These people refuse to just need to love once. Wrong marker. Love and god. We're gonna let them all go straight. Live from the Path Road Studios and Johnston Proper. You are live from the path. And

it takes the fun out of the van. We're authentic. Alright. You're thinking I don't I don't even know what to say to your life. You're listening to life in the path. I don't know. Get a girlfriend. I don't know what to tell you. Alright. Get a lady. You

listening to Live From The Path. Good luck. Alright. Here's here's what we got going on show tonight. First of all, our show is about honest faith, fierce grace, and donkeys. And basically, what it's gonna sound like to you is there's a bunch of dudes in a room jaw jacking around about Jesus, and you pegged it precisely. That is exactly what's going on. We simply show up late, we turn the cameras on, and we throw in the mics, and we say, what you wanna talk about Jesus? And that's pretty much what goes on here. And we would goldfish noises or whatever before the show starts. What what what was going on? You know, man, seriously, you don't wanna know. Okay. That's fair. I think that's fair. Alright. Stop it there. Here's what we got going on the show tonight. I've got some Pope style, and this is holdover Pope style from last week. Well, you promised you were gonna mill this about, and you did indeed mill it. I did. I milled it about, and I think I'm ready to present. I'm still hesitant as advice, though, but it's it's something I'd like to talk over. I think it's gonna be Pope style, then you're gonna walk away and think, hey, man. Maybe that guy's not really the Pope.

So but but I'll I'll I'll give that, and we'll see it's a con potentially questionable pope style advice this week from Ben. Also, we got a few articles we wanna hit. One of them was what not to say to someone who has been hurt by church, six misguided responses to spiritual abuse. So we're gonna talk through that. I mean, and I suppose you hear that from from the that makes a lot of play in in in the news, either either mainstream or Christian oriented,

is church abuses. The question is is, like, you know, if we're running into that, whether you whether you would agree with it or not, like, how what what's the best response? And, and frankly, what is, what can we learn as a church, from that, from what people have encountered? So, we'll talk about that. Also, there was an article about a guy who said, basically, it's a question of the nature of church itself. Dinner with friends is my church. Is that okay? Examining what church, really is. And I think that's a that's an interesting question given how how kind of the life of the church is as buoyed from, you know, pretty

I don't know. Or its early beginnings in the, in the first and second centuries into kind of a mass organization and then random bits of of splitting and hitting the countryside in the interim. So that'll be kind of an interesting conversation too. Mike, we got we got deer life in the path? We do. Do you have a do have Synopsis withheld. Alright. Cool. Also, hey.

If you haven't had a chance to, go get hook up with life from path.org and check out our interview with with Stevie Seitz. Stevie was in the in the studio last week, and I I know it's just a very interesting interview. He's his album, The Witness Stand, is out. He's working on The Witness Stand too. And and, basically, he he embraces the conversation that says, look, we there's things that that I think we mutter in in in Christian corners, but don't talk about openly as if there's any volition behind what God's got going on in our lives. And so that that's kind of what I took from from understanding what he's after with the witness stand. It's kinda engaging culturally in a way that that says, look, we're not afraid of how God does things. And so, so anyway, go check out that. Go check out his album, and, we're gonna have him in, sometime probably later in the year, to kinda see where he's at with The Witness Stand too and and hook up with him even more. So go check out that video. Hey. Unfortunately, if you saw the live show act, I guess if you missed it either, well, our show kinda got cut short last week. We did a full hour twenty or so on the live program, but what was able to be archived on our on our YouTube stream is only, like, thirty seven minutes long. So there was some stuff that we said we were gonna talk about, and I promise we did. We just didn't retain it. Yeah. We we can't prove any of that stuff. So and here's the deal. If you've listened to the show to any length of time, you're not gonna miss a random forty minutes of like, it's the same thing. It's a drop in the bucket. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. Just go watch a past show and be disappointed in that. There's no reason to keep current on that type of thing. Alright. So that's what we're going on got going on the show this week. Let's let's hit up let's hit up one of these articles, and then and then maybe see if I can get away from my folk style. So I wanna talk about this dinner with friends is my church. I like this one. Is that okay? So here's here's the here's the salvo.

Oh, it's an advice. It's a advice call. Oh. Hey, Eddie. Without going into all the backstory, I'll just tell you that I feel listen, let's rephrase. Dear life from the past. Yeah. Without going into all the backstory, I'll just tell you that I feel like god is moving me to be in a different kind of church. Specifically, one that has more of a home dash church kind of vibe. So is it okay for me to have church in my home? I feel like I experienced god better at dinner with my friends. Thanks, man. Love, Mark.

That's it? That's the question. Yeah. Mike's Mike's in with that's okay. Yeah. I think I think it really depends on the motivation. I I do I have no problem with with the church meeting in home. Are are they running from accountability? Are they running from fellowship? Are they running from something? Or are they just is that just Do you assume they're running because they don't wanna attend the commercialized church? No. That's what I'm asking. I mean, if I'm I'm okay with the house church. But they must answer to you on why they're not coming? No. No. No. What

often happens in the church house church movement is they leave for all these reasons, and then they do the same thing just in a smaller way. And then they end up going back to It's kinda hard not to, I mean, not to volunteer to vacuum or be in the nursery when there's only, like, three guys at your place. Mean, they become Steve isn't helping. They become just as inward or maybe even more so sometimes. You you know? I can't it just it it can become unhealthy or it can be really healthy. That's why I'm just asking. I mean, it's it's the same. I think if if I understand what you what you're saying, Dan, it's the same premise as a guy who says humanity's in the tanker. I'm gonna go live in the forest. Yeah. You might have avoided the problems that you thought humanity was causing, but, like, you're also living in the forest by yourself, and you're also not engaging with anybody. So, like Right. If you're,

there are there are healthy ways to do church at any level. If you're if you're home churching because you're saying, you because you're running from something that otherwise comes along with the Christian community, and you're you're simply trying to, reduce the your exposure in that way. Like, the question is, are you are you being faithful to Jesus in that thing as opposed to hiding away from something else? That is that that kinda what you're Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why is it why do people who like like, generally, as far as I can see, people who do a home church or something,

small like that are different than the corporate normal, you know, building style worship are kinda they're just they're considered fringe or, you know, even even missionaries to some extent. Like, they're just not part of the normal Christian fish stream. Is that is that even necessary?

Like or or it's just fine. You know what I'm saying? Like, is there a reason that they're thought of so differently? Like, is there is there parts of the, of the, you know, the the bible that they're taking some way and and corporate the other way, and and that's how they ended up where they're at? Or I don't think there's anything implicitly wrong with it with any size, to be honest with you. Like, there's a there's a you can there's risks that come with both. That that's probably the right way to think about it. There's if you got a giant church with 5,000 people, I'm glad you're reaching people for Jesus. You you have some risks there on on making,

community, people feeling attached. Like, that's one of the inherent risks to that. It doesn't mean that every church at that big has that problem, but it's it's created in that in that atmosphere. I think you, if you end up doing a, a house church focused to simply say, I I don't wanna be part of a larger community, like, there's a risk there that God has you doing something that actually has a wider breadth that you're simply not embracing.

So I mean, there's I think there's risks in both of those things, but I I I think I would come from a position where I say, I I don't know that either one is inherently wrong until you're otherwise choosing something that that prioritizing your comfort over God's calling in one scenario or the other. Whether you're in a big building of of, you know, 5,000 people or or a small home of 15 people, you know, 10 people,

If you're a community that that acknowledges and loves Christ for for who he is, seeks him and and and follows him, serves him, and and then you you're doing your work, because, I mean, regardless of of how many people you have in your church or your building or your community, you've got work to do. Do it. If you're doing those things, I I don't see a problem. Like you guys have said, there's risks in in both. There's risks in in the megachurch, and there's risks in the in the small 100 to 500, and then there's risks to the home church of of less than 10 people.

I think it's ultimately where your heart is, and as long as you're you're aligned with with what God's asking the church to be, what God ask is asking of the church and who who the church is, not just the building, I think you could find yourself in the right. I I think where we maybe where where we've gone astray in our culture is we have redefined church, the church being the body of Christ. You when you look at the first century church, they met in homes, they met in larger groups, they met in mid sized they they did it all. It was all just the church. It wasn't like, well, this is first Dan's church, and over there is second and third whatever church. Right. We we put labels on it, and and we've divided ourselves. And it's all I I would say all of that is an error when we're all just part of the body of Christ. So so I'd say, hey. Worship in your home, but also connect with a larger group in the whole fellowship of believers within the community

at large, not not the church community, the the the town that you're in. And and we we miss that. If you're just hiding, that that's that's a sign of danger. And you're missing out of some great blessing. I talked to our our worship pastor today who's in the middle of a crisis in their family, and and the community of believers is surrounding them right now in some pretty positive ways. If if your community of believers is, like, five people, that's great, but it's not nearly the blessing that and encouragement and and uplift that you need at times from a larger group.

