Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston, Proper. You are live from the Path. My name is Ben Pooh. Thanks for being here. Happy Memorial Day, Dan. Can you really say happy Memorial Day? It doesn't seem right. Yeah, right. That's not right. Is there a better way to say it? Have an enjoyable Memorial Day?

I don't know. I think you just say thanks. Thanks Memorial Day? If you were to greet somebody and wanted to acknowledge that today was a holiday, how would you say so? You would say, hey, it's Memorial Day. Thank the vets who gave their lives. Do you usually walk up to a stranger and your greeting includes instructing them on how to live their life? I do. I notice you haven't wiped your face for a while. Excuse me, sir. I think you just go, if you see a fella and you say, hey, Memorial Day.

Right, right? Yeah. And just wait to see if they're excited about it. That's not cool. I guess I just generally don't acknowledge it in a casual setting. Wouldn't you treat Easter the same way? Yeah, I don't ever say. I think happy Easter sounds funny. People say it, but it's just kind of like, I don't know. Well, actually, no, happy Easter makes sense. Easter is a celebration.

Yeah, Easter. That makes a lot of sense. Happy Good Friday does not make sense. Right. Yeah. You know, I made the mistake of calling a Catholic on Good Friday because I was working. What are you doing? I was working, and he's a guy that I work with, and I called him up. I'm like, look, dude, I don't know why you're not answering the phone, but I really need some information here. And then I thought about it halfway through the day and thought, oh, it's Good Friday. I look like a real religious duke.

Wait, do they not work on Fridays? Yeah, I take day off. Do they have like a worship? I don't know. We should totally do that. They take the day. Do they really? Yeah, take a day. I think we should do that. I'm going to start doing that. Yeah.

I'm in. Man. Anyway, you're listening live from the path. Thanks for being here. We, as always, are here every Monday night, 10 to midnight. Actually, this is a special Memorial Day show. Everything is half off, which means we're only broadcasting for an hour. We will be here from 10 to 11 tonight. We're going to take that extra 11 to midnight slot to spend time with family or go to bed. Wake them up. Hey, I'm here.

Get up. What are you doing? It's going to be awesome. Yeah. And coming up in the weeks following, next week, Ashton Powers will be in studio sharing his music and his… Groove it. Yeah. Please don't do that. I told you, five bucks I'd pay for you never to act like that. And you froze to accept it.

I have not received my money. You haven't stopped doing it yet. I don't know why that was even important. He's going to hate us. That was important. This is going to be a debacle. All right. The one and only appearance of Ashton Powers on Live from the Path next week. Sorry, Ashton. Oh, man. Also, the week after, Echo will be in studio.

He'll be our first hip-hop artist. Will be the first hip-hop artist. He's Locust. He's Locust. See? I knew you'd fall for it, you big dummy. He's a local guy. He's a local guy. He's on, you can find him on Pulse 99.5, and he'll be in studio. He's going to perform live. We're also going to take a listen to some of these.

He's got a fresh track coming out. We're going to take a listen to that. Dan will not be here because we decided that Dan was just a smidge too uncool to be in here with. There was hip-hop artist. So, what's the name, Echo? What's that name? Is that hip dash-hop? Is there a dash in it? Because I did a dash once, and I felt very white-out. You Locust. Hold on while I pump up my sneakers.

That really hurts. Dan Double Hoops Hudson. Can I spell jams with a Z? Can I? I think I should battle him. I think he should be on, and then I'll come on next week and do a rap. Mike. And we'll see. Lay down on a beat. We'll see if Daniel can start. Oh, it can't be freestyle.

What? He gets it prepared, doesn't he? Oh, yeah. That's old school. It can't be freestyle. I don't freestyle. Let me pen the paper for a minute, and I'll come back and drop this on you like it's something fierce. If it's freestyle, it'll start out with, Roses are red. Violets are blue. So, I can have something to think of, to rhyme.

That's the only kind of, like… I think that's the telltale sign that you can't freestyle. And you have to bring words to the table already. Here's the word you could use. Give me a scenario. Just kidding. Keep with the bug theme. Keep referring to him as a locust. I'm a cicada. You better wait a… Things of this nature.

Oh, yeah. He's going to have an awesome time. It's tough being the coolest guy in the room, you know? I know. I would say, don't we often have this problem? No one knows what to do with Dan. So, your mom's fat. That'll be the best. It's the best ever. That'll tell you what the stiff competition was to make in the one-year anniversary footage. That didn't make it.

It's true. That didn't make it. So, was your mother fat? It was a legitimate question. I don't think it's necessary, maybe. Wasn't that Tim Cooper? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Tim. We haven't seen Tim since. No.

No. He's good people. His poor ailing mother. Got a note from his mother that week. You're not allowed to play with Danny Hudson. Sorry, I just think of him protesting on how cool Dan is. But, ma, he spills jams with a Z. Speaking of protesters, did you see the anti-protesters that were protesting the Westboro Baptist Church protest? Mm-mm. Some of them fools were out at the Memorial Day thing that I think Obama was at. And there was like 60 anti-protesters that were protesting them, like trying to drown them out so no one would have to listen to them.

And they said everybody was very appreciative of their protesting, of their protest. Interesting. That's kind of cool. Who was this group? The protesters? You know, I think it was a group that just put together fellas. What part of them were from the Ku Klux Klan? Who wanted to show up and show that they were not associated with Westboro Baptist Church. We may be extreme, but we're not those guys. Doesn't that tell you something? Is what kind of crazy organization are you when the KKK says, ah, we're not part of those guys?

That's no less. Let me ask this. What's the best reaction to a group of folks like that? I mean, is it like the, is it best just to ignore them? I think the best reaction is for the media to ignore them, because all they care about is the media attention, which gets their message out. If the media would just, I mean, if nobody talked about it, they wouldn't waste their time. Let's go a different route. Let's bring a giant mirror and sit it in front of them. Like, let's just go wherever they go and have a 20 foot by 20 foot mirror, and everywhere they're protesting, we'll just cart a truck in front of them with a mirror, so it looks like they're yelling at themselves all the time. What if they move?

