Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Pathway. Hey. You'll listen to Life on the path, listen here. Listen. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. We have done upwards of 560 shows, and still, you can't keep your flabbering giraffe neck. I was me and Bill were talking about a couple things. No. No. No. That's not the situation. Mike was talking to the room. No one was responding to him or talking to him about anything because we were trying to start the show. And he's just sitting there leaning back just talking to himself.

It's like, hey, man. Ben is actively starting the show we're about to do. Listen to me. I I can just I can see it in my mind. I'm sitting here. I'm like, if you look over there, Mike will be going stupid. Forty years old. Here's the thing. I'm gonna tell you two two stories. One quick story. Okay. So I listened to the show from last week. Yeah. And like, for the first, like, twenty five minutes of the show, Buva's microphone wasn't on. And I'm like, the lord loves me. But here's the thing. Buva's voice carries to every other microphone. Gonna say that's not a So you could hear very clearly what he was saying. And then Ben figured it out half hour in. I'm like, the Lord still loves me. But this isn't as good. I'm I'm glad I'm glad that the bellwether for whether or not the Lord loves you is me being muted but then somehow still being hurt. Why can't you be obedient to what the Lord wants to bring me? It's a it's a booba must decrease. Listen. John, have have I I pray constantly that the lord shuts me up if he wants to. Yeah. So far he has not. Oh, good. Oh, We're praying for the same thing. Probably. If you love me, pray for the lord to shut my mouth because that is a good thing. Alright. You're listening to live from the path. It's still time to bail. You're two and a half minutes in, and I'm just the show this is how the show goes. Jared,

I think, will rescue parts of the program. Yeah. But we will ruin it probably in spite of it. Okay. It's not too late to mute Mike's microphone right now. Yeah. You hey. You you know what you can do? You can also zoom in on your Internet browser, like, to, like, 400% only to Jared Hey. In case you're here for him. It's a great idea. Yeah. This is gonna be alright. We have one camera that enables that? Would it be a little blurry? Or No. Are you blurry when magnified, Jared? Maybe. Maybe. I'm gonna qualify. What a fantastic first interview question. Welcome to the show. Are you blurry when magnified? Bigfoot is blurry when magnified. Every picture I've ever seen of him is blurry. Indeed. Okay. Alright. You're listening live from the path. Here's what got going on the program tonight. First, we're gonna talk to Jared Horace.

Jared is from Sheep Gate. We know Jared. Mike and I actually, I think everybody's had folks that they know or care about shepherded or whatever go through Sheep Gate, and it's a it's a great organization. And so, yeah, we just I'm so excited to hear from him and just to tell us more about it, tell more about his background and story. And then kind of one of the questions this has come up I bet this comes up once once every four or five months. Like, just with the interactions that the room has with people who have Jesus and forgot about it, need Jesus, and they need all kinds of things, making some rough decisions or whatever. I think it's difficult to go, like, I wanna help. Am I helping?

Yeah. Right. Things that we're doing. And and I think maybe maybe part of the answer is it doesn't get any easier. In fact, the more that you care about people, like, you're always gonna be in a gray situation somewhere. Yeah. But, anyway, I think that'd be something interesting that maybe we wanna talk with Jared about too, so I'm excited for that. Also, boov's got an ask the pastor. What what are we talking about? We're gonna talk about in Genesis 32 when Jacob wrestles with the Lord. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I don't know if I there's no new revelation that I found or anything like that, but I wonder if I've read it differently Yeah. Recently. And I'm just interested about specifically Peniel in the in the the

story of of who he's wrestling with and, like, how to take that in. Like, there's a dude named Peniel, and I'm just trying to figure out how to take this in or if I'm reading it incorrectly, if there's something within the Hebrew that I might just be missing Yeah. In in the storytelling. And so, yeah, just wanna wanna ask you fellows what you're thinking about that piece because I think it helps me understand a little bit about personifications of the Lord in the Old Testament Yeah. And where he shows up and and what I should be expecting for that. L means God, penny or penny is really what it is, means prep the elbow. God God preps the elbow. Yeah. God preps the elbow. Macho Macho Man Randy Savage style.

I'll double check the Hebrew on that. Right? Yeah. I'm I'm almost a 100% certain that's wrong. Preps the elbow. Because very very specifically in the story, he grabs his thigh. Yeah. He was I mean, if you would have said, yeah, the lord preps the thigh, I probably would have been more likely to go, hey, that's that's Is the it the thigh like rest of the old testament thigh? I don't think so. Okay. Of the Put the thigh hand on the thigh? Most of the thigh in the old testament is the genitals. It's not the thigh. No. No. Yeah. Exactly. No. There's like a ligament in the back of the knee that it's being Let's hope so. Alright, Kate. We're gonna head up with that. Mike, did you have a did you wanna talk about

I don't know. It's a here's the thing. Sometimes I like to think above my station like I have a philosophical thing to talk about, and then I spew it out, and I'm like, man, I'm so dumb. That's not even a good question. Every time you do, I say to myself, the lord loves me. Here's the thing. The lord loves me when Mike says a thing, hey. I was thinking about the concepts of eschatology. And I really was like, do I truly understand Daniel seven? No. I'm just like, no. You don't. I'm very confused. Being the dumbest guy in the room. And so, like, literally twenty minutes I'm driving here, I'm thinking, I don't understand God's emotions right. You know I'm saying? Like, when people say, like, and heaven's rejoiced, I see, like, angels high fiving and people and then I just see God over there going, yeah. I knew that was gonna happen. I'm like, he he does emotions perfectly, but I can't I can't I always see emotions in more of a weak this is terrible. Like, as a as a like a weaker response. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And there's something in my head that goes Surprise. I had yeah. No idea. Wow. Goodness. Right? And so, like, they're like, the heavens rejoiced. Like, all the all the angels who were as smart as me are like, yeah. So great. And God's like, oh, yeah. I knew this was gonna happen. I appreciate I appreciate your thoughts of God or as he's just looking around at the heavens rejoicing and be like, you guys knew this was happening. I know. Why are you rejoicing? I was I was asking was act this is stupid. I was praying about it. I'm like, god, I don't understand you very well. Right? Because he has emotions that are perfect. I don't think that's stupid at all, Mike. All of my emotions are flawed, and I'm like, how can I not under how do I understand perfect emotions? Think I think you praying, god, I don't understand this is what I said. Prayer. He said he didn't talk to me about it. He's I mean, he's probably He goes he's gonna go to that show, and he's gonna ask some questions about this, and we're all gonna be able to get him straight. He's like, when we do the rapture, I'm taking my first. I can't take him down there. Anyway, with the show, Ben. It turns out I don't have a question.

And there's no rapture. Alright. Let's let's we also have some advice on dear life from the path. Yeah. I didn't look it up ahead of time, though. Okay. Well, we'll see what happens. It could be a dicey affair. Alright. A thousand. Alright, Jared. We did it. Well, like I told you, we we gotta we ruined it. No. It's good. It's good. We said the genitals. I said I wouldn't do it. Now I've said it already. Okay. Jared, just maybe let's start a little bit so people can get oriented around what is Sheep Gate. And then I think I wanna talk a little more about kinda how you got there and and kinda what it means to you but just maybe help people acclimate to what is Sheep Gate. Okay. Sheep Gate is a division of adult and teen challenge of The Midlands. There's there's these teen challenges almost in every state in The United States and also in different countries. I mean, what it is is it's a long term twelve month usually

men and women discipleship program to help guys, women women get freedom from life controlling issues, usually

addictions. Yeah. Yeah. But there's, you know, there's a rarity of of other things that come into play. Yep. I mean, we we believe that ultimately Jesus is the answer. It gets it's a little more complex than that but Yeah. But at the end of the day, Jesus can provide that permanent life change and freedom from those things. Mhmm. I I do I I think it's super interesting

because there is a consistency in that in a lot of in a lot of Jesus oriented programs because I think people get the impression like I'm struggling with alcoholism or drugs or pornography or whatever the thing is just running you over, that, like, you gotta go the first thing you do is some sort of, like, specialism Mhmm. Around that particular thing. And I think I think you kinda alluded to this maybe when you're like, it's it's it's more complicated or it's complex in the ways in which people, you know, people think and the things that they do. But at its core, the foundation of what any freedom looks like has to happen through Jesus. Is that the right way to think about it? Correct. And those things you said, whether pornography or substance abuse, we look at those as symptoms Yeah. Mhmm. Of those of that or those

more deeper complex Yep. Jesus size holes. Right? Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. How do people do or do people recommended to hear? Do they have to like like how do people get us into the program? So it's interesting. Usually, it's recommended by families. Right? There's somebody praying for them. There's somebody thinking about them and family will usually provide that push.

