Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. You're listening to live for the Path. We're coming to the Pathway Studios

here in Johnston Proper. It's good to be here. Mike, where did you go? You can't it just disappeared. I was looking for a screwdriver, and I couldn't find one. I need to let his

hey. Are those wrenches here, Ben? No. They were in they were in that big green van. Oh.

Yeah. There was a bunch of stuff in that green van of yeah. That we got from Buva. That sounds And the wrenches were in there. Sounds like booze property either way. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Okay. Hey. You're listening to live from the Path. Thanks for joining us on the show tonight. Big show. Got a real got a real big show. The weather was dicey. We had we were gonna talk to Vanessa McNeil tonight. She's working on a documentary about sex trafficking in Iowa,

and I saw her because she had done had interacted with Joy with Wings of Refuge, I thought, well, that would be kinda cool we were talking about that. Right? Like, our disconnect with understanding what that actually looks like

kind of in our own backyard. And so we're hoping to talk to her. Weather wise, just didn't work out tonight, but that's something we're still gonna do. So I do have a related story, though. Did you guys see have you been following at all the trial of Larry Nassar? Is that the gymnastic dude? Yeah. Yeah. So Christianity Today did an interview with one of the the ladies.

She got a lot of press, Christian press, for, like, offering forgiveness to this man. But but they Christianity Today did an interview with her, and I thought it was really compelling. One, because she was she was a little bit miffed at

Christian media because all they covered was the forgiveness part. And, like, she spoke of God's justice. She spoke of of calling to repentance. Like, it was it was quality, what she's done. But then she also talked about

she she ended up leaving her church, or for the most part said the church told her that she really just didn't have a place there based upon

she she basically I'm trying to think of the right right way to put this. She was calling out what she believed to be hypocrisy in the church when it comes to sexual abuse, and the church's reaction from her perspective was that they were they were just digging in, and she basically said that the church is one of the last places that people who have been sexually abused can actually find help,

and it and it ought not be. But I thought that there was some some very interesting things about her interview that I wanted to talk through, and it seems does this does this sniff right? Does this feel like I mean, obviously, I'm going to agree that it's her experience, but do we do we believe these are broad risks that the church

is running into? And basically, what can we do about it? What can help change that? There was also an article do you guys remember Matthew Loftus was was in here talking about the health care? Yeah. Yep. So he wrote an article today, and I won't I won't go through all of it. It's a two part article. In fact, I might wait to talk about it until he's done. But it starts talking about the church and

our reaction to to sexual abuse or or even the culture of sexualization of the culture. And the the reason I generally like him is he's pretty good at tagging or at least faithfully representing

kind of the broad ranges of where people at and then the risks of doing so, like, the the the left the the more liberal reaction to this, and how and basically, the how they react to it doesn't end up solving a problem. In fact, it runs smack dab into their kinda open sexualization advocation.

But then the Christian response on the other side of it tends to be kind of a hard line behavior control, which doesn't get to the root of some of our issues either. And so

maybe I'll wait. I I thought that kinda made sense to the trajectory stuff we're gonna talk about, but I might wait on that until he gets the second part out, because the first one really is it's posted on our website, but the first one really is just kind of the lay of the land, and I assume he's gonna pick up how are we to react to it. But I I generally find him to pretty a compelling guy. If we don't agree on everything, I at least find him well reasoned in in the things that he's talking about. So just know that that's out there. You go to lifefromthepath.org, there's a scroll down to the towards the bottom, and there's

basically writing that we like. And I posted that article out there for you in case you wanna take a look. Yeah. That sounds alright. Yeah. So let's see. What else? Do we have anything else on the docket? Mike, you had, like it's not Pope style. Do you get, like, things that clicked this week? What do think? Is it gonna bubble up? Well, kind of. It it it was basically going through we were teaching through the book of Job or whatever in youth group, and some things kinda I I don't know. You know, there's there's been some some things happen

maybe in my in my family in the last month or so that kinda left me just kinda staring at a wall going, I have no idea what I'm doing here. You know? Like, I I kinda been do had been doing something, and I thought, yes. This is alright. This is what we're to be doing. And then it kinda fell and didn't work at all and and and completely flopped, and I'm like, boy, I feel like I really missed misunderstood what was going on here. Yeah. And so I actually, teaching through the book of Job was really, really helpful for me. And so it could have been that, like, you know, 15 kids just stood there and went, I don't have any idea. I'm not getting anything. And I'm like, this is revolutionary.

You guys are making great sense to me. And so I was I was really thankful for it, as as I walked through it. And so, yeah, I I might have something a little to share, you know, as that goes by. Okay. Alright. I I think we were talking about before the show started. We we'd we'd be getting some hits on our on our YouTube videos Oh, yeah. Here lately, and they they've been pretty classic. Like, you know, we post all the shows go to YouTube in some fashion or another, and some of them get cut up into clips and and whatnot. And and, man, we had done a show I don't know. It had been four or five years ago. We were just having to be talking about some snake handlers. And and

a snake handler found it, watched the show, and then was extremely irritated that by what we had said. Yeah. So here here's his this is from Dean Bowling. This is from a week ago. And this was he was reacting to a story on

our take on snake handling churches. Because a guy had died. Right? Like, one of the snake handling preachers had gotten bit by the snake and then refused medical treatment, and that's the whole deal. Right? Like, is Yeah. That's what we're talking about. It's not the snake handling thing is not so much like the snake won't bite you, but that you won't need medical treatment if it does. Very similar to the story with Paul. Yeah. Yeah. And so that that was the clip. It was from 02/21/2014. Holy cow. His dean's hanging in the archives. And so here's his here's what he said. Mark 16 is not about Paul. That's an axe. Dan had misquoted,

Mark instead of x. The point was well taken, but he was critiquing it. He he said the word Mark, and he meant to say the word axe. Yeah. He told I mean, the way Dan explained it, he was he was totally in in the right scripture and explained all the right stories. He just said Mark instead of ax. Well, because Mark 16 does talk about it as well. You you bitten in that. Right. It does. So I thought it was mixed yeah. I mixed up my head. Yeah. Yeah. Seemed completely reasonable, but he he zeroed in on it, Dan. He had you. It says March 16 is not about Paul. That's an act, and it is not a sign of faith. Refusal of medical treatment is a sign of faith. Serpent handling is not a test of faith, never has been a test. It is a sign to unbelievers that God is real. Hey. I have that all the time. I see a man with a snake, and I say, the Lord lives.

You know? I I mean Didn't Paul say that? You look out at creation, you say, you know what? There is a God. That is true. There's a snake. Did either did one of those scriptures that that you referenced, like, do they say that that's what it is? Like, this is to be a sign to unbelievers that god is real? Mark 16 doesn't. Mark 16 just says that it's gonna happen, and and Acts is a demonstration well, so it it kind of was. So I think I get where they're coming from there. It kind of was to the people that were around Villagers were like, woah, look at that. Yeah. Yeah. But but that to that extent, miracle

he's tagged it with snake handling. The truth is miracles are assigned to people just like Jesus does miracles and the early church does miracles, and I think God does miracles today. Okay. Yeah. So he's tagged it as only snake handling. Miracles are assigned to people, a demonstration of God's power. Okay. And God did not oh, here we go. It is a sign to unbelievers that God is real. And God did not create medicine. Man did. His word says, thou hast no healing medicines. And so Buva had said that.