Can't you get that from a smaller group, though? I mean, I I get that the magnitude could be more if you have a 100 people versus five people, but isn't god the one who's blessing through those people? I mean, I think that it could happen with with less than 10 too. It it can. Yeah. I guess I'm not saying there's one or the other. It's really can kind of end both. It it's Okay. It's we need I I would feel more comfortable to stop defining this is what I mean, this is my church. Right. It's like, I I am the church, and this is where I'm meeting today, and and I'm also part of this you know, we need to kind of widen our horizons, break down the boundaries a little bit.

I agree. Thought. Okay. Any other thoughts on that? Sounds like there's advantages to both styles. Go with where go with where the alert's leading you. Just make sure that you're not running away from anything, and and you should be good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And as you can hide in either one. Right? Like, you can hide in a in 5 in $5. You can hide in 5 because you're hiding from the other 100 You're hiding from the $5? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean and and, you know, that's the thing. And we we've kinda talked about this on the show before. It's like, there's there's part of me that that likes the idea of of living in some sort of weird shack out 50 miles or a 100 miles from the nearest bird. But the truth is that, like, that's not God's work. God's work is not me living in a shack away from birds. Like, it's it's simply around people. And so, the level of influence you have is simply the question is is where does God have you? He could have you in a in a year or two around 10 guys for twenty years. And if that's where he's got you, thumbs up, man. If he's got you in in in a larger platform, hold your breath and dive in. It's it's it's more about an obedience thing than about a picture or fulfilling an expectation that we said God has it has to be this way. Because, you know, if you were to walk in on a first century church somewhere around 8065, you're gonna see a random smattering of how people are getting together

and in sizes of groups and where and and that type of thing. So Hey. Our our little group we have here around the radio studio is church for me. I mean, I thoroughly enjoy this. This is part of my I consider this part of my my worship experience in in in church. Yeah. And and I suppose I suppose that that even the necessity of the question is based upon church as an event. Mhmm. Right. Right. As opposed to a community of believers getting together, studying, talking about Jesus, that that kind of thing. Right? And so, like, we ask these types of questions because we're like, does my event qualify?

Yeah. And, like, I suppose the premise of the question is is the wrong thing that we're considering. Right? Alright. Do wanna hear like, it's not really the secular answer, the relevant answer. He says, I applaud you for asking this question. I really do. Because while we're clearly going to get into a lengthy talk oh, we're not I'm not gonna read a lengthy talk about what the church is and isn't. I don't wanna ignore the fact that every turn in your inquiry, you're doing your best to be the man God has designed you to be, and that matters. Matters. I'm proud of you for still seeking community. I didn't notice that there was any type of striving. Seemed like a pretty basic question. Yeah. You might I don't really wanna get rid this. This thing up. If, let's see. Now let's talk about your church of the holy dinner party. Question one, are you eating good food at this party? If not, please quit the sacrilege and return to wherever you came from. However, if you're eating wonderful breads and cheeses and wine and sweet bites, you may continue to the next paragraph. Does it really say that? Yeah. It does. That's what it said. The guy's got a great sense of humor. I was gonna say, I'm taking that sarcasm. Okay. And

for this portion of the conversation, I'm bringing in a big gun, namely Chad Turnbull, is the director of distributing the church in Northland, a church distributor. Chad's role and really his wild eyed calling is leading a wonderful this seems like all bogus. Hold on. Let's get to his main question. He basically wants to know if it's okay that we have church around a dinner table instead of coming to church on Sunday. What say you? I say that the question, while a very good and thoughtful question, is respectfully operating under the wrong paradigm. Mark and really a lot of us think of churches as buildings locations, but I want us to move to the center of gravity from what it means to be the church outside of a building and to an identity and a community. Church is not a place, semicolon. Church is something that has to be rooted in relationship and common purpose. What is the church's purpose? It is a place that equips the works of saints to the work of ministry. It's a place that allows us to worship, glorify, and celebrate the glory of God. We see this in acts two in the temple courts as well as in Ephesians and all throughout the scripture. The church isn't for you. It is you. The church, you, are God's plan for the world, and at the center of gravity is on relationship, common purpose, not holding tightly to the where I go to church card, it changes how you live. It changes how you do your job, raise kids, and interact with someone at a grocery store because in all those places, you were at church.

So bold question. So because Mark's location doesn't define his church, what would you affirm and caution about his dinner party gatherings? First, I think it's really great that Mark is having a smaller personal group of people to live as the church and reflect the image of God together. I think that can be an extremely effective eagle for proclaiming the gospel together. Additionally, as they think through how they can best be the church, they must come back to who God is. This little phrase puts it well. I am equals. I am equals us for them there. You see what I'm saying? Okay. You lost me at that point. Yeah. This little phrase puts it well. I am equals us for them there. Yeah. No. That's quaint and, intangible.

Do you see what I'm saying? No. But no. You're not, sir. No. I know. Let me he'll describe it. I'll buy the T shirt, though. The dummy version, sir. Nobody could reflect the image of God in isolation. It's impossible. We can't live that out alone because God's nature is relationship. Boy, what does that say for Tom Hanks? He was cast away on that island. He hit a hit a a ball, didn't he? That counterball or something? Is that is that church? Is that a face relationship with Basically, that he can't know God in that circumstance.

He doesn't have any friends. And on a more practical level, Tom Hanks, we can't live life alone because it robs us of the opportunity to use our gifts in the community that is proclaiming the gospel. For example, someone who's gifted in the area of hospitality you're right. That's awkward. Can't expect you pick the one gift that you have to have someone else around for. I serve other people. There's no other people. Well, shucks. Looks like I'm useless. But I will make myself happy. I can't I can't live in this community. I'm gonna give me Oh, me. You're wonderful. I love to encourage you. You've outdone yourself myself. Yeah. But how do you give, teach, pray, or well, obviously, you can pray on your own, but preach.

All these are are communal oriented gifts. Yeah. Most of the gifts are something that require a giver and a receiver. So Does a mirror count? A mirror? Probably not. It's like he's like a man. That's the most vain thing you could possibly do. Try and hand over some money to your mirror. I exhorted him, and he was gracious. You're looking wonderful today, mate. Thank you. As far as cautions go, I'd warn them against staying too connected and becoming isolated from people outside the group, believers and nonbelievers. This defeats any definition you may use for church. Also, too much denim is bad news. Finally, I'd say that he I threw that in for good measure. It's a it's a homeschool caution and a church caution as well. Finally, I'd say to Mark that it's great that he feels closer to God when he's having dinner with friends. But feeling closer, well, that's not the point of your life. If it was all about feeling closer to God, you have just gone to heaven the moment you became a Christian so that you could be right next to him all the time. It comes back to the reality that God's plan is communities of people, serving Jesus and transforming the world. You can't change the world alone, but in a group, you can do significant things as there's real power as your gifts find full expression in that collective. Unless, of course, your charm hangs on that island, and then you just can't contribute anything positive to the Christian walk.

He's got another 10 paragraphs. I I like what he was saying about you you are the church. So if you're at the grocery store, guess what? You are the church right there. It it really changes the the paradigm from from events and locations and yeah. Yeah. Sure. Go ahead. That's very true, but don't make don't make it weird for everybody at the grocery store. Don't, like, stand in front and go, welcome to church, everybody. I'm glad you've come. We have lettuce. We have lettuce over there.

Communion is a little bit different. He's in the wine aisle. Get him. You you have to you have to grab the grape juice. I'm just saying. You gotta be that creepy dude. It's just like, hey, Wine and crackers were free. Welcome to the church of Panera. Actually, that's probably the best caution. Like, while in theory, I I I really do enjoy the the the small group home church vibe. But like, it is true. Like, if if you really love that vibe, then you know it's not the place for you because then you won't invite anybody to it. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you love the small group, you know, small church, a home church deal, and you meet people that need to be a part of it and you don't wanna invite them because you don't want your your community to get any bigger, then, yeah, that's not a place for you. You know, you're you're in there for the wrong reason. Man, your church growth percentage would make a lot of sense if you can say, hey, man. We had four people. Now we have five. We increased 20% of our church this year. Tithing is down though, Bob.

Yeah. Guess I who didn't we know who didn't tithe this time. I used some of the tithe money to buy this whiteboard so I can tell you that you're not tithing very well. The church office aka my living room. I put, all the non tithers will have their names on the refrigerator. Are you on the sticky note? Yeah. How do you spell Morris? Morris, how do you spell that?

Hey, you know, I kinda like this concept of of be like of, the church now with free delivery. I feel like that is the right banner of which we should be functioning. Let's go have church at a grocery store this week, guys. Yeah. We do we do house calls. We also might drop by the Spaghetti Works. The church of us, we do house calls. Alright. Alright. So I I that's that's I here here's the deal. Yeah. That's fine. Go with Jesus. Be like, do what Jesus has you doing. He might have you in that year. That's fine. But don't run. I'm like, I would here's the deal. I feel like I'd be very uncomfortable in a church that's got, like that requires more than three digits to count it. And even then, it's probably pushing it for me. However, I have to be open to the fact that there might be something God has going on that I could be open to there. So, anyway, I I suppose just just keep it keep an eye open. Keep your knees down.

