Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston proper. It's

good to be with you. Okay. Mike's my transition man, and he's still out of the country. Nathaniel, that was you. You're supposed to jump in and and provide some kind of sweetness. I hate I hit you with the heck. Yeah. I hit too slow, though. Okay. That's good enough. Alright. Here's what we got going on the show this evening. So Dan has spent the last what do we say? Is it two weeks? It was two weeks. Oh, I two days plus including travel. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So two weeks in Zimbabwe. And so, boy, I I I remember scrolling through ye olde Facebook, and, boy, just looks like some really cool things were happening. So we're gonna catch up with Dan and see how the old Zimbabwe trip went, And then we'll be catching up next week with Mike. He's on his way back from Ethiopia. Actually, he's on a plane right now, on his way back from Ethiopia. Nice. And so Nathaniel and I stopped at the gas station on the way. That's as far as we got. Did you get a Milky Way bar? I did not. I got I got a decaf coffee. That doesn't feel like it's living on the wild side like you guys did. Wow. I think The the Casey's only Mountain Dew flavor. Okay. But it was a refill. You brought in your own cup. I brought That is also not living on the wild side. But Casey's has their own flavored pop? Yeah. Well, the I think they did, a brand deal with with Mountain Dew, and Mountain Dew made them a flavor. Yeah. They have their own flavor.

Wow. Ain't that ain't that crazy? I feel like I should start drinking pop. Okay. So Nathaniel, quick, what was was it? Delicious or not delicious? Yeah. It's pretty good. It's pretty awesome. Like, worth a goat. You try it once. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I like it. Alright. Let's and then we'll do some advice. I think we'll just do that and we'll do some advice. Saw I was looking through a few articles and, like, boy, I'm just not impressed. There's a guy that wrote there's a guy that wrote, this is from the the Christian Post, and he's like, dear Ric Flair. Like, when I say when I say Ric Flair, does this guy cross your mind? Do you know what we're talking about? No. Like the WWE guy? Yeah. Yeah. WWF? Oh. Yeah. Like an he's an old school wrestler. Like, the guy who go, woah. Oh, yeah. Big old white hair. Wears a big big fancy robe. Nice. And, like, I'm not sure what spawned this guy, but, like, the title of the article is a message from god to Ric Flair. And I thought, well, I mean, is he dead?

He's not dead. And, like, doesn't this feel like clickbait? Like, this is the equivalent of Christian clickbait. Yeah. This is this he's not even relevant anymore. That's what was wondering. Yeah. It's, even yeah. Yeah. It's it's all kind of exact same thing. Like, you won't believe what this celebrity looks like now. Right. Right. Right. You know what God was saying to Sonny and Cher?

A message from God to Spiro Agnew. Why? Anyway, I thought I I stopped reading. I I I quit. I said, I don't want any articles on this site anymore if this is the kind of thing that we're gonna do. It was an opinion piece, but it's it's in the same realm as, like, every time something big happens in the news. Yeah. Somebody's like, I heard from the Lord, and I'm gonna tell you the same thing I would have said last week on my radio program. I'm just gonna say it in a message to you as an article. Anyway, so I I don't Why would wait. Why why was it you I guess you didn't finish the article. Why was it to Ric Flair? Like, what did did it have anything to do with him? And so it didn't even okay. Well, here's what we're gonna do it. We're gonna We have to. Okay. Dear Rick with okay.

Dear Rick. If you get this message, that should be a sign that God has something really important to say to you. After all, you don't know me from Adam, and there are millions of articles on the Internet. The fact that you're reading this article is an answer to prayer. This is very arrogant. But I say, it could he just assumes the guy's like, oh, wonder if they're talking about me today. Yeah. Right. I'll Google my name. Well, be doggone. The god's trying to get ahold of me. But before I share god's message to you, let me speak to you from my own heart for a moment. Oh, boy. You've obviously lived an amazing life, one with incredible triumphs and incredible agony. You've been a remarkable performer, arguably the greatest professional wrestler of all time. And the fact that you're getting in the ring again at 73 years old is mind okay. That must be it. It's spawning the return of 73 year old Ric Flair. Ric Flair. Whoo. Whoo. Man. At work, they when after they're done doing their stretches and stuff, they they said, let's get two claps and a Ric Flair, and everybody does, whoo. No kidding. Yeah. Two claps and a Ric Flair. Yeah. Here's the deal. I I hate your work environment, but that sounds awesome. I hate it as well, and the two claps and the Ric Flair make me hate it more. No. It doesn't it doesn't bump you up a little? No. Oh. Wow. I mean, never in my life actually sat down and watched wrestling for more than, like, four minutes. No kidding, Dan. No. Like, even even when you was a youngster? I no. No kidding. Why? I just was like,

no. I just you there was some greasy mans in there wrestling about, Dan, and you didn't say, is this for me? I had things to do. I used to tune in every Friday night for SmackDown. No kidding. Yeah. You were you were all in. I was in. I loved it. Did you ever go to one live? No. Well, I funny thing is my parents didn't really care for me watching wrestling Yep. Very much. They didn't like the violence of it. And so when I was, I don't know, eighth grade, I had a pal who had box seats at Wells Fargo. Oh, wow. To go see WrestleMania or whatever down at Wells Fargo. Yeah. Serious. And yeah. And he said, hey. You wanna come with? And I said, that would be sweet. But then I would have to fess up to my mom, say, hey. I've been watching

been watching wrestling. I'm really into it. Can I go with this friend? And so I didn't do it. Oh, you said it's it's too much to overcome. It's too much. I'm not gonna do it. I must keep my secret. I did. I did. I kept it. Now wait. Nathaniel, I think seem to recall a a recent show where I'm like well, I asked, do you are you a secret keeper, Or or, like, do you have any kind of secrets? And I think you said no. I don't know. But you've been holding on to this wrestling business for quite a while. Yeah. I well, let me just come out right now.

Look right into the camera. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Shelley Koshan. I love wrestling. Wow. Do you do you still love it? I haven't watched it in many moons, but I think I could probably get back into it. You say it's quick. It's you it's like riding a bike. Yeah. Now would you be embarrassed if you were watching wrestling and your wife came in and caught you watching wrestling? No. In fact, I've told my wife that

wrestling is my love language. Like, wink wink wrestling? No. No. Straight up. No. Like, actually, like better stop right here. No. Not in the Welcome back from Zimbabwe, Dan. No no winks about it. Okay. Okay. Just wrestling. Okay. I mean, you could do the wink wink. This is your wife. That's true. You might say, I'll take both or something. Okay. Then you say, woo. You

have to do the two claps. Two claps in the woo and a Ric Flair. Okay. You get back to me. I don't want all the details, but just tell me how the last part went. Okay. Alright. You've cheated death over and over. You've survived a plane crash and have broken back, and you've consumed enough liquor to sink a ship. Really, quite a few ships, and yet you're still here. You've entertained millions. You've been featured in viral hip hop videos, and everyone knows your signature woo. This is so lame.

You've also found your own son dead of a drug oh, shoot. Took a turn. Dead of dead of a drug overdose. I cannot imagine the pain. The question is, why are you still here? Why did you come back from the dead several times? Is it so you could perform in the ring one more time? I recently read that five years ago, you were on life support for two weeks and intensive care for one month. You were given a fifteen percent chance of survival, but here you are, not just alive, but ready to wrestle again. Why? You said to ESPN, god gave me a gift. I almost feel like he wants me to do this last match. Why bring me back from so much? I can answer that question for you. God brought you back from so much and kept you alive because he wants to bring you to himself. He's giving you a chance to repent, meaning to turn your life around with his help and to come to know him personally. Now wait a minute. How do we know that he's not a Jesus man? You think he's just facetiously saying god gave me a gift? I feel like he wants me to wrestle at 73. Like like Seems a little judgmental there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. But I knew I tell you, god didn't bring you back for this match, but he said you should you should repent because you are not a Jesus man. I mean, I guess, I don't know. Maybe there's other indications that he it sounds like he might have struggled earlier in life. I mean yeah. But, anyway, he says in Bible, Paul put it like this. Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see this? Kindness is intended to turn you from your sin. Do you feel the weight of those words, Ric Flair? You haven't received what you deserved. The lord has been very kind to you, but it's for a purpose, Volkolan. His kindness is intended to bring you to repentance, to bring you to a brand new life.

The same Bible says that all of us have sinned and fallen short of God's standards in the panel okay. We got that part. Would you agree that you have fallen short too? Back in the nineteen seventies, Billy Graham appeared on the Johnny Carson show. If my memory serves me correctly, Carson said something like, reverend Graham, I'm ashamed to say that I can't remember all of the 10 commandments. Graham replied, yes, but you've broken all of them. Here's the deal. I do like Billy Graham. I find he I find some of his kids annoying, but, I'll tell you this. I find Billy Graham a winsome character. Yeah. I feel like he's just he just got away with people and, like, I he gets here's the it's okay. Gets away aren't aren't the words that I'm looking for, but, Billy Graham was able to do things in such a way that if some other guy tried to do them today, you'd be like, okay. Stop. Right. Like, this is shallow. This is for your own kingdom.

