Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to Live From The Path. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper.

We're gonna have to license that Let me ask you this question. Can do you guys what are there any songs that you feel like you like that nobody else likes? I mean, like, the Tennessee Birdwalk.

Tennessee Birdwalk? What is that? Give us a few bars there. Yeah. Oh, man. It goes back to the seventies. I just remember it's the Tennessee Birdwalk. You'd have to look it up. I haven't heard it for, like, 50 that rendition, Dan. I don't like it. Hey. That's a good one. See, told you no one liked it but me. Tennessee bird walk.

It was like one those kids The number seven four hit from the Tom's Foolery some laugh. The Tennessee Bird Walk. That along with the dead skunk in the middle of the road. Those are two good ones. I don't get those channels. You're probably looking for real songs, though. I don't think I I don't listen to the radio that often. I'm I'm missing the Tennessee Bird Walk, apparently. Can you think of a song that A song that I like that, like, nobody else does? Yeah. I like

I like Mongolian throat singing and Mongolian throat metal. Oh, that's sick. What's give me a give an example. I mean, I can't give you an example. It's Mongolian throat singing that I refuse to do. Yeah. But there's a there's a Try a couple of both. There's a band called The Who that the h u, it means, like, human Oh, yeah. In in Mongolian. Yeah. And they they do, like, throat singing in metal. It's awesome. It's not it. That's it. That's that's not No. No. That sounded bro. That sounded like you got a problem with your sewage. Hey. Hey. Let's let's that's

a live version, Mike. You gotta you gotta get the live cut. Do the studio. Who will listens to the processed versions with a bunch of compression? Okay. Alright. Here we go. Here's what we got going on the live from the past. The only two answers we're getting is Tennessee, Bird Walk, and Mine. And I had one so ready. Okay. Alright. Go ahead, Grace. Will Helmina by Danny Kaye. How does that one go? Yeah. No. I'm not gonna You don't have to sing it. I mean, I'm not going sing it. Can The Tennessee bird rock. Mean, do you really I mean, is that is that something that you're you you are sure you want? Yeah. Hit us a bar, Grace. Yeah. Will Helmina. She's the sweetest little girl in Copenhagen.

Yeah. It's ancient. It's like, I'm gonna guess, early nineteen twenties. Okay. Okay. Made me physically uncomfortable. You should I'm work on that. I'm never changing my name to Wilhelmina now. It makes me wanna do the Tennessee bird walk. I don't know, Dan. That one seems pretty popular. It's growing on me. Are you looking for it right now?

It sounds like you wrote this. Did you write this song in 1974? I don't hate it. It's going on there. We have to license that now too. Hey. Take away their wings. Oh, it's 1970. Okay. Okay. I was negative 21. Morgan, Tennessee bird walk. Will Helena does the Tennessee bird walk. I don't even know why that came to mind.

I like that song, Gravy Train by Mark Knopfler. Oh, Mark Knopfler? Yeah. From the Dire Straits. You just like gravy? Riding on the gravy train. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. It is. That's what I'm saying. Alright. What about you, Ben? No. I don't I'm not no. It's out. We're no longer than expected. He doesn't listen to music. I was gonna I was gonna real question. I was just gonna transition. Alright. So we got a bunch of articles today. So here so I'll let you guys pick. There was some it said nine things you should know about the communion service on the moon. Did you know people did communion on the moon? No. I did not know that. And wouldn't the Jews try to escape? Question one. What? Did why would there be a Jew on the moon? And why would they take communion?

Because now There's a pharaoh here too. Have any of our astronauts been, like, professing Christians? I I mean, I don't pay attention to that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. In 1969 Oh, we are voting. You can't start reading. Dan voted. Okay. Oh. Just in 1969, Buzz Aldrin was an elder at Webster Presbyterian Church. Buzz Aldrin.

And they've been struggling to find the right symbol for the first lunar landing. We wanted to express our feeling that what man was doing in this mission transcended electronics, computers, and rockets. One of the principal symbols is that God reveals himself in the common elements of everyday life. So they got the idea for a communion ceremony, and they did it on the moon. That was just a year before the Tennessee bird walk. What? No. I think these things are related. I never thought of it before, but I think you're right. Okay. That's probably the code name for Walker on the Moon. One trumpet blast, the moon. Second trumpet blast, Tennessee bird walk.

Oh, dear. Okay. Too so far as for the bird walk. Too so far. Here we go. Okay. Too so good. Here we go. Nine nine micro stresses of a pastor? Micro stresses? Okay. I'm curious as to what this is. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna try them out and see if they hit that. Aggression? Yeah. Let's see. Hold on. Let's just get one example. The decision making micro stresses.

Okay. The yeah. These are classic. Alright. Okay. We're gonna hit those up. Great. Bible removed from Utah elementary middle school bookshelves for sex and violence. There's definitely that in there. This is what I'm saying. It's there. I mean, I mean, they removed it for reasons that are in the bible. So so interesting. Now the the I think the the someone sent this to me, and I think the idea was I was supposed to be incensed. And I thought I mean That's a reaction. Yeah. Seems it feels like you should you could pull it. Like, for elementary school kids, are there would I give my

seven year old the whole Bible and go go to town? No. I I want to help Sodom and Gomorrah, kids. Right. So, like told me had a Jesus story on Bible before. Why'd that lady get turned into salt? I like salt. I'm so bad about that. Yeah. Lot's wife was around. Lot's wife was a Himalayan, and that's how she ended up in the way she is.

Hey. They call me butter because I'm on a roll. I feel like I just got micro stressed four times in that statement alone. Whatever that whatever just happened, I would like to unexperience. I can't believe it's not me. The Gen Z Boardwalk. That's awful.

Okay. Anyway, I'm not surprised. The actually, the only thing that I was surprised about is the books that remained on the shelf after they pulled the Bible. I there's probably so I would probably be disappointed. Yeah. Like, there's a welcome elementary school child. Here's all kinds of information I prefer they not have, but they but they pulled the scriptures. They're playing games. Yeah. Apologies. It was in Utah though. Okay. That one's out.

Okay. Now here's the deal. I don't wanna pay for some of these articles. The Christianity Today started started covering stuff under the the threat of $50 monthly fee. But spiritual battle of teen screen time. So, actually, I I wanted to talk to you ladies about this anyway. Oh, boy. Because I'm gonna be able to talk to you about this. Because I think Luddite ism tends to show up in this room with the spearheaded by Mike Foose. Don't look over here.

Them shorts betray your Luddite behavior. I knew it. I knew it. I was on a clean pants. I don't wanna talk about it. So but, anyway, I feel like I'd be curious to say, like, do we have this wrong? If you, like, if you ladies have heard us talk about technology from you from where you sit, what you've grown up in, what you've seen, and however far you may have dipped your toes into technology, is there is there a different way that we should be thinking about it or that you're thinking about it? And so, like, do do you feel like you there are ways in which you think we could be thinking about this differently? Alright. I'm gonna be honest.

Compared to how most other teenagers would spend their screen time, I feel like I do it quite differently. I spend about 90% of my time on my phone staring at a Google Doc because I've decided that it's a good idea to write stories. It's a bad idea. Don't do it. Okay. But, like yeah. I got I got no say on this. You know, I'm gonna shut up now. It's a good start. Okay. Classic. It's a real good start. I I don't know. I don't know. Emma, do you feel like you

do do you have a per perspective on this that you feel like may differ from The Broom or from Mike's overly restrictive comparisons? Probably not really. I feel like it definitely can be, like, harmful depending on how much you use it and what you're using it for. But I also think that it's silly to pretend like anything you do on it just is inherently useless or a waste of time. Because, like, I write a lot too. I listen to a lot of music. And now that I do definitely waste my time on my phone, I do think like, it can also be valuable.

So Okay. I don't know. I feel like there's probably more value value than some people think, but it is more danger than a lot of kids think. Are most teens doing social media as opposed to, like, Google Docs? Or what what do they spend in their time on? I don't know. Social media. TikTok. They certainly don't watch Life The Oh, man. Why? See Life From The Path? They certainly don't watch Life From The Path? That's a tough cut, Greg. Think you mentioned what should be happening. That's what I do. Okay. So so the gut reaction is that there is there's a more nuanced way to look at it both in one, it sounds like both of you are hesitant to be lumped in with what you would say is a broad description of how teens use use their phone. So because there might be righteous ways of using it and because you're not necessarily

TikTok and YouTube and and all the stuff all day, you feel like you gotta be cautious that you don't get lumped into those categories. Does that sound fair? I mean, that sounds fair. And, you know, nobody wants to be lumped into a category that's getting the finger wag. But Okay. Right? I could see that. Okay. Alright.

But but the the the title of this thing was the spiritual battle of teen screen time. Kids' addictions to their phones isn't a legislative issue. Now I have seen that. Was it wasn't that didn't Iowa have something that they were trying to pass that restricted teen, like Probably. Phone use or even, like, how old you could be to have, like, a Facebook account or stuff like that? Well, like, they banned TikTok in Montana. Yeah. Wasn't that was that for security concerns? I thought so. They're worried about how Montana even noticed. Yeah. Hey. They got the secure they got that weather balloon first, and they said, we ain't doing this again. Cut to TikTok.

Do do you think people will just get tired? I mean, maybe it's just old man talking, but, like, at some point, won't we just get tired of all this crap and just turn them off? I don't think so. It's just gonna keep getting The thing is is, like, I it's the same is true for adults, though. Right? Like, this is where I find this conversation slightly unfair is because, like, I would I would prescribe the same thing to everybody, not just children. Right? But it's easier to to give screen time to your kids because that's what they're asking for, you know, but but, like, you go I don't know how many restaurants I go see and two people are sitting from across each other and they're on their phones. Yeah. And, like, nobody can pass a minute without

without something to do. Right? Like and so, like, the the brain never engages in, like, second level thought. Like, you keep riding the wave of the thoughts of others forever. Right? So, like, you can just keep where I mean, like, there are there is some fun and interesting aspects to that. Right? But, like, it does have limits where, like, you are merely a reflection of everyone on the Internet and, like, who you are is unknowable because you spend zero time, like, being you. You spend all of your time taking in what other people are doing all the time. Right? And so, like, it I think it it it honestly does feed into, like, some identity crisis stuff that we're looking at and, like, where people just have no idea which way is up because they will follow the wave of the Internet

to to its very end. Right? And, like, the same is true for adults. There's just as many dudes, you know, that that that I would work with that I'm like, get you got get off your phone. Like, go go cut a piece of wood or fix something or, I don't know, read the newspaper or, like, just sit on your deck and look at the sky. I don't know. Anything besides needing because it becomes a compulsion. Right? Where you're, like, you start to get anxious

because time is passing and you are not, like, taking in something. You can't just be still for ten minutes. Like, that can't be good for you. Right. Be digitally engaged and know I'm god. Yes. That's not that's not what it's here. That can't be right. Yeah. What's the what what's the gist of the article? What are they trying to what are they trying to get at? Let's see. New data and a bipart bipartisan consensus that phones are bad for kids may give parents pause. A growing body of research, though certainly not indisputable, has pointed out that smartphones with unfettered access to the Internet and social media have serious negative effects for younger users, particularly teenage girls.

At the end of May, surgeon general Vivek Murthy Vivek, that's a cool name, issued a formal warning and report about the effects of social media on child and teen mental health. Yeah. Okay. And then it kinda then it kinda rolls away. Then it creates anxiousness

and, yeah, all kinds of things. Social media, for sure. Right? Like like, school's rough enough, and then and then you're getting this you're taking all the rough parts and taking it home with you. Right? Like, the constant like, teenagers are hypervigilant in middle school and high school. They notice every little thing,

good or bad, and then they talk about it ad nauseam. And so, like, where you usually get a respite by going home and, like, getting in your own space around your own family or own people, right now, you're just at home listening to their opinions of you as you get no respite at all. Oh, okay. Here's here's a here's what I would liken it to. We went to a we went to a a dance. That's not a comp it's like a recital dance recital last week. And, you know, they had two hours of dancing, and, like, they had the some real tiny kids danced and then up to high school age. Okay? So at the end of the night, they're doing all these, oh, it's a great year. Oh, thanks to all the parents for their dedication, blah blah blah. And some cute little kid comes rumbling up at at the end of the thing and wants to talk into the microphone. And the teacher lets him say something and then says, like, I love you, dad, or something like this. And we're like, oh. And sure enough, three other kids bounce pop up because now they wanna talk into the microphone. But you look at these kids, and I've never seen any of these children in my life. And I look at these I look at two of those three kids. I'm like, nope. You don't wanna give that kid a microphone. Right? Because you're discerning. You know better than to hand a microphone over to a kid. They're just gonna, like, cut wind into it with their face or, like, yell into it. Like,

make weird noises and crap. And so you know better that though that that is not the right person to give the ability to soak up the time and attention of everybody in the room. Mhmm. K? And as a person holding the microphone, you have some to have to have some discernment that goes, no. This is this person shouldn't have this. Social media, especially, like, think of it from a in in an influential age ranges, It's just an open microphone where any kid can come up and cut wind with his face Yeah. To anybody they want to. And there's no one with any discernment going, you know what? I don't you shouldn't listen to this. And, like, if they were physically doing it in your space, you can just walk away, and you're not even subjected to it. But, like, even with social media, a lot of the times, you even if it's not being said to you, it's being said to others. It can be shared to you. And, like, you at least have to take it in to know to block it as opposed to, like, I can just be away from this dude who shouldn't have a microphone completely. Yeah. There's two other places that you should not have an open microphone situation, just adds up. Okay. One is karaoke at a bar that has less than five patrons. Yes. And two is an open forum toasts at a wedding reception. Oh. Oh. You should not have an open microphone in that situation. It's oh, sometimes a funeral. There have been yeah. Dan, have you run into some rough situations? Oh, man.

