Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. I'm coming here from the Pathway Studios

here at Johnston Proper. I'm gonna tell you a secret. No. I I don't I don't I can't be trusted with secrets. Don't tell me. It's best if you don't say. Nobody keeps up on our website. Oh, dang it. Actually, do you know how you would know that? I totally botched it up today. I got I was I I was sick of it. I was like, I went out to the website. One one, it it goes really slow. And two, there hasn't been a new video out there for months. Yeah. And so I said, I'm sick of this. You know what I do relatively religiously is podcast. I keep the podcast up within a week or two. Few weeks.

Wait a minute. A few weeks. I just wanna I just wanna make sure our definition of few is the same. A few a week a week or so. I feel it's like five weeks is the mean average. No. No. No. We're up to date. Okay. Last week's show is up right now. Okay. Good. So anyway, I said, I look, and I don't think anybody watches the videos on the website anyway. And so, I wanna go I was reorienting the website to be more podcast focused. Mhmm. And so I changed out a couple things, and I totally broke the podcast. I it took me three hours to fix it today. Luckily, my employer does not know that, and they paid me this afternoon to try to fix that podcast up. What else? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. God bless them. And so, anyway, it's it's it's running. It's running. I I also talked to people on the phone. They also they didn't know they didn't have my full attention. So, anyway, I'm working on that. Give me, like, a week or two, and then, with the lifeandthepath.org will probably still be slow because we don't pay for the top tier. But, you know, maybe we'll look a look a little nicer. We'll see how it goes. Okay. So here's what we got going on the show today. Yep.

I I was having a talk with a fella and he used he used the phrase, this is my truth. And and I had it was it was a longer discussion than I thought it was gonna be because I basically we're talking about management styles for some reason and I said, look, cause I like to hash it out. Like, don't mind having a I don't mind having a a conversation because I think there's a truth in there somewhere. And I don't mind being wrong,

if we talked about it and it turns out that I wasn't right, you know? And he goes, well, it doesn't really work like that because people have all these things that they believe to be their truths. And I go, I mean, that doesn't equal a truth. Right? That's just the guy's a non perceptive or, you know, he he believes something that's incorrect. And he says, no, no, no. The world does not work like that. And I go, man, I just feel like this is where that thought were like, this is my truth thing comes from. As as if there is no truth to be known. And so I don't know. I started thinking about it and I thought, why is it why does it seem so hard to to find truth? Right? Like if there is a true thing out there, why does it seem so difficult to get to the brass tacks of it? Right? Do you feel like people

I I mean, I I suppose you could add a couple things in here and realize that like, people don't like being wrong for one. And so they'll say, well, this is just what I believe. Here's the example the guy gave me. This was a perfect example of it too, is he goes, so I was working at a hospital and he was like the head of facilities. And one of the guys that worked there knew that he was an electrician and just said, like, you're the laziest, worst electrician, whatever. Every morning when I walked through the lobby, all of these light bulbs are off. Like, the the bulbs are burned out. And how could you not notice that and why wouldn't you fix it? And he goes, so the thing is is like his

his version of the truth is is that I'm a lazy electrician and that's all why all the lights are out. And he goes, in actuality, those lights are on a sensor. So when the sun comes out, all the lights turn off because we don't need to run them anymore. And I said, okay. So that just proves my point. Right? Like, there was a truth in there. That guy just didn't know it. And he goes, but that's not how the world works. That guy believes something and it's his truth. And I go, he believes a lie. That's that's the thing. So there is a distinction to be made in there because, like,

I I well, there's multiple. But, like, there's a difference between he doesn't know the truth because he doesn't know the whole story, which is the which is that this guy's example. He thinks the guy's lazy, but he actually doesn't know enough to actually render the situation correctly. And then there's my truth that relates to people's perception. And not because they lack additional information, they just flat out take something in differently. Like, there are people where you

I we're we're like colors. Right? But my wife and I, she keeps painting things this weird blue green color. And I say, hey, man. That's blue. And she goes, no. That's obviously green. And the the reality is is that something about how we physically take it in, it seems more bluish to me. It seems more greenish to her. We have all the facts or we we can everything that can be taken in has been taken in. We just perceive it differently and are rendering it differently. And so, like, the the first one can be can be helped. You can always if people are missing context or information,

it can be acquired and can otherwise change what they think if they're open to doing it. The second one is much harder because people when you when what you're fundamentally taking is either shaded or not the same as someone else, that's where it's very difficult to reconcile what the what the actual reality is. What feels objective to somebody isn't really that.

What did you say? You said that, it it can be helped if they're open to taking in the full story. Do you feel like that contributes to maybe some of those situations where people are like, I don't need the full story. I know what the deal is already. I don't need to talk about this anymore. Yes. Most certainly. Like, oftentimes, what what it's called confirmation bias. You people tend to look into things for as much as it takes to confirm what they already thought. That's the Internet. Yeah. Right. And then I think, oh, well, then I was correct, and that's all, like, here's this here's this news. And people what they say is that, like, there was a I don't remember what the statistics

was, but, like, they could otherwise prove that people were constantly sharing articles that they never read because the headline otherwise confirmed something that they believed. And so they would be like, hey, take this. This proves my point. I'm like, you didn't even read that article, dude. This actually doesn't even say what you think it says. But you only went so far as it took to say, oh, well, now I'm right. Now I'm justified. And so it's a confirmation bias. We tend to want to be validated. Very few people are actually open palettes to go, you know what? I'll take wherever the truth leads me. Wherever the information shows, I'm actually free to be changed. And so so, yes, that that is generally the case. And so if they if you had the perception that the electrician was the laziest electrician,

when you, look up and you see the light was it on. Right? Off. Off. You see the light off, then you go, see, I knew that guy was lazy. Heck, tell me you haven't done this. I just we're gonna say this with our kids in the room. But tell me you haven't done this. You've seen your kid demonstrate some sort of behavior with probably laziness. Right? And then the next something else happens, like, right after that, and you're like, we just talked about this. You are blah blah blah lazy because it affirms the thing I just went off about. But in reality, either they didn't do it or there's a perfectly good explanation as to why the thing was still sitting out. Yeah. That happens to me the time. Yeah. Right. And you look like a real boob. Yeah. Because what you did is you found the thing that affirmed, validated the perspective that you probably went too far in on.

I just did that thing with, like, the article pretty much, like, an hour ago. We were discussing something, and I looked up to see if I was right. And I got, like, halfway through the thing that in the end said I was right, and then I tell whoever I was talking to. And there was actually more to the story. In the end, I was right. Right. But you stopped looking to As see if you found soon as found, hey, I was right. Yeah. Actually, was just thinking about this. I've done this recently when I was trying to fix my mower. I'm like, mower broken, fuel filter. And that was my search because I thought it was the fuel filter. Turns out it was not a month later. Finally figured out the deal. Instead of saying, mower not running right, here's all the troubleshooting symptoms. I'm like, mower not running right, fuel filter. And then I found an article that says, it's probably the fuel filter. I'm like, I knew it. I'm buying a fuel filter. And boy, howdy did and I did that same search for a fuel filter, a carburetor, two spark plugs, and new new lines. And what turned out to be, there was a clog in the pickup tube of the gas tank. That was I didn't search for that, and I didn't go general generalized troubleshooting. Right? I looked for the thing that would prove what I thought, and then I took off. And so maybe maybe that's a a big source of of my truth. Right? I don't wanna know anymore. I think I know enough. I'm good to go. I'm gonna I'm gonna go forward. Yeah. So so Jesus has interaction with Pilate.

This is in John 18. And he's this is like the back half of this interaction. And Jesus says to Pilate, my kingdom is not of this world, said Jesus. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight so that I wouldn't be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here. You are a king then? Pilate asked. You say that I'm a king, Jesus replied. I was born for this, and I've come into the world for this, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice. What is truth? Said Pilate. And after he had said this, he went out to the Jews again and told them, I find no grounds for charging him. And so, like, this is actually a really good example of Jesus says, this is what I'm coming for. This is who I am. And Pilate isn't just saying, I don't believe you. That's not really what he's saying. He's saying, like, what is truth anyway? Like, if what you say is accurate, but what I'm looking at in front of me doesn't test seem to testify to that, What good is this? How would I even know it's real? How do I know what is actually true? And you have some of these conceptual things. You get it when you do, like, apologetics around Christianity specifically.

