Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the path. You're listening to live from the Path coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper. It's

it listen. You're magnificent. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. I was for all the peoples, including you including you, Bo. You've been part of it. The nicest thing you've ever said to me. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I was I was I was genuous. In Genuous? Isn't the phrase disingenuous? I think so. So it'd be ingenuous.

Yeah. But is it but in is is not. The prefix is Oh, so is it double double negative prefix is disingenuous? I'm not sure about that. I don't know how to take this anymore. Just be genuine. Yeah. I'll be genuine. Anyway, you're listening to live from the path. Here's here's what we got going on the program tonight. Big question. Big question roaming around in Ben's mind for the last couple weeks, which is I listen.

This is not devolve into some sort of weird political discussion. Do not send us stuff on the Google Voice about your core political beliefs. I don't care. But the question is, if especially if you're, like, more conservatively leaning politically,

if if some of the really big things happen in the Trump administration that that they're pointing to. I mean, like significant reduction of

of like government services and spending and stuff like that. I mean, changes from a from a health perspective, maybe even some of the things where I think the cultural that this isn't even specific to Trump administration, believe me, I think culturally some of the

tides are turning on like transgender stuff and how pervasive that is or how it's regulated by the government, stuff like that and so if everything you

wanted or you believe could happen from the Trump administration were to happen today, are you ready for the spiritual implications of that tomorrow? And so, and I'll talk through some examples that were running through my head, but the big caution that has been in my mind

is that we have to be super cautious that things that may even to you or for the country feel like a victory come with spiritual consequences, Come with work for the church. And I would say that's actually true regardless who the who the just one office. Anytime

you have a significant shift in the country on things that can happen fast, especially if you got both houses in the presidency. Right? Yeah. Stuff can shift very quickly. There is always, that's always an impetus for spiritual work and when it's not your victory, if you don't agree with it politically, you run the risk of,

you're like, okay, we got all kinds of work to do. But when you do agree with it politically, I think you run the risk of going, ah, we won. And I'm telling you that spiritually, no one won. It just has a context to how you think about what work lies ahead and I do believe it will be more than than perhaps what you're thinking, especially if you agree, and so I I'll I'll walk through those, but I wanna talk about that. K.

We can go through those things. Also, Mubb's got a question on the Witch of Endor. Yes. Did we didn't we talk about this recently? I don't maybe we did. Okay. If we did, I'm sorry. Okay. We'll we'll we'll we'll maybe it'll be easy because we've talked through it. Yeah. Was reading through the last 15 chapters in Samuel because I was getting into the David story, and I I sometimes skim past things, and I I definitely skim past, the bride price that, that David had to pay for Michal, his wife, or whatever her name was. Oh, yeah. And then I I skim past the fact that there's a medium of Endor,

and, Saul is like, hey. You should, you should tell me if the lord's gonna, you know, do this thing. Yep. And she's like, alright. I see a a god walking towards me right now. Yep. She starts describing him, and he's like, wait a minute. That's no god. That's Samuel. Yeah. And it's like, wait a minute. Samuel's dead. Wait. What? And so that was kind of my question. As we went through that, was like, holy cats. I don't know how to take that. And so I I I have to ask about that. Okay. Alright. We'll talk about that. Also, the surprising but not surprising heartbreak of leading people to Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I started doing I started doing a a different ministry in the last, like, five weeks or so, and we started doing church out of our house, and it's been amazing. It's been such an awesome and rewarding thing for for even my wife and I. We weren't expecting the rewards that we've been getting over the last, you know, five weeks or so. Yep. But I tell you, I did not have any clue

or or was not prepared for, the heart attacks that hits you when, when somebody walks away. Yeah. It just hurts, and I wasn't expecting that. Alright. We'll get some, we'd like to hear more about that. Get some insight maybe from Dan who's been, doing ministry for, probably met many of these types of circumstances. Many. And we'll see we'll see what wisdom Daniel has for us. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Love it. Also, we have some advice on dear life from the path, and there's a couple of things. If it depends on how the conversations go. If we have time, one, I was at a I was at some homeschool basketball games over the weekend, and some of these mascots, I'm just it just feels like people aren't thinking through them

very well. As an example, like and and our teams are called the warriors, and at least one of the old Wolder logos is is like a Roman centurion mask. And so I just and and I saw multiple teams who were called the warriors or even not the warriors, like soldiers or some other, I don't know, like, warlike name that I'm not sure is quite going for what Jesus was after. But they're all they're all using, like, a Roman soldier as the mascot, and I just cannot pull this together why they're behaving in this way. Like, it's just like we didn't think about it. And so I'm totally over indexing on it, but then I was trying to think through what is it? What do I think is okay? Like, what would be a good mascot?

Yeah. For me. Why don't they just go ahead and beat the demons? Yeah. Right. Right. The blue demons. The holy blue demons. The holy blue demons. I don't anyway I'd love to see that team play. It just feels like we didn't we put, like, one thought into it instead of two. And two thoughts would go, you know what? Even if we wanted to be the warriors and, again, these these war names, I'm just aren't sure what we're after. But, like, maybe not the Roman centurion who, you know, helped crucify Jesus. Maybe that's not the the image we're going for. You don't understand that basketball court is a battlefield. Yes. That's and it's yeah. Yeah. And that's the problem. I'm against that. I'm against it. Anyway, so we'll we'll see if we get to that. And I think maybe this will the carry into next week, but I was I saw I saw a somebody offering this is gonna put you off, like, right away because it did to me. Like, somebody offering a like, a one day spiritual training for, $1,500. I'm like, man. Oh, boy. But but the premise

I thought was interesting and basically the question is, is it like, just like all politics is local, are we doing ourselves a disservice by thinking of discipleship and influence as anything but local? And I say that because it was a post, it's like a thing put on by a guy who's published, I don't know, like 25 books or something. He's a pastor. He's done all kinds of speaking. He's got all kinds of people that follow him on the social medias. At least for the premise of the event that he's trying to get people to go to, presumptive like he's basically going, it was all nothing. Like it didn't mean anything.

It felt like it's all fake influence. The thing that makes a difference is you, your community, your families, that type of thing. I and we've kinda touched on that before but I think it's it's the question it's it's probably worth hitting up again especially as you you just maybe some of the stuff that we're gonna talk to in the political conversation. Okay. Hey. Yes. Real quick. Yep. I think I think local fine dining is fake. You know how, like, we've got the fine dining restaurants that are, like, giant and and all the places that spend, you know, $800 per dinner kinda thing. Yeah. I think those might be real because that's more art than it is, like, a legitimate meal that you're eating. Yeah. But I think if there's, like, an Applebee's of fine dining where it's, like, fine dining in the local neighborhood kinda thing, I think it's fake, and here's why. I went to a joint that I would classify as local fine dining in the last week and a half. Yeah. And they brought out a bowl of artisanal Chex Mix.

And they set it on the table, and it was complimentary. Oh, nice. And I was like, oh, thank you. And as we were eating the Chex Mix, I found a garbanzo bean in it. Oh. And the reason I think it's fake is because I didn't know if I was too dumb to understand that their Chex Mix should have garbanzo beans in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or if I was smart enough to have realized that, like, no. This is a stupid premise that there should be a garbanzo bean in a Chex mix. This is dumb. Yeah. And it was a it was a dilemma on whether or not I should even mention this and go, hey. There's a chance that there are rogue

garbanzo beans in your check in your Chex Mix. You're talking like a a a the the kind you'd seen in salad bar, like a soft Yes. Like a chickpea. Like Yeah. Like, it belonged in another salad, but it was a cold, mushy chickpea in my the Chex Mix. Chex Mix. And I realized that there I'm I'm not dumb. And so I made the comment, and I went, hey. Just a heads up. I'm guessing a mousetrap. I think your your fancy artisanal Chex Mix has garbanzo beans in it. Is that a is that an intentional thing? Because it's so weird. And if it's not an intentional thing, check your Chex Mix. I think there might be chickpeas in there. Maybe that's their distinction. And it came about them apart. Right. Exactly. It came about that, oh, no. The Chex Mix is just plated very close to where they do their salads. Oh. And a garbanzo bean ended up in our Chex Mix. So just saying. I think local fine dining might be fake. Anyway Okay. Yes. Yeah. I mean, heads up, I guess. Yeah. Heads up. Okay.

Alright. So here's here's the question. Are you are you ready? Are you ready if if everything in the the newly elected administration were to come true? So things things are on my mind that may be true. So they're intentionally looking for a reduction in what they're calling waste, fraud, and abuse from a government perspective. But I think it also crosses into what is like some of your more libertarian views, which is like, I dunno, maybe the government shouldn't be doing this. Either private sector or people individually should be doing those types of things. Sure.

