Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Pathway. We're coming from the Pathway Studios here at Johnston Proper. Yes. It was like New Year, Ben. Yeah. And it no. Yeah. Here here. This is a new year, and we're starting off fresh. And so I'm gonna ask you

I'm gonna ask you this question. I heard I heard I heard somebody say this to me, like, this actually happened to them, and I thought, boy, I don't know if I have friends like that. Okay? So the question is is are your friends the type of friends who would turn to you and say, I bet you don't have the balls to tell that man you love him. Now let me provide some context. Okay. Okay. Tell me more.

These are recovering dudes. Okay. Addicts, guys from from rougher rougher lives. They are in within an institution of which like most guys are dealing with anger stuff. They're dealing with lack of trustworthiness. But the whole the whole recovery joint is is is totally Jesus based. K? And so they deal with conflict kinda head on,

and they have a there's a high it's it's mostly self regulated. So they have a limited amount of staff. They require all the dudes in the program to kinda keep each other in line. If something's going on, you're gonna you're gonna bring it up, and and you're gonna help help a brother work on his heart. Mhmm. Okay? So I was I'm talking to I'm talking to a dude that's in this situation and there's a there's a particular staff dude that's there. And most people

most people like, guy just rubs people the wrong way, but ultimately, they know like, everybody gets he's like the disciplined dude that he's he's he's doing his best to try to keep things running. And so they may not like what he does, but they understand it's a necessary part. And so this dude has a just you know, the guy that's in the in the program is is just having a rough day and he's irritated with this staff guy. And one of his one of his friends comes up to him and goes, hey. I bet you don't have the balls to tell that guy that you love him.

Meaning, I I bet you are not willing to drop your pride and and tell that guy basically that you, as a Christian brother, love him and appreciate the stuff that he does. Yeah. And I thought, that's a heck of a friend. I probably will I may not put it in the same way he put it. I mean, I probably would have.

But I thought, like, you just just think about your interaction with any friends you have and any time it's like, hey man, I dare you to do this or I dare you to do that. And like this guy is going up to another like learning Christian brother of his and goes, hey, I bet you don't have the stones to tell that other Christian man that you love and appreciate him. What kind of what kind of awesome dare is that? Yeah. I love this place. I know. I thought it was fantastic. And then I thought like, would my friends do that? Probably I mean, but but maybe not the same way. And like, I really appreciated the way that that the way that guy went went about it. He's just not like, I don't like the the we're used to especially in our world, talking about soft encouragements. Well, you know, you should really reconcile with so and so, or you should make sure your uncle knows that he's appreciated.

Right? And this guy's like, you don't have the stones to do it. Show me that you're brave enough. Full man that it would take to go do something like that. What I'm looking at right now is a paper doll of a fellow. I love that. Here's the thing. It's like I was talking I was talking to somebody in a very similar position, and like, they were they were lamenting the fact that like, I just I I love what goes on here so much. I don't know how to, you know, if I will be able to operate in the regular world. Right? Like, come in here and, like, we have chapel every day, and and we spend time working together, and then we come back, and we we do a bible study or something, and then, you know, it's a little alone time, and then we all eat together or whatever, you know. And I the the more he talked about it, the more I thought, you know, actually, what what's going on in there looks more like

what this world should look like. You know? Like that like, it's not like we're preparing you to go out in the real world. Really, the thing is is, like, we need to change the real world so it more looks like like this institution because it is exactly what god set up. Right? If you look at the blueprint for the book of acts, and this is exactly how the how it's We share everything in common. We eat together. We get together every morning and talk about what god's got going on, and we pray together, and then we commune together, and we give people what they need, and we hold each other accountable. And you're like, why would you wanna go out to the regular world? The regular world's a disaster. And and I was thinking about this too when I was driving in. Like, I I can't remember. I was I I was laughing at a guy in a monk outfit or something on a movie. I said that, look at that monk guy go, boy. As you were driving in? No. No. Was a movie coming in? No. No. I don't know why that monk guy came to my head while I was driving. Okay. But I thought to myself, it's it's it's really shortsighted to look at these monks and go, man, what are these crazy fellas doing? And instead, your first thought should be, do they know something I don't know? Right? Like, I mean, they're they're not all idiots in there. They've made a choice to be here and continue to stay. Right? And so, like, I it it started to rattle around in my mind. It's like, how much of that true is is is is when when the rest of the world isn't that kind of the niche that we're going for when people look at Christians to go, hey, man. Do you think they know something I don't know? Because the like, this don't make no sense. You don't look at them the way that they're being and whatever. And having the balls to go up and tell a grown man, hey. I love you and appreciate what you're doing Right. And forgiving people and whatever. Like, putting themselves in situations like this and and joyful when they should be broken. You know? And, like,

is is the crazy monk that you see on the street where instead of just going, there's something wrong with that guy, the thought should be, I wonder if that guy knows something I don't know because he seems like real content wearing that robe and tooting around here in some kind of rope. You know? Yeah. And, like, instead of just instantly going, that man's crazy, I should go, what does he know that I don't know? What is the experience that I haven't experienced? There's got to be something up with this guy, you know? That's what that's my new evangelism tactic for this year. Is what? They must know something that I don't know. They must yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't fit well on a shirt. Speaking of stuff that you don't know, and see, and maybe you've heard this, and I I I I hesitated to bring it up, but I'm only gonna do so for posterity purposes. So that when I go back and I listen to the show a year from now, I get a good chuckle out of it.

Did anybody catch the the prayer, the invocation from the congressman? Yeah. Mike, did you hear about this? No. Okay. Check this out. As The US says from the Christian Post, as US House of Representatives set to implement gender neutral terms in its official operating rules for a new congress, a democratic congressman who is a pastor concluded an opening prayer Sunday by saying the words, ah men and ah woman. I list I was listening back to the show in for 2000 2019. I just started picking some random shows. I had a lot of driving to do on Saturday, and so I was just taking them in. And, like, pretty much every show or every other show, it came up where I said, you think this wasn't true. You think it's it's a satire article from the Babylon Bee or something, but it wasn't. And it's this is I mean, this is a dead ringer for a satire article from the Babylon Bee is someone saying, all men and all women. Yeah. Like a real idiot. Yeah. Yeah. Like an embarrassing fool. Like a man who has no idea. Like, I already get out of seminary. What are the qualifications? You feel like at the very least, they would say, look, even if you

beat the sheep and swear in the closet and drink, can you at least tell us the definition of amen so that you don't make mistakes like this? Right. And no. No. They just I don't know what's he's Methodist. Let's let's I agree. We were talking earlier. We need Wagner in here. Get Wagner in here. I hold him responsible for the whole whole denomination. Yeah. Like, what what are the what are the criteria for the cloth to completely misunderstand the root of this word? So

obviously, he finished his prayer that was filled this this guy's a real he's a representative Emmanuel Cleaver, Democrat from Missouri, finished his prayer that was filled with scriptural and Christian themed phrases by invoking other gods and in concluding with the phrase, amen and a woman, instead of the traditional amen. This is the this is what he said. We ask it in the name of the monotheistic god Brahma, who's a who's a Hindu god, and god unknown by many names by many different faiths. All men and all woman. Cleaver, the former mayor of Kansas City offered. Hey, you ever think that you can't do anything in life, fellas? You think, boy, I'm restricted. I I don't have the talent. I can't pull this off. Just for clarification purposes, this man became a licensed man of the cloth, the mayor of Kansas City, and and he was elected to an official office

in Missouri. Mhmm. Yeah. And this I mean, I don't wanna paint a man with one brush, but this is this is an idiot brush. I have so many I have so many questions. Uh-huh. Let's have them. One, just so we're clear, amen is not the the the root word of man is not in there. Correct. That it It's just a way it's it's it means may it always be or something or I agree. Right? It's not a it's there's not a gender in the term at all. No. At all. It's just a it's a translated word from Yeah. The

That's right. Whatever. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So there's just because it happens to have the same letters as man. That is the only thing it has in common with man. That's it. Yes. That's yeah. That that's correct. Yeah. Okay. Like manatee. Yeah. Womanatee. That's what you would say to fix it. Okay. I understand. Alright. Yeah. That's the mistake. Yeah. Secondly, I don't know, I guess, as much about different religions as as as maybe I should or want to, but, like, do other gods ask for prayer as well? It's not been my my understanding that most gods are not petitioning you to call upon them, but more to serve them and and, like, give them things. Yeah. They want money and maybe some incense and stuff. That's supposed to represent the prayers, I suppose, but Okay. I don't know if you yeah. I don't know. I I thought I thought like like like like the conversation between you and,

you know, Yahweh was fairly in its own category. Like, hey, you call upon like, and and it's not like, hey, you know, do these sacrifices so you will do this or, you know, do this thing or whatever. Like, it's just a conversation between you and and the supreme deity, you know. And I didn't I know there's lot of internal, like, meditation stuff and looking inwards and that kind of thing, but, like, I I thought prayer was pretty, you know, centralized to Christianity. Am I mistaken there? Well, I mean, it's at least centralized to the three primary faiths, the Old Testament ish faiths. Right? So so Islam, Christianity, and and Judaism

all have a notion of, obviously, prayer. Like, Islam super committed. Right. And so the only reason I bring that up is it seems odd to me to take, like, a prayer thing, you know, and then just throw another god in there as if Brahma will accept this. Yeah. You know, as if it's the as if it's the same. Right? Like, it's it's just extremely shallow. I guess it's like, if if you're gonna decide it's the half heartedness of the whole thing. Right? Uh-huh. If you're gonna decide that congress has to also pay homage to Brahma, then, I mean, you should probably figure out what Brahma requires, you know, we're gonna act like Brahma to do it right. Shouldn't we need a human sacrifice? Yeah. Mean, like I mean, maybe Brahma digs on whatever statues and and and wispy smoke. I I don't have any idea. Right? But, like, it seems to me that, like, the the peep for the people that pushed this pushed for this, like, let's say the constituents pushed for this, you should be offended at this half hearted attempt to to try to keep Brahma at bay, if that's what it is. Right? You should be also offended at their half hearted attempt to steal a prayer that belongs to Yahweh. You should also be offended at the half hearted attempt to appease a more gender neutral

