Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. It

has been a comedy. It has been a comedy of errors as to our absence. Okay. So I'm gonna tell you I'm tell you a quick story. So, I mean, this happens every once in a while, and it seems to correlate around the time Boova's no longer around. Right. Soon as Boova stops showing up, for some reason, everyone's like, whatever. Dan's been married for forever, so he's gonna have his anniversary. You know I know. Mike's Mike's going out of town for work all the time when he hasn't gone… Been out of town on a Monday night for, like, nine months or something. And, like, I swear to you, I got the super COVID. It's what I… So got… I I don't… I I can't remember how long ago. Maybe six weeks ago or so. And, like, it was the worst. I've never been so sick in my life. Like, I'm almost 40 years old, and I don't recall ever being so sick. And for this long, I was, like, in bed sick

for, like, a a week before I saw any kind of reprieve. And, like, I was hallucinating. Mike… We were talking about this before the show, but, like, I was texting Mike about how I was supposed to help with a planned invasion of Shechem. Yeah. And then he text me on how he lost it. No. We didn't retake it. It didn't happen. Even his own hallucinations were against him. He didn't… He wasn't even victorious in the retaking of Shechem. Was terrible. Why did you drop your hands? And, like, I don't I don't know if it happens to anybody else, but, like like… So when I get a a high temperature, I start to hallucinate, but but, like, I'm aware of it. I'm like, I know I know I'm not supposed to retake Sheppard. I get goofy like that, but not… I don't… Haven't gotten that… Not not that far. Oh, okay. It's going under control.

But… And, like, my mind was going… And here's the thing is that maybe this makes sense to someone's end time theology, but not mine. Mine does not require any of this business. And so I'm like, this makes no sense to me. And I'm like, you're you're just… You have a high temperature and you're just going going loopy. But then, I mean, it doesn't take but twenty seconds later, I'm like, check them. How are we gonna do it? Yeah. Who who's who's a friend? Dan. The tribe of Dan. No. No. Not the tribe of Dan. And so so what… And I like… I also had… For some reason, I was trying to put a series of what felt like cubbies into my 2nd Floor. Because, like, we had just been… We just moved, and we'd only been in this house, like, three weeks, and we're doing construction all over the place. And, like, like, I was do… Was trying to do a a price list and a a materials list. And and as soon as I nailed down the materials list, my mind would go, you can't connect that to the downstairs. And I would like, shoot, I can't. But cubbies don't need to connect to that. It made absolutely no sense at all. And I tried to write it down so I could look at it, but like, I just… It was awful. Anyway… That could've been your next book. Companies don't connect downstairs. I've been fussed. And and other thoughts from Shechem. So

anyway, I was sick for, a week. And of course, you know, as soon as you're sick, they thought… They're like, you've got the COVID. And so I tried to call, and they're like, dude, you need to do a COVID test. I'm like, are any of these symptoms of the COVID? And they're like, well, fever and… Looks… It's like high temperature and hallucinations and loss of weight. They're like, yeah. That could be COVID. I'm like, doesn't that also sound like a 100 other sicknesses? I mean, aren't these the symptoms for absolutely everything? When someone says you're sick sick, you go high temperature,

maybe a little bit of coughing, and you're not feeling like eating. Lethargic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tired. You have a virus. That's right. This seems like a 100 different things. Like, no. You you… We think you have COVID. So I went in, and they tested for the COVID. And I don't know if if… Have anybody else been in for the COVID test, Dan? No. I've had one, but it wasn't the same as yours. Yeah. But you got to do the spit or whatever. Yeah. You could spit it. Let's do the full nose one. Holy cats. I was… I… Again, grown man. And, like, I felt violated. Yeah. It was like an attack. Yeah. Like –… Right here. They stick it up your nose, and then, like, just to the point where it really starts to hurt, and then they shove it up another inch. Oh, wow. And then they swab it around. And, like, the lady didn't warn you, which is probably her wisdom. She's probably done this a thousand times. She's like, don't tell them. Yeah. Because then they're gonna think she'll just lie back and then, boom, right up in there. So anyway, they did it. And it's it's… I know people are dealing with the COVID stuff and it's difficult. But, like, this has been months now. Six months, you figure they've got this under control. But, like, they couldn't get the the the results for, like, five days. But they won't see… They wouldn't see me for anything else

until they got the COVID test back. I'm like, don't we… Isn't this why we do the protocols, the masks, and all this business? Can I can I come in? But they wouldn't see me for anything else. Eventually, I go to this… They didn't quite have the they didn't have the test back, but they got… The the pulmonologist agreed to see me. And he's like, yeah. Even if they say you don't have COVID, you have COVID. I'm like, well, why don't we do the test? Can't can't we just put your expertise on the corner here, and we'll just save that nose poke? I did… Go ahead. Obviously, so they they want you to test for COVID before you come in. Yeah. So if you have COVID, but you don't come in or you do come in. Either way, don't you come in? That's what I'm saying. Yeah. If if they proved I have the COVID, they would let me in. Then you should come in. Then they say, let me in. No. You don't have the COVID. Just stay sick. None of this has made sense. Yeah. There's a break logic anywhere. I I grant that it's new, but there's a break of logic in here somewhere. Right? Everywhere. Everywhere. Every single where. I mean Everywhere. All of the wheres. The

virus only attacks some exits, not the entrances. It depends on which Walmart exit or entrance. I mean, it's like Yeah. They've let you… They've let me… Like, in fact, I went to another doctor and they said, well, you can come in this way. I'm like, these people are allowed to get the COVID coming in this direction? It was care about that. I'm like, I I… Somebody somewhere… And I'm like, for you guys, if anybody's playing softball or sports, like, there's weird things, like, can't sit on the bleachers, but you could sit anywhere else. And you can't be in the dugout, but everyone's still in the dugout. Like, it's just… What… And people are trying, but you you lost your head a bit. Okay? Anyway, long story short, they tested me multiple times for COVID. Nothing. I felt… I I still couldn't do anything. I kinda convinced myself. I went back to work. I worked from home. But it took a month for me to feel like I was normal. So, like, that's part of the reason, like, we didn't do a show for a while is is that Mike was out of town, Dan was doing stuff, but, like, I I just… I could not do it. I couldn't leave the house. I didn't wanna come here and get someone else sick, especially because we couldn't figure out what it was. So so how how does that work when you work from home? Are still, like, working? Are you still… I mean Yeah. You're you're you're… Yeah. Yeah. I'm working. That's pretty slick. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's pretty handy. Yeah. It's it's pretty nice. It's matter fact clock in. I was… Actually, here's the thing. It creates bad habits. I don't know if you other guys… Anybody else what what your work from home experience is, but like… So if I had to be normally at an 08:00… I have a standing meeting every morning at 8AM. I'd have to leave the house at like seven, 07:15, get downtown, get get… Walk there, get logged in or whatever. Now I wake up, maybe it's 07:52.

And then I and I turn over and I turn my computer on and I got my… I'm in my… You know, might be in my undies, might not be, who knows? And I take a phone call. And then I take another phone call and I might not get around to doing anything for myself till like 11:30. And it's yeah, I'm not sure it's good. I'm not sure that it's helpful. I'm not sure it creates goodness in my life. Anyway, so I tell you all that though, just to say that, like, it was just a weird set of circumstances of people traveling and me being sick. And and also, like, we could have come in and do, like, a two man show, but, like, we'd just been gone so long that I didn't wanna… Just I thought, like, let's have… I'll make you wait till everyone's back. So, anyway, it's a full house tonight. Nathaniel's in here with us. Dan and Mike are here. We're we're… Sorry for that long story, but we're glad to be back. Yeah. It's good to be Really glad to be back, actually. Yeah. So I I don't… Oh, hey. One other real quick thing.

Brian, if you're listening… So, like, I… We just fired up the equipment. It hasn't been on for, like, two months or something. And for some… Somehow, I missed a message that someone had put to the complaint line from a man named Brian back in March. And I I I really feel bad that we missed that because I wanna say thank you for for calling. I appreciate you you called to talk about an episode that we did about, like, when the COVID stuff started happening, and I really appreciate your feedback there. And then he had provided some Pope style, which is awesome. Which was pretty good, I'd Yep. Was… Do you remember what it was, Mike? Yeah. It had to do with if you're not… What was the exact word? If you're not inconvenienced by by the gospel throughout your day or spreading the gospel throughout your day, you're probably not doing it right. Yeah. Yeah. You're probably not bearing taking up your cross. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Anyway, so boy, I was super encouraged to come in today for having been gone so long, and and I don't I don't know if the Lord hid it from me or I just… I'm lazy and don't do things right. Either way, Brian, thanks so much for calling the complaint line.

It was just cool to hear your voice, especially because we we mostly get texts. And we… I appreciate you listening. Thanks for calling in. I'm sorry I didn't get to it sooner. So big apologies from us. I'd like to say we'd get better, but I mean, you've listened to the show, you know there's a very low likelihood of that. Yeah. Most of our feedback is just really negative comments on our YouTube channels. That's that's right. That's right. Most most of the stuff is going on over there. So I… You know, I was I was… You'd think we'd also stored up a lot of stuff to talk about. But here's the thing. Most of the stuff that's going on since we've been on the thing is the thing where I'm like, nope. Nope. We're not adding to the… Like, I'm not acknowledging that. I refuse to interact in that particular conversation. I don't know what's the matter with that thing going on over there. Like, it's it's speaking noise into noise. Well, and and actually,

you know, I've had multiple conversations over the last couple weeks that, like, there is so much going on that is absolutely unnecessarily divisive that speaking into it isn't worth it at all. It didn't do anything. And they are… And and and all those things are dominating, like, headlines and and and water cooler talk. Right? And I'm like, Boy, I've never had so much going on and had so little to say. Yeah. Like, I just don't know that I can speak to any of this because frankly, don't know if it will

even be heard with a bit of reason. Nobody's changing anybody. They're just making everyone angry. Yeah. No matter what the topic. Yeah. Right. It doesn't matter what the topic is. Folks are like, yeah, this is the way things are. I'm like, this is not the way… I mean, I realize that I've gotten older, and my interest in, say, political things or the way the culture is moving changes as you get older, you know? But, like, I don't recall growing up in in in, you know, late eighties through the nineties, graduating about 2,000 or so, like, politics was always like, yeah, there's always these folks that are disagreeing or groups of people that are fighting, but it is literally, I am this and I'm done listening to anybody else. And people are shooting each other over then it. Here we go.

