Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston proper. It's lovely to be you not to be you. Certainly not. So certainly not Lovely to be you. Yes. I'm not sure. I got a I got a a personal text about our show topic from last week. Okay. Oh. About your intrusive thoughts. Oh, okay. Tell me. Yeah. This one this one, like,

always always wants to careen off a bridge with the car. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I could just. I just went like yeah. I've had that. Especially on those real long bridges where there's no sides, and you'll just think to yourself, what side did? Took a Oh, yeah. With the real tiny sides. They're like not enough to stop the car. Yeah. There there there's bridges in Zimbabwe that, like, don't have sides, and I'm always like, oh, creepy. Hey. What if they just go? Like, are they are they falling up? They're not I mean, they're not super tall, but, I mean, you could do major damage. I mean, it'd clip you up. They go into yeah. They'd be bad. Alright. Anyway, you're listening to life from the path. Here's what we got going on the program this evening. Listen to the show if you're not on it, do you? Yeah.

There's a lot to take it in here. You you you you fellas are only one Oh, well, I'm not there, so I probably won't listen to the show. Talk to Mike a whole lot. So the only one I really owe an apology to is Dan. Dan, I apologize that I don't take you in weekly. I'm gonna have to think more about that. I do. Yeah. I'll I'll I'll let you know. I listen to the show every week. Yeah. I go back and listen to it. You selfish boob. Yeah. You're probably like, Ben, say it again. No. I find one, I find I find the room of my friends encouraging. Two, I do sometimes find places where I I learn that I'm not doing a good job. Like, when I get some I'll go a few weeks and, like, I I get on a real tangent and I, like, way over talk the thing, and I real I'll I won't realize unless I hear it. What do you mean? Your community doesn't feed into you, Will? Sometimes I don't I don't check it out. So I have a little bell that I ring once in a while. So so sometimes when my eyes glaze over, I'm like, I've been just on some thing. And to be fair, Dan, you're old. You I know. It's and it's super it's super warm in here. Sometimes I just get I just look like, I'm out.

I did. I remember I did a sermon one time, and for illustrative purposes, I dropped like a rock in a bucket or something every time I went, Oh, okay. Like, I stumbled in the thing. And I I don't remember what the point was. I'm not very good at this kind of thing. Lord doesn't feel the filler words, man. Too much of a point, but I loved it. It it did seem to whatever I was getting at, it felt like it did a good job.

But I'd say I all the time, like, I would catch my eyes, dropped, drop, drop. Just like and it was it just rang throughout the auditorium. And so anyway, we should probably have a bell in here where like, alright. Ben just got on a real ding ding ding. And then I think it's fine. No problem. Yeah. I don't find being in this room particularly encouraging, and I I wouldn't be able to figure out if I've said something wrong because I haven't been on in while. So, the reasons you gave, they don't bring truth to me. So, I don't think I should listen to this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's where I go to the program tonight. Thought though. Totally when I'm driving is like, hey, man. I could like, I could book this and like slam into the side of a building. Oh. Like Like contact. Like contact. Oh. Like flat out. I because you kinda wanna know. Right. And there's no like depressive thought in here where I'm like, just gotta go. The thought is just like, dude, I like I have I have a machine that is powerful Yeah. That I could flat out slam my foot into the ground right now, and I could fasten the furiousness if

I wanted to. You should be in the commercial for the Chrysler minivan you own. You're like, I own a powerful workhorse machine. 3.6 liters of brick busting power. Cruise control. Ambient lighting that dims when you open the door. There's messenger lighting. Stowen's. Stowen go, anyone? Okay.

Here's what got going on the program. There's a couple of things over the last couple few weeks. They're not like they're not core, like, doctrines of the church, but they're things I hear often that I I've just been rolling around in my mind where I'm like, I don't I we should probably stop I don't I don't know if we should keep saying that. Okay. And so I'll I'll tell you so you guys have a few minutes to think about. I'll tell you more, Tayar. The first one is is like I've often heard it explained. In fact, I've used this before, I think, at some point

that we're our relationship to the Old Testament law, often you chop up you chop up the old the law into three sections. Right? There's a sacrificial law, the ceremonial law, and then the moral law. And we're like, well, Jesus comes, and we keep the moral law. We get rid of the other two. I don't think that's right, actually. And so I wanna talk about that. I don't I I and and in some ways, I'm not sure it's helpful. And I think Paul and Galatia might actually be kind of hosed off about the use of it. Secondly,

this more shows up in worship tunes, and it shows up in prayer. And this is gonna hack some of y'all are gonna grow hackles if you didn't have them before, and they're gonna rise on here. I just I wanna let's test it. Is asking the holy spirit to come in and arrive in any given event? I I think that fundamentally misunderstands

our relationship to the holy spirit. I have prayed that and thought that at this as I was praying. Okay. So I wanna talk through that because He's a vampire is what we're saying. We need to invite him in. I just I I know why we're doing it. I there's actually really there's a multiple songs. As a matter of fact, we're like There's mares in here. I can't see him. Is he in this place? Okay. So, anyway, I wanna talk about it. And let's like, I I mean, don't go hunting down other people who've prayed the thing. I just let's let's talk about what the risk might be and how we think about, like, what might you be missing or where do I have it wrong? I wanna talk through it. Okay? And then we'll have some maybe some advice on Dear Life from the Path. Yeah. Okay. And we're talking about why did I phrase that? I just phrased it. Now I forgot what it was this. Berean your way. Oh, yeah. Yes. That's right. Can you can you cancel out the the holy spirit with your Bereanness? Like Ben is gonna do with this holy spirit discussion he's about to bring up. Yes. That's the question. Okay. That's the question. The other question is, did you say hackles? Isn't that like what a like a wolf has? Yeah. Have you heard the phrase you got your hackles raised? K. I use that phrase. I have not heard that. And you make fun of me all the time because you says it doesn't mean anything. And this is the second time in a week you've used it as if it's a perfectly fine phrase. I say that? Yeah. I say you got your hackles up, and you're like, that's not even a phrase. Is that like a I don't remember saying wolf, like, have hackles at, like, the top of the shoulders? I think it's supposed to like a cat. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's a K. So maybe it's a It's a phrase, or it's like it's got hackles up because the dog's in it. Is it just profanity? No. It sounded like you said an s. Yeah. I did.

Yeah. I'm offended. Yeah. Now there's a couple bins in here. I got my hackles up about it. I also apparently, this is true. It's it's interesting because Mike has has noted that I let some low level profanities in last week's program. And when he relayed this critique, I thought he was talking about my sermon from yesterday, which means holistically

I am using too many low level profanities in too many situations and I need to curtail that. And so many apologies. Thank you for the thank you for the refund. It appears to me that you dropping coins in a bucket seems to be an illustration that might stick with you for a bit. If I Can you carry that big of a bucket? Just in case I use a low level profanity. Click. Swear jar for the sermon. Mild. This is why people can't house church. Yep. Yep. The environment just lets you just go crazy. Okay.

All right. So first let's start with this old So you guys have heard this, right? Have you heard the Old Testament law kind of get chopped up in those three categories? I can't I believe I've heard it from you. Yes. I think I've I recall actually, I wanna say the, maybe it was the first or second, oh, know what it was. It was Obadiah. I did it. It's an Obadiah. It's not Obadiah. Okay. And the reason I remember this is because I was supposed to teach twenty five minutes and instead I did a two parter and I taught fifty minutes and poor Dan had to deal with the fact that like I just could not be contained with how long I was supposed to talk about. Was that like our one hit wonder? One hit wonder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One hit wonder. That goes a couple. Two parts? Yes. I shouldn't yeah. The mere setup, someone should have said, no, Ben. You cannot handle this particular structure. I I currently have a preacher right now who keeps going about forty minutes. I'm like, dude, you're you're about to be get fired. Yes. Yeah. He's like, no. Really? And then he thinks, no. That's alright. He they wanna hear me. No. They don't. Yeah. They don't. Let me tell you, hey. You moved to the house church, and they actually can't do it. I have them pinned down. I'm regularly at about forty five to fifty minutes.

And so anyway, I remember that like as a young pastor, I didn't feel like I had a good answer to this. Like how are we, what is our relationship? Not to like the Old Testament law, like the sacrificial system, that stuff made sense to me. But the key question was how could it be that something that is a reflection of Yahweh to these people and we're like, oh, was all building up and pointing to Jesus. I'm like, well, what about them?

That's thousands of years of relationship with Yahweh. And we're like, Well I'm glad they were there so that I could understand what's going on in front of me. It felt very arrogant. And so then the question is, is I like, Okay, well does it, how could it go away? How could we say if Yahweh said these are good things and how could we understand them going away in the light of who Jesus was? To a certain extent, this is what Paul is dealing with in Galatia. Frankly, it's what James and Peter are also dealing with to a certain extent. And so oftentimes, the way that you hear it described is like, okay, there's there's a moral law, a sacrificial law, and a ceremonial law. A sacrificial law handles how you deal with shortcoming and sin. The ceremonial law is some of those other things where you're like, oh, it's it's just the the nation state of Israel and the ceremonies that they do in the temples and the priests and all the things. And they're like, oh, you know, we obviously don't do that anymore because there's no temple. But the moral law, like the 10 commandments, we're like, oh, they have to carry

because there's sometimes we wanna look back and go, where sometimes if it's they're like, well, if Jesus said the same thing, then we carry it forward. If he doesn't say the same thing, then we don't then we can let it go. Which is a real weird way to go about it because then wouldn't you just say, look, if Jesus said it, then we follow it. If he if he doesn't say it, like, if it if we only accept it if it agrees with Jesus, then let's just agree with Jesus, and we don't actually have to bring the Old Testament law forward at all. And so anyway, I was I was I was pondering this recently. We spend our lives differently. I'll tell you that. Yes. For sure. For sure. And and the the reason this occurs to me, and I I realized I I think I may have mentioned some this stuff over the last couple shows too, is that Paul's view of what it looks like to be a follower of Yahweh in the presence of Jesus is that your entry point and that your reconciliation

to be a person of God is completely through the life, death, resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's it. Okay? Your your faith in that and Jesus, like Jesus specifically. And so with Jesus comes comes two things. Right? You have his life death resurrection and you have him as king. You have to accept both of those things. You don't get to get to accept one. The Bible actually doesn't treat salvation like an event and then like a follow-up where you go, oh, and I'll work on acknowledging Jesus as king. You can acknowledge Jesus as king ineffectively and stumble in it, But it's not a thing where you're like, well I believe in the life death resurrection of Jesus Christ for me to reconcile me to Yahweh and the king thing I'm still working on. I don't think scripture actually teaches it that way. And we've probably overbaked a lot of the things

as if the rescue and the acknowledgment of Jesus can be separated from rescuer and king. I think the New Testament actually treats you that much different. And so anyway, then he says the identity of a Christian then is someone who goes, yes, I accept Jesus, and then I have been provided the Holy Spirit. This is it. There is no restatement of like, oh, end these laws. Right. There is no there's and it is it is feels to some of us

and me, frankly, at times, this feels super risky because you know what I like? I like being able go, yeah, you know, the spirit will lead you, blah blah blah. But do not murder for sure. Like it's on the board. And the New Testament actually doesn't do that. It doesn't go, we bring the 10 commandments forward. It the presumption is is that like, one, as you are have fealty to the example guiding of the spirit that every Christian will come to the same conclusion that you are not to murder, that you are not to steal. As a matter of fact, the the That you're not even to hate. Yes. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. The life of Jesus like is even don't wanna say it doesn't say that it's bad. What it represents though is that Jesus goes, look, we're getting it to the root of this thing. And the shape of recognizing

