Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the Path. And you are listening to Live from the Pathway from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Proper.

Is there an opposite of of Johnston Proper? No. No. Okay. Nope. Just trying to think if there's a good John Johnston Johnston Rural Ruffer? Collective. Rural collective. Hey. You wanna know something crazy? Yes. I do. I think my mom met Muhammad Ali once. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. In what circumstances? I think they were at an airport together.

Not, like, not like they were flying together, but I think story has come about in my family recently, that, my mother was at an airport with her friend, and they were at a layover. I don't know. Maybe Chicago. It sounds like the only place my mom would have gone to when she was maybe 20. And Muhammad Ali was there. Yep. And she, like, went up with her friend to say hi and say, oh my gosh. It's nice. This would have been the eighties, so, like, big deal. And the there's a continued story that I don't know if I could trust or not that that they ended up having dinner together. I don't know if it's true or not. I'm I'm not gonna trust it. I'm not gonna trust it either, but there is a chance,

a very slim chance that my mother had a a a meal, a shared a meal with Muhammad Ali. In in in the airport? In the airport. Yeah. Like, they didn't, like, meet up afterwards and go to a right. Yeah. Like, they didn't like, hey. Let's go to Benihana together, and Mohammed was like, I got this. Like, float like butterfly, sting like a bee. Pay for dinner for you and me. It was they they had dinner together at an airport. I'm not I'm not gonna believe this. Okay. I don't know if I believe it or not, but it just came about from conversations with my family recently that that might have happened. But if anyone would do it, your mom would do it. She she she she Agrees. She would yeah. Maybe maybe I'm starting to believe it. Yeah. She was tenacious. She would have been like, hey, mister Ali. My name is Penny. It's nice to meet you. What are you doing for dinner in this airport that we're in right now? And she would have pulled out a can of hairspray. True. And she would have she would have, like, aquanetted herself into a whole perm. It would have been great. And so I choose to believe that that my mother had a dinner date with Muhammad Ali. How do you what what is that is that the closest touch you have with greatness, Buva, or, like, have you met? The closest touch I have with greatness

is a fantastic way to put that. Have you met a celebrity? Or I have met multiple celebrities. Yes. What what's the what what's the one I would recognize? Clint Eastwood? No. I had lunch with Andrew Zimmern from Bizarre Foods. Oh, yeah. Let's let's go with above a c list. That's rude. Travel channel. I'm I had a I had a drink with the lead singer of the band, Jackal, the guy who own used to own the the the giant Sturgis bar

that, like, they did, like, the full throttle saloon, I think, is what it used to be called. No. The other way. Like, the way the alphabet goes is the the the a b is better. I understand what you're saying. I don't know what I'm I'm sorry. Okay? I didn't have dinner with muddy waters if that's what you're looking for right now. That's not what happened. Trying to think of your old self and what you might consider a b or a lister. Like like Bob Saget. I'm sorry. Bob Saget is your a or b lister? He's certainly a step above Andrew Zimmer. Hey. Andrew Zimmer was not a great guy. Oh. Yeah. I'm willing to say that on the radio show. I'd I I'm gonna give him the benefit of doubt, and I'm gonna say that he probably was had been away from home for a long time and was either shooting for multiple days in in a row or whatever. There was just an interaction that I wished would have gone one way, and it did not. And I was not impressed by the situation, but

knowing that celebrities are human beings and are way too often deified, he probably was just having a rough day. Okay. Hang out with, Farrah Fawcett for a while once. Really? For a while once is very descriptive. Hold on, c d e f lister. You you forget yourself. Dan, share your a list story. Well well, I mean, I had the poster. I knew that was what you were gonna say. Gosh. Dan, I like, I'm gonna give you the benefit of doubt. Your dreams are very real, and you wake up and you don't know if it was real or not. I defended you, Dan. He did. And you're just a a typical dude in the seventies saying that you had a poster of Farrah Fawcett and had a dream. I thought I was the only one who had that poster. Oh, of course. Yeah. You not every dude in your school had that same poster. Sure. Wall of mirrors, that little square 12 by 12 square 12 inch square mirrors. I'm terrified of Blue design. It was all over the walls. It was a big wall of mirrors and a big aquarium, and then I had my Farrah Fawcett poster on the other side. How old were you in this scenario? Junior high. I don't know. That seemed right. Wow. That seemed right. You were in junior high when Farrah Fawcett was still doing posters? Well, I mean, the poster could have been was it brand new when it came out, Dan? Did you I can't answer that. Hot off the hot off the nipple? Interesting. Single mom, if you got, like, you know, few years later at a garage sale, but I don't know. Okay. Hey, Lester. What's yours? No. I don't have any. I don't know the famous people. You've never touched greatness. Is that what you're saying? No. No. You creeper? Let me see here. No. Did you ever have dinner with Muhammad Ali in an airport?

No. Then you mean nothing to me. Oh, I think that's fair. I said hello to some famous politician at the Chicago Airport, and he looked at me like, Don't talk to me. In the Windy City, you met a politician? Yeah. Yeah. Hard to believe. From Iowa. I can't think of his name, but but that's okay. Chuck Grassley? No. No. No. I don't know him. I actually have met him. I gave him one of my books. I I did a conference conference for him once. You gave one of your books to Chuck Grassley? I said, hey. I don't this isn't like Dan, that's a better story than your fairy faucet dream.

I I said, this isn't like a bribe, is it? I mean, can you can you take this? Like, just a little Iowa story. Iowa guy. He goes, no. I'll take that. It's okay. Yeah. I'm sure he threw it away. I'm gonna write a book and then give it to a politician now. That's the epitome Well of greatness. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You're listening to life from the path. If you've had a run-in with greatness that beats so far, you need to beat Andrew Zimmern. That's that's the one to beat. Okay. You're making it seem like it's not that cool. I was super pumped about that. No. I no. I understand. I I don't Oh, I understand that you found it fun. Yeah. My brother rode bicycles with William Shatner.

Okay. That beats it. Okay. That totally beats miles. Yeah. They used to have some Des Moines. Some Rag Bri or something? No. No. Like, some Des Moines bike ride thing. With William Shatner? William Shatner came because his character from Star Trek is from Iowa? Maybe so. I I don't know. I was younger now. Think he was telling about that. He was he was quite in shape evidently. My brother was the only guy who could stay up with him. Wow. That's kinda yeah. I was gonna say Shatner captain Kirk was from Lamoni? No. No. I it's not it's it's another step to of unrecognizable town below that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Riverside. So, yeah, hit us up with a text or a call on the live from the path complaint line (515) 517-0085. Can you beat William Shatner on a bicycle for celebrity interactions? I'm I'm curious. I would I would like to know. But so far, the bracket for Andrew's Riverside has already been okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Riverside makes sense. Sorry. Okay. We got a couple quick articles on the show, and we'll do some advice, and we're gonna I like how we the pod the show seems like a a hostage negotiation. Like, you've you've happened upon it, and we're holding you here. And so I like to think about, we'll do a couple of things, do some advice, and get you out of here. We're not gonna hold you for too long. Like, yeah, you wanna get on to the buffet or whatever it is that you're doing. So interestingly, there was an article, this is from the Christian Post, megachurch pastor details common misconceptions about the holy spirit. Oh, boy. K. Any Buba, did you any predictions out

of one of these what they might be? The holy spirit allows me to do all things through Christ who strengthens me, and, therefore, I am able to do any physical lift or any physical thing I need to do. Okay. Is that wait. Hold on. Is that the verse quote, though? What? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me? Yeah. Yeah. But that's not the they they didn't blame the holy spirit for that. They blamed you. No. I was just I was being dumb. No. I agree with that. So so so the megachurch pastor is telling you these are things the holy spirit does not do? No. No. He has his common misconceptions. Okay. Let's hear what the what the people say and what the megachurch pastor has said straightforward. Okay. Here it goes. This is from Benny Tate. Holy cats. Those are some Joe Biden teeth.

That is the whitest man I've ever come across. He needs he's two buttons down on a white polo wearing a bright blue blazer. He's got a set of Joe Bidens on him, grinning from ear to ear. That's probably his real hair, but he has not seen a he's not seen the sun in in a decade for sure. Some some real vitamin d deficiency? Yeah. Yeah. He says anyway, he wrote a book, and he says people misunderstand the holy spirit in many different ways. Let's see if we we agree. Tate told the Christian Post that holy spirit is often misunderstood because Christians either o overemphasize the holy spirit in extreme and unbiblical ways or disregard the holy spirit out of fear or ignorance about its importance. Okay? I'm with him so far. K. So far so good, Joe. A common misconception people have is that when Christians often think of the Holy Spirit, many times they think of the Holy Ghost. What? As in like those are two separate things? Oh, I don't know. That's weird. He says, and that seems mystic. That maybe even seems spooky. Just sounds King James. Yeah. Yeah. Does he does he really think that it's it's prevalent? When people hear holy spirit, they're like, I know you really mean the holy ghost, the spooky, creepy holy ghost. Like, I mean, I get that it might be a barrier, but I'm not sure that people just that's where they were right. That's where they reach. Like, they don't like, if if you say holy ghost, you generally require an interpretation to go, we're talking about the holy spirit, and then say more about it. But if someone says holy spirit, I don't know that most people are going, he definitely means the holy ghost. Are there, like, some churches that really emphasize holy ghost over holy spirit? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe KJV?