We're not a government funded facility, so the substance abuse world doesn't typically recommend us. Yeah. Right? They want you to go to those twenty eight day programs that cost a thousand dollars a day Yep. And go to your classes and yada yada yada. So we usually won't get those recommendations unless we know someone, but we are getting more

court court acknowledgment to where those the legal system is sending people our We're definitely open to us coming in and speaking at a court date Yeah. And it possibly being an option for them. So Nice. Okay. What do what do you think is the challenge is the challenge there I mean, suppose it may be part of it because it's it's faith based, but like, is there if you're coming from the the visual that there's a specialty to say alcohol treatment, do you feel like it takes a while for people to acclimate that that to think about this as being effective

because it's not specialized like that? Once they're already there or prior to coming? Prior to coming. Yeah. And are you talking about the person that's coming or people? Yeah. People yeah. People outside like are they are people hesitant or do you get the impression that they're hesitant that like because it doesn't feel like a specialty I think that could be the initial thought. Yeah. But I think that with addiction and life controlling issues,

family and those individuals just come to their wits ends and they're like, we'll try we'll try anything. Yeah. Right? So oftentimes, we'll be the last stop on the house is how I that's what it was for me. Yeah. If it didn't work, I was gonna die a drug addict and and be okay with it. So so that that's a great segue. So maybe tell me a little bit about, at your discretion how much you wanna share but like how did you get end up at Sheep Gate and, you know, whatever story is before that part that makes sense. Yeah. I hear my wife, Jared, you're talking too much. She's probably watching. Hey, don't do it Jared. This is the space to talk. Is Horace. This is why he's here. Yeah. We actually brought him in for this. So

kinda interesting. I was adopt. My mother had me when she was 13, pregnant 12. I was adopted to a good family, moved to Chicago young, I think five maybe. So grew up in Chicago and early on started having some identity issues.

Sure. And in Chicago, of the for young black guys, know, the gangs are waiting. Right? If you have identity issues, if you wanna feel if you wanna feel like you belong, gangs are rampant in Chicago.

And they prey on guys that are trying to figure themselves out. So I I joined and felt fulfilled and with that comes crime and violence and and drug use and all those things escalated in my life to where my parents kinda were like, you know, Jared's gonna die. Mhmm. And they heard of a program

called New Horizon Youth Ministries and they they were a three part program. Marion, Indiana, Canada, Miss Anabbi Woods Academy in Canada, then The Dominican Republic. Mhmm. And there's actually a documentary out, Kidnapped for Christ on them. They're closed down now for different abuses but Uh-huh. So I went there. I visited all three programs, spent a year in The Dominican Republic and came out

worse than before. Hated God because they they were a faith based program for Yeah. For at risk teens. And they I tell people they under underfed you, overworked you, and didn't let you get sleep. Right? With with additives in between. Sure. So got out mad at the world, met my wife, we got married.

Three weeks after our marriage, our wedding, I got arrested, sentenced to three and a half years in prison. Prison is prison. Right? Yeah. Prison is prison. Prison is prison. So, you know, you can imagine all the things. Right? And then I got Actually, I have a question. How was your on your adopted family, were they followers of of Jesus?

Tremendous. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But it was for them. Yeah. That's right. To me, was for them. Yep. There was nothing ever personal. It was always dragging us to church. Yep. Yeah. You're gonna go to Awana and you're gonna go to you know, it was just stand up and worship. Yeah. If you don't, you're getting spanked out. So it was just It was things. It was, you know, and it was in the nineties. Right? So it's it's just that's what we did. Yeah. And I suppose like the the the situation the situation at the at the camps Ruined it. Yeah. Yeah. Would reinforce It's feeding it. Ruined it for me. Yeah. Like completely ruined it for me. Okay. Okay. So in that, there there was always some sprinkles of substance abuse

and even before the first time I went to prison. And I got out and I went and we had a we adopted a child. Mhmm. We ended up being pregnant. He was born while I was in prison. Came home, made two more daughters, went back to prison for five years. And during that two years that I was out, addiction spiraled,

came home after the five years and addiction isn't the word for what I was doing at that point. I was a monster. Yeah. Wife and kids didn't know if I was gonna come home or not, be dead, didn't know. So What is it in those in that situation because that's a that's after you have been in prison and, like, you can how did it feel, I guess, like, did you have a sense for, like, I know I know what I'm doing is harmful to me, to my family, or is it does it not feel that connected? Not at all. Yeah. And and I I try to explain and it's tough for me. I I don't think about these things every day anymore, like, at all. Yeah. Completely removed. So I'm trying to recall the best I can but something I tell families oftentimes they'll say,

you know, how do they choose drugs over me? How do you go drink instead of be with your kids? And that's not even a thought. Yeah. Right. It's not even a thought. Yep. And if if people it's pain. It's it's like we talked about it's a symptom. Those are symptoms of pain and hurt and trauma and and it doesn't hit us until we've already done it. You start to come down or sober up and then you either wanna do more or you wanna kill yourself. Right. Yeah. So, if you're not killing yourself, you're doing more and that's the cycle of addiction. So you're not feeling those things. Yeah. And it just it's insane

ride. And that's that's kind of why I asked because I I do think that is it's fairly common and it's very difficult to be on the other end of someone making choices that feels like it's personal against you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's it's not I mean, I'm not I'm not maybe it's not true all the way around. But like most of the time, I it's not they're not thinking of you. They're not like thinking, oh, I think this is gonna harm him harm them and I choose me. I think it's important to recognize that, like, it's not it's not that simple.

And so a lot of the the guilt attempt to try to get someone to change their path, although is the feeling the thing that you're realistically feeling is true. It it may not be getting to the thing that you actually think you're you're getting at. You're you're actually probably making them wanna use more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's not to minimize those people's feelings. There is there needs to be a time where that's acknowledged. Course. And and you know, amends are made there and Yep. And and hopefully some restoration.

Yeah. Sure. Of course. But Okay. You're a monster. Yeah. So I at that time, 2000 and I don't know '16,

I was addicted to cocaine and using heroin in the IV fashion. I was drinking uncontrollable uncontrollable amounts of alcohol and

my wife was done. My mom I remember my mom was, you know, got you always think you got your mom. Yeah. She Sure. She told me don't call me until you're ready to go to Teen Challenge. Mhmm. You know, don't don't even don't even try. So I called her. I was busted up and she brought me to the Teen Challenge Chicago first. Mhmm. And I went there and I was there for about eight months and some things started to get pieced together for me, I think. But unfortunately, at that time,

the program was on the verge of shutting down. Yeah. And there were some things that transpired and I ended up leaving early and I don't know, ninety days later, I was back off to the And I called and asked if I could come back. Yeah. And the director there was like, you know, we know you too well and you know us too well.

And he actually completed Sheep Gate in Colfax. So he's like, why don't you go to Sheep Gate in Colfax, Iowa? And I hung up on him. Going to Iowa. Like, that that wasn't what we were I saw the pamphlet. That wasn't what we were talking about. Sure. Yeah. So I don't know. Another three, four months,

alone, addicted. There was us some other situations, and I was just like, you know, like I kinda mentioned last house on the block. I said, you know, I'll try team challenge in Iowa, Sheep Gate, and if it doesn't work, I'll die a drug addict, and I'll die an alone drug addict. My wife, I wasn't living at home. Kids weren't talking to me.

So I called my mom I had been using, and I said, I wanna go to teen challenge Iowa and I had been working on the the application process and it was actually the next day that I was supposed to go. The night I reached out to her and I said, can I sleep on your enclosed porch? Don't let me in your house. Yeah. You know, can I sleep on your enclosed porch? And and that was on purpose because I, you know, I couldn't trust myself then. Sure. So she I got a backpack,

sent her to the pull the car around front and went in her pantry and emptied her gin into my monster screw off bottle. And she drove me to the bus and I rode five, six hours to Des Moines and I was picked up. And that was 2,018. So Okay. And so you got you got to Sheep Gate and that how or in what way was that experience different than the other times?

I mean, at first, it really wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Hated it. I hated it. Yeah. Was, you know, in a town of 1,200 people up on a hill, again, in a facility of men which had been the the story story of of my my life life, on on a a bunk bunk bed bed without without my my family. Family. Yeah. So and I was institutionalized

at that point, so my mind automatically just resorts to to what it's what it's been trained to do. Yep. So I'm kind of a hard, you know, hard shell to crack. But you asked what was different, and I think the the difference maker there was I was broken. Yeah. Nothing had worked. Prison hadn't worked. Juvenile programs, medication, counseling,

countless 28 programs Sure. Countless detoxes. Nothing had worked. And I just kinda was at a point in my life where I think I knew deep down. I I wouldn't have admitted it back then but I knew

if anyone could help me, God could help me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a safe sober environment so that's what was different. It was far away and isolated and Yeah. Sure. So Yeah. Tell me, was there were there any unique relationships that that kind of started there? People that were going through it at the same time or or anything like that? Yeah. So

I think that I didn't trust early on so I would watch the staff members interact with other people. I wouldn't I wouldn't give them that Mhmm. Satisfaction to to get close to me, but I'd watch. Yeah. And I watched as they broke down walls with other students and I watched different Christ like

mannerisms or attention that they would give people in crisis. And I I think I just saw the realness in it. And I remember there was a turning point for me. My wife, you know, she wouldn't really answer the call my calls or if she did, she put the kids on the phone. And there was a night she she was having a get together and she really wouldn't talk to me.