Jesus as the example and the spirit as the guide, it is actually unnecessary to go back and say, well, let's pull some of these laws forward so that we can show a congruence. Yeah. Like Paul is actually trying to go, no, I actually don't wanna bring any of that stuff forward. And so then the question is what do you do with it? Yeah. Because if your heart is right, you don't need it. Yes. If I'm not hating someone, I'm not gonna kill them. So am I working on my hard heart? Yes. Well, not even just the I'm not hating them, but, like, from the perspective of if you go even further to, like, how are you loving your brothers, sisters, people, the world, god's creation, things like that. Like, it's not even any part of your thought process. Yes. It just flat out is it? Like, not believe are you not not doing the wrong things. If you're doing the right thing, it's so far from any part of your psyche or your decision making process. If you are known by your love, like first John four stuff, like, if if we are known, we show that we know god by the fact that we love and by the fact that we are, like, abiding in him in that way, that, like, that that's all that matters. That's the thing. And like a creature that looks this way will not act all these ways. Well, and and that's, you know, that's the whole beatitudes thing. You're grieving and mourning over sin, so therefore you're not trying to take score. Yes. Mhmm. You you don't have to have the list. It's like, I I just don't go there. Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. And so what what the the risk that it brings is like, well, what if multiple believers come to different conclusions about what or what is not sin? And you do. You are having that. What if one of you We have denominations because of this. Oh, yes. For sure. You've got denominations. You've got like people who have a belief about conservative and liberal doctrine because of these things. We're like, well the spirit led me to do this and the spirit says to do this and don't infringe upon my liberty which is a thing that Paul would say for sure. And the thing he was primarily, he was very, very concerned about lest it misrepresent

the identity of Christians as like whatever Jesus does plus some sort of action that says like also you have to be a Lutheran something Now like what's interesting about that is the way you get that reconciled is you you you are affirm

the belief that the Holy Spirit belongs to the people of Yahweh. You don't get your own Holy Spirit. This is why you say, look, I'm praying on a thing. God is leading me this way. And you have someone else pray on it. And like if you're not coming to the same conclusion, you generally wait because the spirit should come to the same conclusion. It's not that the spirit will not lead people individually. It totally can and does. But like it is not your personal holy spirit. Mhmm. And so like you submit things to husbands and wives pray together. Communities share and pray together. And this is the boundary that keeps us from doing things that go, oh, God just told me a thing. And like 10 people around you go, dude, I don't know. And you probably aren't right because the spirit's communal and like it doesn't tell 10 people one thing and you something different. Mhmm. The the the church world, we we are the worst at well, we're talking about the church world, but the preachers in the church world Yep. Have led the way really incorrectly, I think, in that, like,

every every preacher has left one church to go to another because they feel god led them to do that. Oh, yes. And and I think, well, if god was leading you, he'd be leading the community as well. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Again, they always tend to go to a larger setting with bigger salary. It's like I'm like I mean and maybe. Maybe. You know? I I I don't know. But do you find it more playable that a guy would have followed Jesus to a less glorious position? Like, would you feel the same if, like, like, when Francis Chan dumps his big mega church and be like, I'm gonna go lead house churches in Madagascar for a while? Yeah. I don't know. It's slightly more believable. Well, because the thing that it does, and this is could be just guilt, though. It just got sniffed out. Yeah. So, like, this is the hardest part Is that like so take take that example is is if you've got a let's say someone goes, yeah, think I'm supposed to go pastor this different church, and it's a bigger church. Like,

if someone goes, oh, I don't I like them. I don't want them to go. It causes us disruption here. There are human things that cause us to actually not listen to the spirit, right? Like you make your human decisions because of how you feel. And like it is the hardest thing in the world, I think. And and the refining part to go, do I really trust and ask the Holy Spirit to move agnostic of whatever I prefer? Mhmm. Like that's actually the hard score is to get ahold of that and which it makes what makes it difficult to have multiple people praying is you're like, well, are you loading the dinosaur? Or like you actually listening to the spirit on this thing? For first time we were at a church and and

left to go to another one. I've only done that like twice. Right? It was actually the eldership of that church that came to me and said, we were about to have our firstborn. And it was a small old church. And and they're like, we we're not asking you to leave. We don't want you to leave, but we think you should leave. We think you're starting a family, blah blah blah blah blah. We think God has more for you. Yeah. And I totally rejected that. I said, no, I'm the next Billy Graham. You guys don't understand. And it's all gonna happen here. Yeah. And it was probably I don't know. A few months, a year, whatever it was later, I thought, man, think they're right. You know? It was them God speaking through the community there saying, no. Really, it's time for you to do something different. Yes. And that that was like a it's kinda the opposite of what we often Yes. Yeah. Right. Any preacher I know about there. I mean I mean and and I don't know. It it it strikes me as we maybe we do it opposite some Yes. Yes. Because the church in in in

you know, Paul and Barnabas said they they they prayed Antioch. Yes. Praying and fasting and worshiping the lord, and and they're the ones who said, oh, why don't you guys leave? Yes. Yes. That's right. That's right. That's right. Didn't say, I feel the Lord leading us to going to church planting. You know, you know what mean? I don't know. That's just a I do think so that is actually that's a really good point because I do hate that actually. It's like you do find people where they made a decision and because it occurred to them, they're like, well God led me. But I think a community of people,

if it's something so big, like I can't imagine, like I would never show up to say our house church environment, okay, I think God's calling me to a church in Carlisle. What you would hear me say is, hey, had a conversation with a guy. And Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know. This seems like it might be a thing. I need you guys to pray on this. That's right. Yeah. And then we're gonna decide this thing together. Yeah, yeah. And like if you've got faithful people who above anything else will listen to the Spirit, you'll come to a righteous conclusion. If people like but where people are boxed in on their own things, like that might feel contentious. And think about a lot of the ways in which churches argue where there's a lot of discontent. It's not coming because the Spirit has like guided everybody to contention.

It's because you're invested in something or other, and like it's just it takes a lot to get that your own self out of the way and go, whatever God tells me I'm in. Even when we started this church, I hadn't thought about it really till this moment that that I I was, like, not gonna do this yet. Mhmm. There was a time I was going to. That's why we came here, but that there was the people that said, no. This is the time it is right now, and we're gonna start Sunday. I was like, oh. I was thinking, like, maybe next year. Yep. You know? Yep. That wasn't on my plan this year. Yeah. It's like, okay. But it was it was clearly a god thing. Yeah. You know? And so yeah. People. So getting back to the the the premise that you originally said. Right? Like, so you're saying if if your argument is is saying that like the the thing that is said often is what we've left behind in the Old Testament is the sacrificial and the ceremonial law. Yep. We've carried forward the moral law. Yep. The argument that appears to be as as you quoted into also Paul's thoughts of Galatia is that we're not even carrying in the moral law. We're no longer carrying any part of the law. What we're carrying in is

what we know to be our conduit to a relationship that's righted with our father Yahweh through Jesus Christ, his death, resurrection, life, death, resurrection Yep. Ascension and taking the throne Yep. Knowing those things all to be true, what that fundamentally changes about us as creatures when we've accepted that, acknowledged that, lived that way. We're no longer beholden to anything like

a sacrificial ceremonial or moral law that exists in the Old Testament. What we are now beholden to is who we are as changed creatures, children of this God based off of our indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our relationship with Jesus. Yes. That's correct. With this is not quite a caveat, but, like, it's a a contextual addition. Yeah. So, like, even Paul says the scripture is useful for teaching and preaching. Right. Right. Yes. Like Right. Yeah. And so Yeah. Not leave behind from the perspective of it, like, we never comment on it. We never talk about it. That's right. This is still like the laws themselves aren't weren't bad. Are still a reflection of God's character. But like we don't treat them. They are like you could.

They're not necessary for our ability to make decisions about what is right and wrong. They're not right. And there's a contextual difference that's going on there. Now, the question is what does this matter? Sure. Like does it really matter? Well, one, would I be careful because those lines often blur, like again, I I I think we've done no one actually calls it that. No one within scripture, no one in the New Testament, early church fathers look back and like does that break up. Right. We did that because we can't we couldn't answer the question well about like how did we just get rid of it. Right.

Where where we really should have said Jesus it pointed to and Jesus fulfills. Yes. Fulfill means bring to an end. Yep. What is the new creation program? The new creation program is completely an identity of Jesus and the guidance of the spirit. Well, I think we get a comment about this in what is it? Hebrews something. Hebrews seven or eight or something like that that talks about, like, the covenant that existed within the Old Testament was I think the I think the word flaw is used. I'm gonna I'm I'm kinda heartened. I don't know if I wanna use that word just because I don't know if I'm quoting it correctly. Not that I don't think it's the right word. But, like, it's from the perspective of, like, there was something fundamentally not full about that original covenant set

that meant that, like, even God is commenting or even God is saying through prophecies over and over again that, like, and I will create a new covenant with them, and I will make a new covenant with them Yep. That I will write on their hearts. They will no longer have a heart of stone. They will have a heart of flesh that give to them, that kind of stuff. Right? Yeah. Of, like, this is to use your verb, it's pointing to new thing. This set of laws is is very much reactional at times to the the misgivings and failings of Israel as it kinda gets fleshed out throughout throughout the the the storyline of Israel. And then you get this point to, like, well, all of this is pointing to a day when this will no longer be

the the the identity marker of my people. Yes. This will no longer be the thing that they are known by. Eventually, will be known by their relationship to me through my son Jesus. Mhmm. That's right. Okay. Yeah. That's right. So I like, it seems to me that the problem arises then that if all of god's people with the indwelling of the holy spirit should agree on on what is good and right Yep. And then some of them don't. Yep. Mhmm. Then they turn around and go one of two things. They'll point back at the law and go, well, that was written down firm, but even that we don't agree with anymore because modern times and whatnot.

