Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path.

And you're listening to live from the Pathway. We're coming from the Pathway studios here in Johnston Proper. It is, good to be with you here on this, you don't care what the temperature is. It's nice outside. Well, I mean, it's cold. You don't care. Anyway, I appreciate you guys hanging out with us so far tonight. Hey. I'm excited about the show. I I told you a little bit about this, last week that this was gonna be a possibility, that I had a mystery interview that I thought might come through and and it did and I'm super excited about it. So, I'm gonna, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna spend the first half probably, I don't know, fifteen, twenty minutes of the show talking with Kevin Cloud. And Kevin is the author of a book, God and Hamilton.

And this is an intersection of two things I I very much love, certainly disproportionate to the god part above the Hamilton, but but on the radar. So we're gonna talk to Kevin, and we're gonna learn about his book. I'm gonna get you in on the preorders of it and the opportunity to pick out some tickets in the Des Moines area. So, we're gonna kick over to that. And then we've got some, advice on Dear Life from the Path. People need help, and, they certainly don't intend to call into Internet radio to get it. So we're gonna act like they wrote to us and, see if we can help out and look look at some stuff, hopefully through Jesus lens. And, I don't know, see if we can make some headway on the world's problems. So that's the that's the gist of the show tonight. It'd short and sweet, but I do appreciate you guys hanging out with us. Oh, and the, the interview from last week with Egypt Ali, if you go to lifeinthepath.org, you can check that out. Just go ahead and hit the, hit up the website and that interview is sitting out there ready to go. That was a long one. But it was really really good. And if you did not pick up that Cathedrals album, from Egypt, that is out and it is ready to rock. So go pick that stuff up and take a listen and, you will definitely enjoy it. Alright. So let's, let's kick this over. We're gonna talk to,

Kevin Cloud. Kevin is a church planner. He is a pastor, and he is also author of the, of the forthcoming book, God and Hamilton. Kevin, thanks for joining us on Live From The Path. Yeah. So good to be with you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. You bet. So I'm excited about about this book. And so oddly enough,

I was just scrolling Facebook one day, and then you're you had a sponsored ad out there for the book, for the Kickstarter, to help fund, the the book and the distribution of the book. And,

I was super excited for it. Hamilton, I've not seen, but I have heard. And,

just are just multiple elements that that that fascinate me and engage me. So I was super excited to see that, that you had kinda grabbed ahold of this and and and tied what I think are are, maybe more overt than what people recognize, the spiritual themes within the musical,

and help to to really kinda to bring it up to life. So let's start with, like, your what was your initial your first interaction with the Hamilton musical? Was it seeing it? Was it hearing it? How did you first kinda run into it? Yeah. So we kinda lucked out into some tickets

in Broadway about two and a half years ago. And so when we knew we were gonna go see it, we actually started listening to it at home just to kinda prepare ourselves for And after seeing after seeing it live, you know, I walked out of the theater knowing that it was a a brilliant piece of art. Obviously, brilliant musical, groundbreaking musical, everything everybody said about it. Yep. But I also walked out of the feeling like I had just experienced something that was deeply spiritual.

Know, these themes that you see played out in the story of grace and forgiveness and despair and surrender and redemption, it felt like it hit on on all of the the great themes of the spiritual life. And, you know, there were moments where something would happen on stage in the in the theater and

it was almost like the entire atmosphere of the theater changed because something so profound had just happened or something that revealed truth in a really powerful way happened. Or or or maybe even, you you can even use the language that somehow the spirit of God was present and there and speaking to people who had ears to hear. And so I watched the musical and felt felt the sense of it being a deeply spiritual experience. And then I went home and I read the Chernoff biography Yep. That the musical was built on. And, you know, I knew nothing about Alexander Hamilton like most people before the show came out. And it was a deeply moving experience reading this book, and reading about his life and his faith and maybe even more so Eliza and her faith. Yep. I mean, both of these people were just deeply faithful people. They were not perfect, obviously. But, you know, Alexander, he comes to America and he goes to a college where he attends chapel twice a day. He prays. His his roommate remarks about how moving and and touching his prayers were. In his later years of his life, there's there's stories of his kids talking about him reading the scriptures to him and him wanting to build them a chapel on the land that he buys

on his deathbed. He he invites two or three different priests and pastors to come and and read him his last rites, and he confesses his his dependence on the mercy of Christ. And I mean, there's just all these moments where

where you can tell this was a deeply spiritual man. And again, not a perfect man, a flawed man, but but but it's a it's a spiritual story that this is that musical is telling. And and the other the other thing that made me think about writing this book is the more I heard other people talk about it, I heard people talking about it not only in terms of of, again, a brilliant musical, but as a life changing experience. And it just made me think, man, what is happening in this play that people go and see that they would speak of it in in that, that compelling of a term? Right. I heard a theater critic once say that it

felt like, a fresh wind was blowing through the theater as he watched Hamilton. And so again, I'm just hearing people use this language that that I would attribute to a very spiritual reality, the presence of God in this in this story. And so I just wanted to write a book to help people kind of connect those dots and see the themes that I saw so deeply in this story. So so you had done,

an interview with Lauren Boyd, who who was is part of the show. Is that right? Yeah. She is in the she's in the Broadway cast right now. Okay. Also, how did you how did you hook up with her? So when I when I started thinking about writing this book, just started reaching out to a bunch of different

