Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the path.

And you're listening to Live From The Path. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper. It's good to be with you tonight. Here's here's what I think we have going on the show tonight. Mike's got some pope style Mike has some pope style advice, but it has to do with what was it? It has to do with some sort of interaction with Jacob? Yeah. So I've I've been I've been rocking through the, I've been rocking through the book of Genesis here, and like I it it kinda put in perspective for me some of the things that we fight over theologically.

Right? Things that we are sure is the deal, and it turns and and no one really knows if it's the deal or not, but we are absolutely sure. And if you don't think it's the deal, then that's it. You're out. And so I have a little Pope style advice concerning maybe the way that we look at even what we what we think are our closed handed issues. Okay. Alright. So we'll get that up on a Pope style advice. Also, I saw there was an article in Time Magazine about basically people trying to eliminate

the concept of hell. People who say, well, I follow Jesus. I just can't get on board with this concept to hell. And they gave five five reasons or justifications for this. And I thought maybe we'll walk through those and we'll see what what they're advocating for and if there's any part of it that we can agree form agree with and or if they're just taking wrong conclusions for things we otherwise might otherwise agree with. So we'll walk through that article. Also, and I'll tell you this off the bat. What I was reading today,

there was a an article on Christian Post that I could I can't even tell you what it's about. But there was a guy oh, I know it was. It had to do with millennials. They're like, ten ten qualities of millennials. And I'm like, okay. Fine. Great. But there was this guy in the in the comments, and his basic comment was, I I here's my prophecy about millennials, but don't stone me if I'm wrong. And

and I guess the first thing I thought was is like, what are you actually asking me to do? Or like you proposing that you're gonna be a false prophet, and then I just shouldn't react to that. Like, it's it was it's such a weird it's such a weird thing to say when he could have just said, here's what I act here's what I think about millennials. Right? But he chose to say, here's my prophecy about millennials. Don't stone me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Here's the deal. Like, you know why? I I mean, there's there's a there's a multitude of reasons that people listen to Jesus. But, like, one of the main one is is that he speaks with authority.

He shows up and he says, this is the deal. And then a guy shows up, some kind of weak livered puffball comes in like side saddle and goes, well, I I don't know. This could be it. I kinda get this this this vibe, but, like, you can believe me or not believe me. Either way, doesn't really matter. Well, people have a really hard time following that guy because he doesn't have any faith in what he's saying. So why would anybody have faith in what you don't enough to follow him anywhere? Right. If I have to open up a sentence with, here's what I think. Don't stone me if I'm wrong. It should be followed by, and I've chosen to shut my face Yeah. To not continue talking, because I don't know for sure, and I I shouldn't be a false prophet about things. I I feel like most of the Internet would be devoid if you did that. So so that's the truth. So can we just not say,

not act like what you're gonna say is potentially a word from God and just say, here's what I think? Isn't that the safest place? Here, I think something. It may or may not be correct as opposed to I'm gonna prophecy about this. Yeah. Welcome to the Internet. That's why that's what blogs are for, man. Mhmm. Spout it out. Here's what here's what I think. It is of, either great consequence or little consequence. It doesn't matter because I prefaced it with, here's what I think. Tricky. Anyway, I I I suppose I don't know where this level of surprise is coming from from my interaction in the blog comments.

But but that's an interesting dichotomy. I mean, here's a guy who's by using the word prophecy, he's claiming to speak from the authority of God instead of from his own authority. Yeah. Adding, yeah, adding credibility to his to his potentially. Yeah. And and then concludes, you know, concludes it up with, but if I'm wrong, it's like, no. No. No. It doesn't you you can't have either or. This is. Yeah. That was those you remember we were talking about those guys who had predicted the end of the world a couple, I don't know, a couple months ago or so. And that was basically their ex explanation after it didn't happen. So we really feel strongly that this is it, but without ever saying firm because we just weren't quite sure. And I thought, like, where's the keep your mouth shut? Like, if you're really being faithful to God, that that means you just shut up now. Like, you don't open your mouth. You don't start telling people things that you don't know to be true, and that you didn't get from God. Either you'd be certain or you'd be quiet. I feel like those are the only two options. Well, maybe in this arena. Right? Like, this particular arena, that is definitely true. The rest of your life, I don't know. There's no there's really no problem with you. The problem is stepping into the prophet category. That's where you have to be careful. Speaking on God's behalf or or communicate communicating to god's people god's message. And so, like, as soon as you step in that ring, you're either wrong or right. That's it. You either a prophet or you're not. And and like any other part of your life where you just pipe up in a business meeting and be like, well, here's what I think is gonna happen if we go this route or here's how I feel like this is gonna go down. That's completely okay. Like, there's nothing wrong with putting your 2¢ worth in but until you step in the ring where you're where you're saying, look, I'm speaking on God's behalf. Now, can you speak about the end of the world or put out a prediction without being called a false prophet? If you didn't say, look, we got this from God. You're just like, man, I put a couple numbers together, and here's the deal. Here's what I think is gonna happen. I mean, are you are you snaking through on a technicality, or are you ignoring the part where where Jesus said, nobody knows. You're you're a fool. I think I think a lot of, attempts at actually, Herak was was talking about this just before,

like, an hour before the show, looking at the four, prime ways in which people, look at the end times or read Revelation. And and I think it is wrong to otherwise assume that people are are attempt or trying to mislead or read those unfaithfully. They're reading them faithfully just from the lens that they're coming from. Right? And so, Mike, I think that falls into that category, which is someone who's attempting to discern scripture appropriately. They're coming from a a particular view, a particular way of reading scripture and understanding of who God is and how he works, and and then come up with something that is different than some other person. It's just that's what they think. But that is different than saying,

I have a prophet sent to you by God. Here's what's gonna happen. Like, that's completely different position. Yeah. I think yeah. I I think that's where the rubber meets the road. Right? Like, soon as you say, this came from god instead of I equated this. I put these things together. Here's what I think they mean. That's not a prophecy. That's just I'm trying to explain what's going on here. This all seems like a jumble to me. But then as soon as you say, look, I got this from God or I have this on. People like to use the word good authority. Here's where the end of the end of times is going down. Then you've thrown yourself in the prophet ring, and now you're just wrong. Heck, that's what Paul even does that. Right? He goes he's got a bunch of stuff that he's teaching, and he says, well, here's something I think. Yeah. This is a teaching from me, not from the Lord at one point. Yeah. I mean, you you can call me wise or otherwise and do what you want with this thing. Everything else, you know, I'm I'm I'm teaching what Jesus otherwise would have taught.

But, yeah, yeah, he makes that level of distinction. I feel like we can too. I kinda feel like to to walk the road of a prophet, the sacrifice that you've gotta make is your opinion and your contribution. It's like all those other times that you'd like to chime into a discussion. You're if you're a prophet, you're speaking on behalf of the Lord. And if he hasn't hasn't given you any kind of insight on it, then you keep your mouth shut. Even though you may have some kind of other insight from yourself and and say, hey. Here's what I think is going on. It you know, your days of here's what I think really should be over if you're stepping into the, I'm gonna speak on behalf of the Lord because, you know, your opinion, your authority no longer matters. It's it every other meaningful contribution that you're making needs to be done through the lens of this is the lord endorsing it. Otherwise and just,

you know, let it let it ride the way that it does. Either god's got your back and what you're saying is true or else it's not, and you you end up being a false prophet making no other meaningful contribution to society. You you can't really, you know, say, hey. Here here's what the Lord says. And then on Monday, come around and say, alright. Now here's what I think also should be done as well. As a side note, that Yeah. That they really shouldn't they shouldn't be together. There's no toe in the water profit. Right. No. Your opinion dies. Yeah. Alright. Alright. Well, anyway, so don't be a profit in the comments on the online. Yeah. That's the deal. That's gotten rid of half the Internet, Ben. So here we go. There's a there was an article in Time Magazine. It was five reasons Christians are rejecting the notion of hell.