So, like, god had laws, and then now it doesn't seem like we have laws, but the laws were obviously flawed. Otherwise, God wouldn't have changed them to be just an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So that is probably why we don't agree. And it's actually okay that we don't agree. Right? Because like, what are you gonna say to us? I can think of a couple really clear examples where like, I've been praying for God to reveal a thing to somebody in line with the spirit of the way that I believe a thing is.

And I think scripture probably backs that up too. But like it's not changing for them. Right? So like, are they grieving the Holy Spirit? Are they unwilling to let the spirit speak into that thing? Or do we put it in a camp that goes, God is stretching and maturing? And what what's the word we like to use where you where God changes you over time? Sanctification. Sanctifying you over a time where you will because like, I I can't expect someone who has just come off the rough, accepted God's salvation and kingship and indwelling of the holy spirit to like tomorrow,

like have lost all the worldly influence that they had ever had. You know? Like it's a thing that God will stretch out. So I would always find it plausible that over time, depending on where you're at in your maturity of trusting the Holy Spirit and walking that out in faith, that like you will disagree with things until the Holy Spirit goes, I'm coming for that too, and I need you to listen to me. Yeah. There's a couple so a couple things jump to mind. So even in Galatians, Paul talks about encouraging to walk in step with the spirit, which means you can have the spirit and not walk in step with it without it being rebellion. Right? So there's a there there is the ability to, like, fallibly Conversion. Do that. I will also tell you, now this is more anecdotal than anything else. But like, it is my experience that as people who like desperately love Jesus and wanna follow him, the older they get, the less fires they're starting.

The fewer things that they're torturing the world out about. There's some core things where we're like, that's nope. That's the gospel. It's Paul. It's Paul and Galatia. That's the gospel. I will not see it perverted. There's all kinds of things they look out and go, Yeah, I don't Not going to the wall for that one. Yeah, think it's not worth it. Or sometimes we just like become a little less noisy, that can happen. But like the reality is, even as I think about some of the denominational things that split people. Like

again, sometimes the older I get, I'm like, I don't okay. I mean, it's not pointing people away from Jesus. There are some. There are certainly some denominations point But people away from like it's not pointing people away, Jesus. I think it's quirky. And I I like, it doesn't seem how I would approach it, but like, I don't what are we gonna you know? Yeah. And like like, what like, what's the like, the phrase is generally close handed and open handed issues. Right? Like, you'll see fiery preachers 21, 22 come out of nowhere and just claim the whole world sinful who don't do communion every week. You know what I'm saying? You're like, it's a blasphemy of the spirit. You're grieving the lord. And, like, no wonder he is not providing blessings in your life. You're not willing to take communion once a week and you're like, what are you doing, dude? Like, this is on fire for no for no reason. Right? For no reason setting the whole world on fire. Yeah. And like what's interesting is that like I there it's not that there isn't wisdom. Like so take like

I think it's probably a really good idea to do that. Jesus seem to do it as an example. Yeah. Is it the law? Are you an do you identify as a Christian or not if you don't do that? No. Right. It's not a law problem. Do I think the spirit should, like, will refine you? I think you should totally ask him. Like, I don't like, did we Indicative of a relationship with him. Just to ask him. Yeah. And like it's I kind of think of it like why wouldn't why not? Like there's things like that that I'm like are these good practices where wisdom refines us? Is it are you can you be a Christian and not read your Bible every day? For sure. Actually, was saying, I was toying with something. I'm testing this thing out. I'm like, I don't know. Where are my boundaries here? And like, is it possible that God is like, the Holy Spirit has directed someone to go, look, you can spend one day a month at your local church and the rest of the time you're doing my work on the mission field of the baseball diamond.

I find that really hard to believe. Is it possible? Yes. I'm not sure. It's wisdom. I would probably pray on it, and I think you should probably make make sure that you're not just running under your own steam. But in but in this is would Paul go, do I have a reason to call that person not a follower of Jesus? Not on that. I don't. No. Not on that. It certainly test fruit. Yeah. Right. This what I'm saying is that so, like, just because it's not an identity marker doesn't mean it's not wisdom. I think you probably should read your bible every day. Sure. But but but your your identity and your relationship with Jesus does not wax and wane if you didn't get one of these additional wisdom markers and maturity things going at all the times. Which I think is where the risk becomes in is that like we swap out what Paul calls freedom and what Jesus like Yahweh says ahead of time, I'm gonna write the words on the heart. He thinks this is something great. And for lack of a 10 new commandments,

we just start writing our own patterns and then start holding people to those things. And those are the risks. Create our own sacred things and writings and and activities and things like that. Yeah. Didn't give us pattern. And this is and this goes back to Paul because like he will fight to the to the teeth to make sure you don't set those up as identity markers. And then in the very next sentence go, but if you should You should do them. Go ahead and do them. Go ahead and do them. But where he goes after Peter in Antioch is because

Peter had done a thing that perverted the gospel by his behavior. And so it's where the big caution is. Yeah, that is part of the reason. But so thinking through that made me think I don't know why we're bothering chopping up this law in this way anymore. I just don't think it's necessary. It does check Leviticus. I mean do check Leviticus but like I want you to but you should be praying. Don't just grab a law and go, Here, see. It's a reflection of God for sure. And you should but you should pray on it. But I wouldn't

I I would be careful about how you go about that, and I think you most certainly should be praying on it. I'll always, like, check Leviticus in order to check the heart of God. Like, okay. There's there's a reason God said to do this. So what what was it getting at? I mean, beyond law. Yes. And and I dunno, that's probably just how I indirectly in my mind answer all that. It's patterns of Leviticus, man. Yeah. There's some really cool stuff. Well, seems odd that humanity has an easier time with finding law to be a firm foundation than the presence of the Holy Spirit. Yes. Right? And like across all denominations, right? Like when the Holy Spirit shows up, people start to feel like it's formless and it's a bit of a void and it takes the shape of the container it's in. You know what I'm saying? Like

it doesn't feel like firm solid footing. Frankly in our human minds, if God's ways are not our ways, we're like this Holy Spirit is actually a little unpredictable. Where the law is always predictable. It will always react in the same way. I love the comfort of the law, to be honest with you. I was I was talking to my wife about that today. I thought like I I would it's much easier,

especially like think of it like the amount of time I might spend in scripture looking to teach it well or whatever. I'm like, I wanna lean on it. I wanna point at it. I wanna go, look, you read it. I read it. We agree because we both read it. Like I wanna, like I still believe everything I've always believed about its truth and efficacy. But the reality is is that that does allow me to somewhat farm out listening as to not whether the Spirit's gonna point me something outside the character of Yahweh. But like we are just a more explosive worldly dangerous group of people listening to wherever God might lead you at a given moment and sometimes

we become comfortable just going, Oh, well, like no one really spoke to this and so I'll do the things that it spoke to. And God's like, I gave you a dynamic thing and you look to find a way to stitch it into something you could put on your wall. Right. And like that's the risk. We were missing out. I don't think God's mad where he's like, hey, you're falling away from me. But like if the spirit is telling you to do a thing and you're not doing it, I actually think you have a significant problem. It raised the stakes on you listening to the spirit. It's not just a thing that those charismatics do. It's like if you don't get to go, hey. Well, God, look. I did everything you said in the bible. I'm not sure. That's not the bar. Right. Yeah. And there was no situation in which God gave Israel law and then left.

Like, he didn't hand that to them and go, now that you have this, you don't need me. It was always in the light of, like, this is this is your connection to me, but I'm not leaving. And then anytime he was, it was terrifying for the Israelites. Yeah. Like it is a big deal when god goes, yeah, you still have my laws but you no longer have my presence. Watch me leave the temple. Mhmm. And then cry and scream and be horrified and like we get the situation where we get to go Like, we have both of those things simultaneously where we get to see the beauty that is the the history of of how god has interacted with his people, how he used people to bring himself to this earth and then then be known by all of its generations and all of its tongues and tribes and things like that. And what a joy it is that nowadays we get all of that plus an indwelling of him being within the temple that is us for him. A connection to this world is who we are and where we are. Like, it's a beautiful thing that we get all of that. God never put us in a situation where the law was ever meant to be something that he left in his absence. I think the the law the law is, if I could say it this way, is for for lazy spiritually lazy people. All I gotta do is do the list. Mhmm. That's what Ben wants. I don't have to engage. I I I'll be honest with you. It does seem easier. I don't have to wonder. Like we will definitely get to this, but it like I've been praying about Ben. And so like,

a thought and like I have been in mind when I have this question, when it comes up for my holy spirit question. So let's do your second holy spirit question and then we're gonna talk Okay. About The second question is, I've just hearing I want to preface this. People who love Jesus. I'm not saying any that you're not. But I'm saying I've I've heard people pray

and heard some very good worship songs that point me to the Lord. But the but we're but the we're asking, say, in this moment, Holy Spirit, will you will you fall like rain? Will you come into this place? Will you do these things? It's an invitation. Yeah. And as as the thing we just talked about, I don't think there's a multiple. I think that like the holy the gifts of the kingdom come with like the acknowledgment of the king. The holy spirit is a gift to the kingdom. I don't think there's a separate situation going on here. I don't think there's like a different time of when you get it. I want you to ignore parts of acts as a proof text. It's just unique.

There's visibility of things happening. Sure. Okay? But like, and so if if the Holy Spirit is communal and it is indwelt upon you the moment you acknowledge Jesus as your king, then what are we asking? And and so let me let me start with why it matters to me. Am I like super cautious about being theologic precise where there's it's a distinction without a difference? No. I don't think so. One of the things sometimes. Go ahead.

I I need you to tell me where I miss where where I'm doing that actually. Okay. So but the question is is it like, does it does it point people to a belief that the Holy Spirit is not with them all the time? Interesting. Right? Like if the if if Which is problematic. Which is problematic. Right? Like in this, oh, hey, that this time at camp or in this specific experience with these people, we prayed. The holy spirit was there and it was magical.