cast members. Yeah. And I either, you know, get on Instagram and direct message them or I try to reach out to their agents and actually probably had five or 10 that were intrigued and that at least, you know, were open to maybe sending the manuscript. But Lauren was probably out of everybody kind of the most enthusiastic about it. She immediately, you know, was excited about reading it and wrote a really kind endorsement for the podcast together and kinda gotten to know each other just a little bit through emailing and and talking about the musical. And it's been really fun connecting with someone who who's a part of the cast and who experiences this on the other side of the stage obviously than than we do as the audience. But who but who can feel those same moments in the theater. You know, she at one point, said something to something to the effect of when she's on stage, she she feels those moments just as profoundly as the audience does when something significant happens in the story and when when when some kind of a truth kind of comes to bear in the story. And so it's been really fun kind of getting to know her a little bit and and hearing her perspective on the on the on the play. You know, she told a really interesting story about a tradition

that got started with Chris Jackson who was the original George Washington on Broadway. And he's a spiritual man and a faithful man, and he would gather up the cast before every performance, and they would pray. They would pray for the show, they would pray for that evening, and they would pray that every single person that left the theater would be changed by that experience, whether they were in the on stage, whether they were in the orchestra pit, whether they were the audience.

And so they so they were praying and that tradition, Lauren told me, continues to this day where however many of the cast members are able to circle up and they pray and they ask that that this show would change people's lives, and I think that's happening. Well, that's that's great. And it that's actually the part that stuck out as I was kinda reading through the transcript to the interview, is kind of those those moments of of transcendence. Do you when you were there watching, do you recall,

you kinda, I think, spoke to this, but, like, what specific part of the play or the moments that that kinda felt that way for you? Yeah. Sure. There were there were a lot of them. Maybe probably the most powerful ones, you know, the the song Quiet Uptown Yeah. Yeah. Where where they're where they're struggling with the with the death of their son and the rebuilding of their marriage after Alexander has has betrayed Eliza so deeply. And

and you know, he he betrays her in this affair and then he he makes the affair public in a pamphlet he writes basically to try to save his own political career. So now he's he's basically betrayed her twice. Right? Yep. And so they're they're struggling with the rebuilding of their marriage. They are dealing with the loss of their son, and and Alexander's asking for forgiveness. And it's really fascinating

because in in that song, Eliza is cold and distant and at one point, Alexander reaches out and touches her arm and she flinches. I mean you can see the distance in her body language. But slowly she softens and then

kind of towards the end the song, she starts singing with him and the whole chorus sings this line, forgiveness, can you imagine? And oh my gosh, it is such a powerful moment. Mean you hear people tell stories of weeping when that moment happens when forgiveness is finally offered. Another moment for me that was really powerful is the very last song where Eliza is singing about

the orphanage that she builds. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the idea that this this is actually the last chapter of my book. It's about redemption. And it's the idea that Alexander who grew up as an orphan, this was the most broken part of his life. Right? This was this was a wound that he carried with him his entire life. And Eliza as as his wife, I'm sure carried that with him and carried that burden with him. And then she felt called by God. I mean, there's there's things that she's written where she felt a clear call by God to be a part of this group that started this orphanage.

And to me, it's just a beautiful picture of how God takes the most broken parts of our lives and somehow makes them beautiful. Right? Eliza takes this broken part of Alexander's life and then uses that as a way to redeem these other children who have a really bleak future and a bleak possibility in front of them and she all of a sudden opens the door to a brand new you know, grace

that that they would have never been able to experience without that. So as Eliza's singing about that, it's really amazing. Then the musical closes with her kind of looking up to heaven and and and catching a glimpse, I think, of her husband. Yeah. And and it's just this really deeply moving moment of redemption and maybe, for me, personally, one of the most powerful visual representation of redemption that I've ever seen. You know, I I think that's, that it's quite uptown, is is where I felt that. And again, having not not seen it, but even even just musically, and especially when you're driving, you got nothing else to do but kinda soak it in.

And I I would say that I had a similar moment of it it was it was just of it was it was being impressed, but it was also like being impressed upon the the clarity of understanding of feel it's like you felt forgiveness right or well

in a in a time where like people often have articulating it or have trouble feeling it or even know what it is to kind of feel it right. And there was just a there's a clarity in that song, that I that I think is is is very pure and very specific. And it just it just you just walk away with a with a piece if you're kind of engaged in it that I I think is difficult to do and difficult to communicate. I I just it's, I I definitely felt that in that song.

Well, it's interesting. So Lin Manuel Miranda talks about he he did an interview once or maybe it was the speech he gave where he talks about how one of his favorite aspects of live theater is its ability to create moments of action. Yeah. And what he means by that is that something happens on stage that confronts the audience and challenges the audience and and and forces the audience to ask the question, what am I gonna do in response to this moment? And so you see this this man who's betrayed his wife in the worst possible way and you see her forgive him. And I think part of why it it connects so deeply to the audience is every single one of us

either sitting in that theater or listening to it at home either needs to forgive someone or needs to be forgiven by someone, certainly needs to be forgiven by God. And so it just it draws every single one of us in and it confronts our lives. And it makes us ask the question, will we learn from Eliza's example? Will we follow the example she sets of forgiving someone who who hurt her so deeply and yet Eliza walked with God? Yeah. And I like to I like to imagine Eliza

praying and begging God to give her the ability to forgive her husband and knowing that God was calling her to forgive and wrestling through that process and knowing it wouldn't be easy. But she did it. She forgave him and and they, you know, lived the rest of their lives together. So, this is, you can still pick this up. If if you guys that are listening, that you can get in on the Kickstarter. We got three more days. The launch of the book is, the official release is June 7. Right? And then you can do seventh is the drop date. Okay. Yeah. June 7 is the drop date. You can still get it on the Kickstarter. You're funded though. Right? Like like, I I think I saw it a week ago when you are you had already made your funding goal.

