Live from Lowe Street Studios, downtown Des Moines, you are Live from the Path. And thank you for joining us. You're listening to Live from the Path on Des MoinesAmplified.com. Boy, it's breezy in here. Mike has a very foul look on his face. He was ridiculously loud in my headphone. I didn't. It was totally unintentional. Like the king of the bins showed up out of nowhere. Denver the Last Dinosaur. You ever seen that show? What is it? Denver the Last Dinosaur, remember? That's not a real show. Yeah, it was a cartoon. It had a dinosaur. Denver, the last dinosaur. Denver, no? He's my friend and a whole lot more. I'm what our kids used to watch. Land Before Time. Oh. Then like… One through ten. Yeah, every six months they come out with a new one. That's not the same. It's not. I don't know Denver. Denver? It was a cartoon. Denver the Dinosaur? Yeah. How did you make that up? He was on the USA Cartoon Express.

You're a liar. Right after Great Babe. Prove it. Well, I remember Great Babe. I loved Great Babe. Of course you did. I don't know. Denver the Dinosaur. No. He was the last dinosaur. I don't know. Evidently. Didn't work out well for him. Maybe that meteor got him. I think Daniel's smoking hot. Smoking. I got it coming. Thank you. All right. Anyway, thanks for joining us. Did you say I'm smoking hot? It's hot. Yeah, but not in a good way. It is kind of hot in here. No, no. It's hot. No, thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. Anyway, thanks for…

It was a pretty strong start. Thanks for joining us. You are listening to Live from the Path on Des Moines Amplified.com. You are in the studio with Mike Foost. I am Ben Foost, your host. To my right in the bright red shirt, applying for the crossing guard's job is Dan Hudson. And with us in the studio tonight is Rick Lee. How are you doing, Rick? I'm doing very well. Thank you. Good. Good. Very nice. What? Why do you keep looking? Why are you always looking at me? Every time we start the show, you're looking at me. Because every time we start the show, the voices are way too loud, and they go… And then you look at me and go, what? What's wrong? And it takes 10 minutes to fix it. Yeah, but I can't fix it until I know what's the problem. Every time I look at you, that's the problem. I know. It's never anything different. Okay. I'm not concerned with your underwear choice or what you had for breakfast. What did I have? What did you have for breakfast?

I don't know. Oh, no. No. Oh, I was supposed to have an oatmeal bar, but I did not. I had chocolate milk and a sausage croissant at the Casey's. And a what croissant? One of those sausage croissants. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's it. Did you know that Fairway is donating chocolate milk for our Roof Project on Saturday? No, really? Yeah. Is it Robert's? It's like their brand, which is made by AE. Oh, it's solid. Okay, I'm excited. It's necessary. Oh, that's what they say. Yeah. It was specifically requested. Have I told you Ben's chocolate milk story? No, but I bet it's going to be good. Okay, this is solid. So Ben does not drink Robert's chocolate milk at all. He hates it. Absolutely hates it with a passion. And so he'd gone out of tact lately where he'd been trying it every once in a while because it had gone on sale.

And so he gave it a shot and he always hated it. And so finally he bought himself a full gallon and decided, I'm going to drink it, you know. And so I knew he had done this and invested in this. So I bought soy chocolate milk and then traded him out. Poured one in a different container and then poured the soy chocolate milk in the Robert's container. And he comes home from work and he pops off the lid and takes a big chug of it. Ooh. And he goes, he goes, Robert's, you screwed me for the last time. I mean, he was mad. He threw the whole thing away. That's nice. I said, why don't you try that soy chocolate milk we got? He goes, you know, it's not AE, but it's not bad, I guess. He was very upset. That is awesome. He was very upset. Actually, there's a number of pathetic chocolate milk stories that I have. I caught myself one time, and this has been like four or five years ago, where I opened up the fridge and something had gotten in front of the chocolate milk. And I caught myself saying, I looked at it and the phrase was something to the extent of, what is going on here? Like, what has come of this world? You know, I found myself really upset that I had to move this juice or whatever that was in the way. Exactly. Like, you're the only one who really matters. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, I recognized that was ridiculous at the time I thought it, but it

scared me because that was my first reaction is, you know, what's going on here? It's very comfortable to say, I'm going to buy Ben's dinner back in the day because it was just chocolate milk. Yeah. That's true. Very cheap. Yeah. It was pretty sweet. That's good to know. You can buy chocolate milk. You can buy, what is it, a liter? A liter of chocolate milk for just about the same price as you can buy a 20-ounce soda. Yeah. That's outrageous. Yeah. Hmm. Soda is mostly water. Yeah. Milk is mostly milk. Mostly. Hormones. Milk. What does it mean when they pasteurize it? What does that mean exactly? Isn't that like a heating process? They boil it. Yeah. Yeah. They get it heated up, kill all the bacteria.

It's like under pressure, isn't it? Then they cool it back down. Well, I saw… It kills things. I saw a chocolate milk that came out for kids and it said ultra-pasteurized. Ooh. It's mega hot. Mega hot? Very hot. Yeah. Nuclear hot. I don't understand. That doesn't sound like it's for children. That still weirds me out, as a matter of fact. How come he has three ears? It's that new chocolate milk. Jerry loves chocolate milk. He's welcome. If he grew a chocolate milk arm, that'd be handy. What would you do with a third arm? Hmm. I think… Well, this may not bode well for me, but I think I'd shoplift. What? That does not bode well. Yeah. You would what? I'd shoplift. Shoplift.

Oh, shoplift. Why would that be an advantage? I think you could easily distract them. Like, you go… You go, hey, shopkeep. And wait, both your arms, and then you're stuffing jujubes in your back pocket. I'd hope I wouldn't do that. I would change it. But it'd be very hard not to shoplift with three arms. What was the first thing that came to your mind, though? Yeah, I was going to say, that kind of concerns me. Well, obviously, I'd shoplift. Yeah, it was. Mine was… I could handle all my kids at one time. Well, like if you had to pick them up and get them to the car, because it would cause them trouble? Yeah, so you can get them all. Otherwise, you're outnumbered. Now, see, you didn't say, high-five all my children at once. You had to reprimand them. I guess I just said, I could beat all my kids at one time. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Of course, I immediately thought I would just pray 50% better. Well, 50%. Actually, I think if you put a third arm in there, you're officially a Hindu.

Hey, you know, you could be upset with your head in your hands and still comfort yourself. It's okay. It's all right, Daniel. Boy, that third arm is the best. He's always compassionate towards me. What do you two guys do? Nothing. Like a bunch of clowns. You're with us. Puppet hands, I call them. You also could be a beast of a foosball player. Ooh. That's the problem with foosball, is having to try to make the shift over to one of the extra tanglers. How would you type? Like a maniac, no doubt. No, I think you'd have to leave the third hand out of it. He'd bog it down. You'd have one going. Hey. Yeah, you can have him thinking about it. Actually, that reminds me. You can shave while you're driving. This third hand is business. I like this. He might be wily, though. I want some of that chocolate milk. Let me tell you this. One thing I noticed is that you can't keep the middle of your tongue.

Like, go home and do this tonight, right? Or, for those of you that are watching, try this before you go to bed. Try to brush your teeth. And be cognizant of what your tongue's doing. I'll give you $20 if you can keep him to one side the whole time you're brushing. Like, he's a maniac. Did you ever try to keep it out of the way? Like, when the dentist is working, I'm like, okay, come on, tongue, stay over here. And I'll just go, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh. Whatever. I'm not buying this. This is my house. Just trying to phase him out. It's the most wily instrument on your body. I mean, you cannot keep it under control. As soon as you go brushing your teeth or you stick something in it from the dentist, I mean, he's over there. As much as you want to keep him under control. That's why they numb the tongue. I was wondering why they did that to the dentist. They do it because you've got to settle it down. Huh. They always shoot the tongue, and it's always because they don't want trouble with it. It's active. Yeah. It's very active. Oh, Pats, that's terrible. Why would you say such a thing? Do I want to know what Pats said?

There's a discussion on the chat about, I don't know, it always happens when we start the show, it's kind of choppy. Their viewing is kind of choppy. Oh, yeah. And somebody said, you know, it's better for me to watch on a landline computer. And good old Pants says, I don't know if it's worth the money just for this. Thanks a lot, Pants. Yeah. Thanks a lot, Pants. You know what I'd use my third hand for? I can hold you and slap you. Wow. Well, I guess, I don't know. I don't know what to say about that. I guess on that note, if you want to interact with the show during the week, you can catch us on livefromthepath.org. It's a good resource. You can sign up for the newsletter, our podcast, you can sign up for the podcast there. I fixed the podcast, by the way. Anybody that ditched the podcast, it was double posting audio and then the video, and I get it, like that's a ton of stuff and you got tired of it. So, feel free to jump back on. We're back to audio only. I haven't signed up for that yet. I should do that just so we have someone. No, don't load our numbers. Because I say, look, we had 50 people watch the video this week. It turns out it's just been editing it, like 45 days. Yeah, I have three computers and I'll sign up on all three.

Looks like we're doing big numbers. Yeah. Now, you're also free to call the place. Oh, right. To get to the studio, the number is 327-1007. It also says we have a toll-free line at 888-327-1007. Although, we've tried that and that didn't seem to go very well. I didn't know you could call. You can give that another shot. 327-1007. We do dating advice. We'll do anything. Just call in and talk to us. Medical. If you have a Jesus question, we're more than happy to talk about that. If you just want to babble on, we'll tone you down and let you keep talking, and then we'll talk about you. Then we'll kind of ignore you, right? Yeah. Well, actually, so just to throw this out to the chat, if you guys want to discuss, what would you do with a third arm? Hmm. Mingle amongst yourself. Hmm. Yeah. That was like the tongue was better. It is more biblical. Yeah, James kind of comes to mind, the whole uncontrollable thing. The arm, I don't know if Jesus didn't talk about his third arm very much, but lips.

They probably don't have it very often. For those of you with three arms, just let me say. I suppose on this one, we're going to have to say, where the Lord is silent, we're silent. Third arm guy is just cool in our book, I guess. We can do whatever we want. I mean, unless he's committing some kind of sin with a third arm, I guess he's cool. Wait, wait, wait, wait, I see this. Is there any, what spiritual gift, or what do you think, in what method would Jesus use a man with three arms to most suit his kingdom? He could pass out communion. Yeah. What do you need a third arm for? There's only two items in communion. He could bury his talents quicker. They could bury the talents, yeah. A lot quicker. Three arms. I think you have three. You could have three plates, that's what I'm saying. No. He can't be in two places at once. He's not. Well, okay, let's clarify this. Does the third arm have any special abilities? No, he's a regular arm. Where's it located on the body? Below the other two arms? No, that's a good point. In the front?

That's a good point. Does it come right out? It's on the back. How about the laying on the hands? Is that one handy? Do you have a third one? That'd be kind of smothering. Well, maybe. He can come, actually, he… I can't breathe, move the third hand. I think it's on the back. The third arm is on his back. That's awkward. Okay, but it's the same length, right? So it doesn't have any extra reach. It'd have to be a little longer, though, so it can have the same reach. No, no, no. You can't create it. It is what it is. It's a normal-sized hand arm coming out the back. Why can't it be just, like, below this one? No. No. Webbing for swimmers. So what you're assuming is God didn't make a mistake. He just made a third arm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. That was the chocolate milk, the nuclear chocolate milk. Yeah. Yeah, this is a human mistake. Now we have to deal with it. Yeah, God didn't really approve that design. He just said, well, they're messing with it. I don't know about this. Would it have to have its own, I mean, would you have an armpit, too? Yeah, well, yeah. How could it not have a pit? Because it doesn't have a shoulder. Does it have a shoulder? Well, it has to have a shoulder. Yeah. It wouldn't work. There's at least a ball joint. It's right in the back. Okay, I changed my mind. I don't want this thing. It's obnoxious. I mean, it's disconcerting. You could pull up your pants, though, without having to make a big scene. That's true. That's a bonus. Pants on the ground. You don't think. Keep thinking about it. They're not participating.

In fact, that armed discussion lost two people. Bummer. Well, nothing I can do about that. It's the way of the world. The way of the world. All right. So, you know, one of the things I was thinking about, actually, on a slightly different note, people are wearing themselves out. I was reading last night, and Jeremiah, it's Jeremiah chapter 9. And one of the things that caught me is, Jeremiah is a long lament for the, you know, the idiocy of the people around him. You know, and actually, and God starts drawing lines in the sand and says, I'm not doing this. I'm not listening to this anymore. But one of the things I thought that was interesting that Jeremiah was talking about, he talked in chapter 9, verse 5. It says they're wearing themselves out. Like, with their, you know, it depends on the translation, but, you know, with their evil deeds, with their sinning, with whatever. It's just that they're wearing themselves out. And that got me thinking a little bit, because one of the things that I think I tend to struggle with is, I struggle with the guy, or with, I'm pretty good at directing someone to my church, right? Someone says, you know, I can go up to them, I can say, hey, would you like to go to church? Here's where I go to church. Here's all the great stuff about my church. One of the things I really struggle with is having a frank, honest discussion about me and my faith and my relationship with Jesus Christ. Because it's a fairly pragmatic existence for me. Like, I acknowledge that he's God, and I go about my business as much as I humanly can with what he wants. So I don't have a lot of the flowers to bring to the grave, to be honest. And so, but this actually stood out for me as one of the things that I lack. I'm not tired. I don't, you know, I'm not wearing myself out with sin, with evil deeds.

