Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper. You are live from Pathway. And you're listening to live for the path coming from the Pathway studios here in Johnston Proper. It's it's just absolutely delightful to be with you on this on this balmy summer evening here on live for the path. Hey. Good good news.

I'm gonna say September 15. Boy, I'm gonna say September 15, big surprise in live from the Pathland. Big news. So I'm not gonna tell you what it is, but you should like, even you you playing the home game, you should be excited. This is this three of you have been begging for this, for this to be a reality in our lives. And so just just keep it on your calendar, September 15, big big things going on in Life From The Pathland. Here's what we got going on the show this evening. The overarching question that has been rolling through my mind is how important are the words that we're using from a Christian perspective?

And I'm gonna say upfront that I know that I'm particularly, I think I have a bit of a bent for this, which is funny, it's hypocritically funny. I know I'm a gas bag. Like I recognize this in myself and sometimes I do an okay job of pulling it back and sometimes I just, I don't know, I think I'm helping and sometimes I'm not, I get it, okay? So totally true. I've never noticed that. Here's probably worse than ever, Sunday mornings are also not great because I'm not using a manuscript, and so like, I'm just, I have to be careful. So, hey, should we talk less is rich coming from me? But I was just thinking about this on like, how much do our words

matter? And if so, how careful do we need to be about them? And how often do people overlook words? Like, are people pretty good at getting this kind of broad thing that you're saying and the precision of how you said it didn't so much matter? I think it maybe depends on the person, but I was just thinking about it and when I was praying and praying with other people and kind of just listening to other people talk about Jesus, whether it's podcasts or sermons or whatever, and I just like that, that's my question is is there a refinement or a caution or a question for us on how much do your words matter and should maybe, should we talk less a little?

So anyway, I'll set that up a little bit more when we get there. We also have, so this is so funny because Mike and Dan do not remember this at all, but if you are a longtime listener to the show, think we Like how long you say it? Like, I mean, like probably from the beginning, maybe a couple years after, because we've been doing the show for fifteen years, and I'm pretty sure this is at least ten years ago, but every week we would pick a critique from a website that was something like God hates amputees, or like, why doesn't godhealamputees.com, it was set up by a guy named Marshall Brain who was,

he started the website, how stuff works and those books and stuff. And so anyway, we did one a week, which is basically like, how do we talk about critiques of the faith? It's, I think it's a really good question actually, like, hey, if your God is active and he is who he says he is, and he heals people, why do we never see this particular type of healing? Wouldn't that show everybody like that was kind of his point. And so anyway, because you guys don't remember this, this has a far less impact on anybody. I was

listed to an old show today and it made me think of that particular set of topics. So I'm like, well, I wonder what happened to that guy. And what I was hoping for is that I would Google it and it would go, the man came to repentance. He figured out the error of his ways and he came to know and serve Jesus. What actually happened in his life is that he died in 2024 with no evidence of repentance. Oh, And I thought, well, dang it. That's that's really too bad. That would have been one heck of a turnaround and excitement. And because then I thought if that had But you're telling this story as a possible anecdote knowing full well it is not an anecdote. Yeah. Didn't, nothing happened. He died with all of his limbs. They

didn't say in the thing, it did say a lot of his obituaries reinforced that he was a strong cause for atheism, which is just a very weird thing to say. I'm a strong advocate for non belief. I bet that's not true any longer. No, no, unfortunately not. And like I, the part of the reason I was, I like I was really had in the back of my mind, probably for about five seconds, I'm like, he's gonna have to have changed the website. He's going to have found Jesus and then provided rebuttals to all his own stuff. Was like so excited that this thing might be true, but it was entirely off my own making that this thing was a reality.

And so anyway, unfortunate double sets of realities for this film. Rough. Also, there's an article from the Christian Post around 13 tests that a Christian must pass. And I thought, mean, this seems kind of epic, like a quest.

So the question, and we'll see, maybe this thing will take two minutes, but like we're going to run through these and go, it's set up as if everybody has to hit them and the test I don't love because like it kind of gives a click, you might pass fail. It's probably not what they're getting at, but anyway, we'll give those a shot and we'll see if you relate to any of them. Like, I'm kind of curious to go, where have you seen, which one of these have we as like been a major stumbling block either for you personally or for other people that you've interacted with? You say like, well, this one's the real beast here. So anyway, that's the thing. Plus we'll do advice on, on dear life from the path. Okay, here's what I got to thinking about, about talking less. It came initially to me

because I was praying, I pray in the morning and I cannot, I've come to the conclusion that can't pray like right out of the gate. That's what I want to do. I want to get up and I want to just be like, I'm gonna pray out of the gate, but like my, I just cannot land on a coherent thought within the first probably twenty to thirty minutes of when I'm awake. And I realized it just as I've also kind of realized that like, sometimes when I've got a goal of trying to hit some Bible reading, I'm not taking it in. My eyes are scanning. I'm trying to, I'm even saying the words kind of out loud or trying to visualize them in my mind, but I can go two or three sentences and go, didn't, what did I just read? No idea. Yeah. Yeah. No clue. And I thought like, I'd rather have sat like not, you don't have to be like hyper monkish about it. I'm just, but if you're gonna put your eyes over the thing and you're gonna create some sort of space, which God's gonna move or change or shift or point your eyes or refine your heart,

like it can't just be because you opened the book and moved your head back and forth. Like you can do that without a Bible open. And so anyway, I can't do it really that early in the morning. And I realized that I start to skim and the same thing is true praying and I gotta say normal things that I say that kind of set me up to try to focus on what I'm gonna pray about, and then I started recognizing that like, I'm not thinking about these at all, they're just words that are coming out, and I'll start to pray, and I might get halfway through it, and then I'll find myself kinda like hitting the record machine, so the needle jumps back and says the thing that I normally start with. Yeah. Is this to happen to you fellas? Yeah. Okay. Yes. So this happens to me. And so then I thought like the posturing

of, hey, I want to pray is right. And is God super tied up in the quality of my words? Like if I don't say it right, is he going to be upset or not hear the thing? No, I know I don't believe that at all. But personally, was recognizing that like, I'm not, these words are not doing anything for me. And they're just blabbing at God for the sense of holding the space, and I would probably be better off in silence. Yeah. Like just letting God speak and going, I'm not trying to fill the air here. Here's my go to. Okay. I know when this thought or words

are uttered that I've checked out, I love you God, I just love you so much, and I'm thinking, okay I do, but like, that just means I've dialed off, it's like, got nothing, and how can you get mad at me for saying I love you, so obviously this is good. Right. And then I'll catch myself, dude, like say something. Yes. Say something real. Right, so this hit me this week, specifically it's not left me after church on Sunday, and it's funny because I think Mike and I have both got legs out of this example of this dude reaching out and trying to keep the ark from falling over. And like the difficult

thing, this is in Samuel chapter six, and David's having the ark move from a dude's barn where it's been held because they didn't know what to do with it, and Saul never calls for it, which is telling, and so David says, We're gonna move it to Jerusalem, and they put it on a cart and they start to move it and it hits a bump, and Uzzah and his brother reach out and try to stop this thing from falling, and God immediately kills him, puts him to death. And it seems crazy, you look at it and you're like, David thinks God, he's angry with God, And you're like, why he really overreacted? Wasn't he trying to do the right thing? Right. And like, that's the part that hits me because now, now a little bit of background is helpful to you is the problem. Yes, he reached out to stop it and he wasn't supposed to be touching it, but then again, it got onto the cart. Someone picked it up. And so there has to be more to the story and the more to the story is it's on the cart to begin with. So numbers four lays out here, so he's supposed to handle all the holy things. I know we look at it and go like, Hey man, Jesus broke a lot of barriers, but like the physical representations of like the holiness of God is probably a good thing. And that's what all of this was trying to communicate, especially these people didn't have scriptures. They couldn't go back and read Numbers four, They lived in numbers four. And so, yeah, when you tore the tabernacle down, like you had to fold it in a certain way, you had to put the goat skin on the top. You had to have certain dudes could touch it. Not anybody could just come in there and like profane all the stuff because other dudes were cleaned. Like they had to go through this process of being cleansed so that they could touch the stuff and not die. And so they were well aware of this. There's this, and these dudes we think are probably part of the right tribe of dudes, the Kohathites who are able to do this, But numbers four says you gotta use the poles. You carry it via poles probably. And this was a good question someone had asked is like, is this just God like, hey, I gave you a specific, it doesn't really matter what it was. It's just that I told you to do it. I actually think God has them carry it by poles for this very problem. You don't put it on a cart because it could tip over. And yeah, I suppose all these dudes holding the poles could drop it, but it seems less likely.

