Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the Pathway Hey, you're with us surviving the path. We're coming to the Pathway studio here in Johnson Proper.

It's lovely to be with you, on this, whatever. It's nice to be with you. Here's what we're gonna let's get right in on this thing. The stuff we're gonna cover this week. Deconstruction seems to be haunting Mike. He's got a deconstruction topic. I feel like like every week, every other week. No. Why is this thing hanging on you? Be because it's it's nebulous. Right? And and, like, it's a it's a bunch of folks that, like, are seem to be struggling with their faith. Right? And, like and either giving up on it or questioning it, and, like, I I struggle with the reaction that, like, that we don't like questions, even really hard questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? You know? And but then on the other hand, like, they tend to do it in, like, a super public

look at me kind of way, which turns me off anyway. You know? And so then I I don't know quite what to make of it. Like, it's usually more how high profile people, and then they turn it into a a little mini throne of theirs, and then that bothers me. But then again, like, I've heard people struggling with their faith, people that I I I know and love. Right? And, like, they're they're asking almost the same questions. They're just not doing it in such a self glorifying type of way. And so, anyway, I I just it it just bothers me when, like, people start talking about, deconstruction and and, like, I I don't like the terminology for one. And two, I I don't like the instant horrible reaction, I think, that usually comes out. But then again, don't like the self glorification that comes from the folks that are generally doing it. And so Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I it was just something I was thinking about, especially after we were going through this list. Yep. You know? And I'm like, I I don't know. Okay. So we're gonna touch back on it, on a thought that you had this week related to deconstruction.

First, we're gonna finish off our list. So we got, halfway through the list of, the this this was a list from, Jim Palmer who said he was a pastor at the largest church in North America, and he said he made 25 mistakes. And so last week, we covered, putting church over community, putting orthodoxy over love, putting certainty over wonder, putting teaching over conversation, putting polished over real, putting explanations over empathy, putting answers over questions, putting membership over friendship, putting prayer over actions. Did we get is that all we got here? Putting services over self care. Yeah. We got through that one. Yeah. Wait. So we're gonna we're gonna pick up and see if we can finish off the list this week. We'll talk about a little bit more about deconstruction, and we'll do some advice from Dear Life from the Path and

And we're good. And we're good. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. Before we get too too farther much farther down the road, I do wanna let you know of a new sponsor that we have on the show. It's Bob Eisenhower with the Eisenhower team, and he sponsors the Life From The Path complaint line. He's not aware of this particular sponsorship nor his name being on the complaint line, but I just wanted to bring his name back in front of you because we think Bob is a good dude. And when we were actually on legitimate radio and hustling up sponsors, we cycled through a number of, like, secondary sponsors, but Bobby Dunn had us covered. Yeah. He he kept the show afloat. We we paid for the airtime because you had to pay to be on the air, and, and he was he was rock solid. Even even, like, Ricky my Ricky Dick billing platform. Like, I'm the only guy who sent him a bill he had to get out of his personal credit card and pay. I think everybody else just sent an invoice to the front office, but Right. Bob paid our bill anyway. Accept POs here. So, I'm putting him in, as as if he's just a brand new, link them on, and give him show him some life from the path of love. Call Bob Eisenhower with Eisenhower team. They're easy to work with, hard to beat. I do forget, what his actual phone number is. Yeah. If you type in Eisenhower He's in my phone as Bob Eisenhower. Does that help you guys? Yeah. I think that'll work. I'll say, know what? Why don't you hit up the complaint line with your deets, and I'll text you his contact card. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you need to get ahold of Bob Eisenhower, then, you know, this is the time for he's a realtor. Buy buy and sell in houses. Bob's your man. (515) 517-0085. That's the life from the path Bob Eisenhower complaint line. Call or text, and if you need Bob's phone number, we'll get it you. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think I don't think his investment in our program has netted him dollar 1. Not one. I mean, Mike's bought a house with him. I guess I bought a house with him. I mean, one in, like, you know, twenty years. Yeah. Yeah. So I So I mean, he's really playing the long game on this thing. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, if you wanna if you if you here's the deal. If you love the show

and, you really wanna do something kind for us, you should sell your house right now. Yeah. Just decide to sell it and say, look. Honey, we're gonna take one for the team, and and we gotta sell it, and we gotta use Bob Eisenhower. Done. Okay. Alright. Here's the back half of the list. Things he said, mister Palmer said he mistakes he made. Putting style over substance.

Yeah. That's dumb. That is a legit mistake. Yeah. That's just a flat out mistake, Nathaniel. Yeah. I agree. Okay. Mistake. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that needs a bunch of commentary. Now the style the style over substance thing, do you I I mean, you think he's referring to, like, a slick and polished, services and whatever? Yeah. I yes. I do think that's what he's saying. But, like, and I do think that is a risk.

I I I do wanna be cautious that you we don't come off and say, look, the only way to be authentic is to be crappy. Yeah. Right? Like like, hey, this is the same way. And this is odd. Like, my situation is interesting because, like, as a pastor of house church, like, I there are no I don't pre do. I don't pre write anything out or whatever. But, like, just showing up and going, well, I we'll see what the Lord says today after having if I don't read it during the week, if I don't think of the questions people might have, don't bother looking into background or anything and just go, well, you know, we'll see how it goes. Same thing, like, don't think your worship band if you're gonna have a worship band, you should do it to the glory of the lord. Do it well. Let people use talents that god has given them to, you know, do good things. And so, I it doesn't mean that you do it crappy.

Just just make it worthwhile. Like, do something that is of substance, not, that just, tickles the eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The next one was putting appearance over authenticity. Don't be a fraud. Wait. The the the the the premise that we talked about last week was in what ways would this, and what's what what would have to be true for this criticism to be valid?

And it was putting appearance over authenticity? Yeah. Yeah. Well, may maybe it's being willing to, be honest with your sermons how I wanna say sermons or the way that you're teaching, like, misrepresenting yourself as if you don't have struggles too. Right? Like, you know, firing this thing out is like, obviously, once you start following Jesus, it's gonna be nothing but nonstop joy and blessings everywhere and whatever. And, like, that's the you know, that's not true. It's probably more true for us than, most people Mhmm. I would say for people that don't follow Christ. But, like, in general, yeah, there's still gonna be all kinds of hard times. And if you act like there isn't, then people that go through hard times then either doubt the things that you're saying are true about God or doubt that God can be, seen as as true because it's not true in your life. Yeah. Yeah. They either doubt God or they doubt themselves and their relationship with God. Either way, you've you've done that by creating a space where it feels like the frailties of of the human existence

aren't real in the Christian service. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now do you think people are guilty of this? Putting appearance over authenticity? Yeah. Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. I think this is bad. I think this is actually something, and this is not a church size problem. I think, as leaders in churches don't wanna be seen as failing. One, because they worry you might still allow to lead people as a failure. And two, like, they are worried that it tarnishes the name of Jesus. Like, think of all the think of all the the cover ups in church in church scandals. Like, these are people who kept up an appearance over as opposed to being authentic. And, like, when we when I we say authenticity,

I think that's admitting where where you're struggling with things. But I think also, authentically, if you suck, you should come out with that. Like and and serve the Lord authentically and say, look, I I, I don't belong leading or serving people in this way, and so, I should go back to just being a guy who who worships with everybody else. We should find a new dude. Yeah. And I think I and it doesn't necessarily mean, like, you have to be lewd or crass or, you know, like, over showing your hand. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't have to tell the whole congregation all the stuff all the time. You know? Right. But you do need to tell people, know, close to you and around you that can hold you for stuff like that. And then when you preach, once again, like, this is less of a problem if you're not making it about you. You know, like, you're making it about what God's character is and what God does and the way that, like, you saw this when you were 25 and you saw it this way and then you went through a hard time and you saw it a little different. And now maybe you got a little wisdom on you and go, this is what this actually has turned out to look like in my life. Like, that's okay. Yeah. That would at least be showing all sides of the story. But, like,

you know, if the problem with with selling the the images is, like, you know, we we sing the the hymns about the glory of God and all the great things he does and the and the dry bones rattling and things really turning around. And, like, you're like, I still know 10 people in my life. I've been praying for them for ten years. They don't know you. They don't know Jesus at all. Right. Why aren't those bones rattling? You You know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. I like I was just listening to a live cut from some one of the bigger churches was doing a song and, like, you know, halfway through the song, the dude's on the prophecy train. He's like, you know, I I these people are gonna call you. Know? You Like, these things are gonna redeem tonight. You know? I'm like, I've been listening to this song for five days. Is ain't no. This happened once. You know? I'm like, so just be careful. You know what saying? Be careful. Because because once again, like, you can't start prescribing God's timing. You can't prescribe why, God allows, certain things to happen either because of the freedom of a fallen world or, flat out God's got you going through a valley so you see the mountain correctly. You know? And so, like, it's you just have to be careful. And I think it's it's sometimes where when you get pinned down, you know, like, why isn't God doing this or what? You know, someone will ask you is where's God in this whole thing? And and, like, sometimes your answer can be, he's here. I don't know what he's doing, but he is there. You know? And, like, I think we that's hard to be okay with with a hurting person next to you, but it's better than phoning in some kind of ridiculous Yeah. Promise that you Authenticity is always more freeing

than appearance. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Like like you I know this has happened at house church before where Ben's come rolling in and started talking to and he's, yeah, we were having a marital spat out in the car. And I was like, you know, I I mean, I dig on that. Because like, what what other church are you going to where the pastor's like, yeah. Me and my wife are really going at it before this. No way. They're tucking in their shirt saying, no. I've got my tie on.

Welcome to clean clean polished church time. Yeah. And also, like, it's not just him. He was like, you know, I was sitting down in the car a couple weeks ago with Megan. He's he comes rolling up, you having marital spats out here? Were you having a marital spat? No. I don't think so. Okay. But even just the question, it's like, you know, the like, to come into church and know that, like, you don't have to keep up appearances in order for these people to love you. Right. Like, you can come in here and you can be real and things are gonna be okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't stay that way. You can't stay in marital spats. That's right. But,

I mean, you can be real about it. Well, that's that's what I was gonna say. So I think that's the that's the place where the critique could be be well, well applied. I think the risk on the other side of it is that, in all to protect our ability to be real, we don't allow ourselves to be changed. Right? So to say, like, if if if if you got someone who was teaching up there and said, look, this is what we're called to.

