Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from the path. Live from the Pathway. We're coming to you from the Pathway Studios. I live with something else here in Junction Proper. I was so close to being upgraded. So so excited. I don't know what you guys are talking about. You took so long to stay alive from the Path. I was like, are we changing the name of the show? No. Is something changed? I'm scared. Sorry. Mom and dad. And then I was reassured, man. Things were not things were not behaving themselves. I considered the way that you said that, and then I moved off. I got Pope style advice today. Oh, Okay. Whiz bang. Alright. Here's what's going on the program this evening. First, I saw somebody posted something on Facebook, and it was basically a calling out of their church body.

How'd it do it? And I had some thoughts. So I, like, I just, I'm kinda, one of the questions is going to be, when you think you've been wronged by a church leader or your church community or like something, like what is the best way to go about this? And how do you think about, like where do you draw the line and go, You know what? This is not a healthy place for me anymore. And I think that dovetails a little bit into

an article that I found, which is 10 Wrong Views About the church from the Christian Post. And so I think maybe we can get into that one and we'll see. It might help to talk about how to talk to people about their church hurt too, right? Because it's I mean, it's common. Oh, yeah. It's real common. Both modern day and, like, people who were, like they feel like they were either hurt by their church or hurt by their religion Yep. Mhmm. Like, even twenty, thirty years ago, you know, from from coming as a from a kid. You know? And they're like, they walk away with this perspective. And it'd be kinda interesting to, like, just talk about how to even talk about that with all without also,

like, gossiping about the people of Yeah. Of whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, how you walk that line without, you know, becoming just getting into sin territory yourself by, you know, slandering other people or being like, hey. My version of Christianity is better than everybody else's. Like, that's the best temptation or the easiest temptation is to somebody tell you what how hurt their church was, you're like, our church isn't like that. Our church does great things. Blah blah blah blah. Right? And then it becomes a battle of church against church instead of a relationship with Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. I just got I just got a one star review from someone who I haven't seen for ten years. And then some spewed out something about doctrine or something. I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And it was like yeah. What a wild thing to go back ten years later and do a review on the church. I yeah. It was kinda interesting. Okay. Alright. Spiffer's really hurt me. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Here's the thing is if you carried that around for ten years, I don't even know how legitimate that is because, like, that's By the think. Way more than it's hurting somebody else. Yeah. It was Dang. That's interesting. Thanks. Sorry, Dan. I mean, I

I guess I don't care. You know? We're I mean, know, it was kinda like, people read reviews, I guess. But anybody who would read that would go like, okay. That's weird. You're gonna be swayed by that kind of review. This is hilarious. They just were in the church. Can you say Jesus reading the Nazareth Times? And he's like, Beth Seder gave me a one star review. Yeah. You think it's because I said woe to you? Yeah. You think they took that wrong? You pronounced a woe. And there's there's a nine thumbs down from some lepers.

One guy seemed to like it. Or his thumb was broken. One out of ten lepers recommend Jesus. I was gonna send a thank you card. Oh. Yeah. That's actually a pretty funny biblically accurate teacher. Okay, so we're gonna talk about that. Also, Mike's got some

Pope style advice, and we got some advice on Dear Life and the Path? Yeah, think so. I think that's the situation. Okay, so maybe let's do this article first and then we're gonna oh wait, no you didn't have an Ask the Pastor. You had a I didn't have an Ask the Pastor. I did some digging after the Ask the Pastor from last week. Yeah. You're right, this fricking Jacob thing, the sticks don't mean anything. Yeah, I I I don't know why I was looking for for something deeper than I was, but there's something cool about, like, yeah, Jacob did a thing and, like, was trying to, like, be in it. Like, was being in in this thing, and god just went, yeah. I'm gonna bless this. Yeah. Let's come back. I'm just gonna go ahead and bless Hey. Actually didn't do the thing. There's nothing crazy, wicked about poplars. Yeah. It's just something that, like, it was a it was a physical manifestation expression of something he was trying to do, and God went. I have every plan of of fulfilling promises through this, so I'm gonna go ahead and get You know what's interesting? I was thinking that that situation this week and thought that,

one, how awesome that he even bothers to bless something like that. And and think of our attempt Jacob. You got you know, just think of of a prayer rocks in your house or, like, something that you do that, like, don't have to do. There's no biblical prescription that it's done. It's magic or anything. No. Yeah. Yes. But but but the belief or the thought that God goes, I see what you're trying to do there. I can work with that. Sure. Yes. Right. Like, whatever feeble or, like, thing that we're just grasping onto. I like, I don't know. It's super encouraging and also, like, fatherly and, like, I don't know. Oh, totally. That's great. Like, there's something beautiful about the paternal relationship. Well, the the the God to man relationship that that God is is, like, glorifying in this peace with Jacob even though he does everything wrong. Like he screws up the vast majority of this stuff. Yeah. And like he just goes, yeah, I mean I made you a promise. And like you are that and you're doing this kind of thing but like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna offer you riches and I'm gonna fulfill the promises I made to your forefathers. Like your grandfather, I meant it. Yeah. Absolutely meant it. I wanna do it. Mhmm. Okay. Anyway, so the the article was 10 wrong views about the church. Oh, how many think we're gonna agree with? I say four out of 10. I'm a go with five. You go five? Mike? How many think we're agree with? Seven. Seven? Oh gosh. Seven's high, Dan. That we're gonna agree with? I'm I'm gonna say two. Two. Alright. Oh. See what happens. Oh, that's a good point. Wrong view. Do I agree that this is wrong? I suppose this is the okay. This is gonna be hard Disagree with the author. This is harder to keep track of. Okay. That's true. Yeah. Here we go. I'm doing a table of negatives here. 10 wrong views about the church. In today's hyper individualistic and consumer driven culture, many believers hold views about the church that are shaped more by modern convenience than by biblical truth. Yeah, I'm gonna agree with eight.

Dan, here's the premise that goes, crap, eight goes to 10. It's taking a turn. These misconceptions are not just theoretical, unnecessary semicolon. They influence how Christians live, serve, relate, and grow in Christ. As a result, we are witnessing a disconnection, not disconnect, between professing believers in the body of Christ, the very church Jesus died for and is coming back for. To recover a biblical understanding of the church, Dan, we must confront 10 common erroneous views. No Amen.

Okay. This New idea. How many times has Ben gonna call out something grammatically wrong in this article? This is a legit website. Why? There shouldn't That's be a true. The Christian Post is like, I mean, is this the best what we have to offer? Cause usually we're getting stuff from like christian beliefnetbeliefs.org. Yeah. Beliefnet.org. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Number one,

erroneous view. The body of Christ is only mystical. The body of Christ is only mystical. Many Christians think of the church only as a mystical or invisible body, which allows them to believe they can be part of the universal church without committing to a local congregation. Okay. It's a weird way to put it. Yeah. Right. I was just They don't have to go they don't think they have to attend. Right. Yes. Right. They can be a Christian and They believe in the mysticism. Yeah. Scripture, however, affirms that the church is both visible and invisible. While there is a spiritual unity among all true believers, that unity is meant to be expressed tangibly through local assemblies.

Even the promises of scripture were primarily given to a covenant community, not to isolated individuals. A Christian disconnected from the local church will struggle to fully obey the New Testament. Yeah. Like, I I hear this sometimes. Right? Like, people are like, I don't wanna go to church. I'm good on my own. Me and the big guy upstairs are fine. All the stuff. You know? And, like, I I was just having this conversation earlier today, I think, and it was about look. People who have an indwelling presence of the holy spirit all tend to start acting the same way. Because, like, we're we start to exhibit the fruits of the spirit. And so, like, they it's not like they're all just robots. Right? But, like, their heart posture tends to start all

going kind of a similar direction, which is why Christian communities communities can tend to get, like large scale things done both for a charity of humanity around them and like works that they want to do. And so like you find this weird outlier who's like, Yeah, God build me to be the lone wolf. And then I'm like, Alright. I mean, it's not like I can't find a biblical example of a dude or two out there just hoofing it on their own. Right. Right? But, like, the weeping pastor is the kind of guy I think of the weeping prophet, and then Paul's out getting his his whooped in every town and producing fruit on his way. And you like, you have a subscription to Fox News, and then you're trying to convince everyone to go to Hillsdale College. Right? These are the this is the fruit you're producing. And so I'm like, hey, man. Like, if we're gonna use the Bible to reference and say this is the way that God has tuned you to be, like, I expect to see x amount of fruit coming out of you and a couple more bruises, and I'm seeing zero of those things. So hard to take in. Yeah. I I get this to God, and you get this a lot with, I know, families who get involved in, say, sports or like other things that are, whether it's a company's church, and like, you start to move this definition of like, well, my community is these people, and it's an outreach, and like, obviously they're not going to church, and so now I have the ability to kind of witness to them, and like, I think there's a caution in, like, I don't know, sometimes you just ain't gonna make it to church, right? It happens. Right, yeah. Right? But I think this belief that I don't have to be part of like a local community or I don't, like,

if you're in the have to territory, I'm not even sure that's the right conversation. Like, why don't you wanna be there? Right. Exactly. When you gather. Is when all the other people are doing it. This is when your community's gathering. Like, I just don't. And and it's so much bigger than, the the 10:00 hour or whatever. Oh, totally. You know, it's it's it's that community. We've mentioned the word several times. The the the it's so much more involved. It's your life as you're you're living your faith out together with people. I want a lot more than your Sunday morning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so people who think that way tend to only think of it as the one hour event that happens where they sing a few songs and hear a sermon, go home, and Yeah. Go off and do their own life. So I had a guy tell me recently, I'm not for small talk, so I don't I don't do church anymore, but me and the big guy are good. And I was like, fantastic, friend. No. So it's

Like, I'm I'm gonna go ahead and love you enough right now to not feed you the line of crap that every other person in your life is willing to give you. That's ridiculous. You are incorrect completely, and I can point to at least 12 things that I know have happened in the last seven days that tell me that you are absolutely in no way good with the big guy. So we're gonna move forward with that. Yeah. And I you know what's like, there's this particular guy that I'm thinking of who did I think every one of us had a dude. Has got like, every time they've blown up their life in some way or another, it felt like within a day, they'll, call and be like, this is for the best. Like, I know it doesn't look like it, but this is the right decision, and this is what's best for me, blah blah blah. And, like, no, it isn't. Like, there's no way that it is. And so, like, it's it's it's this type of like, people like, you're the exception to the pattern. The whole church goes and has believed for centuries that

a coming gathering is important and being part of the community is important regardless of whatever social barriers may otherwise exist. There's people who would like there's people who would kill for the opportunity to be able to consistently meet with their church community and celebrate and sing or whatever. And you're like, I don't know if I'm going to make it. And like, I get it. You you can you can be a Pharisee about it, but that that's more of an accusation to like, don't want you to hassle me than Yeah. Like, hey. I really wanna be there, and I'll figure out a way to make it happen because God tells me that it's important. So, yeah. It's just an odd posturing and like, I just don't have not seen outside of some situations of which it's like, hey, you literally can't. Right. Yeah. Like, God going, hey, the guy who is is a missionary by himself and has no one around him does not have a strong community? Okay, that's kind of the nature of his circumstances. I've never actually been in a situation where someone was trying to convince me this wasn't a problem, who was actually in that limited of a sit Right. Like,

yeah. Any time I've ever seen this, it's either reaction to pain or reaction to pride. Yeah. Like, those are the two things. I've been hurt, I'm Number two, the wrong views about the church. The church is like a supermarket. Modern believers believers often shop for churches the way they choose retail outlets, looking for the best music, kids programs, preaching style, or convenient location. I'm not sure it means you have to go to an inconvenient location or someone mean, unless god full out is, like, telling you straight up Yeah. You go the other 10 miles. Yeah. I have a toll booth guy I'm working on. I want you to swing by and have to talk to him every Maybe that's the deal. You're not sure. Alright. Somebody's got that kind of story, but it doesn't seem to be the the par for the course. So it is interesting here because the the they finished by saying the church is not a consumer product. It is a covenantal community. What are they paying him by semicolon? God himself places each member in the body as he desires.