Plus they actually have the physical weight of bearing this thing as opposed to finding a tech. I know we don't think of the card as technology, but finding technology to do this thing for them. But anyway, I say all that to say, who's I'll reach out and God, God gets them. And so the question is, is that like, are there things, can you have the right intent? You're trying to do the right thing. It feels honoring not to let it hit the ground. And God's like, but no, that isn't what I asked for. Even though your heart was in the right place, even though you were thinking you were doing a good thing. And there was a consequence to this. I do think there's something unique to them. They compare in some ways to it's not Elihu, Alhu, it's Aaron's kids who gave the strange fire, who did the sacrifice that they weren't supposed to do. At the very beginning of teaching people to what it looks like to do sacrifices, they screwed it up. At the very beginning of a king that was actually gonna follow Yahweh, someone screws something like this up and they die. And the same thing happens in the early church. The very beginning of what it looks like to live in light of who Jesus was,

you get Ananias and Sapphira. And so do I think this is happening to all the people who ever screwed up over all time? No, but I think of very clear examples of in its infancy, God steps in. So anyway, I'm thinking of this thing and I'm thinking, well, like shapes of things of where they feel like they're honoring, but they don't have a substance to them and they're not following what God said. And so my prayer, when I caught myself praying these words. And so, so anyway, I'm thinking about that kind of thing. And then I'm thinking about like being, praying with other people and listening to sermons and stuff. And just got to thinking about are the power of our words and like some in prayer, I think specifically, because your whole, it's not a modern term, but like you're holding space, you got a space which you're like, I'm trying to express myself to God. And

I'm not hypercritical about the words we're using, but sometimes we're using language that if I, like, I was like, hear it or hear myself say it, I'm like, that didn't mean anything. And it's not edifying to me or to God or to the people around me, if my mouth is moving and I'm just using phrases that don't actually mean anything. I do, and one of things I think there is some of that is church culture stuff. You grow up and you hear other people pray and you hear them say a thing and then so then you start saying it and then it doesn't occur to you that like, what did I just say that? Like what does that mean? And would that mean anything

within people who follow Jesus? I think they can wash over a lot of that stuff who's like, oh, I kind of get it. But like, if you were trying to pray with someone who's like new to the faith or doesn't know Jesus, and they hear you say afraid, like, I just think it's something that may, it may be right for some refinement on, are we using our words well? And like, call back to like even the example prayers that Jesus gave, when we see people pray in the Bible, no one prays anywhere near as long as we're praying, just realistically. And it's not, I'm saying it's not fine to pray for a long time. I'm just saying

Jesus example prayer isn't super long. And all the evidences that we have of like people talking about prayer, it's just not the same thing really. And It's not like it's inherently righteous that it's longer. I'm always cautious. Well, actually, me stop there. I have other thoughts, but let me stop there again. Like, is there any of that? Like what, if it's like, Hey, Ben, you're being critical too. I'm hoping on me, but if it's hypercritical about it and it's fine, I'm okay hearing that too, but what are your thoughts on that? Oh boy, like in the just language

thing, can spend time with people and it doesn't take long for me to know, to be able to figure out, kind of smell out what their denominational background is. Yep. Because we tend to speak like the people we're around, or that we've been raised around, and I can't think of any specifics, I can tell people who are in like an ultra Pentecostal, those just word things differently as opposed to say a Baptist or whatever, a Catholic. Often all of those, they're not necessarily wrong, like you say, it's just words that come out of their community, their culture that

didn't really say anything. So I don't know if it's helpful. I've always tried not to, I'm sure I have my own. Mean, we always think we do, you know? I've got to have something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's probably true in every area of our life though, it's not just in their Christian, you know, I can sit and talk with my wife and then think, don't know what we were just talking about, I was just using words and so was she, and it's like, I dialed out, know? Maybe it's part of our laziness or

the busyness of our life, we're just full of clutter and we just gotta keep it, the noise going or something, I don't know. Yeah, that's actually, that's a really good comparison because I think I've got this, the same thing happens to me in relationships. And the thing is, is that like, maybe it's relieving ourselves of the need to speak. And that's really what it meant. Like what if you talk less, I'm not like, it's not like shut up. It's not what I mean. But I mean like, is sometimes the thing that we are like screaming to say to God or whatever, especially for praying out loud, does it feel like we have to say a thing where you know what, like, don't actually, I don't actually have to say that. I don't have to find the words for it. Sometimes like, I still think it's important. I think it's fine. I think it's great. And sometimes you're, you're sharing words with people, but like one of my other cautions is like, try not to pray after I've taught because it feels like there's a real risk that I then preach

the prayer. Yeah. And I really dislike that because then it becomes, it uses the means of which we are supposed to interact and petition and praise God as a means to reinforce some point that I made. And like, it's not completely abnormal to have heard a thing as a Christian group and go, Lord, we're asking you to help us with this thing. Like, it's fine. But like, I'm so cautious about preaching through a prayer. Lord, you know, we're supposed to love one another. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you just preached all about that. We get it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, don't know. Mike, what do you what do you think? What's your reaction here? I don't know. I I I you didn't really provide enough concrete examples of what you're talking, like, what you're talking about for me to grasp onto. I think I know kind of, I guess, what you're talking about and like Yeah. I I might just be way more gracious in this area. Like, I I I think I I can think of even a couple examples this week, right? Like Yeah. One of the things we did this week is pray over the school before everybody went back to school. And like I was out of words

two minutes in. Yeah. Like not, and this wasn't like standing in a group praying. Like I was just walking halls, standing in front of rooms and praying. And I don't have that much to say. And the things I did say, and the things that I was talking to God about, I mean, I kind of got to what I wanted to ask the Lord to involve Himself with, it didn't take that long, and then I was out. And then I found myself, I didn't think about it that long. I didn't curate what my prayer was gonna be. And then I found myself just saying attributes of God.

And that was it, I was just in my head, I'm like, love, joy, peace, patience, like I'm going through the fruits of the spirit, and I'm like, mercy has to be all over this thing, your grace has to be all over this thing. And like I didn't curate it in a way that like it would, like I would say, like I probably sounded like a babbling fool to God while I was praying, but I also just felt like my heart was just outpouring words that I know are true about Him and actions that He has taken. And so like, I don't know. Like, I I I did pray the whole time. Like, I filled half hour Yeah. With repetitive, like, same words over and over again. And, like,

yeah, I probably talked more than I should, but, like, it wasn't like, it's just like conversations with other people are different. Sometimes your conversations with God are different. Right? And so like the sole purpose of me being there was to call upon him to interact with a thing, like calling on like the the attributes of him, his justice, his mercy, his glory, his grace, all the stuff, right? And like just filling like rooms with the holy spirit and things being uncomfortable if that's not where it came from and they gotta go. And so like sometimes it's like when when I'm praying that way, I'm not stopping to pause and go, by the way, God, what would you have me do tomorrow? Where would my heart be open to tomorrow? Will you slow me down so I can find conversations you want me to be in? Because that's not what we're talking about right now. We're talking about this very specific thing, you know? And so like, would just say sometimes prayers are very different, you know, and how you're talking to God. And like, I talk to my wife this way, sometimes I download

all the things I want her to help me with. And sometimes I'm like, how was your day? Speaking to my life? You know what I'm saying? And so like, I think that's one, I'm gonna put that over in category one and two, like as far as phrases and stuff go, sometimes I feel very encouraged because people will say something when they're praying in the way that they talk to God, I'm like, I never would have used that phrase. And for some reason that helps me frame a thought. And I give you an example from my own life, I don't know why I say things smell like Jesus, but I do. Yeah, Right? Like, I use that phrase a lot, and I don't know, like I don't use it super casually, but I do use it a ton. Yeah. And like, people are like, that makes a lot of sense to me. And then they'll pray for things like that. I'm like, I didn't curate that in a way that I'm like, I hope people start saying smells like Jesus, it's a sweet phrase. You know what I'm saying? It just makes sense to me.

What it feels like honestly is when Moses was hiding in the rock and God covered his face and he walked by. I'm like, you didn't see it, but that smelled like Jesus just don't walk back there. You know I'm saying? It felt like a thing. So anyway, even we were standing in a prayer circle here yet this week, Like, it it it was it was long. It was funny though. These two kids came up out of nowhere. Just got done with lifting weights or whatever. And there's this giant circle of Christians out and getting ready to get in on a prayer and they don't know what's coming. So these two teenage kids roll up, just start talking to one of the coaches or whatever and the prayer starts up. And those boys, they got caught in a thirty minute Jesus prayer thought. And here's the thing, to some of Ben's point earlier, I do think it's important that you

use all of your faculties and your wisdom and the presence of the Holy Spirit when you're talking about things in front of people who don't know Jesus. But honestly, even in that particular situation and mostly our Sunday gatherings, I don't give a rip. That's not my discipleship time. We're talk like we're a bunch of people who love Jesus, and we're gonna talk in a language that we are used to, and that we can get on board because like right now we're not in the middle of Downtown Pennsylvania trying to spread the gospel. We're a family that's getting together to praise and worship. And so like, I think it's pretty okay not to use welcoming and oblique language

and use very specific phrases and whatever that sound real churchy, because that's where we're at. We're in church. We're with everybody that's familiar with who Jesus is. And if we're using Sunday morning time as our only introduction to Jesus, Yeah, that's probably why that's kind of rough. But like kitchen table conversations, I don't use the word gospel ever, because no one knows what that means. So I don't know, I'm guessing it probably just does not bother me quite as much. Like I think that it might bother you. Like, I don't know. Just don't take that stuff in very harsh, guess. Yeah. Well, And I, but boy, I really hope I

didn't say that in such a way that implies harsh or ungracious. I was try I was specifically trying not to do that. And so I if I did that, that's that wasn't what I was getting at. I was like, it was more about the if if there is a if there's a place for like a little, there's all kinds of places at which we are refining. Is it, is this not a, is this not an appropriate place to do it? Like, like all you have the way that you communicate,

like this is it, this is how the things like the ideas and stuff get communicated and if they're not, I don't know, if they're not clear, like can they cause confusion even in the presence of a positive pattern? And maybe not, maybe it's just a bear, maybe it's maybe because of like a lot of a lot of the stuff that I'm doing, like your language vary, like it really matters because you're talking about trying

like their battles of ideas and so like your ability to kind of clearly specify that is not the same as maybe in all the same situations, that's probably right. So like, yeah, that was one of the things I felt like reasonable to me is that like maybe I am just, I have a particular bent to take the thing in in a particular way, but like I do, I will say this, I guess here's what I will say, Like when Jesus talks about prayer,