And so regardless of how excited you might be for that, I'm gonna tell you right now that the reality is is that, they are there are some things that are like very distinctly wasteful for sure and then there's all kinds of things where you're like, I don't think the government should be involved in that but there are people who are receiving services from this type of thing

And so even think about things like there's money that comes from the federal government in addition to just general taxes that are collected for like free and reduced lunches, right? And so whatever you think about the the well, hey, maybe the government can will be in comp is not good at this. Health care and food and all kinds of things. If if they just said tonight, okay,

we're out. Mhmm. Like, I I I want did you have you considered what what that means? Because either you have to go something like, well, the the we should just stop doing free and reduced lunches. Like, they'll figure it out. The parents will figure out. I'm not sure that smells particularly like like Jesus necessarily.

Yeah. But but so but do we have are we doing any of those things? Like, are you prepared tomorrow? And so it's it's that kind of stuff where, like, maybe it feels politically right. Gets get the government out of that stuff. I don't really want them involved, but, it's not that it just goes away. It we have to ask ourselves, is there a is there a people responsibility? And if so, how much of it is the Christians? Is it a Christian specific

thing to be involved with or community type of thing to do? And so like, that's one example. And so like, do you feel like you think that's a risk that we have of being, finding what feels like good political policy, reduction of size of government, people who aren't doing things efficiently, but like,

seems to me that there is an impact then, because that doesn't just go away, it does shift, and are we thinking about that? Yeah, I think that's an excellent question. I remember actually having that same conversation back in the Reagan administration. Oh yeah, yeah. You know, when we'd sit around in churches, talk about, okay, yeah, we need to cut this and cut that and cut that, and it'd be great, and that's how it's supposed to be because this is the church's job. Yep. And I'm like, okay. So are you ready then tomorrow to start feeding all of these people? Yes. Right. You know, because and clothing them and all the things. Yep. And well well, you know, they need to get to go work. You know? Was like, well, some of them will. You know? Some of them will.

Some of some of them won't. You know? I don't yeah. I think you're right. We what would it take? I mean, we have to build from the ground up. I mean, it happens. It happened in the book of acts. You know? Hey. Let's let's get some food to the widows, you know, and and, oh, boy, this isn't working. Reboot. You know? Yep. Yep. Pick some guys. And it might be one of those situations. But the the thing is the early church had, you know, people selling property and laying it to the apostle's feet saying Right. Apostle's feet saying, let's let's take care of the people. You know? That's right. And and we don't have that now. Maybe we will then. Maybe the people will say, oh, wait. It really does depend on that, and god has an ability to raise up people. It would take God raising up people in big ways because what we've done, the church has gotten has become like lazy fat cats, and we got big buildings and big budgets, and we're spending more money on fog machines than we are feeding the poor, and, like,

some churches will have to decide, well, do we want the fog or do we want people to eat? Yeah. And there'll be some that choose either way, you know, and that'll say a lot, but it'll take a radical change in your average congregation. Yeah. I think right. And I think it's because even a lot of the conversation I'm hearing around this, they're like, hey, we think this will open up a new kind of like a Reagan era generation of prosperity, but it's more about personal Right. Personal growth. Right. Like, hey. Well, they're gonna cut the taxes. Well, the taxes were paying for something, and there is totally some waste in there, but, like and you may not care about a lot of it. You might be like, hey. The government shouldn't be sponsoring

the save the Oregon OWL fund. Mhmm. Okay? But, like, here's the thing. You got the you got the the ability to not have to think about that OWL because the government was doing it. You know? And just because you don't care about it doesn't mean it's probably not important. And, like, there's so much going on. I actually think I was talking to somebody over the last couple weeks that, like, one of the detriments I think we have is just in our modern age is I'm not sure we're built to be able to take in all the information that's able that we're able to or even all the destruction and sadness. Yes. Right. It was like like, it's just so much to carry around. And so, like and and and some of this solves because it just it pushes local. And so maybe your federal taxes go down, but your state taxes are gonna have to go up because it's just not that simple. You're being very narrow and shortsighted to go, hey. I think we can cut this and we can lower all the taxes,

and the stuff that was paying for just goes away. It's that's naive. Even if there there's totally things to save. And, like, even if they're something where, like, it's hard, but you gotta you gotta do it, like cutting even if you try to cut the size of the government, those those are still human beings. They still have families. They still have pensions. They still have you know what I'm saying? And so, like, even if this companies even, like, nongovernment companies have to go through this. Like, it sucks. It sucks to have to make your company smaller. But, like, it has to be done for the health of the company, and you realize you've got excess where you don't need it or you can do things, you can trim it. But, like, those are people still. They're going to home to their three kids and their husband who got hurt in a work accident, hasn't worked for three years,

and a mortgage. You know what I'm saying? Like so I'm just I have a very high caution of one being really too naive about this or being callous about it. Yeah. Like, because it's like these are low these are humans. These are human beings. These are all and I maybe you don't care about that owl, but I let me ask you this question. Do you know enough about it? Have you do you know how important that owl is to the to the economy, to the to the, like, balance the eco balance in Oregon? I'm making this up. I don't have no idea about an owl in Oregon. I'm just saying that, it's easy to go. I don't care about that. Yeah. And the government's got its hands in way too many things, but I'm guessing that if you were pressed with it and you had all the information at your fingertips, you probably care and recognize that there's a lot more of those things you should care about that somebody has to, that you have you've had the you've had the privilege or the ignorance to to go, well, the government's I don't know. They're handling. It's getting taken care of. Yes. We we probably, on average, get three to five phone calls a week

from strangers asking for help paying their rent. Mhmm. K. That's just right now. Yep. Now let's say you multiply that times 700. Right. I mean, even right now, I I've honestly, I I don't even answer the phone anymore because because it's so painful to say no, and then they then they tell all the stories, and I'm like, I still don't have any money. I mean, we're not that big of a church. We don't have I mean, the biggest church can't do it all. Yes. Know, it's just we just don't have it. And we actually help a lot of people that we are connected with, but you're just calling off the street. I, you know, there's nothing I can do. There's really isn't. Yeah. And I think, man,

that's just gonna increase the number of people who are suddenly gonna lose their homes. Yes. And there's this whole domino effect thing. Like right now, rent's really high and and and space is low. Yeah. And so they're kicking people out now Right. So they could raise rent. Yep. I mean, we've had people own church like, oh, you gotta be out the end of the month. They're like, what do we do? Nothing.

But you're out. The lease is done. We're we're gonna release your apartment for more money, and you can't afford it. Yes. And and, you know, yeah. I mean, that's just our own little congregation here. Like, I couldn't help her or, you know, can't pay your rent for you. Yep. And, you know, so it it will take some digging deep to really help, to really do our job. Yes. Yeah, and I think maybe that's the preparation is that whatever it is, if you start personally,

and again, I'm fine with you thinking politically, this is probably right. It probably is, but like, if you think about how you might benefit from this type of economy, how you might benefit from these types of tax cuts and from the government getting smaller, are you prepared to go, yes, I can benefit from this and I fully intend to receive none of it. Right. Yeah. Because it has to balance somewhere and like, I would like to believe,

it is kind of a principle of the New Testament even. The early church, it's so weird, I've been struggling, praying and thinking through this probably for longer than I'd like to admit, but even more so over the last few weeks, is that like the

principle is like, hey, you don't work, you don't eat. That's that's actually still New Testament. That's not even like one of the old school ones. Like, we still say that. Yeah. And and the reality is is that that culture was not struggling with a lot of freeloading. They were raised understanding

that. I guess that's what was gonna say too that that Yep. It's gonna have to be either a slow process or a quick education, but these people who've been raised with, well, you owe this to me Yes. Are gonna learn real quick. Yes. That's right. Yeah. They gotta figure something out. But but there's like, this is where it becomes difficult is that, like, you know, the the way that the New Testament is talking about things, they're not having they're saying widows and orphans because these are people who can't actually care for themselves. There's not an ability societally to do it. And it's it's why people like, bring your friend out and he begs at the gate and people would give him money because they're like, oh, we get it. We get it. But like our culture is not there's not a

there's not a shame to it. And I what what I mean is is that like, I don't mean you're supposed to be going around like condemning everybody. What I'm saying, there's not an internal drive that goes, if I can work, then I will. If there's any way I can use any part of me to cover the burden that just living existing is on the world around me, I'm going to do my very best to do that. I don't there is an entitlement within

our culture that's big enough that, like, even if you rip the Band Aid off, like, what are you really regardless of whether you don't like their attitude, you don't like their work ethic, are you gonna look them in the eye two weeks later and go, I'm willing to let you starve to prove this point? Like, it's not so ease. God is more gracious than that in our stubbornness. And so even if you like it philosophically, I it's not really going to be an option for you, and you're gonna change people's behavior the same way we change gospel transformation. Like, it's not it's not an easy thing to balance. I totally get it. But just at the end of the day, this is where the we've it's easy to blame the government for getting bloated, but, like, it has it mops up.

