Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the Pathway. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston proper. I'm gonna be cut. Welcome to the show. No one can hear anything you're saying. I had I had to listen here. I had a mutual there's like a it's like a weird party going on in here. I'm gonna get cut and checked. I don't you're not gonna start working out, man. No. I don't like any of this. Call you diesel. Diesel.

I'm pretty I'm pretty sure I'm against it. Okay. Dan, was there was there ever a spot in your life where you felt like like you were at your prime cut and jacked? Oh, yeah. Wait. Cut and jacked? Like, what does it mean? Nathaniel, what Before I say, yeah. It's too late. But Nathaniel, first of all, Dan is in, but but he wants to know what he just agreed to. Yes. Yeah. So cut being, like, you know, shredded. Yeah. Okay. I was coming lot of fat. That's where I was. Yeah. And then jacked as in you got big Moose Kelos. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking

I'm talk Yeah. I had I had the bench up to 400 about Yeah. What I'm talking about. Ago or so. I don't know what it was. Yeah. In 1978. No. No. It was after Plant Pathway. Okay. Okay. That was in 1978. What year did you plant Pathway? 2002. Okay. That's not quite as old as well. Okay. Were you taking any supplements, Dan? I was not. That was all natural. It was con 100%. Not not even, like, I didn't do the shakes. I didn't do the bars. I didn't I No. It was me and Jesus in a weight bench. That's right. At the white Young Men Christians Association.

Alright. Hey. You're listening to life from the path. Hey. If you want to use use the complaint line, just know that I don't care when you were cutting jacked. I don't you don't have to send that over. That's I'm not even gonna get jacked, you said. Yeah. I thought you said cutting jack. I thought, wait a minute. Is that, like, like, drugs or something? Is that cutting something? Dan, what is cutting Jack? I don't know. That's why I thought You said it was such confidence. I assumed that that Was that something in 1978? That sounds like freaking wind. I know. Right. Yeah. Right. Hey, man. When were you cutting Jack? So I cut Jack a long time ago. He was just deadweight. Hair. Okay. Here's what gotta get. Hold on. We got we got some we got some articles to talk through on the show. Okay. A few things I thought

were interesting. First of all, five ways to know Jesus is calling you. Oh. Can you hear Jesus calling you? Have you ever heard of anybody setting up Jesus as a contact in your phone just in case he wants to get ahold of you? No. That'd be funny. That would be funny. I've heard people say they do that. They're like, every new phone I get, I just put Jesus in there with no phone number just in case he wanted to get ahold of me in that way. I thought you were saying that, like, as a gag. Like, you put take your friend's phone, put in Jesus as, like, your contact, and then you start calling them. No. That's bold. That kind of stuff will get you thrown into a pit of fire in the old testament. You can't be doing that. Yeah. But, like, people people be like, they just put Jesus in his phone, and then they're like, figured one time if Jesus ever wanted to text him or get ahold of him in that way, then they would do it. I've never heard of that. Really? We travel in different circles. I'm guessing. Most of my friends are cutting jack.

Okay. Alright. Understood. There's also I thought this was kind of interesting. There's did an interview with someone who, I think, wrote a book around 50 atheists that found Jesus. And this person did research as to why. Like, what was was their commonalities to them about their belief system and kinda how they came to meet Jesus, and that seemed kinda fun. So we'll hit that up. Also, Dan found article around that I think he's tagged as millennial click clickbait for Christians, and it was about, like My assumption. It was people who like, Christians who feel like they're not doing enough. Right, Dan? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, we're supposed to be missional. I'm not missional enough. Oh, I'm bad. I'm a bad Christian. Yes. And then there's anxiety and pressure, and I feel like a failure. Okay. Yes. That was the gist I got out of it. I mean, it seems kinda right. It seems like things that we might be might be struggling with. Okay. So I It's a run by a homeless person. Didn't do a thing. Today? No. I'm just saying that's the guilt. Like, oh, no.

I didn't. I stopped. Yeah. Of course. I did. I'm not one of those millennials. Not one of you guys. Okay. So, anyway, that's what we got going on the show, this evening. So, like, let's first of all, let's see if you know that Jesus is calling. Yes.

Nathan, are you ready for this? Hey. I'm ready. Do you feel like Nathaniel, do you feel like Yes, sir. You've you've had an experience where the lord interacted with you? Specifically called me? Yeah. Not like well, yeah. I mean, I suppose could be for any any justification you feel like it, but, like, you said, you you walked away going, I feel like the lord dress addressed dealt with me directly right there. Yes. Okay. What what was it? Well, there was this one time where I was living down in the land of Missouri. Okay. And for years, my wife and I were battling.

And by battling, mean discussing whether or not we were where we were gonna live for our days Mhmm. And what we were gonna do. And, you know, I says to her eventually, we were praying on it, and I says, you know, I'm really sick of praying. I went at you. I said, I'm sick I'm sick of praying. I'm gonna just we're gonna make a decision, and that's what we're gonna go with. Uh-huh. And

so there I was. Prepared to make decisions, big decisions on, like, buying houses and and living life and stuff like that. And I was at work, I was tearing apart a conveyor belt. And old old old Ben

was it you? No. It was probably Amanda. Yeah. Probably my wife. Yeah. Probably Amanda. Texts Megan, says, hey. We're selling our house. We want you to buy it. And Megan texted me while I was at work and I said, you know, I've looked in Iowa. There's not a whole lot of jobs that are around within my what what I do for a living that pay anywhere close to what I'm making down here. So that seems real silly, but I'll look online just for the kicks and gigs of it. And then it says it pulls up first thing right there, you know, conveyor belt mechanic.

Anyway, do I remember correctly? Like, part of the story was, like, the previous day or something, hadn't you turned off, like, job notification to somebody in Iowa? Said I'm done with it. Yeah. I said I'm I'm I'm sick of praying. I'm I'm done with Iowa. I'm living in Missouri. I'm buying multiple real estate investments. It's gonna be sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you you did you you all you took all human actions to go, I'm done with this. Exactly. Okay. Got it. Okay. Continue.

And then so I was like, oh, yeah. This is rich. Fuck. You know? And I sent maybe the sloppiest resume

known to man. And, like, forty five minutes later, I was hired. And, like, met salary expectations and Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then yeah. So and you gave me a real sweet deal on your house, so that was a bonus.

And I moved up here. Nice. And here we are. Here we are. Okay. Now I live here. And I don't remember all the mechanizations of that, but, like, if you look at the old Foust altar to Yahweh in our house, that's actually on on that one too because it was a there were a number of things that had to occur for us to sell our house that just felt very orchestrated beyond our control and things that we'd been preying on,

including, hey, man. Is there any way that Nathaniel and his family, you know, could be back in Iowa type of stuff? And so, anyway, it was just I yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Super. A real moron after it too. Like, you know, literally, I said to her, hey. I'm gonna stop praying about this. I figure, you know, after a couple years of praying on it, you know, it's just like make a decision, you know, because the the god obviously doesn't care about where we live. Uh-huh. It's you know, whatever. And literally, the next day,

it was like, okay. Maybe maybe wrong. Okay. Okay. I don't know. Well, so we're gonna see if You Should Buy This House is part of the article. So this was five ways to know Jesus is calling you. Number one, you experience emptiness, Nathaniel. I mean, sometimes. And then Jesus and you know Jesus was talking to you? No. Well, read the explanation. No. This is just calling to salvation or calling to a a mission or call like, what Yeah. What's he calling? It could could be any number of things here. Says What's saying?

Let's see. Jesus may be trying to reach you to encourage you to get on or back on a spiritual on spiritual spiritual course. Here are several key signs Jesus is calling you. It's time to take up your cross and follow him. It's like this person has a dice of random phrases that that Christians use. Maybe you maybe you've read this pamphlet. How about this one? Is there, like, an urban dictionary Christian dictionary online somewhere It just, like, spins a week. Oh, mad libs. Okay. So sometimes we begin to feel a strong sense of emptiness as if something important is missing from our lives. All Christians have feelings of spiritual emptiness from time to time. This is a sign that Jesus is calling you to follow him even though it may be hard to see it that way when we are caught up in our sin and loneliness. Yeah. Maybe I should wait for the other ones. I I have not had this experience, I would say.

I've had god call me back, like, from things and into things and into disciplines that I had stopped doing and but, like, I I don't know that I have an experience of of emptiness. I don't know. And I don't know the feeling of that is always implicit that there is a a specific god calling into your life. Again, I do whatever. I know people fall on different sides of this, but, like, if you want the holy spirit to speak, the the bible is that the holy spirit has spoken, and it the holy spirit may also speak in other ways to you personally, but, like, the feeling of emptiness, I'm not sure implies

that there is an extra biblical biblical message out there for you from Jesus. It frankly just may be it may be a consequence of you separating yourself from God. I think that sounds more right. Yeah. And so I was wondering if he was like, that's a prequel to okay. Now you need something, but there's an empty spot. Better fill it or something. Your first thought be in that scenario to be, okay. Where am I at? Where am I at with my relationship with with Jesus? You know, like like, what what am I what am I filling my time with that is obviously not producing anything that I feel empty? Right? And then I think it will probably bear out that you have separated yourself from God and you are not pursuing the things that he's pursuing. And, like, yeah, that does equal an emptiness for sure. Yeah. I don't I maybe I'd be hesitant in the belief that God sends arbitrary

emptiness. You know what saying? Like Mhmm. He may he'll act in emptiness within so, but, like, if otherwise, you're walking faithfully with him, I I I just I'm not seeing, like, biblical situations. Of emptiness. Yes. Yes. Now now, like, certainly, God will do things that we might think are are a human detriment to get your attention, but that's almost always in the presence of someone who is sinning against him and and refuses to repent. That's not the same thing as everything's fine and, like, let me send an emptiness so they turn to me. Like, it just I just I'm not seeing that. Yeah. Moses, free the emptiness.