there is a posturing to it that he's cautious of. And so I guess it would be a place where, especially probably when you have an audience. So maybe this isn't pastors. Here's the thing, I think it's definitely a pastor's thing, and I think it's the pair of you. Like your entire gifting as preachers and teachers is to be very careful that your words match the words of Jesus, the heart of the way that a Bible is

presenting something that the biblical account is accurate, and thought of well, and reasoned through. And maybe that is a cultural difference, and maybe that is a modernity problem, if it's even a problem, but prayer is way loftier than that. People will use phrases or thoughts, and even a couple that I've heard this week that I don't usually think, I wouldn't use normally, but even an example, someone said, Lord, were talking about students,

will you help our kids who know you to bring others to the table? Will you just bring them to the table? And this is not a biblical reference. No, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? But it's just a phrase, but if someone would have used that offhand out of the book of James, you'd been like, Greek doesn't say anything about tables. And what we start to bring in is nuances that have to do with dinner time, and then our theology gets way messed up. And you guys are protecting this thing two layers back, and people don't pray that way. Like, they tend to pray in, a stream of conscience, like heart emotive kind of way that is not near as guarded as the presentation of Scripture. Yeah, and I don't again, nothing about that would strike me one way or the other.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think, and maybe that is where it does matter. I actually don't like what you're doing, it's kind of like tongues really. The things that you're doing on your own that require interpretation, even whether it's like an old, like it's cultural church thing that you're saying. Like, that's fine because you're actually, when I was praying at the school, I've actually found I was intentionally resetting when I was reaching, I was like, my goal is to touch every locker and I think I made it. And so when I found that I wasn't like that my, sometimes there was specific about like a room that we're passing and like, hey guard against like how reanne, what is real, what is true about the things that are being taught here or something like that. And then like, if I didn't have a specific thing, it was just like touch the locker and this one Lord, and this one specifically,

and this kid here, right? Like it was very just like, I was probably talking the whole time, but it was like that. And so I actually think that's fine. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think there's an issue there at all. I'm curious what your thing is. Yeah. I feel like maybe I'm not understanding it. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'll think I may be able to think about it some more. I do like I do appreciate. I don't like preach praying. That drives me nuts. Yeah. Like, it just feels although the thing is is like if something hits though it's the thing is like that that heck can happen on a Sunday morning too or prayer. Like, I've listened to a good teaching and then I'll I'll pray that example for a week. I'm like, god, remind me of that ark in the polls. Like, you do things intentionally. Yeah. You know? And like where where if like a preacher taught a sermon with the ark in the polls and then prayed about the ark and the poles really affecting our lives the next week, you'd be like, you cheese ball. Right? What are you doing? You're trying to send us out with a go to prayer, but, like, I will turn around and pray that prayer for myself personally and not think anything of it. Yeah. Because I'm like, that hit me. That helps reorient my mind and my heart to go, when you start to feel like this, it's a little greater than you think, think about them carting that pole situation, right? God cares. Yeah. Okay. I'll think about it some more. If

there's a realm to it, it's probably a caution around what feels like platitudes, which are probably fine in stream of conscious prayers, but becomes something different. What if people believe the platitudes? Like what is a platitude to me is like the whole ship of hope for somebody Yeah, okay. Well, that would get to the point though.

Is it okay to say anything as long as it drew someone to Jesus? Or did that's it matter that it was true? The thing, I'm not evangelizing them with prayers. There's a conversation between me and Jesus that people are listening to, so I'm not working on evangelism while I'm praying. I guess maybe that's what I'm saying. I don't, yeah, I don't know. Don't, maybe I don't under, I don't follow. I don't quite follow to go what I've, yeah, I mean, if you're just asking for something, I suppose it doesn't matter, but like, basically the question that you're getting to is like, does it matter that it's a true or right representation of God if my intents were good? Does it matter that the words actually don't reflect something that's real or true that God has given us? Yeah, I just I feel like I could really use an example. Yeah. Alright. I'll I'll try to I'll try to think of some. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Hey. You're listening to live from the path. Well, we already talked about that guy. We were talking about that guy. What That was a big nothing burger we talked about to guy. Yeah. I know. He was he was Here's the thing I wanted to have happened. It definitely didn't happen. He was an intermediary.

He was he was he was just supposed to move us from from one thing to the next. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Here we go. Here we go. 13 oh, hey. Hey. Pastor reveals what happened when he shared the gospel with Ozzy Osbourne. Oh, boy. Pastor Dylan Novak is Hold on a minute. Now here's the thing. Yep. How many times have you written a news article when you done talked to somebody about sharing to Jesus? I don't know that he didn't write it, somebody else wrote it. Okay, let's go. Okay, Pastor Dylan Novak has spent the last decade

doing something truly distinct, intentionally taking the gospel directly to some of the most famous names in Hollywood. Novak, founder of the celebrity evangelist ministry, has personally shared Christ with more than 2,000 actors, musicians, and public figures, and his encounters offer an opportunity for these individuals to embrace truth. He recently made headlines over a twenty twenty three interaction he had with rock legend Ozzy Osbourne, an encounter that received renewed national attention after Osbourne's death last month. Novak told the Christian Post that he met Osbourne and his family at a convention two years ago and spent time sharing the gospel with each member of the musician's family. He did his research beforehand and read an old interview in which the singer said he identified more as Christian than anything, and he wished he could better understand scripture. So Novak arrived at the event with a gift, a new living translation bible personalized with Osborn's name and accompanied by handwritten letters for each family member. Hey. Wouldn't that be you think that you the guy at the bible stamping factory, like, gets this order and goes, oh, wow. Oh, this is the real one? Yeah. The the blizzard of owls wants a copy of the the new living translation. This is what he typically does to show each celebrity that he cares enough for them to take the time to personalize every gift. I hate this so far.

Novak said Osbourne reaction was truly warm and receptive with the singer immediately thumbing through the bible. Ozzy was very kind. Novak recalled. He immediately turned to the gospels and even made the comment, I can understand this. The pastor had positive conversation with the rest of the family as well, including Osbourne's son, Jack. Interestingly, a few weeks later, Jack reportedly saw Novak in another event and stopped him to reveal something deeply encouraging. The bible he gave him had made a big impact. In fact, Osborn ended up demanding the bible and Novak's letter after the autograph signing ended and before going to bed. He pitched a fit before he would go to his room saying, where's my bible? I want my bible, Jack told him. I don't know. Does this sound right? Sound like a legit story? I have questions after this. Yeah. Ozzy Osbourne heard the gospel. Novak said it's incredible. And it's because of the effort we put in to follow what Jesus told us to do, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Okay. I'm a just stop it right here. Yeah. I listen. Could you have made it any more about that person? Do know what I'm saying? Like, you're setting up a really misunderstanding of what a sacrificing surrendering kingdom looks to be. You're like, here, showed up with this Bible with your name on it. I did research on you. You know what I'm saying? I don't even know you. I did research on you so I could like have this conversation. It's like, it just feels like you're setting. I don't know, it just feels like you're setting people up. I don't know. I don't know why I don't like this. Maybe my heart's just in a wrong place, but like, it's not that I like, do I feel like it's wrong to feel like to get to know somebody and where they're coming from when you're gonna have the conversation?

Like, no. That would make sense. Like, that's how everybody has a conversation. I know a little about you. You know a little about me, and we use what our common stuff we know to, like, base the way we respond to each other. That's just regular. But, like, this, like, targeted, like, approach at celebrities in general and Ozzy Osbourne in particular, don't know, just something feels gross about it. Am I wrong? I don't See, this is where like, could you make a case that are they hitting the normal places in which people are sharing Jesus? I don't know. Maybe not. And so It seems kind of sensational. Yeah, I guess it's kind of interesting is that like someone has to spread the Gospel in Hawaii,

and so we don't go I mean that's true. You know, like, Oh look at you, look at the sweet gig you got. Doesn't it feel like I'm saying, Jesus said that it's nearly impossible for a rich man to understand Gospels, so I will target rich people. You know what I'm saying? Like, ah, but then but then right after that, Jesus says, but with god, all things are possible. But that's the thing. Was like, well, god and me because I will target the rich. Well, okay. Well, but what's the difference between that and you going to a poor person? Still god and you? Yeah. But I I don't even know that I do that with a poor person. Hey, Brian. I got you a bible with your name on it. You know what I'm saying? Like Right. It just feels like the like the the calling of Matthew 24 is like as you go. You know what I'm saying? Like, the the the targeted thing is weird to me. Yeah. Although, I mean, I I know that there's gotta be parts of that that I am not living that out right? Right? Because like I purposely pray for people. In particular people. You know what I'm saying? And like purposely set conversations up that we end up talking about Jesus. Oh yeah. And so I don't know why this one feels so gross but I just don't like it. Well, I I I wonder just statistically how many people have come to faith because a stranger came to them to tell them the Gospel. It's happened, I mean I get it,

but isn't it by far normally a friend, a neighbor, a family member, it's someone, one on one contact, the as you go thing. You're rubbing shoulders with people. It's not like I'm going around getting Bibles with people's names on them and targeting them. If it works, great, but I mean, would not respond well if someone came up with any book with my name on it and say I want to change your whole world. Let's read this. Book you wrote, they're like wow you bought it. Yeah. Alright. Yeah, I think we've struggled with that before even with conversations with people who've had what they believed like they point as success with pamphlet ministries. Yeah. And I'm sure the guy with the repent or you know or burn sign gets one guy every you know every six months or something he's like what we're after the one not the 99. I'm just like, can you can make all the things sound fine. Yeah. I well, here, this this will probably this will help

