Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the past. You're coming from the Pathway Studios here at Johnston Proper on a special

March 11 edition. You know, I listen to I don't listen to news very often. But when I do, they name geographical areas that I don't know where they're at, and I just let it go. Like Jakarta. Yeah. I don't know what it is. The Arabian Peninsula. I have no idea where that is. There's a The Baltic Sea unknown to me. There's an Arabian Peninsula? Apparently. I've I I heard it on the news. Okay. You know what you could do in that situation? Tell me. You could just Google that. Here's the thing. Just Google. I like to live On a map? I think you can. I like to live old school. And so if I don't know it already, I just don't need to know it. I can't Google it. That's cheating. You do not need any more information in this lifetime. If it is not around me or I can't ask somebody about it directly,

then I just forget about it and let it pass. I like to live old school. Yeah. I hope you don't get dysentery. Other people are on the Google and keep me out of out of the dysentery arm. Wait. How old school are we talking? Are we talking you fix illnesses with leeches? Yeah. Before Google. When did when did when did the Google come out? '85? 1950. 1990? The fact that you call it the Google. I think Google was the nineties. Yeah. Okay. Here's what we got going on the show this evening. First of all, I'm very disappointed in you. I wanna make this very clear. I'm super disappointed in you. And if you think to yourself, he can't be talking about me, I am. Because we set out a very clear call Yeah. For better, celebrity stories than William Shatner's William Shatner on a bike with Dan's brother. And, I just we didn't I didn't see anything. No. Either

either you don't have any better stories or you got caught up in your day to day life. You were, you know, trying to be a good spouse or good parent. You were trying to be diligent at work, trying to keep up with your, on and off again exercise program, trying to say yes to the almond butter, no to straight up drinking olive oil at the Starbucks. And those all seem like great things. I hear you. In your mind, they seem very practical and good. But just know, I'm very disappointed that I didn't see any better celebrity stories than than Billy Shatner on a bike. I wasn't here last week, but I did listen to that show, and I used the Kaibo after Buddy Guy one time. So that was Buddy Guy, the blues guitarist. Yeah. Yeah. Someone else

while you were stepping out, someone else was stepping in. And it was Buddy Guy to kind You to you have to know Buddy Guy's music to get understand why that's funny. Yeah. But yes. Okay. I had a a high school history teacher that was a bellhop and helped James Earl Jones carry his bags to his broom one time. Who is James Earl Jones? The the voice of Darth Vader. Okay. Old voice of Darth Vader. I did have a run-in with Newt Gingrich. When when did you see Newt Gingrich? I was out of town working in Fort Dodge at this low rent hotel, and I I got up early because I had to go out to work. It was, like, 07:15 or something. And Newt Gingrich's campaign at the time had rented out the conference room in this hotel. And so I walked past the double doors that were open, and Gingrich was up there blabbering away. Gingrich. Yeah.

And he made eye contact with me, and I gave him the thumbs down and cut a trail. You didn't you did not give him the thumbs definitely did that. That was a for sure thing that happened, and it was awesome. And I didn't stick around for his reaction. I gave him a quick boo, then I hauled out. I don't even know what he was saying. I could have agreed with what he was saying. I don't have no idea. As soon as he caught my eye line, I gave him the thumbs down and jet. I regret so I when I was working downtown, I don't know. This had to been in in, I don't know, early late late two thousands or maybe early two thousand tens. Obama was campaigning. Yeah. And they they had set up something in Downtown Des Moines, and I was out walking in my lunch hour and you could hear him talking. And this it was must have been his reelection because and I thought, like, I I feel like I should I wanted to see it. Like, I wanted to I've not gone to any type of event like that, and I thought it would be super cool. And then first, I can't remember why I gave up on it. I don't know. Maybe there was some sort of thing at work that felt like it was important, but, like, I don't know. I I but I did I heard I heard his voice. I heard the voice of You heard the voice of celebrity story? He was within

a half mile, and then you thought, I'm not gonna go? The voice of of of of of of of I saw Ron DeSantis' truck thingy in a parking lot. Who's I think that's that. Do you think Ron DeSantis is driving his own truck? These stories are going great. Probably there. Okay. Who is Ron DeSantis? Okay. Here's so this you did this to yourselves, though. I blame the same state as John Wayne. I've I've been in the same state as John Wayne's bones. Gross. Okay. So so, anyway, I blame you because this is what we have to offer to the world for these celebrity stories, and we're it's a new format for the show. We're into gossip. We're no

slam. Tell us about a time. Are we drinking tea? Yeah. So we can spill it? Is this tea time? No. No. I I'm on the decaf. It's a promise. Anyway, so It is up in the life from the path complete line. (515) 517-0085. And I know. I remember the feedback from some of you, and you said, hey. This opening of show takes too long. Get to the we wanna hear the meat. We we dial into this show for meat, I say, sir, you're mistaken. Or There's no meat. I don't know what you were thinking. You've listened to the program. Chin and bone. However, if you want this celebrity thing to stop, I need at least one better story than Billy Shatner on a bike.

That's that's the key. Otherwise, here's what here's what we got going on the show this week. We are playing America's third favorite and fastest growing Internet game show, Is This Love? Oh, boy. Mike, what's the premise? Is This Love? Basically, we set you up with we set you up with a scenario, and then you have to decide is the by by the way that it was described,

is this love? Are they doing good loving things? Is this love, or is it not love? Wait. Was that what the opposite was? I thought it was, is this love, or is this, like, just fake? No. Like, romantic or not? Is it I think it's not love. Yeah. I think it's not love. Love, not love. It's binary. Yeah. Those are the options. Yeah. Is this love? Yeah. Or hate? And so if you remember, this this game show originated when Crystal Joy was here, and she she writes years ago. She writes so I I is it wrong to call them romance novels? Yeah. That's wrong. Yes. That makes it sound tawdry. Rom coms. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. I think. I don't know. Wholesome. Wholesome Hey. Wholesome presidential joy. No. Does that count? Celebrity? We talked to John Acuff one time, once. Oh. Hey. I just listened to a John Acuff book last week. It was great. Oh, yeah. To a ranked collective concert. To it. They're basically celebrities. So so we had John Acuff on the show one time. Yeah. And the interview didn't go great. I think I was running my mouth or something. I said offensive things. Sounds about right. And then, and then I followed up with him and said, hey, man. Do you wanna come on the show again? And he politely declined, and it was awesome. Yeah. He did it in a real classy way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we just concluded that he was discerning. Yeah. So that was smart of him. He's the kind of fellow that would do that. Yeah. He's got better things to do. Okay. Move on. So we're gonna play Is This Love? Also, just I think you this is probably on your mind, and so we wanted to cover it in the show. These were seven things church activities that we should stop. It's time for the church to move forward. Do you think potlucks is gonna be on that list? Interesting. I guess we'll see. I hope not. We'll see what it's I gonna love potlucks. Okay. And then then we have a follow-up discussion. I wanna talk about how how can how can your soul be well. Right? How can you sing it as well?

When I think there's a there's a a deep question when it comes to is God faithful in his promises? Yes. The answer is yes. Is God faithful to do all these things? Yes. Is he strong enough, graceful enough, full of mercy enough? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. They're all yeses. But then there's people on the other side of the equation. And so like, I wanna talk about that a little bit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That kinda kinda gets at one of the deep quandaries which is what is what is a human's relationship to the faithfulness of god? Can they to to what part what part do you play on the great stage?

That's what Buva was wondering. Yeah. I was sitting here thinking, Mike, what part do you play on the great stage? Great stage. And do you enter stage left or stage right? I hope I am Onto the great stage. I hope I'm third banjo man. Did you get a call to the casting call of the great stage of life? It's just things I ponder on a daily basis. Yeah. He's He's the the knees alla bees. That's what they mean that's what they mean when the rule is called up yonder. Like, it's not r o l l. It's r o l e. Oh, gotcha. Okay. Okay. Alright. Anyway, that's Hit the bricks, Banjo, man. Hey. Real quick before we get started. Okay. I wanna say thank you to a felon named Jeff. Okay. K? Is that a pseudonym for Ben? It's not. I would never thank a man named Ben. Okay. Go ahead. So I'd apparently, when I got home the other night from hanging out with some friends, when I got out of my car, my wallet fell out of my pocket. That was embarrassing. Oh, terribly embarrassing. I I could barely show my face afterward. Were you slinging your pants too low? Yeah. I was. They were, like, at my knees. It was crazy. You know? That's too far. Nobody wants that. Agree. No. So the wallet fell fell out of my pocket, and I I did not realize it. So I go inside, and, like, it's a couple hours later. I've gone to sleep and woken up already. Mhmm. And I see a a Facebook message from a fellow named Jeff Mhmm. That says, hey, man. I found your wallet, and then I found you on Facebook. Let me know when you wake up, and I'll get it to you. Oh, nice. And I was like, what? That's awesome, man. That's really cool. This yeah. Right. This guy found me on Facebook for my ID.

Turns out he's in the building next to mine. But, apparently, right after that, and I I turned on my my active status on Facebook Messenger, saw that he'd been active for, like or inactive for, like, fifteen minutes. Yeah. So I messaged him, and I'm like, oh, hey. Thanks, man. I really appreciate that. I'm up now. Where are you at? And he doesn't respond to me for eleven and a half hours. And he woke up at around noon and said, hey, man. Sorry. I fell asleep right after I texted you. For eleven? Yeah. For eleven and a half hours. I'm like Nice. That's alright. Where are you at? He goes I was like, I'm Building 6. He goes, well, I'm an 8. I'm like, fantastic. And those are right next to each other. So, like, he goes, meet you at the tennis courts, which sounded like a real drug deal of a situation if I'm being honest about it. I've never had a meet you at the tennis courts text on my phone before. Yeah. And I never wanted one, but now I had one. And so I met him at the at the tennis courts, and he gave me his wallet. And he goes, hey, man. It happens to all of us. It happens to me all the time. And, immediately, I thought that's a that's a rough life if you lose your wallet all the time. But, like, regardless have in his pockets? A lot of them, apparently. He wears his pants and his knees. Yeah. They call me lot work. Like, I was just I was really I was really surprised that, like, just to be it was super cool that the guy, like, found me on Facebook and messaged me and, you know, made certain I I got my wallet back. And Yeah. He was was super cool about it. Walked out of his apartment building, walked up to me and said, hey, man. You know, here you go. Thanks. Or I said, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. He goes, no problem. Happens all the time. He walked back in. I was like, wow. Well, that was a really cool interaction, and I certainly appreciate it. Jeff, if you ever listen to the show, thank you very much for for finding my wallet and getting back to me so quickly, man. I just thought that was such a cool thing that, like, dude could've taken it, could've charged a card, and and done all kinds of stuff or just never said anything to me. Yeah. But he just wanted to make sure I got him a wallet back. Way to be awesome, Jeff. Yeah. Nice job, Jeff. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. Did he did he try to Pete Samprons you? I don't know what that means. Pete Samprons while you're on the tennis courts. No clue who that is. Mike. Yeah. I know who it is. It's odd that you'd bring it up in this room, Ben. Okay. My mistake. It's like bringing up Shaquille O'Neal to church. Ain't nobody talking about him and you. Okay. Whatever.

