Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. We're listening to Live For The Path. We're coming here from the Pathway studios in Johnston Proper. And I just $20 keyboard. I just spilled coffee. I

spilled coffee. Man. Alright. Alright. Here's what we got. Wait. How much did you say? $20? Yeah. How much is that? You figure. What? Hello?

Hold on. Hold on a second, Mike. Okay. Now try it. Hey. Okay. That's much better. Anyway. Okay. Something happened to you. You were gone completely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, I I spilled coffee everywhere. That's not your business. You leave me alone with that stuff. You're listening to life from the path. Okay. Here's what we got going on the show tonight. The first first big question of the day is, are we measuring the right things? Mike, give me give me a preview.

Well, I think it was just something that I've been thinking about over the last couple weeks, and I think I've been failing at thinking about it well. But I was considering how we measure things, not only corporately like as a church would, like on attendance or offering given or, I don't know, missions or how many campuses you got or how many views you got on YouTube or something. And personally as well, like, you know, of of of stuff that you're involved in, like, are are you counting how many people that, like, you interact with or how many Jesus conversations you had in a day or or even how often you read your Bible in a week, you know? So I I think the broad question was is one,

like, if we're counting things, are we counting the right things? And two, should we be counting at all? Like, is any of it ours to count? How do you know if you're winning, Mike? Well, that's that's kind of a great question. Right? Feel like I supposed to win? I feel like God should answer those questions. Okay. Okay. Alright. So the question is, should we be counting anything? If we are, what are the right things? And if we're not, I mean, how how do you is it alright to even look out and go, how do I know whether I'm getting anything right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Okay. I think we can hit up to that. Nathaniel, so right before the show was starting, Nathaniel was talking about a guy who said used the reference,

we got you can put 10,000 to flight and we got six. Meaning, hey, if if God can do get 10,000 with two, just think of what can happen with six. And I was unfamiliar with the reference, which probably tells you the last time I touched Deuteronomy,

which is I mean, it's a number of years. Dan, when's the last you're Deuteronomy Dan. When's the last time you were in Deuteronomy, Dan? Probably the last time we did Deuteronomy Dan, which was in '19 or 2019, I think. Yeah. Okay. Deuteronomy Dan's been a long time. Mike, do you remember the premise of Deuteronomy Dan? I wasn't it that Dan would tell

a story and we had to decide whether it was from Deuteronomy or from today's news? I think it was a law, wasn't it? Like a Oh. Is this Old Testament law or is this something I made up? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's That's right. Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy Dan.

I thought about actually doing one of those again. It was probably the best theme song we ever come up with. Like, last week, was poking around like, oh, yeah. Deuteronomy Dan. I could I used to be Deuteronomy. I was famous. I was back then. Anyway, it was from Deuteronomy 32. And let's see. The English Standard Version says, how could one have chased a thousand and two have put 10,000 to flight unless their rock had sold them and the Lord had given them up. Which is interesting because the way that your man's talked about it, Nathaniel, is if that there's power in the two. But the Deuteronomy talks about it as the Lord gave them up. It's just that that he he he sold out the 10,000.

I'm not sure what that event that's in reference to. I believe that Deuteronomy 32 is is is at the end of Deuteronomy. Is that like the song song of Moses? Am I in the right general area, Dan? Oh, hey. There's a context button. Yeah. Song of Moses. This is exactly what it is. If only they were wise, they could understand it. They would comprehend their fate. How could one man pursue a thousand or two put 10,000 to flight unless their rock, capital r, had sold them unless the Lord had given them up? For their rock is not like our rock even our enemies can see from the Berean study boat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway

Yeah. See, I always I I I always like, I get to the poetry stuff and the, like, little songs and stuff, I think, I don't know what you're saying. Don't do. It's not speaking my language. I don't follow this. That that's like we have bands in here, and you guys are like, oh, that was so deep. This is you guys have, like, actual things to say, I'm going here, like, I was thinking about what I'm having for lunch tomorrow. Yeah. That's just where I got Which mommy's delicious. Yeah. Wow. This is beautiful. Psalm 31 and a baked potato. I really feel that way about the Psalms. It's like I I really like folks that are like they're like, I I I read the Psalms and my favorite Psalm is blah blah blah blah blah, and they'll read it, and you can just see their heart aflutter. And I'm like, I don't understand anything you just said. I like the ones when David says, I smite my enemy. I would crush his teeth. I want that guy to die. Can you do something about that? Love, David. That one that one I could take in. Sometimes I'm not a very good Jesus. Okay. Okay. Alright. So we need to we need to

it's manly. The poetry is manly, boys. I'm not saying it ain't. I'm saying I'm not built for it. Okay. I wish manly nothing better, but I can't. I saw a quiz. It has been a while, but it was a quiz on whether or not it was a metal lyric or from the Bible. Oh. Oh. That's kinda fun. That would that would be fun. Yeah. So I I get I get all messed up like when these linguistic guys getting this out. Yeah. When you take like Matthew and you divide it by 19 and you divide, you know, multiply times two and every fourth verse, it does something. Think, no, I think it's Matthew sitting down and writing actually. But Yeah. Now that part remember, that's the same way that that that Steve Brooks who was part of the end of the world thing with Harold Camping that we talked to, that that was all their big deal. Right? Like, copying and pasting like a serial killer. I'm looking for all these different words and phrases that go, you know what? I think the world is this date. I think you were wrong, sir. I'm pretty sure he was telling the story of Jesus. I mean,

they started predicting the end of the world, no one has yet to make it. Things that are, like, kinda considered to be, like, kinda on Dan's point, but kinda off of Dan's point where there there's, like, like, the the people say the the number seven represents completeness in the Bible and or like in Genesis nine, Table of Nations 10 Yeah. Somebody.

Yeah. And there's seventy seventy seven nations. I think that's so so this is where you got me. I I think that's right. Because I think that's that's that can be intentional. The translation of the Hebrew scriptures into English that varies even significantly from, I don't know, the Gutenberg Bible or something, that you found some sort of count by page, by paragraph, by line, that's ridiculous. Like, that's foolish. However, an intentional Jewish writer who said who like does find significance in counts of things, weaving a deeper story than

face value with those numbers and their consistent use of it, that I I can totally buy. That I can totally and it because like, here's the thing is there's a lot of literature that acts like that. Even modern day literature, it doesn't take as not often in the same symbolic type of way, but like a lot of a lot of literature actually does that. There's sub context to the story. There's there's words and symbols that are kind of driving you to a deeper meaning. We look at some of the biblical authors and we go, they didn't do it because I wouldn't have done it. And that's silly. I think that's accurate. That makes me happy. Yeah. That makes me feel like Deuteronomy Dan. It'd be like for example, when we use the phrase stars and stripes, that means that has context to it, has weight. Right? But like, and if if somebody else would use that phrase six hundred years ago, they say stars and stripes, I I don't know what they actually mean. We mean it stands for freedom and a and a democratic government and blah blah blah and all this stuff, and like, the Jewish writers are that way a lot with numbers in the way that they pursue those. Or even with the alphabet. You know, a lot of the Psalms are like just going through the alphabet. They're acrostics. Yeah.

Yeah. That's right. I'm like, but I do dorky things with acrostics. You know, I go fart, and it's like, well, that's fellowship. What's the word acrostics mean? It's so like it's making a poem out of a word. The first letter of each I hate when people do that. That makes me super mad. I just destroyed the Psalms. It's like those crappy teamwork posters they put up at work or something. And then they explain the team. You're like, whatever. It's tough. Yeah.

So like the is it the was it is it the longest psalm? Like, what I think it's the longest one is an acrostic. I think it's a double acrostic. Like, think it goes It went back through it? I think so. Or it repeats it or something. This is so good. We're gonna do it again. No wonder I hate this song backwards. Yeah. No. Good words and backwards. Which also a palindrome? Yeah. I don't know what that means. Eba. Eba's a palindrome. Oh, it's the same forwards and backwards? Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Well, so what did this two out of a thousand mean?

I'm sorry to I like that's what that got me. Just like, I don't even even know what it means. Right. So it's not even it's not even literal. Right? Like, it's not saying in the hold on. Let me let me just bring up the whole I got the chapter, but I don't remember. There we go. What verse was it? Oh, boy. The song of Moses is long. Let's go 32. I just wanna make sure. Okay. Yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna start this. This is the context is Moses is talking to the people. This is kinda like Moses' farewell.