It says more and more Christians are beginning to reject the traditional view of hell, which states the unjust will experience eternal conscious torment. Perhaps you've seen this change in the Christian landscape and grown confused as to why so many of us are experiencing shifting beliefs. While my this is written from a guy. Says while my letting go of hell series goes further in-depth on many issues surrounding hell, here are five key reasons to help you understand why we are rejecting the notion of eternal conscious torment. Yeah. Here we go. Reason number one. Reason number one. Something in our spirit tells us that torturing people is morally wrong.

During the historically recent debates over whether or not it's okay to torture people, it has only been the most sick and twisted minds among us who have defended torture as being anything less than morally reprehensible. In fact, we know that torturing is such an egregious offense to morality that we even have laws against doing it to animals. The assertion that God himself will not only torture people but take great pleasure in it is something that many of us in Christianity are finding utterly offensive. Is there is there a scripture to back up that the Lord takes great pleasure in it?

Not that I'm aware of, and it doesn't exactly attribute that God is the one doing the torturing either. It it could very easily just be the result of human beings doing what they do to each other in the absence of God's influence. So it you know, to attribute that quality to God instead of saying, okay. God's apparently set up a place where human beings can go do what human beings do to each other apart from God. Yeah. It's not necessarily because of him.

Yeah. I guess that's never the picture I that I got that that, God takes great pleasure. I mean, if he did, what what was Jesus for? You know what I'm saying? Like, if that was God's character or he took great pleasure in the separation of his people from him, he did not have to send the rescue. He could've just left it be. Right. I enjoy this. Yeah. This is great. It would be for everyone, and he could enjoy that. In fact, when you looked at just prior to the flood story where he's like, this grieves me. You know what saying? That kind of belays the fact that he does not like that. When people when people turn to human based nature and and and do nothing but sin continually

and are apart from him, he goes, well, I can't have this. Enough that I that I spent time and effort and love and built this creation, I'm willing to wipe it clean and try this again and and and start this over to to get rid of this. This pains me to see so much. I don't know. Something in our spirit tells us that torturing people is morally wrong. I mean, I think I get what they're pointing at, but, like, something in your spirit also tells you that it it might be the good jollies to make decisions based upon the mannerings of your man, Willie. So, like, I the whether you feel one way or another. Everyone in the studio nodded. Yeah. Yeah. That happens sometimes. I I appreciate the colorful way you you painted that picture. Yeah. Man will it, sir. We've

all been there. Whether you feel a certain way or not doesn't seem like a justifiable reason to reject something that Christ otherwise teaches. I've I've could say probably across the board, if there's anyone that I mistrust mistrust most of my life, it's me and whatever idea I had. You know I'm saying? Like, come with foolish things, things that will destroy me. And frankly, I I I was, reading an article today, and he put it really well. It's like, after a while, your your feelings on the matter could be completely a 100% off because you chose to believe a lie. And and that has happened time and time again with people that have gotten separated from God or from community around them is they've believed a lie and then started making real decisions based off of that, off that lie, and now have ended with real consequences

only because they believed in a lie. And so, like, how you feel about something is not necessarily, the best way to attack any problem. Yeah. Well, if we're talking about hell, which is a place where, you know, Satan would be, and maybe Satan might be doing some tormenting, so to speak, maybe. I mean, are you why why would anything moral be going on there anyway? I mean, you know, like, oh, this doesn't sound like a good moral place. It's like, well, no. That's where Satan, like, lives. Right? Well, I mean, you you have to I I suppose, like, from a broader of God. From a broader perspective, though, like, the time at the time of Christ return,

if if hell is is an eternal physical place of which there is an existence and Satan has been dispatched, Jesus is indeed the king of hell. Right? So, like, there is a point of which that has to shit. Like, it's still God's responsibility. Right? So, like, what is that? How would you how are we to understand it from that perspective? Somehow hell's gotta fit within God's sovereignty. Sure. Even even if, Satan's the one who's running amok, he still ultimately is accountable to God. So but in either case, like, would it it would it be can we understand the expectation that says if you've if you've chosen a life apart from God,

the very reality of all things absence of of who God is and his characteristics produces poor things one way or the other. Like, they've put some tangible things on hell that I'm not sure the bible goes actually explains. Like, he uses the the weeping and gnashing of teeth certainly. But, you know, I I think, they're attempting to equate a earthly understanding of torture to something that I'm just not sure that that scripture puts as much teeth on to to be able to equate those same things. I don't know. I I I can't go any farther than that because it it simply isn't as distinct, more distinct than that. But, I think you're falsely equating a couple different things there. Number two. Hey, hold. Can I ask you a question? Is this article coming from a from a Christian point of view? Yes. Yeah. He said he this man said he is a Christian who just happens to reject the notion of hell. And and and the phrase my spirit there's something within my spirit tells me this ain't right? In our spirit. Yeah. Collectively, we know that torture is wrong,

as a people. I think the implication is that God has put that in us. So how could then how could could God then be responsible for something that we otherwise innately abhor? Okay. I'm with you so far. Yeah. But the same argument would basically say there is no evil. You know, we we all know that God is good and that he's sovereign, and he wouldn't allow evil to exist. Therefore, evil doesn't exist. Right. More or less what he's getting at. And I don't think you could be a reasonable breathing person and try to make such an argument. Yeah. And you'd be you'd be amazed on how fast my morality could change when there's little no consequence because of it. You know I'm saying? Obviously, the things that I think are wrong like, I I have to base my faith on the truth of of god's word because I mean, it is. My my morality is elastic. I will change it to whatever situation I need it to be to make me right at that moment. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I don't know. I don't know about the collective spirit animal that he's promoting, but I feel like it's untrustworthy.

Continue on. Alright. No. Reason number two. That was just number one. Number two, the concept of eternal conscious torment runs contrary to the whole testimony in scripture. Part of the reason why a growing number of us are rejecting the traditional view of hell is that we've actually reread the scriptures without our prefabricated evangelical filter. Here's what what? Pref evangelical filter, the good news filter?

Like, are they do they do they mean like a Jimmy Swagger filter? Like, is that what they're trying to say? I think they mean the, Christian culture. Okay. Because, I mean, evangelical on its on its right right footing is is simply a good news filter. And if they're saying, well, we we've decided to ignore that and read it the different way. Anyway, and find scripture describes something different than a traditional hell. Yes. There are some verses that seem italicized to hint or describe eternal torture, but like many issues, the Bible is inconsistent on the matter. However, when we look at the entire testimony of scripture, we most often see the disposition of those who refuse to enter into God's love described as a second death. Traditional hell isn't death at all. I wouldn't say that's the majority. Traditional hell isn't death at all. Traditional hell is instead an eternal life of torture. This simply isn't what the Bible describes when taking into account the entire testimony. Instead, we find that those who ultimately reject God, the one who sustains life, to be granted their wish. Their names are blotted out of the book of life, and it is as if they never existed. So they're the annihilationist perspective,

basically. Yeah. So how Ben, you wanna unpack that that term, annihilationism? Yes. Basically, the the last thing that he that he described, which is at Christ's return, those who are with him and his kingdom will remain so and live forever. Those who are not are simply annihilated. Their existence is is no longer a thing. They are not a conscious being anywhere separate from God. They just are not anymore, are not a a a being an entity. There's no there's no life or or any sustenance there. So instead of going to fire and torture, you just cease to exist? Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. They if they have this wrong, how so?

