Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. Alright. Hey. You're listening live for the bath. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper. Hey, Ben. I I appreciate that you're starting the show there, but we were having a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed. I'm sorry to have interrupted you. Start? What does the fox say? That's… He says that. I wish he didn't. Here we here we go. Here here we are going on the program this evening. First, thank you. If you're joining us live on the old, YouTube… I don't know. This tends to go poorly, but we're we're trying to do it for you. It's because I love you, some of you. And, before I get the show started, just because I don't wanna forget,

if you have been a longtime listener to the show, you have likely heard an episode or two where my daughter Emma or Mike's daughter Grace have been on. And this week, they are celebrating the release of their novel. They released a book called, 1,000 balloons. And, if you go to 1000balloons.com, you can pick that thing up. And so, there's no, no comma. So 1thousand… 1000balloons.com,

and, it's a it's a it's a great story. It's kinda it's kind of, I I think it's pretty good for all ages. Probably 12 and up. There's a few scenes that, I don't know, your seven year old may, may hit them, But, language is good. Story's super interesting and cool. Characters are awesome. They're funny. They're intriguing. And the story's kind of a kind of a steampunk ish Yeah. Romp to to figure out the great mystery of this inventing family and

and the the the real answers of what happened on the… This disaster on this this airship that they It's super cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's super neat. So, anyway, just just, you know, do do it. If you if you know them, then go pick it up. If you just like to read good books or wanna get kind of a a unique Christmas gift, you know, from somewhere that you kinda know or have heard of, you can do that, or you just wanna support the show. I might… If you watch out on Facebook, maybe I'll put out, like, a discount code, and I'll cover $2 a year book or something like that. That'd be super generous of you, Jim. That's good. Yeah. We'll see about that. Maybe I'll do that. So, anyway, just go to 1000balloons.com. You can order that thing up, and they should be still be able to get it to you for Christmas if you order it in the next, I don't know, week or so. Did did your daughter do the artwork? She did. Yeah. Yes. Are there 1,000 balloons in the book? There are not. I critiqued that cover. I said, look. I was promised a high number of balloons. I'm already feeling cheated.

Actually, the really cool thing, she spent a long time designing that cover. And as you read the book, you'll be able to go back and look at the cover, you'll notice all kinds of different stuff from the story is kind of weaved into the cover. So it's it's super cool. Anyway, 1000balloons.com. I'm super… I bought it. I'm super excited to get it so I can read it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How many pages is it? It's, 450? Yes. Yeah. I dig that. I bought another book from a friend recently, and it was only, like, 197. I felt cheated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get your money out of this. I want the real deal. It's an epic tome of a book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I bet they… I mean, not to call them out, but I bet they could've got it done in 435. I think there's probably A little fluff in there. There's a little fluff in there. Fifteen minutes of… 15 pages of fluff going on there.

Alright. Anyway, here's what I got going on the show. It's gonna be a rough one. Here's what got on the show this evening. It's gonna be a fun time today. We have a For us for them. For us for them. No. For One For All. For One For All. For us for them. We're working on the name. Don't worry about that. With, Jeremiah twenty nine eleven. I was reading through Jeremiah today and, in chapter 29 and immediately saw that, and I thought, the amount of people that I've run into that have that have quoted this recently at my face and just going, yeah. It's my life verse. It's totally for me, and I'm like, I've I've read the first 29… 28 chapters of Jeremiah and have had a lot of context to this. I don't know, friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So I testified And that is the premise of the of the game or the conversation is basically, like, is it is it a god's promise for the individual that is being dealt with in the bible? Is it God's promise for all of humanity,

or is there something that can be gleaned about God's character through the promise that he's making or the thing that he's saying? Yeah. There's a lot of possibilities in here, and so, like, we're guarding that we're taking scripture in in the context in which it sits, but also not trying to take away god's character even if a thing is not specifically true for everybody. Is god's… Can you learn something about god's character through it? So Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Okay. Know the plans I've made for you. Alright. So we'll pick that one up on For One For All. Also, if you're familiar with Kerry Newhof, he says he's a Canadian pastor in in… I don't I don't know if he's an influencer. Perhaps he fashions himself as such. Think he's sweet I thought you were going for infidel. I don't know why. I just… For some reason, it felt like you were gonna I just As you said, I was like, infidel? I just about did a Native American war cry when you said infidel. And so, culturally We are just saying it's all over the map. Over the place with this one. We can't figure out do it, though. An influencer? No. No. Absolutely not. It'd be it'd be best if you did not do that. Alright. So anyway six. He says that, 70% of peep… Is it pastors or people? Pastors. 70% of pastors believe,

that the… That God can work or the holy spirit can work through artificial intelligence. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So so we're gonna talk about that. See, I don't know. Maybe you should take that in in some way, and maybe you should not take that in in some way. You should wonder why other people are taking it in in some way. Yeah. Yeah. You should be cautious about there's 70% of dudes who are like, I'm with a cloth. Yeah. So we'll talk about Maybe god's raising up the Bereans. That's all I'm saying. Like, something something feels awful. I'm still waiting on god to speak through human intelligence at the time. I would see it's reasonable at this point. True. God's like, I'm still using the sky. We do. Because these people are untrustworthy. Got human intelligence, artificial intelligence, and spiritual intelligence? Oh. Oh. So so we're gonna we're gonna talk about that. Also, Buvi is… Buvi's gonna ask the pastor on acts chapter eight. Yes. I do. In verses 14 through 17,

it's when, they're talking about Simon the magician, and, there's a there's a baptism that's there, and then they go, but they didn't receive the holy spirit. And so Peter and John had to show up and lay hands on them to make sure that they got that bit. Mhmm. And I was like, wait a minute. Do I have to make certain of that as I'm doing baptisms nowadays? Because I I certainly don't like… I've never had the feeling where I saw a baptism, and I went, alright. Now we gotta lay hands on them because they didn't get the holy spirit yet. Uh-huh. They got the baptism in the name of Jesus. So now we've got the baptism of water, the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the spirit. Yeah. And I'm just trying to figure out what kind of pickle I'm trying to make with this. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question. Sometimes… I found that sometimes you gotta double don't because it don't take the first round. Do you feel saved? Nope. Round two. I I feel wet. Maybe we should hit them with you. You feel washed or changed entirely? Just washed. Alright. Double dose.

Okay. And then we'll have some advice on, on dear life and the path. Also, have a special guest in hanging out with us tonight is also another pastor Mhmm. Is is Gabe Clawson. So, Gabe, thank you very much for sitting in tonight. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. He's I felt very official by saying that. Yeah. What… What's the Saturday Night Live bit? Where there… Yes. Thank you for having me. I I can't help. I'm in… Sorry. It has to do with my word. We can't talk about that one. You also have a music stand with a bible and notes and everything, so you're a lot more official than any of us are. So… I just won't remember anything if I don't write it down. Well. It always is this way. You get you get… You you you put on a late night Internet radio show, and the first thing people do are like, I wanna talk about meatballs. It's our fault, really. Talking about… Actually, maybe that is the bit I was talking about. You're right. Never mind. It's only about meatballs. Yep. Okay. Alright. So let… Let's let's start with let's start with this… Is there, like, an article on this 70%? No. This one Screenshot it. You just saw it on the net somewhere. Yeah. Okay. So That's totally Mike's level of production value. There's probably an article out there. He was like, don't give a crap about this link. I just need the headline only, friend. Let's roll with this. AI generated

probably Not even a 100% certain. What was the source? He had four hands, but I don't know. Yeah. I saw it on the f b. So so 70% of pastors say that the holy spirit can work through artificial intelligence. Your reaction to… Initial reaction to that is what, Mike? That sounds about right to me, actually, that people would wanna believe that. How's… How so? Would want to believe that. Well, because I think overall, I was thinking about how

I perceive that the Holy Spirit or God in general works in my life, and it usually has to do with things that I can't control or that are above the, level of things that I understand. Yeah. Like, I think it's as as simple as wind, you know, or weather or, circumstantial meetings, like things that I could not have any control over or something that came out of someone else's mouth that I've never met that, like, this is odd. Like, god was just talking to me about this yesterday. It felt like in the scripture I was reading, and now this rando weird guy dressed as a wizard showed up and said something about you, Peter. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's that kind of stuff where I'm like, I could have… I couldn't have puppeted this to come out to be a thing. Yeah. And so it doesn't mean necessarily that god is speaking through that, but it should peak your attention a little. You go like, this is odd. If we don't do… Let's say we don't do coincidences because we know the creator of all things. And so, like, when things line up in a way, at least you should perk up and go, holy spirit, was… This feel like something coming from you? So, like, in that same vein,

AI seems to satisfy a lot of that. Like, we don't know… Most people have no idea how AI works. Right. You know exactly what… Like, even people who are are more attuned to it will be like, well, there's algorithms and probabilities put together and large language models that we're continually… And we say teach. Right? Like, we start giving it… We personify it, but it's it's not teaching. Right? Like, you're just refining Right. And and and basically funneling the way that we would say, look. Take that same answer and then color it so it looks like it's coming out of a guy from Northwest Boston or something. Right? Like, these are just sets of rules

that are still human designed. But at the end of the day, if I were to go to any AI engine and say, hey, create me a dinosaur, you know, that also has a rude dog t shirt on, and he's given the hang loose sign as he travels through LA on a skateboard. Yeah. And then it kicks it out, and you're like, wow. That… I wouldn't have thought of that in the way that it thought of it. And so, like, I put… It just feels like it it it takes a lot of the control out of me and is put in a thing that I can't make it do exactly what I would ask it to output. Very similar to the wind or circumstantial meetings or whatever. So do I think that people could ask ChatGPT, ask Google whatever, or the Meta AI, or whatever, however they're interacting with an artificial intelligence and go, yes. Do I believe that God

could use this answer in a way to speak to me? And I thought, find this both dangerous when dis… When disconnected from his word. Yeah. I also find it a possibility,

that if… Let's say that it's not me. Let's say that it's a teenage kid who has a… Has had zero parenting growing up or grew up in a disconnected household, and he finds most of his interaction through an AI. Do I feel like god could get his attention through something like that? Yeah. I I think that I do probably believe that. You know what I'm saying? But, like, there's just a lot of ifs in there. And so the fact, like, I just was scrolling through something and, like, this dude shows up. What was his name? Kerry Kerry Duhoff. Duhoff. Yeah. I don't I don't know this man. Apparently, he's a big deal in circles that Ben and Dan travel in. But either way, he claims that 70%

of pastors believe that God can speak through AI, and I thought, I think it's more nuanced than that. Well, I'm… Oh, go ahead. No. You know, you go ahead, Dan. I was saying, god god can speak through a donkey. So… Right. Right. Does he go do it every day, though? No. Yeah. So Is it normal? Yeah. So so that… That's what I was gonna say is, like, what if you… I'm surprised the answer isn't a 100%. Because if I said, hey. Can can… Is god restrained to the extent that he cannot work through artificial intelligence? You would say no, which means the implication would be a 100% I mean, should say yes. God could work through this. Right. And so now that now that we've settled the extremes, now the right question is, how do I understand this responsibly? Sure. And and it's not… It's fundamentally… I don't know I don't know that it's a that it's a different question than is God speaking to me through the breeze? Is God speaking to me to this person I met at the store? Right. Like, these are all possibilities.