And then if you pull… Like, if you talk to individuals, right? Like, I've talked to quite a few people that they just don't sit politically the same as I do, you know? They're completely reasonable. We have a completely reasonable conversation. Those are not the guys that anybody's actually talking to. The reasonable people that's like, yeah, I see where you're coming from. I don't… Don't think that. It just seems like it's… Where in the past, it's like, look, during, especially work, we don't talk about politics or religion. We live both of those things out. These are just hot button issues.

These are the only issues actually going on right now, and people show up screaming, ready to talk about it and fire it up. And you're like, how do I even speak into what's going on when you are literally just adding to noise? Right? You're just putting a big old pellet inside of a tin can and shaking it around like a like a a zophar. What is it? Zophar? What's that thing? The horn? Yeah. The Jewish horn? Yeah. Yeah. What's that called? Is it a zophar? Zophar. Isn't… Zophar. No. That can't be right. No. It can't be Sounds like a joke. I It call it like a joke. A big ram's horn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I… You know, so I I… So I did make this note. I remember I was I was just coming out where I wasn't, like, delirious, and it was, like, day eight of this thing. And I started to make a note. I said, like, I'm gonna write this down and I'm gonna look at it like three weeks from now and see what I think. And and I hate to… I I was trying to make sure this is a valuable Jesus discussion.

And I and I think that it is. And it… But it intermixes on how we think about our our country. And what what I wrote was free speech demonstrates humility. Free speech… The freedom of people to get to say that they want is a demonstration of humility. And this was around the time when, like, Facebook and Twitter were were basically saying, look, here's here's the narrative. And if you're not saying what… The things that we deem to be false or things that we… That don't align with a CDC recommendation or whatever, we're not gonna let other people see it. And and and what I thought of… Because I saw I I saw that, and I'm like, I mean, whatever. It's a it's a… You don't have to be on the platform. You don't like Facebook, don't get on there. Like, here's the deal, capitalists. I love it. For for all the for all the complaints that, no, you don't want communism, we talked about this, I think, like, four or five years ago, but you're crappy capitalist. If you don't like it, stop going there. Mhmm. Stop using the platform if you don't like it. That… Just like, well, I I I'll put my money where I want to. Well, you still keep using something and whining about it. And so I I… It's like, it… The people who go, hey, who knows about communism in its purest form, it hasn't been tried, I would actually submit to you, capitalist, that you stink at being a capitalist. Yeah. Right. You're not doing a very good job. It's like watching the guys who'd be like, ugh, I'm done with Facebook. And then you posted that onto Facebook. Yeah. You're real… I mean, you take three steps back and go, you know, I feel like it's antithetical to what I'm doing here.

And you… But you don't. You you put three exclamations on it, and you ship it out. Then you go, yeah. There's some newer platforms out there trying to be, you know, substitutes, and and they're even more negative because they're just drawing all the people who were being banned. They're full of those guys. So they're just on fire, and it's just like, I'll spend about five minutes and go, nope. Nope. Nope. So this is crazy, right? But like, I sent a Facebook message to Mark Zuckerberg. Mhmm. Like, knowing he would probably never read it, not a big deal, right? But like,

was reading about how some of his employees, they were banning against him, they're like, Hey, we're walking out or whatever. And I thought, whatever you think about social media or Facebook, right now, they're asking this one man to call balls and strikes

on a platform of free speech. Right? And so, like, at the end of the day, people were writing gossipy, half true things on cave walls. Right? As soon as as soon as humanity got the option to bend the truth or tell just the part of the story that they want to or, you know, or or slander a guy out front in the middle of everywhere, they did it. Right? And then now this guy is being tasked with do this so we like it. Handle your platform of free speech in a way that we like it. Free speech is not conducive to that. Right? Free speech is not conducive to people going, I love everything about this. Right? That's why it's such a big deal is because… What was that really

cheesy American President movie where they said, the freedoms in this country is allowing the guy that you hate the most saying the thing you hate the most at the top of his lungs, while you're screaming at the top of yours the exact opposite. Right, right, right. That's the gist of it. And so I wrote the guy, I'm like, Look, apart from all that's going on, I don't even know you, right? But at the end of the day, you sit in a very tough seat to call balls and strikes on the way that humanity interacts with itself. Right? And then and then you get put in the chair, whether you chose it or whether you created something that allowed it, you sit right in the middle of humanity going,

be referee of how humanity works. I'm like, what a crappy position to be in. Right. Which is… Did you realize, like, that's… What they're asking for for companies like Facebook and Twitter, and what they're assuming is they're like, hey, at any given moment in time, you know the absolute truth of everything in the world. Now use that to arbitrate what speech is allowed. Right. Yeah. That that is what lacks humility, is the thought that that can be true. And so, like, so what what I would… Sitting there sick and I'm just making notes into my phone with like no glasses on. And what I said was restricting speech makes a claim that everything that could ever be known about a topic either now or in the future is known fully in this moment. Right. How many times? How many times, like, as a humanity, have we just been wrong? We were working with the best that we had. Best and brightest minds go, this is how we think it works. And then we learn more about life around us. We learn more about the context of how someone behaved, and, like, our knowledge gets better. I don't fault, and you should not fault a humanity

for trying to work with the best that it was. That was the conversation that Brian called in about. That was the conversation we had about COVID in in March. We're like, hey. Take it easy. We don't have a lot of information here. You've got fallible humans trying to do the best with what they can. Learn how to deal with that. Okay? However, for someone to make… To to try to claim absolute certainty to say what we know now is the… All the truth that would ever be known. Ask people to describe the moral character of JFK during the time of his presidency. And now ask to say, well, what did we know about his moral character now? Well, we learned a lot Mhmm. About… From from people in his administration. And people will only say things after he's passed away, and it didn't feel like it was dishonoring to The con… Like, you didn't know everything then, and frankly, you don't know everything now about that man's life. And so it is arrogant.

It is arrogant to posture that you personally or any given platform has the means to say, we know what is absolute fact. We know the entire truth right now, and it will never change. Right. And you can't do that face to face either. No. Right? Like, we're just talking about a delivery system. Right? Like, the guy that can write a half truth or light a misleading thing or whatever, like, people do that to your face all the time. Like, when you walk into QuickTrip, they're like, hey, man. Good to see you. You don't believe that. No. That's not true. He's like, dang it. I Now gotta go clean the Right? Bathroom Like… It's all good. And so, like, people, I mean, all day, every day, are telling you half of a truth or a misleading thing or posturing in some way. Right. And, like, you're not able to detect this with the the God given attributes that you roll around with every day. And now you wanna look at an arbitrator, a man, and ones and zeros, and go, arbitrate this for me. You're you're a fool, man. That's… You're… That's a complete sucker's bet. And it's and it's even true… Here's the thing. I know I know you guys hear it from… Regardless of the media you look at, like, the media is not telling you a full truth. Now here's the thing. You're to blame for some of that. You are to blame for some of that. You won't read a 10 page article.

You won't. You rely on headlines and and a first paragraph of something to communicate to you that you've accepted that as what you consider to to… For your evaluation of truth has been to your own detriment. So yes, the media does do that. And again, like, I had nothing else to do. I'm looking at news and I'm looking at two different places, give me two different headlines for a particular article. And here's the thing, I'm gonna tell you this, you folks who are listening to me, you conservative bent folks, if you think that your conservative news provider is not guilty of this, you are a fool. You are a fool. Okay? I did… There were there were a number of articles where I went through and I read… I said, look, I'm just reading source documentation all day today. Like, I'm gonna go read the study. I'm gonna go read the court document. And then I looked at, like, various articles and I'm like, you're lying to me. You told me half a story, conservative news media. Hey, you told me half of a story, liberal news media, mainstream news media. Now, the the thing that differs between those two groups is the intent, the way that they're trying to influence you. But you are blind to think that any particular news medium is giving you a full truth. But that's again where, like, I don't… I know why they do that. Because they're trying to tell you a short story that you'll read. You are to blame for that. If you reject that and say, look, I will only read source documents. I'm not gonna rely on someone else to tell me this half story of… To get my facts, then this wouldn't be a problem for you. But you don't do that. You're to blame for I'm sorry. That's your fault. You blame the media all you want to. But until the last time that you looked at some sort of reaction

to to what everyone was telling you about, hey. Here's the here's the studies around the effectiveness of, what is that, HQC or something on on COVID. Did you go read the source studies or you just read someone's synopsis of it? Because if you didn't read the source studies, I don't care. I… I'm not listening to you because the media only has a few paragraphs to keep your attention. This is your fault. So the… Anyway, the the the the broad point of of what I was thinking was is, like, from a Christian perspective, and this is the main problem with how we interact with social media and it bleeds until how we interact and have conversations with others. It lacks humility. It assumes that at any given moment, you are in full control and handling of all the facts. And you know that's not true.

