Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path. Alright. You're listening live for the Path. We're coming from the Pathway Studios. Here at Johnston Proper. You know, we could could we do this show remotely in case the COVID took everybody? I assume. If we had if we had whatever shelter in place? We could. We in fact, we should do p everybody's having to do that thing. We should do a disaster recovery

test. Check this in the office right now. Ted's Ted's gonna hightail it somewhere else. What's a disaster recovery test? Yeah. To make sure that, like, in the in a lot of businesses set it up, so, like, if a disaster were to occur, they've got alternative call centers and infrastructure set up somewhere where the disaster wasn't so that so that, you know, the the operations can be moved over there until the disaster passes at the prime location. And so, obviously, you don't just set that up and hope it works. You do disaster recovery testing once a quarter or whatever to make sure that in the case of a disaster, you could just flop it over. Oh. So, like, our stuff is in India or The Philippines or something. And so, like, once a quarter, we like full shutdown of something overnight and see if we just transferred our full infrastructure over there. Did it work? So that, know, you don't cut get caught with your knee high socks in in the title. See how I tried to cut you off there. Yeah. Anyway That's great. Yep. Yep. I'm disappointed in ten years we've not done that here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've yet to come across a disaster.

Okay. We should be prepared for not prepared. That's my point. I think yeah. We've had ten years to get prepared. We're not. Right? That's true. Okay. We can give it a shot. Hey. You're listening to Live From The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us. I I hey. Here's a good stat for the week, boys. In light of all that's going on with the COVID and and people are are are stuck at home and they're having to pass their time, the podcast numbers are not up. Oh, who? They're stay they're exactly the same. The YouTube numbers are not up. Yeah. Yeah. In the presence so so here's the go here's the deal. The people that are digging on the show are people that always dig on the show. We do not produce stragglers or interested people. Yeah. They don't say, hey. I'm interested. I might take a glance at that. Actually, it concerned me after everyone hit the face. Their people were were Facebook streaming and TikTok and or whatever all week, like, their own personal stuff. Yeah. And I thought, what what kind of what kind of chance do we have in a world like this? Yeah. Right? If everybody's out producing content, us old dogs who were ignored when we were the only game in town, I mean, we just got Putting forth quality content. Yeah. I mean, we got we got no chance. I mean, there's dudes out there with one guitar

and his three year old daughter on the on the screen, and they're outgutting us for numbers. Yep. Yep. They got nothing. Do do you think some of these people will be embarrassed later, or is it just cool? Because I the whole time, I'm thinking, I'm kind of embarrassed for, like, most of the church right now. Oh, yeah. What happens in twenty years when someone's running for president and they pull up their original TikTok profile? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that scares me. I mean, what happens in, like, three weeks when the virus is over and everybody's like, can you believe all the crap people put out? Yeah. Yeah. Here's like, no. I'm oh, here here's some here's my here's what I'm doing. We might have failed this disaster thing. Yeah. Here's what's here's what's super it's super hard. And maybe maybe this is advice, maybe it's not. So what's what's what is appreciated in times like this, and this is this is always true for the church guys, is that, like, when you're earnestly trying your best

in the situation that you're in, people appreciate that. Yeah. If you try to bat above your league, like, know you're not capable of pulling something off well and you attempt to do it anyway, and everybody knows you're not pulling it off well except for you or you're trying to fake it, you look silly. Yeah. Have you seen some of the bloopers going around? It's really hilarious. Like, people who didn't know, like, the thing was over or whatever. Kinda kinda like the Biden Biden thing, but there's, like, a lot of preachers that have done stuff that, like, they're, like, is this on? Yeah. You're you're actually on. Streaming live right now. Is everyone looking at me? Yeah. Is maybe. Just my circle. I Yeah. See things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just gotta be, you know, you just gotta be honest with what you're where you're at.

And and to the extent that we try to bet and and, like, if it's temporary and you know that, then fine. Like, the the the webcam at the guy's kitchen table is okay. As long as everyone is admitting that this is the thing and we're we're not gonna we're not gonna buy a bunch of equipment and try to upgrade our situation, this is just what it is. If you have other reasons and you're able to do something good, you should do it well. But past that, like, people can smell fake. It it it's kinda interesting that that this put all all the all the churches out there, like, on the same level. Mega churches were were were, like, blanking out on Facebook, and and so were the the church of of 50 that, like, hey. We got ourselves a cam. Right. You know, because everybody was doing it and Facebook couldn't handle it, know, and and YouTube and everything. And so I thought that was just kinda interesting. Don't know what I thought. I just thought that maybe funny, maybe interesting. It it is serving as a pretty as a pretty across the board equalizer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Just like we're all in the same boat here. Yeah. I did think it was a little weird like for a lot most

people did it so I shouldn't, you know, but but to pretend like it's real. I thought that was weird. Oh, right. Bringing all the singers and the band and get all the lights going, they're like, it's like, how about we just face hey, hey, this is where we're at. We're all hunkered down. Let's pretend we're hunkered down. Wait, we are. Right. I mean, even for even for like a pretty high-tech modern worship set, right, like, you ever been to a concert and you're like, yeah, that was awesome, and then you watch like the video on your phone later and you're like, I mean Yeah. It wasn't as cool. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, it ain't gonna do it no justice. Like, there's a thing about being in a room with x number of people and the energy, you can feel the energy rising and like, when you're on your couch in your Scooby Doos, you ain't gonna feel that. Right? That you're fooling yourself. I'm I'm like way minority in that thought but Well, I so I I think it's one of the I was I was thinking about it this week is that one of the things that I think the wrong marker from a church perspective

is to feel like you're is now you're a content producer. Hey. Our job on Sunday morning is to otherwise produce really great content on the line of, hey. Everyone watches the Matt Chandler sermon for the village Church or everyone's know? Because here's the thing, is that, like, when it comes down to it, there's there's there's guys that are way better at preaching than I am. Right? And so if it's simply just gonna be a contest between who preaches better, you don't I don't need to even go. I'll just say, look. Just watch this fella. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not that. And and I think the same thing with the music. Like, there's some people where, like, that's their natural deal. They can pull off a a 20 piece band with people in the audience not in the audience, and it will and it's it's it's made for broadcast. It's that is a content push. That's different than than if you're not if your church isn't set up to do that and you try to do that, then again, you're saying, let let's just let's do battle of the musicians here. And again, I there's people that are better. You'll find better. I I think there is there remains something unique in the church that, like, are there better are there better pastors? Yep. Better worship musicians? Yep. More enthusiastic crowds, better set design, better lighting design, better equipment? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But it's your local church. And I think that matters.

I think it matters that it's your local gathering. I think it matters that it's the person that teaches you or the group of people that teach you. I think it matters that it's your worship musician. Mhmm. And I I I boy, I like, I'm I'm I'm short on tangibles to show you on my hand and say, know that this makes a difference, but I I I feel in my bones that it does. And so people will watch the the low tech option coming from their 50 person church. We did we we we're a house church. We've got 35, 40. Most are kids. We tried to stream for people who couldn't leave their place, and they could have watched anything else, but they watched ours. It was Right. Low rent, and it was wide shot in a in a living room, but it was us. You're right. That that's where it works. Yes. Yeah. We we we encourage a lot of commenting and everything, and people are talking about what color their socks were or whatever. That that wouldn't go in the mass market. I mean, nobody does. That's right. The person in Illinois doesn't care what color their socks That's right. Joe has on. But we had some fun with it. Yep. And and yeah. And then that that's cool. It's it's like you're doing community, it just happens to be anybody out there could see it, you know, if they they

stumble upon it somehow. Well, and you'd rather have them walk into a community than a content push. Yeah. Because and that's the risk, like, for so that that was kind of the heads up to churches. If you're on the other side of this thing, you're gonna have access to a lot of different things. I'm always for taking in as much as you can, but just recognize that that, at least for my opinion, there is something, that remains unique about your local church body, your specific community, and don't make it a content war. Yeah. Because your local church shouldn't be fighting a content war for the masses. They should be looking to serve you in the best way possible, and it's okay if they do it awesomely with their technology. But, like, that is their focus. And when it becomes a content push, I think we we don't think about the local church correctly. And I think it's just it's just it's it's not it's not a risk to listen to other things. I think you should.

Just just be careful on on how we start comparing. When things feel equal, we start measuring them equally, and I think that becomes a risk. Mhmm. And that doesn't excuse listen. Just to clear. It doesn't excuse local church to put out crappy content. Do a good job. But just I that that's we're not you're not putting on a production. You're meeting with your community. This is the way you're doing it. We did I marked down 2,462 for attendance though. Good. We got like 400 and some views and there were multiple families in some of those, just from the pictures, we knew. And so I just multiplied it. Yeah. And I'm sure every one of those viewers watched the whole thing. Yeah. Definitely. Because that's Facebook wouldn't tell you. Numbers up on the Sunday school attendance and main church attendance board that you can adjust to the left that you still manually change out with their numbers. 2,400. Holy cow. Last week, 235.

And then the fire marshal will come in and go, what do you say, mister Hudson? So so real quick question, boys. Maybe this is easy. Maybe it's not. But in light of spending a week in interesting times as it relates to the COVID nineteen, various impacts on schools being shut down, some businesses not having you work from the office anymore or otherwise being essential, lacking toilet paper, whatever. What did you learn this week? Let's start with you, Buva. What'd what'd you learn this week? Oh, man. I I'm trying to I'm trying to not just have a negative light on this, but

we we we do not know how to occupy our time correctly at all in any way shape or form. We just don't. In the absence of work, somehow, has turned into an insane time for people, like they just have no idea how to occupy their lives. And your job's pretty much out right now, isn't it? No. I'm I'm one of a couple people that are still working full time. So Oh, okay. Because it's just like no events and stuff. Yeah. I know. So it's it's yeah. So they well, I'm basically trying to build the company while we've got time off. And so working for a small business has been interesting because I'm taking this time to kinda build their infrastructure and develop them to be a company that that can last this kind of thing going forward. So I'm lucky enough that I've I've still got a job, and I'm thankful for that. But, yeah, for for those that that don't, it's just it's interesting to to see people have to figure out how to spend their time.

And we just we don't know how to be productive without the one thing that feels like it's actually giving us worth, which is our jobs, and that scares me. That scares me that so many people right now feel a lack of self worth because they don't have a job. They have families and they have people that they care about, they've got all this different stuff, but for some reason, they just don't don't see that as something that offers them worth versus how much money they make and what they do throughout their forty hour work weeks. Okay. Right on. Dan, what'd you learn this week? Oh, boy. One one, people people are insane. Mhmm. K? And but the second thing is how do I respond to their insanity? I need to I need to live in their reality enough to not

look down on them or mock them because that's my nature. What? I'm saying. What? What? But be sensitive and and and because because people are genuinely there are people genuinely scared about this. Yep. And I keep going, it's the flu.

