Robert, you are Live From The Past. Alright. Alright. Path.org. Cash.

Also live streaming on YouTube. Everyone's gotta be a funny man. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far this evening. I you you're two seconds in, and you've made it. Congratulations, friend. I'm impressed. Here's what we got going on the program this evening. First so we we we talking just before the show started, and we we decided we needed to turn the cameras on so that we could get to talk about it with y'all. Is is the the difference or the maybe the mind shift between

thinking about in your service to God, doing things for him versus doing things with him. And, Mike, you were you were saying that this this is a recent feels like a a recent shift that you actually got your hands around. Yeah. I I I don't feel like through a good chunk of my life minus six months ago or a year ago, I don't know, something like that, where, like, I never would have thought it in the mindset of, like, I'm joining God in doing a thing. Yeah. It more felt like my approach was

God is asking me to do something, and I need be faithful in going to do it. But it's not that he was hands off. It was just more that, like, he's he's asking me to take on the work, the responsibility, like, the stretch of it. You know what I'm saying? Like Yep. Like, on my own. And I I actually don't know that that his his been not even biblically his character. Right? Like, almost everything he's asked somebody to do is never like, I picked this guy because he's super buff, then he's gonna responsible thing, and they basically report back to me. Right? And maybe some of that I don't know. We should talk about that and where I think that that comes from. But some of it, for some reason, I think comes out of the meeting in Job where God's, like, handing out assignments to angels or whatever. You know? And it feels like, our you know, we're, we're one of those guys, you know, where you're like, hey. Go go do this thing. Report back to me. Tell me how it went or whatever. Like, he doesn't know how do I mean, there were guys of specialty that built the temple. So, like, there seems to be a

mix of it. Yeah. But but, like, it's god says, I equip these guys to do that. I don't well, okay. Let's talk about it. We'll come back to it. Whistle, I wanna talk just a little bit. Did you guys read that article about the the Oklahoma is it the governor or whatever that was trying to get people to pray, do the prayer in the schools? No. Okay. We're gonna talk about that. I usually don't like to chase stuff like that, but I it was just super interesting, so we're gonna talk about that. Buva has then asked the pastor, Buva, what you got? I'm interested of you pastors to know how it is that you determine what you're gonna teach. Okay. Like, you're you're responsible for for teaching the word. Right? Like, acts acts two gives us a good idea of, like, the the the, like, the things that are happening in the church, one of which is the teaching the apostles. Right? Like, if all if all things are good and, like, if all all the scripture is is inspired by god and and, like, breathed out. Right? Like, why

do you choose to go through the story of Gideon versus you going through, you know, the Exodus story that's a good it's a good home runner because there's some good stuff in there. Like, why do you talk through tithing in Malachi when you do? And, like, what about, hey. I really felt called to go through Amos. I'm just really interested as to to hear what you guys like, what's the practicality of Oh, and where do you think that that's possible for pastors to get that wrong? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Also, I'm gonna start selling, like, a five pack of fleeces on Amazon and see how many pastors buy it. Yes. Don't know what to do? Confused?

Missing the lord's word in your life? Buy these fleeces. Just add water. Come on down to Gideon's fleeces. Just add water. It's like a chia pet for fleeces. Oh, that's awful, Dan. Just add water. Now you can get the upgraded version self drying. It'd be awesome if somebody's cat peed on that fleece or something. The dude's like, man, it's hey, man. Wait a minute. Did you guys the magic shop selling the self drying fleece. Oh, I don't remember where I saw this. Did anybody see the article about the guy there's a church somewhere where the guy's selling land in heaven? Oh, no. He he he he claims it, like, a number of years ago Catholic church a few 100 ago. I was gonna say back in, like, the seventh century.

Yeah. It said that it said that god told him it said god that told him that it was okay for him to sell land in heaven. And so this guy's, like, I don't know, a couple grand or something. And he's this church has pulled in, like, 2 or $3,000,000 Disgusting. Selling land in heaven. Do they have a deed and everything? Yeah. Yeah. Kinda like if you buy the stars. Yeah. It's like that kind Yeah. Yeah. It's just can you imagine I mean, this sounds horrible because this is not his character at all. But Jesus just cutting it up, laughing at you, and he's like, here. Got this. He's like, what is that? It's the deed to my house, Jesus. Isn't it? What do you mean? He's running around pulling up park property stakes. Not here. Not here. He's like, man, we've never really instituted that levels of heaven thing, but you're you're going in the basement.

I don't want you around with the common people. I was swept up to the third heaven. Yeah. You're a second heaven looking fella. Yeah. You're down there with the buffaloes. Does he know it's a new Jerusalem? No. It's all wiped out. Alright. Okay. So let's let's talk about what is it what is the distinction between

serving doing things for God versus doing things with God. And, like, first, may maybe, Mike, speak to, like, what do you think the difference is and why is it important?

Boy, this boils down to everything I ever say, but it comes down to an arrogance. You know what I'm saying? Like, it it comes down to, like, I'm I'm It's a real dichotomy of of a sentence. This boils down to everything. No. It's I say this because I I come to the same conclusion every time, and it doesn't matter what topic we're talking about. I'm like, it's because of arrogance. But but I think, like, especially

as you're growing in your faith, you're like, you read through the bible and you see these heroes of the faith or or, you know, people that get big stories. Even read through, like, the book of the martyrs or something. You know? And, like, these people who are just standing up for Christianity, they're being obedient to the things, they're sacrificing their, you know, comfort and financial stability and, like, all this stuff to serve God. And you're like, yes. That's all sounds like good stuff, but it's not the innate thing that that I want to do. Right? What I want to do is provide comfort and stability for myself, and it wouldn't hurt if people recognize me as a good person while we're at it. You know? And so I I think as

as you grow up through it, you're basically like, okay. God's gonna ask me to do these things, and the obedience is solely on me to do them and then to succeed at it. And and I will basically this is not what people would say out loud. Right? But you're like, I will show god that he has chosen well in picking me. Yep. You know, in allowing me to do this or I was the right guy. And based on my skill set that I had no choices. Sure. You know? Or, like, a talent that I've had since I was a kid that I I I've just naturally had that god gave me, and I have put, you know, x amount of work in. And so now I've made it in a way worship worship leaders are great for this. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was born with a talent in a way, and you're like, you maybe you practice your guitar, maybe you sing or whatever, but, like, you're like, I I'm good at this, and so God has tasked me with this. And and I will continue to hold up my end of the bargain because God is good. You know? And and so, like, it it seems like it's a fairly easy mindset to get into is, like, God will ask you to be a part of a thing or or or do a thing or even vocationally be part of this or be a missionary and all these things. And you're like, yes. I am well tuned for this, and I will I will make you proud, Jesus, for for the choice that you've made. But, like, at the end of the day, biblically, that doesn't even ring true. Like, even all the all the the major characters in the Bible that we would hold up as as mighty men of faith, like, God did all of the work. Right? Like, they joined him for sure

in the thing that he was doing, but, like, it's not like Moses turns a staff to a snake on his own or did anything with the river. You know what saying? He's got no no talent in this way. You know? I mean, David's a pretty mighty dude when it comes to fighting, but I don't know that he's single handedly taken out a thousand people without the lord with him. You know? And and, like, all these all these these stories that, like, we were always trying to attain to,

I I don't know. Like, it's it's almost a it's it's way more self involved than I realized that that it was. You know? That I was looking at it in a way that thought, if I can do these good things to god, that will be a reciprocal relationship between him and I, showing him how much that I that I love him and that I, you know, appreciate all the things that he's done in my life. Therefore, I will succeed with this thing. And, like, god is not asking you for that. He's asking you to be in relationship with him and join him in the thing that he's doing, and he actually still does all the hard stuff. You just get to be the person that sees it. Yeah. So I think one of the things that it then reorients is is whether you realize it or not, if it feels like god has things that I'm supposed to go do, I go do them, and then I come back and say, hey, god. See, I did it. Turns your relationship with to god as very transactional. Like, he is happy with me when I am good. And and, like, you would know this. Like, if if you took the Christian test, you would say, well, of course not. It is not dependent upon like, God is still good. He still loves me regardless of my shortcomings. That's why Jesus dies on the cross.

