Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live for the past 20 for the Castaway Studios here in Jonesboro.

No. No. It's not. Why are you saying that? No. Yeah. Why are you saying that? We're based in Key West, Florida. Oh, that would be glorious. That would really? You don't don't like the heat? Look at me. Do you think I like the heat? Yeah. No. That's not true. If it's above 60, I feel real balmy. Oh, okay. It's not a good life to live. I don't even know about your balminess. Here we got going on the show this evening. And so we do have so

Mike and I were at a conference this this we played played in the band at a at a local men's conference. And this this guy I don't know what possessed this man. He was a he he he was a comedian. The first set was alright. Yeah. Was That was alright. Decently funny. And then he got up and he did some talking in, like, his second set, and it wasn't comedy. It was, I don't know, comic man as as a bible teacher.

And I don't know what possessed him to focus on every controversial lady passage that was in the scriptures, which is what he went for. And then he said some of the most inane, poor

theology, bible teaching I've heard to a room full of men in probably fifteen to twenty years. Oh, boy. Really Did they soak it up? I checked the room. I scanned it looking for nods. I didn't see a ton of nods. So I think I don't know. Maybe everyone else everyone else was taking it in the way that we did. But, like, I text Ben about halfway through the second set. I'm like, Ben, this is a horrible bible teaching. He goes, you don't talk to me right now. I'm praying for his wife and his kids. I was. I would I legit spent the last half of that set of him talking, praying for that that god would confuse

what people remember about that night. Right. Like, that maybe they just remember which actually, I talked to a guy afterward, and he didn't seem to get the same impression I did, which I thought, well, either he missed it or the lord confused the thing that I asked. Holy spirit just grabbed ahold of it and jumbled up. Yeah. But, like like I said, confuse this and then, like, protect the women and children that are under the leadership of these men that this crappy teaching does not fall fall onto them. And so I wanna I wanna talk about it because I like, I I think,

one, I people are teaching this, and he associated with some things that I would totally agree with. And so that's the problem. It's stuff like, we gotta be discerning here. And so I kinda wanna talk through some of those things and some of the examples and just just be cautious around like, this you gotta be a good bible. You gotta be able to understand your bible correctly. You can't just use it as a whim to go talk about the thing that you value, which is what happened. And so, anyway, I wanna talk about that. Also, there was

Hills there was a did you guys see this this school that showed the Michelangelo, and the parents got real pissed? No. Okay. It says a renowned private Christian college in Michigan has severed its ties with the Florida charter school after the principal was forced to resign when parents complained that students were exposed to pornography during a lesson on Renaissance art that included Michelangelo's

David statue. Oh, come on, man. Long and short of the saying, they saw a marble weenus connected to David, Michelangelo's David, and said it's porn. Did you intentionally say long and short of this because you were talking about

I don't get those channels. Okay. Sorry. Anyway, the Tallahassee Classical School had a license to use Hillsdale Hillsdale College's k through 12 curricular materials, but has since been revoked and will expire at the end of the school year. In response to a request for comment from the Christian Post, a spokesman for Hillsdale College provided its public statement saying its partnership with schools are founded upon a mutual understanding about the aims of education.

Education is a cooperative endeavor between students, parents, and teachers. Discretion, good judgment, and prudence are essential for that endeavor to be successful. To set the record straight, this drama around teaching Michelangelo's David sculpture, one of the most important work of art in existence, has become a distraction from and a parody of the actual aims of classical education. Of course, Hillsdale k through 12 art curriculum includes Michelangelo's David and other works of art that depict the human form. So it's it's curriculum from a Christian college that is other that a charter school is using.

They used it to try to teach Renaissance art. Some parents or a parent I'm not not quite sure clearly, complained that this is pornography, and the principal had to resign. That's ridiculous. Like, here's the question.

Is there any prudence in protecting your kids from exposure to what you would say is Renaissance or classical art that often I mean, you're way more likely to see a set of breasts than you are to see a a penis. That's true. And so, like, I guess, Mike, did you ever did you ever any concerns exposing any of that I keep using the words again. I don't get those channels, Buva. Exposing your children to these types of things. No. No.

There's here's the thing. It's like this it's it's so odd that this is coming from, like, a dude's perspective. Right? But, like, young men, whether it's drawn with a pencil or an actual live set Yep. They are extremely excited about anything that could possibly maybe even have a hint of looking like a breast. Right. Yeah. But I never lusted after the Venus de Milo when I was 14. Never. Never. Right? Now you take ladies in the opposite end,

like, ask them point blank. They don't even find this particular part of a man's body alluring in any way. I think it's hysterical. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, I here's all I can say to this. It's like, if if a parent saw or thought that it was pornographic, it was not hidden at all that they were gonna go see Michelangelo's David. Everybody knows that Michelangelo's David is a naked statue of a dude with a thing.

And so if you let your kid go and then decided to be turned around and be mad about it later, that's extremely childish. Well, were they were they going to see the David, or was it just a part of the curriculum? Picture in the curriculum. That's what I was thinking too. Yeah. Oh, I thought they wouldn't, like, visited. No. No. Traveling. No. I I think it's just not even near as bad. Right. Yeah. I think it's just make the thing out. Here's the deal. Look at look at Renaissance. Actually, actually, look at, like, the the the the art that came out of the Renaissance. First off, you'd be surprised how much of that was commissioned by the church. Oh, yeah. Like, that was the church that was happening. Like, that's why you have so many, like, angelic and demonic paintings. You've got things that were, like, paintings of Jesus that are super famous and became a big deal from the Renaissance and things like that. Like, it was it was the opening of art. It was the Renaissance of what it was to to understand the human form. That's why that was a thing. It was a study of the human form as art could portray it. It was never meant to be pornographic.

It wasn't at that time. It isn't now. It was meant to be a study of how can we represent beauty as God created it through our own hands. Yeah. I I think there is there is a there's a prudence in protecting how people use and misuse their bodies or each other's bodies. But like basic

education around like, I'm just not concerned at all. I have I have three girls and one dude, and I've never been concerned that these kids would take in a penis somewhere in a statue or whatever. Like, I mean, they are what they are. Right. I I guess, like, you're protecting I think there is there are like I said, there are things to be prudent about, but, like, actually, it's one of the safest ways to have some discussions with children around some of these things. Yeah. And and, like, again, it's it's in the eye of the beholder. We're we're having, you know, ankle and neck issues in the Muslim world because of what's what's hidden from them. And so although I'm not like freely show everything to all the children all the time,

I do think there is a prudence to or a wisdom in making sure children are educated about they understand how the bodies work. It doesn't feel they don't walk into life not understanding basic things that God has created, the goodness of which he's created. Like, I get this. It's a sensitive line, but this doesn't seem it's not pornographic. Right. Like, it's not. It's nudity,

but it's not it's not implying anything. It's not pointing toward darn it. It's not trying to draw anybody into any type of behavior or whatever. I it's you. I don't get the channels, Buva. Yeah. I didn't say think of everything phallic that could possibly exist. I just said the long and short of it was a funny way to say that as you're talking about David's David. That's I every time I look over there, I just presume you're thinking something euphemistic. Is it a did you say two balls in the air at once. It was a it was a k through 12 class. Like Yeah. So, like, it was the whole class, like kindergarten up to the seniors. That's a weird thing for a five year old to have to go through. They they can't can't figure out the color wheel yet. Oh. That should be their art class. Right. But, like, you're also not you're not parading in a naked guy for a still life and going recreate

David or Michelangelo's David. Good job. Well and that's not this it's for a five year old, the problem isn't that it's it's somehow worse or more naughty. Right. It's not like they're gonna get no value out of Exactly. They're gonna look at that and go, okay. That that means absolutely nothing to me. Yes. Yeah. Your five year old is hopefully not getting anything sexual from any part of their their curricula. Yeah. Now I know I think one of the rubs was, hey. Did did you not give the parents a heads up? I'm like and they didn't. But, I mean Would you have expected a heads up if your kid was in public school? No. And that school had an art class about Renaissance art for them to give you a call and go, alright, mister blah blah blah, just a heads up. In three weeks from now, we're gonna go ahead and show the the statue of Michelangelo's David. Okay. Now here's the question, because what's

good for the goose is delicious for the gander. If you have if this seems okay at the school's discretion now it's a charter school, so, like, presumably, it's bound in some way or another by some sort of moral belief system. But how there have been a number of incidences within the state of Iowa over the last year with complaints about the types of books that are in the library. And so the same question would apply. Do or is it okay then to say books of some nature or another,

like we don't need to give the parents a heads up and it's the school's discretion about what they provide and your kids just need to kind of stay out of it. Because I mean, some of these things like blushing, the governor read one as to make an example and like these are words I don't use and have never used in all my life, the types of things that they're talking about. And like some of the some of the books were targeted for young adults and they're talking about like mutual masturbation and they're talking about like underage, like severely underage sexual activity

