Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path. And you're listening to Live With The Path. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston proper. It is lovely to be with you on this evening. And boy, this is sorry. This is awkward because we're recording in a room of which I normally have video to look at. I look at you fellows when the show's gonna start, and I take you in and I pray for your souls, and it didn't happen today. You're flying blind. I feel empty. You're going to lose yeah. As you should. Here's what here's I I think what we got going on the show what the heck was that? What's that? What's that the sound of? That's the sound of Bible trivia. Hit it with me again.

Yeah. Don't that don't seem like hold on. Here's the just prepare yourself because here's the categories. Ready? I'm ready. Category one, Old Testament. Yeah. I'm ready. Category two, history and geography. That's for me, geography. Category three, prophets and prophecy. Okay. Yep. Category four, names. Category five, letters, numbers, and sequence. Oh, no. Oh, boy. Category six, New Testament. Uh-huh. And the one that takes Mike out, wisdom. Wisdom. Oh, there it was. There it was. Wisdom crying in the streets. Hold on. I'm giving you a quick I'm gonna give you a quick Quick taste. Okay. Quick taste. Dan? Yeah. Pick from these six categories. Old Testament, history and geography, prophets and prophecy, names, letters, numbers, New Testament, wisdom. I I have to go New Testament because, you know, I'm a New Testament guy. K. New Testament.

Let's think about that. Who said, Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and head? Peter. Peter. Cephas. Simon is acceptable as well. Simon. Cephas. Peter. They're all the same. Nathaniel, you're gonna get the wisdom question. Okay. Good. Fill in the following two blanks of Philippians two ten with one word each. Okay. At the name of Jesus, every blank should blank. Knee shall bow. Every knee shall bow. Correct. Yes. Ben, letters, number, and sequence. Oh, man. Which book of the Bible immediately follows Isaiah?

Ezekiel. No, idiot. Jeremiah. You don't know the Bible. What is it? Jeremiah is a correct answer. After

you guessed it second. I got it on the second. Yeah. It's bad I never really memorized that stuff. Like, that's like the Sunday school stuff you're supposed to do? I've been preaching for thirty seven years. I'm like, yeah, know. I can look it up. I can look it up. Yeah. That's why would I bother? Yeah. That's exactly right. What are we what are are we doing at what are we looking at in church? Nehemiah? Nehemiah. I mean, we've been in Nehemiah for like a month, and I go still to the front and be like, what page is Nehemiah on? I have no idea. I gotta go looking it up. Just open your screen, it says Nehemiah, you push the button. Yeah. Hello. It just goes there. Do you guys have multiple bookmarks in your Bibles? Nah. I tried that. I have a hard time with it. Yeah. That's what's I had that. I can't use both but I only have one. And so, like, if I'm teaching in multiple books at once or studying different books, then I I I can't find Nehemiah again. I gotta look it up. I used have lots of little little pieces of paper in there to back when I would do that, I kept go back and forth and the paper flying around. I used to have the kids put their their tabs right in so Yeah. You could see it. Oh, yeah. Just right off the bat. And I don't know why I got away from that. I'd man, I didn't wanna look silly and put it in my own bible, but I wish it was there. Yeah. Secretly. Okay. We got big stuff to talk about. Yeah. Can't be jelling about this all day. So here's what we got going on the show tonight. So there was a there was a list that came out. There was a guy who posted named Jim Palmer. He said he was a pastor at the largest church in North America and he had 25 mistakes that he made. Wait a minute. Was he really the pastor at one of the largest churches of America? I I don't recognize him, but I know don't recognize him. Like, I pastor a big giant church. He says I was a pastor. Oh. Maybe he was just one of the dudes who like pastor garbage or something. I think it's one these guys who went all woke and everything and then I know he doesn't need Jesus anymore. So

so anyway, we're gonna look at these we're gonna look at these 25 he says 25 mistakes I made and he's real quippy with these. And so we're gonna walk through them and we're gonna figure out like, these we agree with these, don't don't agree with these. Okay. Yeah. Good. And then we're I I think we're gonna pop in a little bit more bible trivia. Yeah. Good. We're gonna see if we can handle this this trivia action. Yeah. We got some deer life from the path. And then we got some deer life from the path. I think I think if we can nail those, then we've that will sail the town away. Listen, Nathaniel, did you have anything? No. I was just looking at that list because I have a hard time listening. Oh, okay. So you gotta see it. You gotta take it in. Gotta take it in. Okay. Or I'm gonna get confused because I'm a dullard. Okay. That's fair. I mean, you gotta know who you are. Okay. So

Dang it. I just did a search Google search for dear life from the path. What's wrong with me? You, my colored. This is not bringing up any type of results at all. Okay. So let's let's I'm gonna read the whole thing and then we'll come back to it. Okay? Yeah. So this is from Jim Palmer. He says, back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Here are 25 mistakes I made. Putting church over community, putting orthodoxy over love, putting certainty over wonder, putting teaching over conversation, putting polished over real, putting explanations over empathy, putting answers over questions,

putting membership over friendship, putting prayer over action, putting services over self care, putting style over substance, putting appearance over authenticity, putting functionality

over beauty, putting religion over spirituality, putting numbers over faces, putting holiness over humanity, putting accountability over acceptance,

putting heaven over earth, putting meetings over relationships, putting reputation over risk, putting superiority over humility, putting charisma over compassion, putting the afterlife over the here life, putting doctrine over reason, and putting hierarchy over equality. Yeah.

Yeah. We're we're gonna go through them one at a time because we need to talk about this. There's some the thing is is like on the whole like I read the list and I'm like, you know, I don't know. Like I could make a case for a lot of these. In fact, for most of them, depending on what you mean by them. Yeah. Definitions are big. Yeah. Yeah. Do we know what he meant by that? That's right. So so let's let's find the first one is so supposed mistake number one, putting church over community. Yeah. What what does he mean by community? What does he mean by church? Yeah. See, we're already Well, let's just assume let let's let's take him let's say that he's a good Jesus man and we assume he means something good here. So like like, could could a critique on some of the of of our modern church structure be we put church over community? Yeah. Okay. That that's the right way. That that's the right question is what if we said in what way could this be a right critique? Yes. Mhmm. Mhmm. And so I would say if you define church as meaning your what what you might think of as your internal community, and the spiritual health and well-being

of only the people inside the walls that doesn't prescribe relationships and care for those outside of the walls, then yes, this could be a mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's it's it's more of a weariness to make sure that you're not looking at your church as a all inclusive club, or we got this figured out and you guys don't, or we're higher up on the organization than you are. You know, for trying to talk about what our life with Jesus looks like, it looks like I I know something.

And if you don't know it, I would love to tell you because it's the most amazing thing. And like if you can keep that simple thought process, then I think you look at your church and your community correctly. What would be a way that he could mean this poorly? Well, I think if you well, I I think that this is the risk in the whole list is it's a it's a false dichotomy.

Like, all of these represent that, like, you you have one option or Yeah. That, like, either I'm focused on the church or I'm focused on the community. Like, would look at this and say, first of all, your church is community. And so like, the the people who and and again, if you think of are you think talking church as in your building, your infrastructure, your classes, your programs, Or are you saying that the the the committed body of believers who happen to agree to come together at a specific time to be encouraged and worship and to go back out and do good and positive things into the world and help people meet Jesus? Because like, that they live in community. Like they there is a there's a micro community, which is your church gathering, and then those people go out and they have definitions and and actions in multiple communities. And so like, say putting church over community misdefines churches if it's not a community in and above itself, and if those people don't also exist in communities outside of the one of which focuses on Jesus. And so like, I think that's a non this is a non thing.

And so if he wants to say, look, don't be insular. He just found a little quippy way to do it. Yeah. That's fine. But I I think I'd be real careful with how you use both of those words. Prescribes an animosity that doesn't exist or doesn't have to. The way I read this was not necessarily like the the community, like the people in the church, but rather like the church as like a system or as a as a corporation, really. Yeah. Like And I and I think that that is probably a a thing to keep an eye out on. Because he's he's coming through the the mindset of a mega church, which is a massive machine corporation thing. That's true. We're we're talking about it on the ground level here. Yeah. I'm sure he's running a much, you know, there's there's different sections of his and he's got multiple pastors and blah blah blah. Let's let's give him some benefit of the doubt and say, look, you know, yeah, it is a risk the bigger that you get that you are running more of a business than a church. I mean, because like at the end of the day, you know, we like to to not make a big deal of it, but like someone's got I mean, we gotta keep the lights on. Yep. We gotta keep paying people. You know, we gotta someone's gotta clean the carpet. Product or, you know, it's all Yeah. If our parking lot doesn't run-in a certain way, we're liable. You know? And so like there there is a lot of bigger stuff, you know? Yeah. Okay. So Yeah. I would agree with him if that's in in that if I can understand where he's coming from that way, I'd say, okay, I'm I'm with him on this. But in my context, like, well, church like like Vincent, the church is community. I mean, like it's it's I've also been at at small churches where people don't know anybody. They're strangers. You know? Right. So they're not community. Right. So you you the goal is for church too to be community and community to be church.

To prioritize one over the other, I could see that getting you off balance and and causing issues. Yeah. But don't you think like if the division exists in your head, it's gonna exist in your actions? Right? Like if you come at it already thinking that, then you're you've already kind of started yourself off on a rough foot to try to to try to fix. Right? If you look at it the other way and say, look, my community is is my church and my church is my community and and and our whole goal is to go out and and, you know, tell the gospel to people that like everybody that we meet, then like they're all the community and they're all, you know, potentially the church. So like, you've you've kinda started off on a weird weird foot. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's by even framing it the way he has. Yes. It doesn't propose a a way to mature through it. It simply calls it out like you have like you have two things that are at war with each other and you should choose community over church. Right. Yeah. And that and that you're right. That's false. That's a misunderstanding of both church and community. The second one was putting orthodoxy over love. What's what's the way which you might understand this critique well, of which he would be right?

