Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper, you are live in the back. And you were listening to live from the Path recording from the Pathway Studios here at Johnston Proper, which seems more redundant now that I said the opening at the same time. Like, I it it felt like I had just gotten information.

Okay. That's my fault. We get some technical problems in here, and so, Pants does this much better than I do, but, we're making due for today. Bring back the pants. What did say? Bring back the pants. Bring back the pants. Okay. I can see Ben. Yeah. Not enough pants. Yeah. I totally yeah. I feel that. Dan, do you feel that? I'm I'm feeling I'm feeling Okay. I'm feeling creeped out right now too because, like, there's this different computer here, and there's a poster of a guy playing a guitar on our wall. And I keep looking, and it's reflecting off the computer, and it's looking right at me. Oh. I keep looking at him thinking, who is oh, okay. That's Like a dude staring at you. There's a dude staring at me like, stop it. Oh, he's not real. Yeah. I could see that. I could see that I could wig a guy out. Alright.

Here here's what we got going on the show this evening. Hold on. Nathaniel, would you try your mic for me real quick? Check. Check. Okay. Good. We're good. Alright. See if don't push. So here here's what

I I had I don't even wanna talk about this, but think we're gonna talk Has anybody been following the the Hillsong stuff this week? No. Not not really. I just know their stuff went down. Didn't it was, like, official now? Or Yeah. I've read stuff in the past. But Yeah. So this is from the Christian Post. Hillsong founder Brian Houston was drunk inside a woman's hotel room for forty minutes,

church reveals. This is oddly specific thing that happened. Drunk for forty minutes? Yeah. Where they kept testing him to see, like, levels or something? What happened? It's weird. It's such a so specific thing that they've said. At forty two minutes, he was fine. He was yeah. So here's what it says. Hillsong Church founder Brian Houston violated the church's code of conduct by entering the hotel room of an unidentified woman for forty minutes while under the influence of alcohol and prescription drugs during the church's annual conference in 2019. In a statement outlining investigations into two complaints against Houston's behavior in the last ten years, the Global Evangelical Church Network also said that its global senior pastor exchanged an inappropriate text message with a staffer in 2013, resulting in her resigning shortly after. Like, one?

One text message? This this guy's out of control. I mean, already, I'm like, oh, wait a minute. It's his own church conference. So there's church people everywhere. Right? Right. They're all there, and he's gonna just slide into someone's room and not be noticed when he's, like, the most visible guy in the entire church. Yeah. What a dummy. It's like and and and he's that means he's and he was drinking, like, under the influence of alcohol and prescription drugs. Like, why are you drinking at the church conference? Yeah. That that's someone who either wants to be caught

or is so Arrogant. Arrogant that they think they can't be. Yeah. There's nothing they can't do wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense to me. Okay. Wow. But I just, let's see. In a recent, recording of a meeting with 800 staffers of the global mega mega church, Hillsong interim global pastor, Phil Dooley said Houston doesn't recall having sex with the identified woman in the hotel This is the worst

PR effort that I've ever seen. Except for the drugs and alcohol. I can't remember if we had sex. Yeah. Like, I know he was in there for forty minutes specifically, but I have no idea whether something odd went on in there.

Houston reportedly met the woman who was not a member of Hillsong in the foyer of the Pullman Hotel where several Hillsong officials were drinking. Classic. It was after one of the conference nights, and he was drinking with the group. Later that evening, he went to go to his room, didn't have his room key, ended up knocking on the door of this woman's room, and she opened the door and he went into her room. Dooley said the church couldn't conclusively say what happened. This woman has not said if there was any sexual activity. What made like, did you ask? I don't understand this. This is really bad.

Okay. Let's separate two problems. Well, this is terrible. This is an abuse of of of power. It's an arrogant fool. Lee leading one of the, like, I mean, the biggest church organization Yeah. In the world.

Now that is separate from the incompetence of this public relations department who would like like, the last thing that you wanna do in the midst of some sort of scandal is leave a bunch of open questions. Like, you just don't want you wanna be as clear as you can as early as you can with specifics that make that matter, so that you can, like, control the the what what people are talking about. You don't wanna still be talking about this month over month over month. And this is terrible. They're doing a terrible job. Yeah. They they do not have, a good, PR person here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's everyone has been drinking, they said. So the woman said also her recollection is not completely coherent. What they just, like, ask her once why they walked by her in the hall and that was it? I don't know. Yeah. Hey. Do you remember anything with bra okay. I mean, you know, was late. As local That's a lot of drinking. That's a lot of drinking to not remember something. Yeah. That's not like, hey. They had a couple social drinks. Right.

Yeah. The church conference, pastoral staff, leaders of the movement, spiritual leaders getting plastered in a bar picking up strangers. Yeah. This is great. Yeah.

Here's here's the thing. And no one's I'm gonna I'm gonna grant right now that no one listens to me, and no one listens to the program, and no one who is of any level of popularity would know or care what I think. But can we can we just say, look. It's you can't be cool. You you can't be the guy who leads the church and be cool. The guy who who does the things that the culture think is cool. This is bad. You know what saying? Like Yeah. You're the guy who goes when everyone else is doing the things the culture think is cool, you go, nah, man. I'm good. I'm good. Right. Right. Right. He's Isn't that their whole thing, though? Well so kind of. I I like

Like, running around without their shirts on, being all ripped and chiseled and having a few social drinks because because of the can. Yeah. But Isn't that their deal? So that isn't that the thing this is this is the thing that I've, I don't wanna say I've I've got difficulty with, but, like, there are times when I sympathize with the old codger who says the world is ending and then everyone's a sinner. Yeah. You know, because, like, as much as I wanna see us not shackle ourselves in places where scripture doesn't

Mhmm. Like, is not that that prude of a man who's always complaining about the new music and how how what type of the stuff people are wearing and the liberalization of the language, is he not right sometimes? Yeah. And you're like, come on. Like, here's the thing. There's the two things I hate to happen. You hate to see someone,

follow paths in their lives that God didn't design, and you hate to see, like, real pig headed codgers be right. And doggone it if Brian Houston hasn't brought this group together. I I mean, is it does it does it almost seem like there's a whole bunch of king Sauls out there? They got the charisma and the looks and the and and all the popularity, and then they just make some really poor choices, and then God's like, Yeah, I think I'm done with you people. I mean, does that seem what's going on in the megachurch out there? Not all of them, but Yeah. Right. I mean, there's so many that get caught up in the the glory of it all, the the the the hype and and and being, like, a

mega pastor star, you know, that that they're just making poor choices. And and I just it's almost like the god's like, I told y'all not to have a megachurch, and Right. You had to have one anyway because you thought everybody else had one and it was cool. Yeah. You know? And now look at you. That's right. I actually think if anything anything you walk into, even if you believe it is a right type of thing, like something that God would would want,

if you are under the impression the phrase, yes, no one else could, but I can handle it applies to you. Mhmm. You're it's incorrect. Yeah. Like like two red flags and a spike to the throat. This is not you cannot handle it. Like, it's so it's like it's like clockwork though. Like Yeah. It's it's always all the all the the really big ones, and you're like, well, this is sustained for so long, and and, like, oh, it won't be like that one other guy. He couldn't handle it. It moved too far too fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's not different. Human power is corruptive. It's not different. It it took me a long time to figure this out because I wanted to be that guy too. I mean, everybody goes out of college. I'm like, yeah, everybody's going to ministry. I'm gonna be the next megachurch guy, and and that was my big goal

and and everything. At the same time, I refused to compromise on certain things. It wasn't till later I looked back and thought, oh, those are the things that make you mega, though. Right. Right. But it's like I I just refused to. There were certain things I I would not go back on. Yep. Whether it's, know, commitment to family, commitment to staff, commit know, whatever, different things that that that there's half a dozen people I probably should have fired in my life that never did. It's like, no. I'm gonna give this guy another month or another year or whatever. And and a a megachurch would have gotten rid of him in a in a heartbeat. Right. You know? And it's like, no. I I had bigger values than that. That's right. Or or, you know, guess what? I'm going to my kids' little league game.