and in very graphic terms. Gotcha. And there've been a significant number of protests to go, why do these even need to be in a school library? Is it necessary for this to be covered here? Can't you leave this realm of things for homes to handle and could could naked renaissance painting not fall into that category? Yeah. I mean, I suppose I would say no. It doesn't fall in that category. But, I mean, as a parent, you get to make those decisions. Right? Like, there's kids that opted out of health class when I was in in high school. Right? They're like, yeah. I don't want my kid going through that. We'll teach them that stuff at home. And so I guess it it depends on how involved you want to be with your

kid's school. Right? So, like, if if you're concerned about it, then you should ask, and the school should blank be able to tell you, yes. This is the curriculum. This is what we're gonna go through. In the past, we've had some people that are a little leery of this, just so you know. So, like, if the school's not trying to be shady about it. Yeah. And Right. And you went up and asked, then this problem would have been averted. But what I don't think you get to do is use the the school as, a day care. And then when you find out that things aren't going exactly how you thought because you didn't even think about it, you didn't even ask, you didn't care enough to want to know, and then a thing happened. You can't go, well, I can't believe this happened. Like, you totally would've known. Right. I think they would've told you they have a curriculum set out for the year. They knew they were gonna use it. Mhmm. Interesting. Yeah. Like, I as I take in what you said about, like, the books in the library, like, you know, my my 12 year old reading 50 Shades of Grey that was at, you know, my school's library, I feel is different than than, you know, them on or going through a class on on Renaissance art and then seeing David or, Michelangelo's David. I feel like that's different. Now as I'm thinking through that, I'm trying to find what the difference is for me. One, I believe I don't think the curricula was was covering

those books. I'm sure they were just available at the library, which I might disagree with that even being available because What do you need it for? Right? Yeah. Exactly. Right. Like, if it's you know, you can argue many books can be educational as a part of a curriculum to, like, understand literature and understand, you know, literary devices, and this is this type of book and Yep. Use this to expand your imagination that helps you take on real world situations with a more expanded imagination through reading books about dragons or whatever. Right? I don't know if that would ever extend in my mind to allowing smut books or whatever you wanna call them or or pornographic books as I would I would describe them. So what's interesting is that, like, because something about your moral compass would say, hey, there's a line to draw here. A lot of the arguments, especially for the books that are in in the libraries that they say, well, I mean, don't kids need to know about masturbation and about their bodies and like, otherwise, they're exploring out their own. It's creating risk. And so, like, here's the thing. And I mean, obviously I'd like to protect kids from taking in crapola as much as possible, but like, you have to recognize that from their perspective, this feels like education to them. And it feels like, hey, you're turning out kids into a world where they don't understand themselves, their bodies, they're gonna do it anyway. Can you at least help them feel like have an exposure to it that is natural or that like doesn't just have them do it out in the wild? And so like, it's a common,

we have a societal gap that will not be easily fixed because if you allow other people or government structure to be part of educating children, then you have to be willing to recognize that that will not necessarily reflect your morals. Exactly. Yes. And to Mike's point, then, like, there's there's good and righteous regions to do that, but, I mean, you have to, like like, extra innings parent something because you're not doing it yourself. Yep. Or we like to call that regular parenting. Parenting. But but but, like, that's the thing is that, like but your moral outrage

does not make sense. It doesn't logically follow because you know that that that this thing isn't being run how you would run it, and it's full of a mixture of views and the things like the winds of society shift to say, hey. Look. I think kids are gonna have sex at 14. We should put books in the library to help them do it safely and put the condom dispenser in there. Right. You might find that to be morally outrageous, but if you recognize where people's worldview is at, it's not inconsistent or illogical. You just the moral lines you don't agree with, and I think you continue to evangelize in those areas, but, like, the shock I'm not following. Right. I've just it doesn't doesn't like, I understand. I logically follow why these things are happening. Yeah. No. That makes sense. If you're farming out the responsibility of all the education of your children to a government entity or another party, a private school or a school. Pick one. Right. Yeah. Pick one that isn't you.

You've given away your ability to be shocked by what they might be showing everyone in their curriculum. Like and also on the other front of that, like, if you are doing your due diligence as a parent and educating your children at home as well and preparing them through this kind of stuff and having real conversations that work at the level that they're at, They won't go to a class and see, you know, Michelangelo's David and then just be taken aback and their whole world gets shattered. If you prepare them and build them up in good ways and send them out if public education is necessary for your home life or whatever, I don't care, then you still have a job to do at home that will allow these things to not be grenades in their minds.

Like, it doesn't have to wreck them if they are are exposed to a statue penis. Like, it it doesn't have to break everything if you are putting in groundwork at home so that all of their educational system besides do your chores or you'll get grounded. Like, there's gotta be more at home that gets done. We we're only farming out this stuff from a public education k through 12 perspective for, like, two hundred years as a society,

if that. Mhmm. Like, it's not the norm. The thing is is, like, it likes to get boiled down to an age conversation, but, like, there's things that they are exposing kids to that I shouldn't be exposed to. Yeah. Right? There's adverse there's adverse effects on on especially when it comes in the sexual realm. Right? Like, there's there's expectations of the way that a partner will react or how they should react or how you're how you're what you're owed. Like, what like, we'd like to point at porn and say, look. This is it that's most damaging because most of it is centered on the male perspective and how the male would receive pleasure and all this stuff. Right? Like and it builds, like, a completely unrealistic Yeah. Thing in a man's mind, and it also tends to to have women look at, like, oh, this is this is what I should be. This is what I look like. My value comes from. And, like, it's and it's ridiculous. It's not even close to reality. Right? And so so you're doing the same thing by exposing a 14 year old who has

a 13 to 14 year old. Like, there's a range of ages in there where they are may or may not even be sexually attracted to anything. Mhmm. Right? Like, they're just not sexual beings yet. And so, like, to to set an age for it or say, like, yeah, this is appropriate. It's not appropriate for me to read 50 shades of gray because it's not it's not fair for me to take whatever's in that book and then and then lay it over the top of my life and go Yep. Oh, well, my marriage is lacking because it doesn't have whatever this is, or my marriage is whatever because of the way that these people are reacting. Like, it's not healthy for you anyway.

And so the the question is is is not whether I suppose parents can go, yes. I would like my kids exposed to this blah blah blah blah blah. The age thing is really not much of a concern, which this is where your parenting comes in. Right? Part of me part of me believes that, like, if you shelter them too much, they're gonna think you're lying to them. Yes. Right? If you don't if you don't share facts with your kids and talk about it frankly and use the right words for heaven's sakes, right, like, body parts and and say their names and talk about what happens and, you know, like, if you don't if you're too awkward to have that conversation, someone else will have it with them. Right? And, like, you're the one that gets to set the expectations and the realities out there and go, listen. You cannot like, interesting. I know it piques your interest because it's you don't know much about it. But here's the thing. Right? There's consequences into some of the in some of the ideas they're putting out. Yeah. And I think it's healthy and loving to have these conversations with your children about what sex was intended to be. Like, obviously, you know, deal I I I know you say age doesn't drive it so much, but, like, deal with whatever works for their their level of understanding and things. Like, you don't need to go into the full conversation to your six year old. But, like, this is a right thing that God has given us, and there's a right realm to take it in. Intimacy is not a problem. It's not taboo in the way that God has designed it, and there is a beauty in that action and being

presented that in a healthy and constructive way to start building that wall to go, like, the world is gonna tell me that sex is something and that all things that involve sex or something, pornography is gonna tell me something. My buddies in a tree house are gonna tell me something with a penthouse magazine, whatever. If they have been built up by you and and your spouse loving them to, like, build them up in a way that, like, this is something beautiful that God has given people who are in covenant with him, and this is the right way to look at this. It's not a scary thing. It's not taboo. It's not doesn't need to be uncomfortable. It's just a thing that we do because God loves us, and it's our way of continuing that and and and building families that can then fall in line with furthering his kingdom and and our new people that can love him. And it's something that they go they don't just walk into this vacuum and then get assaulted with curriculum from their public school. They go, I've been talking to mom and dad about that for years. I know what god calls that, and I know what that's supposed to be. I'm comfortable with that. That's fine. Whatever. It's not a grenade getting dropped in my brain to cause problems twenty years from now, and it's not something that colors sex and intimacy as a problem to go, I should be ashamed of my body, and I should only be existing

in these realms and whatever perversions come from that. Like, that starts at home where you can build that up and make it to be a thing that is holy and good for God. And good thing. Right? And, like yes. The thing the thing that that we always it always gets lost in the conversation, but, like, you're settling for less joy. Right. You're settling for like, god did not design the thing because he wants to hide whatever's in 50 shades of gray from you. Right? Like, he knows they exist. He says there's there's not there's not as much joy there as the thing I'm offering. There's nothing new under the sun Like like like, the thing that you're trying to pursue, you can get happy. Right. You're also gonna get you're gonna get tied to shame, and that's not what I want for you. I want you to have freedom and joy, and that's what he's offering. And, like, doesn't matter how much happy and shame you tie together, it never ends up being freedom and joy. And so the the thing that God's pointing people to, right, is is complete freedom, complete joy in the thing that he's created, and it gets lost in the conversation as if God is trying to hide some of the outskirts of sexual activity from you. He is definitely not. He is definitely not trying to hide that from you. He's just saying this is where all the joy comes from and the freedom comes from, and this is where I suggest you go. Yeah. And we look at it at like like, the conversation just gets skewed. And so, like, to get back to the David thing, like, if your family has a problem with nudity being introduced by the school, I whatever. I maybe I blame you. Maybe I don't. I mean, whatever. It's you get to run that at your house. But, like, what you can't do is is armchair quarterback thing