See what God's got in your life. Did you just say you're uncomfortable in churches over a 100? No. I know. That require more than three digits. So it'd be a thousand or above. Tower. Yeah. 999. You're good. Yeah. Once Jerry walks in, I'm out. It's it's really awkward to not know people in your community who have literally been there for a year. You know what I'm saying? Like That's very I think I had someone greet me at church last week. It was like, are you new here? Like,

I've been here for five years. Mike, I just forget your face sometimes. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm here all the time. Who are you? I've been here my chair. Been here since day one. I I try to be kinda gracious about it, but like, no. I you know, I've been here for a while. Maybe we just haven't met. You know? And I'm like, it's not like I have a giant ego that I think people should know me about. Know who I am? I literally walk here. I have one of Sunday. I'm all over the place. You know? Now that's Mike's like, you're on the stage two weeks out of four at least. Here's the deal. I I didn't I it was kind of a shot to my humbleness. I'm like, wow. People don't even notice that you're up there. I'm like, worship is going well then. You know what I'm saying? They should literally not know who's playing the instruments and be focusing on Jesus. I'm like, you know what? I'm very happy about this also slightly disappointed. That's why God doesn't let me play instruments. So this, this Sunday, like, Dave was Dave was preaching and, like, the band you know, the band goes up when there's, like, a few minutes left, as, like, you know, the sermon hook. And so, but I I, like, I was starting to walk up there, and I stopped because I thought, like, where I was sitting, I was playing the cajon this week, and where I was sitting, I and you you play the cajon, like, gotta have your head down most of the time, and I thought my bald head is gonna be a distraction from Dave's sermon

because I'm up close to the front of the stage, and my bald head will shine. I thought, I'm gonna hang back. That's good move. It was nice. You're welcome, Herrick. Thank you. Alright. Alright. That's it. Here we go. Pope Pope style advice.

Feels wrong to introduce myself. Someone introduce me. Okay. So this is the premise of Pope style advice. So what has happened is, some local hooligans have told a bunch of people that Ben is actually the pope. So a a couple 100 people have showed up at Ben's, Ben's doorstep and and have said, hey. You know, we're here. We're here for advice. We need some life changing stuff that's gonna be relevant to us and relevant to his life, and we're not gonna get off his lawn until he gives us this, this nugget of of pope wisdom. So Ben is about to give us some pope style advice that relates to his life to get a couple 100 people off his lawn. Go ahead, Ben. Okay. So pope style advice,

with minor bits of hesitance, I'm gonna say you really need to drop your expectations, like, expectations, specifically

when it comes to looking for how God is doing things in your life. And and here's here's how I got here, is is that, like, a lot of times when we when we have frustration with what's going on in life, with with the things that have happened and we've petitioned God or we expected him to intervene in some way.

And then if it doesn't happen that way, our natural reaction is good. It's like, God, I'm kinda I'm kinda upset about this. Right? Like, this is this doesn't go the way I thought it would. And and I think that's a natural reaction. Right? Like, if we seek and knock and we're asking and it doesn't go the way we expect it to, and then we're like, now what am I supposed to think? God didn't do kind of what I was was expecting him to do. But the question here, and this is this is where this this came from, is like, look look at the Pharisees. Right? You had a a circumstance in which these the Pharisees believed God's promises. God said, this is what's going to happen. Right? There's going to be a messiah. You're going to see, these things happen. And the Pharisees believed that. They trusted God that those things would happen. But they assumed

they had this thought that this was the certain way of which God was going to act. And when they got caught up in that, they literally missed Jesus right in front of them. Right? Believed God, assumed he would do what he would do, but because you thought it was gonna happen in a specific way and it wasn't happening that way, you've missed Jesus. And so I wonder if we're running into that in some of the things that go on in our lives. So we say, God, this is this is what I'm petitioning you for. And then we have an idea of how we think god is going to solve this problem or or change this situation.

And and when he doesn't do it the way that we expect or in the timing that we expect, we get frustrated. We think maybe I don't weird things. Like, maybe I don't have enough faith. Maybe God is not faithful. Maybe God is not who he says he is. Maybe he's a mean God. And, like, these these weird things call God's character into question. But the truth is is that the only thing, the only realistic thing that I can rely on and expect is God will be faithful to his character. That is that is the truth. But the ways in which that character plays itself out, the ways in which it intervenes in the world, I just I feel like a lot of kind of our our our issues that we run into in understanding

god and and and his interaction in the world is because we assumed that we thought of the best way for god to intervene and that he would do that. And so I I guess my advice is is that that be careful that, like, you didn't set expectations on God of which of which you thought, here's how God will do it. Because the truth is is that when you came up with that, like, what you came up with was something that your mind was capable of coming up with that is limited to your perspective and your ability to see the world from your own chair, of which God has a much broader and higher perspective. And so I I think to a certain extent,

we need to be trust in his character and expect that it is completely reasonable expectation to hold God to his character. He will be who he is. But anything beyond that, I think we run risks of not only, like, putting ourselves in a position to to be on the other side of what God is doing, but also not of missing Jesus. Like, saying this is how God is going to act, and he doesn't act the way that we are. We actually might miss Jesus acting in our circumstance because we weren't looking for him just to act. We were looking for him to act in the way that we expected him to. And so so I think we gotta drop I I think you gotta lose your expectations

a little bit. And here's here's where my hesitancy is in this. Because now I if that is the case, and I I I feel pretty confident that it is, it then calls into question, so so what am I how am I praying? What am I like, if I'm asking for God for something to do specifically, should I not keep an eye out for that?

And and and what does that mean between how we how we kind of interact and petition God, and then what we can expect for God to react? Because the truth is that he will act in his character, and I just want to see it. I just wanna be able to see what it is, whether he does it the way I wanted to or does it there's something else completely different way or doesn't even do anything. Can I see him in that? I think that's the lofty thing, the thing that I want to do, but I I I don't know. I I starts to to kinda mess with some of my, I think, my previous understandings of prayer. So that is my that is my advice,

and I I guess I'm telling you to get off my lawn and handle it prayerfully. But with the caveat that I'm I'm still kind of, even in response, praying through that on on what that means for my relationship with God and how I pray and how he interacts with the world and and what I'm petitioning for and what I should look for and encourage other people to do. That's my pope my, I don't know, half witted pope style advice for the night. So I would I would ask and and

I would ask the question, if you had if you had to state and this is gonna be hard to sum up. Right? Because I I get what you're saying when you're saying, like, god will be true to his character. Like, I can say that god is just. You don't just don't know in which way he is just. Right? He holds all the cards. I hold one. And so some things don't look just to me, but in turn are just, you know, either way. But, like, what is God's goal with his interaction with his people?

All of his people. To build trust. K. He wants us to trust him.

So, like, is that is that a is that a character of God that I can that I can fall back on? Like because what like, I wouldn't know how do I know it's him? You know what I'm saying? Like, because I can attribute a lot of things to his character because I'm only holding one card. And so if I only see one card, like, based

on that fact, which I I don't think that I disagree with you, but I'm just trying to figure out how do I figure out if God is is interacting in my life. If if I see, you know, a bad thing happen, I can attribute it to God and say, look, he holds all the cards. He's prob he's he's obviously doing the right thing. And then a great thing happens, and I'm like, he holds all the cards. He's probably obviously doing the right thing. But how would I ever know whether it really is him, or it's just something? So so and, again, this is, I think, my reaction to that would be that's kind of a faithful in the means God handles the ends. Right? Like,

are my ends do I do I need to be invested in those ends? But but I it brings up the same question. The thing I think you're getting at is the thing where my hesitancy lies, which is if if god wants to build trust with his people,

and we never have an appropriate we never have a a guidepost, a reaction point to see that that's the case. And maybe that gets to what I was getting at, which is maybe my prayer more so is like, god help me. Here's here's what I want. Here's what I'm petitioning you for. Regardless of what happens, can I help me to see you in it so that that that trust is built? Right? So that I understand, I can see your hand. And I may not understand the big picture. The the kids and I have been reading Uncle Tom's Cabin. Well, my oldest and I've been reading Uncle Tom's Cabin. And and it doesn't it doesn't really matter, I guess, how familiar you are with the book, but, like, basically, you see kind of the consistent thing demonstrated. It happened in in Jesus' life, and it happens in in the lives of of kind of this main character, Tom, of which the the way that he acts is foolishness to the world. Right? But it is it is it is perfect trust that God will handle these things, and his faithfulness in the means ultimately produce the the ends that you would have expected. Right? The influence on people. The man in the lowest position in life has the ability to influence someone to the highest possible outcome of life, which is to know Jesus. And so,