Yep. I should probably go see those three people who were at church Sunday, but I'm not going to. You know? Right. Those are conscious choices. Yep. And so got to a certain point. It took me a while where I was like, no. Actually, I'm glad I'm not the megachurch guy. Number one, I'm not wired that way. I'm not corporate man. Yep. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. But, yeah, it's it's

it's it's I don't know. That's just it just crossed my mind. It's it's the Saul, the King Saul thing. They they all start out well, and then they go crazy. Yeah. It's and it's like it's there's no reason I think it's really easy to throw babies out with bath waters. Yeah. Yeah. And, hey. This thing was doomed from the start. I don't know that that was the case. Just like King Saul didn't have to be. Yeah. There was a path to to to to faithfulness, and but, like, there's a precipice, and then you have to make a human choice or a spirit led choice. And, like, when you make the human choice, you start to bathe in human consequences, and then your water splashes all over everyone else that you're supposed to be leading. Gosh. It's so it's this this this it's such garbage. Such garbage. Because, like, here's the thing, though. I I just if there's this, sorry. I bring this up often because we have a very wide range of conversations with this logic clutch I I teach. But, like, we were we were watching the

we were watching the State of the Union, Biden's State of Union address. And the reason I wanted to watch it was, hey. Can we can we watch for any logical fallacies that may show up, in in the speech? But then Or even complete sentences. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, you know, certain things that just kinda fall off the edge. But like one of the things that we're watching out for is like, okay, what what what argument is being made? And then to people tend to fall into even at that age, like the high school age, they hear things that their parents think or they're pick up something in school. And like, they've got like a real quippy kind of one they've got a core response. So like, oh, that's stupid. That's wrong. I know blah blah blah. And all it takes is like two questions in to go, isn't this a lot more gray than what you think? Like, hey, I think the government should stay out of things. Great. What a like, some of the depth of which the government is involved in things happen because we let the government was not involved and, like, people are being so significantly mistreated. And so everything? Well, no. Probably not. And, like, we talked we talked about some of the foreign policy and we talked about some politics stuff. And, like, the core thing was is that, like, you've got to recognize that the world is always more gray than you're being presented. Mhmm. It just isn't so easy. And, like, just the the the same way that, like, I I echoing some of things Dan's talking about, like, there's a significant human power risk in churches of that size. Like, are people meeting Jesus in these structures? Some are. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some are. And, like, there's places where the the their their notion of God culturally

is related to their grandparents. Like, they just didn't it it seems like like, like the famous Nietzsche, like, god is dead. God died forty years ago, and he lives in an old like, his spirit lives in an old dusty church somewhere. Like, to the extent that Yahweh doesn't feel relevant in our lives, we are probably doing it wrong. And so, like, that people can connect with someone whose whose faith is spoken of openly and and and gives the perception that, like, it matters in your life. It matters in in the the the what you do and how you marry and how you raise your kids. Like, these are all relevant messages. And, like, if it takes

were people connecting with some of that in some of these giant churches? Of course, they were. Oh, yeah. They were. And there's and there's people like, I like I sympathize. Like, I'm in the same boat as Dan. Like, I'm not a magnetic speaker, really. I can teach the bible, but, like, I'm not good at that very and, like, you can hear some of these guys, and, heck, I like to listen to them. They're good. They're good at at at at getting people's attention and telling good things. And so, like, is there room? Do you have to go and go, you know what? You can't, your band has to suck, and your guy has to not be a people person. It has to be dry as a bone. Otherwise, the Lord's not in it. Like, that's dumb.

But but doggone it anyway, if by going down some of these paths, like, we just can't throw up a roadblock to save our lives and go, yeah, up to this point. And then like Dan like Dan was saying, but here's the things that we do not compromise on, not even a wee bit. Mhmm. And then as long as whatever this other stuff is fits within the boundaries and principles of things that we don't compromise on, then let it fly for the glory of the lord. But, like, not not an inch over. Not ever. We, like, we don't drink at the church conference. I don't care if it's cool. Like, I don't Right. I you know? Right. Gosh. It's it's and it's so difficult because, like, I I'm I'm so cautious of not overreacting in ways of which, like and and and trying to cut off and say, well, the only thing that's holy is the thing that I'm comfortable with. That's stupid. Yeah. But, like

but but you gotta call your risks out. You gotta know what your risks are. And, like, for heaven's sakes, you know, people who lead churches, pull yourselves together. Right. Put the right things in place and go, you know what? Like, you've watched other people get blown up on this thing. And can you just go, you know actually, I I I can't remember if I said this when I was listening through it, but, like, I was listening to that rise and fall of of Mars Hill podcast. Mhmm. And, one of the one of the episodes was about, how Mark just kind of usurped the the elders. He just went around. He took all the power out, and that there were there were a couple of elders specifically who were like, dude, you gotta recognize what you're doing here. Like, you're trying you're you're you're consolidating under you. This is not biblical. And he he basically had them fired,

and they terminated his elders. And but, like, my gut reaction right after that was is I texted I sent a text message to two two dudes in the church. And I said, look. If I've not said this enough or very clearly, like, you have full permission at any time. If you hear me teach something that is outside of scripture, if you see me behaving in my personal or, like, my private life and my public church life, stories I tell that do not are not, worthy of a man who has taken the responsibility to pastor this church. Like, I expect you to say it. Mhmm. And and I don't care what I tell you in reaction to you saying it. You have my permission while I have a clear eye in case something ever goes afoul. And, like, I feel like, that's not holy. You should do that. Like, that should be your, humble position and not just as a pastor. I mean, anybody, really. Like, I'm misrepresenting Christ here. Mhmm.

And so I don't know how other guys like, I I felt I felt like, this is not even remotely a problem for me that I'm aware of, but I thought, you know, it could be. Neither were they. I'm a human. And so I thought, I I'm sending this thing directly. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, I just don't I understand how how this doesn't I don't know, Dan. How do how does it not sit on them? There there there is a a church marketing machine. There's this machine that that that steps in as church gets to a certain size, and I don't know what size that is because I've never been there. But but from what I've heard from people who have been there, when you get to a certain size, like, the the the publishers start coming after you. Yeah. They start building you up. They start making you bigger than you are. Then the church themselves, the leadership begins protecting you and and circling around you because, oh, now you're you're bigger than the church. You know? Yeah. Right. The personality.

And you do that long enough with enough people and get enough distance between when you were a normal setting where people can call you on the carpet and you're just Joe walking down the street and you're a superstar. There there's a transition that happens in in guys with anybody. Yeah. You know? It would me too that that that makes you it's just it's the movie star thing. It's the Michael Jackson. You know? Yeah. Some of the oddities you go, Oh, he never had a childhood. I mean, I don't know why I picked him specifically,

but they're just living a different world. And that's some of these pastors. And then add that spiritual element onto it. They even think that they're like beyond God. They're like beyond the stuff they're teaching. You know? I'm gonna go ahead and get plastered in in while in this church conference and go hang out with this girl I don't know and go into her room for forty minutes and forget what I did because I am under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Right. And that's okay because I'm me. You know?

Yeah. It it can happen to anybody, so I don't wanna overjudge them, but I'm so glad I'm not there. Yeah. Right. Right? I'm I'm glad God protected me from myself. Yeah. Because who knows? But for the grace of God, we're we're what I'd you know, you don't have to be a megachurch to mess up like that. No. And, like, and with a with a with power like that, with the situation that you're in and with the the celebrity that comes along with it, like, the temptations are a lot harder. Like, they're more frequent.

People are more more flagrant about it. Like, I'm unlikely to run a be walking down the street and have some lady go, hey, fella. Like, probably not. But, like,

it's the things that you would that you will that I will never be tempted by by the nature of my looks and personality. A a a guy who's got a lot of influence, who appears to be a trusted person, like, he will end up in situations and around people who are willing to tempt him in way like, it's harder. Like, it it does amp up the game. Mhmm. And those temptations become accessible in ways that may not apply to everybody else. And, like, again, this you're double careful. Yeah. I I had a small taste of that when we lived in Atlantic. We were kind of the big fish in the small pond thing. It's a small town, 7,500. And somewhere along the line, I started writing this weekly newspaper column, which honestly was not I'm not a writer. I'm not an an English major. You know, it's just kind of a blue collar dude telling a little story Yeah.