conversation by just adding woe to a word. You know? You know what I'm saying? Like, the whole thing should have been offensive because they're placating you. Right? They're they're treating you as if you're small. They didn't take you seriously. They didn't address anything that you actually asked them to to address. They basically patted you on the head and said, good job, little boy. Gave you a lollipop and pat you on the tush and out you go. That's what happened there. That should be offensive to you. Right. Just like you wouldn't want to people to start tacking Jesus' name on the end of some other alternative religions prayer focus Correct. Or like way of going about it. Right. If I want people to know the grace, mercy, and hope associated with the Lord Jesus Christ, I would not accept as you walked down a religious hallway and said, baba baba baba baba Buddha and Jesus too. And Jesus. That that I mean, that wouldn't work for me. Like but but, essentially, that's what just that's exactly what they did, both to the people that are pushing for gender neutral language in congress and also for inclusion of I I didn't even know Brahma was an actual,

supposed deity. But, I mean, you should just flat out be offended. That they didn't do anything, that that gained any points in any direction. They basically just insulted you. It was an it's insulting all around. Yeah. Your patients really don't really you're not that important. Right. Correct. Pat, pat, pat, lollipop. See you, young man. I mean, I would you should be offended. I guess more than you shouldn't be celebrating at all at your place of the revolution of which we're having within congress. All of that should have been very offensive to you. Yeah. I'm I'm just I'm surprised that it like at the low bar of which people find satisfaction,

and even the even the gender neutral terms, like it's like, there's a desire to say I want there's a selfishness to it. It says, I I need to be represented in whatever this is in all at all times. And it's funny because like we have the same conversation about, what is it, the the latest rendering of the NIV. It did the same thing. Like, you know, it tried to gender neutralize certain terms that that obviously had male connotations. Most of them, that that's where the correction or alteration was was taking a male term and making it neutral. And I thought it was funny because they're like, well, we don't want we don't want ladies to feel like they're they're left out. Well, I mean, we kinda have to deal with what was written and recognize when they say mankind, they mean everybody. And the accusation, I guess, that says, well, then the the book is

or the the bible specifically is is too male dominated in its language. Like, I mean, at the very beginning, like old old Hebrew stories of which you should you would assume paternal heavy focus just given the the nature of of where they're at and the cultures that they come from. It says, God made them man

and woman, he made them both. Right? So like the place where like, it's specific the scripture that you're worried about it, the bible as a whole is found founded, like, foundationally upon the very clear cut example that God created both sexes of which you will not see similarities in other ancient literature like that. They wouldn't bother to call that out. And so I I the reason I bring that up is because, like, well, I don't like that, it's it's male language in the Psalms. It's written by a dude. He's he's going to write about dude stuff in dude language. When they're talking about wars and things, they tend to use

male oriented terms. I I get it. We're trying to blur gender lines show the flexibility of humanity, but just just the protest is is is almost always shortsighted, especially when it comes to the biblical record. Like, think it's just a misrepresentation to say, oh, it's over overly it's it's male heavy. It might be male heavy for the nature of some of the stories themselves.

But like, I mean, the notion of God establishing a a history and documentation around his people that doesn't show the equality of of creation as the foundational notion between men and women out of the gate, it's just blindness. It misrepresents the text.

And and frankly, it starts to blur distinctions like it's it's weird. Think of if if we keep down the path we are, we're trying to to eliminate within our language distinctions that actually help not define people but help you provide context into who they are or understand where they're from. Like, you know, if twenty years from now, if we keep going this way on language, like, won't be able to describe anybody by the nature of their ethnicity, skin color, or gender. Names, because of the fluidity of of how we think about either roles or gender, it's not like names will give you way. Like, you lose your ability to go, hey, I saw Ted on the street or remind me who Ted is again.

I'm out of things I can describe him. Right. And and and here's the thing is that like, I was thinking today in reaction to to to some of this and I was, in reaction to our inability to critically think, Dan you had mentioned that earlier, And not get beyond shallow arguments. I I I this was this week has just been tough for me watching people who I think are loving,

kind, wise, faithful people like, be willing to go down in a flaming sword over a over a recount of votes in Georgia. Like, I just can't it's

it's boggling my mind. It's boggling my mind, to be honest. And we've we like, we're not gonna spend time on this because we covered it whatever two shows ago. I'm open to things that otherwise validate the integrity of our election. But like, it's just like, I I I saw people use language that basically said, either I'm right or the system has failed us and I've been lied to. Basically, I'm right. I know I'm right. I have to be right. And if if what I want to happen doesn't happen, then the then things are stolen from me and everyone else is stupid,

and you're being fooled and you're sheep. And the reason I bring that up is because what I was trying to figure out was is that like, how does that flip? Because the last time, the examples we look at in history of which this gets happened where people get so caught up in believing something and not really and they get entrenched in a position, they don't aren't really willing to investigate anything beyond cultural level stuff, propaganda, magazines, news, basic things, of of which they're won't go one step deeper and they'll kind of just believe things without extensive validation.

Like, it took wars to sort it out. Like, it took it took your man being toppled. That's how people get caught up in regimes. It's how people get caught up in revolution ideas. It's it's it's they they they get to believe something and even then, some of them don't ever learn. But like it takes the whole structure being destroyed in front of you to go, oh, yeah. I really just kinda went along with that and I was convinced of it. And like, I'm not saying that if you want a recount in Georgia that you're would support Hitler. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm saying that there that there's there's a means there's a thought process of which like there's a shallowness of our engagement in information. There's a shallowness in our our willingness to accept things that are given to us and and and not really care to engage any deeper than that. I'll I'll give you an example on the other side. And again, I hate sticking

on politics but they're just the most clear examples. So like it's it's big right now that that Trump called the Georgia lawmaker or whatever and like everywhere you look, there's a there's a headline that says he pressured him to find, like find in quotes, I don't know, 11,000 plus votes. And they're talking, well, it was illegal. He's obviously trying to rig the election blah blah blah. Like that isn't really what happened. Right. Now he's the doofus who should watch his words especially knowing who he is and how people take him in. What what what he had said in the conversation was, hey, I think I'm owed like a 100,000 votes, but I I don't need to shake you down for all of it but I I want you to get this process right and and and find me at least enough that demonstrates that we actually won because we did. That's what he was getting at. I I I actually I personally I think he's wrong. They have they have done a hand like, they they have a problem with the machines. They did a hand recount.

Every vote in Georgia came up with, like, four changes in votes. Votes. They were worried that like two dis like deceased guys had voted all over the place. They found two in the hand recount. And so like, I think he's just wrong. I think he legitimately lost Georgia. However, the context of his conversation wasn't, hey, you find a way to grease the wheels, dude. And make up these Right. That but but that's every but every headline you saw, unless you got it from like an extreme conservative section, like it misrepresented what he what what Donald Trump said. And so

so I I can even think the guy's totally wrong, but you have to recognize you're not getting a fair shake in the information that you're seeing. And so I say all that to say what I was trying to figure out was like what does it take if it's not let's say it doesn't have to be seeing everything blow up in front of you and and and failed coups and bad leaders and wars to shake it like, what would it take to blow up an entrenched idea like this? And so let me let me ask you this question because I think this is apropos for for for the guys in the room. Dan, what would it take for you to think that Christianity wasn't true?

Something that you you believe, there's a lot of faith. There's it's it's it's not all super tangible. Some of it's just faith. But like, what would you have to see to not believe it's true anymore? I I would have to see the verified body of Jesus. Oh, yeah. Okay. So

like that that's something that can be proven. It's something that can be seen, tested, understood to say, the man you said that resurrected and ascended into heaven, this is his God. It didn't happen. Yeah. It didn't wasn't true. Yeah. And that would change. There there likely isn't shy of that. It would be difficult to find a notion of a conversation or an idea or a fact that beyond that that would

easily Right. Anything anything anybody would throw at me, I'd be like, well, you're just, you know, making that stuff up. You're you're, you're not you're not true. You're not real. Right. You're just trying to topple Christianity, and you have an agenda and Which is a lot of a political conversation. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Yeah. So so that's interesting because I it it it makes me think two divergent things. The first one is is that, like, it recognizes the religious nature of which some people are approaching politics. That like like you've it's a risk of making an idol, frankly. A person an idol, a political party an idol,

your particular political thought process. Because here's the thing, it would be devastating like it would be devastating to me if they found Jesus' body. Right? It would blow up every the whole way I looked at the world. Yeah. Right? Everything would change. And so it would take the most yeah. It would take some extreme evidence for that to flip in me because like what do you do? It would be hard to look at your life and go like every

way I've looked at this is not right. Like it's it's it's blown up. And so if you apply some of those same thing, like we are seeing similar behavior I think. Like there's there's people that have just doubled, they've doubled down on, and again, both sides of the aisle politically, but, like, you double down on this notion that, Donald Trump is is the biggest crook you've ever seen. And anything that validates that, you're in. And anything that invalidates that is a total fraud and a lie. And it's perpetrated by perverts and and and burglars who are trying to to take over your life. K? Same thing is true if, like, Donald Trump won this election, and I know it, and, like, every Republican judge the guy the guy who runs Georgia's secretary of state's Republican. Like, all these guys are in on it because Trump definitely won. And like, there's there's a religious fervor around this thing. And like, it would take just

mounds of humility for someone to go, yeah, I totally I got that wrong. You know who I thought of as I was thinking about this, Mike? I thought of that Steve Brooks guy. Yeah. That that Yeah. The End Times dude? Yeah. That that was the End Times guy. And like, I I I think he turned down after it didn't happen. I think we followed up and tried to have a a follow-up interview with him and I think turned us down or he didn't respond, right? Right. But I thought, man, I really would like to talk to that guy because he's a guy who had who went all in on an idea and was so very wrong and was very and it was very public and I wonder where his faith is today. I should be praying for that guy actually. And

maybe he's just fine. Maybe that was a pure a great purification moment for you. I mean, it could have been a gift of the Lord. Who knows? Yeah. Well, truth truth is always. Right? So like, maybe it was. But but I say that because is that what it takes? Like, just fall so hard on something to change your mind. And the question is is is like, maybe that should be reserved for the very top thing. Like, I'm okay with Jesus's body being kind of the the

thing. Because foundationally, like all this other stuff, we're not just flying off of no facts here. Like, I think Christianity is is is is foundationally historical. It's proven true over and over again. The the presence of the holy spirit doing work in my life and other people's lives. I've seen it. I've seen prayer work. I've seen miracles happen. Like, we're dealing with tangibles here. So to find an alternative explanation, it would take a lot because we I have evidence up to this point. But that is reserved for the one thing that can really

guide how I see life and guide how I interact with people. I to I I guess what I'm I'm afraid of what it takes to change people's one, that they that they're willing to attach that level of fervor to something that's not at the level of like Christianity or God or whatever.