it's one of those things where, like, you can't the big picture is this this man suffers and ultimately dies at the hands of a very cruel man. And but in the perspective of heaven, there are there are, I mean, dozens of people, if not hundreds that will ultimately be influenced for the kingdom because of the life that that guy lived. And he will never see that same perspective that otherwise God has. And you could look from an outsider and say, how could God let such a cruel thing happen? Or how can God let this thing happen to these people or this circumstance? It's just it's not fair. It's not right. And in a grander scale though, like, I will never be able to have God's perspective unless he shares it with me. And so can I trust that his perspective is greater? And so even though a a righteous and faithful man died,

what and and and from a worldly perspective, would say unnecessarily, like, that's the that's the case of the cross. Right? But but which accomplished a thing that has had such a revolutionary impact on the people around him. In Jesus' case, the world, like,

no one else besides Jesus would have been able to be afforded that same glimpse, but God's perspective otherwise saw that and it happened anyway. Can I be can I just trust in that? Can I just trust that his character is faithful even the things that I don't understand? It'd be a lot easier to to trust in a in a God who is just

dumber, quite frankly. If he was just a a genie in a magic lamp, you you just throw up your your prayer and your wish at him and then he does it. That that's real easy to trust in. It'd be much more mechanically. It'd be like a machine at that point with all the limited wisdom of a toaster. But he's more than just that, and thankfully,

is. And so he's not just gonna be yes to every prayer that that we throw at him. And that's when it starts getting really a lot more complicated because now he's not a reflection of my will. Instead, I'm learning how to be a reflection of his will, and that requires him building trust in me, which isn't just an automatic yes to everything that I say, and it's not an automatic no either. It's him guiding me and and being gentle with me and and when I need to be when he needs to be gentle and being firm when he needs to be firm. It's it's more the relationship of a father to a son than it is of a person to a machine.

And a lot of times, just in our ignorance, we'll come to God with an idea about how we think he should be acting. And obviously, he's gonna disappoint because he's not a god in our image. He's himself. And how we respond to that is very telling because we can either come away disappointed saying, well, you're apparently not a god who's a reflection of my will.

And then we we walk away because he's now disappointed us. Well, that's because he's even greater. We need to lift our eyes up. We need to understand that he's bigger. His his perspective is larger. He he's he has more wisdom than he brings to the table. But how how would someone who doesn't know God know that? You know what I'm saying? Like, that that that that's kinda where I find the the caveat. Don't once again, I don't say that I disagree, but like Yep. How do you how do you tell someone to trust a God that they don't know with no interaction to prove that the trust is

even, you know, worth it or available? Right? The machine that's the reason I trust my toaster. Right? I put toast in. I push the button, and it's and and it it put to puts toast out. Right? Like, every single time I ask it. Mhmm. It just keeps on doing it. And, like, I don't know that that's a I love this toaster because it works for me and does my bidding. Mhmm. I just like it because it's dependable. Mhmm. And and, like, as as your interactions with god go and and, you know, when you suggest that maybe that you you lose some of your expectation of of how god is gonna handle something, I I I think I agree with that. His sovereignty kinda covers that. Mhmm. But like if I can't expect

anything from him or or or or to tell whether it came from, I can't, I don't know how I can legitimately say that I trust that. Because basically, what would end up happening is and if if I'm being real honest here, what would end up, I would I would live an entire life hoping that I was trusting God. Mhmm. But not really knowing him at all because I know I should trust him and not question him and I don't know. I guess I don't know him. Mhmm. I don't know whether to expect something from him. I don't know whether I actually did something. Yeah. And like the only Bible verse that comes to my head when I was trying to think through this was, the sheep know my voice. Right? To know whether something's coming from god or not. But like,

I know that I sit on that fence sometimes where I'm like, I don't know I don't know what you're doing and I I I really don't care if it's if you go this way or go that way. I just I just wanna know it's you. I just wanna know it's you that's that's pushing the button. Yeah. You need a trusted mediator. It's something like you're talking about toasting a toaster. My my parents have a machine. It's a Blu ray player, and they they just it it boggles them. They can't figure it out. It still flashes 12:00 and or something.

And and so they need me to come along and kinda show them just how some of the buttons work and and how to get Netflix on it and and some of these things. And once I've shown them how they can, interact with this a little bit better and use it for what it's what it's intended to, now they're getting more out of out of the machine. They're they're essentially, their relationship with this machine is no longer something that that's so baffling to them. They they can understand it better. And that's just me to a machine. It it works as well for person to person. The way that I usually will build trust within another person is getting to know them. I'm able to talk with them, but I'm an introvert. I don't like going out and just meeting strangers out of nowhere. I I like having someone that I already trust introduce me to someone that they trust

and them pointing to them and saying, hey. This is a trustworthy person. And then I am more than willing to to start building that that trust, having someone kinda help mediate that relationship. Because, as we build and we become vulnerable with our trust, some of those expectations go unmet.

And relationships require maintenance, and especially in Middle Eastern culture, you have to have someone in between that you both trust who can help to keep the maintenance going on that relationship. Someone that you can both go to and say, hey. Something's going on really weird here. Can you tell me a little bit about this person and how you know, what's going on with this? Just someone who could stand there in between and say, here's what I see going on. Why don't you guys try communicating a little bit differently?

Maybe you're approaching each other with just the wrong sort of expectations. And what's really cool is that's exactly what Jesus is. He he's someone who he was a human being, and he was God. And so he came and he met these these 12 guys and introduced himself, and now all of a sudden these 12 guys know him and trust him. And so now God's in this trusting relationship with humanity because of a mediator, a trusted mediator. And then those guys introduced

everyone that they knew to God, and they introduced everyone that they knew as well. And so someone who knows God, ends up trusting him and then going to their friends and saying, hey, I trust God. Why don't you trust him too? And let me help you along in that. Right. Right. That that's, that's the whole notion of discipleship. Right? It's like coming to know God from somebody that already knows him. Mhmm. And so between between the witness of other people and

and scripture, like, maybe that that's the way that we get to know God. And I you know, one of things I I thought about when you were talking is is I think sometimes and I I'm struggling with this, I think, in my own life. I'm trying to understand how how what this changes about my life. But, like, I think we end up in a spot where we may not see God because the things that we're asking don't require him. Right? Like, we we we ask, we seek to see God's hands in things that we are capable of accomplishing on our own. I could get this job on my own on my own skills, under my own position. I could accomplish x y z. Like, we if we're not in the habit of asking things that require god's hand,

then it probably diminishes the amount of time that we'll actually see it. We're actually into a lot of times, we're just asking to endorse human level things, and not asking him to actually in involve himself. And and what what I'm struggling is is, like, I'm not sure what that looks like because I think that's what I always do. I think I traditionally have said, you know, help me figure out how to do x, y, and z. How can I solve a human level problem with the human intellect? Give me the wisdom. Give me with you know, like, things that I could possibly do on my own. I very rarely ask God for something that says, I I this will completely fail if your hand is not in it. And so and so we miss that experience. But the truth is is, like, I have seen that in other people's lives, though. Like, that and that's that's where the this this sense of community and and knowing someone that knows Jesus. And you I I was giving that example to one of my kids, when we were praying, she was she was like, sometimes I wonder how do I how do I know if I if I love God, and how do I know God is actually there? And I said, one of the things, babe, that you're gonna notice is that

God will will do things not only in in in your life or in specific people's lives just for their benefit, but it's for the benefit of their community. There's people that we know within our church family that I can look at their lives and say, God is doing something. God is God is up to something, and that is not only for them. God is revealing himself to his people through how he interacts with other people. It doesn't have to happen to me personally. I it it happens in my community, and God has reveals himself that way. And so I you're right. I think we're gonna struggle if our expectation is to say, you know, I I need I need something for you to demonstrate to me specifically that that I can trust you when otherwise he uses community around us. He's used scripture to verdict. Mean, that's it's a basic conversation that Jesus is having with the pharisees. I am who I say I am. Miracle proves that. Right? It's it's never a magic trick. It's always a validation that you can trust me. I am who I say I am. This is my identity.

And, and then, like, I think he's he still does that when he acts in other people's lives, and that is to be a witness to those that are around around the community so they can see that those things happen. And that's, I think, where that trust is established. But I think sometimes we miss it because we simply you can be in a great community where no one ever sees that because

we we got god involved in in just human sized problems. I'm not saying god doesn't care about those, but what I'm saying is is that, like, he's he's much bigger than some of the things that we ask. And, and we may be limiting our we're we're we're a little bit blind in that respect because if we didn't ask for it, we're liable to to chalk stuff up to coincidence or just a random happenstance. But if we're like, you're either in this or it's gonna bomb, you know god shows up. And we we're not testing him, but it's the thought process that says, I need you in this. I cannot accomplish this on my own. And I to be honest with you, I think as we as we step out in faith in that way, I think you just tend to see it more clearly because your eyes are open to catch it. Alright. Maybe paw maybe ponder that for me, boys. It's it's just just something I was thinking about, and the the truth is is that, like, it's it's it's it's kind of an unwelcome thing at times. Right? Because the the the easiest thing, especially when you get in a tough spot, it's easy from a from a high mountain to be like, this is the right way. Lose all expectation. If if the the person that you're praying for, you know, maybe that maybe they're sick or maybe they're away from Jesus and or maybe whatever, and you're like, I expect this to happen this way. I want this to happen this way. And and I'm saying you don't get to be angry with God if it doesn't happen because your expectation is wrong. And frankly, you can believe God and still be a Pharisee and miss Jesus. Like, that's a that's a hard word when you're looking at at human lives. I just think it's actually where faith is. The faith in saying, like, I don't have to trust a circumstance or a set of events.