You know that you're lacking context. It assumes that we will never learn more of context, that no one anywhere in the line of information had any bias or misunderstanding or incompetence. These are all humans in any of these things. And so if there's anything to think of before you go spouting off your mouth about the latest facts that you think are irrefutable,

that you think no one will ever change and like the science is settled, this is the brilliant thing about science. The science is never settled. It's never… Science has a built in thing that says as facts change, we we communicate new things. Okay? Where you do not lack humility. That's what this is. It's an arrogance that say I know because I read from someone else who claimed to know who obviously doesn't entirely know. They don't have the vision of the world. They… They've got information from humans who are fallible. Now here's the thing. In humility,

you need to look at everyone else around you dealing with it and doing things the best they can. Alright? That's what we talked about before. But like, there is no high horse here. You don't have a grand notion of owning facts. As much as you think things… There's all kinds of stuff people thought was… Were irrefutable fifty years ago. It wasn't irrefutable. Things change. Do the best you can with the information you have, but your arrogance cannot stand as Christian witness. It simply cannot. And that is the behavior that I've seen on on on social media and frankly, that I've seen in even some face to face conversations is arrogance. And that is… It's the mark of the beast. Like,

arrogance is the prime characteristic of Satan to be able to have… To know who God is, to be able to have walked in the presence of Yahweh and think I have a chance of defeating this. That's arrogance. And like, if we don't learn anything, it's to is is to recognize when we are being arrogant and use your handle on non biblical facts that come from fallible pots of humans is your biggest risk for arrogance. And frankly, that's what's contributing to this explosion of stuff in our society. We know the minute something happens in the news, oh, I know the motivation of the guy who pulled the trigger. I know the motivation of the of the people that were marching down the street. Our world is way more complicated than you give it. It always is. It's always more complicated. It doesn't mean you can't call balls and strikes on things. Hey, you shouldn't do this or that. Hey, maybe we need to look at these procedures or whatever. But like, again, you do the best you can. But your level of arrogance around it, I think, is the biggest risk to Christian witness because it puts a claim on human facts over and above a submission to kingdom life and kingdom values that say, we walk with humility here. And that's what… That is the key. If I had to roll it up to something, it lacks humility. All of it lacks humility.

So be careful. And and like, it's… It means sometimes… And and and again, we've we've kinda had this discussion, but like, there have been times where like, I'm two weeks into some kind of major thing. I'm like, I feel like I should say something. I'm like, I don't know. I I… I'm gonna walk in in humility here and say, look, if I don't know where to speak, I'm gonna prayerfully put the thing that is bigger than me into the hands of the one who is bigger than me and say, look, I I will speak when I know things for sure. Here's what I know for sure is this is arrogant. I know there's arrogance here. I don't know all the balls and strikes of everything that you guys are fighting over, but I know that that we're talking about it in such a way that it reveals arrogance. And so I don't mind saying that. So anyway, Ben's big sickest revelation is, look, it's a humility problem. It's an arrogance problem. Totally agree with that. As this was

unfolding, all the COVID stuff, just all the stuff. You know? Yep. Yep. Yep. And the whole world's on fire. I I I thought I had to I had to scrap my my plan for preaching, you know, for this year. It's like, okay. Yeah. How to raise kids right now? You know, nobody cares. Right? Right. So I had… I started… I was looking for… Okay. I didn't I didn't know what to do. So I started going through Ezekiel. Thought, okay. It's kinda fun. Then I thought, actually, this is kinda depressing. The world's on fire. Ezekiel's saying, you're all gonna go burn. You know? Okay. So I thought, okay. I need to change. So… But then it was it was… I… What you just said was what kinda came to mind. It's like, need we need to talk on humility and and… So I went through the beatitudes. Oh, perfect. And and just finished it a week ago. Yep. Because I thought that we need peacemakers. We need people who are meek. Need, know, we need we need people

that are thirsting, you know, for for righteousness. And and even though it wasn't that long ago I went through that, I mean, been five years or something. And and it was just like, yeah. Yeah. That was just… It it was answered the situation better because, like, you're right. I can't speak for all whatever people. Right. Right. You know? But I can speak for Jesus and and he That's right. Tells us how to handle. You know, we're always praying for, you know, oh, if if if we just pray to god, he'll heal our land, blah blah blah. What if he's waiting for an army of peacemakers to go out and make peace? Right. We're waiting for him to wave a magic wand, you know, and and, come on. You have avenge, god. You said you would. Get off your butt Right. And be a peacemaker. Make… Like active making a peace. Exactly. Yeah. Anyway. Man. Well, and it take… And that's the thing, is it takes it takes it takes humility to say, I don't know all the answers, but here are the here are the things Jesus told me that I know for sure, and so I'm gonna go do that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna do that. Even in face of people who who wanna argue about it. Because like, it's just so… It's so difficult

to to to the stuff to stuff that you read and like, you you read one account of something, you're like, oh, yeah. Totally. I totally get what's going on here. And then you read a different account and you're like, oh, well, maybe now it's a lot more complicated than I thought. And like, there's human evil in there and there's human natural human bias, like, not even intentional, not even malicious. Yeah. And and so you're hey, man. I can't sort… I will never know all the facts. I just can't know it. It's… Yahweh gets to know everything. I have a limited scope. And so with my limited scope, what are things I know true? I know that the meek… The humble and meek will inherit the earth. I know that we're called to make peace, especially with people who I don't wanna make peace with. And so, like, if we can just ground ourselves in that and and, like, if if you're not… Damn, that's a that's such a great thing to think about. Like, is is is my… Is what I'm about to say, either in person or online, align with the values of the kingdom lined up in the Sermon on the Mount? And if they do not, the fact that you claim to… That you… Most of your fights over one piece of datum. Here's here's a piece of data that I said that you said was this and I say is this. It was 6%. Now it's blah blah blah. I mean, okay. Yeah. React to the best that you can, but, like, is that what we're gonna go to the streets on? Let's go to the streets making peace. We're gonna go to streets over this data point coming from other fallible humans Right. Who who collected the data from other fallible humans who may or may not be influenced by other fallible humans. Like, okay. Like, you can only control so much here. And that that was my whole question on that, is are we agitators or peacemakers? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Most of us would just add… We we will take our slant on, well, here's what my science says, or here's what, you know, my article says. And and we're only posting that to agitate. That's our… That's only why we're doing that. That's right. That's right. That's I mean, you know, in general.

And and it's like, yeah, don't think we're called to It do it it's… There's even an arrogance in saying, I I want everyone to know that I own this perspective. Yeah. It is it is mine. When it aligns to being right, because I think it is, I want you to remember my name was associated with it. I was the guy who thought that. I'm like, you arrogant bastard. Is that… That's really what we're after here? Right. And I think Paul speaks almost directly to that in Galatians. Right? He says, they're making much of you for no good reason. Right? You want them to make much of you, and it's okay to be made much of for the right reasons, and that's not why they're making me… They're making much of you. They're making much of you to your own glorification, and it's a disaster. And right, that's what an agitator is. Right? You make much of me either being right or being the counterpoint or being strong in my beliefs, and and, like, you're just in there to throw muscle. Yeah. Yeah. And I I hear… Like, I know what some of you guys are thinking. Like, some of you are like, but doesn't the truth matter? Yes, it does. What I'm telling you is it lacks humility for you to think you have a claim

on the true facts of the world. I think you can under… I think you can know the true facts of the kingdom because Jesus outlines those. But your ability to be… Like, with absolute certainty, to own the true things of human behavior and circumstances coming from third party to third party to third party through bias and bias and bias, I'm telling you that whatever you think you're holding on to is not near as firm and you can't be near as confident in as the truths of the kingdom. And so if you gotta pick something to lead with, let's lead lead with the thing that you know for sure from behavior and worldly focused perspective. And then, I mean, yes, pursue truth. Do the best you can with the facts in front of you. But like, just know that as a human, you just do not have the ability to see a full picture. And I promise you, like, you've when you've done… A lot of the work that Dan's life has been serving Christ is you is you you get pictures into people's relationships. You get pictures into people just before they're dying or they're… Because when they're dying of something. And, like, being in the midst of humans in those situations,

you start to get a lot of context that you go, I didn't have all the facts when I last interacted with him about this thing. Or like, holy cats, I never knew. Right? When's the last time you tried to help somebody with something? Or right, like someone came to you with a problem. They're like, I'm having a problem with this guy, or me and my wife are struggling, or my husband's being a real blah blah blah, and you're like, yeah, he and I'm like, I can't tell what's going on. It has honestly been… Probably the biggest struggle for me is I will get involved with things, and I'll be three steps in and go, I have no idea who's lying to me. Somebody's lying to me. I cannot tell what the truth is, right? Maybe both of them. Maybe they're both lying to me. I just, I have no idea what's going on. And then, like, I have to fall back and go, God, I don't know. Like, I wanted to help, I got good intentions to get in the middle of this and deliver a strong word if it was needed and comfort this here, and then I'm like, somebody's lying to me. And I don't know what's going on, so I guess I'm out. I don't know, man. Just…

Like, don't think that people are doing that any different to you, right? It's just constant. It's just absolutely constant. And frankly, there's a portion of, and Christianity falls into this, right, where we tend to start worshiping truth. Truth is no doubt a good thing, but it's not the worship. It's an idol. And so people be like, And here's the deal. Here's the thing that I noticed. Here's the

center of the thing, and I want you to know that I saw it, you know, and I picked it out. And that was… They teach you this when you're dealing with kids that have… If you're working through adopting kids or kids that have grown up in a certain environment, it's the relationship you're there to maintain. That's what you're there to maintain. You can't die on every truth hill or misbehavior or whatever. Your job is to protect your relationship with that kid. If you took that exact same approach to humanity,

right, the truth of the thing, there's no doubt it is important, but my relationship with you is the thing that I wanna save, is the thing that I'm willing to put time and effort and whatever into. And I would say our current state of affairs is not that. Right? Like, I'm willing to burn every relationship I got so you know that I think the coronavirus is stupid. Okay? I mean, I guess if you want, you know? And so, like, same thing with with whatever whatever thing that you wanna pick that you don't think I understand wholly. And the truth is, I don't understand it wholly. That is true. I don't understand the whole breadth of it or the thing. I I don't. Any of it. Even the stuff that I could half believe. I I don't I don't understand understand it completely. You know? And… But you're you're willing to burn me. You know? I'm I'm sacrificial to you, opposed to

mask wearing, or not wearing masks, or, you know, whether I March or don't march, or whether I think this happened or that didn't happen, or whatever. Right? You're willing to sacrifice me as a human and everybody else that doesn't want to… Or or is having a hard time seeing what you're getting at. And that's a horrible perspective. Right? Like, that's just tough. You don't agree with me, you're out. I will burn every friend I got. I've seen people post that on social media more than once. Oh, man. If you believe this and this and this, go ahead and take me off your friends list. Okay. Great. Because you sound like a jerk friend anyway. Yeah. I mean, you're willing to get rid of me based on one news article that I didn't even actually pay attention to. I'm not a 100% on what's going on. I'm reading the same thing you're reading, and I'm up in the air about it. I'm like, I don't know if it's true or what exactly happened or whatever. So I don't know. It's sad. It really is. It's totally defeatist