I have a place for it to go today. Yeah. This can exist. I just don't think it's probably not even necessarily due to, like it doesn't even have to be sinful behavior. It can just be something about your life is not connecting, and and certainly God will meet you in it. And so it doesn't even have to be, like, wag your finger type of behavior. It's it's a good indication to to offer the emptiness back up to god and say, I I can't explain this. That's fine too. Yeah. But I don't know if I'd phrase it as this is proof that god is calling you. Okay. You feel a calling to help others.

This is the you know, Jesus is calling you because you feel a calling to help others. This doesn't even have to be a calling to the ministry. Sometimes this I hate when people say my ministry, you know, just in general. That's because they try to put everything under the flag. Yeah. I unpeel bananas. That's my ministry. My ministry. I help other people get easier access to the fruit of the banana. I bet people will do that in, like, all levels of ridiculousness. Like, yeah, I played a banjo. It's my ministry. Well, I don't know, man. I mean, it could be, I guess. Depends on how you do it. I've you know? And I've heard that too for, like, when you call something a a ministry, it tends to give it this shy of holiness, which sometimes ends up as, a justification to not do other things that you were supposed to be doing. Like no. Yeah. I know. I know. I've I've never I don't come to the church activities, but, like, my ministry is this, which is something else that trying to Like,

this is condemning because I know a lot of people in this area, but, like, I hear a lot of people say this, like, they're traveling church musicians. Like they just guests sit in at church, like every third Sunday or whatever. And then you don't see them the weeks that they're not playing. They're like, my ministry is playing in the worship band, like once a month. I'm like, you are have no presence in God's people at all except for the time you show up, pluck couple strings. You know? Like, that's not a ministry, dude. Yeah. Right. Like, you're doing something, and I don't let's call it something else, but, like, it's not your ministry. Yeah. It's not your ministry. That a gig. Yeah. That's right. You play gigs. Okay. So sometimes this is a calling to do more for others because you simply feel led to. The bible tells us now you belong to him in order that you might be useful in service to god. One of the greatest ways to display god's love and reflect Christ's presence is through acts of kindness and giving back. Regardless of your job or career, you work called to a full time Christian service. If you feel an underlying urge to do something bigger than yourself to benefit the greater good without any need of reward, you are an average Christian. Okay. I ad libbed that last part, which what they said was you are being called to take up your cross with a capital y.

That's not right. Isn't that, like, a given? I thought that was everyone is supposed is being called all the time to take up your cross. That's why it says daily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, they've she's really, like, found one knob on the radio and just, like, kept cranking on it as if it's gonna play the right hits every time. It does feel like, though, like like, this is the opportunity to, like, for sure roll that stuff up. Like, you know, you've had stuff come across, like, your your family's table or whatever. Like, a situation arises and you're like, yes. We definitely wanna be a part of this. And then, like like, you instantly think, god, thanks for thanks for letting us be a part of this. This sounds so awesome. Yeah. You know? Like, you get to you get excited and you haul everybody in and you go do a thing and you're like, what a gift that, like, God has given us an eye to be able to see when people are in need and the ability to help them and the excitement for the work and, like but it doesn't it feels like all this is coming from a a deficit where really it's it is like Emma said. It's just regular living. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Number three, career shift, sudden passion. Okay. But now Nathaniel had the same career.

That's true. Okay. And did would did you become passionate about anything in particular when you came into the Lift of Iowa? Like, career wise? No. Just did anything in general. Did you say I have a new lease on life? I have a new passion. Yeah. I started it I start there was a guy where at my old job, he would always give people thumbs up Yeah. Walking in the hallway. Yeah. And I said to myself, at this new job, I could be a thumbs up guy. And I did. Yeah. Let's let's see if this fits the criteria. Is your ministry? Yeah.

Was. I said this is my ministry. It comes out ministry. Alright. Sometimes Jesus calls us in ways we may never have imagined. So far, this is this is lining up my ministry. Sometimes Jesus is trying to get your attention by telling you that you have a greater calling. This may translate into a career shift. As Mark ten forty five reminds us, for even the son of man did not come to be served but to serve. That means that we should live lives that reflect our service to others. If your current job doesn't reflect this and you feel like something is missing or isn't feeling right, Jesus is trying to get your attention. This is a bold thing for someone to write. This is like, you know what?

I'm tired of being at the fry later, Dave. I'm out of here. Jesus is calling. Why are you giving me a bibles on the street? Right. Like, I just alright. Our calling may not be revealed to us overnight. So this is what I'm saying. Just go ahead and quit. If you feel the tinglies about it, the Lord will get to you eventually. But through using our gifts and talents in our careers, many of us discover what feels right and develop a need to do more. Okay. I don't notice that to be true. I've never talked to I mean, I probably say 85% of the population is like, do you feel right at your job? No, man. I go because they pay me. Right? This is not fulfilling to me except for the fact that it provides food for my family and puts shelter over my head. Yeah. Yeah. I you actually and I've, you know, my ministry work, I've justified this in my head is because I think to myself, well, I'm working here and my work here helps other people in support of what they're doing. And but, really, I'm just dragging more people into the cesspool of not doing anything that creates any particular value into the world. It's all like notional dollars and fake promises.

Insurance is like that. Yeah. That's true. What are we gonna do with everybody that works for an insurance company? Or you know what I'm saying? Or is there involved in ethereal threats that don't exist? Yeah. And then we're like, does do you find this fulfilling? Yeah, man. I love selling people insurance that never pays out. Yeah. I might give you some money. Maybe. Do you do you feel like the passions though could be, like, be part of it? Because I feel like maybe I haven't experienced it, but it feels like it makes sense. Said, like, if you suddenly are really interested and really passionate about something you never were before, that that could be god leading you down a path. No. Yeah. I do think that's right. I do think that's right. Like, you could find that you you are doing something or interact with the situation circumstance and just you're just tuned into it for some reason or another, and it doesn't let go of you. Yes. Okay. That could be. So but I think that the, like, the the point here is is, like, the article is framing it as if it's, like, here's five ways to know if god may may be here. Like, it'd be like walking into my house and going, here's five clues that your wife may be at home Instead of just going to talk to my wife and saying, wife, are you home? Do know what I'm saying? Like, the difference here is, like, it's trying to suss out all the detective work as if you don't know the god of the universe to ask. Yeah. Right? And and and to read scripture and to and to to bring your things to him opposed to going, what is the clues he might leave around my life as if so I could follow this chrome trail and maybe end up in the right mouse hole. Yeah.

And I would say, like, actually, this is an encouragement that I would have certainly for like, there's some people where it feels like they're what god has them doing is, like, super clear and direct for them. I feel like, Dan, your life has kinda been like that. Like, you knew Mhmm. And you're doing it. And nothing like, maybe the maybe the the different hows about it now might surprise a 20 year old Dan, like, all the different things you're doing. But for the most part, like, it's playing out like you would've Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mean, from fourth grade, it was clear. I was like, I mean, what fourth grader says? Yeah. And so I'm gonna do. Yeah. I mean and That's right. I'm gonna be the thumbs up guy. I'll be So but, like, if that's not if that's not you, one of my encouragements to be is is to, like, cast a wide net, man. Like, you just never know. Like, take for example so so this this actually does still apply to Dan.

Fourth grade Dan didn't go, dude, I'm gonna be I wanna do radio. I'm a be on a radio. I'm gonna do podcast, you know, stuff. And, like, we've been doing podcasts for a very long time. Nobody has any particular background or skill in the thing. It's just it's something that by casting a wide net, you experience things, and then you can yeah. And maybe it's something that god turns a light bulb on for. Honestly, we we just you know, I've been doing this a long time. We we I've been part of homeless things, ministry things. Yep. Right? Right? We're we're, like, the church is, but I wasn't directly. I was like, yeah. I'll give you batteries, whatever, but somebody else did all this stuff. And for the first time ever, I walked into a homeless camp a few weeks ago,

and now I'm going around mingling with them like, hey Mike, how you doing buddy? Yep. But there was plenty of options for Will to do much. I mean, I know their name and we know something, so we it's so I don't know, it's exciting because it's something different and we're building relationships and

we're seeing other people jump on board as well. We're like, oh yeah, it's cool for other people to do that. But to be in the middle of it, it's just it's pretty neat. Yeah. Yes. So so god keeps giving you new fun stuff. Yes. That's right. And, actually, I would say that, like, just being on the sidelines of of Dan's work as a pastor, like, Dan does cast a a wide net. Like, I've seen you get involved in all kinds of things. Like, well, maybe there's something here, and sometimes there is, and sometimes there's not. And so, like but if you're a person who's you know, it could be your job. Sure. But, like, to Emma's point, just thinking about passions and things, like, just try some stuff. Like, it it's one of the things that I always get that I get tied up on or or, like, I guess, focused on to encouraging other people is that, like like, I I sometimes sometimes the spirit is generally not gonna, like, kick you off your stool. Like, just go live live your life and do it broadly and interact with all kinds of things. And then I think you will see a light bulb go off or a passion connect or something like that. And sometimes it'll be in places you never knew that you were interested in or didn't even have a conception that you would be part of. And there's no reason to self limit that. Like, just be open to things that God can can do. And, like, again, cast a cast a wide net unless it's unless you feel like God's got you doing something super clear. Next one, relationships.

