Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path.

You're listening to Live From The Past. I mean, from the Past Studios here in Johnston Proper. That's the deal. That's the real deal, Ben. Yeah. Yeah. That's life as you know it. Here's the thing. We did it again. We probably burned what is it? 10:30? Holy cat. Yeah. It was a quick one, Ben. Yeah. I got here like nine,

ten or whatever, and I we started my girls. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We started talking about something, and we just got off at, ten minutes ago. Yeah. We every once in while, we should just turn on the mic. Just fire him up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something in there is probably good. Yeah. So here's the thing. We're generally trying to filter because this is a pretty it was a very good conversation, and I would have loved to have it had it here.

But we're we're just making sure there was some some sensitivity to it. So I think we're just trying to talk it out. It will lack some spontaneity, I suppose, if we have it again. But Yeah. It's just like telling the kids, you had a great Christmas present, but you're not getting it. Yeah. But it's not gonna happen. Yeah. It's like, what what a letdown. But Yeah. Just so you know, whatever you got here was the leftovers. We already ate the main meal, and we're we're showing up with the cranberries, and you're like, oh, man. That's it. Okay. So here's the deal. I got two quick things for you, then we're gonna give some advice, then we're gonna try to get out of here. K. The the Barnard

shoot. Barnard Research says that pandemic could result in loss of faith in next generation. Excellent. Don't I know why they have a lot of faith in the next generation anyway. I've met these people. I don't have any faith in them. The coronavirus pandemic could accelerate a loss of faith among the next generation unless churches find ways to better disciple young churchgoers and keep them connected. Senior researchers at the Barner Group say, Some dude highlights how a majority of young people who grew up in the church will either walk away from their faith or from the church when they become young adults during a recent discussion about the impact of the pandemic. That's the same problem we've been having for a hundred years. This isn't pandemic related. I suppose that there's there's a piece missing though. Like, mean, I think there's like in education, there's a there's a chunk missing.

You know, I have two girls in college right now thinking, how weird. I wonder, they're they're still doing their education, but there's gotta be a chunk missing there that that is not normal. Yeah. You know, like, but one of them is learning to be a dentist, and she also sent me screenshots of stuff. And and and I'm like, that's teaching you to be a dentist. I mean, mean, what do I know about dentistry? No. But so I could see that in the church that how we're set up unless we're able to quickly adapt, there could be a chunk missing for some. Those are pretty key times. I mean, 11 year old, I did this when I went man, that was life changing for me and and and

so I I I'm not gonna laugh at it yet. No. It's yeah. I I think there is a the question is that like I mean, this is the thing underlying concern with the church stuff during the pandemic is that

it runs the risk of putting it on equal footing with other forms of entertainment Mhmm. Which is a, I I think, a risk across the board. I I think there are great ways that you can use technologies otherwise support it. And I think, frankly, we should be thankful that we had the means to be able to do that when it happened. It's up to parents to do that. Is that kind of what you're mean, there's so much out there. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't, as a parent, feel equipped, I mean, there's so much out there you could help your children with Yes. To to yeah. Because as I was telling my little thing, I thought, well, you know, it seems like most of my high school, I I was was working Burger King Sunday morning.

Mhmm. Because I was playing football and did track, it's like that was the only hours I could work. Had a car payment. I mean, you know? It was like, that was it. And and and it's like so I I went months at a time without attending church, and I see think I turned out okay. Yeah. I I mean, so you could say, well, it was like a COVID gap. You know? It was like, I could've fallen offence. Yeah. I don't know. Do you feel like so so during those times, Dan, what what where do Do I have to tell you what I did? Did well, I I was gonna ask, like, did you were you feel like you were

did that impact your your relationship with Jesus and your ability to follow him, and did you have support from any other areas that weren't the church? I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be a little embarrassed here because I I like I would as far away from this doctrine as possible, but I watched Jim Baker PTL Club every single night. Every single night. Yeah. And I get the interviews, and I and and there's been stuff I think, well, it's kinda weird, but it's like, he just I just I loved the god. Somehow, I think god protected me because, like, I just grasped the god part. Yeah. Yeah. Know, so all the stuff my friends were doing, like, didn't do any of that stuff because I was like, oh no, no, God, God, you know, he's with me and he loves me and he wants wants the best for me and I'm not gonna do that. And and so for me that worked out really well. Right. Right. I didn't have community at all. I mean, I had never went to youth group as a kid.

You know, I do there's there's stuff I went to Sunday school like elementary school years. Yeah. But there's like from junior high on, I I never never did. Dan Dan and Jim Baker. I know. Me and Jim me and Jim I even sent him money. I've kept little quarters, and I got a little PTL bible,

and he got you just where he wanted to I know. He's like, yes, sir. My dog needs a new bathtub. Good working kid. Yeah. So there's ways, there's ways to that point. Yeah. I

mean, maybe to that point, I mean, this pandemic, it gets the weight you give it. And like, I agree it's irritating,

you know, and has some weight to it in certain aspects. But we tend to do this. We're an exclamation point society, right? Like, oh, we'll never recover from this six, eight months or whatever. Let's call it a year. Probably a year and a half by the time we're all set and wrapped up or at least moving in a direction. And I tell you one thing, when it comes to children,

they're very resilient in this area. And they're not as worried about it as adults are. Yeah. So I mean, because we're looking at the long term fifty year future and going, oh, this thing might we don't even put this much concern in vaccines. You know what saying? We'll test it on, like, two years' worth of guys were like, this is on it. You can trust me. Right? Only to find out later it causes you a third ear to grow on the top of your head, you know, at year 47. We don't care. We're shipping it out the door. But when it comes to our kids in a one year pandemic, we're like, oh, they're forever They're missing out on everything. Yeah, yeah, The whole world passing them by. Not to say that you should ignore the problem. You do have to

