Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the past. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnson City. What was that? What do you mean? Is that kind of some kind of weird skirt you just did? Out with some jazz this time. Hey. It was a mistake. Hey. Thanks for hanging out with us for Live From The Path. Hey. Check this out. There there was a there was an article on Christianity Today. It said Christians debate paying ties to African churches closed by coronavirus.

What? Wait. What? So I think people are are worried about like, when churches are closed due to the virus, they're worried about sending money overseas. I'm sure you guys send money overseas. Dan, you have is this do you cross your mind? I mean, we send to the to the American

headquarters, whatever. Yeah. And then they wire stuff over once a month so they know what's going on. Yeah. Because they're in daily contact. So, no, I guess I'm not worried. Yeah. Like like this is the time where they got real problems. Yeah. They kinda like it's kinda like here. It's like, well, because you're not having church doesn't mean, like, the preacher doesn't still need to, like, eat and stuff. Right. Right. I mean Right. You're still probably you know, you're still heating and cooling the place or, you know, to a certain extent and Is that is that a is that a part of the conversation? Like, are are tithes way down because of this deal? I I've heard places are. Mean, ours are actually up. Yeah. But That's awesome. They would pay more money not to see you in person. This is great. Man, this online content is phenomenal. It's like a podcast I pay for. This is great. Oh, yeah. You know what's funny about the online sorry, Dan. What's funny about the online, preaching situation

is I actually find it allows you to have a little bit more of eternal internal discussions, like, with your own family. Mhmm. Like like when the guy's talking, because you don't have to worry about interrupting them or Yeah. Or or, you know, because of the atmosphere. Like, I can look over at one of my kids and go, do you understand what he's getting at here and blah blah blah? I'm like, oh, yeah. Or no, you know, I don't quite understand. And so, like, it gives a little bit more freedom of being able to talk about it without, like, causing a disruption. And so, like, I I don't know that that's all bad. Right? It's it's kinda nice. So you get to walk through it as you're being led as a family, you know, and then as the the leader of that particular area, I get to go, so do we understand what's going on here, right, what exactly we're talking about, and we can hit the things that are important. I can watch my kids spacing out and go, woah, hey, hey, this is why you're spacing out because you don't think it's important, but this is why, you brought it up, you know. And so like, I I don't know. I I thought it was okay. It was okay. It wasn't devastating or terrible or God's word not preached or anything, so I I thought it was actually alright. It's going okay for us. Yeah. Dan, you guys have been doing that for a few weeks. Yeah. What's been your reaction?

I I kinda like it, to be honest. I mean, it's it's weird like from a personal side Mhmm. To wake up and think, hey, I'm gonna hear me preach today. Right. Because, you know, I've uploaded it previously, so Right. There wouldn't be any Snafus. Snafus or whatever. But it's been in that sense, it's kinda neat if people have conversation. I can be part of the conversation while I'm teaching. Right. Right. You know, like, oh, this is no, this is it, you know. I meant this or that or that's the or here's clarification or whatever. Yeah. Have you have you do you watch yourself preach or listen back to your old sermons very often? No. Like, have you like, have would like, as as you get a chance to, like, reflect on the thing, do you go, you know, actually, I could've probably phrased that differently now that I hear it coming out this way. Yeah. I mean, I have before. Like, I thought something was exceptionally good or exceptionally bad Yeah. Usually.

So and I will. Just like, what made me think that? You know? Yeah. I because usually by Sunday afternoon, I'd be I I've already thought of, well, I could've done this or could've done that. Well Right. It's already too late now. I mean, there's no reason to live in the Yeah. Past Yeah. It's yeah. It's it's an interesting it's an interesting dynamic. I I think what what's happening is people are just missing people, though. Know, because the the can you can hear a sermon

sitting in a pew or on a computer or you can hear teaching anywhere. That's not nobody's missing me, you know. Or or maybe me as a person, they might be. But I mean, not like No one's like, boy, should we know, they would They can hear me anytime they want. We have a YouTube channel. Yeah. Right. But would you say, like, in general, I don't I don't I don't know that many people that do. Like, I I mean, once again, like, hang out with a crowd that listens to to podcast sermons or whatever, and like, they will listen to teaching throughout the week. I wouldn't say that's the norm. I wouldn't say, like, there's a bunch of people out there, you know, digging on online content all the time, you know, and listen to sermons all the time. So like now the the so where I see it as regular, because I do it a lot Mhmm. Do you feel like most peep this it's it's a change for a lot of people. I don't know. I think there's a core that does I mean, there's all you know, that's why these guys have thousands of views. Know? I mean, it's

know? I suppose they could have a Like their mom's clicking on it a bunch of times off the map. I know they're I love him. He goes off auto. I mean, that's a fairly popular thing. I know a lot of people who will just through have a podcast in their car while they're driving or Yeah. You know, whatever. But it's still it's detached, know. It's like, well, I've never met this guy. I don't but I like his teaching, so I'll listen to it. Right. But it's it's it's the local church. I I actually I think the smaller church will thrive through this whole thing more than the larger churches. I know I've heard of some larger churches already starting to cut salaries and staff, and they're they're usually pretty much on the margin anyway Yeah. Because they're always staffing, you know, aggressively. Well and and almost all a good amount of their staff is community outreach stuff. Right? Like Yeah. Youth minister and blah blah blah. And like like greeter and head dude and then head secretary. Head dude on here. I want that, Jeff. Yeah. Was I was actually thinking about this a little bit because, like,

I I had to lead worship through the the video. Boy, it is just awkward as all get out. Uh-huh. Just super awkward. Right? Like, song goes away and dies out and then, like, that's it. There's nothing going on. It's just me and my kids and my wife and I'm like, well Here we go. Here's the next one. Let's fire up the next two. Yeah. You know what's been surprising for that? Because so, like, we've done so we were on the other end of that for one. But we've been listening to Ren Collective has done a socially distant worship club for, like, the past two to three weeks, and they'll just get, like first, it was, like, all it's, like, four of them in a living room, and then the the the laws and stuff in Nashville got a little bit tighter and so now there's two of them. But like like watching a worship thing, I thought, oh, man, this is gonna be this is gonna be weird. It's been great. Now, it's not it's it's it's different than a music video. I don't sing along with music video. Someone produces a video or something or or puts on what's obviously performance, I don't feel I don't feel at all like I need to go sing along with that. But like intentional worship where four people sat in the living room and there's just one dude with the guitar and they're all singing. So, like, you feel like it'd be super awkward because you were in our living room and it's my wife and I and, like, we got four kids. One of them is yelling, screaming and stuff, the other three are kinda, like, casually watching, but, like, they're singing too. And, like, it doesn't feel weird to me to sing at a reasonable volume or maybe even a little bit beyond

singing worship with people who are who said, look, we're not putting on a performance here. We're here to worship. I'm like, great. I'm here to worship. We can do that. And that same thing happened on Mike for Sunday morning, So you did it, it was just your family, and we can see your family, and you're you're playing along. And there's, like, there's this the the don't take this wrong for for anybody, but, like, there's nothing produced about it. Right? Oh, no. It's it's intentional people sitting down and saying, look, we're just we're just worshiping here. And so you don't feel beyond it. You can feel part of it because it looks like something that you might be a part of. No. That's true. It looks like your place. Right. It looks like something would happen at your house. And that was the thing. I remember we were talking about this couple weeks ago with churches and choosing whether or not to do worship. Like, And, that's one of the things that was in my mind is, like, if it's if if it feels produced beyond what they would normally see and they it feels something like, it'll it'll feel like just something you're not part of anymore. When if it feels if if I I almost am afraid, like, even getting external microphones or better lighting in your area,

if you're not a church who otherwise does that, it starts to separate people from it because that's not what they're generally part of. Now it becomes a performance, and people people worship differently. It's the midi it's the mid grade performances that are tough. It's, the giant stadium performances, people are all freaking in. The the casual things in your living room, people tend to be all in. It's the middle performance that are so tough to get and to get right and to get people feeling comfortable because they don't know what to it's not the performance fault at all. It's just people don't know what to do. Am I in or am I listening? Am I part or am I contributing or could I be too loud? And the person like like, it's just a weird thing. Anyway, I so I will say that that socially distant worship club was cool because like, they're just got cell phones. Like, they're they're broadcasting to three network to to like Instagram, Facebook, and I think those two at the same time. And you're like, oh, I wanna kinda text going on there. They've got two two of the wives that are just holding up the phone, pointing around, you're like, that's exactly what I wanna do. I feel part of this.

So, anyway, I I it's been great. Like, it's been I mean, I think, obviously, I I prefer being around people, but, like, as long as you're genuine in how you as a church, as you go about this, I think it's fine. I think Yeah. There's a way for people to feel that way. And I think it's probably not gonna, reach the masses. Like, I think the at first, churches thought, oh, finally, we're on the World Wide Web, you know. People are gonna be listening from China. And it's like, no. They're they're gonna be listening because they know you. Yeah. Right. You know? Right. You know? And Which is great. Which is still fine. Like Yeah. You're still the local church. There's value in the local church. In fact, I think there is distinct value in the local church and that's why where there and we talked about this a little bit ago, there are millions, literally millions of guys who will do a better job teaching than me. But my folks still want to listen to me. Same thing with you, Dale. Right? Like, just if you have any humility in the world, you're like, I know. I know there's people that are better than this, but there is something so unique that God has created in the local church that it matters that Dan said it. It matters that he studied it. It matters what he thought about it. It matters that God spoke through him to say this thing. Even if the guy,

in in Texas or Los Angeles or London, is just the most eloquent speaker in the world, he's not Dan. Right. And and and Dan is the one that is caring for us. And it's it's so distinct. And so, like, that that that think is the wrong thing. Like, sometimes stuff reaches the matches, and that's great. But, like, if you if you if you posture for if you aim for the right target, if it needs to go beyond that, God will take it beyond that. But like as long as you're if you stick with what what you know that you're responsible for and what God has you doing, it'll feel right for those people, and then it'll probably translate well for the other people to start listening on it. And because that's what you want them to catch anyway. You don't want them to catch you posturing for 10,000 people. You want them to catch your community feel because that's what you're asking them to join in, not just the thing that you're teaching because, again, they can get that other places. I think it's great. I think it's I think it's a good exercise for the church, and frankly, it starts to weed some things out on what we think. And maybe even eliminates a thought that, oh, hey, there's a real there's a giant bucket of opportunity that I'm not reaching. I think proper humility is you go four to six weeks of this, and you're like, no. That wasn't really a possibility. I was never actually going to reach them. Now I'm digging in on these are my people. That's how I feel about this show. Exactly. There's a hardcore 20 people that love it.

