Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path.

You're listening to Live From The Path, coming from The Pathway Studios here in Johnston, Prabhupada. Here's the deal. This this show is getting harder to put on. And it's getting harder to put on because as I look at news stories of the day, I don't wanna talk about any of them. They don't they don't pique your interest anymore? No. They're not they don't now, I mean, it's possible that we've done 500 shows or whatever and like, maybe we just touched on articles of a type already. But like,

I I was reading in so high level, we I pull a lot of stuff from the Christian Post because the Christian Post has a decent variety of, like, outlandish things that might be interesting show fodder. But like, it's all like, there's political stuff in there and there's like, hey, this church leader is a problem and the Christians are gonna be persecuted about x y z. And an over enthusiastic article on

either an actor who loves Jesus or some event that happened and now a bunch of people love Jesus. And I I don't know. It just it feels disassociated from my reality,

I guess. Yeah. So do you well yeah. What do you mean by disassociated? Right? It's not the same experience you're having? Kind of manufactured Yeah. Crisis. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of. Like, we're trying to, like, is is the same thing that I think

feel like a mainstream media is doing, trying to catch my eye and get me to read something. Like, is this just a Christian flavor of it? And and if so, I don't just like I don't wanna be taken in by whatever, jigged up, stories that are showing up on, my Google News Feed. I I don't know that I care to get it from the Christian post either. Yeah. I suppose the the gripping, article that said Canadian pastor arrested at an airport warns Americans,

you're next, could just as well been crazy drunk downtown gets arrested says, you're next. And I go, okay. I mean, I guess we'll have to see how it happens. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this guy, like, as a matter of fact, anybody who gets like, something happens to them personally, and then their reaction is to say, I'm just one of many. They're coming after us. Like, people who people who are humble and generally,

like, fighting humbly for good things that Jesus wants don't tend to, like, conspiratorialize out and be like like like, you're you're next.

Basically, like, he's volunteered for martyrdom Yeah. Just by being arrested at the airport. And the thing is if you're a Jesus person, you know that the people just aren't gonna like you anyway. There's gonna be a certain group. And so it's like, well, is that shocking? I mean, I'm not expecting to be arrested. But if I am, it's like, yeah, I guess, you know, he said. I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. Who's who's the guy that that they came to arrest him and he said, well, hang on just a minute. I need to have a prayer. What? Polycarp. Polycarp. Oh, yeah yeah yeah. Right? So I hope fix dinner for him. Yeah. Yeah. The Canadian pastor who was arrested at the airport and warned, you're next. He's the opposite of Polycarp.

Right? That man took his arrest fine, prayed for like a million people, fed the guards while he was there, and basically went to his death and said, yeah, okay. Away with the atheists. You know, like, that guy that guy totally nailed it. And here's the thing is it's at least a little bit of dignity. Right? Like it says, this is what it's it's it's everything that we've been talking about. We we probably brought up the the dudes in the lion's den a couple times the last couple weeks, but like like even Polycarp,

you know, goes, well, you know, it's gonna be what's gonna be. And we light him on fire, nothing happens. They go, we gotta stab this man. He's he's just Right. The fire ain't doing it. We gotta do something different. Right? But like, you read the whole story and it's like, he he followed Jesus with dignity and with a a faith that goes, whatever. I you know, it is what it is. Like, take your arrest. I if if you're really being I didn't read the stupid article. But like, obviously, I'm assuming what the article is saying is that he was arrested for being Christian of some kind. Well, yeah, kind of. He said,

the Canadian Border Service Agency arrested the pastor last week for two outstanding warrants. One for not wearing a face mask, and another for holding a church service in June. He has an upcoming court hearing on October 13 where a judge will decide whether he'll be sent enced to twenty one days in jail. Now okay. So here's here's the problem with I have with this particular posturing, is it's not exclusively Christian. You have a political problem.

Hindus are being like, if you hold a Hindu service in Canada during their lockdown restrictions, they also have a warrant. They're also not allowed to meet. And so and that's true for everything. You can't have a bake sale. I don't know what the equivalent of the Girl Scouts is in Canada, but you can't do that either. And so, like, I understand if you're irritated, you have a political problem because you think your government is overreaching, but like, that's not Christian persecution. Everybody had this. You just think you're specifically targeted because God told you to meet all the time. But like, again, not even super unique.

Yeah. That's true. I mean, once again, it it is as much criticism that that we tend to have for even the Jews in Jerusalem at the time that Jesus was alive, they weren't even this finicky. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're under a Roman dictatorship of know, like oppression. They're like, yeah. It's just part of the deal. We're used to it by now. Right? Like, we've been taken over by, 17 nations in the last three hundred years. We're this is fine. Right? It's just part of our deal. We find a way to continue to love and serve Yahweh under this oppression. But like our posturing, especially in the West and especially under COVID is is you're oppressing me.

That is the that is the big deal. Right? That is the shout. How dare you oppress me? Where where like most of the most of the the the Christian stories of oppression are like, yeah. Yeah. We shine through. We just deal with it. It is okay. We will be oppressed. It's fine. You know, maybe maybe playing off the the the Jewish example you gave. I mean, they they were hoping for the Messiah to come and he'll crush them. Mhmm. You know, it's like, but but until then, we're just gonna keep doing our thing and the Messiah will come and and but why don't we have the same thing? Messiah's coming back and he's gonna crush it all. Yeah. You know, okay. So a few of us get lost in the middle. I mean, you know, it's it's what's gonna happen. This is why Jack Bauer works for a good, type of of person. Right? Like, here's the deal. If you don't wanna wear a mask, okay. And if you're gonna hold service illegally, okay. Take your twenty one days in jail. Don't fight it. Yeah. Right? Like, let's just say, yeah. Okay. When they come to arrest you, don't make a scene. Just go, yeah. I knew what the law was. I didn't do it. And so I'll take my punishment. Right? That's doing this correctly. Right? If you're gonna if you're gonna stand up and do something right, then then then take the punishment for it. Yeah. Right? But to like be like, I don't deserve 21 in jail. This is ridiculous. I'm bothered by right? You didn't do any of this right. You knew what the law was. This wasn't a surprise to you. Right? You did something that you should that that the law said you shouldn't have done. And if you believe in it, then do it and take your punishment. I think I that's that's the right way to live. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So anyway, like, I guess that's the thing is I I read some of these stories and I'm like, I mean, okay. Wait. Like, this is not informing me of anything. It it it feels

like like, does it feel like a sideshow, I guess? Like, we we spend our time getting irritated or or riled up because some guy got arrested at the airport for violating laws that were in place. I mean, okay. I expect that to happen. If there are unjust laws, there's a ways to go about that. But like the fact that you arrested, I mean, doesn't particularly surprise me. So I I was talking to a guy, and he was he's friends with a dude that was did a lot of of work in China. Right? And and hung out with a lot of the the churches there. And like, it's underground church. You're not really supposed to be doing that. Right? And so they had, like, this Chinese guy that was running the the the main office.

And, of course, they had the whole place under surveillance. And and this guy, especially. Right? And because he was of Chinese descent, so he's certainly, guilty of the thing he's doing. And every once in a while, like, you know, they would just, take him and he'd be gone for a couple weeks being interrogated and whatever. And he'd come back two weeks later and they'd go, hey, man. How's everything? He goes, pretty good. And then he go back to work. And then some months later, they'll arrest him again, and and he's just gone. Just no one no word, no nothing, just gone for two weeks. And then he comes back and you go, hey, man. What's everything okay? Yeah. Everything's fine. Right. So this is a man that says, yeah, the the suspected punishment of you running an underground church is arrested and in trouble and, like, there's all kinds of consequences. And he goes, yeah, that's fine. I'll do that. Yeah. And and, like, this dude pastor

books the system, breaks some laws, gets arrested for it or threatened with arrest for it, and he's like, I'm being persecuted. Well, you you're a lawbreaker. Right? Like, whether you agree with the law or not does not matter. That is that is not the point. The point is you knew the law existed and you can fight it. There's all kinds of legal ways to fight it. Right? But until it's fought and won, and you don't believe and you don't think that you should have to adhere to it, I I think that's fine. I like your attitude, frankly, sir. You see injustice or tyranny, you're like, I'm gonna stand up to it. But when you're caught because you broke the law, take your punishment.