So I have to be careful just to say just to back off, you know, and and, appreciate where they're coming from. There there is some risk, maybe, But it's hard to come up with all these hard statistics when we don't have all the data. Yep. What what is the death rate? Well, we don't know. It's really bad. You know? Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I mean, you know, is it? We don't know. We don't know how many people have it. Anyway, that that's, I I I guess,

empathy. I gotta learn yeah. I gotta It's forcing empathy into Dan's world. I've tried to fake it at least. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I bet that is Yeah. Mike, what'd you learn this week? I don't like asking the people at the gas station to get my food out of the warmer. Oh, man. That is weird. Yeah. Because actually what they Here's what they I mean, well, they take real advantage of the situation. Right? Like, you used to be able to go in and grab yourself two slices of pizza. And I would look over to pizza and find where they got the amateur cutting it. And I would take the two biggest ones in there. Yeah. Because like on both sides of the pizza, there's gonna be two gigantos because the man doesn't know how to cut it right. And I thought, yeah, every day. It was fine. And then, since I'm not allowed to do that anymore, I'm at the whim of the guy that cut it. They don't And he always gives me the Donate it to charity slice. You know, always the super tiny parts. And then

this is terrible. And then they they decide they wanna package them in a more closed, plastic carton, so they cut them even smaller and double them up and stick them in there. And it still don't equal a whole piece of pizza. Same price, though. Same price. I had my hands sanitized as I went into Trader Joe's this afternoon. Like, there's a person there doing it? There's a person there doing it. Oh. It I I'm I don't mean to just piggyback off of what you said, Mike. That's the situation. As someone who is very, very often taken advantage of the of the big pizza slices Yeah. In my life. Like That one. You bet yourself that I'm the guy that walks in, and I'm like, I'll distract the guy cutting the pizza so that I can guarantee there's two big slices. Yeah. I've lived that life before. I understand that. But for some reason, I walked into Trader Joe's today to get myself some some sunflower butter. Don't judge me. And Some what? What? Sunflower butter. I took the last one at at Trader Joe's four days ago. Oh, did you? I did. Did did okay. Sorry. This is totally not for what the our content is supposed to be. Did they up the prices of almond butter? Oh, I don't check prices.

I live in a different world than you. I'm sorry. Hold up. Do you guys wanna know what I learned during this pandemic? Ben's the kind of guy that walks into the Trader Joe's and doesn't check the prices. Here's here's Wow. I'm pretty sure there are rappers that boast about that too. Are you cool with that? This is it's different than what you think. My wife checks prices like a fete. Oh, okay. My wife very well knows what I'm supposed to buy or not. So if she says buy the almond butter at the Trader Joe's, I don't look at the price. I would say my way at the restaurants and say, I'll take a number three. I'm I'm really glad that's the situation. I thought you were the guy going, oh, whatever it is. I know I could afford it. I'm not worried about it. That's totally how that sounded. You should have started with the story of my wife checks the bills. No. I no. I'm I'm well, so I'm half worried about it. My wife is just awesome at this. So yeah. Like, that's there's a reason we go to three different places, and, she knows where to get the right stuff. Yeah. So I just get the stuff I'm supposed to. Alright. Fair enough. I've never been to Trader Joe's. You're missing out. Trader Joe's is awesome. I used to make fun of it hardcore. I thought it was the total hipster place to go to, but they just have sweet prices on on deals. Like, they got good stuff, and it's good it's good products. Yep. But I had my hand sanitized walking in, and a gal with blue hair and camo pants walked up to me and said, can I sanitize your hands? And then squirt it onto my hands. It was not a question. I guess so. The the question was a pleasantry. You make me all tingly. Right. She she said, can I spray this? I'm like, apparent yep. You sure can. Thank you so much. So so I had that experience at the at the Casey's with the you gotta ask people to get stuff out of the warmer. Like, they didn't have doughnuts are out. The doughnuts are not out, and they they they

redneck the thing. They just took some duct tape and duct taped the warmer with the sausage sandwiches shut. Yeah. So you couldn't get in. Yeah. And, like, here's first of all, the sausage sandwiches are already in a plastic container. Mhmm. What am I gonna do? Anyway, so I go back there and it was I never buy donuts, but this morning, we had some we had someone stay the night. So like, hey, we go get us donuts. I'm like, yeah. I'll go get some donuts. So I go out there and like, I look and my first reaction was, there's no freaking donuts here. Where are all the donuts? It's like eight in the morning. And so they had it in the back, and like, I'm not gonna tell you which one it was, but I'll tell you this. There was a Debbie working back there. You know Debbie I'm talking about, Mike? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a Debbie. And so, you know Debbie, who's done made all this food, is sitting back, hand on her hip going like this. And I say, hey. I need to get a few donuts. Okay? And she stares at me, and I said, need three chocolate, three glazed. Okay. And so then she gets she gets She sounds wonderful. She gets three chocolate out, puts it in the box, and then she steps to the side of the donut thing and looks me in the face again and goes,

okay. And I stared at her for a minute, and I said, okay. Three chocolate and three glazed. Okay.

And then she gets the three glazed out and is, like, disappointed in me that I've had her reach in there second time. Like, this is not my process, friends. I would have picked from the group case. I'm alright with it. It was really awkward. And I here's the deal. I'm not buying doughnuts and cases again till they till they take this out. I I can't do it. It just it it's it's socially awkward for me. I can't do it. Here's the deal. You need to go to Krispy Kreme. Krispy Kreme knows what they're doing. They are used to this, and it's not a problem. You can do this in the drive through, and they're they dig it. There's a Krispy Kreme over on E 6 you need to go to. Did I ever tell you about that that doughnut joint I went to when I was in Colorado called the Colorado? No. No. That sounds awesome. Oh, man. Oh, you need to now. Don't feel funny afterward? Oh, man. Here's I've I I think I told you guys about this dude. I walked in there. I took the I took the four of us in there for breakfast or whatever. I spent $95.

Oh. Oh my. Because that guy, he's he's just the slickest, most easiest dude to get along with you ever. Right? Like, he'll I'll be like, I'll have this sandwich. He goes, you gonna have avocados on that thing? I'm like, yeah. Sure. He goes, how about a how about a shot of tequila with that? I'm like, what? He goes, yeah. I mean, everybody I'm like, no. No. It's alright. He goes, yeah. I'm like, I didn't even drink it. I did, Reno, tequila. It's light in the morning. What's the matter with you? You know? And like, he's just and he's and he's got he's making cool cool comments to the kids. You know, the kids are like, I'll have milk, and he's like, you want camel's milk or cow's milk? And he'll wink at them, you know, or something. And I'm like, what are you doing? They're like, camel's milk? Turns out those cost an extra $5 or something. Oh. So Is that legit, shrimp? From a camel? No. No. It's just regular milk. Okay. But then he's like he's like A kennel cigarette? He's like, you know what you know what I'll do, though? I'll give you a full cup of cream to go with it. And so he would. He put a bunch of whipped cream in a cup. Kids thought he was the coolest guy in the world. I pay the man. He's like, stay sexy. And then I go off away for my food. I'm like, what happened here? I've been totally suckered in by the Colorado man. I but here's the thing. I went back the next day and did the exact same thing. Rip me off again, sir. Oh, he's he's the best. If you ever I can't remember what part of Colorado this place is in, but if you ever get a chance to go to the Colorado,

I mean, this man is he's walking sex on a stick, this guy. I mean, you just cannot get out of there. I just I don't know how he does it. Oh, that's wonderful. Hide your kids. Hide your wife. Okay. So me, Steph so what I learned this week Nobody asked you. No. I know. I'm at I I'm running the program, so I get to ask myself. Is it's a very good idea to keep your mouth shut?

I And didn't learn that in the negative. I learned that in the positive. I read a lot of things. Oh. And I said very, very next to nothing where I could avoid it. Only when I had to justify some decision I made about something, and that was and then even then, very minimal. It's it's just it's fine. It's fine just to and I'm I'm a better man for it. I thought about there's a two or three times where I thought first, I I thought, hey. I should say something about this. And thought, no. I'm not gonna do that. And I thought, I'm gonna say the thing like a step away that kind of implies that I'm at talking about this thing, but I'm not gonna say it directly. I said, no. I hate that about other people. I'm not doing that either. And

and then I cut it off, and that was it. And it's been great. It's been fabulous. That's phenomenal. You you know what I'm like really disappointed in is is is pastors and all these I mean, all kinds of different pastor groups. Right? Yeah. And and they're like totally like attacking each other for the opposite decision whether you stayed open or didn't. Yeah. I mean, they were like being mean to each other like like degrading and and and I'm just like, what are we doing here fellas? Yeah. What what are we doing? This is when the church of rise is up to the challenge, know, it's like, no, you're stupid. You hate Jesus. So he mean, here's the thing. Is is is this this particular

virus spreading has has glossed away the veneer of a lot of things. Right? Like, you get to see past what everybody wanted you to think. Right? Like, America is inherently selfish. They're just sell we're just selfish people. Right? When we're we're making a run on beef and toilet paper, when neither one of those industries are even close to being a problem,

we're just inherently selfish. Right? And then same thing with church. Right? Like, if you if you if the if the government says, hey. Shut down the congregation, you should probably consider doing that. Right? Like, you're part of a ball. Fine by the Sunday morning attendance. Right. Like, what it's not a big deal. People aren't gonna leave. They're like, oh, they've given up on Yahweh. No. We haven't. Right? Look. We're trying to stop the spread of a disease. This makes perfect if the building had flooded because of a sprinkler that broke overnight, and there was just no way to salvage it, by the time Dan got in there at seven, we wouldn't go, the lord's presence has left us. We canceled today. We'll never run again. I mean, it's just way out of bounds over the top. It is so worshiping religion opposed to what James calls religion. Right? Like, it's it's way missed the mark. And so, like, the funny thing apart this virus, I mean, it is what it is. It's a thing. It it's gonna it's very dangerous for some people. Mhmm. It's semi dangerous for other people. I'm completely okay with with with the steps that we're taking to try to keep it away from the people that it's gonna hurt. These are not things that I'm worried about giving up. If I gotta stay out of work for a couple three weeks, if I gotta go to the store once a week, whatever. Right? These are these aren't the things. It's not a big deal. But the the reactions that it's that it's showing of what people's I don't know, of what they of who they actually are, like it gets to blow past all the niceties and the crazy come out. It's like Teen Wolf. You know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. The virus is a is a a is a full moon, and here come Teen Wolf out. And you're like, I know you. You're fairly reasonable. What are you doing? Every day, it's the same thing. Facebook, a four, five paragraph rant.