And so it goes back to a fundamental question is is how do I recognize God's voice? How do I filter through the things I hear and see and tell whether it's either my voice, God's voice, or somebody… Some other voice trying to to instruct me Mhmm. Of which artificial intelligence, I I think is unique in that… Mike, I think this… If I rolled up what you were saying, I think the the unique thing here is that in the presence of mystery, we put God,

which in some ways is a faithfulness thing. I think that's actually kind of good. We've lost a bit of our sense of mystery, and so recognizing that when there are things beyond our understanding, does god… Can god feel that? Or is that where god often resides? I think that can can be true. The danger, however, is this isn't actually a mystery in that we don't know all the machinations that are going on in there. It's it's… To to your point, it's informed mystery.

It's influenced by intake that isn't God's influence. It's a bunch of human thought that's been compiled and pushed. Yeah. And so that's not the same thing. And if we lack discernment in that area, we can mistake what is awe inspiring God's mystery with human mystery. Like, I don't understand how it works, so the Lord must have been in it. And that's super risky. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I don't… We have the living holy spirit of God inside of us. I don't trust most pastors to listen to him. Right. You know? I mean, because we're all busy. We're all scheduled. We got all this stuff going on. We threw a sermon out. And and… Yeah. So that there's… To rely on

AI or sitting on a pic… Picnic bench to hear the wind go through, you know, oh, I got this… I got an idea. You know? I mean, I'd rather just… How about you pray and study Mhmm. You know, and and and and see what… Where God's leading you, and and that's much more reliable than than, you know, hoping that God's gonna speak through all the filters and all the parameters and boundaries that have been set up in this AI before the answer gets to you that God, you know, ignored all that and still spoke to you. I mean, that… Can he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds pretty miraculous. We just we just did on thanks giving. We go through we go through our sticks and stones, which is a reminder. The stones are kinda big things where someone in our family has experienced something where we said, like, god god was faithful here. And so we've got a series of of stones, and that we we kinda retell the story as a family. And then there's the there's the sticks. They're like popsicle sticks, and these are things that are happening more often. And so, like, they're they're things like I was, you know, I was praying on something, and it felt to me that God answered this prayer. More so than just like, oh, I wanted something to happen and it happened. Thank you God for interacting. Like, it was something that felt different. And my wife my wife just killed all of us. Like, me and the kids, we're not great at remembering these things. My wife has got, like, a giant stack. But a good section of hers

were she had been praying on something, reading something, listening to something, and the same idea coalesces at a single moment, and it happens enough and tends to be precise

in something that she believes she's supposed to be focusing on, that she's like, this is… These things don't just match up. Like, I'm way… She's always way behind on any given thing, so it's not like they could have been lined up. And so she's got a good… I know she probably had 10 over the last year that she'd gone back through her prayer journaling ago. Felt It like God was bringing something specific to my attention. Okay? So those are the sticks. And so can can and does God work through things like that? Yeah. I believe he can. Like, someone who's seeking his seeking his direction, like, yes, gets it from his word. But, like, there's a… But you can get a million things from his word. But does he use people and situations Mhmm. And those things to come together to to refine this is what I'm speaking with you, and you know it because you're listening? Yes. I I I do I do totally believe that. So it can it can happen in everyday things. But that is not the same thing as, like, getting the old god's voice binoculars out and, like, leaving the house for four hours and beating bushes and opening, you know, doorknobs and mailboxes and stuff. Like, it's a willingness to say, god, if you're going to speak, know that I'm listening Mhmm. Versus trying to prescribe to god. Yep. I… Although, I've actually seen that happen also

where god has done that, but, like, it's kind of a… It's kind of the same way to digest some of the miracles and God interactions in the Bible. Like, how many of these things are things that were… Are telling us about the character and faithfulness of God versus prescribing to us that God also will send a donkey? Like, not the same. In fact, most of don't even own a donkey, and so at least at least, you know, he had a donkey. He started riding the donkey. It wasn't like he just happened to be near a donkey, and god's like, alright. It's time. Actually, he told him to go steal a donkey. Right. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Sometimes my Tundra speaks to me. Door is ajar. I need fuel, Dan. Ding. What's got me in So my actually, Gabe and I were just talking about this on the drive in, and like we were talking about, like a lot of the missteps that come out of

folks in general just taking guesses on what god wants, right? Apart from generalized, that's the thing is most normally, it's not to the point where you're like, god, I'm obeying every single thing that you have in your word. What next? You know, they're like, I'm doing the best I can on the things in your word, but what awesome thing am I to be involved with now? And if you don't say anything, we're gonna put up an LED sign out front of the church that's gonna have a super cartoon characters on it, and that's what we think is gonna be cool. And you're like, well, I mean, maybe. Maybe that's what God is asking you to do. But like a lot of this, like the AI question kinda gets bundled in like in a lot of other things to me that's like, when when what was that great line from the American president? It's like when they when when people can't find any find any water, they start to drink the sand. Right? Because they don't know the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so literally like they're they're they're just guessing on what church history has done, what the community they're in has always done, and they stopped asking god on what direction he wanted a thing to go and then it gets so far away from understanding what his voice sounds like and what he's actually calling them to do that they just start guessing.

You know, like, we should get involved with Operation Christmas Child because all the churches do that. And you're like, maybe you should. Maybe you should ask him. Yeah. Because maybe you shouldn't. Yeah. Maybe those kids live in your place right now, and you should be doing that. Yeah. That's what was gonna say. Why I said earlier, like, I don't trust pastors with this. Is that we tend to… Because I am on it. I know this. I know it. You have to fight it. We tend to take the idea of of of the, you know, oh, we're gonna do the Christmas boxes. You know why? Because I saw some church doing this all video. It was really cool, and there was a tear, and it's like, yeah. God's leading us to do this. So now the spirit's leading you, you'll find some verses to back it up, and and then you push your agenda. That was your idea. It's not a bad idea. Yeah. But is it really… Is it, you know, God? Maybe. Maybe. But usually, it is is some dude went to a conference or read a book or talked to a friend or a buddy who's on a, you know, social media group that someone shared an idea, and those are all good, but then we we we we say, well, it's God saying it, and it's like, just be honest. It's like, hey. I got this idea. Let's try it. You know? Yeah. But it's like, AI has told me this through… Jesus is speaking to me. It's like… It's okay to say that god gave many directions to take care of widows and orphans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, just do something. It's it's very understandable to go to your bible and go, this seems to be a big deal at all times, and so we're just gonna do that. Right. I I think that's the right point is that the the problem… The risk there is is that now you're talking about ideas that are not submitted for refinement. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Iron can't sharpen iron. If Jesus provided the iron, don't you dare try to sharpen his sword. Right? That would be goofy. So, like, you represent… If it sounds like, well, God told me to do a thing, then there's no matter of someone else going, look. I prayed on that, and I just don't… You know, sniff right, and I'm having trouble lining it with… This is where people, like, will go outside the boundaries of what scripture told us is his character and goodness because they'll go, yeah, but Jesus,

like, spoke to me. And, like, it is one of the great concerns for me pastorally is either side of that particular coin. Yeah. Is the presence of people who are confusing emotion, their own intention. Right. Not not with any mustache twisting, but, like, they just… They so want to be on board with things God is doing that they will hear and do things that are… They're not… Do not align with God's character and goodness. They don't know enough to be discerning about it. They've not prayed with other people to do it. Mhmm. But at the risk of that, people completely shutting off as if the Holy Spirit is not active and working in our lives today, And so they say, if the Bible does not tell me explicitly to do it, I do not do it. Or like they do not trust that God worked through bringing three things together with my wife in her study, or that I had a… Just before we started the house church, it felt like there was a very clear… It happened once in my life where it felt like I got a very clear answer about something from God. Got one rock in the pile, and that's it. And, like, you know… But I do think those things are true. And so without… Don't shut that off because the spirit is active and awesome. But but we we have to be discerning about how we understand god's voice. And pastorally,

like, that is the biggest… That is the thing that I'm the most cautious of on either extreme. And I think, we have a lot… We we do have a hard time with it. Well, I I think part of the problem too is I I love the Bereans. Like, when they first heard the message, they, trusted it, but they're like, let me verify first. Mhmm. And I think the problem with a lot of these people taking answers from God from AI is often, you know, first off, they got to that point by searching something anyway, so they're already searching for an answer. They might hear something that sounds godly and think, yes, that's good.

But like you're saying, they're not verifying it with scripture at all. They're not backing it up. And like, it's like, just… Also because something's from scripture quoted doesn't always mean that it's from Jesus for us either. Like, I… Right. You know those calendars that, like, you tear off a page each day and it has a motivational thing? I don't know if you guys seen this before, but there's there's one of them that… I had to look it up just because I thought I remembered it and it was real, and it wasn't just my mind. But it was like a July 3, and it was Luke four seven. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

King James version. And you know, that's that was for the day and it looks beautiful like on that picture. That's Satan quoting to Jesus. And so it's like, yeah, that looks comfortable, but like it's… You know, context is really important and… Oh, that's what I'm doing. So like if you're just looking at AI… Yeah. Gonna put that calendar together. Yeah. Right. If you're just looking at it for something to make you feel good, then, I mean, you can look at anything to get a message from God for that. But I mean… But beyond that, you know, we talked about God could speak through a donkey or a rock. And the sad thing, I think, sometimes is we think of that as,

like, lower than AI. We're, like, that's still real intelligence, and, like, that's still a beautiful design. And, like, AI is even less than that. Like, AI is, like, our design of intelligence. And God's, like, well, yeah, of course, I could speak through that. Like, I can speak through you. You know what I mean? I can speak through all this. But but it's like, why not just go to the source where I wrote it out for you, you know, and and I don't I don't know. I I was was really convicted once because I read a it was an AI generated message about why AI should not write sermons. Yeah. Oh, awesome. And it was really good. And I was like, I'm completely convicted. Don't trust me. Made some valid points against yourself.