There's times I said, yeah. I think it's time for us to kinda end this and Time It's to wrap this up. Take a microphone back from a toast situation. Yeah. Where I'm just like, I absolutely refuse to let, like, cousin Gary come up and and and give his toast when he hasn't seen the family in fifteen years. And he's gonna talk about that whole fifteen years and give this is his forum for, like, giving his newsletter of what he's been up to for the ten plus years. Also, the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. That's all this is. Yeah. That's sometimes the least. That's open mic for all of Yeah. Oh, so Emma, do you mind me sharing an anecdote from your life over the last couple weeks? Sure.

Sure. You do mind or it's alright? You can go ahead. Okay. So interestingly so Emma had it wasn't this last week, maybe it was the week before, Had, like, a week of, like, less phone. So phone had to be downstairs all the time, and you could only use it kinda kitchen table ish, and you you could only use it for very kind of a restricted number of things. And, like,

there there was and I've told her this. This isn't a surprise. But, like, a significant change in her patience with her, like, brothers and brother and sisters and general, like, attitude and engagement with people around, like, with her family around her. And the reason I tell that story is because, like, she wouldn't have had she not taken that step and not had her phone, like, still kind of on her or close to her being used as often during that week, you would never have known because it doesn't ex like, just explicitly tie to phone usage. Like, it's it's it's not always happening just because you're using the phone. And the reason that struck me is is because I thought, like, how am I behaving in ways that I have no idea because I just don't have significant breaks from using my phone from whatever justifiable reason that I have it. My work is on my phone. People who need something from me, my friends are on like like, by the way that I connect where I'm gonna meet with people this week, it's all on my phone. Right? But, like, I I thought how I just it it it hit me very hard where I thought how many things am I blind to that I would not have any idea had I not seen

my daughter have an experience which, like, for no other explainable reason, softened some of the things that had felt like they become a little bit hard. I think that's definitely true because, like, your phone has an has a built in selfishness to it. Right. Like, because everything about you is in it. Right? And so, like and it is completely about you and people will say, hey, you know, the people I I that's how I communicate with people and blah blah blah blah. But, like, everything around you feels rushed because you need to get back to it. What if someone did message me? What if something did happen on Facebook that I need to see or Instagram or or or whatever? Right? Like, what if what if someone wants to get ahold of me? Hey, I got thirty minutes of free lives on this game. It only shows up, like, once every three days. I don't wanna I don't wanna drop that opportunity, you know? Or, like, what if I wanna I wanna listen to these songs or I wanna draw this thing? Like, all of it is whatever whatever is going on around I wanna get away from it and get back to my own stuff. And so you innately

become, like, self focused and self centered without actually meaning to. You know I'm saying? And, like, it it it does it creeps up on you, and you don't realize that's what it's done. Yeah. And I that was the point of telling the story is because, like, I wonder just how many it goes back to remember we were talking about how you get most irritated when you're interrupted from something you probably shouldn't have been doing anyway? Yeah. Like Right. Like so take that as a light as a compound that over my phone use for a given week. Like, how some things you might attribute to someone personality,

like, the phone is the new drunkenness. You'd like, ah, they've been drinking. Don't you can excuse their behavior. They've been drinking. Oh, you know what? I know they're impatient. They've been using their phone a lot. Right? Like, how many things about my personality has shifted and I don't even know it? I could be a better person than I'm behaving right now Yeah. Simply because I'm spending too much time on that phone. Yeah. You know Yeah. Go ahead, boo boo. I was gonna say, it's interesting. The so the other day, I I accidentally left my phone at home. Yeah. And I've I like, I've to be cliche, I felt naked. Like, I felt weird about it. Yeah. Because I was just, like, I don't remember the last time I, like, left my phone somewhere Yeah. And didn't have it. Like, we'd left home, went to church, went out to lunch, and had we're gone for a couple of hours. And I realized that, one, it is a megaphone for my insecurities because, like, red receipts are my, like, worst nightmare. Every time I could see that someone hasn't read a message that I've sent them or has read a message that I've sent them and hasn't responded, it wrecks my freaking day. Uh-huh. Because I'm just like, oh, no. They hate me. They must hate me. Like, they're obviously I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to them. The other thing was, like, I realized how present I was in the moment because everyone around me was on their phones. Right? Like, I'm literally I'm out to lunch with people, and I I, like, went to grab my phone from my pocket because everybody at the table was on their phone. And then I was like, oh, no. I don't have mine. Well, what do I do now? And I sat there in silence. I was like, this is what we are. And if I would've had my phone, I would've just been contributing in that. I would've been like, well, scroll, scroll, nothing nothing, like, random crap. Oh, a cat. Right. Yeah. Oh, cool. And, like, I don't have I I don't really have social media on my phone anymore for lots of reasons, but, like, I'll find other stuff. Like, I'll find articles or whatever. And, I I tell myself, I read my bible on my phone, and that's good. And and that's my reason for it. Alright. A lot of my work is on my phone, and so I keep that with me at all times. But, like, I legitimately had no reason to have it because I was with my wife. She had GPS. If anybody need to get ahold of me, they could've gotten ahold of her. And I was like, okay. I guess I don't have my phone. This is fine. And I started panicking in ten seconds. It was crazy. Yeah. I was like, I think I need to figure out a day where there's nothing work related that's gonna happen. So I'm not worried about that. I'm with my wife, and I don't have my phone because I wanna see what my life looks like if I'm not plugged in. A few days ago, I'm I'm in a small room with the former president of United States.

One of those, like, for most people, maybe once in a lifetime, you know, thing. Nobody is more than 40 feet away from the guy. Right? I mean, it's, like, it's small. I I was shocked looking around at how many not everybody, but but there were many people on their phones, you know, and I'm like Like, not just videoing them or something, but, like mean, there's something going on too, people taking pitch. But then I'd, they're looking down and I'm like, I make, like I have a very important email.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, look at the cat. The former president's throwing me, but I gotta check this. Oh, Microsoft's got a special. So these guys around you, the secret service, they're watching you, and you're looking at a phone. Yeah. I just thought it was weird. Mean, yeah, actually, not not everybody, but it it was more than I would think. Yeah. In a moment where you feel like, hey, man. But now Take this moment in. Yeah. You you know, when, like, like him or don't like him, whatever. It's still a big thing. Yes. Concerts are so bad for this. Like, people literally on their phone, like, the whole time is I don't know. This is that's where I get the Luddite tag. But, like, I'm telling you, like, it just the we're we're looking in every nook and cranny to go, why is the current generation struggling so much from anxiety?

And, like, we're holding it twenty four seven. This thing owns you. It calls you by name, puts a collar on you, and change you to it, where the fact where you leave without it, you get a little panicky. Right. And and and all for the fear of the unknown. Like, it's not a guarantee you're gonna miss that call. Like, we're we're like you're like, hey, man. I applied for a job, and it's a great job. And he said he was gonna call me back at 2PM. This is not the situation we're Right. Because that's your whole life now. Your whole life is whatever may come Right. I it may be here. It may not be here. In the meantime, I'll play a game. I'll scroll a song. I'll check the news. Whatever. I'll just wait. But the whole time, like, it it pharaohs you. You're you're owned by it, and we're okay with it. And then we go, I don't know why people are so stressed out and full of anxiety all the time because you're you're married to a nervous box. Like, the thing sits in your pocket and goes, you never know what I'm gonna do. You never know what I'm gonna do. Right. And you're like, well, what are you gonna do? I don't know. You don't know. Maybe I'll do something. Maybe I won't do anything. It's funny because, like, that couples with the fact that most of us don't even wanna answer the thing that it's, like, it's there for. I'm not even gonna reply to the email. Right. Exactly. Originally, it was it was a communication device, and rarely ever do we even use it for that anymore because I I'm not gonna tell who it was, but I called someone recently. Their phone went straight to voice mail. The voice mail said, if you're a doctor's office, a school, or someone else important, leave a message. If you're just a regular person, please text me. And that was the end of the voice mail. And I was like, am I a regular person? I'm

not a 100% sure if I make the regular distinction or not, but I'll send a text just in case. Yeah. But, like, everyone I know, people are like, I'll never answer my phone. I don't call me. Text me. Text me. But we want to be glued to these phones like it's an emergency at all times. But if the emergency actually happened, we probably wouldn't pick up. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, ladies, let so let's bring it back around, though. So as you were talking about earlier, hey. I think there are righteous reasons for using this thing, valuable reasons to have it use it. So what are your recommendations as you see it on how to have a healthy relationship with your phone? Like, how and it doesn't have to be out to everybody else. Just think about maybe even just you. Like, what what do you think are the right, like, guidelines or ways of thinking about it? Well, at least for me, I think, like, the two weeks or whatever I had was really useful because, like, not only did it, like, help me

just to I don't know. It didn't really help me find other things to do. I still did, like, the same five things I would normally do, but I just did them for longer, I guess. But, like, it helped me to realize at the core what I wanted to use my phone for. So, like, for the first, I don't know, like, three days, I would, like, keep reaching for it. Like, I'm gonna check the weather. I don't care what the weather is. I can see out the window. I'm gonna check the news or I'm gonna scroll Pinterest or whatever.

And then, like, eventually, it got to the point where, like, at the end of the week, I was like, boy, I just really want to write it now. Or, like, you know what? It would be really convenient if I could look up some guitar chords right now. Like, the basic things, like, I wish I could look up a drawing reference. Like, the things that aren't really I'm not sure how to describe it. But, like, the more basic things that, like, in the end,

what do you want to use this for the most? And then Yeah. Trying to since then, I've tried to, like, constrict it to, like, mostly that mostly just using it for those things. So it helps you figure out, these are the things I intentionally go to the phone for and those are valuable things. There there's a bucket of things that I do not intentionally go to the phone for, which may otherwise pull me in. Is that You figured that out in a vacuum. That's cool. And then this is kinda going back. But I'm not sure this could be this is completely hypothetical.

And I just came up with this right now, so it could be completely wrong. I must be able to me too. But I was thinking about the anxiety thing. And I wonder if like, I don't think that can only be phones because my generation is not the only generation, like, using phones. Like, we've grown up with phones, but, obviously, like, we kinda talked about, like, usage is not just that. And so just in the back of my head, I thought, like, you know how every generation

the one before you is like, boy, you guys are just wrecking the world. Like like, even back in, like, I was reading this cookbook from the forties or something, and they were like, in America today, we eat more sugar than all the Europeans. This generation, we're just wasting. We're gonna become, like, largie or something. I don't even know what that word means. But if Largie? Yes. Me. But and so then I thought, like, is it possible that, like, every generation is, like, getting the hey. You're gonna your guys are just screwing this world up. But then it's built on top because your grandparents' generation think it too. So, like, every generation is just getting more and more. Wow. You guys are just messing everything up. Kids don't coal mine like they used to.

Kids don't coal mine like they used to. I wonder and then that's tied into the phones. Like, that's people like, now, like, my parents' generation and Revver are like, wow. You guys are just messing everything up with all your phones. And so, like, it's almost connected. So in a way, like, where it's just piling and piling. Doubled. Right. So the phones may be contributing, but then your parents' view of your use of the phones, like, makes it double anxious. And then your grandparents view and then your great grandparents view and, like, it just keeps going. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I know here's the thing though. It's, like, I am more frustrated with my generation and their phone use

than I am with the younger generations. Right? Because, like, I think the like, the way that technology is is going like, it's almost a disservice if you plan on keeping your kids off technology, like, really restricted because, like, their job's gonna be that like, all communication is going that way. Like, it's like like, there's there's a little bit of foolishness in there to being, like, look, we're gonna stick with the stone tablet. It's always been good. Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah. Know? And so, there's real focus. It's always been good to me. It's always been good to us. It takes a little time. I wish I didn't know Jeremiah. It takes so long to write his name. But, like, but but, like, I watch, like, people in my age that, like, are legit addicted to this phone, like, at work even. Like, they're supposed to be doing work. I don't know how many times I walk through a construction area and there's 30 guys and 25 of them are on their phone. Mhmm. And I'm like, we're paying you to be here.

