Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the Pathway Studios in Youngstown proper. Yep. Definitely.

It's good to be with you. I practiced that the opening. I was strong. Yeah. What do mean? Which which part of it? When I said, yep, definitely. I thought, how am I gonna contribute to this opening to really give it a whiz bang? And I thought, you should say, yep, definitely. Hey. Yeah. That did it. That did it. Did it. Certainly did. Hey. Okay. Here's what got going on the show tonight. Here's what I think is happening on the show tonight. So I had… I've… I'm… I have some Pope style. Okay. I have some Pope style advice. People be on my lawn, and I… And I've mistaken me for the Pope. So I've I've got some Pope style advice, and it has to do with, it has to do with listening.

And so I'll I'll… Listening listening carefully… Okay. I'll I'll I'll talk about it when I get there, but that's it. Both thalavaziran listening carefully. We we also… And I… Mike Mike and Dan, you guys help me make sure I frame this correctly, but I was… We were talking just before the show started, and, it it had to do with, I think, some some of the things that we are noticing with with folks,

with their expectations about their relationship with God, specifically kinda how God interacts with them. And I think it brought up the question, is is there… The phrase, it's not a religion, it's a relationship.

Are are the risks associated with how we otherwise think about or define relationship that otherwise produce expectations for folks with how they interact with God that that that aren't aren't necessarily true or biblically true or or probably are the wrong expectation. So that's the question that we wanna answer. It's not intended to to necessarily like pick on the phrase, it's not a religion, it's a relationship. But like, I I do wonder if that, if there are… That is contributing

to to some of the things that were… That I guess that I've seen and it sounds like consistently we've seen with people and faith and, times where they get frustrated. And so I'll I'll give some examples when we get there, but we wanna try to answer that question. Yeah. What what else? Did you did you guys have anything else? I can't remember. I had some, I had some, dear life from the past. Okay. We… Yeah. Hey, man. The the Internet has been squandering. I mean, they've been been wandering the grounds with no help. I… Here's here's what I think. I I I mean, I'm… I probably run into 50, a 100 people a day. Right? And I… Every time I talk to them, I notice that if they were just take my advice, their life would be better. And so I thought I would better loss. Yeah. We've let this go for way too long. We need we need to really spice this back up and get some advice out there because people are… I mean, they're drowning. They're drowning, Ben. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Alright. So, anyway, that's what we got going on the show tonight. I… We're excited for. So maybe let's let's start out with let's start out with that second thing. The… It's not a religion, it's a relationship. So here's here's what I've…

The things that I've seen multiple times, I'll put it that way, is people that are they have a relationship with Jesus. They are, shoot over it. I already used the word. Nope. Give it away. They have a, well, they're in the church. They're they're doing things otherwise, say that's a Christian right there. Yeah. Okay? That works. I spotted him. So,

and then after there's a… And they tend to be highly motivated people and they tend to to have this kind of clear direction, of how things are supposed to go in their lives. And then something happens. It's either like a a negative event or things don't tend to go how they expected. And then the conversation generally centers around, God, stop listening. I kept talking. God, stop listening. I kept not hearing anything back. And so

that's kind of the gist of the setup. And then as that goes, they took… From their perspective, they talk and talk and talk. God just doesn't respond. And feeling is that either God's not real or He's abandoned them. Either way, this isn't a relationship that seems appropriate to be in or that I wanna be in anymore. And then they generally don't throw in the towel, but it's just kind of a slow walk away. Yeah. It's a slow burning candle. Yeah. And so, like, it doesn't be like, hey, I reject God. There's just, this vague sense that he's rejected me. And and and yeah, it's just like a slow fade where, like, everything that's otherwise kinda surrounded them starts to kinda fade away. They start hanging around with different types of folks as they kinda start coming to church intermittently.

Anything that they had that I would consider a good discipline or biblical fence with bible reading or study or listening to things like… It's just that it kinda all starts to fall off. And then six months down the road, and that, like, they would not necessarily say that they're not a Christian, but like they're super like smoky foggy about it. Yeah. It starts with a discouragement and leads to almost an anger. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. But but I I I don't know, like, there's there's weird nuances to it because, like, I I think you get a couple years down the road and the the people… Those folks will hit a crossroad and either they completely bail or they try to jump back in. But in that interim, like, six months to eighteen months, like, they're just super noncommittal about anything. Like, they don't wanna they don't wanna say and they're like, they won't even tell you, like, what's wrong or like what specific thing they're they're they're fretting over or or the situation. It's just like like real ethereal type. Yeah. And super difficult to deal with. Like, can… Well, and when I say that, I mean, you can't help. There's like… Like, it's it's frustrating because you see someone that's that's languishing and, like, there's just not a way to help. And so so so base level… So let let… Let's start with level one. Someone comes up and says, hey. Look. I I… I'm talking to god, and I'm not hearing anything back.

What are the types of things that you respond back to? Go ahead, Dan. Well, I I I always go back to… Well, you have to remember he's God and you are not. I mean, you know, he'll do what he says he pleases. You know? And you're you're following him. He's not following you. So so be patient. That's that's so hard for us to say. We're so impatient. We want things now,

and and we want the tingly feelings, and we want answers to prayer. We wanna check off every prayer request we have, and and we wanna feel like we're skipping down the hallway with… Hand in hand with God and into the sunset, you know, because we don't do that in a hallway to a sunset. But this is the coolest hallway ever. This is going down real quick. Who built this thing? I came up with a better idea than the whole sentence. But, you know, it's it's expectations

that that are being dashed. And and it's like, just just calm down. Just just take a breath and and wait on God. That… That's… No one… No one likes to hear that though. Yeah. Nobody likes it. It's like, you're full of crap. Yep. Yep. I'm still not feeling it. Well, that's my point. You're not. Right. Actually, so so like I I I've been mailing this over a little bit for the exact same reasons. Right? The amount of… Just just the folks around me and and people that I run into. And I have, you know, be honest with myself every once in a while. You know I'm saying? Like, I just… I was thinking about it and I thought… It started occurring to me that I don't know where I got this notion that that God acts this way. Like, I've I've got it from maybe people who follow Jesus that I know, who who… God seems to interact in a very more charismatic way than maybe he interacts with me as far as I can tell. Right? But, like, if you look back to, say, biblical examples,

the one that just popped in my head was was when Saul was trying to kill David. Right? And David goes and hides. And it doesn't say that, like, David's like, Lord, what should I do? And then he stood still waiting for God to say, go hide somewhere. You know what I'm saying? Right. Like… And then once I hid, hey, there's bread here. Should we ask if we could have some? I'll hang tight. And and then, you know I'm saying? Like… This this is the type of relationship that that that they're looking for. Right? Like, I ask God this big huge question and and and he's like, you know, I I I've I've not provided a bunch of examples in my bible where I interact this way. I've… I I do show that I interact with my people and I do answer prayers and I I will insert myself into the the rhythms of creation when I choose to.

But but, I mean, you don't even see historical biblical characters asking for interaction this way from God. Right? Like even the Right. Even even Mary and Joseph on on Jesus' birth, like, the angel showed up and told him, but it doesn't say Mary was asking for it. Like… It's not like he came every every couple days. How's it going? You know, we we we read it like he's just always there. And it's like, no. Then then all of sudden, the shepherd showed up, you know, nine months later. And and, oh, you heard from God too? And I was like Right. It's not like they're

all singing Kumbaya every day. Yeah. We were just talking about that example in… Was it Acts sixteen seventeen? Right? Like, Paul's Paul's second missionary journey, he's… They they get done and things are going well in Antioch or whatever and the Jerusalem council happens and then then Paul's like, hey, we should we should go back. We should go back and check on them, see how everyone's doing. And like, there's been angels and like intervening messages all over Acts. You don't see it here. This is just Paul saying, you know what? This seems like a good idea. Let's do that. Yeah. And and he hits him some towns and he keeps rolling and then he thinks, we think it would be good to go to Asia. And then the Holy Spirit stops him. And you're like, well, okay. God said not to go here. Let's keep rocking. Gets the dream from the Macedonian, man. And then they go… And he's like, well, seems like we're supposed to go to Macedonia. But, like, so so there there there's like… It's it's a mix. Right? Like, there's there's a there's a notion that God will step in. God will help guide your path to the extent that it… That there's something specific that he's after. But, like, it's not like all these decisions are being made, where where they're they're just sitting there and saying the the holy spirit will breathe into my ear what to do. It's like the the wording is really, we think this would be a good idea. And the Lord says, yeah, I expect you to put two thoughts together after we've kinda talked and you have a rough idea of how things work. Go ahead and go. And then, if it seems like you're going off track, I'll step in and say, you know what? Don't go to Asia. I could… Peter will take care of it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, it's just interesting. You're right. Like, we just have this expectation of of interaction from God, and it's…

We probably have the sense that, like, whatever it is that we're asking Him is, like, different. It's super important. Like, don't you know, Lord, like, I'm hanging it on the line here. I wanna give everything to you. I'm just asking you as I sit here in the pantry, praying for guidance, just give this to me so I'll know what to do. As if that is a greater consequent, like, like, if we're kind of moving the Lord's desire to interact with someone based upon what we've decided to put on the line is, like, the big item. Yeah. Mhmm. And so, like, it comes from… I think it comes from a right understanding…

Uh-huh. Quasi right understanding. Right? It says, I want I want to do what God wants me to do. Right? It's the right underlying desire. The heart's right. Yeah. The the heart is correct. But there there is a bit of a, of a lack of maturity relative to everything else that God has kind of put in place. Like, says that, you know what? Your… The scripture is not good enough,

even though you gave it to us. The institution, the the creation of the community of the church and the and the brothers and sisters, like, there's there's no reason we use family language here, to otherwise help with these types of things. Think think of what God has made humanity, Christian followers responsible for. Like, we're the bearers of the good news. It's the highest possible job you could have. And and and you're kinda looking at at this same group of people and saying, yeah, but that's not gonna cut it. The Lord must respond to me directly. There is no wisdom anywhere else here. And so, like, it is it's just a… It's actually not even a reasonable conclusion. Well, and so… And and so maybe that's the that's the crux of our our religion relationship.