I'm not running myself ragged, trying to enjoy a lifestyle that is counter to God. I don't feel it, you know. I don't feel run down. I don't feel beat up. And so, you know, that actually stood out for me as something that I, that is an honest thing I could share with someone is, you know, you may be wearing yourself out. You don't even realize it. You're, you know, you're wearing yourself out with the things that you're doing. And actually, I don't feel that. And that's something that I could actually share and be personal about. So, I don't know. I don't know. I think a lot of people hold that, hold that attitude. I actually hold the exact same thing. Like, like if I could just invite them to church, the Lord will get them from there. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Like if I could just get them in the building, you know, like the Lord, the Lord's got them from there. And actually, it kind of runs, I guess, counter to what I would like it to be because, I mean, once they get in there, you know, the same people that drove them away from church the first time are, you know, I mean, there's still people in the church. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I don't know why I was saying this on the way in. But, like, it's not the church that the Lord set up. It's because there's people in it, you know, that turn people away, you know. And so, you know, people get a lot closer walk with their faith when it's a one-on-one discussion, you know. Like, what am I missing? You know, what is it that I need to know? And, you know, what is it that makes you continue to come back here, you know, every week? And, you know, that's almost the exact same point that Ben was making, you know, when it comes to, you know, why is it so much easier for people to say, you know, you're invited to my church instead of you're invited to a walk with my God? You know, that seems like a lot harder conversation to bring up. Well, church is tangible.

I mean, you're inviting someone to this invisible person who's no one that has ever seen except who's been recorded in Scripture, you know, a thousand years ago. Well, more than that. And it's tangible to say, hey, here's a place you can go. Here's something you can do. Here's a center. To introduce you to that invisible God that you can't see. Well, and it's also, it's probably actually, it's more safe. It's more safe than, you know, I can go, I can see what other people are doing. I can, you know, kind of get a place as opposed to, bam, here you go. You're talking to the all-knowing creator of the universe and he's looking at you, you know, what are you saying back to him? So, yeah, I think that it seems like an easier proposition as if you're going to get him. You're going to get him in stages. And actually, that's one of the things that I think we can probably regret as a people and maybe as a group that follows Christ is that we're way too easy on ourselves on the urgency of that relationship with Christ. And this kind of came up in one of the things we were talking about off of that Crazy Love, that Francis Chan book was that it's pretty, we like to work on things in stages. Like, here are the big things in my life. I'll take a little bit and I'll improve. And I've been improving over the last three months. You know, I can feel a little, I can feel better about that. I'm making some progress here and I'm making some progress on this other thing. And it's true that that's, you know, you can, you move that direction and you try hard. But I think we sometimes let ourselves off a little too easy with things like that. You know, we become okay with making progress. We become happy. You know, we're proud of ourselves. Oh, this is what I've been able to accomplish. I, you know, I used to do this thing that I knew was detrimental to what God wanted me to do. And now I've cut that in half and I'm, you know, I'm really making some weight. And, you know, again, acknowledging that we will continue to do things that are counter to God. It's part of the nature that we now have.

But, you know, we got to stop being satisfied with that. We got to stop being satisfied with making, you know, small progress and being happy about that. Knowing that, you know, there's, we just, we are more accountable than that small, that small step. You know, and that aside, you know, we do, it does take those small steps to get there a lot of times for us. And sometimes, you know, we have to, we have to set out those, those things to make sure that we're heading in the right direction. But I think it's important to make sure we're doing it in the right perspective. Not like I'm constantly benefiting, you know, I'm feeling better because I'm making small steps. We just need to put those steps into perspective and know, you know, eventually where we're heading so that we don't get happy with the landmarks. That we actually know where it is that we're supposed to be going and that we keep, are mindful of that, why we're taking those steps. Well, that can also move itself into what I call the circle of me in my Christian walk. It's like, if I'm not constantly thinking about my walk, constantly thinking about me in my walk, then it gets to be a bad cycle too. I mean, it's just, it's just constantly round and round with the prayers and they keep coming back to me on what I can do better and how I can do this. And essentially God's got to do it all. He's got to set that up. He's got to set up the pins and you've got to roll the ball and he makes it happen. But, you know, sometimes you're just too involved with your own walk and not concerned about others' walks. And I think pulling people into a relationship that's real, that they can understand, that's based upon real connection and experience with God, moves them on easier than our chiding or helping them on. No, I would agree with that. One of the things is that there's, it's weird that there's, I think there's two groups of people that are in the same situation. There is the people that don't interact with other people because, again, they're caught in the trap of constantly thinking about themselves and they're not really going about the work. And then there's the other group of folks who recognize that there's work out there but don't take the steps to do it. And, you know, that kind of gets to something that we've been talking about recently, which has to do with, you know, doing work for God. You know, what does it look like to actively serve God? We're not talking about sitting, you know, I don't know who finds a pew comfortable and who is satisfied with sitting in this uncomfortable pew, you know, ignoring the people that are around them and then, you know, going through the duty of going to church. It seems like a real tough thing to be happy with and to get any substance out of. So, you know, that's one of the things we've been talking about lately is actively serving God. And what does that look like? Because I think sometimes we're not sure where to start. And we'll say, well, you need to pray on it.

Well, you know, sometimes it's helpful even just to know maybe what do I ask? You know, what do I pray for? As much as we like to think, you know, just start talking to God, and this is the answer, by the way, it helps to know. It helps to know, like, how other people are approaching things. Because I think sometimes we don't know how to approach God. If you put God in his own context, it's a tough character to approach faithfully. So I think, you know, that's one of the things that maybe we can help with is understanding what it looks like to serve, to serve God, and what situations might put you at risk of not being able to serve God to your fullest based upon the influence of maybe the world. Mike? Mike, the whole time you were talking, I kept thinking, I think they made them pews uncomfortable so you wouldn't fall asleep. I'm fairly certain that they make them that way, so you have to sit, you know, mostly upright. No one sits like that. Well, don't you find it most interesting what other people think about God when you talk to them? I mean, that's what I think. Yeah. When I get to it, I just want to hear what you think about God and how he's touching and what's going on in your life. But for me, my number one service is to God, period. Yeah. Period. That relationship, keep that one alive, keep that one alive. That's a pretty big service. Yeah. Well, we're in this series of sermons right now that we're kind of spurred on this conversation, that we're doing a pathway that was started several months ago. So, you know, like most of my sermon series, I'm sitting down with a pad of paper and just kind of thinking and maybe brainstorming with somebody or something. But what kind of got into this one was I was thinking back to when I played football in high school. I was not a great star or anything like that. I just was an average guy, you know. But I got to play, you know.

Because you go through all these practices and you work like a dog. And the whole point of that is to get to play. And I never, there was a whole group of people who didn't want to play. And I thought, why are you, I never could figure that out, you know. I never played as much as I wanted to. I always wanted more, more, more, you know. And I thought, why would you go through all that work and not even, you know, did they just want the jersey or something so they could walk around and look at me? Yeah, yeah. And so that was the series put me in, Coach, you know, is the idea. Because I was thinking of all the excuses that people come up with, why they don't serve God is, you know, well, you know, I'm really in a bad time right now. Or I can't even think of all the ones we've done, you know, last few weeks. Surviving the dog pile was all this, you know, all this stuff is hurting. Or when you're the underdog, that's why I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not qualified. I'm not, you know, all the different things you hear throughout time. I mean, it's like, well, God will take care of that stuff, you know. If he wants you to do something, he'll give you what you need. Well, you know, and I think there's plenty of, you know, scriptural references on exactly how that's not true. I mean, you look at the people that God used, I mean, almost consistently. Like, there's very few dudes that were above and beyond when the Lord got them. You know, almost everybody that he used. There's a superstar. I better use this guy because I don't think I could do it without him. Yeah, it's usually this obscure nobody. Yeah, it's not like the Lord picked Goliath to do things, you know. He picked David to do things, you know. I mean, like, he consistently picks people that I would see or that you would see or that, you know, anybody would walk down the street and go, well, you know, he's no crystal cathedral guy.

You know, he's no doing huge work for Jesus. He's just a regular old dude. And I'm fairly certain he killed somebody, you know. Yeah. Actually, you know, almost all the big characters like the, you know, that you think of in the Bible, I mean, these were flawed characters. These were flawed followers. You know, Moses was a murderer. David was an adulterer and a murderer. I mean, Paul was a murderer. You know, yeah. I mean, like, you can't find someone that God used to what we look at as the biggest impact of the faith that, you know, wasn't, you know, seriously flawed from a human perspective that God turned around. And, you know, it should be an example to us to not back away from, well, you know, some real simple things. You know, well, I want to serve God, but I'm not good with people. Or I don't talk well, you know, I don't speak well. But Moses didn't speak well. You know, I mean, there's biblical examples for a lot of the things that hold us back from, you know, going about our, you know, our godly business that I think maybe Satan tries to, you know, convince us that, you know, God really can't do anything with you because of this is your limitation. Right. You have three arms. No one's connected to you. And that's, you know, and I think the thing is, is that's not putting you in the wrong perspective. That's putting God in the wrong perspective. Well, usually it's the stuff that we think that we need to have before we can serve. Those are the things that tend to disqualify us from service. You know, if I just really had it all together, well, then pride disqualifies us from service because, well, I've got it all together, you know.

Right. God can't really use us. Right, you're 50-50. You're like, well, you know, I can't do this, you know, and then you're like, I finally got it all together. It's like, now we can't use it because you're in the way. Yeah, it's like, obviously you need me or this can't be done. And it's like, yeah, we can do it without you. You know, God can do whatever he wants. And so, yeah, it's a strange push and shove type of thing. Dichotomy? Exactly. Well, you can get out in front of God, too. You can get out in front of him. Oh, yeah. Moses did. Moses did. That's where the whole murder thing happened. Yeah. The Egyptian. You obviously need me to free the Israelites. I'll just kill this dude. I'll start with that guy. Some people say that's what Judas was doing when he betrayed Jesus. Well, Jesus is moving too slow. Let's get this thing moving. And then he decided, ooh, that wasn't really what I thought. The reluctant hero. I mean, it's in every movie. You see it now.

And that's a lot of the things that we see in the Bible. These reluctant people who didn't want to serve. And the guy said, well, you're going to serve. You're going to. I chose you. Yeah. I mean, frankly, even if you look at Jesus, he's the ultimate servant, right? Right. And, you know, even at the time where he said, you know, can you take this from me? I don't, you know, if this can be taken from me. But there's a segment of obedience there, too. You know, when we talk about service, there are times when, you know, maybe you're actively trying to serve and then, you know, you don't feel like it. Like, you don't feel like you can give it your all or you don't feel like, you know, what God has called you to do is having an impact or whatever. And, you know, there's a method of obedience in our service to God, too, where, you know, you just, you have to push through it. You know, there's a lot of times when we expect something. We expect some sort of result. What you're building here is this is for God. It's not for you, you know. And, you know, we could spin our wheels here. We could be in this studio for the next 60 years and, you know, talk to 20 people in a day. And if that's what God wants, that's good enough. That's enough, you know. And maybe 30 years from now, we're like, oh, man. 20 people. So, we've talked about it as much as we could, you know. Dance, you need to get more friends.

Yes, Ben likes chocolate milk. Dan wears funny shirts. Ha, ha, ha, ha, you know. We're out. We don't have any other stories, you know. But whatever. If this is what God wants from us, then that's what we'll be doing. You know, whether we like it or not, whether we're feeling something from it or not. And I think that gets to something, Rick, that you were saying that I think is the kind of the overarching deal, which is your relationship with God will drive your service for God. And the more connected you are and listening to God, the more that doesn't, you know, you stop looking at yourself. You stop looking at the things that you want out of it. You realize what you're working for. And you can get more comfortable even just to the fact that I'm serving God the way he wants, you know, wants me to serve him. And that works. And that's what I need. Well, I think when you know him, things change. Yeah. I mean, you know, when you know God, you want to do things for God. When you know God, you want to, you have great thoughts for God. You know, there's just also a sense of things that goes along with knowing God that you can't control, the appetite. Oh, yeah. When you know God, the appetite just goes nuts. Before I came here tonight, I was, I don't know, half an hour before leaving, and I walked to the kitchen. I thought, man, this is just kind of a mess, you know, all the kitchen supper junks out, you know. And just kind of had this, I think I'll wash the dishes. So I unloaded the dishwasher, loaded the new stuff, but I just hand-washed the stuff. That's a weird thought. But you know what?

It never crossed my mind to wash my neighbor's dishes. Okay. Because I don't know them. Are you comfortable walking over there and wash the dishes? Well, I don't know them. I mean, I don't care. Okay. This is your point. I mean, the more you know God, the more you want to serve him. Well, I know my family. I want to serve them. It's like, you know, so that's why I did it. It wasn't because… I feel bad now. That's a guilt trip. You guys didn't wash your dishes? Man, you guys were pitiful. I did not. Boy, that was way out there, Dan. No, it was good. I just feel guilty now. I guess let's be clear. It's not normal for the dude to wash dishes. Yeah. That's by its right nature. Or to do any household. If you really love your wife, you wouldn't wash in a while. Woman, you're getting that wrong. It's not normal.

I'm not saying I do that every day. Dan went sermon. He said, if you don't help out with putting the laundry away because you don't know where it goes, that's like ridiculous. And I realized that… Did I say that out loud? That I bomb on like 25% of laundry because literally I don't know where it goes. Now, the thing is, is I would take a stab at it and I'm pretty sure I would be wrong. And then I would have a talking to about that. You have a big house? You don't know where the socks go and the shirts? No, no. My shirts and my… Because all my shirts hang up. All of them. Every single… T-shirts, it doesn't matter. They all hang up. One of those, huh? I do the same thing, actually. You don't have to fold them. No. I hang up. It's easier than folding. Why are you anti-fold? I don't get that. Because then they get folded. It's extra work. It's harder to sift through them.

That's true. I can have them all sitting up. You get shoulder nipples that way, though. Oh, yeah. I don't like shoulder nipples. I don't. No. In preparation for the third arm. A man lives. Yeah, so anyway, so I can hang up my shirts. I know where my socks and undies go. Who calls it shoulder nipples? That's outrageous. You know what those are, don't you? Yeah, I know what they are. I've never heard anyone say that before. Oh, that's… Yeah. Those are embarrassing. I know. They're terrible. How do you not hang up a t-shirt? Do you have any? Any on… I have. On the pulpit. Oh. Well, I usually have a… I probably have.