But your day to day life still reflects a reaction to God that goes, if I do good things, and I show him God will be happy with me. If I don't accomplish the things that I'm supposed to, if I don't, if I don't, how many disciples did I make? And did I not say that word I'm not supposed to say today? And like, whatever all the other things are, it I think it it even though you shouldn't say the word and you should make disciples, you actually start to misunderstand God's character, which I think is the real crime in that. Because then but when you when you reorient it and say, look, God is doing all kinds of things. He is with me in them. He's not like he stays at home. I go do. But, like, through me, which is the presence of the holy spirit in your life,

we are going out and doing the thing of which God is directing, and I am, like, using my earthly substance to go do. One, doesn't require your own steam or skills that you may or may not have. God will have to provide. And and so it really doesn't matter where he takes you or the situation he gets you into. I always think about think about an acts where they're like, hey. Don't worry what you're gonna say. Well, this you know, like, you you'll we'll give you something to say. You'll know what to say. And they're like, how can I possibly

know what to say? Well, like, well, God's there, so he'll have to he'll take care of it. And so it's just such a it's weird because you think of all the situations that, like, the early church folks are getting involved in, especially Paul, and he wants to go into Ephesus, the crowds are yelling, he's like, I don't yeah. Send me in. Like, do you need to prepare? You wanna think about it? Nah. Nah. I think, like, if God's sending me in, then he'll have to provide to that. And so I think it reorients our understanding of what it means to be a faithful follower of Jesus in that way you're actually following him on a day to day basis. You you're not having to create your own kingdom and impress God with it. You are simply the the means of which God impresses you. Like, you and gets to end the world around so that they understand who he is and what he cares about through your fallible,

you know, frail set of bones. And and I think that that allows you to see God and his character better

and less adversarial, less like, you know, do you like me today, Lord? Like, that kind of they're just not healthy. And it's I think where we get a risk is that we we we might try to get we sometimes get this right from a, like, a salvation perspective, and we forget that we have to live the day to day following Jesus, and it does actually kind of matter how you think about those things. Otherwise, you've kind have like a crampy ineffective existence

and you misunderstand, and you're missing out on the real relationship with the father because you've you've actually turned it into a transaction that was intended to be in obedience. It all it also changes the way that you measure success. Right? Because if you were if you thought that, like, he had called you to be a pastor and he sent you to a church of 40 people

And the like, the you know god sent you there. Like, you heard his voice. You said, okay. I will be obedient to this thing. I'll go with you. Right? Yep. And and two years down the road, you're down to 10. And you're like, I'm failing at this. I'm not doing the thing that god called me to. Mhmm. If it's on your own steam, you will go, it's time to move on. I'm not the right person for this. This is not going well. Right? But if you joined god in the thing that he asked you to do, god's like, I knew we'd be down to 10. I'm I'm I'm burning by fire. I have refining to do here. Like, this church, I will call people to where you're going to be. You're not moving. Right? The last thing that god told you to do was to go to that church and be a pastor, and you will stay there until god tells you it's time for you to leave there being a pastor. Mhmm. Because if you base it on your own success, you will start to measure things that god is not asking you to measure. I don't I don't I'm not we're not gonna talk about offering things. We're not gonna talk about people things because god told you you're gonna go there and pastor, And then when I want you to move, I told you to go. This is how this works. And when it's time for you to leave, you and I are gonna go to do this other thing together. You're gonna join me in this other thing. But if I was completely up to you, like, you'd bail out the first sign of trouble all the time because you just assume you're the weak point. You're the person that's failing in the And that feels humble to do. Like, it feels it doesn't feel like an arrogance. It feels like you're like, oh, I must be not fulfilling what god wanted me to do. Maybe I need to get out of this thing because I'm serving Yahweh well. Except for it's an arrogance in a way that you misunderstand what you bring to the equation. Yes. Agreed. You know what I'm saying? Agreed. I just but it looks like it looks like a good thing. Yes. That's the kind reaction. Like, especially by a worldly sense of humility, you're like, look at yeah. That guy's he's, you know, like, he's sacrificing his own whatever because he just wants what's best for the church. And god said what's best for the church was for you to go there and be obedient to the thing he asked you to do. Yeah.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna take a slightly different angle on this. Okay. I'm I'm gonna blame preaching, lazy preaching that has we have grown up in lazing preaching, and then here's why I say that. A a good a good sermon requires three things. There's the exegesis, which is the the who, but, when, where, why, the pulling out the the text, the contextual

context, the historic, you know, all the stuff. Answering what what does the bible say here. Yep. The second part of that is an illustration. What okay. Here's here's what here's what the bible says. Then then there's the the illustration that helps people catch it. Like, okay. Okay. Now I get it now that I got this picture of of what, you know, the illustration was. But the third part is an application, and that's where preachers get lazy because they spent so much energy on on studying and figuring out the Greek and on the whatever, all the stuff on the exegesis, on on the explaining explaining of the text and the the the the trying to find that right illustration that that that that's gotta stick and make sense. And then they just kinda mail in the application of what does that mean to me. So they boil it down to what are you gonna go do? What are you gonna do for God? And and then, you know, you need to do this, you need to do that, and you need and then we all leave thinking I need to go do something as opposed to, really, if you looked at the text, all the explaining you just did just said be ready when God calls you, and we kinda missed that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? I think that's a great point. And it it is

I actually, this this happened to me this week. I I I've been teaching through first Samuel, and

there's not a lot of, like, hey. You should go do a thing. And and, like, it's it's pretty normal for for for me not to have something like that, but but it just naturally comes up in the text. Yeah. You know? And so they come up. But, like, this string of first Samuel up through I think up through chapter seven, maybe yeah. Chapter seven. They're about to ask for a king. But, like, I I I told the I told the folks at the church that, like, I I am feeling expressly unpastoral

over the last two to two and a half months or so going through here. Like, we're talking we're working to understand what does the text really mean? There's probably things here you missed because these felt like stories you heard when you were kids or something like that. And so we've been doing a lot of that and a couple things came out. And I said, it's probably just a frailty in my mind because as a pastor, you're like, if they just sat and we know a thing, are we are we not doing the right thing because there's not a go do? Like, because there's a risk in the church that we're like, oh, yeah, I got a lot of good information there and do nothing. Like, that's a legitimate risk. Right. Right. But because it had happened so many weeks in a row of which I didn't have something explicit,

I it was like a moment of, hey, I don't know if I'm just missing this, so you guys need to pray for me on that particular thing. Or, like, realistically, these are things where we're just like, do we recognize the patterns of how people find themselves misunderstanding Yahweh

and taking him for granted or not believing his sovereignty and his ability to, you know, solve one situation or another, which is a perfectly fine takeaway. Like, it's perfectly fine, but you're you're right. Just just as even the even the most genuine

dude can can say, hey, the numbers haven't moved for six months here. Are we sure I'm not doing something wrong? I I I actually was having just a I was having a moment of which, I don't know, guys. Why don't you pray for that just to make sure I'm not missing something because this is my comfort area? Because there there haven't been a lot of, okay. Now go do. What do you do? Yeah. Yeah. You you teach on David and Goliath, so then you have a whole church full of people running out looking for Goliaths that week.

And and maybe the whole lesson was, hey. Dad told you to go feed the brothers, so you will be obedient Yes. And be ready and keep your eyes open for where where where god needs you rather than go looking for giants to kill. You know? Like, because most of us aren't gonna slay those giants. And what are the giants in your life that you do? Exactly. It's like Exactly. That's like lazy preaching. That's what I'm saying. We're just like it's it's just handed over to your addiction may be Goliath, and the way that you use the f word is also a Goliath in your life. Take that rock and slay it. It's like, and I really understand that Facebook is my Goliath. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think it is very helpful to to that. It changes the expectations.

It means that you focus your energy going, listening for god, walking in obedience to things that are already clear. Like, again, if you're waiting for the holy spirit to speak, like, you're holding a book of which he has spoken. So let's let's not and and and the the there's nothing it's not more holy to hear the wispy word of the holy spirit than it is to read the codified word of the holy spirit. And so you got stuff you can go do. That's faithful and awesome. But it does mean that if you're then not having to go, like, gin up, like, faithful opportunities,

you better be listening. And so the the time of which you go, father, like, give give us give it a chance. Like, pray openly and with your like, to Dan's point, you're walking out in the world going, I'm in for anything. You got everything's on the table. I'm open to whatever god has going on, and I'm willing to join it. I'm willing for my day to be disrupted and my pocketbook to be disrupted. Recognizing, and this is the other thing we were talking about just before the show started, is that, like, vast majority of times, like,

your your ministering is and your disciple making is with your friend and your neighbor and your family. Yeah. And so, like, you're probably not gonna get tapped and called up to the bigs. Are you humble enough to say, yeah. I'll go ahead and take lunch to the brothers? Yes. You know? That's right. Like, I'm I'm above that. Don't you know? I'm a I'm a hero. I'm I'm a champion of god. You know? It's like, no. I'm just gonna go feed my brother's a giant. Oh, look. My god. I mean yes. That's right. The that's a great it's a great example because the giant happened to be there. Yeah. He wasn't looking for a giant. David went because his dad told him to go take his brother's lunch. For a giant. Yeah. He was he was bringing lunch and then heard someone blaspheming his his god. Yeah. By the way, you can't do that to my god. Right. It's like and looked around and saw an army shaking. Yeah. Come on, guys. What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Are the army of of god, Yahweh. Yeah. What are you doing? Alright. Give me some stones. And and and actually, that brings to another, I think, very similar point or less an implication,