Yeah. I've already hit the goal, is really exciting. But anything I raise on top of that just helps me get get to launch this book out into the world with a little bit more resources buying it. So I'm a first time author and trying to get all the help I can get and I have some advanced copies that I'm trying to get out into the world. So it's available on the Kickstarter. It's also after after three days is up, you can preorder it anytime,

but it'll be officially released on June 7 on Amazon. That that's exciting. So what type of, what type of stuff is out there on the on the Kickstarter? Yeah. I assume that you can get a copy of the book. Anything else exciting? Yeah. So the fun thing, yeah, the yeah. The fun thing about the Kickstarter is that, you know, you're selling the book obviously, but you have all kinds of bonus material that you have. So I have a thirty day God and Hamilton devotional guide Sweet. That I'm giving away at a certain level. Another thing I'm really excited about, I have some friends who are really talented musicians, and we went into the studio and we recorded a song. Alexander Hamilton wrote a hymn called The Soul Ofcending Into Bliss. And so we actually wrote a hymn using his lyrics and then kinda writing a song to it. So that song is available on the Kickstarter as well. Cool. There's actually even, two tickets in Des Moines that are available, at a certain level of giving. If someone wants wants to try to grab a couple tickets in Des Moines, those those are still up there. And and then also there's an exclusive pod

podcast with Lauren Boyd who is the we already mentioned her, but she's on on the Hamilton cast. So there's all kinds of, like, exclusive bonus giveaway stuff on top of the books as well that you can get there. Yeah. Very cool. Hey. You might as well get in on that. Here's the thing. Actually, I was slated to go, with my my daughter and my niece.

And I mean, I'm gonna be out of the country. My my brother and I are going to Ethiopia, so I'm gonna I'm going to miss it. Him and I both are gonna miss it. And so I'm I'm super disappointed in that. I mean, it's it's the right reason to miss it, but in general, I'm still disappointed. Yeah. That's a bad bad timing. It's it's, have you seen it, it's coming has it been Kansas why don't I think it was Kansas City either recently or coming coming around? Have you been back to see it? No. I haven't. I saw it in I saw it in New York, then it's coming to Kansas City in, June '19. So, you know, basically a year from now. Okay. Or, you know, a little more than a year, is when it's come to Kansas City. So Gotcha. So one of the things actually that that that I was thinking about when you were discussing it earlier about the musical, in relation to Alexander's faith is it does kind of give the impression that he moves

into a, I don't know, a more generic a more generic faith. Actually, this is just the impression that I get. He's talking about gods as opposed to a, you know, a god. And there there's like, I guess the musical at least gave me the impression that there's a lull in his life kinda when the main primary action is happening until the point of which,

he has that he has the affair and then kind of finds out on the other side and starts praying again. Is that, is that the wrong impression, or do you feel like that is that's actually what is what happened in his life? No. I think that's I think that's actually pretty accurate. And it's interesting as I've gotten to know some people in the in the, you know, the Hamilton historical community, there's kind of differing opinions on this. And Yeah. In some ways, you never really know someone's personal faith and personal life with God. What what you read and turn on, what what a lot of people also would concur with would be the idea that as a as a young man, or certainly as a boy and as a young man, he lived a pretty devout life of faith and

and lived pretty intimately connected to God. But kind of wandered in his middle age years and faith didn't become as important to him. Mean certainly, as he's married to Eliza, she's attending church without him. She has a pew that they've rented at Trinity Church, but he doesn't really attend as religiously as she does. And so he kinda goes through almost a prodigal son season, it appears. But then towards the later years of his life, he seems to return to it with really full fervor. And again, we have stories of him reading the scriptures to his children or him taking notes in the margins of his Bible.

And again, his deathbed scene is churn up. Basically says, if you know anything about the scene of his deathbed, there's no doubt about this man's authentic flowering faith at the end of his life. Yeah. And really for the the last year or so, however long that lasted. So, yeah, it's kind of an interesting development that he had of. Very devout as a as a youth, kind of kind of fell away from it, it appears, during some of the middle age years and then came back to it very strongly towards the end.

Right. And I think that, I mean, that follows well, I guess, even with the the the tenor of the music. It makes sense. Right? Like, a new you get a kind of a glimpse of your own, your own frailty, your own humanity, and how it starts to you're trying to change the world under your own initiative. And then, once you start to get some, I don't at least some sense of perspective on your own life, and relative to things you can or cannot control or the the depths of which you can hurt someone, like, you start you start looking broader

and outside of yourself and Well, and with and with Hamilton and with Hamilton too, you're dealing with obviously going through the revolutionary war Yep. And the horrors that that is involved in. And it's not hard to imagine someone kind of losing his faith, seeing what he saw and going through what he went through. And again, a lot of this is conjecture. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. I mean, that's a season of life that you kinda come up against your own limitations, and you start asking some questions, and you try to start figuring out what you believe and what you don't believe. And certainly that's a lot of people's stories. I do think that

part of why Hamilton's character connects so deeply with people is that he is a flawed character. Right? I mean, has these huge triumphs but also these huge failures. Another And book you should totally check out is called Hamilton the Revolution, which is kind of the behind the scenes story of the play and interviews with all the actors. It's brilliant book.