Give me your phones. This is ridiculous. I shouldn't be I shouldn't be paying you a high hourly wage for you to stand around and be on your phone. You know? And so it it I find the whole thing, like, the anxiety thing, like, it's it's bearing itself out in youth. Right? But the truth is all adults have it. Like like and and their outlet for complaining about it tends to be social media. And and, like, it's just this never ending stream of gross because all they do is get stuck in their head and then feed it again. And, basically, like, if they're just sitting there feeding this wolf of anxiety all the time and looking for validation, and either they get it or they don't, and they come right back to the same well again trying for the exact same validation every time they're there. And so, like, I I I know the whole thing isn't bad. I know that. But, like, I think I think it's really as simple as calling a pharaoh a pharaoh. Right? Like, you know if it owns you. Just like drinking, just like just like whatever else thing that word that that god says you can do in moderation. Being largey. Being largey. Right? Like, know when food owns you? Don't you don't have to lie to yourself. You know when it owns you. Can you have a Twinkie? God mad at you? No. You have Twinkie? Fine. But, like, if it owns you, you probably shouldn't have that Twinkie. Same thing's true with the phone. Right? I feel like my phone own me owns me right now. Like, it's pretty easy to see that, like, I was sitting on the out on the on the deck with my wife. Finally got done doing a bunch of stuff. Right? I sit down, and I'm like, I'm a play Homescapes. Dinner's probably ten, fifteen minutes off. I'll throw a Homescapes game on. I sit down for thirty seconds, and then my wife goes, hey. Can you go do this? And, like, I'm instantly because

I was doing something I should play Homescapes. I was just wanting to play Homescapes. And so what a regular request is, like, hey, Mike, can you go grab me this spoon or something? I'd be like, sure. I'll get spoon. No big deal. Except for if I already decided I was gonna hang out with my phone, and then now I'm irritated with my loving wife because I have to stand up and get a spoon. That It sounds ridiculous. I mean, I feel like you'd be the same amount of mad if you were like, man, I can't wait to sit down and read this book. Oh, you want me to grab this spoon? But I'll just start reading this book. I think that's probably fair. That's probably a fair comparison. But I would probably say that, like, I would go to to the phone way more often than I would a book. Right? Like, when you're preparing to read a book, I'm like, I got some time set apart. This is my book reading time. It's a little bit more protected where the phone grabs your seconds, not your minutes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You might be interrupted a 100 times a day because you grab that phone a 100 times a day when you might have not have been so bold as to try to pick up a book except for maybe five seconds. Ten minute time period between dinner, it would almost been ridiculous for me to go, woman, I'm sitting down for a good read. I got ten minutes to go. Leave me be in my peace. I That's a little ridiculous. I do think then maybe this is, a separate problem where, like, if you're doing something so often

that like, something so often for a short short of time that you're getting interrupted, like, you should try and figure that out and just, like, maybe set more specific time, like, be more intentional about it. Because, like, I do this with the guitar. Like, I'll just pick up the guitar. Mom's like, I get what done with one subject to give it to mom, and then I pick up the guitar. And mom's like, why are you playing the guitar? Like, I don't know. I had a few seconds. And so, technically, I have no time to play the guitar right now, but I just picked it up. And, like, I'll do that 20 times a day. And every time I get interrupted, I'm like, come on. I'm playing the guitar. But, like so maybe it's just that instead of and I probably would be more successful and more make more progress if I actually just got everything done and then set aside specific time to play the guitar. And so I don't know if that applies to phone all the Like, you nailed it. Right? It's living with some intentionality, which means I own when I play guitar,

not the guitar owns me. And the phone is a much easier ownership. It's freaking squirrel. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That intentionality is huge on pretty much everything. Like and I think the intentionality also would help kind of, I don't know, undemonize the phone situation if if it became like, no. I know my thirty minutes or one hour of my phone time I get after dinner, after my chores are done, after homework's done, I sit out and for, like, my seven to eight, and I get some phone time, whether that's playing a game of Homescapes, whether that's looking up some drawing references, whether that's my time to, you know, grab a hold of a podcast that I've been wanting to get twenty minutes in whatever. But, like, the intentionality of that is a huge thing that helps you rather than chasing squirrels. You are cert you are you are constructing

your day with some thought behind it rather than just chasing squirrels all day. Yeah. Because it's a resource for you. Right? Like, drawing reference is cool. That's awesome. Or, like, hey, I'm trying to write a thirties detective novel. Right. I gotta listen to some things so I understand where we're at. Yeah. I looked up a Better Homes and Gardens from 1972, and I wanted to hang out with it for a bit. But when I scroll Pinterest, I actually feel worse about myself because I'm, here's all the things I should be doing. And then I just sit there and look and look and look and look. And now, well, you know what I accomplished? Nothing. Right? So, like, the like, if you wanna use I like technology for heightening

your life. Right. But, like, what it tends to do is becomes your life. That's I think that's that's the line. It's, when it starts to own you now some people be, like, well, I intentionally want my life to be nothing. And so I just wanna sit here and watch other people play Minecraft. You know what I'm saying? Like and so I in general, like, on that score, you're not contributing to the world anymore. You're just a big old consumer. And there's probably stuff behind that that's making you wanna do that anyway. For sure. I struggle so hard, like, not completely, but I struggle with the intentionality thing because it feels like planning, and I hate planning. I hate lists. Like, my mom, scheduling out our day. Like, okay. We're gonna do this. And I know I know, like, especially homeschool moms who are, okay. From nine to ten, you're gonna do this subject. And, like, I just hate it. I hate it so much. It makes me feel like I get that done. Gets the entire school going and working world, Emma. Like, everybody It's thing I don't do either of those. But, like like, having a an a school day from, like, here to here, that's different. But, like,

when you're like, okay. You have I just I don't know. I can't I can't make them for myself. I hate following them. And so then when I start and trying to be super intentional, like, planning out from the beginning of the day, Okay. So I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this. My in day instantly feels like, even if I have the same amount of time, it just feels gone, and I just hate it. When you're doing that planning, do you feel like there's a sense of failure behind it if you set it and you just don't stick to it? Like, if you set your day out that you've got thirty minutes or an hour to do something and you don't keep to it or you've got your your day planned out and you missed six things and so you're really angry at yourself by the end of the day, do you feel like there's a sense of failure in that for you? I think there is, but it's different than, like, my mom will will plan out the whole day Mhmm. And, like, intend to get all of it done, and she just won't have time because she over schedules everything. And then she's, like, ugh. And then she'll stay up late trying to get as much of it done. And then she won't feel like she actually got enough done. She'll just it'll feel unsuccessful. But like it's a difference I don't know. It's sort of a different

I don't know. It's a different sort of failure. Are you it's a is is it is it that, like, it feels boxed in? Yeah. Yeah. It just feels it feels, like, so controlled and so planned out that, like, there can't be any sort of, I don't know, organicness to it. And then then even if I do get to write for, like, the hour from eleven to twelve, then it just feels then I have to end at twelve, and it just feels so Yeah. And then I won't probably end at twelve, and then it's just like, oh, now now I've missed all my time to go read, and I really wanted to read today. I don't know. I just I don't work very well with that, but I feel like there's gotta be a way to be intentional without With allowing for flexibility. Yeah. Grace, did you have something on that? Yeah. I mean, this might just be a me thing, but, like, the fact that I have to make a list anyway means I've already failed at doing the task. So, like, I mean, it so it just makes me feel bad anyhow. Like, the fact What that I do you mean? Like, it would just organically happen so you shouldn't have to make a list? Yeah. Like like, I mean, I should have been able to get this done organically.

But, no, gotta have this piece of paper sitting on my wall that I look out and, like, I gotta do that. Dang it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lists often represent a a first step that otherwise could have been addressing the the main things. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Spent all this time making a list. I could have been doing the Yeah. Lists are just depressing. That's just what's the point? I mean, you guys aren't you guys aren't, like, missing on something that everybody else is killing it at. Just realize that first and foremost. Like, the the the vast majority of adults and working people in general suck at this. Like, they're just flat out terrible at it. Given any level of freedom, most people are terrible at actually coming up with a with a coherent list of things that need to get done and sticking to the task, myself included in that, by the So does that mean it ain't the phones then? Is it well, the reason I was bringing that question was was from the perspective of, like, the intentionality of making lists can enable the phone to be a positive force Yeah. Rather than just a negative squirrel chase all the time. Yeah. But I I think to to Emma's and this gets, I think, to the more nuanced place where we started,

which is that, like, the phone is a is the the most convenient and often most pernicious vehicle at sucking you in and keeping you in. Absolutely. But a guitar can do the same thing. Agreed. Yes. So could if you're in 1848, so could a paper doll that's been, you know, colored with a, like, two wax crayons. Too much time gardening today. Yeah. But a paper doll could still suck me in, honestly. Yeah. But it's way different. Right? Because, like, all that stuff I don't know. This is probably wrong. But but it's the consumer versus the producer thing to me. Right? Like,

there there's an imagination needed for the paper doll. Right? There's there's there's work for you to put into it, not necessarily even work, but effort and thought. Oh oh oh. I think it's the potential of bad that comes with the phone versus the potential bad that comes with garbage. The phone goes, I'm gonna shut off all my thought processes and just take in. I'm just gonna take in everything. Take in. Take in. Take in. Okay. Yeah. So the ability the those are two separate things, though. The ability to exploit your lack of intentionality is true for every one of them. Right. Agree. How dumb you're getting while being distracted is the distinction you're making. You're you're you're four hours into a subreddit hole versus four hours into now you've gardened a whole plot. Right. Yeah. Right? Like, I and you have no idea what you would actually Yes. I did just call you out. It Actually, that's four hours the other night looking at a 1919 cookbook while watching the original Frankenstein. Why are both of you reading some ancient cookbooks? It's interesting. I love this. I read the old cookbooks too. They spelled all the words weird and it kinda threw me off. But, like, it wasn't even that old, and so I was confused. But, anyways, it's really interesting. Yeah. They credited they credited the church ladies who were, like, who gave out the recipe. Every every single recipe has got, like, oh, and this came from missus Haversham. I'm like, sweet. Thanks, missus Haversham.

Hey. I have some of those at home if you'd like to I called dibs. I'm a bring them in. Are they from 1915? That's awesome. Alright. I've got like, so let's let's round it up. Right? Like, I I know that parts of this conversation are convicting to everybody in some certain way. But, like, is there a guiding principle, something you can keep in the back of your your head that that reminds you. Because, like, no one wants to be told how to do this. Right? No one wants to be parented this way.

Youth, especially, me, of of course. Right? Like, nobody wants to be told how to do this, but, like, you have to allow people to speak into your life in a way that goes, crap. That is true about me. And, yes, I think it is to my detriment. So how do I know when I'm when a like, a a better way to look at this? Use of technology for one. I well, so I think if if bucket number one is probably a very you

I need to be intentional about this, but, like, you tend not to know you were unintentional until you get on the other side of it. Right? So I I do think it is something okay. This is gonna seem maybe ironic is not the word I want. But, like, you're gonna have to intentionally look at your intentional use of the phone. Like Yeah. Something to think about at the end of the day and go, how did I do here? Isn't it ironic? Well, that's cool. Family rules, you know, like, hey, no phones during supper or something. You know? Yeah. Whatever you come up with after 08:00 or whatever. Maybe we just suck at making intentional things intentional anyway. So, like, if if I if I wanted to look at my day and go, what are the three things that I wanna get done every day? Like, I want these have to be intentional to me. And then everything else can pretty much fall where where it lay. Do you think we're intentional with nothing? Right? Like, if you were to say, look, I'm gonna I'm gonna play this guitar for half hour every day, and that is not one of the negotiables for me. Like and so I will find a place, and that that is gonna get written in stone. Everything else can get written in in in pencil, and I can move it as I as I need see fit.