Which he'd be right. Does it mean like high church, like putting something that doesn't really matter within like a church service or order? He's speaking doctrinally. Like doctrine, truth of scripture. Truth over love. Love wins, love Okay. You know, that I think I think that's the debate going on. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I agree. So so if I if there's a way of which I could see this as a right critique, I think I think orthodoxy is love. I think the communication of doctrine is is a communication of of something that God intended for people to know,

and it to be a useful guide to help understand God better and to understand themselves better. And so I don't I do not believe them to be mutual exclusive. However, I think I think this the risk in this one is that if you use God's doctrine to otherwise

affect human manipulation, like that doesn't come with the heart of God, then I think you missed. Then I think we missed it. And so you should be communicating these things in such a way that God wanted people to hear them so that they may find rescue and hope. And if you're not communicating orthodoxy in that way, then you're failing at it. And so it's not a choice of one over the other. It's are you doing the one with the other? Yeah. I I think we

fail in in sometimes our succinctness. Right? Like, that Bible is a is a huge Bible, and it talks about God's character and and understanding who he is through the entire thing. You're not gonna be able to get that out in a twenty minute conversation with somebody. And if that's your plan, right, is to try to bust the entire, you know, orthodox doctrine thing like on them in that and go, so what do you think? You know what I'm saying? Or you should change your entire life based on the thing that I've just told you. That's probably an overestimation of the power of doctrine itself. Right? Like, doctrines are are are are rules and fences

and characters of God that lead you to know the God that you're being invited to follow. And so, yeah, I I think there's a I I mean, obviously, Jesus said it best. Right? Like, need to be shrewd as snakes and innocent doves. You need to and and you need to you need to and was it Paul that said you need to, you know, salt your conversations, right, with the way that you that you present things. People are different. People come from different things, and you can use diff varying degrees of salt depending on who you're talking to. It doesn't mean that the meal doesn't get delivered. It doesn't mean like you act there's no act like there's not potatoes on the plate. Right? But like, you don't get you don't get one bat that you're really good at swinging and then that's all you swing. I think that is unfair and I think sometimes if there's a risk in sometimes the approach, it's it's like, look, I've told you the story of Jesus Christ summed up in twenty minutes. How do you feel about your sinful ways now? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's probably putting orthodoxy over love. But like you can but what's like Ben said, like, truth truth is love. Right? Like, if telling people a lie or making them feel like their sin is not sin or making them feel like the the way that they're approaching a holy God is correct when it isn't, you you don't you're not loving them. You're you're holding their hand and walking them away from Jesus. Right? That's not good either. Mhmm. Yeah. Like, I I I we cheat on this because I think or we I think we cheapen it because where people are saying they have a a problem with orthodoxy, I think you had need to be honest. Are you are you saying I have a problem with Yahweh himself? Like,

it's not fair to blame a person or a doctrine when you when you are an unhappy with God on something. Right. You disagree with with Jesus. Yeah. Now, I mean, this gets an interesting questions around the veracity and the trustworthiness of the scriptures themselves. Okay. Great. Let's I mean, here's what we're saying. Most folks in that area aren't asking those questions anyway. That that you're debating things amongst other Christians when you start talking about that. Right? That that has not been my experience where people are like, can the Bible even be trusted or when it was dated or blah blah blah blah. Things that like I'm ultra prepared for when they bring it up and they never bring it up. They never. Oh, I mean, it's a pretty it's a pretty standard atheist rejection to say, look, I don't I don't need to get in the middle of any of these theological arguments because the Bible's bogus. Well, here's the thing. It's like I I I on the whole, I can't say I'm running to that many atheists. Yeah. I run into way more agnostics, way more that like, I don't know, or way more that I've never heard of this. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so like, that's that's where the Christian life starts to tell stories that like your actions start to tell stories that your words, you know, will eventually deliver the entirety of. You know, like I've just I can't our biggest threat to the gospel are not atheists. There's just not that many of them. Right? Like they're just they're not pounding down the doors. There there's most people are just like, I had no idea. You know, like they didn't know there was a love more more, of flat out more than they thought was that could exist. Grace is not a concept that they're that they're used to. Right? They're used to defending themselves and making sure that they're taken care of. And and so like, all this stuff is is way more brand new territory than I thought most people had run across Yeah. I'd say.

The third one was putting certainty over wonder. So so this one this one, I actually I strong I strongly agree with. I I think you do run the I I I think to the extent that you well, some certainty. So I I think it depends. Where there are places where I feel like we can walk certainly. I strongly agree. I do. It depends. I I do strongly agree. I I think I'm wavering. I think the church I think we've overstepped on places where we claim certainty that where it does not exist.

I think there are some very hard questions that people ask of scripture that if we're being honest, we have to say, I just have to trust that God is good. Or nobody was there. You weren't there. I wasn't there. This could mean multiple things. There's multiple ways to take it in that faithful people who love Jesus could this can work. And so I I think I think we've we've we've split in places. We've set fire to places over things that we have a human certainty on that I think scripture doesn't bear nor does it require and actually didn't even intend. I think that's the big thing nor does it require. Yeah. Right? It's weird what what things I mean, internally

with with our multiple denominations over some of the things we've decided like this is what we're going to do or the hill that we're gonna die on, you're like, boy, this just has no long term necessity. Right? Like like even little things like like what Jesus did the three days after he died, right, before he was risen again. I think it's a real interesting question. I think the Bible tends to bear some of it out. And I think some of us really disagree on one side or the other what happened. I'm like, I don't really care. Honestly, I just I don't care. I can't imagine. I mean, I'll just ask him when I get there, hey, what did you do? Yeah. Like I like some of that stuff yeah. Anyway, I guess just to roll it up. So I think I think it's a right critique. If we feel like we have to defend

the Bible farther than it is willing to defend itself. So where we feel like we have to overspeak for scripture and what it communicates because we think it's necessary to make a a case. I trust that the amount of information the scripture has given to me is sufficient for me to understand and follow and know Jesus, and and to meet the creator of the universe. I think places where it is silent must be okay, That it is silent in those areas. And I don't feel any need to defend scripture like it's missing something and I'm making an excuse for it like it's a drunk uncle at the party. It isn't. Yeah. Where it spoke, I expect I like, I'm confident in it. Where it doesn't speak, I don't feel any need to step in and make it sound like I or no. Because I mean, honestly, when it comes down to some of those arguments, like,

I'm just under the firm belief that like, if if people are gonna come to know God, the Holy Spirit's gotta be in the middle of it. Right? He's gotta be directing and prompting and moving and like, I'm I'm whatever my solid argument I think is, I'm okay with going, I don't know, man. I don't know. The Bible didn't speak to it. And like, you you gotta be comfortable with that because whatever gospel thing that you thought you were going to get done on your own steam, you're missing a key component. Right? And like, people who aren't prompted by the Holy Spirit to come know and come hear and have ears to hear the thing, your whiz bang words ain't gonna change that. Yeah. You know, if if this guy is a deconstructionist, which I believe I read he he is, I think he's probably going a bit further with this. K. There is certainty in the resurrection. I mean, I am 100% confident in that. You're

never gonna stop me from believing that. And I think he'd like you to have a well, maybe. You know, what if he what if he's not? But if he's just alive in our hearts because we remember him, you know, maybe there's maybe you misunderstand some of the the foundational things of faith. Because yeah. Because I mean, there there's certain things we're we're gonna like, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't know what what what color the staff Moses used when he hit a rock. I mean, you know, mean, I don't care. You know? But there's certain things that that are, like, key.

Death, burial, resurrection, you know, Jesus, the son of God, the Messiah. And a lot of these guys are wanting to to, like they'll they'll start you out on on this other issue, and then they'll bring you in. Yeah. And wouldn't you apply that to to hell, the reality of hell? Mean, is there really hell? You know? And and I think that's his background. So I mean, it's interesting to then to to to posture that against wonder. Because wonder kinda gives you, like, not the like, most people don't use that in like, oh, I wonder if it's just false. Like they they tend to use wonders and I I

I wonder if this is bigger than me and beyond our ability human ability to comprehend fully and so don't put a stake in the ground. Like, because I I I think Should I go with that? Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm on board with that. Uh-huh. So and I suppose you're, like, I guess to the extent where we would where we would part ways with this fella, if that if that his would be his position would be I think there are there are places where scripture has spoken and I have no reason. I don't have to wonder about those things. Now, always I I'm under the impression that whatever it is I'm taking in, God is probably dealing with something deeper and broader than whatever I've comprehended. Mhmm. But like, yeah, I would agree, like, I'm certain where God has spoken. But like, take take the origins of the universe. I that's wonder to me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think it's unclear on on like, I don't care. I don't need to sort out the Nephilim. Because because Dan, to your point, where where I where I trust completely in life, death, resurrection,

where Jesus lives, then everything else that Jesus affirms has to be true. How it's true, I got a lot of wonder in in some of these things. But you're right. You're right. We're we're the but but when you start saying, I wonder if this is even true, then I guess I would suggest to to to those to those folks, like, you're not talking about Christianity anymore. Right. Exactly. You're talking about something else. Yeah. And so like and and that's not even that's not even like the reconstruction. Like you moved to Ohio. You lived in Indiana.