which is, like, you're not on the hook to be the star for Jesus. No. Mhmm. Like, it just and think of all the guys who were shaken to your point, Bhuva, like, many people were shaking in their boots and who did God send? Well, it was not all of those guys. It was a different dude. And, like, it totally could be you. Sometime, like, maybe it could be you. But generally speaking, you're not on the hook for having to go, how can I be a great man of faith who makes the books? You are on the hook for being a great man of obedience who listens and follows Jesus when he walks, and the only book it may make it in is your name is in the death part of someone's bible. But then is there anything to say that there was disobedience in every one of the dudes that was shaking because they didn't have faith in Yahweh, and if they would have, they might have been the one that God used to slay Goliath? It's an

interesting question because you could ask that for every, like, price. Right. Yes. It feels like a real hinge I know. I say that question knowing that the implications of that are limitless. Right? Like Yeah. Like how many situations are we well, the only reason it was David was because he was the one who was obedient. Right? Like and I don't I don't believe that to be true particularly. Like, I don't I don't think that God was like, alright. I'm going to bless the line of whichever dude is the one who stands up for me. Like, that doesn't feel right. I feel like God is a little bit more intentional about, like, I'm going to create a messianic line from this dude that I'm doing. Right? But, like, what was going on with the dudes that were shaking? Like, they knew Yahweh too. Like, they had they had seen him their whole life. There was an obedience to, like, they were up against a military that was that was blaspheming their god. Yeah. And so why why didn't they? Yeah. It's interesting

is is that, like, there's a couple conclusions you could take. You could go, does god allow them Right. For one? Like, maybe maybe some of those guys would have gladly done it. He hardens hearts. He emboldens people. He does that kind of stuff. Like, he's the god that can absolutely make, I hate to say, make chess pieces do the things that he wants them to. Yep. We just get a picture of that sometimes where, like, hearts are hardened, ears are closed, eyes are shut, and stuff like that. Like, he makes people see things. Yep. It could be. Or the alternative could also be is that, like, everybody else's reaction is, like, I don't know, pretty normal. Just Right. Yes. Like, just just like you see Giant dude over there. Have you seen a spear? Like, vast majority of Israelite reaction. Like, it tends to be the fickle crowd and then one or two dudes who are, like, you know, holding back the winds. And so

humanity is fickle and sometimes normal in that. And so does god is is the special part is kind of the boldness of David and less about the scaredness of everybody else? Can you imagine the dude like that got on board with some of these plans? He's like, alright. God whittled down our army to 300 dudes. I want you guys to hold these pots. Right? And then Throw them at the ground. Just gonna break the pots and give a trumpet. Gonna put these you'll beat these horns out. And you're like, there's a 100,000 dudes over there. Just yeah. Just go ahead. Just trust me. And, like, there has to be at least a 150 of these guys are like, I'm gonna die here. Like, there's no reason this should work at all. And then, like, you're ten minutes in, you're like, they're literally fighting each other. I got hey.

This is great. And then you get in there with a sword and start tearing it up. You know? And, like, I'm not so sure that, like, there's not room in god's kingdom for these dudes too that are like, look. This is a whack plan, but I'm totally in, I guess, and we'll smash the pots like you say and hit the horns. First of all, I don't know why they have 300 horns just sitting around. No one said, like, hey. By the way, we're gonna eat 300 horns. You should bring with you. It just acts like everybody has a horn on them and be like, hey. Get the horn out. Look at all this box of horns. Yeah. I I can't I can't believe it. We prayed for horns. Property of Moab? Can we take these? God said he needed horns. It's fine. We're taking them. Made in China. Yeah. Made in Moab. Luckily, when we created the church building, somebody had these laying around at their house, and they brought it by in case we needed them. Had the foresight to arm us with horns. But but that's the thing. Right? It's like the the the Gideon takes the we've elevated Gideon. Right? Mhmm. Now god used Gideon in the same way he used the scared dude three ranks in. They're like, look. I need you to be obedient with this pot smashing. And you're like, I don't know, god. This pot smashing don't feel like it's gonna do about it, but I guess we'll hit the horn. My toe. Well, I can Oh, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So, anyway, I I think that's it is a helpful reorientation

of how you think about what it looks like to serve Yahweh is that he's not the CEO that you have to impress so that you get to keep your job slash salvation slash blessing and peace. Right. He is miraculous and this is the miraculous thing about following God is he has provided his spirit who has a personal existence into your life. And so everywhere of like, has the ability to say, God is with me. I am joining God in the things that he is doing.

My biggest risk is not like drumming up business for the kingdom. My biggest risk is like god doing things, and I have allowed things to block me from hearing and participating, like the presence of a persistent sin in my life, busyness, worship of money, time, sports activities. With idols. Right? You'll Yeah. Pick it. You'll notice your idols really fast. Right? When you're like, look Oh, absolutely. If you decide, like, the day that you decide, like, my fellowship with god, my relationship with god is gonna take priority over everything, you will you will quickly notice the idols that you allowed to distract you from from that particular thing. Yep. Right? And so I and I think the other thing was, like, I was thinking about it when you were talking, and it's probably escaping me now. But, like

yep. I don't remember. Man. Fantastic. I It was solid. Appreciate that you went in headlong into that. It's gonna go gonna be the best I've heard where this story is gonna end up at, and it's okay that we end up going nowhere. Not if I rambled long enough, it would come here. No. My wife does that all the time. She'll start a sentence knowing that she doesn't know where it's gonna end. Sometimes she's just fine with not ending it. Like, she'll be like, do you sometimes have where this Nope. So anyway Nope. It's gone. Okay. Alright. I don't know what the thing was. Okay. Like, the the phrase I love you, baby. The phrase that should that should probably leave our vocabulary is like, and god showed up. Like, the right phrase is, and god let me see it. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's because what you're saying is god was not there until you noticed it, and then he showed up in the moment, like, you were praying for, that you were hoping for, all those things. Right? My great faith ushered him in. Yeah. Exactly. Right? No. Was here. Oh, I know there's some psalms where the lord comes rushing in. But but here's the thing. It's like He was a dragon coming out from heaven. Just saying. He was always there. Yeah. Right? Like and he gave you the gift of allowing you to see him move in a way. Right. And that is what like like, you can go through your life and and remember those times. Like, always act like you like like you're there was this great moment of faith, and really, all it was, every time,

was God allowing you to see the thing that he was doing. Yeah. And then, like, it deepened your relationship to a to a point where you can't come you don't come back out of that. Right? Like, as your relationship gets deeper and deeper, you you don't lose that. And so, like like, all these things that we're talking about are just god's invitations to be in deeper relationship with you, to do the things his character was going to do anyway and wants you to come alongside him and join him in the thing because that creates a faith in a way that, like, you start to count on him showing up, and you start to live your life in a way like, what's the the classic phrases? Like, does your look does your life look any different if the holy spirit didn't exist? Right? Like, are are you living your life in a way that if the holy spirit does not we used to say to show up, then you're screwed. Right? Like, is that the is that your posture? That you're saying all these things are in his hands, and I'm literally counting on him to be the god that he says he is. Yeah. And, like, that feels very, very risky. But the more experiences that you have with him, right, and the deeper that relationship goes, it seems less and less risky. It seems riskier to not do that with him. Right? Because you're like, I would be missing out on all these things. Yep. Hey. You're listening to live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far this evening. If you got any feedback for us on the show, maybe you love that segment, or maybe you thought we really missed the boat. Go ahead and give us a call or a text on the live from the path. Bob Eisenhower complaint line, (515) 517-0085.

Again, call or text. We'd love to be able to hear from you. And, obviously, we we we presume you're going to complain. That's why we named the line that. So feel free to to hit us up on that. So the the the story the story, it just I just I just Oklahoma governor or Arkansas governor or whatever. Oklahoma's education superintendent

has sent an email to public school superintendents requiring them to show students his video announcement of a new department of religious freedom and patriotism within the state department of education. Ryan Walters, Republican, announced the new office on Wednesday, and on Thursday sent the email to school superintendents statewide.

In one of the first steps of the newly created department, we're requiring all of Oklahoma schools to play the attached video to all kids that are enrolled. That should have been a who. That's embarrassing. Never mind. Public education.

That's their who's. They're their who's. Districts are also told to send the video to all parents of students. In this video, Walter says religious liberty has been attacked and patriotism mocked by woke teachers' unions, then prays for the leaders of The United States after saying students do not have to join in the prayer. In particular, I pray for president Donald Trump and his team as they continue to bring about change in the country, Walter said. In announcing the department, Walter said it would oversee investigation of abuses to individual religious freedoms or displays of patriotism.

