Live from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper. You are live from the Path. For the holy ghost. Working for the sun. Am working, mate. Oh, yes. I am.

I am a special in love. Now And you're listening to live from the Path coming from the Pathway Studios here in Johnston Prepper. Thanks for being with us on this lovely You guys should be really excited. I have so many not this Monday guests coming up. Oh, really? Yeah. I've asked so many people to be on this show recently, and they're like, not this Monday. Like, you you hit me up. You hit me up. And they've been pulling this off for months now. Oh. So there's a list that keeps growing. Like, eventual excitement. Yeah. I'm like, you guys, hey. You wanna come on our show? Like, can't this Monday? Or in all the way or something. Yeah. I'm Yeah. There's no Mondays that are apparently good. So we'll see. I'll get them. I'm not gonna tell you who they are so that way you won't shame them when they come in. Oh, good. Yeah. I can I can barely contain my segment? Here we go. Here's where I go on the show. Two two

okay. Two big things. The first one is is in it's been a bit thematic, I think, over on the show over the last month or number of episodes, and it feels like there's it's it's kinda we're we're beating around Christianity

as a culture or as a show and not as, like, a faithful following. And and I think we hit that kinda kinda direct maybe last week, but, like, I think there have been been things around that for the last month or so. And so one of the questions is like think we got to talking about, like, okay, how might I what are the distinctions here? But one of the questions is like, why is this happening? Like, why is this even occurring? Like, in my mind, as an example, I just I actually don't understand half hearted or cultural Christianity at all. It doesn't make it makes zero sense to me. I would be like, either this thing is true, and I'm I

need to know everything I can, and whatever it's pointing me to, I'm obviously all in because it's true. Or, like, what are we doing? I don't need to come to any of these things, and I don't need any of this regulation in my life. I'm gonna go do what I wanna do. Yeah. Like, I just don't understand it. And so one of the questions is I I think starts to get to, like, what's causing this? What's contributing to it? And maybe there's a reaction to say, like, what do we if there's anything you need to do or think about differently in in that realm. So so and I I think I I have some thoughts about that. We'll see what the we'll see what the fellows have. Also,

the the I know. I Have you guys ever had well, this is the question. Maybe just a simple yes or no to start, and then we're gonna dig into it. Is have you ever done something like we call it a spiritual discipline or it's like, hey. The Bible says to do this thing. I do this thing. There's kind of an expectation, but like, it it works. Like prayer. You're like, I prayed on a thing. Look at that. Or like I studied the Bible, and you're like, I'm supposed to do this. I did it faithfully. And like and you walk to it and you're like, I don't understand what the I don't understand what the fuss is about here. Like, I didn't catch anything. And certainly,

shouldn't isn't the lord supposed to isn't something supposed to happen? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, do you think you guys have ever, like, given someone advice to pray on something and they come back, like, mad at you because you're like, I did. I'm in the same spot I was before. Like, they felt like god like, I like, we confidently said, you should pray on that, and we expected that the lord would meet them there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, they come back and would listen. Yeah. They're like, well, I've been praying, and I still don't know what to do. So I just pulled the trigger and did this. You know? Yeah. Yes. Yes. That has happened to me. For sure. Yep.

Okay. So I kinda wanna talk about that. Like, what how how is how are these experiences explainable? And then when we think about I I don't even actually, I don't even like the phrase spiritual disciplines even though oh, who wrote that book? There's a spiritual distance book that's very good. Foster. Well, there's others too, but he's the the Nobel. That's not the one I'm thinking.

Again? Either way, I like, I remember like, I read this book, I'm like, I like I really liked this book. And I was encouraged by having read about spiritual disciplines. I'm not but I'm cautious about how we talk about them. But I think the broad point is is that, like, hey, These are the right ways to go about, like, a cruciform life, a life that otherwise points in What? Cruciform form to the cross. I listened to a show. I just for, like, twenty minutes on the way in, was having to listen to a back episode because I had a bunch of youth group kids in here. And one of them thought they sounded like a dude when they talked, and I'm like, well, I better check it out. Maybe she does. And it turns out she was wrong. She doesn't sound like a dude. She sounds the regular. Yeah. But Ben had used so many gigantic words in the first five minutes of the show that I thought he can't even look around at a group of teenagers and go, maybe this is not the word to use.

Cruciform? Who the heck, Ben? I've never heard that word in my life. Wow. Really? Yeah. Richard Foster's like, what? Why would you even say something like that? I used to be in college, and professors would say a word, and I thought, you guys made this up. Like, it's it's nowhere. Yeah. I mean Yeah. Neither is spiritual disciplines. Well, that is true. I'll die on this hill. Anyway, like, the We're gonna read the Pauline epistles. I'm like, can you just say the letters of Paul? Yeah. Yeah. Why do you just say Pauline epistles? Okay. Now I this is gonna feel weird because I'm with you guys. Like, hey. Now you're wearing a Mike and Dan coat, but you're the same that walked in here. I do I read I read somebody's commentaries. I'm like, what are we what are you talking about? Why are talking like that? And then you look it up, and you're like, okay. Yeah. Like, I don't that's a $50 word. World. Everybody gets excited about this bird. This bird, but Actually, you know what's funny is I will notice quite a bit.

I've in fact, there's multiple commentaries that I were very well reviewed. And so I got I picked them up for something I was gonna teach. And the minute someone starts quoting the Latin to me, I'm like, doesn't matter to me at all. Don't care. Yeah. Right. Like I care about a Greek and Hebrew because you're trying to help me understand a context of like who wrote it and what it meant. Yeah. But the secondary translation that came after, why would I even care about this? This is Yes. Totally Great. For you to like impress people. Yeah. Anyway, broad point is, is that like what what it's is it even right to think, hey, this should work? But how do you talk about or how do you think about what it means for them to work? Are disciplines the thing that enable some of

the experiences that Christians otherwise expect, or are they the outcome? You then become disciplined and God helps facilitate that. I think these are good questions about how we think about that kind of thing. So we'll talk about that. Also, I don't want to have a full blown discussion on this, but there was something that just hit me so ironically.

We're teaching through Colossians in chapter three. Paul does this multiple times where he's like, Hey, wives, submit to your husbands. Husbands care for those sacrifice for your wives and things. And like Paul, I used to, I think Paul gets a really bad rap actually. And I don't mean just like, Oh, hey, we got different people who are interpreting this oddly or from like various camps. I like fundamentally just having gone through both Colossians and Colossians recently that I actually just think that he's not been pegged right.

And there's a great irony in the marriage business specifically that I I'll just share with you because I think it's enlightening and maybe I'll help you see those texts a little bit differently going forward. Yeah. Okay. Also, we'll do some advice on Dear Life in the Path. Let's talk about this. Why is this happening? Why does it feel I think this has been true forever. I think it's always been true that you've got people who are drawn in by the message of Jesus, by all different kinds of things. It could just be the comfort of the church, the moral guidelines that are there that again, these people are like, Go meet a nice church boy. It's not the same thing as following Jesus, but you are like, I just think it produces good things. And you know what is interesting? Actually, I have noticed this.

This is gonna fit in that Paul point a little bit. But like there's people who have like deconstructed, who have like, we're followers of Jesus or claim to be, and then they gave up the faith. But what they retained is a lot of the stuff that Christianity shaped in them. Right? Like often kindness, like the way that you see people and just some of these core things that you just never let go of which is the depth of a mercy, even if you are not associating it with Yahweh anymore.

Is just a view of the world that you get and that is actually true. I don't have a pretense that America is a Christian nation but the core tenets of which our country is founded are so steeped in a worldview that otherwise looks to the scriptures and to Jesus himself that like our society

sniffs of this, right? So it is not the governing direction but it like it's better than like it doesn't just like hint of it. It's like some of the core tenets of our society and how we think about each other and even our belief that our laws would hold are kind of tied to some of these notions. And so what's interesting then is you have this situation where people are claiming they can otherwise live a

perfectly fine life without having to acknowledge Jesus or Yahweh. But interestingly enough, the very shape of their life is dominantly influenced by Christianity or the man of Christ as he is then expressed into the world by his followers thousands of years later. And so I find it interesting. Anyway, so the question is, but like how is this, if the broad theme is people experiencing Christianity as a culture but not following. Basically any continued involvement in something that is either of or a down flow from Christianity or a church or small groups or whatever,

but isn't the same thing as someone actually giving their life and faithfully following Jesus? Like, how is that so pervasive? What enables that? What's driving it? What do you guys think? Okay. This is gonna be a hot take. Here it comes. K.

Feel like most of it goes astray when valuable human churches

try to control it and package it and make it a thing. Right? Even people that I've read, like I got real bored with the deconstruction folks circa about two years ago. I'm like, this is the same story, boys. Right? You guys came, you went, you submitted to things you shouldn't submit to, you followed the church practices, and then you decided that Jesus was no good and you had to redo the whole thing. And part of me is like, if you wouldn't have used it as a banner of your identity and just said, hey, I'm trying to figure out what my relationship with the creator looks like right now. Yeah. Okay. That just feels like a regular thing to me. And you could even if you did that on a daily basis, I'm like, let's recenter. Let's see what's going on. Let's see what I'm holding that's true, and let's see that's the things that have come in the door that I shouldn't have let in here. That would have been fine. But instead, you're like, my identity is a deconstructionist.