You really did, and I'm like, I don't know what what to believe now. But I think all of it's about verifying, you know, trusting and praying regardless. So, yeah, of course, God could. But, I mean, I don't know. Why? When you just… I mean… Yeah. Yeah. I see stuff all the time that's that's very

obviously, like, AI generated content creation Mhmm. For people that are trying to get as many clicks as possible Mhmm. Without any legitimate work. And it's like these weird, like, the top 10 reasons that you need to understand why God actually hates you. It's like, what is going on right now? Then I see hundreds of comments under this situation of like, yeah, totally. I totally understand why this is a thing. We should hate ourselves in this situation, and this is exactly why this is it. And that's one of thousands of these things get kicked out every hour of every day. Yeah. And it's… I I I have people in my life that bring this stuff to me, and they're like, but what do you think about this? And I'm like, if you're about to bring me some YouTube short or some Facebook reel that is the the reason that you wanna talk about the… This part of the scripture, like, we should take a step back and go, but did you look at that scripture? And they go, oh, no. I just took what that guy said or what this lion was speaking as a cartoon. And I'm like, alright. If you are watching Mufasa say stuff that you remember was not in the Lion King, you should automatically know that that's not right. Like, this is not good stuff. That's right. Yeah. It's like the question that pastors read AI sermons or pastors believe people should? The question was I forgot already. 77% of pastors believe god can speak through AI and that was the… It was it was for Newhof to… New author, whatever his name is, to to, like, hey. Let's have a four part, you know, get together on how the church should look at AI or how, you know, that you should be using AI or… In your congregation or whatever. Yeah. I I I think there's a lot of value just societally on having a good concept of what we're dealing with here. Yes. What its limitations are, why it behaves the way it does. I I mean, I… I'll be honest. I use it. I use it all the time. I even use it in my… Like, a lot of times,

especially… I… I've not been super happy with, I was… I'm teaching through first Samuel, and I was not happy with the commentaries I was getting. Like, it's not going, some of the depth that you can get in, like, the gospels and acts just doesn't exist when you're trying to get into some of those, Old Testament books. And so I I used it, not not for facts, but, like, hey. I'm looking for some commentary resources. It's the kind of thing I'm after. What do you got? And then… But it gave me, like, 15, and then I wouldn't go… I wouldn't check them out. And then I'm reading them, and I'm reading reviews on them. And so, like, I I use it as a… All the time on a spot check, on either, like, straight fact information, things that that should not be. Yeah, and… But but, like, also, every time I type something in, it said, like, please provide your sources. Okay. Go check them out. And then either validate something, and I feel good about it, or it doesn't.

So, actually, I find it… I've… At times, I find it very, very useful. Actually prepared a wedding the same way. So I didn't have to write all the transitions. Like, I'm like, I don't know. What are the traditional transitions? Just tell me what they are, I'll work… I'm good. That's genius. I I wrote the message, the unique message to them, and then all the other stuff. Sure. Just selected. But, anyway, I… Like, there's a way to use it well. I don't think there's any reason to act like a god can't do what he wants with AI or anything else, but I think there… It is totally right to recognize there is a unique caution to it because of… And this is the same reason to caution either nonreligiously

is because of how it it speaks. Like, it it represents itself as as being confident. If you ask it to respond to you in a personal way, it will. It'll talk to you. Talk to me like you are God. It'll it'll do it. And so, like, you can ease it. Like, if you want to be manipulated, and I'll be honest, a lot of people would prefer to be manipulated. Mhmm. Like, they know it. They're walking into it. And so, like, that is that is the risk, is that it doesn't tell on itself unless you ask it to. I I think a caution is part of our culture, which has always been this way, but but we we really… I mean, we really get into spiritually sounding things

Yeah. And we we credit that what must be good. Yeah. Our family went and saw Mulan this past week, second, the Mulan two, whatever it is, because we have a four year old grandson as well. Everybody's all there watching the movie, and I just went for the popcorn. But anyway, I'm I'm looking at this theater full of kids, and and it is… It's it's it's good little flick and everything. It's cool, nice animation, good music, all that stuff. But there was a… There was one point I wish I could remember specifically, but it was… I just I just… I got this feel like, man, if if these four year olds take the message of this music ten years down the line, it's basically telling them all to leave their families and reject them. I mean, that… There's no… It wasn't overtly saying that, know. Yeah. So I just spent the next ten minutes just praying for not only kids in that theater, anybody who watches that movie. You you know, the the the… Like, when I was a kid, you know, I just watched the thing. I didn't get to a deeper meeting. You know? And I I just prayed that that would happen. You know? And so I brought it up to my my family after. So did you catch that? Did you… Do know what I'm talking about? They're like, have no no idea what you're talking about. I said, okay. I I get it. I said, good. Well, maybe my prayer worked then because… But,

know, I'm just saying that the the the AI can sound so spiritual and so good and so wholesome and and be like, well, it has to be from god. Just feels like god. It's like, but it's not… I mean, it could be, but might not be. Verify, verify, like you said, you gotta verify. Yeah. I think it is one of the great fallibilities in a lot of both liberal political and liberal theological thought, is that removes the belief in evil

and deceit. It has a it has a high trust that people are acting in good intent, and there's no historical nor theological basis to believe that. Mhmm. And people… Like, if you're being honest, you can see it in your… In yourself. It takes effort to act on someone else's behalf, not default to your own. Honest people recognize that. That is the risk, is the belief that there is not attempts to deceive. And again, I think this is where we're

being a little bit more… We have to be more nuanced because I think we've allowed deceit to be only pointy tailed devil deceit. Whereas, like, deceit can just be wrongness, whether it's whether it's intentionally perpetrated, whether it was intent… Like, someone believed it was good or not. Mhmm. You know? Like, I I did this… I thought this would be… Here's this desk calendar. I thought it would be valuable to you. Okay. It's deceiving one way or the other. Know?

And so I, like, I think that is the thing. Well, if your heart was in the right place, then it must be okay. Like, it it doesn't actually work that way. Like Right. Mhmm. Falsity is still falsity. Lies are still lies. Deceit is still deceit even if your heart was in the right place. Let's acknowledge those two things can be separate. Mhmm. Your heart can be in the right place, and you're still a perpetuator of deceit. And so can we call that out? But what… Because we lump them together, we go, well, it can't be that bad because they were well intentioned. That's not true. And then… And unless we can… Unless we're more nuanced than that, we accept a lot of kind of wrong at its… At the least, nefarious at the worst of things without being willing to call time out. Yeah. So anyway, stay out of that AI. Yeah. Or use it all the time like I do. Or do it like Ben. Or if you want a good laugh, look up AI

generated… What what is it? The version of Bible. I have three teenagers and there's a gen z version that's AI generated. That's hilarious. Oh, no. Oh, it's so funny. Read Luke about the account of her talking to Gabriel and they're like Moses. Yeah. There's just… It's hilarious. That's sigma and scuba dee. It's like, right on. It's so funny. The things that Gabriel says, it's just… Gabriel's really with the times. He he isn't. It's… Yeah. It's obviously not… Doesn't match the Greek, but it's hilarious. I totally forgot. Buuva and I did an episode of AI Bible Theater. We did do that. You guys were gone. Yes. Oh. Isn't that funny stuff? Yeah. It was great. Like, what did we do story wise? Was it Lamech? No. No. It was Balaam's donkey. We did advice. We got advice from Lamech. Oh, that's right.

But, no, we we we did the story of Balaam's donkey, and it was just it was just Buva and I, and we said to write a two person play. Forgot about that. Okay. Well We gotta do that again. Have to bring it back at some point. Alright. That that conversation actually took longer than I imagined. Yeah. Buva. We're gonna have to. I spoke, like, once. Yeah. Ben.

Newhof. Alright. You're listening to life from the path. Let's do… Let's let's talk about this, for, for one for all. Jeremiah twenty nine eleven. Oh, yeah. Who's got that up? Gabe, you got that up? I sure do. Just that verse? Yeah. We're just gonna read it. For I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. It's the… In a s b seventy seven. Yeah. Good. '77. The old version. Mhmm. That's about

when Israel came came to That's right. '88. Yeah. BC seventy seven. Yeah. 1977. Okay. Yeah. So so the the top question is when we when we listen to this verse, should we should we believe that… Is this for one for a one… Either one person or one people at the time that's written, and that's the the only audience, or is it for everybody? And, depending on that answer, the question is is, like, are there any context or barriers of which we might, refine

the answer? Because this is a pretty common one. Like, this is a T shirt. This is a bumper sticker. This one… Yeah. They take it for everybody all the time. I get I get this yelled at me. Like, straight up, like, this is people's life verse. Yeah. They're like, yeah. This is that and no weapon formed against you shall stand is is a fun one. But I can do all things with Christ who strengthens four thirteen. That's right. Like, take a car radio out of your car. I can do all things with Christ who strengthens me. And then they bench press. I'm like, oh, that's rough living. Yeah. So I was actually in Jeremiah 29 today, and it hit me that that that was the bit. And so my… This is just not my life verse at all so much so that I forgot it was even coming up. And so, like, as I read over it, I was like, oh, yeah. That's the one that everyone puts on a T shirt and a bumper sticker, and I immediately texted Mike. I was like, we gotta do this one, man. Uh-huh. And, like, the the unique context here is, like, this is the situation where where god is speaking to the prophet Jeremiah about, the exiles into

into Babylon and saying that, like, after seventy years, you will be brought back. Like, go and and form, like, relationships, like, pray for Babylon, and and go and build build your homes and and be fruitful and multiply it, that kind of stuff. But realize that I will bring you back for I know the plans that I have for you and that kind of stuff, right, for

your shalom, your peace, all of that. The specific context is to that group. It's the Israelites in exile that he's talking to. I don't have a problem with people going, does God have an individual plan for everyone? Yeah. Yeah. I think they're all a part of his plan. Absolutely. I don't have any problems with I don't have any issue with the with the fact that, like, people can grab ahold of this and go, like, I I I serve

and am loved by a a personal loving God, and I think that's incredible. I I don't know if this needs to be your life verse that says that, like, everything that you do is is definitely within god's plan because of, like, the way that you did it or all that kind of stuff. Like, I just think people stretch this too far or or make it so that they can do whatever they wanna do, very obviously not falling into a relationship where they are in servitude to a god that has planned for them. Rather, they are just like, well, you're my genie and have things for me all the time, and I know you've got plans for me. I'm gonna go start that business that I probably shouldn't now. Here here… Here's the mental exercise I go through on verses like this,

is is Peter, he has a a t shirt printing company in Jerusalem. Yep. And Stephen comes up and wants to buy a shirt, and he says, here's here's here's the shirt for you, and it has this verse on it. And then when he goes out and he gets stoned that day, is he looking down at his shirt saying, man, I'm feeling cheated, or is he looking up to heaven saying, okay. It's it's alright. I'm going to see… Wanna see god. Right. And and I think this particular verse, he'd feel cheated. Yeah. Sure. Are you following me? You look very confused. I had to process it for a second to be honest with you. It's so deep. You might have to process it for something. I was like, I don't know about this Jerusalem T shirt deal. T shirt. I got great plans for you. Style. You're gonna go to heaven. So it's a good it's a good, so so the right… One of the right first steps

