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live from the path. And you're listening to live from the Pathway Company from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Coburn. It is good to be with you this fine evening. And you're lucky I came to you. I had half of mine not to cook. I wasn't gonna either then. Hey. Here's what we got going on with children night. So what we here's what we had planned is so one of the things that we were talking about, good news changed the world, had to do with

sex trafficking. We like, we wanted some more information about that. And we were gonna talk to Nate Baird. If you remember, we talked to Nate, man, I don't know. It had been five years ago, four years ago, something like that. He did Happy Birthday, Nate. He was raising money to do Nets. Mesquito. Yeah. Mesquito nets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so anyway, he's doing a Merry Christmas, Nate, and he's helping to raise money for Wings of Refuge, which is a they help people who have gotten

out of sex trafficking to, like, transition their way into society, I believe. And so we were gonna have them on to have them kind of talk about that, but the sickness got him. It attacked Nate Baird and he couldn't make it in. Man, that's depressing. That's what I'm saying. So we're we're gonna reschedule. But here's what happens. Because we're not doing that this week, we can get to those the article that I've has popped up like as if we were gonna do it for the past few weeks. So that's my only goal. We might be a short show tonight, fellas, but I wanna get this article done so that I can get it off my list of articles. And it had to do with

reasons why ladies cheat. And it's it was on CNN. It was from the beginning of October. It was the changing reasons why women cheat on their husbands. And I don't did anybody read it? Here's what I wanna say about that sex trafficking deal. Okay. I really wanna be involved in the sting

of of taking them down. You know? Oh, yeah. I I I feel like it's it's gotta be much more difficult once you kinda get into it, and then, like, you actually see the situation for what it is. That's gotta break your heart. Yeah. I mean, I don't be that far in it where you're gonna bring them down, you've gotta be in there. Right? And so, like, you gotta be you know, you gotta see the whole thing as if you're just a purveyor of goods. And I don't know if I could I can make it through there, so I'm probably wouldn't be good for the sting operations. But, like, that's terrible.

And and and I'm I'm really excited to talk to both Nate and these ladies about this thing to see how we can help. Like, I just got I mean I don't know if they're looking for open positions for a guy to poorly execute the taking down of folks. A stinger. They need a stinger. I'll I'll drive a big rig. I couldn't do it. Like, some of those like, those guys who were in there building cases against folks. Like, with multiple visits and Yeah. They have to go in there and, like, act like they're in there to buy ladies' time. Yeah.

And then they then they hang out, and then they they walk away, and then they gotta go back. And, like, you don't even get the satisfaction all the time of being able to just walk in there and say, this is the end, bro. Like Yeah. You you gotta spend some time building the case and stuff, and just I I think it would be tough. Well, I I was just reading on the Exodus Road had something there in India there a couple days ago where it was like a like a three hour turnaround. Like, they went in. A gal escaped. She told somebody. They fired it up. Got these two dudes over there, and whiz bang pop. Got the got another gal out of there and then arrested, like, three guys all at once. Well, that's right. Like, it was awesome. Yeah. So, anyway, I I here's the thing is I know it's not a subject that I spend a whole lot of time on. Obviously, like, I it's deplorable.

But, like, I don't know that I spend a whole lot of time on it because I feel like it doesn't affect me, and I think they're going to say that it certainly does and that it is in my backyard, and then there are all kinds of things going on here that I am gleefully turning my eye away from that and acting like it's not a deal. Yeah. And so I'm I'm very excited. I'll be guarded for that conversation,

because I feel like once you talk to some folks who have been in and around that arena, it's it's really hard to turn away from that and not get not get involved somehow. So Yeah. I wonder if there's like, with the Super Bowl coming into Minneapolis this year Mhmm. I wonder if there's they need extra folk. Take stingers. Yeah. Yeah. See, that's where the third third string, stingers can show up. I mean, they're not even trying. You know what saying? Super Bowl, everybody knows that's the deal. We just need guys to knock on doors. Hey, man. Is that right? Is that legit? No. Out. I mean, the the whole the whole the whole thing just, I I'm so foreign to this stuff, I mean, like how, let's say you're the dude looking for a girl, I mean, you don't, I mean, do you, hey I'm looking for a little girl, I mean, how does that happen? Yeah. I mean, because there's both sides of this happening. There's people providing and there's people

buying. Yeah. And somehow they're connecting, and I'm thinking it's it's sick and wrong on both sides. It's like the whole thing is just not right. You know what happens on the dark web? Like, the parts of the Internet that, they say, look. You do this the bad stuff. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, that is the type of thing that goes on there. Yeah. I do also, like, found, like, Craigslist has been a good front for that. Like, they they'll advertise

young ladies and act like they're kind of over age and then, or of age and then, you know, they're not. Yeah. I've been to workshops where they kind of describe some of that stuff, but I'm I'm still like, but still how do you know that? How do they know that? Like, I know some of that stuff because I've gone to workshops and I go, oh, okay. Like if you were like are you taking a risk that you're actually looking for an underage lady and you're just hoping this Craigslist is a lie and that it's I younger than mean, yeah. I know how the conversation you're working with some dude, hey, I like 12 year olds. How about you? I mean, how how do you even learn because what there's about this dark web. There's one person you can say that to that's not gonna have you arrested Yeah. Exactly. Directly. Or we would hope. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't know. It's a good question. It's like, how do you how does how does all this even get facilitated

given given I mean, certainly, most people have a have their ears open for people looking for underage kids. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. How does this even happen? I mean, I suppose it happens in the places where we're not. Otherwise, we'd be aware of them in some way or another. But, like That's true. It'd be interesting. Okay. Well, okay. We'll ask. I I'm I'm I'm loaded with questions. I'm sure that after they start talking, I'll just shut my mouth and listen, but I got questions. Yeah. Alright. So here so here it is. This was the this was the article. Why women

the changing ribbons, why women Changing Reasons Why Women Cheat on Their Husbands. One of the more interesting facts in Esther Perrell's new book, State of Affairs Rethinking Infidelity, comes near the beginning. Since 1990, notes the psychoanalyst and writer, the rate of married women who report they've been unfaithful has increased by forty percent, while the rate among men has remained the same. Good. We've been sleazy the whole time. Congratulations, Excellent. More women than ever are cheating, she tells us, or are willing to admit that they are cheating. And while Perrell spends much of her book examining the psychological meaning, motivation, and impact of these affairs, she offers little insight into the significance of the rise itself.