Yep. That's as far as we're getting. Hey. Hey. Don't stop giving to the African churches, man. Look at these guys are in a in a pinch. Just like every church is is is is likely to face a pinch here. And some of that refining, I think, is probably good. It causes you to ask, what do we really value? What is worth paying? Where we have our money directed. But, like, for for a lot of churches, like, that's the felt. You're not carrying a lot of excess, and, people that need you to give above and beyond, they just need you to give faithfully like you would have if you were there, and you're probably gonna be just fine. I mean, shouldn't churches be seeing a slight heating and cooling savings and, cut down on donut purchases and, you know Yeah. I mean, you're not, obviously, you're paying for an infrastructure that's not currently getting used. That's not most of your money, though. What do mean? Most of money is the building and the salary. In fact, the vast majority of money is probably Yeah. But those those were already built into the budget. Well, but, yeah, people have to give money to cover the budget, man. Yeah. Tithing is up. Oh, for Dan. Dan and everybody. A lot of churches do not. It's up. A lot of stuff across the board. No. It's not. Numbers are up, man. It's not up. Oh, you see, the stock market? Is we've been doing online giving for forever, you know, so most of it comes online. Yeah. And you're benefiting from people forgetting that they signed up for the weekly weekly time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, we've had people leave at the church two years ago that still give. You know? And I'm like, okay. Yeah. Great. Mean, that's true. I was subscribed to an online game that I haven't played in five years, and I didn't cancel that. They're fine with that. Three months ago. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, great. Yikes. I mean, I've had that I've had that before, and I'm like,

yeah. I I'm fine with it too. I intend to still give. What do I care? Okay. Hey. You're listening live from Matt. Thanks for hanging out with us. Yeah. You know what? We're celebrating our ten year anniversary. We are. We are celebrating so I've been I loaded up some Facebook posts. I actually legit style decided I'd I'd put some celebrate our ten years, and so I've been trying to share a clip a day probably for the whole month of April is the goal. And so if you don't like the Facebook page, go out there and just hit it like. You can it's hard to say greatest hits. I it's just, you know There's stuff that happened. Yeah. The things we were around for. We were These are the best. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But you know what's interesting is I was looking through a few clips and, like, there were a few where I thought, Boofah probably has never heard this. Like, your your familiarity with the show and how often you were coming, some of the clips happened before you were doing that. Uh-huh. And so, like, one of the ones was

that Methuselah went to Nineveh and God smote him song. Yeah. Yeah. That one I made $5 on that deal. Yeah. That's coming up that's coming up in, like, another three to five days, I think, the on the Facebook post. It's one of the favorite things that my wife says, one of the one of the favorite things that I've ever done across my whole life. Really? That's it. Yeah. Okay. I can tell you can see what the Now benchmark I'm excited to see it. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, you guys were on for what? A year at least before I started coming. Right? With and with any consistency. I think it was two. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so, yeah, there's there's a few there's a few musical guests. There's a few I don't know if Pooh Tracker will make it into the rotation. Oh. I know what that is, but no. I'd I'd never watched that. I just we've talked about it. Here's the deal. I like to think that I would look back at it and be slightly ashamed of myself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. That's funny. Like, that was funny. Wasn't it in London? Wasn't that the thing? Like, the poo tracker was in England? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you could track it and see see what you flush the toilet, where it went. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. Actually, was the same episode as the Methuselah went to Nineveh. It was it was Man, this that might make the greatest hits. Yeah. It was a It was in the water that night. Yeah. Yeah. So Hopefully not poo. Something going on. Alright.

Let's see here. There was another I thought there was another article that I thought was oh, where are has been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Nope. Don't care about that. Don't care about that. Well, I don't think we're gonna care about that. Sakes, Graham. Listen to that guy. Who? Franklin Graham says coronavirus pandemic is result of a fallen world. I mean Oh my gosh. As much as anything is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Right. We are everything is. The fact of the matter that we're in a fallen world is true. Yes. I mean, so is Buva's hairstyle. Agreed. It's insane. Be in this gray. Hey, man. Tell me tell me. Don't you judge me. It's awful. I saw I don't even remember what outlet of social media was. There was a video of this old dude that looked like he had just gotten Botox. And Oh, I know. He was talking about Copeland.

He was like Oh, man. It's who? Kenneth Kenneth Copeland. Kenneth Copeland. Okay. He was, like, rebuking co coronavirus Yeah. And, like, yelling at it saying it has no power anymore. And I used to watch it. And the congregation was repeating after him everything he said. It was the most uncomfortable thing I've ever seen. Yes. Yes. What is that? Who is that guy? Gonna be honest. Copeland. He's been around forever. He has. Be surprised. He looks like he is as old as Methuselah. He's the he's the he's of the, like, the Jesse Duplantis and the Kenneth Copeland and the Oral Roberts. Oral Roberts. Yeah. More names I think are Yes. I don't know anything about it was like when televangelism wasn't mocked,

and it felt like it was a real thing. Yeah. Is is that the same era as the it it was a thing I've seen, like, five times in the last ten years, but there was this dude that was speaking in tongues. And at one point in time, he, like, starts saying, like, oh, baba kanda. Probably Robert Tilton or something. Maybe. I don't know. It just seems like it's all from the same era. Like, was just Same people. Same theology. Fair enough. Yeah. I was born in '91, and so I was never around for any of this stuff. I've missed the Babaconda ways as well. Tilton was the farting preacher. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No way. Okay. Alright. If it's sad that that's exactly okay. Fair enough. I was like, there were all these I think it was TikTok, actually. I was it was this video, this ten second video of of what was going on, and then everybody was just destroying this and saying, I can't believe Christians believe in this stuff. And, like, I can't believe this. This represents mainstream Christianity. Like, my heart was hurting, and I'm just like, this is what represents us? This is still to this day what most of I it's not even a specific generation on TikTok anymore, but, like,

these people were all just jaded about this is the Christian community, and this used be. That was all that was on TV. Yeah. Really? It was that type of stuff. No, man. That's I mean, that was it for Christianity. The TBN is that what it's called? TBN? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like all that stuff. And that's why we that's why we're so wildly popular, so we have some, you know, solid biblical content. Alright. Now hold on. Now bring this back out of the clouds because right because here's the thing, is we believe stuff like this can happen. Right? Yes. We believe that that, like like, god can could could knock the thing out of you. Absolutely. Absolutely could could do it. Right? By going

Yep. I don't know why he's gotta do this. Yeah. He called it he called it a wind. Yeah. He was the wind of God. Yeah. I blow the wind of God on you. So, like, it's this is where it comes out of the clouds. There's a difference between petitioning the Lord and saying, God, you are mighty and you are sovereign, and we ask you as your people to step in on this thing. That's that's that's a humble way of stretching it. Saying, I have the wind of God, and I and I blowing it out of my face. Hey. You you know what? Perfect example. Like, that is the exact thing that got Moses in the straits. Right? Right. Right. Like, I have the stick. I will do the tapping. Yep. This is the exact thing that caused Moses problems. It's it's the reason that that, like, I I I always couldn't never get to quite to the bottom why I had a problem with, say, faith healers. Right? Like, calling upon God to to heal something is legit. Yeah. Biblically legit. Right. Right? But, like, it's because they're not asking, they're telling. Right? They're saying I have the power to do. They're trying to own something that belongs to And God's prerogative is to do or not do. Right? It's his prerogative to do if he wants to do. Mhmm. Right? But, like, acting as if you represent Yahweh and the things that he's going to do, unless you definitely do, which, obviously, the wind is not taking the coronavirus down, so I would say it is not. Yeah. Yeah. And he said listen to this. He says,

it's it's it's just things that should hit you when people say it, and you're like, that don't make any sense. He says, I blow the wind wait. Wind, almighty strong south wind, heat, burn this thing in the name of Jesus. Satan, you bow your knees. You fall on your face, COVID nineteen. I blow the wind of God on you. You are destroyed forever, you will never be back. Thank you, Lord God. Let it happen. Cause it to happen. The wind of God, it doesn't have to be a fast wind. It doesn't have to be a fast wind. What? Oh, well, good, the lord says. Thanks, Copeland. Lord, if you would like to gently blow your wind upon all of us Yeah. So that COVID nineteen can be eradicated He says at the same speed that a vaccine might help. It hates heat. It hates humidity. It hates water. It just dies. It's even better. I just heard the lord say this because I've witnessed it. Oh, come on. It's even better if there is no wind at all. Just enough heat to keep them from killing them people in New York City, he chuckled. What? Okay. I didn't even see any of that stuff. That just makes it so much interesting. So the hardest thing to take in here is like and and we are we struggle with this. Right? Like, there's a good section of Christianity that struggles with platitudes like this Mhmm. When people are dying.

Right? Like, people are sick. People are are struggling here, and you go, the wind of god will destroy this. Well, when? Well, when? Like, after it kills, like, my cousin? You know what saying? Like, if you're gonna say that, you better be prepared to like, you cannot you you can't reconcile everybody's strong opinion against Yahweh or Jesus or Christianity

with a platitude. Right? And so, like, whatever you thought was comforting out of that, realize if they don't hold God as sovereign or agree that he's good Yep. Then your words are not doing anything for them. You sound callous and rude. Yeah. All you're doing is representing a god that very well might not do what you're saying. Like, I I would it is completely in his power to exactly that. But what you set the situation up for is if that doesn't happen, then it's just further proof that that he doesn't exist, and it's further proof that he doesn't care and doesn't have that kind of power. And then further example of how Christianity is is is

shown and and how it's shown by these kind of people. Like, it's ridiculous. All you're doing is breaking down the trust that or the relationship that God could create with this person. You are you are setting themselves these people up for failure because all they're gonna look at is see you and go, I can't associate with a god that that says that that's alright. So so this I mean, think think about this. This this type of of situation and we had this happened a little bit when nine eleven came around. Right? Like, this type of situation where big a big thing happens, and people are like, where else do we go? What do we go to? What do we turn to for any hope? Where are we sourcing our hope out of? And and you it's your duty to try to explain a god that would allow nine eleven to happen, that would allow the coronavirus to happen. Right? And and the flu for that matter as far as we're comparing things. Right? You know what I'm saying? So so, like, when you show up and say, don't worry. God's got this. From their perspective, they're going, got what? What are you even talking about? The coronavirus still exists. People still ran into our our buildings with planes. What do you mean? Got it. Exactly. You know, and, like, it's it's it's not it's not a there's not a bad time to introduce people to the hope of Jesus Christ. Right? But there there is a way of approaching it when you try to minimize the thing that's happening to them. Obviously,

that Jesus is not minimizing it. Right? Like, God's not minimizing the hurt that that person's going to or the fact that we were attacked or the fact that there's a there's a pandemic that are that are making people sick. God is not up upstairs laughing. Right? Like, he weeps for the world that we live in. And and as much as I think Franklin Graham's a blowhard, yeah, it's it is a result of a fallen world. God created a perfect world, and we cracked it. Right? And because of that crack, things happen Yep. Like disease and sin and selfishness and whatever. The long list of things that God never intended for his kids. Right? But nonetheless, here we are. And God has to say, look, I I have a way to rescue out of this, but you have to take it. And so trying to introduce somebody to how to take it while minimizing the thing they're go that they're going through completely negates God's heart. That is not God's heart on them at all or their situation that they're in. And I think that's the problem with saying things like that or acting in that way is is where where we're trying to get across the point that God is all knowing, all powerful, and he does have this under control. Not once does Jesus minimize the fact that Lazarus died. Right. Not one I mean, it's specifically called out that on his way to Jerusalem, he weeps for for his town that will not come come back to him. Right? God he's never minimizing the thing that happened. The guy that said, hey, I gotta bury my father. Right? Like and he's like, yeah. Look. You gotta go you let the dead bury their own dead. Right? But, like, didn't ignore the guy, didn't downplay him, didn't minimize him, just said, this is the thing. Let's do this. Right? And so like, it's it's I think it's the tactic that's hard to take when you minimize what people are going through, then you are not taking God's heart on the situation. Mhmm. I liken it to the same situation of of when when my parents passed away, I heard so many people do the whole,

it's okay. God's got a plan for this. God has a plan for this. I'm literally I'm I'm mourning the death of my parents, and everyone's like, just wait till God fixes this. Just wait. He's he's he reigns supreme and all these difference all these statements that that were just service to themselves and not to actually understand where I was coming from. I was furious with God. I was furious with him. My dad was a great dude. He just straight up was. I I I'm not trying to exalt him in any way. He just was. And my thought as an 18 year old that just lost his father to a heart attack, I was like, there are rapists, and there are murderers, and there are people that are awful that are still running around living, and God decided to take my father.

He took my dad with him, and you're gonna look me in the face right now and say, oh, God's got a plan for this. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be alright. I there was a spit in my face when people would say this stuff. It didn't help me in any way. It helped those people feel like they were doing their good deed for the day. And I'm not saying they weren't in sometimes in the right heart or anything like that. Yeah, in the whole picture, they don't know what to say. I mean, they never let him completely off the hook. Right? Like Right. No. But there's there's grace for it. Absolutely. It but the whole thing is we're all feeling this right now. It is okay to understand that we are all going through a traumatic experience. This is something that most of us have never gone through at all in any way, shape, or form. It is traumatic. Things are changing. Our world is being turned upside down. It is okay to go, man, this sucks. Right. It's crazy. It's alright to just go, dude, this is insane. Christians do not have to be the ones to say, well, God's got this and all this different stuff just by using that statement. Show it.