I mean, yeah, it's big rocks and little rocks. It like, you gotta figure out what are the things you want to absolutely get done and be intentional about those things. Let everything else fall around. And most of the time, like, your life got your life responsibilities will dictate some of that for you. Yeah. Yeah. Right? That's the thing though. Was that, like, how many things, like, I would say the thing that that I make sure gets done every day is I go to work and do my work. But, like, that's not me being intentional. I I'm shackled to that. I have to do it. I'm accountable to somebody else. Like, the but, like, what do I do with my non controlled time? Yeah. There's no reason to be upset about the work thing or the school thing. You already have to do it. Yeah. It's gonna happen. You're fooling yourself. You helped me a ton back in the day with was the old Franklin Planner system. It was the the a b c one two three thing. Right? You write everything you're gonna do down. Make a list. Sorry. Give an a to everything that has to be done. A b to, like, yeah, really should get done, the c to, like, I'd like to do it, but it's not important. And then you go back and go one, two, three, go to the a's, what has to what's first. And you'll do and then and then That's what that minutes.

That's a Franklin Planner. Yep. Covey. Somebody did that today. Yeah. I saw that somebody at work did that. They go, hey. I put this Covey? I I put it it was my boss. He put a spreadsheet together, and he's like, I look. I put these into a, b's, and c's, and then I rank the list. And I'm like, what's kinda handy? I have a little candle. I I I still every once in while, I'll buy the old Franklin I just because I do that. It became the big rock little rock conversation for me. Like, that was another Franklin Covey conversation was the big rock little rock thing. Man, this is It what was put you put the big rocks in the vase. Like, it it's it's it's put a bunch of little rocks in there, and then you can't fit the big rocks on top of it. You So put the big rocks in first time in and then dump in all your little rocks, and then they fill it around it. And so you get everything you need to into one vase. And that was time management of scheduling your big things and letting little things fall around it, like the random email that you have to respond to or the, you know, video clip that your friend sends you that's thirty seconds long. Like, let it fill around thing. So that's the great point. Right? Because the thirty second video gets to own you right now as soon as it shows up. That can't be right. Right? Like that Yeah. It's a filtering system of priority. That's right. You've gotta be there's a the the underpin here like, there's a discipline that's underpinning to a lot of this that we just lack in general. Which means it's a skill, not a talent. Like, you have to learn Oh, absolutely. Yes. 100%. This is something you have to be intentional about is getting to and stuff like that, like getting disciplined to to to do things. Like, what are the things that have to get done that you absolutely will not budge? And discipline is what dictates that. Because even if you say I have to get this done, a lot of times, we still don't. Like, it gets thrown to two days from now or a week from now or we forget it entirely. It's a lack of discipline. Yeah. I actually I think I think thinking of discipline as a skill, not a talent is important because lest you go, oh, I'm not very good at that. I'm not disciplined as a person. Well, then you need to work on that. Yeah. Like You brush your teeth? Work on that first. For the sake of everyone. Yeah. For the yeah. But, like, legitimately, that skill versus talent situation,

like, take those little things and make them, like, intentional. Like, we we brush our teeth. Do it two times a day. Make your bed in the morning. That's why, like, navy dudes will always say that too. We're, like, making your bed in the morning and making certain it is done 100% of the time is one of the biggest things you can do to, like, start developing that discipline because it's no longer a thing that, like, yeah, I might do that or I might not do that. It is 100% when I wake up, it is made. And so when you come home, it is it's there. It's done for you, and you can you can feel that when you get home and you get to get hop into a nice Because the freedom of not making your bed, it's false freedom. Right. What it makes you feel like is you're in control whether you get to make your bed or not. But, really, what's in control is your laziness Yes. And your irresponsibility. Why would you not do something that's good for you with the control that you have? That's being foolish if you're willingly choosing not to do something that is that is constructive with the freedom that you have to whether do it or not. That's right. It's this it's this it's a story of sin. Right? It's it's not on the same level. Right? But, like, this is what sin looks like. Sin looks like false freedom. Right? It says Yeah. I get to make any choices that I want, and I am better because I am free. And, like, what you're basically doing is allowing shackles to come,

and you're slowly getting pinned down. Like, because it eventually catches up with you. Everybody that goes down a road of sinful behavior, it always ends up putting you putting you in a place you didn't wanna be. Right? And because you thought, well, freedom got me here and what and what Christ is offering is actual freedom. And he says actual freedom comes with these ways and comes with these thoughts and comes with this responsibility, And that's what actually produces freedom. But, like, easy freedom usually comes with a cost that you didn't had no intention of paying. Yeah. There's legit freedom daily being in the word and daily praying to God and having that conversation, the relationship with him that is is constant and disciplined, not because it's it's something that that has to happen or you it's your checkbox. It's because that's your plug in to where real freedom lives. Yes. I don't know if it's gonna make it sense, but, like, at least for me, not making my bed doesn't feel like a freedom, but it feels like a shackle if I have to. And so, like, I think most of that time because I don't it's not like I feel free most of the time when I'm lazy. Once I or, like, when I don't clean my room when my room's a mess, it just feels like normal. But then when I have to clean it for, like, the sixth time this week because it just keeps getting dirty,

cleaning it again and again and again feels like the shackle. Speak to it, Mike. Your slob. Yeah. So, like, you got a problem with authority. Yes. Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I got something to say on the bed thing. Me too. But but go ahead, Grace. I mean, like, I mean, I usually don't make my bed because I because I sleep with, like, my my leg wrapped around the blanket and, like, hugging the blanket. Yeah. So, like, I don't even sleep under the blanket. So, like, I mean, what's the point of making it? I'm gonna rip it up the second I get in That statement isn't about, like, hey, you should make your bed because, like, that's the way you're going to sleep in it. I do the same thing. I get that. But, like, the fact of the matter is it's doing it something intentional and being disciplined about it and using that as a way to build discipline in your heart and in your mind of things that have to get done constantly.

So that as you develop that concept of discipline in your life and getting better at doing even mundane and unnecessary things, you build that that it's worked for me in in certain ways of, like, things I have to get done and things I know need to be done. I do them every day because it's a pain in the butt, but I like but it it helps me build that. I feel more disciplined if in in other things that I have more freedom in, if things that really don't matter, I'm still doing and creating routines and things like that. Feel like you'd just be more useful or I guess I guess it'd be better if if, like, instead of, like, making my bed every morning, which I'm never gonna use, I'm just gonna get in the bed, tear it up, blankets around like, legs around the blanket anyway. If I do if I if I'd, like, you did something that was actually useful to me, like, went downstairs and, like, make breakfast. But that's the that's the that's the whole point. It's like the discipline that's being pushed on you in this season of life, right, is teaching you a skill so you can use that discipline for the things that you want to do later in life. The point is not to make your bed. The point is learning how to be disciplined in something. And it's even better of a lesson when you're being disciplined in something you don't want to do. Right. Because that is actually discipline. And your life will be full of things you don't want to If if my discipline was get up every day and drink a soda at 7AM, that's not discipline. Because I wanna do that anyway. Rough stuff. Getting up at 7AM pressure. I hate these 7AM sodas. That's right. But, like, the discipline is because there's gonna come a time. Right? And this is a skill that almost no one learns anymore. Right? Because you don't have to. But, like, you find people that are successful at something, it's because they can discipline themselves into doing something they don't want to do. Because every road every road to the thing that you want, it has discipline. There's bumps. It has it has discipline in it to get past bumps, to get to get past setbacks. Right? And if you don't have the skill of being disciplined in something, then you will never achieve what you wanted to, and you will feel like a big fat failure. I can tell you that I grew up in an incredibly undisciplined house. I just flat out did. Like, my parents did not push anything on me. I didn't have a lot of chores that I had to get done. I wasn't responsible for basically anything in my house. I didn't need to make my bed. I like, legit, my parents didn't even do the whole checkup on, like, hey. Did you brush your teeth situation? Like, I was terrible at that stuff when I was 10, 11, 18 even. Like, it's gross, but it was the truth. I grew up very undisciplined.

And as an adult, what I find is is I find myself lacking when I have to do things and I need to get things done. I do not have that basis or that that that that discipline bone in my body. It has been a fight as a grown up to have to go, well, I have to do the dishes today. Well, why? Well, because if I wait six days, it's gonna be gross. I have to cook today. Well, why? Well, even though I don't want to, it's because if I don't, I'm gonna have an excuse to go get fast food for tea time. Because you think when the time comes, you'll step up. You think if I'm ever in this situation where, like, I should check my tire pressure before I leave, you know, I'll just do it because that makes all kinds of sense. Only to find out that you've gone undisciplined your whole life, you will look at the tire and go, I don't know. I bet we could make it till I get back from the gas station. And then your tire blows. And then your tire you know what I'm Like, it's because it really is a skill that you have to learn. And so, like, understand that, like, it is harder when it's coming from somebody else. It's better when it comes from you. Right. But you don't have skills to do it right now. Otherwise, you would be doing it on your own. And when you can come to a situation like having to make your bed, something that means nothing and something you really don't wanna do and something that just seems like a pain in the teeth, but you get it done and disciplinely and with discipline, continue to do that over and over again and build those those habits that are maybe mundane and may not be changing to your whole world when there are things that could change your whole world, that are hard things that you don't want to do, but you've built that concept of dis discipline as a skill in yourself.

It it is so much easier, and it is much less trudging up Mount Everest than it would have been if you wouldn't have had that undergirded concept of discipline even in the light of things you don't wanna do or don't matter. And the process sucks, though. It sure does. It's hard. So every every few years, I I teach through the class of spiritual disciplines, you know, fasting, meditation, solitude, so forth. And I'm doing I'm starting it again on Wednesday. And I think I got 35 people signed up. I mean, they're just blocking to it Oh, wow. Because

we're not disciplined. Nobody does it. And they're all like they're they're craving it. It's like, I I want spiritual growth. Well, it's making your bed every day except it's instead of that, it's fifteen minutes of reading. Right. It's it's actually praying rather than saying, oh, yeah. I I got a prayer life. Know? It's on my list. And it's like, no. You don't. And and and it's creating those disciplines spiritually that that

radically transform your life. We're waiting for an experience, a mountaintop, or whatever. No. It's the disciplines that that actually do that, that guide you, that that do everything you need in life for you to have a connection with God and a and a thriving relationship that requires discipline, not not the e chord. Right? I mean, it it's it's it's it's through the disciplines, and and we're terrible at it. I say I am terrible at at at Every frustration in my life is based on an area where I'm undisciplined. Yeah. Every single one. Me too.

Dang. I'm convicting myself. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not throwing you two under the bus saying, hey, you're young. Like, get this down. I'm 31 years old. I turned 32 next month. I'm still struggling with this hardcore, and I wish that I would've grabbed ahold of this thirteen years ago. Like, I really wish I many things, but this is one of the biggest ones that, like, my life has been directly affected in negative ways because of my lack of discipline. I mean, if it adds any light to this conversation, I've been making myself get up and make breakfast in the mornings. I hate eating breakfast in the mornings. It makes me feel sick, but the but I don't I don't like I don't like food the cook it better. Yeah. Maybe. That's that's good idea. But, like, I've making myself get up and make breakfast because, I don't know, breakfast is the most important meal of the day or whatever. And, like, I'll end because most days, I'll end up, like, forgetting for like, I'll I'll get focused on something, and then I won't eat till, like, 3PM. Be like, man,

I didn't eat any I didn't eat anything. But but, like, sometimes some days, I'll be like, oh, I mean, I had breakfast earlier. I cooked something. I dirty the pan, so But it's I cook That's that's the thing though. Like, when you get to walk back into your bedroom and look at that bed and go, oh, yeah. And, yeah, it's the concept if it's a quick accomplishment too. Like, I do I don't know if you guys struggle with, like, feeling like you never get anything done. I guess mine's the concept of staying alive by eating. I suppose that's fair. And regardless of the breakfast is the most important meal of the day situation, like, I'm proud of you for being intentional about that. Yeah. I think that's the big thing there is you said you wanted to do something, and you're doing it. That's huge. And another comment, the bad thing is it's seeing something done. It what I struggle in a lot of the times is I feel like my tasks are are very, like, in the clouds,

and I don't really get a lot of a sense of completion in a lot of situations. And so what what happens is, like, I feel like I've got a thousand open pages but no read books. And so it drives me nuts because I'm like, I feel like nothing's actually happening for me because I don't have any measure of success with what's going on. But if I've got little things like I got my dishes done or walk into my room, my bed's made or I made certain I cleaned the bathroom this week. Like, it's I can show something is done. My brain can go Success. And the concept of success is not just push past the horizon every time. I can see it, and it's done. I guess I guess that's I guess that's a bit difficult for me to get. I mean, like, as a teenager, I had there I mean I mean, I have two trains of thought that can switch at any second. One of them is, I'm 15 years old. I should not like, there is no reasonable expectation for me to have finished, like like, I mean,

I guess what am I thinking of? What's the word? Like an example metaphor? I don't know. Give me a second. Okay. Okay. I here's the thing is what I was thinking of while you were talking is, like, this is why this is why I like to mow the yard. Right? Alright. To see it get done. Right. Because it's done. Yep. And, like, there's no surprises. Like, maybe the mower break down in once in while, but, like, it's repeatable. Yep. And it's there's a pattern to it and it's and I can and when it's done, you can get and go, it's done. Right? And, like, it's the same reason, like, I like mundane task because you're like like, you're as you get older, your responsibilities are a thousand open books. And none of them are, like, coming to fruition, and you're like, I just want to see an accomplishment somewhere.

