Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper.

Who's gonna be with you tonight? It's Mike Hoost. You know oh, hey, Mike. How's it going? I'm Dan. Hey. Here's the deal. I always say that it's good to be with you. I don't know that. You might be mixed and dicey company. And so I apologize for inferring that you may be a better person than you are. That was not meant to affirm, any poor lifestyle choices that you may have made. Please don't use that throughout the week in your relationships or job or whatever it is. I just I'm just saying don't blame that on me. This is the Internet. It's not my fault. My name is Ben Foust. Really opening up on a positive note there, Ben. Here's the thing. It occurs to me that I might be affirming someone, and, you know, when people are are are, you know, maybe they make bad decisions, and I don't want them thinking that I'm supportive. If anyone

literally takes your statement as an affirmation of their bad behaviors, I don't think you telling them that that's not what you're doing will have any effect on that thought process. But my conscience is clear about it. I'm I'm not gonna wake up in sweat. It was for you mainly. Okay. Got it. Yeah. I mean, my whole life generally serves me. That's the nature of it. I like to look good. Here's what we got going on the show tonight. So two two things three things and some advice, and we're gonna call this a day. First of all, so there's a there's a kerfuffle today about Chick fil A. Oh. Oh. Somebody posted but had there was no there was nothing to it. It was completely Yeah. It was vague posted. I'll Okay. We're gonna we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. They're, like, not gonna support Salvation Army anymore and and and and what? What? Anything that's affirming

to Yeah. LGBTQ Well, so here's We're gonna They're not affirming. They won't no longer support them. We're gonna read the the what they said because I I was actually and I kinda thought this was going on. Like, what they said is not the same thing as what I read,

or the implication of it. Oh. No. Okay. Wait. What they said isn't what they said what they No. Yes. You mean what people are saying in the comments? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The implication of what it And so I we're gonna touch on that. And then we're gonna talk about so I didn't get to this last week. I I I'm just gonna hit a few of these, but there was a like I said, there was an article from Jake Meter about 15 from Mira Orthodoxy about 15 proposals for church renewal. And so I just wanted to touch on a few of these just to talk through and say, hey. What what do we think? Is there is there value in this thing? Now I the the premise of it isn't do do these or you're a terrible church or you're a sinner or whatever. I think it's just like if you're trying church renewal if you tried these types of things, do we feel like they're actually helpful in renewing Yeah. A church?

They they bend liturgical. And I'm not again, I'm not yes. Very much that. But anyway, we'll hit of a those, and then if we get through them, great. If we don't, we'll move on. We'll maybe pick some up next week. It's very possible. The pope is around. I'll check on that and see if I can confirm, and then we'll do some advice on life from the dear life from the path, and that's and that's what we'll get done. So here's the deal. So here's so the the this from Chick fil A,

the the basic report was Chick fil A came out and said, hey. We're going to we're gonna change our donation strategy. And there were a couple aspects of it. One, they said they're not gonna do multiyear commitments for donations or corporate giving. Okay. So they got they had over the past few years, like, they've been involved in, multiyear agreements

with with different charities, and they said, look, we're not gonna do that anymore. Give us a little bit more flexibility to change where our dollars go year over year. Yeah. And they said that they're also gonna change what they focus on. They're going to be specifically about hold on. I can quote them. Working exclusively in the areas of education, homelessness, hunger. Right. Okay. Basically, an attempt to to refine where their money's going. Yeah. Now, this happens to come at a time, of which Chick fil A is under fire from external groups for,

in the past, giving to, say, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and The Salvation Army. Uh-huh. Both organizations who have been accused of having anti LGBT stances. Actually, there was a there was a big deal about The Salvation Army and its association with, I think, the Dallas Cowboys. There was, like, a the Thursday night game or something where somebody was supposed to sing the halftime show, they said, look. Great. I'm I'm glad to work. This this singer went out and interacted with The Salvation Army,

volunteered. Everything was great. And then a bunch of supporters on Twitter were like, hey, did you know they're anti LGBT? And then she, like, said, well, I need them to unless they renounce that and make a donation to some cause or whatever, I'm not gonna sing the national Yeah. That ended up falling apart because The Salvation Army, Claire, like, came back and that's not their stance. The Salvation Army is a

is a Christian organization. What's the church? Right. And they and they but, like, they're not it's not like they're not serving anybody. They're actually create safe places for for transgender folks, folks who identify as that. Because here's the deal. They're they're serving at risk populations. Their aim is to is to provide food, clothing, shelter, help with homelessness, job training, and stuff for people in need. Yeah. It is it is over well, not overwhelmingly, but, like, that bends to

minority esque groups. So whether it be along racial lines or sexual orientation identification or something like that, like, those folks end up needing those services, and the and the Salvation Army provides them. And so, like, it it basically was un it's unjustified Right. The accusation against Salvation Army. And so they they actually got that. They they they said, look. This is how we do it. And, the singer, I think, pitchulated and did the thing. Anyway, so what I saw what I saw on Facebook and in the news and stuff was,

Chick fil A bows to LGBT pressure, ceases giving to Christian organizations. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's everybody's posting it right now. So I remember thinking, I think I'm gonna wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what I thought would be valuable and I there's there's, I think, a broad point to this. But what basically, what they said was,

again, we're going to give to a smaller number of organizations. We're gonna focus exclusively on education, homelessness, and hunger, which in effect eliminates the fellowship of Christian athletes because they don't focus on that. And they they did stop giving to The Salvation Army. Now to clarify, they they just posted what they gave in 2018. They put it on the website. They say, look. Here's all the organization we give to so that you can go look. They gave, like, a $115,000,

and it was specifically to hold on. Shoot. I lost the lost the where was it at? Hold on. Hold on. $115.02, Salvation Army? Yeah. It was to The Salvation Army. But, like, it wasn't anything

like, it wasn't anything for I don't know. Something that you might say, oh, well, that's a Christian cause or something. It was like a specific, like, sleep out or something. Like, one event in one city that they gave a $115,000

that was associated with The Salvation Army. It's not like they give millions to The Salvation Army and its organization across the board or that they under undergird its charitable giving somewhere. Like, it was one event to one thing. So the the point being, could you see what they've announced as an attempt to dodge, people's criticism of them supporting

other what otherwise might be Christian organizations. If you make an argument on timing, they've had this problem for years. Like, people have been been harassing Chick fil A forever and protesting and causing them to have to leave places and they've not done this. Mhmm. And so can you make the case that maybe that it's just too much and they're trying to avoid that? Maybe. That of course, they're not gonna come out and say that. Yeah. It's it's possible that that's the case.

I think it's probably too far to look at them and go, hey, they're they're they're capitulating on their core values. That's what the problem is. And so we hate Chick fil A. It could be very well. They were sitting in the meeting thinking, hey, we should streamline things and make it easier. And so we had actually some parameters so when people come to us, we can say, well, does it fit in this category rather than a free for all. That's right. Years ago, I sat at the table, a small lunch table with about 10 guys of one of the founders of Chick fil A. We were planting churches, and they were all looking for money. I mean, we you you know, who I I don't know who they helped or if they did, anybody. You know, I'm just saying they get offers all day long I'm sure. From people wanting money. So so, yeah, it's probably good to have it. Oh, here's who we do. This is what we do. Yep. Right. Does it fall in this category? Yeah. Your new church doesn't. Sorry. Sorry. It's not yeah. I mean, we hate Jesus.