Like, I could be a hypocrite about that. I could, but it doesn't make it not true. And so, like, authenticity doesn't mean that you don't still call yourself and other people in the in the righteous name of what God has pointed us to to good and holy things. And so I think that is the that's the risk on the other side is in in order to defend their authentic selves, we refuse to be changed and and and

edified and molded into the selves that God wants us to be. And so you have to have room, to take things like that in humility. And like we actually, we were talking about this in one of our, in the this logic class I'm teaching with some with some high school students. And we're like, you know, the the note one of the key notions of your, ability to to be changed is like, can you hear a can you take in information from a hypocrite and let and allow it to change you? Because, like and frankly, if a number of the kids goes, yeah, my my parents are always telling me to do stuff and they're hypocrites because they do it. I said, let's ignore whether they do it or not. Was it right? We does what they told you good advice? Yes. Was it sound? Yes. Then what does it matter that they're hypocrites about it? Like, they should also learn from the things that they're saying. But, like,

that someone's a hypocrite is not a logical problem. It's just an offense to you. Yeah. And so, anyway, like, it's just to say on the other end of it, I think you need to be authentic about who you are, what you're struggling with, what your community is struggling with, be willing to open up and share because as Nathaniel points out, there's freedom in that. But don't defend your authenticity as if it is where you are to stay because you should authentically be changing where you need to be changing. And that just on the flip side of that coin, if you're sitting on great news that God has been doing things and you're not telling other people, that's a shame on you. Yeah. You know I'm saying? Like, you're watching God do amazing things, and you're just sitting there holding your tongue. People are like, what are we praying about? And, like, you got cool, great things God has been doing, and you don't say anything. You that's terrible. Yeah. Stop doing that. Yeah. Edify it with other people. Let us be excited too. Yeah. You know I'm saying? That God is moving. Not necessarily in your situation, but, like, even if it's your neighbor or your cousin or whatever. You're like, listen to this cool thing I heard God did. You're like, yeah. I wanna hear that. That's the stuff we wanna be well, that's authentic stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Alright. The next one was,

put putting functionality over beauty. I don't That's a real hippie thing to say. Know what's going on with this. I don't know what that means exactly. Like, I I is he trying to say that there's beauty in the in the in the mess? Right? There's there's beauty in a little bit of, of of rawness opposed to What yeah. What do you mean by function like, what does it mean functionality? Yeah. I don't know. It's a function. It's a it's it's it's it's something. It's fill fulfilling a purpose. It's accomplishing something versus beauty. I this

I don't I I don't know. I don't wanna overspeak on this one. I don't understand what's getting at here. I'm gonna I'm gonna parlay as well. Nathaniel, do you have any thoughts? No. Other than, like, I'm trying to think through, like, what what would a megachurch have that's functional that would, decrease on beauty? I mean, I suppose if you run up dudes through classes or ladies through classes by the by the number and not by the not by the perp the person. You know I'm saying? Maybe you miss out on the amazing thing. Like, maybe God's doing a really cool thing in Susan's life, but you would never know it because you put him through the bible one zero one class, and you're like, we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about the the Pentateuch, and I want your answers on the Pentateuch. That's it. That would be the only I that that'd be the only sniff of what I can grab. Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. But and that the ring's closer to some of the other ones. Like, not quite style over substance, but, like, function you could say functionality over substance.

Like, did we did we run people through the thing? Did we become efficient, and lacked our ability to become I had a beautiful seems like a real stretch. But, you know Yeah. It's purposely comparing two things to make one sound like functionality is Ugly. Ugly. Yeah. Like the janitor's ugly. All the stuff the janitor does, ugly. That's right. And, like, having a predesigned room where kids go, like, that's ugly. And, like, play like, buying your communion wafers 10,000 at a time because it's cheaper. Like, like, all these things that make logical sense are now all of sudden a tool of the devil to pull you away from beauty. Like, that that I don't know if he meant that or not, but this one's hard to hard to grab. We need the real loaf. Yeah. Yeah. An artisanal an artisanal bread. We need Betty baking it every week. Betty. Alright. Let's let's go then putting numbers over oh, sorry. Putting religion over spirituality. Well, here's the thing. Religion has gotten a real bad rap. Yeah. For sure.

Not the religion that, say, James defines, because that's pretty straightforward. But, like, the way that we define religion, heck, even I don't think of it very well. Right? Like, Wait. Yeah. But what do we what do we mean? Is he trying to, like, high church? Because that's what I think when when he says putting religion, like, form and function over

relationship. Yeah. I think it's I think it's to imply, like, high church slash phariseeism. Like I think that's the worst. I struggle with that. Yeah. But, like, I don't even know like, outside of Islam, most

religions are not so so bound. Like, it's a real interesting it's it's an interesting critique against Christianity as a whole. But you're but I I I think I get the point about, like, people who don't know it, if it feels like your religion is go and do the things. If it's a schedule, really. I would I would say, like, it's similar to that conversation we were having earlier this week where religion is

telling truths about God without the heart of God. Right? That's how people view religion. Yeah. Right? Like, here's a fact. Here's a thing that it is true, but you said it like a complete jerk without God's heart. And so, like, it just seems like you're following a religion, not a not a god who loves and interacts and is full of grace and mercy. So so he says putting let's so let's let's follow and this is a quality critique, religion over spirituality. So what what would spirituality is nebulous to me. Like, if we say, like, you're

putting things together that I'm not okay with us putting together, like, hey. It's almost saying, look, if you follow the the the the bible versus holy spirit as an example Right. That's garbage. The holy spirit inspired the bible. And so, like, that's the holy spirit versus holy spirit. The bible is spirituality. And so what do we mean? Well, may I mean, maybe it's a dichotomy that actually shouldn't. Is that what we're getting to? Right? It shouldn't even exist. Yeah. And but but it does. But it does. There are people that lean very heavy on true things without God heart, and then there are people that that lean very heavy on, I don't like to be bound by the way that scriptures are interpreted between this and this and this and this guy,

but I just like to let, you know, the holy spirit or Jesus flow through me and and steer me as I as I Yeah. Walk this earth, which is not bound by any truths. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I I function exclusively under holy indigestion. Yes. And yeah. Okay. So What about the well, as an example, like, you were talking to that fella from the church around here who was fighting with the elders for months on end. I'm just changing like the the order of the service. That's right. Right? That's right. And so like that that might be an example of this where where you're taking something that maybe seems like religion because it's it's in order and and has a this you know, it's the way we've always done it. And Yeah. And

doesn't allow for Oh. Freedom. Well yeah. Yeah. It'd be yeah. And think about it like like the way that we we we do our our normal Sunday services. Right? Like, okay. We're gonna do three tunes, and we're gonna do a prayer, then we're do two tunes, and then it's time for the communion, and then it's time for the worship or time for the sermon, and then one tune at the end. And, right, if we say anything outside of that is unholy. Right? Like, the spirit moves somebody to to go on a rant and talk and and and and and preach to the people straight from the crowd, and we're quelling that and going, no. No. No. No. No. That's not in the service, Bob. Sit down. Right? Like, that's probably no good. Yeah. Which is unfortunate that any of that stuff is being represented by the word religion. Which you that's just like that's just like humans human stubbornness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I I if yeah. I I think religion really has like, the word just has a bad connotation to it in our culture for sure. Yeah. If someone says, hey. I'm pretty religious. The problem isn't. It's that someone would say that. And they think and they have some level of pride in it

implies that they're probably real sticklers. Stick in the muds. So I I had a guy, accuse me of being religious, and it wasn't in a bad connotation. You know? But, like, I was asked a question, somebody's name, and I'm like, man, that sounds like a name of a saint saint something. And I said the guy's name, and he goes, well, shouldn't you know? Aren't you religious? And I go, I'm not Catholic. I don't know I don't know all the the saints or whatever. I said, you know, I was just making conversation, but, like, just assumed because of the way that I carried myself, like, they don't they don't see like, you're a follower of Yahweh or you believe in Jesus. Right? Like Right. You're just religious. Like, you fall in a bucket of people that believe a thing. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Boy, think of all the distinctions that you would make in your mind about just what you know about what other people leave believe who who follow Jesus or claim to follow Jesus, and then how much outside of these types of circles, no one has any idea what you're talking about. Yeah. That happened to me recently where we I was talking to a guy about, like, meal trains

after somebody has, like, a surgery or something like that. And he's like, I have never heard of this in my entire life. I was like, maybe I mean, I thought it was, like, ubiquitous. Like, everybody did it. Yeah. And, apparently, it's it's a church Jesus people. It's a church thing. Yeah. I was talking to another guy. He he grew up in the church, and I was like, hey, Derek. You are you familiar with the meal? He's like, yeah. You get the ladies together. You know? Get everybody get a meal. You come over and clean the person's house. And I was like, I'm I'm not having to experience that one. But Yeah. Yeah. Clean person's house. Yeah. Derek Derek was saying they they they come over and clean. And What shirts he go to? I'm gonna go visit. I think it's Feeling under the weather. He said it was predominantly African American,

and it was kind of a mix between I don't remember the the the name for the the denomination, but it Episcopalian. It will he said it was, like, like, a a combination of Pentecostal and Baptist. That's wild times. Bapticostal. Yeah. Yeah. Bapticostal. Boy, I bet there's a minor fight in there.

Okay. He said, mistake was putting numbers over faces. Yeah. You jerk. Yeah. You you should be ashamed of yourself for doing that. Hey. He's trying to repent. No. He's not. Okay. He's trying to accuse other people of other things. He's just doing it in a sly boot camp. He's like, oh, look at me. Poor me. I neglected to put the toilet seat down, and I peed all over the seat as did all of you. Like, actually, that's one of the that's one of the things I struggle with when it comes to some of the deconstruction stuff is it always comes with a load. Like, they're finally free of something that you pour saps are still underneath. Yeah. It there's there's just like an attitude about it. Yeah. And I I I'm gonna save my commentary for a follow-up discussion. Yeah. Okay. So this I think this could be true. In fact, I think this often is true. So it's a right critique. But, like, stop it. I I don't like, this isn't even, you're not even protecting unless you're trying to say like, people are in the risk of trying to protect the wrong thing. Like, they the evidence of success,

lacks human human humanity, and instead, our institutional measure targets. Actually, this was, this is part of the crux, I think, of the rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast, is you start to measure this is always true when you start to grow things is you stop measuring the tangible kind of salt of the earth thing. Hey. We as a company wanna make a difference. We wanna help the little man, and we wanna provide a great product at low prices. And after you get two or three years in and now you're dealing with 10,000 customers over 16 states, and now you're not counting

did Earl get his seed this week. Right? Now you're counting, did the trucks deliver on time? What's our relationship with the with the warehouses? You're not you're counting different things. You stop counting the thing on the that you actually started caring about at the beginning. That's funny because the bigger you get, the more that you move on the defense. Like, the more you're you're you're you're trying to keep the train moving opposed to make sure that the train is actually going where you wanted it to go. That's right. That's right. That's what we were talking about. We were talking about, some work environments before and, like, the measure of success isn't did we do a great job? Did we have the impact in individuals' lives that we expected? It's were our hammer's swinging and trucks moving. Did the did the church service start? And you're gonna count how many bodies are in there, but the and how many and, like, a baptism. But, like, boy, when you're when baptisms are not, like, a personal celebration in its account, like, if you baptized 200 people in any given day, I'm suspicious of it. Because it feels like the truck's moving and and the hammer's swinging. But, like, these people, like, do they do they meet Jesus here, or do they get caught up in a process?