We are called to discern where God is planting us, not to treat church membership like a gym subscription. And so, like, understood, but, like, I mean, it's not just because these things are true for you doesn't mean you're in the wrong spot. Hey. I did I didn't make it inconvenient to go. Hey. The music has to suck. Like, like, these things are not necessary. Checklist for I can't have these things. Right. Right. But, like, I think that's fair. I think that the call to consumerism is probably fair, though, because I've I mean, every one of us has run into plenty of situations where they're like, I left that place because I didn't like the lighting. Everything

else was great. I really liked the teaching. The people were good, all the different stuff, but just like, man, I really just couldn't get past that Majestic Hugh. Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They switched donuts, and I don't like that coffee anymore. I think the question is is did you ask Yahweh? Did you ask him? Yeah. Right? You even ask him what church you were supposed to be in? Yeah. Right? If you ask asked him that question and he answered or you asked that question and you don't feel like he was coming back in any strong force or not, then you're like, I'm gonna go here then. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. You know what I'm saying? But, like, if if when you, like, praise place your priorities over his, that's when we have a problem. Because he might have you talking to towables guy. He might have you driving Yeah. Forty five minutes specifically because you're gonna run into some guy two years from now. I don't know. He does these things. I don't do these things. And so, like, he says these same thing with like, I hear this a lot when people are like, the church is not going the direction that I want it to go or, like, the teaching was x or whatever. And I'm like, look. If God told you to leave, cut a trail. Yeah. If you prayed about it and they refused to accept any type of biblical like, I don't wanna say reprimand, but, like, come like, scriptural that looks at it and says, look. The things that you're saying are unbiblical. We need to talk about that. If they have closed ears to it and there's no fruits in that church, yeah, it's time to go. For that reason. But, like, if did you consider that God is asking you to stay? Because people are misunderstanding things and you're the representation of what true gospel actually looks like in there before you decided to bail out of convenience? Like, that I don't appreciate. I think, like, you at least have to be willing to have God be in the middle conversation. And then if he answers you to not do the thing you wanna do, which is pretty classic for him, then you stay. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Three is

wrong views about the church. The church exists for good experience. Some approach church for a weekly spiritual boost, a moment of entertainment, or emotional encouragement. While encouragement is good, the church's mission is far greater than producing a spiritual high. The church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, one Timothy three fifteen, A training ground for discipleship and the primary vehicle through which God advances his kingdom. It is where believers are formed into the image of Christ through the word, the spirit, the covenantal this is a little bloated. Whatever. Look at the semicolon. It's here's the thing. They're interchanging. They're using the word church in, like, three different contexts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is what gets very difficult. Because, like, if you say, did you go to church? Right? In our context, it means, did you go on Sunday at ten? Right? Or, like, whatever. Yeah. But like, the way he's describing a church is very much how God looks at a church and goes, this is the body of believers that are a agreed upon community. And yes, we are on the hook for discipleship and we are on the hook for but like that does not happen between ten and eleven. Like ten and eleven, like whatever the the message tends to be, like tends to be a thing that like God is communicating to a group of people or like to better understand his word and his character. And, like but, like, the discipleship stuff, it I mean, it can happen through classes and corporate whatever. But, like, a lot of times it happens through individual relationships and accountability people. Yeah. And, like, these are individuals within a church body Right. And not necessarily a programming problem on Sunday.

And so, like, I think that word's just getting used Yeah. Broadly. Yeah. The word actually, the the the part the poor word here was weekly. But, like, if I think about the the people that I'm surrounded with in my church community, are they a spiritual boost? Yes. Do they provide entertainment? Sure. Yeah. Right. Yes. Are they an emotional encouragement? Like, my church for me is those things. Yeah. It's just not a weekly like, it's an every it's these are what the people are. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a a tweetable tweet. You know? Yeah. It's like, that's a great little quote. You know? Oh, I feel good about myself now. It it it it's the community in itself that you Yeah. Feed off of. Which is interesting. I was thinking this Sunday. I was I was teaching, and we're in we're in second Samuel, like we did first Samuel to start, and, like,

it's a bit dry. Like, it's a bit dry of a thing. Like, there's stories going on, and there's, like, a lot of care there's lot of people, and they're from a lot of different places. Right. And, like, there's a lot of kinda like, there there's some lessons to take away from it, but, like, it's kinda the same thing. Like, listen to Yahweh. Don't go after your own stuff. And, like, it's essentially that and then repeated where people keep doing missing those two things. Story of Israel. Over and over again. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, this is a little dry. And I'm I'm aware of this and but I'm just I'm thinking every once in while I get real self conscious about it. And then I I was I was trying to think, well, like, what is my what is my actual philosophy here? Like, I I could just skip it. I could move on to other things. I could prepare some talking points and stuff and things that I don't ever really do. And I thought, well, why don't I do that? And like one of the things that occurred to me was is I look at teaching on a Sunday morning as a slow burn.

I don't look at it that I have a responsibility to create a moment or a flashpoint or like a a thing that precisely calls somebody to a thing outside of whatever god might be doing with the thing that I'm teaching that week. And I'm not I'm not saying it's wrong or bad to do that stuff. I'm just saying that, like, in my mind, I'm not

if you come there looking to say, like, I wonder what he's gonna teach today as if it's the thing that's gonna call you and, like, blast you off, it's probably not gonna do that. Sure. But what I do expect it to do is like this slow burner thing when like as you're reading on your own, you're seeing connections because we've like you've had you've been steeped in it for the last, you know, x number of times showing you how to read the scripture. It's it's hell like, and that God does create those out of whatever inane thing that I actually did am covering that week because, like, oftentimes, regardless of what I thought of, he'll use it and it'll hit somebody in some way or another. But the reason that's it's possible is because it actually is a community thing. As a community, we are doing this. We are walking through this thing. Right. We are building foundations of things. And then like, I was one of the one of the the folks from the church is like at college and like, the the things that we're talking about over the last two years are now like showing up when they're interacting with other people talking and learning and stuff. And so, anyway, I say that because like, I think if it's not a community, then, yeah, these are mostly events, and then you have to have specific outcomes if you want a successful event. Like, you better send someone out the door with the five things they're gonna hold on to. Mhmm. And you better,

like, create, like, flash moments of which, like, change or type of stuff because you don't have the extended relationship or community to do that. But to get the value out of that, actually have to invest in it. Like, you gotta be around. You gotta be around the people. You gotta be around the events. You gotta, like, do the things that the community is doing and the community thrives together. And so, like, it is just there's a uniqueness to that, and it's different than, like, what did I get out of it, or did I have a boost, or, like, whatever. Alright. Well, we get moving through these things. Here we go.

Is just for good disagreed with any of it yet, have we? No. I don't Number think four, the church is a physical building, that that's the wrong view about the church. I think we already talked about that. That's true. Sure. Church can meet in I mean, all churches mostly do, but that's not as the that's not the definition Right. Of the church. It's just a place where they meet. Five, wrong view about the church. They said the church is roaming, not rooted. With the rise of online services, many believe in the church is wherever I am. Others argue they can live like Paul's traveling team without belonging to a local body. This is kinda the first one. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's a yeah. Hey, man. You can definitely do this, but I better see some fruit

in relation to what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You don't get fruit unless you're rooted. Jeez. It's possibly true, but, like, looking at your life, it's not probable that it's true. Right. Yes. Exactly. What's that? What's what's my guy from the Instagram? We're looking for fruit. That's how we tell if things are happening. Fruit. That's funny.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Early church was rooted in actual locations. Paul's team was mobile. They were sent by and accountable to local churches. Paul's team. It says that's a weird way to Yeah. You know, put that. Timothy. The security guy. The security guy. Silas. Who obviously sucks. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Paul's security team is absolute trash. He's like, yeah. We really Paul, we really think it's a bad idea for you to go to that town. Yeah. I recognize what you're saying. Yeah. No. Like, cool to him. Like, we like, Paul, we when you realize this is a bad idea, Like, there's a lot of people out there that wanna attack you. He's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. I know. Know. I

Paul, like, legitimately, people are gonna kill you here. He's like, I understand what you're saying. We're gonna go and clear this up because this this Zeus Hermes thing, it's gotta go. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta be done. Like, you're gonna get killed if you go. We appreciate what you've said. We're gonna go now. They probably he probably had bodyguards. And they were hopeless. And they were like, hey. Look. Two tenths ain't worth it, man. I ain't doing it. This is a bad idea, Paul. Yeah. I know. I'm a go. Alright. Number six, the church is just two or three gathered. Some misapply Matthew eighteen twenty to claim any Christian meetup as a church. What are we doing here? Oh, man. Why are we even talking about this? We're misusing the word church again. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can meet up with you three fellas, and we're the church. Yeah. Right. Or, like, we're not the church of the three dudes. Yeah. I think I've just got an old green shirt. The premise of of the the writer at this point in time. Yeah. So, actually, yeah, this one I would disagree with because look at the definition. He says a true biblical church is a covenantal community with leadership, sacraments, mission, and intergenerational

discipleship. You're telling me, like, three dudes who are 25 or 10 dudes who are 25 can't have a church because there's not another generation of people in there? That's sweet and a token, old man. We gotta have a geezer. Otherwise, it's We need we need a 100 and a baby. Guys, we really need you to start having kids. We don't have generations yet. We gotta make this a church, friends. Right now, we're just a gathering. Can I borrow your toddler for a minute? We're having a church over here. And, mission, like distinct by what? Like the boundaries, like my All like there's three different communal gatherings going on related to people in this room. And like we all share the same mission to follow Jesus. How it expresses itself and whatever local thing may be a little bit different, but, like, I don't need to declare a fresh one. Right. Like Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I disagree with this one because I think you're actually boxing it boxing it in too tight. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Number seven, the church has no human leaders, only Jesus. It says Christ is indeed the head of the church, Colossians one eighteen, but he governs through human leaders he appoints. Paul said he was set apart for the sake of God's elect, and first Corinthians affirms that God himself establishes apostles, prophets, teachers. Rejecting all human leadership results in spiritual drift and lack of accountability. Healthy church honors the God ordained order of leadership, which protects, equips, and shepherds believers. This is stupid. I don't know who he's refuting. Or you, Rashid, the author. I I mean, like, is anyone making these arguments? Any of them? Maybe a couple of them slightly. But There's no human leader here. And then the power goes out, and they go, Jesus.

You were supposed to send out a power bill. I mean, you see this I do see this every once in a while in the house church segments where they don't do they don't do any semblance of, like, leader. That's a circus, by the way. Amoeba? Yeah. Just amoeba. Yeah. And and actually, it's interesting because, like, I I think ours is is rare where you've got like a specific person. Yeah. Right. Because like the so where you get the snobbish house churches, they're like, oh, you're just like structural institutional church light. Like, alright, shut up. Like, we're just a but but like, I think it's it's this belief that, like, aren't we all and I'll I'll say this actually. Like, doesn't everybody have the holy spirit? Sure. But it doesn't mean that everybody is gifted in the same way. Right. And it doesn't mean everybody's responsible. Right. There's a Yes. And and, like, I think the scripture is pretty clear. Somebody has a responsibility for groups of people. And like I don't know where else in the world in any situation where you've gone, every communal people communally just handle their own affairs and don't require any guidance. Like it's garbage. I've never seen that work. Yeah. The metaphor that people are sheep are kinda hard to take it if they're all, like, business sheep who

Yeah. Yeah. Who runs or entrepreneurial business sheep. It's fantastic. Well, Paul said if they they have to get to leadership, let them lead. Yeah. Yeah. Right. There's an action being done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And plenty of letters to go like, hey. This is specifically how you are to lead. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then god going, you're gonna stand account. You know? Yeah. Right. Exactly. The responsibility piece of like, hey. This is a gathering, but there's absolutely the the dude. Like, there's a guy that I'm gonna come down and be like, you're the one who's answering for this. Yeah. It's like, oh shoot, this guy's got more skin in the game. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you still like, this came up as a lot when we were talking through in the recent like Revelation class we were doing, like, but your leading

looks like Jesus leading, which means you're sacrificing, which means you're loving, which means you're, like Authoritative power doesn't make sense. Yeah. And so, like, just because someone could get it wrong, just it's the same thing when you talk about biblical headship and you're, like, submission and all this jazz. Okay, like no one means the turd. Right. Like if you're a turd, then you're doing it wrong. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that someone doesn't take responsibility. That's really what most of those things are. They're all responsibility issues. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Number eight, the church is a democracy. Some assume the church functions like a political system where every voice carries equal authority, but the New Testament never models mob rule unnecessary Instead,

Christ gave leadership healthy leaders collaborate and honor one another. Spiritual authority is rooted in biblical qualifications and calling not popularity contests. Here's the thing, is the more often, like, it shows up where people are trying to get a democracy, We don't get a chance to practice humility. Leaders over non democratic institutions

have to demonstrate and should be called to demonstrate humility. Is not just their preference. It has to go with like, you know, what serves the people around here the And if you don't get a voice and that's not acceptable to you, that's a humility problem. You're like, my vote has to be heard. I have to have a formal way of placing my marker on the board. Like, again, what we're trying to do is manage what are ultimate, like, sin issues, like pride, arrogance Yes. Right. Like bad leadership or whatever. And, like, democracy tries to let it go. At least there's rules to it. But the church but the church doesn't accept that. Yeah, right. Like those have to die. We don't do a ruled structure. We just go, no, we have to stop acting like this. Yes, right. And we've got a solid truth to stand on that goes this is the right moves anyway. And so Dan, I think like, stop me if I get this wrong, right? But if I think about the first decade of your, of Pathway,

so like a lot of the ways that churches try to handle this is like pastors and elders, right? Elders become in some ways like voting bodies of people to try to help govern the thing. Dan went, like it was, a decade without formal elders here. Yeah. I I was a single elder. Yes. Like, just really just one. Right? Yeah. So But we had a a leadership team Right. That I gave much respect to. Yes. But but if push came to shove, I would make a decision. Yes. Right. Right. And is there wisdom in having people, like like, some sort of recognition of people around you who've, like you said, I'm this person can call me to account. Yeah. Sure. Because like power and influence have risks to them, and for heaven's sakes, you want Yeah. So we all have blind spots. Yes. Exactly right. That's right. But like that would have been a contentious thing for many churches, denominations probably more specifically about not having elders like, well, he's gonna go off the reservation and do whatever he wants. Dan did do whatever he wants, and what he wanted to do was serve the people. Right. So that's what happened. Alright. Number nine, the church is either local or global, not both. Some believers overemphasize the local flock. I really, I'll tell you this, I don't know why this occurred to me today. I hate the use of the word flock.