I'll try to iron them out. Iron them out. That's the other thing you don't have to do is iron. Yeah. If you put stuff on a hanger. Yeah. But unless… Unless, you know… Unless it gets off kilter. I don't get that. Off kilter. Maybe you can. Maybe you're buying some cheap pairs. Maybe my clothes are too big. Get the plastic around it. They make little people hangers. They don't make big people hangers. I'm sorry. Maybe that's the problem. I guess I haven't had that problem. I don't know. I don't know if God wants me to do the dishes. I mean, he might. I'll pray on it. I don't want to take it out, but… You've heard this before. The point was not the dishes. The point was when you know someone, you serve them. I was kind of going off of what you said.

Yeah. The more you know God, the more you want to serve him and get involved. You can't possibly just find a church and sit down and watch. How could you… I don't get it. It's the same feeling as the person who goes through all the practices and lives through the practice, like you live through your faith, but doesn't want to play the game. I couldn't… And I couldn't get that. I don't understand the person who would say, yeah, I believe in Jesus. I'm a Christ follower, but not actually do anything. Well, let me ask you this, because I actually think that probably represents a large group of people. Yeah, it does. The people that attend church and are inactive. I mean, so what is it? So I think we've trained them that way. A lot of pastors do that, because as long as I'm doing everything, I'm the hero, and you need me. And I'm so opposite of that, which, you know, it's like, you don't need me. You need God. Get involved. Do something. I'll do my gift. You do your gifts, the gifts God's given you. And that's how he designed the body to be. He didn't design the body to have two or three staff people do everything. We totally screwed it up. Actually, that's a good point.

It could very well be an impact of the hierarchical nature of the modern church, but we say, he's the head of the church. He should be involved. He should have to do this. And, you know, we have an associate pastor. What is that anyway? Well, maybe he has to do something, you know? What are we keeping him on staff for? He has an email address. Well, even worse than that is the pastor saying, well, I have a place for you to serve. Here's your place. Yeah. I got an opportunity for you. And you put somebody in a place where they're not gifted to be. Yeah. And that's a drag. That's horrible. That's a lose for everybody. Yeah. You know, and that's just, that would completely discourage me. And just to be able to be discouraged because of that. Oh, you come work in the nursery. I hate kids. Well, we need you. We just need a dude. Sometimes we do things short term just because it needs to be done. Right. Just as like at home, somebody had to wash the dishes. Was I passionate about that?

No. Did I go, man, I want to wait for this? I can't wait till I do dishes. No. Sometimes you just have to do stuff. But, you know, predominantly I do the stuff I'm passionate about at home. And it's the same thing as in the church family. How do you find janitors? Are people predominantly passionate to say, I want to be on the clean team? Actually, yeah. I think there are. And the thing is, just because it's not you. Like, there's a lot of things that people do that I look at and I say, no, I don't want anything to do with it. That sounds terrible. Yeah. Why are you doing that? But that's their place. That's their place to serve. That's where God has led them to serve and they like it. And they, you know, they're serving. Here's the thing is the guy. There's no difference between the guy that's scrubbing the john and the guy that's giving the sermon. Right. Like, they're both serving God and that's awesome. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Equally. You know? And you might as well dig on scrubbing the john. If that's what God has you up to, what are you going to do? Are you going to argue with that? I mean, get comfortable. Get scrubbing. Yeah, man. Buy yourself some high quality gloves and have at it. You know, years ago. The Lord only does all natural toilet cleaning. Good luck, Jimmy Buffett. I did a sermon series like years ago. We lived in Atlantic and it was on spiritual gifts, you know. And it was just a spiritual gift at a time to kind of explain it and fold it. Here's what it is. Blah, blah, blah. And like every week I was like, well, that's not my gift. And toward the end of the thing, people were like, what good are you? People are starting to ask, you don't have any of the gifts. I don't have any of those gifts. I'm not any good at that stuff. Sometimes I'll do some because you do. But, you know, I got to my gifts later. But, um. Was good looking one of the spiritual gifts? That's just natural for me. It just flows. I was asking for myself.

Oh. Sorry, Dan. Was there a reason when you said I was going to go over to the neighbor's house and wash their dishes? All I can imagine is that you and your boxies were running over to the neighbor's house. Hello. That's Dan. How are your dishes today? I'm going to wash your dishes. By the way, I wash my dishes in my boxers. So, let me in. Don't mind my apron. Actually, I felt guilty for a second that I hadn't washed the neighbor's dishes. I thought, I should do that. Well, that's what I thought. It doesn't take much. I should just go over there and do it. I totally missed the complete point of like, man, I don't ever wash my neighbor's dishes. I should go find him. You ever shovel off your neighbor's box? That's the point. That's why some people never serve him. They don't know him that well. They know his name. You might know my neighbor's name, but you don't like know them. Right. You don't know where they're headed for supper tonight because you haven't talked to them. You know, I've actually found myself not doing nice things for people, afraid of the retribution that I might get. Like, I play out like 50 scenarios in my head.

I get slapped a lot for doing nice things. Of how they wouldn't like it. Hey, actually, I will support that to this extent. Don't support that. I will support that to this extent. The retribution. I mowed somebody's lawn earlier this summer. I went out like I was mowing my lawn. I have a writing lawn mower, which made sense where I lived before I live now. And now, frankly, it's overdone. I probably should sell the thing and get a push mower, but I refuse because it's nice. So I ride this thing, and I can mow my yard in about 25 minutes. And this guy that lives next door, he hadn't mowed his lawn in about a week and a half. He's gone a lot. He works a lot. He was out with his kids, and it was about to rain. And I knew it was going to rain for the next three days, so I thought, you know, maybe I'll go over there and mow his lawn so that it's mowed. And, you know, that'll be pretty nice. I can't get to his backyard with the mower, so I'll have to leave that be. But I'll mow the front yard, and that'll be cool. And so I mowed it. And then, like, his kid, like three or four days later, came up to me, and he's like, hey, do you know who mowed our lawn? Like, and he was, the kid was real mad. Did he have a gun? Like, no, he wasn't. Why would he have a gun? Retribution.

You're the guy who's saying retribution. Yeah. Why don't me know who mowed my yard? Well, it's okay. It's kind of eggs. Okay, so we like that. It's Bondurant. What do you mean you're here? We heard about the vandalism out there. No. No, what do you mean? What did I say that wasn't true? That's completely accurate. That's… Please don't argue with your wife over the radio. This is… Total clarify what I said wasn't accurate. You should have done the dishes. Yeah. Anyway, so I mowed his lawn, and then, like, oh, well, yeah, well, that's partially true. I did accidentally drive into his lawn a little bit with my blade. I forgot about that part. Now the truth comes out. Actually, that's… I only remember the altruistic portion of the program. So nice. I wasn't as nice as I thought I was. What kind of neighbor do you have that you're so in fear of his anger that you accidentally turned and made a circle in his yard?

You asked him. His kids did, too, say something. I talked to… Okay, now that part was true. Little Noah came up to me. Who… Because… Well, because here's the thing. I apparently ran over a toy with the riding lawnmower. How old is this kid? I don't know, four. You call that retribution? That was retribution? You made it sound like it was like a 15-year-old punk come rolling up to you. It's a hot… It's what we told that. It's a… It's a little man in Huggies come rolling up, and you act like he's… Him and his gang of toughs are about to give you a runaround. Yeah, that's the way it happened. Stay in my yard. Anyway, I'll never do it again. Yeah. Okay, wait a minute. It was a terrible experience. Wait a minute. So his dad didn't even come out and say something? He was so angry with me. I don't think so.

So the moral of the story is, don't ever help anyone ever. I think he was very upset. He was offended, I think, because he's like, I would have done it. You know, why did that guy have to come do that? Like, I took it away from him. You got the two-fisted crow from a four-year-old boy, and you've sworn off good deeds? Let me give you a reason not to do good deeds. I'll give you my past experience this winter. My neighbor's got a shoulder problem. He had had shoulder surgery, so I said, I will do your walks in your driveway for the whole winter. Right? This will be great. Well, had it snowed yet, or was this ahead of time? It was ahead of time. Okay, so I'm going, this is great. This is what I should be doing. Worst winter ever. It was pretty bad. Pretty bad. It was, yeah. It was very bad. And so I'm going, okay, am I going to develop a bad attitude about this? Of course. Yeah. Am I going to burn up everything I've done well? Of course. But you finish the course, you finish the whole deal, but it's like, you just do these things.

You know, it's because you feel like you want to do it. The guy wasn't mad or nothing? He didn't say, you're not doing it fast enough? He was, it was just more work. My point is more. My point is, testing my faith. And I just kept doing it. And it ended up, well, you know, he wants to pay me back by giving me a meal or something. And I don't care about that. A meal? Yeah. Is it as late? Probably not. I'm kind of hungry. Does he deliver? Is there a Boston's around still? The Pizza Hut makes a giant Italian pizza. Did you guys see the advertising for this deal? No. It's huge. It's like, hold on. I'm not in the scene. It's this big. Hold on. That's the size of a regular pizza. No. If I make it bigger, the camera can't see. Okay. It's bigger than the big.

It's outside the realm of the camera. Give it to us in feet. Yeah. Two foot long? Is that accurate? I'm going to believe it. Two foot long. Says who? Show bomb. Okay. Woman says 18 slices. Two foot long. It's about the size of a pillow. Okay. So it's like a rectangle? Okay. That sounds fair. Yeah. Pillow. All right. Yeah. Anyway. That's a big pizza. Yeah. Well, let's have it. It's 12 bones. Let's call up my neighbor. That's cheap. 12 bucks is the…

What's this guy's name? His name's Dick. He works for the state. He's a good guy. I can't call him that. All right. Let's call him Sal. Richard? No, his name's Dick. He works for the state. We can call him anything you want, but his name's Dick. He goes by the name. It's not offensive. That's what he uses. Yeah, but I've already said I shoplifted earlier. I'm just going to sound like a Ruvian. More than two mediums put together. I like how much information you have on this show, Mom. I like… Sweet. She's got a lot of info on it. Do you work at the pizza? Let's do this thing. Let's yap in Mord Island. Call it… Hey, put it on the PATH phone. Daniel, did you bring your credit card? Are you on the Ramsey? Do you have to pay cash?

Oh, no, Ramsey. I love that thing. Ramsey's not very happy with me right now. No doubt. How much was that shirt? Actually, it was free. I was meeting someone today. All he knew was that I was from Pathway Church, so I stole this from Sunday, emptying out the totes of all the shirts no one wants, and it happened to be my size, so I just ripped the puppy open and put it on. Well, isn't that convenient? Wait, where do you keep… The guy who orders the t-shirts bought a bunch of t-shirts left over that only fit in. Look at that. This is what happened here in my son. It's shocking. Where do you keep the tote that has all the shirts in it that nobody wants? Is it because the tote is not brought out? Yeah, where is it? In your car? Maybe. You keep the tote extra shirts in your rig? Nobody wants these. I don't understand why. Look at that. I guess I'll take them. I've been storing them over at the neighbor's house. I just get one out when I go do dishes. They work quite well, though, because he knew who I was.

It's that shirtless guy, and he wants more of his stuff. Just give it to him. Oh, thanks, Olson. Did he give us the phone number? No, he referred me to pizza.com. Olson, could you put your credit card information on the chat? That's what we need. I tell you, you can X out the first few numbers so that people don't know, but I really need the whole thing, otherwise I can't order with it. Expiration date and that number on the back as well. I was reading a review online of one of the local night scenes around here, and they said that bartenders have been keeping the credit card number and then running tips through later. I've heard of that. That's pretty shady. That's shady. Is that what you called me, Bob? They say you should always make sure you write in the tip, even if it's zero, put zero so they can't later on take your whole credit card over to Yonkers and spend it. I would be embarrassed if someone thought I spent good money at Yonkers. In fact, someone accused me of that earlier this week. It was a young girl, like a seven, eight-year-old girlie. She walks up and she goes, you got that shirt from Yonkers. I said, I don't shop at Yonkers. She said, yeah, you do. That shirt looks like it came from Yonkers. I said, what is going on here? Who have you been talking to? I don't shop at Yonkers.

Really? I shop. I actually don't shop at all. But she accused me of being… But you hang all your shirts up. Well, it's because I don't want to fold them. That's it. You're anti-fold. I don't get it. I don't like it. Folding's terrible. There's a method to it. Especially if you become married and then your method's class. Like, I don't fold like that. And I said, oh, I put them all on hangers. That's it. Easy going. So how many shirts do you have? Not very many. I was going to say, you must only have a handful. Yeah, I mean, I have enough to get me going. That's it. I don't ever show up here shirtless. That's true. That's all you need to know. Are we ordering pizza? I agree that he's not shirtless. Is that what we're looking for? Oh, yeah.

Sure. Okay. So this 40-day fast, I'm not doing meat right now. So, you know, make sure. Aw, Dan. 40 days of no meat. What's that? 40 days of no meat. Whatever. You're like that lactose. Oh, our kid that you invite to your summer party. Whatever. Jimmy can't have milk. Jimmy can't have ice cream. What do we got? We can't go outside. He's allergic to the grass. Are you having sugar-free jello? We're getting the meat lovers pizza, Dan. I'm sorry. I'm picking it up. My mom makes flan. Is it flan? Flan. Flan. Flan. Flan? Flan? How's it spelled?