It really is your job to make the gospel authentic. They have to see it working. And what I like about youth group is not necessarily I know all the things that are touted about youth group, that kids get together and they create their own community, these are good things. But in my perspective, as a guy that runs a youth group, I get to reinforce what you started at home. And that leads to authenticity,

right? It's not just my parents said so, oh, actually Mike says so too and he's not my dad and he's not invested I I love the kids and I'm invested in them but like, I don't put them to bed every night. Know what saying? I'm not following them around to make sure they got their homework done. I got no aim to have you act better. That's not my my aim at youth group and they know that because that's not what I'm there for. And so the whole point of having a Christian community and especially youth group is it reinforces what they're taught at home. Now the problem is is if youth group is introducing things that are not being backed up at home, now Mike seems like the crazy one. Or Mike seems like he's taking things too seriously and my parents say, This is not that big of a deal. And so

the getting together in a youth group capacity, or especially through the pandemic here, what you're missing out on is continuity of the Gospel between God's people and showing that we're all reading from the same Bible, we're all believing the same thing, it's not just your dad that wants you to obey him and he pointed to commandments every night and this is why, right? It's evidenced in not only how your home is working but how my home is working and how your pastor's home is working. That like, look, this is repeatable and it is good and God has given it to us as a gift and we should see it that way and it gets pounded as being authentic the more you see it. So that's what I would more put the emphasis on opposed to I mean, the theological The deep theological truths are generally not coming from youth group. Certainly, they're reinforcing deep theological

truths, right? But like, if your youth group is solidly discerning Greek in the book of Acts, you might be slightly overplaying your hand. Nope. Yeah. Ben? Nope. Tell me how you're a failure.

Do you oh, yeah. Okay. David Kinnaman, president of the California based Evangelion I don't care. Believe the pandemic will make this crisis of faith worse unless steps are taken. They said the majority of young people who grew up in the church will either walk away from their faith or from the church when they become young adults. And they they said they were asked whether the pandemic will make it worse, they says, think it will. I actually think we're going to see an increasing number of people who've lost connectedness with their faith community with the usual rhythms and practices. I think that was changing anyway. Well, yeah. And I think the the the data that they're talking about implies that those things aren't really keeping them there regardless.

Yeah. Even though they had like later on the article, they'll say let's see, that that researchers believe that the group let's

oh, yeah. We we think about habitual churchgoers. One of the things we know that makes them different from the resilient folks is that they have meaningful relationships at church. But that's not the same group of people which is the which is the youth and the kids and the people, the young adults that walk away from the church. They're like categorizing like adults. Like those those rhythms don't seem to be the means of which the primary driver which people stay anyway. And so I don't know that the pandemic will accelerate

that in as much as like it will just reveal quicker the fact that you that this was happening regardless. Yeah. Because they're they're really looking at the institutional church.

Yeah. I I mean, yeah. The the the programming and and and all of that and not acknowledging that your relationship with Christ can survive outside that. Yeah.

An institution. I mean, I'm I'm a big in the institution church. You know, I do one. But like you guys are in a home church. Know? It's like you're you're not like suffering right now. You're not like, oh, I don't know about Jesus. Yeah. Right. Right. It's like you have a personal faith. You know? And Dan spent years working at Burger King and watching Praise the Lord. Right. And without going to a to a church and like there's a there's a path here. Yeah. And this is not to discredit obviously the the the I think the rhythms of the church are great. Right. Yeah. But but like we do have to be careful to not overreact

to to our own infrastructure as if it was the sinews of the church. Yeah. Because but God obviously can work outside of whatever our mind picture is when we hear the word of the church. Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. I Even for a classic example, right? Like, know for a fact that there's a I think it's all the ladies in our church, actually, they text each other all the time. All the time with stuff that they're praying for and stuff we can ask for prayer for and

just overall great stuff. And because of that, we don't have a weekly or a monthly ladies get together because we don't need one. They're already doing that. Right? And so some of the things that I like to extol the absolute non virtues of, like technology,

for the most part, it has granted us such the ability to bring those things in a consistent community,

which is way more tenable than you would have had, say, we do this pandemic thirty years ago. Everybody's living in the dark throwing hand letters out and you're catching news three days past. You know? And so so where I I think it's a it's it's a hassle. Right? I don't I don't know that it's exactly a detriment. Yeah. And and maybe I should clarify what what I'm saying too, that that what I'm saying only works if you do engage on your own Well, yes. Outside of Yeah. Absolutely. Structure. Absolutely. Yeah. Because I'm I'm making it sound like, well, yeah, I can go fishing. You know? It's like, well, now that you hear that all time. It's like, that's a different issue. Yeah. Right. You know? Yeah. Well, and and so I think that's interesting too is that when we think about

think about this less as a problem and more as an opportunity to ex not change our definition of the church but to expand it. Like, does does the church meet on Sundays? Yeah. And I think we should continue to do that because it's awesome. Is it is it is it right that the church considers that it has habits and rhythms as a community? Yes. I think that is all good.

But but but if that if that causes a constraint in our behavior whereas the pandemic shows up and we're like, well now what do we do? Well then we had defined too narrow to begin with. And so if this is an opportunity for us to look at our definition of like what the church is and how the church behaves and how its same notion of those rhythms continues whether we are meeting formally or in in this particular location or whatever,

Like what a great opportunity for the church to to potentially remove a blindness. That was on it. That was unintentional. Right? Like it's not because none of the stuff none of the stuff that that that was going on was wrong or bad. They were all good things. It's just too narrow which is often the way God works. God said like totally but big but bigger. Yes Ben. Good good but bigger. Wider.

Different. Deeper. And so I think that's probably I think that's good. And frankly I do wonder if if we can get that part

get that part right sounds is not what I really want to say. It's more so can we if we can broaden our allow this opportunity to broaden our scope and it becomes more obvious and evident of the church being the church outside of its internal rhythms,

I wonder if actually you you see that the young adult thing change direction. Because oftentimes, and this is a generalization so don't hold me to this is everybody, but like oftentimes the complaints for for younger generations are I don't think the church is actually accomplishing anything. They look at the world and they say, hey, this is we hear the words but we don't see it. We don't see it actually happening.

A lot of the time it's happening just not in some kind of like way that you want it to happen, like you want to be more flashy. It's happening in, you know, the to people we don't go in front of the church every every day and go, hey. We we gave the Thompsons $80. Hooray for us. Like, someone just gave the Thompsons $80. In fact, they probably gave the Thompsons Thompsons a quarter cow, and the Thompsons are gonna eat that for a for a winter, and you never heard of it. So, like, some of that stuff is happening and you just don't know what's happening. Right. Along with, say, strong marriages. That's right. Right. Right. We do sorry. We we don't do we don't go like, hey, everybody. Just a reminder, kicking tail on this marriage thing, thirty five years. Nobody got divorced this week. That's right. You hear about someone being married for thirty eight years, you're like, okay. Mean, okay. Congratulations. Yeah. Right. We see this all the But like that's a great that's awesome. Yeah. And so like some of that stuff's happening anyway. And when the church is it doesn't go around tooting horns because like that's also kind of how we're supposed to handle stuff. But like

but I would submit that like some of the gaps that they think they're seeing where it feels like it only belongs in a specific place, that's not the it's not the building's fault, it's not the rhythm to have its fault. It should be happening outside of those things. And if this allows that perspective to be seen to say, oh, yeah. They actually they couldn't meet in the building this week, but they things seems still still seems true. It's still true. They figured out a way to do something else. Online's okay for that.