because you didn't care to ask. Right? You had like, if you thought, oh, well, I didn't think the school would ever show the picture of statue of David to my kid who's in second grade. Yeah. Maybe you did. Maybe you didn't. But, I mean, you're asking the kids what's going on? Are are you checking in with them? Do you know what their curriculum is? Because you can certainly ask those questions. You do today? Talk about it at home at dinner. You can go, okay. Well, you took that in. Let's talk about what that is. Think that's what happened, and that's what made the person upset. I I like, just I mean, you need to react in proper proportion here. If it's not for you, I get that. But, like, can you recognize that maybe other people might not have the same problem? Like, the dude doesn't have a job anymore. Principal doesn't have a job anymore because you because you're like, well, we should have been should have been notified ahead of time, and my and my kid was exposed to porn. I mean, like, what are we doing? If it's a if it's, like, a chartered school using Christian curriculum for the most part, like, this this is where we wanna start setting some fires. Like, if you it sounds like a conversation, but not a but not a a bomb. Yeah. And so I yeah. Yeah. So you pulled out your Christian curriculum and and told and fired the principal. Now what is the school gonna do? Like, are they just gonna go find another curriculum to put in there? And then you've really changed the lives of everybody involved? Congratulations. By that, I mean, you just got somebody fired?

Yeah. I yeah. I guess, like, you handle yourself appropriately. Proactive parent and handle yourself appropriately within right proportion. Like, this just seems goofy. Yeah. And, like, what's the worst you could have to tell Your kid's gonna come home and say, hey. I saw a penis. I saw a 4,000 year old penis. And you're like, what? And you're like, okay. Well, here's the thing. You know, a lot of statues are done that way. That's along with the time period. Like, it's it's not depicted in, like, a dirty or sexual manner, but, like, that is what the human form looks like. Do you have any questions about that? And make sure you keep your kid away from all museums forever. Just a heads up. Yeah. You're gonna see plenty of stuff. There's a lot of top half nudity in the museums, man. Even your low rent one. Again, Venus de Milo is just four spheres. Why do why are why are you okay with old nudity

where if someone, like, had had painted a picture, like or taken a photograph of a completely naked dude and put it up in a in a museum that was life size tall, you would have been like, woah. It's a great question. Also stay out of Buca de Beppo. Actually, so I saw a modern when are we about Mike Mike, do you remember was this going on when you were there? So we went to the the National Museum in London, and there was one of the art installations,

and it was like a video of a guy with a with a headgear on and boxing in the naked, just throwing punches. No. Naked.

You don't remember that? Okay. Exposed to the wind. Right. And I looked at it. I'm like, I don't I mean, I don't get it. I don't understand why we're doing this. I don't understand most of it anyway. But then I thought, ugh. I mean, I I get I guess, I mean, if my kids saw it, they'd probably just laugh and go, what the heck is that? Why is that guy in the nude boxing? But, like, they have a little brother. And so, like, his I mean, that man is in his glory, like, 90% of the time. I came home I came home for bringing a kid home from, like, softball practice tonight, and he's just he's got some kinda I don't even know where he got this multicolored strobe light, and he's like, dance party, and he's in the buckeye nude. I said, what are you even doing? Well, he was supposed to be, like, he wanted it to he proposed that he was gonna take a bath. It's not a bath night. It's not time for him to scrub. But, like, he he pro he went most he went all the way there. That way, like, they would seal the deal. And it took him probably forty minutes to get him wrangled back into a pair of underpants Yeah. And and, you know, rehone the joint. And but, like, nobody cares. Nobody cares because it's just a dude running around the house, like, in in a non he's not I mean, he even does, like, some things where you're like, oh, you should stop. You know, he'll do, he'll do some Elvison around. And, like, dude, knock that off. You gotta stop it. But, like, nobody notices it but me. Yeah. You know why? Because it's in a nonsexual context. Right. Right? And that's the same that's true with the statue of David. It's not in a sexual context. It was never meant to be sexual. It was just it was literally just this is the human form. And, like, this is this is the pinnacle of physique as this culture saw it, and that represented beauty. It had nothing to do with sexual nature.

It most cultures wouldn't see it that way anyway. You look at many cultures that have legit fertility statues. Like, that's when all the curves are, like, insanely voluptuous and everything phallic is, like, monster sized because it's not meant to be like, oh, bigger is better. It's meant to be accentuation of of what's actually important to fertility. Yeah. We, as a culture, take things in sexually, pervertedly,

more than most cultures ever did. That's right. From any kind of Greek culture, Roman culture, Egyptian, things like that. When you see that stuff, it was meant to be, guess what, guys? It's spring. It's no longer cold out. We're not dying from whatever weather is around. Let's mate and continue our species, and that's beautiful. I think that's the right. I think that especially Western culture, we take everything. Everything is sexualized. Right? So even things that aren't sexual, we're taking it and sexualized. And so if you show up with nudity,

then automatically it is sexualized. Now I I'm stuck in my own caveat here. Right? Like like a straight up picture of a naked dude, I would like heads up before my kids saw that. Right? Like, of an of an actual human, for some reason, I take that indifferent. You you know? And I don't know why. I'd have to sort through that. But, like, that is my right as a as a parent, though. Again, I guess it's to nature. Don't know if that's a great idea. Yeah. Yep. Anyway, yeah, the the the it was an overreaction. Okay. Hey. You're listening live from the path. Maybe let us like, I don't know, underreaction, overreaction. How have you thought about or what is your experience in exposing your kids to art of which nudity is involved? What are your concerns? Or, like, how early is too early or whatever? I'd be interested in your thoughts. Can get a hold of something Life in the Path complaint line. Old Bobby Eisenhower

says give us a call. (515) 517-0085 or text (515) 517-0085. I did see what was it this week or last week? Bob Eisenhower is like a realtor of the realtor of the year. He's always realtor of realtor? Came in again. Yeah. Bob Eisenhower. If you'd like to hit us up on the Bob Eisenhower life from the faith complaint line, we'd love to hear from you too. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know how you're doing. Okay. Okay. So Mike and I are at this dude's dude's conference. And, like, sometimes these are good. Like, it's a good time to have just a bunch of fellows in the room to hear a bunch of fellows, like, worship and stuff together. And

but there have been multiple times where I've been to a dudes conference and I walked away going, ugh. Yeah. I don't wanna be the kind of man that was just discussed on the stage. And so, Mike, maybe I'll I'll give you some room to speak here too. But, like, I the the general the general position here was, I think, an encouragement of, like, well, men, you need to step up. Okay. You got my vote. I'm with you on that. But the type of man that is being encouraged to step up and the picture of Jesus that was painted in real like, as an example,

I just scripturally couldn't get there. So, Michael, I don't know. Like, what did you hear that you felt like, ah, I just would've taken that in wrong? So the two the two major points that I remember walking away from is one of his points was when they were handing out curses, and he was talking about, you know, Eve had had sinned. And he goes, now now now notice what Adam gets cursed for because he listened to his wife. Oh, jeez. That was the big ringer

because the man is supposed to be the head of the household, and he's the one supposed to be leading his family. And the fact that he listened to his wife, he allowed his wife to speak into the equation, then that was a mistake. That was what he was cursed for. I'm like, what? What? What? Second, his he he liked to point that, like, as Jesus was the head of the church,

right, that man is head of the marriage. Right? And and, like, his authority is not to be questioned. And, like, if you need to tell people to shut up, you do it. You don't back down from good things. And, like, okay. Here's the thing. I can I'm I'm kinda with you a little bit. Your marriage relationship is different than that. You know? Like, if you wanna say, like, we say we say things with truth and love like Jesus did, and we don't back down from those things for opinions of others. Yes. I can agree with that. Mhmm. But he was trying to roll it into the context of like, if if basically, he said if you're if there's a decision to be made and you and your wife disagree,

you tell your wife to sit down and be quiet, and you make that decision. I'm like, what if she's right? Oh my gosh. Been in a marriage for a long time. I'm so I'm glad every once in my wife goes, I don't think that's a great idea. And I'm like, well, why not? And then she explains it to me, and I go, well, good. Yeah. Sounds right. That was a bad idea that I was gonna go ahead and shove my way into. So that's the that was a general tone. Yeah. And he was and he was he had a subscriptural references. The one about Adam and Eve was that was the one where I just kinda started spacing out. I'm like, holy cow. This is terrible. Now to to to right size that. Right? Like and and this is more of, like, I'm not a 100% sir certain, but I feel like I'm pretty good pretty right in this is as it pertains to the marriage covenant, first off, Jesus is the head of the covenant. Right? Like, he's the one who has the authority in that.