Just go to jail like you're supposed to. You know what's interesting is that, like, this this perspective tends to come from, like like, hyper conservative folk who would make the very same case against, like, illegal border crossings. Like, regardless of whether you feel like it's justified to do it, it's illegal. And so, no, you can't just come in here to do that, and there are consequences if you do. And so, like, that guy may disagree with whatever the, COVID restrictions were in Alberta, Canada at the time that he did the violations, but they they were in place and he willfully did it, and he should just accept his consequences. Yeah. Yeah. That's where that's where I lose all respect for stuff like this. Right? Like, is it like, I'm I'm standing up. I'm gonna be the example. The example goes to jail. I don't know if you've seen Jesus or any of the disciples or anybody that actually stood up for anything in history.

Right? Like, you do the thing and then you don't complain about it when the consequences come down on you because that was part of the thing. Right? That was part of the thing you set out to do, is to say, I'm gonna do the right thing regardless of the consequences, and then I'm gonna take the consequences. Well, and I think that the the imperative there is not because Jesus is saying, I want people to stamp on you. It's like your witness is magnified

doing so. Like, if you get arrested and you complain about it and you say, I'm not I don't deserve this. Like, every other criminal said that. Yeah. You should just go, hey, I broke the law. I did it willfully. I wanted to. I'd hold that church service again. Now tell me where I stay. Yeah. Right? Which cell? I can't believe I didn't use Paul for an example. Paul's classic for this. He did a lot of great work in jail. Right? Like and he never he never fought the arrest. Right? He never fought any of the consequence. He took every beating and he took every jail time and he says, yeah, it'll be fine here. I got stuff to do while I'm here. Right? And so the biblical example, if we're looking for the closest thing that us as a human can get to, it's Paul. And you, sir, are not Paul. No. That man is not Paul. Alright. So I did find one article that I thought was alright. And it was twelve stumbling blocks to the gospel for this generation. Who? It's not clear to me. I think it's on millennials. And specifically around millennial leaders. So we'll see. We'll see. The the question is is do these line up? Do we feel either are we seeing this? Are we feeling it? And whatever. K? So so that's like people in their twenties? Is that why? It it I get it all confused now. It extends pretty far. So I think technically, Mike and I might be like at the at the start of the cuff Okay. Of millennials. Hold on. Let's see here. Generation

I feel like I've looked this up before, haven't I? Seems like every five years are coming up with a new thing now. That's like, wait wait a minute. Generations are going quicker now. Okay. Anyone born between 1981 okay. Oh, come on. Where'd it go? We need a chart. '81 and '96 is a millennial. Okay. So that's Mike and I. Yeah. My kiddos are

yeah. Yeah. You'll be too. Yeah. Okay. So here we go. This is by an op ed contributor. He says, preach in many different places and been involved in evangelism overseeing a local church for almost four decades. I found that often it's not the gospel that turns people off, but it's the people carrying the gospel that turns them off. I mean, that's not a particular surprise. I think the church leadership should remove as many unnecessary stumbling blocks as possible so that as many as possible can be saved. The following 12 points are based on conversations I've had with millennial leaders as well as the average person on the street. K. Things that block the gospel according to millennials from this guy's opinion. Number one, an overemphasis on money. I've been in some services where the offering took more than thirty minutes. I mean, that's just inefficient. Wow. Yeah. You're doing it. You're doing it. I mean, I've seen those I've seen some, like, old school cats with the poles and the bags do it faster, like, it in, six. Yeah. I don't know what this thirty minutes is. Yeah. That's that's gonna hinder my gospel too. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. I'm out. I've also witnessed services in which it was common to collect three offerings or more. Really? Oh. I've never heard of that. Have you heard of that, Dan? I suppose it's just like if there is like a special Like a Lottie Moon offering or something? Building offering or,

once a month, they do a missions offering or something like that. But I I maybe. I don't know. Okay. We don't even take an offering. So Yeah. Right. Hindrance. This gives new people the impression that the church leadership is more concerned with collecting money than preaching the gospel. I mean, I bet on balance, he talks longer than it takes to do it. So you didn't say that. Yeah. But like, if you came in if you're here's the thing. If you're wary of it anyway, and like, it is awkward if someone's especially when it's taking. So if you're passing plates or whatever and someone's here to hear the gospel and it sounds like you're gonna be judged for not putting money into the plate and but like, why would you give money? It's it's awkward. That's the thing is that like for a for a church service, if it's internal church business, if people who love and follow Jesus, this is not odd at all. Hey, this is where we put the stuff. If it's not that, if you're expecting people to wandering off the street, that's a crazy odd thing to happen. Mhmm. Yeah. To put a plate in front of him. It's like inviting someone to go into your grandma's house for Thanksgiving and then saying, you wanna leave a tip for grandma?

Yeah. Like, that's what it's like. And then asking him again, are you sure about that tip thing? Yeah. What do really think you should tip grandma? Grandma's gonna be a 50. Is expensive. Yeah. Yeah. You took three mints. You were supposed to take one mint. Now, here's the thing. I think the church should, to the extent that it's using

I think it's always good to remind people how you're using money, how God's money is being put to work, especially when you're asking if you're asking for special extras. And I think I think you can share the gospel through that. Why why why do we collect this money? Well, why do we do the ministry with the homeless? Why do we go over to that apartment complex? Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should do that. And at the same time, there's a basic understanding. I mean, it's not a surprise to anyone that

any I mean, if you go to Walmart, they want you to give them money because that's why that building is there. Yeah. They sell you widgets and then you give them money and then they keep the building and they buy more widgets. And and no matter where you go, if you're in the Boy Scouts, it's gonna cost money to have your son in the Boy Scouts or girl or whatever. Yep. At a church, takes it just takes money. Someone's gotta heat the things. So people know it. I suppose that when they go overboard though, that that would definitely be a turn off. Well, and I think and I've been at places where this has happened. Like, you were visiting a church and like it's what feels like manipulation around money Yeah. I think is the thing. Or even guilt and like, I don't some people are just guilty because they don't give money and you tell them they should and so they get mad at you and they feel guilty about that.

But like, I I think I think having a good theology of money is helpful for this too. Like not just, hey, give money because God expects you to. Like that's actually a bad that's bad theology. Yeah. I would say,

can't money will rule you and you care about, like, making sure that the things of God are supported in your in your community, in your particular context, and your money is what does some of those things. And so, yeah. I would I would I would say some of this goes away by, like, one, just make sure you're not being weird about it. Cause you probably are. If you're doing three offerings, you're being weird. Yeah. If it's taking half an hour, I don't care how big your church is, you're being weird. Get some more volunteers or put it in a box. It would help too maybe if you told like, if you were I mean, overly upfront on where some of this money going. Like, no one one in your church actually knows what one of them spotlights up on the rack cost. They're expensive. They're more than you think. Yeah. Right? And so like like the thing that they believe is, oh, this shouldn't actually be a big deal. You're like, those lights are $200 a piece? Yeah, man. And we use like 25 of them. So just know, like, we've been doing this well. We've been trying to steward the money well, buying a little at a time, whatever. But like, just know that's where some of this is going. Like, they just have no idea what it costs. They don't have any idea what you spend on communion wafers in a week or what it costs to heat the place, you know, and like I mean, places printed up or you can go look at it anytime you want to. But, I mean, it would be helpful to know like, look, man, it's it's not all going to the pastor. I'm just telling you that like most of this is to keep the place heated. Right? If I if I if I put the pastor's salary up on the screen, you'd be like, oh, that's the lesson I make. Right? Like, seriously It depends on the size of the church. I I suppose it depends on the size of the church. But most pastors I know, they they take a very reasonable

salary. Yeah. I think on balance, a lot of times, like, especially in smaller church, like the the like, salaries in general are a good amount of the money. But like, it's what you I mean, duh. Right. We have to pay somebody to be available to do all the stuff that you guys ask. Not to mention, you got the guy wearing five hats. He's like the business manager, the counselor, the marriage guy, the janitor, the backup repair handyman. I mean, honestly. I mean, that's the thing though. Is that like, I I I think there's there's a prudence in making sure that someone's keeping an eye on money in general at your church. But like for the most part, I don't ever worry about where money is going. I'm giving it because of because I I I should.