Yeah. The question is is is is where do these expectations come from? You know, where we expect God to to to act in this in this whatever way. And when he doesn't, then we start… And then you start to see the the the smokiness. Right? The the smoky, well, you know, I I I asked for this and and gave it on the line and then you didn't answer and then I start getting kinda fuzzy and fading out and whatever. And then, like, if you put it in in a worldly example a little bit, it's like you're you're actually more willing at that point to give your boss

honor and glory than you are in the faith in the God that you said you had. Right? Because when God didn't answer your thing, then you start floating away and start kinda going off to do your own thing. But like, if you send an email to your boss and he didn't respond, you would continue to show up and work. Because… You know what I'm saying? You would just show up because you know how the place runs. You've been working there. You would just continue to do other things. You're like boss, I got this great idea. We should install this over at a water cooler. It's gonna boost productivity. And it's crickets, You don't answer your email for nothing. You see him in the halls. He's not on vacation. He's just flat out not answering you. And guess what? You're gonna be in that chair tomorrow at 9AM doing work because you know how the thing goes. Right? And so you are you are willing to give your company, your boss, whatever, this certain amount of honor and duty, and then the God that you claim to know, to know to be the creator of the universe and father to us all, you're like, you know, I'm just gonna slowly slip out the back, you know, because I don't dig on this anymore. And so does it does it really boil down to that you you didn't have a solid belief in it in the first place? Like, he didn't actually believe it. Because here's the thing, if God chooses to ignore you… Like, if you if you know he's creator God and you know that he's king of everything, then you go, does it really matter? I don't I don't don't really have much of choice in the deal. He gets to ignore me all he wants. He's sovereign king. What am I gonna do? Where else can I go? We we all wanna be the the star of the story. You know? We we read David and Goliath, and we're either David or Goliath. We're we're not one of the 10,000 soldiers sitting in a tent eating our peanut butter sandwiches Right. Scaring the crap out of us because Goliath is gonna kill us. You know? We're praying. We're praying. God, what do want us to do? God, raise up somebody. But but but we all wanna be David. Yeah. And and God only called one David. Is this a is this a is this a western civilization problem? I think it is. Is it? You… I mean, it'd be like the whole… Does the whole world suffer this this David complex? Have…

We have special participation trophies. I mean, goes beyond that. Mean, because previous generations didn't have participation trophies. But but that's just that's just our thing. Oh, they melted them down for bullets. We were really impossible. On at least one of the 12 apostles. I mean Yeah. Right. What what my opinion was being the b apostle characters. Right? But no one ever considers we're the guy that peed ourselves in front of Goliath and went back to the tent. We used our David to show up. You're like, you know, I relate to that guy, the p… The fence man. I'm not the unnamed guy in the church.

I have a name. Yeah. That's true. When it says many… And thousands became followers of Jesus that day or whatever the Pentecost, we're like, that ain't one of us. But wanna mention me. Yeah. Or were the dudes by name shouting out weird languages? That's gotta be deep. Yeah. I'm 809. That's me. I'm Convert eight zero nine. But I honestly think we struggle with that, that we wanna be special. And and we're told that, you know, part of that is is the culture as the American pre… The western preacher. It's it's our books, our songs, you know, about this love relationship we have with God. We get a sloppy wet kiss and and, you know, all this great wonderful stuff. And I was like, no, you're a dude who's following Jesus. So shut up and just follow.

Yeah. So it… That's… It's interesting. Right? Because, like, there are attempts to just like the phrase, it's not a religion, it's a relationship, there are attempts to help us understand on a human level things about God that that seem difficult like grace, mercy, love. Like, it puts it in the context of a friend. I mean, they're they're biblical concepts, right? It's not like the bibles that speak to those types of things. But, like, when you niche them out and they… And you start to take that and allow that to define everything about that, about your interaction with God, you you start to run the risk. Right? Because like, Mike, back to what you had said, you said, you know, is it possible that they didn't believe it to begin with? I I don't know if it's so much that, but if I walked in and I and I was told

that it's not a religion, it's a relationship with God, and the way that I think of a relationship, like, I bring all my… Everything that I believe associated with a relationship into my… How I think I interact with God. Right? So, like, some of that is to help me conceptualize how I might actually have a relationship with God. But but it is not intended to actually, I think, give you a full perspective of your inner… Of your, interaction with God. And so where that falls through though, where our examples fall through,

we then run into a problem. We say, well, I was told this was a relationship. This doesn't feel like a relationship. Either God's not real or he hates me. Either… And right? And so so you come to a false conclusion because you misunderstood the nature of God and your interaction with him. And when I say misunderstood, I I I mean, you you probably just didn't get a whole picture. You just got a a snippet of which wrongly contextualized how you actually interact with God and how he interacts with you. You know, even even the preacher will tell us that if we're the only one, Jesus would have died for us. Right. Right? And I've always… I've often thought, really?

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, can you… Do you guys… Can you think of a scripture that would say that? Or would he go, it's only one. Yeah. You know what? That's really good. I really screwed up what I made Carl. I mean, I really don't know. I just think, gosh. We're taking liberty there with God, saying, well, he'd to the cross if it was just for you. And I think… Because that that that kind of raises the the the non believer right there too. No. God loves you. You're special. Right. You know? I think… Well, you are… I mean, he he did die for you. He died for all of us. Yeah. But is that going too far? Well, I I think that… Well, I think you're right. I think I feel like that's a that's a western individual where where, like, other cultures would accept it as it was done for humanity. I'm part of humanity. That's that's enough. That's still a fantastic

gift. Right. Where where if it was not a personalized gift for me and you wouldn't have done it just for me, then I'm suddenly offended because I'm alright. You know? Hey. I'd be I'd be interested to see… Dan, maybe maybe maybe you can ask Zimbabwe pastor. I'd I'd be interested to know if they struggle with, what what's the part… And I'm I'm I'm not thinking of the book, but where where it talks about being saved, through childbirth. Right. Yeah. So the things that that imply,

at least where we struggle, it seems like there's a relationship to, like, being close to someone and that salvation is, like, related to that. Family covenant type thing. Yeah. And I I just think kind of… And like, I I mean, I I don't think it's it's not just because, you know, you married to me, you win. But like, I I'm just kind of interested on things that we super struggle with because when I… When he was on the cross, I was on his mind. I And think to my… And I… And it's a very hyper individualized

thought process. Like, do struggle with being part of a saved kingdom versus being a saved person that then gets the tag as a kingdom fella. And so it's… And as a matter of fact, I had… I found this on Amazon two years ago, and I've I've been waiting for someone to do a used one, no one's turning them in. But, like, I I'd like to see… There's an African bible computer, like a study bible

that's that's from Africa. I have one. One us one of us is the same one. It is. It's got like a picture of the continent on the front. I think so. Have you read it? Yeah. I I I actually read it several years ago and I would… I kinda forgot about it. Culturally. Like, obviously, the the gospel's been able to permeate the world. And for the most part, everyone's getting a consistent message, but it's weird where the places where, like, our hills to die on exist. And it'd be interesting to see… What was I… What did I hear one time that someone was talking to, bible scholars in in, like, Russia or,

like, Sudan or places where, like, there are, there's a lot of oppression, by, like, dictators and stuff. And so, like, I mean, we really sweat the the Canaanites, right, where, like, people go, like, I'm going in there and taking out these people. We're like, oh, man. I just can't take the moralness of it. And, like, these fellows are not having that problem whatsoever. Yeah. Like, like, they're looking at and saying, yeah, this seems… Yeah. Yeah. That's that's right. Because they're from… Like, they're they're on the oppressive side. Right. And so we're like, we… Because our history,

let's go with Anglo Saxon kind of history, has a has a history of aggression, there's like a guilt associated with going in and chucking people out of land and taking it over. And so, like, we identify with, like, potentially national sins of the past or cultural sins of the past. And so, like, we're trying to kinda weep and plead through this understanding of how God can be associated with something we seem so terrible. And then guys on the other side of the continent are are, like, on… Haven't been on the other side of this thing and and and evil oppressive machines and people sacrificing kids to false gods and they're, yeah, you know what? God God did good. They're like, this was the thing to do. The only way to win is to clear them out. Yeah. And so so it's it's just interesting. And and here's the thing, this is where we run a risk, we we talk a lot. It comes up on the show a lot where we talk about kind of western problems. I think it's because you want to recognize the problems that exist in your backyard. I'm not implying that, there aren't eastern beliefs that are problematic,

and that, you know, everyone in Sudan has got this thing nailed. But I'm just saying, like, we've got to be a little careful that we are not completely blinded by our own movie theater here on how we see the world. We've kind of got the market cornered on perspectives when there are brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the world who will just… Who will take those things indifferently. They're not. They're struggling with certain other things we're struggling with. It's it's actually interesting to think that, like, all the all the inspirational bible verses or whatever that we put on posters and t shirts or whatever we use to remind us,

you know, things about God that we wanna remember. Like, they were all from from letters written to large groups of people. Right? There's not one letter in the in the New Testament that is addressed to like one Well, Philemon and Timothy. Phile… Yeah. Timothy and Philemon. And Philemon. Yeah. Right? I I don't know. Do you pull… Did they pull a lot of inspirational quotes out of Timothy? You're wrong, man. I was more thinking like the Colossians and Ephesians. Like, these are the things that are dominating inspirational quotes. Right? So… But but, like, we take… And we've we've talked about the, you know, the knit in mother's womb and Jeremiah and and, like, these things are, like, I I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me. Know what saying? And and and and, like, it's some of these things that that that, you know, he was addressing a a large group of people, you you know, and we use them as a as a personal battle battle cry of of sorts, you know. And, like, I I don't know that that that happens,

across the world. You know I'm saying? Like, I don't know if that… If that's the mindset. Like, I have to have my own personal bible verse. Hey, man. That should be super interesting to see what, what people are posting. Well, shoot. Actually, Sarfraz put… Post stuff every once in a while. I should go back and look and just see, like… He's Pakistani. Like, to see what kind of things are motivating or inspiring

folks of other cultures and, like, how much of that is is me centered versus… Group centered? Yeah. Like, group centered. Yeah. That'd be interesting. So so so back to the religion relationship question, is the religion relationship issue…