Is as the head of that portion of of the covenant that the man is, the man is accountable for the decisions and and and issues that happened. Yeah. Not just the one that leads and therefore makes the choices. Yeah. It is you're not the the king of this because you're the one who is always right, and therefore, you're the one who gets to, you know, throw the hammer around. Right? It's if there's problems, you are the one held accountable in that covenant. Which is the exact thing that happens in the Garden of Eden after sin occurs. Yes. God comes looking for Adam. Yes. Exactly. Right. Yeah. It has nothing to do with, like, you bring the hammer, and therefore, all choices have to go through you. It is god will look at the covenant that you joined with another woman to him on, right, that, like, it screws up. You're the one accountable for this piece Yeah. Because there has to be someone that can stand in the fire. Now the minute you hand out responsibility, you do give out some sense of authority because if I'm responsible, then I gotta be the guy who goes, because I'm responsible, I'm gonna make sure that we make the right decision. Right? Or but, like, this is this is where it gets twisted. So the guy referenced Ephesians five and he's like, you need to love your wife, Christ loves the church. And the way that he took it was to go, and Jesus was the king of the church and he was not undermined and he did not tolerate people throwing him off his course when he was saying true things. And he died on the cross because he said things that made people mad and they killed him for it. And like, that is the shallowest rendering of of that theology that like, you didn't you're not even trying. Like so but yes. Yes. Here's the problem is and I told this to Mike at the time is that, 10% of what this man is saying is true, but even the dangerous. 10 even the 10% that was true was in the wrong context. Yeah. So

when Paul's talking about love your wife like Christ loves the church, what's he pointing at? Well, Christ loves the church by sacrificing and dying for it. Yep, serving it. Right, in service, in feet washing, nail on the cross. I know that you're gonna curse me and I'm still gonna do this for you because I will suffer for your reconciliation to what is right and to what is good. Yeah. Right. If if if he was the kind of the jackwagon that this man was proposing, he would have refused to be crucified. Like, why would I allow you guys to bully me around? Right? I'm the king here. It's

just the wrong now, I mean, is Jesus king? Of course he is. Of course he is. Did he allow Pharisees, Sadducees, nonbelievers to throw him off of the things that he wanted to say and talk about? Well, no. Of course not. But, like,

I I didn't see him. The only people I saw him do any type of aggression towards were the people that were misusing God's temple. It wasn't a human relationship problem. Okay? It was someone who perversely trying to profit and otherwise circumvent what people believed and understood about God through the process of sacrifice.

Okay. And like my biggest problem, I have a problem with the representation of how men are to lead in their like, I would agree it's more of a responsibility and it's a sacrificial loving one that is constantly trying to restore the brokenness around him,

not dictate to it. But like he uses that and says, it's men are to be this way because Jesus was this way. And that's where we're getting into blasphemous territory because you're misrepresenting the character of God to otherwise emphasize your desire to have a a worldly dominance over the people underneath you. Yeah. How can I make the story of Christ glorify me and my decisions in the way that I want to be chauvinistic in my own relationship and household? Yes. Now here's the thing. Here's here's why I have some sympathy with it. Far too many men far too many men take no responsibility for their house. Right. They defer everything to their wives who and this is the point he got right. Men tend to be shortsighted and narrow. Women tend to be able to balance all kinds of things. We've talked about that on the show. I agree with that. Right. But the problem is is that men bail from that, and then all the load ends up on the wife to raise the children, to manage the household, to babysit this rambling doofus who don't want to take no responsibility for his life and they're just constantly deferring and and now the weight

of the thing that is supposed to be distributed amongst a married couple now falls entirely on a woman. Right. And and that and and that is a failure. That is a men's failure. And there are times, guys, there are times when you are in a loving relationship and, like, the two of you just don't agree. And, like, someone's gotta be the person who goes, we have to do something. We have to make a decision somewhere. Now but you tell me this. Does king Jesus look out at the world and he goes, you all suck, and we're gonna do what I wanna do, And I don't care if it I don't care if you're pissed off or this breaks relationship. No. No. And here's how I know that. It's not because he needs our advice. Of course, he doesn't. He does know the right things to do. Jesus cheats.

He Jesus Jesus he what is this example? He goes he said something like, you ever see Jesus apologize? Jesus cheats. Jesus never had to apologize. Your humble tale, however Right. Exactly. Has got to learn to pull it together. He was perfect in all things. You were most certainly not. That's not you. Right? So that's not that's not the right comparison. But, like, here's what I know is that Jesus comes and walks the earth in sympathy for the humanity that has a sin problem, in demonstration

of an example that we need to understand. That is a grace. Right. It is a grace that we get to see the outworkings of a miracle. It is a grace that we get to see through the nation of Israel, through Jesus himself, what people look like in a relationship with God of which he is actively participating in their lives so that we may follow and do those types of things that's given to us. An example, I talked about this, I think like a few months ago, but like when, when Jesus said, how often do you forgive? Your boundary would be much shallower unless he dies on the cross. Yeah. That gives you a bit like, now you recognize that wherever you were gonna draw the line, you're not even close. And and these are graces. And so this is, this is God going, I understand your human condition. I understand the fallibilities that you're up against. I understand the sin that is pervasive into your lives. And that's why Jesus comes in the way that he does, walks the earth. Right? And so I know that Jesus doesn't just go around going, yeah, I'm the king and you will not undermine me. And if you do, I will destroy you. He gave this doofus. He gives the example.

He goes, just think of how God dealt with the nation of Israel. I said, well, let's talk about that. Let's see how God dealt with the nation of Israel. He he busts them out of Egypt. Uh-huh. Sends a wind to part the waters. They casually walk across it. No problem. They get, I don't know, a week, maybe two weeks outside of this area and they go, God, we're hungry. Why wouldn't you just let us die of starvation in Egypt? Okay? Who's pissed about this? Moses is pissed. The human. The human leader is there, and he's mad. Right. How could these ungrateful people, what does God do? He sends food. Yeah. He sends the quail. Same thing happens. Water. Multiple times water. Yeah. God, there's no water here. Cast it on the stone. Who gets pissed? Moses gets pissed. How could these people wave this way? Wacky ole of the water. Right? God provided. He takes the you take the log in Meribah, and now it becomes something that they can drink. Right? You the the the rock gets smacked. They have water to drink. In the presence of their grumbling,

which undermines the very character of what God just demonstrated in front of them, God gave them food and water. Adam and Eve sin against him. He's kicks them out of the garden. What does he do? He makes them the clothes. So like now, yes, yes. Is there a time where when they start worshiping other gods,

the hand gets stayed because Moses prays and said, God, please don't. Don't do this. Right? Was there a punishment from God? Yes, there was. But that's not the same thing. Your human grumbling, your undermining of like God's provision is not the same thing as you've actively looking at a golden cow and going, This God saved me. That was the problem there. Now go the big extreme. Go to the exile. Okay? Get exiled. Two different places they get exiled.

What is the constant promise of scripture? I'm bringing you back home. I haven't left you. That's right. Even where you are now, I still am. I didn't leave And so like this guy told a story where it was a friend of his head and this story made me freaking pissed already because he's like, guy's got two kids. And then he says, he's got an adopted son. This is kid number three. I'm like, why didn't you just say he had three kids? I had three kids. Yeah. Why would you tell a story like this stupid?

Anyway, third kid is in jail. I don't know why. Okay. Husband and wife go to visit the kid and whatever's going on, the husband is saying something, the wife interjects and sounds like maybe correct something that the husband has said or tries to add to the conversation. Husband tells her to shut up. Okay.

Son gets pissed, comes over, starts beating the dad up. Guy goes, he was abused in prison. I'm like, he just beat him up. That's what he did. He starts to beat the guy up. Okay? This comedian dude is counseling the fella. And his advice is, he's like, well, the dude who got beat up goes, yeah, I

should have said it differently. I should have I need to apologize to my wife, blah, blah, He's like, no, hold on a minute. What are you apologizing for? He's like, well, if I shoulda you know, maybe I shoulda said it differently or whatever. He's like, did she need to shut up? Yes. Well, then what are you apologizing for? Oh, he's on fire. What is wrong with this guy? This no. Yes. Yes. This is what I'm saying. You and you're like, what? Now here's the thing. You want a tough marriage situation.

Sometimes sometimes between the two of you, somebody needs to go, hey, man. You really gotta tuck that down. Right. You gotta tuck that down. But, like, here's the thing. Jesus led us by example. Right? Not by force. Your and, like, I I know when you're responsible, and sometimes that responsibly means you have to

make things happen. But like, are we really saying that the way that Jesus looks at the world against those who are struggling to act rightly in it but desire to is to be aggressive like that, forceful like that, demeaning like that. Right.