I mean, I don't I I I guess I don't know. I I don't know that I came armed to the teeth with hell versus there's a couple of things that there's a couple of things that I I don't know why it's sticking to my head that, I feel like you don't need a chasm if that's the case. Right? Like, you don't need two fixed points in a space between, you know, you you you just need a temporary holding area. You know what I'm saying? Like, I I I guess maybe I don't I don't know. What like, why would you

don't don't can't decide whether I'm fighting against annihilationism or exactly what he's saying. What's the difference between it? What do you say? Annihilationism? Yeah. And the point he's trying to make, or is that just the point? He's making this that point. That point. Yeah. Yeah. Your rejection of God basically means that you you go to the second death, which is ceasing to exist. I don't know how he says that all of scripture is pointing to that. And that's pretty that that's like one of my arguments. Oh, you know, it just is. It's just what it is. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's like, can

you give me a word? Give me one verse. Yep. He didn't even attempt to like, I've seen people try to argue against a physical, a conscience, conscious hell, and they've done a substantially better job even with partial references here. Because like we say, when we look at the entire testimony of scripture, we most often see the disposition of those who refuse to enter into god's love described as a second death. That is simply not right. Even from a direct count,

that's not right. Yeah. I mean, it does. Scripture does do that. Also not a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in death. It's just death, isn't it? Mhmm. Yeah. So you have to I mean, there's things where I I think I could see I I I'm not really hip on these arguments, annihilation is whatnot. But, like, I could see it in the void, like, in the opposite of what Jesus said. So if if if Christ says,

you know, John three sixteen, whoever so loved the world, blah blah blah, whoever has everlasting life. The opposite of that is not everlasting life, right, which could be death. Do they use that as a proof text? Because that's excellent. I would totally use that. I've developed the right thought. Jesus says, follow me. If you follow my kingdom, you you you buy into this thing, you will have everlasting life, which means if you don't, you don't. And so I could totally buy that as proof text, by the way. But on the opposite side of that, why would why would Christ even bring it up with weeping and gnashing of teeth if that was not really the deal? Right. If you could that and I think that will be it's one of the things that I'd like to see answered, I suppose, from one of these folks is

Jesus seems to treat it as a physical reality or or less as at least a conscious reality that there is an eternal separation from God, not just a lack of existence. And so the question is is how are you reading that differently? Like, where it is that you think that you that you don't have to read it in the way that otherwise Jesus seems to speak about it. Number three, the final judge of each individual is Jesus, and torturing people seems contradictory

to his character. I feel like you didn't read Revelation. We believe in a coming judgment and believe each one of us will have to stand before the judgment seat. However, we often forget that this judge will be Jesus. The amen, the the the true, the guy with the the tattoo on his leg and the sword and all that stuff. Most of us still affirm those who refuse to be reconciled to God's love through Christ will ultimately be eternally lost because we believe love must always be chosen. It cannot be forced. However, the idea that the end result of rejecting God's love will be a slow roasting eternal torture session, which where is what is this? Is this for is this a movie? Is this where he's getting this from? Yeah. Is this, like, on the Cinemax? Yeah. You're what you're doing is you're rejecting

movie hell. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're rejecting a painting hell and a movie hell. I don't know that they're rejecting the biblical version of hell. And I'm not saying that the biblical version hell is not worse to the extent that you're you're separated from God completely, but I think that is act that is the key component of hell. Is it not Jesus trying to get his comeuppance by physical torture? It's a simple fact that you are separated from Christ forever, and you are well aware of it. And, like, there is there is a a a that state, that you are in forever

in that way. Like, think of the the reaction of of Lazarus as he's died, and he recognizes that he cannot, like, he cannot, thirst can't be quenched and that he will never get out of there and has that desperate desire to tell someone else, his family so that they will know differently. I think that is a picture of what you can anticipate here. But, like, I I just it's it's I don't know. I I'm just I'm not sure what it is that you where the concept of hell that you're coming from, that does that doesn't seem to be a biblical description either. So if you take just what the Bible describes, where's where's that concept coming from that you're arguing against? It's a bit of a straw a straw man, I guess.

Yeah. I I got okay. Okay. Here. We'll finish it. However, the idea that the end result of rejecting God's love will be a slow roasting eternal torture session with Jesus at the controls is almost asinine. This is not the Jesus we find in the New Testament. The Jesus we find in the New Testament is loving and just, but not dementedly cruel. In fact, in the New Testament, we see a Jesus who notices suffering all around him and repeatedly states, I have compassion for them. That compassion consistently moves Jesus to action, often breaking the taboos of his day to alleviate their suffering. The Jesus of scripture is hardly the type of person who'd enjoy

torturing people. Yeah. Okay. Dan Dan, what are your thoughts here? I have to admit I kinda drifted there. I have no idea what you said. He said he says that torturing people seems contradictory to Jesus' character.

He's not dementedly cruel. He goes he, breaks the taboos the day to alleviate people suffering. The Jesus of scripture is hardly the type of person who'd enjoy torturing people. That goes back to he's on a on a wrong footing in the first place. Jesus isn't torturing anyone. I I mean, he's

you have a clear choice. Follow Jesus or not. End result, heaven or hell. Jesus isn't down there holding a whip.

You know? So how do so how do we understand the the conscious,

like the weeping and gnashing of teeth aspect? Well, that's not Jesus torturing. I mean, there is a place of mean, scripture is pretty clear. There's torment, and and and it's it's not a pleasant experience. That doesn't mean Jesus is down there, like, you know, pulling cranks and stretching bodies and doing thumb presses. And, I mean, you know, he he I mean, is that is that he's not doing it personally? Is that a is that an appropriate distinction? I mean, to Eric's point, like,

he's that that's what he's sanctioned. Right? Well, sure. I mean, he's he's he has said, you have a choice. Go here or there, but it doesn't mean he's doing it. I mean Does it matter? He's he's allowed it. He's, it's under his authority. That is true. So so if they're making the case that it seems contradictory to his character,

that that's what hurts him so much. He doesn't want people to go there. Yeah. Yeah. For what it sounds like to me, it actually may be right. That type of torture is contradictory to Jesus' character, but it's in line with yours. You know what saying? Yeah. I don't I don't know I don't know what it feels like to to be in existence, without the presence of God in it. And I'm not just talking about a guy that loves Jesus and follows and is part of the kingdom. I'm talking about a guy that is just on this Earth with common grace given to me and the light of God's creation being available.

And I don't know anyone that knows that that knows what that feels like not to have that because no one's experienced that. Yeah. But you'd have to remove even those elements from the equation in order to truly have a an existence apart from God. That's what I'm saying. And and that's something that no one in human history has ever experienced. So so tell me if if that if that fits the definition of torture and weeping and gnashing. When you are separated from the god that created you,

I I mean, I don't know. I I I agree. I I feel like it's kind of a it's a weird argument because there feel like there's not enough to know about it and it wasn't described. I mean, Jesus does treat it as a physical place and so I think you gotta call you know, a king of king. When he says it's a space, it's a space. But, I mean, I I can get to the fact if you wanna take some of the cartoon villainy out of it and call it what it is is being basically, being in existence, without the light of God available to you at all,

I'm telling you, it's gotta be pretty crappy. I think most of the, this author's arguments kinda come down to this is outside of Jesus' character and outside the pattern of what God's doing. And that's true because it's exactly what God is calling us out of. I mean, we're basically pursuing prior to Jesus, we're pursuing this life in our own image, and the end result of that is always the same, this kind of death and torture and trying to destroy everything else around us up to and including ourselves,

because that's just how we end up following life. That's what we're gonna end up doing if we follow life apart from Jesus and apart from his influence. So he's calling us out of that type of existence. So it very much is in line with his character to say, hey. Let's avoid that whole scenario. Let's avoid that path. But, you know, in order to truly love someone, you know, there's gotta be some kind of element of free will involved in it. And if there's any kind of free will involved, then there's gotta be the ability to say, no. I don't want that. I I want to be my own king. I wanna do things my own way. And if that's the case, the natural result of you being your own king is exactly this kind of death and torture.

