Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path. And you are listening to live from the Pathway Showing you from the Pathway Studios

here in Johnston Proper. My name is Ben Foust. I will be your host for this evening. You look. Don't even have anybody around to do any type of, like, I don't know, alternative commentary. Like, that's all that's all we have going on. It's it's that opening in me. Hey. So

it is kind of an interesting night here on Life in the Path. It is just me hanging out. This is my name is Ben. You'll be familiar with me. I'm usually the guy that opens the show, and usually, there's like a gang of cats hanging around with me. But through through some circumstances or another, sounds like a bad burrito, heavy work schedule, some class stuff, and, I don't know, my willingness to drive out here. It's just me and you hanging out today. So, we'll see how that goes. So there's just been a couple of things on my mind. And, I don't know. You'll have to tell me this is worth listening to for, you know, forty five minutes or so.

But just a couple of things I was I was kinda thinking about during the day today that I thought maybe you'd be interested in. So first of all, I don't know if you guys have you ever heard of the musician Derek Webb? He's, he's kind of an interesting dude. I first came across his tunes, I wanna say, maybe four or five years ago, just listening to some online, online lectures, and and one of his songs came up.

And he he was a fairly like, I hadn't heard him before then, but apparently, was a fairly popular dude. He had married a girl named Sandra McCracken, who I actually just saw. All Sons and Daughters was in town, had been at a concert just I think it was a week or two ago,

and and and we got involved in it. Somebody we knew, Chris Akers, as a matter of fact, who's been on the show, said that they could use some help taking tickets and help them load the band in and set them up and stuff. And so we kind of volunteered for that. Me, Mike, and Guestman went out And, and so that was kind of a cool experience, but, like, I was I was excited to see both of them. But Sandra Cracken, I was really excited about. She had she just released a new album called God's Highway, which I like. The one just before that, though, was a Psalms album, and the production really isn't up my alley. Like, I'm I'm a bit more of a she's a singer songwriter, but the the vibe of the album wasn't necessarily that.

But, but I really did I really did like the album. And, so, yeah, I was excited to see her. And I like I said, I I've heard a little bit about her having been married to, to Derek Webb. And the reason all that is kinda relevant is he had posted something, earlier this year that, I remember reading at the time, and I thought was just very honest, very powerful,

and, very appropriate, I think, for for fellas to know just just how few steps we probably are away to

destroying a lot of things. And that sounds overly dire. But so he he they had been married for, like, thirteen years. I think they had a couple children, and we're we're a bit of a of a power couple, I think, in the in the Christian music industry. And I'm speaking all this about things I've read because it like I said, I I just wasn't kind of ingrained in the Christian music industry at the time, so I can't speak all that well to it. But but it but, anyway, he so he ends up it sounds like he ends up cheating on her in some way or another, and they end up getting a divorce after thirteen years of marriage. And it's like, it was a very difficult thing, I think, for people to digest. You had kinda had these two people who were, you know, passionate about,

about Jesus. They were, you know, people that you could look up to. They were very original in the way that their their their songwriting and, the beautiful voices, beautiful songs. And and so so anyway, I I tell you all that background though to kind of help digest a little bit of of this of this blog post. And and let me just read it to you, and and then maybe I'll we'll we'll see if you guys have any reactions to it. But

it was it happened in January 2016. They'd put out a statement about the divorce and hadn't really said much. They said, look, it's just a sad thing, and we've decided to divorce, and we asked for privacy. And then as part of that announcement, though, they said, Derek, although that we're both sinners, Derek has accepted responsibility you know, for leading to this decision. So it's kind of clear that he was otherwise, the catalyst to this,

but they hadn't been overtly clear as to what exactly had happened in this case. So, maybe that's some decent background for you. But, anyway, the the title of the blog post was on failure, liturgy, and New Year's. This is from Derek Webb from January of this year. Says, I have thought for a long time about how, when, and honestly, if I would write this. But with some time and healing behind me in the start of a new year, I felt that it was time. As I'm sure you know by now, my wife and I divorced a little over a year ago. At the time, we put a lot of thought into what we considered an appropriately benign and simple statement, which we released together announcing the sad news. A very good and wise friend, someone who has also gone through some hard things publicly, gave what I consider valuable counsel while you're in while your instinct and people's expectation might be to go into a lot of detail on what you share publicly about a situation like this, it's very rarely a good idea.

But with some perspective and much personal health and growth over the past year, it now feels incongruent to leave the subject unaddressed publicly. I can imagine that many of you felt and maybe still feel confused, disappointed, angry even at hearing the news of our split. There was an understanding, a trust broken between you and me. I've heard it said that that trust takes years to build and seconds to break. My hope is that this writing might be the first step towards rebuilding that trust. In the brief statement that was released about our divorce, it said that I took full responsibility for the events that led to the decision. That is true, but I want to take this opportunity to say more. The truth is I cheated.

I betrayed the trust of my wife. I betrayed the trust of my family, my friends, and my community, and I betrayed the trust and support that many of you have entrusted me with for many, many years. What started as a brief inappropriate and quickly confessed connection with a very old friend evolved quickly into something more serious, which was hidden from spouses and friends. It continued in secret for a matter of months was eventually discovered and set into motion the consequences that I will now live with for the rest of my life. Or more simply said, I was a fool.

I believed lies which led me to tell lie. This is why temptation is so tempting. It's insane how quickly it becomes rational and reasonable to believe and to do destructive and evil things. As much as I wish I could, I simply cannot change what I've done nor the resulting consequences. I can only own these despicable actions which have left me completely devastated and deeply ashamed. Sometimes, no matter how bad you want it or how hard you fight for it, broken things just can't be mended.

The only path forward from here is to continue focusing on health and healing by children and parents and investing in safe community. That brings me to one of the most important things I can emphasize. Through what's easily been the hardest few years of my life, many friends left, a precious few stayed, and some new friends showed up for which I am so grateful and without whom I might not have survived. For most of my life, and certainly as these events transpired, I've been dramatically under resourced with people around me with whom I've been truly vulnerable, who really knew me. The importance of having a handful, even just one or two safe people in your life with whom you can and do truly share everything, especially the hardest and most shameful things, cannot be overstated.

I see this as one of the most important and life altering changes that the devastation has brought about in my life. Although it took time, I found a wise therapist, several groups of men with whom I spend regular time, and a handful of friends who I consider to be among the best I've ever had. I would plead with you to find a small group of safe men or women, friends who will not respond with platitudes of morality but will instead get down and not only join you but stay with you in your shit in hopes of helping pull you out. Inevitably, they'll need you to join them in there someday. You might be a man or woman reading this even now finding yourself exactly where I was two years ago, seriously considering choices that could destroy your life, your family and maybe yourself. If that's you, please listen to me. What you think you want, what you think you can have is not real and you'll lose real things pursuing it. As an unfortunately and extremely reliable source, please believe me.

So if you're standing on that steep ledge, stop. Don't do it. At very least, risk telling someone immediately and give opportunity to hear some understanding and perspective, Maybe some sanity restoring words that might be the small disruption needed to shake you awake. Tell the whole truth and keep telling it. Your marriage is worth it. Your future is worth it. The tone and spirit of the songs I've written over the last decade or so have sometimes been called prophetic, a term that I've worn with extreme discomfort. But it turns out my songs have been eerily prophetic. In my own story, for years, borrowed this language from Ezekiel. I am a whore, I do confess, but I put you on like a wedding dress and I run down the aisle. Hard as they have always been to sing, I'm especially grateful to have those words to confess today as I've never known them to be more deeply true of myself as I am running down that aisle still.

There's always been some measure of distance between me and the content of my songs. There's a sense in which even the most confessional of my songs like Wedding Dress or its more recent sibling heavy felt like they were about someone else. So, the accidentally prophetic sting of those songs is especially acute and painful in light of my great failures. Songs like those have never been more difficult to sing, but I've never been more grateful to have to. I've said recently that my songs feel like my personal liturgy, things that I don't necessarily or always believe, but I show up to recite again and again in hopes of believing them. If I'm honest, most of the time, I don't believe the words in my songs. I have a hard time believing in a god that could make, let alone love a man who could do such things. So I'll go on reciting and adding to my liturgy in hopes of believing the words because I wish to. More than ever,

I wish to. So let me give you a chance here just, in case you're unfamiliar with some of his music, let me just play a little bit of a tune for you. And then then I want to talk about, I want to talk about the content. There's just a lot in there that I really, really liked. I I don't know. Probably in an overly positive way, you know, like Facebook like style, but, they're good things to rem remember. They're very interesting things to ponder, and I think they're probably more applicable to most of our lives than we probably wanna readily admit. So, anyway, this this song is one of my favorites of his. It's the first one I heard from him. It's called Rich Young You Ruler.