So what exactly is happening inside marriages to shift the numbers? What has changed about monogamy or family life in the past twenty seven years to account for the closing gap? And why have so many women begun to feel entitled to the kind of behavior long accepted, albeit disapprovingly, as a male prerogative? These questions first occurred to me a few years ago when I began to wonder how many of my friends were actually faithful to their husbands. From a distance, they seemed happy enough or at least content. Like me, they were doing the family thing. They had cute kids, mortgages, busy social lives, matching sets of dishes. On the surface, their husbands were reasonable. The marriage is modern and equitable. If these women friends were angry, unfulfilled, or resentful, they didn't show it. Then one day, one of them confided in me she'd been having two overlapping affairs over the course of five years. Almost before I finished processing this, another friend told me she was 100% faithful to her husband

except when she was out of town for work each month. Mhmm. Not long after, another told me that while she never had sex with another man, she had so many emotional affairs and inappropriate email correspondence over the years that she'd had to buy a separate hard drive to store them all. Who is storing them? Who keeps them? What surprised me most about these conversations was not that was not that my friends were cheating, but that many of them were so nonchalant in the way they described their extramarital adventures. There was deception but little secrecy or shame.

Often, they loved their husbands but felt in some fundamental way that their needs, sexual, emotional, psychological were not being met inside the marriage. Some even wondered if their husbands knew about their infidelity choosing to look away. The fact is one of these friends told me I'm nicer to my husband when I have something special going on that's just for me. She found that she was kinder, more patient, less resentful, less of a b. It occurred to me as I listened that these women were describing infidelity not as a transgression,

but a creative or even subversive act, a protest against an institution they'd come to experience as suffocating or oppressive. In an earlier generation, this might have taken the form of separation or divorce, but now it seemed more and more women were unwilling to abandon the marriages and families they built over years or decades.

They were also unwilling to bear the stigma of a publicly open marriage or to go through the effort of negotiating such a complex arrangement. These women were turning to infidelity not as a way to explode a marriage but as a way to stay in it. Whereas conventional narratives of female infidelity so often poses the unfaithful woman as a passive party, the women I talked to seemed in control of their own transgressions. There seemed to be something new about this approach. So let me ask you this first thing, fellas. Is there anything about this surprised you? Because this jumped out at me. Like, this this seemed interesting to me. Not that necessarily it was happening,

but but the nonchalance about it or the accepting as an appropriate means to to an end on wanting a marriage that's not falling apart. Is this is this surprising to you or no? Most of

the morality has flipped upside down. Okay. So in that context, I guess it's not surprising. It's disappointing and it's sad

but what else would you expect from a godless society? So what's interesting is that it has, it's not complete

abandonment though. Right? And not necessarily of a moral standard one way or the other. Like, it's not saying maybe it's the reversal of that. And maybe just the naivety in my mind. But, like,

this looking outside of your marriage as a means to to keep your marriage and even to look at it as a as a good Oh, yeah. A service by adding spice elsewhere. Here's the deal. I suppose guys have been under that stupidness for years. Right? Like, there's, like, there's been a foolishness. And and maybe maybe it's more true and maybe it's just admitting it or being more open about it where the nonchalance of guys are their willingness to be open about

that type of thought. But, like, like, you know, certainly, it's been it it does feel like a guy's prerogative to say, hey, if my wife's not giving me what I want, it's okay for me to get it elsewhere. In fact, I know there was somebody that I know,

not close, but leading with. There was just just a story that I heard of of of it was basically that very thing. The wife just said, look. I just I can't I can't keep up with what you want. For the benefit of our marriage, just go ahead and do whatever you gotta do. And then our marriage would be that part will just kinda be farmed out. It's like it's it's it's just like farming out responsibilities to other parties.

And I I guess maybe hearing it come from a lady's perspective is interesting to me because, a, I I just I have not heard that. But to kind of put it in a thought process that, like, it is a functional way of retaining things that you're you're otherwise proud of, like the the cohesion of your family, the

staying power of your marriage, or the, you know, not having to break up the kids or whatever. And so if this is what it costs to do that, then fine. I mean, the not having to break up the kids thing was legit, but the two other things you said is like the what was it? The cohesion of your marriage or the strong I mean, you basically just just, you know, ran a a relay by taking a taxi and then getting to the end and being like, yeah. I made the relay. You did not do any of those things. You cheated the whole thing. It's not what a marathon is. It's not what a relay is. It's not what a marriage is. Right? So, like, you can't just you can't just do whatever you want and say, well, this is what I'm gonna call a marriage.