It's not something that Jesus, you know, is saying, hey. Let me punish you because, you know, you lied to your little sister. This is something that you because you're trying to shape your environment and your existence in your into your image based on the darkness of your own heart, this is just the natural result of it. Right. You basically got what you wanted. Yeah. You want you wanted a kingdom that reflects ultimately what you value, and where the nature of your life takes you, and then that's that's what you got. Yeah.

Alright. Number four, Jesus would become a hypocrite, demanding that we non violently love our enemies while he does the complete opposite. Remember, Jesus is the ultimate judge of humanity, so anyone who ended up being tortured in hell would only go there by the decision of Jesus himself. This is the same Jesus who pointed out in the Bible of his day the permissiveness of using a tit for tat system of justice, an eye for an eye, in dealing with enemies as being wrong. Instead of affirming we should follow this part of scripture, Jesus taught his disciples to no longer obey this part of their Bible, instructing that they should become nonviolent enemy lovers instead, Matthew five thirty eight. In fact, Jesus goes as far as telling them that loving enemies is a requirement of becoming a child of God. If Jesus commands that we love our enemies, refuse to use violence, and that we actually do good to those who hate us yet, eternally tortures his own enemies, he's guilty of hypocrisy. I don't believe this is the case. I believe Jesus commands we love our enemies because he loves his enemies, and torture is never loving. How do you describe the flood?

Jesus didn't really describe hell as being inherently punitive. He just said, hey. This is the place. This is what ends up happening. And and I think that's kinda where we're diverging with the author on this. He's describing a a hell that is god just saying, hey. As punishment for this, here's where you go instead of just, hey.

You chose something other than my kingdom, and so, you wanna be under my sovereignty? Welcome to heaven. If you don't wanna be under my sovereignty, there's the exit.

Go over there. It really is a it's it's it does boil down to a very simple choice. It'd be like me walking up to my kids and saying, look, you got ten minutes. Why don't you go clean your room up? If not, and the movie comes on, and you don't have it done yet, you're gonna have to do it during the movie and miss the movie. Mhmm. And it turns out they skip it, and then they wait. And I say, you're gonna have to go upstairs and and get get your room cleaned up. The movie's on, but you didn't do it when when it was time. Mhmm. And they say, but that's unfair. And I will say, but the choice was yours. It was your choice. It's I'm not being punitive. Right. I just laid out the deal. Right? And that is essentially what Christ has done. He's laid out the deal. Here's the deal. This is my kingdom. This is what we do. There's joy and love here, and this is the place to be. If you don't want that, that's the deal. Yeah. It's not punitive. In addition to that, because of his love and his grace, he has extended to us a way of rescuing us from that choice. Yeah. He he's given us the ability to actually turn around from that path at some point, hopefully, coming to our senses and realizing, hey. Wait a minute. This, kingdom of my own reflection is not working out so well for me. I'd really like to try it your way, God. How can I do that? He's actually extended an offer for us to, hey. Let me turn things around for you. And and that's what Jesus says. That's what our good news is is that God offers us an alternative to hell.

Yeah. Tricky. I I guess and that that's, the question I asked directly after was, don't understand how how how explains things like the flood when that seems very much the nature of what God has done. Is he is he he's basically looked out and says, I'm going to physically remove people from the world,

in this manner. Mhmm. And if that is not like, how was that different? How was how can you look at that at God's actions there differently, and say that that is not of the same character unless you're starting trying to split Jesus and God up from a nature of their character. So I I don't it just seems like a shallow discussion to the extent that, like, he's not hypocrite that his full character would otherwise seem that that is within his purvey to do as he wishes. Number five, we simply can't get past the idea that we are more gracious and merciful than Jesus himself. So for the most part, answers two through five are all the same Yeah. Is that we we are we are acting differently than Jesus would. Here's the description. This is the key area I cannot reconcile

with eternal torment, full colon. I have been wronged by a lot of people in my life, but I have absolutely zero desire to torture anyone. I could never make the call to sentence one to torture or to pull the switch to commence torture because seeing people suffer is something that disrupts my spirit. I want no part in the causation of suffering, but instead want to be an agent who helps to relieve suffering. Furthermore, the longer I follow Jesus, the more and more I desire that people be shown mercy. If I were to sit on the judgment seat, something I never will

what the heck? Is somebody touching the microphone? Just Guestman. Hey. Let's Alright. It was me. Let's cease the amateur, man. We just like to play with it, Ben. Furthermore,

the longer I follow Jesus, the more I desire that people be shown mercy. If I were to sit on the judgment seat, something I never will, there's just no possible way I could ever sentence people to eternal torture, especially for things like being born into an Amazonian tribe who never heard the message of Jesus. If I were judge, I would always lean on the option of radical mercy. The question then becomes, am I a hopelessly flawed and sinful human being more merciful and compassionate than Jesus? There's no possible way that is true, which tells me there might be more mercy than I can even fathom dished out at the final judgment. As more and more Christians return home to a radical faith centered squarely on Jesus, we will continue to see a growing number of bible believing soundly orthodox Christians reject the evangelical concept of eternal conscious torment. This should be viewed as a beautiful thing, not a travesty, as we'd rediscover that God actually is altogether wonderful, altogether lovely, and altogether like Jesus.

Yeah. Here's the deal. What that last part may be true, he's not done it here. He has not produced a a very well bible a a a well constructed bible centered argument. He's basically put together about seven or eight Hollywood films and then claimed that the the Jesus who actually makes distinction

between right and wrong is is impossible to buy. That's what he's done. Yeah. He's created god in his own image. I don't feel those ways so god can't. Yes. Yeah, boy. I how how foolish do you have to be to say some of the stuff that's coming out of his mouth? Like, because I don't understand that god would act this way. He can't act this way. Yeah. Like, for heaven. See, like That sounds like our our atheist friend who had, what was it, 50 reasons or whatever it is. Yeah. I can't remember what it I forgot about that guy. Yeah. That was the best that was the best bit we ever done. I don't like it. Therefore, well, god can't do that.

I I I feel like, you know, being in a working in a school, I'll occasionally see teachers who come in for maybe their first year or so, and, you know, they they want to do well with with the kids. And the ones who do well start off just very firm

and very I mean, one of them actually had the phrase, no smile till December. And and it's not that they're trying to be unkind, but they just need to establish a set of order for for the kids. On the other hand, the the teachers that come in and wanna just do all buddy buddy, within a month, the kids are just running over them to the point that they have to scream and yell and lose their top in order to get anything done,

out of the class. And just because they they didn't have any kind of sense of order whatsoever underlying the relationship, you know, six weeks into it, they're they're completely stressed. The students don't even wanna be there either. It's just an awful environment because they they weren't able to,

to just lay down the groundwork and say, hey. Here's what's going on. And and the same thing is true with love requires a sense of order. It requires, a response to people harming each other.