Is the relationship part of it… Is is it the individual part that you think is is getting us caught up? I think it is, I think that the part of it is is it's like when we think relationship, and this is this is… Again, we… We've kind of represented this, a lot of Christianity has, we think like coffee with Jesus or, like, I speak with him, he speaks back. Like, there's this just general thought process on, like,

I can I can, because of the way that we, can converse in in the modern times, like, we are waiting for? We don't wanna wait for answers, and I expect when it's a relationship that there's an equality to it. Right? I speak I speak to him, he speaks back to me. That's the nature of relationship. But, like, that… I mean, that's not really the nature of all relationships. But my relationship with, I suppose, hypothetically, my dad is not necessarily that, like, we are all on equal footing. Like, he has a, like, a role in my life of which I have an interaction, and I have a good father, but that does not imply an equality necessarily

in… And, like, it's a… It's it's it's a picture because, obviously, trying to understand your relationship with god is is is always going to be a little bit more or beyond what your earthly relationships are. But, like, if if if I've brought Jesus down to the coffee shop level and I expect that he… That I will I will speak to him and then I will hear back when I want something answered for me, even if my heart is in the right place, the extent that I do that for years and I don't hear anything back. We've actually set someone up for, like, what are completely reasonable conclusions. If if I'm supposed to believe that when I speak, he speaks back, he… Because he wouldn't dare not answer me,

then either he's not there or he doesn't care. And this is where I think that my office example was solid. Right? It's like you it's like you email in the CEO of your Fortune 500 company and said, you know what? I could go for a new chair. And then… And and you expect… And and you you really should go, I expect an answer from the CEO man about my new chair. And, like, he sees your email and goes, you know, I got a million things in place to cover this chair situation. I… It's covered. Right? It's it's it's done. And and… But but you wouldn't assume that. You wouldn't assume that the CEO is going to write you back about the chair on a personal level because it's it's outrageous. That's not the hierarchy. Right? Your relationship with that guy is much different. So… Well, so here's the problem with that. It's like, if I'm if I'm the… Looking for the relationship guy, I would say, but, like, god is obviously not constrained by that. He's capable of talking to me. Well… And so He's he's choosing not to respond to my pleading. What kind of god wouldn't respond to my pleading? One that has plenty of of

systems in place to take care of this thing. Yeah. So… And I think that's part of the point. Right? It's not it's not saying he can't, and, yes, indeed, he is choosing not to, but it it doesn't necessarily imply that you cannot be helped through the mechanisms that God has otherwise set up. If you're an atheist, you probably… That sounds like a cop out to you. But, like, God has set up a set up a a… An infrastructure. Like, he set up a means in which, we have scripture at our disposal. We have prayer and community. Prayer and community. Right? Like, and so, you know, we… And actually, you know what's interesting? Is that, like, how often how often in Jesus' life do we hear God the father responding to him directly?

I got nothing so far. Yeah? Yeah. Like, in Jesus' life? Yeah. Yeah. Like, even, like, at the baptism, I mean, there's He tells everybody else, hey. Yeah. This guy's right on. My son, I'm well pleased. And and, like, he talked… CEO sent an email that says I'm well pleased. That's awesome. Share request received.

I mean… And you get kinda like, you know, like, Jesus speaks with confidence. He will glorify it. He will glorify it again. Right? Like… And then we see him praying. But, like, if if the example… If Jesus is kind of like the… Is he… If he's the he's the citizen, he's the guy of who was the example for all citizens. Like, some of our expectations at life, when we look at Jesus' interaction, like, we still he… See him asking

questions that imply that he's not going to get a direct answer. Like, even the prayer in in the garden in Gethsemane before he dies. Right? He answers his own prayer and says, if… Here's what I here's what I would like, if that's the case. If it's not the case, I'm gonna go ahead and move forward. And, like, short of holy spirit in Asia saying no and man from Macedonia, Jesus goes to the cross. And so it's weird sometimes that our expectation is, like, how could god ignore me when I've been pleading with him for multiple years to just respond? And, like, that is does… Is… It's the wrong expectation.

Mhmm. And and I… And I'm afraid, I guess, and this is the core of of the question, is I'm afraid that sometimes when we use phrases like it's not a religion, it's a relationship, although I agree with it, kind of, because, like, again, James seems to think, look, religion is okay. Because because he talks about what's a pure and good one. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we're trying to to to steer people from an empty, meaningless babbling. Right. And and I mean, so, again, like normal, the the heart is right. The the the motivation's

right, but it it often is… Gets interpreted or put into place incorrectly. Yeah. And now he's our buddy. And so… And maybe that… So I suppose that the core risk that we're identifying, right, is that, like, people don't come to, peaceful, joy filled kingdom living through pith.

Right? Through through a through a clever turn of phrase. That might get them looking in the right direction. And it might even get them strutting in to to the place of which they… Into the baptismal pool. Right? But, like, the full… A fuller understanding of god and his nature, your relationship with him. Because, like, you do have a relationship. Like, that's true. It's not like it's not true. Yeah. That's true. I would just misunderstand. Wanna You won't… We wanna undersell this. Like like, because people gonna be like, the holy spirit speaks to me, or I have a vibrant prayer life where I feel like he talks back to me. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen. Okay?

We're just saying that, like, the… Generally, the the outpouring of this of this smoky Christian fading or whatever, like, seems to be this. This seems to be the root. It seems to be the crux of… I… Just personal experience, of conversations I've had, like, seems to where it orients itself. Yeah. God… I expected God to either answer me or provide this. He didn't. And if I'm not important enough for him to respond to me, then I'm following… I'm I'm… There's no reason for me to continue to follow. I'll find somewhere else. So… But this starts to beg the question though. It's like like, is it is it too far to fall back and say, like like, it's the it's the as you go part. Right? It's the great commission where we say, look, if if long as I'm I'm, keeping with my scriptures, surrounding myself with community and and praying and and and talking to God, then I just go, and then God will put the woe on it. He works in the negative. Mhmm. And so, like, I… I'm not gonna wait for a positive affirmation for every single thing I do, but I will look for a big brick wall put in front of me where God says, nope. I mean, he can he can work in the positive. Right? Man from Macedonia in dream is an affirmative stance.

Yeah. And, like, obviously, the collection of stories we have… Like, talked about this before when we were talking about the guy who… How many reasons? 50 reasons God isn't real? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, like like, talked about this before is that, like, scripture obviously, like, highlights stories. Like, I don't… I didn't turn… Paul's not turning in his journal and sending it to the Ephesians. Right? Like, there's there's things that are sticking out where the holy spirit has acted or, like, there's specific things that he's seen that he's using. Romans,

if you if you wanna look at it, like, it's… Yes. It's a letter. It's well crafted. Right? Like, this this is a craft to writing a letter. And so it's a it's a little bit… We gotta be careful in representing, stories intended to to give us to tell us true things as if they are indicative of what your everyday life has to look like, otherwise, there's a problem. Because I think that's that's where… Like, those things do happen. They can happen in in… Collectively in people's everyday lives. I think there is a risk though in saying, if I'm not getting up and speaking and 2,000 people are are receiving the holy spirit today, then obviously something is amuck either with the god's faithfulness to me or my faithfulness to him. And, like, that is where a lack of perspective on what is… What we're being communicated to starts to run some risks.

And so, like, do I think… I I think we are probably not as receptive to the the work of the spirit for the individualized reasons that we've been talking about. I think we would probably miss them. Again, we… Like, we get… We're like dreams. No. No. Nobody does dreams. Paul got dreams. Macedonia stuff. Right? Like, I mean, I think it's possible. And remember, we've we've talked about the examples. A lot of, a lot of Muslims come to faith in Jesus Christ through dreams because they'll they'll believe them. They'll believe them, and they'll react to Jesus showing up to them in that way. And so I think I think… I I don't wanna, I think we'll probably have a have a a deficit here just in our mind… Mindset. Like, we'll miss it. But then we also seem to have this, like, accusation to God to say, I I will speak and you will answer. Like, it's… I mean, that that reversed the situation Job's style. Did it not? Yeah. Like, that's that's what we're after here. And so So I… Here's my worry, though, with with with what you're saying then is, like, if if…

Walk faithfully, right, in the things that you're doing and living a life in honor to Jesus Christ. Yeah. When a brick wall shows up, if you feel like you've been navigating this on your own, then the brick wall shows up and you go, it's just a small stool in my way. I will go around. You know what I'm saying? Like, do you recognize the the brick wall? Do you… I mean, you know what I'm saying? You're saying that my higher authority, the king of kings, gets to run and interact in my life life as he sees fit. But if I'm running the ship 95% of the time, your wife is running your household 95% of the time and you wheel in at 09:30 after being gone all day, peeing the PM, and start handing out ice cream to the kids, people gonna be like, hey. You ain't running this show half the time. You don't just get to come in here and do what you want. And it's harder to recognize and harder to take. And so is the risk then, like, when when when when God begins to interact in your life that you pride past him because of the stance of I'm not seeking to ask every day and and verifying every decision by. I'm not submitting.

I'm basically running, waiting for you to bowl me over. So I think that runs… That… There's actually the same risk as just expressing itself differently. Because, like, the… You still… I think you you… You're still talking about a a… There's a humility in following Jesus. Right? There's a humility and submission to God that that that I think I could be wrong here, but I feel like you're just not gonna miss it. Like, the extent that you're walking humbly in faith, I feel like if God is putting up… Putting the holy spirit in in front of Mizia and saying you're not allowed in, I feel like you're catch it.