Like, a lot of things we will say, well, I know this to be true. Our notion of truth often feels intangible. It's either unknowable by humans, unvalidatable by humans, or feels intangible. And so it's very difficult to say, well, if that's true, but it doesn't walk like a duck or talk like a duck, how would I know it's a duck type of question? And so, like, like, even pilots dealing with this notion is like, well, I hear I hear you saying that, but like, what is truth? You're saying it's true, but what is truth to me? What is truth anyway? I believe a different set of things. Now what are we gonna And and truth can't be what the, like, majority of people agree upon. Right? Like that can't be that can't be the definition of truth of of say what people just because people agree on it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. Yeah. I have something on that. There's this there's this, like, concept out there. I was watching, like, a bunch of a bunch of videos about a bunch of different conspiracy theories. And one of them was my blue is not your blue. And it's basically the concept of, you know, you know, we think, like, if I pointed at something that was blue and said, hey, that's blue. Most people would agree. But if someone was taught, hey, that color is red and say, that's red. That's red right there.

Yeah. Yes. That's right. So, like, the and this goes back to that second example where, there can be if what is true is a is actually a question of perception, you can have multiple answers. It can be true that that looks greener to me

and it looks bluer to my wife. Or in Grace's case well, so now the now in in in Grace, in that example, if you were taught red, the only reason that red is not wrong or is not right is because as a society or a group of people, probably years and years ago, we agreed that we were all communally gonna call that blue. Like, it is still an agreement. Like, we're coming to like, there like, we're we're working on a foundation of which humans had said, look, for ease of communication,

this is what we mean when we say blue. I mean, if we're talking sorry. I mean, if we're talking truth, like, it's gotta be like, language has gotta be weird because, like, if like, once again, if I'm looking at blue and I say, that's blue, some like, you know, in in Spanish, it's Azul or something. Yep. And, like like, doesn't directly translate to blue. They just call that thing blue because it is. Yes.

And so, let's see. Just just appropriateness of the room. This is a lot of there's an interesting intersection in this question when it comes to how people understand themselves. Because there is both a question of perception. What do I what does it feel like to me? How do I take in the world? What do I feel like in my mind or in my heart? And then there's a question of objective reality, which is your physical characteristics are this.

And like, what where we where we have problems in the type of this type of conversation is you've got one side or one group of people who entirely wanna focus on what their perceptions are as if it's objective truth. But it's not. We have to admit when our perception or our perceptions. I feel like this is a totally valid thing, but it is a perception. Whereas there's an objective reality to my physical characteristics are this. And that's that's and we've agreed upon, like, this is what this means when we say these things exist, these chromosomes exist, whatever. And we don't actually progress in the conversation when we can't be honest about

how much what feels true what the feelings that are real true this is where like, using words true, I think, blurs this a bit. Our feelings are real. They are real. And to us, my perception is that this thing is true, but that is not the same thing as the objective reality of my physical characteristics that are true. You know what saying? And so, like, where we we tend to and even if you move outside of that subject, like, where we don't make a lot of progress is when we try to to blur that too much, where we don't honor the fact of what people's perceptions are without also holding to things that should have some sense of objective reality.

And and that's that's difficult. It makes it very hard to make progress on what is actually real. Because I think we we should in general be able to agree that every time I've just because I felt something doesn't mean that was a real or even more or more likely a permanent thing. It didn't mean it was always true. It just means that was my perception. It's what I felt at the time. And it's okay to be honest about that, but you do have to be clear that, like, that doesn't mean it is a permanent thing. It is a matter of perception. Yeah. That's true. How many people went through high school or whatever and, like, had a crush on somebody Yeah. And then they weren't interested and you're like, oh. Yeah. I am a broken soul. Right. Will never recover. And then here you are two weeks later completely recovered and it was fine. Right? But in the moment, you could see nothing else. That's right. Right? Like it clouded everything. The whole world is dreary. The sun no longer shines as bright. Right? It's this whole deal. And like, it it's it's it's perception. It's how you were taking in, and it was never actually true. Right? The sun was indeed shining as bright. Right? The the the tunes you loved a week ago are still the tunes you dig you are going to dig on. It's just you're taking it in differently right now. And like those things didn't actually change. You just took them in differently. And so and and and I think maybe maybe that's the big problem is like when we start putting all stock and faith in,

perceptions that pass. Or can. Or can pass. Yeah. Perceptions that can pass. Right? Like, and and frankly, I I think that everybody probably walks through this in in some certain reality with their with their faith. Right? Like, you're you're like, man, I just I feel so disconnected from God right now, and I feel like I'm I'm far apart and like, that does go away. Right? Like and and you will find yourself next to the Holy Spirit and and and following Jesus and praying and you're like, yes, this is where I always wanted to be, you know, and and and you forgot that that that distance ever felt like it was there and it was never actually there. Right? That distance never actually existed. And so, like, I don't know. It's it was just an interesting conversation. More I think it was more of a a comparison of,

like, I think when we were talking about it, I say, oh, look, I I think that things are worth arguing about because I think there's a right in here, and we can get to it through point and counterpoint. Right? You say this thing, I say this thing, and I go, crap. I was wrong. Okay. We're gonna go with your thing. And I I I I think it's worth arguing about because I think that I'm not right probably 50% of the time, but I don't know unless someone tells me. And so I probably my communication style is way more direct. Like if I think that something's not right, I'll say, hey, man, that's not right. Because I would take that well and other people would not. And then they go, hey, man, you know, don't don't invade what I think is true or don't invade my truth, you know, with your certain because you cannot be certain. I'm like, I don't know. I think I can. Yeah. I think I can. I feel like in the end, it's like opinion and truth are different. Your opinions are based off your perceptions. How I perceive the color is how, in my opinion, this is not green, it's blue. It's but it's not the truth. It's my opinion and there's a difference.

Yeah. I suppose that blurs at the at the stoplight. When when you say officer, the light was green. Yeah. That's true. In my opinion, that light was green. Yeah. We should've we should've reoriented that to it's the one on the bottom. Yes. Or the top. It's the top one. Dan, so like you've done you've done, you know, met with with couples

Yeah. Throughout your ministry. Like, would you say, like, a healthy amount of problems that people have with their marriage are related to kind of misdirected lines of truth and perception and opinion? Yeah. Absolutely.

Differing expectations and then how you interpret if that expectation was met or not. And and, you know, if it's not met, then you're just really an awful person. Right. And and it kinda goes back and forth and you have to kinda go back to couple steps and say, hey, let's just get back to what are your expectations. Maybe you should let them know what that is in the first place. Yeah. And, you know, I want them to talk to me four times a day. Well,

now that they know that, maybe they'll talk to you four times a day. Right. And and yeah. So yeah. Absolutely. Because I I was just thinking that like, I think a lot of where even even from your this is true with all relationships. It shows up in marriages. It can show up in in in in parent child too. Is that like, if someone were to come up to you and say, hey, what you said offended me. Mhmm. And like immediately, you try to defend yourself and said, no, I was not offensive.

The the thing is is that that is a perception question. Mhmm. It's not an objective reality because people can do what they want or take in phrases or words. They can let stuff bounce off or they can soak it in deep. K? They can they can interpret it one way or another. Like, that's a perception problem. And so the the thing you should never do is someone goes, hey, man. I was offended. Your reaction shouldn't be, I didn't say anything offensive. Because they were offended. Let's just start there. Like, whatever you said, their perception was was that it was to be taken with some level of offense. That's the thing you have to deal with. Whether you meant it or not, whether it was objectively harsh, is not relevant.

And a lot of times, I've done this. I've done this in conversations with my wife. I spend a lot of time trying to say, but that's not what I said. What I said was this. And I'm trying to clarify exactly what I said to get it out of the bucket of being objectively harsh. But regardless, my wife's perception was is that it was of some offense. And either she took it in that way and she's having a rough day and things piled up and this just seemed like another round of offense, or I said it in a way that I didn't mean. And so, like, if we can just admit upfront which are the perception issues, and then where are, like, hey, did you did you spend $38,

at the batting cages by yourself in the middle of the day when you were supposed to be working? That's an objective reality. We can check the bank statement. Either you were there or you weren't. And so that we can do. But perceptions are different, and we gotta make sure we don't argue about them in the same way. Yeah. It feels like and sometimes talking to people about, like, miscommunications is or, like, even communication in general is so hard. Like like, if I say, hey. Yeah. I know you reminded me about your about about doing my homework because because you love me and you want me to do my homework. But every time you remind me of my homework, it makes me really angry. And then somebody takes it in as, I don't want you talking to me, and it makes me look like a jerk. And I usually say it in a quite a jerky manner. I suppose maybe as humans, it's just hard for us

we're, like, so self obsessed There we go. That we think, like, our in our to us, our opinions are truth. Yes. Like, we were it was when I was in school, we were writing news articles. And my teacher's like, this is a news article. It needs facts. It needs truth. You can't put your opinion in there. And all the kids really struggle with it because like they'll say, we went to this fair and it was great. You can't say it was great. That's an opinion. And Yeah. Someone else might have thought it was terrible.