And it's get to I get to have sex with who I want when I want to because then I'll be nicer to my husband or whatever you decided was the deal. Right? Like because you you wanted to do the easy thing. The easy thing is to not work out whatever reason you're mad at your husband in the first place and have sex with him. Right? Your deal is is like, I'm gonna be I'm gonna I can stay correct. He can stay wrong. I will have sex with this other man, and then I won't really hold it against him because he doesn't mean anything into to me anymore. And that's the thing. It's like you're not fighting out of passion and fighting out of love like a regular marriage would. That's how they battle. You you live with people for so long and, like, you're just gonna disagree and you're fight, and your passions are gonna boil over because you care about what you're fighting about. But when you stop fighting and say, look. I'm just gonna get what I want over here, and actually, I'm gonna fight less with my husband. You're fighting less with your husband because you care less about him. Mhmm. That's the way that's working. And so once again, it's like you just ran a marathon by taking a taxi cab and then still cross the finish line and acting like you rocked it. You didn't rock it. You cheated. You you didn't maintain a marriage. You did whatever you had to to make it look like you were crossing the finish line, but it was a lie. The whole thing was a lie. You didn't actually cross the finish line because you didn't run the pavement to get there. We have this crazy idea that marriage is about fulfilling my needs,

and if my spouse isn't fulfilling my needs, then I need to fill them some other way. Yeah, that is very crux of this discussion, absolutely. So, like, whatever happened to my marriage, the purpose is to glorify God? Yeah, that wasn't part of the I mean the open band of lady cheaters is probably not on that Which goes back to what do you expect to have a godless society? Mean, you know,

yeah, I've really shifted in my thinking over the years I guess, because I think gosh, even the church, I think we have caused this in the last fifteen, twenty years, all these sermon series is on meeting the needs of your spouse blah blah blah blah, but what the spouse hears is, yeah, you're supposed to meet my needs. Right. And it becomes a weapon rather than a tool to to make a marriage better, it becomes a weapon that this is why I get to do what I want because you're not meeting my needs. Yeah. And and we're gosh.

This thing just breaks my heart. I mean, right. Like, there's, there's three options, I suppose, if you wanna think about it, is you have, in a marriage, you're submitting your marriage to God and acting faithfully within it because of what God calls marriage to be. You're submitting to your husband or spouse in service to them, or you're primarily in it for your for your own needs. And, like, this is basically just choosing the third option and saying Yeah. This is a this is a contractual thing. This is what I expect to get out of it. If you're not yeah. Supplying You're not supplying the goods at the cost that I want or what I'm willing to pay for it, then I will get it from a different supplier Yep. Who doesn't give me the hassle and can make things happen on time. So we've thrown out for better for worse, for rich for poor, sickness and health. It it's just kinda I just wanna be happy. Yeah. And so and and I suppose with the the caution the caution, of course, would be is that, like, this that it is a you're trying you have a mow what feels like a momentary

solution that, like, that it's it's not it's simply not sustainable. Right? Like, that's not a long term thing. It just it what feels like current success is just the covering up of an underlying issue that is going to reveal itself. And the thing that you've not dealt with is still gonna be there five years from now, ten years from now, whenever you are are unable to, man or lady, get it is what you're looking for outside of your contract now. Right. It's it's like your situation actually hasn't changed. It's just it's just you've you've allowed you put a blindfold on and said, you know, things are fine.

I'd be interested for the long term perspective here, like someone that's done this thing and they're 85 now, and they're like, yes. That was definitely this this the way to go. That was a great idea. I mean, I no nobody else can see this. Have you not met women? I mean, this this is the crazy thing, and and I don't know. Women tend to be like, they don't take those things lightly.

Right? Like like, especially the emotional cheating. Like, the physical stuff is even easier for them to get over some of the time than it is like connection and an emotional connection of of someone cheating on them. So the fact that they'd be willing to do the exact same thing and and and hip hip hooray about it, like, it's just it's just a very odd stance. I I mean, you're protecting something that isn't actually doesn't exist. Yeah.

Hold on a second. I lost my I got some kinda weird Windows message. I got I lost the rest of my article. Oh, no. Hold on. Pull up. I was gonna read the rest of this. There was a

two overlapping. I don't even know people it's I I I now that now that I'm thinking about this, I have the same question about this that dad, it's about the sex trafficking. I don't even know how this happens. Yeah. I don't even know how these things occur. Let's see. Here we go. You know, I actually, the tag on to one of them ladies who says, hey. Look. It's so like, I travel out of town for work. Right? And, like, where she says, like, I I'm faithful except for when I go out of town, you know, for work or whatever. And I'm like, I've never once

thought to say to anybody, hey. I'm out of town. You know? It's you know? I mean, usually, they could pretty much pick up on the fact that you don't live here. That's why you staying in a hotel. Right. Oh, yeah. That's it. Right? But other than that, like, it doesn't come up as, like, weird cover. I don't understand the boldness of people. You know? Like, especially when I'm out of town, I won't even I won't even be in a room with another woman. You know what saying? It's just easier. I hang out dudes and dudes only, and then that's it. That's it's done. Because then these conversations like that never come up. And I I just don't understand people. Continue on. Sorry. I was like, how do you how do you start well, honey, I don't know how I got the herpes. I mean Yeah. You know, boy, I I can't explain that. I mean,

I I You know, I we're I mean, maybe we're just we we don't have the suaveness to pull this type of thing off. I I but, like, I do I I don't I don't understand how this is done. I don't understand how people are finding fee finding folk who are agreeing to this. And you're right, Mike. It's the book the boldness of people is outrageous. It's the same guy who would who is fishing the Craigslist looking for underage people. Right? You're like, how could you be, like there's no shame here. And so there's just outright boldness saying, yes. That's what I prefer.

I prefer this person who's not my spouse. Yes. Right. And Can I have you? I mean, we're in the age of technology. Your wife done text you three, four times that night. Right? Your kids Facebook like, FaceTimed you and want to see talk to you while you was out of town or whatever. Mom. You know what saying? And and you still pulling this off guilt free? I mean, I could see back in the day when no one could really get ahold of you by phone. Like, you were on a business trip for ten days, you were gone, and then you came home ten days later and whatever. No one really asked or was up to date on you. But, I mean, we're talking about social media and text messaging and phone calls, and people can get ahold of you whenever they want. Like, you in constant contact with your people back home. I don't know how you're shelving that in four minutes and deciding it's time to go cheat with somebody. You know? That's just that's just crazy to me. It says, in a secret life of the cheating wife, power, pragmatism, and pleasure in women's infidelity, another book on infidelity to be published this November, the sociologist

Alicia Walker elaborates on the concept of female infidelity as a subversion of traditional gender roles. To do so, she interviews 40 women who sought or participated in extramural relationships through the Ashley Madison dating site. Like the state of affairs, Walker's text offers valuable insight simply by way of approaching its subject from position of curiosity as opposed to prevention or recovery, and she investigates which factors led the women in her study to go outside their marriages. Surely, might think a woman who would do such a thing must be acting out of her desire to escape a miserable marriage. And yet it turns out this isn't always the case. Many of the women Walker interviewed were in marriages that were functional. Oh, that's glorious. Sounds romantic. Yep. Like the women I knew who cheated, many of the interviewees said they liked their husbands well enough.