And I know the biblical concept, but I really hate it. And I think it's because like culturally, people who don't care anything about the church, the like, they'll use casual references like, hey. How's the flock? And I hate that. I just really hate it. I've never had anyone say that, Ben. Well, wouldn't say it. But it's, like, happened to like, you see it in movies and stuff where people refer to it like the flock. I hate anyway, just know that if you hear it You're just hating something that Hollywood has created in your life potentially? Something wrong with you. It made me mad earlier today for I don't even know who said it. How's the flock?

I'm glad that no one has ever asked me that question. Anyway, while others focus solely on global mission, I don't know that this is a problem. I've never heard of that. Yeah. Like the differentiation between the local and global church? Like or where people are going. No. I could see where the balance of, hey. Like, you're sending all our money to Indonesia, and there's families who here who need lunch or something. Like, that seems like a good conversation to have. Right. It's a both In the book, actually, like, this is weird because it seemed like if your job was to if you if you know a thing, let's say that they're giving away free $20 to everybody who shows up to this booth and says, hey. I'm here to claim my $20. Yeah. Right? Word tend to tends to spread on the perimeter. So, like, the guys in the middle already know. They tell people on the outside. And as the word spread, just keeps whoever's on the edge continues to tell more people until, like, hey, there's free $20 over there. You should go get it. And, like, when the time of acts in the bible is being written about how Christianity is being spread, this is exactly how it's working. Right? They're like, hey, there's no one on the edge. We should send people to the edge. And then they will tell more people. Right? And then but like, let's say once the whole world knows, like the attack's different. Like so like acts isn't really speaking to this quite well because it was like a drop in the water and then the and then the waves kinda kinda went out from there. But once, like, we live in a global society with global communication. Now you're like, well, what is global missions used to be we need people on the edge. Yeah. Just gotta send them to the perimeter because, like, those people know, those people don't. So whoever doesn't, oh, we just need to push out more and tell more people that you know, to know. And so, like, there are parts of the world like like the 8020 window that this is still very much true,

like, where mission mission work is is is, like, still valuable, important, and we need to be doing it. Right? But, like Hey. Welcome back to Life From The Path. Hey, everybody. Sorry, if you were watching on the YouTube, we I made a tactical error, and the tactical error was that I reached to go modify a camera, that's the one that's pointing up in the sky right now, and I knocked it over, hit the computer, the audio computer, and broke the whole thing. Yeah. And so what's interesting, though, is as a solution to this particular issue, I I we are no longer broadcasting on YouTube tonight, but it is our Facebook broadcast, which we haven't done in forever. Oh. And so, anyway, welcome welcome Facebook to Life From The Path. To those 60 crowd.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey there, Facebook. This is how you reel them back in? We're excited to see you. So, anyway, like, I I don't know like, I think we're done. We were talking about an article where, like, just misunderstandings of what the church is. Just insert generic life from the path 10 article of which we reboot and rebunk 10 things that someone has written. Good point. Ben said no less than three times unnecessary semicolons. There were a lot of semicolons in there. It was One completely point of you remarked, what is this guy being paid by the semicolon? I did say that, yeah. Which is a very fun thing that I do intend to put on a shirt. You seem reasonable. Okay, but that dovetailed into just a question around, I'd read a post by someone today and it was basically like

they were at a church community, they were in a church, and they had some disagreements with the leadership of the church. There was a question around, Hey, is this pastor, I don't know, like, do they treat their kids well? Do they talk behind people's back? Are they upset that there's, like, little kids in the service? All kinds of things where they're like, hey, I'm not sure this is the right that atrocious leader. Some of the things came up because of inconsistency in either attending worship or some of the things that the people were doing at the church.

And then there was, I think, a question of, Well, what do you do about it? And eventually this person just I read it on Facebook today. It was long, and it had like pictures, screenshots of text messages and all kinds of things. And I read it and I thought like, wow, this doesn't feel right. Like on multiple levels, this reaction didn't feel right. Either the forum of which we're talking about it, is it clear, like did they go about the kind of the right steps before you just kind of But blasted the it brings up, I think, couple interesting questions. Like, is,

as we think about can churches, can communities of people act, you know, can you get church hurt? Yeah, I think that's probably true. For sure. What do you do about if you don't feel like the people leading the church, the pastor, whoever, are following Jesus, how do you react to that? Mhmm. In con like how broad do you have those types of conversations? How do you recognize kind of the distinction between disagreements that you have that are for you and disagreements that belong, you know, in some kind of type of wider audience? Sure. And then for people who've had that happen, like, should you think about that? Because there are times, I think this person had mentioned that in disassociating

from that congregation, now they're not going anywhere. And I think we do see that quite a bit where like people take some place of being harmed or a belief that they were harmed within a community and it keeps them from joining others. Sure. And so, anyway, I'd like that's the thing I wanna talk about. So maybe let's start with, like, is there a point of which you go, hey, I shouldn't keep going here because of some sort of issue with with a leadership or something like that. Like, how how do you know when that's true, when that's the case?

Okay. I'm just gonna fire this out as the opening gambit because it's like, I was I was had something similar to this recently where I'm like, something was happening in a church, I and was sitting there, and I was angry about it. Mhmm. I didn't like it. And I started praying, and I'm like, God, you have to help me know whether this is your anger or mine. Sure. Yeah. Because if it was mine, I need you to help me to see this right. If it's your anger, then you're gonna have to help me figure out what to do in response. Either way, it feels like God's church, God's response. Right? Very similar to to David's approach to to Saul. Right? Like, you brought him in as king. You take him out. Mhmm. It's not gonna be me that oversteps what you've done or what you've allowed

or what you're what you have have pressed forward as your king. If you want him usurped, you're gonna have to do it. And and, like so the reason I say that is is not because I probably nailed that situation correctly, but, like, the first question is is God's question. The first question is involving the Lord to deal with Right? This. And so, like, I think that's that's a number one. If it's your own personal offense, either god's like, look. You gotta toughen it up. Right? Like, yeah. People are messed up and broken, and they're not gonna nail it a 100% of the time. That's why the word grace exists.

So do you need to bring it up, or do you need to calm down about it? One of those two things can be true. And so, like, the first question is to him. The first question goes to him. You gotta help my heart be right so I can help other people. You can't give him something you don't have. And if you don't have a right heart, then you can't go firing in with with beans full of nothing. Yeah. And that goes back to, like, the article that happened before we kinda cut onto the Facebook, which is, like, all kinds of things. Like, this this the asking Yahweh is the thing that keeps you from church shopping like a consumerist. Yeah. Sure. Right. Like, like, thinking that you can bow outside of this situation that he's otherwise created. Like if you're listening to Yahweh and submitting it to him, then it becomes far less about you, and you're just doing his work in whatever circumstance it is, whether it's inside that community or not. Correct. So and and like, I mean, this is pretty classic. Right? Like, not my will, but yours. And and our goal is to be undefendable unoffendable

Yeah. Because we don't have a kingdom to to protect. Right? It's his kingdom to protect, and it's ours to worship and be part of. And so, so if people want to destroy the kingdom of Mike, I go, I don't know. That kingdom wasn't worth nothing anyway. So destroy away. Right? But Yahweh's kingdom, that's His to defend, and He will move troops as necessary, and He will give you words when you need to speak them, And and he will give you peace when peace is not able to be found because you're going to long suffer this thing and do his work there anyway. Yeah. And so, like, all those things feel like long conversations that get handed over to him. That's the first one. Yeah. I feel like there's never been a situation in my life where God hasn't just been like, yeah, you're sticking through it. Like, you're flat out taking through it. You're like, you don't run. You don't run-in this. Like, these people need somebody that's there that, like, can't get sucked in by all the gunk and is willing to just be like, hey, you're gonna call some crap out. Like they're not gonna sit there and go, oh, I'm just gonna be quiet about this whole situation entirely. But like you don't run. You don't get there. Now that's not what I would prescribe as saying is for everybody, but just like Mike's saying, like that was prayerful. As a matter of fact, that was fights. Like that was flat out like, Lord, I don't know. Like I

want to go. Like I want to be done with this. And I just I could not shake the feeling that God was going, I do not have you walking from this. Like I do not have you run. I know how much you want to walk from this and I know how much you wanna be done with this but like you're here to do what I'm telling you and I'm telling you this. So what are the situations in which, maybe we have to answer first, alright, you think you have a problem. Sure, yeah. Pastor

is not behaving the way that you want, I think the example we gave, we were talking before about the show a little bit, like, I don't know, let's say pastor just smacks his kids in the face, says it's totally fine, This is the right way to discipline kids, you're like, I mean, it's not a doctrinal error per se, not saying that it's okay to smack your kids, I'm just saying like, it's not like they got up there and like taught a bunch of things, they're not teaching people to do it. Just find out that they're doing it. Yep. Right? And so Lifestyle issues. Yeah, yeah, it's a lifestyle issue related to them. Or you think they're, I mean, could be like they're acting hypocritically and not leading people well as an example of their life, not necessarily the words that you're using. Okay, so let's say you find something like that out. The Bible's got, like, I don't know, processes for this, like what are they? What do you do first? Go to them, personally, Yeah, on you gotta go talk to them. I think that's part of being in a community that we've talked about so far is like, you got skin in the game. Yeah. But you absolutely got skin in the game of this person's life more than just being a consumer of their teaching or a consumer of their

brand of leadership. Like you're involved and part of that means you get in when this kind of stuff happens. You start having a conversation. It takes some wisdom in that too. I mean Oh, of course. Go go in a loving spirit. Be truthful. Be honest. Be firm. You you don't just go in there and start, you know getting a good player and stuff. You're an idiot. You're terrible. You're alright. You know, put them on the defense right away. Have an adult conversation. Human being you're talking to. Yeah. Yeah. Just, hey, man. I got some concerns. Can we talk about it? And Well, I think the biggest things to recognize is like it is a loving thing you're doing. Like I think that's one of the biggest things that I would probably make a mistake on it is

going, there is a correction that needs to happen here but the correction is out of love. Like I love you and I think that this is a problem, and because I love you and want to be like in community with you, like let's seek this,

let's seek God in this and here's what I think, let's talk. Yeah, and that goes back to the conversation we were having last week which is like pastors failing blows up churches, well those aren't communities. Like the example I gave was I could fail in a lot of the ways that other pastors are failing, and my community not only doesn't blow up, they probably surround me. And I don't get to keep teaching there necessarily, but I'm not going anywhere because these people love me. It's not like them versus me, pastor versus congregant, like it's not a community of if it's that way. So, yeah, yeah, so first thing, like, and this isn't just even pastoral, means like everybody Disgrace. Right. You gotta talk

to them first. Yeah, you get to look Christ like in that scenario to this person who has wronged you or wronged someone else in this community. Yeah. Think I think it's important to not go in emotionally charged, just, I guess, the root of what I was saying before. It's like, don't know how many times as a child I remember, like, my mom coming out of a grocery store, and and maybe the clerk was rude, and, like, I am never going to that store again. You know, it's like, well, there's one other choice in town. So, know, two weeks later, we're Doctor. Red Owl getting crackers. And so we just have to be careful

that we're not overreacting, which goes back to a calm adult conversation. It could be very accurate. Maybe it is time to go, but go for reasons, not because you're just Yeah. Ticked Yeah.

