Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the Path. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston proper. Did. And we talk we okay. We didn't quite talk about it. I thought it was implied that you were not to make that noise.

I don't know why I didn't catch on. She seemed like the right thing to do. I mean, it didn't get plenty we're talking to Howard Dean. Right? That I mean, that got plenty of play when it happened. You know that they had a poll I don't know why this is coming to me right now, but they did a poll of, like, where, teenagers spend most of their time online. Anybody wanna guess? Discord. Discord is Ben's guess. Nathaniel. YouTube. YouTube. Yeah. YouTube. It's gotta be the YouTube. Yeah. It's it's definitely YouTube. Like, hands down,

like beating the pants off social media. Like, 95%. Yeah. I've I've read something about that recently too that the yeah. They just don't care about social media. Maybe they're smart. Anyway, that's where you'd see that video of Howard Dean going, yeah. Yeah. I saw an article about like the if you ask a junior hire what what he wants to be when he grows up, he's most likely to say a YouTuber.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make the difference. I've had multiple kids tell me that they have full plans to be a YouTuber. Remember when it used to be like a play professional football or something and now they're like, nah. I just wanna be on YouTube. I know. Actually, I was convicted about that because I'm talking to I mean, I'm yelling at these kids like, look. That's not a legit job. You know? But, like, no one told me that when I was you know, thought I was gonna play on the bulls or whatever when I was six, white, and living in an apartment building. And so, like, no one crushed my dreams. I got this. Hey, man. Steve's shoes. Steve Kerr and John Paxton eventually, you know, they made it to the NBA. Yeah. They could be you. I mean, if if the whole world if the whole world of basketball, if they say, like, 2% of people even have a chance at the pros, the white guy in the apartment building has gotta be somewhere down the point o o six. I mean yeah. Yeah. The YouTube's it, I I I have some some YouTube videos on fasting that just gone crazy. Right? And I thought to myself, I'm gonna make another little thing like that, just a little series of short little videos. And today, like, this is how I do things. I slap things together and say, yeah. Yeah. If I put some more time in it, it could have been really good probably. Yeah. But I did like six little videos on on short term mission trips, how to plan a short term mission trip, you know, and Yeah. I just kinda, you know, I didn't like write a script or anything. I just kinda said, yeah, do this. And I cut it into six pieces.

Then I looked at it and thought, this might be an embarrassment. But then you went forward. But that is still there. It's on there right now. Yeah. You hit publish. Someone already liked someone liked it within five minutes. Like, woah. I'm a YouTube sensation. Told Four views. So there's a so so Caps for Steel Steel does awesome. It's got, like, 1,200,000 views. Yes. And so I told I told some of the some kids that I was teaching in class and, like, wow. Over a million views. And I'm like, do not look at the other thousand videos we put out that have, like, 50 views or less Yeah. Which is the rest of them. Yeah. The stuff with actual content. Yeah. The stuff. Stuff that's important to me. I'd like to define my life by nothing. Yeah. Caps for sale. Fourteen fourteen people watched the show last week. But we got some good monkey sounds.

Caps for sale. Alright. You're listening to live from the path. Here's what we have going on the show this this evening. I I'm gonna propose something about marriages that I've been that I have been I I don't know. I that I'm flirting with over the last

number of weeks. And it has to do with what it what it means for the woman to be a helper. Uh-huh. And and

I think I think my my my my running theory is well, I think a lot of times the belief is that that reference is some some indication of a subservience, between women and men. I think it is far more an indication of a man's frailty than it is an indication of, than trying to speak something about

a lady. And so but I'll I'll I'll I'll unpack that. I always thought it was kind of a laziness thing because Adam named the animals, god's like, you're not gonna clean up all that poop. You're gonna need help. That's five one five five one seven zero zero eight five. Women were created to shovel poop. I'm just saying he needed he needed help. I don't know why we're not tearing up the YouTube We should be at the We're sensation. Attention column. We should be nailing it.

Oh, okay. I can't wait till they take that one out of context the next time you run for some kind of political office or win an award. Boy, dad has just done such great work in Africa through missions except for this one time. Yeah. I I've actually thought that before. If I ever ran for something, you could scour these. I've said so many things. Oh. They're taken out of context would be so terrible. That ain't no kidding. We'd have to torch this dinner. Are we gonna torch it? I'm burning to the ground. Yep. Yep. There's that. We don't even have an amount of time to scrub all this stuff up and not yeah. It's there. You used by the time actually, we should make people sign something when they come in here. It's like, look. You're agreeing that you're not gonna run for political office. We had a couple of people running for political office in here. Yeah. Yeah. I don't you never heard hi nor hair of Dave Funk. No. His downfall began right here. Yeah. That was funny. Yeah. We we tried

I don't know if you ever listened to that show, but, like, we had a politics. It's like with the first five shows we did, and we invited Dave Funk to come in. And, like, I don't remember what he was running for, but, like, we started asking him, like, which other politicians smell like, literally smell bad, and he would not say. And, we kinda pressed the matter. Like, it was the most important thing going on. Oh, to know what he was thinking at that time. Oh, he was mad at somebody. Thought it was an exclusive city. We scheduled this. But he was so mad. Yeah.

Look at these jackwagons. Oh. Okay. Anyway, so I'd like I I've I've got that going on. What what else? Is there oh, I read something about the James Webb Telescope. Mhmm. And this was from mindmatters.ai. Mindmatters news. And the the title of the article was James Webb Space Telescope Shows Big Bang Didn't Happen, question mark, and then wait.

And I I did this was it was a super interesting article, and I I I think there's a there's some scientific humility in it, which I think we can appreciate Mhmm. Which although sometimes from a Christian perspective, I do feel like people put their heads in the sand as if the the lord cannot be king over the the science, like science being a way of which humans are trying to categorize and

find a tangible way to understand what God has done. And so we don't have to run from it, but like, I think one of the one of the things that we often run into is that, like, this lacks humility. It acts like we've got the whole thing figured out. And, like, people who who acknowledge the existence of god at least have got one perspective correct, which is this whole thing feels like we probably don't have it all under control. Like, we've not figured out all the things quite yet. Like, there's a built in humility to believe even in in god. And so, anyway, I thought the the article was kind of interesting in that regard. So maybe I'll share a little bit of that. Yeah. I think we should run through that, and then two more topics of interest.

One, we're gonna run the room, and we wanna know two, like, non Christian, non fiction books that that honestly did something for your faith. K. So, like, just be thinking on it like two non Christian or two non Christian. Two non fiction Christian books that you thought actually made a difference. Like, if you if if someone asked you, hey. I I do my normal bible study, and I feel like I'm praying. I'm nailing this thing, and, like, for some reason, I I need a little jump start, a little something, you know, what would you recommend? So be thinking about that. Okay. And number two, I wanna talk about

getting into spiritual disciplines. Yep. Like, what that looks like, like really practically what it looks like. Right? Like, you know, whether we're talking about prayer or reading your bible or whatever, like, if you wanted to start it, what you would expect and, like, some some reasonable, like, aspirations for you to set so that you don't get so disappointed by day three that you're bailing. So

let's try to look at this honestly. If you're going from zero spiritual disciplines, what would we expect the first week to look like for you or the first two weeks? Like, so it's a sustained and a changed thing in your life, not just a, well, I tried it. It didn't go very well. It didn't do what I thought it was gonna do. I'm out. Yeah. Does it feel like a New Year's resolution That's correct. Gone wrong. Okay. I could hold 30 for two days and, man, that was hard, So I quit. I'm done. So we got a lot on the docket today. Okay. So let let's let me let me fire up we'll we'll see what maybe just something about this marriage thing.

So what I've been trying to to to work through in my mind and through through scripture and prayer and discussion kinda with other folks is is some of what feels like the inherent problems that is that seem to be universal for the most part in marriages between men and women. And a few different things have been been running through. The the first is it, like, I believe that god created men and women intentionally,

and they have intentional patterns. Generally speaking, like all these are generalities. There's always going to be some some things where you're like, well, doesn't match my wife or that doesn't match me. Okay. Congratulations, Ted. But like, I think there, it seems like men and women are, are designed in order to do and fulfill certain, certain needs and obligations. So as an example, I've generally speaking, find that men are able if, if a, if a husband and wife went on vacation and they left their three kids at home,

a few days in, you could find most women going, I'm really, I think about the kids a lot and I wonder what they're doing and I wouldn't mind going home to see them. And most men three days in would go, I'm sure they're fine. And and thought about them a few times, but didn't feel super compelled to, like, run home. There's or

most most men are it is easier for them to go do work out of town. It's not that they don't love their kids. It's not that they don't think and care about them, but, like, it's easier for them to do what it feels like, generally speaking, than than than women where it feels like they've got all the things are are tend to be on their mind all the time, where where fellas seem to be a little bit better at compartmentalizing. I'm not sure to what advantage, but like It's because they they can only do one thing. They're simpletons. Yeah. Like like, ladies will be running 45,000 things in their background or whatever, and dude's like, where's that screwdriver? Yeah. And the whole all all of life is on hold until the screwdriver's finally screwed. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Okay. So so there's something about that. And so, you know, does that does that help a fella?