And then they went about their normal days and like, I want to get back to this moment Mhmm. Where we as a people invited the holy spirit to be there and then he was. I think what we're really praying for when people we pray well, I I prayed that before. Yes. Me too. Not that the holy spirit would come, that we would be aware of his presence. Mhmm. And that's that's the key. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we know we know he's there. I mean, it's well, in theory. You you know? Yeah. But that's what we're looking for action, for movement, for whatever it is, some some display. Yeah. And that's what that's what we're praying. Remove our blindness, draw our attention. Yeah. Let's make it obvious so that we're not The fiery chariots are up there. Let us see them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think what like to your point, I think we phrase it oddly. Yeah. Right? When we're when we're because what it it sounds like is like we're commanding the holy spirit around or like it wasn't allowed here and now we're giving you spiritual blessing. Like I

think we say that, that's the words we're using and it's pretty disingenuous. But like to agree with what Dan's saying, right? It's almost like where the guy was talking to Jesus and he's like, increase my faith. Right? I can't seem to do this on my own. And so like, I think it's what it's basically saying is like,

we would like to submit our will to yours and our will wants to fight you and we know that. And so all I can ask is that you show up and kind of force my will around and so I can have more of you. That. Or the will of others. You know, the hearts of people. Because there are there is a there is a legit difference. Some of it is just a crowd based thing and some of it is not godly hysteria, right? Which we kind of want to be a little bit careful of. But like when there's a whole group of 300 people

begging for the Holy Spirit to show up, I think what they're saying is like, all of us are of one mind to lay whatever like brick wall we got between us and you down. We just don't know how to do it. Otherwise you would already be in this space. So I brought my own mess in here and my own wall. And like, if I'm praying that I'm like, I love that Fall Like Rain song. I do too. And so like, and I don't think you're saying you're like, theologically, don't care for the thought that makes it sound like the Holy Spirit is an invitation only, but really my heart is an invitation only. And I don't know how to I don't control the door very well. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I tend to just fill it with my own stuff. And the easiest words for me to grasp the whole concept is, will you fall like rain? Which basically washes all my crap out Yeah. And your and your spirit in. And I think we just say it in like a weird authoritarian way that's not quite accurate. Yeah. And then so the and I I don't

my caution in bringing it up is that, like, I don't actually I think you're like, I agree with both of you. Mhmm. And that, like, anytime that I've and, like, I've been known to not sing something if I don't actually think it's right. Like, I won't I just won't sing it. I'll skip it. I I don't think it's destroying the church. I just think, well, like, I'm not gonna say that because I actually don't believe in that part. I've done that. Yeah. And I will continue to sing Fall Like Rain. I like it. But one of one of the things that and maybe this is just a caution is me is I look out and and our Sunday mornings are often unique because you've got various ages in the room. Are we saying a church thing that the people like if I heard my son say that who's six, does he have a right understanding of the Holy Spirit to think that it only happens when we sang it on a Sunday morning or something Now, like

maybe we'll get to it in other ways of talking about it. I just I'm less concerned about mature believers who are just like orienting in an artistic way. They're positioning to God to say, look, I'm giving my moments to you which is totally awesome. Yeah. But it does run the risk of something that like in your context it fits. But then in the context of what you're raising up behind you they can have a misunderstanding and I think that I think it's just a it's just a thing to be considerate of maybe. I think Oh, go ahead. Funny enough. So we so on Sunday mornings in our place, we I ask the people that come so the first six months or so, I would usually pray before I would teach. And I would say along the lines of like, Lord, just let it be your words that are spoken, not mine. If if it's me that's bringing any any unrepentant sin, anything that's not confessed, any brokenness that I'm bringing into this that I'm trying to

parade a sermon in in the in the name of Troy and my my pride, just shut me up. Like, just completely shut me up and let it be your words that are spoken here. Mhmm. And, like, every adult in that room gets that. Every adult in that room gets the thought. They get the heart behind that. My nephew asked if he could pray before I taught one day, and I said, yeah, of course. And he goes he goes,

God, shut him up. Amen. We're done. And the Holy Spirit was there. And that was the whole thing. Oh, I love it. And so, like, his older brother goes, dude, no. Do you no. No. You don't just say shut up. I didn't say shut up. I said shut him up. Oh,

hey. That's deep. Right. Exactly. Which I was like, okay. In fifteen years, we're gonna laugh about this because that's right on. I wanted to pray for me. Put me on the ground. Exactly. And it was something wonderful. But, like, it was interesting to see, like, how we related to that statement. Like, every every adult in that place went, good. We have a teacher that's trying to make certain that he's not teaching from his own pride Yeah. Or unrepentant sin or brokenness or whatever. A seven year old went, yeah. Shut up. Yep. Shut them up. And that's the that is the depth of the meaning that he got. Yeah. Yeah. So there's something about that relationship or that request in that prayer that very much the the extrapolation of meaning from one generation or set of people totally get it that's not messing up. But there's a chance that, like, if that wouldn't have happened, that maybe my nephew would just have a weird relationship with, like Yeah. Hey. Shut up. Like, I want him to shut up kind of thing. And it's interesting, and I that that was what I was thinking of when you were kinda talking about with with your son of of, you know, is he gonna is he gonna think there's some kind of weird, like, we we invite the lord or the holy spirit into this space and if we don't, we've missed a part of this and there's a problem like, hey, guys. We can't do church yet. We didn't invite the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And it's interesting because, like, that was that was the thing where we all kinda had to take a take a, like, a break of five and go, hey, buddy. Here's kinda our heart behind this is what we're gonna do. And, like That's awesome. It was funny, and it was like, I the for both reasons. I love the reason we do this, and I love that that's his thought on it, and it's kinda cool. And it was very deep where he was like, I didn't say shut up. I said shut him up. Like, he's he's recognizing a power outside of I just said it in less words. Yeah. Like dad just said shut up. And so it's funny. Like, in that same vein, I can see that as, like, there there is there's nothing harmful about the thing that we're praying. Actually, as a matter of fact, I think it's the right the right pattern to set out. But it's certainly interesting to think just because we say a thing, is there a chance that someone might take that and then, like, run with it in a weird direction, especially generationally, they don't have this kind Well, I but I get that's my point, though, is that, like, it's not weird, actually. It is not right. I know what we mean by it, but it's not right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There's no invitation here. Like, we are we are indwelt by the holy spirit. It is in existence by the concept that we are a part of the church, the ecclesia. It's who we are. Yep. It's there. He's there. And I'm not and that's I get the the the to to roll it in, like, I I don't care, though. I we can continue to pray to that because I know the heart of it, but there are impacts to the things that we say, and we we should be cautious. Go ahead, Dan. I think

another element of this is we're praying, right? And then we're adding the element of music, which is an emotional thing, and you put the right chord progression in there and you're praying for the Holy Spirit, that gives you this feeling that might be the music or it might and I think that's what they're looking for. Want this feeling. You could be singing I love toothpaste and earwax in the right chord progression. You'll be like, oh, I felt something there. You know? It was just the right instrument, you know?

And, know, so but you throw in something spiritual like, oh, holy spirit, come, you know, whatever. We can over spiritualize that. And I I think that's where we can get a little I don't know. Dangerous might be a strong word, but just might can get off. Yeah. I think it is and again, if there's a there's a maturity of which then some of these things don't even matter. Yeah. But like the the the risk so even what's that song where it's like, holy spirit, you are welcome here? Yeah. Well, yeah. What do Fill the atmosphere. That's like You're already here. And like, fill the I it just I understand. If I think of it as as art, as an artistic expression of emotions and stuff we're feeling, I don't have a problem with this at all. Yeah.

But sometimes sometimes it gets translated into a theology that leaves people confused when they left the event. And so just make sure we've got a balance or like we've got a way to connect people to what we're talking about. If we're gonna say things in an artistic manner. Gosh, it sounds so nerdy what I'm saying. I just like I'm I get I get cautious on what's the I'll give you the example. I'll end with this. There's there's that song that would it's probably been fifteen years. It's like, all I know is I I'm not home yet. This is not where I belong. Yeah. Oh. Right. Yeah. I don't sing that part because our forever is here. And so, like

and it's not detrimental. Like, I don't care. You can be caught up in the air and come back down. It doesn't really matter to me. But, like, it just struck me teleportation to Sky City. Because it was like it was like an anthem. It's like, I don't belong here. I'm like, what kind of attitude is that? We should stop singing this like an anthem. That you called good. I'm out of here. Yeah. And like but again, it's not like I win around I don't go around slapping on people's hands or mouths for singing it. I I don't I I do care but I don't care. I think God will sort all kinds of things out. It just struck me because it came in quick succession in some prayers and some songs and I just like Made you take pause. I don't know. Yeah. I think that's fair. Okay. Alright, Mike. Can we can you Berean yourself out

of the Holy Spirit? I'm gonna reframe what I'm gonna say what I think you're saying and you tell me if I get it right. Alright. Okay? Is it possible that when when the Holy Spirit provides direction, a guidance from all could be all kinds of things of which the spirit is directing you towards something. And then by going through and let's say it was done from a word of the Lord or something. And then I go back and I say, look at this context. That's not what it means at all. Then I then I could I talk myself out of following what was a legit direction of the Holy Spirit because the nudge was out of context and it may not have meant originally what it should mean to me now. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's that thought. And then like, I find this like, this is why I had you in mind. So I don't wanna put you on the defensive, but like, this is why I had you in mind. I feel attacked. It's definitely not an attack, but it's a difference because like I was actually thinking about it because I don't struggle with

some things that you do. And I was trying to figure out whether the way that I approach it is right. I have a much easier time like reading a Bible study written by somebody else. Sure. And like I have no problem just accepting what it's telling me and like feeling like it's like whatever God wanted out of the thing that I read, like I'm getting it. Right? I don't feel necessary to like, look, berean them and like go through it and go, well, that's not theologically accurate. Or like the two,

like examples you gave me pointed to X. And I'm like, I mean, there's other examples in the Bible like that. Don't point to that. But like, you're right. Those two put together do come to X. I'll pray on that. Let me think about it for a while. And just let that be the outcome. And I can think of multiple studies where I've gone I've done Bible studies with people and I'm just reading through it and I'm like, I probably can think of a couple things where, like, you're not telling a lie. You're not telling a whole story, but you are trying to make a point. And the point seems to point me to Jesus. I'm willing to let this just go and pray on it and then see what the Lord has for me. Right? Where I think Ben cannot do this. Right? I've I've probably talked to him on multiple occasions where I I think he's even done a couple of the same Bible studies I've and he can't get past, like, chapter two because he's like, I I don't know. I don't know. I'd like don't like that. I don't like how they frame that. I don't think that's theologically accurate, the thing that they're pointing to or saying. And, like, some of that is true. Do do that Gideon study? You do Gideon that shot. Five points. Is that true? That's true. Right? The the Gideon study? No. No. Like, overall, like, the general thing that I'm saying. I usually I think it's not that harsh is not the right word. I have I often will go right point wrong scripture.