relieve some ambiguity over the man personally. The the article finishes Novak Toll oh, sorry. It's a very unreached people group, he said of celebrities, noting though that these people have massive sway and influence. There are people who listen to their favorite celebrity a lot quicker than they'll listen to you or me. Novak told the Christian Post he hopes that his ministry will be fully self sustaining over the next decade as it's an expensive endeavor to attend these events and evangelize. In fact, a single weekend convention can cost thousands of dollars with individual meet and greet fees for each celebrity. But those interested in supporting Novak can sponsor bibles and help cover event costs by visiting the celebrity evangelist website. There you go. Yeah. I I I don't know. I

don't like it. I I still I can't I can't put it in my head for this to make any sense to me. Yeah. But but nobody? Nobody goes, hey. Let's go talk to the celebrities? Or you Why? Just You hope his hair cutter does it. The stylist loves Jesus. Here's the thing. It's like I I wouldn't even know how to do a gospel presentation in like ten, twenty minutes. I couldn't do it. Like, just couldn't do it. There's too many new there's too much to know. God is too big. His his character is too unbelievable that, like, there's no way you could you could plumb the depths to even convince a and maybe God does amazing things, right? But like, I can't think of anything you could sell me on in ten minutes. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just, I can't buy it. And so like, that's why the as you go seems to do a lot more is because it comes with words and actions. Right? I'm backing up the things that I'm saying. You're looking at like a sacrificial life, and God's change in the way that you conduct yourself, and the way that you talk to people around you. And even if all the things that someone told me about Jesus were true, if I can't see that in actual results, then it's just you you you know, flabber babbing. You know what I'm saying? Like, the the the midnight televangelist guy is doing worse.

And so, like, I don't know. He's got a picture with Tom Cruise. That obviously didn't work. I wouldn't have put that one on the front page. Yeah. I I think the thing is is, like, you're basically acknowledging the celebrity of it. You know what I'm saying? As if it it holds any weight anywhere. Like, even the phrase like they can influence people, that is true, but like, it just feels like that's the Holy Spirit's job to go after these people and like, God will handle

the ways and the means of which they come to know him and opportunities. And it's not like they haven't heard it before. If you're 45 years old and you live in The United States, you know who Jesus is and you said, nope. Right? Like, it's come to you before heard. And so like, I don't know. I feel like I'm being really close minded about this, but like I hate it. I'm trying debating myself, like, I'll raise money to go to Africa to talk to strangers about Jesus,

but they've come to a church service to hear it. Well, we have done some street stuff. I mean, is advertising for a church wrong? We don't think that. You know, like, hey, we're doing this, come. Yeah, but then it still leaves them like, ah, yes I will, and no I won't. I guess it's the same with the stars. I don't know, it just seems like a weird target, a very small niche, and he's trying to raise thousands of dollars because all these glorious events he's gotta go to. I don't know, or like the triple X church,

a few years ago they'd go at all the porn conventions or whatever they are, and talk to the porn stars, know, and it's like, Was that effective? I don't know, I don't remember. This is where I think I'm humbled, right? Is because like I've seen the worst preaching, and even people with like the sign, or churches that I find to be altogether disobedient. And people are coming to know Jesus in these places, despite. And

so every time I try to put my foot in the sand and go, Why would you go to the porn convention and even put yourself at risk like that? And they're like, well, that's where they're at. And so like, I feel the same way about the local bar. Like if you can go there with a good heart and clean living and show up and actually love on people well and present who Jesus is both through your actions and the conversation, I don't see why you shouldn't go, that's where they're at. But like, I don't know, maybe it's the name on the Bible, I don't know why that's gotten me goosed, but like it's just like presumptive, man. My Instagram is full of this crap, of people showing up and

basically wedding crashing festivals that Christianity is not celebrated in. You know what I'm saying? Or like bobbing, or street preachers, right? In general street preachers they just seem pushy, and loud. Like they are trying to present God's heart and God's truths at the same time, and it's usually the truths with like a punch in the face. And I'm like, who? But here's the thing, Pentecost was that. Like literally Peter stood up and be like, here's

the truth of the deal, not like how you feeling today? You know, he's just like bam. And so like every time I think I know, turns out I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea. I guess I'm thinking it takes all kinds. I'm just reading the background of this dude. He says, I'm Dylan Novak, founder of these part of it put off, like, why would you call it celebrity evangelist? Like, like, feels

flashy. Yeah. But he says, I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior when I was eight years old. Sounds like a Baptist. Since today I got saved, I wanted to tell everyone I could about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When I was 13 and an avid superhero fan, I watched an interview with Margot Kidder where she stated that she was an atheist. My heart sank as I heard this. I prayed that night for God to send someone to tell Margot about Jesus before it was eternally too late. That night God convicted my heart that I should be the one to share the Gospel with her. Now this was interesting, it's because like this pattern of I saw a thing, I prayed for a thing, and felt I was supposed to personally do something about it, you're like, Yeah, no, you get behind that. Right. And so he says, I got gospel tracts from my church and gave them to Miss Kitter at his local superhero convention. She was receptive and little did I know where God would lead me from there. For the next seven years I continued doing this whenever I went to an autograph event. I would Google the beliefs of everyone I was going to meet so I was prepared for any questions or responses I may encounter. In July 2015, I saw that James Taylor was coming to do a concert several hours for me. I researched what he believed, and I saw an interview from Rolling Stone where he said he was agnostic but would be open to listening if anyone took the time to share something with him. Immediately, there was so much I wanted to say and share with mister Taylor, but I didn't know how much I could get with him if I would even be able to meet him at all. After praying about what to do, I said to write him a personal letter explaining the gospel in case I didn't have much time to talk with him. Long story short, God worked a miracle where I was able to meet James that day. We had a very nice conversation which ended with him telling me that he would treasure the gift and read everything I gave him. That night I gave my hobby and my whole life completely over to God. I told him I would do whatever it was he wanted me to do. He's got a picture of him and James Taylor.

Well his heart certainly appears right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. So yeah. It just takes all kinds, I guess. Yeah. I'm not giving that any money. I don't know whether I should repent of my thoughts or not. Here's the the thing is is like, remember my Instagram preacher from a couple weeks ago? He's like, what we're looking for is Fruit. Fruit. You know what I'm saying? But like, I mean there's

been swaths of time in ministry where you're like, we're not producing fruit, we're actually losing fruit it seems. Like whatever fruit we had is like rescinding. And so like people go through this, like ministries go through this, like your personal walk with Jesus goes through this thing where you're like, I feel like God's doing all the things and it's going great. And then like you believe that your faithfulness have changed, and the whole thing just kind of feels like it's right, right now? And so like, I don't know, like what's the time period for fruit?

You know? Do you have any celebrities that know Jesus as a result of our investment of time and money? Yeah, you feel like He would Well, here's the thing. You feel like he would mention it. But then again, if he's if he's in the right spot, he wouldn't. Right. He wouldn't go True. Snag these 10 people for Jesus. I he doesn't ever say, like, hey. It's been very effective. Not just people have been receptive. So, like, I, you know, I might say generally, yes, it's working. At least planting seeds. Right? I mean Yeah. But but this is where I struggle because that's a cover word for all kinds of crap a lot where you're like, I mean I don't know. The time. Well, see, if my friend Philip said, man, I just feel like going to the desert and talk to this eunuch, I'd probably be like, man, stop it. Yeah. You know, and then he'd show up in Acts eight, so Yeah, it was awkward. How did that guy get here? But also maybe it's got a little bit of a grift to it only because it's a website

and with pictures of it's like Paul posing next to the people he baptized in Ephesus and be like, Hey, super old dude, my ministry keeps rocking. And he was the most non glorify his own operation. And so if our major example of missionary work is Paul, you're like, I don't know, it looks like you take mostly beatings and collect mostly losses,

you know, but like you just keep going. The plan to go to Lystra soon sure is kind of expensive though. Yeah. Guess you could send some cash. At least Timothy would help me out. I don't know. Yeah. Don't know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He is a youth teen pastor at Hennard's Chapel Missionary. Okay. Yeah. Baptist Church. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Language will give you away every time, bro. Interesting. Okay. Anyway, I don't know. I guess pray for that guy. Finally, let's let's just take a quick run through these here. Oh, yeah. That was that was the that was Aussie pastor. 13 tests that every

