Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the Pathway

Studios. We're listening to you live from the Pathway studio here in Johnston Proper. Mike, what are you laughing at?

Just watched the opening of the show, and I'm like, where are all these people? It's got credits of these, like, full time guys here. Like, I haven't seen these dudes in years. We gotta get a new intro, bitch. Oh, yeah. We need thrift store priest in there. He holds down the fort. Hey. That's true. That guy's here all the time. All the time. Yeah. Studying the word. Hanging out.

Alright. You're listening to Life From The Path. Thanks for joining us here on this, balmy Monday evening or whatever day it is wherever you are. I appreciate you hanging out with Life From The Path. Hey. If you ever have any, anything that you want us to to talk about, like, interesting articles or anything, definitely shoot us an email. Here's what I get. I get emails all week, but it's not from any of y'all. Actually People trying to sell me stuff. I had a I had a lady, a very dear friend of mine, actually, that was

very upset that because she listened to the show on the podcast or whatever, and she can't call in and rebut some of the things we were saying. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So we might have to we might have to man the phones, like, twenty four hours a day. And then people will call in and say, hey. I'm listening to podcast. I'm a minute fifteen. I'd like to rebut. Hey. That's a great idea. Let's let's I'll set that up. I'll, I can we can use, like, a Google number and, a Google Voice number and and put in a voice mail on it, then we'll check the angry voice mail during the week. That's a great idea. Yeah. I mean, can you just set up a a Google number? Doesn't cost you nothing? Yeah. I think so.

Excellent. Okay. Good. This is this is a great idea. I love being rebutted. Yeah. Okay. Good. So we're gonna set up the look live from the path. You completely missed it on this conversation. Yeah. There's no that way you can still make the call while you're driving and listen to the podcast because you don't wanna type out a a full length email for just for that thing. Well, then we can mock them the next week. Yeah. Yeah. What is the wrong? They're ridiculous. Yeah. I suppose we'd have to rebut again, and it'd be a long rebuttal. Like, it would take a week or more depending on if we run the show. And then a couple weeks would go by, and they'd be like, oh, that was your rebuttal? Well, I'm calling the voice mail again. Counter

rebuttal? That's kind of redundant. Unless they're right, and then it would take at least two weeks to get an apology out of us because because everything is delayed. That's how they used to do it, though. Like, when people would correspond arguments with each other, in the eighteen forties or whatever, they'd send a via post. It's gonna take a while to get there. Set set a it's a we'll call I mean, you don't wanna call it a complaint line, but, like, it's a something. It's a phone into life from the path and people get to leave a message and be like, you know, here's what I think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have that ready by the next show, Ben. Alright. I'm a see what I can do. Wait. Wait. Hold on. If we had to choose between a new new opening, montage, or voicemail, what do we want? No. We gotta do voicemail. I mean, those dudes might filter in every once in a while. Okay. One of them lives out of state. I he he might be iffy. Well, here's the deal. I got there's a there's there's we got two extraneous boys on there. I gotta give them a chance to say, to say, look. Look. I gotta redo the montage. Like a final subscription letter? Like, listen. We haven't heard from you in the next hundred months. I don't notice. Would you like to cancel showing up at Life From The Past? Yeah. I mean, I think I think Dave Herrick's out. I mean, he's

you're right. He's he's states away. I mean, I feel it'd be it'd be weird to hire a John Buva the fourth. I mean, you know No. It would not. That sounds fantastic. I gotta say, think you have something. Does the Buva does the Buva line end with John Buva the third? Or No. They get a replacement idea. Yeah. Actually, you know what was weird? I was I was driving in today and I thought,

like, there I I like realistically, I don't know whether Boova's come back to show. The man just got busy with some stuff. But, like, I thought, hey. Well, he just kinda faded away. Like, we should do puts bring some finality if the man's leaving and, like Should we do a a goodbye show to Bubba? Yeah. Like, with the past clips? We can weep and and and and go over his his his greatest hits. Yeah. I mean, I haven't gnashed my teeth in a while. Now's the time. Yeah. This is a great idea. Okay. Alright. So okay. So we need the complaint line and then Buva's greatest hits on queue for the departure the salad. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some Gross, Dan. You better not you better buy that from a store. I oh, I will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want me want me making that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Good. We're set up. Now that we've taken care of business, I'll, hey, everybody. Welcome back to Life in the Path. Here's what you hear I'm gonna ask you a question. Okay.

When's when's the last time you've done a you did a devotional? No. I've never done one. Dan? You you mean, like, from a devotional book where you read some little fluffy thing and, a little half prayer and a verse at the end? Okay. So, I mean, you you've Or like, you sit down with the bible and read it. No. Not sit down with the bible and read it. But let I mean, let's take your we'll chop a little bit of your negative to this off the front end of it. And let's say it was a good one that you thought was Clarifying. Wait. Have you ever read a good devotional? No. Okay.

Have you read I've tried. Our daily bread? Is that the one they give out? The daily bread? The daily bread. Yeah. I've read I've read some of them. Is that alright? Sometimes I you know, all you know, when we make fun of people taking verses out of context and making posters and t shirts, a lot of them come from those. That that's that's that's actually why I don't use them either. Plus, frankly, I don't read my bible as much as I feel like I could. And so to fork it over to the devotional, I always feel like I should probably just read the thing. Because they're they're not they're just not designed in such a way to, like, give you something of substance and, like, hey. This is what this really means. It's usually like, yeah. You can fly like an eagle. Come on. Let's go. Actually, so I had I thought okay. I should have stated this at the beginning. I'm reading a devotional. I think they're great. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us more, Eagleman. So so so one of the things one of the things that they were talking about and and it takes something completely out of context and then painted it with this big brush, I was super irritated with it. Yep. But but