And, yeah, just just listen to a little bit of this, and then, I'll hop right back in with you. I think one of the one of the strong reasons that I I don't know, I connect with that song because it sounded that chorus especially sounded right. And, like, he obviously was talking about it in the in the terms of, you know, financial things, the things that we didn't wanna give up that were the very things that kinda rooted it out and made it so that we were

actually, I don't know, giving up our lives. Right? That we are we we were losing our lives to gain it. And I I don't know. It was that's it just that someone just grabbed me. I liked it anyway, but I I think there was the the underlying theological girding, I guess,

was was pretty strong for me. And so, like, I think that's kinda what what drew me to that guy. It was there was very honest kinda longing in the songs. I I'll tell you this. He's got a lot of tunes out there. Mockingbird was his his, kind of most popular album, and he's done, like, a number of iterations of that album where it's kinda been released again, with some remixes and stuff like that. There's an acoustic there's an all acoustic album

that is difficult to find. Like, you can't get it from any of the streaming sites, but you can find it out on Amazon from, like, third party sellers, and they'll sell you the disc. You can't get it in digital format. But that one is my absolute favorite. Like, of all the albums I've kinda listened to, that's the one I bought. And it's just kinda him and an acoustic guitar doing a lot of the songs that are from the Mockingbird album. But but that one was on there, and I actually like the acoustic version a little bit better. I I wore that one out, which was still possible with the CD. So, anyway, I just wanna give you a taste to that. So you had some sort of connection with the guy. As as now we kinda go back and and and think about some of the stuff that he wrote here. So

I thought it was interesting where he was talking about kind of the wise counsel. Right? Like, he he he talked about kind of betraying his wife, and then when he he started talking about, temptation

and and and hiding things, and I I just let me read this to you again. This is why temptation is so tempting. It's insane how quickly it becomes rational and reasonable to believe and do destructive and evil things. As much as I wish I could, I simply cannot change what I've done nor the resulting consequences. I can only own these despicable actions which have left me completely devastated and deeply ashamed. Sometimes, no matter how bad you want or how hard you fight for it, broken things just can't be mended. And, there's a there's a couple things in there that really struck me. And the the first one is is that, like, he says it's insane how quickly it becomes rational and reasonable to believe and do destructive and evil things. And I guess what I was had in my mind was

is that I feel that. Like, feel that personally. And and I wonder I wonder if that's true for for for a lot of us. May maybe it's just me, I guess. But, like, like, my stability in life, my right I'm trying to think of the right way to put this. My

trajectory, I guess. My protected path of following Jesus and keeping in right relationship with God, right relationship with my wife,

trying to hold all those things in the right balance to pursue them with the right, passion and and stay on the course. It's a very delicate it's a very delicate thing of known wise people who love Jesus,

who can believe lies, who can be easily taken in to believe things that aren't true. And he gets to that later. That's also, I thought with a very poignant part there. I'll read that again here in a second. But, like, I just I I looked at I started thinking about my own life, and, like, I've I've not been in a position like that. I I I don't I'd like to think it's because I don't put myself in those positions, but, I mean, it's prob it's possible that I just I've I've never, been faced with a legitimate

and real tangible temptation in that area, I guess. And that goes for a lot of things, I suppose. But, like, I was just thinking, I I don't know I don't know that I actually trust myself. I I I don't know that I could say with a 100% certainty that if you provided the right circumstances that I would willingly believe a lot and be suckered into to believing something about myself or something about a relationship or a situation or something. And then maybe it's not so bad or whatever it is. You know, like, I I think that is a realization that I I'm grateful to be reminded of at times, I guess, is that

I'm just as susceptible as every as every fool out there. As every person who said this type of thing doesn't happen to me. I won't get caught up in this. I won't believe this lie or that lie or taken in by this circumstance or this isn't the situation that I thought it was gonna be, or or, like, you know, this isn't how this thing start. This is this is innocent. This is whatever it is, I guess. You know, everyone's got a, a moment where they're like, was blind, and then then you're and then you're dead. Right? Like, you you get caught up in something, and then you have no idea, until it's it's stamping you into the ground. And I I wonder if that's I don't know. Every time that I've done every time that I've known that I've been kind of an open defiance to something where I just know there's no joy in there, that I'm taking a short easy way out that serves me in one way or another, and it's counter to what God has.

I've known it most of the time. Most of the time I've known it. I you know, we could get below. I had I had no idea. I I just I don't know. Maybe I don't buy that, I guess. Maybe I don't buy that. And and and it's probably true that I think about it. Anytime I've made the decisions like that, I've purposely put myself in those circumstances. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I don't think we're falling into these types of things. I think we just had to believe a series of lies. And and frankly, we probably knew they were lies at the times to get to some of these places, to put ourselves in those types of circumstances and say, maybe this is alright. And, you know, there's there's there's a shifting worldly standard that some people can accept certain circumstances, and maybe that's not for you. Maybe you can't handle that stuff, and so you gotta stay out of it.

But but I I just it it does still seem though that we probably need to be reminded of how fragile how fragile these things are. Like, some of the some of the relationship problems that people have in their marriages, like, I just don't have. Like, I've never had. And I'd like again, I'd like to think those things I I think it's you know, part of it is that we have, my wife and I have a god centered marriage, like, honoring to god, honoring to each other. We this is one thing that I've that I've told many people is that, like, if you're, you know, asking for marriage help or counseling or whatever, like, I can't help you unless you otherwise agree on Jesus because that that is that is our arbiter. That's how we solve problems is kind of submission to what what joy and goodness is in those in in that connection, in that relationship. And because we agree on Jesus,

that authority otherwise allows us to change in the ways that we should. And so, you know, I I'd like to think that that's the reason that I don't have some of these problems in my marriage, but, like, you know, the truth is is there's there probably isn't has been much risk there too. And, again, maybe that's intentional as well. I don't know. You know? He he touches on some of that stuff in the article. I guess the broad point, though, or the broad thing I'm thinking of is that,

it's it's probably worth continually examining, I mean, diligently examining, is don't be fooled. Don't be blind to think that you can't be suckered into something. How many guys how many times have we seen it? Right? Like, you've seen the most powerful people in the world do something so freaking stupid that, like, they and it's a lot of at times, it's with their willy. But, like, whatever it is, there's you have people who could who have, you know, the most, I I don't know, handsome or beautiful spouse. They have a ton of money. They can do whatever they want. And and, ultimately, like, you think those there'd be a way,

that there would be enough that you wouldn't otherwise be dragged into something so freaking dumb. But, like, it happens over and over and over again, whether it's, you know, it's politicians or it's, you know, rich folk or actors and actresses. And here's the deal. It's like, I I they're just more noticeable. My my point is that of of all the things that we think we would be satiated by or satisfied with, that doesn't actually seem to be enough. And they ended up getting drug into something beyond that, and get themselves into some bad circumstances.

And like that had just as susceptible to that are people who don't have those privileges. But I guess the thing, there's not a level of protection here. Like there's there's any level that we will believe a lie and get kinda suckered into something. So he's like, when he said, you might be a man or woman. Let's see.

Where was it? He was talking about safe people in his life. Well, maybe it doesn't matter. We we just said I simply said I was a fool. I believe lies, led me to telling lies. Like, I be I believed things. He said, oh, yeah. Here we go. If that's you, so he said, you might be a man or woman reading this even now, finding yourself exactly where I was two years ago, seriously considering choices that could destroy your life, your family and maybe yourself. If that's you, please listen to me. What you think you want,

what you think you can have is not real. You'll lose real things pursuing it as an unfortunately and extremely reliable source. Please believe me. And, I mean, I suppose there's a perception there that says something is better than than what I have. And that's that's the base nature of the lie right there. Right? You know, a, you god wants something different from my life, so he's providing me an out that is not, on the other side of my problems. And, like, his thing is a fidelity thing,

and there's probably some relevance to that to most people, but, like, it could be anything. Right? Like, anytime that you're you're taking a cheap out, you're thinking short term about something that is a long term slog, that is a joy is in the perseverance, and knowing real true honest things as opposed to chasing lies and looking for short term satisfaction in them. And, like I said, I think that's a risk in everybody's in everybody's life. You look around and and maybe it's a pursuit of money, maybe it's pursuit of a different relationship or whatever. Like, sometimes the we we want an easy answer to something. We we want to not have to go through the hard work of saying, you know what? I I freaking hurt somebody in my marriage, or this person is terrible to me. Like, they didn't start out that way, but they treat me like crap. And, like, there's just a there's a way to work through that. There almost always is if you have two willing participants at somewhere, or another. It just may take a long, long time, And we get sick of the fight, we get we get lazy about things and can we and kinda bail on them. And so one of the things he did he did talk about, said, I would plead with you to find a small group of safe men or women, friends who will not respond with platitudes of morality, but will instead get down and not only join you, but stay with you in your shit in hopes of helping pull you out. Inevitably, they'll need you to join them in there someday.