Your brain needs that. Yeah. And so, like, it's like, we don't have any carpet, but, like, vacuuming is super relaxing for people. Right? Like, you just go and it's I volunteered to clean the pool because I just like to see a difference for me have had been there. A task, I finished a task, and I can I can mark where it was done? Yes. And you can say, like, there's a there's a there's a delineation here. Right? This happened and, like, there's a difference for me have be have been there. And, like, even if you pick something stupid, like, leaving soda cans throughout the house or something, you go, you know what? From now on, no soda cans. Right. I and then you do it and then you walk into every room going, I don't see no soda cans. Nailed it. You know what saying? Picks I mean, you could do anything, but, like, it it really is a skill. It's a skill and it's a tough skill to learn. Is there a to help someone feel accomplishment in, like, small things? Because I think, like, if I take my room for example, my room's almost always a mess. Mhmm. It takes me forever to clean it, and then before I know it, it's a mess again. And so, like, I don't feel successful when it's clean. I don't walk in. Like, I'll like it for a day, and I'll try to keep it for a day, but then, like, it's clean. Okay. And then but once it's dirty again, then I'm like, ugh, now your room is dirty again. And so, like, I only end up feeling the failure end. This is sin, so grace should abound.

So Maybe that's where the list comes in because you you at least get to check it off. There's there's an exhaustion that comes with, like, I'm always constantly having to do this. I'm always failing this because I never do it right. And it's been six days since I cleaned my room and it's a nightmare again. Right? Like Or even, like, even if think of it, it could be as innocuous as, like, the laundry and the dishes never stop at my house. Right. Six people in my house. Right? Hey. The the dishes are done. Weren't they just done, like, six hours ago? Right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. No. Absolutely. I I think that that when it comes to that, like, part of it is there's a discipline to not letting get dirty again. Like, if you're walking in there throwing everything on the ground and going crazy on your art art counter or whatever, like, throwing paint at the wall or whatever, oh, man. My my place is dirty again. That's kinda on you, love. Like, you gotta be there's there's a level of, like, hey, don't throw your clothes on the ground every time. Get a hamper. Like,

if The hamper's your hamper. If there's a bunch of trash around, get a trash can. And if you have a trash can, use it. Like, there's a certain level of intentionality. The trash can is also full. Yeah. Take the trash out. So so here's the real situation, though. Break it into little things. Like, break it into little tasks that you can you can feel accomplished for. Because if your task is constantly clean the room and it feels like you're always have to do it over and over again and it never never is never done, and then sometimes it gets super messy, so it feels like a failure situation. Right? And those suck. Those weigh heavy, and it hurts. Break it into smaller things. It is no longer zero or 100. It is zero to five means I picked up the trash from my dresser.

10% may be I picked up that shirt on the floor. If it's gotta be that, I've been in that situation before. Because if I'm being very honest here, when I feel super depressed in situations, my room is reflected in that because it's the easiest place to give up. It is the easiest place to give up on any concept of discipline. Judging me. Yeah. Exactly. Any concept of discipline, any concept of, like, responsibility or failure, I'm too exhausted, too tired because everything's crazy. Everything's always on fire. I don't wanna have to deal with this. In those moments, I've been in a situation where it I've had to be dug out of a room before, and I I hate saying that. It was it was a time in my life when I was very depressed. I was covered in food bags and trash and everything like that. I've it was it was disgusting

where I was living, but someone helped me by coming in and helping me clean the room so that I didn't feel overwhelmed because it wasn't just me doing it. But what I had to do in that moment was go, how do I make certain this never happens again? Okay. Well, if it's exhausting to go zero to 100, what's five percent? Five percent is I picked up that trash in that section right there. 10% is I picked up the clothes off the floor. 25% is I wiped down my mirror. Right? Like, 50% means that there's no trash. There's no, you know, random clothes on the floor. I know I've got laundry in the hamper, but I'm better than I when I was at 20%. And it's allowing yourself to no longer just put success way off over past the horizon. It can be right in front of you by you rightsizing the things that need to get done. And when you have that kind of concept where it's like, wait. I went from zero to five. I'm not at a 100, but I feel good about the fact that I'm infinitely better having gone zero to 5%.

And five to 10 may not seem like a lot, but there's improvement there, and I can be proud of myself for that. And when I'm able to take those kind of steps to make a bigger step to what you go from zero to five, it's crazy. You go from five to 25, it's nuts. You go from 25 to 75% of the stuff is done, your life is changed because you take advantage of the fact that I may not be perfect, but I am miles ahead from where I used to be. I mean, like, I mean, with the room in the soda can thing, though, like, a, the the soda can shouldn't be in the house anyway. The fact that they're there or, like, the room shouldn't be dirty anyway. The fact that it's dirty or the soda cans are there in the first place means I'm already failing. No. Right. No. The reality of the situation is whatever that may be, that doesn't mean that you can't change now to the next second. Yeah. You can look at it the past and go, yeah. It shouldn't have been that way in the first place, but having that conversation with yourself in that moment does not fix anything. It's also not a failure. Right. Like, it's it it it it does not rank that way at all. Right? Like You're putting it that way. Yes. And and then and to Buva's point, like, this is exactly what it looks like to build a bible reading Absolutely. Discipline. Right? Like, you don't have to go from zero to Billy Graham today. Right? Like, get a chapter in, bro. You know what I'm saying? Read a psalm. Yeah. Read a psalm. Right? And this is what it looks like. And and and, like, all this disciplines are disciplines,

and they work the same way through spiritual disciplines as they do through regular living disciplines. It's like, you you gotta start somewhere, and you just start. Right. You just start. Like, I I I mean, to be real honest, my wife nails this. She's a very disciplined person. I am not Mhmm. At all. And, like, I've never been. But I say that because, like, I just don't try very hard, you know, until I start looking at at at at her discipline. And I'm like, well, I could grab my pants. Like, it doesn't have to be obvious where I took off my pants. You know what I'm saying? For evidence later, I could just pick them up and put them somewhere. I didn't understand the connection in right there. You said my wife is a really good bible reader, and I could grab my pants. No. No. Discipline. I didn't say bible readers are just skills. I said disciplined person. Right? Like, likes like, yeah. Okay. Like, she is a very good bible reader, by the way. But, like, but She doesn't, like, pants on the ground ever. Yeah. And she doesn't. Like, I don't you don't ever find her pants just hanging around. And so, like, it's still it's just it's it's what boob is nailing it. Right? Like, this is what it looks like to start bible reading. Like, you don't go up going, god, I know I'm a failure.

I'm gonna try to put down the all of Corinthians today. How does this offering smell to you? He's like, useless. It smells useless to me. Right? Like, I can't do anything with this. Smells lukewarm because tomorrow, you're not gonna get But find me when you read three verses and then prayed about it. Find me there. And let's start with that today and see what that looks like. Yeah. But then when I start with the little things and when I fail at those, when I inevitably inevitably will, then it just feels even worse because you're like, now you can't even do the smallest bit.

I understand that. I do. And here's here's the thing is is it sounds like there's a self imposed failure on these things that's coming from another place. Right? Like, nobody wakes up in the morning and feels failure at the fact that they didn't pick up the the pop can on the floor. There's more stuff happening. And so there may be there may be a level of conversation that needs to happen to go, what kind of expectations do I feel exist? What kind of expectations do I feel like I'm being told I'm failing at? What kind of expectations do I feel like I'm telling myself I'm failing at? And grace abounds in a lot of these conversations because, like, you're never gonna be a 100% perfect. It's impossible. You will not be that way. But, like, there is success in zero to 5%. That's why I was saying that. Like, even if the next day, you fail at the 5%, okay. Guess what? There's another next day. There's another next day after that. Yeah. And it sounds like self imposed failures, like, that aren't really failures. I mean, like, I mean, when you said, like, what expectations are other people putting on me? I mean, like like, I probably should be following those expectations.

Agreed. Like, I'm following the expectations of a 40 year old man, and I'm a 15 year old girl. Who has more knowledge in this situation? Probably not me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're rightful expectations in your life that you should be living up to, and, yes, you should be rising to the occasion in those moments. But, like, if if that conversation is going to where you feel like you're failing at all times even in little things that you're imposing, there's a conversation we had that goes, hey. How can I right size this situation? How can I rise to the occasion still? Because I don't believe the answer is, well, no expectations for everybody because it doesn't feel right half the time. Yeah. You gotta rise to it. Like, there is probably some 40 year old to 15 year old stuff that you aren't doing great that you need to get better at. Like, there's no doubt about it. But it's not it shouldn't be every day as a war zone when it comes to expectations because, like, I didn't clean my room today. Like, that's not that's not a level of peace that we're called to have and and and feel. Like, there's some stuff that you need to rise to, and there's some stuff we always need to get better at and continue to iterate to be better and better and better as we grow up and mature. But, like, if every day is I'm crippled by failure and anxiety,

there's something going on. I mean, I feel like I feel like most of the time I'm mad at myself for being mad at myself. Like, what is this pity party? Am I a sitcom character? What is this? Yeah. Like, what like, like, this is what people in TV shows do is they feel as they is they feel better. This is a character trait. I'm a real human being. I'm I, like like, I I can pull myself up by my bootstraps and here I am sitting, like, sitting in my pity. Do what am I doing? Well, so Do you wanna know where a lot of go ahead, Ben. Sorry. Yeah. Do you know what's interesting, Grace? Is that, like, there's almost a little bit of emotional list building in there. You know I'm saying? Yeah. Don't say don't say that word. Not list. I know. Like, I that's that's that's what what hit me is, like, it's interesting because sometimes we spend a lot of time in our own minds trying to sort out where things have hey. Where do they go wrong? Why can't I do any better? Blah blah blah. When you know what you could do? You just do the thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, the the thing that's that triggered all the all the stuff instead of the emotional list building go, okay. I I can't seem to get it right, but someone brought it to my attention. I go, you know what? I am on it. I'm gonna go do this thing right now. And then you're at least five steps ahead of sorting out why you didn't do it yesterday, but you you took care of it right away type of thing. Like, because I think that is there is a load there is a load in here that, like, tries to resolve a current problem and then why it's been a problem. Like, it's a very kind of psychoanalysis

thing. And but, like, there's a this was part of what I was thinking when the example god is super gracious, but, like, sometimes your parents aren't. And Right. Yeah. That's true. And sometimes your sometimes your spouse isn't. Sometimes you're not to yourself. Sometimes you're not to yourself. Here's the thing. Sometimes you like, what what we mistake grace doesn't always mean, hey. Just let it go. Right. Like, if I if I put pants and I left them on the floor fifteen days in a row, does it make sense when my wife goes, look, man. You just need to get it right. Like, it doesn't mean you suck as a person, but you have been sucking at this. Yeah. This pants situation needs to resolve. Right. And it's and it's okay. And, like, that's the thing is is reduce

is is we gotta be careful that we don't put too much of a load on hey. I I don't have to pants problem doesn't mean I suck as a person, but it does mean I suck at the pants thing, and I do need to fix it. I was so bad at this when we first got married. So bad about this. Right? She'd bring up the smallest thing about me, and I would take it as, like, you treat me as if I'm the worst husband ever. Right? Like, I would I would turn it into this huge thing where, like, I'd like, there was no room for her to speak into my life because I was so sensitive to the fact that I had screwed something up. And, like, it would create massive problems out of nothing. Right? Because I was I don't know. I had I'd I had no confidence in myself. I was worried about, you know, people thinking less of me. I was self imposed failures left and right, and I I wore them heavy. And so the the It had to be rough. You guys were kinda barbaric. Well,

didn't know about stories of your bachelor years. Oh, man. And so but, like but the thing is, it only mattered when I met when I ran into somebody that I cared about their opinion. Right? Like, I mean, Ben come say the same thing. I'm like, go away, Ben. Yeah. You know what saying? I wanna talk about that. Not to not to get hyper emotional on it, but you guys know me well enough. I'm going to. When it and and you can you can call upon this as something that may may seem similar, but this is my experience and see if anything sniffs similar. You don't have to be identifying where I'm at. A lot of the times when I have, like, an overwhelming sense of failure on even little things, when I take a step back, that's not the main thing. That's not the actual problem. That is symptomatic of something else that's going on. Whether it is a depression in my life that I've got going on where I feel generally

worthless or don't feel like I deserve to be in the circles that I'm in or have the relationships that I'm in or whatever, I feel like I didn't pay the cost of existence to even be in a place where I could even think to myself to be able to do a normal thing, like clean my room or, like, do my homework or get my chores done or something like that.