And I think I was there four months and I was always kinda like, you know, when we get on the phone, we gonna be together? She's like, well, I'll tell you what, if you don't finish, we won't be together. Mhmm. Right? So that's what she would tell me. And this one night, I was convinced that I was gonna call her the next day and I was going to say, you know, either we're gonna be together or I'm leaving. And I I vividly remember

praying that night and just, I don't know, kinda arguing with God and and being mad about where I was and where my life turned out. And I won't say it was an audible voice but it was there was a piece that came over me as I was thinking,

you know, it's now or never, Jared. Yeah. You know, your life is a wreck. Mhmm. And I committed to that night, I was like, I'm gonna finish the program and I'm gonna serve the Lord whether or not I ever see my wife and kids again. Come on, man. And from then on, I could map out an insane

story of restoration. So Yeah. Yeah. I just I love being reminded how good God is. Right? Like just like, even even when you had the wrong opinion of him for so long, thought so poorly of him, you know? And, like, there's always a thing inside of you that's like, am I like, I want God to be this good God. I want him to be all the things that people are telling me. But, like, the the people around me that are trying to explain it to me, like, they're they're either telling the story really wrong or God really sucks. Because like this doesn't seem like any of it's true. Yeah. And like and like just to have him

like, I've been down that road before where it's not an audible voice, but a thing shows up and, like, there's like a there's like a like a phrase or like a a really big calm feeling over, you know, and you're like Yep. You you end up taking this big old breath and you're like, whatever all the things that I had lined up to fight him with, he like swoops away with one quick god movement and he's like, are we done now? Yeah. And you're like, alright. That's okay. Yeah. There's something beautiful about a god that knows you so intimately and, like, knows every bit of the broken. Mhmm. And, like, every bit of the things that you have tried to hide from everyone else, tried to hide from yourself that shame has told you is, like, unforgivable, that god couldn't possibly use you in or take you back from, the the the god that sees every bit of that, but then loves you so much that goes, I'm I'm gonna love this person enough to come in in this moment

and peacefully say, we gotta go. Yeah. Like, we gotta we gotta move. But that that's where the magic happens. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That that that is that is the magic sauce of Chicooteague when students can encounter that which you just described and feel that piece that you were describing, the rest is history. Oh, totally. Yeah. Can continue to hang on to that because you have ideas of what my mom thinks of me or what my wife thinks of me, what my dad how he failed me or I was beat here or this happened to me. Nobody's gonna love me. And when you have a personal encounter with Jesus and he's saying, it's okay. I love you. You're enough. You're my son.

Then it's it's time to it's time to work. Exactly. It's time to work. It's lightning strike of circumstances that god's like, if you respond here It's time to work. I can change everything. And it's that I can redeem all of it. I can change all of it. And everything I've ever said about you and everything you've ever been told about me is true. Yep. And, like, I'm here. I love that so much. It's it's it's so crazy that, like because you could read the bible flat your whole life Yeah. And never miss him calling you son. Mhmm. You know, I miss it every time. Right? And then when he does it and, like, the weight of that, like like, both falls on you and gets lifted at the same time. He basically replaces it with this. You know? And he's like, you're my and you're like, look. I whatever you do, I'm in. Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. And you like and and god's like, I will help you restore. And where restore is not gonna happen, I will help you cut. Yeah. And I don't think there's any wrong way to come to know the lord. Right? But for me for me, it wasn't by way of reading the bible and like, wow, this is cool. This is I believe this. It wasn't Awana. It wasn't church camp. Sure. He he was real to me first. Yeah. And then I was like, everything about him has to be real. And then I started to dive in and I was like, oh, wow. This is What an encounter, man. This isn't just you know? That's incredible. It's like, wait, this is capital t truth. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. Insane. So so from there, what you're still you're still at Sheep Gate. Yep. And so so what happens from there? And maybe like how how do you see some of the relationships that were around you restored? Okay.

This so you guys might know Michael Foreman. Mhmm. Yep. Michael Foreman would do my monthly evals up until that point and he pumped he pulled me in his office and he'd ask me questions. I'd look at the door. I wouldn't even give him the respect to look at him. Like, he he was young. He had in my opinion, hadn't gained my trust. I was trying to disrespect him. Yeah. Right? Like, you haven't earned it. Leave me alone.

Get let's get it over with. So next morning, I come down and I've done enough programs in my life where I was like, let me get all the education and requirements out of the way early because your family's probably not gonna be around early. Mhmm. And then when your family starts and this is me hopeful, you know, hopeful thinking. When your family comes around, you don't have to worry about education or requirements. You can kinda focus on the the energy that you know, you can focus your energy into the the family and fixing things and moving forward. Yep. So I went to him, had never said a full sentence to the man. And I came to him, was right before Christmas and back then they were doing seven day passes when you had been there five months I believe. Mhmm. I'd been there three months. Christmas was a few weeks away, maybe a month and he said

I said, you know, Michael, my wife won't let me come home but I'd love to go see my kids for Christmas. And he looked at me and not with like, oh, I got him now or now he but needs with genuine love and was like, well, how long have you been here? I told him three months. He's like, how long or he's like, where are you at in your education process? I said, I'm done. He was like, you're done? I was like, yeah, I finished it. And he was like he wasn't even in charge of passes. He was like, what if I could get you home for Christmas?

And I broke and I cried and I I haven't cried in years at that point. Like, they tears just didn't work. Sure. Yeah. Right. And I cried like a baby and so he got me home. I remember the lady who was doing wives ministry came to me and was like, what's on your kid's Christmas list? And I could hardly pack clothes they sent me with so many gifts for my kids. I have five kids. Right? So I'm on this bus with all these kit with all these gifts and I remember Michael telling me before I left, he said, Jared, he said and I was staying at my mom's house because my wife didn't want me home. Mhmm. I said, Jared,

he said, go home and serve your family. Mhmm. He said, don't have any expectations, just go serve. And I went home, still stayed at my mom's, but while my wife was home, I'd come home, you know, clean and help with kids and there was a honey do list of things that I hadn't been around to do. Sure. And I just served and it was not you know, like Michael said, I didn't have any expectations. I just served and I got on the bus and I came home. There was no fireworks,

there was no wife saying I love you now, I wanna be with you. I came back. And now looking back, I think that peaked interest in my wife because that was something that I had never done. Sure. Yeah. There was always conditions, there was always expectations, there was always a motive

but there was none. And I I believe when I released my family that night in my bunk Mhmm. And took that step to God, he started taking steps from Iowa to Chicago and started speaking and softening my wife's heart. Right. So wife's this point, wife's unsaved, kids are unsaved. Yeah. We kinda lived that life.

So there was a wives weekend which she had always ignored. Mhmm. Sure. She'd ignored the ladies, she'd ignored the process, and she showed up and I didn't know she was coming. Well, that's cool. So so I had been there at this point at six months and she just shows up and she's like, don't think this is us getting back together. Yes,

ma'am. Yeah. You know? So she comes. First night is like worship. Worship. Wife's standing in the back. I remember this lady's up front worshiping with her shoes off. My wife's like, what is she doing? What in the world? Right? So I'm like, I don't know. You and me both. Yeah. So the next day, there's a speaker and they had a they were they were getting a pool out front. They were doing a huge baptism and I think they invited the community for it. So there was a speaker

and I hadn't been I hadn't had physical touch from my wife in six months at that time and the speaker was I don't remember what they were speaking about but she grabbed my hand. I remember like getting chills and I tried to act like I didn't feel it. Right? You know, like, just keep keep paying attention, you know. So speaker's over. We're going to get something out of her van and people were lining up for baptism and she we're at the van and she said something along the lines that she wanted Jesus in her heart. So we we prayed

that together and then she said, I think we should get baptized together. So we went and stood in this long line. It was hot outside and I'm like, man, she's gonna change her mind. Change her mind. Right? Keep going. Gotta get in this bar. They get me up there. They get they get her up there and the guy in the water, there was two guys in the water and staff were on the ground praying.

And they were you know, speaking words over people as they were baptizing them too. And they, you know, got her in the pool and then they're like, well, are you you're with you're Jared's wife? You know, make the connection. Like, Jared, why don't you come in here too? And they baptized us, you know, down with the old Mhmm. Up with the new together. And that that was the start of the restoration and and and life wasn't perfect after that. Right? Like, there was still a lot of work to do but I went to the Omaha part of the program and I remember telling her, you know, I wanna come back and serve. And she was like, absolutely not. We're not moving to Iowa.

Not happening. She also got the pamphlet. But she's growing. I'm growing over these next couple months and we're on a pass in a hotel room and she we're laying down and she was like, I think I think we need to go back to team challenge and serve when you complete. Right? So I'm like, wow. Okay. So we we make it happen. I mean, and she's still a baby Christian at the time and this is right before COVID. Yeah. And she had been at the same job in Chicago. This is before no one in her office was

remote at the time. And she went to her boss and she's like, hey. I wanna put in my notice. We're we're doing this as a family. And the boss was like, well, will you hear a counter? And my wife's like, I mean, I'll hear it, but we're we're gonna go. Sure. Yeah. And he offered her a remote position, her same position, and a raise. Oh. Right? And I'm I'm going into ministry, maybe on interim pay. Yeah. Right. So it was just what she needed. Yeah. Right? God showing up tangibly like saying I got you guys. Of course. You know, so so 2000

it was 2020, January 2, we moved to Colfax and since then, all the kids have accepted Christ. One of my daughters went on to do YWAM. Come on. Kids are playing college sports, girls are thriving. Yep. Thank you, Jesus. You know, so yeah. Rest your god.

He did his thing with us for sure. Yeah. That's awesome. Wow. Yeah. I love that so much. So so how how would you describe your current role at Sheepcate? So I'm the program director. Okay. And what that entails is on the staff side, making sure the staff are properly informed,

and serving the students the best of their to the best of their ability. Yeah. But it's also to be there for the guys too and and my role has changed since since I've, I guess, promoted Mhmm. For the lack of better words, to more staff focus. Mhmm. And I do the disciplines for students so I can get for the guys who aren't trying to change Yeah. It yet. Right? It's god's time. Jared, you don't wanna go to Jared's office. It's bad. The Chicago comes out. You know, I mean, it can.