He's he's teaching them and guiding them because they will be moving forward without him. He's not allowed to enter the into the promised land. Is he doing this in a rap? It's very possible. The context to the the written Hebrew word does not denote rap or hip hop, but it's very possible. Alright. So starting at verse 23. I will I will heap disasters upon them. I will spin my arrows against them. They will be wasted from hunger and ravaged by pestilence and bitter plague. I will send the fangs of wild these are people who disobedient to God. I will send the fangs of wild beasts against them with the venom of vipers that slither in the dust. I would say now this is poetic. Like, he doesn't have to say vet like I will attack them. Right? But it but like he's fangs of wild beasts upon the venom of vipers that slither in the dust. Outside the sword will take their children and inside terror will strike the young man and the young woman, the infant, and the gray haired. Wow. And he'd done all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, he really did. That's right. I would have said that I would cut them to pieces and blot out their memory for mankind if I had not dreaded the taunt of the enemy, lest their adversaries misunderstand and say our own hand has prevailed. It was not the Lord who did all this. So this is the point. He's setting them up to say,

as you go into the promised land, you're going to find victory. I need you to recognize that this is not of your own doing. And so then he says, Israel is a nation devoid of counsel with no understanding among them. If only they were wise, they would understand it. They would comprehend their fate. How could one man pursue a thousand or two put 10,000 to flight? So like, reasonably he's going, where have you succeeded with crazy undeniable lies? Yeah. Right. And then did you go, oh, that must have been me. And they're legit outnumbered on the way into the promised land. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They shouldn't they shouldn't have got that as far as they did. Right? Remember, got harassed in the valley of of sin. They got they've they've they've went around. What was the Amorites? They they should've they shouldn't have survived a lot of this already. And so that's what he That's a rhetorical question. That's right. Exactly. Like, duh. And it wasn't really one to 5,002 to 10,000. He's using words to paint a picture. Right? And so then it finishes,

how could one man pursue a thousand or two put 10,000 to to flight unless the rock had sold them, unless the Lord had given them up? For their rock is not like our rock, even our enemies concede. But their vine is from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah, to say the gods they rely on, what what their where their power strings come from. Their grapes are poisonous. Their clusters are better. Their wine is the venom of serpents, the deadly poison of cobras. Have I not stored up these things sealed within my vaults? Vengeance is mine. I will repay. See, we all remember that part. Yeah. Lord does vengeance. I recall that. In due time, their foot will slip for their day of disasters near and their doom is coming quickly. It's a little bit of a rough part, Deuteronomy. But but it's it's weird though because the opposite thing I think that that that other that the fellow is getting at is true. It's not saying, look what we can do with two. It's God going, don't be so foolish to think you can do anything with two. If you're done like, if you're succeeding with two against 10,000,

the the glory belongs to God here. This isn't your own doing. And you are foolish. You lack wisdom to otherwise believe that that's the case. It's to your own detriment and blindness. And to your buddies, the thing I mean, you're saying he's saying, hey, let's pray. And that's so you're you're pushing it the right direction. Yeah. Yeah. That part is right. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So he's not Which is probably what he's getting at. Completely wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Not like, hey, we'll dominate. Although, let's get God on our side. Dear father god, let's get God on this company. It's like the guy from last week. That's right. Yeah. We we we were talking about that that one pastor, maybe it was two weeks ago. Remember the guy, the pastor who's like That's the guy who's spit in the eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Showing the eyes all those buildings and going like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna dominate this city. I'm like, you're you're ridiculous.

Okay. Anyway, that was Deuteronomy 32. Okay. Good. That was great. Okay. I don't I don't I saw one just one quick article, and it says, with all eyes on the Olympics, China threatens house churches. Oh. So the house church movement is relatively big in China, primarily because it doesn't draw near the attention as larger congregations do. You tend to get a larger congregation in China, then the government tends to strong-arm you and either monitor you or try to restrict the types of things that you're going say and do. And so house churches, obviously, you work with a lot more autonomy and flexibility. They're still getting arrested and put in prison and this kind of thing when they get caught. But anyway, it says with the Olympics on, China's after them. The Olympics in Beijing are putting a spotlight on China's human rights abuses, and rightfully so. This is written by a guy named Bob Fu,

which is funny because we've noticed that consistently with a lot of the the Asian Olympians who are in The United States, they have like a very American first name, but then they've retained a very like Asian last name, like Bob Fu,

like f u. I mean, yeah. Right. I'm sure he came out of the womb Bob. Robert P. Food. For sure, did not. There's I mean and and they're always like very nineteen fifties, sixties kind of American names. Like, even there was an ice skater, an American Karen Chen. So like, obviously very, like, clearly Asian last name, and then Karen.

And there was a there were a a few more where like the first name just isn't you're like, no. No. There's no way what happened. There's no way. Anyway, things were so bad for one house church that they fled together to South Korea. Now that same group of Chinese Christians could be repatriated. This is the dangerous reality for the 60 members of the Shenzhen Holy Reformed Church, nicknamed the Mayflower Church. South Korea has chosen to deny these asylum seekers, but they deserve a place in the land of the free and the home of the brave. Oh, he's trying to get them to come here. Oh. In China, pastor Pan Yun Yang and his congregation faced increasing pressure. By 2014, authorities were often interrogating him multiple times a week, urging him to join the Chinese Communist Party approved three self patriotic movement. I don't I don't know. Yet refusing to teach party approved doctrine, pastor Pan resisted. Anyway, sounds like

I don't know. It's not it's not unexpected. Yeah. But there's certain things we can be praying for for those folks. I've told you I've been in a Chinese home church, haven't I? I knew you were in China. Yeah. No. Tell me about it. We went we went to to a house church. Samuel Lamb was the pastor. He'd spent over twenty years in a hard labor prison. So he he was like still I mean, like, he he's an elderly man at this time. And and what am I trying to say? He and he's crushed bones. I mean, was like you could tell he was in pain at times. Yeah. Yeah. But he loved God, and he just kept going. And and I kept you know, at the time, I'm thinking there were like 15 of us in this group, 15 white Americans walking down the street single file

to a secret house location, house church. Yeah. I'm thinking, I don't think it's a secret. Right. Maybe we should split up or something. I think people may have noticed us. But they they had that he was on their radar. So he and they would ask him to stop, and he'd say no, and they put him in prison, and he'd get out. And I think he got crushed between like two carts like the if you can think of like in the old cartoons, you like the the carts with rocks, you know, like little train carts and things. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, the Indiana Jones Cool carts or something. Yeah. And they put them full of here, crushed between two of them before. So he had like several bones broken. And he's just a little guy. And, anyway, yeah, he was he was inspiring, but it was just his little house.

And he had, like like, multiple services throughout the week. He they said over a thousand people were part of this house church, but but it was like a 100 at a time. Yeah. Know? And and they they go in there and they stand. They stand in the bathroom that, like, it's so people were so wanting the gospel Yeah. That that they they they just couldn't keep people away. And then they, you know anyway, it was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. That's super cool. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, not to you don't wanna over elevate it. There's multiple expressions of people living and faithfully serving Jesus throughout the world. There is something that seems very tactical,

right, around house churches in China. Yeah. Like, I mean, I do a house church America. I mean, we could do something else and it's probably too like, don't have to do that. But like house churches in China as a matter of necessity, protection of gospel purity, and a reality that just like is is like somewhat hard to believe. Right? Like, it's almost comical. Actually, we were talking about this with with Russia. So Russia was like, Putin was at the opening ceremonies. Did anybody watch anybody watch any Olympics? No. You take a note. No one's taking any in. No. Okay. So I watched we watched the opening ceremonies. We watched like a few events here and there.

And like, the only diplomat, like major dude that showed up to these these games besides the Xi Jinping, the the Chinese guy was Vladimir Putin. He was there. Yeah. And like like, of course, it was awkward. Like, the guys from Ukraine have to walk by him. And he said and he said they're like yawning and stuff. And you're like, this guy's it's like comically dastardly. Yeah. And like just like there's times, like, we can read maybe so passively,

you know, house church persecution in China. Because like it just seems so movie ish. Like some of the things that you're talking about. Like it's a it's just foreign to us that like somebody's harassing an old man teaching about Jesus in his house. You're like, why would he even bother? But like, they like the Chinese and the Russian, like, they just have a mind to say, look, no stone unturned to to kind of align things in a way that we that we want it to be. And so it's just it's easy to be passive about it, I think, because it feels just so like other otherworldly.