If they did a a 300, 400 person church, ended up being in like 20 houses for a few weeks. Okay. But because it's real and true, this thing this isn't the thing that ties us up. And I think it's a false perception because I think anybody you know, no one feels no one would say this is tying us up. But to the extent that people feel like it might be, this is a great time to show them that it doesn't. And for them to feel and to see it and for it to be tangible and the church to be about the church's business outside of the the thing where they put us in a in a pocket. The church should be constantly surprising people. Oh, I know what you guys do on a Sunday morning. Oh, do you? We might be up to just about anything. I like that level of surprise from the church. A little bit of wink, a little sly boots. Yeah, a little bit of pandemic as an opportunity.

Granted, it's cut down our ability to maybe show up at a building in a group of whatever, but we're still attending online services. And frankly, because this new pandemic as an opportunity has come up, we have a whole new avenue of ways of showing God's love to other people. If we get caught I think that's the thing I'm defending against. I don't know whether these numbers are true, whether or not, or whether they're leading this or whatever. The main point is, that when we're faced in a new situation, go, God, new situation, what do think? You know what I'm saying? Instead of going, Oh, this new situation is upon us, what shall we do in response? It shows up as an opportunity. Yeah. Right? We have all kinds of opportunity to do things we would not have had the opportunity to do before. So

in fact, I dismissed this article out here. Lord, this is gonna mess up the process that wasn't quite working right. What will we do? Kids have been leaving the church for seventy five years. This is gonna cause them to leave. No, they're really gonna leave. Like, stay super mean at this time. Yeah, for reals.

Yeah. Maybe I just don't like here's the thing, it's like spending any amount of time worrying about this, it's putting an awful lot in your own hands. I I don't know what you what are gonna do different? What do you think you're gonna do? Get ahead of the curve on this thing or whatever, you know, pandemic proof your place? Right. You're gonna come up with the world's greatest idea in the next three weeks and cap totally capitalize? Like, just do the church stuff. Be the church. Yeah. Be the church. Do the church stuff. And here's the thing. Whatever. The true colors here. But, like, to the extent that you're being in the church and there's groups of people who go, nah. I mean, what are you gonna do? Your only job is to be the church.

If if the if the building tied you up, then we need to retalk about what it's like to be the church. But I I actually don't I I think that's not as big of a deal. I think it's an easy thing to be like, ugh. They're focused on the building. But, like, it causes us to have the right conversations, and that is always a blessing where God forces you to have the right to relook at your situation and go, now what do we do? And he goes, an awful lot. Dan, I got some options. Yeah. Dan, I got some options here. You can keep the building, though. I got other stuff coming later. Got a place to put my boat. Yeah. God's boat shows up. You got big chariots parking at your place for weeks. Amen? But some of this stuff, the data and stuff, is really geared to probably the larger churches, which does have a reason to maybe be worried because everything does matter to the I mean, everything is focused around the building, all the programming and the classrooms and all this stuff. And whole church is pretty we just kinda do whatever. We just go wherever. You know? Yeah. We we move around. We do stuff. And But but but, like, isn't the same thing true, though? Like, if you to the extent that you got 5,000 folks in fact, we kinda talked about this when we talked about the sermons a few weeks ago. But like,

it it it is a risk but like, doesn't it cause you to rethink and say, hey, we should we probably shouldn't be as leveraged in this risk as we are. Uh-huh. So, like, how should we think about what we're doing differently both during the the now times, but, like, how should that inform what happens when we're not in the middle of pandemic? I don't know. See, I've heard I've heard the convention guys talk about this sometimes. Oh, we're counting the wrong stuff. Quit quit counting people and and and all this stuff. And they're like from the big churches that all they do is counting people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, I I don't know what you're saying because I I don't you know, what does that mean? You you know? That's true. Don't count people. What was your attendance last Sunday? 17,243. Exactly. Oh. And the offering was? Blah blah blah. And I was like,

yeah. What do you do with that? Well, so so like but but I guess the thing so here here's the thing. If you wanna look at it from a practical perspective, let's say let's say we said counting people is the right thing. It's alright to count. I want it's some indication of the success of how we got people in. If you're leveraging

a particular demographic group out the door at a 90% loss rate or an 80% loss rate, like something's not working. And what I'm submitting to you is that like is it possible is it possible that like whatever it is that's getting them in there isn't the thing that actually causes them to stay and causing them to stick? Here's the deal, if you're drawing in people who already know and love Jesus and you've made it's just a little bit more comfortable and maybe you're like really good and so they like to sit and listen to you and your band's pretty awesome and so reasonable people like to hear good music. And so like those people aren't dropping out

because what you're offering is better than maybe where they were coming from. But like if you treat your young adults and your like your high school and college age kids as the group who's actually giving you the the cleanest shake because they don't have a background and they're going, the thing that should draw me in for life, this is not drawing me in for life, then it should force you to ask some really serious questions about what it is that you're doing. And I think that's not that the pandemic,

again, I personally think starts to touch on some of the things where they look at and go, nah, this feels kinda like a this feels like a show. No one else no one's intending to put on a show. They're trying to do the very best they can for Jesus. But like, there's just there's a whole generation of which I'm at the tail end of one and I think the one follows mine are like, it looks a little showy. I just don't I don't know if this is real. This this seems like a production. You know what doesn't look like a production?

When the church can't meet in a building, the church still meets. This is where the TV the going online thing can be it could be hit or miss. I I think for smaller churches, it's probably awesome. And they're like, wow, cool. Like, we still get to do this and they don't miss out because they were in that. I think it perpetuates something that's probably true for larger churches. But I also think it's a heck of an opportunity. I I think it turns the tides for the larger for the larger church. I think they're gonna have a hard time shutting down the livestream. Because they're gonna want to, like when things lift and they're like, we gotta get everybody back in the seats meet as a community, and they're like, we're gonna stop livestreaming.