There's reason to this. So you're gonna go, You're gonna talk to them. Yeah. And they go, look. I think it's perfectly fine. Smack the old kids around. I think he's gotta discipline. Gotta have the discipline. But biblically says, what's the next step? You go get a couple more people. Yeah. Yeah. You go with witnesses. Now hold on. The the order's important. Right? Because what what what when it says you need to go talk to them personally, that precludes the fact that you did not also talk to 20 other people before you went and talked to them personally. That's right. Right? Like, you created some kind of gossip wheel. Like and you're like, that's strong. I just needed support. That's okay. You can get support from, like, one person. This is the same way we look at accountability groups. Uh-huh. Right? Like, you need people that you can tell honest, hard things to. Yeah. And that doesn't mean it's 20 people. Right. Because now it's just lewd. Yeah. It's drawing trench into yourself. Yeah. And, like, you're not trying to burn sin in the streets. You're trying to gain sympathy. Mhmm. And this is not healthy for you, and it's not healthy for resolving an issue. So, like Yep. When it says you go talk to somebody, that means you and, like, your friend or your counselor or your spouse or something. Like, not you and 20 people that you've already told who are with bated breath awaiting to see how your meeting went. Sure. That's not healthy. Right? So, like, yeah, you had that one on one or two two talking to two other people, whatever. It didn't go very well. And they're not seeing it biblically, and they're not seeing it the way that Jesus says. So you say, okay. Let me get two other trusted people who will also act calmly and care more about God's kingdom than their own kingdom, and we're gonna try this conversation again. Because you're still seeking reconciliation

through grace. Yeah. Like, that's that's what you're doing That's the whole. That's why that's why it's so important to, like, there's there's a there's a very real, like, God pattern here that is established from the, like, you get to go have that small conversation because, like, what a joy it is that you've won back a brother. Yeah. Like, what a joy it is that you've won back a brother in reconciliation, that both of you can come to it and go, we wanna be Christ like, and based off of the truth that I know that we're standing on that is the word of God, I've I've won back a brother in this, and now we're in community again, and offense is is is forgiven, and mercy is abounding. Maybe I completely misunderstood what was happening. Right. And then if that's not the situation Yeah. Again, you're not going to, alright, mob style, let's grab as many people as we can. It's no. In order to, hey, if we can't do this, I'm gonna grab a few trusted. Well, and and like part of the value is going to, you know, find some other people to go with you is, like, once you tell those people the situation, they might go, dude, you're taking it in wrong. Yeah. Totally. Yes. Like, you're overreacting or, you know, did you deal with what like, what the

almost always when I'm faced with some sort of confrontation that someone's talked to me about and they're probably coming in to try to get me to be the heavy Sure. Is to go, look, what part of what they said is true? Yeah. Totally. If you if if That's a great tactic. Never been in a situation where someone has a complaint against somebody else where there wasn't like, if you couldn't tell me at least one thing that they were getting at, like, if you were to explain their problem in the best possible light, and if there anything that they're saying that's true. And if you can't think of any one of those things, you're probably lying to Yeah. You're on a tirade. Yeah. And so anyway, like, hey, this guy's really making me mad. As a matter of fact, I got you guys are frustrating. Like, if I go tell you because I'm getting irritated about something, like, I would say eight out of 10, you guys are like, nah. Are you sure you're taking you're not taking that in right, dude? Yeah. Right. Yep. And I'm like, dang it. I just wanna be man for a minute. Yeah. Right. Right. There there there are so many times that, like, you don't have all the information. Oh, totally. Come from the leader point of view. Right? Yep. Someone comes to the leader like, man, I'm really upset. I saw this happen and that happened and that happened. And, like, you don't know the other three things that are happening that we can't say out loud. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, it involves maybe a marriage just falling apart or or, you know, whatever. Like job got lost or Yeah. We can't I can't tell you what what's going on.

And and we still can't, but just trust us. You know, sometimes you have to have that conversation, and then they can decide to or not. But so I have been in those situations where people are feeling like, I don't have all the information. Well, that You do not. This is correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's for protection of some people. Yeah. So let's say it's legitimate. They're smacking their kids around, and you try to talk to them, and then you talk to the other people, and they everyone tries to go talk. Like, three three, four people try to go talk to this person, he's like, nah. I think it's totally right. In that case, what do you do? Community. Full. Grab the full community. Everybody. Yeah. Because at that point in time, like, in in this is one of the things that I love about this structure is that you've given you've given every chance. You've given every chance up to this point for that person to be reconciled in quiet, in in secret, if you will. With dignity. Yeah. With dignity. You didn't drag him through the courts. The judge didn't need to get involved and hit down a gavel. You just went, hey. Like, from reconciling a brother, gaining a brother back, we've done this thing. Yep. We tried you and I, didn't work. We tried you and I, a couple friends. Witnesses that we can all trust are are are following Christ, pursuing

godliness and holiness in this, and our pursuing love abounding through all of it, grace and mercy involved, and it's still nothing, then that's when community gets involved because the whole community comes together and goes, this is this is now becoming a festering piece. That's like, it affects us as a community. Okay. Because it absolutely will. Just a quick pause because Ben keeps throwing around the phrase smacking his kids around. Yeah. Right? Like, this doesn't apply for criminal offenses. Oh, yeah. Just turn them immediately. Right. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So, like, just realize that like if you're hearing this on the backside of the conversation, just need you to realize that like if we're talking about like domestic violence Oh, Yeah. Yeah. Abuse or whatever. Like this this is not a church discipline problem. Like you broke a law It's criminal. It's criminal. Like we're calling somebody, like, legitimately broke laws here, you get law involved. You call the police, like, like, right now. And guess what you do? You go to the prison and meet them. Yes. And, like, you can still you can still be friends with them and, like, you can still love them through their their mistakes that they've made and and god still offers grace. But, like, at the end of the day, we don't cover up crimes. No. Yeah. Absolutely. And we don't bury, like, for the church's, like, good name. We don't bury bad stuff. Right? We turn them in right now. Yeah. I've had somebody throw that in my face and go, hey, man. I told you something in confidence. I'm like, that's not how that works for that kind of thing, friend. Like, you broke a law, so I went to law. I I can't remember. There's there's been, like, all kinds of people. They came from a rough life. They did some rough things. Yeah. Right? And, like, they have they they they wanted to run from the consequences, but they didn't really wanna change, like, their actions. Right? And like, my advice has always been just turn yourself in. Oh, totally. Go to the place that you stole from and tell them you did it. Go to the people that you wronged and tell them that you did it. Go to the police department right now and say, I'm guilty of this thing. Like, like, our advice as as people who follow God is we live out loud Yep. And bright. And so, like, you don't ever get to hide anything. Your crimes, your secrets, whatever you think people don't know, like, it will ultimately like, the Bible says this, like like, all things come to light. And so, like, there's nothing that you're gonna hide. And anybody who tells you they will hide things on your behalf or give you advice that you should hide things, they're not they don't have God's kingdom in mind. They have their own, and they're trying to protect you and your kingdom. And the thing is, God's asking yours to die. Yeah. And so, like, when we submit

to the things that God has us because it's ultimate that's what freedom looks like and feels like. And so, like, just to just to pinch point that real Sorry. Good point. Sorry. That's my that's my bad. I should have been clear about that. Okay. Okay. So I think the the roll up point is is that, like, yeah. I mean, the Bible is, like, recognizes that these things can happen. You gave the ability to, like, resolve it on your own without telling everybody in the world. Like, you wanna sniff test with someone. Am I thinking about this right? Okay, good. Those are the same people that you're gonna bring back and have the same conversation with their brother, whether it's a pastor or otherwise, and you're gonna have this conversation. If they refuse, then it's gonna become the church like the broad community. Now this is not like a banner outside No. Thing. Like, this is still This is not this three churches down the road. Yes. Because the point is still reconciliation. So, like, if you're approaching any of these things like, I'm right, they suck, and they need to know it, then, your heart's not right for reconciliation.

And you're the one who's actually keep if you can't look with like a even though they're your even though they're your pastor or your youth leader or whoever it is, like these are still human beings fallible who follow Jesus and sometimes get it wrong. And so, your job is not to lord over them the desire to say, I want to prove to you that you're wrong. It's to see a brother or sister who is wrong, like who's going through a rough time and like getting it wrong and missing Jesus and this relationship in the process and trying to reconcile that. Right. And like sometimes you get hurt about something and like you actually can't handle it very well. Uh-huh. You were not in the space to address these types of things and like you gotta back out of it until you can. Like, you you you don't get to go in and like handle the reconciliation wrong. And like, I'm not saying that you can't be legitimately hurt. Christian. Like, this is people are fully capable of doing this. We do it in our relationships, our marriages. We do it in our, like, friends. We do it in the churches. Right? Because, like, anytime you give someone

the ability to see you more raw, you run the risk that they're not going to handle it well. Totally. And like, I will present to you that like, someone will always let you down in this matter. Like, it's why like your marriages can be like, so you're like, how could you treat as a spouse, Like, you treat friends better than you treat your spouse. It's because you opened yourself up further to your spouse, and so they have the ability and the access to harm you and cause damage in your life simply by their own fallibility in ways that they cannot harm other people. And, like, it's just a risk that comes with intimacy and closeness and stuff, and so it happens in in all kinds of relationships. And so you gotta figure out how to reconcile and to how to work through them. But, like so so anyway, like but you have to do it right. There's a way to do it correct. And if you to have step away from a from a situation because you can't do it right, that's fine. Yeah. Absolutely. You do have to make your way back to it. Mhmm. And in protection, like, maybe you have to find other ways to handle. This is why the community and the group is important. But anyway, so there's ways to go do it. Right? Yeah. And it's not so the thing that I read was like a letter to the public.

Yeah. Like reaffirming the thing that we just said, which is like, you're not we're not covering things up here. The crimes are crimes or whatever. But like public is almost unless it's a crime, I I it's not a value to the forum, that's more about you. Right. Like, that's not the local community, that's not like your direct three or four people who might actually care about this person, like that is, that's you. Yeah. And so I I would almost always prescribe that that's like, it's one, it's probably out of context. Two, it's not a conversation where everybody gets to, like, show their sides, and everybody's lying whether they intend to or not. They're just misrepresenting the situation colored by whatever their own bias, their own hurt, or whatever. So, like, you just can't get a fair shake in a public forum like that. It's not productive to the is that this is not just the church. Like, don't don't adjudicate your marriages or your friendships in the same manner. Don't do it. In fact, I would prescribe the same actual pattern in almost all relationships you have. Right. And almost none of them belong as a public letter in some sort of social media forum. Yeah. Again, there's a difference between being a whistleblower on, like, legitimate crime Yeah. Yeah. Versus, like someone has relationally

affronted. Yes. So, okay. So there's a way to do it. But and there's there's times when like if this doesn't work, if nothing changes and like then you don't, then you go. Yeah. Then you go. And like it's sad. It should it's a sad thing where that has to be the case. But, like, if you followed all the things and, like, Yahweh's telling you to go, then you go. Yeah. Because, again, if you bring this to the community and, like, the community unhealthily handles this, that's that's rough to hold on to. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if there's legitimate offense happening in, like, a whole community of people, and and you you you have gone through the right avenues here to make certain that this is not just an emotional reaction of yours, it is not a situation where you're misrepresenting, one part of hurt. Mhmm. Right? Because that can happen. This is not just your heart being broken and you not running through the right the right, you know, forums here to get this taken care of. If you brought this up and, like, the community then goes, we're not dealing with this at all, and, like, they they take x's side,

that makes sense to me to walk away. Yeah. That makes sense to me to walk away at that point in time because then it's an unhealthy situation for you to even be stuck into that. I've yet to ever see that happen, though. Yeah. I've never seen that followed with that prescription, and it ended up being, yeah, that was an unhealthy community that I had to step away from. Yeah. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I've never seen it like Okay. So that let's say so you maybe you went through the right process, like the things the Bible's asking you to do to check for all these things. Like, it's not a process like God's like, I like to see processes followed. These are right things to make sure you're thinking right, that his church is built up, that his church is reconciled, like, these that's why they are what they are. Because it's a right understanding of your relationship with other people, but then your relationship with other people in light of what you get from your relationship with God. Yeah. Like, it's the concept of understanding forgiveness because you have been forgiven. Yeah. And, like, God looked at you and went, ah, sin no more. Like, I yeah. I'm gonna take this from you, and I will absolutely I will not, like, make it so that my my wrath isn't existent anymore. I will just put it on someone else, myself, as a matter of fact. Yeah. And actually, think this is by going through those three kind of distinct steps, the other thing that allows you to do is that, like, if you have to walk away from that situation,

you can do so where, like, you know very clearly, you have a very clear sense that this is a person and community of which is to be mourned over and prayed over, not but heard about once Oh, you're totally. Yes. Right. Because, like, if you skip those particular steps off a particular interaction or just talking with the one person and not handling it in the other ways, it's going to be a personal offense. You're going to be angry about it, and you're gonna spread that around in the other church relationships or other things that you have because you didn't find a resolution. Yeah. But like, I mean, you guys have probably all had this in situations where like you've got a problem and someone needs help, and they've refused your help multiple times in multiple ways. And then I get to walk away not feeling guilty where I go, if only I could have done a little bit more. I had someone try to guilt me over this one time. They're like, hey. If someone were to it was someone who was, like, threatening to harm themselves. And they're like, you're gonna feel bad if this thing happens. And I'm gonna I said, I'm gonna mourn that for sure. If something like if someone takes an action against themselves, of course, I will. But am I gonna feel guilt for the rest of my life?