Relationships are one of the ways to know that Jesus is calling. Our relationships can reveal Jesus calling for our lives. Be open to listening to what the people in your life have to say, especially the spiritual ones, the spiritual people, particularly if you've fallen off course with god. Hey. Talk to people who you're friends with. Yeah. You're right. These people will affirm you. They are placed in your life by god so that you can recognize your full potential, and god might be sending an important message through them. On the other side, be mindful of people who take you off course with god. Anyone who causes a separation between you and god is not a good person to have in your space. Once we remove these people from our lives, we're a better place to seek god's calling for our lives. Do you have a bellwether on who your spiritual friends are? Yeah. Like like the we confuse this a lot. I was just talking to somebody about this over the weekend. We were talking about, like, the difference between Western culture and Eastern culture, like, where

like, you're you're the the words you say can be divorced from your actions in Western culture. And, like, that is just not how that's not the culture the Bible was written in. That's not how Eastern culture works now. You know? And so, like, when it all boils down to it, Jesus, of course, nailed it. And he's like, you know, good trees produce good fruit, bad trees produce bad fruit. And so like, I look at, at lives of people that, that surround me and like the folks that are consistently producing good fruit. Yeah. Those are the people I ask. Like, I've made plenty of phone calls with with calling somebody and been like, look. I'm having a hard time sussing this out. You know? Can I run this by you? Would you pray with me? Do you have any I'll take your advice actually because I think it's it's coming from a place that wants to honor Jesus and not honor me. And, like, it's super helpful. You know? And so, yeah, it's easier to tell than you think. Right? When you make it gray, it means that, like, the people that you're thinking about asking, you might not have good selections. Right. Like, you should be able to think of, like, in in your mind, come up with the top three people that you would go to to give you biblically good, like, solid advice, not, like, to pat you on the tush or tell you you're great or be like, hey. Yeah. I I understand you're screwing this up. You you know, it happens to everybody. Hey. You know? Like, you want the people that's gonna go, look. Look. You're not you're straying from what Jesus has for you. You're missing the joy that he's offering,

and this is where it's okay to to make a move. And sometimes even when it's not confrontational like that, it it could be just they're they're just you you know them as people who are aligned aligned with the spirit, and they're gonna say something that they didn't even know, God will say I actually agree with this one in the There are times you hear from God through people and you just go, okay, they didn't have any clue how I was even asking about this or thinking about that or or whatever. It's just I like totally had that happen a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's yeah. Being attuned to things. And, like, my wife has often said,

like, sometimes there's people around her, but it tends to be, like, a combination of something she read in the bible, and then there's a podcast or shows up ran in a sermon or something that wasn't aligned to the same thing, and then somebody else message message mentions it. And so then you start to feel like similar to to, I think, some experience that Nathaniel was talking about. Like, stuff just starts pulling together, and you're like, I'm just not buying that there isn't a hand in here Mhmm. Focusing on something like that. Okay. The last one is attending church. This is a way to know that Jesus is calling. Go to church. If you've been out of touch with Jesus like, these are all interesting because they see these Mike's right. These are defensive. I

was hoping Dan would do that. Calling no sinner. Tennessee bird walk. If you've been out of touch with Jesus and off course spiritually, you may not have been you're likely to be on beliefnet.com reading this article. You may not have been to church in a while, if you've been attending regular, you may feel disconnected from the service and message. But if you found your way back to church or you're in a church and a verse, a song, or something in the pastor's central message catches your attention, it is a sign that Jesus is reaching out to you to listen. Don't think this is just by chance. The holy spirit is active in god's house and sending you an important message. Why does this all have to feel so like Why does it have to be in the central message?

Yeah. Like yeah. What's the greeter who gave you something? You're like, no, man. You ain't the main show. I'm moving on to the pews. Don't talk to me. Yeah. I'll take that sprinkle donut, though. It's just like, it's these are all unnecessarily binding.

Right? Like, okay. Yeah. It doesn't have to be a Sunday morning. It doesn't have to be a particular part of the message. It can be. But like you, it doesn't have to be. So, like, in general, how would you help somebody answer this question? Like like, you know, like, how do I know what Jesus like like, most people are in an ethereal, like, question. They're not a full time pastor. They're not like a youth leader. They're not a worship minister. They don't, like, run a charity that that, you know, hands food out to the homeless. And so they're like, look. I'm just a sheep in, sheep out type of type of fella. But what is God's calling in my life? And can God's calling who's that dude? There's not a camera on you, so I needed to substitute. Okay. So so can so, like, can the calling be on my life? Like, we've talked about this. Can it be sheep in, sheep out? Right? Like, you're just the regular living guy and, like, it gets you on, you know, random things?

I've said this I don't know if this is right or not, but I was talking with my wife about this and I was like, think about all the people all the Israelites in the bible that you don't know their name. Yeah. They're just some dude, you know? They're just trying to, you know, be be a guy, live their Israelite life. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, what do you know about Enoch? Right? Like, he's he walks with the lord. He didn't do it. He didn't no marks of remarkability about him. Right? There's not like he cut off a top of a mountain or he led people anywhere. They're just like he walks with the lord. I feel like this article didn't even end up answering the main question. Because if you can go to church or you can be talking with a friend and they say something or you hear something and you're like, wow. That really fits with what I was thinking about or that feels like something I read or I feel like that's really touching, like, my heart or whatever. If you could pick that out, you know how to you can hear your calling from god.

Like Yeah. Right. If you have the spiritual eyes to catch that something's going on, then you already have all the elements necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, when they're like, hey. You might hear it at church. But if you could hear it at church, you could hear it anywhere. Yeah. So I don't understand. Yeah. What what which well, maybe gets to the broad point, which is that, like, there's there's not a this is not a transaction. It's not like you do this thing and you'll hear from Jesus. And it's not necessarily that, like, if this thing occurs, then the Lord is beckoning to you. Like, I the presumption is that, like, God is always using the things at his disposal to draw you to him. You should be open to that at all times and be willing to believe that he's doing that, and then you start seeing the things that connect in ways that maybe you would miss if you weren't after it. And if you're not going to church and and not

talking to spiritual people and not doing all these things, he might provide a burning bush. Yeah. Yeah. And say, hey. Look at that. Doesn't doesn't necessarily beg you to shoes. Ask some questions. Oh, hey. So that's a good lead into that article we were talking about. So let's let let me let's pull that up. Let's talk about the guy the interview with the folks, 50 atheists found Christ. It says Christians rejoice when atheists give their lives to Christ, but typically, we only see the end result. Unless we know the skeptic personally, we rarely get a detailed picture of what brought about an openness to faith. An atheist finding god, unlike these stories of convergence to Christianity in the contemporary West, that's a catchy title. Oh my.

C. S. Lewis Institute teaching fellow and side b stories podcast host, Jaina Harmon, presents findings from her conversations with 50 atheists who came to faith. So here's a here's a couple of kinda key points. One of the questions was what were some of the commonly held beliefs of the atheist you interviewed before their conversions? I I I don't know. Any any thoughts on, like, if you had to think or or but what do you believe that atheists think? I suppose that's too broad of a question. Let's see how they answer it. Let me I'll give you shot at another. Are weak. They're you know?

Okay. Not atheist. I'm not a weak. That is the whole atheist thing. Their common belief is there's no god, Ben. That's what we're submitting. Yeah. That was kind of a weird question. Alright. They said, generally speaking, they viewed Christian belief and believers through a negative lens. Okay. Lacking exposure to genuine forms of belief, many developed their perception of Christianity through an unfriendly distance cultural perspective, which led to reductionist caricatures and stereotypes. Okay. That's not surprising to me. Like, they they believe something based upon a really they it's it's it's got actually, I would ask it the other direction too for Christians. Yeah. It's like your beliefs about people who believe one thing, act in a certain way, have certain types of relationships. You

you should know people. Like, you should be living such a life in which you start to interact with folks. And, like, regardless of how Jesus may speak into those situations, we should not be walking around with shallow or caricature views of people and how they think and live and love and all this stuff. Okay? But that's that's basically, what they're saying here is atheists have a belief about Christians. I actually ran into this. I was looking for an answer to something online on some forum or something. And one of the related

questions had to do with an atheist asking a question about Christianity. And the only people that responded were primarily other atheists. And, like, these were the most ridiculous representations of Christianity that I'd ever seen. That would basically, what they lot of them were focused on what I would say a very shallow representation of parts of the Old Testament and then a dismissal

of Jesus in light of the Old Testament. When when you say that's representative of really most of the population, they don't have to be atheist, but just just that they look at the church like they have no clue who we really are. Yes. You know, watch a Hollywood version and you'll be like, they have no idea. Right. They saw the Noah movie, and they're like, oh, crap. They believe in rock people. I mean, we believe in way crazier than rock people. Right. Exactly. Right. If you're gonna commit some of that stuff, let's put the good stuff on there. I mean, talking donkeys. You know? Let's see. They fan let's see. For those who had some contact with religion or religious people, they found Christianity to be wanting and unattractive. Faith was Yeah. We do that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Buva specifically? No. Not Buva specifically. Okay. It's a behavioral question. Doesn't have to do with your vanity. I didn't have a mic at that point in time, man. You just throw me into the bus. Calm down, Narcisse. Alright. You say Narcisse? Yeah. Yeah. It's some it's how he likes me to render it. He doesn't like to be called a narcissist, and so he goes he says, you should call me Narcisse. That's true.