So like I understand. Like I accept the thing they said, but the thing that they pointed me to was not right justification for it. Like Yeah. Fair. Okay. Yeah. Fair. Okay. So like the overall thought is, is like, oh crap, I'm thought, man, am I susceptible to this? Because like, I'll take just about I mean, like, there's some teaching I will obviously reject because I've read the Bible. You know, there's some things I'm just not gonna take in. But like, especially when it starts talking about the Holy Spirit and talking about ways to understand how God moved with people in the Bible and willing to accept some, we'll call them coincidences in your life, right, to know and to confirm some things and have other people prey on them. I feel like I've

I would say I've gotten better about this over my walk with Jesus, but I don't actually know like, if I have to compare it, which is this is where it's gonna start getting the wrong territory. Right? But, like, I think you're way more careful about that than I am. I don't know that it's burned me, but it could. You know what I'm saying? It's also might have led me down a road that was, like, looking for something in particular. And there's a danger of making connections if you don't run it through like a community around you. Right? But like at the end of the day, I thought you could definitely rob this the wrong way too. Right? Like every time that like God is trying to explain himself as a perfect God, he's always done it through broken imperfect people. So you're never gonna find a person who is broken and imperfect in the exact same way you are so you can gusto agree with everything this guy said. Do you know what I'm saying? And so what like the question that I think that I was I was kind of thinking through is like, do I think that people can take like, God can use a broken messenger

or a broken message and have the holy spirit like pop a thought in your head or point you in a direction in the way that he would wish you to go. And because of the messenger, you canceled it out. Yes. I think that's totally possible. And it makes me think of two things. So the first one is is that like the the specific see, in reaction to the thing you're saying, I'm gonna contextualize. So the thing that Bereans are checking is the

information that is being given to them as it relates to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. It's not like are we getting some sort of moral direction or should we do an event here and there? Like the thing that they're evaluating is to go there. I'm being told that this is the fulfillment of a thing and they're saying go back and check it and the Bereans are checking. Yeah. Right? So like there is a specific context to the to the Bereans. I actually think the thing that you're saying, yes, you could. You could easily go, especially if you're pointing back to New Testament stuff and go, well, but that wasn't the context that they were talking about.

And so I don't really have to listen to it. But like if you go back to our conversation two bits ago, I could I could take the direction regardless of whether it's in the scripture at all. Yeah. Right? The movement of the holy spirit is the movement of holy spirit. If the law is on my heart and I'm guided by the spirit Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's the same reason that I don't have a problem with fallible worship tunes written by fallible people that come from churches with crappy theology. Either the itself is righteous or it ain't. Yeah. Either it points me to a good reminder or not. And there are some things there's some I didn't sing on Sunday, as a matter of fact. Like, because they're like, there's just a bit of it where I'm like, I don't know. I'm a hold off. But but

I I just I think, yes. I think that is a risk. It is a risk to someone like me specifically because I am so on guard for people being manipulated by the force of scripture. For sure. Yep. That I might, by trying what it feels like protecting runs a risk of limiting. Yes. Superpower, also constraint. For sure. So like the example that I thought of is because I'm going through experiencing God again, right? And one of the things, because this came across somebody that we know and I was praying for them specifically.

And like one of the things that that he says in like, I don't know, even the first week or something, he's like, like, we're always told, don't just stand there and move. Right? And like his general philosophy is stand there. Otherwise, you're gonna move without him. Don't like, don't don't don't just get up and do things. If he's not going, you don't wanna go. Right? Stand there until he answers you or stand there until he has a direction. Right? Now, I'm sure that's not like, don't eat, don't sleep, don't go to the grocery store. Right? But like, it's just a general overall thought. Like, if you want to be where the Holy Spirit is, then God will invite you into the things that he's doing. And like, you'll know it's him first of all, and you'll know what he's asking you to do. And instead of just plowing ahead going, we gotta do something, stand there and wait for him. Now, the thought to me is, I don't know if I actually believe that all the time. But because I'm going through this Bible study at this particular time, part of me goes, I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm like, God, if you are trying to get my attention and it just so happens to be this the way that you're gonna go stop doing and just stand there and let me be, let me do the thing I wanna I don't know if I believe that a 100% of the time. I don't know if I find that prescriptive to everybody all the time. But I am willing merely because I am going through this Bible study to go, okay,

well I'll give it a shot then. I will not move. I will stay like all the things that I've been trying to push and like make a way on, I'm a sit and wait and I'm just gonna let you do and invite me into a thing. And so like part of me thought like, one of my thoughts was, I don't know if Ben would do that. I think Ben would go, I don't know if that's prescriptive for everybody. I'm gonna ignore that. And because it possible you would have missed out on the thing God was doing because that's not scripturally true across every ounce of so I don't mean to be picking on you, obviously. You're just the you're just the most like seesaw example for me. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I and and I and and you're right because the first thing that or the thing that comes up to my mind is like, I also could be missing out on a thing that God is doing for simply not doing the things God says you always do because I was waiting. Yeah. Well That seems just as like seems as likely to be. Yeah, for sure. And so like, and once again, I'm obviously not doing the experiencing God guy justice. Like he explained all the things and like, and he did like nails like the thing that you're saying. Right? But like overall, the thought is, is, like, can God be putting you in a position

that, like, you just you just flat out dismissed because you because you because you you Berean is the word that you're not wanting me to use. But, like, do you know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. You basically, like, built it up around and said, God will not move this way with me because I checked it off the list is like not a thing. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. That would be a significant risk to me. And I think discernment is a legitimate thing. But I

the way that I would think about it and I would should be praying in this way which is like everything's on the table here. Like I don't have a reason to believe that God might do any given thing. I also know that like there is it is difficult for me to look out and see people who have every indication of being faithful followers of Jesus.

And some people have this active, very tangible movement, direction, guidance of the spirit multiple times a year. And some people would say, I've had that experience twice in my lifetime. Fair. And the measurement of those two things is actually where you get into some pretty risky theology about that. And so

but you I I I continue to maintain though that you are right. It remains a risk for me specifically and probably people like me who have got like a you spend most of your time focusing on am I discerning, handling this well, teaching faithfully the thing that I've been given so that humans don't twist it and in that protection do I miss the fact that through all kinds of fallible measures and ways God will still use and I should be open to all those things happening? Could I have which is why I actually think that's mostly

true. I don't know that I like I think it's very possible that I would miss something but like I can walk into a place. I still get something out of the Catholic church. And I've been to like a super Pentecostal church too. And like, there's just things that are going on around me that I'm like, I don't like I don't care for this. And I don't know about this thing. And I'm I'm pretty open to like, I don't fight over small things, but I can easily get distracted. But like, I can't think of an experience where I've not walked out going, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's something there for me. But I do think I do think because it is the place of most manipulation, the movement of the spirit is particular risk for me. I think are sensing that correctly and it is something that I think I have to be very cautious about. So actually,

I mean, just to balance that out, right? Like, I think God loves you, like, loves everybody enough that, like, I think folks get worried that, like, you're gonna miss the thing. You know? Like, I I didn't hear it by some, like, foolish accident of mine. I I wasn't in the store where I was supposed to or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, normally what I think is actually the truth is, like, God asked you to do something and you knew it was him and you pushed it down because you thought that's not it. Yeah. That's that like, you did hear him and you knew very well that it was him because it kinda made sense, but you're like, nah, don't I think so. You know what I'm saying? You probably did miss out on the store thing that he was gonna have you meet a guy. That doesn't mean he's mad at you, you know, but like he did show up, he did speak into it. You just dismissed it because it didn't align with the thing that you were looking for. You were kind of double minded man in the thing. You're like, I hear what you're saying, but like, that's probably not you. I'm going to check this off the list. But then again, like, I also feel like God knows you in your own fallibility and he knows a heart that's willing to hear like on from from God in a way. And, like, one of the things the Experiencing God guy says is, like, there's two things true about everybody in the in the Bible that, like, that that interacted with the Holy Spirit in this way or or Yahweh face to face. One, you knew it was him. Yeah. Two, you knew what to do. So if it's up in the air on whether it's him, not because of sin or, like, rebellion,

but, like, if it's up in the air on where this thing's coming from and it has an unclear direction, it's not him. So stop it. That's not what he does. He's not an author of confusion. He's not he's not all about chaos and keep you guessing so you can measure your own faithfulness as if it's a pride sticker. That's not what he's doing. Right? So, like, you can take those off the list. But the question is is, like, have you been praying and have have he has he spoken into you through scripture, circumstances, people around you, whatever, and you just dismissed it because it didn't fall in line with the thing that you wanted or the thing that you thought? Well then, yeah, you did miss it. You missed out on the thing he was inviting you to. Mhmm. I think that's definitely It's like like the Philip Philip going being prompted to go to the desert, and and then he's prompted to go to the dude in the chariot in Ethiopian eunuch, and he's like, yeah, but he's not a Jew. Yeah. Right. And I'm we're we're obviously called to God's people first. Yes. And so he doesn't go. Right. Yeah. That that's really kinda like Yeah. Yeah. It would be like Paul bringing himself out of it. It'd be like when they said, Paul, you should go all you should go to Asia, and you keep getting stopped. Yeah. And and, like, all the way to Asia just to turn around. Right? And Paul was obedient to that. But like, if you knew that was the thing ahead of time, you're like, that's extremely inefficient. That can't be the Lord. Yeah. Okay. The Lord is inefficient. You know what I'm saying? He could very well be calling you to something that you find abhorrent. If your your thing is efficiency

and God is calling you to be inefficient, you're like, why? He would never ask me to do that because efficiency makes so much sense. God is a God of order. Yeah. Same thing with being frugal with your money or like healthy in ways or you know what saying? All good by worldly markers. All these things make perfect sense. And God might literally be calling you out of that. And you're like, no. Why would you do it? It makes so much sense. You know what I'm saying? And, I've had him do something very similar to me where I thought I'm doing a thing right by worldly and biblical standards. I'm like, this is just a good idea. And God's like, yeah, you're seeing that way wrong. And actually, you need to be willing to surrender that when I ask about the thing that I'm going to ask you ask you for. Right? And so, like, it was just it was a surrender thing he was more trying to nail out of me than anything else. Yeah. But, like, I would have taken I took it off the list because I'm like, he couldn't possibly be asking for that. It makes sense. You know what I'm saying? From a from a wisdom standpoint, it just makes sense to do it this way. Yeah. And I don't think I think there's the risk is to say, like, I know it's God if it's painful. I know it's God if I never would have thought of it and it's super disruptive to my life. It can be those things.

God can also lead you in your gifts. Like For sure. Actually, I always thought it was I always thought it was interesting. Like, we do like spiritual gifts class. And like, to some extent, God may use you in the way they created you. And to some extent, he may use you in a completely different way than he created you and you just don't know. Yeah. And so but like all of it still tunes back actively listening? Am I

am I watching for places where like I am set in my own thoughts? I decided how these things are to go. I said I'm gonna go do business in this place next year or the year after. Yeah, right. And as not asking whether the Lord wills it or not. And it's not that you can't have like you still gotta wake up in the morning and eat breakfast and stuff. And I don't think it's that. And I think sometimes we do run the risk of people who aren't giving law. People who are like responding to situations in different places. So like it's we should be cautious about taking a thing in scripture, especially in the New Testament and going, see, this is exactly how you're supposed to behave. You have to handle it even more delicately or than you do, like, the the 10 commandments. Yeah. So, like, I have a good example just from recently. I was thinking about, like, the possibility of a, like, a a different job.