And I'm like, okay. I'm about done with this now. Yeah. Right? So but overall, like, even the deconstruction folks, like, they're they're pushing back against church culture things. Right? And and, like, the people who have church hurt, very few people are like, I have Jesus hurt. Yeah. Like, Jesus has hurt me. Right? Mhmm. It's always like the valuable group of people that sometimes even in their best efforts have tried to, like, brand ize without, like, it being the gross part of of a brand. But, like, they they're like, this is how our community is going to do this. And they did Jesus plus. And it's always the plus that folks have a hard time with. And by the time that they deconstruct or they get this all sussed out, Then they're like, I liked the ways, the teaching, the heart, and the love of Jesus.

I just don't like all the other stuff that came with it. And then they ended up throwing out some of the tenants that Jesus said, this is actually the stuff that comes with it. You can't throw that part out. You can throw a part like shag carpeting and like you have to have you know, all elders gotta be over 64 or something. You're like, whatever Jesus plus thing your church did that you don't like, you ended up throwing out and that's the thing that you were struggling with. And so like, it just I don't know. Like, it almost feels like maybe in our even our own presentation or our communities, we're so gung ho about making it an official community of some kind or, like, this is what sets us apart from other people, like our own stink, you know, that, like, we we leave them wanting and they just want out. Hot take. Yeah. Yeah. I think I I think that's part of it. I think it does contribute like, anytime you try to

you try to package the very notion of packaging Jesus up, packaging Christianity up required you to pick the size of the box. Even if you put all the right things in it, you know? Like there's something that you at the very notion

would go, I couldn't even possibly think about what it looks like to pick a box or to try to contain it or just this feels like hyper metaphysical. But the point is to say that the minute we said here's how to I'm package

this thing, it requires something on your end that you're simply not capable of doing even in the best of natures which is like you don't want your hands anywhere near it. Like what you want is to be able to recognize the wind when it blows and point it out to people. Was like, Did you hear that? Did you see that?

That's Jesus working. That's the Spirit moving. Like that. But the minute you try to go package that up in some way or another, and again, not with ill intent, you lose a thing and it slowly becomes more about what you can explain or control. As a matter of fact, I would say that, and this to teachers for sure, but like moms, dads, big brothers, big sisters, like anybody who's like helping talk to people about what you believe, if there are things that feel if there are no things about Christianity or the Bible or whatever that feel like they are beyond your fingertips

with explanation, I might suggest that you don't understand it correctly. Like it should feel, I don't mean just like a wonder which I think was also great, like an awe and a wonder is, but like I even think of some of the harshest things that people react to in scripture. They are like God's character with the Canaanites

and like it hits them hard. And like I understand that and it felt like a hot button topic that maybe I don't like if you can believe Jesus then let's just push what you believe backwards and say trust Yahweh. Okay, that is maybe how I might usually want to talk about it. But like even just a wonder and an awe that goes, Boy, this does not align necessarily with my gut reaction. But like there is an awe that is beyond my fingertips even in some of the things that are difficult to reconcile

that I actually love about how I think about it now compared to maybe me trying to control the narrative ten years ago so that I could be a good advocate for Yahweh, I know that feels wishy washy to some of you, and that's fine. I'm just saying that like, if God is not beyond your fingertips, you've probably boxed Him in. You know? There's we've added so many boundaries and borders, and then we have all these denominations,

all these camps that we're a part of, or tribes, the contemporary cool lingo, you know, and I just don't see that being a super biblical thing. I mean, we're gonna have differences in all this stuff. That's okay. But yeah, I like what you're saying. I mean, it's I've always oversimplified it. It's like either Jesus is real or he's not, right? Either he's lord or he's not. And we

just complicate it. Mhmm. Man, I got in this wild thing last week. I'm I'm sitting at Cheryl, my wife goes off to bed, I'm going, I'm not ready for I put on my VR, I thought I'm gonna watch some videos. Mhmm. And I almost I don't even know what to watch. Eighties videos. So I throw in some eighties music, and I'm like, okay, this is kinda depressing. That's when I was, like, a high schooler. Right? I was like, okay. I I mean, I like some of it, but some of it reminds me just of stuff. Like, don't wanna go there. Yeah. So I thought I'm gonna go to the eighties Christian music. Uh-huh. And then, like, I watched the entire Amy Grant concert, like, of her first, like, big ones. She you know, age to age album. And I anyway, just I I spent I finally took it off. It was, 01:30. I was like, crap. Need to be I should I should have gone to bed. But since then, now, the algorithms I've been watching all these interviews of all these Christian artists, and, like, it's a it's a hot mess. All the all these people who look. Those were foundational people to me Yeah. That their songs were. And and then it's like the affairs and the and the this and that and the the drugs and the abuse and the different things that that went on. And and and then of all people today, I went home for lunch, I'm watching a little interview with Steve Taylor, who was like the bad boy of Christian music back in the day. Like, he was like really hard truths, but like little wild music, I kinda liked it had his LPs.

And then he kinda went out of it, and I thought, oh, he must've, you know, well, you know, I didn't I didn't follow these people that well. And and but he's like, sounds like he's like solid, and he's even looking at it going, these people make me sick. Not not not all Christian music, but like, who's the God's Not Dead guys? Oh, the news boys. News boys. He was talking about them, and he knows all those guys. Right? And he's like and it's like and being real careful not to slam them, but maybe just saying, like, that's there's it's just not right. It's a cesspool. Yeah. These are musicians who who are, he's like, why would they go into this market when they know who you're singing about? Yeah. When they know what the message is, and they know what there's expectations that go with that. Like, maybe you shouldn't be raping young boys when you're singing about Jesus, you know? And I don't know. Just it just kinda struck me. That went way off from what we were talking about. But it it it's it's just extra stuff that we throw on there. You gotta have this market, this slick little package and look like this, but if you're not living it, what does it matter? Yeah. I I think fundamentally,

like how does this happen? We don't believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you don't you don't believe it or you believed what you what you wanted. You entered just think of it like a dating relationship. Like, there's things right in front of you that tell you that, like, people are like the person you're dating is very transparent, but you didn't you're not believing 30% of that. You're just believing the other 70 that you really wanted to see. Yeah. And like I I I can't if you you're interacting with with,

scripture or the Holy Spirit or whatever, like I do think this is evident. And like if Paul can look at it and go, Look, the creation groans and the creation itself is evidence of his existence, And like if none of this ever hits you, then like you might just be participating in a culture. And I don't even under it does have nice things to offer the outcome of a culture of people

who are like kind of even walking how Jesus walks. Like again, I don't think America is the Christian nation, but like, I mean, it's doing pretty well, formed upon things that were like Jesus kinda. And God said as much. Right? Like, the Bible portrays as if God's people reflect him out into the world. So there are aspects of his personality and aspects of his love and joy and grace and mercy that, like, are reflected off of human even imperfect humanity. Right? And so, like, God says says that, like, yes, this is you're capable of reflecting me, and that is the draw. It's his reflection that's the draw and which makes the community look like it's actually the real thing, right, when it is actually just a reflection. And so it can easily be misconstrued as if you're just hanging out with a bunch of nice people who are like minded in their way, except for you never got to the point where you're like, we are like minded because

we follow king Jesus. Right? That's what it looks like. And so, like, I don't know. Like, I found, like, especially the like the the stuff, like, all the stuff that goes with it. Like, even when people are like, they start labeling their own communities, they're like like, I've sat in so many sermons where people are like, because Jesus is missional, and that's why we're a missional church. I'm like, I mean, you could be. What if that's what God is doing. Right? I think that's a great idea. But if you're like, basically, we do this and we do nothing else. Or like, Jesus was prophetic. That's why we're a prophetic church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do this. Or Jesus is this. And you're like, you took one aspect of his reflected character and decided this is the only thing that he is. Right. Jesus walks eight miles a day, so that's what we do. Yeah. Jesus always took time to rest. We we got we're a resting, praying church. Jesus eats for sinners. We're gonna have a party. Yeah. And here's the thing is, like, all of those things are definitely true. Jesus is all of those things. If I don't know exactly what you said. Be careful. But you know what I'm saying? Like, based on scripture,

Jesus is a very complex human, not to mention a creator of the world. Right? Even as a human, he's a complex complex individual that has so many facets of like, people will try to be like, it's it's flipping tables time. Right? And, like, Jesus flipped tables one time. You know? And it's not like all he did was be like, it's table flipping time, 07:30. I gotta go find some tables to flip. You know what I'm saying? He's not just out there flipping them to flip them. And like he took confrontations head on with some people. Some people he peaceably shut his mouth and did nothing. Sometimes He would show nothing but love and mercy when judgment was completely appropriate. And He would withhold that because it

is such a nuanced, known stance that Jesus took on all these people and then we want to grab certain parts of his personality or the instances of which he acted away and went, this is the defining moment of our community. This is what we do. And you're like, you should be careful. Like, basically, we're up on offer for whatever he's doing. If God says one week that we are missional and we this like, he's like, I feel like God got us out to do all these things great. And then the next week he's like, now in the middle of that mission, though, there's corruption, and I'm done with it. I'm not mercy ing this one. This one's getting justice. So flip tables this week. Right? We're open. Like, I'm gonna speak a prophetic word into it and be like, just to know your city is coming into judgment right now, or these people are gonna be hard. All the things. You know? So, like, it's back to Jesus' words that says, I do what the Father is doing. I watch the Father and then I reflect that out into the world. And so like,

it's when we start being like, we always, or this is us, or we are the brand of people that like, that's so evident as cultural Christianity. Because like, good luck trying to nail down Jesus even day to day on what part of his character is being shown out into the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so like, I think it's it's one of the harder aspects of following Jesus

is that like He's not like zigzagging, but like He's bigger than whatever you think you can handle in the moment. And it's one of the things that's always difficult even about teaching, you know, or study, just take personal study through the Scripture. If you looked at my Bible, you would find no highlighting.