So you should definitely check that one out as well. But in that, they talk about a conversation that the actors were having about Hamilton and asking, you know, was he too flawed of a character? Yeah. And they kind of decided that no, that actually draws the audience in. And that helps the audience say, hey, this person is a lot like me. He's a lot like my life. My life is flawed. I love God and I wanna follow him. Yet I have failures and brokenness and and flaws in my life as well. And that kind of a character actually draws people in and and helps them engage deeply with the story. You know, and that's that's true though. It It would be very difficult to tell a similarly engaging story using,

if you wanna think of any other the founding fathers, they're just, they're a little bit too etched in stone. Like, that that wasn't their reality. Right? I think we know that their lives were certainly more complicated than that. But but Hamilton's is so obvious, that, like, it's something you feel like you can actually, be invited into.

And and so there there feels like a a greater humanity there, I think, than than some of the other founding fathers to be able to tell this type of story and to engage in it in the way kind of the the multi ethnic cast and the ability to kind of tell the variants of the stories that are going on. Even even Washington in the play kind of sits above, you know, it sits above everything.

The that's just the way his character feels. And, and so yeah. So, like, I think it be hard to tell that story through someone else's eyes that didn't have kind of the the, the limitations or frailties, I guess, that that Alexander Hamilton had or demonstrated. Yeah. I think that's I think that's a great point. And I also think that that another reason that it's it's been so powerful is that nobody knows anything about his story. Right. And so it's a it's a fresh story. You know, nobody knows

what happens. No it's a surprise to everyone. I mean, you start listening to music and and and you kinda pick it up. But but before this musical came out, I mean, who knew Alexander Hamilton and his story. Right? I mean, we were about to take him off the $10 bill Right. Because nobody really cared anymore. And and this musical comes out, and all of a sudden, you know, US secretary of treasury decisions are being changed because of the popularity now of this guy's story. But it is I I do think that helped it as well was was the fact that he was such an unknown founding father, And so it's kind of a a fresh story for a lot of people. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. Hey. We've been hanging out. We're talking with Kevin Cloud, and you you can still pick this up. We said, look, you can get it on the Kickstarter. There's lots of cool stuff going on. Two tickets, still open in Des Moines to be able to pick up at a certain, at a certain level. Go check that out. And if you just, I didn't get the the URL. Just do a Google search for Kickstarter in God Hamilton. You'll find it'd be the first result. You can pick that up. You can also go to godinhamilton.com. There's information, sitting out there, that interview or excerpts from that interview,

that I was asking about earlier sitting out there. Copies of, some of the the the hymn or the the the poetry that's out there, is that the the one that makes up the hymn that you had recorded? Yeah. That's so the the hymn that we recorded is called The Soul Ascending to Bliss, and that's a song that we wrote. And, yeah, that's that's that'll be on the Kickstarter page as well for people that buy the Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can you can go check out the if you wanna look at the words of that, if you go to [email protected],

up on the blog, there's it it shows what the words are so you can kinda dig on that before you get exposure to the tune there. And, like I said, if, if nothing else, it's launching June 7, and, you can do the preorder, anywhere anytime prior to that and go and pick it up. Kevin, thank you so much for hanging out with us. I, really appreciate it.

Yeah. Enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thanks, Kevin. Bye. Alright, man. Hey. That was, that was Kevin Cloud. You've been hanging out with us on live from the path. Hey. I I dig on that I dig on that, musical. Here's the thing. There's a there's a couple of things you gotta keep an eye on that aren't necessarily kid friendly. Okay? But but generally speaking, it is just I mean, it's just well done. I think the whole thing fascinates me,

how well, musically that thing was done. Like, it's I mean, all I can't I I skip, like I I don't think I skip a tune. And I'm I'm prone to skipping tunes, but, like, I I can listen to them. Like, the story's engaging, the stuff that they can do lyrically in there. I can't don't imagine we'd like to kinda take it in

We've been able to watch the stage play or whatever. But I I would agree, just having listened to it multiple times, it it is really the the story itself is really engaging. And and there are just, like, the core themes that exist there on

on, you know, on the mercy parts that we talked about, the the the nature of grace and forgiveness. But but even kind of trying to, a sense of identity and and posturing for eternity and the influence that you intend to have. And, yeah, it's just it's just there's a lot of universal things in there, which I guess isn't a surprise. Right? You tail anybody around. Their life probably has elements of that. But but just to be so artistically well done. If you haven't listened to it, just go check it out. I I don't know if you're like me. I gotta listen to things two or three times. I listened to it once, I thought, well, that's alright. And I think it it probably took a second time,

and I just really dug on, oh, shoot. I meant to ask Kevin. There's there's a guy, the the guy who plays, Jefferson

also plays, the Marquis de Lafayette. And, there's the guy seems super fast. And, I was gonna ask Kevin if he ever tries to get away with that in the car or something, see if he can pull that off super fast. I he prob I I I mean, I would have done it publicly, but, now I'll follow-up and see what I can find out. Anyway, hey. You're listening live from Pat. Thanks for hanging out. As you can see, I'm kinda hanging out by myself tonight. Mike's out of town. He's working. I don't know what happened to Dan. We we skip the show so often nowadays. He probably thought we weren't having one. So in any case, thanks for hanging out with us. Here's what I thought I would do is let's just do a couple, couple bits of advice,

and, and then I will turn you guys loose, you can kinda go about your business. So, that's what we're gonna do. Let me, let me pick some up, and we're gonna get right on this thing. Oh, boy. Okay. This seems pretty good. Here we go. Dear life from the path. My husband's brother split from his wife, Charlotte, five years ago and now works and lives in another country. Okay. The brothers are still quite close. His school aged daughters live nearby and are close to their cousins, our daughters.

