is that because there are four, you know, four kids or whatever, like, it's harder to to dodge that question. Yeah. I mean, couldn't you just say, look. You know, do the do the

does the kid's father see him very often? Yeah. Is the father in the picture? Yeah. And then, I would hope at that point, she'd be like, well, there's a couple of them. Yeah. My first tour with blah blah blah. For Leonard, blah blah blah. He he's something or others. Yeah. Yeah. So there's I mean, if you've spent any time doing it, I feel like it would be alright. Now to for time, what what do you think? Can you go on a date? Can you go on one date? I would. Or do you just say, look. This is a deal breaker. I need to know this. If if what is that the implication, I suppose, is to say, she says there there's three different dads on these four kids. I ain't even going. Is that the thought?

I mean, yeah. She's basically saying, look, if there's too many baby daddies, then he does not even interested in going on a date. I mean, here's the thing. You're on an online dating service. Just go out once. You know what saying? Like, you don't anybody nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Just go out one time. Ask some questions. Why don't you act like a normal human? Stop like yeah. Tweet it like a chess game where you're gonna outmaneuver it, figure out how to beat King Koopa by jumping three times and shooting the thing. Just go out and say, hey, man. How many baby daddies involved? They'll be like, there's there's there's one. Okay. That's doable. Is he a pretty nice dude? No. He's a jerk face. Well, we can work on that. Okay. No. There's five. I'm out. I ain't even gonna pay for dinner. I'm a leave now. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Just ask a question. And here's the deal. If the first if it's a first the first date doesn't go very well, then the conversation will have never come up, you've avoided something unnecessarily. Yeah. And you know what? And and as long as we're on a train of thought and ways to improve your life, why don't you get yourself a friend and stop talking to your moms and have her write in the newspaper on your behalf,

40 year old dude. Hey, mom. I don't have a sexual partner this year. I'm not dating it. What's wrong with you? Hey. Here's the Let your mom do her crosswords and cat puzzles in peace. I don't think I'd tell mom that. No. Because here's the deal. Regardless of the answer, let's say you end up, marrying this woman or something, like, I just I just don't know that my mom needs to know those types of things about my partner. No. Cleave to cleave to future wife, which means if you have any possibility of being future wife, I don't have to share all the intimate whatever things with you you and my moms. Right. I need a trusted buddy. Yeah. I need to know I need to know those things because I'm marrying this person. But, like, beyond that, I don't think my mom needs a full dossier on whoever I'm marrying. I'd like to talk to your son.

Have him call in. The 17 year old? Yeah. No. No. The 40 year old. Oh. He's probably gonna say, my mom's home from my business. Yeah. I just want a online date without any harassment. She has my password, and she's always trying to hook me up with these crazy chicks who play online dragon games. Alright. Alright. So our final advice is just if she's looking for advice, our advice is tell your son to go ahead and go on a date and then see what he thinks. If it becomes to the point where it seems like it is a necessary question to ask, I would say date two is enough, frankly. Yeah. Well, her question is it would be painful for my son to give up a young lady he really cared for. After one date? Yeah. Here's the thing. One, it's been one date. And two, if you really care for her, I mean, well, your love is like what? You you know, an an inch thick and an inch wide? You know what I'm saying? You're gonna deal with her pastor, ain't you? Yeah. So at the point where that seems like an appropriate part of the conversation, then I would go ahead and have it. But I I I would agree. It seems pretty easy just to say, hey, are there are there there dads in the picture?

I mean, that's pretty easy. It's a simple question. And like, here's the deal. If she's real dodgy about it, then you probably don't wanna continue down this line anyway. You're 40 years old, man. I mean, just ask a quote. What if what if nobody you know, they're gonna tell the whole school? You know, ask. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah. I'm yeah. Secular says, although it might be, quote, painful for your wooss of a son to give someone up after a few dates, he should he should make the effort to get to know the person before asking a question like that one he posed to a complete stranger. I don't you know I mean? I mean, what is this guy? Junior high? Like, when I love her so much. Yeah. I saw her on my profile. She likes LSU. I think I love her mother. Frankly, I don't blame her for being offended because it implied he thought she was promiscuous. Yes. It did. Tell me. It could be true. Yeah. I mean, it could be true. I suppose. Well, right. But there here's the deal. It's an answerable question. There's no reason to it's not hypothetical. Just when it's appropriate to ask, find a tactful way and ask it. Yeah. Here we go. She's gonna get on him. Your son fathered a child with a woman he didn't end up marrying. It happens. So what if the same thing had happened to her but more than once? I mean, that could be a possible story. Points to promiscuity. One would think that as a mature adult, if he had feelings for someone, he would continue the relationship and see where it led. And why are you the one who wrote to ask me this and not your son? Hey, man. Spot on, Abbas. You wanna get him. Hey. She's never fired up. No. She could reasonably say that to almost everybody that writes her. She chose this man to lay on. Yeah. He's he's taking the full bread of years worth of cow tailing advice. Alright. Hey. You've been listening live from the past. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. Hey. The new Tim Timmons album is out. Mike, this Who I am. It's out last week, I thought. Last week. Hey. It's a new kid's album.

What's that what's the what's the song? Surrender. I surrender. I surrender. Oh. Yeah. That's a good tune. Pick that up. Timmons is good people, and I haven't listened to the whole album, but at least that that song's good. Yeah. There's lot it's it's it's it's still on that electronic vibe. I just don't like it. Yeah. I know. It's not my favorite vibe of stuff. I mean, here's the thing. If I didn't know Timmons was such a genuine dude, you know, I but, like, I I mean, the songs are still great. If you if you if you take all of it and then play it with an acoustic guitar, you'll love every track. Alright. If that's your bet. The electronics, my kids love it because it's all dancy and and whatever. The kids absolutely love it. And that was his intended audience, not a, you know, a 35 year old grumpy man like myself. And so, like, I mean, God tasked him with something and he did it. And so, you know, no one cares what the peanut killer has to say. Yeah. Right on. Alright. So pick up the Timmons album. Hey. I've also been listening to a lot of Josh Garrals. He's a, like, a folk Jesus man, and he's an interesting collection of folks. Just give a shot. See what you think. I'd be interested to see what you what you think about that. So go ahead and hook up with us. Josh Garrals. He's a I think he's from Arizona or something like that. Anyway, that's that's it for now. We'll see you next week. In in the meantime, be faithful in means. God will have till the end. You've been listening to Live From The Path.