I don't like any of this. But like Billy Graham was the first, like, I like, I, he's not the first guy. Right? But like, was very successful at it at, at, at kind of the turn of how in our day and age you might think about using entertainment or like big crowds and things like that. So it's slightly different than the than the other revivals and things that were happening before him, you know? But he just did it in such a way that it didn't feel so skeezy, and I don't know why. Maybe I just got a soft spot for the bit. I don't know. Yeah. No. I've I've always agreed. I mean, then, you know, if I wouldn't do some of the things he did, I mean,

I know his heart was right and he meant right. Mhmm. Like like, you know, the invitation time, he'd already have hundreds of people coming down, but they were like the workers. But people assumed, oh, they're making decisions. I better go too. Right. Right. That's that's that's kind of manipulative. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, I anyway. Yeah. So Right. But I agree with you. I I mean, the guy just seems he's he's in a different level. He's Yeah. And and and it it happened and seemed to do it in such a way that, like, like, he's he's a everybody's more complicated than you want it to be. Right? Maybe he's the guy who still lived in the $90,000 house and never moved from it. That's awesome. But, like, does feel like there's a bit of a manipulation in the people moving forward. And, like, he probably wouldn't explain it that way. He said, look. People are afraid. And so, like, if other people moving forward get gets them to say something that they wanted to do but were too scared if that was the thing holding them back, then we made it easy for them to do it. I'm like, well, okay. I don't know. Anyway, I don't know. Billy Graham seems to get away with things that, at least in my mind that other people can't. Anyway, could the same be said about you? What about you what about you shall not commit adultery? How have you managed with that one? Okay. Yeah. This guy's really got away with people. To repeat, all of us have sinned and violated God's commands, and all of us deserve death in this world and the world to come, but it's not the end of the story.

Rather than condemn us all to hell, God sent his son. I don't wanna say blah blah blah over this part, but he's really putting me in a he sent his son Jesus to die in our place. Can you imagine a love that great? We sinned, and Jesus, who was perfect and innocent, died for our sins. That's what we call grace, amazing grace. This is not a myth, Rick, or just some religious story. It's the absolute god's honest truth. Okay. Blah blah blah. I'm gonna see if he comes. In '19 okay. No. That's blah blah blah. That's his return. Millions of people around the world love you. This is the end. Remind you and admire you. I'm sure many of them have been praying for you too. So what will it be, Rick? This is God's message to you. I

I don't it's not like what he said was untrue. Right. I just it just feels it feels like it's not for Ric Flair. Yeah. I'll put it that way. Like, you tell me you don't know how to get ahold of Ric Flair. He's at 73 years old, he's a bit of a has been. You tell me you don't send some you wanna invite him on your podcast or, like, send him a letter, he's going to get it, and he's probably going read it personally. All the people that might have read it for him twenty years ago, ain't around anymore. Right. He's going to read it. And so send the man a note if you want to. This is this I hate this is posturing. And I'd like, I don't know. Even if he said, here's an example of what I might say to Ric Flair,

so that you people can figure like, here's what it looks like to share the gospel within the context of everyone we may agree that we know, and so you can see how it might relate to them. Okay, baby. But, like, this just this just felt arrogant to me. Maybe that's wrong. I don't know, but it just I don't like it. Nathaniel, have you ever written a letter that, like, trying to convince like, written it doesn't have to be letter. Letter and email trying to convince someone to love and follow Jesus? No. No. Dan, have you done that? I don't think so. Not especially a public letter. Yeah. Well, certainly. Yeah. Let me write a letter to the editor here

just in case Samantha's listening. That's right. Samantha needs Jesus. For all the rest of you guys, you know, be praying forcefully. Tune in. Okay. Let's let's let's talk Zimbabwe. So so, Dan, you've been let's let's reset the scene. Yeah. How did you get hooked up with trips to the with the mission work in Zimbabwe? Okay. Yeah. It it all started on part of of a preacher group and on on Facebook. And

several years ago, a guy threw out there, hey, we got this new scholarship in we have a Bible college in Africa, in Zimbabwe. For a $100, you can pay for an African Bible College student's room and board and tuition. And, you know, he just threw it out there to the group. And I read that and thought, man, that that sounds fascinating to me. Somewhere along there, like, in the previous

few years prior to that, I'd read and heard and people discuss that God's really doing something in Africa. They really believe the future of the Holy Spirit moving, like conferences I've been to, like how God has blessed certain places for a while, then they screw up, like America. Obviously, we're still here, and we have Jesus and everything, but the real Papadan stuff's starting to move to Africa. Yep. And I thought, wow, that's really exciting. I don't wanna go to Africa. Right? I mean, I don't it's like, I don't wanna be a missionary. Like, I mean, that's that's not my thing. Yep. I thought, but, man, I have a $100, and if I can help someone who already knows the culture, who already knows the language Mhmm. Who just wants to share Jesus,

that sounds way more effective than me going over there. Yep. So And I started doing that. Yep. And then a few months later, I I met this guy at a at a conference, a missions conference, and he he's like the director of Hippo Valley Christian Mission in in Zimbabwe. And we're talking and he said, Hey, just come to Africa sometime. I'm like, Oh, I don't you know, that's why I'm doing this scholarship thing. And he goes, Oh, just come. Come on. We got a group going in six months. Just jump on that team.

And I'm thinking, okay. I mean, like, it'd be cool to have the church doing some missions. Thought so my daughter, Shanna, and I, we we we jumped on board, and we thought, okay. If if if I wanna do it, I'm gonna observe with someone else before I, like, take someone somewhere. And absolutely, 100% fell in love with the people there when when we got there. I mean, it was nothing like I expected. You know, I think I I think I watched, like, too many Tarzan movies or something. Thought even just the the the geography. I mean, everything. You know, just the Yeah. I I just figured it was gonna be all jungle or something. It's like, I don't know that. Yeah. No. No. It's not.

Least not where we are working. And, yeah, fell in love with it, and then we started going. Now we go every year, we take a team every year, and we have relationships there, different pastors, different people within the organization, the Hip Hop Valley teachers, they have schools and churches and clinics and things like that, health clinics. Yep. And yeah, so we go back, we do revivals, a lot of the things that worked really well here in the seventies and eighties

in America work really well there now, like the old fashioned revivals and and that type of thing. So we go do VBS and and revivals and and people come out of the woodwork by the hundreds hundreds. Why do you think that is? Like, why like, I don't know if that's a if if maybe it's easier to explain it like our culture's response to those things or their culture's response to those things, but why does it feel like those types of things work? Well, partly because we're there, to be honest. Mhmm. Zimbabwe was under British rule

until was it with the eighties, seventies, eighties, when they had their big war. And since that time, there's been less and less white people there. And and so there's a whole generation of people that, like, have never seen white people, especially when we go out into the rural areas. Oh, yeah. And so we got a group of white people show up. It's they're they're curious. The the kids, they wanna feel your skin and see if like you like, are we leather? Like, what's like, they're like, what's are we sick? They don't know what's wrong with us. We just look goofy. Right. And so some people come just because of that. It's extremely

a poverty ridden place, and so some people come because they know we have things, we have food, we'll feed people. Oh, yeah, yeah, have gifts and stuff. Yep. And some people just, not not in a, like, I wanna get wealthy thing, but but in a, man, I sure would like to eat. That'd be cool. Right. Right. We we've had some people, I don't know, two or three years ago, and and they were we we talked to them afterwards and they were, they hadn't had protein in, like, two months. Oh man. And we had like chicken, we bought a chicken set that day. So you know, there's multiple things like that. And there's a church network there, so they get all excited because they know we're coming, so they roll people up, and then they tell them things are coming, and people see us walking through town and it attracts crowds

like a beacon of whiteness. Yeah, it is, it's really bizarre. We'll drive by a school if they're out for recess, and I'll just wave out the door of the car and they'll come screaming running to the fence. You know, like, oh, you know, like, I don't know what they expect, but it kind of rock star type of thing. And so we figured, well, if we're the gimmick, so to speak, if people wanna see us, we're the sideshow, we're the circus show, and they get to hear the gospel, maybe maybe that's with the Billy Graham stuff, you know? Then

