Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path. And you're listening to live from the Pathway Studios

here in Johnston Premer. This is Mike. It's nice to meet you. Hey. Okay. So I don't have any friends, Ben. No. No. Yeah. That's not my You're lying from the past. Not my problem. I don't have any friends. I'm your friend? No. No. Oh. Yeah. This is this is awkward. Aren't you in, like okay. I used to think you were my friend. Apparently not. This is awkward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. So okay. Here's what we got going on the show tonight. Hey. So I got some bad news, boys. What?

Mike, did you stop anywhere on the way into the show tonight? I did not know. So the quick trip down the line. Down the so if you're the the the we broadcast here in Johnston. Yeah. Yeah. You get off the interstate at the Myrtlehaven exit. You could, you head north like you're gonna go into the where we're gonna broadcast, and there's a quick trip right there. Yeah. I mean, this has been my my this has been my place. It's been a go to place. I love it there. They they got they got roller dogs on the on the hilt. They got a fast, debit machine. Right? So, like, when you go to pay for your goods, they don't even bother running a debit anymore. You just put the card in. It runs it automatically. Credit takes, like, two seconds. Yeah. They don't even care. They don't ask you to confirm the total. They don't ask you if you want money back. They don't ask you if you have a rewards program. It's pretty quick living. Damn. It's out. They got to be honest, it's hard to find a place to brew that has decaf on the brew this late at night. Mhmm. They always got it. They got decaf ready to go. Alright. So what's the bad news?

It's open for one more day. What? It's as of tomorrow. 02:18 is the last day, and it's closed, that's it. Oh, are It's gonna be something else, though. Is it it's gonna be another I thought it might be a quick start. Yeah. Quick start. That's it. Oh, okay. Really? Here's the deal. We're back in business, Quick start is straight up alright. Yes. They are. Yeah. It's a good joint. But but I will say that, I mean, I many a night, either I've spent inside the QuickTrip or, like, we've run into folks outside the QuickTrip, and or we've been talking outside the QuickTrip. Like, it's anyway, it was a good joint. And and I'll tell you this about the QuickTrip. I don't know I don't know how close you are to gas stations, but I would say this, that QuickTrip was the was the first in line of the next generation of gas stations. They were the first guys to put to fully light the place. Everyone else is trying to get away with yellow lights or, like, two or three lights in the parking lot. QuikTrip went, lights ablazing, the city is up. Mhmm. K? Now everybody's doing it. Everybody's on tap for it

except for Get and Go. Get and Go refuses to to reel it. Know how Get and Go is still a business. They are the worst guest they've ever. Three types of candy and one soda, and that's all that's in that store. I'm pretty sure their home office is Bogota. Like, the only way that they're open Hey. They're in Colombia. Here's the steal. Manually put in the prices. Yeah. They don't even have a scanner. They type in the prices every time. And they still tag them. When when little Debbie shows up delivering her goods, they go They get the crew. Yeah. They do have the orange paper that stickers onto it. Even like the one in Ankeny? Yes. Yes. Everyone. That's like a new one. Yeah. They've they've built brand new get and go's, and they still don't have a scanner. They still manually type in all the prices. That's because Bertha's in charge of that part of the, corporation. They built a new building and then put employees from 1984 into it. And they only Okay. Staff 84. One guy

in most get and goes. And so, like, when he has to poop, he writes a note. The guy that I get in Bondurant is super honest. He's like, I gotta poop. Be back in five minutes. Leaves a note right on the thing, and there you stand and wait till he's done in the number two area. That and most of the time, the guy who works there is the Get and Go's best customer. Yeah. It's the guy who buys the most cigarettes from the place, the guy who takes all the lighters, and then every single one of the, like, the the weird cigarillos that everybody knows what they do with it. That's right. Air fresheners and bush lights. Yep. That's it. That's the guy. Hey. I'm Ted. I'm missing out a big part of life. No. Actually, no. You're No. You're keeping a lot more money in your wallet is what you Yeah. So so anyway, I will say this to to I I think that the world has moved on without them. Everyone's picking up. But to my to my to my dollar, Quick Trip was the first to to get this thing right. Like, they they went fast, convenient. They did well lit,

decent bathroom, places generally well stocked. All and and and the first to try to start creating a lot of their own goods. Yeah. And now, again, Casey's Casey's is is monopolizing high you got to Hy Vee gas. And then Quickstar I mean, Quickstar is out of this world. It's a fantastic organization. Know how they do it. No. Don't either. Confuse me. They're good. Like, is there eight people on staff all the time? Right. And, like, four of them are in the kitchen, and they'll bring you out exactly what you wanted. If they see you go for it and it's out, they'll, like, pop their head out and just be like, hey, man. I got that coming. It'll be two minutes. Feel the cheesesteak? Hang on. Yeah. Yeah. I kinda don't like the QuickStar, though. Why, Dan? Dan, you should leave. I I should. Here's the deal. They've hurt me. What? They hurt me bad. How did they hurt you? What was it? X o two zero four, I believe it is? I I had a whole series of gumball machines there,

and it was a good one. It was it was it was worth the drive just to get those gumballs. Yeah. It was good. And one day they called and said, hey. We want these out. I'm like, okay. And when I showed up, someone had thrown them away. Oh, no. Yeah. I bet there's no recourse as a gumball man. Say, look. You owe me you owe me a $150. Talk to our corporate lawyer. Okay. Boy, I bet he would out school you pretty fast. Yeah. This is Dan, the gumball guy? And this is like I mean, there's a whole hallway that was filled with with all kinds of stuff and machines and stuff, and and they just decided to get rid of everything. Little little boy me, I was one of them.

Boy, that's too bad actually. Man. Mean it doesn't sour me on the quick star. Unfortunately. Mean you were done wrong. That's certainly true. They owe me money. Okay. I'm I'm gonna get some gas and run off. Did you? I'll show them. Alright. I could do that at Get and Go. They probably don't have video for No. They don't. No. There's guy out there with a Yeah. There's just a dude that stands out by the gas, and he's got a piece of paper and a And if he he if he by chance catches your license plate, then in a couple of months, they'll call you. I'll leave by a note after I drive off and say, see Quickstar. Yeah. Exactly. You're gonna start some weird gang war between the oldest and worst gas station and possibly the new newfangled cool people. I'm pretty so I I went in in in Minneapolis, the Quickstar is called the QuickTrip. Mhmm. But it was with K's.

And so I drive to Minneapolis all the time. I ended up stopping this QuickTrip to get gas, and they they were having a special on their donuts. And I'd never had a a a donut at the Quickstar, but they had like a dozen or six doughnuts for, like, 99¢. Yeah. Some kind of gangbuster special. Yeah. Absolutely. So I pick it up, and I'm like, I'm have one of these doughnuts. That's box. One of them is like 80¢, so I thought I should get that. I ate all six doughnuts. Absolutely. Before I got home. Yeah. The Dunkers. That was a mistake. But they were really good. Really good. Hey, man. I was in Eastern Indiana, like, five and a half hours ago, and I went to a place called Speedway. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Station out there. That place is terrifying.

Yeah. That was that was a worse version of the get go. Oh, really? It's like a Valero. Valero's rough. Oh my gosh. Isn't there only one of those left in Des Moines? Yeah. I think it's randomly go through and put in, like, yellow shades in the lights just to add it to more it looks like you just got on parole. Right? Like, you you get out to get gas, and you're just you're just on fresh on parole, and you're hanging around all your old friends. That's what Valero feels like. Oh, that's the truth. I don't even know about this place. I didn't even know it was Valero. I I didn't know it was open and running when I went past there, and it was almost out of gas and went in there the one time in my entire life, and I was like, I think I'd rather run out of gas. Yeah. Yeah. Where is that? The there's a Valero still, I think, over on the East Side. Yeah. There's one in Easton. Yeah. Easton. That's exactly what it is. Over over in Easton by the old Kmart. Yep. It's where they have, like, the Just down the street from the Kmart. The the non packaged beef jerky box. You you know? Where where you lift open the lid and take the jerky out of it. It's like, oh, I'm sorry. Whose meth head's hand's been in there? Like, that's terrifying. I don't I'm gonna contract all the hips from just putting my hand in there and grabbing the meat stick. Yeah. So it's a terrible decision. I didn't realize we must be at the height of cold and flu season. Right? I tried to this lady I was I was talking to today, I had to fill out this form, and she gave me the piece of paper, and she had a pin in her hand. You know? So I take the piece of paper, and I try to grab the pin out of her hand, and she won't let it go. And I thought, maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe I put the girly arm on it, and I gotta regrab at it. So I go back after it. She goes, oh, you'll be using your own pin. It's the height of cold and flu season. Oh. I'm like, oh. Well, that was embarrassing. That is stricter. Excuse me. Can I get that pin? Absolutely not. No. You can't. You walking cess pool. This is even better. So they give me a they give me a security badge to be at this place. You know? And I go through this whole rigmarole. It takes, like, a forty five minutes an hour. And I get the badge, and and I say, okay. This badge will open doors. Right? I just need to be able to get these couple places. She goes, oh, yeah. It it'll work, but it won't work until you get your flu sticker on there, your cold and flu sticker. Or that said you had a flu shot for this year. I'm like, the what? Yeah. The the flu sticker. It has to be on there. Otherwise, the card won't work. I go, what kind of fancy sticker is this? Like, has it got biometrics in it? Like, magnetic sticker?