Or did they get caught up in a moment because you said something real whiz bang before you invited him up? And, like, it's not that people can't get baptized spontaneously. We've done it. It's great. It's super awesome. But, like, when the numbers start getting so high, I get real anxious that did did we introduce somebody to Jesus here, or did they just get caught up in an assembly line of which it was really exciting Yeah. To do. And so, yeah, I think this is totally a risk. I should knock it off. Let's see. Putting

holiness over humanity. I don't know if that How when when could this be a right critique? Well, I mean, I suppose if you're judging people who don't know Jesus, then yeah. Yes. I think that's the right Like like, saying the parts of parts of humanity is too dirty for me. I shall not be around it because I'm holy. Or if you're talking to somebody specifically and saying, here's all the ways that you're failing. Here's all the ways that you're not holy. You know? And and, like, instead of going, I hear all the things that you've come from and all the things that you've experienced. Let me tell you something about Jesus real quick. Yeah. You know, like and introducing him to the god that we're trying to show the standard where the standard of holiness comes from. And so, like, if you go straight to here's all the tick boxes on why you suck,

yeah, that's that's putting that's putting the holiness over over humanity. Yeah. You know? But, like, yeah. I that that's where it could be a a right critique, and I I I think to some extent that, we could be guilty of this. Right? Like, and that's a that's a human problem. Right? Because at the end of the day, I I know something that is life changing and and awesome, and you do not.

And, instead of being overflowing with, I just want you to know about this. Right? Humanity tends to use it as a benchmark of why I'm better than you. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a human problem. Because like, this is where I struggle with the list is it's not particularly thoughtful. God says, we and we were talking about this on a show recently, or maybe it was an old show. You be holy like I am holy. And, like, but it it that's not there there's a if you look at it

in the right way, it's not a you suck because you're not like me holy. It's God saying, I see you that way. Now live up to it. Like, it's an encouragement up, not a squash down. Mhmm. And so, like, where God calls us of her holiness, how could that be detrimental to humanity? It cannot be. Which means the only way that this is wrong is if we misunderstand holiness. Yeah. Or if we I think that's what he's doing. I think this is he's he's reiterating the appearance over

authenticity. Yeah. Where he's saying, okay, it's it's a false holiness. Yeah. It's a a squeaky clean shoe showing up to church with your tie on rather than Fighting with your wife in the in the parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is human. Yes. That's right. So like, but it's the you know, the the the crux of it or the theme in some of these, a lot of these so far is,

is lack lacking humility. It's just there's an arrogance to these things. There's a human power. There's a human dominance. There's a human I I don't know. Don't know other word to use for it, but, like, it's not humble service. It's not feet washing. It's it's something else than that. But what what we're using that I I struggle here because I don't want you to misdefine words that God has intended for for quality use. Yeah. Like, go out and be holy. That is not, I would not choose humanity over holiness. I serve humanity in holiness.

By setting myself apart in service in the way that other people don't, I should serve humanity in its greatest need. And and and maybe that's the crux of the list is is basically is just because you put two words together and acted like they were at odds with each other, either shows that your lack of understanding of what those words actually mean and how they're to be put into practice, Or you're literally just, pumping up a drama cannon and acting like it has to be one or the other, and that's not necessarily true at all. Yeah. I mean, I do see think I mean, you probably could've if you're going for thematic stuff, you probably could've cut this list down to, like, four or five instead of the 25. But you are grab that's the problem. I'd grab words and using words to communicate a broad thrust of something without giving quality attention to the words you're using and why they are supposed to be what they are. Like, actually, could you could you explain the whole list so far and just go, yeah, we're missing we're misapplying or misunderstanding the words of the Lord. If if if these critiques are true, then there's a failure in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Then he says, putting accountability

over acceptance. When when would this be a right critique? It is a right critique when, once again, when somebody doesn't know Jesus. Right? Like, we we, hold people accountable to things that we've agreed to be held accountable to. Right? Like any any person I've ever been accountable to, him and I both have said, this is what I want you to hold me accountable to. Right? But, like, without that, set in place, then, yeah, you're trying to hold people accountable to things that they don't know anything about.

Yeah. This is tough because of the word acceptance. If you if we mean, I should accept that people who don't know Jesus aren't going to act like people who know Jesus, then yes, you certainly should. But if it means we should otherwise be, find it acceptable or be satisfied

with people's thoughts or beliefs that are detrimental to them or to the world around us, and I should have that over a level of, accountability for people's actions, I don't know that I can buy into that. I'm not even sure this is even a Christianity problem, this particular thing. Like, the the notion of, our how much how much should we just accept that people will do what they want or be what they want,

even if it is harmful to them? Well, as people who follow, Jesus, I think the answer is, not at all. Right? Like, we call people to the thing. Once again, I know a thing, and it's life changing and awesome. And, like, how much do I have to not like you to to not call you into that? You know? And so, like and and and, I mean, obviously, people argue from this standpoint all the time. It's like, just wanna be accepted for who I am. And, like, god sees you exactly for who you are, and, actually, you're not it right now. This is not what god created you to be. Right. It's not the place that god, you know, had set apart from you, and it's not the joy and freedom that he promised. And so, like, just because you're willing to accept less doesn't mean that he is, and it also means that I'm not willing to accept less, just because you are. Yeah. But yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think this is I think it's it's,

there's a humility issue in here, that, like, one, you weren't ordained the accountability man for everybody in the world. That's a relationship issue. You bet you better be the right person in the relationship. However, I think the boundary on the other side is that, like, if some guy showed up into my yard and started drinking out of the bird bath that had, a cat deucer in there Mhmm. And, like, he goes, look, I just like it. Like, I'm still gonna mention it. Yeah. Sir, you know, I think you shouldn't be drinking that. It's bad for you. That's right. If you want a cat deuce, I just I can't be part of it. So you're gonna have to do it somewhere else.

So you're going down the road a piece. And so, like, I I think this this notion of acceptance like, I get it. It rubs into some very sensitive areas. I understand. But, like, I think the the this is too shallow of a critique. Yeah. I well, I I I think what the actual critique is and where it plays out in in in functionality throughout humanity is is people calling, people calling

particular sins to accountability and not people. Right? Like, they they look at they look at a a person and and see their sin and that's what they want to fix. That's what they want to address Yeah. And not actually the person that's doing it. You know, like, they're just says, look, I I don't know anything about you, but I know this is true and I know it needs to stop. And, like, that is true. Yes. It does need to stop. But, like, if you don't know the person at all, right, like, you're you're you're you're more you're more like a like a sin janitor than you are a a priest. That's right. You know, a a a person of peace that wants other people to know Jesus Christ. You just wanna be the guy that scrubbed the sin out. And, like, that ain't that ain't how Jesus did it, and that's not how we're gonna do it. Yeah. Actually, I so I I think that's that's the thing is is, again, that slight nuance on being holy. Do it within people, do I see a human who needs rescue and I am I am enthusiastic

for the chance to introduce them to that path? Or do I see a human who needs rescue and I want them to super duper know that they need rescue. Yeah. And make it very clear how much of a rescue that they need. I think that I think you do like that notice that he he needs rescue as part of both. But, like, are you focusing what's your balance on the definition or or like the the the of what am I pointing out? Actually, the during the I think this was I just released like an older one of the older podcast episodes, and I think this came up there. And it was about Dan was talking about Calvinists. They tend to focus on depravity, which means they tend to focus on sin. Like, their conversations just aren't super hopeful. Yeah. It's a real downer, and they focus on it all the time. Is that part of God's story with humanity? Absolutely, it is. But, like, so is his rescue. Like, that got to be the, like, Christianity spread on the rescue part.

And so you have to tell the full story, but, like, on the balance, are you focusing on encouraging up to meeting Jesus, or are you focusing on discouraging people so that they know how much they needed because they're so bad. Yeah. And I think it's pretty easy to tell as as as time goes on because, like, if if you if you're the sin scrubber,

then you expect pretty instant results and it's your main topic of conversation. But, like, if if if you're presenting a path of rescue, right, like, Jesus will do that and the holy spirit will will work over a time period. Yeah. And, like, if you're only after the sin scrubbing, then you're gonna get real frustrated real quick. And you're not gonna be near patient near patient enough to be with them, the person, as Jesus does the rescue. Because it it's not it's not gonna happen overnight. Right? And that's a and and and, of course, the lord does this in his own time, and you have to be there for the person, not necessarily the sin that you're trying to get rid of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Next one was putting mistake was putting heaven over earth.

I think this is the right critique. If one, I I actually think theology is better, because I do believe our eternity is on a on a rejuvenated earth of which Jesus comes to live amongst, and rule over humanity. And so the notion of, like, I'm busting out of this joint, I think is is is rough theology.

But also, like, not treating people's relationship with Jesus as if it is like an earthly experience. It is. Like, it it's all you know. Like, that's the only thing you know. That's right. Heaven is like a is like a thirty year mortgage to a 21 year old. You know what saying? Where they're like, hey. We're gonna loan you a $108,000, and you're like, whatever. I'll sign you is it a month? Right. I don't I don't understand. Like, you know, it's not like like, even if they would bring a briefcase out with an image of of all this money, you'd be like, yeah. Okay. Now on the other hand, that same 21 year old will drop $20 out of his pocket while walking down the street, and it's the biggest thing that ever happened to him. Like, we gotta get that 20. We gotta have it. But the $108 they're borrowing from the bank, completely unimaginable. They can't they can't take it in. Yeah. So yeah. So, like, I I think it's it's a it's something to look forward to most definitely.

But, like, you do run the risk of of painting gray over human hurt, real human need, real human joy to be had in good perfect things. Like, think of this. Like, we're we're introduced in scriptures. In the first few chapters, like chapter one, God creates earth and it's good. Like, this is good. God looks down and goes, and he says it's good. This isn't me like, I I couldn't have done that personally. This is the Lord going, I created this, and this is awesome.