It mops up all the stuff we don't wanna have to deal with because, like, at the end of the day, like, there's still all kinds of people without housing and without food Yep. And and and have to need medical care and, like, the someone's gotta cover it. And you may not in principle like it, but you don't have to look anybody in the face and go, no, we're not gonna take care, we're not gonna provide you food, you can die in the street. You shouldn't do that, but that means you don't have much extra resources. Like they're gonna go out to things like that and we can hope to change it culturally, but it's not gonna happen tomorrow to Dan's point. So I just, I worry

that what feels like a political victory becomes a spiritual defeat because we're not thinking about the impact to the thing that is actually the treasure in heaven, which is human beings and the relationship with Jesus and their ability to be alive to hear it and their ability to just like during, know I use this example a lot, but it's to me, just like during the bubonic plague and all those folks are getting saved because the people of Jesus are sacrificing themselves so that they may live even when their own families abandon them. So like a lot of times, this is what I I I don't I get irritated with people who derive that Francis of Assisi quote, but, like, like, spread the gospel if necessary, use words. Duh.

What he's saying is it's like, it should come out your hands, should come out your eyebrows, your elbows, your mouth, and all this stuff. And, like, that's gonna look like this, and I'm sorry that the entitlement of our culture has shifted. It feels more righteous to help the Afghani, totally, because you're like, these people are entitled. But, hey. I I they still need Jesus. This is still our backyard. You're gonna have to be open to what that means and how it bends your political and social philosophies in the reality of Jesus' kindness for us and allowing the rain to to, like, come on our injustice the same way we're going to do that in giving to people who are on the other side of what may be wise politically.

It made me think of another thing. Like that's the money, That's the resources stuff, and I think it's pretty easy, and I do I do think you should be praying on it. You prepare thy heart for your prosperity that may come to go to others. But where it also localizes some things. Things you didn't realize that the government was taking care of, like, I don't know, look around. Your schools are there's gonna be some there'll be cuts to things. There'll be, like, community centers and, not all that. Some of that stuff's run off of,

you know, their local taxes and so it's not a big deal, but, there's a lot of money that gets kicked in from the federal government to the state governments. And maybe maybe we don't like that because it's undue influence from a large federal government. If you don't take the money, you don't have to do the thing, but then again, don't get the money. And so anyway, I'd keep your ears out. I'd be praying on it and say, Lord, as this stuff may shift around me, help me be wise and open to it. Here's the other one though, is I do think you're going to start seeing, like I said, I think you're seeing it culturally too, especially with some of the protections or

acclimation to various genders and things like that. I think you saw that and I think that pendulum is starting to swing societally and I wouldn't be surprised if it's something that doesn't come up as part of either the disbanding of the Department of Education or just how

some of the government level things and policies react to some of those protections. But maybe we like that, maybe morally we're like, hey, think this was supporting confusion and

we're glad for the change. But I want you to hear that people who were feeling marginalized, misunderstood,

and on the exterior society had some level of belief that maybe that wasn't the case in the presence of these things, like regulations, protections. Even if you believe that it is for their benefits and for the benefit of society that these things start to pull back,

those are still human beings, they're going to feel even more so marginalized than they perhaps did before because at least felt like, well, I'm not sure everybody's there, but the government at least is is on our side. And I'm thinking about, like, discrimination policies and Right. Like, that that kind of stuff. And so that is the that is the work of Jesus. I'm just like, the consequence of that, even if it has a

broad policy benefit on the if you think about this of any law, any law that we go, hey, maybe we hey, it restricts abortion, and we you think that's good. It's a good protection of life. Doesn't automatically just eliminate women who are in difficult situations. You know what I'm saying? And so it's that kind of stuff where, like, they are they are opportunities for the church to be the church, for the people of the church to be the church, to love and serve,

and to now that if that gets removed, to double down on creating relationships and developing trustworthy interactions

so that people can understand like this, these are the heart of these types of things. This is the reality of who Jesus is and what he thinks about you because the, it's possible that some of those government facades, if they're, if I'm gonna think of them that way, won't be there anymore. And this is not a time that's not a declaration of it's not a holistic spiritual victory because it still leaves, like, folks who aren't seeing it the way we believe that Jesus sees it. Humans balance it. Right, and so again, for the same reasons,

I would think about that. What does it look like then to intentionally interact, engage, provide service to, provide whatever

things to folks who feel like government policies, they're going to be on the other side of and whether it be that, whether it be advocates for abortion in any given state, there's all kinds of things where like, I might look at it and go, yes, that reflects what I believe is morally correct, but it does not change the humanity that is impacted on the other side of it and what

we risk is celebrating a political victory and then just like failing the spiritual opportunity that exists. Like, this is the time to double down. He said, I know. I know you completely disagree with me on this. I still am going to care about you and serve you in that way. And so don't sell don't celebrate the wrong thing. Don't miss the thing that we're here for, even if we're okay, like these things are heading in a direction that you like and so

one also occurred to me that it's the time to double down. If you're not doing it now for whatever reason, like this would be the time to double down on it because it's going to feel even worse. It's going to feel like harsher and more ostracized and again, like this is this maybe maybe we don't even have to read that article but I think the broad sum up to me was you miss that when all you're thinking about is national.

Right. You miss a human. Frankly, this is where a lot of people flip following Jesus and then they flip on some social issue that I'm not sure Jesus is aligned with is because they meet a person and they meet a human being, it's not what they expected and they're like, well, maybe this changes the stuff, I just didn't know. And the miss there was not being around people who are different than you and hearing different ideas and understanding that and letting go of something that God said was true and looking at someone and going, I want this because I continue to believe it's what's best for you because what's God said was best for you. Like it's at, it all kind of leans on what God says is best here, but but they're just they get surprised.

They're like, oh, I I had we get this cartoonish version of people that comes from political commentary and, a limited Facebook feed and all this other jazz, and then you meet human beings and it felt like that it felt like you were misled and lied to and you probably were because you were given a cartoonish vision of what people are like and so anyway, whatever thing that is, I would be, don't miss it as a spiritual opportunity that has always existed, but I think will be exacerbated perhaps on even things that you agree with politically. Yeah. You know, I think we we get our impressions of people through the voices of spokesmen,

spokespeople on either side of any issue, and they give us the bullet points of what this person looks like and how they act and how they think and how they feel. And so that's where we develop that cartoonish figure. And then when you actually talk to someone who is in that category, you go, well, gosh, you don't seem at all like the person on TV said you would be. Right. And so it'd be kinda nice almost to get rid of some of that stuff and just go back to talking to people again, you know, the face to face and just as human beings. Yes. You know, and I think the church has lost that too because we quickly

jump on the side, whichever side we're on, and that's where we are, and then we're just, you know, don't trust the other side at all. Yeah. The person who has that label, even though they don't even know they're on a side, they're just like doing their life, you know, like, I don't know, I'm fishing, I don't know. Yeah. And so we do have to be careful and treat people as human beings and

come with them with the love of Christ and let God do his work. And I do think like that same thing exists heading the other direction. Like some, I was listening to somebody just given the most like comically

cartoonish version of a Christian that they, like, they were like, they're like this, this is, and like, it's a lot of it gets aimed at parents in some way or another. But I was listening to this and I'm like, I don't, like, I'm, and I'm trying to be honest. I'm like, I don't know. Are these fair critiques? And I thought, literally, I do not know anybody like this. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, not in my sphere, and I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm just saying like, I know for a fact in my sphere, I know no one that is behaving the way these people are talking about, and I thought it's possible they've never met a Christian. Yeah, right. Like, or one who's actually following Jesus. That seems also And

so, like, whatever without like, what we believe has consequences. Like, obviously the truth matters. Jesus is still king, but, you can hold those truths and then recognize the complicated,