I think it's good for me. It keeps me from it helps me support what's going on. It helps me support good things that God is doing. And so past that, like, whether it goes to the, you know, it goes to a new furnace filter or whether it goes to the pastor or whether it Yeah. Pays for life. I'm type of manipulative thing a church would say. It was like, you just give. It this this is between you and God what's going on. You the money needs to come from you. And then, it's just the kinda I mean, it's not like untrue, but it's just the kind of something a snaky dude would say so you get money and tell them not to worry about the budget. We have big plans. We need you to fund it. Well, actually, so I think that goes into number two. I think the only reason people were would be suspicious would be the opulent lifestyle of the leadership, which is number two. Mhmm. In many cases, the lavish lifestyle of the pastor and top leaders is a huge stumbling block for the gospel. I believe God wants his children blessed by the wise use of their finances and investments. Still, the pastor and leader should be, model a lifestyle simplicity and not extravagance, especially if they lead churches in poor communities.

The apostle, Peter and Paul both stated that greed should not be a trait of church elders. Yeah. I mean, know your surroundings. Right? Like, obviously, if you're gonna yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just that's pretty straightforward stuff. Well, I mean, I guess here would be the question. Is that like when people are giving,

they're generally they're giving to some sort of connection to spreading the good news. The question is is how tied to that is your Omnilence. Yeah. Probably not. Number three, scandals. In this day and age, any fool can post something scandalous on social media about a church or leader that has no basis in truth. We cannot always avoid these things, which is why you should not be quick to believe what people post about others. However, when leaders don't have proper boundaries in their finances and personal life, they tend to cross the line in both. Those are the ones that are ripe for a public scandal. From the huge televangelist scandals of the eighties to the present, scandals give the unbeliever another excuse not to repent and believe the gospel.

Every leader should be careful what they text, email, post, and say in public and private. They should have a strong interior life in which they walk in fear of the Lord. This enables all of us to depart from evil. So number three is walk faithfully with the Lord. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And actually, I think I think to a certain extent, maybe when you're in a leadership position or a pastor, like, you I I think you have to humbly submit some of the rights that America has afforded you,

in preparation for the gospel. Right? Like, let's say you feel really strong way strongly one way or another, politically. Yeah. You might just watch it. Right? Like, just just watch it. Like, people are looking at you, people are following you, and like, mostly they go to you for

what does God say? What what's what what should I be looking for? How can I seek God in this thing? And if they're so blinded by your freedom in America, which is to pipe off at the mouth and run your mouth on social media, I I just it's a it's a it's a rough line to walk. Right? Like, you basically have to trade a little bit of your your individual freedoms that we give you because you're in a leadership position. Yeah. I think that's true. I think that's well, and it goes to something we were talking just before the show started. I think if your role is peacemaker, and I think Christians in general should be, pastors most certainly,

some of that means, like, you you decrease. Because you're about making peace between two parties, not about you being at the front and center of the process. You're not you're not Kofi and on here. And that's and and that you're not a mindless boob. That's not what we're saying. Right? Like, some people be like, oh, you'll they have to give up all the personal freedoms of that. You can be faceless though. I get that's the point. It's like can. You're not mindless, but I I don't I think you're allowed to be faceless. Yeah. That's I mean, it's probably not a bad thing to to to to strive for. Right? Like like if if if Jesus must increase and you must decrease, I I mean, that was kind of the thing that was said by what Jesus referred to as the greatest man born a woman. And so, like, is this a wrong thing to strive for? Probably not. Right. Number four was duplicitous behavior. These are stumbling blocks, millennial stumbling blocks to the gospel. Duplicitous behavior. When children of believers of the unsaved witness ungodly behavior from their coworkers, employees, neighbors, and friends who claim to be Christians, it is a huge stumbling block to the gospel. I think this one is is giant. Yeah. Absolutely. It's giant. Now but here's the here's the solve for this.

Humility is the solve for this. I you tell your kids, I'm trying to walk faithfully with Jesus. I know I'm doing it imperfectly. They can smell that though. I mean, if if you're if you're faking it Yeah. They can smell that. Well and and you're right. And I think that's the key issue Yeah. Is is where where yours and so where it says duplicitous behavior, let's go with hypocritical. Yeah.

Do as I say, but not as I do type of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think this one's I think this one's huge. I I doubt this one is is tied to millennials specifically. Right. I that's everybody. Always. That's how the gospel spreads, frankly. Yep. Is when they look at your behavior and go, that is not duplicitous. That is self serving. That's self sacrifice. I'm sorry. That is self sacrificing.

Actually, every, like, older folks that I've run into who've got problems with the church, it's always related to they saw a pastor and they didn't like what he what he was doing or their dad or grandpa was acting in such a way and it turned them off for church and they just never went back. Number five, religious titles. The right the right reverend Dan Hudson. Mhmm. Many millennials in certain communities are turned off by the excessive use of elaborate religious hierarchical titles.

In some religious settings, everybody has a title like bishop, apostle, doctor, reverend, archbishop, and more. Our doctor is not a bestowed upon title. Doctor Martin Luther King. Well, I think he was a he was a legit doctor. Like in medical practices? No. No. But he had a doctorate. Alright. Young young people are special. I mean, I wouldn't but I suppose it's how you introduce yourself.

The message this morning will be given by archbishop doctor Stan. Some people really key off their titles. That turns me off for sure. Yeah. Young people says young people are especially turned off by the need for this kind of identification for self validation. I I would agree. I mean, to a certain extent. I mean, sometimes I I you know, I wanna know that I'm I'm I'm being given the word by somebody who has put a little work into it.

I I feel goofy calling myself pastor. I think I'm just I'm just Dan. I'm just Dan. I'm just Dan. But I'll throw it out there because people because they they wanna have okay. I I mean Yeah. What what do got? What do got? I mean Well, some people I think I think it's it's the term of respect to use it. Like, they want to show you some level of respect. And you're like, hey, just call me Dan. I I don't think so. That makes me uncomfortable. Yeah. I don't think I'll be up pastor Dan. So wait wait. Like, really, like, you if you some guy gets up and goes, hey, I I I I'm Pete Thompson. I wanna give you a message. You feel better if he goes, I'm the archbishop Peter Thompson? No. No. I probably don't. I'm flabbergasted at this this I don't think I actually think that. Okay. It just I I mean, I guess I've been I like

I listen to some theologians, you know, like, I I appreciate if you've had a doctorate in your name because I feel like you've put some work into it and you're not just guessing. Yeah. I I I prefer that off of probably biblical scholars that more so than I would have a pastor. But sometimes they talk in a real doctorate type way, and then I don't understand it either. And then that's not good. I tried to read a commentary this last week on Matthew. And boy, I I don't I've never been leveled to feel like such an idiot in the time that, like I mean, they're like, there's five separate movements of the first two chapters or whatever. I'm like, what are you even talking about? I don't understand. It could be it could be done like this. And if you compare it to the blah blah blah of the turn am or something, I'm like, I don't know what you're saying. I can't read this anymore.

Just look for the under underlined passages. I'm like, wow. Actually, that's whenever I give a first pass at reading a commentary about something I'm gonna teach, like the first is like is a skim and I'll underline things that I at least understand. And that way when I go back, I don't waste my time rereading things, which I didn't get the first time. Yeah. They're like, if you're familiar with the works of Paulson, he did a paper on this in 1978. I'm like, I'm not familiar with the works. That's why I'm reading your commentary. Yeah. Stop it. Your Your job is to read Paulson and just You read Paulson. Give me the balance. And regurgitate

it to me in a way I can understand it. Yeah. Okay. Six, religious language. People in this generation are not as religious as the previous generation and feel disconnected when a believer constantly uses religious vocabulary in everyday communication. We have to learn to communicate using the language of Babylon, in quotes, if we intend to make a strong connection with this generation.

We have to teach believers how to think biblically but speak secularly if the gospel will make inroads in culture. I don't know. True? Yeah. It's like me reading a commentary. I don't understand. Yeah. Right? Like, I I I mean, oddly, I don't know why you have to say language of Babylon. That's weird. But I assume that's a reference to a a bible verse somewhere? I don't think so. Okay. Well, I I wouldn't use if you're trying to not use religious language, I wouldn't use the phrase language of Babylon then because that doesn't that make no sense to nobody who don't know the bible. But overall,

like, I I once again, I read a very well meaning, probably well written and scholarly fantastic commentary on Matthew. I didn't get to lick anything out of it. I mean, I had forty five minutes in this book. I have 45 pages in, and I'm like, I have no idea what's going on here. It's completely wasted over. Is that RT France? Whatever that commentary? Whatever that £15 book you gave me was. I love that commentary. Yeah. It's way over my head, Ben. It's a good one, though. Yeah. Okay. So but I so I think the point though is is that, like, often where people are put off, it's it's, it's a religious blindness. Like, you're using references nobody knows. So, like, this isn't even just religious in nature. I would say, look, if you're trying to communicate an idea to someone, you should probably use terms that they get. You should probably use examples that they understand.