But second, like, what it would take to change someone's mind. Is it because I'm it it I don't think it's just a here are the facts. Hey. We hand counted all votes. It did it wouldn't it hasn't done anything. It didn't change anybody's mind. We tend to do that with even sports, though. I mean, it's just our nature. You know? If if the guy on my team rapes a woman, I'll be like, well, maybe she Oh, yeah. Maybe she asked for it. Really being honest about this. Yep. If if the guy on the other team rapes someone, it's like, we want him in jail, in handcuffs, we want him drugged behind a car. Yep. And and it's the same thing in politics and, you know, it's just kinda how our nature of being, we jump Yep. On a Yeah. I mean, the thing that you're saying about,

you know, it does have, that's the change. It does have to fall on its face, right? How many people do I know that met Jesus because of that? Right? Because they finally figured out something bad happened to them, and they finally figured out the thought, man, whatever this is that I thought was working, it's not working. It can't be right. And then and then they reevaluated their whole life and found, you know, found Jesus standing there with open arms going, I've been totally waiting. I'm so glad that you're open to seeing me now. Let's talk. You know? And so, like, that is that that is the the conduit. And, actually, I I was thinking about this when when because Ben gets the fever dreams or whatever. And, you know, and and I was about having the same thing, and he texted me when I was I was just about hallucinating. He goes, don't help the Israelites there. They're they're what did he say? Don't help the Israelites. They're they're under, oppression from the Lord so they could turn about and change their ways, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-uh. And and I I don't know how many times that I've prayed consequences off of people without first thinking, lord, let these land hard. Let them land hard and let you let you do some work in here. Whatever it takes. Whatever if if this is what what you're doing, I'm I'm in support. You know? Because, like, it it is those things that tend to mediocrity is the is the enemy of progress. You know? And so, like, they'll sit there and just float along and and and and he's here's the thing that I was thinking about is is I happen to see a couple a couple things from from people I know, good Christian fellas, you know, that, like, I had a lot of respect for them, and I suppose I still do. But they get caught up on one side or the other of even this stupid Georgia thing, and then they start making,

like, accusations or or, like, snide, gossipy comments. And I'm like, woah, woah, woah. I'm cool if you wanna be for or against, but what what's this? What's this change of character while you're in arena? Like, it's a guy who changes clothes when he gets around his fancy friends. You know, it's what happens when when when these dudes get on Facebook and they said, well, if everybody's slinging mud and acting like a turd, I guess I'll wear that uniform. And I'm like, hey, man. We're we have a way higher calling than what you got going on right now, and you're acting like a complete joke. Like, dudes have been on this show. And I'm like, what are you doing? What are you why are you doing this? Right? Just because you get on this one platform I mean, it

doesn't matter how this turns out. There's a couple of these friends gonna have to be I mean, I don't know what they're gonna do. Like, they they've thrown so much out there in the worst possible way that I mean, I don't know how you could look back on those comments and not be extremely embarrassed of yourself. Well, here's the thing. It it takes humility to be embarrassed to yourself. Like, if you like, a lot of that's like, if you you'll continue swinging. If it if it comes back and doesn't go your way, we got ripped off. It was a lie. It was a cover up. It was a blah blah blah. Like, here's the thing. There are things that I personally believe that you could easily tag me as a conspiracy theorist. I believe things that other people don't, and I'm not talking just about Christianity. I there's some stuff I believe that normal people will be like, I don't think so. Sure. Yeah. Okay. But here's the deal. I'm not willing to go down swinging or take out friends or deny Jesus for them. Yeah. Like, it's just what I think. And here's the I I know enough about me to know that what I think is very loose. Like,

I've got some firm things and there's some things where like, I don't know enough to know. This sniffs right to me even if everyone doesn't believe it, but like, I could I could be I could be talked out of it. I'm willing to have I'm willing to have a conversation about this. That's I'm not sold either way. That's right. I I am okay. This is this is where we embrace the good scientific thinking. Like, facts will sway me easily. The presence of Jesus Jesus verified body goes, look, this is not tenable anymore. It's a foundation to our faith. If it didn't happen and his his body lays somewhere, even Paul agrees. Our faith can't sustain here. Yeah. Right. So, like, in the presence of evidence, I can be changed. But, like, are you there's there's a there's a humility thing and I just I guess I'm begging you. I'm begging me. I'm begging us to, like,

be okay being wrong. Like, be okay that your world doesn't have to blow up for you to to change your mind, especially when it comes to non essentials, especially when it comes to things that aren't who Jesus is. Like

and this is me saying I, like, I I care about I like, I can't I care about a country. I care about how it works. I care that the rule of law is done. I care that that to the very best that we can, our government functions as much as it possibly can for the kingdom of God without relying on it one iota, but, like, do your best. I'm for all that stuff. I just I just I'm not seeing a very good balance here. And the truth is and not to beat a dead horse, but, like, most of the people who have balance aren't speaking. They're just not out there. They're not throwing grenades in the middle of stuff. They're not making sure everybody knows that everything was a theft or that that Donald Trump personally gave $300

to the secretary of state of Georgia to try to get votes taken out of his briefcase. Like, either none of these things are not true. Yeah. But like, I I guess that that's what I'm what I'm I'm very rarely fearful of of like what is to come. One, because it's not my control and and two, I know we're gonna be faithful in whatever it is, regardless of where it comes. But like, maybe I look I look forward in trepidation

for the next ten, twenty, thirty years with a whole host of things that come together, not because America will be destroyed, but because the opportunity we have in our country to live with freedom and to watch what man has done with it, with that freedom. And and and, like, the things that that other nations who who most likely serve Jesus in a more proper context or better understanding than we do

are are getting this right. And with the freedom that we have, we're using it to eliminate distinction, to to drive ourselves nuts,

and to let our to destroy ourselves in the name of preserving the very thing that we're destroying. And, I mean, whatever. I'll mourn the death of America, but I won't kill anybody. Like, it won't God will be fine. But it's it's just it's hard to look at it and it's hard to to to think if people if people can't seem to grasp things that I think are validatable by facts, I think, At my very best, I think that like some of this stuff can be proven if you would just accept what's in front of you.

And then think of the message that that that we all know is actually the good news that changes and I've got a a little less tangible facts on that because they're experiences that someone has to walk through to get the value in. You have to to actually see, and you need patience. You need someone willing to walk along with you for a while to see God work in their lives and to see it in other people's lives. And, like, if they're not tolerating voting sorry. Vote counts in Georgia, as an example.

I don't know. It just feels like the the ability to reach said group of people with good news that requires a more sustained relationship or conversation, it just seems harder and it's not beyond God. But I mean, whatever, you know, when it seems harder to rich people to Jesus, it's just disappointing. You know, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I may feel like I'm rambling. I don't know how to articulate what where I'm at with it. But like, it's just it's hard to look at it because it seems like if we're having such trouble on this thing, it makes it feel like the real thing that you that that matters might have that same Here's the thing is though, I I I think it's it's more revealing than that and and you should be taking it heavier than that, is you've let go of the thing that actually matters. Right? Like, focused all their attention, and and they've moved it. And, like, where where their mouth has has spoken,

the Lord Jesus is everything. This is how I live my life. This is how I how I base my identity. Well, let me look and see how you've been conducting yourself with other people. I hate other people. I think they're all stupid. And I'm sure this thing is going on. Anybody who doesn't think this is a blind guide. Well, I mean, you could've put it in a more loving way, I guess. I don't know what you're you know what I'm saying? Like, you've taken you're you've lied to yourself. You've you're if you're gonna lie to anybody, you could at least tell yourself the truth. Yeah. That, like, it's really hard to carry this this this flag of of god's kingdom and continue to act the way that you're acting. It's hard and so you could at least be honest with yourself and go, well, maybe I wasn't there, or maybe I don't wanna be there. Maybe I'd rather be over here throwing slinging mud at the common folk and fighting amongst ourselves. Yeah. Because that's not what god calls us to do, and you know better. And you were saved from such things. And as you got comfortable in that kingdom not doing anything, you decided to jump back in the mud pie. Yeah. And so, like, I I think it's it's it's a, hey, fellow Christian fellows and ladies, ladies, we need to work Christian to straighten this minor thing out about us. I

I think it's probably like It's a major thing. I think it's a little bit more serious than that. I think you you you dumped it completely. Actually, that's convicting because that makes me think like the thing that I was just talking about that I was trepidatious for is a human level problem. Is a bin level, how do you solve this? It's gonna be difficult to get through to these people. They're pretty stubborn. These are God level problems. These are things in which I can just walk faithfully in and God is gonna have to do the rest. And so

Here's the thing. It's like and we just talked about this. Right? There is not I mean, what do I you posted about the show here earlier this week when we were talking about people that were, you know, of of the amount of of of different sections of Christianity that we allow to operate as Christians where we should have stepped in a long time ago and said, look, I don't care what they say, they're not following Jesus. I can tell right now by their actions and whatever they're doing Yeah. That they are not interested in the kingdom. And so, look, they're not we don't have anything to do with it. We're gonna stop. We're gonna put a stop to whatever they're doing. Right? Because we care about

what we're following. Yeah. I think that that everybody is probably, at this point, afraid to say something to their buddy who has This only applies to people that have given their life to Jesus Christ. Right? And have said, this is where I wanna be. This is the kingdom I wanna be, and these are the rules of which we agree to govern ourselves by God's glory and grace. Right? If they agreed to that, you probably owe them a conversation. They agreed they agreed to rebuke from other Christians who said, look. This is not right. Yeah. And then if they I mean, and if they say no, that's not the deal. I'm not gonna do that. You go get another guy, and then you bring two fellas. And then when they don't listen to that, then you boot them up for a while and say, look, man. This is what it takes. This is how we follow. You're obviously not doing it. You were in direct rebellion. And, like, it seems such a small thing to do. Right, because a guy started running his mouth on Facebook.