So so, I mean, if I characterize that, let's say, like, the walk of a of a of Christ follower is a, confident, humble walk. That's accurate. I can walk confident that I'm following the holy spirit and and and humbly enough to notice when he shows up and says, no Asia. Yeah. I I think so. Like, what's the what's the early church pray for? Boldness. Right? Like, we want we want to be bold. And so, like, there is there is a confidence. There is a boldness that's associated with it. And, like, the…

To be honest, with with the the folks that… The, examples that I was thinking through, the things I'm running into, a lot of them, are… The precursor is some sort of sin in your life of which you can easily identify. Right? Like, I can I can tell you when I've run into sin sin issues in my life? I can tell you what they are. Can tell you when they happened. And so, like, what I'm saying is is that a lot of the barriers that people are running into are known barriers. Like, there are things where you look, I can't be following god here. God is not blessing my extramarital relationship. Yeah. Right? And so, like, that's that's silliness. And so I think you're hard pressed to find someone who is, like, actually walking

humbly faithfully, in a living god who, like, is then missing the the signs that god is giving. Like, most of us are trying to explain away our own behavior that's… That justifies or or, like, emboldens our own opportunities in life and try to make it look like that's what Jesus might want for us. And so, like, I mean, we're… I think we're 10 steps before the problem you're talking about. Okay. It's it's, it's it's actually… It's something I I continue thinking about, which is, like, I I I feel like Christianity has has largely not been tried.

It's not been tried and left wanting. It's not been tried. Like, people… We're we're actually just giving giving our lives up to Jesus and saying, like, whatever you whatever you want, I'm in. And he says, great. Go about your business, in the in the means of which I have provided. Right? Like, I've given you how to live. I've… You've… We've got scripture on how to live. You've got a community to help you. You've got prayer for these types of things. I don't need to show up at your door and say, shave your face and try not to cuss today, babe. Shave your face. Right? It's just it's just not necessary. Use the iffy. It's… No. It's weird.

It's weird this this posture of humility that comes to god, like like, that we rightly understand in our relationship with god. But I think we have to be careful that you don't completely diminish the capacity of which god has given you. He's empowered followers of Jesus to be like Jesus and to to do the work of Jesus. The the the notion of… The Old Testament notion of being a kingdom of priests. Right? A group of people whose job is to help mediate the relationship between God and the rest of the world. It's where the… It's where Israel failed and where Jesus succeeds. That that definition of God's people shows back up in revelation. You are still a kingdom of priests. You still have work to do. And, like, God is saying, I want you to do it. What… What's one of the the… To to one of the church's revelation? He says, like, you you… You've not doing the thing that you're you you first did. Yeah. Right. That's right. So so, like… So so the thing is is that, like, yes, you're you're gonna walk in humility, but it's not like you don't have stuff to do and it's not like you're not capable

of doing them. He's got kind of high expectations for the church to get out and do the work of the church, and you do the work of the kingdom, then people enter the kingdom in reaction to that. And so what what I… It's it's a hard it's a hard thing because, we… We're actually just talking about this Sunday, is that, like, the the… Nowhere else in the world works like this. It doesn't work where we say, try your very best, know that you're gonna fall short, don't beat yourself up about it because god's got it, but don't don't… You dare dial back the effort that you're putting into the work. And, like, nowhere else works like that. Any other time, you put the effort forth and you fail, you wanna ruminate it for a while, you try to learn your lessons from it, you you take personal responsibility and guilt and go on. And, like, we are fallible human beings taking forth a,

a perfect message. And so, yeah, that's kind of a… From a perfect god with a perfect Jesus as an example of who we are to do our very best to be like. Yeah. It's just not like that any other place. But, like, but going back to the the example that I think, like, what you're talking about, I feel like it's pretty clear what we're to do. And the thing that that changes is the environment of which you're doing it in because you you work where you work, I work where I work. Dan's got work with… In in place he's doing. He's got influence over people in certain ways in certain situations. And, like, to the extent that you're following through on those and you're you're you're successfully

executing kingdom of priest type behavior, yeah, I feel like the holy… Like, you're likely to catch the holy spirit saying, you know what? Don't go in there. This this is this is tough. Right? Like, I could see how this is a this is a tough box to harangue because I… So think of my example. My example would be, hey. I I think I should start a bible study at my work or whatever. Right? Do it. And so, like… Yeah. Right. My instant reaction is is to, well, what are you waiting for? You're you're you're praying and asking for the lord's intercession when you're saying things like, I'd like to talk to you with other people at my work on a regular basis, and you want god to affirm this in some boisterous manner without pulling the trigger on it. Right? Yep. But, like, the the the the worry is is is like, if I didn't ask God's permission and I did it and it succeeded, then I start to wear this thing as if I've come up with this great idea and it's go… It's succeeding because of me. And that's that's confidence without humility. Right? Like, that's not a humble God God waters, you know, type of type of action. And so the the worry is for maybe people that struggle with a bit of a pride problem, maybe. Yes. Right? Like, when it comes to when it comes to doing things on God's behalf without or or or to further the kingdom of God without, you know, humbly running running it through him and waiting for his affirmation,

it's basically, me sitting back and going, look, if if I do this without hearing from you, I feel like I'm gonna I'm gonna try to warp the success and and own it in some capacity and and waiting for God to say, we'll shut it down then because I I don't think that's a great idea. But you're… But what you're saying is it's like these these are unnecessary worries. If you're if you're if you're following Jesus Christ, you're asking if you should talk to other people about him. His answer is yes. I don't think you need a fireworks show to get that done. You know, just pull the trigger. Hey. I wanna I wanna adopt from Kenya. Go ahead. You know I'm saying? I wanna give money to this organization. Do you think this is good place for my money to go, Lord? Yeah. Whatever. You know? Go ahead. Yeah. And I I I think we've, I think we've we've kind of done this because… Wait. Wait, Mike. Let me ask you this. How do Christian how do Christian radio programs raise money? What do they say?

The… If the Lord is asking you to give to our program? Yes. You pray on it. See if the Lord strikes you. Right? We put this concept that says, like, well, you know, the Lord's got specifically he wants you to give in grace to you today. Yeah. Right? And really what we're saying is, like, soon as you put the thought on it, then you're… Then you… It runs through your mind. It's like, well, I'm thinking about it. Is it because the lord's had gotten me to think about it? Maybe I should send him $5 just to be covered. Right? Like, it's kind of a manipulative move, actually. Yeah. Like, we've given this this thing that, like, that God is is doing that, and, like, it's the hardest thing because God… This is the God that counts the hairs on your head. It's not like he doesn't know. It's not like he doesn't care. I… But what I'm telling you is that he… I don't I think you're faithful in the means, and, like, I think God is not often haggling over the means. Like, maybe maybe the broad point is this is not a problem we're actually having. We don't have, like… I I was gonna say legions, but I feel like that's not the right… I shouldn't describe Christians that way. Let's go with hordes or a cadre of Christians

who are all, like, faithfully following Christ and, like, I mean, we're nailing at every opportunity and missing the holy spirit who's saying, hey. I I I wanted you to go to Bandit Burrito today. There was a dude for you to talk to. I feel like that's not actually where we're at as a culture. I feel like we're five steps before that where we're debating as to, well, should I start that bible study at work, or should I even talk to anybody where I put them off? Yeah. Like, I think that's where we're at as a culture. And so, like, I feel like we can cross this this miss in the holy spirit in Maja Road when we get there, but I feel like we ain't dead. That's right. We'll address this with the big ups or… When you're getting so much done on god's behalf that the god's like, woah. Woah. Woah. I need you to back up a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Once again, he'll throw the brick wall in. The biblical examples seem to show, no. I'll stop you when you need to stop. You know? I'll tell you what you need to do. And and, actually, to coming… To using that sense of sense of framework. So the guys who are, like, spending, you know, week after week and year over year saying, was pleading with god to tell me and to respond back. What were they doing? Nothing. Yeah. They were nothing waiting for the lord to answer their their plea from the shower. As opposed to, like, again, it's not a problem we have. I I feel like we're we're… That's 10 steps back. It's not a problem. I bet our our… I… And so I'd say there's a situation or two in my life where I was very concerned that I didn't know what to do,

and I wanted to honor God with the decision that I needed to make. Understandable. Yeah. And and so when God doesn't answer that situation, that that that feels different. This is not like like… Your inclination is like, I think this is the right move. I just wanna run it by I just wanna run it by God and and see what he thinks. And and it… That's different from, I have no clue what to do either way. Lord, I really need an answer here. And then he doesn't answer that. That feels different. And that's… That that doesn't feel like it's in the same bucket. Or or just… I phrased that right. Doesn't feel like it's in the same bucket. Yeah. Because it… Because you, you know, you you logicked it out, you thought about it, and you thought, boy, it's either a win win both direction and God doesn't care or I lose either way. And I have no idea which way to lose. I know that's gonna go poorly. And so, like, I I could see that as being a a legit struggle and and trying to figure out why God will not help you when you do honestly feel helpless in a decision that you have to make. So so… Okay. Let's talk about that because that's the question then is, like, what…

I I think we can acknowledge it's a legit feeling. Right? Like, hey, I feel helpless. I'm not sure what god wants me to do. Tangible steps. What's the… What's what's the next tangible step? Like, for people to Yeah. To figure this thing out? Yeah. So so I'm gonna submit that you've prayed on it and you've… And you're receiving no answer. That's the crux of my problem. Okay. I I… You run it through community around you.

I think they don't understand me. All of them? All of them aren't taking it in? All of them. I… Okay. Okay. Let's

see. Now I've used the flip randomly through the bible and maybe he will answer on a on a… On this page method. Does that work? Have you been guilty of it? Tell me. No. God will answer me on this page. No. I've not done that. Here's the deal. I know too much. Like, I know the… I know I know that too great. No. No. What I Lord can't fool me with this scripture anymore. What I mean is 80% is the old testament. I know that. So so then they're like, I'm… Now I'm cheating. I'm, like, trying to make it fall open somewhere in the new testament where I think it'll be a relevant answer.

Give me a psalm. Praise the lord. Alright. Oh. And then you turn to Leviticus and you're like, shoot. Should I get a goat and where's all this milk coming from? So… Yeah. So so here's the thing. It's like, let let me ask you. Let's say you you you literally have… You're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life, Lord Jesus. And I would… The whole thing. The broad picture. Lord, I I feel like I'm just floating on a raft here. Yeah.