And this is where you get these things get blurry, how you think about traditional gender roles and stuff. But, like, you know, to have a guy out in the field for ten, twelve hours a day or something, or, like, going to be day labor somewhere for weeks during the harvest time, and he he can just be gone and it's he's able to do it. He's able to do it because there's, a separation or a simpleness to his life. Whereas, like, ladies, if they're generally managing households, like, are responsible for all the stuff and, like, a dude probably like, would have a much harder time keeping all the things up. Guys are more likely to go, yeah, we just can't get to all the things, and so we're gonna just gonna we're not gonna do the other 10. Yeah. We'll cut we'll we'll cut some stuff. Whatever the consequences may be, we it ain't gonna happen. Mhmm. Okay. So so, again, generalities,

but but interestingly, both of those, although can be an advantage in in whatever in in certain ways, they create risks. Right? They create a risk that, like, how many time I mean, we do we we hear it a lot in our society, you get an absentee father. The ability to kind of simplify and and separate so that you can be a way to go accomplish something could be a strength for a man. It is also his greatest weakness. How many men can just walk away? They do.

And it's unfathomable to me, but there's dads who just just go, you know what? I'm gonna leave now. And they don't call, and they don't write, and they don't they don't work and send money. They're just gone. And, like, it's unconscionable to me, but, like, what could be an advantage to serve his family can also be a means of which he can leave his family. I think, you know, for for ladies, like, all of these all of these things that they're trying to balance and manage can be something that otherwise serves their family, but it also can bog them down so much that they actually become, they can't move. That it's too much. There's too much happening at all the time and they cannot sort it out. And so if you think about it though, the marriage of a man and woman together like creates the ability

to balance out those strengths that can present themselves as weaknesses. So, like, when the when the dude just gets too hyper focused, the lady goes, did you did you think about this? You got your kids are looking for you and we gotta fix the barn this week and you gotta blah blah blah. And he's like, oh, yeah. I got real hyper focused on that screwdriver. Yeah. Right? And, like, it's it's there is an in there is a It turns out she took it. Sneaky. And then I don't you know? And then then for for for ladies, like, every often, you need the guy who goes, I hear all that stuff you're saying. No. It's too much. We're backing off of it. You're gonna we gotta do. No. Nope. Nope. I'm gonna help. I'm here to help to make a quick decision, and we're gonna cut these five things. And if it's just for today, it's just for today. It's not gonna be in the world, but, it's a leveling out. And so the reason that got me to thinking about

the way that the Bible talks about the creation of men and women and that the man needs a help, a help meet, right, a helper. Similar to a word that frankly that that God, uses to describe God. And the the aspect of which both of those things are true doesn't say, well, man is the dominator.

The lady needs to come be his assistant. No. No. The lady exists in her strength to meet the man in his weakness. Like, the notion of his of of her being a helper to a man

is an indication of his frailty in those areas, not her weakness. And I I I don't know that I it's not that I've I don't know most most I don't feel like most of the fellas I know are getting this wrong, but, like, I I just it was something that I was thinking about because what it then does is it starts to reframe how you work through your marriage. You are a we. Oftentimes conversations become about I versus I.

This person is not acting this way. Like, hey. Hey. My my husband just can't you know, he he seems to focus on one thing or he just sits down. And now how can he sit down? There's a million things going on because you have a million things on your head, and you saw this lump of a man just sit on the couch, you're like, he's ignoring a million things. In his mind, he's not ignoring anything. He just sat down, and he didn't think about the other things you were doing. What you feel is his detriment exists for you as a wife to help him find balance. And similarly, fellas, like, where your wife is feeling kind of bogged down and you're like, boy, you just, I don't know why you do this to yourself. And, like, you're so stressed out all the time. Like, you are here to help her find balance. Your you together

are the we that God created and intended you to be. And and so I want you to think kindly about your spouses as they help you be the best you so that you function as the best we. And I and I so I all that is a is a rub that I need you to think differently about, say, some of the arguments that you're having. Is this person actually trying helping me to be a better us as oppo and embracing the fact that, like, hey. I'm here to help. I'm it's not it's not my gig. Like, I grant that I just I do this naturally better. And frankly, my wife and I largely fall along these lines. Like, she just she will have all the things on the mind all the time and trying to do all these things. And and every once in while, I gotta go, hey. Hey. We just we're gonna we're we're it's gonna be fine tonight. We're gonna drop that. In fact, we're dropped for a few days. Yes. And then but I have all the things to I'm like, we're gonna drop it. And, like, I often need her to go, hey. Did you forget about this thing and this thing? And, like, yes, I did. Yeah. Did not even think about it. One of them kids I didn't even know existed. Right. Okay. I I don't know. I haven't forgot. I'll go pick them up, though. Okay. What's the name? So

Get in you. I I guess, like, lot of times, I think we run the risk of of then viewing our partners let's go with supposed deficiencies as if they're failing you as a spouse. But, like, I think God created

created men and women with these these needs for each other with an exposed frailty that that frankly you would not agree to anywhere else. Like, my wife has a level of influence in my life that no other nobody else gets. She has the ability to to to call me up or bring me down with words of which another if another fella just came up and said, hey. You know, I think you actually really suck this week. I would go, oh, screw you, dude. I I'm not taking that in. I don't have I don't have to. But, like, there's a frailty in me that my that my wife has the most power over to use. And similarly heading the other direction, men with your with your spouses. And so I I, you know, I don't know. I just, it's a, it's an ask, I think, to reframe how you think about your marital discussions. Anytime you think this person is failing me, like, I want you to start with, I'm here to help help them be the best of themselves

so that the we that we were joined to be through the holy spirit can be at its best. And so sometimes it's not, hey. You stink at this. It's going, oh, yeah. I'm made for this to come help that man be better at this thing or so that the we are handling this better and vice versa. And so, if we can reframe it that way, it's not everything. Sometimes you all just going to stink individually and you got to hash it out. But like, I just wonder how many marital conversations are being had where it's like an eye for an eye as opposed to a we fighting for a we. I'd say a lot. Yeah. I would say I personally, I feel like it's a lot. I feel like it's a lot of things where I I'm not, I'm, I'm evaluating

my happiness or interaction or satisfaction with my wife as opposed to saying like, am I, if I see something in her that is a shortcoming, am I going to fill in the gap so that the we stay strong or am I upset at her about the gap?

And and am I am I trying to help her be her best, or am I making sure that the person who has the most exposure to her to bring her up or or call her down uses that to do what? And I think and I think that's a risk, and I get it. You're gonna get you're gonna feel like you're gonna get burned on that. Like, hey, man. I I I wouldn't fill the gap and that guy's still sitting on his butt. Oh, yeah. Maybe. Maybe. It's not like I'm not saying you don't have legitimate things to work to. I'm just I'm thinking about how we posture thinking about marital relationships and those types of discussions and, and don't being not trying not to be personally offended and saying, look, I'm made for, I want this. I want, I want that frailty. I need it for my, for me. And I want to charge in when at her frail list, I'm at my best. Nathaniel, why would you say that you're so bad at this? Yeah.

What's the number one driver? Well, I don't know. I was talking with with my wife the other day. I said, look here, woman. I said, listen here. You were gonna change. No. I I so I asked her. I says I says to her, do you feel because there's something Ben said at church. He said, do you

be at your best when your spouse is at your worst or at their worst, I guess. I said, do you feel like I am at my best when you were at your worst? And she said, sometimes. A glowing recommendation. Yeah. And I said and so so she asked me the same thing back and we had a discussion about it. And then it occurred to me that we don't really have that many marital, like, spats at all. And mostly due to my inability to have a strong opinion about anything.

That's what's causing very there's there's little conflict because you don't have a strong opinion. Yeah. Because I don't care. Yeah. And I know that it and even things that she, like, wants to do, like, hey. Let's go do this thing, blah blah blah. I don't want to, but the easiest road for me is to just go do it. You're a man of convenience. Yes. You're like, it seems like less hassle just to agree to this thing. Exactly. I do I do believe sometimes that is true, but do you feel like are you able to say yes to that with a with an attitude that otherwise she can appreciate, like, he's here for it, not just I drug him along, but he wants to be here? No. Okay. So there there you have a Yeah. No. You have a rub point. Yeah. Yeah. The rock's been peeled away. Yeah. And there I am scurrying in the dark. Yeah. I'm just doing things. I I wouldn't even say begrudgingly. Just like, okay. This is gonna be the easiest, so I might as well. Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay. That's yeah. I think that's a rub because I think That's a classic dude thing to do though. It it is a classic dude thing to do, and I think it puts here's the thing is like, no fellow wants to feel like his wife is treating him like a child. But if you're gonna go, I'm gonna go because you said I could or you wanted me to go, and you kinda like Trojan along where she feels like she's having to drag you, you've put her in the position to treat you like a child. Yeah. This is where the dudes usually fall apart here because they're like, you know, I don't wanna go to the stupid whatever blah blah blah petting zoo. Except for your your woman has been thinking about this. Right? Like and she's like, the kids really wanna go. We've been talking about it all week. And then you go, I don't wanna I don't wanna go to this petting zoo. You know, but like, you have no alternative plans to enrich the children. Right. Or to take them out. Right? Like, you have not been thinking about it all except for when someone said,