And if our main focus is completely bailing from the experience that God was happy with, at least the pictures and and and themes of it, like, I think we're probably missing something. It's almost telling God that, like, get me out of this hellhole. I can't wait to go where you're at. And he's like, I'm coming there. Right. Well and then try to convince somebody that's like, hey. Do you wanna spend eternity with Lord Jesus? Why? Well, it's awesome. I mean, you you say. What do you know? You haven't even been there. Right. You know? And, like so, like and we're saying, look. Experience the god that created you here and now, and then you will look forward even more to eternity. And that is true. Right? But like trying to say, the only basis for you deciding to follow Yahweh or not is based on your your decision on how to behave in the afterlife. You're like, I don't even know this god you're talking about. So I I I don't know. You know? You know, it's even almost let's get back to the theology point. Is that, like, why why do I even care about heaven?

Why why would you why do you care? Because you think they got a sweet sub sandwich shop? Because you think the streets are literally paved with gold, and you think it'd be cool to get your your lower digits on top of some gold? No. Gold is slippery. Like, why do why do I care about heaven? Because I think Yahweh is there. I think Yahweh lives there. Right? I get to walk with the Lord in heaven. And so now let's go back post resurrection Jesus, and he says, I send a helper. The real like, part of the entity of of the godhead now lives within you. You walk with Jesus here.

So, like, what are we pining for? Now the the there are things there are things like the elimination of human corruption and sickness and death and all the like, there are certainly things. But, like, the thing that I really want to be true, I have glimpses of of here. And so, like, can we at least make sure we give the right heft to that reality? And if God came like, Jesus shows to rescue the world, and our job is to take that rescue into the world, boy, I feel like we got important stuff to do instead of sitting at home going, boy, I just can't wait to heaven. Yeah. These gold streets are gonna be whiz bang. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Boy, let's see. We're popping right through. Putting meetings over relationships.

Yeah. That's obviously. Meetings are the worst. Mhmm. I mean, it doesn't depend like, we're meeting now. Yeah. I mean, it it It doesn't feel like We bet here. It's it smells like he's saying, like, if we had to church discipline a guy or something. Or even just like church board. We'll have a we're we're gonna meet, you know, the third Sunday of the month, and we're gonna talk about the Do you really think they showed up and, like, refused? Like, were real callous about it? Like, hey. Welcome to the church board meeting. Hi, Jim. You shut your mouth. We don't do that in here. No. We're conducting business. Well no. But, yeah, I mean, like, of all the most ridiculous church fights I've ever heard of, they're always around some stupid meeting item. Right? Like, hey. We need to order new pews. We're gonna get blue. I don't want blue. Argue with people unless you put them in the same room. Right? But

that's the thing. It's like your relationship with Brian who insists on the orange pews, and now you're, like, letting it split you up between your relationship with him because over a stupid meeting agenda thing. Yeah. Okay. So, like, this is really saying put relationships over, I don't know, individual preference or

pride or any all kinds of things like that. Yeah. Like, it's not really a meeting. Here's the deal. It's like, I I interact, I've been in, many kinda, like, top level, like, executive style meetings, for my for my also job. And, like, there's all kinds of glad handed in relationships in there. And not even, like, BS golf tough. Like, these are the guy oh, hey, Brian. How's it going? How's your family? Yeah. Hey. Is your is your how's your son doing at college? Or, like, some kids got his kid on a on a college basketball team. People ask that guy all the time, man. Yeah. I saw him last night. Yeah. He he got 15 points, three fouls, heck of an elbow to the face. Yeah. Like, like, the things that you would think would be super dry in corporate America, like, they're people having relationship type of stuff. Yes. They roll it up and they ask the questions and they go forth and figure out the answers. But, like, I just I I just wonder that this one is is doesn't seem well formed.

Because, like, people are just like just like the one of the opening ones was putting church over community, and I said that we said that the church is community. You can have meetings and relationships. It's just all all meetings are in agreement to show up to a place and talk with people. Yeah. So okay. I think you guys are right, That's probably what he's getting at. Putting reputation over risk. In which places, right critique, should you put, be more risky? It seems like the same question as the polished over. Like, same thing. Same same. Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, maybe maybe as we think about Christians, do we get concerned who we're going who we're seen with, What type of folk are hanging out in an I think it's a pharisee. Look. Your your Jesus hangs out with sinners and tax collectors. Yeah. You know, right? And and and our unwillingness most of the time to hang out with our modern day sinners and tax collectors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or like Even on a casual meeting. That's the thing. It's like it'll be completely acceptable to the pharisees if you were trying to lead them to Jesus. Right? Yeah. But what if you were on a soccer team?

You know? What if you were out to dinner? Just a regular out to dinner with them. Yeah. You know I'm saying? Just just regular doing life. Well, like, well, if you're not specifically hanging out with them for the purpose of leading them to Christ at that meeting, then, yeah, your reputation is tarnished. That's foolish. How many hail Yahwehs do I have to say for this to be an evangelism tact Correct. As opposed to eating us some seminary? And it does it really does. Like, that's a that it it's a it's a thought. Like, it's a buried thought. I don't know that anybody would, like, vocalize it, but right? But if you're if you're hanging out with a x group of people and you're not specifically trying to evangelize to them that day, then you've joined them. Right? Are you being nice to them? Right? Now they're gonna think that their their their sinful life is okay Yeah. Because you're being nice to them. Yeah. Right? It's the exact same thing Jesus was accused of and like, yeah, I I think we can be guilty of this. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think that's right. So is there a place where this goes too far, I suppose, where you start compromising it's back to the holiness question. Just because you want to be able to think think of the triple x church work. Like, just because you're trying to find a means to introduce,

people who are in the porn pornography industry to meeting Jesus, there is a limit to which you should engage. That's right. Don't visit the set Right. As an example. You wait outside or something. Yeah. Yeah. Don't be an actor. Yeah. Don't be don't offer to run the camera. Yeah. Right? Like These are Don't be like, hey. I go get lunch for everybody. I I might be a little far too. Let me help with script or whatever. Like, this is not you. That's the stuff. You're usually like, but how do I get close to these people? Outside of the script. You do it outside. So, like yeah. Yeah. Just, you know, don't don't there is there is a there is a, where you say any risk is acceptable. I don't think I don't think that's true. That's certainly not on a personal level. There may be other people who are attuned for work that you're not attuned for, and you should know that. But, like, also, you don't compromise what is actually true and things that God has called good and holy.

You don't sacrifice that so that you can take as a risk, just to otherwise try to accomplish something. Well, I guess but the the point is, like, you whether you're worried about your reputation. Don't worry about your reputation. Just walk holy and faithfully with Jesus. And then that that involves taking all kinds of risks. Mhmm. And I think that's fine. Okay. Let's see. Putting superiority over humility.

You should've you should've started with that one, and this list would've been a lot smaller. Yeah. Right on. Like, this is a this is a this is a sermon on the mount business. Like, you're supposed to be humble and you're not. Yeah. Okay. Putting charisma over compassion. I'm sorry. The thing that popped into my mind is like, hey, pastor. My my uncle just died, and you're like, hey. Like, but did not sound good? Yeah. Service to you. We got the facilities for you. We'll

get to Foglass. We've got an uncle weeping room right over there. Super comfy. We'll bring you some granolas. I don't know what I I don't know what situation brought on this comparison. I would if I was to to think of a of a of an example, it'd be that Mars Hill podcast where, you know, you got the guy with all the charisma and the and the big yell loud yelling, and then you got the elders who he's just, you know, boots to the side Yeah. Right. Just for being like dudes trying to do their do their duty. Yeah. And it's like, no compassion there whatsoever

just because you're the fella. Right. Right. So it seems like you're comparing two different things. Once again, it's an odd pairing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're we don't have to spend any more time on it. Alright. Put in the afterlife over the here life. That's the same thing as the heaven over earth. Got it. Getting lazy. Putting doctrine over reason. Well, okay. Does doctrine have a bad connotation to it outside of Christian circles?

Well, yeah. Because I think people take it in the same way they take in religion as if it's a blind acceptance of information with refusal to listen to anything else, which is the, I think, the reason part. I I I don't know. I probably had this conversation 50 times, like, in especially in youth group stuff, you know, but, like, I I don't see that doctrine and reason are fighting. No. Right? Like, they're not they're not at odds with each other, and, like, it just depends on on which side that you believe that you're trying to bolster. If you see them as equals and complementary and complementary to each other,

then actually, I'm not trying to bolster either one. I just say, yeah. Both make sense. Yeah. Well, like, it's it's weird because a lot of people that critique what the traditional Christian beliefs and say, well, that's reasonable. We've kinda moved beyond those things. These are fanciful stories. Nobody was swallowed by a fish. Right? Still cling to the to Jesus,

which, like, at his most reasonable, if you take his life, you throw out all the things that are unreasonable, miracles are not particularly reasonable, claiming to be God is not reasonable, resurrecting from the dead is not reasonable. So like, what you're clinging to is a very optimistic man who died young. Well and and once again, it seemed to work for him. Right? Apart from the dying young by his choice, frankly, but, like,

what's not reasonable is going through Samaria as a Jew. Not reasonable. Right. Right? And then he does it and it works out. You know, like, everything that he the the problem is is, like, these arguments don't happen in a vacuum. It's the same guy that will come up and tell you is, like, your your way of thinking is flawed or it's not progressive enough or, science has taken us beyond this or, you know, we don't find this reasonable. And then if I were to take all the facts in and go, look, I hear what you're saying, but, like, your way of thinking, leads to high instances of anxiety, depression, loneliness, and, like, a a huge number of broken marriages. And and then you're telling me that, like, the thing that I think is flawed. Yeah. Like, that's not reasonable. Right. Right? If I look at the output for faithful fall I mean, faithful followers of Jesus Christ, flawed faithful, but yet faithful. Yep. Right? Like, if I can compare those numbers to the things that you're saying and, like, on on totally on things that people will universally agree are positive.

Yeah. I feel like the faithful followers of Yahweh, have got this thing by the by the pants. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like and so, like, once again, it's like, you know, you're like, this isn't reasonable or I was thinking about it and, like, this is I hear what you're saying, but your output doesn't have thousands of years worth of people dying for your thing That's right. For your nothing. Right. You know I'm saying? So, like, that's kinda hard to take in. You have no hospitals based on your nothing. You have no orphanages based on your nothing. You have no charitable organizations that are based on your nothing. Like, all these things where people are sacrificing of themselves to make most of God and people, and you go, yeah, the thing that you're doing is unreasonable. Well, your grandma's in my unreasonable hospital. Right. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I think this is I I I think it's it's a critique on Christians being supposedly stubborn. You continue to believe this thing like like either childish things like somebody got swallowed by a fish, or the earth is only seven days old, or or it was created seven days, or just all kinds of things.