I forgot that was in there. But, you know, the I think I think that's an important because that, a good community helps you write your reality. As a matter of fact, I, again, I can say personally that anytime that I was trying to pursue something that I knew was I knew was wrong, that's the same thing that I'm not going to openly discuss in front of this group of people. Generally, the dudes that are generally in this room with me

is because they would set it straight. Right? Like, you don't say things to those guys because you wanna set it straight. So, like, it's also when I can tell. Like, I've had circumstances where there's guys that I would normally talk to, and then suddenly, I'm not talking to as much, or they're not sharing the same types of things, or they're kinda backing away on stuff. And, like, the the reality is is that, they're they're purposely hiding something, and it's generally not as they've not done something that they shouldn't have, but they're two steps back from it, and they don't wanna get caught, because they wanna go through with it. Like, that's the nature of temptation and sin is that something you actually wanna do. And so you start plotting and lying and covering things up, and it's just a pain in the ass to have to try to hunt all that stuff down. And, and, yeah, that is that is what happens with the you start kinda dodging community,

and you you don't wanna be held up to that standard in, like, I I I don't know. May maybe, I don't know, you know, whoever's listening here. I I don't know what your relationship is with Jesus, but, like, we we read things like this or maybe we see things like this, and our relationship with God is kind of the same way as we feel like it's a it's a bat. Like, someone's kinda terrorizing. You got your friends coming after you all the time, accusing of stuff. But here's the thing. It's like, like, in my right mind, I put those things on intentionally. In my right mind, I'm recruiting guys saying, look. I I want the best thing.

Why would I be why would I be such a fool as to not want the best thing? And if the best thing is what god has kinda laid out for life, if he's the creator, if he knows you, he knows what's right and wrong, he knows what brings joy, he knows what brings sadness and pain, and he says, look, these are the things of joy. You're persevering. You're honoring people. You're submitting. You're serving. Like, in your relationships, that's what it is. You know what? In your in your wealth, I want you to give. I care more about what you give than what you take in. I just I I want generosity. I want people, like, taking care of other people. Like, that's what that's what joy brings. And I look at it and I say, you know what? If I believe god is who he says he is and that the things these things are true, then I will do whatever I need to do to put things in place to make sure I stick with them because only a fool would fight that type of thing. And so when I start to go off the rails and start walking around towards something that isn't beneficial to me, my marriage, my walk with Jesus, my friends, my community, my giving, whatever it is, like, I would the right thing to have done is put people in place that would stop me. And so, like, we we will look at it as a shackle or a handcuff that says, hey, man. I don't want people telling me what to do. And the thing is I sure as hell do if they're telling me the right thing to do. Right? If I in my right mind, when I'm otherwise not being dominated by some one sin or another that's trying to drag me into making a fool out of myself, if I put the right things in place so that my brother can call me and say, dude, I you know, I I saw that. I saw you, you know, posted something on Facebook or, you know, what you're talking about doesn't make any sense or, like, you told I heard you tell your wife that you were gonna be somewhere and you you were somewhere else. Like, I put those things rightly in place because I actually truly want joy, And I want other people to fight for it if I'm in the position that I think that where I'm kinda bailing on it. Like, that's the those are the right things to put in place. So that's not a shackle. That's a support system.

Like, that's a community that's coming to your rescue in a way that you would have wanted to. Like, I I just you know, I it doesn't make any sense, but here's the thing. You can't make right decisions like that when you're in the middle of it. When you're in middle of it, you're gonna act like a fool. That's, that's what he was getting at me. I was a fool. I believed lies. And the thing is is that, like, if you if you start rejecting things that otherwise point those lies out to you, like, you're plotting to get away with it. That's you start separating yourself from scripture. You start separating yourself from community. Start telling lies to the people around you. Start hiding stuff. Any here's the deal. Anytime there's a notion of trying to hide something, regardless of whether the thing you're hiding has any consequence to somebody else, there's some sort of evil sitting inside your heart that's trying to keep you away from something. K? That's that's the truth of it. Right? Like, I we just don't understand this, especially in our culture. Like, we we get caught up in in kind of formalities or, not wanting to hurt people's feelings and that kind of thing. And, like, even white lies are really dangerous. And I I'm

I struggle with this because I tell a lot of lies to the children that I think are that are like jokes. And sometimes, most of the time, they know the difference. Sometimes, they maybe they don't. And and my wife's been kinda asking me about that. And truth, she's probably right. Like, anything that even sniffs of dishonesty is a risk for you. It's a risk for me. And I suppose it takes us down the a trajectory that we, I don't know, it just puts us a lot of trouble. Anytime you find yourself plotting to hide something, that's a serious risk. So, like, what does it look like if we can just live our lives in complete and honest freedom? We just say true things, and we say true things all the time. And we don't guard things. I like, mean, it doesn't mean you're not nice. It doesn't mean you're not careful with you know, that your words aren't unnecessarily hurting people. What I'm saying is that, like, when it comes to your behavior, when it comes to things that you're thinking about, when it comes to things that are weighing on you. Right? Like, you wake up and you've,

you find that you've been kinda focusing on someone more than you should have. If you find that, you know, you've been thinking, you know, how can I stash this little money around somewhere to do something? Ultimately, my wife won't notice the difference on the money or my you know, it's alright if I step out and have lunch with this person or whatever it is. Like, just say things out in the open. You don't want trouble? Then don't find it. Like, you you wanna live in freedom? Then do so. Right? You're gonna do something? Then then say everything out loud. Hey. I'm gonna go have lunch with this person today. Say it out to your wife two hours beforehand. So if she comes back and says you ain't going, you ain't going. It's the wrong thing to do. Say it somewhere in your community. Like, find dudes that you trust, whatever it is. Like, that's where freedom lives, man. Like, we're we're dishonest. We're dishonest in the things that we actually want. Like, we say, hey. Look. I wanna live in freedom. I I wanna have a good marriage. I wanna have the joy of the Lord. I wanna have, like, all these things a part of our lives. And then anytime we we purposely put things in place, like, that allow us to hide things or allow us to not live in complete honesty, and I mean bold, flagrant honesty, we're we're we're being dishonest about what we actually want.

And that's that's probably the hard part. Like, that's that's the thing that's constantly tugging at us is saying, you know, I I want this short term thing, and and we have no perspective of what the long term joy in something is. And so we fight for the short term thing. And if we're if we had the chance to kinda macro level step back, we would say, yeah. I definitely want the long term thing. But, like, it's tough to fight, I guess, against those, those short term temptations that otherwise drag us away from what we actually want. I can tell you this, like, it makes me think of every time that I,

I don't know, felt distance from God. The almost every time, the very next time I went to scripture, I thought, I just I need to read something. And I and I started to read, I thought, like, my heart just filled with joy and I thought, I missed Jesus. I missed I missed the peace that comes with reading about God and his character, his grace, and his mercy, that kind of thing. Like, just it reoriented me. It put me back to where I needed to to thinking right things, thinking true things. It's something a guy said in an article this week. I was gonna, we I don't know. We probably won't get to it tonight. But, like,

it was one of the things we have to recognize about our faith is that faith isn't just like a a a moral principles. Like, it it speaks truth. It is it defines truth and then calls us to adhere to it. And and sometimes I need to be reminded about true like, what is true? Like, what are the true things in the world? What are the things that I believe that I shouldn't believe? And and what are the things that are giving me off course? And and the truth is if I go back and I dip into scripture and I and I'll be reminded of what true things are, what is truth, where does it come from, who speaks true things, and, what am I thinking, where is that not aligned with that,

I have something very, very gracious to submit to that can otherwise reorient my path. And and and, you know, one of the things that's been sitting on me, probably the last three years is listen to people who love Jesus, who claim to I don't know I don't know how to put that. Who claim to love Jesus. We'll put it that way. Who would say that they love Jesus Christ and then shift their

shift their thoughts or opinions can change over time on one social issue or another. And as I watch those things evolve, like somehow they've separated true things that Jesus has said from true things or things they claim to be true in

in the here and now. And I don't I guess that that's that's the thing. It's like a lot of a lot of times, it comes from some some measure of sympathy, right? Like, want to look at a group of people, and we want to say, look, these people are being mistreated. Or if we were more loving in these circumstances, like the position that you're taking that we say is biblical, is harsh or is cruel or is mistreating a group of people or whatever. Okay? That's generally what's being lodged against it. And it's on the foundation that Jesus loves people, we should otherwise change how we, react to this particular circumstance. K?

And the thing is, is that like almost every time what they've done though is you've taken something, I've taken true things from the Bible and I've thrown them out in order to agree with other true things from the Bible. And so as opposed to saying, hey, this is all true. How can how do the both of these things work together? How can I say, Jesus loved these people, and he says you can't keep acting like this? This is not this is not good for you. This is not what I created for you. This is not where joy is.