You decided to move a state over. Let's not act like we're talking about the same thing. And I believe that's what this guy has done. He has moved. Well, that's unfortunate. And he's like trying to pull others with him, like, yeah, we should be wonder. Like Yeah. Yeah. And and I would say part of what likely guides someone to that type of movement is the misunderstandings that are inherent in the false dichotomies that are in some of these so far. Yeah. He probably paid more attention to conversation than teaching. Oh, yes. I believe it is. He in fact, he said. Oh. Mistake putting teaching over conversation.

Again, I don't know this isn't even like a Christian thing. Like, you you you mean, you're taking in a TED talk, bro? Like, people people can be taught, and then what do they do? They take that and then they'll have converse about it. If you're saying, like, as a pastor, you said my my if you overly focused here's where the critique could be right. If you overly focused, if you said my role is to be louder than everybody else, to speak and not deal with rebuttal, to speak and not deal with nuance or questions, but speak and and and say people should move and act based upon the thing that I say. Then, yeah. Yeah. As a pastor, you could totally miss this. Sure. If you're not otherwise having conversations that are related to the things you're trying to teach people in. But like, again,

false dichotomy. Do both. Yeah. I think he's looking at like a Rob Bell. Let's have a conversation about hell. Is it even real? Is it even there? Aren't we all really going to heaven? Come on, let's have a talk. As opposed to here's what the scripture says in teaching. Yeah. I I yeah. I I think the I mean, are are we just getting down to the brass tacks that like I mean, he he wants to talk about the veracity of scripture of whether or whether the Bible can be trusted. Like Yeah. Because I mean, like I said, my my first glance through even all this list, I'm like, yeah, I could see like even conversation over what was the first one? What was conversation over something? Church over community, Orthodox over love, certainty over wonder, teaching over conversation. Yeah. Teaching over conversation. Like, if if if I were just read that and not had any background on the guy, I'd be like, yeah. Look, you can't get all your work done sermonizing people. Right? Like Sure. They're gonna wanna sit down and have some coffee with you and go through some questions. I think that's fine. And I think you should totally do that. You're right. Yeah. We can't do that. But like if if the goal

if his intention is to say, well, the god of the universe has spoken, but I should listen to the opinions that could differ from the god of the universe from these other non gods. And give them equal standing. And give them equal standing. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, that's a that's a mistake. Right? Like, that's the the center of the of humanity's downfall is the pride in believing that like merely because you thought it, it is now true. Mhmm. Or it is now a correct perspective. And like, God's the great he's he's the great equalizer. Right? He says, yeah, I understand how you could feel that way. This is where the grace and and compassion of God show up and he goes, I understand how you could feel that way. I'm just telling you it's not right. Right? Like that's not correct. This is the correct way to look at it. And even though that hell conversation is a great one, right? Because like everyone that I've ever talked to, they want to ask me questions like how could God send people to hell? I go, He doesn't do that. He doesn't send anybody anywhere. Mhmm. He offered you to come with him and you said no. That's it. That's what the that's the truth. Right? And that's the part that you're missing. And so like, you know, coming from a deconstruction, it depends. That deconstruction word covers a lot of ground, right, for a lot of people. Yeah. Even people that are just questioning their faith on a on a a regular. Right? Like just a day shows up and you're like, do I actually believe this thing? I've literally structured my whole life around this. I raised my kids this way. Right. Know, I spend most of my time doing this. Do I believe this thing? Right? And then they're like, all of a sudden this is some kind of mini deconstruction and it it is not. It's you just relooking at the world, closing your eyes, open it back up and again go, yes. Okay. Yeah. This was correct. And so like, if if they'd call it that

and just it would just be a regular thing. But instead, it's a built up dramatized version of, I just wanna make sure that this thing is true. I'm telling everybody. Right? My reputation, like the the what people perceive of me is all based on this stuff being true. Do I have the concern and the integrity to make sure that yes?

And and most of the time, what they really start to ignore is like they just got real short memories. Right? You forgot all the things that God did. You forgot all the not only the historical versions of the things that God did, but the things he did in your life that you prayed for and God showed up and you knew it and you knew God shut up. And all of a sudden, you got a real short memory and you don't remember that anymore. And then you go, I don't know about all this. Yeah. Mhmm. So I that's that's probably where that's coming from. On the on the whole, like what the man said, yeah. I think we could learn from it and make sure that that is not the case. Although, you know, the the the things are starting to connect. Right? Like teaching over conversation, certainty over wonder, like and I think this gets to some of what Dan was talking about, is that is that it it kind of proposes that you can't if if to teach something, you have to believe it's true, and that there's a level of certainty to otherwise tell people that this is what you should believe or understand. And so, like,

you do gotta be careful that, like, the theme to some of this stuff is an introduction of nebulousness where it may not actually exist. Like, can we can we make this thing squidgy so that we don't have to deal with some sort of firm reality? Because it leaves a lot of room for people then to kind of what what creates a it's so interesting because like what a lot of the a lot of the drive to some of this is to say, look, this is how you broaden a community. Like, stop drawing firm lines with of which people are in and out. Mhmm. So then your community gets bigger. Except the interesting part is is that the more that happens, the more you do have a larger community who is not defined by anything. They're not a community. They're just a bunch of people standing around. They don't actually share a set of beliefs. Right. Can we agree that you think a thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree to think this thing, and I agree to this thing, and there's not a right or to that or wrong, and like we're all big and happy. Like, you're big and you're happy, but you're not a community. You're not actually centered around a particular thing to believe. And I do think there is value with that as long as you believe and follow the right types of things. It is a it is an environment which is, people naturally kind of pull to,

and you're almost you're almost tearing it down. Now this is not to say, like, think you gotta be careful to say, hey, is it good to have a well defined community if the definition of it is wrong, if we follow the wrong thing? Like, I don't credit Jim Jones for creating a tight knit community. They believe the wrong thing. But like, I I think you do gotta be cautious that and and this is a kind of an evangelism question too, is that like, what do you feel like has to be changed, altered, dumbed down, or made softer so that you're a community or group of people can grow. At the same time, you start to lose the definition of what that community is because it's not well. But this is why scripture is awesome. It's well bound. It's why it solves marital problems, why it solves how you raise your kids. Like, it's a good refinement of like, even where humans disagree, you can go hold the word of the Lord up and go, what's the real thing here? Mhmm.

And so I I I think in order, it is a false sense to say, if I love you, I won't teach you true things. If I love you, I will make sure or if I want community, I will make sure everyone feels comfortable that this community represents them because in effect then, your community is not defined at all. That has it has no boundary. Yeah. And I can think back to the to the to the most growth I've had in my life, and they all stem from feeling very uncomfortable. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. The next one was okay. Supposed mistake

mistake by a pastor in the largest church in the North America. And he says it was a mistake to put polished over real. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I disagree with Yeah. That's fine. Nathaniel? Yeah. I'm in agreeance.

We're in agree. Okay. We agree. Okay. We're just gonna let that one go then. Next, putting explanations over empathy. How could this be right? How could this be a right critique? Sometimes I mean, you know how feelings are. Sometimes facts don't matter. Sometimes how you feel is is all you see. Right? And and that's true of of especially of hurting people. Right? Like they feel hurt

and right now their feelings overtake you. Like I usually use this an example with kids. Like everybody had like that crush in sixth grade and you're like, boy, if they just don't love me back, I just feel like I'm gonna die. And like that was a true feeling for you until it went away when it was obviously ridiculous. Right? And so like, there can be a case made to where like, you're like, look man, it's not that big of a deal. You're in sixth grade. You got your whole life ahead of you. And like, that advice didn't help you back then. It didn't change the way that you felt. Yeah. You know, and so like, yeah, I think there's a time when when empathy the understanding how people got there or the way that they're feeling and and sometimes

feelings are tough. Right? Like and God gave us for them for good and righteous reasons. And sometimes they they they're they're broken like everything else. They get they run away with you. And facts don't matter at that time. And so like, yeah, you can you can miss the forest for the trees on that one, especially when you're talking to hurting people. But once again, at the end of the day, you don't say anything that is not true. You don't promote anything that God doesn't promote and you don't comfort people when they're in the middle of a war zone. You don't say, yes, this is okay place for you to be. You go, look, I know it feels that way right now, but I'm I'm telling you this is where the truth is and if you'd like to follow me, I'd like to show you where it's at. Right? So

yeah. We we could mistake giving instruction and fact when it's time to, you know, emphasize emphasize empathize with folks. Yeah. That's how this could be good advice. Okay. So where can you get it wrong?