But like our our our doctrine comes from a scripture which was faithfully recorded by people who believed it to be true and and lived in a life in such a way that reflected that they believed it to be true. And so I I think it is it is very, shortsighted

to act like those things are not reasonable. Because here's the thing. Some guy, like, some guy was was begging at the gate, and then he runs into Pete and Pete and the boys, and then he's healed completely and and leaps off. Like, what is your reasonable explanation for that? Actually, the most reasonable thing I can think of is that a miracle occurred probably attached to the god who had recently raised a man from the dead and who had demonstrated miracles, over and over again. That's actually the most reasonable thing I can think of. Mhmm. Like, there's no explanation for the other for the man leaping in this way. And so, like,

and and again, if you throw out all the things that are unreasonable, I'm not sure what you're still clinging to in a like, you should just give up religion. But then here's the thing, what are you gonna follow? I don't find any human particularly reasonable. I've read it in all kinds of more like, dude, that's not that doesn't make any sense what you're saying. Well, that's the thing. It's like and even in the time that you talk to them, maybe they sound reasonable, and you'll find them five years later and be like, yeah, that thing I thought not reasonable at Yeah. It's totally gone. Right? Like, we're I mean, we're at least pointing back to a god that does not change, whose heart is always the same, and always has the same goal. Yeah. Right? Like, it it never changes, but, like, your what was reasonable fifty years ago in your same line of line of thinking was that parents shouldn't hug their kids. That was the reasonable thing. Right. Right. It's like over affectionizing them creates a bunch of wimpy kids, and then they won't be able to perform in society. Well, that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard, but it made perfect sense in 1952. Yeah. Right. Right. So your reasonableness seems to move where God's steadfastness and truth doesn't. Yeah. So once again, who's reasonable? I count on the thing that doesn't move. The house built on the rocks. That's right. And and and I I guess would also submit that, like, reason is subject is subjective to humanity. This gets to to what you Mike, what you were saying, but, like, what one person finds reasonable, another person does not. I find, hey, I could eat a candy bar a week. That seems reasonable. My wife finds a candy bar a month to be much more reasonable. We disagree on what on reasonableness.

And so let's it's it's human subjectivity, which you can't particularly pin down. And, like, think of all the humans you know, they're completely like wild donkeys of people. Think about everybody you work with. Like, you walk in every day, and then ten minutes in the day, you go, you gotta be kidding me. That's ridiculous. Here comes a guy that goes, you'll never guess what Frank did. And you're like, okay. Hit me with a story. And you hear it and you go, Frank is ridiculous. Yeah. I never would have done that. That's because you find Frank unreasonable and you find yourself reasonable. That's right. And think actually, think about this. Think of the think of where you go for fast food. And you guys order the whole menu? You spread it out, or do you just get the thing you like? Same thing. If they don't same thing. Right? Same thing. Okay. Somebody who's not you is keeping Mickey D's afloat on the number six that you're not ordering. They're selling enough to keep it on the menu. That means there are that many people who who are ordering this thing that you would never touch. You never order it. Who orders the Filet O Fish? Yeah. Who? Never. Would I waste a trip to McDonald's on the Filet O Fish? This is what I'm saying. And somebody's like, I can't wait to stop there for the Filet O Fish. I could have anything on this menu. I'll take the Filet Fish. And and, like, those and they'll sub out for the those nasty apples in a packet. You're like, what? There's fries available. This is like these people are voting. And this is what I'm saying. These are on the other end of this reason conversation. Last one, putting hierarchy over equality.

Right critique would exist when it comes to how you think about how people serve in the church. Maybe more specifically, you should change the phrasing to how people serve their communities, including those within the church. And so, like, where you feel like your position this is a pastor problem. If you believe you are over and above people as opposed to having unique you should fight this just feel like a burden to you, to be honest. I think if you're pastoring correctly, you don't feel above people. You feel like you're the guy in the corner who just got tagged to to weep over all the crap going on around them because everyone's gonna tell you. They're gonna hide it from everyone else. They're gonna come find your house and go, hey. Guess what? Here's how the world is f'd up. Yeah. And you weep for it. Like, this is not a this is a prophet's job. It's not the same work as a prophet, but, like, it's the type of gig where, like, when God says, hey. I call you to be a pastor. I think you can enjoy it because you're doing the work of the Lord. But, like, they don't but she would make you feel like a king. Like, I don't think you're doing it right. And so if if there's a hierarchy

and I actually, this is what makes me nervous about bigger churches is if someone if there were someone to come to me, let's say I was a lead pastor of like a church got, I don't know, 3,000 people in or something, and they say, hey, look, I I need to talk about this. And I say, you need to schedule some time with the pastor over your cohort. Yeah. You don't I don't I don't I don't meet with people. You go meet with this guy. Okay. That's crappy. Or people like, the level of importance, which means you don't deal with people's stuff that now you're managing an organization. I think that's junk too. But this was hierarchy over equality. The the the if you're a purist house church guy, they're all over this. They in fact, they would they would hate the way I do it.

That, like, you have even, like, a guy who says, I'm the guy who teaches the thing. They'd be like, no. Everyone speaks. Like, I mean, nobody in any different ways, everyone's like this bland bringer of spirit shaking every week. I'm not sure. I'm not sure on it. So I think I think you can you can overrun this, if you don't recognize where I feel like scripture continues to bear out. There are people that have specific responsibilities within the church, but they're not thrones. They're responsibilities. They're ways in which you serve the community around you. Other people are serving the community around you in ways that don't require a title,

but they're serving in the same way you're serving. You just have yours is maybe has some representation of scripture, not not everybody's does. But like, I think, yeah, I think we can totally get this wrong. How about where it's a poor example? I I think I think you stretch it too far to act like, there is not a set I think hierarchy is not the right word. But, like, again,

do you do you still consult the pastor if you've got two if you got two believers trying to sort something out? Is it still okay? Do you go to a guy who's got a sense of authority over a particular thing? Like, he's the guy who God has put put the burden on his heart to say, you you answer these types of questions. Is it still okay to go that guy as opposed to just picking a rando? I think that's alright. Yeah. I think that's okay. I think there's certain people that God has gifted, and, like, as a church, you're not called to be blind to that. Well, I I but and and we've seen this before, like, where where people within a church all of a sudden feel like, they don't like the direction that the pastor's going. Yeah. I don't even know what direction that could possibly be except for to Jesus, but they're like, hey. You know, I don't like this. And so they they start to get a gaggle of dudes together, and they're like, we're gonna usurp this thing and whatever. And, like, I don't like that we have this and this company coming out to do the HVAC and all kinds of weird crap, and you're like, now listen. There is some hierarchy here. Because a hierarchy in a church is not generally established by job title. It's by, responsibility. Yep. And so, like, you know yeah. Do I think that the guy that shows up once a month all of a sudden should be in the middle of the business meeting deciding if we're gonna add to the new wing or not? No, man. You're not invested here. No. Yeah. You're you're you're you're we're not equals in this conversation. Right? Like, I'm here day and night all the time, and I I'm listening to everybody's stuff, and I know what our finances are and our projections for next year, and you just show up off the street and go, no. No no new wing. Like, nah. We're not listening to you. You know what you know what this protects against? This is where, like,

it doesn't protect against the happy path where everyone is humble and doing their best to serve the kingdom and respecting the different talents and responsibilities that God has given people. You don't have a problem with this. Like, where you have a problem is in the face of human arrogance. Or like like to your point, guy shows up off. He's he's in this church for two weeks, and now he's, like, trying to make a bunch of changes. And he doesn't even know these people. He doesn't care for them. Like, he's that's corrupt. There's a corruption in that. And this this type of stuff, like, someone's gonna go talk to him. Someone gets to have the final say. Someone signs the paychecks to see if there are some. Like, it's alright to have someone who has those responsibilities. I just the hierarchy is right call though. Like, I, to the extent that it feels like you are actually above someone as opposed to there's just a uniqueness to your responsibility. Yeah. Nathaniel, any parting any parting thoughts on this on the on this list? That's that's the last one.

No. No. Other than other than, you know, he got some things right. He got some things wrong. We talked about it. If you wanna, know more about it, rewind the tape. He's the best. Best side man ever. Mike, I told you he was the best. You said, I'm not sure he's the best. I said, oh, he's the best. Yeah. I here's the thing. It's like some of that is I don't know. Even making a list like that,

out to the masses with no further explanation, It's too much mystery. Right? Like, hey, ping me, and I'll give you the gist of this. Right? Like, when you pair two completely unlike things, not even opposites, but just unlike, you know Yeah. And then go this over this, and then provide no context or explanation. You just throw it out there for a bomb. You're not out there to edify people. You're not out there to encourage them or enlighten them or actually reveal the error of your ways. You're just out to say something grandiose

so people can take it in, which only leads me to believe that you just wanted credit for being grandiose. Yeah. Yeah. Like, someone who who got burned in some way or another over one of these words or at least what they think is one of these words is gonna applaud this. Like, if you just wanted people to give to plant two puckers on your left, butt cheek, you're gonna succeed with this. Any thoughtful person is go, what do you mean by religion? What do you mean by hypocrisy, like, hierarchy? What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Like, if people who are having right conversations that are, like, helping to refine and and get to good thought about places in which we need to grow and change, they got a million questions on this list. The people who don't wanna learn but just wanted to rally and cry, they're gonna dig on it. And so the question is, did you contribute to good in the world by doing this? Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure you did. I think this is a little bit self aggrandizing. It now it feels like repentance maybe on on some things on what you got caught up in. It does seem a little bit, again, it's it's it's got that vibe of, well, I'm glad I got beyond this.

Now I'm above But once again, if you really wanted to help other people not struggle with it, like, there's better ways of going about it. You know what I'm saying? I think I think you should speak to this. I think we we identified, I think, situations where this is probably true for every one of these except for a couple. But the question is, this is the most effective way. Do you wanna seek change, you just wanna whiz off the balcony? Yeah. I think you just whiz off the balcony. Also a weird dichotomy.

Either a guy wants change or he's gonna whiz off the balcony. That's what's that's a was it substantive? Whizzing off the balcony over having change. Does he wanna go to mistake of ministry. Does he wanna talk to talk to the gardener and help him improve, or is he just he just wanna let it fly two stories up onto the gardener? Once again That's what I'm saying. Two thing opposite I mean, not opposite things. Not in the same category. This is the same thing. You're listening to life from the path. Hey. If you, maybe you love this list. You think it's fantastic, and you think I falsely accused you of being a wizard or a butt kisser. So you could call our complaint line 515 Or I can't. Doot drinker.