Now what's great about God is that he can respond to that and actually transform it. He can take evil and turn it into good. So, you know, the but the fact that a human being can come along and say, oh, yeah. I'm a lot nicer, than, you know, what God's doing. Well, you know what? That first week and the second week,

a teacher who has no idea what they're doing seems nicer than the one who says, hey. Here's how things go. But ultimately, long term for the rest for the entire class, the one who, has a firm standard of here's what is expected of my class,

they're the ones that the students enjoy being there. They understand the value of themself and of the students who are there, and they they maintain that standard. They maintain real respect for each other. They don't just let everything slide. Well, it's actually it's it's impossible to have mercy on a punishment that would never have come to fruition. Mhmm. You know I'm saying? There's nothing to be merciful with. Right. If if it was never gonna happen in the first place. And and and and, you know, the Bible has laid that out. The the the wages of sin is death. Right? Mhmm. That's the it's not punitive. It's a fact. You're acting outside of the kingdom of God and outside of God's character. You cannot continue to exist. Now, God is merciful in the fact that he sent Christ to give you that opportunity to redeem that. And he will be and and on top of the fact, he will bear the weight of that. Mhmm. Like, will do the redeeming. You just have to accept the fact that you're being redeemed. Mhmm. And that's all that he's asking. It is not punitive to look at a man that sees that proposition and goes, no, thank you. And watches him walk through another door and watches God weep at the sight of it that his son has decided to leave and not be part of his kingdom. That's what they act like like Christ is a stoic character in this punitive, you know, dungeon of hell.

And and not knowing that that that like god's heart brought the world, god's heart brought the redemption, and god's heart ultimately has to bring the judgment. Mhmm. And and and all of that is encircled in in god's heart and they act like he's a he's a stoic prison guard just whooping dudes as they come in. But, like, without the without the the the the punishment set up, the redemption means nothing, and the mercy means nothing. And so, like, when you characterize Jesus as this guy that tortures folks or or wants to not give people mercy, He's implicitly done that already, the fact that you're still breathing. The punishment for sin was when you when you sinned and you should have died already. And so the mercy is available, and he's shown it. It's it's the the folks that are ending up in hell are the people that refuse to to accept it. That's all. The mercy is available. They're choosing not to accept it. And so it is not God that is, or Christ that is that is causing this torture. It is them that has made the choice not to accept the mercy that was already offered. And so these are not Christ the the and he's left that decision in your court because if you don't accept it on your own and it's forced on you, then it's not genuine. So you have to choose it. And so, like, I think that just this whole concept, like the the lens that he's looking at it, it's it's all from a I don't know. It seems like a very medieval,

I don't know, punitive punishment style of of the way that Christ works. And, like, that's not how I read my New Testament. Right. It's like Jesus is Faust or, like, the the dealing with with with this caricature of a of a Satan or of a concept of hell. Here's the thing. It's like, I I am probably in agreement that our traditional description

and understanding of hell is very much influenced by Dante's inferno Yeah. And not as much by scripture. That's probably true. Like, the our concept of of what what this looks like or, the realities behind it. And frankly, that's what he's arguing against. But but the truth is is that, like, that's not a biblical argument either. So, like, if you wanna argue with Dante about it, go ahead and do that. Don't But act like that's the biblical position. Frankly, the biblical position on hell is about as descriptive as it is of heaven.

It's just it simply isn't very clear. The truth is is as I as I know, trust, and follow Christ, I have to just, understand that he is just and good, and whatever it is that he's decided on how to handle things has to be correct. And so I I I can't reasonably sit back and say, hey. I wonder if God will be just in this area. Of course, he will be just in this area. He's God. That's what he will do. And so if if there's something that is outside of my comprehension, if I can look at hell and say, look, I I I don't the Bible simply doesn't describe it in the way that this guy's talking about, but it also doesn't describe it in, I think, the traditional way that he's buck buffing up against. Well, maybe that's all true. However, it is, it's right and good. It is it is correct. It is just. It is merciful. It is all the things that are the character nature of God. That's the nature of it. And so I I think he's just he's he's arguing it's something that says, I can't believe in this because I think this is outside of his character,

where I have to let scripture change me and say, whatever scripture says is happening, I have to agree not only is true, but also must be right, good, just, merciful, all those things that are character of God because he's doing them. That is the nature of your character's spews out in the things that you do. And so whatever his actions are, they flow from his character. It must be fine. And so he's just taking a tack that says, I won't let scripture change me. I don't like like Dan said, I don't like x, y, or z. So Jesus can't do those things either. So perhaps we'll just understand it differently. Yeah. We can debate all day on, you know, what hell will look like or what heaven would look like. Like you said, we we we don't know. We just know heaven's gonna be better than we can imagine. Hell will be worse than we can imagine. Yeah. You know? God the father believed in hell enough that he sent his son Jesus to die, and and John uses the word of propitiation. You know, this death of Jesus is this turning away of the wrath of God. So, yes, there is some wrath of God that we are avoiding through the death of Jesus Christ, through following him. That, if we don't

have that turning away of wrath, we will receive it. I mean, it it there there will be wrath for the sin in our life. Right. Right. So either you to to believe it's it's subtle what he's talking about, you have to otherwise diminish what Christ has actually done on the cross. Yeah. Yeah. He came for no reason. I mean, it was just he just yeah. Let's go. Yeah. I don't know. Well, that follows in some theology that that it was plan b anyway, the cross. You know? So, alright. Well, I I here's the thing. It's like, I I I don't know.

Maybe this is uncomfortable position or uncomfortable position. Right? Because I like it's not like I'm sitting here saying, yeah. I I like there's something that grabs me about the concept of eternal torture for somebody. But it's it really is a question of, is that the reality?

And do I trust Jesus? Like, those are those are really the two things. Right? Is that the what Bible describes is actually gonna happen, and do I trust Jesus is Jesus? And so as if both of those things are true, then it's gonna be what it's gonna be, and it's gonna be right. Anything beyond that, like, what I what I can't do is say, I I I this displeases me. And so

and because I can't see Jesus acting this way, it must not be right. Like, that says, I get to tell scripture what to be or I get to tell God what to be. And, like, that is exactly the opposite of what Jesus is offering. And so Yeah. As long as I I mean, I suppose if you're this dude, you have to understand what field you're playing in, I guess. That that's the modern day believer, though. It's like, I can't imagine God having an opinion on marriage. I can't have imagine God having an opinion on hell or torturing. Therefore, you know Well, hey, I mean, if you don't like God's way of doing things, there's a place for you. Exactly.

He's handled this, I guess. I I just recommend that you try it God's way. I mean, really, seriously.

Right. Right. Desperately. And you can't separate any of this from the nature of everything else that he's offering. Right? Like, this is a situation of your own of your own creation, if you would if if that's what you decide to do with yourself. He he's given you a pretty easy out here. Judge, try that with the local, you know, police officer when he pulls you over for speeding. Well, I really I really felt like the speed limit should be 55 along this school. There's no kids around, and I just I can't imagine a police offer that's officer that's gonna write me a ticket. Yeah. Yeah. What are you doing? It's just I don't What is this punitive damages you've given me?