Let's let's talk let's let's talk about these church activities that are supposed to stop. Alright. K. By $5, one of them is not potluck. Okay. You think wait. Yeah. I'm betting against myself from earlier. Okay. So you think it will be absent a potluck? Yes. K. It might cost me $5 if it's not on there. I'm pulling for pamphlets. You think pamphlets You think pamphlets not be on there? I know. I'm hoping for pamphlets will be on there. What? Do you guys think car wash might be on there? Like, do guys ever do church car washes? No. What about nativity? Fine. Let's see what's on this list. Let's go. Ella thinks nativity is gonna be asked to be out. Oh. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Okay. I stole the baby Jesus from a nativity one time. And that's why they're taking it out. Because of rahooligans. That's right. Fair. It agrees. Twenty years ago, they're like, we lost our baby Jesus. Was it? It could have been on the news story. Of the best parts of going to church is it has events where people can meet with like minded group group of people. I often think of church as a mixer. That's one of the best things. Wait. You guys believe the same thing I do? I can't believe it. No way. Of these some of these events help us grow in our faith. Some allow us to serve our neighbors. Some help our children learn, and some give us food and fellowship we can savor. Come up. That's a delicious sentence. But we often think, man, this is way outdated, exclamation point,

As we participate in church activities, whether in the service or during the week, it's time to take a stand. This journalism is incredible. Let's get rid of the events holding our church back from growing. Let's find the thriving events and add fuel to the proverbial fire. This feels like it was written by the AI. Let's get rid of the old. Bring in the new. Oh, man. And start today. Are some church activities that we need to consider dumping now. One, events that are grandfathered in. But that's not a specific event. Who does that? Who leaves like What you do you mean grandfathered in? As in, like, old homeless Joe over there says, should throw this in. What do you mean grandfathered? Yeah. So they mean things that, like, you wouldn't do it for you wouldn't start it up right now, but because you've been doing it a long time, you're gonna keep doing it. So tradition. You could've said tradition.

Yeah. Which Like, grandfather did. Oh, for my job. Don't take care of We've got our annual Sadie Hawkins dance we've been doing since 1927. Okay. Are you still doing a Christmas luncheon just because Betsy Ross was the committee chair of the inaugural event? What? Even though the pastor's wife is the only person to attend? Is it Betsy Ross isn't the one who, like, stitched together the American flag? Yeah. That's the one. So many churches cling to declining and already dead activities. Why? Because it's always been something we do. Now hold on a minute. I would propose that if you put on an event and nobody comes, it's not killing your church. It's just disappointing the guy who set the event up. Right. Like, do you think people, like, go to church and go because the church has an event that they would not attend that they are mad at the church? Right. Chuck and Gladys have just been doing this since the fifties. Yeah. They're the only ones disappointed, but they're the ones who keep perpetually disappointing themselves by continuing to do the luncheon. Yeah. I don't know that this is a significant different

yeah. I I mean, suppose it depends how much you bang the gong on it. Like, if you try to coerce people into going. I can't even think of an event that falls underneath it. I've never been to a church that does a Christmas luncheon. No. Who's no one's showing up to that kind thing. Up old school Baptist church. We don't still have Christmas lunches. Like, nondenominational churches. Right? Like, I it's not like we haven't been to a a variety of churches, and I've never been to one that's trying to hold up a Christmas lunch. Why don't we do that? Why don't we at least Apparently, nobody likes it. It hasn't been grandfathered in. Like it. Here's the

I was homeless, Joe. I think one of the benefits of not doing a bunch of these church activities actually, I was having a conversation with a guy earlier in the week and we talked about, like, you go to the average Christian and ask, hey, in what ways are you serving within your church? 90% of the things that they're gonna say are within the church building. Uh-huh. Right? So, like, it's very insular. Yep. And I think that's to the detriment of the gospel moving out and because we go, oh, really need to start serving at church and so you're gonna go rearrange the chairs, you're gonna vacuum. Like, these aren't inherently bad things, but, like, when if you have a significant imbalance of how much when we think about serving happens within the confines of our own place, that's problematic. Yep. Okay. Why do we struggle with that though? Like, do we struggle with it because we're counting on the church infrastructure to set us up with places to serve? Yes, yes. I do think it has been,

we, wish Dan was here because I think he provides a better, an like interesting perspective on this given from his church planting background. But like one of the things that I think our church infrastructure does is because it tends to be centered on a person, a pastor, a series of events and things that drive you into a common path. You risk one, replacing the Holy Spirit with a process and two, I think it builds

into people or the feeling that you need to wait for someone to tell you what to go do. Like Christians in general were entrepreneurial types. Like there are people who just see needs and fill them and go about and do things. And I think our structure in some of our modern church infrastructure doesn't prohibit that, but it does not encourage it either. And so, I do

think oftentimes people, as opposed to seeing the work of the church external, they're like, well, we just want you to get you plugged in. Like first, let's make them a member of the church and plugged into the infrastructure and then we push out. Like the first, which I'd rather start the opposite and maybe the never. You don't even have to come back here during the week. Go live in your neighborhood and do the stuff in your neighborhood. But yeah, I do I do think there is something about the infrastructure that doesn't encourage insularity but doesn't but doesn't discourage it either. Yeah. You signed our membership, you took our class, now you can be a greeter. Good job. Yeah. And that's and I mean, like, again, when we're trying to get people plugged in, you make relationship connections. Right. They're more likely to stay at your church. But, again, that's that's measuring the wrong thing. Yeah. Like, do I measure the success of our particular

community by how many people came in the door and are still here six months from now? I don't know, what kind of that's more of an earthly measure, that's not much of a long term king to measure. And so, anyway, that's I I think that's that's one of the risks. Alright. When when we refuse to cut back withering events, we're taking time and resources away from thriving activities. Apparently, it sounds like just the pastor's wife. So, again, we may have overbaked on that one. Number two, offering prayer at the front of the sanctuary. Have you guys ever gone up to pray at the front of the sanctuary? When was kid heard stories. What what kind of Like, at Ignite. They told how people did that. Oh, like a youth conference? Like the altar call? Kinda freaks me out. Don't know. How do you what what do you mean?

I went I've gone to multiple altar calls at multiple children's events and youth group events. Okay. Every time I was like, think I need to be baptized again. I got an idea. Like, is anyone feeling particularly bad about themselves and wants to tell Jesus? Mhmm. I do. And I'd walk up there, little booba, and I'd go up and that's the same stuff over and over again. I'd be like, let me pray that away, brother. And then I'd walk away, and I'd go back to my friends, and they'd all be clapping and,

hugging me and stuff and go, you're a new man. Like, I'm 13. And I got plans to ruin it more. The second second we we get get home. Home. I'm gonna screw this up again. Do we hold this event every year? Because I may need the refresh. Yeah. As an adult, though, I've never gone, hey, man. I'm gonna go up front. So, ladies, neither one of you gals Oh. Have rolled up front? Nope. I don't know what praying in front of the sanctuary means. It means that, like so, hey. They're gonna offer a time within, a church service and say, hey. Would does it let's come up for prayer. And people who feel like they need a particular prayer come up to the front of the church so that pre people can, like, pray with them. Oh, okay. I get it. Okay. I've seen people do it. I I go to this youth group Yeah. And, like, they will have a time where they will, like, have the the leaders of, like,

the small groups for anyway. But they will have, like, adults that you can go over and pray with. Okay. Well and I think that's okay. I think it's okay to let people know that there's folks that can pray with you. The question is, like, is there something particularly weird, awkward, or ineffective about saying come to the front of this gathering? I don't think it's ineffective, but I personally just don't like it because then I feel like once you get up there, you're supposed to be focusing on, like, you know, praying and whatever, but then, like, it just is awkward. You're gonna be and you can't really focus on what's important. But then, again, I feel like you're the one making this awkward. Maybe nobody else is thinking, wow, this is awkward except for you. Here's Probably. Yeah. Here's what I would say, is that, like, it would it depends if the concept is everyone gets to see who went up so they could be praying for them, That sounds like a little bit too, like not everybody needs to know all the things. Yeah. And like, especially for, churches not like small community churches but you're talking about larger organizations, like, at some point this is just eye gossip. Like, you don't really know this person. Right. You might be curious now, oh, something's going on with Margaret. But like, you don't really know what it is and hopefully nobody tells you. And so I'm not sure I I think it's a lot like in a trusted community

of people. Right? Like, I find it very effective, honestly. Right? Like, when you're when you get past yourself, one, you're in a position to walk humbly with Jesus. Right? Like, if if if the fact that people are gonna see you walking up there would dissuade you or, like, you you're gonna be embarrassed by you're like, I don't want people to see me going up there. I don't want them to think that I'm broken or that I got this going on. Right? When that becomes a secondary thought to you or even better, a tertiary thought that you're like, whatever, I'm just gonna go up front. And just like just like, Ben talks about this a lot, like like, your your spiritual things and your bodily things are are connected. Right? And so there is something, like, if you even if in your head, you see, like, the front of the church where most people aren't allowed. This is hard for this group because everybody plays in a band or everyone preaches or, you know, everyone's up on the stage using it. Like, most people are not. Right? And so, like, the stage of the church is something, you know, that they hold in in, like, at least some kind of esteem. So, like, rolling up there and it being a more sacred space for you and then also not caring about what anyone else thinks about you on your way up. Right? Like, there's something very freeing about it, I guess, what I would say. Yeah. That it makes sense to me that there's a value in in not caring. But does I think it does depend, the first thing you said was if you're in like a

trusted Yeah. And I think there are the bigger the organization, the more that's not really the case. Yeah. And so I feel like you would handle it differently. I've seen them do this at a couple of churches, and to be honest with you, like, I really enjoyed it. Like, the the worship band is still playing like, I enjoyed it. Like, I'm like, entertain me, fellow broken people. But, like like, people are people are going up and getting prayed for, and and, like, there's people bopping out of the crowd. Right? Like, there's one guy praying over a guy, and then all of sudden, two more people get out of the out of the seats, and they go pray with that guy, hands on his on on him. You know? So, like, it just seems like it it it turns into, like, this community prayer of, like, this guy or this gal is like, hey. I need prayer. And then all of a sudden, everyone's like, yeah. I'm in. I'm in for this specific thing. Not general things. We're praying for you and your stuff, and we're bringing them to the father as a as a family. Yep. And, like, I I find it effective if it's being done genuinely. Okay. Okay. So maybe So they wanted to take that off? Yeah. They said while wrapping up the service, your pastor motions for the prayer team to come forward as he informs the congregation that these people standing in front of the entire church are willing to pray with anyone. Oh. See how this might deter someone? It requires a person to build up the courage to walk up to the front of the church where everyone can see. Although, sometimes I feel like that's probably necessary to get over that fear. Yeah. So I think from from my perspective, I would say you don't need to build up courage. You need to submit to surrender. Mhmm. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes that makes sense. And so maybe we're looking at it the wrong way. Like, we're trying to protect some level of embarrassment, but, like, if you're in a trusted community,

this is the safest place to be, is out in the open with these people praying about these things. I think Mike's right, though. Like, it feels so different if it's with, like, a small close knit community than, like, a huge church. I think I can see both sides of the problem because on one hand, you might be paranoid, and you might be like, oh, people are gonna judge me if they think that I have a bunch of crap going on. Yep. But that's why that's why you kinda need to go up there. Also, you got drunk. For the same reason, you probably need to go up there. Yep. Yeah. I don't I don't disagree. I think if it's I would I would have a harder time in a smaller community. This is my this is the opposite side, though. It's like, in a big church, nobody knows me. Know? You And so, like, I'm just another list. You know? But if I go walking up there, like, how am I supposed like, Layla's gonna be like, there's something wrong with there's something wrong with my person. You know? And they're and there's they got some brokenness in them, and I wonder what's going on with them, and your mind kinda starts walking away from I still think it's a good practice. I think it depends on where you come from or how you do it. Okay. Alright. Let's let's check the next one. We'll see what we think about this one. Number two wait. This is number three. Having parents stand up on Mother's Day or Father's Day. What? Stand up? That's a thing. That's like an appreciation? Yeah. So, like, it's incredibly kind for your church to want to acknowledge parents on Mother's or Father's Day. We can all admit our awe towards all that parents do. Unfortunately, there's so many couples who struggle with infertility. Some couples have lost a child. Some single parents have limited or no custody of their children. These are all pains that can run deep. So while some parents stand up to receive applause from the congregation,