(515) 517-0085. Call or text if you could stop drinking out of the pot. Okay. Mike, your question. Let me go back to to get the sense of, Mike's, there was a particular line on this deconstruction business here. It was, basically, when Jesus showed up, he presented a reality of what following Yahweh looked like that was completely foreign to the folks claiming to follow Yahweh, Pharisees and whatnot. Is deconstruction like that or more destructive and why? Yeah. So

I so I was I I can't remember. I was listening to a fella talk. Right? And, like, all of it sounded like trying to understand his faith well. Right? And and all of it sounded okay until he's like, I'm I'm deconstructing. And then he he drops the the deconstructing word, and I'm like, okay. Honestly, you know, like, I just I I don't know. It makes me cringe every time people saying crap like that. But I think I I'm bringing negative connotations to it, mainly because the people that I see that are claiming to do that, they just feel like they're doing it for their own glorification reasons, you know. Right. But

but to be fair, if I was actually gonna look at somebody that says, look, I had this this faith built up, and over the years and let's say you got to be my age where, you know, you're you're like, okay. I I I really wanna turn back and look at this thing and make sure that this makes sense to me. Yeah. Do I do I see an issue with that? My answer would be no, actually. Right? Like, I expect you to to to run your faith through some filters and through some things that are true and have them verified, in scripture and go, hey. You know, is this what I actually believe? Am I living out the thing that I say that I've based my whole life on? And, like, I I was thinking about I was thinking about Nicodemus, you know, where where the guy thought he had this whole thing covered. He's a Pharisee and and, like, he's got this all figured out, and then Jesus shows up and, like, he's forced to rethink everything that he thought was true about what the Messiah looks like and what following Yahweh looks like and what temple sacrifices and all this stuff. Right? So, like, let's take the if I take the mustache twisted out of it and I just look at Nicodemus and go, is that is that deconstructing? Is that here's what I thought this was. And now I feel like I I need to rethink this. I've I've been presented with different information, and I'm I'm just gonna look at this completely fresh.

I don't see that as as near as bad. No. No. No. No. That's appropriate. Totally appropriate. So so so what's the difference between, like, let's say that interaction with Nicodemus and Jesus and, like, the modern term of deconstruction that we're looking at? So I think some people actually do mean that. I think there are folks who are who are doing that, and they're going through a refining process. It's like it's like taking the power washer to your deck

after the winter or whatever. Very satisfying. Yeah. You're like, hey, man. Do I like, I don't intend to have it this way. Is there crap on here that I didn't put on there or that I don't want on here? And, is it righteous? Is this what my deck is supposed to be? And so you take the power washer, and you start seeing, hey. What what's what are the bones of the thing that remain after I get all the crapola off it? Especially stuff that other humans have put on it. And so, like, you should constantly be asking that. Like but, like, deconstruction gives the sense that someone has built a house and then took it apart, like,

well, like, block by block or board by board and then reput it back together. But, like, I I can't imagine it actually requires that. So so, like, I think a lot of times when people are talking about deconstruction, deconstruction, they are saying that. They're like, I'm gonna rebuild this thing from a from the ground up. But, like, my foundation didn't change as an example. Like, I'm looking to see, did a bird did did a bird take a dump on my deck that I need to hose off? Not do I need to blow up the deck and reconstruct an igloo out of the shards, which is what most people are doing when they're talking about deconstruction. They they're they tend to mean,

like, they're even, like, foundational things of the faith. Not how do I understand them, but whether they are legit, whether they are real things. And, like, that's the place where I would say, like, I wouldn't I might remodel the house. I might may turn up, like, something I intended for a bedroom has all my flyover kitchen utensils out. Well, I'm not using it correctly. It's wrong. So I'm gonna get the kitchen utensils out and use it for what it's supposed to. These are all fine. But, like, I think the thing that that that kind of ends up triggering,

Christians listening to deconstruction stories is it doesn't feel like people are looking to get, like, what is the real sense of what God was saying? They're going, did God say? Is God is God real? Like, is any of this stuff true, or what do I think? That's really what it's like. It's like you blew up a house that God built and then reput it together based upon your own design. And that that, I think, is what it feels like to some folks. I think that's a little unfair, because I think the questions are are totally right. Yeah. Right. The question that, like, did God say or, like like, do I do I believe this thing that God said? Do I actually think this is true? I think those are those are still fair questions.

I I think the the where where it gets a bad rap is, like, once again, people are just they're doing it out in public. They're doing it like the like the fellow that wrote the list. Yeah. Right? They're not really saying anything or trying to lead you in a way or apologizing for the fact that they had had drug you down a thing that they believe to be true and now they no longer believe to true. And then when they when they're when they leave, like, they they they just tend to blow up everything behind them. You know what saying? Like, they just be like, it was all wrong and you guys are wrong. Now we're at the superiority thing, where you guys are all wrong forever believing this. And and and I I think most of it comes from, once again, like, we just have real short memories. Right? We forget the things that God did. We forget the things that the that we saw him move in other people's lives and in our lives, and you saw there's no one that's been following Jesus for any amount of time that hasn't seen God do an amazing work. Like, you just have. And and and so, like, you now you tend to minimize it and go, well, that wasn't that amazing, or that could have just been a thing of coincidence or whatever. And then you start to rationalize it and then get it all kicked out of there, and then all the things that you knew to be true, all of a sudden are not. And so, I I guess maybe I'm just trying to make sure that, like, when we're talking about people doing deconstruction, we're not talking about people that are just taking a hard look

at at the structure that they have and going, look, what have I allowed to creep in here? What have I let some squatters sit here? Where have I decided that I'm gonna put in a glass chandelier? Well, that doesn't even fit the motif of the house. Right? This stuff needs to go. You know, opposed to, like you said, like, just blow the whole thing up and then and now they wanna go to each house and blow those up too and go, just so you know, I've seen the light of of how phony and raw this is. It's going to the to the rest of the houses in your neighborhood that were built by the same builder and, like, making sure people knew as I like. By the way, I need to remind you, your house sucked. I I got suckered into believing in such a crappy house, and I bought it. But now I've rectified this by blowing it up and reconstructing on my own under my own counsel. Well and here's the thing. It's like most of those folks, I I mean, that I would know personally that have done something like that, like, problem is is that they they believed a promise that that God didn't even make. Yeah. Right? Like, they believed something to be true or and it always has to do with them personally. Right? Like, God was gonna make much of them. And when he did not or did not come through, then all of a sudden they're mad at God because God didn't make much of them. And, like, that is not anything God ever promised. Right? God says, you're already much. I said you were much, and you're only much because I said so. Right? And so they're like and and so, like, their deconstruction is based off of, well, if if God's promise to me, the salvation is not enough, the forgiveness of sins is not enough, the freedom that I enjoy, and and the grace that I am offered, that's not what I really wanted. I wanted to be made much of in other people's estimation or in my own estimation, and that's where God has failed me. And then and then they decide that the structure itself wasn't sound because it didn't have their name and lights at the top of it. I mean, is it the word?

Is it aren't we being jacked around by this word anyway? Would you ever call something I I wanna deconstruct that? What would you say? I wanna think about it. Like, because Examine? Within the bounds of within the bounds of Christianity, like, every question I've heard someone who's deconstructing asked, like, someone who's following Jesus is asking.

The prophets are asking. Like, I love this. Minor prophets. Like, multiple times, guys are like, where are you? Where are you, God? Are you even listening? Are you even real? These are the probably, we we took these guys' words and go, yeah. Totally. That's the that's the God Put that in the scriptures. Write that down. We wanna remember that one. And so, like like, did god is this what god actually means? You tell me. Like, maybe it's an it's it's it's irritating because there's an arrogance to, like, hey. You know, I don't wanna believe something so stupid like someone got swallowed by a fish. Like, do you know how many do you know how many Jonah commentaries I've read? Like, listening to people who, like, are sharp, sharp people talking through. Like, you just thought of this. Like, you came up with this critique for the scriptures. Hey. I don't I don't think the earth is, I don't think it was made in seven days. I think that's garbage. I I love I love science. It's like, have you have you spent any time here? Like, this is a major thing that, like, really smart people who love Jesus and love people are talking about. Like, we've spoken to these types of things. There's an arrogance to walk away from it and go in fact, listened to some guy who was deconstructing his and, he was a Calvinist. And he walked away, and he's like, you know, I just can't believe in a that that in a god like that. I'm like, I mean, there are other options.

Like, have you entertained them? Like, within the bounds of Christianity, you're examining. You're filtering. You're refining. Outside of the bounds of Christianity, you're not deconstructing. You're demolishing. That's the word. Nobody goes, hey. We need to deconstruct that building. They're like, we could blow it up. Yeah. We could blow it Taking it down. You said deconstructing to soften it somehow or make it sound like you're being super thoughtful about it. You're not doing that. You're blowing it up. Otherwise, you're just asking. It's totally okay to ask. And here's the deal. I don't care if the questions, like, are leaning towards you. Look. I don't know if I believe this anymore.

That's great. Jesus will meet you in there. I don't you're not afraid of any of that stuff. I think that's totally great. It's it's if when you do it, one, with arrogance, and two, when you when you act like whatever flight of fancy that you came up with or the thing that's been eaten away on your on your brains for a bit that, like, you didn't approach it as if if there's anybody else that has thought about these hard questions. Like, I don't like to see people walk away from Christianity for freaking not having bothered to ask a question of any competent party. They took their own counsel under their own question and then decided that we had a real problem. That's right. And read one chapter of the bible and go, I got this covered. You know? And and, like, that happens quite a bit too. Right? Folks would be like, well, I just can't marry up how this how god would think about this in this way. And it like, did you read the book that he gave you? Because, like, he speaks to it. Yeah. He and it makes pretty good sense when you actually read it. But no. That's what I'm saying. I find it reasonable back to the other story. Yeah. I yeah. I I think that that's the Actually, the thing that's sticking with me is is, like, the it it it is a it's a placating arrogance when you to use the term deconstruction back at the rest of the Christian community.