Absolutely show it with your actions. Show that we live without fear, and show that we live in a world that is completely ran by our our god and ran by Yahweh. We show that in our actions, but it doesn't mean that we walk up to strangers and just be like, everything's okay. God's got it. I mean so, like, think of it this way. What what would it be mean to you if someone came up to you in the middle of the street and goes, hey. I know everything's rough here, but Baal has this. Right. Mhmm. Right? Or Zeus Zeus has got this under control. You know Rod, the sun god? Alright. He's just got this done. Don't worry about it. Thank you. Yeah. Like, even if it's like, we you just because you know that it's true doesn't mean that people are gonna hear it the way that you're thinking And so, like, can you love people enough to not be so arrogant as to say they would hear it how I would hear it? Like, people's lives and circumstances and events and things they bring to it, I just don't You know what's a great thing to do right now? Show them that you love them and care for them. Talk to people that may be in a rough spot and ask them if you can help. Whenever I go to the grocery store right now and I'm not putting myself up in any way. I'm terrible person. Yeah. Here we go. Rev it up, booba. No. I'm I'm a horrible train. I'm a horrible person. I lifted up the self checkout, and I took it and brought it to an old lady in Aisle 10. So they could disappear. Ma'am, do you need this? Oh, man. Thank you, fellas. Hoover's got this. I actually I was trying to ramp up to that in a good way, and then it just got broken down. I appreciate that, actually. You have a great I'm a prideful story. No. It it's I actually whenever I go to the grocery store, I I I text at least one person, and I go, is there anything you need at your your place right now? Anything.

Because I'm right by your house or even if I'm not right by your house, I was thinking about you, and I wanted to make sure if you if I could stop you from having to make a grocery run to leave your house right now, even if it's just a man, I don't have tomatoes for that salsa I was gonna make. Cool. I'm a grab them real quick. I'll be over. I'll drop them off. I don't have to talk to you. I'll leave them at your front door. Something small. There are so many people who are reaching out to me that way. That's I didn't come up with that idea. Someone did it to me, and then I reciprocated it. So I'm not a good dude. I'm just seeing things that are happening, going out of dig on that. But I'm doing that because it's an action. It's a way to show someone that I care about them rather than going, hey, man. Everything sucks right now, but Yahweh's in control, which is a true statement, but you're absolutely right then. If they don't see it the way that I'm gonna see it, it's it's useless. And the the hard part about the current situation is we we got kind of a split in the population where some people are devastated and thinking, man, things are terrible. And other people are like, I'm fine. You know? And we kinda talked about that last week. Yeah. Right. Yep. But we're having the conversation now, like, we're planning to do a parking lot service on Sunday, and I'm kinda starting to think. I was gonna ask what how that's been stewing in your mind. I I am literally back and forth. And, you know, like, if you wanna see each other, as long as you follow the rules, and we won't do communion because we're not gonna, you know, keep the windows up, you can't come in the building, the doors will be locked, You know, all that stuff. Yeah. Follow the rules that that that comply with the governor's thing. But then the neighbors drive by Uh-huh. Who are, by the way, on the way to Walmart Yep. And they're gonna be all mad at us because we're killing everybody That's right. Because we're together. Although, we're not. You know? It's it's the optics. You know? You know, I thought about you guys because so did you guys hear about the scoop the loop night that happened

the other night downtown? I haven't heard any details yet. So I was there. I went. So People were getting out, weren't they? Yes. So for those of you in not in Des Moines, there's a thing called scoop the loop. It's that's same the thing you've ever heard of in your downtowns. You drive around downtown and you hang out in your cars, and everybody shows off what they've got. It was what you did when you were 13 or 16, and you're redoing it at 30. Right? Yeah. And so it was a big thing. Like, there were probably, I'd say, at least a 100 cars there that were driving around the loop and hanging out. It was cool. I liked it. I was excited about it. I was driving, and I wasn't, like, speed. I had my seat belt on. I was making sure I wasn't being pulled over. Old man's Oh, dude. Straight up. It was exactly that. I drive an old I drive a crappy car that has dents in it and messed up wheel. It does not look good. I can't hear NPR with your hooting. I was not in the yeah. Exactly. I was not in the sweet ride at all, but it was so much fun to just kinda be a part of something again Yeah. And have some semblance of normalcy that it was a gathering. But then people kinda messed with it because there were groups of people outside of their cars, and the cops showed up. I was I was very happy that the police were there. That's my fear. They'll show up here. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, absolutely. Yes. 100 doing this. Yep. And so over in compliance. Police showed up, and they talked to groups of people, and they were pulling people over. And, I mean, there's probably so probably a 100 cars. There are probably 10 cops around to make sure that everything was fine. And I appreciated that they were there, but, like, there are people that ruined it. And it was it was fully lighthearted. It was literally somebody that started a Facebook group and went, yeah, it'd be kind of fun, wouldn't it? Yeah. And so they made an event, and it got shared, you know, 12,000

times or whatever. And then people went, and it was fun. We drove around, and we you know, people were cranking up their music, and it was it was it was a blast. I liked it. But then there were people who ruined it. There were people that were sitting outside of their cars, huge groups of people, probably 20 people plus, and they got in trouble. And there are people blasting that event on Facebook going, I can't believe you all are so irresponsible, and I can't believe you went. What's it gonna be like if one of your family members dies and I hate you. You're the reason I can't see my father in the hospital, blah blah blah. If you would've just stayed home, this would all be done by now, which that's whatever. You are mistaken. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Sorry. You are mistaken. No data that says that what's you cannot in any way claim that. Yeah.

But, yeah, no, it was it was supposed to be a lighthearted thing, but then it turned into this disaster, and people are completely ripped apart for it right now. And it's crazy. It stinks that things that are meant to be lighthearted and fun and and just to get some semblance of normalcy for people. I mean, people that hadn't done that in twenty years were like, yes. I'm gonna get my kids together, put them in our minivan, and then go downtown at 06:30 at night and drive around the loop for twenty minutes and have fun with it and explain that nostalgic memory to my children. And it was fun for them, but then people had to go and ruin it because they they're outside and they were messing it up. And so yeah. Right now, we're still planning on a nine and a 10:30. But this is what I threw a lot of informal poll Uh-huh. Our little groups. So so so here's the options. We're gonna do the 10:30. We're gonna do livestream anyway. Right? Yeah. And we're also doing a 09:00 and a 10:00 parking lot thing. Here's Bay Squirrels. Where are you planning to come to? And I was like, right now, overwhelmingly livestreams. Now I'm like,

really? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because I thought, well, people really, really wanna do it. I'm I'm good. I wanna do it. I wanna do this. It's my idea. Know? I'd be well, I mean, I'm not I wanna do the things I come up with. That's okay. I'm the one who wants to do this. I won't see Easter fail. I invented the question mark. Haven't you used it? I mean, I bought the stuff so we'd have it. And but then I don't know. Like I say, I go back. It depends all the day. I go back and forth. And I'm like and it's not it's not out of my fear. I I have no fear of this. Mhmm. I'm I'm I'm just worried of do we ruin the witness? Yeah. Right. That's all I'm worried about. And and maybe, those people don't like you anyway. They don't care anyway. You know? Yeah. Like I say, they're on the way to Walmart or they wouldn't even know you were having a problem. Exactly. Yeah. That was the thing. People that took pictures of all the people out there were the ones who were out Yeah.

Right. You didn't get that photo without being they critical. That's what I'm trying to process. Uh-huh. And you tried I can. Have you tried invoking the south wind? It doesn't have to be a quick wind. Yeah. That's true. A slow south wind. It can be an encroaching slow south wind. Can we do a god windy? Hold on. Hold on. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna play it. Oh, yes. Really? I I don't know if you guys will be able to hear it. Can you guys hear anything? And not everybody's wearing headphones on. I got headphones on. Okay. That'll work. I don't know. Try them, Dan. Can you hear me? Oh, yeah. I hear you. Alright, Dan. Mike, you're gonna have to suffer. I don't care. Okay. Here we go. I'll do it for you. COVID nineteen? Yep. COVID nineteen. Oh. I'm blown.

I'm blown. The wind of god. God. The The wind wind of of God. Who? On you. On you. You are destroyed forever. You are destroyed forever. He's looking at And you have never. Looking at the COVID.

Well, that's he can yank. Get more COVID into the airwaves. Oh, man. Let it happen. Who are those other dudes? Yeah. I was gonna say why there's no dudes up there. They're up there for support. They're agreeing with him. There's not six feet between them. Come on, man. That kills me. So many people are ripping Now here's the thing. I watched I watched kind of an extended clip of that. Yeah. I wanna say either today or yesterday or something. And like, I I hesitate to even say this out loud. That guy feels like demonic to me. Like Yeah. I in his eyes Yep. I just see it. I'm like, ah. And and to be fair, people have mocked him for thirty years. No. Right. Right. It's not this is Oh, really? It's like, oh, Kenneth Cole, man. He's falling falling off. No. He's been doing this stuff. Oh, okay. That I wasn't Since I was in college. Okay. Gotcha. I mean He's the is not a new knee. He's the same guy he's been. Yeah. Yeah. But it just it just it so sniffs the opposite of of Yahweh that that it it feels it's it's manipulation, and it's it's lies, and it it tries to take God's power and put it onto himself. And who do you know who does that?

Yeah. Wasn't he I think he was also, like, kinda blown up recently on something because, one of the things he put on his message was, don't you stop tithing? You better not stop tithing. You you better give you better give more than you ever did before because, blah blah now here's the deal. I agree with that. I agree with that statement. There's no deal. I I absolutely agree with that concept. You should not stop your tithe. If you are if you are unemployed right now, you don't stop your tithe. If you're getting any kind of income, you don't stop your tithe. It's about You do that. But, like, coming from him, it just hit me wrong. It was weird because he was just like, Jesus is in control. Agreed. You don't stop your tithe. Agreed. You keep going. Agreed. Him? Yep.

Yep. I don't know. I mean I don't know. Someone's gotta someone's gotta keep him looking like a vacuum salesman. I oh, man. I just it killed me. I'm like, come on, man. Here. Let me let me to this. And, like, you see a guy like that talking and he gives you the wheelies, turn them off. Turn them off. Yeah. By the way, the holy pest. Here's the thing. If you don't think the holy spirit deals in willies, you're mistaken. The holy spirit deals in willies. I've there've been occasions say heebie jeebies? Hey. We've had we've had that occasion we were running this show. Yes. We've had people in here and, like, you're and we're looking around. We're like, boy, this don't feel right. And it wasn't words necessarily that people were saying, and I I couldn't tell you anything specific that I mean, stuff that might felt a little bit wonky. But, like, just as a whole, we're like, that guy's never coming back. I have I have a confession to make. I think I think this is a good time to to do this. Okay. I'm excited. Because this goes back to probably 1983. Oh, no. He had an an LP, an album out, and he had a song,

blow the trumpet in Zion. And I bought the the album, the full length album because he had that song on it, and I could listen to it in my dorm room. Yeah. Wait. That'd do it? I bet yeah. Yeah. Wait. He's a singer? Well, he sure thought so. Hey. I mean No. That's the best answer. That's back swaggered. He'd sing, and then he'd get up and preach, and he did the same thing. I mean, he sold an album to Dan. Yeah. That's right. It was at the bookstore. Yeah. Dan was a discerning gentleman at the time. Google it. Blow the blow the trumpet in Zion. Kenneth Copeland. I'm a see if I can find I was gonna say, we gotta figure out if we can add that to our rotation. Seems like there's clouds, I remember. I probably still have the old You say it was a picture of him? No. No. No. Oh, I thought he, like, put himself as an angelic figure. Blow the trumpet in Zion Zion.