In that situation, I was not going to because, like, I had taken many, many steps, and this person just did not want it. They refused it Yep. Multiple times, and I said that would be awful Mhmm. And sad. Tragedy. But am I gonna wear a weight around my neck for that for the rest of my life? I'm not going to. Yeah. There's a difference between mourning and then feeling guilty forever. Yes. And so this so but just it's just an emotion as a tool, and so think about, like, your anger is the same thing. If you follow the proper things, you can go, I have every confidence that God told me to move on from this situation, and I followed the things that he told me to do to make sure that I wasn't biasing it or that we didn't have an opportunity for reconciliation. And so if I have to leave it, I'm yes. I'm probably mourning that, but I'm not angry. And I don't go, I can't trust anybody ever again because I recognize that the problem actually wasn't me. Right. There was a community of people and there's something fundamentally broken there. What do I see? When I see that like wrongness has taken over a body of people who claim to follow Jesus, then I fight that in prayer and I fight that in, like, trying to be part of wreck like fixing that or, like, praying against it if I'm away from the situation. But what I don't do is then take whatever anger that never got resolved or disassociated for me and, like, I just

spit it out on every relationship that I have or go, I can't interact with the church again. Well, why not? What does it have like, you found a very clear false teaching or false leadership or whatever. Like, what does that have to do with every other church situation going on in It's the you, but like you had time to segment it out because you followed it. If you don't do that, it ends up being a, well, the whole thing is screwed up, and you have no evidence to that. I distrust the entire institution now. Yes. That's right. And so I think that that is one of the risks, and we do like, I do find that a lot. People who have, like, I've been to churches, the church hurt me, and now I don't go to church anymore, like, holistically. Like, here's the deal. Manipulative communities are awful. They're they're they're most pernicious. And they absolutely exist. Because because it does it isn't bullying you because then it's not just, like, you and a conflict personality with some leader or somebody somewhere. It's, like, you and then the whole community, if they if if it's, like, a false teaching or a false, like, bullying community like that, it can be like 50 against one. Mhmm. So, like, you get ostracized, and like, I totally get why this happens. But again, you follow the steps so that you get to go, look, I know the odds are not, like, are against me here, but like all 75 of you are wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And I followed this thing to try to make sure that was the case. But, like, to Bouba's point, I've not actually seen that, like, maybe once. Yeah. Right. It exists.

Has happened. But I certainly have not seen that as as as par for the course ever. Yeah. I mean, the thing is is, like, you this is this is a a personal pursuit of holiness thing Yeah. Where, like, you might be the guy that calls 75 people wrong. Totally. And you might be right. Yep. Right? But, like, it has to be him. It has to be his it has to be his offense, his hurt, and his justice that that like like, Jesus did this. Jesus walked up to 75 pharisees and said Right. All of you are wrong. And what a pride to be able to walk up to that and go, I know. I know full well I followed the right paths, and I pursued love in every single one of these things. I pursued reconciliation. I pursued mercy, grace, and love in this, and I walked with integrity and with my god. And, like, my safety wasn't in, oh, these people didn't hurt me. My safety was in, oh, he had me the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it really is a conversation of humility and strength, and both of those get served right out of the father's hands. And what a way to look like Jesus. Seriously. Like, that you get to be that. Yeah. Like, what a calling that you get to be that to a group of people and show them what actual love looks like. Because here's the deal. You may be ostracized by that community, but there's gotta be something that community looks at and goes, hey, remember that that that situation?

Like, we screwed that up, and now that person has shown us Christ. Yeah. I will say, like, the the easiest way for, like, people who are actively trying to follow Jesus is when someone shows up acting like Jesus when you're wrong, you feel it. Oh, boy. Right. They're like, hey. Intending to manipulate you. They're intending to, like, cover up the fallibilities of their own by otherwise making it look like it's you. But when you handle it like Jesus did, which goes like, he provides almost no defense across the board against

the accusations that are levied against him. He just points people back to, like, this is what God has me doing. Like and, like, whatever you're doing, I'm agreeing to. Yeah. Like, I'm allowing this trouble to come my way because to otherwise reveal the things that you're doing that are wrong. And like, people acting like Jesus in especially in false situations, end up calling other people to account. And so I That's know listen to me. I know that this is super hard because, like, what it feels like is to say, like, I'm being done wrong, and you're asking me to, like, I don't get to kinda, like, grouse about it. I don't get to proclaim the the need for justice. Uh-huh. Yeah. If I have to do the thing like, here's the thing. This is where the stuff that Jesus calls you to, like, comes to fruition. Uh-huh. Jesus is, like, 70 times seven, and you're like, I can't get past one. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, so so I'm not I'm not saying it's not hard, but, like, this this is gonna be a bad this is gonna feel like a really bad example, but it's the phrase that just sticks with me. Is it it's like maybe we've talked about this. You've still not seen It's a Wonderful Life? No. Okay. In in in oh, no. It's not It's a Wonderful Life. It's a it's a different it's a different movie. It's mister Smith goes to Washington. Have you seen that? No idea. Oh, for heaven's sakes.

Okay. Anyway, he goes You don't have to say this only to me. We have we have many other listeners. I'm disappointed in all of you. So Jimmy Stewart's and mister Smith goes to Washington. And he's like some senator dies. He gets appointed, and he's like a rube. He's like a mister idealistic about America. Yeah. Okay? And so he shows up, and, like, they meant to just they appointed him so that he'd stay out of the way because there were some other like, a a senator and, like, this kind of corporate machine who's doing some land graft. And they're like Sure. This this white eyed dude is never gonna know, and so stick him doing other things. K? And so, anyway, through various events, he kinda catches on to this scheme. And, course, he's gonna gonna have none of it. Yeah. Because he's he's wide eyed mister America. And so now this this corporate machine and the senator are having to fight back on him. And so the the senator who's in the pocket of the corporate machine goes, like, trying to convince him, like, I don't know. Maybe we should just kinda give this up. And the corporate the corporate machine dude, the guy who's, like, running this big political mechanism,

he goes, this is this is the works, Joe. That's the name of the senator. He's like, either we're out of business or we're bigger than ever. Like and the reason this sticks with me, even though it's totally wrong because it's for, like, a land graft, is like, this is where the rubber meets the road right now. Like, either either everything we believed is completely bogus and we gotta get out of it, or this is where we are fully what we're ever called to be. Yep. Right? And so the land grafter got it right. As he looks at the people where where forgiveness is actually owed and it's the hardest freaking thing in the world, and it goes, look, if the things that Jesus prescribes don't work here, they don't work anywhere. If

we're not supposed to be forgiveness in the face of fallible church leaders and fallible church communities, and like this is the time where you go, I still forgive that, and I'm still after reconciliation. Like, if it's not then, then it's nowhere. Right. This is the works, Joe. Either we're bigger than before or we're out of business. Yeah. And I think one of the one of the things that I would I would call out here in this piece is you insert random person here that's running into this, you are incapable of this on your own. Like you are incapable of this unless you are walking with Christ. Yeah. Like you are let let me embolden you, brother or sister in Christ, that if you are walking humbly with the spirit, that makes things like this possible. Mhmm. The kind of things that Jesus calls us to throughout his ministry, his life, the kinds of things that God calls us to as acting like him and being his image bearers in this world, you cannot cannot do unless you are walking with him. But if you are walking with him, you are capable of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You are capable of this kind of thing. That kind of forgiveness that makes no sense, but makes Jesus shine.

That kind of thing you are capable of if you're walking with Christ. Like, this is a hard thing. We will never deny that fact. But like, you're not being called to something that God isn't willing to just sit there with you in it. And like, it's all glory to him. It's not glory to you, let your kingdom die, walk in his, and this kind of stuff just shines, and it's beautiful. Yeah. Because this is the kind of thing that you go, how do I tell people about Jesus? You act like this. Yeah. So to sum it up, and this goes a little bit to the article we were talking about before, is like, one, it's fallible people will whether they're church leaders or people in churches or you Yep. Will have these types of situations come up. There is a biblical way to go about it, and it's not just for, hey, like if you think about the progressive groups of people getting bigger, that is also for your refinement as the person who's accusing of things going discerning people help make sure the right conversations are going on. Is there a point of which, like, someone is refusing to repent, and, they're misleading you, misleading the church, and, like, or the community is kinda poisonous? Yeah. It can happen. I would say I would that's why you're triple checking it, because a lot people come to that conclusion

because they didn't like the behavior of a person at some point, and they didn't like the initial reaction that they got when they tried to gossip about it to somebody else. Not saying that's you if it happened. I'm just saying like, I've seen that a Totally. And your ability to discern that when you're hurt is very, very hard. Yep. And so you gotta trust people around you to kinda help you walk through that. There's a reason God puts the layers in it that he does. As as we go back to the article, is it okay for you to completely bail from the from God's community because you've been hurt by one? No. That's not okay. No. That's the time when you need more of God's community. Yep. Yep. That's a successful separation. Bad things happen in isolation.

Things jack with your mind. They get they allow you to believe and reinforce things that you thought were true in a rough situation, and they become more true in your mind because there's nothing to push back and force you to reconcile with it. It's the same thing you have with political parties. You can be like, oh, that entire political party just sucks. Everything they believe is terrible and they're heartless. Right? And then you gotta go but if you had dinner with folks from another side twice a week, you would go, that's not right. Now I have a much more complicated situation to deal with, and that's been always been true. Your ability to bucket those things off. And so it's not okay to stay off it. So, you know, does it mean that you sometimes you you have to try other church communities? Yeah. Is it a risk? Of course. Intimate relationships with people is a risk. Marriages, friendships, churches, for sure. But like it's also not all about you. Sometimes you're served. You're there to serve. And some of your services being able to reflect some of the situation that you've gone on. Is stuff gonna go your way? No. You need to have some humility that like it's not a church made in your image. So And you gotta be willing to submit to that. Yep. Your fallibilities are also on display, and your church is gonna have like the people you're surrounding yourself with are gonna have to deal with that too. And so I think it's if if you're a person on the sidelines from the kingdom where you're like, could follow God, but I don't have to be a part of this, I'm just telling you that, like, that's this is your call to, like, no. That's not gonna be right. And maybe you didn't handle the situation you left. You need to go reconcile that. Mhmm. It'll it's for you too. If it's even if they reject it or whatever, but, like, in humility, you go, I didn't handle this the best, but I was hurt, and here's the reasons I was hurt. And then so you can see what reaction you get.

But it's not it's not on do not wait or expect for all these other fallible human beings to be the reason you are encouraged. It may not be. Your attempt to reconcile may fail, but it's not a fail because you did the thing Jesus asked you to do. You forgave. You attempted in humility to kinda set things right, and if people don't want it, they don't But, like, God is your backer here. Jesus is the one that's with you. He's the one who called you to do a thing. Like, it's not actually where you're like, the church hurt me. He's the one who said to forgive. Mhmm. Your problem is with Jesus. And, like, we we want we like, oftentimes, people who are critical, like, got hurt by the church. Like, Jesus is the one who's directing your reaction to it. And so, anyway, I know it's hard. I know you might be hurt. Don't be surprised that that frail humans make frail bad decisions.

Sometimes communities can be poisonous. Oftentimes it's actually, I would make sure it's not you. Follow the steps, the process that he outlines, because it's for refinement. And if it doesn't work out, like, you gotta find somewhere else. You gotta find another group of people who can help you heal from the thing, who get to have you contribute to, but you also get to be shaped and molded by. And so, like, sidelines is not a good option for you. It's it's it's harmful for the kingdom, and it's harmful for you personally. So that's our encouragement. Alright. Mike. Mike's got some advice. It's kind of advice. It's story time a little bit. Tell a story. So a couple couple weeks back, I think,

I I was getting prepared for youth group season. And so I was I was praying, and I was reading Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire again because I just love this book. And I start I start thinking, and I start getting kinda jazzed up. And I'm like, I'm gonna get these kids. I got some kids in mind that I'm gonna get together, and we're gonna start praying for the youth group and for school specifically. And we're gonna do it like we believe that the Holy Spirit does things. We're not gonna do it just because we have to. We're gonna do this thing. And I was getting really, really excited. And then one of the kids that I was really close to died in a car accident.

And, like, I'd gone from, like I'm like, we're on the offensive. Like, I was pumped. And then and then I get this news. Right? And, like, I was pretty close to this kid, and we had had some really good conversations about Jesus. He and and, like, it just took out every wind I had in my sail, like, completely. And so we do the things, and, you know, I I talked to the family. I talked to a bunch of kids. I I prayed through it, and we do the funeral and and all the things. You know? And I'm like, okay. And then, like, it was busy, and there was a bunch of things going on. And so I wasn't I wasn't praying any more than what I needed. Right? It wasn't deep. It was this is all I got kind of prayers. Yeah. And I certainly was not reading my bible.

And then two, three days later, still. And then two or three day three days later after that, still. And I'm like, what's going on with me? And I thought, I

don't wanna talk to you right now, and that's what I'm doing. I thought this kinda sucks. I know this to be the exact opposite of what I should be doing from both personal experience and years of reading the Bible and talking to other people about it. I know this is exactly the opposite thing that I should be doing. But I'm like, you know what? I just don't want to. And, like, all I can imagine is reading his word and having it come through flat and unable to address the things that I'm feeling and the gas that just got let out of my balloon and the effects that it had on this thing had on everybody around me and my community and me.

And so, like, two weeks go by. Same story every day. And I'm, like, giving out advice that I'm not taking. I'm, like, I'm not like, I know the things that would help address

the way that I'm feeling and a distance from god that I'm feeling, and not really in anger. I'm like, I'm not mad at god about this thing. I'm hurt, and I'm sad, and I can't seem to replace the wind that I had in my sails prior to the to the to the funeral. But I'm also not seeking,

like, the god that does that. And so and I know all these things. And then so today, I I'm like, has to change. Something new has to happen. And so I get up and I read my my lectio devotional, which I've not done in a couple weeks. And I looked at my wife and I said, woman, I gotta get my bible. I said, what what should I read? I'm I'm dealer's choice here. I need something, and I need I'm not picking it on my own. She's like, you should read the book of Jonah. And so I do. I I pull up the book of Jonah, and then here's what happens. I get three I get three verses in. And it says I'm a I'm a read all three verses so you can feel it the way I felt it. Yeah. Now the word of the lord came to Jonah, the son of whatever his dad's name is, saying, arise. Go to Nineveh, that great city, and call out against it for their evil has come up before me.

