Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the path. And you're listening to live from the Path. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston and Proper. It's

good to be with you here on this balmy insert day of the week evening. I hope you're you never know when someone's gonna listen to it. But balmy implies that they're listening to it in the summer. No. We just don't keep the air cool in here. We'd to give the place a message. We just keep it at a crisp, like, 85. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, here's where we go on to the show. Hey. Lots of fun stuff on the show tonight. First of all, we have a a a legit user submission on live from the path. Dear life from the path. What was the somebody remind me of the question.

I have multiple friends who have been burned by the church in the past. How do I go about approaching them to to, like, come back to church? What's that relationship look like? Mending that, how do I talk to them about church when they've been burned at a church before? Okay. Okay. Good. That's a great question. Yeah. Alright. Awesome. And then, Bubba, you had an ask the pastor? I do. I was reading through the end of Isaiah in my reading this week, and I I kind of strolled scrolled past Isaiah 58 where there's this this language of, God is is speaking through Isaiah about,

Israel's fasting K. And and what they're doing and, what they think he would want and what he might actually want, and they seem to be contentious. And, the the way that it's proposed of, like, what the fast is Yep. And, like, how they're utilizing it is very different than anything I understood before. And so, yeah, my ears perked up as I heard it, and I was like, am I just am I looking at that wrong? Is there, like, a prophetical thing here that I'm not getting? Is there a cultural piece that I may not be understanding because I don't know the specifics of when Isaiah was talking to Israel within the words of 58 and stuff like that? So just wanted to ask about what you guys' thoughts were regarding the the seemingly different kind of fast that the lord is calling for. Okay. Alright. Awesome. We'll pick that up. I I do have a question, and maybe we could just start with this. I feel

is there a I feel like I don't care for people who name a ministry after themselves. Am I being Name a ministry after themselves. So, like, if if you're a person who creates a it's like the Ben Foust ministries. Yeah. Ted Johnson ministries.

And I think to myself, like, what? Like, I don't like it. A a lot a lot of guys do that because if they end up in a different church, they wanna be able to keep the copyright to their own stuff. So so they tell me. Oh, man. But I'm like, I don't I don't care. I don't. Yeah. You know? Especially if it's a contentious separation, it's like, we're gonna erase all your stuff. And it's like, well, stop being silly towards each other, but Man. It might be bigger than that, but that's

what I've heard because I I thought the same thing. I'm like, why would I want I mean, nobody care nobody cares. Yeah. Why would you care? So yeah. I I guess maybe, like, I I saw there's a I I saw recently a a cause that I thought, oh, wow. I think this is a great cause. This is a great thing. I'm glad the people of Jesus are in on this thing and doing this thing. And then I kinda looked it up and researched a little bit, and there was a dude who does it and and you could contribute. But the the contributions were to this guy's name ministries.

And it just left a bad taste in my mouth because I thought, like so the there's there's a practical consideration that, Dan, that I think you highlighted. And then I thought or, like, it's it's it's self glorifying. Right. Yeah. That's what I would think. Yeah. There's also a side though of let's say you're a really popular preacher. I'm I'm Dan Smith, and everybody wants to, you know Oh, Dan Smith. Wow. Is that a real good person? I don't know. I tried to make up a name. I don't know. Okay. I mean, obviously, they're two common names. Anyway, it's someone who everyone, like, has heard of. They went like, oh, yeah. We I love this guy, but I don't really know what church he's at, but I've heard of the name and they're like they can Google the name and find but but I was thinking you can get around that, but I think maybe I'm being generous thinking maybe they thought, well, if I name it after me, they'll find it quicker. That is more generous than what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's the Crowder Foundation. Yeah. I don't anyway, I may maybe it's not maybe there's there are legitimate reasons of which it's okay. I just it just my first gut was, like, I don't know why you would wanna put your name on it unless there was something

that was self glorifying. And and like I said, I'm I'm open to practical reasons like, hey. When you like, it's your ministries, I guess. And then when you talk to people and you ask them to contribute, they they trust it because it's you. I don't know. I just don't like it. I don't like it. And maybe it doesn't matter. But if you're a person who has a ministry and you wanna formalize it as some sort of, like, your name ministries, just know that I don't like it. I think you should stop it. Yeah. You know, on the on the the coattails of that statement, I wanna let you guys know about my new ministry. It's the Troy Engeldinger ministry. And Who's that? Some guy. Some some dude you don't need to know. No. Absolutely not. Mhmm. Okay. I don't know. Mike, is that do you look did you hate that? Is that about you? It doesn't hit you either way. I hate it. Okay.

Yeah. I just hate it. Yeah. Of it makes any sense. It like it feels like I must increase. You didn't write any of the things you're saying. I mean, maybe, like, when I was, I don't know, a hundred years ago on the radio was a guy who was it J Vernon McGee or something? I think he's still out there. And maybe you're, like, as an old guy, I wanna hear one of those sermons. Well, he died, like, eighty years ago. I don't know how long he died. So you you you type in his name, you'd probably find something. But you would anyway. Yes. You would find our show is called Life From The Path. If you search Ben Foost or Dan Hudson, like, you're gonna come up with Life From The Path. We're, like, famous. Definitely. Like, internet famous. And so yeah. It just seems like whatever barriers are there, I do I I'm okay with. It all sounds like the wrong posture. Yeah. Right? You're like, I I I gave this one awesome sermon one time. You did what now? Like, you sourced all the content from Jesus, hopefully. Second of all, you bathed it in prayer, hopefully. And third of all, like, it's it wasn't by, like, any movement or any greatness that had come out of it. If you're if you're posturing yourself in the right way, you're not gonna attribute it to your own genius of the story of Jesus. You didn't write it. You didn't do any of the actions that that produced the greatness. You know what I'm saying? And so to, like, to save it in perpetuity and go, remember how this one time I retold the story of this awesome thing God did, and it was so cool. I just wanna make sure that the money gets headed in the right direction.

Yeah. That sounds bold. Paul only ever put his name on stuff because it was literal letter. Yeah. Can you imagine John writing down revelation and going like, that's John Baptizer Ministries or that's that's John Patmos John Ministries. John of Patmos Ministries. Yeah. If this gets accolades in the future, look, which I'm sure it would, like, I just wanna make sure the money goes to my family. You know what saying? Like, it just seems weird. Right. All of Tarsus LLC. And and think of that, like so even ever none of the New Testament books were titled. Like, we gave them Right. Titles. Bill was It was the dude's name who wrote the letter. Yeah. Yeah. And, like Or the account. As a normal letter would be. And, you know, we don't Matthew doesn't write his name on his own gospel account. Like It's our way of organizing. We we we know that. We get it from church history. We recognize it by the things that he's saying, but, like, none of that is going, here's my account. The only person that does that is Luke, and that's because he's it it matters to the thing that he's trying to accomplish with both Luke and Acts. But, like, yeah, I just I I I don't know. I I was trying to I was praying through it because, again, I I think it's a righteous ministry. This dude might be awesome, might totally love Jesus and the work that his ministry does, but, like, it was enough that I was, like, significantly turned off by it. Yeah. And I I didn't yeah. Just tried to figure out if I if I overreact. I mean, we're in a different like, we're in a modern context. Right? We talked about this a couple weeks ago about, like, people's local congregations are not their only congregations and talked about focusing on, like, people that you can't really connect with and whether it should even be something that we are focused on at all. You know? But, like, once that realm carries over, then it does do you become like a band or do you become like any other service industry where you're like, look, the money's gonna exist either way. So either you can you can make sure it gets funneled in a direction that gets used appropriately.

Like, no matter what you do, your content is worth $3,000,000. So you can you can either set it up to make sure that you're getting at least a million and 0.5 of that. Or if you just take your paltry $50, we're just gonna spread that 3,000,000 out to other people. Yeah. You know, to, like, your agent or your lawyer or your whoever, your your creative media director. So so, I mean, it could be it could be one of those things if we're trying to look at it generously. But overall, it just seems really bold. Yeah. Like, I even for like, Christian bands run into this too, but, like, people who preach the preach the gospel. Right? It's the good news according to Matthew.

Like, the the heading is the good news, like, the thing that Jesus did. And so, like, you you're not presenting it in a way that, like, if you're adding to it, you've screwed it up. If you've taken away from it, you screwed it up. If you if you give it to people the way that God presented it, like, with a worldly example so they can understand it better, then you did your job. Like but anything more than that feels weird. Yeah. I agree. You know what? You know what I was thinking about a couple weeks ago? And, Dan, I wonder if this is I wonder if this is true in your the stuff that you've been doing over the last few years from an industry perspective is that, like, I I loathe the thought of asking people for money and trying to raise money and stuff. Mhmm. But but if

you find the right thing, then it feel like it just it it completely flipped. Like and so so and and I'm not even sure that this is an actual something that I'm doing yet or whatever. But, like, my my wife and daughter had gone on a on a mission trip to Dominican Republic. And one of the things that they got to talk about my wife was a did birth work. There was a birth doula and stuff and, like, women's, like, sex education is woefully inadequate. Like, these these ladies do not know they don't understand their bodies, how they work real well, and, like, things that you would kind of expect actually from, like, some some, you know, third third world countries where you feel like, well, actually, they probably because they do so much with so little that maybe they know this, but, like Yeah. I think combination of industrialization has brought in

some some not the persistence of some like legacy wisdom here. And so so sex education and stuff is specifically for ladies but I mean, I think for fellows too, this is this is kind of a very patriarchal like society with a bunch of real lazy dudes. Yeah. But then secondly, I thought like like one of one of the things that would be great is if you had some kind of like midwives, like local midwives who like were in the area that could go serve these ladies and give them options and provide training. And like, again, I just seemed to roll on as a fella, but, like, I I I'm very excited for this. This felt, like, awesome. Like, it met a very clear need. It introduced people to ways of thinking about themselves properly.