Well, have an empathy for somebody, meaning I understand or I can I can join you where you're at in the feeling that you're having, but we we can't stay there? We need to move somewhere else. Joining them and staying there and saying, well, if you feel this way, then we'll change the true thing. We'll make the true thing to match so then you don't feel that way. So there's two ways to get out of feelings. Right? Like you either work your way through it into the good thing or you change the thing that was bad or so now it's good. And now you don't have to worry about it. Right? The second one is no good. I

was with a friend once who did a funeral of a guy who who had no relationship with with God and totally preached him into heaven, celebrated his new home in heaven, how great it is, had everybody stand and applaud, which was kind of weird, but it it was, you know and I remember we got in the car afterwards, he said, yeah, guy's totally in hell. And I thought, dude, I mean, he was empathetic, I guess. Right. He made people feel good, but it also commuted to everybody in that room, hey, just do what this guy did and you're gonna be fine. The preacher said so. Yeah. And yeah. I just wanted to punch him in the face, and I thought that might not be a good idea, so I didn't. But yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think so I think that's that's the rub, is again, it's a false it's a false dichotomy. I should we walk with empathy? Yeah. I mean, people have to trust that you see the world the way like that you you we recognize where they're coming from. And maybe that has to be true for them to then hear

the explanation that you're going to give them. Yeah. But like, a lot of this seems to be posturing towards your the only like, I what what is it what is it prescribed? The right way to help heal or be a good friend, partner, spiritual leader, or anything to someone is to mostly let them govern themselves and tell them that that's fine. Yeah. And I I just find that to be

terrible advice. Just terrible. And like, I I cannot think of a time in my own life where like I I I I needed empathy. I needed someone to go, dude, I totally know what you're I I get where you're coming from. I know why you're feeling this way. Either other everybody else like, other people have these feelings or I've been through it or I've helped people through it. So I totally get it. But listen, you're not believing a true thing. It feels really true right now. But it's not let me tell you, it's not true. From someone who's not going through it, I can tell you. So so Ben, think we need to ask your wife. Let's let's pretend your children have a Snickers bar in front of them and a jar of oats that they put together, however you said that, homemade oats the night before. Homemade oats. Yeah. And and your children are like going, I'm with the Snickers bar. Is your wife gonna have empathy, or is she gonna have an explanation? Oh. I think my wife would have an explanation. Yeah. Okay. She does not empathize because she does not care about the Snickers bar. Even when there's tears? Even when there's tears. So here's the thing, is I know Ben's wife. She's a perfectly love lovely woman and loves people. And so like, we could easily be guilty of this. Yeah. We could easily be guilty of not having any empathy

and and just show up with facts. And like, I I mean, honestly, I've come in here before and I've just been in a sour mood and like I've just I I needed a bit of empathy and this room was not it was not there. You guys were not willing to We don't leave the room very well. Yeah. The room was not it was not gonna have it today and like, I'm I'm the better for it. Right? Like not to say that we can't stop there every once in while. Yeah. Are times. Yeah. I bet that sucks, man. I'm sorry. You do know that you're looking at this thing completely wrong and I'm gonna tell you why. But like, I I I see what you're feeling and that's garbage, you know. And so, yeah, that's where it's good and obviously the bad is changing things to match your feelings. Your feelings can't they just can't be trusted. Go back and look at sixth grade Mike, Dan, Nathaniel, whatever. You you you're not trustworthy. No. No. That's Your feelings run you and you act a fool. Just like that guy at work you're ultra mad at all the time. He turns out he's just not that big of a deal, but you let him sour the whole day. Right? Like Right. Right. Your feelings are taking over and you know it. You're you're you're you're fooling yourself. Yeah. And you can can use empathy to explain. Going back to the funeral thing, I mean, would never stand stand up and preach someone into hell. I mean, that's like the most horrible thing you could possibly do. Yeah. But you can in empathy say, hey, here's how you can make it to heaven, and hopefully people are a little bit receptive right then. Yeah. So yeah. So I wouldn't do one over the other, but but you gotta be skillful at both. Yep. Yep. Agreed. He says he failed because he put answers over questions.

Yeah. The way this could be good is is sometimes we're afraid of people questioning because like they you're afraid like if they get a a nick in the armor that they're like heading out the door or something, you know, they're losing all their faith and really, they just have a question. Right? Like Yeah. In this whole scheme someone asked me this recently, when were the dinosaurs around? Right? And and like, your your mind immediately goes, oh, I see. The biblical narrative can't be trusted. The dinosaurs are blah blah blah. You know, you're like, but the truth is they just wanna know, like Yeah. Did Adam name the dinosaurs? Is that what we're saying? You know? And like, it's just a it's just a question. And so, like, sometimes we're afraid of the questioning thing. And honestly, I I'm not not a 100% it didn't lead to these deconstructionist fellas. Right? Like they ask a couple questions and we clam up and go, we don't even talk about those kind of things. We don't we don't listen to these type of questions because it means that you're you're running away from your faith or you don't trust the veracity of scripture. And like, hold on. You know, don't let's what's the question? You know, let's look at it. It seems like the same one as the the certainty over wonder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same same. Yep. Yep. I agree. I agree. Because questions are questions are good. They're healthy. As long as you realize there actually is generally an answer,

and you're really looking for the answer and not just looking for more questions. Yeah. You know, I this happens to me in my in my day job. It's not it's not wonder or questions. It's it's worry. Like, people have taken like a banner of concern.

Like like they feel like you're an important person if you can look at a situation and find all the things to be worried about. I'm concerned that x y z will happen. I can tell you if someone's close to this, x y z will never happen. You're not even asking the right questions. You're worried about something that's not even remotely true. But like there was there feels like there's a virtue in worry. And you you have the same risk on on questions. Like like we you risk elevating someone who's not actually after a true thing. They're just going, you know, what if God is a narcissist?

I'm like, okay. And well, like, what and like, oh, you're a deep thinker. Like Yeah. It's it's that kind of thing where, like, I wanna prioritize questions over answers. But like people ask, if you're asking questions, not looking for an answer, then you're just looking for attention. Like Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, what are you asking questions for? I I remember really thinking that question through as a as a child. Like, I probably watched the Star Trek episode or something, there were some gods or something, you know, whatever, you know. And I thought, man, what if God's just this big ego? You know?

And I kinda I I actually it was it was an honest question. Yep. Yep. I was reasoning through. I was like, no. I think he's God. Yeah. You know, I think I think I'm good. I think I think we're alright. And I think a lot of like, especially this approach where people have questions and stuff, like, you're borrowing from a couple biblical principles, but like, you're looking for people of peace here. Right? Like like if we're peaceably asking and we're peaceably have questions, then we will peaceably answer. Right? Like if if we're if we're pearls before swine here and you're just looking to cause trouble and make a scene, then yeah. Don't we don't have a whole lot of time for that. We'll wait till the Holy Spirit stirs you up and then comes back as a peaceable person, and then we'll talk about it. Well, and I think this does blend with some of the explanations and empathy. Is that like, if someone says, hey, look, I know some really good actually, I I was thinking about this example today. My wife was telling a story of someone she knows on Facebook who said, we we were late to taking the kids to a few there where they're supposed to be today. What? And in fact, we made a couple of the kids super late just so we could make one of the kids super early, because otherwise, everyone's gonna be late. It's not okay. We're gonna give somebody's gonna win today.

And as part of the explanation, my wife was saying, hey, you know, sometimes, like, be careful about being hypercritical of, like, delays. Like, you never know that there might be a purpose for it. And so one of the examples she gave, she saw a friend of ours on Facebook said they were they were coming home a couple days ago and, you know, ended up like had the car break down and they got detoured and ended up like going two hours out of their way with a and got wrong direction with a, like, a a dad or a husband who never goes the wrong direction.

And so, like, a bunch of weird stuff that happened, but, like, had they not been delayed, they would have been, like, right like, right in the path of the storms and tornadoes and stuff. And so they're like, okay, yeah. I don't know. Is it a coincidence? Is it the God moment? Who knows? And like what was going through my mind was is that like, I mean, that would be a great story unless you're a person whose house got blown up by the tornado. Right. And then you're like, oh, I see God stepped in for this person, and here I am. Right. And then so so like, if someone were to if a reasonable question for someone to ask is like, why? Like, what is the why behind all this? If if our reaction is to provide

some sort of, like, defense of God type of answer, as opposed to, like like, going back to the previous one, having some empathy and embracing the question, like, I I I get that. I I get that that we have to be careful here because like the reality of a fallen world, a god who we do not fully understand, but who we trust. Those are those are right answers,

but but they're not the right that doesn't meet someone in their moment. In the moment, they're trying to process something that terrible that has happened, and now they've been presented with a comparison between someone who was saved from terribleness versus them in the middle of it. And like, that's a that's a human, like, sap of a question, and it's a great one. And like, I think to meet someone in that question and mourn with them and lament with them as opposed to say, you don't need to feel that way because we know that God is good. You missed something

in there. Because I think I think God weeps in that situation too. And so I I think like, if there's a theme in the few of those that I think I think is true, I think you can learn from some of those and take those in well without otherwise saying, these are answerable, but don't don't ignore the person or their situation or the what they're thinking of or feeling while they're asking it. Next one. And I I don't know. What what do think, Mike? We're gonna do you wanna do all 25 of these this week? Pick up the okay. No. Yeah. Let's just cut it. Yeah. Oh, a couple couple more. Okay. So pastor of the largest church in North America, 25 mistakes he made. We've gone through a few. Here's the next one. Putting membership over friendship.

I don't know. I don't understand this problem. I I I think it's the same one as the church over community. Okay. It's it's I'm I'm more concerned over the ins and and not the outs. Yeah. I'm more yeah. And so that yeah. Agree. It's community thing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really care about membership. I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's those are numbers on a board. Yeah. Which goes to I think a different one he said. Okay. Next one was putting failure by putting prayer over action. No. I no. I think I disagree with this one. I think if you could say putting less action over more action, that I can get on board with.