I mean, even we were in his home speaking to him face to face, it was just not real. You know, it it was just it was just like hard to imagine. Like, no. You were you were you know, he was given some of his prison stories, and it's like, I mean, really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because you're right here. I see you now. But and, you know, we would have to be secretive because they were watching, and and yeah. It was fascinating. It's just amazing to me. Yeah. There's a guy that I that I I was actually a minister at the church I go to, here just recently, and I think, Mike, I told you about this guy. He,

was a youth minister in China at, like, an international so people could go there legally, but they're not Chinese people. Oh yeah. And he talks he talked a little bit about home church, and he was doing a Bible study that we were going to, and

he got in the habit of praying with his eyes open because of his time in China. He said and maybe you you can tell this story too, Dan. I don't know if you experienced that, but he said, we we would pray, and if our eyes were closed, people would know that we're praying. So we just got in the habit of, you know, being in a home and praying together, staring at each other, it's it's weird at first. And then

he was doing a a service in big church, people outside of the bible study, and so I was just curious. So I was watching him pray, and he was staring at all of this, so everybody had their heads down. Like, wow. He's for real. He's he's not going away from this. That guy's either totally true or a Southern Baptist and wants to make sure nobody's fooling around. No sleeping. I see those eyes. See that hand. I see that hand. I it's it's funny. Right? It's like little stuff like that where, like, you would catch, like, your when you're trying to to raise kids and you're trying to teach them how to pray or whatever, and like your church is praying and your kids over there with their eyes wide open, you're like, stop it. Yeah. You burn your eyes. Be respectful. Do better than you're doing. Come out of your head like this. You know? And here's here's a guy that's been suffering for Christ for twenty years, wide eyed, looking at everybody. And by the way,

I mean it's just weird like the nuances of the parts of our faith that we deem important or like you want to impress upon either a new believer or your kids or whatever, and you're like, China don't care about this. Right? They get to sneak into church. Mean, you know how excited my kids would be if we had to clandestine our way there? They're bored. We gotta drive regular. Think if we had to like change two clothes and and like jump in a trunk or something, they'd be like, this is great. Yeah. Let's go church. Now if they catch me, I won't see you for twenty years, kids. Yeah. You can't tell that part. Head bitten them out. Well, I mean, just a reminder,

what like, is there ways to excuse me. It's hard to help underground churches. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're not like giving to like a big box and going, hey, we wanna buy Bibles. Here's $10,000. Go live your life. It's hard to give to give that kind of thing. And so I think generally the feedback I've gotten from, you know, organizations that are trying to help underground type of churches is generally like, hey, your money isn't gonna do much here. We don't need it. Don't try to ship us Bibles or anything. You're just gonna get everybody in trouble. Like, just pray. Just pray. And then frankly, lot it was funny. You talked to a lot of those folks in in Iran and China and places like that, and they're like, we're praying for America. Yeah. They they look out and go,

we just we feel like you guys are under under a lot of pressure over there. And we're like, well, I was thinking the same. I'm just a lot more comfortable thinking about it. I didn't know kidding. Because like sometimes their blessing is that, like, they at least know their enemy is well defined. Right? Like, know exactly what they're up against and they know what they can get away with and what they can't. And like, when when you have a government that promotes freedom, which are, I mean, good on the on on its outskirts, then as far as the law is concerned, everything is permissible.

Right? Even even moral moral issues are things that that Jesus would normally say, look, that's not what's best for you. We allow as part of the freedom of our government, you know? And so like, I suppose at least when you have more of a dictatorship or a communist type government,

I mean, at least you know the whole thing's phony. You exactly what's going on and why and they'll come right up to your door and put you in jail and be done with it. But they'll also but here, we'll promote people a lifestyle or a thought process that will eventually destroy the people involved and will give them financial backing and and positive encouragement and go, yeah. You want some land? We'll help you. You know, that's that's sad. Right? That's that's a lot harder to deal with. Yeah. Actually, I think that that is quarrelsome in that It's it's weird to look at somewhere like China and go and and say it's a blessing that your enemy is well defined.

But like it, I totally get what you're saying. Like, you can pick out the dastardly as it walks down the down the mile, whereas a lot of the the temptations or probably the temptations to like laziness or kind of being drafted into what feels like a gift, but that comes with a poison.

It's a lot harder to recognize and frankly a lot easier to kind of roll into in a situation like most western countries, to be honest. Actually, it's a thought process that I think probably differs wildly between cultures. Right? Like a lot of people I have a lot of discussions on on people who want to know what the Bible says you can't do. And I'm like, the Bible does a spends a lot of work saying what you can do and what is best. And like, it would be a complete waste of time to spill ink on all the things that are not the best. So God sets forth a way that he designed a world and Jesus backs that up and says this is how I was God has designed you to live and how this world is to be done and done well, both for your joy and the Father's glory. And then we go, but he didn't speak specifically to this thing. Can I do it? And Jesus goes, I didn't even talk about that. I told you what was best. That takes one page. Right? If I have to list out everything that's not best, then that Bible turns into 8,000,000 pages long. Right? So stop worrying about what's not best and focus on what Jesus says is best. And and those are the things that make it really simple where it's where it's really handy to have

some things to find in front of you. Right? And so since our enemy can take a really foggy existence because it exists in the not best category, Then you go then you start weighing and measuring and go, well, is that kinda not best? Like, what's the weight of the not best? Right? Are we in the upper echelons, lower echelons? And and Jesus goes, it's all not best. Yeah. It's all mess. Yeah. Walk away from that. We don't want that. Yeah. Alright. Hey. You're listening to Life From The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far this evening. We really do appreciate it. Before you get too far on the show, just a reminder that if you hate the show, and I think that's I think that's understandable if you've taken in any parts of it, and you wanna tell us about it, use the Life From The Path. Bow eyes and lower complaint line. That's 51551700855155170085. That's a phone call or the text message. In fact, I like the text message better. I never get to listen to messages to be honest. I don't know. Text messages ruin me. So if you leave a message that's more than like 15 I'm just have a hard time getting to it. So I mean if you love that go ahead but otherwise again use the (515) 517-0085 call or text the Life in the Path Bob Eisenhower

complaint line and we love to hear from you as to what about the show is bothering you today. Think that would be great. Alright. So, Mike, we're gonna get to the to prime question. Prime question is, are we should we be measuring when it comes to the Christian faith, and you're try you're trying to look at your life, you look at the health of your church, look at the health of your walk with Jesus.

One, is it right to measure? If you if it is, what are the measures? If it's not, how do you you know, is there no semblance of how to know, or that you ever look around and take stock of how are things going? Yeah. So so let's start with the personal stuff. Right? Like, why do you want to measure? Why would anybody want to do that? Because they they want to know they need some sort of benchmark or barometer as to whether they're succeeding.

So would we say, like, on the whole, do we think that God doesn't provide that through prayer or

peace or it's a good question. I don't know how I think God provides that. Right? Because at the end of the day, if you're trying to say that, like, I want to measure like, my gut instinct is is is I I know how many kids I have show up at youth group on Wednesday. Yep. When I don't have that many kids, I go, what happened? I'm slightly disappointed. Where'd them kids go? Yeah. Not really because, like, you know, we take up an offering and more people lose more money. We don't take up an offering. Right? I'm just I don't know why they're not here, and I'm sad because maybe Jesus had something to say to them today and they missed it. Right? So my benchmark is, I really wish you would have been there today. This thing that God had to say, maybe it was for you.

And so I I count and I measure and I go, well, we're supposed to have 24. We only had 19. We missed five. Maybe this was a been a banner day for them. Crap. I'm now I'm disappointed. Less than has occurred. Right? And so same thing when, you set up, some times that you talk to folks or you have an accountability group or whatever and you expected some type of transformation maybe to happen or some fellas that you were trying to help disciple and say, hey, let's get on a bible reading plan and talk about what our marriages look like and stuff like that. And then six, eight months later, you're like, boy, feel like I'm just talking to the breeze here. Yep. Right? Everyone's like every week they show up and go, wow, didn't get to the bible reading. You're like, what what do you mean you didn't get to it? And so here we are. You know, you keep steady with it and six, eight months later, I I don't know. Maybe you're not making a whole lot of ground. And so you wanna kinda measure that and go, am I wasting my time? Am I doing good things? How long does it take for God to do a thing? Well, that really depends on a bunch of other stuff. So all this stuff being combined,

it's it's just stuff I was I was thinking about and going, how can you properly measure, if you should be measuring at all, like, where you're putting your time, the things that you're investing in through, the power of the Holy Spirit, and, like, how do you keep if if you're not going to measure or even if you are, what's some decent benchmarks into figuring out if you're even where you're supposed to be?

Yeah. So maybe maybe let's start with, start with the extremes so that you can find your way in. Is there a risk in measuring the wrong types of things? So let's how could you do it wrong? If you're gonna measure things, in what instances or what examples would it be, hey, man. That's that's probably not helpful. Like, would these be examples of things where,

like, these could be earthly successes and not necessarily god successes and so you're you're pining on the wrong thing. Yeah. Or so, like, let let's say let's go to your example. Hey, I decided to hold a bible study. I feel like it's important. I wanna study the word, and I wanna share it with other people. And, God sends, I don't six people. And for six months, you're you're teaching in front of six people. It to me, the wrong measurement is to go, why aren't there 20 people here? Like, you got six. You got peep six people who are coming for six months listening to somebody teach teach the word. Like, what are you bummed out about? And so, like, that that to me is like, think that measure measuring is detrimental, at its most extreme view because it says I'm not satisfied

with the number of people God has me ministering to. Yeah. So now on the opposite side of that, there's a risk there's all kinds of guy here. So this is we'll go back to the house church world. So all kinds of guys who run house churches got six people in it, and you're related to five. And then you got the one guy who's just he lives two street two, like, two houses down, and he he refused to go anywhere else. He wants to to church. That that's it. That's my motivation. This is close. I would like to walk. That now that guy goes 20 and he's still talking to the same six people. And it's not because god has, like, not sent people. It's because he doesn't know how to teach a word correctly.