Collectively, our spirits in the car don't believe I should have to drive so slow. My spirit animal says I can go 85. Here, let's put it to a vote, officer. He's a leader? Weird. Alright. Alright. Those were the five reasons Christians are rejecting the notion of hell. I There there are aspects of hell that, you know, I would reject. And certainly, the caricature,

the some of the historical things, some of the things that he's particularly picking on, but that doesn't mean that you throw out what Jesus said about hell. It just means that, okay, maybe we should reexamine what Yeah. Has been taught to us. Just because historical evangelical whatever,

has not has not painted the picture correctly, Doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that the idea of the picture was wrong. Yeah. Right? It just means they didn't paint it right. It doesn't mean and you're probably not painting it right either. And actually that kind of leads right into my pope style advice. I was reading through I was reading through Genesis this week and I I came across a story about Jacob which I've I've heard a million times, right? It's it's it's a pretty fancy a pretty well known story about Jacob's ladder. You know, the pathway up to heaven. Just after him and Esau got a a bit of a tough hole after Esther he stole his blessing but there was there was a part of it that

that hit me, and I thought about it a little bit this week, and I thought I'd read it for you. So we're in, what are we? We're in Genesis 28 here. So like I said, this is just when Jacob and Esau got into battle. Jacob stole the blessing from, his older brother Esau. It didn't belong to him. He came up with his ruse or whatever. He stole it. And, and so now he's he's leaving. They're parting ways. So, Jacob left Beersheba and, went toward Haran. And he came to a certain place and stayed there that night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed, and behold, there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And behold, the Lord stood above it and said, I am the Lord, the God of Abraham, your father, and the God of a of Isaac. The land on which you lie, I will give to you and to your offspring. Your offspring shall be like dust of the earth, and you shall spread about aboard to the West and to the East and to the North and to the South. And in you and your offspring shall all the families of the earth be be blessed.

Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land, for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised. Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it. And he was afraid and said, how awesome is this place? This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven. So, I mean, this is a pretty miraculous encounter, first of all, that Jacob has gone through, and he's had he's had a vision of what's going on. And it it's his conclusion that stuck with me. Right? Where he arises and he says,

this place is awesome. That's true. God is awesome. This this has got to be the mouth of heaven. And and he goes to build an altar. He he builds up stones and whatever to to memorialize it. Right? And but I thought, he's wrong, though. You know what I'm saying? This is not the mouth of heaven where he's put these rocks. But but that's what he has, and that's what he thinks. And and and he and he returns to this area a little bit later in his life. He'll come back and run back into it. But, like, his immediate thought was, this is the mouth of heaven. God lives here. Here's what I'm going to do. Now the truth of the matter is is theologically, he's not right. It is not the mouth of heaven. He's got it all wrong completely.

That did not seem to shade, the way that he, followed God, the way that he was obedient, or the way that he lived his life in obedience to God. And so I thought, can can some of this just actually bring the level of hubris down on some of the theological things that we battle about? And I was just thinking about that when we were talking about annihilationism. I don't know. I don't know. It don't sound right to me. Right? But, like, I don't know. I walked up to my what what's the counter view to annihilationism? Eternal life?

Okay. So I'm gonna say I'm counter annihilationism. Or maybe universalism. That's where everybody goes to heaven regardless. Okay. That's definitely not me either. Okay. Crap. There are other views. Yeah. Okay. We're saying there's other views. Right? I came into my view by walking up, and and I've gathered x x whatever, and now I say, this is the mouth of heaven. And this is what I will believe. You know I'm saying? Like like, some of there there are some things that are that are very close handed to to to Jacob.

This was the mouth of heaven. This was a close handed issue. This was the truth. This was the deal. God's sovereignty starts here. And so, like, I found it I I don't know. I I just I think probably my pope style advice is is, like, there are things that are there are definite truths out there. But I don't know. It just seems like you can't hold because Jacob was wrong. He was he was just wrong. It was not the mouth of heaven. He's not right about that. He lived his life according to that and followed the God of his fathers throughout his entire life, regardless whether that was true or not. And so, like, I don't know. I feel like sometimes we just put a lot of weight on a lot of things that aren't, of central importance. It seems like that's kind of a a common phenomenon when someone has a a close encounter with God is that a lot of times the the context around that leads them to say, hey. This is holy ground, or this this situation, this context, whatever it was, is something very special instead of saying, okay. It's God that's special. Right. And and so we end up kinda taking away this this kinda holy ground type theology

instead of holy God type theology. And, you know, we try to recreate that same ground, that same set of circumstances. We try to say, okay, hey, I had a close encounter with God when, you know, this was happening in my life. And so we kind of end up orienting our life around that that sort of context instead of just sort of take it for the moment that it was and for the awesome picture of God that you had,

and why not just invade all the other contexts that you've got? Yeah. And and, you know, take take the same God with you where you're going. Which would be I mean, right, that's gotta produce better results. Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? And and and like I said, some of that is is cultural stuff. Right? Like, of that on how they viewed territorial work of of of gods and and and whatnot.

Huge mistake. And and and you know what? He's not the poorer for it. Now there are some things that can really cause you some trouble in the long run, if you don't get right. But I'm just saying you, if you if you turn some of that focus, all that focus back on the fact that God interacted with you and God is who he says he is, I feel like a lot of those things will just work themselves out and not really not really take up any more of your time or or or waste any time looking at the guy who doesn't believe it's the mouth of heaven and go, I don't care. I don't care. It just doesn't matter. It's not a deal, you know? So anyway, that's my pope style advice. Not everywhere is the mouth of heaven. Just make sure that you're not building stone tablets and pillars where they don't belong.

When we, first started our twenty four seven prayer rooms that we were doing, there there were there were, a number of people had some very significant moments, life changing moments, you know, in in there. And after every prayer room, people there'd always be a handful of people, like, wanting to save, like, the paper on the walls or or different pieces, you know, artwork or something from each prayer room. We were always like, no. Sometimes we just burned them, you know, like, hey, we're gonna pray one more time and burn it, you know, whatever. But we always threw it away because it was the same thing. It's like, you know, you can have that experience anyway. You can pray. I mean, God hasn't left. Know, the moment that moment's not there, but you can always go back to that. But but it's not like you can't continue that relationship with God in a car driving down the road. You know, that piece of paper is just gonna become a distraction to you. Yeah. It's special, but let's not build tents around it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alright. So done. Done. That's done. Just that's done. It's the mouth of heaven. It's mouth of heaven, Mike. Just just be careful. Hey. What was the location again that he gave? It's from between Beersheba and he headed towards Haran. Okay. Wait a minute. That's the mouth of heaven. Wait. That turns out it is the you know what? I really that'll be the day. You know what I'm saying? Hey. Someday, you'll be going, crap. Hey. Listen. That really is the mouth of heaven. That's kinda where we run everything. And Sorry, Jacob. Yeah. That's not really for everybody to know. But Yeah. Actually, we've got Jesus scheduled to come back right there. So you know? Well, that'd be very embarrassing for me. I I set up all the tents at McGiddo. What a mistake.

It was. Alright, Mike. You're listening to Life From The Path on lifefromthepath.org broadcasting

every Monday night from now until late. And actually, think we're it's time for some Pope style advice. Yeah. Not Pope style advice. Dear life in the past. Yeah. Dear life in past. Yep. Okay. Ready to go. Dear life in the past. My husband went to Florida three months ago to care for an ailing former lover. Who? He told me damn. He told me she will be leaving him a sizable inheritance and he just to protect her from vultures.

I admit I am suspicious of his motives. I think there may be more going on than what he's telling me, but he has been painting a pretty picture of how rosy our future will be with her gift. He has now suggested that we get a temporary divorce so he can marry her in order to get her entire estate. He claims it will be nothing more than a business arrangement. His suggestions leave me flabbergasted. Even though our marriage has been rocky at times, I've never seen this side of him. I don't know whether to believe him and be simply disappointed at his cow's behavior or not believe him and conclude that he really wants a divorce so he can marry her. Any thoughts? You could start by going and meeting her.