I do do that. You got me. Faith was often painted as superstitious, delusional, and uneducated, irreconcilable with science and contemporary ways of thinking living. Christians were often seen as intolerant, bigoted, judgmental, and hypocritical.

Okay. We are some of those things. Yes. I like, we've earned some of that, but, like As are everyone. You're right. Like, it's we we just have a very like, you can go look it up. You can check us pretty easily. Most people are functioning off a set of their own personal Wiley beliefs of which you couldn't validate whether they're being honest with them one way or the other. At least the people you can primarily critique Christians with, you can go to the source of which we drew these things and go, hey. This is where I think you're falling straight. We're open to we're open to criticism based on whether we're actually living out the thing we say. Yeah. But, like, you'd have to read it to know it. You know? So that's the thing is most of those accusations are leveled without actually doing any research in it. Like Or at shallowly. Or or shallowly. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, that's where you get into the the combative

nature around, hey, the old testament laws and, like, those types of things are like, well, you're hip you're a hypocrite. In fact, someone does somebody mentioned that today. I heard someone say something like that. And it had to do with, like, I don't know, the type of meat that you eat or something like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There was a someone had brought this is on a work meeting. And at the end, someone was goes, oh, yeah. I'm gonna have a steak for dinner and goes, dude, you shouldn't do that. It splits the hoof. And I and I thought that was funny. But, like, they didn't intend it to be funny. Like, they were talking about something about, like, religious restrictions, and they thought this was something they added to the conversation. But, like, it's right. I I would consider that uninformed. Like, it's it's a point a point out of hypocrisy that actually doesn't align with the the way the biblical narrative is trying to talk, but they didn't know that because they were looking for a critique. I recently saw on on the Facebook some fellow was given a a negative review of a lawnmower company,

and somebody commented on his negative review of this lawnmower company. Would Jesus give a negative review like this about a lawnmower? I said, I don't know. I don't know, man. Yep. I mean, maybe it wasn't bad. Yeah. I mean, Jesus would go, dude, your your your house has been left empty. Your temple is, you know, is not no longer righteous. I mean, if your lawnmower was not performing up to par, I feel like he would say such a thing. He says like a whitewashed tomb. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Said interestingly, not nearly as many of these former atheists had good reasons to justify their own godless perspective. I can't cut the wheat in chaff with this.

Just imagining Jesus starting a pressure washing company called the whitewash tube. The harvest is ready. Get a different lore. And he shows up at your house and goes, well, looks like I don't even need to do anything here. Nice. Let's see. They seem to know the atheists seem to know what they were against much more than what they were for. I think we've had that interaction actually talking to some folks. Many had readily dismissed god and faith out of hand without thoughtful analysis of exactly what they were rejecting or what they were embracing. They simply presumed a settled perspective based upon what they had heard around them and the surrounding culture or by esteemed authority. Okay. I think I may have told you this before.

And maybe, hopefully, nobody from my general work area or professional life is listening at all. But I'm gonna tell you this. The world is a house of cards. It's a house of cards, man. Like, the people who you think got the thing under control, they do not. They just they they they just don't. There's there's there's far and it's not like they're not, like, in general. And they I'm probably one of them. I probably fit the bill. I look like I know what I'm doing. I don't. So, like but there's just a there's just a a significant number of people doing very important things in the world where you feel like, boy, those guys have it figured out. And, like, they're they're human beings, and they're trying hard, and some of them are exceptionally skilled. But in general, most of the world does not have things figured out and have, like, a solid head on their shoulders. They're very much, like, working often confidently within a confined space

of which is held up by other people who also, it feels like, who they believe are doing something where they know what they're doing. But, like, it's just the you'd be flabbergasted at how unsecure a lot of the world's infrastructure is, at how junk ball most of professional services data in, like, all areas, technology, financial services,

the the water the the Des Moines Water Works. Like, this stuff is not under control. Everything is there was I read an article this morning that there was a dude who was a janitor at some, like, scientific research firm or something, and there was a alarm that kept going off. He doesn't like it. He gets sick of it after, like, a few days and cuts the breaker. This turns off some sort of, like, crazy woolly mammoth deep freeze that keeps the temperature below, you know, whatever the Kelvin is. It's like a two Kelvin or something. A 100 negative 100 Celsius. They lost a decade's worth of work

all because this guy could so easily they even had a sign that said, hey. This is an alarm. We know it's a problem. Somebody's coming to fix it in, like, two weeks or something. If you want it, there's here's a button. You can turn the alarm off for a few minutes. It'll reset and come back on, but here's how you can turn it off if you need to. Like, it was it like, you know, guy wrote it at the office and taped it up. The whole world is is based upon handwritten notes at offices and janitors going, I really hate that noise and turning it off. Okay? And so I I I say all that to say most people's held beliefs

are not from considered positions. Like, just they they they found an idea that they either liked or disliked. They reacted strongly to it. Most of people's rejection beliefs are tied to people's other people's beliefs. They didn't like this man, their their mom or daddy or some politician they saw or something. They figured out what they those guys believes and go, I definitely just don't believe like them because it's the same blender. And if I believe it, I turn out like that person and I'm out. Yeah. Like, that that tends to be the depth of which people are connecting with stuff. And, you know, in in, like, in the denomination church world, people so many people don't I I see people, like, fighting tooth and nail over different denominations, whatever, against each other and and everything, and I think half of them don't realize that it was just that all traces back to, like, two dudes who argued all the time and made their own groups, you know, it's it's it's not even I mean,

we're closer than we think a lot of times. Yes. And and but we're like, I I'm out of here. You guys are are awful. You're Satan. It's just like, what? I mean, you know Right. Like, what? Right. Right. You don't even know that like, most these times, we don't even know the basis of why we're having the arguments. We just we took an argument from authority and I heard the preacher say this now. I'm gonna fight it. You know? And to lost who we met at. With that, you know, and It's true. I'm gonna fight my whatever Calvinist friend or whatever. Like, there's like, like, like you'll run into folks that'll be like, it's king James only. Yeah. That's the holy book. And you're like, why though? Well, because it is, but why? I mean, like, seriously, they're like, if you don't read king James, you don't actually know Jesus at all. Like that. But where'd you get that from, friend? You know? And like, they got nothing. But like two pastors ago, he said king James is a holy book only. And then like, it just it just stayed. You know? I'm gonna have to sort through Texas receptus in the complaint line for the next two weeks because you said they got nothing. They got nothing. Way to go. And it's good enough for Paul.

That's right. Paul used the King James. Yeah. So we're you're right. And so, like, I I think that this that holds that seems true for me, and it was true not just on the atheist perspective. It's true in Christians too. I got all kinds of Christians who are like and these are the folks who also use the online as a primary form of communication, and they're gonna defend Christianity in such a poor, ignorant way because they actually don't even know why they believe what they believe. Sometimes it's embarrassing. Yes. Yeah. Seeing some of the fights going on in the Internet, you're like I wish you would just stop but Right?

Right? Hey. Think about it this way. Think of how many by the end of a hundred and fifty years after Jesus dies, just or actually just go nine what's what's likely a hundred years. So a hundred or less, which is all the all the New Testaments likely written within that span. Right? Think of how many people didn't write a letter that got included. Yeah. How many other people didn't have a gospel account where we said, you know, that's worth securing? Like, it was a very small number of people that put this collection together, and all the other folks now have access to Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit. Yeah. And they're out there spreading the word.

Have you guys ever heard the the the the dude that tries to explain the existence of god because of a banana? No. There's a I I it's like a video I saw one time probably on Facebook or something of this dude that goes, you don't believe in god? Just look at the banana. He goes, look at the curvature,

how it fits perfectly in man's hand. Look at I I don't need a wrapper. God provided the wrapper for me on the banana. Look look at the nutrition that it gives me as I eat the banana. How can a god not exist if I have this banana? And then he goes off to go, and the giraffe. Just you think one day a horse just had a long neck and was able to eat from a tree? We should keep this. This is god. And I'm like, oh, man. Look at the banana.

Like, what is wrong with you? Literally, he goes, the curvature, and then grabs a banana's hand. Like, it's per it fits perfect in my hand. Cucumbers are from Satan. There's no curvature in a cucumber. So was a cactus. Like, what? Yeah. It's great. It's fantastic. Against me.

He's also, like, weirdly contorting his hand to hold the banana perfectly. Like, it's just like, come on, man. We can do better than this, can't we? Right. Like, we can we can figure out a basis of of of argumentation better than, look at the banana. It's freaking ridiculous. I mean, the giraffe, you can make some compelling distinctions about. But I always thought the giraffe was a great point. Right? Like like, evolution has a hard time producing the giraffe for sure. You know? Like idea was it to make it spotted, though. He blends in. Yeah. Actually no. Grace has a point here. You know, I I a lot of times you watch these nature programs, and they're like, hey. Look at how well concealed that thing is. I'm like, it's very obviously right there.

And, like, not only that, but, like, don't most animals have better eyesight than me? Like, they can't pick out the pattern? Yeah. Right. And most of them smell. They smell you coming, you know. They're color blind. Like, that's the whole deal. But if they're I guess if they're color blind, but they but aren't they they're not contrast blind. The color is what's is similar. It's like the blotches against the grass. That's what you see. Yeah. It's been right. Hey. That's a good point too is that, like, animals don't tend to be very discerning about where they're taking a dump and can be easily picked out. Hey. I'll tell you something else. Hold on. I'm gonna let this go. But, like, you ever guys like, they show those they're on the African Savannah or whatever. And sometimes, like, a a lion shows up, and everybody acts like there's not a lion there. The lion's just kinda trotting around, and every once in while, the lion will, like, take three or four steps and chase something away. It'll go, like, 10 steps and then resume eating grass. Like, if someone enters your house and is gonna rob you and you're you've chosen not to defend yourself, you're gonna keep running and running and running and running until you're, like, way far away and could safely do something. These animals always, like, barely run away and then just resume normal behavior just looking at the side of their eye. Don't worry. We've escaped him. Oh, man. There he is. It's just it's always I always thought it was the and sometimes, like, I watched this one where it got a it got like a wildebeest or something. Like a and, like, all the other wildebeest were running away. It starts to eat this wildebeest and, like, the others look back and go, oh, well, they they got 10, and then they stop also and resume eating because they're like, well, now we're safe. They they they must have found one. It's because they are safe.