No. This is this is not right. This is not right behavior. This is not the right way to think. And and if and if Jesus has said true things about that, like, how do we I I I just don't understand how people aren't recognizing the level of dishonesty here because here's the things. I'm likely to get pulled in whatever liberal sob fest is going on. Because despite my,

predilections to the other to the contrary, like, I love I love people. I want to mourn with mourning people. I hate the thought of people being mistreated, especially coming out of the church who are supposed to exemplify who Jesus Christ is. And we've taken people who who whose very lifestyle

or frame of mind or thought processes or behavior are like dead ringers for us to know that they really need Jesus Christ and what we did was beat them up for a while. And, like, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing because it's it doesn't smell like Jesus at all. But but here's the thing.

I'm likely to sympathize with that type of thing and that is my reaction to people. But because I love them, why on earth would I lie to them? Why on earth would I take such a gracious gift of truth that Jesus has given us and then just withhold it from somebody to try to account for the lies that we've otherwise told them on the opposite side of the problem? It's it's stupid. Like, it's it's foolishness, and I don't understand,

like, I don't understand how we got there. I don't know how we how we got into this position. Well, I I mean, don't know. Maybe it's just easier. Maybe it feels like it's easier to to treat people that way or to try to make amends for past mistakes, But it doesn't it's it's not consistent with someone who says I wanna love and follow Jesus, and I love people. Because if I wanna love and follow Jesus and I agree who he is, then I then the stuff that he says is true and that the spirit is otherwise inspired is true. And, like, I don't know how I don't know how a reasonable, a rational person would bail on true things. And then how can I look someone in the eye and say, look, I love you and I care about you and I'm sorry for the wrong that's been done to you and intentionally withhold from them true and gracious things that the lord has given? I I I don't understand it. And and, like, I I guess I get where people where where people are coming from. Like, they're they're fighting for perspective of of blindness, something that the that the church has done in, like, poorly in the past. I just

I guess I I struggle with how, like, personally, how they got to that point. Hey, Nick Hey, man. Hop on hop on the deal. Nick hey, man. Good thing. Nick Harris. Harris, I was I've been blathering on for a long time, and it's not good for for anybody. Go ahead and tap on that mic for a second, will you? How are you doing? Okay. There we go. There's Nick Harris right there. Okay. Good. Good to see you, man. Hey. Hey. Good to see you too. Hey, man. Me and Nick me and Nick me and Nick haven't been able to hook up for a while. It is good to see you. Yeah. I've been working two jobs lately. And Oh, hey, man. Congratulations. Yeah. Thanks. How's it going?

Tiring, but Screwed on up to the microphone so the phone Okay. Yeah. Tiring, but, you know, God's work gotta get done somewhere. That's right. That is right on. That is that is the cure to the evil ills of society. Right? God's work gotta get done one way or another. Yes, sir. That's true. So I I couldn't honestly tell you what I've been talking about for the last forty five minutes. Did you see nobody else came to the show tonight? Yeah. I know I was kinda late, and I'm sorry everybody. You know, I'm I'm late. That's alright. So okay. Actually, I don't remember. I was off on, like, 10 different tangents here. So I was reading are you familiar with a guy named Derek Webb? He's a a singer songwriter.

No. Okay. That's alright. So the the the story what I was reading about was he had been married. He's a fairly popular guy. Okay. Had married another popular singer songwriter named Sandra McCracken. They were married for, like, thirteen years, both Christian artists. Okay. And then they got divorced. And he was he wrote a blog post kind of describing his divorce, and it was on him. And he said so. He said this was on me. I I I cheated on my wife. Okay. And one

of the things that the the thing I was talking about was how how easy it is it seems to believe lies. Right? Like like, I wanna look at a guy like that and say, oh, I could never do that. I would never cheat on my wife. Right? Mhmm. But, like, his description kinda says, look, I, you know, I believe lies. I

I it it things things happen real quickly, and then all of a sudden, you kinda find yourself where you're you're hiding things from people Mhmm. And you're hiding relationships from folks. And and I guess what what I thought was, as I was driving in, is that my my I think everybody's susceptible to that. Like, we're probably foolish to to look at the world and say, hey. You know, I couldn't those things couldn't happen to me. Yeah. You know, I'd like to think that, oh, hey. You know, I I wouldn't I would never do that. I would never cheat on my wife. But here's the thing. Like,

I could probably think of dark moments when my mind has gone places not in that particular area, but, like, like, certainly, but I I've I've recognized in my own mind places where I'm like, why am I even thinking that? I don't think that about this person or about the world or about Jesus or whatever. Right. And, like, there's there's some shadow in my mind. You know? Yeah. And so so I think it it probably is a risk that that all of us run, and that we're it's something that we need to be very, very careful with and careful to protect. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Absolutely. Would you does that sound true to you? Do you do think sometimes we get overconfident and say, hey. Look. I'm not susceptible to that sin and that's probably a big risk for us. Right? But that's why you gotta always keep God, you know, in every aspect of your life because, you know, you gotta constantly communicate with him. That's what make it, you know, it is beneficial for you to do that because, like, any moment of the day, you can slip. You know, like, just like that. You can be on point with it from morning to the afternoon and something happening, you know, like, your thoughts will change up. That's why God say, you know, control your thoughts or whatnot. Like, you can you can't control what come in, but you can control

what you continue to live in your mind, you know. So No. That's true. It's actually, we're just just reading through, Philippians four and it talks about, you know, whatever is honorable, whatever is just Yeah. You know, whatever is true, that kind of you know, think on those things. Like, what what are you putting into your mind and allowing to to soak in there? And it's kind of a hard deal because, like, a lot of especially the the society that we're in

Yeah. There's a lot of nasty stuff that can kinda soak in there. And the truth is is it, like, sometimes we dismiss what that how that can influence our lives, but it's it's it's something Paul was concerned about. He obviously said, look. This is a risk, man. You gotta make sure that if you're gonna think about something, make sure it's a true thing. Make sure it's an honorable thing, a just thing. Yep. You know? And so, and so, yeah, I guess, like, we gotta be be careful about that kind of thing. And, you know, you brought up a good point, which is we were talking a little bit about I say we like I was talking. But I was here with some spirit, bro. I was So a little bit about

the importance of having community around you. Right? Like, it's harder to hide things. Like, you're open and honest with people and you're willing to have guys around you that can call you on your stuff and say, look, what you're like, this has happened. Like, I've seen guys that I know that'll post something on Facebook. I'm like, something ain't right about this. Something's going on with that dude. Like, when you see things like that, like, you know, like like you said, we already had this conversation before. I I remember, like, one morning, and we was talking about spiritual attacks. Mhmm. Like, one thing I think is important as a Christian to know those symptoms, like, when when you when you are under attack. Sometimes we don't. Like, we just think, like, it's a thought that come through our head, but really, we are under a spiritual attack and, you know, you have to talk to your brothers. It's all about, like you said, building fences and having that circle around that'll comfort you and, you know,

uplift you when you're going through some things because, you know, like, that's the whole reason why God said, love your brother, you know, like, to be there for him. So Yeah. And and to the so so we talked about a little bit about the importance of community there, but, like, one of the things that you said was was gravely omitted here, which is constant communication with God. Right? Like, if you're praying, if you're otherwise interacting with Jesus, I kinda like, what I have in my mind is this thought of, like, just never letting go of the cloak of Jesus. Mhmm. Like, I mean and even even when I feel like I am just in the dirt about something and, like Yeah. I know I know I did the wrong thing or thought the wrong thing. I did it on purpose. Yeah. It occurred to me to not do it. I said, hey. This is not helpful and just and good, but I'm gonna think on it anyway. You know? Or I'm gonna do this anyway. I'm a say it anyway. Yeah. And, like, and, like, there's and that that rebellion

in your life, and I thought, oh, that's like, I just spit in God's face with this. Like, I I did. Like, I I've I've noticed that. There's been a shift in my life for the last five years. I don't do anything. I said this a little bit at the start of the show. I don't do anything unintentionally. Right. I don't find myself be like, oh, I accidentally sinned here. Mhmm. Mm-mm. That that is not how it's happening. Like, a lot like, how often it happens is cut way down. But if I'm doing it, it's because the Holy Spirit is kicking and dragging me to try to not do it. Mhmm. Like, that's what's going on, which is how every time every time I come back and I and I, something has occurred one way or the other, and I think I don't need to say, god, I need you to be be with me and help me not to do this because he was. Yeah. He was. I I can recall it. Ben, don't do that. You don't do that. Don't be thinking on that. The thing, bro. Like, that's what separate everything what man know and and everything that God know. Like, your conscience is everything. Like, your conscience is a bear witness to

everything that you do, everything that you think. Yeah. How do you know, like, how do you think that God know what you're doing every second of the day? It's your conscious, basically. Because it's like, your conscious just have all these thoughts or whatever and, you know, your conscious is not connected to your brain. So it's like, for one, like, lot of people gotta understand that, like, your conscious and your brain is two completely systems, basically. So it's like, the way they work, your conscious is how God keeps up with you, you know. So it's like,

you can't lie about your conscious to God, you know. Like, you can try to hide your feelings, but God knows exactly what's going on with your conscience, you know. So And and I think that's kind of the the the the point here. I got some questions about your biology, Nick Harris, but let's focus back on the talking to so if you're you're talking to God all the time though. Yeah. It it puts you in a position where like, you're just let it's not that you're not susceptible to those types of things. It's just that, like, you're just honest with him. Like, as soon as that thing shows up and say, Jesus, you saw that. Right? Because I saw that. I I didn't I need that to go. I need that to go. And and and the thing is is, like, you can either try to fight that on your own, but when you're open with Jesus and you're open with your community around you and, frankly, you're open with whoever you're plotting to sin against at any given time, like, that's actually the right fence. That's the right protection is to just be on with it. Yeah. Just be on out with it and live with some integrity.