She's gonna give you a big gift. You wanna know if she's really sick? It sounds like your husband's just trying to tell everyone a story Yeah. They wanna hear. Exactly. So I I'm not sure why you would trust him. But you wanna confirm. You know, it's like, good. Good. Let let hey. Let's all three have a little coffee together, you know, and see how sick she really is. Here's the deal. She looks like she's doing fine. There's some fairly hefty biblical characters who have told lies and attempted shady marriage arrangements and attempt to stay out of trouble. And I'm not following their pattern. And it's been proven to be a poor decision every time. Yeah.

From generation to generation. There's there this is a terrible idea. You know I'm saying? Like How many times did Abraham try to do that with his wife? Three times Abraham tried it, and then his boy tried it, and then his grandkid tried it. Like, all of them tried to do the same ruse in in, like, five different instances. It was outrageous. Sure, Pharaoh. Why don't you marry her? She's just my, quote, sister. Yeah. Yeah. Even take okay.

Outside of the Christian context Mhmm. How easily are your marriage bonds broken? Like like, is this a it's it's the thing with the wedding rings and and marriage in general. Some people say, look, my marriage is what it is. I don't need a certificate. I don't need a ring. Our relationship is what it is. It's strong without those outwardly money driven symbols that people always try to get us to us, to get to. I I 99% of the time, people just don't wanna commit. That that's that's why they say that crap. You know what I'm saying? Like, you get the ring, you promise, and you and and you make an oath, and you and you stick with it. And so, like, basically, you're saying, I would be willing to break up my marriage at least in a temporary fashion for money. That's what I wanna do. I wanna do that. My marriage compared to money, I'll take the money, and eventually, we'll reconcile.

And it seems like a a a very odd suggestion and a and a perilous boardwalk to be walking on. Yeah. You're you've basically sold off your marriage for the possibility of the financial inheritance based on a person dying. So think about it this way. You're gambling on a person's death and,

you know, selling off your marriage for financial gain. I'm not sure which part of this I I could possibly get behind. Wait. Here here's the deal. They don't have to get married. She just has to have a will that says it all goes to him. Right. I mean So so obviously It's all a farce. The whole thing's a farce. Yeah. He's trying to scam the the former lover except that I'm not sure if it's a scam or if He's fam scamming his wife. Yeah. Yeah. Most likely. And then what's the reason to get back with original well, I guess, wife that he currently has? And, you know, once he's got the inheritance, why not go get the younger model? He's got the that's right. He's got the this thing sewn up. He divorces his wife now. Yeah. He marries a woman who will die. Mhmm. She dies. He gets money. Now he's not married at all and has big money. Yeah.

You know what? Get the younger model. That's what he's heading for. Okay. Now now now what what do you tell the wife? Like What do I tell the wife? Say no. It not I I I mean, you gotta say no, but, like, how does she address this now?

What does she do? The man is obviously I mean, there's not one scenario where he's not an idiot or and a jerk. Well, he is an idiot and a jerk, but that doesn't negate the fact that she's committed to him. So he can he's gonna go for a no contest divorce,

even if she won't agree to it? Well, you know, the she can't force him into anything. But, you know, obviously, she can say, hey. Look. I'm not gonna I'm not just gonna go quietly. I I am going to fight for this marriage. And if I'm fighting against you, then that's not the way I wanna do it. But, you know, I I've gotta fight for us. And if the guy's still persistent in it, then, you know,

there's not much you can do about that. Yeah. But, you know, find a better way. I mean, just going down there to deceive some some lady who's, you know, nearing the end of her life in order to

collect the money through come on. There's an easier way to do that. Yeah. And actually, I I mean, most people would say, look, you gotta trust your husband. You gotta let him do what he says to do blah blah blah blah blah. Here's the deal. If you love him and and you are and you care about your marriage,

sometimes it's better not to trust somebody. You gotta stop them from doing something that's going to hurt themselves or others and it's huge. Like, he's believed a lie. He's believed a lie. He thought his life will be better. A, not being married to his current wife and B, when he gets a bunch of money. Everyone who's thinks they're going to get a bunch of money thinks their life's going to vastly improve. And all these things are going to change. Only to find out that money was never the source of joy and it it it generally causes nothing but destruction. Right. And so, yeah, the the man's going to make a huge mistake. If you love him at all, you need to go down there Just just stick your face in there. See what's going on. If he's telling lies, deal with it. If he's telling the truth, you gotta deal with that too. Both of them are weird. Yeah. But you're gonna have to deal with it either way after you get some face value information. Mhmm. Secular says, your husband appears to be still carrying a torch for his old flame. Are you sure she is really sick? If it's the truth, then the vulture, in quotes, I see on the on the horizon may be your husband. I hope you appreciate how extremely manipulative your husband appears to be because of it. And since he has spoken the d word, consult a lawyer to ensure that your interests will be protected regardless of his motives. I'm saying that in case the woman turns out to be healthier than both of you.

Wow. So you think it's it's possible. She thinks this could be just a huge ruse just to produce a divorce. Sure. Yeah. What kind of cowardly dude? Yeah. Boy, just say, hey. I want out, babe. Yeah. If you're the divorcing kind, then, I mean, wear them pants, buddy. We're divorcing. K. Because here here's the deal. As as a guy who has just spent, you know, recently

a good amount of cash in a legal situation with an inheritance that was stolen, It doesn't matter if your blood, doesn't matter if you're married, doesn't matter who you are. It what matters is what the document of the will says. Mhmm. That's all that matters. She can give it to the cat. Matter of fact, people have done that. Yeah. I mean

so him getting married to her means nothing. It all depends on whose name's in the will, and if it's her money, she can choose anything she wants. Yeah. Right. So just getting the will without having to marry them. Yeah. You don't need to get married. You don't need to get divorced. You don't need anything. You just say, hey. That's right up the will if you wanna give it to What a weird circumstance. It's weird. Mhmm. Hey. I'm Aileen. Can you come down here and take care of me? We used to be be lovers. Yeah. Okay. Isn't there a thing aren't there things like a health gigolo or something? Like, can't you hire someone to come and do this type of thing?

This whole thing is it's just weird. It's just weird. Alright. Here we go. Question two. Can he use his creativity for something better than coming up with a scheme like this? Well, here's the deal. I I feel like God's put an artist's heart in the guy. It's just he needs a Very simple. Calling you next week with a Abraham, I know. You need to pay your power bill. Say you're my sister.

Good one. You know what? Maybe you're not the clever captain of the ship you thought you were. They're gonna realize when you kiss her on the lips that it ain't your sister, Abraham.

You you dumb fool. Here we go. Dear life from the path. I'm an attorney. Great. Recently at a party, an acquaintance was talking about some litigation his company is involved in. I commented briefly on something he said, and he responded, we take advice from attorneys we pay, and walked away. Should

I feel insulted, or should I have stayed out of the conversation to begin with? Both. Send him a bill. Wow. There you go. Sensitive bunch? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. In order to to gain respect, please pay me $700. Yeah.

Here's the deal. I think you gotta stop letting passing party conversation define your life. You usually have to let this one go. Who gives a crap either way? Actually, isn't it isn't it pretty pompous to assume that you should be you should be respected and your words should be taken with any weight on some sort of corporate litigation matter? Like walking into the thing and assuming that someone would take your advice or your commentary.

No. That's completely reasonable. I I think he's probably used to the opposite because, anytime I hang around attorneys that I know personally, I'll say, hey, what is your opinion on blah blah blah? I got some free, someone who knows this better than I do advice.