Ringing endorsement. He's alright. They had property together. Sorry. They had friendships together. They had children they were working together to raise. But at the same time, they found married married life incredibly dull and constraining and resented the fact that as women, they felt they consistently did a disproportionate amount of the invisible labor that went into maintaining their lifestyle.

One woman in Walker's book told her the inequality of it all is such an annoying factor that I'm usually in a bad mood when my spouse is in my presence. And another said that while her husband was a competent adult in the world, at home he felt like another child to clean clean up after. Yeah. That's a reasonable complaint about dudes. Yeah. I don't I don't support the reaction, but I certainly recognize the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Many of the friends I spoke to expressed similar feelings. I shop and cook. My husband does dishes and empties the trash. One told me, we each do our own laundry, but I've always been in charge of the calendar. And what I didn't realize until recently is that in some way, I'm in charge of managing many of our relationships. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.

I mean Welcome to the big world. Yeah. I mean, we supposed to feel sorry for you? I I don't understand. I'm in charge of the calendar. My wife's in charge of the calendar. You know why? Because she does it better than I do. Because I tried it one time, and it was a disaster. Let's see. My husband is a homebody, and I initiate plan almost all of our social endeavors. My mom got this phrase from her therapist, keeping the pulse of the household. This idea that someone has to be managing the emotional heart of your tiny community, I think women do that a lot. I do. I agree. I do think women do that a lot. Yeah. And I would agree with Mike. It's because they do it better. And because they care. Yeah. Yeah. You know I mean, it's to their credit. Right? Are they saying, look. I I don't want the credit. I just don't want this. Unfair?

Yeah. So so I I think the thought is that, like, how did I get sacked with this? And I here's the deal. You're gonna feel if you don't value it, then that's what it's gonna feel Well, here's the thing. It's like that that could be a societal thing anyway. Right? Like, bulk of people will say, well, given the opportunity, like, here, you should do this. You'll get people you will be esteemed or you have credit. People will think well of you, and they go, it's easier just not to do anything. Right? And so, like, I I mean, it could just be a sign of the times. People don't wanna do nothing for no reason at all. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I suppose if you don't find value and look. What so Dan's right. Like, my wife keeps up with our social relationships because if push came and shove, I wouldn't do it. Right. I'd drop them. Yeah. I bet. I can sit at home and watch TV. Yeah. That doesn't speak well of me, but it is accurate. I mean so

let's see. And as Peril repeats frequently in this book and in her previous one, little does as much to muffle erotic desire as this kind of caretaking and enmeshment. Now here's the here's what I will say is that's true. As a husband, if if you are simply another child of whom your wife has to nanny because you are lazy or and and, like, are are are basically making her follow you around to cause you to act like an adult,

yeah. I can't be you can't be anything but surprised that your wife is upset and doesn't look at these, what otherwise I would say, are valuable things, things that are fantastic that that my wife takes care of, for example. No wonder she doesn't look at them positively. It's a drain on her. Mhmm.

And so so I think, we're remiss here that the conversation like I said, I I think a lot of what we're hearing here are things that that men have been saying a lot more shallowly, I might add, for many years. But but, like, certainly, the other part of this relationship is that

women aren't being treated like women. Yeah. You know what though? Like, I'm the only one who mows my yard, right? I I don't don't go up and down the yard thinking to myself this is just unfair, I'm gonna go have them fair. You know, I mean,

I need to have sex with other women because my wife won't do the yard. No. No. I no. I I agree. I the output is wrong. This just isn't right. Yeah. The output is wrong. Yeah.

But the but but I think we'd be remiss to not acknowledge that the the core the core thought process that starts the trajectory seems like one that is reality and that I have seen. Right? Like, that that that women are feeling underappreciated and they feel like they're having to parent their husbands at times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And you know what? We have to father our wives. My wife has never changed her oil.

Oh, yeah. You know? She'll she'll let it run bone dry if I don't say, hey, have you checked the oil? Right. She doesn't even know how to. Right. Well, okay. I'll be your dad then. Well, you be my mom, pick up my socks, I'll be your dad and check your oil. You should pick up your socks, Dan. I know I should. She should check her oil. That's also true. Okay. I don't check my oil here, but That's a bad example.

Yeah. You know, and I like, this is this is all framed, obviously, framed within the concept of how we think marriage from a godly perspective. Yeah. It's easier to keep this thing in that context. But like, I think if you were to look broadly in societally, we would say people have looked at marriage and

have ceased to value aspects of why you marry another person. Right? And and, like, have said, it's I no longer like, the things that we otherwise might like, like, hey. My husband checks my oil for me or make sure my car's running. What comes with the sense of, hey. I don't wanna have to be dependent on him. I don't want to feel like he has to do all these things.