Well, I think people are gonna be angry. I think a lot of that stuff's there for good. Yeah. You think they're gonna keep the livestream? Our churches were doing it already. Yeah. You know, it's just another front door. I mean, so it wasn't such a hard transition for them. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it'll and I don't I don't know. I don't know that it's I don't

yeah. I don't know. I like, I think there's a lot of value on in person stuff. Are there situations where, like, is it gonna like, people are gonna this is how they're gonna interact with you? Yeah. Is it possible? Dan was a virtual community member with Baker for years. Right? And, like, it was no it didn't it didn't rub the horn you. Right? Yeah. It didn't create a bad situation for you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, I had no connection, obviously, but but Right. It was Yeah. It fed me. You gotta know who you are, I guess. Like, you might be able to sustain without that. There's some people that like no. Seriously, you're just not a person who can't sustain without phys like Yeah. In person with people. You gotta go. Yeah. Yeah. I'm much more of a loner anyway. So Yeah. I go to a a larger church and I just kinda hide in the corner and Yeah. You know, I I just I don't I'm not that guy. I don't wanna be

Yeah. Front and everybody I agree with me and I would do that same thing. Mhmm. Yeah. Which is wait. Part of the reason I stay at, like, I I don't do that because, like, I think it's probably not the best for me. And it forces me like, smaller situations force me to actually be doing things that otherwise are probably right for the kingdom.

Whereas I could get lost in something else. Yeah. Alright. Alright. We're done with this one. Last last one. Pandemic forced I don't know who John Steingard is. Oh, here we go. Oh. Oh, it's the front man for the Hock Nielson. Oh, yeah. Okay. He believes that he let's see. John Steingard, former front man for the Canadian Christian rock band Hock Nelson, who revealed in May that he no longer believes in God, suggested that if the pandemic didn't happen, he may not have shared his unbelief with the world. Quarantine forced us to slow down like it forced everybody to slow down. Steiningard told Today in a recent interview, without it, it's possible that I may have just kept going on about life because, well, life is full, life is busy. And sometimes you don't always have the time to stop and really think about things.

He explained that he made the decision to come clean about what he believes while actually having a conversation with his wife during a trip to the grocery store. I just feel like I'm ready to talk about this publicly, he said he told her. I felt like I had the ability to talk about this stuff without being angry or bitter. He added, sometimes when you see someone stepping away from the faith, there's a period of anger and resentment and bitterness, and some of that can be really understandable and normal. I think I had processed that stuff to the point where I felt a lot calmer and settled about it. Early this summer, in response to a question of whether he or not he was afraid of going to hell, Steingard who was raised as the son of a pastor said he went through a period of deconstruction and is now reconstructing what he believes. I suspect that if he is there through the whole process for me of deconstruction and now sort of in this process of reconstruction,

figuring out what I do believe now. I have to believe that if he's there, he knows that this is part of the process. When it comes to heaven and hell, you can actually even if you're full on Bible believing Christian, there's a lot of evidence, even in Scripture, that this idea of eternal conscious torment is not your only option, he said on Instagram. He also explained that while he works to figure out what he really believes about God, he is now more at peace on the issue of hell. I do feel at this point like a tremendous amount of peace on the subject and I've sort of tried to figure out why and work my way back from like this sense of peace that I have and I'm just, oh wait, and am I just stupid? Is that what I have peace about it? But this kind of what I think he said, if God is real, then he set up reality in a way that allows that uncertainty. If he's real and he created us, made us, made this universe, he left the possibility of his lack of existence open. And Paul would kind of disagree on that one because the heavens declare blah blah blah. He left that open. And to me, the idea of a loving God and a love to me, the idea of a loving God, oh, and a loving father who leaves that possibility open and yet condemns people to hell if they don't figure it out right, I just really struggle with that because it doesn't feel like a loving

father thing to do. I sort of just reject that whole idea because I just don't think it makes any sense. If God was like that, it just doesn't feel very loving to me. So I'm not sure that it's the God we're talking about in the Christian God. When I read the Bible and the images of God in the New Testament, that doesn't feel right to me. Again, he sent his son on the cross on the day. Again, I'm going to how I'm feeling here so it could be totally wrong. Nice. But my intuition sort of tells me that either God's not real and we don't have to worry about hell or he is real and he's way more loving and inclusive and mysterious than we give him credit for. He left out the one option that says he's real and the thing that the Bible communicated was accurate. Like he's And that's who he says he is? Yeah. Yeah. That's weird. Anyway, he did not say he did not say why the pandemic drove just because it caused them to slow down. I mean, that's true. I suppose they lost income. There's no shows going on, so it's like, well, I guess so I don't have to keep up the charade. Yeah.

I mean, I prefer I mean, I I would I'm glad he, you know, was honest, I guess, rather than, you know, potentially lead people in a path that that he doesn't believe in. Yeah. I just like, here's the thing. I totally get this question. I just don't I don't what I don't understand is the level of certainty people have in

the question that causes them to lose entire faith in Jesus. Like Or their ability to rely on their own feelings. How many times have your feelings led you astray? I mean, all the time. Like, when you get up at, two in the morning and go to the bathroom and you're like, have a feeling there's somebody in here. And it's like a plant with a weird shadow. And you were anxious. You were honest anxious with an honest reaction, and that was not the truth at all.

Or you thought, hey man, I'm certain that my wife has died in a car accident. I'm certain of it. I don't know. I just got this feeling or whatever. And then you come home and there she is sitting on the couch. You're like, well, I was wrong about that. Doesn't work. The ghost of my wife is here. Yeah. I mean, can conjure up all kinds of things, know? And so like, not to say that like, there are all your feelings are real to you, but like the amount of trust that you give them, I mean, mine have just led me astray so often. Like the person on top of a building that that's on hallucinatory drugs, hallucinate drugs, and and they think, I just really feel like I can fly. I could fly. Yeah. And and it doesn't work. It never does.

Yeah. I feel angry, I feel like I'm justified in giving my boss this number. And then as you walk out to the parking lot with the stuff from your desk, you think, boy, wish I wouldn't have gone. I wish I would've done that. Yeah. I was misplaced. Or like even even basic things like, boy, I'm pretty sure that my that my wife is angry at me. She she wasn't. Why why did you feel that way? Or more often, I'm pretty sure my wife is not angry at me. Yeah. You were incorrect, sir. It takes an amazing amount of arrogance

to think you can deconstruct God and reconstruct him in your image and he's good with that. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the thing. Is that like

the the one thing and this has been pretty consistent around listening to people talk about using that those that language like deconstructing faith, reconstructing. Is that like construction as a concept

requires some sort of foundation. Like, you're not really reconstructing. You're like looking at clouds fly by and go, what do I think? What do I think that looks like to me? Talking about walls here and there and Yeah.