is, again, is this is this in… Even individual? Ignore whether it's for you. Let's just talk… Or is it talking to a… Even at… In context, is it talking to an individual or to a people? To a people. Right. Because certainly, no Stephen had to exist in Jeremiah's day. Somebody in the exile got it harsh. Yes. They got it harsh on the travel back. They didn't make it back. They had a heart attack once they heard the prophecy. Like, there's all kinds of things of which, like, to any individual person, it's the wrong way to to take it in. Mhmm. And so it is to a people, and it's a it's a… It's it's God reaffirming his commitment

and restoration to his relationship to this group of people because of what they're likely feeling for having been exiled. It's the same… It it has some parallels to when the when the Israelites lost to the Philistines in the start of first Samuel. Mhmm. And they're like, hey, man. What happened? Why did Yahweh defeat us? Even though it was the Philistines that did it, because they're recognizing that, like, God obviously could have stopped this. You know? And then God allows the ark of the covenant to be taken. And so, like, there's a point of which it needs a restoration. Like, Peter needs a restoration from Jesus. It needs to be able to say, look. I'm… You know… Now know the difference here, and I'm gonna tell you that I'm I'm not giving up on you. I will be your god. You will be my people. And so

it… To to extrapolate that even in its own context to be like it's an individual promise would be a misuse of it, and, like, the thing that Jeremiah's trying to actually get across. And so to use it then as a justification for something, especially when it comes… Like, you've twisted it for your own enterprise. Like, wrong, obviously. It's obviously wrong. But to your point, though, is, like, I I usually… I'm usually real real harsh on this kind of thing. But as you were saying it, I'm like, I don't know. In general, does god… You know, has he designed a life of which I am set to prosper? Well, it depends how I measure prosperity. Sure. Right. If I measure it the way he measures it, yeah. Exactly. Yes. Mhmm. I measure it how I measure it, probably not. Right. Right. And so… Yeah. Okay. Good. Does he have plans for me? I think the room would probably at least parse out on, like, how far these individual plans go. Sure. I think Dan and I are are the more loosey goosey side,

of this particular equation. But, like, is it…… Puts me and Boova and Gabe on the other side? I don't know. I'm just saying… How dare you, sir? I know. How dare you speak on my behalf? I mean, I like him so far. I'm alright with being there. I know Dan and I are probably… Are more open handed on this… The lord knows the plans that he has for me to prosper me. He he You act like he doesn't. He knitted me together in my mother's womb. Yeah. Yeah. How dare you? I have that on a coffee cup. I have this. I had this knitted so that I can remember it twice. I have it written on my elbow. But, like, does he have plans for my life? Well, I mean, yeah. I think he does. Certainly. But he's got the… His… The plans for his people are all the same basic plan. And then does he interact in individual ways? Yes. I think he does. It's not like he looks down at Buva one day and goes, no kidding. Boy, that guy just pulls off some crazy stuff. I was not expecting that. Jacob, you see it? A Santa hat this early in December? We don't even need to sell them to don't get it. Jacob. So

so anyway, like, I don't I don't mind it, I think. But you… It it it retains for it to be applicable to you today. Like, one, should remind you of God's character and faithfulness. Two, if you wanna use it personally, you can. But, I mean, it's gotta have some significant significant binders on it. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it's fascinating that that just prior… The verses prior that you just read are are… It's talking about our prior conversation. Like, don't don't listen to the false prophet. Just don't believe him. Like, just come on. Here… Here's what I got for you. He flat out killed the dude the chapter before. Like, Shemaniah was just like, alright. Jeremiah's like, hey, man. You're gonna keep preaching that, like, the the pieces of the ark of the covenant or the the the sacred treasures are gonna come back, and it's gonna be, like, a short exile into to Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar's

gonna fall. Like, you're wrong, and, also, you're gonna die pretty soon. And it's like… And then at the end of that chapter, it's like, and then in the eighth month of the year, Shemaiah of this area fell down and died. And it's like, I mean, called it. Seems to be a situation. Like It got him. It's a pretty rough time. And, like, the next chapter, there's more false prophets, and god says through Jeremiah, he's like… And then they will say, oh, cursed are you like these two other false prophets. Like, their lives are about to be so rough that they're about to be a cultural curse as a namesake in that situation. It's like Yeah. Actually be real rough for you. This day. Yes. Right. And we still look at him like, oh. Oh. I can't pronounce his name, but I don't wanna be him. Don't don't bring that man up to me. Right. That's probably the right way to do is, like… Oh, I tell you I tell you what, dude. I'll give you Jeremiah 2911 if you take the rest of Jeremiah's Yes. Right. Exactly. Get to go shopping. This stuff went bad. All the other curses and stuff, if you accept those as belonging to you as well, then deal. Jeremiah

30 is when it switches to be anything kind of, like, alright and good for Israel. Like, the first 29 chapters have been rough for Israel. That… The fact that, like, they the lord says, you hoard after this, like, seven times in a row in one That one's harsh, doesn't It's like, oh, no. It feels like he heavy accents the h two. You hoard. Right. That's right. At one point in time, he tells Jeremiah to go soil his loin cloth off in the rocks. He's like, just throw it there and leave it for a couple days. And then when you come back, it's gonna be bad. That is what Israel's gonna look like and what they would be without me. And it's like, oh, crap, man. This is going really rough for Israel. That's true. Jeremiah's like, that paints a terrible picture. God's like, I ain't painting no picture. I'm sure. Right. Go do it. You paint it. Yes. He's like, I told you to do this stuff. Go do it. Like, one way that I like… Like, so I'm with you. Like, I think way too often in scripture, people twist the verses and, like, you know Sure. They change everything. But one one way I love to read the Old Testament specifically is I I always go back to John one when it talks about, you know, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. And I… So anytime I read the Old Testament, I'm trying to find Jesus in the word or or pointing to Jesus. And I think of… Maybe this is how people twist it, so if it is, I'm painting the picture. But I'm thinking that know, these people were exiles and God was speaking to them about the… Their future that would have been hopeful, that would have been joyful, you know Sure. Safe.

And then I think of first Peter two eleven where Peter says, you know, beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles, then, you know, to abstain from all the bad things that… The same thing Jeremiah is saying. But it's almost like we don't consider ourself exiles now. Like, they were looking forward to a city, whereas we're looking forward to, you know, the kingdom of God being fulfilled through Jesus returning. And, like, that… That's how I think we can reflect on this verse is

if if all the promises of God are yes through Jesus, then we know that even this is still yes for us in the sense that, you know, the plans that that he has for us have already been purchased on the cross through Jesus. And so in a sense, we can look at this promise as a reminder through Jesus that we are exiles now. We are… Even though we pray, you know, your kingdom come here,

and we are still in his kingdom, we are still in sin, surrounded by sin in a broken world, and we are hoping and praying for this promise to be fulfilled in our future paradise with Jesus, I guess. Yeah. And so that that's one way I can take this verse as Jesus fulfilling this promise,

not just in a city form, but in the true prophetic form of what we all crave, was that true peace, safety within his walls of his arms, you know. Yeah. And I… So I see where you're going with that, and I think the the the the landing zone that from AI by the… No. Just kidding. Like, the landing zone is right. I I agree that all of those pieces are are are correct from the perspective of, like, the the hope that we have in in the restored creation with walking in paradise with our father, you know, all the different stuff, but I run to

a caution on that only because within that specific scripture we've got, it's not just like an exile being brought back to Jerusalem in that situation. Like, they're they're looking forward to the the greater promise that is the the line of of David that will become, you know, the the the king that will be the Messiah, all that different stuff. But, like, he's also saying to them that, like, because of what you did, like, I brought Nebuchadnezzar against you. Like, I was the one who used my servant Nebuchadnezzar against you. And then, also, it is not the end. Mhmm. I will bring you back. I

I don't know if I would draw the same conclusion with the with the exile piece, to be totally honest, but I I do understand where you're at, like, landing, and I agree with the landing. I just caution because I do think that that you look at that and have the right context in a lot of that that doesn't steer you in the wrong direction, but I think that you're absolutely right from the perspective of like people will grab ahold of that and then start grabbing pieces and grab one word for exile here, and then see that word here, and then grab it here, and then end up totally in the wrong place with this kind of thing, and then it changes a lot of what God might have actually been saying through that, and then how their relationship to their God is supposed to look. And so not to be in any way attempting to be critical against you, I just think that without the the

the grounding that you have, I totally see the the the worry for me, for other people who might draw that kinda same thing is is probably where I would You can apply it to… Like, if I have I have plans to prosper you, like… And basically saying, have I have ideas for good things for you. Right? That is true for most of the Gentiles because Paul was out getting his butt whooped Mhmm. And living in jail. Right? So, like Right. Like like, there are… God works through a lot of things, and, like, I think that's basically what we're saying is, like, he gets to define what prosper you means. That's right. Gets to define what hope for you means, and he gets to just say, like, when he says, I have plans and hope and prosper, like, these are all the things I have in mind for you. You… I think when you start making assumptions on what that journey looks like,

you're now operating at the at above your pay grade. Well, and specifically within that scripture, also see that God through Jeremiah is saying, you're not going to prosper once you get back from exile. You're going to prosper in your exile. You are to go and pray for the prosperity of Babylon. You are to go and and lay down roots and build homes and Right. And build families and stuff. Like, it's not like a, hey. Look forward to a plan that I have for you that I'm going to fulfill in seventy years. It is, oh no, where you're going is where I'm sending you right now, so do exactly what I would expect you to do here in Jerusalem in Babylon. Yeah, because like, and this is why mercy and grace are so amazing, right, is because God created a world that works on justice, right, where there's reactions to things. And so almost always,

if there is a good, there is a price, or there is a evil that has to be squashed. You know what I'm saying? Like, obviously, our salvation hinges directly on this, that, like, we were owed a thing and there was a punishment or a payment that needed to be made. And so, like, almost all these things are true for for for the gospel to reach me and my Gentile folk. Someone had to go out and talk to Gentiles and was hated because of it because he should have stuck in it with his own people. There's a cause and effect to all this stuff. Where a prosperity and a goodness and a hope comes to me, that doesn't come without Paul getting his his butt whooped in 18 cities and dying like eight times. You know I'm saying? And so like, it just depends on do you trust God to define