And he's abrasive. And his house stinks. I don't know. Like, whatever. There's all kinds of things where you're like, do you shut your eyes and go, whatever I have must be what God sent and and he will bless it. Like that's not always true. And so closing your eyes and going and and refusing to have humility and learn from your situation of which you might actually be able to to reach more people or do a better job and the things that you're trying to faithfully serve God. Like, that's on the opposite end of where, like, you will miss out by just going whatever I'm doing, I do it and the Lord will bless. Because, like, there's all kinds of people who just stink at what they do. They're not good representations of the representatives of Jesus, and they never bothered to ask. Hey. Am I doing this well? Is there a reason, like, people come and then they don't stay? Like, we should totally check that out. Yeah. So so it kinda goes back to that conversation we're having about the Chinese fellows. It's like, it is I I think one of the major foundations here is knowing what God has you doing.

Because then you're not worried about measurements that aren't yours to take. Right? So I if I, for example, I can tell you with complete certainty that, God has me teaching youth group at in my town, and I know that. So whether five people show up or 50 people show up, it doesn't matter. Yep. My job is to hold youth group and teach it. That's all that's all I know. And, like, there do you know how much comfort there is in that? Like, to know that week after week after week, I don't have to come up with a scheme. I don't have to hope that, like, this is the I I get lost in this. I do this poorly, by the way. This is me, saying that, like, I sometimes I do get concerned about the numbers, and sometimes I do look ahead and go, I don't know if this particular chapter of Matthew is gonna this ain't gonna sit real well. Right? But, like, I can always rely back on the and be confident in that I know exactly what God has me doing Yep. And I gotta change nothing. And I don't have to count anything. Nothing. Except for I need to know how much soda to bring, right, to make sure people got the soda. But that's it. And so,

like, to maybe wrap up with some of the parts that I was thinking, like, if you're confident in the thing that God has you doing, if you submitted this thing to Jesus and said, look, I'm open. What do you have me doing? And he goes, I got something real real tuned up for you. This is what I want you to do. Then I think you stop counting. That's that's where I'm at, is I think you stop going, this is my army to count. This is God's army to count, and I won't be found, getting caught doing it. And so if you are faithful to the thing that God has you doing, God will handle the ends. Yes. So that goes back to our evaluations.

Remember when we were talking about false teachers, we said what are what's the sniff test? Like, if you don't know every point of doctrine, is there anything where you can move, like, a good sniff test that says, hey, you should watch out. If if the thing that they're saying doing or whatever elevates man, I'd be careful that it's not false like, it's it's a false teaching or it's heresy. If it's something whatever they're saying or doing points back to and elevates Yahweh, then, yeah, then it's probably not. And so the question is is, like, why are you counting? If you're counting for your own vindication, for your own feeling of superiority, your own confidence, then, yes, I think you're missing out. Oh, your own confidence. That's tough.

That's tough. Because here's the thing is is I think if if we were gonna use such a strict criteria like that, think there's probably a lot of churches that promote church and not as much of promoting Yahweh. Yeah. And church is still people.

True. But, like, again, I the the that's the problem with the measurements because these are all heart issues. Right? Because if I say I the the reason remember, we talked about this is, you got the gang of Methodist that shows up to, like, the, the house building event or something, and they got the, hey. We're with this Methodist church. They're not some of them might be going, hey, man. I just want you to know that our church is cool. But, really, what they're thinking is is, like, I want people to know that that we came out to love them, and I want to associate it with a name so that when they wanna go somewhere or where they remember where god's people were out, that them, those guys in the shirts, I remember they were from that Methodist church. That's what they're thinking. Yes. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I it's it's you can take the same action with a different heart, and you you can have one that's, like, wildly successful and one where you're, like, you're trying to build your own kingdom and it's failing.

And so that's the hard part is that, like, I can't tell easily. I can't look at Nathaniel's motives and go, this is why he's doing the thing. Is he building his own kingdom or is he building God's? Well, sometimes we can't even look at our own motives. Yeah. I mean, I am am I am I counting to see that I have all 100 sheep or do I get to 99 and say, oh, Crap. One's gone. I better go looking. Right. You know what? I've I've I've got a I've got a job to do. Or am I like, yeah. But the one down the street has 90, and I've got 100. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Right. We can lose one and still be on top. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, so this is always where you get I I think it's very it feels very, what's the right word I want? I wanna say organic, but that's not the word I want. It feels very hippy dippy to be like, we don't count anything.

But, like, I would notice if one of my kids was missing. Why would I notice it? Because I counted. I counted it. And I say There's an empty chair. The car is supposed to be full. Where's that one kid? And so and it's totally fine. But my heart isn't I want people to know I'm a parent of a mildly sized family. Or I

wanna go, where's my kid? I love my kid. Where's he at? Or or as a notion of self reflection. So, like, I I I do master a house church. It is generally a pretty small gathering. I do certainly notice when people aren't there. Like, it's very obvious. Even in in in, you know, bigger churches sometimes you can get away with because the lights are low, and you don't know how many people are there. Like, I know when no one's in there. And, like and it probably causes me to go a a proper thing, which is, am I am I well connected to these folks?

Am does does our does their relationship with this community feel like the kingdom of God, or does it feel passive? And is there anything that we could be doing about that and as we think about them and the relationship or anything that we can do for them? Am I encouraging with true things about the word? I don't own whether people show up to Sunday morning. It's not my gig. It's I don't I don't live their lives for them. But, like, it is always a good spot to go. And, like, actually, I I thought about this. I was teaching Ezra over the last, number of weeks, and, like, the first few they're just boring. Like, there's parts of Ezra that are boring, even to me. And, like, I love this stuff. And, like, I was it caused me to think, you know, am I making the word of God boring? Am I like, am I not spending enough time here? Am I not? And I I think I came to the conclusion that I wasn't the genealogy itself was a little bit boring. Yeah. And and so it was fine, but it it rightfully I looked at it and went, just make sure.

Just make sure that, like, if the word of God in this particular section is is something powerful and awesome and I'm approaching it in such a way that it feels boring and lame, then I want that refined in me, like, directly. And and then again, as long as it causes your heart to do the right things and I come to the conclusion that that wasn't the case, well then okay, great. Then the counting was beneficial. It wasn't self grandizing. It was am I serving the Lord rightly by doing some sort of measurement of some kind. Yeah. So so I think I I mean, you could fairly say that, like, all counting is not bad and all counting is not good. Right? It's just like just about everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, things could be god honoring and things can be not for the good of anybody.

And so it it does come down to a heart issue. Now how do you I mean, if you wanted to follow that trail, then how do you make sure your heart's right with this thing? Oh, wait, Dan. Did you have a thought? Well, go ahead. Go ahead. I I got I have something, but I'll can No. You start because I was gonna go and hope something came to me within the few weeks. Seconds. I was gonna say it was slightly on a different well, not same topic. During COVID, I I'm in a number of of, like, preacher groups on social media and stuff, and it was fascinating to me to see that the biggest I mean, while people were fighting on mask or vaccinate, know, whatever all the different stuff people fight were fighting on, the preachers were like so many of them that were broken over the fact that their attendance had fallen. Mhmm. You know, and I thought, how about you're broken that people are, like, scared? I mean, maybe Right. You know? Right. How how about, you know, like, my myself, I am at some point just plain stopped

recording attendance. Mhmm. I thought because I can't trust myself with a number. Right. I'd see a number go, man. I'm really I'm really upset. And I go, okay. You're you're focused on the wrong thing. Yes. So I intentionally we dropped counting everything. And then a few months later, it's like, okay. I need to start counting again to see who what sheep are gone. Right. You know, some are just gonna be gone, and and some just need some some just got lazy. And Yeah. You know, and and and it started going through that process. But it was just fascinating to to to see the the lamenting of these preachers because it goes, oh, the attendance is really down and blah blah blah blah. And I thought, that's it? That that's that's your goal in life is is Right. You know, I mean, wow. How empty. No wonder the people in out overseas are praying for the American church because we're we we are worried about the wrong stuff. That's right. We're not worried about how their family's doing and how they're oh, so your your cousin died. That's man, we we should be with you. It's like, we're just upset that you haven't been in church. That's right. I'm not gonna talk to you. I mean right. Yeah. It's it's it was fascinating and sad. There's actually quite a bit of that. Yeah. That's not that's not a low amount of things where like, hey, if you're not gonna show up on Sunday,

then, you know, we don't have anything to offer You don't wanna be part of this family, fine. And like like, God's heart is not that. God's heart's like, you've always been part of the family. We just haven't seen you forever. What's happening? Right. Or like like, can can we can we lament over the fact that, like, by all reasonable appearances, if if church attendance or connection is down by half

since COVID, that, like, half the people attending our churches had a relationship that was what feels so easily severed from their church community. Like, that's a that's a lamentable thing. It's also a a blessing. Like, now we know what we're dealing with. Mhmm. So I think there's a blessing in there. Yeah. Right. The enemy that you know. That's right. Like, I and I could see it's like, oh, I thought I thought that was closer than that. Now I know where I can focus. And so, like, eyes open, counting, measuring, I think these are okay when you're counting to know what to to lament,

not to know how how that what you think that says about you, about your church brand, about whether other people will come because of this thing that's going on over there. That's the wrong that's the wrong focus. So what about the I'm kinda jumping in here. I'm I'm hearing a lot of discussion around the leaders. Mhmm. What about the the sheep?