And so the the the question like, the the pushback was I mean, whatever. The guy's allowed to do what he wants to do. Like, he can vote for who he wants to. He can, like, say, hey. We're gonna go after the these things within the school system. That's fine. What has, I think, caused the riled up is the prayer. Is a man praying and then going, everybody has to has to watch the video. You have to you don't have to pray yourself, but you have to watch. Yeah. But everybody has to watch. And so there's been a bit of a kerfuffle about that.

And it was it was interesting seeing a number of different reactions to to that type of thing. Because, like, one of the considerations, again, free country, if the guy was of a different faith and was praying, would I appreciate if my kids had to

I mean, I would've no one's harmed by listening things. Like, I guess I'm not that super sensitive about it, but I would be probably a little bit cautious Sure. Of its presence. And the question is, is it, like, how how necessary was it? Like, of the thing that you're trying to accomplish within your school district, I don't really care what to go after what he wants to go after. But the presence of a prayer, as much as I feel like, would believe that prayer is important and powerful,

this feels not this feels like a like a fire. Like, he's just trying to start a fire more so than we're trying to actually, I don't know, positively move something. I don't know. Was one of the interesting parts is that like, were some people who I'm friends with that I saw who were commenting on this. They were they're English, like English teachers and stuff. And I expected them to have a significantly negative reaction to it. And they were more like,

hey, we actually think like a like a I don't think they're believers really, but like, we teach we teach there's some things in the Bible that we teach. Like, we bring them in. Sure. Yeah. Some for, like, story structure. It's important to understand. Frankly, a lot of literature has its its basis in some of these things, and so it's actually kind of important to understand contextually where the things are coming from. It's like, we don't have any problems at all Yeah. Pulling in these things and teaching them in school. There's still real books that were written. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they they have to be dealt with from a historical perspective. They have to be dealt with from a literature perspective. But they're like, ah, the prayer thing, like, again, it just depends on this is a faith. There could be other people that we otherwise might not appreciate. And so I think they really struggle with that bit. I don't know. Like, you have any any initial reaction to that?

Dan's thinking about it, something fierce. I'm thinking thinking hard. I'm thinking hard. I mean, I'm not, like like, super opposed to it, but I'm also, like, thinking that I don't know that it moves

the needle in any way. You you know? It's kinda like, okay. I I guess I'm stuck back in in Daniel too. It's like, yeah, those guys saw all kinds of pagan gods being prayed to and worshiped. And Then change their status quo at all. Yeah. They're like, nope. Nope. We're not gonna bow. Then Nebuchadnezzar's like, oh, wait. Yours is the great god. You know? It's like, I mean, as long as they're being taught at home, they're they're they're fake. But I know most people aren't. So Yep.

Man, I'm I really don't know how to respond to this intelligently. Historically, do you feel like Christianity or Yahweh's people have ever done well in power? Well, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're just so used to be like like, every story you ray read in the New Testament, they're under an opposing Roman government to some extent. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're never the ruling class where they're handing down, you know, edicts from above.

Except now maybe David back in the day. You know what I'm saying? There's some old testament where that That's it. Even they couldn't, though. They they were the Jewish nation of god, the people of god, and even with the law as their guide, and they messed everything up. Right. You know, because the egos and everything got fall and sin and I I just don't know that, like, if you I don't wanna accuse the man of not praying on this move before he did it. But, like, I it just it it seems to this sounds like a human idea. Do know what I'm saying? Okay. I'm gonna give you two I'm gonna give you contextual item to see if it changes anything about, like, what you think about this situation. Walters, this is the man, already faces two lawsuits over his June mandate that schools incorporate the Bible into lesson plans for students in grades five through 12. Several school districts have previously stated they will disregard the mandate. One of the lawsuits also notes, this is the part you're gonna like, Mike, that the initial request for proposal released by the state department of education to purchase the bibles appears to have been tailored to match bibles endorsed by now president-elect Donald Trump that sell for $59.99

each. The Associated Repress reported in October God's people need power. Oh, here we go. Free app. A statement from the education department said that 500, god bless The USA, Bibles were ordered Thursday for about $25,000 and will arrive in the coming weeks. Them Gideons will give it to you for free. Right?

Yeah. So here's the thing. I don't There's other things at play here. Yeah. Like, it's just a Humans are messy. It's a well, it's a weird thing. Like They really are. So people, like, really left side folks are already bringing in bible. I don't, like, I don't expect them to teach as if it's the the true word of god. I don't it's it's a public school. Like, it's just kind of the deal. Like, you live in a free country. What do you want the public school to be? I just and to Dan's point, like, if you think about the kinds of things that, like, people of Yahweh have been subjected to, they they can make their way through even in the presence of like bad stuff. And like, maybe my core reaction is to Christians because there were some people who were getting real hyped up about this. They're like, oh yeah, I love what he's doing here. I'm like, would you react the same if it was an imam or something or some sort of, like, if they were trying to teach the Quran? And, like, if you could honestly say to yourself that, like, yeah. I get it, and, it'll be fine, and I'll handle it at home,

then fine. But you're not gonna do that. You are acting super privileged, which to Mike's point and frankly, this has been a theological problem in the back of my mind for about a decade. Is that like, how could it be that Christianity

cannot function very well in the presence of power if God says if God's belief is, or at least direction I get from say James and stuff is that like, hey, I want all people to come to know me. Yeah. And what it means theologically is is, like, the key way of which Christianity, like, moves and spreads can't be through the government. No. Like, it's it's not our most persuasive, like, way of making disciples is having a seat of power in any type of political structure. Yeah. Worst thing that happened to the church was Constantine. Yes. Right. Right. Jesus.

We were going great. Yeah. Right. And, like, Jesus just doesn't represent, like, a kingdom that comes out like frigging, like, swords and and and slamming through like we're going to take back the nation state of Israel that was the the well, sorry. From the perspective of, like, this is the people of Yahweh. God conquered armies and and brought people under for a time. In the Old Testament, that was how the nation of Israel grew and was able to get more power and things like that, right? But like, that just is not, that's

what they were expecting of a Messiah, of the Christ, right? And it just is not what came to pass. It was very obviously almost the exact opposite of, like, the way that God was like, this is how I'm going to get my name out to the rest of the nations. Well, it feels and to Dan's point, like, it feels like the easiest way to do it. Like, if you could just get Christians in power like a Constantine or if you could just elect the right president who believes this thing or that thing and get a lot of them kind of in congress, like, won't won't the idea or the agenda of Yahweh flow into the world? No. No. It probably won't do that. And so,

like, it's it's it goes back to what we were talking about at the start of the show, which is like, you know how the gospel spreads is, like, through your close relationships and your families and your churches. And, like, if everyone's doing their thing in the small parts of the world to which God has you, the the government stuff is like, it's not that it's not important. It has drastic implications to your lives, but, like, it is not the means of which the gospel moves. Right. And so because there was that was not mentioned in Acts at all. Right. Right? Yeah. Like, how the government worked, how they funded sewers, you know, what political party was wondering what. Like, Paul's just like, you seem to be against me in this thing. Right. Here's the deal. And he and he Peter and John went to the temple and went, we really gotta get these Romans out of here so that we can get Christians back in. And they did. So Knowing the Christians were not there then. The early Christians did believe that, like, you you talk to people who have a lot of influence. Sure. Sure. But they weren't expecting that the government then, like, mandates or dictates something for the same reason God doesn't do that. Like, who wants to spend in, like, heaven or eternity with people who didn't wanna be there but just ended up there because they were forced to Right. Either because you scared them into hell or because your government said you had to. Like, we don't want that. We don't want a theocracy. And, like, it is an interesting thing in the in The United States to go I I I we we think we show probably power you don't push Christianity through power. We don't want a theocracy.

But to the extent that we can, we do want our laws to reflect the goodness that otherwise God's view of the world has. It's not it's not always such an easy or binary thing to to grab ahold of. And so, like, this is where I have a lot of grace for people who love Yahweh who are like, I don't know. How much do I push or care or do? I don't we're not sure. I I get that. So I I don't know. It was it was it struck me as it like, hey. You know, it's the the schools are just a a difficult battleground because there's just formidable minds in there and, like, good influence and bad influence wants the same influence.