That's why it's on a truck. We'll just put the truck in reverse. There they go, Pete. No problem. I bet we could find a friendly truck driver that would be willing to do our bidding. How much do you get paid? There's no money in it. Lord service only. Well, couldn't they just dirty the mirror? Well, then they themselves would look dirty, and it'd be an accurate reflection. That mirror could speak metaphors.

You'd probably have to have a permit or something. A permit to carry a giant mirror? Yeah. If you're going to park it. Maybe we'll just shine something up real fancy, so it'll be half a reflection. We can't afford this full mirror. Oh, do I look fat? Oh, man. That's bad. So, what's your idea, Ben? Yeah, I don't know.

I can't decide whether… I'll tell you what Live from the Path would do. We'd huddle in a corner and pray for him. Hope God takes care of him. That is what we do. Yeah. Yeah. That's our deal. Well, we had that kind of conversation when we were talking about the prayer room. That's not always biblical. It's not always biblical to be only the guy that always huddles in the corner and prays, right?

Because if they're only dudes huddling in the corner and praying, and God tells you to go… Like, the sin is to… God says, go out, and then you don't. Right? Right. It's okay to sit and pray, but if God says, hey, I want you out there, and instead you huddle and pray, that's a problem. Here's the thing. Is there serving a purpose? I don't know what the purpose is, but there's serving a purpose, because if they were so detrimental to the Lord's Word, I'm fairly certain God would have taken care of them already. I think he lets the stuff kind of happen, and I don't know that he would strike them down or something. Well, but that's what I'm saying, is that he's bigger than them.

You know what I'm saying? They're not so much of a problem that God has to come down, has to himself have it taken care of, or take care of it personally, or whatever. Like, they're not so much of a concern that he has to do something about it. Well, I mean, he's obviously not threatened by lies. You know what I'm saying? Like, the truth will never indict the Lord, and lies, obviously, are inapplicable. So, like, what would be the deal? Ultimately, he wouldn't ever have any reason to come rolling down there and coming after people. Like what you're saying. What do you mean? What I'm saying is, like, what's he care of with some petty yuckster down here who's obviously misrepresenting him to other people?

Like, that doesn't harm him. Well, but it might harm someone's approach to him. It's detrimental to his people. Okay, but— But, I mean, he's had to punish his people for their ridiculousness. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, is if they were caught—like, if they were shown to cause—well, that's probably a question, right? Would the character of God normally allow someone to be thrown off a path to him because of somebody else? I think he allows things—yeah, I already said that. Allows things to happen. I'm trying to process this while I'm talking. He thinks more generational than he does, like, what's going on this week or that week.

Sometimes you wonder, even just in, like, legitimate church situations, how would God allow this person to allow this horrible thing to happen in a church, you know, and to let that happen? Look at the little mess that makes, you know? And you know what? It always seems to work out. I mean, it just—stuff goes away. I mean, it kind of cleanses, and maybe not as quickly as we'd want it to because we kind of get a little freaked out. We want things happening now, you know? Come on, God, work on this. And he's like, it's going to be okay. Right. It's not a deal.

It's not a big deal. Yeah. I mean, you know, this dude's going to be gone someday, and the next dude won't be nearly as radical and weird as him, and it'll all kind of dissipate and people go away. Well, right, and if someone latches—that's the thing. It goes hand-in-hand with a lot of—the end of times thing is perfect. The end of times, the Westboro Baptist Church, Mormons in general, you know, people latch on to things, and I suppose this goes back to the Calvinist thing we were talking about, but everyone has an opportunity to know Jesus. Everybody has an opportunity to either hand over their life to Christ or not do that. And so, regardless of what's keeping you from that, like, in these people's case, it's their self-setup religion. In other people's case, it's their pride. You know, it's—I mean, they're a more obvious face, but there's just—there's far fewer people that are following the end of times guys and the Westboro Baptist Church than there are people that are so puffed up on themselves and following their own setup that they're not following Christ either. You know, so, I mean, it's—just because they're easy to pick out because they're lunatics, you know, it should point all the more obvious on what's standing in your way from having an honest relationship with Christ and saying—and, you know, humbly submitting yourself to what he's got going because that's the hardest part.

It's the humble part. The humble part is what most people have a problem with because pride gets in the way. And, ultimately, we are personally responsible for our actions—excuse me—and our faith and what we really believe. You know, we can't just point fingers and say, well, I can help it because that guy led me astray. That Westboro old dude, he told me to make signs and yell at people. Right. And God's like, well, I had a Bible. There was a Bible right in front of you. You could have read it. Right. And you could have saw that, you know, maybe my will would be more like, yeah, that's not a good idea.

I mean— Right, exactly. I mean, even the most charismatic teacher, I mean, you know, the Bible says, you know, look, this is God's Word. You have to get in there for yourself, you know. And so, no matter how great of a speaker he is, if he's not consistent with the Bible, then obviously he's just a charismatic speaker. That's it. He's not God himself, you know. He doesn't—he didn't write the Bible. He can't—that's the best part is that no one can change it. You know, you can't change the Bible. And so, no matter what you say or how you spin it or what it looks like, you know, you can't make it be something that it's not.

Well, actually, that was one of the things that came up to somebody I was talking about at work when we were talking about the End of Times guy. It's like, the question was, how would people—he was concerned that people wouldn't—can't make the distinction that that guy's making. That guy's wrong, but how would they know that? You know, like, I can say that guy's wrong, but without reading a bunch of different stuff to figure out where that guy's wrong, you know, if they're misled by that guy, that seems unfair. And I said—my response to that was, I mean, that's a real danger. I mean, like, one of the most clever tools of the devil is to take a guy that looks like he is, you know, talking on behalf of Christ or representing something that God does and then lying about it, you know, and not representing it correctly. And that's one of the real dangers and one of the reasons why it's important to know your Bible, to not just rely on somebody to tell you what it says and how it works, but to be, you know, prayerfully reading over God's Word and trying to verify what it is that other people are saying, whether that even makes sense to you. There have been a lot of times someone says something, and I'm like, I don't know about that, and I'll go look it up. It's like, okay, all right, that, you know, I can get on board with that. That makes sense to me. That seems consistent with what's going on.