If there's under underlines, it's because I'm going to teach a thing. Not for like for my personal study, I don't do any of those things because what I find is that like I'm cautious so much about missing that I just pulled out a thing and was like, Oh, I like that. Like, what do you like that? Like, hey, we're an acts two church. Really? Like, what I mean, oh, that sounds fine except for what about acts three and four and seven? And, like, I just don't these these buckets are try to go, we can't handle more than a few of these things at a time. And so like we'll just be these two things.

Like I don't I understand it, but like it's not effective for us and it is the thing that creates culture, a Christian culture, which here's the thing. Here's what's really interesting. You should be able even with most of the denominational differences we have. You should be able to hop to the 10 churches down this road and have roughly I don't care about the same experience like the order of things or whatever. But like most of these guys should be able to say a thing that they could all then restate to each other and go, Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

Right? Even the things that were like, Nah, I don't, you know, I wouldn't probably put such an emphasis on that. I mean, still probably true. Yeah. But it's not happening that way because to the point of like what feels like branding or trying to can we cap can you capture it in a bottle? Well, can you? Do you really like, can the Holy Spirit be put in there? Can the Jesus as man and God be somehow captured in such a way that the essence of it is in your is in your walls or in your house or wherever it is you're doing, you're in the park that day? Probably not. So, like, that that actually centers around, like, to wrap up our last month is,

like, having a humble approach to the work that God is doing. Right? And, like, that is why we call it following Jesus. You're not trying to, like, anticipate his movements. You're not trying to flank like, Jesus, you take the front. We'll go around the back. Right? None of these are your ideas. None of them are our own ideas. We are simply followers of Jesus. So where Jesus is going, that's where we're going to. And some days, it's missional. And some days, it's prophetic. And some days, it's discernment. And some days, it's all the things. And and, like, stuff that you wouldn't have come up with on your own because God didn't put you on the hook for that. Right? He didn't put you on the hook to like clever the world or to brand

your sect of Christianity or to come up with ways to attract people to Him. Right? He will attract people to him. We will follow him as he does that work. Like but do you know how much humility it takes to, like, have that be your every day? That goes, I am not so invested in the path that you had me on that I am not humble enough to walk with you when you get off of it. You know? And like that is so hard because we want something that we can manage and like not even in a sinful way. We are just like, I have to anticipate if there is going to be 300 people here, we need x amount of lemonade. You know what am saying? Like it is all for good God honoring reasons that we think that. But we slowly just stop losing actually some of the mystery and the wonder Yeah. Of just following them around and going what what like and and and the question is is, like, why? And mostly, I think it's because it's difficult to follow them that way. Because it takes all of your planning out of it and all of your great, brilliant ideas that you sat in your office for twelve hours and thought, I'm gonna come up with a thing. And you're like, is our posture really like, he'll come up with a thing when he comes up with a thing. I just wanna make sure that I'm listening.

I wanna be open to the thing that he's doing. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing is it does bring into stark relief whether you are trying to put on a robe that looks like your new self or whether you're like, did you actually die to yourself? Did you actually say, look, my I'm trying to I'm treating my earthly existence as one that heaven is using to break in to earth. And so we're bringing the heaven experience here,

and so I'm giving up all the worries of the world. I'm giving up all the burdens that I felt to build my own kingdom or have my own way, and I just want Jesus' way whether that's whether I'm gonna mop the floor for the forty years or whether he's having me go on, you know, plane excursions to Africa to meet the unreached peoples. Either way, I'm gonna do it faithfully following Jesus and like are you willing to give up all the other things that the world, the physical world around you is still pulling you into and reminding you to want? And like, which one are you holding above? Like some of the most impressive people that like, maybe impressive is not even the right word, but like you can just smell on people where they actually just don't care

about some of the other world, the stuff going on around them. And sometimes it almost feels aloof and stupid. You're like, Why do you not why aren't you invested in this thing or that thing? Arguments among people and like, you know, Are you worried about your retirement? Or like just all kinds of things. Like it feels it just feels reckless in some ways, but like it's they don't they're not invested in that. They're invested in this following of Jesus and whatever is going on. And it doesn't mean you have to be wildly impractical,

I guess. But it's just like there's a freedom in it. They're free of the trappings of trying to live with one foot in a world that's been completely changed and in a life that's been completely changed by Jesus. And then you're still drunk dragging your left foot that wants to live in the world and think like the cares of it and worry about its posturing in it and what people think of you and whether all the things are working and whether God's judging you on that thing or not. Like And so you're a double minded person. You're a double bodied person and

it's exhausting, but that's actually what a Christian esque culture looks like. It's like you get the burden or like the recognition that there's a faithful and an obedience ness in following Jesus, but you didn't get any of the freedom that came with it because you took it on like a checklist or like something to portray

and not something that you just are and get to be. And so it allows that to proceed. Either this is a hot or cold thing. This is like the Laodice thing. It's not like whether you leave Jesus or it's like, you're not useful. You're not useful with dragging those two things around. It allows you to sit and be trapped in what is the trappings of a Christian esque culture

with none of the 10 times or a 100 times results that comes with actually following Jesus faithfully. K. So the question is is, like, if I feel like we got a pretty good roundup on how we got here, like and that like, it sounds like sometimes we're talking about, like, church and church leadership. We're talking about individual people. This is everybody that'd be acting like this. Right? Yeah. This is not on the hook of just like your pastor man or your elders or whoever you wanna put the blame on. This is this is us. So what do we what do we do about it? Like, if someone said, how how do I follow Jesus then? Right? If I can't count on the church structure to do it for me, and if I can't count on my everyday devotional or the lectio to tell me how to do it, like, this seems very hard to attest. Like, you're asking me to follow,

like, the like, hold on to the ankle of a walking king that is not on this earth that, like, I pray to, but, like, I can't say that I'm hearing from him all the time, or what if I just wanna do this? And, like, you make it sound like it's so imperative that I follow Jesus, but all you're you're basically saying we could blow up the whole structure of how everyone's telling me how to do it, and it may or may not be right. I don't even know. How does they're like, it's just a simple question. How do I do this? Right? Right. I got so many things going through my mind. I I I

my resistance, like, back in the church world, is, like, sometimes I've I've been in so many meetings where we're making the sausage, right, where, like, they have the consultant come in, and and here's your mission statement, here's your vision, and here's your this and that, and everything has to line up. And then so we're creating these walls, we're building our box, and everything in elder ministries have to do, gotta fit in that box. Well, then Joe Blow says, God's really leading me to do this or that. I was like, well, doesn't fit in the box. So then we're kind of stifling people because, well, you don't fit our mold of what we're trying to do, And I guess I've always, as part of the one of the sausage makers, I've always resisted that because I'm like, people will ask me, what's your five year plan? I'm like, follow Jesus? I I mean, what what if god sends you in a whole different direction in two years? That throws, we just wasted a whole bunch of money and a bunch of time and answered all these questions. We've got these groups together to have these conversations. That meant nothing. So I don't know, there's balance on there. But I think that's, to the individual level, is you have to always be

seeking Christ, you know, seeking his direction, seeking what is he calling you to do, and opening your eyes. He's speaking to us all the time, and we don't,

we're only looking for what fits in our box. Know? Well, that's not a mission, so I don't have to worry about that. So you just go on it. And maybe God wanted you to stop there, talk to that widow, or whatever. Know? Do you feel like that's like a biblical truth to stand on that's like God is always moving or speaking or like trying to do things. Trying is probably a bad like God is always Trying to get us to do things? Always doing things, right, and like asking us to follow him and like

the constant is He is doing that. That is true. Biblically true, God is doing things. The question is whether we are hearing them, whether we are doing them, whether we think they fit in our box or not. Because like if the if the if it's if it's a constant truth that that, like, you could always sit even in the darkest of your days and go, well, I know one thing's true. God is always trying to redeem and save and move in his world. That I know. Yeah. So if if I'm not understanding what he's doing or he's not asking me to be a part of it or I can't see what's going on here, like, then I have to rely back on that truth and go, how can I humble myself before him and say, I'm not hearing you? You're gonna have to help me figure this out. Yeah. I I look at it like God is gonna send someone to this Ethiopian eunuch, and he's we're just waiting for a Philip who will listen. So who knows how many people he said, go down to the desert. Go down to the desert. And no one was listening. They're like, well, I'm delivering eggs today, so I I really can't, and I'm doing this or I'm doing that. And Philip was like, oh, okay. I got that. Yeah. And he ran down there. That's probably a bad example, but I think that's what in our culture, in our world setting, that's probably what's going on. He's like waiting for the church who will do this, or the church who do that, the Christian who will talk to that person in the office and invite them to a study, bible study, or coffee or whatever.

And we're so caught up in what we think is God's will that we're not listening to what his actual will is, direction for us. Yeah. I don't, I So if I think about if I all the the situations

are is is what I'm sorting out in my mind. So, like, yes. Do we know God God's desire is that all people come to him? He uses his image bearers to otherwise be part of that work. Yes. I think that's right. Is it true that at every moment, every second of every day, God is specifically drawing me, as an example, into,

could be one of a million actions of which if I am not listening or pay attention, then I am not, that I'm missing out of and not contributing to. I don't know about that. I don't know the scripture, I don't, nothing strikes me scripturally that says that that's right. I'm not saying it can't be true, I don't know that it strikes me as right. And the risk in it is this, is if, that could feel very burdensome.