Isn't it flan? It's spelled like swan, right? That's flan? That's flan. It's not flan. What is it really? Flan? Come on, it's flan. It's like a Mexican dessert, isn't it? Like a custard type thing? Lots of water. Lots of meat. Water and meat. Meat. Hey, you guys ever had one of those tres leches cakes? Who? Tres leches? The three milk cakes? Oh, yeah, yeah. That really grosses me out. It's like picking bread out of the sink. Yes. And eating it. But it's very tasty. No, no. What is that? No, I don't care what you put on wet bread. Three milk. That's nasty.

That's great. No. No. Have you ever picked up? I just had some last week. One of my employees brought it to the house. It was great. I'm sure they're fantastic, but that's terrible cake. I don't care how many of them. Now listen here. Is it a style of cake? Yeah. Or is it like a brand? No, it's a cake with like three milks. Like I could make one at home. Sure. What kind of milks? Just lots of milk. Yeah. Milk. Why? It's just three times the milk. That's it? Not three different styles? No, no, no. Just three times the milk. Like low fat, skim, and whole. Yeah, it just mix them up. Your description is accurate, but it tastes really good.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, so it's texture. You don't like the taste either? I can't get past the texture. I'll see. It's the texture. So here's what you can get. To get the equivalent, get three pieces of bread, fill up like a big bowl full of milk, put the three pieces of bread in there, let them soak, I don't know, half an hour, and then pick them up and take a bite. No, it molds. It's not that. It's mold. I admit that sounds terrible. It's disgusting. My mom used to make me that for breakfast when I was a kid. It was milk toast. You'd make toast, and you'd break it up, and you'd pour milk in it, and put some sugar on top of it. What's this terrible? That sounds disgusting. It was really good. They make cinnamon toast crunch, man. Come in the box. Hey, she was a depression child, all right? She lived in a depression. We put peanut butter on the cardboard. You want shoelaces with that? I'm going to give them to your dad.

My kids have never even wanted to try it. I'm like, oh, this is great. Well, now with that, it's cold, it sounds terrible. Actually, toast I might be able to get on board with, because I think it'll handle a little better. I mean, it's gross. Wait a minute. So, a bowl of milk, toast, and sugar? Like warm milk. Oh, man. Yeah, you warm up the milk a little bit. It just gives me the gravies. It doesn't melt. It is kind of like a milk toast gravy. Yeah. That sounds awful. It sounds delicious. Well, Olsen, why would you do that, then? Sarpino, he says, really good, which is real close to here, but they close at 10. Of course, you can't use it. You're real something else, Olsen. Hey, we have a question for Olsen. What was it? Oh, we want to look at that building in Johnston. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, please post something on the chat that implies that you are going to agree. I texted you Sunday. Thanks for the quick response, by the way. Anyway, you're listening to Life on the Path on Des Moines Amplified.com.

It's a travesty.com. What are you doing? Don't worry about me. I don't like what goes on when I'm trying to talk about my business. Anyway, if you're looking, by the way, if you're in town, if you're in the Des Moines metro area and you are looking for a church, you can join us at Pathway Church in Johnston. We meet at, ooh, Dan, what are the new times? 9 and 10.30. 9 and 10.30. Starting a week from Sunday. Starting a week from Sunday at Wallace Elementary in Johnston. And that's if you're looking for a church. More importantly, if you're looking for a relationship with Jesus Christ, we'd love you to come on out. Give us a call. You can also find the church on the website on thepathonline.org. I have a question for the pastor. Go. Pastor Dan. He's washing the toilet. He'll be right with you. I feel the pressure now. There's no pressure. I got a question. You know, most pastors, in my opinion, preach to the 20% who are already serving. I want them to serve more. When you look out there, are the 80% as important as the 20%? Is it the same to you? Do you feel a real sense of inflicting guilt upon the 80 to become the 20? Are you satisfied with the 80?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You understand what I'm talking about? It is not my job to create guilt. All right? It's my job to teach truth. And so I look at it from here's what God says, and then everybody has to do with it what they will. So I'm not necessarily trying to motivate that 20% to add more onto their life. However, the 80% is doing nothing. I'm hoping you're feeling God kicking them in the butt a little bit, saying, oh, wow, I'm really kind of falling short. I'm not doing my part. Well, what if the 80% were getting it right? Just showing up and loving the Lord for their time that they can, and the Lord loves them for the time that they're spending there. What if they're getting it right and the 20% are too zealous? Is there a possibility that could be true? I mean, God's real happy with us. Isn't he? Yeah, but I would say the 80%. Isn't he happy with us all the time? I would say that the… The Father looks down and he sees who? Does he see me? He sees Jesus. So is he not happy with those people? No. No. Is him to work harder? I mean, you know, James says faith without works is dead. You know, so if you're doing nothing, your faith is dead.

The people isn't coming on that Sunday and worshiping and being with God, isn't that enough? That's showing up for the show. That's… The 80% would have nowhere to go if the 20% weren't doing anything. You know what I'm saying? Especially in our church. Somebody's going to put a chair down for them. I mean, hooray for the 80%, but if the 20% weren't doing nothing, they'd be standing outside the field looking around. If we had this right, don't you think the church would be busting it, it seems, if we had this right? But the 80% aren't being appealed to, I think, in a certain manner because they feel, well, I'm not part of the 20, and they're always trying to get me to do something, and I don't want to do that. You and the devil put you in that place. Nobody else. You know what I'm saying? Like, the 80%, it's you, and it's Satan putting you right in that position. Because the only thing that separates you from the 20% is you walking. I figure everybody has a next step. I don't care if you're the 20 or the 80. We all have a next step. So my goal is always to say, wherever you are, where's God leading you to take your next step? Is that an accurate description, by the way, 20, 80? Is that further right? Well, they throw that around a lot, yeah. It's actually pretty accurate. It's kind of scary. Is that in the books? Yeah. Although, at Pathway, we have a ton of people that do stuff. I mean, there's the bulk.

There's that core, probably 20% that does most. So maybe you don't have the guilt-inflicted thing because you're a more progressive church and you think differently. But the majority of churches, it's like, why aren't you part of the 20? I think that's laziness on a pastor's part to try and make people guilty. Let's let God do his job. We'll teach truth and let the word speak for itself. And get out there and disciple, get off your butt and do something, lead by example, lead the way. Because some pastors are like, hey, I get the big chair and I get the special parking spot and I wear the special clothes and you can kiss my ring if you're lucky. You know, that's a load of crap, too. I like the 80. You like the 80? I like the 80. I'd rather fellowship with the 80. I'd rather talk with the 80. I'd rather do like we talked earlier of sharing your testimony with the 80 and sharing my time with the 80. We're sure. Does the 20 get on my nerve? Come on. 20%. They do all the work. Come on. They take their territorial. This is mine. We'll see if they're doing it for the wrong reason. Yeah. They don't get it. Right.

Yeah. Well, that's not… You've been hurt, haven't you? You've had some problems with the 20, apparently. Well, I grew up from the Baptist. The 20 is the most… That's a whole different ball of shit. I'm anti-20. Some of the 20… Yeah, see, you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. Right. Because it is easy to get so stuck on the do's and don'ts and that of… Church life that maybe for the… They started for the right reason, serving, but somewhere along the line, they're serving just for the sake of serving or to get their own personal little attaboys or something and they're not really doing it for Jesus anymore. And they start losing track of that, then everything gets messed up. And then they're more concerned with their little world than people. Yeah, but you guys are only describing situations where it's gone poorly, you know? There's some dudes that… There's poor leadership in the church, not slapping people around saying… Yeah, I mean, there's people in that 20% that you're talking about, they're just wired that way. That's right. You know what I'm saying? That's right. They're not shared with the 80 people, you know? They're good at what they do. The Lord's designed them to do this, and they just…

All they know is go. Let's do this for the Lord, you know? And they're not the people to talk to, you know? Like, I mean, I get what you're saying. I could definitely see how it gets skewed towards… You know, but I think that's more of a church community issue, you know what I'm saying? If your environment inside your church breeds this type of, you know, denomination splitting or, you know, faction splitting, you know, you need to change your church environment. Right, because it implies an inequality in front of God, and that's not consistent. Right. Exactly right. I mean, if you're screaming from the pulpit, you need to do more, and you guys need to really, you know, beef it up here, then yeah, I mean, you're going to breed that. You're going to create a situation where that has happened. But, I mean, as long as you say, look, here's what the Lord says on it, you know, do whatever the Lord tells you to do. We're not here to point fingers or whatever. I mean, if we start, you know, if we have to set up church every Sunday at 7 a.m., it doesn't happen, then we'll probably have to fold as a church, you know? We're not going to go door to door berating you, you know, to show up, you know? If the Lord wants you to be there, and you're listening to the Lord, you'll be there, and that's all you need to know, you know? I think that's the church environment issue more than it is, because it's not biblical, obviously. I mean, the Lord don't say to treat people like that, so I don't know. Well, I think you also run a risk with if the 80 exists simply as a counterculture to the super-Christian. Yeah. Like, I mean, if that's how it substantiates itself, by saying, you know, I don't want to be that, so I hang out here, you know, that's a I want to, you know, have fun with the sinners and cry with the saints type of thought, you know?

Like, well, you know, I don't want to be a part of that deal, so I'm willing to take, you know. Did you just pull off a Billy Joe reference? I did. I did. That's amazing. That was amazing. Thank you. Thank you. I incorporate. I'm a man of the culture. Anyway. You're a man of the culture. I think that's a danger by pointing at what we think we don't want and standing against that as opposed to defining ourselves more by what we should want or what God wants from us. Well, Jesus walked with the 80. Went after the 80. Right. But he didn't acquiesce to the 80 and become the 80. Of course not. He was the 20. But he was after. His heart was the 80. He was the 20. So if he's… What are you going to do with that one? Jesus was the 20. You're saying, I want on the other side? Good luck with that one.

Jesus was not the 20. He was the one, but I put him in the 20. You have a scorn version of 20. I think you're too hard on the 20. I just told you I'm anti-20. I'm pro-80. I think that's a mistake. Well, actually, I would clarify to say that I think everyone should be pro-80. Right. But I think the 80 as defined is probably missing out. I think the 80 as defined is missing out on, perhaps, on some of what God wants. Because I would be hesitant to believe that only certain parts of the Bible are there to only supplant the 20. God says, I want this for everybody, not for only the 20 that we look at as part of the hierarchical structure. Yeah. I mean, every believer has a spiritual gift and is expected to work within the body of Christ. Scripture doesn't say, well, I'm going to give good gifts to the 20, and the other 80, you guys can just kind of, you know, we're all responsible, every single one of us, to be involved in some sort of ministry for God. See, and that's where, when you shift that to, I'm doing this for the church, that messes it up. Just like in giving, if I'm giving to the church, you're giving to the, you know, don't give. We tell people, don't give if you're giving to Pathway. We don't want your money. God doesn't need it. Whatever.

It's until you figure out you're giving to God. And then that's a whole different mentality. I don't like this 80-20 concept at all. It's out. It sounds like something that some writers come up with back in the day. And I just don't like it. I don't like it. The mere presence, so are you saying, the presence of the distinction causes unnecessary blocking between you? Well, here's the thing, is I feel like my life would be better if I had never even heard of this. Because I had no idea. I had no idea. Now you're going to be counting. I had no idea. It ever exists. I never looked at it that way. And I never even thought about it that way. I just thought, here's what I'm supposed to be doing. And now I feel like if I volunteer to be on one more thing, I'm going to end up in the 20. And then the 80 is going to hate me. Now I'm the top 10. And I won't be able to even talk to the 20. The point of the whole conversation is there should be no 80-20. It really is. It's all the same. Because that's how God looks at it. He doesn't look at the uninvolved and the evolved.

It doesn't seem to have any difference. That's what I'm saying. But most people gear themselves to getting the 80 into the 20. But it should be just, they're doing fine. Challenge them on a relationship with the Lord. Yeah, that's stupid. I've just never even heard that message in our rule back with. Everywhere. It's not just a church thing. It's like with anything. A football team is the same thing. 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work. I've never heard of this. You go to the office building, 20% of the people are doing the 80% of the work. You know, really, that's like standard stuff. Ben knows things. Ben ain't even heard of it. He knows some stuff. Come on. Any 20 rule. He doesn't subscribe to your motivational mumbo jumbo books. I paid big bucks for that information. Come on, Zig Ziglar. Send me the six pack. This was the whole point of the secret sensitive deal. I think John Maxwell has a big thing about that, doesn't he? The sensitive deal. That's what it was. Geared towards the 80.

Yeah. Make them feel like they're doing just fine. Make them feel like nothing. I'll save some pudding. That doesn't sound right. You're shining them on? Shining them on. Isn't that not shining them on? Like, are we talking, is the 80 the I show up, I soak it up, I head out? Yes. I don't do anything else? Me, me, me. Yeah. That doesn't seem, but that's not biblically consistent. We're trying to reach these people, and we're going to treat them all the same. But I think there's a distinction, though. There's a distinction between, like, let's get fired up. He puts his pin down. I mean, Drew, it's in trouble. You better be ready for it. There's a distinction by not trying to inappropriately guilt them, which is not your position, and acquiescing to an inconsistent lifestyle, you know, but not being a voice of encouragement and truth of how the Bible says to live. Like, I think you need to be cognizant of the thing where you shouldn't be going around pointing fingers, because that's not your job. You're not the finger pointer. But the minute you start backing away from truth, because it might, you know, cheese somebody off. Well, that's the exact thing with that article that was in CNN this week, about that kids

are subscribing to a mutant form of Christianity, because their pastor or their parents want to sell them a watered-down version of it, so they stay with it, so they don't give it up. Right, and you can find this, if you go to, there's a belief blog on CNN. If you just go to CNN.com and type in mutant Christians for a search, you'll find it. But, you know, like, the general point was about kids are being given a shallow faith. Like, they're being taught, you know, a real shallow doctrine or a real shallow view of God, and God is the self-esteem booster. He exists because He loves everybody and to keep you feeling happy. He's the self-help God. And what they're finding is that, you know, as the kids are growing up, this is palatable, sure. But then they're walking away from it, because it's not a God of substance, which I would agree. This is, because that's not God. That's not the entire picture of the God that we serve. And so that's what's happening. These kids are hearing this, and, you know, whatever, they can repeat the stuff. They can use the felt characters on the board, and they can be in the plays and sing the songs. And then once they need something of substance in their life, because you need it, it's not there in God, so they go looking for it elsewhere. And that's kind of the concept of the article. And I think, I mean, it's weird, because I think you're always battling against things. You never want to close your opportunity. You never want to be… Listen, we've talked about the trust Jesus guy on the soapbox at the farmer's market, the guy that just sits there and yells. He might reach somebody.