I feel like it's a it's a natural path to recognizing, goodness about God in that area. And like, I thought to myself when I was after my wife and I were kind of discussing things and like I came up that midwife things then came to me. I thought, you know what? I would have no problem going and talking to people and saying this is this is important. Yeah. And you've got money to give and it would go to a great thing. Like, I wouldn't think twice about it. And so I thought about you, Dan, is that, like, I think in a similar boat, but, like, for the stuff that you're doing, like did that did it feel like a switch? Like it felt like I have no problem going in and doing this type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we do things like here at at the local church that I I'm like, We need money for like carpet or whatever, you know, and I'm like, I guess we do. We're gonna do some parking lot renovations and at some point we're gonna need some money, we actually need some kitchen counter stuff

but I'm just not excited about it but I go to the orphanage in Zimbabwe and it's like these kids literally have no home and so last week I was in San Diego at a church saying, Hey, we need money and

it's like, I wouldn't do that for the Dan Hudson ministries or stuff like that, yeah, it is different. I have all these contacts all over the country now raising money for a new truck because their twenty year, 30 year old vehicle broke down and stuff like that, and it's like, okay, that's an actual tool there that they needed. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a different ballgame when you're actually doing something more on a bigger kingdom

level than like we're helping our little ministry here. And Yeah. Maybe and I I don't maybe I don't cautious about overcooking that as an indicator, but it does feel to me like when the barrier thing that was a barrier to you before suddenly becomes something where you're like, nope. No problem here. I I do it 50 times over. I travel like, to the campuses. I travel to the whatevers because this is important and I feel strongly about it. Like, it seems like a good indication that god is going, yeah. Okay. Like, this changed for a reason. Yeah. And there might be people, you know, to your to your example, who are super passionate about local ministry things and then they don't actually have a problem doing it because that's the thing that god kind of Mhmm. Allowed them to not have a hesitance about. But anyway, I just I had never done I couldn't think of like, even when we were selling advertising

for life from the path, I'm like, I I don't know what You don't wanna do this. Yeah. It's probably a mistake. Hey, Kapana's coffee. You're too right. Maybe the ministry thing is could be even more of a protection. Right? Like, because if you give it to a church, churches are sometimes controlled by, like, elder boards and people who have separate agendas. Right? And if your one agenda is to be like, hey. This is what we're gonna do. Yeah. Right? Like, it does cut out a lot of people and there's a lot of risk in that, obviously. But but some folks could be setting it up as a I don't know. I'm trying to get them the benefit of the doubt. I'm stuck on this ministry thing. Because they're not all they can't all be like these like beard twisters. You know what I'm saying? Like, they can't all be sitting at their house twisting mustaches going, here's how I can defraud God's people to fund my my gold toilet. You know? Like, that Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that that can be true. But, like, I I can see a good amount of people setting it up as, like, for really good reasons and other people setting it up to take advantage of you. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's yeah. I think that's right. And I think it's I don't know. I've stopped at the gas station on the way here. And for some reason, the thing that was playing over my mind across multiple situations was, like, it's more nuanced than that. It's more nuanced than that. Like, people are not very, like, as clear as you want them to be in their motivations.

Like, they took I I don't know how but Moob and I work in a corporate environment. Like, successful companies, successful situations, and you would be flabbergasted at how many times people make decisions because of, like, one thing that they heard. And they're like, yeah. Yeah. Let's let's We're gonna go with that. Yeah. Let's do that. That seems great. Let's buy this thing. We heard somebody at a conference. Talk about it. And, like, that's not a very good basis to do anything. But, like, you know, a guy sets up is it possible that dude goes well? Everybody around me has has done this. People who had the most impact on the world, they seem to be them as individuals and so that's what they named the ministry and like, I just I just wanna be impactful. And like, they didn't even consider that there might be some dude like me who goes, I hate that and I won't give money anymore. Self aggrandizing boob. It's right. Right. Or that that would hit someone wrong. It it obviously didn't hit them wrong. So I had a I had a guy years ago that he went to a worship conference and, like, he came back and was telling me the story about how this worship leader,

they're like, he just seemed to love his own music. Like, the show was about him. And he was really disappointed about the whole thing. And I thought, I bet that guy didn't even realize that you felt that way. He just was probably worshiping it up and just like he may play guitar solo that that seemed self indulgent. I don't know where the line is for Christianity on how much a guy can love his own guitar solo or not. But like he's like, yeah. It just felt like a show. And I'm like, well, what? I mean, that dude probably felt like he was just worshiping top top to tail and was giving it everything he's got. And, like, it was interpreted as he just loves himself and, like, he wasn't there for God's work or whatever. You know? And so, like, I always remember that story when I think that, like, I got the tail of something that I understand what's what and who a guy is and what they're doing. You know? And I'm like, I just feel like that guy went home and, like, if he had found out that you felt that way about his performance, he would be, like, devastated. He would be like, oh, man. I can't believe people took it in that way. That's horrible. You know? That that totally happened to me. Like, not in a worship contest, but, like, I thought I was doing something and trying to accomplish something in a certain way. And to find out that someone took it

took it in such a way that, like, made it feel like I was after my own ends or trying to go around or, like, something just I don't remember exactly what circumstance was. But, like, you're right. I felt terrible, and it was not my intent at all. And, like, some of that here's the thing. You never know how people are gonna take something. And the again, you may not have put 50 thoughts into it. You may have put three, and the thing that I'm offended about was thought 86. And so it didn't even occur to you. And so, anyway, there's a there's a grace in that. There's a grace in recognizing that that the fallibility is to presume

that people had the worst motivation that you can think of to make the decision that they made. Sometimes that's the case. It actually isn't very often. Most of the time, they've they've done something out of blindness or ignorance, not out of, like, evil intent. It's just been my experience, I guess. Actually, that worship thing you came up with, like like you mentioned, it was interesting. There was a, a question that someone asked, the lead singer of, Ring Collective. And they basically said, do you have any advice for a for a worship pastor? Kinda getting into to being a worship pastor. And I I thought what he said was interesting and it's it's relevant to kind of the thing you were talking about. He said, the longer I do this, the less I feel like I understand what it is I'm doing as a worship leader. What a mystery it is that we engage with the belief that god meets us inside the vocal expression of our longings. What a bizarre thing to believe that any human is really leading that,

which should bring us to a place of astonishment and humility rather than grasping for attention. I actually don't have any problem with the idea of performing and enjoying the spotlight. I just think it doesn't belong in the context of worship. Be a rock star. Go for it with god's blessing, but just don't make a spectacle of yourself a sanctuary, mister guitar solo. Yeah. He goes and I say that as someone who has made that mistake a thousand times. I've been hired to make that mistake. Worship isn't a place to fulfill musical ambitions. It's a place to relax in the presence of god and in the company of your church. Worshipers should hold on to amateur status for as long as possible. It's not a career. We've made it one somehow, but that's like setting up merch tables in the temple. It's at best a confusing compromise. If you want a career in music, play shows. That's what I do. I play shows, and I'm transparent about that. Sure. I bring my spirituality into those shows. They are worship full at times, but it's not a worship service. You can tell because you bought a ticket. Worship is free and inclusive.

On a practical level, here's some tips that make a Sunday morning go more smoothly and allow you to be maximally helpful in your role. One, learn the words. Singing to a monitor isn't leading. It's karaoke. You need to be free to look around, which leads to my next point, keep your eyes open. Your job and eventually your skill is one of reading the room, impossible with your eyes closed. This isn't your time of worship. It's your time to facilitate others. Stay tuned into your role as facilitator. The waiter doesn't sit down and feast at the restaurant. It's about curating someone else's experience. Concisely explain why the song you're singing might matter to the congregation. Give them an entry point. Think of saying something that fits over four bars of music. That'll stop it into turning into a boring mini sermon. Righteous. Project confidence. A mic stand is way too skinny to hide behind.

Have a game plan. Script anything that might need to be scripted. Spontaneity is not spirituality. More often, it's just laziness. Respect the stage you're on. If you have a script, you may want to deviate from time to time, but it's not the same as just going where the spirit leads you, which is just Christianese for being unprepared. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but they are trustworthy guidelines. The last thing I'll say is this. Your value isn't tied up in this. God loves you at a 100% capacity off the platform. He doesn't love you for your abilities or for your usefulness or for your holiness. He just loves you. So relax and enjoy it. It's fun to play music. Good. That's solid. Yeah. It was solid. It was great. I thought it great advice. So, like, does that not apply completely to Steve whatever ministries? Like, if you wanna be a motivational speaker, you should be that. You know what I'm saying? But, like, if you're gonna go out there and and and roll it under the guise of, like, money is necessary in this exchange for me, you know, to continue to do this, then I think you're you're probably you're in the heading the wrong direction. Yeah. And I think that that this is one of the cautions I had with the with the guy I came across is that, like, I the cause that he was leading

sounded great, but the only way you could give money was to this dude's ministries. And I thought, well, like, I actually don't know what that's going to. Like, does that mean could it be anything like your flight expense to go do a conference in Indiana? Which act I mean, here's the thing. It may be fine. That may actually be fine. Like, with skills who motivate crowds and draw people into good things, like, they have to you gotta pay for the ticket. It's okay. But, like, it was nebulous enough and focused on this guy's name. I just

it was weird. That that's why I've been thinking about it because I don't wanna I'm trying to make sure I'm not, like, overreacting and, of course, I'm like, I I wanna meet the man. I wanna talk to him. I thought about having him on the show, actually. Maybe he won't come on anymore. But, like, I I just like, it's it's too shallow to go, oh, he's got his name in the ministry. I don't wanna be a part of this. That's way too shallow. But, like, I just it felt like it was interesting to think about how it might turn people off because it it it did to me. It did to me. Okay. You're listening to Live From The Path. Hey. What turns you off about Buva? (515) 517-0085. You can call or text. If it's sometimes the way that he draws faces on his hand and talks it like a hand puppet, if that turns you off, you should mention that.