Like, it would be very difficult to rest, as an example, at all if I thought that at any given moment, God's got a thousand things that I am either too lazy, inept, or unclear to see, hear, or do. So I don't know about that. Yeah. Yeah. What if you what if you pulled the time restraint out of it? Like, what if you what if we like, that god has

god is continually inviting humanity to be part of the work that he's doing? Yes. You can agree to that. Yes. I think that's totally right. Right. And and and, like, there is some order to the way that God behaves. Right? So he's not gonna be like, listen to me at 05:00. I'm gonna have you get a plane ticket to San Francisco. And then you're not catching it by six, he's like, change my mind. Atlanta. You know I'm saying? Like Yeah. And so, like, without being legalistic, I guess, in the in the time frame. Yeah. Right? But having a more generalized thought that says, like, having a humble listening ear to the work that God is doing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I think the health

the the the faithfulness of following Jesus does not live and die in moments. I think it I think it's it's it's healthy, strong, or difficult on the fallible posturing of your heart,

which actually leads to humility, that's the core of Like the humbleness of your heart and the desire, a desire to do so, where those things are true, and practically extend, then I think the things will happen. I think that's right. I don't I don't know that I think that there are like moments.

Yeah. It's less about moments to me. I actually in fact, that's a that's a very human way to think about it. Humanity has to think in finite moments. Like the way the way the God God is God's willing to hold back this notion of Jesus himself for like six thousand years into the history of his people. And so like patience that he has and the importance of any given the most important thing that could ever happen, he doesn't go, Hey, heads up. It's gonna be Jesus. Just give it a couple thousand years. He doesn't do that quite. And so like, I think the precision of it seems less likely to me, like, and outside of my control, but the posturing of your heart,

which I think is what makes your question hard because it goes like, How do I follow Jesus? And like it's easy to find or to talk about like all kinds of behaviors that you might do. But at the end of the it's like

how do you follow Jesus? You affirm like there is something that is in you that goes, I believe He is who He says He is. And I remind myself of that so that I see the world as something that for him and not for me. And to the extent that that is true, a lot of the behaviors follow from it. It could be like maybe the maybe I could think about how I would explain this in a the closest thing we have as a human capacity or, like, a marriage relationship. Right? Like, if I were gonna just exchange follow with being relationship with, right, I will innately follow my wife from room to room if we're talking. Mhmm. So if my wife leaves, you know, the living room to go to the kitchen to cut a pizza or something, I will and we're talking about something, I will follow her in there because I'm relationship with her. I have a love relationship with her. Right? And so I'm gonna continue to go wherever she's going. She's not it's not the the metaphor breaks because she's not an authoritative spiritual king creator of the world. But, like, just

in regular thought that goes right? Like, if if I have a if I'm in a love relationship with my wife, then I will follow her around when we have things to discuss, or I will want to know what she has to say about things going on in my life and what's going on in hers and all the things. So ours is a little bit more reciprocal. But still at the end of the day, if someone asked, like, how do I follow Jesus?

Like, I think my first thought would be you need to be in relationship with him. Because, obviously, if you're not in relationship with him, you won't know where he's at anyway. You can't follow him if you don't know where he is, and you can't follow him if you don't know him. And, like, then we would start getting to actually some of our, like, banner spiritual discipline things. It was like, well, how do I be in a relationship with him? Well, you need to understand him, who he is, what he claims to be, you know, what he claims to be for your life and the people around you. That's found in scripture. Right? And you need to spend time in prayer, both, like, talking to him and allowing him to speak back into you if he's if if he's gonna do that. Right? Some things he does not speak to. And, like, in general, I think most people's disappointment in God, especially when it comes to prayer or, like, hearing his voice or, like, being able to follow him is they put is they, me, I put timetables on when I expect him his invitations to come, Right? Or the moments that I think he should have spoken into, which goes to Ben's point that like, if it's a minute by minute, then actually I'm controlling the timetable. Right? I'm basically telling the king of the world what to do and when he will answer me. You know? And like that's misunderstanding

his holiness and glory. Mhmm. And so I like, the reason it's hard to be in relationship with a god is because it it's he he's not understandable completely by humanity. The things that I think that I I've begged him to speak into that he hasn't, like, could cover the floor easily in 10 football fields. The things that he's spoken into that came out of nowhere, and I'm like, what the heck is this even about? That could follow do the same thing. You know? And so me me like, the predicated on that I understand him, I don't need to understand him completely to be in relationship with him. And I don't need to be able to pinpoint his actions or know everything about his ways not being mine, like to be in relationship with him. So I I I think, like, it's it's even more it's the same nebulous thing, but we can at least break it down as well. How do you be in relationship with anybody? You spend time with them. You get to know them. Right? Yeah. And so like you can't follow Jesus

if you are not in relationship with him because you won't even know where he is going. So that's a better question. And like, I don't know that there is an exact route. There are people that have been that are in an instant relationship with God because the realization of their sin and the mercy they have been given, it is like now. You are like, I will never go anywhere else. This is enough for me. Right? And then there is people that have maybe known about Him their whole life or grew up in church and it never And quite then all of a sudden, right, like it's always that Jesus comes to you. Right? And then all of a sudden you're like, I see him for everything that he said and everything that I've known. And all of a sudden, the presence of the Holy Spirit helps this make sense to me. And I want to know more, so I'm going to pursue like, continuing to try to follow him by being in a love relationship with him. Yeah. And I actually think, like,

if there's an encouragement in here, I actually think that volume thing becomes, like, how often thing the frequency is probably better, is to be careful that you don't put human expectations on it. So like one of the things I if you follow Jesus for any amount of time, you know, it probably sticks with you to go say like, My sheep will hear my voice. Mhmm. And then I think, Well crap, man. Like some people seem to be hearing this thing all the time.

And then maybe I don't. And there's something like, is it maybe I'm not following you. Maybe I think I am. Maybe I'm self deceived. I'm incapable of all kinds of things. But here's I was just in this moment, I was just thinking, like, I have heard his voice. Yeah. I did hear it. At least very like, distinctly at least a couple of times. And you're saying outside of scripture. Yeah. Like, you're just saying it in in some other circumstance. No. It doesn't that doesn't even have to be the booming thing. I'm just saying that, like, I was here's the thing. So, like, something happened. This is at least twice. Maybe even, like, three times. I would say I'm 40 how old am I? Forty forty years old? Forty forty years old. Three times. And I probably was just, like, pretty significant amounts of time in between these things. And I might be thinking, just looking at the examples of other people, their church cultures, primarily denominations and things who, feel like they're talking they're hearing stuff all the time. And I'm like, well crap. Maybe I'm maybe I'm not there. Maybe I believe the wrong thing.

In the part of my heart is not receptive to things that God would do that would make me uncomfortable. I don't think so, but I'm open. I was open to that. But it just occurs to me just now to go like, but I have heard that. And I did know it. And it was very clear. I had no doubts about it. I didn't think I made it. I know when I made something up, I come to that conclusion pretty quickly. But like I knew what it was and I felt and there was a direct there was a feeling kind of associated with it, and I did hear it. And I don't have to then reload on. This is maybe why there's a sensitivity to like

like see what God is doing and join in. Well, of course, he may be doing more general things. It doesn't have to be a hyper specific thing going on. Like Yeah. Again, like posture to Jesus, listen when he calls, and then mop go mop the floor, and then go to work, and then build the playset. Do your thing. Yeah. Go lay and so but now sometimes for some people, actually like these things are happening more often and sometimes we are actually not in tune. This was where it feels cultural to me is that like we are not actually in tune, not because God is doing like a very specific He is not like Jesus' train is leaving from Chicago today and I have to jump on it. It's that He is shaping

and forming my heart and eyes to see the world like him and I'm actually still insisting upon seeing it like me. And so I actually, I'm missing out on it, not because there was a specific thing, in general, this stuff should be changing and I'm still holding on to things that are my priorities and not his, and so I'm just flat out missing it. Yeah. Sometimes I think we can even try too hard because we're trying to get the big thing. I'm at the big assignment, the big whatever. God truly has a big message for me. And like the other day, a few weeks ago,

we we do some homeless stuff and go to camps, you know, do stuff. And a friend called me and said, hey. They're some tents at this camp auction. It might be is that something you could use? I said, sure. Why not? Yeah. I said, $100. Just just tell me get however many you can for a $100 for me. And and I mean, don't It wasn't a big thought. It wasn't big, god, you know, you must help me the chance. Know? I thought, okay. I got it. So I thought, okay. I got these now, and I'm not gonna just throw them over here randomly. Right? It's like, we'll just put them in the trailer, and we'll just have them ready. Yeah. And then I meet this guy named Shane, and we're talking, and he goes, hey, did you see in the news, you know, recently there was this fire out at the camps? The fire guys all came out and they were like, yeah, yeah. So, well, there was a bunch of propane tanks, they blew up. That was my tent. It goes, I'm 100% sure people were trying to kill me. Oh. Like, woah.