His reaction was, like, didn't didn't God help create God had created these things that we're using to help people. And so he says that man has no healing medicines. Now your topic of discussion is of Jesus only of a Jesus only man who believed it was okay to get bit and die. True believers do not. And the general belief that handling snakes is tempting God is a lie. Read the book of James. It says, God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth

he any man. So if God tells you to do something for him, he will not allow you to be hurt. I, for one among many, hate that y'all classify all serpent handlers together in one bunch. You are far from the truth. You will never hear most of our stories because we don't seek fame and glory or recognition from the world such as those seen on TV or the Internet. Hey, that's us, man. Yeah. I know he's got his peg here. We don't believe in TV or being made a sideshow as you call it. We don't swap wives and live like the devil. Is that an accusation against me? I don't I don't do that. Hey. The devil swaps wives? I don't have any scripture to back that up. I mean, sometimes I leave the light on all night. Does the devil do that? We try to live holy, he says. There is another side of serpent handling most have never seen and will and will never unless they happen to visit a true holiness believing church. We do not worship snakes. We didn't say that. Nor is it the foundation upon which our faith is rooted and grounded. It just happens to be a sign God allows us to do every once in a while. Please stop classifying all of serpent handling believers in one group. We despise that. Those of us who are true have never been on TV and never will. We have no desire to cast our pearl before swine, but we are tired of being grouped together with people who don't live right and die of serpent bite because of a faulty loss lifestyle. Deceived is what they are, we are not. That can I understand?

Basically, his what he's saying is is that the guy who did die, acted in such a way that God allowed him to die from the suicide. Yes. That's the point. Boy, that's eerily similar to Job, is it not? You had to have done something to deserve this. Yeah.

Okay. He sounds like like any other denomination that says, hey. We're not like the other Baptists. Don't put us all in the same pile. We're not like the other Methodists. We're not I mean, like like well, I don't know about Methodists, but, like, there's, like, 17 kinds of Baptists. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's true. They're like, dude, we're not like the American Baptists. I don't I don't know what they all are. I was wondering if people outside of the church ever ever, like, drove pie by the church, and they're like, reformed Baptist church. Oh. What? You know? You basically said, we've made a lot of mistakes, Baptist church.

That we've had to we've had to change things up a bit. We've got it right now. It's like putting in the under new management sign on your place. You're like, boy, how bad was this going? Well, not like the other Baptists. Yeah. Second Baptist Church or wherever. What was wrong with the first one? Okay. So, anyway, I did respond to him, and I don't respond to to a lot of the stuff that goes on to the YouTube, but I did respond to him. This was my response. I said, hi, Dean. Thanks for listening to the clip and taking time to respond. You're right. That reference is in Acts, not Mark. We could at least agree on that.

Your reference to Jeremiah 30 about medicine seems out of context. To say that verse 13 is universal to imply there's no healing medicine for everyone anywhere would require you to also believe that verse six is also universal for everyone at all times, in which I would expect you to currently have your hand on your stomach like a woman in labor and have a pale face. This was a Jeremiah's lament, and it was it was like a series of, you know, no one no one can be healed, no one believes, everyone's got a stomachache,

every no one does the right thing. Right? Like, it's there's a context to this of which he's pulled out, there is no medicine. So I said that that's what I said. There's a context to that whole section which you seem to be ignoring. I would say the same thing with your reference to James. Obviously, it is within human behavior to try and test God, which is why there's a clear command to not do so. See Deuteronomy six, which is quoted in Luke four and Matthew four. The context of James one is the discussion about temptations to sin. God is not tempted with evil nor sends evil to tempt. However, that does not preclude humanity from sinfully trying to manipulate God into doing what they want. They won't succeed, certainly, but it doesn't mean they won't try. To the broad subject, I certainly see hope within scripture for folks to be healed from a snake bite in faith, just like I would not restrict God from healing in any way he sees fit. However, those same scriptures do not point to doing these things intentionally as a demonstration of faith. Thanks for listening. Excellent. I feel like that's a fair and even handed response. Yeah. So we also what else? We got one today. Oh, there was a guy who listened to

Secular versus Solomon. No. No. I mean, here's the thing. You've you've you've been a part of Secular Solomon, fellas. Yeah. Like, this is not a this is not a high high church calling here. No, man. I mean, the graphics themselves should at least play out that it's not a it's it's not an exegesis on how to on on theology on either side. Yeah. So there was a secular versus Solomon from 09/04/2017, which has one thumb up, I might add, out of 21 views. But this guy

this guy takes a look, and he says here's his response to this secular versus Solomon. You cherry picked both secularism and the Bible to suit your fore drawn conclusion. I feel like he there's no way he listened to the whole the whole thing. It's a game, Mike, where we say, hey. This is a quote from is this a quote from the Bible or from Honduras?

I mean, I would expect someone to say, you guys are a bunch of racists or something like that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But yeah, but not take a a a serious biblical debate. Yeah. I suppose to I mean, to put this in complete context, an example of secular Solomon is someone gives a word of wisdom, and you have to decide whether the bible it's from the Bible or not. That's all. Yeah. That's the distinction. And, like, if it's I suppose we could have said bible versus not from bible. Yeah. But instead because it's catchier, you say secular or Solomon. Yeah. Because to be secular is not necessarily bad. Yeah. It's just not bible. That's right. We didn't say Solomon versus everyone else who sucks. You know, we just said secular Solomon. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Continue You what he

cherry pick this is our accusation. You cherry pick both secular secularism and the bible to suit your fore drawn conclusion. Christopher Hitchens, who is a known atheist, addresses the same topic and does so more clearly and succinctly, and in a tenth the time without all the boring silence and bumbling. Hey. That last part's accurate. I mean, at at least he's taking it in. Right? So maybe he did watch the clip. He's right.

Can we thumb up his response? Yeah. Yeah. No, I will. There we Yeah. You should like that. Okay. I liked it. Alright. So I said so I I didn't to be honest, I didn't quite catch what he was doing. I thought we had a conversation in Secular Solomon of which he was reacting to. It didn't I didn't have the idea that he actually was offended by the game as a whole. And so I said, thanks for listening. Can you be a bit more specific on the critique so I know what I'm listening for in the Hitchens response? Because he had given a clip. And he says, yes. Let me be clearer. Hitchens defines the secularism which is subscribed to by most secularists, which is never the secularism, often in no way secular, that is characterized by its critics. And I thought, yeah, there's he that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. Nothing at all. Yeah. Yeah. So final response, he said, ah, understood. The title of the game was more chosen for alliterative purposes than anything else. Certainly, we're using wisdom from either the biblical books of Proverbs or occasionally Ecclesiastes versus Proverbs from different countries that aren't sourced from scripture. But for folks wanting a deeper look into either Christian theology or secularist definition, you're right. Our game will fall short of both. Thanks again for listening.