Any other thing that he says or does that you feel like would humble him appropriately, and you should (515) 517-0085. And I expect some some interactions here. Yeah. Like, there should be a long list. This is how you know people aren't listening to the program. Right. If they take one look at me or listen to anything I've said over the last thirteen years, absolutely, there should be things. Yes. Agreed. I'll know. Agreed. Alright. Let's do let's hold the advice. Let's do the ask the pastor. Okay. Sounds good.

So Isaiah 58 is 14 verses. Do you want me just to read the small section or you wanna read the whole chapter? Yeah. Better take the whole chapter. Alright. Isaiah 58. Cry aloud. Do not hold back. Lift up your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their transgression, to the house of Jacob their sins.

Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they are a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment judgment of their God. They ask of me righteous judgments. They delight to draw near to god. Why have we fasted, and you see it not? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you take no knowledge of it? Behold, in the day of your fast, you seek your own pleasure and oppress all your workers. Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight and to hit with a wicked fist. Fasting like yours this day will not make your voice to be heard on high. Is such the is this is such the fast that I choose a day for a person to humble himself?

Is it to bow down his head like a reed and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast and a day acceptable to the lord? Is not is this excuse me. Is not this the fast that I choose? To loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless,

poor into your house? When you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh. Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily Your righteousness shall go before you. The glory of the Lord shall be your rearguard. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer. You shall cry, and he will say, here I am. If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness,

if you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. And the Lord will guide you continually and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and make your bones strong, And you shall be like a watered garden, like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. And your ancient ruins shall be rebuilt. You shall raise up the foundations of many generations.

You shall be called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of streets to dwell in. If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable, if you honor it, not going your own ways or seeking your own pleasure or taking idly, then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth. I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father for the mouth of the Lord has spoken. I love that. Yeah. It's refresh I every time where the where you hear god say, this is what I want. Right. Like, what a what a gift, man. What a real, like, refreshment

to listen to that. Okay. Yeah. And so as I was as I was reading through this and and I think I stopped it. So I first read it, and then I listened to it later on in the day because sometimes when I'm driving around, I like to listen to the stuff that I might have read earlier in the day just to kinda hear it as well, I guess. I I played that a couple of times because I was like, okay. It doesn't feel like a condemnation of the actions, of the concept of the fast, right, of fasting, which had happened up to this point in the old testament. I think that there's still a place for that. It wasn't like abolishing the concept of of humbling yourself before god and all those things. I I recognize that there was more to it from the perspective of these are words

to a a rebellious Israel, right, like of of the heart of how they're doing things and their reaction to God when he may not do things that they're expecting, but it just it it it I didn't know how to reconcile with that fully from the perspective of, like, does that mean that, like, is fasting

also the the feeding the homeless and the and the stuff like that? Like, it I just I didn't know how to to take in both things. That's probably the best way put it. You want to start, Dan? Sure. Sure. I I first of all, I would I would caution you to not make this just a different list. Oh. Right. I'm fascinated by gonna I'm feed the homeless and load the Because as we do that, know, Oh, now I know I'm fasting this way. Although that's not a bad list, but I think that's his whole point,

is going from the fake, you know, what am I trying to say, mailing it in, doing the stuff and it all looks right but my heart's wrong. You mentioned heart, that was a key I word don't really, I mean, I kind of believe what I'm doing but whatever, I'm still cheating people, living

like a pagan and trying to look like, know, I got my Jesus t shirt on and he's like, yeah, go ahead and actually be a God person, like live how I want you to live as part of your sacrifice and fast, like I'm fasting, okay, great, I'm holding things back for myself but I'm also engaged in the life that God has called his people to be engaged in because we can do the same thing, like I've

people check off their list of I prayed this and I've done that, I gave my tithe and I've done whatever, I'm wearing the church name t shirt and I'm out and I'm feeding a homeless person but cheat on my taxes and beat my wife and whatever, all the stuff. There's no specific person in mind when I say that, I'm just trying to make up generic

list. Cheat on your taxes, beat your wife. You know who I'm talking to. But I'm just saying, he's like, no, be just just be, in our context, really follow Jesus. I

don't I don't care how times you're fasting. If you're not even following me, you haven't repented, you haven't given your life to me, quit faking it. Quit faking it. Yeah. That's what I And it was interesting to hear, though, like, that there's expectations that Israel has of god after they've done these fasts. Like, lord, we did these fasts, and you're not speaking to us. You owe us. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Like We did our part. We did our part. What yes. Exactly. We did our part where you kind of thing. Yeah. And I know that I I know that Jesus Jesus deals with fasting too and, like, the concept of making it a very outward expression and, oh, how holy am I in the streets kinda stuff. I didn't know if that was that was going on also here as well because I know, obviously, there's many years between when Isaiah's prophecies are and when Jesus is around. Right? But, like, is this is is it the same kind of thing that How many times have you heard a non Christian say, well, I prayed. Now I'm mad at god because he didn't answer. It's like, well, you're not even a Christian.

Right. I mean I mean, like Right. Yeah. I get what you're saying. Nothing in your life that says, I'm a Jesus person. Why are you expecting him? Like, well, how about you get yourself right first Yeah. And then we'll go back to the prayer. Well, yeah. And in context here, like, so Isaiah, like, I mean, 30 through, like, 45 is god, one, breaking down the fact that Israel keeps running to Egypt and running to other powers for the for their strength because they can't beat whatever battles are going on around them. Same with there's oh gosh. There's this beautiful depiction,

and I say beautiful because it just gets me fired up, like, almost end of Job style fired up, where god just it literally and it really is it's such a shaming of, like, who do you think you are Yeah. That you create idols from your own hands, and then you bow to them and worship, and you expect them to have power when I stand behind you and actually am power and I actually am the one who holds the snow, like, much Job and Job stuff, like, I hold the snow.

I know where I drew the lines where the ocean stops, yet you have the hubris to make something from wood and then call it your god. And it's like after those, then we've got this Israel that I I don't know if it's because it's timing wise or however Isaiah was was was laid out to be chapter one to chapter 66, but, like, then you've got now where the Israel is is crying out to god saying, where are you at in our affliction? And where are you at, as our god, the god that gave us all these promises through, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? And now we sit here being, like, tossed aside on all ends, and we fasted still, and you're still not here kinda thing. And it just it was just just holding all of that was interesting. I I yeah. So I think I think a key a key consideration is, like, this is not the only place of which something like that comes up. Right. Right? So, like, this is very much smells like Hosea when it says, I desire mercy, not sacrifice. So, like Mhmm. And and Jesus references the same thing when the they we misunderstand the Sabbath, the Pharisees misunderstand the Sabbath. Yep.

And and even think of of Peter talking about your your prayers being blocked because of how you're interacting with your with your spouse. Right. Yeah. So it's a common it's a common scriptural theme then that like, God has given us these I don't want not regular they're pictures of what it is to interact with him. Yeah. Right? The motion of sacrificing, the motion of praying, these are ways of which god has given to us to interact with him. But he goes I think his you're not buying audience with him by being righteous.

Right. But he is not willing to to, like, to basically allow you to think that you're gonna boss him around and then misrepresent him to the world. Because that's this and it actually interesting. If every prophet every prophet in the Old Testament goes after Israel and how they treat the poor. Every one of them. Interesting. Like and and it's interesting because, like, Christians are totally involved in, like, poor ministries, like homeless ministries, indigent ministries type of things. But there's modern posturing around how we think about,

poverty and people's own place in it. But I'll tell you this. Israel got beat up by god every time and it was always contextually, among other things Right. Had to do with how they treated the poor. Because I think fundamentally, what he's getting at is that, like, you are not like, if you are a a picture of me to the world, you are the kingdom of priests to represent me to the rest of the world, I am being misrepresented. What they see you doing is going through these I don't even wanna say elaborate situations

or whatever. What am thinking? I'm looking You're putting on the Edgar suit from Men in Black. Yeah. Yes. Which now but here's the thing. Is is is sacrifice good? Well, yes. Yeah. God asked for that. Is fasting good? Yes. Right. Like, these are the right type of, I don't know, ceremonies. I I can't find the word that I want. They're the right types of things. But, like, if you do that, like, you're buying god's favor. He's saying, look, your role like, you're you're focusing on on god to you. Yep. God goes, you're here for everyone else around you and so how you treat other people matters

That makes sense. On your interaction with god. And so, like, it's it's the it's the thing that it's the thing that hits me, and I think this is a Western Christian thing more so than I think it's everywhere else. But, like, some of the posturing that people have of, hey. I'm a good pious Christian. They're measuring. I pray every day. I read my bible every day, and god is going, did you look around you today? Right. Did you ignore the people who are less fortunate than you? The all the things that are going on, did you mistreat your family? Did you believe did you walk in arrogance when it came to how righteous and holy you believe yourself to be? And, like, we separate those things. We're like, well, I got the thing right that I'm supposed to get with god. I I'm working on the people thing and they're sinful anyway. But, like, it is very clear that god looks out and he goes, I'm not listening to you because you're not listening to me and you're not listening to the people around you. So that was the fundamental promise. Right? Like, I will be your god. You will be my people. Yes. And, like, you will be my people means a lot of things. Yeah. Yes. And it doesn't it doesn't mean that you have to be perfect in it. God is still accepting the sac like, the sacrifice is a representation of your imperfection. Yeah. But he's not gonna take on your arrogance. He's not gonna take on you spitting in his face, upholding none of the things that he's asked while you parade around and go, I am a person of Yahweh.