And he happens to be a dude that wears dresses. Right? Right. He he doesn't quite fit even in the homeless world. Yep. The the the acceptable look. And I'm like, okay. Tell you what. I will bring you a tent. You need a tent? Yeah. Inhale. I'll bring a tent next week. And I also had some stuff laying around the, like, fencing that that I'd saved because I thought I was gonna throw it away. I thought, well, I don't know. Shelters. You know, it could be somebody could use it. And they said, totally. Definitely take that. So I take that. And like, it was been two weeks ago now. Talk about, suddenly, like, we're like these friends. You know? Like, we sat down and talked, and I thought, okay. Never would have even approached him to talk other than he I just saw him at the distance. Like, there's a dude with the dress and the looking in the tote with women stuff. Yeah. And all of sudden, it's like, Shane, you're on my prayer list now. And and I don't know what god's gonna do with that. Maybe nothing. But I felt like there was god just kinda taking me a step at a time. Because honestly, when I had the conversation with him the week before, and they said I was gonna bring him stuff, I did not it surprised me when I saw him the next time. Wait, that's the dude with the dress. Like, I didn't see it that time. Yeah, yeah. Which makes me think God just kinda blinded my eyes a little bit, because I and you notice stuff like that. Yeah. And he always he's he's always bringing that stuff. Yeah. So I don't know. I I it was kinda convicting to me that he had to kind of

cloud my vision a little bit because I was probably keeping myself from something God wanted me to do. Yeah. And this time he kind of led me along gently, like, okay, you're slow. You'll catch on. I I don't like I said, I don't I don't know, but but I'm praying for for Shane now, and and we're gonna see him on Saturday. We'll we'll see I I can't wait to sit down and say, hey. Know? God could forgive you of every sin ever. Yeah. You know? And are you ready to go there? Yeah. You know? I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? That's the thing to think about too is, like, like,

you've you've probably heard his voice more than you think too. Right? That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Right? Like so so, like, even even when that scripture lives and breathes in your head and it you lose the exact wording and you don't remember the exact book that it was in or where it came from. Right? Yeah. But, like, someone comes into your life who is very hard to love. And like, it's a quick thought in your head that goes, I'm done with this. I'm not gonna keep this up. And then all of a sudden, like the Holy Spirit's in there going, yeah, we don't love that way. We love how Jesus loves. And, like, this is an ethereal thought that doesn't have a quick pen of scripture to it. Right? But you're like, Jesus loves more than that. And Jesus gets past, like, this person that is actively against you. And Jesus is like, yeah. You reflect my love into this world. I don't care who comes your way. And all of sudden, you find yourself actively trying to figure out how to love this person that refuses to be lovable. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And like, yes, you've heard God's voice because on your own, this is not something you would do. You would go, I'm done with this now. Like, no more. Yeah. I'll I'll help somebody else. And, honestly, it hit me as I was studying for a sermon where the the the sinner, as all we know her as, the sinner woman came in and was weeping and and and cleaning Jesus' feet and the alabaster jar and the whole thing. And every Simon, Pharisee, sitting there, and everybody's like, he knew who she was. Yeah. You know? And he looks at Simon. Actually, he's looking at her, and he says to Simon, do do you see this woman? And it just struck me. He didn't say everybody else called her a sinner. Yeah. It's like, she's a woman. Yep. Yeah. He said, woman, do you see do you see her? And I thought, wow. I I don't know if I've seen him. Because it was earlier that day that that I I I had seen him.

And I thank you God because I have not seen him. I've seen a dude in dress. I saw a sinner. Yeah. Whatever that was. Yeah. And it was a repentance thing moment for me of like, okay God, use me however you want because I wasn't open to that one. Right. I wasn't looking for it anyway. Yeah. And I yeah. So I think I think he does. He speaks to us all the time. Yeah. And and we don't always have a heart that will listen. Yeah. So like, if we were trying to put it in a way that is that is maybe more palatable, if you're just the type of folk that's like, I don't know what to do. Right? So what we're saying is is that your following of Jesus starts with being in a love relationship with Jesus. Right? That means actually spending time with him. And like, it's gonna feel like a spiritual discipline or a check mark to read your Bible if you're not used to it or you're like, but like, this is how you get to know him and his character. And the things that the Holy Spirit wrote down in this book that said, hey, this is worth holding on to for the ages.

It's okay if those just swim around in your brain until the Holy Spirit needs to use them. And so when it comes back up or character of God things come back up in situations in your life, it doesn't have to be this booming voice, but you know that you've heard the creator of the universe because he spoke to you through scripture and he spoke to you through prayer. And sometimes it will be a very side quest y, like targeted approach where he's like, I need your attention in this way, and it's time sensitive. We're doing this right now. Right? Or it's it will be an as you go, remember the principles of what it looks like to be Jesus and what the example that he set on this earth, which is why we spend a lot of time in the gospels. Like, we're trying to learn. He's trying to turn us into him. That is his goal. He making disciples by the way that he lived and we compare ourselves to go, Oh,

his heart is this way, our heart needs to stretch that way. It is not going to just instantly be there. It needs to learn to stretch that way, which means it is not an instant thing for us either. So following Jesus starts with being in a relationship with Jesus. And if you want to be able to discern through some of the nuance things or be part of some of the things, people around you are like, feel like God is dragging you. And you're like, I don't feel like God asked me to do anything. The the the question is is are we willing to just step back and rehumble ourselves before the Lord and go, I'm gonna stop making assumptions all the time. I'm gonna take in your word, and I'm gonna be open to the fact that, like, sometimes you're gonna tug my heart in a way. Like, this this sometimes I will second guess the thing. I got a phone call from somebody today, and I'm like, lord, what are you trying to teach me with this person? Because they're driving me nuts. Right? And I'm like, I've got to figure out what you need to show me and what this relationship looks like because my instant reaction is sinful, and I don't like it. And I know you want it, but I don't know how to change it. Right? And like, he did some really cool stuff through that interaction and through some other things he did today, you know, that just reminded me that like,

I am in a love relationship with him. I took that. I will take things right up to him, even if they're slightly complainty. Like, hey, why is this continue? Are you trying to show me something that I'm so daft and missing? Because the the the humble point goes, whatever this is, it's not about my glory. So if it ain't about mine, it's gotta be about his. So what's happening right now? Do I need to be paying better attention to whatever you're trying to do even if it's a simple interaction with a tent or a simple phone call or a simple person that is just hard to hard for you to humanly love, but God goes, yeah, my reflection could cover all that. Let's do that. You know? Yeah. So I'd like without without letting it be this crazy, unattainable, like, there's prophets and not, and you feel like you're the not. Right? Like, we're misunderstanding prophets. Right? Like, they're usually pointing stuff out to people. They're god's messengers for things or, like, they're giving god's words to the people. And like he can give God's words to you

through the scripture, through community, through prayer, through revelation of some kinds. There's a sliding scale of which we need to vet some of these things out. They don't all carry equal weight all the time because your feelings are fickle and might get up in there somewhere. Right? But, like, you'll know that by reading scripture. Right. You will understand that. Yeah. So our tendency is to just repeat things that we've did. Okay. That's God wants me to always do. Like, god is not calling me to a ministry to trans homeless dudes to always have a tent in my back seat, but maybe he's calling us, like we've said before, to have a $5 bill in our pocket to for who knows? Yeah. You you know, and to be open to that. Yeah.

And and to be available for however the spirit leads us and and receptive. And like like, just from personal experience in this room, you so wanna be part of this. Yeah. It is the coolest thing to be a part of when God is doing something or inviting you into something or allowing you to see past your own self or even revealing in a thing. Like, Dan ain't no spring chicken. Jesus been working on this man for years and still to the to to yesterday. Right? He's like, Daniel, I need you to see this thing. You know what I'm saying? And, like, what an awesome relationship to be a part of Yeah. That God's like, I just wanna keep showing you more of me. And you're like, had I no idea this was even a thing for me. Right. This is awesome. You know? Like, it's it's just so cool to be a part of, and you will never regret,

like, when you when the Holy Spirit starts moving in you or God starts showing you a thing to be a part of. Anytime that God's like, join me in a thing, boy, you wanna be a part of that. It's life changing. Yeah. Hey, you're listening to life from the path. So I I guess does this does this then extend into that kind of into the spiritual disciplines conversation? Yeah. I think like the basic question about spiritual disciplines that we were hashing through is like, does

a love relationship with Jesus produce you wanting to do spiritual disciplines? Or is spiritual disciplines, like, is the output that you will have a love relationship with Jesus? Right? But maybe the the question is it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah. The reason spiritual disciplines usually fail for people is because they set an expectation on it. And the expectation is way more pointed than I want to be in a relationship with Jesus. Yes. Actually, that's a great point. Yeah. Because it's it's it gets to the same thing that was the problem with the culture,

which is like, there's a thing you do that is the relationship with Jesus part, and then there's the thing, all the other things, which is like, what do I get? How do I control this? How do I pull the lever so that it has an outcome that I wanted? Even if the outcomes are totally awesome outcomes. Heal this dude. Fair enough. But like, it's almost an attempt to control or otherwise

manipulate or use that relationship to further an end that may or may not like the ends aren't your control. They're just not. And even even when you're doing righteous means, God still is responsible for the end of the thing. And like oftentimes our attempt

I just I know I know we think about the way we primarily think about God's responses is His changing of some sort of event or earthly situation. And I just think of how many billions

of prayers have been said for like, God, I want you to modify this event or stop this thing from happening or start this thing to happening, and how the vast majority of those God did not answer in the way that the human asked. For sure. It's I mean, like,

it's gotta be most even my own record of things, like vast majority. Heavy, heavy majority. Like, he didn't do the thing that I asked or that I and it doesn't mean I don't even care. It's fine that you asked for. The conversation bit. But like the part where we get odd is we're like, God, I've been praying consistently for four months. Why aren't you doing this thing that I want done?