And there's other times, like, you know what, that guy's just totally using that wrong. And it doesn't say that at all. And I think that's, but I think that's one of the dangers is people look at the Bible and they'll see, they'll see this giant book and it's daunting, right? Because you say, this is God's Word, I have to know this. I can be easily taken advantage of by somebody who claims to know this or talks about it in a smooth manner compared to what I know. I mean, where do I even, where do I even begin? Well, I think that's where it comes down to your relationship with God is not a relationship if there's three people involved, you know? Like, if my understanding of Christ is, the only understanding I have of that is through Dan because he's my pastor, that's not a real, that's not a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, you know? That's me asking Dan what his God looks like, you know, and how his God acts. And putting an awful lot of trust in a person who, you know, really, you're going to trust your eternity with me? Yeah.

I mean, how do you know what my motivation is? True. And who's to say, I mean, it's not like, that's what makes a relationship a relationship is it's not the same. You know, your relationship with Jesus is different than my relationship with Jesus. It's foundationally the same, you know? But he's got you up to different things and he's got me up to. He knows how you view the world and he talks to you in a way so you can understand what's going on and he doesn't talk to me the same way, you know? And so it is all a very, you know, that's the part that gets left out a lot is, you know, people try to, you know, fight through it, fight through their faith, try to clean themselves up so they're applicable to God. And really, the relationship with Jesus is that I'm junk, you know, use me for what you want me to use me and look at the things that I'm not doing right and, you know, tell me where do you want me to go? And I'm going to fail along the way, but I know you're with me and I'll stick with you if you stick with me. And that's the relationship part and that's the growing part.

And because that fight in your faith all the time where you're trying to be the person that you want to be, you're trying to be the person that you think God wants you to be, you'll never make it. All you do is be disappointed, you know? And you take the other way is if you fight it all the time, let's say you do it real well, now you've got too much pride that God can't even use you, you know? You're like, I did so good, I'm following all the rules, I'm great, you know? Then you don't need God because you think you followed his rules and you're fine. Yeah. All right, then. You've listened to Life in the Bath. Thanks for listening so far tonight. Just a reminder, it is the Memorial Day half-off sale. Life in the Bath will only be broadcasting for an hour from 10 to 11.

I got to go home. One of my dogs has got fleas, so we've got to cut the show off early and tend to it. So I got a fat dog who keeps killing rabbits, and it got a hold of a rabbit last night, and only half-killed it, if that's the sense. It brings it up to the deck and sets it on the stairs, and then we let it in, and then we look down, and the rabbit is still twitching around and stuff. And I thought, here's the worst feeling in the world. I think to myself, I've got to kill that rabbit. This has happened at your house before, right? I know. With a possum. With a possum. But I at least had, so here's what I had before.

That possum was there, and I had a vehicle in the backyard, and I thought, I could at least run it over. Yeah. But without a vehicle, I thought, how am I going to kill this rabbit? I can't, I don't have a weapon. I don't have, like, a gun or anything, nor do I think I should be firing off a gun in the middle of town just to kill this rabbit. They frown on that. I know. I'd kick it. The authorities. Kick it. I'd kick it right off the deck and then hit it with the vehicle.

I can't hit, there's no vehicle in the back. So I think, like, twisting its neck is probably the best way to go. Oh, you, what? But I'm not going to pick it up. Go for the jugular. Come on. Twist its neck. What do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you do, stab it? Well, I don't think you need to, hit it with a shovel. How do you kill a snake? I don't, I let him be.

Oh. He nips at my heels, I shift him away. Run over it with your lawnmower. Nah. That's what I do with the snake. I think you want to poison it. Grab a, there you go. My slow, painful death. I think you want to pour a bunch of Mr. Clean on it until it passes out. Then you don't even have to touch it. And then when it's done, it'll be disinfected.

You can pick it up and chuck it. It's, well, here's the deal. So, like, I was trying to think about how am I going to do this. And all of a sudden, it shifts, it kicks with this good leg. Kicks itself off the stairs and starts to hobble away into the darkness. Yeah, bonus. I thought, cool, no problem. They wake up the next morning and it's over by the fence and it's died there. It couldn't go any farther. So, I mean, it happened. So, I had to pick it up and throw it away.

But anyway, so, like, our dog couldn't have had this rabbit in its mouth for more than a few minutes. And then it's got fleas. It's got some fleas on it. So, we had to quarantine it in the garage, give it to the flea distribution medic. Did you bomb your house? No. You're going to have to bomb your house? I'm not bombing the house. You have to? No, I put it in the garage. What do you mean you put it in the garage?

I took it from the house to the garage. Oh, man. You're going to have fleas all over your place? Can a person get fleas? Yes. Yeah. Really? Do they attach? I don't know much about fleas. I just know they're gross. Ask the woman.

The woman knows fleas. Yeah. What do you mean don't listen to Mike? You've got to bomb it, don't you, woman? She says you don't have to bomb it. You've got to bomb the house. Yeah, they jump. Tell them, Con. They do. They jump. The chat knows.

Them fleas are… My only experience is watching, like, the cartoons as a kid. Like, little Tom and Jerry. They had little… Flea circuses. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Fleas don't, I guess, live on you, but they do bite you. Flea bites. But they won't stay.

Yeah. Anyway. Well, it's not. They're not going to move on. They're going to die. No, they're going to hang out at your place and multiply. So, anyway, we put the stuff on it. That sounds awesome. They're going to be fruitful and multiply. Anyway. The 24-hour quarantine ends in seven minutes.

Then the dog's allowed back into place. Is your wife eagerly waiting to free him? No. She was all right. Keep him out. I was going to keep it out for another night. Except for, like… We had trouble sleeping last night because… So, the problem was is the fat dogs now got the fleas and quarantined in the garage and every, I don't know, two minutes goes… Because it's stuck in the garage and doesn't know why it's out there.

And then the other dog we have is ultra nervous and wants to go out and take a look at this rabbit and we refuse to let her out. So, she takes a duty in the hallway in the middle of the night. Because we wouldn't let her out there because she was going to go nudge the rabbit and play with it. Because I didn't murder it and settle over the wall, I let it go out and die on its own. You should have disinfected it and chucked it over the fence. I can't… Lysol doesn't kill. It cleans. It probably cleaned the wound, but it invigorated.