What's wrong with you? Yeah. Will you calm down? Go do your laundry or something. Yeah. Hey. Hey. I'm I'm not I'm gonna stop doing this. Here I am again. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? The one of the funniest things was the mix of people and how they react to things. Like, where we thought we had a political divide, I don't think we have a political divide. I've seen some very extreme right and left folks agree on one thing, and then some very extreme right and left folks completely, like, agree on on another thing in your reaction to what the government is doing. We love the government. The government's the worst thing that's ever happened. These people are trying to kill us. They're trying to save us, and, like, odd mixes of people coming together. I think the reason we think Democrat, Republican is because we've given people clear lines where they thought, oh, I have to choose one. I might as well choose this one. It's way more complicated than that. You just start the conversation with a different line, and people will resort themselves out, and they won't end up in the same place they were before. It's it's super like, I I I the thing that sticks with me over this week is was, like, when they unload when they loaded up the military medical ships. Right? Yep. 97% of the country had no idea these existed. Right? Like, where we keep them, if we get them out, what they look like. I I imagine, like, a big white ship with a Red Cross on it. It doesn't look like that. Right? But, like, this is what I think. And so what you get is a bunch of armchair finger waggers. You know, they're like, I know the whole thing. A bobbity bobbity bobbity. I'm like, why don't you dispatch the ships last week then, mister I know everything? You didn't even know we had the ships. You didn't even know they were there. You had no clue. And you were like, I got this thing by the tail. I know the whole deal. We should do this. I'm like, you know some and here's the thing. Dan's right. You you have to look past people's bloviated vomit

on social media and go, their heart is in there somewhere. There's a fear in here. They love people. Yeah. They they wanna protect people. They don't know how to do it. And because they their arm is only three foot long, they decide that they're gonna go after people with bigger arms and assume that they're doing it wrong. That's probably the wrong assumption, but I understand that you're saying we just wanna help people. But like, once again, I don't know how many times in my life that I've been found out to be wrong because I did not have all the information. Somebody told me one thing. I went and found the guy and I said, hey, man. And he goes, what? This that's not what happened. It was da da da da da da da da I'm like, oh, man. I've made a complete balem out of myself. You were a jerk. Right? I'm like, dang.

And so, like, once again, we cannot hold fifteen hour press conferences to give you every detail. And, frankly, as soon as we do, the whole process slows down to a crawl. You try to rule the whole thing by committee, it's gonna take forever to make a decision, and they're gonna make wrong ones. Whatever task for I I wish Pench would put away the stupid blue chart he keeps holding up with, like, fifteen days of quarantine. It's like the only thing the man knows how to do is to show this weird chart. But, like, whatever. They're gonna make mistakes, and they're gonna they're gonna be really wrong about some other things. But you don't have any information, sir. You got nothing. Yeah. That that's I thought that was great. There was they interviewed that guy, Fauci or whatever his name is, the the the head medical dude who's part of the task force and, like, some science magazine interviewed him. And and, of course, the the magazine was loaded. They're like, tell me, when you look back at this, what's gonna be the most egregious mistake that the Trump administration made? Like, oh, yeah. That's a nice softball question. Yeah. But but but the guy's answer was totally he's like he's like, you know, in hindsight, we're gonna we're gonna look back and say, boy, we thought that was really the thing, and and we find out that we didn't handle it right. Says, like, in something this big, when you're trying to move this fast with this much information, he goes, you're gonna you're gonna do the best you can with what you have, basically, but you're going to make a mistake. Anybody that thinks that you're not is foolish. And anybody from from the armchair who thinks that you wouldn't make a mistake in in some way or another that doesn't have significant impact like, here's the deal. You make fun of politicians all day long, but their decisions have major impact. They make a mistake,

significant. It's not your house. It's not your community, literally. It's the it's the country. Because the dudes that we're talking about, like, they'll go on Facebook and rant for days. And if they're wrong, it just goes away. There's no consequence to It just goes away. It's not a big deal. Right? And so, like, Ben's right. Like, the the like them, love them, or hate them, they do make decisions, and they do impact people. And once again, the folks that we're talking about, governors, mayors, senators, and the president, they're trying to run a country of free Americans, and we're a hard cattle to wrangle. Right? It doesn't matter what you tell them, 25% of them are gonna give you the double guns and do whatever they want. Somebody somebody quoted an article where, like, he didn't say this externally, but, like,

they said Trump has been ranting to his to his staff. He's like, what good does it do for me to put people in quarantine if 20% isn't gonna listen? I'm like, I mean, at least he sees the situation correctly. That's correct. That is what's happening. All of America. Even the people that voted for him, they don't care. Yeah. They're they're in the 20%. They're out there shooting darn armadillos right now and then hugging them and giving them to their buddies. They do not care. And that's the thing is is when you have a free people and a free democracy, you have to every we don't have big rebellions because most people are free to rebel. You know. And so so that's the thing is when you try to cinch it down even for the best of reasons, people give you the finger and they'll do whatever they want. This this one that became kinda real more real to the seriousness to to me is my daughter Shanna's in dental school in Iowa and she came and visited her and her husband for the weekend and went back. And then like a few days later we find out well someone in her dental school has been diagnosed with it. Right. She's been exposed.

She came home, were exposed, exposed my other daughter who this Saturday was planning to go see grandpa who has stage four cancer. Right? So they're like, we're not going to go now because we don't we just don't know. Nobody feels sick. Nobody but that's it. It's like, you know, nobody was being irresponsible anywhere. They just kept moving around. Right. And it's like, just stop moving around and it won't matter. That's right. It'll all end in a couple weeks. We're gonna stretch this thing out for nine months, you know. Oh, yes. Yeah. It definitely is gonna stretch out. Well, and I and I the thing is is that, like, it's easy. This is this is where there's a lot of reasonable conversation to have here. There's a lot of things that reasonable people can go, is this too far? Is it not far enough?

What is there is a cost, like, could you lock everybody down for two or three weeks? Yeah. You certainly could. And will it eventually work? I mean, it should. Right? Like, it should stop passing. But, like, Mike, for you, hey. You stopped working for two to three weeks, and maybe they pay you, maybe they don't, maybe it doesn't matter. But, like, is that is that true for the 7,000,000 people that are that are waiting tables and Right. Washing dishes at restaurants that aren't open? And like, does that economic impact start to cause people who are who no longer they're not eating well or they're they're stuck at home with kids, people are sick with other things. It's don't don't tweet me. I don't I don't care. I don't I don't wanna argue about those things. What I'm telling you is that, like, these are right these are right types of questions of which we we we're not gonna have perfect answers. That's the thing, is that, like, you can there's there's plenty of smart people in all echelons who are aware of most of these questions, and there's probably not a great answer. Because here's the thing. You could probably you you get a bunch of sharp guys in a room, and they come with a lot they can come probably come up with a lot of nuanced behavior. This group of people should probably behave this way. This group of people this way. These industries should blah blah blah. And you could probably put a 100 pages together of something that is, like, least disruptive, maximum potential.

And no one's gonna understand it, and no one's gonna follow it. You know what they do get? Stay home. Yeah. So here's the thing. I there there's there's there's parts there's parts of me that's like, stay home. Yeah. Okay. Like but it's well, it's not about me. Right? And you live in a community, you live in a broader situation, and just recognize that, like, sometimes you have to take the path of least resistance knowing that there were costs to it. We do this at what so so, like, a lot of times, even from from my work perspective, I work in a financial services industry. Sometimes I we change a policy that should be way more nuanced than what it when

for for cost, for to be able to care for people in the proper way, like, we can make 10 distinctions, but no one will follow it. No one will understand it. So we make one. And it costs us a little bit more money for some. It probably doesn't provide the best experience for another group of people, But you know what? Everybody understands it's clear, and we can communicate it clearly, and it doesn't feel like it's too complicated, and so that's what you do. And so is there is it possible there's elements of that in here? I think there probably are. But, like, that's what I'm saying. Are you trying to say that, like, like, if they were gonna mandate, like, a a stay home thing, that they're using a lot of flowery language to get there, and they should've just all called the the thing already and said, look. Instead of saying social distancing or, you know, be healthy for those around you or, like, conceptual things, they should've just said, look. You need to stay at your house. You can leave once a week to go get groceries. That's it. Yeah. Which I think they're getting to. So, like, as I think, the more the more they're finding that, like, if you're vague, people will do whatever they want. Or if we say, hey. You you we talked about this before we started. If you get to deem you're an essential business, GameStop is says, hey. We do video games. We're essential because everyone's playing video games right now. Mental health. Well Right.

So there's a hard bucket of of people who could just decide whether they're essential or not, but then different states and different places are going well. Bars, restaurants, tattoos, hair salons. Yes. But you left out, like, other things, which probably certainly qualify, but you don't have time to spec out. It just gets I'm just saying it gets complicated. And so just have some grace with people trying to sort it out well. And I think to your point, Mike, what you were talking about earlier, is that recognize when we feel like we don't have any control, we try to assert it. And when you try to assert it and control, especially over things like social media or decrying what other people are doing, just recognize you still don't have any control. What you're doing is just projecting the falsehood, which is the same thing as the church overplaying its hand on a Sunday morning when it's broadcasting, from its living room when it can't can't do it well. Okay. So hold on now, because now I feel a bit hypocritical here. Because why should that guy actually why is that dude irritating me? Right? Like, guy goes on a four page, four paragraph rant about how everybody's doing it all wrong. Like, I I need to have the same grace for that guy as I'm asking him for the for whatever the dudes in charge that are trying to figure this thing

And and that's not true. I'm not having that same balanced reaction. Chris, I don't like, I I contacted a guy this week. Was like, dude, you're on a rampage. Like, honestly Right. Really understand that half the people who know you are completely disagree with you. Right. You know, you're just driving a wedge. Just really, really calm down. Yeah. I don't you know, it seemed to help a little bit, but but, you know, I mean, so so sometimes you need a little wake up, like, kind of a slap in the face, like, that that's all the guy needed was just Yeah. And and it's still not, you know, still figuring it out. Well, but but It's legit fear. Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to the earlier point. Is that like, I I'm more I have Mike Mike, you're saying more likely to give grace to the people who are trying to handle these decisions. The people who are afraid on the other side that are criticizing whatever in whatever means or criticizing other people for either supporting or not supporting the decisions. Those people are operating from the same principle. They've never been through a do something like this before, at least to their perception.

And so they're reacting from fear, lack of control, probably lack of information, or they feel like they're the only people who have any information, so they're misguided. What whatever it is. I mean, here's the thing. Almost every major mistake in history has been has been started by a man that said, I'm the only guy that gets this. Here's the deal. And then he runs off and and and Jim Baker's in the woods or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, he David crushes the joint. Man. He thinks that. I'm the only one that understands this thing. It's I you don't you're not the only one that understands this thing. I I think that's the thing. Is maybe the thing that bothers me is the flat out arrogance of it. Right? Not to say that we don't have problems in that in our leadership. Right? But the flat out arrogance of, like, you're not even looking realistic at some of this stuff. Right? Like, I I have the same amount of people doomsday in the thing on my Facebook as and with the other 50% are like, this is actually not a thing. Or it was recreated in a lab, and there's some kind of weird conspiracy thing, but the Wuhan's are coming after us or whatever. You know? And I'm sitting here I'm I'm reading both of them. I'm like, neither one of these are a seasoned, reasonable conceptual deal. Right? All of it is is is is pumped full of drama and fear and barking. And, like, I no one could be taking this in, and I'll be hot dog if there's people taking it in. They're like, yeah. That's the deal. The guy from the CDC? Oh, yeah. He he he's one of Trump's stock investors. He knows nothing about the CDC. Like, what is that? What are you talking about? That is not even true.

You know? So I I I it's it's the lack of rationality. And once again, is is because of technological advances, people are used to thinking, making an opinion, and then projecting it within five seconds. Right? I saw what that guy said. Here's my instant reaction. Blah. Like can say, but no consequences. Yes. Zero consequences. Do it again. Right? And then six months from now or ten a year from now, when we're talking about the San Diego Padres had been caught in some kind of drug scandal, no one's gonna remember what you whack job said about the coronavirus, and we're it's just gonna forget it. Right? But you are more than willing to take the biggest stick you own own and beat down doctors that are staying up twenty two hours out of the day with all the information and call them the worst people you ever met. And, like, that seems too far to me. I I mean, trust me. I don't know those people. They could be secret jerks. They could kick puppies, and could be on heroin for all I know. But what I do know is is that they have all the information. I have, like, 10%.