So we'll see. Hey, man. Did someone reply like after your thing? No. No. That was four months ago. Someone someone caught the caught it right when it came out and said, I dig on it. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So hold on. There was one more there's one more that's always pretty good. It's so it's this is the highest

it's the highest viewed thing we've ever done. We we did a we read a children's book called Caps for Sale. And so we are nearing this year, we we should make our one millionth YouTube hit on Life in the Path. So that's pretty exciting. We should have a party. We should. We should do a party.

So but 770,000 of those have nothing to do with our Jesus or

low brow church related content. 770,000 of those are the Caps for sale. And so we this gets a lot of action.

The in fact, the we we have 770,000 views. The next closest reading of Caps for sale is at 80,000. Oh. I mean, we're But we dominate YouTube on Caps for Sale. Yeah. We're taking names on this one. Okay? Okay. Cool. However, it does draw its fair share of critiques. This is now almost eight years old. We did it November 2010. So, like, here's here's a guy who says, this is incredible.

I haven't heard this story in probably twenty five to thirty years, but I remember the images from the book. There's a guy from two years ago who said, my mom did a better job of reading this. Frown face. And so I responded and said, so did mine. Unfortunately, she wouldn't do it for our videos, so we had to handle it ourselves. Of which they responded, OMG.

Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Good or bad? Here we go. Bebe speaks from two years ago says, the monkeys in the book said, 'tis, ts, tsk, and imitate his movements. They never talked. That's a bunch of ad libbing. It's distracting. Oh, man. And then what this but this guy says, I like the monkeys talking in the background. Right on. The monkey dialogue is hilarious. Excellent rendition.

A minute thirty seven, somebody said, that's a nice place for a breast. What? What? Know we did say that. Breast? Yeah. What? What kind of accusation is that? Okay. The the the words in the book are, that's a nice place for a rest. Okay, Heidi Sao. You naughty.

YouTube is brutal. Oh, man. Anyway oh, this was one of my favorite books growing up, exclamation point. I'm not a fan of the monkeys talking. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Anyway Hey.

Sherwood Avery says, I hate it so much. And didn't spell hate right. Sorry. I had it so much. Okay. Anyway, there's a there's a there's a dip down the old YouTube channel. It's it's just nice that we can get that much passion out of people. I know. They're they're digging on it. Well, I mean, that's the thing. It's like, we never get Christians watching our stuff and then arguing over different points of, you know, maybe some something we've said that's denominationally offensive or whatever. Like, it's always a crazy secularist or atheist that catches it or our cap's for sale. It's just nothing but anger and and shrewd stares.

That that goes back to the Des Moines Amplified days. Oh, yeah. Boy, remember that time that we did we were we were doing the prayer room at at the atheist convention when it was in Des Moines? Oh, yeah. And, man, we I mean, the site was just getting lambasted with people. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. That okay. Yeah. I forgot about that. And then we did the end of the world, man, when Camby was calling the end of the world. We got some we got some pretty poor reviews from that one too. We got beat up on that one too because we took it too easy on him.

Remember because we wanted to talk to the what was the guy? David Brooks, and he was with he was in support of the Family Radio. He wasn't part of them, but, like, he basically believed that the end of the world was going to occur. Yeah. And he was the guy that paid for the billboard up in Ames. Okay. Yeah. And pretty reclusive guy, but he he came on the show, and we basically wanted him on. We were we we were still doing a two hour show back then. So the first hour, we were gonna talk to him, and we basically wanted to talk to him and figure out what why. What where is he coming from? Why does he believe this? And actually give him the opportunity to talk. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Were Get his argument. Yeah. And so we did, and then he left, and then we spent the back half talking about, like,

you know, why doesn't that make sense, and, you know, what's what's the matter with the theology behind that and all that stuff. And and, yeah, there was a there was a quite a few folks who were pretty upset and said we took it too easy on him, and that we shouldn't give him airtime. We shouldn't have given him exposure. And I'm like, you know, of the eight people that were listening at the time, you you don't seem to have caught in the bug. Yeah. So maybe we're alright. Well, mean, here's the doubt. Are we really supposed to be afraid of that? Right? Like, if God's truth is God's truth, what what what am I actually afraid of? You know what I'm saying? Like, let him speak for a little while. It's not like someone's gonna get five minutes into things like, that's all I need to hear. Into the world's tomorrow. You know? I think, generally, people are afraid other people are gonna be turned, because they're smart. They they won't. Right. But you let him talk, and now some some poor guy's gonna suddenly sell his house and buy a camper.

I like people who don't believe in Jesus and all, but are willing to but are willing to dive in and say, you know what? All this stuff I didn't believe in does make complete sense, and the world will end tomorrow. Yeah. Especially with a needle through a thread through scripture to try to make this thing the end of the world. You know I'm saying? You're like, you know, all these things are just too much of a coincidence for me. This has gotta be the end times. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was probably one of the major we also did we did a broadcast live from a a life event, and we there were there were a couple there were a couple bad reactions to that. But for the most part, actually, we don't people generally leave us alone. You know, here's the thing. It's like most people would think, you know, we generally get positive reactions.

But the truth is we generally get no reactions. Yeah. You know what saying? Generally, we're just not noticed or taken seriously at all. And every once in a while, some fly by night wingnut will show up and and try to stick a claim like we're making a bigger imprint than we are. So if you wanted to make an argument for a bit, like, even that that secularism guy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, you attacking people that have, you know, I don't know, 500 YouTube subscribers. You know, there's way bigger fish to fry if you wanna try to try to get to the heart of the matter and have an honest debate through a countrywide platform. I mean, you gotta know that you're swinging at low hanging fruit here, bro. You know? I just I feel like you just found something you thought you could beat up on and then took a couple shots and left. You know? Yeah. That's true.

Okay. Alright. Well, anyway, trip down YouTube lane. Oh, yeah. So here was oh, did I find this? Yeah. Here, found the link. Alright. So yeah. Hold on. It's coming. This so the interview was called, my Larry Nassar testimony went viral, but there's more to the gospel than forgiveness. Former gymnast Rachel Denhollander, spent years discovering God's perspective on sexual abuse, then her advocate's

advocacy for survivors cost her her church. So here's the we talked about the basic setup. Right? So she was she was one she had testified in the Larry Nassar trial who he has been convicted of sexual abuse through, I mean, dozens of girls. I think it's like 200. Maybe hundreds of Yeah. Insane. Gymnasts, because he worked for the USA Gymnastics.

And so I'm I'll read through some of these questions, because I I just thought she did a a fantastic job responding to something very difficult to deal with. And so it says, you were first abused by Larry Nassar in 2000. It took eighteen years for him to be convicted of sexually abusing girls. What are the past two decades been like for your faith? She says, in the beginning, I wrestled with God's perspective on abuse, where he was, why he didn't do anything, and whether or not I was guilty or stained by it. I worked to get to a place where I could trust in his justice and call evil what it was because God is good and holy.