Christian must pass. Pass it. Oh. Scripture is replete with examples of divine tests, seasons, and circumstances God allows his people to pass through to reveal and refine the conditions of their hearts. Unfortunately, many believers today misunderstand the purpose of testing and trials. When hardships arise, they assume it's either demonic or due to their failure. However, a mature view of God's dealing helps us recognize that even our tests are redemptive, purposeful, and fatherly. The objective of this article is to equip the people of God to understand his ways more deeply so they can mature into the image of Christ. Every test if responded to in faith can be a catalyst for spiritual growth and deeper intimacy. Here's what I know, it's like some hard things come by,

and like I never quite know, because that's a fair point, whether it was created because of my own broken sinfulness. Right? Yeah. Or, I mean, I don't give probably spiritual oppression, maybe in presence of evil things, enough credence, I don't tend to. And because I can't tell whether it was sin, of my sin, or someone else's, or the presence of an

evil spiritual context or whatever, I always land on God did allow this. That's my ultimate filter, it's like whether He caused it, whether He's refining me for it, whether it's as a result of my own sin or somebody else's, at the end of the day God did allow this to happen, because it did have to get through Him. And so that one I think is like the best question

to have to wrestle with, opposed to like some of it I feel like we are just guessing. They're like the devil's really after me today, I'm like you don't cause enough waves to get the devil out of his chair. Like, I mean Billy Graham probably would be like yeah the devil be bothering me, you know I'm saying, but like, I don't know. It's always intrigued me, you know, where Paul says, I wanted to go here, but the Lord closed the doors, like how did you know that was the Lord closing the door, or you were attacked by the enemy? How did he know? He seemed pretty confident. Yes, God's saying, nope, not this way, not now. Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. Well, to Mike's perspective,

regardless of whether an enemy attempted to do something, God permitted it, it's still God's responsibility, which you often see by the way, as look at the way the Old Testament specifically treated like it will give credit or representation to God or to King that they didn't have to do personally because it basically goes, this person is ultimately responsible or this entity is responsible. And so like God, it could be, I think it's overdone to be like every time that God spoke to someone that he had to do it through a prophet. I don't think that's necessarily true,

but it's very, very possible that half the time when it says like, God asked God, like David asked God for something and God responded and told him, go ahead and take Kiri Al Jorim, it's because the prophet came to him and said, yeah, God told me or whatever, like, or the gambling sticks, like showed it out, not that God boomed from somewhere because that's how they would have thought of it. Is that like, yeah, God enables this type of thing and so He's responsible and so He gets credit. 13 tests every Christian must pass. Number one, the test of lack. Example, the Israelites in the wilderness. When God led His people out of Egypt, He deliberately brought them into the wilderness, a place with no visible provision. Why? To test what was in their hearts. Deuteronomy eight:two.

Sadly the Israelites failed this test. Instead of trusting the God who would just split the Red Sea, they grumbled and fantasized about returning to Egypt. This test reveals whether we trust God when resources are scarce. Will we trust Jehovah Jireh even when the pantry is empty? Or will we panic, complain, and revert to old comforts? This is what I'm talking about. This is good example. Freaking Jehovah Jireh. You don't even know what you're saying that there's no there's no purpose to say that in a crowd. You wanna say whisper Jehovah Jireh to yourself while you're praying? I could I could give a flip really, but like there's no reason for this here. Yeah. I know if I appreciate the broad swath here, because it's a relative lack, you know what I'm saying, like America don't know lack at all. Yeah. Right. And so like there's one, and two, like I know plenty of people, like they've never gone through the lack. You know I'm saying? Like they came from x,

they used x to like with wisdom and confidence to continue on that lack never happened to them cause they did what they were supposed to do. You know what I'm saying? Instead of squandering their parents' cash, throwing away all their blessings to live like a rebellious turd, they just took what was provided for them, and used it to continue on doing good things. And so like, I have seen that. And so I don't know that's like every Christian has to go through like a resource lack, we'll put it that way. Nor is it every, like I think that one of the risks here is seeing everything, too many things in the bucket of like, God is testing or refining you. Like people who love and serve Jesus have died of starvation, for sure. There's children that it's happening to us. So it's a common atheist thing to go like, how can I, you're asking me to believe in God that allows

children who are not perpetuating evil out into the world to die? And so like, I think there's a risk in like the success, the success is like, I trust Yahweh, but it actually may not modify my earthly circumstances, and there's a significant amount of

people not being able to sustain their way through these types of things simply because of the sinfulness of the people behavior around them. And so I like, yeah, maybe that's where I would, maybe the posturing of the article or the framing is a little bit challenging to me if not done carefully because like, it's not always a test, like Sometimes there's just consequences. That was the beginning of the article, Did you cause this? Because the Bible also says men don't work, don't eat. And guys not like, man I'm going through a real time of lack right now. You're going through a time of lazy. You don't have any food because you don't work. You refuse to accept responsibility

for things. And so, yeah, you're not in a test of lack. You're in a consequence of lack. Yeah. And actually, and you probably, it's probably even incumbent upon you to take that responsibility on yourself about the kid I was just talking Like your laziness is not serving you or that kid. Yeah. And you bear some level of responsibility. I often actually, that's been kind of weighing on me over the last few weeks is every time I go, I buy something that maybe I don't really need, but feel like having or drinking or something like that. And I think I could have put this money to something more productive in the world. How am I justifying this? Like, why is this okay when, you know, it could do work in Zimbabwe, it could do work in Pakistan, it could do work with somebody who like is better off than both of those two countries, but is still significantly lacking more than I am. And then like, I don't dog on it. It's probably right. It's an okay refining. It doesn't mean you gotta cut everything, but like I'm okay being refined there. I should be. Alright, two, test of suffering. Job, example, Job. Job didn't suffer because he was unrighteous, but because he was righteous. God even said to Satan, have you considered my servant Job? His suffering was a test of integrity, faith, and perseverance. Did he win? Did we

say Job succeeded? No. And also that test wasn't about Job. Well, was kind of about Job. Like it was mostly towards like between God and Satan. Job was the pawn. Right? It wasn't like God just set out one day to go, I will test Job to deepen his faith. Like Satan brought up a thing and brought up Job and God's like, Yeah, we can use Job if you want to. He could have said, We could use Stephen or a Hindu. And God's like, Sure, what pick a guy? I'm good. Which is actually either I knew this at some point and I've forgotten it or just now putting it together, but like think of is it in the book of John where like

Jesus tells Peter, like Satan has asked to sift you like wheat. Right. And it's like it has a very similar vibe to like where like God is allowing to this point of the article, there's a testing there, which otherwise I think refines what Peter becomes and God allows that type of thing, but like, I don't, yeah, I don't know, like yes, everyone must pass it

if it happens, I don't, don't That's so weird the way it's worded. Yeah, so do you feel like it's like people try to paint a picture when stuff like this happens, right? Like so, and maybe I'm settling on the easiest one where I don't ever have to paint God with a brush that maybe I'm afraid to paint him with, because like, I'm okay with God creating

gardens from graves, bad situations God can redeem and turn into great things, but him being the cause of them to get to the garden, like I probably spend less time thinking about it that way, because then it feels like he's encroaching on free will of generally other people. So it's basically like the sinfulness of someone else has put us in this situation, and

then God will can redeem, and can bring back into glory these things, because He makes all things new. So, this is a thing that is possible for Him to do, and He will do it. But he was not the cause, he was not the guy that hardened Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh's heart was hard anyway, and God just allowed him to continue down the path that he was. Like the Bible does not say that, right? The Bible says God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Yeah. And I read it in a way that goes, Pharaoh's heart was hard anyway. His

heart was hard in either case, and God was not going to force him to unharden it, so he continued down his path. And so the Bible does not read that way, and so I think maybe it's just easier for me to process I think, or I don't like the thought that God creates suffering merely to get to the better, because it's generally not just a one person consequence, you know? Yeah, and I think if any of the, like the truths behind some of the judgments in Revelation,

like I ought to very much give the impression that things were happening in God's hand for the purposes of refining And it goes back to the like, I care about the notion of free will more than I care about the trust that says that God is okay to violate it in these ways. Yeah. Which is really the question. So like, and maybe the example tends to be just Israel,

right? Because like, God does allow them to be taken into captivity, God does allow them to lose their land, right? But like they turned their back on them, like it seems like a consequence of their behavior more than, and God says, Don't worry, Isaiah's all, I got you. You know what I'm saying? Like I will turn this around. And so maybe that's where the broader story of the Bible, I guess maybe conflates into a general thought that goes, look, people cause this and God will get them out. God can rescue. Opposed to God stuck his omnipotent hand in the middle of something. Number three of the 13 tests that every Christian must pass, the test of praise. Proverbs 2seven 21 says, The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold, but people are tested by their praise. Praise is a strange but subtle test. Can we receive applause without being seduced by it? Many leaders have fallen, not because of hardship, but because of flattery. This test reveals whether we crave the affirmation of man more than the approval of God.

I can't say I remember ever hearing that proverb. Is it in different language in the ESV? The crucible. I don't even know what a crucible is. Yeah, no. And that's never come up in a secular Sullivan. How be can known? Is that even what it's getting at? Like the crucible for silver and the furnace for gold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are how they're refined, but people are tested or made sure that they're worth something by their praise. Yeah. Although but is the there who does the there belong to? Like, is it by what they praise or praise that they're getting? Oh, yeah. Find the Good question. I wouldn't have read it the way that he's saying out of the gate. It doesn't mean it's not right, but Proverbs 2seven

21. Crucible. I don't know what that is. Is it like a is it like a blacksmithing tool? Yeah. It's I I thought what about I'm thinking the the the pistol or the mortar. Like they that they smash up pills with? Yeah. That's probably not right. But that's what that's what it came to mind. I'm gonna look it up. Everybody can look something up.

Okay. So here I'll start in these seem related, certain like it's right after iron sharpens iron. So Proverbs 2seven 17 Iron sharpens iron and one person sharpens another whoever tends a fig tree will eat its fruit, and whoever looks after his master will be honored. Okay so you get the benefit of your efforts as water reflects the face so the heart reflects the person. Okay so you see the

heart accurately renders you, I guess. Sheol and Abaddon are never satisfied and people's eyes are never satisfied. Okay, as a crucible refines silver and a smelter refines gold, so a person should refine his praise. Well, it's way different.

Oh, wait. Hey, there's 22. Though you grind a fool in a mortar with a pestle along with grain. Maybe I've read this. He will not separate his foolishness from it. Okay, so 21, As a crucible refines silver and a smelter refines gold, so a person should refine his praise. So I actually do think this representing someone going the other direction, what you praise. So your praise being refined and being pointed to what it actually should be

to something in its purity as opposed to its unpure state. So yeah, I don't think he's using that right. The crucible by the way is a metal pot that they, you know, melt stuff at very high temperatures in. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Should refine his praise. Interesting. Okay. I don't I'm gonna pick a couple of other leads, and then we're gonna move on here. The test the test of lack of affirmation.