Oh, wow. That was great. I hope it sounded like that. It definitely yeah. It's been a few years since I heard it. Dan, it's all good. You guys will love it. You're a phenomenal singer. I mean, I'm willing to Amazon Music it on the way home just checking Yeah. I'm definitely gonna check this Here's the thing. I never understood, like, the televangelist gig. Like, I've seen what what pastors do on a pretty regular basis and, like, I mean, what a horrible way to make money. You know what I'm saying? But it's millions. If you're I Millions. But if you're not in it if you're not in it for the for the for the hope of Jesus Christ, I just I just feel like if you have any any heart at all, it would be draining and defeating and like I I mean, I don't think you can actually be a shepherd of people

without Jesus. I don't know how you do it. Like, it's just a nonstop barrage of a cracked world all the time. And his solution I shouldn't say that. Don't know the man. But, like, maybe the televangelist normal solution is to fix it with money. Right? Give me money or you'll get money or somehow Well, it's a sign of your faith. It's it's sign of a call. I just did and and yep. And I've never seen I've never seen that be true. I've I've only seen money ruin people. I've never seen it impress upon them or add to them. Right? I've seen people do great things with money, but I've never seen it take a situation that they're in and turn it around ever. Not one time. Yeah. We heard that, Ben. I can't I'm sorry. I don't I I I want the original. I don't want I don't want the Gaither vocal band. Oh, no. I wanna see Ken Copeland knocking it out of the park. I'm a keep I'll I'll find it. It's there. It's there. Trust

me. Alright. Alright. Anyway It's a classic. That's I mean, what was the album cover, Dan? Him blowing a trumpet. It was either him blowing a trumpet or there might have been some clouds. I could be mixing a couple up. It was a cloud blowing a trumpet. Yeah. It was very confusing. I could I could get down on that. He was more impressionistic. So I was I've been I I had to get out and about this week. So oddly, I I normally work from home. Well, not normally. I mean, most of the time, I work from home, like, 60% of the time. And so when the when the thing happened and I had to work from home all the time, I didn't feel like it was gonna be a big deal. And for the most part, I've been home. But a couple like, IT technical things have happened to, to me over the last week, and so I had to go out. I had to drive

into work. And so, I was in there Friday. Last Friday, I had to drive into work and I I thought it was odd. Like, I expected to go downtown and to for it to be dead. Has anybody been out and about? Mike, have you been out and about? Oh, yeah. Yep. Like And I expected downtown to be dead. It was not. No. There was nothing dead anywhere. No. No. There was I mean, there are all kinds of people out. And for the life of me, thought like, they don't work down here. Like, there's some people that are working downtown, but realistically, most of downtown is is not working. Right. And so it was it was just it was just super odd. So anyway, I I have to take around the corner to go into the parking garage or whatever. Turn up and like there's this there's this line there's this line of people. Oh, you found it. Oh. Oh. It is a picture of him. Oh my. Oh. Yes. Indeed.

Boy, that's Sorry. It's like John Travolta. I don't know how to take him in. He does not look like John Volta. He does like a grease. No. Yeah. Grease lightning. No. Spirit wind is the That is not Danny Zuko. I just called spirit wind. He's been talking about spirit wind forever. I wish it was him in an action shot going. What do you think he practiced that? 83. Yes. He practiced that. No. Practiced doing in the mirror. That had to be ad libbed. I feel like that was doing it for so many years. Mean The spirit went apparently.

Yeah. He does that tech before me. He does it at home when there's drums on the dinner room. Trademark. Butter table. The south wind that's hot because it's not the north cold wind of the lord. Anyway, we've heard about the four winds. Anyway, so I I was I was downtown and but I saw a line going to like like, it was for the food court, and I thought there's no way all these people are waiting for food. I don't know what they're doing down here. And so I I kinda peeked over the railing and I heard people talking and

kinda gathering around this food court. So I I took the elevator downstairs to see whether the, like, the food court was open or whatever, and it turns out, like, everything's closed. It's but all these people were gathering because there was a rumor that the pope was in town. Oh. And I said, I don't know why I don't know why the pope would be around during the COVID. I've seen him teaching out on the deal, but it sounds like it's easier for him to travel because with all the people hidden away in their houses, they can't see the pope will be able to make a break for it, where normally the pope goes anywhere and people have a good eye on him. So anyway, he likes to find respite here in in the middle part of The United States where there's plenty of distance between folks, but the the rumor on the street was is that he was he was, like, gonna land in Altoona. And so I asked him, well, where? I said, I mean, I'd like to take it in and just to see it. So it's an experience. It's like seeing Obama, you know? And so I take in, and it tells me where it's gonna go, and I'll I'll be doggone

if it wasn't Boova's house. He's going to Boova's apartment. Yeah. And and so the the the problem is is those all those people in the food court followed him out there because they wanted to see, hey, man. Is the pope gonna come out and speak something to us? We're we're worried in this this land of COVID. And so, Buva now ultimately has to deal with these people hanging outside of his apartment complex. And so, I mean, what'd tell him, Buva? So I I talked to him about loving their enemies. Mhmm. It's what I did, Ben. Okay. That

that whole concept of loving your enemies has has hit me really hard recently, like super hard. And it it it kinda came to a spearhead for me the last couple days more than I ever thought it would because I I just I don't have enemies, I guess. Like, I just don't. I don't really have people that are against me. And if I do, they I just don't care. And so it doesn't really bother me at all usually, so it's not really a thing. But there are a couple people in my life that, like, sometimes they are just straight up at odds against me and are are just 100% enemies. And so

I found myself in a spot recently. The last couple of days, this guy that I know has just been a complete jerk to me. Just absolute jerk to me. And unfounded, he's just in a rough spot, and he's angry about some stuff in his life, and he's just got he's got a lot going on. And and I get it. I understand where he's coming from, but, like, he's just a jerk sometimes. Right? And, like, I can't stand that. I I wanna care about the guy, but I just can't stand that sometimes. And so, yesterday, I I I had to help him for a couple things, and I just I wasn't happy about doing it, but I did it.

And it was whatever. And the whole time, he was just angry and making backhanded comments and just was was upsetting me quite a bit. And, like, it really upset me to the point where, like, I didn't really wanna talk to him anymore. And so I left the place and and went about my day. And then today rolls around, and I just couldn't get him off my mind. Like, I could not stop thinking about him. And I'm just like, why is this dude in my head? Why am I thinking about this guy? And it wasn't like I was angry and was seething about it. Like, I can understand that. I'm I'm a pretty big schmuck, and so most of the time, it wouldn't surprise me if I was just like, man, I'm a think about this dude for a while because I can't stand him, and it just kinda fuels my hate fire to sit here and think about him. Right? But so I I kept thinking about him. Like, there's a reason this dude's stuck on my brain. There's a reason this dude is here. I gotta figure this out. And so I I kinda made up a weird situation where I I went over to his place, and I asked him if I could use his his kitchen because I said that I had to come to the show tonight,

and I didn't have time to run home and make myself anything, and I needed to get some food in me. And so I couldn't just grab fast food because that's not a whole deal. So I gotta I gotta get stuff right. Wait a minute. Sorry. I don't mean to interrupt the story, but I mean, how close are you to this cat? Is this is this come off like a really odd request to him probably? No. It doesn't come off as an odd request. I'm pretty close to him. And so I showed up, and I I cooked myself just some scrambled eggs real quick. And he was he was being fine with me. He wasn't really upsetting me. He wasn't angry. But I could tell that it kinda was ready to turn at any moment. And he kept he kept mentioning his dishes. Like, he was upset that his dishes weren't done. K? And so I'm like, well, okay. He and he goes, and my lady's gonna do them because I've done them. He goes, I've done them the last seven times. I go, alright. Well, it's a good thing that you're keeping count. That's that's a good start to the whole situation, especially if you wanna alleviate the stress. Just keep track. That's a good idea. Uh-huh. And

he goes, I just it's a pain in the butt to to wheel out the dishwasher and, like, hook it up because it's a portable dishwasher. They've got a hookup. And I'm like, why don't you just hand wash the dishes? And he goes, it just it's it's too much sometimes. And that's what he said. I've done it the last seven times. I'm like, alright, dude. Don't worry about it. And he goes, I'm sorry. She should have done that by now. I'm just and he's just he's just angry and spiteful in his talk. And so I'm just like, I know this dude. I know his heart, and I know that he's a good guy when he wants to be. And a lot of the times, there's just stuff going on in his brain that just does not allow him. I'm not making excuses for him, but he he's a schmuck. But sometimes it's just like his brain just takes over and will not allow him to be in a good place. And so I recognize that sometimes when dishes pile up,

it gets really overwhelming. Like, I don't know if you guys ever been to a place where, like, dishes, like, straight up piled up, like, bad. Part of my depression at one point in time was, like, any menial task, I just would not do. I had I had it was, oh, too overwhelming, and just not doing it was way easier than even trying to do one dish, specifically for dishes for me for a long time. And it was overwhelming. It was it was debilitatingly overwhelming to the point where I would, like, I would cry sitting at the foot of my bed at night not being able to sleep and thinking to myself, why can't I just go into my kitchen? If I literally just take the fact that I can't sleep right now, walk in, and do dishes, it'll be fine. I can get them done. It'll take thirty minutes.

I could not do it. My brain, my depression would not allow for it. It was winning. And so I saw the I saw the reflection of that in this situation, and I saw that in both of them. And it was like both of them were defeated. They defeat each other a lot, him and his wife. And I could tell that this was this was a thing between the both of them. It had piled up. It wasn't just a day. It was it was a bit. And so I literally I just looked at it. I'm just like, I have to do these dishes. I have to. Yeah. I cannot leave here tonight without doing these dishes. And my my immediate brain thought was,

I'm so angry at him still. I do not wanna do these freaking dishes. Like, I don't wanna do anything for I don't wanna serve him. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. This dude was a jerk to me yesterday, not twenty four hours ago, was a total jerk to me. I don't wanna do this. But then it hit me again. I'm like, he's been on my mind all day, And now I'm here, and now I have the opportunity to do something. I could just serve him. I'm not gonna bake a big deal out of it. I'm not gonna tell him I'm doing it. I'm not gonna go, hey, man. Did you see it? I'm literally just gonna let him sit on his butt, watch his TV show, and and let his lady do her thing. I'm just gonna do the dishes. And so I sat there for, like, an hour and a half, and I did dishes.

And, like, it sucked. Oh, I didn't wanna do it, but, like, I knew I had to. I knew there's a reason for it. And so they both were they they were getting upset about it with each other. They were like, this should have been done. They were embarrassed and all this different stuff. I'm like, guys, just just get over here real quick, please. And they walked over, I'm like, I want you to know this is not a thing. This is not a thing to get upset about. This is not a thing to be embarrassed about. You don't have to get angry with one another that it's gotten to this point, and you don't have to get mad at at yourself because you haven't done it. I'm not doing this with the expectation of calling you out. It has nothing to do with shaming you in this situation. I love both of you. I care for both of you, and I recognize how overwhelming this can be. You've got a family. You've got boys here. You've got a family that's staying home longer than they ever have. There are so many outside stressors right now that's making this just seem like an impossible thing. It's okay. Stop freaking out. Go sit down. Watch your show. I'm gonna keep doing this. If I ask you a random question, it'll probably be where do I put this dish away? But that's it. I'm not trying to bring it back up to make it seem like, oh, it's such a big it's not. It's freaking dishes. Let me do it. And so I did it, and I got, like, three quarters of the dishes done, but, like, you can you can see the sink now. The sink was completely cleaned out. All the stuff that I didn't get to was at least soaking in hot water so that when they did do it because they said to me, well, she's gonna be doing it tonight anyway, so don't worry about it. I'm like, well, forget that. I'm just gonna get it done. So the whole time, they were like, are you doing the dishes? And I'm like, no. I'm just I'm making room so I can wash my dishes that I made when I made my dinner tonight. And they're like, oh, shut up. I'm like, no. I just I needed to make room, so I figured I might as well just do these dishes. And so I get done with them. It's what and I and I I say to him, I love you. Again, don't let this be a shameful thing. This was not about pointing it out, and it's not about sitting here and feeling bad about it. It has nothing to do with with anything besides the fact that I love you both.