Give me the give me the the the stuff that is due for the person of Yahweh, both to the people around you and to Yahweh. Like, I am a person of yours. I I expect this much. And God goes, hold on. The promise is I will be your God and you will be my people. And you're not even close you're not even trying. Right. You're not even trying and failing. Like, you're and then to make it worse, you're posturing as if you are. You're rolling around as if you're nailing this thing, and you're trying to fool me with it. Yeah. It's it's interesting because you get this sense for, like they're doing these motions, and they're saying, god, okay. We did this. Where where are you? He's looking back down and going, where are you? Like I have no people here. Right? Like, do guys do? Made to carry my name. Yes. And, like, this is like, we get we start to back away from this type of thing because we get worried that it feels like works based righteousness. But, like, I want you to separate to a certain I don't really like how I'm gonna say this, but, like, we get so salvation focused that we forget what it looks like to live in the in the work that god has provided for us. And what he's saying is is that, like, if part of the way that the world understands me is they see me in the things that you are doing, less your fallibilities,

and, like, your advertisement to the world is that I suck. Yeah. And we're salvation focused because we're me focused. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, we're worried about about me and my end up. And so, like, god has has given a path to cover your screw ups. Right? And you continue to go, well, what about this screw up? Right? So then once again, you're just back focused on yourself. And second of all and then you try to hold God to account as if he is the one that's mistaken as he sees past the fact that you're like, you're not even trying to take the path to repentance that he offered you. You just wanna roll around and be like, I am a child of Yahweh. Give me the things I am due, oh lord. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not even an like, it's not largely there are, like, tangible tasks here, but, like, it's it's how you're positioning.

Are you looking at the rest of the world in humility and going, whatever I may have, may I use it to god's effect in the world? Or, like, we primarily saying, like, god, I I I want you to rescue me. Now in fairness to them, some of the things that they're posturing in Isaiah, like, they they are asking him from as a community thing, as a nation thing, will you step in? Yeah. We're in a real pinch here. But but he's I think he was basically saying is, like, I I gave you I gave you a way to live that's that's righteous, and you're picking and choosing. Like, you're choosing the stuff that serves you, and you're ignoring the people around you. And so hardheartedness

towards humanity, like, not looking at people with hope, not looking at people with mercy and gracious. I don't care what the circumstances is. I I think it runs a risk of blocking the things that you believe are faithful interactions. He says it does. Yes. He says as much. Yeah. What

did Jesus say as he was preaching all around the region, the kingdom? What was his invitation all the time? Over and over again, follow me, me, follow me. Right? Mean, well, I think we have a whole segment of the church who thinks follow me means to say, believe in him while we're sitting back eating grapes and really not engaging in anything. And follow me, that's

a big thing. That's like It's an active Trust me, obey me, believe me, literally follow me, you know, you do, you live kingdom, and and that's what he's saying. I want you engaged in the kingdom. I don't I don't want you just saying, yeah, I did that prayer. I did that fast. Now you owe me. That but but, you know, it's it's not a dollars and cents, you know, exchange. Right. I fast, you give. It's like, no. I am not. I'm be we're still in the deficit. To you. If it was a dollar and cents exchange, we'd still be in the hole. Right? There's nothing you're gonna offer that's gonna get us up to square. For two days. Come on. Yeah. Right. Aren't we set right yet? I realize that you've salvation to the whole world, but still, I feel like I offered up this fast. And then I told everybody I did the fast. And then I I and then I did all the things that you'd asked me to, but, like, you didn't. Like, it I think it it's a the reason I I it keeps leaning back on an arrogance thing for me because, like, you're literally trying to fool the creator god into something that's not true. Like, you could easily fool boobs around you that says, hey. I am I am the people of Yahweh. These are the things I'm doing. Look at my actions. And God goes, I don't know you.

I don't even know you. I thought of that. That's when we have this conversation, I thought of the same thing where where in that interaction with Jesus say, you know, they're gonna say, lord, lord, and you say, I did not know you. Posturing of a relationship that wasn't there, and it wasn't because they weren't going around doing the things that a public might go, oh, well, that person must be religious. Look at him say, lord, lord. Look at him saying tassels. Look at him. He's got the tassel. This is what I'm saying. And so, like, yeah, that and that's that's devastating. That picture in scripture is devastating and but it's I think it's the same picture is the, hey. I fasted. I I put the sackcloth on. I I did all the prayers and I honored like, they're honoring of the Sabbath, like, that was doing it for their own benefit. Right? And it's like, oh, like, the outside the outside world would tell you that that you are religious

but they wouldn't say that god is good based upon your religiousness. And so that's focused on you again. And so, again, your life is a story about god to other people even in your fallibilities because it's a story about god's goodness and his rescue for your fallibilities. But, like, what most people would take away from seeing this type of behavior is, like, oh, well, they're super Christian. Okay. Great. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good man right there. Yeah. Yes. Not yeah. So Not that's a good god. Yes. And I I I this should be this should be convicting in a way that recognizes,

like, where we again, we just have such a hard time and I think we again, even here, I wanna have some some grace for it because I think it's difficult. It's difficult. Like, we're finding oh, man. I finally got my own holy stuff down. I'm praying like I'm supposed to. I'm reading the scriptures. And by the time you got all that done, you didn't see another face. You were focused on your own personal stuff and because you're just trying to keep your own ship in order and, like, god is is constantly he's just he's got the bigger angle than this and he's like, you have to love people the way I do and you have to see them the way I do and you have to be gracious to them like I am. And you need my help to do it. Yeah. You can't pull this off on your own. Right? We're we're concentrating on the scorecard and god's saying, can we just go out and golf? Yes. You know, let's do it. Let's get hit the links, man. Covered your salvation already. Right.

Haven't you heard the cross is enough? You know, it's we joke about that, but that's so flipping true, man. Like, any big repentant moment in my life, that is exactly the exchange. Mhmm. It has been this whole time where I'm, like, leading up to this point where I'm, like, alright. Fine. I'm giving up this thing that I've been holding onto for forever, and, like, I know that there's freedom on the other side of this, and it's and it's yours. Like, you are the only one who can do this. I'm not strong enough. I can't do it, and, like, I get, like, sick to my stomach thinking about, like, I can't I can't let this go. Like, this is something I'm holding on to for so long. And the second I do, the lord didn't make me, like, put my nose in the in the muck. He was just like, alright.

Good. I'm glad you're past that. Now open your freaking eyes Yeah. And see what I've been hold like, see what you've been missing this entire time as you've been stuck in in the stuff that you've been running from me from when I've been sitting here with my handheld out to you this entire time going, look, son, like, this is what I have for you. Come in and buy it in me and no real freedom in real life. Yeah. Right. Yes. Because all the promises he made were actually true. Like and he did make them. Right. Right? Like, he makes all kinds of promises in the old testament. All kinds of promises to all the Israelite, like and they are grandiose and they are all encompassing. And he's like, I will do this and I will do this and I will do this. Everything that they're asking for, he did promise them. Yep. But, like, it's all based on the one promise which is I will be your god and you will be my people. Right. And, like, we don't show up to the meeting. We're like, god owes me all these promises because it don't come out of his mouth. And, like, it's contingent upon the one. It does work that way. Right? He says, I will be the god in this relationship. You will be the people, and I got all of the god angles covered. I just need you to show up. Yeah. It's funny. And it's he's so good that, like, in every one of those promises, if there is a downside to not doing it, he takes that on. Like like, he's the one who goes, alright. Well, I'll be the one to take this curse because I know you're not good enough to do it without me. Alright.

Alright. What an awesome what an awesome Yeah. I just it was really it was really cool to read through that, and it was I think it was exactly what I needed to hear. Like, it was weird how my scripture reading has has has literally, like, perfectly lined up with some stuff that I needed to hear over the last couple weeks because I started reading, like, every day reading my bible for the first time in my life, maybe six months ago now. Mike, you probably remember close to that. Sounds right. And, like, I think I've missed a day, and I don't say that for my own glory. Like, it's not that hard to read five chapters a day. So, like, stop. Just you do it. Yeah. But, like, it's so weird that I just arbitrarily chose what or what I thought was arbitrary, chose one scripture to start with, and I just started from there and haven't stopped since. And it's, like, lined up so perfectly with, like, a Psalm I need to hear that I didn't know I needed to hear. I've read Psalm 22

every day for, like, three weeks straight when I originally started reading a Psalm a day thinking I was gonna move my way through the 150, and then the lord was like, no. No. No. No. We're gonna camp out here for a bit. We're gonna spend some time in '22, and and, like, I heard that every I just switched on to '23 as I moved into Jeremiah, but, like, it's been it's been really cool to kind of, like, wake up and when I'm ready to read, asking god, like, if this is what I'm supposed to read today, let something hit me. Yeah. And if it's not, let me move on. But, like, I'm

earnestly reading my bible in a way that I feel like it is me trying to get to know my father for the I first got some friends doing the same thing right now, and they'll come every week like, we're just reading like Ezekiel, you know, like, I've never read this stuff, And then that never just their eyes are big. You know? And Yeah. Which is I love it. I mean, I've I've been hit in the freaking face with Job the end of Job a couple times in my life, but, like, that was the real, like, punch in the face I needed. The rest of the stuff, I've been like, okay. That's kinda cool. But this last time I've gone through it, I'm constantly like, dude, that's so cool. And, like, we're we're reading or we're learning Matthew at church, and I'm like, getting a chance to go through Old Testament is the same time as I'm going through and reading Matthew and hearing from that as well. It's just like, dude, this is this all like, there's a lot to this. Like, the lord did this really well. Mhmm. He really set out a really good set of, like, 66 books. He did awesome. So, yeah, it's just been it's been really cool. Alright. You're listening live from the path. That was ask the Hey. Maybe you've got a question, that you would like us to tackle. You can hit us up on the old Bob Eisenleauard live from the Path complaint line. It's (515) 517-0085. That's, questions for the pastor and Boovah's known fallibilities or,

just guesses. You think I'm pretty sure he probably has the following shortcomings. That would be okay as well. I don't use toenail clippers. I How do you how do you get after it? I like with my hands.