what that journey looks like and what hope for you actually looks like? Because it looks way different in America right now than it does in Pakistan at the slave brickyard. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If I have a hope for you means you're just not gonna die today. Yep. Well, I think you hit the nail on the head by talking about trust because that's how Yeah. What brought them to this situation Mhmm. Was not trusting God. Absolutely. When this verse is twisted, it's usually by us saying, okay. Well, he has a plan for us. Let me figure out what that plan is. Yes. He's gonna prosper me. That means I'm gonna get the job. That means I'm gonna get the house. It's like we were on the drive over here. We were talking about Ezekiel. Uh-huh. And if God would have told Ezekiel ahead of time, I have a plan to prosper you, to, you know… It involves eating food off fake poop. Know? It's gonna go real rough, real quick. Can you… I mean, I think you would have been even more disappointed if you would have heard that and went, okay. I'm gonna get this and that. Yeah. It's like, no. That's… My plan is bigger than yours because the answer that it will achieve is bigger than yours. And

it's like, you know, if we can look at this verse today, and usually if when we read it to have plans or prosper Sure. And it affects us and not others, that's regardless probably a bad interpretation. Yeah. And I mean, anyway, it can be twisted, but still it's like we have to trust God with the plans, with the prospering, and be okay when it's not what we intended or wanted. You think think about the the contemporaries who who heard this, people like say Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Daniel. God's gonna prosper us, and there they are in Babylon

and told, you're gonna… Here's the food. And they could have said, well, we… We've we've just been prospered. We have those being prospers. Royal buffet of all kinds of things the law says you can't eat. Mhmm. And they they didn't say, god said we get to prosper. Bacon, baby. Right. Exactly. Said, can we just have veggies? You know? I mean, they they they kept with the law. And and then the statue's built. Like, that's not looking prosperous. Just like, they just threw me in a a freaking furnace. Yeah. They're still in that covenant. I mean, so there was obedience in there. And, no, I mean, those those people it was written to. Yes. You know? And and then you look at the end, it's like, well, yeah, Daniel did alright. You know? You know? I mean, he did prosper and because they were obedient. I wonder how many weren't that that didn't. Yeah. Which I think rolls up to the fact that like prosperity

is a result of faithfulness. Yes. And faithfulness will otherwise constrain that you don't misunderstand prosperity. Yeah. Yeah. Because this person who's who's otherwise prospering, because they're walking faithful with God, is also not mistaking the world's prosperity for the thing that that Jesus is offering. And so, like, if you're if you're holding on to this verse for for what you believe is worldly gain, especially as… Almost the thing we were just talking about earlier was the justification that I heard it from God, and God's gonna give me the thing and do this thing so that it can't be countered with, hey. Maybe you shouldn't behave this way. It's just flat out wrong. That's that's that's heretical. You should knock it off. But I… If you need some affirmation that God is for you, there's a lot of places you can do that. Like like, he he he wants to be your God. You are to be his people. He obviously sacrifices and dies for you. Like, you mean a whole world to him and more. And so, yeah, you can feel confident in that. But like, at the end of the day, if it crosses into the territory where it's it's,

kinda arbitrarily guiding of the things that you're trying to accomplish in life, if you can't seem to remember that the gifts of the kingdom often come through the work of the kingdom, you're gonna miss this anyway. You're gonna screw it up. And so, but like the places where, like, when we want peace that passes all understanding, it doesn't just tend to come because we're sitting. You you tend to find peace in places where peace doesn't belong because you're in places where peace doesn't belong. Yes. And oddly, you feel peaceful about it. Yeah. The most anxious people I know are people who actually aren't involved in all that month because they're so worried about it. And, like, I know this personally. It's not a knock on anxiousness. I have it. But like, the the way I rectify it is to go be part of the thing that's making me nervous. And I find that that oftentimes if I can kick the thing off, if I can just start talking or start serving or start doing something like that, the thing I was nervous about will shift to peace. But the longer I'm on the peripheral about it, worrying about it, wringing my hands, anxious about what's gonna happen, who's gonna say something about it, I get real nervous. And I get… It's not that easy. I know for some people that are struggling with this, but like, I'm not sure it's always that hard either. And so, a lot of times the gifts of the kingdom come through the action, work, and faithfulness of the kingdom. And so don't try to twist verses to try to take that away from good works that God has created for us to walk in. Right. If that verse is offering either prosperity or calamity,

the calamity that I see a lot of people in is the fact that they grab ahold of this then go, okay. God is going to get me through my hard times to a point where I no longer need him, and that is what I believe prosperity to be. Yeah. And in the exact opposite is the That's calamity. That's right. 100%. Alright. You're listening live from The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far. Look. Look. Maybe you you wanna give us some feedback on the program. You love that verse? You already got it tattooed on your leg? Oh, no. I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you have the Joel Osteen bible. That's right. It's only thing that is tattooed. So, anyway, you can, you can get get ahold of us on the Life From The Path, Bob Eisenhower complaint line. That's (515) 517-0085. Call or text, (515) 517-0085. We'd love to hear from you. Give us some feedback on this

AI problem. And and maybe you have a question about, hey. I… I'm reading a verse or a section, and is that for all or for One for all. All. One for all. You can hit us up on that. And you and me. Yeah. Okay. No matter how they toss in the circle. Nice. I knew if I tossed it to the old alley, you gave it slam it. That's right.

Pick it up, Hakim. Speaking of turtles. Okay. Let's… We got an ask the pastor on acts eight. Oh, by the way, this week's ask the pastor brought to you by one thousand balloons, the new novel. Go to 1000balloons.com,

and pick it up before this, Christmas season, for all those folks who like delicious literary delights. Hey. Could I do do, like, a, like, an audiobook version of this, but it's just me? Like, I wanna read this whole book, but it's all me. That's bold. I don't wanna put it out to anyone. I just wanna be able to listen to an audiobook myself. Yeah. Can make that happen? Yeah. You can do that with me. Yeah. Sure. Just turn the microphones on and leave. That's fine. Fantastic. Okay. Wow. You know what this could use more of? Me. Yeah. That sounds a lot like calamity if I'm being realized by the situation of fellas. I apologize. I saw this craft mac and cheese box, and I thought, you know what would make this even better for the masses? My face on it. Face on it. Hoover's life versus a slight variation to I must increase.

God has a plan for this book, and it's me. God has a plan for this book. It's Raise me like these balloons. Oh, fantastic. I love this. This is good stuff. This is why I need this show. Yeah. So I was reading in Acts chapter eight this this last… Actually yesterday, and so verses 14 through 17, and I wanted to talk about this. Now when the apostles of Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he had not fallen yet on any of them, or he he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them, and they received the holy spirit.

Holy cats, fellas. I'm gonna be honest with you. This freaked me out a little bit because as I was sitting through here, I was thinking, okay. So we got we got John in the baptism of water. We've got, now we've got the baptism of the holy spirit that I believe was was where I… I've I've been involved in up to this point, and now we've got these verses that's saying, they hadn't received the spirit through baptism. They just had been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. I was like, oh, no. Am I am I not doing this baptism thing right? Like, I just recently baptized people and have more people that are wanting to get baptized, and it's an awesome thing, and I wanna do it right. So I'm just trying to make certain that I'm not misunderstanding this because I recognize that, like, as I'm looking through this, this is the very beginnings of the church spreading. There's a there's a dispersion happening. Into the Gentile world. Yes. Exactly. Into the Gentile world. I recognize that there are certain specific things that are happening within the acts of the apostles that I'm not to look at and go, categorically, that is what I will run into at all times. This is what I should be doing at all times and all that stuff. Like, I don't expect Pentecost to happen every time I get together with people, just like I don't know if I should expect that I'm doing a baptism wrong, or if through the wisdom and knowledge of the Holy Spirit and through God being the Father that he is knew that in this specific situation it was good and right that they had received a baptism, but they needed to have Peter and John as apostles of this very new church that was starting Mhmm. Showing up and confirming

and making certain that this was being done correctly or in the right vein, I don't know, but I just wanted to ask a couple pastors about that and figure out what you guys thought. Have you had to teach on that before? Has that hit you similarly where, you know, that you had questions about it, or is it a quick answer that I'm just missing cause I didn't read the Greek or something like that? So that's my ask the pastor this week. Is there is there a denominational weirdness about this one? Probably. Weirdness. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. But but but it's it's actually… It's less about this one and more about when does the holy spirit come upon people in general that tends to be the split, and then this one… Then it follows that train Okay. Gotcha. Wherever it goes. Yeah. I I know, Dan, do you have… You wanna take it first? Or I I mean, I always have the simple answer. I mean, it's it's… This is the first… Going into the Gentile world, this could be as much for Peter and… Wait. Who's there? Peter and John. Peter and Yep. Peter and John, as it was for the disciples there. There's prescription

and descriptive. You know, know, like, sometimes the acts just describing what happened, and sometimes it's a prescriptive this how… What you're supposed to do. Mhmm. And and this is kinda like… This is what was happening, and it was all weird, and and everybody's trying to figure things out. And, wait. These Gentiles, wait. They they need us. You know? They need to do it, that extra step. And I think it's really that simple. It's not not a… I I wouldn't make a big… Personally, I don't make a big doctrinal thing out of that. It's it's not a pattern you see throughout the rest of the New Testament. Sure. Yeah. Right. You see laying on hands and praying. I mean, you see a lot of that going on, but not like, oh, no. They don't have the spirit until we we we touch them. I I think just personally that… It's been it's been a long time since I've done a deep dive on it. And, like, contextually within the chapter, get later on into this, like, the Simon the magician is is is also him too. Right. He… He's a part of before that, actually. Well, it's before… Yeah. Right. It's… It it… There's That's the next thing. It's Right. Simon's before and after because of the fact that, like, he's a part of this, then he sees this. Yeah. And then There's layers. They're able to tell, oh, this is… We can see the spirit within you that is, like, you're still thinking that this is a power for you to attain for whatever good or glory or whatever you want to create the same way that your magic at one point in time Oh, was one that you used to be,

you know, you… That the people in the area were talking about how he was called one that is greater. Simon was in that area. Yep. Yep. Then Philip shows up, and then all this stuff happens. And then immediately after this statement of Peter and John come down, and they are the ones that see this happen, then lay hands on them to receive the holy spirit. Mhmm. Then you get Simon coming up to him going, hey. I'll give you money for this. Money off of this. I would love to be able to have this power as well. Whether it's for good or not doesn't really talk about that within the chapter. We could probably guess that it's not for the greatest, which is why Peter kinda slams him. But, yeah, I just… For for the context of the rest of chapter two is important for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's… I do think I think Dan's right, and I think there's, like, other places in scripture would help kind of affirm that, like, Peter ends up being… He's the one unlocking the doors. Right? You're going to Judea and Samaria. Sure. Right? And it's it's it's interesting, especially if you grew up in the church. Sometimes we get the sense that, like, like, these miracles that are happening through the presence of the Holy Spirit,

as if those are the only miracles that are going on, or at least claimed. Right? Healing of people, that's not the only story in town. There's other people who claim to heal people. There's other people who are claiming to prophecy, but whether it's on Yahweh's behalf or someone else's behalf. Right? And so the question then becomes, how do I know this is the movement of Jesus? Yeah. Right? Or something like Simon the magician just may be doing, like, obviously exists already as Simon, the sons of Sikwas. Like, these are people who are, like, already doing these things. Are those the Skivas Yeah. That you say change to Skolas? Skolas. Yeah. Yeah. Ask the blue letter bible man. He'll tell it's a Skolas. Oh, that guy. Strong's

g fifty 776. 57 Skovas. Skovas. Skovas. Anyway, think about, we've talked about this before, you alluded to it, Buva, which is like, what is it like to protect the young church?