Disrespectful. Right. And like humble now I I get it. Jesus does not does not humble himself by apologizing because he doesn't have to apologize, But in ways in which he didn't, his kingliness would never have required, he humbles and walks the earth as a man. He washes the dirty, nasty, crap covered feet of his disciples as a man. He endures indignities

that that only criminals endure in humility and service to the people around them. And so you're gonna tell me that your example is to say, I lead like king Jesus because I told my wife she could shut up in that room? Right. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And the big one of the big disappointments to me here was that, like, you know what a room full of guys needs encouraged as? Is that, like, we're dropping the ball. We're not serving our world and families around me. You do need to grow a pair. You do need to have some grit and courage. You do need to actively lead your family and take that responsibility

seriously. And, like, some of the things, the themes that this man is getting at were totally right, except for he pointed me to a fake Jesus, which then tells me not how to act correctly within his kingdom for in the things that I'm responsible for as a man. Yeah. Get a backbone, but don't let it come from a place of you're the tough, strong person in your relationship. Let it come from the place of love. Like, your backbone conversations about taking a stand and being a real man should not come from anywhere but understanding that that is another part of loving the people around you. Loving the people that are in your family, loving the marriage that you're in, loving the people that are around you. That is your commandment is to love them, not pansy your way around stuff and and and

not have a backbone or whatever, but, like, the love of that is to go, hey, man. You're screwing up, and we've gotta deal with this because there's a way to do this right, and god has called us to that. That's where my hand gets firm is to go, we need to find our place where we're following Christ in this and being honoring to the king and being part of the kingdom. Not, hey. You better shut up because I spoke, and I am the authority here. That's ridiculous. Like, that's just ridiculous. That's that is that is a a 20% rendering of a full message,

and and it's ridiculous. Yeah. I think I think the big thing is is, right, is, like, if you love you love your wife like Christ loved the church and, like, the sacrifice things, the whole thing. Yeah. Right? Like like, you just cannot fathom that king Jesus came down on purpose to set an example for humanity to live in. But, like, he's a legit king, like creator of the world king, and let people,

like, curse him and beat him and, like, nail him to a like, he he had to tolerate none of this. Right. Like, none of this. And so the thing like, how how far he lowered himself is infinitely farther than he's asking you to lower yourself. You're not king of anything. Yeah. Right? Like how you hear that story and then find yourself in the place where you think that that the comparison between you and Jesus is is I'm a king in this moment. Never once does God call you a king of anything. Yeah. Like, God is greater and holy, holy, holy set apart who humbled himself to become lesser and lower

so that he can live this experience to show us what it really supposed to look like and sacrifice lovingly for us, but never to put up us up on a pedestal. Like, that was never the move to make things. Like, I always think of the this is not a it doesn't stand up under scrutiny, but you're gonna have to let it pass. But I always think about it as as, like, me owning an ant farm. And, like, I can see what they're doing, and I see that their tunnel structure is gonna cause them a whole bunch of trouble. Right? And so, like, I make myself into an ant to go down and show them how it was done. And I go into the ant farm, and they turn on me. And, like, I'm the one that feeds them. I give them ant food. Right? But I see what's causing them the broken. And I'm like, I'm a go down and help them fix it. And I show up, and I start telling them truths about how to build tunnels and how to live life in the farm, and they they decide to kill me. And, like, would I ever tolerate that? Right? Like, I would just turn myself not to be an ant anymore. You know what? You idiots are on your own. Any moment. I'm a human, by the way. I'm stronger than all of you and above all of you. I can crush this all. Stop trying to tell me I'm wrong and hurt me. Jesus is just like, nope. This is where I'm at. And he stays. He stays in the ant form and gets crucified to show you exactly what it looks like to be a sacrificial

ant leader. Right. You know? And so, like, if if if that metaphor stands, if he says love your wife like Christ loved the church, that's what that looks like. Like, of I'm in authority here. Right? You're going to listen to me. You know who people follow? People who are leading. Right? If you're if if you're taking the responsibility

of leading your family, your family will follow that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what it looks like. You're you know, it's not it's not a job title. Uh-huh. Just like deacon. It's not a job title. It's a responsibility. Right. Yeah. And when you take it, like, when you are actively involved in your family and you are not sitcom dadding over here on a on a recliner watching your wife legit juggle everything that you both agreed to. Right? Like like, you both, as a family, agreed to buy the house, buy the car, have kids, have responsibilities, be on this committee or whatever. And, like, she's organizing the whole thing. She's planning the whole thing. She's making sure if so and so is getting here, and you're just like, where are we going? You know what I'm saying? Like, you're bailing on this. Right. You are not sacrificially

living. And in all practicality, you know what's interesting? When you look into marriages of men that are actually attempting to love like Jesus did and are attempting to lead as as the the person who is accountable for the covenant that they're in in their marriage. Right? They're they're they're they are a safety for their wives. They are a safe space and a peaceful place for their wife and children to come to. They are loving their kids wholeheartedly and not satellite dadding and coming home from an eight to five and thinking, my job's done. I'm glad my wife is here to raise my children. If you are an actual man of Christ that follows the example that Jesus leads, do you wanna see what your family starts to actually look like? Like, you're you're in a place where because of of your emulation of what Jesus is and what Jesus was supposed to or what you were supposed to represent of Christ in your household,

You don't have a crazy family that runs rampant and goes over all over the place. You have a wife that feels loved and appreciated and safe, and you are her peace. You have children who see parents that get along and understand each other. They may not have everything down pat, and nothing's perfect, and they may argue from time to time, whatever, but your kids see a marriage where I know my dad loves my mom, and I know my mom adores and loves my dad, and I wanna follow along with this, and I wanna figure out what this looks like. I want this to be true in my relationships and who I am eventually. I wanna follow this Christ person because I recognize what what my father taught me and what my mother taught me and what I saw. It builds strong family relationships that aren't challenged by this kind of stuff, that aren't in a place where, like, you you as a man feel,

undermined in your authority because you can't tell your wife to shut up. Like, you're ridiculous. Yeah. Well You don't need to feel that way if you're loving the way Christ calls you to love and you're living in a marriage the way that Christ designed that marriage to exist, mutually respectful of each other, loving each other, being each other's safety and peace, following after Christ together hand in hand, that kind of stuff, leading children to the water where Christ is at. That is how families thrive and continue and how kingdom work gets done within your household.

And that's the thing is the safety thing. That's a big deal because she has a safe space to be wrong. Yeah. Like, really wrong. So do you. Like, crazy wrong. Right? And, like, you're her safe space to be completely ridiculous wrong, and it didn't change your relationship at all. You disagreed, but it didn't change your relationship. And you get that same safety with her. Like, to to think that, like, you sit on the king the king's throne, and you're never gonna call a ball when it should have been a strike. I don't know how long you've been a dude, but, like, that's all I do. Right. I can recognize it coming a mile away. My wife is refinement for me Yes. To go, hey. You're looking at this wrong. And how beautiful is that when it works that way? How beautiful is it because you can be safe within your marriage because that's what it's called to be. You are in a representation of the relationship that God has with his church by you being a a Christ loving like Christ did to your wife and your wife being there to submit to you as as that calls it. Right? But, like, from the perspective of there's no power struggle, and there's no vacuum of love and care and safety and peace there. It is a it is a cohesive ball that works.

It's not this thing where you're adversarially always punching against each other. It's gonna happen. Yep. But, like, it's safety and it's love, truthful, self sacrificial love because it's not we're fifty fifty here. It's I give a 100 knowing my person that I'm married to is gonna give a 100 right back. I don't have to worry about this fifty fifty crap or I'm I'm, you know, feeling less loved here. It's it's just love incarnate, self sacrificially towards each other and your family. And and I think that one one of the perversions comes from even if you look back at the creation story, there's like, well, Adam's created and then Eve is created from Adam because Lord said it's not good that he should be alone. He needs a helper. And that helper word, you just gotta be real careful with it. That same helper word describes God. It's a feminine. It's a feminine word, but like,

Yahweh even in the Old Testament. And so like, it's a diminishment here. Like, it's not a substandard. It's not a secondary. And so like, again, if your theology is all cranked up wrong, like just because you told the story doesn't mean you got the interpretation correctly and you only told half a story. And so like, you just gotta be super careful on how you start stringing things together to justify the way that you wanna behave in the world. And, like, I I mean, here's the thing. I I mean, you could tell I kind of felt like a vibe of the room was like and and this is what one of the things the guy said was like, hey. I don't want these things to be true. And I laughed and I laughed and I laughed because they're not what you're saying.