It it definitely can. I you know, open opportunity office. But the guys that aren't there yet, they they stay away from me. Yeah. Sure. But the guys who are chasing after the Lord and wanting change even in disciplined situations. You know, we I have I have great relationships with him and I can kinda not kinda, I I do my best to walk walk walk things out with him and Sure.

So it's it's a cool it's a cool role because I'm kinda still there to lead staff but also doing, you know, what my heart loves and that's to help guys get the same freedom that I was Yeah. Yeah. Afforded. It's so it's so cool. Well, I mean, obviously, there's a lot of cool in here. Yeah. But to but to see, you know, the things that you run from are the things that God can often use so powerfully Oh, absolutely. In somebody else's lives. I just I think I think about

so so, like, I mean, not there's not a lot of things that are more embarrassing than having a porn problem as an example. Right? And, like, I mean, it's even more acceptable to be like, hey, I I got pot and booze and you're like, okay, I'm in heavens. Yeah. But like the number of like Christian dudes who are willing to go, yeah, this has been been an issue for me. Sure. And using it to help other people to like bring stuff out of shadows. And like, I know what you're going through. I know what you're struggling with. And like, the thing is just how often God uses those types of things so that there's somebody who they can connect with and go like, it's hard to look at someone who's just never had your issues. It's not like it's not like the gospel can't permeate that. It totally can. Yep. But but it's just, you know, you you can you can see the things that are coming out of their mouths that are going in their mind because they came out of your mouth. They're like Oh, yeah. You recognize it. Oh, yeah. And it's unique in that it helps.

Right? Like for me, the countless treatment centers I had been in before sitting across from me as a counselor in their clean polo and had never walked a step in my shoes. Yeah. Right? So for me to come to Sheep Gate when I did and watch staff, you know, that were five, ten, fifteen years out, married, kids, investments, vacation, like not that that means everything. But just

Well, it's Just standard paycheck would be great. Right. And and but it's right. And it's possible. Yes. Right? Yes. Like, it's possible and and it's possible because of what? Yeah. So give me that. Yeah. Right? Give me that. Right? I don't care what it looks like. I don't care what I have to do. Sure. You know, I've been sharing needles and whatever else to feed this Yeah. Right. You know, dark addiction. So why wouldn't I do whatever it takes Yeah. For the flip side? Of course. Yeah. Rest. You know you know what? I was just just thinking about that. Well, I think what's unique there is that you could hear that same message from all kinds of people and it's just as true Yeah. When it came from whoever, but it's hard hard to believe if it's coming out of the mouth as someone that like who didn't have the same life you, you know, you had. Sure. But but like to your point, like if you you start seeing people and go, not only are they saying something I may have heard before and kinda dismissed, but like, look, it's working. Yeah. It's working over there. How do I think about like, you there's shoot.

I so phrase that I use, what is it? It's like there's a holy ah. Twinkle fingers. No. Oh. A holy twinkle fingers. I don't know what you were doing. Exactly. What holy twinkle fingers? That's if you are saying that you should stop it. Yes. Okay. That's what I was gonna say. I just got embarrassed to do that. Never mind. Holy twinkle fingers? It's Scroll.

It's it's people, like, they have to reckon with something that's hard to understand. Like, hey, I don't think this is true, but it looks like it's true over there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same thing as you you think about interacting with people in the cult. Like, people like, I believe I believe people who follow Jesus or Christians are like this. But what do I do with that He's not like that at all. Yeah. And so, like, there's a dissonance in there. It's like a whole I think that's what I wanted. Holy twinkle finger dissonance. It's like like like forcing people to reckon with a reality that they were willing to write off and go, but how do I explain the witness in that guy's life imperfect as it is, there's something there that actually it doesn't fit into the category that I stuck it in, And you so I think there's I think it's powerful even if the polo guy told you the same story. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't create the dissonance that you had to like For sure. Is a pervasive liar. Like, shame is so good about showing you that like if you look at someone that has never looked like you, has never walked through the things that you've walked through, has had problems that in your approximation

seem much less devastating than the ones that you've gone through, right? Like, you can look at that and go, yeah, of course God forgave that guy. Yeah. Like, of course God's not What would do a is steal stupid gum. You know what saying? Right. Exactly. Like, that dude in the clean polo. Yeah. What okay. You lied to somebody one time? Fantastic. Yeah. I'm glad that the lord's love can cover that that with you for grace. But, like, I've done immeasurably horrible things. Like, I've done terrible things before. God's love can't cover that. God's forgiveness doesn't take that. God God wouldn't look at a dude like me and go, I died for that. Mhmm. I bought all of that. Every bit of that sin, I I purchased already. And I'm waiting to redeem what I already paid for. But when you see somebody that goes, Oh, that actually breaks that cycle of shames lies to me. Because they go, But I can't look at that dude and say that anymore. I can't look at that situation and go, Oh, that's obviously that's easy for God to forgive. You gotta look at that and go, dude, that guy's been in the same stuff I've been in and is walking in freedom and is walking feeling like the grace of the Lord and that, like, his sin was purchased. Yeah. Maybe mine was purchased too because it's no longer at this gradient where, like, I'm way down here, dude's way up here, of course. Now I get to look at we're both that have been at this rung before, God can reach down this far and grab it. Well, it's crap. That feels like the only people I get to witness to. I look like a guy who would witness to a dude who passes fake fifties at a credit union. There's a there's a play there's play there's a place for that. There's a place

for that though. And and we've got some pastors and stuff that we 've hired intentionally that, you know, haven't haven't been through the program and they they they offer such a priceless a priceless asset to our team. We do. We do talk about this a lot because, like, there's there's there's super great stories. Like, that's a lot of the things that you were saying. Right? Like, it's it's not it's not a a a lowering of the the sin weight. Right? But what what you were underestimating is how big God's grace was. Yeah. Right. Right? Like, you had all these things built up as if you were gonna reach a plateau of which God's grace is like, I can't quite get it. Yeah. And so, like, you weren't misunderstanding your sin because it weighed on you and you knew it. Right? But what you were misunderstanding was God's grace. And so, like, what we we we talk about this a lot because what's really awesome to watch god restore and renew Of course. And, like, you always forget about this dude that, like, grew up in it, and, like, he was faithful in it. And he was there, like, all his whole life, and he was, like, 70 and nailed it, like, this Enoch type character who just walking with the lord. Uh-huh. And, like, everyone's like, look at this, you know, milk toast of a dude over here that, like, got no trouble. And I think, by god's good grace, did this man faithfully pray for everyone he ran into? Uh-huh. Right? And, like, he didn't avoid all trouble. In fact, almost all the trouble he took on was somebody else's. And so like, we forget about this guy over here. And like, I suppose just as I get older, I'm like, I wish I would have been more of that guy. Right?

That dude just had the armor on every day of his life. Paul's like, by no means. And we're but like, I gotta have a great story, otherwise no one's gonna listen to It's so funny. I've been in recovery circles before where, like, I tell a little bit of my story and then, like, people are like, yeah, I totally get that. Like, I've been in those kind of shameful situations. And then my wife walks up, and my wife has the most bland, like, testimony ever because she's like, yeah, I've known Jesus my whole life. I was the one who brought my parents to Christ because I was like, hey, I'm in this. Do you guys wanna take me to this Sunday school and, like, show up? And then like faithfully walked through that, led her parents to start going to church because she was there all the time and then they found Christ and like changed their whole life, right? And for a while I was like, I don't want my wife to come into these spaces and like talk because like I don't want her to get booed off stage. Like I don't want people to be like, dude, doesn't know anything about my life. Doesn't know any of this thing. But I will tell you, the women that watch my wife talk about, she's like, yeah, I've just, I've loved Christ my whole life.

And like I've walked with him and I've done all these things and he's just, he's covered me every day and there's never been a fall or a brokenness. And my wife is sinful, that's not what I'm saying. But like, she's just walked. And to watch these women go, oh, there are people that are safe. Like, are people that have just always been safe

Yes. That I've never understood. And, like, god isn't just a god that shows up after hell has broken loose in your life. God isn't just a god who shows up when everything's broken. God is a God that shows up and like is always there. And there was something beautiful about watching these women go, I need to talk more to this woman. Yeah. Because like she's got a story that looks nothing like mine and I'm I'm even more intrigued to know about it. Because like they've heard all the stories of women who have gone through sexual assault, women who have gone through broken marriages and broken relationships and have been abused by fathers and stepfathers and all these different things. And she's like, I just that wasn't my story, but that doesn't mean I wasn't walking with the Lord and needed him to walk with me. And they just go, I don't have to be a product or defined by my broken story anymore.

I can be defined by the God who wrote it and like allowed me to walk with this. And it's so beautiful and like I think that's totally fair is we get the side of going like, I can only listen to someone who's been through hell. And that's very true in a lot of situations and that space is so beautiful when God shows up and redeems it and just cleans up that mess. But there's we cannot discount the beautiful stories that are Enochs that are walking with the Did you say you had a little bit of a different story than your wife? Yeah. And I I think what what attracts me to that is not

just that she had that different walk Yeah. But that she carries the same grace and love that God does and is able to marry you. Yes. Right? That is we're all judging. She's not judging you and what what people need is they need to see the hands and feet of That's exactly right. Yep. And that's her. Oh gosh. Right. That's And the beautiful story that we get to tell because like I get to go to people and go, my my wife walked with me Yeah. Through hell. Yeah. And I was the one who was bringing it to our door. Yeah. And I was the one who was inviting it into our living room and into our bedroom. And my wife faithfully, like when I came clean to her about all the gunk, all the broken, all the stuff, even after we had been married and I went, babe, it never stopped. Yeah. Like it never went away. I stayed sinning and and breaking your heart. I betrayed you in all these ways. My wife turned to me when I told her the lowest of the low crap that I'd ever told her, and she just looks at me and she goes, okay.