It looks like not like being very clear that the behavior of Ananias Sapphira is not acceptable. Yes. Right. People are still lying in the church buildings today, they're not dying. There's a unique protection of the early Right. Yep. In the same way, as you see this, that the Holy Spirit, the presence of the spirit and a reliance on it for the active movement of Jesus in our lives after Jesus has ascended, like, it needs some level of affirmation. Sure. Yeah. So that it doesn't get blended up with all the other things that are going on there. And so scripture tells us that there would be some gatekeeping and that Peter's responsible for Right. Okay. We get that. That's why we see him go to the Gentiles. That's why we see him, like, showing up in this situation. It's not a special provision of the Holy Spirit that, like, is distinct by pattern from baptism. It is a unique recognition and affirmation that this is an active work of Yahweh

and Jesus Sure. In this particular event and can be trusted as it outflows as opposed to something that could be like the sons of squats or, you know, the the magician dude or, like, all the other things like that. And so, like, you see it. It's not… It doesn't continue to happen because it's not necessary for it to continue to happen. But, like, in the early days of church, there's a lot that needs protected and affirmed, and God is doing that through a lot of these, like some of the odder stories that are going on there. You even see this, like I think there's something similar you see in, like, the the talisman healings. Right? So… Yeah. Right. You get where someone, like, grabs a hem of something. Like… And think those things are largely happening. And this is… Remember remember both Luke and Acts are written by the same guy. Mhmm. And you're intentionally seeing comparisons between miracles that happen through Jesus and then miracles that are then happening through his disciples. Right. Like, do I expect anybody should just be ragdolly grabbing an overcoat of a man who loves the Lord Yeah. Revealed?

No. But it's an affirmation that like this is that. Jesus told us that. Uh-huh. He said, you will do the things that I do. We heard that part, but, like, there's so much deceit and falseness into the world that, like, how do I know this is a thing of… That Jesus was pointing to and not sort of some of deceit? Well, look. The same thing happens. You see also… You see Peter able to raise the young girl. Very… Like, it's a mirrored story. Luke's intentional in this because the holy spirit's intentional in this, affirming how these things are, like, moving through time, but we don't continue to repeat it because it's not the same I was gonna say, yeah, Peter brings someone back from the dead the next chapter, like Tabitha or whatever her name was. Yeah. Taleitha Kom. Yep. Yes. Right. So Yeah. But did I've tried that four times. It didn't work? It did. Has not worked? Really awkward. Is it? Gosh, Dan. Would you change your name to Tabitha? Don't know. Is this… I can't… I haven't read that in a while, but I do… I've… I have been reading the Old Testament a lot. So, like, like, did did did Peter, like, lay on him and and pray? I don't understand this. Not Tabitha. Here's the thing. No. That was Jesus that did that with Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But so did but so did Peter just went up into the upper room. Was Masha?

Yeah. Elijah. Elijah. Elijah. Yeah. Yeah. Elijah. Okay. Here's the thing. It's like, I I say I had to call Ben within the last couple weeks because I made a bold spiritual move in a way, and I'm like, Ben, this felt real weird. And this would fall under that category where I'm like, this is this is the hearing the shepherd's voice thing. Right? Because on your own steam, you're like, well, okay. I'm just gonna full body lay on top of you, dead person. Excuse me, man. Hold up. Honestly, this is recorded. You know? Did you know that recently? No. I did… This is not the thing I did. Okay. That's… I did another thing. Oh, you're saying you laid on a dead person in the last couple of weeks. But but it it felt… The thing that I did, which I'm not gonna tell you, felt bold in a way. Yeah. Right? Outside of my normal spiritual comfort zone. You know? And so, like, it… It's it's stuff like that where I'm like, these people… Like, where you just read it and you go, like, these are great men of faith. And, like, what you're missing is they hear from Yahweh. Right? Because no one comes up with a plan to lay on a dead person three times. Right? Even the first one, you're like, I don't know about this. And then that that didn't work, and you're like, God says, do it again. You're like, why? That was… Why did I do this at all? Why does it have to be three times? Once more. I don't wanna do any of this. You know I'm saying? And so, like, the difference between what a faithful… You know, we're like, these are great men of faith, and, what they hear is a loud voice

of their creator telling them to do something, inviting them into something. Because there's zero amount of faith that produces you getting on top of a corpse three times and going Yeah. Like doing a snow angel and be like, well, What? Oh gosh. That hero faith thing hit me today because, like, the next chapter in Acts, you get Ananias who's called to, like, go and and, like, minister to Paul. Yeah. And he immediately is like, hey, god. Are you sure? Like, Jesus… Lord Jesus, are you a 100% certain about this? And and guy? Like, this is the guy that I'm pretty sure is, like, murdering people all over the place. Right? Like, that guy? Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna go to him, and you're gonna tell him what he's gonna do for me and my my kingdom. And it's like, okay. And then we never hear from that cat again. Yeah. Like, he's just the dude that's called to Damascus, does the thing,

has… Paul has a vision about him. He has vision about Paul, and it's like, I heard you're looking for me, Saul. I'm here. And it's like, okay. And then the gods like… Or Luke is basically like, we don't need to hear from this man again. Yeah. It's not important. Like, we need no more of this. It's fine. He's gone. When you when you get one of those moments, though, you you you you push back yourself, though. I mean, I'm… That's probably him even pushing back. Like, like, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Is this just a wild idea I had, or is this really god? You know? And and it… It's a it's a moment of faith to break through and actually do whatever it is god's leading you to do. Yeah. I mean, Gideon has the same kind of situation where he's like, are you sure? You know? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Loves it. About the situation. Warrior. He's like, I'm hiding in a threshing floor. I'm literally I'm I'm doing this work in the threshing floor because if the Moabites come anywhere near, they're steal all this from me. And it's like, yeah. You're the one. You should make me a meal. I'm gonna disrespect you pretty roughly.

Was it… Just being realized by the situation. You should just dump all that broth you just spent all that time on under this rock. But, like, we're gonna do some cool stuff. And Gay's like, but You should. Forgive me, Lord. Like, I'm a throw this fleece out, and then you do this thing. And then he does it. It's like, alright. But one more time, I'm a throw this fleece out. And if it's dry, we're good, and we'll keep doing that. So… No. It's just interesting. Okay. So, like, to go back to the the the original question. So Yep. I I I think that I kind of came to the same conclusion that it appeared as I'm reading through acts, and I'm I'm trying to to do a better job of reading through this book that in previous times that I've gone through it, admittedly I get stuck in the okay, next story, next story, next next story thing, right? And then I just take it, hyper focused, and then I walk away from it, and I go okay, what has that changed my life for? And like rarely ever have I ever gone through and go like, okay, this is actually like this is the story

of the church starting out post Jesus' ascension. And like this is very important to recognize these kind of things. And absolutely right, like Peter is going off and doing legitimate door opening situations for a lot of the Gospel to take what Paul will eventually kind of run with as well, what Philip and Stephen are doing with the Hellenists and all that stuff. I look at that now and I see there is some protection that is necessary for this new thing, like this new thing that's absolutely necessary. It's important for Peter and John to be there involved in that situation. It's important for me to be able to look at this and go, ah, was a change of heart within this this, like, area of the world or this specific town or towns

that also… I'm gonna call out this baptism situation and then immediately call out the problem with Simon the magician and what he had, and then Peter needed to be there to be able to go, I know your heart. I could see your spirit, and I could see that it's screwing this up, and this isn't right. And so I had a feeling that it wasn't somewhere I needed to be worried about, like if I'm doing baptisms going forward, do I need to do the dunking and then bring them back up and then call a couple people and be like, alright, now we gotta lay hands on them and then the spirit descends on them, or am I good to do what I've understood baptism would be this whole time? And I'm more comfortable with the latter going through that situation, not needing to be like, we gotta call friends, and that's when this happens. I'm not worried about the timing. I just wanted to see what you guys' thoughts. Yeah. Go ahead, Gabe. Well, I was gonna say the thought that I have on this is I think it also maybe points out something that a lot of the western church in different places have become comfortable with and we shouldn't have. Like, I I think that right now… Where does it say? In verse… It's

so funny. Verse 16, it says, for he had not yet fallen upon any of them. They had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. That just seems so stupid. Like, it's so… Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. But… Like Yeah. Not three chapters prior, someone was just, like, healed Right. Specifically in the name of the Lord Jesus Right? Know? Exactly. Simple stuff. But I think that so many people now are simply baptized in the name of Jesus. And what I mean by that is, like, Jewish people that time would not have been baptized normally. A lot of it was a Gentile thing that if they were becoming God fearers, people that feared God or they would come into the faith that way, they would be baptized or immersed. It means completely immersed in water. In the same way where

when scripture, you know, says to shake the dust from your feet. That was a a thing that the the Jewish people would have done when they left the Gentile land. They would have wiped the dust off their feet. They didn't even wanna bring that back in. In the same way when a Gentile person would be a God fearer, they would be washed and then come into the faith as followers of God. And I believe that that might be what this is saying here is just that act of declaring was done here. They heard the good news, and then these people said, I believe. I will show I believe now by being baptized. But they still hadn't, in my opinion,

been baptized in the way that Jesus declares in the great in the great commission where he says, go out, baptize them in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. I've I've I've been challenging myself on these verse… Not these particular, but baptism for quite a few months now just questioning, you know, what it means or anything. But when Jesus says to to go and be baptized,

the word baptized, like I said, it means immersed. And we've made the word baptize a… Its own thing. You know, we've made it mean strictly this religious thing of we're dunking for this purpose. And we can almost overlook the meaning of the word, which is to immerse. And if we think or listen to Jesus say, go and immerse them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and we can think that Jesus didn't baptize

anyone in prior to his death and resurrection that we see in scripture. Right. But it does say that he baptized them with fire. It said that he would in scripture. We do know at Pentecost that it says that the spirit came in and flooded the room, and the sound was like a roar. Yeah. The the words that are used for that means literally filled it up completely like they were drowning in the spirit, and they were immersed in the spirit. And it was at that moment when they changed, the church was born. And I think… I don't think there was any special power

by Peter and John with their laying on of hands. I don't think that's what it is. I don't think it's like the spirit's contagious, now since they have it, they have it. But I do think that it was a matter of faith, think, that Philip from this, I think, needed to continue to learn. Because from this, he goes and then speaks to the Enoch,

Ethiopian, and then he floats away and teleports him. But, you know, I mean, the… I think that helped him within his ministry. But I wonder myself if, like, for many times in my life, have I… Was I just simply baptized in the name of Jesus? I just declared it, but the spirit truly hadn't transformed me yet. Mhmm. And maybe in order for those people to truly experience that, they had to have somebody else that experienced it potentially. You know, I I I… Not needed, but I think that's part of the beauty of the early church is God did use

those that were there in order to show it and declare it. Absolutely. Yeah. And so, like, when it comes to today, are we doing it wrong? Are we… Should we not even be dunking people? Should we not even… Should we splash? You know, whatever else it is. I wonder if if it's perfectly fine to baptize someone with water to have that declaration because we need to. But then I… You know, to pray that God would really immerse them in the spirit. And I don't mean in a I should've bought a Kia, but I bought a Honda tire. You know what I mean? Like, weird way, but like a a life changing transformation way.