And you start taking away, like, the things that that that the the different spouses have traditionally done. You no longer value them and so then they do they feel like labor as opposed to service and grace. Yeah. And that and and that's that is that is a perception problem. Mhmm. We stop seeing Yeah. Those things as

Yeah. Let's see. It says, I think there's an incredible amount of deep resentment for women in America about divisions of labor labor,

and what social scientists are finding now is that there's a correlation between equal division of labor and better sex. No matter how much attention is paid to these issues, she told me, these kind of cultural beliefs hang on a long time after they're relevant. They hang on in ways that are often invisible. A lot of women have tried to address these problems and have faced a lot of stubbornness from husbands. They feel there's no way to win this battle, so maybe now that women are deciding is so now what what women are deciding is that infidelity is a third way. So I would also agree with Dan that like one does not lead to the other. Right? Like you can have a stubbornness in your marriage and like you stepping out of the marriage isn't that's not solving a problem. That's that's walking away. And so like, I think we have to recognize it like, just because we've tied those things together in a sentence does not mean that those that's the next logical conclusion. Right. Mhmm. Of course, it's a third way that is not feasible for everyone even if more women are taking it up. Usually, women who feel financially secure and independent enough to risk potential fallout. These women seem to be finding that no amount of sensitivity or goodwill on part of their husbands can save them from the fact that in every arena, from work to marriage to parenthood, they're always doing more for less. As Wade put it, it's such a precarious balance keeping everyone happy that for many women to start a long conversation about her own sexual satisfaction seems like a bad idea. We now tell women that they can have it all, that they can work and have a family and deserve to be sexually satisfied. And then when having it all is miserable and overwhelming or they realize marriage isn't all it's cracked up to be, maybe having affairs is the new plan b. Now listen to me, you lazy bastard.

Your marriage is not what it's all cracked up to be because you're choosing to do it in a ridiculously stupid way. If you have two people pining to do what's best for the other person, that does not equal the marriage he's talking about. That's true. Right. I'm sorry. Was it a lady? I'm sorry. I

like yelling at fellas. I don't yell at ladies well. Ma'am. Just end with ma'am. Yeah. So that's true. Right? The very crux of this description

is you're trying to have it all, but it seems like it's all the wrong things. Well, that's they're pointing their finger at the institution of marriage, and the truth is it is what you what you make of it. Your marriage is whatever you put into it and however mostly, if you follow what God tells you to do and the way that you are to view two people becoming one, that does that that means you never get the option to be one person separate again.

That's the deal. That's what happens when two become one. And so, like, when you walk into this thing going, this is what I'm doing forever. And, like, any amount of sex I plan on having is dependent on how well I treat this person. Right? There's a reason God didn't say, and you may have sex with the trees. Because people wouldn't do nothing else. Yeah. That's all they'd be doing all the time. And so he says, look. It's a good and perfect gift, but you're gonna get it through another person, and it's gonna create intimacy, and it's gonna create closeness. And and and to get that, you're gonna have to treat them well. And so you basically traded all the good things that God has built into marriage to create what he needs it to be and what it was designed to be. You wanna throw those out, do whatever you want, and expect the same output. And then when it doesn't happen, you wanna kick your toys and then run for the hills and do what you wanted to do in the first place.

You've created a problem and then pointed back at it and said, this is a problem. I can't believe this. Right. Right. The institution sucks. You and really, it's you are not that yeah. Like, you're blaming it on the institution of marriage when it's it's your participation within the institution. Yes. Right? It's the things that are going on inside it. It's it's, like,

marriage actually, so they they they they talked about that. It said that I tested this idea on a few of the friends who confided me about their affairs and most of them agreed. Twenty or thirty years ago, they might have opted for divorce because surely there was another man out there who could do better in this role who could satisfy them completely. But a lot of these women are children who divorced. They lived through the difficulties divorce can create. Maybe that's the essential question. The question preceding Farell explores in her book, why do women still marry when if statistics are to be believed, marriage doesn't make them very happy? I confided in a friend once that after fifteen years of marriage, the institution and the relationship itself continued to mystify me. At the time I married, marriage had felt like a panachia. It was a bond that would provide security, love, friendship, stability, and romance. The chance to have children and nice dishes to be introduced to someone's wife. It promised to expand my circle of family and prove my credit score to tether me to something wholesome and give my life meaning. So, like, the expectation is, like, that marriage doesn't do that. Your relationship within the marriage is what is what actually connects the the binds. Right? The marriage is the agreement that that's what you're gonna do. Yeah. But it's not the doing of it. Yeah. The marriage itself doesn't provide security, love, friendship, stability, or romance.

The the guy does that you're married to. Yeah. He he does that. So I mean, you know, you gotta be careful who you're bound to here. I mean, that certainly makes sense. Here here's the thing. It's like if you if you saw the importance of that, like coming off on this if if we're you're creating a third leg that says, you know, we don't have to resolve these problems. I'm just going to cheat on my husband or cheat on my wife.

When, like, the lessons we can be learning is that, like, we need to recognize what we're entering into. Like, we're we're entering into a commitment to people. And, like, if you don't feel like you can be committed to this person, for heaven's sakes, don't do it. Right? Like, if this isn't someone like, if you can't look down the road and say, you know what? Hey. He's he's not lazy, and he actually seems to love and support me, then fine. You know? Go through the process. But, like, I you know, marriage doesn't solve problems. It it tethers you to the problem if you've got the wrong person. It teaches you humility. Yeah. Especially if you're the dude. Let's see. My

friend told me she felt this way of thinking was the only answer and the way she'd come to reconcile her feelings about the relationship. She said that she used to compare her marriage to her parents who always seemed totally in love. Until the end of my mom's life, they were spooning together every night in a double bed, not even a queen. But she added, they were awful and narcissistic with very little to give their children. It's kind of an extreme example. My friend felt she and her husband were much better parents, involved and attuned to their kids. But often, she went on and can feel like my husband and I are running a family corporation together and that our emotional intimacy consists of gossiping about our friends and watching Game of Thrones. Yeah. I mean, that happens. I got I mean, I'm most likely to gossip about the children and not watch Game of Thrones. We've been watching stuff on the Hallmark Channel. Oh.

It's it's gotten me reeled in. Sometimes I wonder if when the kids leave, should either a, have a passionate affair or b, find another husband. I may do neither, but it seems like a is more likely than b. I don't have any illusions that marrying someone else will make me happy. Not anymore. Dang. Dang. This article is a drag.