I what I what I was having, it was it was to solve a different problem. I was having a hard time. I thought, what's the what's the the the whole thing about a devotion that I'm missing? The content really wasn't as important to me as devoting the time. As, like, setting the time apart and saying, this is holy set apart time, and I'm gonna do it. Dang it. And if I need some kind of cheesy whatever to get me focused and say, look. Here's what I'm gonna do, then that's what I'm gonna do. And so I started reading this devotional, and I you know, so far, it's it's it's real folksy. We'll put it that way. It's a folksy devotional. Okay. And so, anyway, like, one of the points that they were making is is they had said that, what it said the pharisees had said something, and then, Jesus,

knowing their thoughts said, you know, something something something. I can't was like from Matthew four or something. And so, what they did is they extrapolated the word knowing, went to the Greek, and said one of the possibilities for knowing, for the definition of knowing, is to see with your own eyes. And so then they then further extrapolated

that, see, Jesus physically sees all of your thoughts. He knows what you're doing. And I thought, you've really taken some undeep unrealistic

liberties here. Right? Like, you picked one of the possible definitions. You could have just said he knows them. He doesn't have to physically take them in Like he watches them like a movie. For them to be there or not, you know? And I thought, why? And and then and then they revealed why. It's because it was it was a the daily attempt was to, control your thoughts. And so so because Jesus sees them too because he's gonna change the channel. Yeah. And I thought I thought, you know, if I could if I could do that, I wouldn't be reading the devotional. You know what I'm Like, my mouth, I can control some of the time. My thoughts are wild. And so, like, it's it's it's the reason that you sit down and and and devote this time to God is an attempt to change your heart, and your heart feeds your brain, your brain feeds your mouth, and then good things come out. From the good part, the well cometh out. And that's the way that's supposed to work. Right? But, like, if if I could handle that on my own, I wouldn't be reading the devotional. I just changed myself from being a jerk, and then we'd be done.

And I thought, man, you've really missed it here. You've set an unrealistic bar for somebody where they're like, if I just try super hard, I'm gonna nail this thing. I'm like, not gonna happen. You're just gonna be disappointed, hate yourself, and then hate God for not helping you. And that's where you're gonna end up. You know, I have I I run into that with with my my wife will, every once in a while, say, hey, man, why don't you why don't you do x y and z? Right? Like like, you you never do this. And, like, my only reasonable defense is and this is this is this is the truth, is, it it never even occurred to me. Right? I mean and she says, why doesn't it occur to you? It should occur to you. And I said, I totally agree. I do not know how to get things to occur to me. Like Yeah. With without writing stuff down and putting, like, notes everywhere, and, like and so this isn't the example anymore,

because I've learned my lesson from this. But she'll be like, hey, man. You you walk by down the hallway and maybe there's some folded laundry. You should take your laundry and put it away. And I said, boy, I mean, that's I I'm I'm right on with you. It's a great idea. Then you won't. That's yes. There we go. Why would I take that from you? You love this. Obviously. You live to serve. And so, and so, like, realistically,

it it it it does things like that, like, they don't always occur to me. And, like, I don't know how to defend myself because, like, I I have I I don't seem to have any control over what pops into your mind. Yeah. So okay. Because from the from from your wife's perspective, it occurs to her. And then and so she looks like that you look at the pile of laundry, go, oh, my wife will get it, and then roll past. That's right. Where your brain actually looked at the laundry, considered it not important at all, and then just moved on without you even having a second thought on whether you should pick it up or not. That's right. Right. Like, I I might look at the pile of laundry and, like, right, it will occur to her to put it away. It will occur occur to me to think, sweet, red shirt's clean and move on. And, like, it wasn't intentionally attempting to to to skip whatever this is. It just legitimately did not occur to me, and I don't I don't ever know how to fix it. I don't know how to keep my because my mind I feel like my mind, I don't have control over my own mind to, like, remember things. Because, like, I I look at, think about it. This happened at work once. I was we were trying to figure out something, and I I thought I I figured out how to how to fix it. And they're like, boy, that's a great idea. Good job, Ben. And I thought, I didn't really do anything. I just stared at this desk for, like, twenty minutes until something popped in. And then when it popped in, I recognized that it would solve the problem. I said, yes. I will say this out loud. But, like, I didn't put any skill or effort into it. It just showed up. And so and I feel like, for the same reason I can't take, you know, credit for that, I also shouldn't, you know, be on the receiving end for leaving them laundry in the in the hallway. Is that wrong? Yeah.

I mean, do do you say the same thing to people that, like, are perpetually late? Like, that's just kind of their thing. They don't they when they're supposed to be at work five minutes from now and it's a ten minute drive, it doesn't instill any type of panic or anxiety in them. They just go, well, cutting it tight today. And then continue at a regular pace.

So kind of although, see, this is where there's a difference. There's a the distinction between, like, something that that just does not happen, doesn't occur to you, and that you have to take steps so that your it is something that your mind will focus on. But, like, I am familiar with folks who are constantly late. And, like, in the face of someone saying, hey. We gonna be late. And they still don't have a like, there's a difference between it not occurring to you that you're running out of time and then having that that thought and then refusing to acknowledge or do anything about it. And I I feel like those are two different things. Yeah. But, I mean, your your the the statement you made before that one was, like, something that you could that that that you should be attuned to and you have to take steps to move yourself in that direction. Why is the laundry not count? It no. It does. So that so so that's what I said for, like, I can't remember what this is. It wasn't the laundry. It was something. And I said, hey, if you could help me out, like, I could put I'll try to put up things to remind me. And then, if I miss it, like, if you will remind me,

I'll be glad to do it. I just it's not occurring to me. And the rebuttal from my wife was, I shouldn't have to remind you, you should just think of it. And I said, shoot, we're back to square one again. Yeah. I can't fix my own life. No, you can't. But you but I but that's what I should do is, like, I I you you have to, you may make a list or make a sign or just do something that reminds you to do things and then your mind will, the reason my wife thinks of it is because she does it all the time. And so if I start doing it, then you will start to remember it. So, like, you put those things in your life, it will it will start to work. But, but I think it's getting there that it's the rough part for me. That's a tough that's a tough, ethereal question. One that's happened to all fellas.