we're gonna go to the petting zoo and you're like, I don't wanna go to petting zoo. You know, but like, you brought zero input to the table until something was it's like the you're the guy that that it's the the classic Hamilton phrase is like, they don't have any good ideas. They just hate mine. Right. That's a dude. A dude will wait till something comes across his path and goes, I don't like that. Well, what did you think about it beforehand? I didn't at all, but I know what I see right now. I don't like it. I'm gonna go sit down and think about this for a minute. Where's that screwdriver? Yeah. Yeah. I I here's the thing. It's like some of this stuff is almost comedic because of how true it is. Right? Like, stereotypically, like, people are like, you know, dudes are different. They got different personalities. That kind of. You know what I'm saying? I bet I could string about 98% of them altogether with one thread. And, like and and these are good solid dudes. I'm not talking about loafers, people leaving their family, acting terrible. I'm talking about dudes I know that love Jesus, and they're good solid guys, and they're just they have a level of buffoonery in them. Yep. Just just depends how the sun's shining. But that level of buffoonery is the same we've talked about this before. Right? That same amount of buffoonery is what puts a guy in a lab for three days straight, stinking b o, he discovers an element that no one else would figure out. Yeah. Or the guy that ends up fixing your car that was gonna cost $4,500,

and he's out there tinkering at it for three days because he got a $30 part but can't get it in. But he'll be over there three days until he gets it figured out. Yeah. And it's I and so I think that's one of the things that I'm like, I think we know this kind of, but then we just in moments, we miss it. Or, like, we or sometimes broad posturing, like, we just we just miss the fact that, like, can I appreciate how this person is formed and the the the role that they serve in the strength of our we, and then not and not get so kinda irritated when it doesn't it isn't playing out? However, recognizing

that, like like, I so Nathaniel's example, unfortunately, is a really good one. Most fellas do this. We're like like, especially with good, strong ladies who generally make wise decisions, like, you're in it's in your best interest to defer. She's probably thought about it more. She's probably chosen a path that, like, is a little bit, more cost effective and probably healthier. Like or is this is this good? Like, she just put time into it. But it's it's not it's not okay to just to put her in the position where she feels like she's your mom. Like, you still you're gonna need to go into those situations and be confident in it. If, like, if you're gonna say yes, then say yes with confidence. Yes. I'm doing it because you wanna do it. It was a great idea.

I wanna do it. I love zoos. I'm gonna stop by and pick up some 0.25 on the way home so we can ring that machine for the goats. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I I I guess it's it's not it does not behoove a man to go along with what his wife's trying to get him to do. You say yes, and you say yes boldly. If it's a no, if you you don't wanna go and you it's not the you feel like it's not decent reason why. Right. Then say no and say it with confidence, not like an arrogant jerk was like, you know what? I don't really wanna do that because you're a grown man. You don't have to act here's the thing. It's like, this is where I guys, I caution you is that, like, I to a man, every guy that I know who loves Jesus is very well aware of his buffoonery. Yeah. He's they they it's it's not like he doesn't know, and every one of them feels super lucky to have found the lady that he has who otherwise tolerates this buffoonery. But the risk that you run is that, like, you can't be the proper encourager to your wife if your only reaction is, this must be my buffoonery. Mhmm. Because because it puts your wife in the position, the very thing that you don't want, which it means that, like, oh, now she's babysitting you because you're a complete buffoon. You're not a complete buffoon.

Some of I mean, sometimes, but, like, you wisely defer to your wife when you know it's smart to do so. Great. Burn that in confidence. Lord, put her in your life and in your family's life to go do those types of things. But, like, you and when but if you're gonna go do something because your wife says, hey. We should go do this, go, heck. Yeah. We should. I am in. Like, do it with the right attitude. You didn't get bullied into it. You said yes because it was right. You let this you let this lady have this level of influence in your life because she should. Do that with confidence, and then aid and support and encourage and love and cause your wife to flourish with confidence because you should be. You should be doing that, and I struggle with that. I don't like sometimes I really hate what I look like when the way that my wife describes me. It's embarrassing to me. Yeah. She she talking and, like and then I often take it out on her.

Like, I can't believe you made me feel this way. I'm like, well, I mean, she's half right. I can't believe you acted that way. Right. You made me paint a a portrait of you. You put me in a corner here. Right. So, anyway, like, I I just whatever. There's a million things to unpack from from this type of thing. But like, the start is I I think you should appreciate what you guys what what your marriage brings, the two of you bring together for the we and fight for the we. Stop. Be be honest and careful that you're not just pressing on one or the other to get your own kind of personal selfish way. It's okay to have group discussions about things that impact. Like like, fellas, if you're a guy who, you know, is thinking about some overtime, don't just take it and go, well, am I gonna do the overtime because I don't make the bills? No. You discuss that with your wife. You say, hey, man. The impact of doing here's why I'm thinking about this. It's the opportunity we have.

What do we think about how I spend my time away from our house? What do we think? And sometimes you're gonna go, I know I know you I know you think it's too much for me, but I'm I wanna do it to sacrifice for my family. That's alright. But, like, it's still a we conversation, not just I did this and I hope she appreciates it. That sucks. Don't do that. Don't do that. Have weak conversations and get the most out of the relationship that God has brought you together to be in. Yeah. This would have been a good Pope style advice, Ben. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking before, like, it's a the the Pope seems too lofty. Although he's a real dicey character. You know? You just never know what he's gonna say nowadays. Although maybe so maybe that could be us. You were singing his praises when he when he got smoked in. I felt real good about him. Well, I compared to the other dude, like, it felt like he was more

not allowing the previous the previous actions to kind of dictate how he embraced the world. And like, actually, I will say this is and this is generally true about theologies and people who bend more

liberal is that it tends to feel at least like you're showing more attention and focus and love to people. But there is a boundary to it where you start to cause them harm. And I don't know. There's been some of the some of the stuff coming out of the old potpourri that feels like you might've snuggled that line, dated it for a while, and then also dated its cousin. No. Yeah. It's a it's a risk. Sounds like it went south real fast. A risk, sir, Pope Frank. Okay. K.

Okay. Speaking of speaking of things that would help enrich your life Yep. Like treating your lady better and not being a buffoon. I I know we there's a bunch of avid readers in the room, like, not me or Nathaniel or Nathaniel. But Ben and Dan, I I think turned a couple pages. And I was thinking today, if I like I was thinking about my kids actually, like if I was gonna hand them a book that I thought really made a difference in the way that I followed Jesus or really spoke to me in a certain way and I was gonna recommend it to my kids, which ones would I recommend? And I've read quite a few, I would say over the years. And then I thought, you know, it'd be really interesting to see, like, if you feel like like you're at a point where you need a little bit of a shove. You you know what I mean,

every once in while, you'll just read a good book about someone else's interaction with Jesus and you're like, yeah. Okay. Okay. I was looking at this different. Now we're now we're time to roll. Yep. So if if we had to go around the room, I just want you to name one. Like, what what would be what would be your number one pick to recommend to somebody that's like said, look, I just I wanna see my faith differently or I wanna engage with Jesus on a deeper level. And so what book would you recommend? We'll start with Dan. Dan? Yeah. The sad thing about this is I I have it all on my iPad, which I left at home after reviewing it thinking, well, yeah. I'm gonna look back at some of the books I read. Dan did homework. And then I did it in the trunk of the car. You're saying And then the dog ate it. This this book impacted your life so much that it is not in your memory banks on what it is? That's my that that see, that is part of the downfall of my personality. I am so terrible on details. I I don't I don't remember I remember about three authors' names in my life that I've read. Uh-huh. You know? And some of the titles I remember, and and I remember, oh, it's this book about stuff, you know? But I'll remember the content pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. But some of the important stuff like that, like like anyway, that that yeah. So so because I I I've read and and another thing, I do not read nearly as much as Ben.

I I'll read bits and pieces. I rarely read, like, a whole book. I actually, I was gonna say that when Mike said, Dan is a bit of a note, read a page or two, I thought, that is Dan. Yeah. He does read a page or two. Yeah. Or a chapter or something. In and out. Three. Yep. And then I'll go like, that bores me, and I'll go on or something, and then I'll I'll lose interest. I'll try to start another one. I have, like, six books I'm kinda half looking at right now, but I can't tell you a living out your faith, but I honestly can't even tell So you're probably off the hook for book number two then as well. Okay. Think that's fair. If I only had my wife here to compliment me and tell me, here's what you're reading, and you left it on the counter. Okay. Let's go for the dead ringer, then we'll go to the iffy side of the room. Ben. Okay. Yeah. So I would say this I'll tell you the first book that came to mind. The first book that came to mind was a a book called No More Dragons by Jim Bergen. And

Hold on. Dan nodded his head in his agreement. Did you read that one, Dan? I've it sounded familiar. Maybe. So I've heard things about it. Jim Jim Bergen is is a pastor at a church called Flatirons in Colorado, and I don't even remember how I got ahold of this book or why I why I picked it up. But the, the, the, the thing that stuck out with me on this one, and that made me energetic, it was the, the, of the book is, is like kind of recognizing,