others sitting next to them might be choking back tears. I don't think that's wrong. That's appreciation. I mean, like, if you don't want them to show it, then don't go. I think okay. That's cool. Well, they don't Sorry. It's a cold take. I can kinda see how they wouldn't like it. Because what if you came from, like, a really troubled family? What if, like, your mom was never as nice to you as Patrick's mom over there? What if I mean, with that thought, though, we can never celebrate anybody. Right? Do you know what I'm saying? Like Let's start. Somebody's always had it rough, and somebody has has not. You know what I'm saying? And so once it's for the same reason that the sanctuary thing, it shouldn't be a problem. This also should not be a problem. I think we can acknowledge that, like, yes, there are hurts. Right? Like, we're just celebrating Father's Day, let's say your dad just passed away a week ago. Is that sad? Yes. Is it gonna bring back pain? Yes. And, like, all those things are true, but, like, not

every situation has to be run through you. Right? Like, if you look at the world and go, everybody should care how I feel about this all the time. It means that, like, you basically your worldview is centered on you. Right? Like, can I celebrate can I celebrate the accomplishments of somebody's children even if my children have done terrible things? Right? Can I still celebrate theirs? Yes. Yeah. Can I celebrate that somebody's mom and dad were a great mom and dad? Even if my mom and dad may not have been the best, do I look at other people's

good good the good in their lives and go, well, their good is less good because mine was bad. See, that almost yeah. That almost maybe this is not the right word, but it almost feels a little prideful almost even. To not do it because it is Because, like Mike said, like, you don't wanna whatever Mike just said, that was, I feel like, really true because yeah. Because what we want is, like, we can acknowledge that, like, these things would probably hurt, but what, like, what God is offering is freedom from some of that. Right? To have to hold all your own stuff all the time and then color everybody else's stuff with it and do this big comparison thing where, like, they got more money than me. They got better parents than me. They got a better house than me. They got a whatever. Right? Like, god's trying to break us free of all that stuff. And, like and by by allowing it to color your decision on whether we celebrate somebody or don't celebrate somebody, I think we're we're focusing on the wrong thing. What we're what we should be focusing on is like, can we celebrate with people who are celebrating? Right? God says, like, we we we weep with those who are weeping. Right? We celebrate with those who are celebrating. And nowhere in that equation, do you get to bring your own stuff in there and then try to color other people's. That doesn't sound like freedom to me. That sounds like chains. And it does sound slightly insensitive, and I do understand that. But, like, freedom's kind of insensitive that way. It goes, I don't care what you're being chained by, you need to let it go. The whole point is to not be chained to anything. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it it is totally appropriate to be aware

that different things hit people differently. And like being aware of that being and the closer you are to a person who's in a situation, you will know that when they do the, hey, happy Mother's Day everyone and someone has recently lost their mother or when it may have a different relationship with one of the children or something like that, you know enough to go comfort that person that this may hit them differently. But you don't have to change the macro thing. I think this goes back to some of the things, I think Mike, were talking about even was we're talking about some of the COVID stuff that like there's a question of how much of the world do I expect to bend to my personal situation versus how much do I have to recognize that my personal situation is personal to me And do I really want to, because like think of it from this direction, we don't do this because it makes people who are in rough situations sound insensitive.

But like, and if you had a 100 people in the church and one person recently lost their mother or something or didn't have a good relationship with their mom, do you not allow to celebrate the other 50 moms in the room for that day because your situation wasn't ideal or is in a rough circumstance? Okay. Okay. I can kinda see it from that point of view now. Okay. So like, so now, but again, is the person who's in a rough circumstance, the people who are close to them will recognize that this may hit them differently. There's some people where, like, one of the things I do, anytime I've done a funeral or even just had someone who's, someone close to them has died, I generally, I'll add their date of death into my calendar.

And I'll just set it as an annual, like an anniversary thing. Not because we're gonna celebrate the death, but it provides me context in if I'm gonna, maybe I interact with them or maybe I just, you know, sometimes I'll just follow-up and say, Hey, this has been a year since so and so passed and just, you know, praying for you today and, you know, memories that come with it and may you find joy in them, like whatever, some encouragement. But because contextually, something that used to be, could otherwise be a great day, now has some sort of something related to it and so you should be cautious of that but like it's a whole different thing to say the rest of the world, I want it to take away from other people because it may impact me negatively. There is a selflessness to having to think of it that way. Yeah. Okay. The next oh, the solution they said is skip the mother or father based sermon and congregation recognition.

If you still want to honor parents, have children make a crafty gift in children's ministry to give their parents at home. Yeah. I I just I don't know that you're I don't know that you're doing people any favors by reinforcing the idea that your the thing that is happening in in your life should take away celebrations in others. Yeah. And I honestly feel like that might feel to people that, like, can't celebrate that kinda feel worse. I would. Then they think it's like a secret, you know, like a Yeah. I don't know. Feels a little worse to me personally. But Yeah. Yeah. I think be sensitive but but carry on. Yeah. Alright. The next one was fill in the blank bible studies. I love those. Oh. They're coming for them, Layla. I don't care. Oh, dear. Studying the bible with a group of people is a great way to strengthen your community and expand your knowledge of God, but there's a considerable difference between strengthening your knowledge and relationship.

When we consider our relationship with God, we want to create a friendship more than a fandom. So how do we fix this? Do away with the fill in the blank exclusive bible studies. Start pursuing both the head and the heart aspects of having a relationship with God. Yeah. That that's not helpful, what you just said. Right? Like, I walk up to somebody that is trying, like, they they trying to figure out what their relationship with god looks like, and I say, you know what you should do? You should pursue the head and the heart relationship. And they're like, how do I do that? I'm like, not fill in the blank bible studies. Good luck. You're on your own now. That seems wildly arrogant, to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. I I, like, I I get maybe the the caution of

you don't wanna make someone's like our understanding of God is merely a series of facts, but like part of the teaching of studying your Bible is actually getting to that very point. It's like, hey, these aren't all just facts, there are relationships. Like, heck, you're fill in the blank maybe. This is more than a knowledge thing. This is relationship. But like, as a way of which people otherwise retain things that they've learned, remind them to prey on things, things they can look back and reference, I don't Amanda, that Exactly. I think it's almost like memorizing a verse. Like, in the bible study I'm doing, we do that a lot. Like, it'll give you most of the verse, and then you have to fill in the parts, like, look up the verse and fill in the parts. And personally, that helps me, like, focus on what I'm doing. Because if I'm just reading it, I'll forget it within the next, like, ten seconds. I was kinda thinking along those lines, actually. I was just kinda thinking about remembering, like, what if someone remembers something in, like, a really strange way, but it's how they help remember it? Like, someone could help, like, remember a bible verse, like Layla was saying, by maybe filling in the blank, and they'll be like, blank, blank, blank. There we go. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, like like and think how practical it is too. Right? So so sometimes when I'm in the real straits and I can't seem to get myself

centered on things, I remember that god will lead me beside still Waters. Waters. Right. Exactly. Is that a bad fill in the blank? No. Because I'm I'm 40 years old, and I'm still using that when I pray. I still I still pray. Father, will you lead me beside still waters? Will you take me to green pastures? Right? Will you restore my soul? Right? So, like, is it a bad thing that I memorize that verse by some kind of fill in the blank whatever? I I still use that to both further my head and my heart relationship with Jesus. Yeah. See, kinda what I was talking about like that because the re how I remember that how I remember that is because of the Come What May song, how it says in every high and every low. Oh, yeah. He takes me a percent yeah. Whatever. He says that verse in there, so that's how I always remember it. We can just, like, can help, like, cope with remembering something. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, if you're trying to get at, hey. We we wanna make sure it's just not academic knowledge transfer, that's fine. But this is just a medium of which people remember things, and so I I yeah. Seems weird to go after it directly. Yeah.

Next, gathering for singles filled with non singles. What the heck kind of problem Is are this a dating church? Yes. It says Well, I mean, oftentimes churches will put together, like, ministries for people in specific life situations. That doesn't seem bad. Yeah. Maybe not. I'm I'm always I'm always cautious here. I was an executive pastor at a church and, like, this is the type of thing executive pastors do is kinda put together events and, like, I'm terrible. I'm traditionally bad at it. But, like, I always thought that, I don't know. Are we in the are we in the matchmaking business? Are we in the the fraternization

Matchmaker. Business? I just I I it felt like a weird it was weird for me. Maybe it works for other people. But it says, it's great that your church has a ministry intended for singles to get together with other people in the same stage of life. It's not so great when the singles group in a church has become filled with married people. Why? I don't understand this Why particular why why would you have a singles group if you had married people? Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand. We're gonna skip this because I Married couples are great. I'm not sure why this is happening. Okay. Because that may that makes me really confused. Yeah, agreed. I don't even understand that question. Why would a church even have a singles group night? Well, let's say you had a church with quite a few people in it and people who are single are looking for other people who love and serve Jesus And what better way to find them than to have some sort of event where all the singles come together? But the thing It's like having, like, a friend group, like a time like a children's group because you find friends. You know? But the thing is, the church is not a dating app. The church is not somewhere you try to meet people. It's not it's not that, but it's not what the church is used for. The church is used for learning about God. Well, you look at it as a community. Take the word church out and put it as community.

Can your community of people who love Jesus, is that a good place to try to find a future wife or husband if you love Jesus? The answer is yeah. That's where they're at. Yeah. All people that love Jesus are in a are in a community of people that love Jesus. And so, like, is it wrong to say, hey. Let's just look around and see if there's anybody here. Yeah. I'll just know, fact that in fellas. That's right. I it's it can be done super cheesily, and it can be done in a not helpful way. You know? Like, I some some of that stuff I feel like is better if it's a little bit more organic, but whatever. Yeah. I mean, that's how I would generally think about it is that, like, don't rely on the the the the church because then you got people whose job it is to put together this Christian mingle.

But, like, do what you would always do, which is, like, your friend who's got a friend and says, hey. Know over this person and maybe you should go have a coffee or tea. Yeah. Okay. Next, outreach that doesn't serve your community. We're talking about church activities that we should stop. This one is outreach that doesn't serve your community. Outreach is a critical part of the church, but do you know what else is vital? Understanding the community you're serving. All the churches in our community are the body of Christ. Not every church can be an arm, and not every church can be a leg. So take an inventory of the needs of your community. Pray about where God would like you to serve, and see who in your church can help. I don't understand how the title of it matched with the description of it. Yeah, I'm confused. We're against this? Well, they're proposing that there's a situation in which you go out and do outreach but doesn't actually like, I maybe they're saying you offer you do, like, give away free shoes or something, but you're traditionally a more wealthy neighborhood and no one needs the shoes. I think I think what they're driving at is, let's say, that the Lutheran church is already running a food pantry,

and you Oh. Your church just fired up a food pantry just so you can say you have one. Ah. Right? That's not It's it's for looks. That's right. That's not serving your community well. You should probably just give your food to the Lutheran church and let them distribute it. Right? Like, makes most sense. Seems wrong. I thought what you were saying was you shouldn't be churches shouldn't be helping other people outside their community, and I thought that was really selfish. I think what they're trying to get at is is, like, will you make sure you're actually helping? You know what saying? Like, your focus is on helping the community, not growing your church, not making you know, not helping you to feel good about yourself. Right? Like, make sure your helping is actually doing what you're intending it to do. It's actually helping people. Yeah. I feel like that's the best one there's been yet.