And and then, like, it's chips stuff's gonna fall where they may. Like, we, anytime we think we're gonna protect something by keeping it in or by not sharing it or by by thinking that we can hide it, like, that's foolish. Like, we serve we serve an all like, a a creator god who knows everything. Like, let's stop acting so foolish in what we know about Jesus. Alright? Yeah. And so so, like like, yeah, that that that's true. Is that sometimes we that's one of the things perhaps that we struggle with in our prayer life is like, hey. What am I telling this stuff to god for? He already knows it. Here's the thing. It's like, you you don't stop talking to god. You're praying in without ceasing. You it keeps you out of a lot of problems. Yeah. It just keeps you out with you just don't have the same problems as someone who's like, oh, hey. Maybe I'm not gonna pray. And I here's the deal, guys. I've been there. I've been I've been at the end of a situation

where I know I chose the the the wrong thing. I chose me. I could have chosen God or chose me, and I chose me, and I knew it. Yeah. And and in in that moment, I'm like, I don't I don't wanna talk to Jesus right now. But think about it though, like like, when you go through those times, that's when Jesus is there the most. Like, you just gotta sometimes sit back, you know, be slow to anger, slow to speak, and quick to listen. Meaning, like, listen to what God got what he's trying to download in your mind at the moment. Yeah. Like, basically, like, you know, like, when you be going through those things, like, it'd be hard. So it's like, you don't really wanna irritate

anybody else because you on the edge already. So it's like, you gotta you gotta move a certain way and be silent and people would be like, man, you acting kinda weird, you know, like Yeah. Keep going about your day like that, but just listen for God, you know. Listen for the sand well, watch for the sands and listen to God as he's trying to give you the insight that you need to know at that moment. Well, and I think and I think that's that, like, that's yeah. I think that that the truth of it is is that at the times where I don't even wanna turn my face to God because I'm ashamed of myself. I'm ashamed of whatever it is I've done or thought or said or whatever. Like like, it is in that moment that your hand needs to extend and grab onto the robe. Yeah. I mean, hold on to the cloak of Jesus because and here here's the reason I I say that. Is is part of the part of the the post from from our friend, mister Webb over here, is he was kinda talking about about being ashamed. And I I've I've followed him a little bit, and

he struggled with staying in the church and I think a relationship with Jesus. And and the thing is is that, like, he said, I don't the very last part of the blog post here, I'll I'll read this again Okay. Was

I've said recently that my songs feel like my personal liturgy, things that I don't necessarily or always believe, but I show up to recite again and again in hopes of believing them. If I'm honest, most of the time, I don't believe the words in my songs. I have a hard time believing in a god that could make, let alone love a man who could do such things. So talk That's just the that's just, like, the devil here trick you, you know, because Yeah. Like, god loves the guilty. Like, if, like, if you actually read it, like, he'll tell you, like, he love the guilty. So it's, like, if you if you do something and you feel guilty, that's when he has stood in his hand to you, you know. So that's really the time to catch our blessing, basically, you know. So I mean, he said he came to heal the sick. Right? Yeah. So, like, identifying rightly as sick. But but here's the thing, it's, like, I do get I do get where he's coming from because the truth is is that, like, this this sense of shame and and separation from God first of all, it's the right understanding of sin. Mhmm.

But but it does it's such a weird circumstance because it it it, to a certain extent, captures a love for God that says, I've You heard him. I've heard him. Right? You feel bad. Right. You feel bad about hurting him and but see, that's the good that's what's good about that situation because through you feeling hurt about him, the more you wanna be like Jesus,

it's like, you'll be like, hold on. I just embarrassed myself and I disappointed the father, so I I gotta do better. Yeah. So that's when at that moment, that's when you transform into what you was supposed to do. You know, like, basically, enhance yourself, like, you get back on the right track or even better. Yeah. You know? Because it's like, the more guilty you feel and more sane, it's like, I I do the same thing. Some days, I wanna pull an atom and have behind the bus or something, you know, like and it's like, I know you see me, but Yeah. You know, but I I just gotta do better. And I'm going through the same thing myself, actually, you know. So it's like I'm trying to balance everything out with the communication and and the listening part, you So it's like, you gotta do a little bit of both and let God do his work. Yeah. And I I you know what's what's interesting is I I've seen guys kind of in this situation where people that

people that that fall away from the faith, right, fall away from Jesus, the catalyst to some of that like, I've seen it be someone who has done something very, very bad. Right? Like, world eyes, god's eyes, it's just not right. Like, whatever you did, you sucked. You screwed it up big time. Right? Yeah. And, generally, the barrier

is one of two things. It is a it is such a deep shame for having treated so poorly someone that you love Mhmm. And you don't know how to reconcile that, which and you can't. Right. And the second thing is is that, like, it becomes so difficult to believe how much God loves you. Like, it's it is it's it's so weird. It is the mercy of God that becomes the hardest to believe with how hard you are on yourself. And here's the thing. I'm not saying that you don't need to properly recognize

the extent of your sin, the damage that it causes, the separation from God. Yeah. Yeah. It hurts bad. But but but here's the thing. It is through that though that we understand what Christ has actually done. Right? To because, like, it is it is flat out unbelievable.

It is not believable that someone could love us to that extent that they would suffer and die for a man who who would choose something so temporary, something so foolish and spit in God's eye in the process and then be able to come back and say, I'm sorry. And he says, I give you mercy.

Yeah. It's and it's you know what? It it becomes something that we cannot digest because we are so far from that for that mercy in our own lives, not only for other people, often for ourselves. We cannot believe it coming from a from a god who who has the ability and the right sight to be just. Justice. And he looks at this and says, your forgiveness is justice because because of what Christ has done. And so, like, like, the the this guy had done an interview, and, he his his answers,

maybe I'll find a link so you guys can listen to it. I'm not gonna go into it. And I hate talking about the guy in the third person. I mean, we're not friends or anything. We don't know each other. I just happened to listen to his music, and I thought the story was interesting. And I thought I I and I really, the some of the stuff he said in the blog post was just impactful to me. Mhmm. But, like, I I just I I his answers, leads you to think that, like I mean, he's it's questionable whether he still followed Jesus.

But, you know, like, is like, you can come across a crossroad like that, but, you know, at that moment, you gotta think about everything his mercy that he did on you. You know, like, it's hard to not see the signs when you upset, you know, like Yeah. That he already did to you, so did for you, I mean. But at the same time, I I just had the same a similar not the part about I don't believe Jesus, but I was just going through a rough time yesterday. So I was just basically thinking to a head worrying about the future. So it's like I had to talk with God. Like, I just talk with God anytime of the day, you know, I could just walk him from the store. So I'm talking to him like, okay, if you're not mad at me then make it rain. Then I'm like, no, I ain't gonna ask you that. I had thought it. I thought it. Because I know anything you ask him, he'll do it for you. Right? So I I thought it, but I didn't see it. Uh-huh. Then I told him, like,

no, I don't I then I I then wanted to rain, but I said, like, make it thunder. Like, okay. No. I'm not gonna ask for that neither. Uh-huh. So I get home. Right? Like, my headphones, it didn't work for, like, over a week. Uh-huh. And I was watching something like scriptures and, you know, things of that sort. Yeah. So I'm like, god, if, if you listening right now and, you know, like,

make the other headphone work for work, basically, you know, to let me know, like, it's you, basically. I mean, like, you gotta ask them to do something, like, basically, to let you know. But it's like and guess what happened, bro? Like, I I swear, like, it was the craziest thing. I'm I'm set up because my phone was gonna die. Yeah. I plugged it in the charger, and, like, I got close to the TV. And then next thing I know, like, I had both headphones on,

and then I just started talking loud, like, hey, turn that down. You know, like, I'm thinking it's the TV that because, you know, I got a a smart TV. Yeah. Right. So I'm thinking my Bluetooth connected to the TV, but actually, it was my second headphone, my right headphone had came on. Oh. So I'm like, okay, that's the first sign. Right? And then not only did he sell me that sign, he guided me to something, like, basically,

what I was worried about. Right? Yeah. Like because before I even went to the store, I had a conversation, with my mom, like, like, basically, like, you know, like, she was just saying, like, you gotta worry about she was saying, like, don't worry about the future, you know, like, you gotta think about today, like, you know, today got his own worries or whatnot. Right. So, okay, fast forward.