I mean, God will do whatever he wants to do. But I mean, you know, you're closing some doors by doing that. And so if we look at the 80, if we want to use that categorization, and we say, well, you know, you want to make sure you're not closing doors, but I think you also want to make sure that you're not, you know, giving an inconsistent view of what God is, just so you don't close an opportunity that they're not going to take you up on, because you're not describing a God of substance. Right. Well, I mean, if you look at the way, I mean, look back at the Bible, look at the examples you've been given. You know, when you look at Paul and the way that he ran his missionary trips, you know, like when he get, you know, he goes and talks to the Greeks, you know, he doesn't, the message never changes, but he meets them where they're at. There's a difference between meeting them where they're at and, you know, saying turn or burn. You know what I'm saying? Like there's a huge difference there. Like when he started out, he started describing, you know, to the Greeks, their gods compared to the God and the statues they have, and this is what it equals, you know, and started right on their playing field. Because if they gave, if he sat there and talked about how all the old Jewish scripture, you know, predicted Jesus and said, this is it, and it's fulfilling prophecy, they wouldn't have anything to understand about it. You know, the Greeks don't care two bits about that. Right. So when he's talking to, you know, to the Jews, that's exactly what he starts with. When he's talking to, you know, people from foreign land who don't currently follow, you know, the Old Testament God of Jacob, you know, then, you know, he starts where they're at. And so when you, but that's the thing, he never, he doesn't tone the message down.

Right. He doesn't make it something that it's not, he doesn't make it more palatable for them. He just starts the message where they would be more likely to understand its fruition. Well, if you're not intelligent enough to know your audience, you know, don't talk. Dang. What do you mean more palatable? He spoke in parables to make everything more palatable for people because they couldn't understand it. Well, but he, that hadn't changed the message any. I mean, it made it more understandable. I think if you read some of the stuff, it was pretty, some spots, and then he went after the people he wanted to. Are you back down to the 80 again? I am not. Sounds like you're, like you're. I am not. It sounds like you want to set up a bean bag in a corner and have all the 80 come over so you can pat them on the head and say, everything's okay, man. You rock. I would like to tell them what's okay because they probably, they might be walking around thinking they're not okay. Here, have some plan. When God's real happy with them. When the father's happy with them because he sees his son inside them. Inside them. And why don't they feel okay? I don't know. I think it's probably because they don't. They need a, they need a, I would say that.

Perhaps it's because they're not serving. It might be that or they might not be thinking rightly about God to know that God's completely what happened to them if they're completely and devoted to him as a person. They might be just fine if they were thinking rightly about God and the message that was being preached from the pulpit was in fact the gospel message. And I think that goes back to what I think is some consistency about something you had said earlier is again that I think if by focusing on your, in your direct relationship with God, it blossoms from there, right? Like your walk with Christ is what, is what, you know, feeds your perspective, is what helps you to see the world, to understand how God sees you and to understand how God sees the world and how you are to interact with the world. And so I think we're in complete agreement that that relationship, you know, needs to be solid. And that's where you see a lot of that spiritual growth. But, you know, one thing I guess I would warn against is there are some people who feel hesitant. Again, something that we talked about a little bit earlier was that that they can't serve now because of their relationship with God. You know, and again, you know, there are tons of biblical examples of God using someone who is not the best example and who then becomes the example that he wanted to show simply by having been in that position and God having been used you. So, you know, if there's anything to pray over here, it's probably keep me open. Keep me open to whatever it is that you want to do regardless of how I feel. Let me, you know, let me just listen for that. And, you know, but that in itself is an opening, is an opening to God and saying, look, I, you know, I'm throwing this back to you because obviously I can't handle this deal. I don't know what to do. That's my nature. Okay.

So I'm going to open it up and, you know, just let me be cognizant of what it is that you want done in my life and, you know, give me the means to do it. You really, you really don't think, you really think that guy on the street corner? I don't know. I don't know. There's some support for the guy in the street corner on the chat. Ah, no. Nothing from you? That guy, a guy who just screams at people, that's like the guy when I was in college that was at the gym getting in people's faces, screaming, and they need to turn or burn, you know, Jesus is going to get you, you're going to go to hell, blah, blah, blah. It's like, he was an idiot. I mean, he's not a single soul listening to him. I didn't listen to him. I'm a believer and I'm going, you're not speaking, you know. You know, it was true, but, you know. Isn't there a place for the lightning rod? I mean, for like that one in a hundred person who responds to that, yes. Like, there's some good lightning rods out there that I don't appreciate who are on the Chris side, but they are lightning rods and they take all the heat. And I usually don't put out a whole lot of heat like that. You know, I could say them, but you know who they are. I mean, the guys out there doing the dirty work, taking the hits, screaming. I mean, you didn't see Jesus around screaming at people unless they were believers who said they were believers, who weren't really believers, like money changers, and they were ripping off believers. I like it when people yell at money changers. I mean, that's the only time people got ticked off. Whatever does it anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. Just be careful of that. I don't know why they all have to have beards. Long beards. This guy doesn't have a beard. Yeah, he does. No, he doesn't. What's he look like? I don't know. Give me a celebrity comparison. He looks a little like the guy from Overboard. Kurt Russell. I haven't seen that movie. Oh, man. Is that a romantic comedy? It's him and Goldie Hawn. Hi, Jinx and Sue. It's my wife's favorite movie. Be careful. It's also my favorite. All time. I saw a… Favorite movie I've never watched. It sounds terrible. I'm sorry. If I saw a video once of some group of people holding out signs, just hateful, screaming, and this is people going into a Christian concert, okay, and they're calling them, they're all going to go to hell because, you know, they have drums, and it's just like, you know

what? You guys are just angry, bitter people. That's all the problem is. And they're not, you know… I mean, they were… They're yelling at the believers. You know, I don't… You know, what do we got here? A two-hour show? You know, what does this guy say for eight hours of time on that stoop? This is… He's shallow. It's the same shallowness as the other end. What if someone says, you know, the guy's… He's going to say, turn or burn, and the guy goes, no. And then he says, we'll burn then. Is this the same guy with the riding all over his pickup and his truck to truck? The Jesus is Lord bus? Oh, no. I don't know. Now, that guy does have a beard. That's the guy I was talking about. Yeah. No, no. That's not the guy at the farmer's market. No. I've never seen it. You've never seen the Jesus is Lord bus? No, I've seen…

I haven't seen the dude you're talking about. I've just seen… The farmer's market? The bad guy. No. He's not the specific one. Yeah. Apparently, he looks like Benicio Del Toro, from what Bennett said. I understand what you're saying. So, the question on the chat, we're still talking about this dude on the thing, is that if he's called by God to do that, then who are we to question him? Dan? I would have a hard time believing he's called by God to talk to the general population that way. I don't know if that's your judgment to make. Well, maybe not, but I mean, he's still doing it. It's not like we're out there tackling him. Because he truly turns off 99% of the people. I mean, turns off, not just… Maybe the Lord's setting up barriers for people to see if they can break on through to him. Maybe he wants them to burn. I don't know. You know that's right. Well, because there is a biblical equivalent, and Noah would be it. Noah would be kind of his biblical equivalent. Yeah, Noah would be the crazy man. Does it say he was angry out there, telling people? No. Well, is it different if he's twirling an umbrella and smiling, singing a ditty?

And to be fair, he's more loud. We have the same message. We have the same message. He's more loud and irritating than he is angry. Exactly. You can't hear truth through all the crud. No, no, the guy at the farmer's market. Like, to be fair, he's not, like… He's more… He's wearing the Trust Jesus shirt. Like, he's just more loud and irritating. I'm more concerned about the medium turning people off. Like, you can't deny the accuracy of what he's talking about. Oh, yeah. I mean, he's biblically consistent. We would agree with what he's saying, probably. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I said, unless… I mean, he's not in error. So, I mean, I think you can't deny the message that he's saying. It's just, like, from the reaction of the folks that… And I've seen him numerous times. You know, the only people that I saw talk to him were people that were Christians anyway. Yeah. Like, people that were interested in the ministry. They like to keep… Which is a violation of Scripture right there. They just want to argue and bicker over Scripture.

Is he the overzealous 20 that we're talking about? No, he's the Ezekiel, Jeremiah type. Yeah. Right out in the wilderness telling you you're going to die. He better really be… But he didn't have the firepower to back him up like the… Yeah, really. He better be, like, really eating bugs and stuff. I don't… See, most unbelievers just stay away from freaks like that. Right. Like I say, it's the believers that will come up and say, Oh, yeah? Well, I suppose I'd say it the exact same way the other way. You know, if I were going to a concert and there were, you know, people that were protesting my Christian concert and yelling and screaming at me, I would cast them aside as nothing. Yeah. Whatever. I mean… We'd be quiet. I'm going to the concert, you know? I would think the exact same thing if I was… Yeah, you want to be at peace with everybody that you can be. You know, that's… That's new type of stuff. I'd say, why don't you come to my church and sit in the beanbag chair? In the corner. Remember that?

It was in the corner. I'll pat your head. Cushy chairs are on this side for the 80%. The stern, like… The 20% will stand on nails during the service. Job for Jesus. I regret bringing it up to 80-20. I regret it now. I regret it forever. I wish I had never known anything about this. I am soiled. It is everywhere. I had no idea seeing Jesus. They probably shouldn't. They probably shouldn't. It's the business of church. That's right. That's the worst part of it. It's just… I feel for the 80. I'm on their side. I really am. God is on their side. They don't need you. God is on their side. I know. They don't need your sympathy. I'm somewhat a representative of that area. I just…

I like for the light to come on. I mean, that's where I get turned on when somebody… The light comes on and they get into this deeper relationship with the Lord. It clicks. That's my thing. If I had something that I'd love to do for the Lord, that's it. You know? And I don't know how often it happens anymore. You know? When I was growing up in the 60s, that light was coming on all the time. And now I just love to dispense a little word, some truth, and maybe the light will come on. I don't know. I just love that part where that deeper relationship comes because of some inspiration from the Word of God. Something that I've said about… It's about the Word of God. Nothing. I have nothing to share but the Word. So I get off on that 80. Becoming… I hate to say it, but like that 20. That just… Something changes. So when… And they become more… They just become more active. So the 80 flock moves to the 20 and you hold on to their shirt and beg them to stay? Get back in here. Don't you realize what we are, friend? Don't work in the nursery.

Come out here with me. Did you volunteer to be on the cleanup? Oh! No! No one talked to Bill. It's the preacher's job. Let him do it. It was a delight just to have a deeper relationship. It has nothing to do with service. Okay, so I think I get what you're saying. You're not as against the 20 as maybe I'm thinking. Maybe you feel like the 80 gets neglected in response to the 20. I think the 80 get treated like they need to be the 20 when they're just fine. The Lord loves them. But you just said you like them. And they move to the 20. Well, that was a slight exaggeration. I just like it when they get turned on and they go, wow. And then you want to stay in the 80. Just think how effective we would be if the 20 had three arms. That's what I'm saying. We don't even need 10. And the 80 would just be slapping themselves on the back. Boy, those guys really do good work. Where's the plan? I wish I could help, but I'm busy. Who's going to slap my back all the time if I'm doing work at the church? Well, see, a lot of times it's the 80s that are complaining about the stuff that he's not doing. Yeah, that's true.

It's like, well, I complain all the time about what are these chairs up. Right. I remember it's so funny. Once we were for church, we intentionally didn't put the chairs out. We put them backwards. We did something just completely, you know, like the whole point was nothing gets done if we don't all pitch in. And the people who scream the loudest were the people that really don't do anything. I think that was me. Probably was at the time. Out of the chairs. They were all like, hey! I mean, they were mad. There were people that were mad. And it's just like, dude, if you were here, it would have been done. Wouldn't it have been, you know? If you'd come maybe a half hour earlier. I mean, it was just an object lesson, basically. And what if the 20 didn't show up? The 80 would be pretty upset because their little comfort zone would be destroyed. Well, I suppose they could just go hold hands out in the yard. Kumbaya, my lord. I don't like this at all. I really wish I had known nothing about it. It drives me nuts. I'm going to compartmentalize people from now on. Don't do it. Look at you. 80?

Don't do it. We're going to put them on name tags. It was just for discussion purposes. The 80-20 is amazing. I hate this concept. I just absolutely hate it. Well, remember, this is not a church concept. This is a universal thing. I know, but I hate the whole thing. You know what? I would submit that it's not universal. That some guy thought of that, and a bunch of people read it and agreed to it because they thought that guy smelled like roses. And then have now looked at the world like that and compartmentalized it to the extent that now it sounds true because that's how everybody's looking at it. I disagree. In fact, I'll even go farther. It's organic. It's innate 80-20. So in a field of dandelions, 20% are shining like the breeze. The other 80% are curling away. I wish someone would let some sunshine in. Because I'm curling. Come on, guys in the front. Look at Jim Dandy going about his business. Look how tall he's growing. Craig Dandy, you're letting us down. You're a sad Dandy. So this is called the Pareto's Principle, the 80-20 rule?