And if you're yeah. Once again, it's it's it's like the it's it's like your friends who only give you one option. You know, they're like, either you're gonna pray or you're gonna act. Yeah. And either either you're gonna let God handle this or you're gonna get in the middle of it. Or you pray and then God says, yeah, I want you to get in the middle of it. And so, yeah, we don't see those two as separate. Yeah. And you should read Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire. There you go. I was gonna say if the if you have a sixty forty situation,

I would put 60 to the prayer Yeah. And 40 to the action. Yeah. Every time. Yeah. I mean, prayer is action. Yeah. Right. Like, it's it's it's it's asking God for God's special focus and attention on a particular situation and to cause the feet to move that should move. Yeah. Right. I mean, his prescription is is that like, it doesn't matter what the situation, any action at all would be helpful. And you know that's a lie. How many times you've seen people go in there and do an action, you're like, that wasn't helpful at all, man. That's usually half our problem. Church is out there doing all kinds of action. That's right. And it's all dumb. We're cleaning up all kinds of cowboys in there. Know I'm saying? Like, if you'd just shut your mouth and prayed for a minute and then let God direct the action, we'd have been a lot better shape. Yeah. Like you gotta poke the donkey with a needle in its butt and then pray that the Lord calms the donkey. Lord, send it on its way and bless it. Yeah. Like, maybe you shouldn't have poked it yet.

So yeah. So so like, I think I think that's a misunderstanding of prayer. I I I think it it presumes, and I think there's a reality to this that when some people say I'm praying, that's all they intend to do. They intend to yak at God about something and then wash their hands of it. And if that is the posture, that's the failure. I know it doesn't rhyme and follow your fun scheme, but you could say the failure we had was yakking at God, not listening for anything return, and then not obeying him with my life. Yeah. And it also tends to it like the the void also has to be true because you're saying God's inaction wasn't the right action. And like sometimes God says, no. Yeah. We're staying out of this. This is not what we're I'm letting this play out because God's got fifteen years on you and looks ahead and goes, nope. Nope. You need stay out of this. And you wanted to bowl in there and be Johnny important. This no. I don't like this one at all.

Yeah. I think this is wrong. Now, I mean, again, in response to if you're not if if you're only mitten if if you're praying the reason I say yakking at God is because I I believe God will move your heart. If you're praying to him, be earnestly seeking God, what should we do here? And you never hear God, like the spirit call you to action, then there's a gap somewhere. Yeah. And so that's the only way of which I think this could happen without but like, there's even things where like, it's just clear just as a as a person who who loves and serves Jesus and who has the holy spirit, like, you just you will start doing you will take action automatically. It takes effort to wash your hands of everything and say, just yak at God and that's it. Yeah. That's premeditated. Based on this guy's principle, Paul would've went to Asia Minor anyway.

Like I already set my mind to it. I'm doing action. Yeah. I'm going into Asia That's right. I'm heading in. Okay. Last one. Mistake is to put services over self care. I don't know what that means. Oh, is he saying that like,

he basically sacrificed him and his family on the altar of the church and basically neglected anything he had going on? Is that what he's getting at? Yeah. May by services, do we think he means like how many services he he taught? I don't know. I brought on more services and as opposed to taking care of myself? Yeah. I mean, this is a legit danger for a pastor. Yeah. That if that's what he's saying. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just feel like you're called into this thing and then, like, you ignore all the other things that God called you into, like taking care of your wife, taking care of your kids, whatever, and being a decent community member. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that could be a huge mistake. We add another service. We can add x number more people to the organization building the business. That's probably because you worried you you screwed up the priorities on the first five. Yeah. He's talking about church services or is he talking about, like, going out and doing service? No. I think he's talking about church services. Going home and and feeding the hungry and instead of taking a day and getting his nails done or whatever. I mean, it's all in proportion. I mean, good night, man. I mean, make a make a decision. You know? It's it's kind of the same problem when we talk about,

you know, giving. Like, if you if you bankrupt yourself giving money away to the poor, you no longer have anything to sustain and give to the poor. If you're a sharp man and know how to take the thing and invest in the stuff and then it generates your $10,000 generates another 100,000 over the next fifty years of which you didn't give away the 100. Aren't we better off than you setting your $10 on fire for your own virtue for this year? Like, I think there's a way well, but here's the thing. If you weren't so worried about putting action over prayer, you wouldn't have gotten to this position. You would have prayed to the Lord and he would and said, hey, we're thinking about firing up this service or I wanna spend the next, like, eight years doing doing the homeless work and avoiding my wife, and the spirit would go, this is a bad idea, man. Yeah. No. No. You know, I don't need another service. That's true. Yeah. Please see previous prayer over action comment. Yeah. I think that's the that's the deal. You're worried about prayer being shallow. I'm worried about you using your prayer shallowly. Yeah. Okay. Mic drop.

Boom. Boom. Yeah. I I hear that guy. Not this is really unfair not knowing the guy. Right? But but like, could could we empathize with him and say, look, this happens to a lot of folks. Like, you you threw everything you had at this at the at the church and what it was doing and the services, either the the full on functional services or going out in the community and thought you had to be at every event and blah blah blah, and your family suffered and your marriage suffered and you were drained and had nothing to give and no reflection time with Jesus and barely got to your Bible because you were so busy blah blah blah. Yeah. We can empathize on how you got there. Now the true thing is you shouldn't have done any of that. Right? You way over cranked on how important you are to this this operation. It's God's church and he's got all kinds of people and he's got you teaching at your place. Teaching and and guiding leaders, and that's your gig. That doesn't mean you have to show up at every soup kitchen, you know. We should FaceTime him next week. Yeah. Let's pipe him in. Yeah, man. We could yeah. Feel like well,

I mean, here's the thing. I feel like we gave it the best shot. We said, like, for every one of these, we said, here's the thing we can agree. Here's the situation of which this critique is valid Yeah. And we should be mindful of it. I guess, like, there just seems to be in some of these, there's an imbalance. There's places where it feels like you are potentially allowing humans to influence things that are only gods to speak to. And there are things of which you are carrying that are gods alone to carry. And so, you know, where where where this where the imbalance is wrong, where we like, again, let's say you you chased as opposed to, you know, making sure that you

were not, like, didn't bring on 10 services to meet a growing human demand. Well, was it God's demand? If it's God's demand, then you should do it and he'll care for you. And you don't need self care. God will care where he sends you. You're gonna be no. It doesn't mean you're not gonna get sick or whatever. Right. But I assume Where he sent you? Once again, I I mean, God's not he just it's it's out of his character. Right? And so like, he'll send you pastors to help you. He'll send you to, you know, people to support the services and and whatever. And like, it just it seems so not saying that it's gonna be ease, you know, that it's gonna be like this super easy transition of whether you're on a boat ride or whatever and everybody else is holding up the weight, but like the the type of of of wear out that I think that you're inferring, like, I I think you brought that's a bring on yourself problem. That just doesn't seem to be God's deal. He created the Sabbath to give you some rest and it didn't sound like you've taken it. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So I I I remember seeing this. When Dan had sent this list over, it was odd because or or coincidental because at the same time, I know I I may have told you guys about this. I joined a

couple Facebook groups related to house churches. And it was right around the time that I saw this list that I also saw a post from a guy. And it it it made me think that, like, there's a common theme in here. The the the general post from the house church guy actually, there's another one today. I'll use that as an example. Dude is from, I I think Ecuador or something. And he said they've just started like a number of house churches, like a high number, because that's where they start them in Ecuador. Like, they're they're poor. There's not a lot of places to fire. So they're firing up like house type communities.

And over time, they've had people like die or move or not be able to sustain, like people who like lead these house churches. And there's like there's people who are like our house church is an example. I believe pastor is still a biblical role, so our house church is actually still led by me. And I think that is a responsibility, a set of responsibilities of which God still has for people.

There are people who are like super duper purist from a house church. In fact, think, Nathaniel, you might have been like yours was kinda like this before. Right? Like where there wasn't like a there wasn't a pastor, like everyone just kinda showed up with whatever was going on that week. It was kinda shared. Yeah. Yeah. And so like community believers and like can't the holy spirit do do through everybody, which I do believe actually. I just think there's also still room and rightful places for kind of responsibilities within organizations and communities. But anyway, so like this guy comes in and he says, you know, can you guys help pray for us? We're trying to figure out what to do with a few of these different house churches and we thought maybe we they could can we find a place for them to meet kinda together? It feels it'll look like more like a traditional he he shouldn't have said traditional church. This is the wrong form to use that kind of language.

But like, I saw it and I thought, yeah, like, what a cool what a cool problem. He's got a whole bunch of house churches fired up. People are are basically, like, before we can organize anything, let's just start. And there's a bunch of people getting together, and then there was a need for a few of them to be come together in a larger community. And he was asking for prayer from these guys. And and the first thing I thought was that's cool. And the second thing I thought, give it five minutes. And there's gonna be some Jack and Apes in here harassing the guy in Ecuador. Some some like relatively privileged dude, probably in North America Yeah. Who's got an opinion on house churches, who thinks that they're they're the glory of the Lord only. It only reveals in church home, and and they're gonna critique this dude. And I did I was right. Seven. Well, I was off by the time. Seven minutes in, here he comes.

And and he's like, brother, I need you to know that in this community, we've we've discerned that you do not need a building. And like this guy put pictures up, and when he says build, he means like a post. Like two or three posts with some grass Yeah. Strewn above it. He's just trying to keep people out of rain. Yeah. And that's it. And I thought, ugh. Like, I would look at the guy in Ecuador, and he's basically saying, you know, we we we fire up church communities in whatever way we can. You find one in a house, let's do it. We don't care. We love them. You could we got people who who need to meet as bit larger groups between two poles and some grass, we're in with it. Whatever. We'll do it. And so and so I'm super excited for this guy, and I sure know this this house church guy shows up in in in this community and did it. And like, the reason I I give you that example is one, I've been irritated as a guy who does house church at that the arrogance in the house church communities, some anyway, which I mean, so the same thing can exist going the other direction. It it goes all around. But like, it was

it it relates to this list because it's another false dichotomy. It presents a situation that says, like, I've got here's the thing that I care about and focus on. Everyone has to do things the way that I do them, otherwise, you suck. You've been sucking. And the George and the Lord has got he's got judgment upon you for the things that you're doing. And like, it is it just it's it's a call to humility. It's there's a level of arrogance that goes, the things that I've touched and done and learned are righteous for everyone in all situations.