Yeah. I've heard. I wonder if it's it's the thing. Holy Ghost is generation thing. It's in society. Yeah. Yeah. He says, that seems mystic. That may even seem spooky. That may seem weird. I think many times when people think of spirit, they think of an energy. They think of enthusiasm, and they fail to realize that he is a person. Okay. Fair enough. The holy spirit is a person who has a mind, who has will. That's not really a person. I this An energy. Yeah. Not really an energy. Yep. Yep. He says people think an energy. Yeah. They think an enthusiasm like a ball of inertia. I don't know. My spirit energy and the holy spirit. Yeah. I here's the thing. I I I understand why this is hard because we Ball of ectoplasm. We don't exist in this way, and even the concepts that we have of, like, soul and spirit don't quite describe the holy spirit And in the same so, like, it's a fundamentally different being while also being God at the same time. So I get that there's a bunch of stuff that's kinda difficult to sort out and

I often this is how we would generally describe the book of Revelation as well, is that sometimes we look at the language and we try to we read John as if he's often talking about physical, tangible things, but like, Right. If if I were to believe that he was into the heavenlies and got to see all this stuff, you have to know that the English language is failing him or the Greek language at the time is failing him. Like, it we just don't quite have the words. Yeah. He can't even describe the throne room in in words that we would understand. He's referring to, like sometimes we're talk like, primarily, the script think of the throne is is is jewels. Right? Jasper. Carnelian. Carnelian. Yeah. Right. Is it really like a made out of a giant carnelian? It's not. In fact, we're not even quite sure what a carnelian is. You know what I was gonna say? I thought that one was still kind of the the rulings out on it still. It's debatable. Right? But, like, if you think of it, he's given the majesty of it as a bunch of jewels. Right. Well, like, you're getting a concept without the words aren't literal because we don't want it to be literal. It's because he's he's trying to describe something that our words probably can't contain. Yeah. The c stood in front of it. Something of Like glass. Wealth worth beyond

your imagination. Yes. Right. You know, it's these gems. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're relating it to something. Splendor and And so invaluable and all these different things. So, yeah, so it makes sense that the Holy Spirit is kinda difficult. Like, I think we that's that's fine. Yeah. He says, it wasn't until he entered his forties that he was able to get to know the Holy Spirit intimately. For many years, he battled with how to approach teaching and studying on the topic. The pastor believes many churches don't realize how ignorant Christians are regarding their understanding of the Holy spirit. Says in my own life, I had been taught misconceptions. I've been taught things about the holy spirit that were just not true. Blah blah blah blah blah. I think I mean, this is a great lead up. Let's get get to the points here, Chuck. I think when it comes to the holy spirit nope. He already said that. On the other end of things, I think many people suffer from indulgence. They have heard things about the Holy Spirit, blah blah blah. Tate said he'll never forget the day he came into the Holy Spirit as someone he could be in intimate relationship with, saying he could not do ministry on adrenaline,

but instead he could only do it through the presence of the Holy Spirit. Okay. I got a list. Yeah. I think many times we're seeking something rather than seeking somebody. There are fruits of the Spirit. There are gifts of the Spirit. I don't think we should seek the fruit. I don't think we should seek gifts even though they're good. I think we simply seek the Holy Spirit and a byproduct of that is having the gifts or having the fruit of the spirit in our lives. Okay. What do you think of that? Yeah. Can't disagree with it. I mean, it's Right. Like, I'm not I'm not I'm I'm not trying to find myself in a place where I, like, have the gift of tongues, and I'm seeking after that or the gift of, like, what is it, discerning of spiritual, or or false spirits and all those different things. I can't remember the gifts of the spirit. But and so I would say that those things are an outpouring of having the spirit in your heart Mhmm. And, like, within you.

And the fruits of the spirit are the way to see that you are connected, and, like, that is what the people who are who are inhabited by the spirit exist and live like. And so, yeah, I think that's fair that you're not you're not specifically seeking out gifts or fruits. You're you're seeking out a closeness to to your god

in which we have a blessing that is the holy spirit. I think it's like you pursue a marriage, right, and with marriage comes a lot of things, companionship and all these different little things that happen. Hopefully you're not really pursuing those little things as much as you're pursuing that person. Right. Is that kind of what he's saying? You get the big bucket that comes with pursuing. Yeah, those are perks of the relationship. Yeah, yeah, it just kind of goes with it. Yeah. And I I get the reach for because, like, the fruits are are seem tangible. You could look at your life. You could look at someone else's life and go, okay. I see that. I see this. Right. Yep. Pursuing a relationship Kinda what it was. With this spirity, ghosty, non energy,

not quite soul type of like like, I I get it. Uh-huh. But it's the same but it's it's it is literally the same thing as as talking about having a relationship with an eternal god. Like, it's it's a being Right. Wholly unlike you but of which you carry his image attributes to a certain extent into the world. And so we tend to reach for the tangible. It's the thing that also tends to make us legalistic is because shy of just living in a loving relationship with God and giving him your whole mind, heart, spirit or whatever. We tend to reach for measures because it's hard to

feel or find some level of validation in the relationship itself. And so we look for measures which you would do in a human relationship too. Yes. Like if you like, hey, do you have a good relationship with your spouse? I mean, you try to measure some level of tangible things in addition to how does it feel. There's an evaluation there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, I understand kinda why we end up with this. I get a little weirded out and and I I've used it myself, so but but when you talk about an intimate relationship Mhmm. With the spirit, because then your mind goes like, Well, that even look like? I mean, I'm not even talking like a physical intimacy. I'm just like, What is an intimate relationship with a being you've never seen? Right. Define

that. And I've tried to figure out my own self, my own way of communicating. How do I communicate the relationship with God? Because there's so many things packed into that, the sovereignty, the awe, the reverence, the love, the- Fear. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's the weird, it's no other place in do you have this dichotomy of you have a perception

of being able to have a close relationship with a being who like you have no right to be able to have a close relationship with. And who, like we were given the impression obviously could have close relationships with all the people. Like,

is there's no earthly comparison to it. It's like I talk with him all day. Right. But I I don't know how to describe that. Yeah. Right. An earthly king example would fail because could talk to the king all day if you wanted to out into the air and he would a, not hear it and b, probably not care. He couldn't possibly keep up with the relationship with you. You do not really have any level of intimacy. You you're just talking to at him.

Yeah. Of which we would go, hey. You shouldn't just do that with God. But, like, that requires God's responding back to it of which you have no control over and of which, again, is a human concept of which we can't replicate anywhere else. And so it's just beyond the human mind. It's beyond the human example. And so, again, I'd like, I think you should be maybe one of my encouragements here is to be patient with yourself where you're like, I'm not sure how this works. I'm not sure you should. Like, like, how how much how much of these ideas of interacting with god should you fully understand? Mhmm. I I think it's normal. I think it is a thing to continue to pursue. I think the sanctification process, not only in just its reflection of how you live your life, but like how many things crack through the veil. Yeah. How often you're seeing God work and move. Yep. You're hearing his voice. You're recognizing the way that he's putting or shaping things around you. And again, it doesn't mean you're holy, not holy by measure of how often that's happening, but like, I do think some of the things that are harder for humans to perceive

given just how you live your lives here. You've already started your eternity and eternity continues to crack through and I think that's right. You should continue to pursue that because obviously that eternity gets you closer and closer into this relationship with God, but don't be surprised if the words fail you, if your experience is not the same as everybody else's, if it doesn't happen by some sort of logical stair tread walk up. It's probably not like that, and it's probably wrong to presume that it can be prescribed in that way. Tate believes he says, I think we can get caught up many times. I think sometimes people get caught up with the sensational and they miss the significance. Oswald Chambers once said, The Holy Spirit is the first practical power we come to experience, but he's the last power that we come to understand in the Christian life. I think oh, that sounds right to me too. Yeah.

Tay believes it is imperative that Christians come to understand the Holy Spirit to maximize what their life ought to be for God, and that it is impossible to experience the fullness of God's power without the belief in the Holy Spirit. Well, that makes sense. Like, that's essentially what Jesus is saying. Yes. Exactly. Like, if we can't do what he does without the the presence of God as the helper in those things, then obviously I cannot live within the fullness of God, a, under my own steam, and b, frankly, without him not only just doing powerful things, but, like, making sure you're taking it in right and well and Mhmm. Seeing him in those types of things. That makes sense. It's common for new believers to misunderstand who the Holy Spirit is, and more seasoned Christians need to work to combat these misconceptions. Okay. I mean, get to them, brother. Yeah. Are we not going through the misconceptions? Yeah. I I don't. Actually, maybe there's not a list. I just presume there was a list. Okay. Here we go. He said some churches have played a part in the perpetuation of false theologies relating to the holy spirit. He said, one example is when congregants in a church believe that they have a prophetic gift to speak future prophecies for other congregants. Not every Christian has been gifted every spiritual gift, Tate noted, referencing first Corinthians twelve eight through 10. I agree with that. As a matter of fact, I had a had a pastor

acquaintance of mine just randomly ran into me at a Starbucks and he had asked me, he's like, someone claims to have been given a prophetic word wants to speak it to the congregation. He's like, I'm not sure what to do. I'm not sure what to do about it. No. One of the things we talked through was

if I were in some of the early church situations that I've presented in scripture, this feels like a yeah. Right.