It's it's not my experience. No. No. Neither is mine. Like, this is not an institute of marriage problem. I'm telling you, you're you're participating in it wrongly. Like, you showed up and said, give me all these things that I want. And they said, well, listen. If if you I that that was basically the deal. Right? Like, if if you love your spouse in the way that that they need to be loved, you'll receive love back in the exact same way. It'll be of equal measure. Right? And that's the way it works. Like, you can't support yourself and then blame them for not supporting you. Right? Like, if you support your spouse, your spouse supports you, then you have are both supported and everybody's happy, and it's it's that's the way that it works. And it it falls sometimes, and it sucks sometimes. And sometimes they didn't understand the support you wanted, and sometimes you didn't explain the support you wanted. And then there's a rift or whatever, but, like, communication fixes that, and then you're back to good again. And so, like, I I don't under it's you're you're you're taking the you call it the institute of marriage, and you are slandering it into the ground only because you've been doing it wrong. That's basically like like going up to the oh, I don't know. What would be a good example? It's like getting the car into the front seat and riding it facing backwards and then saying the front seat is uncomfortable. Yeah.

This car is always going the wrong direction. You're using it wrong. You're using the car incorrectly. Yeah. That's what's happening here. You took something that it's it's it's a classic example of anything we've ever screwed up as humanity.

Right? God tells you, hey. Build this city. Hey. I'll invent bricks. And you're like, you know we're gonna do with the bricks? We're gonna build out a tower so big to the to the heavens. God's like, dang it. That's not what I intended for the bricks. You know? And you guys and then you come up with this plan. And the same thing with marriage. Well, Lord, I wanna have more sex and Greg don't wanna have much sex with me. So I'm gonna have sex with another guy. No. That is not what I intended for you to do. You're gonna end up with half of half broken hearts all over the town. You guys keep acting like this. I gave you the marriage for a reason. It was to protect you and to enrich you, and then you blame it for not working because you didn't wanna participate in it. Wrong. Wrong answer. You're using the car wrong.

Jeez. Alright. Anyway, that was it. That's the whole article. Why women That's a terrible article. Yeah. Yeah. That's difficult. I don't know that this is a was widespread as they're making it sound because because you got a couple sleep about friends that are okay with cheating on their husband. I don't know though, live in a little bubble. You know, we're in a Christian little bubble. Yeah, it's true I suppose. Mean I don't know, I got a lot of friends that ain't no Jesus for no reason. Here's

the thing, this goes back to that boldness thing though, It's like, I I I look around. I think the people that I that I that aren't in my Christian bubble. Alright? And I think everyone like, they're not bold. They're not they're they're not brave. They don't have suave people skills to pick up ladies and other gents. No. I think it does have to be a perfect storm of a, you don't know Jesus, and b, you just got a lot of self confidence or some swarthiness to you. And you had enough to drink. And there's there might have been some booze involved. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or the environment just lends it to people making mistakes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I could see that. Well, and where a Christian man would mitigate that environment. Right? Like, like the exact same guy will go out of town who loves Jesus and go, nah, no hotel for me. You know, I'm gonna bring a guy with me. You know? That'll definitely curb that. Done. Yeah. Done. Alright. Anyway, that's it. That was the article. Yeah. That Mike, let's do let's do some let's do a couple advices. Okay. I told you we might we might be able to tuck this up tight today. Okay. Ready? Yeah. Dear life from the path. I have been married for forty five years. My husband and I get along fine. We each have our little quirks, but after all these years, we're used to each other. There's just one thing that really bugs me about them. When repairs need to be done outside the house, we have it done. New roof, new siding, driveway, paved, even solar panels.

We also have, done some work inside, such as remodeling the kitchen and bathrooms. Uh-huh. Twelve years after moving into our home, I finally insisted that that it be repainted on the inside. My husband griped about it nonstop. I told him he didn't have to do the painting. We would hire someone to do the job. He did have to help me move the furniture. Well, now it's time to replace the carpet. It's original. Thirty years old, stained and worn out. Again, he's griping and complaining. He drives a wedge between us. Oh,

money isn't the issue. He says I am, quotes, always bothering him with one thing after another. Is it asking too much to have these things done inside my home after so many years? Quotes nagging wife. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. You're not telling the whole story. Like you just mentioned all the times you wanna do remodels. You didn't mention the time that you're like, Greg, you didn't put the spoons in right. Greg, your shoes are facing the wrong direction. Greg, when you're gonna be the last one out of the bed, you're gonna make the bed, and that's the rules, Greg. You know what I'm

not saying that he's right here. I mean, 30 years old is an outrageously long time for carpet to be still be in your house. Yeah. That that wore out twenty years ago. Yeah. I mean, there's there's a good chance Jimmy Hoffa underneath there. But at the end of the day, I I I don't know if that gives you a pass just because you only nag about remodeling on occasion, but then you also nag about everything else all the time. I mean, if the money is not a problem, can't you just order the carpet? Yeah. Just order. I mean, it. You wanna get a new carpet? If he doesn't wanna do it, just order it. Yeah. It's not you're gonna pick it out anyway. Greg says I ain't gonna help move the furniture. I don't give a crap, Greg. I'll hire someone to do that too. We don't need you. See here here here's the problem. The guy has arthritis, and he wakes up, and he's in pain and he doesn't feel good and his allergies are messed up and she's talking about carpet and he all he knows is he hurts and so he gets grumpy and then she says there's a wedge between us. They have a great marriage. Yeah. Just just get the carpet,