David overlooked by his father. This is obscure. One Samuel 16. Come on, Jesse. When Samuel came to anoint a king, Jesse didn't even consider David, yet God saw what man overlooked. Okay. Listen to me. I okay. You gotta be cautious here. It

did not make sense to consider David, like from a worldly perspective. I get that God upends the things all the time. We've seen him do this behavior, but we see it as God upending because everybody else behaves the opposite way. Everyone takes the first born, everyone uses the tallest, everyone takes the guy who looks strong, not the guy who plays the lute to the sheep, right? So like, it's the interesting part, the thing to focus on is God's ability to see within man what men often miss, not like the lack of affirmation by his father. David would not have expected that neither would the second born, like none of these other dudes would have been like, oh, I hope my daddy chooses me. Like he would, you wouldn't, you just choose the first guy who came out to womb, who's taller than everybody. And like, that's who you would have chosen. Like, I don't know, Jesse gets a bad rap in this one, and I'm not sure it's a lack of affirmation because he wouldn't have expected it. At the end it says, many experience this test when their calling isn't recognized by others.

Will you still serve faithfully in obscurity, trusting that god sees and promotes in due time? Does he, though? Does he? What the heck are we with? I mean, is that, like, half of our bands that have been through here that thought they'd be stars? Yeah. And they're like I'm obscure. Yeah, no one appreciates my passion or my art or the thing that I'm doing for like I mean for heaven's sakes the whole biblical record has nothing to do with people affirming you. Like zero. Yeah. Yeah, that's not our story, it's his. You get to skip all the minor prophets, these people are largely ignored and frankly disliked. Yeah. And like, it's not like Jeremiah

is sitting around going, I can't believe people don't like me. He knows why people don't like him, Right? He's saying hard things to hear. Yeah. It's, you know, it is kind of interesting to think about some of the cultural barriers we have of like, we're just, we, people are often desperate just to be like, in some ways recognized as a human being.

But that story has no real like comparisons in the scriptures. Like you just don't think of anybody in any of these times, regardless of what trouble they're going, going like, I just want God to see me. And like, I know what it's getting at and it's a right acknowledgement of the value of people, but like, I don't know that, like, I think it's a relatively unique in our time to have that particular part come into question or have it expected that there are the rest of the reality has to affirm you in some way or another, not just who you, not just like what you believe, but like as a person. And like, so it's difficult because like, I don't, I just don't think we're having these same types of conversations 50 ago or a hundred years ago. Like the barriers of people like recognizing Jesus are first asking Jesus, can you at least convince me that you recognize me?

As opposed to just going, do you honor the God of the Bible or not? Paul's like, you're crazy. You're being silly to act like he doesn't exist. And we're approaching him as if the initial question is like, but God, can you still, can you first convince me that I'm important to you? And like, it's not that you're not, it's just like a different barrier, like you're having to come at it in a different way that puts into vagary for people something that I don't know historically that people were actually struggling with. It's curious. It's a curious situation. Test of God's silence. Jesus said the world would know we are his disciples by our love, not by our preaching or miracles.

Loving unlovable people, forgiving enemies and serving without reciprocity is a divine test. These tests, we're walking, what's the difference between a divine test and just doing like faithfulness, just doing what God told you? Like this, it's a weird way to put it actually, because if you could just think about it, if you said, hey kids, kid over there, I want you to go do the laundry and they go do the laundry and come back and go, dad, I passed the test. It wasn't a test, I just need you to do the laundry.

Is this scripturally accurate? What did He say? Jesus said, The world would know we are His disciples by our love, not by our preaching or miracles. No. That's an unnecessary exclusion. I don't know why our love is not contained in the actual actions we're taking like preaching or performing miracles. I find most of people's information about God and how they come to know him is done through preaching, either corporately or individually. Yeah. Also, I pray for miracles all the time so people will know that God does a thing. Yeah. And it's like so if it's scripturally no good, I'm doing completely the wrong things. No, and like Jesus would affirm that and so would the early church, like acts is full of that, that like, hey, this is a way in which we, I don't know why you would pull any action of which the scriptures point to as the church should be up to and then call that not love. Yeah, that's weird. Okay, let's do one more. Number 12 is the test of physiological pain. Second Corinthians 12,

Paul endured a thorn in the flesh. While we can debate the nature of this affliction, what's clear is that it was a test of weakness. God's power was made perfect not in Paul's strength but in his frailty. This test asks, can you glorify God in your body even when it is broken? Will you declare his faithfulness even though through excruciating physical hardships? Second Corinthians illustrates the nature of the thorn in the flesh was a demonic being that followed Paul and riled up persecution and outside interference like shipwrecks. Hey, man. Are we supposed to believe that that shipwreck was caused by the thorn in the flesh? I never got that. Me neither. I guess I I didn't ever have it. I didn't consider it was a demonic being. Yeah. I guess. I thought I I guess I don't know what I think it is, I feel like his appendix hurts all the time or something, I don't know. Some people think it's his eyesight, the way you sign, see, right inside of my name is Big Prince, some people think it's an ailment, yeah.

I've heard the demon thing but I've never heard anybody say they really believed it. Yeah, I mean there's something very good, I don't think it's, I wouldn't think of it so much as a test as like, well maybe it is, in the way that you have to recognize, I don't know if you guys have ever had a situation where like sometimes I've had trouble, I can't see very well. And so I just like, I've gotten into some, into places where like, I feel like I can't be helpful here because I can't see what's going on as clearly as I wanted to, I can't see what's going on on a board or something. And then I just feel like inept, like there's not a place for me to help here because I'm mixed because I can't do this one thing. And so I don't have anything to offer. And so I think there is very much a risk in finding the places where we have deficiencies or like, we're not what we wanted to be

and then not relying on that we actually can even be like more powerful in that situation with because God will help us overcome the weakness in other ways or something like, I do actually think we need reminded of that, lest you approach any given situation with a God, I know what the right skills and attitude are for this situation and I do not possess all of them and so I probably can't do this thing or that thing. I think though, it's the word test, I guess I'm getting caught up on here. Because like in our modern construct, when we hear test, we go, your abilities

were measured and they either pass or they don't. And then that's the end. If you go in and take an English test, maybe not modern day, they'd probably let you take it three times until you got a better grade because your mom and dad came in there and yelled at everybody. But in general, you walk in, you take the English test and you do good or you don't do good, and then that's it. It's not like the teacher goes, now what could we learn from this? They're like, you got a D because that's what you earned. And then that's it. And like, that does not seem to be God's character in testing. Like he generally does more refining and more revealing and more like, hey, I want it. It's not like God's like surprised on where you're at. He's trying to help you maybe you see where you're at, or more importantly see where he's at. And so I think the word test is, I don't know whether it translates funny, or we just use it different in modern day than they would have thought about it, but everything that He keeps listing as a test, if God says, I will allow this, so it will produce this. That is not what a test is. A test is a final determination on how well you did. And then that's it, conversation Yeah.

Okay, well we'll let that go. We read something by this guy before because I recognize his name. The name of his situation is the Matera. His name is Joseph Matera. Matera Ministries International. I just don't like things are named after people. I don't care for that. But like you don't like when their names in there? Yeah. I just did like. I feel like our whole, like, I feel like Christianity would have a lot more validity if we just started doing everything in the cut. You know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta stop putting your name on crap and you gotta stop telling everybody what you're doing all the time. And you gotta stop trying to raise money from a bunch of people you don't know. Right? Like, I just feel like God provides. And like people will say, well, God provides because I have a great advertising budget. Maybe,

but like you should do the test of lack and then see if God continues to provide. Because like otherwise money solves problems. And so like on problems that you would have, once again, like the cart carrying the ark felt like it was solving a problem because it's heavy and you have to carry it from one dude's barn all the way to Jerusalem, and it sounds like it's gonna suck. And you know what's easier? A cart. So God's like, you know what, I told you not to use the cart and there's reasons for it. And so you can make it look like you're solving a problem with money that you should have let God handle. So when he's like, I will call people to your ministry, don't put up flyers. I mean, give it a shot, you know I'm saying? Don't put up flyers or whatever, I don't know if that's specific to your place, you can put up flyers if you want, but you know what I'm saying? We can solve problems with money people a hundred years ago had to rely on God to solve. Yeah. And especially with the internet, most advertising is cheap and free. And so you're like, well what does it hurt? I'm not spending any money on it, not spending any time on it. And they're like, God can work through internet invites and Facebook events. Like all those things are true, but something tells me that you're not banking on it. You're

banking on the reach of your current social media platform. Yeah, I think that's the tricky thing to get to, which is like, God can work through anything. And so how would you even know where to refine or call ourselves to refinement or faithfulness? Because like, God could have called this guy to name this thing after his own face. I just don't like it. Or maybe it's a real problem because it literally hints to some sort of a level of arrogance that should be unnecessary and personal celebrity that should stop. And like, maybe I think that's the tricky wick about a lot of this stuff is that like, I mean, God could be using all kinds of things. And so is it even incumbent upon humans to sharpen each other's iron or go, look, it's God's refined because he can do what he wants to do through whoever he wants to do. I mean, is it is it wrong to assume he is using all things? Like, people find the worst situations and go, God's doing something here. You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe he's not. Maybe it's just broken and terrible because people are being broken and terrible.