Right? But let's be honest. Right? You have the option to not use that platform. That's true. Right? And if it's it's like an alcoholic going to a bar. You don't have to be on there. And if you can't handle yourself on there, you should probably get rid of it. Yeah. Right? But you continue to go back to the dirty well that is a half inch deep and dip your bucket in sand and mud and throw it out there, you stopped caring what God had for you that day. You cared what you had going on day, and it's pretty obvious that you had nasty, gossipy Well, and you're hateful things. You're picking fights with other mud dwellers. Mhmm. Right? Like, that's where you're you're not you're not making progress. You're not you're not changing anybody's mind. You're just like you're mud wrestling with some other dude who was also already in the mud with you. Right. Right. There's no win. There's no win in it at all. It's not a Yeah.

And I was like but here's the thing. I I think we retain hope that like it should be a place where you can exchange ideas and people can learn from each other. It should be. It just isn't. Well, here's the thing. I don't know how redeemable it is. Take take the social media out of it. Tell me that there's not a guy in your life that like that at least one particular person, where if they called you and said, look, man, I see what you got going on, and I'm telling you, I

need you to come back to where you were. What you're doing right now is not not only sinful, but it is ruinous. It needs to stop. I can get those messages from a couple three people and go, yeah, okay. I should probably do better. There's probably about one guy where I'd get that message and go, oh boy, I have screwed up crap. You know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. It's real possible that those who are listening, you're that guy or woman to somebody else.

Maybe you need to call like, stop acting like you're doing them favors by coddling them through this thing. I'm not saying you gotta hit them with a paddle and call them names and berate them and and and and break them down. Their identity worth is already established. You don't get to take away from that. Right. But you do get to say your identity and worth is defined by god. But if you are not following that God, then you are ruining your own identity and worth. And I'm watching you do it, and I'm telling you you're doing it. Right. And I think the point is to say, to to stick with the the example we were talking about, hey, friend. I don't care if Trump bought the election or it was stolen from him. Either way, you're not representing Jesus. Correct. Your How you're speaking to other people does not represent Jesus. It doesn't reflect a worldview in which you are trust him with the world that he has created, and you are misrepresenting

hope in the kingdom. And grace for other people for being flat wrong. That's right. Right? How many times did Lord Jesus gotta look down on me, and I am flat wrong. Flat wrong. He And doesn't take out snide posts and crappy sayings and whatever. Right? He does exactly what we just prescribed. Right? He sends the holy spirit after me. He reveals sin to me. He sends another guy to come talk to me and and goes, hey. What are you doing, Michael? What are you doing? Look. Look. Look. Look. Turn around. Turn around. Turn around. Right? And so, like, it it is we probably spent a lot of time on this particular conversation, and maybe it's too long. You know what I'm saying? Maybe it's not a we're gonna win this battle and lose steps. Yeah. Maybe it's not fruitful. But like, I I do I I do maybe maybe it persists. Do you think they don't know that they're being this way? Yes. I think they don't. Think How is that possible? Be blindness comes when you're fighting when you believe you're right. Yeah. They're they're they're standing up for truth That's right. On both sides. Right. And and here's the thing. Things that I that I believe are important. If if if if you think the integrity of of of our process is being violated one way or the other and you're standing up for that, I'm alright. I'm in. I actually I think that's right. I think that's beautiful. But I do care how you do it. Well That that's that's what because here's the thing. In my humble opinion, I don't know.

What do I I didn't actually count the votes in Georgia. Mhmm. Yeah. But neither did they. They didn't volunteer to go to. I know that. And I think that's the difference is that like, I can I can you can only do the best you can? And and so like, I I have a I have what I feel like is a reasoned opinion, but and and I know that there's there's faithful people who love Jesus who disagree completely with my opinion that I've come up with the information that I have. I'm totally cool with that as long as we can handle our use of opinion in a way that honors the kingdom. Mhmm. Be like like, I'm actually I'm after truth. I actually don't care how it shakes out either way. It's not my concern. I think the hard pill to swallow here is is I know most of these fellas, and I know how much effort they've put into it. The only effort they've put into it is the gossipy, slanderous crap that came out of their mouth. That was the extent of how much I'm fighting for truth. In what way did you fight for truth apart from typing, I'm fighting for truth and hits him? That's the that's the that's your entire effort of fighting for truth and getting to the bottom of the thing. You read you read two news articles written by people that already think what you think, and then you went, I'm fighting for truth, and then you posted it. And, like, you didn't go down there. You didn't even volunteer to count the votes. You didn't go talk to a guy that did count the votes. You looked into nothing. Right? You just spat something out your mouth and said, I'm right. Let's go. That that's what I'm saying. It's like like when I saw when I saw the headlines on like Trump said this, I'm like, I

mean, 99% of the news organizations said, Trump says this. He's trying to buy votes. Blah blah blah. I'm like, but it it just don't it don't it could be. That's right. But it don't sniff right. I let me see the transcript. And of course, I read the transcript and I said,

nope. Not not really what they not what they're getting at. I mean, I'm not saying that there's part of that conversation that isn't damning in some ways or another, but like, it isn't what you told me. Yeah. Mhmm. And like I said, I already gave away that I think the man legitimately lost the state. But like, I'm not invested in being right. I just want true things. And if the true thing was that the man won the state, then I'm for it. I am absolutely for it. So maybe that's the maybe that's the the the kicker down one level is like, you cannot say that you are fighting for truth if you're not actually fighting for truth. That's right. Right? You also cannot say that that you are out spreading the gospel to people and trying to tell the good news to others if you all you did was post on social media that that is what you're doing. Yes. Right. Right? And, actually, most of the people that I know that are out doing that don't write about it on social media They don't have time. Because they're busy out doing that. Right? And so once again, the guys that are fighting to make sure that the Georgia election is correct are they're counting bills right now. They're counting paper right now and not going, by the way, counting paper, saying you know what I'm saying? Like, counting paper, we're ahead. Most people that are out doing legit work fighting, like, especially fighting, not just not just, hey. I'm doing my job, but, like, fighting. That means I'm putting concentrated effort into doing something. Generally, you don't have time to toot your own horn, route your own applause, and tell everybody how great of a person you are and the truth that you're after. Yeah. You're just concentrating on that.

So I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to get back to to what you said and I'm trying to figure out why I can't let this go. And I think, one, maybe I should. But two but two, I I think where I'm stuck is that like, is is it possible

well, two things are possible in my mind. Well, multiple, but let's just go with two for now. That as always, the people who are handing themselves right aren't aren't flamboyant about it. They're not in the conversation at all. Because handling yourself with meekness, with humility, going to a brother privately as opposed to flaming them somewhere on the on the inter webs, that's not a public affair.

And so if you're handling yourself rightly, that doesn't always show up. Okay. True. Okay. You're not gonna see it. But two, I can assume that that's happening and that's why I don't see it. Or there's probably a bit of the flavor of the ice cream that says, we we may not be doing enough rebuking here in the right way.

And I I'm talking personally. I don't mean, you know what? I gotta engage the old Facebook ponies, and I'm gonna put my team in a race. That's not what I mean. No. I just mean in our in our in our close in our communal relationships where where where Jesus Matthew Luke both says, look, if you if you see something going on that shouldn't, you have a responsibility to rebuke it. And you have just as heavy a responsibility to forgive when that's forgive that sin when something when it's repented of.

Same levels. But, like, I just I think that some of the things that, like, I I softball touch or, like, I'm like, well, that's just what they think. But I I just wonder I just wonder if maybe it's just encouraging to say, look, if this is happening in your circle. Because I I talked actually, I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago, and he was meeting with some fellas, and like it did it is. It is happening. Like, some of this stuff's just not right. How people are talking they're they're they're saying untrue things. They're not representing the character of Jesus. They're how they're going about it. And I'm like, I don't care what their opinion is. How they're going about it is outside of the character of Jesus. And and, like, that is something we can speak to. That is something the the things I know for sure, character Jesus. Things I don't know for certain, vote counts in Georgia. And I will hold those two things with the right level of veracity.

And our level of rebuke against think about how much time people are spending rebuking their brother for their opinion on the vote count in Georgia and not the fact that we cannot handle ourselves with Christian behavior interacting with that very thing. And so may maybe that's why I can't let it go. I'm trying to think personally if there's just something I'm not addressing that this is sticking with me. I can't think of anything. I've generally mentioned it. But like, I don't I don't wanna keep coming back to this or beating a dead horse. I but I I wonder if the horse isn't isn't dead. Like, because we lack humility and we lack bravery in the face of some of these things to go, look, I we can't we can't conduct ourselves this way. I think I think we we have have really

damaged the witness of the church this election cycle. Yeah. I mean, I really I mean, that's what you've been saying, you know, is agree. I mean, we have mean, I've been part of that to some extent. I rebuke you for that, Dan. Yeah. I mean, see? Knock it off. And and it's it's sometimes hard to know, like, what it where where how far do you go? Yeah. You know, like, I've slowed way down because I'm like, okay. It's like, at some point, for that reason, before you've been saying, it's like at some point, you're you're you're not representing the kingdom. You're just some angry

guy Yeah. Screaming at the wind Yeah. On on both sides Yeah. Of things. And it's like, what's what is more important? That's that's hard to really draw that line and go, well, what really is more important? Well, the kingdom of God is, you know, the church is people's eternity. Yeah. And,

yeah, this I've done a lot of soul searching over the thing and trying to figure out, like, I've even gone back, like, what would I have done in the revolutionary war? Right. Right. You know? Because, like, everything we're built on, I'm like, I don't know. They did some pretty, pretty cruel things though. I mean, were they were actually defending people by getting rid of the the British, you know, with all the stuff going on. But that was but but even then, that's a great point because, like, I mean, it was highly propagandized. It was Yeah. In know, like care people are caricatured, people are riled up about things and you're pressed to a like we have the luxury of of

this being an election of consequence but not of every consequence. Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? Like relatively speaking. Yeah. It's but but yeah, when pressed with it, when you had to make the decision, like it's easy to be like, well, we're just the refs on how you conduct business. Which business you end up with, I'm a little bit open to, which is basically what I'm saying. Mhmm. That's that's cheating.