I know God's character is true. Help me to see your character in this. Help me to see you in these things so that I may so that I may worship you in that in response to it. And the the problem is is that, like, I think with that's hard for us because it it makes god seem, seem callous and above. But the truth is is that, like, for the things that we grieve, he grieves. He's a father. Right? Like, it he gets those things. It's just he just has a greater perspective,

and either I trust that or I don't. And you know what? The I was thinking about something similar to that when when, we're doing a summation of the of the sermon on the mount, last last Sunday, and it got me to thinking is, like, the the reason we don't follow those some of the things that he's asking, some these radical things is, like, we can make a bunch of other excuses about where our culture is at, about whether we we think it doesn't apply to us in one way or other, but the truth is we don't believe it. We do not believe it is the best program

To to to be as to be as as gracious and free with our money that the Bible calls us to, we simply don't trust that that's accurate. Otherwise, you would do it. You would do it if you thought that that was the best. And and we would think, well, god, you just this can't apply to this circumstance to be as as crazy, gracious, and forgiving and prayerful, or fast or whatever these things that that it calls us to. Like, even selfishly, I would do those things if I actually believe that there's no doubt about it. This is the best. But there's there's gotta be parts of me that's holding on to certain things that says I haven't committed to that fully

because I I just I'm I'm still not confident. And I think that's at least the honest reaction. It's not that we don't understand it. It's not that we, that you can't really be honest and say, oh, I feel like that's probably just a cultural item. The truth is is that when he says to give to the extent that he calls us to give, I think we frankly just don't trust it and say this is this is not this is not only, like, it's a good idea and a righteousness issue. It's not the best. We just don't believe it's the best, and that and that's misguided. And I think it's I think we have to be honest and see those things through that filter, but it's it's the same thing. Do I trust God when he says? Do I trust his character? Do I trust when he says this is the thing? That that's the thing, and and that's the root of all faith. Do I believe? Do I have I put have I taken tangible steps that show that, like, I'm actually placing my faith in God? And and to be honest, if that's the rudimentary distinction that we make in our faith with Christ, think of how far a lot of times we are from that. When when our belief is a cognitive ability as opposed to, no. I trust that what you say is true, and I react because it's because it's accurate.

I I think there's just a greater distance between how we see belief and what the bible is calling from a belief perspective, and it's I think we have to at least be honest so that we can understand where we're actually sitting, where we're actually putting our faith. Alright. That's it. That's it. I'll pray on that, fellas. Like, you guys are listening. Just pray through that stuff. It it feels and it sounds right to me. It sounds faithful to me. I just it's I've been stewing on it, and there's just a little bit of hesitancy. And maybe it's just because the what the weight of it does for what I'm not trusting or what expectations I may have set out that need to die.

But anyway, pray on that. And and I'll be doing it too, and we'll just see if that continues to shake out. It's just it sniffs right to me, though. Alright. It's a hard word. Who can take it? Who can take it? You've been listening to live from the Path. Hey. Before we get any further, I wanted to give a big thanks to our sponsors. Bob Eiselin with the Eiselin Lower team. Go to eiselinlowerteam.com. Hook up with Bob and and the rest of the guys with the Eiselin Lower team. Now may or may not be a time to buy or sell a house. Bob knows those types of things. He's he is your guy. I've had an awesome experience working with him and his team. So was Mike.

He's always he comes on the show. He's real gracious with his time, And they're just all around solid people to deal with. And and so I I I I would advocate for them whether their response is here or not. I just they do solid work, and I love those guys. So hook up with the Eisenhower team. Go to eisenhowerteam.com. Even if you don't know whether you're in you're you're just kinda batting around selling your house, you wanna see what it's worth or see what you could get out of it or just see what's out there, yeah, just give him a call, man. He's in that business. He knows that stuff. He can help you out. So do that. Also, Westfield Veterinary Hospital. Go to westfieldvethospital.com.

This is for all your pet care needs. Dog, Mike, did you get your pig in there? The lady did not get the pig in there like she was supposed to. Oh, shoot. Shoot. I was worried. Here's the deal though. I did grease the pig. What do mean? And it is just as hard to catch as people have have envisioned. I I don't understand. Why did why did you actually do that? You greased your pig? Yeah. Well, they have dry skin. And that's why they grease them. Like, you put some oil on them, whatever, try to keep their skin from drying out. But, yeah, they're they're slick. Okay? This sounds like a precursor to a good morning meal.

No. Eric, why do you always wanna eat every animal I get? Every time I get an animal, you're like, hey, it's Hey, man. I'm completely on board with eating that pig. The clean ones. No. I've I've already told you that I'm happy to eat that pig. I don't here's the deal. Y'all are not invited to my house no more. If every time, like you cartoon style, see a drumstick with legs walking around. I'm sorry. Stop looking at my animals now. Are surprised by that statement? I house sit it for you one week. You're you're lucky you came back with animals. I did have to get rid of a goat this week though. What? He was getting a little offensive towards the lady. He's getting a little older and he's starting to be a little territorial and the woman would go down and look for some to pick up the eggs from the chickens or whatever. And this guy would get a little get a little buddy. Mhmm. And so I went down there with half a two by four thinking there was gonna be a comeuppance. You know, it was like, I'm gonna have to block him off, you know, but he stayed away from me but I, yeah, I thought, man, I can't. If I can't trust him, we're gonna have to get rid of him. So I had get rid of him. Here's deal, man. You ever need somebody to come down and teach those goats rules?

I'm happy to. Yeah. No. Yeah. Where'd go? Did you set him out free in the under or someone pick him up? Yeah. I gave him I packed him a lunch and put him a stick in a bandana. I said, I'm sorry. You just can't stay here anymore. It's not working out. It's really sad piano music going away. Left, look around there. Turn back every once in a while. I said, no, Billy. You keep going. It's like the end of the Hulk show. Yeah. Walking down the road hitchhiking. Wait. Do you know do you know his fate though? Like, did someone buy and eat him? No. They're keeping him. Oh. Yeah. You you told him he was a jerk. Right? Yeah. I said, I purposely said, look, we're getting rid of him because we don't like the way he behaves. He's he's aggressive and and we don't like him and they're like, you know, no problem. I thought, what kind of what goes on at your house? This is fine, you know. They train fighting goats. Hey, do you have a do you have a an unwieldy goat that causes a bunch of trouble? I'll pay for that. Yeah. Do you have this guy's number? I got some people I could direct their way. Here's a guy that has no expectations. You know what I'm saying? He's living the kingdom.

A really goat. Alright. Alright. Anyway, Westfield Veterinary Hospital. Go to westfieldvethospital.com. Hey. You can even sign up for appointments online, man. You can just go on there and and and set that up. I know it's it's at, like, 11:00 at night if you're listening to the live show, and you think, oh, man, I'll remember to do that tomorrow. No. You won't. No. You won't. You're gonna forget it. You're gonna you're gonna pick up the dry cleaning, you're gonna stop at the Hardee's, and you're gonna forget all about that stuff because those cinnamon raisin biscuits will throw your mind into a tizzy. And so just set that stuff up right now, and you're gonna be just fine. Westfieldhospital.com. Big thanks to those guys. And here's the deal. Even if you don't need to buy or sell a home, even if you don't need to take your pig into the Westfield Veterinary Hospital,

I want you to please, if you would, give those guys a call, send them an email, drop a note by their door, send them a beautiful bouquet of roses, and just say, hey. Thanks for sponsoring live from the Pathway. They they are what allows us to be on the air. So big big thanks to those guys for for supporting the show in that way. Hey, incidentally, in case you happen to be interested in sponsoring the show, get a hold of us. Hey, man. Shoot us an email. Info live from the path dot org. Mhmm. If we love you, I'll tell the nations. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here's the deal. Like, I if if we're being honest, like, we'll we'll probably wanna get to know you. Right? Like, we like to be able to say we, you know, we we our sponsors are people that we know and and that they put out a good product and and I think we'd love to do business with you. Yeah. So get a hold of us. Wait. If you're if you do good business, like, if you own a sub sandwich shop and you make terrible sub sandwiches, I I I won't let you come on the show just because you have money. Yeah. That and I will know. If you make junky sub sandwiches, like, I can't vouch for that. Yeah. We have we have very little integrity, but we're gonna hold it on that on that note right there. Exactly. Problem is I have no taste, so I I would like it. Okay. So I'll be a taste tester. Hudson can personally endorse terrible sub sandwiches. It

went down smooth. Hank's sandwich shop. Dan's like, yeah. Who can enjoy this? Who can enjoy this product without lying? Dan, it's a I didn't throw up for three hours. Was great. This is a this is a hard sandwich. It's like taking Hey.