At least more likely a yes. Yeah. Right? In Or would they get the written they didn't have the written word. Right. Right. Or is god's got somehow communicate to his church. Yeah. Right. That's right. In the modern in the modern times, like, the part of our discussion was it's like, do I believe God has to have stopped doing things? I think a a prophecy for, like, everybody, like, he's not he's not adding to scripture here.

But it doesn't mean that he doesn't use people to speak to individual lives, circumstances, communities for And so this could be fine. However, given how often this appears to have been misused, misrepresented, people believe like, they really just wanna say something, and they're acting like because they had an idea, it must have been with the Lord. So the distinction between the God's voice and your conscience should be super clear, and if it isn't, you should probably not speak. But like that was the thing we were kinda talking through is like you don't wanna

you don't ever wanna be a person who silences the active work of the spirit through people in gifts that the scriptures have laid out that God could be using today, but your caution is also warranted. Yeah, right. And so it is but to the extent I think where we ended up was to the extent that God wants to use this person to speak to your congregation in this way, God will understand that you're asking him to provide some sort of validation. So pray on it. Like pray fervently and say, God, just, you know I'm trying to protect the right thing here, but I don't wanna be in the way of your goodness. So can you help me? Show me something, make my spirit be at peace about it, whatever it is,

so that I feel either feel good about this or I feel like it should be stopped. Because like the same God's not gonna suppress that and go, good luck. I hope you don't screw it up. Right. I I don't believe that about God, and so that was I think that was the course of action we ended up on. Yeah. I think that's reasonable. There's there's people that I've interacted with that, like, it's you can you can tell that, like, the thing that they have to say, it it's never like a grandiose, like, hey. I have to say things that the Lord wanted me to say, and I need to do it in front of this entire congregation and stuff like that. It's weird conversations where they're like, hey. I need to pull you inside because, like Mhmm. Just a heads up. Like, I've been praying recently, and the Holy Spirit has just been putting, you know, a random country on my heart. Does that mean anything to you? Like, is that hitting you at all? Like, I have friends that, like, they're going on they're going on years long trips to, like, different parts of the world because they've been praying about something for years, and then strangers who know nothing about this are coming up to them and going, hey. By the way, Egypt.

Like, Egypt is where you're going. And they're like, you could not have possibly known that. They're like, yeah. I know. But, like, the lord is telling me you need to be you need to be preparing yourself to be living in Egypt now. That's exactly what's happening. It's like, okay. That's weird, but, like, it's never been like, okay. The Lord I I I'm prophesying the word of the Lord, then I need 3,000 people to hear it while I stand on this stage and talk about it. And I'm not saying that'll never happen or that never works. Like you said, Ben, there's way to vet ways to vet that out and ask for God to to, like, allow that to be comfortable in your heart or in your spirit or whatever, but, like Yep. Yeah. It's just it's more often like, hey. I know you're teaching people, and the holy spirit has told me that you're not reading your bible. You need to figure that out now. It's like, oh, crap. Okay. Yep. Right. I got pointed out by the holy spirit. And then there was another the the second example, which I think is a common one for consideration. He said he warned about speaking in tongues in a false manner by congregants who want attention to be on themselves and not on god. He said those congregants are often not truly rooted in biblical motives. I I think that's also true. I I like so so much of that. Again, I I think there's a legit I don't have any reason to think that this is not still happening. Right. But, like, so many of the expressions are counter to the way that Paul even describes it. Yep. That like I don't understand actually how people are reconciling that. They're often pointing it to something for themselves and it doesn't often seem to be serving the same function, right? Like, understood, Paul goes, don't do it.

Like it seems to be that the spirit used this both for like multitudes, basically the reversing of Babel Right. Where one message gets to multiple people regardless of the language because God's That's very interesting. And or Paul describes it mostly as a personal gift of which God is interacting with him. And so most expressions that I've seen, I've been a part of a witness are like mass places.

People are standing up in the middle of like a specific prayer time and like I have no idea what they're saying. Right. And it seems to be the very thing that Paul was up against and had warned against. And so again, don't throw out baby with the bathwater. Get why some of these are like difficult and what place or what way should we think about these gifts. I'm not willing to say that God can't continue to do what he wants to do here but it should actually align with the way the scriptures are talking about them, the evidence of the spirit acting in these ways and a lot of times our expressions do not. And, like, there's a maybe it's a misunderstanding on my part, you guys are, you know, obviously welcome to correct me, but, like, is there not, like, almost companion gifts

that come along with these ones that would need a discernment along with them, like a discernment of prophecy or false prophets, like a discernment of, like, an interpreter for someone speaking in tongues. Like, it almost seems like if God's going to send this thing and it's meant to be, prophetic or it's meant to be, enriching for his community, he's going to send also gifts to people that can then make certain that it does exactly that. It enriches the community or it is prophetic for them or there the it it means something because God's not just gonna drop a message that means nothing for no reason. And, like, people can pervert that very easily. And Yeah. And and so, of course, God's gonna protect that. Yeah. I actually think that's a good that's an excellent point because two things are are true. One, he he's a god of confusion. He's not a god of chaos. He's he's you know I'm saying? So, like, he he's not

trying to, like, drop these, like, I hope you figure it out type of stuff. And so yes, if something requires interpretation, he's going to provide it. Just like I have whole confidence that God would help that pastor associate like figure out whether he should allow someone to speak or not speak. But I think it also, like, in the same line, like, would be odd what you would have to believe about God's character Right. To think that he would,

like, drop things that are, like, you gotta be Sherlock Holmes about it. Right. Intentionally cryptic from the perspective of, oh, this is gonna be a doozy for them. Right. Now I I mean, I do find that that the oftentimes and the the experience that I've had or that I've I've known people that have had with the way the holy spirit works is like, you're not probably getting like a paragraph of stuff. And so like, for an example, we were contemplating my wife and I on deciding to help in a situation where there was a young couple and there had been some drug use and basically,

one of the, the lady was pregnant and she was gonna give birth and the child was likely to be taken away because of the drug use or whatever. Yeah. And so after the baby was born, they said, look, if they could find a place to kind of start to recover and a safe place to raise the baby for a little bit, then they can find some kind of rehab facilities. We're like, I just, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if this makes sense to do. And obviously, like we've got young children in the house and taking on the responsibility for a baby, especially when folks are coming off using like it would be a commitment of sorts. And so we were praying through it and my wife distinctly heard like, Love her. Like that was the response. She felt like she heard very clearly from God was to love her. Now that could apply to the mother. Yeah. It could have applied to the daughter. It could apply to both.

I get it. So like but but that is not unambiguous in like our option was obviously we were saying yes. We were saying yes to and we did to this particular situation. But god can god do multiple layers with the things that he says? Of course. But like, if we were just not praying on anything and all of a sudden my wife is just praying normal daily stuff and here's the phrase love her, then I expect one or two things like then I expect that God is going to provide further context as to what that means. And it may not be that day. It may show up six months or six years or twenty years down the road and something else clicks and now God goes, Yes, I seeded something because I wanted you to know I was listening and I have something for you but it's a not yet. And you may not know what that is and so to trust that God is not gonna go, Hey, I hope you figure that out because you might suck if you don't. He's a good father. He doesn't do that just like I wouldn't do that to my kids and he's better than me significantly. And so I think that some of the, as we think about

people who have what feel like super ambiguous situations or things where people are like confused by it, either it's a timing thing or it's not coming from the Spirit because I do not believe God's character would have him just drop confusion, especially who's it most likely to confuse is people who want to serve him. Right. Exactly. People who desperately will hear a word and go, I want to go do that take action on it. And who are, like, itching. Like, I just wanna know what to do with this. Like, why he wouldn't do it. I'm just not I'm not buying it. And so, like, states of confusion you don't just get to drop confusion bombs and go, well, god used me in this way. I don't it just doesn't make sense with this character. Right. He said, many churches in America, this is the other side, are one extreme or another extreme. They're almost a cemetery. That is to say they're dead. They're lifeless. There's no life there. That's what lifeless means. Or on the other end, there are churches that are almost an insane asylum. Things are going on that are so in the name of the Spirit. There's no biblical base for it. He said a church should have an equilibrium of the workings of the Spirit of truth and the gifts of the Spirit, Tate said, adding that they should avoid any extremes of either the absence of the Holy Spirit or people falsely claiming they are operating in the spirit and leading others astray.