So if I'm measuring something, I'm I'm not preaching. I'm not leading a house church. I'm not doing that. So Mike, you talked about before we started all this off, like, I read the Bible twenty minutes a day, seven days a week. Is that is that good enough for me if I'm measuring that? And so we know each other. You know I like to I like to look at data, and I like to measure things, and I like to

gauge that on am I being successful as whatever I'm doing. And so is there is there an okay thing there for a Jesus follower, a Christian to say, I'm probably not doing this enough.

And maybe maybe you pray about it. Yeah. I mean, I but I mean, I think everyone's had this experience where you're like, god, just show me, I feel like I need to be reading my bible more. How much? And you know god's like, I didn't answer that stupid question. Yeah. That's a dumb question. I'm not gonna answer that. Yeah. And so, like, yeah. There's I think we I like to

man, don't even know if I have a good answer here. Yeah. So here here's here what I would say is that, like, again, it's I was still thinking, Ben. That's right. You say, uh-oh. So after it. A lot of our a lot of our lot of our goals are self imposed. They're arbitrary. Right? Like reading the Bible daily is not a biblical prescription.

Now, those guys were praying daily. They were might even they might recite good Jewish boy would recite the Shema to himself in the morning. Right? So like scriptures, like flowing through them. But like that's not the same thing as, hey, gotta have my forty five minutes of bible time. Otherwise, I'm not walking faithfully. So like a lot of our things are they're arbitrary. It doesn't mean they're bad. Right? It's if we say, look, I know what it feels like for me to spend focused time in, you know, with Jesus and it's not a a chapter. Like, I know what it is to duck in. A chapter feels like it's tick box to me, to be honest. And so if I'm if I'm gonna sit down and read, I'd rather read three chapters every other day than I would to see what chapter a day because I'll treat the chapter a day flippantly. And I know that about myself. Some people can dive in and out. Some people can, like, take in and, like, read one verse and they can sit and soak on it for ten minutes and they're, like, refreshed. It builds the whole day and they can handle themselves. The I think the spirit will work with you on that.

So so in general, I do think it's a loosey goosey. And I think it is it can be different. However, I think it is also okay to say, because actually I was thinking about this this lately, is on balance. Let's say I spend, you know, three or four days a week. I'm in let's say I'm reading three chapters. Maybe that's ten, fifteen minutes or something at a time, three or four days a week. I think to myself, oh, you know, okay. Maybe maybe on par with better maybe better than most. Who knows? I'm reading quite a bit of scripture. But then I I was thinking about, though, that fifteen minutes in relation to how often am I scrolling my phone, how much time did I spend, I don't know, staring at the ceiling Taking a poop? Yeah. Looking at the cat. Yeah. Looking at the cat taking a poop. Yeah.

While taking a poop. Yeah. Right? And so Why are we both pooping in here? I mean, I have a window in the bathroom. The cat knocks and go, hey. Got me. Yeah. They told him, take your box out of here. So, like so then the notion of the count of how long although was okay, I thought relatively speaking, how does this sit in level of my priorities? And I thought,

you know, this doesn't reflect honor to me. I don't think it does. And I wasn't I wouldn't have missed it except for I made a data comparison. Comparison. And, again, I think it's alright. I think the data doesn't own you, but I think the count can influence you. I think it allows you to some way to put your world into a bucket and and to to stratify it a bit and go, does this sniff right? If it does, then no problem. As a matter of fact, like data is always telling you a story. Like, this data's job is is like you put all that stuff together and you look at it in kind of different buckets and pictures and comparisons and you go, one, do I care about this? And two, what does it say about me that I may not notice? This is where data is awesome. Data oftentimes tells you a story that you wouldn't tell yourself. You didn't recognize it. And then so, like, I would if someone said, hey, man. Do you probably you love you love looking at the phone more than you look love taking in the Lord's word? I'm like, no way, man. No. I love the Lord's word. How dare you? Yeah. And then if I looked at the if I looked at the time, just to get in data in my mind, go, sure don't feel like as close as I was hoping. Bummer. And so and so I need to look at so sorry. Long winded answer. Yeah. I think it's fine. I think I think it doesn't own you. I think you we gotta be careful that we don't serve arbitrary things. But certainly, again, measuring and counting, all it does is allow you to evaluate

is what I said is important as important to me as I think. And am I behaving in in a way that aligns with what I actually believe? Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm for it as long as it doesn't control you. I was just thinking, like, I I I can't remember the last time we were talking about this, but we're talking about, like, the the Bible wasn't available to, you know, most folks. It wasn't an everyday have it, you know, in your house kinda item. Right. The whole church shared Paul's letter Right. And only for, like, a week, and then they passed it on to somebody else. And then it's You gotta hold something like some nerd Somebody memorizes. Yeah. Ted, you know this is on you. Tell us what it says.

And so, I I think about it a lot because, like, a lot of the advice I used to give when I was younger was, look, you need to spend, time praying, and you need to spend time reading the Lord's word. I think both of those things are true. And as I get older, I think I look around and I go, I mean, I I find a lot of folks that like, yes, I gotta get back to this Bible reading. Yes, I gotta spend time praying. I think that the praying, I'm gonna elevate just a little bit more. I think we are soaked,

in scripture more than anybody has been in history. Right? But we have less outpouring of it. Less, it doing work. Right? Through like like, I'm I'm not gonna say that it's not changing people because, it is. But, like, it seems like it's more focused on,

that's the measurement for me whether I'm doing well or not and not whether I'm outpouring that to somebody. I'm only saying that because I've been guilty of this. Right? Like, I spent so many years focused on how much prayer time and how much Bible reading I was doing, and, like, I neglected at all that I was telling anybody about this great thing I knew. You know, like, was just crafting it in my own little world. You know? And so I I don't know if you can actually add that to account, but I'm it's certainly something to add to the prayer time. Well, like in in Act Acts six when the apostles were you know, we're not meeting all the needs and and they said we'll pick out six guys, that what they said they were gonna devote themselves to the ministry, the prayer, the ministry, the word. Right? Right? Yep. It's like at some point,

okay, it's great you're reading it every day, but why aren't you sitting down with coffee and talking it with someone else? Yeah. That's what you're saying. Yes. Yes. Yes. At some point, you share it. I mean, otherwise, why did you even read it? What what could it Faith with that works? Yes. Yeah. Well, and, like, even if and the question is is that, like, as much as I I might say, we we're we're after gospel transform transformation not behavior modification. We I usually say that in the context of, hey, man, don't beat people up with the word of God so that they stop doing something without a heart change. Yeah. That's also true for how we engage the stuff that feels like positive faithfulness. Like, it's behavior modification to go, I forced myself to read this bible today.

That's a completely different conversation than someone going, I met Jesus today in the scriptures. I wanted to meet actually, when I look at my I started the New Year, and I'm like, well, what do I wanna change? And I thought I wanna read my bible more, but I don't wanna be read my bible more just because I wanna check it off. I Jesus places pages are soaked with the life and words of Jesus, and I want to be in them more. I I need them. I desire them, and I'm not orient orienting or prioritizing my life in such a way that reflects how much I know I want it. That's the gap. I just don't wanna show someone a calendar. I don't wanna hold the calendar up to Jesus and say, look, I read your book. Like

Mhmm. Like and that that's the and but that's the thing. It's the it's gonna look if you're if you're peeping in my window on a on a Thursday morning, it's gonna look the same. You're not gonna know whether I'm filling out the calendar or whether I wanna meet Jesus. That's a heart that's a heart question for me. But the behavior is gonna look the same, but that's gospel transformation, not just behavior modification. Mhmm. Alright. So sum it up. It's alright to count. It's totally alright. It counts and measures are totally fine. Just like anything else, your if where your behavior

matches the heart of Jesus and aims for the growth of the kingdom and sees the world the way God does, then the things that you're doing with that, like counting, measuring, weighing, collecting, are probably totally fine. Things of which you're trying to either posture as if you're something that you're not, things that lack humility like, hey, I'm gonna teach in this this church for six year for twenty years to six people in my house. And, like, if some if a brother came and told me, hey, man, you're not doing it well, and that's why no one stays, or you're fickle, or don't listen, or you refuse to answer any questions, and that's why people aren't coming, and you refuse to hear it, then you're building your own kingdom, not God's. And so if you're doing it with, you know, if you're doing with you without humility, if you're doing it something that focuses on you, builds your kingdom, makes you feel good, makes you feel bad,

then the weights and measures are probably not serving God. They're trying to serve you. And, like, anytime you're trying to serve you and not serve God, you're gonna run into a problem regardless of whether it's accounting problem, or some other kingdom building that you're trying to do. Yeah. And and and I suppose, to circle back to, like, from a church perspective, you if you're a leader in a church, you should be concerned that you, could be leading, yourself a little bit astray on this thing. I would get I would get at least three to four people praying on that, that that you see things correctly and that God speaks to them if you get a little bit curvy. Yeah. I do find and this is where, like, community Christian community is great. Like, you get, a pastor that's, like, a little bit unique, but, like, it's why it's helpful Dan's in the room. And there's other people that I that, like, other pastors that I know and will meet with. Because, like, if you hear them talk, they're having the same. They're they're looking at the world going, shoot, man.