So are you saying that that there is the the the symbol that is the the dunking of of someone within the water is less important Yes. Of… In in the way that you've come at it from the perspective of of what you have found to be the word that's being used there, meaning immersion of the spirit and things like that? Well, not not even just the word, but the…

Prior to the great commission, Jesus spoke to them, he said, not a few days from now, I will baptize you. And and, you know, I think he said in, I'll find it here, Matthew something, but he talks to them and he also declared that he would do… Yeah, because there's a there's a there's a fundamental characteristic change Right. From what you are being baptized in. What

I've always heard and what I've looked into also is like the word, the baptizo thing that was used there, meaning that piece, was to take on the characteristics of that, and honestly, love this because I think it goes back to, like, a second century Greek pickle recipe. It's it's like the… It's the difference between what you would do where you you get vegetables out of the garden and you wash them. Mhmm. Right? And there's, like, a there's cleansing of them that happens, but then the word that is being used also in the same recipe being a different thing, baptizo, is when they are actually changed through the pickling liquid, and that is important from the perspective of like that's the word that's being used by the New Testament authors as they're talking about that process and that peace, meaning that it can't go back to what it was before. It's categorically

and characteristically changed by what it was baptized into, and I don't think that there is power in water that we are giving power to H2O than we need to, but I think there is something important about the perspective that says that there's an immersion that is symbolic of the death and resurrection through the water. It is it is immersion and the purification that you're taking on from understanding that it's a proclamation of your faith that you cannot do it on your own. You're justified by your faith in the living father and Christ being the Messiah, the one that had to die for our sins to fulfill all of that covenant. And so I think that's important to make certain that you're doing all of those symbols

as a whole, understanding that it is a public declaration of I am changed. There's a repentance in me. I'm dying to my old self, and I'm being risen to my new self because I am a different, characteristically different creature based off of what I've just done, and a symbolic act of it, and like we also see very specifically in that chapter Philip in the Ethiopian eunuch. Philip is taken, and the Holy Spirit tells him, Get in the carriage, talk to him about the Isaiah

scroll that he's reading, and then immediately the Ethiopian eunuch is the one who says why not right now? We're next to a body of water. So there's something important… Exactly. There's something important about going and doing that thing within the water. So that's the only caution that I take on on the perspective that says, like, is is the water as important? And I guess maybe I might have been misunderstanding. Well, no. No. And I I still don't think it is, though, is that, like, it's it's it's important in the sense of a feeling. It's an outward expression of an inward change is what But they I think too many times people have it without the inward change. They just have the outward expression. And this obviously isn't the case for everyone. Yeah, sure. But

many people think, okay, I'm a Christian now, I have to get baptized. Or if I get baptized, then I'll truly be a Christian and things will change. And I just say that from the perspective of I've had many people ask me to be baptized and I'll ask them, well, why do you want to be baptized? Well, know, it's probably time, you know, or or you know, that sort of a thing. Sure. Yeah. And and it brings up more conversation of, what is, you know, this? Oh, absolutely. It's like it's like I have a squirt bottle right here. Could… We can do it right this second. I have baptized with stuff like that but, you know, I think you're right. Where it says, you know, there's some water over there. It is important to be baptized for our declaration sense, but I think

not not… I wouldn't put it on a scale of importance. I think even greater is the immersion in the transformation that happens with God. And I think we shouldn't settle for For the water. Yeah, right. For the water. Oh, absolutely. It's only symbolic. The actual power comes from the Holy Spirit and God's work and what he's doing to redeem his people. A renewing of covenant in their life that they now have allegiance and repentance from what they were before, death in the sin that they were in, and acceptance of the salvation that they received through the gift that was Jesus, but then also the the faith in the fact that it was real, that he was the son of God, he was the one who died to take on all of the the the the consequences of sin and death and all that stuff. Yeah. I I guess the only caution I'd have here is that, like, I… We've…

There is there is a lot baked into what is ultimately an aberration. There's a there's a pretty… There's… It's pretty consistent in Acts, like, this… With the not separation between what the the water baptism Sure. And say the provision of the spirit. Right? So, like, this is the aberration. This is not the consistency. I don't know what the word aberration is. It's not that… This is the thing that is different. Yeah. This is the one time that we see the situation called out that, like, there's a baptism in the name of Jesus, and it's not the holy spirit. Yeah. And so, like, I like, think it's Which is why I had the question in first place. So It is tricky. Yeah. There's a risk, though, and it's actually something I was gonna say earlier when we were talking about this, is that it's one of the risks of doing chapter division theology. Because if you take this thing on its own as if it is… It stands alone as the story, and then you then you say, oh, well, it's it's further along in the story. Now I reread back and now understand that based upon this. Mhmm. I think I think we… It can it can bring us to some difficult

conclusions. Mhmm. And so what I know is consistent is that, like, I believe I got baptized. There isn't a… There is… Outside of this, there's not really a separation from that. Jesus doesn't prescribe a separation of that either. Right? His declaration. I'm not… I don't know. I I I probably have to think some more about, like, what you were talking about when Jesus says, like, if you're baptizing the name of the father, son, and holy spirit, like, it's speaking to those things as the as the trinity union representation of God. Right. Not father, son, and then separate holy spirit as a distinct thing to, like, feel or do. 100%. Yeah. And I actually think fundamentally we're probably in agreement here, but I don't know that that changes how I would think about… I think it would take some effort for me to get to the place to think about this as something other than… I don't think it's gatekeeping as in they are holders of the Holy Spirit. I think, again, it's an affirmation from an early church perspective. Don't think there's enough in the text, at least at this point for me, to say that there's something unique about

how they reacted to the message of God that would allow me to confidently prescribe an action from it, if that makes sense. Because, again, it stands as unique situation relative to the other things. I think also to kind of piggyback on something you were saying too, like I think it's important that as I'm having more baptism conversations than I've ever had in my entire life, right, and I'm excited to be involved in that, and it's such an exhilarating thing, not because I need the exhilaration from humans. But because the water's very cold. But because it's it's such it's such… Need a cold blood. I consider myself to be such a baby Christian in many ways, and I get I I get to be in a position where I get to watch my father work. That's what I mean by the exhilaration of it.

I've had plenty of people, and actually I had two gals that were sitting at our house on Sunday and asking the questions of like, you know, we're thinking about being baptized, like, this is something we care about, and part of me was like, okay, so I should ask more questions. Absolutely, I believe that, but then they were also making comments about like, well, were at another church, and they said we had to, like, sign up for this thing and then show up to this thing, and then they had to do a class and all this stuff. And I'm like, I understand why those things exist. Like, no part of me goes, well, that's just stupid. I can't understand at all why you would want to have a confirmation of this situation. Like, I totally get it. But then my brain started going to, but why am I, why would I ask them to wait at all in this situation? Like, I want to confirm because I believe that the Holy Spirit is within me and I can help understand where they're at. I can understand and help guide them towards like, this is the gravity of what we're doing. Same as, that's why I pray over communion. It's like, I want this to be a thing that we're very importantly talking about. This isn't just like a, hey, let's pray about our day and then take this communion thing. Like, it's like, I wanna make certain we're holding not a reverence to a ritual, but certainly trying to make certain we're keeping the right things in mind. And

that's exactly why I wanted to ask this question in the first place, because I thought to myself, I'm thinking through these conversations, like, do I do I say, great. Let's drive to the river, and let's do this right now. Is there any reason why I can't do it in my bathtub? Like, is there no reason why I can't just run some water over them over my sink because it's too cold to do any the other stuff? And it's just it was it was interesting to kinda take a step back and have to go like, oh, wow. I guess I've never had to ask these questions before. And and I I very interestingly was just into this the next day as I was like, okay. Cool. This is an awesome time me to have to kinda walk through this. So, yeah. It's it's it's just interesting. Well, I think the only… I I mentioned Jesus doesn't baptize anyone in the sense of what we think about baptism. Yeah. But at the same time, I have baptized someone with just a water bottle or something, you know, and whether on the head or if it was a elderly person, maybe on a bed and it was on their hand or, you know, different things, but I think of the foot washing and Jesus cleansing them in that way and a form of them… Of him being a servant and baptizing him in that way. But I think it's important to ask these questions. It doesn't mean that we're going to think of something new or profound. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, it shows that we're seeking more.