Charlotte's latest boyfriend, they have been dating for eighteen months, has started insisting on hanging out with my husband and trying to bond with him. He's also jumping with both feet into their old stepfather, especially with the younger daughter who has just returned after living with her father for the last seven months. It feels awkward and weird, but we are too polite to say anything to him or Charlotte because we're afraid you restrict us from seeing our nieces. What is your advice? I mean, I don't know. I mean, it seems if the status of the boyfriend is difficult, eighteen months though, I mean, what do you want the guy to do?

I mean, I think it's perfectly alright to try to bond with the family, and I hope he does jump in with both feet and through old stepfather. Yeah. I don't know why it would feel awkward and weird. There's probably it's gotta be more about it. Right? There's gotta be more to it about, the guy's, the guy's behavior. Maybe he's a weirdo. I don't know, man. I I would say, though, I mean, this seems initially, this seems like the right thing. I I guess to try to explain it the opposite way, would would it feel weird to say,

hey. There's this guy that's been dating, Charlotte for a year and a half, and he refuses to take on any roles, like, that a stepfather would in reaction to the kids and doesn't wanna bond with us at all. That guy would look ridiculous. And so I think the the opposite seems like it would be perfectly fine. So, yeah, I would say the life from the path advice is, like, I think this is fine. Like, there's personality issues that you're not mentioning, you know, you you try to work with them. But, like, it seems like he's he's trying to fill ultimately what would be expected of him, the right type of roles, the right type of attitude towards it. This seems perfectly fine to me. Let's see what, Sekler says. Sekler says,

knowing the terms of your brother in law's divorce, my advice is to consider that Charlotte has been with this man for a year and a half. He may be trying to form a relationship with your husband because he wants to bond with the relative. Your husband doesn't have to be best friends with him, but he should keep the relationship cordial, not only for the nieces, but also his brother can stay informed about them. Well, I mean, that's that that last part took kind of a creepy turn, didn't it? That one just seems like you're spying on people. I feel like the brother can handle that on his own. Okay.

Anyway, let's, what do we get here? Dear life in the path. I have an I have an addiction to vitamin gummies. Oh, man. I didn't see that coming. They say to eat only two a day, but I eat almost half a container a day. They're so good. This has been a problem for five years. What should I do? Do I contact my doctor? I'm about to graduate from high school and I think my new college friends will think I'm weird if they find out about my gummy addiction. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing, just get gummy bears. They can't be better than straight up gummy bears. Right?

I I can't. Sorry. I always there's nobody else in the studio asking questions myself. I talk to the thrift store priest. Alright. Alright, TSP. Here's a question. I mean, is it possible that vitamin gummies are better than gummy bears?

Oh, yeah. That's what I thought. I didn't think that could be true. Yeah. So, I mean, just get some gummy bears. I mean, you know, that can't be healthy either. Right? Like, you shouldn't be dogpiling either, gummy vitamins or gummy bears. But to the extent that, you shouldn't be overdosing on vitamins, I think it just cause risks of imbalance in your life.

I mean, suppose sugar would do that too. I mean, okay. Let's let's let's move on down road here. Perfect solution. Just stop doing that. Take the number of vitamins that you're supposed to take without any additional crutches necessary and move on with your life. Option number two, slightly less perfect, is stop overdosing on vitamins and just get some straight up gummy bears. And so take your two vitamins from the gummy vitamins and then switch to to traditional sugar gummies and, you know, try to wean off that so you don't kinda jack up your life. Those are my two recommended options. I think both are gonna work. But, certainly, that's not healthy to be overdosed on the gummy bears. I would worry less about new college friends finding out about your gummy addiction. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's college. I'm sure they're gonna do even more embarrassing thing. The fact that you over you know, take a lot of vitamins probably is not gonna make the list.

You poor naive person. You're gonna run into trouble in the college. You make sure you go with the buddy and find out your family. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Those are my two options. Here, let's see what, Saykler says. Saykler says, I'm glad you wrote your vitamins may taste like candy, but they are not candy. It is important that you discuss this with your doctor. The least of your troubles could be that your college friends make fun of you. What you have been doing is dangerous because it could cause unsafe levels of vitamin a, vitamin e, and minerals like iron to reach toxic levels in your system. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's true. That's kinda what I said. I think she over, oversold the thing. But, you know, in general, I think that's about right. But

what's what's all this? No. No. That was not good. Let's do let's do a couple more. Okay. Here we go. Dear life from the path. My son, a junior in college, is trying to get a summer job. His degree is challenging, and he has a good work ethic plus job experience. Because he hasn't had much luck applying online, I've been calling local businesses to see what's available while he's working hard at school. A problem I'm I'm countering is something I never had to deal with in my own job search. It's companies asking if he wants an internship.