And I'm like, what do you mean okay? And she goes, I'm your wife. Like nothing changes. Nothing changes here, but you get your butt to this. You better make sure you're talking to the men in your life that you trust, that you're not afraid of Yeah. That aren't in those situations that you can go, fellas, I screwed this up and I'm in hell and I need your help. And she goes, I'm not going anywhere. Yeah. And, like, my wife looked at me and forgave me in those moments to where shame that had lied to me my entire life no longer had a voice because of that woman. Yeah. That's right. Like, it no longer had a voice because she looked at me and went, I'm not perfect, but I got God and I can forgive you in this moment because I know my And like her identity, I tell you, I tell you sometimes that she has a very like, I always walk with the Lord story, and sometimes if you're looking at it wrong, doesn't sound like a powerful testimony but I can tell you flat out the strongest

and most like holy terrifying woman I've ever met is my wife because she like I'm not afraid of her, I'm afraid of her in right ways but like in in many situations I look at her and I go, Oh, I'm not just talking to my wife in this situation. She walks with my father. That's I know her daddy. That's the thing. I know her daddy and like I

know he knows everything. Like I know he knows every bit of this and he loved me enough to yoke me with that. And like I can walk humbly with my father now in any way looking to smell like Christ because my wife held my hand and went, I'm not leaving. Yeah. Like, I'm not walking from this. I'm pissed, but I'm not walking from this. And I love you enough to hold your hand as you lead me towards my father. And I'm like, deal. Okay. I'm gonna do that. And that's terrifying. Tell me that don't wreck every category. Dude, like it just it is something different about going like, oh, this woman knows her father. Like I I had there's no manipulative power in my broken past that says that I can do the things that I've done before to women that I've done before and treated them horribly because my wife isn't standing on sand. Yeah. Like my wife is is literally built on a rock and she looks at me and she goes, you can't hurt this. Yeah. Like you can't hurt this, but you better get your butt up on this rock with me. Yeah. Dang. Yeah.

God's good. I tell you what. Yeah. I tell you what. So what well, maybe let's let's talk a little we talked a little bit about how maybe you're hearing the story and I come to mind. Right? Like you listen to Jared's story, listen to some of the story that we're talking about.

And maybe there's an encouragement in here to to have hope. Like there's a there's a lot of places that feel like that feel like it was the last stop in people's lives. I've I've had it. I've seen it in in people that I'm close to, people that we've tried to help and you're like, I don't see how they come back with from this. And the reality is is they won't personally. Mhmm. But I mean, God ain't seen a cliff he can't navigate. Sure. And so and so have have hope. It doesn't mean that it's not going to be a struggle

because humans continue to make choices that cause them to be struggles. And sometimes it takes that for people to get to a spot where they're willing to go, my way ain't working. But people will do a lot to exhaust their way. And like, I don't even say this to think about addiction like stuff or life consuming things. I don't know. I probably could come up with some pretty good things in my own life right now where I'm like, lord, I'm just trying to tie this thing off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna handle this my own way, and then I'll check back in. You know? Like I don't need to hand this to you, father. I'm gonna hold this. It doesn't have to be a boulder. It can be a pebble in your It don't mean it's not causing you trouble. I think that's that's actually a great thing to think about because, like like, sometimes and and I always thought, like, I I don't know. Maybe god's just like, this has been a gift to me. Right? It's like, I look like some of the stuff that is life controlling issues. Right? And I think I have those. Mine just aren't illegal.

Do know what I'm saying? No. Mine Totally. Mine just aren't causing, like, the level of of of harshness that that you know, god's, like, trying to get you to a place where you see him and and, like, my I mean, I could just as easily smoke a pack of Bronson's every two hours, and it's completely legal. Nobody cares. No one's like, what's wrong with that guy? You're ruining society. You're breaking your mom's heart. Same thing. Shoving them away. Exactly. You know what mean? And so, like, it could it could be Juju Beezer, you know, or nerds, candy, like, anything that's controlling you. And so, like, we like, whenever we say addictions or life controlling issues, everybody's mind goes like this big red letter, like your main line in heroin. Yeah. You know? But, like, you could literally be Twix barring yourself to death. Agreed. And everyone's like, yeah. He's pretty stand up member of society. That's not Jesus is offering freedom from all the things that control you. I often think about that, like, whatever. I'm how old? I'm, like, 43 years old, and I have a hard time saying no to the gas station and saying yes to a sit up. Okay? Like, just I just don't I literally stopped at the gas station on the way here. I never felt more known in my life. Everybody everyone but Jared has been identified in the room. So so but here's the thing. And so, like, you know, you you kinda I'm not super hard on myself. I'm like, I I said I was gonna do it. I tried to do it. I didn't really keep to it. Oh, crap. I stopped and and got the thing again. And you maybe you do it three or four times in a week or three or four times every two weeks. And the thing is is me and the guy that I know who has trouble saying no to meth have got the same blocker in their Same problem. Right. It's like I like, he lost a moment. I lost a moment. The thing that I lost a moment on just isn't like one society doesn't look down upon it, and it's not like eating up my insides near as bad. But like the same lack of I didn't follow, I didn't honor, I didn't, you know, I didn't tell the truth in any of these things. Like it's the same thing. Yeah. And I got a lot of simple like I I think about differently about people who are struggling with the thing that just happens to be killing them faster than the thing that I tried. Sure. And then I'm doing, you know. Like like you said though that you know, God

offers freedom from everything and I think what's cool about at least from my experience with Sheep Gate, getting rid of or or experience free experiencing freedom from life controlling substances or issues, the feeling feels great. Yeah. Right? So once the drugs are gone,

then it's like, am I eating too many Twixes? Let's attack that. Right? Or or am I stopping at fast food? Let's attack that. Right? So I wanna keep you know, that feeling feels good and I've kinda learned how to how to combat some of that those thought process and and it's like, I I wanna keep peeling back the onion. Yeah. I think that's just like a militant attack of whatever you're putting on the throne in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Like recognize anything else that isn't God sitting on that throne is idolatry and sin and brokenness. And anything where you go, God, your power isn't strong enough for this thing, or I'm not trusting you with this, or I love this more than I love your ways, it's gotta go. And too often we look at that and go, if it's not catastrophic sin that breaks your life and the people around you, it's not that big of a And it's just not a way that the Bible talks about or any like Jesus does not speak about it this way that like, oh, I'm here for the big ones. Like, I'm here for the big stuff. Yeah. But like anything else, no, not I'm super worried about it. It's like, none. Any bit of of this beat piece that you break of the law, like, it's all broken and and and lost. Yeah. It it is interesting too that, like, just the things not even just, like, societally, but, like, like, Christian society. Like, we got we're like, ah, you know, we can't let the drunkard in here, but, like, every one of you is getting, like, soaked in greed and arrogance. Yep. Right. We're pretty comfortable with that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's gonna be We don't like to get all wild enough about that arrogance. As long as we can't see that your house is on fire, we're fine with it. But if you've got dark closets that are on fire, we don't care. I just I've been reminded of this story because like like I've had experience with fellows that went through Sheepcake, right? And so like we do a hymn sing at our house and I invited them out like couple three years ago and it was awesome. Like they were great to talk to and they came up when they got here and they're like, Hey, you should be careful. We really like to get into worship. I'm like, What do you mean? They're like, we we might do the helicopter. I'm like, definitely wanna see this. Yeah. And so like but the reason I remember this story is because we're talking about like like sheep gate is basically like, we don't want anything owning you. Right? Yeah. Right. The thing that we're trying to let you rely on Jesus. And so, like, they show up and, like, they're super excited and they're they're super cool to talk to. And I was and then they all started migrating towards the coffee pot. Like like, 15 of them. And I'm like, hey, man. What are those guys doing? And then all of sudden, we're out of coffee. And I'm like, I made enough coffee for a 150 people.