I recognize that this sucks. I know everything is overwhelming right now, and it literally feels like the world's on fire. Now you don't have to worry about the dishes. It's one thing you don't have. I can't clean everything. I can do this. I love you. And I walked out, and I didn't ask for thank you. I didn't sit there and wait for I literally just walked out, got my car, drove straight here. And so to not to make it selfish, but I feel amazing that I just listened at the fact that something was calling me to just do that. I did not want to do it. I'm not a cool dude because I did dishes. I just felt like God was tugging at me just doing, hey, man. You need to be here for this dude for a second,

and just be around him and show him you love him. And it it it's funny because him and I have had a past that's just been riddled with, I mean, just loathful and stuff loathsome stuff that we've said to each other and mean vicious comments back and forth. We've said some of the meanest things to one another and did some of the meanest things to each other, and that's not how it should be. But like it was just it was this moment where I was like, just stop. Take a step back. Realize that he's angry for a reason. You you recognize what that's like. Just love him. Serve him for a second and love him. That's all you have to do. And don't make it a big deal. Just walk away. And it was such a freeing and peaceful thing for me that it helped kinda calm the storm in my brain where I was angry, and I was I was mean, and I was upset about yesterday. And instead of getting more upset about it like I usually do, I just decided I was like, forget it, man. I'm gonna go serve him and love him. Like, how can I do that and then and just deal that? And the anger went away. It went it it disappeared entirely.

I don't even remember what all was said on Sunday. I don't care. It's it's gone. And, like, that was a blessing to me because it was gonna it was gonna ruin my week if I just sat there and just I I just festered on this angry situation that I was in. It was only going to bring me pain by continuing to go over it. And instead, I just decided to do what I needed to do and love him even though I didn't want to and even though I wanted to be angry in in in the back of my mind sometimes. I'm like, whatever. It's done. And so I I I'm not I'd there's nothing more than that that I'm gonna tell you. I you you everyone who's read the love your enemies, I'd take a step back and read it again. I I would I would really go through it and recognize that

love is rarely anything but an action word when it's talked about in the bible. It's just it's not a word that's usually representing a feeling. It's more representing something you're doing or an action. It's one of those things that you you show. And if you take that into consideration where loving your enemies is not the concept of not hating them, because I think that's what a lot of people think. A lot of people think as long as I don't actively hate my enemies, I'm fine. And as long as I don't actively hate the people that that hurt me, I'm fine. And even if I go as far as to sometimes pray for them, but it's kind of in a half hearted way where I'm like, you know, David asked for smiting his enemies a lot. I think I can do that in this situation, can't I, father? Love them with actionable things

and recognize that Jesus is asking you to do that. I mean, he's telling you to do it because it's it's right, but there's also blessing for you in that. There there's things that benefit you for that. And don't do it for the benefit for you, but realize that that God is asking for you to do something that he knows is for your good. Loving your enemies is a part of that. Actionably working and serving someone that you may be upset about or you may be angry at or may have hurt you in the past or hurt you recently, whatever it looks like. There is joy for both of you on the other side of that transaction in a beautiful way.

And having actually taken a step back and and did it to an extent for the first time in my life, I'm very thankful that I did, And I'm really thankful that God didn't take him off my mind at all today, and it turned into something I was able to do. And so love your enemies the way that you really spoke you really are supposed to. Get off my line. Get off of whoever's line. Yeah. It's a tough role.

Loving your enemies is a tough role. Yeah. It's because it's all it's all risk and and often very little chance of reward. Like, that's why you call it like, if you think you can get a return from someone, it's it's not just be you do things because you love people and you care about them, wanna show them. It's because there's very little personal risk to you to do it. Yep. They're likely to receive it well. They're not gonna be mad. They're not gonna take it wrong. It's not likely to introduce drama into your life to serve people who you like and who like you back. There is a lot of risk in trying to serve your enemy because not only, does it not

they don't receive it well, it also doesn't help any situation and probably even creates worse for you. There's a lot of risk in it. And so a lot of times, I think we misunderstand that we hey. I don't wanna serve my enemy because I don't like them. A lot of times, we don't wanna serve our enemy, because there's a lot of personal risk of it not helping and making things worse because of how they might perceive what you're trying to do. And you're like, boy, is it alright to I mean, what if it stirs the pot? And Buva's story is a real good one because, right, it had it had that very much had that risk of stirring the pot. Hey. Buva's in there shaming us by doing our dishes. Right? And so I I think this if this if this is should not be a surprise in the Christian life, and it often is, but it shouldn't be, it costs something.

It costs something to serve your enemy. It does. And it puts you at risk. It puts you at risk that someone will misunderstand you. It puts you at risk that they will be offended by your prayers, by your service, by your intent to to show them, grace and mercy and love. Like, your enemy may respond poorly to that because the assumption generally is that you were not you just don't find them your enemy. They don't care for you either. And so, I I I think just recognizing that, like, yeah, is there some risk involved? Of course. But you're gonna do it anyway, and you're gonna let chips fall where they may because you can't control all that. You can control how you treat other people. You cannot control how they react. And if they react poorly, it doesn't speak any differently of you.

Just like it doesn't speak here's if it spoke crappily of Jesus for all the jerks that he had mercy on, Jesus himself would have a very bad reputation. Right? Even just on my docket. And so that's the thing. Jesus goes, yeah. I'm willing to be associated with with Ben and Buva even though someone might see it wrong. And I'm gonna show them mercy even when they don't deserve it, even when someone go, look at that sucker, or, like, how dare you offer me the mercy? Jesus goes, yeah. I'm offering anyway, because you need it, whether you realize or not you need it. And so I I think that's the thing is that, like, it's not it's not just as simple as how do I not hate this person. It's recognizing that it will cost you something to love someone who hates you and who you otherwise, and it runs risks. And Jesus says, you're gonna take him anyway because that's what I would've done for you. In fact, that is what I did for you. And so that's how you show me to the world as you act in ways that they often don't understand, and some people will reject, and some people overreact. And for some people, it'll take time. It'll take the tenth time you wash the dishes, like, what's really going on here? And you're like, the same thing that it was the first time. Right. It's always the same thing. It hasn't changed. What what's your agenda? I don't have one. And it is the thing. It's it's it's hard to believe. It's hard for people to take in. It takes breaking through exteriors. And so,

yeah, I like it. You ever got you fellows ever had had that experience where you've you've intended to try to make something right with your enemy, and either it's gone swimmingly or backfired completely? Yeah. Backfired. Yep. Yeah. We're electric in here. What tell me tell me the story. I don't have a story. It just happened. I just called vague feeling. Now my pope saw a vice band. Dan, do you remember the story? I I I mean, yeah. I I can think of like a handful of people in Atlantic when we lived there.

We we went to a a rural setting church, know, with piano and organ and and old fashioned style of everything and started kinda transitioning it in the mid nineties, early nineties

to more contemporary. And we we tried to take slow steps so not to, like, step on people, but but still there's some you know, it just it just rubbed some people wrong, including small groups. You you just don't choose small groups. That's taking them out of the church building. That's evil. And we were destroying the church and and a handful, a small handful thought. And and so there there were probably three families that that were just

just hated me. I mean, me. You know, I tried to meet with them. Hey, let's get get her into I just wanna pray for you. Once a week. Come in and just meet. You know, x time, we'll just pray. And they did it for three weeks or so, then they just like found reasons not to, you know. And you know, you try to be extra kind and and you You know, with with with those particular people, it just never worked. And so I finally just kinda prayed. So, okay, God, this isn't working. Mean, you gotta kinda release these. Let them go. Which is kinda weird prayer. But to like all all of sudden a one was transferred out of town and then another just decided to move. And I mean, I like it. It's like it's kind of weird. I've had prayers like that periodically, probably three or four times in my life where where I just kind of release someone and then like they just suddenly decided to go. I mean, it's just weird. One's a one was a girlfriend. Mike, I know what you're thinking. You can't pray to release me and I'll leave.

Lord, we release poop. I use the wind and everything. But I tried. I tried everything. Know, I probably tried for two two or three years. I mean, it wasn't like just I tried once or twice. And, I mean, I I you could you could see them taking notes and looking at each other during during like a church service like a Oh, man. They would listen to tapes afterwards, try to catch me in words, you know. And and I was just like, boy, you guys are children here. I mean, like Take it to the tape. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you you know, you just try not to let it bother you. It's like, well, I'm gonna just keep doing my thing. And

that's when I learned to really invest in prayer and fasting, really. Honestly, that was the the high spiritual time in my life. To let God worry about it, not me, but it's hard to do that. Yeah. To let God worry about it. And so yeah. Yeah. I mean, I suppose it reinforces the point. Right? Like, that you can you can do what you can do. Yeah. And like, it does mean you do extend. You put yourself in situations where you try to make things right, where you try to serve and love. And like, some people are gonna receive it and some people not. But like, that risk is something you do have to take because this is risk Jesus took on you. Mhmm. Alright. Thanks, boo. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Alright, boys. We're gonna go we're gonna hit three stalwarts in a row. I'm a tell I gotta found a joke.

We're gonna do a quiz on the crucifixion of Jesus given it's apropos here on Easter season, and then Mike's got some advice on dear life on the path. Yeah. We're gonna play the hits. Okay. So here we go. I'm gonna I get one, and then I'm gonna give you the option of two two titles, and you guys get to pick the second joke. Joke one. Every year, Smitty and his wife Martha went to the state fair. And every year, Smitty would say, Martha, I'd like to ride in that their airplane. And every year, Martha would reply, I know Smitty, but that airplane caught ride cost $10, and $10 is $10. This one year, Smitty and Martha went to the fair, and Smitty said, Martha, I'm 71 years old. If I don't ride that airplane this year, I may never get another chance. Martha replied, Smitty, that their airplane ride cost $10,

and $10 is $10. The pilot overheard them and said, folks, I'll make you a deal. I'll take you both up for a ride. If you can stay quiet for the entire ride and not say one word, I won't charge you. But if you say one word, it's $10. Smitty and Martha agreed and up they went. The pilot performed all kinds of twists and turns, rolls and dives, but not a word is heard. He even does a nose dive, pulling up 15 feet above the ground, but still not a word. They land, and the pilot turns to Smitty. By golly, I did everything I could to think of to get you to yell out, but you didn't. Smitty replied, well, I was gonna say something when Martha fell out, but $10 is $10. That's terrible. This was under the heading old folks jokes. Yep. Clean old folks jokes. Alright. You got the choice between chocolate peanuts and kiss the frog. Kiss the frog. Okay. Boo was the first one to the first one to the barn. Two two old guys are playing tennis. At one point, the ball rolls into some bushes, and when one of the players goes to retrieve it, he is confronted by a frog claiming to be a beautiful princess who has been turned into a frog by a mischievous wizard. If the player will kiss her, the frog assures him she will revert to her natural princess state and marry him, and they'll both live happily ever after. The player pockets the frog and returns to the game. After a bit, the frog inside the player's pocket croaks, sir, did you forget about me? I'm this beautiful princess turned into a frog if you kiss me and so forth. To which she receives the reply, dear lady frog, I will be completely honest with you. I have reached the age at which I would rather have a talking frog than a new wife. Oh, no.

Hey. I I muted laughed at that buva guffawed and really had a rolling go at it. I still am. That's funny. Okay. Ready? So I chose this, the Jesus crucifixion quiz. So the the score is average score is 69%, boys. Let's see if we see what we can do. Crucifixion of Jesus. K. Here we go. Number one, where was Jesus crucified? The Mount Of Olives, Golgotha,

Jerusalem, the Hinman Valley or Hinman Valley. Golgotha. Golgotha. What did they offer Jesus to drink as he was crucified? Sour wine. Yeah. Stagnant water, grape juice, communion wine, vinegar mixed with gall. Vinegar mixed with gall. It's vinegar all. Vinegar and gall. Communion wine. I'm sure. Yeah. That's not Welch's?

I mean, they'd have to be using the stuff he used the day before. You forgot your wine. When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. Which prophet prophesied that this would happen? Isaiah, David, Jeremiah, Daniel. Oh,

Isaiah. I'm going Isaiah as well. Dan's squinting as if he can see better than we can do him. No. No. It's it's David because it's a psalm. Remember? Because it's it's the same one where it says, by being forsaken me. Same one. The sing. The sing song. Yep. King David. Alright. In what language was the superscription written that was placed above Jesus that said, Jesus, the king of the Jews? Hebrew. Superscription?

Yeah. Greek Oh. Latin, Hebrew, all of the above. Oh. All of the above. Yeah. All of above. At least Hebrew for sure. Inry, that that's that's

Latin. I don't know. Yeah. I thought Pilate wrote it in three different Yeah. So everybody knew. How many other people were crucified with Jesus? Two. We are not told many, one, or two. Two. Well, there's seven animals in the dark. It doesn't say how many dudes were up there. He only spoke to two of them. Yeah. I mean, only two two dudes locally. I suppose that's a valid point.