Why? Because the the lion's eating for sustenance. They're not going to just kill everything they could possibly kill. Yeah. But maybe he's dead. Will to be. But once they got to eat, you gotta realize, like, the animals always hungry. Animals are not very often gluttons. Yeah. Like, they're they're not killing for anything besides just what they can take in. That's why they're not killing off entire populations. This is a lie. This is a lie. That doesn't apply to cats. Or raccoons. A raccoon is constantly beheading my chickens for no purpose. Constantly. It leaves the entire carcass body and the head next to it. It just beheads it and leaves. You see this happen? Oh, yeah. Like, you watched a raccoon behead your chicken? It's the evidence. Yeah. Yeah. That's what raccoons do. Yeah. Like the noise. Yeah. They don't like chicken. Okay. Alright. Well, I I will go ahead and take back the carte blanche statement of all animals don't do that. I'm just saying I'm fairly certain, though, that, like, lions I mean, they're pretty well known for, like, killing the things that they absolutely need. Know about the appetite of a lion. Maybe he can have two wildebeests in a day. The problem is you don't see that very often. As you just described as the wildebeests live in the savannah. The wildebeests shut the camera off after the is that the wildebeests just stopped because they go, oh, we got Jerry. We're good. Because he got Jerry. They're good. They were dumb enough to get Jerry caught in the first place. It's not like they're masterminding the whole thing. They're idiots. Oh, okay. So, boo, the the it's a solid point. Like, the Cubans appear to have the thought that someone may continue to attack me simply because they're they're murderous. And they're capable. Well, the lions are certainly capable. They are. Yes. It's what saying. Yeah. But but so you say there's a fear. This doesn't seem like a good evolutionary trait.

Like, the wildebeest at least goes, hey, man. Things are fine. But if we've you've evolved to the place where you're murderous, I feel like the with this this this doesn't seem the wrong direction. A hippo would grow a third twofer? You know what I'm saying? If the evolution Third twofer is what Mike the biologist,

just said to me, just really whiz banging a point down to me. Don't you think that a hippopotamus would make a third twofer by now? If evolution was real, you bet it'd have three touches. You bet your butt that hippa would have three touches. Like, the the the evolution always stops, like, just before it would be super useful. Right? Like, at the point where wouldn't you have become fully armored to be able to fly and then live off of air only? That's what I would I would would I I

think biological imperative to stay alive in your circumstances is different than having a genie that gives you wings. Hey. Okay. Well, tell sure a hippopotamus would really love a machine gun if they could just have one. That's what I'm saying. It'd be like, I got three tubers, and I got this AR 15, and I'm a take out all of you. But of course. But that's what we're saying. Like, when evolution makes its argument, they're like, yeah. We they they came out of fish or whatever. Like, the fish is just, sitting in the water, looks out and goes, you ought to be great to be up on that land. And then what? Like, thinks real hard about it and, like, poops out an arm or something? Fish is sitting in the sea in about two hundred and fifty thousand years. I swear I'm a get you. Actually Three tubers and machine gun. That is that is actually the justification I've heard around the draft. Right? Like, oh, it couldn't reach the leaves. I mean, like So it just thought really hard and wouldn't

it have it died out? So I wake up every morning and go, come on, hair. Come on back to my head. And you know what I got? Nothing. Because there's nothing that can do. That, like, in generations, like, my six generations for me, my boy's gonna have an afro and a girl's curls. It yeah. We're we're we're talking on gigantic scales here of, like, of how long evolution had to have happened. What that that is why the scale keeps getting bigger. They keep Right. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. But it also has to say, like, intent. Like like, the the brain of the fish would have to know that the leg was possible and then through genes and DNA passed down from generations, eventually crap out a couple legs because and and and get rid of his half lung, you'd have to have both lungs and gills. Yeah. No. I'm not So why would you ever get rid of that? Agree. Why would the gator ever go or why would the eventual buffalo go, man, I wish I wouldn't give them gills. I could have been underwater as well. I would have kept both. Yeah. Yeah. And why is some of them are so much better. Like, you could have the giraffes camouflaged, which are just spots, or you could be a chameleon who can actually change colors. Yeah. I mean yeah. And if you wanna look into, like, legit camouflage that's effective, you need to go to the ocean. Like, the the some of the animals that are or the fish that are completely able to be 100%

unseen, it's insane. Yeah. Like, it is flat out crazy. You look into camouflage within the animal kingdom is insane. So that's what I'm saying, is if evolution is actually the deal, like, it it's it's really not trustworthy because there's so many better combinations of characteristics you could have put together to get yourself the ultimate animal. Yeah. Because we're not the ultimate animal. My my flesh can be pierced. I need his shoes. Armor protective skin. Will never go. The old animal is a hippopotamus with three doofers. Although Like, the hippo ain't the perfect animal either. Wait. Is is it the hippo that, like, their tusks grow out so far that they grow no. It's a boar that That's yeah. Warhogs do that too. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You'll you'll have I mean, that can happen with a ram too. Like, that's just it just they it just keeps growing if it's not, like, rutted. Channels. But once again, evolution will be like, hey, man. Can you make this test useful? I feel like this turned into everyone thinking that I'm arguing for evolution. It does feel like I wasn't trying to do that. I'm just saying that, like, we're we're whatever. Yeah. I'm not gonna get I just like talking. Yeah. I'm actually I'm actually still open. I just I I I think there's a compelling thing to speak to, and I've not seen them. Yeah. There's I mean, it's insane. There I saw a thing recently that that said that, you know, if we're talking about are you are you distancing yourself from me because Nathaniel's gonna sit over here. He's he's evolutioning with that mustache, which is a huge mistake, obviously. Yeah. That's there's no biological imperative for that mustache or that man bun. That's the truth. Yeah. Nathaniel's the anti evolution. Mhmm.

Actually, I it was weird this came up because I was I legit thought you were about to make an argument for the biological imperative of Nathaniel's mustache. No. But I do actually think you could make a case that there's a biological imperative on hair. Yes. Like Absolutely. And so the loss of human hair seems in fact, I I was at the zoo recently, and I saw the gorilla, and I said, man, I could use some of that. Like, I got things to move around in my place, and that gorilla looks prepared for life. And I'm missing out. If I have some common ancestry with that, I really miss it. Look at him. He's throwing his own poo. Haven't I wish I could go back to that. I would sacrifice intelligence for that in a heartbeat. Haven't I got I feel like I've gotten more frail though. Wouldn't I have isn't it We actually have. To go like, to go higher. Anyway, it was actually around human frailty. I was driving this morning, And for some reason, what popped to my head was is that, like, the amount of effort that we spend rescuing children, like, kid children that cannot sustain themselves, elderly that should not be able to sustain themselves anymore. Like, it's

it's built into the vast majority of people that we look out and go, we should we should sustain life. Mhmm. Like, that that is a harmful biological imperative. It creates weakness. It ties strength to the protection of weakness. It is it it's it's it's the wrong direction. It's against the herd. Yes. It's absolutely against the herd. Like, it to for it for us to protect the weak part of our species is completely against biology. Yeah. We we we should not do, and it's an expenditure that we should go. We will be stronger genetically by eliminating genetic anomalies, but for some reason with with compassion and morality,

we go, forget that. We need to figure out how to keep them close to us and keep them safe. Yeah. That's just not how the majority Like, what what was that? What was that? I saw somewhere, like, somebody saying, like like, the earliest sign of, like, of, like, legit, like, human life is is is, like, a healed broken leg. Mhmm. Like like like, this guy broke his leg, was basic was useless to the herd, couldn't couldn't gather, and they bandaged up his leg because they cared about it. Yep. And and Yes. Original herd mentality would have said cut the weight, let that person die, and we will move on because we're nomadic and leg. Yeah. You're right. Exactly. Yeah. Get rid of that person because they're making us weaker. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The leg. I don't know about it. I don't know it. Eat the leg. It gets caught in between my two for

I only had the one in middle. Are they three for now? So one of the other questions was, did you detect any patterns to the circumstances that led to these skeptics to reconsider Christianity? Nearly two thirds of the former atheists I spoke with thought they would never leave their atheistic identity in perspective. They were not looking for god or interested in spiritual conversations.

So what breached their walls of resistance? In general, people are not comfortable questioning their own views until something disrupts the status quo. And in these cases, there was some catalyst, some form of dissatisfaction that caused them to question their own atheism or begin looking more closely at Christianity. Dis dissatisfaction could prompt searching for something more than our worldview has to offer. Disruptive longings can grow in someone as they look for better explanations to understand the world around them or their own lives. So I do think this part is important and why it's important to engage in the weighty conversations with folks, like big like, the big types of questions.