Now here's my caution. Mhmm. Is that the active work of the Holy Spirit, I feel like can seem extreme. That's what I was just about to say. So saying It could be very crazy. It feels like it really it could, but the but I think it goes down to, are you trying to force a measure? Like, if some sort of wildness isn't happening, if the holy spirit doesn't go, hey. Set fire to a pew in the parking lot lest I'm so I can bring a man to you. If that kind of thing is not happening, you're like, well, it should be. Like, that's a problem. Yeah. But you should be prepared for just about anything to come from the direction of the spirit, presuming it aligns with the character of God and and, like, is is the type of thing that would otherwise either serve Him, serve other I know what he's warning against. I would just I think the other caution is that like in a search to try to hold on

to fight against the extremes of how people are reacting, I think you've gotta be careful that you don't otherwise handcuff what could be the overturning of the world type of work that the Holy Spirit does. That would be the old, like that's actually the biblical medium there and I'd be cautious that you don't overly handcuff it. Right. Dan, were you gonna say something? Well, I was just thinking of all the awesome videos out there of people suddenly hopping around and barking like dogs and running around in circles in auditorium in their worship spaces and I think, yeah, that's probably not the Holy Spirit. That's

probably more of a culture of frenzied activity, but you feel spiritual. Right, that's true. Because you're getting affirmation, oh, the spirit really moved I in you could see it. Old Donnie's dancing today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is funny. Do you that that there's not been a string of Pentecostal workout videos, like exercise types of things. You wanna talk about booba? Yeah. Yes. I know what you're talking about. I mean Sweet Moses. Doing crunches because the pastor threw a spirit bomb at you? We call this the holy roller. The holy Oh,

gosh. I I will be honest, I love watching those videos. I hate them at the same time, but, like Put on when you see the pants for going to church. I I love when I see, like, the pastor that, like, uses his sports coat to, like, mow down, like, a group of his like, the congregation. And, like, he'll spin it around and spin it around and then, and then, like, 12 people will get knocked over onto their butts. And they're like, oh, man. We really got hit by the spirit from pastor John today. It's like, what is wrong with you? Have you have you guys seen the guy who who does clips called the holy nope? Oh, I love it. He's great. One of favorites. Yeah. He's pretty yeah. You should check it out. Like, just search him on the Facebook or whatever you look at nowadays or have your wife do it. I'm like I mean, I can still Google. Okay. You sure you sure it'll come up. He's anyway, like, it's it it it tends to be examples of, like, outrageous

behavior like coats and dancing and, like, just weird things that people are saying that don't make any valid sense at all. There's been a couple times where I thought I felt actually like he might be handcuffing the spirit just a hair. However but most of them, you're like, yes. That is an obvious excess. Yeah. I'm glad he's pointing them out. Yes. I've just seen the the televangelist stuff where the guy's, like, sitting there speaking in tongues because he's trying to get more money, and he was saying, like, oh, baba kanda. Baba kanda. And you're Yamaha. Was there was But a Chevy, but I should've bought a Kia. He's he's doing a there's a number of clips on there where, like, people are obviously supposed to, like, fall down or react. And they don't? And they don't? Yes. You can tell there's, like, the look in their eyes. Oh, yeah. Shoot. I was supposed to Yeah. Fall down. Okay. I believe when you have a balance of the word of god and the spirit of god, people will blow up and people will dry up, but the people will also grow up. Okay. Blow up, dry up, or grow up. So you're free out sermon out life. Yeah. That's the plan of god. The plan of god is his spirit and truth. Dan, that's your challenge. Make a sermon about that. Let's see. First Kings 20. He said Christians should always check their motives before using any gift given by the holy spirit. Take note of it because sometimes the enemy can mislead people to believe they have a spiritual gift they don't actually have. That's totally true. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. For every true thing in the word of God, Satan has a counter. And it's true. That always stuck with me.

What was the example with the Darnell where the weeds and the weeds are growing up? And it was Satan cannot he doesn't destroy the weeds because he can't. All he can try to do is poison something good that God has created. Like part of the looks very similar. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, that's part of the image is that like he can't just

can try to corrupt something that is good but he can't actually make something that God said is good not good. Yeah. And that example always stuck with me in that every time that you see something where you're like, yes, this would be good and righteous to serve the God and serve people in this type of way, Like, there will often be the presence of some desire or attempt to taint it. And so like example is for every

legitimate homeless dude out there who like is not he can't do anything but beg. I I I think about the people at the Gate Beautiful and, like, like, people whose friends would carry them out there because, like, it was legitimate. They didn't this was the only thing they could do. Right. And they were doing something. Mhmm. For every one of those guys, there might be 10 guys who are charlatans, who are like trying, you know, representing themselves as worse off than they are or whatever. And like, if you get out of the business of helping people who are in that situation, you may be trying to punish the 10 but the one guy who actually had no other option, he's desperate and trying to do whatever he can for him and his family, he also gets hit in that scenario. And so like, can't be that, it's not that binary. Like, we have to try to recognize when people are trying to poison something, when Satan's trying to poison something, it's because there's some goodness that God might be going after in that same area. So we can rarely wash our hands of it and go, I no longer give money to

nonprofits because I'm worried about blah blah blah. That might be a right caution friend but you can't get out of the business. So you either have to accept the risk or do some digging, but we can't bail. And the same thing when interacting with people who need help, people who can be where scams can exist, it's only because people have legitimate needs and the scam plays on emotions. But it plays on your emotions because there may be a legitimate need there. So, anyway, like, those those the things stick with me that anytime I get real cautious, I'm like, I'm not gonna be taken advantage of. One of the things I need to look for is like, okay, how would I sort this out because it's not acceptable to bail Right. Just because he's planting Darnell in the field. Yeah. Mimicry is effective. What?

That's a bumper sticker for sure. Mimicry is is effective. Flip it around. If Ben would have said that, it would have been just fine. I wouldn't say it. Yes. You would. No. I would not. I have known you for twenty years. That is something you would say. No. I don't I don't I don't think so. Well, I'm a mimicry. You would say that because mimicry is effective. He would say, I can promise this. If something is truly of god, I believe the child of god will know it's of god. I just believe that if it's not of god, I believe the child of god would be able to know that too.

There was eight of gods in that sense. Okay. Here's this is the end of the article. I do they want me to buy the book? Is that the deal? Like, we don't get Of it is. I don't get usually, people at least willing to give away two or three points of, like, common miss I I mean, suppose we kinda got them, but, like You were looking for a clean list like most media is nowadays. I mean, kinda. I I would okay I'm okay with the paragraph format, but, like, he didn't even get to, like, here's a common misconception. Here's another one. Like, something that at least allows me to get topic. Yeah. Okay. Anyway Mimicry is effective. I don't know. I don't know. That's true. Anyway, this guy if you're interested in his book, Unlimited, Experiencing the Fullness of God's Power in Your Life by Benny Tate. No. I'm alright. Courtesy of Benny Tate. Is that is that right?

Courtesy of Benny Tate? That's a picture. This Joe Biden picture of him has said he provided it himself. That means he looked at him and went, yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, I suppose you would. He's milky white. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. Actually, there was a similar article. What are we doing on time here? It's 10:22. Oh. Oh, for heaven's sakes. I'm not reading this. There was another I thought this was interesting compare in comparison because there was an article from CrossMath Blogs called how normal people hear from god. Oh. So so this seems pretty interesting except for it's all written in bold.

Oh, man. Oh, I bet you hate that. If everything is bold, nothing is bold. You hear me? Like, you can't emphasize the entire article. You you you use bold to emphasize certain portions. Not the only who thinks he's really got something good going on there. Fair fairly bold in you, sir. Oh, man. Okay. Here we go. We're gonna skip down a little bit. How will you know where to start? The question I don't know. I don't. I'm taking a guess. About halfway down the page. The question for those of us who wanna hear him is, what can I do better to hear his voice? Thankfully, god wants us to hear him so he doesn't overcomplicate the process. Following are four simple basic things anyone can do, even Buva, to get in better getting in better tune with god so we hear his voice more often and more clearly. Oh, I hope so. It all starts with, full colon, nurturing and growing our faith. This is bolded and italicized. Believing in God is not requirement for hearing from God. God speaks to atheists, agnostics, heathens, pagans.

If he didn't, no one would ever come to know God. That said, believing in God ups the odds of hearing from God substantially. The more faith we have in God, the more likely we are to hear God when he does speak. A foundation of faith these are all words. I don't understand what we mean. Like, how do I have more faith, and what is a foundation of faith? Also helps us to understand what is directing us to do when he speaks. We grow our faith by becoming rooted in Christ. What does that mean? Like, I I get it. Like, we say these things, but, like Yeah. Spiritual roots okay. They keep, like, providing a definition by using a more spiritual sounding word without any concrete reason. Spiritual roots grow deep through the regular practice of hearing and reading the word of God. Okay. And through regular prayer. Read the word and pray.

Okay. Okay. The more we know the Bible and spend time with God, the better acquainted we become with Him. Once we are personally familiar with God and how He operates, it is much easier to discern what He's saying and what He wants us to do with His message. So I do think it is true that the more you're exposed to God and his word and the more you are praying, the more that your eyes are gonna be open to the things that are going on around you, the things that he's doing. And oftentimes, I know we've talked about this before, I think oftentimes your prayer at times is moving his hand. It is also oftentimes he's doing something anyway but because you were praying on it, you're more prone to being able to see it. Same thing as you're ingesting Scripture

and you're paying attention to it, you're thinking about it, you're pondering it, you're memorizing it, again the words of God start to connect to other things that you see. Similar to oh wait, I told that story before the show. Never mind. But like, you know, you read, you hear a quote or you see something or you hear a story and then two weeks later, something happens, you're like, oh, that was like this because the thing is in your mind. Yeah. And so same thing with reading the the scriptures and through prayer. I think that's totally true. I think that's right. The second one, well, it's a little bit cut short. Okay. It all starts with nurturing growing faith, and the second is wanting to. Ah, so my desire to hear. Yes. Okay. So admittedly, this one is a of a given. However, it's worth stating anyway. God will only speak in an intimate friendly way to those who sincerely want to hear from him.