And so like, when we when we say even even things that seem innocuous like, hey, we just wanna love on people or or the spirit. Talk about the spirit. Like, these people don't understand what this is. Yeah. They don't get it. And so I don't how many people like that I've run across that don't understand, like, when they say, the people of Israel. They don't have any idea what that means. Right? Like, to them, it's a g it's geographical.

Right? That they're contained within a country. That's not how any of the New Testament is is talking about people of Israel. Right. I I've taken I think every time I say, like, the nation of Israel, I think I've I've been following it up with the definition. Israel was a man. He had these children.

Right. This grew into a people, like type of stuff. So that, like, there's at least some context because like, you're right. There's a lot that flows around on on people's understanding of that. Correct. Yeah. And I think that's important because it's important to use biblical words if they're people who want to pursue Bible knowledge. Yep. Because I think the church has gone the opposite direction, extremely the other way, and that people are growing up not even knowing the Bible because they were afraid to say Bible but yeah, I would I I I try to stay away from theological terms that aren't in the Bible, but somebody made up and, you know, sounded impressive,

you know, in the education circles. But, I'll use biblical terms. And if I remember to, give some definition like that. That's that's that's super. Because then it gives them some context, gives them some I people I in general, people find that stuff really interesting. Yeah. Right? Right? Like, I can't the the the the highlight of youth group two years ago was when I said the Hebrew name for Jesus was Yehoshua. And they, boy, they just thought this was the coolest

thing ever. Like that like they knew something and they're like, that makes, well, you know, way more sense. And they were super excited about it. And I thought, man, I mean, I didn't even know that before, like, a month ago, you know. And I and I was excited about it too. And but but I would have been lost on me if you'd have just skipped it and been like, talk more I I don't know if I agree with this completely. Right? Like, talk in a more Babylon or secular type way. Right? Like, why don't you teach me how to how to read my Bible well? Yes. Right? Explain it to me in a Babylon way. Yeah. But like, lead me to still waters. Lead me to something better and something that will will be helpful to me,

as I grow. Yeah. Right. If you're gonna say if you're gonna say amen, here's what you're saying. Right. When they say hallelujah, they've actually they're saying praise Yahweh. That's what they're that's what they're saying. Now now do you does that help you? And so like like not providing definition doesn't give people a chance to connect with it and actually feels like separates them from it because it seems like you have a special language. But you don't. You just need to know a definition of something. Yeah. So yeah. I would agree. Let let's I think we would change this one to religious language isn't problematic as long as it's well defined. Because like most of it's interesting. Even the biblical stories, if if you're too familiar with them, like like we've even yeah. We've talked about Daniel, you know. People like, if you don't know Daniel, you have no idea, but you have no contact. Right. Correct. I didn't know there was a lion's den. What does that even mean? You So we have to be careful not assuming they know too much, but not keeping them dumb, so to speak. Not dumbing down your language so they don't learn. Right. So there's a tricky balance in there. Yeah. I think on the whole, I I think I don't agree with them there. I think I if you teach people the language of the Bible that it is written in, right, like what things mean and how you can connect them, I think people find that fascinating. Mhmm. And it like illuminates,

their own Bible reading when they read it. Yeah. Yeah. Well and actually, like, if it feels like if it feels like it is being dumbed down for them, like they're getting a kid's version of something, like, how could they approach this book and its author as positions of substance? Yeah. Something that actually makes a difference. Right. Asking you to change your entire life over the story of Barney or, you know You're right. With the dinosaur singing a song. It's like, I need more than that. It's the it's the same reason that I'm always always hesitant to dump, like, won't do we'll dump a story down for kids. Like, we still teach Jonah chapter four. Yeah. Jonah wailed. Oh, yeah. He felt like they they they repented. And then Jonah pounded. Like, the kid needs to know that. And like, the language that's undergird some of these things, like, you're right. You're preparing them for a genuine and deeper interaction

with these stories that have been passed down to us, there's no reason to dumb them up. But they need help. And you should certainly help them. But the yeah. I wouldn't skip it. And I wouldn't try to tell it cooler than it is or different language than it is. Yeah. That's not helping anybody. I agree. Number seven was religious images of power. Are these some of these things seem to relate related to, like, specific denominations. Like Yeah. Because I've never had

like this one, vestiges of authority and power in the church turn off many young people. They more easily relate that to down to earth transparent leadership. They're turned off when they see thrones on a church stage. Like, I'm gonna do I'm gonna tell you this right now. I would I don't care who you are and what denomination you're in and how long that freaking throne has been there. You throw it away directly. Yeah. You do not need a throne on the stage for any reason. I I have seen those a lot. Yes. Get rid of them. Little country churches and and and they mean well. It's supposed to be an honor and distinction. It's like for like maybe the elder serving communion or something. But it's like, yeah. That was a that was a turn off for me and I'm beyond Age of the millennial. Yeah. Man's I was gonna say post millennial. Was pre millennial, really.

Amillennial. So So I don't even know why that's funny. That's why that's funny because I don't know even know why it's funny. I mean, it fits Dan, actually.

Stuff, man. You guys say stuff like that and I thought, uh-huh. This will be funny. Yeah. So like, I totally get this because like it does like, you have a mistrust. And so I would think this is true for millennials in general, actually. We have a mistrust of power in general, which I think is is good. There's something real healthy about that.

So there's mistrust of power, and there's a mistrust of people who are intent who appear to be taking intentional steps to make sure their power is known Uh-huh. Before they have the ability to influence you. Like, if you show if I show up to a room and there's a guy who's got a bigger bigger chair that he's sitting in and I gotta sit in a tiny chair, I'm out on that. I feel like I'm being manipulated. It that's actually the core of my generational stuff is that, like, we're we've become I think I've explained this before on the show, but I'm gonna reiterate here because I think it's important.

It's a generation of people who are wary of being advertised to. Like Yeah. There there there were generations before us where, like, advertising was it wasn't everywhere. Like like, you knew you were gonna see it on TV. You knew you'd see it in the newspaper, and, like, you knew you'd seen it in a billboard. Right? But, like, everything I wanna look at or engage with on my phone or even with my like, something that's got advertisements on it. Like, the ball club's got 50 advertisers on the back. If I wanna go see a young kid play softball. And so like

but it was it was like the the height of, like, late eighties, early nineties is when all the research, like, starts flowing out on, hey, man. You wanna make your sign color sign red? It'll stick with them. And, like, all these like, the psychology of advertisement, although was known, started being taught to kids. Like, we knew it when we were growing up. And so, like, we're we became wary that we were being advertised to because we became wary of being manipulated. And so, like, this is why I walk into a church and I see a fog machine. I'm like, oh, I like, we're behind the curtains, people. Like, we're used to behind the scenes, stuff that never would have been the the Lucy and Desi show, you're like, you caught it live. You only saw whatever happened. But our generation read the biography and got to see the behind the scenes special. And so, like, we we're we're very perceptive and at least or at least aware

of people putting things on and what they're trying to accomplish, which ruins things, to be honest with you. Like because the first they're gonna go is like, hey, there's fog machine. I wonder why they're doing fog. They're trying to give me a vibe of this thing. And now I know now now we understand people's motivations

on how they're trying to manipulate me. And so, like, now you go into a church and, like, the church is just trying to provide a nice atmosphere for people. They want them to be, comfortable. They want them to hear good quality music. And, like, there's a snarky millennial millennial getting the back going, hey, man. This isn't this isn't granola.

What are they doing here? They're trying to they're trying to manipulate me. I don't think that's getting any better actually even with generation z coming up. Agreed. Like, which makes me wonder actually how Hillsong has done as well as it has. Right? Like they're like, if if there was a style of Christian music that is most likely manipulative, it's fog machine and like synthesizer with long pauses and consistently repeated phrases over and over and They've over

solved that with the pastors. So like, if they look at a guy like Karl Lenz, may his, may his pastorship rest in peace.