They have some doctorates and some knowledge, and, like, I don't believe everything that comes out of their mouth, but there's sometimes it takes a little bit of of humility to just serve here. Does it hurt me to stay home and do what they're asking? No. So I'm just gonna serve. Yeah. And that's it. And I think that's that's one of the broad that's a good broad takeaway, which is, you have to know what you can control. So, like, maybe there's nuanced things where here, I'm like, I I the direction of this, maybe I don't even think that's gonna help. Maybe I think that. Is it of any consequence if I think that? Does it do anything? Let me tell everybody. Yeah. I mean, like, is it is it likely to shift or change? Or in the presence of whatever I think, are there still people who need serve here? Are there still people who who are who are afraid of which we have good news? Like, hey. Is is there a means is it okay? Maybe maybe just to just to slight slight balance here is to say, I think it's perfectly okay to ask questions. Like, in moments of consequence, it's perfectly cool to say, look. I'm wondering about this. But if you can't do that while showing humility and the grace of Christ and and and and have it not impinge totally the the the church for you having done it, then you better just keep your mouth shut. I think there's people who can ask reasonable questions and say, are we thinking through this well? Because to the same thing where, like, it's there are things that have changed by one person standing up and going, hey. I'm not sure we're thinking about this right. You can't settle everybody quiet. There's there's good upstart. And I think that's alright, but you still have to do it well. Regardless of where you're at here, you have to do it well. I don't care if you completely disagree with the president or the governor or state and local officials or the doctors or the CDC, but damn it, you should do it well. That's right. Your first comment can't be so and so is an idiot.

Yeah. I mean, they're not an idiot. Right? Like, you didn't you didn't do they didn't do the thing you wanted them to do. That doesn't make them an idiot. It just means that you don't agree with them. Right? Now you could get into your reasons. That's the thing. I'd like to see more reasons and more reasonable talk. Like, look. I just completely agree disagree with, what the governor of Iowa did. I feel like we should be on complete lockdown. I'm not really sure what they're waiting on. Can someone help me understand? Because this seems like we are throwing the Frisbee in the in the pond here. I think that's a reasonable statement. That's not what I saw. The governor of Iowa did not call a complete lockdown, and what I saw was, she's an idiot. Okay. I mean, she's obviously not an idiot. You know? She's not. You don't like her. You don't agree with her, but she's not an idiot. I don't even know her. You know? And so, like, I I think it's just a little bit of a a balanced a balanced approach. A balanced approach gives you legitimacy to me. Right? When you can calm collectively and present some facts and say like, if if anybody believes that, like, their news source has given them the 100%. Right? Like, if you wanna come out and compare the two things like, hey. I read this from this scientist, and I read this from this free thinking hippie, and comparatively, they disagree with each other a 100. So where are we gonna meet in the middle here? Where can we find the actual truth? I think that's a completely reasonable conversation, and I think there's good to come from it. But, like Shouldn't we be above all of that, though? I mean, shouldn't the church be the anchor in this whole time saying, hey, so what if we all die?

Right? I mean, to die is to live is Christ, to die is gain. I I don't understand the panic. So does that bring comfort to people that don't know Jesus? Well, I'm I'm just saying we what we shouldn't be panicking all crazy Yeah. Because Correct. That just shows we don't get our own faith. Well, right. It should be that should at least be reflected in our attitude. Right. I suppose, like, even even if you're gonna engage in conversations like that, to what sense is your panic coming from? You're not acting like a person who who is is otherwise anchored in something more secure. Although, I will say we run a risk. I I think there have I don't know how many times I saw it. If I saw it five times, I saw it 50, where people were posturing from the church as if we could just do what we want here because the Lord is protecting us. That's not that's not why. Right? So, like, there's our there's the false anchor. I don't I don't worry about any of this

because the God says he will protect me. I'm like, no. I don't. Yeah. Where'd he go during the bubonic plague then? He was on vacation in Venus. Right? Like, that's a legit disease. Yeah. I and and it was so well, maybe it was I was surprised. There's certain places where I expect to see it. I saw it again easily half a dozen to a dozen people where I'm like, really? Do they understand every one of the bible writers have died? Yeah. All of them. Like I mean Peter was their faith? They're nailing Peter to a cross just before they turn them upside down. He's like, the lord promised he would protect me. Like, I no. And, like, this where some of this the ill fated, hey. We we have to still meet thing. Like, it will be fine. I it may God may even do that. I don't know. He may he may even do that. But, I mean, I think you are that's very tenuous, your your grip on scripture for everybody that's ever died with that understanding. And you're telling me no one that's died of this disease is a Christian? Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, frankly, a a time when the nutrition actually present hope to the world, it's easy for them to go, look at those stupid Christians. Right. They say God will protect them. My grandpa's a Christian. He died of COVID nineteen. These guys are lying. Right. And their and their peace in the matter is fake. Yeah. They may have legit peace, but I you just gotta be careful what you're saying we're tying it to. I

I think you you're very basically, they're picking and choosing, you know, in situations that weren't actually going on. Yeah. And I was surprised because it was it was many, many, many. Alright. Good. I okay. Hey.

I think circumstances may dictate it, so we'll see how next week goes. My goal is to not talk about this next week. Okay. Let's find out I had no I didn't think we talked nearly this long. Yeah. It's just I well, everybody's thinking about it. I mean, you know? Like, you can't ignore your surroundings. Maybe we'll we'll do a secular solemn next week. But here's the thing. I don't know besides the fact that I think there is something about where I think there's something about your local congregation. For you guys that are listening, I I think there's something about it being us. We're having a conversation that maybe other people are having. Hopefully, like, just so you know, this is the stuff that we're thinking about. If you've come to any level of trust or at least confidence that we talk try attempt to try to talk something faithfully, This is our attempt to do that. But here's the thing. I there is a point where we're adding to noise, and I'm not and it's not helping. It's not doing anything either way. So

next week? Yeah. We'll roll it back. Okay. We'll see we'll see if we can find something else to do. But, Mike, you had a you an interesting question before the show started. So my question was is, like, if this continues, which we believe that it probably will, and it's and extends past through Easter, do you think that people in general, like the church as a I don't know, individually,

would celebrate Easter at home? Right? Like, they'd get the bible out and and read it or sing some worship tunes over the over the Amazon or or or whatever? Or do you believe that, like, most of folks, if if the the setup wasn't there, if the the church was not available to go to and participate in the service and people were just left on their own, that they wouldn't do anything? Like, they would acknowledge it was Easter. You know, it's not like they'd be like, oh, forgive. I I I'm done with Jesus. Right? Right. But like, not did. There's a virus. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think they would just go I mean, the celebration is done by the pastor and the and the worship guy and the people that work at the church. We just attend it, you know, but, like, given to our own devices,

you know, I suppose we'll just get together as a family and have a meal and that's I suppose that's it. Just ignore the whole Right. Significance to our faith Correct. Of that day because there's no one to lead you Is it a production put on by the church, I guess, is what I'm getting at? Like, if if if people were to take if the church stopped doing Christmas celebrations, my family would still be up in the morning, opening presents, and do a whole day thing, and it's Christmas. Right? That would continue. Does Easter carry the same weight? Would Easter continue on as Easter at individual homes? Or if the church cannot to get get together as a community, you know, do you think most people would just let it pass? I I would hope not. I really would hope not. I'm optimistic, but

I I would hope they wouldn't ignore I mean, there is nothing more foundational to our faith than the resurrection. That that that's that's it. That's I mean, that's it. But I don't know. I I've been I'm in in the preacher bubble for thirty six years now, so it's hard for me to put myself into the non preacher bubble as an adult. Yeah. You know,

with a family. I mean, I certainly surround myself with a bunch of people that I think would absolutely continue this on and do things. But I was trying to think what mine would look like. Right? And like, I don't know. I don't know. I wonder if we have

This this becomes a discipleship question to a certain extent and I think an influence question from the church perspective. Is is it possible that we have set up a situation where people like even would want to but feel like they don't know what to do? Like what would I do? Does it feel goofy? Actually, that's that's a good question to ask yourself now. Let's let's say that you can't meet with anybody and you can't no no streaming or whatever. And the Internet's down. Yeah. Yeah. You got you gotta do something at home. Does it feel awkward to you, dad, mom, to to get out to Bible and say, let's let's read this as a family. Does that feel weird?

Because it might. And you think to yourself, because that's that's how you might do it. Hey, let's let's reread the story and then we can think. Does it feel weird to say, hey, let's potentially gather and maybe not just, like, tucked onto a bedtime where somebody sneaks in and does it, but and not not at at at dinner so that we we have a closed time frame in which we they're gonna do something else, but, like, this is the thing we're doing. We're gonna come together, and we're gonna intentionally pray together. Does that does that feel weird? And I'm not judging if it does. I'm just asking you. Does it feel weird? Because if it does, that's probably a good thought to say, how do we how do we do this so that this doesn't feel weird? Because it shouldn't. Because that's what our it's what Easter probably would look like is is Christians getting together whether there's a family or others, reminding yourself of what it is that Jesus has done and that he resurrected and that gives us all the hope that our faith promises, and then celebrating that and giving thanks and praying together and not in some pre prescribed way, but just a way that flows out of your heart from having gone through the process and and learned and talked and shared and celebrated. And if it feels awkward,

that's a good place to start. Find the things where like, if this would feel weird, we should probably start doing that because Mhmm. It shouldn't feel weird. And I and I wonder if and I this isn't this this is this goes back to the conversation from earlier about trying to be content pushers. If if the church is in it certainly feels like it's this is not even all the church's responsibility. This is a consumerism thing. Just because you do something doesn't mean it's content. It couldn't just be proper church interaction. But if we start taking it in that way, and then we don't actually have a way that it translates into what our everyday life looks like and couldn't do Easter on our own because we would feel so awkward

because there's not a professional around or an elder around or someone or a seasoned person around to do it, that's exactly the thing to start digging in on because we should be able to do that. My guess is, Mike, is what I Mike was what I think I think there's some people that just wouldn't because the the the shape isn't there. We go to church on Easter. If church isn't going on Easter, they just don't go, and it might come up in a random prayer. They might watch king of kings or something, but that's probably it. I think you have probably a broader bucket of people who would go, yeah. Yeah. Okay. But then they would feel totally weird and underqualified or awkward

trying to lead that in their houses. And I think if if if we're being honest with ourselves and that's you, praise God that he brought that to light, this is a good place to start. Yeah. Well, maybe they would feel awkward because they're trying to duplicate what they see in a church setting. Yeah. This isn't the church setting. It's it's you at home with your family. It's I mean, you are the church but I mean Oh, yeah. It's not corporate, you know. It's it's you guiding your family in the faith. What what more holy thing is there to do? Right. I mean, how cool is that? You know, you know? Hopefully, you're Yeah. Hopefully, you're doing that anyway. But I mentioned earlier that that my I think my my most meaningful

worship every single year is on the way. It's Easter morning, and I'm in the car driving to the church building. Has nothing to do with the church building, nothing to do with what's gonna happen, nothing to do with programming, choirs, bells, cowbells, anything. It's just like this this moment of holy cow. I mean, he's, you know, trying to imagine what was that like. I mean, no one saw it, you know, in this dark tomb and and whatever that looked like, did his eyes open, you know, the I mean, they had you know, just what did that look like? You know? Yep. It's just this moment of all history

changed at that moment. Everything. Everything changed. Everything. And and for for some because it's Easter, I guess. That's why it just it just hits me Yep. Extra. Yeah. I don't know why any family couldn't sit there and just say, guys, what think about this. I mean, doesn't have to be some ornate lesson plan with, you know, puppets or something. Mean, it's just, guys, look what happened. What what what what do you think it looked like? Yeah. You know? Yeah. What would happen if he didn't come back? I mean, you know, you can have all kinds conversation. Yeah.