It's also like like, I think I said recently at at church, like, funerals are tend to be way more impactful than marriages because they're moments of which people can often, start to ask themselves big questions and realize that they're not satisfied with the answers that are at their at their disposal. And so I I I again, I think it's without, sometimes we get in our head, like, to evangelize is to go up to somebody, say some a fact about Jesus and then put someone on the spot and go, do you believe it or not? Hell or heaven, choose it. But, like, oftentimes, these are in like, being being friends, being kind people who help people talk through significant situations, circumstances, or questions in their lives, they can start to see a confidence or at least a basis for which you embrace the world

that they they they start to realize that their worldview does not allow. Yeah. Like like, evangelism is is is being the person that makes people wonder, like, like, what like, how are they so happy? How are they, like, how are they, like you're the person that brings a casserole when somebody's sick. Mhmm. Nathan, when's last time you made a casserole? I don't know. Okay. Those I've also never made a casserole, to be clear. Oh, really? Have you Dan, have you personally made a casserole? I have. It's been a while. Like a breakfast breakfast casserole? Breakfast and and, like, you know, tater tot. Okay. Yeah. Green beans and stuff. Okay. Yeah. Determine something to be a casserole. It's in a casserole dish. Is that it? Bubba, you know these types of things. I put ice cream in a casserole dish. What's the deli casserole? What's the

delineation of a casserole? Speak it, Bubba. This actually goes back to the ancient Sumerians. That's what I thought. Casserole dish. Okay. I stand on it. Alright. What are some of the challenges your interview subjects faced after embracing Christians' beliefs? Unfavorable cultural stereotypes of Christians abound in Western culture. Within that context, conversion in Christianity came at a great social cost. Nearly one third of respondents reported negative responses or rejection from friends and family. They found their newfound faith to be socially frowned upon, embarrassing, and relation alienating.

One former atheist recalled, we lost a lot of friends, honestly. Even then, our beliefs were very liberal and in some sense, closely aligned with atheism and with Christianity on all sorts of issues. But just saying we're going to church this Sunday or Jesus is God meant a lot of people hated us and wouldn't even talk to us anymore because of that. It was difficult. I mean, like, a lot of groups in like like, tie their whole identity to being like, yeah. They hate us because we're different. Yeah. And, like, is that is that, like, suddenly uncool now that you're a Christian? Oh, yeah. Right. Like, they're only in celebration of the their own differences, not differences that were otherwise would separate them from that group, which is, yeah, which is an elitism all of its own. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Let's see. Convergence story. Blah blah blah. Where do we go? Where do go?

Yeah. Here we go. When it comes to sharing the gospel with skeptics, what lessons can we learn from your research? In many ways, sharing the gospel with skeptics is similar to sharing the gospel with anyone who doesn't know Christ. The first thing to recognize is that everyone is unique. Just because you call yourself an atheist doesn't mean we can presume exactly who you are or what you believe. Beliefs are always formed and then held in the context of our own life stories. It's important then to take time to listen to individual perspectives to hear what people believe and why they believe it. This not only allows you to value who they are and what they think, it also unnecessary semi colon also reveals personal questions that are often lurking beneath the surface of intellectual objections. It gives you a pathway toward meeting people where they are. Yeah. So, like, everybody gets to this point. Right? And so the question is is, like, do you feel like people will get will realize that their current worldview will not hold the questions they have? Like, are you afraid to help them get there as if you're contriving it? Right? Like, in in your head, you always think that there's an organic way that they will just come they will run into this on their own and then they will come find you and ask follow-up questions because now they've come to the realization. But but, I mean, how many times have you been convicted through a sermon or, you know, just reading your bible or something? Like, where where you you came to a thing and, like, you you're like, oh, man. Okay. I I was helped to I was shown

where my thinking wasn't right or where my where it wouldn't hold anymore. You know? Yeah. And so, like, there's a lot of different ways to get there. And and some parts we bail a little bit because we think, well, there's no reason to really get into this yet because you don't believe the thing. You know? And so there's no reason to start like, even talking about individual sins. Right? When those individual sins are actually what's creating most of the anxiety and and trouble in their life is coming from the fact that they are continuing to separate themselves from God in this way. And so, like, we're hesitant to talk about it because you're like, well, there's no reason to point you to, you know, changing your life in just to to fix a sin if you don't know who Jesus is. But, like, some of that stuff is found through the exposing of this is what separation from god actually looks like, and it is producing x in your life. You know? And so I I think we we bail on that. I think I bail on that for sure. Yeah. I think, like, if it's coming from god, then we should you should be open to the fact that it can be helpful in somebody's life in some way or another. And, like, I think the maybe the one of the key takeaways is, like, it's just an engagement. It's an active engagement that says, like, this is needed. It's necessary. It is helpful. And oftentimes, what feels like

rationalized thought that people have come to is is is hardly that. Yeah. It's much more of this tied to emotions. And frankly, a lot of people's Christian faith is tied to like, the people who have trouble leaving the faith even if they, like, in their minds, rationally, no longer believe it because the their relationships are at church.

They have good memories going back with their families and church situations. Like, they did felt feel loved and cared there. It's I think there's there's that and then there's fear. But, like, a lot of times, remember, we've read articles about pastors who don't even believe things anymore, but they're still there because so much is tied to their cultural identity. And, like, I I want them to stay in the church, but, like, recognize that, like, people's behaviors, like, they're totally susceptible to human things tying them to spiritual truths that they may not actually even believe, but they're they're too afraid to give up those relational or or emotional aspects that are tied to it. And the same thing can be true for atheism. The same thing can be true for alternative lifestyles. Right? Like, they have they have memories and relationships and community

in a place. And, like, they may may not have feel strongly as they once did, but they built their whole life on this thing. Yes. And so, like, it's a big change for them, you know, to to leave the like, just like these guys were talking about their their community and their base, you know, to to do a thing. And and so, like, sometimes when you're asking people to, like, give up on a life lifestyle that they have or choices that they made, there's a lot ingrained in that. That's not just as simple as, yeah, you're right. I was living this way. I think I need to change it. But now they're talking about, like, separating themselves from their whole life. Like, it's and they realize it, and it feels very, very heavy, not even just because of the decisions they made, but all the consequences that were a result of that. Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay.

That seems like a pretty that's a pretty interesting book. Alright. You've listening live for the bath. Thanks for hanging out with us so far today. How are doing here? Oh, boy. Oh, boy. The time is really rolling by. Mike, I think I think we better give some advice. We're gonna have pick up some of these other articles at a different time. Oh, you bear with a second. I wasn't ready. Okay. Hey. In the meantime, if you've got any feedback for us on the show, you can hit us up on the live from the path. Bob Eisner complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085. Call or text. We'd love to be able to hear from you at (515) 517-0085. That's the live from the path. Bob Eisenhower complaint line. By the way, big Bobby Eisenhower who,

unbeknownst to him, sponsors that complaint line. He remains a fantastic man. If you have any real estate needs, he actually does not know that he sponsors that line. We just allow him to do so because he's a stand up fellow and was very supportive for our show when we were on legitimate radio and had to pay the bills. And so, if you, thinking of buying or selling a home, hook up with Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team. It's eisenhowerteam.com. Get ready. They're live from the path. Is it a problem that my doctor is a bit of a flirt? I had a procedure recently, and when it was completed, the doctor announced all set. My reflexive response of gratitude, relief, and optimism that the procedure would help me was beautiful.

Doctor's response to that was just like you. Oh, nice. Oh, dear. Now that could mean just like you to respond that way, or it could mean you are beautiful. I don't mind either way. But is this a problem that should be noted somewhere? Like, there's an an international book of wrongs. Like, get me in get me in touch with the book of wrongs. I mean, can I just say, like, what? We were in Colorado one time, and we went to this donut shop. And the guy and, like, and, like, everybody who left the building, every every single time the guy who ran the place saw somebody leave the building, he said, stay sexy. Oh, nice. Yeah. And that was just, like, his ending line. Yeah. It was just a thing a guy said, you know, and you're not like, oh, he thinks I'm sexy. He, he just says that stuff. You know? So that's the question. Her question is is

is this a problem and does it need to be noted somewhere? It's not the first flirty type double entendre that the man has used. I don't know. That doesn't feel like a double entendre. Yeah. I yeah. I don't know. I'm not I don't feel I don't feel like that requires any type of yeah. Like If it creeps you out, go somewhere else, but I don't think there's any I mean, is it well This is an at will relationship.