Exactly. And and so here's the thing. You also don't like, a company there's they're a large company. Right? Third third biggest chain fast food chain in The United States. K? They they don't just come up with a new giving strategy in the last two weeks because they had problems with a London opening at Chick fil A. Yeah. Or there was someone who was protesting a Chick fil A food truck in Washington. Like,

they don't just go, oh, well, we better change our directive now. Like, that isn't how it works. And so, like, this is this is something that would have been in work for a long time. Now if I'm them, does it make my life slightly easier to not have to deal with people protesting because I gave to one event for the Salvation Army that isn't, like, directly associated with anything related to sexual identification. Yeah. It might. Is this is it, like, is it a hill to die on? Like, do I don't here's I guess here's the thing. I don't blame them. If they were to say, look, if if a $115 from Salvation Army from our corporate giving structure, like, if if the Cathies still wanna give to Salvation Army Yeah. They will. Yeah. They probably are. Right. Well, here's the thing too. Who says they have to give to anybody? Oh, yeah. I mean

right? Like, it actually kinda drives me crazy. All these corporations give all those money ways. How about you pour that back in the business and charge me less? Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, we're all happy. Everybody's Buy a new fryer, charge me a dime less. Everybody's good. Yeah. Yeah. So so so I so here's here's, I guess, what I and I saw it from people where, like, I was kinda surprised. I like, I know quite a few, extreme people on either end of a political spectrum even on a Christian liberal, like, a more progressive Christianity or a more fundamentalist. Again, broad spectrum. And I know quite a few people, like, mid ground reasonable people. And, like, I mean, to the man, they were pissed about this. Yeah. And I thought, you know, I don't

yeah. I thought I thought I did see a I read a read a quote in something somebody posted of one of the higher ups at Chick fil A saying that they need to be as they expand into other areas, we need to be conscious of the people who live there, which would sound like they're caving a little bit. So so I saw I wonder if they that that so that would have been, I guess, from a had it been a separate article than their press release. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably some interviewers. I I can't remember. It was just something during the day I breezed by and thought, well Yeah. So they said because because I think the the general gist of it was this

allows a consistency. Because, like, the places that they're giving, homelessness, education, and hunger are things that are gonna exist everywhere they go. Yeah. Wherever they open one. Right? So they're not getting into niche and they're, like, broad organizations, Covenant House International Covenant House, you tell me that's not a Christian charity. Junior Achievement isn't, but, like, that's broad education. And they donate to local food banks, which almost always were started by Christians or currently being maintained by one, like, that's being shifted to states but, like, all of them were started by churches. Well, and either way, Jesus did say I was hungry and you fed me. That sounds like a Christian principle. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I just, you know

I you you we here's you're overreacting is what I'm telling you. If you're the person if if you got to the extent that you posted about it because you're hosed off about what's going on, like, I you're overreacting. And, actually, they clarified, one, we are not restricting our policy does not restrict us giving to faith organizations. We are not changing that. We intend to continue to give to both faith and non faith based organizations. And by the way, we're still closed on Sunday. The thing that people are like, it's all the their principles are soaked with it. Their training is soaked with it. They're still closed on Sundays. I like, you're over you're gonna you're gonna beat up you're

gonna beat up your pastor because he took in an episode of Dateline that talked about some kind of story that you found offensive. Like, it's it's that kind of thing. You're overreacting. Right. I'm still going to Chick fil A. They're delicious. And I here's the deal. I expect them to forgive me fast food and that's really the of my expectations. Anything past that, like, I'm glad to support a good company who, treats their employees well, whose employees treat everybody else well. Like, I like them because they're just a good company. I think they I think they run a good business. Yeah. I'm glad that they are helping fight hunger. I'm glad they're helping fight homelessness and education, and provide education support. Those are all things that otherwise the church has, been a part of, and the fact that they're funding them makes me happy. Past that, like, here's the deal. If you didn't want,

if you're fighting your culture wars through your support of Chick fil A, you suck. Yeah. I that I I guess that that's the broad premise. Like, hit the streets or whatever, buddy. I if if your if your means of trying to influence the culture is your social media presence on whether you support Chick fil A's giving habits, it's time to step up to the box. Here here's the deal, though. You know what's happening tomorrow? The Hobby Lobby people are getting together and saying, we're gonna start selling chicken. We're moving in. We're moving in.

Alright. That's it. That's it. But, Muba, does that shift your stance on Chick fil A? No. I I I have a terrible stance on all fast food. I I stay away from the time. That's true. That's a good that's a Okay. Good E even salads. They're they're plain. Yeah. Yes. They are nice. I I have no stands for or against the politeness of Chick fil A. Yes. But salads are usually one of the most calorie rich items on Yikes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. Alright. So let's talk about these proposals for oh, by the way, at me, bro. You don't like that. Hit us up on the complaint line. 55155170085.

You think Chick fil A has really bit the dust and you're totally hosed off it and you find it totally justified to spend your time on it, let me know. (515) 517-0085. That's Please leave a code for a free chicken sandwich. Yeah. That's right. Right? At me, bro. What? Hey. Whatever. You you're not cool. Did you just try and start a Twitter war over a phone number? I mean, I don't even You can't at someone on a phone number.

No. But they can they can You're a champion. They can hit us up on the Twitter. They can hit us up on the Twitter handle. Do we have a Twitter? Oh, yeah. Mean, out live from the bath? Yeah. Yeah. Cool beans. I mean, I don't me, bro. Because the only thing that goes on on Twitter are are arguments like this, so I largely stay on Let's hear it. Okay. So here we go. Again, I so this this was, from, Jake Meter. I love I like this guy. He's from he runs a blog called Mere Orthodoxy. And here's here's the concept. He said, this post is inspired by a list by that someone else had posted on Twitter.

And he says, this is just the most ex here are my 15 proposals for ecclesial reform in the American church. This is just the most extreme idealistic vision I can come up with. The point is not if churches aren't like this, they're bad, or you should not be happy if your church does not do these things. Churches are imperfect, as my mom was fond of saying, if you ever found the perfect church, it would cease to be perfect when you joined it. There's a great good in learning to love the people you are stuck with, and that applies to churches too. But, also, it's instead as a conversation starter for talking about the practices and habits that churches could take up in the spirit of being both an effective evangelistic witness and a place where spiritual formation is taken seriously. I suppose you could call it a Benedict Option starter set. We talked about that a long time ago. I I I won't rehash it. It doesn't particularly matter for the context.

Okay. Ready? Here we go. Ready? Yes. Okay. One. Are we doing thumbs up, thumbs down? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thumbs up, thumbs down, and then kinda detailed if you have a a extended reaction. One, weekly communion with the congregants forming lines and coming forward to take the bread and eat and then drink from a common cup. There should also be elders on either wing of the space to pray with children not yet confirmed and anyone else present who desires prayer. And then additional detail, making the elders available for prayers of practice. I first saw it at PCA Church in Fremont, and it always struck me as a beautiful element to include as part of the celebration of the Lord's Supper. The children in that church will grow up knowing the elders, and their primary interaction then will be the elder praying for them. That's beautiful. I'm not sure I'm sunk on the common cup.

Yeah. I don't That's kinda icky. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the middle. I can't go up or down because there's parts I like and parts Yeah. I was gonna say, like, there's a lot to that. That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. I like elders praying. We have Yep. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. We we do communion every week. We Yep. Right on. We don't necessarily say, hey, come pray with us. What? Because you can't take communion. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You yeah. And the confirmation Yeah. That's the yeah. I think that's the iffy

yeah. I I yeah. I love the concept of, like, the the eldest praying for kids and everyone, not just kids. But Yep. Yeah. I dig on that part. Again, Common Cup, I'm not super or Yeah. So I I I think one of the the interesting like, if you get at the the holistic structure here is not seeing

communion as an isolated thing. I think that's ultimately what Common Cup is trying to protect in some way or another. Yeah. Is is a it's a communal it's a communal thing Mhmm. And seeing it that way. I think there's other ways to do that. But, like, I think the principle of of of saying we we as a church body are gathering in this way, not Ted feel real real bad for your sins and deal with your personal business in that corner. So I I think that's certainly worth protecting. I I just don't know if the common cup is necessary. But generally speaking, I'm with I'm with him on the principle.