In an unskilled way. But it connected because people knew who I was, and it was better than what they had evidently. And and it became like a a sensation in in the town to the point where, like, it led to two books and and and all this stuff. But but people would stop me. We when we got to a point where we I I'd be mowing my yard and someone would drive by and stop and say, are you Dan Hudson? And I and I'm like

I I mean, it was kinda like, are we seriously? In your lawn mowing shorts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Every time we went out to eat, people would stop by the table. Oh, I love your column about blah blah blah, you know, whatever, the one with the dog or whatever. Yeah. And and it was just amazing. And I imagine that in a in a in a larger

that was like little old Atlantic, Iowa. Right? I could go to Des Moines, no one would know who I was. Right. But be be a larger celebrity when you go out there's like this guy we're talking about, he's at a hotel. Everybody there knows who he is. Yeah. You know? Everybody I mean, he's household name. Here we are talking about him in Johnston, Iowa. He doesn't know who we are, and we're talking about him. I can't even imagine. And it was somewhere in there. I I've told you guys before that that there you know, Gal invited me to her house, and she was all in the lingerie and everything. And I was too naive to realize what was happening. I thought she just, oh, maybe she forgot I was coming. Right. Know?

I was like, no. She invited me in. It was totally comfortable in what she was wearing. And she was like a super attractive gal. And it wasn't it was just like in the last five years, thought, wait a minute. That was like a thing. That was like I mean, maybe that's a a situation where God just blinded me to say, dude, just just don't just just be dumb. Yeah. You have no idea. You have no idea what she's doing here. Okay. Whatever. So she's kind of attractive. Yeah. Yeah. And she's not wearing much clothes.

You know? But I I imagine that kind of stuff. Oh, well, it happened to him. Yeah. Right. He just knocked on their door. Come on in, buddy. Right. What? Yeah. I mean, so I I could see I I I don't understand it, but I could see how that could happen. Yeah. That you wouldn't you just you'd have to put those boundaries up and look like luckily, my boundaries were there. I just it never even occurred to me to, like, go the extra step with this person because, well, god said don't, so, of course, you don't do that. That's right. That's right. But yeah. Anyway And you and you don't put yourself in positions where you are, where you're not of a sound mind. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much more than you're protecting than, like, an an hour and a drive home and a

like, what what I guess, like, it's I just don't know how maybe you get used to it. Like, he's been he's been the pastor, the leader of a giant organization for quite a long time. Mhmm. And, like, the things that seem so heavy to me, like they would weigh on you all the time, like you can't actually carry around at that level. You you won't ever accomplish anything. And so you gotta learn to start shaking things off, not take consequences personally. And so maybe when that when that weight of your influence

starts to not sit on you, then you you start to forget the the the boundaries that should probably exist because of the weight that should have existed. Yeah.

I mean, at that point, you're you're looking at numbers and and figures. You're not looking at people. Right. Right. Right. And and that's why I've always, know, said, like, oh gosh. As much as I wanted to be the CEO guy, I'm I don't. I I would hate that. I hate every moment of that. But, yeah, the the the stuff that would keep you and I awake at night, they're just like, well, I hope somebody's taking care of that. I mean Right. You know? And that's and, like, for a for a for a large org like, I work for a large company. Uh-huh. Like, the the the in its current iteration, it's a little smaller, but I mean, it used to be over, like, a 100,000 poke and was a worldwide company. And so Yeah. Like, I've worked for for a giant organization.

And, like, like, reasonably, at some level, like, you can't be the people person. Like, you you have you're to the numbers and processes and policies. The numbers have to rule at some point. That's right. And like but that begs the question is should our organizations ever reflect a situation of which we can't interact with people? In which the what like, the point at which it switches to numbers,

like, is it possible that the church shouldn't be beyond that? And I don't mean like, I don't mean like event like, I think you could do events. I think you could do gatherings. Yeah. Yeah. We're like if it does I mean, somebody's gotta man the porta potties and not know that Ted's in it. That's fine. Yeah. But like, but for I mean, for like your expression of this is my

community, and I think people have a high tolerance for how many people. It's it's I think it can be quite a few, but like I just at some point where you go, like, I just can't be involved in the people stuff. I'm running an organization. Mhmm. That should throw up the flag that goes, you know, that is that what I is that what God's calling on my life was to to to to run a corporation? Yeah. But shepherds are no longer talking about sheep. You've lost something. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And I think we've talked about this before that I think there that maybe there's room for the guy who's not the pastor. Mhmm. To like, hey. I'm I'm I'm it's it's it's a funny thing to think about, but, like, you find someone else to run the organization. I'm pastoring here. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's alright. Maybe you just got, like, a secretary

and, like, a guy who puts organizations together and then 50 pastors. I'm I might be cool with that. Mhmm. There might be a path. They just work on who gets the building win or something. Like, I think there's a path there. Yeah. But, man, alive. It's just it's just so hard. I know that there's, Hillsong's a common target, one within the church just because people are worried about their theology.

Yeah. And I think to to Nathaniel's point, like, some of the hipness of the, of the pastors again, some of that's jealousy. Some some of us were like, boy, I wish I was a little bit suave than that cat. I wish I could hang out with Justin Bieber. I'm thinking about taking my shirt off right now if you guys don't mind. Yeah. You know, Dan, I got the cameras back up and rolling. You might as well bathe them. I mean Baptize them in your glory. Yes. I was watching a clip from it was another I think I think it was Joe Rogan podcast or something like that where they were talking like, I don't know how it came up, but I think it was I don't know if it was this guy or not, but I think it was a

a Hillsong pastor. Was, It like, hanging out with Justin Bieber with his shirt off and walking around. Lance. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, what is going on here? Like, when did you become, like or feel the need to be so hip? Like, I just I don't I don't get it. I've read stuff where they have a there's a special door for celebrities to come in. You know, you knock on the door, they'll come in. They get escorted to the front so everybody can see the, oh, you know, Michael Jordan's here today, you know, or whatever. Yeah. That sports team I'd heard had gone in. Oh, I I actually I was with the guy. That's it. He he was part of a basketball team,

and and they went to this one of these churches, whichever one we're talking about, the Yeah. Wherever that's at. And and they, the manager, they took him. They knocked on the side door, and and they they took the whole basketball team into the front. They sat it right in the front, and they wanted everybody to see the the the was he with Kansas? It was like a big basketball team. Yeah. Very popular at the time. Kentucky. It was Kentucky. And yeah, that was a big he was like he was just kinda like going, I don't think this is right. Yeah. But that it was definitely part of the part of their thing. And then everybody's like, oh, look at the Kentucky teams here. You know?