I think I think Dan's point is a particularly salient one, which is like, is, you know, in that structure, you gotta know it for what it is. It's not you. It's not the it's not your church community. It's even people who love Jesus probably can't say all the stuff that they would say if they just had free reign to do whatever they wanted. And there's other people who have an agenda just like I might have what I believe to be a positive agenda to point you to Jesus. They have a positive agenda in their mind that's good is to unshackle you from these old school religious ideas. And so you just gotta take care of that stuff at home. Like, you've got to build

them up and be able to recognize it and just know that it's a strong force either from the infrastructures there or from sometimes the kids themselves. But like, this is the thing I remember now that that's what brought me into this. I'm like, Kind of a tussle between conservative and non conservative ideas in the schools. And then these goofball Trump Bibles, I'm like, dude, you're paying $60 for a Bible and, like, mandating that they teach them like, it's just a force thing that, like, what you're gonna remember is the Catholic school problem. Like Yep. Oh, yeah. They they told me I had to behave this particular way, and they're gonna force the wrong thing. They're not gonna handle God's word well because they're not people who teach god's word, and it's like, we're gonna have to undo that for the next thirty years. Right? Like, the people that you're asking to represent god's word were not

preachers, teachers as god has defined. Right? They're just a random dude reading out of it. Yeah. And, like, it's it's taking a short term box check. Look. We got the bibles in the schools. And, like, you're gonna chase that guy away from Jesus for forty years. It's it's gonna take to undo what felt like this oppressive, like, thing that's coming in from people who don't actually love Jesus who are trying to tell you about something that got mandated to him. I just you you can't win the wrong way in the kingdom of Jesus, and that's what this is trying to do, and I I really don't I don't, like, care for that. Yeah. You know what the Jews did in the first and second century when they got where they were overtaxed by Rome? They paid it. They paid the taxes. That's what they did. You know what I'm saying? Like, I could understand how they're like, hey, man. I wish we weren't being run by Rome, but we're gonna pay these taxes. Except for that Judas guy. He was like, we ain't doing that. Yeah. So then they all died.

That's that's true. These revolts never worked out. Oops. Judas like yeah. If I love that part. Sorry. We won't go to that. No. I I just read x four. It was awesome. It is funny, though. Like, the most successful I mean, even long term successful revolt was Jesus' Yes. And he very clearly paid his taxes. Yeah. He just had the fish bring it, but, I mean, he still paid. That would've been a great day. That was a temple tax. Hey, man. You should pay the you should pay the taxes. I'm a get some get some fish. There'll be a coin in there.

Alright. You're listening to, Live From The Path. Mike. Okay. Oh, wait. Bubba, you gotta ask the pastor. I did. Unless you wanted to go to something else. No. No. No. Let's do it. Okay. Fellas, I'm interested of you pastors in the room. All

of you, actually. Woah. Why'd you look at me? I look at you because you're the only guy who wouldn't call yourself a pastor. So I keep going back to this, right, all scripture is breathed out and is good for teaching.

And rebuking. And rebuking. It's all good things. How do you, as men who have felt uniquely called by God to be responsible for shepherding a flock of people, right, teaching them and guiding them in the ways. How do you go through the 66 books and then go, this is where I'm going next?

Is it you feel like God well, I'm not gonna give you the selections. How do you go through it? I'm interested to hear what your practical, this is my five step program that I do every time that I feel like I need to create a new sermon, or when I finished a book that I've done, that I've taught, there's logic to go on to the next book, but what is the next book? I'm very interested to hear, as someone who is is finding himself in a place where I'm starting to have these kind of conversations and and

starting to have these decisions, what do you do? Yeah, yeah. So I started preaching forty

and a half years ago, it's been Yeah. A while, And I can say I've gone through different methods. Sure.

I'll also say before I tell you those that I am amazed at how many times over the decades has never surprised, I mean, it's never ended. Like, how many times you think, woah, I had no idea how relevant this would be? Because I'll try to plan like a year ahead, in detail, but like, okay, I'm going this direction. Sometimes I'll have like actual scripture for the whole year ahead. Sometimes it's more like, okay, I'm going through Matthew, whatever

that means. And so in the beginning, in the early days, I would think to myself, what do people need to hear? Like, know what's going on, and, like, maybe the church needs this to go to needs to hear this, that I see an issue here or something. I was gonna say just based off of, like, political climate or where the culture was going or what you were seeing in the body that you were a part of? Of body, generally. It. Generally, yeah, like, oh boy, there's husbands are really disrespecting their wives. Need to hit some family issues or, you know, things like that.

And then I kinda evolved from that because I thought that gets me a little bit I'm I'm I'm I don't know. Judgmental is maybe the strong word, but I I'm because you gotta a Sure. It's reacting. Know what's going on. I'm reacting to things. Or it becomes obvious, like, there's Greg starts to recognize these sermons are following me around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah. I noticed your tithing is down. Well, guess we're in Malachi again, friends.

So then it evolved to more of a I just pray, and it's more generic. Know, like, god, what do you it's your church. It's your people. Right. Everything's yours. I I don't I don't I'll do whatever. Yeah. And and then just kinda let it go. And and sometimes, like like like, I'm Daniel now. I can't tell you. It wasn't like a a star in the sky that said Daniel. You know? It was just like I thought, Daniel. Right. You know? And I started going through Daniel, and it's been really applicable to what's going on to some people with some people. So that's what it's not a for me, it's not a a

really mysterious thing. I just pray, and then and then just say, trust god knows what he's doing, and he just always seems to. So Okay. Okay. That's not a a solid answer or step of, you one two three. It's totally fair. I appreciate the answer because I I assumed that was the answer in in both matters. Right? Like, you pray that that that god's gonna tell you a certain thing, whether it's through I have the ability to to to make the choices of this is a good book to go to, and it's good for the people of god to know about, or this is specifically like, this will be applicable because Daniel will mean something. When we hit Daniel seven, it will be applicable to my to my group, my my flock. Right. Will make sense to them to talk through what is what is apocalyptic writing, and and how are we thinking about this, and how is this relevant in Daniel's situation, and you know, what was the panther with the four arms and all this different stuff, right? There have been times I have stopped mid the series and thought, this isn't it. Interesting. And something else popped in, and it was like, oh wow, that was it, And then I'll go back. Okay. You know, it's it's that's happened before. Yeah. Okay. So I I I know I still it's just that inner voice thing, and it just says, nope. You're going different direction. And so you say inner do you believe that that was god saying to you through a feeling, through a nudge, through, like, a you listen to somebody else's sermon and the holy spirit thing? Yeah. Of the your bible on your own personal time, and then randomly you found yourself, like, led to acts, and so that's when you started preaching Dan, you better not be reading your bible on company time. I just

just mean like from the perspective of I would think is is I'm trying to to figure out how to teach, like, I want there to be my bible reading that I'm doing for me that doesn't necessarily have to be my bible reading that I'm doing because I believe that that's what God is teaching me. Like right now I'm reading in five different books, and I feel like God has led me to all of those, and it has been pertinent and fantastic in my relationships, in the circumstances in my life, and things like that, but I don't feel particularly called to preach through Jeremiah right now, but I definitely feel like I'm in Jeremiah for a reason. I personally have never

been able to sustain my personal reading plus what I'm teaching. Mean, term, short term. It sounded like I was saying like, well, this is how I'm doing it better than ever. Some people do. I got into plenty people who do that. Certain that was not Yeah. No. It's always been I was taught to do that. You know, like, gotta have your own time, and it just doesn't work for me. Just Got it. Okay. Because I'm not then I'm cheating on the other side. Sure. Because I, you know, have a weak mind that you have to study harder than other people, so.

I would call myself in the same situation, so that's fair. Okay, fair enough. Thank you, I appreciate that answer. Ben? Yeah. The The hand on the wall that you

I saw the writing. Tickle tickle. There's like three there's like three different elements. Sure. I think that go into it. The first one is is prayer. Like, I I will generally as I get towards the end of a book and I do just teach books, I'll be praying and asking God like, there something? Yeah. I

think it's happened maybe once where it felt very clear that this would be the place to go. Okay. So I don't I don't I don't know that I'm getting anything specific enough, but some of that is also, like, I just have a general belief that it does not matter what I teach. Mhmm. Yeah. Right. I I don't I don't it's it's It's all good. It's the notion of frustration that we get, like, because I don't teach anything for Christmas. I don't I ever like, I did I I wrote a liturgy for, like, Easter and Christmas over these last couple of years is something different, but otherwise, we were like, hey, Ben. What are we doing for Christmas? I don't know. It looks like we'll be in Daniel 10. Like, I just don't care. Yeah. Sure. So but what that so but there is a practicality

to where I end up. So as an example, the key things that because I think all scripture will otherwise do a good Absolutely. The the there is a practicality though to like,

we will teach I don't ever get too far from a gospel. So like, you'll see we teach a gospel and then you're probably not gonna get more than in time, it ends up being like six or eight months in books, maybe two to three books before we're back

Yeah. In a in a gospel. In the program. Because in my mind that that, like, I just you can't if I can't wander too far away from Jesus. Yeah. Right. And so maybe maybe sometimes a year, but we'll we'll get back there. And then we'll bounce between outside of the gospel. Generally, what I'll do is it's hard to go into the epistles in our context because everybody's in the room, and kids just cannot sustain

a long argument from Paul, an Like it's very difficult practically to hold onto, and so it's not that we don't do them, but I have to be a little bit more intentional about them. Sure. What we do get, so like going, we've hit say Old Testament stuff, like we intentionally did

like Ruth and Esther, Jonah, and then actually there was a run along where we did like Nehemiah and stuff like that, and so like, I will continue, if I start a book, I'll continue that pattern until the context ends.