And and I and I wonder if yeah. I I think that's it. Like, they get you people again, wrong impression. You feel like you have to reproduce something that's happening in in in a corporate space like that in your home, and I you don't. No. You just like Christian's been doing this for years. We get together when we pray and we share scripture and we talk about it and we make sure we feel like we understand it and we sing, and then we go. And, like, that's the same basic shape as your normal church service except for you're not having to do it in front of a bunch of people. You don't have to prepare a bunch of things. Yeah. The bible's already there. That's the good thing. I'll tell you this. This is one of the things that that that has been proven out to me over and over again from a, again, from a house church perspective. We just don't have anything else going on. The scripture is pre it's always there. Mhmm. You there's always I could be out sick for a week. It doesn't matter. The scripture is there. Someone else will pick it up and read it. We're fine. Everybody knows how to pray. The the show will always move on without me because I'm not the prime part of the program. The the scripture is. Now that's true for for churches anyway.

You just don't think of it that way because someone had to type up the slides, and someone had to create the manuscript, and someone had to write so like but but it's still that. It's just you have to prepare it differently when you're talking to 250 people than you do for 40. But but like, you have all the tools. Jesus the spirit's in you, The Bible is generally available in your hand or digital copy. You're just fine. You could handle this on your own. Your church could completely shut down for three months. And and dad, you'd be fine. Mom, you'd be just fine. Go ahead and teach at home. There's not an inadequate because the Bible's adequate. There's not an inadequate because you're praying faithfully. You're not gonna fail because God is with you, he won't let you fail in something where you're trying to honor him. So

I don't know. Maybe to that point, I think we prob most probably wouldn't. One, because some folks wouldn't do it. Two, because they would feel inadequate. I think we can move the inadequate part. I think there's I think there's a way to do it. Moova? I have way less faith in in people. He's a pessimistic Pete. I 100% am. I I I I think it would be unrecognizable

for people. Absolutely unrecognizable. I think without the structure, they are lost. And I think without the concept of somewhere to go, most of these people are gonna be lost and have no idea what they're gonna do. I would say most of them would have to go based off of I know there's a gospel that has this story in it. Or I may know that it's Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. They couldn't tell you where it's at. They would have to flip through to try and find anything about Jesus' resurrection. They may read it.

Great. But for those that read it, I think it's even smaller of of a people that would actually try and like take in the weight of the scripture and and and bathe it in prayer and and presence of holy spirit and kind of stuff. And I think it would be I think it would be more ritual than anything and I I I'm I'm sorry. I'm just super pessimistic about this. He's not feeling it. I wonder how many would just like turn on the TV and whatever I think they would try and find a show. Some of them may try and find some VeggieTales admittedly. We should watch the passion. Yeah. Let's watch the passion of the Christ. We know it ends that way.

I do watch the passion. I'm gonna say actually I'd I'd be okay I'd be okay with that. Yeah. But there's an intent towards it. There's an intent and understanding that goes towards that. Like, there's a difference between yeah. Yeah. You guys get it. Yeah. So so here's the thing. I think we can recognize that that that is true. I don't but that situation for me isn't without hope. They're missing I think they're missing it. Right? Like, these are the the same things where if if if all we've delivered to people is that they know they know what to look out for or they know they feel like they know what to watch, but they've not there's nothing internal about them where they have studied scripture or read it with any consistency that they would know where the story is at Right. Or that they that they pray fervently and believe that God makes a change. I I I that's that's too bad. Like, they're not getting the full sense of peace and freedom and joy and connectedness with and and and guidance of the spirit in their lives for not having that. And I think we do see that quite a bit, and I think that's too bad. But there's but but their intent of their heart is still to say, I wanted honor. I actually just don't know how. I'm not sure how to go about this, and I've got a false impression of how disassociated it is from me personally that I can do this. And maybe if that's if we believe that's to be true, and I think it probably is,

boy, what a cool focus for the church is is to is to remind people that they actually could do this on their own. And and I think we we start to get at that with some of the ministries, men's groups and small groups and things like that. But even then, there's always generally still somebody leading it where you have a a smaller leader that's not the pastor but it's somebody else and still everyone else is deferring to them to do it. There's not a personal sense that like, no, realistically, we could drop you anywhere and you'd be just fine, Christian. And if we can build that up in people I think some of it's lack of tools, some of it's lack of initiative, and they just don't wanna do it. But like, I I'm more hopeful in that situation because I think you're right, but I am hopeful about it because I think it's something you can help. Yeah. I think we start doing that now. I think we start having these conversations now.

But, absolutely, I agree with the concept. I I I appreciate the hopeful thought process you have. I I certainly hope that that's true. Not been my experience, though. I I'm kinda with Move on this thing. Yeah. I just have not seen it. And to be honest, when I say not my experience, I include myself in that bucket. Same. Yeah. Same, bro. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Admittedly, it's it's I honestly believe that I really only have been seeking God for the last eight, nine months, like, really hardcore. Before that, it was I I mean, just the straight up lukewarm,

if if not cold. And and last Easter, if this would have happened, I would not have even opened my bible. Would not have. Not once. I I probably wouldn't have watched past. Going to church, Buva? Since I was 10. 10. So almost twenty years. Almost twenty years. K. My dad was a pastor. Right.

Just just putting marks in the sand to because Boov is talking honestly here. Yeah. Like, he's a a church goer for the last twenty years. Yeah. Twenty years, roughly. Baptized twice. That's the second time I wore Pam so it wouldn't stick to me. Yeah. Sprayed in the face with the Lysol on my way. Yeah. Like, I I don't I honestly, being being boldly honest about this, I do I don't think I would have cracked my bible open. Are you more optimistic, Dan, or no? Well, I mean, the world isn't entirely full of boovahs, but, like, I can I

can echo some of what is coming out of his mouth? Right? That that I I I just can. As you're talking, here here here's the verification. Just go back to prayer. People won't even pray. If I'm in the room, they have to have the preacher pray. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like Agreed. I mean and and I, like, resist that so badly, I'm like, anybody can pray. Right. Oh, no. You you better pray. Yeah. The you were you were the one of the obvious authority in the room. You need to be the one who's praying. I mean, they won't even pray. It's ridiculous. Pessimistic Peter's making disciples. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Here's the deal. It kills me. It absolutely kills me because last year to this year, this year, I will absolutely, but you'll be opening my bible. This year, 100%. I'm not gonna seek out media for it. I'm gonna seek out Yahweh. That's what I'm gonna do because I'm gonna get a chance to go, hey, papa. I wanna remember the story about you letting your son die, but then resurrecting him so that he can completely take on the weight of sin and break it. And it no longer holds power over me. Thank you for that peace. Thank you for that joy. Thank you for that freedom because, Lord, you know I hate chains, and you tell me to get away from them. Right? Like, I'm thankful I have that. And I wish that for for a lot of people. And and I try and live my life so that I'm not just wishing for that. I'm actually trying to do that with people. It's like, guys, you get that too. This is this is this is a thing that you can have. A gift that is not for me. It's for you also. But, like, I really think that this year will be be telling

of the lack of real relationship that the that the church has with its its groom. And and it scares me, and it it it should scare the crap out of us. Like, literally, it should be going to us like, hey. This is our job. This isn't on god. This is on us. Like, if we have people that we know that are living in this kind of thing, they're they're two feet away from us. No pun on social distancing, but they're two feet away from us right now. Not too close. And literally,

I'm not certain if the people that I've run into in the last fifteen years of my life that every single one of them understands what this time is and understands what that day is representing and understands the weight of of the resurrection of Christ and what that means for them. And I I say that to my shame. And I say that many people show up to Easter service knowing that Dan's all fired up? They're like, yeah. Dan's fired up. Right. Right? This is a great day. Uh-huh. And the preacher's pulling into that because they're all fired up. Of course, the preacher's fired up because yeah. You know? And I I think I I've once again, maybe me and Boover just cut from a negative shadow cloth here, but, like, I know I I think that we've very much relaxed

what Acts intends for hierarchies within the church. Absolutely. Right? Like so, like, regular dudes in Acts two were responsible for what Ben and Dan are responsible for. Yeah. Right? Ben and Dan were doing other things. Right? Like, still preaching, still teaching. Right? But, like, discipling your family, talking to people about

a god that you know that that sent his son to die for you, these were everybody problems. These are things every no one invited you to church. They invited you to their house Right. Because they wanted to talk to you about Jesus. And then when you got pumped, they're like, I know a bunch of people. We get together on Saturday, Shabbat. Yeah. Here we go. We're going this way. Wasn't inviting people to church. It was, you're next to me. It's time to talk. But but how many people run into this where they're like, hey. You should come to my church to learn about Jesus? Because Dan will tell you or Ben will tell you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I got you and and thought, well, what if they asked me about Jesus? I wouldn't know what I would say. What do mean you don't know what you would say? What are you doing here then? I and Mike, it's still guilty. Right? Like, push come to shove. Like, have have a have a help me. Have a for your faith. Have your have an explanation for your faith. James, something. Peter. Peter. See? Nothing.

Mike and Muba out. No disciples. Bunch of bunch of window lickers. That's all we got. Yeah. I Bunch of window lickers. Apparently, I'm a total window licker. Okay. At least I get the top parts. Here's the thing. I had the short kid. Here's where I'm optimistic, though. Like Me and Bubba House should have talked you out of this already. No. No. Here's the deal. No. Keep your optimism about it. I have the the the hope of Jesus says you can continue to invite people deeper.

Jesus continues to invite people deeper. Every one of his disciples was a dummy. Right? Like and and so I think I think what this what the the the lesson here or the strong takeaway is that I think it does have to be a very clear awareness of that this is something that we risk producing. Yeah. That we risk be simply by the nature of the society that we're in, and and the the form of which the church functions in our society. It's something that is a risk

that that is inherent in how we do things. Right. And and and it's not even how the church has chosen to do things. It's a risk in the American society because we simply don't behave in such a communal manner. Right. People are used to consuming. They're used to moving in and out. If you present something so that they don't recognize at all, they simply won't interact with And so does is it okay to have bridges in there? Yes. But I think we do have to retain an awareness that if we're not continuing to invite people deeper and deeper into those things, we are leaving them in a place of which they don't get the fullness relationship with God. And frankly, we we are ineffective parts of the kingdom because you're putting a lot of pressure on on people, on pastors specifically, to lead people to Jesus with their content. Right. It may do it. Some people respond to that, but I'm I'm I'm the shifting of the of the souls does not happen primarily on words like that. People people's ears get tickled. People even go, hey. That's interesting. But the thing that changes them I'll be hey, think of it this way. The thing that chases that where people leave the church, one of the prime reasons people leave the church nowadays is because they know somebody who is behaving in such a way that the church does not affirm and they feel for them.