One of the areas where Christians don't do well is at acknowledging the devastation of the wound. We tend to gloss over the devastation of any kind of suffering, but especially sexual assault. With Christian platitudes like God works all things together for good or God is sovereign. I can't imagine that is going on. But I I would I I suppose it is. I suppose we are saying that. Those are very good and glorious biblical truths, but when they are misapplied in a way to dampen the horror of evil, they ultimately dampen the goodness of God. Goodness and darkness exist as opposites. If we pretend that the darkness isn't dark, it dampens the beauty of the light. It said, do you remember reaching a point where you doubted God's goodness? My biggest struggle was understanding God's perspective on sexual abuse. Ultimately, a conclusion I really had to come to myself through a lot of wrestling, a lot of tears, and a lot of studying.

It says, in your impact statement, you say, my advocacy for sexual assault victims cost me my church. Can you share about when you decided to share with your church that you were going to speak up about this and what happened? She says, the reason I lost my church was not specifically because I spoke up. It was because we were advocating for other victims of sexual assault within the evangelical community, crimes which have been perpetuated by people in the church and whose abuse had been enabled very clearly by prominent leaders in the evangelical community. That is not a message that evangelical leaders want to hear because it would cost to speak out about the community. It would cost to take a stand against these very prominent leaders despite the fact that the situation we were dealing with is widely recognized as one of the worst, if not the worst instances of evangelical cover up of sexual abuse. Because I had taken that position and because we were not in agreement with our church's support of this organization

and these leaders, it cost us dearly. When I did come forward as an abuse victim, this part of my past was wielded like a weapon by some of the elders to further discredit my concern, essentially saying that I was imposing my own perspective or that my judgment was too clouded. One of them accused me of sitting around reading angry blog posts all day, which is not the way I do my research. That's never been the way I do research. But my status as a victim was used against my advocacy. So

well, here so specifically, it was the Sovereign Grace Ministry scandal. Dan, do you know anything about that, CJM? I don't. That's what I was trying to figure out when you were reading that. It's like, well, what? Who what? Yeah. I don't know the details. It was And they're they covered up within the Christian community sexual assault that was going on.

Yeah. So I think I feel like we talked about this. It was about oh, god. Oh, I've read shoot. I can't I can't keep reading articles. CJ Mahaney was the president of SGM, Sovereign Grace Ministries,

and I think that's where that's where the accusations were. I mean, it seems they were largely true. And so and this church was a supporter of the Sovereign Grace Ministries. So why would you defend that? I I don't know. I so do do you think the general thought, though

so here's the thing is that I I know why you defend it. Right? It ties into what we were talking about a little bit before the show started. Right? It's like sometimes people tend to to elevate the church as an organization above that of of following Jesus Christ. Like, we gotta protect this community and its

reputation before we're worried about we talked about this when that when a couple weeks ago with that guy and the who had

had sexual sexual misconduct with somebody in his youth group, and he and and then he finally revealed it at on a sermon or whatever. Yeah. And there was the stand up clause thing. Yeah. And so but that's what we talked about. It's like, why would anybody cover that up? It's not best for the victim. It's not best for him. It's not best for his family. It's not best for his church. It's best to just address it and let it be terrible and horrible and let it sit in darkness where it belonged and then let light redeem it. And instead, they just they they stored it in darkness and left it there because they're trying to protect the church's image and the and the guy's future because he was a charismatic dude. He's a great speaker. You know, he's a and and as far as you can tell, he delivers the word well. But, I mean, at the end of the day, it's just like the the dude we were talk we had a lot of conversation before the show. I'm sorry to get you caught up. But, like like, you know, people people that are that are showing up and confessing

huge sins and be like, hey, man. Look. You're not trying to follow Jesus at all here. Right? Like, you just show up here for the community and whatever and get some friends and and some support and, like, that's what the church does. We offer support and love as a community of people that all believe the same thing. But you're ignoring the part where we say we all believe the same thing. We all agreed to be followers of Jesus Christ and, like, it has to be it has to be the footing has to be in that. And so, like, it can't be all community and all love and then nobody going, hey. Look. We're supposed to be following Jesus. What's going on at your place? What are you doing? You know? And so, like, I could see how they defend that. They're they're they're more concerned with their community than they are on the following Jesus part of it.

Dan Dan shrugs his shoulders. He says, no. I'm agreeing with that. I'm just it's it's just it makes me a little bit wanna vomit. I mean Yeah. Right? You know, it's like Yes. So here's here's what she and this is where it keeps getting interesting. She said, after you had confronted church leaders and you decided that you were going public with your own abuse, you realized that your church would never take this seriously? And she said, that's exactly right. When you support an organization that has been embroiled in a horrific thirty year cover up of sexual assault, you know what that communicates to the world and what it communicates to other enablers and abusers within your own church. It's very obvious that they are not going to speak out against sexual assault when it's in their own community. So that leaves me with the question. What happened when what happens when it's a trusted person at this church? What happens when it's a trusted person in these other evangelical organizations? The extent that one is willing to speak out against their own community is the bright line test for how much they care and how much they understand.

We have failed abhorrently as Christians when it comes to that test. We are very happy to use sexual assault as a convenient whipping block when it's outside our community. When the Penn State scandal broke, prominent evangelical leaders were very, very quick to call for accountability, call for change. But when it was within their own community, the immediate response was to vilify the victims or to say things that were at times blatantly and demonstrably untrue about the organization and the leader of the organization. There was complete refusal to engage with the evidence. It did not even matter. The ultimate real reality that I live with is that my if my abuser had been Nathaniel Morales instead of Larry Nassar, if my enabler had been a CGM pastor instead of a gymnastics coach, the organization I was speaking out against was Sovereign Grace under the leadership of Mahaney instead of MSU under the leadership of LuAnna Simon, I would not only I would not only not have evangelical support, I would be actively vilified and lied about by every single evangelical leader out there. That seems too far. But I think the broad point is is that you're not finding is the church rallies the wagons quickly, or at least her experience is that,

to protect to suppose to attempt to protect the good name of the church. Well, you know, and here's the thing, is I could see I could see people thinking that they

are worried about the reflection on because the people of the church are messy, that it would reflect poorly on God. Right? And and I I could see people trying to justify that in their mind being like, hey. This is nor this is our community that follows Jesus, and some guy went off the rails and did something terrible, or some lady went off the rails and did something terrible. We can't have everybody who is not a believer thinking this is what God people do. Right. And so they try to hide it and act the sin house, we don't That's right. Because because God because God's name is to be protected. You know? And, like, that's foolish. Right? God can protect his own name. We will deal with with sin the way that God says to deal with sin because that's what God said specifically to do. And so I I could see how people get fooled into thinking that is the right course of action.