So like, if there's a pattern to come out of Daniel and then it makes sense to come back in to like follow because it sets something up that needed to be followed through. Yeah. Right. I'll follow it through because I want the I don't want to drop the story. We just built up all the good context so that you can understand this next book well. We're gonna do it. Yeah, sure. So we'll Strike with the iron I'll follow it through, and then once the context kind of node like ends and makes sense to stop Sure. Then we'll jump, and then we'll probably move to something small in the New Testament before we start a gospel or something like that. Okay. But one of the primary reasons that we hit the Old Testament is one, I think God will do stuff with it, but it's less about the thing that I'm gonna say, or even sometimes what the stories are, but it's to create a better, a re sense of wonder into the old testament stories.

To to see them again fresh Right. In a way that didn't come out of a children's book. Yeah. In a way that said, you know, this actually there was a whole lot more going on here than I even realized. And it's one of the reasons we're like, will, I think to the consternation of of folks,

I will try to figure out what's the right way to pronounce the name in Hebrew. Like, what is what's what's the right way to say the city? And I don't say it or even in the New Testament, I'll do the same thing. And like, for example,

Ebenezer is not the way to say it. Right? That's the translation. It's like, Evan, hey, Nezer. Yes. Or Nazer. It's more like, just like Nebuchadnezzar would be Nezer. Yes. And here's the thing. I don't say that because it makes me sound smart. I like to go do that because it makes the story real to me. Like like Nebuchadnezzar is cartoonish in my mind. Nebuchadnezzar

is what his mom called him. This was a dude that did something. Evan Hay Nazzar was a town. You know, it was a location. And so like, I need that because I've read these stories so much that they feel I feel distant from them. I'm like, oh yeah, I know David and Goliath. I know the Dagon falling in the temple, right? And so I'm not so much worried that there's gonna be some sort of moral lesson out of a lot of the Old Testament books as I am to have someone go, you know, I've heard or read that story five times, and like, I missed

a lot of that in there. Not because Ben is particularly sharp, it's because it was there already and you so it's a reengagement in scripture that creates a wonder. Jonah is awesome for this. It's just an awesome book

to to reengage wonder in scripture where you might be missing it because like, I don't want them to remember a thing that I said as much as I want them to read the Bible at home and get a lot of the same things that we got out of talking about it as a group. And so I, a lot of times don't go to the Old Testament in particular because I'm after some cultural, like something rather that it's trying to say more so I'm looking for something that they're likely familiar with, that they get to see with a fresh lens and so that they can start to engage in all their scripture reading for that purpose. Sure, yeah. And then generally we'll bounce back out and we'll go hit up a gospel. And so like, there is a very, for something that is largely uncurated, like I don't care what we're teaching necessarily,

where we go does actually have a lot of curation to that is one, somewhat specific to my context, but also I think is designed even for a bigger thing. Like, I want you to teach

you to love to engage in scripture more so than I care that in any given week, it's gonna say a particular thing, you know? So, I think it's working so far, but like, I think to Dan's thing though, like, it's not a particularly sexy thing. Like, I really wish I could say, God said do Esther and I did Esther, but like, but pastorally,

I know my people. I know what we care about. I know where they're at in their walk with Jesus. And like, it is more likely

that we, everybody came from a Christian context to which some of these stories feel flatter than what they really are. And so I more care about reengaging wonder and seeing God in his depth and what he's

codified for us in the scriptures than a lot of the like, they mostly know what to think about in a given day, you know? And so if my context changed, then the things that I would go after might shift there as well. Sure. But yeah, that's generally how I do it. Yeah. Fair enough. And not to jump out of the context there, to to kinda hammer on on that piece. The the New Testament writers are writing things in in an understanding

that the that the Old Testament is alive and moving and and matters. And, like, it's not just these history books. Like, there are things that are that are coloring the current situations that they're in and the world that they're in. It's the same god that they're interacting with that just as Jesus is Emmanuel. Right? That god with us. It is an identity that we already know of because we have this history. And so I definitely in my walk have had an issue where I look at those at the Old Testament very flatly, and I just go like, okay. Like, I'll get back there every once in a while because I need my refresher course and stuff like that, but I really wanna spend Jesus time. But I'm like, I get better Jesus time when I understand that Matthew is using the words that Jesus rebuked the waves, and it means something because the rebuking of water is something that Yahweh did. And so Matthew is using that as a way for them to go, oh, no. You you're questioning who this this Jesus is because they've heard of men doing great things through God for generations,

but this is different. Yeah. This is much more Yahweh with us, and he has this power. Let me use these words specifically. And I do think it is different. It is different for, think of how, like, pastorally, normally what you do is like, oh, here's here's the thing that happened in the New Testament. Oh, here's three other texts of which it approached this in the New Testament or in the Old Testament. It's very different to see those things than it is to have experienced them. Yes. Like, you walk through those stories and you're like, you and and people start to draw those conclusions themselves. Uh-huh. Oh, that's like that. Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. It's work that comes alive like it is. Yes. Right. And it starts to remind you, like, it's funny. The, like, what what the key outcome of most, like, old test like, study the old testament, at least in our context is, did the scriptures come alive and you recognize

that, like, all problems are the same problems and they've always been no problem. Yeah. People always doing the same things. God always trying to do a thing here and there. Like, your understanding of his character like, we're always having to sort through, especially old testament, you're having to sort through why would God act this way? Is it okay that God acts this way? Does he still act this way? Yeah. These are great and righteous questions. These are just springboards to have those conversations. Totally fair. But it is it is just so much different for you to see it because you've walked through some of those things, and then you start recognizing the connections than someone to just go, see? See? Because it feels like we're proof texting you, like we bullied you with enough scripture that you're like, you should believe this, dude. What what you still have to do? Because like, yeah. You do it because that may hit fifty percent of the people who who did walk through it. Sure. And then the other 50% are going to eventually, and then they're gonna go, oh, yeah. I remember that Dan had said that one time. It didn't click then, but it clicks now. How many times have we said this in this room? You're like, it didn't click for me then, but now I understand. Yeah.

Yeah. What about you, Mike? Do you find yourself having a a a, like, a a process to figuring out what you're gonna teach? This changed for me a couple years ago when god put me in a situation where I was teaching mostly to people who didn't know Jesus. Mhmm. Because we were we're we're we're on milk. We're still on milk. Like, we're the there's the the meat thing is is

still a thing in progress. Right? And so, like, we weren't garnering, like, a deep relationship with with god and how to how to sustain that over a lifetime. We're trying to introduce who god is and lay it on top of a world that doesn't agree with that from where they came in the door. You know? And so

I used to do like, when I was teaching in a in a church, like, we'd find there'd be, like, a youth program or something or, the books or I don't know. You could get all kinds of stuff to do at youth group. Sure. Yeah. And and then when when we started doing this, I'm like, I god. I haven't like, everything you have said, like, I have zero idea what to teach these kids. Like, there's there's all kinds of things we could say,

but I don't know where any of them are at or what exactly they need. So, like, I kinda need you to fill in. And so the last couple years, like, I've literally we've just been we we do a big prayer thing before our youth group starts, and we just spend, you know, like, hour praying as a team in in our room for the holy spirit to show up. And then, like, literally between well, Troy and I, we just pray for that week that God will show up with the thing to talk about, and he has yet to fail. He he provides something every single week. And, like, I've had a couple of them that were just wild.

Like, I think I was it was a particularly rough week, and, like, I just was like, scripture was not it was flat. Everything I read, I just felt so distant from God. And, like, it's two hours before youth group, and I'm like I'm base almost crying on the way home. I'm like, god. I have no idea what you want me to tell these kids. And, like, he lays out this story on my drive home.

Like, I have a thirty five minute drive home, and and, like, it just this story just keeps coming in my head about, like, this imaginary Kirkit. And, like, it was a real C. S. Lewis, like, you know, like, ridiculous story that comes in my head. You know? And, like, I'm trying to remember it as I'm driving, and then I I just go home and write it all down. And I'm like, well, here's what we're gonna here's the story. And so then and, like, I don't I mean, it it point it it all pointed to him, but, like, it was just this very lion, witch, and the wardrobe esque story.