I okay. That that's cool. I don't mind. So that that's that's how we got going. It was totally by accident, totally by accident. It was not a goal. It wasn't like, hey. I wanted to go to on mission trips to every single continent. You know? I have no desire to do that. Right. I know a lot of people do mission trips because they just wanna have bucket list, you know? Yep. And they wanna just go visit the world, and I think, ah, you're doing that. That just I I just don't feel good about that. Yep. And and so, yeah, I'm I'm just big. We have one place. We we're focused there. We have relationships. We're we're building depth. Every year we go back, we build more depth, and God's gonna keep me going as long as I can. I don't know how long I can go. Yeah. But, you know, I I hope I have several good years left to me for that. And and would you say that there is something about because I think one of the risks, and and I believe we've talked about this before, and maybe even after either Mike or I came back from from Ethiopia or you were back from Zimbabwe,

is that, like, I think there's a hesitation in what you were getting at just a minute ago, which what feels like mission tourism. Like, let's take the youth group. They're gonna wander around just outside in some safe area outside Mexico City and help a zipline. Yeah. Yeah. And serve a meal and then go back and say, oh, well, we got we got to see it. That something feels icky about that. You get to pat yourself on the back. I have really served the world and Yeah. And these things aren't cheap either. Like, you're having to raise money to to fly out there. And there's there's there's expenses, you know, to get in and out of the country and and all that stuff. And so, you know, there's there's something about

what you were talking about, which is, like, the scholarship that helps fund people in their own places to do those types of things. But would you also say, like, it does sound like there is still something that we are contributing. It's not just taking from a culture to come and observe it. There's something about someone from outside that culture that helps provide energy. And I dunno, maybe even appreciation for people who are doing the work to have someone that comes in from outside. Like, would you feel like there is a value that is still in that

for coming? 100%. There really is. It's convinced me, especially as I keep going back. We did a number of revivals this time and vacation bible schools simultaneously. And at the end of one of the revivals, was an older lady who stood up at the end and thanked us for coming and talked about how valuable it was. Some thirty years earlier, she had made a decision at a similar type of revival, some missionaries had come and

she made a decision then and there she still was very highly involved in leadership even in her church and she did some of the singing and stuff. She said, This is so important. And we had a ton of people that accepted Christ while we were there.

Baptisms going on and people repenting of sin, it was just an amazing time. And a lot of that was because we were there. Does provide the energy.

And it's the old thing, you know, we've come more than 75 miles, so we're experts. Right. Was maybe pastors would come up and ask me questions about, you know, we did a little Q and A time at one point, and I'm like, I'm just, you know, dorky Dan. You know? Nobody here cares what I think. You know? You might know me as Deuteronomy Dan. Exactly. But but there, they they we we did we did street evangelism one one day, which is like totally we don't I did it in the eighties here. I mean, you know, we just opened just doors and knocked on the doors and hey. Can I tell you about Jesus? Yeah.

Over on over by the fairgrounds in in Des Iowa. We our little church there, we were going around neighborhoods. My wife and I did that. But so I haven't done that for forty years or however Right. You know, long. And and they say, okay. We're we're gonna not have a session. We're just gonna go out to the neighborhoods. Like, okay. Cool. Good. And and it was it was the whole that whole that was fascinating. We we that that culture is so much different than ours. Yeah. We had a little group of people, and and there was a couple of the pastors and and me and some other people.

And and, like, they they'd walked up to a construction site. They're building a house, and they're they're laying the brick. And he goes, I'd like to tell you about Jesus. And and, like, the whole crew stops, and and and they start listening. And the guy pulls out a Bible and starts preaching to them. And I'm going like, this is like and they're all just they're listening like, yeah. This works nowhere here. There's no way. Exactly. And I don't you know, they're talking they speak Shona there, and so I don't know what they're saying or anything. And and one of the guys would everyone whisper to me. He said blah blah blah. You know? But but, you know, we were just on the side.

And it it just it just blew me away. And then they just go into people's backyards and, hey. Can we tell you about Jesus? Were you sure? You know, they they were sitting on their little blanket in the backyard and the kids were were were, you know, coming down and we had a bunch of those conversations. Well, then one of the guys were like, why why don't you do one? I'm like I said, here here's the deal. I'm more than happy to. I'll I'll I'll I'll have a conversation. I said, but you guys you guys this is your world. Yeah. I mean, I'm here and they're gonna see me and and I'm doing my thing, but but you know what to say. You know where they're at. You know you know, I whatever I said made more sense than what I'm saying now, but but he's and he looked at me and said, but you're the teacher. And I thought, wow. I mean, and he was like, you guys are the teachers too. Yeah. Right. Right. You're you're doing it right here. I'm I'm I'm I'm the visitor. Yeah. You know? So, you know, I did some stuff, but

it's weird to be looked at that way. So even within their leadership, looked at us like, oh, wow, they're missionaries from The States, so it adds a little bit of credibility to what they're doing and saying. And some of those people we to came came to the revival, know, I would be do you have any concern? Like, just just doing doing street evangel or just kinda being around that, that, like,

the the things that you're teaching would be received, like oddly in the culture in a way that you wouldn't have anticipated. Like, I would just thinking about stuff that we might touch on in a given Sunday, what I would teach around here, you're talking about a persecution or like, you know, maybe you're hammering home on, on certain things. Cause you're like, well, you know, our struggle, culture struggles with that. Like,

was there anything in your mind where you thought like, I wonder if this is actually the weight that I might give it or the way I might talk about it would be would be foreign to them. I mean, mean, yeah, they they they have they have different issues. You know, they they have witch doctors. They have ancestral worship. They have and we largely skip those. We're like, okay. No one's doing witchcraft here. Yeah. It's Yeah. Like so I I don't even know how to address that. Like Right. Like, you know, stop rape raping three months old women because you think you're gonna be cured of AIDS. You know? Right. Right. You you know, it's like that isn't but, you know, I I don't I don't have that filter here. I don't think of things like that. Right. So so that's why I really I told them, I I really think it's better if you guys do do the talking. I mean, I'm I'm I'm the speaker. Tell them, hey, come and hear the Americans speak. Yep.

I'll be that, but I just think it's more valuable, more effective if you And I probably disappointed them, and like I said, threw some few things in. Had one of our team members was with another group and he did all kinds of talking to people. Oh nice. And I thought, well, that's cool, but also I don't know that anybody suddenly jumped on their knees and repented. So he was bold, that's impressive. Was it effective? I don't know.

They were by some type of drinking establishment. I don't know if they call it a bar or something there, but there there were some people drinking and it was pretty hot out that day. And he's like, yeah, buy everybody a soda. You guys want a soda? Sure. So he took the team over and bought them a soda, and there was a guy there that said, buy me a beer. And and and my guy's like, well, I I can't it was kinda like a a Peter, you know, on on walking away from the temple that day. He was like, well, I don't have money for for beer, but I can give you Jesus, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay. That's really clever. I don't know.

I was kinda thinking he'd offer a bargain. I'd I'll I'll I'll buy you a beer if you'll listen to me talk for about five minutes. Oh. What deal? But but see, they listened anyway. Alright. I mean Save the beer. Yeah. It it was a cool it was it was cool. That that was a very foreign thing, even though I've done it here, but it's been so long. Yeah. It was hard to get over my own thoughts of the reactions that people would have here. Mean, just

go ahead and try to go to a construction site here and say, hey, guys, fellas, got you to stop for a few minutes and I would like to preach to you. That's right. Gosh. I could just imagine the words I'd hear that my poor ears have never heard before. You know what's so interesting though? Is it does mean that if you think about our own context, is that we are uniquely being from America, you are attuned to what Americans will tolerate. Mhmm. And, like, you could send one of them them poor fellows from Zimbabwe over to a construction

site here and, like, they're gonna I don't I don't think we're just gonna be gracious just because it's a foreigner. Like, in fact, depends on where you're at, but it might go very poorly. And so, like, the the notion of what of what maybe we would need, the skills you need to have to try to reach an American culture are slightly different. Like the the Americans are just they're past it. They they don't they feel like you're trying to sell them anything, and they're out. And so, like, the the amount of it's I'm I'm thinking about even from an apologetic standpoint, the types of things that you would feel like you have to depend defend apologetically about scripture, about god, about whatever in our culture are probably not the same things that people are struggling with in Zimbabwe. They're not arguing as to whether like, we're still arguing whether there's even any spirituality anywhere, whether God is even real, whether spirits are real, and they're like, oh, heck yeah. They're real. As a matter of fact, that one took over my cousin Yeah. And caused them to burn him. Right. And so you tell me how Jesus who Jesus you tell me how Jesus solves that. Like, that's a way different conversation that we're having here. Yeah. Yeah. Which is Nathaniel, you're you are you are suited for evangelism in the American context.

It's true. It's time to get on kinda get on board and do it. That poor Zimbabwe. In fact, actually, I would be encouraged if one of those guys came over here because because and I would. I first of all, I'm taken in by accents. You find me a a British man. I assume he's smarter than me. But, like, listen. Remember because Zebedee was here. So he was he came on the show and we talked to him, and it was super encouraging to listen to him. And, like, a guy like that, not only is he like, he's full of wisdom anyway, he's just been doing that for a long time, but like, it feels like he's he's he's battle worn.