But even giving that even giving him those points of contention and saying, I could see how you got there, I still can't I mean, I can't support any of it, all of it. She's right. It's a it's abhorrent. It's terrible. That is not the way that God's people live. We should be the first ones throwing flags up going, that guy did this. Did you see what happened to people? I mean, look at look God's original the the Israelites. Right? Like, if you you did certain things, they just got you're just gone. You're just out. Right. We you're not even even Paul says that. Like, listen. If you're gonna act this way, you're gonna leave. We're you're not gonna taint this whole group of people with the way that you're acting. And and and, you know, I I struggle a bit, I don't know, with this is that, sometimes our line on

on sin is soft. Like, and and it doesn't cheapen the grace that we've been given, but I don't think people realize the full impact. I think that's true of myself as well, you know, because I've always known,

that my sin is forgiven, which never actually made me contemplate the weight of it. You know? I've always known that it's it's gonna be forgiven because Christ died for my sins. Right? And, like, we always open with that when we talk to people about about following Christ. But, like, we never quite get the point without going too crazy Calvinist heavy with it. Right? Like, that you are just you you really deserve death. I know you we gloss over this. Right? But, like, the punishment for that sin is death, and you've been saved out of death, not just saved because God is smiling and happy. Like, he paid an honest, heavy penalty that no one else could have paid, and, like, we we just kinda

gloss over that with this happy thing, you know, and I don't know. You don't wanna beat them. I don't you know you know what I'm saying? Like, it's you you don't you don't want people to miss the weight of the of the gift that they've been given, but, you know, no one likes getting beat over the head either, so we usually go with the soft shoe. You know? And I think her description of it was was good. Right? Like, if you don't understand like, we cannot gloss over the the the the deepness of the dark

because then we miss to the the extent that we've that grace has been given. Right? Like, if we don't understand or believe how much that we have been saved from. And I suppose, guess, also to your point, recognize that there are there are consequences to that evil that is that you've brought and perpetuated out into the world, and those still must be dealt with. And so, you're you're right. I just I I I think that is the deceit, is that we are somehow protecting God's name or what other people may think of with the image of God as portrayed by the church. But, like, if the image of God portrayed by the church is one of dishonesty,

is one of we cover we sweep things under the rug and don't deal with them boldly and honestly, then we are projecting the wrong image of God anyway. Yeah. I mean, that that's what everybody does in other areas of life. If your star football player rapes someone, you kind of excuse it. Well, he couldn't help it. You know? Give him another chance. If if the opponent's team star football player rapes someone, you want him in jail.

You know? You want him taken down. He's terrible. But if he's on your team, you know, you give him a little more grace. Right. If it's your political party that has someone, you know, doing something crummy, you you know, they're just being really good at what they do. You know? And if it's the opponent, the other team, other political party, you wanna take them down and put them in jail. Yep. And in the church, we should be above that. Yeah. Oh, man. Be way beyond that. Right? God's way is above our ways. Like, if you get if you get busted doing this stuff, like, there is still grace for you through through the death of Jesus Christ, but there's also consequences and penalties here. Guess what? Yeah. Guess what? My team's really screwed up, and we're gonna purify this thing, and we gotta we gotta purge it of the evil

and as far as leadership goes That's right. And and restore them and and, you know but like you said, but not let them be in leadership. I'm not trying to, you know, protect the name.

I I mean, that's just ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, I get it, but it's ridiculous. That's right. That's right. You could you could see how someone got there, but you just you hate every bit of it. Like, you can't you can't get there that way. It is detestable. It reminds me of the time when when Jesus was walking by the temple and the money changers were there, and and he and and he kinda just kept walking. No. He turned the freaking tables over. Okay. See, there's a silence there. I'm like I don't know where you're going with this. I know Dan knows his bible. That's not what happened. What happened? I forgot I totally forgot what happened. Dan's gonna drop something way cool on me, and I'm gonna learn something today. So what what I had in my mind was is, like, maybe I'd forgotten a verse where he walks by and then comes back around.

I thought, well, I don't wanna stick my foot in my mouth. I'm gonna wait it out. It it it doesn't make sense. Right. You know, here here's where I thought because I haven't read this article, and here's where I thought that she was gonna go. And, actually, I I feel like I would be just as guilty of this is, like, with that darkness thing where we don't let the you know, let that those acts prove themselves out to be darkness. Right? When some when people come with very heavy things or especially if they've been sinned against, boy, the I mean, mean, it's quick out of my mouth where I'm like, look. You know, we got we've got to get to a place where you can start to heal,

and and you can't do that carrying around the burden of hatred for them. So we've got to get to a forgiveness place. Right? But, like, I still think that's true, but, boy, I think I might grab that gun too fast. You know what I'm saying? I might be shooting that advice out way too fast. Like, that's a real hurt. And when you start glossing over, it'd be like, gotta forgive that guy. You know? You know? I I think I've been guilty of that, and and, boy, that that might really help me to see something a little bit differently. Well, empathy maybe goes a long ways. Yeah. So she continues I thought there was another thing that she spoke of here. Hold on just a second. It says, why are we capable of seeing evil in other communities, but not our own? Which speaks to what we were just talking Yeah. Says one of the dynamics that you see in a Christian church that is particularly devastating is poor theology. Okay. I agree. The reason that most institutional cover ups happen in the church is not simple institutional protectionism.

When you're dealing with someone like MSU or USA Gymnastics, they've got medals and money in their institutional reputation on the line. You have that dynamic with evangelical churches where you have the reputation on the line and the perceived reputation of the gospel of Christ. Okay? But often, if not always, people are motivated by poor theology and a poor understanding of grace and repentance and that causes them to handle sexual assault in a way where there are a lot of predators go unchecked often for decades. When you see a theological commitment to handling sexual assault inappropriately,

you have the least hope of ever changing it. It's devastating enough when money and metals are put up against sexual assault victims. But when the gospel of Christ is wielded like a weapon against sexual assault victims, that's that's wicked. There's no other way to say it. So so what I what I miss here, what where how is the gospel I mean, what what what

what's the complaint against the church? I mean, other than the the cover up stuff. I mean, like Yeah. So I think I think the point is is that the church is not a

people cannot get over sexual assault for, I think, a combination they can't go to the church for that for the combination of some of the things that we've been talking about. I think the allegation is and I don't I don't don't think this is malfeasance. I think this part is just blindness, is that it's the call to

not not work through the actual hurt that was there. You just need to forgive or kind of the things she said earlier that this is all God is sovereign and this all works out for good. But well, actually, so and and being called using God's call to forgive as a weapon

against survivors, which is how the next question is worded. So I think I think that's the I think that's the core of it. You just need to move on. You just need to move on. Yeah. Which may I think her her her thing is that that makes the church ineffective at dealing with specifically sexual abuse victims, but I think the implication is much broader than that, is because we are we're just we're just gliding over things. Yeah. Let's just move on. We've we've done the forgiveness. That guy's done the repentance. Let's just kinda cast over this thing and keep on a rocking without actually taking the time to to deal with the circumstances as they sit. Well, I mean and and that's I mean, that's gonna be true with just about everything that we try to handle with a program or a you know, like, there's just certain things people need to walk through with a friend or someone that one person that loves them, and they can walk through it together. Right? Like,

it just you know? Like, we try to manage it from an administration point of view, right, without, you know, calling big wins, big losses, and say, okay. Where can we mitigate and move and then keep things running? You know, when that person, you know, individually I don't know that you're gonna be able to I don't know. I just think you gotta do that on a on a one to one ratio. Know? So maybe that's unfair,

actually, to a to a certain extent, and this is this is this actually does bother me when this happens, is people people lob things against the church as a whole, but the church is made up of of folk. Like, there's it's made up of people. And, like, often when people are are critiquing or they're upset about I was listening to a podcast and people are, like, upset. They're like, hey, you know, the the church does this and blah blah blah, and, like, you know, people aren't friendly and something or other. I'm like, you are part of the church. So, like, if it's not if you're do that. Go ahead. Like, fix it. If that's the thing.