I don't know, dragons in your life. And like one of the main, the main metaphors comes from the one of the chronicles of Narnia books where Eustace, which is he's like a real whiny pain in the nose type of kid from I think this is from the prince Gaspian one. And he ends up getting turned into a dragon. And then Aslan, the the the the Jesus type of character shows up and like, oh, and he turns into a dragon because he goes to, like, grab the dragon's gold on on this island

searching for the lord group. And and so it's kind of a punishment for his greediness and stuff. And so, anyway, he's ends up having an interaction with with Aslan, and he says, I can he turned you back into a human. But the way that he does it is he, like, reaches out the claws and just starts scratching away as a lion, the scales off this kid. And and so he stops becoming the dragon that he had become and gets returned back to who who he was created to be. And it's intended to be a picture of kind of baptism type of thought where, like, you get there's a there's a there's a rescue there, and there is it's it's not that it's not painful to kinda give up everything you've become, but, like, if you let Jesus kinda come in and tear all the sinews back, you can be restored to what he created you to be. So, like, that that's the guts of the book, and I thought it was a cool image, and and I'd read the the prince Kaspien book, and so that was cool. But, like, the reason it stuck with me is, like, there's he as a pastor, he starts kinda talking through some situations that, like, now you'd be like, well, yeah, of course. But this was, like, ten years ago, and he's like, we had, like, a transgender person show up to the church. And, like, one of his chapters was like, what do you even do with that? And, like, it feel it felt like at the time, it felt like such a such a contentious thing where, like, I wouldn't have any idea

how to handle this with like, I feel like I would handle it wrong either way too way too much one way or the other. And, like, he was talking about how this person was, like, in taking a whiz next to him in the bathroom. And, like, part of that chapter is he goes he he met this fella and he said and because he wanted to come to the men's retreat. And he met with the the lady dude, whatever. And he goes, I don't know. I don't know. I want you to know Jesus,

but some of the some of the elements of this thing, I just I'm not quite sure how to sort out. I think I think you can come, but we're gonna we're gonna have to keep talking about it. And, like, there was such an honesty in a guy not having to have all the answers to something that there was a there was a combination of, like, I I know I wanna show people and introduce them to Jesus, but I know there's something else here that, like, needs to be dealt with. And so like just the

boldness of an, I don't know, but we're gonna figure this out because this because Jesus loves this person. And there were a number of different things in the book that were kind of like that. And so anyway, that that one stood out to me because it where other places in in my life where I've listened to a teaching or read a book, it it emboldened me with some level of confidence. This one emboldened me with the belief that like, you you probably aren't gonna know all the answers here. You're not gonna know how to act in every situation,

but just know what you what what god says is true and walk walk forward, and you'll get that figured out. And so I don't know. That that one, no more dragons, Jim Bergen. That one was a was a good turning it was a good elevation point for me. I shared it with a number of folks. It's it's well written. It's easy to read. And I that one. I like that one. Nathaniel.

The Life You Always Wanted by John Artberg. And it's a book it's John Artberg's book about, like, daily life growing closer to Christ through spiritual disciplines. Yeah.

How long ago did you read that one? I read it I had to read it in college for a class, and then I reread it probably four years ago. And then for some reason in college, it just didn't strike me. And I saw it laying on the bookshelf. Was like, oh, don't even remember what this book is about. Let's pick it up again. And I reread it and, I mean, it jacked jacked me up. I was like, man, this is awesome. I'm gonna start saying the Lord's Prayer every day and I, you know, somebody

I was texting out quotes to all my friends. I was like, hey, check this out. The the possibility of change is the essence of hope. Yeah. I was texting that and one dude even, like like, went out and wood burned it. That no kidding. Yeah. Okay. That's pretty cool. So yours what what what was the name of yours? The Life You Always Wanted, which is kind of a cheesy title, but, you know Yeah. Whatever, Burke.

Hey. The Life You Always Wanted. Ben, yours was the dragon by No More Dragons by Jim Bergen. No More Dragons by Jim Bergen. Had a I had a couple. One of them one of them is the standout, the the number one for me, and that's Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire. Mhmm. I love that book. I've read it I read it once I've actually read that one. Have you have you read it? Yeah. Yeah. I read it a long time ago, like, I don't know, ten, fifteen years ago. And then, like, at a certain point in my life when things were going really, really rough, I picked it back up and like, it just slapped me six ways from Sunday on all kinds of things, and the power of prayer and trusting the Holy Spirit with things and letting God do. The thing that I remember taking

away from it was he was talking about, you know, they were trying to grow their church community or whatever in a pretty rough neighborhood and some dude come out of nowhere and just decided he was gonna talk that day and he let him do it. And the guy said like, you can't measure your church by the size of your Sunday attendance. You wanna know what the health of your church is. You look at the attendance at your Tuesday prayer meeting and that's how you know how your church is doing because you can win people over with worship. You can win people over with a fancy speaker but you wanna know how people in Jesus are doing. You should tell me how many people are showing to pray on Tuesday. And like everything that they everything that God built through those folks was done through solely through prayer. Yeah. And like yeah. It just it got me real fired up and

it's probably about time to read it again, honestly. But some of my favorite books have been books on prayer and just different flavors, you know, like the Red Moon Rising book that's all about the twenty fourseven prayer movement and man, I read that like

quickly, you know, if I like it, I get into it, I'll sit there and I can't stop, know, because it was just so cool, the story of the history going back, you know, hundreds of years as well as the modern era 20 movement

and we're like we're still having 20 fourseven prayer rooms because of that. So it impacted me greatly to the point that we do it a lot. Do you think those prayer books, because like that Fresh Wind, Fresh Fires prayer book Yeah. Yeah. And like, I was just thinking while you were saying that, why those books are such a draw to me and like, I think it's because it gives me hope that there are people that are doing this. Yeah. Right? Like, if there's one thing across my entire relationship with God that I've always struggled with, it's consistent

prayer that felt like I was talking to my dad. Right? Yeah. That it wasn't just to, like, you know, I'm I'm doing it because I have to do it like, I mean, I think everybody has those times when like, you know, you know god's listening, you're communing, everything's cool, right? But like, like, every day for x longer than four minutes or whatever, you know, then you're like, okay, you know, and then like you read you read what other like what the holy spirit has done when people like allow

themselves to be part of that and like just pray and pray well and pray often and pray like you're having a conversation with your father and not that you're just trying to, you know, check a list or whatever. And, like, so those books always give me hope that, like Yeah. See, it can be done. So what are you doing? Right. Right. I think I think I like them because they're they're not like selling something. Yeah. You know, it's not like the latest gimmick, it's not like, hey, here's how we, you know, reached x number of people and now you can do it too if you just do what we did because I tend to read a lot of that stuff. Yeah. I read Bob Russell's book a year or two ago. I can't remember, so five or six things he'd do again and five or six things he wouldn't do, I loved the book. Was fascinating. It was cool. But I don't know, like, shook me or anything. It was just like, yeah, yeah, I agree with Yeah. You know, good solid stuff. I wish other people would read this, you know, I think that.

But the prayer ones, yeah, it it it usually adds something that changes me in some way or enhances my my prayer life. So I'm I'm with you on that for sure. Ben, do have a do you have a second? You can't explain it for the same length of time. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I I have a yes. I gotta go quite a few. So Fresh Fruit and Fresh Fresh Fire would have been one I I would have reached for. There there was a book about it's called actually, two kind of in in the same area. One is called Blood Brothers by a guy named Elias Shakur, and he's a he's a Palestinian

who who like, looking for for peace between Israel and fighting for peace between Israel and Palestine. And and the reason the reason that one was influential to me when it comes to my Christian faith and and this this couples with another another book and I'm gonna I'm missing some of the title, but it's like Something Don't Shoot. And that was about a guy who was a police officer who or no. No. He wasn't a police officer. He was like an academic, but he was trying to solve crime. It was a crime problem and he's like analyzing crime.

And it ended up being a question of relationships between communities and police officers. And the theme between both of those books was people often misunderstand each other. Like, they're just we're too shallow in how we think about each other. Like, the between the police and local communities, like, communities were afraid that the, like, the police didn't have any respect for them and that they were just trying to dominate them. And so they were afraid of them and they had the wrong impression. Like, most of the police were like, dude, we just wanna help. And, like, most of the community members were like, you don't look like you're trying to help because they had kind of a misunderstanding of what everyone was trying to do. And same thing with, like, the background of, this Palestinian dude is that, like I mean, in America, Palestinian is kind of a rough word. You have built in assumptions that these are terrorists as an example. And, like, this guy like, this his family's background was they owned land, and then, like, when borders got redrawn because of skirmishes these were, like, way out in the in the they're farming communities. They didn't have anything to do with any of this stuff, and, like, borders move, families get murdered, kicked out, stuff burned, and, like and now what do you do? And, like, that's happened a lot in different places. And so, like, what seems like, oh, look at these people are just angry. Well, I mean, they've been angry for fifty years because you, you know, you killed their grandpa and stole their land.

And, like, that what's not universal for all Israelis and not all not all Palestinians are innocent. But, like, the point of the the reason those but I happen to read both of those within a short amount of time. I'm not quite sure how I got ahold of them. But like from a, from my faith perspective, I started to become way more patient and gracious with people because it reminded me or forced me to consider that like people are always more complicated than what things look like. Earthly situations tend to be more complicated because people are involved. And so I became, I don't know if I was super judgmental before, but like my patience tripled when it comes to like, I'm going to continue to ask questions and try to understand the situation before I go bulldozing in there with righteousness because like truth can speak, but there's a context of which it's being heard. And so I both of those books actually were pretty helpful to me

if if the first one was how I think about god. Actually, I guess both of those are dealing with people and with confidence. Yeah. That was shorter. I would have thought you would have said, what is it? Looking for Allah, Finding Jesus. Oh. You mentioned that book quite a bit. Oh, man. So and, actually, that one was within a few months, like, earlier than those two. And, yeah, same thing. That was a good that was a reminder. That that I love that book, not only because it's, like, super well done, and that guy's story is awesome. His his journey from becoming a Muslim and questioning and felt like Jesus was just after him. But, like, again, the belief that god is still working places that you're like, I don't know. Like, many times do get the questions like, well, isn't it all isn't this all the same? Or like, how can you think your religion is better than another person's religion? And like the the Muslim

conversions mold both of those as as great reminders that God has not given up, and he's still actively hunting down folks who are seeking him even in places where like, it feels like they're the belief structure is too far gone. He still wants the worshiper of ball. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so yeah. No. Yeah. That's a great that's a great one. It's a great example. Nathaniel, book two. Do you have one? It's not nonfiction, but I'm gonna go with the screw tape letters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Screw tape letters. Solid.