Yeah. And from doing work in that culture, which may not actually translate to what you would do in America, but it's encouraging to see because you know that where God has people doing work for Jesus here, he's got the other parts of the world covered too, and it is encouraging to listen to a man look at the world with what are probably his normal eyes, but feel like fresh eyes to me because he sees a different world and some of it'll translate and some of it won't necessarily, but it is encouraging for that. I always have people worry that I'm gonna like stay there sometime or move there sometime. You're gonna retire and go there someday. I'm like, I'm just

not I would not be nearly as effective if I lived there as if I play the role that I do for a couple weeks. But I don't know that I'm all that effective here, but at least I know how to do church work. I know how to make the organization, you know, function and the organization is reaching people, but, you know, here.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is different than like, I don't know, hey, I wanna move to Brazil and I'm just gonna call myself a missionary because, you know, I moved to Brazil, it's a little bit cheaper. I think it's cool there. I attend church there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We had, so we had this this Q and A time with some some pastors. Yeah. Right? Like the pastor issues there are very different than here. There's this cultish, I've heard it said before, they always say it so fast, I really don't know, I need to like see it in print. I don't know what it's called. Yeah. It's the, you know, and I'm like Right. You know. So anyway, but they've they're all in white Yep. And and they're off on on the side of the road, off in the bushes somewhere,

the brush, and and they'll they they're extremely dedicated, not not to Jesus, but to whatever it is they're dedicated to. Usually, it's the guru guy that's leading it, and and like but they're they're like through typhoons, like they don't leave. They're they're just like extremely committed to to to their their thing. And one of the pastors there was like, he says, my wife doesn't come to my church. And first I'm like, well, that's really, that's really she's one of them. One of those people. I'm like, oh, that just went up a whole different level. Yeah, right. You know? And he was like, what do I do? You know?

I thought, well, I mean, what said was, well, first of all, you can preach a lot of people to Jesus. You know, we're walking around preaching to people, we're talking to construction workers and says, you will never be able to preach your wife to Jesus or your children. You can't preach your family to Jesus. You've gotta be authentically a Christ follower at home. They see beyond your words. Yep. You know, and anyway, we had that conversation and I don't know if that was helpful to him or not. Right. But,

like, I don't know if I've ever talked to an American pastor who has something like that going on. That's right. Maybe my wife isn't as interested or she likes to be, you know, but but but. Right, not like she's a priestess in a different religion or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it's a different ballgame for sure. That's interesting. What kind of other things are like they dealing with pastorally that are different or you feel like are distinct? Yeah, yeah, I mean, part of it is like distinctive to this particular mission is that they're working on a process of we've been supporting them financially,

all the pastors, since the mission has been in existence for however many decades, and they're trying to wean them off and say it's time that you become self supporting and that your churches support you and so we can plant more churches, you know? Yep. So they're frightened. It's and part of life gets new, know, part of it is they're encouraging them that, well, maybe you can

have a second type of job, know, a career, you can do both, whether it's raising livestock or we're gonna help them like invest even like, hey, buy we'll buy you this machine to make peanut butter, then you can sell peanut butter, know, that that kind of thing. A peanut butter making machine. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. There's all kinds of little things like that. They're they're working with little fish hatchery things and and and chicken coops and and all these different little things to help, the pastures. But but it's like, you gotta want to to do that. Yeah. Right. You know, it's easy for me to say, well, why don't you just make peanut

Maybe I'm not a salesman, you know? Yeah, right. Maybe that's not my thing, know? Right. So, well, look, we've gotta, you know, figure out how to help them. So they're afraid, that's the point. Yep. And I tried to relieve them, like, like, well, you know, there's some things you can teach your congregation. I mean, in scripture, are examples of people in extreme poverty even that were very generous and part of living in the kingdom is generosity.

And so part of that is teaching your congregation what that means, you know. Not just to pay your salary, to be generous people. Yeah, right, right. You know? But part of that comes back and pays your salary, so. Yeah. So you know, things that, it was on their on their hearts for sure. Yeah. Interesting. So was there anything about this trip?

Because this this be time three, four? Four, at least. Four, yeah. Yeah. So anything that felt like unique or distinct in this trip to Zimbabwe compared to the other times that you were there? It was much heavier emphasis on evangelism. The

revivals were evangelistic sermons talking about, you know, the need to repent from sin and the fact that we have sin and the need to have that forgiven, and so every sermon had that flavor to it, they do the old school

invitations, which churches do here too, but I haven't done it for twenty years, you know, like that. And so we had invitation songs at the end of each sermon, and people just poured forward. Every single time we had people come forward to accept Christ, and there were baptisms going on. We went down to the river

after the first, the very first first two sermons, we had a break, we had 13 people come forward, and I don't know if they were just speaking amongst themselves,

showing us, I don't know what they're saying, all of sudden they said, Alright, we're headed to the river. And I'm like, What? They've negotiated a baptism. What? Which was cool, and so all of sudden we all take off and we're, I don't know, it's a quarter mile or something to the river. Now, this is, okay, we planted a church three years ago. Yep. And there's a river between it. What we did was this first revival was at the mother church of that one. I didn't know anything about them, I thought, well, let's go bless them because we took some of their people and it'll be kind of a cool thing because there's this river that's in the middle and it's full of hippopotamuses and crocodiles and then the people literally actually died there, right? So the people from the two towns have to cross, but from the the name's Chicheche.

Yeah. Would have to cross in the Zangudza is where we're at What does Chicheche mean? I don't know. It's just the name of their town. Yeah. I mean yeah. And and so there were several months of the year they can't because the river's high, too high. Yep. And it's too dangerous. And and and so what was I saying there? That that and with point being that river's kinda dangerous. Yeah. And we're headed down there to do baptisms and and then it was kinda it was just a cool thing to be a part of that. We we were

not equipped. Like, we didn't we we spent the night there, so we didn't bring enough, like, clothes, we didn't have all of our stuff with us so we couldn't like because because I was gonna hopefully gonna be able to baptize some, that would've been kinda cool. Yeah. And it just didn't work out. And one of the other guys had asked one of our other preacher to to baptize them and it just didn't work. I mean, was willing to go in in my suit, didn't care to buy a new suit, you know? Yeah, right, right. Because, you know, but it was just,

you know, they had it all set up, so I interfere. And I didn't wanna also be kinda kinda the whole, like, the apostle Paul, I'm just glad I didn't baptize in you guys. Right. You you know, it's like nobody said, well, I was baptized by Paul. You didn't want the Apollos. We had the white guy baptize me. I I I also was not wanting that to be. Senior ghost. But that was cool seeing all that take place, even when we were there, more people wanted to get baptized than had originally decided. It was just kind of a contagious spirit. They they take the little jembe down to the to the water and they start, you know, drumming and singing and each time someone's baptized and and Were

they playing any of the nineteen eighties Christian hits? Like, you recognize these tunes? At that point, they didn't, but, like, they would sing, like now I can't think. Some of the old hymns. They actually sing some of the old hymns, and I could sing along, you know, in English Yeah. Because I could tell, and the the tune's just a hair different. Yeah. But I I could tell it's the same one. Yeah. You you know? And the timing, syncopation's a little bit slightly different. But yeah. So that that's kinda cool. So, it was very very different that way. We went to to three different churches. In the middle of the week, we did one out in the very rural area, and they,

same thing, had decisions for Christ. There's no water around there, so they, you know, planning and plotting a baptism on that. And then at some point, after several hours, they said, well, you know what? You guys, Americans, you're free to go to bed. I know they got a big day tomorrow, do more VBS and everything, and we're gonna continue on. And I thought, okay, whatever. And somebody left. It turns out they all night long, they were singing and dancing and hooting and howling and beating those drums and praying and worshiping literally all night long. And I don't know, it was probably 06:00 the next morning they started

dispersing to walk back to their homes and where they had to go to work, many had to work. Yeah. Because someone asked, well, they gotta go take a nap? Like, no, they don't have time, they can't. They gotta their chores, whatever it is their time Right, right. So they just were that pumped up and excited about everything. Wow. Yeah,