grave, fallibility and frailty of human beings around you because you share it with them. Yes. And like, always, there's a phrase that a lot of people will use, Christians will use and they're like, I'm just another like beggar hoping for bread. And that part I've always, I think it's right, like technically right. I've been uncomfortable with it because I think again, it diminishes,

like God still loves you. You don't just don't suck all the time. Like, I'm just not sure it's good for us to be thinking that, but like, but the, the is right in that, how, if you looked at someone in such a way that like, either you made all these presumptions about them or just thought their life was not complicated like like yours is complicated. You're it's difficult to hold on to your beliefs. It's difficult to make decisions. It's it's especially if you don't have a grounding in Jesus. I I actually don't know what it's like to have to make decisions where I did not have at least a core set of principles that I could go back to that weren't established by me because then I have to trust, like, do I even the core ways of the principles of which I've decided internally to live my life that didn't if they didn't come from god, like, even those can't be trusted. I feel like I'd be floating around in the wind all the time. But, like, I I just we we we think of other people

poorly if you're not willing to, if you don't just look at them and go, boy, bet their life's difficult and complicated and it's hard to find the right decision and sometimes it feels like you only have wrong ones and the only thing that provides me some level of center is that Jesus is king and I know that, and then now I'm kind of starting, that's my go. And then I can branch out. If you don't have that, am terribly surprised that these

are difficult things and you don't even have like a moral of just some of the things where you have a moral orientation and sometimes it's hard to come to that same To walk with that. And so anyway, bottom line, it's just kindness and recognizing humans and being kind embracing

the reality that people are gray. And so if you cannot handle hearing national things without otherwise tossing that onto a bunch of humans around you, then you don't get to listen to it. And I would say that extends even at the state level magazines or newspapers or, like, Internet posts that reach more than 10 people. Like, if you can't take that in without automatically coloring all the various people around you, then you can't take it in. You're not allowed to use it anymore. You have to shake hands. You have to look people in the eye. You go serve at the food bank with people. You go find the most liberal church in the area and you go offer to serve at their food bank. I don't I'm just saying like,

it it reminds you that although your your principles are not gonna bend because the gospel doesn't, but you're gonna bring it with you because you believe the gospel changes everything. Right. You believe that the gospel is still good news when it comes to serving your community and providing medical care and bringing food to the food bank. And, like, what are you gonna go hide in the food pantry where they only people who agree with you are at? Like, go stand by a guy. You're like, boy, I just that guy. I don't know. We are different people. Okay. Great. Like, the the more you could embrace that while still holding on to what you know to be true because you are the truth bringer, the better the world gets and the more you don't get clouded up by stuff that's too big for us to be able to take in and use confidently.

That you're listening to life from the path. Maybe you have some thoughts on that. Maybe do you see other opportunities that, again, just let you know, do you have a base idea of what the Trump administration is considering doing? And you're like, okay, what are the implications for the church? For people. I yeah. That's why it's cautious. Don't I I don't mean like, hey. Wait for your elder board to do something. I mean, what are you gonna do, friend? Look around your community. What are gonna do? And then maybe you got some feedback for us. Hit us up on the Life From The Path complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Call or text. I'd be curious I'd be curious on your on your thoughts. What do you think exists out there? Where do I get it wrong? Where does BUVA have it wrong?

You know, whatever the thing. Dan's got it right, obviously. But, like, where BUVA and I might be incorrect, we'd like to hear about it. Alright. Great. Okay. Well, but tell me about your you you hit you hit up the witch of Indore, and it's it's giving you the business. So I I paraphrased a little bit earlier, and I did so incorrectly. I said that that the the witch was, like, worried that she saw a god, and that wasn't the situation. Right. So in in first Samuel 28, essentially,

Saul is asking his servants starting in seven. I won't read the whole chapter, but I'll I'll grab a a hold a couple of the verses that are important. So Saul says in in verse six, he says, when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him Yep. Either by dreams or by Urim or by prophets. Then Saul said to his servant, seek out for me a woman who is a medium that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servant said to him, behold, there is a medium at Endor. So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went. He and two men with him. And they came So cartoonish of a situation. And they came to the woman by night, and he said, divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name for you. And she basically goes, no. Don't you know that I'll die if I do that? The the Saul's basically said, absolutely not as a king. All the mediums and necromancer could die.

Saul says, no. As the lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing. Then she goes, whom shall I bring up for you? He said, bring up Samuel for me. Mhmm. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice and with and the woman said to Saul, why have you deceived me? You are Saul. The king said to her, do not be afraid. What do you see? And the woman said to Saul, I see a god coming up out of the earth. So I did kinda say it right. Not yeah. Yeah. Yep. So Yep. He said to her, is his parents? Blah blah blah. All this stupid stuff. Then Samuel said to Saul, why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? Saul answered, I am in great distress for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore, I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do. Then Samuel goes on to be like, you freaking idiot. Mhmm. Okay. Okay.

Taking a step back here. Yep. So I am now in a place where, one, I believe this is fully true. I don't think that this was a story that was meant to be like and then Saul had a dream where he went and spoke to this witch, like, believe wholeheartedly. Saul did go and and seek out the the wisdom of this this medium who then

summoned the the spirit of Samuel. Okay. And Samuel the prophet shows up. Yep. And then everyone around is like, yep. This is what happens when you when you are a necromancer or a medium, and Samuel's walking up and going, are you freaking kidding me? Like, why are you calling me to this? Yep. So that's a lot to take in. Yep. Because I I don't know if I've ever just sat in that for a moment went, okay.

Is that something I need to worry about now? And is that something where people are currently doing that and there is a a a a worry? Well, not necessarily a worry. Like, I know who's ultimately in control, but, like, people are evil and messed up. And are people currently doing this this stuff, and do I need to be, you know, mindful of that and make certain that I'm I'm being cautious of what mediums and necromancers exist? And then, also, I don't know what that says to me about what I believed at the death of someone

that their spirit can be called up by this woman who is a medium, and Saul just kinda comes walking or Samuel, excuse me, comes walking on up is like, why? Why have you called to me? Like, of course, the Lord's not gonna answer you. You're no longer his anointed. Like, you screwed up. Mhmm. But, anyway, what? Like, as as men who I know have preached this or are about to or have walked through this before and and have tried to take in the concept of, an Old Testament history piece and then what that means for us in today's day and age being in a post Jesus

place of of the holy spirit coming upon us and all of that stuff. Yep. What are there things that I need to be worried about here? Like, is it what am I help me understand this. I don't know if you need to be worried. Sure. You need to be aware that there is a very active and real spiritual world

Yep. And that there is evil and there is, you know, God, and and you just wanna stay on the right side. K. I mean, whether whether this was, you know, some is this something that's repeated, or I I I've always come from the side that what you see today with mediums and stuff is more demonic in nature,

not like actual people coming back from the grave, but Yeah. You know, demons who are familiar spirits that that Sure. You know, they know all the stuff. They can say what they want, and they know all the details and can speak the voice even, you know. So is it a worry? No. You're on you know, you're you're in God's kingdom. You're doing his stuff. I I I haven't even looked at this verse for so many years that I, you know, I can't even tell you what I originally, you know, studied on this. Sure. Yeah. But it appears to be the real deal. I mean, very well could be just a special situation where, like, obviously, it's in scripture, and and Yeah. God's teaching his people a a very important lesson.

But, know, as far as concern that, you know, someone from the bad past is gonna come back or someone haunt you or something, it's it's nothing like that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Or you're more thinking, like, also that could people be trying legitimately to get ahold of the text? So, ultimately, yeah. And I I totally agree with that. I think that that worry is probably the wrong way to put it because I don't Yeah. From a negative connotation, like, I'm not worried that someone is going to be able to be a medium, bring a spirit back, and they're going to have more power than my god. Yeah. Yeah. Not something I'm at all worried about. Because obviously a cultural thing, all the shows on ghosts and everything. Well, yeah. You know, everybody thinks there's ghost coming around. Figure out because, like, I and I I think that as I've as I've encountered or have have secondhand encountered through stories, people talking about the spiritual world and and the the concept of a realm where spirits exist, demons, whatever that that kind of thing. Right? Like, I'd I've never doubted that, and I've I I I certainly understand that there is a,

a a caution to understanding that exists, and it is it is wrong to be dismissive of all of those thoughts and just go, that's not a it's not a thing, and that's not right. Like, Jesus very specifically talks about it, and it interacts with that world and his disciples do as well. Right? And like that, I'm supposed to take in. But I it it reminded me of the the last time we had kind of an ask the pastor situation where it's, is this something that is a specific piece that is being called out here that that that I'm to take as an isolated story kind of thing, very similar to what we talked about the the the concept of the baptism and then