Yeah, that's the jerk right there. Pareto's. Pareto. Pareto? You don't know the man. Yeah, you are. I've seen a chart called the Pareto chart. Great. It's on managementabout.com. It's all over Google. I tell you what, there's nothing I… So I've been reading a lot of job applications lately. Why is that? I don't want to share. It's like job applications. Apparently, I'm one of the 80. I don't do 80. I don't need to work. Like, everyone… So I've been reading job applications lately. You know, they post these jobs, and it says, here's what we want out of you. And there is… I tell you, when people write what you're going to be actually doing, I don't have any idea what they're talking about. They're like, being able to prioritize, you know, second, third blue movements in an upscale moving environment. I'm like, I couldn't even do that in my home environment. I don't even know what you're saying. Like, they're just…

When they talk, they talk in such ambiguous, motivational garbage. Like, I have no idea what they're saying. Are you trying to say I'm an idiot? No, no. Is that what we have? No, no. The blue movement. What is that? It was just a rapid example. Oh. I wasn't listening. Someone said that. I got distracted by the chat. Sorry. What did the chat say? We're still talking about the guy in the box. They're just like, just get over it. They're still trying to prove their points. Like, grow up. Daddy-o, grow up. Get over it. He loves the guy in the box. Yeah, okay. I'm with you. I know what's going on. He's still about it. Can we ban people from this? No, sorry. Don't worry.

We've tried. I'm almost certain it's for the exact same reason. You know, I've actually noticed I've been looking at some speaking of the opposite problem. I've been looking at resumes lately. Hey, man. I'm the 80. You're the 20. Hook me up. I can't agree. You're obviously the 80. You're Craig Dandy. Just pat me on the back. You don't have to give me a salary. Just tell me I'm all right. Yeah, things are going all right for you, buddy. No need. No need to aspire. Just hang back and know that we think you're okay. There's a job opening. But why? That's my question. You just appreciate me for what I am. Send me the check. I bought a back rake. I don't need anything else. You're using your second hand like a sucker. Well, you could have earned a third hand. That's what we give out in the 20. Everybody gets a third hand.

Dude, that really helps, man. Yeah. It's hot. And we just got a fresh breeze with that door open. That's sweet. I dig on a fresh breeze. Good job, Dan. That's what I'm here for. I was just going to wait for someone else to do it. I like to pick on myself as part of the 20. Yeah. Consider yourself vast in the glory of the core. The 80 man over here that was close to the door, he didn't open it. No, I signaled. Let's open it. I let the ship go. Can you guys in the 20 please open the door for me? Then he thought, well, self-important, Dan will open it. I'm doing this for Jesus. Dan did kind of strut away. Old Dan Dandy walking away from the door. Sitting back in his chair. Took care of that for Jesus. Welcome to the 20. God's people need a fresh breeze. I'll help it out. As a matter of fact, if there wasn't the 80, who could acknowledge me that I opened this door? Like, you couldn't define the 20 because there would be no one saying, look at all that work those 20 guys are doing.

It's true. Just be the 20 guys. There's no ministry for the 20 if there's no 80. But the 20 love the Lord just the same. They're doing it for God, not for the 80. That's the point. Motivation. The 80 sound like the peace pipe guys to me. They do. They sound like a hippie commune the way you explain them. Okay, this will really throw you off. They also say within the 20, there's an 80-20. Oh, yeah. As far as giving goes, that's even in the church. I don't know what to make of any of it. This is what I fear about middle America office jobs. This is what I think they talk about, how to motivate people. There was a whole book in the Old Testament called Numbers, and none of this crap was in it. Yeah, really? The Lord said nothing about 80-20. He was just saying a mass and things. Well, let's see. Okay, Jesus had 12 disciples. He took three aside. What's that? Is that about 20? I don't know. I'm just throwing the math out real quick.

No. Okay, after Jesus died. No, it is not. It's 25%. After Jesus. I said about. Look at the 20 making a distinction. You cut off your arm. We've got to go back. We've got to leave you at 20%. The three-armed guy, you're back there. Was there any of the disciples after Jesus was crucified that just said, well, he's gone now. I'm out. And they just walked away. Did nothing. We didn't hear much from Stephen. Leon. Leon. Stephen died. Stephen is the first martyr. You didn't hear much about him. I don't think Stephen was an apostle. He wasn't even an apostle. You're talking about Matthias? Yeah. That's who I meant when I said Leon. Same thing. Same thing.

I call all unknown people Leon. That's what his friends called him. That's what the 20 called him. I think Thomas had a ministry, didn't he? I think he had books. I think they all did something. He wrote books. What? He didn't make the New Testament. He didn't make it. He didn't make the cut. But very good books. I see someone. Showers books. They were pop-ups. Luke Reeson goes, come on, Matthias. It's the best we can do. Somebody. I think he made the first Catholic Church cut, though. Of course he did. I'm not sure. He's a saint. Who? Thomas. We all are. Are you talking about Matthias again? I am. Now, I would consider that empirically speaking, I'm not a saint because there are no pictures of me looking up like this.

Well, see, you're trying to let a man-made church define saints. Jesus says if you're a Christ follower, you're a saint. Look at me. So much for the 80-20. We're all saints. That's right. Just some are better than others. Some of us couldn't stop for the picture because they were busy doing stuff. They're more active. Well, actually, that's another good point. The guy that's painting the portrait is the doer, but if the guy he was painting wasn't part of the 80, he would never get him to stop long enough to paint him, which tells me that anybody that's been painted, lazy. Got time to sit around for hours while someone paints him. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I've never been painted. I'm the big time. That's true. When you meet a man of efficiency, he says, paint me while I'm sleeping. It's the best I can offer because otherwise I got so busy. Prop me up. Prop me up. Get that with the watercolor. I do not have the schedule of an 80% man. Yeah. This makes me sick to my stomach. I just can't stand this 80%.

I'm disgusted. It won't go away. I hope so. I'm just talking about that. I'm going to act like I've never heard of this before. I'm on an 80-20 bathing schedule. Yikes. But in this case, the 80 is the positive. It depends on your definition of positive. I bathe in the affirmative 80% of the time. Oh, yeah. That's freezable. Yeah. 80-20. I stunk on Sunday. How about that? I'm lucky I'm in the sound booth. I have a relative who did this one to seven. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The old one to seven ratio. One day on, seven days off? Six off. Six off. Yeah. Oh, that's not acceptable. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to know how he did it, though.

Was it? It was a lady. She? Was it unrespectful? At the end? You were aware of this person. You know this person. Oh. Yeah. Sorry. It was bothersome. Yeah. That's reasonable. Actually, some people can pull that off. But, actually, if the 80 floats around all natural, you know, light and fatty, it seems like you can get away with it. I suppose. Okay. What's the longest you've been without a shower? Go. Ben? Four days. Four? Yeah. Yikes. I was hoping to hire somebody who wouldn't seem outrageous. You have an outrageous number? Fifteen. I had a bet going.

How come that far? It was in high school. To be fair, it was before I met the woman. I'll bet. When did you meet me that week, did you? Why were you 15? I don't know. Me and Josh were going toe-to-toe. Oh, yeah. He won. We didn't take showers. We didn't have running water up in Wyoming last year. So, it was about a week. What do you mean? Did anybody go in the river? Did they have a river? Oh, it was in the mountains. It was ice cold. What do you mean? And besides, that's where you get drinking water. We're not going to bathe in that. What do you mean? I'm not following you. We were in Wyoming. We were in… What is it? It's unclear about this story. He was in Wyoming for a week, no running water. Very cold.

What are you missing? Can't get in. What do you mean? What do you mean? Why would you go? There was nowhere to shower. Why would you go somewhere? There was an outhouse. Why would you do that? It was fun. It was awesome. I don't know why somebody would go somewhere where you can't do anything. Oh, no. It was mountains. We went… We shot guns. You did what? You shot guns. We went hiking up like every day. It was a blast. That sounds all about fishing. It sounds like a reality show on the Testosterone Channel. We shot guns. We caught beavers with our hands. Showed us some of them guns. There's a whole group from church Sunday afternoon that went out shooting, and I was not able to go. Bummer. It's all the adventure pictures on Facebook today.

It's riveting. A lot of our gals. Be careful of our gals. They own the guns as well? I don't know who. I mean, a lot of people own them, but I don't know who are the gals. There were pictures of them shooting them, though. Hmm. Mike, are you saying you would have nothing to do with such a Wyoming trip? No. Really? No. Actually, I've heard from him before. He has a despise for nature. I don't like it at all. I'm not a camper or anything. Hanging around, doing nothing. It was a nice log cabin we were in. That sounds just terrible. It was fun. What do you do? I don't understand how you feel your day. Like, you get up in the morning, you walk outside, and then you eat, and then you just count down the hours until you eat again. You're like, well, I'll have to find something to do until I eat. And we had to have weapons, because there's bears and all kinds of animals out there. Yeah, see, I don't have to have any weapons, because I don't go where there's bears. There's cougars and stuff in Iowa now. Well, not in my house, they're not.

Actually, not in my in-law's house. I don't know if it's a current home. But I'm filling out ambiguous applications, hoping I gain my way. I'm in the 80. What do you want from me? I don't get any bells. What do you expect? Just affirm me. Let me know I am loved. Tell me I'm a bum, but a loved bum. Jesus doesn't eat anything more out of you. Jesus wants you to be a third wheel. Is there any way you can raise the water bill at your house? Okay, so let me ask you this question. What is the approach? It sounds like if the attitude of the 80, perhaps, is that the 20 are in the capes and phone moves, right? Look at the super Christian going about his business. Let's look at the 20. How do they engage the 80? How do you do it? How do you do it without the things? You can't do anything about someone's feeling that you're pompous. If you're doing the Lord's work, you're doing the Lord's work, and that's the deal. Right. Take a 20 without the baggage. Make the 80. Can the 80 look at the 20 without the baggage? Maybe the 80 is giving them baggage they don't even have.

The point is, most people will let someone do something if they'll do it. So, as long as that 20% keeps piling on to themselves, all the stuff they're doing. See, sometimes the 20 brings it on themselves, because they're doing this and this and this and this and this. And the 80, they're saying, well, I'd do something, but I don't know what to do. Sometimes it's just they don't know what to do. If someone would just take me by the hand. Here, here, here. We got some stuff available. Yeah. Well, but that's the thing. I mean, some of the impression is people don't like to be put upon. I heard somebody told me at work, there was a story about a guy who came in to a church and he liked the service and he was there for like four to six weeks or whatever. And then they came up and the pastor shook his hand and said, you know, we got a bunch of opportunities here, just if you're interested in any. Guy was gone the next Sunday. Gone. He's been put upon. He doesn't want to do that. He went to the mega church here in town to where he could, where he could blend in. I mean, that, you know, put that guy in the 80s. Is that wrong? Is that wrong to have said, hey, got some opportunity? It shows that he isn't very connected with Jesus, right? I mean, well, I mean, it doesn't mean it's like, I mean, do you need, do you need the mega church so people like that will continue to, to even catch a line on the Lord's word? Or does it look like, like, look, it's been presented to you. You know, you said, you said, no, you know, you shake your dust off your feet.

You can say, hey, you know, I gave it, I gave it like the Lord gave it. You know, I mean, the Lord's word is what it is. I can't change it. I can't amend it. It is. But they would make the same argument for the guy on the podium, for the guy in the stool out at the farmer's market. He's just giving the Lord's word. Eh, that's probably true, I guess. I'm not a fast enough thinker, so I'm kind of trying to stall here. I'm trying to process what he said. What do you think of chocolate muffins? Yeah. They're an abomination. Oh. Yeah, but there's not an exclamation point after everything that's in the Bible. Like, every time the Lord says something, it's not an exclamation point. I'm mad, I'm mad, I'm mad, I'm mad like that guy. That's not an accurate representation. I'm not, again, let's be fair to that. He's not necessarily angry. He's just loud. Does he furrow his brow? To me, he is just loud and irritating. Like what? Does he have a funny voice? No, no. It's his loudness. His yelling.

Well, that's what I'm saying. That's an exclamation point. But it's not really angry. He's not yelling. He's not angry yelling. He's just yelling for people to hear him. What is, okay, I'll give you my honest appraisal of that situation. Yeah. I would hear that guy and I would go, he's obnoxious. Why do I think he's obnoxious? Because I'm a soft Christian. Because I've gone soft. That message should resound, whether he's at the top of his lungs, ugly, smelly, stinky, that message is good to hear on any street, at any time, anywhere. I would think guilty of my, I would think, I should not think ill of this man. That would be my thought. Truthfully. The concern, though, isn't, because I think me and the chat can agree here that he's factually accurate and the message is clean. The question is whether he is, we're losing opportunity to reach out to folks based upon being obnoxious. I think it's because he's out of place. You know what I'm saying? Like, if he were far away, then yelling would be appropriate. You know, if he was closer, then I guess there's like no reason to be yelling unless you're trying to, I guess, trying to draw attention to himself. I suppose that's the reason. Psalm 119 says, how sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth. I gain understanding from your precepts, therefore I hate every wrong path.