It is a bit cheating because it says it it basically takes yourself out of something that could be of substantial importance like something like that, like a revolutionary war or some Yeah. Something else. Right. I mean, you know, you you've got you've got Christians talking civil war, and it's like, they're not gonna there's not gonna be a civil war. You know, people are not gonna pull out guns and start I mean, it could in a very small scale, but it's not we're not gonna have some massive, you know, and I think we're just sounding silly.

We really are. And I tend to be on their side and most of the you know, I agree with them, but I'm like, I don't know that that's the reaction. I don't know that's how and partly is I don't know how to move forward. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you do? Yeah. I I mean, I don't I you know? And so I battle myself a lot Yep. On on what is fighting. You know? Like, like, you know, I I'm fighting. I said I'm fighting. Then that's well, that's all they're doing. It's like, that's worthless. That's really nothing other than just throwing everything up. But what does it look like to fight for fight for the thing in a productive way? Yes. What is it? A real way. Yep. Like

and don't know. I'm I'm I'm I'm really I'm I'm speechless. I just kinda Yeah. Don't know what to think or do other than my higher calling is to make disciples and that that's all that matters. Mean, that's what's eternal. That's what's eternal. And

I would hate to have my behavior block me from the ability to share Jesus with someone. Right. And that that's that's where we're at. Yeah. Where people are just, like, turned off by the church, by Christian people. Yeah. If people are turned off. I'm turned off by him. Yeah. You know? And you know, all the prophecy, and I'm like, what? No. I mean should have pictured Dan shared of day of Trump in the lion's den. That was funny. That was funny.

Yes. Know there's people you know there's people weeping over that picture. This is so true. He's the only one of us left. Oh, you didn't see the frame back with his ladies in tow. So that's a really good here's the thing. If if people are gonna reject a message, let it be the one that called them to light. Yeah. That is what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like if we're gonna be if we're gonna rub people the wrong way, let let them be I mean, I'm Let them hate you because they hated him. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Do that. Not hate you because they hated Trump Trump. Because they hated Biden. Or Biden. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Once again, and and I know we've said this, but, like, you have complete freedom

to battle for those things in this country Mhmm. As a citizen. You also have complete freedom in Christ to give up that freedom in service of of Jesus, of of of leading other people to the kingdom. Laying that freedom down and saying, I realize I have the freedom to do this because of the country I live in, but I'm gonna set that aside. I'm gonna let my things be over here, and I'm gonna let God things be God things, and that's what I'm gonna go do, and that's what I'm going to focus on. I realize that it seems extreme to say, just get out of it. Just get out of it. But, like, we do this every four years, and actually in the last three political cycles, we we only take, like, a six month break now. So, like, so that and then we're doing it, like, every six months, it fires up again, and, like, every time you convince yourself that this is gonna be the big deal, and this is gonna be the big change, and then I can look through your church congregation and go, nope. That was a big change. That was a big change. That was a big change. And and as as much as I enjoy the freedoms as much as the next guy,

and and and and don't hear me trying to take them for granted. I just think it's way out of proportion. Way imbalanced. Yeah. I would like, you had to if you had to blow it up and rebuild, rebuild from your from your from a kingdom perspective and then take take that other stuff on as directed or capable.

But like, that's not your initial thing out of the gate. I think that's I think that's the thing. I I was thinking just thinking about that. Look, if if you have and I think this is desperately needed from a from a political, but I mean, perspective in general, this goes with every science, you know, article that comes out with every study on humanity. Like, if you're gonna be a person that that separates wheat from chaff and finds the truth and speaks to it, I think that's sorely needed. If you do not have the energy to for that task, then don't then don't propose to be it.

You know what I'm saying? Like, if don't have the time to sort through all of it, if you're not gonna if you're not open to having your mind changed by by seeing facts and taking in alternative points of view, like if that's not you, then shut up. That's not for you. Then let that go and make disciples. Someone else will have to step in who's got the time and energy to do it. I hate there's a there's a second reason we don't talk about a lot of that stuff on the show. It's like, I honestly haven't vetted out to a level of which I feel confident. Mhmm. Yeah. Who who really knows? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It takes a lot of work to vet that crap out. And so, like, if if that's you, and like I said, desperately needed, great, then do it and speak boldly. If it's not you and you saw an article somewhere or you saw a headline that this represented what happened on a phone call for 99% of the of the media platforms, then don't share if that's all you're gonna do. Because everyone else has access to CNN too. And so we don't need you and your commentary around it. You're the millstone man. That's right. So just let it go. And so like, I think but but but maybe if this is a, if this is a thing for 2021, I'd say I'd say it's it's time to blow it up and say, where do I focus my time, my energy, my heart, my passion, my emotions, my anxiety? And if if any of those are

like, if those things are not answered with the kingdom as the foundation, then you don't have time for anything else, friend. Like, it's time to reorient and get that stuff realigned. And then as God directs you or gives you the platform or the ability to start grabbing things beyond basic kingdom stuff like political stuff, then great. Then I think you probably should. I think God does call influence in that area and I think you should be involved. But like, I'm not if you're not getting the basic stuff right with your time and attention and treasure and money and and everything else, then it's time to blow it up. You need to get out. I'm okay with saying you need to get out of the political arena. You don't you don't belong there. I think you can yeah. You wanna take stock. Look at the things that you are capable of rolling up to God. Right? Your family, the people around you. If you're struggling at work to pray and submit to whatever's happening at your workplace to God, you need to reevaluate evaluate where you're working or what you're doing. If, politically, if if you're if you're not running any of that I know I know people like this. They run everything by Jesus except for their political opinion. Then they just they seem to put on a big, vuvuzela, and out out it goes. Right? Like, they won't make a step. They're like, I'm looking for a new job. I'm really praying on it. I'm really praying that my son gets into college. I'm really praying on this and this. Hey. How do you feel about this? Super. You know what I'm saying? Like, you didn't ask Jesus about none of that. That seems weird. Right? Doesn't that seem weird to you? You run everything through a filter of Jesus Christ except for when it comes election time, and all of a sudden, you're the only guy that knows how to say anything.

That's not healthy for you. Yeah. Right? You're not submitting that to god. And like like Ben said, like, god works through these things. God works through through governmental roles and and how and where you live and where you were born and how countries work and and and and, like, he appoints kings. Right? This is not out of his purvey. But you you know this. Listen to me, friend. You know this. You're not even asking him. You're not even asking him. You're not submitting to him. You're not you're you sometimes you like to side settle his name next to an American flag and a bald eagle and have the book of James open or something and be like, oh, this is all tied together. You made that up. You didn't pray on that. You didn't ask God if that was the deal. Right. You just wanted it to be the deal so you could feel justified all the time you spent on it. Yeah. So if you are if you are currently rolling it up to God, I would say you keep it. If you're not currently rolling up to God, I think you need to get rid of it Yeah. Until you learn to roll it up to God. I've actually I think that's fair. I I would say that that nobody suffers from a back to basics in 2021. Like, to to to cut cut everything else as as a standard. Say, look. I I will let these things back in when they start kicking down my door or God brings them to me. Past that, I've got some core things that are my dudes, especially, you've got some core things that are your responsibility.

I think it's I think I'd I'd blow it up and start over and then say, I'll let it back in when and if I know that I'm supposed to. Yeah. I don't think that's harmful at all. I don't think so either. And frankly, you want you even if you wanna think of this as strategizing, like, now is a good time. You're not gonna reverse the election. And you know what? You don't need any politics talking about the next two to four years going on in the next six months, you don't need to be part of anyway. It's not your business. No. Just let it go. It's it's a bunch of people yapping. And so let them yap. And and so blow blow that thing up and like that's politics. I mean, that's probably a lot of stuff. It's probably alright to say, look, we just came out of kind of a disorienting year for large groups of people.

And then, like, where do I step next? Well, let's just let's blow it up and start your back to basic stuff and then build upon that and then be careful what you let in the door. Yeah. Pick your All takes included. Pick your pick pick what you take in. Pick your community. Do it on purpose. Pick your time with your family, pick what you do with your family, you know, when it's when it's quiet time, like, choose what you're taking in. Don't get don't get pulled around by a ding or a red circle with a number in it just because it it hits you, right? Like, take control of your life, man. Right? Stop getting Check your mail. I'm not checking my mail. I don't wanna. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't want it. Just because someone called you, don't mean you gotta answer it. I actually even do that with my physical mail. Someone go, hey, someone checked the mail today. I'm like, I don't wanna get it today. No. Whatever's in there, wait till tomorrow. I don't care. Yeah. It's because it's my mail. I'll do what I want. And we've had this conversation in the last year, but, like, you're you are you're misunderstanding your technology, even the technology in your house. Right? You I mean, you're letting it boss you around. Right? It's running you like a marionette, friend. Right? Just because someone called does not mean you need to answer it. Just because someone called doesn't even mean you have to check to see who it is. You can just go, doesn't matter who it is. I'm gonna stay right here. I'm busy. I'm playing Candyland with my kids. Yeah. Or I'm petting the dog. I don't care. That phone does not own you. The guy Everybody I'm petting the dog. It's your uncle. Don't care. Don't care. Petting the dog. Here's the thing. I don't have to feel bad about it if I don't go look and see what it is. Right? Like my uncle has his own life. I have my own life. And right now, I'm petting the dog. That's not selfish. That's just a choice that I've made. Right? And, like, I get to decide who gets to interrupt that, who gets to change my plans, and whether I accept them. And, like, it sounds all selfish, but here's the thing. Is everybody did the same thing? People would stop expecting you to answer the phone within one ring or be mad at you. We've allowed that. We've allowed that type of interruption in your life as if we can't go, you know, twenty minutes without texting somebody and going, hi, look, I had lasagna.