I here's the thing about reading name? CS Lewis. CS Lewis. So I've read a couple three books by CS Lewis. And, like, I I feel like I've had to explain this before, but, like, he he sucks me in with everything he says. Everything it doesn't matter if it's actually the right thing to say or not. He'll be like a blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, that's right on. And he'll be like, if you think that, here's why you're a dummy. I'm like, oh, no. It's like Paul in Romans. Yeah. He's giving me the Romans. Yeah. He's giving me the Romans. And, like but I love screw tape letters. In fact, I think I just read that in the last couple years. Got all the way through it and I thought, boy, this this screw tape's got me pegged. Yeah. Yeah. Terrible. Actually, his the space trilogy so, like, Narni is great, but the space he wrote three books called the space trilogy and it starts to interact with the thought of, like,

you've you have got a fallen humanity on Earth, but, like, what is the interaction with God on, like, other planets? And, like, there there's there's there's a part and then, like, book two where you're like, heck, yeah. Like, because you can see like, you kinda start to pick to pick together, like, what's what's what it's pointing at and some what does it look like for those things to be different? Like, is a fallen did the fallen humanity on Earth, does that mean other like, did all other creatures have to fall? If there were Martians, what are they like? How do they interact with a god? What what is their concept of a god?

And like, there's there's a few parts of that where just whiz bang, it just washes over you. There's a part in creation. There's a creation, I wanna say in book, like, five of the chronicles of Narnia. And it's I mean, I almost wept this description of like singing creation into be that that frankly is much more closer to like the, the, the, the that Genesis uses. We're just so academic about it. We just don't catch it right. But some of that stuff is just, it's just beautiful and it tears down, it opens us up to being able to see scripture with the depth that I think scripture exists

by allowing to see it through a fictionalized account that extends that. Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, those are good. My two, my number two is a tie between a couple and they're completely polar opposites. One is a Bob Goff book that I don't remember the name of it. Love Does? What's that? Love Does? Probably Love Does. What he's just a goofball when he's out there just doing like, he just have a has a level of freedom due to his

love and trust in who God is and what God created him to do. And, like, I don't know. It was just it's very it should give you a lot of confidence. Like, that guy that guy walks around as the son of the king. Right? Like, when he when he gets up in the morning and leaves his door, he's not I mean, he he he doesn't make any any huge theological points. He's not arguing like the finer points of our faith. He just walks out and then, like, lets god decide what he's gonna do for the day, and he's just overly ridiculously generous about it, and he's just out there doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And so, like, there's a lot of freedom in that, and and and and when I was reading it, I'm like, I just why why can't I walk out as the prince? Why can't I walk out as the the son of the king? Instead, I'm the one I'm, like, half worried that I'm screwing it up or, you know, whatever. I didn't hear from him or maybe I did great and he didn't notice or whatever. You know, like and this dude's just out roaming his prince Bob Gough, you know, as the son of the king and so like I really I like it's it's a good feel good thing. You need to pick me up. I would do that. Yeah. But the tie for that is like I I can't remember the name of the I've just bought it recently but it's a book of modern liturgies and like it's wish I could remember the name of it But like it's like a oh, it's every moment every moment holy. Yeah. That's what it's called. Yeah. And like the guy lights writes liturgies

for like going on vacation or folding the laundry or or changing diapers or you know what I'm saying? Like, just got or for loss of a pet, for the you know? And, like, it's it's like modern liturgies for, you know, the beginning of the day, the middle of the day, the end of the day, and, like, they're just awesome. They're just awesome. Especially if you feel like you struggle like, you're tired of hearing your own words when you when you pray, you're like, god. I have so much to say. My heart has a ton to say, but my brain is like, boo. Right. It says the same stuff. Your brain's a real nose picker. Yep. You know? And you're like, my heart means more than this, but I'm picking my own brain here. Yeah. And so, like, I I would really recommend that book. It's called Every Moment Holy, and it's it's full liturgies and, like, it it covers, I mean, a ton of cool situations in your life. Just even random stuff, you know, like, a a liturgy for for people about to act in a play. You know, like, and then, like, how to turn it turn it turn it to god and blah blah. Like, they're just they're really good. So those that's what I would do. Okay. Any any final book recommendations before we roll off of this? Okay. I got I got I almost kinda hate to say this because it's like super old book, but if I look back over the years, I probably used this book more than any other book in

my library, and it's because it deals with relationships with the five love languages. Oh, yeah. So I was kinda looking back at books I'd purchased in the last couple of years and I bought it again in the last couple of years, I must have gave it to somebody, you know, I don't remember. But it's so freaking practical and there's every new generation comes up that like needs to learn this, you know, I

probably think some of those principles through at least once a week I bet. Whether it be in my own relationship or as I'm talking to someone like, well hey, are they receiving what you're doing here? You know, do they get you're trying to say you love this person, do they get it? Right. You're speaking your own language. You know, so I I think it's pretty pretty practical and powerful little book there. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. That's a good one. I got two more. No. Yeah. Let me get me get list of titles, but you can't explain them, Ben. Okay. I'll get we we we just like a minute. Okay. So the rise of Christianity by Rod by Rodney Stark. That this is it's a great it's a great book to provide. It's emboldening context on how the early church saw themselves. And the point of the book is to try to try to say like, how did Christianity go from, you know, 11 dudes following a dead leader to the predominant religion over three centuries and it's it's service.

It's it's service. It's like living. It's a it's it's rescuing babies. It's treating women differently than the rest of the world. Treat them like it big was that the minute? Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Got it. Do I get another minute for the other one? You you puzzle. Okay. The other one was the gospel comes with a house key by Rosario Butterfield. She was a she was like a like a queer literature professor and was in a lesbian relationship. She ends up interviewing this pastor to debunk all the stuff that and and make him look like a fool, ends up meets Jesus and, like, has to split from her relationship, marries a pastor, now, like, she's this is her instruction on living your lives with hospitality focused to your communities around you. And

it's a it's a really she's got another one like the confessions of an unlikely convert that's also good. That was her first book, but this I first one is wanted I think it's Rosaria Rosaria. Yeah. I feel like I've feel like I've heard of this gal. Is she the one like the the the the kid inviting her over for supper? Yes. Like forever? Yep. And and then one day, like, yeah. Yeah. And then and then the the stuff turned. And again, like, all like, there's a theme to some of these books where it's like, it's it's just being reminded that all the situations where you're like, I have no idea. God's like, oh, we'll figure it out. Did I make that one? I'm done. Check. Stop. No. You're gonna take it. No. Know what it's it's I got it's all this So go ahead. I know what you make me do. Why do you make me live like this? You're like a one man bullhorn. Okay.

We're gonna we're gonna post we're gonna post the the recommended reading. Yeah. We'll put it somewhere. I don't know where to put it, but we'll put it somewhere on the social deets. Yeah. I'll get it. Stuff to look at. I'll get it out, but you guys have to tell me you have to give me, like, a quick write up on, like, why for each title. You need to tell me why you recommend it. Man, I that don't sound like something on my You gotta it. No. I feel like my recommendation is enough. Well, then why are gonna put a list out there? No one's gonna to come back. Nobody listens to this program. Right. We won't do that then. Okay. No list. Alright. Bail on it. You'll get half for listening. Seems good. Okay. Well, oh, last thing. The the space article. Oh oh, but you didn't wanna talk about starting disciplines. Oh, yeah. We better Let's let's save the space article. Alright. We'll save space article. We're gonna talk about so, actually, that falls in line a little bit with the because some of that prayer stuff that Dan and I were just talking about.