Oh. You rip off your toenails? I do. Oh. My wife hates it. Yes. So do I. Yeah. Agreed. Okay. Well, that'll get you started on the things that you can tell that are my shortcomings. That's one of them. Like Boy. Can't look at you without thinking about it, to be honest. I'm gonna look at Dan. Probably a good idea, actually. I'm gonna dream about that tonight. I'm sorry about that. I don't know. I just I don't know if I started it one day and never went back. I just rarely use toe nail. After. Growl. Don't ask don't don't answer that. You don't have to answer that. I don't wanna I don't need it. I'm gonna imagine it appropriately. Do not need to fill out the picture.

Okay. Alright. (515) 517-0085. Okay. Let's let's do some advice, but let's start with the submitted question to to Life in the Path. I got it. K. Random question, but I've recently started listening to your podcast. It's hilarious, and I really like Buva. He's great. Like, awesome. Nope. No. Sorry. That'll sound fine. It's hilarious, and I really like the advice part. K. However, I have a request for the advice part. I have multiple friends who have had bad experiences in church and are no longer church goers.

How do I go about getting them back in the church? People have been hurt by the church. Yeah. They no longer show up. Do we have to say to somebody but wants to bring them back in? Yeah. So I I guess the first thing I would say is I would I would maybe shift your goal a little bit. I it it they it will happen. It will eventually

happen. But like people tend to blame infrastructure when they weren't really they tend to be relationship issues but they but you tend to blame the infrastructure. And so

remove the infrastructure as as part of the equation. Like, how do you start getting them to reengage in their relationship with Jesus to see the value in community? I think you can do that personally to the extent that they're your friends. Like, start, you know and maybe you're doing this anyway. You're having people over for dinner and whatever. And then, like, invite them to say, hey, I'm I'm working through a study or I'm gonna was gonna read through Ezekiel. Any chance you wanna join me? You wanna meet for coffee? You wanna come over and have dinner with our family on Thursday night? Like, it it's okay for your your front door to be the front door to God's community and that's how we want you to think about church. The goal isn't to get them into the building. The goal is to help heal from things that they are generally like landed in

different areas which may or may not have been accurate. It's not likely the whole church offended them to be honest and it may be that they God let them down and they just can't bring themselves to say it or that a particular set of relationships or leadership in the church got they got burned. They got burned in them serving or whatever it is. And so let's take just take some of that stuff out of the equation because, like, when you're feeling

when your your relationship with god is feeling right and you're starting to trust Christians around you again, then you're better equipped to deal with the fallibilities of humans acting as a church just holistically and some of the complications that come from that. And so I think that would be the place to start is don't feel like there's a need to make sure their body is in a specific place on a Sunday morning. They will get there and they should get there. I think it's valuable to be part of a local church community and necessary.

But, like, I I don't feel like you're on a clock for them. So I would say let the let your front door be the church's front door to best you can and then take it from there. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You're not you're not trying to connect them to a congregation. I mean, ultimately, you wanna connect them with Jesus and that's what saves, that's where salvation comes from. It could be, yeah, one of a couple things. It could be like we just talked about the scripture you just read,

maybe they were not engaged in a legitimate relationship with Jesus in the first place, they were attending a church and they were like, I'm fasting, where's your part, God? And so there was a disappointment in God because he's like, Well, I'd like you to engage in me, abide

in me, as Jesus said, like we said earlier. Secondly, it's not shocking to have a disappointment with people. Yeah, totally. I you read through,

was gonna say the New Testament. Read through the entire Bible and it's one after another disappointment with people. Over and over again. Yeah, yeah, because we're people and we all know that. Mean, not shocking. I've disappointed many people through my life and they've disappointed me and that's just called life. So somewhere in there you've got to learn to have some grace with that, it is when people disappoint me, okay, you feel it, whatever, but then let it go. I mean, can't sit there and live in it, you know? Let them worry about that between them and God and you make sure you are right with God and I think that's part of it, it's just building them in that relationship. Think everything I echo what Ben said in that but

I don't know if I can prove on that. Just don't be so shocked. Don't let that be the thing that keeps you away from god as people made me mad. They disappointed me. Therefore, they're all hypocrites. I'll never come back. It's like, you can't control that. Yeah. And and I don't think you have to I I I think to to to one of Dan's points is that, like, I mean, they they could have legitimately aggrieved you. They could have been offensive and harsh and terrible. Like but but because we do that kind of stuff. Totally. Totally. Yeah. But there there is not, like, a prescribed, like, timeline of which you should be offended. There's not a particular set of, like, well, here's the 10 things that have to happen for reconciliation to occur. Like, that's all stuff we made up that we felt like this would be how things would set right but like your relationship with God is set right by a very aggressive act of grace and the faster

you can embrace the fact that you want to live in that way in reaction to other people, again, back to the discussion we just had, like that starts to communicate Jesus out. And so like it's not harming the person who harmed you to to hold on to this longer. It's just mostly harming you and that's true for any relationship stuff. And so, yeah, I I would agree with Dan, like, the the more you start to see your relationship with Jesus correctly, you tend to be more gracious, more forgiving and start to see some of those situations with the church in a a better light. You expect humanness out of humans. Yeah. Yeah. Because you see and and frankly, then there's a humility to that because then you start to see yourself in it and say, boy, I like, I probably wouldn't have chose that particularly sinful way to go after somebody but, like, I'm prone to others. Yeah. And so, like, humility causes you to look at people differently and frankly, that goes as we think about god calling his interaction with people around him. Like, we're so often

become I I I don't like the word judgmental because it implies that the only way to interact with people properly is to have no sense of judgment. That's not right at all. Mhmm. But, like, it's how you think about the rendering of that situation. So, like, can I look and go, dude, that guy totally put himself in this situation by abusing drugs and alcohol? That can be totally true. But how do what do I think about that? I said, well, I think that's rough. And, like, that that must have been a tough spot of which he started it. It must have been a tougher spot to decline it. And, boy, I don't know even know how I would handle a world without hope like that without Jesus. And so you look at that person with hope and a level of sympathy and an opportunity that they might yet see the blessing of being in relationship with God as opposed to you put yourself there, I hope you deserve it. Right. I hope you you know I'm saying? Like, it we don't have to change the true thing. You change how you react to the true thing because, like, the most nastiest true thing about you, Jesus goes,

yep. I saw that. And, I'd be willing to die for that and reconcile you back to me. And so, like anyway, that that's what gets back to the thing is, like, we don't have to smudge over and act like people aren't nasty and that the church doesn't have its fallibilities. But, like, again, closer you walk with Jesus, the closer you get reminded that, like, people are people and and it's good and bad, then you start to actually be able to move on from those situations in a way that's valuable to you and then ultimately beneficial to the kingdom. Okay. I think that's right. I feel like if if you're gonna take out something like this,

I would just be real cautious on making sure you're not allowing it to be like a airing of grievances every week. You what know I'm saying? Like, you're gonna do a bible study, like, I think you should do one and and focus on god and let that relationship do what it's gonna do. Yeah. And, like, instead of like, if you it's only a caution because if you walk in there knowing what their hang ups are ahead of time, then you're gonna end up focusing on them. And it's just the wrong focus point. That's all. Right? It's and it's just a caution that makes sure that, like, let's let's get our internal relationships and our relationships with with Yahweh heading a direction.

And then, like, if we wanna mull over, you know, past grievances, they'll come up on their own. But, like, if if you let it be a a crap on church fest, it'll stay there. It will never get past it. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Alright. Secular says or would say you should divorce your friends and go to therapy. Call the police. Call the police. You know, actually, this is, I think, keying off something that Mike said is that also

don't you be cautious to don't take on this as, like, your personal mark of success if whether they reengage with the the church or not. Mhmm. Like, these are god's things to to move. People do get the option to respond to how they want to. Like, again, I think you you do your very best. You recognize that, again, if your if your front door is the front door to people engaging with god's community, make sure it's open. Intentionally make sure it's open. Actively engage it. Actively invite people through it. That's for everybody, not just the question asker. But but be cautious that, like, you don't wanna follow a roller coaster of of,

oh, okay. I feel better about the church. Like, oh, I'm falling away from it. Like, that that can tear you up. And so look at people with hope. When you when you look at people with hope and even as they go up and down, you go, well, I it's it's a real roller coaster you're on but I'm still hopeful and I think God can still do great things in you, then it doesn't throw your world off. It's just it's real disorienting to follow people around on their ups and downs especially when God's stuff is tied up with people's stuff. It becomes hard to sort out and so just stay encouraged

even if this doesn't go like smooth sailing. It's bigger than it's not your burden to carry. Hand it over to Jesus and let him carry it. Alright. Ready? Okay. Ready. Dear life from the path, I have lived in my apartment for nine years. When I moved in, I met a woman who moved in about the same time. We became friendly, and I enjoyed talking to her at the pool in the mailbox until I got to know her better. She

has alienated all the other neighbors and kids in the complex with her attitude. She butts into conversations and asks personal questions despite claiming to, quote, mind her business and keep to herself. Life from the Path, I was raised to be forgiving and understanding. I have reached out to her and taken her to the store and medical appointments, but then she freaks out, swears, and demands that I speed up, take her to thrift stores, etcetera. She asks why I don't take the freeway instead of surface streets with traffic lights. I finally quit taking her places, but now she has started walking to my apartment, sitting down, and asking me questions. She also gets mad when she sees I went to the store without her. How do I politely but firmly tell her to leave me alone, and I no longer want to have anything to do with her? She makes me anxious and drives me crazy. I understand she's lonely, but she's a miserable person to be around. Signed doormat. I mean, it sounds like you already know what to say. See, you've got it all planned out. You just gotta pull the trigger. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to say it out loud, but You should've asked not how do I politely but firmly tell her to leave me alone. Rip that Band Aid off. When do I tell her to politely

and firmly leave me alone? Yeah. Okay. So so this is interesting because I think someone could say, well, aren't those things contentious? The things that you just said earlier, have hope for people and have your boat front door open. And now Someone could say that, Ben. Look at this. Look at From the complaint line. Look at this difficult person. And so how do we reconcile those two pieces of advice?