Verse three. But Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the lord. And I'm like, what kind of idiot believes that he can flee from the dang it. Dang it. And so I thought about this for a minute. And then, like, this is problem with being on this show and from teaching the word for a while is I'm like, you're personalizing a story that's not about you. Right?

But, like, I'm reading this going, what kind of idiot believes that he can outrun the presence of the lord by boat or by ignoring prayer time or

by trying to hide things from God as if he is unaware of what's happening or staying out of his word to not be refreshed, renewed, and reminded of good, true things even in hard things.

And I thought, okay. You're making this about you. Let's read on. Wait. It continues. He went this is the worst. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish. Still a plan? So he paid the fare, went down into it to go with them to Tarshish away from the presence of the Lord. And I thought, okay. So here's the thing. I can't tell whether this is vice or this is just a story that that just occurred to me today while I was reading. But, like,

I I didn't choose to read the book of Jonah. I was gonna read Matthew five. I'm like, I can't you can't go wrong with the words of Jesus. Come on. I'm going to Matthew five. This is solid. Woman's like, you're gonna read the book of Jonah. And, like, I get six verses in, and I'm I'm out of my own head for a minute thinking how dumb a man can be to try to hide from the presence of the Lord, realizing this said man is me. And I'm like, ugh, this is gross. And and then the Lord ends up talking like, Jonah goes and he hides and whatever. And, you know, all the people are like, what were you thinking? Why are you trying to hype? Now the lord's after everybody. What were you know, whatever. They chuck him from the boat. He gets eaten by the fish. They vomit up. Long story short, Jonah ends up mad that he's actually doing the thing that god asked him to do, and the lord goes, paraphrase, how's being angry going for you?

And Jonah's like, I like it. Feels good. I like being angry. And then like, I'm just slowly replacing, like, Jonah's you know, the words that God is saying to Jonah is like, how is being separated from me going? I'm like, not great. I have more humility than Jonah in this moment where I'm like, yeah, I know that wasn't going well. This is better. This feels better. I don't know if it feels like more of a revealing and more of a, hey. You look you know, you you're done. You did the thing. You you know, you felt like it was going. This is this was an honest and a and a fair reaction to the stuff. But, like,

yeah. I'm but how's that going for you? You know, it's Tarshish was never gonna do this. Yeah. Being trying to run out of my presence was never gonna do this. Right? And so, anyway, I don't know, like, what level that you're currently participating in this foolish thought of where you're, like, gonna outrun the presence of God. And if that means that you have a perpetual sin that you think this will continue to sustain, or you have some church hurt in your background that you're like, if I just avoid the church, then the presence of God will not be a problem. Or if I stay out of these communities, if I stay away from Jesus people and I hang around people who don't love Jesus, then then the presence of God will not follow me. And, like, maybe my advice to you is is, like, none of those things are true. That's a foolish thought. If there is a God in the world,

you will not outrun him. You will not be able to hide from him. You can certainly ignore him. That is an option, and you will feel that. But overall, the thought that you can outrun, hide from, pay money to, or duck the presence of God on your own human means. It's it's it's a foolish endeavor. And the a God that would that would maybe remind me of such a thing was such a foolhardy story as I arrogantly said, what kind of fool would think you would get away with something like this? And then I go, I know a guy that fits that description and then remember that it's me.

And so, anyway, I I I don't know if there's a ton of advice in there, but, like, more of just like a story. Like, if that sounds familiar to you in a way or you've done a thing or maybe you're hurting in a way and you're like, I'm not really sure how God can speak into this. And the truth is is, like, if you don't want to hear him, you won't. And if you don't give him the opportunity to speak into it, then, yeah, he will be you will be continually disappointed in the words that you refuse to hear. And so maybe I'm just maybe that's the advice is, like, if you think that, like, you've run across the thing or you're feeling in such a way, you know, that that God doesn't have space or ability or is not uniquely and intimately tuned in to the things that you're currently going through,

I'll just submit that you're mistaken in that. And so, like, it's not too late to just say, yes, Lord. I'm I'm I'm gonna try I'm gonna listen to this now. Let me let me see what that feels like. So maybe that's my advice is if you're sitting in a space some similar to that and, like, I tell you that story, kinda to my own shame, to be honest with you. Should know freaking better by now. But, like, that goes back to the broken humanity thing, and the messed up humanity thing is, like, even I would hate to color my relationship with God from the worst days that I've had. And I the father doesn't look at it that way either. Right? Like, he looks at me through redemptive blood of Jesus, and he looks at you the same way if that's the way that you've chosen to live and accept. And so just know that, like, ups and downs and whatever is like, God's not God's not gonna look at the at your foolishness and go, I'm done with that man. So let's let's try to rehab that conversation and maybe try to reconnect with him in in that kind of way. And don't read the book of Jonah. There's no there's nothing in there for you.

It's yeah. I think I have not met somebody who they didn't used to call deconstruction. They just called it walked away from Jesus or something. But, like, who didn't have some evidence in their life

that there was like, they were still looking for something. Mhmm. You know I'm saying? And so, like, Jonah's not an idiot. He's, like, he's he's just physically has nothing else to do. Like, there like, there's no other option. He's like, I it's kinda like it's kinda like that situation with Jacob and the Styx where you're like like, you you just do something physically that represents whatever's going on in your body. You don't even know what else to do. Right. And so you're like, I'm just gonna run or I'm just gonna, like, not read my bible because I I don't have any other way to to express

that, like, I don't feel like doing a thing. You know? But, like, they were either like, most people that I've that I've known and talked to that have walked away from Jesus are, like, either still they're trying to find some other spiritual thing to fill the void that's there Or they're like angry. They're like really mad and they're like very anti Jesus because it's it's the it's the running. It's the running to Tatarsus. Like, you don't have any there there's very few people who are like actually agnostic

where like, it just doesn't it's not after them in some way or another be because it was real. And, like, a real thing that you just closed your eyes to didn't make it less real. And so it has an impact on your life. The you can proclaim that the wind's not there, but then you gotta explain why your coat's moving in the breeze. And so but it's interesting though because like what you were talking, I thought like it's it's like how how

in some ways freeing is it to just stop and go, God, what are we gonna do? Like, not like, what am I gonna do? Or how am I gonna handle this? Or what thing? But it just goes, like, if I just stopped for a minute, stopped running and stopped fighting and stopped, like,

trying to negotiate what it looks like to just stop and go, what if I Lord, what if I just start with, what are we gonna do? Like Jonah Jonah could've. Jonah in the moment could've just gone like, God tells him to do a thing and he stops and like, God, I'm not gonna take a step, but I am gonna stay right here and go, what are we gonna do? Because I don't wanna do this. It's a way different proposition Yeah. Than I'm gonna run to Tarshish. And like, what what feels like don't

there's a song called Watchman by the Josh Garrels, and this statement I cried to it on the way here. Cards on the table. It's a freaking song. I heard it today too. But I here's the thing. It's, like, the chorus is super simple. Right? And it's just a recall of of of Peter. Like, saying, like, like, the chorus just goes, you're all I have. Lord, you are the way. I will I will love you and I will stay like a watchman at the gate waiting for morning to break. Right? It's like, even through, like, a hard thing. And, like, this has been true historically in my life too. Right? But this one is just the most recent example. It's like,

even if I decided all this is heavy and hard, I don't know. Like, all I all I have left is to go god. I I don't know where else to go. Yeah. Right. It's just you and me here. Right? And, like, I do still love you, and I do still trust you, and you're all I got because I don't have a plan. I don't have a good reaction to this. There's no plan. Yeah. Exactly. So, like, there's not there's not another option. Because I can cut god out right now and go find all the hope that he offers from the creator of the universe, the only one who would have the power and the mighty right hand to do any of the things that my heart wants to have done or wants to see a change in the world. Right? Like, there's no one else on offer that's offering that. Nobody. So even if I thought that god will was was not particularly interacting in a situation, it's not like I can replace him with an 800 number or a couple of dudes. You know what saying? Or, like, some really well meaning folks.

They can't do any of that. No. They don't even claim to be able to do any of that. And so, like, my hope is solely in him. Mhmm. And, like, it then none of that has changed. Right? But, like like, it just it's just a reminder that, like, when you strip all this stuff away and even when, like, it feels like I'm gonna try to run away from the presence of God because, like, frankly, I don't even know if I wanna hear what he's saying right now. Yep. Because that's not the conversation I wanna have. You know? But, like, at the end of the day, there's nowhere else to go. Yeah. And, like, Jonah thought his nowhere else to go was Tarshish. Like, the lord gets to Tarshish and go drafts. I'm gonna get far away enough from Yahweh. I don't hear them anymore. It's bad I'm not allowed in Tartus. You know? And and so, like, anyway, it's it's it's a simp it's it's a really simple, like, I suppose, reminder that, like, we read some of these stories in the bible and look at how foolish people are. And, like, it's an echo of you in some manner or another. And just about every fool you beat in the bible has, like, an uncle named Mike. Or there's someone in his family that had, like like, acts this way. We do this with Israel all the time. You're like, you just saw a pillar of fire. And literally forty days later, you're like, I would love to go back to be a slave. This desert is very uncomfortable. At least we had food. At least these sandals don't wear out, but seriously, this this is bothering me. You know what I'm saying? And so you're like, how could people act this way? And then, like, you look back at your life and go, god did a major thing, and then it wore off. And then I forgot that maybe my obedience wasn't really that important or personal holiness was not that big of a deal. And maybe I'll let these things slip, and I'll stop meeting with these people, and I'll stop staying away from those movies, or I'll get back with this group of friends. And you're like, what the heck? How did I get here? You know how you got there. Just the same way Israel got there. There's something awesome about the concept of, like, if you're if you're in, like the geographical area of Israel, right, and at any point in time that you're trying to physically flee away from God,

you are actually passing physical markers and locations that are like, oh, actually I know why that's called that place. Yeah. Like I know that that place is called that because at one point in time there a couple rocks that were put right there. There was a staircase there that ran the angels. There a pillar that was there that like my ancestor Jacob said, because of this pillar, like I'm gonna God's faithful. And like it really like and Ben, said it this way before, like we have such short memories. Like we have such short memories that if we were in geographical location,

we walk past Bethel, we go, oh yeah, that's literally named that because that's the house of God. Yeah. Like that, I'm physically walking past a reminder that goes, oh, do you remember when God was faithful in that thing? Because this town is here because of that. Do you remember why we've got this city on 7 Hills? It's because like God was faithful thousands of years before I saw a building there. And it's just interesting to me that like a thing like this, and you said it's as well, is, like, it's it's a reminder of it's really hard to walk away from hope incarnate and expect to find anything hopeful. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's really hard to walk away from love and expect to find anything loving. But, like, we do it, and it's just so awesome that God just goes, I'm still here. Yeah. Like, I'm still here. Like, yes. I'm I'm I'm here in all of this, and I recognize why your heart's this way, and I recognize why you're angry, why you're sad or why you're hurt. I made your heart to feel this. You were supposed to feel this hurt because it was never supposed to be like this. But, like, long for a day when when I make all this new, that's exactly what you should be doing. But, like, in the meantime, didn't go anywhere. Yeah. I'm right here. Yeah. And You could've gone to Tarshish. And and look the way that god responds to Eve and Jonah. Right? Like like, it's not like god's like, I'm done with you. You ran to a boat, you idiot. I picked the wrong guy. Look at this moron. There he is. And you're like, I'll send a fish to come get you, I guess. You know I'm saying? Like, it's grace after grace after grace. And Jonah like, the book ends with Jonah's heart still hardened. Rough. Right? It is not like a a bow tie at the end of the story where you're like, Jonah's finally came to realize it. But it's not. But yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as far as the biblical account, I don't what happened with Jonah the rest of his days. Right? But, like, as far as the biblical account of the prophet Jonah, right? Like, he's still sitting arms folded pissed because he gave the word of the lord, poorly, I might add, to the town of Nineveh. Watch what I'll do. Like, he walks in and, like, I I actually showed this part to my wife, and I'm like, we've been doing this all wrong, woman. Like, you just walk in and go, judgment is at hand, and then you cut a trail. He didn't even listen to me. He did not even go to the king. No. He goes, like, halfway in. Doesn't even go all the way to into town. Doesn't say which god it is. He doesn't say it's Yahweh or anything. He just kinda walks in. Yeah. Uh-huh. And, like, barely flutes it around. And the next god is so good that even the frigging cattle are like, we gotta change. Yeah. The whole town's like, oh, man. Maybe we can relent his hand.