And there was some tournament they were at that weekend. Gosh. That was, you know, several years ago. It's so like, I mean, Jesus red flags. Right? Hey, man. Don't walk to the front. Yeah. Take the lower lower piece till you're invited. Read a little James. Yeah. I I just,

I don't know I don't know if there's anything else to learn from it. Get you know, it's just it's just so difficult because I don't, I think there's actually when during the during the COVID stuff, I I find a number of the hill like the Hillsong worship stuffs,

really good. Mhmm. Really encouraging. We thoughtful. As a matter of fact, one of the we were one of the songs came up, for for worship this weekend, And, like, there's a number of these where, like, you can so you could read these as poetry. Like, they're like, they're thoughtful with their words Mhmm. In such a way that, like, they're beautifully done. Sometimes difficult to sing, but otherwise, you know, like thoughtful. And so

I I remember during during the COVID stuff, like, there was a particular, lady with one of the Hillsong bands and, like, she was she just hopped on and did a worship set, just her and a piano. She had just a beautiful voice. And, like, it was so it was so cool. It was it was like a great use of technology, a great use of their platform and their popularity to come on and, like kinda let Ring Collective kinda done the same thing. It's like, hey, what what can we do just to try to connect people with something that felt a little bit normal? And and so, like, that stuff doesn't happen in,

in a vacuum. Like, something about a church structure that has a little bit of space and a little bit of money to say it's alright to to to bring someone on and pay them to create music for Jesus in this way. And it's okay to have decent equipment. And it's okay it's okay to produce it well so that when you put it on YouTube, like, sounds good. It's not just like Ben put a camera in the corner type of stuff. Right. You know? And so, like, I I think it's we constantly do need to refine and go, look, we you you can't get what's good by doing what's not good. I think we that's we need to be clear about that. And then say and then but but you can still hold firm to the things that say, hey, look, we actually think this is valuable

but how do we protect it? Not not how do we not how do we stifle it, but I I but if something is good and important, we should be asking ourselves, like, how do we protect it? Mhmm. Because, like, think of all the this guy probably had this was 2019. He's been doing this for more than that. I think he's been twenty, thirty years or something. Like,

he probably could look back at his life with with in awe of all the things that it feels like God might has done Right. Through him and and trying to lead this organization or whatever. And, like, I let's get out of this I don't know enough about it to say either way whether you hate the man or not. But, like, I think, you know, people are getting baptized. People are meeting Jesus. He he won't know to Dan's point because it's a numbers thing. It's not like he knows whether it's stuck or not, which is bad. I think that's wrong. Right. But, like, you know, in general, could you look back and say, you know, not the work of my hands, but thank you for blessing it and let me see all these like, your kingdom growing in the world through something I got to touch? Like, what a and then what? And then when you just kinda whizzed all over it and you said this was here's forty minutes. Is this worth it? Or and the and and there's maybe there's more stories or whatever, and it's been a a the ongoing thing with them. But, like Well, it said the thing about the 2013 with the lady or whatever. They just kept the was that so weird? One like, a text message in 2013?

And what happened to there it seemed like there was no follow-up. That's what now? You know, seven years ago? Yeah. Right. Eight? Nine? Almost. Yeah. Huawei. I'm living in the past. Yes. But no no repercussions

then? Yeah. Maybe they just let it go because it was like, I mean, you gotta give people the benefit of doubt. Like, oh, he didn't really mean that. Yeah. You know? It was just one text message. It was a joke. Or And was it what was though? Was it was he sending out his winger? Or I don't know. They didn't say. This was so odd. Like, hey. There's a they just said a text message in 2013. Doesn't everyone have a reasonable follow-up question? Yeah. What was in it? What was it? Like What made it inappropriate? Yeah. Right. Like, you could just you could say it was an inappropriate picture. They're like, okay. That's enough. Mhmm. Or, like, a proposition or, like, something that gives you a characterization of what or did he just tell an off color joke? Yeah. And, like, probably shouldn't have, and then he stopped. I I mean, we can work through some of that stuff.

But, anyway Also, who cares? You know? Like, what you know what I mean? Like You're gonna have to clarify what you're talking about. I mean, obviously, she cares, and people should care in his organization.

But, like, for it to be on a on a website and for us to be talking about it, it seems like, you know, so far removed that it's like Oh, what business is of of ours? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Like, if this could be happening, you know, with any Johnny Johnny pastor guy in some tiny church, and we'll never hear, but, like, just because he's not at a conference and he's getting drunk by himself and, you know, all that and that sort of thing. But I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's true. There's, pastors

are humans. I everyone probably has well, there's probably a good chunk of pastors who have some sort of, like, something like that, That that there was some mistake they made, weren't pretty weren't thoughtful, had they dealt with it, and then they kinda moved on. And I think I think there's room for your pastors to be human. And it's odd, though. Like, for for such a big deal as this this last thing is, like, if this is the only other thing that ties, like, your sinew together, it's

not a super hard story for a guy. I don't know. Yeah. I the whole thing just that's just really unfortunate. It says, Hillsong's global board appointed a four person integrity unit. Why is it in quotes like that? That is that seems disingenuous.

The integrity unit. Not just the elders. What? Isn't that what that's supposed to be? Well, yeah. Like, why do we need a separate like, why do the elders lack integrity? Then you gotta get a four person team. Four person. Like, that's a weird number even. I don't know. Yeah. Cool. Let's make it seven. Let's write them. Let's see. It says, Dooley told Hillsong staffers that even though the woman in the 2019 incident had a lot of conflicting emotions, she told someone at the church about the encounter. The woman also asked for a conference fee and a kingdom builder donation to the church returned. Houston repaid her from his personal funds.

That's doesn't it seem odd? It now see, hold on that piece of detail. Now it really starts to matter as to what went on in the hotel room. Because you're like, she asked for a refund? She goes She wasn't gonna go to the church but gave money to the church. Like, she went to the conference. And, yeah, and you're right, and donated to the church. Whatever this kingdom figure was, that, like, the apostle figure in level or whatever we talked about ten years ago. Kingdom builder.

Kingdom builder. Yeah. Right. It says Hillsongs go aboard. They they bring in the integrity unit to investigate the complaint and concluded Houston required church discipline, but he was not held accountable. What the flying heck does that mean? How can you need discipline, but you're not accountable for it? You ever tried that in parenting, Dan?

Like, you're grounded two weeks. I didn't think you you didn't really do anything wrong, but that's bogus. It was found that pastor Brian became disoriented after this is ridiculous. After a session at the Hillsong conference following the consumption of antianxiety medication beyond the prescribed dose mixed with alcohol. This resulted in him knocking on the door of a hotel room that was not his, entering this room, and spending time with the female occupant. This is the worst lie I've ever heard.

I'm not saying he wasn't drinking, and I'm not saying he wasn't on pills. But, like, this I got confused. I ended up talking like, knocking on the door of a woman that I spoke to earlier in the lobby, and then suddenly was able to strike up a conversation in the hotel room for forty minutes Yeah. And then left. And the woman was somehow didn't walk away with flying, like, glowing colors about it. This is ridiculous. Yeah.

Finally, the investigation by the integrity unit appointed by the global board found that although all parts of the complaint were unable to be sustained, important elements of the complaint were sustained, and the conduct was of serious concern. They found that Brian had breached the Hillsong pastor's code of conduct. The board further confirmed a statement reportedly made by Dewey that they had tried and failed to discipline Houston for the hotel room incident. How do you fail to do it? It was decided Brian should take three months off from oh, here we go. Off from ministry, but, unfortunately, he didn't abide by that. He did conduct some ministry, and he did consume some alcohol. Okay. I'm back with Dan. He's arrogant.

Yeah. Three months to work through, like, whatever this like, he was able to take more time off, blah blah blah. He addressed his alcohol use. And oh, oh, wait. Wait. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Here we go. There's more no more information. In the 2013 incident, Dooley said Houston sent a text message to the former staffer along the lines of, if I was with you, I would like to give you a kiss and a cuddle or a hug.

Boy, that is really nerdy. And creepy. Yeah. I've just lost respect for him. Yeah.

Not that I didn't before. But Yeah. But that's that's weird. That's mean, that's yeah. That's not even like a cool guy move. That's just like Right. You. I would like to kiss you. Hug you and squeeze you and call you friend.