A friendly way. What? Wow. Why would why do we say some of the stuff we say? I don't understand. Words that don't mean anything. If we want we like we I gotta get rid of that whole sentence, to be honest with you. If we want clear communication with God, we have to keep our hearts open to God. Again, I don't know what that means tangibly, to keep my heart open. It is possible for our heart to close God without our knowledge or awareness because humans are often self deceived. The best way to keep self deception at bay and our hearts open to God is to practice regular self examination and deal with our sin decisively. Okay. You could have stopped the whole paragraph and just gone to this part and go, sometimes you close off hearing from God because of the choices that you make. Right. You you you choose to listen to your own tunes

and you dig on them, and you cannot hear the music the lord is playing because you're so focused on your own stuff. So you need to deal with your sin, get it out into the open, discard it, and then crank the music of the lord. Mimicry Okay. Is effective. Okay. Third, fostering fear of God. In the ESV version of the Bible, Psalm twenty four fourteen says that friendship with God is for those who fear him. He makes his promises or covenant known to them. Other versions say God confides in those who fear him. Still others say the secrets of God are for those who fear him. They all they all means the same thing, full colon. God speaks most clearly and most intimately

to those fear him. Was there no editing in the blog? There's missing words. I can't I'm not catching you fast enough. Fearing God doesn't mean we cower in dread of him. It does mean we believe what he says enough to do what he tells us to do. Fear so obedience, really. Right. Fearing god also means we understand and embrace the otherness of god. Much of today's teaching concerning god makes him out to be a slightly bigger, smarter human. What? I don't I don't know who you listen to. That doesn't sound right at all. Time to turn to channel, friend. This teaching makes God out to be a really nice guy who never gets worked up about anything. I doubt if you're reading the scriptures. Didn't they didn't we ever cover that in section two? Read the scriptures. It's true. God is kind. Kindness is a fundamental is fundamental aspect of his character. However, god is more than just nice. He is also holy, just, and righteous. People who fear god embrace all aspects of god's character, not just the ones that give us good feels.

Do you think so let's think about the implication of that one. If I'm doing the first two, I wanna hear from him. I'm praying, reading my Bible. I'm repenting of sin to clear out my own noise. What does it look like then to fear God in this situation? Because I would say I fear fear, in reverence to, in trust he is who he says he is, I repent of sin, I pray.

I read the scriptures because I want to know more about him and to interact with him in in that way. So is there is there something else tangible related to fearing god outside of, like, what feels like core obedience? I admittedly,

I've never been able to find a difference Because, like, if I'm thinking about, like, the fear that I have for the lord is recognizing that he has the power to exact the consequences of the actions that I take. Mhmm. And because of the fact that I believe in his power to be able to do those things, But more importantly, the fealty I have to him as my king and my lord, I I act in accordance as I can to be in line with what he wants for me and what I would want for myself. But that fear is just what it manifests as is obedience, but I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to explain

any other manifestation of that fear other than obedience and reverence. Yeah. I actually, I think okay. I have to do some I'd have to look into this, but, like, oftentimes, it's we have the same issue with love, with the word love. Right? And so both the Old Testament and New Testament words that get translated love are active words. They're actions. They're not feelings. They're like, you know, I I know I know it's just what John says. Like, I know the people who love me, they do what I they obey my commitments. Right?

It isn't a feeling, which should relieve you of to a certain extent if you're, you know, just driving on the old highway and you're like, I don't feel like I love God today. You're not at any risk. You're not judged fellas, this is especially good news for you. You're not judged by your warm and fuzzies. Mhmm. God's God is is offering a situation of which because you believe who he says he is, you do the things that he asks you to do, you react to him in the way that you do. You get all the benefits of relationship in there too and there are feelings associated with that but like, you don't have to scrutinize and say, I woke up in the morning and I just didn't feel warm and fuzzy towards God and be deceived that you have some sort of relationship problem. And

I do wonder if fear is a similar thing where like, again, if love isn't a feeling in the way the Old New Testament used it, do we use fear again? We conjure up a do I have to try to conjure up some sort of feeling within my body? Am I misunderstanding how we're thinking about fear as well? I think it's in the same vein to be honest with you because if a fear of God is recognizing who he is, walking humbly in his presence because of this, walking in his ways because he said to do that and recognizing the power that he that he brings, well, how does that translate? You do the things he told you to do, like you act in obedience. You stay away from the things he told you not to do. You do the things that you were supposed to do. You do your very best to reflect him into the world as he's called you to go do. I mean, feels a lot like the love part. It's the same reaction. It's just like a different word we're using to describe what is the same tangible result. I don't what do you think, Dan? Does that seem close, right? Yeah. I mean, I don't know how I would say that differently. Okay. I'll have to look. I guess I'll to check the words. Don't wanna over bake like I've studied fear, love I know. Love I'm confident in. These are actions. These aren't lovey dovey's. They're like warm and fuzzies. Yeah. Okay.

And finally, we must obey what we do here. The speediest, most effective way to get god to stop talking is for us to ignore his instruction and choose to do our own thing for our own glory. When we quit obeying, the Bible no longer makes sense, and the still small voice of god goes from still and small to radio silence. Thankfully, all we have to do to get god talking again is go back what is that? This feels like putting a coin in a machine. God talk yeah. I don't like this. Let me go back. Always go quiet. We just quit listening. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Is is to go back again to the same obedience we practiced in the beginning of relationship with god. And they called back to re Revelation two four to five, which I think is a very nebulous reference.

Do go back to do the things you did at first is the reference. Is that Ephesus maybe? But, like, I I don't again, that Yeah. That means everyone that was doing a good thing at one point in time should go back to that. That's what that was supposed be called upon. Yeah. I that's Not a specific letter to a specific church about a situation. Yeah. It says, remember, therefore, from where you have fallen, repent, and do the works you did at first. I'm not sure that's the same I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that I'd lean on that and say, that's the problem. When people are writing things and they put a bible verse in there, it implies that they believe that that's exactly what it's talking about. I thought that verse is nebulous at best related to that. I like many commentators have trouble going. I'm not quite sure what the thing they were doing at first was. The simple act of repentance brings immediate joy, reopens the channels of communication with god, and reestablishes closeness with god. Okay. But that they had, like, two points instead of four, which is okay. Yeah. Probably don't need to nitpick people, but I'm listen. I I enjoy it. It just feels like I come back to, like and I don't even know if this is a biblical, like, reference or if I just heard it and it made sense to me. It's like the the sheep will know the shepherd's voice. Like

Is that from the scriptures? Is that I I'm legitimately asking. I don't know if that's script from scriptures or not. Yes. It is. Right. Yeah. I I I don't have memorization down that well, and I feel like sometimes I remember things that aren't actually in there. Yeah. They're more, you know, secular psalmist. Kinda mimicry. Yeah. Mimicry is is effective. But, like, you wanna hear the shepherd's voice? Like, be a sheep. Like, be in his flock. Like, you will hear him direct you. You will hear him talk to you, and, like, he wants to. Like, he wants a relationship with you. Now sometimes that means he will talk to you through scripture. Like, there's a reason we have 66 books to call upon. They're like ways that he's identified himself to us and ways that he's identified who we are based off of who he is and things like that and how his creation was created and all that good stuff. Sometimes it's a a random thing that you hear from the lord that says, hey. You know, next week, you're gonna meet a dude named Fred, and Fred's gonna be living with you for a while. Great. I was listening. But, like, either way, the sheep will will recognize the voice of the shepherd. Yeah. Agreed.

Okay. I agree. It's effective. Okay. I think that's it for the one of the other articles this woman wrote was, why did you keep using the word heathen? How the average heathen? Nobody says that anymore. Wasn't heathen like a specific group of people that were, like, anti anti, like, theistic thoughts or not theistic, like, monotheistic thoughts in France? Like Gaul. I don't know. Yeah. Or were the heathens Vikings? Or I I feel like that's a group of people, not just like a random term to throw a people.

No. It might be, actually. I don't know. I'd have to look. The Blue Letter Bible. Hold on. Oh, Goyim. Okay. What did you just say? He they the the heathen from the Easton's Bible Dictionary, it's a Hebrew plural, Goyim.

At first, the word Goyim Goyim probably denoted generally all the nations of the world. Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. She might be using it correctly. I I it's fallen out of favor for sure, but she's not totally wrong. The Jews afterwards became a people distinguished in a marked manner from the other Goyim. They were a separate people, and the other nations, the Amorites, Hittites, etcetera, were the Goyim, the heathen, with whom the Jews were forbidden to be associated anyway. The practice of idolatry was the characteristic of these nations. Okay. The corresponding Greek word in the New Testament, ethne, e t h n e. How would you say that, Dan? Say it again? E t h n e.

Are the e's long? Ethne. Ethne? Ne. Okay. Let's say that. Has similar shades of meaning. It denotes the people of the earth generally, and in Matthew six seven, an idolater. In modern uses, the word denotes all nations that are stranger strangers to revealed religion. Oh. Oh, I'm I'm wrong then. I just thought the Heathens were like a group of people, like the Gauls or the Turks or something like that that just eventually got adopted to be anyone who is godless. Yeah. I mean, there are places where, like, if you look at what is it? The International Bible Encyclopedia and Vines, I think both of those refer to Gentiles.