It's just a natural outpouring of broken and terribleness. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's the like there's some super spirit discernment in there because like all kinds of people might say, I know this

fit the normal pattern, but like, who am I to say that one guy can't lead a church with 20,000 people isn't can't God do something with that? Sure. Can't God do something with one guy who decides he's gonna meet only in caves and wear linen and that's it with six other people? Sure, he could, which, but like how, in what way desire sharpened ironed and does it not apply to some discernment around some of these things to go, yes, God can use those things. It does not mean that he is. And then how would you otherwise, in what sense could you ever cause a refinement for someone? Because like, couldn't I just respond that to anybody anywhere saying, God can use it of course, why would I stop doing it? Yeah, that is a platitude that I frankly, I don't like. Like I hear it said all the time by well meaning people, but like when a bad thing happens, they're like, don't worry, God's in the middle of this. Like, don't know. I don't know if that makes anybody feel any better. Like, maybe it's long term, but like, you also don't know that. Like sometimes things like a bad thing happens and God once again did allow it. And so you do have to do business with God on the fact that He allowed a thing to happen. But whether it was His movement that caused it, like a hardening of Pharaoh's heart, or it's a consequence of sin or anything else, even just bad weather that day,

who knows? And so I think sometimes we want meaning because we want control, and so we feel like as long as we understand what happened, or that God will eventually do anything, something about it or will take a bad thing and turn it into a good, then we're like, good, at least I have a thing that I can rest in. And that's something that we want, right? But like, it feels like the best you can honestly offer is you need to ask God if he can change this into something great. Yeah, we have to get acclimated to the concept that God's will is not always done. And I know that because Jesus tells us to pray for it, not just look around and watch it happen. And James is kind of clear that like God's intent is that everybody comes to Him and everybody does not. It's His will that it would happen, but it's not always happening. And it doesn't mean God's the responsibility thing actually all still lands on God. But like in the freedom that God has given to humanity, they simply do not have to do the thing that he wills. And so then as we look around, is it like you cannot look at all the situations and go, yes, is God is in the middle or that it is his will. You really do not know that. And so I'd be real cautious about prescribing that that's the case. You don't know that that's true. He's still, I mean, he's still good and he is maybe with you in the circumstances.

Maybe that's what they mean. And that's probably likely what someone means when say God's in the middle of it. But like, I just, I'm a little cautious on the, it's God's will that this happened. I don't know. There's all kinds of things that God like the most of the, most of the New Testament is full of some sort of refining or chastisement to the people, which means that they're not all acting and behaving within the will that God has actually prescribed in the example of Jesus. And so refinement is necessary. His will is not always being done. That's what we're praying for. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when a family member is like, hey, I'm gonna have to move in with you for like six months. I'm like, this is not my will, but it is within my sovereignty and I'm gonna allow it. You know I'm saying? And there's a ton of things that are like that. They're like, this is not what I would want to have happen. It's not what I would prefer if I designed it to go this way, but like, yes, I'm gonna allow this. And so like, there's ton of things like to not encroach on part of our free will, like over the way that he created us to operate in his world. And like some things like just have to be, sometimes his will is not for you to suffer and be in pain, but sometimes he will allow it so you can see life correctly,

and then use it for your refinement. So like, not to take like all the hope out of it, because I think it's like the Bible's littered with hope, and with God walking through things with you, right? Even the things that are causing you to weep or be angry, like sometimes God be weeping too, He's like, I feel your heart on this and it really sucks, like I did allow it and it's not what I wanted, and I will lament with you that this was tough, but like we're not gonna stay here, we're gonna move out and we're gonna move on, but like overall, to try to pin God down and say I want both free will, and I don't want you to be ever taught any lessons, so don't let every consequences ever fall on me, and God's like, the best thing that can happen to you right now is a consequence fall on you, you know? Okay. Yeah. Very good. Hey, maybe maybe the show is boring to you and you want us to be aware of that. That's totally fine. Or you've got complaints about the things that we've said. You can get up the old Bob Eisenhower Life from the Path of Complaint line (515) 517-0085. Call or text (515) 517-0085. We would love to to hear your feedback on the show, get your thoughts on the things we're talking about, or maybe you got some questions. You need some advice and wanna hit us up,

we'd be glad to do that. Mike, let's give out some advice. Alright. Dear, live from the PATH. After their twenty fifth anniversary dinner, my nephew, Will, was blindsided when his wife announced that she had never loved him and has been in love with her stepbrother since her teens. What? Her stepbrother? Yeah. Oh. Will had supported her completely and gladly. She wanted to be a stay at home mom, and he makes good money. This hurt him terribly. Will has met another woman on Facebook dating, and they've been seeing each other for a few months. She's a certified nursing assistant and is now wearing a huge diamond ring from Will. She constantly posts statements on Facebook about what she wants. Cruises are her main desire. Yesterday, she posted that she's looking forward to three of them. I don't know what CNAs make, but she has several adult children with with a kid she spends a lot of time with and post pictures of outings. This is good, but I'm afraid she has targeted Will as he was hurting and from being blindsided.

Is there a tactful way to caution him to be careful so he doesn't get used again? Oh. The used seems to like two very different circumstances. He was married for twenty five years? Twenty five years. That's a long time. Yeah it is. And then to turn around and get on Facebook dating, I didn't even know Facebook had a dating. I didn't either. I knew it did, but I didn't know it still did. Damn, stay off of that. Well I've never been on it, somebody I knew was doing it and they didn't like it, so I guess I assumed, yeah. Okay, so I don't, if I ignore a lot of the background, because I'm actually not sure. This is his aunt by the way, writing. Okay, so she's older. Yeah.

I I think I think there's no reason at all that you can if you've if you're the right person in his life for for you to go, hey, man, like you just came out of a long relationship, some caution and some slow the roll might be value. Like you could even say, look, it's agnostic to CNA lady. Like, don't care who it is. You gotta be real cautious that you got a full set of eyes when you're moving on to this next thing, the season of life.

And I mean, I wouldn't so worry about the money. It'll get sorted out one way or the other. I but he needs he needs to make sure he's got his eyes wide open and dudes especially tend to move on fast. Yeah. Yeah. Once dudes have been married, they can't not be married. They just be like that. Like, they've been married for forty five years. Their wife passes away. They're like, I'm I'll never do it again. She's the love of my life. And here eight months later, they're like, I found this gal. Yeah. I'm like, come on, Henry. Yeah. It sounds like he could be spending money despite his former relationship, like see what you're missing, guys will kind of do that, that's not healthy. Also, Auntie is getting all of her information from Facebook posts, which are curated. Yeah. Wait. Wait. Didn't didn't this lady say at dinner that she was she loves her stepbrother?

At the twenty fifth anniversary dinner. Which is irrelevant to the rest of the post. Yeah. Had nothing to do with anything. By the way. Except for the backstory of Will being a vulnerable dude. Yeah. I don't know. Like like the question is, is there a tactful? I think you could probably throw tactful out the window. Right? Like he's been married for twenty five years. Let's put him at least in his mid forties, if not 50. Yeah. Right? Like, I mean, tact is for young people and politicians. You know what I'm saying? By the time you get to be a 40, 50, just spit it out. Hey, man. It really looks from my vantage point that

you're jumping in real fast. To a relationship. And, like, maybe she's using for your money. Maybe she's not. But, like, all the weight responsibility of both the financial burden and the emotional burden after being completely sideswiped by twenty five years of marriage, can you take a breather? Just take a take a breather, dude. Like, take a time out and a breath, and let's date for a minute if that's what you wanna do, but let's calm it down. Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's fine. Alright. Secular is gonna say, I may sound like a broken record, but there's a reason why folks are advised to, quotes, wait a year before making important decisions after a death. In your nephew's case, the death of his marriage would qualify. Giving a woman he has known only a short time the Rock Of Gibraltar for her ring finger seems a bit premature. Oh, I forgot about the ring. Yeah. It would not be wrong to mention to your nephew that before he makes any lifelong promises to anyone, it's important to have premarital counseling as well as discuss drawing up a prenuptial agreement with his attorney. The counsel he is using for his divorce could qualify. Oh, yeah. Thanks for that deficiency setup. Okay.

Okay. Here we go. Question two. Dear life from the path. I've been married for more than twenty years. Alright. We got some old time we got some long timers in it today. Yeah. You read it correctly. Oh. No. This afternoon, my husband came home and told me our neighbors had invited him out to dinner to thank him for helping them with their yard work yesterday. Usually, I'm at work in the afternoon, but today was my day off. When I asked him if I was included, he said, no, just me. I felt bad, but didn't show it. You didn't do any yard work? My husband came home a few hours later and began talking to our son about their evening as if I wasn't there. When I asked why he didn't tell them I was home and would have come along, his response was, I knew you would somehow make it my fault that you didn't come. I told him it didn't look right that he was tagging along while his wife was left behind. Am I overreacting?