Like, you're not forced to stay in it. And so, like, you're like if it's a question that that might bother you, then, yeah, I mean, I'd cut a trail. What you don't wanna be worried about this all the time. But on the other hand, if you tell the story flat like you just told it, I don't see any offense. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, can can I can someone not remark that you're a good looking gal? Some people are just nice. Yeah. Yeah. The the lead singer of the band Jackal Yes. Once said to me

that he didn't wanna take a photo with me because he doesn't take photos with people that are more attractive than him. Yeah. Yeah. Now we we all know that's not true. And Narcisse was born from. And thus Narcisse was born. That is his mythos. Yeah. And I was like, oh,

thanks. Thanks. You think he's Jack o man? Don't you own the full throttle saloon? Yeah. Alright. He's a cool dude. Sometimes people are just nice. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. I wouldn't I mean creep up by it. Say it. Yeah. Agreed. Do you feel uncomfortable either I mean, you could mention it or you could bail, but, like, if if if it just feels like they're some people actually can get away with this Right. In ways that other people can't. And, like, you gotta take you you should test the waters before you start behaving this way. You might just be a person who can't get away with it. That's true. Between the you two of us, if I gave somebody a compliment, it'd be a lot less creepy than you giving someone a compliment. You just can't pull that off. It's weird. I cannot. People just see me. They go, oh, he's a flatterer. It's fine. You, they're like, I don't know what he wants. Hey. I was at I was at a work meeting in in Minnesota last week and, like, multiple people because, know, they don't get they don't go into the office very much anymore. And multiple times, people came into the room and, like, hugged everybody except for me. Nobody hugged you. It was very clear that I was not a guy that you approached to hug. And I also obviously did not offer to hug anybody, and I felt real good about it, like, about the whole circumstance. I've been to that same office once and got hugged by multiple people. Yeah. Yeah. It's not it's not for me. I put off great vibe. That's all I'm saying. A doctor,

does they do see you in compromising positions. Yeah. You know? So it's probably not an appropriate time to, like, talk about your I mean, I don't know if that's What if she meant like you're a beautiful person, like, as a whole? Like, not Like the way James Blunt says it? Yeah. Yeah. You're I mean, I can tell you why she's, like, like, like, I I get the reason why she's scared of it because, like, I mean, like, ladies are told constantly, like like, oh, this guy's trying this guy's trying to flirt with you. This guy's trying to whatever. And, like, and, like and then he's gonna take advantage of you. Whatever. Whatever. And, like, I see her I, like, I can see why she would think that, like that does not mean that that, like, that is the thing happening in, like, in, like Right. I get that. But, like,

generally, the way that women are that women are conditioned about about flirty dudes Okay. I could see her reasoning behind that. Yeah. It's a fair point. I think it is a fair point. Is it, like, is it is it possible that in trying to instill a sense of caution in girls about the creepers out there that you've actually taken something pure and nice away from plenty of very, like, lovely folk. Yeah. Or nervous dudes. Nervous dudes will say weird things. But here's the deal. Justifiably, there are a lot of creeps out there. Like, there are lot of creepy people. Most of them are very nice. I'm I mean, wow. I I don't know. I was just saying.

I I don't I'm not gonna throw out a most or or or, like, not that many situation, but, there are just a lot of them. So somehow my wife and I were talking about affairs tonight and and or our lack of them, obviously. But You know, we haven't had an affair. Ever done? But but one of the things was, We should just shut cut the show now. Yeah. It's over. It is like I'm so socially awkward around women that it's like it's not like she had anything to worry about. You know? You know? I I'm not that guy. I'm not like, hey, beautiful. You know? It's like, I'm so afraid to cross any lines. Don't make any lines. Yeah. Right. I just kinda go, oh, there's a woman. Go to over to the ice cream section quick. You know? I mean, I don't know. Just go in different direction.

What? I'm I'm not that paranoid, but but, you know, I've just don't have any relation Go blue. Hit the ice cream. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't hang out with girls. Yeah. But with women. I I don't, you know, go to coffee with them. I don't Yeah. Actually, we the thing is is, like, we sometimes air a little bit too heavy on dudes. Yeah. Like, especially in Christian circles that, like, we are so protective of,

like, having any relationship with women at all. Just the appearance of what might be. You know? Or Yes. Now, like Well, that could happen. You know? To be fair to the guys in the room, like, almost everyone in here holds a a place of authority in a church structure. Like, yeah, you're gonna have to watch that closer. You're not just a regular guy. You know, you are leading people through god's word. And, like pretty good looking. Yeah. And we're all amazingly handsome. And so, like Jeez. You know? So, like, you like, you do you we do expect you to, you know, to to watch that a little bit. But, like, on the other hand, like, if I didn't hold any I didn't even approach my wife when we first started dating. So, like, she literally asked me out. We played Madden football, right, on a a video game forever. And, like, she's just sitting there waiting me waiting for me to ask her out. And I'm like, good game. I'm running. You

know? And then I cut a trail. Boy, that girl's pretty good at the football game. Okay. Now so somebody made when I was in high school, there was a a friend of mine who was a girl and, like, she had put together this, like, collage of pictures and stuff from our band,

like and and, like, cut out things or whatever. Mike is, like, a much giant one, but, like, this was, like, a small, like, table stuff. And this this girl had put this together and given it to me, and I just thought, oh, wow. That's really cool. I'm good. I I thought, what a what a nice thing to do. How many other people are doing this? It just did not. I mean, it took me probably five years later where I looked back and I thought, what a dingus I was. Like, I should apologize to this girl. I said, look. She's certainly moved on from whatever she might have thought might be there. But, like, for her to have taken time to do something so nice, trying to lead someone to kinda get an idea that, hey. I might be interested. And me so stupidly

to not recognize it at all. I thought, man, she she was rescued in this moment. It was to her best interest that I had no idea. I I told you about the the the time where, like, a gal invited me to her house, beautiful woman, and she was in laundry. And, like, it was twenty five years later, I thought, wait a minute. Wait a minute. She she wasn't just looking for bible study. Completely, like, hey.

You ever talk you're going to church Sunday? I mean, I guess Must be laundry day. Yeah. Knew I was coming. Right? Yeah. Oh. Aren't you cold? I'm a little cold, actually. I'll put on a coat. Okay. Secular says, if the compliment was followed by anything else that made you uncomfortable, you should have spoken up and told him so. He may have meant that you are a beautiful person rather than any physical attribute, or he may say something similar to ingratiate himself to all his female patients. Bottom line, if you feel you must be on guard with your doctor, pay attention to your intuition and find another one.

Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Ladies, do you feel like any other thoughts there? Do we do we miss the boat? Good. I was gonna say clarify, but that would but, yeah, that that pretty much was I got no thoughts. Okay. We we all think you're beautiful. Sorry. We heard on guard and started fake sword fighting over here. This is Classic.

Okay, Mike. Let's do one let's do one more. Dear die from the path. I have a relative who lives in the same city I live in. Her parents and mine exchanged holiday dinners for decades. Our parents passed away many years ago, and I continue to include her for holiday dinners. I consider her a good friend, and we share many interests. During COVID, we started to have dinner every weekend to support local restaurants, and we enjoyed the evenings when nearly all entertainment venues were closed. Now the shows and sports activities I enjoy have resumed, and our weekly dinners are interfering with outdoor activities I prefer. Uh-huh. She's retired, and I still work, so my free time is limited during the weekends. I feel pressured and must leave my events early in order to resume these dinners. Many of her close friends have passed away over the past couple years, and she seems increasingly dependent on me for companionship.

She suggests many other events and trips during the week. I'm concerned my lack of enthusiasm may eventually offend her. She knows my weekly schedule because of our frequent dinners and keeps track of my work schedule. I'm beginning to feel more trapped now that COVID restrictions have been lifted. What can I do? Say no. But she's worried that saying no causes offense. Yeah. And okay. Yeah. So you you're gonna have to bite the bullet on this thing, and you're gonna have to just be honest with them. And you don't like, cop to it being stuff that's related to you. You're like, hey. I I really appreciate the times that we're that we get to spend together, whatever. But, I just the outdoors calls to me.

I can't I can't do all these things. It's like we I was we were talking about this a little bit in the car ride. Like, there's a such thing as, like, reverse self centeredness. Right? Where you believe that your actions will have such a large impact on other people, like, that you are the you are the sender of of of the universe with the people around you. Yeah. Right? So, like, yeah, it's true. It's gonna have an effect because you have a relationship. But, like, you need to back off the worry that it's gonna be so devastating. If it's so devastating, it wasn't a healthy relationship in the first place. Like, people have legit boundaries and legit and know that they have lives intertwined with other people and should be able to reasonably take in that, like, hey, the situation has changed. My family does this or I do this or whatever. And, like, it should be a disappointment, but shouldn't be a complete, like, ender of all things. Mhmm. Mhmm. Buba disagrees.

Alright. Let's have it. Do it anyway you say. Is there not a level of just, like, rise to the occasion to be a nice person?

Like, this is obviously something that means a lot to them, and they've had a lot of loss in their life, it sounds like, and they've literally clung to you as a friend. They're a pharaoh. You do what they want, otherwise, the punishment. Why is it always the situation where the person that needs someone is automatically just a mooch entirely and he's some kind of ancient Egyptian bad guy? I don't know. That was weird. I'm like There's a certain level of, like, yeah. I mean, you can find a compromise. Instead of doing weekly, just go, hey. Can we switch to biweekly? Isn't that what they're talking about? Doing it less? Yeah. Yeah. But the ladies, like, they wanna do it more. But you right. But you guys so far have said, yeah. You've gotta realize that there's a level of of opposite self centeredness where you think you're gonna break their life and stuff like that. You could. Why not just find a place where it goes, hey. Instead of doing this weekly, I actually like going up blah blah blah. But that's not a related relationship. That's an owner.