And so she shows me an example. It's a regular sticker. So I don't know whether she's been lied to or she's lying to me, but that sticker doesn't do nothing. You know? You gotta be dumb in the box of rocks to believe that just a regular sticker is gonna make something work. Yeah. So being When you're a kid, a sticker does magic. I totally should have put, like, a gold star on the back of it. Be like, I got a sticker now. I totally bypassed the sticker. I went right back to what I was doing, and I was able to get indoors, and I thought, I ain't go to no sticker lady. Nope. Nope. That's phenomenal. Alright. So here's here's here's what I heard this week. There there was listening to a to a podcast, and I don't catch a lot, but there was there was an interview with Derek Webb. Do guys do you guys remember who that is? He was this He was the guy that was that that he's renounced Christianity. Right? He was a he was a Christian music guy. Right? That's right. That's right. Yeah. He was a Christian dude. He was in Caden's call, and then he was and, like, there was a lot of his music that I that I really liked. And he's one of those guys who felt like he could talk about the church honestly. Now, here's the risk. Every time you find a guy who feels like he could talk about the church honestly, I'd say half them guys end up bailing on the church because they can't handle there's a power in saying, hey, man. We're not doing this well. Even if you're right, you become self aggrandized, a prophet in your own eyes. Right? And so

whatever happens to this dude, it like, he ends up getting getting divorced, and then, again, with I don't I don't know the man, but either as part of that or an outfall of that, whatever, he he ultimately leaves the Christian faith. He calls it deconstruction. Like, losing the the the all the all the faith and stuff that you build out up over time, you've constructed into a way that you deal with the world and your the the way that you see things, and deconstruction is trying to basically get rid of all those things that have piled on top of you to get down to the real you. False premise. Right? Like the real you can't believe in the Lord. But in either case, it's it's it's that that's kind of the deal. So anyway, I I was listening to he did an interview with a group of folks who who are basically in the same bucket. They're all deconstruction folks. And there were some interesting things that he was talking about that I thought I I I'm interested to hear what you guys think because one of the things that he comes off as is,

excuse me, is super enlightened because his basic deal is he'll say, look. I don't I don't care if you're a Christian. I do I mean, what would I care? I don't you know, if if if that's what you believe and that changes and it makes a difference in the world and what causes you to do otherwise good things, why would I care that you're a Christian? He goes, I I don't have one of the things that he says he's given up is is really just certainty. So, like, I'm willing to believe things, I I I just he he feels like he won't ever have certainty

again on on on either faith related things or a lot of a lot of different stuff. And so what that kinda sounded like, if you guys remember some of the the stuff that we've seen from the Barna Group on, like, the rise of the nuns, this actually of, like, people who don't have a religious affiliation, this seems a little bit different to me because it's it's a it's a sense of a spirituality, but it's not one. It's totally undefined.

And it's and it sounds super agreeable, super libertarian. Right? I I don't what you think. That's that's totally fine as long as it's not harming anybody else. Like, we're totally cool with this. And so so my my question is to this is,

one, I I think it's answerable, but I'm interested what you guys think. But secondly, what what is the impact? What are the what are the earthly consequences of someone going, being spiritually libertarian? Saying, look, I I don't care what it what what you believe. I'm open to it. I'm cool if you're cool.

What what what it seems to me that there's earthly consequences to that even if I remove their personal salvation or something like that. So, like, I I don't know. What do you react to when you hear something like that? I mean, broad strokes would be and and, of course, this is coming from our worldview. Right? But, like, if I believe that there's a creator god who made the world to run-in a certain way or or knows the way that it run best,

and then I say, I don't care whether you participate in god's design for the world, then I'm basically saying, I don't care that this world runs best. And frankly, that there is even a best. Right? Like, what

kind of we don't have a moral authority to agree on. Then mean, it really is to say like, it seems like someone would be lax about that if if, like, hey, I don't care if you're a Hindu or a Buddhist, but what if you're a Hindu who murders people? Now I kind of care. Right? Like, what if what if I say, I don't care if you're an extreme extreme Islamist. Islamist. Right? Right? Like, Like, who who terrorizes terrorizes people? People? You act like it's like it's okay as long as people are still within don't a certain reasonable bounds that is commonly accepted. Right? Like, if we're not killing each other, if we're not promoting stealing from each other, or, it's okay to make yourself better than somebody else as long as you don't actually hurt the person or whatever. So, like, it's easy to say that as long as it's backed up by the context that it's still within this set of boundaries

that we're going to accept. Right? Because put on its true face that says, I don't really care what you believe. If you're cool, I'm cool. So your, quote, religion or whatever believes that it's okay to just take whatever you want, have 17 wives, even four of them don't belong to you, and then kill a guy. And so you don't actually believe that. You're you're sacrificing all reasonable thought and reasonable morality because you want to be enlightened.

Right? And and I don't think you can have that both ways. You can't have the assumed fence. The fence is kind of drawn from the creator. We have the fence at all because the creator instituted the the fence when he created it. Right? And so, like, yeah, we've strayed from it to various degrees as the world has gotten has aged, but most of that morale the moral fence that exists

is because God put a thin black line in the middle in the first place. And so without that at all, I find it really hard for you to say that you can, just accept what everybody else is doing, because they're still operating within those guidelines. Yeah. I I I It's it's difficult to

bail on this this objective. Let's just Here's the thing. To bail an objective, you're ultimately bailing an objective truth Because to just say, well, you believe what you believe and I will be believe what I will believe implies that my belief never expresses itself in some form of reality. Right? Like you say, oh, like, what do you do? An article I shared with the fellows this week, week, because I I thought it was kinda cool. Francis Chan was in

Myanmar. Myanmar. Right? And he he said there were people he was there to to to talk to people about Jesus, and there were people that were healed, like, children that were healed and, like, multiple that were healed by his touch, laying his hand on and praying. And this is Francis Chan. It's not like he's been unsuccessful or that you wouldn't say, the man appears to living a faithful life to Jesus. And he goes, this is the first time I've ever even seen anything like this. Never happened in my life. Right? Fifty fifty two years old. Right. So so here's the thing. Take that for what it is, but there are people there's a blind kid in Myanmar who's no longer blind. What Francis Chan believes about Jesus Christ has an objective reality to it. Mhmm. What happened with that kid? I used to I thought I was driving. I was thinking about that story yesterday. I almost called the newspaper. That seems like a nineteen sixties thing to do. But, like but but what I thought was is I was gonna pose as someone who was outraged that he was telling these falsehoods so that they would go investigate it and come back and go, we have no explanation for this. I thought that would be fantastic because it's it's this type of thing that, like, when we talk about the conversations about the reality of of of Jesus and the nature of faith,

these types of things are happening. And, like, that's a be a heck of a story for someone to go investigate and go, look, man. I tried to disprove this thing. The freaking kid was blind. He's no longer blind. And the only thing that we know happened was a man who loves and serves Jesus has has no no inkling of going there for riches or whatever, and the situation changed. And so the point being is when we take our hands off and say, oh, I don't care if you believe in your fake god as long as I can believe in my fake god, but the thing that I believe has an objective reality. Right. And so you can't just dismiss that as if it's just a matter of personal preference. And the truth is is that when people are representing that, like, I'm cool. I I I live on a bucket of maybes. I don't live on any certainty. I'm like, well, what the heck, man? I think you're being disingenuous. How does that make your wife feel? Yeah. I love you. I mean, maybe. I don't like to get into this certainty bucket. You don't need to love me. Oh, right. Right. Like and and so here's the thing. You are certain about some things. There are some things in which you feel very strongly of which would cause you to react in one way or another, to defend something one way or another. Like, it's it it it's just in the nature of the conversation about God. I am okay. I'm okay with with an I don't know

because I think Jesus is cool with someone seeking, someone searching for that information. But, like, there there's a there's an implicit judgment, especially when someone leaves Christianity and looks at this and goes, oh, you've you fools have been been clumped into this for so long,

and I've deconstructed the thing. And and I get it. Like, just because you don't act that way like, there is a there's a piousness when when when people leave the faith and they look back, but your their piety is in their own their own belief system. Right? That like, oh, at least I'm not caught up believing that same thing that you people still believe. Even if it produces good things in your life, I'm glad about that, but boy, it doesn't take that for me. And so you still believe in something. It's just your moral system is guided by you. You're just not submitting to something bigger. You're like, well, I won't be controlled by this particular set of mores or laws or whatever anymore. Right. And so if it's just, as long as I feel like you're just, and generally where people end up is like, long as you're not harming another human. I mean, gray area, bud. Think of all I mean, people totally misinterpret what it is to harm another person. The the standard of of Jesus is pretty high. Most other religions are pretty iffy,

what I would consider on how you're able to treat other people. There's nothing that's that talks about the levels of forgiveness and self sacrifice and humility than Christianity. And so here, if it's wrong, then I'm okay with it being objectively wrong. I've not seen it. But but I I think you just it's just disingenuous to act like what we believe can be totally disassociated from objective reality. I it is not a fact. It's just not true.

So so when I was a kid, my parents used to make milk toast. And that's probably from them being like depression era people. Yeah. And so they would make toast and then they'd rip it into little pieces, put it in a bowl. They'd heat up milk, warm milk, and they'd pour warm milk over it, little sugar over it. And

I'd take a couple bites, and it was actually kinda kinda tasty. It was good. I mean, it's, you know, sugar bread. Right? And so when when the bread was still a little bit crispy, you know, so for about forty five seconds, there there is it was it was kinda kinda fun. But after that, it's just a big

bowl of slime with little lumps in it where it's not all been slime ized. Yeah. Gross. I think that that that's what this guy lives. That that's where he lives, in in in that bowl of slime. He just had tall toast. Yeah. What? The slimy milk toast. The slimy milk toast. Because, I mean, although it was fun once in while as a kid, like, I I I sometimes I want a french fry or or I want something crispy or I want, you know, an onion ring or a steak or something. And if you're these guys are living in the milk toast. That's all they it's like, oh, yeah. Whatever. It's all just gushy. Yeah. And that gets gross really quick. I I couldn't live there. You know, I I I was actually thinking about that when you were bringing it up is is do you think that the nones, the the segment of people that have said, I just don't none. I don't know. You know, I'm I just have no idea. I'm not associating with any of this. Do you think some of that comes from the multiple sources of what people get information anymore and their their mistrust

of where it's coming from? Like, the church has just become swept up in a in what is a normal problem for us because, like, I can tell you right now, I don't have one news source that I trust. I think they all screwed with me. I don't think anybody's actually telling me the truth or or at least the whole story. Right? Like, they'll give me, like, 75% and then leave 25% out to let it go either way that they wanted it to go. Right? And so, like, just as being a organization that passes information, is it possible that, like, everybody's skeptical of everything that they hear anymore because they're assuming you have an angle. Right? They know that walking in, if someone were coming to your church, they know that your angle is to get them to come with you. Right? And, like, so they automatically mistrust the fact that you have an angle. And so, like, the deconstructionist guys are are are are looking to for for a plateau to take on other nuns and go, I don't have an angle. I don't need an angle. I'm not asking you to do anything or go anywhere.