It's a behavior. It's not a it's it doesn't have anything to do with the the the the rules or the social mores or the laws within scripture. It's simply they have a relationship and they say, god says this is not alright or doesn't affirm this type of behavior, this way of thinking, or this lifestyle. And they see that and they go, oh, don't like that actually. I don't like that the church doesn't affirm this relationship that I have. I love these are nice people. I love them. I don't like that that's how it feels. And so they're willing to walk away from church,

from this established religion, because of that. Now you tell me that the force of how things change for Jesus is Dan's words on a Sunday morning. I think they're great. Like, it serves the kingdom well. I think they matter. But I'm just I'm telling you the force of how people behave, it's on the ground. The things that actually change and shift and invite them deeper is on the ground. The reason people are likely to step in and start praying and start digging in scripture and hold their own Easter services, whether the church is on or not, is because they saw it modeled and they liked it. They felt a connection to something. They said, boy, this feels genuine. This feels real. It doesn't discredit the things that got them there, but it says, I saw it happening. Dan could could talk all day on a Sunday morning and say, you need to read your bible more. You should be able to do this at home, and they'll hear it, and they'll agree with it, and then it won't happen. Happen over and over and over again. Dan

Dan could retire on pennies on a penny for every person who said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then didn't do it. K? I'm halfway there. So there is that Just off of Troy not doing Just off of Troy. That's right. Yeah, Dan. I apologize. I didn't want that to be a, hey, man. You were my pastor for, like, sixteen of those years, man. What the heck? I didn't do nothing. I can't make you eat. That was no. You're right. That was one hot just as a I I know he doesn't require this or anything like that, but just a heads up. I I Dan has done a phenomenal job of loving me over my whole life, like, was my dad's best friend. We have has remained in my life wholeheartedly the entire time and has never once given up on me even in a couple years where it's like, hey. Where's Boova been? The people that are long term listeners of this show can attest to the fact that there was a while that I just wasn't here. Gone. Nope. Just I was kinda You're all reading scripture. And I was working downtown in bars,

and, like, most of the time, I couldn't show up because I was working. Hey, guys. Sorry about that. I'm back. I appreciate I appreciate y'all loving me. I mean that a whole bunch. You've had my retirement. I'm good. Just yeah. Apparently, Dan has a bunch of my pennies in a jar. Let you take a bank, goofy. Just just a thought process, though. My my pessimism doesn't come with defeat by any means. Agreed. My pessimism comes with a call to be emboldened. This is this this is our time to work. This is our time to this is God's time to shine. Yep. Like, I you cannot take the pessimism that Mike and I are offering right now and go, oh, man. And e r it back to your living room. It's not acceptable. No. You can't the holy spirit, my friend. Yeah. Exactly. That's not okay. This is not in any way, shape, or form okay. What I'm saying should not be a, oh, man. He's right. Right. Dang it. We're just lost. We're defeated. No. There's no there's no there's nothing inherently defeated about this. Yahweh still wins this. You are wrong if you think you are defeated and have lost. God has not lost anything. God God does continue work. He does work through megachurches. He works through small churches. He works through home churches, and he works through, you know He works through all things out there. Wants to. That's why there's all of different people. You know you know? I don't I call those idiots on social media because they don't worship the lord the way. You are. You are. You fool. You say Yahweh, I say no way.

Oh, no. That's a T shirt. Nope. Social media for the win. No. No. So so I think and Dan and I had this conversation on a radio about basically, between, like, big churches, small cities. On a radio? On the it wasn't here. It was on it was on a different thing. Wait a Why weren't me and Bubba invited to this deal? That's special. They knew that we were lukewarm. They knew that we were gonna be pessimists. I was around who's reading their bible? Hey, man. We're we're on the pessimistic evangelical.

Trying to talk about some serious stuff, but Mike and I have got some really sob stories to tell you. Man, I I recently didn't read my bible. Oh my god. The point the point was is that it so I'd so it does it does we talked about it. It does take all kinds. And And I think, like, if you think about big church, small church, house church, whatever, they all just have their own different sets of risks. Do I think from a from a guy who runs a house church, do I like, my risks are different than churches running two fifty or 300 or a thousand. It's what's unique that we're less likely to struggle with is the very thing that we're talking about. Because people are used to doing things small. They're used to taking responsibility within a group, within a family to read, to pray, to teach, to do whatever because our our our environment facilitates that. Mhmm. But do I recognize, like yeah. Sorry. I I I my implication wasn't, Dan, like, example, that your words are wasted on a Sunday, but No. I get it. The point was to say Dan, this has been a real interesting night for you. Sorry about that. Oh, look. Look. It's time for me to go. But the the I think the point is to say, like, that there's just that the the the risks and the bigger you are, right, is it gets farther away from people feeling like they can can do that. Right? Right? Whereas the the on from a smaller church perspective, you you run the major risk of feeling insular.

Oh, hey. Hey. We're nailing this thing in the living room. Okay. Great. You don't we don't have open doors. Right. Someone can't just walk in, you have to invite people in. Like, there's a like, it takes a different type of work, and the folks that like House Church are tend to be people that are insular like that. They tend to be the people who aren't super outgoing. They tend to be introverted. And so, like, those are that's our risks. Those are our risks. And so it takes all kinds. But here's what the the thing is though, regardless of what the entry point is, it does actually all boil down to the same basic types of things. Yeah. And and you're all hedging to say, well, these are risks that we have. We have to do this to hedge against those. Other churches in different shapes and sizes have to hedge against the heading back the other way. Given the option to listen to you talk about the gospel, I went over and made an insecure. That's the gurgling. That's where we're at, Ben. I wanna invite you to something just a bit deeper. I won't go. If Buba don't go, I don't go.

Buba lead me in this meeting. I'm trying. I'm trying to go. I'm going to be reading my bible this year on Easter. I promise. I don't care who's meeting, and I'm gonna invite people in my home. I don't care. I don't have that big of a place, but I could fit a couple. Hey. So real quick. Speaking of bad decisions, I fired up a lie from the past store this week. Well, that sounds like a terrible decision. Hold on. Now gotta I gotta double check. Tell me there's a shirt that says Yahweh or no way. No. Wait. Mike. Mike. No. Actually, I just considered the fact that that is probably definitely using the lord's name in vain, and I'm not gonna retract it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a Oh, crap. You led me into this, Mike. Yeah. I I wish I hadn't done it now because I'm did, and you celebrated. Yeah. It's not really that dang it. I didn't see it as a big deal until I said it. I'm like, you know what? That is totally If you read your bible, you'd know that stuff. That is not the way to do that. So now I'm rescinding that, and and that's no good. Hey, man. Why? Kenanite. Why is that using it in vain? Because I'm It's a proper noun. Yeah. But I'm I'm I'm the the name carries more than that. The name carries more weight and glory and honor than that, and I used it in a passing joke to satisfy the comedy of three people in in in a room. I I I wish I would have done it. That's all. Don't know if it a mortal sin or anything. Okay. So here you go. You go you go to live from the path.org backslash shop, you can pick up another number of sweet items.

You can pick up the life the life from the path latte mug, a thrift store priest fashion tee available in both light and dark colors. Hey, man. That's a priest fashion tee. What is a latte cup versus a regular cup? It's bigger. Yeah. There's a there's a sweet hoodie out there, a couple t shirts, a trucker hat, a woman's organic tee for $15. Who's that lone wolf running the hat? I thought he looked cool. We we we were inspired. We had our guest here on recently. Yeah. Actually, gonna say that's a very valid point. We we just had a brand ambassador over here. Now we're like, we could make t shirts. So I had intended this was this was a remember that this year, I was trying to figure out ways to make to actually pay for the program, I didn't Oh, valid point. Paying for stuff out of my pocket. And putting a shop together was an idea that I had, and then I hadn't done it. And then, yeah, that guy was in, and I thought, oh, yeah. I was supposed to put a shop together. And luckily and don't tell anybody, but I've been working from home. And sometimes I have a little downtime, and my other computer's over here to the right. And so I've been setting up a small shop.

Hey, man. Can I get a Live From The Path, like, giant mug that's, like, 64 ounces? They don't offer those on our on our print provider. What how do I can okay. I want that thrift store priest mug. Ain't it pretty cool? Yeah. It is. It looks pretty awesome. Anyway, there's some good options out store priest. I really you should have wrote thrift store priest, though. You should have just wrote TSP. Yeah. People are like, what's teaspoon? Yeah. That's true. Yeah. It's not gonna come off right. Yeah. Anyway, that's I mean, teaspoon priest kinda works too. Yeah. Live from the hey. By the so I I needed a better picture of it, from pictures that I'd taken, and so, I went and looked online, and there's people selling the thrift store priests on eBay for $40. What? Yeah. Really? So if we need to make some money for the show, we could sell our mascot? Yeah. Who's it who's it supposed to be? They said praying Saint Monk. Praying monk. Wooden praying monk. And there's, like, a whole set of them. Like, there's different there's one that's kneeling, and then there's yeah. Yeah. We need the set. Yeah. We do need the set. Okay. Well, we we have a display case. You know That's right. You know we could do that we currently have a head in. Yeah. A head that has Christmas lights in it. That display case has seen no more action than the day when this desk was installed. Right. And there's no this sense.

Except for the random cord that makes its way back there. We're like, where'd that cord go? In fact, now that it occurs to me, I don't know that we've ever wiped this desk down and did the Not seven years. It's been here. Tell you I have personally never done it. I know that I've brought trash up here. And then someone I can tell you that I someone takes it out every once in a while. I don't know who. I have been a part of the problem. Never once part of the solution. I keep adding to the garbage can out there and assume someone that goes to Churchill will get sick Sure. I hope so. And take it out. Oh, no. Sorry, Dan. Alright. Anyway, that's live from the path.org backslash shop. And

yeah. Now it's here's the thing. It's the the the stuff's a little pricey. I don't like this is the real whole reason I never wanna set anything up because oh, to make any money at all, shirts gotta be, like, $20. I'm like, yeah. $20? What? I wouldn't buy that for $20. But here's the deal. I have, on occasion, enjoyed people and wanted to support what they were doing, and I paid the $20 for the shirt. And so look. If you like the if you dig on the show or you just like the thrift store priest and you wanna pick up something, just know, like, it costs money to be on the air. The like, the Internet's free, but, like, the equipment costs some money. We got a host of website and stuff. I mean, Pathway Church donates us the Internet. It's not actually free. We're That's true. We're not paying for the Internet. Now I think they're running it anyway, which means you can drive in the parking lot and use the Wi Fi, and Dan's not likely to chase you off. He hasn't to me yet. But but, yeah, anyway, just just know that, like, you know, whatever. Every once in while, we need equipment. We gotta pay for web hosting, and that's where the the money's going for, or I I might buy a soda with it. But, you know Is there a is there a T shirt that has your and Mike's face on it? No. Can we make that happen? Why would you want that? Because that sounds awesome. You're gonna wear a I'm surprised that neither of you freaked out about the fact that I don't want a shirt with my face on it. I just want you guys' face. I think you already have that. Yeah. I think you No. I don't have a me face shirt. I've intentionally, as an as a step to never go on to that level of pride, kept myself from a booba shirt ever. Never put on a clean white tee, stood in the mirror, looked at your own face, and tried to draw your own face on a white shirt? That's that's never happened. Let me ask expensive white shirts are for a guy my size, Mikey.