I was thinking about it today, like, every time that I've tried to start a spiritual discipline, are there is there what's what's the spiritual disciplines? Like, is there a list? Yeah. Prayer, fasting, solitude, quiet yeah. Yeah. There's all yeah. Foster has written quite a bit on that. Is it man contrived or like is there a is there a bible verse that we would go to and say these are spiritual disciplines? There's not really a no. No. Just a good practice thing by historical churches that the historical church that says, look, this is how it's done. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So anyway, like so we'll call it prayer and and fasting and reading scripture and and Yep. Meditation. Yeah. Yeah. All that. Yeah. Meditation. Okay. So so let's say that you say that you wanted to start one. Right? Like Yep. I I don't know how many times that I ran into people that like, look, I've just feel like me and god are disconnected, you know, and and my first question is is like, how's your prayer life doing? Well, your Bible reading going? Right? Like, all the things that would show that would be outward appearances or even inward functions of your walk with Christ are they're not there. Right? And so, like, your heart says, yes, I wanna follow Jesus and your the practice of your life is not doing anything to allow the holy spirit to move or interact in your life. Yep. You're basically saying, love you, Jesus, but the door is shut. I got this handled in here. There's nothing tilling the soil. That's right. There's no there's no it's like flat flat and air in there. So let's say that you wanted to start one. Now I've been guilty of this. I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna start praying every day. And then I think to myself, got this handled. And then I'll be hot dog. I get up at 05:30 in the morning, and I'm so tired. I'm, like, falling asleep while I'm praying. And I can't think of a whole lot to pray about. Like, I'm I don't know. I get a couple five minutes in, which felt like twenty, and I'm like, well,

I guess that's that's good. I'll I'll go read my bible. I'm already up. This would be great. I'll take care of the bible reading too. And then, like, I'll find a book of the bible and probably usually in the New Testament and I'll read a couple three chapters and I'm like, yeah, okay. Well, I did that. It kinda came back as nothing. Like, I I physically read it but nothing really changed in me. I guess we'll try it again tomorrow. And then about three, four days in, I'm out. I'm done. I didn't do anything. I didn't feel it. Right? Yep. So, what would you guys recommend? Let's let's let's go with prayer first. Let's just take this as week of prayer. Let's say that we wanted to start a spiritual discipline of praying and I'm not I'm not saying necessarily it's gotta be 05:30 in the morning at the holy but crack of dawn. Yep. Right? But if you wanted to start a spiritual discipline of praying, what's one, a good way to get it started? Two, something that you could expect that you should expect

to so that you're aware of it so that it's not a hurdle for you, like as it goes on. Let me try to answer by asking you a question. Okay. If you decided tonight that you wanted to go try out for the Chicago Cubs, like, that's your goal, you wanna become a professional baseball player. Yes. K.

What would you what would you feel like you gotta do tomorrow? I'd have to kneecap the first baseman and create an opening. K. K. One, hinder someone else that you might succeed. Hey. You asked me. But I'm saying I don't know that you're first in like, you kneecap the first baseman. They go, I wonder what Mike Foust from Pleasantville is doing. Okay. I got It's a long first baseman. I'm gonna need a team of larceny. You're gonna just that's a lot of Tonya Harding to try to get on first. I'm gonna have to start training, Ben. Okay. So, like so so, like, what though? How far off from the bigs am I? I'm you. I'm talking you current state. This is not a hypothetical. This is you. Oh, what? Tomorrow, you hit you knocking them out of the park? No. I got a lot of work to do. Yeah. You are you I mean, are you ready? Can you you know how to cut the you know how to cut the bat? No. No. No. I'm gonna have to hit the iron and get some skills and probably even start single a ball. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, you're gonna have to start doing rudimentary things. Right? Because you you go up there and start chucking the bat around and about you're gonna be frustrated because you're not very good.

Two, like, what else? What else about practicing are you it needs to be true for you to keep keep up with it? I gotta keep doing it. Okay. So one, you gotta you gotta sustain it. You gotta figure out a way to sustain it, but, like, what things help you sustain it? Habit loop. What is that? Habit loop. Habit loop? Habit loop. The Are you saying habit loop? Loop. Yeah. Got it. Habit loop.

What does that mean? It's like it's from another book. It's the power habit where he talks about where there's a routine and a reward and a a cue. Is that right, Dan? You've read that book? Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. Yeah. Where you the was gonna mention that book and and I didn't because I forget. I don't make a habit of reading it. Yeah.

The way they get into any habit is having a cue to do the habit, and then you perform the habit. And then after the habit is done, there's some sort of reward for you having done this habit. What's what's the reward? Like a piece of chocolate? So It could be anything. Whatever makes you happy. And, man, do you think that's well, let well, hold on. Let me finish out the the the the thing. We're gonna come back to this to whether I should read my bible for my own personal chocolate stash. So so the reason the example came to mind is that, like, if I wanna play professional ball, tomorrow, I'm going to have to start training. I'm going to have to get up and start practicing. I don't know how to do any of these things. And I'm going to have to recognize that like

for weeks, I'm not gonna I'm not I am not at an a caliber level. It's going to take some time. I'm going to have to be able to see progress in some way or another to like, personally, just some way to understand that, like, I'm I'm progressing. Two, sometimes I don't even know the confines of what it looks like to do a good job. And so I'm gonna have to understand that. Three, I don't think I can do it by myself. I don't think like you out cutting cutting ball strikes

or strokes with the bat outside your house for, like, weeks on end is actually gonna help you. I think you're going to need people around you to help, to provide encouragement, to see that they're doing it too and to learn from them. And so, like, I I think those things are applicable. If you wanted to start to pick up a habit of Bible reading, I mean, yes, you're you're gonna have to you're gonna have to figure out how to set aside time to do it consistently. I think going through the motions to start is fine. Like, if you were gonna run if you're gonna learn to run the bases fast, you're gonna have to start by running the bases slow

and continuing to do is what helps you get better at it. I don't even understand, to be honest with you. Like, you people who play basketball or baseball or something and, like, if if you're not very good at shooting, what do they what do they tell you to do to get better? Shoot more. Keep shooting. And, like, there's a magic in your brain where, like, you don't even it's not like you're consciously doing anything different. You're just, like, taking shots all over the place, and they just get better over time. Like, your brain fixes things in it. And so, like, I I think there's a level of we if we want especially something that is you're supposed to do habitually,

we have a false expectation that it's just gonna, like, like, alter the world. Like, you're gonna immediately understand everything. I in fact, I've been reading judges, and there's there were two chapters in the middle of Judges where, like, I've been doing a really good job kind of pay attention, digesting things, thinking about scripture, and I I lost two chapters in there. Just did not follow them. I know that. I read them. I read them twice, and, like, it's just not sinking in. I don't know why I can't seem to follow what's going on these two chapters. And it's frustrating because, like, I've read many a chapter. But, anyway, long story short is that, like, I I think you're going to need so a a trigger, you're gonna have to commit to doing it. I think you're have to be gracious with yourself that you're not you're not gonna have to you're not always gonna be awesome at it just like you're so praying, you know, just pray whatever you can pray. Borrow words from other people. It's okay to watch the baseball video and see another guy do it and then say, okay, I'm gonna try that. Borrow words from Jesus. Pray the things that Jesus is saying. Don't be upset if you don't feel the tinglers about having set aside prayer time. Like, it's it's not that you're saying I prayed for five minutes and I'm satisfied. You're saying

in my current relationship, this is about as much as what I know to talk about. I I just and it will get fuller and deeper the more that you're taking in other things, the more that you're interacting with God, the more the spirit will drive what comes out of your mouth, start saying stuff you wouldn't even realize was on your mind. But, like, I think that I think those that's the way you start. You gotta start it, but, like, be be okay with it getting better over time. So if so so let's let's stick with the prayer because I think all those things are true, but I think we need we need more solid specific examples.

Right? So, like, you say, pray other people's words like what? Like, how long if someone was gonna say, like, how long should I be praying? Like, I don't know. Pray the lord's prayer to start. There. That's it. Start there. As a matter of fact, I I would say, like, if you're not I don't know. What am I? Are you a pastor? Am I supposed to be helping you understand the ways of the lord? But, I mean, how long should I pray? Like, that's a bogus question. That yeah. But people don't know that. Yeah. Okay. Mister, I understand all cultures and have have patience for other people. I mean, if I was to if you're trying to do a spiritual discipline of prayer, I might've maybe you did. You're right. Okay. So, yeah, like I would've asked that question. It it doesn't matter how long. It doesn't matter how long. And I would say, like, if if you even wanna start shorter than that, you start with the Shema. Just do that. Do the know,

find find different parts of of scripture and you can you can pray that. Pray the blessing from number six. Like, or even if you if you have some song lyrics, like things that you like like worship songs that stick with you, pray that. Like, find a way to posture that in a way that it's a prayer, because there's a reason that that those words are sticking with you. And so, it it it's remember, you're not when you're praying, it's not like you're creating magic with your words here. You're just saying, I'm giving dedicated time and acknowledgment of and petition of

the the god who made me in the world. Yeah. So and and then, like, I suppose as you go on, like, maybe add a couple of those things together. Right? Yeah. Like, pray the Shema and then sing a couple courses of of whatever your worship tune that's in your head and then throw on, you know, some some prayers of that you're asking god to be involved in throughout the day or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. To help those conversations get started and go and, like, get yourself a base and then I I yeah. And and the most important thing is is, like, you have to keep doing it. Yes. You have to do it and you have to do it consistently. It's not because God's gonna be disappointed in you, it's because you're missing out on time with your father if you don't do it. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's like just because habits are good habits doesn't mean that they're easy to do. I mean, you bet you have to remind yourself that to exercise, you gotta I mean, sometimes you gotta remind yourself, like, I'm supposed to brush my teeth. Like, it was there's just things where, like, you could totally do something else. Nods in agreement. Yeah. That's a real booger. That's a deep question. But, like, just be just because just be it's not it doesn't indicate something bad about you that you have to remind yourself to do it. It doesn't mean you don't like it. It doesn't mean you don't agree that it's good. It's like you're you're a fallible human being.

It's okay to put have to put structures in. Actually, there's a there's a book by a guy named Dallas Willard called the spirit of the discipline. Also a great book. And he kind of talks about each of the different spiritual disciplines and and the value and things and and kind of along this lines, like things that you do to otherwise nurture those those disciplines. And like, it's it's okay to say, look. I I gotta box myself in for good things. That's alright. Yeah. Wasn't he super old when he wrote that book? Yeah. Yeah.