You first of all, you gotta this is difficult. This is skill, not a talent. You gotta figure out how to be all those things gracious and full of hope without being tied to everyday interactions as if they are moving the needle significant ways. Right? So, like, you can be open to taking her to the store, and she can be mad about you not taking her to the store, and that has to somehow be okay with you.

You can set I mean, like, once it become in a way that you need to set up a boundary and, like, I just feel like you just need to be clear. Yeah. Just very clear. Like I'll be available on Thursday. That's right. We I you know, I can take you to the store and to the medical appointment. We're gonna just for a heads up, we're gonna roll the the freeway, and, we're gonna probably get there in a route you're not okay with. But, like, when we go out, I'm gonna expect a certain level of behavior. I'll get you there on time. Yeah. And if that's not gonna work for you like, it's the same way you present it to your kids as they start to get older. Right? Like, just give them all the facts. I know that you have an issue with the way that I drive, but that's how we get places. So if that if that's gonna work for you, then I'd love to take you. If it's not, then you'll probably have to find another ride. Like, you just continually keep putting things in their court. Right? Like, the decision is yours. These are the these are all the conditions, and its condition sounds harsh, but, like, these are all the the ways in which I would love to be able to help you. These are the things that are gonna stop that from working. Yeah. Now let me know if that works for you or not. And there you were polite and you were firm and, like, either they'll back out on their own because they're like, you don't tell me what to do. You don't tell me how to act. They'll leave on their own if they can't meet those conditions. Or they'll screw them up and say, look, we had a hard time meeting the conditions today. I feel like we're gonna take a couple weeks off and maybe we'll try her again. Yeah. I think that goes I think we've given this same type of advice multiple times, but I the the key here is that, like, one, figure out how to be unoffendable. Like Right. You just don't have to take personally what outrageous

people think. And then then two, just pull some of the emotion out of it. Like, you don't have to carry a torch for a right reconciliation of all all the stuff. Somebody said something offensive to me. Well, since you can control whether you're gonna be offended, hey. Well, that was an offensive thing you said. I'm not offended, but it was offensive what you said. Like, that's okay. And and I think Mike's right. You set clear you kinda set clear boundaries, clear terms. Don't like, when when people are out as long as you don't agree to follow outrageous people down an outrageous path, then you tend to be able to handle the situations much more objectively.

Yeah. I and I as far as the last problem where they're, like, coming into your house and, like, sitting down, asking you questions, like, this is just weird that you tolerate this anyway. Right? Like, obviously, they don't have any social affair with doing this. And so, like, have you ever not said, like, either lock your door so they can't just roll into your apartment or be like, look, you gotta knock before you come in here. Will that work for you? Because people coming into my house that don't knock is not allowed. So let me know how that works for you. Let's try a knock next time. And next time we don't knock, we're just gonna have to say, look, you can't come in here until you're like to use the knocking. Yeah. So it is

this gets back to, I think, to the thing that you one of things you alluded to up at the beginning, which is that, like, not everything applies or has to come to full bear on every situation that exists. So, again, you don't have to people can't just give you one option to help them. You you get to explore all the various options that might exist. Sometime like, you need to be open and gracious and kind and inviting, and then some people disqualify themselves. You're not the right person anymore. You you have to be like that to the rest of the world until they disqualify themselves. And I don't mean disqualify like I only help good people. I mean, sometimes

you just are not the right person that is gonna actually progress this person's life in any way or another. And so if you pray on it and then if God makes it clear like, hey, I'm not this burden isn't on you. You don't have to chase this person down. It's not your responsibility. I'll I'll pass it to someone else or they don't want it, then you're you're absolved. You don't have to keep beating down the same door all the time. There's legit holy peace to that, and you're gonna feel like there isn't, but there definitely is. Like, there's peace to saying like, the the number one issue is letting them decide terms

of of your entire relationship. Right? Like, if you don't take me to the store when I ask, you don't love me. If you don't drive the freeway instead of the traffic lights, you don't love me. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. All these things. And, like, none of those. They're patently lies. Those aren't true at all. I do love you, but, like, I'm not gonna love you in that way. That's not gonna happen. Right? So you can't anybody who tries to start dictating to you a one singular route, like, basically, do what I ask you to do or our relationship is in shambles. Your relationship's already in shambles. Yeah. And so, like, set boundaries that you can say, I would love to be in relationship with you, but this this is the way that this is gonna be able to work. And make sure you're not being a jerk about it. You know, like, you're not setting terms just to push them away, but, like, they'll push the they I'll just tell you, they're gonna push themselves away because they they're not used to not getting their way. They're not used to you not jumping right when you say, you will do it this way. Otherwise, you don't love me. And you go, well, I do love you. What what you said wasn't true, but I can only make the store on Thursdays. That's when I go. So let me know if you would like to join me. And then that's it. And be and like, it's it's a straightforward exchange of of ideas and the way things are gonna work. It's not an emotionally charged event. Okay. You want secular advice? Secular's hold on. Bubba, did you have are you trying to figure out whether you have contention?

I'm just trying to figure out what I wanna voice, and I don't think it's anything right now. How about now? Oh, sweet Moses. Oh, fine. How about now? So to to to speak on the other side of that, if we think that doing all this stuff

sounds like you might be being a doormat for this person who is a total pain in the butt and downright just ridiculous in most of their interactions, it sounds like. If you eliminate the concept of the doormat and just go, I'm unoffendable,

and my joy is in the Lord every day, and I get to be in an opportunity where a person that is flat out unlovable in a lot of situations, I just get to help them out. Whether that's being a person that listens to them gripe as they walk in my door or a person that takes them to the store, and even though they bicker and want me to be on the freeway, I still take the roads that have stoplights, but we make it, and they'll bicker, but they'll make it. Make it to their medical appointments, they get to the store, all this different stuff. You take any chance of you getting offended out of there because it's just it's just not what you care about. Like, it doesn't matter what they say. You're still there. Right?

Is the advice the same, or is it possible just to be like, I'm gonna stick in it, and I'm gonna keep doing it just to be with this person? I'm not a doormat because I I took away their possibility of stepping on me because I couldn't be stepped on. I was just there and just kept doing it. And even if it feels like I did it for ten years and I didn't see a needle move, doesn't mean it didn't. And

flat out being there for people that are unlovable, like, is an awesome thing. And, like, even those little things, they they add up to people. And even if they don't, it's not on you to be counting counting the the score. Like, you're just there. Yes.

I, one, I I don't know I don't know that the question is around whether you're a doormat or not. Do we did sorry. Did we say that? He signed it. Oh oh oh, okay. That guy signed his okay. But I I think the answer is it could be. I think it could be true either way. I don't think I think it is wrong to prescribe that the only faithful way to respond to it is to stay in a situation like that just like I think it would be wrong to prescribe that the that you should always bail from it. Agreed. Yeah. So I I think they are both viable paths. I the the key question that I think you're preying on is

is is there well, one, like, you you'll have peace one way the other. Like, you're praying for, like, which one of these things feels right. So, like, I think to your point, you should be open to the fact that, yes, you just you're in on that thing. But I I wouldn't say, like, we we shouldn't I don't know that I would even default to that. I think that's a prayer prayerful question. And, like, one of the things is is that, like, the presumption in in your the thing that you said is that, like, it is always helpful. I'm not sure that that's true. I'm not sure that that's true that it's always helpful by that you're to stick in that relationship. It also paints you as extremely one dimensional person, like, as if you have no other relationships in your life. Right? People that take up that kind of bandwidth, like, you have to take it from somewhere. So if you have it to give, then I suppose it's not that big of a deal. Right? But, like,

those situations don't change after you get married and after you have kids and after you have any other type of reasonable responsibilities. And so, like, you have to start pulling time and effort away from other good things in your life and then and saying this one gets carte blanche. And, like, basically, you end up it ends up sucking up any other good things you could have possibly have done with your days and promises that you've made other people. Mhmm. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair too. Which I think that that goes back to the path the the the path of of prayer,

which is if that's where god wants your effort, then It is. Yeah. Yeah. Then you're then you're in on it. But if if it's very possible. Like, I don't I don't know that you have to do that. If that person actually could just be a straight up distraction to you, like, they're just soaking up your time and effort. Well and there there's also a perspective of, like, you may not have to be the only person who does it. Like, if you wanna get together, a couple people go, hey, man. There's a person at my apartment complex that just sucks,

and they're, like, the neediest person I've ever met in my entire life, and they're constantly needing crap. Can we just figure out a a thing where we've got a couple people that when that person needs to go somewhere, we get them there? Like, that way, it's not all on one person. Start an apartment, carpool. Mhmm. Whatever. Yeah. Like, there may be more people that need that. I mean, I don't I'm I'm totally fair. I'm not saying you have to go straight to creating a John Buva ministry. I'm just saying, like, you could just phone a friend and be like, hey. Yeah. I have to go to the to the to the store with with Jamie, and she sucks. Will you come with me? Yeah. I I do think so I I I again, I I think this is a

like, have to pray on this type of thing because, like, it also is not true that god looks at the world and goes, there was no there was no consequence earthly consequence of the things that people do. If you let your Right. Break an ox and go tear up someone's field, then you gotta pay for it. Yeah. Right? And so god does not let go. Look, my people are ungracious because there's a there's a crabby lady in her apartment who bites people on the way to the doctor's office and, like, she needs to get there and so you go and get bit because she has to get there. Like, it's okay to say someone, look, you can't ride in here if you can bite people. Yeah. It's not wrong. It's not unfaithful. It's not unloving. That's that's not right. Like, there's a I'm I can't find the the right word I want. So I'm gonna say the probably the worst connotation would, but like coddling in situations like that is not necessarily equitable