Right? You do you do exactly what I ask of you. Otherwise, like, things are gonna go horribly. I mean, I I I think That's not a healthy relationship. I never would. I'm not saying it's it's it's healthy because they're, like, clung to you, but I don't think the way to do it is to figure out how to just get out entirely. Well, I don't think that's worth suggesting that. Yeah. Nobody said get out entirely. I think the recommendation was is that, like, if you feel like as the as the things are coming back that you would like to not spend all your time doing the things that happened during COVID, but you wanna get back to some of the old activities, then you should say that. Like, I don't I don't understand, like, what kind of what kind of relationships are we talking about where your where reaction is today? Be dishonest about it. Like, I wouldn't I wouldn't I want to share with them. These are the other things that I wanna do. I I I need to cut back on how often we're meeting where we I mean, to your point, like, you just do biweekly or something. Right. That totally makes sense. Yeah. So, like, think of it as, if we were doing a, like, a a bible study with us fellows every Thursday night. Right? And, like, we did it for a while. We did it for six months a year. And, like, I came to you guys and said, hey, man, look, I'm just my kids are getting to an age where, like, I just, I feel like I'm not being able to spend quality time with them. I'm gonna have to shag out of this bible study. And you'd be like, sure. Yeah. I get it. Totally. I understand what you're saying. That is not the situation she's bringing in. She's basically saying, look, if I were to get out of this bible study, it will completely wreck her. In fact, she's trying to do three bible studies a week to spend even more time. Well, only if only if previously before you asked to get out, someone doing the bible study with you was like, hey. I just you know, like, I really appreciate you doing this bible study with me. Like, need you doing this bible study with me. It, like, fills up my week. It, like, makes me feel good about it. Like, I can I center my week on this bible study because what helps ground me right now? Thank you for being there. Yeah. And you're like, yeah. But

Yeah. I gotta Sorry. I mean, all her other bible study partners are dead. That was included. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But still, I mean, you there are always gonna be going to be people in your life that want to control your schedule and your calendar and and you can't. You can't let every you have you've you've gotta control that. So if it's legitimate, you just have to just not. I mean, don't don't back out all the way, but but you don't Right. Set boundaries. Yeah. There you go. That's right. You you need you just need a boundary to it. You need to know what you can accept and what you can't and, like and and and firm the boundary and and, like, don't let it cross. Yeah. And I think there is there is a notion to to what Bubba was saying. Like, there's a notion of sacrifice for people, but I feels like maybe you were already doing that. Yeah. Right? Like and so I and it does not have to be

there doesn't have to be a permanence to it because at some point, you do have to ask yourself, and this is often, like, quarrelsome to sort out, but, like, am I actually helping? Right? Like, you can enable such a thing of which people, who need multiple relationships and, like, who are trying to focus a dependency on you, like, what what you do think, say, or whatever or interact with them drives how they think about themselves, how they think about other people. Like, that's not healthy. And so, like, you you wanna be cautious to not otherwise enable something that puts them at a disadvantage because you know what? Sometimes you're gonna go out of town. Sometimes you're gonna you're gonna get sick in the hospital. Like, you can't have people falling apart because everything has to flow through you. And so, like, I temporary, I'm in, but I do think there is a healthy path. And a healthy path says when your friend of you if you are actual friends and they say,

fellas, I gotta I gotta do this thing. Or, like, I really wanna do this thing. I enjoy it. I just I feel like I gotta get outside. And so can I can we cut us down by half to go, dude, we'll miss you? But, yeah, definitely. Because you because this person wants what's best for you. Yeah. And if, as well. And if that's not the relationship, like, you should acknowledge that and then figure out how to guard that. I think there's no reason you can't bring Samantha along with you next time as well and say, hey. Now there's three of us, and now you have a new friend Yeah. And introduce them to new people. And, then you can kinda back off and let Samantha, you know, step in a little bit or saying cut them off. You stay down. You're out completely. Yeah. Why? They're they're a wet rag. Oh. Think about it. All their dead friends? Oh, oh, you think it's an omen. Like, it's death is coming for you. You don't you don't want them around. Yeah. Hey, grandma. Sorry all your friends are dead. We can't play chess anymore because my it fills up my schedule. Exactly. Grandma's out.

I didn't I didn't wanna mention it, but to that. Is that the Green Ripper Reaper Reaper following you around? Can't even say it. The Green Reaper? Green Reaper. Dan, was that your attempt at getting to Grim Reaper? I was trying to get there. Was that the Green River?

I don't even know. The Grim Reaper? I've had a lot of water. We in it. We got three choopers over here in the Green River. The the Green Reaper. What the heck? I would like to cutting all of you off is what's happening. I've cut a rug. Take it with you. Don't cut me. I would like to meet the grim reaper's cousin, the green reaper. He's just over there picking his nose. He's got a bat. Are you the grim reaper? No. I'm just harvesting. I'm the green reaper.

No. My cousin won't hang out with me anymore because of COVID's over. He's the guy who owns the scythe. I'm just a guy that owns a scythe. No. They're not cousins. The green reaver? I think that that there's probably a weight balance to both to both perspectives. So I think booba's right. There's you like, you can't have, like, my schedule trumps all. I I won't I'm not participating in a relationship. You'll do what I say, and that's it. But the problem is is if if you acquiesce

to everything that they're asking, then you're allowing them to do that very thing. And so, like, there's I think boobs are I think there's just boundaries to put in place, know what your limits are and enforce them in a kind way. I don't know. Yeah. You're fixing up to the past. Yeah. Yeah. No. I would say, like, so maybe the right way to think about it is, like, you should you should enter into relationships willing to sacrifice, but only for their benefit. And if if the level of sacrifice that you're making is to their detriment because of the how connected they are to you or how on you. Yeah. Then that's not to their benefit anymore, and then, yeah, you shouldn't you should stop that. Alright. Segler says, tell your relative the truth. Your schedule has changed since COVID, and you want to be able to pursue the activities you enjoyed before they were curtailed.

It should not be, quotes, offensive. Speak up, and the truth will set you free. While you're at it, suggest some activities she might enjoy that will neighbor her to make some new friends. Okay. Yeah. Go to the retirement home, grandma. Yeah. Puppet her around. I do. Be like a kid. Like, when your mom used to introduce you to some lame kid down the road and you're like, I hate this kid. Yeah. But you can tell your mom's trying to get you to be friends with him. So this I this is gonna sound maybe this will sound a little bit harsh, but, like I'll agree with it either way. Yeah. I figured so. So, like, we've talked before that, like, when people need help, one of the things that is not fair is to act like there's only one way of which you can help them. Like, hey. I'm really having a hard I can't make my rent. And, like, you could help them give them a job, pay them for odd things that they could do to help make some more money, help them find a cheaper place to live. But the only option they gave you was, can I live in your spare room? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just and often people will do that. Like, they they they want a specific thing. They're not open to other alternatives. They only want that. And, like, that's not right. You should reject that. It's not fair for people to approach it and pre solve a problem probably in a way that isn't in their best interest and probably yours. And so I would say sometimes it feels like like loneliness especially can can make you feel like, dude, if I'm not for there for them,

no one will be. That they will be completely alone. There are cases of where that is true. There are many more cases of which they've actually not they're not trying to seek other relationships outside of you, and it puts you in a very precarious position. And, frankly, it puts them in a very precarious position. And so when you say things like, hey. Have you the the church down the street has a Wednesday night dinner. Have you gone there to try to meet anybody? And then, oh, I I I didn't make it. Oh, I I you know, have you there there are, like I mean, there's hundreds of ways to engage with people, especially, like, now that you're out of the COVID business. Like, there's just a lot of ways to meet folks.

And I get making friends is is is kind of a long term proposition, but, like, it's not fair for for people to farm out and go, this is my one and only friend, and my happiness and closeness and non loneliness is completely dependent on them. And so just even then, you're being you're not being a great friend to accept that premise. And it's okay to say, look. You really need to get out. You need more than one person in your life. I will let you down. Not intentionally. But, like, I I've I've just just run into this too, especially when you got, like, you're not the only relationship. Like, are we saying if you were proposed with the same thing like, let's say the the comparison here is, like, the person wants to go out with their family. And you say, well, between

you spending time with your kids or you spending time with me, I want you to choose me. You would go, well, that's real. That's a real goofball thing to say. But, like, in ultimately, like, that's kind of the position that you're putting Mhmm. That they're putting you in. And so, again, it's not to their best interest, and it's not to yours. And it's okay to say there's not only one way to solve this loneliness problem. There are plenty of other options in there. You should pursue them. And if they adamantly refuse to do that, oh, I feel so lonely. I can't ever meet anybody. Did you try? No. I didn't. Okay. Like, you gotta know what you're dealing with here. And sometimes, like, there's legit barriers in their mind to getting over that. You you go with them. Mhmm. I'll go with you to the bingo night tonight. I'll do that for six nights or whatever. I won't be able to make to all of them after that, but I'll I will certainly be with you to help you get started. Like, do good things to help progress that stuff, but just don't feel don't feel beholden that people who need help gave you one option to help and only one path to that solution. It's almost always not the only option. I I suppose an angle that that we're not considering as well because none of us are there, none of us have thought through this lens yet, but everyone she knows has died. At some point, you close yourself off like,

I'm just going to get hurt again, so why try? We have a senior meal we do once a month, we try to get people out of their apartments to come out and and be with people. It's like there's no reason not to, and some of them just won't get out of their room. They just they've gotten to a dark place, and everyone they know has died, family, you know, and family, you know, you know what I'm saying? Yep. Because I because I'm thinking through the lens of, just go and do something. Go and play bingo. Know? Come on. You know? Because we're all still young enough to to to to think that way. Yeah. So it's probably an extra something there, but still doesn't mean it's all on you. I mean, you still have to, but but it's I'm just saying it's gonna be harder than what we're thinking. Yes. And I would agree. That's why I said, like, I think there are legit barriers to, like, it's not always just so simple of, oh, I want to, so I will. Yeah. It's not always that easy, but, like, be being conscious of that, engage in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. You're listening to Life Path. Do we wait. Did we give we we did respond to the secular advice. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Alright. Hey. I think that's it. I think we're gonna call this this pony show a night. So thank you so much for hanging out with us at Life From The Path. We appreciate You can find more clips at our YouTube channel. Just do youtube.com backslash livefromthe path. You can also engage with us there on Facebook if you just search from live from the path.

It'll be like the seven hundredth result, so you can hook up with us there. We'd love to to get ahold of you. In the meantime, like, we'll plan on seeing you next week, but in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.