I'm still thinking it's two. Now this doesn't tend to hinge on a technicality because, like, it wasn't it's not mentioned, but, like, he did talk to two people at least. So Why would Jesus not have talked to the others? I would hey. You you wanna end. I never did like you. You wanna end this paradise or what? Well, let's let's go with two, and we'll if we shame on us. Or maybe Answers?

We are not told Many. Many. One or two. One or two. Yeah. Actually, the presence of we are not told and many both would be the same thing for me. It has be two. So it's gotta be two. Okay. Which group of people said, if he be the king of Israel, let him now come down from the cross and we will believe him. The chief priests, the scribes, the elders, all of the above. Isn't there just one chief priest? I mean, I You know the concept of chief priests? I think kinda two. They don't tend to list three though. But if either it's gotta be one, it yeah. I think it's all of the above. Yeah. Think so. Okay. How many hours of darkness were there when Jesus hung on the cross? Six.

Is that from or was it 326? 3 to nine. I think I think it's 3. It's 23, four, or five. Oh. That's three. Three. Three. Yeah. Let's go with three. Eight. Two, After Jesus died, what supernatural event took place? Earthquake. Tear. People risen from the grave? Is that what they're looking for? Okay. Then then it's gonna be all the above. The veil of the temple was torn in two from top to the bottom. There was an earthquake. Graves opened, and many people dead people rose and went into the city. Personality quiz. What's the what's what's the first supernatural come up with something different? Yeah. But it was like earthquake again. It's like dead people are walking about.

Mike's like, there's a tear in a curtain. We're gonna have to fix the curtain. That's total type a personality. Number nine, how did the people who are watching Jesus respond to the events that happened in his death? They are swallowed up in the earth and died. No. They are bemused and said among themselves what an amazing coincidence it was. Bemused. That was not mentioned. They were greatly afraid and said, truly, this was the son of God or we are not told.

Si. Yeah. This was okay. Roman. 10. Which psalm gives a first person account of the crucifixion? Psalm one nineteen, one seventeen, 22, or 23. I think this one nineteen. I think so. I think that's the one we were talking about earlier. Wait. What? That one nineteen? Yeah. It's David speaking,

but like that that's what that's Is a first person account of the crucifixion? Yeah. It contains the the it connects the crucifixion back to things like forsaken me. Yep. Why have you forsaken me? They divided my clothes. Psalm one nineteen is all about the lord's laws and precepts and his ways and stuff like that, isn't it? Because that was Psalm one teen one nineteen is the Psalm that they used to teach the alphabet. Oh, yeah. Is that the giant one? Yeah. The psalm one teen is the longest one. It's the one where it's like, lord, how great are your precepts? How good are your ways that you've given them to me? Is it 22? Yeah. It's 20 '3. It's not 20 '3. It's 20 '2. 17 or 22? It's 22. Maybe it's 22. Okay. I yeah. I Yeah. One nineteen is the long one that has, like, the 23 stanzas. That's right. Well, sniff's right. Let's go okay. Let's go 22. Vosibubo Rescue is 22. 11, who owned the tomb where Jesus was buried? Josephus.

Joseph of Arimathea. I mean I was gonna say Josephus. Wasn't he the scholar? In a book. You know? Who did you should squint again, Dan. You should see if you could read the book of Jeremiah when you sprint when you squint. I mean, it could be Josephus in the Greek. I'm a give it to you. That's what his friends called him. Joseph of Arimathea. He and I go back. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. We think we have it right. Let's see what happens. Where was Jesus crucified? We said Golgotha. That was correct. What did they offer Jesus to drink as he was crucified? We said vinegar mixed with gall. That was correct. When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. Which prophet prophesied this would happen? We said king David. That is correct. In what language was the superscription written that was placed above Jesus' that Jesus had said, Jesus, the king of the Jews? We said, all of the above. That is correct.

How many other people were crucified with Jesus? We said, two. That is correct. Which group of people said, if he be the king of Israel, let him come down from the cross, and we will believe in him? We said, all of the above. That was correct. How many hours of darkness were there when Jesus hung on the cross? We said three. That is correct. After Jesus died, what supernatural event took place? We said all of the above. That was correct. Question nine, how did the people who were watching Jesus respond to the events that happened in his death? We said they were greatly afraid and said, truly, this was the son of God. That was correct. Question 10, which Psalm gave a first person account of the crucifixion? Buva came in from left field and saved it was Psalm 22, and that was correct. Yeah. And who owned the tomb where Jesus was buried? We said Joseph of Arimathea, and that was correct. Nailed it, boys. 100%. Man. Well done, fellas. Nicely done. What do you think so if normal people are getting 69, you think it's the the David questions. It's the Old Testament stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Alright. Alright. And

then a few guys guessed Josephus at the at the end there. That sounds about right. That's that's right. Josephus, I think I met him before. He from Arkansas? Of the, yeah, of the Arkansas Josephus'? Josephus of Arkansas.

Alright. Mike, what do you got? Okay. Here we go. Dear life from the path. I have a friend who is an alcoholic. I met her when we first moved here five years ago. At that time, I wasn't aware of her drinking problem. Over the years, it's become very apparent. I have yelled at her, shown deep concern for her, threatened rehab, begged her to get help, etcetera. Calls me late in the evening, rambling on about ridiculous things, repeating the same stories over and over, crying, claiming she's having panic attacks, and all sorts of other health ailments that are most likely caused by her drinking. Mhmm. I'm at my wit's end with her. She's a good person and has a good heart, but I know I can't save her because she's already stated she will never stop drinking. How do I manage to keep my own sanity? Mhmm. I sometimes feel like I enable her by not calling her out on all her excuses for her problems when I know well they're all because of the drinking. Can I can I go heavy on this for a second? Yeah. Go ahead, boo. Addiction comes from trauma.

That's where it comes from. They it just that's that's what happens. It is it is constantly shown over and over again that these kind of things are deep seated. It is not just that she likes the taste of wine. That is not what happens. Something is happening that she is she is compensating for. She's trying to forget. She's trying to get away from. Her personality scares her. Her thoughts scare her from when she's not drunk or drinking. You have to come at this from a place that you understand those thought processes. And if you can't,

get her to someone that can and back away because you will hurt her more and more and more with these thought processes where how do you keep your sanity? Seriously? I mean, I get it. It's frustrating. There's nothing about it that isn't frustrating. But if you can't come at this with love, you can't come at this. I mean, I think that seems unfair to Buva. I, like, I don't think that you have any indication that she didn't come at this with love. She's dealing with someone who is continuing to harm and and hurt themselves over and over again with this thing What was her list? And is not able to do anything about it. It doesn't feel like she's making progress. I've yelled at her. I have threatened rehab. I listened to her ridiculous stories. I mean, that and so just This is all language to me that sounds like someone that's just upset about this addiction. No, boovah. I think that's what it sounds like to me. Need to be careful here because, like, your sympathy lies with the person who has the problem. I understand that. Of course. The person who is on the other side of it doesn't implicitly know how to deal with it either.

Mhmm. You understand? Agreed. You know what I'm saying? So so, like, if it is someone if someone says to themselves, hey. How can I help? I I need to like, they may not your to the point that you're making, I I think is something that you have that has to be made and that most people may not connect at the beginning. Right? So, like, what she what is in her mind feels like help isn't, but she doesn't know that. You understand? She's dealing with a fresh situation too because she's not struggling with these same things. It's harder to ask sympathy from the person who otherwise has the addiction, but just like, this came up in a pope style advice before, whereas, like, I think you have to recognize that people dealing with folks who have addiction

haven't gone through that either. It is much harder for them to understand what's going on. And so I I the my only caution here is not that you're not saying things that aren't true, but I would be cautious about putting the full grace bucket on the person who's struggling with the addiction and not with the person who doesn't know how to help someone who is. Okay. I I get where you're coming from, but I I'm not putting back at all. You could say that I'm wrong, and that's fine. But, no, I I I I I do not take anything back. I said,

I just don't. I I've seen so many people that hurt people in addictions because they get so selfish in their care, and it's ridiculous. And it it makes me mad, to be honest. It really does. Package, there's it gets a frustration on both sides. There there's literally nothing I can do to help you with your addiction until you embrace it and say, I want help with my addiction.

I mean and that this person isn't willing at least at this point to ask or even accept they need help. And what do you do? I mean, what what's the question she's she the I must have been is she is it what should I do, baby? From going crazy? What? Say? How how can she keep herself from losing her sanity is what she asked. I mean, she's worried about her sanity, she probably needs to walk away from the relationship because she can't handle it. But that doesn't help the situation. Mhmm. So are you wanting to help the situation? Then you need

but then you can't even be with this person all day long and keep them from drinking because they have to want to not drink. You know, we've talked about that many times here like like in the in the food situation. I I as I've approached my eating with an addiction, like like, nobody can help me. And I I sit there and I I know all the time, oh, I shouldn't eat this. You know? Yep. And then I eat it. You know? I mean, I I get strong times and and weak times, and it's just not as visible or destructive maybe as as an alcohol thing. But

no there's nothing anybody can do. I mean, my wife will say, hey, you sure we can't do that? Next time she'll go, here's a piece of pie. I mean, you know Right. She even hear she hears she doesn't even know how to handle me because she also wants me to be happy. Well, I'd to be happy pie, you know. Yeah. I'm I'm at a loss. I'm at complete loss. I have no help. I'm terrible at this. I think there's a mistake in arrogance in thinking that you are the linchpin to the And the truth of the matter is, if you can't if if all you can do is enable, then you you probably do need to back out. And nobody wants to do that. Because you're helping destruct.

Yeah. Everybody wants to be the person that helps. And and, like, not this does not sound like I maybe I just took a complete different hit on it than than Buva heard here, but, like, I mean, I I hear somebody that wants to try to help and they're losing, and they're not helping. And now they now they know that they're making it worse. But, like and their gut reaction, because they're not an addict. Right? Like, when someone calls you that has an addiction and they're like, I have no money. I am broke, I am sad, I am depressed,

and if you don't come from a history of addiction, you go because you're an addict. And that's all that's all the farther you can think. It'd be the same thing that says, hey, I I can't drive anywhere because I've because I'm missing one of the tires on my car. And the only thing a mechanic's gonna gonna think is, because one of your tires are missing. Let's just fix that, and then we can move on. Right? Like, that's all they can see. And so, like, at the end of the day, what they're asking is is, like her question specifically was, how do I manage to keep my own sanity? I sometimes feel like I enable her by not calling her out on all her excuses for her problems when I know well they're because of the drinking. That is true. You do know that. If all you can do is call out the drinking, then you're probably not the right person. That's probably true.

I I don't I know It's a hard position to be in because you think that, like, if I don't help them, no one will help them. Right? If if if no one steps in and you're not willing to take the gamble that someone else is gonna do it, so you figure, alright, if I have to be this person, then I will do I will do anything to help them when the truth is they have to actually want the help. And if they want the help, then you can come back and help, and that's okay. But if they don't want the help, you can't force anybody to do anything. You just can't. And if you can't ride the waves of that addiction well,

of of their addiction well, then it's probably is best if you follow because their choices to be to make certain decisions, you don't have to tie yourself to that raft. You don't have to follow them up and follow them down and follow them up and follow them down. Those are choices that they're making and you wish they wouldn't and you love them and you want them out of it. But they don't wanna come out of it. And and and if you're not in it to ride the wave, then you should probably back out. I think that's a healthy decision for you. So so, Buvo, what do what do you mean when you say to love love them? Like like, what is that? What is that? To to keep going up and down on the ride? Or or I mean, I mean Honestly, kinda sometimes. Yeah. Yeah? Uh-huh. If that stinks, that sucks. So I I say this as someone who's been the addicted person Mhmm. And someone that's ridden the waves of the addiction. I've been on both sides of that, and I don't mean to speak like I'm an authority by any means. I've just been there with multiple people for twenty

years. Years. It addiction is rarely looked at as as the symptom versus the problem. Addiction is usually looked at as the problem that needs to be fixed, Whereas most of the time, the addiction is actually a symptom of something deeper. And when you can start getting to that concept There's some pain Yes. They're trying to medicate Right. They're they're they're compensating for something that isn't there. There or something that is there that they don't want there.