James and Pete or John and Peter coming down and, like, checking on that area and then laying hands on them and then spear comes on it. Right? Like, that's a that's a one time story that were to kinda take in isolation because there was a protection on the church as it was starting. Right? But, like and so I I don't think that I need to take that for all baptisms going forward that there's another step kinda thing. As I'm reading through this kind of story, the way that they're talking about it, at least the concept like Saul, specifically, has laid, consequences against people in the area who are doing this means that she's not the only one. Like, this is just this is a medium there. There's necromancers. That's the word that's used. I'm sure there's there's Hebrew behind that I'm that I'm probably missing that I could go in into and study, but from what I understand, that's that's interaction with the dead. Right? And very clearly, this this medium at Endor is able to

it's not her first time. It's not like it's not something that she was like, oh, I guess I'll give it a shot. She was like, no. I'm not going to do it because you'll kill me, and then he goes, he won't. She goes, okay. Fine. What name do you want? Right? Like, that seems to be just a Tuesday for this gal. And as I'm understanding that, the thing that hits me weirdly is is the this understanding of maybe it's it's a misunderstanding of even further on the concept of a heaven or hell and and where we would go

after we shed this mortal coil, if you will. And is it at a point where, obviously, Samuel has died, and is his spirit just able to be called upon by this medium, and and what does that mean, or am I to pull any meaning from that about what I'm doing now and what happens when I die? No. Yeah. I would be super given that it happens one time Sure. Yeah. I would be super cautious of developing any,

basically, you don't have a pattern. Yes. All you've got is one dot on a graph. Yeah. Right. Even if it happened twice, you have dots. Yes. That's all you got. Right. Yep. Totally fair. Be be like, what I think is the more what I think is the more reasonable what what I believe is right is that I I actually think she does this all the time, but it's all bogus. Just like it's bogus now. Sure. She she is she has no power to call a soul that you belongs to Yahweh Right. At her service. Right. Right. But what I do think is happening so so, like, Saul, I was I was I was actually thinking about this just on the drive in for I'm teaching through first Samuel.

And so but the one of the key questions is that, like, did god make a mistake by choosing Saul? And the answer is is no. No. Because what he did was like, they said, give us a king like the other nations. So God got them a king like the other nations. Like, the description we get of Saul remember, he didn't even know he stumbles into Saul into Samuel. Right? He didn't even know the man of god was, like, 20 miles south of him. And so he tried to and and, like, his servant suggests, hey. Should we let's what what do we have to give to the man of god, the seer, so he can tell us where these donkeys are at that had been lost? And, like, anybody who knows Samuel and follows Yahweh would go, you don't pay the you don't pay him. Like, what do we what do we do in here? And so and and and the description you get to Saul doesn't say he's a good leader. As a matter of fact, the first introduction is that he lost his he lost his donkeys. Like, he's not he he's not a good leader. He's just a tall dude. Yeah. Exactly. Which is like, how do you choose that? They always they describe George Washington that way. Yes. Like, he was a head taller than everybody else. And, like, it's it's why we're intimidated by Goliath and the Nephilim. It's like they're big. It's how the nations pick a king. And so what God does is go, okay. You want a king? I'll get first, I'm gonna show you Oh. The king that you asked for. Interesting. So even though it says God picked Saul, he did. Right. But it wasn't because he made a mistake. It's because he goes, I'm gonna I I I warned you about this. You said this is you're okay with it, and so I'm gonna show you what your king looks like. Yeah. The beginning of that story is like, here's all the warnings of why you should not want this king. Exactly. So then but then see see what happens then. And then ultimately,

as he picks David, when when we say that David is a man after god's own heart, it's because it's a king like like god wanted. Yahweh, I think Yahweh's okay with the king for these folks. It talks about it in Deuteronomy. It talks about it in the Psalms. Like, it's not anti king so much it is anti not the king like the rest of the nations have. What does a king look like that that should be for the nation of Israel? It should be a humble servant who is a steward of God's word

and using that to lead the people. Right? Right. That's what David is. And so it's not a mistake God makes. It's a God showing them what they asked for. This is what you actually get, and then here's what it looks like if I were to choose your king. If you were to ask me the right way or not even like the right way, but like you even when they asked for Saul, said, hey, Saul or Samuel, will you you go find us a king? They didn't say, hey. Petition Yahweh. Right. We would like a ruler over us because we're a bit unwieldy across all of our judges. They do they do effectively what is, like, the reverse American revolution as they

everything they everything we fought to get out of from England, these guys are one that They're like We're in for it. Put it in. We want the king. He gets a bunch of stuff. We gotta work his land, and it's not ours anymore. We're in. Seems fine. Like, hey. You're able to manage all your own stuff. It's more local. You just got local judges and stuff. We're like, nah. Nah. We want the big. Give us a central point of government. So now I say all that to say, now look at what's going on with him at this witch of Endor. God Saul continues to prove that he's not listening to Yahweh. Right. Over and over again. He he he does things with either without asking or without waiting. Like, he's not a good spiritual leader. He likes like, god continues to kind of he still says, you'll see this repeated, like, you're still my people. And so god continues to, like, work on their behalf. Mhmm. But Saul is just played out as the not a competent king. So but but think though, once things switch to David, which is now this is happening, Saul's not hearing anything anymore. He's he's got that tormented thing. Right? Like, he's constantly He gets the weird spirit put on him after David gets anointed in his house with Jesse and all of them. Yep. That's right. And so, like, it continues to demonstrate that, like, the person that you chose and they and in fact, the word Saul means basically, like, you you chose.

Oh. That that's what the name Saul is. It's like, you chose him. Idiot. It's a terrible name. But, like so so I think what this is like, why why why is this story important? Because, like, it doesn't actually further the plot No. Of anything. It continues to demonstrate. They it's included in the scriptures because it continues to show you how a human chose by human measure as a king will attempt to solve problems. Yeah. He keeps screwing it up over and over again. He's going to the wrong things. And he went to he goes to a necromancer that he he condemned. He expressly forgive forbidden Nethromancer.

Been times where he's done the right thing. Like, it's been slim, but there have been times where it's like, oh, you're gonna profane the name of Yahweh my god? Yep. Then I'm going to come and destroy you. Yeah. Then we get the beginning of the David story where another one shows up trying to profane the name of god, Goliath, and he just goes, well, I'm scared of that, and I'm running from that situation. Right. And David, run a young shepherd is like, nope. We're not dealing with that. Somebody get me a freaking get me something. I need five stones. Like, I'm taking care of the situation. So so I think I think the point more than anything else is that he shows up and, like, he no longer so so

Samuel's dead. Yes. Right. Right? And so who is god working through? David. Yeah. Saul does not have a he does not have a means to otherwise hear from Yahweh, and so he goes to this, and basically, I think this is god like, so I think god is allowing this. Sure. Not or Oh, yeah. Sure. And so because, like, again, it's not like the necromancer can control Samuel. Right. That's what I was trying to understand is because if this is such a practice that it's been banned in the area Yeah. And, like, obviously, Saul recognizes even if in it's in his folly, really. He recognizes that there is some power to be able to try and figure out maybe she can get me a spirit that can speak to me. Or perceived. Because, like, it's the same thing Sure. Right. Yeah. Think of it. It's the same thing that happens. You don't tear down the Asher Poles

or the the Dagon temples because you're worried about Dagon. Right. But you tear them down because people have misplaced. Yes. Right. Like they atrocious things there. Yes. And so I I think it's the same thing. This is like a lot of times people will, like they go to this today. In fact, I have a family member, like it's a bit distant, but like they went to a medium to try to talk to some deceased other family member. But here's the thing, if you are,

if you want it, there's all kinds of things that will convince you that the thing was happening. Right. Right. It's the same way that you can could be convinced that someone has a crush on you when they don't. You're like, oh, they dig on me, or they don't dig on me. Never experienced that. That's alright. I've never been in that place, man. We're easily manipulated. And so, anyway, what I think is happening here is I think he goes to this thing. He's trying a different a different outlet, and I think god actually meets him there. Mhmm. Oh, wow. The and then the thing that Samuel says is true. I think it's from Yeah. From Yahweh, and it's basically a final nail in the coffin is not the not the vision I want, but, like No. God is. It's the thing where it seals. As a matter of fact because you're gonna die tomorrow. Yeah. I'd have to check. He'd oh, yeah. He doesn't hear from Yahweh again. Right? No. This is it. No. This is the thing. Within the next three chapters, him and his sons are dead. Right. But now here's what we know. Now think about it from a narrative perspective. Why do I care about this part of the story? It matters for Saul because now I know Saul did not just die on the battlefield.