Why didn't you think of this? Yeah. I want to think of it. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, it happens it happens to the girls too. I mean, how do I be delicate about this? You know, early in our marriage, I I might have been thinking, hey. It's the second Thursday of the month. This would be a good time for intimacy. Sure. And my wife would be like, well, I never thought of such a thing. I'm thinking, how could you not think about it? How did this not come up? Not with Dan walking around. Look at me. I unbuttoned one of my buttons on my shirt. I mean, how would that not be your first time? Look at this beacon. And and it happened to be on my mind and but not hers. It was more of a priority to me than than it was to her, so she just wasn't thinking about it. And that's kinda how it is with, like, we'll say the laundry. It's like, well, if it's on her mind but not on yours and it's you know, it's just like Or remember to get the oil changed or, like, just, like, things that you might be thinking about that they might not always be thinking about.

And and, like, I mean, that's where the the a good partnership comes in play. Right? Like, can help we got we got all bases covered. Mine just you generally have to focus on manual work. Actually, there was a I had a solid wind this week at my house where my wife said, hey. It's starting to get a little chilly outside. It's time to switch the fan directions. And I laughed, and I said, I

always switch the fan directions. I always take care of that behind the scenes, woman. Don't you worry. That is right in my purvey. Every fan in the house, I flip the toggle switch. When it when when I check the heater out and make sure the furnace is gonna run, I make my yearly run to the fan, and I go click.

And I didn't even run it by you. I didn't set a schedule. I just took it in because that is my my fiefdom. I run the fans. And I thought, it's the first time I've ever been on top of something in my whole life. Or it's like her reminder was actually just a admonition

that I've already done it. You know, usually a reminder is a gentle reminder that you've forgotten this multiple times. Right. Not this time, bro. I switched them fans. Hey. Yeah. Pro marriage tips. Switch the fans this week. Yeah. Yeah. This is the week. If you live in the Midwest, it's time to switch the fans so they do the downwards to the up. I mean, it might it feels early, Mike. It was, like, eighty something. Yeah. But you're not turning your air on because it it gets down to, you know, mid fifties or whatever or forties at night. And so your house, you shouldn't be running the air. So that way, you're you're just moving air around. You want it to you want it to pull the heat in. Okay. Alright. Alright. I think I can do that.

I mean, anything else on that devotional, Ash? That's tough. It's tough reading. I'm sticking with it, though. I started. I'm gonna finish the day. Here here's a little, confessional, about devotionals. Uh-huh. Back in back in the day, we used to run a youth group, and there was a daily devotion for the deaf in Council Bluffs, they had a daily devotional. And, you know,

they they always wanted material. And there were two or three times I had our youth group sit down and write devotions, and I thought, well, this will get them in the bible. And many of those were accepted. Uh-oh. And I'm thinking, you know, as I look back, I think, I doubt they were, you know, extremely deep. Right. And and kinda also

told us not to go too deep because it was for the deaf so that, you know, there's vocabulary issues and so forth. Right. So I thought it was well, this is perfect then. You know? High schoolers can do this then. And but I don't know how many of them are mature enough spiritually to have something to say worthwhile. So they probably, you know, did the, hey. You're an equal thing. And

so Boy, I I got printed. People read them all over the country. I gotta I gotta say, we there's there's a couple of of 12 year there's two 12 year olds this week that blew me away with their insight. One one little girl says says, now, answer me this. Why is it that that God doesn't need us but he wants us so desperately

but we need God and we tend not to want him? I'm like, what the heck? Where did that come from? Yeah. That is the deal, isn't it? Yes. Shoot. Yes. I thought, man, that's really something to ponder. And then I felt bad about it and figured out I could just wheel myself into straightening it out. And then I read my devotional, and it says I can.

Alright. Thanks. Just checking in with devotional Eagle Mike. Yeah. But I'm gonna read more. We'll see about this. I'm gonna I I I always back it up. I do devotional first, and then I then I I read my bible just in case it has to wash out any bad taste in my mouth from the devotional. Here's the deal. You're more likely to hold on to things if you run into him twice. So, like, the the if you work if you're gonna do anything, read the devotional and whatever scripture that they put in it, and then go check in the right context, the scripture, and then you having run it through a decent filter, you're more likely to remember the scripture and then

the devotional if it actually still applies. So so okay. Last devotional thing. Okay. So so the thing for today was about letting God finish your prayers. Uh-huh. And so and so the instruction was to to like, they always have this half written prayer out or whatever. And so the the prayer was like, dear Lord, I just want you to fill in my prayers today. I'll I'll wait. Then and then, like, three dots, you know, and then I you're just supposed to sit there and hang out. I'm like, oh, man. Okay.

And so I waited and I waited and I thought and I waited and I thought, I I should wait deeper. I should have have a deeper weight, a more spiritually connected weight. And so, like, I don't know what I did. I continued to sit where I was sitting, and I'm like, I I don't know how people do this. That was written by a good Quaker. And then and then two minutes in, I'm like, okay. Here's the deal, Lord. Here's what I was gonna pray about. And then maybe you just, you know, sail in with, some stuff. You know? I thought, man, I couldn't feel any more less spiritual than I do right now. It was terrible. I I think there's something powerful about being able to kinda sit patiently,

and kinda be in the presence of god, but, like, I You even read the devotion when you say I'm doing it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. No. I'm actually I'm actually affirming that I feel like there's something valuable to that, but, like, it is I it takes some getting used to. I I think you just don't do it. I think it takes like, your your just your mind is so used to moving Yeah. And talking and stuff. I think You don't when you don't know when to stop listening. Yeah. Right. Like, is that it? Yeah. Did I do because, like, even the patiently waiting is, like, an event in which you kinda clock in and clock out of Yeah. And you and you evaluate whether it worked or not. And, like, that's actually not the point of any of that. Yeah. And and, like, if you've had any experience reading the bible at all, god's patience spans decades. Yeah. I mean, he will just he's like, that's not the time.

Keep waiting. Yeah. Okay. So, like, the three minutes you set aside is I mean, it's laughable. That's a laughable amount of time where god's like, yeah. You're gonna have a son. Really? I'm, like, 98.