And so to to that, as if it's true then that this is more something that you're going through on a on a much smaller level, don't what the corporate church is gonna do here, unless it's specifically aimed at probably a pastor somewhere, then it's probably not fair to hold the whole, like, the church body as a whole kind of accountable for this. I'm I'm trying to, you know, put this through the filter of, okay. Let's say a woman comes to me and says, I was sexually molested by,

you know, ex big name coach over a number of years. What's my response? Yeah. Like, that that's a pile

to put it. You know, like, I'm not equipped to help her emotionally heal. I will I would address, you know, forgiveness and let's move on. I would I would address, let's get you a professional counselor. We'll help you if you need that. Yeah. I would address,

you know, let's get this reported. You know, we gotta put an end to this. We gotta stop this from happening. I don't know. Is that kind of what she's looking for? I mean, she feels let down, so what what's she want? Because I think that that's just there's a lot of people out there who've been molested. I really honestly, I wanna know, like, how do we help them?

Yeah. Let's see let's see let's see if the next question helps. It says, given your concerns that Christians can use God's call to forgive as a weapon against survivors, did you feel at all apprehensive telling Nasser that you forgive him? I did to an extent, because forgiveness can really be misapplied. Taken within the context of my statement, with the call for justice and with what I have done to couple forgiveness and justice, it should not be misunderstood.

But I found it very interesting, to be honest, that every single Christian publication or speaker that has mentioned my statement has only ever focused on the aspect of forgiveness. Very few, if any of them, have recognized what else came with that statement which was a swift and intentional pursuit of God's justice. Both of those are biblical concepts. Both of those represent Christ. We do not do well when we focus on only one of them. You been Too bad about that. Trying to think if there's anything else here. Let's see what her final statement is. Anything else you wanna read us to know? First, gospel of Jesus Christ does not need your protection. It defies the gospel of Christ when we do not call out abuse and enable abuse in our own church. So there are there's there's what she wants, number one. Yep. Jesus Christ

does not need your protection. He needs your obedience. Obedience means that you pursue justice and you stand up for the oppressed and you stand up for the victimized and you tell the truth about the evil of sexual assault and the evil of covering it up. Second, that obedience costs. It means that you will have to speak out against your own community. It will cost to stand up for the oppressed and it should. If we're not speaking out when it costs, then it doesn't matter to us enough. So I think that's the core critique against the church. Yeah. Well, and and to be fair, like, I mean, she might be taking in her portion of the church and being very upset about their handling things. I don't know that that's

I mean, obviously, there's been some scandals within the Catholic denomination of church. I think all denominations have had a had a bout of this in one way or another, but, like, most people I know will not stand for this for two seconds. Most most Christians that I know just will not

put up with this. And so I don't know whether it's they're just looking at the top layer and and then saying this is a sample, but it's a, reflective of the whole. But, like, I've I've met the whole. I don't know the whole would put up with that. I I don't know. And maybe that's what's tough is

is everybody digest shoot. Now I'm gonna find myself, like, partially agreeing with the older she was upset with. But, like, everyone obviously does digest the the world through their own lens. Right? Mhmm. And so I look out and say, I just I've not seen this. I've I've not seeing this where the church is sweeping things under the rug. I'm not seeing this where there's, like, people abusive people in power positions. But it doesn't mean that it's that it's not happening. And so I think excuse me. I think the cup coupled concept is is that, like, I think we have to recognize that I am I have a limited perspective of the world. I'm I only can see things through my lens. I need to recognize that that there is there are situations happening

outside of what is normal to me that are normal in other places or, like, at least more pervasive. And I think you would ask the same. Right? Like, you can't look back at the entire church body and say, this is a this is a pervasive thing through Christianity. Although, I think the temptation to cover things up and deal with them in house in the protection of

of the image of God or or the gospel, I think, is a risk the entire church does run. How often people are crossing lines to to do that, I I would be more hesitant to speak on. But, I mean, it's certainly I think we have to be be careful of as we we do a lot to kind of share and and try to to protect or or discuss who Jesus is and and the church is the representative of that. And so, like, there's an inclination to keep those types of things to burnish that image. And so I I think we can recognize it, but I think maybe that's the risk, right, is is recognizing that certain things are true,

even if they feel abnormal, and and not dismissing them simply because I don't recognize or I don't see it very often. Well, and I think our reaction is very much the reaction of of, say, like, a husband that's cheated on his wife in the past, right, that's repented and is and is is trying to make this marriage come back and work, that man has to work three times as hard, a million times as hard, as a husband who has not cheated on his wife and gaining trust back. Right? And so that means, like, he don't erase his text messages. He don't erase his Internet history. He calls way more than he should, announcing where he's at, enables GPS on his phone, whatever. He goes through the whole shebang to show his wife,

you know, that that he is to be trusted. And, like, if that's what's being asked of us as a church body, great. Fine. We're in charge. We can do that. Yeah. What what do you wanna know? I mean, there shouldn't be one part of the church body that goes, what what can I show you on a consistent and and continual basis that will let you know that we're that we're we're trying to be as faithful as humanly possible to God's calling on our church body? And, like, we can't be upset about that. We can't be mad that people we think people are digging into places they don't belong. I mean,

your your your walk with Christ should be a fairly open book, you know, on especially the way that the church is running. Maybe your personal sin stuff you wanna deal with on a individual basis to some fellas. Yeah. But, like, on the whole, I mean, what's the church got to hide? We shouldn't have much at all. You know? Yeah. I agree. Okay. Anyway, that was it for our article.

We'll cover that Loftus article next week, I think, or whenever he posts a second one, maybe we'll kinda go through it. I hate to here's the deal. I thought, hey, man. I kinda like talking about it, but, like, he's where was he at? Zimbabwe or something? Yeah. And you gotta wake him up at 4AM or something. I feel real bad about that. He's a cool dude to talk to, though. Alright. Very knowledgeable. What do you got over there, Mike? Alright. Ready? Dear life from the path. I am a 64 year old woman divorced for twenty seven years. A nice guy, I'll call Ronnie, has taken me out to lunch and dinner several times. He really likes me, and I really like him. But I'm skeptical skeptical about getting to a serious relationship because I don't feel like doing a lot of the wife duties anymore, such as cooking. I know this may sound terrible, but I don't cook. My kitchen stays clean, and all I have to do is sweep the floor.