Do you have borax? You could have put some borax on it. I've got germ-ex. Borax is also a cleaner. I don't want to clean the rabbit. So, does the dog get, like, bloody? Going out and killing rabbits? No, it tends to puncture it just enough to, like, freak it out. Have you seen a dog kill something and shake it? No. I have poodles.

We have a shih tzu now. I grew up with a poodle and now we have… I mean… Oh, man. I've seen cows do this. It's rough. A cow? Yeah. A cow? A cow doesn't pick up a rabbit. I'd like to see that cow chasing down the rabbit.

Ever seen a cow pick up grass and he goes… A cow eats grass. Yeah, that's how he does it. He doesn't have to fight with their… He shakes the life out of the grass. I don't know what kind of cows you know, but these are mean… I don't know what kind of cows you know. Israeli army cows. They don't mess around. You could even walk in the fence without a pat down. Anyway, there's trouble.

We had a rough time sleeping last night. I get rid of the dog. What am I supposed to do with it, Dan? I agreed to take responsibility for it. Mike knows animals. The Dan knows fashion. Thank you. I think we write a book together. That's not… That ain't good, Dan. A guy who knows fashion.

That ain't good. I'm keeping the dog. I said… I took it. I'm responsible for it. I'm not going to ditch it off with somebody else. Anyway, it's under quarantine. I can't believe you, Nancy, dressed around on your deck trying to decide I wouldn't do that rabbit. You should have put your hand inside of a garbage bag, grabbed it, then whooped the garbage bag in the garbage.

So, hand in the garbage bag, pick them up, flip it inside out, tie it, gone. That works. Of course, then it would bite you. What, the rabbit? Yeah, it's desperate. It's going to die. Are you afraid of a rabbit bite? Maybe, if it has rabies. You need to read the Old Testament. You're not afraid of a rabbit. What's wrong with you guys?

It's Old Testament. You might as well wear a pair of slacks and go outside and wash your robes. Thou shaltest, roughest fear, rabbitth. What's wrong with you people? I'm afraid of a baby rabbit. Just some pepper. I would be concerned about it. I just don't like it flailing on me. Like, I feel if I picked it up, it would start flailing around, and then I would go, and put it down. It's better if I don't put myself in position to look like a Nancy.

I would have put the dog out and let him finish the job. Well, but she's got fleas. Why don't you put that in the drops? She's killing the rabbit. The rabbit, who cares if it has fleas? Is the rabbit going to get fleas? The rabbit already has fleas. She's passing them on to the dog. Maybe. That was the whole point of the thing, Dan. Well, how do you know it got it from the rabbit?

I could see it. Maybe. Oh, the rabbit. It was. It was a rabid rabbit. All right. You're losing life in the past. I'm hungry. Yeah, that does the same thing to me. I think to myself, hmm, flea-ridden rabbit. Let's eat.

So what did you think of the church service Sunday, Troy? Well, I'm not going to lie in the air or at all and say I was there because I wasn't. I was just wondering what you thought about it. I wasn't trying to get you to feel guilty or… I haven't heard anything and I haven't checked out the sermon itself yet, but I might actually have to do that. Okay. I know that it was about Hebrews, is what your Facebook post said. The fancy graphic is pulling them in, Dan. I think it is. That's the deal.

I think it is. The fancy graphic? From the event, the book of Hebrews. The book of Hebrews. The letter to the Hebrews. All right, Mike, what's the deal? What's the deal this week? No deal. Tell me. Deal or no deal? Okay, so here's the question.

Is this true? So God set up a path for us to follow, like rules for us to live by. And if you know, let's say you know that 50% of the population is not going to follow those rules anyway. As you live both in a Christian lifestyle and part of a society, does your decision making on behalf of that society change because they don't follow Christ? You kind of follow what I'm saying here? Like, so, what would be a good example? Well, yeah, the condom thing. Like, so, the God, you know, God's against sex before marriage. Two become one.

You know, that's it. That's the marriage. So, so, so, so basically says if you're not married, you're not to be having sex, but a good amount of the population does not follow that stipulation. So, if they were to say, look, we want to start handing, and they do this, they've tended to do this a lot lately, is to start standing out condoms at school to try to, you know, keep babies from being born, apparently. So, are we against this? Do we find this to be a bad idea? Yes. Is it, is the, you know, I know that God's against it, but if society's not going to listen

to God, then what are you hurting? Coming from a school that had quite a bit of teen pregnancy, I had a lot of classmates that had kids and everything like that. You know, when it comes to it being a society, yes, that is not going to, well, not necessarily is not going to, on a majority, they're not going to follow, do not have sex before marriage. When, you, you kind of have to look at it, either I'm going to help a little bit or not at all. Now, and I know that's a weird way of looking at it, but you're not really going to help at all with the teenagers who are going to have sex. If they're going to have sex, they're going to have sex. No amount of what we say is going to change them from wanting that.

That's, that's God's thing. That's what God needs to do. They have to transform personally, individually. And I'm not saying we don't say, you know, you're not supposed to have sex before marriage. I say we do say you're not supposed to have sex before marriage. I don't think the church should go around passing around condom to kids, but I don't think the school shouldn't. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, like imagine yourself to be in, in a, uh, position of, uh, uh, political interest. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, um, you know, like it's your job to do this.

Say you're head of the school board. You're a Christian guy. You know, you're, you, you, you follow, you follow Christ and you, you know, you believe everything that, uh, that comes with it. Uh, but the school board says, listen, you know, we want to start handing out condoms. Where do you sit? You have to choose, sadly enough, you have to choose between the lesser of two evils is the fact that you have to choose whether you're going to stand on your Christian beliefs. You're going to stand on your beliefs in Jesus Christ. I guess what I'm asking is, are you not, are you, are you failing to stand on your Christian beliefs when you say, okay, let's, let's, let's hand out condoms kids?

Yeah, I think that what you did is you educate then people as to all the, the 14 billion advantages, even take faith out of the equation physically and health wise and socially and, and emotionally and all the different reasons that you benefit from waiting to marriage and you teach abstinence and you know what, you know, they teach math, not everybody gets math, you know, and, and later on they, they, they fail at math, whatever. I mean, it's the same thing with, with social things too, with, with, uh, morality as well. The consequences to failed algebra are not herpes. Damn. Damn. Okay. Just, just pretend like I didn't say that.