Hey, George. It's like it's like a phrase off of those hard candy Valentine hearts that no one eats. This is the level of he's not suave. I don't know how he got this position. I will love you and snuggle you. Don't forever. Oh, man. How are let's see. In light of the evidence,

before the global board, the decision was made to offer what I would call grace, not to cover up and not to expose. It's not what? The idea was that Brian would use the time to get healthy. However, not all of Hillsong elders agreed with that approach, and they'd started raising the issue publicly with Walgreens. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're not about exposing people. Why not? I mean, I I get it. There's some things you wanna deal with privately, but, like, to the extent that he's unrepentant, he's not reacting in the way that they've asked him to Yeah. Then, like, I you know, you already took two fellas. They're not actually dealing with it. Yeah. That's right. That's right. And it's not so this guy says,

sin is messy, and it brings all kinds of pain. While they endeavor to act biblically in handling the complaints against Houston, which is not covering it up, boys, Hillsong's global board admits that the church needs to review its governance model. Finally, this is the end of the end of the article. Like many other churches of its size, Hillsong's governance model had historically placed significant control in the hands of the senior pastor, but we recognize that the way we do things needs to be reviewed. We know there are areas in which we can improve, and we will work honestly and transparently to that end. Alright. So so here's the deal. Mike Foust is a megachurch pastor. Mhmm. And he's right now, he's out of the country. He's speaking. He's holding some leadership thing. We're we're we're his elders. Right? If

he falls, we get our identity. But, yeah, I'm I'm elders of the Mike Foust church. Yes. We we get part of our identity being with him. We're part of his entourage. Yep. So if he falls, we fall too, and all of a sudden, we're nobody's. So there's a little bit of self protection in there, I think, from the leadership as opposed to really keeping him accountable. It's like we've gotta keep him propped up, and we've gotta hide some of this stuff. I think that's going on too. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. No one wants to be part of like, it takes a real different kind of personality to be the whistleblower type, to be the guy that says,

like, what people think of me, be damned. Yeah. I'm going I'm going to say the thing. Yep. Because everyone else you're right. They're that that they were proud of their church. They're proud of where they've gone. They're probably proud and and and not even in a, like, a sinful way or anything. Like, they just they felt good about what God was working with, the things they were contributing to. Yeah. The YouTube videos are blowing up. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like you felt like you were contributing to something that was making a difference in the world. Mhmm. And at some point, you say, do we need to protect the brand because we need to protect its influence? And the moment that you say, do we that you anything comes before, do we need to protect Christ crucified?

Then you know that you have a problem. Yeah. Is there anything more important than that? And if there is, then that's that's where the that's and it's that brand thing. And like, I guess that's the other thing is like, are we putting ourselves in a situation where, like, when you can't be around the people or that you have your brand is important enough that it feels like it needs protected over and above Christ crucified. That's probably key item number two that if that was the case. Do you think that they feel like they are protecting Christ crucified? Because in that if,

you're in that scenario, it's like, okay. You know, now we have to, kinda maybe shield. I I I don't know. I'm trying to think through some what maybe what what one of their motives would be. Like, okay. We we got this guy who screwed up, and now he's just another,

another one on the pile. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These Christian. Pastors who have messed up and abused power and like, how could Jesus let this happen? How could Christ let this happen? Could any of this be real at all with all these dudes who just get, you know, climb to the top and then become corrupt? Oh, totally. Like, especially with a church like that where like a lot of the growth is coming from like, they're reaching people who previously were unchurched

because there's something compelling about either the message or the music or something like that. And like like, could someone reasonably think to themselves, hey, what is how what does this look like from someone who's just just stepping foot into a church for the first time or just meeting Jesus?

And, like, do they misunderstand Jesus and the church by hearing about this thing? Could someone think that? Yes. Could they think it under like, are they concerned about the right types of things, the impact on these folks? Yes. They are. It still isn't the answer to protect them. But, like, I think that's right, which, again, I think makes things great. Like, it's really easy to come down hard on people, but, like, I I often find that people's motives are interestingly less selfish than what I might have presumed in a black and white scenario. Like, oh, we need to protect the church. You're right. They very well could just be thinking, like, I care about all these people who are in this church. I don't want them to misunderstand Jesus because this guy hosed up, and the easiest way to do that is to protect what people find out.

I think that's I think there totally could be people to do that. Now I think I think the gospel's stronger than that. Yeah. I think it's it's really misguided, especially with like, if you're trying to protect and not using the the means that Jesus said to use, then you're probably not protecting Jesus very well. Yeah. But at least you're not thinking about it, you know, all the way through. Yes. I think that's that's the issue is that, like, it's just not thought through. Like, can you is it right to care about people and be concerned about what this does to their faith? Yes. It is. But you don't but the the they got in this mess by human following human means when they should have followed the spirit means. And, like, you're not gonna get out of it by following human control means either. Like, the spirit the spirit means would have worked before, and they'll most certainly work now. They'll do the thing that it's supposed to do. But, like, I get it. I I think I I I have sympathy for that.

Because a lot of times it's out of it's not out of arrogance. It's out of ignorance. It's not someone like, they they they they may not actually fully know what which is the right time to ask. Hey. What do how would Jesus handle this type of thing? What should should we do? Not what do I feel like doing. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Hey. You're listening to live from the path. If you got any comments on that story, you think we're way off or, whatever, you just let us know. You can call the life from the path Bob Bisseller complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085. That's call or text (515) 517-0085,

And, that's the, you give us a holler and let us know, anyway, how we're doing or whether you agree, disagree on that story, where we got it wrong, where you think maybe you're maybe you're the old codger type that I was saying about earlier. And here's the thing. Bless you, son. I like I know you get them right sometimes. I think that doesn't justify some of your positions, but, like, I will I'm free to acknowledge that, sometimes I'm in your corner. I'm like, yeah. We'll just cut everything off. We can't handle any of it. Back in my day, we used to be teetotalers,

not a sip. None of us were caught in a in a ladies room for forty minutes, and we liked it that way.

Alright. I don't know. We're gonna skip that for now. Alright. Let's do some Let's, let's keep this train rocking here. Dear oh, boy. What's what's going on here? Dear life on the path, I've been in a relationship with a man I met at work. It took me six months to decide to be oh, couple of cats. I wonder if Mike screens these. To be intimate with him, and it will be a year next month. Things are going great. The only issue

what are your guesses, Dan? There's only one problem. What is it? His wife. Nathaniel? Yeah.

I was gonna listen. I'm sorry. I'm gonna be honest. I heard intimate, and then maybe Mike screams these, and then I stopped listening. Okay. We're start it again. Okay. Okay. So far, I'm logging Dan as wife. I've been in a relationship with a man I met at work. It took me six months to decide to be intimate with him, and it will be a year next month. Things are going great. The only issue is Dan says he's got a wife. What do you say?

He yeah. I'm gonna go wife too. Okay. Hard bets on wife. The only issue is he has a wife and kids. The children are about my age. Oh. Oh, wow. Oh. Hey. That's two left turns. Good heavens. Two left turns. Here we go. Oh. Oh, boy. This she's this is a humble type. This is why Mike does like that. You slipped into my hotel while there was That's right. Forty two minutes for

Goodness. She says, I am young, beautiful, and I know I deserve more. But I'm falling in love with this man, and I can't resist our passionate sex life.

Goodness me. He's done things with me I've never experienced before. We see each other often, and I enjoy his company. This is the first time I have ever been a side piece, and it bothers me that the time we spend together is limited, and I can only call within certain hours. I know he likes me, but my feelings for him are way stronger. How do I resist my yearning to want to be around him or just talk on the phone? Should I change jobs to have a new beginning or consider relationship with someone who doesn't have to be a secret? How can I end this win with every fiber of my being I want to stay? You yeah. It needs to be a a hard end, whatever however that happens,

whether you have to move, leave. I mean, you you are dishonest. You are a whore. You you are destroying children's lives. This man has a wife. He he's a jerk.