Ronnie hasn't said anything about my not wanting to cook, but I don't want it to come up later as a problem. What should I do? I say, I don't cook, brother. Yeah. Is that a deal? This comes with the package. Yeah. He says Or it doesn't. You know what? It's not a deal. Or you know what? It's a deal breaker. I mean, you might as well just jump in on this thing. I mean, Ronnie has taken you out to lunch and dinner several times. I think he's getting the gist of it. He seems to be willing to pay. Yeah. He says, let's go out to lunch or dinner. I don't see you cooking. I'm hungry. Let's go. Although, I mean, I would shade you away maybe from making a commitment to Ronnie when you feel like the fact that you don't like to cook is a deal breaker.

And you just gonna you you're you're basically considering not being in a relationship with Ronnie because you don't like to cook. And you looked at this one obstacle and thought, Ronnie ain't worth going through this. I ain't gonna bring it up. We ain't gonna talk about it. Me and Ronnie gonna part ways. You know, maybe you don't like Ronnie as much as you think. You know? Well, I'm gonna say, you know, both of you are in your sixties. You're both pretty well set in your ways. So you're both gonna have those kinda weird things. Mhmm. You know? May maybe he carries a pair of pliers in his back pocket, and he just isn't gonna stop. Yeah. Exactly. Whatever. I mean, whatever it is.

You're just both gonna have stuff. And and and, hopefully, you're both mature enough at that age to kinda figure that out and go with it. Yeah. But, yeah, be upfront about it. Yeah. Those pliers in your pocket, Ronnie. Not in the bed. Shut up, Betty. Go sweep the floor. Yeah. I love my pliers. I know I mean, it does it does really ruin the romance of, you know, hey, baby. I'd do anything for you except for sweep the floor. Don't like your toast. I don't like crumbs. I don't cook. I mean, I get it. I mean, it's it's do you do everything else with vigor and passion? Or I mean, do you just despise cooking or you're not good at it? Or I mean, because it's just it's it's like a task like anything else. You know what I'm saying? It's like taking out of the garbage or cleaning the windows. It's just a thing that you do. I I'm not saying you don't have to be a passionate risotto cook or something. You know? But, like, putting toast in a toaster or scrambling some eggs, it takes the same amount of time and effort as it does to sweep the floor. I mean, I do find it a little bit unreasonable, to be honest with you.

I find it unreasonable to, like, not cook at all. Like, is that am I getting the wrong implication? I mean, just she does not cook or just hates it? I it doesn't really say. It just says she does not cook. But does that mean that you just eat raw food all the time? Yeah. I think she's exaggerating. Like, I just she just doesn't wanna get into cooking big meals all the time. Okay. Yeah. Like, as a whole, I usually just go out. You know? And I think that's her thing. Yeah. I mean, either you eating raw food or you going out to eat all the time. Either one, I'd like to know what job you have, because I feel like that's big money. Yeah. I gotta rein that in. I can't even pull it off once a month. Hey, man. They're hey. Speaking of big money, the ParaMedals is running $10 at a Cajun Cajun buffet every Tuesday this month just in case you guys wanna go. I'm in. $10 a a $10 a head? $10 a head. I like the Cajun, and I like the food. That's what I'm saying. Dan yeah. And I got $10. Thanks, fellas. That's a discount. Airsecular says, healthy relationships are based on honest communication.

Talk to Ronnie about your concerns. You may be pleasantly surprised to find out that he likes to cook and would be willing to do to would be willing to do it. Will you relate? I mean, that's a real stab in the dark. Know what I'm saying? Like, you offered the only possible solution that would be perfect for this thing. Hey. I I just I just, couple days ago, bought me a quarter cow. Never did that before. Mhmm. Speaking of cooking, and it's fantastic. Oh, I bet. Just ground beef. Yeah. But I've I I I kept I thought, okay. This I'm making this up. And I looked over at Cheryl. I said, is this as good to you as it is to me? She goes, it is amazing.

No hormones. All you know, just just some dude with a cow, you know, and and we we're eating it. It's good. Awesome. That's fantastic. I think that's the way to I mean, it's hard It is. It's hard to budget for. Right? Because it's a stiff it's a stiff right off the bat. But you know yeah. But you that's gonna save me a ton of money because we we usually just don't have food laying around, so then we go out to eat. Yeah. So right. And we spend $40. I'm like, man, why are doing this for? I could have bought a quarter cow. Exactly. Do that 10 times. Secular continues. Some men enjoy it so so much it's hard to pull them away. Boy. Especially from a barbecue grill. Cross your fingers, speak up, and hope Ronnie is one of them. Yeah. Boy, you've really just picked the only solution that would work out fantastically. Yeah.

Let's see. Okay. Here we go. Dear life from the path, I've been married to my husband for sixteen years. His brother died suddenly, and he was devastated. We dropped everything and drove a thousand miles to attend the funeral. When we arrived and went to be seated, he asked me to sit four rows back because the front row was for immediate family only. Oh, man. Jeez. I think that happens. It does. I felt I was immediate family but didn't want to cause a scene, so so I did as he asked. When I sat down, I received odd looks and sad looks. I'm not angry, but my feelings are hurt. Am I wrong?

I mean, I don't know. How big is this place? I mean, if it's like a super small funeral home, like in the backwoods of somebody's small town Yeah. I mean, maybe you gotta move to the back. I don't know. I mean, are we really doling out honor and shame at the funeral seating? Yeah. I mean so there are things at funerals. Right? Like, you're if you're actively participating,

people that are gonna carry the thing maybe are in front or Gotta get up and speak or something. Yeah. But, like, if that's not the deal, I can't imagine I would agree to be have my wife and family not sit with me at the funeral. It's odd. Here's the deal. People do weird things when they grieve, things that don't make sense, things they look back at and go, why did I do that? Oh, yeah. You know? And that could be part of it. It could be part of the tradition of that particular region, of how they do family. It could be that family's tradition. How long have they been married? I've been married to my husband. Sixteen years. Yeah. So so, like, this sniffs, like like, either what Dan's saying, like a like a a grief move where your brain's it's just not engaging with the world the correct way. It's my brother. You know? Or it feels like a it feels like a like a newlywed problem. You know what saying? Because, like, after after sixteen years of marriage, I mean, man, me and my wife are about that close. If I was to sit up front and my wife had to sit a couple rows back, we would never even discuss it. It would just be like, hey. That's fine. I know you love me. There's other stuff going on right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not about us. This funeral is not about us and our marriage. It's about my brother and and and me, you know, mourning this loss or whatever, and I feel like she'd have a lot of grace for that. And so I don't know. It feels like a like a a newlywed wife thing to be spurned by it. I I can think of almost everybody

no. I'm saying this totally wrong. Almost all evangelical. Oh, they're all covering it up. It's not dead. No. I can think of multiple times I have done things that later on I thought that was the dumbest thing. You know? Like, why did I mean, and that was so important for me at the time. I don't know why. I I had my mom in an open casket because nobody does that anymore, and she would want that.