Perfect. They're not. Move on. We fixed this problem right there. Now here's the thing. I I do think and whatever. I mean, I if you've you've fallen a bucket of between, like, you know, conservative theology and liberal theology when it comes to marriage, I'm I'm in a pretty conservative bucket. But, like, what I just said, I consider that to be the conservative rendering of the biblical story. Yes. Not some sort of, like, weird, like, American view of what it's like to be a conservative dude or a domineering dude. I'd like this is what the scripture points me to. I where why part company, where I think from a more liberal position is, like, I I I think there's a clear responsibility here. There's an equitableness in there's equality in the marriage as it sits, like between the sacrificing and servicing service

between the men and women. I do but I do think God finds a guy accountable. I think he's responsible for it. Just like I think pastors are not better, bigger than better than anybody in the church, but they have a responsibility. That's the uniqueness And of their so, like, I think they'll I think that's true. I mean, fight me on it, I suppose, but I don't know what the consequence is because here's the thing. I'm probably gonna approach my marriage the same way regardless. Right. Wouldn't I take responsibility for my family anyway? Yep. Like like,

I was thinking about this last week. I should come up with all the examples, but, like, I was thinking about these hot button, like, theological issues that are of no consequence. Like, it was the I was thinking about once saved, always saved stuff. And it just depends on what your theological background, whether you believe it, like, whether you believe that once you once you say yes to king Jesus, that, like, you can't you can't fall out of it. You're eternally saved. Even if you flip God the bird and do whatever the heck you want, you did the things and God saved you because basically your own sin isn't more powerful than God's forgiveness. That's

the right way and why people believe that. But then the, hey, you can lose your salvation tends to come with it falls in two categories. It's one, like, if you will, you start acting like a jackwagon, you weren't saved to begin with. That's how the first bucket deals with people who just run off the reservation. Or the second is, is that like, well, I mean, you can't lose it through your own sinfulness, but you can reject it. You could like, basically, I give

it back. I refuse it. But like, here's the thing, is that like, what do we do? Like, if I believe in bucket one, unless I'm trying to use it for justification to be able to act like a jackwagon, like, what is the what what am I served by knowing what the difference is between don't we have a problem either way? Yeah. That, like, we're posturing for a heavenly reality of which we go, yeah, God. I you have to let me in because I did the things, but, like, totally just I wanted to create a rebellion against you here on earth or in heaven. It doesn't matter to me. Here's my words, but not my heart. You right. And so, like like,

we have a problem either direction. Like, what kind of line are we trying to draw? Neither of them are particularly relevant to me. I feel the same way about predestination. Either I'm predestinate predestined. I don't have any control over it, or I have my own choice. Either way, I I don't have a like, aren't I gonna play things are gonna play out how they are? Because if I don't have a choice, then I can't do anything differently. Like, we spill blood in the church over some of these things. I'm like, to what consequence? Yeah. Like, they just don't have I I'm looking. I'm saying somebody who's smarter than me is gonna go, Ben, if you give that up, then here's three major theological points which are gonna be in contention. I thought about it for a week. So far for those two things, I haven't come up with anything. No. Like, I don't know I don't know what we gained here. I feel like I always explain it to people like like, God is offering you to come live with him for eternity,

but he only wants you there if you wanna be there. Right? He he wants he's inviting you. He says, this is how my eternity is going to work. Would you like to be here? And you get to be with me, and I want to be with you, but this is how it works. If you're gonna show up and, like, not follow any of the things not of the world I designed, you're gonna ruin it. And I'm not gonna let you do that. So would you like to be part of my of my eternity? And, like, he's not, like, banishing you to hell because he's mad at you. Right? He's like, you didn't wanna be here. Like, this is how it works, and you did you said no. And so, like, I see it more often with a tear in his eye, like, but the Bible reads it with a little bit of of wrath, you know, is the word that is usually used. But, like like, when I take it in, I'm like, it's not god made the same offer to everybody. Mhmm. And you and and whether you take it, like, that that's the lose your salvation part. Right? Like, god says this is how eternity is going to work. Would you like to come? And, like, you should probably start getting used to the rules and the way that things run. And, like, you're like, yes. If that's what you say I need to do, god, I would like to behave in that way because I wanna be with you. Absolutely. Right? That's that's yes. I wanna go. You know? But you're not a hostage. You're not a hostage. You don't have to stay. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, it was there was another couple examples. Maybe we'll get to them some other time. Guys talking about church is not well like, everyone's not welcome at the church. I'm like, okay. You missed that. I just I just they I was just so I was so disappointed because there's so many things of which

men need encouraged in strong scriptural things that call them to be better Yeah. For the world around them and for themselves, frankly. What would you pick? What would be the first one you'd fire? I got one. Okay. Yeah. You go. I just thought like, I I think I think the dudes, could you really use some encouragement that it's okay to love without worrying that you're approving? Like, it's okay to love people holy and well without worrying that your love is gonna equal an approval of sin.

I think dudes are terrible about this. Yeah. Yeah. I would say you're needed, that like because for the things we were talking about earlier that,

I mean, I've most, I know it's not everybody, but like, if in my circle of marriages, these ladies could totally run the show. I mean, don't need, it feels like they don't need you, but that's not true. It's not true, fellas. Like you are needed.

You are needed in the lives of your children. You're important in the lives of your children. You're needed in your wife's life. You're important in your wife's life. You are needed in the relationships within your municipality, within your school board, within like meeting people at the grocery store, like you were a valuable needed element of God's creation. And like,

just because it feels like people are kind of getting away with some stuff, like when you're not around, oh, like, well, like I was out of town. I was out of town like three weeks or something over the first three months of the year. And, like, when I came back, I mean, my house was still running just fine. It's not like it fell apart because I was gone because frankly, all those people are used to be in the house when I might be at work during the day or something like that. And, frankly, I was out of town, but I get paid either way. And so, but I was missing at my house. I was missing to tell my children good and true things, to remind them that they're super loved,

to encourage my wife, to help when especially when she's feeling low for having dealt with a bunch of kids all week and feels like maybe she's not keeping up as good as she should have as a mom. She needs reminded that she's doing great or pretty good. Right? Like, or like whatever normal marriage, just like I need I don't need my wife to go, Hey, you're great all the time. If it's not true, she's probably gonna tell me, Hey, probably need to work on these things. Like you're needed in that way. You're a balance to some of the things that are going on in your house. And frankly, sometimes like for the people that you love and that you were to care for, like they need someone who's just confident and firm and just takes the responsibility and goes, you know what we're doing?

This thing this time, and we're gonna start it over, and we're gonna pray that every night. And you know what? We're going out to eat tonight. And your wife goes, but I'm worried about the money, I'm worried about the dishes. And we go, woman, go and eat. We're going to That guy go with woman, shut up. I'm going, hey. Take it easy for a night. I think I'm gonna make the executive decision we're going to eat. And just like you're needed and necessary. And so like, if you look around and go, hey, I think this is running just fine without me. It's a charade. It's a charade. And frankly, you need the inputs that you get from doing the work of the kingdom within your family. The blessings of the kingdom often come through the work of the kingdom and the work of your kingdom is to help lead and guide your family. And so like, you're missing out if you're bailing on that stuff. And like, I get it. You're passing the time downstairs

watching sports. You're passing the time on video games to two in the morning. You know? Like, you're passing time complaining to your other husbands about how things aren't going, how you would expect at home or whatever. But, like, you're missing out on the blessings of the kingdom because you're not taking part taking part in them and you're not leading in there. And like, I know it's very fashionable in our society to

present to the world ladies who act like they don't need no man. But But I'm telling you this, the world was created for us to need each other. And like, I just, it's the relief with so many women in marriages when the fellow actually goes, you know what? I'm gonna straighten this thing out and I'm gonna help decide. Like, I'm gonna figure out a place where we're gonna go to church. I'm gonna take responsibility for I'm going to lead our family in prayer tonight. I'm going to make sure, like, I'm not relying on my wife to go, know, Hey, will you deal with the kids and make sure they clean up after themselves? Like a person who takes active part in the relationships within their household. And so like, I get it. I get what the fashion is. I'm just, if you put it down where there was no societal judgment, the relief from wives to see active participating,

competent, faithful husbands who are trying their very best to serve their family and lead them in a responsible way that God asked them to, they're gonna see it as a blessing. I'm just not buying otherwise. I've not heard a compelling argument outside of the fact that we don't we just don't like to say that kind of thing. Yeah.

You're listening to life from the path. Let's give out some advice. K. You ready? No. Dear oh, boy. I am. Dear life from the path.

My first what is this? No. I don't like that one. I had one, and then it went away. Great start. I'm ready for it. Nope. I don't want hold on. There we go. My 28 year old daughter moved back home when COVID hit. 28.

She works as an influencer and also has a part time job as a content creator, so she has no work. She doesn't pay bills. I've never once heard someone say, I'm a full time influencer, and I am a part part time content creator. Excellent.

She doesn't pay bills. My husband doesn't want her to pay rent, etcetera. I feel it's important for her to do so. She does pay for her groceries and gas. Okay. She stays in her room day and night. She used to go out with friends, but now doesn't do anything. She says she has cyber friends. We've asked her to come out with us at times, but she refuses. Another problem is she hasn't gone to the doctor or dentist in a very long time. I talked with her about it, and she blamed me for not taking her. I offered to go with her, but she doesn't do anything about it. My husband doesn't think there's a problem, but I feel there is. I feel we have enabled her, although we didn't mean to. Should we be charging her rent? How do we get her to become more social? How do we get her in the right help so she can move forward in her life? Okay. There's some of these things you can help with and some of these things that you can't. So, yes, you should charge her some rent. Yes. Alright. So listen here. You're not doing when we talk about this when it comes to childhood, like,

use the word discipline if you have to. I'm gonna I'm calling boundaries. Okay? Like, it's okay to set boundaries in your kid's life. They don't know when they're jacking up unless they run into a wall. And it's your as a parent, it's your job to set the walls. And so one of the walls is nobody gets to stay rent free at 28 years old throughout and sustain their life, not actually generating any cash or paying bills. Let's say you two were to die in a car accident tomorrow. Have you set your kid up for success? You have not. K? So, yeah, I think you should start charging rent directly. Secondly, when it comes to socialization,

I don't know if this is gonna be popular, but here's what I'm gonna tell you. You can't force your kid to socialize. What are you gonna do? My mom set up a date for me. Right. Hey. And and here's the thing. Maybe this maybe this just hits home a little bit, but, like, sometimes kids rebel against their parents just on general principle, general practice. I don't trust you anymore. I'm not gonna do I'm gonna do whatever I want. And you're the one trying to hold me back from that. You're the one setting the walls. Okay? So even if you're trying to get them to do a good thing, sometimes you're gonna lose babies with bath waters. They're gonna throw out something because you want it, even though it's really good for them. And so, like, there's a risk. Okay. Whatever. We're running this to my place. I feel like my wife wants my oldest daughter to be more social. Okay?