I was going down fast. I was like, hope nobody notices this. I mean, there's, there's still certain standards. That's awesome. I have a, Colin is watching this laughing right now. I have a rash. What happened? I failed math. I failed math. You never did get the trigonometry, did you? I didn't do so hot in algebra.

Here's a little Tommy. I don't feel comfortable. Oh boy. See, I mean, you know, that's where I'm torn because I understand where you're coming from on that. And I, I do 100% believe in abstinence. I truly do. Oh, sure. Sure. And I believe that's what God wants. That's what we need to do.

However, when it comes to the people that are still going to do it, abstinence was taught in my school. It was, it was pushed. People wanted the children to be abstinent and save themselves for marriage or whatever, or at least think about having sex before you go into it. Exactly. It's like, oh, it's a Friday night. Let's have fun. No. But when it comes to also the flip side of that, they are not going to be abstinent if they absolutely do not want to be.

There are kids that are still going to abstinent. Which doesn't mean you lower the standard for everybody then. No, and I. Well, there's going to be a few that are just horny out there. Yeah, but however. So everybody does. However. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. You can go ahead. Well, I was going to say that's their choice.

So they can take care of that how they want to. It's not the school's responsibility to make sure that they're being safe on a Friday night. They can teach what they want to teach. They can teach that if you want to be safe and still do that, this is what you do. But they can teach abstinence, and then the students will make their choices for themselves. So if they want to take care of themselves. But why doesn't that work on the flip side then? So if on the flip side is if my kids are going to that school, and they're giving out free condoms, and I said, it's not a problem. Me and my girls have already talked about it. We don't need them. You know, that I've handled in this house.

But for the other 50% of the population, probably more, that is having sex before marriage anyway, or at least in an unprotected fashion, you know, what's the downside? I'm missing the downside here. Like if they're not going to follow Christ, and that's not their moral setup, I can take care of me and my family. Those are the people I'm in charge of teaching. Right. And so the school should stay out of it. It's not the school's business if somebody gets pregnant. Probably. You know? I mean, it's just like they get all political on stuff, and it's just they're hurting children. The percentage of rate increase of your chance of having cervical cancer, the younger you start having sex, that number starts to skyrocket.

I mean, there's just so many reasons to not have sex. Well, I tell you what. But take it out of the school, though. Exactly. No, no, no. Take the situation out of the school. Put the situation on single mothers, on welfare. You know, people that are accepting government assistance. Are we in the same boat there? Like if they handed out – let's say they just handed out free condoms to people on welfare or people in general. They say, look, if you're going to have it, here it is.

We're trying to stop the epidemic of 40% of the population that gets born every day that has no father at all. We want to try to put an end to this government that says, okay, look, we're going to pay for it. We're going to start handing them out. Yeah. And you're not changing character and – you're treating symptoms, you know. Well, see, now I agree with you there, but that's not – you're looking at a societal problem versus a God problem, I guess is how I want to say it. But so agreed, they can be fixed with God. Your faith in Christ fixes these problems because God sets up a structure for you to not act like this if you choose to obey it. But on the other hand, if you know that a good percent of the population is not going to follow it anyway – That doesn't make it – that doesn't change truth. Truth is always truth.

So you've got to put certain things in place and say, if you do this, this will happen. Just because all society disagrees with it doesn't mean it won't happen. It just means the society will disintegrate quicker. So let's go ahead and put fuel on this fire and make it just burn like crazy. So you think it makes it worse if they hand them out? Absolutely, absolutely. You think it just gives people free reign and they start to do whatever they want? Sure. So your faith is just as easily sold if there's free condoms out there? You lose all your faith in Christ and say, that's it, you're right, I can do whatever I want. But that's what I'm saying, the people that take advantage of that aren't taking advantage of God's love anyway.

So what are you losing? It's just more encouragement. But he just said it's not. I don't think I'd call it encouragement. I mean, it's kind of helping out with – I understand your concept. I agree in part with both sides because I – Thanks, Troy. That really helps out. I know, and I'm trying to make sense. And I'll be announcing my presidency run. And I will be –

Just let me get comfortable right here on the fence. Excuse me, I have Mitt Romney here. No, I'm trying to explain it in a way that I don't sound like a complete and total jerk. Oh, it's too late. Okay, fine. I agree 100% with yes, abstinence is the best way to do it. However, they're idiots who are going to do it. Why not help them out safe-wise? Okay, let's put it this way. Okay, let's say – let's just change the issue. I think it's – let's use guns.

So I'm going to go out and shoot people and say, well, it's just an epidemic. People go out. The gangs are out there shooting people. It's really happening. So do we hand out softer bullets and say, well, they're going to be shooting people anyway? Or better guns? Because sometimes those guns explode in their hands. They're cheap guns or they're not – do we give them better guns, better weapons? Do we train them at the range to make sure they actually shoot the person they're intending and not the innocent person next to them too? Because, you know, man, people are dying that way too.

She was just walking down the street and they got both of them. You know, well, let's just train them to kill properly then. If we're using that, I flip it. I say we give the innocents Kevlar. You're not giving – you're not giving the people that are shooting – Which is a form of protection. Yeah. You're not giving the people that are shooting the guns better guns or softer bullets. You're giving the people who are affected on the other side of the end. Guns? Here's the –

I think you have crazy people who don't know how to use – Here's the broad question, okay? The condom thing is just a – whatever. It's just a step in the process. The question – the broad thought is that my beliefs in Christ set me up with a Bible full of information on how to act. If society does not follow that Bible and I am part of that society, Knowing that that society does not follow those set of rules and are going to disobey them, Do you put safeguards in place that aren't congruent with the Bible but will cause less of a fall in society? Yes, because society who doesn't follow those standards will fall. So you're trying to protect society from itself. So you use the standards of the designer of life who said, here's how a society will work.

Whether they believe it or not, whether they see it or not, it's just truth. This is just how it works. So if we ignore that, society will fall. Ask Rome, you know, ask any other country who's fallen before. So for us to say – Emperor, what do you think happened to you? What happened to you? We started giving out condoms. It was the condoms. That started when we started giving out condoms. It ended when we gave everybody condoms.