Hey. Oh, man. We're gonna run up on a break before we get to the story. Real quick though. You guys seen this, Charlie Charlie challenge? Yes. Guys seen that stuff going around the net? Yes. This is freaking weird. I don't know I don't know what it is. Oh, man. Okay. Booba, explain it for Mike. So apparently, from what I've seen is people will, place two pencils on top of each other in an x, and then we'll place, four squares, and one says like no, and then no, and then yes, and yes. So basically, you ask Charlie, Charlie, and then ask a question.

Or like, are you here, basically? Or is this going to happen? And then something is supposed to happen to where the pencils that's on the top moves itself to where, like, a yes or a no or or an answer to your question. And it's it's freaking a bunch of people out, like, for the people who've actually done it and have seen it move, they get freaked out, and they'll they'll make this video, and they'll start screaming, and then they'll run away thinking, oh, no. There's a demon in my house or something like that. Yeah. Because it's, at the roof, though, it's supposed to be A Mexican demon. Yeah. Like, summoning a Wait a a Mexican demon. A Mexican demon. No. Here. Charlie. There he is, Mike. That's that's kind of the makeup of it. Well, that's not the actual picture, but Yeah. Yeah. That's the picture behind it. That's what I'm saying. Well, mean, it adds a little creep factor to it. It does. I can't control the Internet, buvo. Fair enough. Maybe you can control your Here's the deal. If if we're allowed on the Internet, someone else is too hot. I have a point. Okay. So, yeah. So you're supposed to be, not I wouldn't go as far as to say summoning this demon, but Well, that's that's what they think. That that's how it's supposed Supposedly, you're you're summoning this demon. I mean Charlie,

the Mexican That's what I'm saying. I mean, as far as demons go, like, legion is kind of a creepy name. Exactly. And Charlie is not. Now, we hear about these demons that possess an entire herd of pigs and all the different stuff. And then they hear about Charlie who's gonna show up and move a pencil. That's right. I move pencils. Yeah. Hey. Hey. I'm the pencil demon from Mexico. How you doing? My time is almost up. Your future says yes. Charlie Charlie, you hear? I feel like I have an office job now. Yeah. If it lands on the line, does that inherently mean a maybe?

Spin again. Yeah. It turns into an eight ball. Yeah. So Yeah. Exactly. They used to sell demons called eight balls. Yeah. I guess, do now. So so the concept is is there's the all these people and it's all the rage where people are freaking out saying, you know, Charlie's here. Charlie's here. Craziness. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And then go running out of their house or running out of the room and stuff like that. And then if you wanna laugh, go find all the the parody videos of it. It's actually really fun. Have you I mean, think of it. Think about this. If you balance a one pencil on top of another and then breathe at least mildly heavily, it will It will move. Yeah. Was gonna there's a demon by my heating vent because I can make a Kleenex move when I put in front of it. Put a little boogie in it. Hell. Did you just tell the end of a joke and not the beginning?

Yeah. To get to the other side. Anyway, I just I I hadn't heard it. Like, I heard somebody mention it. Oh, man. And I thought it was a band. I thought it was like an eighties band. Charlie Charlie. Durend. Like mister mister. That's cool. I thought, certainly, this is like an eighties retro band. Mister mister broke up and then became Charlie Charlie.

They reconvened with an actual first name. Here's here's the only thing I would say about this though is is like, do I think that's what's happening? No. Do you need to be jacking with that? No. No. There's absolutely no reason to be be sniffing around at stuff just like you you wanna you wanna take a take a peek see of some binoculars into that Ouija board. Here's the deal. Like, that stuff is truer than you realize whether this is a medium through which it happens or not. I'm gonna doubt. But but listen, this curiosity is going to be a problem in this area. You just don't need to be jacking with that stuff, Katelyn. There's things to leave on the net. That's one of them. Let it go. If you wanna get into the spiritual realm realm, come talk to us. I know a guy and Jesus is pretty awesome and seems to run that area and so let's just get right to the top. We'll skip all this Yeah. Some low level Mexican paper demon. Yeah. You're looking for like a Jorge Bar Jesus. Right. Exactly. It's not necessary. How much of a lack of discernment do you have in your life? You're like, you know, man, I I really need to start making better decisions. You know, I really think that that I saw this on the Internet once that I should be putting a pencil on top of another pencil and then asking some Mexican demon named Charlie,

to give me yes or noes. Why did he move to Mexico? He has such like a New Jersey name. It is. It it is. It did not apples to apples. Right? Hey. Can you can you take away my sin and give me your righteousness? Yes. Can you move a pencil? It's like, god god's sitting back like, created everything. It's like, hey, you know those pencils he moved? I built it. Yeah. You know what? And sometimes I just see god and like like this is terrible. A characterization of all the sovereign lord. But like, with a face palm going,

I offer you everything. And that is the most epic face you palm. Have wide ruled paper. Just and pencils. Maybe that's a new maybe that's a new, description. You always tell kids like there's there's, angels bowling or whatever like thunder is actually the face palm of God. He's like, come on. Charlie, Charlie. The hand that can hold the Pleiades in the span of it just goes, oh. Yep. Pencils and paper. World's largest. And guys, so stupid. Seriously. I need advice in my life. Well, I heard there's a Mexican demon you can talk to. Oh, it's really creepy. It's not even like, it's not even written in in Spanish. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's English. Yes and no. Exactly.

Yeah. Jose Jose, are you here? I don't know why he's living in Mexico. Like, of all the places. It's it's because where he was originally from, they made fun of him because all he could do was move pencils. They were like, they're gonna they're gonna love me down there. That'd be great. Alright.

You're listening to life rapper. Alright. Here's the deal. If you're listening Put a little boogie in there. The devil invented the Internet. I'm telling you. He did. I don't care what people say. We can redeem it. No. No. You can't.

Hey, man. It can be for good. Nope. We're on the Internet. I was gonna say something. Hey. What am I saying? Alright. You're listening to Life From The Path. Hopefully, not on the Internet, I guess. If you listen The radio is blessed by Jesus. The

Internet definitely Only AM. Only AM. Only AM. Not that. FM cannot be redeemed either. You're you're listening to a very shifty Truth Network, ninety nine point three FM. Thanks for hanging out with us. Hey, if you're on the podcast, hang tight. We'll probably go we got some

more stuff to talk about. Big thanks to our sponsors, Bob Eisel with the Eiselauer team and Westfield Veterinary Hospital. If you wanna find us during the week, go to lifeonthepath.org. And here's the deal. More than ever, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. Thanks for listening to Life from the Path. Well, it's too late. It's too late. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. No. I forgot. I was supposed to well, I said if you're listening to the podcast, you're right. I say that every week, man. We do, but we don't. People people don't realize we need to give it more. I can't keep up with the podcast. Hey, if you're on the podcast, realize we have a podcast.

If you didn't know while listening to the podcast. It's all on the internet. Here's the deal. Tell me. We're gonna we're gonna let you in on a little bit of business here at The Life and Path. We need more people to listen to the show. We really do. I mean, I'm having a hard time looking my wife in the eye anymore. No. Actually, I was,

I was I was doing some stuff this weekend, and, I met a guy, and he he recognized, my voice. And and it turns out he listens to the show, and I will be dead honest. I was flabbergasted. That's

not a good thing. I thought It's humility incarnate. I thought I cannot Was was it Pete? No. It wasn't even Pete. It would hey, Pete. It wasn't the one known user of the show that we know about. It it was a legit human man that was in front of me and that he listens to the program and I thought I thought I I I really had no idea. Was it Charlie Charlie? Did you ask Charlie Charlie if he list to? I did. I all I had was a was a was a bick. I only if I only have one pencil, can I take it off? It's just it didn't work out. Alright. Let's see. What else? Mike, you got some,

dear life from the path? I do. You ready? Yep. Dear life from the path. I've been married to my husband a little over a year. He's a wonderful man, but I feel he's a little too attached to his mother. She lives about twenty minutes away, and he wants to go visit her almost every day. Her mother is a very negative his mother is a very negative person. She isn't mean, and we get along well, but her negativity is overwhelming. She finds joy in practically nothing, and I always leave feeling agitated.