Right? Like, you are trying to soften it and be like, don't worry. I'm not making a rash decision. I'm I'm taking this apart piece by piece and looking at it thoroughly. You're not actually doing it. Not like you, you religious dolt. That's right. You're just looking back at at your at your ex at your ex believer friends and be like, don't worry. I'm not doing this in an unreasonable way. And and your and your your your Yahweh loving friends are going, yes, you are. Yeah. You are absolutely doing that, and you're trying to convince me at the same time you're trying to convince you. And don't worry, I'm not believing it either. Yeah. Now here's the thing. I think there are some very I think there's there's competing worldviews that cause people to relook at scripture and say, hey, look, I I I read the things that you're talking about, and I find it wanting. And that might be the case. I'm just saying that, like, most of the people of which I've seen them provide an explanation, it is not it is not a particularly thoughtful thing. It's like you you like, somehow either the religious life or or religious behavior or something that you wanted failed you. And so here's actually, here's the thing. You tag it for me. I I I'll I'll give you a nine out of 10. 90% of the time, deconstruction,

within twelve to twenty four months prior to that point, some major life event happened that disappointed some. Somebody died, somebody got divorced, Somebody got sick. Church blew up. Something like that. A guy you trusted who was supposed to have loved Jesus did a real sinful crappy thing. That's right. That's right. You find me a guy who's deconstructing that doesn't have a catalyst of some sort of human human let down, of which he ultimately like, people who are sharp will go, no. I wasn't expecting God to do anything, but I think you're being dishonest. You're holding God accountable for some sort of human frailty. Now I think you can. I think that's fine, actually. I think God is responsible for the world. He's responsible for freedom in it. And if you wanna hold him, take him to task on that, I think you can. But, like, if you believe enough to say God is responsible

for allowing freedom in the world, then you have to then allow all the other things the scripture tells you. In which case, this is a really compelling story. And, like, you can't just pick and choose different parts of it. Just like I think, you know, the people's insistence on trying to hold on to faith in Jesus if if and throw out everything that requires anything outside of reason, like, oh, you're just like a martyr. You're just like a nice man who seems martyr ish. Yeah. And, like, that's I I mean, I why you believe in that? There's all kinds of really good candidates if that's your only criteria. But I I once again, is is and this is just from personal experience. Right? Like, I know people who have met Jesus, and, like, their life they smelled like Jesus, and their life was different, and it was awesome. And then you find them two years later where they're like, no. That was all just. Yeah. Who? Yeah. I I wasn't really into that. I'm like, you're miserable right now. I can look in your eyes until you're absolutely miserable. And so I can look back on two years ago, and and you were grinning ear to ear, and now you're absolutely miserable. And you're trying to convince me that the other one was terrible? Like, once again, this is it's just it's hard to take in, fellas. You know, when you go through this deconstruction where you're all mopey and terrible and you're like, I'm really going through some things and spitting around sitting around time, spending all my time sitting around thinking. Yeah. That sounds like a real hoot. Yeah. Right? You were out praising Jesus and smiling and laughing with other people and enjoying the company of sinners and non sinners and all kinds of folks watching God do amazing things. And here you are two years later because your pastor let you down or you were thought you were promised a thing that that didn't come to fruition, and now all of that doesn't count. And now you're just mister morose, and, yeah, that's great. That I'm sure that's really bolstering where you were. You're right. You nailed it. Right. Your newfound enlightenment seems pretty damn heavy. Exactly. Like, do I don't know why deep construction dudes are so mad. You're trying to prove to me that Jesus ain't the way to go and this whole thing's a sham. And here you are, mister depressed. Right? You're getting divorced and then your whole world's caving in and and you're like, yeah. This is much better. Yeah. I mean, who do you who are you trying to fool? Yeah. So I think I think the the the long run of it is,

I think we gotta be real careful. Don't, this goes to some of the stuff we talked about last week related to that list, which is don't feel like you gotta, defend the bible further than it tends to defend itself. I think we should we should be happy to hear people asking questions about their faith. Okay? That's how iron doesn't sharpen iron by running the other direction. It has to hit other iron. And so, like, let's ask. Let don't critique people who are asking these types of questions. Let's be in on it. But, like, if if you're running into if there's an arrogance to it, either because you're someone who's going through this product, let's just call it demolition. Alright? This deconstructed thing is bogus thing to say. So you're blowing you're blowing it up because you're not sure and you wanna start and check it out fresh. That's fine. But you can't be arrogant about it. And frankly, if you're gonna do that, this thing is the utmost importance. Most people are Christians. Like at or least Christianity's got a solid foundation throughout the world. The thing has persisted, and at least the Yahwehistic

religions are dominating the world. Like, you are in a significant minority to not believe not be, a Muslim, a Jew, or a Christian, which means this thought of Yahweh God, the one Yahweh God is freaking sticking to the mat. Alright? So the burden of proof is on you to go, why do I, within the 2%, 3% of the world, reject everything else that everyone believes? Like, I think you better flesh it out, and it can't just be because you had a bad taco. That that the holy indigestion stuff. It can't not be that that's the reason you bailed on the thing. You gotta put it through its ringer. And if you come to the conclusion like, I can respect that you run through this through the stuff and you come to the conclusion that's not right after listening to everybody, people who love Jesus, who are smart, who've tussled over the stuff that you dismissed. But, like, you gotta give it that. It's of the utmost importance. It has to be. Right. And it can't just be based on your feeling. Right? And you know that. And you know better than that that your feelings can't be trusted. You absolutely know that. I know mine can't. That's why you end up looking at some ancient book and going, boy, I think people over the centuries have looked at this, read what it promised, and still believed it after they lived a life. That's why you crave the words of Jesus in times of trouble. You're like, I just wanna know something true. I wanna know how to look at the world correctly, and I know that I am not. Yeah. So Jesus, tell me a thing. That's right. Show me the red letters. It's gonna calm me down. Alright.

Hey. You're listening to life from the path. Let's we got time to give, like, an advice? One advice? Probably two. Ready? Two. Dear life from the path, I am blessed to have a wonderfully supportive family, which includes my and my husband's siblings. I was recently scheduled for major abdominal surgery. Mhmm. For the weeks leading up to it, I quietly went about preparing the house and putting systems in place so I could be absent. But otherwise, I tried not to dwell on the an an upcoming unpleasantness. Most of my support people checked in and occasionally see how I was doing or if I need anything. One sister-in-law, however, has been over the top. She sends cards, texts, flowers, and calls. I appreciate her support, but it's too much. The cards always say the same thing, heal gently, quotes, and, quotes, these are the good old days of medicine. In the weeks leading up to surgery and afterward, I have received nearly a dozen cards plus her texts, etcetera. Is there a nice way to let her know it is too much and I'm tired? My body reminds me every day that I'm healing, but slowly. I don't want the attention and the reminder that I am not yet where I'd like to be. Please let me know if there's a polite graceful way to make it stop. What kind of burden is this? Wow.

We could here's the deal. The fact that this bubbled up and you thought, you know, if the problems in the world that need solved, this one over I'm being overbearing with overbearing upon with kindness on things that I can easily ignore. You know what I'm saying? Have your husband get the mail. 12 cards? That's aggressive. Here's oh, fine. Stack them in the corner. Don't even you don't have to tell your wife about it. This is a husband problem. Now the text messages, I mean, put put her on as spam. I've done that. Spam her out if you have to. Yeah. Say no longer. Yeah. But, like, I I mean, I I I get it. It's not like this is a significantly awkward problem,

because it's hard to tell someone, look. You're you're being overbearing in your kindness. But I'm just saying there there are things that are easily ignored. If she was showing up at your house three times a day with balloons that you had to get up and speak with her about or something, okay. I mean, I get it. You can handle this directly, but, like, don't open the card. Just don't look at it. If if she's you tell me she says healed healed gently, the same thing every time. Well, then it's not a surprise. Don't open it, or have your husband open it. Just set it on the counter. Who thinks it's somebody this much? I mean, it's a real whiz bang of a lady. You think there's something going on? No. I'm just trying to put together like,

I mean, it's obviously not my personality, so I'm trying to walk in someone else's shoes here. Yeah. I know. You know? And so, I mean, one card is pretty good. Yeah. And then you're like, I just gotta keep nailing them out. But then again, like, I'm I'm sure if, someone I knew got in a car accident or something, I'd you know, every other day would be like, how are doing today? We starting to feel different today? What are know, getting some feelings back on going on. That after a while. Probably two or three days, and then I'd say, I'm not I'm not gonna bother them for, like, a week. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean okay. Let's answer her question. Let's say that we decided that this was head crossed the line of some kind, and we gotta try to we got we gotta say something to help shut it down. Yeah. You would say something to the effect of, I would tell a lie, honestly. I would tell a white lie. I would say, listen. I appreciate I appreciate your thought you're thinking about me. I'm doing pretty good. I'm gonna go ahead and shut my phone down for a little bit and try to get some rest. I'll I'll get ahold of you in the next couple days. But then you would keep it on? And then I would keep it on. And you'd use the net. I would use the Internet. And interact with other people. And play play Wordle Yeah. And do games and stuff, hoping that they would get the hit. Or I suppose you wouldn't have to lie. You could say something effective. I'm doing pretty good. I appreciate you checking in. I'll give you a call here in the next couple days. When I get to feeling better, I'd I'd love to do some lunch. And she says, okay. I'll text you in the meantime. Keep up.

Text you some encouragement. Dang. And then I'll send you these card in the mail, double double medium. I don't understand the mail cards. That's too much. That's too that's too many. 12 cards is too many. Those are cards are expensive. She's probably handwriting them on a piece of paper. You see she just fold the memo. She's using college rules. Fired it out homeschool homeschool stuff. Yeah. Thinking of you, I cut these letters out of a magazine, spelled the name of it. What's what's actually the offense here? People are bothering me. I expected x amount of peace and people to leave me to recuperate, and they're not. They're continuing to come in, which is not helping in my peace. So you're right. You can only control certain systems. So, like, stop getting the mail. Stop reading the cards. The text messages, I mean, you could block your spam. I mean, tell the why don't you tell the husband? It's his sister-in-law. I wouldn't have any problem going

to my like, Mike if you were overburdening my wife with tax after she got in a car accident, I'd say, hey, man. You gotta dial that back. Like, she's barely looking at that stuff. And, like, you keep writing the same thing in all the cards. I wanted to know how much I'm concerned about her. Yeah. I mean, it's too much. It's too much on her. You just cut it like, you want it to be appreciated. You can't flood the you can't flood it. Who gives a guy the roast for being too caring? Here's the deal. That's how I've always been. I you're you're an Oreo you're an Oreo cookie. Like, it's enjoyable, but, like, you can overdo it. You eat the whole package. Like, that's regrettable. Yeah. I yeah. Here's the thing. Is your, there's many ways to solve this. Direct honesty is one of them. You're just not quite willing to go there. That's the truth. I think that's alright. You don't have to be directly honest. One, have your husband do it, and and he should be willing to. And second, if he's not willing to, then he should otherwise just be filtering out most of this stuff as he can. I mean, what do we take it? What's it take you two seconds to read this card? And it and it produces such a burden on you for having to have read it. Here's the deal. I You don't have cataracts. You know what I'm saying? She probably it probably took her more effort to submit this thing for advice,