Right? Like, and it doesn't it doesn't are not God is not a genie when you asked him the first time. He remains not a genie when you asked him the seven hundredth time even though Jesus tells like he likes to persist and widow. Yes, yes he does. But like it also

I guess that goes back to the thing where like careful because you will read the thing to accomplish. Even even your end, even the thing that Jesus does, even the thing the Spirit does or that God does can still be the thing that's your end because

you weren't joining God and doing a thing like you wanted it and then you had an expectation that God would do or do not cause a thing to happen. And so I think that's one of the risks and not the discipline itself, but how you think about it. Like are you approaching it to say, look, if I remain disciplined, God owes me a thing.

Or even even the something that isn't so, like, is is more of a problematic for you to think about, which is like, God, I've been I've been trying to be disciplined. Why isn't this thing changing? Is it because you're either not real or you don't listen to me? Like things that were like that should be thought of as unmerited and undeserved,

like at its notion that the very nature of your relationship with Jesus is unmerited and unearned. And so I don't know what like there's you shouldn't approach things like prayer and Bible study and things like that as if they are then once we got you on this side of heaven, now we are still going go start counting merit and favor. Like it's not that either. Like you are holy. You are holy and beloved.

And so as holy and beloved, like that's before any of you trying to justify yourselves even with the discipline. So the disciplines are really just ways the way that I think about it is like it's codifying ways to talk about stuff that I want to do. They are again, intense of your heart. I know it seems fluffy, but like I just I think you're largely like flourishing off through all my fallibilities. Here's what I intend to be true.

And to my greatest ability, I will do that. And with those intents, God will work the 10x and 100x of things that are going on there. And you will you will, in humility, even the notion of saying this is this these are my in my intents is it recognizes of the that that frailty about you. There's a humility in it that's even positive. So anyway, I actually think it to your point, I think it doesn't matter. So I think depending on who what your personality is, you are more likely to see one of those things one way or the other. But I think the whole point would be to say,

you're not trading any of it for something that God is willing to otherwise give you as a gift or give to the world as a gift. That's not what they're there for. Yeah, I think that like, if I had the two things I thought about while you were talking was was one, sometimes we're like, I've been praying for four months, and you haven't answered my prayer. And, like, God's actual answer is, I definitely have. Like, it's not come to fruition yet. I've like, I heard your prayers, and I have moved things, but you expected that this was gonna like, when the thing finally solves

or or redeems in eight years, you're gonna remember that one day and go, god answered my prayer today. Nah. God answered your prayer years ago. Right? He was moving this thing the whole time and, like, you didn't see it. So you call the ball and strike on a time frame reference that god doesn't have. God is not boxed in by time. We are. He is not. You know? And so, like, there's point one. And number two was, for some reason I thought this is a dumb example. Let's say you really like Bon Jovi. You thought he was freaking awesome. Right? Yeah. Do you wanna be Bon Jovi's friend or do you want an autograph? Right? And like, that's the relationship you're posturing towards. Like, do you wanna be in relationship with Bon Jovi because he's awesome? And you wanna hang around him all the time and see what he does? Or do you just wanted to get him to sign something and then and then tuck tail and go, here's the thing I wanted from you. You know? And so like, there's a a real difference in approaching Bon Jovi for a one time quick hitter or hey, man. How's your family? You know? What's are you really actually cool, or are you, like, actually a secret turd? I have no idea. Yeah. That is a weird example. Well, I was just trying to think like Is Bon Jovi a turn? Overall,

I I think it's it's it's odd that, like, you you show up to the Lord's doorstep expecting something, right, instead of expecting his friendship. Expecting him. Instead of expecting him. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Right? You're like, I expect results. And, you know, and if you if you take on a spiritual discipline Dan told a story about a guy he knew, I don't know, some years back where he's like, he went on some kind of thirty day out in the woods. Like, he's like, and I'm gonna go out there, and I'm not gonna I'm gonna be all by myself, and I'm gonna live out in these woods and fast or whatever until I hear from God. And the thirty days passed, and no, God did not speak to this man at all. You know? And it's like, I would have thought ten years ago, I'd have thought that's a bold move and a good way to connect with the Lord. Right? But, like, at the end of the day, if his heart posture didn't change to where you thought you were gonna force god's hand to do what you said, that thirty days meant nothing.

Right? If you were gonna use that thirty days to humble yourself, right, maybe god would give that gift because he's a good, loving father. But maybe he's like, you came out here to bully me for thirty days? Yeah. I will not be participating. Actually, that that made me think about, like so my my son is seven years old, I think. I I usually, the other kids remind me how old he is. But, like, let's just say he's seven for the purpose. And let let let's say he did the same. He lives at my house, and then he goes, I'm gonna go out to the back of the property and camp there for thirty days until I hear from dad. And, like, yeah, I would be sitting there going, I don't know. He's really committed. Should I go say a thing to him? I don't know. But then you're like, You live with me. Like, what are we doing? Like, why are we doing this thing? And

is boy, I just, I hate that we would this is why the discipline word gets me, is that like, even the how you're thinking about them probably, they're disoriented wrong. Yeah. They're they're spirit I can't say spiritual gifts because we mean something else like that. But like all we're talking about like, here's a pattern of living that keeps you intersecting intersecting and and engaged engaged in intentionality

with the king of the universe. Yeah. You should do that. Yeah. It's not intended to be a transactional thing. Yeah. I do this, so then therefore you will do that. Yeah. It's like, no. It's just part of our what we do. Well, but actually, we don't even sell human discipline this way. You have human discipline so you can get something out of I exercise so I can lose weight, not because I the joy of going, hey. I know this is good for me. I don't care. Yeah. Want I want an outcome. And and but, it's way more ethereal ethereal is the wrong word. It's way more it's way deeper than that. Yeah. Right? You are but sometimes there's days that I do not wanna engage in anything that God is offering me. I don't actually wanna I just I'm stubborn and proud, I don't wanna talk to him today, and I don't wanna sit down and read this Bible. I'm in the chronicles, and I'm like, I feel like I just read this in Kings. I don't wanna go through this again. You know? And I'm just kinda huffy about the whole thing. But I thought even on my worst days, God has given me enough wisdom to go,

I would rather give this twenty five minutes to him than whatever the heck else I was gonna do with that twenty five minutes. So like, whatever. I'm gonna sit down and even with a cold heart and not looking to hear from the holy spirit, not wanting to hear God's opinion on my life at the moment, but I am gonna read this bible because even if I know my heart can't be trusted that day, I have enough wisdom given to me by God that says this twenty five minutes is better served doing this, so I'm gonna do it. And like, I think that's just part of the human experience. Like you can lie and act like you done getting bombarded by the holy spirit every time you crack open the dudes, but I don't see it, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes the sheer discipline is the only offer I have for him because my heart's not in the place it needs to be, and I don't even wanna talk to him about repenting about it yet because he's not done doing the work there either. Yeah. But I will sit down and read that scripture because that's what I have on offer. Yeah. Okay. Alright. You're listening to Life From The Path. Maybe you got feedback for us on that. You can hit up on the Life From The Path complaint line. (515) 517-0085. Call

or text. That's the Bob Eisenhower Life From The Path complaint line. We'd we'd love to hear from you. Alright. I'm gonna give this to I'm gonna try to keep this short. But like, the the great irony when it comes to some of the things that hit levels of contention within the the scriptures, specifically from Paul when it comes to marriage, is like the very foundation of the critique that most people make at Paul is even able to be lodged based upon a modern perception of marriage, which is largely

got to it where it is because of the things that Paul specifically wrote. So like like this notion of some level of I I whatever, people within different camps within Christianity tussle with whether people have unique roles like by gender or not. Fine. I think you can keep having healthy discussions in this area. But this notion of a somewhat act like of an equitable relationship, like serving and submission and dying for and respecting, Like, this is not remotely

true in Paul's day. This is like, that's the thing he said. The thing he said is largely what we have today. And on the basis of what we have today, people are looking back at Paul and going, You misogynist joker.

But like you the very notion of what you think often think what a what a good healthy balance of a relationship looks like, and we accuse Paul of violating, the premise that we're based upon is the thing that he largely prescribed and probably would not be true in our society. This goes to the thing we started with which is like there's a lot of things that are like, hey, this isn't Christian, but like it was very much shaped like Christianity was. Christianity is largely the driver for the amount of we talked about this before, like,

colleges, orphanages, asylums Hospitals. Play hospitals, place for the aged and the physically unable or whatever. Like, all these are these are Christian ideas. Now, do states and cities and counties now run some of these things?