I read articles all the time, and and, actually, my fiance and her mother are good on this too, and and I'm are constantly feed this kind of stuff. I try and read both points of the arguments, but addiction rarely comes. I won't say never because that's impossible, but it rarely comes from a place that it isn't started with trauma. Whether that's childhood trauma, whether that's trauma that's happened recently, what whatever. There's something that causes that person to have to have that substance of of whatever kind it is. Addictions of all kinds. Right? They're not just substance abuse. Addictions of all kinds usually come from from some place where they're either missing something that they didn't get as a child or didn't get as an adult, or or they're missing something in their brain right now that is is being compensated by the addiction.

And so when you start to recognize that if all you ever do is try and combat the addiction, all you're doing is fighting the symptoms of a bigger thing instead of actually trying to get down to to the nitty gritty stuff. I lived I lived with a serious and severe addiction for almost a decade without recognizing where it actually came from. So does a friend rode those waves with me. Sure. Sure. Does a friend then sit down and try to just ask deeper questions? Like, hey, what's going on? Sometimes if if you can I'm trying to If you can, yes. Mhmm. If you can understand that sometimes it's important for them to because a lot of That's not like you're trying to fix them, just as a friend. Hey. What's going on? With a lot of times with those addictions, you don't know where they came from. Mhmm. I didn't know where mine came from until I really started breaking them down. My mother was an alcoholic. My my father was an addict because of stuff that he dealt with. My brother was a high addict. I my our entire family has been rooted with this for as long as I can remember. Remember, all of our addictions started with some kind of trauma, and I know dozens

of family would deal with this kind of stuff. I have friends who deal with this kind of stuff and where you recognize that sometimes people just don't know where it comes from. They'll recognize that it's a problem. Rarely ever do addicts when they actually are in a moment of clarity, do they actually think that that they that their problem is not actually a problem. Mostly and, of course, there's gonna be times when they're like, oh, I don't wanna fix anything like that. They may not wanna fix it, but that does not mean they don't recognize there's a problem. Okay? There are plenty of times when people don't. I get that. But sometimes you just don't know where it stems from, and you don't know what hurt caused it. You don't know what you missed. You don't know what you're lacking. Asking those people to get help, going with them to get that help, offer to go to an AA meeting with somebody. Seriously.

I know that seems cheesy, and I know that seems like you're pushing off to somebody else, but a lot of the times that's important to do because then you get somebody that goes, I have I don't ever wanna go alone. I'm never gonna bring it up. But if someone walks up to me and goes, hey. I love you with all of my heart. I want us to be in a spot where we can start understanding this. What about an AA meeting? You don't have to talk. I won't even talk. We'll just go to listen and start that kind of stuff. Start the conversation with that person and try try and get them some help. For me, it was people around me that offered for me to go to to counseling. And if I can be so Dan, it was you. Like,

you offered me that as as a as a thing, and I am in a place now where I understand my addiction more than I ever had because I went and talked about it to a professional. And I don't usually vie for for professional help immediately, but, like, sometimes with this stuff, it's important for them to go to an unbiased person to just tell them, even if it's just recanting your own story. My delirium, my my craziness was I didn't think I had a problem, and my addiction I felt wasn't really an issue to the point that, like, I was even downplaying my own story. Like, I thought it was not a big deal. I didn't really go through that much and stuff like that. The therapist that I was seeing literally had to say my story third person and pretend like it wasn't my own story. They

literally had to tell me my story, and I went, oh my gosh. That's awful. I can't believe someone went through that. Like, how how do they live? Like, that's crazy. And then he literally went, dude, that's you. And I'm like, oh, no. Wait. Yeah. It is. That's literally me. And it was that moment where I'm just like, this is so much more deep seated than I ever thought. Because in my brain, before I really got help that I needed, I rationalized that I never had this until after my dad passed away. I never had this until he passed away, so it must have been that. And so I was treating for that kind of thought process. But then that didn't really understand the concept that my trauma really started happening ten years before that.

And when I started working through that to the point where I was a child and I didn't get the the the they my parents certainly tried to give me the love that I needed, but, like, I didn't have safety or security at all. So my brain goes now to where most of my addiction comes from the thought process of I feel unsafe, and I feel lack of security. And my emotional security is therefore adamanted by eating. And so I go, okay. I'm compensating for something that happened twenty years ago. I'm not saying that's everyone's story, but you'd be surprised by the amount of people that this addiction stems from something that they might they may not even understand.

And so I I I I apologize for for jumping at that so hardcore. Ben, you're absolutely right. I I I I need to give more grace to the people that are are trying to help these people also. Sorry about that. I get a little heated in this, and I apologize. But I I think that people that try and go with this

are so ill prepared for what they're gonna have to go for. That's exactly why you show them grace. They don't know You're absolutely and that's why as I'm saying that, you're absolutely right. This which which is where I'm at. There are people that are so ill prepared to understand where actual trauma comes from and legitimate addiction comes from. That's how they say and do dumb things. We don't know how to help people. Oh, absolutely. It's the same story as someone looking at me twenty ten years ago and going, god's got a plan for this. They had a good heart, but they had no idea how to talk to me. And it's the same situation. It's myself from ten years ago talking to my my mother who was who was an alcoholic. I was hurt every time she would run back to alcohol. I was hurt. I don't tell the nitty gritties parts of this a lot, but, like, my mother attempted suicide probably a dozen times. And it was, after binge drinking for weeks that she would go back to that. And she would always get help, and she would go to the hospital, and we would have to be in the hospital for with her for a day or two. And then she'd come back home, and we'd be like, we're never gonna do that again. And mom's gonna go back to AA, and she's never gonna drink again. But within six months like clockwork, she would be drinking again. We would find Mountain Dew bottles full of vodka. We would find the fifths of vodka that she got drunk and then hid in the garage and couldn't remember where she hit them because she did it when she was drunk. And we would start seeing that. And within three weeks of that, she would usually make an attempt on her life. And so every single time no. I was a child also, but every single time, I would get upset. And I'd like, mom, why would you do this? How could you do this to me? This is ridiculous.

You keep doing this over and over again. All the the the rhetoric we've all heard. Right. Right. And what I didn't realize was there were things that happened to my mother years before any of this happened. Trauma that broke her as a child and as an adult that kept hurting, and it was this deep seated evil pain and trauma in her brain that did not allow her to function the way that she should have. To this day,

I wish that I knew then what I know now about addiction and where this stems from. All we did was medicate the addiction. That's all we ever did for her. All we ever broke down was, are mom's meds right? Are is she getting is is her brain chemistry being corrected by these medications? Hopefully so, and then move on. My mother never sought out any kind of help. She didn't go to counselors to try and understand this stuff, and it was it happened every time. No matter what the medication was, no matter what positive

positive things were happening in her life, a normal person would be able to cling to and go, hey. There are positive things happening. I can I can dissociate with all the trauma? I can stay in the positive things. Her brain didn't work that way. It wasn't wired to do so. I wish that I could go back to myself fifteen years ago when I was 13 and say, dude, just break down that wall of understanding that addiction comes from a trauma that she does not understand nor do you. Get her legitimate help, and not a single person did that, And it kills me. So I think that's that's probably the the major point there because, I mean, of all the things that Boo said about addiction, it's all correct. Right? But like just as in that exact same situation, he was not equipped to do that. Right. Yes. The person asking this question is just flat out not equipped to do it. Right? And and what is unfair is for

you, as as the person that's attempting to help Once again, I I it was my opening gambit and it wasn't meant to be an insult, but like it is is arrogant thinking Yeah. To think that you are the person for the job if you're not. If you're not the person for the job, you're not the person for the job. And you can't let the addict tell you that you're the person for the job because they don't know. Not seeing life they're not seeing life correctly. Right? So if you're not, you're not It's it's just taking a sobering look at what's going on here. Right? Like, no one's talking about you not playing a supporting role here. No one's talking about you abandoning them. But like, if you are not the person to walk them through this addiction, don't act like you are. And don't you you are going to have to set up a boundary here and there Yes. And you are gonna have to stick with it. And it's okay. It's okay. It doesn't mean you don't love them. If they're if if you have a hard time not enabling them, it's safe to set up boundaries. You're doing what's best for them and what's best for you and that's okay. They don't have to stay in place forever. Boundaries are of your own design. You can set them up and you can take them down. They're not they're not lifelong banishments. They're not lifelong you will never come to my house agains. These kind of things. These these are way over the tops. Right? Because there's a person in there and there's a person in there that's hurting. That's the end of the story. There's a person in there that's hurting and and they're trying to they're trying to fill a hole with the wrong thing. And you know that and you know that you're not the person to help them out of it. All you can do is offer. And if they say no, all you can do is offer again. You can't offer to do the wrong thing for them, but you can always that it's it's a pretty classic statement that that that Ben will use is like, I will always help you do the right thing. Whatever the right thing is, I will always help you do that. I will not help you do the wrong thing. Right. So it doesn't matter what condition you're in. If you're drunk, if you're dead sober, if you're broke, if you got money coming out your ears, will always help you do the right thing. I will not help you do the wrong thing. And the thing is is the guy or gal that has

your head on straight in this situation, you get to decide what right and wrong is. And you better be pretty good at it. You know I'm saying? Like, you better be pretty solid about it. Your Just because you do it doesn't make it right. That's the hard thing. Right? It's like when peep Most people I've seen that try to model or try to help an addiction, they'll be like, the yardstick is me. If you're not doing what I would do, then you're living wrong. And that's not true. That's not the way that that works. Right? All kinds of people live all kinds of different ways. We're just talking about the right thing as in it's not the wrong thing. I'm not gonna help you destroy yourself. I will help you help you I will help you do something good. Or I will get to you to you to somebody that will help you do something good. But I will not help you do a bad thing. I won't help you swim in a cesspool. That is not what I'm going to do. And that's okay. That's an okay boundary. So

to sum all that up, if you're coming at this with a humble servant's heart in the deal and you're being overwhelmed, just realize that you are not the linchpin to this whole operation. Get yourself some help. Right? There's nothing wrong with going to What's that? What's that? What's that? It's not it's not Alan Honore. Oh, the Celebrate Recovery? Celebrate Recovery. Yeah. Go without them. Go without them. Get some tools. Get equipped to do it. And and and after you go to Celebrate Recovery, you go, boy, I'm not the guy for this. Cool. You met a bunch of people are. Yes. You met a bunch of boovahs hanging around that can that can help explain some stuff to you and help you understand where they're coming from and you realize your relationship with them will change when their name comes up on your phone or you see them at your door and not and the first thing you don't think is alcoholic. Right. Because there is a guy in there and there's a girl in there and and you love them. You really do love them. But their addiction is causing a huge wedge in the way that this thing is operating and you don't know what to do. And you've probably said the wrong thing and done the wrong thing and and overreacted and all that's you're working through it. So if you're coming at it humbly, get some help and figure out what you're going to do. If you're coming at it as in, I'm better than you are because I'm not an addict, you should just get out. You're not helping. You're not helping at all. That's not a good way to live.

Secular's advice? Secular says, I have two suggestions for you, and I hope you will avail yourself of both. The first is to go online to alanon.org to find the nearest location for meetings. You will find they are and attend some. Al Anon is a sister organization of Alcoholics Anonymous and it was founded to help and support the friends of family members of people who have an alcohol problem. It will help you to understand that you cannot help your friend. Only she can do that by mustering up the resolve to quit drinking. I don't agree with that a 100%. Many alcoholics do this only after they finally realize the consequences their addiction has cost them. In this case, the price may be her friendship with you. The second is to tell your friend, while she is sober, that she cannot continue calling you when she has been drinking, and that if she does, you will hang up. Then do it. She said the same things we said a little bit.

Boundaries are okay. Boundaries are okay. And I don't know I I I know enough addicts to know and have a somewhat of an addictive personality myself that resolve is about worth what I can south wind. You know what I'm saying? Resolve sucks.