It doesn't say, I love it when you cram your word down my throat. You know, the scripture is always presented as sweet. I'll shout it from the mountaintops, is that? Well, that's a shout of explanation of like, woohoo, you know, yeah, I mean, that's different than scum. It's a whole different thing. Vince says he's not like that, though. I don't know this guy. He's not angry. He's not, he's just loud. He's just loud. I want to know what he's saying. Can we videotape him? So you're talking old school, like between the gospel of the early 1900s, people got on the corners and shouted. Yes. Okay. Yes. But that's before wide available media was available to just talk regular. They were only shouting because there's no way to amplify them. If the man owned a microphone and a speaker, he'd be good to go. Now, so here's what I think, though. There's something to be said for, you can't always wait for people to come to you. Like, I mean, it's, I think it's disingenuous to say, like, for example, well, we record a radio show that centers on Jesus Christ, people will be reached for God because they will flock. No, they might. God might send people this way, whatever, right? But I think it's a little bit assumptive to say you don't have to, like, that it's not necessary to be out, to be out, like, that that guy could be reaching somebody for Jesus

who otherwise might not have heard it simply for his presence. We're not disagreeing there. And he'll reach someone we can't because there are other people who will turn this on and say, this is stupid. This is just a pile of, you're wasting my time. Yeah, and then the same guy might walk down the farmer's market and be hit in the face with some loud-talking dude. Which is why, I mean, honestly, in Scripture, you see all styles of evangelism. You see Andrew who goes up and says to his brother, hey, I just found the Messiah, come and follow me. You know, this is awesome. And you have, you know, Peter who goes sprinting into a place and knocking heads together and, you know, and the same as Apostle Paul. There's just different ways. But you're not a kid. You don't like the shout-down version. Yeah, it's just not my thing, I guess. I just look at it, it just turns me off totally. I don't care what it is. It could be, we'd come talking about, you know, what kind of soap do you use? And I'd be like, dude, if you're going to yell at me, I don't care. Are you zestfully cleaner, aren't you? No! I don't want to be. So, well, so I guess… That's my personality. Yeah, so I mean, I guess it could be a personality thing. But I guess the thing is, I don't know, I don't think, it's unfair to dismiss the fact that a person like that could very well be reaching people.

I don't know, like to me, I'm not sure it's doing the greater good. But I think there are people who are turned off by that and have misconceptions about the Christian community that are amplified by that right there. I don't think they're getting a good glimpse of God with that. Because the big thing that people miss, and I think this is how you get shallow relationship with God, is missing the relational aspect between you and Jesus Christ. If we say it falls back on your relationship, it's kind of the fire and brimstone thing. Because it is still the hell and damnation, accurate or otherwise, that's still what it is. And sometimes that gets to the right place. But I'm not sure that, and maybe it's just our day and age, where that reinforces things. And people have learned the wrong thing. They believe in an unloving, uncaring God. That's what they believe in because they don't know it. They know little of His grace. They know everything of His punishment. And that's exactly what we're talking about. It's the other half of that, is they believe in a self-massaging, love, love, love, that's all there is, God, too. You know what I'm saying? They're not getting the relational aspect either. That's what we're talking about, the mutant. Kids growing up with a mutant version of Christ. There's either into the spectrum. Either they believe that your life is to feel guilty and that you can't measure up and you'll never make it. And all you do is worry about all the things that you've done wrong today. Or the Lord just wants me to be happy and everything's sunshine and birdies. And both of those true extremes, they're missing the relationship part.

Because your dad, most people, a version of a father comes the exact same way. You don't have the Bible reference to discipline. Your own dad is going to discipline you. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you. It just means that sometimes you need discipline. The Lord's the exact same way. It's not just close your eyes, throw a paddle, and say, there you go, unknown fellow, out you are. So the person who's, let's just put this in some sort of a scriptural thing. It's about the guy who went to hell and he's looking up. Does he care if that message was soft or hard? Did he just miss it? Did he just miss it? If I was in that place, I'd go, I don't care how it was delivered. I missed it. I should have listened. That was the Lord talking to me. That's true. I just think that, my gosh, God is God. If we're going to think rightly about him, that message is going to reach somebody. Well, that's true. We've talked about this before. If you don't know Jesus Christ, it ain't because you ain't heard of him. You know what I'm saying? It's because you don't want to. There's no way. Ask everybody whether you go to church or not go to church. You know who Jesus Christ is supposed to. And so if you choose to get into a relationship with him or not, there's ways that we can nurture that relationship as fellow Christ followers.

And there's ways that we can help your relationship or point you in the right direction. But, I mean, it's not because you haven't heard of Jesus. Do you think there's any confusion on people who do they think rightly about Jesus? Well, yeah. I think there is some confusion at this point. Sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the church has caused it. Well, that's exactly right. It has caused it. Yes, it has. Tell me more. Tell me more. That's really all I got to say. Dan. Because, you know, there are angry churches and there are powder puff churches. Yeah, and we've talked about this. I mean, what's the example that people see? Westboro, you know? Yeah. That's the example they get? You know, people protesting soldiers' funerals and claiming to represent, you know, Jesus in it? Are you kidding me? You know, I mean, it's not even close. Right. It's embarrassing. And then, boy, they're going to be in some real trouble when they come around. But, you know, that's their deal.

And the megachurch model, it's purely a business. I mean, they throw some Jesus in there. And I don't want to be critical of all, you know, I can't speak for all megachurches. Well, there are some businesses that follow the Lord's Word just as they should be. Yeah, yeah. But I know they consciously make decisions to kind of tone things back, to appeal to a wider audience because that brings in more, you know. Well, I think that kind of goes along with our discussion, too. It's like, you know, do you cater? Speak the truth in love. That's Scripture right there. Well, that's the thing, because I think sometimes people get lost in the, you know, if we can just get more people in here, we can get them to Christ, you know. But the thing is, if you're not, if you're representing Jesus how He is to be represented, if you're not representing the Bible exactly how the Lord has it written, what are you bringing them into? You know, you're gaining, you know, it's like we're filling this place. This is going great. You know, maybe you've done well, maybe you haven't, you know, but if you're not putting the Lord's Word out there exactly how the Lord set it out, you haven't gained anything. You've just got people in your building, you know. I'm not real satisfied that my testimony about the Lord Jesus Christ could bring anybody to a conclusion. What do you mean? I mean, I think I would think too highly of myself if something I'm doing or my walk or something is something that's going to lead someone to a deeper relationship or to Christ, period. Because it all comes from something beside me, not inside of me, not around me. It comes from Jesus Himself in a relationship. I just don't, I would think, I think too much of myself if I think that my walk is going to turn someone on to be just like Jesus. That's not possible. That ain't going to happen. Well, it's the story of Jesus working through your life. Yeah. I mean, it's Jesus' story. You're just a small part of it. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Like a word. Like a hello or some sort of kindness. But to think that my testimony wouldn't cut it. No way. My walk wouldn't cut it. Well, I disagree with that because, I mean, if the Lord's involved with it, what part of it won't? You know what I'm saying? Okay, that's a good point because that's thinking rightly about God. That's saying that everything is involved in the process of getting people saved, and I agree with that. But to think that my walk will somehow, my 20% walk will somehow get someone turned on. No, it's all by the Holy Spirit. It's all done by the Lord Jesus Christ, and it's all done through this relationship. And I just happen to be there at a certain point in time, but I originally have nothing to do with it. Well, but I think that's the exact realization that makes it because, I mean, if you're saying that, I mean, it's that exact thought that will, I think, be the example for people. Do you know what I'm saying? Like when you can say, look, I have nothing here. Everything I am is the God that I know, and everything I am is the forgiveness that I've been given, and everything that I have is the grace that he's shown me. You know, what other example do you need? You know, I mean, and everything. I mean, you know, some guy will come to you and say, look, I've had a problem with drugs in the past, and I did this, and I did that, and I'll say, I haven't. Right. You know, but you and I are saved by the same grace, brother. Absolutely. You look exactly at the same, and my sin is your sin. It's the same. You know, the Lord sees it no different. We're both two kids who failed our father, and just look at them and say, you know, I got nothing. And he says, well, good, because I got everything.

We're covered. You know, and so I think that testimony is just the worst statement. In fact, I was talking to a guy about this this week. You know, you always have people in your church who have, you know, as far as I can see it, you know, used more of the Lord's grace than I ever have. You know what I'm saying? That have been far out, and then the Lord's brought them back. And I look at that guy, and I think, sometimes I wish I was him. Sometimes I wish I saw how far the Lord's grace goes, so I can appreciate it more than I do. You know what, though, but, I mean, I understand what you're saying, because they're really cool stories to hear. Well, I went this far, and blah, blah, blah, and God brought me out of it. And those are powerful stories. But you know what? I got a pretty powerful story, too. God saved me from 25 years of sexual addiction, because I never had it. And he saved me from 25 years of drug addiction, because I've never had a drug in my life, except for Coca-Cola and, you know, caffeine. And look what it's done to you. See, look at me now. You know, God has saved me from a broken marriage and adulterous affairs, because I've never had one. Because through his grace, he led me to his scripture and his truth. I'm like, wow, okay. I've known how, I've followed my, as close as I can. I screw up. I'm not perfect. I'm not saying that. But, you know, as much as I can, I follow his word. And so I've not done some things. I've not followed the pattern of my family because of scripture. You know, my dad had girlfriends all over the place. You know, and that's what I was taught, that it was normal.

You know, they took me in fourth grade, took me into a bar and introduced me to his girlfriend. And mom's at home, and I'm going, this is weird, you know. So, you know, because of the grace of God, I've never done that. You know. Well, I could definitely see that. So that's a pretty cool story, I think. Yeah, well, no, I agree with that, too. So, yeah, so stop it. I guess it's… Wimp! If only I have examples of the grace in my life. It's like when I can find a prostitute, so I can say, God brought me out of it. Lord, show me how far your grace can go. I'm going to kill that guy. Will you forgive me? Awesome. I know what you're saying. It's tempting if you haven't done some of that. Well, it's actually a conversation that I had with a non-believer. Because it's easier for them to fathom, you know, what the Lord has done for somebody in their same situation than it has their progression throughout life, what he's kept them from. So, it actually kind of comes off as, oh, praise Jesus, I'm in the super Christian community. I haven't done all this. I'm in the 20%. I'm in the 20%. I'm like super. I've done all the stuff you've done. I mean, you have to be careful.

But you can in yourself say, wow, thank you, God. And at the same time, just be amazed. We have some cool stories. It's just a church of all these people who've been so far and God snatched them from the flames and they have really cool stories. And, you know, you can celebrate both. Yeah. Well, that's true. I guess maybe the main point of that is no one goes to see the movie where the guy doesn't do anything for two hours. You know? So, they go see the movie where the guy's got some trouble and redemption happens, you know? So, you're on the Lord entertain me by your grace tagline. Do they have those movies coming out? I'll just say it. That's a real fine line. That's a real fine line because I, you know, I don't, the story. Embarrassing. You know, the story of my life. It's like the Bible's full of stories. Cool stories. But I would want to run from sharing mine. I'd want to share the power and understanding of knowing God because I think it's just setting up for some problems for me. Attacks. What do you mean? I think you set yourself up for attacks from the dark side and Satan and those and when you start touting your story and you're making a difference and Satan's going to come and

get you. Yeah, but once again, it's not your story to have. It's the Lord's story, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's God's story. It's just you saying. It says the character I chose to use in this one is Rick Lee. Yeah. And I put him at 80% and he's causing trouble in there. He's riling up the 80. I put him at the 20 for a while. No, he's anti-riling up the 80. I love the 80. He's toning the 80 down. The 80 would jump around. He said, all right, fellas, take it easy. Take it easy. Let's not get too excited. Rick, here's the deal. The 80's getting too fired up to be in the 20. I want you to go in. We've lost some. I want you to sedate him. You know, I think, though, there's some simplicity in some of this, which is my story is my story. It is what it is. What I've done up to today, what I will do, that's me. That's what I've done with my life, good or bad, it is what it is. Who God is, he is who he is.

He's going to do what he's going to do. I don't think there's no play here. There's no angle. Like, in fact, when we try to embrace the angle, I think is where we start running into trouble. So, you know, the only thing that I can do in my Christian testimony is give you what I got. I know the grace that I've been given. I know what the steps I took to get here. And that is to the extent of which I can give an adequate testimony. The more I try to bend that and make it something that maybe it isn't, or maybe that I think it will be to you, I think the more we walk away from the simpleness of following Christ and understanding that relationship, my relationship, and my place in the world, and how God wants to use me. And so, you know, the minute I think of ways to complicate things is the minute that I've taken my eyes off something. And, you know, I can only give you what I got. And it is foolish to me, and I'm going to find myself in agreement with the man on the chat as much as I don't want to. As much as I don't want to admit that God will use people in whatever situation or however he wants to, he will use that man on the box in the same way that whatever circumstances I've been in, I've either created or got myself into, like it or not, God can and will use that to further his kingdom. And so I have no reason to run away from that. So I still disagree, man on the box, to the extent that I think he's abrasive in turning people away. We're losing more than we're gaining. We're hardening hearts versus bringing people in by the medium. However, I agree that it is foolish to think that God will not use these things, you know, how he wants to. And I don't need to shine or color my past or my future any differently than what I've been given because it all can be used for God's glory because I know that is the ultimate purpose. See, I have spent years talking to the dude who has been turned off by that dude. I mean, most of the people I talk to that is enfranchised by the church, they're like, okay, I believe in God, but that church thing is just stupid, you know, because they've met too many people like that, too many of the 20 percenters maybe, that are just abrasive and they're just like, you know what, I'll just go worship God on the boat.

Of course, they don't usually go out on the boat and worship on Sundays anyway. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying? So I guess that's why I react so strongly is I've talked to so many people who've been run over by these people, you know, spiritually, and they're just not interested. Just leave me alone. I hear this junk. Yeah. Well, and I think that's, you know, maybe some of the clarity here is God didn't, well, and stop me if I'm wrong because I'm not a Bible scholar, but I don't remember saying where God sends out and says, be a bully. He doesn't want bullies. I mean, he's got grace. He's got truth. He doesn't need bullies. You know, we're to go out and love. So I think some of the abrasiveness, maybe the issue is some of the abrasiveness is out of love. Like, we think that this is what you need and I'm going to come after you. That's the, you know, get him with the rod. People go after people with their own personality. Yeah. And that's just personality. God uses us as we are. He doesn't, like, completely change our personalities to go do something. I mean, you know, like when I preach, I'm not, like, a totally different person. It's just, I hope for years I am there. Dan's not debonair. His hairstyle remains the same. No.