Yeah. So it was the opposite of what I was thinking. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I Took it the wrong way. Okay. Alright. And finally, boy, these are interesting critiques. Mom events that are only held during the day. Motherhood is hard. So what better for your church to offer than a support group of like minded women who are also trying their best to navigate the challenges of being mothers? But the problem is that working moms are often excluded from these groups. A weekday morning might work best for most moms participating, but your church needs to find a way to meet the working moms where they are. You could offer two different gathering times, one which includes after work hours. Additionally, you could consider doing something for moms once a month with childcare provided. We need to support each other as we raise God seeking families. Okay. Let me take this one to start. So this is kinda like the previous one. If you just told me that most of the moms can, like, it works out and it's best for them to meet during the day, then I think you should meet during the day. I also think I would pull it out of the church's hands. This is where I'd like to see individual groups of people, like if you've got moms who are working in the workforce but would like to do something like this after,

like in the evening hours, then they should also do that, which was the recommendation but it's just a weird thing to call out. There's no reason to ask to have the whole thing bend to you. Just find a way to make it work with the people in which it makes most sense for it to work. And I think you get into this when you stop boxing in, like one of the things that we did, and again this may be, in some ways it feels like it could be unique to a house church, I actually am not sure that it has to be, but like, we don't have any standing ministries in the house church. So like, we always started from, hey, are we gonna do a men's group? And my response was, I don't know, are you? Hey, are we gonna have a youth group? I don't know, are you? Right, like, and frankly if the ladies started doing something and then whoever was leading it didn't want to do it anymore, then we just wouldn't have one until God called someone else to go do that. And so similar here that like if it's on someone's

heart and God has called them to say, Hey, set up something for the working moms who are available in the evening, then you should do that. I'm wary of feeling like it is a church infrastructure responsibility to hold up a ministry when God has plenty of motivated people who can serve Him in this way and if He's calling them to do it, then it'll get taken care of. If He's not calling them to do it, I don't know that you gotta force the better. Yeah. I think just be leery of things where you feel like they have to be official. Yeah. Right? Like, there's a stamp of approval or there's some kinda like, it's blessed by whatever open bible church you're going to. Right? If you want to get together with other working moms, just do it. Yeah. And and and raise your kids and talk about Jesus. You wanna get together with the dudes at 5AM and yell at each other? Do it. Just do it. You don't have to go, like, I need this sanctioned or, like, we need the sanctuary. Like, do it in your basement. Go to the coffee shop. I don't care. There's, like, a thousand ways to get this done, and it seems like we're you're putting in like, the onus is on the church to direct you how to live in community with each other. And, like, that is not a name of the church. The church is is there as a as a a collective community as a whole. Your actions are what are what make up the community, not the the community doesn't make the actions. You your actions make the community. Yeah. Yeah. And that goes back to the, I think, the thing we initially started off with, is is it a problem?

What was the number one? The old people stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were talking about whether, is this a problem that people just aren't going out and doing things on their own? And there was something about our church infrastructure that kind of puts them on a path and doesn't have them going out and serving. And I do think this is like a really good example of that is we wait,

we've removed, I think, the natural intent or guide of people to go start something up, to feel something in their bones, to go try it out. We feel like it has to be a blessing. It's one of the, I had a guy recently, I was at a, I don't know, was at some sort of like homeschool sporting event and he just started talking to me and he's asking about being a pastor or whatever. This guy works with pastors, think, for some political purposes, of which I'm probably not who he's after. But like, he was asking, oh yeah, I know it's tough being a pastor and I thought, you know, I don't know, I don't have that. Yeah, don't think that way. I'm not running into this problem. But one of the reasons is, is that because there's all kinds of things of which, like, I've exempted myself from. Like,

if people want to start a ministry, don't care, I'm not the giver outer of ministries. If you're asking me for help in discerning what you might say at such a thing or like, would just randomly, not because I'm a pastor but because of you just are interested in what I think, okay, that's fine but like, I don't bless or not bless ministries. That's not my job. I don't, we don't take in money here. I'm not burdened with having to be a banker and so, there's all kinds of things in which like the burdens of

that often pastors are trying to balance and manage and carry, I don't really have. And so I'm like, I'm sure it's, it is difficult for a lot of those folk, but I don't know, I just did not relate to the phrase, this is super It comes with its burdens, of course, but not in the same way. Not in the same way. All that being said is because I'm surrounded by a body of believers where if someone who is close to them goes to the hospital, I'm probably the third guy who knows. I'm not the first guy. They're probably gonna call the person closest to them and they're gonna go to the hospital. I don't need the pastor's parking lot, the special spot. I probably won't be going like someone else in the community is doing that and that's healthy. That's

the type of thing to encourage and I don't think that's limited by church size. I think the roundup is is like, if you ever come across the phrase that says the church should be doing x, just take the church out of it and put your own name in there. You Right? Like, if you think that that we should be having a homeless ministry, I should find you out there doing it by yourself way before I find you trying to get money and support, you know, from the church budget. Right? Like, if you cared about it, you'd be doing it. It's where words and actions kinda meet up. Right? If you wanna start a food bank or feed the homeless or start a a working mom's ministry or whatever you decide that needs to happen, you should probably already be doing it before you're ready to start, you know, coming after the church for not doing it. Yep. Yep. Agreed. Okay. Just before we leave this, is there anything missing from the list where you would think, you know, churches, we should probably start to we should give this up. Was surprised that the that the that the handshake time wasn't on here. Oh. Yeah. The stopping of the forced get to know your neighbor type of stuff. Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Agreed.

I mean, how awkward would it be if you turned to someone you don't know and they're looking at you going, hi. Hi. And you don't wanna shake their hand because the very generational thing that finds that awkward. Right? Like, that is that is a new that is a new thought as far as generations go where you're like every generation prior to yours would have just gone, it's a new person. No big deal. Yeah. Right? But, like, it's a very generational thought right now that, like it's the same reason that texting is so prominent and phone calls are so scary. Hey. People would rather just text and not have to have a a personal interaction just like like checking out at the gas station or, like, all things that, like, give the younger generations. They're like, I would just rather avoid all that. See, I don't understand the phone call situation. I'd gladly take a phone call. It doesn't matter from No. You're right. Like, I I'm saying generational things, and there are personal differences. Like, there are like, you your personality would lean more towards that. But, like, in general,

your generation does like, the handshake thing is like, nope. I'm not interested. Well, we're like mine would just go, I you know, I can meet all kinds of people and just shake their hand. Well, I think And it's not awkward. Well, I think that's the thing. Like okay. How do I put this? People are, like, continuously changing, like evolution. Crap. Why did you nefariously whisper evolution into the microphone? Seemed right.

Evolution. But okay. So you know how, like, in the eighties, like, kids would bike all around town. Kids would do Yep. They'd go be out in the world. He was biking. Mhmm. Well, it's probably biking. She's thinking of stranger things. They bike everywhere. Okay. But it's a lot less, like

I'm gonna use the word dangerous. Like, there's probably a lot more people who would try and steal a child biking around than there probably were in the eighties. Oh, you you think child bike theft Well is up? You think Imagine it no. Not specifically bike theft. She's saying, like, the world is changing, so we can't do the same things we used You were because you were saying, like, I'd gladly shake that man's hand. Well, what if some 60 year old man came up to me and go, shake my hand? I'd probably go, no. I mean, at a church time, sure. I mean, that wouldn't bother me at all. At the quick quick trip, then maybe I'd be a little bit more like, ah. See? That doesn't fit the situation you're in. Mhmm. But like at a church building, yeah, I I don't think that would be an issue. Yeah. Don't know that you have to get again, you know, I think a lot of this gets me though because of the sizes of things. Like, we have it, so again, smaller community house church, there's breaks between major sections of what is it that we're doing and people are certainly talking and chatting around and telling stories and stuff. It's it's more so I feel like that if that it feels like, hey, go find go find the guy who happened to wander in here and make sure like, maybe the greeting in general. That's what I'd get rid of. Aggressive guy in the parking lot.

Two or three peep people sat outside. Like, they don't what what feels welcoming feels like a sales pitch. Yes. And I think there is a uniqueness, this gets to a little bit to Ella's point, like there is a generational thing and I remember having this conversation with a group of pastors that are a generation older than mine, is that they were talking about sound systems and lights and fog and stuff. And I said, man, that shifted. Like, if the people who you are targeting don't like to be sold to,

they don't like the sense that you're trying to manipulate them. And so, like, the lights might have been a thing, but they're not a thing anymore, like, for this generation. They don't like it. Why does that feel like you know when you go to a new church and they go, we have gift bags for you in the lobby. I feel like that's how they sucker you in. They're like, come closer. I know. Come on. We'll give you gifts and you can come back. I mean, who's sold by, like, a cheap coffee mug you got had your church logo printed on? Probably homeless Jeff over there. Hey. Are we giving homeless Jeff a cup for free? Right? If we cared about homeless Jeff, then we'd gone down to homeless Jeff's camp and just gave him a cup. Well, what if it wasn't homeless Jeff when it was rich guy Patrick? Rich guy Patrick doesn't need your bag of doodads and wobbles. Exactly. See? So they're like but I feel like that's how you would sucker in someone. What if what if, like, what if I wanted a free mug? Just wow, I can add to the collection of mugs. Yeah. So here's the here's the thing. Actually, this is a this is real thing piece from a church perspective. If someone walked into your place, what do you want them to take away from whatever it is that you gave them? That that you had budget for plastic cups, travel mugs? Like to go, oh, wow. That church is cool. They gave away their own special blend of brew and a a mug to go with it. Or hey, they have all these events going on. If I went to a church and I could walk away from being there one time and go holy cast, these people are about the work of Jesus. If I could walk away from that, that's a church I'm gonna come back to because that's the thing I want. I wanna be involved in that. To my point, like, I I don't really need more mugs. I think how weird it would be if we did this at a house church. You walked into my house. You ate breakfast. We sit and listen to the sermon. We worship together. We prayed, and it was awesome. And then on the way out, you said, hey, man. Can I have one of your mugs? And I give you cup from your place. Give you my coffee mug out of my cupboard, and you're like, I guess. Yeah. You know? Would it be like a party favor? Okay. Dad. Okay.

Yeah. I have something I want to be on that list. Okay. I don't like fancy worship. What do you mean? How do you what how do you think fancy? And the no. That's the fun part. Exactly. I mean, fun is good. Jesus is fun. But Evolution. Jesus. Evolution. Like, I don't it makes it I feel like it distracts you from the real point of worship. Okay. I can kinda see that. I don't like it, personally. Yeah. I I think it depend it depends At,

like, a a thing where it's about that, like, Ignite the Ignite Youth Leadership Conference. That is about a big group of worship where you're supposed to get excited. You're supposed to get like, the Rand Collective concerts. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's what it's meant to be. But if you're at, like, the church in Grimes. I'm gonna get a fog light for our church. You don't have to call a lot people. Not the church in Grimes specifically. They don't do that, but just I'm just naming the church. Yeah. Yeah. Like, a big church like that that has a lot of people. Like, I feel like sometimes they overdo it a little and kinda make it feel more like a performance than an act of worship. More pyrotechnics. Now Tech Do you feel like like if I don't know how to ask this. Do you feel like you've come to that conclusion on your own, Or have you heard people say things about that kind of thing? People who are saying that agree with me. I said it first. I coined it. I coined it.