Yeah. So it's kinda humbling because, you know, like, I mean, you know me, I'm just me, you know, like, it's just Ben, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, we just whatever, you know? But to think this group was so excited that they couldn't sleep and they were dancing. Kind of an interesting, you know, like to observe church world, right? So we have three different churches and you know how different church every church has its own little personality. Yep. You know, that's just you can just you can kinda figure that out if if you've never figured that out. Think about it next time you go to a church. And it was cool to be even in a different culture, I could see the different personality of these three African churches. Yeah. The different

way they sing, they all had joy, they all have, we're all full of smiles, but just different flavor. The oldest church that we went to, you could tell the relationships were longer and stronger and there was just this, they start dancing and then like, it's almost like a jazz band or like a

one of the instruments will sort take off and do a solo, you know, and then back off and but it's kinda like that in dancing. One person will jump forward and they'll do a thing, everybody starts doing what they're doing, you know, and then they back off, then somebody else does some little foot move, you know, and they all start repeating it and they were having fun with it and laughing and interacting in such a way they were just so thrilled to be together, you know, how cool, how cool is that? Yeah, right. Like, doesn't even feel like there's an equivalent

in our culture for that. Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. Nope. I mean, like, I've been to cool worship experiences and stuff, and there's a few people that are doing whatever, raising hands and dancing or whatever, but it's nothing like this. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. I mean, the place clears out and everybody comes forward and they're all dancing hard. There's the church ladies in this particular setting, they wear red and it's their identity as their church. You mean the community says, oh, I know what church you go to? Yeah. Guy smells like us wearing our church t shirts or something. Right. Like usually one will just stand up and start singing and all of sudden the others, they're all in harmony, right? They all start jumping in and then they're dancing, then somebody picks up a drum and somebody might start blowing a whistle or you just don't know or doing the, you know, But it's a pure joy, you know? So

that was like the one that had been around the longest. The church plant we had three years ago, they were doing some of the same things but you could tell the relationships weren't as long yet. Know, they've only been at church for three years. Yeah. So they didn't have like decades of life together yet. So they're like little earlier on in the road. And then the middle one was like a mountain, the one that was all night long. Yeah. That was like up in the mountains, poorer

people, less educated people. So it just had a different flavor to it, but still the joy, still the excitement. Oh, sang and dance all night long. So it was just kinda cool to see the differences and have equal respect for all of them as they did for us. Yep. That's cool. Yeah. And so just maybe as

we round off kind of your thoughts on it, how can folks in The States support and or pray for the not like the the what other Christians are going through, what what God is doing in places like Zimbabwe? Yeah. You you can be personally involved.

Like there's some great missions out there. Specifically, we have worked through Hippo Valley Christian Mission and they have like a living proof program, they call it. They take the poorest of African children who also appear to have some potential. So they're smart,

but they're extreme poverty. So the chances of them being educated are really low. Yeah. After sixth grade, they're on, they have to start paying it on their own. So And they call it Living Proof, it's $20 a month, you sponsor a child. And what that does is that that buys their uniform, that's a big deal there, and they're just shoes, and make sure they're educated. Yep. But also puts some part of this club that's in the school that's called the Living Proof Club, where they're learning scripture and and songs and and learn just learning about God. Yep. So which is really neat because one of the people that came forward in that middle revival at in the the the all night place was a girl that my daughter sponsors, has been sponsoring for like three or four years. Oh, no kidding. And it was like, so cool that I have know, it was was after my sermon and she was like four feet from me and she stood up and and

had given her life to Christ. And I think so, yeah, sure, I had a sermon and everything, but it was all those little 20 a month that my daughter's been paying all these years that has been teaching her and she's been learning about God. It just all clicked together at that moment. What that $20 does is also help someone, it'll help get them to college. I mean, it can literally change their world

forever, besides the Jesus part. So you can do things like that, because it's hard to like just, I'm gonna pray for Kenya. Well, don't even know what that means. Right. I hope they have food. Bless Kenya.

Right, right, right. So what I like about this is we've been able to, we have actual personal relationships. Most churches have some connections somewhere in Africa somewhere or You in contact the missionary of your local church and

talk to the pastors or something that can connect you with someone. Social media, we're in a third world country in absolute poverty places, they all had cell phones. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they have little solar panels to keep them charged. The Obama phones got there too, Nathaniel. Yep, yep. And so I have, I've had all kinds of conversations with African friends just on Facebook and WhatsApp, and I have to keep going back and forth to see how people are talking to me. We've

been back now a few days and like this Sunday, two of the preachers sent me messages, no, three, all three did, of just how their churches were just filled to the brim. It Oh, was like it's still, you know, so it's like we keep that relationship going and Yep. Anyway, yeah, so so you can do it. You have to take a little effort, but once you get it going, it'll be hard to stop it. It'll take care of itself. Yeah. You gotta take some initiative. I could totally see that. And I think, like, one of the things, if you think about,

you know, value it it feels odd to put it in the way I'm gonna put it, but, like, how much that your money buys or the the opportunity that it provides, I can I mean, cost me $130 to fill up my gas tank this last week, like, versus

being able to help with probably multiple children's education for a month? Yeah. And uniform and whatever it is that they have to have. And so, like, as a matter of fact, like, my family gives to some things in Pakistan where there it's the same thing. It's like very impoverished children and, like, you have to start paying for your school and the uniform and you gotta have the uniform and everything and, you know, it's $20, it's $20 a month or $40 a month or something and like it makes, that's a kid's education. Yep. And like, I'd, you'd lose that in the couch cushions over a year or something, you know? And so,

you know, it's certainly there's things here's that we are still in our own context. There's things to give money here, and it's not unvirtuous just because it's more expensive. It costs more to house a homeless guy in The United States than it does to house and upkeep someone somewhere else. I mean, you can change a guy's life in Zimbabwe for what it costs to house a homeless guy in The United States. You still give to the home. Like, we still figure out a way to help the homeless in The US. Like, I'm not saying that, but like, you know, just recognizing of like how little of what we have so easily here can make a significant difference somewhere else. Like, that's not governments redistributing wealth. That's God trying to balance

and make sure that we are being thoughtful and caring for each other and the world, to your point, social media actually helps recognize that the world is both bigger and smaller than what we realize. Yeah. It can actually be kind of exhausting because I have so many people now that are, and every time I go, I make new friends, right? Yep. And so it's hard to kinda keep up with it all, but it's worth it. It really is. I mean, they're valuable human beings that, like, sometimes they're just saying hello. Yeah, right. Right. Just hi. I got that guy from

who I interact with in Pakistan, like, I love this man. He is just such a cool he's so much better at things than I am. Like, he'll he'll check up on me and the and he asks about the church and asks about my family probably twice a month. And, like, sometimes I don't get back to him for a week, week and a half. And I'm like, what what am I too busy to do? This guy is taking time out of his day to just check up on me and pray and, like, I it's just I they're better at it. Yep. Yep. They're better at it. Okay. Well, cool. Dan, thank you for, thanks for sharing your Zimbabwe stories. It's fun. It's exciting. It's exciting. And I think there is a way, like, there certainly is a way to be there's a way to help. There's a way to be of help and to be encouraged. And, like, that changes how you know, what happens when you come back. Like you see the world just a little bit deeper or broader than maybe what you did over time. Yep.

All right. Hey, you've been listening to live from the path. Hey, have you had, maybe if you've had some interesting kind of stories about doing traveling work, mission work, even short term mission stuff. I'd love to I don't know. I'd be interested in hearing them. Maybe you've got some interesting things you wanna share. You know, if you wanna give us a call or send us a text on the live from the path Bob Eisenhower complaint line, it's (515) 517-0085. That's (515) 517-0085.

And we don't know. I just love to hear your story. And I don't know if it's super interesting and maybe we'll call you and you can come you can tell it on the air and the other seven people who listen to show can dig on that as well. Would love to share it. Alright. Let's do some, advice, and then we'll, and then we'll call this a day. You ready, Nathaniel? Yes, sir. Okay. Dear, live from the path. Mother in law's comments caught on doorbell camera. I recently made some unflattering comments about my daughter-in-law to my son. They were recorded on their Ring doorbell. Wait. Wait. Say again, to to about the daughter-in-law

to her son. Yes. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, standing on their front porch, mom looks to looks to son and says something unflattering about the wife. Your wife has big lips. Yeah. And it was recorded by the ring doorbell. Now she's angry with me and my son, and I'm not sure I will ever see the grandchildren again. Well, what the heck did you say? Woah. My god. That just took a turn.

Wow. When I emailed her an apology this is Mike this is why Mike has to do this. She said she didn't know if she could ever forgive me. She will see my husband, but I am not allowed over there if she will be around. She will see oh, see my husband, see the the grandpa. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought she was like, she will see her own husband. Like, well, yeah. Her son. Yeah. Okay. I do the same thing. Any words of wisdom as to what to do? We've always helped them out with the children and sometimes financially. Oh, mercy. Should my husband tell her if I'm not welcome, then he feels the same way? Okay. That's tricky. I know he feels caught in the middle between me and the whole situation. What do you think, fellas?