Cool, man. You know? I've been so thankful for that thumbs up emoji on all the messaging Oh, I know. Yeah. Beautiful. You're like, I don't know what to say to this. Great lasagna. Thumbs. Yeah. Like, it's the same here's the thing. Here's what's so bad though. It's the same thing I do to my kid. That like, cream cheese is two years old. Alright? He he he jump off that couch 17,000 times. And and you guys have had this young kid, 17,000 sixteen nine nine nine. He's still like, hey, dad. Check this out. Yeah. And I'm like, phoning in. I'm like, thumbs up cream cheese. I call him cream cheese. Thumbs up cream cheese and

I that's the sixteen thousandth thumbs up I gave him. I'm not invested in him, Joe. I I tried the first five and like, boy, great foreign man. Use the center cushion. It really flies. You know? But like I just gave up and I'm thumbsing up. And so if you get a thumbs up from me on the message, like I may mean it, but I may just be going, don't know what to say to you. I'm not quite sure why you said something Thumbs Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Blow it up. Hey, you gonna blow it up this year? Let us know. I'm kind of excited about that. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna take a purposely a purpose blow up and and and try to to relook at my stuff. As a matter of fact, I've already done some of that actually because I've realized that that I've got some I've got stuff that's playing me like a fiddle and I don't like it. And it it generally has to do with my time. My phone it has to do with a lot of time and how much time I spend validating news. I don't know if it needs to play me like a fiddle like that. I think I'm if you guys are bowing out for good health, I'm bowing out. And so I'll casually look at what's on the Christian post before show to see if we've embarrassed ourselves as Christianity.

Past that, I'm probably not gonna invest super a lot in it. There's no risk in taking a year sabbatical here. No risk. You're not gonna change anything. Your activism's not gonna change nothing here in the next year. Yep. Like, it's just just take the year. Actually, here's here's what I know we've overstepped. My my wife's my wife's dad was over at the house today, and I can't remember. We were talking about people who sing or whatever, and someone was talking about a song from Adele. And my wife's dad my father-in-law goes, hey. Have you seen Adele lately?

He's like, she's lost a lot of weight. I'm like, I know. I saw. She's lost a ton of weight. And in that kitchen was me and him and my wife. And the only person who has no idea that Adele has lost any weight is my wife. None. And I looked at him and I said, we're not living our lives correctly. We're like, we know this because he and I are like re like, we're reading. We're taking stuff in all the time, news and he watches it. I I read a lot of it. And like, my wife homeschools four kids and teaches art classes and runs our household and does a lot of really cool things. And it's like, she just she has no time. Has She no time for any of this. And so like major things will happen in world. She will have no idea. And the thing is is her life is not worse for it. The only negative in her life about that is when I go, hey, did you hear about Adele? And she goes, no.

Yeah. That's it. That's the impact. And then I have to go, well, she lost a lot of weight. She goes, no consequence to me. Good for thumbs. Yeah. And here's the thing. It's like that's not apathy. That's just not necessary. Yeah. You know I'm saying? It's not I don't care about Adele. It's just like, it's not my business. I it's it's gonna impact my life. Adele doesn't care whether I know she lost weight. It's irrelevant to me. Yes. It does not matter. It's passing. I don't know why I looked at the story, why I cared about the headline. You know, it it it's just it doesn't matter. And we I think we've come to the belief that a lot of things matter that don't matter. Yeah. And and, you know, it's it's it goes by

think of how many news stories that seem big, and then, like, literally three weeks later, like, nobody's talking about them anymore. Yeah. And then maybe some guy brings it up a year later, and we all reminisce about it. Was like, you remember that? Oh, that was a big big deal. And then after his piece goes down, we all forget about it again because it really didn't matter. I do find that in some of the the year end 2020 conversations, like, I almost had to laugh because I've been in the same position as your wife for probably six months now. I just stopped paying attention, you know? And they're like, oh, it's just a rough year. And it was just one of those, man, we'd just be so glad. There's a dumpster fire every year. And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, you know? I mean, I I mean, there was there was some bad stuff. We're in a pandemic. Right? I mean, yeah. I mean, it's kinda rough, but, like, it wouldn't weigh me down, you know, any different than any other Right? People people get sick every year. It makes me sad. You know? I pray the same amount. You know what saying? Like, the further I got away because it's it's like a tornado with arms.

Right? It doesn't even it doesn't just come to your town. It sits at the other town and grabs for you and tries to drag you into the town. Yeah. And you're like, I'm not fired up about that. Why am I I mean, I'm sad for some of the things that are going on. I'm just as prayerful as I was. I have I but I'm not gonna join the anxiety parade or the depression parade or whatever else we're trying to spin people up and make them feel like, yeah, it was a crappy year and I can emphasize emphasize. Empathize. Empathize with others that have had a crappier year than me. Uh-huh. And I think that's true. But I don't see any reason for, like, half the country

to join the guys that are in the how are you supposed to help people out when you join them in the crappiness? Right. Right? Like, I mean, you know, Job's friends are classic. They just show up, say nothing, sit down, and go, okay. Look at that. Right? Right? They don't show up be like, you know what? Maybe we should scrape all our skin off too so we can feel like Job. Maybe we should burn our places to the ground. Nobody does that. Right? And that's that's the society. Join me in my terribleness. Yeah. No. No. Let me comfort you from a place of where there's not comfort. I will bring you to me. I right. And instead, we're like, I refuse comfort until you are in my position as well. You must experience the same crappiness I'm I I don't want to. Trust me. My day's coming. There's always days when it's dumpster fire at my place. Don't worry. My day will be there, but I don't wanna hang around with another a bunch of dumpster fires. I wanna find someone else with a clean dumpster and go, how'd you get it clean? Or is there clean in sight? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it catches on fire, but it'll be clean. Hold on. Hang tight, Mike. Those are the people I wanna talk to. Yep. I don't want other people setting it on fire just to join me. Right. That seems ridiculous. And that was year end 2020. Yeah. And I stayed out of the news for six months, and I caught back on just at the the very end of the year. And I'm like, man, I wonder what I missed, actually. And I'm like, dumpster fire. Dumpster fire. Everybody's dumpster fire. Okay. It must've terrible things could happened, but they spent so many times making, you know, witty comments about how much of a dumpster fire it was, I couldn't even tell what the news was. Actually Just the general feeling that it was bad. And and, you know, we see that in the advent of of the twenty four seven news channels. Right? Like, you once you came up with the concept that said people want news all the time, you had to find news to put in it. Right. And then what did you do? You like you inundated people with either the same stuff over and over again or a bunch of varied stuff that's that brought in things you would never have heard of and generally were negative things. And so

continued to amp up that, like, when you open the space to say, I will let all this stuff in, then you became responsible for all the stuff and it started to weigh on you. And then if as we're watching that and digesting it or saying, I wanna I'm gonna take it all in, it had the same effect. Like, then it starts it starts running your life. Your need to know your what what what is positive on empathy starts to become an overload because it's more than you can bear. You cannot bear the whole world. It's not possible. We we said we were talking about this a few weeks ago. I I we're we're not created to bear the burdens of knowing everything in the world. Like, you can't. You can't. You're not capable of taking it. And most people can't like, like, there's a lot of people can't do it casually. Like, they just they see it and it and it wrecks them or it see them and it pisses them off. And so, like, you become a crusader on on a crusade that is is is not yours to win and that you have no influence on at all. And social media has given you the false indication that you that your voice matters and that is necessary. And, like, I I I'm glad the empowerment goes. I I I think you should be empowered in your personal relationships and in your community that you matter and your voice matters. But it is simply not true that your voice matters on a giant stage. It probably doesn't.

No. And and the thought that it be that you think it does then causes you to think that like, I'm responsible for having done it. But it means so much to like somebody. I know. Right? To your community, it means your your voice does mean so much. That's right. Your empathy can mean a world of difference, and you are trying to spread it out on Matthew McConaughey. That's right. Who you don't know. You don't know Matthew McConaughey, and you read an article yesterday about how he was on his third island playing bongos with his second born. And you're like, oh, that's so cute. What are you doing? Oh, man. I saw okay. At the end, this is my this is got I guess this stuff has to go. But as an example, I saw someone had written that there was an article, a news article about Lori Lori Laughlin's daughter.

Like, the the college scandal. You know about this? Oh, yeah. Where they they they made them seem like they were rowers, so they get a rowing scholarship, but instead they just kinda paid under the table and got their kids into college. From the full house, Lori Laughlin and Becky, Mike. Okay. Aunt Becky. Anyway, so the article was this person is seen partying two days after her mom gets out of jail. I'm like, okay. And? But the deal was is that, like, people had responded to this picture of this girl. She was out on a yacht or something. And someone goes, how could she even party? Doesn't she know that we're in a pandemic? I'm like, what is the matter with you?

Like, how is giving you a false sense? I don't care what this person does. She may not even be a quality person, this daughter of whoever. Right. But like, to think, to say whatever it is that's going on everywhere else, like everyone has to live as if we're in that situation. Like, when I would rather go, boy, I'm sick. I can't party. I hope you're having a good time. But this person goes, how could she be so blind as to go out and have a good time when

a relatively small amount of the population is not having a good time and is suffering under something. Because, like, frankly, that's true at any given time. Take COVID off the table. Right. Right? Hey. There's a funeral going on somewhere in The United States. Make sure you don't have any peanut butter today, boys. You know I'm saying? Like, it's just so it's so self centered a way to look at the world. And so it it says that my circumstance matters to someone else's circumstance 10 states and 10 monetary levels away from me, and it should matter. And that I hate to like, I think you have you as a person have inherent value and worth. You were created for joy with relationship with Jesus, and I think there's a strong value in your influence within your family and in your community to Mike's point. However,

that means nothing to the person a state away, a neighborhood away, probably two houses down. Is it your life is not relevant to theirs. And you are foolish to think that it is. And you are foolish to think that, like, the rest of the world should then bend to whatever your situation is. And I think we're seeing that in a lot of what people are asking when it comes to language, how people are referred to, acceptance of how their what their life is going on. Like, they can at least accept a libertarian perspective says, look, not my not your business. It's my business. But instead, we're like, you know what? What I what I want in my own house, I wanna be called Chuck even though my name's Darlene. And you know what? Everybody will call me Chuck. And I'm gonna go door to door. And, like, you know what? Your life just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to the person two people down. And and, like, it's not because we people don't love you, but that guy doesn't love you. And he doesn't have to. It's not his business. And so but it's hard. It's hard because what it says is that feels like it's devaluing you as a person, but it's not. It's just saying the reality of

not everybody cares about it. Yeah. You I mean, what yeah. It doesn't change your value as a person. You have overweighted your impact. That's right. Yeah. Right? You know, and so, like, it'd be as if as if I ordered a a pair of socks, and then I sent a newsletter out to the Tri State area and said, Mike got new socks. Here's a picture of the old socks. Here's me wearing the new socks. Yeah. And and then I'm disappointed when 99 whatever percent go, I hate this. Yeah. Don't send me your crappy sock mail anymore. Right? But it has to be so important to you that I did a sock. And even if it's very important to you, like all the things we just listed, you are over you're overplaying the weight of which you think that that