And he kinda this other person kinda responded the opposite. That's really weird. It's like two moms talking about getting their son's braces, and a dentist shows up and says, yeah. Here's actually the thing. Blah blah blah blah. And they go, we only take advice from paid dentists. That's the exact situation we're in. You're talking about his waters, where he swims, what he knows, and then Well, maybe he doesn't, though. Like, maybe he's actually not qualified to discuss such a thing. It doesn't say that. It's no special. Backstory to the man. Of course, he wouldn't say that. There's a lot of different disciplines to practicing the law. Consider my man an expert in the field. Dear Abby, I'm incompetent in this area but spoke out of turn, and now I'm offended. That's I mean He knows be the case. He knows litigation.

I can file a lawsuit on my own behalf. Ted Bunny defended himself. Listen to me. Oh, yeah. A stellar defense. Assume for for conversation sake, this man is well versed in the conversation that was going on. It is his area of litigation. Alright. That that's fine. But he's he's at a party, and he's discussing it publicly. For any yahoo to just enter into the conversation and say, hey. Why not try it this way? It seems like it's fair game. For the fact that this yahoo app actually happens to come in with a law degree and professionally practice it should, in theory,

up the ante to some extent, but the guy's just dismissing him. Yeah. Maybe he's discussing this conversation in a place that he shouldn't be then. In greater detail. If it's such a private thing Yeah. You know, do it on your time. I'm just saying I would do this in a heartbeat. If I caught someone talking about something that I know very well they're about to make a mistake, I would stick my face in there and say, I feel like you don't wanna do that, here's why. Well, yeah. That's common courtesy. Yeah. He's just over invested in their response. Right? Like, if they're gonna ignore his advice, they're gonna ignore his advice. Yeah. Mhmm. Hey. Sorry. Minor clarification. Ted Bunny did not represent himself. So Swell came out for someone who's just as poignant to use as an example that actually did defend themselves. Okay. Carry on. Who did Swell? No. I know somebody else, maybe. I really I need a big name to make my point, and head bunny's apparently not gonna work out. So It's really up to your credibility. That's for sure. Somebody else. What do know about corporate litigation? Let's see. Secular says, some people think that anything that's offered for free is without value, and it appears that the man you encountered is one of them. Because this is his worldview, try not to take it personally. Your motives were generous. I see no reason to muzzle yourself in the future if you think you have something helpful to say.

Actually, I had that I had that experience. I was, someone was invited me over to their house, and it was a it was a husband and wife, they were they were talking, and they wanted me to help them resolve a particular issue. And so we were talking to that issue, and there was ultimately, like, a communication issue. And, like, I broached that subject in there. And he said, we talk about that with our therapist, and we really don't want your input on that matter. I said, well, I feel like I can't help you. Yeah. It was very awkward. Like, I was sitting in their living room, and, like, the root of issue a

was the communication problem in issue b. Mhmm. And they said, yeah. We just, we really don't wanna we don't think that's in your business, or we don't want your advice on that matter. We're paying someone else to help us with that. Was like, well, I'm very sorry. I'll be going to the gas station now for a coffee and going home. Obviously, that's a pretty touchy subject for them. So, you know Apparently. That sucks. Alright. You wanna do one more? Yeah. One more. Here we go. Last one. Dear life from the path. My boyfriend, parentheses Richard,

is fifteen years my senior. And the more he is involved in my life, the more overprotective he is becoming. Mhmm. Some of his concerns are legitimate. Why? Because you live a reckless life. I live perilously, and he's right. I run with knives.

Some of his concerns are legit, but it seems like he considers me more like a child or parentheses little woman than his equal partner. He isn't comfortable with me walking two blocks from my house to a friend's house at night without an escort. Why are you doing that? I recently obtained my motorcycle license, and he doesn't want me riding at night. This woman is a cartoon. The latest issue that he doesn't want me to walk him to his car because he would rather me be locked safely in the house. I think I'm capable enough to cross my front lawn at night without being attacked. How do I differentiate between legitimate concern and overprotective paranoia? Wow. Where do they live? I think that helps. I would know. Yeah. It'd be good to know. I mean, she is in Chicago where people are being shot every day, or is it

she escorts him out to his car. Can you just say goodbye, sweetheart? I'll see you tomorrow at the door? Listen. There's something walk you to your Toronado. There's something There's something. There's a whole thing not being said here. Like Yeah. This woman just as well wrote in and say, look. Dear life from the path, I like to do LSD while I ride my motorcycle with no helmet while throwing knives at gang members. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's leaving something out. The whole thing sounds ridiculous. Okay. Is there an age gap of which like, an age range which just makes sense? Like, she's 35. He's 50. She's 20. He's 35.

Like, yeah. She's, like, in her early twenties, and he's, you know, 35 or something. Yeah. Who walks over to their friend's house? Anytime you're fifteen years older than someone, you have a you've been down the road further. You know? Yeah. You just you you you they're gonna do things and go like, yeah. You know, you'll figure it out. He's just more vocal about it. Yeah. Yeah. She's up to something weird, though. She is. She's still living that young lifestyle. I feel like she's 17, and he's actually 50.

Okay. Like, she's lied about the age disparity, and she's a nut. Yeah. I just got my motorcycle license. And I know a guy that sells quailings. I guess this is what happens when you marry someone your dad's age. So guess what? Yeah. There you go. Why would you insist oh, did did that did that happen? Sorry. I'm stuck on the No. No. You're right. Since woman is 17, what what kind of lady walks a man to his car? Yeah. Like, I mean, that that had happened to me since I was in high school. That's not grown

woman. That is kind of a teenage romance, isn't it? My wife opens the door in front door and says, don't be dragging that snow in here. I missed the days. My wife walked me to my car. Can we kiss by the car for more moments? Can we have a moment? No. Well, get out. What are you creeped? Pooped on the floor. We're not having a moment. Yeah. Yeah. That's something's something's definitely not right. She's 17, and she's on a list of drugs. That's what I think.

Get my driver's license soon. Wait. What's her advice to her? Yeah. You gotta break up with this guy. Break up with him? He's on your own age. Yeah. You're you're the they're married. No. Didn't say that. No. It's boyfriend. Oh, boyfriend. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Dump.

That's it. Waste of time. Break it off. We're done. He does her, but he's getting what he wants. So Yeah. Yeah. It's only gonna get worse when he starts to become unmobile in his older years. Dan clarifies companionship. He's he's getting what he wants. Before you guys attack me. Mike, I like how you have this guy in a walker, like, next year. Yep. With a shotgun.

Okay. Here we go. Secular's advice is, if your neighborhood is safe, this then may be a question of how your boyfriend is presenting his concerns to you. If he is suggesting that he would prefer you be more cautious after dark, that's one thing. However, if he's insisting, then it's something else. And it could be a tip-off that he's not only parental, but controlling. Yeah. I I didn't get that vibe at all. I think you wanna wear black pants, black shirt, and then go running at nighttime. Feel like you would have a terrible life, and he's trying to keep you from hurting yourself. Yeah.

I don't know. He he's pretty concerned with the location. I'm I'm gonna know where they live. Toronto. The dodgy end.

Alright. You've been listening to Life for the Path. Thanks so much for hanging out with us here. We're glad to be back, and, we will see you, next week same, same time, 10:00 at lifefromthepath.org on Monday nights. Hook up with the podcast. You can check out the show whenever you see fit. And if you have any questions or comments for the show, shoot us an email at [email protected]. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will take care of the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.