And like it was really hard for everyone to notice the difference between opinion and truth. So you can say, we went to the fair and there were clowns. And some people are scared of that and some people are excited about that, but let them determine. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Dan and I were just talking about that on news coverage before the show started. Like just it's very difficult for people well, they're getting slier at it, especially like media stuff. Like, they're getting, where you know you can't just objectively go, hey. I think this group of people are right or wrong or this political aisle is right or wrong. And so you just start to use words that kinda manipulate it just a bit and kind of support the direction that you want, but it still kinda kinda smells like facts, but it's really a fact with like a rodent living on it. Yes. So

like. A what house? A rodent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so, Ella, how do you know if something is a fact or an opinion? Yeah. Versus an opinion. Sneak on up to that microphone there, darling.

Sneak even closer. Okay. You can move your head. You don't always have to move the microphone. Your whole body's movable. Well, I suppose my opinion would be how I just, like, thought about it. Like, how Emma was saying the fair was great, but that's just my opinion. And it might, need somebody else's

that is not correct and just thought it was not not their favorite thing. Oh, hello. Yeah. Okay. So and then a truth is, I mean, like,

this is difficult. Yeah. So the the maybe I can help you. So opinion, like, is is a notion of something where, like, it's okay that people have different different thoughts, and it's alright. It it could be it could be true that people think differently. An objective reality or truth is something of which it's two people shouldn't be able to come to different conclusions. Right? Yeah. Right. There was indeed a fair. Yeah. There yeah. We can all agree a fair did the fair occurred. That is a that is a fact. Now, you know, you will you will end end up with people who wanna say, hey, well That was not affair. Yeah. It wasn't affair. There weren't enough tents to qualify as affair. And like It's a carnival. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a problem though with a lot of this truth stuff is like you can get so bogged down with like semantical issues. Yeah. Where like if you watch like the the debates, like creation debates and stuff like William Lane Craig and those guys. Yeah. And like it's just them going back and forth and eventually it bogs down to a semantical, like, debate.

Yes. Yeah. It's an actually, this is why language is so important because people get tied up arguing over what do what do our words mean. Like, this is a because, like, if you let's say you if you throw out this is where shoot. I'm gonna use the big word. This is where a lot of the discussions that are that are principle to how we think about ourselves and notion of what Christianity is in light of that start to become super nebulous as people will start saying, like, well, what is a dude?

What is a finger? What is a carnival? You know what I'm saying? Like, where where we as a group have decided, okay. When we say carnival, we kinda mean group of tens, bunch of clowns, loud noises, rigged games. K? And then you say, hey, man. We went to the carnival, and some guy's like, yeah. But I'm is it a carnival? Why wasn't it just an old lady's party? An old lady runs this organization. Why can't we just call an old lady party? I'm like, well, we could, but we've all kind of so, like, there there is a notion of, like, playing by the rules of human definition. And when you start moving definitions of things around, the ability to find truth isn't hard it's not harder to know what is true. It is harder to communicate it. Yeah. Because you say I went to the carnival. Some people think, oh, you went to the shoe store.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's like, well, that's called the carnival. And you could mean that. Who calls shoe who who calls the store shoe carnival the carnival? I gotta know. Hip hip people. Yeah. People like that. I don't mean to call you out, Grace, but do you not refer to it as the carnival? No. I refer to it as the shoe store where you go buy shoes. Oh. You can have a rigged tennis shoe game. Just like, throw a ball at the shoe, you win. I did not think they did that. Yeah. They did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did. So it's like, anyway, like, this is where you gotta be super careful on even what we mean, like, where definitions shift. This is why it's such a big deal over like, they've been talking about over the last ten, fifteen years about definitions are are, like, shift. Like, we actually add another way of which like, when I say this word, what I really mean is this. I'm like, well, we have better words for that. Why are you trying to steal this one? It's because if you want someone to believe the thing that you care about, you start moving definitions around. I just sorry. It's such a it's it's the right exit, but, like, the gender stuff has been that. As if you start kinda moving if you move things around a little bit, it it gets you down a path where it's very like, we changed something that was an objective reality to a perception. And both exist,

but, like, you can't act but you shouldn't mix the two. And, like, that's kind of what we've done with that definition where it becomes more difficult to actually have good and real conversations with perceptions and objectives, objective truths. And so, like, that's an example of where, definitions start to move. But, like, where our definitions aren't static, we have a very hard time communicating what is true, and then we can just we can to Nathaniel's point, we burn a bunch of time on semantic arguments. And we don't actually progress on, do I really care what's true? Because the pilot's point pilot, like he's in the room.

He probably doesn't care what's true. Right? He's not open to the reality that Jesus is lord and could otherwise, have his his folks fight him off if he was an earthly king. Like, that truth is of no consequence to him, and so he's not gonna spend any time investing in it. And, like, I think we are in a position where we have this actually goes to conversation Nathaniel and I were having earlier today is around

people's motivation to actually either do things of consequence or in this particular thought process, to know things that are true. Like, does it matter are are we focused to to what Emma was talking about so much on whether what we believe

can be, can be backed up by the notion of truth than actually knowing what is true? Like, as opposed to saying, look, I just wanna know what's real and true. We say, I just want whatever we call truth to affirm what I think, which we've we've talked about is it makes you it's a bad position to be in. Right? Because if everything you think is right, then you're you're practically God, and you're not a good one. And you should know you're not God. And so, like, it can't possibly be that everything you think is right and good, which is what you're advocating for when you're talking about trying to defend yourself as if everything you believe is true. I feel like the we we don't look for truth. We look for things that make us right. And that's kind of, like, if you think about it, when the Declaration of Independence says the pursuit of happiness. It doesn't say the pursuit of truth.

It says the pursuit of what makes me Dang it. Personally happy. We were set up. The country was set up. Dang it. Oh, Thomas. I didn't even think about that. It wouldn't be the first time. Okay. So so I I guess the the question is is, like, how do we get better at this? I got I got, like, six things in my mind, I guess. But but, like, how many

how do we get better at doing this, at in in interacting with this notion of truth in our day to day lives? Stop using adjectives. I can say, this house is big, and someone else is, this house is small. If we just stop using adjectives and we say, this is a house, it doesn't need a house. No more adjectives. Get rid of them all. So and so so let me give you an example. And so you're gonna hire a man to put, put new drywall up in your house. And he says, well, I'll give you a rough estimate. Says, tell me about the house. It's a house. Well, I'm gonna have a hard time giving you an estimate on that one. He says, a big house or a little house? I don't make discriminations like this.

Well, I don't know. Whatever your perception is, dude, come look at us. That's gonna make to day life a lot harder. It well, I guess that's the thing is we're you we're so used to using adjectives to help us kind of know really easy things. Oh, okay. Dog gone it. This this particular conversation for is a reason. That's right. So we can describe things to other people. That's right. And like, think of we talked about this a few shows ago, is that your ability to describe a person without offending someone or some level of sensitivity is getting more difficult. It's a white guy. It's a large it's a tall guy. It's a large fella. It's a it's a strong guy. Are you describing me? You

know? See what I'm talking about? It's just gonna make it hard. I just I just thought of something. Okay. Man, like, even even if we don't use adjectives, now we're now now now we're specifically sound defensive. Hey, man. Do you like the same sandwich I've made? It's an egg sandwich. It's an egg sandwich. That's right. Now it seems like you made a really, really mediocre sandwich. That's right. It's okay. So so I I think we can for humanity to to to move here's the thing. This wouldn't be a problem if we weren't so so much trying to make sure that we sounded right. You wouldn't hammer someone, oh, hey, it's a big house. You might look at it and go, that's not the biggest house I've ever seen, but I hear what you're saying. Like, we wouldn't ring people so much about it. We weren't in the pursuit of our personal happiness. It would be fine. That's right. That's right. You wouldn't hold people as if every word that comes out of their mouth is is court of law, like needs to be evaluated. Can I can I deal with their intent or their perception with grace as opposed to,

focusing so much on, whether it's an objective truth or not? Yeah. It's like when someone says, hey, you gotta meet my dog. She's the sweetest dog in the world. Right? You don't go, this ain't the sweetest dog in the world. Right? You just pet the dog. That's right. And then you go, this will be fine. That's horse crap, Harold. Oh my gosh. You're a liar. You're a fat liar. This dog is the worst. My friend just got this just got this little dog from her grandma and she's like, oh, she's the sweetest dog in the world. And she told me that it is a Chihuahua and Pomeranian mix. Those are two small dogs. Small dogs are known to be like the worst and I hate small dogs. Oh, no. And she's like, this dog is the best. And like, I have to meet this dog. This don't sound right to me. Now Dan has a tiny dog. Dan, would you feel like your dog is pretty sweet? Oh, yeah. My dog's the best. Dan has the best dog. The best? I mean, there has to be a fisticuffs between people who have actually, how many dads are walking around with the world's greatest dad cub? That's a fight when ready to happen. Everybody can't be the world's greatest. No. But Mike has a shirt. Yeah. I got mine from the Goodwill. That means that a guy who used to be the world's greatest dad gave it away. You're not the greatest dad, sir. I inherited it from my kids at a cheaper price. He's passing down the totem.