And and, like, it's a significant pay cut, like 25% of probably what I make now. Right? And I thought God would never call me to that because I can't be generous at that salary. Right? I can barely scrape my family together at that salary. Yep. And I thought, crap. He would definitely do that. Right? Not to pain me. Right? Not as a pain point, but to replace it with whatever good thing he had in mind. Yeah. But but, like, think of how, like Boot camp and trust. But, like, think about how much of a generous, like, perspective that is when you're looking at at people who are trying to hear what god's asking them to do. I'm like, why would god ever call me to be less generous? That makes zero freaking sense. Yeah. Except for it makes all the sense to him. You know what I'm saying? But like if I'd said to anybody, hey, I'm gonna take in way less money. That I can't give it away because I don't have it. In fact, we're barely gonna be scraping by and no one goes, good looking out. Nice job with your family, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like but, like, it could very well be god. Like, I don't know what think it is or know if it is in this particular situation. Right? But, like, it very well could be, and it would make no earthly sense at all Yeah. To me or the way that I would orient my life. And that may be him going like, hey. I never asked you for a salary to be based off what you trust me in. That that's exact I very way

well may call you to be just as generous, if not more, with 25% of what you had before so that you could see the way that I pay your bills. So that's see, that's exactly the thing. And like I said, like, it's way harder to see past like, when a guy goes, God's calling me a black tar heroin. You're like, yeah, makes sense, dude. It's crazy. You know I'm saying? True. Is. We're like, no problem. We got you. We're hard and fast on that one, man. But like, what if you're nailing it? You know? Like, what if you're by whatever measure, you're financially responsible or you take care of yourself or you're, like, generous to a bunch of people. And God's like, I'm actually calling you out of that. Not because it ain't good, but because I need your attention somewhere else. And actually, I think you might be worshiping that a little. So come on. You know what I'm saying? I do actually think there are there are things where you're like, these are total this is kingdom good. Is it not? Right? And so I don't I I do wonder where

where God's not always, I think, or even often in the behavior modification, but he will come after the thing that would block you from hearing the thing that he's saying. Yeah. And like he very well may reinstate it. Think Abraham and Isaac. Think Job. Like there are things in there where like it doesn't mean that the thing doesn't even come back. Right. But like if if you if there was something you had

that was like caused you to be self sufficient Uh-huh. Yeah. In a way that you did not you weren't listen it's not like you couldn't even be listening for God of all other things. You're God, I got the money handled. Let me know which poor people. He's like, actually, I know this all seems right, and I know your heart is aimed at the right thing, but this is actually gonna be a problem for you. And maybe not even the thing is the problem. It's just that even the concept of a thing that you didn't that you took out of my hands, I want it back. And so this is my way to get your attention. If he was willing to exile his people from a land that he gave them to get their attention and he wanted them to have it,

then I can't imagine that there's not anything of which, like, even though I might use it for kingly good, he would go, yeah. I'm willing to love you. Let that go for a minute because it's some way or another you're missing out on me. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's hard to take in. You know what I'm saying? Like I find that this is where the holy spirit does not feel like firm foundation because you're not quite sure. Like the concrete is always there. He just might move it. He's like, yeah, you're gonna take a firm step but you're gonna take a firm step to the left. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the risk. It's the thing where I would prefer the laws at sometimes. Like, let me go back to Egypt. At least I know what I'm dealing with. I every time I think sometimes, god, I'd like prefer the laws. That's the phrase that also pops in. Can't you just tell me to come back, T. I'm like, I know Solid deals a day. That's right. I know how to make bricks. Yeah. Put me in. I I know that's the problem. I just I'm being honest that, like, sometimes it feels like it's easier for me to deal with that than it is with like things that feel unpredictable or that I in some nebulous way can miss out on it even if I the steps I took that day were shaped like Jesus. Sure can. Mhmm. But some of that is like but it it you have to think of God rightly. You go, look, he's a good he's not it doesn't mean that he's mad. It just means that like a good father wants you to ride with him, like go where he's going. And if you are got the radio too loud facing something else, he's gonna shut it off so that you can hear his voice when he's talking. Yeah. So like he he's not only moving you like, it's the same movement. We think that moving away from sin is the only movement, but the movement is always towards him. And so even if it's not not in the sin category, he still wants to move you towards him. And so if that means moving you, not away from a sin, but another good thing, he will also do that. And so like all movements are reconciliation

between you and him. So where he's at, he wants to get you there. And so, like, if that means stop doing a good thing, he will do that. If that means stop doing a sinful thing, he will do that. But all of them are movements from from you to him. Yeah. And the question is is that, like, I I understand that sometimes this might feel like, hey, why is God taking this away from me? If I asked you a slightly different question, which is like, why would you fight God dragging you closer to him? Like, if God is drawing you in, what is it you possibly don't wanna give up to to otherwise do that? And that might and that that thought right there might actually be the thing that is giving you. It has nothing to do with the thing you're leaving. Has nothing to do with the thing he's bringing you to. It's the thing that goes, can I stop thinking is God taking something away, and can I think the Lord of the universe is trying to draw me in? Why don't I want in on that? Yeah. Alright. You're listening to Live From The Path. Hey. If you got any thoughts, maybe maybe we hit a nerve with you. Sorry about that. Kind of or maybe maybe some other things that you're thinking of is like, you know, I heard a sing say

or describe something like this, and I'm not sure that's actually helpful. And I don't mean this as, like, quirky thing your uncle said, but you're like, I don't know. Every once in while, we just look and we get used to because it we have an answer to something, and we're like, oh, this kinda answers that. And, like, if it doesn't answer it, I'd rather get to it. So if you got anything like that you wanna share with us, hit us up on the live from Path to Complaint Line. (515) 517-0085. Call or text (515) 517-0085. And, of course, we'd love to hear your feedback on the show, primarily complaints, and anything that is sticking out that you're like, I'm not sure if it's helpful as Christians that we continue to think or believe or describe something in this way. Alright. Mike. We're alive

from the past. Six years ago at my fortieth high school reunion, a few former classmates asked me about my old high school sweetheart. We broke up after high school. Yeah. I decided to find her and located her on the Facebook. Oh, boy. To my surprise, she never married. I told her I am married. We became friends again, but from 3,000 miles away. For a few years, it was a nice friendship. We shared old stories, and I helped her out with financial stuff and gave her some emotional support. Recently, she told me she has a long distance relationship with, quotes, an oil rig offshore worker.

I asked her that forty year was this a forty year reunion? Yeah. Holy cow. Okay. Just wanna know how about we're at for age. Sixties? Yeah. Okay. She recently told me she has a long distance relationship with a, quotes, oil rig offshore worker. I asked her to tell me more about him, and it all points to a scam artist. I recognized all the signs and tried to warn her. She insists he's real. It's true love, and they are getting married. They have never met in person. Then I got an email from her with some nasty words about my comments. I told her I care for her safety and that the man she's corresponding with is not real. It's a romance scam. I no longer hear from her. I still care about her even though it's not a high school romance anymore. What should I do? Dude, do old people send angry responses through email? Yeah. You already let her go forty years ago. Let her go. Yeah. There's nothing you can do. You can't answer this. You're not responsible. Wife knows, like, about this interesting Right. Right. Emotional

affair that this guy was having with his high school sweetheart. He said financial stuff. You think he was just giving financial advice or he was canning out the greenback? I think I'm on it. I think that's what I thought too. That's why I went, oh. Had a history of poor choices. It's going in the pocket of this oil rework. This person can't I I know you can't answer that. I'm just curious. I would I would wonder if this fella has talked to his wife and be like, hey, you remember Janice from high school? You know how we dated? We dated and we broke up. You know, I've been in contact with her years and I send her money every once in a while? I'm like, I'm trying to stop her from being a Oil rig worker relationship. Romance. Yeah. Actually Do you know that, sweetheart? Money does seem like like this is a pension pal is what it is. She's trying to find a guy Yeah. That can help support her in her older age. She's got money problems. That's why she's talking to the Joe Dirt over here. And so, like, I yeah. I think this is yeah. What you should do is I I think there's you're inviting a dangerous thing into your marriage. Yeah. You shouldn't be. She's, like, about my age ish, I'm assuming. Right. If it's a forty year high school reunion, they're in the late fifties. Because I yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that was why I'm little older, actually. Early sixties. Yeah. Right in there. Right. Years since the fortieth. Point being, someone working on an oil rig is probably in their twenties. Right? A strapping young man, probably. Is it active, hard work? I mean

What's that? I'm the foreman. Can you make the old dude running the oil rig? Like, 35? I mean I mean, I'm just saying there's probably not a lot of old dudes on an oil rig. Man that goes out to vote rigs. That'd be like me saying, hey. There's this college basketball player that's really after me. Yeah. And I'd be like, no. No. No. She's not. No. No. He's not. It's not real. She's she's she's not thinking right. It's probably a young man. So the question is is what does this man do? Buba says, you shouldn't even have been in this Yeah. You should. Any kind of even half a relationship. Yeah. I I I can understand that what you probably are convincing yourself is is that if you were to walk away from this entirely, you would be doing a disservice or a betrayal to this woman because you know she's being taken advantage of. However, I would also posit to you that most likely, you're not willing to live in the reality that you should have never been in this conversation or in this relationship at all. Because that that's what it is, is to be honest. I would walk away entirely. Entirely. Get back together with your wife and, like, make sure she knows about every single one of these conversations and then walk forward without having these going forward. Yeah. Yeah. Tell your wife you're like, look. I got sucked up in a thing. I don't actually love her like a spouse. I'm not cheating on you, but, like, I've had longer conversations than I should. They know more of my heart than they should. All that stuff belongs to you, and I've been giving her money. So I'm cut I'm

cutting it off. Oops. I screwed up. Yeah. What if the wife knows? So, like, walk me through the situation if the wife knows and and is fine with it. I still think he's making he needs to break this off. If she's fine with it, I still think he shouldn't be. Say we made a mistake? Yeah. I I still think that he needs to walk away from this. Because, obviously, at this point in time, this woman doesn't want his help. Mhmm. She doesn't want his advice. She doesn't want his help. She may come claiming back to him in three years and go, hey. I really screwed this up. He screwed me and scam. And, like, then it's your prudence to go, well, we're not I'm not giving you any more money for sure. Can't hold you. I know you got sucked in by oil rig scam. Now you need $500 for rent. Like Yeah. We're probably not gonna have that conversation again. Yeah. Like, I'm really sorry that happened. That probably was painful for you. I I think if wife's fine with it, he shouldn't be. He should still walk away. Yeah. Or realize that she's already ripped, like, cut him off and then should just leave him. It's I mean, at this point, he has an oil rig lover. It's his money. Yeah. Right. Yes. Right. It's his money that's going to this to continuance of this would either be her coming back after a period of silence or him continuing to press into a period of silence that he's not accepting. Yeah. Mhmm. Let's see. Segular says, unfortunately, romance scams like the one you have described are common. The scammer claims to be on an oil rig or in a war zone, but rotating home soon or is otherwise unreachable in person. He may also have a motherless child he is not parenting on a daily basis because his wife quotes as dead and the kid is in boarding school, so the target would not be responsible for child rearing. How convenient. Predictably, an emergency arises and the scammer asks for the target to fork over hundreds or per perhaps thousands of dollars for a short time only. After the money is sent, poof, the scammer is gone and the romance is over. My advice to you is to not be surprised to hear from her once the con has come to its conclusion.