and not a love of people, and it's number two on God's list. Right? Love me, love people. Right? Love me, do what I tell you to do, and then love your neighbor as yourself. Two big commandments cover the big fat part of the book in the front, and we're really failing at the two. The number two thing. We're probably not doing great at the one. Right? But like the number two, we're not even trying. Right? We're just like, love, not necessary. That guy refuses to wear a mask. He's out. Like, he'll give you if you wear a mask. That's right. That's right. It's it's just so difficult. You know, it's… And I know… And and and then I I I again, like, I I I know it's easy to be like, well, what do you guys mean then? Just because we can't know everything in the world, what am I supposed to do? Nothing. No. That's not what we're saying. Right. What we're saying is the way that you approach everything

should have… Should be undergirded by the by the humble notion that, like, you know that you're not in control of every perspective and bias. You know that. And so knowing that means how you approach a situation should be reflected in that humility. Not that you don't approach it, not that you don't do the best you can with what you have and the brain that God gave you. But if you… But if if the way that you approach it reeks of arrogance that claims that you know more than you do, and that you don't recognize that that inherent human bias and misperception and agenda

doesn't exist in the person marching the street and in the police officer that responded to something and the news media that covered it and your uncle who read it and forwarded it on to you in a Facebook message that said you gotta share it because the truth must be known, then you're a fool. That's arrogant. That's what I'm saying. Do the best you can, but but like anything that doesn't reek of of humility because you recognize that you are you are a limited human and so are everybody that you dealt with that day in every medium, that's where you're getting… That's where you're gonna lose it. That's what I'm telling you. It's your attitude that that approaches any given situation. That's interesting. Right? Because like, what's humility look like in some of the in some of the big things going on. Right? If you think masks are stupid, you should wear your mask. What do you care? I mean, really, what is hurting you? Humility goes, wear it. If you absolutely… You should be walking up to every police officer going, man, I'm sorry. I know this is a mess. I I really am. I'm sorry. You should be walking up to your black friends and go, man, I'm sorry. I know this is a mess. I'm I'm sorry. This has just got to be rough all the way around. Right? There's all kinds of situations that I don't understand. Right? I knew… But I do know that there are hurting people, and like, I don't want them to hurt. And I know it stinks. And there is truth, and there are things that have to change, and there are things that are flat out wrong. And we're not saying not to get behind those things, right, and be a force for changes that are good for people. But your basis still should be on loving people, not hating a group of people. Right? If your motivation is because you hate the group of people or this other group of people, you're already setting out wrong. If your motivation is because you love this group of people and you wanna see things change for the better and this other group is causing the problem, yeah, you're at least half started with the right motivation. But if your motivation starts with, I just hate those people. I just hate them. Well, then you started out wrong. You left the house wrong. You should turn around. People are making much of you for the wrong reasons. It… And and actually, to to the to the Beatitudes point, it generally costs you something to make peace. Mhmm. Make make peace requires an effort. It requires…

As a matter of fact, this is so weird now that you brought this up. I remember teaching on here on on part of the Beatitudes. And it had to do with making peace. And I remember this… The story that I had at the time was about it was like Thanksgiving morning, and my my wife and my oldest daughter were arguing over their… Of her hair. My wife wanted her to have hair a certain way because it was Thanksgiving. We were going somewhere. And like, there's absolutely… I wanted nothing to do with this conversation. Like, I'm not going into that bathroom. This is gonna be awful. And I thought, I was supposed… I I

I helped broker peace between the ladies in my house. And so I went in there and I brokered peace. And we got people and people did hair that was close to what people were looking for and ultimately, we left the house in a peaceful situation. And I didn't want any part of walking in the middle of two people arguing. But now, I get it. In in the realm of what we're talking about, that seems like a shallow example. But like the point being is that, like, it costs you something. It's easier to sit on the sidelines. And here's the thing, trying to broker some sort of peace between your… Dan's been here. Mike's Mike's been here. Nathaniel's gonna be Between your daughter and your wife is a very delicate balance. Oh, boy. It is very delicate. Because like, you can come in there going, look, you will listen to your mother blah blah blah. You're gonna have a hard time brokering peace that way. But you can't be like, look, I know your mom's overreacting, so just do this thing. That's that's not brokering peace either. Yeah. And so, like, it's a difficult thing to walk into because you love both parties and you just hate to see them arguing. And so the point being is that, like, it's wrong to think that it's not gonna cost you something. That like you don't have to swallow a little bit of yourself. Because here's here's… I'll tell you this flat out because my wife doesn't listen to the show. I don't care about the hair. My kids wanna go and wear their hair however they want to take. See I'm like, nobody cares. This is not a big deal to any… To me at all. I don't care. I'm totally on the side of my daughter here. But but here's the thing. It's like, it's not about me. That wasn't about what I think. It's not about protecting and showing everyone, hey. Everyone's overreacting because I don't care about the hair. It's finding a way to make peace between two people regardless of what I think.

And so it's… It it will cost you something. It will mean that you don't… Like, it's not about you and you spouting your beliefs. It's about listening to why these people are arguing about this type of thing. And like, yeah, I get it. Sometimes, there's just people who never gonna listen. Okay. Don't burn all your time over there. Go… But but but, like, it takes effort, it takes time, and it will cost you things to make peace. And if it's not doing those things, back to Brian's point, like, you… Maybe you're not bearing your cross here. You just wanted to… We wanted to stay out of But, like, you got… Most of us are on social media going, boy, it sure takes a lot of time and effort for me to spend all this time pissing people off. Yeah. Man, I'm I'm I'm so wasted on this. What an effort. Yeah. Boy, I've been tearing up the the newspapers all day. You've been doing what now? You've been doing nothing.

You haven't been doing anything. People used to at least write signs. Right? Put them… Get the markers out, cut a board. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're not even doing that. We just get on cling and click. Take that world. Bizarre. Oh, man. Alright. Hey, I mean, I don't know we come back from the show after months and then do something heavy, but like, anyway, those are my rambling notes. It's been a heavy couple of months. It has. Right? Like, and I think you can probably say, I did not think that, like, the prolonged way that this is going was taking a toll on me until I realized it was. I

think it really is, actually. And I don't think there's a need to put a fancy media word to it or anything, but at the end of the day, people they're not community as they were. You're not free to community as you would. The freedom that you had to stop by and just talk to a guy or go help him put a barn up or you know, help him change a tire or whatever. Like, it's just… You can't even stop by off the road and help a guy change a tire anymore because he might kick you to the curb and be like, woah, woah, woah, woah. Hey. You got a Trump bumper sticker? I don't want your help. Yeah. Come on. Get out of here. You know? It was on the car when I bought it. Yeah. We were driving around that giant van. Do remember that van of Sean's? Yeah. That green one? It had a Fred Thompson sticker on the back. Yeah. And every once in a while, someone would, like, comment on it. I'm like, first of all, Fred seems like an alright guy. But… And he was dead by then. And then second of all, really? This is the thing that rubs you the wrong way? A guy who lost a primary,

like, eight years ago? What's the matter with you? People are weird. My my my wife works at a a school, And, you know, she she right now is just in the office. Yeah. And and she had people all day today calling in and just yelling. Oh. And just… You know? And and so she's pretty beat up. She comes home and says, well, here… You know, it's where everybody's at right now. You're you're the dog. Everybody's kicking. Yep. You know, it has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with the school. Everybody's upset at everything. Yeah. And they don't know how to express it. And and, you know, they're just… Yep.

And she knows that. I mean, it wasn't anything she did. Yeah. Was still hard. Does feel long. That feeling like, look. They don't actually mean this. One gal called, we can't log in. You know, are you gonna help me? He says, well, are you in the settings? And I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. Are you gonna help me? She kept saying, well, are you… Did you go to the settings? And she finally hung up on her. The gal hung up on her. And she's just like… It's where people are at. I had the same problem. Like, our girls are doing online school. Right? And so, like, they're like… It turns out, like, some of the classes can't be done virtually,

and so, you know, they're like… So so they end up having, like, first, second, and third period online, and then they don't have a class again till sixth period. And I'm like, what time do the periods start? You know? And they're like, nobody answers me. So I emailed the school. I'm like, look, man. It's easy when you're at the school to just keep rolling into the next one, but like, what time does she need to come back online or whatever? And no… I mean, I get to zeros. No one can answer me. No one's… I'm like, what is happening? Why can't I get this simple answer? I'm trying to help the kids show up when they're supposed to. I'm like, well, it's easy. It's six period. Well, what time does that start? The world does not work that way. I don't divide my workday up into seven different sections and just happen to roll into it. I need to know what time to be there. It's early out, cause that makes it a different time. Yeah. Right? And and and to this day, no one answered me. But I I got nothing until You gotta call my wife and just hang up on her. You'll feel better. Text me over to documentation. So so my daughter, finally, they have a day where they ever go in, and she took the wheel. She wrote it down. Every period, she wrote down what time it started. She's like, Here, leave the school alone. I wasn't fired up about it. I mean, irritated me, but I wasn't that fired up about it. I know why they're not answering me. I… It really is. I mean, it's just people are just high strung. It's a mess. You know? And and, like… Yeah. I mean, I've been taking it poorly as well. You know? Like, even some of the things, you know, they're like… This this… The virtual school's been kinda tough. Yeah. Like, I don't know what's supposed to be going on. What a hard thing to figure out. Like, regardless of what it what it Instantly. Yeah. I… Like, I mean, it's… So here's the thing. It's that, like, it's really easy to get caught up in whether you think it's justified or not. Right. Or whether you think, hey. They should never set foot in a school again or everyone should be in there spitting on each other. Like, whatever your point of view is, like, can we at least recognize

that, like, there are massive groups of educators trying to figure out the impossible. Yeah. Right? In addition to the fact… Remember we had this conversation about even we were talking about defunding the police and saying, look, there's probably room to have a conversation of how much are you asking your police to do to be guidance counselors in addition to people trying to keep other people from committing crime or to find stuff? Like… And we talked to this about educators too, is that the one of the main things that happened as soon as the the virus, the corona stuff hit, it wasn't like, hey, man. Where kids gonna get meals? I'm like, boy,

you you forget that, like, maybe the school system is overloaded with stuff that they shouldn't have to be doing. Like… But but but… So now think of this that same burden and the stuff that these folks are worrying about. And, like, these are impossible things to solve. And not only, like, hey. What are we gonna do about school? But then they're also thinking, how do we how do we feed this the the kids that are homeless? And how do we find… What about the kids who don't have Internet? Like, these are impossible situations that the sinews of the schools are trying to do, and, like, you're not gonna find a perfect answer. Mhmm. Some kids are gonna feel left out, and and and maybe even they're being left out emphasizes the nature of their worldly situation because they can't get a ride anywhere, and the bus doesn't go over to this place, and they can't get a meal. Like… And there's, you know, 27 languages You're right. Spoken. Right. And then you got a face mask on, so you you don't realize how much you rely on reading lips. Looking at lips. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, I I… And this one, they're speaking muffled. Right. Right?