Like like the the the reason the Christian faith as it has, let's just say broadly been constructed has been done so on the backs of the realities that are communicated through strict scripture about God's behavior and character,

the historical realities of his people, the demonstration of those things over time in and through his people that have been witnessed and otherwise cataloged and other things. Like, the notion of Christianity has a foundation, has been constructed atone that foundation. And so to deconstruct it isn't just get to go, I just don't know if I feel like I believe in hell. I will grant that I think there is more ambiguity in our notion of hell than a lot of times we want to give credit for because we don't want muddy waters.

I know for a fact is an eternal separation from God. I know that. Past that, I'm probably open to some discussion. But like but the thing is is that is that like the the Christianity isn't constructed upon that concept alone. And so now, like for me for me to to to actually like depart my faith,

I don't get to just part ways on whatever social issue I don't particularly wanna follow Jesus in this day. I have to go, oh, and you know what? Those those times when my people in my community heard from God and reacted and the exact and the thing happened, like the 15 times I've seen it. Or the person that I know was healed or

the persistence of long term marriages

following faithful Christian principles. Like, I gotta start chucking absolutely everything. Everything in my life and like all these other things and say, the the the doctrine of Jesus is a historical person and the notion of people dying for their faith of within the first and second centuries when they had no reason to lie, Jesus was already dead. Like, these are all things I have I don't just get to throw out, oh, I just this concept, I just don't have a firm grasp on it. And the way that you asked that really made me think, and I just don't think God would act that way. Like, it's not that easy. It's dissing it's disingenuous.

Just like it's disingenuous for me to reject someone else's to to reject someone else's religion. I do believe I'd like I believe Christianity is true. I know enough about other religions to have competently thought about it. So I don't just go, oh, oh, well, I just don't want to because I don't feel like it's right. Like, I'm in the search of truth here. I think God is on the side of truth. I think he'll show it. And so, like, I it's just it just seems disingenuous to me, and I think especially with the level of influence like a guy like this has, like, I get that it was probably hard. It was probably hard on him, but like,

just because it's hard and just because on the other side of it, some sense of peace didn't make it true. It it didn't make it right. And like struggling with the notion of of

sin that causes separation from God and there being a consequence to that and but a but a path where we don't have to bear it on our own. Like, I'm not saying these aren't things that humans wrestle with. God's ways and nature are probably things we're not gonna implicitly just come out of the womb going, yeah, I totally understand and am on board with all of this stuff. That's what makes him God and us not. That's what the presence of sin in our life influences. Like, I totally get all that. But like, you just just because something seems difficult doesn't mean you get to go, oh well, I disagree with God on this one but like, I'm just gonna throw the whole thing out. I mean, thing is is is like this hell conversation, it comes up a lot. Yeah. Right? And and

the actual truth of it, where you're What does he say? He says, he tells me that either God's not real and we don't have to worry about hell, or he is real and he's way more loving and inclusive and mysterious. Here's the thing, he couldn't be more inclusive. It is your choice. That's the inclusive part. I will welcome absolutely anybody to my kingdom. This is the way my kingdom works. Everybody is invited. The loving God gives you a choice to say no to that. Right? It's it's even if you acknowledge hell or not acknowledge hell, if you say, God says, I would like for you to be with me in my kingdom

for eternity. Please come in. And you say, I'm not interested. And God goes, okay. I'm sorry to hear that. But okay, it gets to be your choice, right? And so you made the choice to be apart from God for eternity, and God honored that choice.

That does not sound like it's being not inclusive. That sounds like he made the offer to everybody and said, Look, I paid for your admission. You're welcome to come in. This is the way the kingdom acts. This is how we handle ourselves in the kingdom and this is what's gonna work best here. And you said no. And you just said no. I get what you're saying. You're like, I feel like I'm being punished. You're not being punished. Your choices are being honored. They're honored, yeah. Right, which is more than like a God who is not

loving would not honor your choices because he has zero respect for you and doesn't give you any place of honor, Right? That is not what God's doing. God is elevating you higher than your level, honoring your choice, and to

his own sadness, right, that you chose to not be with him. But he honors your choice unless you have that and then you call that a consequence. That is not the right way to look at it. It's not even an accurate way of looking at it. The accurate way is he's a God of choice because you cannot have love without choice. And so if you want to love and you want to follow God, then that gets to be your choice. If you do not want to, that also gets to be your choice and he honors that even

if it's to your own detriment. And like, that's your whole life, friend. You got to choose that. And so, like, I I I have a hard time listening to this non inclusive talk, Right? Like, that God didn't didn't open it up for everybody. You know, that's like that's like opening up a play place, you know, from that was designed for ages zero to seven, and then here comes 22 year old, three hundred fifty pound linebacker man, and he's like, I cannot believe they will not let me in here. Look, you can come in here, but you're gonna break everything. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, that's a terrible joke. You were allowed in when you were six, maybe. Yes. I That was the bad That was a bad example. But, you know, guess because you know what we're getting at? Like like, you were you were offered the chance to come in and you said no. Well, think of it like and this is where the example of like, hey, it's I don't think a good father would act that way. Like if I were let's say we were giving away pie at after after dinner and I and I told my my oldest daughter, said, hey, Come get a piece of pie. No. I don't want one.