That seems about right. You gotta use world's greatest debt shirts. Well, it was from Goodwill. So I'm in. You're helping with jobs, Mike. So and so I I actually, I think I wonder wonder if Emma's Emma's underlying thing is probably the the first and core realization is that if you weren't so focused on your opinion, preference,

or belief being affirmed at every moment, you probably would keep yourselves out of a lot of very varying arguments that you don't need to be in the middle of. Well, sometimes though, you don't even you don't have like an opinion on it. Like, let's say, for instance, I'm I'm mister dumb maintenance man at a factory. Yeah. And I'm I keep blowing up my my generator.

And so I call mister SmartMike, who's a generator man, I say, hey, I keep blowing this up. And he throws an amp clamp on there. He says, well, you're drawing too many amps. And I say, well, the manufacturer says that I'm not. Yeah. Then so who's right? Mister Smart Mike, who's got numbers on a on a machine Yeah. Or the manufacturer who says this is what's right. So, like, I don't have a a dog in the game, but somebody's right. But isn't the objective objective reality it can be proven that Mike is correct?

I suppose. Like, the other is the man's opinion. Mike, like, whether he may have even intended that to be the limit. But in practice, it is performing this way unless we go, well, how do I trust the amp clamp? How do I trust the the diodes that otherwise show the screen? How do I know the screen manufacturer isn't some kind of Korean implement who's trying to deceive everyone? Google. It might not even be the the maintenance guy's opinion, but it's someone else's opinion that he is backing up. And if he's only backing it up either if he believes it's true or he doesn't want to ignore it because then he'll get in trouble. Yeah. So so that's a great example because it this happens to me all the time. They say the manufacturer says it should do this. And I go, you wouldn't be calling me if there wasn't a problem. And I'm telling you that you're really close to

where it's not gonna work anymore. But I should be able to do this to it. I hear what you're saying, but that's not how it's working. Right. That's not currently the truth. The truth is it's not working. And so what you believe should be the truth, it's not working out. Right? And like go ahead, Leila. But the other person thinks that it's your opinion. You know, they don't know that it's truth. They just they're they just think, well, that guy's got bad opinion. That's not a good idea. You know? This is where critical thinking starts to show up. Right? As you start to look at at at at, like, what what output is and what what things are actually happening. Right? Is the truth of the matter is the manufacturer says you should be able to run a 100 amps on this generator. I see that you're running 90, and I'm like, look, man. The windings are getting hot. The breaker is tripping. I'm telling you, you gotta back this down or we gotta figure out some way to cool it down. It's not doing what it's supposed to be doing. And they'll say, but I wanna run it at a 100 amps and the manufacturer says I can. I say, I hear what you're saying, but let's look at what's actually happening. Let's look at the objectionable truth. Right? Yeah. And so, like, that that goes to all the other conversations we've been having, and especially when I start talking about Jesus. Right? Like, I can point to, a lot of things where I can say, look, I can tell you I tell you this to my youth group all the time. I would not be telling you this if I haven't seen this bear out over the last forty years of my life. If I haven't seen it be consistently true, God be consistently faithful,

and I can point to a God that I've watched changed lives that I thought were unchangeable. Right? And so like, I think where where opinion starts to starts to butt up against things, is when you start going, but let's look at the reality of what's happening based on what the perception that you're talking about. Because what I see is a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression and a lot of worry Mhmm. And a lot of questioning. And I wanted to fight and battle every single thing. Right? Like I walk into a room and they're like, okay,

girls over here and guys over here and I go, where's the Christian dudes who are just under 40 section? This isn't tuned to me. Mhmm. Right? Like, that's ridiculous. That is the personal pursuit of happiness. And it's and and we're almost to that level where people feel so ingratiated in their own who they are, and they're like, the whole world is not tipping to my direction right now and tuning everything they say to how I would want to hear it. And so I'm gonna be upset about it. That makes for a really angry life. Right? I think it's just because humans in general are just are just selfish. Like,

we're we are all just so self centered that like, back to the generator example, that guy, he's like, well, he's got some pretty good examples. But I don't wanna be wrong. So I'm just like So burn that generator. Yeah. Put it at a hundo. But like, even if you think about it, like the more society does this by saying like, I am right. You're making people have an opinion. Even if the maintenance guy didn't know or care really whether it had this whether it could hold the amount of amps or it couldn't, he had on the spot had to decide which was his opinion and then he had to defend it instantly.

And then he gets backed up, and then he's then he's trying to pull together his entire claim to back up his idea because, like, it's getting attacked even if he didn't have the opinion. When all when all the evidence points to it's not working. Well, that's the evidence. It's not working. Right. And and to to Emma's point is like, for some reason, we have this notion that, like, one, we have to speak to something. Like, we have to have a thought on it. And then as soon as we have a thought on it, we have to defend it. If we were just more open minded about the thing and would go, you know what? I just want it to work how it's supposed to or I want it this is my outcome. I wanna leave the thing on. And so do I need a bigger thing? Maybe I need a bigger, a bigger box or I need a bigger wire. Right? Like, I just want it to be right. I'll get that box ordered, sir. It'll be $3,000. It seems large. It just is.

I find a manufacturer hard to trust. I find them so I have this problem with dentists because like hold on. Let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. The more the more my teeth are damaged, the more I come to them and the more money that they make. So who so what's stopping her from saying, hey. Are you aren't from from, like what's stopping them from giving me wrong information so that they make more money except for their own morals? What what if they're trying to scam me to get more money out of my nasty Right. The fact that they give out lollipops at the end of your dentist visit? Like, clean your teeth, they look nice, and they go, here you go, child of sugar. Drivers. Truth of the day. Grace trusts no one. Yeah. Actually,

and a lot of the toothpaste they give you got the sugar in it. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. They said, like, teeth with sugar paste. Yeah. Actually, those It's those little things they give out. I forgot what they're called again. I mean, nastofluoride tooth. Tooth suckers? Yeah. They're actually sugar free. Yeah. Those are gross. That's why nobody eats them. Yeah. And then stops immediately at the gas station. And either gets a soda, sucker, or ice cream, like, job at the dentist. Are you shaming, mama? Yeah. Shame. Listen, I got soda because she wanted to embarrass me because I might because my mouth was numb. And I would but I and I would look really dumb. But I got past it and proved her wrong because I actually drank the soda no matter how weird it felt in my mouth.

So anyway, it's it's I think it's a really interesting conversation. I think what would happen is if at the end of the day, I think if we sat down and thought about it, there's a correct way to to look at how things are oriented. And and really, it goes back to what Jesus said. You can tell you you can tell if something's working by its fruit. Right? You can tell a tree by its fruit. Is this actually working or not? Right? Or is this actually producing the outcome that we thought it would? Is it actually helping me to try to take either the way that that people are defining things or the way that people are looking at things and turn it on its head? And like, I think you you find this true with so many people where they're like, this is the thing. This is how I feel. This I'm gonna orient my whole life around this. And then if you were to actually ask them and they were being honest, you're like, are you happier now? No. I feel the same. Actually, it it it didn't do what I thought it was gonna do. And if we could deal in truth like that, I I I feel like we'd be way better ahead, but we are so we're so consumed with pride and being like, hey, I already took a stance

and this is gonna be it. Right? I I so I mean, flat out honesty, if if the work of Jesus Christ had not panned out over my lifetime, I'd have bailed already. Like, honestly, like if if if if following Jesus for all the things that he asked and for the countercultural living that he asked out of us, if it had not produced fruit in my life, I would have said, this doesn't work. I'm not going to keep doing it. Right? But I got nothing but but but faithfulness behind me that goes, when I follow Jesus like I intend, it works and it goes and it's it's fantastic. And it's full of joy and grace and forgiveness and love and I it's the best. Like and and that's the thing, especially when we're talking about Jesus stuff. The one thing that Christianity doesn't invite you to is to be make more of yourself.