Secular did not advise for you to stop being in this emotional relationship. Don't the advice from Secular is, well, don't be surprised. Yeah. I mean, that's not advice. That's like a preemptive told you so. Yeah. Maybe I I I probably would respond to whatever harmful words this person said.

Look. First of I would tell them I'm cutting it off. Like Yeah. I would also say, listen, like, I'm gonna reiterate the thing that I was worried about. This person is probably a scammer. It's okay if you don't believe me right now, but I want you to watch if these these are the three things that are gonna happen. Like, do the thing that basically secular laid out here. Yeah. It's like this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. I'm hoping that these things because they're predictable, because this is what a scammer would do are things that otherwise help guide you as you continue to proceed here. Mhmm. Past that, I'm not I'm not helping you at all, and so I don't worry. I will not continue to respond. I do because

of basically your reaction to me where I've tried to have been helpful to you and it's not, my wife and I, you know, won't be responding to you going forward. Yeah. Cut it off. Or connect her with your wife. Like, hey. You need a woman of prudence to tell you good things. My wife is available. You should start a friendship with her. Yeah. Do you think it's more risky because they dated in high school? Yeah. For it being, like, an emotional affair? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Mhmm. Yeah. The fact that, like, this it it was the weird way it kicked off. Like, forty year reunion, it sounds like they didn't see each other at this reunion. It sounds like they had broken it off after high school, and then Jimmy and Danny, his buddies from high school who were also at the reunion went, hey. How's Janice been? And you go, ah, that that never happened.

And then you randomly looked her up, found her, and then started contact with her. Yeah. That's that's the weird way because that's just an odd thing. You don't do that to just a random acquaintance. Mhmm. Like, that is an ex of yours that was apparently enough in your life in high school that, like, it's been years, and now you're trying to rekindle You're trying to get back to that great feeling of early romance. Sure. There's something about the vibe like, I was younger. The wonder of yeah. Yeah. Fun time to relive. Mhmm. Yeah. And then if it's been years now that you guys have been talking semi regularly, it just it feels like it sniffs all the ways that this seems to be if it hasn't already dipping towards potential emotional affair kind of stuff. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Dear and I from the pit, my husband and I are in our sixties.

When we are at home, just the two of us, he likes to wear just his undos around the house. He wears that much? Yikes. I don't identify with this man at all. Yeah. Note to self, text Dan before self pony. Or email him. He's old, I guess. Whether it's watching TV or eating dinner. Dan's DoorDash account has been flagged.

Just leave it at the edge of the drive. I'm here. You can't come in. I got a couple of Michelinas in the microwave. And I'm in my BBDs. Yikes. Okay. Hold on. Okay. He likes to wear just his undos around the house, whether it's watching TV or eating dinner. I have accepted it all these years and never made an issue of it. When our granddaughter visited us Oh my. At the age of one, he wore shorts at my request, but no shirt. She's now coming to stay with us at age 2.5.

Don't you think you should wear a shirt and shorts when she visits? Yeah. He values your opinion. It's the best ending to a dear life from the path I've ever heard. Would it be wrong Twenty years. Would it be wrong for the wife to go find his high school sweetheart to try to influence him to say, look, you should wear pants and a shirt when your kids are over. When grandkids come over. If you won't listen to me, listen to Betsy and Cuco, old friends. I

I don't know when I'm gonna get to this point, but, like, I don't feel comfortable at my own house walking around in my undos. I always have jammy pants on and a T shirt. Yeah. That's as that's as far as I can I think maybe it's because there's just Or nothing? So many people stop by my house randomly Don't wanna talk about that. That there's just no occasion to be in your undos. Even at even at 10:00 at night, there's still a 20% chance someone's gonna pull in a drive. Yeah. Wait. Wait. Before you before you say it, I want you to think about this. I wear gray sweatpants, gray sweaties, but they are form fitting. Oh. Like, there's little left to the imagination. Okay. Go. I don't wanna think about that ever. It's too late. Ever. For multiple reasons. Ever. They pour on, like, hot sundae sauce. I'm gonna gonna do that. It's horrifying.

Super excited that I plan on being asleep in the next hour and a half. I don't love that. I'm gonna do my best to honor my father. Okay? My dad wore essentially nothing. Uh-huh. I that's every Very holy underwear. Yeah. Every memory I have have of my dad at home, he was like, he was in the breeze. And, like, he had underwear on, but it wasn't enough to be covering a a large percentage of body. Right. You know? It's probably the easiest way to put it.

I love my father. I pray that he's resting well. But, like, that's all he did. Yeah. And so I grew up with that. I became a father this last year. Yep. And, like, I live that life. I, like, I walk around in my Guchies. Mhmm. It's kind of my life. I don't I don't often have Wait. What is that? How much is that? Like, this like, it it's it's boxer briefs. Okay. It's like it's the coverage half thigh Yeah. And that's about it. Wait. You see your your dad was, like, tighty whites? Yeah. Dad was tighty whites. I'm at least a little bit more coverage on the thigh. Okay. Got it. There's there's a little bit less of my leg whites showing out. Right? Okay?

In the last four months, my daughter's almost one year old now. It occurred to me that, like, there's a chance that she's gonna have some weird, like, early memories of, like, dad just kinda walking around. It may basically the buff. Yeah. And it weirded me out. Yeah. Yeah. In my dad's defense, he only had boys. So I think there's something about that. The fact that I have a daughter is a little bit different. But, like, there's just something to it that, like, up until four months ago, I was like, we're we're Guchies families. Like, I I I pay for this house. I'm gonna walk around in whatever I want. And if, like, the door gets knocked on, I'm a throw on what I need to to be presentable. But, like, I'm not gonna assume that that's happening, so I'm just walking around my veggies. Four months ago, I'm like, I don't know about this anymore, friends. Like, I don't know. I even told my wife. I was like, should I have, like, shorts and a shirt on? And she goes, I mean, you can, kinda, probably. I was like, crap. How long have you been holding on to this one? Right. Like, why didn't you tell me this? You've been planning on becoming parents. I don't know. And so, like, I'm of both minds on this one. I've been the person before that's like, this is my house. I gotta walk around whatever I want. But now I've got a kid and, like, even more so if it's my grandchild? Yeah.

I'm putting on clothes. Yeah. You're lucky if I'm not wearing long sleeves. I'm putting on everything. There's no reason for my grandpa to have any memory of granddad walking around in the buff. Yeah. Yeah. None of it. My like, I I have two girls, and, like, up until they were probably 16, 17, they didn't know that dudes took their shirt off because I just never did it. Yeah. I'm like, I just don't see any reason. Tattooed on? Yeah. I mean, like, I that you would never find me walking around without a shirt on because I'm like, I'm always doing something dirty. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I never wanna be like I don't wanna hear this all over. Put that, man. Yep. Yep. Well, well, yeah. I guess I should have re Oh my. I was doing something dirty, man. It's just true. Pants are formed on like hot foots. I didn't say none of those things. So in either case, like some of it I think is down to personal preference. Like, you know, like just how people feel comfortable. I feel vulnerable without a shirt on. It's true. Because I'm like Yeah. I just something in me always thinks something's gonna catch on fire. That's right. Exactly. Or, like, a car's gonna break down, and then I'm gonna be out there working on it in my shorts and sandal no shirt. I'm like, yuck. Like, I wanna be wearing jeans and a legit shirt. You are a very tactically prepared man when it comes to your wardrobe. Like, you got your steel toes on. Yeah. You got a pair of jeans or I'm uncomfortable. At my leisure, I wear boots. See your cast, I feel weird. I'm like, what is happening in Mike's life right now that he has shorts on? I don't like this at all. Put some jeans on. Yeah. It makes people uncomfortable if they find me with shorts on. Now the beautiful thing is when your daughters grow up and leave the house, you spend about two months walking around naked because you can. Yeah. And then you're like, okay. That's done. And then you can yeah. You can you're back to jammie pants. And and isolated barbarism that you grab ahold of that goes, yeah. This is my castle. Yeah. I'm Right. Exactly. This place. It's fine. Yeah. And then after a while, it's like, okay. We've free enough Neanderthal dam. And I gotta there's no reaction anymore. There's no reaction anymore. Well, I guess I'll put pants on. There's Dan. All of them. Wait. Is that yeah. I'm tired of coming over to your house and having to stay there, Dan.

Oh, there's Dan. Hey. My wife calls you my childhood Dan. I don't know I don't know how you wanna take that in this conversation. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to do with that. Tell you that. But, like, whenever I talk about you in stories, she's like, and this is your childhood, Dan? I'm like, yes. It's my childhood, You take that however you want. Is that compared to Danimal the animal? Like Yes. I think it's Danimal the animal Okay. And then my childhood, Dan. It's just a funny thing. Like, I don't talk about Danimal the animal that often, but but, apparently, I cannot talk about a Dan unless she knows it's But there might be openings for an adult Dan. There could be an adulthood Dan. Now you got naked adult Dan. Dan, you've you've been you've been a part of my life for a long time. Senior Dan. Alright. Senior Dan. I'm half tempted to put the words hashtag naked adult Dan.

So you're sure? There might be an element of the Internet that needs to hear this. New action figures. Oh, I don't want AI to make that. I put more clothes on based on this discussion. That's right. I added a sweater. That's true. Yeah. That's true. I'm gonna start looking like mister Rogers a lot more often now. Okay. Secular says, since your husband values my opinion, please tell him I said that unless it's 95 degrees when your granddaughter visits, the appropriate thing to do would be wear shorts and a shirt during your grandchild's visit. That's it. Yeah.

Can't imagine parents. Like, being around my kid? Ah, yeah. Like Of course, they grew up with it. Yeah. But still. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Alright. Alright. One of one of them did. Now think think culturally, like, cultures are not wearing near the clothes that we are depending on their location. Well, think anything about it. Yeah. I mean yeah. But, like, less clothes is still covered.