They said they can't pay him to train him. You explain the basis of this response? I mean, yeah. I mean, that kinda makes sense. And, I mean, if it's a junior college summer job, degree is challenging, good work ethic. I mean, it depends what you're applying for.

I mean, if you're applying to help out in a hardware store, I'm sure they'll pay you an hourly wage. But if you're applying for, an upper tier job, like, whatever he's posturing for that he has a needs a challenging degree, I I mean, they it could be here's the thing. It's it's like, it could be that they they don't pay. They can't pay him to train him.

That's possible. But it's also it's also very possible that they're they're using it to weed out basically noncommitted people. Like, depending on the type of job that you're talking about, if you say, look, we can't pay you, but it'll give you life experience, the people who are super committed to it are gonna come anyway, and then they actually get some good help. And and and maybe even a good line on hiring somebody down the road. If if if not, if you pay decently well because the work is hard or, you know, it requires a certain set of skill,

you have to weed through a lot more people, right, because they want the higher pay or, you know, the the the job is, like, kind of interesting, but the dollars associated whether it make it even better. Right? So, like, I it could just be using it as a filter. And so, I mean, the truth is it just depends on what type of job he's looking for. I'm I'm confident he can work anywhere if he just wants summer wages. But if he's looking for something that actually means something to his degree, yeah, he might have to accept the internship, and that kinda stinks. But but that type of life experience before you actually graduate and and get the job

is is probably gonna be be worth it. And so I I I suppose that's something to consider. It seems unfair that he's working for free, but he's not working for free. He's he's just working for the experience. And, and I think that that could be super valuable for him. So it just depends ultimately on what it is, you know, the type of job you're talking about. But, I would say, I would consider an internship. I think that might be a valuable thing. If not, just stop calling places. You know you know, the hardware store and Mickey D's don't ever do an internship. They're let you work there and just pay you an hourly wage. And if that's all you need, you know, just don't complicate your search.

Segler says, the basis may be economic. The companies don't want to spend the money on an intern, particularly one who exhibits such little initiative that his mother has to call to inquire about a job for him. Yeah. No. I would shoot. I thought that too. I let that part go. But seculars kinda nailed it. Don't don't let mom call you call on your job, man. That's but you want a decent job. Yeah. You you don't send mom on on the ticket. Keep in mind that some internships have been known to lead to permanent positions. Your son may have better luck if he places the call himself. Okay. Yeah. I think we could agree on that. I think all that sounds about right.

What do you think? You disagree with that? Same with you. It's just you don't you guys never respond. Like, it's either you're taking this advice, which is foolish. It's foolishness. Or you think we could have done much better, in which I would like to hear that. So shoot us an email, [email protected], and we can take that take that into consideration. And maybe you can help me change my ways. I'm open to changing my ways, folk. I don't know why you think I'm so stubborn in this matter. Things are just fine. Hey. I was gonna give you a one more what was what was I gonna follow-up on here? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Spiritual disciplines. So we talked about this a few

or I prefer spiritual rhythms, but that's just persnickety on my part. But I wanted to follow-up with because I told you this is something that I'm working through, something that I feel like the church has always done. Like, it's just it's just consistent. Right? The church is always praying and always fasting. As a matter fact, recently, we're going through acts. It's just when Paul and Barnabas are going on their missionary journey, and, like, we see that they are praying and fasting, same guys are, the church is, and then the Holy Spirit comes and tells me, you know, set aside Barnabas and and and Saul. And so what's interesting is that, like, it's easy to think, hey. There was a specific thing they wanted, and they were praying on that and fasting about that, and the holy spirit showed up. And, like, there are biblical examples

of praying on certain things and fasting for specific reasons. Okay? So it's not it's not out of left field. But I I think if you if you allow that to to to read without boxing it in, and as we look at kind of prayer and fasting, in addition to how it kind of speaks to it through Acts and the rest of the New Testament, but also in the Old Testament, yeah, it looks to be those two things, specifically, things that that God's people just do. God's people just do those things. They do them in very specific ways at times for specific reasons, but it's also kinda just core to their spiritual life is they're doing things like praying and fasting. And so, it's just been something I've been been trying to figure out then, because I think there's ways you can do it. Like, you can, and I wish Dan were here. I'd like, he's he's, been a better faster than I know of, of around.

Has fasted for reasons. You know, he just also kinda, I think, looks at it in a healthy way. And we talked about that a little bit, I think, on the show a few months back. But, I just wanted to follow-up with you on some spiritual rhythm stuff. And so, here's where I'm at. I'm not, I'm still kinda plotting out how I wanna look at fasting.