Are you sure? Oh, yeah. It's coming. You just just hang tight. Go getting all giddy up on me. I told you the boy's coming. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The hey. There'll be there'll be one like Moses to follow.

Yeah. Just wait. A a leader of men. Really? Your grandpa's grandpa's grandpa's grandpa's grandpa's grandpa will

have two more kids, and then you'll know it. Yeah. I told you it's coming from the line of David. What else do you wanna know? There so there was a there was a Harvard study about kids raised in church, and it investigated the health, and mental health of children and teenagers who were raised with religious or spiritual practices.

This is gonna be vague and unhelpful. What were you talking about anyway? Those who attended religious services at least once a week as children or teens were about eighteen percent more likely to report being happier in their twenties than those who never attended services. They're almost thirty percent more likely to do volunteer work and thirty three percent less likely to use drugs in their twenties. What about their what about their thirties, man? Yeah. No. It doesn't say what they They really fall off.

In addition, people who prayed and meditated individually on a daily basis had more life satisfaction, were better able to process emotions, and were more forgiving. They were less likely to have sex at an earlier age and to have a sexually transmitted disease. The Forbes article reporting on the study con concludes some of the fundamental habits that humans have been doing for eons, praying, meditating, might actually have a lot more value than we tend to think. Why would you think they don't have value, dummy at Forbes?

Like, I don't is is it am I missing the assumption that, like, people thought, hey, man. Praying probably garbage. Don't do anything. Well, if there is no god and and, you know, it's a waste of time and religious is a crash and all that. Right? Yeah. But, I mean, if you don't believe in god, then it is, isn't it? I mean, isn't that a a big old circle? Like, if you you can't say that prayer has value if the prayer is not landing on a a god that you believe in. Oh, right. Looking at the discipline of prayer as opposed to the fact that you're praying actually to a living God. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's Your ability to sit on a couch and go, okay.

That's true. Even even, like, Eastern meditation is centered around a thought of something that is bigger than you. And so either way, it's a submission to a world that says, like, I'm not the king of the world. Something is beyond me. But you Dan, you're right. Like, they've, the way they talk about it talks as if, like, if you just introduce this practice into your life, not the actual submission to a higher Yeah. It's a scientific study, not a Yeah. On an actual faith assessment. Yeah. Interesting. All this stuff. Well, that's a really big article, man. Yeah. So, like, the first three paragraphs or so are about a Harvard study, and then there's an example about Gideon.

And then there's addressing the questions, why god doesn't god work today as he did in the bible? God works in ways we don't see. God works where he's expected. God works where we join him. Who needs to be there, Benjamin, today? That sounds like a devotional. You sound like Henry Blackaby.

Yeah. So but, like, the rest of this article looks like he just kinda tacked on a personal blog to the From Charles Spurgeon. That was Spurgeon answering all the questions. Yeah. But no. No. There's just a quote from Spurgeon here. Well, I I just don't understand and I I don't understand the relevance of the back half of the article. It doesn't matter. I yeah. Like, I think the guy drafted a blog. They took that part of it, and then they, like, they just didn't mention the rest of what he was talking about, which is basically what what has God up to. Does has that man written a devotional? Hold on. Let me check. Does everybody write one? Adapted from doctor Jim Dennison's daily cultural commentary at denison forum dot org. He did he did a secular devotional. Good for him. What is what is a secular devotional other than news? That is indeed an everyday thing that you check and devote time to and energy and thoughts. You know, honestly, I've always kinda wanted to to write a devotional that actually was meaningful to people.

Oh, yeah. It seems like it take a lot of time. Yeah. I'd imagine. I mean, like, because if you're doing it similar like, it's a bit of a it's not long form like a sermon, but it's like the same it's a similar thought process, like dense. To it, which makes it that's that's what, almost the downfall almost all devotionals is they say, it'll be a forty day, and then they put a kitchen there. And then you gotta tie everything to this weird thing that you've said. You know? Like, like, the one I'm reading is about not talking. And so, like, the like and I think it I think what they're meaning is controlling your words and and whatever. And, like, I mean, the bible sums that up pretty well, and you drug it out for forty days with a bunch of weird stories. And then they cited the same bible verse all the time. And so, like, it's it's hard to write a devotional when you have to pick a topic. Mhmm. Although, you know, I I so

this is not this is not creative at all. But, like, I bet we could produce a legit devotional which contains like, you're right. So so, for example, let's say I'm gonna do a section on on your words. Right? I I might pick the the bible sections of the bible that I feel like appropriate, and then I'm gonna repeat it for five days. I'm gonna put this the same same thing on page three of that section as I did on page one because, like, reminder, this is what we're working on. Pray about this. Yeah. Like, I don't need to give you something new to think about. We're still thinking about this particular item right here. Yeah. And that's really what I need. Is that, like, I just need to keep hammering the same stuff over and over again to get my mind focused on it. Yeah. Because I mean, the thing that we're talking about is is is obedience to God's character and God's word. Right? And so, like, if you haven't nailed that thing, then you're probably still working on it. Yeah. So take anything that Jesus said and just pick one and go, am am I doing this? No. Well, today, I'm gonna do it. Then tomorrow, you check-in again. Did I nail it? No. I didn't. I'm gonna keep rocking this then until I get it done. Yeah. You know? I mean, there's a broad breadth of work to look through, and you just we we hop from one to another. You know? We're like, that I got this money thing straightened out, I guess I'm gonna do this. And guess what comes knocking a couple months later? Old money start starting at the door. Yeah.