And she's right. She's right. This is good. You should make friends. You should go out with people or whatever. My daughter doesn't want to do it. Now I think, frankly, part of that is I think she's just got good old mom rebellion. And so even something the mom says that is good, I don't think she's going to find out. And so, I mean, you can press that, but you're to end up breaking both things. I think some of that stuff you got to wait out. I think you gotta wait out. Like you could you should encourage the crap out of it. You should try to create good opportunities. You it's good to invite your kid out or whatever, but at 28 years old, what are gonna do? You cannot change some of those types of things. And so you can only control what you can control, and then you encourage as much as you can. But the minute you make it, you try to be forceful about that kind of thing. You're gonna bust the relationship and the good thing that you tried to bring along with it. So I'd be real cautious over there. Yeah. I don't think Rhett's even the right answer. I think she needs to move out. Oh, just straight up give her the boot. Yeah. I I mean and you don't have to do it in, a jerky way, but the truth is she needs to meet the maintenance man at the apartment building,

the owner that runs the apartment building, the manager of the Culver's where she needs to work now because she has to generate some rent. Right? Like, if you wanna help both problems, right, she's only not socializing because she doesn't have to. Most of the friends I have, most of the people I interact with are at places I don't have a choice in going. Mhmm. Right? Like, I know a lot of people at work because I have to go there. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't know them if I didn't go. Yeah. Same thing like I know the guy at the gas station because I gotta get gas. The same thing I know the guy at the store because I'm stopping to get my own food. You know what I'm saying? So, like, a lot of relationships are made because you're out participating in communities. Yeah. And there you can have friends online for sure,

but you will have friends that are not online when you actually live in a world not online, and and you're not helping her in any of those regards. So, like, I would say for her own good, it's probably time to move out. Yeah. So that would be my advice. Second, like, husband, he's he's the guy we were just talking about. Leading his family. No. He's a doofus. Like, obviously, this is a problem. 20 years old, not ever leaving the house and paying no rent, sitting around being a content creator part time. Yeah. What dad's, like, is like, has eyes and sees that and then just does nothing or doesn't pay any attention to it at all? I don't know any dad worth his worth his salt that were their kid goes, dad, I'm a be a influencer or a content creator. He's like, no. Those are not legit jobs. I mean, here's the deal. Right now, it is. You can make stupid amount of money doing that. Yeah. But, like, there's a discipline to like, what what's your plan? You can ask that person who's a content creator or whatever. What happens if that social media platform gets shut down tomorrow? Like, it's fine to have these kind of conversations to build this person into a real human being. Based on reality. Right? Like, you can't like, you can be a content creator all you want. Plus, pay your bills. Right. Right? Exactly. Yes. Right. But, like, that'll flake out. Yeah. Pay me rent and then be the parent that puts all that money in savings. Whatever. That way when they do boot, you can go, hey. Guess what? Over the last two years, I've been charging you $300 a month, and now here's $8. I'm go.

Get yourself a car. Here's your down payment for the place. You've got a savings account now with a little bit of a bubble to fall on just in case TikTok gets sold. I feel like this ship has sailed, though. At 28, I think that you might have started that at, like, 17. I mean, yeah. I feel like 20 I've maybe I might maybe maybe Mike's right. Like, you're just you're allowing a well, okay. So back to the dude. Back to the husband. So, like, yeah, this is a guy and this goes to the right encouragements. Like, hey. You know what a hard thing to say is? Just tell your kid, hey. You gotta go, man. Like Right. I'm not doing you any good here. And, like, this is harming you because what you'd rather do I could look too. I could look out at my family. I got four kids. I I look at them and I go, like, I mean, I'd keep them here. What the heck, man? I like these people. I want them to be around me. I like to hear them tell stories. I like to hear them tell jokes. I like to see them grow and change. And, like, the thought that, you know, you give it two years, one of them could just be gone and not around me all the time. Like, I I don't like that, but it's good. It's like that's their their lives have to I, like, I I've sacrificed what I want, which is to have my kids around me all the time for their life, which is good. And, like, sometimes that means I have to admit I made a mistake. And I you know what? I facilitated

them not moving on to a life that will do all kinds of good in the world that will create its own relationships and stuff. And like, it's there there's a need to protect and then there's a need to help thrive. And right now you're protecting and maybe even being selfish and you're not creating a situation of which your kids are thriving. And that is one of your responsibilities. And so you gotta you gotta do it. Even that that that's the harder thing. The thing that seems noble that says, I'll I'm a keep them, and it's not noble. Secular says, a step in the right direction would be for your husband to take his head out of the sand and admit that his daughter may have a problem. The next step would to have a frank talk with her and tell her that if she's going to continue living with you, she must agree to have medical and dental checkups. Okay.

Go with her so you can understand what is going on. That's some that's some good independence right there because your daughter appears to have some emotional issues. Her, quotes, world may be on the web, but unless she can find one on Terra Firma, expect her to be under your roof forever. I'm a tell you this. I'm not willing to I'm not willing to shut the door that these parents have caused some of this problem. Not only not only with this COVID business, but, like, I mean, at 28, if this is she's still holding on to the influencer content creator gig, unless she's actually if she's really good at it, then she shouldn't there's no reason to live at all. Right. Yeah. Right? So she can't be good at it. And so, like, something you if this dude is in the indication, he's facilitated this all the way up to this Yeah. He's not developed any discipline in in his child,

any any ability to establish self worth or that anything means anything. Nothing is sacred to this this kid at all. It's all about, like, entitlement without any deserving, like, nature of it at all. Yeah. So we were talking about this before the show. Right? Like, God has put things in place to to help, like, address some of this. Right? It's why he said humanity is going to work. Right? It's why why like, humanity should have a little bit of exercise in their day and get some decent sleep and not eat junk food all the time. Right? Like, God has set us up to deal with a lot of these things that we're trying to solve with medications. Yeah. And so, like, a lot of this is coming for honestly, a lot of us lack of work. Like, you just you need to find a purpose. And, like, let's say content creation, I'm just old, and I think it's dumb, but it's actually awesome and a great way to make money. Okay. I hear you. Like, when it's paying your bills,

then, yes, you're completely right. When you're living at your parents' house at twenty eight, I'd say it's not. I'd say that you are completely mooching off of a environment that you came from. I don't think the thing's holding its Why did they move back for for COVID, by the way? Did not say. Yeah. I'm I'm just trying to think of, like, what's the what's the rationale there if that's not just indicative of the bigger situation. Yeah. I feel like creation was at its heights during COVID. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So stuff exploded when when when COVID happened because everybody was on freaking line because we're stuck in our houses. You know, that was the prescription, but that's why all these tech companies are laying people off because they thought the thing was gonna sustain. It didn't. Yes. But at the time, it did. Well, at the time, they believed it would. I don't know that it actually did. Really? Yeah. I don't know that it actually did. Like, the question is is, like, for those folks isn't whether people were consuming more online content. It's whether they were consuming the peripherals to the online comment True. Content, more ads, and stuff like that. That's true. And people were making money because the more their content reached people, the more people were willing to pay for the advertisement thinking that it was gonna boom. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Valid point. Never thought about that. Okay. K. Last one. Ready? Yep. Dear life from the past. I've been married for more than thirty years. My husband and I split all bills and everything else. Yep. This has worked because in life, I've always taken care of myself. My issue is his cheap attitude about every little dime. He always makes sure I pay my fair share to the penny. But when it comes to his reimbursing me, he usually rounds down to the dollar. While he's tight with the family, he's generous to everyone else. He is generous not only with his money, but also his time. His stinginess towards me makes me feel I'm unimportant to him. I am very generous to him. Why are our family and I lowest on his priority list while he's so generous to everyone else?

Good time, Gary. I I I this sounds like a conversation that probably needs to be had over a series of months with this man, but, like, let's let's let's pause at a situation of which he is not a is not a jerk. Right. Yeah. So what it may look like is is that you if you feel responsibility for your family, you try to teach your kids responsibility.