Right? Like, I must decrease. That's right. The whole Bible is full of I must decrease, and God says the top two commandments are you love me, you love other people. You're not even in there. You're you as a person are not in the top two of the things you're supposed to be concerning yourself with. And so, like, sometimes Christianity will get the same the the same accusation that says, hey, you just want me to become a Christian so I'm part of your group. Ah, why? It doesn't gain me anything. Right? Like, if you decide to follow Jesus, it I I don't I make more money. I'm not more happy. It doesn't do anything for me. It's all for you. It's all for you and to God's glory. I only want you to do this because I want what's best for you, you know? And so, like, as you look at some of the options out there of the things that people are pointing other people to, I'm like, honestly, this following Jesus thing, I don't gain nothing. It's not a pyramid scheme. Like, I don't get more money in heaven or a cooler chair. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's none of those things. It's mere it's it's completely for your benefit and your benefit only, you know, that you get to know your creator. And so I I think once again, truth can be kind of leveled out if you look at fruits, if you look at what it's outputting. Right? If you look at to see what happens when you actually do it opposed to what your perception is or what you thought it was going to do. Yeah. Humility begets truth. Yes. When you can when you can divest yourself of your own prerogatives, you are going to become closer and closer to true things.

And frankly, you will end up in far fewer arguments and far and you can actually help people understand when they are when they are having a perception argument

when they that they think is an objective reality argument. And questions questions do that. Asking questions tends to help narrow things down. Okay. Like, if you're asking how does it like, how do you feel type of questions, you have a perception issue. If you have a, hey, is is or is not the why the thing overheating. Well, it is. Okay. Should it be doing that if if the reality was that this could handle up to this place? No, it shouldn't. Okay. Well, then we have a problem. Like helping people get to that place. If if asking questions is is one of the problems, I feel like asking questions is like the main point of dear life from the path.

I feel like that's that's that's kind of a problem. It's it's it's it's us giving our opinions on these people's problems. No. No. I know. I Actually, I was trying to make the opposite point. I think I think questions are valuable. I think the questions is what helps figure out, one, whether you're talking about objective realities or perceptions. And two, if you're trying to get someone into an objective reality that they're just they lack context for they or they are missing, then asking questions that slowly kind of chip away at, where that where that might have be missing for them, I think is actually helpful if you can do it in a kind way. If you knew it a humble way, that isn't about you proving them wrong. Yeah. It's about helping them to see things. So and I've seen that way more often. Right? Like, this is classic when you see people arguing. I've I've watched a pretty go get them Christian dude arguing with a guy that didn't believe in Jesus. And like,

if he had come from the base opinion that he just wanted somebody to know go to know Jesus, that conversation would have gone way different. But he just wanted to win the argument, and he lost handily. Because even if you beat the guy, he ain't gonna follow Jesus because you're a jerk. That's right. Right? And so you didn't prove anything. You just proved that you were a jerk. That's right. You and and you gave him the perception that God's a jerk. So either you left that guy with the reality that says either God isn't real or God's a jerk. Either way, he's not changing his opinion. That's right. And that's not how we argue. Because here's the thing, it's like especially that conversation, it's not an argument. I don't I don't wanna win. I just want you to know Jesus. I don't care how much I lose. Right? That's the way Paul the apostle Paul lived his whole life. He lost everything. He didn't care. He took he took a million beatings. The guy was near death like five times. He was homeless most of his life. He was in prison. And he didn't care how much he lost. He just wanted people to know Jesus. Here's the deal. You wanna think here's you you wanna the the name of the Bible is superhero. K? If you if if if if if you were a superhero of the scriptures, your name would be Apocalypse. Your job you are the revealer.

Your job is a is a revelation. It's to otherwise not not whip someone up with truth. It's to continue to have your life and your words reveal the realities of God to the world around you. Like, that's that's a cool superpower. I feel like so, like, in America, everyone's like, freedom, history. We look through history and it's like, I love America and all the history books because of how much freedom everybody gets. But in the end,

America, like, is really good in some ways for churches because they have so many opportunities, so much money, so much way to bring people to Jesus, so much opportunities. But in the end, I think America is probably harder for people to like look for truth because it's built. The entire

like building block of America is I want freedom to do what I want and freedom to find my happiness Yes. In the way I want. Even if it will ruin you. Right? Yeah. That's that's true. If if if if it is a societal value

to to be a free thinker, has do you run the risk of like yeah. Either you use your free thinking to come to an objective reality or you use your free thinking to otherwise be able to stand on your non objective or on your perception, but the society permits that. In fact, encourages it. Yeah. What is it what was the way it was put is, like, America gives you the option to pick your own pharaoh. Right? Like, whatever you're gonna be a slave to, you get to choose it. Right? Instead of it being opposed imposed on you. That's right. You got to choose what was gonna enslave you. And and it's it's is that really freedom? Right? Either way, you ended up under a pharaoh. I mean, like like, to to Emma's point,

like, in America, we have freedom to choose, like, oh, we're gonna go to church. Oh, we're not gonna go to church. But and, like, and, like, I can't I can't I don't know. I might I might not be getting the point, but, if you mandated some people to go to church, people would hate it. That's Like, you know, you're mandated to go to That's also true. You're mandated to go to school and people, like, people hate school. No. That's true. And and and, I mean, if I can look back at Genesis and go, God absolutely knew that. That's why we have free will. That's why we have choice. Right? Because you can't have love without choice. And so that is that is also true. But I I think when you what would be the comparison? Right? Like, some places in the world where Christianity is flourishing like, in China and in The Middle East, Like, they live under an oppressive government, and they put their hope in in Christ, and then that's that's how they live their life. Here's the way to think about it. It's that everyone everyone actually has freedom. The question is is what the consequences are to you exercising it.

Like, there are not consequences significantly in The United States for you exercising your freedom to say I love and follow Jesus. To do that same thing in Iran or in China, exercising your human freedom to be able to do that will have earthly consequences that are often harsh and often physical or or emotionally, and they're painful. And so like everyone has everyone has the free the the free will. The question is what is the consequence of it? The risk from an American perspective is that

because one of our societal values is free thought, is that it does con it does put you in some in some ways in a conflict with a constraint of thought of Jesus' perspective. Like, you have the freedom to either to align with with God's view of the world, the creator's view of the world. You also have a lot of freedom to not do that. Ultimately, everyone in the world has that freedom. In America, because we celebrate as a societal value, the question is is do we dig in a little bit further on picking our own pharaoh as opposed to aligning with God's view of the world? A lot of faith in other places is a little bit simpler than that. They just pre agree that God's view is the best.

Now I'd again, I I I think I would be hard pressed to make an argument that, hey, well, if we could restrict and make a state religion, we'll be in better shape. I think to Grace's point, I think that's not true. Because, like, you still need people to to be able to exercise a legitimate faith in in Jesus. I think the question, and I'm not sure I have enough to speak on it, is is there something about

the notion of of of independent thought that we value as a society create in some sense a stubbornness to a seed to God's thought? Yeah. It's because you think you can make your own hope. Right? Like, so if the government, if if I can't, we can I can say bad things about the government all I want? It's not a crime here. Right? If you did that in Turkey, they they'd behead you. Right? You can't just walk out and say the king of Turkey is a big loser. I'm gonna overthrow him. I hate him. Right? They'd arrest you and they'd never see you again. I can say, the current president is worthless,

and I don't like his hair, and I wish we'd elected a dog's left foot. Right? And they don't care. Right? I can say it all I want. In fact, it's half of our news organizations saying that opinion about whoever all day long. We like to see it because it actually shows the the the value that we have. Right. It shows that we have the freedom to say Right? And so with all that freedom, I start to think to myself, you know what? Maybe I don't need all the freedom that Jesus is is is saying that he will provide. My opinion well, actually, because it affirms that your opinion is is justified. That's right. Because because it's a societal value. Again, I don't know that I'd want a society where that wasn't true, but we do need to recognize I think there's a risk to it. Dan, were you gonna say something? No. Okay. Sorry. I thought I thought I saw you moving up. Go, Chris. So do you think that maybe it's the restricted freedom in countries like China and Turkey that that is why Jesus is flourishing?

Because because Jesus would mean freedom for those for those folks or, you know, heavenly freedom. You think that's one of the reasons it's flourishing real well? I think that it's it is because, because I think it is because

there's their pharaoh is truth in places where they know what's not true. But like to us, our our pharaoh would be happiness. We are willingly

looking for our happiness and, like that is what we are being a slave to. In places where it's flourishing, it's because they're a slave to truth. They want to know what the truth is and the truth is God, so they'll find it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and actually, think that's, Grace, I think that combines with your point in that when you when you see human behavior at their worst, you just can't accept.