So it but the thing is is, like, the deconstruction like, that thought process there, people who don't have an angle don't give a crap about you. You know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, that is the definition of a bad parent. Yeah. I I don't know. I don't have to teach you to do anything. I'm not worried whether you do well in school. I'm not worried whether you're where you have good manners or whether you follow Jesus or whether you tell lies. You just kinda do whatever you want. I'll be okay if you're okay. You're a terrible parent, and and you're also a terrible human being. If you don't care enough about somebody to make sure that they're done not doing something wrong or stupid, then you're living a completely intrinsic lifestyle. Right? And maybe that's the downfall. Right? Like, if if if if everybody's okay, as long as they're not bothering me and I'm not bothering you, that basically shows a legitimate I don't give a crap about you. Hey, man. And and if I'm to believe

most of what I see coming either out of social media, even even modern news outlets, especially around sociology and psychology. Freaking no one is under the impression that they're okay. And so your live and let live type of business where it says, well, I've got my moral high ground here, and I assume that you got your ship under control. As a matter of fact, that is the that's the one thing that continues to to hit me probably once every three months is is often I look out in the world and I'm like I mean, these people have been exposed to the same information I've been exposed to, and they're just making they're making their choice based upon that. That's ridiculous. It's not true. The vast majority of people that I know, and this is even religion aside, have come to a conclusion

that has not been an informed decision. They're they're they're they're not they don't check into things. They've not really studied it. There had whatever. Boov asked me a question this week about someone's protest against a house church, and I was I thought it was embarrassing, this protest. It was just stupid. No one had even thought like and that's not even because I run a house church. It's because I looked at it and go, that's not even close to biblically sound. Did you put two thoughts into it at all? Right. And so, like You saw a word. Yeah. Oh oh, yeah. Everyone goes to the temple. So, I mean, your house churches are ridiculous. And, like, you go to the temple, friend? I thought not. Okay then. So but the but the point was is that, like, people hold all kinds of opinions that are not grounded in any sense of of research. What they wear. I mean, no one researches jeans. They just go, hey, people think these are cool. Yeah. Right. I'll spend a $150 on it. And then here comes like Johnny Deogutter like six months later, I'm like, oh, you bought Levi's jeans? You know Levi's funds abortion. Oh, man. What? I you know, what am I gonna do? I mean, wait. Do I got a reason? Oh, yeah. You know, they test that on animals. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I just bought a shirt. I'm like, look. Fits me. And they're like, yeah. That company promotes murdering Ugandans.

Oh, you gotta be kidding me. You know, I had no idea. So it's that's the thing is that, like, it is it is a callous thing to look out into the world and go, yeah, boy. I respect you enough to leave you to your own devices. Like, I get it. It's they're they're fighting it. They're hedging against an opposite risk, which is someone looks out in the world and I'm way better than you. Wait till I change your life. And to the extent that that a Christian has been, has been the person who's propagating that, shame on them. That's not following Jesus. And so, fine, let's agree to that. But it doesn't mean that you look out to the world and you see people who have a general need, me included, and don't go, boy, I would do whatever I can to bring help to that, and I can only help with true things.

Like, no one wants you to show up to a group of starving children and tell them lies about food you don't have. So, like, now spiritual hungry people, people who are who have a sense of loss or who who don't know whether this is real or not, why the heck would I show up and go, yeah. Look. I mean, I don't even know if this is objectively true. It's just what I feel in my tinglers, and maybe you could feel it in your tinglers too, and then we can tingle her together. You know what I'm saying? Like, it there's an objective reality to it. Like, it's just so it's so goofy. I I just think it's disingenuous, and what it makes it sound to to people who have that conversation, it makes it sound that you're just so loving and enlightened because you wouldn't wanna press anything on anybody. And here's the deal. I I don't we're not dragging anybody into heaven. Jesus inviting people in to live with him forever. If that is not a good proposition to you, there are alternatives. Yeah. However,

I'm certainly, to the extent that my fallible human heart, often doubting, often who needs help in his unbelief,

will still say, look, from everything that I know and have seen, freaking kids are getting getting the heels in Myanmar, and lives are being changed, and the personal presence of God himself,

I have felt and known in my life, and it's validated time after time. And so I tell you what, I don't know everything about the world, but I can tell you what I know, and this is what I know, and it's objectively true. And at least let's deal with that as opposed to as opposed to putting on the same level your tinglers versus something that is otherwise born out an objective reality. That's where I get frustrated because I think I think it's intentionally it's made it sound it's made to sound pious on the opposite side, and I think at at at its best, it's disingenuous. But I'll tell you something interesting about the conversation because as as is his deal, he said a number of things that were that were super true, and I thought were pretty relevant because he said one of the one of the things

he was talking about worship artists, and he said, you know, you'd be surprised at how many of those people don't their lie their faith is a lot more complicated than what their songs sound like or what they do on stage. Said, you know, but people come for an experience from them and their songs, and so they meet and people get a good experience from it. And I'm like, I don't like that, but it's probably true. Yeah. But I mean, what kind of person has to tell, like you tell it's just like the like like the gospels. Right? Like, they're they're formed in a way for a reason. They're organized the way that they are, you know, for to to to to tell a particular story. Right? Like, no one no one writes oceans and goes, sometimes I'm below the waves and I don't come up. And I see the boat and I don't care about the boat and I stay down there anyway because I'm angry when oceans rise. Right? Like,

that's not why that song was written. There's plenty of honest songs out there that say, looks, I I'm a stubborn sinner who doesn't understand the boat, you know, and the boat keeps showing up, and I am awed that it comes back even when I throw graffiti at it and garbage. And I say, I don't want your stupid boat, yet the boat returns, and I get on it. Right? Like, there's plenty of other things that are like that. But, like, some of the songs he's talking about, they're worship songs. They're songs to they're all true things about God despite coming from imperfect people. You don't have to asterisk every line in a worship song to make it valid. Right? Like Amazing Grace. Not to me. I don't deserve it. I think it's terrible, and, actually, I don't listen to it all the time. How sweet the sound when I hear it when I'm not putting my fingers in my ears and sitting like I do all the time. Right? Like, that that's not necessary. No. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. I I and I think, frankly, what where where it's right is that it's the risk of a broad scale of not not close congregation influence of of of song and teaching. It's not wrong. It's just it's the risk of it. Right? Like, you don't get to sit

in a in a in a close space to have the context of their everyone of their life or their thought process that go into the song. I don't think it's necessary, actually, because to to the truth the fact that it's valid, that it's a true thing, it properly reflects God, that they you could have you could have, like, the the think of the most outrageous person in your life and you're like, who who doesn't love Jesus at all. If they wrote a song that was true about Jesus, I don't I don't feel like I have any constraint of singing it. If it's accurate, what do I care? That's the thing. I'm super interested in the list he's talking about. Right? Like, because I I mean, I know a lot of Jesus tunes. I know a lot of Christian music in general, and

most of them paint God correctly and themselves correctly. Like, I don't hear a lot of songs glorifying the guy. Right? It's always worship to God. No. I think that his point is to say, the writing songs otherwise fall into line with mainstream Christian theology, but their belief system is much more complicated. Here's I mean, whatever. Take a guess. It's probably matters of sexuality,

probably matters of government and government structure. Like, it's if whatever. The the the brand of Is he trying to say that, like, the world's more complicated than the Christian music is making it out to be? Or I don't understand. I don't understand the point. He's saying they're he they're not your typical Christian like you think they are. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So, ultimately, the people that are writing these songs, they may say these this in their songs. They may seem devout and, like, they believe everything that's in their songs. But when it comes to their actual faith and their actual belief systems, it's not as cut and dry as their songs make easier. An alcoholic, you know, and struggle. But he was pretty vocal about it. And and Yeah. Fallible people wrote most of of everything so far. Right? Like like You will Psalms were were up and down constantly. Yeah. Right. Show me anything out of David and go, hey, man. This guy whipped me. Oh, yeah. Exactly. The Psalms that exalt God to who exactly who he was and tell exactly who he was towards his enemies, towards us, and towards things like that, they're not lost because David was a messed up guy. Yeah. So I think the I think the distinction, if he's trying to if he's if I can help him make it, is

there's a difference between an open and honest David and Fanny Crosby. Yeah. So you have to read David's entire work to get that though. Which is I think is the point is that the context the the some of what which which are modern means of taking in information allows us to to not we're not likely to get the whole context. Now here's the thing. I don't again, I I'm not sure that I care. Yeah. But but I think the point is is that, like, you know, what seems like a universality

and what people believe is a lot more complicated than that. But here's the thing. I don't know anybody that's met any Christian anywhere that doesn't have the semblance that people are lot more complicated than that. Right. And why is the onus not on the guy listening? Right? Like, if you right now, if you think that there aren't anybody on the Bethel worship team that smokes, drinks, or struggles with pornography, you're an idiot. Right. You're an idiot. Bring them up because there's a lot of pushback against Bethel right now. That's right. Right? Because they're they're they're false doctrine in their church. Yep. But, gosh, some of their worship songs are pretty nifty. Yeah. You know, and exalt god. And and right. And to the extent that they're nifty. They're really nifty. To the extent that they're true. They really tingle my spine. I was gonna call the paper. So to yeah. And to the extent that that's that was always been my thought with with Fleece's Lake Bethel and Hillsong, like, to the extent that the song, the song, accurately reflects

God and accurately affects humanity, whatever. I'm not in the middle of whatever sorting that stuff out, but I don't find any reason to boycott truth boycott true things about God simply because they came from sinful people who are probably misguided. No. And I think to to his point, I think I I would understand that considering the fact that, like, when we to call it mainstream Christianity, we deify a lot of the people that are involved in churches. We deify pastors that are our big name pastors. We deify the people that are the worship band leaders and all this kind stuff. We know their names. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Literally, how many of those stories end up in a, oh, no. But, yeah, absolutely. I I can understand that entirely. If we if we look to them as they are more important than the Christ that they offer, then, of course, they're gonna be in situations where people will constantly believe that their belief system is

infallible, and they are constantly in a place where they're not human. That person runs a megachurch. There's no way that person sins, or that person wrote that amazing grace song. It what even though that was, like, two hundred years ago. You know, there's no way that person says. I can totally see where the the person's coming from to make that argument that mainstream people or big people that we would expect to have great faith that that don't waver in any way, shape, or form are some of the most interesting people when it comes to their belief systems. So I get where he's coming from with that and trying to make that, like, is

an argument that relates that he's not alone. Well, sure. But I think that would be the point, though, is that, like Yeah. I'm not surprised that no one's in this room was particularly surprised to find out that that would be true. I I think that's a a tough lesson to learn though, and maybe it's Yeah. Everybody has to learn it at a certain time. Like, I I was pretty naive in the very beginning of Christian music. I I you know, I remember Amy Grant and that she was one of the first mean, I there were some before her, but, you know, really mainstream artists.