Wasn't just a human thing where he goes out there and he's like, oh, we didn't succeed. Oh, shoot. Right. Like, this was known. It was within Yahweh's control, and Saul knew it. Totally. And now the people of Israel knew it and say this was the ultimate end to when you asked for a king and I gave you what you asked. Wow. So, like, it so it's It's important to pull all of that out, obviously. Yes. Right? Yes. And look at it through the entire narrative of the story. Just as much as you would do the same for David, right, as you would do for Saul and all the things that happened within David into second Samuel as as you take in these yeah. I guess I I I never thought of it like here's the deal. I'm realizing so much more nowadays as I'm going through and reading my bible that I have been reading my bible in a vacuum more often than not. Yeah. And and I've been doing myself a disservice to my understanding of narratives by going chapter to chapter or verse to verse and going and not taking any step back and going, what happened in the chapter before this? Yeah. Like, what is what is the larger narrative that I am to know if this is five thousand years later or whatever you wanna look at? Right? Like, what am I to know about the character of god based off of this little piece? Yep. Because I I I'm convinced

that I'm not finding any real doozies in any any story that I've read that it's like, oh, that's a weird thing that has nothing to do with anything else I've been reading. Right. Because I I mean, admittedly, for years, I read my bible and went from one moment to the next of, like, what? That's weird. Yeah. Well, that's a weird thing right there. Oh, that was weird. I'm gonna take that back. Yeah. Rarely ever do I step back and go, like, how do I take this in through the entire perspective of the narrative that I've gotten? How often do I read the beginning of a scroll in light of the end of the scroll before it? Yeah. And it changes everything. Yeah. And that's kind of the point is that so so, like, even then, you know, the that the that story happens in chapter 28. The context for that starts in chapter eight. Yes. Right. You got like and so here here's one of the key things, just like a hint on how you if you find something wacky in scripture, one of the things you can ask yourself and you're not gonna know you're not gonna know the answer, but the thought exercise is good, which is why is this even here? Sure. Yeah. Because if you're Yahweh,

do you go you know what they need is that wild ape of a necromancer story just to put them in the old. Right. Right. There's there's no reason to include that, and you know you're getting limited stories. Right? Like, we're getting thousands of years over, you know, a good 120 chapters across books. You're not getting everything, and so why the heck is this here? Why would you tell this story? And so by the time you go back and go always telling the story, because it becomes clear that God has completely cut off Saul,

that this and that his death, not only is Saul aware of it, but now the people of Israel know that God was, like, this was this was on purpose. Sure. He was going to die. And then you go, well, necromancer part isn't actually even all that important. No. It it is what happened, and it's it's certainly interesting Sure. Yeah. The undead Samuel. Right. But, like, is that where like, is that what he's intending you to focus on? Yeah. Right. No. The key part was the thing that, like, that's why this is here. Yes. Exactly. So Why is Saul in the circumstance that he's in? What has led him to this? What is Yahweh doing through

the circumstance that led to a Saul in the first place? What happened with Israel that even led them to a point that they were asking for a king in the first place? Right? Like, there's there's 50,000 questions to ask of the the small subsection that you're snapshotting right now Yeah. And then taking step backs and looking into that. And it's interesting that you say that from the perspective of, like, it's such a it's such a a a long story that we're only getting very small snapshots of. I I came to that spearhead very recently again with Genesis one through 11. Mhmm. Like, literally,

you get Genesis one through 11 beginning all the way through to, like, Abraham, and there's barely anything in there. Like, that's literally barely anything. And I I was talking about I gave a very high level summary to the the people that have been coming to our house on Sundays, of Genesis one through 11 just to kinda set some basics of the Christmas season and to kinda talk about what we're talking about with Jesus in the first place Yeah. And why we need him. And as I I wrapped up Genesis one through 11, somebody goes, wow. So that's the old testament. And I went and I couldn't help myself. I went, no. No. That's the that's the first 11 chapters. And they went, wait. What? I was like, yeah. That's the first 11 chapters of 50

in the first scroll, and and that's one of five that we call the Torah, and that's that's one of, of, like, 39 that we call the old testament. Like, this is this is nothing of what I just talked about. And so it's funny to take a step back and then and find myself in that too Yeah. Of of making certain that as I I look at that, and it's very important. What am I focusing on here? Why is this a focus? Like, what is what is the the point? God didn't tell any random one offs to go, hey. Surprise them with this one. Like, really throw them off and and scare them or or surprise them about my character and then never explain it and talk about this thing again. That way they leave it and go, what the heck? Yeah. And then just move past that kind of thing. Yeah. Because that's definitely been the way that I've read my bible historically. Has been, well, that was weird, god. Okay. Moving on. And I've totally and I I've done myself a disservice in that. So Yeah. And it's a lot of that happens just because like, think of how you set up your bible reading programs. Yes. Especially, like, you got ones that kinda bounce around. You're like, well, couple chapters here, a couple chapters here. And, like, it's not wrong, but, like, it does sometimes do you a disservice because you're like, I took in these two stories and that freaking witch. And then you're like, I don't I don't know what to do with that. But if you would if someone told you think of it like you talking about Genesis one to 11 and, like, you're looking at people in the eye. Yeah. Right. If someone told you that story of Saul and David and just gave it to you Yes. Like a narrative that took him about sixty five minutes to walk through,

you wouldn't like, it's interesting. Like, the bush is totally interesting. Yeah. Right. Right. But, like, you would see, oh, okay. I see how this thing is arcing down. And here's where we get we'll let I'll go on too long for this, so I won't I'll make this real quick. But, like, we get hesitant about this because we've we've grown somehow I think this is, reformation type of stuff, but we've gotten uncomfortable with the Bible writers as narrative storytellers.

Yeah. Like, we're treating them like newspapermen. Like, they just wrote down the stuff that God put in their mind or that they saw and that their job was to do that, but they're not, and you know they're not. Like, you've read poetry. Poetry is definitely not that. You've you've seen the gospels, and you've seen the gospel writers move things around. Mhmm. And you're like, well, what the heck? This is untrustworthy. It's not untrustworthy. It's just they're not trying to tell you just, like as if they were an eyewitness with binoculars sitting on the sides. There are there are the the thing peels like an onion. Here's the true things that happened. If you look at them in this order, if you recognize that these are connected, you learn even more. Absolutely. You get even deeper than that. And and if and so, like, the stories that we get, the stories that we don't get, like, these are intentional things. And, like, if you believe

that the word of god is inspired by the holy spirit and that the words we have matter and that the translations are largely like God is making sure that you're getting something pretty consistent across all the languages, then why would you have a problem that he uses a narrative arc? Sure. You wouldn't like, God is not capable. Like, his limitation is our fact gathering limitation, or am I not surprised that the same artistic God who possibly sings the world into existence has got some narrative flare and and tell and it retains me something that I can I get to see a true set of information

and then an even bigger true set of information because of how it's written? And so like, I don't have a problem with this at all, but I used to. You catch me when I'm 22, I'm like hardcore going, look, I don't know much. I'm probably not even following Jesus very well, but I know I'm supposed to say every bit of this stuff is infallible and every word of this is true, and my truth would be like like the way I would say legal statements. Yeah. Sure. Right. And it's it's too narrow. Ends up being wrong because it's too narrow. Yeah. And so it takes time to get used to that. It does take time to get used to that that it's okay because it feels like what you're giving up is like, oh, you mean it's not the exact newspaper truth? The

gospel tells me lies. It doesn't, but it's because we're too narrow on what we believe God and how God can speak. That's the risk. The book of Samuel is what broke that for me. Like, the book of Samuel's that way because, like, there's it's talked about later on in in the second part of Samuel. Samuel's dead. And, like, there's parts of it where it seems like it's from the mouth of Samuel. Yeah. And so it can't possibly be that way. Right. And so if you're trying to take it in like a history book no. That's the wrong way to put it. If you're trying to take it in like a snapshot of a of a of a like a videotape of what's happening in the moment Yeah. It fails. But, like, if you look at it to go like, oh, but how how am I to understand the character of Yahweh, how he interacts with his people, and then how he sets up to fulfill the promises of the covenants that he makes? And I can take that into perspective when I look at the book of Samuel across

both movements, if you will, whatever you wanna call them. Right? Yep. And and it that it it's hysterical you say that. Literally, Samuel is what broke that for me, and I had to go, oh, crap. That's not the way that I can read this. Yeah. It's not. You know, what's interesting is it's very likely that the writer, who finishes Deuteronomy, because we know Moses doesn't write unless Moses didn't. Right. Yes. So it's not it can't be Moses. And, like, it tends to be like, well, what happened to Moses? He died. Like, what did he Right. He died. Someone else kept writing the story. What do I care? It's not the book of Moses. Right. And there's not a man named Deuteronomy. And so,

you know, and it's actually likely that the same like, with the verge the as as we trace the text, that you likely have kind of the final again, I don't have a problem with editing either Yeah. Like or compilers. Like, people who are compiling the story. But, like, the end of Deuteronomy up through, like, first, second Kings is also probably the same people. Mhmm. I don't think it's probably a guy. It's probably a group of people who are, stewards of the stories.