Okay. I'll go with it. Two, morning and e oh. Oh. Morning and evening services on Sunday. Morning for lectio continua and the evening for catechism and congregational prayer. He said this isn't about trying to program people to death, about trying to establish healthy practices of Sabbath that help to orient people toward their ultimate end as human being. It's also recognition of the fact that the Christian faith is good and life giving, but also that it points complex is at points complex, and our churches need time to properly catechize people, time which many of them do not have at present. The evening service shouldn't be overly complex. Get a pianist or guitarist, sing a few hymns, read a few questions and answers from the Heidelberg Catechism or Westminster Larger Catechism. Pray together for your city, government, neighborhood. If possible, you could have a potluck dinner prior to the service and aim to be done by seven so the young families can get home and get kids to bed. OPC and CRC churches often still have evening services, and I think they can be done in ways that are life giving to congregants on an individual basis and good for the church as a whole. I didn't understand three quarters of that. Fair enough. I'm gonna be blatantly honest. Educate,

disciple, get have to get together, gather. Thanks to catechism. Yep. So, Dan, let me ask you this. So you don't do a Sunday evening service. Is that because people won't come? Yeah. Yeah. But you like, if you thought people wouldn't come, you'd do it? Yeah. Back in the day, we did Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night Mhmm. And then it slowly went to Sunday morning twice a month. I mean, it was so

to me, that's why people are leaving their wives. Yeah. Right. You know? So I don't disagree with the guy. I I wouldn't be as legalistic to say it should be Sunday night and this is what you do. Yep. But but I like the life giving thing. If it's something that people find value in, I'd at first, was gonna get excited. I thought he was gonna say every morning and every night kinda like the first century people. Be cool. And I thought, yes. Yeah. I'm off for that. Institutionalized program,

then it's like all of sudden Catechism daily. I don't know what that means. So what's so what's interesting is I think there's a there's, there and you'll you see this in in, some of the older Protestant denominations, and certainly in Catholicism. I think there,

again, there's an attempt to protect that people have a holistic understanding of their of their faith, which here's the thing, I very much sympathize with. Mhmm. Because I think it it is it is something that we are missing. However, like, I'm trying to make sure that I'm not, not trying to seek a middle ground just for the sense of not wanting to get in the middle of an argument. But, like, I feel like in general, you wanna protect that people actually understand what they're following. That, like, we've got a holistic understanding of their faith and what Jesus came to do and what that means for your life. And that's disciple discipleship. Right. It's what it is is to be without otherwise

focusing too much on on on only trying to instill head knowledge. This is where, like, talking about it as a discipleship format, like, rightly portrays what you know is invaluable unless it translates to what you do. And to that extent, I don't know that so that that every Sunday night is what does this, ex except for the prayer part. I'm super excited about the prayer part and the community part. Yeah. And and maybe if it's a part where we encourage each other, get energized for the work that's gonna happen during the month, I'm all for that.

So I'm not so much hung up on the catechism, although, like, I very much agree, we run the risk of people not getting a holistic understanding of what they're doing because we we we did kinda discard formality around anarchism type stuff. Yeah. I I there's there's but I think there's a different way to go about it that ultimately attains the same aim aim. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I'm I'm a I'm a so far, I'm all these, I'm, like, middle middle middle thumb. Yeah. Yeah. Parts I like and part I'm like Well, concept and, generally, would it be right to say concept good Yes. The exact nature of the method or the practice.

Yeah. Yeah. Execution's weird. Yep. I don't see I'm not even sure that I find it weird. I it's just different. I don't know if I do it. But to the extent here's the thing. There there are some there is a generational thing in here where because of everything else around you is loose, there are people, like, they're a they they want liturgy. They want things to grab onto. And here's the thing, is your your first century church had that. In fact, your the Jews had that. Like, these are people who are memorizing scripture. Like, what we would call excessive liturgy is part of their normal they just memorize scripture they had it to reach to and not not helping people create a bag, like, a foundational bag of stuff to be reminded of, I think is is is a miss without otherwise drilling it into them like a like their math facts. I think that's there's a spirit of it that you run the risk. And I I would focus on actual scripture as opposed to, like, this is our particular church denomination history. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. I don't I don't care when Joan Joe in 1410 said something. Right. I was like, I wanna know what Jesus said about

Yes. You know? So Yeah. That's that's that'd be my tweak. So so if we if we can just say, when we say catechism, we mean bible? Yeah. We're good. I'm good. We're good. Okay. Oh. Oh. Three, weekly corporate confession of sin and assurance of pardon as part of the morning service. Oh, part of the morning service. Says this is a common practice in all the PCA churches I've been part of. A PCA? What's that? Presbyterian. Oh, okay. Presbyterian Churches of America, believe. Oh, they don't have time for that kind of confession.

I know Presbyterians. Hold on. Let me do it. We wait. I don't understand this one either. Weekly corporate confession of sin, what does that mean? Yeah. Well, last week, I lusted at Martha over there. Like corporate, do they mean, like, in front of everybody? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Presbyterian Church in America. Yeah. So I wonder yeah. Like, do we mean I know so can we know some prescript let's check on this one. I'm kind of interested in what they how this expresses itself when people are doing it. But, like

Is there confession time? Like, some of some of the old school churches used to have prayer time. Hey. Share prayer requests and this is, share your sin. Hey, everyone. How have you sinned this week? Now so now hold on. Let me ask you this question, Buva. Is it is this a vital part of Christian life, the confession of sin? Yes. Then

what makes it inappropriate for a communal gathering? I I like the smaller intimate group. Like like the the old LTG model is is there there's two guys you can tell anything to. Yep. But I'm not gonna there's some level of stuff I won't say to the whole crowd in general. Yeah. Know me well enough to Yep. Yeah. I also don't trust the the the concept of telling possibly sixty hundred two hundred people my sin Yeah. And then them needing to know that from the perspective of them actually trying to help me out with my life and my walk. Yeah. Because like I can understand

I'm not against it from the perspective of like, no, I don't want people to know my sin. That's the I don't but like that's that's not the problem for me. It's just the thought process of like what kind of accountability are you driving? What kind of relationships are you developing with the 200 people you just told that, hey I have a gambling problem? Because hey I'm having you know. Yeah. Like it's human nature to cause bias with that, and I I think that that's gonna happen. And I think that that's gonna make people less likely to share realistically

Well and how things are really gonna go. Well so I think I think you might misunderstand what he's calling for too. I I I don't believe it is, like, individual specific. It is the notion of and this is where it gets liturgical. Like, for for example, here's an example of, when they we use the word confession differently. We think confess like I confess my personal sin.

Yeah. Liturgical backgrounds, confession is like a a specific thing. A doctrinal statement. Yeah. Like, for example, here so I'll read just a little bit of this. One of the confession examples is, to enrich me will not diminish your fullness. All your loving kindness is in your son. I bring him to you in the arms of faith. I urge his saving name as the one who died for me. I plead his blood to pay for my debts of wrong. Accept his unworthiness for my unworthiness, his sinlessness for my transgression, his purity for my uncleanness, his sincerity for my guile, his truth for my deceits, his meekness for my pride,

blah blah blah blah blah. It was And it goes on. So So it's just a confession that we are all sinners corporately. It is And we need Yes. Salve or we need forgiveness. It is a reminder of that. Now here's the thing. I also I like, it is perhaps in me to to never deny that, but, like, how much of how much time do I finish?

This goes back to a Calvinist thing. Like, how much do I finish identifying with that? However, it does allow for arrogance when we are not constantly reminding ourselves that we are this. Right. Right. Right. And so so, again, I think I'm going to agree in principle here, maybe expressing in a slightly different way, but I suppose it's a reminder to say this is this is a this is an element to the extent of which we are not if we are not willing and reminded of this, it does have loo caused the opportunity that you lose your center a bit. May maybe if they were, like, 52

different little sayings. Because, like, the first time you read, like, yeah, you're thinking, you're thoughtful, you're like, okay. Yep. Yep. That's true. But if it's every week, same little couple paragraphs And and check out. This is the same reason people give for not doing communion weekly. Is that same justification? Yeah. But I'm I'm saying do this do it, but do like a have a different a different reading. So my family does a prayer

on holidays for the food and, we say, come Lord Jesus be our guest, let these gifts to us be blessed. It's it's very sweet and and nice and it it just comes out of all of our mouths and someone initiates it and then we we pray it and then we eat. And and I can guarantee you that not a single person in my family thinks about it as they're saying it. It is it is literally just, hey, rolls will be in fifteen seconds. I'll say this and then get it over with. I told Jesus that with the Lord's prayer. I said, god, this is not a good idea.