We should mourn. Get some ashes on that bull, friend. We're not showing enough that we're mourning. Yeah. Did you just bathe? Unbathe. Put them shrouds on. It's bad days. Yeah. Think of that, Mike. Like, you spend so much time in, like, these various, you know, families and people and communities, like, trying to love and show care and whatever. Joe ain't snuggling no cattle. Nope. He just walks in and goes, I mean, this is this is the deal. Yeah. Half heartedly. Yep. This is it. Yeah. Judgment. Bye. I Bye. Was out. I'm a go sit in the sun. Let's go sit in the sun and be angry at a tree. That's true. He didn't even say what to do. Like, they came they came to sackcloth as their own conclusion. Yes. Yes. Their reaction was, oh, shoot. We gotta mourn this because there's something wrong. I think the the for me, the fascinating part of of that whole story is who these people were, the Mittites, you know? I mean, they they were known to to drink their wine out of the skulls Mhmm. Of Jewish Vicious. People they had slain, you know? So so, yeah, Jonah was not too excited about

bringing repentance. He's like, yeah, repent. But then steal. God's gonna take you all down. I'm gonna get Can't wait. Yeah. Alright. See you next week. I tell you what, like, like, it just makes me sometimes I like, I've I've read Jonah before, Right? Uh-huh. And I'm like, I'm putting in way too much work and thought into my presentation of the gospel to other people. You know what I'm saying? Like, at the end of the day and the bible bears this out. If god goes with you, I I mean, you could walk in there and go, poop hillbillies. And people are like, I gotta repent. Right. I gotta turn my ways. You know I'm saying? And, like so, like, it it which goes back to the prayer thing, and it goes back to, like, trusting God to do the things that God is going to do and, like and and and being faithful in the thing that he has guided you to do. So, like, you what you think is the big presentation of the gospel is this big, well rehearsed sermon and, like, having influence over over other people in this way and, like, all these things. And I'm saying they're bad, and I'm not saying that God doesn't have you doing some of these things. But at the end of the day, God changes hearts. The holy spirit shows up and gives people ears to hear. And you can bark all you want, but without ears to hear, you're talking to the deaf, dumb, and blind, and it does you no good. And so, like and, like, you talk about the big things that get most of those churches, those top 10 things that, like, people misconception of the churches, it's when people do that. Right? It's when they're like, I have a plan, and, like, here's what we're gonna do. And we did some metrics testing, and we're gonna do this. And, like, I hear you. Like, some of these are just regular, this is how we do things Sure. Right. Kind of things. But at the end of the day, god brings people in. God opens ears. God changes hearts. The holy spirit does the work. And sometimes you will be lucky enough to be used as an instrument of which god got to do that. Most of the time, you just get to be a spectator on how great God is and go, dang. I was glad I got to see that. That's super cool. You know what I'm saying? And, like and it's it's almost easier if you're not involved because then you have to fight your kingdom too. Right? And when God shows up and goes, I think you guys should repent. Everyone's like, oh, man. We should change our whole lives. Uh-huh. Unbelievable. We were so dumb in the past. Where can we sacrifice to Yahweh? Right. You know what I'm saying? And then you get to go, holy cow. Look at this amazing thing that God did. You know? Yeah. God opened ears and hearts, and everything changed. Exactly. Yep. Hey. You're listening to life in the path. Hey. Maybe you got feedback on the show. Hit us up in the life in the path. Complete line, (515) 517-0085. Call

or text. We'd love to hear from you. It's (515) 517-0085, the Life From The Path complaint line, primarily designed for complaints because that seems most likely, but if you have nice things to say, you're you're free to use the the complaint line. You can call and leave a voice mail if you want to. I'll promise not to answer, but, like, it keeps showing up like it's a legit phone call. Yeah. Like, it used to be that it just look. It was very clear that this was a call to the complaint line, but now it, like, pops in like it's someone calling me, and I've I've mistakenly answered it before. So that's I'll do my very best not to do that, though. Just a heads up. Alright. On the staying staying on the advice train, we got any dear life from the path? Dear life from the path, my husband is going to be 70 next month. He is in good physical shape, but has taken up smoking marijuana every day. He says he is addicted.

I have told him how much I hate that he uses dope. He he quits for a while and then goes back to it. We have been married almost fifty years. Yeah. I would be disappointed filing for divorce, But I am starting to think it's my only way out of a situation that has become increasingly frustrating. His doctor has told him it probably won't kill him. Seriously? What's your advice?

Is that the only grounds for divorce is that the guy's smoking marijuana? Yeah. That's what I'm confused about. Like, I get it seems odd that, like, do you not like it that he's doing a substance? Did you watch reefer madness in the fifties when you were born? Like and then that's your whole thought process of it? Or, like, is is it illegal and you don't like that he's doing something illegal? Because that's a fair conversation to have. But, like, I just seems odd to just be like, I'm I'm against the marijuana cigarettes, and I don't like this at all. And I'm gonna divorce my husband because I just I hate this. After fifty years? I that's wild to me. Fifty years of marriage and then a 70 year old man who's been smoking weed, you're out. Dan. He he must be smoking in the house, and it's driving her insane. You think it's something like that? Stinky.

So if she just built him a smoke den? I I maybe so. Like, go outside of the shed. Go out through Turn your your shed one shed. An opium den, you old like, you crazy reefer man. Dan, if if your wife just started take took up marijuana and refused to give it up, Quit for a while. So many conversations to have. I would take two witnesses. No. I mean Yeah. In that point in time, the witnesses, the neighbor down the street that smelled the skunk.

Is he, like, in a lot of pain, and this is helping the pain? That's what I saw too. Yeah. Don't know what what are the medical reasons people take this stuff. Divorce just seems pretty extreme. I mean, maybe like, hey. I'm going to start sleeping downstairs away from you or something, but I don't know. And I hate to make it this, but, like, he's not doing myth. Yeah. Like, I'm not you're not walking in and he's bumping lines of devil's dandruff. Yeah. Like, legitimately, like, this is just, hey. Yeah. He tokes up nowadays. I don't like this at all. I'm 70. I'm smoking the sweet tea. Yeah. I remember seeing Jerry Garcia do this in '75, and I was always interested. He's not he's not messing around. What if he Go meth with him. What if he did a like, what if he took up to, an unhealthy ring ding habit or something? Like, would it be looking the same way? Like, he's like, I put down 20 ring dings a day. He, like, he's constant there's rappers everywhere. Like, he he's making Gerald's got the munchies, I'm tired of it. He's just sitting there, like, eating ring dings all the time. Hey. She did start out by saying he's very physically fit. Okay. So now here's what might be difficult for her

is like, if suddenly he's behaving what feels like out of character. To be fifty years in and then all of a sudden he's a dick he's not addicted to marijuana. He likes it. And he may even like it because it irritates you. I don't know. But, like, I if you're like, hey. I thought I knew someone. Like and it feels foreign because they're behaving in a way you didn't expect. Yeah. I could see how that could be jarring. Mike, to your point, if it's, like, ring mings and and marijuana, same problem, though. You're like, who is this person? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then now you don't know what your relationship is. Yeah. And so that I could get that. That makes sense to me. That does make sense. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's jarring. But this seems odd to be like a no other context. Gerald picked up the weed. Won't put it back down. I'm out. But to that extent, like, I would just like, you've long suffered through fifty years. Let this thing play out. Yeah. Now but but to Dan's earlier point, it's okay to have natural consequences. The natural consequences of you got the old left handed stink to you is that I ain't sleeping in the same bed with you. Right. You can forget it. You know? Yeah. You wanna act like a college kid, go couch surf. That's right. And you gotta do it outside. You I don't care if it's eight degrees outside. And so, like, there's an impact to just just natural consequences of you smoking the left handy, and go ahead and force them. But, otherwise, just play it out. He's gonna he's gonna finish it off in, like, six months. I can't stop making this into a cartoon in my head where, like, Gerald recently started wearing tie dye more often, and, like, he smells a lot more like patchouli oil, and I don't like that about him. And he's been listening to the Grateful Dead and, like, Jethro Toll a whole bunch, and I'm not I just don't like what he's turned into.

Yeah. I wish that it was that, but it really is just he's been token. He's acting like a rebellious teenager at 70. That's what I'm wondering is if he's like, I don't care anymore. I'm on the downward slope. Why do I It's not like he's running around town causing trouble. I can't imagine. I mean, he's just sitting around the house If thinking of the timeline right here though, like, there's a good chance that marijuana very specifically culturally is, like, one of the worst possible things you can do. This person is 70 years old. That's about the right timeline of like,

this is like public enemy number one is marijuana because it leads to all the other things. Right. Legitimately, made the joke about reefer madness, but very possibly Yeah. Reefer madness. And it's something that she's held It's a moral moral issue. Exactly right. And she's held this since she was, like, 12 when this was shoved down her throat by her parents and society. I can understand if maybe he stopped caring that much about that, but she's very much still conservative in that piece. And that that shift, like you were saying, is jarring. And and Yeah. It's hard to reconcile. But don't fight it. Here's what I'm But that's a conversation to have at most go to therapy and talk about because it's probably not your only issue, actually. I wouldn't fight it. I would like, I would embrace it. I I if it's if it's like an end life crisis. Right? He's just like trying something out. He's rebelling against his age or something like that. If he's otherwise not harming anybody, it's just irritating to you because he's behaving out of character. Like, you can fight him on it. And if that's the motivation, it's gonna get worse. Or

you just like I mean, you can either directly support it, be like, wake him up in the morning, said, roller bowl today, boys. Like, you can offer him. Or just like let it play itself out. Give it like six months and like it'll be fine and he'll it'll normalize. As someone who has taught me about Jesus for a big chunk of my life, to hear you go, morning, roller bowling, boys. I just it never I was never prepared for that. I didn't know how to take it, and I'm still kinda sitting on that. Go ahead, Dan. Sorry. I'm assuming he's at a place where it is legal to smoke because I don't see a 70 year old guy running, you know, out to the locker room to try to buy something from the global. I'm just imagining how do you start that drug dealer conversation with your 70 year old man. Yeah. Oh, it's done. See you have some baggies. Yeah. Do you happen to have some marijuana in that? I noticed that you were eating a lot of ring dings. Do you by chance have a hook up on the ganja? Yeah. Hit the bricks, old man. You're scared away our clientele. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've talked before.

So, you know, if it's not a legal issue, and we're guessing it's a moral issue, then I understand that. But it's that'd like, was suddenly having sex with all the neighbors, that would be like, okay. Now you're talking to divorce. Problem. Yep. Right. And she's probably saying it's the same Yeah. You know? I've never smoked this stuff in my life, so I'm not like you know, it's a foreign world for me too. Cheryl started smoking marijuana, though. I'd probably be like, okay. That's gross. Weird choice. But But it'd be different if if you walked in and she was booting black tar heroin. Yeah. Hopefully, it'd be different. That feels weird that you had a pause there. But I'm just That had no idea what it was. And she I'm trying to figure out what that was. I I was saying she was doing heroin. You walk in and she's got a needle in her arm and a rubber band hose around her. Okay. That'd be a little bit different than if she smelled a little rough. Okay.

Yeah. Would would would you like, culturally, like, I think some of this is just an inbound culturally problem. Right? Like, let's say that, like, seventy years gone by, dude ain't never smoked a day in his life. Right. And now he's buying Palmol's two pack a day. Are you questions? Right? It's the same question. You're like, what what's going on with this change in the way that Or pain pills. Or pain pills. Right? Sudden, you got addicted, had a surgery, now you're addicted. I wouldn't be like, well, you're out. Happens fairly often, and that's the time to double down and be like, I love you. What do we need? What's going on here? Let's get some yeah. How can how can I help you? What what are we Yeah. Yeah. You're in crisis. Figure it out. So Secular says, unless oh, man. Unless there are other reasons why you want out of your marriage, perhaps you should lighten up. Some people smoke marijuana to relax or relieve yeah. Or to relieve tension, depression, or even boredom. Okay. Literally any action relieves boredom. This is a unfair life. Yeah. I'd also read a book or You know one of those paddles that has the rubber band ball on it? Yeah.

Your if your husband of fifty years comes to you and go, I'm smoking weed because I'm bored. Buy him a Game Boy. Yeah. Yeah. Or vacuum the place. This is alive from the past. Howard, have you picked up Game of Thrones recently? Yeah. It's about seven seasons long. You could watch that. Get a garden going, dude. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a lot of options to cure for constructive things. Okay. Do you know why your husband does it on a daily basis and why you are bothered to the point you are considering divorce? Before talking to an attorney, you might benefit from attending a few Naranon meetings to gain some insight. They're as near as your computer at naranon.org. Going to Naranon and saying that, like, weed is your problem,

I promise you you will get laughed out of that problem. My year old started smoking weed daily and he's addicted to it. Yeah. At Narcotics Anonymous These dudes are like, they live in my car. Literally. I've been to these meetings. You can't speak at a Nar Anon meeting unless you, like, recently were doing heroin. Just saying. Sorry. Go ahead. Alright. Here we go. Last one. Yep. Dear life from the path, I recently bought a new house. I was downsizing because my mother has passed away and my daughter went out of state to college. I invited my best friend and her son over. We have been best friends since junior high, and I love her dearly. I actually bought my new furniture with weight considerations as a factor because she and her son weigh about a thousand pounds combined. It's a weird way to put that. How would you include their combined weight? The heavy duty Have you seen thousand pound sisters on TLC?