And man, it hit me hard when I heard she had an affair and, like, I just kinda gave up on her. It's like, no. You're not you're not a Jesus person. You know? Yeah. And because look at what you've done. Yeah. You know? And and that there's this guy was that guy. I was that guy. He put her on a pedestal. I mean, she's representing me. She represents my faith. She's a great spokesman to the whole world. And no, you're not. You know? And Right. That was a big blow. And I suppose every generation has to figure that out with with their current contemporary Yeah. Absolutely. Stars. Right. We think we think we got this new set that learned from the past, but the truth is, I mean, people have been doing these types of behaviors for thousands of years. Yeah. Well, like like, my my girls were were just shocked. Who who's the comedian we talked Chris. Oh, John Chris. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, no. No. Not him. Go back. Right. Exactly. The whole contract of the not him or not her is is is where we get wrapped up. Yeah. Is the no. There's no way that person reacted. Well, that's the problem. Yeah. Exactly. That's the absolute problem Yeah. Is is we put our faith in the in the people rather than the Christ they're bringing. You know, it's it's tough too. Right? Because there's nothing wrong with findings because

it's it's somebody that is on the earth right now that you can relate to, that you can look at and go, wow. I feel like they're following they're doing this right. This right. Yeah. I at least have something to look at and compare against and see what's what. Like, it's not like you can't source that from the Bible, but, like, when you see a guy Yeah. Of course. Doing it, you know, that lives next door to you, you're like, heck yeah. I would, you Yeah. Translates it. Yeah. I would be devastated devastated to find out that Red and Collective, as an example, were like something was up. Agreed. Right. Would be devastated. Yeah. I think I probably got a list of, like, three or four people that that follow Jesus, like, around me that, like, if if I were to find out something iffy, I would go, oh, man. Like, I I I pulled a little strength from them. Right? Like, never gave them, like, Jesus' whole robe. Right? But, like, but, like, you could always check back in. Yeah. And Francis Chan is always giving up a megachurch and moving to, the poorest country in Africa. You know? And you're like, yes. Okay. This is alive. This is well. This is not me seeing Jesus where he isn't. This my faith is alive and in action, and God is moving and, like, good. I always thought that was true about God, but it's just nice to be reminded that God is out doing things through other people. And I think don't it's a problem to get emotionally invested in that and have that stake within that person and go, yeah. That's cool to see here. Right. I I think when people draw that line, it becomes, well, they are what I have faith in versus Jesus. That's the problem. And I don't think you guys are running into that. I think it it's perfectly understandable to go, hey. They write great music. They they seem like they're doing great. I check-in on them. Francis Chan is again in the old town Siam. Right? Like, that's that's that's a cool thing to go on. But then people take that much further than you guys do. Well take that much further, and then it becomes a stumbling block for themselves with their faith because their faith is in that person rather than Jesus. And that's I mean, that's in the Bible. That's not that's a problem to have that situation

where we don't have we have faith in in the man versus the the god behind him. I wonder if part of this is we we all in this room have a a kind of a shepherd's mind or a shepherd's heart Mhmm. And and the sheep don't. And and the sheep, they just I would yeah. Everyone in this room, I would say, is a lot more enlightened than what I would call the checkbox Christian. Yeah. The person that says I mean, I don't jeez, Muba. I mean, that really word. Sound real pompous. I don't I don't I don't mean to Well, you know, better better than you would like to say. Here's the deal. I I think it's okay to say a true thing without it being pompous. I mean, that's exactly what a pompous man would say. Yeah. You're right. And that's fine. I mean, like, I've never understood, like, how how does

let's say the rock band setting. How how does the girl want I had a girlfriend who just would have loved to have opportunity to have sex with some famous band guide. I'm like, you don't even know the dude. You're like because you like his song. Like, oh, it's the whatever player, you know. I wanna be with them. It's like, what? You know, and we I realize it's a whole different thing but it's like, even in the Christian world, we're like, oh, not that I wanna do that but I wanna boy, I just wanna connect with them at such a high level. It's like, you even know them. I want them to know me. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm highly disappointed. I mean, like, was disappointed with the Bill Hybels thing, but at the same time, I'm like, you built a monster that wasn't really a Jesus. I mean, it wasn't really a scriptural thing. Right. You you know, it's a disappointment from, you know, how many people he let down, but should he have let that I mean, is it that big of a shock? Right. You know? Right. But then that comes from our perspective. Right. Yeah. Right. I don't know. I

don't know. I mean, mean, at the end of the day, it's it's a guy right? What he's he's not the only guy I've ever met, right, that's walked away from Christianity and said, I finally see this for what it is. And and the truth of the matter is is generally, it's rooted in, I

want more of me. I want more of me in this. I want more of my perspective on this thing. Right? Like like and and and the all the the true things that that they thought they understood about God, they decided could be better replaced with what they've been thinking over the last year. Right? Like, I mean, let let's be honest. You believe this thing for thirty five years and then year '36, something happened and you've gone, well, from the information I've collected over the last year,

I've now shifted my gaze to the right, and then everything on the left looks stupid now. And so it's a it's a little disingenuous to say it's it's arrogant, kind of what it is. Right? Like, I we're looking at a at a religion just on on a fact based, you know, basis that has been around of thousands of years, people are willing to die for it, and you cancel all that out in one year of trouble and woe. Mostly tired because of faking it. Mostly because you interjected

sin into your life and decided that you were tired of of holding yourself to account. You were tired of of putting it up on the altar and said, you know what? I'm just tired of feeling bad about this, and so I'm just gonna continue to do it over here and then discredit everything up to this point. Which is interesting because, like, I I think that actually points to the nefariousness that does exist within the church where people feel like there's not that the church is not for them with with things like that. Now I don't think that's as true as most atheism

attempts to make it sound nor people that are just generally upset with the church. Broadly, I think a lot of the church is getting this right. But, like, you don't hear from the people where it's getting right. But, like, is there is it true that there are places in Christianity where where Amy Grant Amy Grant has an affair and we go, we're done?

I mean, no. Whatever it I'm not not but, like, I mean, you get it right. Like, the the reaction is is, like, I'm so disappointed in this, and especially with people who have some sense of stature. And did did or did we leave people room to be

human, not in allowing them and celebrating the fact that they are fallible human, but basically agreeing with God's perspective on their humanity. And, like, is that something that Christianity needs to be careful of? Yes. And the reason depends on the person, but a lot of times we get bundled up in that because I look at Bill Hybels and I go, what the heck, man? You poison the name of Jesus who for people who were looking for ammo. Right? If there was an opportunity for someone, for every kid that gets healed in Myanmar,

that that two people might be able to hear about, 2,000,000 people saw in the Washington Post that Bill Hybels abused his pastoral position in a megachurch, touched a lady, and propositioned himself to people who didn't want it while being married and and running a pastor in a giant leadership conference. And so, yeah, you know what? I'm kinda pissed at you, and your humanity really sucks right now.

One, because you've took that upon yourself. You're arrogant. And then two, I thought it looked like we were making gains over here. It looked like we were making some headway. Now that's the part where my anger is not justified because they're not my gains. They're gods to handle. There's a reality to that man's sin and what he's done to other people. We we should be able to bury his story

by the millions of acts of kindness and love and faithfulness to God and and showing of Jesus to the world. That. We're great point. We don't do that. Well, I mean, it it won't play, but here's the deal. It's the same it's the same way I solve welfare. You don't want the government handing out money. The people you should try to go to a street corner and put $500 in the air and go, government handed money, and they're like, you know what? We're covered. The church loves us. The Christian's already been here. Yeah. They've already been through. Nobody wants you here. That's how you get the government out of stuff. And and, frankly, this is how you handle the Bill Hybels problem, and you handle all the other issues that we're worried about that, like, I might be getting really upset about and feel like we lost. Like, we were making some gains because we had a cool person doing cool things, and then it failed, and I'm upset. But, like, they're not my gains, and there's a way to overwhelm this problem, and it's it's by getting off your your tuchus. Yeah. I I maybe that's the point of the night. The point of the night is is, like, the Heibels don't make a big deal if the rest of Christianity is out there whooping tail. Yeah. And that's not what's happening. Right? Like, we find people to get behind, and they were like, good. Somebody's rocking. It's because we freaking outsourced to Hybels. Yeah. Like, that's what we did. We outsourced to the megachurch pastor. We outsourced to the worship leader and the band and whoever was coming through town, and we said, boy, I support them because of what they're doing for Jesus.