Yeah. To love. Because the truth of the matter is, like, in its harshest terms, she could walk to the store. It gonna take her six hours. Right? But like she has created barriers along every corner that could have drove her there. Right? So like her attitude has made it so the most viable option for her is to walk there. And but she refuses. Right? Like, someone owes me a ride. Someone like, I guess what I'm saying is is, like, I think we're available for generous things, but, like, there are certain paths that people have to walk through. Like, Israel's been the same way. Like, there are some times where you have to feel the consequences of the things you've done before you you ever even consider that they might need to change. And so, like, it is a prayerful, loving thought to make sure that you're not celebrating and allowing allowing

poor behavior to continue merely because you want to air on the side of being generous, where actually the loving thing to do is to allow those consequences to bear out a little. Yeah. And I do and I think the risk and this gets more to, I think, what what Bubba was talking about is, like, we do tend to, I think, draw the line too shallow on how far our generosity should extend. That's probably right. I think I think you probably need to take where this is the same reason why Jesus has to walk the earth. Our his notion of forgiveness is, like, a million times farther than most of us would default. We're like, I don't really have to do 70 times seven. This is like seven would be too much for me. And so to see Jesus do it, wherever you think is like, boy, I cannot take it anymore. I'm guessing the line is probably beyond that. But his it also comes with his invitation to be his people and, like, an invitation to good things. Right? So, like, he doesn't say, follow me. By the way, you can rob the Samaritan while we're on our journey. He's like, you're gonna follow me and then you're gonna do good things as you follow me. Yeah. Like, your actions are gonna match your words. And so, like, the hard part is is trying to think that you're putting yourself in a way to teach people how to do life. But, like, that is exactly like what we're trying to do. We're trying to teach people about who God is and what life looks like following underneath him. And so there is the

I think we're trying to hedge against the risk of pulling our generosity because people are annoying. All people are annoying. Right? But, like, given the same tactic, like the amount of bandwidth, it sounds like this gal might be taken up. Like, just because you helped one homeless person doesn't need to mean you need go home and then feel bad for the other 1,500 that you didn't do anything for today. Right? Like, you're you're almost being like, like our generosity should be unlimited as if that's a possibility. And, like, you only have so much you're a human. Right? You only have so much bandwidth to do those things. You know what I'm saying? And that's where the prayer thing comes in and goes. Just help me to see these lines correctly.

Help me to see where I'm helping more than I'm hurting. Help me help to show me where I'm loving opposed to just the easiest thing to do is to take her and get yelled at. Or the loving thing to do would be to sit her down and go, listen. I would really enjoy these car rides if you weren't yelling at me the whole time. So let's figure out how to be in good relationship, not just a relationship. Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay. Alright. Secular says. Yep. If you know someone will walk into your apartment uninvited, for heaven's sakes, lock your door. If this neighbor rings the bell or knocks, tell her you are busy and cannot entertain her and shut the door. If she corners you and rants about you having gone to the store without her, tell her in plain English why you stopped doing it. That said, I think it would be more hurtful than helpful to point out the other reasons she has made herself a social pariah.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I buy that. Like, it just seems like you owe if you actually want to love her well, you're not losing anything by not having a reasonable conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I I I think there's a caution in, like, allowing people to be the worst version of themselves

is not this is not loving to them. Being a judgmental turd is not loving to them either. And so but, like, those aren't the only two options available. The output of your mouth might sound exactly the same. Oh, sure. They yeah. They might take it. Again, this is where I get to the the intent of your heart. Like, I'm here to help. You're cautious. You're praying through it. And, like, sometimes people just take that so poorly, and there there isn't much you can do about it except for recognize that it's like, if if they took your good intent as something terrible, like, there's all kinds of filters that that went through that made them react the way that they did. And so you need to be double gracious about it. That's when you like, when you tried to do a good thing I know this, like, the habits of a marriage. I think I nailed something. I did think for the best possible reason. I thought I did a great job, and my wife did not either notice or appreciate it. I'm, like, double offended because I actually was thoughtful this time, and I thought I was gonna get it right. And, like, but that is the place to, like, double down on not being offended. It's like, oh, man. I wanted this to go well, and it did not.

How could I have said this differently? Right? You're saying, like, if you can take the offense out of it and look at this person graciously and go, even that was met with animosity, I'm doubling down on the prayer and on the, you know, trying not to be offended in this type of thing. But I just it's there there is a there's a notion and I think this is uncomfortable. I think this is uncomfortable with the way Jesus talks about this was we're just talking about this. Like, as the way that he talks about the Sabbath, the way that he talks about all kinds of things for an old testament perspective, he looks at the laws and goes, look, the the god's direction are a combination of principle and wisdom. And you and you're you got to be cautious. Like, where you went to try to protect the principle, you completely threw wisdom out the window. You were gonna try to set me up and and call me out because I was gonna heal a guy with a withered hand when you would drag the sheep out. Like, you fought for the principle and ignored the fact that god provides wisdom as that extrapolates into the world. And so I I get it. That feels squidgy.

But, like, god did not write laws that cover every circumstance or situation or direction. Like, he said, here's the principle of the thing and then you come to me for wisdom. And Jesus is, the walking capital w wisdom out into the world. And so, like, I I the the biggest caution here probably is to say that this is the thing you have to do or this is the thing you you don't do. Like, I'm not they're not that it's not that easy because the the people's situations are different. The circumstances that you're walking in are different. So you need to pray for wisdom. It's what you're praying for, Lord. This is the thing. I think I got a rough guide, but, like, the lines are blurry to me. Can you give me wisdom in here? That's totally a righteous thing to pray on. Yeah. Alright. You wanna do one more? One more. Dear life from the path, I have been happily married for thirty years. Since my wife recently retired, her crossword hobby has become an obsession. She does them all day whether we are watching TV, talking, or eating meals. When we go out, she carries crossword puzzles to do or does them on her phone. When our kids visit, she ignores them and does crossword puzzles. During the last holiday celebration, she sat staring at her phone crosswords

instead of participating in family interactions. If she were my child, I would take away her phone, but she's an adult and my wife, so I can't do that. Before she retired, she did crossword puzzles two or three times a week, and we had fun doing them together. Now I'm completely ignored. I've talked to her about my feelings. It didn't help, so I'm hoping to get some good advice from you. It's tricky because he's talked to her. Would get right. The question is what he said and how he said it. Yeah. Exactly what I was thinking too. Debbie, I'm tired of these dang crosswords. Yeah. They're making me cross. You used to love me. If you were my child, I'd take away your phone. He has not considered the fact that maybe he annoys her

with his presence. I mean, honestly, that's an issue that that couples that get into retirement, you know, that they've spent decades apart from each other. You know. I'm terrified of that. I know. And all of a sudden, it's like, you're just here all the time. I've not I've not experienced that, but I've heard people have told me that is the first adjustment because the wife is like, you're just here. Can you leave? Yeah. You know? And so she escapes in the crossword puzzles Yeah. Probably too much. I was gonna say it sounds like weirdly she escapes when she's in normal conversations with him, and most of her daily life is in the crosswords. Man. I mean, I'm I'm still the same time, I think, man, if that's your problem, praise god. Here's what you should do. That's it. You you should go to the local dollar store. K? They always have this weird section that has the giant crossword books in them. Like, they're huge. Like, hundreds of pages of crosswords. And for, a buck 50. K? You're gonna buy three or four of those, and you're gonna spend a couple weeks. You're gonna do all of them. You're gonna complete every single one of those crosswords.

You're gonna gift them up, wrap them up, hand them to her, and she's gonna open up and see all these crosswords and be super excited. And be like, oh my gosh. He loves me, and he wants me to do what I love. And then she's gonna start flipping through those pages and see that all the crosswords are done. And then you will have been very vindictive and passive aggressive. I will say this sounds like very terrible advice. You will feel better. The heck is going on? You will feel better on the other side of that and go, damn it. That's what I think you're crossbite.

So I I would select there's a couple of things, I think, The first one is is did we get a sense for how long this she's been retired? Three years of that? It doesn't say. It doesn't say. Thought you said three years ago was a good retirement. I mean, it could be that, like, you know, she just get used to it. You know, if there was a free she used to like to do crosswords and now, like She's got all the time in the world. I'm a tell you this. Every once in while, my wife goes out of town. It's very rare. I'm generally out of town. She stays home. Every every once in a while, like, three or four years, she might go out of town and I binge cereal. There's never good cereal in my house. And when am I good cereal? I mean, the good sugary cereal you used to eat as a kid or whatever. Yeah. That's never at my place. We get these bland looking

cereals that we picked up at the Trader Joe's. It's not good. And so, I mean, the moment she's out the door, I'm out to head into the store and buying the crappiest, junkiest cereal and I eat it like a mad fiend. I'm swimming in it. I'm dumping it on my head. I'm taking selfies with it. It's fantastic. Okay? Because because there's a freedom in there. I feel like I've not been able to live fully. And here's the thing about it. About three days later, I'm like, oh, this is I'm glad my wife takes better care of me than I take care of myself. I feel like crap. I should not have eaten three boxes of cereal. Cookie Crisp is not to be taken in for four meals in a row. And so I learned my lesson and then I no longer do that. But, like, in those first three days, it feels so good and so righteous to have indulged in something that I don't really get to do fully. And so I I submit to you that depending on how long this has been, it's very possible that she just does not know what to do with the freedom and so is over cracking on these crosswords. Yeah. The second thing, though, is is that, like, there has to be something more compelling. I'm I like, she's I get it. She's got the myo she's myopic on these crosswords. And so are you telling me there's nothing that will take her away

from this kind of thing? Did you offer up to, hey. Maybe we should do some dance lessons. Hey. There's a movie happening in the park. Like, there've got to be some things that pull her head up from what she's doing and start to reengage her in the rest of the world. And, like, it is not your burden, like, you stink as a husband if you don't do this, but it is you helping her from looking so myopically at the world by putting some effort in trying to to drag her out of it. And so that would be my recommendation is woo her away from the crosswords. I mean, it's still pretty rough that her kids can't even do it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the kids show up and she's still on the crosswords. Now let me ask this. Is it possible that she has terrible kids because she's actually not a good person? Yeah. I think it's likely. Yeah. So that could be. Not just possible. I stayed last weekend with a a couple an older couple. He's 90. She's 76. Wait. Moses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan. And