I said, oh, okay. I mean, it's pie. There's pie out here, man. Come on. Come in and have have one. I don't want one. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna go take her off the couch, pull her by the hair, and say, you will eat this pie? Right. I bought the pie. It's ready to serve. I got it out. It's on the counter. It's yours. I think so, like, it is totally a dead thing to do to go, look, man. I gave you two crack cracks at this pie. I'm gonna eat this pie. You you I offered you something really good, and you didn't wanna get off the couch. You didn't want it. You said you did not want it, and so I ate it. Or I gave it to somebody else. Right. Right. Yeah. And this pie is perpetually good until you die. And I the offer is there. You can have it anytime between now and then, and it will symbolize that you are now part of the family. Let's do this thing. Nope. Nope. Nope. And then you die and go, I cannot believe I didn't get any pie. Yeah. This is junk. What kind of dad wouldn't force me to eat the pie or would offer me pie to begin with? Like, don't understand what the critique is. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a that's a very I can't I can't even think of a way to describe it, but like a like a it's a consequence that you chose. Right? And like a a it's systematic

of the way that we are. Like, I can't believe they're forcing me to blah blah blah. You absolutely chose to do all this. Every choice you've made up to this point in your life, any situation that you've had enough of, or you're mad at the world for, you think everybody is treating you poorly, like, every choice you've made up to this point has put you in this exact situation. And now you're angry at the world, what it won't happen to blah blah blah. Mean, boy, you're really just abdicating your entire responsibility in this whole thing. All you had to do was accept the pie. That's all you had to do. Yeah. They say, that's what I have to do? What's the rules? Well, when you come in here, you gotta sit down, you gotta put napkin on your thing, and you gotta eat with a fork. I I prefer if you don't eat with a spoon. It causes all kinds of wreckage. Well, I'm bringing a spoon in here. Now hold on. That's just not what's gonna happen. Know? Like, that's the kingdom of God. God says this is how it works at the pie table. This is how we live. This is what we do. And you said you did not want no part of it. And then you're like, okay, God won't let anybody in with the spoon. What's his place? And

he knows if he lets a bunch of spoons in here, things are gonna go poor. And so he says, no spoons. And then you're like, but I want a spoon. I wanna be special. I wanna be the guy that's coming here with a spoon. And like God says, look, it's not gonna work if I let everybody have a spoon, and you insist on rocking in there anyway. It's like just complete misrepresentation of the way the gospel works. I'm gonna deconstruct this pie and I'm gonna make it bread pudding. Yeah. And that's what I want. You ought to like me liking bread I want bread pudding for all my days. It's like, what? Yeah. I I think it's it's less irritating. I don't know. It's it's it's just irritating. But it's coming coming to the conclusion that

my oldest daughter goes, yeah, based upon I I just don't think my dad would ever, you know, not have me eat that pie even though I said no. So I don't think my dad's real. He's fake dad. Fake dad. He was never in the kitchen to begin with. He didn't force me to eat the pie. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna ignore everything, the fact that my family interacts with him, the fact that I have numerous years in relationship with him. I'm a chuck that out because of this pie thing and he wasn't real. Like, it's just a weird it's a weird conclusion and like I you know, like I've done plenty plenty of apologetics

research stuff. Like, I there are plenty of really good questions that people have forgot. Tons of them. I have them too. But like This is not one of them. No. It's it's not. Like, here's what this was saying, hey, man. I I just

it's it's a perfectly reasonable question to go, like, my understanding of love and and and and this consequence of being eternally separated from Jesus, like, I'm having trouble. Can you help me? Like, it's an answerable question. Probably less callously than we just approached in this pie example, but like, it's the it's a reality. No one likes a no one likes a harsh reality. But it's only harsh if you said no to the pie. Like, this is I'm You you've you've we've misled the question. Boy, why would god send someone to hell? I'm like, why did you choose not to eat the pie?

You could have just do the pie and then we didn't Yeah. God didn't send you anywhere. You chose to go. Had to walk through door. Said, I don't want no pie, I'll take this chasm over here. Oh man, don't take the chasm. I'm telling you. Don't do the chasm. So like that's the thing is that like, just be, if if you've got doubts and stuff, like, I do like, like, we've talked about this before. Embrace them. Like, just ask the question. God's not afraid of the questions. You're probably not the first one. If I can guarantee you're not the first one to have this particular most accusations that I've ever heard someone level of Ginsad from the staunchest atheist have come out of the mouths of the minor prophets. Like, they just like, god, where were you?

Yeah. David would do the same thing. And to and read your Psalms Almost uncomfortably. Yeah. He'd read and go, now David, listen, I don't think you should be really talking to God this way. That's right. There. He almost said, I don't remember which Psalm it was, but like what it brought to mind the accusation against the gods who didn't send the fire. Elijah was like, god, where were you? What were you doing?

Were you off doing such and such because Israel awaits? We've we feel like we've been abandoned by our king. And, like, you're like, boy, look at that that guy accused God of, like, totally leaving him be and, like, not fighting for the side of justice and abandoning good. Like, God's people have gone through this over and over again, and it's in the scripture that it happened. Mhmm. So, like, totally ask your questions, but, like, don't I guess I would like, if you're going to be let's just at least be intellectually honest here. Let's be let's be true that you can't just forego responses just because you feel like something. Like, it's it's just not they're just not trustworthy. I wish you're I wish they were. I wish our emotions were trustworthy, but, like, if you ever use the phrase, I overreacted or at least thought in your mind, boy, I overreacted, that's you and your emotions not carrying you in the right method. That's you some something lied to you. You should get this angry. And then you got back to it and you said, I shouldn't have got that angry. No. That was a mistake. Right. Like, I handle you have apologized for anything. You that means because your your your emotions

told you that this was the thing and you you go, yeah. I'm all in and whatever you say, I'm in it. And it didn't work out because they weren't right. They didn't read the situation correctly. And so I think that's what we're asking you to do is that like something that is of this much consequence. Hock Nelson. That's the way that was that's that's the name of the band. That's not the guy's name. Anyway, like

like, boy, I I had a feeling just doesn't seem like enough to be like, well, thousands of thousands of years of history and, you know, evidence of the active Holy Spirit, and changing the world with good stuff, and it seems like a lot to throw out because you felt like this particular question was unanswerable. And I'm gonna grant you, like, 30% of the books on the Christian bookstore shelf are trying to deal with this particular question. So, I mean, I would also ask how far did you look. Right. We've been talking about this for a long time. Alright.

You ready? You ready? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got time for one. Those those went longer than I thought. Just one? What's that? Yeah. Okay. Hold on. We'll do Yeah. Wait. I don't care. You can do two of them. Not two. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Dear life from the path. Every day when my husband comes home, he takes off his shoes to relax. Yeah. He works hard outdoors, more than ten hours daily. His feet smell horrible. Nice. Unbearable to be around. We have tried insoles, baking soda, foot sprays, and even health checks, which helped but didn't get rid of the problem. He gets offended when I ask him to change his socks and wash his feet. To him, I'm out of line to continually point it out, but I can't even sit in the same room with him. Hip.