Okay. Let's start start with start with the wife or start with the mom, grandma, momish, grandma, and then then I wanna get to the dude. What should the dude do? So let's start with the mom. I don't know. Probably call her and apologize instead of just sending some lousy email. She's probably not gonna pick up the phone though, so kinda tough. Yeah. I think she needs to take out for dinner or coffee or something and say, just we need to have a face to face and grovel

and just say, I was I was completely wrong. I was wrong. Yeah. I mean, we all who hasn't thought something terrible about someone? And said it out loud. Yes. Happens. Yeah. You know? I mean, it was a weak moment. Yeah. Yeah. I would say face to face. Like it's gonna take, it would be a monumental amount of stubbornness for you to show up, like even like two or three times and her to say no every time. Yeah. I think, I think, I think she's gonna relent. But she's making you pay for a little bit and you might deserve that. Yeah. That's, I mean, unfortunate that there, I mean, one that you, whatever it is you thought, two that, you said it and it was recorded. Three, she seems to be going back watching these video tapes. That's weird.

But either way, I mean, you got you got caught stealing cookies. You're just gonna have to cop to it. Like, I just, no. No. I don't wanna hear this. We've supported you financially business. You shut your mouth on that. Just not you don't bring it up. It's not it's not your concern. You're just wrong. Be wrong wholly in its entirety. Okay. Yeah. Alright. So so we're basically saying, look. You you just gotta own the whole thing. Grovel, apologize, wait it out. I mean, I I would give it a quite a long time, before you kinda cut cut ties, but even then, I wouldn't be angry about it. Like, she's she might maybe she's overreacting, but we wouldn't be in this position had you not started it. So I think you're gonna have to deal with that particular thing. Alright. So now let's say it's not resolving easily.

It's a it's a rough go. What does the dad do? Does he does he say, hey, man. If my wife's not can't come, I won't come. I won't come see the kids either. What a weird spot to be in. Oh, the dad as in as in the the the mom's husband. Yes. Yeah. Dad's grandpa. Son. Okay. Grandpa, daddy.

Well, I I mean, yeah, you gotta be unified in this thing. Yeah. There's just so many ways you can misuse the grandkids there. And and That is risky. It does seem risky. Yeah. Yeah. And the son. The son I think the son needs to step up and say, here's the deal, guys. You you guys need to figure this out. Yeah. We're family, and families say, sometimes people hurt each other. We we this needs to get resolved. Yeah. We have a long years and years of bitterness if we don't get this figured out. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that it's not the grandpa grandpa daddy's job to sort this out. Yeah. He went over there. He he just he was just he was bowling. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I would yeah. This is the sons to work out. Now, let's in the interim, I think it's

I this gets trickier the longer it goes, but, like, I would say that if she won't allow it's not a punishment for the dude not to show up, but he's like, if my wife's not invited, like, what am I supposed to do? Go like, unless the unless the the the mammy grandma says, yeah, I want you to go and see the kids. But like, you know, I, I think I would just say, look, I I'm, I, re, I really regret that we're not welcome. And, I would, I would love to see this worked out as fast as possible because I miss my son and I miss you and I miss my grandkids. And so I want you guys to work that out. That's not a threat. That's not you're not holding it against them. Like, you've put this man in a rough position. He's not gonna be able to make a choice that doesn't hurt somebody. That's not fair. And so he's he's not choosing his wife over his grand grandkids or his son. I think he's in solidarity and this is how the situation needs to get resolved. And I think that's fair. I think it's all right. Okay.

Yeah. But son, son, so son has to deal with the, with the wife and the mom and say, look, you guys gotta work this out. I will not let my grand I will not let my kids be this, and this is not healthy for you. And we're not doing this, you gotta figure it out. Nathaniel, other advice? Yeah. I mean, what my question would be why didn't he maybe take some action right there on the porch porch step. Like, slap his mom? Oh, I don't know. Just say, hey. Helga doesn't have that wide of hips or what whatever. He should say, you keep my wife's name

out of your lips. I mean Give him the old give him the old Will Smith. Yeah. That's an option. I don't know if that would've helped. It might've helped his relationship with his wife. Yeah. But not his mom. Yeah. Yeah. And I do you you presume that, like, the son was agreeing or just not fight? He didn't say, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. The son could have been just been passive about it because he doesn't wanna pick a fight with his mom. That's kinda how I read it. It's like, well, mom, take it easy. Yeah. Yeah. But not being like, you know? I don't know, man. It's difficult, especially with older folk or people that you know who just don't handle the world right. Is that like, you know, they say something

they say something kind of inflammatory and you're like, what am I gonna do here? Is this Custer's last stand or am I just gonna kinda okay. Yeah. Then just kinda move on. I mean, is it gonna be worth the next two weeks of of pain dealing with this rebuttal or what? I don't know. I don't know. I I don't know. It depends on who you are as a character. I feel like if I did that to my wife and kind of just let it go, she might be go like, yeah, that person's difficult to deal with. I understand. Yeah. But like, if that, you know, if you don't if you're not used to protecting or defending your and then someone's, you know, flipping the lip and you you don't stand up for your wife, then maybe she's got a right to be mad. Yeah. Okay. I have a tough time putting myself in these situations. Like, because it's like I try and put my my my own self in there, and there's just no way I could imagine my mother saying something inflammatory about my wife.

Right. It's most likely to be about you or something. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I hear she likes the wrestling. Exactly. Actually, I've said I've said out loud that wrestling is my love language at my mom's house too. Yeah. Nobody nobody seems to take me seriously about it, though. No one wants to wrestle me.

Just I'm light grappling. I'm not trying to be weird about anything, but, you know, just like you know? Getting in there. I just I just wanna light grapple with people. I'm gonna see you getting getting, like, accosted on the street. Someone's trying to steal your wallet. You're gonna be, like, wrestling with them. I'm like, stop loving that man. I just happen to have my chair. I'm gonna hit you in the head. Exactly. Alright. Secular says, you have learned the hard way that in our technological society,

privacy is history. I do not feel it will be helpful to threaten your son and daughter-in-law by withholding your husband from interacting with them and the grandkids. What you should do is apologize again to your daughter-in-law for your critical and unkind comments repeatedly if necessary, then hope she can find it in her heart to forgive you. Yeah. I mean, I I I disagree on that threatened thing. I just think that's that's

you're representing that harshly for unnecessary reasons. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Here we go. Dear, life in the bath. I have been married for thirty two years. Sorry. I've been married to my wife for thirty two years. I love her dearly. Recently, though, her smoking has been really bothering me. Her father passed away from COPD five years ago because he was a lifetime smoker.

Do people really pass you pass away from COPD? I I thought it's like just something you probably died of, like, pneumonia or something. Okay. I don't know. But I don't care. I thought that would convince her to stop. She has tried, but she always goes back. She tries to cover it up by making frequent trips to the store and other places to get out of sight to smoke. So she's an amateur is what you're telling me. It infuriates me that she would lie, but she doesn't seem to have a problem with it at all. It makes me wonder what else she's been lying about. Canned beef. She's serving you canned beef. My biggest concern, obviously, is that her health problems are increasing. Frequent, excuse me, frequent colds, she blames allergies, coughing while she sleeps, snoring terribly. We now sleep in separate beds at times just so I can get some sleep. When I bring up the subject to quitting, she gets defensive. Her mother will no longer talk to her about it, and she wants her to quit even more than I do. As my wife goes down this road, I'm becoming less attracted to her. We don't talk much anymore when we are by ourselves. We once went to a marriage counselor who agreed with me on the subject of quitting, but my wife blew it off. I'm near my limit and thinking of ending our marriage. How can I get through to her without a messy divorce? Wow.

Again, that took a real turn, didn't it? Yeah. This is the love of my life. You will stop harming yourself in a way that is often difficult to kick, or I'm going to leave you. The thing is he he can't talk her out of smoking any more than she can talk him out of chocolate chip cookies and french fries. Yeah. And they're both gonna kill you. So Yeah. That's right. Get over yourself. Yeah. I mean, I agree. It'd be great if she'd stop. Yeah. But she has to want to. You can't will someone to lose weight. You can't will them to stop smoking, you know, any anything like that. Yep. They've gotta want it and and you can't whine them into it or nag them into it. No. As a matter of fact, I think it almost puts it

it becomes something where you can be kind of their ever faithful encourager, and and there's a line of which that moves to being adversarial, of which they are they are like, they will straight up dodge you. Right? Yeah. Why I take she's hiding it because of like, one, good good nature. She's she's worried you're gonna be disappointed in her, or she recognizes that she has a problem. She hates that she still has it. Yeah. And she doesn't wanna have you look at her and think and and and talk about it again. I mean, she knows. She knows. Yeah. She knows, but she can't stop. Yes. I got a buddy right now who who is

in hospice because of smoking. Yeah. And he knew it. He knew it at the time. Yep. Ten years ago, he said, I know it's gonna get me. It's got him. Yeah. And then there's and then you know? Yeah. And then you you there's just something about, like, there's addictions like that, and it's just not easy to kick. I ate popcorn tonight, and I put butter on microwave buttered popcorn. And I at the time, I thought to myself, that's gonna cause a heart attack. Yeah. I mean, that is that is stupid. It should stop. There's nothing smart about that. Yeah. I absolutely know that. Still did it, and I liked it. Yep. Yep. And I'll do it again. Yep. When I'm at my worst, like,

at the like, I'll go to the gas station. I'm like, I need to I'm just gonna get some coffee. And as soon as I get some coffee, I'm like, this is a hot drink. I can't drink a hot drink all day. I'm gonna need some kind of cold drink to get it. So I gotta buy something else to balance it out. And I'm like, boy, there's a lot of liquid here. It needs to, like, a doughnut or something. Like, this is it's ridiculous. We need to absorb some of this. It's ridiculous. And you know what? I can solve this by doing better. Like, put those two things back. Yeah. Right. And then just stick with the coffee. But I but I don't know how many times, like, again, at my worst, I've walked out with four or five things and it was completely unnecessary, really unnecessary.