What I'm saying is in any of these pieces, the the the matter is heart. It's it's not the statement that you're making. It's not the fact that you're making it. It's the fact that you understand where you are. I don't nobody don't I don't think anybody's saying that. I I just I don't think that the the phrases, help. I really don't. Like, I get your point of saying, like, it's good to have the reminder in a day. Why I told Jesus the Lord's prayer is unnecessary. I said that the phrases aren't distinct. I here's what I hear what you're saying. Wasn't that teaching people to pray, though? I I I think it is that is far more liturgical. In fact, the early church taught that as far more or used it liturgically in a way that we refused. That, like, we were, like, well, we don't wanna get caught for the same thing that you're arguing.

We don't do that in modernity. Most historicity would tell us that the early church used that liturgically. They did say the same thing, and they did say multiple times a day. That's why they went into the dark ages.

That's what happened. Jesus said do this. They did it, and it ruined everything. I so I I I'm not I'm not disagreeing necessarily with what you're saying. But what I'm telling you is is that, like, I don't have Jesus didn't have a problem with repetition. Again, they they all said the same psalms at specific times. They were used for specific functions. Like, I think we've got this bent that repetition causes boredom.

Boy, that's a that's a problem. But that's not the problem. That's not a word problem. That's a hard problem. And so do I care whether I agree with you. Do do I care whether you say the same thing over and over again? No. I don't. Would I use the same confession every week? No. I probably wouldn't. Because, again, I I think there's just a nature of reengaging someone's mind. But, like, I also don't know if

it if it's if we're going through the motions, it's not the it's not the word's fault. I guess that's what I'm saying. True. I mean, that's true. Okay. So I so, again, I so I I don't know. I I wouldn't probably take up these confessions, but is this is this at the heart of anything that I do on a Sunday service? No. It isn't.

It probably shows up passingly in prayer. And so, anyway, it's just a thought. I think that's I think in principle, it I think we need to be reminded of things. I think I think we often combine that with communion that there's a reminder for why we're doing this because, well, I'm a sinner in need of salvation. That makes sense to me. And yeah. Yeah. No. That's true. That's true. So, yeah, I I would say and in fact, that makes the most sense. We as a community are identified by our sin, but also by our rescue. These are these are symbols which otherwise points to that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's valuable.

Alright. Maybe we'll just hit a couple more. Four, Wednesday evening prayer meetings. These ought to be informal by design. The goal is that it creates a comfortable space in which people can come into the church, share what's on their hearts, receive prayer. I've seen this done well in several nondenominational churches that tend to do relationships in informal times of community really well. Wait. I'd be I'm all in. Yeah. I dig it. Yeah. Have you have you tried anything like this and it just like, just it didn't happen? It doesn't. They just don't come. People don't get excited about prayer. Yep. I tried to initiate it for, like, two weeks and then I sucked. Yeah. Yeah. It's just we are. I'm terrible at it. Cool story at the convention I heard this week. Part of this I've heard before and part of it I hadn't. It's guy was talking about historical revivals and and their connection to prayer. And, told the old story, was it the eighteen hundreds? I can't remember. In New York where some dude downtown said, hey, we're gonna do a prayer meeting at noon. And he put posters all over town and told everybody to come. And the the day the day came, no one was there. So he started praying, then he heard some steps while he was praying, like six people came. Yep. Six business guys. The next then they said, hey, afterwards, let's do this next week. Be like, okay. Posters again, 20 guys came.

It got to the point it kept growing and growing and growing. It got to the point where they literally shut down downtown New York City on that day of the week, each week for prayer because all the business people closed their stores and went and prayed. That was fantastic. And during that time this is the part I had not heard before. During that time and and and it's a it's a, like, historically documented. So it's not like some weird guy story that cares about your church saying, please. I mean, not not that there's anything wrong with that. But, during this time, you know, this this, communication is not huge. You know, know, they're not getting email alerts. They don't they're not watching, you know, the the twenty four hour news cycle. But ships would come in full of sailors, and, you know, they have a certain reputation about them. And he's they the the recorded documents are there was almost like a cloud over New York, and they would come into the harbor. And as they passed into the harbor,

every sailor on the trip dropped on the ship dropped to their knees and started weeping, and they wouldn't get up until a preacher would come and present the gospel to which they would respond. And it's like ship after ship after ship this was happening. And I just it's like, why don't we pray? Right. You you know? I mean and and none of these revivals ever lie last very long. They might be two years or six months. You know, they're all different, but they're never very long because we're that way. It's like, there's so many stories of people powerfully

powerfully powerfully being changed because of prayer that we don't freaking pray. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And maybe it's because we do boring prayer services, you know. Oh, yeah. We're praying for aunt Myrtle's hammer toe. You know? It's like, how about we pray for our nation? I'm

initiating in February at the Real Men conference. Dean Trune's coming. Anyway, part of this stuff all kinda came together this last week. We're gonna try to get 31 churches in the state of Iowa that will take one day a month and pray twenty four four hours. Sweet. You know? And then we don't care. They can be people in their own homes. They don't they can do a prayer room, whatever, just so that church can figure out how they wanna do it. And we're gonna call well, this is it's a national thing they're trying to get going. We're gonna be Pray Iowa, I think we'll call it. And we just want 31 churches. If you guys have been part of it, we're gonna we're gonna pick a day and and we'll figure it out every month. We'll have twenty four hours of prayer. And that way, four there's a like, in Texas, there's some church that's been praying for, like, four years That's awesome. Or a city a city has because no one church can really well,

they don't. Right. But they'll do once a month, 12 times a year. You can find 31 churches. The 31 could be a small one that that, you know, only has to do it a few times. I'm pretty I'm pumped about that. I I really wanna That's fantastic. Totally wanna make that happen. Yep. Yep. If there's I I read read a book, I wanna say, eight months ago or nine months ago called Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire. Yep. Fantastic. From Cymbalta. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great book. And I and, like, I had that exact same reaction. I started to read through it. I'm like, dang. Yes. What is wrong with us? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. We're in. We're in. Okay. So far so far, think we're good on some of these things. Alright. Oh,

speaking of a book. So I was at a bookstore. Was it this week? No. It was last week. I was at a bookstore. And, I was looking to talk to the manager because, I was trying to set up, like, a book signing because my my kid and I just released, like, a book, like, children's book. Yeah. And so I was talking about a book signing and, like, I could not find this dude anywhere. They said he's in the back, and so they went to go get him. And, like, this person was gone for fifteen minutes. And so, I'm waiting around the store trying to figure out what to do, and, like, somebody taps me on the shoulder, and I turn to look and, like, there was this weird,

like, trench it wasn't really a trench coat, but he had kind of the vibe of a guy in a trench coat. And so he whispered something to me, and I for the life of me, I couldn't tell what it was. Like, this is what I'm like, what's this is why I don't go to the bookstores. Creepy people in here. And so I I thought maybe it was just a mistake. Ruby actually bumped up against me, so I'm just kinda looking around waiting for this manager to come out, and he I feel tap tap tap tap tap again. And then freaking me out. Freaking me out. So, finally, the third time it happened, I turned to this guy and I said, hey, man. Do you just keep bumping into me, or what's going on? And he looks me square in the eyes. He like, he's he's wearing, like, these, they weren't sunglasses, but they're the glasses that tilt or the tint Yeah. In the dark or whatever. So they're, like, coming so so he takes them, pulls them down to his nose and looks me out and he goes, the pope is in town. And I said, what? Woah. I said, there's no way the pope and I don't even know why you're talking to me, about this. And so, I said, I I might as well know about it. I said, I do radio. Maybe I can talk to this pope. Where is he? And he hands me a flyer. And this on this leaflet, there's this rough sketch of, like, a popish hat and then an address on it. And I looked at the address, and I'll be dogged on it if it wasn't Buva's address. Woah. And I said, boy, sir, I I think you've been misled.