Like, he was real. Right? So even if the things surrounded like, it felt like he he didn't show up in a suit. The guy was wearing a leather jacket or had like this is where you get the sweet sneakers of the guy. Like, if if if you feel like the church is being led by someone who is not manipulating you, you trust the stuff that then flows out of it. Right? So then then the music just seems, oh, hey, man. We put on good music because why wouldn't you put on good music? Right? Like, yeah. We we put we we run the fog because, like, it helps you get into a mood of of getting shaking off earthly things that are bogging you down from interrupting with the spirit. Like, okay. Like, it it sounds right when it feels like you're talking to someone who runs the ship who feels like they're they're down to earth. And so I think that's that's the mix of of where you're actually still being manipulated. You just trust the manipulator, which is odd. It's an odd space to be in. But, like, I I just so the point being of all that is that, like, when you walk in and you see a throne, you're like, who does this guy think he is? He he knows he's sitting on a throne. What is he claiming?

What what type of force or manipulation is he trying to put over me? He's just a man just like I'm a man. And so unless he feels like he hears from God better than anybody else does, I don't trust him already. Like, we're just very we don't like power structures, and we're aware of where it feels like we're being manipulated. Now they're not don't get me wrong. Melanoma is not perfect at this. We are constantly manipulated and on board with it. Like, but again, it's it's trusted people. A celebrity can lead totally lead someone astray. But because you trust the person.

And so when you think the person is either like you or would like you, or you feel like especially when it comes to, like, being able to do things like Twitter and TikTok, it's like you're not getting a polished image of them anymore. You get them in their house. You get them in their bathroom. You get them eating a chicken. And so, like, you feel like you're now interacting and you trust them more, and so it doesn't feel like you're being manipulated.

It is funny though, like, today, they're even call themselves influencers. No. That's true. Yeah. They just come right out with it. That's like yeah. It's like, I'm just here to make you buy these Cheerios. That's right. I will hold time influence you. That's right. So like I like I although That's ridiculous. Although we're wary of it, like I would say I mean, of course, this is a huge bucket of variant people. But like, that's why I'm saying we're not we're not immune to being influenced. It's just you you had to do it differently. It can't come off as too polished. It can't come off as like I mean, you could come out right and say, I'm here to influence you. We're like, let me hear what you gotta say. Yeah. I might be on board with that. Are you good at it? Because maybe I should be influenced. I need some of those shoes. Yep. And this was one of those things where like, remember when we were talking about some of the COVID restrictions and churches having to to

go online, is that, like, you gotta be careful, especially with our our generation and probably, younger than that. It's like, don't bat above your grade. If you can't do well, don't try don't try to don't try to make it look like you're better than you are. They won't appreciate it. The effort you put in, like, the the what felt like the fifties sixties type of effort where, like, hey, man, you put on the suit even when you're poor, and you you act a certain way when everyone else is around even if it's not true. Like, the facade part felt like effort. Felt like, hey, we're trying our best. You should and that we should be honored for that. Melanos don't like that stuff. They're put off by it. And so, you might as well just embrace humbly do the best you can, but, like, bat within your league. Okay. Religious behavior. Sometimes in church, the people have so many protocols, traditions, and rituals, it scares new people into thinking they have to become religious robots to believe. We need to show the world the difference between being religious, which does not save or sanctify a person, and having a relationship with the Lord Jesus.

Now I do think he's getting lazy here because I don't like I don't like the phrase, it's it's not a religion, it's a relationship. Because, like, think of think of James talking about he's fighting for a right religion. Like, here's what religion looks like. Here's where it's doing well. It's serving the poor, as a matter of fact, is is was James' perspective. And so, like, James didn't look at religion as a bad as a naughty word. And so I I like, I do wanna be careful that you again, don't disassociate good rhythms

in churches as if they an outsider shouldn't be exposed to them. Because like, I mean, let's say, hey, because you let me let me just we'll just get this out of the way. Prayer freaks everybody out. Prayer is a weird thing to do if you don't believe it. If you don't understand what you're doing and you walk into a room of people, like, of all shapes and sizes and monetary,

like, income and all kinds of stuff, and, like, all of a sudden, they all in unison start talking to an invisible presence. And and everyone kind of agrees to it, you're just sitting there kinda looking around. That's weird. And so what are you gonna do? Not pray

during the service because it might freak somebody out? Because that's the weirdest thing that you do. And the answer is no. You don't do that because, like, you're introducing them to something. You're showing them what it looks like to do something that they don't have a familiarity with. It won't take very long for them to get it. But, like, the the opposite thing, I guess, when is I look at something like that, if you're not gonna pray then or you're not gonna do certain certain things, when you go springing on them, friend? Like, when's the right time to be like, oh, well now, just so you know, we do this in the back We the do this weird thing just for heads up. Now, all that to be said, stop doing weird crap.

Like like, that's not biblically prescribed. So so some of your stuff is weird. Like, like, I've you've been to some of the some of the I'm not it's not old church. That's not high church. And then it feels like there's some guy warbling somewhere.

And he's like waving stuff around and lighting candles and things like that nobody understands. And so like, you should stop doing that unless again, you're gonna educate people about it. Oh. When I went to the Christmas mass one time and some dude with a legit short sword on his belt pushed a cart around with the with the communion on it. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like the the guard of the supper. I don't can't remember what his title was, but I thought, and he clanked around like it was totally above board. And I'm like, what? Why is that guy have a sword? Why is it I mean, is there a real danger in this? People come after it. Trying to take a thief of it or something. And then, you know, here's the thing. There might in some of that stuff, there might be some very theologically rich things going on. Yeah.

But you guy you but I would say if you're not prepared to explain it every week, you don't have the time to give it to it, don't do it every week. Unless you can help people contextualize it. Because, like, you might create deeper connections to people who already know Jesus. But again, if you're if you've if you're using your Sunday morning as a or Saturday night or whatever it is as a means to connect people to with good news that they otherwise have not heard, that sword is gonna put them off. They should put a sign like they do at the zoo. Right? And it says, like, knight of the sacrament. The knight of the sacrament is, well, blah blah blah, and he wears a sword for blah blah blah. Like, at least I could stop by my way in and go, oh, no kidding. Well, that makes way more sense. We went to a Catholic funeral a few weeks ago in Kentucky. And, you know, there's all this stuff I don't know what what it means. Yeah. But they gave programs for the funeral that explained like all of it. Was so cool. Right around through the service, here's why they're lighting the candles, here's what represents, yada yada. And it was really it was deep and rich. Yeah. They only got about three quarters of the way. Then they started doing other stuff, and I and then I got lost. I'm like, I I I'm doing now. Yeah. Right. You had me. Yeah. Like, listen, I was impressed. Yeah. And then I'm like, wait. Now there now people are standing and sitting and and it didn't say to stand there. And Yeah. So they were close. They were close. I thought that kneeling post at the Catholics was like I'd like so you could put your feet up. And so like everyone else is kneeling on the thing and I like I got my feet all up on it.

Then like Shoes off. As soon as I figured out what it was, I'm oh, man. And, you know, I guess that brings up a good point that I think is true for for most of the millennial generation too. Is that like, they do have a value in richness and something that feels authentic. Authentic and rich, and, like, it doesn't matter that it's old. Remember we talked about there's a trend with people moving into high church denominations. Like, there there are parts of kinda like the older school Lutheranism and and even Catholicism

is growing because people look and they go, hey. Look. I'm being advertised to in all this stuff, and, like, they're trying to make something sound hip. I care whether it's real. And, you know, as as as difficult as it is to wade through some of that stuff, the Catholics are committed to it. It feels real to them. Mhmm. Even if it's rote, even if it's like the same thing happening all the time. And, like, once they get connected to rich traditions, like, they feel like there's a connection to them and what people have fought and died for and suffered through for years and years and years. And so, like, I it just you just gotta be careful that you don't you don't shallow things to people can deal with deep things, but they they do wanna know what actually means something. Do we do this for a reason? And as long as you're doing that, then I actually wouldn't be too put off by some of your by some of your events and stuff like that. Yeah. Nine,

territorial emphasis over kingdom focus. Many are turned off to the gospel when they see leadership merely focused on their agenda while neglecting the good for their community. God called us to serve our communities, not just build larger church buildings. Well, okay. I think you gotta be more specific there. Because your agenda should be serving like,