And and it's the same thing all the time. And so I think that that's the thing is, like, to for a devotional to be helpful, you really do you kinda have to pick one subject, but you don't have to kitsch it out. You don't have to do weird things with it. You just need to keep repeating what we're doing, why we're doing it, what God's heart is on it, and let's pray on it. And here we go. Yeah. That that actually is always always seems difficult, like, like when you're

teaching through a section of the bible and you're like, oh, we're done. Where are gonna go to next? And, like, generally, we we talked through Mark, and my first inclination was, hey. Let's teach Mark again. Let's go back and do the whole thing over. Let's do, like, three times before we move on to something else. Because, like, I mean, yeah, you felt like you accomplished something. You're like, oh, I know Mark. I was like, I you know, no. But we're like, you could keep reading like, you if someone could hand out the gospel of Mark and that's all you get of scripture and I you'd be fine. I feel like you'd be fine. And, like, we bounce around, sometimes looking like, oh, hey, I I really wanna get to the part because I wanna learn about this thing. I'm like, well, there's enough character of god stuff in any given gospel that, like, if you can get that, it'll start answering your money questions. Yeah. And so, like, it is, and and you're right. Like, the devotional stretches even further and says, hey. How do I come up with extra stories and these kind of things to otherwise make this feel like it's new and different? Like, you know, I just kinda need the same thing written over and over again

every day. Alright. There was a there's an article Devotional.

This doesn't matter. Is that about Gunger? Yeah. Did you read that? No. Didn't isn't he the guy that said Noah was fictitious? Yes. He does believe Noah was fictitious. So, like, do I care about that? Is that a problem for me? I mean

yeah. I mean, Jesus said Noah's a real dude, so, I mean, that would be yeah. I mean, I I it's not worth going to the mats for, to be honest. Like, there's a there's a lot of that, like, biblical interpretation where, like, if we're saying we believe the bible is true,

and then there are I think there's smart people who love Jesus who have some interpretive lenses, especially when it comes to, like, creation and stuff like that, where, like, it's not worth me I'm just not gonna fight about it. I feel like the holy spirit will sort some of that stuff out as long as we're we're talking that, like, this is a true representation of the world. I mean, it'd be super awkward to get up to heaven. There's Noah standing right by the front door. Hey, Gunger. Remember me? Not a real man. This is Gunger, like, the musical artist? Yeah. Yeah. So he went

and he I listened to a few podcasts from him. I don't remember what it was called. But, yeah, he he went into, like, full atheism for a year

and is still on on the the very very liberal side of Christianity on the other side of it. It says, once popular Christian alternative rock musician Michael Gunger of the musical collective Gunger fully embraced atheism for a year according to his wife, Lisa. The rocker's wife also revealed in the July August issue of Relevant magazine that she's not sure how she would define her faith either after briefly declaring herself an atheist during her spiritual evolution. In a recently published book, The Most Beautiful Thing I've Seen, Lisa, who founded Bloom Church with her husband in Denver, Colorado in 2006,

discusses the evolution of their faith as a couple and how their questions about God and the Bible forced them out of the fundamental Christian space. She explained in an interview with BuzzFeed that her husband revealed his atheism shortly after she learned she was pregnant with her first daughter. They had been struggling to conceive at the time. Alisa told The Christian Post in an interview Friday that her husband fully embraced his atheism in 2012, but he has since found his way back to God. He says, we really went through this trial and this suffering and now we're getting this baby girl. Our ideas of God are still deconstructing. What is it that we still believe? Michael looks at me and says, I don't believe in God anymore. Like, I can't believe any of it. And he ends up talking more, and I remember just, like, freezing in my whole body because I was okay with the questions, but I wasn't okay with that.

She revealed to Relevant magazine that she never thought an atheist would look like her husband who was the son of a Puerto Rican protestant protestant pastor from the Bronx. I knew his struggle, she told Relevant. I knew the leaders who failed him. I clearly remember looking at Michael and saying, gosh, I thought an atheist would look different than this. I think there was this idea in my head that once you don't believe in God, now he's gonna cheat on me and murder people. I mean, that I mean, that seems a little bit of a caricature. I mean, I might. I mean, you know? I mean, all of creation was meant to reflect God's character, not necessarily cheat on you and murder people. Here's the deal.

I mean, I I feel like David believed in God and also cheated on people and murdered folks. Yeah. So I mean, it's just a weird it's a weird set of criteria. Alright. And he say, what is he gonna do? Have sex with everyone? And I was like, wow. He's still a great father. He's committed to me. His moral compass didn't break and disintegrate. The Gungers, who married Young, tried to get everything right as Christians. No pre medal sex. No drinking. No cussing. After working at a megachurch in Michigan together, they later began to change their perspective and no longer felt comfortable there. We all have this perspective on who was in and who was out. For Michael and I, that began to change slowly. You have to conform, and if you have doubts, you're a dangerous person. I mean, that's just not the bible.

Yeah. No, it's not. After many years in the church, Lisa realized later after a visit to the concentration camps in Europe that her perspective on faith had always been a transaction. If I'm good enough or if I pray enough or if I believe enough, then I get blessings and I get a baby or a good life. That's not how life is, also not how scripture reads. In 2014, Gunger rattled the Christian community when he revealed that he and Lisa, who are the faces of the musical collective,

don't literally believe in stories from the bible on topics such as creation, including Adam and Eve, and the flood, challenging orthodox Christian doctrine. The revelation drew the ire of many Christian fundamentalists who made Gunger songs like Dry Bones and Beautiful Things worship anthems. Those are great tunes, both of Yeah. They are. Lisa told Relevant that she once completely lost her faith during her period of questioning when one of her cousins was diagnosed with cancer, and her family prayed and declared the cousin had been healed. And so I get this call one day, and my cousin is healed, she said, noting that she was visiting Auschwitz, the infamous concentration camp in Poland at the time she got the call. And everyone's rejoicing and saying, praise God, crying. And I wanna do that and have that feeling because I missed that. I missed that rejoicing.

God has broken into the world and decided to heal someone, she said. Later on, however, Lisa got another phone call from another family member who said her cousin had not been exactly healed. Well, they said, he's partially healed. What the heck? I lost my mind, she said, like, what does that mean? Agreed. I went on a finely worded rant all in my head and with Michael. I was like, this is garbage. This whole idea is garbage. I said, don't believe any of this. I'm an atheist. I mean Now hold on. Almost every point that you've brought up is a failure of people on some level, on all levels.