Know. It's it's weird. I I think it it catches me in moments. Like, there are sometimes, like, large very large worship where the, like, the amplification and stuff is super practical. And you can't hear yourself. Like, you have to do it for people to hear this person. Like, that's that feels okay with me. And I frankly, like, if a guy loves Jesus and is gonna love Jesus playing a synthesizer, like, I don't know why I would care about that. No. I that's fine. I don't care when people are, like, getting into it with the music and stuff. That's fine. If I don't like it when it seems like they're acting. Okay. Okay. Or, like, fake worship. Like

yeah. Yes. Fake worship. Like, when it seems like they're, like you know, when the guitar guys really get into it jumping up and down, he is not that excited. So He's doing the white snake. So When he's on his knees like, no. That's not to right. Look cool. They just don't want I don't know what yeah. They just just they just wanna look cool. Okay. Yeah. You're afraid of that. I don't like it. Okay. So you regardless of the amplification like, either way, fog's manipulative, generally speaking. What do you what do you mean by that? Is fog coming up to you and going, hey. But you can't eat that dong room. Fog's manipulative. Meaning meaning, like, there's no like, that is implicitly a show. That is trying to get you to feel something. Exactly. Okay. So what's the difference in that though than taking

thirty seconds of big deep breaths before you pray? What? You know I'm saying? Like, it's So setting the scene is what you're saying. Yeah. Right. Like, but, like, like, you read a lot of of devotionals or, like, prayer apps or whatever, like, they'll have you take big deep breaths, slow yourself down, you know, get your scattered senses focused on a thing. I feel like that. And so it is trying to to help you get into a space or an atmosphere. Yeah. It feels like I actually don't like those either. It feels like an impostor of the thing. Feel like that's just trying to get the vibe. The breath the breath and the focus is the thing.

Some of that stuff feels like it's trying to bypass the physical things that you do to otherwise engage or be part of worship or something like that and just and just basically convince my senses about it. That's maybe what it feels like to me. Like, I'm not actually a proponent of the fog either. I I think it's dumb, but but what here's the thing though is I really like big worship. Mhmm. Because I do too. Like, they have they have a great like, it sounds good. It's pleasing to the ear, and, like, they have talented people singing Yep. And people playing, like, who are good at what they do. And as long as they're not as long as they're not phony about it Yeah. They're not phoning it in Yeah. Then it's awesome to be, like, surrounded by god's people, especially talented god's people that are helping me worship well, and, like, I can get lost in the whole thing. See, I definitely agree with that. I think it it can be super powerful and, like, very helpful for worshiping and whatever. But like you said, phony, fake. Like, if it looks like they're trying to put on a show, I don't I can't focus. I don't like it. What do you to another we went to a different church last week. When we did that, I really

I really got into the worshiping. Mhmm. And I was, like, really, like I was really enjoying it. I was, like, felt like I was talking to God. I was just I was having a pretty good time. It just it felt really nice to have, like like, since we're a smaller church, it's not like we have a whole cage with drum set in it. We don't we don't have that. No. We want a cage drummer. I'm I I love your cahoon plank, but we need a drum set. But I just I've I do feel like that sometimes. I feel like I feel worried sometimes that people are gonna focus on the, wow. There's a bubble machine instead of god's over here, you can be praying and you can be worshiping. Yeah. Okay. So it feels like the the the the key thing is is our worship honest? Is it like, are we not trying to pull to manipulate you into something? We're we're inviting you into something that's real Yes. And true, And we don't feel like we have to to do anything outside of whatever the the things that god has provided

for us to be able to do that. We don't want showy worship. Okay. We don't want showy worship. Okay. So Leila would pull back the the showy the showy worship. I'd pull back the bookstore. There's a book oh, yeah. The bookstore. And the church we went to last week, there was, like, a bookstore cafe thing. We felt awesome. A bunch of hillbillies. We do. But, like, I like, I just you know, I I if I I took the indoor plumbing out. People go in the outhouse like the Lord intended. That's not what I'm saying. But, like, I just I find the whole thing distracting. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Like, take my recommendations and then go buy the book yourself. Oh, yeah. It feels like an enterprise. It actually goes back and I think sometimes we over crank on the literalness of this, but like we were just talking about Jesus overturning the stuff in the temple and like the exchange of the money actually isn't a particular problem that's allowed, but it's doing business in the temple is specifically the problem. Not doing that business, that business can be done, but it does not belong there. It's to be a house of prayer. And frankly it was an indictment on the Jewish leadership. They would have recognized some of the stuff what Jesus was saying by whatever Jeremiah seven and Isaiah 56. So like,

but like it's not and so is it okay if you want to sell coffee at your church? Probably, but I think you should do it outside. Like it's it's just such a clarity of going like what are you here for? Are we doing in here? And anything that I don't like anything that smells like enterprise Yeah. Yeah. Within the church with the church building. Like, when they're selling, like, the shirts and the hats with, like Yeah. I just don't they're selling church merch? Yes. Church merch. It's crazy. Yeah. I just name, though. I don't know about that. I'm I don't like it. I don't like it. Maybe it's and here's the thing. I could just be old, like, old I'm squirrely. Yeah. But, like, any anything that sniffs here's the thing. Remember when I was the story I'm telling earlier about like pastoral duties. Anything that someone has to spend their time doing like, hey, you could be doing x or y and y is manning the merch table at the church. Like, Manning the coffee shop. No. Give it away. Like, I just I don't know. That that's the Yeah. I think the big caution is is, like, you can be lulled into the false sense of that's hands and feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I and and you're gonna take this offensively, but, like, you're not serving the kingdom of god by manning the bookstore at church on Sunday.

You're just not. Right? Like, this is not sacrificial living. Are you but what if you're the one that's helping stack the doughnut tray? Yeah. I think that's different. Okay. Are you giving out free doughnuts? Yeah. As a service to others? Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. That's different. I have one more thing to add to that list. Okay. Put it. Okay. Now hear me out. Sounds sketchy. The pews. I don't like pews either. The wooden they're just they're two pieces of wood.

They're one here. You're saying they're uncomfortable? Yes. Like Yes. Get some benches or, like, comfy cushioned benches. A bench. A pew benches. But the pew doesn't have cushioning, and it's kinda just it's kinda just like flatbread. It's not comfortable. What kind of Puritan shop are you did you go to? Okay. Now I get I understand some churches don't have Bigpalooza. Wow. We got these cool fancy chairs. I get that. Ella, we're just spoils. We we listen to the It feels like you're talking about going to church in the prison. Like, I've I've not been to a church with such uncomfortable pews. I have. Okay. Stop saying pews like you're shooting a gun. Pews. Wow. How else are wait. How are you? Wait. Pete. Arlo. Pew. Not Arlo. Dad. Interesting. He just goes This revolt against pews. I know where the pair of you have gone church for the last twenty years. And, I I We don't have pews. Yeah. I don't understand. You're kicking back against things that you don't even experience. The I know. We're sorry. It's just we're too we're we're spoiled. Is since we have couch living. Since we have house church, we have couches and such. But even the floor is more comfortable than those pews, even if you don't have a rug. I mean, the lord gave you a cushion that you get to take anywhere. Think this falls under the same discussion as the mother's day, father's day conversation. Yeah. The whole thing don't have to run through you. Be grateful that you're here. Some people some people like a firm seat. Yeah. Alright. This you're listening live from the path. What would you add to the list? 5155170085. That's the Bob Eisenhower live from the path complaint line. Call or text a one, maybe we got it wrong. Maybe you could say that out loud as opposed to complaining to your spouse about it. Two, maybe you wanna add something to the list. You say, I really wish this could go so that we can all benefit from your now be cautious with your critiques

here, we'd love to hear from you and see what you got to say. Hit up the Life in the Path. Eisenhower complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Okay. It is America's third fastest Internet game show. Is this love? Is this love? Travis, we're gonna Ella Fousse is gonna provide us with a scenario

and we have to decide whether this scenario represents love or not love. Now I would like to take a quick poll. Is Mike able to vote? What? Did he did he help come up with scenarios? Did that that was him. Why did you help with did you help with the question? No. I didn't. I tried to and she wasn't having it. Good job. No. He didn't. I said you're gonna be my backup in case this fails. Did you use AI to generate any of these questions? No. But I did look it up on Google. Okay. I not I got nothing from Google. Okay. What? How many questions do we have? One. I have one so far. That was very under Maybe after Ella's, you can look up a few AI generated questions. Okay. Well, maybe we'll do the one because the show's running just a hair long already. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I apologize. I I have one as well. I have one. So we got two. Okay. Do yours then I'll do Perfect. Hey. Leila sniffed you out from a mile long. You do have one. I have one. I was just trying to prepare in case it was It's because I told him earlier today. I said, can we do his as well? And he goes, yeah. I'll think of examples. And I was like, I was gonna offer to do it, but okay. Scintillating. Alright. Go ahead. Tell me tell me hit me up with one. What's the scenario? Oh, dear. So It's a frequency, Kenneth.

Kenneth? Never never. Sorry. Who's Kenneth? That's I made a mistake. Oh, dear. This makes me scared. Wait. What was the premise of Is This Love Again? I need to make sure I have the right example. Told me I got this covered, dad. I Don't worry. I needed I said I needed to run it through you. Some, Ella. Ella. Go. I'm better on the spot. It's a scenario where it's someone like my boyfriend gave me flowers, but then sent me a text later with a broken heart. Is this love? Or something. I don't know. Like Okay. I've got that premise. This is not love. Correct.

Okay. So a clown walks up to a lady and and offers her flowers. A married lady. Well, context. She's married to the clown? No. She's married. To not the clown, dad. He's Okay. Got it. He is this love. Well, no. Ella, you were not ready for this. You promised me you would be you I needed understand the premise, and I thought, hey, dad. Can I run something by you? And you go, I'm gonna be guessing too. And I like, oh, no. I can't. Okay. That is that is not love.

Clown approaching a married woman. Is he dressed as a clown? This is not Is he in full color? Well, the background was it was her birthday, and he was giving her Abby birthday. Okay. Oh. Doesn't matter. I got one. Oh, dear. Okay. Okay. Your boyfriend comes up to you. K. Gives you flowers. It's Valentine's Day. Gives you flowers. Gives you chocolates. Gives you cuddles. Whatever. Yeah. Cuddles. He's a great person. Okay. He seems like the perfect man for you. The perfect man, Cuddles. What? But Yeah.

He also when your best friend gets there Oh. He sits next to her instead of you. Is this love? Okay. I I'm gonna answer the answer is yes. It is love. He's sitting next to your best friend because they are in cahoots to give you a special day to continue the special day that he's already started. So, yes, I think this is love. Wait. Was the is this love question between the man and the best friend or the man and his girlfriend? Man and his girlfriend. Yeah. Mike, your opinion? Can I ask a follow-up question? Sure.

Dad, you can too. So so you're the only person that got the cuddles Yes. And the cards and the whatever? Yes. Is he sitting like, there's a correct space between you and a non, intimate relationship friend? Is he closer than he should be, or is he he's the right distance? He is they are whispering. That's what I'm saying. Oh, it's gonna be a surprise proposal. Okay. I'm with Ben. This is love. Yeah. I think it's I think it's adding to the day, not taking away. Yeah. I'll ask. Okay. I apologize. I'm gonna have to be like the bulldozer of love and caring and feelings right now. I do not believe this is love.

Wait. Hold on. Please explain your answer. Because wait. Hold on. I did not think of this there. Okay. So You didn't think of a reason. You knew that you were kissing. No. I knew. Okay. I I thought of something wrong. But k. If you think about it, if the man sits next to your best friend, right, then they're probably.