Like that's stupid. That's a stupid thing to think. It's an arrogant thing to think. And so, like, are there people on the other side of some of these critiques from from Jim Palmer? Yes. Are there people are there churches that have at times focused on ins and left everyone else out and said, look, we just wanna build our internal brand.

And we don't mind borrowing because like most of the time, like the larger churches, you're you're taking from other churches. Like sometimes you're you're you're growing the communities around you, but a lot of times you're just you're just harvesting from other churches around you and you serve better stuff. And your preaching might be better or something like that. But like it's inter it's it's you're changing Christians around. And so like, are there people on the other side of these? Yes. But like, I just cannot emphasize enough that the world is always more complicated than you're representing, especially if you've said something clever. Said something quippy and clever, you've not covered the depth of something. I promise you. And like, there's an arrogance at looking everybody's situation and say, God has worked through so many people in so many ways that your particular brand of Oscar Meyer ain't a sausage for everybody. There's got to be room for God to to to distribute flavors and to do things in different ways and to meet different people in whatever their needs are. And if you cannot understand that, it's best that you keep your mouth shut until the Lord tells you it's okay to speak. And I'd wait for that to be very clear. He discerned it, Ben. He said on the Facebook. They have discerned it. He said we as a group has discerned it. Now here's the thing, he didn't ask me.

We didn't come together communally. I was driving at the time. I shouldn't have been I was at a stoplight. I should have been checking my phone, and so I didn't wanna I didn't I didn't put myself a bigger risk. But I should have gone back and say just just for clarity, I've not discerned the thing that you're saying. Pray for the man that he can put a hut together. Right. And I tell you this. I and I say pray for the man that he hears from the spirit, and that he does what the spirit tells him, not what you tell him. And so if the spirit says it's okay to fire up a hut and put three house churches together, then bless it. Yeah. Bless it all day. I discerned you only think about yourself, brother.

Oh, man. These are cap hey, these guys are capital letter type people. They're the people who write write the things and then every once in while there's like an all caps phrase and you're like, unless it's scripture, you should not bring that much attention to your own thoughts. No. No. Alright. Hey, you're listening to that. Do you use emojis too? No. Oh, no. Like the hand clap? No. No. None of that. None of that goes on. No memes. They probably don't do memes either. No. They don't do the memes? No. You can tell that this guy like, these things that get posted were pre typed out in Notepad. Like, not Microsoft Word, not his personal blog post. He's typed them out in some sort of rudimentary word processing software and then pasted it into Facebook, because he thought of this thing eighteen years ago, a notepad was all that was available. Yeah. He's been telling everybody He's got it ready to burn. I bet he has a blog though. Yeah. Yeah. I guarantee it. That he handprints and mails people. We just we used to call it a newsletter. He started calling it a blog, still not understanding what the difference is.

These guys Okay. You ready? The blog. We're gonna go through two rounds of of Bibl trivia Yeah. Where the trivia is not trivial. And then we're gonna do Dear Lord from the Path. I love it. I'm ready. K. Ready? We'll start with Ben this time. False. Ben, your choices are OT, history and geography, prophets of prophecy, names, letters, numbers, sequence, New Testament, wisdom. I'm gonna try the wisdom. Wisdom.

Which book states that nothing can separate us from the love of Jesus Christ? Ephesians. No. Ben. James. No. Ben. Chapter eight.

Romans? Romans is correct. You said wisdom. Yeah. Maybe throws you off, the wisdom. Romans isn't wisdom literature. Jesus is wisdom literature. Maybe you should get more of those Bible tabbies like we were talking about. God. Maybe you can read more than one book at a time. Nothing

nothing can separate you from the depth like like that's Romans eight. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Don't worry. We'll just farm the teaching out to everybody in the room. I got Paul. Let's just have a conversation. Dan, you're gonna get Old Testament. I'm full of words. Anything you give me. Prophets and prophecy. Alright. Prophets and prophecy to Dan. In what two books of the Bible is the word seal used to describe God's protection of remnant of the Jews? Of the remnant of the Jews. The word seal. Seal. Like, we're gonna I mean, when I call it

Ezekiel. I would say Ezekiel is probably one of them. Seals. Come on, Dan. It's not Revelation, is it? It is Revelation. That was too easy. I like, I can't go to the easy one first. Ezekiel and Revelation. Okay.

I was like, go through all the interpretations of Revelation in my head going, would someone call that the people that Nathaniel. Yes. You're getting history and geography. Oh, no. Who succeeded Eli as high priest of Israel? Come on. Everybody knows this. Let me think. Eli. Eli. I don't know.

Ben. No. It was not that of his kid. Remember his kids were knuckleheads. Right? So Samuel. Samuel's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Samuel's the right answer. Back around the room. Starting with Dan. Oh. Dan. Yes. Me. Let's see. Okay. What is it written in English? What's the problem with this card? Well, I'm trying to give It's cute, James. Gotta read it a couple times. No. I just wanna make sure I'm not giving Dan too easy of a one. Hey. Some of these are pretty easy.

Okay. Dan, history and geography. Which of the following is closest to Jerusalem? Bethlehem, Bethany, Emmaus, or Jericho? Bethany. No. Bethlehem. Oh. Bethlehem is correct.

One point to point to Hand geography. I only do hand geography because we were at a house church and I don't have maps or screens, and so I just do have fists and stuff. And like, I have a rough idea how close things are to Jerusalem. Ben, you're gonna get letters, numbers, and sequence. Come on. Use your hand. Spell Nathaniel, disciple of Jesus.

N a t h a n I e l. No, dummy. I a l. No. No I. Nathanael? There's no I in it. N a t h a n a e l. Nathanael. Nathanael. You you didn't

say it. Right? N a t h a n a e l. It's Nathanael. No. It isn't. Say you gotta say it how they would say it. Nathanael. Wait. I mean, this is a that's a crude English way of putting it. If you would've said it the way it was supposed to, I'd have gotten it. Dan, you're on Prophets and Prophecy. Which of the following no. Which two consecutive chapters of Ezekiel prophecy a war of the last days in which Israel defeats Magog or Russia? Or Russia. Or Russia.

Two chapters in Ezekiel. In Ezekiel. How many chapters? I'm gonna say thirty four and thirty five. Not a bad guess. Anybody else want I was gonna say 38. 38. 39. 38. Nine. Yeah. 38. Swallowed my first gut. 38. Magog is destroyed. 38, 39. I can't remember. It went that far. Okay. Nathaniel, wisdom. Wisdom.

In Proverbs twenty five twenty five, to what does Solomon compare cold waters to a thirsty soul? In the Psalm twenty five twenty five. Wisdom to the wisdom to the the mind. Wisdom to the mind. I didn't even think there could be an answer any more wrong than that one. That's a no.

Chicken noodle soup, he says. Dan. What? Oh, yeah. Solomon compares cold waters to a thirsty soul is like what? Cold water to a thirsty soul. It's not wisdom to the mind. Cold water is like a kind answer to angry word or something. There's room over by Nathaniel.

Vin, would you like to weigh your guess? Is it the word of the Lord? No. Good news from a far country. That's what I said. I said, yeah. It's like cold waters to a third Good answers. Yeah. It's the word. Okay. One more round, and then we're going on to Dear Life from the Past. Here we go. Oh. Nathaniel. Yes, sir. What did Hannah and Pananaya have in common?

They were widows. Both were wives of Ilkinaw. Oh, dang. Obviously. There you go. Wait. Hold on. Point of clarification. Is Elkanah dead? Because then Nathaniel might have some. I have one. I can't recall first Samuel chapter one verses one I don't see him in the room. I think he's dead, Nathaniel. 10 points to Nathaniel. Hot dog. Help to know his death for your victory. Ben.

Yep. What what king said to Paul, almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian? It's not is Agrippa? It is Agrippa. Yes. Agrippa is the correct answer. Dan. Yes. Which book begins with the words, now David was old and stricken in years?

Second Samuel. The party favorite, first Kings. First Kings. First Kings. I don't if you remember. I was like Seems like it should be second Kings. Yeah. Was hoping for second I was gonna say second Kings. Yeah. Argue with the cards, fellas. I'm telling you, it's first Kings. Two Kings, Russia. What'd I say? To Magog. David was old in in in your on in years. I mean, but what answer to that? What did I say? You said Samuel. This okay.

Because I was at least thinking Chronicles, but it was still wrong. But it was like I think I I could hear myself saying Samuel like, what? There's no rebuttal to be had, Dan. I don't. Was it's still wrong either way, but I was I even said wrong my wrong answer. So Okay. That's double wrong. Dear life from the path. We married and had children very late in life. So our children are by far the youngest in our extended family. When they graduated from high school, we tried to throw a party with many relatives on my partner's side and a small number of mine, but only three people could come. There could have been 50. Oh, yeah. Some Some of my partner's siblings were going away for the weekend. Some had grandchild sports events, and my own sibling was babysitting and therefore could stop in only for a few minutes. Needless to say, we had faithfully attended each and every event in the family up to this point, but no one felt the urge to help us celebrate when it was our turn. Our kids have been ignored now that our siblings' grandkids have arrived.