Let me ask my white T shirt is four of yours, and the price is reflected. Dang it. Mike, let me ask you this question. If we were to make a shirt with boovah's face on it No. What would the tagline be? Boy. I you know what? I could put him the slogan that he is in my phone. What does it say? Fart in the wind. Every time he calls me, I'm not sure where he's at or what he's doing or where he's coming or where he's going. And so when he calls me, his name comes up in my phone as fart in the wind. That's a valid point. Every time I call Mike, I usually am asking him a car question Yeah. Or asking for him to come take care of my car. It means I left him somewhere, and then I come back. He's not here no more. Hey, man. That's a valid point. I would totally buy That got changed when he was on his, sabbatical from coming to the show. I said, until he changes his ways, he's going in as farting to win, and I had changed him back. I freaking love it. Alright. Put the thing on it. Hey. Complaint line. What would you put on the shirt? Yeah. Hey. What do we put on the booba shirt? 5155170085515.

Yeah. I don't want the booba fan club calling in. Oh, he's the best. You think there's a booba fan club? I know you got more friends than I do. Mike, let's be honest with ourselves. That is not a difficult feat. That's true. You I got a cardboard box more popular on Facebook. I was gonna say, Mike, you you generally come off as a curmudgeon to anybody that doesn't actually know you who you are, and you in social situations is still one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life. Just a reminder at one point in time, Mike and I went to a Panera Bread, and it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life because we walked in because his wife had asked us to grab a couple loaves of bread for some kind of occasion. I think it was a holiday. I don't remember. But I can't remember what it was. And we walk in, and I'm prepared for the social niceties of being in a prepare panera bread. Mike is 100%

unprepared at this jovial nice person that walks over and is excited about the fact that they've got, like, 47 different types of bread pretty much going, what kind of bread do you want, sir? Living up to the training and their hiring process and what was expected. And Mike's response is basically, I just need bread. Just get me. And he he did everything but just point at colors that he wanted. That

one seems brown. That one's a a lighter brown. And that do you have whole wheat? These are this artisanal bread wall of baskets of loaves of bread, and he's just like, whatever. And just watching the life leave this person as they tried their hardest to be excited for Mike today. That's tough. He walks in just booted up.

Whatever you got, I guess. He tried to get me to join the bread club. Oh my gosh. I wish I would have known beforehand. I would have video recorded this entire thing. Like, oh, I'm sorry. I need you to ask that question a little bit louder and into the microphone. What exactly would you like this man to sign up for? Your bread club? Yeah. And it was after the fact that you had said, a couple like, whatever you got. Yeah. And he goes, oh, this seems like the kind of guy that's excited about an online bread rewards club. Yes. Can we get you to be one of our VIP eight members? Absolutely. So I say again, it is not that difficult to have more friends than you. There is no boofa fan club. So that did make me think, for the shirt with Mike's face on it, it's gonna say, can I just get some bread daily if you got it?

I dig it. With Mike's face. Remember we were gonna have the app that had a had a screen in it that said, do not trust this man? Yes. This man can't be trusted. Yeah. That's on my list of things to do. Here's the thing is I I was kinda hoping this sounds terrible, but this virus thing would free up some of my time. I am busier than ever. My work is harder, and I'm doing it all from home, and, like, I got no time. And people are like, boy, I've watched every movie on Netflix, and I rearranged all of my flowers to spell my name. Now what do I do? And I'm like, I wonder what's going on over there. I'm busy. Yeah. And so I I thought maybe I'd get to I'd get to making that app, but I just ain't got around to it yet. There's a ton I mean, seriously, go back and listen to just to pick a date a year a year back and listen to all the shows up to this point. We'll we'll we've put out 75 T shirt ideas. We just don't catch them. We do a lot of quippy weirdness. Okay. Alright. I'll just start picking them up, start putting some some hey. I am gonna do a be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends poster or something or maybe a mug. Why not a shirt? I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I could do a shirt. It was just kinda weird that we've been throwing out t shirt ideas, and then all of a sudden, you're like, I'm gonna do this on poster. Like a thing something I put on the wall. No one's gonna put that on the wall. No. Yeah. Put the put the the TSP on there and that and that phrase. Eight. Okay. TSP says I have a shirt press downstairs. What?

We make our own shirts now. Dan, we're twenty minutes into this shirt conversation. Are you just now throwing this out there? You know? I'm just saying. We even talked about the price of our shirts. I know. I can re greatly reduce them. Okay. Hey, Ben. What? I heard recently that there's a guy that we know that has a T shirt press, and he's saying he can greatly reduce the the price of our shirts. What do think? No. No. The I'm gonna charge the same amount. We are gonna make more, though. I mean, I appreciate the fact that we're broadcasting this on the air so that our listeners know that, yeah, we're gonna make more money off of that, but we're not gonna lie to you. Does this does this look like a rich organization here? No. We could use it. It's a valid point. Okay. I'm gonna have to jump my car when I get out of here. There's nothing there's nothing rich about this organization, guys. We just have to make the transfers online, but I can put them on here. Okay. Okay. Sweet. We're gonna talk it over. Mike, what do got? Dear life from the past. My husband, Charlie, and I have been married for seven years.

We are in our mid sixties. Oh. This is the second marriage for both of us. I hope so. He was widowed some years before we met. We have a good marriage. He is sweet and caring, but one issue causes friction between us. It's about letters he and his late wife exchanged. They were high school sweethearts. She kept all the letters he sent her when he was away in college, and after she died, he wanted to keep them. It bothers me that he's still attached to them. Whenever we talk about the subject and I ask him to dispose of them, he gets defensive, says he doesn't understand why it bothers me and accuses me of being unreasonable. He says I don't even, quotes, let him have a picture of his late wife among our family pictures around the house. My first marriage was very troubled, and I never wanted a picture of my late husband, but Charlie's was a happy one. Am I unreasonable, or is it time to let the past stay in the past, as painful as it might be to detach from objects that were an intimate part of his previous marriage?

Okay. So I feel like you answered your own question by talking about your situation. Your marriage was troubled. Yep. Right. And his was sweet and great. Yeah. And it ended through death, but it didn't end for him. Like, it may have ended from the practical perspective of he is no longer with his his physical wife because she's she's passed away, but

he still loves her. And I'm I'm glad of that, actually. As a matter of fact, so I have a very interesting perspective on this. So my my dad passed away when I was 18. And my mom was actually dating not too much longer after. It was a couple months, but it wasn't too much longer after. Long story, it was actually the guy that she was dating before she met my dad. So it was a really weird way that that worked out, but it was really sweet. Yeah. And I remember before my dad passed away,

he he had it was an eerie conversation now that I could recall it. Eerie conversation with my brother and I and said, if I ever pass away, your mother will have to meet someone. And we kinda didn't understand what that meant. We're like, what do you what do you what does that mean, dad? And he goes, well, I ever pass away, your mother will need someone. That's just the kind of person she is. She she she will need someone. And it's not a detrimental thing. My mother was very strong in many ways, and he loved her with all of her heart his his heart, excuse me, but he knew that she would need someone to get over him and, like, to move on. And it was it was something that was very odd to hear at the time, but, like, once he passed away and once she came to me, she had lunch with me one day and she goes, I wanna tell you about someone. And it's the first time I saw her smile since my dad passed away, and she started telling me about this new guy. And I immediately just said, love him. I I love whoever this guy is, and I want you to be with him because I've never seen you this happy since dad passed away. But he was 100% respectful of the fact that my father

was the love of my mother's life. Yeah. 100%. And she loved her her new guy and was excited to be with him, but, like, she loved my father. And it was never an issue between them because she he recognized that he didn't come second. It wasn't about that concept. It wasn't a ranking There's no competition. It wasn't a competition at all in any way shape or form. It was she devoted her life and her heart to that man and said till death do us part. They've they were physically parted, but in no way emotionally parted, but she was prepared to love him as well. And it wasn't anything where they needed to compete about something. It was literally just she loved my father, he passed away, and then now she loves this man. And it never became an issue for my brother and I either. We were excited about that because it was my mom's happiness. This kills me to hear about this marriage. Like, he's sweet. He's loving. He's all these great things, but you can't handle the fact that he has memoirs of his his previous wife. You should be excited and honored

to be married to this man that is devoted even after death, devoted to his first love. Loves you correctly, but also has love for who he has lost. I'm sorry that your first marriage was rough. I'm sorry. I can imagine how hard that must have been, and that's awful. And, of course, we don't want you to have a bad marriage, and there's there's definitely

scars and and and and wounds that come with that. But it's unfair, completely unfair for you to put the scars and wounds that you have on your husband and become an issue in that way shape or form. You need to have grace and love for him, and you need to pray for peace for yourself and ask him to help you with that because he's trying to love you correctly while honoring the memory of his late wife. I respect that, and I appreciate that. As someone who's seen widowed parents, I appreciate that. And I really wish nothing but the best for you, but I I you you are. It's it's an overreaction. You need to realize that you can't let your past relationships

dictate your jealousy and your inadequacy to what this relationship is now. I'm sorry. He's being unreasonable. Yes. Yeah. I would I would say she she needs to let go of her past hurt in her marriage, embrace

his past joy and then she will be able to experience that same joy Yeah. In their marriage. Share that. Which is what you were saying. Yeah. You you you have an opportunity to have the greatest relationship because you know you have the greatest guy. Right. Right? So yeah. Let let it go. It's gonna be it'll be hard because you you haven't been you haven't shared that, but you can. You can experience it if you let that stuff Yeah. Allow yourself to be taught what that looks like in a relationship in practicality. Because you're his current, and he could save your letters Exact yes. And that's the thing. Send him a send him a letter. See if he'll see if he'll keep Do you think that people will would would take that well where where, like, the I mean, she asked the question, but, like, I don't think she expects the answers to come back as you're being unreasonable. Of course she doesn't. Right. You're This was this a cry for validation. Right. You're you're being unreasonable here. And so like, the question is is like, what do you do when you find out that you're being unreasonable? And you don't actually think that you are. Obviously, if you thought you were unreasonable, you'd have changed it already. Right. Right? So like,

in the face of something that's been going on for seven years and, like, her husband's right and she is wrong, what's the first thing that she can do to help move this along? Because that's no one's gonna take that well. She she probably needs to get some actual professional counseling to resolve issues with her previous

relationship. Yeah. I I think That's fair. You know, people can help you with that stuff. Agreed. Yeah. Because that that has the impact even way beyond this particular thing like Right. Yeah. That's more If you have not if you have not let go of the anger and the hurt of that previous marriage and that previous relationship and you're dragging that into this new one. And it's real. It's real hurt. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. No. I'm I'm not I'm not Yeah. I'm not making it not a real thing. There is absolute hurt and pain to your past. There's no doubt about that. I don't I don't seek to take away the validity of that by any may means. I don't seek to minimize that either. That is real,

but it can't control you. You are offering it too much power if you allow it to control who you are and especially your current relationships. And it's not even just about the fact that it's it's it's two widows deal or dealing with previous relationships. That's anyone in any relationship. If you are plagued by your past relationships and you allow them to incorrectly influence your current ones, that's something you need to deal with. Whether that's together, that'd be great. Go together to talk about these things so your husband can be involved in the healing process and maybe understand where you're coming from and offer you empathy and offer you, help towards that and help be a rock for you in this situation. But, like, talk to people about this. Resolve those issues. You can't walk around with with an open wound. You can't.