Like, you you have you have a thirst for a reality of which there is something higher and better and just. And and and so and you will go looking for it and you will find that. Whereas and this isn't so much on the freedom of thought train, but it's just in general, we're a wealthy country just like Western Europe. Western Europe is is ten years ahead of us and kicking god out of a lot of different things. And because when you when you're surrounded by getting your physical needs met, you you you don't often go looking for a better alternative because you like the one you have. Because it serves you very well. I got this covered. I don't need I I guess I don't need a god. I can I can eat? I'm fairly safe. I can say whatever I want.

Why would I need a god for any of this? I've got this handy. Yeah. Right? Which I mean, it's not like I don't understand the miss the misunderstanding there. You're like, I mean, one is is God's not only promising earthly things. Right? In fact, mostly he's not. Except for except for peace, love, joy, patience. Well, like, I don't have to look out and go, God, I need you to send the reins. I'll go, no worries. I'll turn on the pump. Yeah. I don't need you. You know what I'm saying? Like and again, I I wouldn't want a society where where I didn't have the ability to think and act that way.

But the question is is what are we gonna do with our freedom? Like, it's a it becomes a blindness. Like, a lot of things aren't implicitly good or bad. It's just, like, you gotta recognize that with the good comes a risk. And, like, with the the being able to have the freedom to say, support yourself, live in some means comfortably, you come with the risk of becoming your own god, of being someone like, if you can go multiple days and say, I didn't feel like I needed god today,

which I think we have a risk of. Like, I could go multiple days and I could buy like, I've got money to buy my own food. And I'm so I've even separated from my food to the extent I don't have to harvest it. Like, if I had to go outside and dig it up in the dirt, I get reminded that, like, I put a small seed in the ground and whatever came up, that miracles happened. And something that was large and able to sustain my body came from a ground that I did not put there and rains that I did not cause the fall and sun that shows up whether I wanted to or not. Like, the world seems bigger to me. Separate myself from that, when my wealth, when my society allows me to separate myself from that, I get under the false impression that I own my world and that I am in control of it. I mean, let me ask you. Who made that world? You'd say you'd say, God made that world. That's right. That's right. I would say that, but, like, that's kind of the point though, is that, like, I don't if think of my day so my day today, I woke up in a bed that was made by a man. Right? I walked through my cooled house of which I paid for. I got in a truck that some dude built on the assembly on in Dearborn.

If I was out harvesting my grain, I get I I'm closer to I or I'm more likely to be reminded of who God is and that he is bigger than me and that I don't actually control or run my own life to the extent I do. And so you you're right. Well, the point you're making is absolutely right. It's just that, like, part of the risk that comes with comfort and wealth and control over our own lives is that we can start to miss out on things that others remind us of the true perspective, the objective reality of God and think stuff. The mindset should be, well, okay. This this this water pump was made by some guy in a factory. Who made sure that that guy in the factory was born to be that guy in the factory?

God did. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm just like, most people don't put that much thought into the stuff. And so I think we we you can live a life where you don't aren't constantly being reminded of god. Like, my wife won't miss that because she gets up in the morning and stares at the sun like a maniac. Like, she leaves the house at 06:30 and sits on the porch and listens to the birds. Like, she's real close to this type of thing. I could get up and not leave my house unless I was walking out to the truck and drove some other other place and, like, have no intentional perception of the world around me. And it gives me the false impression that I control my life. So, Grace, you're absolutely right. I think the risk again, it's it's a it's the risk that we run of being too far separated from things that remind us of who God is. Mhmm. And

just like just one more point that I wanna make. Sorry. I'm I'm talking a lot. But so the the Loki show on Disney plus, it's all about it's all about this big organization, what's called a TV area or whatever, and they run all under these timekeeper folks. And these timekeeper people control everything that happens in the universe. They know everybody's fate. They know everything that happens to everybody.

And they are right, but then it turns out that they that they are fake. So, I mean, I took it as took it as this is people taking what taking what God did saying, we did this, but then, you know, it's all fake because Yeah. It's less than. Yeah. Right? Like, it's the big alligator. It's the big alligator mouth. It's like and it's the Tower Of Babel. Right? Like, that's the thing. It's like it's it's that story is great because it's when humanity decided, you know what? We've finally done it. We can take God's place. And like every everybody's guilty of this even on an individual level. Hopefully, not on the daily, but certainly the weekly, where you're like, I will take God's place in this area. I think I can handle this. And the truth is God will let you. That's that's the part that stinks is God goes, I wish you wouldn't,

but I I I will let you if that's what you want to do. Right? And like, it it it it's only till time has passed that you go, dang it. I took God's throne on this deal and it was a mistake. It was a mistake because the fruit of the tree is whatever fruit of the tree that I designed can only produce Mike sized fruit. Like Job. Like Job. In what way? Like okay. You know,

know, at of the the book when Jesus when Jesus says, hey, hey, I run this world. Hey, Job, you wanna take the wheel for a bit? Yeah. When God shows up and says, okay, listen, here's the deal. Here. You wanna take the wheel onto Job for bit? My favorite part of Job. You pull up your pants, we're gonna talk. So God kinda told me, like, it was super super duper smallest thing ever,

but, like, kind of that it wasn't in my control, like, just last Sunday. Yeah. Yesterday. I was looking for my watch. I got an Epic watch. I loved my watch, and then I lost it. And it was lost for months on end. And then Sunday morning,

I go, this is super silly, but God, I would really like to find my watch. I love that watch so much. And I got to church that day, and my cousin Grace has that watch because she had found it. And she goes, I found your watch. Oh. And it was amazing. I hear I love those moments. Actually, said, I like hey. He wanna see my cool new watch? And I showed her her own watch. I I love that story because it's it's a part of following Jesus that is largely missed. Is the is we're always like, God, will you heal cancer out of these people? God, will you stop the tsunami or whatever? And like, God is down to the I count your hair level and goes, I love you, Emma. Get I you that watch. I get that watch for you. I mean, I get you the watch. I knew very well it all about. We we legit found that watch because we were cleaning the house because church was gonna be at our house the next day. That's why we found the watch. Right? It was it was soaked in Jesus everywhere. Okay. Ella found the watch. I found the watch. Ella found the Through the power of the holy spirit. No. No. I was just cleaning up the purple room. I presented the watch. I was being an obedient child cleaning up the purple room. Listen to this now.

And I found the watch and I go, hey. Look at this sweet new watch. What's that? Oh, it's probably nothing. And then I go downstairs and mom goes, oh, hey. That's a Beatles watch. I go, oh, I don't want it anymore. Yeah. So Ella found a watch. Okay. Okay. So Like, I've been looking for that watch for a long time. I've just been at Grace's house, and we looked in the couch, and I hadn't seen any watch. Boy, there's everything in that couch too. Was a table. And then and then

she had found it, and I got it. That's yeah. That's yep. I I I think overall, if we can tie in truth and we can tie in truth about God is I think it really comes down to what fruits are coming out of it. Right? Like, I I think there are perceptive truths and I don't think we fight those with a bat. Right? We we fight those it's not even a fight. Right? Like we we ask questions, we have a discussion based on perception and a goal. I see that we're looking at it this way. Does this still hold up if we turn it 15 degrees? Right? If we move two steps over, does this still hold? You know, I I think those are good questions, and I think they're worth having. And and frankly, you folks on the Jesus side, we can tone down getting our ankles up. Right? Getting getting super fired up, as fast. Right? There's nothing actually threatening your lord here. Right? There are there are things that are threatening your

the people that you would like to reach for Jesus. But once once again, you have better make sure you're fighting on the side of I just want you to know Jesus, not I just wanna be right. Right. Your your job is to help. Actually, if you wanna frame it real simply, your job is to help other people be right. Really really right. Not affirm their wrongness, but like, if there's a right, if there's an objective truth, your job is to help them get to it. Correct. Not to be personally right. Leila, were you gonna say something? Well, like, back to the watch point, I feel like that is just a moment when God is saying, I am here. I am listening to you. Like, just like a reminder, you know. Like, I like, even if even if you asked me for something in the past and I didn't answer right away,

I am here. I will always be here, you know. Like, just like a reminder. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Hey. You've been listening to Live From The Path. That was a long discussion of truth. Hold it. That's we're not gonna be able to cut that up for the YouTube. But here's the deal. I don't maintenance the website anyway. And so that was never gonna do that. So if you're here's the thing. That's what I I was there's I've been reading a bunch of articles on how kinda how to improve your podcast and get a bunch of numbers and and get people to love it. And all of them have the same set of things that I'm just probably not going to do. No one wants to listen to like a long form, like an hour, hour and a half run on podcast on random topics of the day. Though they're a dime a dozen, and people want short bits. We just don't I just don't function that way. I don't have time to cut that stuff up. And I feel like the show is actually better digested through the whole thing, and I don't care if you pop in and out, but just I'm just not likely to get around to, like, monopolizing this thing so we can make $2.85

a week on it. So I appreciate you hanging out that long conversation. I don't care if you skip. That's alright with me. But if you, are offended by things that Grace has said, you wanna call the complaint line. (515) 517-0085. I'll make my apologies now. (515) 517-0085. That's a Life From The Path. Bob Eisenhower complaint line. And you can let us know. Here's the deal. I don't know if I want you calling here opining on what is truth.