Yeah. Yeah man, he should change his socks, man. Yeah. Just because it ain't funking him out doesn't mean it ain't funking others out. That queer brother, yeah. You you could walk in the door and go, oh, oh, no. No. Take yeah. Robbie is in the room. Yeah. Just yeah. Yeah. They smelled like Fritos in his situation. So but still, was like, no. Yeah. Get those out of here. I used to have my brother stay at my house sometimes and like, it smelled like cat peat in there. Yeah. I'm like, good night, man. Those go outside. You can't do that in here. And and he took it well. You know, he put them outside and then went and washed his feet and everybody was happy, you know. I mean, he must know. I mean, it's it's your feet. Right? And maybe you get used to it but still, like, kinda know. Like, if you hear it a lot, it's like, Yeah. I mean, there must be something about my chemistry that makes my feet smell. I don't know. I mean,

not to say that, like, it's not that I don't understand the guy's opinion. Like, every day you get home from work and you're like, man, I just need to be I'm just glad to be home, and then the first thing out of your wife's mouth is your feet stink again. Hey. Now now here's the thing though, that wouldn't be his everyday experience if he just said when he shows up, I'm a sit down and shave my socks. Yeah. I don't think it's a I'm gonna take them off in the garage before I get in the house Yeah. However their house is set up. Stink. I'm gonna fix this. Yeah. I mean, what if it's like 10 below outside? Gotta pull off the boots and socks outside? I mean, put them on a porch. Here's the thing. I think there's options. Now Plastic bag, wrap them up. If I were her, I would expect every three weeks or so like, he's working ten hour a day, sounds like he works hard. He's gonna forget every once in a while and like, you're gonna have to say something, he's gonna be like, ugh, and be irritated. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. I get it. You're working hard. But like, certainly, it's not unreasonable for this man to recognize that his feet don't stank and he should go inside and here's maybe she sets out a fresh pair. Maybe it matters a lot. Yeah. Maybe you could help some out for him. Yeah. You go, fact, play it off like an Epsom salt bath. They're like, why don't you put them hardworking feet inside this Epsom salt bath and let massage a little bit? Yeah. I mean, you don't have to like trick them or anything, but like, look, we're both gonna get what we want here. I want that stuff to go away, and then you get to have a nice little foot massage right now. Yeah. Some fresh foot mittens, make this happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I would so our advice to her then is you're not being unreasonable

but but try to find a way to to make him feel loved in the process. Yeah. Like because he's again,

you've described him in such a way that he feels like a it sounds like a a a decent dude. He's a hardworking man. He probably does just wanna relax. Now, frankly, if he's allowed if he's gonna leave the house and work ten hours and work hard, the extra forty five seconds to change his socks cannot be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Right. That's not fair to you. But you help him out. Like, get just you want him to change his socks? Get some down. Maybe set them out for him. If you're gonna be home, it's an extra step for you, but you're asking him to take an extra step too. Just meet him halfway and see if you can get him to a good habit that way. Yeah. I agree. Let's see. Segula says, there is a name for your husband's very common medical condition. It's bromodosis,

and it is fixable. It's the result of sweat and the growth of bacteria and possibly fungus. Your husband should discuss this again with his doctor. Directions for treating his condition are also available online, but they are longer than my column can accommodate. Do a search on with healthline.com would be a good place to start. He should also carry an extra pair of shoes and socks and change them in the course of the workday. Let's hope that from now on, your husband will put his best foot forward. Hey, man. If you sent me an extra pair of socks and shoes, I'd be super irritated. Changing your shoes in the middle of the day is terrible. It's terrible.

I mean, changing the shoes at your house at the end of the day seems mister Rogers ish, which means it feels like slightly acceptable. Having to stop like, for some my mind, he works some sort of, like, construction or Construction or something. Yeah. And he's like, time out, boys. Gotta swap out because I got the stink of digits. Like Yeah. That seems a little odd. They if they don't What if you end up stinking both of them up? Now you're out your extra pair of shoes. Yeah. You just doubled your work. I'd save it. Yeah. I'd say I'd say I'd it at home. And and frankly, I'd that's that's some terrible advice. Hey. Thanks for writing to me advice. I suggest you Google it. Love me. Yeah. There's gotta be some foot powder or something that can help with that. But Yeah. I mean, I'd overdo it. Whatever the experts have said, double it. Yeah. See how that goes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last one. Ready? Yep. Your life from the path.

Since the coronavirus lockdown began, my wife and I have been cooped up together all day every day. Though we have lived together for thirty five years, she's now discovering that, quotes, that I, quotes, don't cook vegetables correctly. It goes without saying that I'm no longer allowed to prepare the entrees. I don't sort the trash the way she thinks it should be, so I can't take out the garbage without her first inspecting it. Not only do I not wash the dishes properly, I don't even wash my face right. Thus far, the only thing I seem to be able to do is to go to the restroom without her supervision, but I lock the door now just in case she decides to commit. I realized that during the Ted's time, people feel a loss of control over their own lives and try to compensate however they can. I'm able to hang out onto my patients almost all the time, but occasionally, I want to either scream

at her or look for an apartment of my own. Do you have any advice for either or both of us? Mhmm. This is like your first year of retirement. I mean I mean, when you're like, hey, we're suddenly back together like when we haven't been man, enjoy the fact she's cooking. Yeah. I mean you've always You've always done this stuff wrong, right? This is not new. You've been doing this wrong for years. Yeah.

I mean, this gets real hard, right? Especially with moms, right, that have had kids. They're used to paying attention,

you're an added kid, mostly. They're looking over like, is everybody's laundry done? Did everybody get this up? They take their responsibility very seriously and it's very hard for them to just turn that off at drop of a hat. And so the fact that they walk around and they're like, look, you're not washing your face right, and those vegetables cannot be cooked the way that you're cooking them. Everybody has to have a little bit of room

for others' way of doing things, and it's very difficult, especially if that responsibility falls on you most of the time. It's hard to watch someone do it not the way you would do it. But at the end of the day, these are small things. But either she's not handling the pandemic well or he just hasn't been doing any of this stuff. Yeah. And now he's suddenly trying to do it. Yeah.

So there could be deeper things there. But he is now. Yeah. So I mean, it literally is like your first year of marriage and your first year of retirement, right? Like, these are things. The first year of marriage, you went from not living with them probably for the first

x number of years of your life, and all of a sudden, wham, you gotta figure out how to shove two lives together. And then as you get married and raise kids, there's always something in between you. There's always kids or your house or something that you're working. And then after the retirement shows up, you're like, okay, now we're getting a lot closer together again. Wow, And I hate the way you wash your face. That's really funny. I can say the vegetable thing, like my wife and I like our vegetables different. Like a little bit of firmness still in there, and she likes them to be really mushy.