I have started from a prayer perspective. Here's my two things that I'm that I'm working on. The first one is is I've just just take the simple thing. Take the Lord's Prayer. I think, we we under utilize

the simplicity of that prayer by calling it a template prayer. This is how how you could or the types of things you should pray about, which I think is fine. You can you know, if you're gonna pray unceasingly, you're gonna have to find some words to to put some variety in your life. I get it. But, like, you know, when we think at when look at the New Testament church, like, when it says, like, they're still doing the prayers. Like, it seems it seems to be that they are actually still praying, like, three times a day with some regularity, and it's likely the Lord's prayer. And so as we look at those types of things,

like, praying something that is that is consistent, that is simple, that can be done kind of anywhere, I I think it has a lot of value to it. So I started to do that. My goal is to do three times a day,

you know, and just general parts of the day. Right? Morning, noon, evening, in addition to, you know, praying with my kids and just praying about random stuff, is to to do the Lord's Prayer. And and the the goal is to put some,

some rhythm to it, to put some exercise to it. Right? These words are leaving my list. I'm thinking of things that God might be bringing to my mind relative to the the Lord's Prayer itself. Because it's it's it's interesting. The risks I run-in trying to think of what to pray about,

that kind of cycled through my mind when I could just be praying how Jesus said, hey. Pray this. And and what what's been good is is that as I pray, like, I kinda let the I let the words kinda float through my mind. Kinda you ever have seen a sing along, video or whatever? What did I have when I was little? Zip a dee doo dah. That's what I had. I had the zip a dee doo dah video, dis the Disney tunes. And, so so it would put the words Zipiti Doo Dah. Zipiti yay. Right? And it's got the little ball that kinda bounces up and down and tells you what what to sing. Right? And so I've been trying that with the Lord's Prayer to make sure it just doesn't kinda float off my my lips and go away and say, okay. Check a box. I I did it. We've we've been so worried about checking a box, when we to to to do things consistently

that we miss that, like, if you just don't approach it as a box checking thing, the regularity of it could be very powerful. And so, so, anyway, that's what I've been doing is as I pray, I kind of I kinda let it the the words kinda highlight into my mind, it and it helps me, I think, hold on to a little better. And it's interesting because what it does is it forces you to think about them in the context that you're in. And especially kind of the back half, if the if the front half of the Lord's Prayer is is

love service to God and fealty to God. And the the the back half of the Lord's Prayer is focused on relationships between me and other humans primarily, which is the same way that the 10 commandments are set up and the same way when when Jesus answers, you know, what is the greatest commandment? He says, love the lord your god with all your heart, mind, and soul, and, love your neighbor as yourself. And he couples those two things together. So, like, that is a pretty consistent coupling in scripture to see those two things kinda combined.

But, anyway, what it forces you to do, is to pray that prayer, and Jesus gives it to us in, in a in a communal aspect. Right? Give us this day our daily bread. Forgive us our trespasses or our sins as we forgive those we forgive those who have sinned against us. And so, like, it caused you to look around. It caused you to digest it personally, and it caused you then to look around and say, well, hey. I have daily bread today. Does that is there is there a we? Is there an us,

that doesn't, that I can impact? As we forgive, is there something that I I need to be someone I need to be forgiving or situation that I need be forgiving of? And then, you know, I think of other folks of which lack of forgiveness is is cramping the day. Right? It is separating them from peace that comes with just doing things god's way. And

and so, anyway, it's just been powerful for me. And, like, it's a weird line because I think we got so far away from these spiritual rhythms because they became they became markers of, righteousness,

which is false. However, I think you are missing out on a fuller, deeper connection with God by not having some sort of spiritual rhythms in your life. Like, you you are you're living your life on spiritual Hail Marys. That's that's a risk. Right? It doesn't mean be a personal accusation issue. But, like, the risk is is that you are living your life on on spiritual Hail Hail Marys,

which is not that the Holy Spirit is not capable of doing, but it does not seem to that that that is the way in which God's people, have intended to interact, with God and with the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that they live a a life of,

of spiritual rhythm of which the stories that we get in the New Testament largely show us the demonstration of those things. Because if you think about think about the epistles, those are, contemplative writings. Right? Like, certainly holy spirit guided, but they're a result of, teaching often. You don't think Paul just sat down and kicks out Romans. Like, right? Like, these are he's he's thought through it. He's thought through how to tell it. He's thought through, in his experience,

having discussions with people. There's an apologetic within Romans. You know, like, going through these conversations, he structures that letter for those folks to kinda take it in that way. And so it's just interesting, as we kind of expect that, you know, we're going to,

just show up and and witness or we're gonna show up and, heal or show up and like, whatever these things that we think that the Holy Spirit does indeed do. But but but, like, we're just gonna not put any like, have any, any practice in them, any preparation in them, and we just kinda be wide eyed and ready to rock. And the problem is is because the Holy Spirit is capable of doing that type of thing, like, there there's a little bit of that sounds reasonable. Right? Like, if God wants this done, he'll just do it. He'll give me the words, blah blah blah. But I I just it just doesn't seem to think the the the framework of which I think God's people are interacting. I think they have a consistent lives of of of prayer and of fasting and of worship and of community and of celebration and of solitude and and of scriptural

study and of, you know, those types of things. And, and even even even memorization, even scripture memorization is you put all those things together. And let's let's not use them as external marks of which we can show people how pious or righteous we are. But I think it is a is a miss to write them off,

because people could have used them that way. I think you still engage them, but you still engage them because they're good. Because they're good. Because they put they put God's words on your lips. Because they they put the scriptures into your mind. Because they they give you time, I mean, quiet solitude to be able to just you and God to hang out. And here's the deal. That's probably scares you. It scares me because I don't I I don't like where my mind goes when I'm sitting by myself. But here's the deal. I don't have practice waiting that in for an extended amount of time. I don't have practice,

like, continuing to persist in reaching and talking to God, to to otherwise not be afraid of being by myself in the places that my mind is willing to go. And maybe that's not something that happens to you. Maybe it maybe it is. But, like, I that's what I'm saying. I I think we miss it if we write them off because people have used them wrong. We have an opportunity to engage in them boldly. And so prayer. I'm working on

the Lord's Prayer three times a day, of which I've been partially successful. Scripture memorization, I really stink. I just flat out am terrible at this. So I've been working on it. I've been working on it, just just the Great Commission itself.