What is I can't no one can hear you. They're probably no. No. No. No. No. What is this? They're probably secretly seeing each other, but the thing is, if he sat by his girlfriend, then okay. She's gonna think, oh, why aren't they sitting next to each other? Is there something wrong with her? Is is he judging her? But then the thing is, if he sits next to her, then she's gonna think, oh, nothing's happening right now. Eli, I love your explanations, we gotta keep this moving. Is it love or not? No. Okay. Wait. What? Really? No. No. And yes and yes. The secret of and I are again, on the romantic side. Ella says they're in cahoots for canoodling. Okay. The answer is it is love. It is love. Oh, wow. Were they planning They were planning a Valentine's party. He's taking her to the Cayman Islands, wherever that is. Wow. They have to go to The Caribbean.

And he will propose there, and they will live happily ever after with two dogs, a kid named A kitten. Something. Olive. Alistair. Al no. Alistair. Allison. That's better. Allison Ray. Alright. Mike Fusser. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Are we all are we all offering one? Yeah. No. No. I'm not I'm not in. Here we I got one. Here we go. Mike Fooster is this low. It's 07:00 at night,

and the woman has just gotten home from working all day. Did you Google this? He hasn't worked for four years and doesn't even want a job. I don't like him. He expects that she has dinner made every night, and he even judges her when the food is served late. Mhmm. Is this love? No. They should get a divorce. Oh. Jeez, Layla. Coming on strong. Okay. I'll redo that. I'm not going yet. Dad, go ahead. Are we going in a circle? I'm not sure you could just pull it back. You, like, threw a stinky fish in the middle of the dining The worst thing you can do, Okay.

No. No. This is this is this is not love. This is not love. You it's it's one thing to be like, maybe the wife does it anyway because she likes you and you appreciate it and that's great. And it's okay that she if she made dinner for the for the two of them and their family every night for their entire lives, that's totally fine if if that's what they she wanted and, again, he was appreciative. But if he's salty about it, if he's being real surly, because it wasn't done and he has an expectation,

then I would say no. No. That's that's not love. I agree with my father. It is not love. And if it is, they need to fix their relationship, maybe go to a therapist or two. But Or two. And then go through the big Double up. And I don't mean doubts. But I think if he is not appreciating her for working when he sits on his butt all day. Tush. Tush all day. Hold on. Hold on a minute. Hold on. Be cautious there. Remember, these are tricky. Is it possible let me actually, let me give you a a a parabolic but real real story. The you guys do you guys know Madonna? Yes. Madonna. She's crazy. That's La Donna from Phineas and Ferb.

No. Okay. Madonna. That's her. Okay. That is That's the Beatles. Madonna from the Beatles. Okay. I'm actually a singer. I'm actually glad you're not She's the one who sang like a surgeon but Okay. The original Yes. There we go. Okay. So she was a a popular singer. And she's, like, really inappropriate. She okay. Very good. Wore crossings. She's cool. Alright. You guys. Sorry. She had a concert over the weekend and stopped her concert or, like, in the middle of a song, started chastising a man who was sitting down. And he said what? She said, why did you come to my concert? You're not gonna get anything out of this sitting down. What what is the possible problem with what she just said? He's paralyzed. Exactly. The man was in a wheelchair. Oh, it is. That is so sad. And embarrassing. Now I just want now think about the scenario you've been presented. Is it is there any way that this man, is in such a situation of which you're gonna be like, you lazy loafer, but instead,

he's living his best life and doing the best he can. Isn't no. Hasn't worked in four years and doesn't even want a job. Doesn't want a job. No. Wait. No. Because he was paralyzed, he would still appreciate his wife for what she does. Mhmm. He's not gonna maybe be paralyzed. She just got home at seven. Just got dinner all Yes. Ready to go. I think he can make his own dinner. And if he can't, then he needs to find something. If he makes his own dinner, it's gonna be microwaved ramen. That's better than nothing. Okay. Ben, you're on this is not love. That's not love. I agree. Not love. Feel like this is the type of fellow who says he wants to be a stay at home dad because from the beginning, because then you know that they're probably a sleaz. They kinda just sit on the floor watching TV with their kid going. True. You want you That is so true. Imagine a man sleaze. Imagine a man who that you first met, you're like, what do you want your future daughter to I wanna be a stay at home dad. Oh. Okay. Now hold on a minute. Hold on. If it's a stay at home mom, she's a productive, hardworking mother. If it's a stay at home dad You sound like the core. Selling drugs on the side. You okay? There's no way he doesn't have a side hustle. He's either selling mini ducks or drugs.

Probably both. In a package? Probably both. You get a real mini duck with tumor. Okay. Okay. Mike, we so we've not done something yet. We did. Some repentance in here somewhere. Every home every stay at home dad is a sleaze Well with a side gig of illegal drug dealing Well, if or you miniature ducks. If a stay at home mom is basically an angel. Not always. They can be rough. Woah. But not a drug dealing sleeve.

I'm just saying I'm just saying if a man starts out that way, if he started out by saying, I wanna be a Harvard lawyer. Okay. Then he turns out that the woman is a hardworking woman who has the better job. So then he becomes a stay at home dad to watch the show. That's acceptable. But if he shows up as black, I got full plans to be a stay at home dad. You know he's got the drugs in the back of the truck. And Ducks is called the real deal. He's got today for $5.99. He's got the beat up van in the back of the parking lot. Okay. Okay. So, Leila, you're a you're a no. This is not love. Ben's, this is not love. Ella, you're like, this is not love. Possibly sleazy drug dealing van driver. We're on the same side here. So The setup was she arrives home at 7PM, been working all day. He hasn't worked all day, hasn't worked in four years, has got no intention of getting a job. Drug dealer. But he does expect that dinner is ready every night and even judges when the food's late. Question, is this love? No. Yes. It is love. Of course. He's a dog. Oh, wow.

The woman married an animal? No. I didn't say they were married. I just said he. It's a dog. That's her dog. Oh my gosh. That's so smart. And what is that? You all get the sights. You'll never know. It again now that you know it's a dog. Right? It's 07:00. The woman's been working all day. Gosh. He hasn't worked for four years and doesn't even want a job. He expects that dinner is there every night, and he even gets judgy when the food is not on time. Gosh. That is a dog. That is a good one, Mike. I hate this game. This is capitalism. We've been rused. Alright. That is that that welcome to I mean, let's go with fourth fastest Internet game show with that showing. Let's go down to tenth if we But that's Is This Love. Hey. Do you like hey. Let's hit us up on the chat. What what is your favorite life from the path game? You like the I'll get we'll throw in the advice column. You get advice column, Walker Toke, secular Solomon, or is this love? Oh, I love the advice column. If you're old school, you I'll give you Deuteronomy Dan as a as a potential option. Oh, dear. Or what was the non biblical signs of the Non biblical signs of the apocalypse. Yeah. Okay. That one we can still do. I'll work on some of that for next week. Okay. Okay. Alright. Let's get Mike. Let's give off I think we're gonna your topic needed some more focus, so let's do it next week. Okay. Here we go. I'm out next week. Are you? We'll have to do it the week after, or you guys can cover it while I'm gone. Sorry. We took so much time talking about that guy and his drug dealing. Well, you never know. Maybe the dog has the many ducks in this dog house, and he's a dirt on up trader.

Dogs don't hand the money, though. You guys are interesting. It's kibble. The least. Maybe he doesn't have socks. Ready. Dear life from the path. Yeah. On paper, I'm an accomplished woman. I have a doctorate in educational leadership and had a thirty six year career in education, mostly as a school administrator. I am financially stable, and I have many friends. I also have an overwhelming sense of loneliness, and this is where my issues lie. I was well accepted when I lived in the North, but since moving to Florida, I've had trouble breaking into volunteerism. Really? Breaking I thought you were gonna stop breaking in. I was very confused. Becoming a volunteer. It took five years before I was accepted for a volunteer job in my community and only because of a board member's intervention. I have been told there are no openings on certain committees until they hear my background from someone. I joined a phil philanthropy. Phil philanthropy.

Philanthropy. Philanthropy. Say it again. Philanthropy. Philanthropy. I I my my teeth and gums get full of Philanthropy. Philanthropy group. It's embarrassing. Which cost me more than $1,000 a year. And as often as they ask for volunteers, I am never accepted. Recently, there was a social event sponsored by this group. I was not invited. I learned about it only when someone offered me a ride. When I asked my doctor for the name of someone I could talk to as the fault must lie within me, he was dismissive. I am sinking further into loneliness and and don't know what to do. Do you have any suggestions? Maybe the doctor doesn't know. What did you ask your doctor for? I don't understand. I this we're missing some very key pieces of information in this setting. Are we are we are we calling the doctor, like, a therapist? Like, is the therapist a doctor, or is she talking to a doctor who's scared of an apple doctor?

Unknown. Oh. Okay. I'm gonna try to sum this up because I'm confused by this setup. Me too. Basically, it's a a gal who had a very strong career. She did okay financially when she lived up north. She retired, moved down to Florida, and then is trying to get involved in volunteer things and be part of this group, and it's not happening for her. It's just not it's not clicking. And so her question is now she's very lonely. She and she doesn't know what to do. Do you have any suggestions? Okay. Let me Get involved in the church. Okay. That's good at like like serving donuts and being a greeter. You know that they they're gonna work in the books. Don't know. Running the fog machine. So

I well, this seems very narrowly focused. It like like you are saying as a as a converse example, you might say, boy, I'm having a hard time finding people to date, but you kept asking one guy. Yeah. Because, like, there's got there's a ton of organizations that accept volunteers. You seem hyper focused on a particular organization or group of org like, maybe it's the city. I don't know. It feels like it's government related. But, like Wait. Did she say how many she's tried? No. So maybe she's tried a lot. Like, there's some sort of background, like, waiting. But just think of the places the thing the top things that come to my mind as to where I might volunteer, I'm pretty dang sure I could go talk to them tomorrow and be volunteering within the next few days

at some of these, like, food banks, homeless shelters. Like Places that don't say no. Yeah. Right. Right. They're always looking for people. And so, like, whatever this, I don't know, elite volunteerism philanthropy place you keep you're trying to get yourself involved in, I feels like you have a very narrow thing. And so, like, if if you're lonely and you want to go to help and you're having trouble helping, I've my first recommendation would be is broaden your horizons. Like, seriously, you could volunteer tomorrow. I'm pretty confident of this. Mhmm. And to to Leila's point, I mean, just go hit up any church. Hey. I I wanna I wanna help. Is there anything I can help with around here? Go to the old folks' home. Or even if you don't wanna, like,

if you if the church doesn't have spots for helping, like, being in a community like that, they could help you find places. Yeah. You could also put out, like, advertisements. Like, if you made a poster, like, do you need help from Sherry? Call Sherry. Like, in the paper? No. Like, on the side of, like Help a Sherry. Posters. Like, on the side of, like, a concrete wall or something. You wouldn't use it. It's a stapler. That is so 1950. Have no idea what's gonna come out of your mouth half the time. I'm sorry. Advertisement posters for yourself. Well, you never know. On brick walls only. It's it's basically like a nannying service except for a whole deer.