bringing good to the community, regardless of what however that is defined. Building larger church buildings, like, can be a service to community. It can. Yeah. I think you gotta be prayerful about this kind of stuff, giant,

complex people. But like, it can be. And so again, like, I I think the problem is the shallowness. If you're saying, hey, we're building a big building. We need to raise $200,000,000. And people don't have a context to why you're doing this. If it's, hey, we're growing. God's sending more people. We wanna be able to administer to these folks and open it up for this thing going on these days and blah blah blah. Like, again, just help people understand it. If it's righteous,

they won't mind. If it's not righteous, they won't give. I think if you I think if you turn the focus around a little bit and not put so much of the onus on church driven events of this nature, I I think actually you're probably hitting the closer to the nail on the head. Right? Like like we'd be to our community, how are you guys doing this? Right? Not the church will sponsor one, show up to it. Right? Like, how like, we need people out living like legit disciples. It's the same thing we were talking about like three rings up, or like, where people are turned off when they see hypocritical behavior. They're also interested when they see actual Christians living out the thing that God has asked us to do. Right? And so like,

when you only show up underneath a church campaign, it looks like you're being herded by an organization. Like as a millennial, that's how I see it. Right? Like, you wouldn't go do this on your own. You're only going to do it because your church said you had to go do it and so that's why you showed up. But like if you show up in, you know, randomly feeding homeless people and I happen to be there and talk to you and find out, oh yeah, you go to that church down the road. No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that's all you had to say about it? That's just God's people doing God's things. Yeah. Right? Like I can dig on that and then I can I can look at That's authentic to me? Right? Like, that's not hypocritical. Not to say that you use the church, you can't go out and do stuff. I think you should. Right? Like, so people know that you're available and like, if you're looking for, for a relationship with Jesus Christ, this is where you can this is the best place to start, you know. But at the end of the day, if your people aren't doing the the hands and feet of God without your church banner in front of them,

I'd say you're dragging them around more than they're, you know, they're they're following on their own. Number 10 was programs over people. Many people are turned off to the gospel when they see the church focus more on events and programs than on connecting to and loving people. I now here's the only thing in defense of this, I would say, I think most of the church programs are intended to do that. Yeah. I but I think but again, I I think you I think that's a fresh thing to look at at least once a year, if not more than once, is to look at the suite of things that you're offering and going, here's what we intended for this to do. Is it doing it? And if it's not doing it, you should stop doing it. Or if you look out and say, look, here's some of it. Like, how many of the things are primarily

focused on people who already go to church here? And how many things are primarily focused on people who are trying to pray the good news too? And make sure your ad balance is good. But like, I mean, most people are not putting in programs just for the sake of self fulfillment. Like, they they believe it's doing something positive for the church or for the community around them.

Number 11, triumphalism. I ain't dead too. Many young people are turned off to triumphalist prayers and pronouncements about taking cities and nations back for God. They feel called to serve their community, not to take it over by force. We in the church have to be careful with the kind of language we use to communicate our vision. Question is in in the new to in the New Testament specifically,

do we see a triumphant posturing when it comes to the spreading of the good news? No. And actually, I I do they use the word revival much? Right? Because it was new to them. It's like, yeah, they did it, but they didn't define it that way. It was new going out to the Gentiles. It was introduced, not reintroduced

or revitalized. They turned the city upside down and said, we're gonna take the city, you know. I was like, well Yeah. Just did it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's the thing. It's like peep things that feel like well, things that feel like conquest

that are said by people feel wrong relative to how you're trying to portray who Jesus is. Jesus if Jesus fights and wins by dying,

what we mean is a a way to motivate people to share good news and so and seeing tangible success in that. What it hears or what it feels like external to people, who have good hearts about the thing, is it feels like you're just grabbing land. I feel like there there's a distinct difference between the prayer that says, or that that like an announcement that says, we're gonna tear this we're gonna tear this town up for,

you know, for Jesus. Or you say, I've been praying that Jesus tears this town up. Those are two very distinct things to me. Yeah. Right? Like, I do pray that Jesus does that. I don't know whether he's gonna use us to do it or not. We're willing though. Right? Like that it seems to put it in just a little bit of a different order that says, we're gonna defeat this this town and whatever it has going. Instead, we're saying, we're inviting Jesus to have his way within with with everything in this town, and we would love to be a part of it. That's right. So I I think the main barrier is when you use language like that, it it sounds like you're fighting against people when your goal is to fight for them. Yeah. And it doesn't and like, and actually, this is a helpful critique because where your heart's in the right place and your language is not serving you, you would you want you wanna know that. Yeah. That's true. If it's communicating the opposite of what you intend, then yeah. Then I would I'd I'd change your language so that it so that it actually communicates what your heart is. Because people's heart isn't to fight against people. It's what they mean is is I wanna spread such good news and have the city turned upside down and have it reflect and mirror

Jesus in our community. That's what they intend. But when it sounds like a conquest or fighting against, you're you're just messages and helping what you actually wanna do. And and once again, think you're messing with just a little bit of a biblical principle here and it's a small one, but like, you can't do anything. Right? Jesus does these things. Right? And so, like, it's it's his power and his thing. Right? It just seems different when the God of the universe says, yeah, I'm gonna visit this town. Right? Opposed to when you're gonna visit the town, you know? Yeah. Right. There's a difference between standing up and saying, we're gonna take out the Artemis idol dealers as opposed to

we're bringing Jesus to people and, oh, they stopped buying idols. Yes. Yes. You know, I mean Yes. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Because you're you're you're putting the ends before the means. Yeah. Right? Like, you're just like, God, you do what you want. We're here to serve. I'm praying that you revitalize this town and tear it up. Right? That's a cool prayer. And we get on board with that every day. But you say, I'm gonna go right after the the idol dealers. Lord, you got my back on this? You helped me tear this place up. You're the kind of guy that sits on the throne. Right? That's not a good move. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Finally, number 12, things that millennials are put off by from hearing the good news.

No community and authenticity. What most people crave the most is community. Everyone needs to feel loved and to belong to an entity greater than themselves. Part of the church's call is to assimilate new believers into the visible body of Christ through relationships and discipleship. When people come into the church and only experience program based Christianity, they will eventually leave and look for a real community.

Yeah. I don't know how you program that into people. Sometimes we're really bad at this. Right? Like, people show up and they're like, they keep showing up. And like, we have to, like, sick our our registered good people on them. Right? We're like, who are nice to everybody, love people, and like, well, you go go talk to them. They've been here the last couple of three weeks. Right? Like, you'd hope that once once somebody in your church has already gotten there. Right? Before you had to get the backup plan of, like, we keep these people, like, in the pocket in case the rest of our community fails us. Yeah. And then people start counting on that. Right? Like if if if April and Rick are the standards, and we're like, they'll eventually get to the new people. I don't need to go over there. We're not doing this well, you know. Right. Well, and I think this one falls into a similar bucket. It's like no one is I feel odd being the guy that defends this. But like, programs are not like, I I think it's I think it's a false dichotomy that's being presented here. Like, hey, this is a program based Christianity.

Like, the discipleship program is intended for good things. Like, the various the women's ministries. Like, all these things are set up to do good things. Your problem is if you every every person who's interacting with or leading these types of things relies on them like they're an assembly line. To the extent that you engage with people and love them and create relationships with them and have also opportunities for, like, one on one discipleship, then these things are just enhancing that. And that's okay. I think the discipleship thing is rough to me. Think because, again, people you just gotta be careful people don't rely on your program versus actually what it looks like to live in their context. But like, just just wanna be careful that you don't take what is good intentions

and well used in certain circumstances. Like, if you'd lean on it too heavy, it will break, but it doesn't mean it's not valuable. It's a good leg and a three legged stool, but you can't go around and just lean on it only. I think that's more of the gap than anything else. There's no reason to chuck the whole notion of, hey, man, can I can I run a class on spiritual gifts? Yeah. Go ahead. It's even if it doesn't even if maybe I don't particularly care for the methodology or the outcome, you had Christians meeting, praying, and thinking about a specific thing that they were then asking God about together. How can that be bad? It's not bad.