And there is peace to be had if you if you ask for the help to get to take care of that. As someone who's had to do that for myself, get help for that open wound. It's not fair to you. You're not being fair to yourself and you're definitely not being fair to your spouse. K. Secular says, why have you not accepted that Charlie had a life before fate intervened, took his wife, and you entered the picture. People who had miserable first marriages, as yours was, often choose not to remarry. Charlie is who he is in part because of his happy marriage to his first wife. You are making a mistake by competing with her. Stop insisting that he get rid of the old letters, which hold great sentimental value for him. And if he would like to display a photo of his late wife, quit giving him heartburn. She's part of his history,

and it's his house too. Dang. I mean, that's a little more stern than I think we were going for. Right. But I'm surprised secular came with that kind of work. It's not usually her. So that's not how that comes out. That that was Usually, call the police. Right. Seek counseling or call the police. Yep. That was a left hook from Secular. Yeah. It was. By the way, this is the number to the my husband had a first wife hotline. You should call this for more help. Okay.

Last one. Dear life from the past, I am being married in a couple of months. I feel like I'm living a real life fairy tale, but not always in a good way. Wow. Oh. There's a there's a dragon. There's a I'm in a tower. My fiance's stepfamily has made it clear that they do not approve of our union. Oh my gosh. They have gone as far as to ask me to leave him.

My fiance's stepfamily. So it's on his side. So her future husband's stepdad Even removed. Yeah. Says, you should leave that guy? Boy, this is Keep going. Sorry. Here we go. He is appalled by their behavior and has told them that they are no longer welcome in our lives or at our wedding. Good. They were livid and blamed me. Who cares? I don't want my wedding to be the cause of pain, so I've tried to be understanding, gracious, and forgiving, but they are toxic people. Don't invite them. My fiance is my very own real life prince charming, and I want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life with him. Life on the path, I am terrified they are going to show up to our wedding anyway or try somehow to sabotage it. What should I do? If they show up, shall I let them stay or have them removed? How do how do I prevent them from intruding in the future? Here's the deal. You call me. I will stand at that door. Wow. I will stand at that door and keep them from walking in. That is ridiculous. And I'm proud of your fiance for standing up for his future family. Boy, Booba. I feel like you you jumped on the you jumped on one ship, and I'm jumping on the other. Oh, really? Yeah. I this woman sounds eight.

We I'm going to be married in the next couple months. My she mentioned fairy tale and prince charming twice. And hold on. Where's where's where's the line that really I thought I thought settled it in? I have tried to be understanding, gracious, and forgiving. I am great, great, great. I am great, great, great. Oh, that's true. We are They're toxic people. People that use the word toxic people to describe other people. She was asked to leave her fiance by the That's pretty toxic. That's pretty toxic. Here's the thing. Is this that's straight up toxic right there. Toxicity. I don't actually believe that's how it happened. I the way that she tells the story makes me believe that You are putting that on that, though. You have no reason to believe that that's not You have no reason to believe her. I mean, it could have been like, hey. You sure that's the right person? And she took that extreme, but Still, that's awful. That's pretty terrible. Here's the thing. It's what you haven't considered is maybe the guy is toxic. The dude? Yeah. Prince Jarmie? Maybe the guy she's marrying is is completely manipulative. So you think Yes. I think You think the family's trying to save her? I think the family's right. Oh, whatever. It's a stepfamily. Come on. You can't tell me that the stepfamily is trying to save her by asking her not to marry. I think yes. I think the stepfamily is right, and I think the dude is a jerk. And I think this she's way too doe to be walking in a straw. You're literally getting this just because she mentioned a fairy tale of a marriage? Twice. And she capitalized prince Anne Charming.

It's a it's a proper noun. It's a fairy tale name. It's still a proper noun. Who is the step family? Like, does that mean it's his mom's new husband, but the mom doesn't care? But it's just the ex the the I mean Yeah. That's a weird way to push that. That's a valid point. Who's the it's the step family, but not the the Step parents? The regular family is okay, but the step I mean, who cares what the step family thinks? I wonder why she called it the step family. Was it was it his I wonder if mom's dad died. His brothers or something?

Like, what is a step family? Kind of another weird thorn. Step Maybe mom died. There's a stepdad. It's still a Then this is Cinderella. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. Oh, man. This is 100 Cinderella. I'm a show up Like, I cannot I cannot agree with you. I'm a show up to our wedding anyway and try to somehow sabotage it. What should I do if they show up? Should I let them stare or have them removed? I mean If they're showing up to It's your husband's family. I I was Family has to deal with blood deals with blood. It's not even blood. It's step. Step blood. But it's blood. Now I I suppose I

don't wanna contribute to Mike's conspiracies. But but you're about to no matter what you say, man. So the step but the stepdad would know. Yes. He would. He's the guy who's got an outside perspective on this group of group of hagglers. He's the one who wormed his way in and had an affair with the mom. Okay. Yeah. Woah. Holy cats. That's that's a telling window. Here's the deal. Here here's the deal. Sorry about that. Here's the deal. You guys are operating under the guise that the stepdad is trying to help the lady Yes. To get away from prince charming. I'm saying the worst. I'm saying it's possible.

I'm saying it's the deal. Saying it's possible. He's he's like Why is it possible? Because he's it's very possible that he entered into a situation, and now he's trapped. And he's he's Lazarus. He's the guy that's Oh my gosh. Now listen here. Lazarus. Go tell my brothers. Tell my brothers. They don't have to have this face. Hold up. Try to talk. Did you just say he's Lazarus? Yeah. But I've In the in the realm of possibilities, this could be a person that is in a living room speaking to a bunch of mannequins and is completely insane. Now listen. How many times have you tried to tell a starry eyed teenage girl or a starry eyed girl who's in love with a guy and you're like, look, I I feel like that guy is an an alcoholic. You just don't want us to have our love. We want you be They don't listen. Yeah. So agreed. If we're talking to a 14 year old girl Which this one is. You are I forgot to put that detail at the end. It says, how do I prevent them from intruding in the future? By the way, I'm 14. Did this did this letter start with dear diary? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Totally did, Mike. Is that where that's come from? I'm telling you, there's something real fishy about the way this letter's written. There is. There's always two sides to this crap, but this you this is a ridiculous subject to me. Wide, I'm in love with this guy, and he's a manipulative jerk. And the stepdad knows it, and he's tired of seeing him ransack ladies. Or And he's trying to help. Or

it could be, in my opinion, more logically, a situation where she is not the perfect cookie cutter that the step family's expecting, and they're asking her to step away from him. That is ridiculous. Yeah. Because they would be talking to her if he was the prob if the the fiance is the problem, they'd be pulling her aside and say, hey. There's some things you probably need to know. That's what they just said. No. They she said she's trying to get him to walk away, not you think she would leave out the detail of for my own good, they're trying to get me away from my fiance. They have gone as far as to ask me to leave him. Yes. Yeah. Trying to get me to get away from him. Or That was a couple of times They don't like me. Please leave our son because he deserves better. They didn't say that. They didn't say oh my gosh. I don't know why you're reading all this weird stuff in here. Oh, really? Oh, really? Cinderella and Las Vegas just trying to read the story we want, can't we, beard man? I'm I'm I'm reading the text as beard man? Yeah. That's right. Oh, man. This is taking the least of these. Alright, Mike. Let's let's hear what Secular has to say about this one. Secular says Wait. Hold on. What was our We will not come to a resolution.

Okay. Secular says, I hope when you finally graduate high school, things will be better. Oh. Oh, man. Junior high is a rough time. Oh, man. It is it is a good place to be in these arguments when you were the man reading the phone, isn't it? Yeah. She continues. Allow me to congratulate you and your fiance on your upcoming nuptials and offer my sympathy for your grief, which is undeserved. You may need to hire professional security or ensure to ensure the peace or see if security is provided at the venue. What's up? The way to prevent unwanted intruders in the future would be to move as far away from his family as is feasible. Okay. Now that's that oh, man. Secular really didn't help my argument. No. You joined the ridiculous crowd.

Man, Secular. We were we were kind of on par with the first one. Come on. You can't okay. Honesty. You cannot tell me that you really believe your story. Ignore ignore the underlying detail. Nope. Somebody doesn't want you do that. That's where that's what the it's the linchpin. Somebody's where the whole thing lives. It sure is, Michael. It sure is. Listen to me. It's where the fauna grows, man. I don't know why you're trying to throw it out with the bathwater. Somebody It's because it doesn't follow whatever you want it to follow. Well, we just changed the name and showed it a bit show. I'm just saying that's I read it faithfully as to how it was written, and then you show up with your Eastern Orthodox philosophy, and you try to throw it right out. This is the separation of the church, and we got two popes now. Is that what you're trying to I'm just saying you're trying to bring strange fire in here, and I'm and I'm trying to run it straight, and I don't understand this.

Why don't we just move the Sabbath to Wednesday? Is that what you guys wanna do? Interested for you to read that article again start to finish and if there weren't be any discrepancies from the original read. I think I think if you look at the historical context in which it was written, like she's 14, then it makes perfect sense. Yes. Dear secular Strange music. 14 year old married girl. I'm trying to get married. My stepdad's trying to shut it down. It ain't legal here in Alabama. My future stepdad's trying to get me away from my husband, but I love him, and he treats me so good when no one's around. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what you're

trying doing. Get get on on the the same page. Know what? Finally here. Your name's getting changed into my phone. Yes. Indeed. No. It's smart in the wind. Finally upgraded. Ben, what were you gonna say? I say here's what I need to do. I need you to buy some shirts so we can buy some rails here so I know when we're off them. These three land the way you wanted to do This show is made for this rail. Alright. You've listening to the path. That's lifeforthepath.org backslash shop.

And, Lee, hit us up with a complaint. (515) 517-0085. Hey. Have seen any action on the Insta? No. No. Now, hey. We got the Insta, and you guys said, hey. Pass the passwords around. We're gonna fill it up, and no one posted anything. I never once said that statement. Mubba blew up his own instincts with self aggrandizement and didn't post anything. I'm sorry. What did I do? Dear Mike, I'm a 14 year old girl, and I'm about to get married. You're in charge of the Life From The Path Insta, and you didn't post any of whatever pots of food that you're cooking on the Insta on the Life From The Path Insta. Guys want that content on Life From The Path page? I mean, you didn't seem to have a problem putting it on your own page. Because it's relevant to my page. Are you part of Life in the Pathway? Okay.

Adeel, all my recipes are now going on Life in the Pathway. Alright. Yeah. There we go. Now we've got someone to search man. Put it on there. We need some views. Clip this and this show on. Otherwise, I would take a bunch of pictures of my elbow in my arm that looks like a butt. Yours would be able to do that. Be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the pack. I would do it right now.