It's it is it is a symptom of a bigger thing. And so when I find myself in a place where I'm undisciplined and everything feels exhausting and everything feels like a failure and I feel like I can't even do the little things, rarely ever is that the real thing. It's one step backwards to where I go, okay. I've gotta get my base set where I'm like, none of this situation, eliminates my worth as a human being. Like, I'm worthy of being in the conversation. I'm worthy of being in the mask that I'm taking up and the air that I'm breathing. If I can hold those things to be true that that that I I belong here, then it's no longer a situation where now I'm failing and everything. It's like, well, if that's off the table to be something I have to fight through, then it's just the next thing is, well, I just gotta get something done. And it's not so exhausting anymore because I'm not sitting here having to fight for for my own worth. When that's taken off the table, my next fight can be all of my brain goes into get the thing done. Okay. The thing's done. Move past it. Even if I failed at it a little bit, there's grace to be had that I put forth effort, and I did it. And I started doing it. Whether, like I said before, it's the 5% of something or it's 80% of something.

It's no longer I'm fighting to be worthy of this. It's just normal living. And, like, when I feel worthy of the conversation and whether when I know that god's got me and I've got a firm foundation, a lot of this stuff starts to solve itself because I'm no longer having to fight to be there. I belong there. I'm just doing normal stuff. I'm I'm realizing that this is probably the source of a lot of my problems because I just thought and it kind of fits with what uncle Mike said, is that I think when I feel like I failed Yeah. Then I feel guilty for failing. Right. And then guilt makes me defensive. And so my mom's like, why didn't you clean your room? Then I start arguing with her. Yep. Like making up all these reasons. I start defending not cleaning my room like I think I shouldn't have. Well, why should I clean my room? Doesn't matter to me if it's clean. When in reality, I just feel guilty for not cleaning my room. I think that's an incredibly mature conversation that you just had with yourself to go, like, maybe this is the reality of what's happening. And, like, being an adult and being mature and growing up, part of that is to understand that, like, the thing that's most present here, like, the big thing that's blowing up or the thing that's most prevalent or most present in front of my face is not actually what's happening. There's something back here that's going on. Why am I angry in this moment? Okay. Take a step back. Where's that anger coming from? Did I do something that I failed at? Did I even is is failure even a conversation to be had? Yeah. Why is this word even here? Why am I even thinking that failure is present? It's not. It's not a it's not a pass fail situation. Dude, I should've cleaned my room. I didn't. Why should clean my room Yeah. Rather than just sit here. Failure. I just didn't do it. Yeah. You didn't do it. Okay. Live in that. Give yourself grace, but that doesn't mean you don't go clean your freaking room. Most I mean, I'm at my worst when I'm feeling guilty. Absolutely. Absolutely. Guilt.

Yeah. The reason that the lord I just yeah. Exactly. You see that a lot in in addiction where when people Yes. Have tried really hard to not do whatever the addiction Yep. And then they do it and they fall, then they feel terrible, then they're all known. I'll just go, you know, and they do more. It's just a circular thing. The angriest moments between you and I have been in my guilt. Absolutely, 100%. When I'm guilty of something, I I lash out. Hey. He's talking to Mike. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Talking to Mike. Sorry. Yeah. That's true. I lash out. I lash out in guilt. That's exact same creature. Like, this is we we all do this. Yep. Grace, what were you gonna say? I was gonna say that I mean, a lot of times, I'll use honesty to get out of a butt chewing. Like, they'll be like, hey. You were supposed to do this thing. Why didn't you do this thing? And we're like, because I'm a lazy idiot. I I usually usually I don't don't add the idiot part, but I like but most most often, except for when I've done something stupid that I know I shouldn't have done. But, like, most of time, it's because it's, like, it's because I'm a lazy and available human. That's why. Like, so you should go do this thing. I'm like, yeah. I should go do the thing. Yeah. But but I but I think you're right. But, like, if you started out

with self deprecation and the thought that it was a failure and not just a miss, like, it just it holds on too long. Right? Like and it stops you us. Like, it stops us as people from getting the thing done that we even intended. Right? Like, it's just like the infraction pays 10 times the cost. It's a horrible roulette wheel. You know what I'm saying? Like, you finally win, but now the cost of it of the fail cost so much. And no matter how hard you try, you're never gonna nail it every time. So now you're holding 10 times the guilt all the time. Yeah. And it's often 10 times I go back to your example. Think of how many times, like, you didn't do something that you're supposed to do. This is not for you in in general. This is in general, I guess. But, like, you don't do something you're supposed to do, start defending yourself. And now for having not done one thing, now you're in, like, a long conversation, drawing out. You're saying stuff you probably shouldn't say. Yep. Rising up people's anger. Like, the cost of not having done the one thing and then gone to bat about it is 10 times more than going, yeah. I missed that. I'm gonna take care damn well. You should you could've done the thing. You purposely did not do it. You're like, I didn't pick up that pizza box. Man, I hate long conversations. Like like, I'll I'll always try, like, I'll I'll get called and say, hey. Why didn't you do this thing? And then it turns into a whole a whole conversation about, like like and see? And and you and you guys don't do the things like this. I'm like, like, okay. I get it. I messed up. Can we stop talking? I'll do the thing. I'll make you happy, and then we don't have to and then you don't have to give me the roast no more because it can I can I amend this? No. Let me feel better. The the the guilt and the failure and the grace conversation really kinda does mirror itself in my walk with Christ too. Because, like, if I'm stuck in guilt and failure and how crappy I am and, like, how I'm never gonna do this right and I'm never gonna get to the point where I where I where I need to be, I start sinning like crazy. Like, I literally just go, what's the point? Like, what is the point if I'm going to fail at this forever? And I suck because there's no situation in which I don't, so I might as well just go off the freaking deep end. Yeah. But the lord comes in and he goes, that's not the conversation here. Right. You're having who are you talking to? I completely eliminated this concept of failure if you call me your king and your god. I have erased it from from the situation.

It's not on your scales any longer. My grace comes with the fact that, yeah, you're going to screw up, but that doesn't give you a pass. That means you still try to get better at this, and you and you you you build yourself in maturity, and you grow in things like this. The lord has completely taken away the the the consequence of sin, but that doesn't mean you get to act like a boob. Like, you gotta figure it out and and live your life. It's not a failure when you screw up. I mean, it is don't take it like crazy. Like, there's no such thing as sin. I don't believe that. But, like, it's not failure from the perspective of, like, it's worth it to just dump jump off the deep end. It just means get back on the freaking road. Like, the Lord has taken that away from you. Stop living in sin and failure and guilt forever. Get back on the road and walk with him. Yeah. You know, I mean so the like, the whole the whole the the fear, guilt, self deprecation conversation that's going on right now, I had almost the exact same conversation with the gal I'm doing bible study with this morning. And I and I and I, like, I passed it off, like, I'm not self deprecating. I I am the definition of the cool sunglasses emoji. Emma can attest, I sent her that exact text this morning. And and and the Lord brought it up again. I'm like, dang it. Maybe I have. Hey hey, Grace. The identity that you tell people that they have because of how much god loves them completely means you too. Just a heads up. Yeah. It it completely means you as well. You are forgiven.

You are loved. You are such a wonderful creature and a a a loved daughter of the lord, and what you call upon for your friends when you're trying to help them is the exact same person that you are. And so those moments of self deprecation, remember that god doesn't depreciate your value. He builds you up and tells you that you are great and his daughter. And he created you to sleep like that, but you still gotta make your bed. Yeah. But you still gotta make your You know what I found very freeing about this conversation? Like like, you Love you. When you keep screwing up and not reading your bible, this is doesn't mean that you don't love Jesus. It means you got no discipline, friend. This is not a crisis of faith. It's a crisis of you have no discipline. Yeah. But you'll wash your hands. God didn't go anywhere. Jesus ain't mad. Yeah. You're just irresponsible and lazy. That's didn't move. He's standing right there going, seriously, I'm still right here. Still here.

I guess I'll make another punishment. Do you not want this cloak and this ring? Get over here. Hey. That sounds like some some self deprecation talk over there. What's that? You're you're irresponsible and lazy. I got yelled I got yelled for saying that exact saying this morning. Why my bible still He's not saying he's stupid. He's saying he's undisciplined to get the freaking picture boots on. But the thing is is, like, like, I've been guilty of this in the past. I'm, man, I just don't feel like I'm walking with the lord and, like, I just we just feel so far apart. Let me run 30 miles backward. Like a like a big crisis of faith, you know. But the truth is, I just got no discipline. I got no discipline. And so, like, do I do I want to spend time with Jesus? Yes. Do I love the lord? Yes. Will I tell people how great he is? Yes. Did I read my bible today? I don't know. I couldn't seem to square it in. Right? It's it's a discipline problem, and it's a skill, not a talent. And so, like because I'd be just as guilty of this if, like, when I don't read my bible, like, me and Boova are on a bible reading accountability group. Boova's nailing. Mike is not. And so, like, I'm I'm I'm nailing it three days out of the week and going, man, I just I don't know. I just wanna be on fire for the lord. I don't know why I'm chasing after everything else. I just got my priorities all screwed up. I need to put God as the focus. And the truth is, he still is. Just got no discipline. Yep. Hey. What's that one meme, the Scooby Doo one, like, man, I wonder who's ruining my relationship with the Lord? Told the mask off Fred and it's him. Is Fred pulls off the mask and it's another Fred. Yeah. That's my favorite meme. Who's responsible for all my problems? What? It's me. Man, I feel like you've you've, like, you've always been pretty good at at discipline.

Like, is it a thing it like, is it really a skill? Like, you started learning it a long time ago? I know you have failures at this, but, like, in general, when you say you're gonna do something, you tend to stick with it. I I mean, I'm I'm, like, a hugely undisciplined person. But but if it's big, I do. I do. I do. Like fasting. You've you're always very consistent Agree. Yes. With your fasting as an example. I think I think it's it's the making bed thing. Yeah. It's like, because I need to do it.

Right. And that's enough for you. And that's enough. It's like, okay. It's it's it's biblical. It's it's important. I I was thinking when you when you were you were talking there, you you were saying what explaining spiritually what we were just talking about with the with the bed thing and the room thing. I wanna be on fire for Jesus. I want my room attire clean. Oh, crap. I didn't write read my my bible today. Oh, I didn't make my bed. You know? It's it's it's all the same. It's all it's all the same. Yes. And so it's it's the little things that add up to to a vibrant faith. And and I guess I've just I've done a lot of little things, but I'm I'm fairly inconsistent like anybody else. You you know?

But because I'm committed to the these disciplines and I teach them I'm teaching them now because I wanted to be reminded, to be honest. Yeah. And evidently, everybody else did too. Or not everybody. You know what I'm saying? Very attractive. So you just that's the whole thing. You just gotta keep doing it. I was raised much like you, I always say I was raised by wolves, and I really was. I mean, dad worked nights, mom was gone during the week. So I literally was on my own, you know, and my and my older brothers. And so, yeah, I had zero discipline

growing up. So, you you know, I'm just a couple years older than you are, and I still Right. Struggle with discipline. Yep. And and so yeah. But you and so but you gotta make yourself. You just decide. And and we can can. You can. We can attest, like, as a group through experience where you have been disciplined that, like, it felt like freedom. Oh, it's nice. The best. Yeah. It's the absolute best. You know what? You you know, a lot of my fast have to do with my children. I I I fasted per semester of school, blah blah blah. My my my youngest just graduated from dental school Friday, and it and it was I it was it's almost emotional thinking of all the prayer that went into that. Yeah. I mean, she did the work. She did the stuff and and everything. But it's like now I'm like, crap. I don't what's gonna keep me going?