Yeah. I totally, here's the thing. People are, people are quirky like this. Like if, if it were as easy as, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna peel back the curtain here. My wife actually doesn't work this way. If she says she doesn't wanna do something, she would just not do it. Like, her her her mind totally works that way. And I know very, very few people who can do that. Now, Dan, you're kind of like that in some things. There's some things where, like, if you just got your set your mind on something, like it's just that's what it is, and and it doesn't like, I've seen that in you, and like but it's not it's not most people and it certainly isn't most people in, in like broadly. Like, there's always there tends to be something and like, it is the hardest thing. I've known all kinds of peculiarities in my life and like interacting with my wife who just simply does not understand it. She does not understand me. I like, we we've had, interesting conversations around like, I don't know, was gonna like, I'll buy coffee when I'm out. And this is like gas. This is not even Starbucks. It's like, I got gas station coffee because I was out

and I was gonna be out for like two or three hours. And so I thought, well, I'll just get a coffee. And like the conversation was around, she's like, you know, well, what are you spending on money on coffee? Couldn't you drink coffee at home? I'm like, well, I'm not home. Well, can't you just wait? I said, I probably could, But it was like a couple bucks worth of coffee. And she's like, like, you you you should just have it every once in a while. And I'm like, I I know where we're gonna have a break here. I said, what do you mean by every once in a while? And like, in my mind, I'm talking like, okay, maybe two days a week or something. Like, don't just don't keep it easy. $2. Just take it easy. What she meant was like once a month. Yeah. That's once in a while in her mind because if she's thirsty when she's out and about or something, she will go through a drive through and get a free water and not buy anything else. I won't pee somewhere without buying something. Yeah. Right. Me too. Feels weird about it. Know? Feel like you're stealing your water. That's right. And, like, they don't care. But, like, I don't know. I just and so, but it's just an odd I bring my wife up as an example because like, I look at this, I look at the smoker and I'm like, I get it. I mean, I and

like, I'm not as likely to lay so, like, it feels it's it's if you look at it purely logically, these addictions are selfish. They all like, if you just ignore the fact that there's a human dealing with it, there's a choice and it feels like, I mean, have you taken every possible precaution? You stopped buying cigarettes. You call a man every time you walk in the store and make sure you don't walk out with any cigarettes. Like, do I have like whatever I spend at the gas station, $8 or something like, okay, we, we could use that $8 elsewhere. And so like, there was something that was, this was just me, only benefited me, actually probably harmed me health wise, dollar wise, and I still chose it and I still did it. And my wife hates that. As like, I'm okay, I get it. I get the perspective,

but like humans are more complicated than that. Like, most humans in some way or another just have a hard time keeping with something or making like, it's not like they don't understand the logic behind it. They just go, yeah. But I'm gonna do it right now. But I'm I'm still gonna do that. Right? Just break down. Like it. And I'm gonna I'm just gonna keep doing it for, ten years. I'll stop tomorrow. Right?

And so, like, I I without dialing back the reality that says, like, if you keep doing that, those things are going to kill you. And, like, it's still sad that it's true that they are. But, like, the reality but here's the thing. You can't live your whole life as if that your whole relationship is your disappointment in that. Yeah. I just, it, it lacks, even if it's logical, it lacks grace and it lacks a little bit of human grayness that I think exists in people that which there's a line of which you, how do you become an encourager to that person without becoming their adversary?

Where they don't, they don't start looking at every interaction with you of, I hope they don't bring up my smoking. Cause like, is that really the, I know whether it's top of their, your mind as the person who's worried about them smoking, but like, that's really all they were to you. Like, that's their whole value as to whether they're a smoker or not. And like, I know because you love everything else about them, you're trying to protect this piece, but like, you're going to miss out on the next X years alive, just focusing on that. And so it's frustrating, especially if you feel like someone's destroying themselves in front of you, like harming themselves

and, and you want something better for them, but like, you're going to have, unless you want to blow that relationship and that this divorcing would be you, that's not on them. That's on you. I just find a way to keep being the encouraging voice in the right direction and not the adversary on the other side of it, even though your adversarial reaction is simply because you love them and it's important to you. I know, but like, don't know, there's a way to do it. It's just a hard, it's a hard thing to do. Antonio,

you ever had like, would you say are you a guy who's, like, easily like, if you say no to something, you can just stay away from it? Or you are you prone to to being drawn back in? Oh, I'm super prone. I I have a very addictive personality Mhmm. Where there's probably things that I'm glad that I have not done in my life because I would

I would succumb to them Yeah. Very easily. Yeah. Yep. I never did cigarettes because I thought, one, they looked expensive to me, and I can't I actually tried once and I couldn't do it. Like, I tried to and I well, I don't I wasn't doing it right. I did not have the effect you're supposed to. But then I thought, like, of all the things to be addicted to, how about a sweet, sweet soda? Yeah. Like the yeah. That one got me good is the soda and the energy drinks. Yeah. Caffeine in general. I don't do the energy drinks. Well, I think the caffeine really got me when I started working night shift for a few years. Yeah. And then I just, you know, eventually, you ramp up and then you're, you know, you wake up and you're doing a gram of caffeine a day. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's just not good. Okay. You're dropping a dime on a monster and you say, I just can't. It's how I live. Yeah. Okay. Have you tried to kick caffeine?

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll go, like, a couple days and it's Two days? Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I I was traveling to California for vacation this last year, and I didn't get any coffee or whatever at the at the airport because I'm not paying, you know, $5 for a coffee. Okay. That's outrageous. Yep. And then, you know, a couple I got, like, a a day and a half in, and I was like, man, I've got this crazy headache. And I realized that it's because I had not had any caffeine, and I and I thought to myself, this is bad.

That, like, I am this addicted to a substance. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not just caffeine. It's also, you know, sweets and Sugars. Yeah. You have food and and Taco Bell. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And yeah. So I can I can and then you get the mindset where you think to yourself, well, you know, I I've screwed up before, and I know for sure I'm gonna screw up again? So why not screw up now? What does it matter? Exactly. And so and I'm sure that's gone through this lady's mind. You know, I I've tried quitting before, and

I've I've always gone back to smoking. Yep. And so, like, why why quit again? And you should obviously, no one wants to feel like a failure. No way. Especially to the person that you're closest to. I know it. There's been several times where my wife says, hey. How's that fresh diet going? And I really don't wanna fess up and say, hey. Yeah. I had eight cookies for lunch, and that was it. But I I have to. I say, yeah. Not good. Not good. I know I started yesterday, but I'm, you know, 1,500 calories over. Yeah. I yeah. I don't I like I I've I've struggled with, like, exercising, like trying to do I sit down all day. Like, I work on an office job. I sit on my brains, just type it away, you know? And so, like, I I really need to be out moving so that I don't get ten, twenty years down the line and my body's like, Dude, we don't know how to do anything else. You should sit back down.