It's just so crazy because he just worked, like, in mysterious ways. So the headphones come on. Yeah. The first sound. I get guided to something the answer to my question that I needed. You know, like, that I was asking him about and, you know Yeah. He gave me the answer to my my question, basically. And then not only that, guess what came on? Like, you know, I'll be I got the little app on my phone about the scriptures or whatnot. Yeah.

And guess what it said? What what was that? Trouble is enough. So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today. At the very root of worry is fear.

Fear of the unknowns or what ifs can erode away the security we find in God. Don't let this fear overtake and allow the worry to creep in your thoughts. Place your conf confidence in Jesus that he will provide and comfort you, then pray. So it's like exactly what me and my mom was talking about Uh-huh. The third sign, you know, like, and he just kept like, he a show off, man. Like, you know, like, when you ask him and you believe in it, man, he get the showing off, bro. So it's like, that's that's the mercy that I love and, you know, I always wanna feel every day, you know, like, because I just before that, I was feeling down, like, exactly what you're explaining. Yep. That's why I was running up here, like, I gotta make it up here, like, you know, I'm late and I know he up here on fire up here with for Jesus, so, you know, like, but Interesting.

Now now now, Nick, here's actually I I I don't know if think I've asked you this before. So I probably know a good number of guys who would hear you tell that story and be like, I don't know if God does that. Yeah. You're right. But it's like, it's through signs. Like like, God can't come to you, like, and with a voice because, you know, like, you can get deceived by I don't even wanna say his name, but the other guy, you know. So But so he come to you through signs. Like, when you ask some things, you believe in it, have your your heart open, you

you basically do the things that, you know, make them happy, and you just wait for the science. Sit back and watch the clock, you know. And when you do that, you don't take your eye off the clock. Like, everything is suspicious now. Because it's like, I can't go out my understanding. Like, when I'm thinking about God, I can't use my own logic or what I'm used to. So anything that I see is on the radar. Everything is on the radar. Yeah. Oh, what's that? Oh, I'm I'm looking at every sign. I'm looking at every sign, you know. So, don't don't let the world deceive you and make you think like everything is a coincidence because it's really not. Sometimes it's God buzzing you or he's guiding you to do something or, you know, he's helping you out of a situation that you don't even know you're in, you know. So you just gotta always pray when you communicate with him, that's when you look for the signs. You know, you just can't pray for it and then forget you pray for it. Yeah. And then be like, oh, he ain't give it to me, so it ain't gonna happen. Like, when you pray for it, you gotta keep it on your man, your heart, do the things that'll make him happy,

and he'll bless you for it. You know? So you just gotta keep your heart open. If my man is closed and my heart is not open, then how can I receive a blessing? Like, that's the same thing. Like, it makes me mad that Jesus was actually here and people didn't respect the things that he did or even give him gratitude show him gratitude for the things that he did. Like, these guys is seeing him do the things that he is known for doing. Yeah. And that's blessing people. Right. But yet, they turn him down. And guess what? Like, it's even worse because the people where he's from, they didn't even receive the most miracles. Like, if I live next door to Jesus, I would have been in his house every day, like, hey, what's where are you going? Like, you know, like, I'm just not gonna let you just leave my side. Even if you say, like, you're not ready to be one of the disciples. I'm watching from a distance, like

just tell me when. Yeah. I'll be 40 feet back. Yep. Like, this guy keep following us. So, man, let him come. 13. Well, that's yeah. I mean, you gotta just always keep a a positive man and a and a and a clear heart. Well, a clear heart and a positive man, basically, you know. So he always saw signs. You just gotta look. Yeah. You know, we call them coincidences nowadays.

Like, I asked for something and then it happened. It's like, oh, that's a coincidence. What's the odds of that happening? You know, like, well, instead of saying, thank you, Jesus. I know that was you. Right. You know, I just give him his credit every time it's due, big or small, because I know it's his mercy that, even woke up today. So, I mean, I gotta give him all the glory and all the praise. So Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose, right. We to to from our nature of coincidences,

it's like we just wanna we it's a reasonable thought. That's what reasonable people think. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. You know, god, you know, he he doesn't either deal on that level or Yeah. He doesn't really care about that particular thing, or he doesn't do that kind of thing anymore. Like, he suddenly lost the ability to do it. We're pretty reasonable. I was like, oh, yeah. It's just a coincidence, which, interestingly enough, that's the prime argument for how the world's created without God is coincidence. Yeah. So, I that that's interesting. I've not had those experiences, Nick Harris. But, but here's the deal. Let's try it. I'm not necessarily but I'm not a guy that says God can't do what he wants. So I'm a put that in the I don't know column. Yeah. Look. This is what I'm look. Sometimes I'm not saying test guy, but Yeah. You gotta that's how you build your relationship up with him. You know, you talk to him and have conversations with him that's not praying. Like, you don't always have to, you know, be on your knees when you're talking to god, like, even though I won't I I don't want anybody to feel offended or anything like that, but, like, you just,

like, the way I talk to him, I I pray I do get on my knees and pray. Sure. But, like, if I'm on the go outside, I gotta be in full communication with him. Like, if I'm walking down the street, I don't care if somebody's looking at me talking to myself with no headphones. Yeah. Because I'm not talking to myself. Like, I'm actually talking to the most hassle. It's like, my relationship with them, I always communicate. So every day is like somebody right next to me. I could be by myself, and I can just be, you know, like, god,

you know, just look out for me and make sure you you guide me or whatnot and show me what you want me to do. Show me the signs which way what should I do? Like, depending on the situation, whatever I'm about to do, that's what I talk to him about, and that's what he has shown me the signs. Like, you know, it's sort of like having a balls with you all day. You know? Like Yeah. Hey, balls. What do you want me to do? You know, you need some help over there? You are. You know? So it's like, I have no problem with doing that. Yeah. So it's like when you like I said, bro, it's it's it's so easy, bro. Like, you just have talk to him, have little talks with him that only you would know. No. No. This is the way I really do it because I like when people do this. Yeah. So just try it, like,

you gotta have a second person, you know, like, God always say you gotta have another witness, you know, like, even though your conscience is gonna bear witness, that's between you and your conscience. Yeah. But it's you have to have a physical, you know, that way, like, say you and Mike. You and Mike talk to God at the same time, ask him ask him to do something, and wait on him to do it, and that way, you and Mike be a witness to exactly what God You know? You know, like, I I've done that multiple times actually where we have, and it wasn't asking it was asking for an answer to something. Yeah. Whereas to say, look, I don't wanna I'm I'm more interested in what God is really wants done here. And so I have two two different people pray on it. Yeah. And then I'll be talking to each other, and they come back and we say, look. What do you think? What's God telling you? Because

I would assume God would say the same thing to multiple parties. And so, like, anytime I've had a couple big decisions in life, and and that felt like the I've just got guys that I otherwise trust to to to pray on that who'll be faithful in praying on that. Yeah. And that's and that's worked, to make sure that, like, it's not something that I'm kind of feeding into it because I want a particular outcome or whatever. It's, you know, if we all praying on it, what are we what are we hearing back from God? And then we'll go from there. Yeah. And that's how it works, bro. Like, that's it it works like that with every situation, though. Like, that's what I mean. Like, not just big decision. Like, it worked with god. Which

way should I go? Like, which restaurant should I go to today? Because he can guide you just you asking what what should I eat for lunch. Do you think to a whole blessing, bro. Are saying that are you sure the Lord cares what you have for lunch? I'm definitely. Oh, he definitely well, definitely cares. Definitely. Okay. Okay. That's the most important thing that us humans can do is eating. Like, when you eat, people dance and be in the kitchen, dancing, cooking. So it's like, I mean, that's the most important thing in life is eating. Like, I mean, when you think about it, okay, like, why are we here to to take care of the creatures of the land and grow food? It's us that make things technical. It's us that make things critical. Like, we we add on to what God already did and he don't need anything, took in the way or added on. Like, that's why technology the people that the the the old ancient guys, like, they doing the same thing without the technology that we have today. Yeah. You know, so, like, it's it's people that make things complicated.