Those those guys aren't coming back. They're gone. And I didn't realize that it our what like, our communal relationship was so thin, and I'm and I I mourn it. And it helps it helps you take in the word correctly just like, again, not pastors, but like your ability to meet if you're meeting and praying with other Christians and the accountability is good for this type of thing too or just, like, this is what Monday nights are beneficial for me. I hear other people who love Jesus who are trying to follow him talking about what it looks like, and it keeps me grounded. It keeps me humble and it wreck help keeps me from looking at my life in isolation like I'm living my own personal world. Jesus had a like, told everybody to go out and do the same types of things, and so we should be able to learn and share and grow from each other. And so I think that is important, which means isolation is a real risk to that. Whether you're a pastor or whether you're, like, the person that goes, yeah. You know, since COVID, I'm a little bit I don't know if I wanna go back, and so we've just been churching at home. You know what? Dig down house church, like, that's not what you're doing. You're actually just avoiding. You're not in community. That's

a risk to you. Yeah. That's not good for you. Yeah. That's not, oh, hey. My church will be disappointed. You lost me. It's like that's a isolation is always a risk to people, whether it's groups of people, like small groups of people or individuals specifically. Right? Dig the guy who's like buck wild nude and scratching himself out out in the graveyards that Jesus healed. Like, that guy's in isolation. He's away from everybody else. There's nothing that that grounds him as a human. He's taking his own counsel, and it's driving him nuts. And so, like, anytime you're taking your own counsel because that's the only counsel available, like, you gotta rectify that. Community helps to solve those types of things, and you're putting yourself at risk by doing that. The more you know.

I'm gonna count that. Are you gonna change anything after that conversation? You're read your bible more? What are you thinking? Yeah. I no. Actually, I was thinking. I I do. I do think I, for that for that very reason. I like, the the more the more it brings the more it brings to bear in my mind, I think what did I

I had a few minutes here and there. It was a it was a long day of work, and I was in meetings and talking to people most of the day. There's part of me that thought I was gonna do some push ups. I'm like, hey, man. I'm gonna get, twenty minutes. I'm gonna do some I'm gonna do some pushies in this thing. I did not do any pushies. I was busy. But then that's twenty minutes. I also haven't read my bible today. I haven't taken it. I thought, well, shoot, man. Maybe bible first. Then push it. And then push it. Gotta I don't know what a righteous amount of pushies is, but I feel like it's in the 60. 60? Yeah. I don't even I think I could do so. I mean, not at once. I'll do 20 and take a breather. Nathaniel, how many pushies should I do at one time? Until it hurts.

Oh, so even if that's like eight, that's no problem? Yeah. Can you do pull can you do a pull up? You try to pull up, Ridley? It's been like a month or so, but yeah. How many? One. Yeah. Wait. Yeah. I think I can do one. Check that off my list. Maybe two. I can do one of those jumping ones you can do at the playground when your kids around like where you jump up onto a bar that's taller than you and use that inertia to kinda pull up and do one. And then as soon as I go down, I go, ah, still got a time of shooting. Biceps.

Okay. Hey. Hey. We're on we're on fire except for Nathaniel did the the dragon blow into the microphone. Sorry. Let's give some advice while we're topping the heap. Okay. Ready? Yep. Dear life from the path. I've been married to my husband, quotes Derek, for thirty two years. We consider each other to be our best friend, except he refuses to allow me to see or use his iPad. That seems like a best friend behavior. Sure. He has it password protected. Derek and I have been together since high school and have maintained a very good relationship. I'm not sure why it bothers me so much that he refuses to let me see his text messages or emails. I don't think he's cheating, but my intuition is sending me warning signals that this can't be good. Should I be concerned, and should I confront him? Okay. I would I would ask only probably

one contextual question. Otherwise, I, I feel very strongly about this. Is this is this tip is this recently and and it feels like for a short amount of time, or does this seem like very long time? Because if he's trying to hide a cruise from you or something. Yeah. I feel like it's for the the it's it's been going on a while. Okay. That's what I that's how it feels to me. Okay. I'm very much against this. Yeah. It should be happening open really. He he's hiding porn. Dan, Dan, do not use the phrase they're supposed to have an open relationship. Not in the way that means. It came off differently what you intended.

Okay. Dan thinks Maybe he's got a lot of friends in the neighborhood. Okay. Dan says there's pornography on that iPad. Yeah. Don't even think it's an affair. I think it's just porn. Yeah. And he's embarrassed. Neither one would know it. Yeah. Not embarrassed enough to stop looking at it though. Yeah. Yeah. Embarrassed enough to put a pin pad on there so people can't see him looking at That's that's the porn industry as a whole. We're all like, I don't want other people to know, but I do like it. I do like naked people. Yeah. Okay. I was saying, yeah. I, yeah. I think it they've got a Taylor, can we just take a quick poll here? It's just a yay or nay. Does this man have porn on this iPad, Dan? Yes. Nathaniel? Absolutely. Steve? Most probably. Yep. I'm a yay. Yeah. My my wife knows all my passwords to everything I've got, and she can at any time look at anything, and I don't care. Healthy living. So some some guy like, my office computer was I was having I lost something. And this IT guy was here in the church, and he goes, don't wanna look at yourself. I took at anything. I don't there's there's nothing that I have to hide here. Yeah. It's like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's right. If it's not an affair, then why would he also hide his text text massages then? I think I think it's

she's assume here's because she's a woman. She's assuming it's text messages and emails he's hiding. That was the complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Mike goes, cause she's a woman. That's why. Here's the thing. The first thought in her mind is is like if I was gonna do something secretive that I would have to hide Yeah. She doesn't go, it would be porn. A dude goes, it would be porn. Yeah. That's true. That's true. She says relationship problem. We say probably Probably porn. Naked ladies. Also, relationship problem. Yeah. Also. Also. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. She's a porn. I think that's just a that's just an It's called pulling a Nathaniel. I I think it's just a perspective where she thinks it's text messages and emails of something nefarious and like, yeah. I I doubt it. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm kind of interested is,

if she would have said what he like, when she said, hey. Why can't I look in here? I mean, certainly, he he offered something up. Yeah. Is it a work iPad? Like, you can't look at work stuff. My wife has a work phone. I don't think she cares if I look at it, but I don't because it's Yeah. You wouldn't be real dumb. Weird about it though is like, hey, can I search through your workflow? I would open I would open like, if my wife wanted to look at my work computer, I would o unlock it for her. If she said, hey, I'm just curious. Can I take a look? I wouldn't give her my work password. That's a problem. But, like, I I type it in and open it up and say, just let me know when it tries to go to sleep, and I'll open it again. Okay. So I gave my I gave my kids and my wife

my work phone password. Right? Because it's my my main phone. They changed all their passwords to the same password. So I'm like, this is exactly why I don't give passwords out because you can't. I don't know if this is like a security breach of some kind. But anyway I like that one. Yeah. The way it moves. But I I I here's the thing is is is to answer her question, yeah, this is a problem. I I there's there's there's nothing ever beneficial

about secrecy. There there just isn't. Now the the the the cruise thing or whatever. Like but, yeah, I gotta be honest. Like, I'm so I'm so trained myself on this. Even I have a hard time, like, buying a a gift for my wife because I, like, have cash in my pocket that's not in the bank account. It just feels real real dirty to me. Like, I'm like, I just this feels like I I got I should just put it the bank account so everybody can see it. And then she so she never gets surprise gifts, which are good because I'm a bad gift buyer.

But overall, like, it's it's not that big of a deal, to live honestly. And, yeah, you should worry about you should have a concern if someone's not willing to live honestly. There you should be able to look through anybody's, especially your husband's

phone, computer, dresser drawers, or mail, car, whatever. I mean, it's shit. Everything's unlocked and open all the time because you live a life of integrity that says, yeah, who I am is who I say I am. So go ahead. Look at whatever you want. Yep. Okay. Secular's advice.