Nobody wanted it. My kids have nightmares to this day. Well, not really, but they're like, why did you do that? I don't know. I just I don't know. I I just insisted. I felt very strongly about it. I did. I did. If you were in the place, I'm going, here's the deal. I want it to be open casket. They're like, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. My brother dude looked at me like, really? That's the one thing you're standing on? Yep. That's what I want. That's me. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know.

I had a staff member passed away. We're in the hospital. Another staff member's there. I look over him. I mean, the the dude's body's not room temperature yet. I'm like, you know, he never liked you. I'm like I mean, it was true,

but I'm like, why would I tell him that? Well, awesome. It was almost like I've now I feel free to tell you this now. That's right. How about you not say that? You know? How about you guys shut because he's not here. You know he wanted you fired a long time ago, and I fought for you. He just really does not like you at all. It's like, ew, idiot. This is how I grieve. I hurt people. I can't stay away from damn. Know. I stand like a jerk.

And I didn't even mean it like a jerk. Was just like, I just feel like I should be honest at this point. Yeah. Now that we're getting everything out. Yeah. It's like, ugh. And I hate that haircut. It's stupid. By the way Throw those glasses away. Yeah. Those those pants are too tight. Oh. Yeah. I think It's just grief. Grief does weird things. Yeah. I think I'm gonna side with Dan on this. It might just be a weird grief thing. I mean, you're just not taking in the world right at the time. You know? Yeah.

Let's see what Secular says. Secular says, if the spouses of your husband's other siblings and children, if there were any, were also asked to sit elsewhere, then you should not feel hurt. However, if you were the only one told to sit in Siberia, your feelings are justified. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I suppose It's honest. I mean, mean but the question is, do you really need to invest in it? Like, let's say all that's true. Like, is it worth is it worth your time? Right. Right. Let it go. Let her go. Alright. Wanna do one more? Yep. Last one. Okay. Let's see. I got more stories.

I just wanna make sure. I got quarter cow and death insult. Got the trifecta here. What's next? Okay. I'm I'm gonna let you pick one. The the two options are a bride's second wedding wedding

bride's second wedding plans complicate shower etiquette, or dad dating younger woman is hard to be around. Dad dating your woman. That just sounds intriguing. Here we go. I have no stories. Dear life from the past. My name is Dan. Dear life from the past. I have never had a good relationship with my father. He was extremely abusive and controlling when I was growing up. Regardless, I have tried to maintain a relationship with him, albeit a superficial one now that I'm an adult.

For the past few years, dad has been seeing a woman my age. I've tried to my best to maintain a relationship with her as well. Problem is they are extremely touchy feely when they're together Oh, man. And it makes me very uncomfortable. No doubt. For example, they're always rubbing each other, hanging on each other, or she sits on his lap when we're out for drinks. I tried to talk to my father about it, he became extremely angry when I asked if they could keep it to a minimum around me. Moreover, they recently let it slip they started dating before she was 18. Oh. I don't feel comfortable with their relationship at all. Am I wrong to feel this way? No. No. Not at all. Next. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's to justify. To solve this problem right now. Go on. The guy's the guy's demented. I'm glad that you didn't ask what should I do now? Because I, you know, I don't know. But are you wrong to feel this way? No. We can answer that one. But I mean, he became, hey. Can you keep your PDA to a minimum? And he was outraged.

Yeah. That's unreasonable in any circumstance. There's no reason to be outraged. It's the same it's the same old story of everything in in human behavior. Right? Like, pride is just a beast. Right? If you can't take that message from your daughter well, that, like, she even if if you feel like she's overly sensitive or she has no right to feel uncomfortable, if your daughter comes up to you and says, look, dad, this thing that you're doing makes me uncomfortable,

you go, okay. I'm glad you told me. I'm gonna try to address it. I'm a figure something out, right? Sorry. I didn't wanna make you feel uncomfortable. Like, any dad would take it in that way, except for this dude. He not gonna take it in that way. But pride does this all the time. No one could take a critique and go, you know, maybe I should humble myself and go, man, I am causing trouble, or I am doing the wrong thing. Or I could see from your perspective, oh, this is really weird. But, no, this dude, he shovels right ahead like you got the problem.

He was abusive. He was abusive. I'm guessing he's still abusive. Yeah. And now he has a girl he's controlling. Yeah. He you should work hard to get her out of that relationship. Yeah. Or, I mean, stop going out Greeks with him. Yeah.

I mean, that's weird. Time to move on. Yeah. That's it? Yeah. Hey, Sasha. You wanna hit up drinks? No, man. No. You're abusive. And you do too much PDA, and you don't seem to stop I mean, let's just be honest about this thing.

No. That's true. Sometimes we try to soft shoe around things that should be pretty straightforward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're yeah. You're plotting and planning on how to play the situation. The situation is fairly easy. Dad, I need you to knock that off. Your outrage at the matter means I ain't going out to drinks with you because I there's nothing binds me. We do not have a close relationship. At the board, you're abusive to me when I was younger, and this relationship was weird. And so I refused to go out with you. Yeah. That's true. What are you getting from this phoned in relationship with your old man anyway? You know? Like, I get it. You know, they're part of your family. You feel like you gotta keep something up. But, I mean, after a while, choices are choices. You're taking his. He doesn't love you. Like, I I don't No. Yeah. This doesn't this doesn't have to keep Yeah. You know what? Tell him tell him how you feel and be like, here's the thing, blah blah blah blah. And if he ain't willing to move and say, like, look. These are your choices, but I'm I I you know, I'm not gonna be subject to it, so out I go. Yeah. Yep. Secular says, the question was, am I wrong to feel this way? Secular says, I don't think so. Your feelings are your feelings, and you are entitled to them. But because but because being around your father and this young lady makes you uncomfortable,

consider seeing him one on one apart from her if he can manage to separate from her for a half hour or an hour. Yeah. I don't think that's the point. Yeah. The point is I I don't even think him and the and the lady are the point. The point is the man, he he acts poorly. Right? And and she's like, I don't like the way that you act. PDAs are obviously for especially in a dad and an extremely younger woman are there for everyone else's benefit. And it's just yeah. Oh, maybe you should man, I don't wanna say cut ties with your old man, but, like, I don't know. I don't know that you have to give that relationship more weight than it actually can hold. It can't hold more weight than that. He's not in.

Yep. Alright. You've been listening live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us on this lovely Monday evening. Next week, hopefully, maybe we can connect with Vanessa

and and talk about her about her movie. And in the meantime, let's hope that mister Loftus publishes article too, and we'll catch up with that. But that's our plan. We'll be seeing you next weekend next week? Yeah. Monday. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, in the meantime, be faithful means god will hand to the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.