And these are… And, like, they're just so difficult situations. And then you're and then you're asking your educators, one, try to figure this out, to learn a new system, to make it feel like they have confidence in it. And here, this is coming from… We homeschool. But, like… So it's, like, we're not dealing with any of this, but, like, I I… I'm not an idiot. Like, I totally sympathize with the problems they're trying to solve here. And, like, they're probably stressed out. And then, like, if if a teacher's trying to do their best to not seem like they're stressed out because they have to guide other people and not be stressed… And, like, your pastors are in the same position. They're trying to figure out these situations and then lead you in a way that doesn't make it seem like they're frazzled when they got a lot going on. And so, like Now here… Here's what's funny, though, about about the the pastors, though. Yeah. It is… I mean, we're talking, like, an hour a week. Also true. Yes. Also true. We're not talking seven hours a day Right. Of teaching lesson. You know? Yeah. Because I'm on the preacher's groups. They're all going crazy. And, oh, we're all gonna quit. We're all It is over. Everybody's terrible. You know? Everybody's gonna resign. I was like, dudes, how'd you like to be a teacher right now? Right. You know? Right. Who has a new sermon every Wait a minute. Doesn't have services. Well, pastors. No. You know what? I'm out of here. I just can't I can't do this anymore. This is too much burden to me. You can do anything through Jesus, but not an hour a week's livestream. Right. Fixing… Right. Fixing the preacher problem is like, you need a laptop and a competent 17 year old. The beauty.

That's not the same problem. And it's okay if it's not Hollywood. I mean right. Reach out to the youth. They'll get you they'll get you spun right up. You'll be running a show in no time. That's… Yeah. That's a good point. But, like, again, it it just comes down to humility. Like, it is arrogant for you to, like, pry… To prioritize all the problems or all the facts that you wanna straighten out in the world and forget that whatever level of disagreement or lack of engagement you have with a bunch of other things going on in the world, like, as a as a as a dad whose family exclusively homeschools and have forever, I I can still reasonably look at the public school systems like, what a burden. What a difficult thing to solve. Those folks have just got to be worn out. Yeah. Right. Along with the pitchforks that are outside in the fire. Right. They're like, what did you choose? Boo. That's right. I have no judge… Like, I've seen… Like, so I… We actually… We do enroll until, like, there's… We go… Our kids go attend for, like, four… Three or four hours in a in a local school district. And, like, I've seen their Return to Learn plans. I'm like, good effort. This is a great effort. Like, I know this is not perfect, and you're gonna learn as you go, and someone's gonna get COVID, and the whole thing's gonna blow up. But, like, you know,

like, there were… I have quibbles about them. Like, well, that's probably not the wise decision. Hey. I think you're probably overreacting here. But what the heck, man? They're they're doing their very best in a very difficult situation. Just be kind and humble. Right. Right. If you had this figured out, you could be president, but you don't. Alright. Alright. Okay. Sorry. A couple funny… I thought these were funny. I… And now I that look at them, I suppose someone could find them divisive, but I thought these were funny. There was there was an article, and it said only three percent of US Hispanics use term Latinx. Did anybody see that? No. Don't know what that is. Seven… Okay. That that was their same reaction. So the so… I think you're pronouncing it wrong. How how is it said? Latinx. Latinx? Okay. Okay. This is why the same… Well, no. I get it. Isn't it Latinx?

This is why I'm not allowed to use it. They need a space or something. Right. Oh, go ahead, Ben. Wait. Hold on. Say it again, Nathaniel. Latinx. Latinx. Okay. So they come up… They came over that says, Latinx, a gender neutral term for people of Latino origin. And, like, this is something that, like, AP writers and people who work in the media have come up with, so as not to offend people Yeah. With the language. Right? It's a gender gender neutral term, so they don't say Latino or Latina. Okay? I mean, there's also functional means for it. That way, don't have to go Latinos and Latinos. So, like, I get it. That's what they're… There's a double mix. But it's so funny is that, like, people come up with those… The the people to whom this applies for, it says, a survey conducted in Spanish and English in The United States in December 2019 showed that only 23% of Hispanic or Latino adults surveyed even knew about the term. So this term was for them to put… To to to honor them or to not offend them, And, like, 23% had even heard of it. And only 3% said they describes themselves using that term, while 76%

said they never heard of it. And I thought I thought, like, here's the deal. There is a notion of someone of looking out at the world going, oh, we will we will be gracious to these people and we will honor them using this. And then they go, I don't care about this at all. This means absolutely nothing. Like, you're protecting me for something that means nothing to me. The same thing happens. There was an article today about Adele wearing some sort of like… There's a there's a festival in Notting Hill and Adele, the singer, would generally go to this thing and it had like… It was about celebrating Jamaican heritage or whatever. Like, it's when they talk about people doing hairstyles and dress for cultural appropriation. I saw the same thing about some girl who wore like a like a an Asian style dress to prom and people were get all up in arms. And until they asked… In fact, I think we've already talked about this on the show. They they… A bunch of like American

folks were all up in arms about the cultural appropriation of the dress and then they they went to like a 100 different people in China and to a to a man and lady, a 100 Chinese people go, hey, that's awesome. We love that that we feel like they're honoring our culture. Look at them using the Chinese Yeah. Dress over there. And the same reaction was, like, bunch of people were upset about Adele having worn this hairstyle and this this top or whatever that used the flag colors. And, like, they wouldn't ask some people from Jamaica and they're like, boy, it's just so awesome to see the celebration of our heritage and culture showing up over there. And, like, a bunch of people in in London are totally up in arms about it. And, like, it it was kinda the same thing that, like, at some point, you have to, Again, it comes back to humility. It is arrogant to say, I will be the protector of this group of people. When you ask a group of people, they're like, That's awesome. And you're like, This is the worst thing. Well, think this is a little bit different. From what I've read about it…

I'm trying to be humble here. I don't know anything. But it's more of them trying to blur the lines between, like, there's no there's no gender at all, so we're all just fluid

amoebas. And in order to… And, like, and then you come up against a language that's built on male and female. Right. All Latin languages are. Yeah. And so the… Like, what do we do here? Latinx. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So I don't think it's more

about protecting the Latinos Agreed. As like… An agenda push. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I'm not a 100% on that. But that's what I got the feel from it. But I suppose either way, like, there's still a reaction that, like, trying to do that same thing within a culture that's built on that, and they don't have a problem with this at all, and there's an attempt by someone. And, like, they they actually, they were accused of anglicizing the term to try to, like, wash something together with, it's it's actually important that some nouns are feminine or masculine. They're communicating something that, frankly, a lot of

a lot of a lot of people don't believe anymore. Like, oh, well, that's not actually a masculine trait. But, like, a lot our languages and things are built on those types of things. Mhmm. And you do miss some nuances of communication if you reject that that's what those things are coming from. I thought the article was funny. Mhmm. I thought someone put a lot of time and effort to do this. And then the people who were supposed to be a part of it, like, boy, I've just not never heard of that at all. Yeah. And it means nothing to me. They never show that in the interview. Right? They're like, and so we asked a Mhmm. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. And they're like, I don't care at all. This is not of any consequence to me. I'll see you. Hey. This is another article I saw, and I thought, boy. Here's the thing. These these particular articles, I I like them because they're on both ends of the spectrum as they rile up the the the two different groups of people. But, like, there was an article that said, Idaho church removes divisive and hurtful stained glass Robert E. Lee window in a church.

Now, what's the first thing that occurs to you? That they have a stained glass window of Robert E Lee in there? Yeah. So so here's the deal. Most of… This is this is where, like, I've got a I've got a group of, like like like, highly conservative friends who'd be like, this is ridiculous. They're trying to change history and, like, why are they removing Robert E. Lee? My first reaction was, why is there a stained glass window of Bob Lee in this church? This shouldn't be here at all. If you wanna talk about a monument in in front of the courthouse, okay. Fine. Have a conversation about that. But, like, can't we all be on board that Bob Lee doesn't need a stained glass window in a church? This shouldn't even be a story. They should have taken this down the minute they put it up. You're sweet… You're sitting there singing in the sweet bye and bye as you look at Robert E. Lee over to the left. You're like, boy, I don't know. This seems weird. It makes you wonder who else is in this church. Like, oh my god. So… Which is so weird. So get… It's in the first United Methodist Church. And I thought, like, of all the people to be in the window in the United Methodist Church, Robert

What's next? We're gonna have to take Socrates down? So it's… But it's so funny because, like I said, the Idaho church removed a stained glass window featuring confederate general Robert E. Lee last week after voting in June to modify the image that some found divisive and hurtful. Did they put a hat on him or something? That's not him no more. It's Paul. Wait a minute. This is great. It says First United Methodist Church in Boise, Idaho, also known as the Cathedral of the Rockies.

Dan… Wait. Dan, do you have a catchphrase for your church? No. Took down the image of Lee during a deconsecration ceremony. How can you decon… Was it consecrated at some point? I suppose it was. You should be more embarrassed for what put it up. That's where you should be embarrassed. It says after having originally covered the image with a black banner that read, we repent.