It's real simple. Like, that's why the bible, like, is like a story. Like, you know, it's like a a a bedtime story. Like, you know, it's it's soft and sweet, but yet it can get nightmares if you when when your conscience get convicted when god Uh-huh. When you hear his words, you you either run from God or you run towards him or you run from him when you hear it. Either way, you're gonna do one of the other two. So Yeah. It's like, man, you it's no running away from God, but at the same time, you just gotta let him work, you know. No. No. I here's the here's the deal. Maybe you listen right now, and you think to yourself, I don't know about this thing that Nick Harris is saying. But I tell you what,

he's the only guy that I've ever met that I really believe prays without ceasing, for the most part. So, I mean, until you'd be trying that stuff, I think you may maybe maybe put some of that stuff back on the table there, bro. Yeah. Just something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, this what I mean. Like, take it in, but do it with two people. You need two people. You need a witness because you can't. You will sound just like me. Like, I don't have a witness right here. So that's why this situation could've went better if I had No. That's somebody else with me that that knows exactly what I mean. And that's that's why God say that it's better to have two people when you do Yeah. I mean, and here's the thing. It's not it had it doesn't have much to do with you personally, Nick. It's a Yeah. I think it's just a theological belief that says, you know, God gave us a Bible. See, that's that should be sufficient to otherwise guide our life.

Is he really all that invested in some of the things that you're talking about Oh, definitely. Level of minutiae. And the truth is is that, like, I I actually can't speak too much because for the most part, I probably fell into that camp, which says, I'm not sure that he cares really. And so I see. Look. I don't be throwing it out. But look. Look. Think it is though, Ben. Everything is created by God for God. So it don't matter if it's the TV. You can't just you can't just say, God didn't create the TV. God created the man that created the TV. So he can interact through any device, any system, any any places. No place in the world he can't reach you. You know? So you just gotta when you think about god, think about mighty.

Don't use your own understanding because it's this world is a spiritual world. Like, it's physical, but it's more spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. You know? So when you think about these things and you understand that, you understand, like, god working in ways that go way past, like, he really do care like the little things. That's what he wants you to do. That's true. Cares about the birds of the air. See, dang it. Yeah. We all are stupid rationality. I don't know. I don't know what to do with life. I'm gonna have to put the here's the deal. My first reaction, Nick Harris, will be like, wanna put the think on it. Maybe that's not even the right reaction. I'm a put the think on it. I don't know. Alright. Hey. You listen to life from the path. Me and Nick Harris hanging out here.

Boy, that took a turn for the better. I'm glad Nick showed up and rescued the show. Was starting to be a dreary Benfest. It's okay, man. I miss you, man. I miss you. Yeah. I know, brother. I'm I'm glad that you're here. Really good. It amps up the joint. So hold on. What what else do I have going on around here? So there's Yeah. No. We can do this all night if you want. What? You know? Hey. Actually, we made some progress here. We can we do a couple advices, and then and then we'll be out here. Okay. Sweet. What what what do we got? Oh oh my. Here we go. Dear life from the path. Oh, okay. I have a seven year old son who seems to be growing up faster than I would like at times. With today's music, video games, TV, and movies, there are some things regarding sex I can't prevent him from seeing or learning if I haven't screened the contents. I realized my son knows more than I would like for a child his age to know. Because of this, my husband thinks it's time to have the birds and the bees talk. I'm not ready to have that talk, and I don't believe my son is at an age to have this talk either. My husband is a psych major who never fails to remind me how knowledgeable he thinks he is as he tries to convince me that our son is ready. Okay. I know that one day my son will be curious about his body, but is now that time? Am I wrong in thinking he's too young?

Wait. Seven? What do you think, Nick Harris? I mean, mom mom's gonna be mom. She's gonna protect her baby and whatnot. But, you know, dad, he probably looking at it like, you know, that's around the time when you start going to school because I know my daughter is, like, seven right now. So she's, like, in first grade. And, yeah, it can be tough with the kids. You know? Like, you gotta let them know about what's going on out in the world, but in a kid way. You know? It's all about how you present it rather than what you're talking about. Yeah. You know? Because you can

he can be aware on what's going on, but he don't have to give in to what's going on around him based on he see the good role models at at home. Yeah. You know? Because, like, no matter what, that's what made god so so so good because when you grow your kids up to know about god and learn about god, no matter what happens in the world, no matter what foolish they do in the world, they always come back to god. I'm a plain example. You know, like, I did all type of crazy stuff and, you know, like, went the wrong path and, you know, God like, once you really forgot, can't nothing snatch you away from God. You know? So you just pray on it, you know, ask god what you should do. But, basically, like, you probably do need to have that talk with him because, like, when you go to school, it's peep kids at school that's don't have the same morals as you. So Right. Know, like, you don't want them to learn from school from somebody at school because they can come home and not tell you what's going on. Like, you know, like, you gotta they gotta hear it from you first as a parent. So it's not what you say is how you say it.

Well, I well, I don't know. Some of it might be what you say. No. I mean, yeah, it's it's what you say. You definitely gotta watch what you say, but, you know, you gotta present it to them because, like, seven is too close to ten. Ten, too close to thirteen. Thirteen too close to sixty. See I what you're getting at. Yeah. So Time goes by fast, bro. Like, first grade, and before you know it Yeah. Here's the I would agree. That stuff that stuff comes up fast. Yeah. And I think

don't know. I'm probably I probably overdo it. Like, I'm I'm generally willing to expose my kids to things to have so that I can have conversations with them. Like like, I there's not I just don't shelter them from a lot of different things. Like, I don't mean Yeah. Let me put this differently. I don't intentionally expose them to, like, I don't know, a making out scene on the TV or something. That's not what I'm talking about. But what I'm saying is is that, like,

even even when they were younger, like, there's just not a lot of things that I won't talk about. It just depends on how you're gonna say it. Like, for for example, we were talking about we we were in in church over the last probably last month, the story of we're talking about the story of Joseph, and we do everybody's adults and kids are in the same room. Right? Okay. And so, like, you you run into this story with Joseph and Potiphar and Potiphar's wife. And Potiphar's wife, like, way the Bible describes it, like, is gonna bring up questions because we've got kids that are sitting there that are range range from, like, six months to, you know, 16.

Mhmm. You know? And so, you you know, reasonably, the four year old and the six year old and the nine year old, everybody's got gonna have questions about this. And so Right. Like, I'm not gonna skip that story because it's a there's there's a relevance to it. But, like, the way I explained adultery was is that Potiphar's wife was trying to treat Joseph as her husband when he wasn't her husband. Right. K? Because there's a number of things that bake into that. There's there's sexual things that bake into that, which frankly, the older people, like adults and the older kids are gonna know that already. Yeah. And the truth is is that, frankly, I think that's a better working definition of our understanding of adultery anyway. Are you interacting with someone and treating them as your spouse or, in ways that you would only supposed to treat your spouse, are you treating them? And, you know, maybe that's holding hands in the movie theater or sharing secrets that don't belong to them. Like, whatever it is, I think that's fine to classify as something that you shouldn't be up to. Right. And so,

you know, what's one of the things I've talked about with my kids? And I I remember one being, like, five and seven. It's about seven, and we were talking about a similar story. And I said, look. You know? When you're married to someone, you only get you're married to that one person. You don't get to treat other people as if you're married to them. That that's with, and that includes, how you touch each other, like, you don't be hugging, you know, hugging and kissing and things and that's not your if if you're not married to that person, then, that's not something that you get to do. Now here's the thing is that, like, that distinction will start to evolve Yeah. And that amount of detail that is necessary or that they're, inquisitive about will change as they get older. But, like, there just isn't very much that I can't,

that I can't say. What was the else I was trying to describe to the kids? This is to teach and try trying to teach bible in a group where it's where the kids and adults are in the same room is tricky. Oh, circumcision. Good night, Nick Harris. Right. Four and five year olds in there. I'm like, well Right. Here's what they've done. I think I liken it to an ear piercing except for on a man's penis. You know? So, look, they're they're cut and skin. Right. But here's the thing. It's like, don't you know, they they they think that's odd.