Yes. Prior to Christianity, it's not happening. Like, are I mean, it's not completely gone, But like, this widespread notion of what this looks like and how to think about and treat people, like this worth and dignity business, these are Christian, predominantly Christian ideas. Same thing with even treating even treating children. This is in the same section of Colossians. Like Paul turns to the children and talks to them. Mhmm. You know who did that? Nobody. Nobody. Absolutely nobody. Yeah. For sure. And he he thinks the wife has agency and accountability for her behavior. He thinks the children have agency and accountability for the behavior. He thinks the slaves, the debt slaves have agency

and accountability for the behavior. In that in his time, this is not true for any of these people. Everything pointed at the dude, which like, you gotta take your understanding of these dudes with a little bit of gray. Like, everything did actually fall on this man. He could have a 100 people working at his place and 30 children, and they could be up to age 50 or something. And their behavior, every bit of it still reflects back on this dude. And so he's carrying a weight. I think it's it's imbalanced on the dignity and worth of his descendants for sure. But, like, be careful about or at least more nuanced than how you talk about it. So, anyway, the broad point was to say, I there there's a lot more interesting conversation to have around how Paul talks about marriage. I'm just saying our most modern critiques about Paul's view on marriage are coming from a perch that was built upon the very thing that he said and would not be true likely had he not said what he said. The very things that we're critiquing him on are the things that provided you the marriage you have today to critique him about. And so I find that very ironic and very interesting, and I just think he's got a bad rap on this. I think there's things that are difficult about some of the things he wrote still,

and they're challenging in our modern view, and I think it's fine to have healthy conversations about them. I'm gonna say read him right. And I and I think you just gotta be careful about how you how you're reacting to some of that because you will throw out baby with bathwater, and there's some very empowering and interesting things going on there, both from Jesus and Paul that I think people try to chuck, and I think they lose a depth lot there by doing so. And it's actually the Jesus people that are looking through that bathwater you threw out to see if there might be a baby in there. That's right. They're saying it. Them up. Go grab them. Look at that. And we'll grab them. Alright. Alright. Dear life from the path. While I love visiting my son, daughter-in-law,

and grandchildren, I'm uncomfortable because their home is so untidy. Oh. I have offered many times to help with the laundry, dishes, picking up toys, and even cleaning. They always say no. They say it's their home, and I'm not there to do chores. They know I enjoy cleaning and organizing, and that gives me a sense of calmness. I try to look past the clutter, dirty dishes, and food particles left on the floor and to enjoy spending time and playing with my grandchildren. K. But it's getting harder to block out the mess each time I visit. They live several hours away, so I usually spend a night or two while visiting. For them to visit me is difficult due to their schedules. How can I tell them how much visiting them under these conditions increases my anxiety without offending them? I I is it squalor? That doesn't sound like squalor.

Particles of food, not whole whole things of food. Yeah. I've seen some miss. I don't think this sounds like miss. This sounds like disorganized, I got little kids mess. Yeah. We think she's a little bit persnickety? I think she's Martha. Yeah. I think she cleans her baseboards. Yeah. We need to clean this up. Wipes them down once Who cares? Jesus is here. I got something to do. Yeah. Okay. I don't here's the thing. I don't understand humans.

I don't under I don't understand human beings. This woman likes to clean. It makes her happy. Why you just let her do it? She's like, hey. I get I like to come here, and I like to help help pick up. Now I get They might give her a list or something. Yeah. Just something you wanna stay away from. I think this falls under Ben's classic example of wife sees sock on the floor. Man doesn't see sock on the floor. Yeah. There's some people that just don't. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they walk into a big cluttered mess of a disorganized room, and they see nothing. Yeah. They're just like, there's a path for me from here to there. And and, like, it doesn't move their soul an inch. And some people, all it does is rile them up Yeah. And give them a bunch of unsettledness about it. Right. And so, like, to to Ben's point, I guess, like, what would be weird is is if you put it in a different category that says, I like my house the way it is. And then someone comes in and goes, this wall should be pink. I'm gonna paint it pink to my liking. You're like, I don't want it pink. I like it just how it sits. They're like, I will do all the work. I will pay for the paint. I'm like, I don't give a crap. I don't I don't want you rooting around in my house painting in different colors. Like, it's it's probably a little bit of a broad brush, but I think the people you're talking about, like either they have young kids and like your house is just a mess for fifteen years or they just don't see it. It doesn't bother them. It's the same folks that'll let their grass get to be four feet tall. And you're like, I can't drive that, but I just want to go mow it. I just want to mow it. I just wanna mow it. And they're like, I don't know. It's not bothering many. You're like, it's it doesn't even raise their soul an inch. Yeah. Yeah. So I think if if you could be gracious in this situation and go, this is a me thing. I'm just gonna go to I'll clean the room I'm staying in. Just tidy up a little bit, make myself feel better. You know? I I think I think they're thinking mom has come to visit, and we want our children to know their grandmother, and they don't need to watch her clean. They just need to hang out with her. Yeah. I I don't yeah. They're not worried about the the what's clean and what's not. They're they just wanna spend time together. Yeah. Their priority is the relationship and the fun times with with Memaw. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who are you dealing with here? Like, okay. Can Memaw take the kids? Say, hey. Let's go hop on let's go clean the kitchen real quick. It'd be twenty minutes. That sounds real fun for kids. Some great lessons in there. I'm just like, I I bet there's ways to do this. If it's like if they're feeling offended because someone's saying their house is like, I don't like this either. And Mike's example is is a salient one. Like,

I won't notice a thing. In fact, this happens, I mean, 10 out of 10. My wife's out for some reason, and and I'm like, dude, we gotta make sure this place is picked up before she gets here. Yeah. Pick it up, and we're like, got it. Nailed it. This looks good. She couldn't be more disappointed. I'm like, how could we be so wrong all the time? Yeah. We're so bad at this. And I look I I legitimately looked around and went, I think this looks pretty good. And I I was I'm flabbergasted. But but here's the deal. I'm not I'm not just flabbergasted, and I don't think to myself, Dang. I wish we would have gotten better for what her expectations were because I've been married to this woman for twenty plus years. Like I I I understand her expectations better, I think, than I'm acting like. I'm offended that now our effort did not meet the expectations that I was hoping for. And now what was meant to be a service is some sort of argument. And like so if there's any of that going on in there, you know how you fixed that. Like, you just you gotta pull yourself out of it a little bit and go, look, if it was for her, now you're just butt hurt because she wasn't impressed. Yeah. If it's for her and you know she's persnickety, then do persnickety things, and then you'll know that we don't have this problem. And so the point is is that like I

think there's probably ways to, like, gently try to rein this the visiting mama in. But also, like, if this is just her and she enjoys it and, you know, if if within if if she says this, you look around and go, yeah, I guess. Mean, it doesn't bother me. That's not the same thing as it not being true. It just doesn't bother you. Then, like, whatever she likes, I just let her do it. Like, oh, you shouldn't have to clean my house. Well, she doesn't she doesn't have to. She wants to. And it might be a little unhealthy, but I you're not her therapist. I think the problem is is, like like the mom will clean the house and be like, see, isn't this better? You're like, I don't know. That's the okay. So the expectations on the other side are also the problem. Also a thing that happens at my house is like, see, isn't this better? No. I don't think so. It's about the same to me, to be honest with you. Yeah. I I feel the same amount of no anxiety that I did before. In fact, now I feel like I gotta keep up this Taj Mahal. Yeah. I don't wanna be part of something like this. Yeah. It's it's actually that's a great point. It is a humility on either side, and the default doesn't go to the most pristine person. Mhmm. The

person who's the hyper cleaner should go, woah, shouldn't we just default to being as clean as possible? I don't know. I don't know why you think that. No. Right. Right. Humility. It requires humility on both sides. Yeah. I I you gotta like, that love language's principle is actually a pretty good one in almost all relationships. Right? Like, you have to figure out how other people feel love Yeah. If the intention is to show them love. If the intention is just to be right, then you're gonna have a difference of opinion, and they're gonna end up at a stalemate at some point. But, like, if you know, like, especially, like, son, you know that your mom is a particular person and she does like cleanliness. I mean, take a couple hours and shine the place a little bit. Or when she wipes the counter down, don't evil eye her. Just let her do it. You know? You don't be like, you know, that stuff bothers her. But from the mom's perspective, like, if if the cleanliness thing is it's the not height of their priority, they got a bunch of other stuff in their mind, they're busy folks. And they

just wanna come home and be and not feel like there's more work to do. I mean, don't create a burden on them that makes them feel less than just because you showed up and now the whole place is not good enough. And so like there's there's learning to love and be in a relationship with somebody that both of y'all could give. And I think you could probably find somewhere to be in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, like careful, don't feel guilty To Mike's point, like some people wanna serve you, and like just don't feel guilty about that. Like if you don't literally care, and this person really likes to clean, I think my wife would have a fit at a situation like this, where I would go, I don't know. I mean, I don't feel bad about it because I was fine before. Right. Right. Right. We we solved that in ways when our kids were young where we would just say, hey. Let's just go out to eat. Then that way no one's cooking. No one's dirtying dishes. No one's cleaning dishes, and we could just spend our time talking. They may go home and do clean if you want, but Yeah. But at least we had a certain amount of time where we were just it's just us, and people are serving us, and so you had that base point. It kinda makes everybody happy, I guess. Mhmm. Yeah. They come home and clean the toys up if they want when they come home. But Okay. Secular says,

instead of trying to do everything when you visit, how about choosing one thing and doing it? If you do, it may calm your anxieties and still allow plenty of time to devote to your grandchildren. However, if this doesn't do the trick, you may have to cut back on the time you spend in your son and daughter in law's house or stay in a hotel while you're there. Yeah. I mean, is this woman like this everywhere? Every everybody's houses? I don't know. Maybe. Think that secular will always go do what's best for you. Yeah. And the thing is is what's best for you is to learn how to love other people well. Yeah. And so, like like, we just have a humility problem. You know what I'm saying? How I feel about it is the definitely the way it should be felt about. And, yeah, I don't know about that. I don't think that's true. Yeah. She's sticking. This isn't how I raised you. What's wrong with you? Yeah. Like clean your house. And you're right. There is there is a parent and child stuff in there, you know, that, like you know, especially if, like, when your parents comes over and start judging your place and, like, this is I taught you to do better than this because now it's a reflection on me that your place is a dump. And now now you've got twenty years worth of feelings in there when, really, you could have just played with the kids and watched Bluey. Exactly. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Actually I don't care. Like, I've heard a lot of parents like, hey. I didn't raise you to do this. I'm like, obviously, you did. Look. They're doing it right now. Look at that. Yeah. Your perception of how you raised them, I think, may be a little inflated.