Get on with your life. Yeah. I mean, Greg could try to function as a whole human. Maybe not because because that new carpet would feel good on the arthritis. One thought, Greg. I hurt. I go So that is another thought, though. It's like, the money's not a problem and he doesn't care about the carpet, why does he he goes, yeah. Go ahead and order the carpet. I mean, a simple new sentence would solve this problem. Well, and maybe he does have a point. Why are you bothering me about this woman? Why don't you just pull the trigger on it? Don't bother your husband at all. Just say, hey, Got new carpet coming in Tuesday. See, yeah. See, they love the conversation. My my wife has always asked me asking me questions on colors. Now, she knows I'm color blind, and and and for thirty three years, I say, I don't know. Not only do I not care, I don't know. I can't tell you what color that is, so I can't tell you if that looks better than the other. But she she still asks every single time, hey. Do you like this color or that one? I don't know. Uh-huh. I don't care. No. She likes the conversation. It's it's the journey. Oh, yeah. That's true. So you play the game. Oh, I don't know. This looks a little brighter, I think. Yeah. Looks gray, really, to me, but You know? One tenth of lies. Yeah. I think so. That's like you do at the eye doctor. One or two. Two, I guess. Yeah. I'm thinking two. Yeah. I don't know. You know that right again? How long has this guy been checking eyes? He knows when you tell him the lies. You know, it'll like, one, two, one. Do you have a three? Yeah. Guess. I I can't stand that guy. He's just a pompous jerk with that eyeglass thing. Click click click click click. Is one better than two? You know the answer to this. You put the stronger lens on too. Are you just trying to call me an idiot?

Hey. Here's the deal too. They they have the ability to do they have a line that validates twenty fifteen, like, see better than normal, like, superhuman. Yeah. And, I mean, he's got lenses that will get me that far, and he always gets that far and then then backs it down. He's like, we'll give you twenty twenty. I need you to come back. Yeah. I said, give me the full I mean, give me the superhuman. I'll take the twenty fifteen, sir. Yeah. Really. Hey. The only other thing to note here, and this goes back to the this goes back to the the lady conversation,

is although not relevant in every case, sometimes, ladies, if you don't wanna if you don't wanna be a mother to your husband, stop mothering him. But, I mean, sometimes sometimes you're doing that. Right? It's possible that, like, you became his mom, and he and you don't wanna be, so you should just just stop. Yeah. You you know what, though? I can have a pile of about three foot deep of socks on my side of the bed though.

And every once in while I think, oh, look at that, I better wash these socks. If she stops mothering me, she has to live with that. No. That's true. That that's the question. Right? Like Yeah. Are you willing to put up with that and like slowly change behavior? She waiting for me to get embarrassed. I'm like, I'm not embarrassed. No. Nobody sees this. No one's coming in this room but me. It's soft for me to walk on when I get out of bed. That's my pile of socks. It's it's on my side of the bed. Exactly. Who cares? Yeah. No one's coming. The dog don't even come that far. Exactly. Yeah. Segular says, the question was,

am I asking too much to have these things done inside my home after so many years? Segular says, I don't think so. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes carpet. Make a deal with him. You hire someone to move the furniture this time if he will stop complaining. The disruption will be over in a few days, and the interior of your home will look fresher and newer once that carpet is history. What do you work for the carpet company? Yeah. Really. You just basically described new carpet. That was your answer. She already wanted carpet. It's done. It's a done deal. Here we go. Dear life from the path, I have a problem I don't think you have ever addressed. Oh, boy. Both of my testicles have been removed. Yikes.

You know, we were just talking about this last week. Okay. Continue. Fortunately, they were not cancerous.

Oh. What? Why did you take them out? He just hid around. I mean, mine aren't cancerous either. I left them in. Okay. Hold on. Moving on. It doesn't bother my wife, which is a blessing. Sure. The blessing, she married an idiot who had his bones removed for no reason. I I assume that they they thought there might be a problem and so we had him taken out Yeah. And then they they turned out to be nothing. Most most support groups are for cancer survivors. And I'm wondering if you know of any groups for men like me.

Cancer non survivor. What? Some days, I still can't cope with it because this part it's part of a being a man. Any suggestions? Boy, I just I'm confused, fella. You had your balls removed for apparently no reason at all. We don't have any preventative tests in modern medicine to check if there's cancer in there first before we slice and dice them. No. Sometimes they gotta go in after stuff. Yeah. They could could've been like that, you know, you really

have a good chance, a high probability of having it, so just get them out. Well, mean, can't they put in the nauticals? Yeah. That's what I don't understand. Like, don't yeah. They're don't they put something back in there? So I mean, hopefully not metal or anything so it won't clack around, but, know, some I think it's fiberglass, isn't it? The little silver balls on the strings that flop back and forth. If I can gather what this man's asking, he can't really go to a cancer survivor's group because he didn't now have the cancer. Right. But he misses his band balls.

I mean, I don't okay. So I'm gonna admit that I I feel like I shouldn't speak to this because my first reaction is like, you're just gonna have to get over this, man. Yeah. You don't have cancer. Hey. Hallelujah. Alright? It's oh, what? I mean, you still did you your penis still works. You still use it. That's how I attach manliness. Are you looking for children? Because I think at at this point, like, just it's a done deal.

It's all just done. I mean, you could tie some some fishing weights or something down there. I'm not sure. I don't know what to say. Mean, think of how many women have had hysterectomies. Well, yeah.

You know? And I don't mean, there's no exterior look of a hysterectomy though. Oh, breast I mean, taking breast Okay. Mastectomy. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. And and preventative. Preemptive. Yeah. So And like yeah, that happens and I get it, like there's something associated with that. I get that, but like it's way more obvious for a woman who's had a mastectomy than it is for a guy who took his testicles out. I'm trying to think of how, it's

kind of delicate, I mean how often would you even you know realize there's nothing there? When you get done halfway through the day and be like there's nothing stuck on the side of my leg, that's awesome.