I don't know. In fact, to be honest, I don't know how to live this life without the hope of Jesus Christ. My resolve is horrible. Horrible. I cannot do the right thing continuously by myself. That is how we ended up in a cracked world. God said as much. There's some people that it's not a struggle for them. There is if they decide they're just gonna up and quit smoking one day, they'll just do it, and it's not a deal. They'll suffer in silence and that's it. They come out like a breeze on the other end. That is not my condition. That is not the condition of most people I know. They want more than anything not to feel the hurt that they're feeling. And they want more than anything not to turn to whatever substance they're using to dull it. And then they fail, and then they feel horrible about themselves, and then they hide, and then they do it all over again. And so, like, if it was based on resolve on their own, I don't think it's possible. Now, if there's any hope in that, you only have to resolve once to get help.

That is long lasting, and that will feed, and it will fail sometimes, and you'll go back for more help. That's what help is. Help is people that want to help you. Right? But, like, if you think you're gonna stomach it on your own, on your couch, or whatever, I've I've not seen a high success rate with that. Alright. We got one more? Oh, yeah. You wanna do another? That was a big one. Okay. You want me to if I can find a comedy? I mean, you can't guarantee any comedy. Oh, boy. I I haven't read these. Here we go. Dear Life From The Path. My 53 year old brother had an affair eight years ago. Eight years ago? Yeah. Comedy. Yeah. This is funny. He and his wife have four children. When he told his wife about it, they started sleeping in separate bedrooms. Yep. She stays with him for the kid's sake and for financial reasons. The other woman, quotes Rachel, recently contacted him saying she has cancer and has no family who want to take care of her. He put her up in his cabin in the mountains and hasn't told his wife. Oh. He asked what I thought, and honestly, I feel that although I am sad for Rachel, my brother should put his wife before his concern for this other woman. I'm angry with him for what he's doing to his wife. What should he what should he do?

Well, he's not having an affair with her, probably. No. I seriously, you wanna replay Love Your Enemies? The the wife's the wife has every reason to to hate every bit of this. Right. Absolutely. It did I mean, the

boy. Here's the deal. I dig the action. Yeah. I totally do. Is it is it annoying? Dig the action of, like, taking care of her and putting her up in a place. That's freaking awesome. But, like I mean, dangerous. But dangerous. But then you know what's not dangerous, though? Bringing your wife into it. Yeah. Like, you and your wife standing together as a freaking couple like it was designed to be. Uh-huh. Loving people the way that a marriage is supposed to. It's supposed to be a celebration of the way that we have relationship with Christ. Guess what? You can show that for a mistress. How freaking awesome is that as an opportunity for a husband and a wife to come together as a covenant before god himself And then she just show that love. She says no, boo. We're not gonna do that. That would be an amazing story. That's what I'm saying. That's an that's an amazing story. She's probably gonna say no. Yeah. I mean and and I I don't know that I blame her. Of course not. I don't know that I blame her. But That's human. You wanna show god's redemptive spirit Yeah. And never ending grace, that is what that looks like. I'm just trying picture this though. Oh, so he he has her in a cabin, but it was like the is she like

does she have people helping her? Is she in that much of need? Does she just need a place to sleep during chemo? What does that mean? I yeah. I don't know. It does seem kinda odd. Like, if you have cancer, you should it's terminal, you would figure you're in a hospital or, you know I mean, yeah. Yeah. There's gonna be much more. Yeah. True. But it might not have gotten to that point. Yeah. Maybe she just Maybe she's treatment. Can't work and needs a place to stay that she doesn't have to pay rent at. My wife had cancer. She had surgery and then recovered for eight weeks. I can't remember how many. Right. And then she went back to work. Yeah. And and never just haven't had you know, is she Yeah. Right. You know, is it that? That's a temporary thing? Is it she went there to die? That's what I don't know. But she needs to have he's a the wife Yes. This is the wife's cabin too. It would've been a you've you've already loused this up, friend, by doing it without telling her. Exactly. If you were going to do this, you would had to have sat down with your wife and Right. Organized it and said And it could have awesome. What I would like to do. I realize how offensive and distasteful this is, but I feel like it's the right thing. Just read Matthew, honey. Just read oh.

It goes down hard. That is a tough that is a hard word. Holy cats. Yeah. I don't think you can keep doing it in secret, though. Absolutely not. No. Have to you have to bring your wife to the table. So this is the brother who's angry at his at at his at his brother for goodness. And still but, yeah, at the same time, it's none of his business. I mean I mean, it is, but, I mean, it's like I feel like if my brother was making this kind of choice, I would be Adam. I mean, I'd be Adam. I wouldn't be writing, you know, your life in the past. Well, agreed. Yeah. I don't think that we would do that. I mean, here's the deal. Like, let's say Call the police. Let's say I was trying to do the same thing. Call call the police. Call the police and go to marriage counseling. Intercede. Marriage counseling, call the police. So I would expect you guys at the very least to say, Mike, what you're doing is sinful, and you're gonna tell your wife. And I'm make sure you're gonna do it. And and I'll call you tomorrow and make sure you did it. Yep. And so sneaking around him and going to the wife is not a good way to live. No. But like, as a guy, obviously, I mean, there's no allegiance to king Jesus here, so you can't enforce it. But I have it. And so if I was doing this, you'd say, look, you and I are following the same Jesus, and and part of that deal is you're gonna tell your wife, and you're gonna straighten that out right now. Let me ask you this. Is there ever a point that it's okay to go to the wife

after multiple times trying to get the husband to do it? Is it is it Is there brother? Is there ever a point when the brother goes to the wife? Yeah. I think so. You think so? Yeah. I do. I do. I do. I mean, if you give this dude opportunity after I mean, I'm not saying do this for ten years and then go, by the way, Sheila, Terry's been doing this for ten years. Like, that's I mean, the thing Here's the thing with sneaky living is I won't ever lie. I won't ever lie. Right? And there's no way the brother gets through every conversation without saying there's a woman up in your cabin. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I I hey, I haven't seen

Ted in a couple days. Any idea where he's at? He's up at the cabin with the woman he's got living there. I won't lie to cover it up. That's for So like, I suppose that like, but that's completely based on circumstance. Right. So I don't know if that gets passed either. Yeah. But So I here's I think the hard part is is that if you say it's okay to talk to the wife, you open the door to the wrong types of people, right, who who who will abuse that. Now I Uh-huh. Yeah. It doesn't mean that I don't think it's right. I actually think I I there's nothing about their marriage that

and and that that and his refusal to do the right thing by what is an all acts not even just a sister in Christ, but a sister of mine. Right. If if it is very clear that he is gonna persist, like, this should be the most humble thing you've ever taken and the biggest bird you've ever carried, but I I I don't think that it is it is off the board for you after a time where if he refuses to deal with this for you to to say something about it. K. I just I just don't I I was trying to think, like, when you have questions like that, just put it in the extreme. Is it okay for you to know this and she never knows this, and you know that he's mistreating this person who you also care for? Right. No. That's not acceptable. And nothing about them being married says, well, you can have you can have a someone could be lying to you and mistreating you and it's alright with me because you're married to my brother. That doesn't work for me either. Right. So no. But but I would say, like, that has got to be the the the very last straw Agree. Of you trying to get it's it's the same same reason where where you would have, say, where people get divorced. It's the it's the very end of a line of of trying to get people to do the right thing here, to reconcile, to handle their their problems appropriately, for two people to take responsibility for the thing and work on it. And frankly, you you might run that for ten years

until the like, there's an end of the line. But I I think there is probably a point where, like, if someone is completely actually, if he's if you could take the two witnesses, if he's completely unrepentant and refuses to do it, then, actually, I think you're probably open for business here. Yeah. Because he's gonna have to explain himself as to why he got choked out, why he's being treated this way. And he should, but if he's not going to, I don't I don't think he'd say, well, like, I have to honor

the his what? What am I actually honoring by not telling her? I'm dishonoring her Right. And I'm honoring a a a sluggard and a doofus. Yeah. For what? I'm not protecting him from anything that he that that that's the actually that that's the other thing, and this has come up in a in a few conversations over my life where people get really upset that say that someone may have told you something that they didn't want them to know. But, like, I rarely ever blame the person who brought the information. If it's true, the problem thing the problem was that it happened, and it's always better if you're dealing things in reality. And so, it's almost never the messenger. And to the extent you're like, I cannot believe you told, the first question you have to ask yourself is, really, I cannot believe that I did and that someone found out of it, and I'm ashamed. I get that. It's just human to see that.

It's not necessarily the messenger's problem, though. Like, if they didn't have a story to tell, you wouldn't be in this position. Right. So, yeah, I think it's alright to tell the wife. Handle it biblically, and then I think it's okay to tell the wife, especially if they have kids. Segler says? Actually, I I take away that distinction. Sorry. Tell its wife wife across the board. It's irrelevant when they have kids. Agreed. Segler says, I assume that when your brother confided what he was doing, you gave him your thoughts on it. If you didn't, you should. I find it telling that the person asking me what what he should do is you and not him. Rather than try to run interference for him, recognize the ball's in his court, and he has to decide for himself what he should or should not do because he is playing a very dangerous game. That wasn't advice. Yeah. Yeah. You just commented on the situation. Yeah. Our advice was to stay out of it. It's his business, not your business. I mean, it's a little arrogant to go, he should have written me. Right. I'm surprised you're the one that's, telling on this situation not him.

Yeah. I mean, wouldn't that be true for every situation where anybody's asked advice that there's someone on the other side of it who also probably could be asking for some advice? Any third parties, it should be at least a second. Alright. Right. Let it go. Stay what is that? That's not what I wanted. What's the wait. What what what are the consequences then, I guess? Like, what what what if he follows that advice? What's the worst output? That she gets better. He lets her out of the

out of the mountain house. She goes back to living. That's the worst case, Mike. Or she dies there. Or The the the case is she survives cancer and leaves. I'm trying to figure out, like, how like, in his mind life. How does how does he think this is gonna work? Like, you can move an entire person into your mountain house? What what is what is mountain week? Where you and your wife are supposed to go to the mountains? You're like, by the way, there's a woman there. She's Oh, no. There's a lady here. I don't recognize her from the fact that I cheated on you with her eight years ago. Right? Here's the thing. Crazy. It's so maybe here's the question. Is this is it acceptable as Christian dude to say, look. I don't hide bodies. Yeah. I don't hide body. I don't do it. So you wanna tell me that you have you have a body in the trunk? Great. I can help you with fixing this situation by turning you in and having you tell the right people that you did this thing. I'm in for that to help you, but I don't hide bodies. Yeah. Absolutely. That's perfectly fair. Agreed. There's there's nothing that says you have to keep a confidence like that. Once again, I will help you do the right thing. Yeah. I will not help you do the wrong thing. Yep. If you committed a crime, I will take you to the police station, then you will turn yourself in. Yeah. I will be happy to help you turn yourself in. That's right. I will help you muster the courage to face the right thing Yep. And support you as you face the right thing. But as you try to cover up the wrong thing, I will not be a party to it. Yeah. Love is not in the concept of of eliminating consequences. It's just not. It doesn't work that way. Even Jesus' love doesn't do that. Right. There's no reason that our love is is better because we think we can hide consequences. Right. So wait. So in that is let's go to the body hider.

You obviously got he says, look. No. I don't I'm not gonna go to the police. You're turn him in? Yes. If he refuses, are you gonna turn sure you are. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, that's offense against the state and probably whoever's related to the body. I I don't the the wife doesn't seem any different to me. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. That's What if it's a salt and pepper shaker from your grandma's house? Throw them in. What? Grandma, Ben took them. I refuse to take it back to grandma's. You guys are the ones downloading that app where you, tell the government when there's people out there so not social distancing? Is there is there an app for that? Yeah. Now, see, I have no comment on that because it's likely to get me in trouble, people do actually use the text line. Hey.

That sounds good. What is the number for the text line? It's (515) 517-0085. That's the Bob Eisenhower six feet away, fly from the path text line. Bob Eisenhower's social distancing hotline. The Eisenhower. Yeah. I don't I don't think so. (515) 517-0085. Give us a give us a call or a text. Tell us where we got this wrong. Tell us where we got it right. Tell us you're living.

We're glad to hear all all three. Alright. Let's see. I think that's all we got. Big stuff coming on the show next week. So big that I won't tell you till we get here. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.