And, like, here's here's what would happen is is if you're discipling people. Right? I I I'm I'm I'm confident this is true. Of of people that I've spent any significant discipling relationship with, They hear this thing about Bill Hybels. They don't go, oh, man. Maybe this Christianity thing is bogus or maybe it perverts people or, like, how did the church even permit this? They go, boy, that's not Christianity. Right? It would not occur to them. Right. That's humanity. That's right. Like, oh, I get that. I'm I might even be susceptible to those types of things because I'm a human. Pray for that guy, and let the Lord keep marching. Like, that's the thing. But if we're not overwhelming the masses with our boldness because we have the power of the holy spirit in our lives and the true and the reality of Jesus Christ and his saving grace for you, like, if that's the context that is not getting out there, then it's easy to let the Bill Hybels brush point paint a picture, and it's false. Or Amy Grant or, god forbid, rent collective. Don't say it, man. Rent collective will not fall. Rent

collective Timmons are the dudes from the bible project. They're gonna sail on the glory. Come take them away, Lord Jesus. Arendale. And Jeff Arendale. And Jeff Arendale. If he ever releases a CD with a song he's played in studio. Victory is not on this one. Yeah. Yeah. You know how many people were disappointed? My wife goes, that one's really not on a CD. I'm like, classic Arendelle.

He puts out a tune everybody loves. It'll come out in three years. I was gonna say, four EPs from now, we'll see victory. Dang it, Arendelle. Yeah. Yeah. He his yeah. His album's aged like a like a fine lard. It's good for a bit. Fine lard? And then you got you can't keep it anymore. I've never you're looking two words in the same sentence. Swap it out for something else. Here's the deal. You are winning tonight. You said ting tinglers and now a fine lard.

I have a way. So, anyway, I thought so I I I brought that up. Oh, wait. One of the thing he said that I that I thought that that resonated with me is he said he he ends up talking to Christians a lot because, again, he he comes from that world. He still these two got good friends in every case. Wife's a Christian. Weird. Like, that'd be an interesting union. And so but but one of the things he said was I get to talking to a lot of Christians, and what I'm finding is that

they've reconciled things about God or about Jesus or about probably more specifically about the Bible because that's generally where people's critique. They don't wanna blame Jesus. They wanna blame the the the word. Yeah. But and he said, look. Do you know how many Christians are basically

worshiping their own version of God? And I'm like, that's probably true. Mhmm. That's probably true where, like, there are things he goes, you know, I like, that your version of Christianity sounds great, but, like, I I don't actually see how it reconciles with scripture. And that's true. I know a lot of people who believe a Christianity that I can't reconcile with scripture that is more, palpable to someone in,

who who's in the maybes or in the nones category because the God's not offensive. He doesn't demand any type of loyalty. He doesn't really restrict anything that you do. If you love and and you love who and you love other people and we all love each other, then we're generally, it's not really a big deal. And so that's the thing. I I think that is a fair critique and I think it's where you why it's important for you to take the scripture as old. Because here's the deal. I I think you're at least being honest if you go, look, I cannot I do not want to follow this God. That's at least honest. But, like, it a lot of that's based upon, you know, classic

antagonist tropes about things God did in the Old Testament or inconsistency or, like, I don't I think he hates women or all kinds of garbage. It's stuff that's not true that like, faithful people who are struggling and working through scriptures, but who recognize the heart of God are trying to figure out how this this document that's x thousands of years old is speaking true things in a way that we can otherwise recognize God's character. I get it. But but those are reasonable questions that if you think that people of faith are not thinking through those, you're sadly mistaken. You're I don't know a man who doesn't go, hey. How should I understand this? But here's the thing. I think there's plenty of reason the totally reasonable answers here. It it it's not like, oh, well, I can't put these two things together, so the thing's wrong. I you know, the thing though is is, like, I think almost everybody who's asking those questions has already been burned by a person representing Jesus, and then they that's how they get there. Like, almost

everybody I know that actually has a has an anger towards Christianity or an offensive against Christianity always points back to it always turns out to be some person that they met at the church or the way the church handled something, the people handled something. Right? And then they use that as the starting block to start gaining evidence against God. Right? To take it up that Yahweh is the cause of whatever sin was committed against them in the church at some point. Like but it almost always starts with a Christian treated me poorly, and then I backfilled it with God sucks. So interestingly, there's there was an article by Robin Schumacher

in at the Christian Post. It said, eight years ago well, I continue to I'll just skip down to the middle here. I continue to see data suggesting that many people leave the church or consider it irrelevant because it fails to answer the tough questions that are thrown at it. I contacted the megachurch I go to about starting up an apologetics ministry. Because I'm formally trained in apologetics and theology, offered to spearhead it and help train a volunteer staff who could serve as a group ready to answer people inside or outside the church who struggle with questions Christianity. I spoke with five campus and connection pastors about it and also offered to teach formal culturally relevant classes at the church where these issues could be openly discussed. This time, I was the one who got the shrug of the shoulders response or simply ghosted on email. So earlier, it said that there was a friend of hers or something who was trying to make connections with, like, all the churches in the city to offer, like, a youth apologetics thing, and, like, nobody was interested. So she tried this person tries it again, and the same thing. The fact is it's ugly out there and it's getting worse. Data from Barner Group has identified a number of disturbing trends that should cause all Christians concern.

Gen z teens are much less likely to assert religious identity than generations before them with a rise in espoused atheism also being witnessed. Almost half of practicing Christian millennials believe that evangelism is wrong. That's bogus. We're skipping okay. You know what? I'm done with this article. Because we read that, and that wasn't that wasn't the right context. And so as an apologist, if you're using that to try to get me to believe something and I know that's not true, we're done with you. Okay. Hey, on that What's funny about those articles What? Is that is that once again, they insinuate that these things are your problem. Right? Like my problem? Well, like, in general, you say you say we were talking about about high bills. Right? Like or doing well. We're like, these are these are we were doing well. We were making gains. They're God's gains. Right? Like and if if if 48%

of the gen z whatever teens are don't blah blah blah evangelism, automatically, the church machine goes back to their their group and goes, we gotta be more relevant. We gotta figure out a way to to straighten this up. We gotta we gotta come up with a new banner. We gotta get a new logo up and running. Right? Like, we come up with all these stupid things. Right? And, like, it's always been the same thing. All the the the thing is always the same thing. Right? Like, it's always doubling down on Jesus and and and and watching him do things. And so, like, not to say that, like, you can't double check and make sure that your sermon series just haven't become some whitewashed tomb of a delivery system. Right? But at the end of the day,

it's they're God's people. Right? And if you're following Jesus and your church is following Jesus, then it will invite other people to follow Jesus in the way that it works. But what are your thoughts on that? So I well, mean, agree with entirely. I think, ultimately, if we're trying to look at our outreach and figure out how we can be more relevant as a church and as an organization instead of actually trying to figure how we could be more relational with people, and actually build people up, that's a problem.

If we're focused on what our sign is, if we're focused on the newest building, if we're focused on what's our light show look like on Sunday morning, or do we have the most relevant band, or are we are we dealing with the most, most recent music that's come out? Like, are we are we doing that? That that was not a problem that was put out by by the church as it was intended. That was not an issue that was meant to be solved by by people trying to develop a a show or an event for people to come to. Our job in in creating people that are that are well, in in shepherding people that are on fire for Jesus is to literally live our lives the way that we're supposed to continually follow Christ ourselves,

push for that as best as we can, be biblically sound together as communities, and then people see that kind of stuff, and they watch people that love Jesus truthfully and honestly and fully, and then they can't help but go, dude, what is wrong with you?

Why are you doing that? Francis Chan, why did you leave a mega church to go start house churches? Then why were you called again to move randomly to a small country in in in Asia, to do that when you you were effective over here? Like, it's it's confusing to As far as we thought, he was making gains here. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And that and that's the kind of thing we look at. We we see we see what we think is effective. We see what we think is is the right way to do things, and rarely ever do I see people truthfully seeking the heart of God through scripture and through prayer and through correct community. That's rarely happening. One of the one of the three maybe.

Prayer, okay. I'm I'm sure there's plenty of churches that are praying hard, and I'm not saying that's a problem, but is it backed up by you having a legitimate relationship with God that you're listening on and following on? Are you are you finding yourself in a place where you're living out the way that the church, was called to be? When was the last time you as a church looked at what the church is supposed to be rather than what you think it needs to be? So let me ask you this though, because like like the church gets a lot of internal, at least, conversation about not making Sunday morning a show. Right? But like even the premise of it is set up that way. Right? Like, the stage is lit. Absolutely. The crowd is dark. 100%. The music shows up, then you go away. Right. And then it's, you know, it's the and and, like, we give you the donuts and the coffee and, like, and you're quiet when you're supposed to be quiet. And so, like, is there it it can't all just be that. It can't be all just the way that we have it set up that's causing that parts of that issue. I don't think it's actually causing that much of that issue. I think it lends to it. Right. Yeah. It's a little bit because, I mean, we do the exact same thing in a play or a concert. We do not. All the same way. Crowd's dark, shows light, wham. You know, we're good to go. And so it's almost a a Pavlovian response in people that like, hey. I'm here to be entertained. You know? I think we try and develop the attraction of Jesus. Like, we we are the ones who feel like we need to create the most attractive Jesus possible.

By by making that show or even if it's not just the show on Sunday morning, if it's the church in general, how do we make ourselves more relevant and attractive to our community versus how do we just love our community. It's not about coming to our church and it's not about coming to our building. It's not about coming to where we congregate. Go and do things. Focus on how you're loving your neighbor. Like, legitimately, I'm not I'm not just trying to call upon that scripture. The person who lives next to you, do you have any idea who they are? Have you spent any amount of time with them trying to get to know them? And I'm not talking about going over to their door, knocking on it, handing them a pie, and going, Jesus loves you. No. Seriously, get in the nitty gritty and be vulnerable with them, and try and develop a serious relationship with them. If you are constantly trying to create relationships with people that are meaningful because all you can do is hold the candle and the flame of God's glory and the message of God, and run with that in your life, and are constantly trying to love people the way he did sincerely, which is a crazy and reckless love. I don't think we do that well. I I think we we we come up with cool events, and we come up with cool things, and we even come up with cool ideas there. Hey. Let's help the homeless, or let's help the poor. Let's put a a clinic together, whatever. But if you're not living Right.