He was. Like, how old is super old? Oh, I like in his seventies, I think. He's like just a dude who's, you know, living a Christian life and he's like, you know, I'll write this book and then it was like the premier spiritual disciplines book for a while. It's good. It's really good. It's easy to read. He does a good job. Okay. So spiritual discipline, walking into it, we're gonna we're gonna that's our advice on prayer for this week. Yeah. As if like you have not been working on the spiritual discipline of prayer, I would consider it just as this is my personal opinion, like the biggest deficit, the biggest thing that is impeding

the difference between what you know to be true in your head through sitting through church and reading your bible and the way that you're feeling. I think your lack of spending time in prayer is a large source of that disconnect. Yeah. So I would highly encourage you to fire that up this week if you're not already doing it. And like, our advice is just that. It's just, you know, lines in the sand, beginning places to hold on to. If you feel like you wanna you wanna journal as you pray and that helps, do that. Right? Do whatever, but do it and do it consistently. Yeah. Yeah. Repetition

has got a bad connotation in our society. It's not it's not bad. The Jews wouldn't had a problem with it. Like, saying similar things over and over again. I mean, I don't don't get in a chant or a trance or try to call on your dead grandma to show up or something like that. It's weird. Yeah. But, you know, like, it's it's it's okay to repeat things. And and also, like, just just so this doesn't come up as a problem tomorrow morning when you have a thousand other things to do, god gets your first and your best. So, like, don't jam pack your schedule and be like, I got five minutes for Jesus today. That's your problem. You did that. You made every decision that allowed that to happen. God gets first and best and so, make room for it and and make it healthy. Don't try to ask god to bless the two minutes you gave him. You know what I'm saying? Like, you give him whatever he asks for and you give it wholeheartedly with a happy heart with generous time and, like, don't be trying to squeeze god into your busy schedule. If you don't have any time for god, then you're choosing that. So Yeah. Make move some things around. I'm just as guilty of this. Everybody gets up and believes themselves to be very important and have all these important things to do. And, like, you totally had you had half hour for sure in your day for Jesus. And then you tried to be like, I'll pray on the car on the way to driving to the store. That's lame. That's big time lame. Don't be doing that. Yeah. I mean, you can pray in the car too.

But don't be calling that your alone time with Jesus because you're also watching traffic, listening to the radio, and thinking about when you gotta pick up your kids. So, like, you're not you that's that's not good. That's not what we're after. Yeah. And and I would say along those lines, you have, you know, even five minutes of just focused time. It's not like you have to have ten hours here. No. Just first and best. It's intentionality. Yes. It's first and best in intentionality, and you'll be I mean, think of the same the same thing you would in your relationship with your spouse. How often do you look your spouse in the eye when you don't want something? Like,

you're just talking to him and you're looking him in the face and you're having a conversation that isn't transactional about the things that are going on in the house. Hey. How's how are you doing today? Like, actually, I I'll be Nathaniel's to be commended is to go home and ask his wife, hey. How am I doing with this thing? What a great thing to do. Yeah. What a great thing to do. After he said that. Yeah. And so, like, it's it's it's the the intentionality. Again, god's not going away. He gets if it's if it's not ten minutes, it's nothing. He'll drive it. You'll get a sense of what you can do or when you can do it, but like it's the intentionality of it. It's the focus of it even in small increments. And the thing is, is like, I think if you give them the 10 and you do it consistently, you'll you'll want the 15 just like he wants the 15.

You'll start to want the 20 just like he wants the 20. Right? Like, that will grow. That's how a relationship grows. It's just like when you first meet your spouse when you're first dating, like, exchange couple five minute conversations, and then a month later, you're talking for three hours listening to each other breathe on the phone. Yeah. And someone says, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. They lay the phone down, and you're like an idiot sitting there on the other end of the phone waiting for them to come back. Right? Like Yeah. That's what we're after. Yeah. You're like, I don't wanna leave this conversation. I wanna stay in this. I wanna know what's going on with the other person. That's what that will look like. Yeah. Okay. Spiritual discipline, prayer time. You ready? Do you wanna do advice? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta go. Yeah. We'll do one. Here. Life from the path. Oh, this is a good one. I'm a very successful 55 year old married man. I love my wife, but I have a girlfriend I also love.

I see. Both women feed my soul. Look. I hate that society tells me I'm wrong for having the two of them. I spend quality time with both. I make enough money to go on expensive extended vacations. I love my life. These two ladies are the best thing that ever happened to me besides my three beautiful children. Why shouldn't I be able to enjoy both of them without feeling like I'm sneaking around all the time? I know there are going to be naysayers who respond, but most women will probably never be the only woman in a man's life. That's it. That's the question. Why can't I have these two ladies?

Most what a skewed version, like, view of the world. Well, I mean, he pretty much nailed it. Hold on. Let me see. The two ladies are the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm sure. Yeah. You can just put a period and get rid of the rest of the article. Yeah. I got everything I want. Just me. Yeah. That'd be like saying, you know what's best for me? When I go to the store, don't pay for anything. Yeah. This is what's best for me. He basically just described, look, I get to do what I want. I get to take what I want when I want it, and I don't owe my full loyalty to anything.

So yeah. Yeah. That sounds pretty sweet that you walk around. Mention if his wife is enjoying this whole idea, if she even knows about it. I I don't even know that it crossed his buffoon mind. Yeah. Whether it how she feels about it or not. I mean, assumes, I guess. Didn't he mention sneaking around? Yeah. He is sneaking around. He's sneaking. Which means that she ain't gonna like it. Just tell her. Hey. You're just one of many. Yeah. I did what what was what was the phrase he said? I don't think most most women need to realize that they won't be the sole focus of a man's life. Well, most women will probably never be the only woman in a man's life. Why not? Where is he getting that from? Swinging Bahama Buddies who all act like this, apparently.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's so if I have to answer the question plainly, what's wrong with it? Why can't I do this? You certainly can. You seem to be, but it is it is entirely selfish. You are using people. You're using your wife and you're using this other lady.

And just because they're not complaining about it doesn't mean they're not being used, You know? And so They also don't know about it. I I bet the girlfriend knows. Oh, yeah. The girlfriend probably knows about the wife. Yeah. Yeah. The wife doesn't know. So really what he's asking is why do I have to hide this from my wife? Well, I mean, here's the deal. We have mister bold of the world wrote anonymously

into the Internet as opposed to telling your wife. I mean, what does that say about you? Yeah. You're leaving you're living a heck of a life. You're cowering in a corner, afraid of your wife because you know what's wrong, you jackwagon. Like, you were aware that this is a problem. That's why you're hiding it, and that's why you haven't told her yet. And so if you're if you're saying, hey. Why can't I do this? I mean, whatever this is has perpetuated your ability to be a coward.

So let's start there. Your measure of a man is left wanting. Yeah. The reason you can't do it is because your wife wouldn't agree to it. You wouldn't be married anymore. Right? That's the thing is you already tell her if if this would be fine. And the thing is is, like, as soon as your wife finds out that this is what's going on, that you're a wonton dude like this and causing this type of trouble, you're gonna lose everything you have you ever had. Right? Like, you're living on a very like, the most celebrated half inch of your life right now. And you are walking on either one more step, direction, and you're done. And you're really happy with yourself. You're really proud that you're getting away with this and you're pulling it off and you make big money. You just listed all the things that are eventually gonna leave you with nothing.

I'm sure that you're having some kind of physical relationship with both these people. You're 55 years old. This ain't gonna last that much longer, friend. Your money's gonna run out and not be able to buy you anything, and you're gonna have no one to spend the money on or with because you use them to the point that, like, they're not invested in you anymore. This is why god set up marriage the way that he did. It's like you're basically setting yourself up for a one one time use and throwaway operation, and then and and and then you're gonna be left on your own, and you're gonna go, yeah. That's why people don't do this. Yeah. Because you can you can take and take and take and take, and then just like Roadhouse says, until someone takes you. Yeah. Mhmm. Hey, man. This is the first Ghostbusters movie. We're like, at the end, and they say, choose your destructor. And you're like, two ladies, all the money I can handle, lots of rich vacations. And you chew like, you think it's the Stapuff marshmallow, man, something you love that is never gonna cause you problems, and it is going to destroy you. Yeah. Yeah. You're telling me. And these three kids you claim to love more than the two of these ladies. Really? Like, you're willing to sacrifice the stability of their lives and, frankly, how they think of women. You think here's the quiz question. Answer honest. You think it would not devastate them when your wife finds out that this is what's going on? Yeah. Would you love it when there's a dude doing this to one of your daughters? Yeah. Would you think, yeah. That's awesome. I don't know why he can't have both. Right. You wouldn't think that. Yeah. And and unless you think now here's the thing. If you thought now you're in a real pickle. Because if you thought that it would be alright and that your kids would be enriched by it, you would have told your wife already. Mhmm. And you wouldn't be acting like this. Like like you done like, you're you're the most sexually active eunuch I've ever met. You you got no stones in in the in the game here. But if you know it's gonna harm them, then you're being deceitful. And you're and and you know that. And you know it's a weakness of yours, and yet you continue to persist like a selfish bastard that you are. Yeah. I can't believe we entertained this question. Yeah. Let's see what secular says. Maybe maybe she's a lot more nice to him.