People have created this thing that God didn't say it was gonna do or created this click that God didn't create or created this boundary system or or things about whatever, no cussing or you're out. I mean, like, these are all things that God did not create, enforce, or shove people in boxes with. And then you're like, someone called and lied to you. A person called to you and said, hey. Your cousin has been miraculously healed by God. And then another dude called and said, well, that didn't happen. The the first man's a liar. That's it. That's the thing you're mad at. Right. God's not a liar. Man a is a liar. Man a, total lie. Right.

This is tough to hear. And I I I I don't my guess is that this is this is not all that Uncommon? Uncommon. Yeah. Yeah. Like like, again, you set up an expect I mean, that that's this goes back to our the devotional commentary. Like, there's

things that we shouldn't like, we need to know more. Like, we need to to to have full perspectives on things, full stories. Right? So, like, that we don't take one one portion of something and and run with it and then say, god did not meet my expectations when your expectations, were outlandish or, like, they they like they they weren't principled in the truth is that has been revealed to us. And it's not that we don't have access to it. We simply just grabbed pieces of things Mhmm. And said, I've I believe this will happen at all times, and we took them out out of the places where they belonged, and we threw them into other areas. And then we got pissed that god was not acting in that way when, like, it wasn't the reality to begin with. And and, like, that is like, there's a there's a danger in,

in being only a recipient of of people talking to you and not taking some level of responsibility of reading things yourself and writing things by scripture and say, hey. Hey. The guy's totally healed. And I think myself, totally possible. Sounds fantastic. And they said, oh, he was only partially healed. I say, well, I mean, that seems, totally realistic and also fantastic and, not surprised. Yeah. And, Ted wasn't healed at all. Yeah. I understand that. Doesn't happen to everybody. Right? Like, these things are they're not they're not gonna throw my faith one way or the other because, realistically, I don't see millions of people being healed. I see groups of people and individuals at times, but, like, it's not everybody. And so I I'm not surprised, and it doesn't cause me to rethink anything about my faith because I knew better.

Yeah. It says, Lisa, whose second daughter has Down syndrome, explained, however, that her atheism lasted for only a day, and she's not quite sure how she defines her faith now. I think labels and definitions can be good and helpful sometimes, she said. But if there's anything I've learned about having a child labeled as Down syndrome, it's that labels are reductive. You can look at at our life and the way that we're living and if you think that's against the way of Jesus and love, okay, that's your perspective.

My perspective is I'm trying to live in the way of love and in the way of Jesus the best I know how. I know I don't have it alright, but I love the way of Jesus. I don't have a definition for that. So she was an atheist for a day. Wouldn't that just be like, I kinda struggled for a day? Yeah. It's it's weird to call it that. Right? Like, it's weird to call it It's been kinda sensational. Yeah. Like Well, I was an atheist. Yeah. Look. Hey. I was really I mean, people go through the the times. Right? You gotta you're digesting a fallen world and they're like, where's

how do I understand god in this perspective? Mhmm. Like, he gets that. And so to say, look, I was completely out. I mean, out. There is no god for a day. I was foolish and was angry at god. Yeah. People do that. Like a like a teenage girl who's like, you're not my father. Yeah. Yeah. Like, well, I mean, you say whatever you want. I was homeless for a day. I was an orphan for a day. Yeah. It's like, no. No. You really weren't. That's right. The reality was you weren't and you weren't an atheist. Interesting. It says, I love the way of Jesus. I don't have a definition for that. Like, I I I get what we're talking about when she's talking about labels.

I mean, the way of Jesus is is well documented. In fact, there can be only one way of Jesus, and that is from the documentation. Past that, it might be a way of something, but you can't call it a way of Jesus because you wouldn't know you weren't there. And the only thing that we have is the biblical record. And so I feel I feel like the the way of Jesus doesn't lack definition. It is it is defined.

I know. I mean, there's there's things that happen in our world that didn't happen in his that, like, require some extrapolation. But, like, I think there is a sense on kind of the liberal side of Christianity. Like, conservative

ultra conservative Christianity does wanna put labels on things because it makes their lives easier. They get to call balls and strikes. The more liberal sides of Christianity wants to make things sound greater than they are. Mhmm. As if there's, like, there's,

there's kind of an ethereal, notion of a Jesus beyond the scriptural record. But, like, when we move beyond that, we need at least be honest to saying we're actually not talking about Jesus from historical perspective anymore. We're talking about some kind of concept of what you want to legitimize, and so you say it is Jesus. That way, it doesn't look like you're worshiping yourself or your ideas or whatever it you think is important, above

other things. And, like, that it's just that's just dishonest. It would be dishonest to me to say I follow Jesus and and really say, I follow me but I I I kinda say, I feel like Jesus would do that just so people don't look at me poorly for saying I follow me instead of Jesus. Yeah. But that's and that's kind of that's the risk, guess. So if you're listening to me, liberal Christian, that is the risk of that thought process. You need to at least be honest about what you're doing and be be clear that, like, if you may not actually be following Jesus, if you have to define it like, oh, it feels like Jesus, but, like, you can't marry it up with anything that we know historically of Jesus himself.