But, like, if I don't load a bunch of mystery into it, then they don't start trying to solve mysteries outside of that. They know I'm gonna tell them. Like, I'll you ask me a question. I'll give you an answer Right. To the extent that that the detail frankly, if you keep asking detailed questions, I'll keep providing you detailed answers. Yeah. Because, like, I'm not exposing you to something so that you may think dirty or wrong things. Mhmm. I'm telling you what I'm telling you true things. Right. And I I believe that truth is helpful. So, like, I get that that's difficult. I get that you might think that, hey, if I introduce this concept to my poisoning poisoning their their mind, mind, I mean, yeah, if you start showing them pornography to try to teach them as a seven year old, that's gonna be a mistake. But, like, if you're otherwise introducing that people have special relationships, that those are supposed to be happening within marriage,

that, some of the things that they might come across on TV or a magazine, like, hey, some some images don't belong to them, like anybody who don't have any clothes on. That doesn't that's not for them. Right? That, like, that's not that you don't have to go in full on how do how do peep how are birds and bees made. All we're saying is is that, like, know the things that they might be exposed to,

head them off at the past and say, look. That stuff's not for you. You see someone looking at that? That's you know, don't do that. Right. And then come to me with questions so that when they run into things that they're they have questions about or when they start to feel a certain way about somebody or whatever it is, that they come to you and they trust that you're gonna tell them as opposed to, like, shielding them and hiding them so they gotta get it elsewhere. I think that's beneficial. And, again, I've been accused of overdoing it. So, like, I'll grant that I might be on the on the extreme side of this thing, but, like, you know, I just You just wanna be the you wanna be the messenger. Yeah. I'd rather just tell I'd rather just tell them and and give them the right way to think about things Mhmm. So that as they grow up, they can they have the context to digest things that I obviously can't touch everything. Right? Like Right. Some yahoo's gonna come talking to him or trying to show him some sort of circumstance that we haven't discussed because it's gross or something. Mhmm. And, like, they just need a framework to work from. Be like, you know what? That sounds like a way people treat spouses, and we ain't married. So you know what? Frederick, I don't think so. Right. We ain't doing that stuff. So yeah. Yeah. So I think that's yeah. Me and Nick Harris are both in with you just need to talk to him. Let's see what Secular says.

I don't know your son, how much adult material he has been exposed to, or how mature he is for his age, but I believe the birds and bees talk should be an ongoing dialogue rather than one speech. Agreed. Mhmm. Children should know the correct terms for their body parts and what private means so they can communicate effectively. I don't think it's harmful for children to know where puppies, kittens, and baby birds come from. In another conversation, they should know what pregnant means. Your son should also know that if he has any questions, he can come to you and his father and get straight answers. The question, how does the baby get there, will probably come in another year or two. And when it is asked, he should be answered in a straightforward manner. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. You gotta tell that stuff. Alright. Here we go. Let's do this last one. Dear life from the path. It has been two years, and I haven't been able to get over my first love. I just graduated from high school, and I'll soon be 18. I still can't get used to the idea that he's gone. When we broke up, he made me feel like dirt. We had been a couple since my freshman year and he dumped me at the beginning of my junior year because I didn't want to give him my virginity. Oh, boy. Later, I discovered he had been cheating on me with my best friend. Please help. It sound like you dodged the bullet. Yeah. Right on, man. You know? Thank god for that, you know, because that guy wasn't good for you. God forbid that he got you pregnant, you know, if things turned another way, you know, so you don't wanna make long relationships with people that should be only short term. So I think god bless you that time and, you know, just try your just pray

that, you know, god just take that guy off your mind for the moment. You know? Because, I mean, of course, we do got people that, you know, things that we attached to that we shouldn't. So it just don't seem like he was right for you from the start. So Yeah. No. No. I agree. And, like, I've noticed this, this is not to denigrate that circumstance, but, like, I've noticed this a lot in my kids too, is that, like, I have a lot of I got a house for girls, Nick Harris, ladies everywhere. Right? It's testosterone,

me, and then everybody else, estrogen factory. Right. But, like, they spend a lot of time being upset about things that, like, were that aren't, like, true things. Mhmm. Like, they're not real thing. Like, like, in this example, she's, like, it was my my my first love. Like, if she has this impression that, hey, you know, we were gonna be together forever, and I'm real disappointed, but, like, no, you're not. Like, you that would that was the lie. Like, the truth has been revealed to you, and you're holding on to the emotional highness of a false thing. Right. Like, you you weren't ever going to spend eternity with him. That was the wrong thing. You are you are blessed to have been corrected. Right. And I was just trying to think of my kids' example. So, like, they'll be like, oh oh, you may maybe one of them comes home and is like, hey. You know, I I was gonna play the iPad. I thought I'd be able to play the iPad. I'm like, no. We were never gonna allow that. And they're, like, really upset about it. I'm like, I don't know what you're upset about, man. Like, you thought of something that was actually never true at all, and then you're upset that it wasn't true. Like, that's not my fault, man. You gotta stop believing wrong things. Yeah. You know, you know, solve that. You start asking questions. Yeah. That that's how you solve those types of things. But, like, you know, I got ladies in the house, and they're constantly upset about something

that that wasn't true to begin with. Yeah. But they had it in their mind that was true. And so I get I get where she's coming from, and that is very difficult to deal with. The guy's obviously done you wrong, and it stinks to be treated that way. Yeah. Like, that's that sucks when people treat you like that. But, like, the reality is and we have to deal with true things. It's how the world actually works. Mhmm. As we look at look at your circumstance and say, look, I I missed this man, but, like, I shouldn't because he doesn't miss me. And and I don't wanna marry a guy who would, a, break up with me because I wouldn't give he give my virginity to him. And because he wasn't getting what he wanted out of me, he took it from another girl who he wasn't committed to at the time, my best friend to boot. You I Nick Harris is dead on. You dodged the bullet here. Yeah. And and I'm sorry that you feel the way that you feel, but, like, we might as well deal in some true things and, like, truthfully,

this guy wasn't for you. Yep. He knows that because he took steps to prove it. You now know that because of his reaction. It's been what'd she say? It's been two years since then? How old is she though? I just graduated from high school, and I'll soon be 18. I still can't use so she broke. Oh, yes. She's still young. So you you still got time to grow, baby. Don't don't worry about that. Yeah. You still got time to grow. You you will meet somebody that really care about you and understand that patience is virtue, and, you know, you don't that's not something to jump into, you know. So Yeah. Just stay patient, and God will bless you. And and that's I suppose that's the things. Like, this isn't just people saying things like that to you to make you feel good or to ease your pain. Like, that is the truth. That is the dead truth. Like, anything that isn't that is is not is a is a falsity. Anything that says, oh, you know what? Maybe you'll get to back together. Maybe you should get back together. Oh, you really missed out. Like, none of that stuff is even close to true. No. It's not true.

And and, right, like, that's that stinks that your junior and senior year were tainted, by some turd washer who who treats you like junk. I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry, but, like, yeah, don't don't let another second go by wasting it thinking about that guy. Yeah. The reality is is that you were never gonna be together forever. He just knew that before you did. Yeah. Yeah. Secular says, why did you allow him to make you feel like dirt? Be glad you didn't have sex with him. If you had, he probably would have cheated on you anyway. You have your whole life ahead of you. Please don't waste one more second of it looking over your shoulder. Hey, Ladd. You said. That's right. And pining for someone who would punish you for hanging on to your values. You did the right thing, and you should have no regrets. None at all. Yeah. Yeah. I I yeah. I agree, man. That's a yeah.

Totally. Yeah. I I boy, I really one two. Yeah. I just I I hate I hate the thought that you you've got had to go through that. That's a real bummer. Alright. Hey. You've been listening to Live From The Past. I thank you for hanging out with us, tonight. Hey. Hey. You know what? Actually going on last week. What you got going on? Oh, hey. Hey. That's a good that's a good thought, actually, Nick Harris. So, we do have a guest in next week.

They, I think it's it's for it's a a guy that runs a an organization that helps Haiti. They just opened a thrift store here in Grimes, and I was in there. And they just got a lot of cool things going on in there. So I'm really interested, to talk to him and to see how the thrift store stuff's going. They do like a froyo. They they travel back and forth to Haiti. And he can give us an update on how, how Haiti's doing after her that Matthew had gone through there, what it's like to rebuild in that country that was frankly in the process of building anyway. And so

and and and see what the god's doing. He said he's got some pretty cool gospel stories from Haiti too. So we'll catch up with that next week. And then the week after, Chris Akers is gonna be in. His new album's out, I think, this week. He's he's we're waiting to confirm that. Go hook up with him on Facebook. Look for Chris Akers' music or Christopher Akers, and, you can get the updates on that. But, like, he's got a new album out, we're gonna have him in and hear some tunes from him and see what's going on in his life. So lots of cool stuff going on. Yeah. Oh, hey. I don't know what I was gonna say. Hey. So for those guys that do listen to the show, like, I I was on the fence, really. I was gonna cancel the show, really, because I because everyone else is gonna be gone. So, you know, may maybe if you wanna hit me up with some feedback, and usually, I'll just dismiss it whether you say good or bad. But I'm actually pretty interested as to whether this is worth your time. It definitely is. It definitely Well, Nick Harris, you say that because you showed up. Maybe me maybe the me and Nick Harris portion.

But but just shoot me an email, maybe. Info with life in the path dot org. Hook us up hook up us on Twitter, Facebook, whatever. Just let me If it sucks, that's okay. Just say that, and, then I'll know better, and I'll cancel the thing next time if it's just me sitting here by myself. But if this had any value to you whatsoever, let me let me know that too, and then we can figure out the right way to handle that going forward. Alright. We will see you next week. In the meantime, please be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.