Wait. Why do you say it like that? Why how did you take advantage of the old people? Yeah. How did that come about? Hey. I just need a place to stay. Let me find a couple of crazy in San Diego to speak at their church, and they said you can stay at our house and send people to San Diego over the age of 32? What? That's crazy to me. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry, Dan. Tell your old people story. Anyway, she had a stroke a few years ago. Oh. And the doctor said and she's fine now, but she has some memory lapse this once in a while. Everything else is fine. But the doctor said, keep your mind busy. So she has a board, like every time I saw her, every time she sat down, she grabbed a board, put it up, and was physically playing a hand solitaire. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She never stopped, and she would have conversations while she was doing engaged. But she and she got she because she was just trying to keep her mind active in her hands and her everything. And I thought, okay. I mean yeah. So maybe there's a physical thing. Maybe it's like she wants to hold off dementia. Maybe That's an interesting angle is that, like because, like, at the day when you go to retire, like, there is a finality that, like, I've moved into a stage of life Yeah. Of which certain things start to occur. And, like, if if you're worried about that oncoming,

like, keeping your mind engaged they say. Keep it yeah. Okay. I could see that. And so maybe she's I think that's what she's doing. She just went a little overboard. Yeah. But but Yeah. That's Let let her even that out a little bit. I wonder if secular thinks she's staving off dementia. I feel like he's That over she's not in it all the time? Yeah. You think he's sexually deprived? Yeah. He blames the crosswords? Well, mostly because he sounds attention deprived.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I wonder if, like, most he's actually you know, it's happening two or three times a day, but it's when he's at his excited most excited. And so he's like, she's ignoring me. But maybe she don't wanna do anything to with him because he stinks. He's got bad breath. Yeah. And he's ungrateful. She does them all day whether we're watching TV, talking, or eating meals. Like, it sounds like they're he needs to go away. Like, he needs to get out of the house some. And, like, you wouldn't notice Yeah. He's here all day too. Yeah. Staring at her. Yeah. He's survey Get out of my space. Some kind of surveillance if I die. Crossroad, he'll leave. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean hasn't worked yet. I it is interesting, like, the burden of which, like, you you retire and you're not working and your kids are out of the house and it almost feels like you're getting to, hey. Entertain me. Yeah. Like, what Yeah. Exactly. No. I bet she pick up my socks. She's an introverted person who recharges by herself. Herself. Yep. And because he is around all the time, she is just constantly drained and then, like, has no recharge time. He just he needs to try going. He needs a hobby. Yeah. I bet yeah. And and here's the thing. That kind of guy, if he was working his whole career, you didn't notice it because he got his, like, extrovert loving the people time when he was out. And now he's he's at home. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Take the burden off some of your wife. I think actually all the things. Put all the things in the bud. It's okay to woo her. It's okay.

Don't I know if you're not getting the attention you want from from her. That's fine. You introduced that angle. That wasn't in here. I think it's totally true. Okay. Yeah. Secular says, talk to your wife again. Tell her you no longer are willing to be ignored while she indulges in her obsession with crossword pose. Yeah. Be aggressive. What she's doing is unfair to you and the family. Oh, for instance. Suggest the two of you consult a licensed marriage and family therapist. Here it is. If she refuses, schedule some sessions for yourself. From what you have described, your marriage is in trouble, and your wife is using her crossword puzzles to escape from the real world. Oh, come on. Can you imagine being that therapist? Oh. She never stops doing crossword puzzles. Stop it. I've told her it hurts my feelings.

She's not there for when I'm feeling frisky. Oh, that's terrible advice. That's terrible advice. You don't Secular. Okay. Why is it bad advice? It went extreme pretty quick. It was all to the way to the floor. Yeah. I mean, it was It it it is. That escalated. Because you're probably not a world class communicator. Mhmm. And you probably didn't do the best job ever of letting her know that your needs while also considering her needs as a person. You probably just went, you're affronting me, and here's all the ways that I feel blah blah blah. I'm upset. This is amazing. And in no way went,

I can totally understand why with this change in your life that, like, at one point in time, this is something you'd were able to do scarcely and enjoyed it so much, and now you're able to do it so much, and you're still finding enjoyment at that. I can completely understand wanting to fill your time with things that you love. If you get that kind of consideration, the person then goes, oh, they have considered me, and now I can feel fine considering their thoughts as well. I Crazy how communication works. And not to, like, overly pat ourselves on the belly here, but, like, I feel like one of the values and how we talked about this is there are multiple options as to why she might be reacting it this way. It's possible that like, when people tend to tell their side of the story, it's not the entire truth. Even if they're not trying to be misleading, it just is limited by their angle Yeah. And tainted by some of their presumptions that exist in there. And so, like, it's again, it's not nefarious. It's just how people act. Yeah. And so recognizing that you don't start with your marriage is in trouble. We look, well, how do we get actually the right lay of the land? Let's start there. And then let's presume to to a conversation we started the show with is that things are always more nuanced than what you think. Once you start presuming people's motivations and then acting on those motivations, they do become self fulfilling.

You start seeing everything through that lens. You start reacting in that way. You're gonna end up divorced in five years, not because you should be, but because you made a presumption and didn't handle it well, and that's just the path that you decided to get on and then hook her on it and drag her down the rain. Yep. And so, yeah, that's terrible advice. And if you've been married this long, how many how many, like, paradigm shifts have you gone through in your marriage? Right. Like, you you dated at one point in time, and then that switched, and your expectations were probably different from each other's when you became engaged. Same as when you became married. Same as when you first had kids. Same as when your kids became teenager. There's so many different, like, shifts in your life you've had to navigate to be able to be bickering

about crossword puzzles in your sixties or whatever. Right? Like, part of this communication is being emotionally intelligent enough to know, hey, babe. I know something. Our lives are about to shift. You're about to retire. We're about to be so close to each other at all times. What kind of expectations do you have? What do you think our day to day is gonna look like? And she would have said, I can't stand you, so I think I'll be doing crossword puzzles all day every day. And he might have been, I think I'm looking forward to the time we're gonna spend together even if it's just watching TV and having dinner, being close to each other. That would And sharing those expectations. It's crazy how you can get on the same page before the freaking shift happens. Well, yeah, that that would have been that would have been a game changer if he would have said, hey. Why are you doing all these crosswords all the time? And then provided us the answer. What did she say? And she had the freedom to answer honestly without feeling like being belittled or less stupid. Yeah. No. I'm not. I'm not be rating you for making a choice. I'm trying to understand the choice that you've made. Yeah. Yeah. Ben, why did you eat all that cereal while I blame him. Right. Is there this weird FOMO that you have where you feel like you're being you're being, you know, held back Yes. And not allowed to enjoy yourself all the time. I'm a grown man. I just wanna eat cereal. I just wanna eat cereal because it makes me feel blah or I like this about it. Blah blah blah blah. This man is lazy. Can we can we work into our normal day to day that Ben gets a freedom choice every once in a while where it's like, hey, babe. I hate the Trader Joe's granola every once in a while. Is it okay if I get the little back fruits? Like a wild bronco when I'm gonna eat just cereal.

Just let me be me. What's your marital what's your marital cheat meal? Actually, here's the thing. I'd like at its core, most marriages struggle with unmet expectations because they were unarticulated.

Yep. Yeah. And and not and not and even when articulated, not positively or humbly received. Mhmm. The 90%. No joke. There's there's legit things to argue about within those expectations, but most people don't even get past that spot right there. Nope. Right. Alright. You let me down. That's right. That's right. Yeah. It what it's an attack. One of the one of the best things that I've realized in almost three years of marriage, like, I suck at it, but, like, there's one thing that we have both tried to to hold true is, wait. If there's an argument or an affront or someone is hurt, like, if my wife if I say something to my wife that that sounded harsher than I meant to or vice versa, we both look at each other and go, okay. There's no scenario

in which that person was trying their hardest to be the most hurtful thing they could possibly be. Like, it's just not how it goes. Like, I'm not married to someone who is trying to viciously attack my heart, nor am I trying to do hers. And so if I took it in in a way that's like, oh, that was vicious and a spit in my face, I take a step back and go, well, I know that woman. Mhmm. And I know her heart. And I know there's no chance in the world that that's what she was trying to do with that. And so I'm a take that with a spoon and or the spoon medicine, whatever, and go, okay. What it sounded like you said was this, but I know that's not true. So let's just move past that and go, okay. What did you mean? Yeah. Like, where did that come from? Let's be honest and open and willing to go, I don't understand what you mean, and I'm willing to be dumb enough to ask you to tell me. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. You're listening live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. We very much appreciate it. If you got any feedback for us on the show, you hate it, you love it, you'd like to share it with your friends, but you're slightly embarrassed. All these things are known. You can give us a call or text on the live from The Path. Bob Eiseler, paint line (515) 517-0085.

That's call or text (515) 517-0085. And I will I don't I don't know what next week. We're supposed to have Vivek Romaswami. Is that right, Buba? Did you get him? Okay. Buba booked him. He's gonna be on I don't know. BUVA handle. I don't even know who these people are. He's getting the yes. Anyway, we'll talk to you next time. In the meantime, be faithful to means. God will head to the end. You've been listening to live From The Back.