I just we don't I won't listen to that whole thing, whatever you gotta say. You don't have to do an email. But, know, if there's anything about the about the conversation that stuck with you, things that we got wrong, We're we're willing to be be wrong when it comes to a preference item, and we'd love to hear from you or just a feedback on the show in general. Alright. Sorry. I offended you with my opinions. Yeah. Yeah. We were gonna talk about something else. What was it? Perhaps we should talk about your use of the word Henkels. Got it. Yeah, Mike. Yeah. So really quick. Really quick, Ben. You find how to boost up your podcast on a podcast?

There were a bunch of people who claimed to that. But then I looked at them, and they did not have they weren't well reviewed. And so I said, well, this is an ironic fact. I feel like you got your ankles up about this thing. What is I'm sorry. Do we not understand the definition of the word hankles? What is it? What's a hankle? It's an angry Hackles? Why is it why is it why why is it got the h in front of it? Yeah. Okay. Here's the thing. Is it an ankle? Like a weird, like, offspin of shackles? No. I think Okay. Yeah. Hackles. I think I may have combined hackles and ankles. I think you mean hackles because, you know, like, when you're talking about a dog, like, hackles are raised, you know, like, they're angry or something. Yeah. Well, we don't have hackles. We have ankles. Well, you don't need to say.

You don't Well, you don't raise your ankles when you're mad. Don't understand what a hackle is. It sounds like something like like on Halloween, a hackling. Perception is that a hackle. Holy shit. Hackle. Okay. The way it's hackle, isn't it? Okay. You ready? Let's let's do it. Let's we know true things. Let's let's do the advice on this thing. K. Dear life from the path. Before

my husband and I married, we were regaled with stories about the antiques that would come to him because he is the eldest son. We spent many long weekends across the country taking care of the in laws, quotes, honey do list, and my mother-in-law often told us this and that item would be ours someday. Well, guess what? Oh, no. They turned around and gave every single one to my brother-in-law. Oh. Yes. I realize it's their privilege to dispose of their property as they wish, but how do we reconcile feeling used? Am I out of bounds because I expected their promise to be honored and remembered? I no longer care to be around them or hear their empty promises. I feel they defrauded my husband by promising tens of thousands of dollars worth of silver and furniture and then handed it all to his brother. Any advice? I would say

you probably overreacted a bit. Mean Oh. Oh. Are talking to life, Empath, if you don't overreact. Yes. So overreacted how, Leila? Okay. Read that part. Read that last part again. She doesn't wanna be around them because they've been defrauded. I feel they defrauded my husband by promising tens of thousands tens of thousands of dollars. These are nuts. Multiple 10 thousands. I know. 30,000 I know. I feel like I would kinda be like Worth of silver furniture. Oh, come on. Like, how could you do that? Like, you know, like, kinda angry that they didn't give it to my husband. But, I mean, never wanted to, like, be around him or anything. I feel like that's little Let's two separate things. Right?

Some critical thinking here. One, they were overdoing work for their in laws. Were they doing the work just so they could get the goods at the end? I don't think so. I think they were just there helping out. Because I remember it said, like, they spent, like, months, I think. Long weekends. Yes. Yep. There we go. Of them, like, just helping their parents out. And, like, each time she

You can just move your head there, darling. You don't have to move to Mike all the time. Move your face into it. So so, like, long weekends of doing that, but each time I don't know if it said each time, but maybe, like but they promised that all this stuff, most of this stuff goes to you. But then they turn around they have their arms full of stuff, turn around, give a bunch of it to their brother, and probably just give them like, oh, here's this little twindly thing. Okay. So here's here's the here's the two things. One, they were over there doing work for the in laws. Were they doing it because they thought they were gonna receive the goods?

And two, apparently, the mother-in-law just happened to say, yes, you're definitely gonna have these things. All these things are gonna go to you. And then she lied. She turned around and gave it to the brother. Those seem like two different items to me. I feel like like lying about it is really really disappointing

to whoever got lied to, you know? Yep. Like they're probably just like That's just. So are are they still alive? It appears that That sounds what I was thinking. Picking stuff. How long do they have if they're giving away their stuff? Because it might not be a issue for very much longer. There's there's so many yeah. There's issues here. I mean, maybe there's dementia. Maybe they forgot. Honestly. You know, they should write this stuff down. I mean, they did say in laws. So

people who forget. That did not if you I'm so sorry. That was mean to anybody if that was mean to anybody in this room or has who is listening, I am very incredibly sorry. It's not that it was mean. It just went wrong. Like

Mimi and Papa are is my father-in-law and my mother-in-law. Yeah. Why does that mean that they forget things? They've forgotten a couple things. And law does not equal old. Okay. So you relative by marriage. Just in your sand, miss Marcy. I just got one thing I'm kind of wondering about.

Like, why would you purposely go through and show them all your stuff? Like, we were just reading about this in whichever book we're in. This king Daniel. Daniel, he king brings in all the other people's guys and he's like, look at all my riches. It's like seems like this lady's doing that. And I'm not quite sure why unless,

like, if she was not quite sure she was giving it to them. Well, it sounds like she was so I think that Dan makes a real good point that like, maybe they intended to. And then, like, either this person who wrote it is leaving off some sort of major event that would've that would explain the the shift. The why the pie is on the other all their windows or something in the other Right? Yeah. Or or or she or the minds aren't right. Like like, you really think that they scam them out of a few Other fans, I would see that. Yeah. I I mean, it it could be you have to be really careful what you say, especially to family or to friends, whatever. I mean, maybe the parents were just like, man, we wanna give this to you. And they didn't really mean it. They were just like trying to be nice. We really appreciate. We're glad you're here. You're helping us. We're gonna give this to you someday.

Junior said, man, I'm gonna get this. This is awesome. So they wrote it down as a fact. And and they said it. They did. They shouldn't have said it, but they did it. Parents said it, but they didn't mean it. It could be that too. And then then all of sudden, they're like, well, I'm not gonna get rid of this. Give it to junior too. I mean Right. They they're not probably trying to be mean. They're just weren't thinking. Maybe junior two is actually down on his luck and struggling. Maybe. And junior one and his wife are doing just fine. Yeah. And so, like, what was supposed to be a gift to to remember them and, like, these were my in laws, they're actually giving it to junior two because he ain't got no place to live or he's struggling. Right? There could I mean, there could be altruistic reasons why this went down the way it did. You can stack these couches and make a house out of them junior too. It's okay. You'll be safe. Yeah. So so so I think let's where where you separated it, Mike, let's deal with it. So for one, it doesn't sound like you were doing it only to try to to get the stuff. And so to the extent that you were doing it because it was kind,

then you do need to be satisfied with that. Like, if if you weren't doing it, if she didn't say, I'll give you this if you come over here, but you were gonna help out anyway, then you got everything that you actually bargained for. You're not out anything except for some dis I think the latest point to some disappointment, which I think is justified. It's alright to feel disappointed certainly. But like That's your truth. That's right. That's right. You you take one step back and say, I helped because I wanted to, not for those things. And so was I able to help? Yes, I was. Am I missing anything that I otherwise was trading for? No, I wasn't. And so, like, just reassess with one step back and just know that you got everything you had intended.

There wasn't a bonus. You didn't get to you didn't get to Christmas slide. And, you know, I I that's too bad. But I think if you separate the two, you'll feel like you're like, you shouldn't be parting company in this relationship because you didn't get the bonus. Like, that's wrong. You're thinking about it wrong. Now I think these are some awkward conversations because they're like or easily answerable.