So, like, as a it's an alternative word for Gentiles. Okay. Cool. Good to know. Thanks for looking up. Alright. Alright. Let's give let's give some advice. Dear, live from the path. A while ago, as I was standing in line at the grocery store, a young woman with seven or eight items tied up the checkup process by leaving her groceries on the belt and then running back to grab something she forgot. Oh, yeah. It happens. I get it. Yep. She was buying name brand food items. Oh, this is already going through here. Among them, an $8 jar of spaghetti sauce. She used the last of her food stamp card, paid some cash, and was still short of money to pay for her purchase. Purchase. Since I was next in line, she looked at me and waited.

The cashier and bagger, who appeared to know her, stared at me as well, waiting for me to cover the difference. I often help people when I can, but this was a rare time I couldn't because my only income at the time was a $150 in food assistance. Uh-huh. I suppose I could have helped by showing her the 99¢ sauce that was on sale and the store brand of mac and cheese, etcetera, but I didn't. The hostility from the customer and the food store workers was becoming more overt as the minutes ticked by. The bagger finally pulled out her credit card from her wallet and paid the balance for her. I have since felt torn by this situation and wonder wonder whether I was right or not by refusing to pick up the rest of her tab. No question. Just unsure of themselves.

I mean, yeah, she's not obligated. I would I I think man, I feel really in tune with this person. I I would feel I would I would be thrilled to help someone pay their bill if they weren't buying the super expensive stuff. That does kind of make me pause and say like, Well, you had a budget, you know how much money you had, you know how much you were spending, that's kind of on you. It's not like, I need this to survive.

It's a luxury. Yeah. Yeah. $8 for spaghetti sauce is pretty rough. Yeah. Like, I can't even fathom what brand that would be. I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm just saying. There's there's some yeah. There are some brands out there. This is I find this difficult. Tell me why. It is is difficult for a couple of reasons. I don't the

difficulty I have and I've run into this, I think in multiple different situations is things that feel incidental versus things that are patterned that continue to happen. I, would I understand, I am,

what did I reshoot? I'm not gonna remember the reference, but like there was, there was a discussion around why is it that people in like of lower income brackets still spend their money on cable TV and cigarettes. Part the reaction was, well,

think about how, what a good bargain, the amount of entertainment you get out of cable TV for the price that you're spending. Like it's actually a pretty good deal. Mean, you get into satellites for But hours to get nuts, like, you can't

go out and buy anything, you can't just go for a joy ride in your car. All kinds of things that we probably like, maybe as people we take for granted that cost money. Hey, we're just gonna go get ice cream tonight. And so if you can't do all those things, is this actually a good bargain when it comes to the amount of taking up of your time on how you spend your money? Probably, it probably And

cigarettes, I think one of the pervasive attitudes was, look, my life just kind of sucks anyway. And so if this brings me a little bit of joy, if helps me process, it helps me like deal with anxiety related to the fact that I have no money. And I get it, it feels ironic, a little bit self fulfilling,

but it's more nuanced than blindness. Know what And I'm so what I wanna look out and say, hey, if you are on some sort of food assistance, you gotta eat just the crappiest stuff. No,

that wouldn't be my position. However, you do have to live in your reality just like I have to live in mine And I would be glad to help somebody

if there I think Dan, to your point, like if you can't make your groceries this week or whatever, and frankly, I would love to be in the position to go, hey, if you wanna go pick up a slightly better jar of spaghetti sauce,

I'd love to get that The opposite for would be great. Yeah. Right. You'd love to do that for you. But I wouldn't if someone is perpetually doing Mhmm. Right? Like, if they are if they are continuing to buy cigarettes or alcohol and can they're like, oh, I can't feed my kids. Well, you need to stop buying Bushlight. Like, it has to stop. I'm sorry. Mhmm. Like, I get it. I get all the things that come with it. Maybe it even relaxes you and your troubles. But like, one week, maybe. I might even buy the Bush Light. But like the third week of which it happened, the fourth week, fifth week, like this is actually, I'm not helping you, I'm harming you by you not feeling a bit of the impact of your reality. Like we don't always serve people well by shielding them from the impact of their decisions. There are earthly realities to mismanaging your money. There are earth realities for being a poor husband.

God does not remove all of the earthly pain impact consequences from things that we do. And I'm not sure that God's people are called to do that either. Recognizing that you're also not the thumb. It isn't your job to exacerbate someone's circumstances

to be the extra voice that makes sure that they feel pretty crappy about their situation or whatever. Like you should be gracious. You should probably be more gracious than what it feels like. I think into the point of I'd rather take the risk that this helps somebody for the third time. Like once we're into five, ten, again, I don't know the lines. You're gonna have to pray through that stuff and it's probably different for a situation. There is a point where you're enabling and you're not helping them. And if you're trying to help them and they're refusing, again, they're just gonna have to have the impact of that situation. But I think you should be overgracious. You should not presume that people should live like eating

cardboard just because they're low on money. Like, some of those small joys you take for granted. Yeah. I don't I don't know what's in this $8 spaghetti sauce. It's probably too much. But, like, if you if if the one was 99¢ and they had one for $3 and, like, it makes their week. Yeah. You too I hit Prego instead of Ragu. This is what I'm saying. You're like, I am in I am in a privileged position by work, hard work, and and whatever. Like, I'm not it was nothing was given to as far as I know any of the fellows in this room. Like, if I could if you could afford the $3 bottle, it's because you worked for it, which is great. But I think of it as it's the same, but it may not be the same to all the peoples. So just sit in their shoes for a minute, be gracious with it, but there is a point of enabled it and it's okay to say no if your

graciousness is harming them. But I will say every time I've interacted in ways like this, it has been difficult. I don't always know where to draw the line and this is something that I pray about

because I don't my own worldly, my earthly position to overprescribe how I think someone else should live. So I think, unfortunately, I don't think there's a broad answer except for you need to recognize that it can cross to enablement. Two, you probably should be more gracious than your first reaction. Right.

And three, I every situation is probably unique, and you're gonna have to pray uniquely through every one of them. I think that's the best I could I can do. Yeah. I think that's fair. And I think the the this extenuating extenuating circumstance for this person is the fact that they were also on food assistance. And so, like Yeah. It's it's I think you you need to look at this with a little bit of grace on yourself. Like, yeah. I get why you said the things you said. Yes. I understand why you thought the way you thought. I also understand the thought of feeling a little bit guilty about it after the fact, but I think you can give yourself a little bit of grace, especially since you're also on food assistance trying to figure this thing out. You know? You were not obligated to to buy this person's $8 jar of spaghetti, like or spaghetti sauce. Now here's what's difficult, And this is where I think we do a disservice when we teach some of our bible, some of the the narratives in the scriptures

in isolation. And so think of the widow, the widow's mite. Mhmm. Right? The lady given now she gave it to the temple. We're like, oh, she gave she gave the last of her coins to Jesus. She she didn't like, she wasn't to Jesus at the time. Right. No. She gave it to the temple. Mhmm. The temple was opulent. Like, crazy. The the temple was not dying of needing the money. The temple, you know, had some, like, services and stuff that they provided, but, like, I mean, it still went to the upkeep of the place. Like, it was a nice joint. And so you would think to yourself, like, okay. I'm on food assistance.

Should I have to give I I don't have it to give, but she's a good example of someone who didn't have it to give but gave anyway to something that was like, they need it. This person could need it but like obviously the spaghetti sauce is too is probably too rich for their situation. And so you could easily take that story in isolation and then go, of course you should give it because it's gracious. Yeah. But I think we do a disservice to Jesus' teaching

when we teach one in isolation like that and recognize that Jesus is telling, again, often it's hyperbole. That was a real situation as far as we can tell. And he'll use it as an example, but it does not otherwise apply to all situations. Right. Like, Jesus didn't give us if he didn't provide his details, we shouldn't presume that this should be used in all situations. He's giving you a principle to say that you're probably should be more generous than what you're thinking. It's the same reason that we on the forgiveness stuff that he uses 70 times seven. And

he demonstrates what it looks like say, forgive them father, they don't know what they do because again, we would draw the line much shorter than he would. So he gives you kind of an extreme example even in his own life so that you can recognize that wherever you were gonna draw the line was probably too short. Say that because as I was thinking, I thought, could you find something in the Bible that would try to push you to justify? You totally should even on food assistance. Yeah, you could. And I would pray about it and say, God,

you know I don't have it to give. Should I give it? And if God is saying, or frankly, you just feel led to it and you're like, I'm gonna trust that God's gonna figure this out for me, I think there's a righteousness to that. Yeah. But it is not you don't have to do it as an offering to God to go, See, I put myself in a rough predicament and I enabled this person because I thought you'd be happy with it. He's asking you to use the spirit, to use the helper to help you discern through things like this, and it's perfectly fine to do that. So I suppose it was just a caution because there was a direct biblical example that might say, Hey, you should just do it. Okay.

Alright. Secular says oh gosh. This is a great one. Somehow I doubt the sin of omission is going to this sin of omission is going to consign you to hell. Your guilty conscience is punishment enough. To pay someone's food bill is a kind gesture, but it is not an obligation. You couldn't afford it at the time. Let it go. Yeah. I do wonder if and I was thinking about this again today because this has come up in multiple conversations, and I saw the more revised number that said if you made more than $32,000

a year, you are more wealthy than like the 1% of the, like you're in the top 1% of earners in the world or something like that. It was lower than what I expected. Like both the 1% piece and then the how much you had to make to get there. I think I'd been much more generous than that. And so it reminded me, it got me to think like, well, maybe we are obligated.