That's the mistake. Yeah. That's correct. Correct. That's the mistake. Your value didn't change, your worth didn't change, but you overplayed on how much you thought that that applied to other people and its ability to encroach on their daily lives. Right? Like, I like, it it is it it's it's self centeredness. Yes. Right? It's a it's a looking to it's self importance. That's probably more self righteousness. You know? I've made a change. Everyone should be aware. I read boy, I'm just totally indicting myself today. Read something today that there was a guy who who went and and he was trying to solicit a he was gonna be a streamer stream his games. Right? He's gonna be a gamer who streams his stuff to people watching. And he was about to, he he goes, hey. Look. He reaches out to a guy who produces music and say, look. I want you to create me a thirty minute buffer music or a four minute intro music and then thirty minute buffer. I want the thirty thirty or thirty second to be super exciting, four minutes to be blah blah blah. The guy responds and says, I'd be glad to do that for you. Here's my rates, blah blah blah. Did this sound acceptable? And the guy guy goes,

yeah. But I'm I'm a major I'm a major streamer. Doesn't this have anything you know, doesn't have weight? You know, if I can get you the exposure through my channel, will you do it for less? He goes and the guy kinda responds and goes, look, I don't really do work for like that any anymore. But if it's big enough, I think maybe we'll you know, we can look at it and I can duck the price down to this for blah blah blah. I think it it would end up being like $500 or something. And the guy goes, how about $50 for both? And the guy's like, no. No. I no. That's that's not that's not worth my time. And he goes, you're really passing up a great opportunity. He's like, okay. Well, send me send me a copy of your latest statistics on how many people watch your thing. And I think the response was, well, I haven't started it yet, but I'm gonna be big. And you should do this work for free.

And like, oh, obviously, the guy didn't end up doing the work. But like, it's that example of of self importance that goes like Yeah. You're willing to take food off that guy's table because you think you're awesome. And that guy, here's the deal, he said goodbye and you will never see that man again. What you do with your life doesn't mean anything at all to that guy and never will. Right. And like, but there are plenty of people in guy a's life of which he does have influence and there's plenty of people in guy b's life of which he does have influence and you should use those and you are valuable in those things. But like the assertion that how how important you are, how far your influence extends, and what that means for other people who don't even know you, like that's that's where that lacks humility. It lacks humility and then and then trying to force that upon a world around you is that also lacks humility, I guess. Alright. Hey. You listen to life from the path. Maybe we got this whole thing wrong or whatever. Maybe it was helpful. I don't know. Maybe we're spending too much time. We always I tell you what, it it never fails. You get three to four weeks in. We're back on humility and social media. So things that are always gonna keep coming up, and either it's because there's still a problem or we have a we have a thing around it. I don't care. If it's still a problem, we'll probably keep talking about it. If it's not a problem, you put the prayer on that and God will sort that out in this room and then we'll stop talking The thing is you wouldn't know if it was a problem or not if you got off social media. That's right. You

talking to me? Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking to you. That's where I post the show. Yeah. Right. That's how That's affecting a solid three people. Yeah. That's true. You know, I didn't even get on social media until like, I was not on Facebook until we started this show. I started a Facebook page, a Facebook account specifically for somewhere to share the show content. Yeah. This show has brought me to trouble. I'm a safe social media user. I barely look at it. I use the marketplace is what I do. I have never bought anything on marketplace. Oh, I love it. I don't wanna buying stuff. I don't wanna meet people face to face anywhere. Freaks me out. No. I have my wife. I'm always telling my wife, you need to tell me when you're going to go pick up somebody's you know, she went to some little old lady's house and and bought

LP albums. Like, she had, like, a a wall full of them, hundreds and hundreds. And I'm like, just because she said she was a little old lady, she she could have been someone else. Yeah. Right. You need to let me know when you're doing these things. Yes. Oh, okay. Then the other day, she's like, look what I got today. I'm like, where'd you dig at that? Well, I met somebody. Like What did we discuss? I mean, one of these days, you're just gonna disappear and I don't know if you left me or if someone hit you. Right. My wife ended up she said she was supposed to meet someone in like a parking lot to go pick something up. Yeah. And they said she got a text and said, oh, just it's not right there. It's over here a little bit, and it's an abandoned hotel of which people are living in. I said, why didn't you just Yeah.

I really wanted that thing. And so she and someone brought it out. Like, some kind of dude comes around the corner and obviously living in this abandoned hotel and brings this it was like a pot or something. Like, it was something so asinine. I said, well, we will order it new. We got little pots. We get we got we got got we got lights for our house that was like a like a LED, really super bright. Yeah. Okay. Guess that's okay. I mean, we had lights. Well, maybe I should get on this marketplace. I mean, here's the deal. There's some good I mean, there's some good options in there. Right? But, you know, if your wife gonna go, like, I agree. Just tell me when you're going Yeah. And where. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe text me when you get there. Right. Well, so real quick, I gotta tell a clean Christian joke. Ready? A busload of politicians were driving down a country road when all of a sudden the bus ran off the road and crashed into a tree in an old farmer's field. The the old farmer, after seeing what had happened, went over to investigate. He then proceeded to dig a hole to bury the politicians.

A few days later, the local sheriff came out, saw the crashed bus, and asked the old farmer where all the politicians had gone. The old farmer said he had buried them. The sheriff asked the old farmer, were they all dead? The old farmer replied, well, some of them said they weren't, but you know how them politicians lie. I'm not sure that qualifies as a clean Christian joke. I think that It sounds like murder. But it is on christiansunited.com jokes. Oh. Alright. Let's give some advice, Mike, and we'll call us a day. Okay. I'm trying to pick between these three.

Let's go for the crazy grandson. Dear life on the path. My father passed away a few months ago. My brother lives out of state, so emptying the house has been up to me. Shortly after the funeral, my adult son, the only grandchild, arrived and loaded his car with all the toilet paper, paper towels, light bulbs, cleaning products, etcetera. He did it without asking, so I promptly had the locks changed. When I asked him about it, he said, grandpa don't need that stuff no more. That's true. After months of packing by myself, we are now down to the furniture, and my son wants everything. He feels he's entitled to it. Rather than select one or two pieces, he is gimme, gimme, gimme, and sees nothing wrong with this attitude. I didn't raise him that way, but he is that way now. What should I do?

I I mean, she didn't mention it. They're not like heirlooms. I think it's just a bunch of furniture laying around. You're give it to the I mean, here's the thing. Saudi Asian Army or It's not gimme, gimme, gimme if you're like, who wants who wants a couch? I do. Who wants this chair? I'd like that chair. Right? That's not give me give me give me give me. And I mean, he was right. Here's the thing is is he's the only grandchild, which means you only had one kid. Right? And so You've already got a house full of furniture. You don't need Right. I mean, he's probably broke, so he probably was like I mean, he could've asked. Seems a little rude. You know? Like, hey hey, look. Is it okay if I take, like, the toilet paper, the cleaning products? I could actually really use them. Like, he's not going about it very well. But, I mean, if you're asking who wants the furniture or even if he's showing up and be like, hey. Is anyone else gonna take this furniture? Because I could really use it. I mean, I don't know. That doesn't seem gimme, gimme, gimme, does it? I mean, I suppose you could play this out depending on the words that are coming out of his mouth. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

But I mean, you're you're what I mean, what what's he, like, 25? Are He's not trying to steal something. I mean, it's just Right. Maybe he's helping you. Look at it that way. Hey. Get this out of the house. Okay. Yeah. That's how I was thinking of it. I mean Like, here's the thing is that, like, if you if if you were on good terms with your kid, let's say you trusted them, they were otherwise good people. If you were responsible for this and they showed up and I and I came in there and, like, all the paper towels and all the stuff was gone, I might call my kid and go, hey. You Did grab that stuff? They go, yeah. Yeah. Grandpa didn't need it. I thought I I needed it. I came and picked up and like, sweet thing. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because what I didn't want it. Like ultimately, it it served a purpose. I think the same thing is true for his furniture. Unless there's, like, something that reminds you of your dad. Right? Like a desk he writes at or what, you know, whatever. And just say that. That just say that. But like It's like you've had time to take care of that already. You I'm assuming you're in your fifties. Most people have the couch thing handled, and they're not waiting for grandpa to die so they get his sweet couch for thirty years ago. It's got cowboys and Indians on it. I want it. I mean, that's just not generally the case. But once again, a kid, a younger kid, like in his twenties, is like, wow. Couches that don't stink don't stink or smell like burnt pizza. Cool. Can I have these? You know what So I'm like like those type of exchanges really help younger kids, but you as the as the child of the guy that died, I mean, you don't really want his TV. You know it's an old crappy TV. Yeah. He didn't even he didn't buy a brand new TV. You already got So

it it seems weird. Dunno I what you'd expect out of him. Right? If you asked, then your kid's like, yeah, I'll take it. That's not being selfish. If he's like, hey, can I have first dibs on this stuff? Well, sure. You don't want the couch, so you're lying to yourself. You know I'm saying? You wanna fill up the the the local Salvation Army with it or you wanna give it to your son? Like, it's like he wants his dad to be he wants the dad wants the son to be, like, super grateful to him for stuff that everybody knows he doesn't want. Right. And that never didn't belong to him in the first place. Yeah. Grandpa doesn't need right. You're not bequeathing it to your son based on your mass riches. Right? Grandpa passed, and he's got a house full of stuff, and it needs to go somewhere. Yeah. But when when my mom died, she had a car that was really kind of a cool little car, little little, like, purple or bright blue, whatever it was. Was bluer purple in that family to the color blind guy. A little sports car. You're color blind? I am. I did not know that. I mean, like, blues and purples all I That explains your shirts. Of the two, you know. Years, Stan. That explains a lot. Okay. Carry on. But but I

remember I I I drove the car home, and I thought, well, this car is kinda cool. I think I'll keep it. You know? It'll save me money on my big truck, blah blah blah. And, like, it wasn't two hours later. My daughter, the only grandchild that that could drive, pulls up in her, like, beat up Jeep that had been in a wreck and all she goes, man, can I have that car? And I thought, you really could use this better than me. Right. And so I got out of the car and never got back in it again. I was like, I That was the end of it. I was like, well, well, you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't understand the issue. This is a weird conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the final question? What should I do? No. It was I didn't raise let's see. I didn't raise him that way, but he is that way now. What should I do?