Yeah. Okay. So I I think that's key number one. It's like I this all seems we're missing some key details here, but I would say this seems very narrowly focused. I'm I'm confident in Florida. There are plenty of places to volunteer. You could go be picking up on the beaches. There's plenty of places. Beaches you go to. Yeah. I think folks take over. I think at the what there she is the old folks. The a the elderly. Here's the thing. It's like, at the end of the day, I could try so hard in every aspect of my personality to, like, be in a community that I don't belong in. Right? She is just trying to make friends and be part of a group that just is not her community. Like, they don't want her there. She doesn't wanna be there. Like, it's it's falling. It's failing. You need to find new people. That's it. You're trying to hang out with the wrong people. There's the church again. I'm just saying, again, you can put out another advertisement like, join a club with Sherry and did yeah. Get it's not that hard. Just pick out the advertisement. It's not that hard. Just make yourself a poster. Make yourself look real cool by going. Secular says, are you affiliated with a religious institution in your community? Oh. If so, it might benefit you to talk with the clergy person. Man, you could be older. And ask why you have been excluded from volunteering. Like, he would know.

Is he like the community gossip wheel that knows why people won't let you volunteer places? In most communities, there's a crying need for people to donate their time and help. If that conversation doesn't provide insight regarding the attitude toward new arrivals in town, it may be time to reconsider relocating to a more welcome city, one with the opportunities for folks who would like to share their time and talents. I mean, this is Why does it seem fine except seems a little excessive. Why do they say relocating like you're some kind of forest animal? I mean, relocating also belongs to humans. Moving to a different city. Is it more often saying, oh, Barbara relocated to North England or a squirrel relocated to the Northern Pines. Mike, this is because of where you live, I think. Yeah. Your your kid has only a sense of the relocation of some sort of creature. I have a list on my phone called things Ella insists on. No. And

it's it's interesting to the things that she goes, this is the deal. Listen. YouTube shorts are not the lies. Problem. Okay. So Wait. You have a list? I this is a this is a we've heard a lot of advice requests. The details in this are just I I cannot get them together in my mind. Why did the person who's giving the advice say check with the church, like the church was the problem? And second, what does the doctor have to do with anything? Why is she talking to the doctor? And why was he dismissive of the volunteering? I don't I don't understand the parties. Also, the Southwestern House. Year to be part of the the the philanthropy group, you gotta pay to go volunteer for the philanthropy.

Philanthropy. That sounds like a fish. Philanthropy. Philanthropy. This is wild. Philanthropy. Okay. Here we go. We got one more, and then we gotta cut out of here. Okay. Alright. Dear life from the path. I have known my husband for ten years. Oh, dad. We have been married for four. Oh. We love each other very much. But I did something that has caused him to no longer trust me, and he won't forgive me. Oh, no. I went to a pub while my husband was at a class. I told him I was gonna go to the pub, and he was fine with it. We know everybody who works there pretty well. The problem is a nice man sat down a seat away from me, and we started talking about all kinds of stuff. At the end of the evening, we exchanged phone numbers. He texted me a week later wanting to know if I could meet him for lunch. I said yes. Big mistake. But we didn't meet because I realized it would be wrong. My husband saw his text on my phone, and he is upset and angry. Yep. He hasn't spoken to me since. It's been almost a week. He said he can no longer trust me, and he won't accept my apologies or forgive me. What can I do? Okay. The husband's being a bit of a jerk right now. Wow.

Like What? Hold get it. Hold on. I'll just reframe the story. While the man is in a class, his wife goes to a drinking establishment, whiles the night away with a friendly man. They agree to exchange phone numbers to extend the relationship. Dude follows up with her, asks to meet him and her, not him and the couple. She says yes. And the guy's being a jerk? Okay. So he is she did she made a fault. She really did. Fault. But then after the smaller fault came along that led to this big road of, oh, no Mhmm. She went, oh, that's wrong. And then she put her she put her down. But then the husband, after seeing that,

after about four years of marriage, I feel I'm not an expert. You should probably have enough trust based upon each other to not go looking through each other's phones. I'm just saying part of that. Oh, that's with Ella, except I think the lady went too far with it, one. Like, one, I mean, she definitely should have told her husband that she met this guy, told her husband that they exchanged numbers because that's a very teenager thing to do. And, like, also, I think it could have gone somewhere that it shouldn't have. Mhmm. And even, like, the notion that the husband thought that she didn't tell him, that is that breaks their trust because they should have told each other immediately.

K. Because that even if nothing did happen, like, you know, nothing bad happened or anything, that still could've. I'm Okay. I'm just saying it's a little childish of him not to speak to her for a whole week and saying, I refuse your apology. I refuse your explanation. I'm done with this. That's a little childish. Well, I it didn't say that he said that. It did. It did not. It did not. And what do you mean? It said he refuses my apologies, and he hasn't spoken to before. But it didn't mean he talked like some sort of berdijs and pirate. Was I talking like a berdijs and pirate? Yes. That's why I mentioned it. Okay. My bad. Alright. Hold on. Let's let's level set here. Okay? First point. The the the mark of trustworthiness

in your marriage relationship is that not that they is that your wife or or your husband has full rights to look through your phone anytime they want to. That is not sketchy. That is completely reasonable. I'm not saying it's sketchy. I'm just saying You for sure said it was sketchy. No. I'm just saying that you should have enough trust built in each other. That you That's why you should be able to look through the phone. At the phone anytime. That's right. That's right. I have taken this apparently a different way. Yeah. Yeah. Actual trust is I'm not worried about my wife ever looking at my phone. She can look at it anytime she wants to. There's nothing on there that's gonna cause me to worry what she sees or what she doesn't see. And if you are, you need a taco. Because you're living honestly. And so, like, if you feel like you have to hide what's on your phone from anybody for that matter, not even just your your spouse or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or your sisters or whatever. If you feel like you have to hide what you're doing on your phone, you're doing wrong things on your phone. That's why you're ashamed of them. Right? So, like, that is not good living. Two. Yeah. That's a huge breach of trust in a marriage to go meet someone of the opposite sex in an intimate

conversation and relationship that are those things are designed, and what built that trust in your relationship in the first place was you having those conversations with your spouse. I didn't know it was an intimate conversation. I thought it was just a friend of chat. I mean, they exchanged phone numbers at a club. What do you expect? Yeah. I so think think of it this way. Like, it feels it may feel casual, but like when you are when you're the only two people talking, that's intimate. When alcohol

is present, which tends to make people not make the same A decisions that they may little doozy. Yeah. Exactly. Right. And so like generally speaking, I would meet one on one with a lady in a social environment. Two, I would never drink alcohol in that situation of which may cause my mind not to be functioning and protecting in the way that I should in those types of situations. And so Layla, I mean, would you find it weird if if your dad went out and had it's it's a date. Right? Like, you're basically meeting a woman at a bar to drink and talk. If your dad went out on a date with another woman while being married to your mom, would you find that odd? I would go with you. That's not an option. Yeah. It's an intimate dinner. It's weird. It's wrong that he should not gross. Yeah. You're like, no. Those conversations and that situation Yeah. Happened with my mom. Yeah. That's what a marriage is. Mhmm. That's what she broke.

Yeah. That's what she broke. Yeah. It's a big deal what she broke. And I think it would be different. Now I I I sympathize actually with Ella's perspective. I do think a four year old marriage is a baby marriage. Yes. Yeah. It is kind of. It is a baby marriage. And so people are not acting hopefully the same way they would if this was a fifteen or twenty year marriage. Like, I actually think I would look upon a situation like this with with kindness. I'm glad that she stopped it, but that he had to like, this is to Layla's point, that he had to find it. Like, that's still the breach of trust. She should have told him immediately. She didn't say like even if, however many mistakes you make in your relationships,

like the if you're gonna put a stop to it, like the the thing that would have actually started to repair or cause the break not to be so bad was to go, Hey, I need to tell you about something. I let something get too far. I wasn't guarding the right things. And there's probably some reality too, Hey man, like you were gone. He made me feel special. We were talking about things in ways that we haven't talked for years. And I let something go a little farther than I should have. Not too far but I need you to I wanted to tell you. But it's different because if you tell tell him about it now, it's it's still breaking a little trust because you thought about doing the action, you thought about going to lunch with him. Mhmm. But it's not really breaking your bond of trust with each other quite as much because you came out and told him. He did not have to find out act like it was a secret. You did not tell him. He found it on your phone. Yep. He shouldn't have had to do that. So if you tell him first, then it feels a lot better because you took the responsibility of coming up and telling him something Yep. That you did wrong, admitting that you were wrong, and asking him to do again. Still be a lot of work too. Right? Because, like but but here's the outcome difference.

Is the way that she did it, the man feels betrayed. Right? And the trust is gone. If she would have told him, hey. I talked a long time with this guy. He made me feel this way. I'm I'm not gonna go to lunch with him. But, like, I it was it it was leading you down a path. He's gonna go, crap. I've let my marriage fall into this. Yeah. And I've got I I've gotta do something. Like, this is on me. He'll take it on him for the second way. On the first way, it's on you. Yeah. You've you've done ruined the trust, and now you got a problem. Yeah. So go ahead, Ella. Okay. How do I put this? Okay. So okay. You both are married.

True. Stop. Right. You guys you guys have learned a lot of things through your marriage. Right? Sure. Yep. Dad? Yes. Yeah. So, again, kind of what Ben was saying earlier. It's just that's four years is not a very long marriage. I should be talking to Mike. Four years is not a very long marriage. Mhmm. It's not it's not a really long time. So what if she made that mistake not knowing that that was, like, a really big thing? Like, I mean, I didn't think that was a big thing. And sure, I'm not married. I'm I've not been married.

But I feel like what if she didn't know that was, like, a big thing that was, like, oh, no. You shouldn't do that. Well, do you feel like cheating is a big thing? Because it's a step to cheating, basically, with someone else. Leila says it's the devil's dance. The cheating? Basic I mean, it is the first step. If you were with to cheat with someone secretly, that's how you would do it. That's how it would start. That. You would start. Well, yeah. Is that not how it would start? It's You would meet someone at a club. You would text them. You would get to know them. What if you tripped into someone. Start going over to their house. Say you were out with a with a friend at a restaurant. That is how it works. Leila, what experiences have you had in life that you've YouTube videos. I did. You sound like me. Okay. YouTube is a problem. Okay. Here here's the thing that I want you to keep in mind because because, like, sometimes, especially Christian relationships will take a a knock for this. Right? But, like, if you're trying to not drink soda, right, what's the best thing you can do when at home? Not drinking. Drink water. Don't don't put soda in your house. You have no soda in the house. That's how you don't drink it. If it ain't there, you don't drink it. If it's a temptation for you to drink soda, if it was there, you don't put soda in your house. It's why alcoholics don't go to bars.

If you wanna remain a person that is no longer drinking, you don't go to places where you're going to drink. Right? So, like but say hold the same metaphor. Right? This is the way that that that you protect your marriage. My marriage means so much to me that I will never have a dinner with a woman by myself ever for the rest of my life. What about your mom? Maybe my mom gets You're a grandmom. Charming. May may maybe my mother. But more likely, I'd probably take Ben and and and Chase with me. But, like, do you get what I'm saying? Like like, actions and words. Right? Like, actions show what your heart really means. And so, like, is it a problem? Are you automatically am I automatically gonna cheat on my wife just because I had a dinner with a woman? No. No. No. It's not automatic. Is there a chance of it?