Like, either way, they should be able to say, oh, you know, I didn't you know, we didn't even realize that we had said that to you. We I apologize for the We tell that to everybody. Yeah. We say that all the time. Everyone that comes in and and cleans the floor, we promise them silver. I had real I I had real plans for that silver. Like, You're gonna hold a tea party? I mean, what are you gonna do with the silver? Who are these people? Like, the Crawleys from Downton Abbey? They have tens of thousands of dollars in silver? Yeah. It's the Crawley's. What if the but what if the in laws like, they said they spent like long weekends doing like yard work and stuff. Yep. What if like the what if one of the in laws had like this beautiful plant, but they ran it over with a wheelbarrow? Pick it up, please. I

you think that was the offense that Oh. Took it off the list? Oh, I get it. You go down my hostel. How dare you? Yeah. No one's ever I was thinking of a hosta. You hit my hosta? But hosta la vista to the silver. Anyway, what I'm just saying is like, what if I mean, I know they already have children, but none that live at their house, they could've just invited Junior two to live a tough old bird then. Like, if you accidentally run over the hosta in service of trying to mow the lawn for them, and they're like, that's it? No silver for you. No. No. That's pretty rough. There were some volunteer kids came to my grandma's house, and they accidentally cut down a bush she really likes, and she talks about it every time we're there. They were volunteering and cleaning up her yard, and it really bothers her that they cut down this one bush. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. It's an elderly person thing. You cut down my bush,

nudge you. See? Yeah. See, it's Grace Foost and Mike Foost who do this. What? You talk about elderly people like this. Old people smell. Well Grace Foost. Okay.

Okay. If there were if we were ever on the rails, we're off. We just lost the scenery, Joe. Well, I think, like Round us out with brilliance, Leila. This is the last comment before we hear what secular says. Sorry. When we're talking about, like

so like the yard example, like, they're I bet they're probably going there. They're like, yeah, we should be nice. I mean, they're our in laws. We should be nice to them. You know, we should go help out. They're asking us to. But then in the middle of it, they're probably like, hey. You know, if we help out some more, maybe they'll just give us extra, like, more of that stuff. Maybe their motivation changed from being generous to being sneaky. Yes. Like, since I helped them, maybe I'll help them some more, and then they'll give me more of what I asked for. That often happens, I get. You go into it with all like, with altruistic contents. And then, like, once you help out a few times, now you start feeling owed. Yeah. So I did this. Ben and I did this to my uncle when we were, like, 10. Mhmm. We went over to his house and we mowed his lawn because we were bored. And then halfway through, we're like, maybe he'll pay us to mow this lawn. And then we get the lawn mowed and we're like, hey, we mowed your lawn. He's like, thanks fellas. And we're like, we did it for free.

He's like, I know. He goes, I mean, it was probably I mean, it probably usually costs you some money to get a lawn mowed, doesn't it? You know, he's like, no. I usually mow it myself. Yeah. But you didn't have to mow it. Right? Like, we're like, hey. We should just mow the lawn to be nice. And then halfway through, it became a money making scheme. And then we really poured it on thick afterwards, and my uncle saw right through it. Didn't give us the time. Wait. He wouldn't have none of it. Wait. This was you and Ben? Yes. That's good. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, people people people get sucked into this. I just Even the best of us. Hey. My my yard could be mowed right now. Even the best of us. Even the best of us gets sucked in. Yeah. I'm doing it. This reminds me something. So so I watched I watched this one this one YouTube channel. It's about this dude who plays in a Minecraft server or whatever, and his his Minecraft shop was failing. So he just went to people's houses, built whatever he was built whatever he was selling at their houses, and then charged them for it.

And so so they came so he came to their houses, did something they had no idea, and said, you can drop off your payment at the store anytime. Oh, yeah. That's a common scam when you're traveling overseas. Like, if you go to tourist attractions and stuff, there'll be guys there that are trying to to, like, wrap a homemade wristband or something around your around your wrist. Like, they're gonna give it to you for free. And soon as it's on you, then we go, you owe me $15. Yeah. And that because you already have the goods. And now you're gonna have a hard time talking your way out of it because the police is gonna go, hey, man. You got the you got the wristband on. $15? They wanna make big money at the Louvre. Alright, Mike. What's secular say? Okay. Here we go. Secular says, ask your in laws politely why they promised the heirlooms to you and your husband and then gave them to his brother. If they plan to follow through, it should have been put in writing in case something unexpected happens.

Unless there's something you didn't include in your letter, what your in laws did was terrible. In the future, it would be understandable if you were less at their beck and call when their honey do list needs attending to. No. Yeah. No. I think that's a horrible way to react. In the end, ask if you want to. That seems like a good first start. Yeah. And then if there's even if if there's a good reason, even if there's not, just be gracious about it. Yeah. You listen. You help people because you want to, not because they're gonna give you something. This stuff's not yours. Yeah. Right. It's it don't it don't belong to you. Right? It it never did. Yeah. Secular's gotta have the worst job in the world, man. This I mean, like, imagine giving opinions on this kind of crap all day. We'll that do that though. Yeah. That's true. I mean, I suppose we could do it. Cup of pots, coffee, some Skittles. We'll be here for on the hours. Skittles? I think at the end of the day though,

you have to live your life with some intentionality. Right? If you wanna help people, help them and don't have a secret motivation that they're gonna give you something or pay you something or whatever. Either help them because you want to or don't. That's what you can control. You can't control how much they pay you. You can't control whether they're gonna give you the silver or not. You can control none of that. What you can control is your ability to be generous with your time. And if you know if it's no longer working out for you, right, like you have a couple kids of your own, making the two hour trek to the in laws is not working out anymore, just call them and say, we'd love to help. We're just gonna have to do it on less of a basis. You know, don't put yourself in a in a terrible straits, and martyr yourself for the situation. Right? Help when you can help. Be generous when you can be generous and and stick to it and and and do that because that's what you wanna do, not because you're trying to weasel some kinda third party deal and make them feel guilty about, you know, when they're about to pass on, they're gonna give you on to silver. That's that's not a good way to live. And especially, it's gonna set you up for, failure. You're gonna expect something and it's not gonna happen and it's gonna create this exact situation here. If you never would have expected the silver, nobody would be banned right now. You expected something that was never That's right. And that and you created this problem. Yep. Yep. Except for she told you it was gonna happen. So I suppose you could have expected she was a liar. I don't know. My vice kinda went down the toilet there. I have a I have a question though. Like, nowadays,

we use, like, 10, $15, $20 and stuff. But I don't know exactly what they mean by silver. Like, just priceless items that, like, are made of silver. Well, could be like teapots or cutlery. No. Or or or like bars of silver. Like legit packaged silver. They're like Oh. The The boons. Old are they? Yeah. Pirate pirate balloons. Yeah. Every every time she refers to it, she puts on an eye patch and goes, argh.

I had the good old days when I had the seal of balloons. The weed whacker better be getting better or you'll get to know silver from me. Don't forget my husband's cock. Get it up yourself. Alright. You've been listening to Live From The Path. Maybe on the podcast, most likely at livefromthepath.org, the hotbed of all kinds no. No. That's that's not likely what's happening.

Nobody goes there. I get I get a report every every every week and says 20 people came to your website. Like three of them from Russia. I don't think we're that popular in Russia. They're probably looking for security vulnerabilities. Yeah. Yeah. They look at the site and go, I can break into here. Hey. I don't want to. Hey. Thanks for hanging out with us. We really do appreciate it. Hey. You can give us a call. (515) 517-0085. That's call or text. Either one will work. That's the live from the path, the complaint line, and I'm gonna give you a secret.

But just don't tell everybody. But you don't even have to complain. If maybe you love the show and you can you can let us know on there. A big thanks to the Foose Girls we're in, today. Thanks, ladies, for hanging out with us. Hey. If you're, if you're interested, the the older Foose ladies, one from each household, run a podcast called Vintage Trouble on the Devil, And, you can search that out and and pick that up and, enjoy their the the comedic stylings and views of the world, from Emma Grace Foust. And also, while we're walking around the room, you can always, hook up with Dan's sermon podcast. Look for Pathway Church in Johnston. And Dan's cranking through the first was it three chapters of Revelation? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right now. Yep. Alright. What about what about my online presence? What online presence? Do you mean Facebook?

I'm not on Facebook. Second rate number1dad.com. Bestgoodwilldadever..org.net. Maybe it was brand new though. Maybe they just like, oh, wow. That's even worse. This looks like a douber butt. That means that means he didn't even get to wear the best dad t shirt. So either it's second hand from a guy who's no longer the best dad or he never was the best dad. He look he look at it and goes, you don't deserve this. This so loud. Presents. Hey. When I'm bored sometimes and I think and I'm at school, I think, hey, guys. You wanna see my famous dad? And I'd look up a picture of you on the Internet, and then I'd look at you from a picture of Life From The Past and say, hey. Look you guys. Look, my dad's on the Internet. Yes. Look at that. That's better than mugshot. Alright. There we go. Life From The Past better than mugshot. We hope to see you next week. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live

from the Past.