Like some of the places which were like, oh, it would infringe upon my life. Well, maybe it should. Yeah. And and again, you're gonna have to pray through all that stuff. Yeah. And it's the same thing as the way that I would speak about the rich young ruler. That's not an advocation that everybody give up their stuff. But I would say that, like, have you have you are you praying, like, openly of the inventory of not only your wealth but how you spend your time, the the job that you have and going, one, god, I would if you need any of this in your service, if I've got a call to give away, I wanna give it away. Yep. And two, if any of this is keeping me from walking in in the the path that you want me to walk, help me to easily give it up, to want to.

Not because you're trying to test to see what kind of faith I have and whether I will move to Guatemala, but if you told me that, hey. Something's I'm working on something in Guatemala and I want you there, My my whole attitude should be like, heck yes. What do I what can I possibly get rid of to make sure this thing happens? Because I want in. So like, that's the I think that's the right way to look at it. But yeah, I think there's just

a broad caution I think in there that we don't Well, guess to the point is that like maybe you do have places where it feels like she would advocate that you have a choice. I might tell you that that it's very possible Jesus has an obligation. Like, you should be doing these types of things. Yeah. Your your line is probably but I in fact, I'm I'm saying this personally. I believe my gut reaction is generosity. My revised logical reaction probably cuts things too short. I And probably should go with my first gut that goes, why why don't you just give it? Why don't you just see and then what what's the worst that could happen? Yeah. And so okay. Okay. Another one? Yeah. Last one.

Dear, lie from the pan. Mhmm. I've been with my husband for thirty years. We have a 26 year old son, Isaac. My son is difficult, but my husband never listened to me when he was young, when we were supposed to be shaping him. Now my husband doesn't like the person Isaac has become. He blames Isaac for every problem in our marriage, which is a bigger problem than Isaac is. My husband is a good provider but a terrible listener and communicator. If I even remotely suggest he does or did anything wrong in our marriage or with our son, he gets defensive, starts a fight, and then he and he then blames me. I'm the loneliest married person alive. I always feel like I am caught in the middle. Please give me some advice.

Wow. Well, let me let me let me start. Please do. We're missing some context. Absolutely. For sure. 100%. Because here's

representation let's ignore your son for the moment. Your representation of your husband says that anytime you try to provide him some sort of critique or suggestion that he may be falling short, he overreacts to it, blames you, starts a fight and then nothing gets better, right? Did that characterize that correctly? Yep. The presumption in that statement is that

what you said was right for one, that it was justified, that it was spoken in such a way that he would hear it as a kindness, as someone who loves and cares about him, who's working around something together. And it also seems to presume that you bear no responsibility in that situation. Right. And because

oftentimes you'll see that people, when they describe another person that way, it's based upon the presumption that person was completely wrong and I don't know why they didn't hear my critique and just changed what they were doing. It's rare that I've been in some sort of conversation trying to help mediate some marriage issue of which it isn't even close to that black and white. Like what they'll say is, I tried to get this to my husband and he just he blew up at me or whatever. And and oftentimes the wife is at least half right. The key thing that she's after was a thing that needed disgust, but how she brought it up insinuated that the guy was a jackwagon. She didn't just say, hey, I wonder if we have an opportunity to interact differently with our son. She's like, he wouldn't be this way if you didn't do this. You are always acting this way. I see it in our kids' life. I see it in our marriage. Like, it's that kind of crap. And so you're like, and then he starts a fight. He didn't start a fight. You started a fight. People are sensitive. And it just in general, no one wants to hear that they're a crappy parent. No one wants to hear that they immediately. Right. Exactly. No. It doesn't mean because it's something you don't wanna fail. Right. Right. It's there's there's an added there's a nature of one no one wants to be critiqued just in general, especially in something that to your bones, you really care about. I I don't wanna hear that I'm not that I'm not being a good good husband. And which it's it's super ironic. Right? Because if my wife may try to communicate to me that I could be doing something better, one, I get real defensive about it because it hurts it hurts to think that I might have done a crappy job. And so in effect, I do run the risk of being double crappy because of my reaction. Right? So you have to be in a healthy space on your on your own. Sounds like he's not a good communicator. No. You should know this about him. Yep. Thirty years in. Yeah. Yes. But, like,

I do think it is always bigger than that. I should find them, but like there's almost always in marriages. There's almost always a place for a we. Some of you guys gonna look at it and go, but I'm lying. He's really the problem. It's not us. I'm like, it's probably us. It's us. It's a we. This is a we problem. This is an Us thing of which you like, each of you individually are participants in this, but, hey, I'm struggling with the way Isaac is behaving. Like,

once you start asking, why don't you stop don't don't accuse. Ask. That's a key communication principle. Do not start with an accusation. Say, how are you feeling with how Isaac is acting? I, like, I feel like I like it it feels like we need to be doing something different, but I'm I'm struggling with what to do. What do you think? The man may self admit. He may go, I'm seeing this, and I wonder if I should be doing something different. You know you know how much easier it is to get a man to change his ways when he offers up the change? It's 10 times easier. Then then all you do is support him and go, I think you might be right in that. How can I help? How can I help you? I know if you're gonna try to make some changes there, do do you know what you wanna do? How can I help you do that kind of thing? Is there anything you think I could do that could support that? You that goes way easier than, boy, I think you really screwed up our son. I think you're doing a crappy job. Even if you didn't use those words, he's gonna hear it that way. And so you're not being dishonest by being kind with your words. You're not being dishonest by not being cutting and to the most direct to the point and landing everything on him even if you think that's the case. And sometimes it is. Sometimes the person in your marriage is like, they're just they are being a total jackwagon. But do you want to be right about them being a jackwagon, or do you want the situation to change? Because if you want the situation to change, you're gonna approach it differently.

I would I would advocate the same thing with your kids, to be honest. Like, I I would start if you're having trouble with your kids listening or whatever, I'd open it up with questions and saying, hey. It seems like we're having a communication issue or something. Start with we's and us's. When you start with you's, you're you're gonna put someone on the defense. And, like, you might be right, but you will not fix your problem. That's not gonna help. And so Ben, it sounds like you're saying that some of the best communicators are just as good as listeners as they are talkers. Oh, double. Yes. Oh, gosh. That's scary. Yeah. Oh, double. Also, what you're saying is is that, like, in failing marriages, it's it's very seldom one perfect person, unfortunately, being married to someone that is so imperfect. There are yeah. Agreed. There's a Crazy how many people probably believe my failing marriage. Gosh. I wish I was with a perfect person like I am. Yeah. People just aren't cartoons. Like, they're just Right. Exactly. Yeah. Agreed. And we build people up in our mind like that. Absolutely. And, I mean, here's the thing. People good there are there are totally there are good people in who who want the best for their marriage who forget that. Yeah. Of They're not trying to be harmful. They see a legitimate problem. They're frustrate especially the longer you're married,

the longer like, you see things, the same pattern of crap over and over again, and you're like, this isn't just something that happened. This man has been like this for years. Right. And and I've been trying to get him to change, and he's not changing. And now you have direct evidence that his malfeasance has come home to roost, and you're upset about it. I understand. You you are in a position of which no one else gets to see the long tenure of this man's inabilities than than your wife. She gets to see all this thing. The question is, hear me. Hear me, ladies. What are you gonna do with his frailties? What are you gonna do with this man's fallibilities? Are are you gonna stamp all over them? Are you gonna make sure he's keenly aware of them? Are you gonna be the person that supports him that knows you generally have a good dude who's trying the best that he can? And are you gonna support him in the places where for whatever reason he's not he's not making much progress? And so we started with the ladies, but I I same thing fellas. Like, no one has access to your wife's fallibilities greater than you. Right. What are you gonna do with them? Yeah. Are you gonna rub them in? You'd be like, you've been like this for years. I've been trying to get you to change this for years in our kids and our marriage and blah blah blah. And maybe that's even true. But like you are unique in your position in this person's life. And like, if there's a, I don't wanna use the overuse the term stand in the gap, but like, you know where your gaps are in your spouse. Are you standing in it or you pointing at it and making sure they're very well aware that it's there? I like, you need to be a trustworthy partner for their gaps. And so I would again, I don't know. The unique circumstances may make me come across and go, you know what? This guy's a real trash pit, But I kinda I kinda doubt it. Or it's like, yes, but.