I have talked with my husband about this before, and his response is, that's how some old people are. I I could put up with it a few times a week, but this everyday thing is wearing on me. How can I get my husband to understand how I'm feeling without hurting his mother's feelings? No joy. Hey. That mama's boy is a phrase that stuck around for a reason. That stuff's hard to shake, I think. I mean, can you legit visit your mom every day after you're married to a man? I mean, unless she's in your care because there's, you know Yeah. Physically unable to do stuff or something. Apparently, can if she lives twenty minutes away. Twenty minutes is not right around the corner. Yeah. Like, next door would I mean, my mom's been, like, ten minutes away from me. Said me, but the gas station's like, I don't know, ma. I got some stuff brewing. I mean, even if you're not married Pizza's in the oven. What kind of adult

Every every day. I mean, every day? Hey, mom. Just thought I'd stop by. I feel like I mean, what once in a while, all I of the feel like I kinda wanna give some advice to his mom. It's just like, hey, ma. I get that you love your son. Like, that's great, but he he's got a wife now, and he needs to be there all the time Yeah. Rather than coming because I I doubt it's a twenty minute drive and then a five minute conversation. Well, I mean and the and the wife does not have to go with him. You know what saying? But, like No. But I'm not gonna visit your mom every day. How does she not notice this when they were dating? Yeah. It's not like this just happened. Yeah. Which, you know, that's too late. It's too bad. Sorry. Should've been paying him more attention.

But, wow. I'd even say he needs to grow up, but I'm thinking, I don't know if he ever will. He that's who he is. Well, we're giving up on him, Dan. Yeah. I feel bad. Feel bad, I'm I've given up on him. It doesn't sound like this gal has had having a little bit issue even saying this having the right conversation with the guy. It seems like she's had the conversation of she's negative.

I don't wanna go over there. Right. Okay. Yeah. And then he says he's visiting all the time or that she's a negative? No. Think the problem is that he's visiting all the time because that's her first comment. Yeah. It is is we go over there every single day. He's a bit of a mama's boy. I think that the wife needs to have a conversation with her husband and say, hey, you know, Gerald, whatever his name is, you know, I I I love you and I'm glad that we're in this relationship together. It sounds like he runs a hooch parlor. Well, any of Regular man's name? Because the only other name came was Charlie, and I didn't wanna use that one, so so Gerald it was. It sounds like this guy needs to have, or the gal needs to have a conversation with her husband saying, you know, I I get we've talked about this from the perspective of your mom's a a negative Nancy, but really more from the perspective of, you know, we're in a relationship now, and we need to be spending time together, and I we I don't see the point of going over there every single day. I would like for us to spend time together at home and not go there every day. Here's the thing, though. I think Dan's nailed it. Right? Because that conversation's not gonna go well. It's not The guy's gonna say, look, there's no reason I I'm I'm visiting my mom. There's no reason that I shouldn't be able to have a relationship with my mom. You're being too needy and clingy. Like, I can hear this guy coming from six miles away. What else can we do? Hold on. Here here's here's here's how you put it. You say, Gerald,

is it? You say, Gerald. You stick with me on this. You say, Gerald, if you and your mom were both naked in the living room, would you feel no shame? And he would say, no. That would be awkward. And I would say, that's correct. The Bible says, you and your wife are to be naked and feel no shame. Go home. That's how I would handle that. That's way less awkward than the other way that I Yeah. Was just gonna Hey.

This is how you solve problems. You confront them awkwardly in the room and see what comes out. Yeah. You confront them awkwardly in a way that's not actually gonna affect this guy? No. No. No. No. The man leaves his father and mother and he's united to his wife, and they become one flesh, and they're naked and feel no shame. Does mama's boy sound like that that like, he's gonna be affected very well by the next day? I'm not I you know, at first, I was overly disgusted by Ben's tactic, but actually, I feel that that might actually be effective. Like, here's the deal, because, like, a guy likes that is not putting his marriage in perspective. That's what I'm saying. He's not he's not looking he's not looking at his life correctly. And so, I mean, maybe that's not the exact best way to This is the right way to handle it. But you need he's gotta have some way to change perspective on the way that he's viewed. And and frankly, I mean, they're they've been married just over a year. The first year is a lot of you figuring out how to how to be with somebody. How, you know, I mean, if you're trying to do this in the long term, then then you start I mean, every nook and cranny ends up go getting gone through, and there's a lot of awkward and there's a lot of figuring out how you guys are gonna do handle x and and and this and whatever and she probably should have seen this coming. I think Dan's probably right about that but like,

you know, you're right. I think she's deflecting to the mom as negative. The mom, it could be negative. Whatever. She can do whatever she wants. She lives over there. You know? She lives at her own place. But, yeah, your conversations with your husband and how often he's visiting opposed to how this woman behaves. I've already laid down the gauntlet. Secular says, you and your husband are married, not joined at the hip. If he wants to see his mother every day, that's fine. But you should not be obligated to go with him more than a couple times a week if you don't want to. He feels he needs to give her an explanation for your absence. He should tell her you are busy with things you need to do. It's polite. It's logical. And I'm sure you will find errands or tasks of which to fill the time. It's polite. It's logical, and it's a blatant lie to your mother. Absolutely.

I'm sure the negative lady is gonna go, oh yeah, that sounds right. Oh yeah, that sounds right. This sounds like it was You should have never married her. Yeah. The whole thing is like this is a husband and wife conversation. The mother has absolutely nothing to do with David Hare looks worried. What what what's to do, Harry? Well, I'm just imagining in her absence, negative Nancy's, you know, not gonna have a lot of kind words to say about her. Yeah. Hey. Why is she not visiting? You know? And and I mean, do have to visit just to be able to defend yourself in the first person?

I don't know. It's just the guy, he's lost sight of where boundaries are supposed to be. And Yeah. It's like, there's supposed to be a fence around the house he's establishing, not the house he came from. And he's lost that. Yeah. That's best for him. He's basically a little boy. So Yeah. Yeah. That's what Ben tried to say, and you guys seemed astonished. Well, just because I wasn't really down with the, hey. Can you get naked with your mama conversation? Because that's just weird to have with anybody. That was the point. The man obviously can't be shaken from his way of living. You're gonna have to say something that rattles him up a bit. Here's the deal. I'm double down on Benson. I I don't think it's that bad. Here we go. Near life from the path.

My boyfriend has been meeting a group of diving friends in New Mexico for more than fifteen years. Nice. We are now a couple, and this was I don't think they've been dating for fifteen years. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. And that's what I read. That was my first thought too. Yeah. Okay. So she's she's, my boyfriend has been meeting a group of diving friends in Mexico for more than fifteen years. Yeah. We are now a couple, and this is my first year meeting everyone. There were two other couples and one female, princesses Connie, sharing the condo.

The other couples had private bathrooms, and we shared the main bathroom with Connie. I found it odd that Connie would leave the bathroom after showering with only a towel wrapped around her. My boyfriend would stay in the room or go out to the deck and read, yet she didn't hesitate to walk out to the patio and converse with him. Is this socially acceptable, or is it me? What can I say to her next year? I thought about buying her a bathrobe and giving it to her. I have I have also considered that my boyfriend and I could get a private room and stay there until we know she's dressed. Really, she needs the private room, and I thought about paying for it, or, or should something just politely be said? What do you do with she thinks the other woman's more attractive than her. You think that's the deal? I think it is. Otherwise, she wouldn't care if it was 85 year old Ethel rolling around in her skivvies. You'd go,

Some old people are just like that. Yeah. Dan's got a good point. I don't think it would be a problem if it was if it was an 85 year old woman. If she was walking out with a I mean, it'd be uncomfortable, but Right. To feel no shame. Feel no shame. This is a hard scene. Can can anyone take it? Well,

whatever I have, John. I love the Bible. And the phrase of the night is? So so

I mean, here's the deal. Like, this isn't on the this isn't on the woman. Right? Like, I feel like it's on the dude. Yeah. He went out to the deck to read, and she followed him out. Yeah. I mean, like, obviously, the relationship between these folks up to this point has seemed to per permit this level whether it should have or not. Sure. But I think out of respect for who it is that you are

dating and otherwise pursuing a life with, that that just that has to stop. Well, and actually, if if you feel like that conversation is not gonna go well with your boyfriend, I hate to say this, but you just might wanna see with the choice that you've made. Right? Like, I feel like my wife should be able to come up to me and say, even let's say I've been going fifteen years, and I know this gal real well on the towel thing. It's just not a deal. I mean, you've probably been within a two piece bathing suit for fifteen years diving. Yeah. You know, but like if she says, look, it just it makes me it makes me uncomfortable and, it just it makes me feel, I I just don't like it. And like, really, any more explanation would, is not necessary. I'd say, okay. I understand. Yeah. I'll do my best to see if we can get this thing curved, and and if my efforts don't get it done, then I'll I'll talk to her about it. Yeah. I I feel like that's not that's not out of

out of expectations from a girlfriend. But then on the other hand, if you think that cover that conversation is gonna go poorly or you're afraid to have it, you might wanna consider your choice in fellas. It is interesting to think though that, like, a lady covered up with a towel is probably more than a than a bikini would. A lot more. If you're dealing with surfing folks. I mean, just relatively speaking to the extent that like you wanna you wanna get kinda get into the the the areas there. I don't know. It didn't seem like it's a significantly different item. Yeah. It's like she's naked under that towel. She's naked under the swimsuit too. Yeah. I'm naked under what I got on. Yeah. Exactly. Hey, man. Surprising. Hey. Hey, man. Mike, we we ever had this. I had one of my kids show up last night and goes, I got three pairs of underpants on. I said, classic. Why are you doing that? I don't know. Just wanna see what it's about. I said, okay. Kids slept in three pairs of undies.