The church had been contemplated removing the confederate general from one of their stained glass windows ever since Dylann Roof murdered nine black congregants at Mother Emanuel America Church in South Carolina. It says, following the Charleston tragedy, we began a process to engage this community in deep questions of racial justice and God's call to us in the twenty first century, acknowledging our own sin with the stained glass window panel in the right transept of the cathedral. Wait. The window pane, here we go, honors presidents Washington, Lincoln, and confederate general Robert e Lee. You're repenting of the wrong thing. Yeah. I mean, you were wrong about the first thing. True. We repent for having created any type of monument to anybody else within the house of the lord

of any sort of political figure. I don't care who it is or how great you thought they were. You should've… Yeah. Graven images and all. What a defiant hack. Yeah. I mean, I don't know I don't know how that sniffed right when it got put up. And, like, I don't know why the shooting… I mean, granted, it was it was a tragedy. Right? But why did that tick any bells? Right? Like, by the way, we also have human engraved on

the glass. Do you think that's wrong? No, no, no, no, no. That's not wrong at all. Okay, now it's wrong. Really? I mean, nothing about that should've changed your thought process. It was always wrong. They say there are several things that we know to be true, the church said. Here we go. We recognize this section of our window is more than a benign historical marker. For many of God's children, it's an obstacle to worship in a sacred space. Yes. Yes. Yes. I would agree. For every reason that you're not gonna name here, but it shouldn't have been there in the first place. That's where you should repent.

I've just never heard of such a thing. This is… It's blowing my mind. So why would this ever happen? Doesn't it sound like somebody paid for it? They're like, look, man. I will pay for this thing, but I want the three pillars, America. You know I'm saying? Yeah. And Robert E. Lee in there. Robert E. Lee. Yeah. Yeah. But Washington, Lincoln, the loser of the civil Right? I mean, I

have so many questions. Here's the deal. And people are like, well, was a Christian. I know lots of Christians. Don't really… Like, I can't speak. I've never met the man. Again, I don't have an entire hold on facts on Robert E. Lee, but I'll tell you this much. He shouldn't be a state class man to go to church for any reason. Yeah. And neither should George Washington. Yeah. I love my Washington. Who's best known, by the way, for their political attributes. Right? It's not like you're reading about these fellows in Fox's Book of Martyrs. Right? Right. Like, their acumen, the reason you know them, is because they're foundation of a nation and a political process, and that's the only reason you know any three of them. Right? None of them none of them died in service of Calcutta. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just… It's crazy. I I was in Philadelphia,

I don't know, couple years ago, whatever it was, and sat in one of a pew that was… They they would rent them by the year. Right? So that's why they knew it was, like, so and so's pew. So I sat in George Washington's pew, and it was really kinda cool to think, wow. George Washington… Actually, this Right. His family sat here. But never did I even think, what they need is a stained glass window or or maybe a statue or something. I mean, I was like, that that I… That was just kind of a cool historical thing. You know? And I just I just don't know where they came from. Right. That's… Boy, it's crazy. Yeah. We're putting a… Hey. We're gonna build a new church building, get the sanctuary set up, and we've… We could get a velvet Ronald Reagan put up in the back to really seal the deal in here. And Elvis, sang some gospel songs.

Get one of those jelly bean murals. Hey, man. We gotta put a light on this. Here's the thing. So… And here's the thing. If you're looking at life through the purity of the gospel, like, you don't need you don't need events around you to cause this to go… Like, how does it not occur to anybody over the last fifty years to look up at at at mister Lee and go, this… One of these things doesn't belong here. Why why is George Washington in here? I just don't…

Yeah. It's just a total blindness to not realize, like, you missed this the day you put it up. It doesn't have anything to do with the cultural context of whatever you think that followed. He shouldn't have been there to begin with. It is something to keep in mind though, is when you hear other people talk about why they are struggling with Christianity, realize that like there are We do this. We do this. Right? Like there's an elbow and a left hip socket that acts like this. Know, you're like, the body is, I thought we had this all tucked up, but let's go over this again. Okay. We don't put soldiers or political rivals in stained glass to be immortalized in God's house. We just don't do that.

Where you thought it would be a given, you find out things like, it was not a given. Nah, man. Okay. We gotta go back through this. This is where Paul goes, and we're still on the milk. Okay. Fine. I see we're still on the milk. Alright. Well, let's fire this up again. Oh, man. I… It was a total surprise. Because, like, I I read that, and there was… Of course, there were a bunch of comments after the article, and not one person goes, hey. That that shouldn't have been there at all. I'm like, what? What? How are a 100 people talking about this? And what we're saying is, oh, I don't think Doolin Roof was a ripe supremacist. I don't care. He was a murderer. Have a reaction to that. Weep with those who weep. Alright? But if there's something systemic leading to this, figure out ways to be part of making peace. That has nothing to do with some kind of goof… Goofball church who put up Robert Elite. Yeah. Like… You missed it. We missed it. Yeah. We missed it. We're fighting the wrong thing. Yep. We made peace with a with a window. I mean, I've I've never been in a church with a stained glass window. So I… I'm not… That's not my tradition. I I don't get it. I I all look at them and think, that's kinda cool. But, also, I'm like, I don't really like them. Right? No. No. No. Yeah. But but usually, when they… Churches have happened, they're they're pretty excited about their windows, and there's always a story. And it's like There's story. It's a really important story. So, yeah, this wasn't like some designers said, hey. I've got some glass. Happens to look like… You know? Yeah. I mean, this is very intentional, and it was commissioned, and it happened. And and everybody

knew the story, and they told the story, I'm sure, over many years. Right. And This is where we came from. You gotta realize our history. And, like, once again, you're misidentifying yourself. Right? You're the engrafted branch. Where you came from was Israel. Israel. Yeah. You came from a long line of Gentile sinners, and we were saved from that. We put that on the glass. That's the stuff that we put up in the glass. You might as well you might as well render a picture of Chuck, modern day Chuck. Put him up there if you wanna remind him of yourself. It's… Yeah. And and it's a good point though. Is that, like, I… You've been and seen some of those historical churches and, like, whatever your your perspective is on what you might consider to be an excess in architecture around, say, Catholic churches in many places. I'll tell you this. You talk to the to the rector of that Catholic church, and they're gonna look to you and say, look at these. That's the apostle Paul when he when he met Jesus and the blah blah blah. Here's this… Here's the stations of the cross or whatever. Like, those things do

pull you back into a biblical story. They're not telling you something outside of the biblical story. They were intending to honor God with the biblical story and surround people with those types of things. Now Yeah. Frankly, most of us who walk into a Catholic church are like, oh, that's neat. Most of the people… Some of the people who go to that Catholic church would look at those same things and go, that reminds me about the sacrifice that this person made. Yeah. And so you know I'm saying? Like, that's why… There's just always a bigger context and what I might find in excess, some people might really connect with. And I think that's a healthy conversation for the church to have. Bob Lee, George Washington, Abe Lincoln. No. It's not in that bucket whatsoever. I mean, it's article like, hey. There's these 12 stones. Remember remember when, you know, that that happened? Oh, yes. But but they didn't have,

you know Right. It had nothing to do it. Moses pole or something. I don't know. Does the article say what they replaced the glass with? Like, is it just like a normal pane now, or did they get new Yeah. We put Dale Earnhardt up there. Let me see here. Everybody loves Dale. No. So it had… It said there was a banner over the top of it, and it said it said it was a d…

Windowpane owners. We were deeply… No. No. No. No. No. No. I thought there was… Oh, yeah. Okay. Deconsecration sent a… Took down the image of Lee, covered the image after having originally covered it with a black banner that we had re repent. So they just took down Lee, then took down… Take down… Washington…… It sounds like George Washington and Abe Lincoln are still there. They had to etch her etch around him. Now there's an outline of Lee, so we still get the story. Oh, wait. Is this a picture of? No. Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. Look. They got Martin Luther up there. Oh, yeah. Lincoln, Washington. Oh, they're all in the same pane.

There's like a picture of Robert e Lee, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, and then right next to him is an etch of Martin Luther and Athanasius. Boy, these guys just… I mean, it's a very nicely done window. I mean, there's nothing wrong with having… With with creating stained glass and art and depictions of people. It's fine. Right? Like, it just doesn't belong in God's house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. Had that… Anyway, I thought I thought they were funny. I thought those were two funny stories, probably for the wrong reasons. Alright, Mike. What do we get… Let's let's give some advice here. What are the… The world has been waiting with bated breath. Dear life from the path,

my husband's best friend lives with us. Okay. And I love him like a brother. The problem is, he has no degree and no car, and aspires to nothing more than work and fast food part time. Mhmm. We took him in to help him get through a bad divorce, and now it seems like he'll never be able to leave. He doesn't make enough money to support himself and has no ambition for completing his education. My husband is convinced there is no path for him to better himself. Since I'm supporting all three of us, this has become a serious bone of contention. How can I improve this situation? What, but your husband don't work either? Are they old? Make no mention of age.

I mean, because… I mean, nobody talks about at 65, that guy don't even have a degree. You know, so I'm assuming they're like… I'm assuming they're like…… They're five. Yeah. Yeah. Or late twenties, early thirties, something like that. First Burger King. This is… So here's the deal. This is difficult. This is difficult

because you you… What what you don't want… For someone you care about, you don't want to be a person that cause a rift over something that feels like it is material. Can't I just… I mean, wait, man. He's already staying here. Like do I really wanna cause a bone and a big potential problem by saying, look, this can't be that way. But here's the thing. Here's what I'm gonna tell you. Christians are in a hard position because we deal in true things. Okay? And the truth is is that like

it's when you look at the reality and that includes the realities of the world around us. And the reality of the world around us is is that like, if you don't work, you don't eat. And frankly, we were talking about this, you know, it's so interesting. We were talking about when when Jesus is talking to the crowds about anxiety and he says, hey, look at the birds of the air. K? Don't I feed the birds of the air? Let me ask you this question. Do do the birds… Does he come down, drop a finger down from heaven, and drop food in the raven's mouth? Yes.