And I would say… So so here's… I mean, I don't know how to answer that in a way. Like, I could answer that differently for a friend, because, really, what I would say is… Well, I'm your friend, Ben. Okay. I feel like I'm just floating on a raft. Yeah. So so I would say, like, serve Jesus faithfully on a raft. You you know you know what I'm saying? Like like, do what you… Serve

God and then do what you wanna do. Kinda… Yeah. Was gonna say, do do what you wanna do and god will tell you if… No. No. That's not that's not it. I wanna play professional ping pong. Go for it, Mike. Yeah. Start training. But I only wanna do vlogs. I don't wanna interact with other people. It's just me recording ping pong videos for the internet. Here's the thing. Jesus doesn't find that acceptable. You're supposed to take the word to the nations. You're at yourself in a camera in your bed… In your basement. This is what I'm saying. These are the ideas I've come up with. I wanna play I wanna play video games all day. Can I do that? Can I? I'm not I'm not sitting, but I'm also not following the great commission in any way. That's sitting. Dang. You're sitting by a mission. You're out. Yeah. Here's the… So here's the thing. It's like people don't like that stuff. You're just like, hey, man. You you you should go to scripture, and scripture will help you. You're like, no. It doesn't know my situation. It's like, well, I mean, yeah, does. I mean, in general, it's, scripture works from a, like, here's the things to do. Here's the things not to do. I I don't care who you are,

reformed friends. I I… It implies that you have the choices to either do good things or not do good things. Otherwise, most of the New Testament is unnecessary. So I'm telling you, you go to you go to Chapter one. You win. Don't worry about it. Or you out. Steaks to be you. Yeah. Me. Forget rest of New Testament. So so what I'm saying though is is that, like, let's start there. Like, hey, I don't know what to do. Well, if you're stuck on a raft, let's just admit that you're stuck on a raft.

Are we being faithful in the means on the raft that you have? And then you say to yourself, I don't wanna be stuck on a raft. And I say, well, paddle to shore. Well, which way do I go? I don't care. Pick a place. If you don't really… If… Here's the truth. If you really… People are like, I don't know where to go. Well, then go to the left. I don't know if I should go to left. I'm telling you to go to left. Yeah. Give it a shot. And if you go to left and you don't like it, paddle to the right. Give that a go or walk the or walk the shore for a while. Here's the thing. It's like if you don't know, you can just start trying options. And the cool thing is that the the way that I think we can look at scripture says, yeah. That's cool. Go ahead. Walk the shore. Paddle the left. Paddle to the right. Be faithful in means as you're doing those things. It'll shake out, friend. I promise you. Wake up in the morning and start walking the path. It's like like we we try to find too much meaning in everything. I saw a cloud that must mean something. I woke up. It means something. You know, Paul got stoned and and almost killed. That'd be a pretty good sign to stop, but he didn't take it that way. No. Yeah. He didn't like, oh, God's telling me to quit. He's like, I have a mission. I'm gonna get… I'm… Guess I'll go somewhere else. You know? Right. These people seem angry. I'll try somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so he knew the core, make disciples. Alright? There you Yeah. I mean…

So so… Yeah. I've told you before, you know, when when we were trying to decide to move here, was a year and a half of prayer, we finally were just like… He didn't care. Do do what you want. Mean, either way, it's fruitful. Either way, god god's stuff was happening. Yeah. The kingdom wasn't gonna lose. It could it could gain, and it did gain coming here, but but it would've gained there, you know, and Right. What different… You so know, Lord, I wish to make disciples either here, here, or here. What are your thoughts? Yeah. He's like, I thought I said make disciples. He's like, here's the deal. You're not David. Do what you want. Yeah. If I have a specific job, I'll let you know. You're the pants wetter. Get get back in your tent. Be faithful in there.

Shoot. And and so here's the thing. It's like this direction, like, is… Should be… It's invigorating for some people. It is a complete bummer for a bunch. I hear you. So if you're if you're hearing how we're talking and you're like, boy, I really like the comfort of saying god guided my steps. I like the comfort of of hearing that, whatever I did, god must… God had a plan in it, and he was able to, and, like, it must have been for a reason. Whatever suffering or bad thing happened or whatever good thing happened, like, if if these sets of coincidence didn't occur, like, god must have been in it. What do you what do you say to a person that says, now I'm bummed out. I'm bummed out because you're telling me that God was… Didn't do all those things. He wasn't in all the steps, and, he didn't have a plan for all the stuff. He… I I could've just been doing what I wanna do. How do you help him? He's like, well, you're right. I mean,

suck it up. Read the bible about the sovereignty of God. He's sovereign. I mean, he's God. I think I think that's the difference in the religion, you know, relationship issue. It's like it's neither. It's it's it's he's God. He's just God, and and he's sovereign. That's right. And we're just people. And and we can complicate it and get crazy. He's still good with it. Okay. Whatever. You know? I mean,

more pain for you, but, whatever. Back off from it. Quit being so special and and and just just start moving forward. Do as you… Follow your heart. I hate to say that. That's kind of cliche too. As long as it's it's in in god. Right? I mean, it's it's based in godly principles, live in a godly way, and

and just just do it. Just just just stop. Fussing over everything and being so hyper about whether you're doing the right thing today or not, you know, God's will direction way. Just just live. Just live. Just live. That is so freeing.

It really is. Because you're not second guessing. Like, I I mean, the lord the lord created you as a unique being. Right? But, like, when you run-in every single decision, you know, God's like, I created you unique. If you like Cocoa Puffs, have some. Yeah. You don't have to run if… You know, I'm not gonna be mad at you for eating… Not eating the the oat bran or whatever. Like, get them Cocoa Puffs. That's fine. Unless you got the diabetes, then don't do it. Right? Like, I gave you a functional brain that's capable of logical thought that can put a couple thoughts together and and come up with ideas. Right? You don't have to pray to me about, what am I gonna name my kid? Name him Stool. It doesn't matter to me. Right? Like, I just need him to follow me. I love him, but I love Stool. And so, like, it it is weird. Like, if you were to look back at at at some of the things that you've prayed for or that you've asked god to intercede on, and then you you you think about his character and who he is, and, like, sometimes his… It just feels like his reaction is like, wow. You know, if you wouldn't have spent all this time, you know, worried about this thing, you could have just done this thing and moved on. Like, I… You could have done all this already, and you you second guessed yourself or you had no confidence that that I would have your back when the time comes. You You know what I'm saying? Like, the trapeze guy is a lot more confident hitting the hitting the trapeze when he knows that the net will stop him in case he starts to hit the ground. Right? And so, like, do we have some type of confidence that we could put put this… Put some thoughts together, follow Jesus in a bold way? And if and if we really screw it up and we do something completely outside, god's path that will harm us or put us in some real straits that'll be like, I I I got it. I I I can see you're bold. I see your heart. I see your mind. I know what you're doing. You know, I'm not just gonna let you fall just to… Because I'm maniacal and like to watch you fail. I I I think it's a shift in how we pray.

Because rather than sitting at at a red light thinking and and just just just paining over, okay, am I gonna eat breakfast at Hy Vee or Cozy Cafe? God, where do you want me to go? And you're sitting there and people are honking at you and you can't decide you turn right or left. Maybe the better prayer is, okay, God, I'm gonna go eat. I put someone in my path that needs to hear your word. Yeah. It might be… There might be someone at Hy Vee and someone at Cozy Cafe that needs to hear, and and you just need to ask God to put him in your path and put me in the right path or what… Whatever. You know? But but it's a shift in prayer. That way you're not sitting there at Hy Vee thinking, man, I should have went to Cozy Cafe. Yeah. I probably did this wrong. There's a guy who needed to talk to Jesus, and I decided, I only had $6. I can't go to Hy Vee at that price. I gotta go to the Cozy Cafe. Alright. Hey. Well, not to belabor this point, I guess, but,

I was gonna ask. So now then relative to that, what do you do with, like, James chapter one where it says that, like, if you if you lack wisdom, ask, and it will be provided. Mhmm. Ken says, yeah. You do it? He asks for wisdom, and then you move. Which would… So what would, how would I… So man in shower praying for years says, god does never never responds to me, and he says he's been asking for wisdom, and he doesn't ever hear anything back. I mean, wisdom's not actually accessible until it's in practice.

Right? A wise… Like I always say, a wise man keeps his mouth shut, but no one can ever prove you to be wise if you never do anything. And so, like, how will you ever know if the Lord provided this wisdom unless you interact or do something to show that wisdom has has shown up? If you continually wait for the gift of wisdom but never actually try to put it into practice, you could've had it for years. Well, I I think the the contention would be is they never received the wisdom to put into practice. Hey, Lord. What am I supposed to do? I I lack wisdom. I want you to tell me. Actually, that would be a tough slog because every day, I would be like, I think the wisdom has arrived. And I'd say something, and I go, nope. You're still a dummy. So my… I was talking to my daughter this morning. We're we're going to Zimbabwe in a few weeks, and, we were talking to the the preacher there that we're gonna be working with. And he said… One of the things he said, you know, hey. Maybe we go out and do some street evangelism. And and I'm thinking, okay. That's gonna intimidate our group. You know? Because we just don't do that. Right? Right. And my daughter was like, oh, man. I don't know about that. And so here's the deal. I don't do it either. It's… It is intimidating. But you know what? I don't think Peter was known as a great preacher before acts. You know? Right. If if God's got something right, he's gonna give it to you. Just just just go and open your mouth and let God work through you. Right. Oh, okay. That's true. Because the alternative is is him and Elijah laughing at you from the heavens. Yeah. Like, what an idiot. They just opened their mouth. I'm giving it to him. Did you see where Dan tried to glorify our kingdom and screwed it up something fierce? What a doofus.

All of Africa collapsed. Yeah. They gave up on Christian life completely. Sending the Hindus. I can't I can't deal with this Jesus that Dan's talking about. It's just as you go. We're we're gonna… There's there's there's a chicken place down the road from where we're staying. I bet we go there, and we'll talk to people. That scares the heck out of me. I don't do that. Yeah. I like relationships with people.