I don't think she's wrong, she just likes them that way. She's like, okay, so I'll cook yours a little longer. Won't cook mine as long. My wife will straight burn the fries trying to get crispiness out of them. Like, yeah. Their directions said 20. I live and die by their directions. Me too. I don't know how to do it. I have no skills. Right? So I'm like, to the minute it's coming out when it says it's done. She's like, put it in there longer. It took longer. Well, how long? I don't know. Seven minutes? I'm like, where'd you come up with that figure? Because like, I just, I wouldn't know that, you know? She'll, hers turned out fine and like, after the twenty minutes on the package, we're eating it because the guy who made the product said it takes twenty minutes and that's what we're gonna do. And so, like, once again, it's just people trying to figure out how to do the stuff. You know? And so, like, what's your advice here? Like, treat it like it's your first year of marriage. Right? And and and figure out you're just gonna I mean, you could be washing your face wrong. I would probably do it in secret. Like, hey, did you wash your face? Of course, I did. It's done already. Don't don't pay attention. Yeah. I mean, you could move everything to the bathroom. You can make your vegetables in there. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Put the foreman in there. Yeah. And what are you doing in there? Avoiding your nitpicking. I mean, like, it's the same thing I probably would say to someone in the first year of marriage is that, like, hey, man. Be prepared that someone has an opinion on your life. And

dear lady, try not to have an opinion on everything in this man's life. He's like, he has to get used to the fact. Like, it will be much better if he asks it from you than if you force it upon him. And so just for your own best interest, maybe you let him wash his face. Like, is it killing him? It's probably not killing him. Seems to have survived so far. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, maybe let some of that stuff go. This marriage has stretched and been before, right? Like, just just let it do it again. It'll be fine. Yep. Secular says, you are far from the only spouse who is experiencing this. Your comment about your wife's hypervigilance and fault finding being her way of coping with her anxieties is perceptive.

If you haven't talked with her, calmly, about how her behavior is affecting you, please do it before you explode. Being cooped up altogether all day every day isn't healthy for either of you. You both should be getting out separately for at least thirty minutes of walking. 60 could be even better. And sunlight every day. Man, if I understood, marriage counseling is wasted. Are you walking and getting sunlight? Because Separately? I mean, you could go on a walk together. I don't think whatever these situations preclude you from enjoying a nice walk together. No. Because then you'd be like, do you always walk like that? With like that sort of half shovel? I hate that. Are

those the shoes you're gonna wear on our walk? Those are your good shoes, you dummy. Yeah. Good luck there, friend. I mean, now,

again, to this fella, if she's ever talked to you about washing your face and you continue to do it wrong, wrong, I mean, you could just learn after the first round, like, know what shoes I'm supposed to wear, what I'm supposed to do. And like, I wouldn't make that distinction on my own, but my wife goes, you're supposed to wear these. I'm like, done. I will only make that mistake once. And then it's smooth sailing. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, to be honest, friend, if you've been married for, like, thirty five years,

what are you new at this? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your wife says you're washing your face wrong, just adhere to her way of face washing. There's no way she's having you do it less. Right? There's no possible way that she's having you do a worse job. She's probably always calling you to do a better job, and you don't want to do it. So, like, of all the things I've not met a wife people were like, my wife is always nagging me. She's never nagging you to do something lazier than you're currently doing it. And so so the odds are you're probably halfing it out anyway. Right. So just accept her encouragement to do a better thing and scrub your whole face and and just get it done. I don't wanna I don't wanna You know, hon, you spend too much time washing your face, says no wife ever. You know what I'm saying? Last thing. The exercise and change in scenery would not only be healthy, but may lower both of your stress levels. However, if that isn't sufficient, the two of you should discuss what's going on with her physician. Yeah. That sounds right. Hey. We need to go see your doctor. There's something wrong with you. Good luck with that one, friend.

Holy cats. No. No. Don't do that. That's the worst advice I've ever heard. I think I think there's something wrong with you, to be honest Yeah. On this face thing. Would you like to go see your physician together?

He doesn't cook the vegetables right. Yeah. I'm trying to see what the doctor would be like. Yeah. He's like, I ain't got time for this. So you're saying he's eating vegetables? Yeah. This is great. I tell you what. I've given steroids to somebody. So who who wants it? Yeah. I mean, I know these taking walks together wasn't working out for us, but I think a trip to your doctor to get you straightened out would probably be helpful. Yeah. How much gonna sail. How much sunshine have you been getting? Like, kill me at nanometers. How much sunshine you've taking in? Because it's very important. 850 lipses every day. Alright. You've listening to Live From The Past. That's terrible. Don't don't do that. Don't do that. Don't ever try to tell your spouse that you think we should go see their personal physician together. Yes. I don't I mean, for any unless it's a health reason and they're being real stubborn, but this here is a this is a marital Yeah.

With knickknack. Not even a dispute. It's just a knickknack. Like even if something like, hey, it's it's a giant goiter. What do you think about getting that looked at? Start there. Yeah. Like, let them offer and say, yeah, you know, I should go to my doctor. Okay. Yes. I agree. Yeah. I mean, unless like I mean, I can see the guy right now. Hey, man. It's the only part of my face I don't have to shave. Look at it. Don't grow no hair. Yeah. Yeah. I love this thing. I'm gonna leave it. Yeah. I called it Steven. Me and Steven are staying home. Alright. You've listening live with that. Thank you for hanging out with us. Really do appreciate it. Hey. If you got complaints of the show or you love it, which is odd, but we do appreciate you guys who do. The line is (515) 517-0085.

(515) 517-0085. I'm gonna tell you a secret. I actually personally love the show. I I listen back to it, and I find enjoyment out of it even though I was there. Yeah. And I think it was a oh, actually, yeah, that's alright. I laugh out loud, and my wife finds me ridiculous. She'll she'll like, what are you laughing at? And then I have to go, well, I've listened to the show. I play I play a game with myself called, is Ben still talking? Like, I'll pull up to the drive a drive thru window and turn to showdown. And then I then after I order, get the food, and pay, and leave, I'm like, is Ben still talking? Chappell.

It's it's really fun. You should try it. Alright. Alright. That's 10 points every time you write. Let us know your score on the complaint line. 5155170085. We will see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful means God will hand to the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.