Yeah. But but if you're not doing these things from the perspective of, like, it's literally your day to day, it is your daily thing. It's not about what am I doing for the next big thing in three months. It is when I walked out of my house this morning, was my heart for the people around me instead of myself? Was my heart for everyone on my block to recognize that I have, good news that is the message of Jesus Christ being a salvation that they can attain that I am currently holding on to? Why am I not running through my streets screaming that to people? Obviously, not literally doing that. Don't do that. That's freaky. I'm not. But, like, cool. Thought. If that's what you wanna do, awesome. Dan, cancel the cancel the screaming for next week that you and I had planned. When when Christian when when Jesus is shown throughout the New Testament, throughout throughout what we've seen in in history is people that are literally putting feet to the ground, that are constantly following Christ in their day to day by themselves, their self,

their family, they're developing that. They're developing a community around them, and then that group of believers is able to go out and chain and revolutionize things around them. Here here's what I think we do though. Because I don't disagree with anything you're saying. All although what what what we do, anytime the more people are involved, we institutionalize everything.

Mhmm. And it's not like, you know You gotta herd the cats. Yeah. We we we suddenly, it's a this is the process and this is how we do it. Mhmm. Whether it's lights up or lights down or air conditioner on or off, hard seats, soft seats. Right? Homes, cathedrals. I mean, wherever it no matter We just do it everywhere. It's our human ness or Americanness. I don't know what it is. Agreed. Yeah. And I think it's how do you keep it fresh? How do you even keep it genuine? Because you can even I agree with that word. Genuine. Freshman is not worried about genuine. I care about. Bringing Jesus can be institutionalized.

Yeah. Of course. I mean, you know, it's like Oh, right. Right. The the Mormons are still knocking on doors and they're all saying the same thing. Same mouthpiece. Same bike. It all starts from a good spot, but we just screw everything. Oh, yeah. No. I'm not saying the intention is wrong. Right. Right. This is where you need to listen to the prophet Tim Timmons where he says things Oh, no. He says things like, love threw me. Right? Like, a lot of it is on this is this is the problem. Like, when we talk about the gen z teens who don't know blah blah blah blah, we start coming up with our ideas. Mhmm. Right? Here's what we're gonna do. Blah blah blah blah blah. And, like, at its core, you are a vessel for God's love to other people. Yeah. You're not you're not producing the love. Right. Right? This is where we tend to miss it. Right? We're like, we have to produce blah. Instead of saying, god, through me, do this. Right? Do whatever you wanna do. I'll do whatever you're doing. You do it through me. Mhmm. Right? Then it stays genuine because it's god's in the first place. Yeah. It never was you. Right? Like, here's the thing is I know that I cannot conjure up a close,

gritty relationship with my neighbors. I can't do it. I'm not designed for it. It's not my personality. I can't do it. But God, through me, can certainly do it. Yeah. Absolutely. But I can't do it on my own. And so you'll get you'll get half the crowd that goes, I'm not doing that because that's not me. Right? And and and the church, when they're missing it slightly, will put it as a personal call on your life as if it's your job for you to go over and rouse up your neighbors and get reach out to your community. And then what you have is a bunch of god's people going, I you know, I I don't no. I'm not designed for that. You know who's designed for that? Bill Hybels. Seems like he rocks it. Right? Like, I'm not designed for this. Right? But then if you change it so it's it's a it's a heart attitude. Right? Where you're like, look, God, will you just love through me? Right? Help love love these people and do it through me. I'm open to it. You do it through me, then it's not your problem because it's not you that's producing the love. The love is coming from Christ where where it's supposed to be sourced. And I think it's a humility issue is what I actually I really think that it boils down to. When we started that church in Zimbabwe a few months ago, a part of the part of the process was we had a revival this weekend and we fed we said we're gonna throw a feast and we want people to come Mhmm. To the feast. Right? Yeah. And the church

took that as like, awesome. We're getting a treat from the Americans. Mhmm. And I kept saying, no. This is for the community. You know, bring bring your friends, bring your neighbors. This is to bring people. We wanna feed them some food. Give them a good honest meal,

solid meal. Right. Because you haven't had one forever. And then they could hear the gospel too. And it was hard even there, you know. That's what's not I can't even blame the Americans. No. It's okay. It was hard even there for them to go, but this is this is for us. You know? Like, God has blessed us. God is I mean and they were so appreciative and and their hearts are so good. Of course. But even there, I was surprised to see there was a, like, a a block. Like, well, they'll come at some point after we eat. They haven't earned that. We have a little something.

You know, so as you guys were talking, it made me think about even the crux of the story was, like, is it a problem that you have, 50% of Gen z folks who go, look, the the the church is irrelevant or Jesus is irrelevant,

Christianity is irrelevant. Yeah. That's a problem. But, you know, as we tend to try to solve it intellectually, that was the point this this person was ultimately gonna make. Right? Like, we need to talk about more apologetics. But here's the thing is if you are seeing that in people around you, the lack of an answer to a big question doesn't cause you to say it's irrelevant. It's because you have no connection to it at all. There

are plenty of things even within Christianity where I'm like, God, I'm just not sure. I'm not sure I understand this well. And maybe it's something that I won't ever understand or maybe it's something I'll get a little bit later. But like, I'm not going anywhere because my relationship with God and the community he surrounded me with and the notion of of of of true biblical word is something I'm very familiar with and I find reliable. And so the the the presence of those types of questions, the presence of a question is not indicative of a presence of a problem. The only time that you then blame that on Christianity and say, this is a problem that we can't answer this, is not because we're not there isn't an answer, it's because there's no one there's telling the answer. And it's the body that is way more of a problem than the words that support it. There's all kinds of people who know who aren't near as enlightened as myself

and Buva, who, like, know 90 less of what I know about scripture, and it does not bother them a wick. They don't care. Their love for Jesus and, like and they're they're kicking tail out serving people and probably shaming me in certain areas Mhmm. Of following Christ. Right? And my knowledge, my my extra 90%, although it contributes to the way that my gig is to serve the kingdom,

is not helping in those areas, and it's not necessary for those. But those guys, for lack of like, you could hey. What what about God and the Canaanites? Say below, well, I know God is good. I've seen it. So I trust that he'd be good. I'm not satisfied with that answer, but part of my gig is to not be. It's to try to understand and and tell the story a little bit deeper and and correctly. But, like, bless that man. Be and it's not he's not going, oh, this is the problem. I'm leaving the church. And so we just need to be careful that when we look out of the world and go, look at all these problems that people are having connecting with their faith, it is nine out of 10. I'm gonna go 99 out of a 100. It's the presence of a human loving and following Jesus in their life and not the intellectual answer

and not whatever other thing that they think the church is supposed to step up on a political message or how they're how they're working in the funding of whatever organization you love or don't love. I'm just telling you that the presence of a of a faithful Christian in their life is the thing that changes that conversation from a nun to I have questions. And so as we look as ourselves as a body, as a faithful followers of Jesus, and we look at our communities around us and we go, dude, what should we do as a church? If it means, hey. We need more answers, and we don't have bodies to share them, then no. You've you I think you've missed the boat here. The answers will come. God will provide answers, but he's already providing people. The question is, are we being faithful to the call to be the people to do it? And I think that's that's more the risk than everything else. We don't need more it's not another sermon series. It's not another apologetics ministry. It's not necessarily better hands out some flyers or free Bibles.

You you you solve the people problem first. We'll figure out the Bibles. We'll get more Bibles. No problem. The word of God will preach. I'm not I'm not worried about that at all. That's true. It spread like wildfire with very little little Bibles That's what I'm saying. Back in the day. The the the the what did Jesus say? The harvest is plentiful. The Bibles are few. The harvest is plentiful. The answers are few. Yeah. That was second hesitations. The harvest is plentiful. The workers are few.

It's a peep they're all it's always a people problem. And here's the deal. We should expect no less. The Lord creates the world, and he goes, I'm gonna send my I'm gonna send my co manager. I'm gonna send the person who is to represent me in the world, my image, my idol is as is what I will create to rule over the earth. The Lord is always about handing out a responsibility to humans creators image and likeness to do as he would do. And so do not do not try to turn that over to a sense of an idea or a sense of an advertisement or whatever. And here's the thing, the people problem, you you solve the people problem. I I I don't I don't give a flying whip what you're doing on a Sunday morning, to be honest. I don't care your format. Don't care how many songs you play. I don't care whether you meet in the house or whether you meet in the live. Giant church got 50,000 people in. Don't care. If if if the people thing is being solved, and the people thing gets solved when we preach true things and we pray faithfully and the Holy Spirit doesn't work. Right? So it's it's all it's all bundled in that. But, like, that's where the format becomes way,

irrelevant to me because none of those things preclude people being faithful to Jesus when the thing is over. No. That's true. Edward, I mean, I mean, you had a problem, like, if if they have the people problem handled and a guy goes, man, we like to do lots of fog in our place. Cool. That sounds Fog it up, man. I don't know. We like to have six conga players. I love six conga players. I think that sounds great. Right? Just like one family tends to have taco Tuesday night, all churches look like they're doing this crazy thing different. And, like, it doesn't actually matter. Nobody actually cares. We spent all our money on speakers. I think that was dumb, but I'm glad you love it. Right? We're still preaching Jesus, and people are still out there loving other people. That's great. That's exactly what we want. No. So that that's the question, though, is that, like, do would I of all the things that I don't count as a pastor, I don't count attendance. I don't count money. I don't count, like, things that otherwise we I nobody wants to be counting, but frankly, you just end up doing it. What I what I do care about is the engagement of people. Mhmm. Are our people engaged? Are and not on Sunday morning. I I mean, whatever. You may or may not listen to me. That's you talk take that up with the Lord. I have a job. Pass that up. It's not really my responsibility. But, like,