Dan says it's happening. No. No. He's… Dan saw it on a stained glass window. I've seen it. The hand of the hand of Yahweh feeding the raven. Yeah. No. What does he what does he mean when he says he feeds the raven? He means he has created ground and seeds and he sends water and he grows food of which the raven is out flying about ten hours a day looking for and eating. Mhmm. And when he says… When he looks at the disciples and he talks to the crowd and he says, look, don't I also provide for you? We've gotten so far away from that mind mind frame where, like, when he says he provides me, it means I sit on my butt and somebody from the church shows up with groceries. But, like, when he says he provides for you, the… There's… The farmers of this world create one and a half times the amount of food that's actually needed just to feed everybody, and I mean everybody.

We waste a lot. God provides for us through his creation. And so it it caused this existential thing. Was like, am I supposed to be farming? I feel like maybe I'm supposed to farm. We should farm. Maybe I should be farming more. But but, like, but here's the thing. God's proposition for saying, don't worry. I will take care of you. It's built in that he doesn't send corn into your house. Like, you still have to cultivate it and you still have to pick it up. And like, think of the guy… You remember like the Bible… The acts like when they're taking the guy out to beg at the gate beautiful, his friends are helping him. They're picking him up. That guy is still working. He's just working at the gate. And so this this note, it is it is a lie

to represent to someone that God's view of the world is, I don't have to do anything, and someone will take care of me. Mhmm. It's just not true. And like, it's not… I I struggled with this for so long because like, it feels like, do I mind helping people that need help? No. I don't. And will it cost me something? Yes. It will. And like, are there gonna be times we'll say, I work hard and this person isn't really doing much of anything and they're benefiting. Maybe that's true because they need help and we should be perfectly fine with that. But if you have the ability

to otherwise live in the world and behave in it in the way that God says is true and I continue to shield that fact from you because I don't wanna hurt your feelings, that's a mistake. It's a lie. It's a dishonesty. And I don't think we're actually serving people by doing it. And so, yes, people will get mad when when you say something like, hey, look, you can't live here forever. I'm doing you a disservice

and you are gonna have to find another place to live and that does may maybe mean that you gotta work a couple jobs, you gotta find a better job than the one that you have. I will help you as much as I can up to this point. But it is fundamentally a dishonest representation of the world and it is not a violation of Christian charity to be honest about the true state of the world even when God says, don't worry, I will take care of you. He has built into the fact that you're gonna respond to his blessing, not wait till he blows open the door and shoves it in your face. And so I I… It's it's just… I I think there's… Christians with a burden for the world and a love of people will always have a hard time here. And it's the right thing to struggle with. So I'm I'm okay. I was… I came to this position,

like, even with the with the last two months or so, was… I had to teach that section. I'm like, how am I supposed to think about this? And I found a sense of peace that I think I haven't had for a long time when it comes to how I help people by thinking about that particular example and recognizing that like, it's not my job to to be dishonest with how the world works and how God set up to bless the world. And I'm taking something away from them by trying to make sure it's that. And I'm not lacking charity. I'm not saying, Hey, I don't love people because I won't let you freeload for years. That's not not loving people. Okay? It's fundamentally

denying a reality that God is created for a blessing. You get blessing from work. Adam did work. The ability to reap God's blessing upon your life is such a gift. Just like most of the good things that come that God says like joy and peace, a lot of the fruits of spirit, you actually don't… You won't get by sitting on your butt at home on the couch and going, I just am enjoying the fruits of the spirit. You see them by actually doing the kingdom work. And they produce in you and you get to see that you have peace where you shouldn't. And you are able… Like making peace in… Being a peacemaker is so rewarding. It's so rewarding. Being someone who gets to be part of helping someone find

Jesus and and and and be able to live a free life that they could never live, that's a gift of the kingdom. And to the extent that you never get to be part of it because you sat home waiting for the blessings of the spirit to come upon you, you misunderstand the work. There… It's not because God's saying, I will only bless work. He's saying, do the work. Blessings come. That's how you get to see them work. And so… I I know, sorry, tirade. But like,

all that to say is that, no, it's it's not uncharitable and from… At least from a Christian perspective, you're not actually helping people by continuing to support a untrue view of the world or or an untrue view of God's blessings. A much shorter version. Sorry. No. No. That was good stuff. It is is is… Yeah. You started out, at least your husband did, to help. At some point, you're not helping. So your next step is don't get all irate and everything and Right. And drop him. How about you all get together and develop an exit plan Here's a path. That includes this is how you live in the real world. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yes. Agreed. Agreed. You can't… And that's that's a good point, Dan, is that, like, once you come in, it's not fair to get sick of it and take it out on the person. Yeah. Done.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's not gonna work. Like, you're still a peacemaker. You are still helping them, and you and you're helping them live in a real world. And so there has to be a path to that. It's not your job to be putative. It is your job to be honest. Mhmm. Okay? So you gotta figure out the right path to that. Mike, are you taking a deep breath because you're not sure on this? No. No. I think it's just a hard truth. I… You know, I think it's a hard truth to to walk in and deliver and, know, and and I I think on the whole, a lot of people that are in a situation like this, like, they don't they have a level of reality that's not tenable to them. Right? Like,

I will find a place to… I will move out when I have the right amount of money and I can get my own apartment or a house with a yard or whatever. Like, look, you can't afford a house with a yard. I mean, you're gonna have to tone this down a little bit. You could probably get a one bedroom, probably not even in town, probably in like one of the off towns. Right. Know? But like… And that's not… It feels punitive, right? Because you're asking them to leave your home where they're set up much better. Right? There's food there and there's a comfy place to live and most things are paid for and it's no big deal. But at the end of the day, you're saying, Look, with the amount of work you're willing to do, this is the reality of what you can actually afford.

But you said he is working, right? I thought. He works fast food. Fast food. Yeah. I mean, that's a job. Yeah. And it's a job, but what you're not gonna do is move out of your buddy's house with his wife and then move into equal accommodations. Right? You're gonna end up in an apartment somewhere that covers cable and electric and water all in one swath. And you're not gonna have as much room and you're not gonna enjoy all the byproducts of what a married couple upbringing a house looks like, you know? And so, like, I think that most of the time where I've heard kickback about this is, like, the person who's staying or the person who wants to live there, they have unrealistic expectation of what moving out actually looks like. They're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna walk into this thing and and, you know, and and be set up, it's gonna be great. And it's like, look with the amount of money you make. That's not gonna happen. You're you're gonna have to lower your standards. Right? If you're not willing to either work or do something different, then this is the max of what you'll be able to… The blessings you're gonna reap, right? It's all the more you're gonna get. And then they're like, Well, forget it. If that's all the more I'm gonna get, I'm just gonna stay here. There's no reason to move out. Well, I mean, there is kind of a reason for you to move out.

So, just… It's a difficult conversation. And I think it assumes… Like, part of that underlying thing has the thing that I was kinda getting at with the kingdom work, it assumes that there's not a value in the process. Like, that this is simply a measurement of outcome. Well, here, I get three three meals a day and I have a room all to myself and I don't have to pay for cable and blood. And it's a measurement of outcome that says there's no value in being a person that lives independently and pays for their own stuff. That isn't… I I I don't wanna necessarily say like that isn't a burden on somebody else because like, again,

to the notion that people need help, we should be glad to give and they shouldn't think of themselves as a burden. But like, there is a value in being someone who like, going to work and providing for your family and providing for yourself. There's there's a there's a self confidence thing in there. There was a recognition of contributing something positive into the world, of being able to take the things that God has blessed you with even minimally and help other people with it. And so like… And a way that God has designed the world to work. Right? Like, fires up two humans and puts them to work. Right? And so, like, there's a thought process that, like, because of the systems we have set up in place within our country, it's optional,

right, because the systems will catch you. And, like, it's not… Was not God's initial intention. I'm saying, yeah. And I think, yeah, that's the point. You're missing out on the part of the blessing of God's design. And I know it's it's hard to… On the other side of this when you might be hearing that from a person who seems to be doing just fine. But frankly, I might I might appeal to you that a lot of the folks who are in a much better position than than other folks like this have actually been doing that very thing. They've been working for a while. They have like… And and there are blessings. I don't mean like necessarily material benefits, although there's parts of that. But like being able to… Like, just in my own personal situation, we have just recently reached a point where, like, I have the ability, even on a monthly basis… Like, don't even… Like, I have the ability to help people and not go, oh, I wonder if I wonder if this is gonna mean we… I I scheduled the water bill. I just moved into a new house, and I finally agreed, after fifteen years of marriage, to let them automatically take the money out for the water bill. I have refused that because I'm like, you never know. I might not pay the water bill this month. Yeah. And I I looked at my wife and I said, you'll never believe it, woman. I scheduled the water bill. I said they can take it whenever they want. Now, part of that is because I'm on well water and on…

I'm not on paying sewer, so it's only like $40 a month. It's a little cheaper. But but but like, there's just a level there where like, we've we've done whatever it is for the last fifteen years. And if someone goes, hey, man. I need help. I can go, I have it. I have it today. I can help. Let's do it. Can help, and it's not gonna mean that I can't pay the water bill. And I'm alright not paying the water bill in service of Lord. I don't particularly care. But like… But that's the point. And like, it's a real blessing to be in that situation and to be able to help someone in that type of way without having to to worry about those types of things. And so… But do you know how many hours you had to work? Fifteen years' work. Right. Right. Fifteen years' work to be able to position… It's not a thing that just befell you. God was faithful and

blessed the work of your hands. Right? But you had to continue to work, and you would not be in that position as you lay back. And the longer you sit in a fast food setting, the longer that delay is. Right. Right. Right. I mean, that's not what that job was designed for. Right. Right. Now, Nathaniel, you ever been in this position where, like, you intended to help someone to to keep them on their feet or whatever short term and it ended up being a much longer term commitment than you expected?

Well, one time, I had a… Knew a fella who… He came looking around for some De Niro. He was a little short on cash. Yeah. And so I says to him, sure. You know, I got I got… I ain't hurting for money. And he says, I'll pay you back anytime now. You know? And it was, I mean, it was, like, $600. You know? Right. That's no jump change. Yeah. It's it's not pocket change, but it's also… You know, I'm not breaking the bank or anything.