Dear oh, boy. Secular says, this may seem like a silly unimportant detail, but how do your wife and your mistress feel about this arrangement? You mentioned that you feel like you are sneaking around. Why is that? Isn't your wife on board with it? And how about your mistress? Will she be satisfied with the status quo until she's a senior citizen with the understanding that you will leave her a very rich old lady? It's not lost on me that nowhere in your letter have you asked for advice. I'm printing this because we all know there are married men in the upper income brackets who, like you, feel entitled to enjoy the attentions of more than one woman. But all of it demonstrates is that having money does not guarantee a person has character or class. Wow. Zing. Boom. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Okay. That's right.

Here we go. Last one. K. Dear, live. Dear, live from the past. I was married for almost twenty years to a jealous controlling man, quotes Pete, was emotionally abusive, which I didn't really notice, because I'm not confrontational. What? I would just try to make him happy and ignore his controlling behavior. Towards the end of our marriage, I realized how isolated I'd become. I pushed away most of my friends and family away. They didn't want to visit because of Pete's negative attitude.

Our daughter developed an illness in her teens that requires twenty four hour care. Her illness doesn't necessarily upset him. What did upset him is the attention she would require in the future. He would say things like, she's ruining our retirement. I was looking forward to having you to myself and not having to deal with anyone. This is when I realized how controlling it was. It felt like I had been wearing a blindfold, and then I could finally see, I immediately filed for divorce. A year afterward, I started seeing an old friend I'll call Darren, someone my husband had often accused me of cheating with. He did that with any man I knew, by the way. Mhmm. I really like Darren. I could see a future with him. He treats my daughter great and doesn't mind that when we go out, she has to tag along. Pete is now saying that if I date Darren, it's proof that I cheated on him. I don't want my ex to think for a minute that our marriage ended because I cheated because it's not true. Yep. So I broke up with Darren because I refused to accept him being labeled as the person who broke up my marriage. What would you do? I mean, not that. Yeah. Yeah. You're still letting him control you. What's that? Taking the advice of a controlling, jealous jerk face of an ex husband, I guess. That's weird. Yeah. Showing him.

Yeah. Nathaniel, you take one more breath. That means you're cheating on me. Yeah. I knew it. That's the type of thing. The guy, he draws a line in the sand. That's arbitrary. It makes no sense at all, and you go, oh, no. And then you hold your breath in the corner till you pass out at night. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you eat banquet TV dinners because you're out all night having sex. Like, oh, yeah. I got them. Yeah. Like, yeah. That's dumb. That's a real mess you got on your hands, though. I mean, you divorced him. It's you're divorced. Right? It's done. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, the other part's kind of irrelevant. Like, what she said, this guy was a was a was a Jack and Apes, and then so we are no longer together. Yeah. Pete is now saying that if I date Darren, it's proof I cheated on him. I don't know why Pete's saying anything. Well, what does that even matter? What I mean, if it's over Why are picking up the phone when Pete calls? Yeah. Pete tried to get rid of your your oldest child who has a 24 illness that I I'm assuming you're taking care of now. And, yeah, I I I would stop answering the phone. I would probably take Pete out of my contact list and be like, blocked. I don't take messages from Pete anymore. Yeah. Right. Like, I don't I I and I don't I've never gone through it, I guess. But, like, I do if you've divorced someone,

like, it's time to just be apart from them. Like, there's no reason to like, who goes through the really, really rough process of separating from someone to get some relief from whatever drum or or desktops you were a part of just to continue the drama on desktops afterward? Like Yeah. For heaven's sakes, man, I hate that you chose this option, but, like, if you're gonna choose the option, at least get the earthly value out of it by not continuing to, like, indulge in your divorce drama. Yeah. I guess I I I yeah. I can't figure out why you give two

two craps of a of a bird flock. Why? What Pete says to you? I mean, it just don't make any sense to me at all. No. Not at all. Ain't nothing else. Nathaniel? See you later, Pete. Yeah. Pete's out. Yeah. I mean yeah. I can't think of any reason to to continue to interact with this man. Mm-mm. Like like, if if he's otherwise abdicated responsibility for his kid

and is a otherwise a jerk, Like, yeah, just cut it off. He doesn't change your number. He doesn't need to know where you live. He doesn't need to know your phone number. You don't have to block him. Do whatever you gotta do. It's just not your not your problem anymore. Her illness doesn't upset her. She requires twenty four hour attention. He said she's ruining our retirement. You feel like you'd ever say that about your kid if they befell an illness? I mean, I really hope not.

Seems real seems real selfish. I mean, now here's well, here's I'm a say this. I'm a say this. I don't begrudge a man for thinking that. Like, if you had like, something happens to someone around you, I I'm not I don't know that I I begrudge someone that this thought occurred. You you don't say it out loud. But you don't say it out loud. It's probably okay to lament the fact that the opportunity of what your retirement could have been is now lost. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's okay to mourn that. That, like, you had plans to sit on the beach with your woman doing nothing, and you're like, well, I mean, dang, that would have been great. I think that's okay. Yep. And totally within rights, but like, to look at your kid and go, she's ruining our retirement, as if she's a third party to the whole operation. Yeah. I I mean, I don't know. That's pretty bad. I don't know. That should have taken Pete off the list of people to listen to even when you were married. Yeah. Right? You're saying crap like that. You don't like Pete. I just don't even listen to you. You don't make no sense. Yeah. Alright. Let's see what secular says. Segular says, what would I do? I would once and for all quit allowing my ex to control me. I'd call Darren and talk with him about why I ended the relationship and ask if he would consider resuming it where the two of us left off. If he was willing, I would move forward. However, if he isn't, I'd find a licensed psychotherapist who could give me the tools to avoid my ex's manipulations in the future.

Boy, she's on fire tonight. Give me the tools. Yeah. The mental tools. Oh. The mental. I was like, you know, hit hit the block button. I'm sure there's instructions online for this type of thing. Some people can't pull this off. Yeah. The fortitude. Fortitude. You think it's alright? Can you hand it to if you can't do it personally, does it matter if you do it personally? Or can you hand your phone and say, look. Can't seem to do this. I need you to block this guy. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just okay to hand it off. Yeah.

Block it. I need a new phone number. He'll find a way around it. Yeah. Here's the thing. Is that, like, that always seems like it's not it's not rash. They're just they're it's just an address. Like, it's just a phone. Just think of the think of the freedom that comes from finding separation from some sort of

joker that's harassing you. Here's the thing. It's all we're saying about Pete, and this is true about just keep this in mind about folks in your life. All you're doing is denying instant access to you. That's all you are doing. All you're saying is that, like, you don't get to to to instantly access me. Right? You still know where I live. You can still write a letter. You know, there's a thousand ways to communicate. All I'm saying is, like, as far as my phone is concerned, you don't get to call and interrupt me and tell me what to do. You don't get to text me crappy things. Those are just two things. And, like, Pete is gonna be like, how dare you cut me off? No one cut you off, Pete. You just have to drive over and knock on the door, and I'll decide if I'm gonna let you in based on your attitude today. Right? And, like, that's just reasonable. Yeah. Those are completely reasonable terms to set. If someone can't behave themselves, then, yeah, you get to say, you don't get instant access to me. My friends do. My family does. Emergencies do. This kind of behavior does not. And that's okay. That is a legit boundary. Don't feel guilty about it or terrible about it. So it's time to say, Pete, you're out of my phone. We're done with you. Yeah. You come over if you wanna stop by and talk to me about something. Yeah. But you best be calm because Darren gonna be here. Yeah. He don't like the looks of you. Yeah. Alright. You've been listening live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us tonight. We really do appreciate it. Now would be a good time if you have not rated the program to give it five stars, one star, two and a half, whatever it is that gives you the tickle wheelies,

and put that in in your favorite podcast provider just so we know that you're out there listening. If you wanna leave a comment, that would be great too. I don't I forget to check to check them. And so I have to go out every once in a while, and then I get the mounds of delight to see that you're interacting with the program. So please do that. That would be fantastic. Also, if you wanna get ahold of us, you can do so via phone call or text message at the Live From The Path Bob Eisenhower complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085. (515) 517-0085. That's the complaint line, and you you can use it for complaints. That's what we believe it would be used for. But if you have something jolly to say, may do it on there as well. And, you know, there's there's some things this week you could interact with. How does that the description of the the marriage stuff that we started out with, does that fit your life? Have you seen it play out, or we did wrong on there? We got the thing mixed up, and we're missing to speak about it better. Also, any advice for people jumping in on spiritual disciplines or maybe you're maybe you're kind of motivated to try one out and and hop in on some committed prayer life or or a bible reading or something. You just want to share that with somebody. We'd love to be praying about that with you. I know, you know, frankly, I need accountability for that kind of thing. I not not heavy. I beat you up or someone else becomes the replacement for the holy spirit. But, I mean, like, I just know that someone else cares whether I'm reading my bible or not. And actually started this recently. I'm feeling pretty good by, like, ten days or so in and rocking a streak. So, anyway, give that stuff a shot, and let us know if you got any thoughts, questions, or, concerns for the program. We'd love to hear back from you.

I believe, oh, yeah. Hey. A heads up. We do have some guests coming in. It's been quite a while. The the COVID took all the guests out. So, we're gonna start, filling the seat up with some outside voices, and, we're excited to bring those to you. In the meantime, be faithful to me, and god will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.