involved in other people's lives? Right. Are are we doing the people thing? And if we're not doing the people thing, then maybe what I'm teaching isn't right. Right? Maybe what we're how much time we're spending in prayer on a Sunday morning isn't right. Maybe how I'm encouraging you and leading you as a pastor is not right. That's a gauge for me. Past like, all the other stuff are intangibles, but people's because I think almost all these things are people problems. And so that and they get solved by people actively engaging in the work of Jesus, being Jesus to a world that needs it. And then a lot it's weird to say, look. The the truth of the Bible is peripheral. I mean, it's not because that's how I understand who Jesus is. But to be honest,

people work is what leads to you being able to communicate the truth of the Bible. It just is. And and the people are willing to listen to that conversation because you're doing people work. And so I don't I don't say people work is is is stronger than spiritual work. That's where you get into weird people who are talking where so the the the prime banner of the church is social justice. I think church should be all about social justice. I think you should care for the environment. I think you should otherwise help people in need. I think you should care that people are being mistreated and justice is being done. Absolutely freaking lutely. I'm in. But the people of Jesus should be on that anyway. We should be on the welfare problem. We should be on the lack

out of control Medicare cost. We should be on it, and and not through the means of what you think. We should just be on it. And so but what do we lack? We don't like words. People talk about that crap all the time. We lack initiative. We like body. We like boldness. We like putting our time and money and faith into the things that Jesus otherwise might want done so they may reflect the world, his image and likeness, and know that he is good and that people are safe. And that if if we can't manage the world in that way, that's where we're biffing it. Everything else is is a secondary thing, it's important things. Don't hear me wrong. But, like, if if we're not hitting that thing, I I feel like the other stuff, you're you're probably spinning your wheels because you may have all the right answers, but no one's willing to listen to you. It didn't do you any good.

You ready? I'm ready. Dear life from the path, I need some help. A terrible car accident happened in front of my house a few months ago that resulted in the death of a husband and father. The family comes out every Sunday to place flowers at the accident site, which is my front yard. Oh, no. At first, I had no problem with them expressing their grief and tried to console the widow every time I saw her. Problem is she has gradually added to the area a memorial stone and angel statue, vases, and some of her husband's belongings. My front yard is beginning to look like a graveyard, a tacky one. Now she's asking to place a protective shelter over the site. I don't know how to respond. Oh. My My husband is threatening to go and pull everything up as it is. To add the stress of all this, another fatal accident occurred last month resulting in the death of a 22 year old. He was the son of one of my children's teachers. I can't imagine what she must be feeling right now, passing our home and seeing the graveyard out front. It must be heartbreaking. We live on a dangerous road, and we are petitioning for changes, but I don't wanna make our front yard a spectacle. Grieving in the Midwest. That is difficult.

Yeah. At the beginning, was totally all for, hey. You should just be a nicer person. Yeah. But, like, as it continued The shell it was the shelter? Yeah. It was the tabernacle that did it. Totally it? Yeah. Oh, man. And this is on their property or just outside their property? Looks like it was on their property. Think it's on. I mean, there are problems you're just not prepared for. What do you live on? Dead man's curb? Why are Right. Walking around people have died on your street? Holy cow. Okay. How long has it been? Months. Months has been a year. I'd say I'd say give it a year and then cut it off say hey

sorry. Yeah a few months ago is when the accident happened. Right. I communicate with her. Would you let her build the shelter in the interim? I don't think so. Yeah. I say that have in it not actually, you know, taking place in my life right now. It would be difficult to say no. It'd be really I think I would feel like a real jerk face. But Well

well, okay. So let let me let me tease this out just a bit. So the the one lady finds solace in the the the the vases and the marker and whatever. Yeah. I don't think there's anything that says that the teacher whose son died would not otherwise like, people do that all the time on roads. They they put up the crosses and stuff. And some have obviously been there a long time. And so I don't I don't know that I would worry so much about Like, the second the second person's reaction. That's right. She's devastated. That teacher's devastated because her kid is dead, not because and it's not like she needs that memorial to go, oh, yeah. I had a son that recently died. She's thinking about it all the time. So I get it. There's a practicality to it, but I I wouldn't sweat that so much. I think the the the core question is

and you don't have the relationship with this woman to speak something helpful to her life like, hey, man. You might be overdoing it in this area. Like I'm not sure it's healthy for you to have pitched a tent Jonah style over this thing. I mean, we let we Do we generally let grief play out in any healthy way that it can? Right? Like Yeah. This is not a destructive way. It's obviously Damn.

Memorializing. It's it's it's over the top, right, from an outsider's perspective. But like, it's not harming them. It's not harming you, really. It is ugly. But I mean Okay. I know I know what I would do. Here's my advice. Okay. Alright. I would I would call a meeting and and get this family here and say, I'm I I fully appreciate and I am sorry for your loss. And I would bring landscaper and say, let's design together. This is our property by the way,

but I also want to honor this person's life. Mhmm. Can you help me? Let's create a permanent something that in my property I can appreciate but you can also appreciate in memory of your That's a great idea. Let's set out a rock garden or something. And have a landscape That is the most generous, loving thing I could think of to do. Because I need to be able to live here. Yeah. Right. And you need to be able to honor your and remember Right. If it's a if it's a nicely trimmed hedge or something opposed to flowers that keep going bad Right. Garbage and LED lights and whatever. You know? Something that can stand. Yeah. That's a Well, I think there's something cool to be said about that too is you're building relationship with that person. Right. Right. Like you said I don't have the relationship to talk to that person. Right. Hey, build it. Mhmm. I know and I I know that I'm I'm advocating for something that's not that cut and dry and easy but like that's a that's an easy way to or that's an interesting way to do it is like hey. It's a conversation. Say hey I will have the finals It's my property, but I really want your input. Yeah. Absolutely. Honor your love. Yeah. We'd love to set something up for him. We're we're it's so terrible. Get the mom in on it too. I like that. I like that, Dan. That's a good idea. Yeah. I'll be here all day. Okay. Let's see what Secular says. Secular says, you are obviously a caring person or you wouldn't have allowed this situation to have gone as far as it has. Oh, no. It won't be a pleasant conversation, but the time has come for you and your husband to talk with the widow together and explain that while you sympathize with her devastating loss, you prefer your yard not to be used this way. You have that right. It's private property. Suggest to her that there may be some other way to memorialize her husband, but you need the stone and other objects removed within a reasonable time frame. You all you may also want to check with your local officials to see what the laws are about this. Yeah. Yep. Call in the government. Exactly. Bring in the old constable. Let's get the five o on it. Lady just lost her husband. We'll just, well, write her up for citation.

Wasn't it husband and son? Yeah. Yeah. No. I think it was a husband and father, so it was the same time. Gotcha. Okay. Got it. Your memorial is gaudy and outside of code. See, once again I called the city planner. He's not excited about the usage and zoning. This is the people. Sorry for your love. This tabernacle is not specifically okay. It needs to have four specific walls and an entrance and a fire extinguisher. We cannot do anything one to one anymore. We crowdsource everything. Yep. Right? Like, hey. I need to go talk to this lady about putting these statues on my lawn. I'm a bring some back up with the law. Right? Like, you just can't have a reasonable car. Let's now after after it went poorly, then you're like, okay. You know? Like, what's the what's the the Christians who ain't fallen no more? Right? You do a one on one, they don't listen to you. You get a couple more dudes, don't listen to those guys. You get everybody. Right? Like, it's an it's an escalation, but, like, we can't do that. There's people that can't decide what restaurant to go to without crowdsourcing Snapchat. Hey, man. What restaurant should I go to? Seriously? How did you get your shoes on? Hey. Don't you do that. Like, I I just I I don't understand how you can have

I think it leads to just this massive insecurity all the time. If I don't ask everybody, I will land on a thing that's no good. And the point is is, like, the thing that you land on is good because you landed on it. It was good enough. Right? Like, but, like, you don't wanna be missing out on this or that or whatever. Some guy knows one thing and the bouncer that lives over here, and he'll get you to the table by the plants or whatever stupid thing you think you're missing out on. I think it's, like, it's it's way over the top. People won't do nothing on their own. Hey. I I went to go talk to the neighbor. Their dog was pooping in my yard. I said, hey, man. We gotta put the end of this. Oh, man. Sorry. That dog's rambunctious. Okay. I'm on it. I'll take care of it. Done. But they don't. They're like, we got I called the sheriff, and me and the sheriff went over there, and we wrote them a note, we sent them emails and whatever. It's terrible. I just don't understand it. It's it's ridiculous. It's so weird. Right? That that like the fear of miss it's it's ironic, I guess, that the fear of people are constantly missing out based upon their fear of regret of missing out. Right? Like, don't wanna miss out on the best thing, and so I'm gonna crowdsource the thing and try to get this opinion and that opinion. And I might miss out on having actually done the thing at all because I was waiting to hear what everyone else was gonna do or what they think I should do. Alright. So, yeah, that was terrible advice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, talk to the lady. I like that. But, like, I mean, how callous is to go, it's been enough time?

I mean, that's I mean, I can't imagine five years, ten years, twenty years is enough time to have lost your spouse in a way that was unexpected. Right. Right? It's not enough time. Yeah. And so that's a bad premise. I Dan's Dan's done a beautiful thing here. I agree. That's fantastic. Alright. You wanna do one more? Yeah. Then that's it. Dear life from the path, my father, although a well meaning and caring man, often speaks before he thinks. The way he phrases things can come up across as harsh, uncaring, and rude. Uh-huh. This guy seems alright. I say, is this one of your daughters, Mike? My husband is a sensitive person who was badly bullied in his youth. Yep. So he doesn't feel comfortable around my father and takes most things he says as insults. I've tried talking to both of them without success and even involved my stepmom.

My father and stepmom are coming for are coming for a visit, and I can't get it through my father's or my husband's heads. That's the only way for them to get on the same page is to talk. My husband can't understand why I see common ground between him and my father, and my father is too oblivious to realize the depth of the problem. The two most important men in my life cannot communicate. What can I do? Wow. I'm I'm confused. Nothing? Yeah. Yeah.