I don't I can't imagine doing this. Yeah. So I don't think you're overreacting. I think your marriage sucks. Yeah. And they're they're neighbors. Right? Yeah. And they all know he's married. Yeah. Yeah. Now, that is the difficult part. Well, it's not really, you just go like if you knew, if they know you're married and they ask you and it feels like they're intentionally just like

leaving your wife out, then I would just say, no, I'm not coming. Yeah. No, thank you. I mean, if I invite, hey, Ben, I'd like to have a come over for supper. I'm assuming your family's coming. Yeah, of course. Maybe he just cut her off. Maybe the husband did that by not asking, Hey, can Carol come? Don't know, man, that's interesting. Yeah. I'm okay. I'm I've screwed this up once. I'm a, well, it's not the exact same scenario but a guy text me. He's like, hey, man, I got a couple extra. I got a couple tickets to

go to like blah blah blah something or other. And I'm like, cool. Yeah, we'll definitely take em. You know, assuming he meant I have a ticket for you and your wife. Yeah. What he meant was you can come with me. Oh. So just me and this other dude going to the thing. And I'm like, oh, awkward. Yeah. Because I certainly accepted these two tickets. But when it's like, hey, you should come with me as like a dude's not out. I'm like, yeah, no, I won't be going to that. That's not something I'm interested in, because like me and my wife are, we go places together, that's how we live our life. And so it is one, something tells me there's a pattern of living and the way that your marriage is working, the way that he interacts with the neighbors versus the way that your relationship is with the neighbors, that this is not completely out of left field. I feel like something has played into the part of this, either you're never home to like be part of this thing or like you got a sour, you know, relationship with the neighbors or whatever. And he's just a dude out there and he likes to run the weed whacker and he's just out doing all kinds of great stuff for people. They're like, why don't you come over for a quick dinner? And they probably thought nothing of it. He's like, yeah, it'll be fine. We've been married for twenty years. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is a one through five year marriage problem. Yeah. After twenty years, like my wife cares, but like, this isn't unheard of. Hey, I'm gonna go eat over at this place, whatever. What do you guys have? I

mean, I think I would always still prefer to go places with my wife, but I don't know that she would be like instantly offended, especially if like I had a conversation that I was looking to have with somebody over there, like I would go by myself, you know? Mhmm. Don't know. The whole thing seems a little bit weird, but it also feels like we might be ignoring whatever path got us here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's something yeah. There's a there's probably a lot of detail around this that otherwise would contextualize the situation differently. Although, mean, I don't, you're right. I don't think it ends up in much different actually. I think you continue to go look, I just presume you're gonna tell that you met my wife and if it's clear that you didn't, then thank you, but we'll stay home. And I'd like, I think that's how you handle it. I think probably the worst possible option is what you did, is to go out

and tell your wife, well, you weren't invited. Just go do this thing. It's awkward. And then go talk about it with your grown son and not talk to your wife about it. I mean you don't want talk about it with your wife, she's gonna be mad. And we don't know who these neighbors are, is it like a young lesbian couple, is it an old married couple, husband and wife? Who lives over there? That might affect how things go down. Yeah. I hadn't considered a couple of lesbians to get.

America. Okay. Here's what Segula says. Okay. Your neighbors were wrong to invite your husband out and exclude you. But what happened after that makes me wonder if something more is wrong in your relationship with your husband. I knew you would make it my fault and whatnot. If this is a symptom of a larger problem, you and your husband should discuss it with the help of a marriage and family therapist. Your doctor or health insurance company can refer you. What? Alright. I mean, don't disagree. It sounds like you might need some. Marriage counseling for sure. Something going on there. You wanna do one more? Yeah, one more. Okay. I'm not even gonna read it. We're just gonna fire it right out. Here it is.

Husband and I dear life from the past. My husband and I have been amicably married for sixteen years. What? Amicably married. That's not a good Sounds great. That is not a good word. Okay. We enjoy each other's company and are home together a lot. However, over the last year or so, I have had an increasingly hard time hearing what he's saying. What? He sits in his chair and mumbles to the point where I can't tell if he's talking to me or to himself. He also tries to talk to me from the next room with his back to me or when I have the sink running. These are regular married problems. No matter how many times or different ways I ask him to speak up, he doesn't do it. He says he doesn't like shouting at me and that other people can hear him. I had my hearing checked by an audiologist and it's fine. No change from when I was younger, but he still won't speak up. I'm so annoyed most of the time that I ignore him unless we're in the same room and facing each other. Then he gets grumpy with me for not responding or not knowing the things he said he told me. How can I get him to understand that it doesn't matter how loud he thinks he should talk if I can't hear him? Maybe it's time to start texting. Yeah, have you never met an older married couple? This plays out the same way at everybody's house. Like what you tolerated and what you were generous with the first tens of your ten years of your marriage. By year twelve as I walk out of a room and my wife starts to talk to me I go what? Instead of year one through ten I'd have turned around and said, I missed that. What'd you say, love? You know? And but this time I'm like, I can only half hear you. I'm gonna keep walking. You'll bring it back up later.

You know I'm saying? Like, this is just regular. You get used to living with somebody and then you start to create stories in your head like, they're doing this on purpose. They're talking soft and I can't hear them and it's irritating me, you know what I'm saying? And they're not doing it on purpose. You've just been with them a long time. Yeah, you know what drives that is I think there's a switch that happens where you start going, they are intentionally neglecting me and what I care about. Like you see, because you start your marriage off and like, if you're doing it right, there's a service to it. You're like, oh, I'm so lucky to be with this person. And you think about them all the time and you give them the benefit of the doubt. And then at some point it turns to something that feels like, why are they not considering me? I've told them for ten years now that I can't hear them and yet here they come in and they refuse to say something louder because there becomes like an inevitability

to like, is this what I signed up for? Fifty years of someone like after I've repeatedly told them I can't hear them very well, refusing to do anything about it, right? So you go from a gracious handling of it to like, hey, they had plenty of opportunity to change and they're not going to, and then that realization starts to sit in and start to get real pissed about it. I'm not saying that's right, but like, that's what happens. That's classic. Yeah. Okay. So the question is, how can I get him to understand that it doesn't matter how loud he thinks he should talk if I can't hear him? Yeah. So like, this goes goes to the the common life from the path advice, which says people can't steal from you what you're willing to give them. And you cannot you cannot be offended by an action that you are willing to simply overlook.

And so if someone is not talking loud enough, then you get up and get closer to them. So it's like, because realistically, like let's say this is intentional, this actually still solves your problem and they're gonna notice it. Let's say it's unintentional. It also still solves your problem and they may or may not notice it, but your problem got solved. So just like, just get up. Yeah. I like this is true as marriages get older, right? Like it's still what you found was an easy surrender. You just, you kind of finding it harder to surrender to. You know what I'm saying? Like, before you would go, I'm not understanding that I'm I'm just gonna go turn around and then stand right next to him and go, I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you and instead like you're like we've been doing this forever, whatever you're gonna say is not drop dead important anyhow,

like we've had every conversation that needs to be had, I'll come back and catch it in a minute after I turn the grill off, you know what I'm saying, like just things just start to creep in there and like some of the niceties that were there in the first whatever years, you just been in a relationship with people for a while. I'm not excusing any of this behavior, but it is regular, right? It's a natural output of being super close to somebody and sharing all the things and after a while, it's why I don't barely ever tell my wife, thank you. Like she hands me something, I just take it. I don't generally go, thanks love, super nice. Know what I'm saying? If a guest were to come over hand me a cup, I would go, thank you. You know what I'm saying? Because we're not as familiar, but when you start, when the two actually become one flesh, turns out you start talking to her like you talk to yourself, and sometimes little quick, and it lacks patience, know? So basically what I'm saying is, I think this is just regular marriage stuff. Try not to blow this up into some kind of huge dramatic bomb that starts a chasm between you, but like there does get to be like familiarity breeds like a closeness that also starts getting rid of politeness.

Okay, oh no, where did it go? Nope, I'll find it, give me a second. Well, and as you age your ears and hearing gets worse as well, so it could be they really honestly can't hear each other and they both think the other one's going deaf. I mean as a guy who's been married forty years I think I can attest to that. We're always like what, what'd you say, what? And one of them will probably not admit it, they're not willing to think that they might be going deaf, it's definitely the other one. It's definitely the other one, I think we both have done that in our marriage. Zegler says, you have told your husband that unless he gets out of his easy chair and talks directly to you that you can't understand what he's saying. Perhaps if he tried what you are suggesting, it would be less frustrating for him. That he would refuse to cooperate without trying is really inconsiderate.

Could he be losing it, or is he having trouble hearing when you talk to him? Whatever the cause of your communication problem, you may need your hearing rechecked. If you are told again that it's fine, consult a mediator to get the message across to him. Yeah, I mean, so one of the things to think about is this does go away by even one party being sacrificial party. And like that, I think that again, that's what does it, the longer you're married, the more you just like both of you start to give up a little on like accommodating quirky or weird or whatever behavior is going on in the marriage. And so like, it does actually kind of rub you to go, look, mentioned that I can't hear you when you stand at the stairs and here we are at time 175

where you're standing over there whispering and you're like, why wouldn't you just change it? And the reality was is like, you would take the advice from earlier, which is like, you can't hear them, so just walk over there. Or this person could go, you know, this person, like my husband's mentioned this a bunch of times. I think maybe I should just talk a little bit louder, even though it feels unnecessary, but like you start the rendering and the reason people get stubborn and start fighting with stuff is because they're back to looking at themselves like, why should I have to change? They're the ones who are being this way. Yeah, they're talking softly. Yes. But you're also being this way. You're also not not being considered. Right. It's and that's the thing. It's the same thing with arguments, and it's the same thing with this kind of situation, which is like, don't even both have to be doing well. Just one of you has gotta get it right at any given time, and you should figure out when to trade off. Just like, hey, I'm on a tear today. I'm not gonna be the guy that's gonna get it right today. You're gonna have to get it right, which is fine. But like when both people aren't getting it right, no one's trying to like, look out for the other one better than they're looking out for themselves. That's where you're gonna have the problem. Alright. Okay. Hey. You've been listening to live from the path. We appreciate you hanging out with us. And like I said, look forward to any feedback, complaints, or harassment you may have about the show. Hook us up on the on the life and the path. Bye bye is our complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Call or text. We would love to hear from you. We're we gotta ramble the shows here. I don't know. Maybe we're even meeting next week. We'll see how the time continues to turn. But in the meantime, be faithful in the means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to Live From The Path.