You don't want that kind of guy. If he's cheating on his wife, what makes him think you're he won't cheat on you? Yeah. I mean, there's so many things wrong with with this whole thing. I don't care how he makes you feel for ten minutes. It's it's he is just he is using you and discarding you and going home to his family, and you you need to end that for your sake and his sake and his wife's sake and his children's sake. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is this is this is difficult because, like, I my gut reaction is, like, based upon the age, if you're you're as young as his children,

and it's it's not it's not hard to tell what what the relationship is at work, like whether he's a boss or something like that. But, like, my first gut reaction would be like, hey. Look. You're you're being deceived. You're being misled by this man. He's he's manipulating you. But here's the thing. Like, you know he's married. You know he has children. And you seem to be arrogantly pursuing this relationship and wondering,

like and saying you deserve more and, like, allowing yourself to go further and further into something that you know is disastrous not only for you but for other people, for innocent people who are getting no pleasure out of any of this. Right? Like, you might be getting some some some cheap earthly stuff going on here, but, like, that wife and kids, they this is not a mutual benefit. They're getting they're destroyed here. And, like, and you're contributing to that. And, like, I mean, this is him. He these are his wife and kids. And so, like, Dan's right. I like he's a jerk. We should lay this on him. But, like, I mean, the second you knew that Mhmm. The second you knew that I mean, you shouldn't be in the relationship with him anyway. You should get married and find a church and love Jesus. But, like, the second you knew that, like, this should have been an an a done thing a done thing. And so, yeah, I I would agree. I would I would break this as, you don't even need to tell him. I just wouldn't show it. Very frankly, if if I were be because of the level of attachment that you have,

if you were willing to listen to somebody that you trust and do the thing that they told you to do, I would tell you you don't show up for work tomorrow. I would I would change your phone number. I would just start over. Mhmm. This is too much of a mess, and it's already it's already risked too much damage. And, like, there's no way to get out of this in a way that's healthy. If if you came into my office and told me this story, I would give you one week, and I'd say if you haven't told him, I will. Yeah. And I'll be calling the wife. Yeah. Yeah. This is just like this is

it's wrong. Here's this. Even even on the sliding scales of humanity, like, this is straight up wrong. And you you should not devalue yourself, for this man,

and, you should, not wanna be at all associated with, the type of man who would do these type of things with, to his wife and children. This guy is living like a king. Yeah. He's having all the little kinky sex with this little half age little girl over there, and then he's going home and playing family with his wife and his adult children.

You know? Maybe there's grandkids involved. Who who knows by this time? Yeah. He this guy is despicable. He needs to be called out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nathaniel?

What do you think attracts a a lady to an old dude like that at work? Like, I I just I can't imagine. It's just so it's so wild. Just I mean, the they're put to well, here's the thing. Nathaniel,

you were a young man, and and still are. Sure. And and although, you know, like, I recall being a young man and compared to, hopefully, the husband I am now, I wasn't a catch twenty years ago. I was really banking on the fact that my wife, did not know any better and to have married a man like me at the time. Because, like, think just think of the pick of the litter for for young ladies, at a 20 year old dude's. It's hard to find a competent man. That's true. And so, like, when you see a guy who is kind to you, who has a means to, you know, take you out, who treats you well, who compliments you. In himself. That's right. That's right. And and who can help build confidence in you knows the right types of things to say to him, the things that they really need to hear that the doltish fellas that they're probably dating don't have. Yep.

Yeah. It's it's such a low ladies have such a low bar that it takes like, it's that's not meant as offensive. It's it's it's meant to to like, the guys have set such a a low behavior threshold at those ages that, like, it doesn't really take much effort to to show a woman that she's important and that you think something of her and to compliment and just be and just being kind and competent Being kind. And not being a doofus. Not wasting your life on video games. Yeah. Yeah. We probably all know guys in our world who like, when when I was younger, I knew guys that were young that that somehow

knew the game. They knew what to say. They knew how to treat them. They knew how to how to compliment them and and do all the things we're talking about. They just happen to be young too. They they did it for for nefarious reasons, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They just used one woman after another and left him in shambles. This is a guy who's who's who's still playing that game. Yeah. And and he's getting away with it, and you're letting him get away with it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. He's a real butthead. He's a real butthead. Get out of I'll give him a shirt. Yeah. Yeah. Buy

him a shirt that says, I'm a real butthead. I'm a real butthead. And then don't go to work and never talk to him again. Yeah. That'll solve it. Yeah. I yeah. I'm I'm all for, I'm all for blowing this up. Secular says, this affair is going nowhere, so sharpen your survival instincts. Wake up and realize it could go on until he decides to trade you in for a younger, fresher side piece he can impress with his prowess. I'm willing to bet you are not his first nor will you be his last. Quitting this person will not be entirely painless, but do it cold turkey anyway. You already know how. And if you're feeling generous when you wave goodbye, thank him for the many valuable lessons he's taught you because you intend to share them with younger, stronger, single men. Believe me, there are plenty out there. I don't know. I don't know what happened in the back half of that advice,

but, it sounds like we're aligned at least on it's just it's Splitsville. Yeah. You know, I I tell you the thing is is this is gonna tie to like a broader, like a macro narrative, I guess. But like, people who are willing

to believe that there is a whole that that there's a that that sorry. I'm trying to think of right way to say this. That there can be a new life for them. Some people do that entrepreneurially.

Like, they become people who can start businesses and, like, have ideas that can change the world and, like, all kinds of you know, many times I've had an idea where I'm like, boy, this would be really cool. And then, like, within five years, every someone has started acting on those ideas. And I'm like, shoot, man. I could have done that. That would have been fun to to have done. I mean, and it's not it's very possible that, like, obviously, they thought of it too, so it's not the most original idea. But, like, someone's succeeding not only because they thought of something, but because they took action on it. And so, like, the ability to believe

that, like, not be so bound by the safety of what you know and and willing to to to shake things up is is there are people who, like, have massive success simply because they're willing to take action where other people are not. They're like, nah. I just don't know. And, like, the same thing is true. That's like a positive reaction to it. But the same thing is true when you're in rough situations. Like, a lot of times you get boxed in by rough situations because you just can't imagine a life that's different than the one that you're in.

And, like, one of the things I would encourage you to do if you're in situations like this is, like, can we just be honest with yourself and say, look. What do I if I could reset the whole show, what would I want to be true? Well, I'd wanna be with a guy who's actually available to me. I will and maybe maybe you like some of the attributes of this man. Write them down. I want a guy who treats me kindly, a guy who, you know, compliments me and, who appreciates me for what I'm worth. Like, that I'm I'm a worthy human human being, but who does not treat me like, like a piece of property that he gets to visit and then leave and abandon. And so write the things down that you want. And like, here's here's what I'm not gonna tell you. You can't just think on them and they'll manifest. It doesn't work. But here's what I'm gonna tell you. If you look at those things, now you know how to look at your world and go, you know what? These none of none of the the life that I'm living is service serving this. And so I'm a I'm more gonna blow it up, and I'm a start over, and I'm not gonna settle for less than the things that I that I that I want in life.

And so, you can even and you can do that. And but it's it's just often hard because you feel bound by what's familiar. Like, boy, I quit my job. Here's the deal. Most people have quit their no joke. Most people have quit their job in the last two years. The the almost everybody quit, moved, did something else. And you know what? They were fine. And this is coming from a guy. I've worked for the same company for twenty years because I'm real hesitant. I'm like, I don't I'm I like it here. I'm familiar. I know these people. I know these processes.

I know the colors we use. I'd rather not move. You know? And, like, that probably has held me back, I don't know, with in from a career perspective, but, like, I just don't I don't have it in me a lot to just, like, blow up the world. But, I've I've been around so many people who are capable of this,

that it can be done way more than you think it can be done. It can be done. Alright. Dear life on the path. I am pregnant with my second child. My first child is a girl, and so is the baby I'm expecting. A few months ago, my husband's cousin gave birth to a girl. The baby had a heart defect that unfortunately could not be repaired. She died four days after birth. My heart was broken for not only this baby girl, but also her parents. I cannot fathom what it would be like to lose my child. While I've shared my good news with close family, I have not shared it on social media out of respect for my husband's cousin. I'm torn because this is a happy time in my life, and I would love to share my news, but I worry it would be insensitive. I've confided my concerns to a few friends. They are divided about how I should proceed, so I'm hoping you can offer guidance. At least she has a good heart about it. Yeah. I I'd say reach out to her to to to the the person personally before you

make a big deal of it on social media, but celebrate celebrate your child. But reach out to them and say, hey. I'm this will be sensitive for you. We want you to know we're pregnant. We're expecting a girl. Yep. And they they know you care. They know they know you cried with them, and and, you know, I don't I think it's okay. Yeah. It's hard, but it's but it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. I would say that even the notion of the question you're asking shows your heart's in the right place Yeah. Which means you're not likely to take a step that's gonna be, like, totally insensitive and blow the thing up.