Yeah. What you see is what you get. That's kind of sorry. Sorry about that. Actually, see, there's where you don't have to blame God for that deal. God kind of set me up for this deal. You know, I just do what he tells me. You better talk him out of it. You have to deal with it. That's not my deal. You don't have much to work with. But, you know, I think that's pretty true. I think sometimes, as a church, we lose the people for the message. You know, like, we become carrier pigeons instead of, you know, just the carrier. Maybe that's that. We get so excited about the message, we could give her about the people. We just feel like we're doing our job. We've got to spread the seed. We're going to do it. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. I handed out the pamphlets. I wore the shirt. Yeah. You know, why don't you love Jesus yet? I invited people to church. Yeah, it's probably the same deal. Well, you know what? The exact same thing that you were talking about there a minute ago is probably the exact

same thing that we can work on personally for, you know, talking about my relationship with God. You know, it is what it is. My life is how it is set up. You know, and I've lived it. You know, and, you know, God's going to do what he's going to do, and I'm going to do the best I can. You know, I mean, what other story do you need? You know, that's the same story that keeps you going. Yeah. You know, the fact that's the same God that keeps you, you know, coming back to church every Sunday and praying, you know, every day. And looking into his word, you know, why do you think anybody's any different? Yeah, you know, I think maybe one of the things that lacks my, and it doesn't lack, but from my perspective probably did in my personal testimony is the realization of what I have. Like, you know, and this is something we touched on a little earlier, you know, do I have peace? Not everybody has peace, you know? Yeah. You know, there's not a lot of things that freak me out because I know where they're coming from, you know? There's a death. I'm sad, but I get it. You know, if there's something wild that goes on, I have somewhere to go. I have someone to talk to. You know, there's things that can really throw someone off the handle. And legitimately, I mean, we are still human. We're susceptible to human things. I mean, Jesus wasn't void of emotion.

You know, Jesus wept. Money changer. He turned over a table. I mean, he demonstrated human emotion. He's not a stalwart God that doesn't understand where we're coming from. But I didn't use it correctly. No, you didn't. And I knew it. And I don't even know what it means. But you're stalwart. You hear that, Daniel? It just sounded impressive. I just might not. That's what I was going for. I was looking for like a firm word. Otherwise, I couldn't believe it. Ben, he knows what he's talking about. I got it. Oh, yeah. So, but, you know, like all the, I think sometimes I miss, I think it's the same example of, you know, I'm not an adulterer. God has, you know, I am not, I haven't murdered anybody yet. You know, I try to. Yeah, but why don't you pick a lesson, you know, that's a very. Oh, sorry. That's an extreme. People like big examples. So, whatever. People like, I cater to the people. I'm talking to the 80% right now.

I don't need to get them one by one like we've been talking about for the last hour. I just sprinted it around. I don't slap the elderly. Okay. That's good. I don't malnourish the dog. Oh, there you go. Intentionally. Who needs to eat twice a day? What a glutton. You know, you've been talking about the grace of God. Of course, it's an all-consuming thing. But, you know, you got the, we've been talking about this 80-20. We're kind of grinding it down. It's like the 20%. I think God has more grace for the 20. Jesus has more grace for the 20 come Judgment Day. Because the 80, I don't think Jesus is going to do really well with a self-absorbed Christian. Sure. I don't think he's going to do real well with that. He's not. Whether 80 or 20. Yeah. But he would go, well, the 20 was trying. Maybe they didn't get it right. You know, they're attempting. You've had some bad experience with the 20. It's kind of like you're painting the 20 in a fairly broad brush. We've got two more hours here.

We're going to renew an extension tonight. We're going to say what Rick has wrong with the 20. That's going to be our whole next service. In fact, I'd like to meet these jerk 20s that you hang out with. These guys sound terrible. What would be more, I don't know, offensive to God the Father than someone not accepting his message of love and grace and absorbing everything and nothing really taking, you know? Like a Pharisee. Yeah. Just taking. You're talking about Pharisees in the church. They do all this stuff for all the wrong reasons. But I think God had more grace for those if they understand the significance of Jesus Christ in their life. But the 80%, if they're just sitting and absorbing, boy, that would be offensive, I think, to God. He would go, okay, I love the 80 and I want them to worship here and I want them to get it and I want them to understand it. But if they soaked all this up and they really didn't get it, that would be upsetting. Yeah. Whose side are we on now? Are we on the 80 side? Yeah, you've got the Swiss sides. Like I said, they're no… Is your middle name Hussein? I brought up the 20-80 just to stimulate some great conversation. I think it's a good thing to do. We're going to play this for weeks, though. It's a rule. It's a rule.

And it's there. I've soiled myself. I'm so confused. What's going on here? About 20% worth. It almost sounds like, be wary of overachieving for the Lord lest you piss him off. Like, that's your description of the 20. It's the guy that goes, you know, reads the Bible and applies it, maybe to the offense of the guy that isn't doing anything, very well may need more grace because you've horsed the Lord off with your ambition. This Sunday is going to be a total retraction of the past five weeks. We're never going to get anything done. Sorry. Sorry, everybody. I don't have to serve in the nursery. Yes! Be a bunch of half-naked kids running around the same way. Get Johnny Strongarm. Who's in charge of these kids? We had 18 kids in the nursery Sunday, and they moved us to a different location, and we threw them in a corner, and then the corner was not big enough, so they expanded the corner to put tape. It is an awful situation. We're trying to get that fixed by next Sunday, but wow. Living in a school as a church building is crazy. When you rent a school, and they kind of decide all of a sudden one day, I know this has been working for you really great, but we're going to move you to this other side of the building. You know, we're a guest.

What do you do? You leave. We leave. We left 20% of the babies in the other hallway, and we figured that out. We're not leaving. We're going to 66th and some other place, and you're trying to find a place to do it. You find another place. But you know, churches in the coffee shop, and on this little, what do you call it? I'm 50, so I don't know. Whatever you call this. I'm over the hills. You're alive. You know, the churches and the comings and goings of your everyday life, you know, with the community that you are surrounded with every day. What was the hip word that you were not catching on to? Community? What is this technology we're enjoying here? Internet? Radio? Okay, there you go. On the net? Yeah. Jesus? The hipsters call it the net? Just hear internets on computers now. It's the link. It's fun. I want a free iPad. What do I do with this?

So what were you saying? That's a long time ago. Mike, you need to write some sort of book. I would like to hear your extended thoughts on this 80-20 business. I'm pretty sure I would have to write 80-20 this is, and then I'd have to put a bunch of symbols of what I really think of what's going on here. Like, I think it just sounds like a bunch of crap. I can't stand it. It could very well be. Oh, man. It could very well be. It just seems like you can't win either way. It's like, Lord, I just want to sit and soak up your word and feel enlightened by the Spirit. And you're like, you're lazy. And you're like, Lord, I just want to do your work and play it out like you've written in the Bible. Tone it down. You're making the lazy man feel lazy. I can't have the lazy guy feel lazy because then he will do even less for the Lord. It sounds like an awful situation. Your ambition detracts you from Christ. Your laziness detracts others from Christ. There's no winning. We lose. It's like a fat guy rolling by a 24-7 fitness center and being mad at the guy running going, oh, come on. Yeah. I'm trying to be fat here. We've got to rub it in.

You're in so with me. I was happy with myself. I wore a sleeve hurt. I was ready to go. Look at Johnny Jesus over there running for the Lord. You make me sick. I don't know. I think there's a hesitancy in becoming and feeling in a place that you're comfortable. Like that I sit here, I soak it in, I love the Lord. Because I think the assumption is that when you get in that relationship with God, you're motivated to serve. I mean, the biblical culture is a culture of service. Jesus was our example as a servant to the thought that I can just soak it in and hang it out. And it's the guy that's trying to serve that runs the road. He takes the risk, but he takes the risk for God. I mean, try that out at home. Honey, I just want to absorb your love. I don't really want to participate in anything. It seems to me like… Woman, give me some food. It seems to me like none of this is a problem if it's genuine. Yeah. Like if you're genuinely waiting for the Lord to tell you where to go, hang out all you want. If you're genuinely fired up to get what you want, what the Lord has you to do, whatever. And you know what? It's none of my business what the Lord has you doing. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like standing on a box. Why you got to validate the chat and their trust Jesus man yelling at the farmer's market? I don't know. I don't know if I believe what I've just said. I felt very strongly. It sounded very nice. You're the good to make solid points and I go, yeah. Yeah, right. I thought I had one this time and now I'm not even sure if I meant it. Can you rewind that? This is awful. What did I say? I can't even say anything. You think maybe, so hold on, just to catch up with the chat, following Jesus doesn't necessarily imply service? You like that over there? That sounds like something you'd dig on. I'd dig on that. I'd dig on that. Wait a minute. What type of service? Like no service at all? But I mean, Jesus was a servant. If he's the example. Like I follow Jesus in a dark room with the doors closed and tape over the windows? Feed me, oh man. The relationship with the fathers is sufficient for him. The relationship.

The relationship's sufficient. Well, that's, but like. If that's all you accomplished, that's sufficient. Well, agreed. But why provide the example? Why provide Jesus as the example, as a servant, if we're not intending to follow that example as servants? Wham! Only to say. Thanks, Mike. I really need a wig man. Point? Now I'm back to where I'm comfortable. Wham! Why is Jesus the, why do we promote Jesus as the best example, as a servant, servant leadership, someone who's a servant? Why do we promote that? Well, he died on the cross for my sins. It would have been impossible for me to have. I think it's implicit why we promote it. The question is, is why, why are we saying it's permittable to, it's, permit ignoring it for some people. The 20% have to use him as the example. The 80% get to say, well, just, my relationship with the Father is enough, which is true. From a grace perspective, it is absolutely true. But the question is, from an example, why do we get to ignore that part? And when he washed the disciples' feet right before going to the cross, you know, and had this great lesson on being a servant, he washed them all. He didn't just wash the 20%.

Which means I have to wash the dishes at the neighbor's house like we were talking about. No, the feet. See, that'd be more chance. Go over to your neighbor's house. Feet. Your feet are dirty. Actually, that would, that's an assault. Like, they could persecute you, or prosecute for an assault if you just ran up and started washing the guys' feet. That'd be creepy if someone tried to wash my feet. Yeah, they could. Especially, I still have half of a Hawkeye emblem on my big toe that my daughter put on there. Sock changer! My whole family's like, why is that still on there? It was a gift. I think that's more points than, how long ago was that? That was quite a while ago. Yeah, that's bad, Dan. What? You haven't been loofing your feet. I don't, I don't. Did you ever use that loofah? I have. I've used it a few times. What do you think? It's, it's, it's… It's teary, isn't it? Yeah!

It's kind of like sandpaper. I kind of like it, because I figured… You think it's doing more than your regular barcode? I feel like this is like taking off three layers of skin. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. You know, I used to wash my face with lava soap in high school? Oh, I've done that. Yeah. It's been a few years. It wards off acne. Because other soap just kind of clean. Lava takes the skin off. Yeah, it's going to take the skin off. And so acne can't grow if there ain't no skin. I had this figured out. You're like the dude on Planet of the Apes. That's like saying avoiding leprosy by just, you know, filtering out layers of skin. Yeah. How do you do it? You don't have leprosy. What's your secret? That's a good point. I don't have leprosy. Praise the Lord. I don't think about that in my personal testimony. The Lord has kept leprosy away from me. And it seemed like a common affliction.

I'm going to make sure to thank everybody who called in this evening. I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to get too much of the calls. Someone's been on hold for an hour and 45 minutes. Nobody called in. Mike shining it on. It was 80% calling. That's our problem. They finally got juiced up to do something. 200% wouldn't take the call. People only got 80%. You know what? We're doing a radio show. We're cool and all. We can't be taking your phone call. We can't be bothered. What are you, sitting on your couch or something at home? We're over here working. That sounds about right. Look at us. Call Jimmy Swagger. Yeah, you could have called in. You missed it. You missed it, Dad. We could have had that conversation over the air. All right. He's the pro-trust Jesus. The pro-Jesus box man? I'm the anti-trust Jesus guy? I got exactly…

That's not the position I wanted. That's not what I'm saying. You follow him off the path. We're going to have to talk to this guy again. Anyway. Bring him in. Call him up. You've been listening live from the path on Des Moines Amplified.com. Thanks so much for being with us here tonight. Thanks to Rick Lee for coming in and visiting the studio. We'll definitely have you back. If you're willing, you're going to have to come up with some other… A new number. Subversive principles. 70-30 by the time you come back, I'm going to be mad. I didn't feel too abused. I would return on request. Okay. But I will not bring up the 80-20. Please don't. Mike's going to keep it. I'm never going to forget about it. I'm going to tattoo it on my back with my third arm. Doing all the work. You can see what's up back there. You can catch us during the week at livefromthepath.org. You can sign up for the podcast. Again, for those of you who abandoned the podcast, we are back to audio only. I'm sorry for the double posts.

I agree. That's irritating. You can check our blog. If you want to interact with us on that blog, please do so. You can check out our YouTube channel and sign up for the newsletter. Everybody I've signed up for the newsletter, by the way, I've done against their wishes. Nobody's left. So if you email me, I will add you to the newsletter. We could probably put the whole church newsletter on there. Let's do it. I don't freaking do that. Let's put them on there. I'll take it. Okay. So what are you excited for the newsletter? We will see you next week. We are two weeks away from the man show. The man show. Are you prepared for that, Dan? Should I be pumping iron and stuff? You're supposed to be prepared. We're going to talk about the biblical man in today's culture. Ooh. Tough subject. What does today's man look like? Why he's a big Nancy. Does he measure up? Does he hang his linens on the… That's the question for the biblical man.

Does he use hangers or fold? Does he have shoulder nipples? Does he do a lupa? He obviously does. Of course he does. All right. We will see you next week. Thanks for joining us on Live from the Path on Des MoinesAmplified.com.