Like, I've we've both been to very, very, like, hot climates that they're still at least in some shorts and t shirt or tank top at least. Mhmm. It's not usually, like, just in their grundies unless unless you've been to places I haven't it is that way. Hashtag naked Dan. Don't don't naked Dan. Don't naked Dan. Alright. We're gonna do one more then we can get out of I got it. Alright. Dear and I from the Path, A friend invited me to his birthday dinner at a popular restaurant. Oh. I got him a nice bottle of wine and a small book as a gift. The chilies. There were 10 people at the table. One person had flown in from Chicago, another from LA. Important. After we'd eaten and were conversing, the birthday boy excused himself.

While he was gone, the waiter presented the bill, and it was then made clear that the rest of us were expected to pay for his birthday celebration. Split amongst us, it came to $99 each. Woah. It was a nice place. It's a thousand bones. I put it on my credit card without comment. However, I was taken aback. I would never invite friends and then expect them to pay. I bounced this off a couple of other friends. Both said it was unacceptable behavior. What is your opinion? Am I unaware of this as a social norm? They weren't expected to pay for themselves even or just not It sounds like birthday boys. To pay for himself, but not his buddy who went to the bathroom when the bill showed up. Yeah. I mean I think it's fair. I don't even if it's my birthday dinner, I'm not expecting my friends to pay for me. Okay. Well,

so it kinda depends on who invited you. Did did somebody did a friend put this birthday thing together and they invited all the other friends or whatever? Then I might have a sense for, hey, Remember we're chipping in and helping things so much. Yeah. Probably fair. The way that she's phrased it, the birthday boy invited this person. That's the only detail they gave. Now, it's not to you personally. It sounds like everybody Yeah. Right. Everybody split it equally. Yeah. Right. Split equally among the nine other guests. It came to $99 for each person. Yeah. And so, like, I actually I think you have a problem except for whatever you walked in believing because let's say you thought he was gonna pay for his own birthday, the whole shebang, and they brought the check. Wouldn't it occur to you at the moment to go, nah. It's your birthday. We got it. Yeah. Like, of course, you would do. Each person an extra $10. Yeah. Like, yeah. What are we talking about? Unless you got, like, a salad and everyone else hit the wine and you feel it was disproportionate. Yeah. Also, if everyone's bill was $99, that doesn't mean that it was everyone had a portion of his bill added to theirs. That means that the bill was split among the nine of you equally for what everyone ate. Yeah. Good boy. And that's not that A more different story. It's high, but it's not

Yeah. I mean, I've seen worse. For a nice restaurant for dinner. Yeah. That too and you're the kinda you're the kinda dude that brings a book and a and a bottle of wine. They said a good bottle of wine too. I don't know. Dan got three shirts from the Internet for more than that. That's true. He could have I'm just saying last the rest of my life. That's right. Right. I'm not saying it isn't it isn't the the best decision to have paid a $100 for your dinner. Agreed. But again, I thought originally, I was thinking that this was everybody just got a portion of his bill tacked onto theirs. I don't think that's what's happening. No. I think they just split the whole thing evenly. Yeah. Of them evenly. And then therein, I I think maybe your issue might be with, hey. I ate a salad and somebody else had the ahi tuna. Whatever. Yeah. Then I can understand maybe again. Whatever. Sure. You have every right to be, like, surprised.

I suppose so. Yeah. So far taken aback that you couldn't even imagine this in the realm of possibilities that, like That's a little weird. If you split a bill. I don't know if you've been to the world recently, but sometimes this happens. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, I don't know if you need to be taken aback and it change your whole personality going forward. I feel like somebody should have said, I got mine plus his. You guys everybody everybody paid for your own food, like, but I'll get birthday guys. Yeah. Right. You know what I'm saying? Friends and not a single one of them was generous enough to go like, we got Carl. Yeah. Yeah. Instead, let's split Carl's stuff plus the appetizers between everybody. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Everybody pays a tenth of what this is. Yeah. If I was, like, salad man, I'd be like, look. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Y'all flying in from different I drove here. You know? I you know? I'm making the double double figures. Yeah. Right. Right. I can't put biagis on my food stamps. Yeah. So,

you know, I ordered a salad and breadsticks. And, like, here's Yeah. These are people are means. They flew in from different places for the birthday party. Yeah. I I think there's something to be said about, like, maybe you don't go to the big celebration next year, or maybe next year you go. I'm going, and I know I might pay for your bones. Well, I it's a good point, though, is that, like, don't you think you'd be able to tell by the restaurant? Yeah. You should go, you know what? You know what's gonna happen? Something weird could happen. I'm going. Forget it. Yeah. Yeah. You go you wanna go to dinner at La Coco Henry's? You're like, oh, I don't go to La Coco Henry's. Fancy steakhouse. I know I'm probably gonna drop a bill on this. Uh-huh. I Kinda like, hey. We're gonna meet at Five Guys. Well, you'd probably still drop it. Yes. That's good bill too. Different bill, but still a bit. You know? I had I remember this has been about ten years ago is that, like, a friend from from high school was in town, I think over the Christmas break or something. And I thought, oh, it'd be cool to see this guy. There was some party or something, and they invited that that we could go. And but I'd heard that, like, hey. You had to get put $10 at the door for to help pay for all the booze. I'm like, I don't drink any booze. What

are we gonna put $10 down for everyone else to drink the booze? And so I didn't go. Yeah. Then I wrote seems fair. And then I remember it got back and, like, there was a fence. They're like, what? You just wouldn't pay the $10? And, like, in retrospect, I'm like, I don't really care about the $10. I probably don't need to go a party where there's a bunch of booze either. Yeah. That's true. I because it's not fun to talk to people who aren't the people I know. Know. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, stranger. Who's kinda drunk? That's what you're really like. Hang out at a TGI Friday? Yeah. Like, I'm out on that. We'll do coffee sober people. Yes. I'll personally take you out to dinner next year. Yeah. That's what I would say. But but but, I mean, I I I saw the situation for what it was ago. No. I don't think I just won't go to that. I don't care if you go, but I probably won't go. I don't go to my high school reunions because I don't care about the social norms that exist at that place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go, okay. Well, you can have fun. Enjoy the Facebook post for the next five years, friends. See you later. Yeah. I'm holding off a sneeze. Do something else. Hello? I'm write down. Got it. Secular says. I think it's darling. Oh, yeah. Probably. I wasn't I I wasn't even thinking. You spend all your time walking around in your what did you call them? Gauchos? What do mean? I'm Gauchos. Grucci's? What was what's the word that you're using? I said I said Grundies, and I said Guchies. What's Guchies is very it's Pittsburghese.

It's like my Italian in laws that was, like, that's what their entire family and extended family, all their neighbors, all that stuff, they call them Guchies. Does that offer all intimate apparel? Yeah. It's I yeah. It's basically, like, it's what it's what fellas and ladies wear. It's it's it's it's it's undergarments. I have to say, don't know what any of my in laws call their undergarments. Yeah, dude. Where did that come up? I'm not saying that the normal thing is that I know what all of them are, but, like, I've lived I lived in in the same place as them for a couple of years, and it colloquially It comes everyone refers to them as Gutchies. Yeah. And, like, it comes up because they all live in the same house. And so, like, whenever we would stay, my wife would do laundry, and then my wife would be like, hey. I'll make sure I I fold the laundry. Tee's guchies are in the laundry. And then Gina would be like, yeah. My guchies. I don't want him to see mine. Like, it's just it's it's the language. They say guchies. Okay. It works.

I'll believe it. Act like out of the weird stuff that we've talked about in the last one, you guys have known me for twenty years. Yeah. No one should be surprised if we And then you go visit the hill people and then they're like The hill people. Don't touch my gutchies. Ironically, they refer to us as the hill people. But they Dude, we're the flat people. Right. They are in fact the hill people. They live in places that like Hills is in the name of the township all over the place. Yeah. When wanna make a development seem like it's high end, we're like rolling hills. Yeah. Exactly. There we're like, hey. We literally can't see more than three miles away because everything's on a hill or adjacent hill. Gutties. The hillocks of There we go. Secular says, if this has become a social norm, I am unaware as you are. When guests are invited to a celebration, it is the host's responsibility to treat them unless it is understood when the invitation is issued that everyone will be expected to pay for the meal. The next time this person invites you somewhere, make sure to ask whether you'll be splitting the bill. That way, there will be no surprises. I really love the etiquette training that Secular has and and feels very adamant about in all of their replies. That, like, all of these things are yes. Everyone knows this. Obviously known that this is what you do when you go to Biagi's on the South Side. You bring a bottle of wine and bring a book, and you don't have to pay for a tenth of the meal. I here's the thing. This is why you hang around with Jesus people. Because, like, this isn't even a question. If people are like, hey. You wanna go out? It's like, as soon as you said, hey. Do you wanna the guy that asked you is paying

for probably you and the table next year. Get to do the fun thing where you fight each other to be generous. Yeah. And be like, hey. I went and I took care of the bill before that schmuck did. I remember it was on this show ten years ago, Dave Herrick in here, and we were talking about going out to lunch or something. And he's like, you should always pay. I'm like, what? Eric, I don't think you know how much money I make. And he goes, doesn't matter. You have a backer. I'm like, like a like a a gambling backer? And he's like You you got an angel investor? He's like, got you got Jesus and Jesus always pays. I'm like, okay. So I took this advice to heart. Every like, I think about it all the time. Every time I go out deep with anybody, and I have made more people mad by this stance on life. Like, I will go out with a bunch of people that make the same amount of money I do, and I'm like, I'll take the bill. They're like, no. What are you doing? And they are super mad. I'm like, Herrick said Jesus is my Becker. I would never be mad if he bought my meal. Yeah. Just putting that out there. Yeah. Yeah. They are flat offended. They're not like wowed by God's generosity. They're offended that I have taken the bill. Probably broken schmucks that have no idea how to handle generosity. That's the thing. They get real mad, and I think, Herrick, you've put me in the straights again. I

like that. You got a backer. You got a backer. Freaking Herrick. Like the guy from Poohull Junkies. You guys seen that movie? It's pretty obscure. Alright. What a random reference to Poohull Junkies. Nobody has referenced that movie in fifteen years.

Thirty years. You've been listening live for the fact. Thanks for hanging out with us this evening. We very much appreciate it. Hit us up with the on the live from the bath complaint line with your thoughts on the show. (515) 517-0085. Buba wants to know what you call your underpants. Go ahead and text that on in. Do not. I do not want a picture. Don't put my name on that. I I got a wife. You leave me alone. Hashtag booba asked. Nope. Yep. Yep. I got a pair of matching flippies. We're gonna we're gonna head on out in the meantime.

Be faithful means god will hand to the ends. You've been listening to live from the past. You build your ivory towers, sit on gilded thrones, but the Lord sees all. Even hearts of stone, we wounded those at ease who sing out of songs. Your palaces crumble, you've been wicked too long. The lion don't whisper, it tears through the air. The Lord won't