And so just but it's just not the only thing. It's not the only leg on the stool. Okay. And would you guys add any to this list? I don't know. A couple of them were kind of, repeats could be kind of taken in under a larger umbrella of, like, just being,

just being authentic and transparent. Right? Like, here's the situation we're in. Right? Like, here I'm I'm preaching the you know, this is what God called me to do, and I'm glad you're here, but this I'll be doing this. Right? Like, it's just it's just being honest with what's going on. I think I I think you're right about some of the generational stuff. I I do get taken off by what seemed like over over programming or like trying to shove me in a bucket, you know, like, but then on the other hand, some of that stuff needs to be knocked out of your church goers too. You know, right? Like like, the whole place ain't tuned to you. You know what I'm saying? Like, we obviously, if we're gonna have, you know, even 500 people here on a Sunday or something, we can't, you know, we can't have an individual class just the way you like it. That's the the cultural thing that we're trying not to feed into is your individualistic

right to have everything tuned specifically to your liking. Right? Like, we're gonna have meetings, but they're gonna be at a time that you don't like. Yeah. You know, you might have to make sacrifice to be there. You know, not, hey, I can only make it 07:45 and that's only if my babysitter shows up. Blah blah. Look, man, we started at 07:30. I don't I don't know what to tell you, you know. So I I don't know. Like, some of that you wanna push back on and go look what we're already feeding into a tune everything to me individual society. But then on the other hand, do I think, one on one discipleship between like a couple or family to family, is better than programs? Yeah. I I actually do think that. Yeah. I do. Yeah. So so I'm and so I mean, we we pray and we and we ask God to send leaders. Right? You know, we say, hey, we need people to step up to do this and, to the extent that we, program seems, righteous and good, then let's do a program. To the extent that we need to do this on a family to family basis, Let's pray for that too and and and pray God puts two people together. A lot of this stuff is like,

run through the Holy Spirit kind of stuff, and it's okay for it to be gray and different every time based on whatever God has you doing, you know? Yeah. I think it's a mistake, for example, to assume or to make it sound like the early church was opposed to organizing. Right? They were, like and they were here's the thing. They were both. They house churched, a good chunks of them. They also organized as communities to do to do certain things. So, like, just just be careful we don't over ring the cloth here on on a bias of is it okay to organize to accomplish a specific purpose? Sure. Absolutely. Where did Paul go? Right? Paul goes to put where he knows people are already organized. Yeah. You know? And so he shows up at temple. It's not like he like, well, it's not righteous if I don't pick him off the street as I yell from a box. Right? That's not how that worked. And so like, yeah, organization isn't inherently bad. It's okay to put some thoughts with the brain God gave you. I think it's the same it's not even a critique, really. It's just something

to keep in mind. But like, just don't don't take the Holy Spirit out of it. Right? Like, don't take God out of the picture. Right? Your church has to run on God's good blessing and his good word and, like, pray continually that the Holy Spirit will show up and do amazing things and you get to watch and, like, apart from a direct word from God, here's what I'm gonna do, Lord. Is this cool? Yeah. So I I think that's actually the key thing is that, like, the the the the thing that separates millennials from I think some of these things is if it feels like it's not creating a genuine

persistent constant faith. If it feels like like steps

in the game of life. Oh, I take the class. Okay. Great. Oh, like I made I I made it to apostle level. I got the green belt in Christianity. Like, whatever it is. If it felt like there's success markers, the gamification of your faith is not what if you want something rich and deep, you don't wanna be gamified. You don't wanna be felt like you're being, oh, I I I've I've, or even encouraged that you've acceded to some certain level based upon the types of things that you're doing. And so, like, as long as these things are used contextually as part of a rich introduction to Yahweh and

bible and discipleship so that, like, your whole life changes, not your I'm I'm going up the corporate Christian ladder and being a better Christian than I was yesterday. Like, that's that's what they're pushing back against. And so, like, hey, here's the thing. I've gone through I've gone through classes. I've gone through programs. And I didn't feel poorly about any of them because, like, it was an addendum. It was it was a a contextual thing or like something that added to stuff I was already doing.

It's just when you lean on it. That's all. Don't lean on it. Don't make this like, hey, we got we got really great programs. Well, if your people aren't getting into accountability groups and and discipleship and making true relationships, they're just cogs that move into to pamphlets and programs, you have yourself a problem. Even if you're teaching all those things excellently. That's all. That I I think that's that's where you just gotta be careful. I don't think again, I don't know. Just don't throw the baby out the bath bar. Are you listening to Life From The Path? Hey, maybe you thought of one. Maybe you say, hey, I'm a millennial or I'm not a millennial and like, you know, here's here's the things that weren't on the list that I think are are good news blockers

in the world, either for you or for our church's ability to to reach out to others. And so let me let let us know. Call the Bob Eisenhower Life in the Pathway line, (515) 517-0085. That's call or text that line, (515) 517-0085. We'd we'd love to hear from you on that. And any other thoughts you had on the show? Mike, we've we've run longer than I expected. Let's do one advice and call this thing a night. Dear,

life from the path. I'm a man in my late forties who has been looking for love all my life. One factor that has made it difficult is my height. I'm four eleven tall.

What makes finding I don't know why I wrote it like that. What what makes finding someone nearly impossible is that the online dating site profiles always ask for my height. Unfortunately, being extremely short in stature isn't a characteristic women are looking for. So even though I can spend upward of an hour filling out all the profile information,

the system invariably returns a no match for me. Do you think I should lie about my height? And when I meet the person, hopefully, she can give me a chance or am I destined to spend my life alone? Now these aren't the only two options, friend. Yeah. Now, I sympathize with this man because he's up against an algorithm. He's four eleven tall, man. Right? Like there's because here's the deal, you know that ladies are going through and they're putting their preferences or whatever, And no one no one can cross that that under that five barrier. Yeah. Give me a short step. You say, look, I'll take five and above. And so he's one inch shy of the algorithm picking them out and saying, look, you didn't make the grade. And so that's really that's You think really you should fudge it to five one or whatever? Ain't nobody on a on a quick eyesight gonna go, you ain't no you ain't no five one. You're four eleven for sure. I don't I don't mind I don't mind fudging it to five.

I that doesn't solve any of his real problems, to be honest with you. I'm just saying in practicality. I it's that that's what the the thing is people don't realize as you use computer programs, like, they're dumb. They're dumb things. They're just you've presented a filter and it's like buying and it's 99¢ or a buck. Four eleven to five foot. That online dating is a meat market. I don't know if you want in there anyway, friend. You know what I'm saying? Meet meet someone live. I mean Yeah. Live people. Yeah. There's gotta be another way

where you don't have to be dishonest. I mean, love it. Like I say, it's not a big dishonesty, but it's still dishonest. I mean, just forget the stupid computer game and go places where there's socially people mingling.

Let them fall in love with your personality and who you are. I wonder if he's tried that. That's how he ended up online dating. Yeah. Mean, now his shortness is gonna be evident. I mean, okay. Here's the deal. And and of course, there ain't no ladies in this room to ask. But I mean, is this a real deal breaker? Because like, if push comes to shove, you say, look, Mike, would you ever consider ever dating a short woman? No. How about a real tall Amazon woman? No. I got no problems either way. Right? Is it that big of a deal breaker for ladies that he's he's shorter than they are? I mean, I know, like, what are probably the romantic comedy things. This dude's gotta be some kind of tall fella.

But like, I mean, honestly, I I've seen some pretty rough and tumble dudes find ladies to date. Right? And so I can't imagine that the bar is completely out of the realm for this man to meet a woman that can dig on his personality, generosity, and overall comedy. Go to the racetrack. The racetrack. Is that because of the jockeys are there? Yeah. I assume people who like jockeys will be there. So you're so so it's not technically lying, but you're trying to pass yourself off as if you're a jockey No. No. Or jockey type people. And if they're willing to date a jockey who are generally shorter fellas How many women are going, hey, man. Come to the track with me. I'm gonna try to pick up one of them jockeys.

Is that how I have it? I don't know. I don't know the world. Hey. Before we let it go, if it I I'm just now I'm interested on the complaint line. Ladies, is is under five? Is that too low? Is this way out of bounds? Yeah. Or is that, like, is it just is it does it feel super arbitrary or, like, what do think? Judging from the amount of people I've met in this world, I can't imagine that there is any arbitrary line of physical any characteristics that

won't allow someone to date you. You think everything can be overcome? Yes. I think everything can Yeah. Be Okay.