Level of which I think I can commit to, the thought of exercising even five, six days a week for the rest of my life feels like a prison sentence to me. Yeah. It just feels like you said, your life is gonna suck from here on out because every day there's just gonna be a big red dot on the calendar that says you gotta go do jumping jacks and walk around and lift weights for forty five minutes or something for it to me for it to even matter. Yeah. Like, you gotta sweat enough to take a shower, and you gotta lift something so that you're tired and you feel a little bit like junky afterwards. I don't get invigorated. Some people, like, go pump the iron. They feel like I'm ready for the day. Think, boy, I'm glad that's freaking over. I hate it. Like, I just don't like it. And like,

again, sorry. This is this is a Ben Ben's counseling time, but like my wife is awesome at this. She goes, we should be exercising and she starts doing it. And not only she do the one, but she go, we should I'm gonna do an extra one focusing on abs. She'll do another ten minutes. She'll be up till like one in the morning if it takes it. Like anything past 09:00 and we're like, well, we we still need to get the workout again. I'm like, don't we think that ship has sailed though? It's 09:00. I think that we're done with that. It's gotta be 12:30 before my wife would say, and I and I've seen her workout at one in the morning where she's like, I just feel like I gotta do it. Like, she's just there's things I very much admire about this woman that are not in me at all. Yeah. But like, but then when I look forward, if I look at the next thirty years and go, boy, that's, this just looks terrible. And I say, look, I think I can do three days a week or something. I'm going try to target that. I see to my wife, she's like, yeah, yeah, that would be good. But in the back of her mind, she's like, you're going to die a slow death if it's not five. And like, it's for my good, but there's just there's just something there's all kinds of things that are for my good that I just cannot

I can't get my mind wrapped. I wish I felt better out of I wish my energy just like I'm sure there's all kinds of smokers who are out there who are like, I wish I woke up this morning and go, I've got every ounce of energy to fight that stick. I'm not picking it up. Or for you to go, I'm willing to sit out this headache and I'm not going to touch caffeine for two weeks. I'm going to water flush. I'm going to pee a million times. I'm going try to get this caffeine stuff off my brain, but like, it's just harder. It's and like, and that's not even a hard substance. I think of people who are dealing with like hardcore porn addictions, hardcore drug addictions, alcohol, especially like when

when those things are tied to emotions, like my exercise stuff is just like, I think I'm going to be, I don't want to not be able to get around when I'm older and play with grandkids and stuff, but like a lot of people's like addictions are tied to like really rough experiences or hard emotional things. And like, then the two start to be symbiotes, you know? Like, now alcohol is related to your ability to like, think, get past horrific option A or or or like you started taking drugs because you just you felt so junky about yourself and it was a way to get out of it. So now every time you have that same emotional feeling, your body goes, remember that one thing that was better? You should do that because your body betrays you. And so like, what a double layer. I've got a lot of like, there is a there is still an ownership of those things. Like, you gotta own your addiction. You have but to Dan, to your point, like, you you have to want it. It is hard work. Yep. It is not easy for someone like, hey. Can't you just not take meth today? Well, yeah, I wish it was that easy, friend. It is that easy. You just have to not do it, but like, it's not near that easy. Yeah. You're fighting something. So anyway, I have sympathy here. It doesn't mean like the out, the ultimate things are not,

are not difficult, but like, so back to long rambling advice to this fella, is don't divorce. This is a terrible reason to divorce your wife. This is terrible. She, this is not the only reason you married her. I understand why you care about it. The deceit thing, I would be careful. Like, she shouldn't be hiding it from me, but what do you want her to do? Smoke in your face? Yeah, you know, but like also, I want you to consider what it looks like to be married to you,

how often you're bringing this up, and if like, if you're kind of forcing her for any sense of peace in her life to to allow her to, like, I mean, probably feel like crap driving to the store around the block or whatever she's doing, smoking. But now she has to feel like to do it away from me because she just can't handle you mentioning it again and have making it a thing all the time. And so if it's not the main thing in your marriage, which it shouldn't be, make sure you're not giving it the attention that makes it feel like it's the main thing in your marriage. And I I again, like, I sympathize with the guy because it's hard because you think this woman's harming herself and I love her. But don't don't take it as a personal. It's not it's not about you. It's about them and they need your help. Not like, oh, they're doing this to me. I I just most people aren't thinking that far ahead, to be honest with you. They're they're more selfish than that. They're not like, take that puff puff. Like, they're not that's not what they're doing. Yeah. Okay. And sorry. Anybody else got any advice? Like, it's it's aggressive, antagonistic smoking. Actually, I do find okay. Check this out. I find I'm in an unhealthy relationship with my garbage man. Like, his name's Donnie. He runs Donnie's waste service out in my country

area. And like, I do feel like whenever I take the garbage out and he picks it up, I feel like I won that week. Have I said this out loud? I'm like, take that, Donnie. But then but then when I forget to get it out to the curb, I feel like he's laughing, driving by. I'm like, take that, And he had to drive by there anyway. He's not actually up anything. I'm not getting anything. Yeah. But, like, I feel unnecessarily antagonistic towards Donnie with my in fact, I gotta he goes out tonight. Aren't you paying him? I know. That's why it is I I've oriented the wrong way, but, yeah, I I'm not taking advantage of him. I'm only getting the service I paid for, but I do set it out there and I hear the garbage truck go by. And if I remember to put it out, I'm like, take that. Oh, yeah. Donnie, it's wrong. Do you forget to take out the trash all the I get you kinda live out in the in the in the in the sticks. Yeah. It's you don't see other people on your block No. Without the trash. Nope. They do not. It does not happen. If I don't remember to do it, like, I won't see another trash can for two miles. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be lost without the other trash cans. That this one well, so and the problem is is that, like, since I work from home, it's not like I go outside during the morning. Like, I head out towards I work in a shed, and so I don't walk towards the road. And so I may not be out there till till actually, I may not be out there at all. And and the I only know it because I'm on some COTA conference call, and I could hear old Donnie coming coming up the road there. And I could hear him a mile out, but I cannot run fast enough to get this thing

into the road. And so he just I I I know he's feeling smug about it. That's all. Yeah. Anyway, I'm thinking about right now. I was just imagining you, hey. I gotta get off this call. I gotta go. I go. AFK real quick. Yeah. He showed up, Donnie. I actually, I have with the weeks that we don't I do it when I I'll take the garbage out when I get home from the show. You know? It's like now for some reason, the loudest sound in the world are the wheels of that stupid garbage can. Yeah. It's it could be one in the morning, getting home from the show and, like, I'm, like, dragging across gravel out into the road. Everybody in the house is up. But, like, if we don't have a show, which we didn't for the last couple weeks, like, that's when I'm most prone to forget because I'm not out there at one in the morning. Like but when I'm when you're pulling in from the show, I got nothing else to think about. I'm like, oh, Garbage. Yeah. I got it. Okay. Sorry. Advice. Here we go.

Secular says, by now it should be obvious that your wife is displaying classic symptoms of an addict. This is something she may have inherited from her father. Why are we saying that? Or nicotine? Yeah. I you know, she has or her grandpa I mean, or her cousin, Stan. She has a serious medical and possibly psychological problem because she cannot quit on her own. If she's even interested in doing so, which I doubt, why are you saying this? She will need professional help. Nicotine patches and gum could aid in her cutting back, but a psychological component will still need to be addressed. Interestingly, you didn't mention the effect besides revulsion her secondhand smoke is having on you. This is something you should address with your doctor. Once you've done that, offer your wife the opt the option of treatment. However, if she refuses, you'll have to decide whether to consult a lawyer. Well, yeah. I mean, that That's extreme. They doesn't it feel extreme? And then secondly, she didn't give advice. She just said, yeah. What you said, you'll have to think about it. Like, what? She needs counseling. She smokes. What?

Do people still do the the smoking hypnotists? Is that still a thing? Do you remember those guys? Yeah. Yeah. Show up on the radio? Do you not wanna smoke anymore? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You remember that guy? Yeah. Is that still a thing? I don't think yeah. Yeah. I would no. I would assume so. I would guess. Yeah. I haven't seen one in a while. You Maybe I don't listen to the radio that much. Hey, man. You think we could do one for gas stations and Taco Bells? We could bring a dude in here to, like I don't here's the deal. I it's it's this feels like take doing mushrooms. I don't like guy jacking with my conscious states. Like, he might convince me my name is, like, Shannon or something and put me in a real pickle. But, like so every time someone says, hey, Shannon. I can't help it. I'm like, what? Yes. How can I help you? But,

like, I wonder if they do that for for, like, food food and and financial. Before. Food? Yeah. And I wonder if there's any Christian guys doing it. Can I find a Christian food hypnotist? That's my question. Is this kinda like a new age thing? Is that I what's I don't know. It's gets in the spiritual things. That's what wigs me out. Right? Like, there's away from that stuff. I'm kind of interested in people in, like, Christians who are doing some of this kind of work, like Eastern medicine ish stuff and

hypnotism and stuff. Like, I don't know. I don't know if that's witchcrackery or just you're opening up things that the lord has put in there and you're just kinda finding them. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. Alright. I think Google search waiting to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And that's gonna start he's gonna come to my house. He's like, I knew you were thinking about Mount William. Friend Donnie told me to come find you. Alright. This has been enough. Thank you for listening to Live From The Path. We really appreciate it. If you wanna get ahold of us, can do so with the Live From The Path Bob Eisenhower complaint line. (515) 517-0085. I said that number probably a thousand times. I still don't remember it. I have it pasted in front of me because I will forget. (515) 517-0085. Also, tis the season for podcast review leaving. If you've got, you know, maybe you really love the show and you wanna give it the old five stars, two thumbs ups, or whatever you do, just, do that on whatever podcast app is, and then you can leave a comment. Say this particular show was, Randy Dandy. And if you didn't like it, you can say that too. You should this is a what what,

what's a what's a name that you could use that's the opposite of Randy Dandy? This is a disappointing Daryl. I did that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, if it's a disappointing Daryl, you can say that too. That's fine. But that's I think that's all we got. I'm gonna leave it to you, and we will see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live from the Path.