And I'm like, I Sure. It's, like, not as but not a 150 dudes. They're gonna suck down 15 cups. I said, hey, fellas. What's what's going on with the coffee? They're like, well, we're off coffee. We're like, we get, like, one cup a week, and I'm like, well, no one told me the rules. I basically put a big bowl of mess over here for you guys. Like, I feel terrible. Yeah. We've had guys brew coffee in the shower and sock. Oh my gosh. Like, it it gets and and we don't they get I think it's a cup a day or two cups Which is reasonable. It is. Because if if you It is don't reasonable. You don't we've taken we got you know you can, like, need medical attention from too much caffeine. Yeah. That's the thing. So there's like there could be midnight runs to the Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So like you gotta It's stopping your body from doing things it's supposed to do. Like, yeah. Absolutely. It's a it's a real thing. And some people are at that place where it's like, well, I can't have this. I'm gonna overindulge in that. And it's just like

I will tell you. I've gone to AA meetings before and, like, we're in a room that probably supports no less than 25 people comfortably. They have a percolator that is the size that you would get at a full size truck stop. Like this thing is rocking through gallons of coffee. And I'm like, this room can't support more people than like a real big living room. What are you guys doing? And then I'm watching throughout this meeting as people are going and getting third, fourth, fifth, sixth cups of coffee and I'm like, Oh yeah, I get it. I forgot where we're at. Like I totally understand. This is the one thing they're allowing themselves in this situation. That dude's shaking in the corner and I'm like, I don't know friend, maybe we gotta go down to a K Cup and a Keurig. Maybe make it a little bit more laborious to get six cups in. But that's totally fair and that's funny. Just so I could round out that story because it wasn't to roast the dudes. It was more like like I because I knew what they were like, where they came from and what they were doing. Right? And, like, I was I was convicted

because I'm like, like, these guys basically reset their life. Yeah. Right? They said, look, it's all gotta go, and we're gonna let god build up a house. Right? And I thought, I don't have near, like, the the restrictions on my life, the boundaries that I should probably have. And, like, it was just in that moment because I had a bunch I had a bunch of people there, I needed to go do a thing. And, like, I just started going through it with my I'm like, lord, I just I don't guard my life the way that you do. And, like, these fellas are convicting. They didn't even say anything. They're willing to do the helicopter, and they're willing to drink a bunch of coffee. And I thought, I am so glad I invited these guys. Right? Like, they're just I I just watched them, and I'm like, they've they've reset their whole life. And they say, god, build from a and when god is wants to be generous and go, hey. I'm gonna have coffee in my house. Yeah. You guys can go two cups in. You know? And they're like, this is the best day ever. I'm like, I could drink seven cups, and I wouldn't even think to thank him. Oh, yeah. I'm saying that. Like, really convicted about the whole thing. Yeah. We are we are so saturated with comfort and, like, saturated with with things that we it's our way of enacting our own power. And, like, rarely ever do we go like, God, I don't want anything unless it's from you. Yeah. Like I just don't look at my life that way. And I'm I rarely ever am I going, if I'm your temple,

it ain't clean in here. Like it's not clean in this place and I'm inviting into you this space and asking you to make it holy, and I keep bringing in crap. Like, I keep putting gunk in in the ceremonial bowls, Lord. I rarely ever take a stop stop at my life and look and go, like, beyond just the catastrophic things I've done before, like, what else has gotta go? Yeah. What else needs to go? And I think that that's that's such an very refreshing way to look at that from the perspective of, like, I'm not just here for the big things. Like, I'm god is not just asking to come into your life and clear out the big fires. Like, he wants everything that's not of him to be gone. Yeah. And we just when we have freedom, rarely ever do we in any way, one, survey ourselves that way, but two, offer God that power and go take all of this and then follow it up by not continuing to bring more stuff in. Right. You're not like, hey, Jesus. I got more freedom. Help me figure out how to spend it. We're like, hey. I got chains. Where you at? Right. Exactly. How many times have I said, God, I'm gonna invite you into this space, and then I keep shutting him out of the door again and then piling crap back in the closet. Yeah. As you do zoomies around the room. Yeah. Lord and everyone else. Look into that corner. I don't want you to see what's back here. And god's like, what a what a, like, a a a superficial way you've invited me into this space. I want to inhabit the temple, and you keep me in one section. Like, my presence is enough to take on all of this so much so that when people come anywhere near you, they should feel me. And rarely ever do I treat my body that way. I always thought I remember there was a sermon I did one time, and for some reason, like, that particular image of, like, people letting Jesus into only parts of the house was so funny to me because, like, there was just this image that Jesus, like, walked standing awkwardly in her living room looking around, like, can I go in

or, like You gotta do not go there sign, Jesus? Looking in the medicine cabinet and stuff. And and it was so comical because you're like, he He already knows. And he what are we doing? It's such a facade. What secrets do you think you're holding from the holy of holies that knows everything? Right. He created everything about you and watches all of it, and you're like, I really hope he doesn't see in this corner. Yeah. Like, I made the freaking corner. What do you mean? I got eyes everywhere. It smells like glade air freshener in here. Who are you fooling? You're fooling. Fooling. I'm super I created senses. Shut up. I'm right here. Oh, man. Hey. You're listening to Live From The Path. Thanks for hanging out with us so far this evening. Hey. If you got feedback for us on the show, can hit us up on the Live From The Path complaint line. Number is (515) 517-0085. 517-0085. That's call or text (515) 517-0085.

It is the complaint line because that's most what people will use it for. But if you have good things to say and you need an outlet for that, I mean, I suppose. Yeah. You could say nice things about Jared and then get back to reality and tell us we suck. Like, I think that's perfectly acceptable to use the the complaint. As a matter of fact, I might even send a text message to the complaint line that says, hey, Jared was real good. You guys all suck. I will tell you this, though. I did get a I did get a message on the complaint line this week. And it was because at the last show last week, I said, hey. I got a big surprise coming. Big surprise in life from the Pathland. Big surprise. Dang it. And I said oh, what's that, Mike? What? That's I might know what's coming. So I say I say, big surprise coming. Give me a week. And then I get a text on the complaint line three days later and says, Mike's let the cat out of the bag. Has a picture of him showing off the surprise to numerous people. Numerous people. Excited about it. It sounds like you're really excited about it. K. I'm excited about it. I don't know why, and people love me when I show them surprises. There's

the reality. I'm I think very low myself. I need people to fill my cup up and be like, hey. You brought you you brought a surprise to me. You are that creepy fisherman that's got the $1 bill on the end of the thing. It was just like, hey. Love me. Hey. See? I know stuff. I got something cool to show you, friend. Anyway, Mike was called to repentance through the complaint line, and he's not repentant at all. He's in fact, he he showed more people later on that week. He say it. I have He probably doubled down. I have yet to feel the lord's conviction. Right now, it's just from you guys. And I could shoulder that all day long. That'll bother me at all. That's a real good way to take in a rebuke from a brother. Mike says the complaint line is not the holy spirit, and so

wanted to see how it shakes out. Spirit of discernment is within me, and I didn't hear anything from you. Okay. See, neither one of you descend like a dove. Okay. We're gonna ignore the fact that everybody that Mike knows knows a secret. I'm still not gonna tell you. I do hope I do hope I was hoping this week, and I ran into some some troubles, but maybe next week. We'll see. Maybe you can get a bag for the excuses you keep bringing on why this thing ain't ready. Fairly certain there's something in Proverbs 23 about the exact thing you're doing right now, friend. You gotta figure it out. Stop dangling secrets in front of people and then not showing up wasn't being. It wasn't a secret. I thought you were a drippy faucet. I gotta do better mold testing. Wife. I thought it was a wife complaining on the roof. Solomon. Yeah. Solomon,

Proverbs 24. Okay. Let's let's real quick, because we we We gotta wrap it up. Yeah. We gotta wrap it up. But I just the the one question that I had and I and I think I think maybe we should we'll pick it up maybe longer in a different time too because I'd love to you know, anytime, Jared. I know you get up early, but, like, doors open. Okay. But, like, just with the stuff that you've seen, I think there's always people with a thing in their heart that says, I wanna serve Jesus. I wanna serve people.

But there's it's hard to tell when you're helping and when you're not in, like, provision of I think about your mom allowing you to sleep on the porch. Right? How how many times you let that happen? How many times, you know, hey. I just need $5 to tide me over to help me get to my friend's house. But but like, just those types of needs and like, I I just it's the real need. Like, sometimes they're real needs and they're the thing that makes the difference. And then sometimes they're just manipulative things and like it's super hard to sort out. And I think I think people I think it's hard. And, like, I know you see it from from all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. And I think maybe we started with maybe it doesn't get all that less complex. But, like, don't I know, anything you would share with folks who are thinking about how to help people without contributing to their destruction? So there's three things I think of when I think of enabling. One thing I do now is I try to

be prayerful. Mhmm. Right? And be in step with the holy spirit, not just, you know Not just your buddies. Not just my buddies. Yeah. The holy Because I think there's quick story, there was a guy who went to Sheep Gate, left

the night before I was riding down where he said he is homeless. And I was with my wife and I'm like, hey, what if, you know, what if we see him? And we didn't see him but the next day I was going somewhere and I saw someone walk like the back of him and I thought it was him. Uh-huh. I did a U-turn, called my wife. I was like, I think I see him. So I pull up. He's walk cutting through yards and I'm like, I yell his name. He turns around. I roll the window. You know, I said, come here. So he comes, he gets in the car, so you need a ride somewhere?

And he gets in my car and I'm I'm smelling him, I'm talking to him, I'm looking at him, and I drive him a couple blocks where he wanted to go and I'm praying as we're in the car, and he doesn't ask me for anything.