And, like and I'm like, boy god. Just he just provided in a way that I would've if I would've sat down and tried to write the stupid thing, there's no way it would've happened. And so, like, yeah, it's way less. It it's literally god like like, you know them. You know where all of them are at. Can you help me see what to teach them every Wednesday? And, like, every Wednesday, he comes up with something.

And so we've been riding on that for a couple years now, and it's very unsettling, honestly. Like, I mean, it'd be Tuesday. It's a holy wilderness to walk into. I don't know what we're talking about. Like, I still don't know. And, like, sometimes he'll wait till the last minute, and sometimes, like, I'll walk out of church Sunday and go, this what we're gonna talk about. I know I know what I know what we're gonna do. You know? And so, like, yeah, that was so so for the gamut, like, I don't know why you're gonna piece these three pieces of advice together.

No. I mean, I I I had a feeling of what the answers are going to be before I ask them. Like, because I know each of you personally. Right? Like and I've I've we've we've talked through this stuff. I've been taught by all of you individually at at some point in time in my life, and and so I I appreciate the answers. I I I definitely will take that back, and it certainly isn't a place where I feel like I'm in a vacuum, and I need you guys to to step in and really be the voice of God in this situation. I feel very good about about what we're already walking into. Like, God's already shown up with some stuff to talk about, and it's been amazing. Like, it's been super cool. And, like, we've already been two weeks into this deal, and it's been freaking awesome. Like, God has already made amazing stories, and, like, he's just he's such an incredible god that

the coincidences that were happening, if I didn't believe in God, I would be it, like, innumerable. So, no, I and I just I appreciate it because I'm like I talked about last week, there's there's a weight that I feel like is sitting on me that I never have felt before. And I'm trying to make certain that I walk through faithfully and look what that looks like. I understand that there is a perspective that goes like, I trust God to do this, and I trust God to be the one who's in charge

of this, and he's going to tell me what I need to speak to his children about. But I also know there's a practicality of like, I don't want to be in a desert of not hearing a specific, like, the Lord says to me, go to Luke four. And I go, alright, Lord, we're Luke four. Can you give me a verse specifically or are we just doing a whole chapter? All of Luke four. All of Luke four. Get through the whole Right? Like and so there's a practicality to me that I'm trying to take a step back and make certain I'm understanding that I'm also mixing with the healthy of, like, god is the one who's gonna make this work, and if if he speaks to me and says it's this chapter, I'll do it. But if he doesn't speak to me and say it's this chapter, then I know that he's got plenty of scripture out there that I can teach from, and like a lot of things, and I will get to a point where I know the people that are

I'm teaching, and I'll get to understand their walks and where they're at with Jesus and how I can use my teaching of the scripture, the holy spirit's words, right, like, to to be good for them and for them to be able to to contemplate that and change their lives and align themselves more with Yahweh. Yeah. And I I think it's it's good to be reminded too, and this this has application even beyond this particular scenario, which is, like, intentionality is not anti holy. Right. Yeah. Right? Absolutely.

In in the same way that, like, you as I think of think of, like, from a parenting perspective or even a spouse, like, you are designed to know your spouse, to know the details about them and how they behave and what is good for them and what is not. And you don't really have to get up every morning and go, Lord, I will not take any action with my spouse today unless you tell me what to go do. And so as you know them, you do things that show and demonstrate love to them. And and so the same thing is is perfectly fine, like,

to to to intentionally, like, you've been given a responsibility and God has given you the means to go, this is what's useful to your to your folks. To to Mike's example, like, sometimes you don't know. And so God is helping you with things until you can know, and maybe he continues to do that. Like, we we ended up in first Samuel,

starting Samuel here, and, like, I I mean, I probably give it, like, two weeks of prayer. I usually don't. I usually, like, forget, and then I gotta order books, and so I get I get in a pinch. And so but I'm praying, and, like, nothing nothing is happening. I'm like, well, okay. I think I think we we're coming out of the gospel, we're gonna go to first Samuel. It's gonna be fine. Like, I'm always open kind of like our first conversation for anything God wants to do. And to Dan's point, like, maybe interrupts half the thing. Right. But it's also not wrong to like, I don't know, you know what you're gonna say on Sunday morning roughly.

You studied beforehand. You didn't just say, God, I'm here. Use me however. He's like, I used you on Tuesday when you should have read ahead. Yes. Right. You know? And so like, and it's an odd, it's sometimes a difficult mix because you're trying not to make it about you, but recognizing that God is also probably uniquely using you and the things that you can are capable of doing. And so it's more so it's always to me, it's just like what's on the table. Am I am I charging ahead with my own thing, or am I saying, god, everything's yours. I'm up to whatever you got. And if he's not answering, it can't be because he's a bad god, and it can't because he's whispering and he doesn't want me to hear. And so if he's not speaking, I have to trust that he's given me the ability, knowing him, his character, and his word

to go walk faithfully in that. And so I'm gonna go do that. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Thanks, fellas. I appreciate it. Alright. Listen to live from the path. If you are setting up a bible study at your hopefully, has helped you. If you're a pastor who really had no idea what to do, then we've rescued you. This is the place. A pack of fleece, Amazon, 1999. Self drying fleece. Be here be here by 5AM tomorrow. Also, an acre or a hectare of land is available within heaven for $2,000.

Not not through us. There's a man in somewhere that'll sell it to dollars now. You'll be at the apostle level. Yep. Okay. Mike, let's do some advice on Dear Life on the Path. Yeah. Life on the Path. I helped a friend by giving her rides to and from work for two weeks while her car was being repaired. When she got her car back, she told me to let her know if she could ever repay the favor by helping me. Oh. Recently, my car needed repairs, so I asked if I could cash in the favor for a ride to and from work for a few days. She replied that she could do that for me, but I should know that she had already, quotes, paid the favor forward

by helping out one of her other friends. So she felt like she didn't owe me a favor any longer. I also get the impression that if she gave me rides to work, I would then owe her a new favor. I told her to forget that I asked, and I'd find another way to get to work. Is

there some rule of etiquette that says you should tell someone you are, quotes, paying a favor forward and then no longer owe them a favor? Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna we're gonna cover we're gonna cover the bible way of talking about this, and then we can talk about the practicalities of the situation this woman is in.

You don't have this problem if you just give it away. If you do things without expecting a favor in return, if someone owes you something and you just say, nope, I'm giving it to you. People can't steal from you what you're willing to give. And so this goes away easily with your own choices and your graciousness.

And even if she said and you you even if you've done this and you didn't think, you know, you don't owe me anything. And then you call her up six months later and say, my car's in the shop. Can I get a ride? I'd be glad to help cover gas if you'd be able to help me out. Like, I know you think you've been ripped off, but you haven't. You solved the problem by just not having an expectation and doing the most generous and gracious thing in all parties, and this would go away. You wouldn't even have to worry about it. Okay. Now now you may deal with the practicalities. It's like

it's like I borrowed $500 from Ben. And then Ben comes to me six months later and goes, Mike, you remember that 500 I borrowed? I'm like, I do remember it. Someone else needed that 500, so I gave it to them. I gave my 500. I was gonna give you to somebody else. I no longer owe you $500. That debt has been paid.

It's it's preposterous. It's the most outrageous thought I've ever heard of. The amount of ridiculous situations in which like, the the the Jesus in me is is super helpful in these situations. Because, like, if I if I look at the world and, like, god is my comfort and he is my portion, then, like, I I get nothing from other people, and I am all the better for it. I don't expect anything from anyone. I don't expect anyone's reactions to be good. I don't expect anyone's

interactions with me good me to be good. I don't care how much they owe me or I owe them or any of this stuff. It's just all how do I take this thing that I'm dealing with with this person and go, how would Jesus love them? And then it changes everything. And, like, I'm not saying that as a perfect practitioner of those rules. There's still a lot of work that God is doing in my heart on that. But, like, the amount of situations that I just go, yeah, you you thought you could hurt me, and you can't. And then they go, why can't I hurt you? And then it turns into a Jesus conversation is fantastic. You would be astonished. You'd just be freaking astonished if how many of those things happened. And so change your ways. Seriously,

You're ridiculous. Now to a more practical perspective, this person probably doesn't know Jesus. Yeah. Her reaction sucks. That was that was dumb. She should've never done that. There's no expectation of, like, hey. I paid it forward, so now I don't owe you at all. You don't get to be generous on my dime. I'm gonna tell Wells Fargo that. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And you could very easily lie this system through. I owe you a grand, Mike, but don't worry. I gave a thousand dollars to a fellow you've never met and are never gonna talk to over here. So I guess you just need to just to expunge those records. A boy, a thousand dollars a thousand dollars was given to somebody. Yeah. Thought it was you or not. The point is money changed hands, and it doesn't matter where the money ended up. Just know that all the ledgers are clear. Let's get not let's not get all tied up in this who and where and what type of stuff. Yeah.