Dude, what a wide open world to say. Like, you've spent your time focused fasting and prayer for the for your two kids. Decades now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, grandkids are coming. Were involved. But, like That was, like, the focus. You know what? What's what's interesting on that thought process of, like, what's what the discipline is actually, like, shown up for you is, like, there's a there's a faith that god is gonna move when you are disciplined. 100. A faith that, like, god will reveal to you who he is when you, in discipline, constantly find yourself in his word. Mhmm. God will show you the blessings that he wants to shower upon you when you are in discipline, fasting, and and praying, and and following those things because it's a trust in he is who he says he is. Yeah. And we don't have to worry about, like, there is benefits to this because God doesn't fail. God does God will show up in every one of these things because if you, in disciplined fast, he will answer prayers, and you will be reminded of who he is. You'll be closer to him. There is freedom in constantly finding yourself in his word, praying to him, relating to him, walking with him literally day to day to day. And and it's it's part of the disciplines is knowing he's he's actually serious. Yes. You know, you know, too. I mean, just today, I don't even know why. I have no idea why I was reading this. I was reading where where, like, Moses, you know, guess what? You don't get to do the promised land. Mhmm. Yes. And

why? Well, just because you were a dork that one day. Right. I mean, it's like, crap. How many times have I been a dork that one day? You know? I mean You've been kept out of India promised land then. Right. I mean You have yet to enter the promised land Honestly, that that has made me wonder what what has has not happened in my life because I was not disloved. Yeah. To to really follow. Why wouldn't we be constantly praying if we believed wholeheartedly in faith that God would absolutely move when we pray? So, yeah, we I was talking about that this morning with with Mike and another fellow that, like, it's it's not approaching bible reading and prayer isn't people who don't want to do it and don't wanna be faithful to god. But, like, if you also, in addition to an obedience thing,

thought this matters Yeah. This makes a significant difference. Changes. And so, like, it changes what we're praying about. So, like, it's not because we don't want to, but, like, I you know, like, I you you do things at home because you think it's gonna make a difference. It's important to you, and you you see that it matters. And so, like, one of the things we're gonna focus some prayer on is, like, god, can you where I'm not seeing it, can you reinvigorate me? Show me that this matters. Because I think it will. Because to your point, he is, but, like, it's it's a one thing to, like, force yourself to do something out of obedience. I think I'm supposed to mow the lawn, so I do. And the second thing to go, look at that. It looks way better. Yeah. Yeah. It may and not because we're saying But what happens when I mow? Yeah. Exactly. And it's not it's not posturing to God, say, hey. Prove it to me. Right. But it's going, I know this is true. Right. But, like, whatever in my bones is not is not treating it that way. And can you address that part? Yeah. Because because then it changes everything. Yeah. You're listening to life from the path. Hey. Thanks for hanging out with us. I know that was a extended conversation about phone use and room cleaning and

trusting in the lord. I feel like we got down to the nuts of it, though. Right? Like, that's the truth. Like, we need it's it's it's living with intentionality and discipline. And, like, the main thing to remember before you're too hard on yourself is it's a skill and not a talent. You're gonna have to learn how to do it. You weren't born nailing this thing. You were born in a cracked, broken humanity and to rebel against authority and things that are that are good for you. And so, like, you're gonna have to learn it, and it's gonna look rough in the beginning, and it's gonna look rough in the middle, and maybe it'll smooth a little bit towards the end, but you're still gonna be, man, this is rough. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's it's you're gonna have to put work into it. Okay. And and once again, like, the adage holds true. It's like like, when you're looking at work versus talent, there's a lot of talented people out there, but they better not be outworking you because you can control that. You can't control how much talent you've been given, but you can control how much work you can put into it. And so discipline can do that. And and and working at those things as I'm already thinking in my head how I can get away with not reading my bible early tomorrow morning This is terrible. But,

like, that that's where it's all at and, like, it's guaranteed freedom. Like, this is not a question. This is this is what freedom looks like. And, like, I've been through it enough in my life to know that on the when I was I call them mountaintop moments, they were born out of discipline. Otherwise, I never saw them. Mhmm. Right? Like, god god is always inviting you up to a mountain, you know? But, like, when you're not when you're not disciplined to to look for it or to or to to spend time with him, you'll miss him all over the time. The man only offers mountains. God's like, I have mountains. Holy Spirit loves on mountains. I got cattle on a thousand hills. I do everything tall and big and awesome. I want you to see it. Someone the other day who who who they were they wanna start this ministry, and they're gonna it's all this as, know, woo hoo, rah rah, you know, and we're gonna have music and fog and all this stuff, and then we're gonna really pump people up. And I and I really disappointed them. I think, you know what really gets them going on a mountaintop? It's disciplines. Right. And they're like, That

doesn't sound cool. Know? And it never really responded to me. That's the thing. But that's the thing. The mountaintop without the disciplines doesn't hold. Yeah. Right? The discipline holds, and it's like what sustains a life of peace and joy that God is offering for, like, a a long time. The mountaintop moments, you get up there, and then you just fall. It's how you here's the thing. It's how you got there. No one teleports to the top of a mountain. You took one step at a time, and you made your way up the mountain, and you recognized what you were looking at, and you knew what you were walking towards. It's how you got up there. It's how you're gonna get back down. And, like, it's just a wrong thought to sit, like, that you just transport your way up there and then take the ski lift back down. And you might have slipped a couple times, but you kept walking. Yeah. Alright. Dear, live from the past. Was that you falling down the mountain? My grandson is six and very sensitive, maybe too sensitive. He's also lovable This generation. Super scientific minded, good hearted, and generous with his little sister. Six. Yeah. Six. Okay. However, he still uses a diaper at night and

has cyclical vomiting syndrome. What? It's heartbreaking. For that reason, he's on a special gluten free, no flour, no chocolate diet. The other day at school, he's in kindergarten, they had a presentation with a magician about the danger of drugs and alcohol. Just to let you know. He's six. His parents are very much into teaching their kids morals and values, and they only let him watch cartoons like Paw Patrol and similar programs. No movies Oh. And no TV in general. Life on the Path, isn't this too early to introduce a subject of drugs and alcohol to children in school? Anyway, it's not the question. Okay. I'm just saying. Okay. So That's a sidebar. You took a turn? I mean, just, like, stating outright, like, I wouldn't have any idea where to find a drug if not for those presentations.

Like, seriously. I wouldn't know I wouldn't know the different types of drugs if they didn't come in and say, this is a joint. Alright. So what's what's the legit question? There's more. Oh. Oh. My grandson asks, what are drugs and what is alcohol? Long story short, he was super scared and started to cry in class. The school called his parents and he came home devastated. We reassured him that in our homes, there are no drugs, and alcohol is in a special cabinet only for adults who use it in moderation and only occasionally because it can hurt your body and mind. Finally, he fell asleep still crying and took a short nap. He woke up still worried about the presentation, but mom and dad explained there was nothing to worry about, and that he was living in a safe house and nobody would hurt him, mom or dad, and no one in his family would be hurt by drugs or alcohol.

What is your opinion on this matter of super sensitivity? I love him so much. That's your question? Is your super sensitive six year old? Is it possible this woman herself is on some medication? Absolutely.

100% possible. Anybody who writes into Dear Life in the past has gotta be on Yeah. I still got Quaaludes left over. Yeah. A metered amount. I recently got some fentanyl from down in Mexico. I really think my six year old's gonna get ahold of it. What does his cyclical vomiting have and and night diaper have to do with anything? Nothing. Intrinsic. About He's got a sensitive way about him. He's got a sensitive stomach. He's setting the scene. He's soft. Are you trying to say that he's emotionally, physically, mentally soft? That's what she's saying. Okay. Okay.

It's inherited. So it I mean, it seems possible. Is she trying maybe she just won't come right out and say that, like, I think the raisin is sissy. Yeah. Like, it doesn't doesn't that feel like the implication? Like, look at me. He's gluten free. And can't hear about drugs and can't eat chocolate. Right. Like but Six. But but, like, whether it's a pro there's two questions, I think. One is, like, okay. What is the appropriateness of this at that age? But two, why is your kid freaking out about it? Like, to the extent that he is. What did they say? I was gonna say if they if he's worried about not being in a safe home, I wonder if there was a bunch of exposition given in this drug magician conversation that's like, these are the fearful things you should be worried about at home that could happen to a broken home, and here's where drug comes in. Isn't that the point of the drug and alcohol presentation guy to scare you straight? It never works. At six? Like, I don't Maybe you misguided it. I don't know. Maybe I mean, random, like, unnecessary number. 20% or less people are actually scared straight through that situation. I'm like most of time scared.

He probably is I got free pencils. Yeah. Right. Yes. So so yeah. So so, like, hey. I think my I think my daughter and and husband are coddling this kid to an extent that he's freaked out unnecessarily about things that he shouldn't be freaked out about. And, frankly, he may not actually be have a gluten free problem and may not need the diaper, but these parents are stinking it up. I mean That seems to be their implication. Yeah. Like And I'm saying that's probably right, bro. Do you know, like do you know what six year olds think about? But you know what six year olds are scared of? The Bermuda Triangle. I was terrified of the Bermuda Triangle and Quicksand. Quicksand. Yeah. I'm say Six year olds are scared by by cartoons do make the Bermuda Triangle and Quicksand seem like a much more That's what I was scared of at six. 31 telling me these are real world problems? Thirty one years in, I have yet to run into Quicksand. I have lost a shoe in mud, though.

Just was devastating. Yeah. I was horrified for weeks. I thought I was gonna eat it. I didn't even wanna reach down and grab it in case it got my arm. Is my foot still there? Right. This suction down has expanded to other shapes. It's not only kept to a triangle. I thought that they did, like, the dare guy in, like, sixth grade. Like, six years that, like, fourth grade. If I tried to tell Arwin about the dangers of drugs and alcohol, don't you think she'd be like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, unfazed. So but the point is the kid is sensitive.

So, like, what what what are we supposed what what are do they want? What does she want? I would say that in the various boys my age, I know it, a little sensitivity wouldn't go amiss. So,

like, I don't know. Leave him alone. Give him a few years. I'm so proud of you for making that statement. Some sensitivity would be appreciated. I mean, what are you gonna make this kid do? Hey. Go out in the garage and chop wood and think think about drug tail don't scare you no more. There's a there's a certain level of, like, if you're trying to keep your child from every possible scary situation in the world as a parent and are trying to shield them from everything, this kind of stuff may happen because they start to, like, get worried because of what you're worried about. Like, if you're putting a bunch of worry on your child because you tell them bunch of scary stories and they can't go outside because they could get kidnapped or they shouldn't go to school because of blah blah blah. They shouldn't be watching that because of blah blah blah. Like, there's a certain level of, like, you can educate your children while allowing them to still be, like, experience things but not be influenced by them because they've got a safe space at home. They're a family who lives in fear. Yeah. It sounds like at the bed. He's going to be at sick. And also are not willing to let the kid,

like, rise up to expectations. Like, a six year old being in diapers still, like, that kid probably very well could have been out of those, but, like, mom and dad don't believe in them to be able to do so. And they don't it's you can allow your child to to to be safe and grow. Like, you don't have to cuddle them from the I mean, here's the deal. The to the fifteenth night in a row, you're washing those sheets. I mean, I understand how you get to some of these areas, but, like, there is a grit there's a grit to it. Yes. And and, like, I'll I'll on Emma's point, like, kids go through phases, man. Sometimes like, we've had multiple times where the kids just weeping at night for, like, three weeks, and you're like, what the heck is even going on around here? And you know what happened in week four? They just stopped.

And and, like, you don't make a super big deal about it. You go everything's just fine. You can right? And, like, you you raised the child. Right? And so if if the worst is the happening, k, that these are fearful people and the fear is going on to the kid, you're setting that kid up for failure. And you would know that because you're grown adults and you're afraid all the time. And your kid's probably gonna do this. And and here's reasonably, I get it that we don't use this word anymore, but, like, just for cleanness of talking about it. Like, every once in a while, you should go you should look at your sensitive kid and go, am I raising a sissy? Like, am I put am I doing something that is causing them to take the world in in in too soft of a way? And maybe you're not, and that's fine. But, like like, whatever extreme thing that you think you might screw up as a parent, I mean, once every six months, it should just run through your mind. I'm like, am I is it possible that I'm hosing this kid up in this way? Yes or no? No? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean We're get canceled because Ben said sissy. I mean, this What do we say? I don't know. This whole situation makes me think of, like, I don't know, some some Internet meme I saw was like, somebody, hey. Has anyone ever told you you're beautiful? No, sir. Papa forbade mirrors in the house lest we fall victim to vanity. Like, this is this is what it makes me think of, like like, you served to this kid so much. Like, I'm like, he's like, he's not gonna know what grass feels like. He'll know what it looks like because he saw it on a picture book, but you didn't let him go outside because there's bugs in the grass. Now, Grace, I am gonna I do have to ask because what you represented of your use of the of the electronics Yep. Was just less primarily writing, but you have a very deep meme catalog. Yeah.

It's mostly writing memes. Memes. I see. Yeah. Social life, zero.

Okay. I'm just saying, you know, maybe maybe take a look and see whether you're unexposed to these items as often as you believe you're For your sake, I hope there's an ACT section that is, like, drawing literary conclusions based off of memes that you've seen. They'll have that in ten years, guaranteed. There's a mister Darcy saying, hey. Who's who who's guilty of screwing up the whole deal like the Scooby Doo thing, and it's another mister Darcy.