Yeah. That'll be interesting, Dave. And I'll open my mouth, and I'll see what comes out. And I might embarrass everybody a few times. Yeah. But that's okay. That's where wisdom comes from. Don't do it that way next time. And once again, right, like, the… What's what's the thing we're most afraid of? Right? You're gonna you're gonna say, hey, you know, can I talk to you about Jesus? And they can say, no. I hate you. Okay. Or like, hey, let me talk to you about Jesus and then you armpit fart for no reason, you know? Like, I mean, what is the scariest possible thing? That you know that, like, that that you went out and said, I'd like to talk to you about Jesus and then say, look, I'm not interested.

And you're like, oh, you hate me as a person. You know what I'm saying? That's what we think. When I first started preaching, I did all kinds of crazy stuff. We were on the East Side Of Des Moines, and my wife and I would just go door to door and knock on doors and just, hey. Wanna have a bible study? You're looking for a church? And we had a few people slam doors on… Nobody nobody shot us. Yeah. We were never physically harmed. They might have looked at us like, what? What? Why are you? Know? Why is that? But there were some people we we actually made connections with, and and we had a biopsy that last probably two years from from just randomly knocking on the door. I don't do that anymore.

Maybe I should. Maybe you should. Dang it. Hey. If it sounds like a good idea to you, do it. Yeah. Don't even ask the lord, Dan. Just head right out. I'm gonna… Bless this…… Weeks in the shower first. Bless this villager bible study I'm gonna do. What do I say? Oh, I… Listen. Okay. So so here's here's what I'll say. It's like, if you're the… If you're… If you resemble these remarks,

I I get it that your heart is in the right place. Like, I I know what you're trying to do. There's… It is in your mind that this is this is a… Either an attempt to validate god's presence in your life and your relationship with him, or,

it is your attempt to be faithful in the means by crying out and making sure you're you're doing the things that you're supposed to do. I would say that… I don't wanna use the phrase god trusts you more than that because that's not necessarily the case. But, like, we we are a… He has given his people a remarkable amount of freedom

to be, the unique… To to to, like, live out the uniqueness that they are in the work that he's given them to do. And it's it's it's interesting because, like, we all have basically the same work, but how it gets done, who it gets done with, where it gets done, is a wide variety. It it takes all kinds.

And, like, he uses all kinds. And so, you know, this everyone has moments of, like, I'm not sure what to do. And, I I'm not sure the biblical precedent says that that he's he's gonna show up and tell you exactly what you want to hear and a clear direction every time that you ask for it. And so you're gonna have to do,

what everybody has to do which is, you're just gonna have to keep moving and be faithful in the means that you have. If you're not sure what to do, try something. And if it's not working out, try something else. It's okay. There's not a sense of failure in here. Because here's the thing, is if you were faithful paddling to the left, and if you're faithful in the means paddling to the left, it's not a failure even if you don't stay to the left. You go somewhere else, you do something else there. Again, we'll go back to Paul as a good example. Like, man gets stonings, man gets chased out of town multiple times. He gets confused for a Greek god and, like, he… You know, he he… You see him talking to people and trying to get them to stop the behavior but, like, we just don't get the sense that he's lamenting and saying, oh, man, maybe it made a series of bad decisions. Yeah. Because they weren't bad decisions. I question my whole life right now. Like the holy spirit was banning me for even thinking about going to Asia. No. It was just a, I don't know. I don't want you there. Oh, man. That's a good example. Right? I probably would take that harshly and be like, oh, man. What… How could I be so daft and and ignoring the spirit for him to have to stop me from going into Mysia? But like, what the heck? That's a… He did exactly what I would expect him to do. Step in and say, hey, I want… I don't want you to go in here. I'm like, oh, well, great. That's not me in trouble. That's him doing exactly what I would expect him to do and saying, don't come, go somewhere else. There are places to go. Yeah. And and actually, that's the that's the coolest part of the story, I suppose, relevance to what we're talking about. You notice when it stopped him from going to Mija, the holy spirit did not tell him where to go. It took… It took pleasure. Just stopped Midian. Yeah. Just don't go here, and they had to keep going, and then they have the dream of the Macedonian man. Like, you didn't even get it bundled together. Like that… Like the story of that angel that released… Got Peter out of prison in Acts, and like, the the angel shows up, whacks him, like, wakes him up, drags him out into the middle of town, and then just leaves.

It doesn't say, great. I I brought you out of the jail, and you will fulfill the following purposes. So like, it just broke him out of jail, and that was it. And then he he had to decide what to do from there. And so, like, your expectations are just… So cool. Like, it's just not… It's not the God that we would… That we tend to pay to people, right? Like, he'll he'll make the the path straight and he'll show you the way And he breaks out the rock of the church, Peter, drops in the middle. He's an escaped prisoner. Puts him in the middle of town and goes, good luck. I got you out to prison. Best I can do. Even even Pentecost, right? They're they're they're sitting there praying and the spirit comes upon them and, like, you don't get instructions from the Lord. He doesn't go, great. I've hooked you up with the Holy Spirit. Here's how you use it to your best advantage. Like, the natural reaction is to say, the Lord has given us stuff, head out and let's tell people about… We have good news, how could we keep it? And, right? And so, like, it doesn't matter who they run into. That was the… That's the thing, right? Like, Christianity, I I I don't know how we've got such a varied wrap with our denominations and with all the way that people expect Christians to act, like, we… Everyone's got the same kind of kind of the bent, like, we've got the same thing to do. And, like, the consistency among the things, like, Christians are known for this. They're gonna they're gonna love and care for the poor, they're gonna tell people about Jesus and they're gonna, like, share good news to help them change the world. That's it. That's what Christians are gonna do and we're… Or we're gonna teach them the commands that Jesus gave because it's the second half of the Great commission. And so, like, we're gonna do those things and, like, we should expect everybody to do those things. I I don't know about you, fellas, but I feel like, again, this is not a… The the problems that exist after that point aren't problems that we're having. I feel like we're not great commissioning,

like 90% of the time. So for us to be like, free wheel around going, well, what do we do with ourselves? Well, why don't we start with the great commission work? And do it wherever you're at on the raft. And then then we'll figure it out from there where that's not working or that you feel like that you've talked to everybody on the raft. Yeah. So I… Maybe that's not an encouragement to you who feels like Jesus is with you every step of the way. Because he is with you every step of the way. He's just excited potentially to see what you're gonna do. He's like, great. Go out and do. That's fantastic. I will help. And that's awesome. And so some some of that is is difficult because it puts a lot more of your life in your hands than what you thought was there. And I I mean, that's just the nature of… That's that's life. It's it's it's it's a… That's… I mean, it's a long discussion. Right? But they're like, there's a lot to digest there and there's a lot to put in perspective.

And maybe take a look at at your life and say, how much weight have I added on to myself for absolutely no reason? Like, many things am I upset about or I'm weighed down by this decision or whatever? And and and like it's way unnecessary. Right. What I supposed to eat at the buffet? Yeah. I mean, the burden is light and you adding it all. You putting stuff on your back like I I gotta I gotta carry this big decision I made. Feels like a big loser spiritual guy. Yeah. Yeah. Like I I feel like you're not with me on this thing, guys. Like, I'm not. Yeah. I'm not. I mean, go for it. I'm not… I mean, I'm not against but I'm I'm not for it. You just do it, you know, if you wanna do it or whatever. Just follow me when you're doing it. Like, there'll be people along the way. Actually, that's the second good question. Can you think of a biblical example where… But outside of like Saul or David, like people who are anointed king or prophet, do you see God telling people to do a specific vocation?

I can't think of one. Again, besides of, like, prophets and kings, like, who require anointing. No. Like, you hear that, descendants of certain folks like were the people that were the woodworkers or the people the shepherds and all that kind of stuff. And so like, get that, but like, I… You know, I get like, that's a major thing. Lord, I I need to make a career decision. I will wait for the Lord to tell me. And maybe some people have heard from God about that kind of thing. But like, I just, you know, biblically, I just don't… We're not seeing it. I'm not seeing that, like, people are constantly saying, Lord, shall I be a shall I be an ironworker? And he's like, you know what? I put the thought on it. And I… Yes. I think you should be an ironworker. I've looked at the benefit packages, and I thought, yeah. Ironworker.

Stop making those tents, Paul. What kind of vocation is that for a traveling guy getting beat with stones? Ridiculous. You know, you should be a shipbuilder. Maybe you wouldn't get out to rickety craps all the time. I mean, inspect the thing before you get on there. Alright. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Oh, man. I'm about to tuck up the show. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you my pope style advice super quick. Mike, sit me up.

So Ben, there's a bunch of… Man, haven't done this forever. There's a bunch of people on the lawn and they're demanding that they hear from the pope. And I I was talking to them and saying, hey, didn't know the pope was here. They're like, oh, yeah. He's wearing a ball cap and he's done live from the past. I said, that ain't a pope. And they're like, yeah, it is. We prayed about it and the lord said, just a free pope.

And so apparently, Ben, they ain't gonna leave until you give them some kind of advice pope style to get them off your lawn. Yeah. Best in the biz, Mike. That's the best set up best set up man. You're the nines. Alright. Here's go. Here's here's my… So the the point of the pope style advice is I have to give advice to get these people to get off my law and make them believe I'm the pope, also something that's relevant to my life. And so here's, the quick and dirty of it is, is to listen. Part of the conversation,

that some of the folks that are, I think struggling in some of the stuff that we were actually just talking about. But also people that are struggling in… With the faith at all, there's either competing world views or there are, there's struggles with their experience.

And I… Maybe just reinforcing for me personally, be be quick to listen and slow to speak. Oftentimes, Christianity…

I'm not… Actually, that's not true. Not Christianity. Let's go with Christians. We we have an answer for things. Like, we're prepared. Like, we we wanna be prepared to say, hey, you're thinking this wrongly, and it's causing you unnecessary harm. And I I… There is a place for that because I think true things are what actually helps change how people think and and and feel about things.

But I I I I do think that, sometimes in my own life, and I think some of the situations that we've been talking about, you pull the trigger too early on the advice. You pull the trigger, like, I've… You've not gotten the the the… Listened closely to the nuance of of where people are at. And the the risk you run, with doing that is it it starts to sound like god can't solve their particular problem or like, or that there would… Somehow, people are validated. If you try to provide them help or advice to a problem that they're not quite having, it seems to validate that their situation is unique and that there probably isn't an answer for it.