I love that. And then Amanda goes my wife goes, hey. We can't keep doing that. I don't have to wash all those undies. I said, only the bottom is dirty. I said, she got two pairs of fresh undies ready to go. It's gonna be fine. Anyway, just something to think about. I I like I like what she's done. Feel like that's solid ticket. That's a

secular's advice is before doing anything, stop and analyze why you are so bothered by what Connie is doing. You think she is coming on to your boyfriend? Remember, these are all diving friends who have gotten together for a very long time before you were in the picture. If he was interested in her, which I doubt, he wouldn't be with you. I do not think paying for another room for Connie would be appropriate. I do think you should get to know her better. And if you still feel threatened, which you may not, talk to her talk to your boyfriend about your feelings. Actually, that that that's the right advice too. I agree with that. The more you know Connie, Connie may stop doing that simply out of respect for you as she starts to know you better and and think through your eyes a little bit. Maybe she just she just stops doing that. Oh. You wanna do one more? Yeah. Let's do one. Man, this one's off the chain. Okay. Dear life from the path. I'm a teenager, and I want to grow up fast. My boyfriend, Jared, and I are very serious, and we want to have a baby. I know that sounds crazy, but we talk about it all the time, and we're ready for it. Well, I bet Jared's ready for it. As much as I want all this, I'm afraid I won't be able to provide for the baby. A solid thing to worry about. I've been distant from Jared because I don't know how to tell him I'm not totally sure. He'll be disappointed after all we've discussed.

I need to know what to do and say. I need answers. That's it. Break a grown up world. Break up with Jared.

Walk away from this guy. If he's a teenager and he's willing to to say to himself, yeah. Yeah. I'm ready to have a kid. The guy has bad judgment. Well, it's okay. Now here's the deal. She's already there. She was there too. Right? Yeah. Okay. So so Again, bad judgment. Bad judgment on both parts. Understanding. Right? But but with what she's asking, though, my guess is that your advice, is going to fall on deaf ears. So my question is is is not that it's not the right advice, but do you feel like there's a way that you could there's a a different way to talk about that that helps her understand where's that coming from? Your question is how do you speak to two fools? That's basically my question. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess I wanna know, are they already sexually active and they're just gonna stop using contraceptives, or are they talking about Man, Dan brought the reel in the room. Oh, hello. Here's a little reality for you. You using contraceptives? Are you just gonna lose a hat or what? I

don't understand what the matter wanted to adopt together. What do mean? Yeah. Wait a minute. When does sex become involved in this situation? Ew. They're teenagers. Come on. Kids don't do that. You're like a guidance counselor, Dan. I swear. Like, these guys are talking about, like, getting getting having a baby and blah blah blah. Dan's like, are you having sexual intercourse? Have you been intimate with each other? Dan Dan's that weird hospital survey. Have you had sexual intercourse within the last six months? If so, and then it's like, oh, man. That's creepy. Alright. Wait. Wait. Wait. There's gotta be a reason that matters. Go ahead, Dan. What does that matter? I I think it's just part of the conversation. I mean, I just wanna know I'm just interested.

Charlie Charlie Gospelvima having sex. Filling out the chart. I just these are just things I need to know. I mean, at what level of poor judgment are they at? Well, okay. How do you help them? Maybe Dan maybe Dan makes a solid point. Right? Like, let's say that they are. Would that give you enough, enough leverage to say, look, I'm not real sure that you have a relationship with Jesus here or have a foundation of, of kingdom living. So, like, are are you wanna fight the peripherals? Like, you want you wanna swing at the clouds here, or you wanna or you wanna go for where the heart of the matter is? Why these like, why do you wanna grow up so fast anyway?

You know, what like, what's what's going on in your life? We need to we need to talk and see what's happening. Maybe that's what I'm getting at, boob. It's like, it's it's not that it's I think that's the right output, but the question is is like, why? Like, help her understand, understand that because I think her perspective may not be meeting up with with the background of which where you're coming from. Yeah. I'm not saying kids ain't a blessing, but I don't think you understand the full package of blessings

when people say blessing. It's like at the end of the night after they finally got to bed and you go, I'm blessed. But at like 10:30 to that morning, you're like, I don't know. I mean, far don't feel as blessed as I did last night. The truth is, it's like, if having a child when you know very well that you are not in a position to take care of it isn't growing up. Right? It's just being a child with a child. Right. And so like you you the right thing is is like if if if you wanna grow up, let me help you understand what that looks like. Here's what growing up looks like, and I can encourage you in that. Because, I mean, if they wanna grow up, they're 16, and they wanna take on responsibility and get work and move on education

Good. Incredible. Thumbs up. I love That that's what growing up looks like. Having a child does not make you an adult, and there's probably there's tons of there's tons of examples you could give either worldly or or probably closer to them of where they can they would be able to see that. And so, like, that's really where the misconception is. Is that, like, they found something they desired, and look at the child as the way to get there, and the the there's it's just it's mistaken. Yeah. It's it's foolishness. Yes. Circumstances are not what make you an adult. It's the actions and the heart you have. Right. And so the truth is actually you know what I probably would say is, like, this realization that you're having right now to kinda put the the skids on this thing, that's adult thinking. Like, that's demonstrating that you're looking to be an adult because you're you're weighing and saying, we don't have the ability to take care of this child. It would be irresponsible to bring them into the world regardless of what we've talked about or our feelings on the matter. That is adult level thinking. Congratulations.

You need to continue that process, and you can't recede go back into acting in in childish ways simply to accommodate another child who's not thinking in that same way. Mhmm. So I think I think maybe it's trying to say similar to what you're saying. I just like, connect with what it is that they're actually say that they're trying to do, recognize some fallibility, and maybe maybe I don't know. I think you can encourage her because I think it is it is an adult thing that she's thinking through. Then then my base level is I'm gonna introduce her to Christ. That's the basic situation. Here's a guy I trust. Here's the way he says to roll. Exactly. So let let me explain to you This is a hard saying. Yeah. This is a hard saying. Yeah.

Who can bear? Only guidance counselors can bear it. Yeah. So so breaking it down to okay. So let's let's talk a little bit about motives behind this, and let's talk your heart and see where that's at. And he here's Jesus, and here's his perspective on on adulthood and and on what it's like to be a parent and what what the responsibilities are and and where you should be at, what your your responsibilities are. K. Secular says, you and Jared may be intent on growing up fast, but believe me, having a child at your age is a guaranteed way to slow you down. Once a baby is here, the baby's needs will supersede yours until he or she is no longer a minor. You are wise to worry about how you will provide for any baby you bring into this world, and Jared should be doing the same thing. If you make it out of high school, many pregnant girls don't, the kind of jobs you'll be prepared for won't pay much. If Jared suddenly discovers he isn't up to the responsibilities of fatherhood, and believe me, it has happened many times, you have greater problems than telling your boyfriend you don't think you're ready to be a mother until you have at least a high school diploma.

Here's the deal. I I I think, while I agree with, most of what she said, she's she's fighting the clouds. I I mean, it it it just it is what it is. I like I feel the same way with, a lot of people I know that have some serious serious problems that are that are destroying their life. Right? But, like, I just I feel like piecemealing some of that stuff is is is not is not the way to go. Like, you go for the heart of the matter, and you go for for the core of what what brings your decisions to what they are now. Otherwise, they'll just find a new brand of vodka to use

Yeah. To to drown themselves in. It's just the way that it works. And so Yep. One thing, they'll grab another. So you've been listening to live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us here. Again, you can catch us during the week at livefromthepath.org. And, hey, you can follow us on Twitter and catch us on Facebook. I'd recommend the Twitter over the Facebook, to be honest. It allows us to actually get get in touch with you in a in a much more direct and distinct manner. So we appreciate that. Thanks for hanging out with the podcast. Hey. Share with your friends. Let people know that life fun passes out there talking about to Charlie Charlie.

Feel like that goes viral, things of this nature. Alright. I love you guys. Hey, be faithful to memes. God will most certainly I don't know you very well. I won't say that I love you, but I'm glad to have have that Ben likes you. I love some of you. How's that? Yeah. What's wrong with saying I love all of them? That's probably not accurate. Nope. In fact, we have a a couple very suspicious Twitter followers. Alright. You with us a lot. Have a good week. Thanks for listening live in the past.