Yes. Definitely. What if it was a company dinner? Yeah. There's then the company's there. What? No. That's not what I mean. But What what what if I mean your your six 83 year old boss wants to have a dinner with you to talk about sales prices and maybe promotion? Yeah. No. No. Not outside of work. No. My answer is no. And then, like, here's the thing is some people will agree with this and some people will strongly disagree like that's not necessary. You're taking freedoms away from yourself. God is not calling you to that. Here's what I know. The things that I love, I protect. And I don't I my goal is to never put myself in a situation where I could screw it up or put myself in a situation where my wife would have to worry about it. Yeah. Because she doesn't deserve that either. Yeah. I so like, if so I had I had lunch I've

had mostly female bosses. And so I had I could I could tell you, I don't know, within the last seven years or something, I had lunch with a female boss of mine. She she worked in a different city, and so she was down in our city, and we went out and lunched. But my wife knew about it. Like, I told her, hey. I'm going out to lunch with my boss. Yeah. And it was in it was lunch. It was in the middle of the day. They don't serve alcohol there. Like I always get super suspicious when dad talks about his female coworkers. I like it. Leila doesn't like when there's one on the video screen. It's the YouTube videos. Yeah. That's fine. So so, like, I I mean, I I think there are it would but it it would be a far different thing for me if that happened and I didn't tell my wife. There'd be no reason for because why would I hide it from her? I'm just meeting my boss. And so, like, I think that you gotta figure out whether your right lines are. But to to Leila's point, like, everything is the first step. You got to know where your risks are at. You have to you want to make wise decisions that don't put you in places where you can end up making decisions that you otherwise normally wouldn't make. So like basically make put in boundaries when your mind is right. Don't expect your mind to otherwise protect you once you've your environment is changing in such a way. And even if that's not alcohol, that could be the person you, like, are liking. Yeah. They might just give you the floaties. Just yeah. What? If we're The floaties. The buzzlies. The tinglies. Yeah. Tinglies. If we're counting,

associating with the opposite gender as a flirt meet and greet k. Couldn't also passing someone on the subway and accidentally bumping their shoulder and saying, sorry. Because it can it's just it's just an interaction. Unless you did it on purpose. That's Well, hold on. But are you saying it's the same thing to randomly

bump into someone in the subway, so a roughly one to two second interaction is on the same level as talk with someone for hours in a bar and then get and then agree to meet them for lunch, which is essentially another hour or two hours worth of talking. Same? Can we now take it out of context? It's a guy it's the same context. Not not the same. Well, now you now you took it out of my Now it sounds stupid. It's not the same. So okay. Now let's let's we're right here. Okay. We gotta get moving. Let's let's focus on the husband for a second. So his his marriage there's no reason his marriage is over here, but this is something he's gonna have to work through. I don't think it's I think it's okay. He's gonna feel pouty for a bit. He's he was bitter to Mike's point. He he he's gonna feel betrayed. He and he may not know what to say. You know I'm saying? Like, yeah, I may not have words if something like that happened. You may be someone who just, like, I don't know how to react to this. He's fight he's got conflicting feelings. He didn't have a reason to think that there was any trouble in his and now he finds out this happened. And his wife was and his wife wasn't hap like, wasn't honest with him. So now he thinks, right. Maybe he's failing his husband. He feels crappy about that. Finds out that maybe his wife does he thinks his wife doesn't love him or and that she's not honest with him. And so this is a promise that these these people made to say we're gonna be married forever. He's four years in and now he's going, crap. And then he may be doubting. Maybe she's done it before. Oh, right. Right. And right. And how do you Like, he had he doesn't know now because he can't trust her. How do you get over that? That's right. So This could lead down a road for the husband of bad things. Like, if the husband was like, I'm doing a terrible job. I'm doing I'm not loving my wife enough. I'm not doing great. Then but then he gets sad. Sad leads to depression, and depression sometimes lead to a path of alcohol. Then, you know, the next thing you know, he turns into the sleaze a stay at home dad. No. He turns into the sleaze dad. No. He's not in the direct worst of humanity.

It connects if you connect the right dots. Goodness. Okay. So I think it's I think from my perspective, if I'm talking to this man directly, I would say, okay, the time for you stonewalling has reached its end. You're like I know you may not know how to go forward, but it's not okay to to not listen to somebody. Forgiveness is a virtue, is the thing that Jesus calls us to. You are fortunate. If she took the active action to stop it, that's great, if she's being honest about that.

So that is something you have to work with and recognize that she did do that. But you've got some stuff to rebuild, so you need to be honest with her and say, look, I'm I'm I I don't trust you. Based upon this interaction, if if you would have told me, like, I I actually don't begrudge. Like, no joke. My wife could come to to me tomorrow and go, you know, I was went out and I came upon a felon. We talked for a couple hours and we exchanged changed numbers. With her messy bun and her sweatpants. Be nice to your mother for heaven's sakes. I love her. So it's The thing was your your wife wouldn't go to a bar. She'd go to, like, a guava juice place. I don't I don't know if she loves guava juice. And so anyway but, like, this could happen, and, like, this is not a crazy like, I can get I we can work through this. Like, I'm I think it would be weird, but, like,

we could totally get through it. But, like, there but there's stuff to work through there for him. And so I I think that needs to be done. I think, frankly, if he was not willing to listen, she she needs to write it down. There probably needs to be expectations to be set, I guess, with the husband. Like, if he needs if he doesn't set the expectations with her, she won't she won't know what to do. So Then they'll both feel separate. PowerPoint presentation on what not to do and poster. He can do. Another poster. Now yep. Yeah. Just to make sure we're level setting here, like, if their marriage allows that, like, she goes to a bar while he's at a class and then has strikes up a conversation, I think that's fine. That wasn't planned. That wasn't intentional. That wasn't, you know, deviance. That was, hey. I stroke up a conversation with somebody blah blah blah blah blah. Them trading phone numbers was too far. The trading phone numbers, I would that would be too far in my marriage. I would like I you know, I don't understand. That doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. Why do you wanna call this man again? Yes. Yeah. I give him my phone number. What if you told your significant other? Like, can I have this phone phone? Some people are really okay with this. Like, it's not a problem. And, like, and I think most, marriages would say,

look. Can my marriage sustain, like, my wife having a friendship with someone of the opposite sex? I think, yes. I yeah. I think it definitely can. I think that they're the problem tends to be is is, like, sometimes really close friendships start to mirror romantic and intimate relationships, and, like, there's certain things that we save for our most intimate relationships. And the thing that gets forgotten is is, like, when you have one hour conversations or or here and there with other people, they're getting to see you at your best. Right? Like, you're prepared to go. You don't you only tell stories where you don't look like a terrible person, but, like, your spouse

has been through has seen you at your worst and your best. They've seen both. Mhmm. And they're still there, they still love you. And, like, the people that are that are you're you're having other intimate relationships with, they're only seeing a side of you. This is how people end up cheating. It's right. Like, they like, you get in a relationship that's not your spouse, and you're like, they don't like, this doesn't come with all the weight of the last twenty years. Well, the last twenty years had a lot of you being a turd too, which you're you're forgetting about and acting like that's like that's everything's gonna be rosy on the other side, and it never turns out that way. Yeah. There's just risk in it. It's it's just like like Ben always talks about this when it comes to small church, big church. The same thing is true with relationships you're gonna keep in and out of sight of your marriage. Right? There's just risks. And, like, there's no one size fits all way to do it, but, like, I would be a lot more careful. If your marriage is as important as you think it is, then you protect it even if it seems a little bit extreme. Yeah. I definitely don't think it's wrong, though, to have, like, friends of the opposite gender as long as they're not, you know, like, more than friends, I guess. How can you tell? It's like, How can you tell when you're when all of sudden the relationship not right? You can tell like, just this is an example. My dad, whatever, has my mom's best friend's phone numbers. Right?

It's not because he is close friends with them. It's not because they are all planning something weird and creepy. It's because they need to communicate when they're picking me up from somebody's house, when they're you know, all that stuff. And that's not wrong. But I think, Mike, it is right to be cautious about that. I mean, obviously, not in this situation. But, like, in other situations, you if you have your in my is it love? If you have your best friend's your girlfriend's best friend's phone number, that might be a little suspicious, and you need to keep an eye on that and make sure it doesn't go too far. Mhmm. Also, I was just was just thinking about this. So you know how some people

in a relationship, like, say, a boy has a girlfriend and that girlfriend has a a fellow best friend. Mhmm. Wouldn't you like, if you were, like, dating for a long time, wouldn't you probably say that your boyfriend's your best friend? You can have multiple best friends. I know I know that that's really Are there people who are married that like, the wife's best friend is a dude? Yeah. I think yes. I think there are. And and for some reason, like, whatever attraction

that we would normally be worried about is not a concern with those two people. I I think that's okay. I think you you can't broad brush the whole thing. Right? But, like, if you know that you are prone like, like, dudes are are are prone to being physically attracted to other women. Women are generally tend to be prone to feeling, like, known and seen and understood, and that it's easily done by a man that's not your husband. Right? And, like, if you can find that in you can find other dudes to do that pretty easy. And so, like, you're you're equally susceptible to both things. You just have to keep an it's just a radar thing. You keep an eye out for it. You go, this is getting a territory that I don't wanna be in. I'm out. It's like having a gaydar.

Okay. Alright. We beat this one up pretty good. What was the secular advice? Oh, yeah. Sorry. Secular says, although your intentions may have been innocent for your husband to have found out the planned lunch the way he did couldn't have been worse. Had you told him you met someone nice and had been invited to lunch, it might not have been made him angry. I don't blame him for feeling he may not be able to trust you. Remind him that you did not go to that lunch. Tell him you love him and ask what you need to do to earn back that trust. Ask if he would be willing to go to counseling with you. However, if you are unable to do that, accept that your marriage is toast. Woah. Gosh. I took a hard turn. Oh, dear. Yeah. I don't think he's toast. I again, I give him some time. I he he doesn't know how to do this. He's not had this happen to him before. And so, like, it's not like there's a playbook on how he should respond. I think if if you get to the point of forgiveness, it should be complete forgiveness. He needs to not bring it up again. This doesn't need to sully the rest of your marriage. Like, you're gonna forgive cleanly like God forgives people. It's hard to do. That's why God's example But I would say, if you're trouble talking about it, I know I was saying this earlier, but like, just start writing it down. Give them a chance to sometimes my wife and I argue best over text message because it gives us a chance to like form your thoughts, to read before you react, to not, like, misjudge people's body language and language tone. Sometimes we're just not the great communicators live. And so text message gives us a chance to to actually digest things. And so

I'm not advocating for text messaging, but, like, if he won't listen to you face to face, just start writing your thoughts down. Give him a chance to read it if he wants to and start rebuilding that relationship. Also, dad, read that back again. Okay. The whole thing? I'll tell you to stop. No. Just I'll tell you when to stop. Okay. Although your intentions may have been innocent, for your husband to have found out about the planned lunch the way he did couldn't have been worse. Had you told him you met someone nice and had been invited to lunch, it might not have made him angry. Isn't that a lie? I well, see, it might not have. I don't blame him for feeling he may not be able to trust you. Remind him. Keep going. Remind him that you did not go to that lunch. Stop.

I feel like that can be taken in two ways. Remind him that you didn't go to that lunch. That can be taken as, hey. Just reminding you, I might have almost gone to that lunch, but I didn't because I love you. It can be taken like that or it can be taken as, I still love you. I didn't go to that lunch because I knew it was wrong. It can be taken in two separate ways. It just depends on how you view it. As in, it can be pompous of rich person going, I I only went to that I didn't go to that lunch because I care about you. Another point for me. Or it can be taken as, I actually really care about you. Yes, sir. And I actually love you, so I didn't go to that lunch. Second option for sure. Yeah. Handle it that way. Good. Alright. You're listening live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us today. Really do appreciate it. Let us know if you have any feedback on the show. (515) 517-0085. Call or text the live from the Path Bob Eiselauer complaint line. 'd love to hear from you, and I think we're gonna cut you loose. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.