Yeah. I mean, it's really not a question of how you raised him, I don't think. Yeah. I need more evidence to see that's how he is. I don't know if that's how he situation. Right? Like, is he coming to your house every Tuesday saying, give me give me give me your Cheetos. Give me give me you know? Is this a one time deal? Like, here's I I think if I if you had to put a whole story together, look. Your your dad just died. You're processing how to handle this, and you're probably burying yourself and doing the the everyday stuff. Like, getting the house cleaned out and taking your mind off it and whatever. And, like, you need something to be upset at. So I I think you're taking it out on your boy. Yeah. I mean, he might be a little turd. I don't know. But the story that you're telling and all the circumstances at this point, it seems like he just could use the stuff more than anybody else compared to everyone else in the scenario. And so I you know? I I think there's more upset that he they didn't get help. That that's Well Yeah. That's true. I'm that's twice, I think. I mean, but you do that to your son. You're like, hey, man. The couch is yours. You and your buddies come get it. I'm not bringing it over to you. Right. Right? You got two able bodies and nothing else to do. Come pick this step up. Yeah. You got help. You just don't like it that it came from your son. I don't get it. Yeah. I think you're in the wrong, sir. Mhmm. Segular says, although at this point, it's a little late, what you should do is finally say no, Unless your father stated specifically in writing that your son should get everything, what he did is considered stealing. Oh, I don't think so. Well, I mean, I just don't. Yeah. I mean, monetarily,

even if you add everybody's crap up, minus, like, the jewelry or whatever, but just like the furniture, the dining room table, you you get like $600 here. You know what I'm saying? What do mean? Like used couches don't go for nothing. The table ain't worth nothing. The chairs ain't worth there's that monetarily, none of it's worth anything. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything to you. I don't know why you care. Especially kitchen tables. You know how much younger couples really appreciate a decent kitchen table? Everybody goes through like the crappiest kitchen table. Right? When you're like, boy, we gotta get rid of this thing. And finally, when you get one that stands up on its own, it doesn't rock, you're like, we've made it. You know? Like, I like fit four people on this thing. It doesn't tip. It doesn't turn. Yeah. I mean, it's really something. I it's just you've put a weird foot in the sand. Yeah. Alright. You got of the three, you got one more? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here we go. Oh, this one's short. Okay. Dear life from the path. We have a friend who often comes to us for advice but never seems to take it. She keeps making the same mistake over and over again. How do we get through to her? Here's the thing, because I had this conversation with a guy earlier this week. This Christian world view. Right, boys? Look, you pray and you hand their situations over to God. You are not them. You cannot run their life for them. You can give them counsel when they ask, and you can pray and pray and pray and pray. And then as the feeling of responsibility comes sneaking back in when they ruin their own selves again,

you pray and pray, and then you talk to them and counsel them and help them do good things and help them steer away from bad things, and then you send them off to live their life again. You can't live their life for them. Their choices are their choices. They were given most likely all of the facts ahead of time, and they chose the bad thing. And like, you can't let it own you, you can't let it weigh on you, you don't own all thing. You're gonna feel sad as someone you love continues to experience bad things because of choices that they make. But their hope is in only one place, and the sooner you can realize that it's not you. Right? Especially as a Christ follower, for a lot of years, I think I I assumed that if things were gonna change, it had to be God working through me. Well, turns out that God has a cattle on a thousand hills and a lot of people that love him. And God can send other people to go talk to your friend, your family member, your coworker. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't actively be asking what God has for you and who and and and how to spread the good news to other people, but it's not for you to zone in missile style on one person and go, this one's my responsibility.

You're misunderstanding God's kingdom and who's actually in control here and whose kingdom it is. It's not yours. Right? It's God's, and he will direct you to do it as he sees fit. He will send other people to do it, and he will let people run to ruin so they see him. Look at Israel. He's did it multiple times. He said, you keep doing this. I'm gonna have to make you feel it, so you turn around and see me. So lament the fact that someone has to go through something hard, But if you know Jesus Christ, pray that God uses it for his his purposes because he's he's it's a character. He's done it before. It because otherwise, we just talked about this. This the first half of the show. People don't listen. People don't listen when they're rolling around on waves and thinking everything's great and drinking sun tea. Only when the boat crashes do they go, boy, I hope there's a god up there to talk to because we're in the real straits. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? God says, I have to get people to turn to me and people like, hey. I wish you'd showed me earlier. I did. Did, I and you didn't you have want anything to do with it. So now I have to wait till the boat crashes. So I get it. It's hard. I get it. There's a lot of guilt and weight and sadness associated with it. But once again, you can judge the things you can handle by the things that you can roll up to God. You can't do this without him. Right? You can't and and even if it means if they're if if if you can't handle their friendship or continuing to bring bad things to you, if if you can't roll that up to God, you should probably get rid of that friendship. Because if you can't roll it up to God, you're gonna own it and it you'll sync with it. It will destroy you and it's not helping that person either. Correct. It's a lose lose on both accounts. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good that's a good way to think about it

in that if you continue to give advice and someone doesn't take it, there are appropriate emotions related to that. It's okay to feel sad. Mhmm. It's okay to mourn the fact that people are continuing to make bad decisions. What doesn't serve you at all is anger that they refuse to do it. Fear. Fear on the on the consequences of what their anxiety on what they're gonna do next. And that's hard. That's that is difficult. Yeah. Yep. Or guilt that maybe you gave the wrong advice or didn't do it in the right way or blah blah blah like those are all things that we are prone to because we care. It is okay just to restate,

it's okay to mourn because you care. It's okay to to be sad for them because you care. It's okay to hope for improvement. It's okay to persist in prayer, but it's harmful to you to take on the burdens of anxiety, fear, guilt related to people who who simply don't wanna take any advice from you. Yeah. Under,

again, with the small caveat, under the assumption that, like, you actually, one, give good advice and, two, don't do it like a weasel. Yeah. Like, if you need to repent because when you say give advice, what you mean is I chastise them and told them how worthless they were and forced them to hit rock bottom with my words. Okay. No. That's you lost. You should feel guilty for that and repent of it directly and then do better. But assuming that you're otherwise approaching things in the in in the right way and people are just making wrong decisions, If you if if it helps and to write that stuff down, to just write the words down, here's what it's okay for me to react to this and circle them, and then write the ones that is not helpful to react to and then mark them off, sometimes that's helpful to do, to be honest. And, like, I I just I say that from experience. Everybody

in this room, has had many, many experiences of of trying to counsel somebody in some way or another, giving them advice, and then just sit flat out refusing to take it. Some family, some friends, some part of ministry relationships, whatever. It's most people have, but just I know in this room that's been true. And, like, sometimes it's very difficult to separate those things out and and and and have mourning and weeping or, and sadness not mixed very easily with anxiety and guilt and and those types of things. And so if, you know, if you need to make it tangible, just write them down. Circle the ones that you know are okay. Cross those out. Prey on the ones in the circle. Secular says, the question was, how do we get through to her? Secular says, candidly, realize you can't get through to her because she's not really seeking advice. Rather than listening, she's venting. Because of the friendship, listen when she dumps, but refrain from offering wisdom you know will be disregarded. Disregarded. When That's the exact kind of attitude that I think puts us in the straights. I

mean, I just can't listen to somebody go on and on and on about the wrong decisions they're making and not love them enough to go, that's gonna cause you a crash and burn scenario, friend. I I really think you should reconsider. Mhmm. I mean, I just I I I realized that you're take you're insinuating yourself. You're not insinuating. They invited you into the situation. And so, like, I have a real hard time listening to the venting anyway because the woman says I'm a fixer. And so I will have a hard time just listening to whatever's happening Without giving some extra stuff. Be like, well, here's here's what I think we should do. Yeah. You know? But so, like, it's a fault of mine, I guess. But I I don't I don't see any value into someone saying, well, here's what I think I'm gonna do or here's what I think is gonna happen. And in the back of my head, go, that's a disaster. I don't think you should do it. And I'm going, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. No. Yeah. You gotta tell them truth. And they're like, no. Look, man. I don't think that's a good idea. At least hear me out on my reasons why. And then if you still yeah. If you wanna plow ahead, then I guess plow ahead, but I can't. And I I actually think I actually think people are a little bit more complicated than that. I I think sometimes people are actually asking for advice, and sometimes they leave your presence with every intention to take it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then they run into another influence or, like, they're fighting

demons is overused, but, like, they're fighting addictions or pulls or identity stuff, and they just and they didn't end up taking your advice. And maybe that you, you know, they intended to take your advice 10 out of 10, and they failed 10 out of 10. It doesn't mean they didn't actually want to. And so, like, it's it's always more complicated than that, which is why, like, I think it's okay that you have to be willing to give eleven and twelve and thirteen as long as you can find a way to stay healthy and and not, again, bringing the anxiety and stuff on your own life. And at the time that you can't, then it's okay to sever for a while until you're in a healthy place to be. Yeah. I do. Okay. Hey. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. We really appreciate it. Welcome to episode one of twenty twenty one on Live From The Path. Hey. We'd love to hear from you. Again,

up on the complaint line, (515) 517-0085. And that's call or text. Either one is great. We're super encouraged to hear from you. Again, if the show has been helpful, you know, that that keeps us afloat in here. And if it's not, frankly, we wanna know. In the nature of you in the name of humility, If we're getting it wrong, we don't mind hearing about that either. So use that complaint line again. (515) 517-0085. Sponsored for the let's go fifth year

by Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team. Let's see. Oh, hey. And also, if you wouldn't mind, if you haven't done this yet, if you wouldn't mind giving us a rating on whatever podcast app you use, that would be super helpful. And like, I'm gonna ask you to do something if at all you have the time. If you ever hear anything from the show that just sticks out with you, a quip or a phrase or something, and you wouldn't mind sharing that out for us, and, like, I hate this rubs me the wrong way because, like, we're trying to advocate off social media. And, like, again, I got on it for the show. But if you're otherwise handling it in a healthy way and you find something on the show that's worth, you know, tweeting out or something, you know, whatever, we don't mind that. That'd be helpful for us. So that's all I got. We hope to see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will hand the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.