Let's see. She you further told BuzzFeed that she isn't interested in going back to her former life as a conservative. I don't want what we used to have. We live in a different headspace now. It's a completely different perspective and the connection I feel with my daughters there is no us versus them. There's no you and I. There's no winners and losers. Part of my dream is that people wouldn't be so scared and afraid. I know a lot of people are still in this very conservative fundamental bubble and they can be so afraid to break out of that fear of what will happen to their lives and this happens in any religion, she said. That's it. Boy,

I'm a simple man, Ben. I don't know how to I just, I mean, people say I'm living in a different headspace now, and I'm like, I don't know what that is. I don't even know how to get there or whatever or what happens there. I mean, you know, there is something, I I think I don't wanna say ultra conservatism because I I feel like they got a bad rap. Like, conserving

things that are otherwise true shouldn't have a bad rap. So protecting true things shouldn't have a bad rap. That's goofy. I think the same risk existed. It was executed a different way where, people overcranked on, certain things. Like, just just as you might might say,

I might say there's liberal sections of Christianity that, like, pull the things that they like and they teach on those things, they ignore some of the rest. The folks who have been labeled as ultra conservative fundamentalist did the same thing. Like, they picked out things that they weren't generally guilty of or at least you couldn't see publicly, and they accused other people of it, and they really rammed on those. And they they also missed a full perspective. And so regardless of which, extreme that you are on,

choosing only bits of the scripture and pulling them out of context or not telling complete stories wrecks people. And, like, you will have a reaction of which, like, when you get beat up by slot a and then now you take the false thing of slot b, which is generally everything that wasn't in slot a. Like, everything that you got beat up with on on on this side, you reject, and then you take the other things that are kinda left that that you really didn't get enough of to balance out there or get the right context for the stuff that on the fundamentalist side. And then now you worship that that stuff, on the liberal side, and then you miss out on the true things that actually give provide right boundaries, definition for who you are, who God is, what that means for what he's done, and what that means for who you are and what you do. And so, like, don't don't

it's this is not a a liberal or a fundamentalist Christianity thing. It is a not taking in the full counsel of a wise and loving god thing. And and just know that, like, it doesn't end with their rejection of it. It it creates the opposite problem on the other side, which will perpetuate itself and soak up, you know, forty years of somebody's life chasing it back and forth.

Man, that's a weird article. Yeah. I fully embraced atheism for a year. I mean, maybe you did. I don't know. How do you embrace nothing? What was that guy? Did we remember the CNN guy? The professor who's like, hey, I'm I wanna try to be an atheist?

Do you remember that guy? No. Like a preacher, wasn't he? Yeah. Or or like a I remember. Something college guy. I I don't I don't remember what was. It's like was just gonna give it a shot. And and, like, I I remember talking about then. We're like, I I don't even know how do you how do you give it a shot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you can do that if you say

this is just a moral teaching, so I'll stop or or just a a a series of actions. I'll stop going to the church, and I will stop you know, I I won't it doesn't matter if I swear or, have sex with a bunch of people. But, like, that's actually no morality at all. That's not even a rejection of Christianity. That's just like I'm gonna be a a barbarian. And so, like, I don't know I don't know how that ends up happening or, like, what it means.

Yeah. I was Boy, I don't remember what hell I don't remember what the article was. I wish I could find it. It doesn't matter. No. Probably not. Okay.

Alright. That was it, Mike. That's that's all the articles I got. I'm ready. Okay. You ready? Yeah. Dear live from the past. My mom owns two successful women's clothing stores near my hometown that she's had for more than ten years. Problem is, she named them after me, and I hate it. I've tried to talking to her about it many times, but every time I bring it up, she gets sarcastic, says things like, this is a fun conversation, and doesn't let me get a word out. I have tried talking to the rest of my family about it, but they don't consider it a big deal and tell me I'm being ridiculous.

I've run out of ideas about what to do. So if you'd give me some advice, it would really help. Give it up. Yep. Call call up Wendy and, see how the whole Wendy's restaurant thing. Yeah. I mean, is it your full name? Yeah. I don't know. Like, it is it the Ben Foust clothing

store, or is it like Ben's? Mindy's. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, if it's if it's Mindy's, I mean, let it go.

Let it go. What does it matter to you? She's lying. Everyone knows her. I mean, do they? Is this a problem? I mean, that's not fair. I go past the, I go past the bar all the time called Luke's, and I'm not accusing every Luke I ever met as being the guy that owns it. That's your bar, Luke. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Nice roofing material, stupid.

Yeah. I think she just needs to kind of, mature a little bit and say, you know what? It's, that's my mama's business. You know? That's that's what it is. I mean Well, this is a fun conversation. Yeah. Boy, I mean, I don't know how to you're just right. It's not it's not any plainer than you're you're significantly overreacting, and you need to let it go. And everyone else doesn't care. They simply don't care. It means nothing to them. No. Yeah. The rest of your family doesn't care. Your mom doesn't care. What's she gonna do? Change your business to what? Yeah. The community doesn't care. They're not thinking higher or lower of her because

of that store's name. They might may not even know. Yeah. I she really comes off as just an angry 15 year old girl, you know, that wants to be mad about something. My mom runs her own two successful businesses, named them after me. What a terrible decision. You jerk, ma. Boy, maybe I'll be be more, I'll be more gracious to maybe I'll run into a guy named Culver and be like, sorry, dude. Yeah. Didn't realize this has been so difficult on you. Hey. Is your son the Burger King?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get yeah. Get over it. Okay. Secular says, many daughters would consider what your mother did to be a compliment. However, because it bothers you so much, consider going by your middle name. And if that doesn't satisfy you and you feel strongly enough about this, go to court and legally change your name to another one you like when you reach adulthood. Seriously, though, is it the full name? It cannot it cannot be the full name. I mean, here's the thing. It's like people are not just defined by their first name.

They're further defined by their first and last name and mostly defined by their first first name, last name, and whatever story of their life. And so, like, I there's, like, five bike foos in the country as far as I know. One of them is a garbage manager man for the met Metro Waste in Wisconsin. Right? But people know the difference between Mike Foose from Wisconsin and Mike Foose from here because of the different way we lived our life. And so, like, this name of the store is not defining you for who you are. It's not giving away any secrets or your or bath time photos when you were three. It's doing nothing. It's literally doing nothing. It's two names on top of a sign.

Yeah. I'm impressed with Secular. I kinda threw it back in her ball the ball back in her court, though. Hey. If you don't like it that much, change your name. I mean, that's true. Like, quit harassing other people and do okay. Mean, that's that's true. I mean, it's her business. It just seems outrageous. Yeah. Yeah. I changed my name because my mom named a store after me.