And the kids were failing math. Shouldn't have taught algebra. Well, let me ask this. Would you give – do you provide counseling to non-married couples who are having sex? Would you provide relationship counseling? Sure. Isn't their lifestyle – Part of that counselor would say, dude, keep it in your pants. I get that part. But, like, if they're not doing that, you would still continue to provide counseling to try to change that situation, yes? Mm-hmm.

So, I mean, is that entirely inconsistent with someone who is going to have premarital sex? And you provide them condoms so that they – that sex is safer while you continue to change and preach to their behavior? Are you being duplicitous for having provided the – is that the problem? It's like – Maybe here's the deal. We're on a false premise. Condoms aren't safe. I have a friend – Well, they're safer than nothing. They're trying to have – out of their four kids, like, three of them are born with condoms. I mean –

I think you're right. I think we're on a false premise here. Yeah. It's not that so much that condoms aren't safe, but that we're trying to insert a standard that God doesn't have, that sex that does not produce a baby is better than unprotected sex prior to marriage. That's the problem. Both are sex outside of marriage. God doesn't see a difference. Right. Societally, the standard is different, but God's perspective is there's not a difference. Exactly. The problem is – the issue is from a societal standpoint is that what is produced by – the distinction between those two is premarital sex without a condom can produce disease in children.

And being able to stop those two things perhaps puts you in a different situation or a child in a different situation. Socio-economically. You know, that's kind of the question that I'm getting at is in a spiritual sense, this is not an improvement. But in a socio-economic sense, they're a drag on economy, and they don't produce healthy families who don't produce productive society. So as a society, it looks – it's better for society, not necessarily spiritually better. And so how can I say that? It's not a gain to spirituality by doing – by doing nothing either way. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't gain spirituality by – in their walk towards Christ by not doing anything, and you don't gain by handing them out. But you do gain socio-economically. So that's not a plus.

Dan, you're the other side. You have to answer the question. I got distracted reading the chat. However, I would say – I liked it. The economics really doesn't matter because if you're going down morally, everything is going to crumble anyway. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's all over. So can we go back – oh, sorry. Well, can we go back to that superintendent now? What do they do if he's a Christian man, Christian morals and things? Well, that's what I'm asking.

The reason I thought of this whole thing is if – there's a way to go through life. Let's say God's got you set up to be good at your job because you work hard. And so if you work hard, odds are you're going to eventually be promoted to a position of some type of importance where you're going to have to be making decisions. Joseph is a perfect example in the Old Testament of a guy that gets promoted and continues to do very well for his boss, even though he is basically a slave for him. And he practiced abstinence. He didn't say, well, I'm a slave. I'm going to have to go ahead and sex with this lady because everybody is doing it. I mean, come on. Yes. That's not really –

Yeah, that's not – That's not really applicable to the situation. But he still did it. I understand where he comes from without this. We're trying to pick out a micro issue in a macro conversation, and you're over here – I was really proud of that. In a different micro. I usually am. We're trying to – I liked it. I thought that was good.

Thank you. I'll be honest. Why are you on the fence? You're liking it. I like it. I'm saying I liked it because it was in a way of relevant. Troy started leading one way on the fence and said, there's a dead rabbit over there. I'm getting over here. Yeah, there's a good-looking rabbit over there. So – But that's the question, right?

So you get promoted where you can actually make a difference in our society as a whole. And issues like this are going to come up where the decision you make does not spiritually benefit but socially benefits. But it's not against God's teaching, but it's not for it because people are doing this behavior anyway. They're currently doing this behavior. You're not promoting that they do it. You're basically trying to soften the blow of the social impact. That's kind of like owning a bar and saying, well, but Jesus went and talked to people. It's not because you didn't create the situation. Backstory. It's a – yeah. You're creating the situation of, well, people are going to drink anyway, so why don't I go ahead and sell it to them?

No, no. I'm not asking you to back up what you've just said. I'm saying what you've just said does not apply to what we're talking about because you didn't cause people to have sex prematurely. Okay, you have completely the wrong example. The example would be if someone has a bar. I'm going home. And they're drinking anyway and you're providing free cab rides to get them home safely. They're going to do it. Yes, that's a perfect application. You're trying to facilitate ways so that they've done it, they're still getting home safe. At least they were safe.

Yeah, you're not condoning the act itself. That is the appropriate example, not the guy that owns the bar. Like it's like a mom and dad telling their kids, if you're going to drink, just call me. I'd rather you call me and tell me than me find out you've got a car accident. So here's the deal. Now, I see that differently because that's not a society problem. That's a family issue. No, and I understand. I'm not saying that's not a family issue. That's exactly what you're saying. I'm saying you're –

Go back to on the fence. I'm saying you're acting – You're not condoning the act. You're trying to make it safer for the people who are going to do it no matter what. Okay, here's where the – Obviously, as a parent, I'm going to tell my kids don't drink. Here's where the Bible comes in. Here's where the Bible comes in. Is that we are in charge of keeping in line people that are part of the church, right? We are in charge of judging other Christians to a standard that Jesus holds them to. That's our job as fellow Christians.

Christian to Christian, that's the deal. We make sure once you become part of this family, you are now in the family, and you are subject to people going, that's not the behavior that Christ is after. Let's talk about this. You need to come back to where you were. Outside of the church, God handles people outside of the church. We judge ourselves within the church because we already hold ourselves to an accountability of God. Outside of the church, we don't hold those same judgments. And Paul goes through that in the New Testament quite a bit, correct? Are you looking at me? I'm looking at either one of you.

So where's the Bible tie-in? The cab ride thing is perfect. The sex thing is a little – the condom thing is a little too controversial. Go to the drinking cab ride. I think they're the same thing. It's the same thing. I mean, you look at all the prophets in the Old Testament. They went into communities, and they didn't say, well, it looks like you're doing this stuff anyway. They said repent. You know what I mean? I guess that's what I'm saying.

Within the church, we're in charge of holding each other accountable. We're here to be the voice of God. Wherever it is, wherever God has put us. If God has made me a superintendent, I'm to be a voice of God. If that gets me fired, whatever. I'm still going to be the voice of God in my community where I'm at. So the cab ride thing you're against as well? I'm not against the cab ride thing. That's kind of a different thing. Why? I don't picture that as something that's different.