Yeah. It it… I love looking into the… I I… Maybe I ask too many questions. I don't know. Maybe I'm that guy, where it's like I just don't take anything serious, but… Or I take everything too serious. I don't know. No. I actually think that's ever the situation. Actually, I found I found that I've gotten I've gotten less… Shoot. Don't know the right word for it. Maybe it is gatekeepersh on baptism in the presence of the Ethiopian eunuch story. Because… And and probably a a theologian… Like, a realization

that, like, what is it that I'm expecting? Is it a level of head knowledge that I'm… Like, we take the test for that? That doesn't make any sense. People on Pentecost. It was right then, there was Yeah. Just like, do you recognize that you are broken and fallen and for… You are lost without him and, like, you are under family right then. It's a declaration of the faith that, like, I have faith that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, and that I cannot live in paradise with my father in a right relationship being justified by my faith until I profess and proclaim this situation. It was very interesting. I had the conversation of somebody tried to go, I but sin still, and I'm like, yeah, but like this isn't the end of the process. This is the beginning. Like, this isn't the end where you go, now I'm holy. Let the Holy Spirit come into my heart and life. I'm like, sanctification is a process because the Holy Spirit is a helper within your heart, changing things and calling things out and giving you knowledge and being a helper alongside you. Your life and walk are different when you have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So why would I wait till the end of my walk to start walking with him when I should be walking with Him the whole time? Mhmm. Yeah. Maybe one thing that is consistent about the inconsistency of this piece of scripture is that even with Pentecost,

I mean, the disciples probably were baptized at one point by water as well, and they chose that, but they didn't choose to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. They were they were obedient, yes, and they were waiting in the room, but the… But God chose when that day would happen. And I think here as well, these people chose when they would be baptized, but, you know, they probably didn't have a say as well either when the Holy Spirit. And and I keep saying Holy Spirit as if it's like some separate entity, but but Act certainly talks about it. Was gonna say the spirit does talk about it descending, and I think it's just because it's a way that we can understand as well. But We might have to put a pin in this one because I have some more questions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could talk on this stuff forever. I… Sorry. That is an anomaly, though. Like, the initial

presence of the holy spirit, it probably is a is is a hard thing to compare to because, like, it only happens once. Right? Like, that's not the same thing as… Right. Right. As how the Bible continues to describe baptized holy spirit, baptized holy spirit. Like, that kind of establishes… I… That… I think that would be hard because that's not… That's the initial thing that happens, but it doesn't continue to act that same way. So that's probably worth exploring. Go ahead, Mike. No. No. I'm… Seriously, we're gonna have to put a pin in this one because I think it will go… This conversation's Oh, I thought… Oh oh, yeah. I thought you were gonna ask more questions. No. I… No. I'm I'm purposely not asking them. Okay. Because I think it… This… It's got another hour in it. Next week on live from the past. So we're gonna… Yeah. We're we're gonna put a pin on holy spirit things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially that that part. Okay. Got it. Got it. You've listening to live from the path. Let's see. If we… Bless you for having hung on that long. We were having a good time. I'd… You know, I don't know what's going on with the song. Boys. If you came here for belly laughs and talk about raisin bran, say, you're weak. This is… Yeah. This wasn't the one. Five run You gotta save it, Mike. Bring us back with some raisin bran and belly laughs. We're running a heavy bible, and, we're skipping the trucker like you're hoping. Five one five five one seven zero zero eight five. Call or text. Alright. What do we got for advice? Okay. Here we go. You get one advice. Ready? Okay. Ready. Live from the path.

I was recently invited for a long weekend at my friend's new home in South Carolina. She has wanted me she has wanted me to come there to visit ever since she bought it. I offered to come down, but then I sprained my ankle, and then it still hasn't healed. My friend then told me her daughter and son-in-law will be there with their two young children. She said we can babysit her grandchildren while I'm there when her daughter and son-in-law go out. I told her I don't wanna go down there to babysit. I don't have any kids, and I don't enjoy babysitting. Yep. She used to do this to me before when… Before she moved. Now she's upset that I won't help her. What should I do? Wait. So your friend is asking you to come down to South Carolina the same time to her new house

as her her daughter or son-in-law, whatever Yeah. Are there with their kids Yeah. And you can be there to help her babysit these kids. Yeah. You don't wanna do that because she used to do that when she lived in the same area as you, and now she's upset that you won't come help her in South Carolina, babysit her her grandchildren? Yeah. It's ridiculous on both sides. This woman lives a wildlife. This is a unique situation where I disagree with both of them. Like, I I think you should be a a good enough friend to be able to do something like that and not add… Absolutely kick that out and go, would never. I'm not helping kids. I don't like kids. But I also think it's ridiculous for the friend to be like, hey. You should come down to South Carolina with your sprained ankle and help me babysit my grandchildren when I know you don't like them. Where does she leave? It does not say. Ways away from South Carolina. She could be at the border. North Carolina. Chris, you got you got two perspectives here. You you got… The one who's riding doesn't like children. So she's like, she just wants me to come and help the chill… Children. Sure. True. And the other gal is probably thinking, let's hang out together. My grandkids happen to be here. Yeah. We'll have some fun. Right. Valid point. I mean, I… You know,

don't go. It's just easy. Do But it sounds like you've done it before. Like, when she lived up here, you did it? Right. When they lived on the border of North Carolina as well, you babysat with them, and you didn't like it then. And you didn't say anything about it. And that's okay. You don't have to love to. Think you'd… Yeah. I don't Yeah. I've been If I grant this, I don't expect my friends to like it. Honest conversation to be had here with your friend. You're like, hey, man. They're gonna drop these kids off again. You wanna help me babysit? You know what? I don't. Yeah. I don't wanna do that. Okay. Back when we can have our time. Right. Yeah. I'm still confused what any of this has to do with her sprain in her ankle. I'm stuck on that. She can't chase the kids. I'm really… Oh. Oh, okay. I was gonna come down at one point in time and then sprained her ankle and then couldn't come down to that time? Fact that she's old. She's a complainer. It sounds like to me. Also, a very lucky breakfast. I hurt my foot. Yeah. I mean, This person would like me. To The holiday sauce on my ex Benedict didn't turn out like Martha's. But is it possible that you could reframe the whole discussion? Like, the reality is is that this is common.

This person lives near the daughters, the the son and daughter-in-law or whatever, and they bring the kids over as a normal pattern of fun. Say that. Yeah. But it just… Like, this seems most most realistic to me. Is that They're down there for vacation. Is that what they said? That's what it seemed like to me. But, like, you Like, does it sound more realistic? Yes. It does. Like to me that grandma because you thought of it. Just moved to South Carolina Yes. At the new house. The kids came down with the grandkids to see the house in South Carolina at the same time that Friend from Illinois is coming down to see the house in South Carolina. And it just so happened that these… All these same people converged on the new house at the same time. And so a friend does not want to babysit the grandkids with her because she doesn't like kids that much. And so she's like, no. I'm not coming down for a vacation that I'm gonna end up having to babysit your grandkids at. Yeah. That would make more sense actually if she was babysitting these kids before she moved, that they're all from Danville. Maybe they're bad kids. French lick. They could be terrible kids. They could just harassed. Into consideration. Yeah. These could be bad kids. But I'm… Yeah. But this isn't… Like, is the impression that, you're not watching the whole time. Like, if you're down there for a week, maybe just a night or two. Right. True. There's a… Yeah. Right. There's a chance that when mom and dad are going out on the town the one night, you have to be there. Could wait till them kids ain't there. Just two weeks later Yeah. Right. And just not babysit them at all. I mean, I don't wanna go isn't that changeable. But I mean, as as as a person with a grandchild, I I wouldn't wanna go to a friend's house who's watching their grandkids. It's like, well, not my grandkids. Like, you guys have your time. That's special, and it's good, and it's wonderful. I don't wanna interfere,

and that way, you can pay attention to them, and then I'll come see you when when we can do our thing. Dan, when I have grandchildren, I expect you to come watch them. No. I'll… I I might be able to. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose I don't even have the kids yet. I'm just saying We're a long ways off from potential grandkids. Alright. Fair enough, Dan. Disco Dan, don't share time. I'll have a sprained ankle. I can feel it. Disco Dan. Okay. Okay. So what's our advice? Yeah. Wait. Yeah. I think that's great advice. Just go down at a different time. Yeah. Yeah. Just say no. Right. I'm not… Don't wanna come babysit. For the kids' sake, don't go because you're a complainer. Yeah. Exactly. That's bad influence I don't like anybody in this. I don't even like the grandkids. I don't either. Yeah. They're probably a little snotty. I do like South Carolina, though. That does sound nice. There's snow here somewhere. I'll come down and hang out with you and watch out. Like I'm fine with For a trip to South Carolina, I'm cool with that. Yeah. K. So the question was, now she's used to do… To doing this before she moved. Now she's upset that I won't come down there and help her. What should I do? Secular says, what you do is this, Repeat to your manipulative friend that your ankle is still healing. It is difficult to get around, and you are unable to chase after young children. Tell her that when you are better, you would love to see your place and visit one on one, then stick to your guns.

K. So what Sekler's advice is to overdramatize the level of injury Right. And then lie because that's not the reason you don't wanna be there. Right? You don't go down down down there because you don't wanna be watching them grandkids, and you're too scared to say so because you think that she's gonna be mad at you. But if she's gonna be mad at you, then maybe you should just renegotiate what… Where you think your friendship is at. She's gonna be mad at you. Luckily, she just moved to South Carolina. Yeah. I mean, you just might have to be like, look, man. I just, can we come down there? Mean, I'm not saying that you have to be bluntly honest just to cause a confrontation. You could say, hey. I can't make it the week that you're asking. Is there any chance we could do it? Act like you're flipping a calendar. Sure. Third week of April. Yeah. Maybe. Or maybe kids won't be here. Well, dang it. Go down the same time and just make another reason that you gotta go out the night that she's gotta be there to take care of her grandkids. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't think you… There's no reason to lie, and there's no reason to cause a fight. But if you can get what you want and put her in a different position just by asking some questions and suggesting another date, I think you can do that without, you know, being immoral. You know, just just don't you don't have to press so hard on these two particular items. Mike, are you suggesting that this person that's asking for advice would be able to avoid a lot of their problems if they were just a normal human being Yes. Interacting with human beings in a normal way? Actually, normal human beings act like this woman, which is why we have trouble… Alright. Decent human beings. Alright. Fine. Now I might have a solution here because in March, we're taking a team to do some hurricane relief down in that area. Yeah. And we'll take the children off their hands and put them in a work camp, and it'll be great. You should… We were a minute away from not having heard that. You should rethink the phrase work camp. Well, we'll we'll have a better word for it. Literally,

there's never a situation where it's okay to go. We as a church are coming down, and we'll take your children to a work camp. Yeah. We're we're people of the way. Are people of the way. Yep. Oh. And if they don't, they also have broken ankles. Yeah. That's right. No. Now put on these magic under kind of extortion child labor work camp that we're running in South Carolina now. We gotta do Not us. Under the guise of disaster relief. Abby is doing it. Yes. Okay. Fair enough, secular. Nice. Well, that's it. You get to one. We get to one. And we're saying, look. You just need to, be honest but not cruel, and there's no reason to to press on a a callus if you don't need to. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. Okay. You've been listening to live for the path. Thanks for hanging out with us this evening. We very much appreciate Again, make sure you check out that book, 1000balloons,.com. Gabe, big thanks for coming in, buddy. Appreciate it. Yeah. Glad to have you on the show. You have a open invitation. Anytime you wanna roam on in, feel free to do so. I'm staying the night. Alright. He's Oh, sweet. He's gonna sleep in the corner. He'll be here till 7AM. It'll be great. In the meantime, don't know. You know, holiday schedules are dicey. I think, we'll see how the next few weeks run, but, in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.