And I did I think Dan's right. Like, here here's the thing. In the moment, it might be hard for them to take, but, like Mhmm. If if something like that were to happen in fact, I've had not that situation, but like some were like someone I think didn't wanna say anything because something rough was going on. And like in the moment, maybe that would've would hit me in one way or another. But like six months down the road, if I were to find out about that, I would be like, oh, man. Like, why would I want the thing that's causing me pain to also taint that thing? You know? And so, like, if someone would have reached out and just said, hey. You know, like exactly what Dan said and say, I I I wanted to share this. I just I'm real sensitive. I just don't want it. I know it's a rough time for you. And so,

you know, I thought about just not, you know, making sure that you couldn't see it or something on social media, but that also felt rude. And so look, I let's let me talk to you. They're gonna find out. Yeah. It's family. I mean, you're gonna find out. Right. Right. And they and, you know, I I I don't you can say, look, I don't expect a reaction from you. And, you know, I I just obviously wish this was a different circumstance. And I just wanted to tell you before I did it, that I you know, you're still very much on my mind or something. Like, whatever. There's a way to do it. Because, like, it's true. You're not making it up. It's true. Yeah. Nathaniel, what do you do? You you you just post it? Consider this. K. And this might be, this is a hot take. Okay. Don't post anything on social media about your life ever.

How about that? That's bold. Or anything that matters of substance, like having a baby. Because, like, you know, you got the the the five people around you and your parents that actually care. And then after that, it's like someone's gonna look at it and go, wow. I didn't know old, Shelby from high school is having another baby. Right on, Shelby. You don't think you don't think people's circles is a are a little bit bigger than that? I don't know. Yeah. Are you they could see mean, do they actually care, though? Did you did you is it because you're in the Mike Fuze chair? Because that sounds like a Mike Fuze type of thing to say. That, like Maybe. Nobody gives a crap, anyway. And, like, if they if they if they care about enough or if you care for them to know, you call them or text them. Pass that. You keep it off. That sounds exactly I mean, it's just it's just so it's I feel so baloney to post something on on the Facebook

or on the Instagram. It was like, look what's going on in my life. I'm having a baby. It's like, who nobody cares. Hey. But the the I know I kinda care. You care? Do. Some dude that you knew in high school? Well well I'm a baby? Like, it's real easy if if if the if it's the only people friends with five people in my family and then 500 people I went to high school with. If that were the situation, yeah. I mean, I suppose that's a little bit dumpy. But, like, I think you've got kinda circles of of friends and circles of influence of which, like, I may not care. There's a peripheral of, like, I would at least half of the people who I'm Facebook friends with, I I they don't care and I don't care. We're just connected for some reason or another. Yeah. But, like, you know, I would certainly say a 100 people with there's a 100 people on Facebook of which, like, they would want to know. It's similar to writing to writing letters

and letting somebody I suppose you're just not having to take the personal touch to it. You think it just feels lazy. I should have to get some addresses and send some cards out. Send some cards. Send the Christmas card out. Say, hey. This is what happened. Don't even tell them when it happened. Just let them know after after the fact, hey. We had a baby. Just so you know. Yeah. I mean, you could do that. Send the Christmas card out. It's weird. It's weird because it does feel kind of, if someone has a child and doesn't tell you, it it brings into stark relief what the nature of your relationship was, whether you knew it or not. Like, you might say, hey. I'm good friends with those people. But if they had a baby and then didn't bother mentioning it to you, you would be like, they are not as good of friends with me as I believed I was with them. Even if there was, like, a possibility where, like, okay. I'm good friends with this guy. And then a year goes by and they're like, what? They had a baby? Like, obviously, you're not that that great of friends. Like, if you woulda it woulda you woulda go gone and see them. So you're saying drop the facade. You woulda saw the baby in real life and said, wow. Look at this baby. What's its name?

And, instead, you just, like, live vicariously on the on the Internet and say, oh, yes. This I'm so happy that I got to see this baby. Okay. So here's the question. Is there no room in society for, in a healthy way for for casual acquaintances? Like, take the person that drove by Dan in his moan shorts and says, hey. Are you Dan Hudson? I really enjoy your column. Now Dan probably doesn't care whether that lady had a baby or not. Right. But but, like, someone took the time, but it didn't didn't wouldn't it mean something, Dan? Did it mean something for someone to take the time to say that?

Yeah. I mean, it it was it was flattering and kind of humbling too and and a little bit creepy. Okay. Fair. I mean So But it was kinda cool. It was more cool than creepy. Okay. Okay. I'm just like, for someone, it's it's kind of like you're giving so people on the show, as an example, we've had plenty of bad bands come in and people we've interviewed. And, like, if I were to say, hey. I'm, we're having another another baby, and, like, somebody who was on the show one time, you know, wrote congratulations,

I mean, they took the time to do it. They could have scrolled by. They could have thumbs up it. But like I said, they but they took the time to to say something. People I get all kind the the happy birthday still happen. Is there not a place for that, Nathaniel? I don't know. I just maybe it's because I'm not in, like, active on the on the on the Internet or anything like that that I feel disconnected from it. Well, yeah, man. If you don't invest in it, it's like a fine marriage.

You gotta put the effort in. I think that's true. The only time I the I I I get on the Facebook every once in a while, I look at things that I don't know why. 2011, 2012, I was posting, like, daily.

And You were in. You were all in. I all in. And it was all just the dumbest like, I'm I'm glad that the memory thing is there to remind me of how dumb I am. Or, like, I would never pop up be like, I wish that my clothes were made of bedsheets so that when I fell asleep in my clothes, I would already be tucked in. Like, I would have never remembered that that thought crossed my mind. But for whatever reason, in 2011, I had the the the gall to put that on the net for for the people know. To take in. This is what I'm talking about. This is what young ladies have to have to wait for and

to say, actually, I've got the same problem. Although, the opposite happens. I've the memories pop up from ten years ago. I'm like, boy, that's fine. That's real fucking That's real. I wish I had said that twice. Okay. I I don't know. I'm of I'm of mixed mind about it because, like, I am I'm actually totally for I think we talk about this on the show a lot, so I I won't belabor the point. But, like, I think I could totally get on board with, hey, just cut it off social media type of stuff. But then I I just want it feels like an overreaction to me. There I think I think there has to be room in life for, hey, Ted. How's your how's your wife? Oh, she's doing great. How's your houseplants? Oh, we're not lonely. Like, whatever

it is. The casual you would have casual interactions where, like, I I don't I don't need to know everything, but, like, life is is some like, you're you can have that sphere of influence where it's alright to ask the just one step in question. It doesn't have to be three. And I think that's probably alright. It doesn't make you shallow. It's just you've just set the appropriate boundaries for the depths of the right relationships.

Okay. So final advice, Dan. You say you you're sticking with, yours was reach out. Yeah. Reach out. Yeah. And and and and go ahead and don't don't feel I mean, celebrate this child. This is a a a gift from God. Yep. Yep. Okay. And Nathaniel says leave it off.

Yeah. I mean I mean, if you I also think that you should message them, the these people and say, hey. Listen. I'm sorry. Yeah. But this is where we're at.

This is where we're at. This where we're at. This thing happened. This thing happened. Bubba for everyone. Yeah. You don't you don't have to do announcement to say, your child died and ours didn't. Right. I mean, you know, you're you're not celebrating their loss. You're you're celebrating your gain and grieving their loss at the same time. So Yeah. And maybe the maybe the the advice here to you then is even if

if the cousin or whatever has a negative reaction, just know that that's not about you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Be patient with him. You know, do walk maybe just be be mindful of what you talk about in front of them or whatever and like, you didn't cause that. That was that was it's just an expression that's and they're working through something. And so do your best not to take it personally. Because like it's those types of things that happen and then now you're irritated with them for being irritated with you because you tried to handle it well. And then, like, stuff it's an unnecessary

chasm. Mhmm. Let them just just chalk it up to grieving, let it bounce, and then reengage at a later time. Because it could honestly be even worse if you try to not you know, try to hide it. Yeah. Because they're gonna I mean, you're the child's gonna be born. Right. And they'd like, what? You couldn't even tell me? You know, it's like a second hurt. Yes. That's right. That's right. Treat them like humans. You don't have to Yeah. Actually, sometimes we try to tiptoe around people, and, like, it doesn't mean when we when you say, like, you be direct, it doesn't mean you're, like, terse or offensive, but just, like, just ask the thing. Say the thing that you wanna say and see what see how they react to it. Like, I think I think we we do a lot of trying to figure people out, when oftentimes, the easiest thing is just to ask them. Hey. I can't figure you out. What would be best?