Yeah. And I felt led to give him money, and I rarely give money. And I gave him $20 and I said, you know, I don't care what you do with the money. Just promise me you'll at least get a bag of chips. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. You know what? I sent him on his way and I haven't heard from him. Right? I'll do that. Yeah. So there's times where I do feel led to do things like that, but it's not when they're asking me per se Sure. Yep. When I feel pressured. So that's one thing. I would encourage people to be prayerful. Another thing, my son wanted to go he he wanted college paid for to play football. Yeah. And early on in his high school time, my wife and I would we'd we'd sit at the round table. Right? We'd say he needs to do this. He needs to do that. What about this? Let's do that. Let's get him in that. And neither one of us played college football. Right? Yeah. You know, and it and it came time where we're so invested in him and we're arguing about things and I finally said, Nicole,

we need to talk to the people who do this and stop acting like we do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So I would encourage families to talk. There's people who do who deal with addiction every day. Yes. Yeah. So so don't try to reinvent the wheel. Yep. Right? Talk to people who do it. That's That's my second thing. And then the third thing is I think what it takes for an individual to achieve or to gain freedom is for them to put their hands up and surrender. Yeah. Right? Yep. Everything. Right? And for us, it's god. Surrender to god. Say, god, here I am. Have your way. I've been doing it wrong. I'm sorry. And we're in his care. Right? We believe that. And I think families need to do the same thing with their loved ones. Mhmm. I think they need to put their hands up and they say, God, you've got them. I'm giving him to you or I'm giving her to you. Yep. And just like you want that individual to trust God to do that in their life, we need to trust it as their loved ones to do it in their life. So

it's multifaceted but Well, that number three smacks in a way. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had a I had a small okay. This is gonna seem like not near as impactful but it's along the same lines. But I thought of it because of the story about college. Yeah. One of my kids is just had started college and she's not quite sure where she wants to go or what she wants to go to college for so she's taken some some early classes and there's some things that that she's interested in. And I just remember, like, her mom and I and her having a conversation and there's just a lot of kind of the same thing. Like, we're talking about something like we know what it is to be a an archaeologist Yeah. Or linguist or something. I'm like, I don't we don't know any of these things. And we're not even

it's 10 steps down the line, these questions and thoughts that we're having. We're not even one or two steps in. And I just remember thinking that, like, we don't have to know all the things and, like, do I not trust Jesus with her future? Like, if God is good and when she's listening, isn't this just gonna go the way that it's supposed to go and it doesn't require me to like mechanize the whole and set it all out? Because then what it sets up is that like either she's gonna disappoint her parents or we're gonna be like questioning I mean, I wouldn't question what God was doing. But you know, like you set expectations and then they're not met because they should not have been. The problem was that you set an expectation is like this is how it's going to go. And it it doesn't mean that like you just sit on your butt and don't do anything until the Holy Spirit forces you over. There's plenty of good prescriptions in scripture that you should just be out taking action. Yeah. But I I do think the risk is is that like we we there's things where we take over the God position, especially when it comes to kids because you're like, I them this far. Isn't it my job to continue to guide them? I'm like, I don't know. They said yes to Jesus. Maybe we should just Yeah. Like let that happen Yeah.

And not not think that like we have to prescribe all the things. And so I I think it took the temperature down a little bit on that conversation, but it's of a similar Yeah. Ilk just to recognize it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Hey. You're listening to life from the path. Jared's gonna hang out out with us. We just got a few more minutes. I think we'll do the dear life from the path. Okay. And then we'll save some of the other stuff for a show in the near future. But, anyway, Jared will still be here in case there's Jared, if you have any advice in reaction to these questions, you gotta you jump in. Okay. Okay. Alright. Ready? Yep. Dear life from the path. Yes. My husband, Andy, and I have been together for twenty five years, married for sixteen. We have three kids, ages 14, 11, and nine. Our marriage has always been a happy one. Andy began a government job five years ago, and after two years, he was traveling a lot. Once he started traveling so often, I had a hard time adjusting to being everything for my kids and not having his support, and he began to resent me for getting so upset every time he left. Travel was not supposed to be part of the job. We have had huge fights. Andy is drinking a lot, and I found out he had an affair. This has been a huge personality change for him. The man I married would never have had an affair or treated me the way he has. My husband is angry and distant all the time. We are in counseling and trying to figure out if we have anything left to salvage of our relationship and for our kids. I keep getting mixed signals about where Andy stands. In some conversations, he's all in. In others, it's like he can barely look at me, like I did something wrong. Am I a fool for trying to work this out? I

don't I don't think you're a fool for trying to work this out. I think I think hope is powerful, and it's if in fact, if you don't have any hope, it's done already. This Yeah. Right. He's a this man's a problem, and he's he's struggling. Whether he's struggling because he wants to or whether this is something that he's fighting hard on is not particularly clear. But,

no, I I would on the base question, I don't think you're a fool. Yeah. I like, this is it's it's pretty classic. It's not just of dudes in general, but it, like, it did this is kind of a general dude thing. Like and and, like, funny enough, like, along lines of addiction, like, you like usually when folks want to paint a picture, they give you one option and say, this is how you can help me. Right? Or, like, this guy sees, hey. I have to have a job. I have to have this job. Have I to keep this job that causes me to travel. Right? And then from, like, 3,000 feet up, you'd go, quit. You need to stop traveling. Need to hang like Yeah. Right. Like, we'll sell real people? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Real people. Yeah. To answer the question, I'd I'd need to know if he quit the job. No. Yeah. Because if he if he didn't quit the job, then You think she might be fooled? Think she might be fooled. Yeah. Yeah. There's something yeah. That's I think that's a fair like if if she's brought it up and said, hey, here's the deal. This is this seems to be a place where a lot of these issues that we're currently having has stemmed from. Mhmm. And

I need you to to like put your foot down and go, this is no this is where this is coming from, we eliminate this. We eliminate the stressor, we eliminate the space, we eliminate the issue of she's feeling broken at home, she's getting overwhelmed. This is very obviously a problem and a space where this has just been allowed to fester. Yeah, Now this guy like, to be fair, like, this is a revealing of a problem that already exists. Agreed. I was gonna say also. But but, like, to keep this in mind, and we talked about this, I think, maybe three or four shows ago. Like, if it was if it was just Mike's advice because I traveled for work some Yeah. I don't do it. Just don't do it. Right? Like, if you're gonna commit to a woman to be her husband and if you're gonna commit to kids to raise them as a father, right, like, sell your house, buy an apartment, and work at Walmart if these are the options for you. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, your presence there is worth way more than your money. 100%. Will always be true. And, like, you will get blinded in your I don't know. We'll call it twenties to thirties that you're like, hey. I gotta provide a better life for my kids than I had. Right? I don't want them to worrying about getting Ben shoes because the school had to provide them because we couldn't get them. And you're like, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. And if you ever think that outweighs the fact that you didn't weren't there for bath time, you're a fool. Yeah. Right. You believed a lie. Right? Because like all those bath times, they add up to a lifetime. Right? Sure do. And, the you're like, well, when they got into the World Series of Little League, I was there. And, that kid don't care. He's on the high of the World Series of Little League. They're like, my old man's here. Great. I don't even know him. I barely know that guy. Yeah. You know I'm saying? And, like, that sucks. But they noticed every time you work. Dudes can get blinded this way, and I don't think it's out of a a certain amount of arrogance. It's just not it's not wisdom. It's foolishness. You know? And so, like, yeah, I would like, across the board, no matter what you do, I like, if you're traveling, your wife and kid better be traveling with you, and this is the life you decided upon as a family. But, otherwise,

I'd get out of it right now. And I think you hit the nail on the head from the perspective of, like, this is this is probably symptomatic of much bigger things. The the statement of this is not the man I married kinda thing always gets me weird because I'm like, it is. It just didn't look this way because of certain stressors that might not have been And you didn't see the change because he wasn't at home. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. And, like, there's I think there's there's something to be said that, like, the kind of guy that, like, affairs don't just happen just because he was bored most of the time. Like, that's coming from a space where, like, there's something about him that he hated about himself was led to that. There was something about the relationship there might have been shame between you and him that he already felt the distance that, like, he felt bad about, and then that caused him to go that different way. It's just it's you're looking that's always true? No. Not always true. I just think Could that, like just be a real horndog? I think real horndogs come from a misunderstanding of what sex is. I think, like, the kinds of people that have never had a good relationship with what that should look like in a good marriage, of course, they don't give a crap about that. And, like, if you didn't learn that kind of sanctity or even if you did, but there's something where shame drives you to pornography, shame drives you to affairs, sin drives you to the further wedges in these kind of things. I just think it's foolish to look at that kind of thing as that's the only thing that I should focus on and not recognizing that those kind of actions stem from a more broken or more evil place that's just not let god in. Yeah. And I think people just lose moments because they're selfish. I I I mean, it can be that. I don't think it's always that. That's why I I said specifically it's not always that. You said it was always that, and it's embarrassing. Interesting. Okay. Was that was a weird exchange.

I don't I don't know if we were arguing there, friend. Yeah. Yeah. So the overall question was, Dan, is this woman a fool? I say you're not a fool. It's worth fighting for, but he probably needs an ultimatum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is how it's direction he's gonna go. Yeah. You should yell at him and tell him he's selfish. Yeah. Or, like yeah. Here's the thing. If he don't that that's part of sorry. Life experience. Here's the thing. So if your wife is the one that has to tell you that you need to stop traveling, you've already failed at this. Right? You basically make a woman say, you're gonna have to tell me to quit. You're supposed to be leading your family, you ape. You should have quit six months ago. Yeah. Right? And said, I realize we're gonna be poor, but I'm making a bad we're making bad moves here. I I know zero dudes that travel well. Zero. Right? There's one weird guy every once in a while that can travel and be fine. Most of them? Nope. Nope. They're not we're just not built for it. We're not so, like, you need to quit right now. Yeah. Okay. Here's what the the secular says. You are not a fool. You feel your marriage is something worth fighting for. I'm glad you were in counseling together. That your husband is willing to do this with you is a positive sign. Andy is having trouble looking you in the eye because he feels guilty. Some subjects that should be raised during some of your joint counseling sessions are whether the cause of his ambivalence is that his affair isn't completely over, how important that government job is to the welfare of your family, and whether all of his increased travel was more related to the woman he was seeing than to his job. You have my sympathy. I

don't know. I mean, some of those things are great. I mean, some of these like like, this is where the complicated gets to be right. At the core of it, your whole family needs Jesus. All this thing needs to be restored. Like like, it all has to be done through a foundation of who Christ is. Because otherwise, it's his morality holding on with every ounce of strength that he's got. Yeah. And he don't have enough. He gonna let go. Yes. Know? So like See Christ yourselves. See Christ together. These kind of things will what Jesus can get into and fix. Okay. One more real quick. Ready? Okay. Dear life from the path. For thirty five years, I have liked a guy I met at church. Holy cow. Thirty five years? Wow. I'm 34. I've literally done nothing for thirty five years. I came out to the womb, and I looked at dreamy eyes over there, and I'm like, just can't wait. Look at that one. Okay. We're moving on. Maybe it makes sense. Here we go. He was the oh, he was the minister. Oh. We never dated, although I developed a strong attraction to him. He lied about his personal life and then ran off and got married without telling anyone. He had been gauged the whole time, which left me heart my hurt and heartbroken. What? Since then, I have dated other men, but while I move on physically, I haven't managed to do it emotionally. I've carried these feelings toward him for so long, and they have grown ever stronger since I became single again.