Secular says, has Derek always been this territorial, or is his secretiveness something fairly recent? If it's the latter, then your intuition is telling you something important and you should be concerned. Before you, quotes, confront him, ask yourself what you intend to do if your worst fears are realized and be prepared for that. Once that's done, tell your husband what you have told me that hiding his text and emails has made you afraid he has been straying, and you need reassurance.

PS. In the thirty three years my late husband and I were together, I never ever felt the need to look at his wallet, his mail or email or phone because he never gave me a reason to. He was always very open and told me I was welcome to. The reverse was also true. Neither of us kept secrets from from the other. This is what I would wish for you and Derek. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the thing. You start hiding one thing, you end up hiding 10 things, and then you're gonna hide the thing that you're hiding in other other way. Like, there's just no way to live. Like, what you're totally missing out on, the freedom that comes with being able to be open and honest with one person. It doesn't have to be every but you don't have to show everybody all your stuff. Right? But this is the person. You agreed to live in this per with this person in this person's life, sharing your lives together. Like, don't don't miss out on the the benefit that you get, for being being able to be totally open and honest with someone. I know that feels like it's constraining you. It's not. It's a freedom. And so take advantage of the freedom. Don't don't don't compromise that.

This one's weird. I mean, weird, but kinda tough. Okay. You're life from the path. My wife and I have been married for forty years. Fifteen years ago, she was diagnosed with cancer and given eighteen months to live. Well, she is still around. Because of the illness and the experimental medications, she was bedridden, and her dementia grew steadily worse. Left with no other options because of problems with insurance, I placed her into a nursing facility six years ago. I am six years ago. I'm still at an age in at which I have, I hope, many active years ahead of me. I visit her often, but I have need for companionship that she obviously can no longer fulfill. I'm friends with a few women, usually friends of friends, and from time to time have the urge to become closer. I go out to dinners, music venues, art shows, whatever. I'm torn about whether to live my remaining days in loneliness or pursue the possibilities. Is it wrong to want companionship in my situation?

At what point should I explain my situation without scaring off a nice lady friend? Your opinion would be helpful to me as another perspective. It's got some layers. At at what point? Well, day one day one is when you say you're married. I mean yeah. You know? Yeah. I I think that's sad. It's very sad. I here's the thing. It's like there's no doubt it's tough. It's just not insurmountable. And it's also actually, it's funny. Like, people, take the same tact when they do some things that really screw up their marriages or life when they go, like, the temptation was too great. It wasn't, though. Right. It wasn't. Yeah. You could have walked past it and taken a breath and had a glass of water and then

Yeah. And played the lottery or something. Like, do something else with Just about anything. And, like, there's no doubt, like, this is sad and this is gut wrenching. Yeah. And I totally get that part. But but the the vow is is until death. That's correct. So you that's what I would do. I would do until you No one take it. You weren't forced up there. Yeah. Right? One said you had to say, here's the promise I'm making between you, me, and God, and I'm gonna I'm gonna be with my word and, like, tell death do us part. Even though she doesn't even know it. It hasn't happened yet. That's not the point. Your word it's the integrity thing. Your word means something because you said it. And I get it. It's sad. There's a lot of other sad stuff going on too. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people got some a lot of sad stuff going on and as as as

relatable as I think that people could, understand the situation that you're in. Yeah. The answer is no. Yeah. I I yeah. I think that's the right way to think about it is, like, although I can certainly understand that it is indeed difficult. Mhmm. There is not an answer that makes it not difficult. Like, it means you have to continue to walk through a difficult thing, not that there's an option for this to be a lot easier. And

yeah. Yeah. That's just hard. And and I get it. It's it is real loneliness. I mean, he's lonely. He he he's he's doing this alone. Yeah. But I don't know. But now I'm gonna I'm gonna Hold on. No. Steve. Steve goes

Steve, mean, hit me. I'm thinking I'm putting myself in this person's shoes. Mhmm. And it would be a real big bummer. But lady friends? I mean Yeah. I probably hate Mike.

My wife's in the nursing home. You wanna go to a rock concert or something? I'm not gonna find another lady to do lady stuff with. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So I mean, Greg, I think everybody in this room can realize that, like, wife companionship is different than hanging out with a dude companionship. Right? Yeah. But, I mean, once again,

it's it can be it can be handled. It can be dealt with. It can be worked through. And, like, you don't have to, like, be eating dog food at home by yourself. Right? You can go out to a a rock show with somebody or whatever. Go to a rock show every night if you want to. Sure. Yeah. But yeah. But, like, right to the nursing home. That's right. You don't have to have it was this this goes to something we've talked about before where, like, people who have a problem give you, like it's a false dilemma. They give you one path. Hey, should I stay at home lonely hearts?

Or can I step out of my wife because she's in a coma coma? Yeah. Or dementia. Yeah. Those are the only two options in the world. Sure, friend. Yeah. Not at all. Rock concert, totally viable option. Long John Silver's all the time. All the time. Take that woman. You gas it up. Work there three nights a week. Eat there four others. You can have free flowing wind at your place all the time. Ain't nobody saying nothing. Yeah. Wow. Let the breeze ring a bell. You just love it. Yeah. Whatever. And so, like, I I like I get that it's difficult. This is actually this goes to the theme every time. We've seen this in multiple advice requests. It's always dudes where, like, the wife dies or something, and they act like they just don't know how to even handle the world. Like and so always,

it's an old get like 65, 70 year old guys, as soon as their wife dies, bam. They're married in like a year. Oh, yeah. Or under. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that many times. Yeah. I'm like I mean, fellas, there's a life to be lived here. There's there's people who don't get married at all. Go talk to that guy. Go join a a a group of guys who are, like, single and happy, and at least reframe your world. Like, get that your world blew up. Like, this is very hard because what it sounds like we don't have sympathy for what you've lost, what you were hoping for, then the way the world actually worked out. You put her in there six years ago. Okay. He also said she's still around. That didn't sound very way to say it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's still here. She was supposed to die thirty years ago. Yeah. Yeah. He's a real winner. This like, it's okay. Regardless of whether it comes from something hard, like, the the reality is is that you are not bound by only two options.

There's plenty of life to be lived. I mean, go commit yourself to charity where there's all kinds of stuff Mhmm. That fills the aches of your heart that don't require I get it. He's I think he's horny. I think he's trying to say, I'm used to having a wife around. She's been gone for a while. Six years. I want some attention. Too much. And I'm sorry. That isn't the the bounds of which these things are holy and awesome are the bounds of which you are still tied. And as long as that's a reality, then you remain bound. And so you're gonna have to figure out something else just like many people have before you, and they restrain from doing things that weren't good and did other things that were jolly in their lives. And you're just gonna have to embrace it and stop acting like you only got one option. Dummy. Secular sales. Took a turn. We're, like, sympathetic. You know? I feel sorry for you, dummy. Well, here's the thing. It's like, oh, once again, it really depends on whether he knows Jesus or not. But, like, that stuff that you're talking about belongs to your wife. It did before you got married. It did why you were married, and it does after she's after she's gone until you marry again. Right? That's that's it. That stuff always belonged to your wife. Right? And God said so. God says your attention in that area gets focused on this, and that's the way it's going to be. And, like, I I you have to do better than you're doing. You're acting like a big pansy. Okay. Segular says, what happened to your wife is unfortunate, and you both have my sympathy. Wanting and needing companionship are normal. It is important to ask yourself if the situation were reversed and you were in a nursing home suffering from dementia, to what extent would you want your wife to go on with her life? Oh, stop it. Whatever you decide after that is crucial you not forget you have a responsibility to make sure she's being well cared for. This means visiting her often to ensure it because dementia patients do better when they know someone loves them. What kind of marriage advice is this? That's a if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander advice. So, like, you could ask the same thing about, hey. I was thinking about cheating on my wife. And as long as the wife's okay with it because she would be okay with the husband like somebody else doing it, then you should be okay. Yeah. It's like the previous question going, you should buy an iPad and lock it, and then not let him see any of it. That'll show. This is very mature Yeah. This advice. This is dumb. She continues last bit. As to how to explain the women that are that that you are married oh, as as as to how to explain to the ladies that you're dating, that you are married. Well, the ones who are friends of friends already know that. And those you meet who do not know should be told during the course of your first serious conversation. It's the honorable thing to do. Now do you think if it's too much of a risk for this guy to ever to go on any, like, kind of platonic events with another single woman? I think that's fine.

You think Nathaniel, what do think? Too risky? I wouldn't do it. But also, like, I just, talking to, women in general is not my my thing. That's true. Other than my wife. Clearly, just by the skin of your teeth, you got the one. Yeah. It's like, oh, I don't even know how to do this. Do do I bring up the weather? I guess. See, you've gained some weight. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nope. Sorry.