That would be the same thing as opening up a crisis pregnancy center. They've already done the act. Now we're going to try to help you. You've already gotten drunk. Now we're going to help you. You've already had sex. We're trying to keep you from creating a child. Yeah. We know you're having sex. We'd like to make sure that if you're going to continue to do that, that you're at least going to be not creating a child.

No. When the child's on the way, we're going to try to help you counsel so that you don't kill the child. Oh, that's helpful. That's helpful. Wait until they've made the mistake and then step in. That's like saying, I was going to give you the tornado warning, but I wanted to send out the people to come help you afterwards. I don't think that's fair. But they're already, people can already get help for these things. They're making these decisions themselves.

Because people are out there helping them. If no one was doing that, which is the method of what you're proposing, you wouldn't be able to say that. No, that's just more support. People are going to make these decisions no matter what. If they want a condom, they can go into the bathroom of Joe Blow gas station down the street and get one. If they want to ride home, they can just get their own car and drive. Whatever, yeah. They don't need the school giving them out. But that's what I'm saying.

You're in the wrong micro here. Take the school out of it. Take the condom thing out. Move over to the bar thing. It's easier to grasp. Because you're too hung up on how much you don't want the government involved in moral decisions. So let's move it over to the drugs, okay? So the cab ride thing, bad. No good, right? It's apples to apples the same as a guy.

Let's say it's not the school. Let's say there's a dude handing out free condoms. Not a creepy guy like you're thinking, but a compassionate man who's just trying to help. So apples to apples, that's the same. This guy's trying to help people get home safe after sin. And this guy's trying to help a broken home from being born after sin. But by giving out a condom is kind of encouraging. You can still do it. Like free rides from the bar. There's not a distinction here.

You guys got to get past these things being different. They're the same. And if the tactic is the same, you're going to have to explain why one is okay and one is not. But the comparisons are the same. I think we're beyond that. It's the same deal. You're helping someone that we do not condone. They're taking actions that you don't approve of or that God would not approve of. And you're following up with that action with something that otherwise does not necessarily help them from a God perspective, but helps them from a social perspective, from a worldly

perspective. Where's the problem? That's where we're at. So how do we stop it from happening? No. No. Because it's not our business to stop it from happening. I don't think you could. We teach truth and people make choices. And then, okay, then you help people when they made a poor choice. Like, wow, you made a poor choice.

I'm here to help you up. And we've all made poor choices, yada, yada, yada, and let this help you. And even as you continue to make poor choices, I will continue to try to help you? Part of helping is teaching them how to not make poor choices. Okay. So do you still, after you give the guy a ride from the bar the first time, do you give him a ride the second time, the third time? There's a certain point when you stop. I don't know what that is. It's an individual one-on-one basis. So if there's a guy that's having premarital sex and you're trying to help him out, do you

give him a condom once, twice, while you're trying to keep him safe? While I'm talking about abstinence with him? You say, stop. Just like you would tell the guy to stop drinking, but you would still give him a ride home from the bar. I don't get it. I don't get your distinction. Yeah. So in the bar, you wouldn't give out a condom. So in the bar scene or situation, would you just say, walk him? I'm not the guy that said I wouldn't give out a condom.

I'm not sure that I would, but I'm not saying that. Because I find that my thoughts on this at the moment are inconsistent and don't make sense. Like, they don't. Like, I would generally say, I don't think I would advocate giving out the condom, but I would give the guy a ride home from the bar. But those comparisons are the same. They're two different things. Because the condom is, hey, you're probably going to make a mistake, and I don't trust that you can control yourself, and you probably won't support you. Here's your little safeguard, which tells them, hey, I don't really have to control myself.

I've got protection. The bar thing is, wow. That's the same reason people take advantage of the free ride. That's why they go out and get blitzed on St. Patrick's Day, and don't worry about it, because there's a free cab ride home. And that's why the bar advertises the free ride home. It's the same thing. Yeah. But that's a personal business doing that. It's not society saying, hey, we're all giving. Once again, take society out of it.

Call it a guy. Call it a guy. It's just a guy giving an condom. Yeah, yeah. You're trying to point this at the government, but that's what we're talking about. We're talking about, as a Christ follower, social benefit versus spiritual zero. Not benefit, not loss. Same. You didn't change. You didn't preach something that was against God's will, and you didn't say that God condones their behavior, but you're trying to soften the social impact.

You didn't say it's okay to go out and drink, but I'll get you home safe so you don't ruin anybody else. I didn't say it was okay to have sex before marriage, but you most certainly don't need to be bringing a child into this world that you're not in control of. It's the same situation. Why are we okay with the drunk home and not okay with the condoms? I'm still not seeing that it's the same, I guess. Let me ask. So you're looking at it from preventing standpoint on condoms. You're saying if you're going to do it, here it is. You're going to be protected.

But you're saying these people haven't had sex before. That's the issue. No, I was just asking to see what they're talking about. That's what I'm saying. You're imagining that they have not had sex before, and we're saying, well, if you're going to do it, here's the condom. When the apples to apples to the drunk is, is that you're currently having sex. You've already done it. We are for abstinence, but if you're going to keep doing it, you best be wearing one of these. Because socially, you're not helping.

It's not a benefit. The drunk thing is the same thing. It's not like we're going up to 14-year-olds who haven't ever taken a drink and saying, we'll give you a free ride home if you're going to drink. And so they think, well, I might as well drink. We're talking about people that are drinking already. Sex already, drinking already. Ride home, condom. See, maybe I feel like it's a more equal comparison. You said, here's a six-pack of beer. Six-pack of beer.

Six-pack of beer, don't drink it. Because one's prior and one's after. No. You're not condoning the act. You're trying to make it safer if they're already going to do it. Handing them a six-pack of beer is a lot different from giving them a ride home. We're not handing them… Is it, though? It's just not our job to make anything safer. It's our job to say, here's the truth of God. It is safer if you follow God's plan.