And so I I'm saying this not because it's not totally cool to say true things to people that are struggling with stuff, But like there was, I'll give you actually another situation. There was an article on Christianity Today. There's a… Someone's gonna hold a rally in Washington DC. And it's a it's a a group of people who were formerly gay, lesbian,

transgender, like, whatever. So they're getting together and, like, there's a there's a load of them who have since met Jesus. Two of them were at that, Pulse nightclub that got, that got attacked in in Florida. And so so anyway, I was reading the article on it and, it's such a it's such a difficult… It's a touchy thing anyway, to talk about. And like, it's it's very much tied up in in people's identity, and who they believe themselves to be and how God might react to that. And so I… Anyway, the the the interview was with the guy who had kinda started it. He was,

a transgender, fella, and he had… He was… You know, for, like, fifteen years. So he was he was… Had lived a a gay life lifestyle and then transgenderism for a couple years, then like he met Jesus and like his life has changed. And like listening to him talk about it, one of the things that, like when he talks about his own experience, I I thought, you know, how many times could that guy maybe have shared his his story or

or where he's at in life and like, we probably didn't listen long enough to even have the right conversation. Right? Because like, there's an obvious problem. When a man has a has a knife sticking out of his arm, you you bring it up. You're like, hey, I mean, you have a knife in your arm or yeah, I know you're a fella and you're wearing a dress and like, that's kind of the knife in the arm problem here. So let's talk about that. Right? And so to to the extent that, that one's a little bit easier to identify. But I I guess what I was thinking today was that, how often do I do I feel like I've taken in the whole situation when I actually haven't? Like, I didn't listen long enough

to recognize where people were. And it doesn't matter… Like, it's true that the knife in the arm is a is a legit problem. But, like, I didn't listen long enough to figure out how it got there, why he left it there, you know, what situations came about that that that put it put it there. And and that, like, that's probably the crux of actually getting people to,

to understand what's actually going on. Because a lot of times… And I think what he was getting at was, is like he was he was looking for, a community that would accept him. He was looking for people who would love him, they cared for him. And like, that's actually… That's not the same problem as, hey, you should just stop wearing the dress. Right? Like, that's not that's… It's it's the kind of the thing, but it's not the thing. And so, anyway, I I I say that only because I I I just… I think that we,

it it doesn't cost you anything just to listen a little longer. And and and we can, I think, learn a little bit about ourselves? I think we can learn more about people. And it's not that the bible doesn't have answers. It's not like God doesn't have answers, and that he might not even… He might even be using you to provide true things because, again, it is truth that changes the world. But, but I I would say that,

whatever your impulse is, like, try to hang out for, like, another another… Like, longer. I'll just say longer. However long it is, just try to double it. See if you can stretch it out a little bit. Listen just a little longer before you open your face about something. It just seems like something that I could, would definitely benefit me. And and I would say it it it causes us to not close down conversations before they have to. Right? To the extent that you're

only listening so that you can speak even if what you're speaking is good and from your perspective is filled with grace. If you stop listening so that you can speak, like, that's… You're not gonna make any headway on the on the people that you're actually trying to interact with. And they're not… You've wasted your words because they're not gonna hear it. And there's no reason to waste your words by not listening first. That's kind of the that's kind of the major point. So anyway, that's that's Pope's advice. Get off my mind. I liked it. I faded out halfway through though. I wasn't really listening. I listened twice as Dan's listened twice as long. I just wanted to respond. I think he's accurate though. We we give someone the label, then we just… We already decide what we wanna decide about them. We don't listen to them and talk to them. Yeah. And that… That's a huge lesson. This guy and this guy… I should I should I should have brought the article that brought it in. Like, I have clips of the news. In my paper

copy. What the heck? In either case. In briefcase, I've checked my journal. So so what's interesting, right, is that like… So… Yeah. This is the… Our… So such a complicated, business that we're in because, as much as I I look and say, hey, we run a risk of being so media heavy, like we're always posturing our church services and outreach programs to like the, the easiest place to spread, which is like

based, right? This guy stayed connected to a church, with… He was… He grew up kind of in a Jesus household and then, like, just every once in a while, would would tuck in and listen to, like, a… There's like a pastor he was listening to. And he'd watch it just every once in a while. And he was, like, convicted of some things but, like, it wasn't that he didn't wanna get out of the lifestyle that he was in but, like, there was just something that kept drawing him back into still listening. And I thought, freaking, that guy's nailing it, actually. Like, he's he's actually still listening to something that he would believe is openly, that a lot of people would describe as antagonistic against him in general. And like, he's still listening. And I wonder… And and and I thank God that that avenue was open to him and that he connected with it and that's a conversation that he was still willing to be a part of. And I just wonder like, we're we're supposed to be… Like, that's us actually. We should be rocking that type of thing.

And, because we are so… Again, comes from I think from the right heart. We're so eager to say, think your life changes if you can just take in the true thing that I'm… I think I'm gonna say to you. We've we've not actually listened long enough to be heard when we want to speak. And, that's… There's no reason to waste God's word on poor behavior on our part. Alright. Mike, hope that… Or dear life from the path. Dear life from the path. My daughter is 19 and lives with me. She is seeing a 26 year old man who has a child with another woman he didn't marry. Oh. When my daughter goes out with him, he keeps her out until 03:30AM. Wait. How old is she again? She's 19. Okay. 03:30AM

or later. He has done this twice that I know of. I had a conversation with him, and he assured me he would make sure she is home before midnight to no avail. I don't think he's good for my daughter. Should I forbid her from seeing him because she lives in my house or let her make her own decision? We are not going to raise a baby out of wedlock. Dean's dad. Who's the dad?

Yeah. It's the dad. Man, well, you gotta have the conversation because you care. But I don't know. I mean, she's 19. She's living in her home. But but it doesn't mean you dictate every decision she makes. Right. I I mean… I think I have a conversation out of love to say this is this is… You're possibly going down a bad road here.

You won't listen. You don't like the guy. That's… I mean, you just don't like them. I want you to just write a letter that says, you know, I don't like this dude. I mean, a 19 year old staying out till 03:30AM, like they just do that. Right? Like I know plenty of people that aren't out drinking and drugging and causing a bunch of trouble, but they stay out till 03:30 in the morning. They just… Kids do that when they're in the teens or whatever in the crazy times…. Around 26 year olds though. Well, don't know. I mean, granted like this this relationship with this man is weird. I feel like you've… Wouldn't you rather say, look, need I to have a conversation with my daughter on a real level? Like, what's going on with this Yeah. With you dating this this fella? Like, you taking on a relationship where… I mean, you're you're moving yourself right into the role of a mom for a kid. You know what saying? Is is this what you want? Is this what you… I mean, you know, and and maybe she won't take it right. Maybe she will. But like you forbidding it ain't gonna make nothing happen. Yeah. No. And obviously, like your problem to sack the dude with with this thing, I mean, your daughter ain't coming home before midnight either. Yeah. Right? And like, either she doesn't have any influence over this man or doesn't care, which I think is is likely the second option.

And so, I I think you do have a place to say, look, since she's living at your place, and say, it's… You wake us up when you guys are coming home. You gotta be home before midnight. Like, I… You probably could have the conversation because they live at your place, because you could do the same thing if you were a landlord renting out a room. So if you wanna think of it that way, I think that's a reasonable part of the conversation. But it's not necessarily because of your daughter. It's just because there's someone living in your house and they're waking you up at night. Yeah. I mean, this is this is… I mean, I don't know how people run their house. Right? But like, if if this… If I'm this dad and I'm in this situation and I seriously, I want you home before midnight. Cause I'm going to bed. And my door locks at midnight. And so either you're in when the door's locked or you or you stay out. So I'll sleep outside if that's gonna be your deal or whatever, but like I'm going to bed. I can't control you, but I want my door locked at midnight and so when I go to bed, the door locks. You best be inside if you wanna sleep in here. Yeah. Mean, what's she gonna say? If you do that, I'll stay out night with… Out all night with this boy. You were out all night. You're already doing this. I mean, know, I I… If you ain't gonna listen to reason, you don't wanna talk to me about it. I I can't control any of that. But like, otherwise, what's the point of the curfew? Is there a reason for having a curfew on a 19 year old at at midnight? I mean, does… Are you worried about her welfare or the state of things? What do you think what do you think goes on after midnight that doesn't go on at 11:30? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I mean, it's just something I you're like to keep my sin and behavior to early mornings before the sunrise

in this hallway of sunshine that I borrowed from Dan. Yeah. I mean, I I think… I I would agree. This was more of a relationship issue with the daughter, and I think you've got to… You can you can try your best to positively influence this thing. If you wanna look at it as a… From a landlord perspective because she's in your house, I think you probably have a reasonable conversation there. I mean, here's the thing. It's like it's, it's already been broken. Hey. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I'll I'll have her home before midnight and did not do it. Like, this man has no respect for you. And frankly, think your… Either your daughter doesn't know about it which I doubt or she doesn't either and so that doesn't, like, you can work on that relationship and then I… You might… I I might take the hey, look, we're gonna lock the door tacked. I… Again, I I I don't think you need to feel guilty about that. You're not inviting behavior that's either not already happening or like is going to happen. Well, I think that's an expectation thing on his end. Right? Because the last sentence he had was we are not going to raise a baby out of wedlock.

I mean, I think they can figure out the time restraints and and and figure out how to get this boppin' done before they come home at midnight too. Yeah. I mean, here's the problem. It's like actually in the back of my mind in a similar situation, I I feel like I would say, these people are totally irresponsible. I will I will raise that paycheck. Yeah. I that kid. These people can't make any sense of living at all. Yeah. I mean, what am I gonna do? It's the kids already on the way out. Might as well take them. Alright. Sayular says, your 19 year old daughter is considered to be an adult even if she's not acting like it. Tread carefully because if you forbid her to see this man, she may rebel by moving out and in with him. Have You the right to make clear to her that under no circumstances will you raise a baby out of wedlock and that if she gets her if he gets her pregnant, she'll be on her own. Great. Yeah. That's exactly what you wanna do. And while you're at it, point out that her school or job will suffer if she continues the late hours she's been keeping. Remind her that what she's doing is irresponsible and will keep her from succeeding if she doesn't straighten up. Then cross your fingers that your daughter will get the message.