And so I I go to Buva's place, and there are people, like and Buva lives in apartment complex, and so this is weird. It looks like it's laundry day at the complex and that no one can get in. There's gotta be a 100 people out. And they're gathering around Buva's place, and they refused to leave. And so, ultimately, Buva had to give them to get them to go away, he had to kinda play the part of the pontiff and give some sort of advice like a pope would that was also kinda relevant to his life. And then, Bubba, what did you tell him? I told them that I'm gonna fight you. And here's why, I get sucked into these stories every single freaking time. Every time. Weren't even out of things to talk about, bubba. I

I'm just like, oh, man. I'm super excited to hear what this guy said to to Ben. How does losing go? Hey. That happens sometimes too. People whisper at me, and I go, oh, man. I didn't know. I should have known when you were confrontational with the guy that this was a lie because there is no way you would go, hey, man. Are you bumping into me for some reason? You would just be like, hey, man. I'm on your way. Alright.

Yeah. So a bunch of people showed up my place because they thought I was the pope. So I've been so so actually this is kind of stemmed off of of two circumstances. One is is, me kind of trying to battle addiction and I've I've probably had this advice five times over the last ten years and I I failed at it and I've done well at it and I failed that I've done well at it. And another situation was was actually something Ben you said to me, at like 01:30 in the morning on the drive home one day. Uh-huh.

And it's kind of just been swelling inside of me and I've been trying to turn it from like, man, I suck to some kind of righteous anger towards myself and towards my dispositions. But I suck at denying myself things. Mhmm. I'm terrible at it. Like, when it comes to the concept of being a humble man and being a man that that's heart should be full of Christ

and and that's my fulfillment and, like, that's that's kinda it. It is like, I'm excited. I don't care what's going on in my life. I'm not really worried about a lot of stuff as long as I can call myself a a son of God and a son of Christ through through through my relationship with him should be happy. But, like, I suck at that, and and I need to get better at it and it's it's kind of manifested within the last couple of weeks, since the beginning of this month actually that I've been a big guy my whole life and I I really suck at at food addiction. I'm terrible at it and and a lot of people will scoff at that statement and say, know, food is not an addiction and and stuff like that. Like, it's just, you know, you you really probably need to read a little bit more to be honest with you if if that's your full opinion on it and that's all you got.

But I'm terrible at that because it it it really takes a hold of my life and it really does. It's it's almost embarrassing, to the point where like I make really bad decisions and I make my food my idol and I run to that and that's my emotional crutch and like when things are going terrible, need to eat. And when I'm depressed, need to eat. When I'm bored, I need to eat. When I'm when I'm anything, if I'm elated about something, wanna celebrate with some kind of food. And what that's kinda turned into in the last month has been this this combined movement

of getting pass so to to frame this right, I started the Whole30 this month. Okay? And I've decidedly not really told a lot of people, because in the past, I've ran to social media with this and kind of lived on the the

fame from that if you will, like the the the constant flow of of feedback because I'm doing something good like You go, booba. Yeah. Exact exactly. Right? I I get I get the cheerleaders that got me going, and I'm like, yes. Absolutely. This is why I'm doing this is so people look at me and go, hey. Good job. When in all actuality, that means nothing. But this time, I really didn't wanna run to that, and I I kinda don't care if anybody tells me I'm doing a good job. I really don't care. I'm not doing it for you. I'm not doing it for you to think that I'm doing a good job. I'm not the sweethearts that say, oh, man. You're a role model. Cool. I'm not doing it because I wanna be your role model or look good to you. I want to be alive in ten years, and I wanna honor God with my decisions because it's not just, oh, your body's a temple, which it absolutely is.

More so, I'm not only not treating it as a temple, the temple's to the wrong god. That's my problem. Like, my temple is to the wrong deity. I put a cheeseburger

on my on my stand, and it's ridiculous. That's super poigner, booba. And so I hate that part of me. I absolutely hate it. And it it's it's manifested because I've tried so many times to start the Whole30 in the last year and a half, and I'm not gonna go into details of the program. It's just very restrictive when it comes to foods. You can't eat a lot of different types of food. You can't have gluten, you can't have sugars of any, unnatural kind, really. Even natural sugars aren't okay if they're not basically just in main carbs and fruits and stuff. Whatever. The the program specifications are not important. What is important though is that I'm having to deny myself any opportunity to run to food right now. Mhmm. Because don't get me wrong, I can cook a lot of delicious foods in the Whole30, but like, I don't usually run to zucchini noodles when I'm having a bad day. Like, I just don't. They're delicious when you toss them in olive oil and a bunch of different spices, but it's not really something I do. I don't I don't run to kale soup. It's just not my thing. I'm sorry. It's delicious with pork shoulder, but it's not what I do. And so in the last couple of weeks, I've had to practice daily denying myself that. And I feel so ridiculous that this this is this profound movement in my life is going, no. Buuva, you friggin' schmuck. You cannot in any way shape or form go to a gas station and buy anything except for the fruit that nobody buys or the water. That's what you get.

And I've turned it into this this amazing experience that I've had in the last couple weeks, of instead of just focusing on what I'm missing, I need to focus on what I'm fighting for. And, like, that's really turned into this run to to prayer and run to, just focusing on God that's been phenomenal. And, like, I still suck at this, and I still fail, and I still don't deny myself with pretty much anything else.

I'm broke all the time, but somehow I'd never deny myself things. I don't know what works. Maybe that's why I'm broke all the time. But, it's just it's it's been phenomenal because of the fact that, like, I'm not allowing my existence to be fueled and filled with fake crap right now, and like I'm not allowing myself to be kept together emotionally by something that isn't my savior, and like there's been something just refreshing

almost, and it's like being able to breathe for the first time in a long time, and I know that sounds dramatic, but it's truthful. And if you've ever had any kind of full on addiction like clinically diagnosed thing, you might understand that concept that it really is like a breath of fresh air of I'm no longer

controlled by something that I don't want to be controlled by, if that makes sense. And I know that I'm saying this, I'm literally like day 18 today, and so I'm not, you know, ten years into sobriety or anything like that, but like the first day was awful, and I had to run to God about it. And it didn't get better day two. I had to run to God about it. It didn't get better, and it hasn't really. It's been a struggle, but like this is the most worthy struggle I've had in a long time.

It's absolutely worth it, and and what it what has happened is through denying myself this thing that's one of my biggest vices and one of my biggest sins, you know, fine. We wanna talk about confession of sin. There you go. It's idolatry for me. I don't run to God. I do not run to him. I run to food, and I run to things that I can control and I can make. My dinner is my golden calf, and it's ridiculous. And so

eliminating that and running to Yahweh on this stuff has been phenomenally, impactful just in my in my daily dealings with with

starting my day asking God to fill it. There's a void whether it's an emotional void that I've created or is emotional void that's been created by other things that have happened in my life, whatever. I don't want it filled with fake and crappy stuff. I want real and I want true things. And like it all really kind of stemmed from, it wasn't even from my power. I had to pray right before I was doing this. I'm like, god. There's no way I'm doing this on my own. I I I cannot. I have to have you to even stop day one. Because day one when I told myself I'm done, I'm not gonna eat anything after that. At 11:00 that night, I ate everything that I had that wasn't on the Whole30 in my house, and I it was I'd imagine that's a hundredth time you've had the conversations going, okay. I'm done. Exactly. Right. 100%.

I I do not have the willpower to say that I'm done. I cannot do it. And and I hate to say it like that because I I secularly, I make myself sound weak and and there's fifteen years of stuff that make me hate myself when I say that. But like, I'm totally okay with being weak if God is strong there. Like and I suppose there's no if there. God is strong there.