But as a human being standpoint, if you're watching someone fall and watching someone fail, and through that failure, there's a child brought up in a home that doesn't have a father or doesn't have a mother, blah, blah, blah. You can make as many insinuations as you want. They grow up to be a mass murder, whatever. However, it boils down to the fact that you're trying to give help to someone who needs it as in a social, not necessarily social, but from a human standpoint. You're looking at it as, hey, here you are. You're going to do it anyway. I don't want you to do it. I do not in any way condone this.

God doesn't condone it. But if you're going to do it, please be safe. So I can't say that. But that's, it's their lifestyle, but it's like you need to count the counseling thing. When are we talking about counseling? It's already their lifestyle. They've made this choice over and over. And it's not an issue of let's make it safer, but like helping them change their lifestyle. Am I not explaining this right? Well, obviously, I'm not saying that I'm going to go up to this person and be like, okay, you're having sex.

Maybe it's too lofty. It's probably too lofty, isn't it? Here's a condom and then walk away. I'm not just going to hand him a condom and walk away. I'm going to hand him a condom and be like, hey, God does not want you to do this. Here's the thing. Here's a condom with a picture of Jesus on it. Here's a sermon from Dan Hudson at Pathway Church and here's a condom. Here's the thing. No, I'm not going to go up. I feel the same way that you do.

I feel the same way. I don't feel comfortable handing the condom out. I'd give the drunk guy a ride home. But they're the same situation, and I don't know why I feel that way. I'll take a stand and say I wouldn't be more than happy to hand out the condom. But it's a personal choice. That's what I'm saying. I'm trying to figure out why I stand differently because it's the same situation. I don't know. I can't explain it any more differently, but it's the same situation. It is.

It's the exact same. It's apples to apples, the same situation. Personally, I feel better about giving the drunk guy a ride home. But I shouldn't. I should feel the exact same way about both. So either I should not want to do either or I should be okay with both because they're the same situation. It's a personal thing on why I'm having a problem with it. And I'm trying to figure out where's the God in it because if building a relationship and having just even a reason to talk to somebody about God by giving them a ride home is an opportunity to grow someone with Christ, then you take it. The condom is the same way. Hold on.

Is there a difference between telling someone to use a condom and giving them one? Yes. Maybe that's where we're at. There's a difference between me saying, be careful if you're going to do this, make sure you wear a condom, then here you go. I've facilitated this. Well, on that premise, let me ask you this. That's the same as saying, I'm not going to give you a ride home, but I'm going to tell you there's a cab right over there. That's the same thing. I'm not going to give you a condom, but I'll tell you you should use one. I'm not going to give you a ride home, but I'm going to say, you know, there's some cabs over there. You should probably use those.

See, we're still going back to giving someone a ride home because they've already made the choice. They're already intoxicated. They're already in trouble. You're not judging them. You're loving them, loving people to God. You're coming in and saying, hey, well, you need some help. I don't want you to get hurt because you've made some poor choices. Just as you'd go to a crisis pregnancy center and say, wow, you've made some poor choices. You've done some things that were foolish. There's a baby on the way. Let's not kill the baby.

Let's not harm you. There's people who will adopt this baby, that type of thing. That's after care. The prior care is, I'm going to give you a condom because I think you're going to do it anyway, or I'm going to give you. No, no, that's not the situation, though. See, you guys are looking at this as a one-time act. You're looking at it as. Is it supposed to be? A one-time act? That was my question I was going to ask. Go ahead.

Well, if you just hand out a condom, that's kind of encouraging. If you just randomly give someone a ride home who's already been drunk and you know they do that every week or whatever, that's kind of encouraging it. But if you do it in building a relationship with this person and counseling, I feel like that changes it because you're trying to help them. If they're not going to change how they act in their mind and whatever, then you can only do so much and then you just have to stop. But if you're building this relationship and counseling them and providing that again. Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. But what I don't understand is why you guys see the drunk and the sex as two different things. It's before and after. It's not before and after. But it's not because you're putting the sex as a one-time event. I don't care if it's every three minutes.

That's probably a little – I mean I'm saying – If they're having sex before marriage, it happened before you got there. Right. If they're drinking, it happened before you showed up in the car. So you're talking giving them multiple condoms all the time over and over and multiple rides home. No, I'm just trying to get it so it's the same situation for you because you keep saying it's one's before and one's after. It's not before because they've already done it. They've already done it. Just because you got showed up in the three hours that they've been drinking. So what I would do then, I would say, okay, guess what? You guys, you're already married.

Let's go ahead and sign the license. You're already married. Have all the sex you want and have fun. Be fruitful and multiply. God bless you. I think that's where I was not making myself clear with what I was saying. I'm not going to go around to just random people that I don't know are having sex and to people that I know are virgins but might have sex. I would go around to the people that I know are already having sex, that I know are doing it already, that I know have committed the sin and handing them a condom and being like, if you do this, I don't want you to in any way. God doesn't want you to. So if you're still not covering the sin, you're just hoping they don't have a baby. Yes.

So they're still going to go to hell. Right, but in any case, you have no power over if they go to hell or not. Yeah, but hold on. But that's the question. That's not the important issue. The important issue is they go to heaven. But the question is, you're the guy. You're the guy that has to decide this. You're the guy that worked hard, got promoted. This is now your job. You got promoted there because you do what's best for our society, and you're saying that what's best for our society is God, and that's it, and we're not – there's no reason to provide someone a ride home from the bar, and there's no reason to provide protection.

I think there's lots of reason to give someone a ride home from the bar. It's like talking to a wall. The person – It's like talking to a wall with a tight shirt on. The person – A tight shirt and wall. I love my shirt. The person you're giving a ride to from the bar, they've already drank, right? Right. Hopefully, you're giving a ride to some dude that's already drunk. Are they an alcoholic?

Are they someone who just slips once in a while, like, oh, man, I didn't mean to, but look what happened. Are they someone who just went a little too far? I mean – Is there any difference? There seems to be a difference. I mean – Well, then you're saying there's a difference between the person who's having sex every night. You're creating these two things that are all equal. I think they're absolutely equal. You've been listening to Live from the Path. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

We really do appreciate it. We will see you next week. If you want to catch us during the week, you can do so at www.livefromthepath.org. You can catch our archived podcast, clips from previous shows, including our artist. Next week, Ashton Powers will be in the studio performing live. We will see you next week. Have a wonderful week.