But then, you know, eventually, after, you know, some months go by, he's like, hey. It's gonna be a little bit longer. I was like, blah. I thought about this. Because he was a family member Right. I I says to him, listen, guy. Just consider it a $600 birthday gift. And we'll forget it ever happened. Because I don't wanna… I mean, I don't care that much. And I don't want you coming home at, like, Christmas and being like, oh, I don't wanna Yep. Hang out with old Nathaniel because

I want him some De Niro. And so, you know, that happened. And then, like, maybe six months later, he came tumbling back around. And he says, hey.

Remember how I didn't pay you back? Well, I need I need another loan. This time, I'm a pay you back for real. And I said, okay. Are you sure? He says, yeah. Yeah. I will.

And so it was, like… I don't know. I think it was, like, $400 this time. And so I loaned him $400, and he did pay me back. Oh, good. And then… I mean… But then, like, every, I think, like, six months from then on. There was, like, hey, I

blew a tire or rent or my hours got cut or this or that. And it wasn't a problem for me to help him out. Because, like, since I've been married, I I have not been…

I have not struggled for for cash, because I've had a a a pretty good paying job, and I've lived in a house for free because I got a duplex. Yeah. And so, like, mean, it was not a difficult situation for me. But I just did not expect upon that initial 600 bones that it was gonna be a six month cycle of… Yeah, that is true. On the offset, you're like, Absolutely. Yeah, there's no question here. And then by the second one, you're like, Well, it feels like it might be starting to be a pattern, but we'll

tuck it up. Be no problem. And then, like, by the time you're on number seven, you're like, you know what? I feel like some fundamental changes might need to happen. Plus, like, at that point, I was like, well, okay. What am I funding now? Yeah. Like, because I'm not even a 100% sure. And even if I… It is going towards what you're saying it's going towards, I'm not, like, sure I agree with that either. Yeah. That's true. Because you start to feel misgivings about it. You're like, well, am I… Does it matter what they spend the money on? My call is to be generous. And you're like, it kinda does. Yeah. It kinda does matter what you're spending on, because I'm not gonna give you money to do the wrong thing. And so… And then what you end up in is in a cycle of, look, I would love to give you money, but you're gonna do bad things with it. So I literally can't give you any money. Oh, well, you're not generous. No. I feel like I'm being pragmatic. Like, I just… I said I will help you do good things, and even the the things you intend for good end up being bad somehow. Like… And now you've really tied my hands, because I'd like to be generous, but you're… I can't be. And that really stinks, because I wanted to be, but I just can't trust it's gonna come out right. And, like, that's a tough cycle. It's a tough cycle to go out through.

I agree. I think you gotta set the line. And I… And it's it's a hard line. It really is a very difficult line. I I get it. Yeah. I mean, I I think that's… I think it's okay to say, look, I I will default to the side of generosity. I will default to the side of to to the side of grace. But like, it is not… It does not lack grace to otherwise deal with the situation in front of you and and be… And being honest about a reality. You are not depriving someone of grace simply because you say, look, the truth is I'm not gonna keep giving you money because this isn't actually helping you. And

here's the other thing. And this is the frustration I I've had… Okay. I'm gonna… I hate to bring this up. This is the frustration I've had with with, like, some of the stuff we see in the news is that, like, there's a legitimate conversation that probably needs to be had that no one can have because we're talking about other things. And, like, what a what a terrible waste of an opportunity to have the right conversation as a as a country. And instead, we're going, oh, how many how many how many buildings burned down? Well, like, what… There were people out there who've got… Who need… Who are trying to to broker a conversation and maybe…

You can call them peacemakers. They're out there trying to figure out a way to find peace in places where we where we can't seem to find it. And like, I can't hear any of those people. And that's so disappointing. And like, think that this is the same thing kind of applies here where, like, if we're constantly… If you direct… We can't direct our money to people… Like, legitimately, the church is supposed to give freely and graciously to people who need it. And you know what that might mean? That might mean someone who's not capable of working and they're they're 30 years old, and they're not gonna be capable of working for sixty years. And it goes, the church, you need to kinda step in and help. And we're like, no problem. Long haul. Will freely give whatever we got to make sure this is taken care of. Hospitals, orphanages, like, adoption agencies, all these things. The church is in with given money, and we don't even care. We're not even counting it. Get it out of here. Help people who need help. Totally cool. But, like, if if you're if if if you're tying up some of the Lord's money when you don't have to be, like, you are kinda taking it out of the hands of other people. And, like, I would hate for that to happen.

And so, like, like… And I think it's okay because the reality is to say, look, we're not giving to this because we're giving to this. And, like, that guy's actually capable of going and doing something. He just kinda refuses. And so, Yeah. It… I know it doesn't feel… It feels like you're not being gracious. It's not ungracious to be honest. It doesn't mean you don't have to deal with that conversation, to Dan's point, in a gracious manner and provide paths to folks and simply… And here's the deal. Sometimes people will flat out not choose it. Hey, I've created a path. And they're like, oh, I'm not gonna take that. Well,

it was an option for you. You were acting like you're out of options. You're not out of options. You just don't wanna take this particular one. You don't don't get the luxury of choosing every option. Because here's the deal. Everybody I know in this room, like, we we work every day. Like, I don't know. I don't have the option of not working. I don't know why you have the option of not working. I don't I don't get it. So anyway, sorry. Long long story short. It… To some of to some of you, feels ungracious. I… Like, we need to be chucking money out the window to whoever truly needs it. But it doesn't mean you're not discerning about whether people actually need it. Ultimately, for for Burger King boy, like, all the good things in life,

do not come in brother and sister in law's basement. Yeah. So kicking them out is for the best. Yeah. They gotta figure it out at some point. And maybe you gotta be the guy that helps them figure it out in a rougher way. Right? They always want help… They want the cloud. They want the cloud out of the basement. And like, well, unfortunately, I think it looks like camper. That's what it looks like. Like, you leave and then you go live in a camper, or I'll help you buy a camper.

But, like, it ain't gonna look like you think it's like there's gonna be some kind of daddy Warbucks stop by and hire you up at the latest law firm. Right? You're probably gonna have to take double shifts at the at the place and then build your… You should have started ten years ago. You'd have been fine, but you did not. So… Okay. Segular says, you should not be supporting all three of you. I am concerned that the husband is not working. I think that's crappy. Yeah. Especially if, like, if our age insinuation is right. I don't I don't understand what's going on here. Yep. Be prepared to be the, quote, bad guy and stop the gravy train now. Your husband's best friend's career limitations should not be your problem, so give him a deadline to leave and insist upon it with the help of your husband. If that doesn't solve your problem, you may need the help of a lawyer for guidance. Oh, man. Okay, that turned rough. Now, here's here's the thing, the other thing I'll submit to you, is that there is… And again, I think this supports what Dan was talking about. There is a path to reality. So, like, okay, maybe you're not… They can't stay in your basement forever. But like, hey, man. I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll help look for jobs or whatever. Like, I'll… I know you don't have a vehicle. I'll take you to the first 10. You're gonna have to take the bus afterwards. Right? Like, it's it's totally okay to say to, like, just because people don't need, like, help with everything, doesn't mean that you can't be kind and shouldn't provide them help in in making right decisions. Like, I've had that come up in my life within the last six months that, like,

people needed help when they were needing help on the path to a to a good decision that's valuable in their life, I'm in. Where it's like, hey, we need help to sustain a not a good path. I'm like, no. I I I can't do that. And like… But but it doesn't mean like, hey, like, not every not every option is, hey, we… Will you have a place to live? No. But I can help you find a place to live. Like, you can't live in my house, but you… But I'll help… We'll help you find this thing. Or like, hey, will will you… Whatever to to to handle this event for me.

No. But I will help you make sure you get the right context so that you can do it. Like, you can be helpful here. It just doesn't mean that, like… The the the risk is is that when people present to you a means to help them, they put you in a corner and say, this is your only choice. This is the option they thought of and either you help me or you're not being helpful. When it's not in reality the only choice. And that's the thing you just gotta… Like, the only option for this man isn't living in your basement. That's a false view of the world. There's plenty of places to stay. And I'm not even talking like homeless shelters. Like, again, if he's working consistently, even at a fast food joint, there are options. Now maybe maybe he needs rental assistance. It's gonna take him six months. Say, great. I'm glad to have you here for six months. You can stay. Since you're already here, will you stay for six months? Get yourself tucked You got a plan? You got an idea? Go. Yeah. Helping towards good things. Right? Like, don't draw stupid arbitrary lines. And again, it goes back to what we talked about earlier. It's it's when you start to be punitive that that's that's when you're running out of Christian grace. Your job isn't to punish people. But but it is okay to set up reality. That's perfectly fine. K.

That's it, man. That's all we're doing. Yeah. That's it. K. Hold on. I had it ready. Okay. There we go. Hey. You've been listening to Life From The Path. I hope you guys are having a good week. We're so glad to be back here in the studio. It's a bit roasting in here, but I over prepared. I gotta… I put on a sweater. That was a mistake. I don't know how the thrift store priest takes it. He's been sitting in that robe and all by himself for, two months. If you guys have any feedback for us on the show, maybe you thought it was terrible. You say, look, I I I I finally waited for this to come back and… I wish you guys had stayed gone. Look at… Yeah. Yeah. Look at this. What a mistake in my life. Hit us up on the Bob Eisenhower complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085. (515) 517-0085.

You can leave us a message. You can send us a text. We'd love to be able to hear from you. As you can tell by the last two times we brought it up, it really is delightful. Yeah. I really do love to hear from you guys, even if you're upset with the program. If we leave you with anything this week, guys, look, let's just let's just… Let's pray on humility. Like, as a group, as the fellows in this room, and as anybody that's picking up our voices, just say, God, help… Humble us. Humble us this week as we approach our relationships with other people, as we approach our… How we interact

online or the conversations we have, even things that are like so important in the world today, the big conversations that we need to have, help us to make sure we're not trailing human arrogance, that we've we've we've just got a mind for the kingdom. Maybe hit up… Go to the go to the Google and look on YouTube and do a search for Pathway Church Johnston. Dan's got a series of sermons out there. He just covered this. He knew you needed it. Oh, man. Are they gonna be awful? Dan, are you wearing a funky shirt? They're wonderful. Okay. Top notch. They're fantastic. Robert E. Lee would convert to Christian or anything. He would be.

Alright, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us on Live From The Path. We will see you hopefully next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.