It's basically that. Weird. Okay. Hold on. I'm gonna finish it up. I'm so excited for this. As they sat down, my friend joked about having broken other people's furniture in the past. Then there was an audible crack as they sat down on my couch. At the same time, these freaking dudes, how long you been a little bit north of It's the small. It's small. You know I'm saying? Like, hey, I realized that we put a little stress on the furniture. We should double team this couch and sit down at the exact same time. I hate these people. Okay. Hold on. This is not done. She just looked at me and made no comment. Live from the Path, I know friendship is more valuable than a couch, but she wants she wants to bring more of her family over to visit. I simply can't afford to buy a $900 couch every few months. Can you can you please help? $900 couch was not reinforced. Are you friends friends with the clumps? Like, what is happening?

They they wanna bring more of their friends over. Like, I can't we can't possibly imagine that all three of them are gonna sit on the couch at the same time. Real careful here, fellas. This is light territory. Oh, light territory, seems to be think that's the problem, Mike. Okay. They can't handle light territory. Let's see. I'm I'm hoping that this friend legitimately is looking for advice to, like, reinforce

her floors to figure out, like, you should we should be worried about your toilet bowl and, like, you should I have to poop. No. Hear you don't. It's a brand new toilet. Listen. Listen to I audibly heard a crack. I'll be honest, I've heard that from a hundred pound person sitting on a couch before.

These people have not been fat long, okay? What are you new to fat? Listen to me, As a seasoned vet, okay, grew fat slowly. I like to say I marbled over time. I know full well that I hover for a moment before I sit on any I check integrity first. Yes. I check. Yeah. Yeah. I scope the place out. I know if you if you bought new furniture, I'm not the one sitting on that. If I can't see the metal that's holding that thing together, I'm not sitting on it. Like this is flat out truth. I'm happy to sit on the ground, and then I'll struggle to get up. It's just it's a fact of the matter. Yeah. But, like, there is no situation where me and me and Fatty McGee next to me are gonna go, you know what we should do? Do a synchronized swimming to sit down on this couch together at the same time and then see what happens with the structural integrity of these four legs. I bet this is just fine. They full if they've been fat long enough, they know the negative angle that their knees had to get at to get down to that couch because they've had to think of the physics and structural integrity of everything they've ever dealt with. Forget these people.

Forget these people. I'm angry as a fat man. I'm angry as I'm fat that has broken chairs before immediately turned around and went, who? The amount of times that I I I they heard that crack. Like, I promise you they heard that crack. Either that or they're fat and oblivious, which is the worst kind. Like, that's ridiculous. You should know that you're on my thousand pound sister's life. Sorry. I'm a get real angry about this. I should probably stop talking, fellas. Because I'm just I'm angry for all fat people. Because, like, some of us just don't give a good name. Me? I wear undershirts,

so I never got any downstairs belly flop. Like, I'm a firm believer that you tuck in on the front and the back so nobody ever has to see part of your business that they didn't want to. I'm a firm believer in two showers a day, and I'm a firm believer in check all the furniture before you sit down on it, or you stand and deal with knee pain for two days. Do you wanna know why? Because I may be fat, but I have shame, and I know how to live in that life. I have self respect, and I respect the people around me. And I respect the people around me enough to feel bad if I break their furniture and then replace it. Sorry. I apologize. I'm just real angry right now. So it feels like Edward Scissorhands and and his buddy Tom Scissorhands come in, and they're like This really feels like the clumps. Like, this is you've been fat. This is Sorry. Like, they both like, right. Like like, what you're imagining in your mind is that they both sit down, it cracks and breaks, they look at each other and like, oh. Yes. I guarantee you they heard it. Oh,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fat doesn't collect around your eardrums. It may get everywhere else, but it doesn't do that. That's okay. How okay. Hold on. Apart from the cartoonist ridiculous decision particular situation. What do you do? Yeah. What do you Buy more sturdy couches. Yeah. I I tried to be thoughtful about my friend, but she brought her fat son too, and I didn't account for both of them being here. And now they wanna bring four more. My fridge and my budget can't handle this, friends. What do I do? I gotta be honest. If there's restaurants. If they're as big as your like, how many couches are you gonna own? You know what I'm saying? Like, if they if they're as big as you're saying, ain't more than two of them on this couch at once anyway. No. What are you gonna own? Four couches? Exactly. It's not the nutty professor. I promise you if they are a thousand pounds together, that means that either both of them are close to five hundred pounds or one of them is four hundred and the other is six hundred. You will know the situation at that point in time, and you're starting to get to a point where you're not walking that much, to honest with you. But, like Okay. This is gonna feel like a mildly insensitive question. I just Well, based off of what all I've said the last fifteen minutes, I think you're fine. Okay.

Is a folding chair will it work? Yeah. Metal. Is there like a too wide of a person where like it can't the folding chair won't do it? If you're if you're a big one like myself Yeah. You you look for arms on chairs. Yeah. And if there's no arms, we're all good. My natural enemy is armchairs. I used to have a small group of very large people. I was probably in it. And your father. Yeah. My dad He brought his own chair. Oh, you bet we did. He brought his own chair. Do wanna know one of the best things I learned from my dad? Buy a chair, keep it in the car. And I heard cracks Yeah. On the couches. Totally. We met outside a lot. It happens. Yeah. Set me on a picnic bench, friend. I'll be fine.

You wanna know what we do? We sit on stairs a lot. Hey. See you. Yeah. Truth. We sit on stairs a whole bunch. You see a bench chair sitting on a stair? It's because they love you. They love you. They scan the room with And there's a chance they scan that room and went, I don't trust any of this. None of this. I don't trust a single one of these things. And, like, people that love me go, Hoover can't be here. Like, look at this place. We can't do this kind of thing. There's arms on all the chairs. We ain't got this kind of thing. If you only have chairs that look like they're an airplane seat, you didn't invite me to a place where I feel invited to. I'll be outside. Folding metal folding chairs will do you. Will do you. Yeah. But it is it's real conspicuous. Yeah. Like, here's the deal. You if you bring me out a metal folding chair, I know you know. I know you know. I Now I always say There's there's nothing I'm hiding. Like, there's no part of me that's like, bring out a metal folding chair and I go, I can't believe they figured it out. I like,

no doctors come up to me and go, we got a bit of a problem, son. And I'm like, we do. Like, there's no Nobody told me. There's no pun intended. There's no hiding here. You can't I I don't hide well. Like, it's just not a true situation. No fat people play hide and seek on their own. They were forced to in gym class. But, like or at playgrounds. Anyway, folding chairs are fine. Yeah. Yes. I was supposed sit This doctor who's like, sir, we have to talk about Oh, I'll be honest. The elephant in the room. I've and it's you. And it's you. I've I've messed with doctors before where they've been like, so we've got a little bit of a weight issue. And I'll just be like, is it really? Is it that bad? They're like Something like this happened. Exactly. I woke up recently, and, like, I got stung by a bunch of bees, and, like, I thought maybe that had to do with it or to cough. Right. Nobody wakes up at 06:40 unless they've been in a coma. I've been over six hundred pounds before and I've been asked to weigh myself at the zoo, okay? That's, that is a real situation. I wish I made that up for a bit. That is a, I respect that doctor more than I respect any other member of the health community because he looked at me and went, We need your weight because that's kind of part of what we do. And my machine will break if you step on it. And so you have three options. You can go to the zoo where they weigh animals. You can go to

the UPS where they weigh pallets of mail Mhmm. Or you can go to the landfill where they weigh cartloads of trash. Mean, those are your three major options, And, like, I've never respected a man more in my life. Because he was willing to look me in the face, recognize that I could have had him for lunch and probably wouldn't have even burped after. And then literally was like, alright, fatty fatty, no friends. You got three options. And one of them's male, one of them's trash, and one of them's tiger. So you choose what you want. Which one comes for ice cream? You pack a derm of a man. Oh, tigers for sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I know. I I legitimately, I thought it was poetic to choose the dump because that's what it felt like at that time it's real trash. And so that's what I went for. Yeah. Foldable chairs are perfectly fine. They should bring their own. My thousand pound life shouldn't sit on anything together, that isn't on four wheels. Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry. So That wasn't advice for you though. Good luck. Yeah. I you know, like, it's it's difficult because of, like, if they are truly oblivious, either they're which is hard really hard to take. Then you got no shot. Or they legitimately, like, don't care about you. Like, to be fair, like Boob was right. Like, this wraps up into a lot of shame and and, like you know what I'm saying? Like, realization that, like, you don't wanna admit that you're causing this level of problem. Right. And so maybe, you know, you try to ignore it a little bit and then other people are paying the consequences. You know, like there's a lot of grace to be had in the way we're having this conversation, you know? But like if her advice is I mean, how close are you to these people? You know what I'm saying? Like For instance, junior high is wild. That, like, you've probably known kids since he was born. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's hard. Yeah. That is there's oh. I almost said a thing that I would've made myself laugh, and it would've been fun. I I almost said there's really there's no real good way to tiptoe around this. I could make that joke because I've been over 660

before, and I had to weigh where they weigh trash. Okay? I get it. Kindred spirits. We've we've all been to KFC. Legitimately, though, like, this is a really hard place to walk in because if you're getting to that point of obesity, there is severe mental illness that's been involved or severe mental issues that have been maybe not mental illness to the point most likely, but, like, there's severe depression. There's major depression that's going on. This is a hard conversation to have. There's a chance they heard it, but there was no part of their brain that could have possibly owned up to it. Yeah. Because there was so much shame and embarrassment in that that they were just like, of course, this happened. And I guarantee you they left there and went to McDonald's. And I don't mean that as a joke. I mean, is that's their coping mechanism, and it's really hard to do. Cyclical for sure. It really It feels like crap, and so you try to Oh, such a hard thing to get out of and, like, you were born into it, you grew up in it, it was your whole family, all this different stuff. Here's the deal. Like, there's a certain level of this where it's just part of being a decent human being is, like, you don't have to replace a couch every three months. Like, don't get me wrong. But, like, figure out a way to, like, see if you can love that person, and it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be frigging hard because there's no way to be like, hey, Jill, you came over to my house with your son. You broke my couch. What do you think about going to the gym together? Like, that's a hard conversation to have, and you're really backed into a corner with this. But, like, what I can hope for you is that, like, you by you loving them and being someone that can be there for them legitimately is one less person that they have to feel horrible around all the time, and maybe that that causes a break in the storm. And there's a little bit of sunshine that gets in there that gets to that point. I've lost 300 pounds now because people loved me when I was real, being in a place where I was gaining weight. I didn't smell great all the time. I was broken, and I was hurting all the time, and it took people to just be there and, like allow me into that. And more importantly, it took Jesus getting into my life and going like there's better ways. Like son, I love you and like we can work through this shame together. So it's a hard place. So it wouldn't be horrible advice to be like, I mean, pick up a couple folding chairs. They might be relieved. Put a cinder block under that couch. I'm not saying we put bricks under our couch. Nobody ever knew it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. We had cinder blocks under every couch and bed and being totally honest about it. And it's like Yep. It seems crazy and it seems wild, but, like, it really is it's such a loving thing to be able to do. Absolutely. Because, like, you know what you don't do? You go, hey. Jill, you owe me for a couch. You and your fat son broke it. Yeah. Like Yeah. I'm worried that you might be that kind of person if I'm being totally honest about it that I'm seeing this as a life from the path or dear life of the path, but still. Yeah. Pursue being a real human and imagine what it's like to be in their shoes.

Okay. Seckler says, your friend should have offered to pay to have your new sofa repaired or replaced. That she heard the wood crack under the burden of their weight and said nothing speaks volumes to me. In the future, visit her at her home, but refrain from inviting her to visit or bring relatives to your home again. Yeah. Go to her house and then power bomb onto her couch so that it feels what it was like for them to sit on yours. You're right. Yeah. Don't invite them to your house anymore. Come on. We're not living this way. Right. This is not the way we're living. Nope. That is not a solution nor is your loving, generous, any of that. All that's garbage. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. Okay. You're listening to life in the past. Thanks for hanging out with us. We really do appreciate it. Yeah. We really made light of that situation. Yeah.

It's the only thing that was light about it. You wanna you wanna sit down on the couch at the same time? I just Best jumps. Mitch, sit down together, man. I got the Two. Like, people who own over are are not, like, obese, don't do this. No one synchronizes the time they're gonna sit down on a on a chair. It's ridiculous. Sometimes we do have to coordinate the level at which our knees give out. Just being honest. Like, sometimes it's we made it to the couch and now we're done.

Strategically place two couches. Yeah. Maybe that's the actual move is buy a second couch because it's cheaper to have them sit on one couch each Yeah. And not have to replace oh, gosh. Yeah. Sorry. Yep. Alright. You're live from the past. Thanks for hanging out with us. We really appreciate it. (515) 517-0085. Call or text with any feedback for us on the show. Otherwise, we're gonna turn you back over to your life. Thanks for hanging out. And we'll probably be there next week. We'll see. But in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to