And then just listen to that. That's Ben's marriage advice for the night. Just just maybe just ask and see see what happens. Alright. I take it all back. I just looked at the the Facebook to see what the last time I posted was. Yeah. And it was on

June sixth of last year, and it was, for my anniversary. So, you know, a moment in life. Lest you be a hoopa crites. Yeah. You're out. I'm yeah. I'm back in. Post Okay. Post it. Alright. Let's see. Secular says, sooner or later, your husband's cousin and her husband are going to learn about your pregnancy if they don't already know. The kind thing to do would be to let them hear about it directly from you rather than via post on social media. After you've spoken with them, you can then share the happy news of the impending arrival for all your friends to see.

Holy cats. That's two for two. Super close. Alright. We're gonna do where we we closely align with seculars. We're gonna do one more. Dear, life from the path. I have been married to my wonderful husband Alec for five years. This is a second marriage for both of us. We raised children on our own and waited until they were out of the house to get into a relationship.

My issue is Alec plans events and then becomes stressed because the house or the food isn't perfect. My idea of an event is unnecessary, full colon. My family comes over and we enjoy each other's company. We usually do potluck and everyone helps with the cleanup. My husband's idea of an event is that we are the hosts and everyone sits down to a formal dinner. I hate this. Why would I spend all my time serving my family and cleaning up after them instead of enjoying being with them? In his defense, Alec does most of the prep and hosting on his events because I refuse to kill myself making sure everything is perfect. But even though he does most of the work, he's obviously irritated the whole time. And by the time of the event, we're barely speaking. These events are not fun for us, and visiting family notices the tension, so it's uncomfortable for them too. I just want to enjoy my family, not impress anyone. Our house is always presentable. It's not like I invite guests into a mess. To hear him talk, you think we have rats running around. I've tried discussing it with him, he says, my mom was a perfect hostess. She made everyone comfortable, waited on them, etcetera. You know what? I don't care what his mom did. This is how I entertain, and I'm not gonna kill myself and then have a miserable time. Am I unreasonable?

Oh, boy. Okay. You got Mary and Martha here. That that's that's all. I mean, it's just two personalities. And,

even Jesus said, hey. You know what? The the how about you you you slow down a little bit and listen to my teaching? He's not there, but but I I would side on the relax a little bit, enjoy your family. But I also understand if you're wired if you're not gonna enjoy it because if things aren't perfect, well, then

make it perfect, but don't be upset with her. Yeah. It's just a personality difference. It's it's it's it's I mean, he's gotta work through it, get through it. I wouldn't go crazy on it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I do think that, like, and I think this came up in a different advice where we're talking about the one of the lady who just likes it spic and span,

and, like, it felt overdone. And, like, to a certain extent, if you're gonna be the quirky person, like, you do have to bear most of the weight of your quirks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think I think as a spouse, you should do your best to support your spouse. And so, you know what, if if Yeah. Walk through the street or the

floor with muddy shoes. I mean Yeah. Right. Right. And, like, if this is important to him, like, you know, maybe do your best to try to help out, without you know, but but, like, people do have to realize that, like, if you're the quirky person, you can't be upset at someone else because they don't care about it the same way you do. Yeah. Like, people we get that a lot where, we're like, I just don't know why they don't care. They just don't. They're not wired to care. Well, they should care. Well, you care enough for everybody. Yeah. And so, like, you're just gonna have to back off a little.

And I know this is advice isn't for him. Otherwise, you'd say, look. You know, I think you need to honor your wife a little here. And if it's important to you and she's going along with it, and at least just staying out your way and not complaining about it, you should be thankful of that. And, you know, if it's important to you as a mama's boy to go do the thing your mama did, okay. Great. Go do that. But don't don't get mad. And then, like, recognize that she's sacrificing something for you. You should be willing to sacrifice something for her. You should be willing to let go of this thing and say, look. My wife wants a lay back Thanksgiving, and I'm gonna give it to her just like I would expect her to support you. And so, you know, just just don't be of don't be, the extremes are really unnecessary. Oh, we always do these events, or we just wanna be sloven slovenly and make my husband irritated. Like, there's no reason to do either one of those things. Yeah. Just trade them off. Hey. I get Christmas this year. Lazy lazy Christmas. Slob Christmas. Okay. Great. Great. We'll we'll do the tux and tails for the, for the Thanksgiving. Congratulations. I would have figured it out. Like, just think through this. Yeah.

Nathaniel. Yeah. I don't have anything to add. That sounds good. Okay. Alright. Secular says, remind your husband that families have their own traditions. If he wants to entertain his family in grand style, he's entitled to do that, and they probably expect it. You think they you you think this guy's overdoing it all? Like, do you think maybe his family's like that? And maybe they would think less of him if he didn't do it. Yeah. I think that's just what they're they're used to. That's what mom did. Yeah. Yeah. And and they're they're used to someone being stressed and saying, oh, the biscuits are a little overcooked, and, like, don't worry. It's alright. We like it. I mean, that's just that's just normal to them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's true. And, like, the guy didn't choose the family he grew up in. He didn't choose his mom. And so, you know, whatever. You just get comfortable with that kind of thing. Yep. Okay.

It says and they probably expect it. However, he has no right to impose his style of entertaining on your family because it's not fair to you or them. Because you're not going to change him, compromise by divvying up the entertaining, you do yours, and he should do his. Yeah. Three for three. I

I is that gonna work? Like, you let is the impression that that not these two families aren't gonna be together at the same time? Because it's not like you could have the slob the slob in the living room and then the tails in the dining area. That feels antagonistic. I I think, generally, families tend to be at one or the other side.

I mean, they might once in a while get together. But Yeah. Generally, I would see how that would work. Okay? Okay. I mean, I mean, you could at least yeah. No. You could invite them both and just say, hey. Look.

Look. Marian's it's Marian's holiday. You know how it is. We're we're gonna eat pizza and burp in the living room. You if you don't wanna come, it's fine. Like and then they'll just self select. Yeah. Yeah. Because we we we have we do up Mother's Day real big, and we just recently started inviting, like, our son in law's parents Yeah. To come. And and we just tell them, hey. Here's what it is. You know? If you can't come, great. Whatever. But just so you know, this is what the expectation their expectation is to be tampered. Yeah. Pampered. Excuse me. But just so you know, we're gonna go over the top and be weird, you know, and it's just goofy and we're having fun. Yeah. And they they they love it. You know? It's Yeah. Nothing like their normal dinners, but, well, not for our

moms either. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. So, key theme here is just, let's just talk talk with folks. Well, first of all, stop dating married men. That was that's not part of the key themes. But secondly, look, just to just talk to some people. Just be open about it and then figure out a way to support each other. Hey. You've been listening to live from the Path. We really do appreciate you hanging out with us tonight. Unless you're Brian Houston. In which case, boy, I feel like you've got other stuff to focus on. This you should not be listening to the podcast. But, if you got any feedback for us, please,

call or text the Life From The Path Bob Eisenhower complaint line, (515) 517-0085. That's (515) 517-0085. We would love to hear from you. If you wanna buy a house from Bob, now is a good time, I think. I don't know anything about it, but, he's always a good dude to deal with. You can get ahold of Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team. They're easy to work with and hard to beat. I know don't what our plans are for next week, but we'll do our best to be in studio. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.