Don't have to shift that to sit on this bike. This is great. I don't know. I don't I've not lost them, so maybe I'm not I'm making part of the wrong thing. That's what I'm saying. I feel like I'm being insensitive, I think it's overdone. I mean, just like when they when when ladies get mastectomies, like, have the option to get implants of some kind, right? And they have fake balls, they put them in dogs all the time. Really? I did not know that. Yeah. Yeah. The white the yeah. In dogs? Oh, yeah. Hair? Yeah. I see. I mean, this guy should talk to a vet. He's obviously dealt with this problem. Yeah. But but I mean, we're thinking, like, I mean, when when is this guy in a context where anybody would know? Yeah. I don't I mean, what I mean, even you at the water I

have questions. Like, is it light and fluffy? It does not feel like it's got any weight to it like a cheap microphone. The expensive ones are heavy. Oh, yeah. The the cheap ones feel like there's nothing going on. I mean, that kind of the concern? Is he just self conscious about it? Well, of course so. I mean, I would I think feel like it would be because it's just different, and it feels it feels like it something not right. I put I'd try the fishing weights. Yeah. Just put some in there. Certainly, there's a plastic surgeon who can handle this type of thing. I yeah. I mean yeah. Slice, insert, nautical,

sew them up, down. I think you gotta be careful what you put in there, Mike. I don't think you can just, put in random. Couple of marbles. Grapes. Yeah. Alright. Let's see what Segular says. I I am fascinated by the potential in this advice. Go ahead. Segular says, the doctor who saw you through the procedure may be able to refer you to a group or therapist who can help you with your adjustment. Comedy. If you if you have I don't think she did that for comedy. That's funny. If you haven't already contacted that physician, it would be a good place to start. Although most members of support groups are probably cancer survivors, you still have much in common. So keep an open mind before dismissing the idea entirely. I mean, there's gotta be there's for folks who've had surgery that weren't cancer,

I bet there's there might be, like, surgery type of thing, like major medical problems. Yeah. Sure. You got time for one more? Yeah. Let's do one more. Dear, life from the path. What is the appropriate response when I get an invitation to go somewhere and I must decline because I can't afford it or don't want to pay for it? I'm trying to cut my expenses, and I'm embarrassed that I can't afford any new expenses.

I appreciate the invitations, and sometimes if it's worth it to me, I will accept. Okay. Sometimes I pick up the pen and write on the envelope and sign my name. She didn't say that part. I don't want to lie when I really want to say this expense isn't worth it to me. What can I say that won't hurt anyone's feelings and won't get me caught in a lie? Wow. You have the tendency to talk too much.

Dear dear life in the past, I have no tact. I feel like I should have some. What are your thoughts? Dear dear six answers when one will do. Not attending. Love so and so. Yeah. Why don't you come out? I can't afford it. I mean, I whatever. How how close are these people to you? I don't know. She said apparently, she gets a lot of invites. Yeah. Don't

this problem. Yeah. You could just say, I really can't make it. Yeah. Can't make it. And they can decide if they wanna ask why. But They say, you busy? Yeah. Busy not making it. Busy counting my money. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not spending when I'm sitting at home. I don't want any new expenses. Yeah. I'm trying to save up for a trying to save up for a noodle. Why are you saying what is that noodle? That's what goes that's the fake ball. New oh, new testicle? That's it? Yeah. Nudicle. New. N e u. Fake fraudulent. N e u? Yeah.

Like club Nuevo. It's a new vo. That's a Spanish testicle? Yeah. Nuevo. Anyway. Yeah.

Well well, what can what she's saying also specifically, what should what can I say? Yeah. Can't What make can I say that won't hurt anyone's feelings and won't get me caught in a lie? Okay. Here's let's just let's take this one at a time. What can I say that won't hurt anyone's feelings? There's no such phrase. Someone's gonna be offended by something. I'm sorry. I have to decline. Yeah. Just say, no. I can't make it. Yeah. I mean, if someone wanted you there, it does there's no magic sense if it goes, you know what? I really wanted them there, but the way that they said that, I now no longer care. Yeah. Yeah. It's not how it works. If it's a person that knows you knows you well and you send them a vague, hey, man. I ain't gonna make it, they're gonna call. What do you mean you ain't gonna make it? No. That ain't gonna work for me. I need the skinny.

Yeah. And then what was the other one? And won't get me caught in a lie. Don't tell lies. Yeah. There. Done and done. Yeah. Mean, here's the thing. It's like, if you've if you've a circle of friends and you say no to eight things out of 10, yeah, it might come up every once in while where someone says, hey. How come you said yes to that? I thought you were watching your expenses. You say, I was. Yeah. And I am.

This just I I just felt like splurging on this one. Man, I mean, don't people have any tact at all? You know? Like, yeah. You gotta live once in a while. I mean, come up with something broad in general that doesn't run and slam a guy or say, yeah. But, Tim, all your ideas are stupid, and I don't wanna do those. But the one that Jerry came up with, I think that rocks. You know, I mean, just say, yeah, you know, I gotta splurge on something. I guess we'll do this thing this time. Yeah. Then it's back to probably pretty strict living. And you need to quit living in fear. You're you're worried about hurting everybody's feelings? Man, you can't do it. Yeah. You're gonna hurt people's feelings. I mean, that's just life. Yeah. Not when you're watching your expenses. Yeah. Segular says, it isn't shameful to admit to someone that money is tight and you have to cut expenses.

So you can't attend an event. It's something that everyone should be able to identify with. However, you should refrain from saying the expense quotes isn't worth it to you because it comes across as judgmental and the person may take offense. Blame Dave Ramsey. Yeah. Sorry. Ramsey bossing me around. Yeah. Can't do it. Alright. We agree with that. That's that's most what we said. Yeah. I pull.

I ain't coming. Hey. Go ahead, man. Hey. You listen live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. Really do appreciate it. If you have any thoughts on the show, if they're good show good thoughts, shoot us an email at vote live from the path dot org. If they're bad thoughts, shoot them to Chris Roloff. That's, [email protected], probably. Anyway, next week on the show oh, there will be no show next week, but we'll hope we can catch up with those Wings Refuge folks and see what we can learn about this sex trafficking business and see how good news changes the world even in that arena. In the meantime, be faithful in means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the past.