There's not really much he can do. The father's a he's a he's a sharp, handsome guy that speaks his mind. Okay? He's alright. Handsome. The husband is a sensitive person who was badly bullied in his youth, so he doesn't feel comfortable around my father and takes most things he says as insults. I mean, you explained the problem right there. He's taking things as insults whether they were meant as insults or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you know, we call things as you see them. Dude says and go, hey, sir. That was offensive. And just but just you don't have to internalize it. You could recognize offensive things without them applying to you. Hey. Yeah. That's not true about me. It's weird that you would say that. So, like, this is the hard true. Deal with it. Okay? This is the hard thing to explain to your kids. Right? Like like, you have a yeah. They ride home on the bus, and there's this kid on the bus who's just a constant jerk. He's just an absolute jerk at the age of, like, five. He's a terrible kid, you know, just causing all kinds of ruckus. And, like, the kids say, he's bad. He's mean. He's mean to me. And then as a parent, you're like, now listen. People don't just they don't just have this. Right? Like, most people who are what what what's Dana always say? Hurting people hurt people. Right? And so, like, they're most of this is sourced from somewhere, so you have to try to get above the situation, take yourself out of it, and look at the person and go, this is probably why they're acting the way that they are. I need to have some grace for this. Right? But the problem is is if you do that, in an adult context, it makes it feel like you're the better person. Right? Because you're looking you're analyzing the other person instead of and instead of taking them at just face value as two people have relationship, you're saying, I can see above this. I can see what you are and how you got there and I'm gonna try to change the way that I interact with you based on that. So the dad, the oblivious dad with the big mouth,

he doesn't get to just be that way because that's how he's always been. Right? Like, you can take into account that, like, the husband's a little sensitive. You gotta just watch what you say. Right? Like, there's no reason for your your ways to be just accepted, and he has to grow to that. But on the other hand, the husband has to look at it the exact same way. That guy's a little bombastic. He's probably not meeting to bust your chops. He just talks to everybody that way, and so you're you're taking it in too heavy. And so if they're not willing to do that, young lady, you're stuck between two stubborn men, and I I'm not sure you're gonna mend that fence. Right? They're just both being stubborn is at the end of the day. They're stuck in their ways. I want to be sensitive. I want to be a brash dude that just says whatever the heck I want, and I'm not willing to move either way. I want to be insulted. You know, like, you're basically begging for it. Right? This is probably weighs more on the sensitive guy than the other guy. The other guy is just what he is. Right? And I guess a sensitive guy is

to you, but he just needs to grow up here and just like, you know what? Just yeah. You just have to learn how to not let stuff bother you. But still she can't do that for him. Right? Yeah. We we had a couple weeks ago, a family member

came to church with some family from an extremely hardcore conservative church background. And

this guy managed to, you know, survive through our, you know, liberal music with drums and and our just, you know, our they she survived everything. Right. And and at the end of the service, he came to me and said, you're ashamed of Jesus. And I I I wish at the time I was talking to someone about their relationship with Jesus, which is kinda interesting. Right. And

and and I and he said yeah. He he did finish this. He said, you're ashamed of Jesus. His name's not on your sign. And he was trying to get me mad. You know? He was trying to hurt my feelings, do something that would somehow get and I'm just kinda smiling. I said, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who would, you know, have a different opinion to that. No. You're ashamed of Jesus. Blah blah blah. And and I just turned away and kept talking to this gal, he finally got frustrated and left. It's later on, they

were like, did did my dad, you know, attack you? And I said, I mean, yeah. I guess he thinks so. Yeah. Right. I don't know. I mean, it sounded like he gave it a shot. And someone else was saying, oh, Dan Dan, he he can handle that stuff. You know, it was like I mean, it was funny and sad, you know, but it didn't affect me. There's a lot of people it would affect, and and it they gotta learn to not let it affect them. I guess that's my whole point of that story. Right. It is that was on me. That was on me to decide if I was gonna ruin my day or or ruin my life or all of a sudden, oh, everything I've done is terrible. I'm ashamed of Jesus. Or say, this guy's man, he's a little cranky and probably needs to eat. Yeah. You know? I mean Maybe I'm the sensitive guy. That would wreck me. Yeah. I mean, Buba, you don't have to date every Jack and Apes that shows up at the door. I mean Just date it? What? If they they knock on the door and says, hey. You wanna go out? No. I choose not to go out with you. You're difficult, and I don't I don't give that any credence. Yeah. Fair enough. That's what like. It's people offering like, they we misunderstand the conversation. When people start talking to you, it's an offer. It's an offer to to to take that to take that in. Do you wanna dance? Yeah. That's right. Oh, man. My dance card's full with people who aren't nuts. I I feel like I've developed my personality to be something that's so extroverted that I can't even imagine what that's like.

And it's it's one of the total pitfalls that would wreck me. But yeah. No. Absolutely. And it's funny because people make fun of me all the time and it doesn't bother me. Yeah. For some reason, that would just mess with me. I don't know. Well, I mean, there's enough evidence to say I'm not ashamed of Jesus. Oh. You're right. You know? I'm not I'm not sensitive. Like, people call me fat on a daily basis. Like, people have literally, like, driven up to me to call me fat before. It's really funny. I've been I've been working out on the like, walking, and people will pull up to me and be like, hey, man. What's up, fatty fatty no friends? And I'm like, hey, buddy. I wanna sleep with your dog. Yeah. Definitely. It's like, hey. You know that I'm bigger than your vehicle? Yeah. You're calling me fat. I could flip it. Like, we could do this if you'd like to, and that wouldn't bother me. But, like, man, I don't know that's me. That is Well, I'm glad it didn't.

Boy, it really is it's it's more sad than anything, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, I can sum up your entire relationship with Jesus based on whether you wrote the Americanized English version of Jesus on your side, I guess. Yeah. Jesus was the real name. Come on, man. Oh, better do secular advice. I'm sure it'll be harsh Interested to hear this. Not caring at all.

Dear everybody, secular says, continue to encourage them to talk to each other. Other. But if you're not successful, accept that your father is an insensitive loose cannon who won't change. Limit your parents' visits and keep them short. Oh, boy. When you know they're scheduled to be in town, help your husband to plan out plan to be out of the house as often as possible. Jeez. And if that doesn't work, arrange to visit your parents alone rather than have them visit you. Yeah. Because, of course, that's conducive for a great marriage. Absolutely. Hey. My parents are coming into town. Don't you got a bowling league to be in? See you. As much as you might want the two men in your life to get along, it just may not be possible. PS. If the bullying your husband experienced as a child has affected his other relationships as an adult, he should consider getting therapy. It might change his life for the better. I I mean, that's I don't disagree with that statement. But yeah. Because the fact is, I mean, he it's gonna wreck him. Yeah. Yeah. And and so she knows her husband well enough to go. It's wrecking my husband. It's like, as much as I think that's bad advice, it's like you can't tell him to just suck it up and take it because it's gonna ruin the rest of his Right. Next week. You know? I mean, to be fair, I know some loose cannons. They appreciate other loose cannons. Yeah. Right? Why don't you just call your dad up and be like, dad, you gotta shut up, man. You're you're way too much. Oh, that's totally fair. You're slaying the room. You're making my husband feel like crap, and frankly, you're causing me a bunch of grief. Quit it. Fair. Shut up, old man. He'd go, oh, man. Your husband's kind of a wiener, but I suppose I can try to tone it down. See like that, dad. You gotta tuck that up. You can't say crap like that. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to limit the amount of time we spend together. Oh, I don't want that. Well, then shut up.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've heard people have all kinds of complaints about some kind of person who's, like, set in their ways. But, like, part of that is because you tolerated them being set in their ways. Right. Just be be clear that you're not required to tolerate them, and, like, everybody can freaking change. Ever here's the deal. You ever met a guy someone who's been married twice? Like, they got married, and then they marry someone else. Now, especially if it's if it's someone who's married for, like, a long time and they married somebody else, like, parts of them change. They change. They picked up somebody else, and, there's aspects of their behavior that starts to shift. And so this old dog new trick thing, not true. Not true. You they can they can behave differently. And, like, just who I am is garbage. That's garbage. And so, yeah, just you just don't have to look at color. Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit of a little bit of a tase. Dead? Yep. $18 on the net. Why did it make the wind noise? I I know how to do a shot. That's not a shot collar, Dan. That's a whoopee cushion. That's a wonder my my dog Understood. My dog has no respect for me.

I thought were they connected. Hey. You've been listening to life from the past. Hey. Things you might call the complaint land on this week. 51551700851. Perhaps you love the get and go. That's a personal problem, but I'd like to know about it. We can pray about it. Yeah. Or you think there's a better gas station than than the Quickstar. I mean, fight me. Call it. (515) 517-0085. Second of all, maybe we got this people thing wrong. Right? We need to double up on the apologetics or whatever. Like, I'd be interested. Like, are are you seeing this in your church? Do you feel like you're getting this right? And also, personally, like, you if need some prayer on this people thing because, like, it's so easy to farm it out. It's so easy to to point somebody else to it and say, my church is doing it. Bogus.

We gotta do it. And so, maybe you're interested in that. Also, maybe we've given terrible advice. You think we should allow them to, you know, do a feast of booze out there on on the headstone and, otherwise, not to rebuke the dad. Yeah. Whatever. You think we got it wrong? Let us know. (515) 517-0085. In the meantime, while you're out there snuffing your complaints up, go leave some reviews on your favorite podcast app. K? ITunes,

you know, whatever the Android platform is, Google Play. Just say, look. I dig on life for the path. Five stars. That's what I want. We really can't accept. Can we make it so you can only choose five stars? Nope. Nope. Well, that'd be great. I know. Love that. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's a failed system, really. Anybody else? If you in fact, if you're considering voting for five or less than five, I need to talk to you first. Like, something about your life ain't going right. You've listening to Live Path. We'll see you within a few weeks. Thanks for listening. In the meantime, be faithful means God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Life in the Path.