And, again, that a couple weeks, and I'm feeling pretty good about that. The the core some part of the great commission is that we kinda tend to leave the last part out. Right? Like, we we wanna baptize the nations in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. And then we forget to teach people to obey the commands that Jesus gave to them. And, again, Jesus kinda coupled those two things together. He didn't say do this, and then if you can get around to it, go ahead and teach them to obey the commands that I've given you. He's kinda put those two things together. And so, reminding me, being able to memorize that, it kinda puts those things on my on my mind, so so that I can kind of hopefully interact with them as we go. But, anyway, so I'm working on scriptural memorization piece. The solitude thing I'm really still working on,

It seems very, very hipster to be able to take a day off work and go sit somewhere, like at a tree or on a log or something and and talk to Jesus. And so, maybe that's okay. But maybe that the thought of it, it seems it's it's even the thought that it's distracting like it's like it's a performance because it had to be in a spot. It had to be in a a vibe of a forest or something. I I don't know. I that's probably not an issue. Maybe it's a personal problem. But I'm working on that part because I'd like to do it.

It still has to be a rhythm. Right? Not not not like, vacations aren't rhythms. And so time in forest isn't necessarily a rhythm. I don't know. I'm working on it. Right? I'm I'm trying to to be trying to read the scriptures and kinda let it let it drive me to what these things kinda look like because it's just not it's not a hard and fast law here because it I don't think it wasn't intended to look that way. It is something we get to do, not something we have to do. But I think we we're missing out if we don't do it. So, anyway, I'm working on what that looks like. Goal

within the next month or two is to kinda do, like, three maybe of a of a smaller time frame. So maybe just an hour of of of some solitude and kinda hanging out, trying to eliminate world noise to the extent that you can and just hanging out and maybe reading psalms, praying, trying to deal with some silence

and and kinda interact with God in that way. And it's just like, you know, what Jesus does, like, when Jesus is tempted by Satan, he's by himself for forty days. Like, there's something about. So in fact, Jesus is often seeking solitude. And like, when I say we don't know, like, they're not laws, but we do have the person of Jesus,

like, his his fully human self to to see what he does. And he does seem to be focused on spiritual rhythms. And like of all people, slash gods, you would say you would think that he would need it. Right? Like, that's kind of how we would think about it. Well, I do it because I need it or I don't do it because I don't need it. But like, Jesus does. Jesus has solitude. Jesus,

seems to to to ruminate on the scriptures. And so Jesus Jesus prays. And so I I think these are things that we can say, if they weren't necessary, Jesus wouldn't be doing them. And so if he's as works as our spiritual or, in human, kind of best human example,

I feel like we're missing out. Anyway, made the point. It doesn't matter. That's it. I just thought I'd keep you an update on where I'm working. I'm working slower than I intended to. I I I was hoping to have a plan, like, early March to be able to rock in this thing, and it's just it's tugging on me. It's dragging a little bit. Because here's the thing. I I think I think it's gonna change my life. I think it's gonna change aspects because you're committing to things. You're doing habits. You're doing rhythms of life, and, like, something has to give. Right? Nobody's life is just open to be able to take on, extra rhythms,

and so some stuff's gotta give. So, anyway, I'm just working on what that looks like. I thought I'd share that with y'all. I do invite you to join me. I don't care how you do it. I don't care. You don't have to do what I'm doing, but, like, if any of that kind of hits home for you, you recognize that there might be a value to this, I encourage you to kinda seek it on your own. There's a book by Dallas Willard on the spiritual disciplines, which is it's a little verbose. I don't like, he goes through the spiritual the the theological background, which I think is valuable to a certain extent.

And there's only one chapter that kind of walks through what he thinks the disciplines are and kind of how they work. But and I think that's actually not specific enough. I it was a good book, but I would say, you know, to find someone who really digs on that kind of thing, have them read and give you the cliff notes, and you're probably just fine. So alright. I'll I'll let you go. I can't be too long. Thanks for hanging out, here on Life in the Path. Big thanks to Kevin. That was cool. I'm excited to read the book, and and you should jump in on the Kickstarter stuff. Maybe pick up those tickets for the for Hamilton and Des Moines. That'd be sweet. I I wanna I wanna hear the tune. I just got a lot of cool stuff going on, so go check that out. He has a website too. Think kimoncloud.com and gonehamilton.com, stuff you can keep up on what's going on with the book. But dig on that. And then if you haven't listened to Hamilton musical, or even if you just haven't listened to more than once,

you try to take it in, and try to take it in at one city. The piecemeal and the songs, you just don't get the same vibes. Try try to take the whole thing in. It's a roller coaster. It's just a fantastic thing. Alright. I'm gonna let you go. You've listening to Life From The Path. I don't even have outro music tonight, you're gonna have to deal with that. So and I will see you not next week. I think we're out for a week or two, and then we'll be back with you. In the meantime, be faithful in means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Life in the Path.