I hope that's not true. Here we go. Saying. Dear life from the path, my sister recently traveled across the country to visit my husband and me. We had a pleasant time together, but at our dinner party on her last night, she decided that my husband was not merely snubbing her but had instructed other guests to snub her as well, to ignore her conversation and look away when she spoke. Live from the Path, nothing like this happened. When he went to embrace her as she was leaving the next morning, she literally stiff armed him. So so then sent him a string of hateful texts from the airport. When she asked me later on the telephone what she had done to make him treat her so badly, I told her that her version of events had not happened. She responded by sending me an article about men gaslighting women. Is there any way to make her see the truth? Oh, wow. Oh, boy. That's real tricky. I mean I don't know if we know the truth. Yeah. You should rephrase. Is there any way to get to the bottom of the truth? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I will I will say that these Internet psychology words

do make life pretty difficult because there are enough of these concepts going around that like you cannot convince someone of a thing. Like if they insist on being aggrieved and deceived, they will be. Even if neither of those two things were true. Right? Like, hi, here's my version of events. No, that's not what happened. Here's what actually happened. You're gaslighting me. No. No. This is what actually occurred. You're not validating my feelings, and you're changing the reality that I otherwise had grown accustomed to even though it's completely false. And like, that's what I'm saying is this. So like there's a there's enough the problem with the words is that it validates concepts that people don't understand and misuse

to otherwise justify whatever they are thinking and feeling at the moment. And there is almost nothing you can do to convince them out of it. Because because the word because the concepts like gaslighting allow them to go, yeah, that's exactly what I thought you would do. Yeah. Yeah. But once again, like, it's a it's a lack of humility. Do you know how many situations I've remembered completely wrong? I could have sworn I've done something and I'm like, or I said this, or this was said to me. And people will be like, dude, I I am almost certain I didn't say that. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. My first thought is always, I'm probably remembering this wrong because I fashioned a version of events that justified me at the time. And then I gleaned off the top and thought, these are the things I'm gonna hold on to for ammo later. Turns out, I completely misunderstood the whole thing. Yeah. Or my wife did totally say something, and I'm like, yeah. Yeah. And then it turns out, I'm like, I don't remember anybody saying anything like that. She's like, you were literally standing in the kitchen when we talked about you doing this. I'm like, boy, I don't know. That sounds like something I do for sure. Maybe I just forgot. Okay. I'm gonna fix this right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, a a lack of humility,

like, has the word gaslight in as if it's a strong possibility. But, like, a real humility goes, I probably took it in wrong. Yeah. I could have been wrong here for sure. Let's rehash it. Yeah. Or like so let's let's say you're completely you say you're completely right. Like, and they're completely wrong. What are we gonna do about that? Like, right, you could either tussle over it or you go, look, whatever it was, it doesn't felt feel like we understood each other correctly. Let me restate it now and let's try it again. That's a viable option. Yeah. I'm really sorry. I somehow offended you. I will make sure I don't do that next time. Yeah. And if I did say that, like, that was wrong. And, like, I don't have any good excuse for myself on why I acted that way, but, like, I'm sorry. I don't feel that way about you. Like, holistically, I this is not the way I view you. And so if I gave that impression and whether I remember it or not, it doesn't actually matter. If you walked away feeling like I I felt that way about you, I'm telling you right now, that's not true. Yeah. I felt like I I maybe it's just because I'm getting older or whatever, but like, I just I don't find much value in trying to recollect or repaint a history of a thing. Like whatever it is, whatever the point of aggrievement is, let's just start it over then. Restate

it to me in like the most, whatever the best terms are. And then I'll try to respond to that. But like, we just burn, this happens in my house, we just burn so much, so much time, so much time on, well, this is what you said, and this is how you said it. I'm like, I don't, yeah, we should just skip all this really and just figure out like what's at the end of the day, what's the big rub? The big rub is I'm offended because I think you disrespected me or don't appreciate me for a thing. Okay, great. Let's start. Let's do that. But like this replaying of all that stuff, I just it doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah. I think we might as well just skip it. Yeah. Like a good a good way to think about this if you're a strategic type person is be like, find the place that you can agree. Like, they're like, you treated me bad at this party. You told everyone to hate me and blah blah blah blah blah. And, like, if you have to go six layers and go up and go, Sarah, listen. Like, I love you. Like, that's just true. And so if I did any of these things that you're saying, I can promise you it wasn't intentional. And even if I had lost my better judgment for that night, that is not holistically how I feel about you. So let's start at the very top and go,

you wanna paint like the night or the two as if it's my whole attitude. And I'm telling you it's not. I know me better than you know me, and I'm telling you I don't feel that way about you. So whatever I did to feed into that, my bad. You know? Yeah. The sad reality is he probably wasn't even thinking of her. At all? Yeah. At all. He he was thinking about, well, there's fisher biting right now and whatever his thing is. Real Pauline kinda man. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

No. Hold on. Okay. Here we go. So Secular says, your sister appears to have had a break from reality during that dinner party. Could it have been alcohol related? If what happened wasn't alcohol related, it might be a symptom of mental or physical health problem. If there are family members living with her or close by, they should be informed about what happened. She may need to see a medical professional. Wow. I I do it's interesting. I I guess suppose I wouldn't put this in the category of, like, significant mental health problems, but I do think a significant number of people suffer from deflection.

They suffer from they cannot reckon with the reality of which they are responsible for what's going on in front of them. And so then they start making up all bunch of realities around them or like reading into it. Right? So the what what's the most what's Occam's razor? What's the most likely explanation of you having interesting or weird interactions with multiple people at this party? Is that you're not easy to talk to or or come across as difficult or people don't know who you are. And so they're not overly friendly. All these seem kind of reasonable to me. Way more reasonable than the conspiratorial,

the, you know, brother-in-law at this point, I guess, like, is like, set everybody up to do this. Like, why would they even participate? Who puts together this cabal of people who don't wanna talk to somebody at a party? Dude, and how do you convince that many people to do it? Most people feel awkward, stiff arming people or or, like, being dismissive. They're like, I'm not doing that. That's so awkward, dude. And, like, a part as part of a what? A ruse? A jest? You know, even in jest, if someone came up and, hey. Like, when my cousin comes in here, be super rude to him. I'm like, I'm not doing that. No. No. I don't want anything to do with this. This sounds direction. Yeah. Or actually, one of the takeaways is, like, if that is what happened, these people have extraordinary friends.

True. Like, their level of commitment in this friendship is Yeah. Is endearing. I here's the thing though. It's like, not to add to the mental or health, like, possible discussion, but, like, there is a line that goes, look. If if you know that your husband did not act this way and your sister is taking it completely wrong. Right? And either it's a health mental problem that she's making it up or she's just causes trouble. Like, the thing that that, like, I tend to like, my line is is like, you can bring all kinds of trouble to me, but you're not gonna do it in my house. This is my place of peace where Jesus runs things and, like, you won't come in here and, like, cause purpose wreckage

inside these walls. And so if that is the story of the sister, then you probably aren't coming to visit anymore. I'll put you up in a hotel. I could still be very generous to you, but you are not gonna come in this house and create like a a chasm between me and my husband. Right? That didn't happen. Yeah. That's that I'm not going to allow. So I feel like it's there's a thing that you need to figure out, and you know your husband. Does he get a little bit tuned up on the bush lights and start acting like a turd? If he does, then, like, hey. You need to apologize to my sister. Are you married to Bon Jovi? So rude. Right? Are you married to Bon Jovi? But, like, I I mean, you would know the two people that you're talking about better than anyone would know. And if either one of them have a tendency to do x or whatever, you know what I'm saying, get to the bottom of the thing and, you know, just figure out what's actually happened. You should be able to discern between these two parties.

Yeah. Agreed. Alright. You've been listening to live from the Path live streaming on the YouTube? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Also available on Spotify, Amazon, a podcast. You can get us on Apple Podcast. I'm pretty sure there's podcast burner, podcast feeder. Probably 17 different ways you can take this show in. We're a big deal in the in the Asian countries right now. Bangladesh.

Dude, we're moving to the Bangladesh? Yeah. I don't We'll have to do a tour over there. Yeah. Alright. You're listening to life the path. Let's see. You can go to lifefromthepath.org. Nobody goes to lifefromthepath.org,

but you can if you want to. You can go ahead and hit that up. We've made saying you can visit our warehouse. Yeah. You know, we don't have a forward facing counter for customer there, but we do store all the shows there. Yeah. It's like a closet. Yeah. No one actually visits, but we do have to have warehouse space to keep all these megabytes worth of podcast there. Yeah. Hey. Okay. You can check that out. Anyway, go do that. Enjoy your time. In the meantime, be faithful in means. God will handle the ends. You've been listening to live