This is not the only story I could tell like this. I can write a book. Consequently, we've decided that because our kids have been ignored, we will not celebrate the next generation's events. Our relatives seem puzzled that we're not as enthralled with the preschool graduation and first birthdays of their grandkids, but hey, where were they? Funny thing is, they seem to believe my adult children didn't notice they were being ignored. They have little interaction with the quotes loving relatives who snubbed them. Are we wrong to feel this way? Yes. Here's the thing. Kinda petty. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I get it. But I mean, you're super if you're super late to the party and

you started having kids while other people having grandkids, like, you're always gonna be out by beat out by another baby. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's just the rule of the dice. And like, there might have been a lot of good reason to to wait like you did, and that's fantastic. And you should be happy with your own selves, but like, I don't know that I would blame everyone else for being excited about their the growth of their own families in that way and not showing you whatever attention that you think you you deserve. I get it. I get it. But I I I yeah. Think you're gonna have to let that go. And I think and you actually perpetuating in your kids the wrongness that you feel like you've been done. Now you're creating within your children to think that of other people and you're breeding a selfishness in them that's wrong. You're in the wrong. Yeah. I mean, you act like you went to these events because of the future reciprocation

of them showing up to events. And like, you go to events to support kids. That's why you go. And like, yeah, the later people get in life, especially I would say the years between 30 and 50, parents are hard to pin down. They're just kinda busy. Like, it's the most active time for both their their work and their social lives and their kids lives and like, that that people are just busy. And so like, I yeah. You could probably stand and have a little grace for them. Nathaniel, you got any thoughts there? It just seems kinda weird to me. Like, if I put myself in this situation, like this would be like my son having a son. Right? And then my brother's being all mad at me if they were having kids the same time Yeah. My son was. That's right. It's like, I don't even, you know, hang out with my brothers that often. Right. It's like, why don't what what do you want from me? Right. I come around to your kid's, you know, thing. Yeah. And think about I mean, think about what a family tree looks like. By the time you get three layers down, there's like fifteen, seventeen places to go here, you know, and you're like, soccer game for so and so, blah blah blah, and a band concert, blah blah blah. Like, you'd never be at home. Yeah. You know? I mean, I've it's it's nice when your grandparents can come and they can support and whatever. And if you have a fairly contained family, then, you know, it's it's not a huge burden on them. But like, you start to have more than five kids and they start to have grandkids and blah blah blah, you're like, holy cow. I can't get to all these things even if I wanted to. I mean, if all my siblings had, you know, kids and then their kids had kids, it's I mean, it's just too much. There are 85 people in here. Yeah. It's like, I can't be You mean, don't remember what talking names. You're right. Like, what's the new one called? You know? And this one's like two. You're like, what's the boy called? Okay.

The question was, are we wrong to feel this way? Yeah. Secular says, no. You are human. However, more honest communication with these relatives when it was happening might have averted the schism created by their self centered behavior. Your situation is regrettable, but I can't blame your children or you for feeling the way you all do. Yeah. I don't know. If you wanna sit around thinking about yourself all the time, then yeah. I suppose you're going to be upset like this. Yeah. I mean, this it's just toddler behavior. Hey, I'm really upset because people do not give me the attention I deserved, And so I refused to give them gracious attention like I was asking for. Yeah. Get a good one. Yeah. That'll show them. Yeah. Like, I guess who was who was served by this? Whose life is better? Is your life like, if it didn't

if if you didn't care for their attention at all ever, then what are you mad at to begin with? Yeah. And like, if you are mad because you wanted their attention, and your reaction, your way to go about getting it is to then be standoffish to them and not show up to any of their because like, I mean, you want you want their attention, they'll say hi to you when you show up to their thing. Yeah. I'm just so like, I I I don't understand how you won here. Who like, who benefited from this? Besides, you feel a little bit self righteous. But like, that's the that's that's like the that's the joker of the emotional spectrum is the self righteousness. It shows up. It does a little dance. It feels like, oh, I impressed the king, and then it goes and cries in the corner. That's what you did. Congratulations. Yeah. You suck. I hate no. Yeah. Being being angry being angry at somebody that's angry with you is probably the most the biggest waste of time of your whole life. Right? If people are gonna be angry with you and you've sussed it out and they're just angry, then you go, well, you can be angry by yourself. Right? I'm just I'm not gonna join in this thing. So Alright. Just live your life. Just live on. Dear life from the path. My boyfriend has this bad habit when we meet new people. It can range from a neighbor to someone like our landlord. During the course of a conversation, he'll lie and exaggerate certain facts about his life, our life, or something more sensitive such as our financial situation, which I might add is not good.

It bothers me because I'm an honest person who finds no reason to lie to people I meet. If it's oh. If it's a subject sorry. If it's a subject I don't wanna discuss, I keep my mouth shut. An example, he told our neighbors we would consider buying the house we currently rent, but that our mortgage company would need to approve us for 40,000 more dollars. Truth is, we can't get approved for any mortgage because our debt is too high. In the moment, it's hard for me to determine if I should play along casually or firmly, redirect the conversation, or correct him. I don't like leading people to believe something that isn't true. He has lied to me about some serious matters in the past. I'm sure his purpose isn't malicious, but it makes me uncomfortable. If I try to address it with him, he blows me off like it's not a problem. How should I handle these situations in the future? It makes it hard to make new friends when we're not being honest from the start. Alright. I'm gonna tell you something. Sometimes

people when they get on a roll, they just start embellishing the story. They didn't like get up in the morning and go, hey, man, I'm a pull the wool over everybody's eyes and be this or whatever. But sometimes you get the feel of the room, the lay of the land, and you're like, I'm on top. Then you just and you just keep on rolling. Right? And then like you think back about it later, you're like, man, I I totally embellished part of that story. That did not happen at all. Or I took this thing that was kinda small and stretched it out and made it it seemed like it was more covered more ground than it really did. Yeah. That doesn't feel like what he's doing. He might I these these it feels like he's he's just a self conscious fella. And instead of telling people about the real him, like and this happens to people who are really self conscious, they tend to talk about inappropriate things because they will have the upper hand because you won't say anything. Right? And so they're like, I'm willing to spill and share this. They're they tend to be over sharers,

especially about sensitive information, and then they tend to straight up tell a lie if they have to to try to maintain some type of I'm awesomeness. Mhmm. And so really what you're looking at is a liar that extends from he's just a real self conscious fella. He's he's he's got some some low thoughts of himself because I'm sure he doesn't lie in the negative. Right? He never he never dumbs down what you got going on. He always That was a real interesting lie, like, to to act like, oh, yeah, we might buy. We just need the bank to give us an extra 40 k on the loan. Like, he didn't presume to like that he's so well off that he doesn't need a loan. Like, it's a weird it's a weird lie. He's not postured way he's not postured way above his station. He just went a little bit above his station. See, and he thinks even so little of himself that he can't fire that high. Right? He's like, they will believe that the bank won't needs to loan me another 40 k. They won't believe, you know, that like that like Right. I got money right now. Got it on the finger. Right. Right. So once again, I I mean, it's really unfair to judge this whole man by these little bits of information you give him, but I'm pretty sure he's just he's just running low on on what he thinks of himself and what other people think of him. I mean He's lying to his to to to his girlfriend though. That doesn't seem like a a good situation. So what says is he's like he's lied to me in the past. It'd be really interesting to know what he lied about. She said she said major things. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I'd say he's untrustworthy and she needs out. We just get rid of him. She'll never trust him ever. How will he gain trust? Yeah. Unless he's like quits lying and just tells people, you know and it seems like he's lying to people that he just meets, at least from what she says. Like, hey, Chuck, I just met you, but I'm $40,000

in debt. You think I just want you to know that. You think people are more apt to tell lies to complete strangers than they are to people that know them? Well, yeah. Completely strangers are less likely to know that it's a lie. People that you lie to someone know you, they go, dude, there's no way. Yeah. You ain't got no 40 k. You can't you barely put gas in that rice burner you put around in. Yeah. Actually, so I would I I tend to sympathize with Dan here. I I think it's I would because because like even if the thing you're saying is true, Mike, that he

everyone lies for a reason. Everyone's trying to posture above where they're at because they're protecting what someone would think about them. It's a normal human emotion, but it's not an acceptable thing to do. And so like, he he has to stop. He can't lie. He can't go around lying like that. And so if he's not prepared to do that, regardless if it feels like it's coming from a place of of human protection, then he's not a trustworthy individual. Okay. I'm gonna tell you a story because I told a lie today. And now I'm trying to think through it whether it was unfortunate. So I I pulled into the gas station. Right? I was about ready to go in and grab a sandwich or something. And this guy in a fairly new newer car pulls up to me, super tinted windows. I look over out of my driver's side and I can't really see him because his windows are tinted. He rolls the window down and then looks at me and gives me the, hey, roll your window down. Right? I'm like, what? I'm not I was on the phone with somebody at the time. So I roll my window down, and I look at him, and he goes, hey, man. Do you have a couple dollars? I'm just getting off work, I can really use some gas in my car. And I said, no.