I'm not sure why. He's far beyond my grasp, and I'm too scared to reach out to him. We live in different states. Is it wow. This is getting worse. So so it wasn't like she spent thirty five years pining over him. Like, it was a long time ago, and then he got married and she continued. It sounds like it. Yeah. And lives in Austria. Here's the thing. I really wanted to be mad at the mister for a second, but I'm starting to think someone ain't taking the world in right. I loved Howie since the first day I saw him. Hold on. It's almost over. Is

this yearning for him normal? Could I be in love with him, or is it lust? I don't know. Listen. I think you're in love with the negative space that a human is existing in. I've met a lot of ministers. I I mean, I don't find myself to be too too outrageous, but, like, I can't there's not a good lot of good looking ones. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're filled with the holy spirit because they're dangerous if they're good looking. Yeah. And so These aren't the quarterbacks. These are the kickers. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. We're going who where's the base player? Yeah. He's gonna be a minister. Sometimes they're linemen. Yeah. The guy playing her lead guitar, he's not a minister. So one,

this is weird. Two, like like I I think she's telling the story like the minister, like, lied about his relationship and then ran off and married a woman. I think he just didn't tell her because she's weird. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's like, this is just my wife now, and we're gonna move out of state. Yeah. You you have not painted yourself into a good corner here, friend. Like, I this is wild to me. Like it really sounds like you have fallen in love with the idea of a human being one time and like in a minister's position, like they they they look to be trustworthy and you may never have been able to trust someone before and so that became appealing. And For then just like just

spiraled out of control. And it sounds like this has just been festering because it's rotten for thirty five years now. And Thirty five years. That wild is time. It sounds like you've never had any good foundation to stand on with any good relationships with fellas, and I'm so sorry. Like, I'm so sorry that this is the space that you're in. And like, it sounds like this is still incredibly raw, and you've never had any, like, anything to land on here. Yeah. Because your marriage, like, to this other guy, should've squashed this immediately. Right? Like, you could if your marriage was good Sure. Yeah. And you had a decent relationship with this guy, you've been like, oh, yeah. Remember what thought. Honest with your husband, Yeah. He goes That's freaking weird, Ethel. Maybe you should stop that and, like, what? I love you. Do you see that but the options she gave were like, is it possible I'm in love

or lusting after this man? Like, I kind of thought the am I just lonely and this is a nice guy that I kind of landed on, but she did not give that one as the option. No. It's either I love him or my Well, he's man candy. Yeah. There's also Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I trust this person's understanding of their options. Yeah. Right? Like, to be able to lay them out well. Yeah. Nothing about this says, oh, this person definitely gets love and love. Dan, has this happened ever happened to you as a minister? Have you ever been the good looking minister up on the pope in the summer? It's Every week. Pined after you? It happens all the time. I get all kinds of Dan Dan, have you ever been a kicker? No. No. Wait. Dan told that story one time where he went over for some, like, no normal reason, and there was some lady in a robe. Oh. No. She was in full lingerie. Oh. And she was, like, an extremely beautiful it wasn't like a cute girl. She was beautiful. She was, like, one of those, woah. And I was so naive. I had no I had no I I thought, man, this is weird. And I went in and said Why would they invite me over? About Jesus. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay. And we talked a little bit. Gosh. And and then I thought, well, this isn't going anywhere, so I'll maybe we'll meet again sometime. Yeah. Yeah. Dan, you shamed me because you walked into that situation naively and went, I just I see no harm in this. I see nothing. I I DoorDashed one time, and a lady knew I was coming to her place and answered the door in the full buck. Oh, yeah. We had a full apartment too. We it was she knew I was fully nude. Nude. And I thought to myself, hey, man. I'm the kind of fella that a gal will do this to. I'm not surprised by this at just come to me. I I got back in the car after dropping off that Pizza Hut, and I sat down in that, and I looked at the rearview mirror, I was like, that's good. This is this is what she saw, and she went, I gotta take all these clothes off. And you look at that and go, I don't I didn't even register that there was a woman here that I that's that's Well, no. I mean, I thought, yeah, she's a very beautiful woman, and she's mostly naked. And I thought because I even said, well, you you remember I was coming. Right? Oh, yeah. I knew. I'm like, okay. Well, I'm so Yep. Wait. Wait. Did Dan National lampooned this situation with legs, sir. This was Young. Right? I was in my twenties. In twenties? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was in my twenties. Anyway, happens to Dan. Yeah. Happens to Dan. It was, like, thirty years later, thought, wait a minute. I like,

thirty years later, wait. She knew it was in this room even though. Wait a minute. I'm like She was fully aware I'm I gonna be forgot to read the last sentence. Oh, by the way, his name is Dan Hudson. Dan, she's five years ago. She's been pining after you for thirty five years. Now is your time to tell her to do off Facebook right now. You're wild. No. I did I did after that. I get in my car and and call my wife, text her, whatever.

And and this was weird. This happened. And it's like, oh, okay. And then I went home, and I'm like, this explain it. This is weird just in case something ever happens from this. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. That was the right move too. She kept coming to her church. I don't know how. Hogwarts. Wow. People are bold. I give them that. Yeah. Thirty five years, Dan. Alright. Here we go. Alright. Wrapping it up. Yeah. Here's a secular's advice. I I don't think it's either one of the options you gave. I think you were in love with the fantasy of having a relationship with an idealized person upon whom you have projected values he didn't live by. I don't know about that. Yeah. That seems unfair. For some people, this seems safer than the challenges of a relationship with a real person, flaws and all. What what you are doing is wasting your time. If you really want to have someone in your life, consign this crush to the past and focus on the future. I don't think I ever watched Fatal Attraction, but is this basically Fatal Attraction? It's I've I've not seen it either. Yeah. Haven't. I don't get those channels. Yeah. Sounds like it. Yeah. I mean, just by the context. Yeah. Somebody following. Yeah. Boy. Hey. You've listening to Live From The Path. Hey. Big thanks for hanging out with us this evening. Jared, thanks for coming in, man. We really appreciate it. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Hey. You can get more information about Sheep Gate. You just you just Google it. Just do Sheep Gate, Iowa. You'll you'll find it. It's in Carlisle. It's actually the facility's pretty cool. They are. In Colfax. Sorry. In Colfax. Yeah. Yeah. And they do they do vehicle auctions. Yep. We got one coming up in a couple weeks in October. Yeah. Think it's over a 100 vehicles. Yeah. And, like, I look through them all the time, and they're pretty cool. Yeah. Then I have to tell my wife I did it, and then I don't ever buy any. But, like, there's cool stuff there. And, like, they do like, you guys have, like, a gutter? Gutters and downspout company. Yep. Microenterprise. Yep. You guys, like, install them and stuff? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. How do you do that someday? So, anyway, like like, basically, I'm saying is is, like, like, I think the especially fellows in this room, I can vouch for the work they're doing. Great. I can vouch for the for the way that they help people. I can vouch that they keep it centered on Jesus, and and they do a and, like, what like, number two was, hey. Like, why don't you ask some people who are constantly working with addiction to help you? These are the people we're gonna recommend. Right? So, like, reach out to them if you have questions, if you have people you're worried about, if you want someone to pray with you about all that and help you sort through it and you're not even ready to pull the trigger yet, like, just give them a call. Then And if in the meantime, if you got some vehicles you wanna get rid of or some gutters to put on and help those things continue to do all the good that god's designed it to do, like, yeah, I just really consider doing that. Yeah. Agree entirely. We we gave you a a vehicle once, see if you remember this. It was like a nineteen seventy something. What year?

Did did I give it? Yeah. It was in the last five years, probably. Was like, okay. What was that? We we used to hear the anyway, was like a seventy something pickup with a big boom thing on it, and it we it was a snow plow. And, like, it is the ugliest thing you've seen in your life. It it sticks out. You see that thing and go, that's different. I don't remember. Okay. Yeah. I mean, Dan, it would have been more fair if you were like, we actually gave you a Batmobile. Yeah. Hopefully, would have not asked. I mean There was a was a guy living in it actually. Thought he was Batman. It's a family raccoon. We thought it was a two for one. Can you help the Batman and also the possums? She did. Can you help the Batman? The Batmobile's in the deal. We can help. Yeah. That's right. We've heard about childhood trauma before. We can help Batman. Batman is controlling my life.

Alright. Hey. You've been listening to live from the Path. Thanks for hanging out with us this evening. I I I don't know. I'm we may not be out be here next week. I'm not sure. But in the meantime, be faithful in means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live from the Path.