And it's it's it's been super crazy, really. I mean, really has been like the clarity that I found on the other side of this just in a couple weeks of focusing on this daily. And selfishly, I'm getting healthier. Like there's amazing opportunities that are happening. I wanna be here for my kids. Like, I wanna be around. I lost my dad when I was 18 to stuff like this, and I hated that. And I'm terrified

that I'm not gonna make it to my kids being 18. Their kids are gonna my kids are gonna lose their parent at nine, at five. Who knows? And it just it it's it's been something that's been fueling a bit, but but even on So so, like, to to round that up though, like, what's the what's the advice? Deny yourself things. And it sounds simple, but it's the truth. Take us take some time, take some stock in your life, sit back for a second and realize what kind of things and what kind of sins are stemming from you refusing to deny yourself things that give you pleasure. Because guess what? That is not what is important, Not what's right. Your pleasure is not what's promised in this world and it's not what's supposed to be happening. It can definitely be an outcrying of certain things. I love getting pleasure from from the fact that I like I love Jesus and I I can do that, but like what kind of things are stemming from your needs of of,

satisfaction and your needs of being sustained for your own, personal crap that shouldn't even be fulfilled? Well, and I think that's that's the thing is that I I unless you focus on it, I bet you don't realize how often you are in prime and direct service to you Right. And how many of your needs or desires that you are actually not denying yourself. Like, I've I had a very and this is kinda why, you mentioned earlier, we were talking about this is because I had,

I was trying to to do, I think, a fast and there were some just some other things, like, basic things like, hey, I'm trying to spend less money on this thing and I'm trying to exercise and I do, like, I don't know, a host of other things. And, like, the things that were trying to stop me or that standing in my way of doing some of the stuff that I wanted to do were all basically just whims, things that would pop into my mind and go, hey, Ben, you should you could stop and get a donut. And I'd like, yeah, you know what? I I can. And I did. Right? And, like and there just wasn't, I didn't say no to a lot.

And I and I still don't, to be honest. I'm thankful that a lot more things don't pop into my brain. Because if they said, Ben, you know what? You could eat 10 hot dogs. I buy I might do it. Because, like, there here's it's it's the thing that comes with, a little bit of a little bit of money and a little bit of free time, and freedom as a whole. It's the very risky humanity that says, will I take this moment to serve and indulge

me, or will I take this moment to deny myself because I should? And and and the real risk, regardless of what your proclivity is, that's ultimately what it rolls up to is, like, are you willing to say no to something that is harmful to you, or are you going to indulge in it? And and I would say, like, this is where we run risks that other parts of the world don't necessarily is they don't have the time or the money or the freedom to indulge in some of the things that we have. And we have we have a deadly combination

culturally that gives us, like, broad freedom to share the gospel and spread good news. But it also brings with it the risk that we can just spend a lot of time ultimately, Bova, to your point, serving the wrong god, and it ultimately ends up being you. And I was very humbled, when I spent time thinking about, like, looking back at, like, the week that I had had, and I thought, I just don't say no to me

very often at all and that is scary. And I and it's it's scary because I think to myself, like, the things that are popping in my mind are rhythmically benign. Like, it's I don't know. It's it's this comes back to something we were talking about just before the show started but, like, you don't it it puts in the right perspective what you are capable of. Mhmm. Right? But but but for the grace of god, what I'm capable of and, like, again, good following of Jesus and, right study and right company and good community,

thankfully causes things not to pop into my mind, things I wouldn't even consider. But, like, knowing what I give into even in those kind of benign things, like, again, it's very humbling, and I think it's it's worthy to recognize that, like, that's what we're subject to. And, frankly, that's the same thing that the people where you're like, oh, boy. I can't believe you did that thing. Like, they're doing the same thing you're doing. Mine's just a doughnut. And and and and, again, good community, strong teaching, love of Jesus, holy spirit. It's doughnuts that are popping in my mind, which are a problem for me, but they're a different problem for Buva, and they're a different problem for somebody else. And so, anyway, I I I I would agree with that with that advice,

is just thinking a given week and think back, how many times did I have something that could have served me and I said, you know what? No. I bet it's less often than you think. Yeah. Agreed. Alright. Get off the boulevard. Well, it's not really a lawn. My back patio. It's like a walkway patio thing.

Get off the communal area with a dog. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Here we go. Let's do a couple advices, and we're gonna we're gonna split the hilt here. Dear life in the path. My wife and I have been married twenty seven years. We love each other and raised two beautiful children together. When we started dating, we were both smokers. My wife quit twenty years ago, but I continued. Two years ago, my wife told me no more sex until I do. Abby

or life in the past. This is why I'm not allowed to do it. I smoke only about 15 cigarettes a day. What? Only? How many is that a pack? 20. 20? Max of 20. This is under a pack. I smoke only about 15. Holy cow. I just I just didn't see that coming. I smoke only about 15 cigarettes a day and never in the house or car. I know it's terrible for my health and I need to quit, but I enjoy it. It's one per waking hour. See

see Pope style advice. So it's been two years since we have had any intimate contact. Wow. You held out for two years now? I barely can get a kiss out of her because she says she can't stand the smell. Yeah. You 50, and I enjoy having sex. Right on. I don't know how much more of this I can take. Is my wife right by putting her foot down like this? She has never been a big fan of sex, but she but she always satisfied me. I think this is her way of avoiding sex. I know she's doing it because she loves me, but I have a hard time accepting it. I have tried numerous times to quit and haven't used medication, hypnosis, gum, etcetera to no avail. Please help. All smoke, no sex in Michigan. Oh, man. Layers. Here's

the thing. My immediate thought is, dude, just give up smoking. Yeah. I don't know that I've that I'm that I'm supportive of the wife's position, however. Yeah. Like That force an addict to stop. Correct. There's a difference, like, if you the I'm sure that they've gone through rounds of him saying her trying to be supportive and she thought this was gonna break the thing. But, like, it's it's this is taking,

what is a problem in your marriage and intentionally creating another one on-site it and said, now I hope you can deal with this avalanche. And so I get it, but, like, ultimatums are risky for this very reason. And, like, by by doing this, you've tied two things. I mean, I there are some natural consequences. Dude, I'm not going to kiss you. You stink. Uh-huh. Right. I mean, you eating nachos is a similar problem. Like, your breath would be bad. As an ex smoker, you smell much worse than you think you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your breath stinks much worse than you think it does. So See, I have the same issue with hoo hot. Yes. That's what I'm saying. You're not welcome here. Yeah.

So, Dan, what do you do? What are you thinking? Well well, then I I I go ahead and I don't put garlic in my hoo hot, but that's a Good to know that this is the problem. Oh, man. So, Dan, Dan, your solution is to like, you just solved the problem. I I mean, I I think her intentions were good. She was thinking there's something he likes. Surely, likes sex more than smoking.

So let me give him a choice so that he will she's trying to help him, but I agree with you that it's not a good idea. And it's not working because he has a obviously, a legit. He's addicted to the nicotine. Yep. He he needs he he'll never stop until he wants to. So he just doesn't like you right now.

So he's getting he's feeding his addiction and not liking you and he's frustrated. Do you do you know what what makes him wanna smoke more? The fact that he's not having sex. Because well, and if he didn't because that's stressful. Wanna smoke afterwards. Right? That's that's that's new one TV. This is a movie from the nineteen seventies. I would say being a Nazmovir. I don't know how that works. No. It okay. Well, that's just a weird tangent. Yeah. So so now that's a that's a good point though,

Buva, is that so here's the thing. If if, like, if he wants to do it, especially after two years, like, at some point, this didn't work. Yeah. And, like, now, the the relationship of which he might be saying, look, I'm willing to sacrifice or

do the go the extra mile, whatever, because this woman loves me. I mean, you've lost your leverage in that area. Like, you can Right. You can fight for she loves me, I'm willing to try over and over again for twenty years. What you can't do is get that back after you've thrown a two year ultimatum his way and denied him sex. Yeah. That's that's rough. Yeah. That's Paul would say that's not a mutual agreement there. It's not the way to go about it. Right. I here's the and I sympathize, woman, with this lady. I I totally do. I understand it's he's he stinks. It's for his health. You you you tried to to to lay down the law to to help, but it didn't. It was and and frankly, I I wasn't ever gonna work. But what's what's it's the guy who wants the advice. Right? Yeah. And what is what what's what did he want from us? Is my wife right in this? No. Is she right? Let's

see. I got caught in the layers and I forgot the question. Yeah. Let's see. Is my wife yeah. No. Your boob is right. Is my wife right by putting her foot down like No. Yes. No. She's not better for remembering things. Yeah. I know she's doing it because she loves me, but I have a hard time accepting it. That's fair. Yeah. Now but here's now on the other side of it though, just recognize that you you've not given your wife a lot of choice here because I I'm guessing that there's a background to this that you've you've not quit.