Oh, Grace wouldn't understand that reference. She won't read Pride and Prejudice. I don't wanna hear this ever. Okay. Stop this. Alright. So It's a landmine. My fault. The And what's secular gonna say? Yeah. Are we done talking about the sissy? Oh, sorry. Think that the sensitivity part you should leave for now. Like, my brother's kinda sensitive. He won't watch Tangled because Mother Gothel is scary. Well, that's true. But then It's a bad movie, sis. It's a bad movie. We can't watch that movie. It's too bad. But so, like, he is he is a sensitive dude at this point, but he also, in some areas, is not. So I feel like if you get rid of the coddling

True. Like, when he goes, hey, uncle Mike. I'm a scratch my butt for a little bit. You wanna watch? Yeah. I guess. He's gonna I mean, that's the sensitivity in your house concerns me. You say your brother does this, but I can recount multiple times where your little sister has come up and attempted to pickpocket me. That's not a sensitivity problem. That's a some different We can't we can't watch that. That's a bad movie. And then all one comes up behind me, steals my phone out of my pocket of bolts. To to answer the sissy thing, is snowflakes the thing now? I feel like people call people snowflakes. Yeah. I think you have to be a certain age. Maybe that's what you transitioned to. This terminology? Let's let's answer at least one question here. Did. Six too young for the drugs and alcohol magician. Yes.

I agree. Why is it a magician? Yeah. Yeah. The only thing it's doing is trying to figure out drug using parents. And all the evidence disappeared. They're just trying to get Toby to raise his hand and go, my mama smokes that. What's that? That's his I reckon was. That's meal. Yeah. Hey, Bozo. I've seen a joint before. Is that South Peach pomade?

That's what my grandpa You got that OG kush, Bozo? Now my my wife who works in a middle school often has parents come in with a strong stench of the marijuana. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Strong stench of the marijuana. And the kids yeah. A punchy yak. Sorry. You're often driving a vibe. Okay. Okay. That's that's woke. There are many super sensitive adults who begin life as super sensitive children. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but children must learn to exist and to navigate the increasingly complicated world in which they live. Your grandson's parents should have his pediatrician recommend a licensed child psychologist

who can help the boy and his parents address the challenges ahead. I'm a I'm a big proponent for therapy, but this one's just ridiculous. Doctor doctor Morrison, I believe my boy is a sissy. I got a snowflake in my house. Would you have anything for this? My kid recognizes what fentanyl is. What do I do? Yeah. And he ratted me out to that health teacher. They scared me to drugs. Heroin last week. I saw it. She's riding the white pony. It's oh, okay. So if it's not the doc if it maybe don't go to the doctor. But I I mean, here's the deal. You don't have to farm it out. I'm just asking as the parents, ask yourself, are we putting fear into this kid? Is it healthy?

And do we need to change something about us and something about him? I think it's they just ask yourself the question and, like, I don't think you always have to farm it out. Just do some self reflection. Yes. I want my child to be safe. Great. I want my child to never experience anything because they need to be coddled entirely. Not great. Right. And as a matter of fact, the last thing I want is to go, hey. Yeah. Me and your mother are scared to death. You should talk to the doctor. Anytime you're afraid of anything in life, do not trust us. We'll be in the closet. Talk to a therapist. Do we know for certain this was written by a lady? Yeah. The grandma. The grandma. Yeah. Because otherwise, I was gonna say this feels like a very grandpa thing to think. They're like, boy, this My boy's gonna be a sissy.

I'm guessing I ain't gonna stand for no sissy, man. We gotta go fishing. I knew I should've named him Hacksaw. If little Billy's gonna carry on my name, he better not be a sissy. You were born in Appalachia. We eat possum. Get back here. Otherwise, the possum eats us. You're gonna eat your squirrel bits. I'm a take that boy out to the woods. We're gonna kill something.

Now here's your first gun. We're gonna go hunt some deer. You're gonna be a sissy under my watch. I made a headstone. This grandfather is now my favorite part to play. This is fantastic. Get on your raccoon hat. Okay. We're gonna do real one more real quick. Oh, boy. Dear life from the path, I live in an area with a large number of dog owners who frequent the same walking trails I do. Yep. On several occasions, I've encountered dogs that are off leash and running ahead of their owners. Sometimes the owner isn't even in sight. On several occasions, dogs have jumped up on me, almost knocking me to the ground. I'm in my late sixties. Oh, she's in her late sixties, though. Under five feet and weigh a hundred and five pounds. Moses. I could easily be injured. I was once attacked and bitten.

My Grace, these are other people's problems. Told torn up. You gotta back away from the microphone. I'm sorry. My question is this. What's the best thing to say to these dog owners when they finally appear? The last time it happened, the owner happily said to her dog, I know you're excited, but the rest, I couldn't hear because she had already passed me on the trail. Life from the past, she saw her dog jump up on me and never even acknowledged me. I don't wanna respond angrily or sarcastically, but in a friendly yet firm manner. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, sometimes, like, one of my kids is is bees naughty to some of the other kids, and I don't wanna deal with it. And so I just let it go. You know? And I feel like it's very similar to this. Was that your advice? Yeah. Oh, okay. You're sympathizing with the with the dog over understand not wanting to talk to my dog. Yeah. You're like, I know that kid's doing the wrong thing, but I just

don't I wanna get involved in that right now. Here's the deal. Like, there's some levels of, like, I would probably call this, like, oh, don't be that big of a deal. Like, it's a dog. Whatever. But if you're, like, a 68 year old grandmother that weighs a hundred and five pounds and is three eleven, you could seriously get hurt by a dog. Absolutely. Call the cops. Yeah. Like, I hate that answer, but it's Call the police. I'm serious. Like, if it's a situation where it's constantly happening, there's a bunch of people on this trail, it's known to happen all the time, just tell them, hey. Or You gotta realize, like, you have to keep your dog leashed or call the cops. It could hurt me. Okay. Yeah. I or walk a different trail. I mean, you mean, I have to leave my trail? Gotta leave the trail because of 30 dog owners? Hold on a minute. If you are such a way fish individual Way fish? Hold on. That normal normal things that happen in life are a threat to you, it is possible that you may have to change your behavior as opposed to flipping the world around. I'll take that if it's you happen to call the cops. But if it's a seven year old grandmother, I think she should be able to walk the trails and not have to change her ways because of these crazy dogs that have already attacked her. Okay. I'm not buying attack. She said she literally got knocked down. Did she not? She said she got attacked and bitten one time. She got attacked and bitten one time. I feel like we don't usually take words at face value. And here's the thing, you guys, when if I've listened to past episodes,

are notoriously gentle on the ladies. I think this lady is ridiculous. She was not attacked by a dog. Okay? Hi. Relax. I'm a six foot three, four hundred and fifteen pound man that could defend myself, and I was bit by a dog three times this week. In a on a walking trail? The same dog? In a house that I was in. Wait. So Well, that's a little different. No. No. No. This dog will attack everyone around and nothing gets done.

So I understand where you're coming from that sometimes we can be a little bit lax on the ladies in the situation, but I'm not in any way that that description, and I get attacked by dogs. Okay. And I don't wanna get attacked by the dogs. I think I think Ben's advice is hard to take in, but it's probably right. Like, the thing is is, like, let's say you call the police and get rid of the one, and then you call the police to get rid of the second. Uh-huh. And, like, it's just you're you're never gonna get all of them. So the question is is, like, is it unfair that she's being attacked by the dogs or, like, they're jumping on her? Yes. That is unfair. Yeah. Is that a problem that you're going to solve? Probably not. You should probably find somewhere you go walk the mall. The practical answer is you should find somewhere else to go. I mean, if you're a big dog owner in a in, like like, you're a young person with a dog in a retirement home and everyone's complaining. Who's gonna leave? Probably you. You have the dog and you're surrounded by a bunch of old people. Like and if you're the old person to the dog situation,

you should probably go defect to the retirement home. So now what we're saying is because this woman is able to be attacked by a dog and possibly hurt, she has to be the one to leave a situation. And it's fine for all these people that know No. No. They are dog owners. They know They're throwing that last part in there. They should have leashes on their dogs. You throw that last part in there. Which last part? No one's saying that it's fine. But the practical answer is is, like, you're not gonna solve it. We just know yeah. We just know it's gonna happen. I don't I don't know if this problem solved by leashes. Like, dogs jump up on you unless it's, a three foot leash,

usually, there's enough distance that they can jump on you whether they they really want to. They can jump up on you even on a leash. Yeah. It's not right. But, like, I it's just not the practical answer is it's not a problem you're gonna solve. It's like that jerk on the bus. Like, when the kids come home and, like, Tommy called me a butt face again. I'm like, look. Stop talking to Tommy. I don't know what to tell you. Right? Like, I can't fix Tommy. I'm not Tommy's dad. He has to ride the bus. And so, like, the best you can do is move to the front of the bus and not sit by Tommy. That's the answer. Right? There's no like, oh, well, I could call the cops on Tommy. I go talk to Tommy's dad. Maybe Tommy's dad whoops him for a day. He behaves for a week, and then Tommy is a big jerky. Get on the bus. Right? Like, there's there's there's some problems that you just cannot fix. Yeah. If you want so extract related to so think about think about during during the COVID stuff. There's people who are highly susceptible to catching something, and it was a significant detriment to them. To ten thousand people where that wasn't the case.

To those should does the person who's highly susceptible say, I don't care. The rest of the 10,000 people bow to bend to me, or do you just shop from six to 7AM? Like, there's a practicality to it. Could you could the 10,000 people change? Sure. They could. But, like, if if you're the anomaly because most people could handle a jumping dog, frankly and I jumping dog's not even, like, the singular problem. A kid rolling by in a trike, a toddler trying to jump up or run at you. Like, there's all kinds of various things that could happen while you're out and about. Keep your toddler's on a leash. It's I I'm just I'm just saying, like, there has there's a point where you're responsible for your own protection.

And if there are so many things that you cannot control happening, if you're really worried about your health and safety, then you should walk somewhere else. If you're just irritated that people aren't taking care of the dog That's right. And you have the tolerance for the fight, then keep walking and fighting about it. I think that's fine too because, like, 'm agreeing that it's wrong. But, like, if you're really worried about your health, you can either try to move the 10,000 people or you can walk a different trail. Secular says, you are far too nice, lady. Start carrying pepper spray or bear spray when you walk on the trail.

Shit. Bear spray the dog. Yeah. Boova justice. I love it. Oh, don't even. Don't even. I shut my mouth in the last two minutes. I will not take that. Take your toddlers while you're at it. Take some of that bear spray right to your gullet. You take that shishy boy. You take your bear spray.

You take care of them dogs. You take your pet possum, and you get off the trail. That dog gets any near me, I'm a eat it. Okay. Continues. If an off leash dog starts to jump on you, use it. When the owner shows up, use it again. Sorry? The owner? No. It doesn't say that. Okay. Sometimes second, it really goes off the deep end. Yeah. So I would not be surprised. It was like, yeah. Get That would have been great. Get the fire hydrant of bear repellent

and hit the owner with it too. Matter of fact, I can tell you how to make napalm if you need it. I oversold that. Styrofoam. If it when the owner shows up, say their dog charged you and take their picture. Okay? We're still on the same area. If they give you any trouble, file a police report. When you were bitten, you should have involved the authorities and your attorney. Yeah. I don't yeah. I'm not yeah. Just to just to be clear, like, if someone's not watching their dog and they're biting people, then you should, like Rebored them. Call them in. Totally. But, like, here's the thing. It's I do think we're she gave she said it happens all the time. She gave a one and then the other example. Like, there were actually only two that she's like, I think it's probably not happening as often, but she's frustrated because it's happened more than once. And I get that too. But, like, I I think you just gotta keep it in proportion, and she's gotta decide what she wants to fight. But, like, again, health problem, she needs to handle it on her own. You've been listening live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. We really do appreciate it. If you needed to cut this episode into three parts and listen to it, that's totally fine with us. I don't care how you how you spread out the pie as long as you eat the whole thing. You watch the whole thing if you're not a sissy.

Bear spray. Yeah. Can we get some live from the path branded bear spray? I'd buy it. Yeah. You know, the other items that are in the life from the path store at life from the path that order not flying off the shelves, but I feel like this bear spray bear spray might be the deal. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go set up at Grayslake or wherever the dogs are at and say, like, I don't know how to solve this problem. Any unruly unleashed dogs, live for the path bear spray. We start selling bear spray. We're gonna end up on beliefnet. Beliefnet.com. Beliefnet.com.

Roe rogue Christian podcast starts selling themed bear spray for dogs. Thanks for hanging out. We really appreciate it. If you got any comments for us on the show, you can email us at [email protected] or contact the Life From The Path. Bob Eisner complaint line, (515) 517-0085. Call or text, we'd love to hear from you. We do plan on actually, I don't think we'll be around next week. We'll see how the how the days shake out. But in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle to the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Past.