Gosh. Somebody owed somebody, and somebody got paid. That's all you need to know. Yeah. Alright. You know what? You should send your friend to work and go, hey. Listen. Let's see if they can come up with the same deal with your paycheck. Now listen. I know that we owed you $750 for the week, but we went ahead and gave it to Stacy. Yeah. We paid it forward and PTOed to someone else over here. Okay. So here's a question. Let's let's say you you handle it and just go, look. I don't you don't owe me anything. No worries. Sure. But do you not still owe this person as a friend some counsel

Sure. To say, hey. Even though I don't care, I need you to know that, like, you're thinking about this wrongly, and it's going to get you in a pickle. That's it seems like you should still do it. Yeah. I think you could be like, hey. It's fine. Like, we're past this, but, like, I need you to take a step back and and and look at this from anyone else's perspective, any other view that's not your own, and and that'd be crazy. Like, I love you as a friend, and I'm gonna stay your friend. Because maybe you don't know you're not safe enough in your life to be a friend or, like, deal in normal situations. So let me just tell you, our friendship isn't at risk. It's okay. But I'm gonna tell you a harsh thing, and I'm still here to love you when it when it hits you harsh. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, like, a broad lesson is, like, keeping a ledger is just a real pain in the teeth. It really is. It is. It's a real pain. And, like, this this goes back. Know Curse upon you. I think we talked about this three or four shows ago, but when I had ended up on a Sunday morning and it was just my family and we we talked through the love is patient, love is kind type of stuff. Sure. And, like, it just like, the strength of, like, things that keep no record. Yeah. And you go, I'm just not watching it like a hawk all the time. And so, like, keeping records is exhausting. Trying to keep a ledger of who owes what, not even just money, but time and favor and who talked to me the way I should've and who's been over to so and so's houses often. Like, what a pain in the teeth.

Just give it up. Just give it up and say, it's not even my problem. Right. It's more of a blessing to you to no longer have the curse that is keeping the ledger Yep. Than it would have been to get the money back. Freedom. The question was, is there some rule of etiquette that says you should tell someone you are paying a favor forward and then no longer owe them a favor? No. That's dope. Secular says, if there is, this is the first time I've heard of it. The friend you describe is what they call a bean counter or a scorekeeper. This is someone who places excessive emphasis on controlling things like expenditures, budgets, and, in her case, relationships.

Folks like that are best avoided. Yeah. I I don't know that I agree with your assessment here. You're just talking to a selfish person because, like, this makes perfect sense if the only economy you care about is your own. Right. Like, if your friend's economy is like, well, there's money out. There's money in. There were rides given out. There were rides taken. Then if you're the only person in the equation, then this what she's saying actually does make perfect sense. But, like, it's literally discounting that anyone else in the world exists or there's any type of any any type of thing that would bother them or take them into account. Doesn't that make the writer also a bean counter for trying to cash in on the return? Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And is that is that culturally offensive? Or, like, why are we calling people bean killers?

Because it's it's a form of like, it's something to be measured. It just beans are cheap, and someone who would count the beans Oh, I didn't I didn't think there was any, like, monetary amount to the I I thought beans used to be currency. I just thought it was someone could look at, like, an equation and be able to count beans and see what is owed and what is what is paid. No. Their whole economy is based on beans. No. No. What? Actually, that would be interesting. Maybe?

Like, the fava is the $5 and the great northerns are a Arbanzo actually meant 30. The great northerns. The great northerns are big. Table would be funny. Okay. I'll I'll I'll ask the AI that, and I'll get it posted out on our Facebook this week. Like, if beans were a currency, please tell me the denominations of of the beans up through $50 bill. Yeah. That's that's a great idea. We're gonna put AI to work for some good. Garbanzo is 20. Okay. Alright. Well, let's do one more. Okay. This will be quickie. Ready? Your life from the path. Yep. A beloved friend and family member has a habit of changing the temperatures of food that is already being cooked by other people.

What? Is this considered rude? Is there a polite way to correct the situation? Give me an example. I don't understand. They're changing the oven temp. Yeah. They're cooking the chicken at 03:50. They're like, ah, three seventy five. Seventy five. They just walk they just walk by yourself.

Here's the deal. What? It's gold. Is there more? No. That's it. I have been on both sides of this. Okay? I know a good way to cook most things. Well, I know a good way to cook lots of things. Let me say it that way. I know plenty of people that cook around me that do not know great ways to cook lots of things. I know for a matter of fact that a chicken thigh is almost perfect, three seventy five for fifty five minutes. I've

gone into someone's house and I've seen them cooking chicken at three twenty five, and I go, you know, you get crispier skin. You get a better situation from a three seventy five. Let's crank that up. And they looked at me like, it was more important to you to be right than for me to feel comfortable in my own home in this situation. And I'm like, crap. Yes. I gotta change. I mean, no. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Like, yes. Wait. How do I have no worth everywhere else. Yeah. And so this is the only place that I your pale, slimy chicken. Right. Nowadays,

I will eat the dry chicken. I will I will deal with with, like, all the situation, and, like, I still have the urge to go, like, but I know the I I know a better way. No. But I recognize that it is more important to me now for that person to not have to deal with me going, you could be doing better. Yeah. So I I I I love my lovely bride a lot,

and she has a tendency to want to cook things quickly. Mhmm. So just crank that heat up. Yeah. And so for many years, will walk by and like, I'm just gonna go ahead and turn that down. It's more like fire safe. Usually on a stove. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, are you supposed to boil peas for ten minutes? I don't, you know. That's hysterical. Yeah. And

because yeah. I I mean, I love her dearly. She but she will walk away as well. Sure. And so therefore things sometimes are cooked more than they need to be. Oh gosh. Office Spider Man of cooking. Like Yeah. When when the rest of the world is sleeping dens and they're secretly changing time in there to make the world right. I need to say I need to cook for my man. Man was a nighttime crime fighter? Yeah. What? Yeah. He goes to school during the day. Yeah. For sure. Busy. But then many times, leave school. I've seen the movies. It's mostly

That's only when they're on, like, a location somewhere. Yeah. Think to a museum. Have been a great person to pull from, like, a nocturnal crime fighter. Yeah. But you went to Spider Man? Yeah. Spider Man. Okay. Alright. Whatever. Sorry. It's just a weird thing to Yeah. You're like the Spider Man of the cooking world. So the question is, is this considered rude? Is there a polite way to correct the situation? Zegler says, dear Buba, may be time Not expected. To post a sign on your oven or stove advising visitors, beloved or not, that you do not want your appliances tampered with. Oh my god. Like a church kitchen.

This is great. Do not mess with the formula. I write out a cue card that says water will boil at medium. Stop it. Whoever has been doing this is extremely presumptuous because it could potentially ruin the entire meal. Yeah. Or be better. However, that's what matters. Depending on how awesome you are. Yeah. Depending on how many times you've watched guys big bite. Yeah. Just saying. Alright. I'm gonna tell you guys a secret. Okay. I only know how to I only know how to cook one thing, and it's fried egg sandwiches, and I'm really good at them. Oh. Yeah. And here's the deal. It's not even true. You put you put some oil in a pan, you put it on medium, and then you stick your hand in the sink and throw some water in there. When that water starts crackling because the oil got hot, time to throw the eggs in. Are you saying you you put your hand under the sink and then you put the water from your hand Yeah. And throw it at the oil I flick water in the oil. Creates the Leidenfrost effect, then you are willing to say that's hot enough for an egg. Yeah. Got it. That's exactly how it works. Then literally fifty eight seconds later, eggs are done. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. You should bring it in. You you should make some egg sandwiches for everybody. I've known you for twenty years. You've never once made me a fried sandwich. Never asked for one. I've cooked for you on You mostly judgmentally sit in my kitchen and, like, turn up knobs and whatever. No. You're also the same person that reads the box of of Kraft every time. Oh, yeah. Hey. You gotta do it as they say the first time at least. It's not true. Yeah. It's just not I put the exact amount of water in the pan too. I know you do. Yeah. It's not even that important. You can boil that macaroni in water that's just covering it. The the box says it is. You can do it in a 10 inch Why would they speak to it if it wasn't important? Because they have to speak to the masses. That's what I'm saying. I'm the masses. Yeah. And I make perfect mac and cheese every time. No risk. I never go, oh, this didn't turn out right. It turns out the same every time. There were legions of chemists that made it almost impossible for you to be able to mess that up. Lunch lunch lady Mike kicks it out every time. Lunch lady Mike. You've listening live from the path. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you got any feedback on the show, hit us up on the line from the path. Bob Eisner complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Call or text. We'd love to hear from you. I believe hey. We got some we got a musical guest coming in. Maybe it's next week. I'll double check the thing. Anyway,

in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the path.