Oh, no. I meant no. I was Oh, it's a hernia. My bad. Alright. You're right, Nathaniel. You're It's not it's my thing. I don't know how I got the lady I have. Okay. I it's I I don't know. I don't know. I have to think through that. I think that's risky. I because I think it starts you down a path that, like, maybe you're like, I think I can totally handle this, and you're three three movie dates in, and you're like, I cannot handle this. Yeah. It's it you're gonna hurt yourself. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. Especially, you stick to the principles that we were just talking about. Yeah. You are kinda dancing. Like Steve says, there's plenty of dudes in the sea. Yeah. Yeah. Or like your mom, maybe. Yeah. Become a big brother, big sister. There's all there's all kinds of really good options out there that don't require you to take out single ladies on the town. Okay. Last one. Okay. Here we go. Dear life from the path. When a friend of mine, quotes, makes dinner for invited guests, it's either takeout Chinese food or delivered pizza. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Last Thanksgiving, they invited me and several others over for dinner. You guessed it, Chinese food. Wait. For Thanksgiving? Yeah. Yeah. That's bold. I love I love this person. Yeah. I told my friend I was surprised and not in the mood for Chinese food. Offered my apologies and left. Oh. We didn't talk for four months. Wow. You're a pain in the balls. This past year, was again invited to Thanksgiving dinner. I declined and when asked why, said, I'm sick and tired of what is being offered. Wow. The response was, then I guess I'll stop inviting you,

and I don't need your friendship. I replied, glad. We were on the same page. Life from the past, this friend knows how to cook and could certainly order something different. Was I out of line? Yes. I have no regrets. The friendship has ended. And neither do they. You suck. Wow. That's both. I'd buy you a burger, but you wouldn't take it. Yeah.

On. I gotta go back to the direct quotes. I'm sick and tired of what is being offered. Hey, man. You wanna come over for Thanksgiving? I'm sick and tired of what is being offered. Well, then I guess I won't invite you, and I don't need your friendship. Good. We're on the same page. Actually, I don't know what your what your everybody agreed here. Like, you came to an understanding. They don't want you there. You don't wanna be there. Why is she writing this What's the problem? What's yeah. It's already resolved. Why don't you cook some

chicken Marsala at your own place and be done with it? Was I out of line? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Sure were. Yeah. You got zero counsel in your life, friend. Like the fact that you walked around for any amount of time past a minute, you should have said all that stuff, hung up the phone and went, you boy, I acted like a real boob and a half there. I'm a have to make a phone call. Yeah. But no. You walked around for days going, you know who rock starred that? Old Clint Eastwood here. I done six shooters that guy right up. Yeah. And where where can I get a posse of people to agree with me? Yeah. Or write into the newspaper. You wanna come over for thanks no one wants to cook another meal at Thanksgiving dinner. They just popped out a big old lunch at Thanksgiving. Are you so do you think that's what's happening? I thought they might have been just doing takeout Chinese instead of like a traditional Thanksgiving dinner. Now this sounds like a bunch of young as it went, hey, man. The festivities with the fam is over. You wanna get together for dinner? Maybe. I'll get Chinese or pizza or whatever. We ain't gonna cook How'd you get every year? Thing. Yeah. That's half the fun. It's trying to find a place that's open and get some pie. I don't even care whether they replaced. Because here's the thing. Let's say you're you they they're replacing the Thanksgiving dinner with this. They pizza and and Chinese.

And they go, hey. You wanna come over? You go, no. That's okay. Thanks for inviting me. Why not? There's a solution. I'm gonna spend time with my family. Don't make me say it. What's being offered? I don't like your generosity. Like I hate it when you buy me things. Here's the thing. And if you can't come out now, if you because you want a traditional Thanksgiving dinner, you've got other places or other options you could go, great. If if you're so against Chinese food that you're gonna make it Thanksgiving spread for yourself, that's pathetic, and you should say it out loud. That way your friends could deride you about it. Yeah.

But, like, I I mean, it's okay to say no and say no twice and do it graciously. I don't know. Like, it's not that important to someone else. Like, this is not a personal offense to you. Like, if they only they if this person said, hey. I'm having a Thanksgiving dinner for just you, and I'm ordering Chinese every time, maybe you could take this personally. But other people are being invited, and other people are showing up. This is not about you, you selfish twit. Yeah. This is this is pretty rough. Like, I'm assuming you have an outlook on life that goes, you mean you're having a you're having a get together and the menu was not catered to my specific taste? Not only am I not gonna go, I'm gonna tell you how much you suck. Yeah. Your whole personality and our friendship is bogus because you don't serve what I want on Thanksgiving, and I know you can. You look totally good, son. Gosh.

Yeah. You're the worst. I can't believe this person was your friend in the first place. Yeah. In fact, you should I tell you what. Here's my recommendation for you. Not only should you leave this situation where it lies, you should write this story down. You should take a clipping of what you sent in, get it laminated, hand it to anybody you propose to be friends with just so they know what they're getting into. Yeah. I turn out to be like this. Yeah. This is how I this is how I am. This is how get back on Thanksgiving. You should be well aware. Yeah. I'm a closet jerk. Actually, I'm pretty open about it. Yeah. Yeah. Neutral grain bar? Anybody? Okay. Segular says yeah. Wrapping up the advice. Segular says, when someone accepts an invitation to someone's home, rather than criticize the menu, they should be grateful for the hospitality being extended. Were you out of line? The way you phrased your reason for declining was rude. You could have inquired about the menu and asked if you could bring something more, quotes, traditional.

It's fortunate you have no regrets that your relationship with your former host has ended. I'm pretty sure the feelings are mutual. Yeah. You think that's rude that, hey. I'm a servant Chinese. Hey. Do you mind if I bring some stuffing? No. I'll like, well, I guess, okay. Yes. Whatever. Bring whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah. And and then you're just you're the only guy you're little Jack Horner over there eating your own stuffing a corner of the room. I I can I think of your Chinese?

Most people don't even ask. Right? Like, if I say, you know, we're doing burgers and brats or whatever, and it turns out they're digging on that, like, they just show up with their own macaroni salad and apricots, and they don't even say anything. And I don't say anything because, like, I I know they brought it because they don't wanna eat my stuff. Right? There's no reason to embarrass anybody about any of this. Well, go I mean, like, how how shallow are you? Like, let's say you go over there and you went because they're your friends of yours and they serve Chinese and you really didn't feel like it. I mean, I don't know that you can't muscle down some rice. But, like, so you go you just don't eat. You casually kinda take a little bit. You kinda pick at it for a while. Maybe people notice or don't. They're having a conversations. And, like, I mean, just don't eat. Eat something else later. Like, one meal, you can't boss your way through. Who can't eat a spring roll? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, skip the moo goo guy pan. But, I mean, everybody could throw down on a spring roll, cranberry goo. It didn't even sound like they didn't like it, though. That they were just sick of eating that. It was a straight insult because we had Chinese last year. Which yeah. Can only do this months apart? I can do this once a year, maximum.

And you paid for it both times. I'm sick of this. Boy, I mean Let's mix it up. Let's get some Indian. I mean, they said they did pizza. Yeah. I I seriously, I this is a high maintenance friend. And whoever had this dinner is lucky to be rid of them. Yeah. Hopefully, they sit back and learn that and then come back to the friendship later with a different attitude. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a guy whose wife's in the nursing home who's looking to take somebody out on a date. Exactly. Right. Yeah. You should go out a date with that guy. Maybe you can roast him too. He can go back to his wife where he belongs. Yeah. You're both looking for a little variety. Okay. Thank thank you for hanging out with us on Life From The Path. We do appreciate it. Hey, if you need some advice,

I really would suggest that you don't get it from Internet fellas, especially of our caliber and quality. But if you insist, you can use the Life From The Path Bob Eisler complaint line (515) 517-0085. That's call or text. We'd be glad to not help you with your problem. Or at least do our best to say, look, there's a secular way of going about this thing. Scan, you know, a little off axis Jesus fellas, have a direction of how you should handle your life? We should do a well, I'm I'm pretty sure if we did some data collection, realize that, like, we are against 90 to 95% of the complainer.

Of the person that wrote in asking for advice, we decided it was your your to blame. Yeah. That'd be interesting. Actually Yeah. Or how often so two two things I'd like to know. How often do we align with the complainer, and then how often do we align with secular? Yeah. I bet that one's, like, sixty forty or forty sixty. I say 40% of the time we're close. Even if the justifications aren't right. Right. Yeah. Alright. Anyway, thanks for hanging out. We appreciate it. Hey. There's sorry. I was a little late. We got some back episodes up on on the podcast. And sweet teaser. Well, we might kick off video here coming up pretty soon. We're working on some Internet stuff around here, and so and heck, might even be back live. We haven't been live in years. Mhmm. And so we might be back on your favorite social platforms live with Life in the Path, potentially

interacting with your chat and all kinds of stuff. I think you should do better things with your time. By the time we get in here, probably should be spending time with your spouse telling your kids goodnight, eating leftover Chinese with your friends, whatever. And so I don't know that I'd recommend you watch the show live, but, we may be here for you. Yeah. In case you dig on it. Yeah. So alright. We do, again, appreciate you guys hanging out, and, we hope to see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.