What are you, you and eight old biddies playing canasta gonna deal out this life advice? You couldn't sound more detached from the situation your daughter's in. I mean, holy cow, you better straighten up.

This is irresponsible. Your work will suffer. No. Well, just… I mean, I I would never use the phrase under no circumstances will you raise a baby out of wedlock and then if you get her pregnant, she'll be on her own. Like, if you do something I don't like, we're gonna disown you. That's the way love works. You act the way I expect you to act and if you do not do that, my love go… Comes away. I take my love back.

Yeah. I mean, it's not a… I mean, not that everything has to fall into this bucket, but like that's not the realm of natural consequences. Natural consequences, you were supposed to be home by this this time. If you're not there, you are unable to get into the house. That's kind of a natural consequence. Yeah. A natural consequence of frankly of having a baby out of wedlock is the trouble… There's there's going to be problems that come with it. You know, I I don't know that you have to compound by by by severing ties here. I I think I think the the… One of the core some points though is is this… There is a legitimate worry about if you take x step, someone might do y.

And I think that is a very difficult place because it comes it comes out of concern for whoever's on the other end of it and to say, look, I don't wanna press too hard or I don't wanna do this because if I do, they might go, they might further go away from me and get into a life of crime or join the circus or have out out of wedlock babies or whatever. Sure. And like, here's the thing is is I get that caution. I've I've gone to bed many nights with an anxiety around that very real concern. But it's it's just not reasonable. It's not a reasonable concern.

Like, it… There are things that you just can't control in someone's life. Right? Like, if you say, as long as the the reaction that you're taking is wise, and it is it is appropriate, appropriately loving and encouraging and,

truth filled and like whatever good things, way ways which you're supposed to communicate with someone. As long as it is those things, you simply cannot control the outcome. You are not causing your daughter to have a child out of wedlock by saying you need to be home before midnight. You're just you're just not responsible. And if she says, look, if you lock the door, I will… I will get impregnated. Yeah. I'm going to… We're gonna impregnate the porch or something. Like like, or we're going to go, I'm gonna move in with this fella. Like, you're not… You can't be held hostage in your own in your own life

because someone is threatening to do something stupid to or with themselves, if you do not bend to their will. Yeah. That's not a relationship. It it isn't, and like, I know, I know we get there because you care about the other person, but like, it's it's a false reality. It implies that there is, that you have control over their behavior. And frankly, if you had control over their behavior, they wouldn't be acting this way. That's… That's thing. The It's like the the way they're behaving already that made the ultimatum come up is the very proof to you that you can't do anything about it. They are going to make their own decisions. And so one, stop doing false ultimatums. But two,

you've you've got to try to disassociate like any implication that by acting appropriately and reasonable on your end, they might careen off off the cliff. I, you know, I hate to… It feels like you're disassociating saying you don't care. You very much do care. But like people that gonna be jump off the cliff and that are looking for a reason to do it, they'll find it somewhere else. It it doesn't have to be your thing. So just, you know, I don't know. It's a tough road. There's a… There's nothing that makes that easier because like it still means that someone might do something stupid and harmful to themselves and there's no getting around the fact that you care about people and are upset when they do something stupid. But

but from a guilt perspective, just be real careful about about laying that on you. People do make their own decisions. You're gonna have to respect that that's actually the case. You have less control over your life than you think. Yeah. Well, one more quick one. Yeah. One more. Dear life from the path. I need advice about my son. He has started doing bicycle training with a coach and some other cyclists and he likes it a lot. But I continually hear about accidents with bicycles and every time he goes, I am frightened for him. My husband was a cyclist for many years and he encourages him. I want to do the same but fear stops me. What must I do? I pray every time he goes and surrender him to God. Is this the right way? Are they reformed?

I don't know how you get a job as a bicycle coach. You know? Get on bike, ride bike. David, they have a guy… It's like the guy that that tells the the the coxswain. Who who's the… What's the name of the guy in the in the boat where he tells people to row? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Stroke. Stroke, that guy. The guy with the whip? What?

Some of them. What the… They're slave ships. Mike, it's the Olympic sport where there's like eight, ten guys going and he's saying stroke. Not a good type of physical rods. I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about. I'm like, who gets a… I mean, if everyone is on the rowboat voluntarily rowing, I don't know. They… Can't they just figure it out together to go like one and stroke and… Mean, when I said row Wellington the third, I mean, is there Chad in the back can't figure it out? Because I'd kick him right off the rowing team. I mean, they still do. It's like conducting an orchestra. You feel like those people could keep time, but they still have a guy up there doing the doing the finger dance. I don't know if it's apples to apples. Same. What's your encouragement for this woman? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, people can die doing anything. She hears of accidents with bikes, Ben. Yeah. She's been in this life forever. Her husband She has a son. It's a boy. Let him be a boy. Yeah. I mean, have you been doing with this kid up until now?

She married a daredevil. Her her husband did it too. He's a cyclist. What'd she expect? Yeah. I mean, he's not he's not juggling flaming bowling pins. You know? He's just he's just a dude riding a bike. I mean, feel like a like an eight year old, normal eight year old kid riding a bike is probably more dangerous than professional cyclist. With a coach. Yeah. Now I heard it's cool to try to deliver papers

try to get away from tornadoes and dogs. But really, it's best to just ride a regular bike in a regular way. I mean, here's the thing. There's not anything anybody's ever done in the free world of which you cannot Google and find some doofus that's injured himself doing it. Yeah. So I mean… I mean… Are gone wrong. Here's the deal. Toenails unclipped. You get to a certain age, you hurt your back getting out of bed. Yeah. That don't mean you don't get out of bed that day or stop getting out of bed entirely or sleep standing up. Like, these are not reasonable options. There's just some risk in everyday life. Does she take a car anywhere? I know. I'm I'm just saying… Yeah. So like… I mean, this is a… This is half the thing we've been talking about. Right? I pray every time he goes and surrender him to God. Like, you might have been just attached a little too much weight to him not being in your presence. Is it… Right? When he's near me, I got him. When he's away, God will cover him. Is it any consolation if he were to die or siri… Get seriously injured that you turned him over to the Lord in the process?

So that you can say, when when you go visit him in the hospital and said, this is God's problem. Yeah. I turned him over to you. I told him to take care of you and he did not. I mean, these are the exact things that puts people in the Smoky Mountain Jesus problems where they start whifting away. Where they're like, God, I prayed and asked you to keep an eye on my cycling boy and then he fell off his bike. Now, you owe me an apology. Right. Why didn't you why didn't you watch over him? Said biking was okay. And maybe God's like, look, ride the bike. Don't ride the bike. I don't care. Don't make this my problem. Right? Get on it or don't get on it. There's risk associated with two wheeled travel. It's weird. Because like she's probably praying for that. But like, I mean, do you pray every time you get in a car? Because I mean, literally, you're more likely to get into an accident. One that will cause death when you got two, you know, twenty five hundred pound machines coming 50 miles an hour at each other as opposed to bike versus rock. I mean Oh, no. It's what I'm… Like, you've just… You've got a heightened a heightened sense of danger here that I think is not is not… Lord, you were supposed to clear the path.

And they have all kinds of pads and everything. I mean, sure people break bones and stuff, but… Yeah. I mean, know, they… I mean, don't go riding into Compton or whatever. I mean, just go take a stroll through the park or stay out of the knife garden. Don't know. Deal with things as they come. I mean, they're just… Again, this seems like a less of a problem. Her question is, is this the right way? No. You're overreacting. She should be more worried about the chicken fingers he's eating all the time because his fried foods is gonna kill him. Yeah. You should be happy he's healthy and riding a cycle. Yeah. I should play video games at home and watch cartoons. I might get a job as a bicycle coach. Get on the bike fellas, ride it about. The same job as a track coach, right? Run fast. Yeah.

Pedal pedal, Clockwise. When you hear gun, go. Wait, counterclockwise? Yeah. Oh crap. Billy? Counterclockwise. Shoot. I'm out. Alright. Here's the secular device. A mother's primary instinct is to protect her young. Problem is parents can't protect their children in every circumstance and cycling is a mode of transportation being promoted everywhere.

What? I don't know. Do the right thing, cycle. I don't know what happened. Secular. She has really gone straight to the old folks home with books for advice. She continues. It's a plus that your son is working with a coach, presumably one who understands the hazards and road conditions in your city. Yeah. Because an out of town man can't recognize asphalt and takes a lift.

We don't have these in my town. It's straight on till morning, and then you end up on the other side of town. Under the circumstances, you're doing the best you can, and you are doing the right thing. There's no requirement that you must encourage your son as his father is doing. I believe in the power of prayer and if it makes you feel better, it is absolutely the right thing to do. I mean, do believe in the power of prayer, I guess. Is it wrong to take… You don't wanna take this away from this woman? If she finds God's healing and love and praying for her son's bicycle thing,

is that… That's alright. Is it… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is alright. Like, to each of those… To to to the extent that you do… And it's not harmful. I'll just put it that way. I I don't think… Except for when you blame God because he… You surrendered him to the kid and the kid got hurt anyway. And then I have to explain it on the other side. Actually, was having that conversation with my wife about that Jeremiah verse. She was gonna write in for somebody. And I said, look, I I mean, is it causing problems in people's lives? Probably not. But like, except for, like, if things like that happen, and then you gotta try to talk about it like, hey, woah, you didn't really understand that. Right? Like, they don't wanna hear it. And then now now I'm hosed. Well, what… I mean, what… Ask the kid who got… Who's burned with a birth birth defect or something. It's like, god knit me together like this? Screw you. Why did you why did you create me with this whatever non normal thing, you know? Like, that's harder to take in. People who are perfectly alright and like themselves are like, oh, yeah. God made this. It's dead on. He did good. Yeah. He did good if I say so myself. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate it. I hope you guys enjoyed the show. If you got any feedback for us, use an email info at live from the path dot org, and we'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to

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