And, you know, you've got Deuteronomy, you get through Judges, you got Ruth Samuel, first Samuel, second Samuel, first Kings, second Kings, chronicles probably. Like, this is probably the same group of people who's like finally pulling all these things together because they're stories that people are just telling each other. You didn't have to write it down. Yeah. And so even then, you could you can keep moving these boundaries out, and then you can actually see similar themes towards, like, Moses' last blast through Deuteronomy up through Judges, then through the Chronicles and Kings and first and second Samuel. Like, themes are not different. No. And there's

things within the way that the language is that, I don't know, it could be different people, it could very well be the same group of people. Sure. But like, I just, if I trust Yahweh on stories are true and the text is good, then I can trust Him with grander narratives and it'll take a while but I do very much encourage you to get on board with that because then what it does is it helps me go, the witch is interesting,

but I'm less or that what happened to Moses? I'm less likely to get stuck on that stuff. Sure. Yep. Because it sits in a context in which I'm like, actually, that's not even where I'm supposed to be focusing. I'm just like a curious fella. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Like yeah. And that's the thing. Like, as I was reading this, I recognize that I'm taking in the the the story that is the continuation of Saul well, the continuation and ending of Saul's story starting in chapter eight all the way through. Yep. And really starting in chapter one, to be honest about, like, the setting up of of why we even have a saw in the first place. Right? And then before that, right, all the way through to in the beginning, god created the heavens. Yes. Yeah. But, like and and I'm understanding that, like, there's very obviously, there's been an anointing of Saul that happens, and then things get screwed up because he was he was not the dude and had had messed things up. There's an anointing of David, and then very specifically, he does all the right things that Saul failed at,

not 15 chapters prior. Not really eight chapters prior. Mhmm. And so, like, as I'm taking in all those pieces, and and I totally fell into this, and I'm glad we pulled it back out of, like, understanding that as I look at the the the medium at Endor and take that in, I'm not looking at, oh, no. What am I supposed to know about mediums now in the spiritual world and all this different stuff of, like, am I gonna get called back someday after I'm dead kind of thing? And then more I look at it of, like, oh, what's the actual story and, like, what is being highlighted here by the fact that Saul, who was once meant to be the anointed king, that that was that even to the point where David's like, can't kill the anointed, and then laments after his death because he was the anointed king. It's the same dude that screwed all this up that was the hurl of the spear at his at his buddy and his son kinda guy, and then holy crap. Yeah. Taking the story of Saul. It's important to take a step back and go. I need to look at the medium of Endor not as just this very important character in this specific thing. How am I to understand the story of Saul and David in this time and then even greater? How am I supposed to understand the identity of my my creator and how he interacts and how he sets up things that he says he's going to do. Yeah. Yeah. And the the the the last thing I'll say is that don't don't feel like don't skip over those, though. Nope. Because one of the things that those those really quirky stories do is they actually help you remember the other things. Uh-huh. Like, even if you if you if I was reading as a kid, the thing that would stick out to me is this witch. Oh, totally. Right? But if if if I use the opportunity and kinda figured out, I was like, oh, okay. This is the lynch pit. Like, this thing brings together a bunch of things. Mhmm. I'm gonna forget all that. It's just the way your mind connects information. If you can come back two years later and you remember the witch, you'll remember the other things that go with it. Yeah. And so And the the writers and compilers knew that. Yeah. Like, yeah, interesting pieces. You're like, oh, like, Goliath is another interesting story. Like, there there's plenty of valor, like, valor of David type of stuff. There's a reason we're talking about this giant in this way because it sticks with you. Yes. And then if you can just take just take one moment, figure out how why how this is progressing, this broader narrative,

you get the advantage of one knowing that, and then two, it'll just your mind connects things. You'll keep the rest of the things with you. So it's okay to know the quirky stories. It helps tie things together. It's just it's just how your mind works. Totally sure. Alright. You listen to life for the path. I tell you what. I think we're gonna have do advice because the show tarries forth. So we're gonna pick up the the lament of the spiritual leader, and maybe all all the spirituality is local maybe for next week. Alright. Dear life from the path,

several members of my husband's family let us down badly by not attending our daughter's wedding. They had various work and other family obligations near the date of our event. Save the date cards had been sent out six months prior, but we were apparently lower on their priority list. I expressed to my husband my desire to not send holiday cards this year because I no longer feel good about these family members. Then while I was traveling for work, he bought cards, printed a letter with pictures, signed it from both of us, and sent it to most of his family and some of our mutual friends. Good for him. The first the first I heard about it was from a friend thanking me for the card and pictures a month later. I discussed it with my husband and got an apology, but I'm still shocked and saddened. What do you think?

I don't I don't under like, there's one thing to say, hey. I don't really feel like it. There's another thing to be antagonistic because someone else did. Yeah. I she's lying. It's not that she doesn't feel like it. She wishes to exact some sort of revenge to make them understand how much they hurt her in their behavior. Sure. And she was using the Christmas cards as a very petty and naive way of going about it, and her husband ruined her pettiness. Yes. And she's mad. There was an emotional debt that she felt like she was owed in that moment to stay angry about,

and her husband robbed her of that in her arrest. It wasn't even her wedding. No. It was their daughter's. Right. Right. Is is it come on. Oh, and right. It was because they didn't come to the wedding. Yeah. They they had to do other things like work. Okay. I mean, sounds lame, but here's the thing. Here's there's something naive about what I'm going to say, and I think I recognize it runs a risk of being self fulfilling, and you don't ever press yourself to potentially change or be better.

But but I am continually coming back to the thought that, like, oftentimes, the things that are I'm a say it wrong before I fix it. The things that are supposed to be will be, and that's not quite what I mean. But what I mean is is it like think of it if you're I've got young I've got young younger or young adults, growing teenagers growing into adults. And often think about, you know, what does it look like to try to date or find a fella in these days? And then I think to myself something that I did not

believe, I think when I was younger and I wish I had, I mean, my life would have been bolder, but it's like, you know, the right type of person will respond to you positively if you try to gain their affections or friendship. Sure. And but if they act negatively, well, then They're not the right type of person. They've done you a service. Right. And and so, like, that's true for for friends. It's true for it's true for all kinds. Even for work. Like, let's say you wanna go apply for a job that, like, you know, is above your grade, but you're gonna give it a shot. Like, let's say you don't get it. Okay. Well, either you don't wanna work for those people because they dislike you and that's why they didn't choose You're not qualified. Well well, good. You weren't put into a situation. Crappy situation. Right? Or you were qualified, and for some other goofball reason, they didn't choose you and, like, well, they seem like duplicitous people. And so, like Thankful for every job I didn't get. Yeah. And and so it just the more I like, here, it seems very neat and tidy because it feels like nothing can ever go wrong, and it's not true that it can't go wrong.