I showed her. Yeah. Now who's Margaret? Yeah. I'm sticking with that. She's gonna give it up. You gotta give it up. K. Here's the thing. I feel like if she changes her name, it provides like, it somehow validates that this is right thought. It's not. And so, like,

I I don't Do you think the mom would be offended? Would you let me ask you this. Would you be offended if one of your kids changed their name? Yeah. I picked that name out. And be like, don't I said it was good. That's how the lord feels all the time. I said this was good, and you guys are like, no. This is not good. I'm gonna do this other thing. I'm gonna know this my own way. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, I don't know.

I don't know, Dan. What do you think? You'd be upset if one of your girls changed their names? I I I say no, but probably deep inside, I'd be like, hey. What's wrong with that? I thought it was really good. Kinda like it. What the heck would they pick even? My name is Balloon or Bubbles. I mean, I've I've always liked Santos. Just I mean, what do you mean you've always liked it?

Oh, man. Like, would you You know what? Thought my mom did that. Oh, really? Alright. Sure. Okay. Her Bernice was her name. Her family always called her Bernice. When I was born, she went by Peggy. Really? Like, she so there was a whole group of people for, like, twenty years who only knew her as Peggy. Was that her middle name or did she No. It's just some name she liked. I'll I'll go with Peggy. Yeah. Her middle name is Leona.

I mean, here's the thing that is bold. You know, it's not like you have to do it on paper, like, to the government, you're you're Bernice. But as far as everyone else is concerned, you're Peggy. I mean, what's the problem? Yeah. I mean I'm a try to get people call me Santos starting tomorrow. Yeah. That's a cool name. Yeah. You should be Fuster. Santos Fuster. Santos Fuster. That's a cool name. Alright. Alright. Here we go. Last one. Your life from the path, I live in a duplex, and my neighbor has a cat. I'll call him Sox. Oh, this That's positive for feline immunodeficiency virus, FIV.

I'm a cat lover with a kitty of my own. To prevent the spread of infection, FIV cats are never supposed to be allowed outside, but my neighbor lets Sox come and go as he pleases. Live from the path, he comes to our house and uses our cat door to access our cat food or water bowl. Oh, man. I know socks is at times left without food and water, so I'm reluctant to restrict his access to our food. But my cat has picked up respiratory infections because socks contaminated the bowl. I also have to get my cat tested for FIV during his annual exams at an added cost of $60. My question,

would it be fair of me to request that my neighbor pay for some or all of the extra expenses associated with the treatment and testing due to the FIV exposure? I have asked if she could offer socks my brand of kibble at her house so he'll be less interested in coming to our house unless he really needs food or water. She refused. I'm not sure if I'm asking too much or if I should expect her to work with me to help offset the cost of her free roaming FIV infected cat. Signed,

dude. Oh, I didn't I didn't see that coming. Hold on. One of his one of his counterarguments here was, hey. You should switch to kittens and bits like I'm using, so that way your cat won't come over and try to eat my kittens and bits. And then he goes, she refused.

So I mean, can you imagine your someone coming over from for like, your neighbor stopped by your place and saying, look, I don't like to get the the brand of cat food you're using for your cat. I think you should switch to the one I have. The guy goes, get the heck out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he

needs to stop feeding her or or whatever the the neighbor's cat. I mean, yeah. Can you lock the cat? I mean, I suppose if you, like, block the cat door, though, then your cat can't get out. But, like, that's probably the safest. Let your cat out of the door. Open the door and let the cat out. I mean, does your cat really have to come and go as he pleases like it's an all night gelato shop? I mean, open the door. The cats figure it out. They'll stand by the door. You open it. They go out. They come back when they're done. I mean, you put that cat door in for your convenience. Because of your lack of security at your house, then an AIDS cat come into your house and spreads respiratory illness as far as you're concerned. So whatever.

Port up the port up the cat door and let your cat out manually, if that's what you're worried about. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. That's true. Like, just because you wanna, live in a house where you can leave the doors locks unlocked and the windows open all the time doesn't mean that that's actually a viable way to live. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanna I wanna have, I wanna wear a sheer robe and strut by the beach every morning, but I don't live in Morocco. So, I mean, I can give it a shot all I want to, but, like, it's just not gonna happen here. Right. So I you're living in a false reality, friend. And and now granted, he's gonna say, well, I have the right to have a free roaming cat door to let my cat in and out, and that guy has the right to let his infected cat roam the neighborhood. And so you you're at a crossroads. You're either gonna have to do something practical or you can battle this weird ethereal question that you're never gonna you're never gonna win.

I mean, you could call the you could call animal control on a on a wandering cat if you want. I mean, if you wanted to, you'd be like, hey, man. This thing's not staying within its boundaries. It's it's because, like, most cities actually don't allow cats just to wander around. Yeah. But we should. They spread the disease, Mike. No. If you don't have a cat door, I ain't got no FIV at my place. I've had a couple pregnant cats.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Alright. Yeah. What was the secular advice? K. Secular says, under the circumstances, I don't think it's unfair to ask your irresponsible neighbor to cooperate with you on this.

On the food thing? Yeah. Good luck on that. Hey. Will you the medical bills? Yeah. Exactly. I can't imagine your ain't no neighbor gonna take that well. No. Here we go. However, if she wouldn't spring for something as simple as the kibble, don't hold your breath. The solution to your problem is to make Sox's access to your home impossible by securing the cat door. Right on. And if her cat is mingling with the possibly infected other cats in the neighborhood, call animal control and report it. I mean, the last two paragraphs were solid. The first one about trying to some kind of mea culpa with the neighbor on getting cash for the for the vet visits. I mean, you you you get a punch in the face. Yeah. Don't you know anybody? Do you have any friends? Have you been out in humanity in the last ten years? You can't just call up a guy and be like, I think you should split the kibble and and medicine bill for my cat because your cat robs over my place. You've lost your mind. Alright. You've been listening to live from the Path. Thank you for hanging out with us this week. We really do appreciate it. I'm a work on that voice mail so you can harass the show during the week. Yeah. We will see you next time. In the meantime, be faithful, Amines. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live

From The Path.