Right? And so you're a little tighter on the internal. K? But then you're super generous with external folks because it's not your job to teach them anything. You get to just be generous. He's talking about it with his wife. That you can be generous. He didn't he say to his family? No. Yeah. He's yeah. But, like, they split the bills. That was her main point. It's like if she owes him $26.12, he makes sure that he gets the exact amount from her. But when he owes her, he pays $26. I mean, does she insist upon the 12? Apparently not. Mom, it sounds like it sounds like she doesn't she's a better accountant. You know what you know what works here?

Not doing this freaking me. I have this money. You have this money crap. Same bank. This is our money. Yeah. Yeah. You never have to worry about reimbursing somebody if you have the same dang bank account Yeah. And you just work through stuff. Yeah. And guess what? You can be generous within your family and outside of your family. It's fine because nobody's owed anything. It's just the money of the family. Yeah. Yeah. That's why it works great that way. Here's the thing. I is I know there's I know there's multiple philosophies around this, but I'm tell you this. You you by having separate bank accounts as a married couple, all you're all you're doing is deferring a major argument till later in your marriage. Yes. And you're saying, I don't wanna be responsible. Right. Right? I I don't want because, like, you get then you get to hide what you're spending on. And, like, I here's the deal. Even if you don't find yourself to be deceitful person, like, you're still doing it. Yeah. Right? It just gives you an avenue that you don't need. And so, like, I like, just just soon as you say I do, you combine the bank accounts, you book the counselor the next week, but, like, do not defer this con because, like, that's what we're doing. Right now, we're having this conversation around, like, why does he treat me this way? Right? Which has got all kinds of underlying things like trust and love and care. It's just, you're using the bank account as the forum, as the medium through which to have this problem. But like, you could have hashed that out a long time ago. The money shouldn't be the barrier to it. And so I that's encouragement. Number one is you all this goes away when you combine the bank accounts. And then two, now you start dealing with the actual problems, which is like well, because you think of it this way. The money could be telling maybe the guy's just he's just a tight dude internally because he

feels like if I gotta watch my pennies here because I wanna be generous. Exactly. Okay. So he's tight about that. I mean, is just another provider of money. With the way that they've set it up and split their things, that's the role she chose. Yeah. Chose as a couple. And so you can't I mean, don't be upset because the guys like that, but I I think it solves, but you you combine the bank account and then be prepared to hash it out for a number of months until you get those things resolved. Yeah. Zechler says,

your husband may have cultivated the reputation of being benevolent and magnificent because he feels it is in his advantage. He may not feel the need to impress you and other family members because he sees no advantage in it. What a miserable, miserly husband you have. I'm surprised that rather than write to me, you haven't confronted him about it. Things might have been different if you had spoken up decades ago. Holy cats.

Not even any advice from secular. Just straight up your husband sucks. Sorry. Yeah. Wow. I just can't imagine taking my wife out to dinner and going, you owe me $13.50. Yeah. Right. What a weird interchange, ain't it? Especially like, just think of the types of things you do with your with your spouse. And then, like, well, before before we move on to the romantic part of the evening, let's settle the debt. Right? Like, it just seems so

and what are the thing to have to bring up? I don't know. The next morning or the morning after. Like, I would want no part of this. So my wife and I have had separate bank accounts since the beginning of our marriage. We're working on fixing that right now because, actually, I've talked to Ben about this a couple times, and it's one of the reasons we're fixing that. But, like, do you know what I love doing? I love spoiling my wife. I love it. She asked me for $20 today because she sent me most of her paycheck to put into her savings account. So trying to make big moves in, debt consolidation and savings. Right? And so she said, is most of her money? And then she goes, oh, crap. Something came out that I really need to have, like, $46 for. Right? And she goes, I only have 40. And I went, okay. And she goes, can you send me $20? I'd really appreciate that because that way, you know, I I I can get it taken care of. Now here's the deal. We pay all my bills, all of our bills out of my account. Everything comes out of what I have just because I'm I'm the main person who works in our relationship, and, like, we just pay for everything through what I have. Right? She asked me for $20. I happily skipped over to my bank account and sent her 50 because I was like, you know what I love? I love the fact that she's gonna check her phone, and she's gonna go, oh my gosh. He gave me 30 more than what I asked for. Because he trusts me. He knows I'm not gonna be dumb, and he knows that it'll make me feel loved that he sent me even more than I asked for. So it's not just, hey. Let me take care of the things that you need. Me Let give you a little bit extra so you feel more comfortable about where you're at. You don't have to worry about something. I freaking love doing that. It's one of my favorite things to do. If we had a single bank account, I'd do the same thing. I'd just tell her like, hey, baby. We're being we're being smart about our money, but we are budgeting well. Just a heads up. If you wanna grab something nice, like, if you want a new shirt or if you wanna get something new, do it. I trust you. I'm not gonna tell her an amount because it's not just me giving her money because I lord over it. It's just, hey. I think it's a good idea because I want you to be able to buy yourself a nice thing. Mhmm. We're being generous where we need to. We're being we're we're being smart with our money for for what God's called us to do and stuff like that. I love you. God's not gonna get mad at us if if you buy a shirt today, or if you splurge a little bit, get a nicer purse than you had. Whatever. I'm fine with it. It is such a fun and loving thing to do in a marriage when you trust each other and you love each other, and that's part of it, man. It's awesome. It's just awesome. I don't know how conversations don't need to turn into giant land landmines. They're not minefields. I don't know how you save.

Like, I I'd be really interested to find a a marriage that has done this and has done it well because, like, I only see pitfalls. Yeah. Like, I'm sure there's there's in fact, I know a couple couples that have done it. I should probably ask them. But, like, I don't know how you would be like, look. How do we get money into savings to cover, like, when our washer breaks? You know? And so, like, we look at the money as a pool and go, well, how much do we got? How much are our bills? Okay. We could probably shovel a little bit into savings or whatever. And after, whatever, six months, eight months, we might be able to have some washer money. You know? Like, let let's do that. But, like, how to have that conversations separately, I don't know. Plus there's built in accountability to me sharing a bank account. Yeah. Like, as soon as I buy something like, like, my wife knows everything I buy. And, like, I wouldn't try to buy anything on the sly anyway. Right. You know? Because she gets to see the bank account. She looks at it more than I do anyhow. Yeah. So, like, there's built in accountability that, like, if I decided I wanted to do something, like, I just call. Hey. I was thinking about pulling the trigger on buying a new battery. It's probably gonna be a $140. What do we think? I'd probably wait till next paycheck on that one, Foust. Okay. Got it. Right. We're gonna we're gonna slink along on this battery for a couple weeks. Right? There's trust and there's respect in that, and I think that's awesome. Like, that's my wife and I have had to have tough conversations. Like, she's so I it's gonna sound like I'm saying I've never done anything wrong. That's absolutely not true. But, like, she's made some decisions financially that I'm just like, babe, that just was not the right move. It just flat out wasn't. I don't know why you did that. Here's how that made me feel, and this is what the reality of what you just did is. But, like, we trust each other. She knows I love her. I know she loves me. There's no, like, worry of being in a pitfall in a in a landfill or a minefield in this situation because I can go, hey. Just because I'm gonna say that was kind of a bad deal doesn't mean that I'm eroding away your worth or that I think you shouldn't be trusted with money. That's not the situation. None of those are even on the table to be a debate. Mhmm. I trust you. I love you. I'm not worried about this stuff, but just that instance,

maybe probably don't do that again, or maybe let's talk about that going forward. And it like, I'm certainly not saying I have the the, you know, the skeleton key to every good conversation about finances in a marriage. It's just when you come at it from that place and go, okay. How is this gonna make them feel? How do I feel about this? Make sure I'm not checking this with anger and just go, okay. From a logical perspective, this is what we said we wanted to do because we've already talked about that. This is what we said our finances should be for because we already communicated and talked about that. We set this plan. You went off plan. If that's a problem, fine. Let's talk about it. If it's not a problem and you don't see it, it is fine. Let's talk about that too. These were my expectations. These are yours. We're not angry at each other, and it's not emotionally charged. It just goes, hey. There was $50 in there before. It's not now. What's going on? Let's talk. And it's freaking great. It is fantastic. I like sharing a bank account. I think it's only way to live. Agreed. You've been listening to life from the path on lifepath.org. Why don't you go ahead and hit us as a follow-up? We've not broadcasted

we have not broadcast on the website for almost, like, eight years. He's he's saying in the future. He's saying when they're watching this there? When when they're watching this in 2031, you're obviously watching this from the from the future on live from thepat.org. Yeah. You can still see it there. Alright. Thanks for hanging out with us. We really do appreciate minute. Yep. I said a true and righteous thing, and then you came in with judgment and terribleness. Be faithful in the ends. God will handle the meat. I that's my thing. Oh, is it? Oh, did I say it wrong? Yes. You also said it wrong. Alright. Anyway, thanks for hanging out with us. We really do appreciate it. This was short of $4.99.

So next next time you see live from the past, we'll be on our 500 episode, and there probably will be no fanfare or acknowledgement of that. Dan might be wearing a weird shirt or hat. Just like four ninety eight. Yeah. Right. Alright. Thanks for hanging out with us. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.