And, like, again, I I know it's an addiction, so just saying, hey, you should just stop, it doesn't change your life. But, like, I mean, unless you're pulling out all the stops here, I don't 15 a day does not sound like you've made progress. That's a lot of cigarettes. That's a lot. I was right. That's one per hour. That's outrageous. Was gonna say, like, I I've been a two pack a day smoker. I've been a one pack a day smoker, and I've been a quick cold turkey smoker. It all sucks. But yeah. No. Absolutely. You've you've given your wife really crappy shake and she's given you a really crappy shake right now. And you guys need to come together as a married couple

and and actually communicate through this because both of you have needs and and emotional wants that are not being met by one another, and you gotta figure that stuff out. That's kind of the point of being in a in a marriage is is understanding how that partnership works. Yeah. And you're both human individuals, which means you have every right to to to have preferences for things. Like, if she doesn't wanna kiss an ashtray, that's perfectly understandable. I I feel like you can still have sex and not kiss him. I mean, I mean, I'm just being honest. Well, you're you're right. You right about that. Yes. And I'm not I'm not advocating that she's correct. I'm just saying that there has to be some kind of, amicable conversation that happens between the two of you

where you guys just express what you need. Talk. For god's sakes, talk. I'm thinking put in any other addiction. Mhmm. You know, does this work? Well, let me see your food plan before I embrace

you. That's right. It that seems it it seems very overbearing when you start talking about and things like that. And and and flat out ridiculous if you were to say, hey, you're having, like, a cocaine problem. Yeah. But not because No sex till you drop the powder. Right. Because it because it feels very ineffectual. Like, is a this you have a problem here. Like, I'm threatening you with something that doesn't actually get to the root of whatever the it's because, really, what she's placed it as this is where this is manipulative is, like, if you would love if you loved me, you would stop. Right. Mhmm. It has nothing to do with the deficit of love. Now Dan does love, his wife and does not eat the hoohat, garlic. I'm I'm not saying that there's not a there is a nature of, when you love something more than yourself, it is reflected in your actions. It's not a miracle to solve all addiction problems,

but it it is the energy that allows you to continue fighting. And if he's given up and she's used a manipulative bat on the other end, you there's you're not gonna this isn't gonna turn out well, I think is the point. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Secular says, forgive me if I lack seem to lack empathy, but I don't think you're aware of how the odor of stale tobacco affects former smokers.

It is gross. I do like the smell of smoke. I like the smell of some smoke. Cigarette smoke is not it. Yeah. I like pipes. I do well Pipe tobacco has a different sense. I I smoke cigars still. Yeah. And I love the smell of that. I smoke meat. I love the smell of that. But, like, cigarette smoke will make me nauseous.

Yeah. I I grew up in in two different houses with smokers. I like it. I've never smoked. My dad smoked, and I I still like it. You still don't like it? Okay. Yeah. My girlfriend has never smoked a day in her life. She loves the smell of cigarette smoke. Yeah. Yeah. Me and your girlfriend are gonna hang out outside of some sort of shady establishment taking in secondhand smoke. Oh, breathe that one. Oh, that a menthol? We'll be back. Oh, that was a vape. Dang it. Yeah. Get somebody jeweled. Get away, loser.

Whatever, Chad. I yeah. That's it. Hey. I called somebody a Chad earlier today Attaboy. For some sort of behavior. You Chad. Go punch a wall or something. Yeah. Where's a where's a guy huffing a Lucky Strike like you want? Okay. Because medication let's see. The smoke clings to the smoker's skin, hair, and clothing, and it's the polar opposite of an aphrodisiac. Because medication, hypnosis, you've never been on the Internet, gum, etcetera, have not helped you to kick the habit. What's left is the old fashioned way, cold turkey.

The American Cancer Society sponsors an event every year called the Great American Smoke Out. This year, it is on Thursday, November 21. Cha ching, secular and $2 for the plug. The theory behind it is if you someone can refrain from smoking for one day, he or she can build upon that for two days, a week, a month, etcetera. Many former smokers have quit this way, and if sex is as important to you as you say, I urge you to try it. Again, I'm not sure this is the most healthy way to talk about this. If you tell your wife you accept her terms, your situation may improve dramatically. Well, of course, it will. She won. This ridiculous gamble. Here's the thing. Now to his point, though, he seemed to insinuate that maybe she just doesn't wanna to get inhibited on. Underlying there. Yeah. There's no doubt about

Right. Exactly. She doesn't wanna dibbidi with you. Yeah. Dibbidi? It may be because you're a smoker, but it may be because, she finds you horrendous for other reasons yet to be named. Find Jesus. Find love with one another. Now,

no. I won't say it. Okay. Very good. Dear dear life in the past. The filter was a little late, but it it still worked. Well Well done. Discernment. I've been working through major anxiety issues with the therapist for the last few months. Sometimes, he's very helpful. Other times, he goes off on tangents talking about topics I don't feel the need to discuss Oh, man. And things that don't necessarily pertain to me. I find it frustrating. Maybe it's The Cosby Show. This is my client. I'm really sorry. I find it frustrating, and at times, it makes me angry. Although, I keep that to myself. How can I keep my therapist on track, or how can I break up with him without just ghosting him? You can ghost your therapist, one. It's totally okay. Here's the thing. Stop using Internet words. It's not ghosting. You fired him. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Just fire your therapist. Your therapist sucks. They went school to for this. They're supposed to be better. Yeah. I didn't If it's right for you, don't go. Listen here. I didn't ghost to McDonald's because I decided to stop going. I just stopped going. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a little bit different because you're built yes. It is. You're building a relationship with these people. You're literally opening up emotionally, and you do build a bond. If you just what so hold on. It's

only ghosting if you just stop showing up. Just say, hey. That's what they're proposing. That's ridiculous. That's not it's not one of the options. Just say, hey. I'm going to someone else. Thanks. Well could it be that possibly the therapist knows more than they do? Yeah. And and that they're getting to the issue that they don't think it is and because they have blind spots. That I will offer to you. Yes. That seems very likely. Just a thought. I I've gone to therapy sessions thinking, oh, man. I've got all this figured out already. And within thirty minutes, I was like, I know freaking nothing about myself. And they're talking about something. You go, why are talking about that? That's not me. And then two weeks later, it rounded back out to where he was like, I've been talking about this for three weeks now and you haven't picked up on it. Is it making sense now? Yeah. I guess so. Didn't realize that was all manifesting that way. They're like, yeah. It's because I went to school for this. I'm a I'm a certified brain wrangler. I talk to you people all day long. Yeah. Lee, my job is to lasso your thoughts and emotions. Let's do this. Well and I suppose that goes to the to a similar issue. It's like you find yourself not finding a therapist to your liking and you've gone through two or three, it's you. Thank you. And can I real

quick, couples that are talking about going through marriage counseling and then spend six years of an unhappy and horrible relationship because they just can't find a marriage counselor that understands me? Shut up. No. You're wrong. You can't find one that agrees with you. Yes. Exactly. You wanna be validated in your crap thinking, and the second someone professional looks at you and goes, you're

wrong. You are so entitled to hear the word right and yes that you are crumbling and running away from legitimate help. You boob. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Here's the deal. I I'm not saying that there isn't an iffy one here and there, but, like, it's it's not a 100% of your interactions with therapists,

marriage people, and even non listen, you go to that stuff and if you find again, you go to three different therapists and you find that, like, nobody's kinda hitting your aim, it's it's you. You're not open to change or hearing what other people are saying. I'm sorry. Just don't empathize with me. Because they do. And here's and that's the thing is that, like, this is where where, marriage counseling is a is a coward's way, to try to get their way. Well, someone else will tell my wife that they're wrong or someone else will tell my husband that they're wrong. Like, that's nope. If you don't walk if you don't walk into a situation like like that saying, I'm going I'm humbly willing to change,

then the therapist is not gonna help you. Yeah. I saw a meme on Facebook the other day that made me kinda sad. It was, for $300 an hour, I will dress up and pretend to be a therapist and explain to your spouse, why they you are correct about everything and they're completely wrong. And I chuckled for a second and they went, oh, this is crap. This is the way our society thinks. Yeah. I'm sure this has been shared like 800,000 times because people go, I'm always right, and my wife's an idiot. Like, what is wrong with you, you okay. Yeah.