There's generally a but and an and that goes with that conversation. Yeah. It's just it's a misunderstanding of of how a relationship is successful. Because, like, if if two broken people are always fighting for their own safety, it's never gonna work. Like, it's never gonna work. That's not how that goes. It's two solid people that, like, as we would describe it, have a solid relationship with Jesus and are coming together as as a a a marital union that are trying to live out a life for Christ. Right? But, like, outside of that, which it sounds like this very well might be, you're two people that are broken that are trying to just not be scared and and need safety, and you're probably coming at it from a place where you're broken and hurt. And so, of course, you're gonna convey things incorrectly

in a way that this guy's gonna take that, and that's not, completely absolving him of any problem here. Of course, he's probably a bad communicator. He's probably got a lot of stuff that happened, and he probably didn't have parents that that that emulated communication well. And, like, that's how he grew up. It's probably been fight after fight after fight, and you guys stayed together for Isaac. There's a lot of reasons to where what brought you here. But, like, there's a perspective that says that if you are standing on a solid rock and a foundation that you're not worthless, you are you are worth, good communication, things like that, you are not needing to break someone down to bring yourself up. You can build this marriage back into a place of communication, like Ben said, of of being understanding that the person that you're married to is a human being, and they may have needs that you're not meeting just as much as they you have needs that they're not meeting. There's a coming together of recognizing that, like, we're married, and we want to fight for this. Not fight each other to win, but fight with each other on on the same side to to get to resolution and get to a healthier place. Yeah. I I would say, like, I just wanna make sure that

okay. I want you to hear what I what you just said was correct. But my caution Oh, you're good. Yeah. In some of the the in some of the wording. Sometimes people they're not they're not actually personally broken. They're just pissed. That's yeah. Frustrated. And so I the only reason I say that is, like, I don't want you to hear what Moova just said and go, oh, well, I'm not I'm not particularly broken or whatever. Fair. Like yep. You you the the advice holds whether you just might be mad. You're frustrated. You're irritated with this man. You don't even have to have any long standing personal problems or trauma. You're just mad. Same thing. Yeah. Fair. Same same thing. Everything you said is also true. Yeah. Expanding. You're No. I appreciate that. Dan, what what do you think? It it seems to me that that they have several decades of laziness in their relationship. I don't think they're one of terrible people, like you've said. I think that they just need to work on it and maybe to jumpstart things, they should go to a counselor and just say, Hey, give us some tools here because we're not communicating well and we're blaming each other and we're not working as a team.

I think they just need a little help that way and they can get through this. Yeah, so don't give up, don't give up, but you gotta start putting some effort in because you haven't, haven't. And I think every relationship gets a little lazy at times, and you just gotta get past that. It's been too long. Get up and start running again. Yeah. I do that is one of the strong advocations when it comes to to some counseling is, like, again, if you have this perception that that that someone you need someone to help kinda dig up the dig up the graveyard in your relationship. I don't that's not generally the case, actually. I would say most of the time, you you just forgot how to have civil conversations together because you started with this layer of stuff you've built up over years, and so you're not even going through the formalities of listening to each other well. Throwing daggers at each other the whole time. Right. And so, like, like, there'll be some times what I saw a clip somewhere where, like, some guy was dude was talking about his feelings or something. And he goes, like, I feel like I feel like a ghost. And then the lady goes, and I feel like a robot. And, like, the the they were there's, like, a counselor in the room and she's like, okay. I'm gonna acknowledge the fact that you said you feel to the wife, you feel like a robot. But, like, the man just told you, he feels like no one listens to you. No one acknowledges the things that he says. He he feels like a ghost in the house, and you did not acknowledge him at all. Yeah. Right? You brought it back to you. Is the wife's thing completely legitimate? Of course it is. But she probably doesn't even realize that she has done the exact thing the guy is complaining about

in trying to make sure that her side was heard. And so sometimes you just need two or three rounds with another party in there to figure out where you're cheating, like where you're not going about talking to each other in a good way and you don't even realize it. Again, because you're bypassing formalities, you're bypassing things that you think, well, I haven't made progress in this in fifteen years, I'm not gonna make it today. So you skipped it. You didn't give anybody a chance to change and be different.

And so again, I'm not sure this needs to be some sort of licensed therapist, but like you need someone who loves the both of you to listen to you guys talk and not to tell you what to do, but to help you recognize where you're not talking well. That for me feels like way more of the barrier because once you've realized and probably humble both of you a little bit to figure out where you're not being conscious and how you're talking to each other, then puts you back in a room and lets you talk fairly it out. You gotta figure out your own, it's your relationship. It's not the therapist. So you guys need to figure that out. But you do need to realize you have blindness, I think, oftentimes on how you're you're just cheating on how you're talking to each other. Well, and to emphasize one of the things you said, I think that that an important thing to call out is when it comes to these counseling relationships or having, you know, another couple that may be beyond where you are in your marriage that have have gone through these kind of things before and can speak from experience and things like that. A lot of the times, what what they're not trying to offer you is

a a service that says they're gonna rebuild your house. What they're trying to offer you is recognizing the tools that you need to be able to rebuild your house. And you may be super close to it and not able to back up and go, I don't you know, do we need a hammer here? Do I need a saw here? Whatever you wanna call it. Right? Like, it's it's the identification of what tools need to be in your toolkit and then teaching you how to use those tools. It's not rebuilding your house for you. It's helping you to learn how to do it yourself, and that's a super important thing to be able to have someone that can mediate there. Like Ben said, it doesn't necessarily have to be, like, a licensed counselor or anything like that. Just somebody that cares and that's willing to to do that kind of work, to to help identify things for you. So Yep. Alright. Oh gosh. This is this is gonna be a rough one too. Secular says, at 26, your son is an adult. At this point, you can't change the person he has become. Because your husband now dislikes him, you said Isaac is difficult.

Quit defending him. The marriage you have described is not a healthy one. Your husband is more than a terrible listener and communicator. From your description, he is also a bully. Alright. Okay. I'm it it goes on. It's rough. I might have suggested marriage counseling, but I'm 99% certain he will refuse if you raise the subject. You have a right to be happy. I seriously doubt you will be if you continue living with this man. Woah. Gosh. Consult a marriage and family law attorney and ask what your rights would be in the state of blank were you to separate or divorce so you can make an informed decision about your future. Is evil advice. That is evil advice. Right. Like gosh. That is that is

super irresponsible. Like, you've heard us acknowledge almost every week we don't have enough information. And so we're like, we're going off what we can to advocate actively advocate for separation of a marriage based upon the shallow information you were provided is wrong. Yes. Yeah. That was that was a bad one. Okay. Super bad. Okay. Now here's the thing. Here's where she's probably right. It depends on how you approach this marriage counseling problem. Again, you go, hey. I think we need marriage counseling because you're a jackwagon. Right. Like, okay. Yeah. I want another person in this that's gonna tell you that you're a jerk. And here's I've had I have, like, I have experience with couples who have gone to marriage counselors and, like, broken up with them multiple times because one person the other was like, well, that person wasn't agreeing with me. Like, you're Right. You're in here for the wrong reasons. Yeah. And so, like, whatever Yeah. You're not looking for a sidekick against your spouse. Right. And so, like, again, if you you have to if you want to really it's it's a key thing you gotta ask in any conflict, any situation, any any relationship that you have. What

are you trying to do here? Are you trying to repair things? Are you trying to set things right? Are you more concerned that you are personally heard? Yeah, right. That should come out actually as part of you trying to set some things right, but I just, I cannot overemphasize how important language is. Like, how you approach things. You're, like, when you're accusatory, when you're using like, you're pointing to people and you're saying, you did this, you did this, like, they're not listening to you. You're not trying to repair. You're frustrated. You wanna be heard. I understand that. Course. And that's like I get the personal urge to do that, but like when you're in a relationship, like you're willingly sacrificing some of your personal needs and urges for the good of your particular unit. And part of that is to go, I'm going to accept that whatever problems exist are we problems. Now I get whatever. I get your extremes. Do like the lady's beating you at night, fine. We'll talk about it differently. But like communication issues, they're not meeting my needs. I'm not sure if they still love me. I wish he was more romantic. I wish she didn't nag me all the time. These are communication problems for one and expectation problems for two. And you need to talk through those things, but the problem is that you're mostly not effective doing that because you started with, let's start the conversation. You're not beating my knees. I'm not beating your knees because you're a nag. Okay, we're not trying for the Us part. I say this though, none of this is easy. It's very difficult. That's the hard part of sacrificing in a relationship to say, I'm willing to give up whatever it is that I think my ground is and the words that really I think bring it to a crisp, like this would be the exact thing to say. And then I want you to think of it and then I want you to give it up. And I want you to go, this is not gonna help me get to the what I want. Right. The end result that I want, this doesn't drive to that. It makes me feel good. It makes me feel seen, heard, known,

but it does not repair my relationship. It does not show this person that I love them. And so you gotta be willing to give that up, and it's it's difficult. It's harder the more the longer you're married, the harder it is because the more right you are probably with the biting critique you have. But you but you gotta give it up. It's it's it's why it's all the more worth fighting for. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Thank you so much for hanging out with us on this balmy whatever evening it is. I don't know when you're gonna listen to the show, so we're just gonna act like it's balmy out. It's not. If you got any feedback for us, hit up the live from the path, Bob Eisenhower complaint line. I saw old Bobby Eisenhower getting in his car over at his office, today. And That's a lot creepier than you think it is. I was dressed driving by, in the passenger side with binoculars. You I saw it. You did not give that context at the beginning there. I saw it. (515) 517-0085.

You can call or text. We'd love to hear any feedback on the show, any questions you have, if you've got a fantastic riddle. And, we're still looking for, interactions with celebrities that beat William Shatner on a bicycle. Yeah. By proxy through Dan's brother Yes. Which is currently beating lunch with a rude Andrew Zimmerman.

Yeah. Okay. Alright. Anyway, we look look forward to hear from you. Thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll hopefully be back with you here in the next, I don't know, week or two. In the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.