But, like, wrong by what measure? It would seem wrong that that you were the best qualified person and didn't get the job except for the type of people who would not choose you for that reason you don't wanna work for. Right. Exactly. And so Yeah. Either side of that equation, you are being served. Right. So it seems too simple, I think. There's a flaw in it somewhere. But, like, I think about this for the wedding. You invited them to the wedding, and they didn't come. Well and and you think the reason was stupid. Well, isn't it then just fine that they didn't come? Why would you want those type of people at the wedding? Yeah. Sure. But you're obviously not that close to you where you would have had a conversation. Right. We sent you a steak six months ago. I ordered steak for them. Yeah. I mean, it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next time you do a wedding, make sure you put how much money it was for each plate as you send the same thing. Bill. Yeah. We're sending you $65

a plate. You should really come. Yeah. So, I mean, so my broader so maybe the broad advice is that, like, go like, just take chances in life. And for the most part, I think it's gonna hold that things are gonna work out the way that they should have worked out. You don't have to like it, but you I would be cautious about how much time you spend not liking it. Sure. Yeah. Because for for reasons either outside of your control, they didn't go the way you wanted, or somebody revealed their true colors and, like, okay. Now you know about it. So

I it's it's too pragmatic, but I I do actually think this would work here, and so let it go. Like, don't be just give up being mad at them. Yeah. And within your marriage, talk to your husband about this. Because apparently, you felt so strongly about this that it was just one of your deepest, most most, like like, viciously held convictions that you were never going to send these cards to these people again. And your husband went, well, she's away. I'm just freaking doing this because it meant a lot to him to send them. Yeah. Or potentially, he's just like, screw her. I'm doing this. Either way Yeah. You should probably have some deep conversations with your husband about this and figure this out. Yeah. And not not approach this as in you're the right, he's in the wrong. But maybe maybe find some spots to figure out why it what happened happened so that he can get a chance to talk to you about how he felt about it. Yeah. And and and you gotta be honest about what a wedding is. Right? I mean, it's really meaningful to you. It's your daughter. It's your, you know, everything. But, like, I I I went to one of my cousin's weddings. My other ones, I don't I don't remember if I did or not because I was younger than them. But, I mean, you're taking an entire day at least. You you know? It's it's not like a short thing to just go in there and do this, you know, especially if you're family. You don't just go and do the ceremony and head on out. Right. So you're you're it's considerable amount of time and effort and energy and and commitment. And and and and if you're not that close, you're you're like, you know, I could make money here. I gotta make my house payment this month. You know? There's just other things to do.

It's I don't know. Some of the best gifts I've gotten in life have been not been invited to weddings where I'm like, that just opened up my whole weekend, you you know? And and I'm okay with that. I mean You should send them a thank you card, man. Oh, I want you to know how much I appreciate you. And I didn't have to buy you again. And have to lie and show up to this wedding and eat your gross food. Oh gosh. Thank you so much. This gal, he goes she's she's just getting too Yeah. She's really putting too much weight on this thing. It's just life. It's just life. Yep. Yep. Agreed. Let it go. Alright. Secular says, although you didn't want to send holiday cards to the relatives who skipped your daughter's wedding, apparently, your husband didn't feel the same way. He was entitled to do what he did. Repeat after me. A wedding invitation is not a command performance. Now let it go. There you go. Wow. Good. That is not the kind of thing I was expecting here Yeah. From secular. That's a surprise. Alright. One more? Yeah. Let's do one more. Dear,

laugh at the pear. My boyfriend and I received a generous gift card from my brother and sister-in-law to a restaurant we love. Next week, the four of us are getting dinner going to dinner together there. My question is about the etiquette of using such a gift card. Should we use it that night or plan not to use it? If we use it and there is excess, should we pay towards my brother's bill? I know my brother won't be bothered or offended either way, but I'm curious about the correct way to handle this, and I'd appreciate your advice. What? Just use it like a normal debit card. Brother and sister-in-law gave girlfriend, boyfriend a

gift card to their favorite place. Now all four of them, recipients of the gift card and givers of the gift card Yeah. Are going to that restaurant next week. Yeah. Receiver of the gift card is wondering if they should use that gift card on the meal or if it feels weird to do that because it's a gift that you got from the people. What do you mean? And if you have more leftover from your dinner, should you apply the rest of the gift card to your brother and sister in law's meal? What's the move? And, apparently the meals. The brother do will not care. Yeah. Yeah. I I I cannot tell you with the people I'm with what what they use to pay for their meal. I don't care. Right. If it is a you know, oh oh, that's a Discover that you got. Brother's watching you or maybe your sister-in-law is watching to see if you use the gift card that they do. Maybe someone else gave me a gift card too. You should never accept a gift from them again. Yeah. Because they're the kind of people give the gift and go, are they gonna use it back on us, or what are they gonna do? That seems weird. I don't

How far removed are you from any thoughts in this social situation that this is just flabbergasting you right now? Flabbergasting. I don't understand. Somebody gives me a gift card to McDonald's. Yes. Mickey D's. And then you're going there next week. Hey. Let's go to Mickey D's next week. Sure. What kind of person would go, hey, man. You being lame and using that gift card I gave you at this McDonald's? To this place that you love And then is why we got it for you? And then goes, hey, bro. Do you use all that up? Why don't you help a man out and use that gift card I gave you to help cover some of my meal? Like, this all seems, like, ridiculous. Yeah. Why would you even think that? Yeah. It seems like admittedly, it seems like this is the insanity of the person who received the gift card. Yes. Because they're even willing to admit that their brother probably won't care about the situation. Of course. It will. When I was reading that, I was I was wondering if it was gonna end. My brother probably won't care about this, but my sister-in-law definitely will judge us for this, blah blah blah. But it never ended there. It was just my brother probably won't care about this, but am I thinking this this incorrectly? I was the correct way. Yeah. I think I would do the exact opposite. If you showed up and started to use cash, I go, dude, why don't you use that gift card we got your name? You go through it already. You idiot. Yeah. Like, what are you doing? You a gift card and then invited you to this place so you could immediately use it so that it wasn't just sitting in your billfold for the next six six years. Excuse me. Weird. Yeah. I don't yeah.

You cheap toadstool. I can't believe you used that gift card I got you. I don't understand this at all. Alright. Go ahead. Hit me. The secular says, if my mail is any indication, some folks become offended if someone they are splitting the bill with uses a gift card rather than a credit card or cash. That that's why it never hurts to ask that question of the person who is joining you before going to the restaurant. It's not even helpful advice. It means nothing. Oh, just ask the brother. Yeah. Do you mind if I use this? Under the perspective that, like, some people don't like it when someone who is splitting the bill with them uses a gift card. Why? Who knows? Could care less how you pay for it. Okay. People. Yeah. Stop it. Just stop it. Worry about your own affairs. Stop worrying about everyone else's affairs if this is the way that you're gonna worry about their affairs. Okay. If you're gonna worry about someone else's affairs to go, I hope they have enough cash. Maybe I should just cover the bill because I love them. That's a good way to think about things. But if your worry is, oh, they better not use a gift card. You shut your mouth, and you change your ways immediately. Yeah. The only reason I would ask that is so if some doofus that I may go out to dinner with goes, yeah. I'm not really comfortable with that. I would know not to go out to dinner with them. Never going to dinner with you again. I have a gift card. I'm gonna use it. Yeah. What? Yeah. I've never once thought I shouldn't use a gift card in front of someone because they might judge me. I hope that person judges me back to the earlier conversation so that I can then receive the service of me never having to go out to dinner with them again. What is there to judge? It's not a poverty card. No. What what Right. Exactly. I'm not using my food stamps on Alaskan king crab. I don't Like, that's not the situation. Here's the deal. If I see you pull out a food stamp card and I see you buy $39.99

a pound Alaskan king crab, I'll judge you more for that than you using a gift card to a joint that I bought you the gift card to. Yeah. Yeah. What? This is wrong. You should move. Chile. Chile wants you. Go to Argentina. America's had enough. Alright. You listen to Live From The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us tonight. I very much appreciate it. If you got feedback for us on the show, hit us up on the Live From The Path complaint line, (515) 517-0085. Call or text. It's Bob Eisenhower. Live from the Path. Complaint line, (515) 517-0085.

We appreciate any any feedback you have from the show. Actually, we heard from our friend Marshall this week who was digging through the archives. A brave soul. A brave soul going through the archives. And hit a landmine that I predicted. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's true. Bubba was proven right. Dan had said some Dan type of things in this episode. And Bubba had said someone's gonna listen to this, and it's gonna come up. And it did. Good old good old Marshall hanging out. Yeah. I believe I said at the time that they'll have to make sure they understand it in context or it'll it'll sound much worse. It's gonna sound bad. Yeah. That was it was the dumpster fire episode if you want to. If I remember correctly, we were talking about investing in marijuana or and just all kinds of stuff. That was a wild one. It was yeah. I remember from then on, I decided I will never run for political office because someone will find that. That's how you know it was a good episode. Dan's like, I guess I gave up my political career after this one. Dan's not do not elect Dan Hudson.

Alright. Anyway, thanks for hanging out with us. We'll see you you know, Christmas time and New Year's is dicey. We'll see when the shows come out. Maybe if I don't if we're not here, we still got another, I think, five years worth of shows that I have to get posted back. And so, if we don't do fresh shows, maybe I'll start trying to fill that back catalog. But, in the meantime, be faithful to the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.