Alright. So What's secular have to say on this one? So wait. What was our advice then? Oh. How can so the question was, how can I keep my therapist on track? We're saying not your call. Yeah. You're probably not the authority in this and shouldn't be the one keeping them on track. Yeah. We'll keep you on track. Don't mess with Dan.

I I won't say the g word because Ben will get angry again. But if you decide, you can fire them. That's not the same thing as ghosting. I agree. If you got a weird one if you got a weird one, they exist and you actually feel like that they're not actually helping and it's money you're paying, and so you have every right to just go, hey. Agreed. I was paying you for something, and I don't feel like I'm getting it. And so I'm gonna leave you and go somewhere else. It's okay. Yeah. Agreed. Seckler says, as a patient, you are in a vulnerable position. Many times, a patient will feel hesitant to tell a therapist that a line of conversation seems uncomfortable or irrelevant. However, because it is uncomfortable, you should not let that stop you. Your therapist may explain to you why he is pursuing the issues. You can then accept or reject that explanation.

You If continue to feel uncomfortable after that, you can disengage via a letter or a phone call. Ghosting is the coward's way out, and I don't recommend it. Okay. I've ghosted a therapist. Oof. Mean, you basically just don't make another appointment. Right? Right. Exactly. I mean, when's our next appointment? We won't be having one. But here's the deal. I don't I don't consider that, that doesn't seem wrong to me because because ultimately, it's it is still a working relationship. You have every right not to schedule another appointment. It might be a budget issue. It might I mean, it might it could be anything. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I just I

we misapply Internet words, and it bothers me. Because it because it here's the deal is it normalizes things like that. Like, this is happening all the time, and, like, that's not what's happening. It's a normal transaction. Final one. Dear life from the path. I I have a disagreement with a friend about the difference between a conventional oh, boy. A conventional affair and an online affair. My friend insists the latter isn't an affair because it isn't physical. My opinion is when you connect with someone online, you develop an emotional attachment to your online friend. This attachment is no different than having a physical affair. It can damage or destroy a marriage when you sneak around and lie to your mate. Do you agree? Yes. I do. Yes. I do. I mean, yeah. But I mean but it is different, but it it will probably end up leading to a physical affair. So, yeah, don't do it. Yeah. An emotional affair is an attachment and a cheat and absolutely. Yeah. They're just dangerous.

But is it actual physical no. But I mean, I would I could forgive my wife easier of an emotional affair than I can of a physical affair Agreed. But both need forgiveness. Right. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's not justified at the fact that it's a nonphysical is is what I would say.

I agree there is a difference. Yes. But, again, the justification can't be, well, we didn't have sex or we didn't ever touch each other. We never kissed. Because you will. Yeah. Well, even if you won't, even if it's someone that's that's across the world or it's someone online that you'll never meet or whatever, I I think that there is there's a semblance of desire and a semblance of needs that you think you you need met and aren't being met in the relationship that you're actually committed to being in that you're outsourcing for, and that's the problem. Yeah. So so I teach, in my church context, to a room full of all ages. Right? So it could be

six months old up to 70. And so there are certain parts of the bible that become interesting to teach through Mhmm. And that I don't skip. And so one of the things is as we taught through the gospel of Mark, adultery came up a few different times. And generally speaking, like, I'll use the word and I provide a definition, hopefully, that, again, we can bring some of the age groups along. And the the way that I would have defined adultery for them for the room is to say,

just think of it as treating someone as your spouse who isn't your spouse. So, like, frankly, I think we recognize the biblical context is expressing something physical. But generally speaking, the problem is is that you took something, a a means of a relationship, a physical intimacy, an emotional intimacy, something that belongs between you and your spouse, and you treated someone else as if they were your spouse Mhmm. And not the one who's yours. And so if I use, again, Ben's definition on how I think of adultery, yes, this is a problem. It can damage or destroy your marriage. If you're choosing and you're treating them like they're your spouse when they're you're not and you are already married, then yes, you have a problem. Does it fit, the biblical definition of adultery? No. I don't think so. I think that, like, that is primarily a physical thing but, like, the implications are are the same. I I agree that it still needs It's to still hurtful. Yeah. It's yeah. And it's and it's generally, to this the question was,

it can damage or destroy a marriage when you sneak around and lie to your mate. That's the you are still lying. Right. Like, you're representing a relationship that isn't true. You're hiding it from your spouse, which is implicitly a a falsehood. So, yes, you still have a problem regardless of whether you whether you would classify it as adultery or not. And so, yes, I think I think we agree that this is and same. If you go with the online as an all out affair, then it's like, I would have to I'm trying to think of like, I've talked to people multiple times who have had a problem with porn. Yeah. Does that mean they've had, like, 900 affairs? Does that mean they have a sin problem and self control problem? Right.

Either way, it's hurtful. Yes. But I just it's probably just how you label it. And and maybe you could, you know, make an argument of busting with you know, and so forth. Yep. You know, making that adultery. But I think I think that is the right way to think about it in implication, but you do approach the problem a little bit differently. Yeah. Right? Like, one is a marriage counseling issue. One could be. The porn stuff could be. Most of the time, it's a it's a it's a it's a singular person's

thing and they can work through it in slightly different ways and so but it does run the risk of having the same impact as those types or as an emotional affair or something like that. Yeah. Okay. So, yes, let's see what oh, actually, I I was thinking though, like, is the same line of trying to trying to to to count hair split hairs in this type of thing is where you get, again, into the Bill Clinton problem. Like, hey, man. Does a blow job count? Yeah. Yeah. It counts. Yeah. Yeah. You're hiding from your spouse. There's some sort of connection that doesn't belong to you and your wife. Like so, like, whatever gray area you think, well, I can talk to people online up to I can do whatever it is that didn't cause me to,

I I don't know, insert something somewhere. Like, whatever that is that you think you found an edge for, no. No. That that's not the way it works. Again, use Ben's broad definition of adultery. If you've treated someone as something that only belongs to your spouse and you're doing it with someone else, you've got a problem. Now now unless you've just opened the door for me to say what I was going to say Uh-oh. With the last person is Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, and smoking devices can all combine for a sexual experience. That's right. Moses, fellas. Put them in the bag. Roll them up. Traumatized in the last two and a half minutes of this radio show.

So that I mean That's what it is. It's where we're at. Yeah. It's where we're at. You gotta deal with the culture, booba. Where's your post house? I hit like this. Years ago? Yeah. Oh, what? Was it? Yes. '93? Right? '90 Almost thirty years ago then? Wow. Yeah. I suppose it would be. Get with the culture nowadays.

They're still talking about it. It's what started this avalanche. Now moveon.org, you know. It's what started this avalanche? Epstein didn't kill himself. Mean Oh, sweet sweet Moses, Moses, man. Alright. The hashtag. Secular says, cut at me, bro. Secular says, I do agree. A relationship that involves sneaking around and lying to one spouse is a betrayal regardless

of whether or not it's physical. Oh, good. Good. We found a buddy. Dude, this is what happens. I listen. When Mike Mike is handling this stuff, I'm not I'm paying to I'm more prepared for stuff. Hold on. I gotta find my end music. No. We gotta do the what the that's not it. We'll do do we'll do do all night this week. There it is. I

was just gonna sing us out. You've been listening to Live From Path. Thanks for hanging out with us. I really do appreciate it. Hey, if you really do wanna at me, you can do that on the Twitter. I don't really check it, to be honest. That's a Twitter's a cesspool, but it's at Live From The Path. You can try to do that. We're at we are on Facebook. Hey, we have been hovering three or four likes under 500 for, five years. So, like Really? Yeah. We've been, like, 497 likes. We we'll move up to four ninety eight. Someone else will get sick of us and move back down to four ninety seven. But it's been that way literally for, like, five or six. Ridiculous. So, you know, if we could pick up a few likes this week, I can buy them. I could like do a campaign and try to get likes. But like, that's not worth it. So Hashtag at me, bro. Invite a friend. Let's see if we could pick up a few likes across that 500 barrier. Give us a small victory. Alright? That's on Facebook. Looking for just search from Life The Path, and we'll be out there. I think that's all we got. We'll get the show posted up, and we'll see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Life From The Path.