No. I don't. Now the reason I said no to this man is one, he's driving a pretty nice car. Two, it's 08:30 in the morning. And three, he didn't get out of his car to come talk to me. He, like, made me roll down the window as if it was inconvenient for him to come and ask me for money. And like like all these things lined up in my head and I go, no. No. The truth is, I definitely did have money. Yeah. And I could have given him put some gas in his car. But I just flat out said no based on his actions. Like all of them none of them I I've met people that need money. This none of these are are bells that ring me, you know. And so I lied. I said no. I'm sorry. I don't have any money for that. Now the truth is is I did have money for that. I just wasn't willing to give it to So does that count like, does this guy if I because I told a lie that if if the thing I said wasn't true, but I succinctly covered up the fact that I was not gonna give the man the money. So is that the the type of lying that you would say he's untrustworthy? That's that's that's different. I I think I mean, not that it's good or healthy, but it's still he knew he had money. I mean Yeah. And of course he did. Yeah. I I mean, it it was just you don't have time. Neither of you have time to sit through a whole explanation of why I'm not gonna give you money. It's just like, no. Right. I'm out. You wanna know whether you're getting it. I'm telling you no. That's all you really You're not want trying to impress him. He's not unimpressed or unimpressed unimpressed know, it's it's not you're not trying to hide anything. It's just like, no. Yeah. No. Yeah. I lied to the I lied to the cashier at the Casey's today when I bought that coffee. They said, look, hey, do you are you part of the Casey's rewards? I am part of the Casey's rewards. But I said no, because I didn't wanna take the time to put it in there. I was I needed to get ahead of it. And so I lied to him and I said I I said it wasn't. And I'm usually careful. I'm like, nah. And then I make some sort of weird noise afterwards. Yeah. That feels like less of a lie. But either way, I have the rewards program. So so like, without without saying, like, the his previous lie is really what's up for debate here. Because like, I mean, even in conversations where people like, you know, if you're talking to somebody you just met and they're you know they're a mortgage broker and they're like, blah blah blah, what's your blah blah blah on your on your interest rate or what? How'd you do about and you're like, oh, man, I don't wanna be involved in this. I'm like, it's it's pretty good. It's it's better than it's going right now. I got a pretty sweet deal on it, you know. And you're like, I don't know. I just don't wanna talk about this, you know. And so you tell a kind of a lie and you're like, look, let's just get to the end of this thing. You wanna try to sell me a mortgage and I don't wanna talk about this right now. So I'm gonna tell you a thing so you go away. So is it at all possible that the man is is doing that and not this malicious

It didn't sound like it. He had some pretty specific I mean, like, I'm trying to impress people. I'm trying to tell a story about myself. It I mean, for me, it less concerns me where he's just kinda shooting the breeze with, you know, neighbor Bob than it is him saying to his girlfriend, hey, you know I don't have a gambling problem, and then going to the riverboat. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I hear I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Because what happens later on is she's wondering, hey, you cheating on me? Oh, no. Of course not. No. Those aren't my tonsils in the jar next to the bed stand. I mean, you lived to me when I was married. Why wouldn't you do the same with somebody else? Yeah. He kept his tonsils, Nathaniel, but he told his girlfriend that that's not really what it is. So so our our advice is, look, look, he just can't be trusted. It's time to cut ties with this man. Okay. Secular says, your boyfriend's difficulty with the truth is a huge red flag. He dismisses your concerns because they are not important to him just as the truth is not important to him. I am relieved you described him as your boyfriend and not your husband. What he is doing will have an impact on your future financially and socially when folks start to recognize he's a phony.

My advice to you is to end this romance before your own credibility suffers. Yeah. I I would I I do wanna be cautious there though, is that like, I there people who even habitual liars, they're they're more they're more nuanced. It's more it's more great than that. Like, people don't just I mean, some people lie just because they think it's fun. But like, for the most part, what Mike said is salient. Like, people do people do lie

to cover up inadequacies inadequacies in themselves. They lie to impress people because they want people to like them and they're concerned that, like, people will not like them for their own. They lie because they see a moment and opportunity to otherwise ingratiate themselves with someone else. And so, like, it's now just because it's not mustache twisting doesn't mean they're not responsible for it. They're still accountable for it. But, like, I I would be cautious to to paint them they're not cartoonish. People generally lie for for, like, reasons that are of human protection that are worth praying for, that are sometimes worth like what the question you're asking isn't

is what sort is more so around, is it my is this a relationship that I'm I'm supposed to be in to help try to repair? Yeah. Right. It's the That's the question. It's the empathetic thing and pointing to the truth. Right? Like, you can understand maybe how the guy got here, why he acts the way he acts, and you but you can't agree with it. You you need to say, look, we need to point you to something true and like you you just you gotta stop this. Yeah. And it could be that the relationship you're in, like, you're the per you're the person that helps them to get better. You're the person that helps them call them to write stuff and like good women change crappy men all the time. As a as a lady or vice versa could be true, you need to pray and Less likely. Yeah. Less likely. And discern whether it is your this is relationship you're supposed to stay in. It is that serious that, like, I would contemplate and and pray on whether it's a relationship you're supposed to stay in.

But like, again, I I just wouldn't I wouldn't say it's that guy's a bastard forever and no one ever go near him. I think that's too harsh. Right. Okay. Last one. Ready? This one's a quickie. Denied from the path. A few years ago, I bought my mother-in-law a nine by 13 inch pan with a lid, a popular name brand. While I was visiting her, she mentioned that she needed a new lid for her pan. When I asked her what happened to the original lid, she told me it had gotten warped. My sister-in-law then piped up and said it was her fault because she had it close to the hot oven and it had melted. Mhmm. I think my sister-in-law should replace the lid, but she's refusing. My mother-in-law expects me to do it. Please help me figure this out. My husband thinks we should just replace it, but I honestly think his sister should. What?

Here's the the same advice we always give is have to stick here. Right? You give gifts because you want to, and once the gift has left you, you're done. You're done with it. Right? Like, we gave you a gift. However, in your care, it got warped. You should purchase a new lid for it. Now, if like your mother-in-law is financially not capable of buying the lid or whatever, she needs some help figuring out where you got it from, I mean, just order it off Amazon and cover the bill. It's like $67. Let's say it's $30 for the lid. Who knows? This seems like a really a bunch of people who are folding their arms for no reason in a room. Yeah. End the drama. Just get it.

Yeah. I would be happy to replace that lid for you. I know where I got it. I'll get one coming. Yeah. Sorry, your lid isn't working. Here's the deal. Like, if the neck if if it comes up warped again, you can wash your hands of it very very easily. You're like, hey, I'm not a lid factory. I I replaced this one. But like, if you don't know how to use lids, this is back on you. Like, because at some point, they they already look ridiculous, but for some reason, they're not admitting to such a thing. There's no way that it does not very clear by the second one. So like, you buy the first one even if don't think of it as, hey, I'm buying on the lid. Say, I'm buying firm ground for the next time this comes up. Yeah. I now I know for sure. I mean, let's let's be honest here. It's a plastic lid. Right? It does nothing gets melts next to a hot oven that's made out of cast iron or metal. It is a plastic lid, and it can't cost more than $6. Let's pick it up. Yeah. Plus you get you get to purchase some good clean ribbon fun of your sister-in-law. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure I'll buy I'll buy this next to this one. Yeah. Keep it away from Melty Mcmelterson over there. I've done this multiple times. Like, I've been willing to give money or buy or rebuy something into what is a fair what is it feels like a dicey situation to me just so I know the next time the same request comes up that, like, I've got firm ground. I can look back and say, two months ago, I I helped with this thing. There's no reason this need should exist anymore. I'm out. And I can do it with all confidence. Yeah. So like, I I I especially something that's relatively cheap, like I'm totally in, not because I think I should have to or that I completely trust what people are doing with things that I'm purchasing, but like it just it helps make it way easier to make this decision next time and that's worth $5, $10. Yeah. True. A little peace of mind. Yep. Okay. Secular's final advice. You may honestly think that your sister-in-law should replace the lid she ruined, an opinion with which I concur by the way, but it ain't gonna happen. So keep peace in the family by ordering a new one for your mother-in-law and try to smile when you do it even if it's more like a grimace. Yep. Shalom is $5 at the at the Amazon. Just do it. Yeah. Alright. Hey, you've been listening to live for The Path. We do very much appreciate you hanging out with us on the show. A couple things I wanna remind you of. One, if you got feedback for us and you wanna leave it verbally or via the text, you can do so on the Bob Eisenhower complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085.

(515) 517-0085. That's call or text on the Bob Eisenlauer complaint line of which we expect to receive the complaints. But if you do have something nice to say, you're free to do so on that line as well. We'd love to hear from you. Also Especially if you're in the band Ren Collective. Yeah. Just give us a call. We'd love to talk to you. Yeah. That's right. Just Or to text. Yeah. You can send us a text too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We can do that. Also, there was something else I had. What was it? Hey, the merchant there's merch out there. Go to lifefromthepath.org.

Use the the link at the top of the page. Go to the shop. Mike Mike, are you happy with the goods? Yeah. I got two shirts. I got two Life from the Path shirts for whatever recent oh, Valentine's Day. Yeah. I got a I got a Mike Machovan shirt. I love it. I wear it all the time. And then I got a a thrift store pre shirt which I both which I like. Yeah. Yeah. They're I think I think they're comfy. I found I found the comfy shirts. And so, yeah, go out and pay just pick some up for your for your favorite cousin or dog breeder or whatever close relationships you have. You should pick that Life From The Past stuff. We make a pretty penny, and I do mean a penny. But we do make just a hair on it, and it helps us keep us in decaf coffee pods around here. So appreciate that. I think that's all we got going on this week. So we're we'll hit you up the the next show. We'll pick up the back half of that top 25 list, And you can always use our like that complaint line if you got something you need advice on or just something you want to talk about, we'd be glad to do it. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Past.