I there has to be a couple of other things going on here, friend. How old is he? 40? In his forties. Yeah. Late forties. Well, maybe he feels like the online dating is the only Yeah. The only racket. Maybe he's tried living in the real world and he's not having it. It's still not a good reason to jump off the pool though. Right? It's like saying these vitamins aren't working. I'm moving over to heroin. Right? There's just no reason to give up on the vitamins.

Stick with them. So now I'm curious. I guess I would maybe if I were him, I put five into five foot and see what happened. Ben goes with the straight lies. I'm not well, no. I didn't say you have to lie to the ladies, I guess. That's what you're lying on the application. I'm willing to amend. So but I it's just fits the filter. So if you will go up and update your if you update your height to five foot even, do you go from zero matches to 20? It'll give you an understanding as to whether height is really the problem.

Okay. So you wanna do an experiment. So you take up the height to two inches, an inch, whatever. Get yourself get yourself above the algorithm, fire it out there, and see if it does any good. I think now that's just more because I'm interested in anything else. Yeah. May maybe the real problem is that you like anchovies. People I love the anchovies. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. They're like, hands on to the onto the the knock of this thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's the the misunderstood anchovy.

I I well, it's a good point though, is that, like, you assume it's short. Because maybe you're self conscious about being short anyway. But like, maybe you also love cats and no one else loves cats. Or the combination of your shortness They're highly unlikely. Right? Ain't no one want he's gotta be You think it's you think it's height, definitely. No. I don't think it has anything to do with the height. I think he's he's he's not interesting to be around. Or maybe he's maybe he's actually,

and this would impact your live reactions to folk, is that where people women don't tend to find a lack of confidence appealing. Yeah. That's true. They find they like confident confident men, regardless of what they're swagging around with, tend to be wrong. Short.

Yeah. That's true. The chip on your shoulder is probably not helping. Yeah. Probably won't like me. So so what's the what's the roll up of the advice? I mean, how do you tell someone, like, have more confidence? You know that doesn't work. Maybe he needs a life coach. Maybe he needs us to life coach him. Yeah. I think we could do it. Yeah. Dan will dress him. I'll show him how to grow a beard. I'll take him to the racetrack. Yeah. Alright.

We'll get that. We're good. We solved this particular Well, I never feel like we've been so stone cold not able to offer anything helpful to this man. Well, mean, so I I think Dan's Dan's advice is salient. So a maybe if you're being filtered out by online dating, here's the thing, if that's the thing, if it's an inch, let's say it's an inch, just do the experiment. Let's say it's just an inch that matters. Yeah. Is that, like, I think that should otherwise validate that this is not the platform for you to find people. Yeah. It's arbitrary. And so, like, maybe you're gonna have to get out more. Find go to places where

things that you that you would do that you're interested in. Maybe it's more than you would than normal, but, like, that's where you're gonna find people that you have connections with. Actually, what did I see the there's a recommendation that, like so you go on this thing, you create a fake profile

as if you're a lady looking for oh, wait. This is not gonna work. No. This isn't isn't gonna work. It was a way I saw someone suggest that this is way to make friends. Is it like, let's say, you need to you wanna meet young,

ladies in your town, and you're a young woman too, and you don't have any friends, you just moved. And so you create a fake profile for a dude that you would find appealing, have all these matches with these young ladies that are on there, schedule a time when they're supposed to, like, that they all show up at the same place, but they don't know that. They all think they're meeting this guy. You show up too. The guy doesn't show and you're just like, well, this guy's a real jerk. It's too bad we ended up here. Anyway, you wanna hang out for a drink? Wow. That's an over the top ruse. And make for and because you know that, like, the assumption is is that your, your qualities will match. Because you're all looking and and wanting to date the same guy. And so, like, maybe you'll get along as friends. I mean, it's not the worst. I mean, sometimes you gotta think outside the box, you know, and that's not so bad. That seems like a lot of work. It is a lot of work though. I mean, if you need friends. Okay. What's what's the advice? Segler's advice is, lying would be neither helpful nor appropriate.

Okay. Because the person you met would then be inclined to wonder what else you were lying about. On an inch though? You think an inch is at Leggler do it? They're not gonna tell right off the crack whether you are one in one or two inches short. Someone tells me they're six two, I just believe them. Yeah. Everything's an approximation. It's gonna come up later. I mean, it may be it may be harmful. I I agree I agree you don't wanna start off with a deceit, but like, I mean, on a good day, can you be fine? Tell them you measure in the kings. They won't know what that means. Say I use the king's measurements. I do cubits. I'm five I'm five one in the king's measurements. Dear late mother once told me, quote, smart women measure their men from the eyebrows up, not the hairline down. And it's true. Does that mean they only care whether the man has a head of hair or not? Because I feel like I got weeded out. Smart women measure their men from the eyebrows up, not the hairline down.

Wow. Is it is it supposed to mean like a brain? Like as it is his brain or his face? I don't I don't like that advice. Some of the most brilliant charming men I know are short and it doesn't make them less attractive. I can't believe we're allowed to call people short. I feel like that's culturally offensive. Yeah. I do wonder though. I mean, are they that short? Because I mean, that's short. That's a short fella. You may have better luck if you're introduced to women by people who know you, relatives, friends, friends of friends, etcetera. You can also do a search online to see which sites have better results for shorter people. Some dating sites and apps even cater to short people. Shortpeopledating.com.

Don'tgetshortwithme.com. What's the matter with you? I don't make that it doesn't matter what they would have said. I'd have come up with something pithy. I think it's really great that my filter is working right now and yours isn't. Yeah. Dang.

Know. I wanna note that. I'm in the most entertaining days when neither of you are showing any filtering control. Hey. Thanks for listening to live from The Path. Hey. I don't maybe maybe this is unfair advice. I don't I don't know. Maybe are you a short maybe you're a short feller, and you've gone through something like this where this felt like, guess, question one, has it been a barrier for you? It probably certainly is.

And It probably certainly is. That's terrible. I didn't even say anything. It's not good. It's not good. You just have the words flow out of your face. I don't know how you know how you landed a woman. And and, like, how did you overcome? Was it something that felt like it had to be overcome in your relationship? I don't I'm just kind of interested, I guess. Because maybe maybe we've not been sensitive in this topic and should be more so. Or

maybe we should be firmer with this man that he just needs to get on get on a horse and I mean, go out and do the things and pick up the right ladies. Yeah. I'm sticking with my original advice. I think you should get off the online dating, meet people in person, and, like, get outside your comfort zone. Right? Like, go to a go to a, I don't know, a church that you haven't been to or a dance club you haven't been to or visit three grocery stores on the prowl. I don't know. You're gonna have to put some effort into this thing. Right? Like, I I you're gonna have to do better than you're doing. The the thought of an online dating site, if you sit back in your Grundies waiting luxuriously at your house for someone to pick you, I mean, this the best we have to go into the dating world anymore. Yeah. Hey, man. I'm gonna hang out at my place. Although, Mike, think about it this way. So, like, let's say if you if you weren't married and you were looking to to find find love in the modern times, like, would you be running into ladies? I think I would just do what I would regularly do and hopefully something came up. So it's like you got you you hope she's a gas station woman? Yeah.

I think I think you wanna move to Hollywood because I've noticed through the years that, like, all these TV stars are, like, super short.

That's true. Yeah. You'll see like this giant guy and I'll think, man, this guy's a monster and he's like two inches shorter than me. I think Tom Cruise is like five four or something like, he's just not very tall. All very short. Yeah. And I'm like, so they'll just take you a movie star. See, that's it, friend. You're four inches away from a cruise. Yeah. You're not that far out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Us six foot regulars got nothing. But you That's right. We're running the mill. Yeah. We're the giants in Hollywood. They stamp us out at a mill like we're nothing special. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for listening to Life in the Path. We do appreciate it. We do hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, if you wouldn't mind leaving us a rating on iTunes, Podcast Edict, or whatever wherever you're taking the podcast in, we'd love to or Amazon, we'd love to be able to I just see that feedback. It's helpful. Also, if you got anything good to say positive or negative, we'd love to hear it. Call the Bob Eisenhower complaint line, (515) 517-0085.

That's call or text (515) 517-0085. Like I said, we're always super encouraged even if it's a critique of the show, just to know that folks are listening and that you took the time. That's a real blessing to us. So we very much appreciate that. We do plan to be here next week. So in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Past.