than it does to just look at these cards, especially if they always say the same thing. Like, have your husband open it. He goes, it was a fly it was a red rose today. Red rose, sweetheart. And you go, man, they're she crazy. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for opening it. Dangerous. You're right. You're just taking this in too heavy. Yeah. You gotta let it go. Yeah. I let it go. Nathaniel. Let it go. Segular says, a quote's nice way to phrase it might be to say, quotes, honey, I'm grateful for all the support you've been giving me, but the surgery is behind me now, and I am slowly regaining my strength. Please don't send me any more Get Well cards. The dozen you have sent have already worked their magic. No. I hate that. Yeah. I mean, it's not even true. If they work their magic, you would be well. You just told me that you're not in the not quite well, which means I should encourage you to Get Well. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm a I mean, again, it depends on your personality. I could easily maybe go like, Mike, if your wife were sending me a bunch of that stuff, I say, hey, man. That's a lot of cards. I try to read them all, but if someone else needs your attention in the world, I gotta that's enough. I'm probably tied up. I got more than more than one per day a week. I could recycle them. And if she goes, I just really like to I just really like to send them, because we're thinking of you, I would say, okay. We'll keep sending them then. Thank you. Yeah. Really, this is a nonissue. It's a it this is really not as big of a burden as you're acting. And, like, maybe you're just self

insecure, like you're worried that people are thinking that much about you, and and I don't know. It seems like you have some different issues apart from, this woman being overbearing with the cards. I mean, I don't like people like, the sense that people are, like, worrying about you when you feel like it's not warranted and you don't want you don't like the sense of people, like, being, like, fussing over you. I get that, but, like, she's not really doing that. It's not like she's writing extensive cards or sending, like, third opinion doctors to show up. It's a one ply tissue issue, man. They ain't got no substance to it. Yeah. I'd snap it back. Like, it said, send you a card and says heal gently, and I'd call her and go, text this me. Yeah. I'm riding it rough. Yeah. Some some some, deucer keeps sending me cards all the time. Yeah. I got some violent healing to do. You want in on that? I can barely recover. That's weird. Yeah. Okay. Last one. Ready? Get well. Go to never mind. Go ahead. Dear life from the path, I refer to my husband as, quotes, the most single married man I know. He turns off the lights, turns off the heat, and turns off the TV while I'm still watching or still plan on being home. Yeah. His latest single thing is that he planned a birthday dinner out with our son and other family members. Guess what? I found out about it from the birthday boy. We've been married almost fifty years. All our children are in their forties. I have spoken to him numerous times about his forgetting my presence in a room, but I have never been excluded from a family birthday until now. I'm thinking of writing a book titled, the most single married man I know. What should I be doing differently? Are we sure I mean, if it he's been married fifty years. Let's assume they got married at 20. Got it. 18.

18. Are we sure he doesn't have some some dementia issues here? He just doesn't know He forgot his wife. Yeah. He's he's unaware. I I would keep that as a possibility. I mean, I just can't imagine the backlash I would receive if my wife is literally watching TV. And with no announcement, I shut her down, turn off the heat, cut the lights,

hit hit the trail. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just can't imagine. I did that the other day. I walked into the my bedroom, and I hit the lights. I was it was bedtime. And my wife was standing in there putting lotion on, and she she hollered at me. She's like, hey. Hey. I'm living here. I'm doing stuff. What's what's going on? Bedtime. Non existent person? I don't

I don't actually we've heard a number of advice requests of which people are complaining about situations that, like, I cannot imagine didn't come up at the time that they happened. Like, what did he say when you came up to bed and said, hey. Hey. Hey there, Ed. I was watching Gunsmoke Still, and, you know, I was shivering cold. Like, because then you'd get to your problem. If he said, look,

you can't keep it this warm in the house. We're trying to keep the energy bills down. You could say, my husband's a Taiwan. That's the problem. Or, I don't know. I can't think of a reason why, you know, he he likes us to go to bed together. We've done it, every every day for as long as we're married. So when he's ready to go to bed, we both go to bed. You could say, my husband's a bit controlling, and I have to bend to his schedule. But it there's it's kinda sweet. Yeah. But that isn't what you said. And so, like, I I

I don't know. Is it maybe they're maybe they don't have a healthy relationship. They're getting along. Now here's the thing. Actually, I take that back because it's it's not just unhealthy. It's antagonistic. If he intentionally scheduled a birthday setup, maybe he just assumed his wife was gonna go anyway because he's like, I'm going. And so I'll just tell her that day. That seems like a dude thing to do. I mean, here's the thing. It's like marriage's dynamic changes a little bit when your kids get out of the house, and your kids are 40. You know what I'm saying? Like like that you put you're in the 65 to 70 year old range most likely. You know? And so, like, are are you gonna have conversations with your grown son that you don't tell your wife about

different from when, say, your kids were nine and you had a conversation with your nine year old, and you're like, you'll never guess what me and the nine year old talked about. Yeah. Yeah. I schedule a birthday at the pizza ranch. That's right. And, like, it's not like you would inform your wife every time your son called and said, hey. How many amps do you think that fridge in my garage pulls? Yeah. You know? And you're like, you'll never guess what Craig called me about. The amps for the fridge. You know, your wife don't care about that crap, and so you don't mention it. You know? So now going out for the birthday dinner, but you didn't mention whether, like, does he go out to dinner with your son a lot? And you said other family members. Do you mean, like, all the sons? Yeah. Or, like, the daughters too and their grandchildren? Or, you know, like I mean, he sounds a little obtuse, aloof, and kinda kind of a jerk. Yeah. Maybe. We're gonna get in trouble for not being as hard on this guy as we should have been. I mean, I I don't know. I I just, I mean, he's he's obviously not being considerate of his wife. True. And that's wrong. He needs and and regardless of whether it's part of his personality, his personality needs to change. His wife doesn't feel appreciated. She feels left out.

Even if he had the intention of telling his wife now here's the here's what she didn't do. This would really help me. It's like, what did he say though? Like, when you said, hey. Why did you schedule a birthday party with our son and not tell me? Did he say, oh, shoot. I thought I'd written that down, or I thought I told you, or I wasn't gonna tell you ever because I don't care whether you're there or not. Like, which one did he say? Yeah. True. Is it a birthday dinner, like, a week before? Like, hey. We're just gonna do a dude's dinner. Like, me and me and the boy are gonna go out or something. I don't know. Like But you never bring it up. Is it or you just say that's that's the way it is, I guess. I I guess I'll never talk to him about it. Because I'll tell you what. Since I did that, and, Megan was talking to me about it, every single time I go to hit the lights and she's in the room, I say, you ready?

That's is going down. Actually, I made the mistake. My wife, would would, fall asleep on the couch. And, like, I bet it I bet I did it twice, but, like, I thought, oh, well, she's sleeping alright. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna wake her up. This seemed real practical. Like, I'm just gonna be kind about it. I mean, I I I got if how many degrees go up? Third is it third degree is worse than second degree? Yeah. I got the third degree. No. First degree is the worst. I got First degree murder is better than is worse than second degree. Got Are talking about murder or burns? Burn. It's a burn. It burns third degree. She's fired high. Bad. Yeah. I got whatever the highest degree is. I got it. I mean, she was mad. Why could why would you abandon me? Why would you leave me down there and just go to bed so selfishly? I'm like, I thought I thought I'd done the right thing here. Mhmm. But I had not. And but, like, I don't do anymore.

I say, I will rouse her. I will, like, shake her violently and say, look. We're going. It's time to go to bed. Yeah. I ain't leaving you down here. I ain't taking that that harassment again. So that's the thing. Drag her up the stairs. It's like, you're right. This problem should have been resolved through their thirties and forties and fifties and whatever. Like, to the point where, like, I mean, she should have been saying, hey. Stop shutting off the heat. I'm not ready to go to bed yet. Yeah. Leave the lights on. And he should be better by now. If she has been if she has mentioned this, there's no excuse for him continuing to act this way. But but people have we talked about this, where people keep the house. Now here's the thing. What am I gonna do? Am I gonna fight every day with my wife about what we keep the house at? She wants it at whatever. I say, yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. It's gonna be at the whatever. There's a phone ringing in here. That's boy, that's the weirdest thing ever. You gonna go answer it, Nathaniel?

Because see who see who's calling the church. It's like it's like almost midnight here. Van D's? Like, the ice cream shop? I can't I can't pick it out. Sorry. I know this is not entertaining radio, but, like No. You just don't hear a phone ringing out in the wild any day like this. Like, this is not not just like a cell corporate phone here at the at the studio church. Yeah. And then, like, the ladies announcing who's calling. Yeah. No one's even up here waiting to listen to the phone. This is a weird contraption Dan has in here. We'll have to talk to him about it. Anyway, yeah, at the end of the day, there seem to be a lot of life circumstances that should not allow this continue to be happening. Yeah. What was the story, I think? They hung up when I answered. Oh.

Rude. Rude. Yeah. So there there seems to be a whole life worth of marriages that's of marriage that should have helped switch some of this out. Yeah. No one is is disagreeing that your husband is an aloof self centered doofus. Yeah. I can't imagine in scheduling, hey. I'm gonna go visit the kids and not telling my wife. Not even just to say, hey. I set up a dinner with the boys. Yeah. I'm gonna go out with the with the with the young ones. Yeah. Like, that's just that's just weird. Yeah. Unless unless you're leaving out the part that you're a real pain in the teeth. You're, like, sit you're you're a gasbagger or or or you stir up a bunch of drama, and they don't want you there because you caused a bunch of trouble. Sounds like she is because she's writing a book. Yeah. Nobody writes a book without being a real gasbag. The most single married man I know. I mean, you tolerated this. I mean, this is not the woman's fault. I but I don't know. It just seems like if if you tolerate poor behavior

and then complain about it without actually having said anything to them, then that's, that's hard to take in. Yeah. I think that's difficult. What does what does the secular say? Secular advice is, if this has been going on since you and your husband were married, accept that he is someone who is unusually centered on himself. If this is something relatively recent, he may need to be physically and neurologically evaluated by his physician. If there's nothing, quotes, wrong with him, recognize it's time to fend for yourself. Remember to monitor the thermostat, keep a flashlight handy, and be prepared to explore activities you enjoy in case your husband, quotes, forgets to include you in the future. Like, monitor the thermostat, like fight with him? Like, move it up when he moves it down? Yeah. Is that what she means? Yeah. That's really aggressive. Yeah. Okay. Alright.

Is that it? We got are we gonna tuck it up? Yeah. Nathaniel actually answered the phone, so maybe we're gonna see what's going on around here. Yeah. Agreed. Okay. Well, we're gonna cut you loose. Thanks for hanging out with us in Life From The Path. Give us a call on the Life From The Path to Plate Line. (515) 517-0085. That's Bob Eisenhower. Life From The Path to Plate Line. We'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, be faithful in me. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live in the Past.